Polyuria, Nocturia, Bedwetting, Frequent Urination

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Poly means many.  Uria means pee-pee.  Noct means night. I think you get what we’re talking about here.  Ever since I started studying urine a few months ago, and have now examined several hundred people’s urine, some “clear” patterns have emerged.

When metabolism starts to buckle, especially in the throes of an eating disorder or extremely restricted diet of some kind, “sugars,” or the amount of solute in the urine or relative concentration of the urine you could say, drops.  Urine becomes very clear and the urge to urinate strikes as often as every 15 minutes in the midst of a “sugar crash.”

Some cursory glances into the medical literature revealed something about urine concentrating defect, or defects in ADH (anti-diuretic hormone) coinciding with this kind of thing.  I’ll look into it later in greater depth, but that could be some underlying metabolic explanation for what exactly is going on in that situation.

Oh, so anyway, I’ve seen tons of people that just pee like crazy.  Like dozens of times per day, with several bouts of polyuria that involve urinating several times in a single hour – and having to wake up enough times in the middle of night (nocturia) more or less have this uncontrollable urge to pee pretty much ruin their health via lack of sleep.

Some people had mentioned this kind of problem to me at various points in the past.  I remember 180 commenter Sheila for example, who mentioned that she couldn’t get to sleep at a decent hour, because in the late evening she would just start peeing every 20 minutes, which would continue for hours before she was finally able to get to sleep.

Incidentally, this is the last thing I’ve heard from her since she started doing RBTI…

“Also, I don’t have to get up at night to pee anymore! I sleep the whole night through! I haven’t tried that like almost since I was a kid (back then I just peed in my bed instead, HA!) It’s fantastic! I sleep like a baby AND I can go to bed at 10 pm, no problem!

I’ve also lost 8 kg’s and I am still losing.”

But I didn’t really understand what in the world could be causing this strange disorder.  It’s now something I know to be very simple, with a simple cause and straightforward solution.  And yes, I’ve seen this problem most frequently in over-exercisers, hardcore health fanatics on a Spartan diet of some kind (my favorite is when the 80-10-10 raw vegans say that “you should be waking up at least 3 times in the night to have a wee”), and those with eating disorders.

I also had the pleasure this spring of watching a chronic 5-year old bedwetter totally overcome her condition by eating ice cream.  Ah, the healing properties of ice cream!

Funny thing is that I have experienced an extreme bout of polyuria myself.  When did I have that?  Any guesses?

Yes, it came when I was out in the Wind River Mountain Range of Wyoming with insufficient food while hiking hours per day and getting stupid lean.  Even without drinking any water I would urinate like a madman.  I remember eating my morning oatmeal and having to urinate 15 or so times in the next 2 hours.  Crystal clear.  Like a mountain stream.

I was starving.  Literally.  Dropping down to no more than 5% body fat, freezing cold, hair falling out, schlong not working, insomnia, constipation, thinking obsessively about food, bipolar – oh the joys of the great outdoors!

Anyway, I had no idea what this was all about a few months ago.  But it’s quite remarkable what you can learn about a person just by finding out how often they urinate and what color their urine is typically.  It speaks volumes.  And is highly significant to the big picture of what is going on under the surface.  Consider this email that I received earlier this week…

“Hi Matt,

I just want to thank you for having such an eye opening blog for me to read, and I just want to say it’s really helped me in regards to eating again and hopefully overcoming anorexia.

My story is very LONG and I’m sure you don’t want to hear every single little detail. But basically, in March of 2009 I was a 215lb, 15 year old teen, 5’8 with little to no self esteem.

I lost 90lbs within the next year and a half, developed an exercise addiction along the way and became obsessed with “Low Carb”. And became freakishly paranoid with any starch that I came into contact with, as I’m STILL that way to this very day.

So here I am, 18 years old, 5’8, 127 lbs as of this morning. Surviving on black coffee every morning, with an outdoor cycling addiction.

I have a few problems that I was wondering you could help me with if you had some time maybe.

Some of them being..

– Waking up 3-4 times a night drenched in sweat, having to pee (I got tired of walking to the restroom in my dorm area, so I just bought a gallon jug and fill that up with pee every single night)

– Simple Carbohydrates/ Complex Carbohydrates… I still literally eat 4-5 lbs of vegetables a day. Still saying that there’s calories in these vegetables so therefore it’s still significant for my body. I’m afraid of eating a simple carb because I’m afraid that the insulin spike will instantly store fat, how do I get past this?

Obviously, like I said there’s WAY more to my story and WAY more problems that I have on a day to day basis dietary wise. But I just wanted to see if you’d respond.. :)”

Yes, of course I will respond and of course I will work with you young stallion.  Just give me some time.  I’ve got a conference coming up, and a lot of driving to get there and preparation to do.  It is interesting that you report waking up with severe night sweats.  My ex-girlfriend had the same thing when she was doing endurance exercise on a low-carb diet.  Anyone else have this issue and some insight on it?

You can start by putting white sugar under your tongue during your middle-of-the-night pee parties, and eating carbs primarily – rather than fat or protein, especially in the morning and midday – if you can muster up the courage.

As of December 1, 2012 you can now read in great depth about this issue and issues related to it in the book Eat for Heat.

Anyway everybody, I’ll be pretty scarce for the next 10 days, but I’ll be back in full force by mid-November.  Perhaps some of you, particularly you low-sugar RBTI nerds, or people who have maintained or lost fat adding carbs back to your diet, can help this lil’ brother out.


  1. yes! I can’t wait for the conference! A-maze-ing article, of course… I will e-mail you soon, Sensei.. :) gracias

  2. I pee a lot, clear, do a lot of endurance exercise, and also eat essentially 811 (just not vegan or all raw). I’ve always just chalked it up to being four 64oz Vita-Mix pitchers full of fruit, other fruit, 4+ 24oz water bottles a day, and a bladder equal to that of a 8mo along pregnant woman. Pissing at night is annoying, so curious about what you have to say. I think it just comes down to me needing to order a bigger bladder. I should check Amazon.

    • Magnesium. I take Magnesium Citrate powder. Went from 5 times a night to none or more usually one time a night to wee. Immeadiate and fantastic. I take a Blackmore’s product. It has amino acids also added. It worked so well. The effects are almost immediate One teaspoon a day is the usual dose. The first day I took four. I originally took it for my very strong muscle cramps. This was a very beneficial side effect!

  3. Yo Matty!
    Awesome new site!!
    I still sleep like a baby! No peeing at night anymore! Still going to sleep at 10pm. I’ve become quite the expert on my pee ;-) I drink about 750ml of pure water from the time I wake up, to about 2 pm. After that I have nothing to drink. It keeps my sugars in the right range throughout the morning. On the other hand, if I don’t drink any water in the first half of the day, my sugar rises too high and I can’t urinate at all. The refractometer is my new boyfriend (Oh boy, I have a sad life)!
    Looking back, I must have had this low sugar problem, ever since I was a kid, since I suffered from bed wetting my whole childhood.
    -And for the record, I have now lost 11kgs, eating high carb;-) with no exercise other than walking my dog, which I also did when I weren’t losing any weight.
    I have regained my energy and I feel great.
    Remaining problems are, I am still lactating and my hair still isn’t looking good. I think I need deeper RBTI testing for this..

    • -Also, I still suffer from cold hands? It doesn’t seem to have any correlation to having low sugars, sometimes but definitely not always? Do you have any ideas about why this is still an issue?

      • Sheila, just a suggestion, but have you tried the infamous RBTI Zest Tonic after your lunch and dinner meals? It’s 4 parts gin, 1 part creme de menthe, and 1 part apricot brandy. Just a tsp or 2 at a time.

        • Hi Tyler.
          Thanks for your input.
          No, I have not tried the infamous RBTI Zest Tonic?! Sounds interesting! What is it all about?? I haven’t heard about it. I don’t handle alcohol very well as it is..
          What is it supposed to be good for specifically?

          • Are you saying you’re nursing a baby or your body just won’t stop lactating? I’m curious because I started doing this RBTI thing about a month ago and I’m still nursing my 16 month old baby girl. I worry about getting dehydrated only drinking the 4 oz of lemonade and 4 oz of distilled water every hour. My skin and lips have been so dry since I started. I have a lot of trouble with low sugar and so I can never drink just plain distilled water because my sugar drops right away. So, I always drink it with some juice in it so I don’t get too dehydrated and I’m not sure if that’s the right thing to do. Does anyone know if there’s something different that pregnant or nursing moms need to do?

          • MARY-

            I tried responding to your question at the top of this thread but there was no reply button??
            To answer your question, No I am not nursing, I’m just having some weird hormonal abnormality. I have been lactating for about a year now. Nothing I do or eat seems to correct it.
            Regarding your question; Are you doing RBTI on your own or with Challen, or some other practitioner?

          • I hope this ends up in reply to your question, Sheila, since I couldn’t find a reply button there either! I’m just doing RBTI on my own. I bought Matt’s e-book on RBTI. I’m not doing all the numbers, I just have a refractometer. I’m drinking the lemonade, doing the meal schedule and trying to avoid the no-no foods, although its very hard to avoid butter! There’s no way I can eat toast without butter on it!

          • Sorry for the late response. Basically the zest tonic is supposed to closely mimic the body’s own alcohol production. Hypoglycemics supposedly do not make enough alcohol which can lead to poorer digestion and cold extremities. It actually does help quite a bit for some people. Don’t worry if you are intolerant to alcohol, taking only a tsp or 2 after a meal will not do any harm and you won’t even notice you had any alcohol… except for possibly feeling a bit warmer plus a cure for indigestion.

  4. he email writer , don’t be scurded of the carbs ! carbs do not equal fat, ingested calories become fat when your body needs or thinks it needs fat. circumventing that with a bandaid solution like cutting all carbs has little long term success.

    hey matt,
    What’s your thoughts on infrequent urination like a few times daily, I’m known to go on long drives and never stopping, while my wussy companions need pee breaks galore.

    • CHIEF!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Could it be true, can it be You???? Welcome back from the woods my friend, good to have you here again.
      xo deb

      • yes deb, fresh out of the backwoods of BC and Alaska … missed all the great mass debatin’ all the pork hatin’ and pee pee investigatin’
        hi everybody hope URINE good health !

        • welcome back, good buddy. look forward to reading more from you

          • thanks Rob, there will be lots to read

        • all good on the western front Chief! I get to meet Mattie and Pippa this weekend, so excited and a tad nervous.. about the peeing. :-) Glad to see you back, I have missed your take on things. xo

  5. Matt, I was a bedwetter and have had to get up several times per night to urinate for pretty much my entire life, so I’m VERY interested in this particular subject. I hope you will dive much deeper into pee STS.

  6. Any chance polyuria could be just related to a ridiculous water consumption? Over the past 6 months or so my thirst has been off the charts and I’ve been drinking ~2.5-3 gallons of liquid (water, juice, soda, etc) almost everyday (perhaps the excessive HFCS is part of the issue?). I wake up at night to pee like 3-4 times, but when I’m up I have the worst dry mouth and have to drink a glass of water to make it go away. With all of the liquid am I forcing low sugars and indirectly causing polyuria? Should I be forcibly restricting my water similar to RBTI at ~4oz/hr until 2 or 3pm? Waking up all the time is really pissing me off….I already wake up enough from my 2month old….. Do you have any tips (other than by willpower) on how to stave off thirst without drinking tons of liquid?

    • Bryan – I personally think you’re exactly right with wondering if you’re forcing yourself into a state of low sugars / polyuria. I used to be the same, drank ridiculous amounts of water every day and realised at one point the more I was drinking, the more I needed to drink! Matt’s blog and my subsequent jumping onto the RBTI wagon has however made this issue go away almost completely. It did take a week or so to stop feeling thirsty but now my body is so much happier, and I only drink around 50-60oz of fluids in a day (that includes drinking milk with meals and having soup once a day).
      If I were you I would try drinking smaller amounts during the day, then trying your best to not drink much of anything after 4pm or so. Give it a week and see if your body changes its pee-patterns; I’m betting it will. Best of luck :)

  7. I peed about 1.5 quarts every night for years, and never gave it much thought until my health took a rapid dive over the course of a few months. With the help of all the RBTI articles I finally made the connection between peeing, blood sugar issues, energy crashes, and mood swings. I used to fear starches and sugars too, or rather I believed that they weren’t necessary for optimal health. I’m glad I stopped listening to the “authorities” and started listening to my body. Well, actually, I was forced to listen to my body.

    Many of the symptoms of a blood sugar crash are related to sympathetic nervous system activation. Check out the Wiki page of ‘hypoglycemia’ for the adrenergic symptoms. The release of stress hormones can cause sweating. When I have blood sugar crashes my face will perspire and feel flushed. And I’ll get symptoms like increased heart rate and over-reactivity to noises and stressors in my environment. There’s nothing worse than the sounds of traffic during a blood sugar crash. I want to kill every person on a harley.

    As far as “simple sugars causing an insulin spike that stores fat.” Yeah, I was brainwashed about the whole carb-insulin thing by people like Dr. Mercola and Ron Rosedale and the rest of the low-carb world. The logic, although overly simplistic, makes a lot of sense at first glance, but all I can say is that my health didn’t start to improve until I made peace with carbohydrates. There is a LOT more to fat gain than eating simple sugars and carbs. There’s no such thing as good and bad foods. You can kill yourself by binging on simple sugars, or you can heal yourself by using them strategically to create balance in the body. I really had to deconstruct my belief that certain foods were inherently good or bad. A carrot juice diet can heal one person of cancer and fuck another person. Another thing to consider is that complex carbs react entirely different in the body compared to simple sugars, and although the tendency of a person from a paleo / low-carb background is to add fruit first, your body may in fact prefer complex starches.

  8. Please continue elaborating on this series Matt! It is, indeed, a frequent problem… I’ve suffered from heavy night sweats in the past (although, I was never able to pinpoint why at the time, nor now…) and, I’ve suffered periodically with bouts of nocturnal polyuria, most recently in fact, last night… Not eating low carbs by any means, but am exercising more intensely these days (yes, in a vain attempt to reduce fatmass Yiiiisssh). Is that the reason?
    Debate on…

  9. My daughter is 9 and wetting the bed. She eats ice cream. And cheese, not much meat. Usually it is late morning but sometimes as soon as 2hrs after going to sleep. Every 2 weeks or so, usually when she’s a bit under the weather. Any ideas? Thanks.

    • Sometimes gluten intolerance can cause bedwetting in kids. Just google it.

  10. Love the new website layout. Lately with RBTI my life is revolvIng around pee.. probably not ideal but you do end up learning a lot about yourself and how you feel from it. Since having a refractometer and keeping to a drinking schedule, you really start to see patterns and it becomes 2nd nature in understanding your needs for daily fluid and sugar intake. It really sounds like the person you mentioned above could use a refractometer to understand when their body is low on sugars. Then following the rules of the sugar would help resolve this. Also limiting fluid intake after 3pm would be huge too.

  11. Hi, great post as always.

    I do however have another take on the story. I’ve had a lot of problems with polyuria and various other stuff related to the same thing (i.e muscle spasms and insomnia). Last year I started taking larger amounts of vitamin D than I had ever done before. Probably around 6000 IU per day for several months. One thing that bothered me right away was *extreme* thirst, i.e drinking 2 liters of water a night and basically peeing it all out immediately. I tried “hydration solution” (saline+mineral solution) but the effect was the same. So I stopped vitamin D supplementation as I thought I was starting to develop hypercalcemia and the symptoms went away in a week. Of course, I’ve visited the health care system with all of these issues. For the past 2 years not a single doc (5) has had any idea what I’m talking about and has dismissed me as being completely healthy – despite that I two years ago had to call in sick a lot unable to work. That’s all over now, but only because I’ve fixed it myself.

    Recently I had really weird muscle twitches, ice cold sweaty hands/feet. I would get extremely thirsty and almost knocked out from eating a lot of potatoes – something I didn’t experience since leaving zero carb a year ago. Since vitamin D synthesis disappeared almost 2 months ago where I live, vitamin D once again came to mind.

    This time I discovered what took away the D-related thirst and all other side effects completely – a lot of calcium. Actually up to 6000-8000 mg a day for a few days (with 4000 IU D3) – without getting any stomach issues, actually the reverse happened – perfect bowel movements. Vitamin D and calcium resolved the muscle twitches in just a couple of days and after a week I felt as great as I did during the summer.

    I have resolved just about every issue by minerals in one way or the other this past year. Magnesium is a big issue for someone doing as much cardio as I do. So I’ve searched PubMed and other resources for some support of why it works so great for me. I found a lot of interesting stuff.

    For instance, vitamin D supplementation (3332 IU per day) increased testosterone by 25% in one study. Calcium supplementation (35mg/kg body weight) increased testosterone significantly in another study and magnesium (10mg/kg) increased testosterone significantly in another one. Magnesium supplementation increases blood glucose and glucose utilization in rats and lowers the heart rate of atheletes at the same wattage (prior to supplementation). And a lot of other interesting stuff.

    The last doc I visited said that neither calcium nor magnesium deficiency exists (believe it or not). If I’ve worked hard (which includes riding a bike a lot) and I’ve not eaten enough magnesium rich foods my legs stop working and I get out of breath easily. I’ve tested this on a stationary bicycle and magnesium supplementation lowers the heart rate and completely takes away what’s called oxygen depth, i.e when you feel muscles can not continue as hard early in the exericse or during sprints. When it feels tough and I’m overworked I can increase my watt/hour by around 15 watts by popping magnesium pills. Magnesium deficiency or not, it sure as hell makes a huge difference on how good I feel (subjective) and how I perform (an objective measurement).

    The refractometer measures minerals among other stuff (or mineral density I think?). RBTI is not my area, I just eat the stuff that make me produce the most watts and the best feeling. But, wasn’t Reams theory that all disease is the result of mineral deficiencies?

    However, if one is vitamin D deficient calcium rich foods (or supplements) would not be absorbed, calcium would not get high enough in the blood and the other side of the coin could be that you get slight hypocalcemia and/or hypomagnesemia from vitamin D therapy. Of course, then there’s the issue of everything else, boron, zink, iron, selenium, manganese, not to forget potassium – the sleeping pill number one if everything else is in wack.

    References to the claims herein can be found in recent posts on my blog (although in swedish).

  12. Hey Matt!

    Polyuria/Nocturia I know these guys too well. We have been aquainted a better part
    of 30 years.
    I am the one who this past summer had fallen to an all time low. Barely able to drag
    through a day. Haven’t worked now for over 2.5 years.
    Docs never helped with this unfortunate life sucking complication.
    While my body refused to assimilate the supplements of RBTI, and the lemonade furthered
    my “hypoglycemia” I gained insight into the cause of my “uria” companions.
    Thanks to my new best friend “Refractometer” He is the best!

    I have come a long way! My best friend “Refrac” has directed me to the foods that my body
    loves. Also, revealing so called health foods that were a drain to my system.

    I have since visited a holistic MD. I explained what I had learned about my body, and foods.
    The MD said “You are not absorbing B vitamins” She promptly injected my rear with three
    does of B’s, B-12 being the main concern. I now bi-weekly inject myself with large does of B-
    12. I also take a mega dose B complex.

    Life is so much better. The damage done to my brain from the low B’s/hypoglycemia is getting
    better everyday. I am now able to consume sugar again! :) I am off the couch! I have a way
    to go but, I see a clearing ahead.

    When I feel safe, meaning all residual nerve damage is healed. I plan to start RBTI again.

    To the e-mail poster,

    Please you are young, Stop the madness now before you do permanent damage.
    Coffee is a love of mine too. I still drink it. However, when I was young I thought coffee
    was better than food. I would drink black coffee all morning long. I wouldn’t eat anything
    until after 2 pm everyday. I thought this was fine. I wasn’t hungry.
    I thought if my body needed food it would let me know. Not true. Coffee supresses the
    Feed your body real food! Watch the fluid intake, especially after 2pm. Eat meals.
    Especially a good breakfast, and lunch. Dinner can be lighter. If you are like me, eat
    some carbs with the evening meal. Get to know my best friend “Refractometer.”
    And of course, hang out here with Matt, and his friends! :)
    Matt has done more for me, than many years of books, MD’s, Chiros, Naturopaths etc……….

  13. I still have to get up to pee at least once a night, maybe twice, despite the new RBTI rules. I check my ‘sugars’ and they’re never below two. So that can’t be the whole story. Before I would have agreed that I drink too much at night, but now what’s the reason? But I’m a frequent pee-er, even though it is much, much worse when the sugars crash. The crashing is especially obvious now that I drink in a metered fashion – I haven’t consumed any more liquid, but I suddenly have to pee again and again.

    I have suffered night sweats the last few years, since my health dropped 3 years ago. We’re talking having to change the sheets in the middle of the night type of sweating. Sometimes twice! I was worried I had leukemia it was so bad (supposed to be a warning sign). I’d never had that problem before. I’m not sure if it was triggered by the illness or the raw, no starch diet I switched to. It has abated somewhat since RRARF, but (for me) still comes back when I’m not getting enough sleep regularly. So if I go 3+ nights with poor sleep, I’ll sweat terribly until I catch back up.

    Both my boys wet the bed until nine. FINALLY just got over it in our house. Runs in my hubby’s family. Every single male was a bedwetter. So some of it could be genetics.

    Even somebody whom I sleep with but will not identify as the dh will experience enuresis about once a year. It’s terribly embarrassing for him (and icky for me). I’ve never figured out what the trigger is since it’s so infrequent. You can bet though that the last words out of my mouth every night are, “Did you go to the bathroom before you came to bed?”

    • I feel for the “guy you sleep with”, I had my last accident when I was about 15 years old! Talk about embarrassment, my boyfriend at the time, was lying next to me!

  14. It’s a really good reminder, this–frequent urination is definitely one of the hallmarks of the imbalance caused by an eating disorder, for example.

    I’m curious: I rarely have to pee at night anymore, because I’ve greatly reduced what I drink in the afternoon. However, in the mornings, often especially when I’m working out hard, I have to pee frequently and urgently. My ND looked at my pee and said that it was possibly just because I’m consuming a lot of liquid (about two quarts or so of herbal tea in the am). But if I don’t drink that much in the am, I sometimes won’t poop (which is a weird change–I hadn’t had a problem with that for almost a year, until recently, may be the meds).

  15. Sorry–so my question was whether my ‘pee’ situation might be a blood sugar thing also.

    Two other questions for Matt: first, I’m so intrigued by your telling that you’re eating less calories now, while eating to appetite, on this system. What I’m wondering is whether someone like me, who eats rather few calories to begin with, would spontaneously reduce her calories as a result of doing RBTI full on.

    The second question: is there a way to subscribe to comments with this new look?

      • Thanks, Undertow–but a wordpress blog like this should have an option where you subscribe to the comments when you comment, right?

        • Yep it should, Matt said that Kash (site developer) would be looking into it at some point…

          That URL above will work for anyone wanting to pick the RSS feed for comments though.

          • awesome–thanks for updating me!

  16. While this polyuria thing is new to me in the last few weeks (since stopping the progesterone and starting it back up, not eating as much after 2 pm), I was also a kid who struggled until I was 8 with bedwetting. I have always been a very deep sleeper. Especially when I was a kid.

    Drinking water has always been something I haven’t enjoyed, as I shared with you the other day. It’s like pouring water on a dry sponge. That lemonade deal sounds like pure hell. When life hands you lemons, do not make yourself a lemonade prison!

    But anyway, I tried the sugar last night — twice. Not sure what times, but the first one, I took the sugar and got back into bed ASAP. Second time it was starting to get light outside, about 6:45, and I thought maybe I should be getting out of bed, so took a while before I took the sugar. Eventually fell back into a very deep sleep until about 9:45 a.m.

    I still wonder if this is related to my Bum Kidney. I had gluten two days in a row, and one of my “having eaten gluten” symptoms is having to pee at night (along with pain in that kidney).

    I swear Vitamin D plays into this as well. But I won’t go trying to superimpose any science on this wackness.

    • Hi AMY, Hope things are well since your comment here in November. I’m wondering how it’s going? I found this site because I’ve experienced 3 or 4 nights of excess urination, starting around 10 pm, since I switched to a different Progesterone Cream. No eating disorder, here. I don’t seem to experience hypoglycemia. I really think it’s the progesterone. Any thoughts? Thanks!

  17. I had this problem when I restricted calories. I’m pretty sure it’s related to excess cortisol. Yep, polyuria is yet another bad thing caused by too much cortisol.

  18. I tried not drinking much water during my disastrous experimentation with RBTI. It did not help me at all. I definitely peed less, but I felt awful. I am back to drinking about half a gallon of water a day, and I don’t think I pee abnormally often. Maybe I’ll wake up once in the night having to pee, usually I don’t though. What does cause nighttime peeing for me is any time I’m feeling anxious at night. Anxiety and needing to pee are tied together, I think.

    (BTW, since some of you asked me to keep you posted, the TCM herbs/acupuncture seems to be going really well so far. I’m not 100% yet, but I’m gaining a lot of energy. I feel like I have enough energy again for cleaning, cooking, working, etc. instead of just sleeping on the couch all day. My personality is back to normal. I feel like myself again, just more tired than normal. This is a huge improvement. Some of this could have to do with the anti-candida probiotics, too. I don’t have my hormone results yet from the endocrinologist – I had my blood tests done and my follow-up is in another week to see the results. He thinks I have adrenal fatigue and gave me some supplements to help – which I realized have gelatin, sigh, but what can you do.)

    • I felt pretty awful for about a month. Mostly because of the weird meal schedule shift I think. Then my body got used to it and I didn’t have any of those problems. Everything is back in working order and I have noticed substantial improvements that I simply couldn’t figure out how to get on my own.

      I too have noticed not necessarily anxiety causing the need to pee, but any stressful situation. Arguments and stuff like that especially. And I can stop the frequent urination in those situations just by eating something like a date or few bites of fruit. So I think it’s more the general stress response that triggers it. Not a particular emotion in and of itself.

      It swings both ways too. Low sugar can cause frequent urination and anxiety, just as anxiety can cause low sugar and frequent urination.

      • @Matt, I tried it for 2 months, and just kept feeling more awful. My body did not get used to it, in fact it seemed to get less and less tolerant. I followed the advice about having some fruit or juice if I had a BS dip, and it made my BS soar and then crash lower. Overall, my hypoglycemia, candida and potentially adrenal fatigue (if that’s what I have, otherwise maybe my thyroid, don’t have hormone tests back yet – whatever is causing this horrible fatigue) got much worse. Insomnia got worse, too.

        This was just following the general meal patterns and avoiding no-no foods, and drinking less water. I took min-col for a bit, too. For whatever reason, it did not do good things for my body. I ended up barely able to get off the couch, non-functioning. My brain was so foggy I couldn’t think straight and I was constantly dizzy. Before I began I was at a MUCH higher level of health. I had a very stressful time at work July-Sep, so the combination might have made things worse.

        Anyway, the TCM, plus eating regular, balanced meals and taking probiotics seems to be re-balancing things again, thankfully, and I feel like a normal human again. The TCM doc also told me to not have too much dairy or sweets, and I’d been having tons of dairy and a decent amount of sweets following the RBTI plan – maybe they were part of the problem.

        • this sounds exactly like me.
          Diagnosed with Hashimoto (autoimmune hypothyroidism but no medication needed yet), and also mild adrenal insufficiency, the meal schedule made me feel like crap, caused severe hypoglycemia-like symptoms, extreme anxiety, and insomnia.
          lots of carbs have never made me feel good. I don’t like snacking at all, but it seems I function better with 2 medium sized meals (lunch and dinner) and 2 smaller (breakfast and aternoon).
          I ‘ve come to believe that autoimmune endocrine issues do not respond well to intermittent fasting of any kind.
          Sadly RBTI is not for me.
          Good luck to the rest of you.

        • Did you have just a single bite of fruit? If working with Challen he would have told you to eat a “piece of fruit” which means “a bite of fruit” to a normal person. Eating a whole piece of fruit does cause instability in that scenario, and can pretty much ruin the whole program for someone – as following his “rules of the sugar” properly seems to be where half of the effectiveness lies, especially for a chronic low sugar person.

          • I didn’t have just a bite for the most part. My blood sugar would be so horribly low that it felt like it took a lot more to bring it up. Maybe I did it wrong, who knows, but I think the not eating much at night set me up for problems with BS. The hypoglycemia has been significantly better since I started eating proper meals again, with a small afternoon snack.

            I wasn’t working with Challen, so I can’t say if the program would have worked for me, but the DIY approach sure didn’t. With my ED history I don’t think it was healthy for me to be so restrictive with eating habits either so I’m not inclined to try with Challen.

          • How soon should that “single bite of fruit” bring up the number? I too am peeing every 15-20 minutes when my sugar drops but the bite or piece of fruit, or even tsp of sugar isn’t bringing up the sugars all that quickly and I do test every time I pee.

          • Carla – It’s not necessarily designed to shoot the number right up. Rather, it is designed to provide sugar to the body during low sugar episodes so that it doesn’t have to borrow sugar from the the system – which is thought of as being very draining and debilitating when it happens again and again and again over time.

        • You should try the Body Ecology plan for candida and adrenal fatigue. Then once you get this over-run of your immune system under control you should go back to RBTI. The overall feeling bad is your body trying to purge and detox. It isn’t uncommon, but if your body is suffering from years of a systemic yeast infection the idea of all of the toxicity of that much fungus dying might be overwhelming.Good luck regardless of your course of action. Feel better!

      • So funny you mention this, because the ONLY time I have polyuria is when I’m watching an intense movie in the theater. I literally have to pee every 15 to 20 minutes, even if I am not drinking any fluids. :) I’ll pack candy next time!

        • Haha. Yeah I get it after big arguments and stuff!

          • Hi Matt! Are you saying that nocturia can be related to stress? How does this relate to use of progesterone cream, for example. I’ve been up and down with adrenal fatigue in the last 2 years, and now not exercising and eating more crappy foods, I find my sex hormones out of balance. Started supplementing with progesterone cream while I’m starting a new walking and new healthier eating habit. Have been up to pee 4-6 times a night, for the past 4 nights. Not just when sleeping – starts around 10pm, whether I’m trying to sleep or not. Thanks for any help:)

          • Yes, nocturia is related to stress. The progesterone cream must really be harming you. Any kind of hormonal modulation like that can ruin a person’s health.

    • Amy–glad to see your update and especially that you’re feeling so much better.

      Just think of Ray Peat when you think of the gelatin in the capsules!

  19. Oh, BTW, sorry OT again, but Veiled Glory, did you say you have used nettle to help remineralize? I thought I might try that, too. It’s supposed to help adrenals, and goodness knows I need help in the mineral department, too. Did you use nettle leaf? An infusion?

    • Not Veiled Glory, but I drink nettle tea fairly frequently–they grow like crazy around where we live, so I harvest by the bushel each year. I love the taste–even better when they’re fresh and you can eat like a veggie.

      • Thanks, Ela. Have you noticed any benefits from it health-wise?

        • Amy–I don’t know. It’s hard to tell because so many other variables and I haven’t done it consistently enough. Maybe I do feel better when I drink it regularly. I’m on the road right now, but when I get home, I’ll take it daily and let you know if I see anything!

  20. Excellent topic, and I really feel for the person with anorexia who wrote to Matt. I had the same issue. It’s all about overcoming mental barriers, as the preconceived false notions like “carbs are bad” are very difficult to surmount. I would suggest to the young buck to read as much as he can about RBTI. The whole idea of keeping sugars stable and eating a big lunch could work wonders for him.

    Now to another topic…I have finished Beddoe’s (fairly expensive) book about RBTI, and I must admit that his version resonates better in my soul than RBTI Version: Waychoff. He talks about the lack of research into GMO’s, his “no” list is much smaller than Challen’s, etc. That being said, the underlying principles I’m taking away from RBTI are showing me that a perfectly-functioning body (with numbers near perfect for 2+ years) will have no problems with the added toxicity than modern industry has burdened our bodies with.

    So is everyone here still totally against Beddoe because of what I’ve read in the comments section of earlier posts? I must admit that although I’ve been into RBTI for a long time, I decided to learn as much as I could before starting the program, and I’m still only really incorporation a few things while I see my numbers improving each week. I’m eating the big lunch, very small mostly-vegetable dinner, no sweets after 2pm, Cal-Lactate, Min-Col, Dolomite, Activated B-6 and B-12, Lemon Water/Distilled Water….(recovering vegan).

    Keep with it Matt, I’m writing about RBTI as well right now and I’m really glad to have stumbled upon your blog.


  21. Sorry, Amy. I’ll go back to my other monaker for simplicity’s sake. You can be Amy. ;)

    I was going to say that, too — from my experience with low-carb, I know that the night-time anxiety is related to cortisol/adrenal issues, which would also be tied to the urination issue. Magnesium and potassium used to quell the anxiety for me, but I’ve never tied it to urination before — just the gluten.

    I slept better last night – did take one large tsp sugar under the tongue the first time I woke. But the really interesting thing is that my temp is creeping up again. That could be from adding back progesterone, though. Real controlled experimentation I’m doing. Not.

    I made pumpkin muffins for breakfast (without cutting the sugar like I usually do), Matt, but could use a reminder — buckwheat banana bread? Is that what you said?

    Have fun storming the conf– I mean, have fun at the conference! ^_^

    • I’m still awaiting moderation. I must have been more offensive than usual. ??

      I did say the word “gluten.” :/

      • Hard to approve comments when you are not on the computer! Sorry.

    • Oh yes, buckwheat banana bread it is Goomama. I will have fun storming the conference, and hope Masterjohn doesn’t get the wrong idea when I give him a big hug and say it was from you.

      • See now, most of these comments didn’t show up on RSS. :( And how come my comments show up right away if they have to be approved? Or have you just auto-approved me since I’m so special?

        My scroll finger is tired.

      • Chris is an open minded young man. I am sure he will like your hug, even it was from you. See you FRIDAY! wow!

        • You can have your own hug and leave me out of it! ;) Maybe I can get my own hug someday. Chris’ article on Activator-X/K2 was a major game-changer for me.

          I slept through the night last night. You know what was different? I had a big dinner. It was a big dinner that included a lot of soup, horchata, and guacamole (so mostly liquid dinner, which I would think would cause more peeing, not less). It was an early dinner (5:30 or so), but I did not wake even a single time before the sun rose. You say the first few months on RBTI were rough on you — so far it was good,except for the crummy sleep. Was this an effect you had from the bitty dinner? Also, I did not wake up this morning feeling nauseated, like I have recently.

          See, this makes me think dinner = good. But it could just be a honeymoon. I did have that 2″ of hair grown in 2 months while eating decent dinner. ;)

          Oh, I did coincidentally run out of adrenal glandular the day before I only woke up once. Maybe I’m just done with that stuff now. Maybe cold turkey is better than less and less turkey. Maybe that’s why my sleep was better (though the hubby said he slept a lot better last night, too, and he has never been on any glandulars).

          Halfway through the book… ;)

    • Thanks, Goomama!

  22. Hey Everyone! Matt, congrats on the new site :)

    I used to be a very anti-juice person until I read about sipping it here during sugar crash symptoms. It’s really helped me get back to sleep in the middle of the night. However, if I’ve had a really stressful day or an argument late at night, then I will bolt awake between 3 and 5 am and no amount of juice will help me get back to sleep or quiet my racing heart and thoughts. My naturopath says this has to do with the cortisol/adrenal cycle. Depending on the time of the month, these times will also be accompanied with night sweats. During arguments, I usually become immediately thirsty and scary cold. During certain times of the month, I’m not sure what has precipitated what: biology causing anxiety or anxiety causing a biological response.

    I haven’t tried sugar under the tongue, but a date might be a good idea. Something I’ve noticed lately: I just started eating sugar (dessert) during lunch and I find I crash harder later on. For me, I think it’s easier to just skip dessert as I’m not that into it anyway. After 4 years of eating sweet fruit, it’s damn amazing to eat non-sweet food.

    Amy, thanks for your update :) On the topic of herbs, William commented on Tran’s forum that he drinks Sir Jason Winters Tea, because of the wonderful things it does to the numbers. I just started drinking some this week.

    I have to say that RBTI is looking better day after day. I think my mind is made up to try it, but I’m going to wait just a wee bit longer, even though I don’t really want to wait anymore. I’m just too flippin’ curious about it all. But I think I’m actually waiting to get Lorelei’s read on it, since she is so refreshingly honest. Which reminds me, I should get over to RBTI Notes and catch up….

    And hey Lorelei, my 80s movie quote was from “Suburbia.” Worst movie ever! Only redeeming feature is a young Flea from RHCP and all the non-actors playing themselves, thus ensuring terrible acting. Worst part is the attempt at creating sympathy for the poor, young punks by appealing to racist and homophobic value systems. Hubbaduh? Only in America….;)

    • I forgot to mention too, that the juice has helped hugely with frequent urination. That was my original point and I forgot to write it: frequent urination has gone way, way down since I’ve been sipping juice.

    • Thanks for your confidence in me :) I’ve actually been thinking all weekend about how RBTI has been treating me, and especially after (the other) Amy’s comment. I’ve been trying to sort it out it my mind.

      As a recap, I switched meal timing and started avoiding no foods at the beginning of Sept. Started drinking distilled water at the beginning of Oct, started the lemonade protocol two weeks later, and started Min-Col last week. I only have a refractometer and pH strips. My sugars started out with a huge wobble between 0 and 6-7. My UpH varies wildly between less than 6 and more than 8 (strips are not too precise in the outer ranges).

      So, after this many weeks, I have to say that RBTI doesn’t seem to have done anything for me. If anything, I feel worse too. My energy has plummeted even farther, and it’s not just a subjective feeling. I can’t do some of the things I was doing before. I expect some periods of detox (which I most definitely have had, and they are quite different compared to being ill), but I expect it to be two steps forward, one step back, not vice versa. I am in a lot of pain, to the point where I just want to sleep all day (but can’t – have to take another drink in 30 mins!). Not one part of me seems better, health-wise. I haven’t lost any weight, and along with the lower energy… well, let’s just say that I’m on my way to being Sir Mix-A-Lot’s favorite girl. The last few days, I have been so hungry and experienced blood sugar type hypoglycemia (must eat now or will die!) so badly that I’ve eaten about four times as much when it was finally meal time, since I was shaking so badly and couldn’t sate my hunger.

      The only thing I could come up with was that I may be calmer. I didn’t freak out when my husband broke my special, expensive plate last week. I wasn’t even really that sad. And then I realized that I am not necessarily calmer… I think I’m just apathetic.

      Oh, and I looked at a chocolate bar a few weeks ago and wanted to puke (I used to eat vast amounts of chocolate every night). But then, it was one of those days where everything made me want to puke.

      I thought I was doing well numbers-wise, based on Brix and pH at least. I has a week where the numbers were spot on every day around 11ish. And since then I’ve been unable to control my Brix (how many spoonfuls of sugar can one person eat in a day?) and my pH has swung wildly all over the place.

      I can’t blame it on anything really, since I haven’t changed what I’ve eaten. I’m so very anal about what I eat that I make everything from scratch. Case in point, I just baked some pumpkins and will later grind some grain to make pumpkin bread. There is no pork or bad oils to blame here. (And yes I’ll mix that grain with white flour so it’s not too hard to digest!).

      So there are two ways of looking at this. The first is, I only have half a set of numbers and no consultant, so I’m not really doing RBTI properly. I don’t have the necessary supplements either. Thus, I wouldn’t expect miraculous improvements.

      On the other hand, according to what Challen has said, simply avoiding the no foods and drinking distilled water should improve a person’s health. And I feel distinctly worse, not better. My husband was extremely happy to hear me say it yesterday since that was his conclusion (he knows better than to point something out to me!).

      So what now? I’m loathe to buy more parts of a kit since I’m not really sure it’s worth it. At first I thought it was, since I could see obvious signs of detox, but now, I don’t know. On the other other other hand, I may not have improvements until I do it properly. And I can see the worth of the refractometer (even if I can’t control my sugar, at least I can monitor it). I’m still drawn to the “why ask when you can know” part of it, and I can see it playing out. For example, my feet ached so bad I couldn’t walk, and sure enough, I was suddenly terribly alkaline. I was having the runs like no tomorrow, and yep, I was super acidic. I suddenly had to pee 4 times in an hour and my Brix was down to 0.2. That is kinda cool, but – so what, if my health isn’t improving? Sigh.

      And this is why I need to win a free kit and a consultant – so that I can see if there are improvements to be had, and describe my experience in my very verbose way!

      • This is exactly what happened to me, and I personally would urge you to stop before you get even worse. I feel like it totally ruined my health, and as I’ve described I’m still working on getting back. Even though the last few days have been much better, today, for example, I had to sleep most of the day, zero energy. Now it feels like 2 steps forward, 1 step back, but at least that’s a sign of something that’s moving in the right direction. RBTI was the opposite.

        I wish I’d listened to the warning signs earlier. I don’t think RBTI is for everyone. Maybe you would benefit from TCM, too.

      • Yikes! Not what I expected to hear. Sounds like a horrible experience Lorelei!
        After hearing about your and Amy’s experiences, it makes me wonder if doing the two major changes simultaneously are just too much for some people. For example, I didn’t really feel any differences with the RBTI big lunch change, but I was already avoiding most of the no-foods anyways and I haven’t eaten pork in years. I think Challen is the only guy who does the big lunch thing and other RBTI folks don’t follow that schedule. It just might be too much for some people’s bodies to do all at once. I don’t know…just throwing out ideas. I wish we knew more about the long-term effects either way…..

        • Keep in mind I only have half the numbers and no consultant, so I may be doing things wrong. On the other hand, Challen has said that anybody will improve by avoiding the no foods and drinking distilled water, so… what to make of that? Even my daughter said yesterday that this new diet was a total fail for me… If I were you, I’d wait longer to see what happens with everybody if you can, since a few months isn’t really enough time to get a good idea. I was pretty desperate to get better otherwise I would have waited longer too. Anyhow, check out the debate over on Tran’s. I get to be the devil’s advocate over there. I’d call myself ornery, but then that might be awkward with Ornery’s Wife.

        • SJ, I suspect people who run into trouble with simply shifting their meal patterns are going about it all wrong.
          you can’t go from eating three squares to a situation 24 hours later eating 75 % of your food in one sitting and doing things like starving till the big meal time and unhappily eating veggies only at a supper table.

          • Hey Chief, I read that you were in Northern BC. Do you ever come to Vancouver? Are you doing RBTI? It’d be cool to meet some time if you are ever in this neck of the woods (and yeah, if I can borrow your RBTI kit). I’m using you so that I can learn about my pee. When did life get so weird? But it’s not so utilitarian as all that. Offline connections are way cooler than online anyway :)

  23. Okay, so I understand that peeing frequently is not a good thing, but what if you are not drinking enough and your urine is bright yellow? I am a pretty active person and I feel as though I never drink enough water– especially since I try to drink only distilled water. My distiller makes 1 gallon a day, which I thought should be more than plenty of water. But I always feel so dehydrated drinking tons of water and my urine is still pretty darn yellow. Do I just keep upping the gallons?

  24. Dr. Beddoe’s book has helped me getting started. Dr. Beddoe attempted to bridge the gap between mainstream science and RBTI terminology. Disadvantage is that it is not 100% in line with the terms of Dr. Reams and Dr. Manthei, and also not quite in line with mainstream science.
    Whether he entirely succeeded… the opinions are divided.

  25. Add me to the list of people who would like to learn more about this topic. (It’s like a long line…waiting to use the bathroom…)

    I’ve never had polyuria, but a low-carb diet and an intense exercise regimen (lots of distance running, swimming, and weightlifting) used to make me awaken once every night to go to the bathroom.

    I’ve had some success in preventing myself from awakening by eating a small snack before bed — just a little white rice with some coconut oil.

    Sir Eat-a-Lot

  26. I’m so glad you posted something about pee pee. Although my issue has nothing to do with frequency. I have a pretty regular bladder just going once in the morning and another time or two during the day unless I’m drinking more than normal. My problem is my PNS (pee notification system). About 3 months ago I started noticing that the normal signs that I have to urinate started to diminish. I mean that my physical cues that my body tells me that it’s time to go pee just started decreasing in intensity. For the first 31 years of my life I got the same feeling every time I needed to go but now I almost have to think about the last time I went so I’ll know of I need to go. Another way I can tell if I need to go is if I’m riding in a car and hit a bump I can feel it in my bladder then I know it’s full or if I press on my bladder and can feel that it’s full. I don’t know if it has something to do with what I’m eating or what. I haven’t exercised at all in months so it’s not that. My suspicion is that I have partly burned out my PNS because of so many years years of “holding it” and not urinating at the first signs of it. I don’t have access to a bathroom from 8:00 to 2:00 every day (besides finding a lil patch of woods somewhere or using a “brief relief” disposable urine bag when in town). Now I’m paranoid it’s gonna get worse and I’m going to start having to buy some Depends like Matt does when he is on a long road trip.

    Also the last few weeks I have noticed the same thing for my BOMENS (bowel movement notification system). I have noticed a few times I have no notification unless I sit down and then it’s Katy bar the door. Do they make adult diapers?

    Also, if you happened to watch the Game of the Century this past Saturday night, how in the world can any ref in his right mind call that an interception? And LSU’s lil honey badger #7 needs to be suspended for that crap he did. I think there will be a rematch and it will be for the championship. Oklahoma State and LSU? Please!

    • I’m replying because I feel a story like that deserves a response (I’m just not sure what it should be!).

      • That’s all I was expecting. Not much else to say to my comments most of the time. But thank you!!

  27. Supposed to be PENS (pee notification system). Sorry about that. I’m so stupid sometimes.

  28. About comments… it would be nice if there was a button to click which would sort the comments in order of posting. That way we could quickly see if there are new comments to read (I find that not all of them show up on RSS), but you could still reply to a specific person. Since I’m not blog-savvy, I don’t know if that’s doable, but it seems like it should be.

    • if you log in here it puts the comments in order of arrival.


      then you can click on the specific comment and it takes you back to the conversation as well as listing how many new comments are in.

      • That’s how I do it, but it seems to drop some comments, so I still have to scroll thru anyhow.

        BTW, hi Chief! Where in BC were you?

        • Hi Lorelei, I was in the “nothing but trees borders alaska part”, you know, a harsh environment where Bear grylls would most likely deem water recycling necessary :)

          North of Prince Rupert BC south of Juneau Alaska , no other way to describe it lol

          • Chief, I have had visions of your return and when awaking from from them I was drenched in urine. I’m glad you are back.

      • Thanks

  29. Lorelei –

    When I started doing the systematic water drinking, my “sugars” varied quite a bit as well. I have some thrush on my tongue that would start to clear up and then come back. After a couple of days, I decided to apply some common sense and realized that the salt number affects the “brix” reading.

    What I mean by that is if you have a high salt reading, your optimal brix (in my opinion) will not be 1.5-2. You have to adjust that based on your salt reading. I started following Beddoe’s salt correction table here:
    I still think that chart might not be subtracting enough to find the true “sugar” reading b/c I started to use it and my adjusted brix was still over 2 yet my thrush started clearing up a lot and would almost be completely gone sometimes. I still have a little but it looks to be on its way out (Not taking any rbti sups but avoiding the no nos and trying to follow the meal timing.)

    Now I don’t doubt that 1.5-2 is the “perfect” number but good luck trying to maintain that range with a high salt reading. You’ll probably find yourself suffering from low sugar symptoms and your sugars will go all over the place. Since adjusting my brix readings, my sugar’s don’t swing very much besides being high in the mornings.

    Another thing that can cause your brix values to go on a roller coaster is drinking too much water. Since my salts were high, I tried to drink just 4oz of distilled water every 30min to bring them down. That caused large swings so I tried to drink just 2oz every 30min but with work, it was too hard to maintain so I just drink 4oz every hour stopping if my brix goes too low & taking a bite of fruit or eating some sugar if necessary. Depending on your height, weight or just your body chemistry, 4oz might be to much for a person to handle and cause a drop & eventual spike is sugar so if you still are getting large peaks and valleys, you should try doing just 3oz every hour.

    Unfortunately, in order to do this you will need to get one of those conductivity meters. You could try just following my water advice above and if your sugars still swing a lot, lower the amount of water that you take at one time and if you can be anal, maybe try smaller amounts every 30min to lessen the “shock” on the body.

    After reading that some might ask “well how does Challen get results?” If you follow Challen’s or Matt’s advice, you’ll eventually get your salts down based on the drinking so then your sugars will be in the perfect range and you’ll start to feel better. I think the way I do it is a little better b/c while they both will eventually get you to the same place, doing it the way I said will prevent you from feeling like shit until your salts are low enough to match the “perfect” sugars range.

    We need somebody with a scientific background and an open mind to break down the salt and brix readings. I know you piss out hormones and it looks like they raise the brix based on the RBTI vs DHEA post. I’m not sure if the hormones would raise the salt reading or not. I’d hope they do so that you can just rely on the salt correction table but I don’t even know how the damn conductivity meter works…I just stick it in my pee. I’m wondering if you’re a women on the pill, how that would affect your brix readings. You might have an elevated brix so your perfect range might be 2-3 instead of 1.5-2. Based off my experience and the fact that the salts will contribute to the brix number, I think people definitely need to factor that in when they try to get their sugars stable and perfect.

    I wonder if this has been discussed on Matt and Brock’s RBTI facebook group. I sent a request in a couple of days ago but haven’t checked to see if it’s been accepted. I’ve been lurking here for a couple of months now but I’ll probably start posting more in the future. I have a lot of thoughts on RBTI and possible ways to improve it, but for right now, I’m going to stick to what Matt’s seen work.

    Matt, if you haven’t accepted my request yet, can I please join your pee party?

    TLDR: The salts affect the brix. If you have high salts, your ideal brix will not be 1.5-2 but something higher. Try Beddoe’s salt correction table and if you still get big swings, try lowering the amount of water you drink by an ounce or spacing it out over two times an hour vs just once.

    • Michael-

      Amen brother! I came to the same conclusion after seeing that my sugar crash symptoms start to really pick up as the refractometer reading drops below 2.0. 2.0-2.5 typically feels more “ideal” to my body. At 1.5 I am grouchy and my feet are cold, amongst other symptoms. If my salt reading was 6-7c, 1.5 would probably feel great, but I usually hover above 10 when my “sugar” number is 1.5-ish.

      • Thanks for the info Michael. I do believe a conductivity meter will be next on the list, especially since more than one person has brought up the salt/brix ratio. I suppose if I decide RBTI is just too goofy to continue with, I can have fun measuring the conductivity of ocean water or something.

        Chemistry nerd response to what a conductivity meter does – what conducts electricity? Elemental metals, strong acids, and dissolved ionic compounds (also known as salts, but not necessarily the same as table salt – salts are a huge category that includes any ionic compound). So that’s why the conductivity meter measures “salts”, and you need to have one that measures EC (electrical current). If I’m stating the obvious, sorry.

        I feel better at lower Brix, around 1. Could my salts be too low? I rarely drink water since I tend to drop to 0 pretty easily. Hmm, more food for thought.

        • I have a basic understanding of how the conductivity meter works but I was curious if it would pick up the hormones that get excreted. I thought they can be methylated, acetylated, sulphated or glucoronidated. Not sure if those substances would be picked up on the conductivity meter or not. (I’ve learned a little biochemistry from my interest in health but there are huge gaps in my understanding of it. I plan to go back to the beginning and learn the basics then work my way up.)

          Are you still using sea salt or unrefined salt? I have a thought on why it might be on the no-no list. Unfortunately, this involves knowlege in organic chemistry which I have very little to none of but since you are a chemistry nerd, I was hoping to get your input on it.

          Are the minerals in unrefined salt inorganic? If so, then maybe that is another reason why it is bad for you. Recently, I read an article talking about the difference between inorganic vs organic arsenic. This was brought about by some episode Dr. Oz did about arsenic in apple juice. You can read the article here (I highly recommend Jon Barron’s newsletters; good stuff!)
          That article got me thinking about why unrefined salt might not be optimal. Of course I won’t go much more into in b/c I’m not sure if I’m even right about inorganic minerals being in it and I do realize that not all inorganic minerals are harmful. It was just a thought that came to me and I’m curious if there might be some truth to it.

          • Michael, I figured you knew that already (but then not everybody does, so probably somebody got use out of it). Keep in mind that I have been a mom out of science for 10 years, so I may be out of date or have forgotten something, but I’m fairly sure that hormones, whether modified or not, will not conduct electricity (and therefore won’t show up with a conductivity meter). To conduct electricity, a compound almost always has to be ionic (some strong acids are conductive), and organic compounds are almost never ionic. To be ionic means that the compound disassociates in water into ions, and organic molecules are covalently bound (do not break apart without an energy input). There can be organic salts – a small part disassociates in water – but generally it is very weak and barely conductive, and it would be so negligible that it would not affect the conductivity reading compared to all the ionic salts in urine.

            As for hormones affecting Brix, the refractometer measures total dissolved solids – salts and hormones and sugars and proteins and everything else. My guess is since sugars and salts are the preponderant portion of what is dissolved, the rest is negligible in it’s effect on the Brix reading. I suppose if there was a huge excretion of hormones it might affect it… I don’t really know the proportions, so I can’t say. Some people are saying that their… ummm… girl blood… doesn’t seem to affect the readings either, but I can’t say I’ve verified that for myself.

            I did switch to regular salt, although I’m not sure about it (and it tastes so nasty). Until I get a conductivity meter, I can’t really test. There has been some discussion that what Reams thought of as sea salt is not the same as what we would call sea salt (Celtic or Himalayan). I know some people do use those (Rosemary and William) and they say it doesn’t show up in the numbers. But then some people who would know what real sea salt is (I think RobA? can’t remember) say it showed up in their numbers according to Mippa.

            The article about arsenic was interesting, but in my mind leaves out the most important factor – while the arsenic may have been covalently bonded to the pesticide, it sure as heck doesn’t mean the pesticide in and of itself is safe! Just that we’re not consuming free arsenic. What the article meant was that in it’s elemental or ionic state (easily disassociates in water) it can react more readily that in an organic molecule, where it is covalently bound (can only break apart in a chemical reaction). Anyhow…

            As for the organic-ness… organicity… of sea salt. To be organic means a complex molecule with centrally bonded carbons. There are some other rules too, but that is the most basic. Therefore minerals, by definition, are not organic. None of the calcium supplements recommended are ‘organic’. None of the minerals we’re obtaining from food are ‘organic’. (However they’re often found with other factors important in nutrition, most of which we probably don’t know even about, which is why real food is your best source of nutrition). Sea salt is 98% the ionic compound sodium chloride, but also has a hundred-ish other ionic compounds such as sodium iodide and potassium iodide and potassium chloride and magnesium chloride and magnesium iodide and various calcium salts and phosphate salts and the list goes on and on. Table salt is 99% sodium chloride. It almost always contains additives – about 0.01% of Potassium Iodide , sugar (added to stabilize iodine and as anti-caking chemical), and aluminum silicate for easy flow (which may be detrimental to your health).

            I am honestly not sure what the deal with sea salt is. Almost every other RBTI food rule I can accept because there is some merit to it, but the sea salt one leaves me baffled. The claim that sea salt has seven different salts is unsubstantiated. I”m not saying the rule is wrong – just that the explanation is. In fact, I’m fairly certain that some of the ionic compounds (or salts – remember every ionic compound is called a salt) found in sea salt are also in the calcium supplements RBTI recommends. So what the heck is going on?

            Sorry if I was either too simple or too complex.

            I attempt really hard to ignore the ‘basic ‘science’ of RBTI because Reams was obviously a traveler from an alternate dimension where there was friction between ions which caused energy, and atoms have different parts than here on Earth. Possibly L. Ron Hubbard’s space people brought him here.

          • Lorelei – The reply button doesn’t appear at the end of your comment so I figured the next best thing was to reply to my last one to keep our conversation localized.

            Thanks for the 101 on ionic and organic compounds. Like I said before, I just know tidbits of biochemistry from the reading I’ve done in the past. This sometimes causes me to come up with dumb ideas because I lack a true understanding of the subject matter (see my comment above lol). I definitely want to learn chemistry though. Do you know of a good learning resource besides opening up a textbook?

            As for the arsenic article…
            I realize what the article was saying. I think Jon would be one of the last people advocating spraying your crops with pesticides, organic or not. He’s even anti bottle juice so I think you would share a lot of his views on health. (I agree with him on a lot but like Matt, feel that context is everything.) It just made me think of sea salt and how it might be bad if it contains these more reactive inorganic compounds.

            You may want to try using pickling salt which should be free of those additives. If you do that, you want to be sure you’re getting enough iodine in your diet. Guess you could try Algazim. I’m familiar with Dr. Brownstein’s work with iodine and just got Kharrazian’s book on thyroid disorders so that’s another part of the puzzle that I’m going to try to fit with RBTI in the future. Supplementing with iodine can be bad for people with Hashimoto’s but apparently adequate selenium can prevent that. Both of these nutrients seem to be depleted in most of our soils so it all kinda goes back to the remineralization theory of Reams and having that balance between everything.

            Like Matt said, it’s probably a good idea to ignore the “science” behind RBTI. RBTI appears to work and it’s human nature to try to rationalize things so you end up getting people like me who don’t really understand all the science giving wild-ass explanations for how things they do not understand work. In my case, I try to make it clear that I’m guessing not dictating.

            Going back to your previous comment, you said you feel better when your “sugars” are at 1. Not sure if your salts would be too low. Supposedly, if they go too low compared to your sugar then you’ll have coordination issues.

            Maybe you could do a post over at the rbtinotes forum on your “sugar” numbers throughout the day. I’d like to see you post a day where you do not do the systematic drinking so we could get a better feel for what your current natural rhythm is. Without the salt meter and adjusting your “sugars”, it’s too hard to find any pattern b/c you’ll probably end up forcing your “sugars” too low and then after you compensate with fruit or sugar, you might see a big rise after so that manipulation will throw off your current rhythm. I think right now you’re probably drinking too much plain water and causing your sugars to crash which isn’t good for your “reserve energy”. I think taking a break from the water/lemonade until you get the salt meter would help you out. At the very least, cut back on the amount of plain water that you are drinking.

          • Not all of us can be chemistry nerds. Do you know how chemists do it? Periodically. Hahaha. If you don’t get it, it’s ok.

            People seem to like this website http://www.khanacademy.org/ They have videos on many subjects. I think there’s some chemistry too. If you want a simple text, I really have to recommend the one I used with my kids last year. It was so good, even my nine year old gets chemistry now. It’s written by a creationist, so, I just ignore that part. Exploring Creation with Chemistry. Maybe your library has it.

            Yeah, I figured he was against pesticides when I got to the make your own juice part, but until then it wasn’t so clear :).

            If I remember right, Challen said no to pickling salt. Whatever. I just don’t use much salt at all anymore. I figure a few months won’t kill me, though.

            Matt really knows my feelings on RBTI science. In fact, I’m pretty sure everybody in the RBTI-o-sphere does by now… If only people wouldn’t keep saying it’s working for them, I could dismiss the whole thing as quackery.

            You know, I ended up skipping the drinking today because I slept in and by then I’d missed 3 hours worth. I just drank diluted juice as desired (I rarely drink plain water because I drop to 0 too fast). My sugars never crashed, but I doubt I drank enough since I don’t tend do drink naturally in the morning. I also hardly peed (usually I have to go every hour or so)… so not sure what the sugar patters were today!

            I’m having a hard time finding any patterns though. Some days I’ve got the normal drop at 11 to 2, others I’ll have a brix over 5 thru lunch and then crash late afternoon… but a conductivity meter is definitely my next big purchase.

          • Ha…I get it :) I haven’t checked out Khan Academy in a long time but thanks for the reminder and the book suggestion.

            I wouldn’t be too skimpy on the salt. It has its benefits and you don’t want to chronically activate the renin-agiotensin system. I wouldn’t let the additives freak you out so much. You got bigger problems to worry about like your sugar levels. Once you start to take care of the bigger issues, then you can start doing the fine tuning. If Challen says pickling salt is a no-no, I guess it would have to be b/c it doesn’t contain iodine which would make sense (I know this is RBTI we’re talking about) b/c most people seem to be deficient in it. I think having enough iodine to prevent goiter and having enough for optimal health are two totally different things. In the medical literature you can find that the rest of the body utilizes iodine with the breasts coming right behind the thyroid in terms of the amount of iodine they concentrate. But that’s a topic for another day. A day that probably won’t come until after I get done with Kharrazian’s book.

            Back to RBTI…the fun stuff!
            Good to hear that your sugars didn’t crash. Before today, how much, what and how often were you drinking? We’ll see how you make it through the night tonight. Might want to ease up again on the drinking tomorrow. Eventually, you’ll want to start drinking more liquids since I believe that’s one of the key aspects of the program but we’ll need the salt meter or at least more info on what you’re doing before trying that. If you’d like my and others’ suggestions, go post that info on the RBTInotes forum.

    • Hey Michael,
      Not to steal you from this site, but if you are planning on posting what you learn here, I know myself and others over at Tran’s forum would really appreciate what you have to say as well. Maybe you could post there too? I just find the interface easier over there. I’m having trouble with this new comment format.

      • I’m still pretty new to RBTI and haven’t started any of the supplements yet but I might post over there to share my experience. I do believe Matt said there was going to be a forum for this site soon. He’ll probably have it set so he will not need to moderate every comment before it gets posted like he does here on the articles so that should make things much better.

  30. Sorry this is unrelated to the post. Is durum wheat semolina found in pastas ok? Thanks :)

    • I’m sure that’s fine Jimba.

  31. Considering we are an online community, I think this is a prudent thing to bring up.

    Although doing some of the RBTI things did help a fair amount, switching from an LED monitor back to a CRT has eliminated the rest of my insomnia Ive had for about a year now. Interesting thing is I’m going through “withdrawals”; very irritable, hard to think, a bored “somethings missing” feeling.


    • Yes! No wonder! That explains it!

  32. Wow, I didn’t think you’d do a piece on frequent peeing because that is what I can strongly relate to!

    I used to wet the bed as a kid (it was pretty funny now that I think back) but now I’m always getting the urge to pee, ESPECIALLY at night around the time when I’m TRYING to go to bed and my body just keeps telling me to empty the bladder, empty the bladder, empty the bladder.

    I don’t have clear pee all the time (only when I drink a lot of water) usually in the mornings my pee is yellow but sometimes it might be clear and I can pee a lot in the morning, even after I do my usual morning pee.

    I can hold it like a champ though in the day time and I rarely have those urges to ‘empty’ while I’m out.

    I knew something was wrong and that it wasn’t normal, especially how I used to have to wake up in the middle of the night to pee (usually just once) but recently I’ve been able to sleep through the whole night without getting up. Btw, I don’t think ice cream can fix my problem. Haha…but I’ve never payed attention to my pee patterns on those days I eat ice cream.

    my…what an interesting topic.

  33. long time no read of the blog. dont know when it changed but i like it, i may come back…periodically. anyways, obviously the anorexic writer spurred my interest. i think i have tried every diet and ‘eating pettern’ to get my body to act normal but no go. the summer when i was outside in the sun all day and cycling my carbs with huge carb hits was wen i felt my best, ever. but fwiw, when the seasons changed so did my ever body function- anyways, i have a lot of problems but i can try and tell what has helped me in terms of carbphobia & night peeing.

    I have been paleo for about a yr and a half & prior to that i was a zerocarb nazi. i can weigh the same eating all carbs or all fat or fat & protein. i can easily actually weigh more on a diet of fat & protein, so taubes can KMA…

    i gave up dairy last yr for lent and never added it back. it helped my acne & night sweats. but, they came back. i skimmed somethin here i think a while back about pork and so i decided to give it a go, and this has helped IMMENSLY!! i dunno wtf it is about pork, and i never ever thought i could live without it but knowing how much better i feel, good bye pig… sad really i love porksteak…

    ok so dropping dairy/pork is good. i started eating bone marrow & a LOOOOT or broth(dont gelatin hate) face cleared up, joints stopped crackng(as much) and my swollen nodes under my chin went away. the jellomeat also helped my sleep and wake-up-heart attack racing thing.

    i agree with the person about the time of the month. i sweat at night certain weeks way worse than others. my exercise/lifting/sleeping is a direct reflection of my nite sweats. my nite pee is pretty evenly correlated with my protein(namely muscle meat) intake. more protein- more pee- more blood sugar problems.

    if i wake up racing heart and exploding bladder, i pee, stick a spoon in blackstrapmolasses, eat it, brush my teeth( my teeth suck at life….but b/c of my past not present) and im fine back in bed. first thing in the am, a big swig of BS molasses. seems to work.

    about the sleeping thing, i suffer from sleep paralysis…if ANYONE knows ANYThing about help with this, speak up! its so fing scary and i never ever suffered from it UNTIL i gained weight in recovery. both my brothers have it after coming back from war with the special forces. i got it post anorexia recovery. seems a traumatic event triggers it but i am sick of feeling like i am going to die. fyi, it is when your body is asleep but your brain isnt and your paralysied in your body and you cant breath or move and you feel like your going to die if you dont snap out of it…not good for the ol stress sytem, cortisol etc….

    as far as RBTI, i dont know much about it but my dad is a pool guy and i can get all that testy stuff for free from him, so i mite test it out.

    is this distilled water stuff like the gallons of it you can buy at the market that just says ‘distilled water’. o, lemon water is a safe bet too. i add BS molasses to it as well. will eventually get around to sugar straight. i have no qualms with rice/potatoes etc. the best thing to do if your scared of carbs is to figure out what will relieve the fear and do not tackle carbs with a negative attitude b/c your making your own destiny then, stress breeds stress breeds shitty BS levels. carbing up post exercise is a good place to start but keeping carbs in your daily diet required me to have carbs often, not fasting berkhan like i was. some reason i handle carbs fine as long as i dont throw them in just once a day, but all day

  34. Lorelei, I completely agree with your reservations on RBTI science. That is exactly the trepidation I have (aside from a small dinner). Recently on Facebook a ton of people have been recommending Beddoe’s book. It sounds like his book offers some reconciliation between science and RBTI and while not perfect it seems to be much more in line with what Matt’s typical reader would want to see.

  35. What is the best way to raise urine pH? Bananas milk and cheese don’t seem to be doing the trick for me. There Cal II, coral calcium and calcium citrate, which would be best to try? My urine pH is 5.5 and staying there.

    my daily nums: 3.5 5.5/7.0 15C 4M+

    Don’t have my NH4 and nitrate kits, working on that…

  36. Mt aldosterone is close to dropping off the reference range and when I drink a cup of water, within half an hour I feel the urge to go. Because of this I don’t drink much. My sodium and potassium levels are mid range so maybe if I drink a normal amount of water they would decrease. Do you think drinking 8 cups a day would help my aldosterone/polyuria?

    • Drink some juice or milk instead of water. I think you would be better off drinking Zero cups of water right now until your polyuria clears up.

  37. Greeting! 1st post. I must say an interesting subject to stream into on 180 degree … peeeee.

    Its surprising how many people suffer from these issues…. polyuria, oveactive bladder, shy bladder, nocturia, bed wetting … however you label the peee problem. Its probably an issue that is far worse amoungst the general public than initially realised because we just get too self conscious; how we hide. I am certainly one of those and it…sleeping “crazy little” and having to go poly poly times a night/day. I am not going into detail, but hell it can make life lousy.

    Its also surprising given the commonality of the problem how few solutions seem to exist; and how rapidly these problems are increasing … with increased alcohol, caffeine, soda, sugar, toxin and fast food intake. An ever increasing pissed off society needing to release/relieve itself.

    Maybe the suggested product can provide some hope. Can the pumpkin possible come to the rescue. Captain Pumpkin ! Ha, ha. Here’s an article that provides some depth on these issues:

    “A common and frustrating complaint we at Life Extension hear is how to stop urinary incontinence.

    Our frustration has been that despite aggressive research, we could not identify a safe solution to this problem that plagues so many aging women (and men to a lesser extent).

    Even more numerous are inquiries we receive from people seeking relief from frequent daytime and nighttime urinary urges.

    In a breakthrough discovered by Japanese scientists, a natural plant extract combination has been shown to reduce incontinent episodes by up to 79%,1 daytime urination by up to 39%,2 and nighttime urination by up to 68%.3″

    … read further on


    If anyone has tried the suggest water soluble pumpkin exstract related, please relate your story; or if anyone tries this please report back here.

    • Just glacing on Amazon 8 out 8 people give the product “Life Extension Water-Soluble Pumpkin Seed Extract” 5 star reviews (seemingly a newish product), so hopfully there is something to Captain Pumkin. I am just reading the reviews which seem very informative. Maybe even consuming the seeds as a superfood may be benefit directly for baldder issues. I know not, something to research.

  38. This describes me nearly every single night for years and years on my (mostly) vegan vegetarian diet which I finally ended several years ago, and still, on an occasion I will have this problem again. Now I understand what was happening to me! I was like a frozen ice cube with an over-active bladder! Whatever… Still cold, but warming up now thanks to Matt and 180!


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