Hot Water vs. Cold Water Thermogenesis

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There is a growing trend in health circles about cold-water thermogenesis.  Cold water thermogenesis, or the idea behind it, is to submerge yourself in very cold water for a prolonged period – let’s say 20-30 minutes.  The objective is to encourage your body to produce more heat in response to this cold stimulation via increased thyroid output.  It’s theorized to be an effective weight loss tool, or at least Tim Ferriss says so, therefore it must be true, and be useful for other things too.  Jack Kruse has proposed using it for all kinds of medical purposes, such as recovery from surgery and other miscellaneous things.  It could be yet another, non-invasive tool to have in the toolbox for use against disease.

On one hand, it’s logical.  I have spent a lot of time in cold climates, and exposure to cold temperatures certainly increases one’s resistance to cold.  The body can adjust to become warmer in cold temps or cooler in hot temps, depending on what you condition it for.  And I do think that our modern, thermostat life makes most people’s temperature comfort range very small.  So yes, if you are in search of producing more body heat naturally, and being warmer with greater cold resistance – something those with a low metabolism are seeking to achieve, it makes some sense.

But I find the contrary, with all things considered, makes a lot more biological sense.

Cold water thermogenesis is certainly en vogue, but it’s not the only pro-metabolism temperature ideology out there.  In fact, Steve Richfield’s work advocates raising metabolism through overdressing and hot showers, thus conditioning your body’s thermostat to be set higher.  So there’s certainly more than one viewpoint on this.  Ray Peat also makes mention of warm baths as being calming to the nervous system and stimulating to the metabolism – almost as if metabolism is a 2-way street (warm up to raise metabolism or raise metabolism to warm up).

Cold water thermogenesis could certainly trigger some short-term weight loss.  It’s a huge calorie burner to drop your core temperature and have your body work overtime to try to bring it back up to normal.  Many weight loss gurus recommend drinking copious amounts of cold water just for the extra calorie burn of having to warm up all that ice water.  Obsessed much?

But overall, it makes little sense to me as a metabolism tool.  It makes little sense when you start to look at the type of adaptations you are asking your body to make in response to any given stimulus.  What’s the body’s defense against icy cold temperatures?  Body fat – polyunsaturated body fat at that.  At the higher latitudes you see more and more polyunsaturated fat, and higher body fat percentages working its way into the local fauna.  Even the amount of body fat in a fish is pretty closely tied to the water temperature.  That’s why you see omega 3 polyunsaturated fat accumulating in coldwater fish, as well as seals, whales, walruses, and other blubbery cold weather dwellers.

Heck, even cloaking a pig in a warm covering will make its fat tissue more saturated in nature – an appropriate response to warmth.  (Prof. Ray Wolfe, “Chemistry of nutrients and world food,” Univ. of Ore. Chem. 121, October 16, 1986.).  For newcomers to the site, metabolically-speaking, having saturated fat in your tissues as opposed to lots of polyunsaturated fat is considered to be highly pro-metabolic. 

Cold temperatures in winter are not conducive to better health and a higher metabolic rate either – or at least not greater leanness.  Winter is fattening and exacerbates most health conditions, whereas the hot temperatures of summer or the tropics tend to favor greater leanness and lessen most health conditions.  Most on thyroid meds have to up their dosage in the winter time just to keep hypothyroid symptoms at bay.

None of this of course takes into account the unrealistic idea that one is going to submerge themselves into icy water, intentionally, with any kind of regularity.  Talk about going against instincts – especially if you have a subpar metabolism and already have a major aversion to cold.

Anyway, the point of this post is to steer you towards what probably makes more sense for someone with a low metabolism, and will certainly FEEL better and more intuitive as well.  And that is to simply keep yourself on the warm side for a while, especially early-going in recovery before you are able to radiate abundant body heat at normal temperatures on your own.  There may even be, as Steve Richfield hypothesizes, a beneficial metabolism-resetting property to getting body temp up with hot showers, hot food, and warmer clothing.

In addition to “Eating for Heat,” sleeping for heat, and relaxing for heat – try adding on a few simple measures…

  1. Start the day with a hot shower to get your body temperature up nice and high.
  2. Dress warmly, especially around the hands and feet.
  3. Eat hot food, and maybe even make it a little spicy.
  4. Take a warm bath or bust out the heating pad before bed if you have a tendency to feel cold late in the evening.
  5. Spend more time being moderately active – triggering what’s called “Non-exercise activity thermogenesis” or NEAT.  Even just raising your heart beat a couple dozen beats a minute is enough to get most people’s body temperature soaring into the 99’s.

That should certainly sound a lot better than submerging yourself in ice water.

And it appears that keeping the body really warm and cozy is very de-stressing.  Even if you achieve a higher body temperature through such artificial means it can apparently still trigger many of the same health benefits as doing it in other ways.


  1. Ice cold bath vs. A nice, soothing and warm bath… Hmm… Seems pretty obvious to me which would be a more a better choice.

    • Oops, I meant to say, “which would be a better choice,” silly typo.

  2. I have had the same experience.

    If I don’t run my heat here in Oregon, I get night sweats – bad ones – because it is maybe 55 and moist in my house…..turning the heat up to 75 and cranking that mofo keeps my body nice and dry when I sleep. I think you had mentioned it could be the body getting rid of excessive fluids i order to hear up.

    • That may be it. Read some of that Steve Richfield stuff as he talks about night sweats and dumping adrenaline and other things. Although he seems a little touched in the head. Who doesn’t though, in the low temp world?

  3. Let see if I have this right. Pancakes, pizza, ice cream, lots of sleep, and warm showers. Eh… where do I sign up for team heat!

  4. Most cold pools I’ve experienced were in the context of a sauna. I always feel awesome after going to a sauna, especially in the winter.

  5. Really interesting post that I hope to read more deeply later. I’ve been thinking a lot about this. I def feel better and prefer warmth and heat, doing best in the summer season and worst at later winter, early spring. I like to take hot epsom salts bath a few days a week, which feels great.

    Thinking about the adaptation aspects of this is really thought provoking. YES, there is a reason that “fish oil” is found in cold water fish – it also acts as an anti-freeze. In the past, I have therefore thought that Omega 3 fats would be “warming” sense warming things tend to be found in cold areas and cooling foods in warm areas. This has always been frustrating and confusing when it comes up against the Ray Peat camp.

    • Love the Seal Picture! One could do what the Fins do and do both, Lie in the snow or Jump into an ice cold lake after a Sauna, Then go back to the Sauna again!

      • I used to do that in Bozeman hot springs when it was still old school and had a 110 pool right next to about a 50-degree pool. Thought my heart was going to explode going back and forth between the two, but it was almost a druglike high. Endorphins and glucocorticoids much?

        • I think I’m going to end everything I write today with “much?”

          • Lmao

  6. I am 120mcg of T3 for a year now and it has cured all of my hypo symptoms. I feel fantastic, and am often warm when others are cold. However, my body temperature absolutely *refuses* to rise. I am so frustrated with this. The only time it ever rises to optimal is when I take a hot shower. or when I eat so much food that my stomach hurts. I haven’t tried raising my T3 yet, as raising it never seems to elevate my temps, and I am scared of getting palpitations liked I used to have. However, it seems like that is the way to go.

    • Lynn, if you feel great, then why be “frustrated”. Maybe, just maybe, you do have an “optimal” temperature, it’s not the same as that of others, and you needn’t try to make it rise. I don’t know this to be the case, but I would certainly value “subjective” measures (such as “I feel great”) over some kind of baseline, statistical, objective measure (such as your temperature has to be 98.6 or above).

      • Good feedback Thomas. Body temperature is just a number if you are feeling and functioning better than you have in years. Even Broda Barnes didn’t seem to give the temperature much importance unless you were displaying signs of a low metabolism with it.

        • True, but what about all the research that shows BT should be at a certain level for enzymes etc. to work correctly? Plus, even though I feel great with all hypo symptoms gone, I still have autoimmune diseases, which makes me think that there is something off.

          Matt, what do you think of Steve Richfield’s methods? Do you think they could work well or have you ever known anyone who has tried them? I fit his textbook case I think, as my BT has been low for so many decades that even though T3 has eliminated all my hypo symtoms, my BT refuses to rise.

          • I don’t really know anyone who has tinkered with Steve Richfield’s ideas. That’s very kind of you to volunteer on behalf of all of us to test it out!

          • I tried it last night, and my temp did indeed go up. However, I hardly slept due to being so hot (even though temp had only risen to 97.7). It’s like my body temp bears no reflection to how hot or cold I feel, except when it is extremely low or something.

            So, my plan is to join those forums and seek his counsel. I plan to do it over the next few months after I have done my research.

          • Lynn, I know for me when i first started 97’s was also hot for me. Now, 4 months later, when I am hot and sweating my temp are mid 98’s. So I’m guessing it just takes a while for the body to adjust to being warmer. I barely check my temps now and go mostly by how warm I am. I feel way better than when I started, but if I see my daytime temp is only 97.8 I get kinda discouraged, but like Thomas said, feeling better in general is a good indication.

            Also, for anyone who cares, my sex drive is raging right now, but it is making me act very anti-metabolic. Now I spend nights chasing women and drinking low solute, alcoholic drinks when I should be sleeping, but I can’t help myself. I got a blowjob in my truck last week, slept 5 hours and was blazing hot at work all day.

          • Are you using Steve’s methods too? I get so thirsty and develop bad headaches when I am too hot; how did you cope with that?

          • No, I’m not familiar with Steve’s methods. I just read Eat for Heat and Diet Recovery 2 and started using their methods. I feel like if you are hot and thirsty, you should drink some fluids even if your temps aren’t where you want them to be. At first I was holding back against my thirst a lot more than I should have been, becuase I wanted faster progress. Now I eat and drink when I am hungry and thirsty. It took me 4 months to increase my hot/sweating body temp from 97’s to 98’s. I’m guessing it will take just as long until my temps are in the 99’s too.
            I’m not taking my temps very often now though, because so many other factors are getting better and better that it doesn’t matter. I assume i will check my temps a couple months down the road and it will be a little warmer than it is now, so I guess patience helps

          • Hey Matt,

            Based on the article you wrote I contacted Steve and am doing the low temp reset with him! Ask me anything ;)

            Actually, I was interested to discover that he takes temp in the mouth (that always sounds wrong). He said that Barnes developed the under-the-arm method for hygiene reasons and it has no other benefit. What do you think?

            Going by oral temp, my temp is not as low as I thought. I’ve managed to get my oral temp to 98.6F by just taking hot showers and wearing ridiculous amounts of clothes, but the body temp stays down at 97.52F (up from 96.44F!)

            Personally I think that both temps should be taken into consideration.. kind of seems counter intuitive to be hot in teh face but cold in the body.

          • Yeah I’m not that into armpit temps anymore anyway. Cool to hear you are trying it. Keep us posted!

          • Myself and a friend are both trying it and keeping journals as we go through the process. So hopefully there’ll be lots to report :) So far we’re both experiencing a lot of muscular aches, and a significantly decreased need to pee… even though we’re drinking more! It makes sense.

            You might find this interesting:

            This woman is a BIG supporter of Steve, and she’s made a list of all the ailments she cured by rasing her body temp. Steve reckons that if you find one right solution 80% of your health problems disappear. This has definitely been teh case for her…

            Love your wesbite btw Matt – I just finished following your refeeding guide and I’ve had great success with it! Really like your approach.

        • right on. happy to read this from you matt. i wish you would say things like this more often.

          there has been such an emphasis on this blog (among others) that “low” body temps were indicative of a “hypometabolic” state, it was getting kinda silly.


          • I have always said that, and more recently have stated something more along the lines of….

            A low metabolism is indicative of a low metabolism. When metabolism is reduced, signs are obvious. Reduced body temperature is only one way it manifests. While having a low temp is certainly not an encouraging sign, there are adaptations the body makes to certain things, like exercise, that reduce core temperture but, overall, are protective. A low temp doesn’t always mean you are sick. Nor does a high temp mean that you are well. My main focus is that people who are sick with a low temp usually start to feel better as their body temps come up. Which is why it is useful.

        • Interesting. I have wondered about this, because personally I start to feel feverish at 99. I had a hyperthyroid episode after my first child and my temperature stayed around there for about a month and I was SO miserable. (I did, however, lose 20 pounds in 1 month!). Even with ETF my temps seem to stay around 97.5- 98. I don’t have any other symptoms of a low metabolism, so I’m starting to think that this is just my normal. I was much warmer this winter than before, so the situation has improved for sure.

          My husband seems to have a crazy high metabolism, by contrast, but is less healthy than I am, so it’s definitely not all about metabolism. My husband could be that guy sitting in shorts on the ice, lol.

      • I remember Kurt Harris supporting his dismissal of the whole Broda Barnes thing with saying that his temps never go beyond mid 97s, yet his feet and hands are warm all the time. I agree with you, maybe some people just don’t need 98.6 to feel great

  7. I remember taking ice baths when I was marathon training. Brrrrrr. No thanks. I’d much rather take a hot shower. And not run 20+ milers anymore either.

  8. Its quite possible that hormetic cold exposure could be beneficial for leaning out and raising body temp, while chronic cold exposure would not be. For example, exercise in small doses produces a hormetic effect of strengthening the body, while exercise in large doses can run the body into the ground.

    So starting the day off with a 5 min cold shower, and then layering on clothes could get the best of both worlds. This would be a great thing to run self-experiments on actually. Want to organize one thru 180D health?

    Also wondering if theres any reason to believe that humans would adapt to chronic cold by upping PUFA tissue concentration? Obviously humans that live in cold climates, like Eskimos, have higher PUFA partially bc they eat the animals that live up there, which have higher PUFA. Is there any research on the adaptation one way or the other?

    Thanks for the though-provoking stuff.

    • I think when Ray Peat pointed out that pig’s body fat changed in response to sweaters he was assuming the same in humans. I would assume the same in humans, as we share a lot of physiological traits to our furless friends.

    • Definitely good to be thinking in terms of short, acute vs. long, chronic. As I know you know, and as you know that I know, the difference between the two is often a mirrored opposite.

  9. I completely agree with this article, but after traveling Thailand in dry season for a month I am so tired of hot! I’m actually missing the cold weather in the Midwest. It makes sense why Asians are generally small, it’s very uncomfortable to be bigger in this climate. The heat also seems to blunt appetite at times. I can’t stomach a huge meal when it’s 90 degrees out.

    • My experiences were similar when I went to the Philippines. Appetite was much lower. I had much more of an inclination to eat fruit as much as possible, and much less fat than I typically find palatable.

    • When I was living in FL I spontaneously lost 60 pounds and my appetite was suppressed all the time. I figure it was the moist heat because I come from CA and where I live its normally hot 3/4 of the year.

      • Is the theory that your body wants less insulation and hence drops the body fat? In how much time did you drop 60 lbs?

        • 6 months. Also, at that time I developed an intense aversion to cold water. It made my stomach in knots. It just hurt.

  10. The goal of cold exposure is about widening the range of temperatures on can feel comfortable with. Being cold is stressful. The way to address that stress is not by hiding from cold, but to meet it head on and train your body to respond in a positive manner.

    • That makes sense to me and I’m open to this. As you sometimes talk about, Matt- short term effects are frequently the opposite of long term effects. It could be that increasing warmth externally through hot showers and extra layers makes our bodies freak out that much worse when exposed to the cold. But who knows?

      Also- you didn’t mention it here, but another argument is that cold exposure may change the ratio of the supposedly more metabolically active brown adipose tissue versus the less active white fat. Maybe this has long term benefits in raising the metabolic rate, in the same way that increasing lean tissue could. I’m not really clear how this brown fat relates to subcutaneous versus ectopic fat, though. Anyone know? Is it the case that more brown fat means less belly fat?

    • Right. Just to play devil’s advocate… being cold is stressful, and encourages the storage of body fat. Being too hot is also a stress, but one the encourages fat loss.

      • Cold air and water promotes blood and oxygen circulation while hot temperature constricts blood flow and puts enormous strain on the heart which promotes stress response in the nervous system . Needless to say cold in reasonable amounts (5 minutes cold shower, 10 minutes exposure to freezing temperatures) produces relaxation with long term stress resistance and is similar to weight lifting in terms of muscle strengthening. There is nothing better than a cold shower after sex or any other stress experience to normalize someone’s physiology and mindset. I have been taking only cold showers for almost 3 years and I firmly believe it. Cold water also protects natural features while hot water strips all the oils from the body. Put it this way, taking cold shower is stressful for a minute or two while making one immune from stress for an entire day and vice versa, taking a hot shower makes one less stressful for a few minutes while making them more prone to stress the rest of the time.
        There is no doubt for me that hot showers and temperature controlled dwelling are the prime causes of most diseases today. Furthermore, you just can’t see hot water in the nature unless in a mineral spring, even in the hot places like mediterrenean , the water tends to be cool.

        That’s not to say that heat is bad but the only good heat may be from chilly peppers/capsaicin and I don’t see you promoting that. Capsaicin is known for all kinds of miraculous doings from curing any disease like psoriasis and cancer to natural blood flow. But capsaicin works on another level and ties up to vanillaoid receptors . Capsaicin makes one hot beyond of what you preach. Capsaicin also makes one far more resilient to the cold and any stress response. Both capsaicin and cold shower act equaly but differently to remove depression and headaches.You are way off on everything and as usual confusing or denying short and long term effects.

  11. For what it’s worth, I find this interesting for two reasons:

    1. I’ve always loved hot showers. I mean just-before-scalding hot, and I like to stay in until I’m comfortable and happy. Out of curiosity I took my temp after a shower once and while I can never seem to get my temp up normally, it was just above the normal 37 C after the shower. The few times I’ve come close to normal temp in the morning, I felt far less drawn to stay in the nice hot shower to soak.

    2. My wife saw a traditional chinese doctor a while back and was told she was a “cold” person and should never under any circumstances drink cold liquids. Sounded kinda hokey to me, but she has since said she feels better when she sticks to warm stuff.

  12. There’s a variety of things at play here but I’m glad you touched on the “heating to run hotter” element. There is plenty of evidence for athletic adaptations to hyperthermic environment (9-14 days, if anyone cares) but the main adaptation is an increase in vasodialation for increased heat removal. I’ve not looked at the evidence but I’m sure there’s an equally long period to downregulate to match more thermal-neutral temperatures with training. So you may be onto something with high heat exposure and increased caloric expenditure throughout the day.

    Totally observational and by no means definitive but the longest lived cultures on Earth are mostly in warm-to-hot climates.

    • Thanks Skyler. Just read one of your articles the other day. Nice to see you here. That’s an interested add-in there about vasodilation and heat dispersal. Hey, even Stefansson reported that Eskimos would climb into a structure, strip down nekkid, and heat it up and sweat whenever they had the chance. Getting really warm seems to no doubt be leaning – from saunas to sunbathing to exercise and hot weather.

  13. Interesting note: my father gets extremely hot to the touch when he takes a shower. Getting in water turns his internal thermostat on high. He says he feels like he is on fire. We think that if he took a hot shower he would spontaneously combust or turn the water to steam.

    So, why does he do that? Why would the application of cold water make him super duper hot?

    • Cold water forces a supercompensation for heat increase, which is the reason it has become popular in recent times. If you want to feel warmer at room temperature, expose yourself to cold and crank up your internal heater…. and vice versa. There is lots of logic on both sides of the hot vs. cold debate.

  14. I’ve just returned from 2 weeks in Japan. I already miss the hot bath I take everyday when I’m in Japan. I feel so much better when I do that!

    • You just like bathing with naked Japanese men. Don’t lie.

  15. I have thought for awhile that cold thermagenics is counterproductive to fat loss. Sure it burns calories but it also trains your body to conserve a layer of fat for insulation.

    Also anytime im feeling cold and food isnt working i will take a very hot shower and it always kicks the body temp up for hours.

    • Swimming in cold pools has been one theory explaining why swimmers typically have a slightly higher body fat percentage compared to other hard-training olympic athletes.

      • I had heard about that. I also had an alternate thought that they retain the fat to help with boyancy.

        • Or they just poison their thyroid glands with too much chlorine.

          • I hate chlorinated water. Does it hold true for river/lake/oceanic swimmers?

          • I don’t know. That would be an interesting research project to compare leanness and metabolic rate between pool swimmers and ocean swimmers.

          • I love swimmer’s bodies– that extra layer of bf makes them look more youthful and attractive than a lot of other athletes, imho.

  16. I’m a follower of Kruse’s work. Lot’s of wrong observations here IMO.

    First, the reason people in colder climates may be heavier, assuming that’s even true, could be a variety of different reasons completely unrelated to cold exposure. Colder climates tend to have less daylight. Less daylight = blunted energy or even SAD. Also, it could be a learned trait. (you know — you’re bundled up during winter, so no one can see you, but when bikini season rolls around, time to get in shape!)

    Cold exposure doesn’t promote subcutaneous fat storage. The observational study that implied that, didn’t account for diet! (It was college swimmers — they probably even had a dinning hall buffet every day)

    Finally, you don’t have to sit in an ice bath. You can rig up an ice vest. There’s also a ‘cool fat burner’ vest out there made for cold thermogenesis. Some members of our forum use it.

    • There’s only one reasonable way to resolve this: let’s set up a 10 round boxing match between Ray “OJ” Peat and Jack “Carnival” Kruse. Winner take all.

      • Yep. A bunch of loonie followers is always hard to gather..

      • Jack “Carnival” Kruse. The skin temperature of my face just went up a degree from laughter. Although “Sugar” Ray Peat might have been a better boxing name for him.

        • Glad that somebody got my admittedly lame allusion to the Carnival Cruise incident. Or at least I am hoping you did. I agree “Sugar Ray” is a better name.

    • Wouldn’t ALL college athletes be eating that way including the beach volleyball players and runners?

    • quote: “Colder climates tend to have less daylight. Less daylight = blunted energy or even SAD.”

      I come from a cold climate. I live in the mountains, where we get the same hours of daylight as the desert a few hours away.

    • The heaviest people in the world live in the tropical pacific islands. Matt Stone doesn’t say it but he knows it. Why do people living in the tropics get fat? Because they don’t exude effort to get food and because the laid back lifestyle makes them overactive in
      the response to any kind of stress.

      Cold in reasonable amounts promotes muscle synthesis, not fat. People get fat in the winter because they live sheltered life and don’t expose themselves to the cold and because of far more holydays which encourage gorging oneself and sitting around.

      • Also the Nordic folks from a cold climate also tend to be lean as in that ectomorphic body type. I have this body type. Is it possible that this may be a BAT type of fat thing? A lot of these folk move to the mountains because they prefer the cooler climate.

        Thomas, I got your cruise reference. I’d rather an OJ from Sugar Ray than the word salad served on that Cruise, lest I get food poisoning.

      • I have often wondered if holiday weight gain is really connected to eating more at those times. Christmas especially is a very frantic and stressful time of year.

  17. Matt,

    If I understand you correctly, my move from New York to super hot Phoenix, AZ may actually help me lean out? I guess the trick to that would be not hiding in my air-conditioned apartment during the summer months but get out and stay out in the hot outdoors huh? BTW, love this article much..ha!!

    • Yeah, doesn’t work if you sit in an air-conditioned room all day, like most Phoenicians.

      • Thanks Matt. Yeah, this summer I’m definietly going to brave the heat and get out and do some stuff like hiking on the desert trails, even hangout in the sun by the pool, etc.

        • When I was obsessed with being thin, keeping temperatures high and staying warm was part of the formula that I used. I eschewed air conditioning unless it was unbearable (above 90 is when I break). I never purposely physically exerted myself in the heat. I have found that physical exertion in the heat just wears me out and I wind up avoiding all movement. In fact with higher temperatures, I would sleep more. In the heat, I would try to do cooling workouts like swimming actually.

          • I’ve thought for a long time that air conditioning is one ingredient of the obesity epidemic. In my office, it’s kept at arctic temperatures during the summer so you need to keep on space heaters and wear fleeces and things to stay warm. Not healthy for one, and I’m sure it probably does induce fat gain to maintain warmth!

  18. Regarding heat and subsequent fat loss. Do you think it is purely about appetite regulation, or do you think things like water restriction actually make fat loss easier? Would be an interesting experiment for you Matt:
    Take a bunch of people with a damaged metabolism, let some of them consume a whole lot of water and eat a fixed number of calories. Let the other group eat the same number of calories, but really restrict their water intake, with no other variables. And see if one group loses more fat than the other.

  19. Where do menopausal hot flashes fit in here? I always figure the body knows what it is doing, so wouldn’t it be interesting to find out if women who go with the flow and allow the flashes are less prone to sluggish metabolism than women who take hormone replacement therapy?

    Oh and I hate to split hairs, but Eskimo is not the correct term, the people of the far north are the Inuit.

    • I know that, but most people aren’t familiar with the term “Inuit.”

      • Well, that’s not true either. Eskimo is the more broader term while Inuit is a subset. Kind of like how not all Asians are Chinese, but they make up a large percentage.

        • Ah, didn’t see it that way. Here in Canada it’s considered a racial slur.

          • Hey Inuits, sensitive much?

          • Oh lordy Matt, it’s not just the Inuit, it’s the whole country!

          • Just trying to throw in another “much?” Going for a record today.

      • I’d be interested to know if you’re got any theories on those hot flashes Matt. Especially as they seem to be triggered by being chilly. I found they got easier to handle when I upped my salt intake. Thoughts?

        • I would assume it has something to do with being in a temporary stressed state. So I guess it would make sense that a de-stressing substance like salt could help if used appropriately. No major theories though. Someday!

          • All right, but thanks to you I got over some nasty insomnia with night sweats – ice cream with salt as a bedtime snack? oh. yeah. I am forever in your debt, sir.

          • Oh good. I’m glad you are in my debt. That’s why I did this whole health website in the first place. I’m creating a slave army to take over the world.

          • I got a good chuckle out of that…bunch of stress intolerant, high-calorie consuming, chubby (in my case) soldiers. Worst.Army.Ever

            Personally I like warm/hot showers with a “cool” phase in the middle. Not COLD, just pleasantly cool.

  20. Oh, and another question I wanted to ask you, sorry it’s not really related to the topic at hand. Do you think that when you are generally fatigued in a warm state, and energetic in a cold state, this indicates your body needs rest, and will eventually be energetic in a warm state again?

  21. Some people in a low metabolic state become anemic due to lowered blood cell production. A study was performed on cats demonstrating that warmer body temperatures increased blood cell production rates. The marrow in cat tail bones does not normally show much hematopoieses because those bones are too far from the body’s core and thus too cold. When the cats’ tails were artificially strapped to their abdomens, the tails warmed and blood cell production skyrocketed. This affected both red and white blood cell formation.

    Over the past few years I went through a low-metabolic state along with anemia and lymphocytopenia. I tried the cold shower method and it never worked to raise my temperature. When I forced myself into a warm state through showers, clothes, and actually eating, my temperature rose and the blood counts significantly improved. Good blood is yet another effect of being warm!

    • I just want to know who had the balls to strap the tails to the cats. Were they wearing chain mail or were these declawed cats?

  22. I couldn’t find the link to the cat study, but here’s another from “mainstream medicine” showing increased WBC in mice following an increase in core temperature:

    This is another reason fever can be beneficial. Not only does fever expose bacteria to a temperature beyond their preferred growth range, but it also increases our blood cell production so as to better fight off the infection.

    • This is why one of my “proven” tricks for when I get sick is to take a tablet of niacin and let the little buggers “burn” off with the flush. Boy, is it uncomfortable during, but after I usually feel great (sometimes sitting in a bath helps too).

  23. I’ve been following some of the 180D guidelines for probably about 6 months now. For a while I didn’t notice any change in body temperatures in the morning. In fact, I still hover consistently around 97.7 every morning. The only times I’ve noticed my body temperature change significantly are when:

    A) I just got out of a hot shower, which has increased my temp by an entire degree for at least 30 minutes.
    B) I take at least a 10 minute leisurely walk, which will also increase my body temps by about a degree for anywhere from 30 minutes up to however long I walked.
    C) After I play a soccer game, which I play every Sunday. This one requires some jogging, some walking, and some full on sprinting, though none of it seems like exercise because I love playing soccer. After a good soccer game my temperature will increase up to 1.5 degrees, or around 99 degrees, and it will linger all day before slowly dropping back down over a period of 3-4 days to the normal 97.7 that seems to be my set point.

    This is just my experience that I’ve tracked over the past several months. I’ve never tried the cold water bath, though I’ve heard of it, because it sounds like it would feel terrible. If there is one thing 180D has taught me, is don’t do things that feel terrible because our bodies are not designed to try and kill themselves.

  24. Would any of this explain why when it is cold here in Texas I do not hold onto water weight but the moment it is warm and humid my left foot swells near the base of my toes. I need more help in understanding the science of water weight on the body related to food and air temperature.

    • I think most people would notice more water retention in cold temps than in high temps.

      • Well am I the weird one? I equate it to being pregnant and hot and swollen feet. Does warmth/ humidity cause circulation problems? Bum, I was hoping you give me some awesome scientific explanation :)

        • Crystal, you’re not the only one, my feet swell in hot humid weather too.

        • I get extra puffy on hot, humid days. You’re not alone. And it’s very confusing, I must figure it out!

        • I thought it was common knowledge that hot, humid weather will cause water retention in the lower extremities. Traveling to the Caribbean I’ve seen this a number of times.

  25. I don’t know your thoughts on a hydro flush but I LOVE love love going to the natural hot springs we have on the river and then sit in the icy water flowing right next to the springs for 3 minutes or so. I don’t feel cold. It is very meditative and moves the lymph around in my body and clears out my mind. Then I jump back into the natural hot springs. Talk about a natural buzz : ) Any thoughts on the hydro flush?

  26. I’ve never posted here before, but you all seem so knowledgeable – especially the incomparable Matt Stone himself, of course – that I wondered if while I’m gearing up the courage to stop restricting, eat and defrost from this deep, deep freeze I’ve been in for some years now, anyone has any ideas on why I’ve also got constant ice-cold nose, knees and kidney area, on top of the usual deathlike hands and feet. The iceblock encasing my kidneys is particularly distressing. In fact, when I read the opening few sentences in the post above, just the thought of plunging into freezing water nigh-on gave me heart failure – although the way I am mostly, sub-zero dousing might even feel pleasantly warm in comparison, who knows? By the way, I mentioned gearing up the courage to eat for heat: has anyone else found it’s a massive step to contemplate after long-term undereating? I’d really appreciate any of your thoughts: this is one of the very few diet/nutrition/body/health/weight/and whatever sites I’ve ever come across where sweet sanity actually rules.

    • I let go of my need to undereat when I discovered that I lost weight better when eating plenty of fats, enough carbs, and just some protein. I didn’t lose when undereating. My body came to a screeching halt and just got colder and colder. I discovered that if I ate most of my calories before 2 pm, got plenty of oils (coconut, real butter, olive oil, walnut oil.) that even though I was eating a lot of carbs and calories I was warm and losing weight anyway. I stopped losing weight when I over did the cardio (more than 90 min. didn’t work.) Conversely, yoga did help with body temp. But, be careful, you might want a warm shower first to avoid snapping an ice cold ligament.

      I’m sure that Matt might be able to offer more or even different advice, this is just what I have found to work best. That said, I’m not skinny. However, I am native and in my family we have several 600 lb women. I am slender in comparison. I guess everything is relative. Pun intended ;)

      • Alisha,
        Do you mean 90 minutes of cardio a day. I’ve been taking dance classes twice a week and walking an hour once a week.
        Even though I eat a lot, I do have days when I’m really cold. Can’t figure it out

        • I mean at most 90 minutes per day. I prefer the 45 minute range. but, do what feels good, I just don’t recommend more than 90 minutes. I had always heard thats the cut off for cortisol, thats when you start producing it. I had also heard from long distance/endurance athletes that they don’t lose weight from their endurance activities, but rather from shorter, slightly more intense workouts.

    • I found it to be a massive step after having tried, for years (including during pregnancy and breastfeeding!) of only eating just barely enough but not too much, and having my weight top out at 250. (I’m 5 foot 7 but that’s still too much for me.) Some of the weight came off when my youngest weaned but I was even running 6-9 miles a week and the scale was not budging. When I started RRARFing about 1 1/2 months ago, it took quite a few weeks but now my feet and hands are typically toasty warm. It has made a HUGE difference. At first I didn’t have an appetite, AT ALL. I realized that I was never hungry because I’d probably broken my hunger cues. I’d go from not hungry to completely nauseated and that’s when I knew I needed to eat. Now I actually feel hungry which is very different for me! I am also warm most of the day. I do have times where I crash and start getting cold but that’s a cue to eat more. Those times are getting shorter and less often. I’m not weighing in but out of curiosity I did one day and couldn’t believe that I hadn’t gained at all and possibly lost a bit. But to answer your question, it did feel like a massive step. And I did feel really tired and had a headache and felt really slow during the process. It’s been very gradual but there is a slight spring in my step now. Sometimes my temp hovers close to 99! (Hope I can join the Hot Girls Club while in my 40’s!) My sleep and body aches are still not fixed but those problems have been very chronic and long-standing, so I’m not expecting them to disappear overnight. I think I’m on the right track though! Good luck, I wish Matt had a forum here but until he decides to do this, chatting in his comments will have to do!

      • Crud, my grammar sucks today! Sorry if this was hard to follow. Maybe I need more food! ;)

  27. I’m the odd one out here. I prefer the cold and hate hot weather. Given the choice in winter of hiking another 5 -10 kms or swimming across an icy stream, I will take the latter. In the mountains, the people from the city come up here in parkers when we are in t-shirts. I haven’t noticed any correlation over which people are the fatter, the city folk or us.

    I enjoy hot drinks, but usually have to peel a layer off as they really heat me up. I also wake up to throw a blanket off, even in winter as I am too hot. I even prefer to fall asleep on the cool side and sleep badly if I am too hot. I am currently rejoicing at the weather turning cool at night here and look forward to better sleep.

  28. So relieved to read this – there are few things I enjoy less than being cold, so inflicting it on myself would just feel plain wrong!

  29. Matt, dude, I’ve just been reading that Steve Richfield site. To quote Spiderman after he faced Sandman, “Where do these people come from” and how do you find them? He has some interesting ideas, but that place is weird, not only the approach but all that HTML with NO CSS. So 1995. I expect he uses the Blink element in there somewhere.

    Now I’ve know there are people here who also have read that site and I’ve got to ask them to please be careful with his suggestions of taking 5 mcg of T3. Please! Please! Please!

    • I agree, Thomas, that he has some really interesting ideas that I’m going to play around with in my head. But for practicality’s sake one needs to take a large grain of salt with his info. Popping thyroid meds and downing espresso to regulate his adrenals, yikes!

      • What do you make of the fact that he attributes lower temps to a trauma, such as the removal of tonsils? I don’t get why he thinks the body would lower temperatures due to a tonsillectomy. Interested in knowing, because I had my tonsils removed when I was 6 y.o.

        • I took that to mean the trauma exerted from the general anesthesia during the tonsillectomy. It down regulates a lot of processes, including metabolism, of which your body doesn’t understand why that happened, and stresses out, or so it seems from his perspective.

          This, too, might explain my lifetime of low temperatures. I had several surgeries between 3-5 and the last at 11 for ear problems. My mom suspected that I had something like Wilson’s Thyroid since my “normal” temp from middle school through college was 96.8F. We never went anywhere with the diagnoses, however, and I hadn’t had a normal temperature until discovering Matt.

          I know that my parents have had a bad history of “going under” and have explained the situation to the doctors before, but to no avail. They seem to “burn” through the anesthesia faster than expected and have woken up in the middle of procedures, sometimes fully, and other times still paralyzed. Super scary! I’ve always assumed that their metabolisms went into hyper drive.

        • Tonsils removed at that age here too. I think any physical or emotional trauma can result in sort of a permanent stress imprint. Waking the Tiger by Peter Levine offers some fairly interesting perspectives on this kind of thing.

          • So, a very stressful childhood is enough to mess up your
            metabolism for life?

          • I haven’t read ‘Walking the Tiger,’ but I’m guessing permanent stress imprint doesn’t mean messed up metabolism for life. Probably more like, this is just a sensitive spot that you have to be mindful to shore up the defenses of, rather than you being destined for failure.

            Like if you have a history of sprained ankles, it doesn’t mean every time you run you’ll sprain it, but that you might have to pay more attention to your form and terrain than the average person to prevent recurrences.

          • No, but according to Levine you store that memory and it effects your physiology until you practice some form of trauma release, which animals supposedly naturally do but humans, removed from our instincts as we are, often do not. Perhaps a link here between those who internalize stress vs. those that have big tantrums and outbursts to release it.

          • Aha, thanks. This might be interesting.
            I would feel like an idiot making a scene. My mind
            has always said, childhood happened, suck it up, move on.

          • I used to know some hippies who would all get in a circle and just scream. Sometimes they would yell words like “hate!” or “no!”

            It was scary, plus they were all still fucked up.

          • Tierney, LOL!

            That would be my fear too. Acting like an idiot,
            with no positive outcomes. It would just add
            stress to my ego for being so stupid. :)

            However, I don’t have an emotional attachment
            with my childhood memories. My brain did me the
            big favor of disassociation. So, while I have the
            memories, they seem more like a bad movie I watched. I haven’t a clue how to release the stress
            of something I don’t feel.

          • I wonder what Tierney means by “they were all still fucked up.” Does that mean they didn’t go put on a suit and get 9-5 jobs? Maybe it would have been less “fucked up” if they had gone and paid a shrink 200 dollars/hour.

            I have no idea if that method works (and by “works” I mean they are able to reduce trauma…by “works” I don’t mean that they traded in their tie-dyes for a Gucci suit and got on with the “normal” lifestyle of consumption) but it certainly derives from the interesting idea of Wilhelm Reich that physical/psychological trauma gets locked into our body (armouring) that is to be released not exclusively through “talk therapy” but also through movement, etc. There is a school of psychotherapy that employs screaming, called “Primal Therapy” (developed by Janov). I remember that “Hippie” John Lennon went through it. I believe his “Hippie” girlfriend Yoko Ono went through it, too. He claimed it did him a lot of good. I am not claiming that it did any good, but it certainly sounds like a worthwhile experiment.

          • A little context Thomas- they weren’t like out in nature somewhere, but at home with their kids. Freaky.

          • This is what homeopathy is all about, too (though achieved a different way) – correcting past traumas (emotional/physical/medical) and restoring proper balance.

          • Very interesting. The first time I took a homeopathic was right before my thyroid freaked out. It corrected itself within 6 months, but it took me a while to realize that the two might be related.

            Now I’m wondering if being a preemie contributed towards some weight issues that I had (sister and I were in the hospital for a while- even my mom said that she feels we were very stressed as babies), and that the combination of working through food and weight issues during my pregnancy and the homeopathic helped balance me out? Every day I learn some new possibility :)

  30. That seal photo is hilarious. I’m going to send it to anyone who thinks about taking an ice bath to lose weight!

    • I think Richard Nikoley said it best when he likened a cold water bath to “exercise.” People would probably get far more fat loss out of a 30-minute brisk walk every day than a 30-minute ice bath – and not be sending the “must store more fat” signal to the body.

  31. “Spend more time being moderately active – triggering what’s called “Non-exercise activity thermogenesis” or NEAT. Even just raising your heart beat a couple dozen beats a minute is enough to get most people’s body temperature soaring into the 99′s.”

    What is your definition of moderate exercise here? Like, daily life walking.. Going for a brisk walk.. ?

    • Could be anything. My heart rate jumps up 20-30 beats a minute just standing and cooking, doing house chores, and other things. So I mean really little things here. Even just fidgeting is considered a form of NEAT. Overall that would just mean less sitting and lying down – more time doing stuff.

      • This makes sense, thanks for the clarification. I’m new to the 180-degree way of thinking, so when I hear moderate exercise: I hear hoofin’ it at the gym. I think modern day people neglect the importance of just being active in every day life. In fact, I think living a generally-active lifestyle probably overshadows time spent in the gym…. particularly if you’re prone to overdoing it.

      • This is a little relieving. I’ve been playing with the heart rate monitor and I thought that 20-30 beat jump was just a reflection of being out of shape. I was at 110-115 while folding towels, thinking that couldn’t be normal. Good to know.

        • That sounds about right, and about where I’m at if I’m walking at a medium-fast pace on flat ground.

  32. When I first started reading the article I could think about was Ray Peat talking about the pigs eating coconut oil (or am I wrong) and being wrapped in blankets and how they became very lean. Matt, this information is so awesome, and I freakin love reading your stuff when I get the chances to. and I try not to obsess about it either! haha. I even remember a podcast with Ray Peat and he talks about how having cold feet can exacerbate stress and what not and wearing warm socks all the time is destressing. Makes a lot of sense. But the cold feet happened because of stress in the first place, so artificially helping the body with the socks makes that much more sense. Idk, but all I can say, is that I gained, and got silly this winter, and now I’m eating cleaner, and I bet that if I can stay as stress free as I can, eat good quality stuff and a lot of it, with the heat coming on, I should start to look better than I ever have in my life =) and if not…well FUCK hahahaha. But I still feel better eating how you and Chief have taught me no matter what! Matt Stone, dis nigga saves lives. I’m subscribed to Matt Stonies channel now hahahaha. I watched him eat this giant bowl of Ben and Jerry’s a couple days ago. 14,000 calories in 7 minutes LOL.

  33. I don’t have enough time to read all of the comments and stuff and I apologize if someone already mentioned this. But what about prolonged heat exposure, I mean, it lowers our metabolism doesn’t it? Or is there a difference between having a healthy metabolism with a naturally lower temperature, and a crappier metabolism with a lower temperature as a result of that. I know that Ray Peat said people towards the equator have higher metabolisms than us, even they they should be cooler because of the heat all of the time, but they’re still higher because of the whole pufa situation. Peeps down there have less pufas, I guess especially places like the Philippines, lol I don’t know =P

  34. This is related to your “adrenal” post and “diet recovery ” posts:

    I’m half afraid to start reading your site and risk becoming obsessesed :) I tend to flock to things and suddenly read them and think their golden and get obsessesed with it…yet you seem to make a LOT of sense…
    I’m 31 and stuggling with (I believe)
    – underweight (5 feet 2, 85 lbs or less, zero energy, depressed and unmotivated, KNOW I need to do yoga for help with mind and digestion but when my guts are so cramped…I fail to do anything). Just walking up stairs is a big big chore. Going to see yet another doc soon , yet have zero hope. Amennorheic for a long time now. I think my adrenals are shot, maybe my hormones, thyroid, guts are RUINED..why ? because though I was never anxorecic, I have been orthorexia (and still am) and binge eat every night on “safe” foods and DO NOT purge or exercise it off. Highly consstipated or bowel movements reveal just shrimp sized stools with gassy puff on them..NEVER fully eliminated.
    So NOW my guts are SO so tortured and my age is older and hormones and metabolsim messed, so I fear I’ve “gone too far” and can’t just “eat whatever I want”, or get back on track. I don’t have money for fancy docs, supplements, massages, etc and have NO idea what to do….book to read? MEAL PLAN? please? I HONESTLY feel I need a “reset cleanse/detox” on my body before I can ever do anything else (since I binge, constipated, and my intestines are in spasms ALL the time)…I am lost :( Truly 100 percent lost. Honestly, I would be in forever gratitude if you can point me to a meal plan…I know i know people say to eat “intituively” but I have let them GO TOO FAR and its too late my age and my intestines and guts ruined from the binging + orthorexia…well…
    I need a “cleanse” or reset…smoothies, something SIMPLE and easy and not complicated…I need to heal so I can QUICKKLY escape this brain fog and dead dead dead fatigue…if I’m not careful docs are gonna force me into a hospital and feel my forcefully on oatmeal and crap crap crap …and at my age I fear the havoc that will reap on my body and mind….

    • I would do your best to eat lots of warming, calorie-dense, and palatable foods right now and get that weight up well over 100 pounds. By them some of these problems will start to lessen and you’ll start relaxing about this a little bit with less anxiety and fear. If you need to know what to eat, ask a dozen or so people what their favorite foods are. You should get some good menu options off of that list.

      • Tapioca with cream and honey should be very easy to digest. mmmmm

    • Tonight I had fried rice, plantains and some crazy rice pudding made with raw cane sugar and coconut and it was divine. I’m laying in bed with the windows open and no blankies!

      If I were you, I’d try my best not to look at all your health issues at once. That can be hella overwhelming and can lead to feelings of hopelessness which will do nothing but tie your intestines up further. Like Matt said, concentrate on eating warming, calorie dense foods. Just tell yourself that that is your job now. Don’t fret about all the other stuff. When you inevitably do begin to freak, just remind yourself that you gotta do things in steps, and by NOT worrying about every little thing wrong with you, you’re actually attending to it in the best way possible. That’s my two cents.

      • Warming foods? Sounds to me like mmost still approach it in a restrictive manner..”safe” food or paleo foods or beofre “x” time…

        I’m opposite…my years of binging (not purging) on my safe foods very late at night, forcing in foods (grains, diary, fats, ALL inclusive) during day rigidly have wrecked wreced my digestion. I truly eel I I need a “reset” to flush or cleanse out my liver and all that stuff…nothing sits right, constant rib “stitches” and perpetual constipation or shrimp-sized ..maybe get a 1/4 eliminated…I’m way too old for this and discouraged. No exercise either other than SLOW walks.

        • Reader, if you are 85 pounds or less, I believe you’ve already given yourself the “flush” you’re thinking will make you better.

          Don’t start getting afraid, thinking of binging and overfeeding, that’s not what you need to do. If you are seriously underweight and having major digestive issues, you just need to eat as much as you are comfortable with. Getting comfortable with that might require some help outside yourself. Do you have a support system you can access? Therapy, family, friends?

          31 is not old and you are not ruined. You can get better. But I think it sounds like you need to seek some help outside yourself. Sometimes it’s hard to know what’s best when there are a million compulsions and fears flying ’round your head.

          • Yes, I was thinking the same thing. I could never have recovered from my ED without therapy, a good nutritionist and a support system. Do not be afraid to enlist (good) outside help.

      • Julia, your comments never fail to make me smile!
        I love it, blankies.
        That is so true, you begin to freak. I did because of the “insidious” weight gain (+150 g carbs). But it all works out in the end.

    • Reader,

      You have read Matt’s Diet Recovery post. Let go of fear and, eat.

      Who cares if you eat some crap foods? Look what all that healthy food
      has done for you. Matt’s ideas gave me back my life. My colon can’t handle
      a ton of veggies and, fruits. It shuts down my colon and, thyroid.

      To quickly calm your colon, eat plenty of white rice. Add lots of warming foods
      to the white rice. Saturated fat, sugar, salt, etc… If dairy is tolerated make a
      rice pudding with heavy cream, butter, sugar, & vanilla. If not, try coconut milk, and, oil instead. Keep plenty of this in the fridge to keep a steady in flow of calories.

      I recommend leaving all the greens/veggies alone for a short time. They require
      a lot of energy to digest. Once you are doing better, add them back in small

      In the beginning I had to force myself to eat. There were times tears would
      drop out of my eyes as I put food in my mouth. I was so nauseated it was
      painful to think about food. But, I did.

      You will feel better soon. Too, in a few months you won’t believe the
      difference. ETF!

      I am happy you found Matt!

      • Hi Reader,

        I’m sorry to hear how you’re feeling. It’s a scary place to be. I was there once too, and I can really relate to your post… especially digestion. Well, that was almost 2 years ago now that I left that ill-health behind. I want to let you know that it is possible to heal. What you need to do forst and foremost is give your body the nourishment it needs to function healthily. Just like the posts above, focus on eating as much as you want of the foods you like. Even if they are in your mind something you “should” not be eating. Chances are that is only your perception, and those foods that seem most yummy yo you are the ones that will help you heal. Focus on “letting go” and having what you want. By doing so, you’ve got nothing to lose but everything to gain. You body is wise. I can attest, I went from a very sick state, underweight, depressed, no energy, horrible digestion, anxiety, to healthy, happy and thriving. Tons of energy, no anxietyy or depression. Nothing will help digestion more than getting adequate amounts *** of food. Restriction causes tons of distress in the bowels. You might feel anxiety when starting to eat again, it is normal and will subside. It is possible!

        • thanks…but can’ you read my comment above though? I’m old and my digestion is WRECKED WRECKED…my liver, bacterial flora, colon everything…I never purged, but binged and still do constantly and just sleep or walk slow and short….brain fog, etc…and “nothing” appeals to me …I eat by my ocd-ness only…i eat forced even when sick…i eat grains and fats and crappy dairy ,etc…i wasn’t like u guys…i’m still lost :(

          • You’re 31.If that’s too late to turn things around, a lot of us are screwed!

      • This is great advice to let go of fear.

        I started eating the food about 6 weeks ago and it is changing my life. I come from a background of mental problems, anxiety, exhaustion, lots of dieting/orthorexia. I did super healthy low-carb WAPF-ish paleo for years, then did intuitive UNDER-eating and had tons of chronic stress. I really jacked my hormones, thyroid (lowered) and adrenals (high then crashing cortisol) . I could not start my period and had WEEKLY PMS after weaning my last baby and had to take natural progesterone to have a cycle. (I am getting help from Julia Ross’ clinic too).

        After reading lots from Matt’s site, Your Eatopia, Go Kaleo, Linda Bacon ect….I quit trying to be thin and starting eating a lot. I credit blender batter waffles drenched in pastured butter and potatoes with tons of butter and salt for getting me here. Think comfort foods–I just had some meatloaf with ketchup and the potatoes.

        In the first month my cycle went from 33 days to 29 days. My sex drive went up and I started having energy and better moods. GO CARBS! I have gained 10-15 curvy womanly pounds and I DON’T CARE!!! I am never going back to the hell of hormone imbalance and eating only meat, veg and coconut oil! I feel like I am in those times in high school when I was active, happy, curvy, and ate lots of ice cream. I feel FUN again. My husband is happy too.

        I came to realize I did not even look pretty being thinner (even though I was in “normal” range BMI). I was all puffy, pale, and sad. I People have actually asked me if I lost weight but I think it is because I look better. I am excited to see how much progress I make in the next few months and see if my thyroid numbers go up naturally. (I am still working on sleeping more too.) THANK YOU MATT!

        • Congrats to you…but if you read my responses to other readers above, etc…Im so different….binging, never was paleo, ruined digestion to the point that I fear no return….I have no willpower (hence midnight eating tub of crap yogurt, tons of fruit, 1/2 jar nut butter, chocolate, a box of rice crackers, etc)…I don’t have “comfort foods” and I defnitley don’t have the money or patience or know-how to cook (or acces to anything hormone-free etc)…

          I’m wrecked internally, in the guts, i’m sure my colon and liver are polluted, brain fog, nauseous sometimes, slow slow slow “out of it”, not exercising ever, never purge…i need a RESET actual “plan”…I amm so sick of ithis and at my age fear screwing up my hormones and metabolism and thryroid WORse..

          • In all honesty, you don’t sound that different to where a lot of us began when we found Matt’s thinking (except for being younger then most). Lacking willpower is a good thing when recovering from an eating disorder, so don’t be so hard on yourself. A good RRARF will reset you body and will help your body find balance again. Just remember that the most effective detox is a big poop.

          • Well…how can I “poop”? PLEASE…remember: I’m not exercising, I’m constipated and I don’t purge or anything. I literally feel like my body is full of “toxins” you know?
            I binged again tonight (about 1000 cals) late late night) on fruit, nut butter, crackers and hummus, chocolate, artificial yogurt, crackers etc etc…is this okay? I’m not able to poop out anything beyond a couple stubs…its like all the toxins are being reasbsorbed into the body and the reason I am so brain fogged, exhausted, can’t exercise or concentrate, etc…I’ve been low weight like this before too (I’m short too remember and naturally very thin boned) and never so energyless…I feel so ashamed of myself. I want someone to say it is “okay” to eat a ton at night and to eat commercial, crap food…I just fear they won’t say that….therapy has been useless for me…its not gonna happen.

          • I think it is ok to eat how you want to eat if it works for your body, the question is whether late night binges are metabolically stimulating enough for you to recover your health. If I were recovering from such serious digestive problems I would go for food that was processed and easy to digest. Like french toast for breakfast, a hamburger with fries for lunch and pizza for dinner. I would limit the nut butters, fruit, and high fiber food until my digestion was normal. Personally, I try to eat as much food as possible early in the day to limit my appetite in the evenings since it will keep me up to eat a lot at night. Oh and 1000 calories in one sitting is not that many. Check out this article: Your eatopia has a lot of resources that will be helpful.

      • Hey, thanks…but just read my comment above….again

        I don’t have organic and hormone free….and you all still stick to “good ” foods “coconut cream, this and that…no just generic yogurt and crap cereal and chocolate, etc?

        haven’t read the books…can’t afford yet :(

        • The books are cheap. I’m definitely not saying they’re a cure-all, and I really believe that you sound like you could use professional help, but the books here are a starting off point for sure.

          • Like, is it okay then to do what I said in my comment just above? I’m not exercising or pooping right at ALL…and eating a TON of cals on commercial crap very late at night…
            even stuff I donn’t want…its like I look forward to it..its confusing…what does the book tell you exactly?
            I like Gwyneht’s site says its normal…but seems like here and other places KNOW this is not exactly the right way to gain…eat a lot sure..but in this fashion…oh me nerves….

          • When I was recovering from my ED, the rules I was given by my nutritionist were to eat 3 solid, balanced meals/day and 1-2 snacks no matter what. I could binge on top of that, fine. But then I was to get up the next morning and eat a proper breakfast, even if I still felt full from the binge. And so on.

            It’s uncomfortable at first, but eventually things even out and you move to a schedule of eating 3 solid meals with 1-2 snacks only, because the urge to binge goes away. Make sure the 3 meals are real food and enough calories (like 2,500/day). No rabbit food. As someone said above, easily digestible food is your friend.

          • And you will eventually poop normally when you do this. Just give it time. But if you’re concerned, an ED specialist would be a good person to discuss it with.

          • Oops and one more thing. Make sure the dairy you are eating is full-fat. You’ve said you eat greek yogurt. Make sure it’s full-fat. No low-fat or low-sugar anything.

    • Ice cream. Lots of ice cream. It’s super digestible and caloric, and delicious. Haagen-daz is the best, IMO.

      Also, when I was recovering, I would eat butter mixed up with brown sugar – a homemade buttercream icing essentially. It sounds horrible to most people who are healthy, but back then it was amazing. And it is pretty easy on the stomach if you can take dairy. Just make sure you’re eating some proper stuff, too, to get in enough nutrients.

      You may also want to check out A lot of people here follow it and it’s targeted at people with all sorts of eating disorders like orthorexia (not only anorexia and bulimia).

      • Nothing tastes better than Haagen Daz, imo. I just wish they would use organic milk so that I could be sure of no rBGH, and also know that I’m not supporting factory “farming” of dairy cows. All the organic ice creams I see have gums, and just don’t taste as good as HD.

        • Regarding the organic thing, it CAN lead to orthorexia if you let it dominate your life. I simply choose organic over non-organic when it makes sense for me to do so. Raw (organic grass fed) milk, for example, is a biggie for me, and part of it is an ethical concern.

          Animals give us SO much, and the ones used for meat give up 3/4 of their lives to feed us. The least we can do is treat them with compassion and give them good lives outside, in the sun with other animals to socialize with. You know, like an actual farm.

          Torturing animals is a sociopathic behavior. Watch some videos about factory “farming” if you’re unclear on whether factory farming is torturing animals. It is. So whenever possible, I choose products that don’t give money to the industrial “farming” industry. Hence my frustration that there is no organic equivalent to Haagen Dazs.

          • Cameron, there is an organic equivalent to Haagen-Dagz. I’ve mentioned them before:

            Three Twins Ice-Cream.
            Mission Hill Ice Scream (from Tierney’s favorite place, Santa Cruz).

            All three of those are California ice-cream (don’t know where you live) but I know the first two have some distribution in the rest of the U.S. (don’t now if Mission Hill does). They are all organic and don’t use junk like gums and carageenan.

          • Seriously?! I can’t find non-gum organic ice cream anywhere near me! Need to find some NYC stores that carry one of these. Thanks for the names.

          • Thanks for your post, Thomas. I’m sort of near Olympia, WA, and I haven’t seen those brands at my local co-ops, but I will ask them both to stock them.

            Alden’s and Julie’s are the two brands they both tend to favor, and both use gums. Plus, they just don’t have that haagen dazs taste.

            Hopefully I can get one of them to carry one of those brands.

            Thanks for the info!

          • Cameron, I did a check for you. There is a co-op in Yelm that stocks Strauss Ice Cream and Three Twins. Check it out if it’s near enough for you.

            Yelm Coop
            308 Yelm Ave E
            Yelm, WA 98597

          • And Amy, I see that there are a number of places that sell Three Twins in Lower Manhattan. I think you mentioned that you live in NYC. Maybe I got that wrong.

          • Haven’t seen Three Twins in NYC (though I haven’t looked especially hard), but I confirm that when I tried some out west a year and a half ago, it was delicious.

            Might poke around and try to find it in the city. Usually I just go for Turkey Hill Natural. Not organic, but I contacted them and they say their farmers are asked not to use rBGH (though it’s a honor system and no one tests). That was a year or two ago, but as far as I know it still applies.

          • Thanks Thomas. Yup, NYC. I’ll try to scout some out – looks like there’s a healthfood store near my office that carries it.

          • Thanks Thomas, that’s so cool! I’ve been there before, and only seen Aldens, but I will make sure to ask for Straus and Three Twins.

            Much appreciated!

          • Oh please! Not all “factory farms” are the same. The vapid, ill intentioned animal rightists and various other likewise evil* (I am not using hyperbole, I really do believe they are evil) organizations take videos and pictures of the worst of the worst of factory farms and then spread the lie that they are all the same. I know first hand that they are not! NOT AT ALL! But people want to believe they are all the same –oh-so-cruel and so unhealthy… oh and bad for the environment!– because this plays well into the hackneyed hand wringing this culture engages in.

            I do not claim that even the best managed and humane of factory farms are the way to go, however. There are indeed other ways that are more in tune with nature and kinder to the animals. Joel Salatin –whom I have a lot of respect for despite his tendency to stretch the truth– and his methods come to mind, and even various hybrid approaches, which I actually favor because they are more in line with the reality of feeding a hungry world.

            *They are evil because they willing to lie and misrepresent to promote their agenda and do not care if their agenda costs human lives. They are zealots of the worst sort!

          • It’s kind of hard to respond to your post, since the first and second paragraphs seem to be written by two different minds. I do think Salatin and others like him are showing us the way out of the institutionalized cruelty of the current paradigm, so I’ll just address your first/last paragraph.

            There is a mountain of evidence that the vast majority of “factory farms” are massively disconnected from nature at best, and are insanely cruel at worst. I know that there are plenty of factory farms that are relatively humane, but the animals still live their lives in cages, are fed a diet of soy and corn, and they never see sunshine, grass or dirt.

            Check out this lady who seems quite pleased with her indoor, tiny pen hog barns:
            Maybe you think that is just fine and dandy, but to me that is an inhumane way to raise an animal, and it is something I don’t want to support with my purchases. Besides, that is the GOOD end of the spectrum. It gets much worse from there, as I’m sure you know.

            I also know that there are plenty of medium-sized dairy farms where the cows have decent living conditions. Dairy farmers know that well-treated cows produce more milk. However, if they are given rBGH, that is something I would prefer to not consume, and the best guarantee I have of that is to get organic dairy products (like ice cream).

            On the other end of the factory farm spectrum we have the massive corporate, agri-business type of factory farms, where egregious animal abuse is the norm, not the exception. These are run by corporate liars and manipulators who don’t care about the lives of the people working for them, or for the animals they are abusing. These corporate sociopaths are categorically evil because they are willing to lie and misrepresent to promote their profit agenda and do not care if it costs human lives as people slowly become sick from eating diseased animals.

            I would be ok with sometimes buying meat from the “good” end of the factory farm continuum, but there isn’t any way to know if the factory farmed meats I could buy come from the good or the bad end of that spectrum.

            I don’t want to turn people into vegetarians, I just want people to be aware of what is going on so they can vote with their wallets for compassionately grown animal products, and people who actually respect life can earn money instead of the people who think it’s fine for an animal to live its entire life indoors in a cage.

      • see again, the comments below…the “organic”…i can’t get any of that stuff…at all…and isnt that orthorexia all over again?

        I don’t know if I fit in with Matt’s or Gwyneth’s site…I’m binging for years now (no purging) orthorexic, anxiety, ruined digestion, can’t elminate, depressed, never exercsse and was former athlete…I’m lost and frankly very frustrated and fed up…

        i’m the gal at midnight standing up eating enormous quantities of what most here would “gasp” at as junk….but i PAY for it dearly in digestion…and then am consitipated and can’t exercise…so its all stuck in me ….day after day, month after month, year after year…i need some kind of serious wash out before i ever feel normal again…dammit, ‘m sick of it …sorry..venting..

        • I think you need someone to help you with the bingeing first. If you can’t afford a therapist, maybe a support group? It doesn’t sound like “what” you eat will matter until you deal with that part. I know everyone will jump all over me but what about a course of anti-depressants to pull you out of this, it sounds like you are really suffering. Best wishes.

          • When you have the money (or access to the library) you can checkout Julia Ross’ Diet Cure. It very much has a plan and she has plans/supplements for binging. She basically recommends vegetables and whole carbs with good fats (butter/olive oil) and 20-30 grams of protein a meal plus at least basic supplements. Her theory is if you eat enough good food/nutrients and balance your body you will stop binging. She also believes in allergy addictors/yeast making you overeat ect. I generally don’t eat organic or worry about it that much. I blend her advice with Matt’s and Your Eatopia. Honestly, I find it hard to be well without cooking at least some. Can anyone help care for you for a bit?

            I think Matt helps people on a sliding scale (?)

            My digestion improved immensely on Custom Probiotics 11 strain formula. The are expensive but the bottle lasted a long time. Also bedtime magnesium citrate helped with constipation and nerves.

            I have been in horrible health before and I know it is hard to keep going. I was extremely depressed, fatigued, achy, anxious, pale about 6 years ago I could barely function/get out of bed and I had a toddler. I did go to Julia Ross’ clinic the first time back then and they brought me back to life until I ruined myself taking “healthy” too far, being pregnant and breastfeeding twice for 5 years straight, and loads of stress/lack of rest. Don’t give up Jill! Best wishes to you.

          • Thanks again….but this is the comment I left above:

            Well…how can I “poop”? PLEASE…remember: I’m not exercising, I’m constipated and I don’t purge or anything. I literally feel like my body is full of “toxins” you know?
            I binged again tonight (about 1000 cals) late late night) on fruit, nut butter, crackers and hummus, chocolate, artificial yogurt, crackers etc etc…is this okay? I’m not able to poop out anything beyond a couple stubs…its like all the toxins are being reasbsorbed into the body and the reason I am so brain fogged, exhausted, can’t exercise or concentrate, etc…I’ve been low weight like this before too (I’m short too remember and naturally very thin boned) and never so energyless…I feel so ashamed of myself. I want someone to say it is “okay” to eat a ton at night and to eat commercial, crap food…I just fear they won’t say that….therapy has been useless for me…its not gonna happen.

            (So like…how do I first “reset” myself…and what is extreme and what is not?)….would LOVE it if you could email me somwhow….can you give me your email or matt exchange them privately? seriously :(

        • Reader, bingeing happens usually when we do not eat enough and what we would like
          the rest of the time. I binge when i diet. I binge when my first meal for the day
          is after 12(yo IF..), i binge when i do not eat enough for dinner.
          What if you just eat a lot, regularly, stuff that you like and it isn’t that
          chips and coke?

        • Reader,

          I don’t want to bring up my experience at the expense of yours, but I can assure you that I felt soooo much like you before I got over all this mess. I thought I was so clogged up that I too, needed some cleanse, or reset. I went to the naturopath once and everything was off, white blood cells, liver, digestion out of wack, I felt so bad for such a long time. I could not digest anything…. when I let go and binged I was clogged for days, and would avoid eating just to lighten the feeling. It went on for a few years and digestion kept getting worse. It was kind of a nightmare. I had a lot of fear around food, binging, etc. I was so depressed and had no energy. I was prescribed all sorts of sedatives but never took them. All in all, my body was a wreck. But like I said earlier, I recovered from all that, simply by, over a period of about 1 year, I ate lots of food. I did’t categorize it. I just ate what I wanted. I never paid attention to organic. I ate mostly foods I like, like sweet potatoes, hot chocolate i made with cocoa, honey and rich milk, bananas, ice cream, belended soups with root veggies, etc. I ate what I liked. The reason why all my organs were so off was because they had suffered from under-nourishment. Believe me, by eating plenty of foods, your body rebuilds. Energy from food are the building blocks for the tissues in your body. And it’s goal is homeostatis…so it will repair if it has enough blocks to build with. My liver works fine now, no more braing fog AT ALL, energy for all my favorite activities, even went back to sport (was also athletic), my digestion also is a lot better (still not perfect because of my nervous personality – but waaaaay manageable, and I barely think about it anymore). What “unclogged” my digestion was the healing process of eating enough food and continuing to do so. It takes time to heal, but you have to make sure to keep eating enough to support a healthy weight (remembering your current weight, you can allow your body to gain a lot more to return to functionning). All the cleanses and flushes would in my opinion do more harm than good. The underlying issue is that your body needs energy to repair – and that for humans comes from food. is a great place to start. That’s what I used, and now I lead a completely normal life, coming from a place I don’t even want to think about.

          • LUCIE< You sound incredible and like me totally….but did you ever ever "binge" badly at night on CRAP and wake up and just start all over again (remember: No exercising, purging, nada…)

            this is the comment I left someone above: " Well…how can I "poop"? PLEASE…remember: I'm not exercising, I'm constipated and I don't purge or anything. I literally feel like my body is full of "toxins" you know?
            I binged again tonight (about 1000 cals) late late night) on fruit, nut butter, crackers and hummus, chocolate, artificial yogurt, crackers etc etc…is this okay? I'm not able to poop out anything beyond a couple stubs…its like all the toxins are being reasbsorbed into the body and the reason I am so brain fogged, exhausted, can't exercise or concentrate, etc…I've been low weight like this before too (I'm short too remember and naturally very thin boned) and never so energyless…I feel so ashamed of myself. I want someone to say it is "okay" to eat a ton at night and to eat commercial, crap food…I just fear they won't say that….therapy has been useless for me…its not gonna happen."

            If you can email me PLEASE do….like was it about a LOT of calories for you…or the "type" of food
            like if i just go hogwash on this chocolate, greek (nonorganic yogurt), cereals, nonorganic meats, generic crap foods………….is that still not gonna nourish me like meat or broth would (even EVEN if the broth were NOT organic or hormone free?) I do eat chicken and fish and eggs and dairy…thats' not what I'm saying…but every freakin' night is the same battle :(
            I feel forever ruined and am ashamed at my age now of nearly 32 and just being this way for over 6 years

            seems like u didn't do the night binges for YEARS, constipated for YEARS..sticking to "familar foods" for YEARS …and remember: not exercising away the binges or anything…

            like I know people less weight than I that can have energy and exercise, etc…with me : its like …its like I'm all toxin-ed up in the liver, kidneys, adrenals, spleen, colon, everything…just a mess :(

            If you can give me your email somehow that'd be great.

          • First of all I think you need to consider two things– (1) you’re still very young and you are in no way ruined and (2) you need to gain body fat much more than you need to worry about the purity of your food. The symptoms you’re having are those of someone who is starving– 85 lbs is far too low.

            The bingeing doesn’t sound like binging to me– 1000 calories is a pretty normal calorie count for a meal. You’re fixating on people mentioning organic this or that, I think what people are trying to say is that you need to move away from difficult to digest food like nut butters and hummus and eat very easily digested, high calorie food. Pancakes, waffles, cereal… Also, are you eating during the day– or do you try to abstain from food all day only to break down and eat in the evening. Bottom line– I think you need to gain weight; but, you probably need to get some professional help. Do you have any insurance or family that could help you? You are obviously starving and you’re suffering from disordered eating. Have you taken your temperature? That may give you a picture of how low your metabolism is. When I first started reading this site, I was 95.5 the first time I took my temp. I raised it to 98.9 this morning by eating 50 cent ramen noodles, rice with soy sauce, marshmallows and anything else I craved–I’m now gravitating naturally back to more wholesome food, but I don’t worry about it much at all anymore. I think if you looked at a picture of me at 31 (in the height of organic/ weston price) and now at 40 , you would flip the ages. I look better now– my hair is thicker, teeth whiter,skin has better color and tone. I thought it was impossible because I was older and didn’t have a thyroid– not true.

            Best of luck!!!

          • Thanks for your reply…I feel like its too “late” and I should have did all this years ago when I “knew” it ..its…difficult. The Eatopia site is interesting also…BUT I like Matt’s perspective because its mentally easier for me to grasp…it makes the concept MORE about “fixing” the metabolism versus the community at Eatopia that I find harder to relate to (anorexia).
            I do not (definitely do not) restrict during the day…I’ve become a binge eater…the thing is that I really can’t poop :( And I’m way too smart or cowardly (not sure which ) to take herbal laxative or enema , etc…I KNOW that very very thin (even sick) people CAN be literally “full” of poop even if skinny and I think that’s my case…like I feel like I need a “cleanse” but like someone said above what I need is a good freaking poop evveryday for a week. Most people seem opposite and can’t stop “going” to the bathroom….that’s how it all started for me…
            that’s why I DO believe on many levels that I have something wrong (leaky gut, liver and kidney pits, possibly bacteriall overgrowth etc etc…I really do …and it worries me that I’ve gone “too far” (since its been 6 years of this) and now I can’t do the “eat whatever you want” thing because of that (like there is so much vote for a semi paleo, GAPS, SCD way of eating….)…thing is that despite my low weight, you can pinch like 3 inches (at least) of loose skin all over my body….I’m wondering if I’m “doomed” and I’ll SwiNG the OTHER way and be one of those people that ends up chubby fat or never “the same” as former athletic self or always “gaining” extra even when eating “normally”…you know what I mean?
            I’m wondering if the metabolsim can be recovered…or if its not all the way possible :(

            And its 1000+ LATE night…wake up constipated and go to bed with extreme tummy pains…and remember I’m not even exercising….like I don’t know how or what to exercise when feeling like this ? Or how long it should take to gain “x” pounds, etc….
            OR why for the LAST few years do I have these 24-7 “stitches” in my lower rib/abdomen areas? Like seriously? particularly the left? Can anyone explain that? And it always literally “hurts” like bruises to touch the sides of my body all the way up the rib cage on both sides…

            I know I seem mentally nuts :) I’m not, trust me…just suddenly venting all my frustration and discouragement with MYSELF…

          • Reader, it may help to think of your future self 10 years down the road. You say it’s too late, but it’s not. You’re 31. I didn’t start recovering until 27 which only gave me a 4-year leg-up, and I was fine. You are in a more severe situation for sure, but 40 year olds, 50 year old, etc. recover from very severe anorexia and starvation situations. If they can, you can, too. But now is the time, before it gets any worse. 10 years from now, you will wish you dealt with this, fully, now.

            I am trying to find a story I read recently about a women around 40 who had a similar situation to yours, but I can’t locate for some reason. I’ll keep trying. Basically, she weighed about what you did, but she ate 3 meals a day. never considered herself “that bad” in terms of disordered eating. She finally went to a nutritionist when she stopped being able to poop. She thought she needed more fiber (she thought, but I eat so many vegetables, how could that be?). The nutritionist very quickly told her she had severe anorexia and had to go to inpatient treatment. She ultimately did. She is now a healthy and thriving woman.

            I know you say you’re not anorexic, but your weight suggests a really serious issue. So does your mental state. Most people with anorexia don’t think they have the condition because they’re not restrictive enough. It’s the only condition where people don’t think they’re “good enough” at the disease to warrant care!

            Where do you live? If you’re in the NYC area, I can recommend some good nutritionists and other services. I think you are going to need more support than this website can provide, and potentially inpatient treatment. If your digestive system is really that compromised, you may need some medical support and alternate means of nutrition for a short time.

            Please give yourself the help you deserve. You are only 31. If you really deal fully with this now, you could be vibrant and healthy within a year or 2, with plenty of time left to enjoy your life.

          • Thanks for the reply…trust me: I only come across more “nuts” than I am…trust me…I’m a lot more normal or capable than I realize I am portraying myself here…I think its just that I go into “verbal vomit” and vent my frustration and worry.

            Ouch. See…this began when I was 27 and I kind of *knew* then deep in my gut what I had to do ….but I didn’t…so see what I mean ? I find it VERY difficult to get over that regret…my sister recently even said to me…its been 5 years, come on change something, 5 years you’ve wasted your life…and its SO true…just sitting in a depressed stupor,, chasing internet sites and convincing myself I have leaky gut nd this and that and that all my issues are due to digestion and NOT to eat more…
            its odd though…i’m 31, and i wasn’t a heavy exercise (i NEVER exercise now except for slow walks) and I mean I eat normal calories….honest to goodness…i don’t understand how that happens yet others around me (friends) etc the same or less but dont end up that way…thats why i’ve always thought its something “more”..

            Not sure how to get RID of the regret and shame…i should have did it at 27…i have lost my jobs, all my money, a decent/healthy place to live, opportunity to travel, everything…i’ve lost it all…god, i’m kicking myself so hard at the thigns i KNEW i shuld’ve did but i was so trapped in some obsession of worry + comparing and internet hopping….was that just the way it was “meant to be” I wonder….for some reason, it hurts less to think that fate makes it that way (but I know that is “copping” out and not taking responsibility)….

            trouble now is that SINCE i’ve gone on so long eating literally the SAME things day after day and BINGING very late at night on the SAME heavy things…I think I seriously do have leaky gut, bad bacteria, everything (constipated or narrow, teeny, messy stool, never fully eliminated, brain fog , aachy everywhere, and left and right side stitches especially in left side)…and i feel full after eating very little….

            I KNOW everyone says to eat whatever and eat alot…but I NEED some kind of meal plan…i hear things for plant based or paleo or this or that in order to FIX these digestion and brain fog issues, but i know know…. but i wonder if i DO need to eliminate certain foods (eggs, yogurt, etc) and i don’t have organic or hormone free stuff….eliminating eggs and yogurt would…suck….not sure…ugh…

            I have a few ideas/articles here for MEAL plans to at least give me structure + make me stop binging , etc..but not sure which one to start with…obviously NOT long terms, but just something for 1-2 weeks to slide me out of binging (why oh why did I fall into that pattern….i just kept doing it …SO not ever imagine di would have)….

            anyway, I know for example this meal plan is based on “weight loss” blah blah blah..BUT its a good looking plan with variety and stuff and wondered if this might be good just for a week? esp.. to cleanse body and MIND….

            or this one:
            or this one:


            Then of course there are your standard generic ones which I don’t relate to so much, but…

            This one gives basic meal plan sample that is alright too:

            I guess I need simple. But right now I eat the SAME thigns all time…
            also…is whey or a non-whey (sunwarrior? RAW garden of life, or generic brown rice) a better choice in order to try out breakfast smoothies? i’ve used both in past and again I cn’t figure out what foods are issues cause I eat the same ones without fail…I want to start tommorow a NEW day and start changing somehow :(

            I do need simple , cheap, not a lot of overwhelming brain power or kitchen space, etc…afraid to just “jump in” and need to step-wise it you know?

            Also, exercise? Slow walking? pathetic…oye…doesnt’ help the digestion, jeesh….my whole body is like a tight string….a very basic weight training guide for low dumbbells at home would be alright…simple stuff (like a 100 days guide or somethting would be neat)…

            I reeally like an ebook I read called “The Conscious Cleanse” that takes you through a 14 day meal plan and gives you all these spiritual lessons and growings along the way…it would eliminate eggs, dairy, gluten for example and keep food simple (no “combining” ) and food is unlimited if you want “more”..but I’m not know? Like ONE sample day is like this:

            b – smoothie ( 1 quart….which seems like a LOT…plus I worry about all the sugar but no protein in this smoothie, but maybe I’m not thinking right?….anyway…sample smoothie–different ones each day)

            This day for example: 1 cup blueberries, 1 banana, 2 swiss chard eaves, 1 tsp cinnamon, 1 tbsp hemp seeds,, 2 cups water)…see…a lot? plus all fruit?

            if still hungry …add 4-8 oz of lean animal protein 1-2 hours later

            (other breakfast options might be buckwheat porridge, etc…but I’m like…terrified of grains other than the rice cakes I binge on :(

            L – sample this day ….salad (greens, lots of veggies, 1-2 tbsp oil, 1-2 tbsp seeds/nuts/flax, 1/2 avocado optional)

            If still hungry add 4 oz salmon

            s – kale chips OR 1/3 cup walnuts OR veggies + homemade hummus

            d – vegetable medley stir fry +

            EITHER 1 – 2 cups of brown rice (a lot) OR 4-8 oz chicken

            but not sure….

            when does it come down to calories and when to food i wonder…cause i see a lot of energetic gals gaining just normally and this is confusing….YET , not confusing…it can be simple if i let it…

          • If you weigh 85 lbs these eating plans sound like a terrible idea. Mcdonald’s supersize meals 3x day sound like a much better idea. I understand that conventional doctors have ruled out any health problems that would cause cachexia? If so, you must be eating a lot less than you believe. More body fat and lean tissue would help your digestion. You may not be pooping because your body needs every last one of the calories you are eating. Something is not adding up. Your weight is a problem– not the crap yogurt, not the hormone laden eggs, not the absence of kale chips. You need some help to gain weight. Your body will work better with more (any!) body fat and lean muscle. Your most pressing need is to weigh more than you do right now. You need to go to a doctor or hospital if you feel you physically can’t eat more calories. I would definitely pick up some Ensure or some kind of high calorie meal replacement.

          • The best foods will be those that have the most calories per spoonful – i.e., the most calorie dense. Otherwise you won’t get the surplus and you will also take in too much water and pee like crazy and be ice cold after meals. Smoothies are the worst possible food on earth. Try pancakes and syrup for breakfast, cheeseburger and fries with a milkshake at lunch, and pizza and Coke for dinner. And then have at least one if not two snacks in between each one of these meals.

          • Reader, my heart goes out to you, it really does. It’s very clear to me from what you’ve written that you have an eating disorder. The reason your friends can “eat less” and not have the same issues is probably because they binge on cookies and other junk when you’re not around. That practice causes shame to people but saves them from starvation. People who are not prone to restrictive eating disorders will do this. They won’t tell you about it,

            I apologize in advance if the following comes across as harsh, but you need to hear it. You absolutely have wasted 5 years of your life. Do not waste any more. Life is too short and too precious. Most people with your health issues would try to just eat more if people around them were telling them that was the issue, rather than spending days searching the internet on leaky gut and allowing themselves to lose their job, etc. That you have done this suggests a serious eating disorder.

            I am generally a fan of organic, but it is not important at all in starvation-type situations. Many people live their entire, long lives on non-organic food. A year for recovery certainly won’t make a difference. For you to just get food, any food, is more important. It is healthier to give your body enough calories on nothing but snickers bars than to not give it enough calories.

            These meal plans sound like bad ideas for someone trying to heal their gut. Way too much fiber and stuff, which will make matters worse. What you really need, as Susan and Matt pointed out, is extremely digestible food. This includes things that you probably have some mental interference against, like white flour, dairy fat and sugar. Despite what you read in most places, they will actually help your digestion re-regulate because you will be able to actually absorb the calories and nutrients in your food. When I was recovering, I ate butter mixed with brown sugar, plain – it was amazing.

            Matt’s meal plan sounds excellent. If you need some homemade options, here is a meal template that may also help you:
            Breakfast: digestible carbs, with fat and a little protein – such as pancakes with syrup and a couple of bacon slices, or toast with butter and jam and eggs (scrambled or fried in butter), or slow-cooked oatmeal with a lot of cream and sugar.

            Snack – whatever sounds good! Balanced carb + fat + protein is good but the protein is not necessary
            e.g., full-fat greek yogurt with sliced banana and honey, or a cheese wedge with pita chips. OR whatever sounds yummy. You could eat snickers bars if you want. No restrictions at all.

            Lunch – again, digestible carbs, fat and protein
            Sandwich with white bread spread with butter, roast beef and cheese, potato chips or pita chips, and ice cream or cookies for dessert. Sandwich with cheese, avocado and turkey, with a milkshake and cookies.

            Snack – same as in am.
            Maybe banana slices with peanut butter and honey or peanut butter sandwich or cookies with milk or whatever sounds yummy

            Dinner – same formula. Digestible carb + protein + fat
            Pizza, juice
            broiled or fried chicken with skin, white rice with butter, steamed carrots with butter, with juice to drink

            The basic template is digestible carb + fat + some protein at every meal. As much salt as tastes good. Snacks do not need to be protein-heavy or anything like that. They really can be any food you want, and junk food makes a great snack. Have juice or milk or soda with every meal. Forget about fiber, veggies, etc. Have some veggies, but make sure they’re digestible and well-cooked – like tomato soup or oven-roasted tomatoes, steamed carrots. They should be small additions to meals (not snacks), and should not be the main feature. Sugar, saturated fat and white flour are king.

            I still think you need to enlist some professional help. But at the very least enlist the help of your family, if they are willing (it sounds like your sister is concerned).

          • You obviously doesn’t read the commnts. You are in no way special. Plenty of us have been where you are now. The comments, even from matt himself, contain helpful advice. Stop making yourself a damn victim and deal with it already. You came here for advice and help, it has been given to you. The rest is up to you. eat the fukingFOOD! not nut butters and shit but
            food that has been recommended here.


        • Matt’s free ebook, top of page, orange box, would be a good (and free) start. But most of all you need to DECIDE to try something you haven’t before and stop repeating, to yourself-most of all, that this doesn’t work, that doesn’t work, etc. and just try something different from what you’ve been doing.

  35. Some theory when our metabolisms are low and calories are low is our heat tolerance (I’m speaking for myself at least) low because our bodies want us to quickly find a way to cool down to keep the metabolism low because it needs it that way for survival until calories are brought up?

    Also, since becoming a “Hot Chick” I have even less tolerance for heat. If my house gets over 67 I feel like I’m going to pass out and off come the clothes and the windows get opened up. How is it that people living in warm climates have higher metabolisms AND presumable greater tolerance to the heat? I’m scared to summer to come!

    • They must be very lean and sweat a lot I presume. Their could be some metabolic downregulation with really high chronic high temps. That’s okay that your clothes come off at room temperature as well. That is proper behavior for a member of the Hot Chicks Club.

      • Matt – is lack of sweating a sign of low metabolism? I just do not sweat. I feel really sick (dizzy, nauseated) and feel like I’m going to drop (I know this is heat exhaustion) but I will barely break a sweat. Only in the pits/crotch/around my hairline. It’s so frustrating! I used to be a huge water drinker. I still hear your voice in my head “stop drinking so much f-ing water!” I’ve stopped the water almost completely now and have been RRARFing for about 6 weeks… I’m feeling better, not 100%, but it’s slowly getting there… I’m going to be your newest Hot Chicks Club member at age 44 though, at times I hover around 99! And that’s huge since I started out in the 96’s!

  36. One more thing – I think a lot of this post’s info is great and stimulating a lot of thought people like Wim Hof and his followers prove the idea of carrying fat to keep warm to be pretty wrong. He spends extended periods of time in the cold (unlike the 5 minute cold shower people) and is quite trim. He doesn’t sell this idea for weight loss though, he is focused on the health benefits.

    I suspect the truth is somewhere in the middle. There are many benefits of cold and heat and one doesn’t have to be bad and the other good.

  37. Wow, I must be sleepy! Sorry for the hard to read posts. I just re-read them and can hardly understand it myself:)

  38. The guy in the main picture is Wim Hof, aka ‘The Iceman’. His claim to fame is his ability to withstand cold, packed in ice and swimming in lakes under the ice. He has another lesser known feat under his belt–in 2011, he ran a full marathon in the Namib desert in temps around 90 degrees with no water or food!

  39. Thanx a ton Matt. Perfect timing since last night i was reading alot about Jack Kruse stuff and was gonna try it and ive done alot of cold showers up till this day. Fuck all that, warmth here i come :)

  40. Just couldn’t do it, I’m more of a soak in a hot tub kind of girl.

  41. There could be a reason why Finnish people love the sauna up to 200 degrees F! (Then there’s the jump in the snow part, which I cannot tolerate anymore… but maybe if I keep RRARFing and getting my early teen metabolism back (at nearly 44, not sure how likely that is but I’m trying!) I can do that roll in the snow again!

    • I’m Finnish and yes I used to do that rolling in the snow thing but can’t anymore, I guess my metabolism is pretty low at the moment, I started recovering from anorexia/orthorexia 8 months ago and was doing better fir a few months but now for maybe three months have bern cold again with no appetite and thirsty all the time, panic attackd, dry mouth and fatigue. Ugh it’s so frustrating! I guess I should just keep eating more anyway and try not to panic, but it’s hard…
      Anyway, I want to be able roll in the snow too!

  42. Yeah, to me, anyone who advocates cold-water thermogenesis does not live in a Northern climate. I live in Canada, where it’s either freezing @$$ cold or moderately chilly and wet 9 months outta the year. No self-respecting Canadian in their right mind would tell you that feeling cold is good for you. It sucks and we all spend those 9 months praying like Hell summer comes earlier this year.

    • Matt, your RRARF pdf has given me much to think about. I’m coming around to the conclusion that paleo has become a religion and obsession of sorts, and my health did not improve when I removed tons of good, nutritious food after having a blood test for ‘intolerances’. My quality of life has suffered for the past few years obsessing over what I should be eating, what’s apparently making me sick, etc. I had a long talk about this tonight with my wife and she agreed that life is too short to obsess over the ‘right’ way to eat. She had to cope with a lot of my intense anxiety about my health issues. It drove us both nuts.

      I live in Toronto, and winter is SHIT. We both hate the cold, and I meant actively HATE cold weather. It’s cute ‘n shit for Christmas, and then….BEGONE!!! Summer is my favourite season. It’s just too short here.

      • Yeah I’m with you here. I consider myself a “Recovering Caveman”. I eventually came to the conclusion that much of the paleo dogma is crap (like you, I went that way after blood tests for food intolerances) but I’m still working on shaking some of the food anxiety this approach to eating has left on me.

    • I used to live in Upper Michigan. So I know what you’re talking about.

  43. I add this anecdotal story as well, which popped into my head this afternoon. My grandmother, who was very thin when she was young (and, I will add, a knock-out her whole life, in every way) lived in Virginia, but then moved to Scotland for a year abroad during college (in the early 1930s). She gained a fair amount of weight there. This was a woman who was naturally thin her whole life. No effort. She attributed it to the cold weather, and said she’d never imagined ever having a weight issue until then. She said she was hungry all the time. She also mentioned another time that there weren’t many greens served – she really missed vegetables and fruits while she was there. She lost the weight again after coming back and stayed thin all her life (gaining a bit at midlife and after kids, but still well within the average range for the 1960s/70s person).

    And it was not stress of being away from home either. She always talked about her time in Scotland as the most fun she’d had in her life. Many of her happiest memories were made there, and lifelong friends.

    • I really appreciated this anecdote. The interpretation of weight gain as an adult is so simplistic, everyone assumes it to be a pathological process. I find it helpful to trust that my body is intelligent, adaptive and resilient.

  44. I’m all about rocking the wine induced thermogenesis. I have no desire to drink to get drunk or even tipsy these days but I’ve found time and time again, that for me, a swig or two or three makes my temperatures sky rocket when combined with a salty dinner with a few sweets.

    • Interesting, same thing happens to me and my wife with wine, no joke.

      Hmm, working title of a new book: “Alcohol, the great metabolism enhancer”?

  45. I want to make a make a repetitive comment unrelated to the post, since the chat has gone back to food as usual.

    –> A sweet tooth (‘carb cravings’) has been shown to indicate a dietary _protein deficiency_ in animals. Please 180 peeps, stop ‘listening to your body’ when it tells you it wants carbs. It doesn’t. It wants carbs because carbs allow it to ‘spare’ it’s own lean tissue (uh, protein) from internal break-down (recycling). It assumes (due to evolution) protein is scarce. <–

    Don't believe me? Try this experiment.

    First, let's define a sweet tooth. Take a drink of a coke (diet or regular). If it tastes like it's something only a child would drink, you don't have a sweet tooth. If it tastes like you finally understand why Coca Cola is one of the largest companies in the world, you have a sweet tooth.

    Second, once you've confirmed your sweet tooth, drink a low-carb protein smoothie (preferably made from free form amino acids) instead of anything sweet! About 30 minutes later try the sweet tooth experiment again.

    Doing this one time should convince you.

    SPECULATION: the same may also go for a fat tooth.

    No worries, I will repeat this repetitive comment on future blogs until all have had a chance to yeah/nay it.

    • No, if it were protein deficiency most of us wouldn’t have ended up here.
      Most have failed on a Paleo diet. Yes, eating the protein takes away the
      craving for sweet. But, after a short time on paleo, I became exhausted, cold, constipated, brain fogged, etc….those adjectives don’t come close to describing
      the low metabolism nightmare I was living in.

      I have craved sweets all my life. Yet in the name of health I did not allow myself
      to enjoy my sweet tooth. I was in such a state mentally that I don’t remember
      when I started reading Matt’s work. I would guess it was in the summer of 2011.

      Anyway….I have been eating whatever amount of carb or, sweet I wanted since
      this time. It just so happens that in the last few weeks, I am no longer a
      sweet tooth kinda girl. I wake in the morning and, don’t want a muffin, pancakes,
      or, sweetened oatmeal. Nope, I want a bowl of savory oats. This is a very strange
      phenomenon for me. I am 51. Never have I wanted anything for breakfast and,
      especially if it wasn’t sweet. Too, I now crave meals. There was a time all I
      craved was cake. Not any more. I go days/weeks without cake now. These days I
      do crave protein. :) But, it is because my body now has the energy to digest
      and, utilize the amino acids. Thanks Matt!

      To be understood, I do eat sweets. I just don’t crave them like I use to!

      • Thanks for sharing Betty, it’s always good to get different perspectives. Like you, Paleo was a big fail for me too. To be clear, I’m on Stone’s 180 diet plan as well and doing great.

        The thing I *think* I’ve learned though is that an occasional sweet tooth, like on days where I could drink say 5-6 cans of coke, is really an indicator of a protein deficiency.

        It’s kind of weird, in all my life, I can’t really recall ever having had a ‘protein tooth’. It’s like my body doesn’t tell me when it wants protein (though clearly it does), it only tells me when it wants carbs or fats.

        For what it’s worth, the animal studies (all on mammals) are definitive: carb cravings can be induced from controlled protein deficiency. Of course that’s not to say that _all_ carb cravings indicate a protein deficiency. Some could indicate an actual carb deficiency, which is the intuitive interpretation, and which sounds like the case for you.

        So, to put my repetitive comment another, gentler, way: not _all_ carb cravings indicate a carb deficiency rather some, counter-intuitively, indicate a protein deficiency.

        The test I describe above can be used to discriminate between them.

        • But 5 or 6 cokes would be way different than thinking a sip of coke tastes good. I just had a coke and I drank about 3/4 of it before it didn’t taste good anymore. The first few sips were awesome but I can’t imagine ever drinking more than 1 coke a day. Also coke is kind of a special case, it has caffeine and carbonation… there are times when I crave coke and no other sweet thing would satisfy me.

          • Hi Tierney,

            The animals don’t gorge on carbs, just a small amount at a time, enough to satisfy their craving. But over time the weight accumulated. Their bodies would rather store excess fat than ‘break-down’ internal protein stores.

            My 5-6 cans comment was an exaggeration, though 4 over the course of a day, would be a real possibility.

            But for me personally, that first small sip is the tell-tale. If it tastes great/awesome, I now take that to mean I need protein. Later after some eating protein, I re-test (take another sip). Usually I find the taste has changed and become way to ‘sugary sweet’ to want any of it. Its really amazed me how much taste/flavor can change in such a short time.

            Discussing this with Betty above gave me the new idea that if the second sip (after consuming protein) still tastes good, then it’s a ‘genuine’ carb craving.

            I don’t think caffeine and carbonation have much to do with it. Yes, caffeines effects are real but they aren’t pleasant to me. Carbonation is needed or it tastes too sweet even when I think it tastes good. Ever tried a flat coke?

          • I might try this experiment, although I am skeptical. (It would mean I have a reason to drink two cokes, heh heh.) How many grams of protein are you talking about?

          • No, you won’t drink 2 cokes. You only take 2 ‘drinks’ of coke.

            If the first one tastes really good, like you’d want to finish the whole thing, drink a protein shake (8oz) instead. Or eat actual animal protein (4-6oz). But if the first drink of coke tastes too sweet, it’s not the right time to try this test.

            The difference between powder and meat is in how long it will take to be able to tell if it did anything or not. Protein powders, being amino acids, gets absorbed quickly into the blood stream. Animal protein is digested slowly, it can take a whole day for their amino acids to get into the blood stream. So practically speaking, it better if it’s protein powder.

            About 30 minutes after finishing the protein shake, take a second drink of the coke. See how the taste has changed.

            BTW, it can be a diet coke. The tongues sweet taste buds respond the same way to artificial sweetener as to real sugar. In reality, artificial sweeteners ‘trick’ the taste buds into thinking its sugar. So, you’ll get the feedback you need with either type.

          • Oh no. I work in a lab running experiments all day. Replication is very important. A coke sitting around for half an hour while you digest your protein would not be exactly the same as a coke just opened. I will need two.

        • I’m with Tierney here. 5 or 6 cokes must have something to
          do with the caffeine, etc…… or, you like drinking your calories.

          I am not a coke fan. Even when I craved sweets, it wasn’t in liquid
          form. I tried Ray Peat’s OJ fest and, it was too many liquid calories
          for me.


    Blood pressure may be affected both by the temperature of someone’s personal environment and by the number of daylight hours, researchers found.

    Among patients referred to hypertension clinics and undergoing ambulatory blood pressure monitoring, each increase of 1° C (1.8º F) in daytime personal-level environmental temperature was associated with a 0.14-mm Hg drop in average daytime systolic blood pressure (95% CI 0.02 to 0.25), according to Pietro Amedeo Modesti, MD, PhD, of the University of Florence in Italy, and colleagues.

  47. Before my body temperature started going up, I actually had little tolerance for hot weather. I was 96.1, but felt much better without coats on outside. I’m wondering if that was partly due to my inability to sweat very much. Now that I’m averaging 98.4, I’m like everyone else and want to bundle up. I live in Germany where people will wear their winter coats and scarves except on the warmest of days. They believe it’s bad for you to get chilled. I used to think it was bizarre and a sign of a weak constitution, now I’m thinking they may be on to something. We just got back from a week in Greece and the warmth and sun felt so good– it didn’t bother me the way it usually does.

  48. Some of my healthy friends (who eat whatever and still stay lean) usually drop some weight at every summer naturally. Interesting article,I guess I will start some experiment with it.

  49. I am under teh impression that spicy food helps to drop one’s temperature ultimately. Acutely one gets hotter, then sweats as a mechanism to cool down. This is supposedly a factor why spicy food is so much a part of Indian culinary culture… (notwithstanding the raita etc)

  50. Hey All
    Not only have I tinkered with Steve Richfields methods, but I have been right through the process. I did this under Steve’s watchful eye and instruction three years ago. I cured LOADS of minor illnesses and may have averted a recurrance of a BIG one. I now cycle at 37C, I also understand my metabolism and know how to manipulate it, I understand and can conserve my adrenals. I am well and healthier.
    You can read my story, just google me Janey Hood. Have faith. Steve may seem eccentric, but the most brilliant minds in history have been ridiculed before proven to be right.
    Steve is an engineer, his brilliance is due to his IQ of 200 and his ability to think freely. I may sound like a groupie, but I believe he might just have saved my life, so I have reason.
    Janey Hood

    • Thanks Janey. I will google you (I tried clicking on your hyper-linked name and it was broken) and read your story. You may be right and my passing derision (above) may be misplaced. However, understand our skepticism. A lot of people here (including me) have tried some nutty shit, hoping it would be helpful only to discover that it was just nutty.

    • IMO Steve’s main point is valid.

      In fact, I’ll take it a step farther. Everything we try to do to improve our health, is actually an attempt to re-program our autonomous nervous system.

      When we’re young, our ANS basically works correctly for most of us and our health is automatic. Life goes on, drama/traumas occur, and our ANS get funked up. Applying any ‘alternative health’ strategies is an unrealized attempt to re-program our ANS back to working order. Food, exercise, rest, sun, warmth/cold are the input ‘variables’ to the ANS program.

      And I really like his ideas on cancer cause and therapy, innovative for sure.

      Thanks for the reference!

  51. I had not come across this concept before so it was interesting to be introduced to something new in the health arena. I always keep an open mind to health and after reading this I have to say…I don’t have the guts to have a cold shower or bath. Warm for me is the way to go. :-)

  52. Hey everyone, I’ve been reading this site for a while now and I’ve got a question for everyone here that has either got their weight stable or lost weight while eating to appetite, as I could do with a few other opinions on it. I posted this question of Chiefrok’s blog as well, but he’s not there at the moment and not as many people seem to be checking out his blog at the moment either, so there aren’t many opinions or discussions to be had, which is a shame.

    Anyway, for the past 10-11 months I’ve been eating to appetite after dieting down from 200 pounds (fairly chubby, mainly around the middle) to 140ish (very skinny, but chubby around the middle) over a year and a half period, I’ve been eating mostly junk food type stuff because I think my digestion was really weak after all that dieting, and that’s the closest thing to a direct craving my body was having. I’m now up at about 213 pounds and my appetite seems to have dropped quite a lot and I’m no where near as interested in chocolate and junk food (carb type foods) anymore and it’s been like it for about a week. I just want to know if this is a common way people’s bodies respond trying to get healthier and possibly start losing excess fat (especially around the middle.) What I expected to happen was to get over my original weight and then for my appetite and other factors to improve (energy levels, hormone levels, anxiety to decrease, etc etc), but is it possible that my body is trying to lose weight by decreasing my appetite? I know there’s lots of factors that affect weight and health, but I’m wary of eating less calories because of the diet mentality associated with it, (and I was really looking forward to being capable of eating large amounts of food in one go.)

    It’s hard for me to eat intuitively as well, half the time I don’t know if I’m hungry or not, and I don’t know what to eat when I decide to cook food. It was like that when I was coming off my diet as well, I don’t seem to get very strong cravings.

    I’m not overly concerned about this stuff but I am confused because after getting down to 140 pounds, I was really expecting to get a lot fatter eating to appetite, then have my weight stabilize, and then get leaner, but I’ve gotten fatter and leaner the more weight I’ve put on, the little bit of abs I could see at 140 is a lot clearer now at 213, but I have a 35 inch waist now and 40 inch hips. I think maybe the fact that I was having junk food days as part of my original diet might have helped the ratio of fat and muscle regain, (I’m more muscular and leaner now than I was originally which is confusing.)

    Anyway, my main question is what is the general way people tend to recover from diets eating to appetite? Sorry for the rambley type post, I just wanted to get the important info in there.


  53. This is in accordance with TCM principles what u said about low metabolism people avoiding cold. They say that about food as well and so ice cream is out. Warm cream with molasses wo u ld be considered better.

  54. Wait a minute, does the pig get more saturated when you put a sweater on him REGARDLESS of his diet? Does this mean his body can convert unsaturated fats to saturated? or what am I not seeing here? Of course I’m wondering if the same would apply for humans



  1. BBC's Chilll down. Cold temperatures Modulated artificially for weight loss...? - Page 5 - [...] Re: BBC's Chilll down. Cold temperatures Modulated artificially for weight loss...? Hot Water vs. Cold Water …
  2. I have grown weary of the cult of low body fat | Fit and Feminist - [...] Sam of Fit, Feminist and (Almost) Fifty posted a link about thermogenesis that really frustrated me.  Now, it’s nothing …
  3. Cold Thermogenesis - 5 Years Later - [...] my body temperature, starting with some of the articles and ebooks by Matt Stone. So when he posted Hot …

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