Hypoglycemia – It’s Not All in Your Head, It’s All in Your Urine

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While I of course am still very unsure of what to make of my RBTI adventure overall (it’s only been a week, and it is quite a shocking mind funk), I feel comfortable saying that there is at least something of value going on here. How much value? I don’t know. It remains to be seen. I have no doubt that some seriously undesirable body chemistries can be greatly improved, and from the improvement many health problems of all kinds can be improved along with it. This is obviously a very familiar concept here and in the world of nutrition and natural health to begin with.

While I am most skeptical that the ideal urine and saliva pH is 6.4, what I am becoming increasingly certain about is the absolute awesomeness of the tool used in RBTI known as the refractometer. The refractometer is a simple agricultural tool that measures the degree of refraction as light passes through a liquid. The result is a number representing the total amount of dissolved carbohydrate in the liquid (I thought this number was the “Brix” number, but was corrected by DML on that – thanks dude).

What’s so cool about it is that it really is the best measurement of your true sugar levels. The mainstream thinks it’s all about the blood sugar level, and this can be revelatory, but often the carbohydrate levels in the urine and the blood move in completely opposite directions. This is particularly true as it pertains to what people casually refer to as “hypoglycemia.”

Hypoglycemia is a term that drives many in Western Medicine berserk. They go nutty nuts (a technical term used by Martin Short in his role as Clifford – one of the most monumental and inspiring motion pictures in the history of film) because actually having blood sugar levels in the range of hypoglycemia (below 65 mg/dl) is very rare – and you can go below that and sometimes feel just fine, with no signs of an adrenaline surge.

In fact, if most people were to test their blood sugar when feeling that shaky, irritable, lethargic, headachy, mid-afternoon “hypoglycemic” dip, they would find that their blood sugar is actually elevated. And this is where the confusion over what is really physiologically taking place in a person’s body stems from. It is most certainly hypoglycemia, but because the blood sugar is fine or even elevated, in the medical world this is not hypoglycemia but just some psychosomatic crapola. The refractometer settles this.

I’ll explain in a moment. First, let’s look at the “hypoglycemia” experienced by one of the people who turned me onto Challen and the RBTI in the first place.

I had a very difficult time helping this person to rehabilitate herself from a high-protein/low-carb distance running combo that left her completely unable to metabolize food and hospitalized for months. She was a wreck. When carbohydrate was freely available to her system she actually felt pretty good. When it wasn’t, she would tremble and shake, vomit, lay awake sleepless, and deteriorate rapidly. We tried again and again to tweak macronutrient ratios and things like that, but still she would experience these crushing hypoglycemic blows.

What she was experiencing, without a doubt, was the symptoms of her adrenal glands kicking into hyperdrive in order to elevate sugar levels in the body. That’s where the shaking, psychological and mood disturbances, cold hands and feet, and so forth stem from. Not exactly rocket science.

And she was at her worst early in the morning. 4am is a very common time of day to enter into a hypoglycemic state and it progresses throughout the early dawn hours if no food is ingested. This person had a glucose meter, so she tested. During this hardcore (and I mean hardcore) hypoglycemic episode, her blood sugar levels would soar to 130 mg/dl (technically hyperglycemia!) – a diabetic fasting level. But this person was definitely no diabetic. In fact, eating would immediately make her feel better and send the blood sugar plummeting to 75-ish.

What’s going on here is that the adrenals keep blood sugar elevated – trying to deliver sugar to the system somehow, and when food is ingested insulin rises, shuts down the adrenal glands, and stops the release of glycogen coming from the muscles and liver (which is the source of the hyperglycemia during fasting).

There is always a push-pull going on between the primary sugar raising and sugar lowering forces in the body. In the most simplistic sense, activation of the sympathetic nervous system causes the body to release sugar from within, and when food is ingested the body switches into a parasympathetic state that allows the sugar to be stored and stops the release of sugar from within.

In someone with hypoglycemic tendencies, the sympathetic nervous system goes wild to continually try to make carbohydrate available.

You may be a little confused at this point. Is hypoglycemia really hyperglycemia and how can I call someone with hyperglycemia (blood glucose 130mg/dl) “in a hypoglycemic state?”

The almighty refractometer tells the real story. If you want a tool that will tell you whether you lack carbohydrate or have too much, blood sugar testing ain’t gonna do it for you. The refractometer, however, is extremely reliable from what I’ve seen thus far. During those hypoglycemic dips, so common in the wee hours of the morning and in the early afternoon, the refractometer reading of the urine will tell you all you need to know.

Now, when this person tests the sugar levels of her urine, it will confirm if she is hypoglycemic or not (but of course, by now, she knows exactly what it feels like to have the sugar level dipping too low – hypoglycemic symptoms emerge like clockwork). The reading will be 1.2 or less, and in her case, with a severe problem, it is often much lower (like 0.5). Yet, her blood sugar often moves in the exact opposite direction.

Part of the RBTI program is keeping the sugar levels stable in a small range instead of a large, chaotic roller coaster range. And many years ago, when I first ate to keep my sugar levels as stable as possible by eating precise amounts of carbohydrates at precise and consistent meal times, I no doubt experienced the benefits.

If you know, even after doing RRARF (which can increase your glycogen storage capacity, improve glucose clearance, and other things that are helpful in keeping sugar levels stable), that you still have some lingering sugar swings that are causing you problems with energy, sleep, mood, focus, appetite and cravings, and more – there’s no question that using a refractometer and figuring out the precise times of day, number of minutes after meals, and so forth that your sugar levels tend to tank could be a huge game changer. Then, by simply eating a piece of fruit or two during that time, you may in turn be able to keep your sugar stable enough to reap the many potential rewards of keeping this stable (and keeping the stress response dormant).

From what I have gathered so far, Challen’s rules regarding hypoglycemia couldn’t be simpler. Whenever sugar levels are below 1.5 on the refractometer, eat a piece of fruit or have a sip of juice (and get to know at about what time that is going to happen). If you have sugar crashes in the wee hours of the morning, make sure not to eat heavy in the evening and keep an apple or glass of juice by your bedside. That’s it. Complicated stuff I know.

But seriously, Challen strongly thinks that the refractomer alone would be enough to really improve people’s health. I tend to agree. For self-care and dietary fine-tuning, it shows a lot of potential. Seeing how unstable some people’s sugar levels are with the use of the refractometer, more medical folk would really understand hypoglycemia, and realize that the problems are not just all in people’s head when the problem doesn’t show up in the unreliable glucose tolerance test.

Granted, this article is really an oversimplification of the whole picture of sugar regulation and how sugar levels interact with the pH and salt levels.  But like I said, I do suspect that the refractometer does have a medical value aside from the strict practicing of the full RBTI program.  I can’t wait to get one and play with it.



  1. Hey Matt,

    Where can I find a reliable refractometer? Wow, I'm first.

  2. Whoops, I mean refractomer.

  3. You spelled it right the first time. I went through the post and had spelled it "refractomer" 4 times and "refractometer" 6 times. 60% right is pretty good I guess!

    You'll have to call Challen (304-230-9283) to find out where to get one of these things. I'm not sure if he will sell you one or if you have to order it elsewhere, but I think they are about $115

    But it's pretty cool that those with real sugar problems register low sugar readings with this thing. A blood glucose meter would never pick that up.

  4. Hey Matt

    If rice and potatoes are out, what starches (if any) are allowed?

  5. Ivan,

    You can also take a look at Google Shopping and Amazon results for refractometers. Apparently they're used for making wine and beer.

    Some are priced as low as $40, but I guess you'll have to rely on reviews to make sure you're getting a reliable one.

  6. Matt,

    Did you already make the corrections? I still see "refractomer" in the first sentence of the second to last paragraph. And it's spelled that way in the Labels for this blogpost under the last video too. Just FYI :-)

    Can you find out and let us know which brand/model refractometer Challen uses or recommends? Pretty please? With sugar on top? Or maybe whipped cream instead? Wait, is that on your "no-no" list? :-)

    I've seen them for considerably less than $100 too but would like something for comparison.

    P.S. Love Clifford. And Martin Short.

  7. A bit of googling saw the same thing as in the photo advertised as a "BrixMeter" for testing the amount of dissolved solids in fruits and vegetables. (And pee-pee! heh heh)

  8. You can find a refractometer anywhere that deals in saltwater aquariums and supplies.

  9. I know sweet potatoes and yams are ok. I'm hoping taro is too because I like taro. I guess corn is probably good if corn oil is. But I was hoping to see a list of no foods, from "worst" offender on down. Would be strange, after a year of the almighty PO-TAY-TO, which I credit with… well, my problem that was at a peak 3 weeks ago, and is rising up again (if I were male, wink).

    Matt, I had been wondering the same thing as what you commented on the other post – about whether Challen may be the same as other gurus – "if you're not healing, you're not doing it right!" I mean, the problem with people is some things just don't work for everybody. Can you get him to talk about people he hasn't been able to help?

    I've seen plenty of refractometers on Amazon and one guy on ebay saying he's selling a good one for $40. Would be nice to know how cheap you can go.

    How quick does your pee have to make it to testing? Hubby has one at work, but it's a 30 min drive. Only one though, so it would be bad if he borrowed it :). He's a clinical lab scientist – the kind that analyzes pee and blood for "real" (cough cough) doctors, so he's interested in this too. With my strict avoidance of standard health care, and his entrenchment in it, we get into some discussions!

  10. I used a refractometer a few times working with the permaculture folks. We had a great WAPF Chapter leader in Bloomington (Larry Howard) who brought a couple of them in along with some of his grasses (he raises sheep) and produce, as well as produce from other gardeners and from the farmer's market and supermarket. We got the Brix readings of several, and it was real cool to observe to what degree (some) higher Brix correlated with better taste. All had fairly low readings, though, which I understand is highly typical of produce these days. The grower I was with has made a big emphasis of remineralizing his soil, and Larry said he had the highest ratings of any produce he tested.

    Here's a dramatic image of two oak leaves, before and after remineralization: remineralize.org/ images/stories/oakleaves. jpg
    and one of carrots in a garden:
    remineralize.org/ images/stories/ carrots-dh. jpg

    So, I've been on this refractometer bit before all y'all- BOOYAH!

    As for which to get, I haven't bought one myself, but I believe they can be calibrated to different ranges and gradients of precision, so it probably depends on what you're using it for. I'm not sure that one calibrated for produce would work as well for urine or saliva, or for wine and beer making.

    Would love the hear differently (or further clarification from anyone in the know).

  11. I just got my naturethroid in the mail. Hmm, do I take it or go to RBTI? I was thinking as I walked out to the mailbox that I can't take the exhaustion anymore, and there it was, like a sign. Sigh…

  12. Hi Matt,

    Based on my understanding of refractometers, I doubt it's actually measuring urine sugar content. The refractometer measures the total concentration of dissolved substances in a liquid, including but not limited to sugar. That's why in brewing, your brix reading depends on sugar and non-sugar components of the brew (since there is so much sugar relative to other things in that case, the correction factor is small). It's also why you can use a refractometer to measure salinity.

    My understanding is that there is virtually zero glucose in a non-diabetic person's urine no matter what they eat. What the refractometer is measuring is probably other solutes such as urea and minerals, and the concentration of those is mostly a function of how much water you're drinking.

  13. Hey Rob,

    Did you see my P.S. to you?

    Really cool pics! Never seen carrots in a store that look like that. Not even Whole Foods or farmer's markets.

    "I believe they can be calibrated to different ranges and gradients of precision, so it probably depends on what you're using it for. I'm not sure that one calibrated for produce would work as well for urine or saliva, or for wine and beer making."

    This is my understanding as well, but not sure either. I want to know more too… like which one Challen uses.

  14. Lorelei aka Hawaiigirl wrote:

    "I was hoping to see a list of no foods, from "worst" offender on down. Would be strange, after a year of the almighty PO-TAY-TO, which I credit with… well, my problem that was at a peak 3 weeks ago, and is rising up again (if I were male, wink)."


    "With my strict avoidance of standard health care, and his entrenchment in it, we get into some discussions!"

    Sounds like conditions are ripe for some great make-up sex coming up! ;-)

    Yeah, I would like to see a list too. I don't trust any of the ones online.

    That's a tough call on the naturethroid. Since I too choose "self-care" over conventional healthcare, and rarely ever take anything (not even supps), I probably wouldn't take the naturethroid. But I don't have the kind of troubles that you and Kelly are having. But I'm not thrilled about the supplementation part of RBTI either lol! If I were having major issues though, I guess I would try both and see which works best – if at all.

  15. Did indeed AS. Mostly just to avoid adding one more comment to the 200+ floating about, I responded at my fiancee's email address. ;-)

    Living and working in upstate NY, in the Adirondacks these days. Cooked for 200 people a couple weeks ago- getting some serious catering experience in. Other stuff too. Overall, doing just swell. Will send NYC your regards whenever I get back there, though. :-)

  16. Oh okay. I'll reply from my primary gmail address. Copies of all my gmail email are forwarded to my primary. Sometimes I reply from the primary before I realize it and it confuses people lol.

    Good to hear things are going well for ya up there! :-)

  17. How come a comment from Dorie appears in Google Reader but not here?

    Anyway, if Dorie is still around, just wanted to say great comment and ask how you found that you were intolerant to gluten, corn, eggs etc. Was it by process of elimination or some other means?

    Thanks in advance.

  18. I was thinking the same, that there is practically zero glucose in the urine of a non-diabetic… RBTI reeks pseudo-science. Reminds me of the acid/akaline quacks like Robert Young

  19. @Rob A

    So, I've been on this refractometer bit before all y'all- BOOYAH!

    I will forgive you for forgetting that I frequent Matt's combox on occasion. :P

    There is a link in this article I wrote awhile back on my blog for a refractometer: Determining Food Quality – See With The Eyes Of An Insect. It will be sufficient for RBTI style use. No need to spend extra bucks. It will work for produce and your own bodily fluids.

    By the way I recently spent two months in upstate New York (March and April) and since I flew in from Moscow it made for the longest winter of my life. No way I could do that every year, LOL.


    Yes a refractometer measures total dissolved solids although you can find endless debates on the web about this subject as it concerns produce.


    I saw your comment in the last post. Glad someone looks forward to my sometimes rather long missives. ;-)

    Still just enjoying the discussion though. I have a feeling Matt is going to land where I landed in relation to RBTI for humans (well at least close since I am passionate about soil fertility being the ultimate key to solving so much of the dissonance that reverberates in health realms as to the best approach to healing).

    I have said for years that the most important yet neglected chapter in Dr. Weston Price's Nutrition and Physical Degeneration is the chapter Food Is Fabricated Soil Fertility. That insistence led to WAPF discovering the principles of RBTI as they relate to agriculture (not to humans, Sally Fallon is down on Reams in this area because of how he looked, his recommendation of soy for some, and the use of controlled fasting) but that is a story for another time.

  20. Dorie's new comment was posted to previous blogpost. I'm Posting this response to Dorie's new comment here cause already over 200 comments on that blogpost.


    It's really great to hear from someone who has recent experience with RBTI for a significant amount of time. Thanks so much for sharing more info with us!

    Dorie wrote:
    "I do think that some of the protocols of the RBTI have merit, and that the numbers do provide some indication of one's health. But even if the numbers reveal as much as Challen claims, it doesn't mean he has all the answers for correcting the problems he sees."

    That is such a valid point!

    "But individuals are so different, and as sure as one solution will work for one person, it won't work for another. It's a trial and error game as much as any medical treatment is, and rather frustrating when he told me to eat hominy and grits to bring up my potassium, when I know how my body reacts to corn."

    That is another great point. But I wonder if the key there was the quality of the hominy and grits (packaged supermarket food)? And all supermarket food in general, for that matter. And people do differ – also in their eating habits/preferences in food quality. Some eat supermarket food and others eat locally and organically grown foods – even those foods aren't what they used to be – with our current mineral/nutrient-deficient and declining soil, seeds, and starter plants. This is why I'm a bit skeptical that RBTI can work (eating supermarket food) nowadays – as well as it probably did in Reams' day (if it did at all) – back when the general food supply wasn't as deficient as it is now.

    "As far as improvements to the hair loss, restless legs, and UTI, they all improved after I stopped taking his supplements."

    I've been wondering about the quality of the supplements too. I don't like to take supplements and am hesitant about the supplementation part of RBTI. Cause you don't really know what you're taking with any supps. And I would imagine, as with the general food supply, even the quality of supplements were higher back in Reams' day. And I suspect that the need for supplementation wasn't as high then either.

    I'm glad to hear that you are doing much better now. Thanks again for your candid and fair commentary about your RBTI experience. Truly appreciated.

  21. Stephan said,

    Based on my understanding of refractometers, I doubt it's actually measuring urine sugar content. The refractometer measures the total concentration of dissolved substances in a liquid, including but not limited to sugar.

    Precisely! I was hoping somebody else would chip in so I didn't sound like a nitpicking a-hole! That was the point of my original post, but I think I got waaaayyy too technical (the physics nerd in me often gets the better of me, and sometimes gets in the way of effective communication). Sorry for any confusion, Matt, I got too caught up in the details.

    My understanding is that there is virtually zero glucose in a non-diabetic person's urine no matter what they eat. What the refractometer is measuring is probably other solutes such as urea and minerals, and the concentration of those is mostly a function of how much water you're drinking.

    That's my understanding too, and was heavily implied in my original comment on refractometers. I make too many waves around here as it is though, so I was trying to be too subtle.

  22. @Michael

    'I will forgive you for forgetting that I frequent Matt's combox on occasion. :P'

    Touché sir. But it did get you to come comment, so I still win. :-D And for the record, mark me down as one more looking forward to your long missives. Always enjoy them- you keep your readers waiting with bated breath, though, with these long delays between posts. Come on, man- you're killing me!

  23. Hey Michael,

    Still looking forward to your looonger comments on the subject and the story for another time. As you can see, I'm a bit of a looong-winder myself – especially when I'm passionate about what I'm saying. And I enjoy that in others – passion in what they say AND do. The length of what a person has to say matters not to me, so long as they are passionate about it. And those make the best long-reads, to me.

    I can feel the passion behind your writings too, as well as Matt's, and Rob's, and others here :-)

  24. DML,

    No worries. I can only speak for myself but I, for one, didn't take any of your comments that way. I'm glad you make us think critically. And hey, you're passionate about it, right? :-)

  25. So then do you have to pee at precise intervals? Since urine is stored, it wouldn't reflect the minute-by-minute sugar concentration like a blood test. Sorry but I think this is total BS. If you have sugar in your urine, you have bigger problems than you knew!

  26. AS,

    Thanks! Sometimes I think I come on too strong… So it's nice to know at least one person doesn't think that.

    BTW, I always enjoy your comments. And Rob's, and Lorelei's, and …,well, many of the other regular and not-so-regular commentators this blog. You all make me think and bring a unique perspective on the issues. So thank y'all!

  27. Mishkam, I figured out my food intolerances by following the method explained in the book, The Pulse Test: The Secret of Building Your Basic Health by Arthur Fernandez Coca. Search for it on Amazon to see the reviews there, but if you Google it, you can find it in PDF format to download for free.

    This is a brief explanation of it: "The pulse test – during the testing period take your pulse upon waking and before bed. Also, take the pulse before eating every test food. Then after finishing the test food take the pulse in 5 minutes, 15 minutes, 30 minutes, and 1 hour. To take the pulse sit quietly for a few minutes, longer if you have been exerting yourself. Find the pulse on the wrist or neck, and count for a full 60 seconds. A pulse elevation of greater than 10 points from before the test food to any of the other intervals indicates a probable allergy. A waking pulse more than 10 points above the bed time pulse indicates allergy to house dust or inhaled materials, such as dander or molds." from http://dr.michels.com/food_allergy.htm

    I had been having debilitating headaches and brain fog, which is what sent me on the quest for answers. After eliminating the food allergens I discovered from testing my pulse, I found significant relief from the headaches and brain fog. To my surprise, I also found relief from other health and emotional issues as well: fatigue, frequent urination, acne, ice cold feet and hands, lack of motivation, fearfulness, anxiety, paranoia, etc. All my life I'd had an underlying sense of fear, dread, and anxiety, and that all went away. It only comes back if I've accidentally had even in a smidgen of one of my allergens. Discovering what they were and learning how to totally avoid them gave me my life back, and in some ways, gave me quality of life I'd never had before.

  28. Dorie, thanks for adding more. Your comments bring up something I was wondering about with RBTI – how food allergies might affect the whole thing. Would they be on the no list? Are they expected to be "cured" by RBTI? As you said, you were encouraged to eat corn products, amongst other things that affect you. I know I can only eat organic corn in limited quantities (and probably shouldn't even do that, but it's fresh corn season!). At the height of my eczema, I couldn't have eaten any form of corn without my hands getting blistered up. If we took away potatoes and rice, I'm not sure how I'd get all my carbs in. There's only so many sweet potatoes one person can eat!

    Do you think you could ever overcome your allergies, or do you just plan to avoid them?

    We tried the pulse test with each potential allergen in a pure form… and found it varied from day to day. Not only that, but our pulses would often drop after eating. Hey, didn't Matt just do a post on that? Or was that temps? Hmmm. Anyway, didn't work for us. Still, I'm glad you had so much success.

  29. I meant to say, too, it just shows how we really are all different.

  30. Dorie

    Thanks for the explanation. Sounds like an easy an inexpensive method.

    I will certainly be giving it a go :)

  31. Stephan is right, a non-diabetic person should have zero sugar in their urine. If you have sugar in your urine, you are very likely to be in a diabetic condition.

  32. Refractometer Fail

  33. So if the refractometer isn't measuring sugar and just dissolved solids what does that tell us?

    How did reams come to these magical perfect numbers?

    I had hopes for RBTI but so far it seems to be just like every other great dietary discovery(BS). So far we have heard a lot about people who are "nearly healed" and others who supposedly cured cancer. Where are the perfect specimens with perfect numbers in perfect health?

    How is maple syrup any different then honey? What makes grains better then potatoes?

    Is RBTI a scam to get us to buy surplus foods?? Grains, corn oil etc.

    If RBTI is so good why did reams die at 83 overweight?

  34. Quack quack

  35. upon entertaining the notion of corn oil as a health food, i realized my mind had just been blown.

  36. DML,

    I thank you too. It's nice to know that someone enjoys my ramblings lol! :-) I think sometimes people may take my comments (online) the wrong way too, or too firmly. That's the trouble with communicating online–misinterpretation of text and tone. I don't take myself or life too seriously. And over the years I've found some of my viewpoints to be flexible and always changing or expanding — thanks to the viewpoints that others share (here and everywhere I go) — which is why I keep an open mind. I love learning new things. So I love it when people show me/teach me something new — or even make me re-consider something opposed to my own views.

    I just throw my current thoughts (ramblings lol!) – at any given time – into the pot on a particular subject, to offer one more perspective — but always with hope of learning something myself. If we all put our heads together (contribute to and stir up the pot-of-point-of-views, so to speak) we just might get somewhere. Maybe not, or maybe not just yet. But hey it makes for an interesting and entertaining journey (for me anyway), the valuable bits and pieces of which we can each still take away with us for future use and enlightenment, right?

    Anyway, so my mind is open to – and I really enjoy – hearing what everyone has to say. Even, and especially, if their views don't jive with my own (at the moment). I like the way it makes me think outside of my own perspectives (and "outside-the-box"). There have been times where I've been enlightened on the spot (aha! moments), or expanded my views, and even changed my views — where I do a 180 ha!

    And yes, sometimes I learn that I was wrong about something. I've learned a lot about myself and life in general that way. This is why I easily see the value in hearing other people's perspectives. I might not grasp it right away. Sometimes I have delayed enlightenment (that comes with further information), but I am always fascinated by hearing how other people see things and why! :-)

  37. Taylor,

    Is one of your comments missing again? I see the one at 1:19:00 AM MDT (under Mishkam's comment to Dorie) above that starts with "continued from above" but I don't see another one of yours above. Or am I missing something? Anyway, those were really great points and questions in the one I saw above. And I'm really interested in reading the missing one too! :-)


    Good questions.

    And regarding this… "If RBTI is so good why did reams die at 83 overweight?"

    I have wondered about the circumstances of Reams' death myself — and the curious condition of his health at the time of his death.

    Hey, who let the ducks out?! ;-)

  38. crazy crazy crazy quacky quacky….

  39. This is a very difficult topic to write about, and a difficult one for people to understand. So I get where the skepticism and pescimism comes from, but a lot of you are missing the simplicity, as even I sometimes do.

    I am the one with the blood sugar issues that matt is talking about, and I can tell you this. They improved drastically following Challens guidance, and only worsened when I ate something bad, which would show in my numbers. Challen told me I was eating a bad oil. Well it turns out my olive oil was rancid, and once I bought a new bottle, I no longer hit a zero. Amazing as that!!!

    A lot of people, when challen tells them they are doing something wrong, don't want to believe it. They actually fight what the numbers say! But They do show what the body is fighting… That is where you will find people's negative takes. But the truth is, the numbers don't lie. Another thing. I was getting migraines everytime I made pancakes. Well, my numbers showed my flour was rancid. (same as a bad oil)

    THe deal with people getting better, and then going off the program and things coming back. THe issue is they're bodies have gained enough energy that the symptoms are gone, but they have not actually finished fixing what is wrong with them. If you don't actually FIX THE PROBLEM, then you will revert. But the RBTI is designed to FIX THE PROBLEM, so long as you actually do it, and finish.

  40. Reams died of pancreatic cancer among many other things. He knew he had it, and he knew he wasn't goign to be able to fix it. He fought in the war, and was injured. He had schrapnel that was never removed from the pancreas, and so that never healed all the way.

    He was also poisoned in assasination attempts several times throughout his career.

  41. Also, when I was in the hospital and out, I was having seizures and black outs. They would check my bg, but it was 'normal' They had no idea what was happening.

    With the refractometer, I have not had a single black out since I started with Challen. That was happening because my brix reading actually hits a ZERO!!!! For extended periods of time. Eating white sugar when necessary has prevented all the black outs and seizures.

  42. Why would the body excrete sugar into the urine? Urine consists of waste products and its color is mainly based on the hydration of the body.

    And has been said, glucose is normally only excreted in diabetics.

  43. Original RBTIer,

    Thank you. It's good to hear more from you too.

    Can those of you who have experience with RBTI give us more details of it "in practice" — like a typical day of following RBTI guidelines, yes/no foods, and supps? We've heard from people about their results – good and bad – but have heard very little details on RBTI in practice.

    If we knew more about that part of it, it may be easier for us to wrap our heads around the "simplicity" of it. And help us decide if it's doable in practice, a way-of-eating/lifestyle we feel is personally sustainable. Cause honestly, if a person can't continue to follow it, there's no point in pursuing it, buying supplies, etc. Even positive results don't always seem to be a motivator to keep it up — as reportedly, even some who have had good results, quit following it. Some for good and some for a time, then return to it.

    And I also realize that it's highly likely that some that do have negative results, do so because they have a hard time following it 100%. In that case, it doesn't matter if RBTI does work well when followed properly, if a person can't or won't follow it properly.

    So more of those kinds of details would be great to hear! :-)

  44. @Anonymous

    Since you seem to already know everything, perhaps you could explain, if the color of the urine is merely based on hydration, why then can I piss a dark almost brown, and then ten minutes later piss clear, without having had a drink inbetween?


    People have a hard time following it yrs. That is not the problem with rbti, but people want what they want when they want it. Many people simply refuse to give up pork, or chocolate. Or even butter. But it is simple, if you can tell your tongue who's boss.

    I am sure Matt will come with a post about what rbti actually entails. Or you could actually give Challen a call and ask…

  45. People who have positive results quit because they think they feel good, so why continue being on a schedule? Why continue avoiding pork? So they quit before they have actually fixed the issue. And it comes back.

    You see, as you 'gain energy' you stop feeling the symptoms. That doesn't mean you are all better yet, You are still manually controlling the system. You have to continue to the point where the system is strong enough to control itself…

  46. Original: I think the problem some of us have (at least me) is that there is no clear info on the web, especially from Challen and his patients themselves, which in this info age, is disturbing. I would expect to find patients singing praises all over. How come it's almost impossible to find an actual "no foods" list? Even Matt has been reluctant to really get into details, or so it seems. It's like it's a giant secret, which, if this is so great, patients should be wanting to tell all about it. At least, that's the feeling I'm getting. It could just be that I'm anxious to know more because I'm at a point where I NEED something, but like many, am skeptical of spending money on something I can't seem to research for myself ahead of time. I've had enough of throwing my money at doctors and naturopaths and not getting better. For me at least, that's why I keep asking for details. And asking Challen is like asking Monsanto if their products are safe. I'd expect a biased answer…

  47. And from what I do know of RBTI, it seems to diverge dramatically from all the alternative health folks out there, rather than have some convergence. If Matt gives this a seal of approval, this is way more of a 180 than sugar bad to sugar good! At least in my mind.

  48. @Lorelei

    You are absolutely right. You will not find much on the web. As Matt will soon realize, there is not enough time in lifetime to write all the explanation for the equation. You have to do it to understand it. To 'see.'

    I can relate to the money spending thing. 100 grand in debt in medical bills and was dying at 24 anyway.

    People do talk about it. It's been a word of mouth thing. Thats how I heard about it. The reason is because you can't write an explntion, but people see their friends getting well, and they want the same. I have had several people here start.

  49. Tayler

    I had cancer. I hve ultrasounds of the tumors. I could feel them. They are gone now.

  50. To all of you who demand 'proof,' You'll never get it. Not from anyone. And Challen will not argue it. 95 percent of people turn away. It's how it is. Doesn't matter that people's cancer goes away. They still will think they want a chcolate bar, and they will quit. Challen knows this, and he won't waste his time 'chasing' people.

    You have to DO IT to 'see.'

  51. Original: So, how long have you been doing RBTI? Does this list of no foods get shorter with time? One of Matt's main tenets is that you should be able to eat pretty much anything if you're healthy. Do you think he'll be changing his mind?

  52. The caveat is 'if you're healthy.' Most people will not spend the time to get healthy. THey just do it till the symptoms go away.

    I cannot predict what Matt will do. I just hope he is not one of the 95 percent.

    The no foods are no foods. It's just that the healthier you are the less affect they have. But if you continually eat, say shrimp, you will not stay healthy. You will lose a little bit of energy every time

  53. Ditto what Lorelei said.

    Original RBTIer,

    Thanks for the response. I totally get that about why people quit following it when they think they are healed. But I guess my point was… Why would a person want to quit at all? Even once they are healed? I would think of it as a lifelong way of eating – at least once you find your sweet spot (get fixed?) – why not keep eating the way that keeps you in the good range? And why not continue to avoid the foods that throw you out of balance? At least that's the way I would approach it personally. So that is what I was wondering about. Do people "want" to quit because it's too restrictive, rigid, etc., to do lifelong? Anyway, my point was, if it's not something people in general are willing to follow lifelong (even with great results), then what's the point in doing it at all, I guess?

    And I would like to know if following it is something that I personally feel would be too difficult to do for myself. And I don't want to spend a bunch of money and time to find out – when a few simple general details could tell me.

    BTW, I feel like I would be one for which it would be pretty easy to follow, cause food is just food to me, for the most part. I just eat when I'm hungry and get back to my life. And it's easy for me to stick to foods that keep me feeling "good" and balanced (emotionally & physically) — eating intuitively. Of course, I enjoy the occasional entertaining dinner in or out with friends, etc. But I don't have food issues/addictions. So it would be relatively easy for me, I think, to be fine with eating whatever foods that work for me on the RBTI protocol.

    However, I like things to be simple. I don't like complicated. I don't do counting, weighing, measuring food, or rigid schedules, etc. So some general details about the protocol in practice would be nice to know is all :-)

    Thanks again for all your comments. And I hope you'll continue to keep us posted on your experience with it.

  54. I appreciate all the thoughtful comments and folks weighing in on this.

    Soil mineralization is obviously a significant thing to pay attention to. I'm intrigued by how the shortcomings in food from it are being attempted to be mapped on to the body.

    Given Stephan's explanation of the refractometer, I'm even more curious about how it all works. I notice that Matt never mentioned sugar in the urine, I think he said 'carbohydrate.' I know that sugar in the urine attracting ants was an old-world old-style diagnostic for diabetes…

  55. To the forum ~

    I have been repeatedly attempting to post a response, with various formatting to account for automatic spam filtering. I have tried removing URLs, with no success.

    Many times my posts have 'stuck', only to disappear a couple minutes later.

    I do not know if this is a function of keyword flags, moderation, or something else in Google's/Blogger's algorithm.

    This is a test to see whether or not I am able to post a comment.


  56. @Matt

    You should seriously consider removing the anonymous button.


    Why do multiple versions of your posts keep showing up?

    @Rob A

    Working with sick people who haven't responded to anything or anyone else on the web and running a blog aren't necessarily compatible, but I'm working on it. :P

    It is even more difficult when working on an in-home basis, because then I am often dealing with someone knocking on death's door. But between travel and consulting I'm learning to balance it all and you should notice a uptick in the frequency of posts sooner rather than later.

    Also, a couple of them will be very controversial, so I want to make sure I get them right.


    Kisses! :-)

    And a word of note regarding the paucity of Reams material that is available. This is one of the great weaknesses of RBTI applied to humans. It leaves us at the mercy of those who were his students as to what Reams actually taught, though Reams did indicate who he thought should pass on the torch.

    I think it is a sad commentary that Reams didn't even begin to prepare for his departure from this life until the last year or two of his life, even though he had a very young wife and a one year old baby. That probably was an unfortunate reflection of his Adventist worldview.

    On the other hand, clearly RBTI didn't hurt his libido. :-)

  57. @Taylor

    Your responses are definitely coming through multiple times via email even if they are not showing up on the forum.

  58. Michael ~

    See my comment above. I have been repeatedly trying to post a response (multi-part, in order) which seems to be getting filtered out automatically as spam.

    Folks here have informed me that sometimes including recognizable links will get flagged as spam, so I have been trying to remove them without losing sources, as well as removing possible keyword triggers.

    It seems that my posts will show up in part, then half will disappear. They may be showing up in the comment RSS feed, but they are not 'sticking' on the website.

    I agree, removing the Anonymous button would help with the trolling.

    Thanks for reading along.


  59. @ Michael,

    I hear you amigo, and respect your due diligence both to your clients and your readers. Just want you to know, you got some fans awaiting. :-D

  60. Michael ~

    Oh, bugger. Thanks for letting me know! I apologize for any email overload I may have caused.

    I'll look into how I can continue the discussion without spamming as blocked reposts. I'm interested in sharing verified information and research findings (lots of links!), which seems to be incompatible with the current filter system.


  61. @AS

    People quit because they think they can just avoid chocolate for 6 months and be fine. No not when you have cancer. It can take years to completely heal. That's why people quit.

    THere is not too much to it. Eat three meals a day. Carb heavy breakfast, biggest meal at lunch with meat, light dinner. A salad and a vegetable.

    Drink your lemonade and water every half hour for 8 hours.

    That's pretty much it. Oh and avoid the no foods which are

    white flour
    White sugar,
    white rice,
    Nuts, (Except boiled peanuts and coconut),
    Whole milk (includes 1% and 2% Drink skim)
    Black pepper,
    White pepper,
    White potatoes
    Pork(includes bacon, sausage, ham, etc)
    Shell fish ie clams Shrimp, crab
    Skin Fish,( fish that has a skin rather than scales) ie Tuna, Marlin, Mahi Mahi, shark etc.

    Now there is a hierarchy of baddies. pork shellfish and undercooked or raw meats are the worst. You don't want to go anywhere near those. Chocolate is bad. Kills the kidneys.

    Some of the others, we avoid. Not never eat. White sugar I happen to use every day. But that is for a specific purpose with my blood sugar. i use whole sugars in cooking. The reason we avoid salt, is it's in everything! We don't need more, and when you are weak, you can't clear the excess.

  62. Michael,

    Thanks for that tidbit. I so agree. Very unfortunate the state of the legacy he left behind…

    "I think it is a sad commentary that Reams didn't even begin to prepare for his departure from this life until the last year or two of his life, even though he had a very young wife and a one year old baby. That probably was an unfortunate reflection of his Adventist worldview.

    On the other hand, clearly RBTI didn't hurt his libido. :-)"

    Very nice observation! Definitely one typical of myself to make ;-)
    I bet he died with a smile on his face!

    XXOO :-)

  63. Follows is actual transcript from when Matt first beheld the refractometer:

    Matt: What is it?

    Challan: Your father's refractometer. This is the weapon of an RBTI Knight. Not as clumsy or as random as a glucose test.

    Matt: *bwmmmmmm*

    Challan: An elegant weapon for a more civilized time.


  64. For me, this will be life long. It's not a matter of how long it takes. I will never go back to eating pork, or chocolate. It's not worth it to me. Besides, RBTI is such normal yummy food anyone can pick up right out of the grocery store. It's not hard to follow at all! Anyone can do it. Its just that some people value a cocoa rush more than they value feeling like Challen does. Good all the time.

    I have come to know Challen very well, and several people he has worked with. I am quite impressed with his 'balanced' lifestyle, and health. I want that for me and my family, and chocolate (or pork for that matter) is just not tempting enough to give up this 'schedule.' Three meals a day is the norm after all. We have just gotten away from reality in this day and age.

    Oh, the supps. We do take a calcium which corelates with the urine ph reading. Mincol and a specific kelp. Vit e to help te dead cells expell. Vit c IF it is needed.

    No more. Anymore and you hurt yourself.

  65. Brock,
    Quack Quack mothafu**a

  66. Hey Original RBTIer,

    Just saw your new comment. Thanks so much for those details. That is a huge help. I really appreciate it!!

    Me love you long time :-)

  67. as far as supplements go, i've always been weary of taking too many. when i started seeing my ND, i eventually made it close to 8 different supps a day. i'm down to just 2 (vitC & calc/mag). she, however, takes up to 17 pills with each meal plus other daily supplements. she has been doing this for over 10yrs now and is in perfect health.

    ohhh, the wonder of it all! :)

  68. Michael, I look forward to your insights and posts based on real-world experience too.

    AS–enjoying you as always, RobA too.

    Taylor/Hobson–I notice that when posts don't 'stick' on the blog page, they still come through to email. When someone posts multiple times because it isn't 'sticking,' I forgive them and just read the first time. I wish we could figure out why it does that and stop it, though.

    Original RBTI-er–thanks for chiming in: you're making it sound much simpler and less esoteric.

  69. Off topic here, but is there a way to read comments on the Kindle, and not just the article… or has this been brought up before?

  70. Orig RBTIer,

    Just saw your follow up comment… very well said! That would be my approach to it as well and for the same reasons. I agree. I value my health and quality of life (and libido!) over ANY food. I will even give up sushi if I need to. No big deal. I like the raw fish variety – so double whammy with the white rice AND the raw fish.

    I'm personally not a chocolate person. But I wonder what it is about it that is so bad? Does anyone know? Must not be the caffeine cause coffee isn't on the "no" list, right?

    Well, thanks to you, I am much more curious to see how Matt's experiment goes now. It looks doable for me, personally. So if Matt has good results with it, I just may give it a try.

    I still want to hear Michael's input on it… and others' too, of course! :-)

    Even though I feel good and healthy, for the most part, I know there is still room for improvement. Plus I like the "why guess when you can know" aspect of it. And there are people that I care about who need help – after conventional medicine has failed them. So that's a big reason why I'm on this health mission. If this has the potential to help them, I will be happy to be their guinea pig! :-)

    Thank you… again!

  71. Original, thanks for more info!

    I guess the list brings up one of my original questions again – native Hawaiians thrived on a diet of pig and (often raw) "skinned" fish and shellfish. And some of those "healthy" Japanese groups base their diet on rice and pig and raw fish. Can this list be ethnically biased, I wonder. I suspect all the original testing was done on haoles (whites).

    I'm just trying to figure out how these pieces of info can be reconciled. In my mind, it gives a theory more credence when you can tie in to others (convergence!).

    I might be one of those willing to risk it all for chocolate… it is my one and only addiction. Don't drink, smoke, toke, gamble, watch porn, etc… sigh. I've been thru many food phases and given up completely opposite things over the last few years with no problem… but they have always included chocolate in some form. Maybe raw cacao is the answer… who is that, Wolfe?

  72. AS–interesting question on the chocolate, and I share your curiosity as to "why."

    Here's my recent interesting chocolate snippet: although my ND says that I really shouldn't eat chocolate, and although ordinarily I find it extremely easy to give up just about any food, I used to have intense chocolate cravings very often, and would eat some dark chocolate on occasion (surely partly peer pressure–everyone around me adores chocolate and my husband likes it when I eat some too).

    BUT–ever since I've increased carb and cut fat, my craving for chocolate has pretty much vanished. Also, whenever I eat it, I notice the instant 'anxious, overstimulated' feeling more vividly than I notice the deliciousness, and am generally concluding that it's not worth it, just like Orig. RBTI-er. I thought that was pretty cool, that it just went away like that. Right now, I'm eating basically no fat, and there are some indications that that's too extreme. I'm wondering whether the choc craving will come back at some point, and help me figure out the 'sweet spot' of fat consumption.

  73. Does no butter mean no cream? Cause Pippa eats ice cream. We eat plenty of ice cream (homemade, raw milk, yadda yadda). And, of course, chocolate.

  74. THis is the problem. People want to know everything, and you can't know it all from my explanation. I can't tell you how the numbers move, but if you do it, you see. You will SEE why chocolate is a no food. You will SEE why raw fish is bad where cooked is wonderful. I CAN'T TELL YOU. I know, that is the hardest part to get. But once you do it, you would understand what I am saying.

    Look at it this way. It's like trying to describe the taste of salt to someone who has never tasted salt.

    It is a very simple program to do. It is what i laid out. That's it. The point is to eat a wide variety of foods.

    Butter is a no food, cream is ok. The point is we cannot digest the fat, especially when we are weak. The body can deal with a little, but not when everything is smothered in it. A bowl of ice cream is ok. Butter on everything plus whole milk, your getting loaded at that point, with saturated fat. It's unnecessary, and in many cases detrimental. Especially where you and I are physically.

    Sushi would actually be my weakpoint as well. I love eel. And I grew up on pork liver and schnitzel as my fam hails from europe. But I will never so much as think about it again. When my mom saw me getting better she started asking questions. I told her about pork. She was so OFFENDED saying europeans have always eaten pork and are healthy, blah blah. I laughed and brought up several family members who have all these little problems, and horrible teeth, just like so many people who 'feel fine.' She thought for a minute about that, and has since not eaten pork.

    Try it. Challen may have a client in your area who can test. If not, it's definitely worth the 400 for the test kit. I've tested friends and they have since invested in their own nkits.

    It's easy and leaves you open to so much variety. I mean, you can even have ranch dressing from the grocery store, and see that your numbers are still getting better. Feel yourself getting better. Have some waffles, vaarious veggies cooked in fun ways. Have a friggin sandwich just for simplicity sake.

    Real food. Easy food.

    It's not that complicated to do, just to explain.

  75. Ela,

    Thank you, sweets! You know I love ya too! :-)

    Interesting about your chocolate experiences. I have had similar happen with coffee. I've never been a big coffee drinker or anything, but I do enjoy the taste of a cup of coffee. I used to have just 1 cup in the morning (and maybe 1 here and there with friends). But I recently just spontaneously stopped. Maybe it's the summer heat.

    Anyway, in the past I've gone through phases like that where I will go for long periods without even thinking about coffee. Then when I would have a cup, I would get that "anxious over-stimulation" feeling too (I hate that feeling!). Yep, even though I like the taste of coffee, just not worth it. So I would not drink the rest and not want it again for a long time. And there have been many times where I thought I wanted a cup of coffee, but then after 2 or 3 sips, I wouldn't want anymore.

    Okay, I gotta get off of here and go play! My head is spinning lol!

  76. Thank you Original RBTIer!
    All of this information is SO helpful, I'm thinking I may ante up and just go for the home test kit. My whole family needs it, not just me. We're just testing out right now, no chocolate in the house for 30 days. That is a BIG deal for us, we eat lots of chocolate and love it, all 4 of my kids love chocolate. But dang, if it's keeping us from getting healthy and feeling well, it's gotta go. And bacon, butter and potatoes, oh my, those are going to be hard to let go. But I really want to feel good all of the time and not be constantly worrying about my kids health issues.

  77. PART 2, to MATT (Part 1 has been filter-blocked and is available here.)

    And the most convincing things I've seen are real clients who have seen their cancer come and go depending upon whether or not they were adhering to Challen's advice,

    Those would be impressive results. The first questions that come up are:
    - Were they first diagnosed with cancer by a doctor, another practitioner, or by Challen himself?
    - Have you spoken with these cases, or heard about/looked at files secondhand?
    - Can the cases you've seen be verified through third-party evidence such as changes in scans or blood test results, or are they anecdotal?
    - Were they undergoing any other treatment or protocols in conjunction with RBTI?
    - Does Challen have enough of a sample pool to account for spontaneous remission, if you were to do an analysis?
    - Does Challen acknowledge that spontaneous remission exists?

    several people who went from having numbers all over the place to having them very tight around the ideal

    This brings up a very important question, which you might want to ask Challen: Is it true that sometimes, having "perfect numbers" means you're close to death?

    (This is repeated by Reams and throughout the RBTI material, even by practitioners who otherwise contradict each other.)

    Challen is 5'8" with crooked teeth and a bunch of fillings and his two sons are 6'2" None of them have had braces or cavities. They look truly amazing. The youngest girl has perfect teeth and looks like she is nearly 6 feet tall.

    Yes, most of us do take notice of tall, pretty people with nice teeth. Shout-out to good old W.A. Price. :-) There are a lot of confounding factors there that can't be verified, though–from the genetics of his wife and both their parents, to his younger physical traits, to what his kids will look like when they're his age, to the presence of simply good nutrition irrespective of "the numbers".

    (And of course, that old stickler: luck of the draw. Nutritional eugenics aside, some people are just born hale and good-looking.)

    Related to my previous questions and comments — do you know how to set up a double-blind trial?


  78. Taylor

    I don't think anyone is out to prove anything. RBTI is different than the rest of what you find on the inyernet. It doesn't boast and no one is out to prove anything. You can take it or leave it…

  79. Mishkam-

    Potatoes and rice are not recommended. You can eat some, but not a lot. Brown rice is fine. All other starches are okay. The dude eats waffles with syrup for breakfast.

    Hawaii Girl-

    2 hours from peeing to testing is the maximum


    That's what I thought too. But the onset of hypoglycemic symptoms and a drop below 1.0 of the urine reading is perfectly correlated.


    You measure the mineral salts and urea in the RBTI testing as well. And glucose is only 1 type of sugar, which was a point Reams made when insisting on doing the testing of all dissolved sugars using the refractometer. The bottom line is that the urine refractometer reading coincides very well with the onset of hypoglycemia symptoms. Someone just texted me for example as their reading dropped from 2.5 to 1.0 after a vodka tonic. Alcohol has always been recognized as a primary trigger of hypoglycemia (dating all the way back to the work of Seale Harris in the 1930's).

  80. What kind of flour is in his waffles if white flour is on the NO NO list?

    I have an aunt who lived to be 102 and her sister lived to 93…both ate pork, white flour, salt, pepper, potatoes, etc.(lots of pasta) It all seems like such a crap shoot. My mother in law is going on 93 and is still healthy eating a 'normal' diet without giving up pork etc. I am pretty sure she's only eaten white bread all her life as well as white potatoes, white rice, and sugar.

    But then again my mother ate all those foods too and died of cancer at 52.

    I suppose if one is truly ill it might be worth trying RBTI. I am still interested…but skeptical. Curious about what my numbers would be…but so far…not enough to buy the $400 kit.


  81. And I still don't see the difference between the no butter, no whole milk, no white sugar, but someone is advised to eat ice cream every day…what is ice cream but cream, milk, and sugar…butter being made from cream. A bowl of ice cream would be a lot more cream than a little butter spread on a piece of toast or put on some veggies.

    Stephan has told us that corn oil is probably one of the worst oils, sourdough is probably better…and RBTI says the opposite. My head is spinning here.


  82. Lucy, I agree totally about head spinning! There are two explanations in my mind -

    1) There may or may not be a perfect diet for all people, but everytime you switch your diet, you correct some imbalance of your previous diet, leading to feeling better (at least for awhile) and fixing some problems (while possibly creating new ones).

    2) People are just different, and what works for some will not work for others. Plain and simple.

    Either way, how can one guru heal people with low starch because that's hard to digest (GAPS), another low muscle meat because that's hard to digest (Peat), another low fat (Reams). Then there's tryptophan is the devil (Peat) versus tryptophan is all you need (the Mood Cure). How about cure diabetes the Furman way versus the Atkins way. And yet you find people who are "cured" with each of these methods.

    And then there's the guy who only eats McDonalds and is healthier than me. It's enough to just make you give up.

  83. Taylor-

    Yes, this person sought standard medical care and had chemotherapy twice., was diagnosed and treated before seeing Challen the first time, etc.

    Yes, although I did not see the scans the woman had and told me that tumors previously there and confirmed were now totally absent.

    Challen claims to have alleviated and regenerated many things that are considered impossible. Like re-growing bone, palette expansion at the age of 57, eyesight improvement, regeneration of heart muscle, restoring a gallbladder running at 5% to 95% (based on medical assessment of gallbladder function), numerous cases of rapid remission of cancer. I haven't seen enough to be convinced of anything. I am convinced, like I said, that there is something of value taking place here. Talked to a woman today who has had debilitating migraines for 20 years, and hasn't had one since starting with Challen. She has been migraine free for 6 months and had spent tens of thousands of dollars on medical treatments that didn't give her the slightest bit of relief.

    These are very passionate people telling these stories and giving these testimonials. Of course, the failures don't call up to say that they died, and that Challen couldn't do a thing to help them. I understand that. But I've seen enough to stick around for a while. I'm not an idiot. I know bullshit when I see it. There is a lot of error here (like Challen thinking a refractometer only measures dissolved sugars, when you can raise the refractometer reading of distilled water by adding sea salt), and inflated claims, but it's not all bullshit.

    And heredity just the luck of the draw? I don't think so. Making kids is not Yahtzee, offspring are a perfect representation of the health of their parents and the food supply they are reared on. I said "reared on."


    Challen was talking today about making Carob milkshakes. He sells carob candies in his office and stuff. Kinda old school, but substituting a carob milkshake for chocolate is like substituting an underwear model for my left hand.

    Which brings up an interesting aside…

    What do West Virginians do on Halloween?

    Pump kin


    Just heard a story of a woman who worked with Challen, and, like many people, would not give up her butter because she was a WAPF devotee and refused to believe that it wasn't healthy. Challen repeatedly looked at her numbers and told her "you must be eating coconut oil or buttter or something" to which she denied. But as Challen says, "the numbers never lie."

    Then she switched to you and ate tons of butter with glee and slowly deteriorated. Then she returned to Challen and got her ass chewed out (politely) and told that she can't continue to do the program halfway and be disappointed in the results. So she finally gave up the butter and, like every person I've personally spoken to who has worked with Challen since he finally figured out how to play the game (post 2005)… magic.

    Challen's program is a healing system, and it clearly works for some people at least in the short-term, to overcome barriers that they might not have overcome otherwise. Squabbles about what Polynesians ate are completely unrelated as far as I'm concerned.

    It's similar to the Tarahumara argument. Yeah, they can run 100 miles and be pretty healthy. That doesn't mean that running 100 miles can help to make a sick person well. If it was as simple as just eating wholesome foods, I wouldn't have spent an hour and a half talking on the phone with a half-decade WAPF devotee with a 6-month old baby that is covered in eczema and takes less than one dump a week.

  84. Hawaii Girl-

    Some people can get away with more than others. That's the basic premise of the RBTI. Challen couldn't just eat whatever and not get seriously ill. He produced children much healthier than himself and they can get away with practically anything like many could several generations ago like Trix just described. Yet, those who were eating those foods had children that were less healthy than they were. To me, this is stronger evidence that the older generations had a diet that sucked than living to 102 is a sign that their diet was superior. Signs of a crappy diet take a really long time to emerge.

    It's what your parents ate and what you ate during the developmental phase of your life that counts the most. I'd say 70% is your parents and juvenile diet, and 30% your adult diet, if that even. But RBTI assumes that all disease stems from a poor mineral supply, which gets lower and lower with each generation of refined-food eaters. And the program is designed to correct that problem in a precise and well-calculated manner.


    Looks like I'm bagging my trip to Hawaii and driving to Florida instead. I'm planning on letting one person in Sarasota test herself as well as a guy in Louisville on my way down. I can add you to my list if you are curious. That way we can call your numbers in to Challen and you can hear his assessment of your numbers without taking a $500 leap of faith on something that sounds f'ing ridiculous.

    So just let me know.

  85. Matt–vicariously sorry that you're not going to HI, but it brings a tear to my eye that you're meeting up with folks and sharing this so that they needn't take a leap of faith. I love this 'groundswell' work.

    Love your analogy about trading carob for chocolate: I hate that equation too, because I think carob is perfectly good, and gets a terrible rap from people who think it's supposed to be a chocolate substitute. It's an entirely different thing.

  86. Matt, you suck – you're supposed to come here and test me instead. Play favorites why don't you!

    I get it's a healing protocol. Don't remind me about my fetal diet cause I'm definitely SOL and my kids are 2xSOL. Great, now the guilt trip along with the confusion :).

    Good testimonial about the butter. So many of us believe in WAP-style nutrient density (if not WAPF) that it's really hard to accept that store ranch could be ok and butter not. Am I understanding my bff coconut oil is out too?

    Matt made a funny about WVians.

  87. @Matt

    Then she switched to you and ate tons of butter with glee and slowly deteriorated.

    Switched to me?

    I have never worked with anyone who has previously worked with Challen or any other RBTI practitioner for that matter. In fact I'm 100% sure that I have never worked with anyone who even knew what RBTI was until I mentioned it. And I have never recommended to any client that they eat "tons of butter."

    So whoever she switched to it wasn't me. Perhaps there is another Michael in this long thread whose comment I missed.

  88. Hi Matt,

    For a while I've been loving (organic) butter and coconut oil along with (Grass fed) raw, whole milk kefir, but my waist did expand a bit over the last few months of pretty plentiful milk fat consumption…

    I could try raw skim milk for kefir (slim chance I would ever give up kefir…), but then what do I cook in? Corn oil??? (gaahhh)

    Right now I use butter for morning eggs and coconut oil for anything high temp.

    The idea that Challen is pro-PUFA is pretty hard to swallow.

    I've been enjoying the discussions so far. Great group of blog participants.


  89. A quick question – So if Challen himself (and most likely his family) couldn't continually stick to the diet 100% over the years and if he has only found "the one true diet" since 2005, how then can he credit his perfectly formed and healthy offspring to RBTI? Am I missing something?

  90. Oh and Trix, he makes pancakes with buckwheat flour and eats multi-grain waffles.

    You can eat dairy fat, just not tons of it.

    My eating today…

    Breakfast: Roasted yam with sour cream, 2 clementines, 2 eggs fried overeasy in olive oil

    Lunch: Small salad with olive oil and balsamic, Beef pot roast with roasted carrots, onions, and sweet potato covered in a sea of delicious gravy. 12 ounces skim milk. 1 scoop coffee ice cream

    Dinner: Rye toast drowned by asparagus soup. 10 ounces skim milk

    The enjoyability of the food is not the issue with RBTI. The main issue is the ritualistic drinking of the water and lemonade, consistent meal time, light, meat-free dinner, no sugar after 2pm unless your refractometer reading is low, and, up there with the water and lemonade ritual, avoidance of pork.

    The avoidance of pork is the big one, because it goes far beyond just avoiding ribs, sausage, pepperoni pizza, and bacon.

  91. Randomly checked my blood sugar a few days ago at night — my fasted level was 115 mg/dl.

    I remember a few times when I was feeling really messed up I tested my blood sugar and it was high. Other times it was around 90 mg/dl, which should be normal — but I was so confused about this. I didn't understand how I would be having hypoglycemia symptoms but having a high blood sugar.

    I'll need to read over this more. I actually feel like garbage right now XD This would explain a lot.

    This post has been a godsend for me. Thanks a million for sharing this. I'm into guitar repairs and having the right tools is the first step – so this whole diagnosis/dialing in what's wrong thing is really fascinating to me. A refractometer might be a good investment to make, but I'll definitely be reading a lot more before I consider getting one.

    Thanks again. Fucking love this blog.

  92. Michael-

    Sorry dude. I had just read a comment by you when the person told me "Michael." So I got it in my head wrong because of that. But it was Oltza not you. Sorry your dudeness. You owe me one kick in the nuts the next time you see me. Hard as you like.

  93. asparagus soup sounds goooo-oooood!

  94. Cameron-

    Pro Pufa is hard to swallow. I use olive oil but probably won't be able to bring myself to buy corn oil. Challen also says that slow forms of deterioration are the hardest to see in the numbers, because the slower the progression of the disease, the less it shows up in the numbers. Pufa damage fits this bill.


    I love you too.


    He did stick to the general dietary guidelines. But he didn't know how to keep his numbers in line, or get them back anywhere near where they were when he was younger (like when his kids were conceived). The things he has learned have come in the form of some very hard lessons.

    He did control the diet of his children more or less 100% until they were young adoloscents. Only one of his kids really shares the passion for RBTI that he does. He has a very successful chiropractic business in Arizona I believe.


    Were you continually taking calcium lactate and pushing your pH's too low? Did you work with Challen before 2005? Were you lax about some of the more far-out recommendations? Were you taking other supplements with gelatin capsules? Love having you share here. It's awesome. Keep it up!

  95. Matt (not me lol!) wrote:

    "What do West Virginians do on Halloween?

    Pump kin"


    Oh my gawd lol! Did you hear that or was that yours?

    So are you left-handed? ;-)

    Hey, I thought coconut oil was okay? Is is just coconut, but not coconut oil, that's okay??

    Oh and can you stop here in Atlanta too on your way to Florida? I'll meet ya at an exit on I-75 with my urine and saliva for a drive-by testing? lol! :-)

  96. I can see trouble in the general guidelines for us in the form of a) no nightly dessert b) no big meal at night and a large meal in the morning – which does not fit into our normal lifestyle. And of course the chocolate. Carob give my kids headaches.

    Has Challen found any "rules" which Reams did not have?

  97. man, i had a whole comment written and then second guessed myself and deleted it. it would have fit right in and matt might have even answered my questions!

    so what if your 6yo kid *loves* pork products as in his first word was "sausage" and he's been eating sausage, pepperoni pizza, hot dogs (the best brands i can find, no doubt)etc since he was about 15 months…am i killing him slowly?? i personally don't like pork and only rarely eat it. i used to choke down bacon b/c i was told i needed it, but gag me. if a person didn't have their numbers tested but just avoided the no-foods, would they be healthy, or get healthier? what will pork really do to someone or is it that it will take so many years to show up…

    i completely agree that a person's health has everything to do with what their mother and grandmother ate and what the person was fed as a baby. but most people think that's nuts and that maybe only a few things like alcohol or white sugar affect a baby. you should see the difference b/t my two. maybe i should have my oldest's numbers read to see if we can change his narrowness and help him get meat on his bones–matt, will you make a trip to los angeles pretty please? :) my second seems to have a much wider palette and sturdier frame, but i was super WAPF mommy at that time. or so i thought, haha.

    one thing i don't get about the no-foods list is that it seems kind of random. and why skim milk when we all know that skim milk is a by-product and our ancestors didn't drink it. what about cheese? why pepper? i love pepper. but i wouldn't consider myself "addicted" to anything. i could do without chocolate.

    matt, we need more informative posts. :)

  98. Matt, unless your specified serving of yam, sweet potato and rye toast actually hides a big plural number, that seems like a pretty low-carb diet, and fairly low in overall calories too. You no longer believe in mega-high carb intakes and very frequent feedings as key to minimizing stress and optimizing health? If you're feeling better, maybe it simply has to do with not continuously saturating your system with sugar and giving your reward system a chance to recover?

  99. so what's a fairly cheap, good source of minerals? blackstrap molasses? I'd love to give this a long term shot.


  100. "Looks like I'm bagging my trip to Hawaii and driving to Florida instead."

    Dude, Matt! When will you drive to Florida? Because you more or less would have to pass Greensboro anyways.

  101. Thanks for posting your meals for the day Matt.

    Would be great if you could do that every day :)

  102. How have we skirted around the glaring fact that a refractometer does not test for sugar in the urine?

  103. Matt asked:

    Were you continually taking calcium lactate and pushing your pH's too low? Did you work with Challen before 2005? Were you lax about some of the more far-out recommendations? Were you taking other supplements with gelatin capsules?

    Okay, so now you're doing the "you must not have done the program right" thing. :) Nevertheless, I can see why you're asking these questions and my answer is "no" to all of them. I followed the program to a "T" and yes, it was since 2005.

  104. Theoretically, one could construct a Macrobiotic diet, exchanging nuts for animal proteins, avoiding potatoes & tea, and be in the same ballpark as the RBTI ideals.

    Just thinking out loud…

  105. Michael wrote:

    And a word of note regarding the paucity of Reams material that is available. This is one of the great weaknesses of RBTI applied to humans. It leaves us at the mercy of those who were his students as to what Reams actually taught, though Reams did indicate who he thought should pass on the torch.

    And Challen wasn't one of them, and yet he claims to be one of the only ones, if not the only one, who understands the RBTI like Reams did. Not that I necessarily doubt that any more than anyone else who claims that, but but how is one to know who to consult with/learn from, if indeed we believe at all that God gave a man who is now dead from pancreatic cancer the keys to perfect health to begin with? The whole thing just seems like a huge house of cards, with each card leaning against another shaky card, each with questionable merit. If something should happen to Challen, for instance, all these people who rely on him to tell him what their numbers say, what happens to them? Challen is only one man, mortal at that. Are we to believe that he and he only has acquired Reams' keys to perfect health?

    The whole thing seems rather cult-like. We're roped in by the phrase, "Why guess when you can be sure?" – of course we all want that. Then we're told to forget everything we've ever learned about nutrition and health, and just do what our RBTI consultant tells us to do, and we'll get well. After all, GOD gave this formula to Dr. Reams. Why should we question God, of all things? Several years later and hundreds if not thousands of dollars poorer, we either keep soldiering on despite our continued ill health, not wanting to admit we've been duped, or, we come to the painful realization that we've just wasted years and money on something that claimed to be the end all/be all of good health, and it isn't.

    The lack of testimonials of individuals who are in good health and have done the RBTI for years and years, OTHER than RBTI consultants who are making money from doing it, is quite revealing in my book. Where are all these individuals of glowing good health if the RBTI has been around since the 1970s, is so simple to follow, and the results are phenomenal?

  106. Matt, could you perhaps do a post explaining a bit more about the rules and such of RBTI? I understand you’re still reserving judgement about wether or not it’s useful for people to “get into”, but as a blog follower I’m left wondering about just what it IS that Challen’s doing (apart from measuring pee). Someone listed a no list, which for me only raises questions. No butter and whole milk? Does that mean yoghurt and cheese are fine? No salt and pepper? Sound rather extreme. No tea, but coffee is fine? Did that refer to just black tea, all real tea, or any kind of tea? (And as an aside: AAARGH, another tater hater.) And some rules you alluded to in the comments: no sugar after 2 pm? Does that the mean the sugar that was already on the no list, or not even a piece of fruit? Is the lemonade the exception then? It all seems so arbitrary and whimsical. I’m trying to understand it, but it’s so much like loose sand.

  107. Matt ~

    Thanks for your response.

    To clarify — the poster in this forum signed as 'Original RBTIer' has identified themselves as the example (hypoglycemic/person who first brought RBTI & Challen to your attention) that you're referring to in this article.

    Can you confirm?


  108. Still catching up on the comments but got to give a shout out to Michael for his comment. It jibes very well with what I was picking up about RBTI and how it correlates with Weston A. Price's work.

    I'm glad to see I picked up the same underlying message from NAPD, as I stated in my comment in the previous article. In fact, if I were to summarize NAPD in one sentence for, it would be "Food is Fabricated Soil Fertility".

    So I know this guy who's been working an internship on a farm in central Minnesota. He's now renting land to do his own CSA. A while back they had the Brix of produce grown there tested. Highest Brix measurement any of us had seen.

    So I'm interested in RBTI as a direct carry-over of the principles in NAPD to measurement of human health. I share Stephen's concern though that applying the refractometer to urine samples may not work analogously to agriculture. I don't know enough of the science there but Stephen's critique makes a lot of sense.

    I wonder what Michael's thoughts are and why he didn't just spit them out. Maybe he does if I get caught up on the comments.

  109. I'll take you up on your offer to test.


  110. I still need to understand why good wholesome foods that people have eaten for hundreds (thousands) of years is not good for us.

    I wonder if some No Foods are on the list only because of how modern-day people with our crappy bodies respond to them, rather than being universally bad.

    Or maybe it actually is about ethnicity: some people groups can handle some foods but others can't?

    Also, about food allergies, I can maybe swallow that some foods are universally bad for us, but it's hard for me to believe that most Americans have permanent allergies to normal foods like dairy, gluten, nuts, etc. So I still use food allergies as a sign of lingering bad health.

    The applied kinesiologist/chiro I started seeing 2 years ago (when things got so bad I had to abandon WAPF/NT) taught me to do the pulse test, since she suspected food allergies for my digestive issues and weight gain. I reacted poorly to almost everything I ate: garlic powder, sour cream, nuts, mayo, gluten, black pepper, eggs, buckwheat…The list got longer every time I did the pulse test and she confirmed it with muscle testing.

    I still think that poor health causes the digestive problems, because how could our bodies seriously not be made to eat most foods?

    I don't mind the idea of avoiding what you're allergic to while you heal, but saying that to have good health you must permanently avoid certain foods doesn't answer the question: what's the problem in the first place? It seems like just another way of treating symptoms.

    I was also wondering what Challen thinks of HFCS. It's not on the no list, but is it just a given?

  111. Matt, a straight line shot from Wheeling to Sarasota passes through Jacksonville. Just sayin'.

  112. I don´t understand why people think the no foods for Matt are the no food for everyone. What Matt eats is for restoring his numbers not yours. In my personal experience I been keeping a food journal for about 4 years,looking for changes such as facial changes, skin texture,hair,sleep, bowel movements, etc. For me that kind of information was/is the only thing that has improved my health dramaticaly,for example I can see see facial changes,like puffiness, dark circles,pale skin, etc when "bad foods" are ingested and glowing skin, bright eyes, more curly eye lashes(I know..but I swear),zero puffiness when I eat "good foods". It took me 4 years to reach that level.All I can say (and many others will agree)is that food is SO personal that talking about good vs bad foods is pure nonsense. Coconut destroys me, as well as certain legumes, quinoa, brown rice,oats,broccoli,sweet potatoes some fish. On the other hand I thrived on white rice esp.basmati, eggs,chicken,mussels,oysters,white fish,goat cheese.
    I dont know what to think about RBTI, its interesting that Matt is experimenting, thats the only way to reach knowledge, but I encouraged people to really build their own nutrition based on their own personal and HONEST experience.
    Sorry for any mispelling, english aint my motherfker language.

    Continue with you RBTI experiment Matt, its quite refreshing to see something else than HCLF,HFLC,paleo, etc..



  113. to the person/s wondering about a good source of minerals: i can't stand maple syrup or molasses, but i have been using palm/coconut sugar for a few weeks now and the stuff is amazing! it's marketed by different names, but i believe it's pretty much all the same. it claims to be raw and evaporated at low temps and from the sap of the coconut tree. rich in amino acids, minerals, b-vitamins and nearly neutral ph. if that means anything. i use it in my cappuccinos and my kids love it on oatmeal.

  114. Dorie,

    I have the same kinds of questions and concerns too. And please know that your input is very appreciated. Please don't think that we are explaining your disappointing experience away as being your own lack of proper adherence to the protocol. Well, I can only speak for myself – so at least I'm not anyway – only trying to get some details, answers (if that's even possible!), and pondering possibilities from those who have experience with it.

    For me personally, even if it does work (or rather if it ever 'did' work back in Reams' day), I am still skeptical that it can still work as well, if at all, with today's deficient (and much of it toxic) food and soil.

    The idea that you can heal the body with food and avoidance of certain foods (as opposed to medicine)… that is to say, with sufficient nutrients, minerals, energy, and proper assimilation of them all from the food we eat… makes perfect sense to me. And I wholeheartedly believe that's true. But I just find it hard to believe that the body can be healed with most supermarket food and man-made supplements – nowadays.

    Case in point and assuming RBTI worked in the past… Challen said to eat hominy and grits to bring up your potassium – and that didn't work for you. Well, I can only assume the hominy and grits were from a supermarket – which are highly likely not only devoid of their natural potassium after all the processing, but probably no longer contain much (if any) other sufficient nutrients/minerals that the body can actually assimilate. Just something to consider.

    I believe our deficient and ever-declining soil — thus the lack of sufficient nutrients, minerals, energy, and proper assimilation of them all from the food we eat — coupled with the replacement of such food for processed (deficient, plus toxic) supermarket food — are the main causes of disease, poor health, and obesity – nowadays.

    Anyway, I agree with Aaron… that "Food is Fabricated Soil Fertility."

    And I too am eagerly awaiting, with bated breath (wink!), Michael's thoughts/conclusions of his experience with RBTI. In addition to his upcoming "very controversial" writings that he mentioned earlier! :-)

  115. Some really good points and questions this morning from Anonymous, Kelly, Marco, and others…

    I would like to know what Challens says about HFCS too. I would guess if supermarket food is okay according to him, he thinks it's not a problem (ranch dressing?!), since HFCS is in just about everything in the supermarket these days.

    I too understood the "no sugar after 2pm" thing to be specific to Matt and his current numbers – because of all the bananas/fruit he used to eat?? I'm guessing that eating no sugar after 2pm is supposed to help bring his numbers closer to the best range. But I am curious about the answer to whether no sugar (in that case) includes fruit.

    Anyway, despite my skepticism, I'm still very interested in the outcome of Matt's experiment with RBTI — and hopeful. I agree with Marco… it's refreshing to explore something radically different!

  116. Dorie, can't you test all the numbers now that you feel so much better to see if the numbers really are better?

    I finally finished reading Bieler's book, and came away feeling discouraged because I know of no doctors like him. He knew what to test for to tweak an individual diet. So hearing about these RBTI tests, and how it is more individual makes sense.

  117. The no foods are across the board. Dorie, I don't know who you are, or how you did your rbti experience, but I can promise you that it works if done right. A bit ago, something happened to pull me out of range a (healing range) My sugars started crashing like crazy, worse than before, and it was happening everyday. I was not eating anything new, or any of the no foods.

    Challen kept telling me there was a bad oil in my diet. The only oil I was using was olive. After a few weeks of going backwords, I got up in the middle of the night to research rancid olive oil. It just popped into my head. Sure enough, my oil smelled a little 'off.' At three am I went to the store and bought a new bottle. Things started turning around the next day. I ran my numbers 6 days later, and gave them to challen. He said "you ate a bad oil six days ago." THat was the last day I ate the olive oil.

    Now, with fresh oil, my sugars are back up, and i am healing again.

    If that is not exact, I don't know what is.

  118. It doesn't matter who you are, the no foods are no foods. I reccomend everyone read Reams' book "Choose Life Or Death."

    Reams himself didn't want to believe pork was bad all around. He spent zeven years studying it. Pigs raised free range, pigs raised clean, pigs raised filthy. It's all the same. He tells the story. And that book will answer a lot of your questions….

  119. Original RBTIer,
    I'm gonna go out on a limb and guess you are Erika, you said "Dorie, I don't know who you are, or how you did your rbti experience, but I can promise you that it works if done right" that is bullshit, you CANNOT PROMISE or guarantee or anything of that sort that RBTI is the real deal true godsend thing and in my opinion it's really offensive for you to say what you did to Dorie who was just sharing her experience with RBTI.

    You have even said yourself that you are STILL healing so if it's working for you, GREAT, but that is in no way proof that RBTI is the only true thing and that all those foods on the "no list" ALWAYS affect EVERYBODY negatively. I'm trying very hard to keep an open mind about RBTI but so far Taylor's well thought out post have me very skeptical of the RBTI and the supposedly amazing experiences by two people (who aren't even completely cured [whatever cured means] yet) are just not enough to promise anything.

    Anyways, i'm done rambling, my main point is that, could RBTI be the real deal? Yes, it has the possibility of being the real deal although It seems to get weirder/crazier by the second, but you cannot guarantee that it is.

  120. I'm particularly interested in the distilled water/lemon juice thing. It's pretty standard on any detox diet, but also the alkaline diet and Jillian Michaels is into it, too, for weight loss. I wonder about the hard facts. People always think you'll die from drinking distilled water ("It'll leach the minerals from your bones!"). After reading "Bottlemania" by Elizabeth Royt I think distilled water may be the only sort of safe choice. (Dirty water, processed up to 18 times at your local water plant, piped through dirty, leaching pipes… and bottled water isn't any better) And what is the benefit of lemon juice? Vitamin C, potassium, and it's alkalizing effect?

  121. @ Kelly,

    You're right: most Americans aren't allergic to gluten, nuts, etc. About 1-3% of adults have a food allergy, a little less than 1% have celiac disease. Up to 8% of kids have a food allergy.

    Food allergies aren't a sign of lingering bad health. They're a sign of allergy. I've raised my kids (now three years old) in a dietary and "lifestyle" environment that I think Matt Stone, Stephan Guyenet, and possibly Weston A. Price himself would approve of, but one still has two major food allergies and celiac disease. When she doesn't have eggs, nuts, or gluten, she's ridiculously healthy. Notably, my other kid does not have these problems. They're fraternal twins.

    The cause is genes + environment, but a triggering environment can't be construed as being as simple as "unhealthy." Too hygienic an environment – this means Western society in general, not one family's housekeeping (ours is certainly not "too clean") – might be one cause. According to recent research, exclusive breastfeeding to six months also might contribute to developing these problems.

    But exclusive breastfeeding to six months was the "best practice" – particularly for kids at risk of food allergy (meaning both parents have allergies) – only three years ago. Now it's thought by some researchers that early introduction of small amounts of premasticated food to a young nursing infant might help prevent food allergies and celiac disease. This is a common practice is several traditional cultures.

    The upside to allergies, including food allergies, is that having them seems to be related to a reduced risk of cancer. The theory is that an overactive immune system not only overreacts to allergens, but also is vigilant when it comes to cancer. If that's the trade-off, I'll take it. (Untreated celiac disease, however, will predispose you to certain cancers, probably because of chronic inflammation.)

    I think that demonstrates that allergies can't be reduced to being a sign of underlying poor health, but represent a genetic predisposition that evolutionarily probably had certain costs and benefits. You want your immune system to be pretty damned vigilant, but not overly so. Some people's immune systems are tipped one way and some the other.

  122. I have no experience with RBTI, but I found some information on the lemon water that both Matt and OriginalRBTI-er mentioned.

    According to Carey Reams and Alexander F. Beddoe (author of Biological Ionization as Applied to Human Nutrition) fresh lemon is the only anionic whole food.

    This article says:
    "Reams tested foods to see which ones might alleviate this cationic imbalance. The only anionic food in hundreds and hundreds tested turned out to be fresh squeezed lemon juice. Since water commonly had a wide variety of cationic minerals in it the only water he found that was essentially cation free was distilled water. So for a while he operated a clinic that monitored fasting on distilled water with a little fresh squeezed lemon juice in it. This went a long ways towards balancing electrical charge, restoring health and arresting aging with many people."

    This article says:
    Even though the pH [of lemon] is "acid" per Beddoe's definition in the previous paragraph, according to Dr. Reams it is really "alkaline" seeing that acid and alkaline to him refer to the charge and spinning direction of the ions that make up the substance.

    This article explains that lemon water (with no sugar or sweetener) has an alkalinizing effect on the body.

    This site says:
    "To metabolise our food, we need to produce anionic foods that balance the cationic foods we eat. Otherwise we can't get any friction and thus no energy out of our food. This is where the liver fits in. The liver produces huge amounts of bile to aid in the digestion of the food, but more important to balance the cations in the food with the anions in the bile. Besides that, the liver produces about 6 billion enzymes, which are used by the organs in our body. Let's take the pancreas as an example. The pancreas produces primarily three things: Insulin, alcohol and pancreatic enzymes that metabolise protein. Where does the pancreas get its input ? From the liver enzymes. Without the correct amount of liver enzymes, the pancreas can't do its job. Result: Diabetes (insulin), cold hands and feet (alcohol) and cancer (digestive enzymes). When any organ in your body is malfunctioning, you should always look at the liver first. If the liver was running at 100%, it would supply the right enzymes to all organs, so that the organs can heal themselves."

    The above site also describes a lemon water protocol for healing the liver:
    "The liver regeneration protocol is quite simple. Feed it the only anionic food available on this planet: The lemon. Use a neutral non-anionic, non-cationic liquid as a medium: Distilled water fits in perfectly. The protocol is as follows: Make fresh lemon juice and add 9 parts of distilled water to the 1 part of juice … [Drink] four ounces of the lemon-water solution each hour and four ounces of plain distilled water take on the half hour."

  123. @ Kelly,

    Thinking about the issue a little more, your experience with food allergies sound more like intolerances. I would agree with you that those could be simply a sign of poor underlying health. If you have an IgE-mediated food allergy, the symptoms are usually pretty urgent. They can include throwing up and diarrhea, but also hives, lip, tongue, and throat swelling, sudden loss of blood pressure, and asthma. If any two organ systems are involved, it's anaphylaxis.

    I'd take the muscle strength test with a huge grain of salt. In fact, I wouldn't take it at all.

  124. A bit ago, something happened to pull me out of range a (healing range) My sugars started crashing like crazy, worse than before, and it was happening everyday. I was not eating anything new, or any of the no foods.

    Now, with fresh oil, my sugars are back up, and i am healing again.

    That sounds a little off to me.
    When you say your sugar started crashing like crazy, does that relate to the sugar levels measured by the refractometer or to your actual experience?
    If it's the latter, then that would make me a bit skeptical. After all, if you sugar levels got even worse than before when you weren't even differing that much from the recommended diet, then how can you say you are really healing? If that were the case shouldn't your reaction to any of the no foods or any stressor in general get better with time?

    Don't get me wrong, I am not necessarily suggesting that you aren't healing or are getting worse or whatever, I cannot possibly judge that anyways. I just wanted to point that out, because it seemed a little contradictory to me.

  125. Helen,

    I understand that allergies are mysterious, which is why I wonder about them so much. My experience is that about 25% of the people I know have been diagnosed with some sort of food allergy, but it seems to be increasing. Most are also discovering that as they eliminate those foods, they become allergic to more foods.

    This could completely not be the case for the majority, but it's the case for my own circle of friends and acquaintances.

    I'm open to the fact that we're "made" this way: that we are allergic to gluten, dairy, eggs and nuts, but I don't think it's a given, and worth pause.

    Why are those foods around in the first place (if not to feed us)? Why are some nourished by them and others not? Why do some only develop allergies once their health declines? Why have allergies become so prevalent as refined foods have become the norm? Were there common food allergies pre-industrialized society?

    I don't think it's simple, but my own experiences make me think that there's something not right about it.

    Oh, and that's very interesting about babies who are exclusively nursed. My first baby was nursed exclusively and was not allowed any grains until 1 year. He now has allergies (indoor and outdoor). My second was exclusively nursed for 6 months but continued to nurse for most of her calories until a year, but I chewed food for her and gave it to her from early on (since she showed some interested). She doesn't have any health issues that I know of.

    That could mean nothing, of course, but it's still interesting!

  126. One of my previously mentioned sites was quoting from some book called The Curse Causeless Shall Not Come [PDF] by Nord Davis that cites info from Reams & RBTI:

    "If the pancreas does not produce enough of the special kind of alcohol the person has cold hands and feet most of the time. If severe enough, he may be cold all over at all times and in all seasons."

    Cold hands and feet was one of the things that started me on this crazy nutrition trip. Does anybody know what the heck this guy is talking about as far as the pancreas producing an alcohol like substance that keeps hands and feet warm?

    This book has some wacky stuff in it, but also some interesting stuff:

    "It just so happens that anionic lemon juice, mixed 4 ounces to 36 ounces of distilled water, is the natural base for the 6 billion different kinds of liver enzymes needed for every organ and gland in the body! The liver and the lemon are sweethearts. They are natural lovers. Four ounces of the above solution of lemon and water taken every hour, and four ounces of distilled water taken on the half hour, is just the right combination and concentration to flush and rebuild the liver faster than any other known method."

    "But, you say, most people never drink lemon juice, so how in the world can they stay healthy? If you have had a proper diet and you continue with one, you will never need the juice of the lemon. While lemon is the only known anionic food, calcium and potassium are the needed anionic minerals. Now, do you see why foods high in these organic minerals must be eaten regularly? You must get plenty of the various organic calcium’s into the body or you will not get the natural anionic-cationic resistance needed to produce energy."

  127. MadMUHHH

    Sugars crashing is both experience and refractometer.

    Also, my PH's kept moving, where they normally hadn't.

    Worse than before because before I was not eating anything 'harmful' when I was using the oil it was every day.

    Yes, you get better with time. And you can be exposed to a no food, and not have what I had happen occur. But I was using it everyday, several times. That causes a problem that just gets worse. Make sense? There was no break in the bombardment.

    I had no idea olive oil could go bad. now I do.

  128. Rosenfelt

    Yes the no foods affect everyone negatively. But a person at an 80 percent energy the affect will not be as pronounced or even felt. Someone at a 30 percetn will feel like hell.

    Reams himself was a doubter too. Read his book.

  129. The Curse Causeless Shall Not Come [PDF] on cancer:

    "What is the very first thing that happens when there is a mineral deficiency in the body? I hear a spectrum of answers from doctors and others who are reading this. Laboratory tests show that the very first thing that happens, the very beginning of illness of any kind, is the breakdown of the liver. The liver's function is to produce some six billion different kinds of enzymes. It is these enzymes from the liver that supply the "raw materials" used by the various organs and glands. Then these organs and glands add to these enzymes certain minerals and thus produce their own output to perform certain body functions.

    Take for instance the problem of cancer. Why does a loss of energy cause cancer? It has been said that cancer is caused by the body failing to digest, or more properly, metabolize proteins taken into the body. Yes, that is true, but why? It is because the pancreas is not producing the special enzymes needed to metabolize the protein.

    If there are not enough of the pancreatic enzymes, that person will develop carcinoma and cancer. Cancer patients need more of these enzymes or they must reduce their protein intake. What is the Medical world and the shallow health nuts telling you night and day?. Eat proteins! Eat proteins as they are the building blocks of the body, etc. True, but what if that person has a pancreas that is not producing? Are you getting a hunch as to why cancer is growing so fast in America? Do you honestly believe that no physician in his hospital or College laboratory has figured out what you have just learned? Of course they have! Cancer, dear reader, is good business.

    How about the rebound thought of taking less protein as an answer to cancer? Yes, you will find those who propose this as a solution-cut the protein to match the output of the pancreas. One man's answer, among other things, is to not eat meat after the noon meal. No, that is not the answer to a sluggish pancreas. The solution is to get the pancreas to produce what is needed regardless of how much protein you eat.

    Look closely at this concept, for herein lies the key to cancer and almost every other "incurable" disease. The beginning of illness, ALL ILLNESS, is the breakdown of the liver. Our project, then, is rather simply stated: Rebuild the liver! Get it going again at 100% output, if possible. Once that happens, its enzymes are sent all over the body and all kinds of' troubles begin to disappear. Once that happens, there is suddenly enough anionic liver bile to handle the volume of cationic foods that are eaten. Just imagine a liver sending out 100% to the pancreas. What happens to that diabetic? He no longer needs his daily dose of insulin, does he? No, for his pancreas is now making enough to handle his sugar. And what about the cancer patient? Digestion of proteins is no longer a problem and, quietly, his cancer begins to be thrown out of his body."

  130. The Curse Causeless Shall Not Come [PDF] on white sugar:

    "I believe one of the major hidden causes of sickness is the use of white sugar. Some of you have heard this before, but you do not know the reason. White sugar depletes the calcium from the body, because it turns most easily into alcohol. Alcohol is the greatest enemy of calcium in the body chemistry. Now do you see the ionization connection between the high consumption of white sugar and cancer? Does white sugar cause cancer and other diseases? No, but it does drive out the anionic calcium that you are trying to accumulate from the foods, thus shifting the body chemistry enough so that proteins are not digested. If this goes on long enough, you will begin to lose energy and start to get sick. The shift in body chemistry can cause a host of problems, of which cancer is only one. For instance, it has never been known for a person who has sufficient calcium and whose blood sugar is not above normal, to come down with polio. Did I say that the white sugar in cookies was the cause of polio? No. But it does drive out calcium and if that person happens to be a borderline diabetic – Wham: Polio!"

  131. The Curse Causeless Shall Not Come [PDF] on water:

    "Now, let's examine another very important subject when it comes to health: WATER. Our bodies are composed of some 80% water. Most of us do not drink enough water to maintain our health. The MD's tell you that you should drink a quart a day. That advice is guaranteed to keep you their regular patient — unless you weigh less than 65 lbs. What is the proper amount of water per day? You must drink one ounce of water for every two pounds of body weight. Suppose you weigh 180 lbs. Divide 180 by 2 which equals 90. Drink 90 ounces of water every day. That is nearly three quarts, and most Americans do not even drink one quart unless they are doing heavy work.

    Is it any wonder that they have all sorts of aches and pains and many develop serious diseases? Ignoring all other things that I have stated thus far, I doubt that you can find a cancer patient or an arthritis patient who drinks the proper amount of water. Water keeps the toxins flushed out of the body; it keeps the digestive tract operating; and it keeps the colon moving. I low do you expect to get the proper ionization of the stomach, so that the cations and anions can create energy, if you do not provide them the water in which to ionize? Is there anything hard about that?

    Now let's really think about water for a minute. All water initially starts as rain water and is cationic in nature. As this cationic water hits the earth and passes through it, what happens? Its ions come into contact with and will surround some anionic ions to draw mineral molecules into the water. Most of these will be inorganic calcium’s and potassium’s. When you get enough of these molecules in the water, you notice that the water is "hard."

    While your body does need organic calcium's, it cannot assimilate, to any great extent, the inorganic calcium and potassium minerals as are found in wells, springs, and municipal water supplies. Most of these minerals are passed on out of the body, but some of them get involved in the anion-cation exchange and do get sloughed off into the joints and build up deposits there. Are you now beginning to see the BIOLOGICAL THEORY OF IONIZATION as applied to arthritis?

    Now, what do you suppose would happen if you drank the correct amount of cationic distilled water in which the ions are still free to pick up the anionic calcium ions? The distilled water ions will pull the offending calcium out of the body. You will get as much correct advice about distilled water from the Arthritis Foundation as you do about white sugar from* the Polio Foundation: None!! "

  132. The Curse Causeless [PDF] on heart attacks:

    "The last part of this equation is the reading of the cationic nitrate nitrogen on the top and the anionic ammoniacal nitrogen on the bottom. Why are we interested in this? It is the level of undigested proteins in the body chemistry. What did we say that cancer was? It is the failure of the body to digest proteins. What caused this? An insufficient quantity of pancreatic enzymes. And what reduced the output of the pancreas in most cases? A sluggish liver. And what causes the liver to produce? Anionic substances taken regularly in the diet. Now do you see the value of this urea test?

    This test is extremely important for cancer patients. The normal reading for a healthy person is 3 over 3, or a total of 6. As cancer gets worse, or for some other reason the energy from the resistance between anions and rations is reduced, more and more undigested proteins are thrown off. If the total of these two numbers reaches 20, the heart beats too hard all day long. 20 was my first reading total and it was what was tiring me out- the heart over- working all day and night. Now couple this with a high salt too, and you can see why I was in a major heart attack range.

    By the time this total reaches 27 or 28, the person may suddenly start into a pectoris heart attack. What is the only cause of a pectoris heart attack? Too high a level of undigested proteins. What happens when you push a high protein diet on a person who may have cancer or a sluggish liver? You kill him by driving the undigested protein level into the fatal heart attack zone. Now do you see the reason for "unexplained" heart attacks among school children during athletics? Now do you see the "unexplained" cause of "crib deaths?" Check the urea level and you will always find it around 30. The poor little baby's heart was pounding away so hard that it just couldn't take it anymore.

    By the way, a thrombosis is an angina and a pectoris heart attack happening at the same time. So what is the cause of heart attacks, especially among those who have no history of "heart condition?" To much salt and/or too much undigested protein in the body chemistry. HEART ATTACKS CAN BE STOPPED IN 60 DAYS ANYTIME THE MEDICAL PROFESSION, THE SO-CALLED HEART FUND, OR THE PEOPLE WANT IT THAT WAY! But my observation is that heart patients earn a lot of money for the (un) American Medical Association, and the threat of a sudden heart attack sells a whole lot of life insurance policies."

  133. Sirch

    Interestingly, and you can look this up. Doctors used to think it was icecream that caused polio. This they thought because poilio cases rose in the summer and correlated with the rise in sales of ice cream…

    Google it. Pretty crazy.

  134. AS ~

    Thanks for your response. You've brought up many thought-provoking points.

    I appreciate the effort and your conviction.

    I appreciate your posts as well. Thus far, the only "conviction" (definition: 'a firmly held belief or opinion') I have is this: That the details surrounding RBTI need to be shared and thoroughly explored, and the methods Matt is using to decide whether it "works" need to be clarified.

    To that end, I am asking questions, pointing out information that would otherwise be unexamined/unknown, and trying to understand Matt's process of investigation.

    I am not calling for the dismissal of RBTI.

    But, like Matt said, my interest is not in character judgment of Reams or Challen or anyone else associated with RBTI.

    This is not my interest either. I have not referred to Reams' or Challen's character, details of their personal lives, or called for any moral judgments.

    Because, again, if RBTI works, then none of that matters.

    I will repeat the same question I asked Matt, Lorelei and others: What does "working" mean? How is healing measured — by a verified tumor disappearing, with scans to show? A change in blood test results? A consistently trackable change in temperature? A generalized feeling?

    I'm not asking these questions rhetorically. I would truly like to know.

    That's why I decided to stop poking around myself, for now, and just see how Matt's experiment goes.

    This is not the first time you've mentioned your choice to willfully ignore available information. Earlier, you brought up that you got "turned off" by what you read about RBTI, and the many contradictions therein, and that you "need to stop investigating and leave that to Matt." While this shows great confidence in Matt and perhaps a hopeful feeling about RBTI and Challen, it's not a very investigatory stance.

    In my experience, determining the validity of a health protocol is not a spectator sport. I choose not to stop looking.

    That pdf I posted was something I found from my past RBTI research. And I didn't say anything about that source being unbiased. Heck, all sources are biased in some way.

    There are many excellent sources of unbiased information that offer balanced viewpoints, references, and full disclosure. Making the statement above is an excellent way to dismiss bias and conflict of interest, though.

    (continued below)

  135. Curse Causeless on salt & the third number of the RBTI health equation:

    The third number is the salt level of the body chemistry. Mine was 27C. The normal is 6C to 7C and is the measurement of every kind of salt, not just the sodium salts. Why are we interested in the salt level? Salt, organic as well as inorganic, causes the water in the body to become an electrolyte and to conduct the minute electrical charges in the body. Too much salt magnetizes or over-ionizes the nerves of the stomach and may be the primary cause of ulcers. Salt also over-ionizes the food causing it to cling to the walls of the colon. Too much salt is the only cause of angina heart conditions.

    Yes, that is right: An angina heart attack cannot happen if the salt level is kept at normal. When the salt reading gets above 20C the heart will be beating too hard and when it gets to 40C, it will tear your ears out if listening through a stethoscope. But you cannot see angina. However, you can see certain indications of too much salt by burst blood vessels in the face and varicose veins. How do you correct this problem? Drink the prescribed amount of water! If that does not cure the problem, you will have to go easy on every kind of salt – including the so-called "salt substitutes."

  136. Curse Causeless on the fourth number of the RBTI health equation:

    "The fourth number is the albumin count – the number of minute particles in the urine. We are not concerned about the color here; i.e. the shade of yellow. But as you hold a bottle of urine up to the light, do you see a sort of cloudy mass that swirls around? If you can very easily see such a mass, or there seem to be particles all through the urine, your albumin count is more than 4 million particles per liter and is marked as 4M in the equation.

    The urine of a healthy person should be a clear yellow color with few visible particles that can be clearly and easily seen. If you see these particles, it means that there is trouble somewhere. These are the release of either carcinoma cells or dead cells and only 40,000 per liter per 100 lbs. of body weight is normal. This is the only part of the above equation the average person can check at home without chemicals or instruments. If you see these particles, you had better find out what the rest of the equation is as soon as possible."

  137. The Curse Causeless on the pH of urine & saliva:

    "But in reality, the cause of any illness, including cancer, is the improper balance between the anions and cations necessary to produce energy. Remember, any day that you do not produce more energy than your body consumes, that day is the first day of your illness, regardless of how well you might feel!

    Well, how can we know from day to day how we are doing with this anion/cation balance? You will not find one doctor in a million who can tell you. In fact all that I am saying here is new to most of them, regardless of the healing art that they follow. Really, the answer is quite simple: Measure the pH of both the urine and the saliva.

    Both should read a pH of 6.40 if you are getting the maximum energy out of the food that you are eating. Any deviation from that reading, either higher or lower, is a sharp loss of energy. If the pH remains off from this norm of 6.40 for any length of time, that person is sick!

    Remember, any time there is a loss of energy, there you will find sickness. No exceptions! Now, can you imagine my problem with a urine pH of 5.80 and a saliva pH of 8.00? The urine was far too acid and the saliva far too alkaline. Does it really matter what illness I have? Does naming the illness correct the pH problem and cure the malady? Then what does help cure the problems? For one thing, getting the pH back to 6.40 and holding it there will surely help!

    Suppose you knew which foods and minerals were anionic and which were cationic – the shift would be rather easy wouldn't it? Just consider this: All foods, except freshly squeezed lemon juice, happen to be cationic. The liver bile as it enters the duodenum to make digestion possible happens to be anionic. Suppose the liver only produced 40% of the bile needed. What do you suppose would happen to the pH and the energy generated from the food? Furthermore, calcium is the one mineral that the body needs – more by weight and volume than any other – and it happens also to be anionic. Suppose you do not get the calcium that you need – what happens to the energy created? Doesn't it kind of make you wonder when the Medical doctors stress iron, which is cationic, when most people desperately need anionic calcium? Am I beginning to make my point? How do you know if the energy produced from your food is low? Check the pH. Again, CAUSE AND EFFECT! The Curse causeless shall not come."

  138. (continued from above, Re: AS)

    But it being associated with Reams doesn't make it less credible nor untrue.

    Credible: 'able to be believed, convincing, capable of persuading'.

    If you have been persuaded by 'The Curse Causeless Shall Not Come', then that is your personal conclusion. Neither you nor I can make that decision for anyone else.

    Understanding the specific background facts associated may help someone in their decision-making process to that end.

    Also, many activists and those who offer better "alternatives" for health care, find themselves having never-ending "issues with the law" and harassed by the authorities (FDA, AMA, etc.) – when the "livelihoods" of those in positions of authority are negatively impacted by those activists and alternatives. Which, BTW, was the point in why I pasted the Forward above. Everything is not as it appears.

    This is a huge generalization with no supporting references, tinged with an appeal to paranoia. If you would like to explore and discuss the possibility of a vast, overarching conspiracy as it pertains to the FDA or AMA, there are many forums elsewhere available to do so. I find the issue an important one, myself.

    Please recall that Reams attempted to become a MD (and presented himself as one), and thus become a member of the AMA, throughout his life. He obviously wanted to become a member of the so-called 'authority' club. He voluntarily chose to join the army and fight for his country, and his medical bills and living expenses afterwards as a veteran were paid for by the very same government he claimed was out to get him.

    Claiming a martyred, 'renegade' underdog status would have proved very lucrative for Reams, however–this is what's known in sales as the secrecy pitch. ("You shouldn't really have something this good — 'they' don't want you to have it!") It also offers an excellent excuse for Reams and RBTI practitioners as to why their method and products have no evidence trails behind them, or clinical trials associated with them.

    Lastly, many 2-year-olds and cancer patients of all ages die under the care of 'licensed' medical professionals.

    I am not interested in the success or failure of other licensed or unlicensed medical professionals. Let's focus on the subject at hand.

    All the while, these medical professionals know of less toxic treatments — even cures — which they don't tell these patients about. And yet they don't get convicted of felonies when these patients die – every day, year after year.

    Again, this is a huge generalization you're stating as fact, with an appeal to paranoia. I appreciate your enthusiasm for the subject, but these statements are red herrings and distract from the current discussion.

    Have you watched the Burzynski Movie at (…)?

    I have now read the entirety of the movie's transcript, as I found the overdramatic sound effects and imagery to be distracting from the information. It would be excellent fodder to discuss in a relevant forum.

    But, gotta say it again, if RBTI works, none of this matters.

    Again, I ask the question: What does "works" mean?


  139. On the "No Food" Pork:

    Nourishing Traditions, Sally Fallon:

    "Investigation into the effects of pork consumption on blood chemistry has revealed serious changes for several hours after pork is consumed*. The pork used was organic, free of trichinosis, so the changes that occurred in the blood were due to some other factor, possibly a protein unique to pork. In the laboratory, pork is one of the best mediums for feeding the growth of cancer cells. The prohibitions against pork found in the Bible and the Koran thus may derive from something other than a concern for parasite contamination. However, in fairness it must be noted that many groups noted for longevity, such as the inhabitants of Soviet Georgia and Okinawa, consume pork meat and lard in their diet on a daily basis. (p. 32)"

    *Adamson, R H, Cancer Prevention, Nov 1990, 1-7; Bjeldanes, LF, et al, Journal of Agriculture and Food Chemistry, 1983, 31:18-21.

    "According to the macrobiotic system … pork is the most yang food. (p. 61)"

  140. Thank you Sirch for all of your effort in finding this great information! Very interesting!

  141. Matt,how you feeling since you started?I would think that you will start to feel excellent if you really are getting the body into its optimal state.I will watch for your comments as this is very interesting stuff.

  142. I would like to address the content in this blog post.

    The man in the video above is Michael Olszta, a RBTI practitioner and teacher whose website is one of the largest repositories of RBTI teaching materials (all expensive), testing equipment and related supplements.

    The video above is only a partial clip–the other one available on his Youtube account is the important "disclaimer" which comes before the test. You can view it here:

    youtu DOT be/3-m7nGgNYqQ

    Note the specific phrases: "choice" and "assumes no responsbility". These are very careful legal maneuvers, included in many RBTI teaching materials and mentioned by Reams himself.

    What this means is that, in undertaking care or advice from a RBTI practitioner, you are absolving them of responsibility if anything bad happens.

    Possible examples: If you happen to have a severe citrus allergy, but continue to drink lemon water every half hour in order to "cure" an ailment, the practitioner will not be liable for any damage that occurs.
    If you have celiac disease but are told to eat wheat bread to adjust your numbers, he will not be liable for the gastrointestinal damage or further required care that occurs.
    If you are diabetic and remove yourself from insulin at his recommendation, and have an accident or worse as a result, it's not his problem.
    If you avoid cancer therapies at his recommendation and believe you are cancer-free according to "the numbers", then die from tumor complications, he cannot be held legally responsible.

    This type of disclaimer, which you would likely be required to sign when entering practice with any serious RBTI practitioner, is not for the interest of the person being counseled. It is for the protection of the practitioner if anything goes wrong. A 'patient' is signing over their rights and their health.

    Recall the claims made by RBTI — that it can cure cancer, shrink tumors, predict heart attacks, reverse diabetes, and so on. This disclaimer is in direct conflict with the promise of "Why guess, when you can be sure?" RBTI, it appears, is sure only up until something goes irreparably wrong — after that, according to this disclaimer, it will be your fault. It was, after all, your choice.

    On an observant note, it appears that Mr. Olszta can't bring himself to look the camera in the eye when making statements such as "not meant to diagnose or treat any illness".

    Does this look like a man who is telling the truth?

  143. Taylor,

    You have brought up some good questions and points as well. Thank you for your input. We differ on some things, that I will leave be, and we can agree to disagree. And I think you took some of what I said a little too literally but I appreciate your thoughts nonetheless.

    When I said that I was going to quit investigating myself, I meant poking around on the internet and so on, as clearly it's all confusing, contradictory, yes biased, and even whacky. I would rather rely on real life experience of people I trust, like Matt, Michael, and others.

    So when I said I was going to leave that to Matt, I just meant that I will remain curious about and will stay tuned to his RBTI experiment. Not that I'm going to literally let Matt decide for me. While yes I do have great confidence that Matt is not an idiot, nor am I, even Matt would agree that he has certainly been wrong before, as well as barked up many a wrong tree, and then progressed accordingly – as we all have. We live, make mistakes, learn, hopefully not make the same mistakes, and live on. I like the idea of sharing our collective perspectives and life experiences – hopefully learn from and helping each other.

    BTW, it is (still) my opinion that ALL sources – whether for, against, balanced, or not – are biased in some way. That is just the nature of humankind. There is always a reason, an agenda, to benefit in some way, for everything people do and say – well intentioned and otherwise. And I do realize that includes Matt and others. All of us can be biased by our own personal hopes and want-to-believe's.

    I do think that you posed a very good question as to what does "work" mean with regard RBTI.

    Kind wishes! :-)

  144. Hi Kelly,

    25% is a high percentage. Were they diagnosed by a allopathic or an alternative medicine practitioner? I'm asking because some alternative practitioners diagnose IgA and IgG reactions from blood tests, while traditional types doubt these are clinically significant. Whether they are or not, they're a different beastie from the IgE, Epi-Pen variety. There are also delayed-reaction allergies. I definitely have one of these to, of all things, rice. My daughter's allergist told me these might not involve the immune system at all, but may be "cellular." I'm not sure what that means. It's more a nuisance thing than life-threatening – so I avoid rice, but wouldn't freak out if I accidentally ate it.

    Allergies are increasing. I think a lot of it is the hygiene and nursing stuff (if you haven't heard of it, Google "hygiene hypothesis" and "allergy" – for extra fun, try "hookworms" or "helminth" and "allergy"), as well as, in some cases, a lack of vitamin D.

    We aren't born with allergies to nuts, wheat, or whatever (gluten sensitivity and celiac aren't allergies – but you can be allergic to wheat). We're born with predispositions to develop allergies. If the environment is right (meaning wrong), the allergies can get triggered and you develop allergies to particular things you're exposed to. Some foods are more allergenic than others – the proteins have a greater tendency to make the immune system freak out – hence the "big eight" – but you can become allergic to any food or substance.

    A new theory (there a was an article about it the New Yorker in recent months) is that you can get sensitized through your skin to foods, and if you don't actually ingest those foods at an early age, you can become allergic to them – IF you are predisposed to food allergies. Ingesting the food helps build tolerance. (Caution: this does *not* work once you've developed the allergy! Once you've developed the allergy, you have to avoid that food, unless you get desensitized in a medical setting.) So the standard advice to not feed babies at high risk of food allergies highly allergenic foods could be ass-backwards.

  145. Taylor/Hobson doth protest too much? So don't try it. Why are you here? Perhaps you are one in a position of conflict of interest? I don't get the point in all the effort to squash a simple experiment. So maybe it don't work. But what if? Wont know until its tried. When your health problems go away for good that means it worked.

    The reason for the disclaimers is so the feds can't say they are practicing medicine and try to throw them in jail like they did to Carey Reams. Anyone with a brain and can think for themselves knows that. Anyone who can watch (or read) the movie of Doctor Burzynski and still refer to other similar claims as just paranoia is either a shill or a frickin moron.

  146. Than you to the anonymous poster above.

    You can't understand the rbti until you do it. So Tayler, no one is going to prove anything to you, because they can't. It cannot be explained without being done at the same time.


  147. Kitchen Recovery asked: Dorie, can't you test all the numbers now that you feel so much better to see if the numbers really are better?

    Sure, I can test the numbers again now. But what do they really tell me? Which would you put more faith in, your own healing and good health, or a set of numbers that someone else says are not good? Again, I must reiterate that to have faith in RBTI to the point that you modify your diet and previous good judgement regarding what is healthy food and what isn't, is to put faith in the claim that the formula of numbers that Dr. Reams came up with for perfect health is 100% accurate. Are you really willing to stake your health on that claim without any proof or accurate evidence that it works 100% with everyone who follows it accurately? If you're willing to give it a try, as I was, and you develop health problems you never had before, you would be a fool to continue to believe in the numbers over what you observe and feel and sense in your own body. That's where I'm at with the RBTI.

    Original RBTIer said: Dorie, I don't know who you are, or how you did your rbti experience, but I can promise you that it works if done right.

    I don't know who you are, either, but I know without a doubt that you can't promise what you're trying to promise. I can assure you that I did the RBTI "right" based on Challen's instructions. If you're now in perfect glowing health after following RBTI, I'm truly very happy for you.

  148. Team Smith-

    Reams just wanted the general public to know about his food list and drink distilled water. He thought that made the biggest difference.


    I'm not feeling better. And yes it is much lower in carbs and calories. I am losing weight because of it.

    Hawaii Girl-

    Yes. Challen has gone far beyond where Reams left off, identifying many other things that can cause a loss of energy.

    Anonymous blackstrap-

    Challen adds 1 teaspoon of blackstrap to just about everything he cooks. He calls this "remineralizing" the food.

    Anonymous skirted –

    The refractometer tests for all dissolved solids in the urine, including sugars. This number is looked at in relation to the mineral salt levels, so the relationship between the two is understood by Challen in the identifiable patterns one can see in the "numbers."


    Soon. Like in two days.


    Yeah, I go through Atlanta. Probably around 11am Eastern time on Friday I would guess. I could stop if you want me to.


    Really awesome feedback. I have plenty of doubts of course. But I'm also in his office all day long and see most people not even coming close to following his directions, and the ones who do give me the most impressive testimonials I've ever heard. But again, the failures don't call up everyday, or at all – only the ones who were swept up from the brink of death only to feel better within weeks and overcome seemingly impossible health problems. Clearly some amazing things do happen with this program. Clearly there are shortcomings. Challen doesn't know everything and knows that. He learns something new every day he tells me and knows there are many more aspects of this in need of being solved.

    I think the problem here is that typical human psychology is entering into the picture. Most Americans think there are Republicans and Democrats, and that's it. If I say I hate Obama, people assume I masturbate to the sound of Sarah Palin's voice.

    What's going on here seems to be this:

    People assume that this must be…

    1) The cure for all diseases
    2) A total scam

    I can assure everyone here that it is neither of those.

  149. (continued from above, Re: Anonymous)

    Perhaps you are one in a position of conflict of interest? I don't get the point in all the effort to squash a simple experiment.

    Perhaps you haven't been reading my posts. Please indicate where I have attempted to stop the experiment.

    I am very interested in outcome of this experiment, and want it to continue. That's exactly why I'm looking at all the variables–from the science, to the anecdotes, to the origins of the method, to all the possible factors involved. I like asking questions; secrecy and assertions of anyone having 'the one sacred science' makes me ask even more. I do similar due diligence with any doctor, practitioner, book, protocol, supplement or prescription I consider spending my time and money on.

    So maybe it don't work. But what if? Wont know until its tried.

    This is a tempting statement, but a fallacy when applied to a method that claims it can fix everyone. Many things can be understood without trying them–I know that crack cocaine isn't good for me, and don't need to try it to have evidence. I also don't need to go for a jog to know that exercise is beneficial.

    Why does the RBTI method need to be 'tried' in order to have proof? If the results are so incredibly absolute and positive, why is there no verifiable evidence?

    If the practitioners of RBTI have the absolute answer to all human health and healing, why haven't they shared it? This is the age of the internet–anyone can set up a website and hit 'post' in a few minutes.

    When your health problems go away for good that means it worked.

    Please define 'go away' and 'for good'.

    Should someone labor away at RBTI for two years, as Dorie did, while not getting better and waiting for the infallible promise to come true? (Meanwhile, feeling like they're 'just not doing it right' if it doesn't?)

    Please review the 'sunk cost fallacy', on Wikipedia or elsewhere. Guilt and lost money are powerful motivators. These are part of the human condition.

    The reason for the disclaimers is so the feds can't say they are practicing medicine and try to throw them in jail like they did to Carey Reams.

    If someone is diagnosing or promising the effect of a treatment, they are practicing medicine. If they someone is unlicensed, then they are practicing medicine without a license. If someone would like to obtain a license, and they are truly passionate about helping people by using one, then there are valid ways to obtain a license.

    Anyone with a brain and can think for themselves knows that.

    Probably, yes. That's why I pointed out the less-obvious (and more important to the patient–we are prospective patients, here) aspect of the disclaimer. Assessing risk can be a useful tool in making decisions.

    (contnued below)

  150. Really interesting stuff, Matt. Im intrigued to see how it comes out for you.

    Couple of questions:

    1)By distilled water, does RBTI mean the stuff you can buy, or you're supposed to distill your own?

    2) Does Challen use organics/local produce at all? Does he avoid GMOS.

  151. Helen and Rosenfelt-

    That's interesting you say that about allergies and cancer. Challen and I were talking about acne today (yours specifically Rosenfelt) and he said the same thing – "Well the good news is that he won't get cancer."

    Anyway, interesting.

    We both agreed after talking that you are probably way to alkaline Rosenfelt, and that drinking the distilled water as well as the lemonade for liver flushing would be a good shot-in-the-dark set of advice.


    Thanks for all that. Appreciate it. I can't answer all the questions, and that was a decent primer. I'm cautious about saying too much weird shit that comes from RBTI for fear of sounding like I have been eating paint chips lately.

    The Sally Fallon quote is particularly interesting, as pork is avoided due to the speed at which it digests compared to other proteins. This disturbance in body chemistry has supposedly been tracked by Challen, and takes 6 days to achieve recovery from that initial disturbance (which in turn causes what could be described as a "wave" like disturbing calm water in a swimming pool by doing a sweet ass cannonball). This is what allows him to identify which day the disturbance in body chemistry occurred.


    These are really wonderful and well-thought out responses.

    By "worked" I mean precisely that – fixed the health problem they entered with.

    And many have passionately told me how well it has "worked." Like one woman today who had migraine headaches for 20 years and hasn't had a single one since working with Challen, not even the first week.

    That is what I call "worked." At least for now.

    Others weren't even able to live a normal life because they had no energy. Couldn't work. Could barely get out of bed. That is now gone they tell me.

    It's unknowable what percentage of what diseases will get relief from RBTI. Each person adheres to the instructions with a different degree of leniency. There are many misunderstandings as well.

    When I first talked to Challen on the phone I told him it sounded like he knew some interesting things, and that he had knowledge that I didn't possess. His first reaction was "come up here and I'll show you everything you want to know." Not necessarily the warm welcome of a con artist afraid of his scam being exposed.

    Today a woman told him she was so sick she hasn't been able to work in a year. She had 5 pages of medical diagnoses that she received over the past 14 months for her extreme illness (her numbers were well into the E range – pH 5.8/5.5). He immediately told her he could give her all her minerals for 30% off and wouldn't mind doing that at all, and that she could come in and get tested every day if she wanted and it would cost her $49 a month to be on that program.

    Greedy sumbitch!

    And now he has offered someone who doesn't have much money to come up to Wheeling and stay for 2 weeks. He will feed this person 3 times per day of homecooked food, give supplements, daily urine tests, colon irrigation if needed, and personal instruction all day long for 14 straight days.

    Because this person has limited funds, he decided to charge this person a grand total of $0.00 for this two-week stay.

    Clearly he is hiding something and is just doing this to rip people off!!!!

    Again, I don't care about character judgements. I have no reason to believe that Oltza is or is not a douche. I don't care what Challen believes about what. If he thinks migraines are caused by alien podlings he can for all I care. If he can consistently help people overcome them it matters little to me. I'm here from legends I heard of his results. Not his theory or beliefs or medical knowledge. I don't think he's even heard of Weston A. Price.

  152. Sirch-

    I should also point out that the sicker you are, the greater the disturbance and the harder it is to restabilize the body chemistry.

    So an Okinawan in an otherwise idyllic healthy nutrition and lifestyle program may see very little turmoil in body chemistry from eating anything, pork or otherwise.

    Someone who is very ill, totally depleted, and 6 months away from death without a change in body chemistry requires a very different protocol.

    Kelly -

    Staying healthy and getting healthy are so very different. And I suspect just regular old food, even if grown with great excellence, just doesn't have the firepower of taking several grams of dolomite, min-col, calcium lactate, and other powerful mineral supplements while simultaneously monitoring body chemistry and keeping it in a tight range ideal for mineral absorption.

    What matters most though, is not what makes the most sense, but what works the best. If what made the most sense worked the best, I would have chugged raw milk and farm-fresh food in 2007 and lived happily ever after. You would have too. But we didn't.


    I don't feel better. Remember that the range is not necessarily the optimal range for human function, but the "healing range." Healing feels like shit. Many people get fevers, hives, insomnia, vomit, etc. once they get to the healing range. RBTI isn't a picnic.

    The ridges on my fingernails are decreasing rapidly though. That's pretty cool. My teeth also appear whiter. My numbers have changed dramatically too. My pH is now 6.2/6.2. My salt number and urea have decreased as well.

    I also had urea totals drop below 14 while taking dolomite and could hardly move my head right or left my neck got so stiff.


    Meet me at Dagobah.

  153. Matt, this is why we love you. At least me (yeah, I'm being a groupie, so get over it OAAW). You are able to take all our ramblings and questions and 'what ifs' and distill it all down to a few succinct (and yet funny) points. Keep at it. This is why we need you to forget you have a life outside of us, chime in frequently, and set us all straight. But if you decide alien podlings are involved, keep it to yourself.

  154. Matt, if you're still up, can you tell me what to look for with pee and a refractometer (simply)? I could send some pee to work with hubby tonight, along with his dinner, and he can check it. Hmm, better not include any apple juice to drink.

  155. Wow, Matt, really great commentary! The comments section is what makes this blog freakin' awesome. That was hugely helpful feedback tonight.

    Matt wrote:
    Yeah, I go through Atlanta. Probably around 11am Eastern time on Friday I would guess. I could stop if you want me to."

    Seriously? I was just making a funny, but that is way cool of you to do that! I am super curious to know what my numbers are and what they mean, so I'm definitely good with it if you are. I have somewhat of a semi-formal gig on Friday, so don't make fun of me if I'm in dressy attire lol!

    So how would this work? Just figure out my numbers then you/I/we call them in to Challen? Is the initial consultation ("reading of my numbers") with Challen free? Or how does that work? Also, do you have a meeting place in mind or do we need to work that out? You can email this info, if you prefer, and we can work out the details. Thanks bunches! Really great of you to do this for peeps. Me love you long time :-)

  156. Matt said:

    "The Sally Fallon quote is particularly interesting, as pork is avoided due to the speed at which it digests compared to other proteins. This disturbance in body chemistry has supposedly been tracked by Challen, and takes 6 days to achieve recovery from that initial disturbance."

    Here is a snippet from a transcript of an interview with Reams about the no-foods:

    "Kirban: And so what you're saying is that the unclean meats, such as hogs and, of course, the Bible speaks about shellfish, such as shrimp and, uh, lobsters…

    Reams: Rabbit and catfish.

    Kirban: Ah, catfish—they have very low energy levels, or rather they produce very low energy levels in the human being. Is that what you're telling me?

    Reams: No, I'm not telling you that at all. They produce very high energy levels, very quickly.

    Kirban: Oh, very quickly.

    Reams: Yes, very quickly.

    Kirban: I see.

    Reams: When you figure energy, you've got to factor in the time limit. In other words, the unclean meats digest in a period of about three hours, and the clean meats require about 18 hours.

    Kirban: Let's get back to these unclean meats. Is this bad for it to digest quickly, and, uh–

    Reams: Yes.

    Kirban: Why?

    Reams: Yes, it is bad because it's like burning high-test gasoline in a motor that's not built for it.

    Kirban: And so we're really, our human bodies are not built for quick bursts of energy or quick use of energy or –

    Reams: Not with the way we live today, no. Some of our ancestors many have been able to handle these bursts, but they worked hard. They worked 16 to 18 hours a day, and they could burn it up. But today with our life—air-conditioned homes, air-conditioned automobiles—we don't use our muscles like they did, and we cannot burn it up.

    Kirban: What about someone who's digging ditches or is a farmer who is toiling heavily every day, or a truck driver who's loading and unloading? Could he eat hog meat and get away with it?

    Reams: I do not know. Some of them do and some of them don't. I do not know each case without a urine/saliva test. But I find some people come in here who do hard work, like Amish farmers, Mennonites…

    Kirban: Right.

    Reams: Farmers, who do hard work, and they get to 35 or 45 years old, but they look like they're 70 or 80 years old. They're sick and they get to where they can't work. But take them off the unclean meats, teach them how to eat, and in six months they even look younger than their age."

    Maybe the quick digestion / high energy production is why Peat (mistakenly?) recommends shellfish and saturated fat / coconut oil.

    Also, that site — http://www.rbti.info — has some pretty good basic info on the RBTI equation and what the numbers mean.

  157. Traditional Chinese medicine says that the sour flavor correlates to the liver and gallbladder. I've seen recommendations not only for lemon juice as a liver tonic (e.g. relieve stagnant liver qi), but lime juice and raw vinegar.


    That article by Shomatsu Osada has some interesting ideas. On the topic of lemon juice, anyway, I have to wonder if it's exclusively the lemon juice, or the citric acid component. I would imagine raw vinegar or fresh lemon juice would be superior to citric acid, just because they're unrefined, but as far as I know they could essentially function the same way.

    People's ideas about lemon juice being beneficial for the liver, no matter how pseudo-scientific they sound, in tandem with TCM's position that the sour flavor relates to the liver and gallbladder, is beyond coincidental to me. I have a feeling that there really is something to this and it's just going to take more time for the science to come out with clearer reasons as to why it works.

    Taking it easy on the fat and drinking lemon water/raw vinegar spiked water has seemed to help me in the past. It helped to lessen that sluggish, heavy, fatigued and tired feeling I tend to get all the time. According to TCM, it might be a damp/cold condition and stagnant liver qi/spleen qi deficiency that would benefit from lowered fat intake, higher complex carbohydrate intake, focusing on warming foods as opposed to cooling (dates instead of bananas, for example – dates are said to be warming, and bananas extremely cooling) and taking lemon water/vinegar tonic regularly.

    I read something on this blog about lowering fat intake being one of the best ways to improve glucose metabolism quickly (paraphrasing here) — that just convinced me more than there really is something to this TCM stuff. I'm not going gung-ho on it but it does sound like it has a lot to offer. What's lacking is the scientific explanations, and the 'qi' and 'woo woo' stuff throws people off.

    Definitely interesting to me, though.

  158. Matt ~

    Thanks for your response. I'd like to reply to you and Original RBTIer, but I am waiting for you to answer my clarifying question first.

    Perhaps you missed it in the scrollback, so I will repost it:

    To clarify — the poster in this forum signed as 'Original RBTIer' has identified themselves as the example (hypoglycemic/person who first brought RBTI & Challen to your attention) that you're referring to in this article.

    Can you confirm?


  159. Matt – I'm used to filtering ideas by how much sense they make, how much evidence there is, or whether the results are repeatable. Considering how I "discovered" the perfect diet/nutrition principles (which passed all of my criteria, I thought), and it got me into this hell hole I'm in now, I'm definitely willing to suspend my methods: if it can make me feel better, then that's great.

    Jib- I've had some experience with TCM and it's always been right, or at least shed some light on what's going on with me. After giving birth, I became a believer in the mind-body connection and TCM is a part of that.

  160. @Jib:
    Interesting, I also stumbled upon that vinegar link just recently.

    Also, I've been loking to get an overview of TCM for quite some time now. Do you know any good sources for that?

  161. so for those who follow RBTI, do you have a water distiller? why distilled? doesn't that take all of the minerals out and the point of the program is to get proper minerals? and what about fats to utilize the minerals?

    no nuts at all?

    for those who drink raw milk, do you just skim milk from the farm?

    and this may seem silly, but what do you use for skin lotion? olive oil? i use a lot of coconut oil as lotion, tooth paste, etc.

    what is in this kit for $400 and where do you get it?

    this is all very interesting. thanks matt for posting about this. my family and i have had some nagging health problems despite following a WAPF diet now for 10 years and at this point, i am willing to experiment a bit!

    so sad about the pork though as we are just finishing our first 2 hogs on our family farm! up until this point, i have ignored all warnings about pork but have just been seeing too much about its negative effects lately that it's hard to ignore! may have to give RBTI a try once we finish up the bacon!

  162. I'm wondering what fat you would use for pancakes, cookies, etc too. Olive oil doesn't work for that, and I don't think I can come around to corn oil. Tallow isn't on a no list as far as I know, but tallow cookies don't work for me either. Or is butter ok in small amounts?

    Also, I keep reading that sourdough is a no. This is pretty much the only way we eat wheat (finally got a good whole wheat sourdough going). Any explanation to why? Without potatoes and white rice, that would up our wheat consumption. Does Challen see/believe in gluten intolerance?

  163. I find it interesting the mention of minerals. In my own experience vitamin supplements (save vit. d and cod liver oil) did squat, where as various mineral supplements seemed to provide benefits.

    I'm definitely interested in future posts about RBTI. I do have to respect your position Matt about having an open mind and looking past the bogus explanations the guy has about why his method works. Not long ago I spent nearly 2 hours on the phone with someone talking about adult palate expansion. This despite the fact the guy believed that alien viruses were causing disease and a whole host of other wacko stuff. If there is one thing I've learned when it comes to information discovery, it's that good information can be found in very unlikely places. diamond among turds if you will

  164. Lorelei

    Matt said that brown rice is ok, so that might be a starch option for you.

    I made pancakes this morning using brown rice flour and cooked them in butter(he said small amounts of dairy fat are ok, so figured that was a small amount). They were very tasty. Might have had something to do with the maple syrup I drowned them in though. Yum!!! :)

  165. DML,

    Awesome NASA link. And awesome comments in general over the last few posts.

  166. Mishkam,
    Seriously sounds gooood. At least maple syrup is on the yes list. If there were NO sweets available I don't think I could make it work. I am sweets junkie for sure. I can do with less butter as long as I have maple syrup to soak them in. I could definitely handle less butter, but NO butter completely seems pretty hard. How would you cook? Especially things like pancakes and such. I guess all will be told in time.

  167. "So an Okinawan in an otherwise idyllic healthy nutrition and lifestyle program may see very little turmoil in body chemistry from eating anything, pork or otherwise."

    This makes sense to a certain degree, but to my mind, if this were the case, the Okinawans as a people would eventually suffer ill health as a result of pork consumption, were pork inherently a 'bad' food. If pork is as terrible a food as Reams claimed, the Okinawans may 'have been' fine for a few generations, but then begun to deteriorate. For the success of successive generations, the diet can't regularly include large amounts of really bad food.
    Maybe something is missing here, I haven't read his writing.

    I have to say the 'you have to try it to believe it' argument is as a good as the low-carb testimonials. Is it possible that the RBTI diet is another quick 'medicine' fix just like the low-carb diet may be?

    Perhaps the real fix to all our health problems is simply believing, which may explain the success stories of some, and the stories of failure of others of these patients. For people needing to believe, religious-like arguments could be the most convincing factor.

    Also, I'm not seeing how whole grains are considered good for digestion, but refined not. If fat is bad for you simply due to its difficulty of digesting properly in a sick person, then why wouldn't whole grains fall under the same category?

    I suppose the answer to that is 'you have to try it to believe it'…;).

  168. If it's true that the evidence precedes the theories, and in addition that the diet does indeed heal (rather than a catecholamine-like high type of feeling better), then it means that we just don't have a way to explain RBTI yet. Whether or not the current theories are loony doesn't necessarily mean that it doesn't actually work – just that we don't know everything (anything) about health and nutrition. I think so many of us are having a hard time with the concept of RBTI because we're coming from raw/paleo/wap type diets (all of whom are considered crazy by your local doctor). WAPF, etc, obviously aren't the holy grail though, because how many bloggers are still playing around with what they eat? Every single one I read is constantly tweaking – just like Matt – but only within their paradigm. Their successes are temporary at best – and then they'll try GAPS, or amino acids, or more fermented food, or…. 180, on the other hand, tweaks all over the place (whatever that means!) and embraces the idea that there is more to learn.

  169. "Perhaps the real fix to all our health problems is simply believing, which may explain the success stories of some, and the stories of failure of others of these patients"

    Reminds me of a post on 'Hunt Gather Medicine' discussing the importance as a practitioner in activating an individual's meaning response' to facilitate healing. Check it: tinyurl.com/ 3hox976

    The author also has a nice speculative post that ties well into some of Matt's writing about the cause of obesity as perhaps a dysfunction in the mitochondria of the cell. tinyurl.com/ 4y6zlng

  170. "Perhaps the real fix to all our health problems is simply believing, which may explain the success stories of some, and the stories of failure of others of these patients"

    Hi Josefina
    yes, I see time and again that a shift in perspective – not one that one tries to achieve – but one that happens of its own accord in response to something (or someone) is a key.
    Along with the perspective change comes a whole new outlook. So to does the perspective one has about the illness also.
    And then the 'dis-ease' (discontent) in thinking diminishes. And this in itself has kinder, more gentle implications on the body.
    'Dis-ease' can also apply not to someone with a serious illness, but to someone on a constant search for an idealised state of super-health. Obviously, there is some discontent or worry with how such a person perceives their health at the time, or how they think it should be, otherwise there is no need to search.
    But should the perspective change, so to does how they view their lot, also.

  171. @ Lisa

    What negative consequences are you noticing? How can you be sure it's the pork?

    How come you people are looking to tweak your diet towards RBTI? Are you already convinced? It's the same as with the sugar surge… Matt makes a post about his experiments and right away everyone is starting to ask questions on how to change their diets in a similar way… And that even though Matt himself is saying he is still skeptical? I think JT was 100% right when he noticed this kind of mentality before.

    There are (/were) many more healthy pork-eating populations than just the Okinawans. Shouldn't there be a notable difference between them and those that did not any of the no-foods? One in favor for the latter groups? It also seems rather too unlikely that Reams' fundamentalist Christian faith would coincide with his 'scientific' findings that 'unclean' animals are also unhealthy to eat. Well, God told him… apparantly after changing his mind (again.)

  172. hi hans,

    i have no idea if it's the pork! I do know that many people following various types of diets avoid it, and i think there must be something to it. i have mostly ignored that fact up until this point. in reading that challen sees changes in people's numbers after consuming it was a tipping point for me, not to mention that i am seeing a practitioner right now who also advises me not to eat pork ( i haven't seen a practitioner for anything in years and decided that it might be helpful to have the input of an alternative practitioner regarding some nagging minor health concerns). i am thinking it might not hurt to stop eating pork (and chocolate for that matter!) for a while to see if i notice a difference. plus i will research this topic more, too, to find out what is behind these pronouncements of pork as unclean and whether traditional pork eating cultures were less healthy in any way that non-pork eating cultures.

    for some reason RBTI is intriguing to me so i want to pursue it a bit. and no i didn't start eating a ton of sugar or potatoes when matt did! i guess i like RBTI because there seems to be a tangible way to measure health and appropriate measures–minerals, diet–to improve health. ultimately, i think i need to just get more in touch with what foods are healthy for me. at this point eating a whole foods diet, i am finding it difficult to discern which foods might not be working so well for me.

  173. Hi all,

    re the pork commentary, I thought I would share my experiences. I used to find that I got horrible nightmares from eating pork. the only other food that did similar was on the rare occasions I ate ice cream, probably due to the presence of pork fat in it. I would also experience high levels of anxiety and stress hours afterwards for no apparent reason; eating a meal I tend to do well on would sort it pretty much straight away. I heard this was not that unusual, as it was due to the stress hormones in the pork being passed on to me… how accuarate that explanation is I cant be sure, but that is the experience everytime I have taken a punt on it over the last few years – free range, biodynamic etc or not. dont get it as bad with bacon though, nice little inconsistency there for you…. anyway, I take the other road these days and give it a miss.



  174. @hans

    Spot on. People should slow there role. I think its hard though when you have been trying to heal problems and you find another possible solution, most people are so desperate to just feel healthier and rightly so.

  175. This link contains an amateur doing his own analysis of his own numbers:

    "Let's review the RBTI tests I did lately.

    0.7 5.8 / 6.8 5C 4M 7 / 7

    My analysis, after reading Dr. Beddoe's book
    A few simple observations first:
    * My urine pH is way too low. It's 0.6 pH points under the optimal, which means it's 4 times more acid (cationic) than it should be
    * My saliva pH is slightly too alkalic (anionic)
    * Conductivity (salt index) is relatily low
    * The urea's are relatively low
    * The Sugar Brix level is way too low and I obviously have trouble keeping my bloodsugars in check.. Low-bloodsugar symptoms are possible.

    Because my weight is relatively low (185cm and 72kg) and also the urea's, this means I have a potassium deficiency.

    The urine pH and the saliva pH's are quite offset (big difference). This means the digestion is quite poor. The big offset means that in some parts of the digestive tract, the digestion is way too slow and in other parts it's way too fast. This causes maldigestion and then gas.

    The saliva pH reflects the quality of the liver w.r.t. first-phase digestion. It reflects the pH of the bile. 6.4 is the optimum value.

    The urine pH reflects that 2nd part of the digestion, in other words, how the foods, once absorbed, are metabolised in the body. This is going quite bad.. 5.8 is a very acid value.

    Insulin's action is dependent on a stable pH of the tissues in the body.
    Because of this high acidity, the insulin is functioning very poorly in the body. With too alkalic values it would be working too powerful.
    In my case, with the high acidity, this means insulin is very ineffective in bringing down the blood glucose levels. So, when I eat a small amount of carbohydrates, the bloodsugars rise, and the pancreas starts to pump insulin. The pump only stops when the bloodsugar levels have come down to reasonable levels again. When the insulin is very ineffective, this produces a sitatuation, known as hyperinsulinemea: Way too much insulin is available in the blood.
    After a while, this will cause low blood sugars and on average the blood sugars will be very low, due to the high insulin content of the blood.
    The 0.7 Brix perfectly reflects this situation.. Cause and effect: pH is too low –> Insulin too ineffective –> Bloodsugars low –> Brix levels low

    Due to the low blood sugars, the blood's capability to transport oxygen is severely damaged. At Brix values between 1.2 and 2.0, with an optimum at 1.5, blood can transport the most oxygen. Lower or higher levels will decrease or increase (excessively) the oxygen-carrying property of the blood. So, in my case, the blood is carrying too less oxygen. Low oxygen affects the brains, but it also affects the liver."


  176. (continuing)

    "The liver and oxygen
    Without proper oxygen availability, the liver can't absorb and process calcium. This causes big problems: The liver can't produce the enzymes (6 billion types) anymore, which are needed as raw enzymes for the other organs to transform into usable enzymes. When the liver starts to malfunction, that's the start of the disease. So, our main goal will be to get the liver back online..

    Bloodsugars and alcohol
    But wait, there's even more to learn: Low bloodsugars will mean that the pancreas won't produce enough alcohol from the glucose. Low alcohol means low body temperature and low body temperature means that several enzymes won't function correctly. They depend on a stable body temperature. Any fluctuation will severely flaw the function of the enzymes.

    Bloodsugars and potassium
    When there's not enough urea's in the blood (side products of protein digestion), the body can't effectively absorb potassium. With low potassium the brains can't function optimally and it won't be able to send the right signals to the organs. So it's also important to increase the bloodsugars to improve potassium absorption.

    My calcium problems
    Perhaps my problems with calcium in the past are caused by this:
    Low pH –> insulin problems -> low blood sugars -> low oxygen-transport -> liver unable to process the calciums -> high calcium levels in the blood -> Brain fog (inability to think clearly) when near blood-brain-barrier-breaking electrosmog, because excess calcium leaks into brain, causing neurotoxin situation.

    The Treatment 
Again, the main goal is to get the liver back online, so it can supply all neccessary raw enzymes to all organs, so digestion will function optimally, detox will, and organs will be regenerating like they should. 

How can this be accomplished ? 
The worst part of the equation needs to be solved first: 
* The very acid pH 
* The Low Brix levels 

This is accomplished by starting the lemon-distilled water treatment, by changing the diet to include more raw green foods, to drink vegetable juices and to supplement the important calciums that are lacking. In my case it will be the anionic calciums. Besides that I will also need mineral colloids to improve the mineral colloid in my body. 
The lemon-juice is already doing its job, as can be seen in the RBTI figures after one day of lemon-water treatment.. 
Once the pH's go up, this will improve digestion noticably and will also improve insulin's action. One nasty side effect is that there will be quite some hypoglycemia symptoms, as the insulin gets more and more powerful in lowering glucose levels.. 
One day, I had a nasty experiece and almost fainted. 
This is counteracted by adding a sweetener to the lemon juice and also a few drops of gin (alcohol), which catalyzes the blood regulation process. "

  177. From above:
    "Low blood sugars will mean that the pancreas won't produce enough alcohol from the glucose. Low alcohol means low body temperature and low body temperature means that several enzymes won't function correctly. They depend on a stable body temperature. Any fluctuation will severely flaw the function of the enzymes."

    So according to this guy:

    low pH (acidity) -> ineffective insulin -> high insulin -> low blood sugar -> low pancreas function -> low temperature

    "Because of this high acidity, the insulin is functioning very poorly in the body. With too alkalic values it would be working too powerful. "

    Could it be that:

    low pH (acidity) -> insulin resistance

    This might explain why some people see higher body temps if high carb / RRARF helps restore or maintain blood sugar levels.

    It might also explain why high carb is not a necessarily cure for the problem. The steady carb feeding might just keep blood sugar up without fixing the insulin problem.

    This also validates the idea that low body temp is unhealthy and challenges the idea that low body temp is either desirable or insignificant.

  178. Apple cider vinegar (with appropriate buffers such as bicarbonate or baking soda) removes the body of lactic acid, which in excess kills the cells and causes heart problems.

    Yes, yogurt causes heart palpitations because it has lactic acid. Lactic acid is peculiarly toxic to the cell's mitochrondria. Atheletes dread lactic acid buildup and wish one day they can rid of them. Well there is a remedy, it is the acetates (and can come from apple cider vinegar and the side effects are also reduced with citrates – from lemon and bicarbonates).

    As a student when I studied biochemistry I would cringe at the idea of lactic acid. If I do a cell cultures, and use lactic acid as a pH to adjust to ideal biological conditions, the cell cultures would immediately die. This is a well known fact.

    Since the heart is the source of constant energy, mitochrondrial health is extremely important. Lactic acid buildup intracellulary is dangerous, and this is why athletes have short lives – from long lactic acidosis causing muscular fatigue, thus heart attack is frequent.

    In my opinion, magnesium acetate and potassium acetate are an ideal form, and this is found best whenever apple cider vinegar and baking soda is added. May I dare say that apple cider vinegar and baking soda is a food for the heart.

    The other issue is the calcium buildup which causes the cells to function improperly. Usually a citrates, found in 8 teaspoons of lime juice (or lemon) plus 1/2 teaspoon of baking soda is taken reduces the serum calcium buildup which clogs the cells. This should also help.

    The best detoxification of lactic acid is either sodium acetate, potassium acetate, magnesium acetate. These acetate forms are found whenever apple cider vinegar is taken, in any brand, and it is reacted with the body's bicarbonates to neutralize and convert to acetate. The cells use the acetate to rid the body of lactic acid. The problem about ridding the intracellular is half of the problem. The other is the body needs to neutralize the acid extracellularly also, which I think is best handled with baking soda and citrates (lemon juice). I remember that whenever a person has a heart attack, they use Harvey Teams (in hospitals) to inject a large syringe of baking soda. This is a quick remedy, but not a complete one. Acetates, magnesium, potassium, and bicarbonates is the preferred remedy to use, in my opinion anyway.

    I recently have a friend who came to visit me one day and told me her heart had a terrible heart palpitations that she would nearly faint and breathing becomes a problem. I knew it was a simple electrolytic imbalance. After taking 1/16 teaspoon of potassium citrate, 1/16 sea salt, 1/16 teaspoon of magnesium chloride, and some sodium citrate, the conditions stopped within minutes and never came back.

    People never realize that these electrolytes are the power cells that gives cells their electrical energy. In the olden days, they use salt with a cardboard in layers to create electricity (Alessandro Volta). If you have a multimeter, most salt solutions do have electricity. Usually it is about 1/2 volts, in case you are wondering. Just imagine what happens if the body's electrolytes are imbalance or lacking, the heart needs electrical energy for normal heart beat too.


  179. Anyone see that movie 'Idiocracy?' The dumb folks in the future were convinced that the Gatorade like stuff they used instead of water to grow plants was essential, because of the 'electrolytes.' Made me laugh at my casual dismissal of those characters, when I learned about permaculture and the importance minerals in soil health.

    Maybe Brawndo does have what plants need. :-)

  180. madMUHHH: I found out about TCM through Healing with Whole Foods by Paul Pitchford. I kind of take that book with a grain of salt, but it's handy to have around. It also has some great explanations of TCM concepts but I wonder if you could learn just as much or more by reading online.

    Here are some free sources:




    Kelly: Yeah, TCM is cool stuff :) "At least shed some light on what's going on with me" rings most true for me.

    The mind-body connection is really interesting to me too. I'd write more right now but that brings up a whole bunch of stuff, as I'm sure you know XD Existential can of worms. Or wormholes? :o

  181. @Lisa

    "and no i didn't start eating a ton of sugar or potatoes when matt did! i guess i like RBTI because there seems to be a tangible way to measure health and appropriate measures–minerals, diet–to improve health. ultimately, i think i need to just get more in touch with what foods are healthy for me. at this point eating a whole foods diet, i am finding it difficult to discern which foods might not be working so well for me."

    Sorry, I should maybe have made two posts. What I said was a general observation. Sure, RBTI sounds intriguing. But just that some guy can see something in numbers which may or may not be relevant isn't such a good argument. If you avoid pork and it helps you, great. But it still might be an individual thing, after all people can be allergic / intolerant to all kinds of stuff.

  182. While I am back on Optimal diet I still love coming here to see whats new.And all this talk of pork and butter now being super bad for you is kinda weird.I eat pork bellies twice a week and when I go to work the next day this old man greets me with "Hey young man".I know he does this because I look better and when I drink the night before or even days before he says…what happened you went binge drinking???

    What happens that causes this for me is one very stable BS and two is reduced intestinal yeast.I tried eating tons of fruit and can say my energy was thru the roof BUT i started to look aged after just one week.I am 41 and get proofed at times and can tell you its when I do the high fat optimal diet.

    Look at this chart done by Jimmy Moore.It shows orange juice spiking and keeping BS elevated yet not dropping below baseline….then the protein shakes causing very little BS fluctuations and finally SpecialK shake causing 40point hypo drop.The OJ is interesting and explains why such a tremendous energy level from fruit….it keeps BS high for a long time.Is that good or bad???

  183. Original RBTIer said:

    "undercooked or raw meats are the worst. You don't want to go anywhere near those."

    Wow, I can hear WAPFers and Aajonus Vonderplanitz and screaming.

    So you can only have steak well done?


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