Well boys and girls, the time has come. In a matter of weeks I will be releasing an eBook entitled 12 Paleo Myths. I don’t mean to single out this diet and pick on the poor little fella, because I could easily write a book called 12 Vegan Myths, 12 Low Fat Myths, The Weight Watchers Myth, 12 Low-Carb Myths, and so on. But the Paleo diet seems to be the one gaining the most steam in the alternative nutrition world at the moment. And if there’s one thing that drives me nuts about Paleo or any diet it is the blind infatuation of the leaders and followers of the movement. This infatuation needs some counterbalancing, and, more importantly, there needs to be a strong source of information about it for those who are struggling on it and thinking they are struggling simply because they aren’t trying hard enough. Damn that 1 bagel I had back in 2009!!
Plus, I would like to straighten out certain things about the diet so that if you were to be eating a grain and dairy free diet, you wouldn’t simultaneously be carbophobic – which is the primary kiss of death for most of those who fail on it. Of course a Paleo diet doesn’t have to be low in carbohydrates. I know that. I recognize that. But I consider the primary leaders of the Paleo Diet movement to be Robb Wolf, Mark Sisson, and Art De Vany. And they are all spreading the same scientific saber-toothed Ligers (the mythical beast shown above) about carbohydrates and insulin. The book is not even meant to be a slam on the Paleo diet (which has a ton of virtues), but more of a reality check about certain wings of the Paleo movement that are broken and featherless. I want to take these broken wings and learn to fly again.
What I would like from you guys, is as many detailed stories about your experiences as possible to be included in the book – with your name shown or left anonymous (your preference). I say “detailed” because if they aren’t, we’re going to have a bunch of stories that sound the same, like this generic Paleo Fail story that I just made up…
“Dude I felt awesome and had so much energy and lost weight and my skin got clear and all my health problems improved… And 6 months later my energy and sex drive started to plummet, I was cold all the time – especially my hands and feet, I became phobic about eating any carbs and went even lower in carbs – this was a nightmare that went on for two entire years! And my health problems started to all come back with new ones along with it. And the weight started to creep back on again. Finally I started eating carbs again. At first I felt awful, hypoglycemic, and bloated with crazy hunger – and my skin broke out with tons of pimples. But I noticed feeling warmer and my sex drive coming back so I pressed on. And thank God I did. After a few months I feel like my old self again. And I’m leaner and more muscular than I was eating just 30 grams of carbs per day – even eating pizza and drinking soda! Finally got my life back. You rock Matt Stone!”
So yes, give me excruciating details about specific health problems. I want to hear about the psychological entrapment of the ideology. I want to hear about social anxiety of going to a restaurant with friends. I want it all. I wanna hear about how gluten used to give you problems, but doesn’t anymore. Whatever you wanna share.
And I want it written with your intended audience in mind. That intended audience will be someone who is probably doing the Paleo Diet, and struggling just enough to be curious about this book. I want them to be able to relate to your stories, and see that there may be another way. I want you to address the readers personally and remind them that you can relate to what they are feeling and how they are thinking. Think about what you needed to hear back when you were doing it to get you to a better place.
It can be as short as a paragraph or long-winded – as in several pages. I will probably publish them all. And it’s important that I get a lot in the book. I don’t want people to get the sense that there are a few anomalies – probably people who just weren’t “doing it right.” I want people to see just how common this scenario plays out. And while most of the physical problems you may have experienced were from restricting carbohydrates, if the popular Paleo books and websites in any way influenced your diet and beliefs about what you should and shouldn’t be eating – it’s fair game.
And hurry. I don’t wanna give you a month to do it or you will take a month to do it. My birthday is February 6th. You can send me these as a birthday gift! Or, in the words of Arnold… “Do it now!”
You can post them in comments below if you don’t mind them being public in the book. If not, send me an email, subject: Paleo Fail, at sacredself@gmail.com
If you are new to the site and would like to read some of the Paleo/Low-carb criticism that has been published before, read…
Paleo Fail and Catecholamine Honeymoon
” Put that Cookie down! Now ! ” ( Arnold on Paleo)
Arnold: I have a headache
Matt: Low-carb diets will do that
Arnold: But eating carbs will make me fat and diabetic
Matt: Maybe it’s just a rumor.
Arnold: It’s nadda rummah!!!
Hehe…love that movie!
Your paleo fairy tale pretty much sums it up.
I sent you mine already…hope it’s useful!
I followed the Mark Sisson primal/paleo regime for about 2 years. In the beginning I lost 25 pounds and felt great. I thought I’d found the “right” way to live. It took about 8 months for things to start going wrong. I started getting head colds. My energy and mood sucked. At first I just wrote it off as the typical winter cold. Unfortunately it blossomed into a full blow sinus infection that I struggled with off an on for an entire semester. Things deteriorated from there. I became cranky, irritable, and prone to fits of anger. For the first time in my life I began experiencing panic attacks. Everyday stresses became overwhelming. My sleep suffered tremendously. This was perhaps the most damaging part of low-carb paleo for me. I wouldn’t sleep for days at a time, and if I did sleep it was only for an hour or two. The insomnia and stress took its toll on my health. I went from 170 lbs to 195. My hair began thinning rapidly and my skin blemished. Finally, my brother convinced me to look into a few blogs, including Matt’s 180 Degree Health and Stephen Guyenet’s Whole Health Source. I read Matt’s ebook on Diet Recovery and was relieved to find that my experience with paleo wasn’t uncommon. I stopped fearing carbs started eating potatoes, bread, and rice and took a break from exercise. I’ve noticed gradual improvements ever since. My skin is clearer, my sleep is more regular, and I’m back to being an easy-going guy again. My fiance calls me a space-heater because I’m putting off so much heat at times. Its not perfect though, I still struggle with insomnia and stress. Most nights I need two slices of white bread just to fall asleep.But things look better than they have in a long time. Thanks Matt
Andrew,
Our stories are similar. I found my sleeping was bad because of food cravings…I would be up all night tossing and turning over the most mundane things, like the bag of chips that was on the counter or the two pieces of leftover pizza in the refrigerator.
Wow. This seems like the biggest attention grabbing waste of time.
Let’s build up a strawman and attack low-carbish Paleo. You even said you understand paleo isn’t necessarily low-carb (see: ketogenic?), but you’re going to do it anyway.
I think I’m probably going to un-RSS this blog soon. Seems to petty lately.
I would, however, like to see something constructive come from your whole “abandonment”. You know, like some evidence that what you’re doing now is a good idea. Maybe some pictures, meal plans, and numbers?
My goal is not entertaining you. That is a waste of time. My goal is to grab the attention of others who only hear how great Paleo is but don’t hear about the many ways in which you can muck it up. And do serious damage. It’s not an attack either. I hope I actually contribute, like I have already, to Paleo becoming better.
So you’re attacking low-carb, which is perfectly legit. Then why are you lumping it into Paleo? Why not dismiss the whole “paleo = low carb” myth instead of apparently calling the Paleo approach a “myth”? Your approach here feels incredibly dishonest, especially when you agree in your post that paleo doesn’t necessarily mean low-carb.
You claim that the big paleo advocates are anti-carb, and seems that most of your readers agree with that sentiment. What do you classify low-carb?
I have been eating 100-200g of starch a day and feel great. I’m not ketogenic, but I am “low-carb” according to USDA and FDA recommendations.
Yeah, I ahve to agree with Reader. I mean, I follow Robb Wolf pretty closely and I don’t recall him saying that low-carb is the way to go, all the way. I believe Sisson is pretty similar — the idea is to keep your carbs away from grains and use what your body needs. So if you’re obese, you prob need to pull back. If you’re active, you need to ramp up. As far as Art Devany, who listens to him? Let’s go in the Way Back machine to 2001. All the bloggers that covered the Ancesteral Health Symposium stepped WAAAAAYYY back from Boyd Eaton (Art’s cohort).
Look, it sounds like you’re going to Paleohacks and using your average knuckle-head as your “expert”. But what about Melissa McEwan? Or Denise Minger? Or Stephen Guyanet? AND the real Robb Wolf?
It might help if you clarified what you’re “diet” (or lifestyle or eating orwhatever) is. Because I’ve been folowwing you and I’m totally confused — now NOTHING makes you fat? EVERYTHING is ok? Just eat a bunch and get your body temp up, right? So how do obese people get obese in the 1st place?
Look, I’m not trying to poke you, I really am confused about what you’re talking about. It feels like with you we’re back to square 1 — you’ve concluded that sugar and carbs and grain and fat anx, y, and z are all, actually, ok. So what IS making people fat? Pretty please, clear this matter up. And don’t talk to me about urine. Because people were thin before there were refractometers…
Is it maybe MSG (or the many sources of free glutamate added to processed foods)?
“In hundreds of studies around the world,
scientists were creating
obese mice and rats to use in diet or
diabetes test studies. No strain of
rat or mice is naturally obese, so
scientists have to create them. They
make these creatures morbidly obese by
injecting them with MSG when they are
first born.
The MSG triples the amount of insulin
the pancreas creates, causing
rats(and perhaps humans) to become
obese. They even have a name for the
fat rodents they create: “MSG-Treated
Rats.”
One such study is…
The monosodium glutamate (MSG) obese rat as a model for the study of exercise in obesity. Gobatto CA, Mello MA, Souza CT, Ribeiro IA. Res Commun Mol Pathol Pharmacol. 2002
There are more if you care to dig a bit.
Matt, I think you’re missing one key piece of information- where in the paleo diet does it say that it is ‘low carb’? Last time I checked, fruits and vegetables were still permitted as a part of that diet, and fruits are just as high in carbohydrates as grain products. The advantage to fruit vs grain is that the fruit will digest much faster than grain will, and the nutritional value of fruit is exponentially greater than grain. There are very few antioxidants in a slice of bread. In this entire website I don’t see one piece of scientific data backing your claim. I read one of the threads where a guy was on the paleo diet then introduced the idea of intermitent fasting then surprisingly got sick. WELL NO KIDDING YOU GOT SICK. Intermitent fasting is not something that should be done a lot, or for long periods of time- or even at all for that matter. How much research has gone into your work? Where Mark Sisson gets it right, is that it is a ‘Lifestyle’ not a diet. It is more than just eating like a caveman, it’s exercising like one too. The reason why you even have a following is because all of these people treated the paleo diet like a band-aid. They put the band-aid on the cut until it healed then stopped doing it. Then they went back to their bad habits and surprisingly enough they got fat or ill. This is not something that you stop doing. Then you suggest that brain function decreases with lack of carbohydrates? Do you have documented proof of that? I could find you articles that state the exact opposite of that in that insulin swings brought on by consumption of grains inhibit memory. I’m reading the thread above what I’m writing now and he’s got it right- its not the diet that failed its YOU that failed. What you fail to understand is that there are social factors that push people to unhealthy habits. Personally, I start discrediting any diet regimine by anyone that suggests the consumption of grains as part of a ‘healthy’ lifestyle. Their information is still stuck in the era that created the food pyramid, or they have their hand in ag’s back pocket. So, Mr. Stone, if you have credible scientifc data to back up your position I would enjoy reading it. I like getting both sides to an argument before making an informed decision, but I have yet to find anything supporting your claim.
Woohoo! Great reply! I agree with you 100%.
Whatever dude… Matt said “The book is not even meant to be a slam on the Paleo diet (which has a ton of virtues), but more of a reality check about certain wings of the Paleo movement that are broken and featherless.”
He’s collecting stories so that when other people struggling with Paleo read them, they’ll realize they’re not “doing Paleo wrong,” and therefore be more open to reassessing what does and does not have any solid basis.
All while titling the compilation “Paleo Diet Myth”. It’s not a corrective approach, it’s an attack on the Paleo concept disguised as trying to help people who aren’t adjusting their diet to their body’s needs.
This is an antagonist, attention grabbing approach. I agree that not everyone should do a ketogenic paleo diet, and Matt agrees that paleo does not equal low-carb, but he’s building a straw man by arguing against the low-carb paleo approach as THE paleo diet.
Am I the only one mystified by the double think?
“a reality check about certain wings of the Paleo movement that are broken and featherless.”
“the Paleo diet (which has a ton of virtues)”
“Of course a Paleo diet doesn’t have to be low in carbohydrates. I know that. I recognize that.”
“He’s collecting stories so that when other people struggling with Paleo read them, they’ll realize they’re not “doing Paleo wrong,””
Maybe i am wrong but reading these bits i get the idea that “they” are “doing Paleo wrong”.
If a paleo diet doesn’t have to be low carb and they are not doing well eating low carb then not eating carbs (or eating to little) probably is not the right thing to do.
But he’s not just collecting stories — he’s pulling names — Robb WOlf, Mark Sisson — and making blanket statements and inciting fear. All, to be frank, make a name for himself. Matt likes to do this thing where he talks out of both sides of his mouth: “I’m not slamming Paleo, but these guys can kill you”. Sorry, but dude, you sound like that idiot kid that no one pays attention to so you start fights and scream…
If you really want to critique, then pretty please, with sugar on top, outline your diet lifestyle better. Make it clear. And sorry, that RBTI shit is too close to an art form. Prove to me that it’s different than that other quackery – metabolic typing.
You either:
1. Didn’t bother to even read the post
2. Are Mark Sission
3. Both 1 and 2
:)
Wow, you 180 people are every bit as brainwashed and willing to blindly follow your leader Matt as the low-carb folks. Jeesh, guys…
This is unbelievable – I ended up here thinking this was an educated place to get an opposing view on Paleo, and it turns out it’s just another group of folks trying to promote the “Paleo ain’t right” mentality. Regardless of the nonsense that can be found on this site, the diet works for a ton of people who have a ton of issues that conventional diets have not addressed. Most hardcore folks in the Paleo community will say it’s not a diet, its a lifestyle. That’s what it is. Diets don’t work, changes in lifestyle do. That’s why Atkins was such a joke – works really well in the short term, but provides no long term solution. I have been 100% paleo for 3 years, have no ill effects, lost 20% body fat, 100lbs, gained about 12lbs of muscle, and there is not a single part of my life that is not better. I sleep better, have better sex, way more energy throughout the day, never crave food (because I eat when I’m hungry, this belief of “starbing” yourself is ridiculous), never have stomachaches or any other GI issue. For those that say it doesn’t work, or hasn’t worked that well for them, it’s because you are lying to yourself. You never really tried. You cheated, and you know it – you never gave yourself a clean 30 days of trying it out, so how can you determine that it doesn’t work?? I have helped many people on this diet, and the ones that say it doesn’t work are the ones who could never accept giving up grains to begin with. Oh, and I’m a chef who grew up in a first generation Italian American household – grains were a STAPLE of my diet growing up, and I don’t miss them at all………..
This sounds like many vegan testimonials I have read. Or what people who took up jogging have experienced.
That doesn’t mean that those pursuits, as well as Paleo, don’t have collateral damage. You can see everywhere that I have written that I am not trying to negate the benefits that Paleo has given to many people, but rather throwing out lifelines to those who are seriously struggling and having tons of problems – particularly lean, young people with higher metabolic needs than those coming into Paleo 100 pounds heavier than they could be.
Anyway, thanks for you input nonetheless. Most of the crowd here definitely is NOT the bunch who weren’t dedicated enough. A lot of what I write is to help loosen people up, as the typical person that has gravitated here resonated with the site in the first place because they were afraid to eat ANYTHING after all the health fanatical phases they had been through.
You sound undercarbed.
Well, I notice I don’t feel and perform as well when I go above 200g a day. But maybe I should just shovel down some bird feed and skip out on my steak. Only so much room in my stomach.
Paleo is a great corrective diet and a poor long term diet. Robb Wolfes answer to everything from constipation to poor workout recovery seems to be “eat more yams and sweet potatoes”…fuck that. My story is pretty much like your summary.
http://youtu.be/YT_KX-gff4o
Sweet video.
Better title….”The Paleo Delusion”
will get more attention = will sell more = will educate more people = will save the planet
also consider publishing it on amazon as kindle download so it reaches a wider audience and is linked when people browse mainstream paleo books
I second both of apex’s ideas
That is very likely to be the title now :)
“6 months to look, feel, and perform worse.”
“The Paleo Diet: Because We All Know Caveman Would Rather Have Starved Than Eat a Tuber.”
“It’s not a tuber!!” ;)
Hey Matt, I already sent you an email of my experience (email subject: Low carb wars, thyroids and the biological eco-system). It would be great to have my experience published – would you like more info on my situation I wonder?
There’s a fair amount of info around regarding weight loss, however my focus is understanding the biological system for optimum health and a new found interest. Not that I feel hyper-anxious about my health after my issues as one may assume, but rather, since my illness experiences, I’ve come to understand the mechanisms of the body fascinating from an eco-system perspective; the way this magnificent machine works, is a thing of true beauty and wonderment.
Further to my email, I’d like to add here, I remember also from the forum from where I was receiving the recommendations for paleo diet something that may be of interest:
When introducing a dietary carb reduction along the path leading to paleo, the cravings one may experience for bread (and carbs in general?) – including pounding headaches – are attributed to an addiction withdrawal to the natural opiates found in wheat (and grain?) products. The idea being that the masses are maintained in a state of sedation from a diet so heavily founded in wheat products that contain these natural opiates. This being introduced way back in the agricultural period, and not by any accident. A bit like the flouride phenomena ;)
Would be interested to hear your thoughts on that! As well as any thoughts/info on whether opiates in wheat holds any merit, and what affect it may have us.
I’d like to know too, if you are familiar with a book titled The Vegetarian Myth? It’s one that turned me from a 20 year vegetarian to paleo. Loos like I’ve swung too far and need to swing back a little.
I’m now going to have a look around your site to discover if you have thoughts/research on vegetariansm and dairy products :)
Thanks!
Yes. Read the Vegetarian Myth. Typical Nazi extremist bullshit from someone that is wacked out of their mind. But it counters Vegan Nazi extremist bullshit from a bunch of people out of their minds so it serves an important purpose.
It’s okay to swing a little too far towards meat in the beginning. I did too and it was highly therapeutic. I think one theme of Paleo success stories is that the primary advocates that were coming from vegetarianism when they found the Paleo diet. It’s powerful medicine. For a while. But that which helps to counterbalance doesn’t always maintain balance.
“But that which helps to counterbalance doesn’t always maintain balance”
Good point.
After a wealth of health problems and doctors recommendations I left 8 years of 80/10/10 in November. Prior to that I was vegan, before that a pescatarian and have been a vegetarian for over twenty years.
I’ve had to start eating fish and eggs again and must confess that the paleo diet seemed appealing. I know I need to make changes but with so much conflicting advice I’m at a loss to know what to do for the best,
How does one maintain balance?
Peace x
Humans were definitely cultivating grains prior to the advent of widespread agriculture or it would not have had the opportunity to become a major agricultural crop. You would have a hard time proving paleolithic humans, or even neanderthals did not consume grains in some fashion.
The advent of agriculture was not a desirable option for those cultures that embarked on it but a sup-optimal choice based on necessity.
I think addictiveness of things like grains, sugar, alcohol, and so forth have a lot more to do with the overall physiological and mental state of health. I find it to be a pretty big stretch of the imagination to say the powers that be were naturally selecting opiate producing foods and this power balance has maintained itself for the approximately 10,000 years of agriculture across national, political, and religious boundaries. I mean, correct me if I’m wrong, but it sounds like that’s what you are implying.
I just realized I made an argument that GRAINS ARE PALEO. I have three sources for this.
First, listen to Chris Masterjohn’s interview on the Wide World of Health. Listen from 21:00 to 22:00 where he addresses the issue of cereal grains in the paleolithic specifically.
http://blog.cholesterol-and-health.com/2011/09/my-wide-world-of-health-podcast-with.html
Second, check out a book called The Time Before History by Colin Tudge. It has an entire chapter on the evolution of farming. The evidence is fairly strong we were cultivating grains (and other crops) long before being forced into widespread agriculture.
Third, check out the book Clan of the Cave Bear. It’s a fictional account of a lost human child that gets picked up by a group of neanderthals. Although it’s an account of fictitious events, Jean Auel did some heavy research to provide historical accuracy. Although there was not a high consumption of grains, the neanderthals did do things like add grain porridges to soup broths or bake millet cakes, etc.
That’s a bit like claiming that cavemen ate dirt (and they did of course, the bits that stuck to their food), so, “Dirt is paleo”… talk about missing the forrest for the trees.
~Huntress
You are correct, that is the implication. Sounds far out I know, but that is an idea being explored.
I’ll check out your books (referenced below), thanks!
HI again,
I’m a dick, I got it all wrong.
The site doesn’t advocate no carbs at all, their rule is: rice, pasta, bread=gluten, wheat=opiates, so their solution for carbs is buckwheat, millet and quinoa, and wild rice is preferred to brown rice.
My apologies.
Here’s a gift to make up http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rhQVRPIHAt4
I would prefer wild rice to brown rice as well, except it’s super f*cking expensive. At least in MN.
it’s free in MN, if your willing to get in a canoe and go get some :)
Hangin’ tough, stayin’ hungry with the eye of the Liger…
Can’t wait for the eBook! :)
It will be worth it just to read the first story I received since posting it. Wow it’s hilarious.
Can this be about low carb? I never did Paelo specifically, but did do low carb.
Most of the book will be slamming low-carb, not Paleo specifically. But only because the high priests of Paleo are all super negative about carbs. Anyone reading their books will be highly influenced by the negative carb talk – and often take it overboard. “If carbs are bad, then none would make me the healthiest person ever!!”
I will be including most of the “Starch Lowers Insulin” post with your improvement in insulin resistance by adding carbohydrates. If you want me to add more, just send something my way. I would love to have as much as I can get.
None put my body temperature in the shiver zone, put two pounds of fat on my body, and made my heart race. That was just in two weeks. I don’t think that excess carb works for me, but that ‘induction’ garbage was a very bad idea and lead to a kidney infection, kidney stones, and a course of antibiotics that in turn lead to 2 years of IBS hell, and nearly killed me.
Why is it that a balanced diet is somehow weird these days? Don’t get me wrong, I would never ever go back to the hell called a low fat diet, but, man that super low carb stuff was bunk. How was I supposed to run around the block away from that saber tooth tiger if I didn’t have the fuel in my body to skedaddle?
High-carb or low-carb, humans that ran from saber-toothed tigers went extinct.
Oh snap!
Have a look at those:
http://thorfalk.wordpress.com/2011/04/15/arrhythmia-heart-palpitations-ketosis-and-low-carb-diet/
http://thorfalk.wordpress.com/2011/11/14/arrhythmia-heart-palpitations-ketosis-and-low-carb-diet-an-update/
I get a steady referral from search engines with terms like “low carb palpitations”, “ketosis arrhythmia” and the like
Feel free to quote me
I also got palpitations which I called rapid heart beat, which usually occured in the middle of the night, while doing low carb. My heart would go back to normal with just a spoonful of honey. So even though I was told I was a protein type ‘fast oxidizer’ and should keep carbs low I really don’t think its good for my heart! I am doing fine on a very carb heavy diet right now.
Typical middle of the night sugar crash.
I have become such a fan of yours Matt Stone! Thank-you for what you do!
Whatever you do, don’t ignore that symptom, because when your sugar does crash (further, I was able to do that.) you may feel a sudden flash of heat and then experience seizures (I used to.) My favorite remedy was tapioca pudding, but not everybody likes that. Its a great combination of starch and sugar, very easy to digest.
I’m Paleo/Primal and curious to see what comes of this book. Looking forward to it. I try to be open minded to criticisms to avoid falling prey to confirmation bias. Been paleo for a couple years now and no negative side effects. I wonder what the “Paleo-fails” ate?
Funny…most of the Paleo people immediatley assume those that failed on the diet weren’t eating correctly. I was eating only “Paleo-approved” things and spent a fortune on only grass-fed meats, raw organic nuts and seeds, cage free eggs, etc., and had a great time of it at first…then ran into most of the issues cited by many users on here. Eating natural carbs again from rice, corn, and potatoes totally saved me…getting my body temperature back up was huge. Glad you are open-minded to reading opposing opinions though! Such opinions are always appreciated!
From reading these comments, it looks like you have an audience. But why slam people who are sincerely trying to help? Why not just provide the help that’s needed without slamming and getting negative. Yeah, negative press makes more money. Is that really what you’re doing? Your title, though attention getting, sounds misleading to me. It should be the “Dangers of Low Carb.” Since eating the Paleo way is such a simple guideline ()no grain, no dairy), people still need to eat in a healthy way with the allowable food choices. You have certainly helped with that. I hope you stay a ‘constructive’ course, helping others, without muddying the waters.
I am a huge fan of negativity and skepticism. But I never put that out without also acknowledging the benefits and showing that I am thinking about things in a level-headed manner. In other words, balanced thinking. And I think it’s very constructive to dethrone various dietary dieties.
nice pun – dieties instead of deities. you are appreciated.
I try.
Dude you gotta make up your own nutritional certification courses. I want to someday be able to consult with people and help them out. Like a buddy at work who is 61 is overweight but mostly has a pot belly, he has high blood pressure and is told to avoid salt. He drinks juice when he feels ill from the high blood pressure I guess. Or my mother who is physically, and mentally ill, has a bagillion health problems, takes a bagillion pills, severe depression, sleep apnea, diabetes, bipolar, herniated disks, degenerative disk disease, arthritis, hidradenitis (most disgusting thing EVER) the list goes on. I have no idea what to tell my buddy at work, and after all I’ve read I’m retarded. LOL
Considering that evolutionary biology (Paleo) is an ongoing, ever-changing, and relatively new field of research, wouldn’t it be more appropriate to title the book “The Dangers of Paleo Dogmas”, or something along those lines? I only say this because many of the myths I imagine you’re going to attack have been retracted by many of the people who – with good intentions – proposed them in the first place, or have been since obliterated by a fellow colleague. Mark Sisson has spoken a number of times on the benefits of high-carb overfeeding and Robb Wolf has admitted on at least a half-dozen pod-casts that his original “low-carb” recommendations were highly over-prescribed and has since changed his opinion. Kris Kresser, who seems to be the ultimate voice of reason in all of this, constantly reminds his readers/listeners that there is no such thing as a one-size-fits-all diet and that what is optimum for someone can change on a yearly, monthly, or even weekly basis. And let’s not forget the royal – and much needed- smack-down Guyenet gave to Taubes last year. This isn’t anything new though; it’s what happens in any scientific community, especially one as young as this. Old ideas are debunked and replaced with new ones and so on. That’s how progress is made.
However, it seems the real problem lies with many of the followers in the Paleo community, in that they either a) lack the objectivity to monitor their nutrition and make the necessary changes when things start to go awry, or b) become self-proclaimed experts, get on forums and start preaching “Paleo Gospel” to a bunch of people who may not have the same results, chastising them for “not doing it right” when they do. Another obvious problem seems to be context. People have a very difficult time differentiating between others and themselves i.e. just because an aggressive low-cal PSMF worked for a morbidly obese women doesn’t mean someone dieting for the last 6 months and who is trying to drop those last five pounds should try the same protocol. Perhaps these “leaders” need to be a bit more specific when discussing dietary protocols and their proposed results, but then again, if people weren’t so goddamn lazy and actually looked into some of the research on their own, we wouldn’t be having this problem in the first place.
But I digress.
The Paleo Movement is sadly not immune to dogmas and god-complexes that plague other research-driven disciplines, but rather than attack the movement itself, which at it’s core (avoid toxins, get good sleep, play, exercise smart etc.) is head and shoulders above any other current nutritional ideology, I hope that you make this e-book a research-supported deconstruction of the various “Paleoisms” that are flat-out incorrect, only applicable in very specific situation etc, or are quite ambiguous etc. If it’s just a bunch of straw-men arguments and n=1 quotes from people who happened to get sick while eating Paleo, then no one will take you seriously (they shouldn’t) and you won’t be adding anything of value to the discussion. No one cares if someone dropped dairy and then got cold hands and feet the next week if you can’t show them the mechanism(s) for WHY that happened. Anything else will just be a coincidence.
As Frank Kotsonis said: “The plural of anecdote is not data.”
If by “no one” taking me seriously you mean the heads of the Paleo movement, then you are probably right. And I’m not really looking to add to any discussion. But I will be taken seriously by many readers who hear exactly what they’re going through repeated again and again by several people as if that type of outcome is virtually guaranteed. Then what they thought was so sound and infallible won’t seem that way anymore, and the book will have served its purpose.
I like that there is great flexibility in the movement. I have a problem with the fact that there is a movement and it has a name and is based on wacky speculations about what people that may or may not have had health may or may not have eaten. I have a problem with the entire system on which people base their eating decisions on. Because among non-poisonous foods there really are no healthy or unhealthy foods.
I’m sick of much of this sciency bullshit to be honest with you. I think it has been a huge step in the wrong direction for the most part, as it is always short-sighted and taken out of context. I hope that my books continue to contain fewer and fewer strict scientific arguments. There are too many variables and too many moving parts.
Your books and posts already lack strict scientific arguments, so I think you are on the right path! It’s certainly very entertaining. Will I have to pee on anything with this new ebook? Can I print it out and pee on it while eating ice cream and drinking orange juice? That would be awesome. :)
Still LingOL. Really. :-))
Hey Matt,
I sense a bit of frustration with the subject of dietary dogma et al? Can’t blame you my friend, since I allowed myself to be victimized by this for 8 long years- in my case the whole raw vegan elite dogma/ programming. This resulting in testosterone lost, major knee joint pains, fungal condition, loss of muscle tone and desire to exercise. Almost went on the low carb Paleo route fully with blinders again, but wisdom and my daughter kicked in:)
So I understand the frustration, share it to an extent, and feel liberated and happier than ever now that it not only doesn’t define me, but I’m so beyond it. I feel I can finally help a ton more people now with my business than ever, and there is definitely a huge place for ebooks and other works like the one you’re abou to share.
You have my support and keep it coming. If I can ever help collaborate on the wole vegan, raw foodist or any macro nutrient vilifying program- which I’ve gone through all those roads as well, let me know. I’ll be happy to send out insights into any of these areas as long as it helps peeps:) take care brother
“I’m sick of much of this sciency bullshit to be honest with you. I think it has been a huge step in the wrong direction for the most part, as it is always short-sighted and taken out of context.”
THAT is exactly what this whole diet / health / exercise community needs. And that’s why I love to read your thoughts, Matt Stone.
Every health blogger says that you have to be careful about studies, that you can prove anything with everything. And what do they do? Bringing up studies. I’m so sick of that.
Keep up the good work, and show those Paleo nerds the realistic loss.
I think that as the Paleo movement wises up to a few things, such as the fact grains were consumed during the paleolithic, and that evolution, in certain contexts, can occur much quicker than 10,000 years, it will eventually be forced to dissolve. They have already given up their stance on low-carb, and they will at some point have to acknowledge certain ethnic groups are adapted towards milk and dairy. Once you say that there is no one size fits all diet, I don’t know what’s left for them to recommend.
paleo is just a marketing gimmick and because the concept never held up it had to evolve. when it started it was basically eating like an inuit, that wont last long in new york city, eating like an inuit only is optimal if your living like an inuit.
alot of science arguments are backed by studies that were funded by such and such interest group that doesn’t care about truth only keeping profits high and the same academics in power. The real science will come from the internet creating freedom for ideas to be collectively elaborated on. thats why paleo quickly has to adapt as people point out it’s trivial nature as fads die quickly in the internet age.
it will slowly “advance” to a point it wont even be “paleo” anymore. it’ll simple be silly to label it paleo when it becomes : eating and working out sensibly in the modern world. no marketing ploy to capitalize there.
It’s sad to see people ” hunting” in grocery stores for paleo friendly meals but could not gut a deer if I handed them a knife, the whole premise is silly. have any of these guys lived remotely off the grid? I’m sure they would quickly realize grok would have loved to eat some ice cream and would not have been any fatter or become more susceptible to Caveman Aids from doing so.
I’ll challenge any of the paleo “masters” to a show me what you can do with ten trainees.
give me the same 5 rail thin weaklings and 5 chubsters that can’t get off the coach by themselves and 3 months, I’ll outdo their results with junk foods, fast food and buffets while their miserable trainees eat authentic wooly mammoth burgers ( no bunslol) ferns salad and seasonal berries all while complaining of being cold and tired.
Chief, I love your rap song. You are so gansta yo. :-) deb
Which one? Got like over 30 released over the years
the one on your site dude hard core girls on the res are pretty :-)
thanks Deb, I’ll send you some if you want em.
That’s exactly what pisses me off about Paleo. Instead of having a discussion about how to eat and live sensibly we now have to grade everything against some fictitious Paleolithic ideal – despite the fact that modern humans are really physically and psychologically ill-adapted to eating such a sparse, shitty diet. What’s sad is that Paleo people think cavemen were like Shannon Sharpe, and that eating grassfed beef and berries you can obtain that type of physiological superiority. Every human is hardwired to recognize ice cream as superior to grubs, greens, and rubbery steak. Which is why humans ditched the Paleo diet the moment they could do better for themselves.
exactly ! eat an live sensibly with the best of everything available not a restriction to only what can be hunted and gathered with a time machine.
Ha ha ha ha ha ha!!!
Yes Matt, ALL steak tastes like RUBBER. That’s right.
And all humans recognize that ice cream is superior. Ice cream doesn’t make you fat. And the co-founder of Baskin Robbins died of a heart attack from eating rubbery steak, not because he sampled too much of his ice cream.
Your comments are so absurd. I can’t understand how anyone takes you seriously.
But you’re hilarious. Keep making your silly comments.
“give me the same 5 rail thin weaklings and 5 chubsters” I want your and Matts brain to be integrated with mine. I want to be able to train those people like you would! Maybe someday I will =) What do I read! I don’t have native americans or smart people in my family haha. I used to want to take the Functional Diagnostic Nutrition certification classes that Sean Croxton promotes. It probably has some merit, though. And where the hell are those Sumo blog posts damnitt. haha just kiddin Chief master.
Blackbird singing in the dead of night….
I think this is a great idea Matt. When I was doing the Primal Diet with AV it was being alerted that there was a specific group on Yahoo called AV Skeptics (ie something specifically opposing my current diet) that I started reading which eventually lead me to stop the diet and then eventually lead me to you.
Have you seen Darrin Carlson’s Five Failings of Paleo? http://leanmeanvirilemachine.com/2011/10/14/the-five-failings-of-paleo/ Some of this has definitely been tackled.
Wow, that’s a superb article! Bookmarked!
Another source that recognizes human evolution occurs on faster time-scales than 10,000 years. I would’ve suggested people read The Red Queen by Matt Ridley, but that’s way too dense for a simple argument about Paleo.
Another superb point in that article is #2: “There is no ONE Paleo Diet.” Translation, the whole point of our species is adaptability. That means we can live in any environment, any climate, and find the foods and the means necessary to survive there. We are practically the only species that can do this, so we are necessarily omnivorous and are necessarily able to handle a wide range of foods.
I wish I could give you a complete story but I’m just a month or two in from stepping away from strict Primal. The PB didn’t give me huge relief from health problems because I didn’t have any. I was just fat, and actually the first 60 of the 90 total pounds I lost came off in a little less than 2 years of eating less fat and sugar and exercising more, with the next 20 coming off over the next year on the PB and the final 10 slowly disappearing over the last, what, 5? I still have a jiggly gut. Meanwhile I’d see before-and-after photos of a diabetic Santa Claus-looking guy turning into some ripped lumberjack and wonder what I was doing wrong. I narrowed it down to not doing enough burpees, and immediately dismissed the idea as nonsense.
I can tell you that restrictive eating just meant a huge binge on delicious dessert food on the weekends. It meant stressing about interrupting scheduled intermittent fasts. Attempting Whole 30 was an especially huge waste of time. I did about 25 days and didn’t notice any change in my body.
A few of positive things that came out of the PB experience are that I learned to cook for myself, I learned to pay attention to food labels, and I learned to stop fearing fat. Unfortunately I developed a corresponding fear of fruit. I also figured out that I don’t get along with wheat only in some forms, like waffles and pancakes and pizza (stomach cramps, tons of farts), but am fine with it in other forms like cake and cookies.
So now that my macronutrient ratio is back to “Whatever / the hell / I feel like,” and I don’t seem to be gaining fat so far, I have to wonder how I got fat in the first place. I can point to huge internal stress factors in my teenage years. Was it that, coupled with eating my sugary things at night and probably more than a little canola oil in mom’s cooking? Who knows?
I hear you on a lot of this…fear of fruit being one of them. I avoided it like it was refined sugar when I was Paleo. Looking back, why would a caveman pass on any fruit (or any food really) given the overall uncertainly of where your next meal was coming from? Now I eat 3 pieces of fruit a day (2 with lunch and 1 with dinner, usually bananas, pears, and apples).
The thing about fruits though is that their wild versions are typically a lot less sweet than the cultivated versions. Non-grafted apple trees from seed tend to grow super sour apples that are only really suited for cider processing. Wild berries are seedier and far less sweet than their supermarket counterparts for sure, as are wild grapes and cherries. I don’t know what the deal with tropical fruits are, but a Fuji apple and juicy Bartlett pear were definitely not features of the more temperate paleo landscape. I’m not arguing that you shouldn’t eat fruit, I think we’ve developed a helpful and symbiotic relationship with fruit trees that is good for all parties involved. But it’s worth pointing out that we’ve modified the gene pool to be more appealing and nutrient dense. This goes for all the plants we cultivate, from big juicy heirloom tomatos to long, beautiful tapered carrots fresh from the farmers market. All bred and selected to have higher sugar content.
Funny I have noticed the bosc pears I buy organically taste nothing like the convention versions I grew up with and love. Even the one I had at lunch today really had no flavor to it.
Did you eat Bosc pears growing up? I think Bosc pears usually suck, actually. I find them to be bland and gritty compared to other varieties. But really, even your organic versions have been bred and selected to be sweet and tasty. All “organic” or “natural” refers to is growing methods, i.e soil fertilization and pesticides and junk like that. So unless you’re going to become a forager in the wild (which is fun for like, a hobby but in terms of actual survival, not so much) you will be eating a diet of fruits and vegetables rich in nutrients that our ancestors never had the pleasure of consuming. It was our ingenius tampering with nature that led us to be able to relax a bit and build a city or two and eventually, sit here and blog. I think Paleo has it’s heart in the right place, it sees that we are drowning in excess- physically and environmentally and it asks the question: How should we live? Because how we’re living is causing us big problems. I think those are good questions, but I just don’t think there is a way we SHOULD do anything. There are ways we CAN do them, and to believe that nature has provided us all the tools we need for the robust health we crave seems silly to me. Why would it? What are we to the planet that it wants to grow us the best fruit trees for our personal health? I think the name of the game is adaptation, something we’ve excelled at in spades. We just need to learn how to adapt to what we’ve got now, and I think we’re at an interesting point in history because we’re drawing back from all our gains and expansion and reflecting on it, and noticing the draw backs. It’s all really neat.
I just felt like rattling that off. But another thing about your organic Bosc pear, did you get it at the grocery store? Whenever I get organic fruits at a normal grocery store they are always really dried out or shriveled up and tasteless…I think it’s really just because they’re old because they don’t move as fast as conventional produce. Just a guess:)
Not to dominate the board here, but I’m not sure where it’s pear season this time of year, either, or where you live. But it probably traveled a good bit, and pears don’t keep in storage very well, so it was probably picked while it was still rock hard on the tree. Which for pears, actually, is better than most fruits because they only properly ripen off tree, but it was still probably picked prematurely. Pears are best from a roadside stand in October- even Bosc.
I bought this pear at Whole Foods…I am surprised they let me in as I don’t line up to their standard clientel…you know…drive a Subaru, wear a straw hat, and cart around a snotty 3 year old dressed in a Halloween princess dress because it’s OK to let her express herself…HAHA. OK, I shouldn’t pick on the only store in my area that I can buy organic foods in…but there is a trend…HAHA.
This is why we love Denise Minger.
http://rawfoodsos.com/2011/05/31/wild-and-ancient-fruit/
That’s really neat. I figured things were different in the tropical/equatorial zones. Making a go of living in the temperate zones has always required a lot of adjustments to our environment.
Aaron… you beat me to the punch on linking Denise Minger’s post on ancient wild fruit. If we look at the basis of RBTI and what Doc Reams really looked at, beyond the numbers of course, we see he was all into soil quality. I think we can pretty much say unless you are growing your own produce in a garden where the soil is highly mineralized, the produce at the grocery store and even much at the farmers markets are pretty much devoid of many minerals. It’s definitely disappointing after visiting the local farmers market here in New Hampshire, I take my produce home only to find that the sugar snap peas are in no way close to sugary and the lettuces are bitter and rubbery. High Brix gardening is the way to go, but until Spring arrives we’ve got to make do with what we have and be thankful we have anything at all.
Blessings,
Jennifer
When I was with Matt and Pippa at the Wise Traditions conference in Dallas, we stopped at a Whole Foods, where I picked up some pears. Those where some of the best tasting pears I ever ate. We tested their Brix and they were off the charts.
I just bought a Multi-mineral supplement because of reading about RTBI in the comments and what not. It’s not min-col, I don’t know if it’s good or bad, and maybe i’ll never find out, but placebo is a hell of a thing.
OMG dude that diabetic Santa Clause guy is some SHIT (Before and after, Mark Sisson) I remember seeing that story and was like wow that’s awesome that’s exactly what I’m going to do. I still wonder about peoples transformations like that…He looks so damn good, and how did his skin not get all saggy, the dude is way older than me what the hell. And how about those hundreds of “before” photos and stories that were put up on Marks site for new years resolution. I’m very interested to see some of those stories. His hands and feet must be warm because he’s barefoot in the snow, I will never forget that picture, because I looked at that story so many times. Still confuses me…
I have seen quite a few folks in my practice and social circle try Paleo – they always get high as a kite, essentially manic, and then crash if they push it too far (as in keep at it longer than they should). I like to remind those who will listen of Dr. Schwarzbein’s illustrative metaphor that spending feels great, saving is boring, but we have to do both to be balanced.
Sent you my story via email.
Right on Matty- looking forward to the eBook.
Here’s my testimonial:
I was a vegan for five and a half years, for ethical and environmental reasons. I started reading about the paleo diet during that time, and became a philosophical convert, and it took me a while to start eating meat after becoming convinced that humans were not ‘natural vegans’ as I’d long maintained. It took several years before I could get around to ‘doing what I needed,’ which was to eat a Nora Gedgaudes style, grain free, ketogenic, high fat, lowish protein diet. It seemed to make sense- fat produces an even energy stream, a log on the fire instead of the paper or kindling that carbs represented. That’s why you don’t need to east as often or as much- your fat burning adapatation allowed you not to be a slave to putting wood on the fireplace.
I did eat sweet potatoes, the beloved starch of paleo advocates, but usually not more than one a day. And I did feel good- better, more even energy, probably a small bit of fat loss, and freedom from the swings of hypogycemia.
But within a couple of months, I ran into some trouble. For one, I would wake up in the middle of the night, heart racing, unable to sleep. I would finally fall back asleep after a few hours, just in time to feel groggy and awful when my day started. Also, I would oddly get crazy blood sugar drops when I ate a shake at night. I couldn’t figure out why a coconut milk, raw milk, egg yolk, handful of frozen berry meal would throw me for a loop. (Reactive hypogycemia, perhaps?).
But the biggest and most debilitating part was the toll it took on me socially. I could barely go to events without concern about whether the ‘right’ kind of food would be there. If I went to a potluck, I’d eat around the edges of salads or maybe some meat, but mostly just feel frustrated and unhappy. I had become been more crazy than I was before about diet, and just couldn’t figure out why so many people in the world had gotten it so, so wrong. The final straw was the toll it took on garden planning in the house I was a part of- don’t grow corn, or potatoes, but sweet taters were sort of ok, and squash too maybe. Mainly, I wanted cabbage and broccoli and cauliflower and above ground leafy vegetables. If you’re a gardener, you know those generally suck as calorie sources compared to roots and grains.
Anyway, I found Matt and 180 Health. We corresponded, and he had helpful words for me. Here was a guy who’d read all the books I had, and all the books I wanted to read, and somehow was advocating something beside what I thought they had resoundingly established. Better pay attention, I thought. He suggested trusting our appetite and cravings, not seeing the body as trying to sabotage our well-being. He was in favor of a sensible, whole foods based diet, but also put on a premium on de-stressing and climbing out of the trap of orthorexia.
I started loosening up my diet, not freaking out so much. It’s a couple years later, and I’m getting the hang of it. I really resonate with the observation that just about everyone I’ve encountered who’s really into some stripe of ‘healthy eating’ has mediocre health, at best. And with the stress and social isolation I experienced when it was me against the crazy non-vegan, non-paleo world, I can see why.
To paleo eaters, or potential paleo eaters: the idea has some merit and resonance. I still recognize that grain agriculture has been a driving force in desertification and ecological destruction throughout its history. The emphasis on grass-based, regenerative animal agriculture among many paleos is admirable and important. Given its small share of the market, I think it’s worth supporting those farmers regularly. And while I’m skeptical that we know the full story when it comes to antinutrients in seed foods (phytic acid may supposedly have anticancer effects, and I wouldn’t be surprised if other ‘antinutrients’ had as yet unforseen benefits alongside their detriments), there’s probably no harm in experimenting with other carbs beside wheat and corn and rice, which provide the lion’s share of the world’s calories. Simply from a balance perspective, branching out makes sense to me. The paleo framework is also a good one to filter other ideas through, like those related to movement, or education, or child-raising. But it’s hard to say with certainty how we ate or or lived way back in the time before writing, and I think it’s also a fallacy to think that it’s all been a mis-step somehow, and we need only to get back to the right, timeless path.
Rather than look back at the failures behind us and think we’re at the end of history, I like to look ahead and imagine we’re just getting started with history. Agriculture and animal husbandry had far-reaching consequences that we’re just now starting to understand, and navigating what lies before us is the start of a new story. In that frame, a hard line paleo ideology is just putting our heads into the sand. Better to grapple with the questions and contradictions than retreat from them, in my mind.
And with that, good luck and happy eating!
That’s a good point about the widespread devastation large scale agriculture has caused and is still causing. I think small sustainable farms are our best sources not only for a long term food supply but also an optimally healthy food supply.
Matt,
Have you looked at all into the GAPS protocol for gut healing? I’m pretty sure you’ve heard of it because it is often promoted at Weston Price type gatherings and media. It is a protocol that is designed to let the gut heal. It has been used to treat kids with autism and other spectrum disorders. If you have heard of it can you give me your 2 cents worth. It isn’t completely low carb, mostly it avoids gluten and lactose (as well as other processed food) until gut healing has occurred. Which can be like 2 years… depending on how bad things were at the beginning.
GAPS is a theory. Saying it “heals the gut in 2 years” is truly hypothetical and unproven. And I don’t see it doing what it’s touted to all that often. Maybe some short-term symptom relief for a few months – and yeah it’s good that it’s composed of nutritious foods in many circumstances, but that doesn’t make it anything special.
In reality I see a lot of people wrecking their metabolism AND digestion (which is so heavily influenced by metabolism) on the diet because of the high levels of meat and nut flours and low levels of carbs typically consumed. Tons of meat and nut flour is probably terrible for young kids, as is eating tons of concentrated fats from stuff like ghee and coconut oil in excess. Overall, I’m not very fond of it at all. Even if it did work, which I don’t think it does with any kind of consistency, I would still look for a better way. Because that diet sucks to follow.
I used to be a big fan of the GAPS protocol and even went about trying to do it, I didn’t last for very long! I was also doing it for my son who is having trouble growing, I thought it couldn’t hurt to eliminate gluten for a while to see if he improves, but gluten-free didn’t do anything for me (or him) besides giving me a greater sensitivity to it which after a few months of adding it back in I think I am finally back to where I was. I cringe when I read about so many very young children being forced to eat nothing but eggs, soup, meat and veggies. I know one child who gets bellyaches from everything she is eating despite having a super clean whole food ‘healing’ diet. It just doesn’t seem right. But I would like to see what you would have to say about kids who are autistic, and kids who clearly react to added sugar or other foods who seem to get better with these healing protocols.
thanks for the response
I remember reading something on Food Renegade about people feeding their babies straight butter at restaurants. It seemed okay to me at the time.
Matt, I’d really like to hear more about what you *would* do in this case. I ask because there are several members of my family that I think do have trouble with leaky gut, me included. I tried GAPS for about six weeks a year ago, and did think I noticed some change – my usually horrible spring fever was non-existent. But then I had to drop it because my mom went on hospice care, and I was heavily involved in caring for her. I was kind of tossing around whether I should pick it up again – but the whole low-carb thing – I ended up with severe adrenal fatigue because of a low-carb diet some seven years ago. I have noticed lots of the low-carb nonsense on the support boards ( ” you don’t need carbs”) and there are people on there who keep cutting, cutting, carbs and when they have no energy are sure that it’s “die-off”. I’d love to hear whatever thoughts/ ideas you would try.
I put a lot of focus on metabolism for healing “leaky gut,” in large part because protein turnover/healing/building new gut tissue is magnified tremendously by raising metabolic rate. I’m not even necessarily a big “low-fiber/low-residue/low starch” kind of advocate either, as the fermentation of those foods in the digestive tract produces the best food for rebuilding the gut – short-chain saturated fatty acids. But every situation is unique. Those foods can cause irritation and seem to worsen bacterial overgrowth of the small intestine, especially in the short-term when metabolism is still below ideal.
I don’t know if I could lay out “what I think you should do,” but I prefer to see people bring metabolism up to the ideal level first and then work on any remaining health problems.
This is all well and good, and I very much want to hear what comes of this, but I also just REALLY want to hear something constructive, Matt.
There’s all this talk about what we SHOULDN’T be doing. Wonderful. What should we be doing? I’m a pale eater open to logic and hearing different things, but I have no idea what you’re proposing that I do differently!
I’m not proposing anything really. I’m trying to get people beyond the limited black and white mindset of dietary good and evil – keeping them un-brainwashed enough to actually be at least partially aware of their own biofeedback.
Then, I guess I don’t get it.
We’re talking about folks who are just flat broken. Their bodies and their brains are broken.
The thing that paleo has given me is a way to fix that brokenness, and not only repair the way my body handles food, but repair my relationship with food. Whether or not it’s optimal–that’s something people need. That’s definitely something broken people need.
Maybe your audience isn’t broken people. Maybe it’s people who have their stuff together to some degree and are ready to venture into the land of thinking for themselves?
On being “broken,” I would say a lot of people here are looking for some resolution to various problems that could be termed as being “broken”. The most important aspect, in my opinion, is to make sure you are not getting pulled in by any more dogma because it will take over your mind. This is especially true if a health issue is interfering with your life, you are unsatisfied with your body, or both. After months (or years) of dealing with a problem you get lost in minutia, not ever realizing that most of the ideas we cling were never really based on solid arguments to begin with.
Recovering from a screwed up metabolism, fixing a health problem, or getting rid of excess fat is not an easy or straightforward thing. It’s usually a highly individualistic thing that requires a lot of time, biofeedback, and observation. It also requires good, scientifically sound information and sometimes a little coaching. Chief and Matt both help people with these types of issues, but if it were easy or straightforward, they’d both have summed it up in a couple of posts already.
I guess what I’m thinking is this: folks like Robb Wolf and Dallas and Melissa have these really straight-forward protocols. Buy into X, Y, and Z for 30 days. Then, see how you look, feel, and perform, and start to make decisions. I guess I want something like that here. What is it that I’m buying into?
Check out Matt’s Diet Recovery book…it’s flexible but is based (but not cemented on) a 30 day refeeding process called RRARF.
I’ll give it a look. I can’t rip on something until I’ve at least done that.
You can’t puzzle out most health problems in 30 days. RRARF helped me a lot way back when I tried it, and it’s great for pushing you to overcome your mental barriers. But most people that are “broken”, or simply screwed sh!t up with their dieting (like me), take more time, trial and error, and intuition. I tried RBTI as well when Matt was first rolling it out for about three months. That was just about enough time to get the hang of it, figure out what was and wasn’t working, and see some marginal improvement. Each case is individual. It’s not uncommon for people to spend years fixing things when they are “broken”. That’s why Matt warns against getting sold on a diet or dogma based on its effects after one month. You have to continually search and integrate.
I’m almost done reading it, and I have to reticently admit that there’s a lot in it that makes a LOT of sense, and answers a LOT of the feelings I’ve had about food lately. There’s a lot I buy into.
Does that mean the Paleo police are going to come and get me now?
Josh, Matt Stone pretty much advocates NOT buying in to anything, and trying to gradually re-assert the fact that YOU are in charge of what you put in your mouth. It’s kind of like intuitive eating. Yes, I understand that you might have health concerns or feel that your body is “broken,” but often our bodies become “broken” by the fact that other people are trying to tell us what we should and should not eat, and we’ve bought in to the idea that somebody else knows best and we know nothing. “But I don’t know anything about nutrition! How am I going to be healthyyy!” Matt has tons of posts, and tons of different recommendations and discussions of foods and everything, but above all it seems to be about finding out what works best for you, yourself, by paying attention to your own body. A task which would be a lot easier if we weren’t so worried about being fat or putting on weight or getting huge ripped muscles or getting to zero bodyfat or whatever. It’s about healing your relationship to food, and your mental health, as much as it is knowing what to eat and how much and when. It’s more important (for your health) to be happy than it is to be on the diet that’s going to fix everything and make you live forever.
Dude…my biofeedback tells me I need bacon. lol
How do you feel about higher carb paleo, like 40%-50% calories from carbs?
The diet is much more enjoyable with bananas. :)
I definitely want to write something when I get the time. What made me really, really want to do low carb and eat whole foods like paleo in the first place I think was my hair loss problem and acne. When you read about hair loss and acne you always hear about insulin spikes (sebum dht) and blah blah blah. When I first started my job that I have now doing metal recycling, I started to break out terribly. I have acne problems anyway though. That was stressing me out super bad. I got stricter. No dairy, no grains, and basically cruciferous vegetables were my carbs LAWL. Keep in mind that I have tried paleo (poor style) and low carb before and at different points have I excluded grains and dairy too. Cheese eventually destroys that habit with time haha. Whilst I was standing back up with my impact wrench after taking off aluminum rims I would literally almost pass out. I was struggling to maintain weight. Coworkers would joke around how I was skinny and I didn’t realize how skinny I was actually looking. My face pretty much turned cystic around my mouth for a while. This wasn’t that long ago. Oh man theres too much to say and I can’t even remember right now what things led to what lol. But right now I’m on topical acne medicine that truly works that I’ve used before, but I think even without it now my face would be waay better. I been eating like a mad man, got my temp up to 99 degrees on sunday, I haven’t gotten light headed at work since rarffing, even with a get a pimple it doesnt hurt like they usually do. I don’t think I ever had sleeping problems as I’d always be exhausted anyways but maybe I’m wrong. Anyhow, for those who don’t eat many carbs and do strenuous work, I don’t know how the F**k you can do that lol. I was drinking shit loads of water in the summer, drinkin lots of vitamin C, even bought a supplement called herpanacine that costs an arm and a leg. Basically, I’m freaking nuts, but wow I can actually eat ice cream and pizza and not get IBS (still in experimental stages, have had mild issues couple weeks ago) I feel like body temperature, metabolism, healing of the gut etc…directly correlates if something will bother me or not. I ate a whole tub of ice cream yesterday (I always overdo it =P) and I haven’t felt shit, but my temperature was really high at the time. Perhaps it will come with a vengeance tomorrow, but I doubt it =) The ice cream wasn’t even the big feat though, it was the big bowl of cereal with skim milk. I’m sorry everybody I can’t organize anything I’m just a big blabber lol. I’m NUTZ and eating what I want is also NUTZ to me. Take care.
Matt, you left out Dr. Loren Cordain, the world’s leading researcher in Paleolithic nutrition and how it can be replicated in the modern kitchen. Loren is the founder of the modern Paleo movement and originated the phrase Paleo Diet. Robb Wolf was one of his students! Dr. Cordain’s new book is the Paleo Answer: http://www.facebook.com/ThePaleoAnswer. Please acknowledge his seminal work going forward. He has helped improve the lives of millions of people all over the world. Thanks.
Yes, I’ve read all his work.
I took a look at the Paleo Answer at a book store, and I didn’t find it much different than the old book. He doesn’t hate saturated fats any more, but other than that…it looked the same to me.
Dude, that liger is not sabre-toothed. Its just a regular liger. Now I can’t trust anything you say.
Looks more like a saber-spined liger? Matt what the hell is going on here?!
Ask Napoleon Dynamite
I wonder where I had seen that picture!
This post reminded me to look in my RSS feed and realize that I have slowly widdled down my nutrition blogs to only the ones that have sense: Denise Minger, Stephan Guyenet, Melissa McEwen, and a few others, all of whom seem deviate from dogma what talking about carbs. Sometimes I forget that the paleo world at large is still scared of carbohydrates. While I would argue that one of these camps is more accurately paleo, it is unfortunately the other one that is popular. And so there are two paleos: the real one that adapts to the changing evidence and the fad one steeped in dogma. It is obvious which one Matt’s book is targeting. Sadly, however, to those in the other camp, the whole idea stinks of a giant strawman.
Hi Theo,
Do you have a list of all the blogs you follow? Mine are pretty whittled down as well: Stephen Guyenet, Chris Masterjohn, Denise Minger, and Matt Stone for the most part, although I pretty much only post here.
Hey Theo,
I am curious as to who is still afraid of carbs in the paleo community. I know Mark Sisson has always advocated for ~150g of carbs for healthy individuals, Robb Wolf has been a big fan of starch, especially post workout, Chris Kresser has never been carb shy, Jaminet aims for 100-150g of starch a day, and Kurt Harris has upped his carb intake to a more traditional SAD ratio.
The paleo diet has become less of a ketogenic prescription and more of an anti-inflammatory approach.
Unless I have been reading the internet wrong this whole time.
It’s not so much that 150g of carbs isn’t unrealistic…for me it was his claim that anything over that leads to “insidious” (his word) weight gain…and once you hit 300g you are in the Danger Zone (alongside Kenny Loggins). I can tell you that for me anyway that is simply not true.
The trouble isn’t that the paleo community on a whole is afraid of carbs, it’s that the big personalities of the paleo community still advocate lowering carbs for weight-loss, and since almost everyone wants to lose weight, this is what most people do. Having a “recommendation” for around 150gms of carbs per day but touring less than 50 as guaranteed weight loss leads so many to ruin their health.
Matt, here is my testimonial.
The Paleo Diet: Made me an internet blog reading slut.
A couple more comments,
1) I find it hilarious when they say (Oshare said something similar up there), the Paleo diet is a young science. Of course it is, with a lack of evidence you have free will to make up any fantasy you want as to what is a Paleo diet.
2) I find it hilarious that every single person who goes on the Paleo diet automatically starts a blog as part of the signup deal. The irony is immense. Pretend to eat like a caveman, spend the rest of your time in front of a computer writing or reading about it.
3) I find it hilarious that all the Paleos look like little princesses. All clean shaven, all nicely trimmed hair, clothed, polished vibrams, living in Hollywood mansions with Hollywood smiles, driving sports cars, writing blogs on their apple Iphones whilst eating a store bought “grass fed” steak washed down with a glass of vintage wine. A manicure in the morning, followed by a tooth whitening session, followed by a book signing followed by a spot on the livin la vida low carb show.
Oh right yea, businessmen.
I will not take them serious until they follow the whole “paleo” lifestyle. Living in solitude in a wet, dark, damp forest, no internet, no house, no clothes, no BLOG, no nothing, I want them to have long knotted hair, beards down to their ankles, toothless yellow smiles with termite legs stuck in their teeth, covered in dirt, their loin cloth covered in skid marks and piss stains, thorns stuck in their calloused mouldy trench feet, 3 fingers missing, an eye hanging out of their socket, 1 gangrene leg, a cock that doesn’t work, hunchbacked, desperate and tired trying to catch a disabled chicken all whilst being hunted by a pack of superior sabretooths, having failed to catch the gammy legged chicken to sit down to a dung beetle salad washed down with fermented swamp juice. That meal would be his last for as he just contracted dungshit-itis and died at the age of 12. Poor sod Paleosisson, for if only it was 2012.
Lee needs to be a guest writer on this blog…HAHA. Awesome post.
ditto. That was f—-ing hilarious!!
That’s f@#$*&:-g hilarious. Made me spit paleo coca-cola out of my nose.
Haha, hilarious, if inaccurate.
Paleo sucks. Here are a few vignettes from my 8 month Paleo ODyssey.
Every take your kite out to the park, only to find their was no wind? Then you try running as hard as you can, but the damn thing still won’t fly? That was My Penis on Paleo. It should be called the “Anti-Boner Diet”. If you have plans on becoming a celibate monk, it just might be the diet for you. Good news: problem resolved immediately upon adding plenty of carbs back in.
Wait a minute. Not only will it help you if you don’t want to have sex, it will also help you if you don’t ever want to shit again. Here’s a true story. One day I was sitting on the pot, thinking I could crap (after I don’t know how many days). However, the shit would not come out of my ass. I sat there for 40 minutes. It felt like my rectum was going to explode because there was so much shit accumulatated that would not come out. I SERIOUSLY considered calling 9-1-1. I thought I was going to rupture something. There was blood. Finally I drank some hot water and magnesium and got it out. Now I have had constipation before, but nothing like this.
And then there was the stress. Now I sometimes have a stressful job as a Software Engineer, but actually the period during which I was doing Paleo was rather quiet in terms of my career. Nonetheless I was constantly on edge while doing this diet. Again, immediately resolved once I swtiched to higher carbs.
Thanks for this Thomas. I have also included your “Have You Been Seduced by The Paleo Narrative.” Great stuff. Love the boner part way more though.
Hey Matt,
I’ll write up my story and send it to you later. It’s not Paleo so much as low-carb, but there’s a lot of crossover and my story will probably be useful. If not, you can use it in a future “diet warnings” type of book. Feel free to borrow from any of my other comments on this post so far.
Okay, so I did a sort of modified paleo during different spurts in my life, and I’d usually feel pretty great until I caved and scarfed the cake and then I’d balloon back up. See, my trouble has always been that I reach a point in my dieting where I remember that one day, I’m going to die and if I spent all my time avoiding sticky sweet barbecue ribs and chocolate ice cream just as the edges begin to melt away from the carton- all for the sake of a flatter version of myself? Well, I’d have quite a few regrets. That’s an over simplification though, because it’s really not all about losing weight. It starts out that way in earnest, but then I get high.
When I was 12 I did a little starvation experiment that went on for the entirety of summer vacation. I rode my bike like crazy and on occasion, ate a few meatballs and ate instant coffee grounds straight out of the jar… I felt GREAT. I swear to god I had an enlightenment that summer, as well as losing forty pounds, growing three inches and getting my first period. What the hell kind of stress was I putting on my body? I shudder to think. But it was totally addictive, and I spent many years trying to recapture that sort of uh, “enlightened” feeling…that was always the trouble, more so than the actual weight loss. I used that summer as a goalpost for the “natural high” I wanted to attain and feel all the time. I can’t believe that in all my years of researching and wondering that I never figured out that all that feeling was was my adrenal glands, doing their darndest to keep me afloat during the apparent food shortage I was living through. Duh! Of course! And a “runners high?” What the hell is that? I know so many runners who babble on and on about it as if it’s the sign that what they’re doing is good for them, never mind the shin splits and torn tendons…And I would feel the same whenever I’d do a fun little fast. See! I feel good! Proof positive that what I’m doing is a source of a totally natural high, and boy oh boy, if it’s a “natural” reaction of the body, it MUST be healthy! Ha! How stupid! As if it’s all just simple input-output! I bet Jesus felt pretty fucking spiritual after forty days in the desert without food. I bet when the devil came by to tempt him into some bread making magic, Jesus was so far into his all-natural catecholamine high that he just laughed him off.
So anyway, I starved myself on and off throughout my teenage years, but then as my twenties dawned I took on a more respectable approach and would periodically cut out carbs. But then, disaster struck: After many years of physical and emotional stress (my family is so screwed up that they truly take the fun OUT of dysfunction. Dysction, I guess.) I got weirdly ill. My knee was so messed up that until the MRI showed no actual tissue damage, the doctor thought I had ruptured my ACL. A similar mystery happened to my foot, I started losing weight without trying, had huge dark circles under my eyes, spasms and twitches all over my body, my heart rate and blood pressure would shoot sky high at random, my hair was coming out in clumps and what was growing in was super baby fine, my hands and feet and shins tingled all the time, I had gross yellow-green bruises everywhere, burns and cuts took forever to heal…and I am eating a really healthy diet at this point. So I go to a million doctors and they think there’s nothing wrong, I need a vacation or something. Hot dog! I really felt like traveling! I couldn’t get out of bed! And I was uninsured, blowing through all my savings to pay my medical bills AND I had to give up my job! Yeah! I’ll take a fucking cruise! Thanks Doc! After awhile they started prescribing Valium. I just could not believe that the random spikes in my heart rate were anxiety attacks. I would be fine, reading a book, laughing at a joke, and then BAM. Heart rate spike. Start sweating, getting really cold…I was waking up drenched in cold sweats, I mean, this was awful! So I searched and searched for an answer and then I encountered the Lyme community. Anyone familiar with these guys? Pretty much the idea is that if you have a weird problem that’s gone undiagnosed, you have Lyme, as well as a few other tick-born pathogens, most likey. I don’t mean to say that this theory isn’t possibly the truth for many, but the way these “Lyme Literate M.D’s” approach it is a joke. I went to this doctor and he asked me if I had been experiencing “fatigue and malaise.” Why yes doctor! Indeed I have! “Okay!” he says “You have Lyme!” and he proceeds to write me THREE scripts for THREE different antibiotics, all of which I’m supposed to take for six months, all at the same time. And when I asked him questions, when I asked to have the diagnosis explained, my skepticism was sort of swatted away with a puzzled look and, wait for it, a prayer. He prayed for my healing….but I’m going online and all these really desperate people are so glad to get help, and a lot of these Lyme stories sound like me…but I’m way too freaked by the inevitable fallout of such a protocol that I hold off on the antibiotics and go on a all-natural approach instead.
So I decided on a low carb modified paleo that allowed a bit of dairy. Maybe not paleo so much as early shepherding nomad man, mainly because germs love sugar so I figured I’d starve them to death. That’s always an interesting theory, that germs need sugar to live so stop eating sugar…I know of another organism that needs sugar to live too…hmmm. Anyway, the only fruit I ate was green apples because I figured they were probably the closest commericially available thing to the sour, knotted fruits that grow wild here in the temperate zone…I ate sweet potatoes occasionally…I just ate tons and tons of meat. Craving a cracker?? I’ll just fry up some chicken thighs real crispy to give that it that crackery crunch! Mmm mmm! Still hungry?!!? Even after eating all that delicious, nourishing protein??? How ’bout three avocados and a head of raw cabbage! What’s this? Digestive upset?? HOW? Think of all the ENZYMES from those delicious raw vegetables!!! Think about how HEALTHY it is to eat vegetables that aren’t really that tasty, have no quantifiable caloric value and are trying their darndest to keep animals like us from eating them! Yum! What’s this? You say I can have UNLIMITED RAW VEGGIES???? Oh happy day! Really, I just love to eat veggies. They’re my favorite food, I swear, no I never crave processed foods like cake! HA HA! Ha. ha.
Anyway, I did this for about four months, along with swallowing down a ton of “immune boosting” or rather, “putting your immune system into hyper-overdrive” supplements. I was losing more and more weight (to note, one doctor told me I looked “good” since the precipitous, unintended weight loss), literally literally literally my skin thinned out. I could see all my blood vessels in gross detail, WATER hurt my hands. Bathing was a real challenge. The only thing that made me feel normal for about twenty minutes was coffee. I know, real Paleo. Well who knows, when did the South American Indians start drinking coffee? Is coffee allowed on Paleo? I just know it has no sugar, so I was good to go. And I’d feel like myself for brief window in time, and then it was back to bed. During this low carb bout, my blood pressure sunk from a lifetime average of 135/80 to 95/70….When a nurse took my BP and saw this, I gasped and explained to her that never in my life had my BP been that low…she just looked at me like I was crazy and assured me that low blood pressure is a good thing! Well, what about the fact that I’m thinner now than I was as an enthusiastic intravenous drug user, even though I’m housing bunless burgers at every opportunity?? “Great!” she smiles, “Weight loss is great, you’re within a normal range for your height, you look great!” Well, what about the fact that I almost passed out three times since I’ve been sitting here with you, nurse? “GREAT! Most Americans BP and weight is high, so if yours is drastically lower, then that has to be a good thing! Cuz high is bad and low is good! Of course! Now sit tight, the doctor will be right in to further ignore these alarming numbers!” (She didn’t say the last line.)
So, long story short(ened an bit), after awhile I gave up the whole theory and found a cheap doctor right down the road from my house who cursed and fist bumped and was actually open to their being something wrong with me other than needing to go to Disneyland or having an unprovable tick disease…and I also lied to him and told him that Addison’s disease runs in my family just to get him to test my adrenals because I had read that doctors never do so on their own. Sure enough, my catecholamines were undetectably low, as tested via a 24 hour whizz test and blood work. No epiniephrine, no dopamine, and scant amounts of cortisol. I was checked out for tumors and growths and other weird stuff that could cause this, and I checked out clear for all of them. To my doctor, it’s still a mystery, but to me, I knew exactly what the problem was. I had seriously blown the shit out of my adrenals, and I did it through stress, and very large part of that stress being dietary, dietary like eating a pile of meat and vegetables and treating myself to a sour apple for dessert. Mmm.
I retooled my whole approach, ate an organic scoop of vanilla ice cream on a sugar cone with rainbow sprinkles daily, stopped most of the supplements, but I started taking minerals and amino acids (to help with the dopamine) a B complex for adrenal support as well as maca, holy basil, and licorice to help with cortisol production, E to help with circulation. I stopped the coffee, stopped feeling bad about needing to lay in bed and made sure to never ever ever let myself get hungry. Food on me at all times. Within a month the circles were fading from under my eyes, the spasms and twitches were almost history, water no longer stung to the touch and I was able to go for a mile long walk without having to turn around. What a triumph it was.
I’m still not 100 % (this was a fairly recent ordeal),but I am much improved. I truly thought I was going to die if I didn’t figure out what the hell the problem was, and I’m very glad I did. Perhaps if I had been reading this blog instead of the Lyme people or the Paleo people’s blogs, I’d have felt better a lot sooner.
I really like what you’re doing here, I think you’re documenting a journey of thought and that you’re coming to the realization that most of the secrets of health are hidden in plain sight. And to all those who are all mad at you and want diet plans and statistics, they are missing the entire point and I don’t think it’s something you can convince them of. People have to realize it for themselves.
Everything has trade offs. Grains and dairy can make you fat, sure. But they can also make you healthy, fertile, taller and stronger, as our evolution and history proves. Demonizing food groups that took us from squat, compact, short lived beasts to the overpopulated, comfortable mess we are now is a short-sighted point of view. And if you really need an argument for why civilized foods are okay, perhaps you haven’t been subjected to a good cheese board lately, hmmm?
This is a great post and a testament to the power of listing to your body and eating the food (as well as listening to your body in other ways, like resting and sleeping). Thanks for sharing.
I wish you the best of luck on healing yourself and you’ve written a fantastic testimonial. It’s scary to me how “sure” I thought I was about certain aspects of nutrition back in the day, and even not too long ago about some things. In the back of my mind though, I always knew body builders etc…got away with eating carbs and sometimes “garbage” food but I thought since I have a predisposition for hair loss amongst other things I better keep that insulin under control! Fuck that, ETF. As long as I have my “ibs, food sensitivities blah blah” under control, I’ll use topical acne treatment and eat what the hell I want (I still avoid pufas and whole grains when possible) for the rest of my life. My damn problem now is getting enough rest! It gets late and I read this shit when I should be sleeping haha. And when I say shit, I mean, a godsend.
Big Kitten for prez!
I agree, Big Kitten FTW!
I will also agree with the other former raw vegans that the symptoms are very similar. Carbs in excess with no protein=trouble as does protein with no carbs= hell.
Give me Pancakes or Give me .. no, just want pancakes.
:=)
The Hag
PS We miss you Matt. The Wi is in mourning and Malcolm is wearing a black band around his tiny front leg. :-(
I don’t think that eating excess carbs is always that big of a problem. In fact, I find that most people eating a very high carb diet don’t eat enough calories, lose lean muscle mass, and assume that they just weren’t getting in enough protein. Eating more carbs and more calories fixes the problem artificially blamed on eating too many carbs. Personally, nothing keeps my blood sugar more stable than eating a bunch of carbs with only very small amounts of fat and protein with it. Assuming I go overboard enough. Which I usually do. It ain’t a Matt meal unless it’s got at least 200 grams of carbs in it.
Hey, BK, thanks for that tale – a warning for the wise. I found similar folks in the Yoga community yammering on about how fasting is so essential to reaching enlightenment, never mind that they were a messy cloud of Vata aggravated humanity.
Beautiful testimonial!
I’d rather be fat and fertile than “lean” and infertile any day of the week.
And yes, yes! Bring on the cheese board!
@Big Kitten Do/did you have Lyme,’cause that wasn’t quite clear to me from your story…sorry.
What do you eat now in a day…..do you eat grains/dairy prepared/made in a more WAPF/nutritious foods manner or just the standard storebought stuff?
How are you doing now?….do you exercise and/or work?
(oh….and are you male or female?…I’m guessing male:),since most peeps on here who are doing better are male,maybe males can handle all kinds of (crap) food better,also without becoming addicted to it,staying lean and not disrupting the organs while experiencing ‘good feelings’ on it,which all addictions seem to do. )
I’d have to agree with a comment I read from someone above. This false crusade seems really, REALLY petty. I used to read this blog from time to time, but I just can’t anymore–sweeping generalizations and straw man attacks galore.
My experience is too disjointed to draw many conclusions on how paleo affected me, however, this much I pretty sure of. The anti-carb propaganda did very much affect my choices. Furthermore, I am much calmer and handle stress a lot better eating more carbs. Its more convenient, I feel better, more socially acceptable – all of which makes low carb/paleo stupid and unworkable for me.
You and your blog is what finally got me thinking differently about the whole low-carb/paleo notion (and about health ideologies in general). That the positive benefits noticed (which is why it is convincing) are not long term, that fat metabolism is potentially stressful, I could go on and on.
I feel like I owe you and wanted to chime in and thank you. You positively influenced me on this point and this sounds like it could be a great book. I think you do great stuff here and have one of the (if not the) most insightful and interesting health blogs. I hope you sell a million!
Oh, bigkitten, its like listening to myself speaking, except replace your adventures in low-carb with mine in low fat raw vegan. Either way, the results were the same and I’m still undoing the damage. Your thing about the fasting/running high got me most. I still don’t know what to make of my love/hate relationship with running (or any exercise). No run was complete unless I was so tired that I could barely function. Bad news. It made my head a complete haze, I sought that, but it was the only antidote I knew to the mega-analysis of food. When I ran, I would eat what I wanted, finally feel at peace. It felt like torture when life got in the way and I couldn’t get runs in before everything else. Welcome to my head!
I been there too. Well, in my head not yours.
I lost my bloody hair on paleo and looked sick likea sub saharan skeleton! NO THANKS!
My hair thinned out like a mofo doin all kinds of weird diet garbage! I knew I had a predisposition to have a receding hair line, but my attempts to counteract that made it waay worse in my opinion. DAMNIT
Maybe the problem is we in the States tend to take things to extremes? With respect to paleo, or what I think of as paleo, in temperate climates, wouldn’t we be consuming huge, huge amounts of carbs when those things are in season (along with whatever else we could get our mouths around) and then backing off in the darker months of the year, eating less generally and sleeping more? This would not be a diet, per se, so much as eating seasonally.
I’ve never gone strictly paleo. I gave up gluten in 2005 and have not regretted that decision. That said, I can eat certain substitutes (e.g., a decent GF pancake mix) and feel like crap within two hours…could be the sugar, could be the potato, rice or tapioca starch (because these things are definitely new) or the almond meal. As someone else here put it, it’s the cheese that would trip me up. Cheese is too good to pass up…and it seems to be a pretty good storage and travel food for the darker months.
But I would be curious about Matt’s thoughts on seasonality and the interplay with eating more (and more variety) in the summer months and sleeping less and eating less in the winter months and sleeping more. If you cover this in your books, I have not gotten to them yet. Thanks!
The problem is that with the Paleo movement you have the pervasive belief that natural is better. Rather than be healthy eating carbs during one season, and having crappy vitality the rest of the year and aging at a faster rate due to the increased adrenal load of carbohydrate restriction (particularly during winter, which already increases the adrenal load due to short daylight and increased time indoors), it’s better to eat carbs 365 days per year. We know that is superior. It is undeniable. 24-7-365 carb availability via agriculture is what made health and fertility so much greater than what was achievable as a hunter/gatherer. And I think this is especially true now as humans are adapted to eating carbs as a primary fuel source. Most deteriorate if they stray from that for too long.
Here is my story. I tried to keep it as related to low-carb paleo as I could.
Getting sick is easy. All you have to do is read some books and websites on health and nutrition, create rules for eating based on what you thinks is “good” or “bad”, and follow those rules at all costs even when your body screams at you to stop. One of the most harmful rules I ever adopted was the “carbohydrates are bad, or at least suboptimal from a longevity and health standpoint” rule. This rule was based on the belief that our paleolithic ancestors did not have access to significant amounts of carbohydrates and so they subsisted mostly on fat, protein, and non-starchy and non-sweet carbohydrates.
The first dietary decision guided by this rule was to remove all grains from my diet. Over the course of a few years I went through periods of temporarily avoiding other carb sources like fruit and dairy while eating a predominantly raw food diet that included ample amounts of animal products, fats, vegetables, and all the other “paleo” foods. I acknowledged that most of my foods would not have been found in the wild habitats of my paleolithic ancestors, but my intention was to approximate the macronutrient ratios that I believed were ideal. For the first few years after having gradually shifted from SAD to a mostly raw paleo diet I felt great. Benefits included clearer skin, more energy, better digestion, the ability to easily gain weight, a very light and clear feeling often associated with raw diets, and lessening of asthma symptoms. I was 18 years old at the time I started experimenting with diet, and I didn’t have any major health problems to begin with, aside from cat dander-induced asthma (which diet never healed). So my intention was to become even healthier.
I wasn’t too strict about avoiding carbs in the beginning, but upon noticing the development of some dental caries after eating lots of fresh summer berries, and having experienced many blood sugar swings from eating too much fruit, I decided to largely eliminate fruit from my diet. I figured I could get all of those nutrients from vegetables and without the sugar. My teeth stopped getting worse. Around that time, I was experimenting with intermittent fasting and alternate day fasting. I loved the focused feeling fasting gave me. It was strikingly similar to the effects of a cup of coffee, like slow-release coffee, which I now realize was due to my adrenals pumping out extra stress hormones in response to the lack of food. Also around that time I started to notice my hair was falling out more than usual and was changing its texture. There were other minor changes like dandruff, brief periods of poor digestion and gas, inability to focus, and low energy.
After I graduated from college I started working a full time job-that I hated, which was a major source of stress. I would bike to and from work and I would often skip lunch. I was eating very few carbs. At that time, I started to experience more digestive problems which included lots of diarrhea and incomplete digestion of foods in general. I found it increasingly difficult to focus especially in the stressful environment of work and couldn’t think clearly. My brain wasn’t working well, and I felt like I was getting dumber. I was extremely emotional. My energy fluctuated greatly throughout the day, and I was exhausted most of the time. I wasn’t sleeping well and having very strange dreams when I did sleep. My health fell apart over the period of a few months. In response to these health problems, I switched from eating mostly raw foods to mostly cooked foods, which seemed to digest better and not make me feel as ill when I ate them. At one point I ran out of money and was living on free potatoes and vegetables from a farmer’s market along with some high-quality organ meats and coconut oil. I had been avoiding carbs entirely except for a little fruit and so my body did not handle the starch in the sweet potatoes well. I had more bouts of diarrhea and all my problems worsened.
At that time I realized I had some serious gut dysbiosis, despite drinking copious amounts of EM probiotics and eating the standard list of fermented foods so popular among WAP folk, and so I thought the solution was to go even lower carb. After all, my symptoms got much worse when I tried to eat potatoes or if I ate too much fruit, and all the candida fear mongerers said starches and sugars were the problem. It made sense at the time. So I ate nothing but fat (butter and coconut oil by the spoon), animals (mostly organ meats, bone marrow, stocks/broths, and other WAP-type foods of the low-carb variety), and cooked vegetables. I eliminated all dairy (except for butter) and all sugars and starches. After about three weeks of this diet all my digestive issues completely went away. My energy was way better, my skin was perfectly clear, and my hair stopped falling out. I did notice that I would have heart palpitations every night, and that cuts on my fingers would get infected and take a very long time to heal, and that I was peeing like crazy around noon and throughout the night, but those problems were minor compared to the major digestive disturbances I was experiencing before.
I began to read stories similar to mine, and I knew that carbohydrates were not the root of my problem. Besides, I used to eat all the carbs I wanted before I was concerned with this nutrition stuff and I felt great. Something had changed in my body and it could no longer effectively utilize carb-rich foods. I started to reconceptualize what health meant. Health is what I had when I was a kid — a robust body that can handle a wide variety of foods, a reservoir of energy. Health is not avoiding a bunch of “bad” foods and attaining a magical state of dietary perfection.
So I began eating more carbs, and slowly my health problems returned. They returned with a vengeance. Since eliminating all carbs helped me before I tried it again out of desperation, but my condition worsened with this second attempt. I couldn’t digest anything, I couldn’t focus, and often I felt so bad I didn’t want to interact with other people. My heart would race and my brain would fog after every meal I ate. My lymphatic system was clogged up to the point of pain. I’m sure I was on my way to ulcerative colitis. With every diet I tried and every rule I followed, low-carb or high-carb or whatever, my health health worsened, aside from temporary improvements in some areas. I lost all trust in my mental ideas about health and diet because each one failed me miserably, and certainly, no external authority could tell me how to get healthy. So what was the alternative? I abandoned everything I thought I new about nutrition. I started to listen to my body and only my body 100% of the time. I really had no choice. That was the first time in my life I ever did that. It’s not that I never listened to my body before; if I was thirsty I would drink water. Duh! But until that point I was always operating within the framework of some dietary dogma I created for myself. It was quite something to let go of all that mental garbage, and learn to actually trust myself. To trust that my body knew exactly what it needed. Everything that went into my mouth was judged, not based on what I read was “good” or “bad”, but how it reacted in my body and what my body was craving. Since I made that change, it’s been a slow, but steady healing process. All of my health problems have vastly improved. I’m hardly in a state of robust health, but I’m no longer on a downward spiral of disease. Not quite a fairy tale ending. My guess is it will take at least as long to regain my health as it did to lose it.
At one point, I thought I knew a lot about nutrition. I knew what caused disease and what created health. I fanatically pursued those practices for many years in an extremist fashion. And then life kicked me in the nuts. If there is one thing I do know, it’s that no food or macronutrient is inherently good or bad. The “goodness” or “badness” of any food can only be determined in relationship to the body of the person that is consuming that food. Dietary rules are static, the body is not. Health has nothing to do with the amount of “good” foods you consume and the amount of “bad” foods you avoid; it has everything to do with how your body uses those foods, which is based on a long list of variables entirely unique to you. Give me any “good” food or any “healthy” habit, and I’ll give you a protocol to ruin your health with it. That includes vegetables, water, grass-fed organic animal products, raw butter from Jersey cows, exercise, fasting, or a low-carb paleo diet.
Incredible testimonial Luke, seriously…I’m always too tired after work to write that good! Do whatever with what I’m about to say…
I started to notice I was chubby in like 2nd or 3rd grade. It always bothered me. Everyone always told me I would grow out of it but I didn’t believe them. It got even worse when I noticed deep purple stretch marks. I had really big growth spurts, and I guess I would attribute that to my bilateral osgood schlatters disease I was diagnosed with. You know, the swollen knee cap deal. My mother was/is big, and I knew I took after her side of the family more so that didn’t sit with me well either. Every year I would say to myself that I would exercise and lose the weight. I don’t remember thinking about food much when I was younger. But I never did the exercises, instead I would be on the computer or watch TV. Computer games can seriously suck you in, and I still think they’re awesome haha, if only I had time to play them! Anyhow, at about age 16 I started to read a lot more about nutrition and stuff on the internet. I don’t remember what caused this, but it probably had something to do with me looking up my moms health problems or something. And I’m sure it had plenty to do with tired of being self conscious, lack of girls, etc…To make a long story short with the beginning of that, I started to read food labels, avoided things with a thousand ingredients, stayed away from “empty calories” such as pop and stuff. This was a slow evolution that took place but I always went back to reading and developing more of what I thought was the right way. The longer I read, the further I was digging myself into a hole. I did lose weight, and it was awesome. I walked a lot more, drank crap loads of water, but also there was a dark side of being a teenager. I drank a lot of alcohol when I wasn’t busy reading or eating things I thought were healthy. Growing up I didn’t have much guidance so I was doing whatever I wanted. For a few years I had ups and downs with achieving that healthy look I’ve always wanted. Depression, drinking heavily on the weekends, bouts of failure where I’d eat whatever I wanted like whole bags of chicken nuggets. I don’t remember when I started to delve into low carbing and paleo to be honest. I can for certain say that I deprived myself of things I really needed at my most important stages of development. Not getting enough calories, and drinking on top of it. Wowzer…I would eat tuna, and chicken, and tons of green vegetables a lot of the time to “fill” me up. I’m almost six foot six and in retrospect I’m a damn fool for never considering that maybe the foods I was eating wasn’t giving me enough energy. There’s so much to say…I apologize as I always do for being “all over the place”. Basically, at one point, I had really bad acne (runs in the family) my hair was falling out pretty easy and it was already receded, and I felt like shit. I seriously would think about suicide. I think probably my adrenal glands giving me energy was the only thing that would pull me out of my slumps and get me motivated to be stricter and to read and learn more. During all of these years of trying different stuff (of which I would also try to tell other people what they should and shouldn’t do IDIOT) I never attained a six pack, or was muscular and lean like I wanted. I was most muscular when I wasn’t reading and was too busy with other things to think about my weight. I had big calves and was pretty strong too before I started this weird diet shit. I lost my calves, I probably stunted my growth, screwed with my puberty, the works. One day I said to myself, if you’re going to be bald, then you better get into shape. Call me shallow, or too self conscious, but I seriously couldn’t stand to live with myself being that fat bald guy with fucking pimples. So more reading I did, more exercise, the stricter I became. I ran across Sean Croxton, Mark Sission, Kurt Harris, a bunch of dudes, and was pretty much low carbing, whole foods, paleo whatever you wanna call it-ing. I lost a lot of weight, the most I ever have. I was really doing it this time, going all the way. I pulled myself together, started working, etc…My acne would flair up, then I would be strict about avoiding grains and dairy, it would get better, I would give in, blah blah blah, a vicious cycle. Never attained a body that I wanted though. I lost too much weight too fast, my skin is still very loose as I’m typing this. I lost a lot of muscle mass, I guess I was, somewhat am a skinny fat person. If anyone has read my other comments you would know that I started a very strenuous job, it broke me out really bad, I was almost passing out doing my work. I at one point went super low carb to try to really turn into a fat burner and fix my energy problems. Didn’t work. I think injuries were healing pretty slow too. Bruises, cuts and what not. Eventually I knew I had to increase my carbohydrates. I would do sweet potatoes at night, or regular potatoes but this still wasn’t enough. I’ve known about Matt Stone for a good while, and had heard his interview with Sean Croxton pretty far back I think. My memory I guess is a piece of shit, because I can’t even remember right now what led me to start reading this blog and seriously considering a different approach. It’s just the time of day for me I think…I’m all foggy I really need to eat lol, and when I do, it’s going to be epic. As it has been now for a couple months-ish. I wanna say my hair isn’t falling out anymore, but I could be wrong. Definitely gaining weight. Doing some serious smashing. Bowel movements are much better, food digests much better, hardly ever get light headed anymore. I also think since I have started to become conscious of diluting my bodies salts/sugars, I have less charlie horse issues as well. Food sensitives have gone WAY down. I haven’t been doing this for that long but seriously, the higher my temperature, it’s like nothing gives me IBS. High gluten flour pizza’s, two of them at one sitting a couple of times, haven’t given me any problems. Juice, a whole tub of ice cream at one point, I haven’t had those crazy cramps and the urge to you know what from all this “shit” I’ve been eating. It’s incredible, I’m going to keep doing it and have what I want. When I make more money I’ll look into mineral supplementation for sure. I missed a thousand points, and could say a billion more things, but the bottom line is, for a long time I thought I knew what I was doing and I was dead wrong. I hope I didn’t hurt anybody by giving them the wrong advice. And the paleolithic movement definitely has some really positive perspectives don’t get me wrong. I almost forgot to say that I was having tooth pain pretty bad at some points while working a few months ago. There is a interview with some dental “expert” with Sean Croxton and he talks about how liver and butter oil etc..can help your teeth tremendously. I would buy liver and eat a lot of it even though I don’t like it and it would seem to make the pain go away but I don’t know exactly what was happening. I never do know what is happening I suppose lol. Matt, edit my stuff, mash my comments together, I don’t care. Do with it as you please. I really can compose myself better if I have the proper means I promise lol. I mine as well be drunk right now though to be honest. Actually sounds kinda good right now, but I think I’ll smash my half of pizza, rice with cheese and butter ETCETERA I am thankful that I am still alive and my journey has definitely been quite the learning experience and I will continue to read about the body and food relationship but with a much….screw it, let some other reader finish that. You big word people you. Namaste? =P
Great stuff Luke. I agree that paying attention to what you crave and how your body responds to it is extremely important. What’s scary is that, on a low-carb diet, things like fruit become very poorly-tolerated over time with the more meat and fat you eat. To the point where you get cavities from eating berries! I couldn’t eat any sugar at all, which is why I was such a low-sugar advocate for so long. Only to later find out that sugar was not a problem. My diet and the physical state of my health at the time made sugar a problem. The only thing I notice from eating sugary foods now is that my teeth are much better, and that I feel a heck of a lot better.
Dental health is one area where the “there are no inherently good or bad foods” holds true. At one time I had a list of foods that I thought were good for my teeth:
– Cod liver oil, skate liver oil
– Liver
– Cultured milk
– Cheese
– Butter, butter oil
– Bone marrow
– Bone broth/stock
– Fish stock
– Kelp and other sea veggies
– Vegetable juice
– Molasses
– Fish eggs (look for discarded carcasses at fish markets)
– Raw cream
– Mustard and tomalley (innards of crab and lobster)
– Animal glands
– Brains
– Intestines
– Blood
– Fish (raw or fermented), especially eyes and head
– Oysters and clams (raw)
– Raw milk
– Supplements
- Ca, Mg
- Clays
- Si, S, Mn, Cu, Zn, B (mixed forms like chelates) (3-6 mg/day)
- Vit-C
And things that I thought were “bad” for my teeth:
– Unsoaked, unsproated grains, nuts, and seeds
– Sugar, fruit
I adhered to this list pretty religiously, eating huge amounts of grass-fed raw butter, butter oil, skate liver oil, organ meats, bone marrow, fish head stock, and high-mineral foods and supplements. I also avoided nearly all fruit, processed foods, and grains. I binged on nuts occasionally (it was an allowed food).
The result? My teeth stopped getting worse, but never really healed. And when I did eat fruit, say three oranges, my teeth would hurt! I should have had teeth of steel but instead they hurt when I ate a couple pieces of fruit! Another factor was that my sleep was so fucked up that I was grinding my teeth every night.
It’s not that those foods aren’t important for the teeth, but only in context with the individual’s body. My teeth are feeling much better now, even with all the evil sugar in fruit and ice cream and with eating starch with every meal.
These stories are all so interesting. You know, the healthiest guy I know eats “well” but not in the paleo sense. He eats everything, but mostly tons of carbs – like lots of legumes, grains, starches, (mostly unrefined stuff) as well as a good amount of veggies and some protein and a small amount of fat. He eats meat, but it is a minor part of his diet. When he goes out to eat he’ll have whatever he wants, though. He even drinks almond milk and soy milk. And not a lot of sugar but some. He works out like 4 times a week, mostly weights. I’m actually dating him so I am privy to additional info and besides the fact that he has a sick body, lets just say he is quite the stud, too, and I don’t ever worry about any sort of “issues” in the bedroom. Oh, and he’s in his early 40s but looks 10 years younger and his body does, too.
amy is he asian? sounds like the way I would be eating had I not stumbled on this stupid health journey. and soy milk is somethign I’m still confused about, because we’ve had it all the while in asian cultures, and then it became the “in” thing, and then -as with all “in” things- it got lots of bad publicity and I don’t know what to think of all these soy bashing. I don’t really eat any unfermented sory now, but just because it’s hard to get fresh ones (they taste entirely different from the packaged soy milk in the stores) where I live now i.e. the UK, but I love it when I go back home in summer, have a big bowl of soy milk curd and tofu in soups probably a good few times a week.
No, he’s hispanic. I don’t know that soy milk is doing him much good, much it doesn’t seem to be hurting him either. He grew up (or at least as a teenager ) eating lots of junk, and then moved to eating this way in his early 20s and realized how much better he felt. He’s been doing it ever since. The soy milk is more recent, though, I think.
I concur, and applaud your list too.
Luke, although I might not have all of your same experiences, your story really resonated with me (except for life kicking me in the nuts–haha). I thought I knew a lot about nutrition since the early 1970′s and the last few years I’ve read much more and tried different diets and simply lost my health and gotten more confused. I am at the starting point of trying to get my health back—and my autoimmune thyroid disease is at its worst and not helping the situation at all. But I still have hope–hope that my body can heal if I listen to it and give it what it needs. And avoid all the diet dogma. This thread is fantastic and I thank everyone for sharing their stories, and Matt for the courage to challenge us to THINK.
Debbie, sounds like life kicked you in the ovaries.
Anyone that makes all their dietary decisions based on guidance from their body is crazy, at least according to the logical mind. After all, there is no proof that you are going to get healthy by listening to your body. It’s an experiment. But when all the mental garbage fails you and your body is falling apart, there is really no other choice. I’m very glad it happened to me.
I’m not sure it’s even possible to truly follow that guidance if a deep trust in yourself isn’t there in all areas of your life. It takes courage to let go of controlling your life. For me, letting go of controlling my diet happened at the same time I let go of controlling my life. I can’t separate the two. If a person can’t trust that voice in them that says, “don’t go to work, quit your job” or “leave this relationship, it’s not good for you” then I don’t think they can trust the voice that tells them what to eat.
Wow Luke. Now that is a comment!
Luke,
I agree 200%. I want to cry over the lost life hours I spent on this stuff. More on that in a sec. For now re your statement “I can’t separate the two. If a person can’t trust that voice in them that says, “don’t go to work, quit your job” or “leave this relationship, it’s not good for you” then I don’t think they can trust the voice that tells them what to eat”…..
Trust is the key, and you stated that so very well in the above. But I wonder if it really should be switched around a bit, i.e. we don’t trust the voice inside on anything, like leaving a bad job or relationship, because we don’t trust it in the most basic, most important, life-giving aspect: that of feeding ourselves. If you can’t trust yourself in something that involves only you and keeping you alive, how can you trust it in much more complex and complicated matters involving the outside world, other people, and events out of your control? I have to think that’s part of the problem with this country, that we at the most basic level do not trust ourselves and look to authorities to answer everything for us and tell us what to do and how to do it. We have lost our most basic liberty in handing over making those decisions (what/when/how to eat, exercise, even think!) to “authorities.” It is so sad.
After losing about 45 lbs over 25 years ago (all I did was eat what I wanted, but I let myself get and enjoy being a little hungry sometimes, like simply not eating lunch) and keeping it off all these years, you’d think I would be happy and sane. For the most part, I am okay with my weight, BUT….I started getting interested in “health.” That’s when I started hop-scotching all over the flippin’ place, from vegan to paleo and every square in between, wasting hours, days, weeks, and months of my life reading about them, as well as preaching to others about them, spending loads of money on foods I would otherwise NOT eat (coconut cream or oil in coffee?? Seriously???) and getting to the point of almost crying because I was so tired of it all, but I couldn’t stop reading. In fact, even reading this interesting blog and post is evidence of that! I just want to STOP. Cold turkey. I have to get my life back, my calm mind back, my self-trust back.
You know, my great grandmother (whose genes I hope I have!) lived to be 95, had all her babies at home, was not sick up until the very last couple of months of her life, yet she ate whatever she wanted. Being in rural Alabama, you can bet that was NOT bean sprouts, weird mushroom teas, coconut oil, and yogurt. She even chewed snuff. :-) Thing is, she never ate very much of anything. To me, I think that’s key. Most of all, she didn’t read a lick about nutrition, diets, exercise, or health. Gotta think that was a major component in her long, healthy life.
Thanks to you all for sharing your experiences. I wish you all Godspeed as you recover and get your lives back.
When I was low-carb paleo and I would crave fruit or starch I would often binge on an “allowed” foods instead, eating quantities of difficult to digest foods that my body would have never wanted had I never made all my diet rules. So instead of eating fruit or some bread, I would eat disgusting quantities of nuts or cheese or something, foods that I don’t even want anymore now that I’m allowing myself to eat whatever my body desires. Looking back, that was insane. I had actually convinced myself that is was healthier to binge on foods like that rather than just eat some ice cream. My definition of health was purely mental.
I’m loving bob dean and big kitten’s testimonials. don’t even want to write my on because they pretty much summed everything up so well I don’t know how to go about writing something that’s not pretty much the same.
this is a great great way to open the eyes of the paleo low-carb community.
oh and bob, i’m still not giving up on my natural skincare solutions. my forehead is really flaring up now, but goign to give it another month or so before i return to the topical acne treatments. really hope my carb overload and stopping of all high intensity workouts are going to finally heal my body and put an end to the acne and this insane ‘health’ journey. trying out neem leaf and tea tree oil and meditation, fingers crossed.
I kind of wished I never even thought about wanting to get healthier, if i stuck to my old way of eating, basck in the days where i really just ate what I thought looked good without a single heck of consideration for how “healthy” it is and was totally utterly perplexed as to why people would diet. I would actually be way better off right now. hmm, but a lot less knowledgeable maybe? I guess we all learn.
I’m really glad about everything I’ve learned and if I was ignorant and didn’t like to read I suppose I would be a lot less interesting. Not to say I think I am haha. I don’t like to regret things I’ve done, but I just wish I had a full head of hair. I always loved havin a bunch of hair when I was younger, grow it out a bit for the summer, swimmin, floppin it around, headbangin, all that good stuff =P For about 3 years I did the acne “regimen” that I’m doing now and was able to stay almost completely clear no matter what I did. Then my mother and I couldn’t afford it so I stopped. It didn’t come back for a while I think. But when it did come back I was reading a lot about how to stop it naturally and tried a lot of different things. Ultimately some things I tried would clear me up pretty decent but I couldn’t pin point exactly what worked and what didn’t. When I started to make money I was being stubborn and didn’t want to go back to the regimen. That was a mistake. It seriously works, acne.org’s 2% benzoyl peroxide topical solution (the regimen must be followed, although I’m not as gentle as they prescribe, and depending on your skin and metabolism getting used to it can take a few weeks) is the shit and the most gentle I’ve ever come across. (if anyone is interested just ask, I can answer any regimen questions you may have, benzoyl allergies do exist) I’ll take the risk for now, because the stress it was causing and the pain has got to be much worse than putting the medicine on my skin. Benzoyl is doin the same thing is tea tree oil in that its killin the bacteria, only what I do is left on the face, 2 times a day. And, indeed our brains get us into trouble. For example, how babies naturally squat when goin number 2, the right way. With all the information out there, we cannot help but get lost in it, and it’s a gamble of whether or not you come out the other side screwed or enlightened or both I guess lol. I felt the same way about other peoples testimonials lol. I thought mine sucked and that the other people summed it up so well that I shouldnt say anything. I thank you for your kind words. Go ahead, post something, you’ve got nothing to lose and people to help. Forgive me if you have posted something already I haven’t read a lot of the new comments yet.
I’ll forward you the best acne advice I was given back in my days: Don’t wash your face with soap, or with anything else that is not water. Pretty much as soon as I started following that advice, my acne disappeared. I still do that; I wash my body and hair like everyone else, but try to keep the soap off my face.
Maybe I just grew out of it, but seriously I don’t think so because even though I’m older now I still get pimples elsewhere in my body… but not in the face! (except for the odd small pimple once every three months or so).
I guess it’s the same principle: stop torturing your body with acne treatments/diets/marathons/whatnot and it will fix itself somehow ;)
I’ve always wondered about the negatives of excessive cleansing – both of skin and teeth. My teeth hurt a lot more when I brush frequently. As long as I don’t brush every day they feel great. And they are healthier than they’ve ever been after brushing them only a few times per week for the last 5 years. Make ya wonder. Thanks for the interesting comment.
Matt-
I have been house bound now for three years from adrenal fatigue. The first year was spent in bed. Everything was taken away from me,; I was told not to eat sugar, no caffeine, no alcohol, no fruit and the worst of all : No wheat. That one was particularly torture because wheat is in everything!! I was eating tons of meat, eggs and veggies and supplementing with a ton of vitamin C to “heal my adrenals.” When ever I felt bad, the dootor told me to use more vitamin C. Somedays I was up near 15,000 mg. I must have HUNDREDS of dollars of supplements in my cabinet all promising to make me feel like a rock star. At this point, I d be lucky if they even got me close to Barry Manilow!
I finally got strong enough to get out of bed, and can now do some laundry, and cook meals, but beyond that, I’m worn out. This has been a tough situation to accept because I used to exercise often and spend long days pushing a wheel barrel around my property. I wasn’t a wimp. Now I’m exhausted lifting the Brita water pitcher out of the frig.
I continued on with my diet because that is what this adrenal expert doctor told me to do. But I missed toast. I missed pasta. Giving up the fruit and coffee was hard, but it paled in comparison to having to give up wheat products. But believing I was “healing” myself, I carried on. I was, after all, getting better, or so I thought because I was finally out of bed, but being house bound for three years? Please! I am NOT better! So imagine my delight when I read Ann Marie’s post explaining the whole RRARF concept. Maybe I felt like shit because I wasn’t having enough carbs. Yippee!! I could have toast!
So, 6 days ago, I started eating…and eating. And now? I feel like shit again. My body feels like it has been hit by a truck. My head is dizzy and fuzzy and I am having a really hard time concentrating. My arms feel like they weigh a thousand pounds a piece, brushing my hair made me feel like I had to sit down. BUT, my temperature is up! My toes are warm and the blue in them is starting to go away. I don’t have the furnace cranked up to the “hell” setting because I am actually feeling warm! So I ask…..
Do I stick with this? I see the benefit in my rising temps., but man do I just want to crawl in bed and get the aches in my body to go away! Am I almost over the hump? Will this get better? Give me a reason to carry on! *she says as she collapses into her chair feigning exasperation*
If I were you Susan I would definitely keep up the rarffing and it may take a long time for you to feel better, but I think you’re on the right track. Don’t avoid carbs for sure if you have adrenal problems. You can continue what you’re doing, and read more and make adjustments based on how you feel and what you’ve learned. A good idea would probably be a consultation with Matt or something. I would definitely rest whenever you feel the need to and don’t feel guilty about it or anything like that. Resting is like taking those supplements you’ve spent so much money on only it really works. Good luck
I would suggest never listening to an expert again. Try out their ideas for yourself. You are on the right track with the carbs. You’ll find lots of good ideas here to try out for yourself. When I first starting eating carbs, all my problems got worse. It will take some time and some personal experimentation.
Have you tried monitoring your urine sugars with a refractometer? This was huge for me. I was having serious adrenal activation every day around noon, until I learned to tweak my drinking and eating.
I’ve also found that during the middle of the day, it’s best for me to avoid all animal protein and eat 100% starches and sugars, and maybe little fat. Otherwise my adrenals go crazy.
Reason to carry on….What else are you gonna do?
Luke,
You make me laugh.
Susan, I agree with Luke. You need a refractometer! I was where you are too.
I am so much better. I was couch bound. I haven’t spent a day on the couch
in months now. :)
I have thanked Matt multiple times. :)
I am not up to going back to work. But, I think the day is coming. :)
Work? Nooooo!!!!
Matt, LOL work can be a good thing. :)
Matt, How do you recommend going off GAPS? I was strict GAPS for a year (and it really really helped me, so I’m not anti-GAPS, but I don’t like the whole low carb thing) Then I got pregnant and ate still kind of GAPS but more Ray Peatish, a lot of fruit and dairy as well as some potatoes. Grain still bothers me though and I’d like to be able to eat some. Plain milk bothers me a little too, though I can have some. Do I just push through symptoms? Note that my symptoms aren’t ones that developed while on GAPS but that I had before and they went away on GAPS, but I want them to stay away off GAPS too.
I started eating Paleo about a year ago this month and I feel great. I have had some bouts with eating a lot of sweets around Halloween and other holidays but in general, I feel great. More energy in areas of my life. I feel like I get enough carbs because of all of the vegetables I eat.
I don’t follow Paleo to a T but I have made the following changes. If it’s not processed I will eat it. If it’s got a bunch of refined sugar, I won’t eat it. If has anything that ends in “ose” i will not eat it. I just like eating natural and local. Feels better.
Chris Kesser Just Jumped the Shark:
http://paleorecipes.chriskresser.com/
Danny Roddy left and all hell broke loose. Shame really, I liked Chris.
Interesting website. I recently discovered the paleo world of blogs and, as I try to when looking at a concept I like the sound of, I’ve been looking at some sites which criticize it.
I am in mid 20s, have been overweight since age 12, had lots of issues with dry skin and sugar cravings, and had tried low-carb stuff a few times but never lasted longer than about 3 days. I lost weight quite successfully at Curves over a couple years but then gained more back when my lifestyle changed again.
I had first read Nourishing Traditions shortly after it was published and found it extremely interesting. About six years ago I found a source for raw milk and switched to that and it immediately cured some of my skin redness and a certain kind of pimple that I used to have. However, I still had very severe sugar cravings, spent a lot of money on chocolate and brownie mixes, ice cream, stuff like that, even though I really, really felt lousy after eating those things and hated the way I was putting weight on. I also had joint aches and pains, I started to have what I later discovered were symptoms of lymph problems, I had depression and anxiety, very low energy, my fair skin always looked red and inflamed, dental issues, itchy scalp, very frequent urination, etc. Oh, and I was also too poor for health care during most of this time.
I had heard of the Paleo Diet a few times before but every time I ran across articles they said no dairy and I was like, “Over my dead body!” and dismissed the concept.
Well, in October last year I found MDA and began reading several other blogs. The Wheat Belly one especially intrigued me. I was not a big grains person ever since I stopped eating sandwiches for lunch after deciding they were boring, but the wheat being a problem made a LOT of sense to me. My stomach looked JUST like what they described. I also watched the series on eating for chronic problems by Dr. Terry Wahls.
I started eating more of sardines, local grassfed beef (especially liver), salmon, plantains, veggies, and coconut oil than I had been. (Actually, I had never tried sardines before this) At the same time I completely cut out grains and mostly substituted yams for potatoes (white potatoes have made me feel funny for years anyway, I think because of the chemicals, since organic ones are better). I’ve been trying not to do tons of nuts and I supplement sometimes with potassium. I’ve been keeping track of everything on Fitday and trying to make sure I eat ENOUGH every day to reach the minimum of nutritional targets. The first week I had pretty severe carb flu, but then for the first time in a LONG time I stopped having constant hunger and even stopped having sugar cravings.
I also started trying very hard to go to sleep early enough (no insomnia ever, just luurrve the internet : -D) and changed my exercise routine to, well, not much. Pull-ups on a tree a couple times a week, planking, some walking, a sprint every now and then.
Since then I’ve lost over 16 pounds (haven’t checked in a while) and my body temp is going up (though I’ve never had cold hands and feet, I had tested 97.6 once at the doctor when I was least healthy), I am noticing real strength gains, I can walk for a mile or more without having to drink water, urinate much less frequently, my joint aches have gone away to such a degree that my bed usually feels like a cloud now and I can do things/sit in positions I’d been avoiding for a long time, my lymph system is getting its act together, a rather large heel injury I just got from stepping on something is almost healed in less than two weeks, my cycle is getting much more healthy, my SKIN IS NATURALLY MOIST AND NO LONGER INFLAMED LOOKING (ahem, sorry, big huge deal to me), and even my hair texture feels different, more luxurious somehow.
When I started this I told myself the goal was to make sure I ate often enough and packed in enough nutrition every day and basically be kind to myself in every way. That’s the vibe I have gotten from the paleo/primal diet so far and I think it’s working so far. I keep having so much energy and going and doing things that I’ve wanted to do for years, like in the yard, but that I could never work myself up to doing because they seemed like they took too much energy.
I’ll keep monitoring this website to get “the other side,” but I guess I feel at the moment like it’s a bit of a straw man that you are attacking. I have not been around the scene as long as you, of course, but you are definitely attacking the whole restrictive mentality whether low-carb or vegan or whatever; whereas, trying to make sure you get enough nutrition for your body to run is a large part of the message I have been getting from these paleo sites.
Oh, both my sister and I have had what are borderline eating disorders – me with the constant binging on sugar, her with avoiding sugar way too strictly. She has been underweight for a long time despite eating large amounts of food, and had quite a few health problems as well. We room together at the moment and she has gained weight and become quite a bit stronger/feeling better, on basically the same diet.
What I find scarier than the paleo sites is the fact that mainstream nutrition has somewhat jumped on the low-carb bandwagon. My doctor said something to me at my last visit about lowering carbs. I have seen Joy Bauer, the Today Show nutritionist, talking about low-carb. If mainstream tries low-carb/Paleo, I can only imagine the resulting health issues. And since they don’t show up for awhile, will people connect the dots? I dated a guy last year who was in his mid-twenties and avoided carbs and too many calories. He could not get it up (we didn’t date for very long…), and he had all sorts of health issues, and not the best body comp either. And seeing this guy I’m dating now in his 40s, in far better shape than the younger guy, the difference is really clear.
Now you know why there is a mating season at the high latitudes in nature – only during the harvest time of year are carbohydrates abundant enough to trigger sex drive and functionality. If you want a year-round mating season, you better not be eating seasonally!!!
Haha great point!
Matt,
Been checking out this blog for about 7 months now, and have never commented, but this inspired me to finally speak! I have been folowing Paleo/ {Primal style eating since May ’10 and initially as others have stated I felt great energy wise, and went from 164 lbs to 152 lbs in a months time with a full 6 pack abs! I always figured I was carb sensitive so the results only convinced me more… fast forward to Sept 2011 and I have developed a “Full Blown” phobia of carbs, wouldn’t even eat a piece of cake for my daughter’s birthday, or the cheesescake (which I used to love) for my own birthday? I have suffered severe Insomnia and the cold hands, and at night sometimees the sweats are ridiculous waking up to use the bathroom several times even though I stop drinking fluids at 3 or 4 P.M.? Not even going to get me started on my SEX DRIVE! not to get too personal but I used to get some crazy erections and now I’m like huh?. Yesterday I was having dinner with a friend and it was about 73 degrees outside in Orlando and suddenly I became cold. I looked at my hands and my fingernails were a blueish color, showed my friend and they were like wtf?. I blew it off but am a bit concerned now. I’m having a beer as I type this because I’m soo stressed out and feeling extremely guilty about drinking the beer?. My roommate says I have become a completely different person, just irritable and short fused. He eats drinks and I watch with envy! too worried about regaining my weight which was initially 186lbs @ 5’5′? . Everyone tells me that all the meat and fat can’t be healthy without carbs and as much as I want to have carbs on a consistent basis, I’m seriously struggling too concerned with losing what I seemingly have achieved with this lifestyle.
All the experiences I have read has dealt with their own set of improvements/ setbacks. What needs to be addressed and realized here is that for those of us that are experiencing the negatives to this type of eating lifestyle, there has to be a better way. A way to maintain that leanness and initial mental clarity some of us have experienced via this lifestyle? Wish I could post pics but have no clue as to how to, just to prove that this is just not another “Paleo gone wrong” testimony but a real issue. I look at some of the fitness models and natural bodybuilders sometimes and wonder how the ones that advocate carbs daily (not just Veggies/ fruit) rather an rest day or not! manage to stay lean? To clarify not the ones who bulk/cut but the one’s who look good year round? I have no desire whatsoever to become a bodybuilder or anything but at my height I just want to be Healthy, Happy, and Lean while enjoying life and being sociable once again. Thanks Matt and readers…That is all!!!
Those blue fingers is Raynaud’s my friend. It comes from an extreme overactivation of the sympathetic nervous system. Of course, this activation of the symptathetic nervous system is precisely what is behind the short-term and elusive low-carb results. It kills appetite, increases mental focus and energy, increases fat burning…
It’s the same as taking Hydroxycut. I would rather see you eating Cap’n Crunch with the rest of us in the 180 Insane Asylum and taking Hydroxycut than continuing on the path you are on.
The night sweats and urination is from the concentration of sugar in your cells becoming so low that the only thing the body can do is dump out water to concentrate the sugar in your intracellular fluids. I would suggest locating one of those memory-erasing pens from the movie Men in Black and then going out and eating normal American food like a normal American boy with a carbohydrate emphasis. Remember that most junk foods are 50% fat or more. They aren’t as carby as people think they are.
If you rehab your metabolism and do some smart exercise with a high carb, high calorie diet you will eventually achieve the best physique you are capable of achieving, without this collateral damage.
But don’t panic. This is nothing that a big ass pizza and Sierra mist with free refills can’t fix.
Matt,
Honestly I am a huge fan of Cap ‘n Crunch as well as many other cereals I can name. So what do you think the best way to approach this would be? Not sure rather or not I mentioned that I fast daily too! I don’t really know where to start to be honest but I know something has to give and so far the only thing that has given has been my sanity as well as my relationship with food. I’ve always loved carbs and on the one day that I do eat them I go crazy and want nothing but carbs, and sweets. I enjoy working out and being active but don’t want to be obsessing over rather I will get regain all the weight back I have previously lost.
My alcohol tolerance has went as well, not that I’m big on drinking but I enjoy a few drinks on the weekend. Seriously I seem to always have to wear a hoody even in my apt because I feel cold most the time. I have enjoyed reading this article as well as the comments and some of the other comments/posts of other people here, and admit I feel a little envious when I hear about all this good food that most seem to enjoy, make my high protein/ high fat/ low carb diet seem so boring!!! Any suggestions you have would be greatly appreciated. Thanks again!
Just go crazy with it. The sooner you just get your body back to using carbs the better. And the more you eat the faster your carbohydrate metabolism and digestion will return to normal. The higher in carbs and the lower in fat, the less body fat you should gain in the process. I would eat tons of fruit, pastries, cookies, Cap’n crunch (with skim milk), and juice. Eat the sugary stuff all day long. You will crave it about 14 minutes after you finish eating anyway, so go with that. Let us know where you are at in a week. Sleep a lot. Sunbathe on warm days. And don’t track scale weight. It will scare the crap out of you as you gain back tons of glycogen (and water with it).
It is situations like yours that is the inspiration for writing this book. And facing the intense shitstorm of hate that I will enter into for writing it in the Paleo community.
hey matt
i think the pendulum is swinging too wildly when you recommend gluten filled junk food or sugary drinks. pufas gluten elimination are two good things to take from the paleo lesson. rest amys new boyfriend is pointing the direction in. using that and fitting it to the meal timings of rbti will give you the best results my friend. eliminating caffeinated beverages would be a step further in the right direction. just my 2 cents.
The Paleo lesson is to eat a buttload of PUFAS. What Paleo diet are you talkin’ bout?
Matt,
Ok, my roomate said to me… “U won’t do it! , too ccared of carbs bruh!!”. You are way more happy but soo worried bout staying ripped!. After the mocking I laughed and went to my room and began to think. I am the type of person who enjoys to speak thru Action vs. Verbal anyday and I love a challenge! I’m Indian ( Choctaw/ Cherokee, Irish) and a bit of African American. I train hard and as far composition muscularly.. I’m good!. I have been loading on carbs all day at a rate unlike any I have engaged in such a long time!! Will def keep u updated and will lower fats and see what happens.
Serving in both the Navy and Army I’m often asked how can you not be such an egotistical persona/ I answer sometimes with ” My granfather served both WW II and the Vietnam war and is one of the most humble men I know!!, asks for no recognition or anything, he lived and breathe his beliefs and tried many approaches as I will do the same.Thanks Matt and followers.. let’s see what happens!
If you are really REALLY obsessive about body composition, then at least eat like that 2 days per week. You’ll basically be on Dan Duchaine’s Body Opus at that point and be triggering supercompensation.
ah i was on saturated fat – i mixed raypeat into it. the rest of my comment about junk, and gluten and the future direction was the MAIN focus. showing the way to the indian buffet would be miles better than pushing towards SAD pizza burger junk imho.
I love this blog. I always feel like Alice in Wonderland when I come here, everything all topsy turvy. I always feel great when I keep my carbs on the lower side (which I’ve been doing for 7 years now) and feel like total crap when I add many carbs back. Not instantly, but over a period of time of highish carb eating I start to feel worse and worse and worse, until I can barely get out of bed. A few days of lower carbs and I’m usually ready to hit the gym again though. I’m more relaxed these days, and incorporate some rice and potatoes, etc in my diet. My new huge fave is tapioca pudding. But I still feel more like a human being when I keep my carbs on the lower end of the spectrum. I always feel like I’ve fallen down the rabbit hole when I read all these testimonials of people whose reactions are just the opposite. :-)
But since I’ve lost 125 pounds so far I’m not complaining. I’m happy with what I do. But I love reading all sorts of other viewpoints as I don’t want to get nutritional tunnel vision!
Went Paleo with a twist over a year ago. Raw milk ice cream, or rice, or quinoa, or homemade muffins out of coconut flour, or og. popcorn as a rare treat, say 2x’s a week at the most, some weeks no grains at all. We stayed on raw cheese, yogurt and raw milk kefir as part of our diet a few times a week.
My husband, lost 40 lbs.from 215 to 175 and lost his bulging gut in three months. His sinus infections went away and his blood pressure went from pre-hypertension to normal.
I lost only 5 lbs. but since gained it back. joint pain diminished greatly. the foggy brain episodes have wained.
On going — I have low-thyroid symptoms. low selenium and iodine. All thyroid levels are normal except for my reverse t3 is elevated. My Hemoglobin A1c is 5.9. In the last 5 months I have developed what I have diagnosed as LPR, Laryngopharyngeal Reflux…totally annoying with no break from the symptoms of feeling like something is stuck in my throat and belching. I have lost 10 lbs. in the last two months due to the lack of being able to eat average amounts with the LPR symptoms, before this time I could not drop the extra 20lbs. My doc wants me to eat only meat and veggies to try to get the A1c level lower. He’s putting me on bio-identical progesterone, thyroid supplement, blood glucose supplement and 40billion probiotic supplement.
I’ve been doing Paleo for over a year with raw dairy and the occasional rice, quinoa, and organic popcorn. Doc wants me off all grain, fruit, sweetners and dairy.
I really didn’t think blood sugar levels would be an issue for me, and certainly not something as crazy as LPR. Paleo has not helped me with these issues.
Sounds like time for a new diet, and, more importantly, a new doc. Eating more carbs is the way to get your A1C level down long-term. And RT3 down. But only in the right context (good sleep, high calorie levels, no endurance exercise, low stress levels, etc.) Eat the food!
(sigh) he is the new doc, #3 in the last 3-1/2 years. First a naturopath, second a chiro and now this guy considers himself a functional medicine doc. before these three I just didn’t do the doc thing.
These symptoms, except for the LPR and the a1c (could have been high, but i never had a level taken) have been annoyingly present for about five years before trying paleo. I’m sure things were going on before the five years, but the weight gain is what got my attention to seek out the naturopath, I just couldn’t lose it, plus the low thyroid symptoms were increasing. She didn’t treat the thyroid symtoms after normal labs, but told me to lessen carb intake saying my body couldn’t handle them and go off gluten, even though I tested fine with gluten and giladian.
With all I read about low carbing, it looked as if paleo would address some of these issues, it didn’t. The new FM doc thinks the main problem is low progesterone, I do know that’s an issue. I’m 55 and haven’t cycled for two months, so he wants to start me back with 100 mg of natural progesterone to see if we can get my cycles started back up again.
My next step is yet to be determined.
Why would your doc want to start your periods again….you are 55 and it’s normal to stop cycling? good luck with your health….you are working very hard I wish you well!
The low progesterone is caused by the low thyroid (the gland is probably fine, other reasons causing subdued metabolism). The Paleo diet, generally-speaking, is very anti-metabolic. Mostly due to the carb restriction but also because of reduced palatability and increased protein intake. Take your temps. Let’s get those up. You might want to see how you feel after getting your metabolism cranking before going back to letting others play God with your hormones in an isolated way.
Working on the temps, just now reading about all of that. I can be as low as 95.6. Working on adding more carbs…mentally and physically, not so easy.
As I understand it, Doc is trying to balance the estrogen and progesterone levels, I’ve been hesitant about filling the prescription.
Thanks for the post.
Eyes opening.
Yes, docs “try” to balance estrogen and progesterone levels. Progesterone usually rises with a rise in body temperature.
Why is it that paleo always gets stereotyped as low carb? I eat paleo and carbs comprise upwards of 50% of my calories on some days.Of course,these carbs come from things like fresh fruit and vegetables and not processed garbage.Call me crazy but I’ll take a steak and a baked potato with mixed vegetables over some fast food slop any day of the week.
I will agree that people that dread carbs are silly and any diet can be bad for you when taken to extremes,and some in the paleo community are way too quick to recommend a full blown ketogenic diet.I’ve seen great results just eating natural foods and not freaking out over calories,carbs,or anything else.I’m fairly certain our ancestors didn’t pass up tubers,fruits,and vegetables because they were afraid of carbs,much in the same way they didn’t pass on red meat for fear of colon cancer and all that nonsense.So much of modern nutrition these days is just fear mongering and people taking a potentially healthy concept,fucking up through sheer stupidity,then blaming the concept and running right to the next thing just to fuck that up too.I’ve seen some paleo folks say that things like salt,bacon,vinegar,cheese,and so on should never be eaten because “we didn’t have it back then”……really? We didn’t have advanced medical technology back then either,so I guess if I break my leg I should just rub mud and leaves on it and pray to the sun that it gets better.If your body starts telling you it wants carbs then give it some fucking carbs,but don’t go and binge on terrible processed junk food then blame the diet for not working when you set yourself up for failure to begin with.Calm the fuck down,have a potato or some banana slices with organic honey,and be glad that you can afford the luxury of living a modern life while still eating a relatively healthy diet.
As you can see I both agree and disagree with the points made.I don’t think paleo is as terrible as it’s made out to be by some people,it’s actually really beneficial if done with a bit of common sense.How the hell can you end up being a mess from eating whole and natural foods? Here’s a hint,it isn’t the diet,it’s you doing something stupid and not listening to your body.
Whoa, I just found your site and this post and the COMMENTS! Quite a discussion going on here, love it! Just ate my meal accompanied by these stories and views. :-)
Anyway, MY story, if you’re interested. Currently I am a 33 year old female, been always working out a lot and very active, Crossfit since 2007. Since late teens I’ve paid attention to what I eat due to my sports hobbies.
First I ate like a decade of low fat including aspartame and all that shit, light cheese and stuff. Tons of quark, cottage cheese, tuna. Tho I DO love them, or I WOULD if I’d still eat those.
Then started going low carb and that went well, shed some body% but only after some years on low carb. Was always normal, athletic size/build. Got to know paleo and went fully paleo in 01/2010. Before I was quite low carb but still are some dairy. I haven’t been eating grains in years really.
Anyway, I was in optimal shape and condition when going paleo. First it seemed to make things even better; I shed some more body% ending up at 15% which was pretty lean for me (was 17% for years). When going paleo I also read Nora Gedgaudas’s book Primal body Primal mind. She totally convinced me that ALL carb is bad and you want to minimise insulin. So I quit eating fruit, tubers and roots and berries. Two months after (four months on paleo) things started to accumulate.
First I rapidly lost 3-4 kgs when I had a diarrhea for a month. Then I started gaining FAST. I was also so, so tired, worn out, didn’t recover from exercise, was freezing cold all the time, my period was absent, no sex drive, anxiety attacks (or something like that, never saw anyone about these but bursts or anger or despair) and a dozen other symptoms. Because I was gaining weight fast my solution was to eat even LESS carbs and exercise MORE! Winner.
My cortisol went sky high and I went on eating low carb for 1,5 still after things accumulating. My weight stayd at 13 kgs higher than I’d been for years before and it still is. In 03/2011 I got myself subclinical hypothyroidism diagnose and started T4. First it helped a little but not for long. I also got terrible joint pain.
Then finally at the end of 08/2011 things started to unravel and I had my RT3 tested. It was super high compared to my T3. I started T3 only meds in 09/2011 and since then my symptoms have all resolved. All except weight gain, but I’m determined to get back into my own size whatever it takes. Since I believe that what caused high RT3 originally was ketogenic diet plus excessive exercise = stress, I think I should be able to get off meds little by little. I got my recent labs last week and they looked good: TSH 0,006, T4 5,2 and T3 4,0. Hb 140 and ferritin 81 (5-100).
Oh yes, about the diet; I still eat “paleo” ie. no grains, no dairy, no sugar, no legumes and I stick to it like 95%, sometimes a little cheese. But after reading stuff by Paul Jaminet I added safe starches aka rice to my diet two months ago. I’ve felt good. Still, I’m SO looking forward to lose some weight. Any ideas? ;-D
And I was one of those that once they start something they’ll stick to it to stupidity… I followed paleo to a T, really. Low carb paleo, needless to mention. A bit obsessive mind as I am. :-) Luckily I’ve been able to exercise the whole time (or actually I just wouldn’t give it up despite how wrecked I was at a time because it’s so important for me) and I’m never sick.
Anyway, almost everything has improved. Now just trying to figure out what to do about the weight… Been cutting down fat consumption now that I eat more carbs.
Long story, sorry for that! Hope the info’s useful for someone :-)
Thanks!
Awesome. That’s why I say “Ignora Gedgaudas.”
:-D Funny guy!
But seriously, I’m quite pissed that I fucked myself up for several years thanks to those guidelines… Now that I’ve normalized my thyroid (blood) levels (last week’s labs) I started to count calories. I’ve eaten much but now I’ll try to eat even less to lose the weight finally. I cut down fats and eat a lot of protein and try to get enough carbs as well (approx. 100g per day). But it’s difficult to eat carbs after all these low carb years! I just FORGET to eat them. That’s also why it’s good to count for awhile.
Any words of encouragement regarding losing the weight? O_O ANYTHING?
I would read more posts and maybe go read some of Chiefrok’s posts too, and take some fukitol, it’ll get those cortisol levels even lower.
words of encouragement for losing weight?
Do not consciously restrict calories under any circumstance ! ! recipe for disaster as far as weight in concerned. If it does not happen automatically your doing it wrong and it will simply come back. only about 3 % of people succeed that way and in my opinion it has nothing to do with the imposed restriction it was simply coincidence.
5 % of people could probably navigate their way through a new city on accident but it does not mean they have esp powers.
I asked for encouragement you guys?! :-D
Oh well, I have to add that I’m not really traditionally counting calories but just basically tracking what I’m eating. Well okay, in that sense I am counting calories that I wanted to drop the fats a little and make sure I was eating enough carbs (hard – doesn’t happen naturally after years of low carb).
I hear you about fukitol but would need some more tools. I’ve been with this (extra) weight for two years now and I’d finally want to lose some… I never had to worry about this before this no carb ruined me. Sucks but whatcha gonna do.
I shall look into Chiefrok’s blog. O_O
Forgot to mention; I also IF (intermittent fasting)! That was a SUPER combo with mile high cortisol levels :-D I’m sort of surprised that I’m still alive after those high cortisol/low blood sugar days, or that everyone around me is!
Dear Mr.Stone,
My story is very long&complex but I hope you (all) maybe could help me.
As a kid I’ve always been chubby,was always ‘the best friend’ kinda person but never the one the boys would go for. I never found myself really pretty bc I had somewhat of a male body pattern (fat stomach,hairgrowth on places it should not grow etc.). So years ago I decided I could only become lean if I’d start to exercise. At first it was,3days a week of cardio,which over the years derailed into obsessive-compulsive 6days a week!(Also out of fear bc I couldn’t stop eating desserts,bread,pasta etc.) I kept yoyoing and became more&more critical of my food; I’d live on (sugary) lowfat products,microwave meals etc. and lived for dining out with friends!
So,finally my mom decided enough is enough and sent me to the doctor….whom sent me to a dietician. He ‘taught’ me how much carb (from whole wheat,lentils,rice,potatoe etc.)&proteine I needed and very little fat,no sugar,without exercise. That’s when things got really out-of-hand bc I needed to constantly calculate/weigh/measure stuff (which I before didn’t do despite all my OCD behaviour regarding exercise). I began to get really tired and sometimes after certain meals I felt like I’d about to pass out….
So after a detour I discovered I have chronic Lyme for at least 10years now,with gut dysbiosis and other parasites,mold,viruses etc. Due to my food intolerance testing about a year ago,I came upon Paleo. At first it was great,but then I got into trouble by reading all kinds of blogs/messages etc. about exercise,IF,eat when hungry,weight gain on Paleo etc.
Recently I also found a horoscope,made when I was about 8years old,which clearly stated that ‘non-stimulating food’ is the best for my health. I’m constantly struggling in my head about what foodgroups are meant by this,whenever i get food binges: is it sugar,gluten/grains/bread,dairy? ….i know for sure msg.
I feel totally derailed,concerning feeling like I have a normal eating pattern of healthy 3meals a day,because I’m constantly fearing I’ll get fat again,feeling like I’m never doing/moving enough without exercise so I’m constantly searching for things to do/keep moving. I’m constantly breaking my head/worrying about what to eat/how to incorporate it in daily life when I actually have a job. This is also an issue bc I just don’t know anymore what I’d like to do with my life….I feel like I’m drowning in an endless sea with no land in sight.
I kinda have a love/hate relationship with exercise,bc I really feel resistant towards joining a gym again or joining a club having to be somewhere ‘on the clock’. Yet I also don’t feel good doing nothing or if I have to do something by myself like I’m not really (vigorously) exercising/doing enough.
The last two weeks I’m derailing and eating various kinds of stuff which I probably shouldn’t but they make me mentally feel good,yet I also worry/have the feeling that I’m becoming ‘addicted’ again on the wrong foods. Especially bc I also read so many posts about the bad (gut) bacteria steering one towards eating the unhealthy foods and controlling ones feelings (so I always get the feeling,that whenever I enjoy foods/feel good it’s actually not ood at all!). On Paleo/GAPS I still keep fearing the amount of fat (now also in relation towards carbs as a fatgainer),yet I also know what I’m doing is a crutch ’cause the stuff I’m bingeing on now is higher in carbs and probably fat too! (even unhealthy ones).
My adrenals are stressed…..my energetic therapist urged me to eat 6times a day. At the moment I don’t even eat 3meals a day anymore,partially bc I feel that once I do I start to gain (I actually need a little upper bodyfat&boobs) I still won’t feel better and keep having all these food related issues.
I’m constantly going over in my head,what caused me to gain weight that much…..lack of nutrients,carb/gluten/sugar addiction, eating too much,lack of exercise in the past and too much the last couple of years,food toxins which store as fat,too much vegetable oils,all kinds of stressors in life (while also not knowing of the chronic illness)….?!
I’d like to become a balanced person eating healthy and not wanting to derail anymore and if I ever indulge in some situations that it’s ok,that I’ll not totally binge on all kinds of food bc ‘they taste that good’ or “i miss them so much’ but being moderate with eating it,feeling satisfied and not get addicted again!:’(
All food is addicting when you are starving. You are going to have to megadose on Fukitol if you’re going to succeed. Courage Dutchie. Courage!
I really wish it would be that easy…..However some food does something to my brainchemistry,which makes me not want to eat healthy or at least keep most of it healthy anymore and I easily become ‘addicted’. Plus there’s the Lyme and other parasites who love to feast on those foods!
In my OCD Cardio period I was quite lean,apart from the stubborn bellyfat,however I wasn’t eating really nutritious&healthy foods.So,I was lean yet all these ‘wrong’ foods messed up my internal organs (spleen,pancreas,gut,thyroid,adrenals,brains)&hormones badly and led to lots of inflammation,gut dysbiosis etc. Although I like the comment of fukitol (yes,I own the book of Fuck it! too) and the ‘free ride’ it’s giving me,I don’t think it’s a more complicated situation for me than just eating whatever I love (pizza,various desserts,bread etc. aren’t that healthy,sugar in general and I’m afraid I’d become too addicted to it all again and not being able to kick the addiction anymore:( ).
But the problem’s also that I don’t really care for potatoes,rice,legumes,nuts,fruits,milk (the only time I used to eat fruit,is when it comes in a cake or as a side to icecream.)
I recently saw a post by Cheeseslave combatting her adrenal fatigue on whole foods,that’s what I would love to do. However all the preparing of food is what always worries me,how I’m gonna be able to pull it off once I’ll have a job again (though on the other hand I don’t feel like working in a company anymore,all those stressy environments.)
Overall I’d like to get past my fear of carbs,fat,proteine especially combined together.
Maybe I should ask Cheeseslave for some sound advice….
Apart from that…..it’s not all about metabolism/body temperature. I know a boy who always is warm,sweats even yet he’s hugely overweight (eats lots of carbs,especially sugary ones),which can’t be healthy either.:s So,I don’t think it’s that easy as just eat whatever……:(
Being hot all the time and sweating doesn’t mean that body temperature is high. When I used to get fevers I would get cold and shiver at 102 degrees F. Most hypermetabolic people are shorter and thinner than the general population.
ya, I’d definitely listen to Matt and start taking a lot of fukitol. Perhaps read his diet recovery book, realize that your body is craving energy rich foods because you are starving(dont get me wrong chronic food is chronic food), hence your adrenal issue for example, and if you cannot manage to do this by yourself you best fork out some cash and get yourself a consultation. I wish you the best of luck. I too am taking some fukitol but using the tools in which I’ve learned as well. Like if I wanna smash a cheesecake, sure I’ll smash one, but I’d still prefer mine with REAL ingredients and no stinkin hydrogenated soybean garbo flarb. Being worried about stuff can make you unhealthy and gain weight in and of itself. I would say to yourself that maybe your body wants to get temporarily chubby to feel better so if you start to gain weight but you’re smiling and you find yourself in better moods then EMBRACE THAT BELLY. I’m serious, wiggle and jiggle it around as a sign that you’re eating more food, your metabolism is getting higher, you’re letting your adrenals get a rest, all that great stuff!
So today I tried Fukitol…..my bodytemp indeed was/is higher however it’s not good for me and I feel really sad/frustrated/angry etc. bc of the ‘non-stimulating food’ remark….it feels like I’m sentenced/being punished by the universe.
However I’ve tried to incorporate something ‘nutritious’. I started the day with 2herrings with Himalayan salt&pepper & a ham/cheese croissant, I lunched at Ikea…had smoked salmon with Him.salt&pepper and a piece of apple pie&whipped cream…..that did not go well at all!!!!my vision became so blurry that I almost got the feeling I’d pass out…it lasted several hours and lots of fresh air&walking to go back to normal. Diner,pizza taco with lots of Him.salt&pepper and no tomato sauce…..
I can’t keep sabotaging myself like this…..Is there someone who could maybe give me some more sound advice?:’(
You don’t eat the hell outta the food to feel good today. You do it to feel good tomorrow. Keep eating that way and you won’t continue to react to it that way.
Well,what about leaky gut/bad digestion?
Besides……what do you think of this comment regarding weight and certainly the adrenal issues most are tackling here,such as myself?
“When you eat foods that you are allergic/sensitive to, it causes inflammation. Inflammation stresses the adrenals and raises cortisol and causes weight gain.”
Depends on how severe it is. I would rather see people power through to a high temp., by which time some of these inflammatory reactions are greatly reduced.
My skin starts to show pimples again, all the delicious gluten stuff (applepie,pizza,bread,croissants,whipped cream,icecream) gives me a ‘happy,loving&good feeling” at first…..hours later or the day after I feel depressed,anxious etc.
So yeah,I’m eating and getting fat (so my gut is I guess indeed permeable/inflamed)….yet I’m also doing my body harm and probably it of even more of minerals&nutrients,which I guess doesn’t ease my adrenals. Yet I can’t quit it anymore,bc I’m indeed ‘addicted’……and still angry,hurt,scared bc I don’t know how to go about it all,being angry about the ‘non-stimulating food’ predictment being true and being condemned to a life of food,outside society, that feels ‘blah’ to me,being totally lost in life,not loving(& trsuting) myself…..
Sure I can exercise,to kinda stay lean but it’s not gonna solve the problem and still keep/make me diabetic……
So,I’m totally lost…….is there anyone who can give me sound advice? Big Kitten….Limey?
Please help,’cause it’s getting totally out of hand and I’m freaking out and experiencing such contrasting symptoms…..and I have the idea I’m stressing the adrenals&rest of my body even more this way.:’(
Today at the supermarket they were handing out free apple pies to celebrate their re-opening. So,I binged on half the pie,while just having eaten 3herrings for breakfast/early lunch. I got instant energy,but also become kinda OCD&anxious regarding ‘moving/exercising’, about 2hours later I was at a birthday and I suddenly felt this very hotflush and started seeing black spots…as if I were to pass out!So,part the ‘devillish’ part of me thought “take a piece of B’day cake” but I didn’t as I’m probably robbing my body constantly of minerals&nutrients……and my blood sugar is all over the place! (However my temp is up higher,not constipated,better mental health/more creativity…though I’m not so sure about that yet.)
From what I’ve heard (I don’t have the book),Wilson’s book about Adrenal Fatigue states that these people are indeed ‘addicted to sugar&white flour’ bc it gives instant insulin spikes,yet while slowly becoming diabetic….and that’s all the crap I’ve been eating the last couple of days (and even during my cardio days,I was on the verge of diabetes even though I wasn’t overweight but I was before I started exercising and indeed also addicted to all kinds of sugary&white carby food) :(
So,as much as I ‘want to believe” your theory of being able to ‘eat whatever”….I guess I’m f*cked for life….as my horoscope’s predicament already described. (I hate this f8cking life!).
I keep experiencing weird stuff and being anxious on whatever…….I guess it’s maybe still my exercise disorder and the stuff going on inside of me.
What is your optimal recommended exercise regimen in general? (though I’m currently not subscribed at a gym anymore)
You need to seriously cut out the garbage. Apple pie for a meal? There is nothing but processed grain and sugar in that. Eat more carbs does not mean binge on junk and sugar. Get yourself some leafy greens and chow down on a salad. Make a green smoothie with some kale, spinach, a banana, a couple servings of fruit. Make a big pot of lentil-vegetable stew, eat it whenever you want. Make some red beans and rice. THAT is increasing your carb intake. You do it with whole foods, not processed junk foods.
Personally, I’m Primal, but not low-carb, mostly because I have a gluten intolerance and get major digestive distress, allergy symptoms, and general malaise with grains. I just do better without them, but man, do I FEAST on fruits and veggies, and beans are not banished from my diet, but I do restrict because I get major blood sugar crashes if I over do it on beans. My average intake of fresh produce is 10 servings a day. My protein intake is also not that high, 3-4 oz at each meal is enough for me. I also don’t do low-fat, AND I include full-fat fermented dairy products w/ moderate amounts of cheese (I’m just careful with the amounts). Before I decided to get tested for gluten intolerance and deciding to revamp and clean up my diet, I was having major blood sugar issues and serious fatigue from eating so many grain based foods that weren’t doing me a lick of good. I was basically undernourished because my body wasn’t utilizing grains well at all. Since I started eating this way, my body temperature has stabilized to an average temp of 99 degrees (It used to swing all over the place), I’m no longer batting with toxic hunger that would cause me to constantly binge on grains and sugar; and I finally have the extra energy I need (after working 8-10 hours a day of manual labor) to moderately exercise 3-4 times a week. Based on FitDay’s calculations, my average daily carb intake is between 200-250g. Moderate-carb Primal based eating is totally my healthy zone.
Dutchie,
I think you would benefit immensely from seeing a specialist in Eating Disorders. It seems to me you have a lot of food phobias/fears that need to be addressed, along with psychological hang-ups with chronic exercise. A specialist can help you deal with these problems in a therapy-like setting.
The only exercise you need to do right now is moderate walking, not more than 30 minutes a day. When you’ve got yourself healed and balanced, then you can add in moderate strength training.
Actually I got food issues since going ‘natural/organic&healthy eating’ (yet I know I unfortunately can’t go back anymore to my old ways of eating&living :( ), by all the contrasting recommendations by all popular health (Paleo) bloggers.
And I do not feel fine doing nothing. Yes,I do have a strange relationship towards food&exercise (I seriously don’t like the idea of joining a gym again) however exercising also relaxes me. I’d love to be guided by a personal coach towards Crossfit/MovNat workouts.
Crossfit/Movnat workouts are not very productive. You would be better off doing some circuit-training with real basic weightlifting moves in the 8-10 rep ranges while eating like a boss. Throwing this into a regimen built on eating hard, especially post-workout and first thing in the morning coming out of the fasted state, really changes the energy allocation and appetite regulation. Overfeeding on high-fat, high-sugar foods, with high meal frequency, doesn’t treat me well. But change any of the variables such as throwing in some daily hard exercise and the results are totally different.
You’ll find that exercise with a high metabolism is actually quite enjoyable, easy to recover from, and much more productive than doing it in an underfed state.
Could I maybe mail you, with a more indepth story,for advice? (Unfortunately,as my username says,I live abroad so a transatlantic call is too expensive. I actually couldn’t afford one if i’d lived in the US….being unemployed living on a minimal budget).
’cause I’m so (emotionally) miserable,I sometimes just wish I’d not wake up anymore…..
The life I once had is totally gone,yet a new one is far out of sight.Like I’m downing in an ocean with no land in sight.
Dutchie, you say you have a chronic Lyme diagnosis…are you on a long-term antibiotic cocktail? If so, watch the sugar or you’re going to get a few new problems, like yeast and fungus over growths in unmentionable areas. And your mouth.
@Big Kitten No,I never liked Antibiotics regarding any condition….
Dutchie, you have to throw caution to the wind. A couple of months out of zero carb, when ever I ate anything remotely sugary/starchy I had a shopping list of weird symptoms: my stomach would play up, my face would become flustered and like you my vision would become blurred. With time however, and persistance all of this goes – just don’t jump ship at the first sign of trouble. Going back to Paleo may give you some short term relief but you just perpetuate the long term underlying issue. (which your experience already tells you)
@Limey Thing is that I now keep eating gluten sugary&buttery stuff,bc it makes me ‘feel good/happy’ yet I also feel that it might not be beneficial towards my health.
The thing is….all the major food-intolerances in my test are the ones that I’d loved to eat&’made me happy’….while internally screwing up my organs/hormones and making for weight gain/bellyfat.
So,I guess the theory of ‘palatabillity of food…addiction and weightgain/obesity’ might very much hold truth….at least for me.:(
I am more trying to consciously seek out with what I’d like to ‘cheat’……#1 avoiding MSG at all costs! #2 trying to also avoid as much processed oils as possible….which usually leaves me with buttermade stuff,though butter isn’t good for me either. I’m finding there’s not much left to ‘cheat with’.
I guess it all still comes down towards ‘punishing’&’hating’ myself…..not knowing how to go about this lifestyle.
Keep eating! I think big ass meals instead of nitpickin throughout the day is definitely better. SMASH and take naps if thats what your body tells you to do. Our brains are smart, we know what things have the most calories. You will probably find down the road that the more you let yourself have what your body is craving, it won’t have power over you anymore. After I’m done eating, I don’t want anything, NOTHING, not even cheddar bay biscuits from Red Lobster, and those are like, one of the best tasting things on the planet.
@Bob Dean Sure,I don’t crave anything anymore…..yet I’m also experiencing more&more symptoms regarding diabetes,creating fatty liver again,heart palpitations,blurry vission,stressing the adrenals even more with the ‘wrong foods’ etc.
All,bc I ‘wish’ to believe all of your theories are true……and I guess out of pure anger,hatred,hurt etc.
If your metabolism is messed up eating a lot of carbs at a meal is gonna make you feel shitty. But you have to keep doing it. Perhaps someone more professional should be responding to you now, or get a consultation going. I don’t know what foods you think would stress your adrenals. But I don’t really know what else to tell you other than to cheer up and keep reading and trying.
Dutchie,
You might try cutting back on the butter and other saturated fats. They sound like they’re causing liver stagnation, which results in irritability, impatience, anger, etc (from a TCM perspective).
Also remember, Matt (and others) are emphasizing high carbs, not high fats, especially those transfattyish supermarket pies and other desserts.
You’ll do okay. You will.
If there’s one thing that can “trick” my appetite regulation mechanism into an escalation process instead of a negative feedback loop, it’s eating lots of fat with sugary stuff, particularly when consumed late at night while living a totally sedentary lifestyle. Whereas an orange to satisfy an urge for something sweet in between meals or something like that doesn’t have that effect at all. Or exercising daily. That also prevents that from occurring.
Ok, so this really sucks. I’ve been eating a low-carb GAPS diet for over a year now and what you’re saying totally rings true for me. I think I’ve actually become insulin resistant. I’ve never been overweight, still not thank God, but every time my carbs go above 50 gm/day I GAIN INSTANTLY. It doesn’t matter the type of carb either – I’ve tried rice, starchy veggies like winter squash, fruit, coconut products, etc. They all have the same effect.
So now that you’ve totally gone and ticked me off Matt (ok, not really you – but the message – or maybe the fact that I did this to myself!), what do I do to recover? I stayed low carb because I had to deal with candida issues and I think they’re finally resolved, so I’d love nothing more than to increase my carbs, but how, oh wise one, do I do that now?!?!
Oh – and I am hypothyroid. Have been for 15+ years and had been taking synthetic replacement until a few weeks ago when I finally found a doc to give me natural thyroid, which seems to be working better – less hair loss anyway!
I would eat until you aren’t hypothyroid anymore for starters. And I would allow the weight gain to occur. As Chief says, hurry up and gain the fat so you can start losing it.
I wouldn’t worry about “weight” either, as you will gain at least 5 pounds from increased water and glycogen when you restore your glycogen reserves. You can always start by doing a big carb feast once every few days to ease into it. But most prefer to just let go and get it over with. The more you throw caution to the wind the faster you’ll get through the initial torturous phase of gaining, bloating, feeling tired, foggy-headed, candida blooms, etc. Your candida problems are probably about to get worse than ever, temporarily. Have fun with that!
But get that temp up in the high 98′s and you should be at a much better place.
Thanks Matt. I’m hoping to get up enough nerve to just go for it with the carbs soon. So what do you suggest for dealing with the candida?
I find that as glucose metabolism improves, candida stops proliferating at too high of a rate. Since low-carb diets make glucose metabolism worse, generally-speaking, they make carbohydrates more “candidagenic” to create a term for ya. You can run from candida, but you can’t hide. But you’ll get through it if you eat to raise body temperature. Having a high body temperature and candida overgrowth are two things rarely seen existing together.
(Still attempting to write something for this, for whatever it’s worth… maybe later today.)
(Sorry if I wrote too much. Feel free to use or cut whatever you’d like.)
First, my thoughts on Paleo. I think we agree that the heart of Paleo is in a good place. Modern society has been blindsided by obesity and disease, and we don’t really know why. Many get the feeling our diet is somehow deficient, and I think most of us here still believe that. The health of primitive humans (or even those in more recent history) seems like it was better, so it makes sense to try and figure out what they did right and we did wrong. I’m inclined to think people do get more of the stuff we need doing Paleo– vitamins, minerals, and maybe even fiber.
But waiting for people who want to investigate this idea are all sorts of traps: the low-carb trap, the no-sugar trap, the low-calorie trap, the raw trap, the anti-nutrient trap, the “fat’s not bad so now it’s the best thing ever” trap… these are the real dangers, specifically for those who are already sick.
I truly empathize with people getting freaked out by the availability of food items that were almost certainly not available to our ancestors. Can any of us seriously imagine going our entire lives without soda, milkshakes, or candy bars? Or even the wide array of fruit we have these days? And yet, our ancestors seemed to have done just fine without it. When I started thinking about changing my diet, I didn’t see why I should so desperately need something that our species didn’t for millions of years (or even just hundreds of years). And so at the very least, I didn’t think it would be harmful to completely abstain from such things. I thought maybe I needed to toughen up.
And probably nothing will convince people that this is not the way to go unless they really try it for themselves. Sure, we could expect a that period of adjustment would be necessary. But I did very low carb for over a year, and no fructose for 3 months, and it never felt right. My “enzymes” didn’t adjust. I felt deprived, was very gaunt, got gout on two occasions, spent way too much time and energy worrying about food, and had chronically loose stools which I’ve never had before or since. (I couldn’t even believe it was gout at the time, because I’m not fat or middle-aged.) This went on way longer than it should have, and it was for two reasons: my psychological circumstances, and the seemingly overwhelming scientific support and testimony. It’s a nightmare to think of how long I may have continued my diet if it weren’t for Matt Stone.
I know most people are not as extreme as I was. It’s good to know that not all Paleos are low-carb. But my hope for this book is that it helps people retain the ability to listen to their body despite everything they think or have read.
Still, my story might be relevant because all low-carbers are in some sense Paleo. The biggest supporting argument for low-carb is how you simply cannot get a lot of carbs without agriculture, cooking, and widespread trade (at least for people of European ancestry). I don’t think the stuff about fructose and insulin would really sound plausible if it weren’t for this background.
People can argue that we can’t really know what pre-humans did, but here’s the thing– I was convinced that, at least at some point in our history, pre-humans were carnivorous. It seemed that at some point our hominid lineage would be smart enough to spread all over the world, but not smart enough to cook or grow food; and so the only significant thing around was meat. Also, we appeared to be adapted to survive through repeated ice-ages. Again, at the very least, I did not think it could possibly be harmful to eat a diet that we were at some point biologically adapted for. (Our small appendix was one of the things that convinced me.)
Yes, it seems really sick to me today, (and did even then), but here’s the other reason why I went to a mostly meat diet: Meat was being touted by low-carb authors as the perfect food. They said that fat is the body preferred fuel– that’s why it stores its energy as fat. They said we need a lot of protein, and the body would make whatever glucose it needed from that, keeping it at a stable level, instead of the dreaded spikes. As Michael Eades liked to say, “There is no such thing as a necessary carbohydrate!” Also, meat had all the vitamins and minerals in their most digestible form, and no anti-nutrients. One example that really impacted me was how Stefansson said that a person could live for years in perfect health on pemmican alone.
I decided that to get on the fast track to “healing”, or at least shock my body into the right direction, it was easiest just to eliminate pretty much all plant foods entirely. I became afraid of everything besides meat, even milk with its opoid-like casein. My influences were Gary Taubes, Mike Eades, Barry Groves, Tom Naughton, and Natasha Campbell-McBride and the whole GAPS theory, Lierre Keith, Nora Gedgaudas, Aajunis Vonderplanitz, the “Fiber Menace” guy, Ron Schmid, some lady from Poland, William Dufty’s “Sugar Blues”, and the WAPF. Between all of them, their techniques seemed to be able to help or cure every disease under the sun (even MS, as noted by Barry Groves). And eliminating carbs, fiber, and antinutrients seemed to be the common thread. So it seemed my best bet would be to eliminate all of them. (I had a vague idea that maybe I had blood sugar issues, or perhaps some other unidentifiable cause for chronic fatigue.) Assurances that I would be getting enough calories and be able to digest that much protein and fat were built on scanty evidence, but people who are desperate don’t wait around to investigate. (Sadly, in the end, this probably WAS the easiest way for me to find out whether or not those assurances were true.)
I expect that most people instinctively would not come to such an extreme conclusion. But I was desperate, and if one takes the theories behind low-carb to their literal implications, desperation may very well push you until you reach this extreme. It’s ridiculous, but this is the low-carb trap. Most people will just lightly do low-carb (and live with constant guilt), but if you truly believe that insulin and sugars are the bane of human biology, then you have to conclude that this is the ideal diet– even if you personally find it impossible to follow.
As silly as it was, I really, really thought it was the truth, because the concurrence of all the science and books just seemed unshakable. (–even DESPITE how psychologically messed up it was to think that “healthy” and “ideal” calls for an all-out animal bloodbath. I REALLY regret trying to incorporate that idea into my entire worldview.) What really caught my attention about Matt Stone is that he had read ALL of them, and still had the ability to say no to the whole thing. I honestly didn’t think that was possible. I thought insulin separated the men from the boys. Even the mainstream is tending against carbs and fructose these days, so I saw that as confirmation of low-carb’s validity. And the fact that people DO lose weight on it.
Also, the follower enthusiasm of any diet can really be misleading. I thought low-carb was working out great for everyone who did it, because all I read were good comments. I was sincerely shocked when Matt Stone did a post on Tom Naughton’s blog, and then everyone’s negative stories came out of the woodwork, seemingly out of nowhere. I was also shocked when I made a thread on “Raw Paleo Forum” with the headline “Insulin spikes do NOT cause insulin resistance??” (http://www.rawpaleodietforum.com/hot-topics/insulin-spikes-do-not-cause-insulin-resistance/), and significant figures on the site were coming out and saying how they don’t think carbs are harmful and so on. Now, I wasn’t quite as extreme as some of those people, but they were really the example in my mind of how people were actually DOING the diet I was advocating, and appeared to be doing well. I had assumed they were all in agreement, and that this was the ideal diet for everyone. But that turned out to be my own delusion! Also what was interesting about that thread– I had posted it in the “Carnivorous / Zero Carb Approach” section, precisely because I wanted it to reach people like me, who would only be browsing that section of the forum. That subject line would have gotten my attention. But people got mad over it. Some had the attitude of “What are you doing here?”, and just wanted me to leave. Eventually, a moderator moved it to the “Hot Topics” section, a place where I never would have looked. It goes to show how some people really don’t want to learn more, but only want a support group to encourage them to continue doing their odd or strenuous activities. It reminded me a little of online anorexia support groups.
Lastly, it’s always more convincing when there’s a conspiracy element attached to anything. Most people will at least believe that corporations and institutions will put profits before the people. The shock of learning that some aspect of mainstream health is wrong can too easily lead us to champion the opposite, almost as an act of revenge, or defiance. And of course, with all the other conspiracy stuff going on out there, one can begin to doubt the very fundamentals of their upbringing and society. I can’t really say much about this other than, don’t lose your head. And try not to fall for a story just because it’s sensational. Through all this, I’ve learned that we just can’t know nearly as much as we think we can from reading books and listening to “experts”. Even with competent scientists, the complexities of biology and chemistry usually cannot be reduced to such simplicity. We have complex tastes and particularities for a reason. And everyone’s unique.
Perhaps we can’t always trust our intuition and feelings, and occasionally need to reform ourselves based on intellectual theory, but I would never mistrust my feelings and common tradition that much again. This now common view of sugar (or even carbs) as an addictive “drug” instead of the easiest to use energy really makes me sad, as it is probably making life unnecessarily harder for a lot of people.
Bravo sir, are you a writer? lol
:P It takes a lot of writing to try to explain insane behavior. I don’t know how related to Matt’s book it is, but I hoped to give insight into why anyone would do such an unusual thing, especially if they are not fat or diabetic. (Michael Eades: “I can’t imagine anyone I WOULDN’T recommend a low-carb diet to!”) One thing I didn’t get to explaining is that desperation can be both physical or mental. Though the intellectual trap of low-carb is strong, a person generally won’t do something so extremely contrary to society unless they are really troubled in some way, and that can include mentally.
Here are some quick questions for those doing paleo/low-carb:
1. How can dogs and cats, who are most certainly natural carnivores, survive as well as they do on a diet of at least 60% carbohydrates and fiber, if glucose were not easily manageable for even unadapted animals?
2. If we really need that much protein, how do large herbivores build their strong bones and bodies, often from just grass and shrubs? (horses, cows, elk, elephants…)
3. If fat were really the body’s preferred source of fuel, why is it so easy to drink an entire 44 oz soda, and yet so hard to eat a few tablespoons of butter or oil?
4. If fructose is a “drug” like alcohol or cocaine, why do we inherently have a taste for it? Why do most animals (even alligators, who have never adapted to eating fruit) inherently have a taste for sweetness? (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rFIvyqlHzgE) Could it be because sugar is an almost universally easy-to-use source of energy, as opposed to learned use of a psychoactive substance?
I won’t argue with all of your points (I have no reason to) but I will address your question re: domestic cats and dogs. Yes, they can survive on a grain-based diet, but they struggle with many health issues, especially skin, coat, teeth and BEHAVIOR.
Cats are carnivores, dogs carnivores or omnivores (depending on who you ask) and if they eat “primally” (raw meat, organ, bone) their health can take an amazing turn for the better. Working with dogs for a living, I’ve seen it so much first hand that it’s FACT. Longer lifespan, better overall health. Plenty of research to back it if you’re interested… but I just wouldn’t suggest using it as an argument against primal/paleo humans.
Are there maybe more people here dealing with constant adrenal/blood sugar issues?….and if so,what do you eat and what’s your exercise/movement regimen like?
Matt,
Just finished a month of RRFAR. I bought your book and have been implementing more rest and more unrefined carbs plus a bit of honey, unrefined sugar in tea etc. My temps are up from low 97 to mid 97. Not sure where to go from here. I’ve dieted myself to where I am now over the past 30 years (starting at 13). Been bouncing around on various low carb eating plans for the past 12 years. Never got to a “normal” weight and seem to rebound the same 10 lbs over and over again. REALLY afraid of putting on some massive weight gain as I’m already 15 over “normal” and have most of my female relatives being severly obese. Believe it or not my 14 year old daughter gave me a talking to about the importance of living life and not being so uptight about my diet that I can’t enjoy life. Since dieting has always been my normal way of life — I guess I need some more structure. I read so many conflicting opinions of yours here on your website. More starch, no sugar- more sugar less starch. Low carb, high carb. More fat less fat. I’m not really sure what you recommend (If that is the right word, maybe hypothesize?) is the best route? Or is it just eat what you want no matter what it is? I’m also hypothyroid on armour thyroid for the last four three months with my TSH and T3 andT4 pretty much optimal now. I was told three years ago that I was insulin resistant and that I would never recover from it and have to eat low carb the rest of my life if I want to avoid type 2 diabetes from my Gynocologist. I am open to any thoughts or ideas you have that may help. Thanks so much in advance.
Your gynecologist should consider buying an RV and going to live up in the mountains somewhere. Alone. Without any outside communication.
Insulin resistance is about as easy for most to overcome as jumping over a french fry.
I don’t think you should tinker too much with macronutrient ratios and that stuff, or even think about it. The less you can think about and analyze your diet the better I suspect.
If you want to contact me via phone or Skype I would be more than happy to help you get the rest of the way with this – getting your temps up in the 98′s, becoming basically resistant to weight gain, improve your insulin sensitivity, and give you greater and greater freedom. I would really like to talk to you about your pee, haha, especially hearing that you are drinking tea.
That sounds like a good idea. Can you email me so we can set it up?
The Insulin Resistant/Diabetes Type2 symptoms I experience too,whenever I try to go a bit higher in Carbs. :(
This is an amazing discussion. Aside from the cult-like self-flaggelating behaviors surrounding food – zealotry is probably normal when someone discovers a healing path – I think that what compounds our confusion is that we don’t recognize the ebb and flow that comes with healing. My daughter is using a WAP diet to heal from a severely crippling rheumatoid arthritis. Other than avoiding vegetable oils, processed sugar and grains, WAP was not particularly restrictive about food groups. Yes, he talked about the importance of using freshly ground wheat because nutrients get oxidized quickly, and fermenting to minimize anti nutrients, but he explicitly said that gluten did not preclude healing. He also found healthy tribes who ate lots of dairy.
I wonder if people going on the restrictive Paleo and GAPS diets for extended periods are removing substrates for beneficial microbes to feed and those populations decline so we could expect not only nutrient deficiencies but also malabsorption when we re-introduce foods. Matt’s idea of over-feeding makes sense in providing the media for these beneficial organisms to re-establish. And, yeah, until those organisms gain a foothold you can be uncomfortable for awhile.
Not sure about the Cap’n Crunch, though. Microbes feeding on that stuff may not be so beneficial for us. And, anyway, do organisms even exist which can feed on that stuff – given that Twinkies never decompose, one wonders. But fruit, properly prepared whole grains and legumes, yeah, those should be things that help give us vital health.
From closely observing (and cheerleading) my daughter as she’s getting out of pain and regaining her life, healing is very up and down. On an ascending path, for sure, but we see clear gains only at 2 month increments. (I could only sadly chuckle when I read someone say they’ve been eating this new way for 6 days already and see NO IMPROVEMENT. I’m thinking, wow, try 10 months!)
Personally, I’m Primal, but not low-carb, mostly because I have a gluten intolerance and get major digestive distress, allergy symptoms, and general malaise with grains. I just do better without them, but man, do I FEAST on fruits and veggies, and beans are not banished from my diet, but I do restrict because I get major blood sugar crashes if I over do it on beans. My average intake of fresh produce is 10 servings a day. My protein intake is also not that high, 3-4 oz at each meal is enough for me. I also don’t do low-fat, AND I include full-fat fermented dairy products w/ moderate amounts of cheese (I’m just careful with the amounts). Before I decided to get tested for gluten intolerance and deciding to revamp and clean up my diet, I was having major blood sugar issues and serious fatigue from eating so many grain based foods that weren’t doing me a lick of good. I was basically undernourished because my body wasn’t utilizing grains well at all. Since I started eating this way, my body temperature has stabilized to an average temp of 99 degrees (It used to swing all over the place), I’m no longer batting with toxic hunger that would cause me to constantly binge on grains and sugar; and I finally have the extra energy I need (after working 8-10 hours a day of manual labor) to moderately exercise 3-4 times a week. Based on FitDay’s calculations, my average daily carb intake is between 200-250g. Moderate-carb Primal based eating is totally my healthy zone.
I paleo.
Sometimes i eat and drink what i want.
I’ve been 11% to 9% body fat for 2 years (DEXA scan).
I have a 2:46 Fran 185kg Deadlift 145kg back squat 60kg (5) press 7:56 Helen and 85 Max pullup
I feel great all the time.
I’m curious to what your reccomendations are for those with celiac. Paleo has been a godsend for me but I never did low carb. As a lifter I never cared about my weight only getting fucking strong and never had any problems accomplishing that doing paleo. Eating grains leaves me vomiting and feeling like I have RA and unable to move for weeks. I know others have told me that my gut is probably healed since I’ve been working on it for several years but I’m not stupid enough to risk it for the sake of eating a sandwich.
I don’t discredit the therapeutic use of a grain-free diet. It clearly has a time and place. But this should be looked at in isolation. A grain-free diet should be a grain-free diet, no more, no less. It shouldn’t be part of a collection of health commandments that involve carb restriction, dairy avoidance, legume avoidance, nightshade vegetable avoidance, Crossfit, sprints, intermittent fasting, and more. And a grain free diet shouldn’t be something looked at as a biological imperative that will ruin all those who tinker with grains because of our DNA. That’s incorrect. And many health themselves by adding grains, just as you have healed yourself by subtracting them.
Hi, Matt
How are you ?
I am looking forward to this. I, too, do not like Mark Sisson’s SCAM he has going. Internet gurus asre a HUGE problem of many dietary camps – vegans too, as you noted.
I know I frequent Richard Nikoley’s blog ( and I mean no disprespect to you – both of you guys have been very supportive of me, and I appreciate both of your support) a lot , it’s mainly because I like his style, cooking, and I like his views on not voting. They resemble my brother’s who also was in Tokyo in the Navy for several years. Richard’s style makes me laugh. It is similar to my own LOL !
Richard does not let Paleo define him, he is not militant aginst grains etc. His blog really is about many things, it’s not like it’s a “Paleo blog” specifically.,like scamming Sisson’s. Sisson was pimping something else 10 years back supposedly., playing his naturally ectomorphoic build up for all it’s worth.
Anyway :)
Back to Sisson, *some* of his forum members are the biggest bunch of losers on the planet. While making many of the same points you made, Matt, and thoroughly debunking their crap, I had several members make up terrible lies about me to discredit me. I mean really off the wall stuff, nasty , unethical stuff. Sisson, his staff, and many of his forum members are all a bunch of twats.
I wanted to give you the heads up about their tactics. Yes, they will stoop THAT low.
As far as the ACTUAL Paleolithic Diet- it certainly is NOT “all that Sisson promotes. The real diet was varied. There was no one Paleo diet. Some ate VERY carb rich, others did not. Some ate grains ( gasp ) LOL !
I like to talk of this way of eaitng as the “Palelolithic Conversation/Concept, rather than diet. But promoters of THEIR way of eating ( their commercial interpretation of Paleolithic eating) make EXTRAVAGANT claims that genuine anthropologists never make.
How do we know Paleo Man had no coronary disease? Was he put through an IVUS scan ( extremely accurate)
Mark Sisson, Douglas Graham and Anthony Colpo are the biggest charlatans on the Internet. Their information flies in the face of sound science
I do appreciate your approach which is not at all dogmatic. I hope all is going well.
Take care, Matt
Raz
Thanks Raz. I like Nikoley a lot, and he is more similar to me than pretty much anyone else in a lot of ways – in terms of style and not letting any one idea define us.
We’ll see what comes of this Paleo adventure. Should be interesting. Don’t bash Colpo too hard though! I like his style too! Haha.
These are not problems with paleo as a framework, these are the problems with every diet.
the low carb and zero carb people are very attracted to paleo because It gives them a framework to choose the best foods.
That being said I think it is a great thing to try and help those that have fallen for a Guru instead of listening to their own hearts.
Very interesting!
Question to all here…
I’m currently reading Matt’s RRARF eBook. Since a lot of people are following that concept here,I was wondering what you all eat,but more what you do on an average day/How do you spent it? (Do you work/have a job,do you exercise and what/how much…?)
I really like the concept of RRARF,yet I’m also a bit anxious about it and would feel a lot less stressed mentally (don’t know about the adrenals) if I’ll have an exercise regimen to go with it and as Matt says “eating like a boss” simultaneously. (cause now I regularly just don’t eat or feel like eating something nutritious bc “I don’t feel too good physically and don’t feel like anything except unhealthy stuff which I dont want to give in to. I’ve felt years like crap,pain in knees/low energy etc. during my Cardio days that it actually scares me when I feel good,so I ‘think’ I don’t need food/am satiated. Though I actually would so much like to become someone that can get away with eating massive amounts buffetstyle of whatever,exercising hard and stay lean! Though I am a tiny female of only 1.58m and I’m not at a gym anymore,nor do I own weights/kettlebells. Would love to,but I can’t afford it….and I kinda have a twisted feeling regarding joining a gym again and actually get good results and lack of skilled trainers.)
….then there’s ofcourse the Lyme&Co but I don’t want to have to keep my life ‘on-hold’ hoping that maybe over some years I might be cured of it.)
The other culprit I keep being stuck on,is that I don’t know how to manage everything since this lifestyle asks a lot of preparing. (I also need to incorporate fermented veggies&bone broths in it to heal my gutlining.)
So…how do you all go about managing this,especially if you have a job (I guess being self-employed is most beneficial in this case…)
@Matt You write in your eBook that RRARF should be done with glucose and limiting/avoiding fructose&sugar. You also write that root veggies such as carrot,beets,sweet potatoe are good sources of carbs (what about pumpkin&butternut?couldn’t find those,are they high in fructose?). However I’ve read that beets&carrots are high in natural sucrose which would mean a fair amount of fructose?
Also why use refined Coconut Oil?
I know you’ve said to relax,just some brisk walks/stretching…..but honestly my anxiety goes through the roof thinking of that bc I at times ‘feel too good’,so I’d very much like to exercise. I just can’t sit still anymore after years of just 5days a week Cardio pushing through despite tiredness,jointpains,eating whatever (which I know now,wasn’t nutritious, all processed salads,microwave meals,pizza,bread etc.)
Yet,I’ve always trained on my own,at the gym,to failure so I need proper guidance….yet I also can’t afford a PT. And with all due respect…the trainers at the local gyms here,know zero!
Also….are there people willing to share their before&after picture (link) from RRARF? :)
Heh. I was Paleo for 2 years. I felt great, had amazing energy, amazing sex drive and stamina, 6 pack abbs, tons of endurance. If you fail on the diet it’s you who is failing; don’t blame the diet for your “psychological issues”. Really now.
I eat paleo and i don’t even think about the idea of ‘low carbs’, I can’t understand why people are harping on about it. Sometimes I’ll just have a huge salad. Other times potatoes and steamed vegetables (and lots of them!), other times I’ll add a pice of meat or fish into the meal. I eat lots of fruit (all sorts, especially berries) and nuts when I feel like it. I simply avoid grains and pulses and limit dairy to goats cheese. Apart from that I eat what I feel like, when I feel like. My circulation has improved, my hair and skin are softer, my stomach has got smaller and my body shape has improved. I have far fewer aches and pains. The fact is that our hunter gatherers probably ate far less meat than we give them credit for. They would have eaten anything they could get their hands on, including of course insects! Stop thinking about carbs!!! Eat simply unprocessed foods. Stop making it all so complicted. For me giving up chocolate and sweet stuff is the hardest, so I make my own sweets of grated coconut, spanish dates and honey. Amazing! and I eat them whenever my body needs a sugar rush. I try and keep the weight on (because I don’t want to loose any more) by eating lots of avocados, coconut, and nuts. I love the taste of fresh food. 50% of my diet is uncooked. If things change , I’ll let you know, but enjoying the energy, strength and lack of digestive bloating (I have experienced most my life). Much love to all ,-)
Hello Matt,
I used to think that you were an asshole and a real dickhead, but not anymore. I’m warmer toward you now. :-)
I was so into the paleo movement for the last two years and came across your website by accident last year. Shocked by your comments and boy… I was pissed!
A year later, I realised that I was in denial and knew that I couldn’t sustain on a low-carb for long.
The low-carb diet did in fact help me to lose fat weight down to 6%, but at what cost? After a while, I couldn’t maintain that 6% body fat and my hands started to feel cold. I started to sweat a lot while I was asleep and have night terrors.
What made me realise that the low-carb diet wasn’t the right way, was the fact that I ate some pizza, ice cream or sweet popcorn on the weekend as a weekly treat, which made me feel so good. My heart was beating in a normal rhythm; felt the warm heat radiated from my body, and having lot of energy all day.
I remembered when you mentioned about increasing the body’s temperature and I thought that makes sense. The only time I felt good was after I increased the body’s temperature so I decided to eat more carbs during the week like sweet yam, potatoes, oat porridge (after soak them), banana etc.
I haven’t looked back since and my family commented on how beautiful my skin looks, no night terrors, sweating, and easily gain some muscles. I cannot believe how we (humans) can be easily swayed into something that isn’t really healthy.
Again, Matt, you aren’t a bad guy after all. :-)
god i don’t know about gluten it’s been a huge breakthrough for me to drink milk no i really think paleo’s got me on that just can’t imagine. i started eating pizza in late 2000s, really gained a lot of body fat that’s been tough to lose. i’m open to high everything but not grains, at least not now.
Can’t we all agree that the amount of carbs is not important, but the timing is? Myself, I went through it all. I started agressively, with KETO. Ohhh what a nightmare it was. Eventually, I balanced my diet out, and I eat dairy, and grains, and EVERYTHING, I just get the proper timing.
Example: I drink milk in the morning, and select starchy carbs through the day: lots of fruits and lots of vegetables. Then, I save the grainy carbs post-workout, be it bread, rice, oats, fruit, whatever, you name it, sometimes even McDonalds or PizzaHut with my girl.
As everything in life, I don’t think we should bash keto and paleo around, we should rather try to LEARN something from them, even though we aren’t so insanely strict as they advise.
PS: By the way, the worst part of KETO was dreaming about food. Insane!
Timing is definitely a part of it. I hope to post on this soon.
As a libertarian, I will defend the right of anyone to consume any food (even in any excess) they desire. Just as long as they don’t force anyone else to pay their medical bills because of a less than responsible lifestyle choice. As someone who has been interested in nutrition for 30 years, the Paleo diet is one of the most paradoxical nutritional regimens I have ever been introduced to. Aside from the program’s acute deficiency of empirical, scientific information regarding the Caveman cuisine program, I have never witnessed another group of diet touters who make up the rules du jour as they chomp away, quite like the zealous Paleolithic promotors.
I can’t really believe what kind of big issues you Americans have with weight. I really really love food, seriously, and I was never overweight, on the contrary, I’m 1,75 m and have size S. I eat a lot. All the time. I love to cook, everything from roast turkey to chocolate cake. I love different kitchens, like Thai, Chinese, Japanese, Scandinavian (which is super cool and healthy, you should check it out!), Irish (I’m serious…), Polish, German, French, Spanish, and omg, I almost forgot Italian.
The only time I gained 8 pounds in 4 weeks was when I was on holiday in America, seriously. I couldn’t believe it. Something is seriously wrong with your food over there. Back to Europe, I lost it again in 3 weeks.
Something what I noticed: You guys eat, and especially drink too much sugar/ corn sirup. I love my Sunday-after-horse-riding-fast-food-burger, but I don’t gulp it down with a gallon of soda.
Moreover, you all seem to eat out a lot or eat take out. We still don’t do that a lot in Europe, but of course we’re getting there. I think the best thing is home cooked food, made from scratch (warming up a soup can doesn’t count…) Just buy things your grandmother recognized as being food. I basically only go to the veggie and fruit section in the supermarket, plus meat/fish, milk, pasta, the occasional rice, potatoe. I don’t think that any kind of extreme diet is healthy, maybe if you have a serious disease, but then you have to ask yourself how you got it in the first place.
And I always used to exercise a lot. Already as a kid. I did all kinds of sports: horse riding, tennis, running, swimming, yoga, cycling…and I always drove my bike to school/work. I like to go for walks with my husband. You guys drive everywhere, I couldn’t believe it. Sometimes there are even no sidewalks. And I never saw so many fat people in my life, there is no nice way of saying this, as when I was in the US. WOW. I would sometimes catch myself staring at one of those huge people, who don’t look like people at all anymore, because I had never seen anything like that before. Maybe, in terms of diet, it’s worth for you to look over the pond a bit. I’m not saying people here don’t have weight issues. Since we have American fast food restaurants, coke, tons of sugar-in-all-variations-and-color-bars, and more and more processed foods, people have weight issues, too.
But I remember, when I used to school, there was usually one overweight kid per class, and by today’s standard that wouldn’t even have been overweight I guess. Our mums all cooked for us, there were no school meals. We ate homemade sandwiches and apples in the breaks, and each one of us got a milk or cocoa each morning. Not fat reduced, just plain, good old milk. Soda was something special I got sometimes, as well as ice cream.
Maybe it’s time to reconsider this fast-food-way of life. Maybe it’s not fast at all, because it makes you gain weight and have trouble with your body. Home cooking can be organised very well so it’s not so time consuming. Family members can take turns cooking.
Oh, yeah, and we never watched TV while eating. I would not like to do that. We always talk about stuff at dinner table, it’s a time when we meet and discuss our busy days. We don’t even have a TV.
I can’t believe how you can believe in so much nutrition crap. Of course your body gets sick when you try all kinds of diets and supplements! I never take any supplements, and I’m just fine. And of course you get sick when you eat too much of something. Sugar is not a problem. Too much sugar is. White bread is not a problem. Eating white bread every day is. And by the way, you idea of pasta is nowhere near a yummy original Italian pasta, which has nothing unhealthy in it whatsoever.
We have only this one body, we’ll not get a new one in the store, so it’s rather stupid not to take care of it. That may sound very harsh, but I think that’s just the way it is.
I just came across this page because I found your ebook about paleo on my kindle, I looked up some new cookbooks, and this paleo came up. It doesn’t sound like a bad idea to me, it’s pretty much what I’m doing all my life, except for the occasional pasta, rice, or French baguette (meaning not every day). I think doing this diet for a while might be a good way of getting back your sense for real foods, quitting on all that sugar and salt and fibreless stuff. But I guess any diet that includes freshly prepared meals and reduces sugar and salt would be reasonable. But I can’t figure out these people who want to eat everything raw, ugh, all that gas…
Oh, and stop bothering about fat. I love fat, like olive oil, butter, regular milk. Fat is tasty. I just don’t eat fat meats, like pork.
Treating your body as something that has to be maintained, exercised, well fed, is necessary I think. You can’t just dump all kind of sh** in you body and expect it’s gonna be ok.
Maybe a bit of common sense also wouldn’t hurt. And what is life if I can’t enjoy some Christmas baking?
Greetings from the old world…
I did paleo and very lw carb for over 5 years. My thyroid dipped and I got cold, and after losing massive amounts of weight, started gaining back everything. I controlled myself from ballooning by excercising a bunch (more adrenal stress!) then I was diagnosed with PTSD. (Even more adrenal stress!) then I broke my leg and my workouts stopped. I started gaining. After 10 more pounds I was searching around and found this site. I have been just eating what I want, particularly cereal and potatoes. I feel great. I have stopped gaining and my temperature is going up. I will never “diet” again with a low carb approach.
Paleo dieters are hilarious. I’ve never seen a group of people get so emotional about food. There’s nothing wrong with eating healthy…but when you mention even the remote possibility of criticizing their diet, they start crying louder than a pack of vegans. The cult-like devotion is a little bit freaky.
Why are we having this discussion based on personal anecdotes and observational trials? There have been randomized controlled trials comparing low fat, low carb and mediterranean style diets. These are the gold standard and the results are clear. The Direct trial in the new england journal of medicine was the clearest but there are others like one in JAMA in 2005 comparing 5 diets including low fat vegans to low carb and more.
Or just step back for a second and ask what makes sense. Pick any junk food– soda, chips, donuts, candy bars. It is mostly carbs. Even a Big Mac value meal Is more carbs than fat. And thats even if you skip the soda, which most dont.
Every food you just listed roughly has as much fat as carbohydrate, except the soda. The trials done on these diets aren’t that relevant to real life as a human being (which counts the most by far, and why anecdotes are much more real and powerful when dealing with real, living, breathing, complex individuals). No one stays on any of those diets for a lifetime unless they live in the Meditteranean. http://nutritiondata.self.com/facts/snacks/5363/2 (chips – 57% fat, 43% carbs), http://nutritiondata.self.com/facts/sweets/5461/2 (Snickers – 45% fat, 50.6% carbs), http://nutritiondata.self.com/facts/foods-from-krispy-kreme/6705/2 (doughnut – 48% fat, 50% carbs).
Just found this site and article as I have started a semi Paleo diet – I have tried every diet out there and nothing has worked….oh nope I have not tried eating less and excercising more ….hmmm perhaps should give that one a try…Ok I really have not tried any diet. I was researching Paleo to see what the fuss was about and realized how much friggin bread I was eating –
I started a sort of common sense shift in diet…and have cut out mostly bread and sugar (recently) and have lost some pounds and seem to be sleeping better. I feel that great ingredients are the best thing for you so the bottom line for me is I plan to have beans, I plan to have pasta and I plan to have cheese. The change is my beans are heritage varieties not the supermarket type – nothing from a can…gross. Pasta forget your Barilla and order real pasta from real wheat grown on real small farms in Italy. Cheese, skip the yellow American or anything shredded(think I just puked in my mouth) ..if it is in a jar or comes in a block that could double as a brick…skip it- If oil is the first ingredient that’s not really cheese. Eat real cheese.
I am 44 overweight and hardly exercise but changes to real food over the past several years mean I have great blood pressure, a regular cholesterol level(from a family where most are slim and on statins) and do not take a single medication.
Deb: “What’s a liger?” Napoleon Dynamite: “It’s pretty much my favourite animal. It’s like a lion and a tiger mixed… bred for its skills in magic.”