Silly Wabbit, Atkins is NOT for Kids!

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I received this email just the other day.  It is a beauty.  There were so many options for what could be used as the title.  I’m actually a little sad at the chosen title, as RRARV would have been a beauty (Rehabilitative Rest and Aggressive Re-Vegasing).  The email was sent by a long-time chronic health masturdebater.  Misadventures include, and are certainly not limited to, a long bout on the Atkins diet, with her kids sort of getting short-changed on carbs during that phase and losing their spunk and having their body temperatures drop (wait for it….), just like ADULTS do!

Anyway, with the incorporation of Easter candy bingeing, Whiskey-spiked milkshakes, and the infamous (gasp!) Frosty – the whole fam damily is banging 98.6 and above and leaving their carborexic lethargy behind.  A little lively commentary by me is included below in RED.  To learn more about how raising your body temperature with food, at home or in Las Vegas, can help improve and in some cases overcome many health problems – both minor and major, read how to RAISE YOUR METABOLISM .

“I started taking Raw Thyroid, Raw Adrenal, and Raw Liver twice a day, and that helped my between-meal fatigue and hand/foot temperature. I can’t really remember time frame with that, as I had a major amount of stress surrounding filing our income taxes (we are self-employed). Anyway, I went to Las Vegas right afterward with my husband for a trade show (it was basically a vacation for me).

Raw Vegas would have been much more effective. 

I decided to treat that vacation as time to really focus on RRARFing. I did try to somewhat avoid PUFAs, but that can be kind of hard in restaurants.

Every morning I went and had a big breakfast with the hubby, then we would part and I would lay in the sun by the pool until I got too hot (no sunblock), and then I would go back to my room and take a nap, until he called me for lunch. I would go and eat a big lunch. Then, I would walk around in the afternoon until dinner time, and then have a big dinner. I had lots of sugar, including something which is my new favorite thing — a chocolate shake with whiskey in it. :)

It’s unfortunate all the time I’ve spent writing, when this paragraph pretty much sums up the ultimate health restoration program in 4 sentences. 

Anyway, my temp totally shot up in Vegas — now it is regularly around 98.5/98.6. So, I’m not sure if I should try discontinuing the thyroid and then maybe the adrenal.

I doubt you will need those if you can take home a little Vegas with ya. 

Upon returning, I picked up my kids from my parents’ house and they were both visibly larger. Taller, yes, but also chunkier. By coincidence, this week was my son’s 10th birthday, so I took him in for a well child check. His temp was 98.9. I took both the kids’ temps back in February, and they were in the high 96’s, which left me feeling very discouraged because I didn’t know how I would get them to warm up without giving them thyroid. I did give them adrenal, but during my tax prep week, I forgot.

Let me guess, the parents aren’t health Nazis and the kids finally ate a bunch of stuff that they needed to rehabilitate their metabolisms from the dark days of Mommy on Atkins (MOA). 

I bought a shit-ton of Easter candy (chocolate) for an egg hunt we did on Tuesday. I’ve left the candy out and we have all been pigging out on it this week. Both the kids have slimmed down. They also seem to have more energy.

I also find the “shit ton” to be the most useful food measurement, but not sure it needs hyphenation.  Maybe.  I don’t know.  I only have a Bachelor’s degree in English.  That’s postgraduate material I think.     

My skin, which had gotten really dry on Atkins, is now really soft like it had been for most of my life. I had always had soft skin like a baby, and it had gone away. I don’t need lotion or anything (I didn’t before Atkins, either). I’m not drinking any more water than I used to, either.

Low thyroid/body temperature, fatigue, sluggishness, and dry skin on Atkins?  That is strange.  Well, unless you consider that Atkins admitted that the Atkins diet “tends to shut down thyroid function…  The diagnosis is made on clinical ground with the presence of fatigue, sluggishness, dry skin, coarse or falling hair, an elevation in cholesterol, or a low body temperature.”

Oh, and before tax week, I was still taking care to have several decaf breves with coconut oil in them to keep my temp up, but I was so busy and stressed out during tax week, I didn’t. I was thinking my temp would probably fall in Vegas without coconut oil, but as I mentioned, it didn’t. I do think the excess stress (my stomach was actually upset because I was so stressed out during tax week) postponed my ovulation and lengthened this month cycle.

No one needs coconut oil to raise metabolism or keep it up.  It can be helpful, just like a fork is helpful for eating, but you don’t need one to keep from starving to death. 

I had caffeinated coffee this afternoon as kind of a test (espresso, actually), and I had been very intolerant to it — it would make my heart race and then I would crash. I haven’t crashed yet, but we’ll see if I am tired, tomorrow.

That’s a pretty good sign.  I would imagine those with poor adrenal function/low thyroid have more of a traumatic reaction to caffeine – especially in large doses (and all stress), than a normal person.   
Oh, and here is the really huge thing. Both my kids and I are tolerating gluten just fine. We have had large amounts every day this week since I got back from Vegas. Last summer, this would have made my daughter vomit. My son would get a runny nose. I would be extremely tired. I was a little tired yesterday, but rather than have white sourdough bread the day before, I decided to try giving us all some Food For Life Sprouted Bread. It probably has a lot more PUFA in it than the white bread.

Gluten Schmuten.  Although I imagine low-carbohdyrate diets making it exponentionally more problematic, as I’ve seen people develop food allergies and sensitivities on low-carb diets repeatedly. 

So, you’re not concerned about the dry milk powder (oxidized cholesterol?) in a Frosty, huh? ‘Cuz I’m about to go get some for my family.

Minutiae.  I think brain freeze is the greater danger here. 

So, thank you!! I feel like we have such increased freedom now! Food is not our prison any longer!”

Me too.  (Inserts Twizzler into mouth).   

 

137 Comments

  1. i'd love for robb wolf or chris kesser to masterdebate you into submission. everyone would learn a lot.

    Reply
  2. I'd love to have Wolf and Kresser's followers open-mindedness, so that the thousands of people that follow them and fail miserably would stop eating a crappy, low-energy, dead-end diet and telling everyone how healthy they are (when they aren't).

    Reply
  3. I listen to both the above guys, but I'm open to your stuff too!
    BUt here's what I want to know:
    Why was I SOSOSOSOSO sick eating normally, eating kind of WAPF, eating HED ( and I gave HED a long try!) but then got SOSOSOSOSO much better when I went on GAPS.
    I think you're totally on to something with the carbs and the gelatin, but I can't dismiss GAPS after experiencing that kind of a change.

    Reply
  4. Also, My Husband has mild tourette-like symptoms. When he eats GAPS they go almost completely away, but when he returns to a normal diet they come back really strong.
    He's never dieted or anything like that either, basically he just stuffs his face with whatever is put in front of him.
    Unconfuse me please.

    Reply
  5. okay, so i know you are against telling people what to eat or what to do and giving samples of your daily diet, but maybe you could reconsider for those of us who don't have the time to do any more reading than your blog. or just give examples of what we *could* be eating. i hear you saying you are eating Frostys (is this the name, as in those cups of ice cream with the wooden spoon you get at ball games, or the ones from Wendy's??–ahh, memories from high school getting a Wendy's frosty and dipping french fries in it) and Twizzlers and pie etc, but what else are you eating?

    i'd also like to know more about the whole "health food, schmealth food!" as in, where do you shop now and do you just buy all conventional foods even meats and dairy? is it okay to buy the cheap produce and animal foods so we can afford to buy more of it? i know this isn't a black and white issue and there are so many who come to this blog and think we who begin to indulge in *gasp* junk food are just asking for an early coffin and then begin to argue that not everybody is the same and we *should* be eating specific things for our specific body blah blah blah….oh, here's the question now that my brain got back in order: is it better to just eat whatever we feel like eating and not worry about the types of foods and how much of each at each meal, or should we still be eating protein, fat and carb at each meal with the added "no-no foods" and just live it up? or is it like, don't put a label on each food, just eat?

    i think i need a vegas vaca, too. haven't even had a date with the husband since baby #2 was born 20 months ago.

    Reply
  6. Really appreciate all your work, Matt. Yes, I have the same question as Kate. What about GAPS? Using sugar to super-charge metabolism is all well and good, but what if the "side effect" in some individuals is a preponderance of harmful bacteria? Perhaps these autistic-type folks with horrible digestive ailments require a more delicate version of RRARF? Perhaps things need to be tweaked a bit for those with hostile populations in their gut? It seems to me that your eating philosophy has the same goal in mind as the GAPS diet: dietary freedom. Is it just that some people need to be more careful with their gut towards the beginning? Your thoughts? Theories?

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  7. Darius,

    I doubt they could. The both have the sluggish, dogmatic thought process that is very common among many paleo quacks.

    Yes, paleo works for some people. Good for them. However, paleo working for those individuals is nothing more than a happy coincidence based on the fact that they are avoiding their personal food "poisons," reducing PUFA compared to SAD, and eating whole foods that are proper for the individual biochemistry. Their success has nothing to do with the fact that they are eating "the diet they evolved to eat."

    Basing nutrition of off evolution is a methodology that is misleading at best, pseudo-scientific and quackery at worst. And the advocates of such an approach are engaging in confirmation bias (ironically, something many of them write about a lot) when they uphold such success as evidence of their methodology, ignoring the millions of other people who are happy and healthy –thriving! in fact– but not eating according to their dogma. If evolutionary based nutrition had as much merit as they claim, such observations would not exist; if we had evolved to eat in a certain way, there would not be members of our species that thrive eating completely different diets than they advocate.

    One test for any theory that claims to be scientific and have explanatory power is whether or not it can predict possible exceptions, and if those exceptions exist, it must be able to explain WHY they exist. Paleo and other "evolutionary based nutrition" theories fail both criteria miserably.

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  8. In my last paragraph, I was talking about theories that claim to be "complete."

    Newtonian mechanics is indeed "correct" and scientific but it is not "complete" nor does it predict or explain the exceptions that were later discovered.

    The advocates of "evolutionary based nutrition" such as paleo often act as though that is the ONLY approach/methodology that is required for understanding human health, that is somehow "complete." It's not, and that is what I was pointing out in my last paragraph.

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  9. Interesting. It seems like the major take-home message here is that any mental/emo stress is worse for you that the specific foods that you put inside. The vacation sounds like an awesome opportunity.

    As far as 'Atkins is not for kids,' which it clearly isn't (unless the kid has epilepsy and it might help to control seizures by slowing the brain down), could it be that looking at what food _is_ for kids is a better angle than the flaky, pixelated zoom of 'traditional diet'?

    Yeah, no need for a hyphen in shit ton.

    Reply
  10. My daughter would agree that shit ton is the best measurement for yummy food. When she actually wants to eat that is :)
    Nice to be (almost) ten.
    xo

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  11. I eat 5000 or more calories a day, most from starchy carbs, with some fruit. Since I stopped using wheat as my go to carb, and replaced it with rice and potatoes, I feel much lighter.

    My hypothesis is that wheat is high in protein. By eating so much wheat every day, I was eating too much protein.

    And eating a lot of wheat makes me feel similar to the way I do when I eat a lot of meat: full, bloated, heavy, and constipated.

    So for me, gluten is a no go.

    Reply
  12. So eat as much of whatever you want and try to avoid pufas is the new holy grail of health. Sorry, but you're really losing me here.

    Reply
  13. I hope all the moms obsessing over every little thing the kids eat read this and realize too much restriction can be unhealthy for their kids.

    Regarding the caffeine, that's a normal reaction. You have a lot more adrenaline on a low carb diet, so the caffeine can feel a lot stronger. When I was on peats high sugar diet I could consume about 5 times the amount of caffeine than I could low carb.

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  14. Matt,

    Are you basically promoting Bruce's HED now? If you read his old messages and your new posts, they are almost exactly the same.

    Reply
  15. @gabriel

    NO, "excessive" amounts gluten is a no go. try eating gluten every once in a while first before you eliminate it entirely. if you feel bloated still, then consider removing it from your diet.

    @ grass fed momma

    i adressed this in an either post but it was deleted or whatever this terrible site does with comments.

    to sum up what wasn't posted, i'm on your side with things. i want people to be better, i'm just tired or reading people giving up on something (be it sugar or gluten) after a small amount of time. people should always push their limits. i do. i apologize if i seem "pushy" or "dickish" but a lot of people here are either A. not very bright or B. still in the midst of healing. not trying to be a dick, just honest. blame my raised testosterone and reduced stress levels on my current attitude (as well as my inexperience with life in general). i would kiss your mouth with mine any time :p

    miller high life, raising body temperatures since 18somethingorother!

    -Anonymous

    Reply
  16. yes i'm drunk. i'm testing out a hypothesis i have about beer and weight gain. I know several friends who drink a lot (one in particular drink a case or more daily) who still maintain a low body fat level. my hypothesis is that since alcohol is similar to fructose in how it's processed and the ability to deal with fructose in increased with an increased metabolism, then alcohol only causes weight gain in those with a shit metabolism. since i'm regularly hitting 98.6-99.2 body temp in the morning i'm assuming my metabolism is not shit. plus, i'm easily under 15% body fat. I'm roughly 170lbs

    plus i'm improving my relationship with food and such. at least, that is what i'm telling myself to rationalize drinking as much beer as i want as often as i want. Risky, but informative.

    i'm dedicated to science like wut.

    -Anonymous

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  17. Matt,

    This post is bordering on irresponsible. Yes, low carb is bad. Yes, any carbs are better than no carbs for a rehab effect.

    But none of that makes the findings of TL Cleave or Robert McCarrison go away, or make PUFAs good for you. You know they're bad, and being so glib about what makes people healthy will cause some people to get the wrong impression. (At least, I hope it's the wrong impression) Calories, carbs, relaxation and sunshine will do wonders in the short term, but someone could read this post and engage in LONG TERM eating of crap and end up fat and diabetic like the rest of America.

    Twizzlers? Seriously? Don't go so far to bash low-carb you end up in a different but equally off-base camp. Just because twizzlers don't down-regulate your metabolism in the short term doesn't mean they're good for you long term.

    Reply
  18. Debbie and lynn are correct that people are here with different goals. Some people are here for weight loss reasons. And I also agree with lynn that she was just sharing her experience.

    I support Anonymous. Anonymous claimed that his/her intent was not selfish, and Anonymous is probably correct. There was simply not enough evidence to prove that Anonymous was trying to "attack" anyone. Though it did sounded that Anonymous was being an "asshole" to a lot of people, I will keep it short and explain my objection.

    To me, it appears that Anonymous was joking when he said "good lord the people matt attracts haha." Notice that Anonymous had written "haha" at the end of the sentence. Anonymous wrote "haha" probably to let us know that Anonymous was not being serious in that sentence.

    In addition, I disagree with the claim that Anonymous was being "arrogant." I do not think Anonymous believes that some of the 180 followers are "stupid" or "ignorant." What Anonymous was probably trying to say was that we need to be more skeptical and approach all theories with an attitude of discretion. Anonymous was probably just promoting his/her own ideas of a skeptical/discreet attitude to science, irrelevant to lynn.

    Most people are self-absorbed. What we mean is that if one is criticizing another, he/she are just trying to promote their own ideas; not to "attack" the one he/she is criticizing. That is what I believe to be true, and this has helped me a lot in not taking criticism personally.

    Do not get me wrong. I am not saying that lynn can tolerate sugar. Everyone is different, depending on their state of metabolic health and/or genetics. Lynn has demonstrated this fairly well in her first post. Sugar may just not work for some people such as lynn. And I accept that.

    My point is that there is no evidence that Anonymous' intent was to "attack" lynn.

    Reply
  19. Ok Organism, good point on the 'ha ha'. I guess I felt that people were called stupid a few too many times by 'anonymous' and it started to bug me.

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  20. Best line of the whole post…

    "I doubt you will need those if you can take home a little Vegas with ya."

    Kirk and Brock, I think Matt's message with this one was just to lighten up a little :-)

    JT, I thought of Bruce too. I was thinking… Hey, it's the Brucester's FAD diet!

    My new favorite saying = Shit ton it! :-)

    Reply
  21. Anonymous said…

    "yes i'm drunk."

    You had me laughing so hard!

    And this…

    "plus i'm improving my relationship with food and such. at least, that is what i'm telling myself to rationalize drinking as much beer as i want as often as i want. Risky, but informative.
    i'm dedicated to science like wut."

    Priceless!

    Reply
  22. Debbie, thank you for your explanation.

    Reply
  23. Brock,

    Do you live close to Matt? Maybe you can check on him and see if he is OK. I'm being serious and not trying to make a joke about this. I really wonder if something is going on with him.

    Reply
  24. Love is going on with him JT.

    Remember when you first dated someone and how wrapped up in them and giddy you were and devil may care? How you did not talk to many of your guy friends or even family, just so you had more time for your gal?

    Yea, that is my theory. It is spring you know.
    Twizzlers indeed.

    Reply
  25. I find it interesting that some folks think that my RRARFing in Vegas meant that I just ate a bunch of crap the whole time. Oh, I mean a shit ton of crap.

    The point is that I did not *worry* about every little thing I put in my mouth — I ate what sounded good (which included protein, fat and carbohydrates), ate at good restaurants, got rest, and had a great time.

    Stress is a huge detractor from health. It's too bad we all can't afford to live like that all the time. But we can choose to not freak out over every food choice, which would alleviate a lot of the stress for us (recovering) orthorexics, and go a long way toward the health improvement we claim we desire.

    Reply
  26. I just caught up on Matt's latest posts, and I'm a little confused.

    Are we Peatards now?

    Or are we just back on the SAD?

    Reply
  27. @grass fed momma

    i would never call anyone here flat out stupid. i may get frustrated and say a person's short sighted, or "not very bright", but never flat out dumb. the fact that they are here says something positive about their intelligence. unless it's just another stop on their long and tumultuous journey through every diet ever for the sake of looking for the next big thing. and it seems there are people who are here doing just that. very unfortunate.

    btw, i am a male.

    -Anonymous

    Reply
  28. I am so impressive know this good think this the name, as in those cups of ice cream with the wooden spoon you get at ball games, I think you're totally on to something with the carbs and the gelatin, Yes, paleo works for some people. Good for them. I was pointing out in my last paragraph. My hypothesis is that wheat is high in protein.

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  29. It's also good to remember that just because you can metabolize food really fast so you don't gain weight on it, it doesn't mean that poor quality food is good for you to eat or is doing your body any good. I think it is so hard to say what the right diet is because EVERYONE I have ever met eats a different diet. Stressing out over your food is bad, but finding ways to cook your own food is also important. I work in social sevices and see case after case of people that are very sick, and it appears to me it is due to their diet. I see them eating lots of sugar and PUFAs and poor quality meat. Though I have never done a suvey (which would be interesting to know…) oh yeah and lots and lots of soda and energy drinks. Anyways, my points is sugar is not always your friend.

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  30. I have been reading the 180 Degree Health blog along with related sources like Ray Peats websites and the AV Skeptics forum for a while now. I came here in search for ameliration of several health conditions I myself imposed by eating a forced and bad diet and being instilled enormous amounts of antibiotics.

    I know this may sound exorbitantly solemn but I refer to you as my last resort. I am only 20 years old and I feel like my life is on the verge of ending. In my early teens up until when I was 17 and started bodybuilding I was a extremely anxious, cold-sweating and skinny teenager. Skinny not only in the context of being emaciated but also in the sense of having very small bone structure. My hands are literally that of woman. On top of that I had very bad skin which only contributed the my problems with anxiety as you may imagine. Despite the fact of being a good looking fairly liked guy I quickly fell into depression and isolated myself. As you may understand I was completely oblivious of any underlying health problems and didn't even contemplate to consult a professional let alone think about my diet.

    When I turned 17 I started to bodybuild and surprisingly I was able to gain muscle quite quickly to the point of being accused of using steroids, which I never did. It didn't do anything for my existing health problems but rather developed into an obsession which, along with a diet as high as 350 grams in protein even worsened my condition. After 2 years I stopped to bodybuild and consulted several doctors, one of which was a dermatologist who put me on a devastating 6 months cycle of antibiotics. Other doctors doing my blood work and urine tests were congratulating on my perfect health – only one of them decided to prescribe a anti depressant drug claiming that all my symptoms were psychosomatic.

    This was the most horrible time of my life, my depression and acne got so bad that I wished to die everyday of my life. I quit school and hated everyone including myself. Up until I manned up and tried to find cause and cure by myself. One year ago I came to the conclusion that diet must be the main contributing factor. Low carb well improved many of my symptoms, but I wasn't satisfied. I lurked Charles Washingtons forum thinking I found the holy grail of all diets after experiencing great euphoria and mental focus in the first two weeks of commencing the diet. I guess you know what happened after this initial success.

    Still I endured the sudden downfall and continued zero carb thinking this low would only be temporary. I for the first time consciously noticed the thick white coating on my tongue and thought I found the cause of all my problems – candida. I did several anti fungal cures, which did not help one single bit. What I did not understand is why the cutting out of all those infamous carbohydrates didn't yield any results.

    This is when I found Bruce Kleisners (Ians), Ray Peats and Matt Stones advice. Getting terrible stomach aches from potatoes I am now trying to the Ray Peatish approach with some muscle meat, lots and lots of juice and fruit and gelatin. This is the first diet that brought great results as in imrpoving my skin to almost really good and elevating my mood a little bit. But still I am not able to get rid of the heavy tongue thrush, aswell as my annoying tinnitus which worsened with the insertion of carbohydrates and the depression (which now is of bipolar like nature, meaning that I sometimes feel really good). I suspect that my macros may be somewhat off.

    I would be really glad if someone gave me a hint on what I could improve or where my problems might originate from – the local doctors could not. I would even pay for a consultation given that it is not too expensive.

    greetings from Germany
    Marcel

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  31. Hi Marcel,
    maybe trying a potassium supplement might help, potassium citrate, or potassium gluconate.

    Your symptoms sound much like a potassium deficiency. It's a wide spread problem, and the symptoms include tinnitus, skin problems, exhaustion etc.

    This is why people on high fruit, high veg diets have usually more energy.

    I myself cured my sleep problems, skin problems and my exhaustion with just adding potassium. A high potassium diet is enough in the long run, but at first supplementing might give fast results.

    Just a thought, and it helped me a lot.

    Maybe also adding some iodine would be a good idea, eating some fish, kelp, and mussels etc. is enough for most.

    I wish you all the best on your recovery.

    I must also say my thanks to Matt and all the people commenting here, this blog has helped me a lot.

    -Emma

    Reply
  32. Marcel,
    What does the tongue thrush look like? Eating a raw carrot a day can eliminate bad bacteria in your intestine, which are responsible for fur on the tongue.
    To support your intestine you should eat smaller meals more often. This will reduce bacterial overgrowth and endotoxin. It also helps with thyroid function. Milk, gelatine and OJ are very good foods for regular small meals.
    Hypothyroid people often have problems with milk digestion initially, because hypothyroidism reduces the lactase enzym, but they normally adapt after a few weeks.

    Reply
  33. Hey Emma and Jannis,

    Thank you for your kind responses. I will definitely look into the potassium deficiency issue. As you describe the symptoms indeed sound very similar.

    Jannis, thank you for your useful recommendations. I am always very concerned about my macronutrient intake. What is your take on this? Since you recommend milk your protein and fat intake must be pretty high. Do you still eat muscle meat?

    The coating on my tongue looks very similar to this picture (maybe even a little more severe in the sense of being thicker and more yellowish): http://www.badbreath-cure.info/wp-content/uploads/2009/09/whitegeographictongue.jpg

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  34. My son, who is slightly autistic, was having bad stomach aches to the point that he could not stay a full day at school. Every day after lunch he would get sick, go to the office, and we would come to pick him up. This went on for months. His developmental doc had previously suggested that we take him off gluten, but he has so many allergies to other foods that if we took him off gluten, he wouldn't have anything that he could eat. At the end of our rope, we took him off gluten and…BANG…stomach aches stopped almost immediately. We found the holy grail.

    So now he's been doing well for a while now, so we took him on an Easter egg hunt and when it was over, they handed out treat bags which had a large bakery sugar cookie. He wanted the cookie but we explained to him that it would give him a belly ache, blah, blah, blah. He's 7 y.o. so at that moment he just wanted that cookie, so we told him that he could have it but he will get sick from it. So he ate the cookie and (wait for it…) nothing. He didn't get sick or anything. What's up with that?

    Is gluten dose dependent? Is there a build-up factor? It just doesn't make sense. He still gets occasional stomach aches but nothing like it was before. I still travel an hour to get him gluten-free, dairy-free, soy-free pizza's. I just don't understand it.

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  35. Haha. I love getting everyone's panties in a wad. One of the great joys of life.

    The point of this post, and what many people need to heal isn't always switching over to eating more high-quality nutritious food. Some people need to relax, and understand that a little sugar or white flour or what have you in the diet isn't going to have much of a negative impact, and may, because of calorie-density, even have a strikingly positive impact as long as the rest of the diet is very nutritious.

    Say what you want about T.L. Cleave or McCarrison or whomever – the ideas that people had about health rarely yielded health status or longevity that was superior to people who had no concept of nutrition or refined vs. unrefined carbohydrates and so on.

    Marcel above would have been much healthier if he just continued to eat a crappy diet. But no, he had to go zero carb, be seduced by a catecholamine blitz during the first few weeks, and then continue down the rabbit hole and screw himself (don't worry Marcel, odds are you will be able to recover just fine with a few minor tweaks and persistence).

    The bottom line is that you can still raise your metabolism with a relaxed approach that includes stuff like ice cream, milk shakes, chocolate, candy, juice, you name it. Or at least some people will. This family did. I'm just reporting on their experiences. Deep down, I am suspecting that being healthy and/or raising metabolism is a million times easier than I ever expected, and doesn't take turning into a health nut to accomplish.

    Why force people to torture themselves with sugar restriction or slaving away making oxtail stew and potatoes all day if they can get the same results, or even better results, living their lives and having some convenience foods?

    I don't have a good answer for that, because there is no reason for it. I want to strip down any advice I give to the absolute bare minimum of mental interference with what is and is not a healthy food.

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  36. Marcel-

    I think the ultimate way to increase the thrush on your tongue is to have a lot of milk and fruit together.

    I think you'll do best sipping juice throughout the day whenever you feel like having a sip and having a couple of regular, hearty meals (starch, meat, fat, veggies, etc.) when you feel hungry and feel the need for something more substantial.

    Just try to keep your sugar up and stress hormones down – the opposite of zero carb. Very frequent eating, consuming food until you are totally satisfied and not craving another bite, giving in to all cravings and eating whatever sounds tasty, and trying to relax and get good sleep should be plenty to have you back on track.

    Don't overthink it too much. Your body knows what it needs pretty well if you listen. Like if you exercise hard or don't get enough sleep you'll often crave sweeter foods like cookies or ice cream – or even sweeter stuff than that like just pounding orange or grape juice and find them tasting a lot better. This is not an accident. The body knows what it needs to shut down stress hormone production and generate real energy.

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  37. Kate -

    Like I talked about in our email exchange, GAPS, which is invariably high in fat and protein and low in carbohdyrate (you reported eating 150 grams per day or less), yields long-term consequences for a lot of people (yourself included based on what you told me). GAPS would be much better if it were more carbohdyrate-based and favored sugars over starches and foods rich in polysaccharides. Then people would avoid the collateral damage of being on a prolonged low-carb diet. Almost all the GAPPERS I've dealt with accumulated low body temps, cold hands and feet, and other issues of overt hypothyroidism and hypoadrenia over the long-term.

    The idea may be that one can graduate from GAPS, but I'm not seeing it. I don't even think the theory about rehabilitating the gut is accurate. I'd think someone could fast on juice or fruit or something for two weeks and make more progress in healing the gut than a year on GAPS, but that's just my hunch. In my experience, there is no finer and quicker way to clear out gut inflammation and restore normal gut flora.

    Reply
  38. I believe shit-ton is a compound adjective and, as such, would require a hyphen. I have no degree in English.

    Reply
  39. Marcel,
    I agree with Matts advice on mixing the fruit and milk,'it's a bad combo for most.

    I disagree with Matts advice that all you need to do is drink a bunch of juice and drop your stress hormones. This could be really horrible for you if you already have an adrenal deficiency. This will make your condition worse, not better. This could be part of you problem, especially if you felt better on a low carb diet. Maybe raising catecholamines on the low carb diet is what you needed.

    I would also remember that there are no "healthy" foods, just like there is no healthy diet. There is only going to be health for you. You discovered this with the potatos, they are not healthy good for everyone, they make me sick too if I eat too many. You probably have other food allergies, you need to discover what these are an avoid then until you build yourself up. Most importantly find a medical professional that can test your hormone levels, especially adrenals. Sounds like you have something going on there. I would def get full labwork done on everything I could if I was you.

    Reply
  40. Deb,
    I don't think that is healthy if it is taken too far. I've known plenty of people that get wrapped up in bad relationships that end up ruining their lives. A healthy relationship would be when your partner wants you to succeed in other areas of your life including with your profession, friends, and family. The bad ones need all of your attention so that they make the other areas of your life worse.

    Reply
  41. Real Will,
    My personal experience with food allergies is that they are dose dependent. I can eat something with eggs in it every once in a while without a problem, but i would be in pain if i ate a big plate for breakfast every morning. Many naturopaths help food allergies by eliminating them for a time, and then reintroduces them on a less frequent basis later on.

    I have heard of Severe allergies like peanut that have been helped with and opposite approach. Tiny doses frequently to help with life threatening reactions. But, I'm not sure how well it works, and should definitely only be done with the help of a qualified doctor.

    Reply
  42. JT time will tell, I wish Matt well with his gal. Kinda like food, to each his own! Xo deb

    Reply
  43. Matt Stone said: " GAPS would be much better if it were more carbohdyrate-based and favored sugars over starches and foods rich in polysaccharides."

    You can eat high-carb on GAPS. The point is the carbs you eat are monosaccharides, from vegetables and ripe fruit. It cuts out starch, disaccharides, etc. So the sugar on GAPS is predigested, as it were. You can eat tons of fruit on the GAPS diet, it's fully allowed.

    If you have blood sugar problems GAPS says to eat a honey and butter mixture throughout the day.

    The idea of GAPS is to eat lots of nutritious and easily digested foods so your gut can heal, then you can start eating foods that you couldn't before.

    Reply
    • Matt obviously doesn’t know what it is like to have a gut disorder. The foods that scd or gaps resrict are exactly the ones that give me trouble and have most of my life. I could never understand it as I would have doctors tell me I must have food allergies. But I knew that I.reacted badly to starched and sugars and how could I be allergic to those. I felt relief and just knew that scd was on the right track. It takes me from incapacitated to functional. I have been helped by mats advice to up carb. I had gone pretty low carb and it was affecting my energy. I can tell a difference letting myself have more honey, carrots, fruit etc. I wish I could have the potatoes and grains but they give me constipation and diarrhea and pain. I just can’t digest them at this point. Help from Matt in ways to do what he says for people who are helped by scd/gaps and can’t tolerate the starches would be appreciated.

      Reply
  44. I wish Matt the best too Deb. I hope the old Matt makes a comeback. His blog used to be great. Not just because of his posts, but mainly because of the comments. His posts were just sort a conversation starter, and then the real magic would happen when he would debate with others on the comments. Now, he doesn't even make an effort to keep it dynamic and interesting like it was in the past.

    Matt, maybe you could get people you agree on everythin with like the Rubins to write guest posts and field your comment section while you take a vacation and get your game back. I would think that is something they could do for you since you sent them so much business and gave the free advertising.

    Reply
  45. @real will I have a friend w severegluten allergy/celiacs. After being clear he 'cheated' for 3 months then got the worst reaction ever. One cookie may not trigger your son but a series of them most likely would.

    Reply
  46. Thanks JT. We bought a "cookie card" for that store (it's a $1 and he can get a cookie at the bakery every visit for a year and the proceeds got to Children's Hospital). We figured that a good sugar cookie once a week when we go shopping might just be OK for him.

    Reply
  47. Mattie don't be hatin' on oxtail stew! It's why God created crock pots !
    Xo da hag

    Reply
  48. Thanks Deb. I will definitely keep that in mind. Not that he's 'cured' but OK for the occasional cheat. That's good to know.

    Reply
  49. JT-

    Damn. You have some thing to say about every thing and you take things too literally and too seriously some times. For example Grass Fed Momma was just pointing out the "love bug" we all get when love is new. Its the hormonal changes you go thru in love that someone was talking about before. Yes some relationships are more healthy (pun? yep) than others but that was beside the point.

    I have a hunch that the reason you have food allergies is because you keep your body in a constant state of starvation and can not recover. I'm not looking for a debate with you. That's just the way I see it. Now I will shut up.

    Peace.

    Reply
  50. Psychic,
    I have been eating as much as I can 5-6 times a day for the past year because I am trying to gain weight. Because of this you think my body is in starvation mode?

    Reply
  51. I thought JT said he was gone and was never gonna comment on here again. I miss Chief. Somebody send up a smoke signal for that bastard.

    Reply
  52. JT,

    I agree, Matt's presence on the comment section and his debates with people is what made this blog great. You "hit the nail on the head," so to speak.

    Lately he just leaves…well, somewhat mocking comments against any detractors, if he bothers to address them at all.
    …………

    But hey, perhaps you're right Deb, perhaps it is just love. I know I act the fool over a pretty face sometimes, whether it be love or infatuation.

    Regardless, I wish Matt the best; I've never met him, but he seems like a great guy, and I've learned a lot from him. And I owe my improved/recovered health to HED (RRARF) and that is the sort of debt of gratitude one never forgets.

    Johnny,

    I, for one, am glad that JT is back and has resumed commenting.

    Reply
  53. Psychic,

    JT's food allergies are due to his very restrictive diet. Sure, he has one cheat meal a week, but otherwise he sounds like a your typical anxiety-ridden, up-tight orthorexic. Of course he will deny this, but eating 5-6 times a day (chicken, rice, ghee or some similar variation) sounds quite bland, miserable, and mechanical. There's definitely more sanity in Stoner's approach.

    Reply
  54. Yep. Starvation is not just calorie deficiency. Nutrient deficiency is starvation too regardless of how many calories.

    Reply
  55. Truely encouraging Matt, thank you. I tried to incorporate the advice you guys gave me today, meaning that I drank orange juice throughout the day and had two big meals consisting of potatoes/organic butter/a carrot/gelatin and along with shellfish or beef. I seperated those meals from my orange juice intake. And guess what? The usual bloating and stomach ache after my meals did not occur – it must be linked to the combination of orange juice and potatoes.

    Another pleasant thing is, that after the first meal the thrush on my tongue is almost completely gone. How did that happen?

    I am still unsure about how much fat to eat – I guess I am still somewhat unable to interpret my body's signs because I was overfeeding or undereating for years now. Matt, one comment of you sparked my interest: you said that too much fat could be hazardous for an individual with hypotyhroidism. Would be very nice if you could elaborate.

    Thank you very much guys,
    greetings Marcel

    Reply
  56. @JT;-) yeah guest bloggers would be fun!

    Reply
  57. @Real Will–one more thought about your son and occasional cheats. I have celiac, but was 'psyched' by my dad into eating gluten and not puking when I was 6 yrs old (long, weird story). I then ate some gluten semi-regularly until I was nineteen (and was doubled over with stomach pain, developed an ED, etc) throughout my teens, until (during a stressful time early in college) I started to get the most awful reactions from it again.

    So I think it's definitely dose dependent–I also think that in my case I'd been ignoring bad symptoms way too long to please my dad, and it all built up. But my hunch is that if I accidentally ate some gluten right now, it might not be too bad (although my last incident, eighteen months ago, was horrible–but I was really sick in general then too).

    So with your son, I'm sure you'll monitor really closely–once a week may be too often? And definitely don't let him think that he's pleasing you by not getting sick from it… I hope it all goes well.

    Reply
  58. I, for one, am glad that JT is back and has resumed commenting.

    Glad to hear it. I, 42, am glad he is back as well. He and I go way back.

    Reply
  59. Speaking of eating a lot of pineapple and tongue's hurting, mine is too. I brought a pineapple for lunch today and ate the whole thing. Sure was scrumptious, but the left half of my tongue (that is 50% numb from a botched wisdom tooth extraction last year) is hurting. Thoughts?

    Reply
  60. The Real Will, I have a son with severe autism. We saw much improvement on the gf diet. It was amazing how much he improved. Then we saw even more improvement when we started using trienza and added gluten back in. He also had several other food sensitivities that would cause major melt down type tantrums and the trienza helped with those as well. You might want to check it out.

    Stacey

    Reply
  61. Johnny,

    I hope you didn't think I was attacking you. 'Cause I wasn't. : )

    Oh, and regarding "pineapple tongue." I do the same thing, and I read once that is is the bromelain protease enzyme(s). Bromelian dissolves protein, including the surface of your tongue, so it makes it feel numb or sometimes sore. Interesting, though, that it is only the left half of your tongue. Maybe something else is up? Anyway, just my 2 cents.

    Reply
  62. Matt,
    I love what you have to say here. I believe that taking the rigidness out of all of the nutrition rules can do more healing than almost any other advice out there. There are so many rules and contradictions. Breathing, relaxing, trusting health is our birthright, our bodies know what they need, enjoy life, be happy, follow your bliss, etc can heal us more than we may know. Especially for children. This may not be exactly what Matt is saying, but it is what I am saying and inferring from what I am reading here. Peace. All is well ya'll. Envision the health you desire, know you deserve it, allow it to come to you.

    Reply
  63. Naw, I was just quoting him from a while back about leaving. I didn't think you were attacking me. I'm glad he's back too.

    Oh, glad to hear maybe it's not just me and that it's not my bum tongue. Thanks homey.

    Reply
  64. Psychic and friend,
    You guys are hilarious! I have admitted my ortho tendencies in the past and that has caused me a lot of misery over the years. But, I'm definitely not very strict right now. For example, just my 5th meal yesterday was 2 large burritos with about a pound of bison meat in them, a cerveza, and 2 large pastries. That doesn't sound very restrictive to me. Again, I am trying to gain weight, but I will agree with you that most of the time I keep things very strict, probably 90% strict meals.

    But, I think I felt better when i kept my carbs a little lower and kept my diet a little tighter.

    Reply
  65. My god, I feel so frustrated. Where do you find truth in this mess of contradiction? Why is it super groovy to feel awesome eating twizzlers but not low carbing or IFing? My sense is that Matt has asked us to take a leap of faith against some of the testimonials to the contrary, by arguing that people who feel good on paleo, or IF, or low carb, or whatever, are bullshitting themselves and dooming themselves long term. I'm supposed to take it on faith that you're going to adrenally fatigue yourself and feel more and more lousy unless you start eating Matt's way.

    And yet, posts like this are supposed to convince me of what? That not restricting yourself is health promoting? Sure, got it. But saying screw it and not caring about food quality or sugar content based on even possibly a whole buslosd of short term testimonials- so what? Like you said, I could take meth and probably feel better than ever, and sing it's praises, at least for a while.

    I don't feel opposed to expanding our sense of dietary freedom- I don't feel opposed to eating sugar or junk food as much as you want, honestly.

    I just don't understand why this is the new *it* thing when lots of people report feeling good eating all sorts of different dietary plans, yet 180 is quick to talk shit about them, and discourage people like me from giving them a fair shake. The placebo effect is real, and so is the nocebo effect.

    At least some consistency here- acknowledge that part of the reason some people feel bad IFing or eating lots of muscle meat or walnuts or whatever is because they might become convinced of it from folks like Matty here.

    Come on man- this is the guru stuff I mean. If it gets Matt's seal of approval, everything's gravy. If it doesn't, it's gotta be no good. I want some consistency and disclosure about why people feel good or bad eating certain things, so that we have some predictive power over why that thing would or wouldn't work.

    You say above that for some people, eating junk is a revelation that health can be easy and doesn't require the stress of endless restriction. Agreed. But that caveat is important- someone who is eating that sort of unrestricted SAD and feels lousy and unhealthy probably won't respond with boundless energy when they pound the easter candy, and for your credibility, Matt, it's important that you be clear for whom eating this way would work wonders for and for whom it wouldn't.

    In my mind, the emphasis should be on the freedom from restraint, not some magical properties of junk food.

    And also, it's a real slippery slope and tricky when you start supposing you know better than the individual in question how good they feel. If someone claims to feel good on Leangains, by what authority do you make the assesment that they're wrong, or *actually* unhealthy. Why should someone then not presume that someone pounding the key lime pie isn't similarly deluding themselves into believing they're experiencing good health?

    Confused as heck, man. Lay it out for me, Matty, or anyone else on board here.

    Reply
  66. Thanks DML. We need you to comment more so we can get the ideas going again like they did during the glory days of 180!

    Johnny, I did stop, but got bored and missed all you guys so I thought I'd make a comeback! Don't know how long.

    Reply
  67. Rob–epic comment!

    Kind of ties in with all the talk about restrictive diets vs Gabrielesque talk of freedom: how much of it is in each individual's head?

    I'm starting to see that there may be no contradiction between eating within certain, possibly strict, parameters and feeling totally satiated, unstressed, thyroid-revved, vibrant. After all, those 'traditional' diets were all 'restricted' in comparison to what's in the supermarkets these days. I'm only early 30's and I remember a far smaller range of foods being available when I was a kid (in UK and Israel).

    But I want to hear twizzler justifications too!

    Reply
  68. "I also find the "shit ton" to be the most useful food measurement, but not sure it needs hyphenation. Maybe. I don't know. I only have a Bachelor's degree in English. That's postgraduate material I think. "

    THIS! Matt, I bloody love you. (Sorry I've been spending too much time on tumblr lately).

    Have found my Peatery has brought some positives: increased energy, decreased PMS (a biggie that was still escaping me) and body temp boosts. Last time I did it, I gained belly fat, a lot of it, in a short period of time. One month and no fat gain whatsoever. I'm doing lots of fruit, juice (with gelatin) bone broth and I'm not eating muscle meat as much. I've been very strictly low PUFA, though I did have fried chicken the other night because fried chicken is still delicious even though it's pretty evil. I think maybe that being low PUFA for a longer period is what kept the belly fat from going crazy this time? Don't know. I've been eating the coconut oil like a mad woman as well.

    Reply
  69. RobA,
    Excellent post! You really pointed out some contradictory thinking going on.

    If you feel good on a little lower carb then you are supposedly just on a "chatecholamine high" and its going to kill you, but if you feel good on junkfood then you are really healthy. Same exact critique of every other diet except for the one he is currently on.

    Reply
    • I think to say that someone is really healthy when they feel good on junk food is a foolish statement. Why even play Russian roulette by gorging on junk food, waiting to see how long before your health fails. One thing that Weston Price contributed that was so valuable was his documentation of how time and time again health deteriorated when people abandoned or unadulterated their nutrient dense traditional foods for as Price termed it, the displacing foods of modern commerce. The peoples he studied had widely different diets. Some had high carb some had high protein and fat, but the thing they all had in common was that they were much higher in vitamins and minerals. I am glad Matt pointed out the fallacy of the carbohydrate theory, but that doesn’t negate the importance of nurition.

      Reply
  70. Ela,
    You make a really great point too! Real dietary freedom is being able to do what works for you independent of what some diet guru says is the right way. Thinking you must eat tons of sugar to be healthy even if it makes you feel like crap is just as restrictive as any other diet.

    Reply
  71. @ What Rob said…

    Yeah, what he said!

    Matt, you know we gotta keep you on your toes :-)

    Matt Stone said…

    "Say what you want about T.L. Cleave or McCarrison or whomever – the ideas that people had about health rarely yielded health status or longevity that was superior to people who had no concept of nutrition or refined vs. unrefined carbohydrates and so on."

    So true. And that's, in part, why, what for it… traditional (gasp!) diets and principles of traditional peoples (who had no concept of nutrition) is "relevant" to me. At least until Matt publishes the source code to his superior dietary secrets :-)

    PS. And do I need to point out the obvious contradictory double standard in that quoted statement, as well, or no?

    Reply
  72. I'm just as confused as everybody else. I once read:
    "We know this for sure: Eating food will make you become sick and die in the long run. If you stop eating food, you will become sick and die, too. At least, you'll know it wasn't the food that killed you."

    What a frustrating perspective…

    Maybe freeing oneself from restrictions (the diet mentality) is what causes some people to have spectacular results on various diets. That's what I think in hindsight about Paleo. So many people restrict their fat intake these days (and with it their experience of flavor, aroma, basically the joy of eating), it would not be surprising if they felt a tremendous relief at being able to eat all the fat they want (and maybe eat as much as they want). Ironically, this might be the reason why it did not work for me. I felt deprived most of the time.

    The thing is: getting rid of a starvation mentality is harder than you think. It seems to be a self-esteem issue. You don't feel loved enough and once that belief has taken root in your heart it determines your outlook on life and your behavior. I am not saying that this is true for everyone. I am not so new-agey as to believe that our beliefs create our illnesses and nothing else. But I think that ideas can play a role in bad health and considering this possibility doesn't hurt (well, maybe it does but not physically).

    Reply
  73. Marcel,
    I am glad to hear that changing your eating patterns produced such immediate results. Your first post had left me a bit worried. I have a question for you: You wrote that you kept your OJ and meals separate. Can you tell us by how much time?

    Reply
  74. Thanks Jt and Ela,

    On your point, Ela- reminds me of some research demonstrating that we actually are happier when we have fewer choices. One article about that here: http://www.biopsychiatry.com/happiness/choice.html

    We think having an infintie variety makes us more and mroe happy, but in economist's terms, we actually then have compounded lost opportunity costs more than satisfaction. So if you have to choose between a red and green apple, you don't feel as bad about the choice you didn't make as if you had thirty different apples to choose from, and you wonder whether you got just the right mix of characteristics you were after (crunchy, not mealy, crisp, a little tart, juicy, with a small core) and not the ones you didn't want.

    At times, I've committed to eating only food from the farmer's market, and it's actually liberating not to have to navigate the myriad options of the supermarket.

    So I hear you and think that's a good point- choice doesn't necessarily = happiness, and restriction can actually be experienced as abundance.

    Reply
  75. I would just like to say to Marcel, you're young, with time you will heal, and relax because there is no possible way your "hands are literally that of woman."

    Reply
  76. @What AS said- word!

    It's gonna be a good wedding night! :-D

    Reply
  77. Jenny,

    How are you mixing your gelatin and juice? I've tried and all of the gelatin seems to sink to the bottom and never mix with the juice.

    Reply
  78. Rob, yes it is! Hope we can wait :-)

    Hey, very good points about infinite variety and too many choices. And it rings true for me. The more choices I have, the more stressful it is to me. A supermarket is definitely more stressful to me than a farmer's market. Going to a farmer's market (love'em!) and picking from the few (and yummier!) foods available is very liberating to me.

    PS. BTW, did you get my reply to your last email?

    Reply
  79. AS,

    Yes indeed m'dear. Response forthcoming :-)

    Reply
  80. Okay. Just makin sure you got mine. No rush :-)

    Reply
  81. Thanks so much Rob–I'll definitely read that. It's fascinating how choice works toward stress.

    I remember Chief (yes, where is he?) saying on here that there were foods that he did not even consider as food. I resonate with this–as a lifelong veggie, there are lots of foods, especially processed meats, that aren't even on my radar. But there's a huge difference between this attitude and the attitude that feels deprived, stressed, overwhelmed with options.

    And think of it: there are foods eaten on a daily basis in certain countries of whose existence we feel completely unaware. So, we don't think of these as food or feel deprived by them. But–take durian and raw vegans (including myself for a long time)–bizarre food, never heard of it, many nations do without–and suddenly it's the be all and end all, and is also controversial because it's both sweet and fatty=bad food combining, and suddenly the stress is way high!

    So–a distinction between growing some blinkers and looking jealously at greener grass on the other side of the fence.

    Reply
  82. SirHC said…

    "Also, anyone know how many craploads are in a shit-ton?"

    That was a good one lol!

    But have we established yet which way is correct, with or without the hyphen? Also, anyone know if "craploads" should be hyphenated?

    Reply
  83. Back to pineapple – hubby's tongue will actually bleed. Also, don't use fresh pineapple on your Eater ham. It will, unfortunately, cause it to turn into the consistency of baby food. Sigh… and double sigh, esp after ponying up the big bucks for the "happy" ham. And inviting people over. I guess the Bromelain in canned pineapple must be deactivated.

    Reply
  84. One more example- Richard Nikolay posted another 'Real Results' entry today: freetheanimal.com/2011/04/low-carb-man-hank-garner-sheds-100-pounds-in-six-months.html

    Why should I believe Hank is worse off than the writer of this post, who has a high temperature? By most markers, he is in better shape than he was before. And the fact that he used low carb eating to lose weight does not mean he has to stay that way. Nikolay eats carbs now too, and doesn't go ketogenic. I don't think even Kurt Harris eats ketgenically regularly, though he used to. I mean, what's the standard besides body temperature? By most accounts, Nikolay's blood work posted most recently was exceptionally healthy ( freetheanimal.com/2011/01/yikes-look-what-all-that-starch-did-to-my-triglycerides-and-alcohol-to-my-liver-new-lipid-panel-and-alt-test.html ). Is that irrelevant? If so, why? Are you predicting chronic illness for him and folks like him? That it's just going to take a while to show up?

    He doesn't have the body composition of Martin Berkhan, say, but he's strong and fit and capable apparently. But because his temperatures are low, he's hypothyroid and less healthy than the folks pounding cake and candy?

    I'm trying to get a sense here, man. Really- this has been incongruent for me for a while, and the recent boostering of short-term testimonials (which I previously wrote off on your behalf when posted by folks like Sisson and Nikolay) makes me wonder why I should trust your endorsements and not theirs, especially when theirs come with the sorts of changes in body composition that are commonly, and in my mind, associated with improved health. Even if the catecholamine honeymoon stuff is real, I can see that some people are able to successfully transition to eating adequate carbohydrate amounts after losing fat by low-carbing.

    And again, I don't think long term uninterrupted carbohydrate restriction is a goal or healthy necessarily, but I find it hard to argue that the changes these 'real results' folks undergo are actually a liability across the board, which is the impression I get that you have of them.

    Reply
  85. Marcel – I got the tongue thrush thing from taking antibiotics for two weeks. That was almost two months ago. Weirdly, it was when I was eating lots of raw honey and fruit that it went away.

    Reply
  86. Thanks for that information Ela and Stacey. The more feedback, the clearer the picture becomes. Thanks!

    Reply
  87. @Rob A.

    for a counter example to your point, Jimmy Moore. In my opinion, he shows that there is something more going on that low-carb is missing, something I feel Matt hits upon.

    Not saying some people can't get positive results from it, just saying there are people it does not work for. There is something else we need to deal with in order to include an even braoder range of people, therefor bringing us closer to the source of the problem, and Matt's diet seems to do just that.

    -Anonymous

    Reply
  88. Jimmy Moore and ppl like him don't even eat real food half the time and do things like starve themselves for days

    Reply
  89. Matt,

    "I think the ultimate way to increase the thrush on your tongue is to have a lot of milk and fruit together."

    Why? Could you explain this? I don't understand why it is a bad thing to combine milk and fruit?

    Reply
  90. @kirk

    …as a last ditch move, yes. at least to the best of my understandin of his situation.

    -Anonymous

    Reply
  91. myleftarmpit,
    Apparently 30 minutes seem to be enough to prevent the bloating that I got from combining fruit/juice and potatoes. Eating honey and potatoes together resultet in even worse stomach ache. I tried the latter since, according to a study, starch and honey show a synergistic effect in their antifungal properties: http://www.scielo.br/pdf/bjm/v39n1/a10v39n1.pdf

    Mike Jones,
    English being my third language I might appear a little inept at times. But my hands are really small ;)

    puddleduck,
    I have noticed the same. Eating fresh fruit greatly diminishs the thrush on my tongue, even though I have no explanation for this phenomenon. Honey on the other hand is known for it's antibacterial properties. Unfortunately I have no idea on how to incorporate it in my diet since it seems to cause bloating when eating along with starch.

    greetings
    Marcel

    Reply
  92. Marcel,
    Just out of curiosity, what fruits are you eating?

    Reply
  93. what are some of the "convenience" foods you have found to be beneficial Matt? Thanks.

    Reply
  94. Hey Rob, if you keep giving Matt hell, he might take back his offer to cater our wedding — he said for FREE! lol! :-)

    Reply
  95. kirk said…

    "Jimmy Moore and ppl like him don't even eat real food half the time and do things like starve themselves for days."

    I was thinking same thing. He is a really bad counter-example. He consumes a shit ton of diet soda/bevs, artificial sweeteners, and artificial foods. And he's tried many a "last ditch effort" — like the eggsperiment. Anyway, he is a much better example of a unhealthy/overweight person who DOES eat 'breakfast' and processed crap.

    I'm sure Rob will serve up a much better masturdebate than me on that bad example. But that's my 2 bits, FWIW :-)

    Hey speaking of masturdebating, that would be cool (hot!) if Matt and Rob did a friendly constructive debate. It would make for a great blogpost or something… I'm just sayin :-)

    Reply
  96. Anonymous,

    Good point, and that's so sad. I definitely see how long term, uninterrupted it could be problematic. Nora Gedgaudes is another person who I think could run into trouble because of the stridency of her dietary taboos.

    What I'm thinking of, though, are people like Richard or Melissa McEwen who are definitely not anti carb, and still are open to low carb at least as a strategy. I mean, a few months ago, Matt was supportive of folks like Joel Marion who cycle carbs strategically and wisely.

    Again, I agree that dietary freedom and intuitive eating is the goal- I just ahve a hard time looking at people who low carb, lose fat, build muscle, feel better, enhance their energy and performance, and telling them they're just deluding themselves, while at the same time propping up people who are eating junk food and feeliong good after a few days or weeks of it.

    I just want some acknowledgement that there can be lots of ways to enhance health beyond what Matt talks about now.

    In fairness, he does aim posts like the Sisson one at people who are running into trouble on the Primal Blueprint, and has mentioend that folks doing IF or whatever are good to go for it, but with the caveat that they shoudl heed negative feedback and not becoming blinded. And that's what I'm asking for I guess. But the sense I get is he discourages those strategies in favor of RRARF or some varient thereof, and only begrudgingly concedes that low carb or IF or whatever could work for some people. Why begrudgingly, I ask? Why not put that in the toolbox of strategies to employ as it seems appropriate, and make allies across lines, rather than implying that everythign else is really doomed to failure but RRARF?

    Good point though about Jimmy Moore and folks embedded in LC like that.

    Reply
  97. Good point AS and Kirk, too- Jimmy does seem to eat processed low carb foods, which I think would certainly impact his health.

    And AS- I know, I gotta back off a little. Hope he doesn't get too pissed at me. Certainly looking forwrad that that high class catering.

    As for debate- I don't know I could go toe to toe with Matt. I think I'm just good at calling him on the mis-steps I think he makes. He still is a premier researcher, and great at condensing and translating his findings into a usually coherent narrative that's comprehensible and eays to wrap my head around. So yeah, Matt- still gots love for ya.

    And my lady, of course :-)

    Reply
  98. Check Dr. Davis (heartscanblog) last post, entitled:

    "Real Men Dont eat Carbs"

    I think this is just embarrasing, almost jokelike. Can´t understand how people can take this man seriously.

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  99. Rob, fair enough, and very smoothly done, I might add! Very impressive gracious bow out in favor of Matt, on the debate front. I too, as you know, feel that Matt has lots to offer and teach us in his health research pursuits and writings. And, you also know, that I feel he is sincere in his mission to use his discoveries to truly help people. But, yes I also 'think' he mis-steps sometimes – as we all do at times :-)

    And you are really great at calling him (and anyone) on his (apparent) inconsistencies :-) But I also know that you do it to demand a 'consistent' level of excellence that we've come to expect from Matt — of his own doing. And I know that you realize (and even hope) that he may very well be able to offer a perfectly reasonable explanation, counter-argument, or fill in the gaps (as he often has in the past). So, I for one, say don't stop challenging him (or anyone) on his inconsistencies — challenges that any good "independent health researcher/writer" worth his salt can rise up to meet — whether it's to offer reasonable further explanation for some or humbly concede to and heed others. Either way, it's valuable win-win learning and growth for all :-)

    Having said that, I would love to see Matt interact (participate in some honest MASTERdebating) in the comments like he used to. I agree that that's what once made his blog great — the best! That's just my opinion, for whatever it's worth :-) But I still gots lots of love and admiration for Matt too.

    And, of course, a shit ton of both for my man — of course :-)

    Reply
  100. AS wrote: "But have we established yet which way is correct, with or without the hyphen? Also, anyone know if "craploads" should be hyphenated?"

    Okay, I've reevaluated this and realized shit ton is not a compound adjective. If it were, we would say "a shit-ton food," but we say instead, "a shit ton of food." We are, in essence, eating a "shit ton," not food.

    Shit ton is therefore a noun. (One could say shit is an adjective modifying ton, but I don't think that really flies.) Should it be compounded, resulting in "shitton"? Since shitton makes no sense, we could keep it as two separate words or hyphenate it.

    Now onto crap load. Same rules apply. However, crapload is easily compounded with no confusion, so I believe crapload can be compounded or not. But a hyphen would not be needed since compounding them is clear.

    Thoughts, anyone?

    Reply
  101. You can call out Matt anytime for his inconsistencies, but if he doesn't reply, what's the point?

    I really enjoy the debates that take place here, but without Matt's input, the comments just sort of fizzle out.

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  102. Advice from the online diet guru:

    Disciple1: "Diet guru, I have been using your dietary rules for 3 weeks and I feel GREAT!"
    Guru: "That is because your metabolism and adrenals are healing from your stint with diet xyz from that other guru, which was literally killing you"

    Disciple2: "Diet guru, I have been using your dietary rules for 3 weeks and I feel like SHIT!
    Guru: "That is because you are DETOXING, you will feel terrible for x amount of time and may even gain lots of weight, but stick with it and you shall be rewarded with perfect health!

    Disciple3: "Diet guru, I have been following the dietary rules of that other guru for 3 weeks and I feel GREAT!
    Guru: "Well, you are feeling great NOW, but it is just the well known '"catecholamine honeymoon", & after a certain period of time you will feel like SHIT and your health will be worse than ever. You are better off following MY magical diet rules!

    Disciple4: "Diet guru, I have been following the dietary rules of that other guru for 3 weeks and I feel like SHIT!
    Guru: "That is because that other guru is a freaking idiot, only I know the true secret of health."

    MORAL OF STORY:
    Thou shalt not worship diet gurus (or any other type of guru….)

    Seriously, Matt is just a guy who likes to research health, & try experiments on himself, and while he is (not admirably) rather dogmatic when he latches onto his latest simplistic idea (fructose is from the devil!), he is (admirably) open to rejecting those ideas later (I was wrong! Fructose is godlike and shall be worshipped!).

    Anyhow, my point is, the thing I find astounding is people who are willing to blindly follow ANY diet guru or website's suggestions. We are ALL DIFFERENT! Genetics and epigenetics and a whole host of factors make this a very complex problem and there is NO ONE ANSWER. So, sift through all the advice, listen to your body, and find what works for you.

    I do agree that Jimmy Moore is an orthorexic mess, all those disgusting fake quest bars & such are NOT REAL FOOD. (nor, btw, are twizzlers, but Matt was just windin' people up with that one), BUT, RRARRF (or whatever the hell the acronym is) would be a disaster for him – as someone who was grossly obese for much of his life, he most likely has many many more fat cells (obesity pre-puberty or gross obesity in adult life increases fat cell number) than a normal adult male, & those little cells are just dying for food, food, food to fill 'em up. On RAARRF he would most likely gain back 200 lbs or whatever it was he started at. For him to be thin, no amount of metabolism tweaking is going to work, he has to have restrictions & the low carb gimmick is the one he chooses for calorie restriction. He has lost alot of weight from his all time high, but is at a plateau right now, maybe his body doesn't want to be any thinner. In addition, he is really weird and goofy looking anyway, it is not like he is going to look like some kind of Adonis even if he lost another 100lbs, so who is he trying to impress? If he feels healthy now, why not just stick with where he's at for a while? (OK, that was just mean, I admit it).

    Rant done.

    Okay, one more thing:
    I stopped coming here when matt was in his "fructose is evil" phase (i always thought that was dumb), & because i got tired of Chief bragging about his sexual prowess and conquests & flirting with the ladies (yawn), but lo and behold! I came back here because I was bored a few weeks ago, & fructose is good now! Not only good, but GREAT! Maybe if i go away for another year & come back PUFA will be "legal" then, and I will be encouraged to gorge on french fries night and day! I love french fries!

    ok, one more thing: Kitavans! Inuit! Masai! Tuvans! (ok, I do not know what Tuvans eat, but they do that cool throat singing thing, google if if you don't know what it is…..)

    Reply
  103. My favorite part about the article Jacob posted was that their study group was comprised of PIMA indians….

    PIMA PIMA PIMA!!!!!!

    hahahahaha!!!!

    too bad they did not use Masai as a control group. that would really send Matt over the edge.

    (on other hand, the hypothesis was interesting, & warrants discussion. basically throws the whole rraarrrfff thing out the freaking window, tho)

    Reply
  104. Joanne, nicely done! I don't care how a person spells it or uses it (noun/adj), I like the way it sounds either way lol!

    And very good point about the comments. Yep, it's fizzle-less without his input :-)

    Merp, totally loved the online diet guru dialog lol! Great comments and welcome back! Hope you stick around :-)

    Reply
  105. Everyone, didn't Matt recently move to Florida and spends a lot of time on the beach or something?

    I had a recent experience similar to the person/family featured in this post, and I believe a HUGE part of it is ENVIRONMENT. Which everyone seems to mostly overlook.

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  106. Merp,
    You have done an excellent job explaining what is going on here. I hope all of the people here stuck in this type of thinking will understand it.

    I have been thinking the same thing on the French fries and PUFAs. I think they will be promoted as next 180 superfood. My prediction is that they will start feeling a little sluggish and decide they need to get that chatecholamine high goin again. So low carb will be cool again, but high PUFA fries will be allowed as long as they are the only source of carbs.

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  107. Jacob,that is a great find.'thank you for posting that study.

    All those who are obsessed with their temperatures and metabolic rate, really need to read that study. I would love to hear some responses.

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  108. Michael,

    Good point- I also wonder how much of a role his recent fruit pounding success can be attributed to his environment. I think that this reason, among many, is why it's a great idea to eat seasonally and predominantly from foods locally grown. That's anotehr characteristic of all the groups people like Price and McCarrison looked at- they ate quality, nutritionally rich food grown and consumed locally, for teh most part.

    Matt says this is like prison sex (meaning good enough if that's all you got, but not actually desirable if other choices abound), but I don't buy it. Partly for the reason mentioned above (too much choice can actually be distressing), partly because food grown locally and fresh harvested for a local market tends to be nutritioonally superior, and partly because I tend to believe our disconnection from place is not separable from our health ails.

    Reply
  109. JT,
    That's not even a full paper. How do you want to draw any conclusions fom that? Many studies found no inverse correlation between a high metabolic rate and longevity. And what about all the studies which show that a high metabolism increases testosterone, progesterone, fertility, lean body mass etc.?

    Every sane person that is aware of his metabolic rate will tell you that a high metabolism (high temp. and pulse rate) comes along with vitality, good sleep, good body composition, a high sex drive, nice skin and so on and so on. Ever heard of Broda Barnes?

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  110. Jannis,
    You need to read some of my posts from a few years ago. I was on the broda barnes high temperature band wagon before you had even heard about it. And No, high temp does not necessarily correlate with great health and all those things you listed. I have noted my exact opposite experience of what you report.

    Don't misunderstand, I'm not saying this study proves a high metabolism is unhealthy. I don't think anyone knows if having it a little higher or lower is best. This study just helps people quit obsessing over the temperature dogma like it is a certain fact. But, it may be true.

    Why don't you follow Broda Barnes program if you are certain about his work? He promoted a lower carb diet with medication, not high sugar overfeeding.

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  111. Because Broda Barnes dietary advices are not helpfull and don't contribute to a high metabolic rate.
    But he and his patients took a lot of thyroid, which I think is good enough.
    I agree with you that a high temperature isn't everything. You can have 98.6 and still be hypothyroid. But if you have all the signs of a high metabolism, you will probably feel awesome.

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  112. That's also just a summary.

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  113. high PUFA food will probably not get a free out of jail card any time soon on this blog, these nasty 'inflammatory' double bonds are waaayyy to frightening. they totally fuck you up man!! zippin liquid sugar is acceptable as long as you're keeping these free radical-producing PUfats down to the absolute bottom. it's funny how you all just moving in circles. the entire universe starts to like a friggin' box of droste cacao powder (haha maybe it is). Once upon a time Matt could count the grams(!!) of fructose he ingested per week on one hand(!!). now he's thirsty and in need for sommore juice. how many hands do you need to count your grams now Matt?? Not comin' down at him like a ton of bricks though, I have to say I like his anti-diet crusade. but maybe, just maybe keeping in touch with a little science here and there isn't a crime either… dunno'. this is a ground on which you guys can actually debate this matter, letting people decide what to eat out of pure convenience is secondary.

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  114. Jannis, its the abstract, with links to the full article if you have access. If not, you may be able to get the full version at a library. I guess being at a major University, I am spoiled by having access to all these journals….

    anyhow, here is another article from 2008 addressing this topic, (from bibliography of that paper):

    Ruggiero C, Metter EJ, Melenovsky V, Cherubini A, Najjar SS, Ble A, Senin U, Longo DL, Ferrucci L 2008 High basal metabolic rate is a risk factor for mortality: the Baltimore Longitudinal Study of Ag- ing. J Gerontol A Biol Sci Med Sci 63:698 –706

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  115. Jenny,

    How are you mixing your gelatin and juice? I've tried and all of the gelatin seems to sink to the bottom and never mix with the juice.

    I soften the gelatin by putting 1/2 teaspoon in 8 ounces of juice stir it and let it sit for a while. The juice should start to thicken, almost like proto-jello.

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  116. This study makes the same mistake they all make. Metabolic rate is the number of calories you burn per day. The more you weigh, the more total calories you burn. Thus, the fatter you are and the higher total body weight you have, the higher your metabolism. Hell yes that will make you die faster.

    But it is misleading, because those who weigh less have a higher metabolic rate per unit of lean body mass than a heavier person with a higher total metabolic rate.

    Just look at big dogs. Who eats more, a Saint Bernard or a Shitzu? The Saint Bernard. Higher metabolic rate? Hell no, far lower metabolic rate. The small dog is full of energy, has a higher heart rate and body temperature, has far fewer health problems than the big dog, and lives far longer.

    In reality, when you increase metabolic rate per unit of lean body mass, you have an increase in several hormones with extraordinarily well-known anti-aging properties – testosterone, progesterone, DHEA, and so forth.

    You want to raise your mitochondrial activity and body temperature. You do not want to "raise your metabolism."

    Jimmy Moore-

    He would not gain much weight, if any, on RRARF. Many of his followers have come here, reintroduced carbs and increased calorie consumption, and had stalled weight loss continue.

    Rob-

    I had positive real world results on a low-carb diet. So good, in fact, that I thought I knew everything, created a site and business called 180DegreeHealth, and wrote my first ebook on the virtues of a high-fat diet. More muscle, less fat, more energy, better mood, clearer skin, disappearance of asthma. Wowie!!! The shizzy nizzy!!!

    But unfortunately health is not that simple. I do not profess to know all the answers. I do want to prevent people from getting mega boners over some diet like I did and get swept away in a happily-ever-after to age 150 fantasy.

    No one has EVER proven that a change in diet can increase longevity, lead to permanent weight loss, etc. EVER! That is what the science shows. The "grand prix" of nutritional studies showed that the single most protective of all foods was white rice. There are many surprises out there, and endless contradictions. I prefer to play the role of the skeptic.

    I also am a general fan of Nikoley's approach and current diet. He's got it right. And if low-carb has a role to play, it is indeed stripping the weight off quickly in a one-shot deal before getting on a normal diet once again. But I'm afraid, statistically-speaking, this is a pipe dream. It just doesn't work out that way very often.

    Having said that, adrenaline-induced effects are very obvious. I know them like the back of my hand. I can induce negative adrenaline-related symptoms within a day by eating lots of protein by itself and nothing else. Chest pains, horrendous body odor, cold hands and feet, aggressive mood – these are all the dead ends I ran into by staying on a low-carb diet for too long.

    Reply
  117. How many craploads in a shit ton? Now that's funny.

    Rob and AS-

    I'm still going to cater your wedding. I'm going to pump a bunch of sugar into the food so that you guys actually have the testosterone and progesterone to get rowdy and reproduce successfully.

    Johnny Lawrence –

    Ah ha! You got pineappled eh? I don't go anywhere near fresh pineapple. I'd rather try to eat the blade of a lawnmower. Mouth will be sore for 2 days after eaitng a pineapple. It could very well be because of the bromelain, which, in canned pineapple juice, is deactivated due to heating the heat-sensitive enzymes (come on, don't you guys read raw propaganda?).

    Milk and OJ combo-

    I don't know, but eating lots of dairy and fruit together doesn't treat me well. Maybe I'll overcome this with time. My tongue has undergone a dramatic clearing over the past two months, with bright vibrant color restored (especially after some Twizzlers or red gummi bears, haha).

    When I was on a high-fruit diet in Hawaii 5 years ago an acupuncturist told me that I was the only person she'd ever seen with a "perfect tongue." I took this a good sign to eat a low-carb, high-fat diet until it got white and fuzzy and my breath stank. Good call Stone. Good call.

    Anyway, I'm back into it. I do think it's appropriate for me and my hard-to-deal with, hyperinflammatory programming that I've had since I was brought into this world on soy formula. Frequent feedings on sugars, mostly juices, seems to be the ultimate formula for keeping my stress hormones at bay, and inflammatory symptoms absent (leg pain, chest pain, asthma, allergies, etc).

    But now I'm doing the non-catabolic version, avoiding the lame starvation fasts I did back then, vegetarianism, catabolic exercise, eating raw crucifers by the pound, and so on.

    Reply
  118. Matt said:
    "This study makes the same mistake they all make. Metabolic rate is the number of calories you burn per day. The more you weigh, the more total calories you burn. Thus, the fatter you are and the higher total body weight you have, the higher your metabolism. Hell yes that will make you die faster."

    Did you even bother to read the article? They adjusted for a number of factors, including body weight:

    "Age, gender, and body weight were used as covariates in the models. Because the number of events was small, there is potential for overfitting the models. Therefore, body weight served as a proxy for fat mass (FM) and fat-free mass (FFM) to reduce the number of covariates."

    Not saying I am 100% sold on it. BUT, it is worth looking at, in my view

    Sorry, but Jimmy Moore has food issues and a history of extreme obesity, & you bet he would gain a shit-ton of weight if he did the high everything diet, despite anecdotal evidence from your followers to the contrary – i have read plenty of posts on this blog from followers who feel better after HED, but are wondering how they can get rid of the excess weight they gained. It works for some, but certainly not for all.

    Reply
  119. Matt Stone said…

    "Rob and AS-

    I'm still going to cater your wedding. I'm going to pump a bunch of sugar into the food so that you guys actually have the testosterone and progesterone to get rowdy and reproduce successfully."

    Awesome! Thanks, Matt!! And I got no beef with sugar, so feel free to pump it into the food by the craploads, shit tons, whatever you like. Although, I can't speak for Rob on this (yet!), but no sugar needed for me to get rowdy! :-)

    Matt, in all sincerity, thanks! And I know that you know, that I know, that you know, what for :-)

    Now I'm off to read your new blogpost!

    Reply
  120. Ela and Real Will – I am VERY concerned about your use of gluten, even though you and yours have celiac disease! I am celiac myself and the danger from celiac disease does not come from temporary gastrointestinal reactions. If that's all it was, nobody would have to worry!

    The problem is that celiac is an AUTOIMMUNE disease, so if you are a celiac that eats gluten (whether occasionally or regularly) you will run into the following issues:

    1) Malabsorption of nutrients. Every time you ingest gluten your body has an autoimmune reaction and starts attacking your villi. This even happens with one crumb. Yes one crumb. Every time the villi are attacked, you are doing serious and sometimes irreversible damage to your body. You may end up with refractory celiac disease: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/10889175

    2) If you are celiac and keep ingesting gluten, your body goes into a hyperinflammatory state and starts attacking other glands and organs. This is why there is a massive links between gluten and hypothyroidism. In fact, the molecular structure of gluten is so similar to the thyroid gland that the body often gets confused and starts attacking the thyroid gland as well.

    3) The long tem malabsorption of mutants can lead to bone loss.

    4) If you keep eating gluten, you run a very high risk of getting cancer. I have a friend who is a doctor and while she was in training she did the gastroentology rounds. She said she always found it so sad when celiacs came back after 10 years of non compliance and ended up with a diagnosis of cancer. Seriously. If you are celiac and you eat gluten you have a very higher ask of getting cancer.

    I'm sure I’ll come off as holier than thou here, but honestly guys do yourselves a favour and do some reading on the very real and serious consequences of eating gluten when you are celiac. Pubmed has tons of studies and there are lots of books and videos on the subject. I like this video also: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AxBZ5E8Ilf8&feature=related.

    Plus, there are soooooooooooo many gluten free substitutes around nowadays; nobody needs to eat gluten. I eat delicious gluten free bread every day and GF pasta sometimes too. If I so desired, there are also gorgeous GF cookies and cakes available in every supermarket.

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  121. AS, you wrote:

    'Awesome! Thanks, Matt!! And I got no beef with sugar, so feel free to pump it into the food by the craploads, shit tons, whatever you like. Although, I can't speak for Rob on this (yet!), but no sugar needed for me to get rowdy! :-)'

    Yes- my kinda lady! How indeed, my dear, are we to wait?

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  122. Hey Matt,

    No doubt that LC can be dangerous. And shit, I don't want to do it again, so I'm not just trying to get your seal of approval for my pet diet.

    I think my point is to create bridges though- lots of people, like me, are paleo-sympathetic, drawn into LC, and could use your perspective, and I guess I see it as a 'get more flies with honey than vinegar' thing. That's what I think folks like Melissa and Nikolay do well- no one doing low carb goes to their sites and sees that they're not, and thinks- 'fuck them, who are you to say I don't look, feel, perform better and that I'm actually doing it wrong? That this success I'm experiencing is just another of my screw-ups?'

    I think there's a way to be very clear about possible long term dangers of low carb or IF or whatever, and at the same time create space for people who seem to do well with that. That would enhance your credibility so you didn't sound like Merp's guru #3 above, and for others who get your stuff, and want to experiment, folks wouldn't have to choose sides at the outset.

    And I never actually read old Bobby A, but didn't he advise a gradual increase in carbs and getting the hell out of ketosis after a bit of LCing to trigger that one-off fat loss? Maybe it doesn't happen that way, but like the USDA food recommendations, the fact that folks do it differently doesn't mean the recommendations aren't sounds in principle.

    And another part of that bridge buiding I aim for is to have you adress some of the thoughts of would-be dismissers. Like when someone says, as above- you talk shit about testimonials and effectively convince me they're meaningless, and then tout one out and expect me to believe it? You may be playing the role of LC skeptic, but without addressing points like this apparent inconsistency, the sugar/fruit skeptic can just as easily write you off and no exhcange ends up happening. And really, that's tragic in my mind, because you have a lot of good insight to share.

    When it comes down to it, I think I give you shit because I've already thrown down in your camp, such as it is, and I want it to be the best, and for everyone else to know it. :-)

    Reply
  123. lynn, thanks for your concern. Sorry I wasn't clear: I don't eat gluten now: it's been fifteen years since I quit eating it again. But there were twelve years or so when I ate it as a kid because of this weird dynamic with my dad (long story).

    The last time I ate some was by accident, and I totally regretted it.

    I do make bread and other glutenaceous things for my husband, but I wear a dust mask!
    Thanks again…
    Will's autistic son may not have actual celiac: avoiding gluten seems to help wonderfully with autism regardless.

    Reply
  124. Hi Lynn,

    Yes, Ela is right…my son does NOT have celiac. He was tested and the GI doc said that he did not have it, although he did say that it wasn't a simple diagnosis to make.

    In a last ditch effort to help his stomach pain, we pulled the gluten out of his diet and it helped immensely. From the input here, I don't think that we will have a problem allowing him to have one cookie a week when we go grocery shopping (we buy him gluten-free bread, pizza, cookies, pancake/waffle mix, etc. for the rest of the time). I think that will help to maintain his sanity, LOL!

    He has other allergies so we can't just give him any gluten-free stuff. He is also allergic to dairy protein, soy protein, all barley and it's derivatives (malt, maltodextrin, modified food starch, etc.), etc. Feeding him is TOUGH.

    Thanks for your feedback.

    Reply
  125. The Real Will – Celiac disease is notoriously difficult to diagnose via serology. His massive symptom improvement off the stuff suggests to me that it is a significant problem for him though. Can you afford enterolab testing to answer the celiac question once and for all?

    If he has the celiac genes, malabsorption and antibodies, then you will know he is in fact celiac and not gluten sensitive.

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  126. Regarding ETF, I'm going to Italy for a week next week and am not planning on bringing my orthorexia with me. I'm looking forward to the Seth Roberts Experience of eating *whatever* and not gaining weight… my poor body has been through enough in the last 6 months. I'm going to feed it wine, tiramisu and maybe even some pizza. ETF!

    Reply
  127. Hi Lynn, I'm not familiar with enterolab testing but he had an endoscopy, barium swallow, biopsies, bloodwork, etc. So I can't say if that testing was done or not, but it may have been. His GI said that he was tested for celiac but that he didn't meet all the criteria (but he did meet some of them).

    Reply
  128. Rob A. said…
    "When it comes down to it, I think I give you shit because I've already thrown down in your camp, such as it is, and I want it to be the best, and for everyone else to know it."

    I echo that, Matt. Best line in that post, Rob :-)

    I liked this part too…
    "And another part of that bridge buiding I aim for is to have you adress some of the thoughts of would-be dismissers. Like when someone says, as above- you talk shit about testimonials and effectively convince me they're meaningless, and then tout one out and expect me to believe it? You may be playing the role of LC skeptic, but without addressing points like this apparent inconsistency, the sugar/fruit skeptic can just as easily write you off and no exhcange ends up happening. And really, that's tragic in my mind, because you have a lot of good insight to share."

    Low-carb and high-sugar only being 2 examples, of course. And I don't even have a final opinion on them, or intermittent fasting, or whatever. I remain skeptical–pending further info, yet open-minded, about it all…
    Thanks to Matt, Rob, and the rest of us nerds & nuts here in the 180 clubhouse :-)

    Reply
  129. Enterolab is a private lab that does stool testing. It is a very specialised form of testing and can only be performed by enterolab. No other lab in the world analyses the stool for celiac disease in this way. Other labs offer gene testing however. I would ask your GI if your son had an enterolab and/or a celiac gene test.

    The conventional celiac testing misses a massive amount of celiacs, so if you can afford it, I’d get enterolab testing done. You don’t need a doctor to order it; you can order it yourself.

    Reply
  130. i did enterolab testing. knowing i have the gene and and the malabsorption and the antibodies is what keeps me from having the occasional pizza or birthday cake. as of now there isn't a cure for autoimmune, so I know I can't manage or avoid the consequences by controlling dosing like I can with dairy and other things. i see it this way – how much of my life am i willing to give up for cake? besides, I learned to cook and I hardly ever miss it, 'cept for bread sometimes. I discovered a world of delicious whole foods, thanks to gluten intolerance.

    btw, just want to say that after mostly LC for a couple of years, and becoming really ill and hyperallergic, I did RRARF starting in january. finally have stopped feeling the need to eat like i was starving to death, and now hoping my extra 8 or so pounds will start to come off. i definitely feel like there is a threshold for cheating for me, but it is mediated by stress. my plan is to learn how to love the new 140 lb me if it doesn't come off by itself, and focus on living. there's a sort of zen to matt's insanity if you think about it. first you think he's crackers, you think he's a genius. then you think he's an A hole, then you give up and listen to your own bod – AKA, enlightenment!

    for what it's worth, i think some folks here would benefit more from meditation than dietary changes. chronic stress is nasty. just say no to diet worry!

    relax and be well!

    peace out.

    Reply
  131. How do you get an obese child to lose weight?!! I have a child who eats to appetite (no food restrictions or allergies) what seems like a normal amount of food, especially compared to what his ultra-lean brother eats. He is active several hours each day (trampoline, bike riding, swimming, etc) yet keeps getting bigger and bigger… and bigger. The ped wants him to start a low-fat, calorie-controlled diet but I’m afraid it will lower his temps and cause an eating disorder. WHAT to do? He is 4’10/140lb (6″ taller and 80 lb heavier than a typical 8 yr old) and we’re to the point that I’m getting scared for him. I also have a 6-foot tall, 230lb 14yr old who put on 60 lbs this year alone…. What am I doing wrong???

    Reply
    • Well I definitely don’t think you are doing anything wrong. This is a sign of the times more than anything. I would love to know what their body temperatures are, s well as yours. And then we would have to piece through it to figure out the best approach for bringing it to a halt. It’s not just a matter of “here, eat this, don’t eat that.” That is never simple enough, and often leads to periods of weight loss puncuated by binges and weight regain. Let’s work on this some and see if we can figure it out.

      Reply

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