Channeling Jon Gabriel

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I finally got around to reading Jon Gabriel’s The Gabriel Method earlier this month.  Although it might lean a little too heavily towards the meditation/positive thinking/woo-woo side of things for most, and Gabriel is more excited about flax and fish oil than Barry Sears himself, I will go out on a limb and call it one of the best weight loss books in print.
It is more in alignment with 180DegreeHealth on the topic of weight loss than practically anything out there.  It’s about eating well.  Eating MORE real food.  Eating to appetite.  Being in general harmony with your body.  Not eating an overly restricted diet.
Gabriel also feels strongly that restricted dieting is a prime contributor to long-term weight gain – and is NOT the solution in any shape, form, or fashion.  According to Gabriel, to lose weight and keep it off without willpower we have to convince our bodies not to want to be fat anymore.  How do you do that?  By de-activating what he calls the FAT programs.  Those programs are the hormonal repurcussions of leptin resistance more or less.  And to turn off the FAT programs the focus should be lowering inflammation, stress, and other factors that raise cortisol and SOCS-3 – discussed in one of last week’s videos:

Anyway, my attempts to help out the lovable and likeable Jimmy Moore by merely highlighting a stern warning given out by Moore’s hero – Dr. Atkins himself, needless to say, was not taken kindly by the “tater haters” as Nathan so eloquently labeled them.  Well, I apologize if I sounded condescending or like I was “gloating” over Jimmy’s weight troubles.  That was absolutely not the intent in any way. I’m still a bit perplexed as to how people could have taken it that way. Rather, it was a heartfelt message that came from a feeling that Diana Schwarzbein once expressed:

“It’s very hard for me to see people doing something that I know is going to harm them.”  

But hey, I was never a 400-pound dude.  I don’t know what it’s like to lose all that weight.  To try to keep it off.  Everything I’ve studied suggests that it’s so difficult as to almost be impossible for most (certainly by conventional methods as Rudy Leibel and other top obesity researchers have discovered).  But Jon Gabriel was a 400-pound dude, and now he’s not anymore.  And, let’s be honest.  Excluding a couple of word choices and at most a sentence or two, this could’ve easily been written by me, and would certainly be my advice to Jimmy and virtually all people struggling with a weight problem.  In fact, Gabriel’s advice is so spot on that I used this very passage to conclude the chapter in my 180 Degree Metabolism revision called “Duck Fiets.”

“Dieting – actively depriving yourself of certain foods – activates the FAT Programs. The stress of forcing yourself to eat less and of denying yourself the foods you’re craving, day in and day out, causes hormonal and chemical changes in your body. These changes act as a signal to your brain that it’s time to go into fat conservation mode.

Dieting sends only one message to your brain: ‘There’s not enough food. We’d better put every spare calorie we can into fat because we don’t know where our next meal is coming from.’ In essence, dieting sends a famine message to your body that triggers the FAT Programs, and that’s why diets don’t work.


It’s unlikely that anyone has ever told a person struggling with excess weight to EAT MORE, but if you’re starving yourself to try to lose weight, THAT’S EXACTLY WHAT I’m RECOMMENDING YOU DO.


Diets all follow a similar pattern. By eliminating or severely restricting items from your diet, your body will, for a time, lose weight. You may lose weight quickly at first, but then the rate at which you lose weight will start to slow. Eventually, you stop losing weight altogether. You find yourself in the unfortunate position of having to restrict yourself, count calories, or follow unnatural eating schedules, not to lose weight, but to simply maintain your current level of body fat. You feel like you’re running on a treadmill that just keeps going faster. The longer you go, the harder it gets.


From your body’s perspective, you’re now stuck in starvation mode; your appetite increases and it takes a lot more food before you feel full. Your taste buds become desensitized, and you start craving sweet and fatty foods. Your brain also sends a message to your thyroid to slow down your metabolism. This causes you to stop losing weight even though you are now eating less. Also, your body goes into perpetual fat storage mode: you become very efficient at storing fat and you lose the ability to burn it.


As a result, when dieting, you’re hungry all the time and constantly fighting cravings. Then when you finally give in to your cravings, you gain the weight back very quickly because all those excess calories turn into fat. If you now go back to eating the way you used to, you’ll get fatter on even fewer calories than before.


Many experts now concur that dieting can actually MAKE YOU FAT. Studies have shown that teenagers who diet are statistically three times more likely to be fat in five years time…


If dieting doesn’t work, what’s the answer? Simple: eat more real foods!”

-Jon Gabriel

170 Comments

  1. I've listen to Gabriel before. I thought maybe it was even on Jimmy's podcast?

    He seems like a pretty reasonable guy. Whatever system he's got going seems to be working pretty well.

    Reply
    • Hello Grok. We, as mammals, are genetically programmed to store up excess calories as fat (FAT programs) during times of abundance, so that we could burn that fat for fuel during the next famine. The Gabriel Method emphasizes in telling your subconscious mind to stop storing calories as fat rather than burning them for energy. Letting it know you’re not in danger of starvation in order to deprogram those “FAT programs” genetically installed there, in your subconscious mind.

      Reply
  2. Sound alot like Clarence Bass's philosophy. A quote from one of Clarence's articles: "The dieter's dilemma can be managed, however. The answer is to avoid restrictive diets. I have maintained a very low body fat level for more than two decades, and I can honestly say that I did it without ever being hungry or feeling deprived. It can be done. Indeed, it is probably the only way to lose fat and keep it off." He's been in the single digits for 40 years. You should really check him out, Matt. cbass.com -Chris Robbins

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  3. I want to be a slender, fit person. I hope I can get there eating real foods, resting and ridding myself of Fat thinking. I started eating real foods when I joined the WAPF about a year ago. I also sought nutritional advice from a WAPF trainer/nutritionist who advised that I stay away from grains and dairy and give up caffeine. I was able to give up dairy for two weeks. I was unhappy without my raw milk so I went back to it. Caffeine is out of my life and it was one of the hardest give-ups ever. Grains? I always seemed to fall off the wagon by eating rice or popcorn or giving in to my sugar cravings. I did (failed really) to do the low carb thing for a year and always felt crave-y and draggy. I thought it was the lack of coffee. Now that I found 180 and welcomed taters and whole grains back in my life I feel a bit better. Weight is still creeping up though. Will be getting results of a thyroid panel this or next week and will be having a hormone test (saliva test) soon.I am tired from all the suffering. Being heavy is a drain. Being hypothyroid is awful. I just want my life…I'd say "back" but I'm not sure I ever felt alive. I've been draggy since childhood. Anyway, thanks for the further inspiration!

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  4. "Tater haters"

    That's really a great phrase and kudos for Nathan for coming up with this. And it just fits so incredibly well. There is really not good reason to condemn potatoes but many paleo-peeps seem to think that potatoes are the foody incarnation of the devil ro something. But hey, they are nightshades, which are neolithic foods. So are bell peppers, cayenne peppers, tomatoes etc. but nobody seems to give a fuck about that.

    Reply
  5. Chris,
    I think Clarence Bass is a good example for most people. He eats a high carb(mostly whole grain, low fat, moderate protein diet. His dietary philosophy is very reasonable and he is not dogmatic about the "optimal" human diet.

    Lisa,
    Have you evaluated the emotional attachments to food? I am seeing this as a major problem with women. What are your exercise habits like? I am becoming more and more convinced that exercise is absolutely essential for most. If you cant do low carb, then try a more low fat approach. The Kitavans, and most successful bodybuilders follow this approach.

    Reply
  6. Yes, Clarence loves whole grains and by whole we mean whole. For instance, he uses oat groats instead of milled oats which he uses for his morning "old reliable" which is a mixture of different whole grains such as oat groats, quinoa, barley, mixed fruit, & mixed veggies which he has everyday. He also uses sprouted wheat bread. He likes to eat uniformly, mostly the same everyday that way if he needs to lose or gain a few pounds it's as easy as adding or subtracting one or two small things. –Chris

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  7. JT, I've overevaluated my emotional attachments to food. It took quite a bit of work to get past that phase of my healing and look at the food itself. As far as "low" anything (be that fat, carbs or calories) I'm taking a break from that to see what Matt's High Everything approach does for my health. I just had knee surgery so exercise will be physical therapy till I'm on my feet again.

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  8. Matt, please check out "The No S Diet" by Reinhard Engels. It's simple, straightforward, to the point, and it's all about eating real food and not dieting.

    http://www.nosdiet.com/

    Love the Gabriel review. Thanks.

    Reply
  9. I like the woo-woo out there stuff, and I like the ideas behind this. In one of Gabriel's YouTube videos, he says something that reminds me of Louise Haye's 'You Can Heal Your Life.' Gabriel says that for some reason, your body holds onto this weight to feel safe. Haye, in a long section of the emotional/spiritual beliefs associated with ailments in various parts of the body, describes belly fat as relating to resentment over denial of of sustenance, or something to that effect.

    At the risk of losing any credibility I might have, I'll say that a lot of this makes sense to me. Energy medicine and energy psychology seem to be an exciting and provocative field, and the way that beliefs impact our genetic expression is only beginning to be explored. One mechanism I can see as possibly working is that energy psychology tools might impact the way our hormonal system operates. If Schwarzbein is right, that hormones really play a key role in our utilization of food, and if indeed our beliefs can epigenetically impact our endocrine system, then changing those beliefs and their associated actions may have demonstrable metabolic effects. It's early on, and maybe is all bunk, but it seems at least potentially plausible, and may provide part of the explanation for why Gabriel's methods might work. And it also highlights another possible leverage point in impacting our health. If hormonal issues represented the cutting edge of today, perhaps psycho-energetic issues represent tomorrow's threshold.

    Feel free to disagree, of course.

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  10. Lisa I feel for ya…it has been the same way with me.
    I think Matt and Gabriel have pretty much the same approach to weight loss, only that Gabriel emphasizes the emotional part more. He says in his book that in order for your body to want to lose weight, it has to feel safe to do so and any negative emotions/memories will probably prevent it from doing so. For those who were thin and then gained weight all of a sudden (like from a traumatic experience) they can pretty much see what it was that triggered their bodies into thinking they would be safer being fat. However, for those who have been fat their whole lives, how do you figure it out? Plus, what fat person does not have negative emotions and memories…hell, all my emotions and memories are negative and centered around my being fat. How can you erase a life time of negativity?
    My Mom suffered teasing all her teenage and adult life because she was 10 pounds overweight. My Dad was a child during WWII and lost his father at a young age and him and his siblings had to fight for food whenever there was any. I really think that it is possible to inherit memories and emotions from your parents. So now what? I hate my body and my mind torments me day and night. I understand what Gabriel is saying, but I'm not quite sure his approach would work for everyone, especially those who have a whole lifetime of negative emotions and possibly even those of their parents.

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  11. Rob. Totally appreciate your comment. I too KNOW that there is much power and potential waiting to be unleashed in the future of health and medicine. In the past I went through a very Woo-woo phase that felt good to break free from. But I know it wasn't all without merit.

    Vida-
    As for woo-woo and erasing negative memories, there's actually a powerful and scientific method for doing that. John Demartini's Quantam Collapse Process. Of all the woo-woo things that I've been exposed to, Demartini's was by far the best. He was the one that actually helped snap me out of my woo-woo phase. He's not some lame "think positive thoughts" guy either, but much more than that. I can definitely say that 180 would not exist if I hadn't crossed paths with him. Not a chance. Highly recommend him.

    Lisa-
    Nourishing yourself well with quality foods, unrestricted for the first time in your life can't be a bad idea. It seems certain to lead to a better place down the road.

    Reply
  12. Yes, Engels is awesome. The only major difference I can see between us is this:

    Engels blames eating a bunch of sugary stuff on the person eating it. My research has led me to believe that eating sugary stuff makes you want to eat more sugary stuff, and perverts the appetite in general to consume more food without metabolic compensation for the additional calories.
    That's more in line with the thesis of Richard Johnson and Robert Lustig, and I generally agree. The shift is subtle and takes years to develop though. I think a lot of it has to do with the actual sweetness of it too – not just the metabolic effects of fructose.

    I agree with Engels too that overeating is a problem. Only difference is that I find the best cure for wanting to overeat (and sugar cravings) is to overeat! This still seems like the best path to get eating habits to fall naturally into place to me. I don't know of any better long-term approach to deal with compulsive food issues than that. Fix the compulsive eating issues first (bringing the metabolism up along with it). Worry about the rest later.

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  13. Lisa and Vida, You don't necessarily need to have had a traumatic experience to have emotional issues with food. If you are the type that is naturally fatter then you probably have always struggled with food issues by feeling guilty about eating. Also, I have noticed many fat people find extreme pleasure in food, especially the people who have been fatter all of their lives. This sense of pleasure could be stronger in some and cause overeating. My brother and sister were this way ever since we were little, they LOVED and obsessed over food from the time they were very little, it was like that was the most extreme form of pleasure they could obtain. Not surprisingly, they have both always been fatter.

    If you guys are eating high amounts of everything, while being sedentary, and still successful in obtaining a lean slender physique, then you definitely need to document it. It will be a shock to everyone who is an expert in the physique biz. You seriously need to keep food logs and progress pics.

    Reply
  14. that noS diet sucks. too restrictive during the week, & then go wild on weekends. no, engels does not recommend that, but from reading the boards that is what happens. apparently no snacks between the 3 allowed meals means that you get a "red" (= bad) if you eat one bite of raw carrot. if that is not obsessive i don't know what is. the boards are full of people asking "is it legal to taste while i am cooking", etc. are you adults or what? when i tried noS the no sugar thing made me crave sugar, even though i usually don't care about it. make something off limits, even for 5 days a week, & you are setting yourself up for craving it. engels even "cautions" that if people don't follow his arbitrary rules exactly, it is "dangerous" and they will fail. what is he, god? anyhow, i tried it 3 different times, & each time got annoyed & rebellious rather quickly at the thought of following someone else's random rules like they are the law. plus, on the boards you see people struggle for years (yes, some for years) with it & not really get anywhere besides feeling guilty for being "bad" if they so much as eat a lettuce week between meals on a weekday. a few are successful, but most not, it seems. so, don't go there. it is dumb. just another bunch of magic rules that worked for one person. please people, think for yourselves. i have even read on the boards there" i am breastfeeding, is it ok if i have a snack between lunch and dinner? and this person is supposed to raise the next generation? (fyi, it is ok if you call it a "mini meal", apparently if you eat the same thing but call it a snack it is heresy). nuf said.

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  15. I'm so glad you reviewed Jon Gabriel's book – I really liked it and even enjoyed the meditation. The flax oil and emphasis on live food I like (but he's not dogmatically raw foodist). Hoping you'll review "Fat Burning Diet" by Jay Robb:)

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  16. Oh my, that extended quote from Jon Gabriel is an excruciating description of my (previous) low carb life.

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  17. P.S. Regarding Jon Gabriel and the "woo woo stuff," there is a reason my online name is "Think115." :-)

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  18. I have been doing the HED for about 4 months now. And I really went all at it. I ate every time I even thought about food. It was like I opened the floodgates! I couldn't believe how much food I wanted to eat. I just ate and ate and ate, but only good foods. I didn't do any exercise, other than chasing around a 20 month old and breastfeeding a 3 month old. I tried to get as much sleep as possible. A couple weeks ago I read Jon Gabriel's book and added in some meditation and relaxation techniques to help me lower my stress levels. I gained about 7 pounds in the past months which is actually really low considering how much food I was eating.

    My temperatures have gone up and up and up. A couple days ago my oral temperature was 98.9!!! My body has finally gotten to the point where I don't feel like I need as much food. It was actually a little difficult to break the habit of eating so much but I felt like my body was telling me that it was time. So, starting about a week ago I started eating less food,and especially less fat. I started exercising just because I want to. I lost about 4 pounds in the last ten 10 days and believe it will keep going as long as I don't starve myself.

    My advice to anyone is that if you are going to do HED, do it all out. Eat every time you think of food, cut out all PUFAs, refined grains and sugars. Do as little exercise as possible. Go to bed early. Do meditation or something to relax. And don't feel guilty! Find someone who will support you.

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  19. Having just re-read the post on Jimmy Moore, I don't think it was gloating in tone. The title of the blog post might come across that way. But having read your eBooks I realise that your writing style tends to be a bit on the goofy side. Perhaps some people looking through the us-versus-them dogmatic frame might view it as gloating. Jimmy has, as you point out, painted himself into a corner. I do hope he recognises his error, and changes his health for the better, both for his sake and for the sake of those who follow him.

    [BTW, just got your "everything" package and I sat down and read through two books already. Good stuff.]

    Reply
  20. Matt,

    This is totally off-topic, but have you ever heard of the HCG protocol and if so, what do you think? I have 2 friends doing it right now who swear by it and I'm curious to know if you've heard of it. The very low calorie diet part freaked me out, majorly, but they insist that the whole point of the HCG is to negate the 'starvation mode' part and that it resets your hypothalamus and metabolism so you don't bounce back afterward.

    Not sure what I think of it. There's a free book about it online called Pounds and Inches.

    Reply
  21. i love how the paleo fucks are saying… oh we don't restrict carbs…. blah blah blah… we are not low carb… even though thats what they were preaching the whole time…. haha..

    LIke Panu is saying now.. oh.. eat 50% carbs if your body agrees.. but he wrote this blog about getting tired of people telling him about the Kitavins eating a high carb diet with perfect health… and richard.. what an asshole… His attitude it crap.. i will swear and swear and swear.. because i am richard.. free the animal… blah blah blah… so stupid… i curse… because i am a fucking moron…

    and talk about shit… richard, is saying you have been going HED for a year… haha.. if he followed the blog, he would have realized you have done a few different diets during this time…

    Hey matt… fuck em…. and jimmy moore is being a little bitch.. because he knows he is wrong… stupid egg diet… hahaha… have fun eating eggs or whatever the rest of your life… how ridiculous… i can't take it anymore…

    troy

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  22. Troy –

    Couldn't have said it better myself!
    They want to kick him out of the community. He shall be banished and branded with a scarlet 'C' because his love for carbs was not tolerated in the community.

    Scott

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  23. @Annabelle,

    If you check out the S.P.E.E.D. weight loss blog they have a few posts on HcG, their conclusions seem to be that it just doesn't work. But they give the scientific reasoning behind why they think so.

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  24. Hey, Grendel. I'm going out on a limb here and guess that you didn't read the No S book…? Just seems that way because I can't imagine that anyone could actually read the book (or anything Reinhard Engels has written on his website or forum) and come away with that opinion of the diet and of him. The "God" comment really cracked me up. You'd be hard pressed to find anyone as congenial and self-effacing as Engels anywhere online. You seem to have gotten caught up on a lot of little details and completely missed the bigger picture. And if you think the rules are "arbitrary", you definitely couldn't have read the book.

    It's a good read, even for someone not interested in diet. And – full disclosure, lol – I've been "No-Sing" for almost a year now and have lost about 30 pounds and have pretty much gotten over a lifetime of food obsession.

    Reply
  25. @Matt

    Are you familiar with Martin Berkhan? http://www.leangains.com

    He SEEMS to promote an approach with some similarities to yours e.g he recommends whole foods with some starch and is not too caught in up in the paleo low carb-dogma.

    BUT he's also into fasting and slowly gaining weight and carb cycling. Now my question is if this is really healthy?? He has a lot of clients to back it up and I know Robb Wolf who I also read recommends him highly.

    Thoughts??

    Reply
  26. @Laura…Martin Berkhan has actually posted here a few times. I don't know if there is an easy way to search the comments on past blog comments, but go back through a few of the last ones. I know him and Matt were discussing Leptin in one of the recent ones.

    Reply
  27. Tezza,
    I looked for S.P.E.E.D. weight loss blog on google and couldn't find anything to match that.

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  28. sorry, anonymous, i did read the book, & i still think the noS diet sucks. engels may be the nicest guy on the planet, but his diet still sucks & is a gimmick. gotta go now – time for my spanking, i just ate a raw carrot & it is not mealtime! good thing church falls on an Sday, otherwise I'd really be in for it, what with that between-meal communion wafer & all…..

    Reply
  29. To Laura:

    Berkhan is a smart and well-researched guy and his system works wonder for many (myself included). He advocates refeeds and fasting for it's effects on leptin and health. In contrast to what many seem to believe fasting is not detrimental to health or metabolism. Matt may disagree, I'm not sure.

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  30. @Chris:
    Fasting is actually one of the few points where I still do not share Matt's view. I think that intermittent fasting has a place in a healthy lifestyle and can have amazing benefits. But I also think it is something that has to be treated with a lot of care and a lot of conditions have to be fullfilled for fasting to be successful. For example I think it is crucial to keep other stressors to a minimum, to have healthy adrenals and to make sure to do appropriate refeeds. I don't wanna give fasting a go just yet. I think it is more important to heal via the HED right now. But as soon as I regained my health completely, I might give it a shot.

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  31. Annabelle, I'm very curious about hcg too. It supposedly has an 85% long term success rate. It really caught my attention because unlike all other diets (except HED of course,) you don't have to keep eating a certain way your whole life. The 500 calories a day is for a very short time while taking the HED because your body should be feeding you with its abnormal fat stores. After 23-40 days of the 500 calories, you do 3 weeks no starch and no sugar, however, not low carb, you can still eat all the veggies and lower sugar fruits you want. You can eat as much protein and fat as you need too. This period is to reset the hypothalamus. Then after that, you can slowly add starch and sugar back. It is not low calorie or low anything, just to eat normally. Most diets actually do lower metabolism and as soon as you start eating normally again you regain the weight, where this diet actually tells you to eat normally again.
    I'm not sure if I believe it, although there are many who it has worked for.
    I'm going to try it soon, just for one round, while measuring body temp and all. Mostly, I'm just curious to see if it really does work. I'm going to do the homeopathic drops rather than the injections. I'm gonna start it in a couple weeks and probably just go for 23 days.

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  32. …sorry, anonymous, i did read the book…

    Sure.

    Reply
  33. did too, anony-mouse

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  34. My friends are both using the sublingual drops. They are both super duper pro HCG! Keep us apprised of your progress, Vida – I'm super curious about it. I love the idea of shedding my extra weight, but not at the expense of my metabolism. All the info about it sounds good, but I guess I need more anecdotal evidence. ;)

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  35. Matt, first of all, thank for your inspiring blog and for sharing your ideas and the results of your self-experimentation. Second, what do you think of Byron Richard's "Mastering Leptin", and his belief that eating meals spaced at least 5 hours apart with no snacking as one way to regulate leptin and other hormones?

    I've been a fruitarian, vegetarian, low-carber, Weight Watcher, Intermittent Faster, and the follower of many, many diets that have not worked for me long term. Schwarzbein set me on the right path, but these last few months I've been eating HED/180 style while also keeping to 3 meals a day, no snacks, and found it has really regulated my appetite. This is probably the first time in my life (since I was child—I had no food issues or weight problem until I hit puberty) that I can 1) eat a meal and feel full and satisfied 2) not have the urge to eat and eat and eat all night from dinner to bedtime 3) not obsess about particular foods.

    I'm sure that some of this success and appetite regulation is due to eating a more varied and nutritious diet (esp. adding back starches), but I do think that eliminating snacks has helped, too. I feel like I now understand what hunger is, and what it feels like to be full.

    Unfortunately, I don't know what my average temperature was before HED, but the last month I averaged 97.7 upon awakening and 98.4 midday during the first half of my cycle, and 98.00 a.m. and 98.9 the second half. I feel great, sleep well, and my moods have regulated so I can handle stress so much better.

    I'm hoping that this has set me up for some weight loss. When I first started HED, I would stuff myself at each meal. Now I'm backing off and eating only 'til I'm full, and I'm finding (amazing as it is) that I'm not hungry until the next meal time. I'm also starting to feel the need to move around more and get some exercise. To sum it up, I finally feel like a normal person!! I've always been plagued by the feeling of never being satisfied, now matter how much I ate. To be free of constant hunger is so liberating I honestly feel like a completely different creature.

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  36. Ha. You guys are gonna love the new eBook revision. I talk about IF, cycling, Jay Robb, Martin Berkhan, and others in a balanced light.

    I am not that familiar with HCG yet, but the real answer to weight loss is what can lower the set point. Then you can eat flippin' nothing and it won't matter. As long as you're above your set point, you'll feel just like most dedicated HED'ers. Satisfied for hours on a small amount of food. Energetic. Balanced. No need for sweets, snacks, etc. Easy fat burning. High body temp.

    Thanks for your comments April. I'm experiencing the same phenomena myself. Of course we all know that my long summer of overexercising and a vegan experiment caused my set point to rise. I've understood this for years, as doing that always made me fatter temporarily. You are experiencing exactly what HED is intended to deliver. I think you'll find your weight loss to continue effortlessly as long as you don't battle yourself in any way.

    On Byron Richards-
    I think snacking is a symptom of leptin resistance, not necessarily a cause. Either way, I'm not a snacking fan from both a digestive and a metabolic standpoint. But that has to come naturally with eating well – not by force.

    Grendel-
    Hilarious. I like the simplicity of Engels's approach. I strive for the same simplicity. I could see its pitfalls though, and why some would take it they way that they have on the forum (which I have not visited).

    Pip-
    I hope to post some of Gabriel's videos later this week.

    Reply
  37. One thing I love about Gabriel too is the fact that he worked one-on-one with Atkins for a month when he was fat. He said that after not losing weight on Atkins, Bobby C. just yelled at him.

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  38. Why do I even read JT's comments? They make cartoon steam come out my ears. Maybe I'm just emotionally attached to food because I'm a female. Never mind that I weigh almost 20 pounds more than the first day I ever started a diet, and spent the intervening eight years doing one form of starvation or another, and busting my ass doing every kind of exercise under the sun, as hard as I could. (And yes that includes stupid weights and stupid HIIT training).

    As for doing food logs and progress picks. I've done that shit too. All it does is make you super obsessive and phobic about food so that you are thinking about this day and night. Not a good way to heal. Also it was the midst of this super obsessive diet that my body decided it hated me and repaid me with fatigue, constant headaches, colds and flu and digestive issues. Matt and Weston Price showed me the way back to sanity. It was like I was walking around with an anvil on my head complaining of a headache and they said, "yo, what about taking the anvil off your head?!" and you know what it fucking worked. My headache went away.

    Also, Troy your little meltdown made me smile. Go stream of consciousness style rants!

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  39. As for the woo-woo shit, I think it actually helped me a little, but mostly it helped me to do stuff that I didn't naturally want to do like get up at 5:30 in the morning to go to the gym to lift weights. No woo-woo shit required to hit the snooze and sleep an extra half hour or to lie down with my kid on the couch for 20 minutes to recharge. Funny how that works. I don't need to psych myself up to eat spoonbread.

    The main thing I do need to woo woo myself is to stop obsessing about the small weight gains and to think of the positive health gains. This is a lot easier now that we are in full on allergy season and I'm med free and not lying prostrate with a sinus headache. Every time a little negative thought gets in there I think of that and it is well and truly pwned.

    I think probably every diet guru has to have some woo woo shit in there or they won't sell their book.

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  40. Yes, Jimmy did interview Jon Gabriel, and it was a really interesting podcast. He's got every podcast he's ever done available on his site.

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  41. Gabriel is probably the ultimate Anvil-remover.

    As for woo-woo shit. I used to be one hell of a big bad woo-woo daddy. My first published articles appeared in this magazine:

    http://voiceofchoices.com/

    Although, I can see links are broken to the old issues where I my articles reside. :(

    Thanks for focusing on health first Nipp. I'm pretty sure that weight will be gone by the end of summer too. That's the goal for everyone here: healthy and lean. But in that order.

    Reply
  42. Voices of Choices! Best laugh I've had all week. Matt you sea turtle interviewing son of a gun! Who knew?

    Reply
  43. I read Gabriel's book about 4 months ago and it resonated, big time. I found it a great complement to 180. The only things that I found a bit strange (although they clearly worked for him!!!) are his emphasis on 'omega 3' sources that are actually quite high in o6, like flaxseed, etc. He also recommends nuts and his recipes contain a lot of nuts and seeds. He emphasizes salads, which I think is fine, as there ain't nothing wrong with vegetables… but then says to use any dressing you like, which could be – and probably will be – loaded with bad oils. Taking the 5 – 10 g omega 3 per day is questionable enough without adding in all that omega 6. Again, though, this has all very obviously worked for him in a big way.

    And the "exercise like a predator is chasing you" thing is pretty funny. Not really my style. I prefer doing stuff that's fun and imagining a lion chasing after me is not fun, at all.

    Reply
  44. 6 months this week. Hit 97.5 this morn, good start to the week.

    Hey is it time to move away from the HED term. It was coined over a year ago? and it is not where 180 seems to be at these days. Tired of reading off-site that we are all over-feeding on all macro-nutrients for life and pounding McDonalds every chance we get, and some guy named Bruce K ascended from the heavens to guide us… no dis-respect to Bruce though, I loved following all his comments back in the day.

    Things will always change as we learn more and more, but was thinking:

    Low – in PUFA and Fructose
    Mod – Fat(Saturated) and Protein
    High – Unrefined Carbs

    LMH, I severed my limb while I was on 180 limb…? Shorter then MANIFEST! Ideas, thoughts? I know you love your acronyms Matt!

    Reply
  45. Goddammit, am I stupid! I just realized what Manifest stands for….

    Reply
  46. Yeah, however you define "woo-woo" it definitely will have an effect on your hormone balance and weight regulation. I had a family member who after 25 years of creating a company and substantial wealth, said "no more", settled and left the company. After a year he has lost 30 lbs. So I asked him what he has been doing, if he changed is diet, or what? He said that he hadn't changed a thing about his diet at least not consciously, and he sleep, read, and did well, anything he felt like doing. He is a different person not just in appearance but personality as well. So yeah eliminating unnecessary stress and focusing on "woo-woo" shit can be huge.

    @Half…ah, yes!!!

    @Matt Thanks for the plug man! It came in a brilliant flash similar to the flux capacitor, but I was sitting on the can instead of falling off of it.

    Reply
  47. Nathan, you are spot on about the woo woo. I have spontaneously returned to my svelte and happy and carefree youthful self a few times in my adult life, and generally it coincided with big life changes wherein i was happy and engaged in life and naturally active and not paying any attention AT ALL to what i ate or how i exercised. and by this i mean i ate whatever i felt like eating, but did not think about it unless i was hungry. usually this involved travel (as in 3-6 months of wandering) or moving & starting new somewhere. my big problem is that once i get back to the "real" world of routine & comfort the weight creeps back on. you have convinced me, i need to "woo woo" my life a bit………

    Reply
  48. @Half Navajo (Troy),

    Atta boy, blow off some steam. I love it. Dr. Harris at PaNu is a pompous ass quite frankly. And this Richard at Free the Animal just makes me laugh more than anything. I am sure you noticed his "Poor, poor Matt Stone" post. Read it late the other night, have to thank him, put me to sleep right away.

    @JennytheNipper,

    I hear you about JT. Now, his posts are articulate, intelligent, and not inflammatory. He is very respectful and that is all we can ask. Now having said that, he is 180 from Matt, get lean first and then heal. I do not like his referencing Clarence Bass as a good example for most people for two reasons. CB is obsessed with every calorie that goes in his mouth, and has admitted that his "ripped" bodyfat percentage in the past was partially due to steroid usage. It spared all his lean while he consumed low calories. It is in one of his early books. Scott Abel, whose name he throws around, advocates very low cals and then a massive refeed once a week?? WTF? Of course it can only be once a week, otherwise you would blow up like nobody's business. Am I missing something here??

    As far as JT asking us to document progress, take pictures, etc. No disrespect to him, but no thanks. Why should I? First off, now up 4 pounds to 241, but my skinfold above the hipbone (have gotten quite good at using those cheap little calipers), is still in the 10-11 mm range. My pants fit the same, my dress shirts are getting tighter in the shoulder/chest area. Only feedback I need. I really do not give a flying fornication what people in the physique biz think. Read my lips. The dirty little secret amongst bb'ers/figure competitors, etc is the one that totally changes the equation. Drug usage. Plain and simple. I compare apples with apples, not with oranges.

    Good luck to everyone with their goals. Just be a better you.

    Reply
  49. Green monster,
    if you are talking about steroid use, you would be comparing walnuts with raisins, if you get my drift…..

    Reply
  50. Ha! I knew you'd like that Nippy. I wrote an article called "How Much Do Your Beliefs Weigh?" in which I proposed that creating a health ideal and then constantly judging thyself over your ability to measure up to it was contributing to poorer health and weight gain. The binge and repent cycle. It was my big "secret" at the time (2006), but later I came to feel that it was really a result of just eating to appetite.

    Undertow-
    I'd love to change the name, as it is temporary. I love the bashing of 180 though. It drives tons of traffic. Nikoley created the biggest surge in visits in 180's history with his Fat Matt article in which he called me a hypocrite for being overweight while recommending that people overfeed above their set point for health (makes sense right?). The more ridiculous they paint me, the more curious people get, and when they get here they discover I'm not a crackhead at all.

    Keep thinking of new HED acronyms. Ideally it's best described by the fact that we are trying to go above our weight set point for the metabolic effects, and then later drive the set point down via prolonged excellent nutrition, lack of deprivation stress, etc. The mechanism is probably restoring leptin sensitivity at the upper ranges of the set point, which causes metabolic hyperdrive, resistance to fat gain, lack of hunger and cravings, improvement in sex hormone function, libido, fertility, immune function, and more.

    That I think will ultimately prove to be more important than PUFA, or fructose, or anything else for that matter. Even obesity researcher Rudy Leibel can make obese patients hypermetabolic on powdered protein and carbohydrate mixed into a corn oil base.

    I do think Gabriel is right to focus on fatty acid balance. Getting tons of 3 is helpful if you are on a high O6 diet. But if your diet is low in O6, you can get more out of 1 gram of omega 3 than 10 grams of omega 3 if your diet is 10% omega 6 like many Americans' diets are.

    Nathan-
    Excellent flux capacitor reference. You are scoring big points lately. More points that Teen Wolf scored in his first game as a wolf.

    Sparky-
    Gabriel argues that internalized stress is stress, and that the body handles it the same way as any stress – add fat for protection. Of course, caloric stress induced by dieting is the most acute of all common stresses (other than hypoxia or dehydration), and leads to a verifiable reason to raise the set point. It gives reason for famine physiology. But there's no doubt that any stress can pull this off.

    Reply
  51. It was me who said 'gloat'. I know you take no pleasure in Jimmy's troubles.

    Gabriel did do an episode of Jimmy's show – it was a good interview.

    What would be ideal would be a way for people to easily monitor their own cortisol levels. As it is now there is only a very time consuming lab test where you really need to take blood throughout the day to get it right. That's not practical or affordable. If there was an easy way to monitor it at home someone could have hard evidence of whether they had reduced their cortisol level and then they could monitor their weight/bodyfat along with it and really see if lowering cortisol levels caused them to lose bodyfat. They could really get a good handle on it. As it is now, most of us are just guessing at whether we've really lowered our cortisol levels. That's the great thing about using body temp. Its very easy to track and monitor. I wonder if there is an inverse relationship between cortisol and body temp. I know that cortisol is an adrenaline antagonist so it seems reasonable.

    Reply
  52. Matt,
    Yeah, stress can definitely cause lots of problems. my problem is not stress though, it is just that i get a bit too comfy and a little bored when i have a day to day routine, so i tend to eat for entertainment. (i'm not really all that fat, either). not all fat people are stressed, after all. my mother, grandmother are definitely not slim, but neither has ever dieted that i can tell, & both have good diets (lots of garden veggies, real butter, etc) & are in excellent health. i really do think that genetically some people are going to be heavier than others if they have plenty of food available. in my family the females tend to get the big hips & butt thing goin' on, & also tend to live healthily into their 90's. I did grow up on real food, homemade everything, raw milk. i remember being embarrassed about the homemade pie in my lunch, i really WANTED the hohos everyone else got. i remember literally crying when my mother switched from real butter to margarine in the 60's because it was "better" for you. fortunately that phase did not last long. we also did things like roll the corn on the cob in bacon fat (tastes great, by the way) & the only soda we got was homemade rootbeer, which we brewed once a year. to this day i love veggies & fruits the most, & really don't care about meat all that much. i think part of the problem today is that everyone wants to look like twiggy & that is not a reasonable goal for some, so they torture themselves with diets & end up worse off than before. So, i think the HED is a great start to normalizing your relationship with food & make you healthy, but it will not necessarily make you lean, that depends on many factors, including genetics.

    Reply
  53. Jennythenipper,
    Didn't mean for you to get upset by my comments. Like i said before, peoples emotional attachments to diet are very strong. If you spent the previous 8 years starving yourself and training in a fashion that wasn't right for you, then yes, you will make things worse, and that is not what i recommend. I am coming to the conclusion now that a lot of people, especially women who don't have a lot of experience athletically really need the help of a professional to guide them through the process.

    You COMPLETELY misunderstood my recommendation to document the progress with pics and food logs. The reason I said to do this was for validation for Matt and his dietary philosophy of chronic high calorie intake and a sedentary lifestyle. Without this no one will ever believe it, or take him or his methodology seriously. He can't do a controlled study, so this would be the next best thing. If he was just giving the standard diet advice of lowering calories and increasing exercise, then there would be no point in doing this as everyone would expect these results.

    Reply
  54. Green Monster, Actually my dietary philosophy is not 180 from Matt's. The only difference is that my advice is dependent on the individuals current state, and their goals. In general, if someone just wants to get healthy and has a history of dieting and overexercise, then I would agree with Matt, you should just eat as much natural healthy food as you desire and get plenty of rest if you are burned out. But, if you have been sedentary and overeating for a long time, then I think you should take the opposite approach. If your desire is for a more extreme lean muscular physique, you may need to go to more extreme measures. I already said before that most people should stop obsessing over their body image and just focus on eating healthy natural foods, and just let their body look the way it wants to look, if you are a little fatter than the media says is good, who cares!

    The reason I said Clarence Bass is a good model is because I like his general diet and exercise recommendation for the average person. He eats a diet that is almost like the Kitavan's macro ratios. Higher in carbs, low to moderate protein and fat, being sure to eat whole unprocessed foods. This is what Matt is heading towards as well. His exercise reccomendations are doable for most too, 1 intense weightlifting and cardio session a week, with the rest of the days just enjoying casual walks.

    I agree with you on measuring progress, you are doing it the right way. I also think people should throw away their scales and calipers. If you want to make a woman crazy, obsessive, and miserable give her a scale and make her weigh herself everyday! I have already had this problem with my GF even though she has a good physique. I think I am going to hide it from her.

    Also, since you brought up comparing apples to oranges, let's address your situation. You have already told us that you are extremely genetically blessed when it comes to the physique department. This can make just as much or more of a difference than steroids. A woman with hormonal issues would likely not get the same results as someone like you.

    Reply
  55. Sparky, great post and I agree with you completely.

    You said "I think part of the problem today is that everyone wants to look like twiggy & that is not a reasonable goal for some, so they torture themselves with diets & end up worse off than before. So, i think the HED is a great start to normalizing your relationship with food & make you healthy, but it will not necessarily make you lean, that depends on many factors, including genetics."

    This i something most of the people here need to take seriously. And I agree with you that this is the best part of the HED, and something Matt needs to be honest with his followers about.

    Reply
  56. To add to the mix: women tend to thicken up around the waist at menopause, even if they have been a pear shape their entire lives. reason: their estrogen levels are dropping, & fat around the middle produces estrogen, thus the body is maintaining estrogen by adding a bit of fat to the waist. supposedly women who are a bit fatter go through the menopause easier than skinny-minis because of this. when menopause ends the hormonal craziness goes with it, & you will naturally tend towards a slimmer shape again. this is not really the time to go extreme on your diet, even tho it is depressing to have it happen to you (especially to us boomers who really did think aging was for old people….not us). recently i read that studies show a little padding is good for the elderly as well. this adds to my hypothesis that a fixation with thinness is counterproductive. sure, 300 lbs is not the ideal either, but a bit of padding can be a good thing at certain times in your life….plus, as we all know, dieting takes us in the opposite direction….

    Reply
  57. JT: how many fat people are fat because they overeat and are sedentary? I know of none. All the overweight people I know are trying to keep up with their kids, do their jobs and cope with life. As for over-eating, its difficult to judge. Most heavier people that I've been out to eat with, will just nibble at the food in public. Maybe they go home and down a whole bucket of wings. I kind of doubt it though. The last time I did weight watchers, I saw the food diaries of the women I was in sessions with and they were eating way less than me and they weighed a lot more. I have yet to meet this mythical fat person who sits on the couch and eats skittles all day.

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  58. "Ha! I knew you'd like that Nippy. I wrote an article called "How Much Do Your Beliefs Weigh?" in which I proposed that creating a health ideal and then constantly judging thyself over your ability to measure up to it was contributing to poorer health and weight gain. The binge and repent cycle. It was my big "secret" at the time (2006), but later I came to feel that it was really a result of just eating to appetite."

    I don't know. I think you might have been onto something there. Sadly its the way that many diet programs train you to think. Visualize yourself thin, etc.

    And when it comes to reducing stress to improve your health that doesn't have to be woo-woo, I think. Seriously, I won't do yoga because if I even see myself in those pants, I start to get dark thoughts. Sleeping, lying in the sun, reading a good novel, playing in the dirt with your kids…all excellent ways to destress and not woo-woo at all.

    I think we should start a movement to change the name from "beer gut" to "stress gut." And "thunder thighs" to "estrogen dominant thighs."

    Reply
  59. Jenny, every fat person I know is like this. My father, sister, brother, brother in law, sister in law, co-workers, several of my best friends. These are all examples of people who I am very familiar with their diet and exercise habits. They all meet the criteria of your mythical fat person who is overeating and leading a sedentary lifestyle. It is also strange that every time they change what they are doing and start eating healthy and exercising, they lose fat, gain muscle, and feel better.

    I also know people like you describe that have done chronic starvation diets and bad exercise who have set themselves up for a major metabolic rebound.

    Reply
  60. Ah yes, reiteration of the need for clarification about what I do, in fact, recommend for health.

    I'm not a HED for life kind of guy. In fact, like I've said openly before, it's probably best to eat less and be active. The difference is that I recommend a set of steps that helps that happen automatically, through working with human physiology instead of against it with willpower and dietary restriction, extremism, and starvation tricks. HED is an overfeeding regimen designed to be followed, like April has done, for a SHORT period of time.

    Doing so drives your weight ABOVE the set point, which makes you more leptin sensitive. The result is that you are hypermetabolic, burn fat like a m'fer, have no appetite, have the energy of Chris Tucker, have a high body temp., and lose your appetite. Leptin is powerful enough to cause starvation in rats without slowing down the metabolism when injected into leptin-sensitive animals.

    So I'm not HED for life. I am about overfeeding short-term to repair your metabolism and clear up several lingering health problems related to that hypometabolic state. Then, you follow your appetite and energy levels for life. For many, that will result in spontaneous fat loss without countering metabolic forces that cause rebound weight gain. That's what Gabriel has tapped into. I hope to follow suit. The first step, is to stop dieting, go above your set point, and stay above the set point as the set point drops. I have no doubt that many of us have improved our fat burning capabilities tremendously by overfeeding.

    But it is short-term. Temporary. Like the milk diet.

    I nominate the new name…

    Restorative Rehabilitative Aggressive Re-Feeding or…

    RRARF

    Like the acronym? Yay or nay?

    Reply
  61. hahaha….
    RRARF sounds like a sad dog trying to bark….but it can only get one lonely bark out…..

    Reply
  62. i checked out the handy dandy thesaurus:

    Main Entry: feed
    Part of Speech: verb
    Definition: give nourishment; augment
    Synonyms: banquet, bolster, cater, cram, deliver, dine, dish out, dispense, encourage, fatten, feast, fill, find, foster, fuel, furnish, give, gorge, hand, hand over, maintain, minister, nourish, nurse, nurture, provide, provision, regale, satisfy, stock, strengthen, stuff, supply, support, sustain, victual, wine and dine
    Antonyms: starve

    i like the words provision, strengthen, stock (up), fuel, feast, bolster, encourage, fill… in terms of the restorative period on the road to 180 health :)

    Reply
  63. i actually think that JT is pretty rational. he is saying that yes, maybe your metabolism (adrenals, etc) are damaged, but then maybe they are NOT. i think the HED has merit, but one problem with matt's approach is the automatic assumption that every fat person out there is metabolically damaged somehow. say, for instance, you are 30 lbs overweight, & you eat alot of healthy food & you have never dieted & genetically you run towards being a bit hefty – in that case would you recommend eating even MORE food? why is that the only answer? i just don't understand why all of these sites try to paint everyone with the same brush. part of me thinks that maybe the HED works because it allows you to eat all you want (except for somewhat addictive substances like sugar), so eventually food loses the hold over you that is has (since you can eat it whenever you want), & you just naturally stop feeling like eating so much (since you can have more whenever you want), thus you eat less, & lose weight. this does not necessarily have anything to do with metabolism per se. it is more of an "intuitive eating" approach. anyhow, the jury is still out, in my mind, & the human body is so incredibly complex, there are many many factors at play here…..

    Reply
  64. Hey,

    Nice to see Gabriel is similar in that area. Dieting is really so limiting in the end.

    Unrelated, but have any of you ever seen second generation margarine users who weren't unhealthy? I'm thinking margarine might be worse than refined sugar now.

    I have a question for you all though. I met this girl and she told me that she's had a really low appetite for the past week or two. She's had ulcers before in her life, but not in recent years I think. The past week she has had stomach issues but doesn't feel sick beyond the stomach. I'm wondering if you guys could suggest what it might be. I'm thinking zinc deficiency or a hiatal hernia, personally. On a personal note, I was adjusted for a hiatal hernia by my chiropractor and it has made a big difference. I would recommend looking into that if you have symptoms.

    She's 19, at a good weight, has nice warm hands, and normally eats well. I think her sleep/eating schedule isn't the best. She takes antacids on occasion and was on birth control for a while, but has stopped. She gained 10 pounds while on birth control. She's only been able to eat fruit and salads in the past week well. She feels nauseous when she eats other things (I think one thing she mentioned setting her off was two strawberries, although that certainly counts as fruit).

    That's pretty much all I know, but I'm intrigued for my own knowledge and for her sake.

    Huge thank you to Matt for all of the time he spends here helping us all. I'm a (not as active lately) regular post anonymously to protect her identity in case that'd be best.

    Anyways, what do you think?

    Thanks,
    Pseudonymous

    PS: Matt, I think it would be nice if you had a donations link. I'd gladly donate some for when there isn't a new E-book to buy :-).

    Reply
  65. RRARF…..love it. And the nice thing, we have a tool that allows one should they ever put on a few pounds again, to just start the process all over again.

    There is a bodybuilding author, Kelly Baggett (who trains strength athletes, football players, etc.)who writes about setpoint extensively. A natural bb'er trying to get bigger must continously eat more food. He feels it is better that a male trainee be at 12-15% BF to make maximum gains. He has people eating 5000-6000 cals. The fat then melts off when they eat less (of course), but the result is a bigger, leaner trainee. If that is not HED, I do not know what is.

    JT,

    You make good points, as always, I just think that we can agree to disagree on our basic approach to all this.

    Reply
  66. Pseudonymous – One easy thing for your girlfriend to try is a probiotic. I've recently started using probiotic "pearls" (I threw the box away so I can't remember the exact brand, but you can get them in any health food store). I think it really does help to "re-regulate" the gut.

    Reply
  67. Green Monster, I am familiar with Kelly Baggett and think he is a good coach. If you read his stuff, you will see that he agrees with pretty much every thing I have stated. Disagreement is not a bad thing, I think we should all try to find out what works for us as individuals.

    Reply
  68. Mattsie..
    Voices of choices..Thats how I found ya =)

    Reply
  69. I want to say something about high protein vs. lower protein. Last night I went to Texas de Brazil, which is an awesome restaurant where they take huge skewers of all sorts of meat to all the tables and you can eat all the beef/chicken/pork/lamb you want…and we definitely did. Anyways, I did not totally stuff myself, but I ate a lot of meat and today I cannot even think about meat without wanting to throw up. For breakfast I had a slice of toast and cup of tea and for dinner I already have some chickpeas going. Tomorrow I don't even want to look at meat either.
    Ok, my point is that probably earlier people did not eat a mostly meat diet, they probably ate large amounts when they could, but the rest of the days they ate fruits and tubers. Meat just has that effect. When you eat a lot, you don't want it again for quite a while. Even when I was doing Atkins type diets, I was so thrilled to be able to eat all the meat I wanted, but even after just a few days the thought of meat made me sick.

    Also, I want to say that I don't know what happened to me a few weeks ago, but I actually ate fast food again for the first time in years. I took a whole week and instead of going to the gym I went to eat fast food…4 times! I also ate lots of chocolate and cheesecake. My weight went up a few pounds, but after 2 days my weight went right back to the exact same it was before, right down to the ounce. I really believe this is my set point. Now I'm back to my normal eating routine (only whole foods/around 2000 calories a day) and workout routine. Weight is the same…however, I do feel a lot better.
    I guess since not eating fast food for so long I was really craving for it. I had it several times and I don't care to have anymore. It was tasteless and gave me stomach aches. My cravings are completely gone now.

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  70. Great piece on the issue of dieting vs feeding the body real food. I’ve bookmarked you on a few of my social bookmark sites so others can enjoy this. I’ve also written a response to your thoughts at my blog (details at bottom).

    Of course the benefits of the ‘real food’ approach that you advocate go beyond mere weight loss, to include rejuvenation, disease reversal, mood and energy enhancement, and a range of life enhancements that money can’t buy. To be honest, though, the idea that ‘dieting’, or reducing the amount of food you eat, is bad and causes fat gain, somehow doesn’t quite ring true for me.

    I mean sure, Jon knows what he’s talking about, as do you, and all the experts that point to the plateau effect that follows restrictive dieting. Your statistic about the number of teens who diet that go on to be heavier within 5 years is interesting, but really, I think all of this highlights a matter of ignorance about how to diet effectively.

    Great piece on the issue of dieting vs feeding the body real food. I’ve bookmarked you on a few of my social bookmark sites so others can enjoy this. I’ve also written a response to your thoughts at my blog (details at bottom).
    Of course the benefits of your ‘real food’ approach go beyond mere weight loss and include rejuvenation, disease reversal, mood and energy enhancement, and a range of life enhancements that money can’t buy. To be honest, though, the idea that ‘dieting’, or reducing the amount of food you eat, is bad and causes fat gain, somehow doesn’t quite ring true for me.
    I mean sure, Jon knows what he’s talking about, as do you, and all the experts that point to the plateau effect that follows restrictive dieting. Your statistic about the number of teens who diet that go on to be heavier within 5 years is interesting, but really, I think all of this highlights a matter of ignorance about how to diet effectively.

    As a personal trainer, my partner Suzi has helped many people lose weight fast through diet and exercise programs, but she's also coached them to keep the weight off through exactly what you advocate – eating real foods.

    It works wonders, and once the addiction to fats, sugars and cooked food weaken, people usually love living on a healthier diet and enjoying the weight loss and other benefits. I think there is a way for restrictive dieting and consumption of real food to work together.

    You can find out a little more about how we’ve effectively combined dieting, exercise, suppliments and real food for long term weight loss at our blog, http://www.bestweightlossideas.com.

    Reply
  71. Great piece on the issue of dieting vs feeding the body real food. I’ve bookmarked you on a few of my social bookmark sites so others can enjoy this. I’ve also written a response to your thoughts at my blog (details at bottom).

    Of course the benefits of your ‘real food’ approach go beyond mere weight loss and include rejuvenation, disease reversal, mood and energy enhancement, and a range of life enhancements that money can’t buy. To be honest, though, the idea that ‘dieting’, or reducing the amount of food you eat, is bad and causes fat gain, somehow doesn’t quite ring true for me.

    I mean sure, Jon knows what he’s talking about, as do you, and all the experts that point to the plateau effect that follows restrictive dieting. Your statistic about the number of teens who diet that go on to be heavier within 5 years is interesting, but really, I think all of this highlights a matter of ignorance about how to diet effectively.

    As a personal trainer, my partner Suzi has helped many people lose weight fast through diet and exercise programs, but she's also coached them to keep the weight off through exactly what you advocate – eating real foods.

    It works wonders, and once the addiction to fats, sugars and cooked food weaken, people usually love living on a healthier diet and enjoying the weight loss and other benefits. I think there is a way for restrictive dieting and consumption of real food to work together.

    You can find out a little more about how we’ve effectively combined dieting, exercise, suppliments and real food for long term weight loss at our blog, http://www.bestweightlossideas.com.

    Reply
  72. Matt, when I read your post about Jimmy Moore I in no way thought you were condescending or gloating. I totally got that you honestly felt bad for him and his choices to limit his foods even more.

    I am on board with your 'diet plan' but I admit I'm scared. Each day I see that I'm just as plump as before and don't seem to be losing and it's scary for me. I continually battle with the mentality of going on a diet. But I know that in the long term it could cause more harm than good.

    Why do I have to be FAT!!!!! This is hard!!!

    Reply
  73. JT,

    All cool. When I first discovered Matt's blog (and have been slowly working my way through every post and comment over these last 8 weeks or so since I found 180), I actually thought of Baggett when I read of HED. KB does talk a lot about the overfed(anabolic) and the underfed (catabolic) stages. Now that Matt is working on the revision of his ebook, I did see some reference to cycling. I will be most interested to see how that plays out.

    What I do know is that my basal morning temp has risen from 97.0 to 97.3 since I started all this. I ate near 2000 cals for dinner last night, felt full but not stuffed. 2K!! Interesting in that within 30 minutes, I had doffed a sweatshirt and put on a lighter t-shirt. I was warm. I went outside to dump some garbage, was standing in my yard, slight rainfall, 45F, and did not even feel cold. I could see my breath of course and yet I stood there for 5 minutes. What is going on here??

    Reply
  74. @Vida…I always thought the same thing and I have read recently that that was what they actually did in paleo times. They would go on a hunt, bring down the big game and then gorge on the game. No fridge so they had to eat what they could because leftovers were out. In between hunts, they would gather. I don't know if this is superior to eating small amounts of animal meat regularly (like Okinawans). Who knows what physical adaptations the human race has made since then.

    Reply
  75. I watched that Jon Gabriel interview last night, I liked the thought; if your body wants to be fat it will stay fat, if it wants to get lean it will get lean.

    If you want to be fatter, move your set point higher: starve (famine or diet or nutritional deficiency or stress or over exercise…)

    If you want to be leaner, move your set point lower: don't starve (overfeed for a time, then eat REAL food, mellow out, go for a walk…)

    So every time you diet or eat shitty food… your body will move the set point higher to protect your body and you get fatter.

    When you eat real food and nourish your body it moves the set point lower and you become leaner.

    http://www.gabrielmethodreview.org/

    His views on O3 seem a little dated though… better to avoid PUFA's altogether.

    Reply
  76. @Anneatheart…here is a post that I actually made to Vida after the Ancel Keys post of Matt's. It was the last post so no one probably read it because they had moved on to Matt's next article. I know it's not the ideal situation but I used it as a shortcut, so here goes…

    Hi Vida, I was sorta in the same boat as you are now. Although not exactly Matt's plan, I did the HED thing for about 3 or 4 months, my waist bloated up to almost 40 inches (which is ALOT for a 5' 9" guy) and almost 200lbs. It got to the point where I had trouble tying my shoes and I had difficulty breathing, so I HAD to stop. I used carb cycling to lose weight and over the course of about 7 months, lost about 6 inches off my waist. Christmas had me backslide some and then I was stuck. I stopped carb-cycling a few weeks ago and went higher carb, lower protein, not overboard on the fat and I started losing again and now my waist almost down to 33" and I weight just over 170. Some of Matt's ideas that I just incorporated when I stopped carb cycling was lowering the protein, and cutting out sugar except for half the day on Saturdays…when I say sugar, I mean no fruit or juice either. I think that cycling, whether it's carbs or calories or whatever, it seems like having the best of both worlds…I don't know whether the higher days allow the body to not feel threatened (Lyle Macdonald says that the body will downregulate the metabolism after 3 days of reduced calories). I'm not saying that this is the right way or the best way, but it is A way. My thryoid and adrenals were smoked…low body temps, losing part of my eyebrows, unable to stay awake through a whole day, I felt completely whooped. I feel 1000% better right now and Matt's ideas played a big part in that…he may not be 100% on board with it, but there are a lot of his concepts in there. Good luck.

    Reply
  77. What about HEC, the High Everything Cure? RRARF is to hard to say without laughing. "What are you doing that your looking so healthy and fit?" "RRARF!" "Sorry, I couldn't here you, someone let Scooby Doo in here. Say Again?" Etc.

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  78. "Jenny, every fat person I know is like this. My father, sister, brother, brother in law, sister in law, co-workers, several of my best friends. These are all examples of people who I am very familiar with their diet and exercise habits. They all meet the criteria of your mythical fat person who is overeating and leading a sedentary lifestyle."

    So you know that all of these people are doing NO physical activity whatsoever and they all eat more than their recommended calories a day?

    Reply
  79. I tend to think of HED as giving the body a "HEaD Start" to getting a healthy metabolism and relationship with food

    Reply
  80. Jenny,

    Your question, "So you know that all of these people are doing NO physical activity whatsoever and they all eat more than their recommended calories a day?"

    I guess I don't know for sure, they could be lying to me when they say they don't do any physical exercise. And I have seen most of their eating habits, so I am pretty certain they are taking in WAY more calories than they need. The funny thing is that they don't realize how many calories they are eating a lot of times. They will swear they don't hardly eat anything, and then I will see them down a ton of calories in one meal, usually at night. They just don't realize how much they are eating.

    This should not be shocking information. You can go to any specialist who works with lots of people in this area and they will tell you the same thing. All of the metabolic ward studies showed the same as well. All of the people in the starvation study Matt posted about lost weight rapidly when they had a caloric deficit.

    Reply
  81. I don't know where you folks are going with this High Everything Diet. Diana Schwarzbein did not recommend a high carbohydrate diet. She stated that "eating too few carbohydrates is just as damaging as eating too many carbohydrates."

    Alternatively, you must eat more carbohydrates if you become more active at any time.

    Does anyone exercise often when they increase carbohydrates into their diet?

    Hmmm….

    Reply
  82. Share Guide: What do you think about the current low-carb craze?

    Jack LaLanne: It’s a bunch of bull! If God, or nature, or whatever you want to call it didn’t want you to mix carbohydrates, starches and fats, you’d never have a grain, you’d never have a vegetable or a fruit, would you? What’s in a grain? It’s got carbohydrates, starches, fats, sugar. It’s got everything in it. Why does nature do that? One guy says don’t mix carbohydrates, and the other guy says don’t mix protein with it; it’s all a bunch of lard, something to sell a book. And the poor public is so confused, they don’t know what to do. That’s why I give my lectures.

    Reply
  83. Plain and Simple – You must eat a balanced meal: unrefined carbohydrates (do not go lower than 50 grams of carbs, eat 100-150 grams of carbs per day), protein, vegetables (non-starchy vegetables), and fats.

    But, everyone has a different body from one another person. In other words, what is good for one person may not be good for another.

    Oh, and Grandpa Jack exercise a lot! and is in great shape for his age!

    Reply
  84. "Alternatively, you must eat more carbohydrates if you become more active at any time.

    Does anyone exercise often when they increase carbohydrates into their diet?"

    Higher activity levels require more carbs. So the conclusion must be that higher carbs necessitate a higher activity level.

    Thank you, oh anonymous, for sharing with us this great pit of logic. May I share my own piece of logic with yea.
    Dolphins are surrounded by water, ergo taking a bath will make you a dolphin!

    Reply
  85. Hmm, pit. Guess I mixed "piece" and "bit" together.
    Anyways, anon, don't take me too serious. Just having fun with ya. ;-)

    Reply
  86. MadMUHHH,

    It wasn't a piece of logic, even someone younger than you and have a brain can understand what I said…so go chill and do something constructive than trying to shadow Matt on his blog.

    Byee!!! LOL

    Reply
  87. So, if I misunderstood you, I'm sorry for that. May you please elaborate on what exactly you meant? I guess being brainless makes comprehending stuff arguably harder. ;-)

    Reply
  88. All that bad omega-6 we consume is really horrible. Especially peanuts!!!

    Omega 6 destroys the metabolism, causes weight gain and kills puppies!!! It's the number 1 health threat!!!!

    Well, here's what actual research on the subject reveals…

    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19396658
    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18716180
    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18716179
    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12119580

    Well, maybe it kills puppies …

    The paleos may be off their rocker, but this is no better, really.

    It's the same bullshit-story:
    "We didn't eat it back then, when Gaia loved us, so it's evil."

    I have a new theory:

    Back then in "the blessed times when nobody got diseases of civilization"(TM) man ate low-fat meat, shirataki-noodles instead of ordinary carbs and mixed them with organic peanut-butter.

    Someone will try it, lose weight and start a blog telling everyone why it has to be organic peanut-butter with a long list of what's in organic peanut butter that's not in the cheap one and the other way around, making up tons of nonsensical arguments about how these chemicals are the cause of the obesity epidemic.

    I'm waiting for it …

    Hmmmm… Peanut Butter …

    Reply
  89. Matt – I mentioned chayote a few posts back, and you thought you might do a kitchen blog on it. Today, I was cutting up some to put in stew, and my hands freaked out – felt slimy, went numb, turned tight and dry, and then the skin cracked and peeled. It kind of hurt, and scared me, so I went online and found this is a common reaction to chayote and some squashes, esp butternut – although I personally have never had it happen before. Anyhow, thought you might mention it if you did do a kitchen blog, in case others have that problem. It's the sap, I guess.

    Reply
  90. hey matt,

    stopped in barnes and noble today, and read all of the gabriel method…. pretty awesome book!!

    what do you think about his recommendations about consuming so much Fish oil… can it be more beneficial to someone his weight? I liked his approach to losing weight slowly,,, so the skin can gain back its tightness, instead of the rapid weightloss like so many low carbers have and the saggy leftover skin problems they have to deal with.

    troy

    Reply
  91. Felix I can't tell if your post is a sarcasm or not and in what way, but the studies you are linking are a junk.

    It's easy to take 25 (first study) or 15 (last study) samples of red or pink and with little luck even white noise and show the "effect" with 0.05, or 0.01 or even 0.001 confidence level. And if you are not lucky with your first trial, you have to repeat this exercise only about four times each to get the results you want (if you know what you are doing). I would not call this science, "junk" is far more fitting, and I think when talking about medical research "fraud" would be even more precise term.

    It's also very easy to run large data mining operations like epidemiological studies – running lots of different analysis on large data sets – and if you choose confidence level as 0.05, or 0.01 or 0.001, then it's guaranteed that every 20th, or 100th, or 1000th "analysis" will provide you a "discovery", even if your data are noise. That's what these confidence levels mean, statistically speaking. See China Study for a prime example of such data mining: "this project eventually produced more than 8000 statistically significant associations between various dietary factors and disease." With confidence level of p=0.001 which they used (I think) it's safe to say that most of their "discoveries" are random artifacts of their method. Some of them may be real but there is no way to tell which.

    So whatever point you are trying to make, take a note that quoting science (even junk science like this) is a tricky matter, because one has to actually understand it, otherwise one ends up sounding like a parrot ;)

    Reply
  92. Try finding decent science in the nutrition field. :-D

    You will be hard-pressed to find any *decent* data on any food-related health claim. The stuff I've linked to is the stuff that gets published in this field.

    Lesson learned. In the field of nutrition it's best not to mention the always shaky foundation of the conclusions you draw, but just claim the results as fact with a straight face. I should have said that fructose is evil without saying that this notion is based on studies giving rats 40% of their calories in the form of fructose and linked to an emphatic speech on the matter…

    It makes sense, … by this logic actual studies are bad, but the Gabriel Method is fine …

    Okay, then I'll just mention Herman Taller, whose "Calories don't count" emphasized the use of 5 oz of PUFAs a day (about 1300 calories) in the form of margarine and vegetable oils to speed up fat loss, because that's what he did.

    Obscure diet books seem to have a higher credibility around here. :-D

    Reply
  93. Sorry, the way you are putting it makes it hard to argue about anything. Sarcasm is poor substitute for an argument but good for adding to confusion.

    It seems that we agree on quality of medical research yet you are citing some junk studies like if they mattered …

    I never said anything about credibility of Gabriel Method or Herman Taller – in fact I have heard about them today for the first time …

    What's your point? Is it that hard for you to state it clearly?

    Reply
  94. I have a question:

    Does a person gain weight rapidly on raw/fresh milk (cow or goat milk)?

    This does not include the Milk Diet cure for people who only drink milk and nothing else.

    Reply
  95. It depends on how much milk you consume, if you don't take in enough calories then you wont gain any weight. Many people have used raw and pasteurized milk as a way to pack on the mass. For weight gain purposes, their should be no difference whether or not the milk is raw, unless you can't digest pasteurized.

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  96. I actually had a bad experience with pasteurized milk. When I consume it, my blood sugar immediately went way up.

    It's probably because of the inflammatory effect from all that dead bacteria from pasteurization. In order to clear out the dead bacteria, the body induces a inflammatory response. Inflammation raises SOCS-3 and cortisol, which will make the liver insulin resistant. Therefore, the liver will continue to pump out glucose even if the blood sugar is already high.

    I also had muscle pain after consuming pasteurized milk. I guess it's because of the oxidized fats.

    Low fat milk causes even worse muscle pain, probably because of the added powdered milk. The powdered milk has oxidized cholesterol. Maybe it's the oxidized cholesterol which causes muscle pain.

    When I eat scrambled eggs, I also had muscle pain. This, too, could be caused by the oxidized cholesterol. But not as much with non-scrambled eggs.

    But I don't think it's due to the placebo effect because I had experienced them for years, before I know the chemistry behind it.

    Reply
  97. Organism, Maybe you are allergic to milk and eggs, they are 2 of the most common. I have had bad experiences with raw milk when I used to consume large quantities of it on a daily basis. I am also extremely allergic to eggs, until I found this out I used to force myself to eat them even though they made me sick because i thought they were "healthy".

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  98. anneatheart, and others who fear the weight gain,

    i'm trying really hard not to fear it, because i have seen amazing results from applying this high everything cure.

    since the pregnancies of my current 4 and 3 year olds, (back-to-back) where i had crippling nausea, complete lack of appetite, and therefore starvation for the entire two pregnancies, i have suffered with the rapid onset of morbid obesity, severe social anxiety, depression, IBS, extreme low energy, loss of strenghth, re-current ear infections and more symptoms.

    i have unofficially/half-assed been on the HED for about 6 months, and very officially on it since the middle of Jan 2010.

    since january i have gained about 25 pounds.

    first of all, I KNOW that a good portion of this weight must be muscles. i am strong! my back is solid — back pain has almost completely gone away, i can open anything with my hands easily, i can do hard housework and yard work again. this alone is amazing.

    but even better, my depression symptoms have been entirely eradicated. this has been the best winter/spring of my life. i tend to seasonal affective disorder even with out the depression i've had for the past 4 years. i quit my anti-depressants last summer, figuring i'd be getting back on them in the fall, but NOPE.

    my IBS has improved significantly but still has a bit to go. it is related to gall bladder issues, and this is a whole 'nother topic i would like to see discussed here and will bring up another day.

    i have stable energy and i feel very good. i am so warm, day and night. i've actually saved a significant amount in home heating costs compared to last year when i was so cold and slow all the time. i even wake up sweating sometimes now, which makes me happy. my skin is clear for the first time in 4 years as well. alcohol and stimulant cravings have subsided for me.

    the HED just has to be beneficial, despite weight gain. i'm excited to see what my body is further capable of, this is all so interesting. i've been eating a traditional foods diet for about 5 years, but focusing on never skipping meals and making sure to fill up on carbs in addition to protein and fat seems to have brought me to a 180. good luck everyone!

    Reply
  99. JT,

    Your body probably got immuned to milk and eggs because you ate it so much every single day.

    Reply
  100. Anonymous, I didn't eat eggs every single day, only a few times a week, so that is not how I developed the allergy. I had only been drinking raw milk in large quantities for a few months when I ran into problems, before that I would only drink it occasionally.

    Reply
  101. Crazy Mother, congrats on the positive results. You are smart not to focus on the weight gain if you are feeling better.

    You said that you had been eating healthy for the previous 5 years. Is the only change been that you have added a lot more carbs into your diet?

    Reply
  102. adding a LOT more carbs was the big change for me, yes

    the other notable changes were:

    -added 1-2 extra (high-carb) meals a day
    -mega dosed on vitamin D3 for 2 weeks
    -mental work on stress reduction and embracing the nourishing of myself with all this food

    Reply
  103. oh and thanks for the congrats JT! it really has been a ride.

    Reply
  104. "i even wake up sweating sometimes now, which makes me happy"

    You kinda have to wonder what kind of weird people we have to be to be happy about being able to sweat. Same for me here. Thanks to the HED, I'm able to sweat again, which is awesome (well not necessarly, but I think you get what I mean^^)

    Oh and congrats from me aswell.

    Reply
  105. Crazy Mother, your results are interesting. It is looking more and more like the positive feedback people are having is due mostly to increasing carbs more than any other macro nutrient. Myself and Matt both having the same experience. I am really starting to lean more towards a higher carb lower fat diet for most. Was your diet before mostly lower in carb?

    Reply
  106. Madmuhh, the hot body temperature while sleeping is interesting. When I was low carb/paleo I would always be cold. My girlfriend at the time was a very lean vegetarian who ate a very low fat, high starch diet, and I used to always wonder why her body was so hot when she was sleeping, almost like a furnace. We had to leave the window open even during winter because she was so hot.

    Reply
  107. I would like to share some thoughts with you guys that are pertinent to this current discussion. I'd love to hear your feedback.

    I recently saw a video lecture of Dr. Nicholas Gonzalez about "Nutrition and the Autonomic Nervous System," which is basically a main component of metabolic typing. He explained that people are on a spectrum regarding the ANS: from sympathetic-dominant (SD) to parasympathetic-dominant (PSD) and anywhere in between. Something that struck me about this is that he said SDs can tolerate unsaturated fats (like LA & ALA) better and do well on them, because those fats stimulate the parasympathetic side of the nervous system, which is weakened in a SD person. He says SDs also do better with a slightly more "vegetarian" diet, while PSDs prefer more meat-based fare, especially red meat, because that strengthens the sympathetic side. Anyway, the reason I bring this up is because it makes me think that Jon Gabriel may be more of a SD type, who does better with lots of fish/flax oil and salads, etc. Anyway, there's a lot more to it, and I still question some of it, but I think it's really interesting. I've found that I may be more on the PSD side, which is associated with hyper-immunity. When I take too much magnesium or chromium, for example, which further stimulate the parasympathic side, I sneeze a lot and get rashes on my hands. Weird!

    Also, I'm reading Bruce Lipton's The Biology of Belief which Matt has also read. Wow! This stuff really scientifically validates all the "woo-woo" stuff we've been talking about and that Jon Gabriel espouses. Basically, Lipton says that our cells "read" information from both our inner stimuli (like immune system and histamine) and outer stimuli (like adrenaline and our "beliefs"), and that the OUTER stimuli always override the inner stimuli. For instance, someone who is unsure of the safety of raw milk drinks it and gets sick, while the person who believes it to be health-giving doesn't. I highly recommend this book, especially if you're interested in cell biology and quantum physics.

    Reply
  108. Gina, I agree that there are types that will do better on different kinds of diets. The metabolic typing that Nicholas Gonzalez does is taken from William Donald Kelly, and pretty much everything he does is based on Kelly's work, He gives Kelly the credit which is rare in this biz. This is the one style of metabolic typing that I think is legitimate, it has been ripped off and dumbed down by other people trying to sell books about metabolic typing. I plan on doing more research in this area in the future, as i now believe that different things are healthy for different people, and there is no such thing as a "healthy" diet, it all depends on the individual.

    Reply
  109. Crazy Mother good to hear all the positive results. Its getting over that one hurdle that can blind everyone as to the benefits of truly nourishing the body so that it can heal, that was your biggest accomplishment. The weight gain.

    Very nice job.

    JT add me to the list, as carbs have been a huge contribution to improvements. As it's been 8 or so months and all is well. Sure not as lean as when low carbing but boundless energy, significant increase in muscle mass and strength, warmth, consistence in bowl movements, and the list goes on and on.

    Reply
  110. JT, Gina

    I have not been exposed to this material, but does it cover how "outside" stimuli can shift ones "metabolic type"? Meaning is there an emphasis on "adjust" the type better handle a wide variety of foods. Or is it just this is the type of food you do well on so just stick with it?

    Reply
  111. Nathan,

    Yeah, I think I know what you mean, and this is where I struggle with this dietary philosophy (metabolic typing). Not sure if Gonzalez would agree, but in William Wolcott's book he says that your type can shift and change depending on a number of factors -can't remember exactly what, though. The way I see it from my personal experience is this: I was a high-carb vegetarian from age 11 to 27. I did okay, but got fairly unhealthy in the last 5-6 years. So it's like I shifted my metabolic type from one that could tolerate vegetarianism ("carb type") for a while, to one that required more meat and fat ("protein type"). And it could also be said that now, and prior to age 11 or so, my metabolic type is more that of a "mixed" type. But it does seem like if someone can't "tolerate" a type of food, that maybe there's just something wrong with their digestion. I'm experimenting with some of these principles on myself and my husband, and so far it seems like he may be slightly more of a sympathetic-dominant (i.e. his digestion shuts down very easily when he's stressed), while I'm a little more on the parasympathetic side (i.e. I love fatty red meat, my hubby gags at the sight of it). Though I think we're both closer to the middle in general.

    Reply
  112. One theme that I see in comments at this blog and others seems to be: "I did great on such and such a diet at first, and then I got worse. So I switched to such and such, and got better, then worse. Then I switched to another diet, etc, etc, etc". Whether the switch they're talking about is high carb to low carb, or high fat to low fat, or vegan to all meat, or whatever, it always seems to be the change that makes a difference, rather than a specific diet. At least that's what I'm sensing after reading sooo many personal stories.

    Could it be just switching our diet around is what works? Or is there really an optimal diet for each of us – and nobody's been following it yet? Will HED be great at first, and then years from now people will be back to problems again? Just thought I'd throw that out there and see what people think.

    Of course, I bought my very own thermometer today, and am HED-ing it for the whole family… The only difference for us is I'm making sure we eat protein, fat, and carbs at every meal, although I'm not worrying about the ratios too much. I make everything from scratch and don't have time to use the nutrient calculators! Plus I'm not letting the kids say they're hungry anymore. They get buttery, brothy rice when they get hungry (I think that was your idea JT). We always packed on the calories, so the big difference is the carbs at every singe meal – usually it was just once a day.

    I have to admit I'm not thrilled about the idea of gaining weight, though, I have no problems with my weight and don't want to! I just want to fix all the other health issues…

    Just to let you all know, the 100 lbs of bananas are now officially all consumed… so hubby went out and got more yesterday! We eat them for dessert with fat and protein, and haven't seen any obvious problems.

    Reply
  113. Wolcott and Gonzalez got the metabolic types from Kelly. Kelly seemed to think that the reason you get sick is because you are eating a diet that is not right for your type, and you should not try to change your type to fit the diet, you should change the diet to fit the type.

    In ayurveda, your type doesn't change, but eating a diet that is not right for your type can cause you to have an imbalance towards another type.

    Reply
  114. Lorelei,
    If you do it right then increasing your carbs does not mean you have to get fatter. I am just as lean on high carbs as I was on low carbs. But, I have a lot more muscle on a high carb diet so I weigh more. The only time I ever started to look kind of fat is when I did high carb and high fat at the same time.

    Yeah, having a good asian rice cooker that keeps it hot and fresh 24 hours a day would be a great way to have food available for kids to get whenever they are starving. My best investment in foo so far.

    Reply
  115. I enjoyed Troy's "meltdown," as Jenny called it, also. Good job Troy!

    Oh, and here is another gem from the f-ing prick Richard: …"Matt’s fans don’t really quote science and you’ll note that there is not a single comment from a single person who says “I’ve been following Matt’s protocals for x weeks months and it happened just like he said: initial gain, ‘healed metabolism’ and now I weigh leas [sic] than when I started.'"

    This is an example of conformation bias. First of all, regarding his statement about following Matt's protocals, etc, and not there not being "a single comment from a single person." This is highly misleading! Richard was probably refering to the current comments, but he makes it sound as if nobody had ever left such a comment anywhere. However, that is nonsense. I have left comments on that assholes blog that come very near to saying the very thing he just mentioned. Consider these two quotes:

    "By success, I mean: better mood, improved body temperature, followed by a decrease in appetite and weight loss. Lots of people who stick with it and don’t freak out about the weight gain report those very things, myself included."

    …"I used to think that starches made me fat, too. Thus, I ate low carb and then paleo for a while. It worked okay for my for some time, but then I ran into the very problems Matt describes. So I used his approach, healed my metabolism and health, and can eat freely of all the macro-nutrients, the way a truly healthy person can."

    Both of these quotes are from comments I left under his post "Richard Nikoley has a 'Low Body Temperature' and 'Edema?' You be the judge." As mentioned above, they come very close to saying the very thing he denied any of Matt's followers ever having said.

    As for his comment regarding "science." That too is nonsense. Many of Matt's "followers" have quoted some form of science to him, whether it be epidemiological or otherwise. Just read the comments under "Richard Nikoley has a 'Low Body Temperature' and 'Edema?' You be the judge." Or how about "HED: High Everything Diet (If eating garbage is your problem, just eat more of it)."

    Morever, how many research papers actually exist on over-feeding? Very few, and many of them are flawed, largly because of the type of food they used. In addition, some just mention macro-nutrient percentages, and don't even list the type of food used. And as for starches and health/weight: Richard himself admits starches are probably not all that problematic. So I cannot see the need for quoting science in that respect.

    Cleary, Richard has a confirmation bias. He only wants to address information that supports his view. His statement about none of Matt's followers reporting success is both misleading and dishonest.

    In light of this, one has to question his "you be the judge" rhetorical technique. Frankly, I don't think he really means it.

    Richard is nothing more than an insecure, cowardly blowhard. Matt, I really admire how you are ignoring him. Kudos!

    Reply
  116. @ DML: Totally agree with you about Nikolay. The guy is a bit of a sad case really, he goes about galavanting his topless photos in which he looks plain ridiculous and fat to be frank. And I think Matt put it best in saying "He lost weight through a low carb diet and fasting" yet people treat him like a messiah. Anyone would lose weight on his shitty diet. Another thing is that all the low carbers look emancipated in spite of lifitng weights as I did when Paleoing…

    The only exceptions seem to be Mark Sisson (who I am sure is getting a little help from Vitamin T) and Keith Norris who is genetically gifted and was previously a competitive body builder.

    @ JT: Your point about keeping carbs high and fat low are interesting but I have a question for you? what would you consider a high fat and high carb meal to be?
    I find when eating to appetite and cooking normally the fat content of my meal stays pretty low at about 10-20g per meal…. I need to go nuts of the fat to start getting higher content but then this diminishes my appetite so that I will eat less carbs naturally. Seems as though mother nature takes care of overdoing both carbs and fat at the same meal time.

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  117. Funny thing is that these low-carbing gurus even know that they are wrong about carbs, and they will admit it publicly (even Dr. Harris of PaNu, radical wing of paleo movement, so to say, once said, that Taubes "strictly speaking" is not against carbs as such – which I believe is not entirely true statement). But when you challenge them with facts about paleo way not working for so many people long term (my case too), their higher cognitive functions go into complete shutdown and you get them preaching their cult. What a sight.

    Given the extremely shitty nature of medical research, which had disintegrated into complete chaos long time ago, what is the point of citing the "science"? It's a lot safer not to and navigate yourself empirically, and at best cautiously follow people like Ray Peat or Diana Schwarzbein, who have clinical experience and good ideas about what works and what does not based on long term work with their patients. Most paleo bloggers learned how to selectively quote from abstracts of studies supporting their dogma without having real understanding of statistical unrealiability of these studies. I don't think anyone of them has at least average understanding of statistics, and therefore can not understand what these studies really say of don't say. Richard Feynman called this approach to science "cargo cult science" – something that exhibits outer signs of science, like people using scientific terms, referring to scientific papers etc., but underneath it's completely hollow and devoid of real science. Good if you want to support your bias or make some money, but anti-scientific in it's nature. If you asked them to start using the same quality standards as hard sciences like particle physics, the truth about their "science" would be revealed in an instant.

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  118. @JT: Yeah, carbs were the deciding factor for me aswell.

    And I personally don't think that one has to switch around his diets to be healthy. There certainly is something to metabolic typing and there may be some variations in people, but I think that the main problem with most diets is that they are too extreme. This is also why I think that a real low-fat diet also isn't healthy on the long run. There are a lot of cultures who did just well on a very specific diet without switching anything around, so I refuse to believe that switcing around diets is the key (of course eating a diet that is too monotonous probably isn't the best either).

    Right now I have to agree with JT that high-carb and high-fat is probably the most fattening combo (but may also have some benefits HED-wise), Since I dropped the amount of fat I eat a bit, my weight gain seems to have at least stalled, perhaps even reversed (I don't weigh myself).

    But I still think that going too low in fat probably will be problematic aswell (apart from the fact that it is really hard to get below 10% of calories as fat as long as you don't wanna deprive your taste buds). I think Weston Price was onto something when he talked about a deficiency of fat soluble vitamins and even though the body can make its own saturated fat, I still believe it would be wise to get a good amount of saturated fat, especially coconut oil, simply because it has so many health benefits. So personally I think that the Kitavan ratios are probably the best for me. High in carbs, not too low in fat and of course enough protein to suit your structural needs, but not more. (This may be more than the Kitavans consumed of you are into weight lifting or other sports).

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  119. @madmuhh:
    I personally think that the "need for fat soluable vitamins" is very much over-stated and over-hyped. I just did a post on my blog about the potato revolution in ireland. One of the quotes was:

    "The chairmen, porters, and coalheavers in London, and those unfortunate women who live by prostitution, the strongest men and the most beautiful women perhaps in the British dominions, are said to be the greater part of them from the lowest rank of people in Ireland, who are generally fed with this root. No food can afford a more decisive proof of its nourishing quality, or of its being peculiarly suitable to the health of the human constitution."

    These people were literally living and thriving on potatoes almost entirely. It was occasionally supplemented with the rare bit of bacon or touch of milk.
    These irish were eating a nearly kitavan style diet and due to that:

    "The potato enabled a large family to live on food produced in great quantities at a trifling cost, and, as the result, the increase of the people has been gigantic."

    I have been eating this 'irish/kitavan' way for about 5 months and am feeling and looking the best I ever have.

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  120. @Riles:
    Very interesting. I think the most stupid part of my low-carb escapade was my aversion against potatoes. I mean avoiding grains certainly is understandable to some degree, but potatoes? There's absolutely nothing wrong with those (I guess I also should apologize to the potatoe).

    So what are your macronutrient ratios?

    Oh, and thanks for mentioning your blog, just took a look at it for the first time and gonna read my way through some posts now.

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  121. madmuhhh:
    I was the exact same way as you were about low carb. I did the whole zero-carb thing and soon began losing muscle and was so fatigued all I wanted to do was lay in bed all day.

    I think a question that should be asked is "do active people need carbs or do carbs make you more active"? I think that once a person improves their insulin sensitivity (through reduced fructose and Omega 6) they should slam on those starches.
    So make amends with those tubers, you won't regret it.

    I have found that if I eat enough starches I dont really crave fats. Occasionally (once a week or so) I will eat a fatty steak or fat heavy dish. Right now my macros are about 60% carb 25% protein 15% fat. I eat more protein because I am into bodybuilding, but I do play around with those numbers every once in a while.

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  122. Ahhh, I'm back. Two days away from the internet. Refreshing. Seeing how excellent the commentary has been since I left I think I should probably take 2-day siestas more often.

    Felix-
    Hilarious. I'm a big fan of your presentation. Took me second to catch on too which made me laugh at myself and check out your links.

    For years I bludgeoned fructose, and as you will find in the new eBook I still have very little love for it. During that time I maintained that fats, even PUFA, while the theoretical evidence was strong – it really didn't appear like the type of fat had much to do with anything.

    It wasn't until I had benefits from cutting PUFA down that I had much to say about it. Many people have had low-PUFA improvements. Same for David Brown who had health problems for years and then overnight they started improving when he dropped the peanut butter. My girlfriend has been a long time peanut butter lover too. She cut it out and no more cold sore outbreaks.

    So I'm certainly pleased with a little PUFA restriction, especially knowing that it does target a core imbalance and reverses it accordingly.

    On RRARF, I like the name as a descriptor for the actual overfeeding phase. Sounds like a gag reflex. I'm leaning more towards it standing for:

    Rehabilitative Rest & Agressive Re-Feeeding

    High-Everything also implies that there can be little flexibility, and as soon as any of us start saying "eat more starch and less fat for better results" it sounds like backtracking.

    Vida-
    Great results. Don't take your lowered set point for granted. Millions of people have lost 100 pounds, but only a small percentage were able to eat as much food as they wanted without weight regain after losing that weight. Dropping the set point by 100 pounds is something that no obesity researcher has ever found a way to do.

    So hey, why focus on science? Science says that lowering the set point is impossible. If you want to have any hope at doing it, better listen to the advice of someone who did do it, like Jon Gabriel.

    Glad to hear the good results of those who have really gone full board with HED/RRARF. I'm starting to think that the main benefit comes from gaining weight more than any other, but this remains to be seen. I think virtually all of the changes experienced can be traced back to simply being at or above the body weight set point.

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  123. Riles-

    I believe "slamming on the starches" is the way to improved insulin sensitivity. Why wait?

    Even the obese in metabolic wards who have been forced to gain 10% of their body weight by consuming 1,000 calories above maintenance – in a liquid drink that is 40% corn oil, have become resistant to further weight gain, hypermetabolic beyond what could be explained by their increase in lean body mass during overfeeding, HYPO-phagic (loss of appetite), and so on.

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  124. Exercise will improve insulin sensitivity as well. Actually, I think this is the key to improving it rapidly.

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  125. @Riles:
    I don't necessarily crave fats either, stuff just tastes better with it. I think my ratios might be similar to your maybe a little higher in fat, but going lower in fat already seemed to be beneficial from a weight gain standpoint, however the question arises if this is also better from a healing standpoint if Matt says that the main benefit of HED/RRARF comes from gaining weight.

    Oh, and another question. I've always ben into weightlifting, but never with too great results (probably because of low-carb), so would you mind if I get over to your blogs within the next few days and ask for some support regarding a good exercie routine? Your blog seems to be the better place for that, as you seem to be discussing that already anyways and I don't wanna clog Matt's comment section even more.

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  126. @Lorelai…BINGO…I have thought the same thing. That may be one of the advantages of carb cycling. It may also be a case of the body trying to converge to good health…you go vegan and you get some health benefits but long-term you are protein deficient, then you switch to low carb, you over compensate the protein, which helps but then you get too much protein, and so on.

    @JT…BINGO…I got real fat, real fast when I did the first version of HED that was high in fat and starch at the same time (think baked potatoes smothered in butter, loaded with cheddar, and then piled high with sour cream…yes, I got fat eating that, LOL!) I lost a bunch of weight doing carb cycling, then switched to a higher carb, lower fat and protein way of eating and actually lost a little bit more. Like breakfast is a full cup of dry oatmeal with 2 cups of water, a bunch of cinnamon and some sea salt, lunch is frozen veggies and rice (i.e. 2 or 3 plates full of rice and maybe the same for dinner, or a baked potato or two with some sort of meat. Every now and then I throw in an omelet meal (low carb) or steak, salad and veggies, but that is just here and there. I may eat up to 6 cups of cooked rice in a day. Similar to what Riles eats.

    The only thing that I want to reiterate is that pretty much every health group of people eat more fat than protein. Even super low fat eating Clarence Bass started adding some fat to his diet and his triglycerides plummetted and he said that he actually got leaner.

    http://www.cbass.com/TRIGLYCE.HTM

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  127. Hawaii Girl-

    I think extreme diets help overturn imbalances quickly, but created new imbalances that lead to problems down the line as well.

    I should respond a little more to Gabriel's omega 3 infatuation as well…

    There is quite a bit of evidence in support of omega 3's. There's no doubt that they help to encounter negative omega 6 imbalances, and can be beneficial for weight loss.

    Gabriel probably had a very high level of cellular omega 6 when he was 400 pounds. And overcoming this imbalance, while still consuming a lot of nuts, avocado, salad dressings, etc. probably DOES require 10 grams of omega 3 per day.

    But it's also quite clear that balance between the two fats is the most important overall, but that eating a little of each is better than eating a lot of each.

    I might recommend 1 gram of omega 3 and 2 grams omega 6 per day.

    Gabriel might recommend 10 grams omega 3 and 20 grams omega 6. Both approaches could have positive metabolic impact, but note – you don't have to eat 10 grams of omega 3 per day to take advantage of that and their may be dangers in doing so. You can get the same boost from 1 gram per day is your omega 6 is low enough. That's why lowering omega 6 is a much smarter approach, and you get much more mileage out of the omega 3 you consume without having to megadose it.

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  128. Interesting point on Clarence Bass. But, he only added 1 tablespoon a day of extra fat. That is not much at all in the total scheme of things. He still eats a low fat, high carb diet. This is a reasonable amount, I probably am at the same macros as him. The only extra fat i get is about 1 tablsepoon a day of ghee.

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  129. Wow the switch has been flipped. I like it. Kudos to Mad!

    I think you should really get the images for your links consistent with alignment and size. Or eliminate them?

    Very nice!

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  130. We're working on it. He sent me new graphics and tabs that fit that description, but it's in a file I'm unable to open at the moment. I'll get it figured out soon hopefully – and work out some of the kinks.

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  131. Hey no worries and no rush. I guess everyone has an opinion about something :)

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  132. @JT…my point on Clarence Bass wasn't to use him as an example of consuming more fat than protein (which was my fault because of the way that I wrote it) but to point out that you can consume too little fat and that even adding a little bit more can be beneficial. Sorry for the mix up.

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  133. Nice, the fonts and spacing are much easier on the eye! Works well with the orig colors.

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  134. Mad:
    Definitely stop on by. I love discussing weight lifting and how it relates with nutrition.

    Matt:
    Why is it that some people are only satisfied eating by volume?

    I have found that with two similar calorie meals that the one that takes up the most space in my stomach leaves me feeling great. Fats alone just don't fill me up, but starches alone do.
    Is this some kind of hormonal signaling, stomach stretching, or some sort of primitive adaption to famine?

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  135. OhhhHHHhhh, now I get it, I just read your post on Gabriel. Very true, a lot of folks eat a restricted diet and lower their calories to lose weight. Once they have reached their ideal weight, they resume eating the way they used to, such as, increasing more calories in their diet. So when they increase their calories, they gain weight…and if you consume more calories as it goes on…you put on more weight…

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  136. HED/RRARF! I love it! Sounds like some heavy metal slang. It blew my mind – a real HED/RRARF!

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  137. Not sure about the volume thing Riles. Perhaps the more you fill your stomach the slower the digestion and emptying time of the stomach. A full stomach does impact satiety hormones like ghrelin. However, adding fat triggers the release of CCK, another satiety hormone. Fiber has always been granted with darling status because it is more "filling" due to the bulk. However, I suspect this is just a short-term effect.

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  138. thanks for the response on omega 3… i figured it helped him balance the omega 6 from bodyfat and his recommendations to eat avacados, nuts, and salad dressings.

    Fiber does nothing to feel me up… i have to have some kind of starch and some fat, or i am left unsatisfied.

    troy

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  139. if i'm generally avoiding omega 6 's, but am very overweight after a lifetime of omega 6's, is it beneficial for me to take omega 3's for weightloss purposes?

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  140. That's a good question. Omega 3 will accelerate the rate at which omega 6 is displaced. In the past I have stated that I thought IF one were to take omega 3 in supplemental form, it would be best to take a large dose for a short period of time (like 5-10 grams for 1 month), and then gradually reduce omega 3 intake to what you might get from eating reasonable amounts of fish thereafter. Kind of a jump start to making progress with that as you lower omega 6 intake. If you do try it, please let us know if you really felt that it made a difference specifically with weight loss.

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  141. thanks for responding, i remember this being touched on before and have been mulling it over.

    i think i will do temporary omega 3 dosing. i'll update for sure.

    i figure — i missed the prime cold water fish harvest a few months ago. i heart fish and don't eat it enough, my grandparents and previous generations ate a lot of cold water fish. simulating a fish feast could be beneficial for me.

    and, if there's a chance it could help me increase my metabolism, it's definitely easy enough to add in.

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  142. Ha ha! Thieves!

    Thanks Gazelle. I've been thinking about it more in these terms lately too, trying to come up with the perfect time frame to get the greatest boost in the shortest amount of time. Is RRARF/HED best in 3-day spurts? 7-day spurts? 30 days? Only time will tell, but the shorter the time period the more dedication people can give to it. Laying around doing nothing and eating as much as possible for 3 days is much more doable than trying to create a calorie surplus for an entire month. I'll experiment with this later in the year for sure.

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  143. I can imagine trying this once I get lean. You think about naturally lean people who overeat on the holidays and then bounce back. Also, periodic overfeeding could help when you feel run down, stressed, ill, over-trained, or your temps go down or right before you want to try dropping some weight maybe?

    My naturally super-lean boyfriend developed an unnaturally raging appetite around New Years. He was going through pecan pies faster than I could bake them. It was amazing to watch such a normally light eater shovel it in like that. He went with it, and it resolved itself in a week or so. He didn't gain an ounce. I think he was worn out from stress and his body knew exactly what it needed.

    Right now I'm experimenting with carb cycling with some super-low "Evans & Strang" days included. This is after only 30 days of HED. It feels much more comfortable than my previous "binge/starve" pattern though. Maybe improved leptin sensitivity is involved? Or maybe it's just mental.

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  144. My belief is simply that overfeeding restores the body's ability to burn fat, lowers the appetite, and so on. Evans and Strang is a little extreme. Rather, I'll probably continue to advise people to commit fully to RRARF/HED until temps. have come up before pursuing weight loss. When weight loss is pursued, it must be hunger and overexertion-free and body temps. should be monitored to see that they are remaining stable.

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  145. Overfeeding may help to let it all go…and "all" means: diets, rejecting your body, eating only certain foods in order to weigh less etc etc. So that would un-stress people…BUT The Jon Gabriel Method is NOT about eating, NOT about Food, Not about exercise, BECAUSE the human body regulates eating certain food and hunger unconsciously, which means that the human will does NOT play any role. So the strangest thing has been happening over the last say 50 years: trying to use will power for something which is controlled by a unconscious system, Conclusion: that doesn´t work and that´s exactly the conclusion of this Jon Gabriel (there is no substitute for actually reading the book and/or listening to all his radio shows) after dieting and trying to lose weight for many years. His revelation was: The fat program is triggered by stress. The fat program is a very ancient program and protected us against famines and cold. And now it interprets stress as cold. So you have to heal the stress. Then your body will turn on the Thin program and the body will automatically – WITHOUT you doing anything – make you slim. The body will force you to eat certain foods to accomplish this task and probably it will make you feel like doing some form of movement. So food and exercise are effects and NO causes of a thin body! That´s the most difficult part of this paradigm shift. Because everybody seems to know that weight management is about you willing to do certain thing like eating certain food and moving in a certain way. But – and Jon proves that – that´s not true. Jon lost all his weight and skin without doing anything, except for addressing his stress, so that his body didn´t think anymore it was in famine. He also followed his heart by leaving a money making company on Wall street and doing what he loved to do. And that takes courage, almost everybody prefers to follow fitness guru rules and conventional wisdom, although they just don´t work, but hey it´s so nice to stick your head in the sand…read the book…by the way I have absolutely no commercial interest in Jon´s company, I just made a paradigm shift and it made me sooooo happy, finally no stress about food anymore, finally accepting my body the way it is!

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  146. Thanks Zazu-

    The premise I'm working behind is that yes, the body's famine response is activated in many people – thin or fat. Of the stresses that trigger the famine response, hunger and overexertion are the two greatest – as well as nutrient deficiency.

    The best test for seeing if the body is in conservation/famine mode is to check the body temperature at rest. When below normal, it is the most readily observable sign that the body is operating in hibernation mode.

    There is no better way to convince the body to get out of famine mode than overfeeding, which is why it's very powerful – moreso than thyroid medication, at bringing the body temperature to the ideal range.

    It's at the top of that temperature range that all of Gabriel's "results" of being out of famine mode start to set in (automatically, without much conscious effort – of course, if you continue to eat more than you desire, you never give your body a chance to lose any fat). That's the point of my upcoming eBook revision, and Gabriel is mentioned and quoted heavily throughout it.

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  147. JT or whoever,
    I work out 3-4 times per week. Besides that I am pretty active with shopping, housework, going to the pool, and taking care of my son. When I go to the gym and workout I get like a rush of energy for a couple hours after, but then I crash big time. Usually around 2 or 3 in the afternoon. I get so tired that I have to lie down, I get tired physically and I become extremely sleepy. What can I do about this? Thanx

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  148. Vida- sounds like you're working out a little too much. Why not try taking a light walk?

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  149. I suggest taking a nap if you can. About 1 hr is perfect. I do it naturally just about everyday at 2. It is a great rejuvenater.

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  150. Funny thing about what you said about food being more healing than thyroid… Gabriel didn't use thyroid… and you would have expected it, but he did it all based on nutrition, pretty amazing!!!

    Vida…3-4 times a week at the gym is way to much!! One or Two times a week at the gym for a quick strength session is perfect…. i wouldn't go till you fill like going to the gym also, those are my best workouts… when i haven't been in awhile and i am really itching to go and blow the weights up!!!!

    troy

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  151. @ Vida: I have to agree with Troy take it easy with the weight training. Keep the volume down and limit things to 1-2 a week when you really feel like hitting the gym. Otherwise stick to long walks, some stretching and maybe some random cardio for 20 mins on bike if you are sedentary. By the sounds of things your kids are keeping you active enough, so just move around when you feel like it.

    @ Troy: How many of those barefooted runs are you doing a week? and are they steady state?

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  152. Ok thanks guys…
    I can't go to the gym less, in fact my husband is always on my case because I don't go 7 days a week. He doesn't really understand and is in the mind set of "exercise more and eat less." Anyways, I think I'll just stick to walking and quit with the interval running.
    Naps would be awesome! However, I have a 3 year old and he sometimes does not nap and when he does it is the only free time I have in the day and usually do homework (or read this blog) during that time. I would love a vacation just to sleep.

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  153. Chris,

    About twice a week… Sometimes there steady runs… when i go into the mountains there definitely intervals. I usually just run when i feel like it though.. there never planned, i run when i feel like it…. sprints are pretty fun though.

    troy

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  154. I got halfway through the book then gave up. Why? One of the ways he identifies FAT Programs is related to stress and a feeling that one is not safe. He says we can use fat to protect ourselves emotionally. Well, yeah. That's a big problem for me. I don't feel safe. I do use fat to keep me protected, hidden, safe, still and distant. The stress of having a knee that needs replaced, being in a wheelchair and working 3 jobs to make ends meet doesn't help. I didn't believe that playing his nighttime hypnotic messages would help because deep down I believe I need the fat to protect me. You can't change a deep seated belief with a smear of positive affirmations. Everything else he had to say was spot on. Maybe I'll try to finish the book when I feel less attacked by life.

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  155. I just wanted to declare how happy I am to find this website. Let me explain further; I am 23 years old, and though still a youngster in age terms, by all accounts I have experienced a very rough seven years. I developed an eating disorder from the age of 15/16 (bulimia at this time) which has continued to this day including compulsive over eating and bouts of anorexia. As I have struggled to figure out THE cause, i have managed to get through (luckily) numerous eating disorders as my weight has fluctuated and I have tried to obtain some sort of control over my life, of which entirely has consisted of struggling to find myself whilst food took me by the hand down various suicide attempts, agrophobia (where i was so distraught about my life and not knowing what to do with food that i would stay in bed facing a wall for 6 months at a time, refusing to acknowledge my family even), body dismorphia (according to doctors, apparently) and awful depressions. . . .

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  156. . . . .I think that food has played a huge part in my destructive tendencies over the years. I have been to see numerous professionals trying to deal with the emotional side, which actually just furthered my problems. I was being told by such people that the eating disorders have some logic in soothing the self due to low self esteem or family problems. However this is utter nonsense, I do not think that my life experiences are so drastically different from any body else's. I do not think that my problems arose due to some emotional problems. Rather, i think my problems surfaced when i tried to diet and become what i wanted to become, skinnier. Which i think is safe to say, a trend that occurs in your teenage years especially whilst one is growing. I was also very aware of eczema flare-ups when i was a teen and when i intuitively cut wheat out from my diet, my eczema disappeared and stomach bloating also.

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  157. . . . .This made me feel better about myself, and so i tried to figure what would make me feel even better? What other foods are preventing my happiness? So soon enough, what began as a natural instinct that something was wrong for me (wheat) became a further rational to diet. Incidentally the diet i chose to follow was atkins; when the atkins diet became quite prevalent on the news, tv programs and websites. I followed the atkins diet rigorously when i was 18, felt the best I had ever felt physically and emotionally, but soon developed anorexia, , (violently sick at university) obsessed with food, addicted to food, bulimia returns, i have a mental breakdown where i cant now even decide what to eat, become very sick, my immune system very low, I drop out of university, my periods disappear for a good two years, and start binge eating, don't leave my house for a year, gain many many stones in weight (size 6/8 – size 20), filled with self loathing and desperation, suicide attempt quickly follows. This pattern has returned time and again, however now i cant even loose weight and i am actually naturally quite slim.

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  158. . . . .I also find it incredibly difficult sticking to any diet as i have tried them all, and just struggle, becoming avoidant towards all the things most people value in their lives. It has been especially hard eradicating all the memories i have connected to food whilst i try to eat normally. I have read so many books related to nutrition and have just been so confused over my relationship to food, questioning whether i will ever be able to develop a normal life. I am now in university again second time round (5 years later), and though i have learnt an awful lot which i cant even hope to describe here or any of my struggles in vast detail, i'm finding the same pattern continues, which makes me feel so frustrated because one would assume surely it would be easy to change now, because I desperately want to change. Well i now can see that what i have learnt are beginning to surface and one contribution to this development within my self is coming across articles like this one, which simply and entirely make sense with all the things i have experienced with my body and mind.

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  159. I really cant transmit what each little contribution like this one, means to me. With a very very very vague explanation; It means that there was some rational behind my experiences, and that sometimes doctors simply do not know what they are talking about in terms of treatment and healing. The advice i have received by my parents and likewise doctors have completely fucked me up! I won't excuse the expression for the reason that all problems are assumed to be a matter of mind, and a matter of will power, not a physiological problem it takes time to understand. It is very easy with this mind set, to loath being alive, to feel as though one is truly a failure, where ones life is irredeemable. Anyhow enough, enough of the ranting. I just wanted to say thank-you for all the out of the box thinkers out there that help contribute to individual happiness. XX

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  160. Oh and i almost forgot, to reiterate, unless my comments weren't clear enough; DON'T DO ATKINS! DON'T BOTHER DIETING!

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  161. Thanks Jenna and welcome. We'd love to hear more from you. I understand your story well – it reads almost exactly like the experiences of my own girlfriend doing low-carb. Emotional wackiness. No periods. All followed by feeling great in the short-term.

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  162. Cheers! I like your writing style by the way! I think you should read some thing of David Graeber; a crazy Canadian Anthropology professor specializing in Anarchism! huhh hmm; he was fired from Yale; and luckily he teaches me in good old England where he buries his eccentricities in ramblings, mumblings, musings to self in class of almost hysterical pupils looking on hoping for some understanding through his flights of fancy! Good luck to us, I say! Perhaps in third year we'll catch on, a little . . .but seriously he writes with humor, and quite fascinating too (actually brilliant)! If your interested that is!

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  163. Matt,

    As far as I know the incorrect Omega 3: Omega 6 ratio that we find in meats, egg, milk etc are caused by the animals being fed a diet artificially high in concentrates (corn and soya meal primarily). Where the animals are primarily pasture fed (grass/clovers/seeds), as nature intended, the correct omega balance occurs in their meat and the products they produce. Feel free to contact me for further personally experienced information in this regard.

    Louis Murray

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  164. Congratulations on such a beautiful cover! The model

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  165. I know this is a really old post but i had to comment. i think there is a lot more to the mental and emotional component or what matt calls the woo woo component than many acknowlege. i was abused as a child and because of the things jon talks about i have realized how much fear, fear self loathing low self esteem and stress is buried just below the surface thar effects me constantly
    and that im going to have to deal with it.

    Reply

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