Ray Peat – Protein and Vegetarian Diets

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“Vegetarians often notice temporary exhilaration when they stop eating meat, probably because their thyroid has been suppressed. But a more serious hypothyroid state often follows, from a low protein inadequate vegetarian diet. Low protein diets definitely interfere with the liver’s ability to detoxify estrogen and other stressors.”


“A few years ago, most of the nutritional problems that I saw were caused by physicians, by refined convenience foods, and by poverty. Recently, most of the problems seem to be caused by badly designed vegetarian diets, or by acceptance of the idea that 40 grams of protein per day is sufficient. The liver and other organs deteriorate rapidly on low-protein diets. Observe the faces of the wheat-grass promoters, the millet-eaters, and the ‘anti-mucus’ dieters, and other low-protein people. Do they look old for their age?”
~Ray Peat

I don’t sense that Ray Peat has much love for vegetarian diets. While I would never want to outright say that eating a predominantly vegetarian diet that contains at least occasional consumption of meat, seafood, dairy, and eggs is harmful – as this might create fear of eating this way in someone that stands to improve their health tremendously on such a regimen (this seems like a great therapeutic diet for a long-time low-carber, and I’m pretty certain I could thrive on this type of diet), there’s no question that many of the vegetarian diets being followed by today’s young and naïve, morally-delusional, and environmentally-confused health enthusiasts is extremely treacherous.

First let’s examine Peat’s first quote, as this ties into the metabolically-suppressive nature of certain amino acids…

Throughout my research I see the theme repeated that protein is suppressive to the metabolic rate (and protein restriction supposedly can trigger increases in thermogenesis – but perhaps this is just a short-term effect from the spike in catabolic hormones similar to taking amphetamines, which would explain the vegetarian’s short-term feeling of “exhilaration”) – and this is coming from those who are more honed in on metabolic rate than any in history – such as Peat himself and Broda Barnes.

In particularly, animal protein seems to have this effect more than any other. I used to just assume it was total protein, but it appears that certain amino acids in particular have that effect, notably cysteine, methionine, and tryptophan. A big portion of Peat’s work revolves around these amino acids, and obtaining ample protein without taking in excesses of these particular amino acids – or at the very least balancing them out with anti-inflammatory amino acids that are not a drain on the metabolic rate by consuming a considerable amount of protein in the form of fruit, juice, potatoes, and gelatin.

This is quite an interesting finding. If it is indeed true that these amino acids – despite perhaps being incredibly vital during growth and development as they help to build lean tissue (particularly in things like, whey protein and egg whites – the staples of body builders looking to add muscle), have an anti-metabolic effect…

Then it would tie several theories and observations together. For one, it’s safe to say, as a generalization, that Americans consume the highest ratio of muscle meat to gelatin (from collagen, skin, bone, and broth – many of which have been deleted from the diet with the selection of more tender meats and stigmas against the non-muscle parts of the animal that do not contain nearly as much of the anti-metabolic amino acids). So the observation that America, more so than most countries, is richer in health problems related to subdued metabolic rate – such as type 2 diabetes, heart disease, cancer, autoimmune disease, constipation and the digestive problems that stem from it, infertility, and so forth does not contradict this.

We also see many reports of the supposed superiority of a “plant-based diet” when it comes to longevity and what not. While this is highly debatable, that general belief is quite prevalent.

An even bigger stimulator of debate, the world famous China Study findings were reported as being that animal protein had strong associations with degenerative disease while plant proteins did not. There’s no telling why this observation was made (or how much the data was falsified and taken out of context by Campbell), or if it really did have something to do with the fact that plant proteins, generally-speaking, are lower in Peat’s evil 3 amino acids – particularly methionine and cysteine. For example, the areas with the greatest meat consumption could have easily been the largest people (a theme observed by explorers like Weston A. Price or Robert McCarrison) – which as we’ve discussed recently isn’t necessarily a life extension trait. In fact, I highly suspect that reduced body size is probably the reason that calorie restriction used in laboratory animals at birth does extend the lifespan (just like small dogs outliving big dogs, a parallel made by the great Peat himself). It obviously isn’t the reduction of calories alone, as reducing calories in adult laboratory animals causes early death…

LINK

Anyway, the point being is that we don’t know if the findings of the China Study really did have something directly to do with the amino acids methionine, cysteine, and tryptophan. It could have been stunted growth from insufficient protein intake, calorie restriction from the areas with low meat consumption generally being the poorer areas, or some other factor altogether – like meat consumption increasing the farther North you go in the country – distance from the equator appears to be a risk factor for many health conditions (multiple sclerosis, depression, etc.). But the finding that animal protein increased morbidity and mortality rates matches up with Peat’s theories.

This ties in well to Kilmer McCully’s homocysteine theory as well, (discussed in THIS post and THIS post) showing that, in a circumstance of B-vitamin deficiencies, methionine, found in highest concentrations in animal protein, is not metabolized correctly (disturbances in the “methylation cycle” which can cause an accumulation of homocysteine – a highly-inflammatory substance with strong ties to heart disease and other conditions). The perfect nutritional storm for creating high levels of homocysteine is eating a ton of animal protein with a bunch of refined carbohydrates that have been stripped of their B-vitamins. This is, of course, the American diet in a nutshell – the home of skinless chicken breasts, egg white omelets, low-fat cheese, skim milk, protein powders and bars, and the world’s most impressive refined sugar consumption (the zero nutrient food).

And finally, if these amino acids in excess really do cause additional inflammation and lower the metabolism, you’ll have trouble finding a disease out there that isn’t somehow linked to reduced cellular energy production (i.e. lowered metabolic rate on a per cell basis), overproduction of inflammation, or both.

What is strange about all this is Peat’s solution – or rather how it translates to his blanket dietary prescription. You can read from the second quote that Peat is a big advocate of a relatively high protein diet. Then he points out the dangers of consuming excess animal protein. He also bashes the consumption of legumes, grains, nuts, and seeds – the highest sources of protein in the plant kingdom that are so fabulously low in most of the three inflammatory, anti-metabolic amino acids (an exception might be, peanuts, which contain lots of tryptophan). Of course, eating more legumes, grains, nuts, and seeds instead of animal protein has long been the solution offered up, and are the standbys of your typical vegetarian that Peat criticizes…

“Besides fasting, or chronic protein deficiency, the common causes of hypothyroidism are excessive stress or ‘aerobic’ (i.e. anaerobic) exercise, and diets containing beans, lentils, nuts, unsaturated fats (including carotene), and undercooked broccoli, cauliflower, cabbage, or mustard greens. Many health conscious people become hypothyroid with a synergistic program of undercooked vegetables, legumes instead of animal proteins, oils instead of butter, carotene instead of vitamin A, and breathless exercise instead of a stimulating life.”

And thus enters what is always the biggest problem that I have with Peat’s work and general recommendations – on protein, with exercise which we will discuss later in the month, and in general. All foods have both positive and negative attributes.

Specific to protein, Peat recommends getting lots of protein from eggs, lean fish, shellfish, and dairy primarily – balanced by fruit and gelatin. Yet, these foods contain massive amounts of tryptophan, methionine, and cysteine. Anyone else reviewing the protein issue would steer someone towards eating a more moderate amount of protein, and eating more starchy foods high in protein (like grains, root vegetables, nuts, seeds, and legumes). He recommends these foods because they are apparently more “balanced” and the nutritional quality of these foods is superior to muscle meats.

But you are still left with a catch-22 and a huge unanswerable question… will the amino acids in animal proteins lower your metabolism and cause more inflammation? Or will the lectins and anti-nutrients in legumes and grains lower your metabolism and cause you more inflammation? No one knows. Peat seems to justify this based on the idea that estrogen is anti-metabolic in excess, and eating lots of phytoestrogens in beans and not taking in much protein will compound the estrogenic effects of the diet. But in reality we are left not knowing what the hell to eat based on these theories. It is confused even more by the fact that increasing the carbohydrate intake of the diet by eating lots of grains, tubers, and fruit has a massive protein-sparing effect, lowering one’s protein needs substantially. But we can’t just not eat much protein Peat tells us. This will cause your organs to “deteriorate rapidly” according to him.

Of course, all those health food store vegetarians that Peat is taking swings at are busy eating high-fiber, unapalatable food often low in fat. The result is a huge spontaneous reduction in calorie intake and a rapid acceleration of the aging process that stems from calorie reduction – certainly increasing the rate of aging of the skin and making the face look wrinkled and old (not to mention the energy-drained and apathetic health food store workers always look like they could use a massive caloric kick in the ass – even when they are pounding cacao by the truck-full). This video by high-calorie advocate Durianrider of this health food store blooper-hero eating 1,200 calories per day or something like that is exactly what I’m talking about…

Anyway, it’s an interesting conversation piece. If you get anything from Peat on this issue that stands firm with the greatest potential value, it’s that it might be of tremendous health benefit to add gelatin to your diet in the form of broths, bone-in roasts, whole roasted birds instead of grilled breasts, stews and slow roasts made with meats that are terribly sinewy and tough, and some of Peat’s favorites – gelatin powder added to juice and soups, gummi bears, marshmallows, panna cotta, and Jello (margarita flavor, snorted through the nose like 80’s movie character Charles De Mar or slurped off a willing Oregon State Beaver student on Cinco de Mayo).

I haven’t really tried it with any dedication myself. I prefer to just eat a lot of fruits, juice, starches, and calories to not only get my protein, but lower my protein requirements with the protein-sparing effect of calories and carbohydrates. Sure, I eat plenty of meat and dairy too, but certainly not the absurd 8-ounce portions X 3 times per day that I used to eat to the detriment of my health.

And Ray May continues. We’ll be revisiting the protein issue throughout I’m sure…

For more, read on how to  RAISE YOUR METABOLISM.

92 Comments

  1. citations?

    Reply
  2. As I read more of your Ray May and learn from Josh Rubin (yes, I have begun) I find myself continually going, "But I thought…but, but I thought…but I was told…but…"
    as I overcome my fear of fruit
    and fruit juice and recover from years of bad information.

    In the program Josh has developed for me the goal is to get down to eating meat once per week. (but…but…but I thought…)

    Eggs, milk, butter, cheese, fruits, certain vegetables, broths and gelatin are my new staples.
    Fruits.
    Fruits??
    Yeah, fruits.

    The fruit part is blowing my mind.

    I soothed myself (and my 87 year old mother) today by going to that nice Gelotti place on Bloomfield Ave in Caldwell.

    Ate gelotto.
    Thought of you ;-)

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  3. "But we can’t just not eat much protein Peat tells us. This will cause your organs to “deteriorate rapidly” according to him. "

    matt,
    70-100g of protein isn't that much. Almost everybody eating a normal diet will get so much. If you drink one quart of milk and 1 quart of OJ, eat 100g of cheese, and have one or two teaspoons of gelatine, than you already have your 70-80g of protein.

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  4. Lisa, regarding your Josh Rubin plan, what was it that you had thought about eating meat before? That you should have it more frequently?

    I find that eating meat frequently isn't looked on that kindly nowadays… might just be my experience. Or if it is people will prefer stuff like fish or chicken instead of beef.

    (for the record I like Peat a lot and go by his principles, my username is not total mockery)

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  5. ray peat devotee eating eight packet jello mold,

    Previously I thought that since I'm anemic I needed to eat lots of red meat because omg it's the only source of B12 in the universe and I would shrivel up and turn to dust without it.

    I thought grass-fed beef was godlier than the Eucharist.

    I thought that only meats and eggs counted as protein and dairy was considered a carb because of the sugar content.

    I thought meat eating would make me tougher.

    I as doing the WAPF filtered through anti-fruit and anti-sugar sorta kinda paleo thinking.

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  6. surprised you didn't mention this too

    "In fact, the protein value of grain is negligible, mainly because seeds contain their protein in a storage form, that is extremely rich in nitrogen, but poor in essential amino acids. Special preparation is needed to reduce the toxicity of seeds, and in the case of beans, these methods are never very satisfactory."

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  7. Ray Peat also argues against nuts, seeds (and maybe even some grains) because of the PUFA content. He just thinks the quality of protein in these types of foods is close to worthless.

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  8. (changed my username)

    OIC, yeah I kind of experienced that too but eventually was like "well the cow filters that stuff anyway so it doesn't matter what it's fed". i do wonder if i am having too much lean beef so i fry it in coconut oil and also fry pieces of the fat and eat them with it. along with jello or some marshmallows a side dish. i hope that is counteracting the bad whatever stuff in the lean beef. but the beef is pretty fatty.

    yeah, anemia is almost certainly a thyroid issue really so it is good to be on a diet that rebuilds thyroid.

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  9. The highlight of Matt's post:
    "All foods have both positive and negative attributes."

    This is the most important point in all of nutritional research. The focus should be on this and discovering when and why certain foods are good/bad for individuals with specific conditions.

    If the diet guru doesn't know this, then the guru is really no guru at all.

    Reply
  10. Number nine…..number nine….. number nine…. number nine…….

    turn me on dead man…..turn me on dead man…..turn me on dead man…….. turn me on dead man…….

    Reply
  11. Nevermind. Someone got 9 first. Darn it!

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  12. @Lisa Sargese

    What certain vegetables?

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  13. gummy bear, The bad whatever stuff are (purportedly) the 3 amino acids that are negated by gelatin, not fat.

    good post matt, MOAR

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  14. "…and Jello (margarita flavor, snorted through the nose like 80’s movie character Charles De Mar or slurped off a willing Oregon State Beaver student on Cinco de Mayo)."

    What the f#@%?

    Reply
  15. I do not wish to dominate Matt's comments wall. Please feel free to email me privately BelovedIdeas@yahoo.com

    Namaste and Good Luck!

    Reply
  16. oh goody, a relevant post to share my recent experiment anecdote. so i dug out my jar of gelatin i have had for a while and never really used and began stirring a tablespoon into a glass of OJ first thing in the morning. since i now have a shelf in the pantry devoted to canned fruit and especially those little cans of mandarin oranges, which i used to down several at a time once upon a time…i have a can of those (just cause i love them) along with my gelatin juice and i am feeling good!

    well, really i have several glasses of gelatin juice throughout the day along with cappuccinos with added sugar, canned pineapple with cottage cheese (a tribute to my childhood) and whatever else i feel like eating. anyway, the point i am getting at is that i have only done this for 3 days now and my brain is loving it. my stress is way down, i feel almost on cloud 9 all the time and my mood is like actually stable. i had not previously cut back on regular protein such as muscle meats, dairy or even the occasional meal with beans, but for some reason this gelatin addition is working just fine for me. oh, also the other biggest noticeable improvement is more flexibility in my muscles and joints. i used to wake up with horribly stiff muscles and if i went on a walk, which is basically the only exercise i get save for chasing around my kids all day, my legs would be crazy stiff and it would take forever to recover. stretching did not help and was actually so painful i refused to do it even though it is always recommended by the experts.

    so that was really exciting for me b/c i hated that i couldn't even walk around the block without my groin going into shock. again, it's only been a few days, but if this is all i have needed to actually feel "good" as opposed to that state of health i thought i was in, then awesome.

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  17. I've definitely begun to appreciate the importance of protein for liver health in the past four days when I started to eat more protein (a full quart of milk together with fruits) in the morning, ever since doing this my energy and glucose regulation throughout the day has been rock solid. Really a huge difference from the high-carb low-protein breakfasts I've had in the past seven weeks when I had to have several snacks just to last until lunch and then a couple of hours after lunch would always get severe energy dips and headaches.

    Byron Richards explains this as the liver needing dietary protein as a direct source for synthesizing the enzymes needed for its various functions, so starting the day with a good amount of protein is really essential for efficient liver function throughout the day, and I cant really argue with this after what I've experienced recently. I even feel better now than when I was fasting till lunch.

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  18. I am going to start experimenting with gelatin soon anyway, does anyone know if Peat thinks stocks like meat bouillon works just as well as gelatin as a protein source? Unless Great lakes are shipping to Europe, bouillon is just about the only cheap source you can get in France.

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  19. Thanks for laying out the confusion. Yes, all foods have both good and bad in them: this is so liberating.

    I'm becoming aware that there are plenty of healthy plant-based folks (my experiments with animal products as staples never made me feel too good, although I do play with small amounts of gelatin on occasion), and the opposite.

    That vid is so sad, scary. Imagine buying produce from a guy like that. I've known a few people like that too. Heck, I've been there.

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  20. Collden, if you're talking about boullon cubes, they can't substitute for gelatin. They're basically just msg

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  21. I really enjoyed this post. Peat's work is fascinating but it provokes so many questions that it desperately needs someone who can respectfully critique it. None of the other serious health bloggers seem to be brave enough to tackle it (as far as I can see).

    Matt, or anyone, could you please explain why Peat thinks carotene is so terrible. I cannot understand how it is a PUFA.

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  22. This whole gelatin thing makes sense and all….. except for the fact that I'm a raw meater and raw egger. I get plenty of hydrophilic colloids (such as the proteins/amino acids found in highly processed gelatin) without any need for gelatin and anyone who's dabbled in raw meat is aware that raw meat and cooked, even under-cooked as all hell, meat have vastly different effects on body chemistry and health. Based on experience, or course.

    Watch out for that tree!!!!! BAM

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    • I thought I was the only one that knew this…good undefiled wisdom Bam!

      Reply
  23. Re Dinosaur: wikipedia: "β-Carotene has a high tendency to oxidize, more so than most food fats…" Maybe this is what ray peat means by "beta-carotene acts as a Pufa", I really do not know. It also seems that pharmacologic dose of beta-carotene increases the risk of lung cancer in smokers. I'd just stay away from crap-pills and eat a carrot (or not)

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  24. Re: the calorie restriction/reduction argument–

    I think there is some truth to needing a deficit to lose weight- but it can be achieved through intuitive eating and RRARF should precede that. Here's my long-winded story :)

    I have followed 180DH for a while… I was attracted here because I was tired of my eating disorder, restriction/occasional bulimia. I alternated between slightly underweight and at a 19 BMI. I alternated between binging, vomiting, restricting, and binging again.

    While it's caused several mindf**ks for me to follow this blog, it's also allowed me to kind of stop caring so much about what I eat. In the end, nutrition is a guessing game, and I can eat close to nature which seems intuitively healthy to me and makes me feel best.

    I spent almost a year semi-RRARFing, trying to eat intuitively but stuffing myself a lot of the time too. It was a primal thing, not a conscious "eat as many potatoes as possible" thing- I had some sort of insatiable hunger.

    Somehow, after 6 months, I began to not feel the insatiable hunger so often. It still happened a lot- and I ate a lot at every meal- but I felt in control; like I could look at a plate of cookies and have one instead of the whole thing. In February I started getting fed up (ha, ha) with the whole thing. I could not restrict my eating because my hunger was present and regular. I received a research grant that I spent all of Spring working on, because I've had the mental clarity and drive to stick with something (usually I just exercised and sat around). I decided if I was meant to be overweight that would be OK if I was mentally sane and successful. Weight is not important.

    BUT in the past month, the eating part has ALL changed!! I wake up, I don't jump in the fridge to get something to eat, I wait until I figure out exactly what I want. After I eat… I STOP. It's not hard– I literally am DONE eating, no more desire to eat!!! Feeling FULL does not appeal to me- I just eat til I'm satisfied and then stop so I can get going. After dinner, I have a snack of coconut milk ice cream or something, sometimes I'm not "hungry" per se but I am not emotionally eating either, I just have a little sweet treat and then stop- no scrounging for more food!

    It's not perfect yet, but it really happened naturally. I didn't even do the Geneen Roth stuff like "sitting alone in silence with your food" (who has time?????) “ask yourself 1 billion times if you are really hungry” or "eating so slowly that you want to gouge your eyes out."

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  25. I just told myself I could eat anything, whenever and however much and the rest followed– it was a long process. I gained about 15-20 pounds, probably 7-10ish were needed. I'm not overweight now, just a little "thick" for my frame. In the past month I've started to feel slimmer, last week I was 3 lbs down (have been hesitant to weigh again), but my stomach feels flatter.

    Emotionally eating is not following your body's cues, it is inflicting pain on yourself (over-full) to forget the emotional pain you are suffering. One of the keys in my recovery was NOT to ask myself “am I eating emotionally?’ and stop eating if that was the case— but it was to realize I WAS doing it, and being OK with it. Realizing how I felt after. And doing it again the next time I felt the urge but didn’t feel like resisting. Eventually, I didn’t want to feel the way I did after overeating- I wanted to make another choice to deal with whatever I was feeling.

    I think if you follow your body's cues, they will guide you…. As much as I believed back in Feb that I would keep gaining & gaining, I have never been an obese person and my body has kicked in and reduced my appetite. Those who are already overweight probably must go through the same process—freeing all food choices & amounts, and letting your body do the talking. Being AWARE but not restrictive or judgemental.

    RE: peat. I did much of my RRARFing with a base of starch, meat, fat, phases of bread, dark chocolate. I avoided sugar but binged on it occasionally, so it wasn't low sugar by any stretch.
    When Matt started revealing his soirees with sugar, I began to modestly consume some blackstrap molasses, OJ, bananas, other fruit, and some coconut milk ice cream. I believe this flipped a switch in my body, and I can be satisfied on less food now. I think my blood sugar gets low and causes "false hunger" that really needs to be alleviated by an orange or banana or something, not a lb of potatoes. I do not consume that much sugar, but it complements my diet nicely.

    Not sure if this is helpful at all, but I just wanted to proclaim that AT LAST, the end of this stupid journey is in sight for me, and that there is hope for others ☺

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  26. Durian seems like a pretty cool dude. And funny as hell. Too bad his ideas are a little wacky. Can't deny that the guy is a ball of energy though. Something is working there.

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  27. Wheezy, congratulations on your recovery! I think this story will be very helpful to people. It sounds almost identical to my own experience, too. This is exactly what getting to intuitive eating looks like. It's funny what happens when you get rid of the guilt and "shoulds." And, yes, you need to be very free and just accept the insatiable appetite feeling at the beginning and go with it. I think your write-up is 100% on the money.

    I have no doubt that your body will naturally make its way to the setpoint you want. So happy for you. And even if you're not quite where you want to be weight-wise, isn't your quality of life a million times better now than with an ED? That's the most amazing thing for me. To get your life back is a feeling that's hard to explain but the most wonderful thing in the world.

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  28. The only problem I have with this post is that I don't think the China Study has any relevance here at all. China, of all places, is notorious for eating all parts of the animal. Broth is a national staple, and there's even a dish of pure shredded collagen. I don't remember too well why the China Study was a bunch of bull, but I think it was that the statistical methods used could have been used to support just about anything.

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  29. Wheezy, I echo Amy's comments and congrats to you! Thanks for sharing your story. It's similar to my experience and many people I've consulted with. You're right, you first have to free yourself from food prison, guilt, stress, all of it. And then give it time, like you did.

    What you said here, was so key to your success…
    "I received a research grant that I spent all of Spring working on, because I've had the mental clarity and drive to stick with something (usually I just exercised and sat around). I decided if I was meant to be overweight that would be OK if I was mentally sane and successful. Weight is not important.
    BUT in the past month, the eating part has ALL changed!! I wake up, I don't jump in the fridge to get something to eat, I wait until I figure out exactly what I want. After I eat… I STOP. It's not hard– I literally am DONE eating, no more desire to eat!!! Feeling FULL does not appeal to me- I just eat til I'm satisfied and then stop so I can get going."

    Those 2 key things played a huge role — as you probably know :-)

    1. Giving yourself permission to just eat without guilt and not caring anymore about the weight. And then stress level goes down dramatically.
    2. Outside interests, like you had. Focusing less on food/weight, just eating (intuitively), and then getting going (like you said) onto the important things you want to do.

    That's a great recipe for naturally shedding extra weight — with no deliberate restriction of calories or foods (with sufficient nourishment overall). Lightening your load, mentally speaking, can lighten your load, physically speaking :-)

    Thanks again for sharing that. So happy to hear your story — very inspiring! And I'm sure it will help others have hope :-)

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  30. What about raw meat and gelatin? Why would anyone need gelatin on a raw animal food based diet if the raw versions are already rich in the hydrophilic coloids that gelatin is rich in. Makes no sense. Peat needs to try raw meat and come back to me with his bizarre and bisexual findings.

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  31. I second the last line.

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  32. Also, someon ought to enter that ray peat quote about the warm penis over at some of these quote sites, like thinkexist. It's truly a memorable perverted nuance of a language Ray can barely understand called English.

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  33. do u guys drink juice from concentrate or pasteurized or what? I think I read Peat recommends only fresh?

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  34. Kirk,
    Peat doesn't say that fresh is necessary, but thinks it is best if you can get it. At least that is what he told me a few years ago.

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  35. I enjoyed that Durian video- certainly appreciate his emphasis on 'eating like an athlete' to feel healthy and vibrant. The other dude definitely looks in bad shape.

    I also wonder about that protein requirement. Eating on my own, I tend toward a pretty low protein diet, I think. My estimate would be I get around 60-90g/day, though sometimes I'll eat 1lb of grass-fed burgers or sausage. Intuitive eating, though, right? I know when I need some substantial protein.

    These days, I choose well prepared beans as my protein source, though I don't always have an easy time of them. Absent a source of good raw milk, I'm not drinking much these days, Certainly curious to see how this protein question all shakes out.

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  36. Durian riders video was pretty interesting. He is a smart guy and very entertaining to watch and listen to, but he reminds me of some fundamentalist religious preachers I have known. The similarities are very strong. I wonder if he was raised in a fundamentalist religion and then replaced it with Dietism. Does anyone know his background?

    My concern was with the man he was making fun of. He was obviously mentally ill at least, and maybe even had some other brain handicap. Don't know if that is very cool, but it did serve DRs purpose in showing how ridiculous that way of eating is. Hopefully he is trying to help him, and not just exploit him for his video.

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  37. Am I the only one who wants citations for all these Ray Peat quotes? I recognize that some of them are from his book Generative Energy, but I don't think I've come across the others, and would be glad to find more Ray Peat reading material.

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  38. Peat also told me that raw milk is not necessary either. Same as with juice, fresh is best but not necessary. Casein/cheese would be even better because it has had whey portion of the milk removed, and Peat does not like the amino profile of whey.

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  39. JT,

    Agree with that point about Durian Rider- the dude in the video did seem sad and I felt some compassion for him. I don't like seeing people get beat up and bullied, even in the service of a well-meaning criticism of dangerous behavior.

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  40. That video is pretty disturbing. Poor guy.

    Interesting point about the protein, I have noticed that since emphasising starch for carbs and fruit/sugar when I crave it my desire for muscle meat and protein in general has fallen. I get by fine with a small piece of meat for dinner and get the rest of my protein from dairy and some eggs plus gelatin. Actually stuck a days eating into fit day just out of interest and noticed my protein generally hovers around 80 grams from instinctive eating.

    All in all though It definitely feels better for me anyway not to eat huge amounts of muscle meat, digestion is stronger and I have more calm energy.

    Basically eat the food including plenty of starch and fruit and protein will regulate itself IMO.

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  41. Thanks for the story Wheezy, it helped me to keep focussed.

    Jane

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  42. Matt, that low-fat vegan diet you went on for 2 weeks a year back or so, that was like 3000+ kcal a day, so clearly hypercaloric and probably contained at least 40-50 g of protein, yet you said it was highly catabolic? More so, you had huge rebound fat gain, what gives? You've clearly been flirting with high-calorie fruitarianism for a while now, but I don't really see what the big difference is between what durian is advocating and what you already tried and failed on.

    Also, when the heck are we gonna get to this

    "Soon we’ll discuss some of the unique properties of sucrose that really intrigue me, one in particular that Ray Peat (poor sucrose’s only fan) has not discussed as far as I’m aware, that I have personally overlooked since the beginning, and what I find to perhaps have the greatest significance. "

    its been a month now, or was that the lactic acid/growth hormone bit?

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  43. oh, and if you use the code JUH484 while ordering you get 5$ off your first purchase, no strings attached (do remove this Matt if it's out of line here)

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  44. Wheezy,

    Have you read Charles Eisentein's book, "Transformational Weight Loss?"

    Sounds like you could have written it.

    Reply
  45. Happy Mother's Day to our Grass Fed Momma!! :-)

    And to all the 180 mommies out there too! :-)

    Katerina Edwards wrote:
    "@Lisa Sargese
    What certain vegetables?"

    Lisa, yes please do share. Which veggies? :-)

    JT wrote:
    "My concern was with the man he was making fun of. He was obviously mentally ill at least, and maybe even had some other brain handicap. Don't know if that is very cool, but it did serve DRs purpose in showing how ridiculous that way of eating is. Hopefully he is trying to help him, and not just exploit him for his video."

    I know, I hope so too. I'd like to think that he at least talked to the guy "off camera" to see if he could help him, and not just walk away after final cut :-)

    JT wrote:
    "Peat also told me that raw milk is not necessary either. Same as with juice, fresh is best but not necessary. Casein/cheese would be even better because it has had whey portion of the milk removed, and Peat does not like the amino profile of whey."

    JT (or Jannis), do you know what Peat thinks of cottage cheese and yogurt as dairy/protein sources? I love greek-style yogurt — and since it's strained&drained of most of the fluid, I would think it has very little whey left in it? And much less whey than regular yogurt. But from what I understand, I think cottage cheese also has very little whey left after it's drained too. Anyway, curious to know what Ray thinks, if you or Jannis, or anyone, happens to know.

    Reply
  46. Hey, Johnny, how did your first gelatin trial go? Very curious! :-)

    Now I'm off to my breakfast of homemade "orange julius" — yum! Might add some gelatine to it this time and see how that goes :-) Hey, orange julius jello sounds really good! Gonna try that sometime too lol! And orange julius frozen treat! Mmmm, Creamsicles! Makes me feel like a, uh, Popsicle Popstar, yeah that's it lol!
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mLbcABv4Kgo&hl
    …And who can forget "Man of Popsicle" lol! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9f1-H9-eJEc&;

    Okay, I'm gonna go show my mommy some love.

    Hope everyone enjoys Mother's Day with their mom!

    If not your own mom, then show somebody's mom some love today :-)

    Your wife or lady — even if she's nobody's mom — show her some love today too :-)

    Reply
  47. AS,
    Peat is very fond of cheese, because it is a very good protein source and comes with good saturated fat and a lot of fat soluble vitamins.

    He doesn't recommend yoghurt anymore, because it contains lactic acid, which he considers a burden for the metabolism.

    Reply
  48. Andrew-

    So far all of the quotes are from Peat's 5 books.

    Wheezy-

    Great feedback. Appreciate you spending the time to leave that comment. It's important for people to look at realistic timelines and understand that it is totally a process. Sometimes appetite is high. Sometimes low. Sometimes you wanna eat even if you are not hungry. Sometimes you are hungry but don't really want to eat. The body has minute-to-minute needs and knows how to get them. Taking time to just eat whatever and whenever and however much you want for a prolonged period almost always results in an improvement in health, well-being, and physical and mental competence.

    JT-

    At least 5,000 people have seen durianriders videos on the anorexic guy. His douche-ification of him is worth it. Saving someone that far gone is much harder than showing 5,000 healthier people how stupid it is to undereat – avoiding ever falling into the difficult-to-reemerge from trap.

    He seems to surround himself with extremists. He is always mentioning all the people he has know that have died from weird dietary pursuits like the Primal diet or cyclists doping. I think his passion stems from knowing how life and death this wacky health food fixation can be. Too bad he can just lighten up, ETF, and STFU about this retarded fruitarian/vegan nonsense. It's dangerous, and unnecessary to get many of the "results" he speaks of.

    Rob, Chris, Jannis-

    It's almost impossible to get less than 70-100 grams of protein per day unless you are a total vegan. But this seems to be the Peat standard for normal-sized women, not necessarily men. I strongly suspect 70 grams is roughly the minimum for a grown man eating a high-calorie, carbohydrate-based diet unless you want to experience health negatives.

    China Study-

    The post is about vegetarianism. It's important for any vegetarians reading this to know that I have indeed heard about the "grand prix" of nutritional studies, regardless of how irrelevant and skewed and butchered it may be.

    Reply
  49. AS,
    Yes, cottage cheese is Peat approved.If I remember correctly the fresh unfermented and un-aged cheeses are his favorites. I didnt know about the yogurt, so Jannis is probably right, because i know that Peat is anti lactic acid.

    Jannis,
    Do you know if there are any fermented foods that Peat approves?

    Reply
  50. Matt,
    Peat says that a man with normal activity level needs about 100-120g a day.
    I don't think you need to eat an extreme diet to consume that amount. Most people tend to forget that foods like potatos and fruit (juices) also contain protein when they calculate their protein intake.

    I drink two quarts of milk and about 1 1/2 quarts of OJ. That alone equals 85g of protein. In addition to that I eat 100g of cheese and some gelatine. That's enough to get my 120g

    JT,
    I'm not sure. I never asked him.

    Reply
  51. Matt,
    I agree that the video will serve the purpose of showing how dangerous and stupid the diet is, and hopefully it will save some lives and prevent parents from hurting their kids. But I just felt bad for the guy because he was obviously unable to understand what was even going on. Seemed kind of like finding a mentally retarded person to film and mock for not being able to read. Then posting that on the internet to teach kids how important it is to pay attention in school.

    I think an interview with Durian Rider would be very entertaining. It would be great if you could find out more of his background to see where the zealous religious devotion to food comes from. Maybe you could save others from joining a diet cult.

    Reply
  52. I think Durianrider is just hilarious. Especially part 2. If you're out there reading my comment: thanks Durianrider for making me laugh like crazy !

    And that skinny guy reminds me of myself on my first vegan diet. I blamed the vegan diet for my health problems when I should have blamed my low caloric intake. I'm sure I would have been more or less fine if I had eaten 3000cal a day ! (after all, I wasn't a vegan or vegetarian for THAT long).

    But I'll still stick to my starch intake with some meat though. But great laugh anyway !

    Martin V.

    Reply
  53. I am finding this stuff really interesting. I just started reading this blog a couple months ago. And someone above mentioned anemia and thyroid. Well, I just got lab results yesterday and am at a loss for what to do. I know no one is a doctor here (I am a PA student actually and still am not sure what is going on).

    I have Hashimoto's (my TPO ab were 601 and normal is <35). I am on Armour thyroid and my TSH is still 9.8. Free T3/T4 is low, but close to normal. My hemoglobin is 10.9, hematocrit 32.8 both low. MCV is normal, so it is not B12/folic acid deficiency anemia (that much I know). Then my iron tests are bad — Iron is 20 (normal 40-173), % sat is 8 (normal 15-50%), and ferritin is 8 (10-154).

    To complicate matters, I had weight loss surgery (gastric sleeve) two years ago. I am not sure if I should be taking iron or working on healing the thyroid. I've had Hashi's since I was mid-teens (I'm 32 now). My doc said to take Floradix iron, but not too much, because of oxidation. WLS sucks. Wish I never had it, but I can't change it now.

    If anyone has anymore knowledge/links of thyroid/anemia issues, I'd love to know. I'm trying to figure out what the hell is going on. Thanks.

    Reply
  54. Ok, I guess it's safe to share!
    For the first three weeks, what Josh calls "Remove" (he also vlogged about it here http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oWcaXTN7HvQ)
    he recommends these…

    Cucumbers
    Peppers
    Summer squash
    Zucchini
    Tomatoes

    Bamboo shoots
    Beets
    Carrots
    Jicama
    Potatoes
    Pumpkin
    Sweet potato/yams
    Winter squash
    Any squash
    Parsnips
    Turnips

    There are others that can be added later but this list is the most desirable.

    Reply
  55. Dinosaur:

    "Matt, or anyone, could you please explain why Peat thinks carotene is so terrible. I cannot understand how it is a PUFA."

    Ray thinks carrots are too high in PUFAs, I think. Anything higher in PUFAs than potatoes and fruit is a no-no for Pray Eat. Studies saying beta carotene is terrible based on studies of SMOKERS using processed supplements prove nothing, IMO. If he can show studies of non-smokers eating whole foods, I will take it under advisement. Until then, he's being as ridiculous and extreme as Durian Rider and Aajonus, IMO.

    Matt:

    "I strongly suspect 70 grams is roughly the minimum for a grown man eating a high-calorie, carbohydrate-based diet unless you want to experience health negatives.

    High carbs, fats, and calories all spare protein. Don't restrict food or eliminate it and you will adapt and thrive on minimal protein. Jan Kwasniewski points out that human milk is about 55% fat, 6% protein, 39% carbs. Then he suggests a diet with like 5-10% carbs and says the worst diet is high-fat, high-carb. But most people eat 15% protein or more. They don't focus on fats and carbs (aiming for ratios like high cream ice cream & butter cookies). The Japanese and Kitavans eat like 10% protein, but both eat low-fat (around 10-20%). What happens when you eat ratios like human milk?

    Reply
  56. @Mercury

    Babies get a lot of protein per bodyweight so going by overall percentage doesn't tell us anything.

    If an adult eats .5g/kg bodyweight of protein at 6% protein it doesn't equal 2g/kg bodyweight of protein for a baby eating 6% protein.

    5-10% protein is good if you eat a lot of calories. But the less calories you eat the more protein will be 10-15% if aiming for 100 grams of protein per day.

    My definition of less and more calories is different than most though more is like 5000kcal less is like 2500kcal.

    Reply
  57. @Mercury, you said: "Ray thinks carrots are too high in PUFAs, I think." How do you know? look up nutritional data of carrots, they're about 5% fat and about 1-2% Pufa, that seems extremely low. furthermore, ray peat recommends a daily carrot salad or something.

    Reply
  58. I thought Peat regarded carrots as an "anti-nutrient".
    Something about blocking absorption of nutrients from other foods.

    Isn't this also why he recommends them between meals for blocking estrogen absorption in the gut?

    Reply
  59. @Rocket: ray peat quote: "Penicillin treatment, probably by lowering endotoxin production, is known to decrease estrogen and cortisone, while increasing progesterone. The same effect can be achieved by eating raw carrots (especially with coconut oil/olive oil dressing) every day, to reduce the amount of bacterial toxins absorbed, and to help in the excretion of estrogen."

    Reply
  60. BTW: I do not know what the @#$ that means

    Reply
  61. Jannis & JT, thanks for the info :-)

    Matt, totally agree on the video being for a good cause and hopefully helping a lot of people. I just couldn't help but hope that he could be one of them. But that guy surely needs more help than what durianrider can provide :-)

    Lisa, thanks for sharing! :-)

    Okay, only had time for a quickie. Gotta run now.
    .

    Reply
  62. I agree with Anonymous. All 16 of them.

    Reply
  63. Anon – the carrot one.

    Hmm.
    So that suggests an antimicrobial effect then.

    Could've sworn he referred to a direct effect on gut absorption somewhere.

    Anyone else know what the deal is with Ray and carrots? Ahem.

    Reply
  64. Should the raw carrot salad be eaten without any other foods?

    "Raw carrots prevent the absorption of anything you eat with it… so you don't want to eat a big plate of carrot salad when you are eating your main meal, because you might have low sugar for a couple of hours, because it's blocking the nutrients".
    http://www.blogtalkradio.com/eastwesthealing/2011/04/27/dr-ray-peat-glycemia-starch-and-sugar-in-context

    Regarding carroteen:
    "The carrot's orange is carroteen. When you eat it as a whole vegetable, raw, the fibers keep you from absorbing almost all of the carroteen that passes through you. Carroteen works like unsaturated fats in blocking thyroid and progesterone function."
    http://archive.kmud.org/mp3/kmud_101119_190000fritalk.mp3

    Reply
  65. Damn. Is it just me, or are these random names getting weirder and weirder?

    Reply
  66. @Rocket: Ray peat: "A grated carrot with salt and vinegar can produce major changes in bowel health, reducing endotoxin absorption, and restoring constructive hormonal functions" So basically it minimizes endotoxin absorption.

    Reply
  67. And there we have it.

    Good work Marshmallow.

    Thanks, Anon.
    I was thrown a bit by the Penicillin effect bit.

    Reply
  68. So it turns out that those praised sweet potatoes are a no no for their carotene content,turning them into a thread for for those with thyroid disorders?????

    Paul Jaminet from PHD stated that natural carotenes are quite protective, not the same with carotenes suplements, which are quite problematic.

    Reply
  69. JT said…

    Yes, cottage cheese is Peat approved

    Well, to be picky, Peat would complain about the vegetable gums or carrageenan often found in cottage cheese. I don't know how much of a threat this is though.

    http://raypeat.com/articles/nutrition/carrageenan.shtml

    On carrots…

    Peat recommends raw carrot fiber as the best dietary way to lower estrogen. He says that before and after blood tests have shown that it works. He theorizes that it works by preventing estrogen in the bile to be reabsorbed by speeding the transit through the intestine (laxatives have been shown to increase excretion of estradiol). Also he says it's a type of fiber that reduces the bacterial endotoxins absorbed (perhaps by trapping them). As I learned from above, he says that the carotene is not a problem from raw carrots because it is not absorbed. Even so, I would not think carotene is a big concern, as people can ingest so much of it that they turn orange, with no serious side-effects.

    Shannon…

    Just a guess here, but maybe your anemia is caused by the hypothyroidism, and the body reduces its circulating iron as a reaction to it, because according to Peat, iron further contributes to anemia.

    "An excess of iron, by destroying vitamin E and oxidizing the unsaturated fats in red blood cells, can contribute to hemolytic anemia, in which red cells are so fragile that they break down too fast."

    "Iron deficiency anemia does exist, in laboratory situations and in some cases of chronic bleeding, but I believe it should be the last-suspected cause of anemia, instead of the first. It should be considered as a possible cause of anemia only when very specific blood tests show an abnormally low degree of iron saturation of certain proteins." (I wonder what certain proteins)

    I'm only suspicious about taking more iron because there is already so much of it in our common foods. Aside from enriching all grains with iron (especially breakfast cereal), "Meats, grains, eggs, and vegetables naturally contain large amounts of iron. Liver (or even a water extract of wheat germ) can supply as much iron as would be given as a pill, and is safer."

    http://raypeat.com/articles/articles/iron-dangers.shtml

    Also, have you seen this site? http://www.stopthethyroidmadness.com/

    Reply
  70. Jared,
    You are right,'Peat doesn't like the gums and carageenan fillers. But, real cottage cheese isn't supposed to have that stuff in it. My local stores carry cottage cheese without it.

    Reply
  71. Yeah, I was just gonna say that :-)

    If I can't get locally fresh-made cottage cheese, I usually buy Daisy brand — no fillers. Same with their sour cream. Like Jared said, don't know how big a deal it is, but it just tastes so much better to me without the gums and carrageenan and stuff.

    Reply
  72. Jannis:

    "Peat says that a man with normal activity level needs about 100-120g a day."

    Who cares what Peat says? What can he prove? The World Health Org and others cite studies saying 1g/kg I think. More protein increases your need for vitamins and minerals. It also seems well-documented that an abundance of fat, carbs, calories, or all of the above spares protein strongly. Ray's claims are guesses and speculation based on bias. Ray would probably say half of protein should be gelatin, not 25% or less like his followers doing. At least that's the impression I got when I wrote to him a while back.

    If Peat thinks men "need" 100-120g of protein, let him believe it. He also believes (without studies and evidence) that avocados poison the liver and promote cancer, nuts and seeds are toxic from PUFAs, nobody should eat grains because of a rat study where they force-fed them by tube. In short, he believes absurd and biased junk science.

    Reply
  73. QUESTION: Does anyone know what Ray's take is on optimal meal frequency?

    Also, what seems to be the meal frequency of choice among the healthy traditional societies that have been studied? They haven't been influenced by the 3-meals per day Industrialization mantra.

    Reply
  74. "Lunch today:"

    Yaay, blood!

    Reply
  75. Yay, blood!

    The color is off! That's a quart of homeade grape gelatin! It's gonna be too tough to eat it like this. I'm gonna have to just stir some in some juice I reckon.

    Maddmuhh the all knowing,
    Do you know why only some thumbnail pictures (like yours, Matt's, GFM are displayed on the comments here and some aren't, like mine! When signed in with my Google account?

    Reply
  76. Johnny, you need to log into your Blogger account and go to Edit Profile. In there is where you can change the settings to show a picture if you have one uploaded.

    Reply
  77. Johnny,

    I was gonna guess that — grape jello :-) Cause it looked, uh, grape lol! Is it just grape juice and gelatine? Looks yummy. I love jello with whipped cream. Homemade orange jello is my fav with whipped cream cause it tastes like orange julius :-)

    Reply
  78. Hi Shannon
    I am not a doctor so this is not medical advice, but here are my opinions and thoughts on what I would do

    If you have Hashimotos you are pretty much guaranteed to have a gluten problem. I am all about the carbs since coming to 180, BUT I also avoid gluten like the plague. There are numerous studies linking gluten and Hashis. This is because the molecular structure of gluten is very isimilar to the thyroid gland.

    Gluten intolerance or celiac disease is also a massive cause of malabsorption and low iron/vits minerals:

    “Several studies show a strong link between AITD (both Hashimoto's and Graves) and gluten intolerance. The link is so well-established that researchers suggest all people with AITD be screened for gluten intolerance, and vice versa.

    What explains the connection? It’s a case of mistaken identity. The molecular structure of gliadin, the protein portion of gluten, closely resembles that of the thyroid gland. When gliadin breaches the protective barrier of the gut, and enters the bloodstream, the immune system tags it for destruction. These antibodies to gliadin also cause the body to attack thyroid tissue. This means if you have AITD and you eat foods containing gluten, your immune system will attack your thyroid.

    Even worse, the immune response to gluten can last up to 6 months each time you eat it. This explains why it is critical to eliminate gluten completely from your diet if you have AITD. There's no "80/20" rule when it comes to gluten. Being "mostly" gluten-free isn't going to cut it. If you're gluten intolerant, you have to be 100% gluten-free to prevent immune destruction of your thyroid.

    So how do you find out if you're gluten intolerant? Unfortunately, standard lab tests aren't very accurate. They test for antibodies to gluten in the bloodstream. But antibodies in the blood will only be found in cases where the gut has become so permeable that gluten can pass through. This is a relatively advanced stage of disease. Blood tests will miss the many milder cases of gluten intolerance that haven't yet progressed to that stage.

    Stool analysis is far more sensitive, because it detects antibodies produced in the digestive tract that aren't yet escaping into the bloodstream. Using this method at Entero Lab, Dr. Kenneth Fine, a pioneer in the field, has found that up to 35% of Americans are gluten intolerant".

    http://www.thehealthyskeptic.org/the-gluten-thyroid-connection

    I would encourage you to get some proper testing done though, as going gluten free is quite the commitment. However, it is not in the slightest bit difficult. I eat gorgeous homemade GF bread, rice, taters etc. every day and honestly never feel deprived.

    Reply
  79. Hi Shannon
    I am not a doctor so this is not medical advice, but here are my opinions and thoughts on what I would do

    If you have Hashimotos you are pretty much guaranteed to have a gluten problem. I am all about the carbs since coming to 180, BUT I also avoid gluten like the plague. There are numerous studies linking gluten and Hashis. This is because the molecular structure of gluten is very isimilar to the thyroid gland.

    Gluten intolerance or celiac disease is also a massive cause of malabsorption and low iron/vits minerals:

    “Several studies show a strong link between AITD (both Hashimoto's and Graves) and gluten intolerance. The link is so well-established that researchers suggest all people with AITD be screened for gluten intolerance, and vice versa.

    What explains the connection? It’s a case of mistaken identity. The molecular structure of gliadin, the protein portion of gluten, closely resembles that of the thyroid gland. When gliadin breaches the protective barrier of the gut, and enters the bloodstream, the immune system tags it for destruction. These antibodies to gliadin also cause the body to attack thyroid tissue. This means if you have AITD and you eat foods containing gluten, your immune system will attack your thyroid.

    Even worse, the immune response to gluten can last up to 6 months each time you eat it. This explains why it is critical to eliminate gluten completely from your diet if you have AITD. There's no "80/20" rule when it comes to gluten. Being "mostly" gluten-free isn't going to cut it. If you're gluten intolerant, you have to be 100% gluten-free to prevent immune destruction of your thyroid.

    So how do you find out if you're gluten intolerant? Unfortunately, standard lab tests aren't very accurate. They test for antibodies to gluten in the bloodstream. But antibodies in the blood will only be found in cases where the gut has become so permeable that gluten can pass through. This is a relatively advanced stage of disease. Blood tests will miss the many milder cases of gluten intolerance that haven't yet progressed to that stage.

    Stool analysis is far more sensitive, because it detects antibodies produced in the digestive tract that aren't yet escaping into the bloodstream. Using this method at Entero Lab, Dr. Kenneth Fine, a pioneer in the field, has found that up to 35% of Americans are gluten intolerant".

    http://www.thehealthyskeptic.org/the-gluten-thyroid-connection

    I would encourage you to get some proper testing done though, as going gluten free is quite the commitment. However, it is not in the slightest bit difficult. I eat gorgeous homemade GF bread, rice, taters etc. every day and honestly never feel deprived.

    Reply
  80. Michael,

    When I log in it doesn't show my pic even though I have one uploaded. If you click on my name you can see it but not a thumbnail like yours. What gives?

    AS

    Yeah it's just grape juice and gelatin. I'm brand new at this. I'll try out the OJ as well, sounds scrumptious.

    Reply
  81. Michael

    Hey it's working now. I'm not this stupid normally.

    Reply
  82. There's Johnny! :-)

    Okay. Don't forget the whipped cream! :-)

    Reply
  83. I think that one of our lady posters resembles Ray’s mythical great grand-niece. She has a gleeful countenance that may date back to the time when Ray assured her parents that sugar was the real deal, and don’t hold back on the candy and fruit pies.

    Reply
  84. "will the amino acids in animal proteins lower your metabolism and cause more inflammation? Or will the lectins and anti-nutrients in legumes and grains lower your metabolism and cause you more inflammation"

    What about doing what most pre-industrial people did and chuck the tasteless muscle-meats to the dogs and gorge on the sweet slow-roasted tough cuts with all their connective tissue ie. gelatin. I cant even look at skinless chicken breast without suppressing a vomit and feel like shit digestively and energy wise after but after some good ribs or neck bones..WOOOO! Im flying.

    Americans have been convinced to eat shit food for their health and yet our health continues to decline. Eat like your grandparents. My grandpa didnt carry around a bag of nuts and raisins. He ate whole shank bones and made declicious soup from bones of this or that and ate potatoes and bread and beer. Ahh the good old days.

    Reply
  85. Like most of us, you have probably been on T4 only meds or under dosed for most of your life. Also the armour formula was changed in 2009 and it no longer works very well. If you take it, you’d need to take it like this: http://www.stopthethyroidmadness.com/2010/04/25/how-to-make-reformulated-armour-and-naturethroid-work/.

    Otherwise, see about switching to NP thyroid by, ERFA thyroid or Thai thyroid. You may also need T3 or even T3 only.

    I’d advise you to read through around the following websites:

    http://www.stopthethyroidmadness.com/site-map/

    http://forums.realthyroidhelp.com/

    Reply
  86. Collden, how about eating in a traditional French restaurant? The entire cuisine is based on slow cooking the cheap cuts of meat. The more grungy, old school and working class the place, the better. If I want bone broth in the US I always go for dirt cheap Pho at a Vietnamese place. It's beef tendon and bones cooked for hours with spices. Very invigorating, especially if I feel run-down or sick. Since Vietnamese food is pretty low fat, now worries about added PUFAs. Any that are in there are outweighed by the benefits of the broth I think.

    At Easter I bought half a goat, stewed it overnight with some Indian spices and we have been living off of it ever since. (Finally finished it up last week-end.) All told, I think we got about 25 servings out of it…This is a really easy way to make a lot of food that tastes good that is good for you and has probably been missing from your life. My babysitter who is from India was all like "this tastes like the real thing from home!" It also beats trying to make jello from fruit juice appealing to anyone in my family. Even my five year old got sick of that in about two days.

    Reply
  87. Pot: You don't drink water?
    Kettle: No, just juice once a week.
    Pot: Ah, that's why your health is going down hard core.
    Kettle: um.. what? did you call me black?

    wow
    they look like twins to me.
    crazy ass fraternal twins.

    Reply
  88. I really can't advocate that type of lifestyle on my own health blog as their appearance, to me, is not healthy. I can totally understand limiting calorie intake but that seems a bit much. Haha, I agree that they look like "crazy ass fraternal twins."

    Reply

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  1. Anyone else hearing “But meat contains endotoxins!”? - [...] talk about ALL the anti-nutrients in plants, which can block absorption of vital nutrients?! Stupid.http://180degreehealth.com/2011/05/ray-peat-%E2%80%93-protein-and-vegetarian-diets Interesting….  Similar posts:Meat – …

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