2011 Video Summary

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Starting the month of May off with a bit of a video summary of http://www.180degreehealth.com/to date… Coming up later this week we’ll hear a very interesting guest post from long-time follower Brock Cusick, which I browsed through this morning. Great stuff. As far as a preview for the upcoming month, I was thinking of really discussing the work of Ray Peat in the month of May in great detail – calling it “Ray May” or something queer like that.

Let me know if anyone is interested in that or if you’d rather me just let people explore Ray’s work on their own without a translator. Anyway, enjoy the video summary over your favorite snack (and the sweet Julia Child quote on a t-shirt my sister gave me recently… thanks sis!)…


  1. Ray May-yes! I think your ability to translate concepts into something easy to wrap my head around is one of your highest strengths. So yeah- please do, my main man Matt.

    Watching these videos now- good stuff man. Appreciate getting more of the complete communication coming through with voice inflection, facial expression, etc. More comments later, I suspect.

    All the best, amigo.

  2. Yeah, I'd love it if you could translate Ray Peat's info.


  3. Yes Matt, I agree with Rob – the Ray May thing would be great.

  4. Ray May is so gay! And I love it. a lot.
    Love you too fuzzy head Mattie.

  5. I'm totally down with a Ray May. And I agree with Rob about your strength in summarizing shtuff.

    Gosh, speaking of Peat, what in Peat's name happened to Harper and chlOe (former commentors)?

  6. Yes, please do dive in deeper into Ray Peat's work. Especially, more detailed work on sugar, organic dry fruit and ice cream.

    Thank for all the good work.


  7. Ray May, Ray May!

  8. Yes, please, please, please, do a Ray May so those of us who still need to take Nutrition 101 (or 180 Degree 101 or getting Stoned 101) can maybe figure this stuff out if you put it in nice, friendly, understandable terms (with the reassuring words "Don't Panic" on top like on the Hitchhikers's Guide to the Galaxy).

    It will be a sh%t storm of comments and controversy but that just means we're in learning-mode, right?

  9. Matt, I'm sure your longer time readers etc. probably know. But, how old are you round abouts?

  10. CarbSane,

    In the Weight Loss vid, I think, Matt says he is 33.

  11. yes please on the ray peat! looking forward to that!

  12. Looking forward to May! Curious why glutamic acid becomes neurotoxic? I do believe this happens in my brain.

    Eating anything with "free glutamic acid" is problematic.

  13. Watched 'em- good videos. I can definitely appreciate your emphasis on finding meaning in life and engaging in activities that promote continued growth and development and regeneration.

    And definitely second that comment that we each have our own imbalances that our intuition ma be attempting to re-balance. When I was a kid, I just naturally didn't eat much meat, mostly chicken. Then I became 'health-conscious' and started eating meat at most meals. Then vegan for a long time, and after that, I couldn't get enough meat (mostly not chicken, though). Left to my own devices now, after eating plenty of meat since not being a vegan, and letting go of the requirement to eat it, I do well with a mostly vegetarian diet, with sausage and eggs and burgers when I feel like it, and plenty of beans and starch more of the time.

    I think you made a comment at one point that maybe you'd be better had you never learned what you 'should' be eating, and though that's not entirely my sentiment, I agree with the gist of it. I can see a lot of parallels between what I gravitate toward now and what I liked as a kid before I tried intervening consciously to change my diet. All part of the journey, though, I reckon.

    Right on amigo.

  14. Yes Ray May! Just because you add a smartassness that makes it entertaining along with informative!

  15. so… what does intuitive eating look like for you and your experiences?

    get me up to speed re: starch, fruit, meat, fat, etc.

  16. Another vote for Ray.

  17. Matt,

    I love your website and your new direction. I have had to question all those nutrition beliefs that I indoctinated myself with. Oh my, I have done it all, starvation, low fat, low carb, run marathon miles for years. Now I am at square one trying oriental medicine, accupuncture and figuring out how to get my energy back. When I starved and ran 70 miles a week I became super thin and my whole body changed. Who knows what damage I have done, have gained weight (too much)but I am into the fruit and I know it is the stress that affects me most. When I eat too much and sleep late (7am) my temp goes up to 98.6.
    Thank you I am enjoying the journey.

  18. Another vote for Ray May!

  19. Awesome videos Matt! Thanks :)
    I definitely agree that "Ray May" is a good idea. Go for it!

    I had a question also. For eating gelatin, is there a specific way to eat it? Do you just get a powdered form and drink it like a smoothie? haha. Are there certain brands or types to try/avoid. Is bone broth the same (has proline, glycine, etc.) or better? What is your take on gelatin? Thanks.


  20. I knew Matt knew the secret. It's 4 words which sum up the first video… and the 1988 Song of the Year. Gotta love Robin Williams!


    Matt, only had time to watch 1 video for now (only had time for a quickie–ha!). But just wanted to put in my vote for Ray Peat month — bring it! I echo all the sentiments and agree with the Robster (again), that that's one of the things you do best–great! And May is my birthday month too, so it's gonna be a good one. Anyway, the first video was great. Hopefully I'll get a chance to watch the rest of them later tonight… with some air-popped-corn topped with coconut oil (like it even more than butter) and sea salt — yum! It's my favorite snack.

    P.S. And speaking of videos, where's the beef? Meatballs lol!

    Lisa, loved your "getting Stoned 101" and "Don't Panic" lol! And for the record, it may seem so, but no I don't get stoned — just high on life :-)

    Also, I second Undertow's suggestion. I downloaded that a while ago but still haven't been able to sit for 2 hours and listen to it lol!

  21. I think summarizing Peat's work is a brilliant idea. This is all so new to me and I have so many other things to do, there's no way I'll get it all read as quickly as I'd like.

    I also want to know what the deal is with gelatin — I haven't gotten that info from Josh & Jeanne's interviews with Ray. I typically make a lot of broth here, but only use it to make rice and soups on occasion. I was thinking that maybe I should be making some homemade Jello or something! I saw a recipe once on a low-carb forum for a coconut milk jello, which could be easily adapted for high carb by adding lots of sugar. :)

    Yesterday I was in line at Safeway and had a chance to examine the purchases of a little old lady in front of me (funny, even though I live in a town with a high population of elderly folks, I never see them at the health food store). It was awesome… she had a T-bone steak, a 2 lb. block of store-brand cheddar cheese, four bags of chocolate (Snickers, Heath, and two Hershey's bite-size), and two quarts of Breyer's vanilla ice cream. And then… then, she said to the cashier, "And, I'd like a pack of unfiltered Camels." She must have been in her late 80's or early 90's, and clearly enjoying life.

    Happy Sunday! I'm looking forward to what you and Ray bring this May.

  22. Matt,

    Have you read Why Zebra's Don't Get Ulcers by Robert Sapolsky? I'd love to hear your review of it. I haven't read it but I listened to his 12+ hour course Stress and Your Body from The Teaching Company which us a summation of it and I thought it was great. He touched on a lot of the things you've been talking about recently and I think you'd find it very interesting if you haven't already read it. It's a very great overview of how stress affects the various systems of the body from a completely scientific perspective.

  23. //wishes there was a way to subscribe without commenting//

  24. That's awesome about having a month of Ray. Great videos also! As you say the main cause of degenerative symptons is stress. Stress on the body increases the bodies need for sugar significantly, regardless of what triggers the stress.

    Lack of glucose interferes with respiratory energy production and instead of fully oxidizing glucose into CO2 it forms lactic acid. Additionally when there is not sufficient glucose the body activates the stress hormones that break down tissue for energy and releases free fatty acids which further reduces the respiration of mitochondria which creates insulin resistance etc…

    It would seem that eating the right types of foods such as avoiding puffas and making sure you are getting enough sugar etc….without stressing out about it would support a healthy mitochondria respirations and keep the stress system at bay. And the right type of exercise, perhaps weight bearing exercise and something like PACE would support mitochondria respiration. While those exercises might create lactic acid, my feeling is that the acute challenge will cause it to adapt and be more efficient.

    So I think it's no mistake that Matt is having such great success on his current diet as it really makes sense phisiologically as far as I can understand. The inability to do well on sugars etc…might signify a metabolic dysfunction within the individual. Such as being hpyothyroid to too long of a period allows bateria to build in the intestines that may cause one to fee light headed etc..If someone does better on a low carb diet for example it might be because they are already metabolically damaged.

    Anyway my point is that respiratory metabolism is a major key to health and high sugar and low pufas support this. And stress from no matter where without enough glucose is damaging to this respiration.

  25. Great videos, Matt. I'm wondering: does/can protein in excess of one's minimum requirement elevate stress hormones even on a high-fat, high-carb, high-salt, high-calorie diet?

  26. Two thumbs up for Ray May!

  27. Don't hummingbirds have high metabolisms and turtles low metabolisms? Does this not apply because they're not mammals? Not sure how applicable the dog analogy is to humans. Do smaller humans live longer?

  28. Gay Ray May gets Stoned sounds like a great plan.

    One question from the road, to folks like lynn and others with celiac: weird karma: right after we had that discussion of eating gluten, I accidentally got a crumb on board the day before we got on the road, and so was sick for about two days first part of our trip. Now I'm over it, and in a warm, sunny place (nice change from AK)and am wanting ideas on what to do when that happens.

    I thought positive thoughts, didn't beat up on myself, and was merely sick for two days instead of sick and miserable. But I was wondering whether eating charcoal or something like that would have helped the sickness end sooner…
    Thanks for any thoughts–and you can email me off thread (elamonster1 at gmail) if ya like–I don't want to hijack the thread…

  29. I swear half the reason I follow your blog is because your posts follow my own research so eerily well. I was researching intuitive eating from all different sites just before I came here. This is like the upteenth time you post on something I am interested in at the same time. Strange.

    Just some thoughts for you/others to consider:

    1. Have you ever considered the possibility that periodic fasts or other acute stresses improve metabolism long term? I know you say that you never let yourself get hungry, and I understand the hormonal arguments you justify that with. But protein restriction stimulates autophagy and perhaps there are other mechanisms that benefit the metabolism/health. You do have me convinced though that better to eat enough than too little.

    2. Your arguments suggests to me that caffeine is bad in general.

    3. I forget the other point I was going to make. I know everyone is so disappointed.

  30. Heres to more 'smartassness' ! Yippee!

  31. Matt is ageless like Bowie in 'the hunger'. Just don' t leave him in the Dr's waiting room too long.

  32. Speaking of "smartassness", is that an ice cream cone on Ray Peat's website or is he just happy to see us?

  33. LOL, you may have to refresh the page a few times to get it.

  34. Down for ""Ray May".

    Interested to see how far you've delved into his stuff, and what you make of it.

    To paraphrase something he said on that last interview with the Rubins:

    If you get enough protein, 80-100g per day or more, and consider the importance of fat and the essentiality of protein, then that leaves you only a certain amount for carbohydrate, and that is where Ray thinks fruit sugar and other sugars are a safe bet – as long as you're getting your fats (especially saturated like butter and coconut oil) and protein.

  35. Yes, I think diving into Ray Peat is a good idea for anyone wanting to understand the fundamentals of biology. And even so, maybe it's not a good place to start, as one is often left feeling like a deer in the headlights when reading his articles.

    I've mentioned before that it's frustrating how Peat gives us pieces of the big hormonal picture, but never puts it all together. Such as, where does adrenalin (epinephrine) fit into everything, where does HGH, where does prolactin, cortisol, testosterone, etc. And, perhaps more relatable, what do these things feel like (for example, adrenalin vs cortisol). Without the big picture, one cannot see if what he's saying makes sense or contradicts itself. I guess he assumes his audience should get the background elsewhere. So, not knowing if we should believe Wikipedia or not, I asked him what a good resource is. He replied:

    "Any of (Hans) Selye’s, including the Encyclopedia of Endocrinology, McGavack’s Thyroid, G. Jasmin’s Endocrine Aspects of Disease Processes, any of F.Z. Meerson’s books (although he was thought of as a cardiologist, he worked mainly with the physiology of adaption)."

    Unfortunately, I'm too lazy to dive into this myself, but maybe this will be of use to someone here. When I remarked that I couldn't find a chart online of the rise and fall of hormones throughout a day, and the difference in levels between men and women, he surprisingly said "It would be useful to have a factual chart of the daily hormone cycles, but the research is still spotty, with more guesses than facts." Perhaps this is why he hasn't pulled it all together in his articles.

    For example, I gathered this regarding circadian rhythms from this article: http://raypeat.com/articles/aging/aging-estrogen-progesterone.shtml

    Sleep- a state of "shock"
    Serotonin rises due to the "stress" of darkness.
    Estrogen rises, causing hyperventilation (as with any state of shock) and release of HGH.
    HGH releases free fatty acids into the blood.
    Hyperventilation causes oxygen to rise and CO2 to fall, causing vasoconstriction.
    Cortisol is low at first but rises with estrogen and growth hormone (perhaps to raise blood sugar levels?), reaching its peak at dawn.
    Progesterone lowers at night.

    "Good sleep requires fairly vigorous metabolism and a normal body temperature. In old age, the metabolic rate is decreased, and sleep becomes defective. Protein synthesis declines with aging, as the metabolic rate slows. At least in the brain, protein synthesis occurs most rapidly in deep sleep."

    It would take some diligent work to put it all together though, and to understand the way that biology "speaks", in a sense, in order to understand how things go wrong. For example, we have the idea that low metabolism is from low thyroid, and we can think of it as "hibernation mode". A permanent state of hibernation is what's wrong with obesity. But isn't it more complicated than that?

  36. One question we could try to tackle is what diabetes is all about. For one, it would be good because diabetes, like obesity, is something a lot of people need answers to, and would spread like wildfire if a solution was found. And also, it's often seen that diabetes is the extreme of the developing problem of obesity as one ages, considered to have the same cause: increasing insulin resistance. However, reading through Peat's article gives one the impression that the traditional story of cells becoming insulin resistant, insulin rising as blood sugar rises, and finally, pancreatic cells burning out and failing to produce insulin, may not be so grounded with evidence. I don't know what Peat's getting at here, but there's elevated cortisol, increased free fatty acids, hypothyroidism (along with increased adrenalin as a reaction), and reduced mitochondrial energy from PUFAs in the jumble.


    Also he mentions how diabetes can be produced in animals using various toxins, such as a heavy metal (perhaps including iron) or alloxan. This would go with my idea that obesity can also be a reaction to various toxins and contaminants we are exposed to, which may not be so easy to treat. Alloxan in particular is a byproduct of bleaching flour somehow (http://www.healthiertalk.com/little-known-secrets-about-bleached-flour-0499), although Wikipedia links to sources that say "alloxan is not toxic to the human beta-cell [in the pancreas], even in very high doses". Also, should we be considering fluoride as a possible contributor to hypothyroidism? Peat oddly hasn't addressed it.

    Naina said…

    Curious why glutamic acid becomes neurotoxic? I do believe this happens in my brain.

    I wonder about this myself, being that it tastes so good. I don't know how harmful it is on its own, but Peat mentions that serotonin and estrogen increase susceptability to excitotoxins, having the same excitotoxic effects themselves: simultaneously increasing cell energy demands while decreasing mitochondrial energy production. Russell Blaylock of course thinks glutamate is the devil, but I can't help but think that in moderate amounts it might be good somehow, as in, a brain stimulating effect, which is why people are so attracted to it. Or maybe it's like a drug. Some people seem to do fine with caffeine, for instance, but for me it is dangerous. One has to have a flexible system in order to rebound and manage such things.

  37. More odd quotes from Peat:

    "The hormone patterns associated with obesity can be seen as either cause or effect of the obesity (or both cause and effect), since, for example, low thyroid can increase both estrogen and cortisol, which support the formation of fat, and the fat cells can become a chronic source of estrogen synthesis."

    "In the 1930s, my father had severe diabetes, but after a few weeks of living on brewer's yeast, he recovered and never had any further evidence of diabetes. Besides its high B-vitamin and protein content, yeast is an unusual food that should be sparingly used…"

  38. Another vote for Ray May!

    BTW, comparing meals with fruit versus starch, I think I'm seeing the following benefits with the fruit: (1) less post-meal sleepiness, (2) less hunger in general, (3) much better stress tolerance, and (4) some fat loss. Sipping juice all day seems to amplify these benefits.

  39. Say yay for Ray May!

  40. I vote for Mustache May!

  41. Thanks RobA and LOL grassfed! A young pup ;-)

  42. Brandon,

    I've started mixing Bernard Jensen's Gelatin with fruit juice as some Peat followers seem to do. My method is to boil about a 1/4 cup of water and dissolve the gelatin. Add ice cubes to cool and then the juice.


    I did try your suggestion a couple of threads ago and it didn't really work for me. It was much better than my initial attempt, but I think I'm too impatient for it. Thanks for the response though.

  43. "when I be sipping on the gin and juice all day my body starts craving fat, meat and salt"

    Yeah same here. I tried to go all day one day just eating juice and fruit. I was ready to eat my truck partner by 3:00.

  44. I agree with everyone else, I think Ray May would be awesome. I think it would be very interesting if you could fit a post in there about the differences between how the body handles fructose in fruit vs how it handles HFCS and others

  45. Let it Ray, please!

  46. At the 0:15 mark on Intuitive Eating I hear what sounda like a big pussy. Kitty cat gonna be in the next 180 Kitchen?

  47. Just some thoughts on this intuitive eating thing;

    when i was a child, i would naturally select m and ms, ice cream, chocolate, cereal, white bread, pb and j sandwiches, etc… over pretty much anything. i gained a bunch of weight, started developing a serious case of depression, would drink lots of pop to wake me up, etc…

    although i do agree that we should listen to our body, i'm not entirely convinced about eating as much "processed" foods as our body tells us to. i've noticed they tend to have an affect on our body similar to that of a drug with all the crap they put into it. something like ice cream is, in the scheme of things, really not all that processed.

    this is definitely something to talk about more, though, as there is most definitely something to it now that you've got me thinking about it. in fact, last night i had a dream that i went out and bought coco pebbles and ate a big bowl. in fact, i think i may do that right now and give this intuitive eating thing a shot to see where it takes me personally.

    thanks Mathew!


  48. Brandon-

    I haven't toyed much with the gelatin yet.


    Yeah, Peat is all about gelatin as a de-stressing protein source that is very complimentary to muscle meat and mitigates the inflammation and stress cascade.


    Peat seems to equate acute stress with chronic stress, but I think the two are polar opposites. It's obvious that you want to be spending the majority of your time in a very low-stress state, but exercise seems to put people in a low stress state the majority of the time as long as they are not overtraining. This again points to short bursts of exercise with lots and lots of recovery.

    Jim De Wit-

    Yeah, same here. But I do notice an incredible increase in caloric consumption when I'm eating to appetite of a lot of fat and sugar combined. It could take me all day to eat a 1,000 calorie bowl of plain oatmeal, but I put away a pint of Haagen Dasz on two sugar cones in about 8 minutes last night. Fat and sugar is a hell of a lot more fattening in the short term than sugar and sugar or fat and fat. But that may not necessarily be a bad thing. We'll see.


    I determined that insulin resistance was a manifestation of elevated catabolic hormones years ago, and THEN read Peat's work to see that he had taken it much farther, and understood the big picture, much better than I did. Reading Peat has been humbling in a sense, as he pieced together things years (or decades) ago that I just recently arrived at.

    There is no indication that the blood sugar spike model of insulin resistance is at all accurate. Rather, getting thyroid up and stress hormones down, which go hand in hand, seems to be the solution to elevated blood sugar – which is why I did RRARF and tested my blood sugar as an experiment, only to find it falling by 25% or so in 30 days. Others have seen dramatic improvments in glucose clearance as well from minimizing catecholamines ala RRARF. Perhaps with sugar it will be even better. Perhaps not. We'll see.

  49. LOL!!! I can't stop laughing Matt…not at you, but I only made it to the part on the first video when you were talking about ice cream and it's effects on the nerves basically.

    I just had a mental image of whenever my children are stressing me out I'm trucking it to the freezer and eating ice cream like there's no tomorrow.

    And, I'm glad you made a funny and started laughing, because just before you did I was thinking I had never seen you really really laugh before, which seemed odd based on all your jokes that get ME cracked UP! I mean, I thought I was going to pass out when you snuck in some reference to Mary Kate and Ashley Olsen in one of your e-books- my husband can't stand them and it just struck me as funny.
    Too bad there's no way for you to see our reactions when we watch your videos or read your posts. I know I'd be entertaining!

    Ok, now I will pull myself together and try to watch the rest….


  50. That was pretty interesting the study in Chris Masterjohn's blog post where those on a low fat/high sugar diet gained the least amount of fat, even compared to those that were low fat and low sugar.

  51. I too loved the brain fart section of the video. Matt you have a great laugh and smile and I am not saying that just because I love you. It's true.
    BTW when I called you about the FLA hurricane shiz, my daughter said "You have a crush on him."
    Kids are so damn smart. :-)

  52. @Brock
    1. Good parents/genes
    2. Vampire
    3. See "Dorian Gray"


  53. @ Johnny Lawrence!
    'I tried to go all day one day just eating juice and fruit. I was ready to eat my truck partner by 3:00.'

    Don't do it because "when there is no room left in hell, the dead will walk the earth"!
    Another 70's classic and HEY is that Al Sharpton, gotta look quickly at the security guard in the beginning.

    "They must be destroyed on sight!"

  54. On the nighttime urination point. I started RRARF directly after going completely carnivore and before that a low carb paleo. During the low/no carb days i had severe abdominal pressure at night and found i had to get up to pee multiple times, it would usually wake me up it hurt so bad but when i peed it actually wouldnt even be a full bladder. In a single full day and night of going on the RRARF this phenomena went away completely. Even a pain on my upper right side that i thought was a hernia went away. I am guessing the de-stressing of the diet or the high amount of carbs did it.. im still amazed about that one. BTW its been a couple months now and i am able to train heavy kettlebells again with no abdominal pain and nighttime urination is completely gone. Hooray for sugar!

  55. To me it seems like he is saying RRARF didn't work, but the problem wasn't RRARF, the problem is that it is impossible to get leaner? Is this correct?

    On Ice cream as the new health food. My sister became obese eating a diet of almost pure ice cream. She literally gets almost all of her calories from ice cream. She goes for long periods of time only eating ice cream and it has made her gain fat rapidly. My dad is the same but not quite as bad. They both do it intermittent fasting style too. Fast all day and then eat a huge tub of ice cream at night. If you want to get fat and sick quickly do this.

  56. Just thought I would mention to any women lurking- in the first video Matt mentions something about better menstrual cycles. In 2009 I had a tubal ligation after the 4th baby (and 4th c-section, ouch!). Since then, menstruation has been very painful and long and heavy, not to mention more irregular. This past month I have been eating a lot of whatever the heck I wanted, which included soda, chips, snowcones at ball games and whatever tickled my fancy. Anyways, this time around the period was a breeze! And I was even pretty sick from allergies or something for a week during the period.

    I'm just wondering if somehow the hormones got what they needed and acted normal for once!

  57. On chatecholamines.Please people! before you go on a mission to lower chatecholamine levels do more research so that you don't damage yourself. I know lowering levels is starting to be the new fixation on here, but it is NOT good for everyone to lower them. Chatecholamine depletion is a horrible state to be in.

  58. at Anneatheart:
    My bff had a tubal, and ever since had real menstrual issues etc. Recently I heard that doing a tubal or on a man a vasectomy basically puts you into an early menopause and your hormones shift etc, for men andropause or whatever you call male menopause/hormone down regulation.
    I hope ETF helps long term.

  59. Ela – Peppermint tea and Deflatine are the only things that help me sadly. :(

  60. JT, you make me laugh – I know its probably not on purpose, but I do mean it as a compliment. I like that you always play devil's advocate. I agree that an ice cream only diet is a fast-track to fat. I don't think it's the same as a couple of scoops of ice cream after dinner, though, with an overall healthy diet.

    Matt, I love the intuitive eating theme. I always preach this – it's totally the key, and helps your body balance out whatever is going on. I agree with Anonymous that it requires whole foods, though. I really believe that the chemicals in processed food mess with your body and get in the way of normal signals. Eating doritos and ho-hos in response to cravings probably won't help your health long-term.

    I haven't done the big-time sugar thing because my body intuitively tells me not to. I love a high-starch diet that's low to moderate in fat. My body looks great on it. But sometime I really do crave more fruit and sugar, and I eat it when I do. I've realized it's great to have fruit 1st thing in the morning. That works great for my body.

    I totally agree on the calorie restriction = aging thing, as well. As someone with a few mid-aged relatives with eating disorders (sadly EDs run in the family), they definitely have aged much more quickly. Besides, just basic enjoyment of life is an issue. I'm way, way happier without an eating disorder, I'd rather be this way even if it meant I wouldn't live as long. When you were talking about caloric restriction from birth I was thinking, please don't let people start doing this so their kids will live longer. I'm a very petite woman and that's great, but if I were a guy, I'd rather be big even if it meant a lower lifespan – you get ahead more in life (no offense to any smaller men – maybe it's just my take). And besides, I'd rather have the good bone structure that comes from being well-fed.

  61. Amy,
    I'm glad you find my comments entertaining. I know I come across super serious on here, but I'm really not.

    Regarding the ice cream I agree that little won't make you fat. But, you have to understand that many of the people on here will take it to am extreme because they think Matt declared it a health food. Especially the ones that have a problem with binging. They will just say it is ok because they are eating intuitively by skipping breakfast in the morning because they aren't hungry because of the binge the night before, then gorge on a few tubs of ice cream atfoods night because that is what they body told them it needed! They will listen to their intuition that tells them tonight they need rocky road and last night their body told them it needed cookies and cream.

    I also agree with you that intuitive eating would only work if you are eating whole unprocessed foods.

  62. I agree, JT, and I've said as much in earlier posts.

    Recommending things like sweets and ice cream is a recipe for disaster for so many people. They just won't be able to control themselves, and end up binge eating to a much worse body composition and state of health than they had prior to these recommendations.

    People have a hard time with context, and I'm afraid many of these recommendations will be taken way out of context — to the extreme as you alluded to. Especially with how OCD society is in general these days, it's bound to happen.

  63. @ JT-

    You really need to get a life man. Why are you here? I used to think that you actaully believed in what you were saying and trying to be helpful. Thats why i would just overlook all your misguided insights. I usually dont' waste my time arguing with dumbasses but I got to call bullshit here. I think you just must disagree with Matt no matter what. But if you really believe Matt declared ice cream a "health food" whatever the fuck that is, then you are a dumbass, and if you think people here are that stupid then you are a dumbass, and anyone who would do what you wrote or believe what you wrote is a dumbass.

    Shut the fuck up and listen for a change man. If you can't do that then go get a life.

    JT wrote: "But, you have to understand that many of the people on here will take it to am extreme because they think Matt declared it a health food. Especially the ones that have a problem with binging. They will just say it is ok because they are eating intuitively by skipping breakfast in the morning because they aren't hungry because of the binge the night before, then gorge on a few tubs of ice cream atfoods night because that is what they body told them it needed!"

    We dont need you to save us man. I didnt do that. Did any one else here do that? Come on tell the truth all you retards out there.

  64. Yo, JB, JT's comments are reasonable. And, there are some people who will do the extreme of Matt's latest conjecture. Why are you trying to dissuade reasonable discussion?

  65. dumbasses … bullshit … dumbass … dumbass … dumbass … Shut the fuck up … retards

    Did you get abused as a child or something?

  66. LOL at Joe Blow. Everything JT has said is reasonable. You on the other hand…


    One thing about this sugar stuff (at the least, refined as opposed to fruit) is the super-stimuli factor on fat set-point that stephen at wholehealthsource blogged about recently. Matt touched on it before but I'd like to hear more about it.

  67. JT,

    "They both do it intermittent fasting style too. Fast all day and then eat a huge tub of ice cream at night."

    From the current rationale, wouldn't that be super-healthy though? Getting lots of cals in one meal should be boosting metabolism through the roof, especially since most come from healthy sucrose (and good healthy saturated dairy fat)! In addition, there are substantial emotional benefits of eating such a wonderful comfort food, there is the high fukitol factor, and even intermittant fasting! You've got the perfect recipe for weight loss right there! Add some gelatine to that and it will secure a long healthy life. You could market that stuff and cite some Ray Peat studies for the scientific backup.

    Did Matt really recommend eating junk to counter stress in his second video? Sounds like a wise strategy to me.

  68. What does it mean if your metabolism is high, but your body temperature is consistently low?

  69. I listened to the Rubins interviews yesterday with Matt, and got a sense of what JT was talking about here- maybe catecholamines aren't the root cause of our distress, and maybe shouldn't have war waged on them. Balance, right?

    Now I know Matt will probably say this *is* about balance, since we're in such a chronically inflammatory state and stress hormones are the side effect of our crazy imbalanced life. But he also says, wisely, that he often ends up most wrong about the things he's most sure about, and it seems like 180 is pretty sure about this.

    Who knows actually? I support the journey and don't want to undermine this line of thinking, because I'm confident it will lead to fruitful things But in listening to some of the conversation on the posts, in the videos, in the radio shows, it seems like the assumption is that inflammation and stress hormones are the key stressor that we need to minimize to regain health. And it's plausible we're just out of balance with them. But i keep wondering what the other side of the story is, what they're good for, and whether successfully villainizing them is going to work wonders for our health.

    JT and Michael,
    I can see the possibility that folks may take ice cream to be a new health food, but what is Matt to do about that? I think he tries to cultivate and speak to an informed audience here, and if some readers are in a place where they want to latch on to a new edict, I don't know there's anything Matt can do to stop that. He's already made it clear that he wants everyone to cultivate their own intuitive eating style and not do what he's doing- I think he's done his due diligence here in combatting his status as guru.

    In fairness, Matt doesn't advocate IF precisely because it can raises those stress hormones. So even if you interpret him as claiming ice cream is a health food, it's not reasonable to mock him for someone doing poorly on IF and an all ice-cream diet.

    Sounds to me like he's saying that RRARF didn't get everyone lean, though for some it did. And while it's not impossible to get lean, even long-term, we just don't know clearly and systematically how to manipulate the variables so that most people can with success, without rebound, without developing an eating disorder, etc.


    Great video! Wise words indeed, Bobby!

  70. Joe B,
    Thank you for being so rational in your response! If you think I need to listen for a change, then please let me know what I am misunderstanding?

    Matt is promoting icecream as healthy, he is just taking this from Ray peat who has been pro ice cream for a long time.

  71. Michael,
    Yes I think it will be taken to the extreme. I probably should have waited to say something so that we could see how many people came on here to brag about how many gallons of ice cream they hinged on, and how now they are so happy that their temperature went up to 98 degrees.

    Intuitive eating will only work for most people, especially those with food issues, if they use whole unprocessed foods. The worst thing would be to do it with foods that are high sugar and high fat.

    Yes that would be super healthy because you are listening to your body and eating when hungry. So if you are not hungry all day and your body tells you to binge on candy at night then that is going to make you healthy.

    Matt should explain to his followers the context and boundaries of his recommendations, and yes he does have a responsibility to his followers.

    Regarding IF, Matt would have to say it is healthy now since he is promoting intuitive eating. Most people who have binge eating issues are doing this because they are listening to their body and only eating when hungry.

  72. I RRARFed for 30 days, gaining 11#. Got my temps up from mid 96 to high 97, sometimes 98. Couldn't stand the extra weight, started HCG diet 10 days ago, have lost 7# and temps are still high. Have 30 days to go on the diet.

  73. First I wasnt calling you guys retards I was pointing out that JT assumes that we are all retards and stupid enough to eat and think a all ice cream diet is the secret to it all.

    Second I said what i said to purposely be extreeeeme to make a point and speak to the absurdity of JTs comments. I understand the concern that some poor lost souls will take it to the extreme but they would with or without JT or Matts help. Those people have other issues that need dealing with. But for the most part we are all reasonably informed here and intellegent enough to make smarter choices than to eat nothing but ice cream or tubs of it at a time. JTs sis was probably going thru some pretty stressful stuff in her life and soothing it with ice cream. Like I said other issues going on there.

    JT man I apologize if my comments came across harsh but I was be extreme on purpose. Yuor comments were extreme exageration and your assumption that we are that stupid was offensive to me and to Matt so it set me off.

    Nothing personal man. But I do think if we/you listen more we might learn something. You need to open your mind to more possibities outside of your own personal views on diet and to more enjoyment in your so self-disciplined life.

    People binge because of deprivation. Like Matt did with sugar- set forbidden food free from prison (ice cream whatever) and you have no more bingeing or extremes. Freedom and removing stress will have a bigger impact than diet and food on your body and your quality of life.

    Again i apologize to any one who was offended.

  74. Rob,

    so if I eat ice cream 5 times a day because I crave it (intuition) and it keeps me relaxed (anti-stress) is it healthy then? I'm just kidding, but I do think the recent turn the 180 thing is taking is rather surreal. I'm with JT. Intuitive eating works with real food, but not with deceptive stuff like ice cream that allows you to easily explode your calorie intake.

  75. Ray May! Maybe even more on PCOS would be fantastic!

  76. J Blow,
    I understand that diet can be a highly emotional subject for many, but we really need to focus on being purely rational in our evaluation. Your second response was much more clear in what you were trying to express because it was less emotionally charged.

    Again, please show me where I am not listening/ understanding what is going on?

    Matt is promoting intuitive eating + processed high sugar/high fat foods. This is the combination that creates binging, obesity and sickness.

    If someone had a diet that was mostly ice cream, what be bad about that from Matts perspective? Seriously, how does that conflict from what is being promoted here? It is high sugar, low protein, highly calories dense food that would supposedly decrease stress in the body for those reasons. It is very low in tryptophan and PUFA and there is no muscle meat, so it is great. To make it perfect you should make it with coffee and gelatin added. Seriously, look into what I'm saying and point out any inaccuracy.

  77. Sorry, but those of you condoning total dietary freedom and anti stress realize that's how the majority of obese people sitting on their couch all day got that way right? I really just don't get it I guess.

  78. yea, what JT said

  79. Hans, not only does it cause an explosion of calories, but it total screws up the signalling and biofeedback that make intuitive eating possible. Seems to me you have 2 choices: 1 is to eat processed high sugar and fat foods, but not eat intuitively and control macros and calories. Or 2, eat intuitively but eat whole unprocessed foods.

  80. Kirk,
    I'm interested in the super-stimuli response you mentioned above. I think this is key to understanding the addictive nature of these foods as well. Even wild animals lose their natural instinct for their natural foods when they are exposed to these foods. I wonder if it does something to the brain? I would be interested to hear more of your thoughts on this.

  81. JT, I think we come from similar backgrounds here and I find myself nodding my head in agreement with most things you're saying.

    Kirk said:

    "Sorry, but those of you condoning total dietary freedom and anti stress realize that's how the majority of obese people sitting on their couch all day got that way right? I really just don't get it I guess."

    I have been thinking the same thing. Things like this is what got many people to their current health predicament in the first place — eating liberally of junk foods because they "craved" it.

    I'm sorry, ice cream may help with raising a person's temperature, but it has and always will be junk food and a sure way to get FAT fast.

    Ice cream and other junk food CAN be used intelligently to positively influence a person's health and physique. But I don't think eating this stuff regularly to keep stress hormones low all the time is it.

  82. Yea, I'd like everyone's thoughts on it as well. I think processed foods are just engineered to overstimulate the reward system way above nature intended the same way drugs are addictive. I don't think even full fat cream on watermelon with honey or something like that could come anywhere close to a big mac with a milkshake or coke etc. I think it's clearly why people can eat an entire tub of icecream at once as opposed to all day for a bowl of oatmeal, and I don't think its a good thing like Matt is possibly suggesting. The reward pathways seek more and more of this hyper stimulation, thus increased fat setpoint to accommodate more and more cravings for such foods that you can down way too many calories of. Even these acute "addictions" could possibly cause one to justify what they're doing as healthy and may be cause for intervention. ;)

  83. Dang it, I have so little time to do this right now, but want to chime in here while my thoughts are fresh in my mind. I know Matt doesn't need my help and he can most definitely do a better job explaining it. But gonna give it a shot. And I gotta let this one fly without proofing, cause gotta run, so here it goes, typos and all lol!

    First of all, I don't recall Matt ever saying people should eat only or even a ton of ice cream — in fact, he has said he doesn't eat much of it himself.

    I understand the "couch potato" misconception, but most of the reason people sit on the couch watching TV (or on their computer) all day and *mindlessly* eating, is because they have nothing else in their life to live for — AND/OR they're escaping the stress of their life, with TV/computer/video games AND food.

    Anyway, Matt addresses the next point briefly somewhere in one of the videos (and maybe in more detail in the other videos–I still need to finish all of them). It's not so much the food a person eats, it's the STRESSES that their mind and body are under, which is more likely causing the fat gain and other health issues. Your body responds to chronic mental/physical stress the way it is designed to deal with famine — it's the only way it knows how to deal with "modern" stresses. Your body can go into a kind of *modern day* starvation mode, triggered by *modern day stress* just like it did back in the day to famine and other stresses back then. Humans have SO MUCH MORE stress now; and which are much more MENTAL and CHRONIC these days — wreaking havoc — stress hormones!

    Anyway, I had planned to bring up my next points later, when I had more time to think about it and write it up in a more coherent way and in less words lol! But going back to what Matt said in one of the videos… He touched on the issue of the way people *blame* the changes in our modern day foods in contrast to food way back when. But then he kinda left it hanging there. Maybe he addressed it more in another video.

    Anyway, Matt, correct me if I'm wrong, but from what I gathered, his point (in that part of the video) was to say, sure, people want to blame the modern foods — like so-called junkfood and all the refining and processing of our modern day food. And then he said something like, but there's more to it than that. And that's where he kinda left it hanging… maybe he lost his train of thought at that moment. And maybe he did pick it back up later in another video (I need to finish watching them). But I'm going to continue with that train of thought here. That's true that our foods ARE more processed and therefore *presumably* of lesser quality than foods back in the day — and, as such, people tend to blame our modern food.

    And I will add this… BUT there's the fact that we *also* have WAY MORE STRESS these days — especially mental stress. So, who's to say that it's the changes in the quality (maybe) of the food, rather than the *dramatic* increase in STRESS these days, that has caused the *decline* in health and *increase* in obesity? Matt, I know you know this… I'm just echoing your initial "there's more to it than food quality" point, and filling in the gap with my stress point, because both relate to and lend to my next point.

    So, I do agree (with a caveat that I'll get to in a sec), don't stress so much about the food — eat what feels right to you at any given time. Yes, intuitive eating. And instead, focus more on relieving stress in your life and pursuing things that make you happy and feel fulfilled — not just escaping life with hours of TV/internet/games AND mindless eating. Also, if you *only* medicate or coddle your stresses with anti-stress foods, and never truly eliminate the stresses and their causes — then don't expect to lose fat or improve your health, not matter what you eat.


  84. I do believe the main root cause of obesity and health issues in our modern society, is modern stress, more than modern food. But I'm certainly open to the possibly that "modern stresses" may very well include lesser quality (maybe) due to processing of modern foods (in terms of nutrient deficiencies and toxins and the stress they too can cause in the body). However, I believe modern stress is the main root cause because I have seen *removal of stress* alone (with no change in diet) eliminate fat and health issues for many.

    BUT… this includes *also* gaining a positive relationship with yourself & others and a positive mindset/outlook on life in general. AND… removing unhealthy relationships with food — like food phobias, dieting, obsession with eating only "healthy" foods, guilt for eating "forbidden" foods, and so on. Give yourself permission to be human and not perfect.

    And sure, if you are in such a mental state of stress, that you can't just consciously turn it off, by saying to yourself, "Think positive, yippy!" Then, yes, eating "de-stressing" comfort foods can help elieviate the stress hormones at the moment (like helping you sleep better–for example). But don't rely on just that type of stress relief alone. Or think that doing so is going to fix everything. And be sure to eat sufficient nutrients overall, of course.

    Take Anneatheart's comments, for example…
    "This past month I have been eating a lot of whatever the heck I wanted, which included soda, chips, snowcones at ball games and whatever tickled my fancy. Anyways, this time around the period was a breeze! And I was even pretty sick from allergies or something for a week during the period. I'm just wondering if somehow the hormones got what they needed and acted normal for once!"

    Great! But it wasn't just the food itself — it was the food freedom. It's the fact that she relaxed and let herself eat whatever she wanted WITHOUT GUILT — that's so key. Relieving stress in more ways than one — releasing it's power in her mind with guilt-free permission to eat so-called "forbidden" food, which then also helps lower the accompanying stress hormone at the moment.

    JT, think about the reason why your sister was eating so much ice cream. It's not the ice cream itself, it's the STRESS that was causing your sister to COMFORT herself with the ice cream. And of course, if most all of her calories were coming from ice cream, how could you blame it on ice cream? The blame lies in not giving her body what it needs (sufficient nutrition overall). She was likely in more of a nutritional starvation kind of stress, as well as the mental stress that was causing her to eat that way. If she had been eating sufficient nutrients, in addition to all that ice cream, (and provided the stress was gone), who knows how different things would have played out for her. But her stress level caused her (and people in general) to eat that way.

    Anyway, Matt, the video summary was an awesome idea. And I hope people really *get* just how much of a role stress plays. In my humble opinion, and from what I've seen, stress, more often than not, plays a much bigger role than food. And I hope people don't over-emphasize coddling their stress (shutting down the stress hormones with anti-stress foods) — over relieving and eliminating stress, and adding feel good things to their lives, in addition to overall *nutritionally sufficient* dietary freedom with some comfort foods too.

    But, Matt, I for one, did *get* and agree with your message. And, of course, there is so much more to discuss and explore, like you said.

  85. Oh, and one last point…

    Putting the stress factor aside, I personally DO NOT believe that "intuitive" eating *only* works with *only* unprocessed whole foods. I believe, as long as your body is getting enough of what it *needs* overall (nutritionally speaking), that your body will take care of the rest — in the context of a nutritionally sufficient diet & happy low-stress life. And dietary freedom is not only a good strategy for physical health, it has the added benefit of being good for your mental health — which plays a huge role in your overall health, well being, state of mind, and quality of life.

    Don't worry, be happy! :-)

    Sorry it was so long. But, again, I didn't have time to make it short, seriously. Those were just my rambling thoughts for now… I had to post and run lol! :-)

    P.S. I also echo the comments that those who would take it to extremes, have psychological issues that need to be addressed. Matt is not a shrink, as far as I know, and is not responsible for that.

  86. JT, didn't realize the humor was intended, people should keep that in perspective, too. I see your point about people taking it to the extreme. And, yes, that sounds exactly like a binge and people should NOT do that. Having come from an ED background (more restrictive-anorexic, but I was exercise bulimic, too, at times, with binges), I never liked the overeating part of Rrarf. It sounded too much like binging to me, which is neither pleasant nor likely to make you feel emotionally balanced, IMO. When I was recovering, I specifically had to learn to incorporate treats without binging, which was part of learning intuitive eating.

    I also learned to eat regular meals, so agree with you on that point. A lot of people do need to learn that structure.

    Agree with AS that you don't need ALL whole food, but do think you probably need mostly whole food. Then added treats are enjoyable and you can still maintain a good level of health. Now that I eat whole foods, I wouldn't even want doritos anyway, but a nice ice cream cone or some chocolate pudding is fantastic a couple of times a week. The goal should be balance. And yes, happiness is really key, and if you have no treats you won't be so happy! Dietary freedom IMO is eating what makes you feel healthy, listening to your body and not feeling like you can't eat certain foods/ever have treats.

  87. LOVE these videos, thank you Mr. Stone!

    JT, I agree with you – I can "intuitively" eat myself to a very unhealthy weight if I allow myself all the Doritos I want. (In fact, I've done this!) But I can also intuitively eat and stay healthy if my house is filled with largely homemade or low-processed foods, including sweets like homemade cookies and ice cream. (In fact, I've done this!)

    Doritos are brilliant and evil.

  88. FWIW: A couple weeks ago I woke with a headache and decided to put sugar in my coffee, which I never do, because I had read years ago that sugar can get the caffeine there faster and knock out a headache. I found I loved it, and did it with my second coffee, my afternoon coffee, etc. I felt fantastic. And I found my urge to binge on whatever foods is much more in check. In fact, I'm feeling more comfortable taking an intuitive approach to food.

    I'm starting to wonder if I craved sugar all that time when I restricted sugar not because I'm weak or addicted, but because some sugar is healthy for my body.

    Energy and mood are elevated, I'm sleeping much better, and my body feels warmer. I was at 96 BBT a month ago – one of these mornings I need to remember to check again to see if it's up. (I'm hypothyroid, btw. Would be nice if sugar got things happening in the thyroid, too! A gal can dream…)

  89. Matt,
    I want to kiss you after watching your intuitive eating video.
    You are the shiznit, baby!
    This is spot on for me right now.

  90. OMG, what did you do to your beautiful hair?!

  91. @ JT-

    You wrote: "we really need to focus on being purely rational in our evaluation"

    That was my point to you. But apparently you missed it. Your comments were exaggerations and irrational. Even in your last comments things you presented as Matts recommendations were exaggerated (for dramatic effect) and most definitely irrational.

    You wrote: "If someone had a diet that was mostly ice cream, what be bad about that from Matts perspective? Seriously, how does that conflict from what is being promoted here?"

    It largely conflicts with what is promoted here. No one said anything about eating an all or even mostly junk food diet. Nor to the exclusion of proper nutrition otherwise. Eat a nutritious based diet just dont deprive yourself of foods like ice cream when you feel like it. That is what I hear Matt saying.

    Open your mind a little man. You accuse Matt of basing his recommendations on his own personal experiences and therefore consider them misguided. But all your "advice" is highly biased by your own personal experiences as you have said over and over. So much so that you wont budge from your own misguided views no matter what. At least Matt is open minded to keep learning more and even accepts that he was mistaken about some things. But you stick to your views period and thats it. You dont know everything. Believe it or not you have much more to learn as we all do. Open your mind. Its ok to be wrong. Learn from it.

  92. Joe Blow

    JT isn't missing your point, he's ignoring it. He is obviously an intelligent man that just enjoys 'poking the bear' for his own amusement. Then when he is called out on it, plays innocent and can't understand why everyone is turning against him when he just trying to to make sure us dumb sheep don't get sucked into Matt the Guru's dangerous cult.

  93. What Steph and some others said, made me want to clarify what I said with regard to "intuitive" eating.

    Steph said…
    "I can "intuitively" eat myself to a very unhealthy weight if I allow myself all the Doritos I want. (In fact, I've done this!) But I can also intuitively eat and stay healthy if my house is filled with largely homemade or low-processed foods, including sweets like homemade cookies and ice cream. (In fact, I've done this!) "

    Maybe some people have a distorted view of the concept of intuitive eating — or perhaps just misinterpreting what "eating intuitively" really is. First of all, when you eat freely, with no restriction, and with no guilt(!), the binge eating stops — as several people here have observed/experienced and noted above. There's a big difference between intuitive eating and emotional eating, as well as binge eating from feeling deprived because of restriction. That's not intuition, that's emotion, and that's deprivation. You cannot *trust* your intuition (your better judgment), when you are restricting and depriving yourself. And you can't effectively eat intuitively if you're under a lot of mental stress. And to make it clear, when I say eat freely, I'm talking about not restricting so-called "forbidden" foods *within* (not instead of) an overall nutritionally sufficient diet.

    And I agree with this that Joe Blow said…

    "No one said anything about eating an all or even mostly junk food diet. Nor to the exclusion of proper nutrition otherwise. Eat a nutritious based diet just dont deprive yourself of foods like ice cream when you feel like it. That is what I hear Matt saying."

    Nicely said :-)

  94. Jblow & Princess, I am not ignoring or misunderstanding the point. I understand it more because I already know all of Peat's works. Look at past comments from 2 years ago where I promoted Peat and Matt bashed him. I have MUCH more experience with this way of eating than Matt. What you are calling "junk food" is not junk in this way of eating.

    Again, I am taking the thinking of RRARF + Peat to it logical conclusions to show the possible absurdities. If you can't understand its not my fault. I will try to help if you really want to learn, but i will not try to force you.

    Matt did say it is better to avoid "healthy" whole foods and eat dessert instead. How do you think he "cured" his girlfriend's kid!

    Please show some contradiction in my thinking! Show me the logical inconsistencies instead of just attacking perceived character flaws that you are projecting onto me.

    Why doesn't Matt even attempt to defend his views from rational evaluation anymore?

  95. @ JT-

    I give. Your right. I'm wrong. I guess I'm just too stupid to understand. Please commence to showing us the error of our ways oh wise knower of all.

    @ Princess-

    Exactly. And I stepped right into it against my better judgment as I predicted. I knew that was going to be a waste of my time.

    JT wrote: "Why doesn't Matt even attempt to defend his views from rational evaluation anymore?"

    Because he is smarter than me. Ha ha! I know you got that Matt.

  96. JT

    As I said, you are clearly an intelligent man and have brought up reasonable arguments. My problem is the way you present those arguments. You insinuate constantly that anyone following Matt's advice is an idiot who would jump off a cliff if told that it would make us immortal. I'm not the only person here whom gets offended by being spoken to like I'm stupid. You have been allowed to develop your own beliefs without being condemned, please allow others to do the same. We may be a few steps behind you, but we will catch up. I will however remember your warnings and if I develop symptoms I will recall and heed your advice. In the mean time, I am liking the results of drinking OJ ad occasionally eating ice cream. We are all adults here and feel the need to experiment with diet so that we can know for ourselves what works and what doesn't.
    All I ask is that you please stop belittling people who post their experiences on RRARF and Peat.

  97. You have good points; intuitive eating may be a good thing for those recovering from an eating disorder; and intuitive eating may be a bad thing for other people, who follows the principle to the extreme.

    JT never said that "most" people here are sheeples who follows everything that Matt does. What JT did was that he was exaggerating personal anecdotes to prove a point. Every time JT disagrees, JT tries to help people by offering some of his experience, to prove a point.

    It may seem that JT was misrepresenting all 180 followers as "stupid," but he never explicitly said that. It may sound that way to you, but JT was not directing his comments towards all 180 followers. JT is just offering his own ideas and he wishes that a few people would benefit from his comments, just in case that they going in the wrong path.

    I understand how JT's words may offend some people. He may sound like an opportunist, since whenever he finds fault in some idea, he replies by criticizing. It also appears that JT is nit-picking, but what JT is really trying to do is to just offer some alternative perspectives; not to discredit every 180 follower.

    Don't get me wrong. I'm not attacking Joe Blow. In fact, I was upset that people had attacked Joe for being emotional in his first post. Two wrongs do not make a right, and Joe may have some good points. Even if Joe turns out to be mostly wrong, at least some of his ideas may be right. He is right that intuitive eating may be important for some people who are stressed out by an eating disorder.

    JT may seem unclear of who he is directing his comments to. It may appear that JT was directing his comments towards you, so you might be offended. But I don't believe JT was doing this. JT does not think that you are like his sister, even if JT had mentioned it in a specific reply to you. JT is just offering his own ideas, irrelevant who he is replying to.

    Disclaimer: I know I sound angry and repetitive in the post.Just to make sure, there was no evidence that the 80-10-10 Anonymous user was "trolling." Anonymous was just offering his/her opinions on the 80-10-10 diet.

  98. @JB & Princess

    You can check out Matt's Easter post and you will see how it promotes eating sweets liberally. Also check out the comments for previous posts, there are many many many people asking if RRARF is all about eating sugar (vs. starch) now, and many rambling about the benefits of adding sugar. The discussion is all about "sugar," most of the time without any trace of a destinction between refined sugar (what normal people understand by "sugar,") fruit juice, and sugar in whole foods aka fruit (the latter two of which Peatists for some weird reason seem to think equal "sugar.") So it IS very confusing.

    I mean look at Matt's arguments in the video. Stress is bad, so eat junk food freely to lower stress, what kind of nonsense is that? And then he goes to dismiss traditional diets as a source of knowledge about what to eat and what not because the Inuit diet makes the Inuit age more quickly apparently. He takes the diet of an extremely small population who live under extreme conditions in terms of temperature and food supply to dismiss traditional diets as a whole! And what does he recommend instead? Molassis, gelato and French fries?

    In my opinion, intuitive eating doesn't really work in the real world a) because of what has already been mentioned, the inclusion of high-reward junk food in our food supply, b) because a lot of healthy foods are hard to come by if you go to a normal super market or even a health food store, and c) because it's impossible to supply such a wide range of fods for choice at every meal, and d) because people are already predisposed by what they have been told to eat, what they've seen others eat etc. They don't have much of an instinct left.

    Maybe it works if you train hard for it. Maybe.

    JT is right on with his criticism of Matt. I've been waiting for some time for someone to speak up against what's going on on here… And JT's the man for that because he has been on here forever, if Matt is going to listen to anyone it's him.

    Or.. mabye I should just stop reading this blog.

  99. AS, in theory I agree with you, when there is no guilt associated with food, binging tends to stop and you can eat what your body needs, intuitively.

    EXCEPT: For me, the engineering of some foods, like Doritos, just seem to override this. It MAY be that if I gave myself unlimited Doritos forever, I'd tire of them and that would be the end of it. But I just don't think so…I think I'd just crave them all the time.

    I don't think we got overweight as a country because of food guilt.

  100. Jblow & Princess,
    Please don't misunderstand my point, im not calling you stupid sheeple. I think your input & especially your own personal experiences are just as important as mine. Because I am familiar with this way of eating, I'm just trying to provide clarity on what is really being promoted. Matt is not being clear, and I think he may be doing this intentionally and this is not fair to his followers. People with food issues will see what he writes and use it for justification. I would NEVER let my sister read this blog because I know she would interpret everything as a means to justify her food addictions.

    Organism & Hans,
    Thank you for helping to clarify my points. Sometimes my writing style doesnt come across the way I intend and it gets interpreted wrong.

  101. I think it's great that JT plays devils advocate. Someone needs to. It keeps us honest. It makes you really think about things more carefully, avoid group think, and if you need to argue your point you really need to think about why you believe what you're arguing. People should encourage it, not bash it.

    I think you sometimes need certain structures to reach intuitive eating. I know I bring up the ED thing all the time, but I think a lot of people who overeat could benefit from some of the same lessons. My nutritionist made (well encouraged) me to do certain things, like eat 3 meals/day plus a snack. Even if I had binged the night before, I still had to eat breakfast, to get my body back on a proper cycle again. JT is 100% right on that point. There's a lot of evidence behind it, and I watched it work for me personally. I also had to learn to eat treats in moderation, not binging or avoiding them altogether. Balanced meals were important, too. Then you start tuning in more to your body's needs, but it's a process that takes time to develop.

    And I totally agree with Steph that the processed food chemicals mess with your systems. I think they cause cravings and obesity. I watched the Biggest Loser for a couple of seasons, and all of them said they just binged on junk food all the time when they were obese. I have yet to meet a morbidly obese person at the farmers market.

  102. Fascinating stuff..the content and context..From my professional life (web biz) I know that there are always going to be certain 'roles' filled on any forum. The folks that want to express themselves, the folks that want to form consensus with others, and the folks that take a conscious/unconscious pleasure in making others wrong.
    They dont realize they do it, and justify to themselves that they are only being rational. The fabulous thing about these folks, seriously, is that they can show us so much about what needs to be done to have certain successes in life, and in business…

    Anyway, what I heard Matt saying in the parts I watched were that different foods have an effect in and of itself. So it can follow that if it has a specific effect then there is a reason the body will create the mechanism where by the person eats it, to gather the effect..
    and for example, when the body has an emotional stressor, it seeks to bring balance by bringing down the hormones of emotional stress. And following this logic, for example, when the body is under stress from not having enough minerals (there are many kinds of stress the body will seek to compensate for)
    ..from not having enough minerals, a process of chemicals may create movement toward melon for some (my grandmother) or salty pretzels for others (my grandfather.) When the body is closer to balance, the movement wont be toward table sugar to compensate an imbalance (too sweet for the non-toxic system) but it could form intent for it with an emotional component, thus creating a reason to have it (celebration! birthday! yahoo! joy!)

    There are so many reasons we do what we do. What we choose to eat, consciously or not, is no different than any other behavior we engage in, with the mind and body being a continuum. Its a delusion to think that these are two, which is why the argument of the 'pure rational' always amuses me. The human mind can be 'purely' logical, as defined mathematically, but even in this we must take into conscious consideration that our ability to deceive ourselves is one of our greatest strengths, needed in evolution. But thats another subject.

    I think the reason I like reading the material of Matt and others here is because the complexity is being faced openly and honestly, and our ongoing ignorance in that complexity is being faced bravely, with humor. We may know what a body would run on perfectly if it were a machine, and yet its not, were not, and there are more stories in heaven and earth than dreamt of in…any single philosophy.
    (Dreamt spelled with a t for Elizabethan respect..)

  103. One thing on the multitude of food choices…

    I noticed something when looking at super-centenarians and that is they are creatures of habit. They eat their food "with olive oil all the time", they either "never drink" or they "drink port wine every day". They eat a "kilo of chocolate every week", etc., etc. Perhaps it is not the diet but rather a consistency that allows the body to adapt. My wife's grandfather started smoking when he was like 6 years old (he would pick up the butts that the grownups would throw away and smoke the rest of it…ewwww) and he lived to his late 80's and was in really good health. My great aunt lived to her 90's and my mom told me that she ate one egg with a piece of toast for breakfast every morning.

    I'm thinking that if you have a relatively decent diet (not complete junk, not overly restrictive of any macronutrient, contains a decent amount of vitamins and minerals) that you stick with, you should be in really good shape for the most part.

  104. Caliopurr–thanks for sharing your thoughts: I loved your post, both the aesthetic of it and the general synthesis of the ideas Matt's presenting.

    A consensus-seeker who loves the idea that everyone can have what they want and that the same message has multiple ramifications in the eye of each beholder.

  105. Hey Ela, thanks.
    And your thought about ramifications varying depending on the individual is part of that enormous complexity that keeps us living in a sort of 'not-knowing' much at all, isnt it? Being able to find the right words to portray a concept feels great in our own mind/body, and then we find that there are as many interpretations of what we've said as there are people to hear them! HA! So much for 'understanding' each other. Its really more of an approximation. I like the metaphor of flying a jet, that the plane is 90+% of the time 'off-course' with constant corrections. Or the martial arts Master who tells the student,'Im off balance all the time, I just correct faster than you'.
    Grasping this concept I have found to be ironically liberating and freeing. Its the kind of feeling I get when I look at a laughing Buddha, like maybe he's laughing at this too…So much for getting it "right!"

  106. Very interesting, particularly the last bit about intuitive eating.

    When I reflect on all my big periods of weight gain, they all corresponded with a time of great stress in my life. It's never occurred to me in all these years that maybe it was the stress that caused it and the reaction to the food that I was eating, rather than the food itself.

    If nothing else, this is really important in making people stop beating themselves up about their fatness (which only makes things worse).

    Excellent, excellent post!

  107. The Real Will,

    If that's true, Matt doesn't have much longer with us. :)


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