Weight Fixation: "Waist" of Time

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“The cruel irony is that although we become totally obsessed with the daily measures of how ‘good’ or ‘bad’ we are (refused dessert = good; didn’t have time to go to the gym = bad), there is no finish line.  This weight preoccupation will never lead us anywhere.  It is a maniacal maze that always spits you out at the same point it sucked you up:  wanting.  We keep chasing after perfection as if it is an achievable goal, when really it is the most grand and painful of all mirages.” “Spontaneity is crucial to health.  Listening to when your body is hungry, and for what, is a mindful act anathema to most young women.  In fact, the majority of those I interviewed for this book don’t even know how to identify when they are hungry or when they are full.  They have so intellectualized the rights and wrongs of feeding themselves that they can’t feel a damn thing.”

-Courtney Martin; Perfect Girls, Starving Daughters: The Frightening New Normalcy of Hating Your Body

It made a huge impression on me when I first heard Human Behavior expert John Demartini say that you must plant flowers in the garden of your mind or you will be “forever pulling weeds.” Although the guy has a lot of cutesy sayings that fall somewhere in between Cheddar and Provolone, there is no doubt that many of his sayings, like this one, are very well thought out and meaningful.

This saying in particular means that you must fill your life and your mind with what is important to you, and what you are passionate about doing/experiencing/exploring or distractions and annoyances will end up filling your mind and your life – just like a garden with nothing planted in it will quickly be overrun with the stuff you don’t want in your garden. When I first heard this, and the truth of it sank in, it was only a matter of weeks before I purchased 30 health and nutrition books online and started this blog. I’ve been dedicated to filling up as much of my life and mind with what I find to be the most interesting subject on earth ever since. For no other reason than because I really love and enjoy it.

What saddens me is thinking about all our culture’s wasted time and head space that gets wrapped up in “what am I going to eat today” and “gosh life would be better if I lost 20 pounds.” To me, this neurotic and obsessive behavior (that first struck me at around age 14) has become one of the primary diseases of modern humans, no doubt a direct result of being bombarded with a barrage of marketing messages that are totally unrealistic (and of course cloaking serious health problems and eating disorders – because you can’t see those in a picture or commercial) and the yardstsicks of self worth that are generated based on that.

But after researching stress in greater detail, it’s become apparent to me that this fixation on weight, body image, diet, and so forth is a much greater health liability than any known junk food. I also wouldn’t disagree with Shawn Talbott, author of The Cortisol Connection, who states that stressing out about your diet too much is a leading cause of excessive cortisol production. It’s probably an even more prevalent problem than eating a truly crappy diet, and is a problem that humans have never immersed themselves in to such a degree until now.

But it gives me great joy to bring my research full circle. In fact, I applied for an LLC name in Hawaii in 2005 called “The Body Trust.” It was based in part on an epiphany I had while starving myself out in the Wilderness, which was the climax of my war against myself to achieve superhuman fitness, leanness, toughness, and self-sufficiency. The name was turned down because the word Trust is apparently off-limits, so I went back to the drawing board and came up with Sacred Self instead – the original name of this blog.

Cheesy I know, and Woo-Woo up to Wazoo, but the meaning behind it was truly revolutionary. My main sermon was to form a pact with yourself, make a conscious effort to avoid feelings of guilt, shame, and remorse in all things in life but most importantly your exercise and food choices (I can still vividly remember how focused I was on enjoying a piece of chocolate cake for the first time instead of beating myself up over it and quickly promising to run 47 miles on my hands the next day), and to fully trust and obey cues for hunger and desires for physical activity.

That’s where this all began, and I even published a few articles in a New Agey publication about self-judgment and an article entitled, “How Much Do Your Beliefs Weigh?” which featured my strong belief that negative self-talk and the binge and repent mindset were the root of excess body fat storage.

All that aside, the big question is how do we overcome our neurotic fixations on body image and our diet, in the name of better health – and more importantly, a better and more empowered and fulfilling life – filled “ful” of flowers and not weeds?

First, we must break down some of the myths surrounding leanness. We clearly have a totally delusional infatuation with it.

Why is leanness attractive? Leanness is attractive because it is more scarce. Scarcity is what gives all things value. At times in history, and in many countries still today like Mauritania which is the most extreme, it was much harder to be big, strong, and full-bodied than it was to have a 6-pack. Being voluptuous was more attractive, not being lean. In some cultures it’s hot to put a big plate inside your bottom lip or get your face really scarred up. Beauty is mostly a subjective matter and is based almost purely on being rare and difficult to obtain – just like diamonds, gold, silver, art, boutique wines, etc.

Shaved (no pun intended) down to its core, attraction is all about VALUE. What makes a person attractive is based on how valuable they are to the prospective “buyer.” The two most common virtues that are valued in today’s society are wealth (and the status and sphere of influence that accompanies it) and physical beauty (which again, is mostly subjective). For mutual attraction to emerge between two people, there has to be a state of value equality between two people… and equal exchange. When the exchange is equal, the two people have matching self-confidence (self-worth, the prime determinant of your attractiveness), and they feel equally lucky to be in the relationship because each possesses something that the other values.

When there is a power shift however, like one person getting a huge promotion or say, being in the National spotlight for overcoming testicular cancer and going on to win a worldwide athletic competition that inspires a billion people, the balance is totally thrown out of whack. When this happens a whole set of instinctual behaviors emerge that try to achieve balance once more. The lesser person in the relationship will often be quite irrational in trying to bring the other down to his or/her level (via resentment, infidelity, depression, alcoholism, abusive and/or combative behavior) or bring himself or herself up in value (by getting leaner, trying to seduce another, more powerful person, plastic surgery, or whatever desperate measures can be conjured up).

I bring this all up because, in today’s day and age, one thing you don’t want to use to attract another person is physical beauty. Physical beauty, unlike most other qualities that can have value and therefore be attractive to someone else, is a DEPRECIATING ASSET. I semi grew up in Aspen, CO for the love of Pete. What I’m about to say is not a stereotype, but a fundamental law of interpersonal relationships…

The more attractive you are based on society’s definition, the higher your probability of attracting people more fixated on physical appearance and less fixated on personality characteristics. Most people probably have a percentage. Some are 10% physically attracted, 90% attracted to other values – some are 90% -10% in the other direction.

And I’m telling you, the more attractive you are, the more likely you are to attract someone whose attraction is more heavily weighted on physical appearance.

In Aspen, the typical scenario goes one of two ways…

Wealthy young man marries hot young woman. This is a common exchange because these are the two most prized “scarce” attributes in modern society. Her accessory is the large diamond she gets out of the exchange and the increasing social status. His accessory is the woman herself and his personal feeling of self-confidence as every man obsessed with physical appearance (there are many) wishes they could be him. Both enter into the top tier in the pecking order for their respective genders (and yes, men and women’s pursuit of stupid leanness is more in competition with people of their own sex for power and thus increased self-worth, not necessarily because it is what the opposite sex finds attractive – but again, self-worth is the overall prime determinant of attractiveness).

Man gets increasingly wealthy. Hot woman becomes increasingly less hot. Woman goes crazy dieting and getting plastic surgery and blowing enormous amounts of money on things that make her feel more attractive and confident (jewelry, botox, designer clothes) trying to maintain equality. Both stop getting along and start becoming unfaithful. It is a mess. Inequality of self-worth cannot exist in a healthy relationship.

Or the man of course just cashes out and seeks out a younger, hotter piece of ass that equalizes his ever-growing self-worth.

You may not see this play out much where you live, but it has taken over places like Aspen and parts of So Cal and South Florida with jaw-dropping consistency. It’s probably no coincidence that Lance moved to Aspen where he can bar tender bartenders.

I bring this all up because being attractive is just as much of a curse as it is a blessing. To be fixated on it as if life will be made better by becoming more attractive is a tragic error. Rather, the more attractive you become the more you attract those who care more about physical appearance than anything else – and as the love you receive from your partner slips away with your beauty over the years, and your partner starts spending lots of time checking out other people and wishing to do a trade in for a younger model, you will get to experience what it feels like to be on the short end of the relationship stick.

So based on the grounds of relationships, or attracting a wonderful mate, there really is no grounds for thinking you need to improve your appearance. Even if physical attraction is important to you, and you want to “tie down” a hottie, you’ll be more likely to achieve it by generating an asset more valuable to a hottie – like material wealth, or being a great musician, entertainer, intellectual, etc (trust me, Orianthi could gain 50 pounds and still be more desirable than any supermodel on earth).

And let’s not forget that…

1) Dramatic attempts to become super lean and hot usually end up with you becoming more fat and ugly with more health problems and more emotional instability.

2) We are usually pretty limited in our ability to change our physical appearance more than slightly – not enough to make any real difference in the grand scheme of things

3) The opportunity cost of being perpetually fixated on your outward appearance, your diet, and your exercise regimen is a huge waste of your time here on earth, keeping you from having more fulfilling experiences in your life, and cultivating self-worth via other means that are NOT DEPRECIATING ASSETS.

4) The more obsessive you become about being more attractive, the more insecure, self-conscious, self-critical, narrow-minded, and one-dimensional you become.

5) The more you value physical appearance, the less you will be able to connect with yourself and others and appreciate people, including yourself, for the many, diverse gifts and talents one can possess.

6) Diet obsessiveness is socially crippling and alienates friends and family members

7) Restrained eating is a serious health liability (Linda Bacon claims there were 75 studies that demonstrate this as of 2008).

8) Being worried about how you look is without question the single biggest turnoff to others in the world. Trying on 36 outfits to see which one makes you look the least fat is not “cute.” In my experience, seeing beauty in someone who cannot see it themselves because of some drive for the elusive perfection, is deeply heartbreaking.

9) The universal quest to obtain and express unconditional love (for richer or for poorer, in sickness and in health, for better or for worse) gets farther out of reach the more you measure yourself up to an aesthetic ideal (which, again, is mostly subjective, and is an elusive fantasy that no one can ever obtain).

10) If you diet down below your weight set point to attract someone, you will create an artificially high standard for your looks in the other person’s eyes which will lead to a lot of disappointment in the person you attract when you gain all that back plus some.

11) There are 7 million Americans, and many more millions worldwide with a diagnosed eating disorder (and an estimated 25% chance of dying from suicide or that affliction directly and a more than 20-year reduction in life expectancy once diagnosed), and diet and body image fixation is the “gateway drug” to get there.

12) Most of the compiled epidemiological health stats gathered worldwide suggest that being slightly overweight is more healthy, and yields much greater longevity, than if you are a of a “normal” weight or are underweight compared to your fellow countrymen and women.

So I propose something totally different, and that something different is to take a lot of focus off of diet and body image (weeds) and make a conscious and continuing effort to replace those weeds with the things you want to do, experience, have, learn about, and spend your day doing – not just for your own sense of enjoyment, but to actually cultivate self-worth in areas that don’t depreciate.

Sure, health is important. We all want to feel good, be full of life, have the energy and charisma to do the things in life we want to do, and so forth. Health will always be the foundation for living a truly inspiring and fulfilling life. And our diet and lifestyle is a great backbone for all that. However, this desire to nourish oneself, eat the type of food that makes us feel good and perform at our best instead of for other reasons, and establishing a healthy relationship with our diets, our health, and our physical attributes – is something that stems from total dietary freedom, flexibility, open-mindedness, and lack of restraint of any kind.

You should never allow yourself to feel deprived of something so easily under your control as the food you eat or the amount of rest and/or activity you require to function at your best.

But most importantly, no matter who you are you must swear above all else that you will never betray yourself with self-deprecating thoughts. If you get one thing out of this post, it would be to replace those self-deprecating thoughts and body image fixation with time spent cultivating your greatest skill, fulfilling your greatest pleasure, touching the lives of others with whatever gifts you’ve been given, and begin taking a large dose of the wonder drug Fukitol for additional support with that.

In other words, to quote the movie Little Miss Sunshine, “Do what you love and f#!% the rest.” If you don’t love thinking about and playing around with your diet to see how it can change how you feel and function, then stop doing it. If you don’t love checking yourself out in the mirror 47 times per day and constantly thinking about that little pouch of fat on “x” part of your body, then stop doing it. If you don’t really love engaging in the endlessly interesting health conversation at this blog, then spend your time doing something you love more.  I won’t be offended.

In closing, I don’t think there’s anything much more inspirational than this as it pertains to us all trying to overcome the nagging, time-consuming, and disease-causing fixation on body image. Many people allow 100 pounds, 50 pounds, or even as little as 5-10 pounds to get in the way of them doing truly great things with the gifts they’ve been given (or even go on a beach vacation) – or the desire to be more attractive occupies so much time and energy and mental racket that it prevents people from developing valuable knowledge and skills – or even being so much as a good parent, a good friend, or just enjoy a slice of pizza.

Well, you can weigh over 700 pounds, barely be able to breathe, and still be widely loved, adored, respected, appreciated, and honored for the talented and passionate person that you are. IZ (shown above), perhaps the state of Hawaii’s greatest icon – and the only non-government official to have the state flag flown at half mast after death, was recently recognized by NPR as having one of the top 50 voices in the history of recorded music. 15 years after his death, his most beloved song has had well over 75,000,000 views on Youtube – and is still one of the top downloaded songs worldwide.  I can’t embed the video here due to permissions, but you can see it by clicking below.  I highly recommend watching it if you have any image insecurities – with weight or otherwise.


The question is, would his time have been better spent dieting, feeling ashamed over how he looked, constantly trying to figure out how to lose weight, looking in the mirror, hiding from cameras, counting grams of trans fats or sugar in his food, and shying away from the public eye for fear of being looked upon as a glutton by a bunch of people who don’t understand the first thing about body weight regulation? If he had a 6-pack would he have been more loved or less loved? If you get that last little bit of cellulite off your ass, and you spend most of your idle time thinking about how you look, will you inspire others and leave a mark on society so profound that someone that you’ve never met will see a random video of you on Youtube 15 years after you die and have tears of inspiration rolling down their cheeks? I kinda doubt it.

This next year, make it a resolution to first choose Inspiration, then Health (and doing what makes you feel physically good) in that order, and stop trying to lose weight. If you lose weight doing that, great. If you don’t, great. It doesn’t matter. The weight problem is the fixation on it, not the weight itself. And that can be cured in 5 seconds if you really GET what I’m saying in this post.

Besides, I still fully agree with Schwarzbein’s proclamation, “you must get healthy to lose weight, not lose weight to be healthy.”  But I think it can be taken even further, in that you must cure a weight issue to lose weight, not lose weight to cure a weight issue.  Like a wise man once said, “don’t drink to solve your problems, solve your problems before you drink.”

From Linda Bacon, author of Health at Every Size

“Only through extraordinary effort and education have I been able to free myself from my obsession with weight.” 

“As wonderful as food is, it is only one of many pleasures in my life. I am no longer waiting to lose weight before I live my life fully. Having freed up all the energy and time that I spent on dieting or obsessing about my weight or food and having let go of my shame about these, I have greater depth and fulfillment in my life, including deeper intimacy with others. I don’t think about my weight, and it stays fairly consistent. Oddly, after this new eating pattern became firmly rooted, I actually lost about thirty pounds.”  

“Fat isn’t the problem. Dieting is the problem. A society that rejects anyone whose body shape or size doesn’t match an impossible ideal is the problem. A medical establishment that equates ‘thin’ with ‘healthy’ is the problem.” 

“There is an easy way to win the war against fat and reclaim your pleasure in eating: Just give up. Yes, give up. Stop fighting.”

For more on the futility of dieting or trying to consciously control your calorie intake to lose weight and more,  read Diet Recovery: Restoring Hormonal Health, Metabolism, Mood, and Your Relationship with Food. 


  1. Wow, wish I had read this 5 years ago… I'd be in a whole different place.

  2. Lol. How does one let go and forgive oneself when one has completely obliterated their own health and sacrificed everything in the name of health. I ordered the book.

    I sure hope to hell I can get my health back, so that I can have an attitude like this. Is that wrong? Am I doin git backwards? If I fukitol now, I will never regain health?

  3. Bruddah Iz! Voice is like honey…

    -great post Matt

  4. Inspirational post Matt. I hope this spreads like a wildfire.

    Have a good holiday.

  5. Erika … he says it in the post fix your health then let the weight worry about itself.

    You have to dig deep and look to why you fixate (fears most likely) and " fill your head with flowers" focus on your unique awesomeness and fill your life with things that bring you great joy and self worth as a "bullet proof" jacket meaning no matter how fat or wrinkled you get you still have X units of awesomeness that outweigh any negative vibes…

  6. Wow. Just a solid wow. This is everything that's been going through my head since October. What really hit me in Linda's book was the idea of figuring out what you think your life would be like if you were at your ideal weight. Putting some time into thinking about that really gave me some perspective.

    What are you *not* doing right now because you're not "x" pounds thinner (or "x" percentage of body fat, etc.)? Really think about it. The answer reveals a lot about the way you view yourself and your life.

    Your relationship points are spot on, Matt. I've been on both sides of this. Obsessing with personal appearance immediately drags a relationship down, even a very solid one. Likewise, learning to embrace yourself (and life) as-is can be incredibly healing to any relationship.

    To anyone who feels something is "missing" in their life or their relationship, take this post seriously. This means far more than figuring out macronutrient percentages, which foods are "bad" or "good", doing HIIT, or whatever. If you don't get this basic premise down, then it's all for nothing.

  7. Excellent!

  8. Stunner of a post. Something every dieter everywhere should see (and take to heart).

  9. "What really hit me in Linda's book was the idea of figuring out what you think your life would be like if you were at your ideal weight. Putting some time into thinking about that really gave me some perspective."

    I like that, Elizabeth! A good point to make- take some of that drug Matt mentions and try to take pleasure in life, including contributing in the ways that feel great.

  10. Matt,
    I agree with a large part of the post ( truly is well thought out and must hit home for those that obsess with scale numbers ) I disagree that it is all about marketing by big corporations. in our daily lives humans have always taken part in some sort of ritual to "market" themselves to the opposite sex, our survival depends on it.

    reading this made me think of a girl I dated for several years who obsessed in the mirror everytime before leaving the house. Her friends would say to me " chief your girl is so beautiful !! i envy her" ( same sex power struggle) i would just say uh huh if thats what you look for .and they would looked puzzled after when I would say "you don't see what I get to see her REAL beauty is when she spends the day at home in her comfy clothes with nobody to impress. She lets the real her out that I can see with my eyes closed ! if only she let that shine when everybody was around. she gave the impression to many she was not a deep person.

  11. Matt, I want to deeply thank you from the most heartiest part of my heart. This post was a great inspirations, my eyes have been opened, my life will never be the same.

    Actually, this will be my last comment at 180 Degree Health, because starting this very moment, I am gonna follow my passion and become a world-travelling, meditating street musician. I will delight the whole world by playing my freestyle drum-interpretations of Queens of the Stone Age while setting my environment on fire by using chi-blasts (which is much cheaper than pyrotechnics anyways).

    I know that, as the years pass, the great clock of time will inevitably erase your memories of me from your minds, but still, I want you to always keep in mind the centerpiece of my philosophy. And that is to boil them, to mash them and to stick them in a stew!


  12. Oh, just to get things straight, I am not trying to mock this post. I'm just being silly.

    I really thought it was a great post and I agree with most of it. Great job, Matt!

  13. I think this current obsession is a highly disturbed version of normal human behavior. If we are going with the theory of fatness = starvation. in the our past the anorexic look and the "more than chubby" obese look would be a sigh the community is failing due to starvation. No body wants to align themselves with failure.

    in our evolution cues that starvation has been going on would be a sign of a mate with a bad track record I highly doubt a great number of people go out of their way to procreate with morbidly obese or anorexic folks due not to marketing but a brain hardwired by evolution to look for flaws. Regardless of personality traits this would be a factor at least to some degree. The only trump being access to abundant resources( money) donald trump ain't reelin' em in with his hair. Thats not to say we should obsess about it for better success, I believe the opposite to be true, when the stress from obsessing is gone the natural true normal weight emerges. I do agree that a drastic imbalance in self perceived value takes a toll on relationships people should really come to love the skin they are in.

  14. Thanks, I needed that!

  15. Thanks for your comments everyone, even yours Madmuhhh, lol.

    I just received this message from someone, and this is exactly what we're talking about here…

    "I grew up and was never fat, we were actually really skinny kids, ate good nutritious homecooked meals and were always outside playing. About 9th grade, I started not being as skinny and then it all started after my mom said I couldnt eat like a kid anymore (ie, anything, anytime etc). She wasn't being mean just saying to watch it. Well this started the next 10 years of my life being obessed with excercise, dieting, ups and downs, hating myself/body, constantly worried about what i was eating, when I was going to eat, how much fat and then bingeing and then hating myself bc I did. I tried all the diets out there -atkins, WW, my own calorie counting. At one point I was obessed with running and would run twice a day in highschool. I was down to 112 lbs and am 5'6 and I remember a kid in my neighborhood saw me running and was like "why do you run so much?" I said "to lose weight"…he goes "FROM WHERE?". But to me, I needed to stay slim or else I'd "be fat" and "ugly".

    And this was normal – I dont remember a friend, (save one in college) that wasn't obsessed and in bondage over food and body image.

    So when I was 24, I was so fed up I remember crying and I said, I'm not dieting for the rest of my life – EVER. I dont care how much I weigh, I dont care how much I gain, I REFUSE to live like this anymore and REFUSE to ever pass this destructive behavior down to a daughter some day. I said, I am stopping this NOW because the mental and emotional pain of obsessing and hating is worse to live with than if I ever would become "fat" by not dieting.

    Even though eveyone thought I was crazy and it took alot of discipline in the beginning, I literally ate whatever I wanted whenever my body wanted it. I have never once been on the scale since. I realized the more of anything I "allowed" myself to have the less I wanted it bc my body knew that if it needed it, I could have it and it would tell me.

    Long story short, I am now healed from that destructive behavoir and never eat unless I'm hungry, its just second nature now. The irony is that in the first two years after I started my "no diet for life" – I went down two sizes and have stayed that way no matter what I eat or how little I work out – I've consistently been a size 4 for the last 7 years, something I NEVER did prior – I would always ballon up to an 8 then diet and lose weight, ballon up to a 8 and go down – all over the place, my body was a mess. Also for a big chunk of that time, I had very sporadic periods until I was 21 bc of my crazy body and dieting mess.

    Anyways, I'm telling you all this to say thanks for getting the word out. I have spent the last 7 years helping a bunch of my close friends rid themselves from all the food and body bondage just based on my own random personal experiences and its great to hear someone like you, that has the attention of many people, preach the truth! :)

    I love all of your research and blogs, keep up the great work and let me tell you – I'm a living example that what you just wrote WORKS. I've by no means "arrived" at some health uptopia but its a work in progress just as all life is and its cool to just learn how to be kind to your body and love yourself bc its the only body we've got!

    Sorry that got kind of long, just wanted to share. Merry Christmas and Happy New Year!

    Oh and PS….best line in your blog was when its said you do more damage stressing out about what you eat than actually eating junk – I concur 100% this is true!

  16. Madmuhh , we will never forget you Mr potatoehead :)

    follow your passion!

  17. Physical attractiveness attracts attention, which like anything pleasurable is just another high as far as I'm concerned, but like all highs it comes to an end, you just want more and more – either that or you try dieting yourself smaller, growing your hair longer…more attention, longer highs, but like any drug you need more to get the same effect. Enter plastic surgery, more dieting, sexier clothing…this is what I've been seeing lately among people I know, most of us are over 30 (and female).

    As females we do what we think we're supposed to do. As a sixteen year old, I thought it was normal to wear heels with my school uniform, layers of makeup, etc. – just looking for acceptance and a boost to the self-esteem. The lack of self-esteem comes from a lot of places, but I think that deep down many of us are still just 10-year old girls who were told to stop eating ice cream and watch our figures while our brothers were told nothing.

    So the feelings of inadequacy remained, the seed was planted – to focus on the outside and maintain a level of physical attractiveness such that it would require approval from others to fill the void. I'm not saying this was the case for all females, as some got into sports or dance or whatever, but in my experience this holds true for most. Throw in an unattainable standard of attractiveness, and we're forever chasing a goal that we'll never reach and even if we got close (as Matt explained above) it's not even worth it.

    The thing Demartini says about planting flowers vs. pulling weeds is so true. We women need to plant flowers, no doubt. This new year I'll be taking Aikido, ballet, maybe capoeira – and this surely will leave more time for cultivating art and less time for stressing about the size of my ass.

  18. Damn Matt…Your blog gets better with every post.It's like, ridiculous, man. Clearly, you are living your Dharma.

  19. matt,

    the anonymous email you just posted was easily the one of the top 5 best comment I have read on 180. I applaud it, if the author so desires I would love to pick her ( I assume ) brain

    mystery woman, feel free to write me I loved your story. you can help me inspire others if you do

    thanks in advance

  20. Ha ha Kash,

    I was told by the family doctor to try to cut out snacks! So there! "Brothers" get the treatment too sometimes.

    I agree Chief. I haven't heard from her to see if I can reveal who wrote it, but it is awesome.

  21. Planting flowers in my brain. ;)

    Merry Christmas!

    Matt, because of this website, you and the people I have met here, I feel like my daughters will have a very different perspective on themselves and life. It's stuff like this I want to teach them!

    Chief, your insights amaze me. Hope clarity comes and I can share what I have learned from you guys…

    Aw, this has gotten all mushy. :)


  22. Thanks Erika , glad to help mushy is good except with bananas.
    Hope your daughter find peace too.

    yea it struck me because I always have trouble breaking the girls of their mental barriers to weight "un-management " it seems the more we advance( discovery of calories) the more people assume they need to control em when in fact their ancestors had no way to read the nutrition facts on the side of a handful of nuts they were about to eat.

    sometimes being ignorant has its benefits.

  23. Loved that Matt. Very powerful, very transcendent. Probably your most striking post yet.

    The quest for leanness is pointless, for both sexes.

    For a man, a lean attractive physique is about as useful as tits on a bull. It can certainly be an asset, if its stacked alongside other cards that are much more critical to attracting women.But in and of itself, physical beauty is useless for a man. Even the vein, superficial women will always look at a man's confidence, charm, charisma, and social status before they even consider his physique.

    Who's more likely to meet girls? An adonis-like but self-conscious loner, who dedicates his existence to the gym, and stutters and stammers the second he makes eye contact with a woman? Or a confident overweight man, who has a great sense of humor,tons of friends, and is completely at ease around women?

    And women are farrr too hard on themselves when it comes to boy fat. I know many men, myself included, who prefer women to maintain their own natural level of body fat. Normally, their boobs are a lot bigger and their asses much hotter,to be frank.

    The 5% body fat range is not sexually attractive, for either sex. Who wants to sleep with a muscled skeleton. That level of leanness is only appreciated in a freak-show, novelty sort of way. You might get a lot of looks, but guys like Martin Berkhan are delusional if they think that turns women on. They wage a war against themselves to achieve a level of leanness that actually repels the opposite sex. How sad and ironic is that??

    Actually, when a man becomes that lean, he usually receives more compliments from other men. How…latent…is that?

    But I guess I'm not really emphasizing your main point, which is to appreciate more enduring qualities in yourself and others, that have nothing to do with appearance. And you're right, that is something we should all focus on. We will all get old, wrinkly and saggy eventually.

    At that point, we'll only be left with the qualities we nurtured inside ourselves.

  24. Roberto,
    I fully agree, and can relate in full to what you are saying because even in my fat days I routinely dated very desirable women much to the bewilderment of all my friends. I even did experiments not combing my hair and dressing like a bum to prove it wasn't the money. confidence, charism originality and ambition trump all things when attracting women. I feel bad for women given this difference combined with unachievable body image ideals that strangely enough were furthered by women's magazines written by women.

    When you look at male and female perceptions of female bodies they differ alot

    as seen here


    At the same time the stress other stresses are pushed on males and now as things move towards the pursuit of 5 min abs. Males are starting to become worse than the girls with body image issues as you have pointed out.

  25. Great comment Roberto. I agree with every single sentence of it. Probably even the periods and commas, but I am not entirely sure on that just yet.

  26. Madmuhhh's back from his world tour already! Good to see ya buddy!


    All important comments, and it's important to expose those ideas as they lighten the burden that many face when it comes to how they look.

    I think the most important point is getting back to what I said briefly in the post, that most pursuits for leanness are competitions with people of the same sex for placement in the pecking order, and not a reflection of what is actually attractive. It's more like rams butting heads to declare the alpha stud muffin. Various expressions of physical dominance.

    A quote on this from Courtney Martin (quoted to open this post) as to what men find attractive in a woman:

    “In truth, if you are worrying about snagging a man, you would be better off spending your time taking an improv comedy class than running on the treadmill; watching The Daily Show instead of Desperate Housewives; and reading Amy Sedaris instead of the latest diet book. Guys don’t want disappearing women. In direct contrast, they actually want women who are present, strong, and ambitious. Guys don’t want women who maintain a tiny size if it isn’t their natural weight. They want women who carry their size with grace. Guys don’t want women who are obsessed with every little thing they put in their mouths. They want girls who can put back a few beers, eat a burger, get an ice cream if the weather is hot and life is good.

    More than big tits and a small waist, or expensive clothes and a trendy haircut, guys want girls who can make them laugh their asses off. They want women who challenge them, mystify them, make them go on spontaneous adventures. Guys want someone who makes them feel totally comfortable and seen on the one hand, and pushes them to be uncomfortable on the other: keeps them on their toes, makes sweet fun of them, inspires them to be even more authentic to who they truly are, even if it means taking a few risk.”

    Ha ha, you have to wonder if Courtney is a man!

    And I will say that many guys would probably come on to bigger girls even more often out of straight physical attraction, but the biggest fear they have is being seen by their friends!! (reminds of the ol' what do fat girls and mopeds have in common joke) Ha ha, it's always more about obtaining a higher rank amongst your own sex.

  27. Oh yea,
    in light of the whole body image topic I just thought of something Jt said to me that its not about looking good naked. Even though I have reached my normal weight that is functional and effortless to maintain, I'm completely happy with it without ever having ripped abs. I accepted it out the gate that like most heavy weights its simply tough to have that look. The amount of fat on the body works in percentages and little guys like kitavans don't have as much total fat as me . just look at most of the 220 plus pounders in the UFC like Cain Velasquez.
    Not a lot of calvin klein advertisement/ab-worthy pics when you look at those guys when a few of them do cut down they lose a lot of function.

    I am sure I have muscles in my abdomen and I could cut down fat without a problem but if it's not natural and automatic it's not normal and hence not desirable to me.

    I prefer performing better naked over looking good naked any day. :)

    love the skin your in the rest will come much easier

  28. Matt,
    Great post and perfect timing. Hopefully this will prevent people from the stupid practice of making a New years resolution to lose 10 pounds.

    It is good advice to quit focusing so much on physical appearance, but this is just a part of human nature that probably can't be changed unless you attain some sort of buddha like enlightenment. Every person i have ever met who said they didn't care was just pretending or severely depressed.

    The key is to find balance. It is OK to want to maintain a reasonable amount leanness and muscularity. It is just a problem when it becomes an obssession that harms your mental, social, or physical health.

  29. Matt,

    courtney sounds pretty manly, ….a little too manly

    personally my main reason to dodge "big girls" is the baggage that comes with their issue the same applies to neurotically skinnies. the upgrade/ranking thing is a crazy no doubt.

    some of these girls have more junk in the trunk


    but they are all very pretty women and I wouldn't call em mopeds :) I like variety… buffets rock

  30. Roberto,

    In my experience you are completely wrong. I have seen it many many times where a lean muscular guy who has nothing to offer other than his physique gets lots of extremely attractive women. Usually they want this type of guy for sex not necessarily relationships. When it comes to a committed relationship like marriage they are more attracted to money.

    But, guys who don't have a good physique can still get lots of girls if they have other qualities like a good personality. It is just much easier for the fitness model who has chicks throwing themselves at him even if he has no personality at all.

  31. i've dated extremely hot guys, guys with money, guys without, all i really want is someone who calls me out when I'm talking shit and can deal with my temper tantrums…i.e. someone genuine who is honest.

  32. Chief,

    I am with you man. I don't mind if a girl is a little thick, most guys don't. The problem is dealing with all of their emotional baggage tied to them thinking they are not skinny enough. The biggest turnoff is a chick that is constantly worried about not being skinny enough. Actually, I have never met a guy that prefers a super lean chick with abs.

    You are also right about the abs obsession. Some people have them with no effort because they are just naturally lean in that area. Some people just don't have the genetic predisposition for abs, so they will have to maintain an unhealthy level of leanness for their body to get abs.

  33. JT, I second that one, abs are pretty gross on girls to me
    but on the guys with looks subject your totally wrong even when I looked like complete dogshit, I snagged girls in a room full of male models with their shirts off. Even then women were interested in me with those guys around due to the way i carried myself. It all depends on the person.

    I would say 20 % of its looks and because of this it can facilitate things for some but with the right guy in the room, say my brother who looks like the opposite of muscular. sorta like criss angel with a slight beer gut, and does not look like he has money, drives a rusted up rezd'out ride and he scoops em all, 3 in a night even, leaving the Ab-man in the dust every time.

  34. thanks for this. just tonight i skipped a dinner with friends…even though i was ravenous and haven't seen them in months… because i resolved to start calorie-restricting again (despite being told time and time again that it will cause me to ultimately actually get fat). i read this post, got up and put some potatoes in the oven, and enjoyed a nice meal with my family. i wish i had looked at this site an hour earlier so my friends wouldn't be mad at me for bailing, but such is life. i want to make posts like these wallet-sized so i won't forget!

  35. WHEEZY

    EAT THE FOOD ! ! resistance is futile

  36. Chief,

    I agree that physique isn't everything when it comes to getting girls. If you are really charismatic then you can attract attention to yourself in that way as well. I have known guys that are into the PUA (pick up artist) stuff that got pretty good at getting girls and manipulating that way as well. But, I know for a fact being lean and muscular increases the amount of women that want to mate with you. This is an indisputable fact for me due to the fact I have seen it so much.

    Women will naturally want to mate with the male who possess these physical characteristics, but another male may be able to convince them into choosing them instead for other reasons. Just like humans naturally prefer sweet foods, but a health propagandist may talk them into eating a salad instead, maybe even convince them that they really like the taste of green leaves better.

  37. JT

    Okay, picture this guy in your mind. He's 26 years old. He lives with his parents and is unemployed. He doesn't own a car. He is very awkward socially. Whenever he meets a girl he can't think of anything to say. He's becoming morose and depressed. You mean to tell me that just by shredding his physique beautiful women are going to kick down his door to ravish him?

    We live in separate universes if that's the case.

    But, I'm sure that's what the fitness magazines and supplement industry would like him to believe.

    Maybe there are women who want nothing but a toned body in their partner. If that's all they're concerned with, I imagine they are quite insecure and awkward themselves.

    Anyways, I'm not going to overgeneralize about what attracts women, because that's silly, and irrelevant to the topic at hand.

    Even that hypothetical guy above could find a girl who loves him despite his less than ideal circumstances.

    I made the following points:

    1) Girls don't need to be super lean to be attractive. In fact, most men find that repulsive. Relax girls, that extra 20 pounds is your friend, it makes certain things we constantly look at even harder to stop looking at.

    2) The 5% body fat physique is not sexually attractive. Most people find it hideous. Yet, people are torturing themselves and destroying their metabolisms in pursuit of it. Stupid…Futile…Insane…

    3)Let me rephrase this one: You don't HAVE TO be lean and muscular to attract women whom you find attractive. And there's a good chance that such an improvement will do nothing for you in that regard. Most women are quite capable of being turned on by mediocre looking dudes who make them laugh, feel really good about themselves, and provide them a secure and enjoyable life. So if you find you're stuck in a monomaniacal hell of fad diets and obsessive exercise routines, let go, it was a needless lie from the get go.

    I stand by all of that.

  38. JT,

    Sorry if that sounded sarcastic. Didn't mean it to be.

  39. i think what you see is more natural self confidence in the lean muscular types. if a woman can get all the things she wants in a man and to boot he has muscles then sure she wont turn him away but thats almost never her primary goal.

    if it was then the first chipandales would have not been a total disaster as it was a direct emulation of what male driven strip clubs had succeed with (all looks). The women were turned off by the looks based raw sex. It wasn't until they hired a specialist that incorporated Fireman, policeman, doctor and other power/ status type roles to bring female fantasies to life did it actually work.

    I'm not saying that women ( i cant really speak for them lol) are looking for ugly dudes. I do'nt even want to generalize either just saying that it is secondary in their quest for the perfect mate in what I have seen. If they only judged themselves by the same measuring stick they judge us with .. there would be no eating disorders.

    i hear girl's ask when they are being set up with a blind date hes not a loser right ? ok what does he do? what's he like ? what's he into blah blah then is he cute ? usually more near the end of the questions

    male friend will say … your not setting me up with some fugly girl right ? plus teenage boys would be stressing about calories like girls do at that age far more. I have very little resistance with guys trying to lose weight when i tell em fuck calories.

  40. BRILLIANT post, Matt!!! I love, love, love how you can write about topics like this one day and lipid metabolism the next.

    I keep writing and erasing comments, realizing I have nothing to add here. You've said it all.

    Obsession with looks is a short trip to unhappiness. That is it.

  41. Chief,

    I agree man.

  42. Plus, you can make an absolute ass of yourself if you flaunt your physique. Like that "Mike The Situation" guy. Utter douche bag. Granted, he is an extreme example.

  43. But, whoever you are and whatever you look like, what Matt said in this post makes complete sense. If you predicate a relationship solely on looks, it'll deteriorate along with your beauty. You could be the most intoxicatingly beautiful person in the world, but if that's all your partner sees in you, you'll never have a satisfying relationship.

  44. Roberto,

    well put
    especially :
    1) Girls don't need to be super lean to be attractive. In fact, most men find that repulsive. Relax girls, that extra 20 pounds is your friend, it makes certain things we constantly look at even harder to stop looking at.


    i could not agree more with that whole comment.

    males and females alike you are not genetically predisposed and doomed to be runaway train of fat gain.Your normal body will emerge when you stop fighting against it and send it the signal you need more fat learn to accept it when it does.

    we come in all shapes and sizes which under normal conditions fall in a pretty small range of variation, accept that you cant look like such and such and it's easy. The goal should be to focus on being normal and happy and all else will follow with little in the way of effort.

  45. Amen Chief

  46. As a mom and as someone who has let the health/fitness obsession get a little too out of control, I want to share this.

    It starts young.
    Really young.
    And if you think your kids, or relative of yours that are kids (esp your daughters) are not watching your every move you are dead wrong. I think back on my own mom, who would Never wear a swimsuit, hated taking us the the beach and just seemed to reject her body silently. I can remember hating my 'fat knees' in 2nd grade. That's about eight years old. It just got worse from there, peeking in eighth grade with not wanting it to be sunny so I could wear a jacket. Yeah. I felt fat. And I was not. I was a girl in puberty, an extra sensitive time for body image.

    Last week, my daughter said that she was going to "exercise more and eat less candy". When I asked her what she was talking about, my nine year old let me know that she weighed herself (not a family habit btw) and she 'gained six lbs." Shocked, I asked that led to that and she told me that another girl had told her she was 'fat'.

    My baby, who is so not fat, she is rather slim in fact, told she was fat by a ten year old girl. After lengthy discussion, I got her to let go of this notion but it literally scared the shit out of me. I told her dad, no more talking about your "belly fat" and I told myself, no more eating only salad for dinner *used to ONLY eat that when raw*.

    Because even though I am a real food advocate, a person who uses cream, eggs, butter, sausage and feeds that to her kid, I just may have had a negative impact on my daughter, esp during my raw vegan phase.
    Did I do raw vegan to lose weight ? Not at all. I did it to slow down my cancer. Did my daughter know that? No, she did not, until I stopped following that silliness and took to the meat and milk again.

    Fathers (and mothers) be good to your daughters. Teach them to enjoy food, to love their bodies to move and exercise for fun, not grimly pushing through life to get to the smaller pant size.

    Ok, getting off my soap box now.


  47. great post deb ,

    glad i can learn from you before the little ones come :)

  48. Thanks Deb. Awesome comment. And it's so true of today's generation. It's getting really extreme. The Perfect Girls Starving Daughters book is a great read on that if you geek out on that kind of thing.

    I love the other day when you said your kid referred to you by saying "my mom's the one who only eats salad!" Hilarious.

    Anyway, loved it. You da best.

  49. Roberto & Chief,
    I agree with you guys that there is more to attracting women than looks. There is actually quite bit of research on the topic. One interesting point is that women find the man with a good physique more desirable for a 1 night stand, but not for a relationship, because they think he would be more likely to cheat. So yes, Roberto you are tight about physique having nothing to do with a good relationship.

    I had a friend that used to live in my unfinished basement. He was in his 40s, bald, no money, unsocial, but had a good physique. He had sex with literally hundreds of women. He would bring home new women on a regular basis and take them down to the basement. But, none of these women wanted a relationship, just sex. He was not happy.

  50. JT,

    I think we're on the same page. As cliche as it sounds, happiness comes from within.

  51. JT may I speak for most women and say "EWWWWWW!" about your roommate's odd lifestyle?

    Chief: Damn kids are complicated. Or rather, parenting is. Kids are pretty straightforward actually. :)

    Matt: Yep, that was me, the salad eating momma. In my post, I left out all the body demeaning comments I endured from my dad, including him mentioning that he was "glad to see that I was developing".. meaning breasts.. that made me hide them for oh, about ten years or so. He regularly referred to my mom as "the fat broad" and if I gained any weight he always let me know about it. I recall him lecturing me about eating butter and the evils of that habit. My mom and I are more of the shorter, germanic style body, with lots of muscle etc. My dad, brother and sister? Tall and skinny with not much effort put into weight loss. Oh families, ya gotta love em and you can't pick them can you?
    My dad even would buy me crazy shit for Christmas like a fully fluorescent bike outfit..hint hint. I hated that thing and never wore it. Oh yeah, and he was a type 1 diabetic so guess what we had all over the place, esp at the Holidays? See's Candy, boxes of it. Homemade fudge too. And my mom would hide her favorite candy all over the house. Nice. Kind of a recipe for oddball dieting is it not?
    No wonder I am so weird.

    Later guys, I gotta go make some baked goods to foist off on my neighbors.

  52. Just read 'The Obesity Epidemic: Science, Morality and Ideology' by Michael Gard and Jan Wright.

    It really challenges the notion that obesity necessarily equates to disease, and that we are experiencing an 'epidemic'. The central ideal is that viewing the body as a machine "has failed to produce useful ways of thinking and shows no sign of doing so in the future. This is important because in its efforts to appear mechanistically scientific, the science of obesity has failed to see its own moral and ideological biases…. Two potential new courses of action are open to those who are interested in body weight and health. One of these is unlikely to be welcomed by the medical and scientific communities despite, we would argue, enjoying a good deal of scientific support. This would be simply to 'get over' body weight altogether. Not only have the solutions offered by obesity science in the past not worked, but also a renewed all-out 'war on obesity' will have other unforseen consequences for how people relate to each other and feel about themselves, which may be both unealthy and plainly unethical….The other course of action would be to leave the model of 'body as machine' behind."

  53. deb, I'm going through the same thing with my 9 year old, she's been called fat by other kids too. Although she does a some weight around her middle, she's not fat, I definately think she's adding some padding before puberty. I was always self-loathing, I've tried not to be for my daughters, but I'm the mom who won't wear a swimming suit…..

  54. yeah Carroll, that's on my list of about 40 similar titles for next year. That one is close to the top.

  55. Anonymous, this is critical, I was 9 years old when the same thing happened to me which resulted in all my insecurities, eating disorders and hardships that followed. I don't know what to say, really, other than to advise that you enroll her in sports, dance lessons, gymnastics, anything to get her mind off of what's happening at school and develop some confidence.

  56. I'm usually a lurker, but had to tell you that this post has really touched me. Thank you Matt and the rest of the commenters who contribute so much to the conversation. Your thoughts and insight are invaluable. Let 2011 be a year of healing and health for all of us.

  57. Deb,
    Who know maybe you would have liked him! The basement was like a dungeon though, not sure you would have liked that. His womanizing lifestyle is not so unusual, I have known a few guys that were just as extreme.

  58. Matt,

    It was kind of a funny experience for me today after reading your post. I went to the gym and paid attention to the characters. There were the young girls on the treadmill trying to lose the last 10 pounds so that they can finally like themselves and score the rich husband who will toss them away when they gain back 30. Then you see the old cougars who used to be the pretty young girls but have been traded in by their rich husbands. It is almost surreal to see the old ones that have huge fake boobs and a lot of plastic surgery, looking like 70 year old porn stars.

    Then i went to my yoga class and the women were completely different. I saw these women who were in great shape and looked good. They were totally into their physical fitness and diet, but the intent behind it was completely different. They didn't eat and exercise to be skinny, they did it because they were interested in developing their body so that they could live life better. Some of these women are over 60 and have better physiques than the 20 year olds at the gym, even though they eat plenty of carbs and don't count calories.

  59. I am not sure which Anon is writing.. but the one who's daughter is getting called names.. yeah, kids are mean, even if they like someone, they insult each other quite a lot. And it cuts deep.
    On sports etc. My kid loved dance then they cut that class.. three tries later.. no classes she likes. I loved sports and was always in sports growing up. I like the idea of growing confidence in a young person.. there are many ways to do that. Sadly, bullying happens and name calling hurts deeply. I try to focus on her passions, which involve art and piano and focus on those things. My husband keeps trying to 'force' sports on her. that is a bad idea in my opinion.
    There is a new book on parenting that is very good by Po Bronson called Nuture shock, find info here:
    Lots of the things we always thought helped kids like praise, turn out to be not so great.

    Good Luck, childhood can be a tough place to be.
    PS JT: I promise, I would not like him! I watch too much Dexter to like anyone who wants me to go in a basement.

  60. deb,
    haaaa dexter lol

  61. JT: I see that at my gym too. I have always thought that elective plastic surgery=self loathing. With all apologizes to those who 'own' some equipment they paid for.. even my bff..who got boobs over twenty years ago.. got them for the wrong reason (Man Magnet) IMHO. She is also one constantly trying to lose 5-10 lbs.. and does, every few weeks, then gains back 15.


  62. Chief: This season was over the top creepy and scary. I need to quit watching shit like that. It makes getting good sleep that much harder, although it does get my heart rate up like a good HIT session.

  63. One of your best posts.


  64. I have to kind of disagree on some of this post.

    For one, I do not like fit women because they are scarce. I like them because I am an aficianado of human form, and this appreciation is sexual with women.

    I enjoy anatomy and kinesiology. I like dancers. I like being able to see anatomical features, muscles, bone structures, and yes on women a certain level of fat is best, too thin is no good.

    Also, from a perspective of finding a mate, when I look at a woman, I imagine what our kid would be like. I am not tall, a low average 5'8''. So I really have no interest in having a child with a woman who is shorter than me.

    People will say that this is superficial, hedonistic, and heartless, but you simply can't argue with beauty. I want to make the world a more beautiful place and health IS beauty. By mating with a genetically fit human being, my kids will be more genetically fit. Markers of beauty are also markers of genetic fitness. Symmetry, well developed dental arches. Height.

    This has been a difficult path for me because i have been in love with a woman who I did not want to have a child with, because she was very short and not very robust. Her personality was great. She was a talented artist, funny, smart. Adorable.

    But I think people should think more practically. Human genetic fitness is really in dire straits. And I would NEVER wish to impose eugenic style laws banning certain people from procreating.

    Rather I wish to encourage the appreciation for beauty because I think we are losing it.

    People have kids for some pretty base and selfish reasons. To get stability in their life, to feel the power of procreation, because they think it is a duty, because it 'happens on accident'.

    I think the world would be a better place if people paid MORE attention to physical features of attractiveness.

    • Dwight?

  65. A quote on this from Courtney Martin (quoted to open this post) as to what men find attractive in a woman:

    “In truth, if you are worrying about snagging a man, you would be better off spending your time taking an improv comedy class than running on the treadmill; watching The Daily Show instead of Desperate Housewives; and reading Amy Sedaris instead of the latest diet book. Guys don’t want disappearing women. In direct contrast, they actually want women who are present, strong, and ambitious. Guys don’t want women who maintain a tiny size if it isn’t their natural weight. They want women who carry their size with grace. Guys don’t want women who are obsessed with every little thing they put in their mouths. They want girls who can put back a few beers, eat a burger, get an ice cream if the weather is hot and life is good.

    More than big tits and a small waist, or expensive clothes and a trendy haircut, guys want girls who can make them laugh their asses off. They want women who challenge them, mystify them, make them go on spontaneous adventures. Guys want someone who makes them feel totally comfortable and seen on the one hand, and pushes them to be uncomfortable on the other: keeps them on their toes, makes sweet fun of them, inspires them to be even more authentic to who they truly are, even if it means taking a few risk.”

    lol, this is obv a woman who thinks men want in women what she wants in a man. The truth is men want a super hot submissive woman who couldn't make a joke to save her life but laughs her ass off at every one of ours. At least I do, but I still have testosterone running my life…

  66. Just on the 2 extremes thing:

    In my opinion, that orthorexia/orthorexic label ("diagnosis" – ha) is total crap, in that it's just another thing to worry about ("Oh, no – on top of all my health/mental/emotional problems, I'm also orthorexic! How do I fix that? What's next??")

    Reminds me of Barbara Ehrenreich's writings about how when she was diagnosed with breast cancer, she was basically made to feel guilty that she wasn't trying hard enough to be more positive, and how by not doing so and instead went looking for answers, she was just making things worse for herself.

    I guess we get the same thing when other catastrophes strike – deaths, relationship breakups, other losses.

    Seems there's no place for mourning… we just have to suck it up, suppress our emotions, smile for the world (be a well-behaved good boy or girl for mommy/daddy is where the origins of that directive lay) and get on with it… whatever "it" is – usually it's just bullshit, anyway.

    It's really just denial.

    I can see, and know from experience, how chronically negative thinking can jeopardise any chance of true satisfaction and joy, but again, there is a lot of room between the 2 extremes.


  67. Comments tend to disappear… I wrote a comment previous to my above one where I basically said something like:

    This is the type of post that got me interested in 180Degree in the first place.

    I agree that stressing over every bit of food that gets eaten is bound to be unhealthy…

    However, I think don't see it as a negative thing to incorporate some level of conscious decision-making and avoidance of certain foods that might cause harm.

    As has been observed on this very site in regards to other topics, there's a lot of ground between the 2 extremes stressing over food choices and cramming down some of the sorts of barely digestible crap that's peddled as "food".

    No need to think of it as black or white.


  68. Also, check out "Transformational Weight Loss" by Charles Eisenstein.

    It's available in its entirety at foodsanity.com

    It's also available in physical paper form.

    His 3 mantras:

    Mantra #1: “I give myself full permission to eat as much as I want.”

    Mantra #2: “I give myself full permission to eat whatever I want.”

    Mantra #3: “I take full pleasure in everything I eat.

    In regards to #3, he writes:

    "This has two important and closely-related benefits. First, it will accustom you to pay attention to feeling, not thinking, when it comes to food. Remember, that mental knowledge about what and how much is “good for you” has never made much difference. You need physical knowledge, knowledge in the body where authentic desire comes from.

    Secondly, this mantra will allow you to integrate in your body the consequences of your choice. If the choice was a good one, you integrate the pleasure and satisfaction that result. If the choice was a poor one, you integrate the discomfort. Next time, your desire will be much clearer in your body."

    He talks about the importance of accepting your body for the way it is now, and that it's the way it is for a very good reason… waging war against it or rejecting it won't work.

    Also talks a lot about needs… We have needs, which generate a desire for the object of the need. When our desires are blocked or denied, we re-direct our desires onto substitutes (such as, but not limited to, food). The true need remains unmet, causing a lot of problems.

    So obviously it's not just about food – it's real, true, needs… and food is only one of our real needs.

    Reminds me, I want to read it again.


  69. Another great book/program for overcoming the vicious cycle of diet addiction is Normal Eating:

    Wish I had stuck to it a year ago instead of jumping back into diet mode.

  70. Ian2: I completely agree with those mantras. That's something similar to what I've been doing after reading Linda Bacon's book.

    To me, only when you're willing to thoroughly enjoy every bite that passes your lips will you truly understand how food makes you feel. This is the first time in my life I will actually not eat things because I know it will make me feel like crap. I've never been able to do that before. I was just on a crazy cycle of self-denial and guilt.

    It's honestly pretty amazing to me, I don't feel like I'm denying myself and I don't feel guilty if I eat something that makes me feel physically terribly. I just make a mental note, "felt like sh*t after eating xyz food." The the next time I have a choice whether or not to eat it, I tend to pass it up because I'd rather not feel like crap.

  71. Kirk , touché i reread it and i actually agree with you and matt at the same time as odd as that is.

    I'm not interested in big tits, fancy clothes or a woman obsessed with with her waist and watches everything she puts in her mouth.

    but at the same time rereading it and thinking about women I have actually dated, none were ambitious or funny or spontaneous lol…. I was. I kinda associated being funny with being goofy they all were goofy cuz they had no choice but to goof of with my goofball ass.

    so I guess in reading it a certain way it looks like a woman that is describing what she wants in a man, with a little insight into what a man does not want.

  72. Elizabeth,

    you comment made me think about my current situation and how food makes me feel. I just finished my most recent fat gain protocol for my next experiment to start soon. …how do i feel…? I feel like complete dog shit lol

    Emotionally/mentally I feel good about myself even with an extra 25 pounds of fat. Like I can still kick ass and girls still flirt and all of that. However, most of the food makes me feel like shit i forgot what it was like being a fattass grrr. constantly hungry, indigestion and "corn syrup blood". It's hard to enjoy any of it really, it doesn't even taste all that great but I "must" eat it … its a crazy thing for those that are naturally skinny to even understand .. I even forget at times…

    just yesterday a female friend texted me .. saying "i feel fat i need to lost weight, i should go on a diet " I texted back …" I feel fat too, i need to lose weight, i should hit up the buffet" ….

  73. Kirk:

    "lol, this is obv a woman who thinks men want in women what she wants in a man. The truth is men want a super hot submissive woman who couldn't make a joke to save her life but laughs her ass off at every one of ours. At least I do, but I still have testosterone running my life… "

    Correction, that's the truth according to Kirk, and it sounds like your ego, rather than testosterone is running your life.

    My experience tells me that men find me much more attractive when I'm confident and achieving things and doing something with my life, rather than obsessing over what I look like. Case in point is the time in my life before I got into this health and wellness game, before I started obsessing over my body. I was much less 'attractive' according to media standards and honestly cared more about my music, traveling and having a good time than what I looked like. I used to crop my hair super short, wear baggy clothes (army pants was my uniform) and weighed a lot more than I do now. I had all kinds of guys interested in me. I'm not the only one, girls in my crew had the same experience.

    Kirk, you need a reality check, but I'm going to let your comments slide for now, cause for all I know you could be 17 years old with only webcam girls on demand forming your experience. And if you're not, it's best you not say anything further at this point, I feel sorry enough for you as is.

  74. Also, I think heterozygosity/homozygosity is pertinent in this discussion.

    Heterozygosity is MUCH more desirable for genetic fitness.

    In fact it has been proven that mixed race induviduals have more prolific sex lives and are considered more desirable.

    A good book on this is Breeding Between The lines: Why Interracial People Are Healthier And More Attractive

    Personally I tend to find myself more attracted to genetically dissimilar women, Asians, Blacks, and Latinas. Perhaps it's just my genes telling me to diversify.

    Of course I like a woman with a great personality, but of course I am looking for a woman with a great personality and a great body.

    There is nothing wrong or bad about people desiring genetic fitness in their sex partners.

    And not many people are very attracted to the Hollywood diet waif women anyways. It has also been shown in data that men prefer Marlyn Monroe types over Teri Hatcher.

    I worked in Hollywood on films and television for four years and I can attest that most of the women on screen these days are TOO thin to be attractive.

    I think a great personality can override certain physical attributes, but I can override this attraction to personality with my will power to wait for a woman that is going to improve upon my genetics should we procreate, like a woman of another race, a taller woman, etc.

  75. tear….. this post is awesome and i dont think it could come at a better time. i have that same quote you put in the begining highlighted in my copy of the starving daughter book!!

    what you said about looks being a depreciable asset….wow, i never thought of it that way for myself only for everyone else. thats so true.

    guys, i personally do not care what you look like haha. i like a guy who takes care of himself but that has nothing to do with how he looks, it is just a side effect, i rarely date guys who are 'muscular' persay. i am a deep person so for me to get in a relationship with someone is hard, i need to know i connect with him and we are able to talk.

    and i gotta say, ever since i just told myself to eat the fucking food and eat lots when im hungry, i have the best body i have ever had…strange how that works!

    i like the quote "what you think you become"

  76. Kirk is correct when he wrote "lol, this is obv a woman who thinks men want in women what she wants in a man."

    This is the first thing I thought when I read that quote as well. It was so blatantly obvious that at first I thought Matt was joking when he posted it.

    But, she is right about her overall point that men don't care if a woman is super skinny and that it is a total turn off when I woman fixates on her weight.

  77. kash money , i agree a woman doing something interesting in her life that enriches mine is a very attractive quality but i also think that the majority of men are looking for first and foremost beauty as kirk and gabriel said weather they admit it or not we can not help the hardwired brain built by evolution.

    I have all the classic signs of testosterone flowing, and i do like submissive women not in the sense of a don't speak! , i own you your my slave…you can't go out with your friends tonight! more like she follows my lead. I am her rock she can count on. women that I know say this is what they prefer and say they just want a guy to take the lead, it puts them at ease makes them more into a guy.
    It could be something as simple as my hand being on top holding hands as we enter a dark scary place that has put my girlfriends at ease.

    I don't think submissive has to be degrading as long as a man remains respectful. i think women get shitted on in this modern society and feel the need to fight head to head with the boys for respect only to end up in an unnatural situation that many are not happy in trying to be one of the boys. A good number of those I have worked with struggle with this and it ends up being the primary thing holding them back from weight loss ( BIG = STRONG so they feel safe) once they embrace their femininity like magic everything else falls into place.

  78. Kash money, cont.

    I have found that understanding this difference in men and women leads to a better relationship as well. Women hate weak guys that they can walk all over and at least I can say I cant live with a woman that acts manly. I need a yin to my yang if i wanted a man I would be gay.

    when a man acts like a like a little girl his friends call him a BITCH! ….when a women is screaming and acting all tough Ironically her friends also say damn she is a total …….!
coincidence i think not :)

  79. Gabriel: Although I can see your point, I felt sad when I read about the short, not the right body for you woman that you let go. I hope that choice does not haunt you one day. Being tall, being naturally thin,pretty, funny, smart and talented.. did not work for my always single 48 year old childless sister.. just saying.
    To be brutally honest with you, some of the most jacked up women I know are considered knockouts with all the requirements you have. Books with nice covers can hide a lot of shitty 'writing' inside them. There is no one sneakier than an unmarried woman who wants kids/a husband. Again, just saying what I have experienced in my fifty plus years on this orb.

    I wish you luck on your hunt for a suitable mate though. And I agree on mixed race people being a bit stronger genetically.
    I have to say, I never even dated an Asian man, then met my husband (Chinese), fell in love with him and 15 years later still here and doing great.
    Oh and my first husband? You mean the tall blond perfect body surfer/karate expert with blue eyes and a killer smile who was so amazing to me while we were dating? Yeah, that ended really badly and if I would have stayed let's just say I would not be here to write this comment to you.

    Something to ponder,
    deb xo

  80. Split into two posts:

    The last two posts were timely for me. In the past 3 months I have been doing a lot of research as well as blog reading and digging. I have also been experimenting on myself as far as diet is concerned which concludes over a year of total experimentation. My experiments are finished with the last one being the tell all for me. I have come full circle and have come to the conclusion that too much thought has been going into something as simple as eating. Stress is the result. The other thing is vanity, as you point out here in this latest post. However being as beautiful as I am, I don’t have that problem…lol. All kidding aside, even though I don’t have a weight problem, I was, in the past, guilty of controlling my weight up and down for poor reasons. Bigger to be a bad ass (that was for the guys) and then not too big so not to look sloppy to the woman. Then bigger to enhance my fighting ability, then smaller again because I felt slower at a heavier weight. In the last few months I decided I don’t care. It’s more stress trying to think about what to eat and when.

    Continued below:

  81. I think leanness really does look better. Maybe its because when we evolved we were mostly lean and so the body shapes we evolved to be attracted to are lean ones. But I just can't deny that lean looks better. When women I know lose weight they are so much more attractive (unless they get too skinny – yes you can be too skinny). Its a cruel reality but in my case at least my visual system responds to the lean look 10X more than to a fatter look. I think its true for most people. I also don't accept that it is a culturally acquired value. I'm pretty sure my preferences would be the same regardless of culture. Madison Ave can't make us like what we don't like. They can only discover what people respond to and exploit it.

    Having said all that I'm no perfectionist. I'm about 23% body fat and so is my GF and this is fine. I'd like to be leaner but I'm not killing myself to do it. I've found that eating lots of vegetables with my meat makes me satiated on fewer calories but I'm not strict enough to have lost any weight eating this way. I only eat this way about 50% of the time which isn't enough. I'll keep trying because I really do want to be thinner but I'm not going to try that hard because my feeling is that if I have to try that hard I won't keep it up long term anyway so there is no sense making myself miserable short-term for no gain. I'll keep looking for ways to do it that are long-term sustainable though.

    As far as what's ideal I think about 14-18% bodyfat for women and 8-14% for men. But really if someone likes you they aren't going to care if you're not perfect. That's really the thing. You don't have to be perfect! or even close! Good thing too because I'm not. You can even be fat and people will still like you and you can find a romantic partner who loves you.

  82. continued from above:

    I just want to be happy and healthy and I don’t want to worry about what someone else might be thinking of me. If they have to judge me by my appearance then there is something wrong with “them” not me. The first time I posted here it wasn’t about diet and weight loss for me, it was only about health. It still is. But now I will just eat good/real food and the rest will take care of itself. I’m not going to fear foods. Real food. Especially since I haven’t had any foods in my life affect me poorly. I’ve really seen some crazy shit on the internet in the last few months. Amazing claims and advice, chastising, bad foods one day and good the next etc.

    continued below:

  83. Chief, I think most men who look 'first and foremost' for beauty are looking for a procreation vehicle. There's nothing wrong with that, it's their business. Some women in this world have a different destiny, one separate from raising children – for this, when done right, takes over one's life and priorities and leaves room for little else. Having said that, some women are just meant to do other things, which may involve cultivation of their art, service to others, learning and philosophy.

    I really appreciate your honesty, it's actually kind of cute, especially the "holding hands as we enter a dark scary place" part which sort of made me laugh. Seriously, I think women who need that sort of reinforcement feel that way because they are being marginalized by society, especially the 'alpha' female who makes her own rules and likes to lead her own life taking responsibility for all her actions. For some of us, there is no other way.

    Personally, I hold a business degree, have been on my own for over a decade, started my own businesses and really roughed it out. I think this qualifies me for all matters of business, at least to the extent of the plethora of men I have met on a personal or professional level that need my advice/guidance. There is no way I would let any man with less experience than I 'lead the way' when I'm clearly more qualified to do so. If he has self-esteem issues based on sexist ideas preventing him from listening to me because I am a woman, then it's his problem.

    On top of that, I'm a superior driver when compared to 100% of the men I have dated, and can design a stock portfolio with an impressive rate of return. In any relationship, there is no doubt that, unless my man is a financial guru, I would manage the money. A real man with a healthy ego would appreciate such talents. There are thousands of traits in this world, the above are some of my strongest and any partner worth having would excel in his. To try to fit any other mold based on some gender-based template results in a one-dimensional society. History is filled with examples of societies where women held leadership roles. I like to think I'm the descendant of warriors who invaded europe from the east. The old men in my neighbourhood used to call me 'Amazona', because I'm tall and walk with purpose. Never had I been so miserable than when I was trying to fit the submissive female role, and I imagine I'm not alone.

    If any of this sounds conceited, well then, good, cause I'm Kash Money, and that's how it is.

  84. JT, i kept going back n forth on weather matt was being sarcastic and when kirk posted I realized why i was puzzled. the statement by the woman in matt's quote is puzzling in itself and I agree with it and disagree with it.

    makes me think of some sound advice about women from a female friend, "dont listen to what women say they want, We don't know what the hell we want! "
    ….I just hope one day they make an estrogenese dictionary so i can stop apologizing for things i didn't know even happened……
    I hope it contains the correct response for "Do i look fat ? "

    cuz of course not honey = your lying .. now i know not to trust you !

    and the answer … "well a little but i love it!" = "your lying to make me feel better I now know you are just trying to manipulate me with lies "

    both results in said girlfriend stomping off in the same manner …

    oh how i love you ladies… your acute stress makes me stronger …

  85. I think there's something to be said for perspective and priority when it comes to the topic of attractiveness. I mean, how important is it to you?

    I think we all have ideas about what is "ideal" for men and women when it comes to physical looks, but the point is not what is your ideal but what is your priority.

    The whole point of this post (I speculate) wasn't that physical looks are meaningless, but that how much they mean directly affects how happy we are. Those who place the most value in physical looks and put immense effort into trying to perfect those looks (or seek perfection in others) are generally headed down the road to misery.

    Sitting around trying to envision the "ideal" mate for yourself or someone else doesn't really make much of a difference. Most of the time we have no idea what would make us truly happy, anyway.

  86. Elizabeth , well said .. happiness is a strange path at times

    Kash money,

    it was meant to be funny .. lol im an adventurer and take my girlfriends to some crazy places. you wanna go where ??.. in that thing ??" … yup lol

    i think a woman can posses purpose and excel in art or what ever they choose and at the same time be a mother. In our traditional government we have Clan mothers that come to a consensus and lead in a very womanly way. they pass on their thoughts to the chief who directs things but ultimately both sexes are accounted for and the women have most of the power. This is good as they do not tend to get in pissing contests and start needless wars.

    all of my girlfriends thought they were better drivers :P which might be true but the bumps and scratches put on my car would tell a different tale. :) cars are dumb anyway

    curious how you would define a person's superiority in business ? i started my first one at as a teenager and have been a serial entrepreneur ever since … but i don't have a degree ..would you still demand the reigns with someone like me ? or just dump me lol

  87. Debbie:

    Thanks for your reply. I am definitely not saying that physical trumps personality. Of course I would not start a family with a model that is boring to converse with and slow to laugh. Working in Hollywood, I meet women all the time who are physically sexy but they lose their charm really quick when they open their mouths and speak.

    All I am saying is that looks DO matter. Not only that but I think they SHOULD (though I am not a eugenicist who would force people to breed or not breed), for the benefit of humanity.

    It is kind of tragic about the short woman who I dated and loved, but when it comes down to it, I can fall in love again, with a taller woman.

    Short people, and people that are considered physically unattractive, have less benefits in life, make less money, and are less self actualized.

    I am not going to have children with a woman who has severe teeth crowding, an underdeveloped lower jaw, and a waist to hip ratio that varies drastically from .06-.09.

    What better reason is there to procreate than to improve the genetic fitness of our species?

  88. Taylor: sensible words.

    I am not overly obsessed about it either. Personally I feel better when I am leaner. I don't like to sit down and feel rolls of fat on my belly. I don't like feeling heavy.

    And I think there is an ideal for men and women. Women carry a little extra better.

  89. Gabriel: I can think of lots of better reasons to procreate than to 'improve the genetic fitness of our species'. Again, I feel your focus is a bit skewed to the science and a lot away from the heart and soul of love and children.
    Without that, personally, it would not be worth doing.
    My two cents

  90. I wouldn't want a partner who thinks that genetics are responsible for physical characteristics like you mentioned, since that person is probably not very intelligent and not even capable of interpreting very simple empirical findings.
    But you might have other advantages…

  91. a few further thoughts on the choice of a partner for 'physical attributes etc."

    1. Age does funny things to people.. see the post Matt wrote above.. depreciating assets eh hem…so does disease, car accidents etc etc.

    2. You can be gorgeous, both parents perfect in every way and STILL get an off gene, a downs syndrome Jerry's Kid or some other issue. There is still No way to control that, short of an amniocentesis and then a late term abortion. Now there's a good time.

    3. What about the family history? How do you know if Grandpa Vladimir was a dwarf? Or Aunt June had kinky frizzy afro hair that receded at age 25? That's how folks get redheads when they are both brunettes etc etc etc. Recessive genes may just be your nemesis.

    4.Your Stepford Wife may be great at popping out kids.. or she may be infertile. I will tell you I was at my HOTTEST when I suffered three miscarriages in a row.. because I felt so sad and hurt all I did was work out, buy makeup,dress up in designer clothing and focus on looking awesome etc etc etc I was also a hot mess inside and almost lost my marriage because of it.

    More stuff for your Christmas Eve musings.

    I wish you good luck and I hope your "master plan" serves your children well.

  92. very true deb,

    my mom is only 5 8 or something like that but managed to pop out nothing but 6 ft minimum height guys and one freak of nature 6 ft 5 300 pounder that makes Brock Lesner look normal.

    compatible personalities that make a good loving home might be the most sensible primary goal.

    btw glad blondie did not work out …. happy your still around :)

  93. Chief, I think things differ in a tribal environment where you have many people working together. As far as how the rest of us live it feels like you have to choose, or rather, just follow the path life takes you. I think children, having babies that is, is parasatic to a woman because they are creatures that draw upon our physical and emotional resources. I really can't comment further on this because truth be told I'm just not interested in raising children, there's so much other stuff I can do with my time. While I enjoy their company and like them a lot (and the feeling is mutual, kids like other kids!) they are a 24-hour job…if the women you speak of can excel in their art or purpose they must be receiving some help, or their children are grown. This is my idea though.

    As far as business goes, this varies from person to person obviously. What I see on an everyday basis is people violating simple principles you find in Marketing 101, they have no business plan, don't know how to advertise, have limited knowledge of social marketing, public relations, etc. I've trained and continue to train in these disciplines and my resume is stacked…either you respect it or you don't. If it's your business I really don't care what you do, but if I invest capital or man-hours you best believe I'll be having my say. It's funny though, you asked that question, and it was kind of hard to answer because I usually get my way. And I wouldn't dump you babe, unless you started boring me ;-) The philosopher's mind is the sexiest thing on this planet.

  94. Holy fuck no!

    I wrote a friggin long comment about this topic which I really put some effort in and now it's gone.
    Stupid Christmas!

  95. "I think children, having babies that is, is parasatic to a woman because they are creatures that draw upon our physical and emotional resources."


  96. i kind of figured you did tend to get your way judging by the ideas in your comments perhaps due to choice of man. wouldn't that be woman-hours you put in ? :P we would not make it very far as I don't have those breastassisses to fed the pesky parasites I do eventually want. Besides what's the good in acquiring all the money if It can't buy my happiness. my happiest time was being an insta-dad for a few years lol

    yes help is something they do have like the old african proverb…it takes a village to raise a child. :)
    my friend's wife for instance has the house so organized her 3 and 4 year old require little besides a watchful eye. she has just decided to either go back to school to knowledge up or "pop another one out" because she said she is bored now that they are older.

  97. Jenny nipper ,
    we had a little discussion on bread a few "whatevers" ago. I seem to remember eating some homemade from the store bread many years ago. It was near crack/MSG addiction worthy. tried to find some in my fat gaining quest but i just found a bunch of blah…eat it cuz it's there in front of me style lol

    my question is where in your neck of the woods would I obtain this mythical "Crack bread" you spoke of?

  98. Body height isn't determined by the genes. Look at the dutch people. Hundret years ago they were the smallest people in europe. Today they are the tallest nation in the world- they are 185cm on average. Height is determined by the environment, mainly (prenatal) nutrition and hormones.
    They same is true for most other things you think are caused by genes.

  99. Jannis: so if I get a red head it is due to environment, nutrtion and hormones. Hmmm. And my daughter has the Chinese shaped eyes and thick dark hair because of that too? Wow, I did not know that (slaps forehead).

    Chief: you will be a super daddy one day, just keep on dating the ladies, it's a numbers name in some respects. Gotta kiss a lot of frogs. Just don't marry one. Oops, now I sound like someone else here. :)

    Kash: Better that you don't have kids if you think of them as parasites. Yikes. Parenthood is not for everyone of course.

    Merry Freakin' Christmas Beyotchs of 180!

  100. Hey TGRaham.

    I saw in a past comment you thought that digestive enzymes with senna in it helped fix your colon? How could this be though? Doesnt senna normally cause dependency, and eventually a slow/unresponsive colon? Do you still use them?

    Also, how many cals had you been eating doing the RRARF.

    I have been eating 3000 cals most days of the week, with one o two days where I eat a little less for a break. I dont know if it just isnt enough to kick things into gear or what….

  101. I didn't say that genes don't matter at all, but their influence is much smaller than most people think. And also genes are influenced and altered by the environment at any time in your life. Of course genes determine some physical "traits" but to say that they can't be altered, or that things like intelligence, height or diseases are determined by unfluctuating genes is racist and stupid and has nothing to do with reality.
    By the way, me and my brother both have blond hair. My parents both have black hair…
    And not only chinese people have shaped eyes. In fact, a lot of them don't. Eskimos also have shaped eyes. Does that mean that the chinese descend from eskimos?
    How do you explain that traditional living tribes have no cancer or diabetis? The explanation that cancer is caused by certain genes is bullshit. It is caused by a damaged metabolism as probably any other disease.

  102. I am trying not to feel that you have just called me racist and stupid.
    Really trying.

  103. For Debbie, Chief and whoever else was offended by my comment about children being parasites…the very definition of a parasite is another living organism (fetus) living off a host (mother) drawing from her resources and strength. I didn't mean it negatively and there's no need for any emotional reactions or judgment.


    I wasn't actually offended lol thought it was bit peculiar so i went with it in my oddball way didn't mean for it to make my tone sound mean :P there is lot of things in nature that depend on each other as a parasite.
    I have heard similar views before in regards to children, but its rare the biological clock can be kept at bay for long :)

    worry not joanie kash Im not easily offended

  105. That would be the furthest thing from my thoughts! I only said that the dogma you believe in is racist and stupid.

  106. haha @ janis. I love people who say it like it is according to what they believe…by the way I think your convo about genes is pretty stupid, not one side in particular, but the whole damn thing, cause genes are so random…

    chief…what do you mean "it's rare the biological clock can be kept at bay for long" along with one of these! —-> :-)

  107. kash, :) :) i like smilies i should have used one after parasites
    I've learned a lot of pretty buried knowledge listening really closely to alot of" really old f..kers " stuff you can not learn in any school.
    let's just say i know how to unlock things :)
    so Im pretty sure about my last statement.

  108. What, you know something I don't? I'd love to hang out with some old people from your culture, I find each culture has some secrets…

    I'm trying to figure out what you mean though…you saying I'm keeping my bio clock at bay? That one day I'll wake up with an insatiable urge to procreate? That I'll be like Kim Kardashian on the cover of this supermarket rag I saw with her saying 'I thought I'd be married by now' – aaaaaahahaha! NOT IN THIS LIFETIME!!!

  109. That was a stellar post Matt, and great discussion too.

    I definitely lost my weight obsession somewhere along the course of the HED. I think the major turning point was when – after my face had really swollen up a lot after gaining 50 pounds in 3 months of overeating and I was getting sort of discouraged by how bad I looked – my looks actually started to improve as I pushed on with the overfeeding. The swelling on my inner cheeks subsided and my eyes got this gleam to them. Even though in a way my face was still getting rounder, I was simultaneously losing the "piggish" aspect and getting a more rugged masculine and vigorous look.

    Thats when it dawned on me that when it comes to appearance, total body fat really is of less importance than being well-nourished and having your hormones in balance, due to the effects on levels of edema, muscle tone of the facial muscles, and even fat distribution to some extent, and that the only way to achieve hormonal balance is to not deprive yourself and constantly stress out about exercising or optimizing ones diet.

    I mean, I'm not over the concern with how I look by any means, but it helped immensely to realize that physical appearance depends so crucially on metabolic health, psychological well-being and playing along completely. with your body, and that weight really isn't the issue at all.

  110. Hey Kash
    Just saying that the word has some sort of not so great connotations. And like I said (and you said) not everyone wants to be a parent.
    As for Jannis, I think you are really insulting and it is unnecessary. I don't believe any dogma, I believe in my life experience. So I suppose you think THAT is stupid and racist too. Whatever dude, whatever. If this is your idea of humor then I just am not getting the joke.

  111. and by the way Jannis, what are you a student of?

  112. "Correction, that's the truth according to Kirk, and it sounds like your ego, rather than testosterone is running your life.

    My experience tells me that men find me much more attractive when I'm confident and achieving things and doing something with my life, rather than obsessing over what I look like. Case in point is the time in my life before I got into this health and wellness game, before I started obsessing over my body. I was much less 'attractive' according to media standards and honestly cared more about my music, traveling and having a good time than what I looked like. I used to crop my hair super short, wear baggy clothes (army pants was my uniform) and weighed a lot more than I do now. I had all kinds of guys interested in me. I'm not the only one, girls in my crew had the same experience.

    Kirk, you need a reality check, but I'm going to let your comments slide for now, cause for all I know you could be 17 years old with only webcam girls on demand forming your experience. And if you're not, it's best you not say anything further at this point, I feel sorry enough for you as is."

    Just lol at this. Correction, only according to me? I said it was according to me, dimwit. Did I say men want women who obsess over what they look like? That we want "media standards" looks? That we want women with no confidence? Read people's posts before you reply and insult them. You're going to let my comments slide, and MY ego is running my life? I said I'm attracted to submissive women with great looks (by my standards) because testosterone is running my life (said in jest). Look up self-deprecation.

    And I challenge you to find a man here who disagrees with what I said.

    With these comments, please feel more sorry for me and make some more judgments and comments. I look forward to your insights, as you seem to have developed great social intuition since you were a wee parasite.

  113. Janis said:

    "I wouldn't want a partner who thinks that genetics are responsible for physical characteristics like you mentioned, since that person is probably not very intelligent and not even capable of interpreting very simple empirical findings.
    But you might have other advantages…"

    Genetics have a lot to do with fitness and health. Heterozygosity being a perfect example.

    True, poor diet has a lot to do with it too.

    Debbie said:

    "2. You can be gorgeous, both parents perfect in every way and STILL get an off gene, a downs syndrome Jerry's Kid or some other issue. There is still No way to control that, short of an amniocentesis and then a late term abortion. Now there's a good time."

    Chances are if your parents are good looking (good looks are closely associated with genetic fitness), you will be too.

    "3. What about the family history? How do you know if Grandpa Vladimir was a dwarf? Or Aunt June had kinky frizzy afro hair that receded at age 25? That's how folks get redheads when they are both brunettes etc etc etc. Recessive genes may just be your nemesis."

    Chances are, if I have a baby with a good looking woman, she will have more genetic fitness than if I have a baby with a woman who is not good looking. This is supported by ample empirical data.

    "4.Your Stepford Wife…"

    Come on now, I never said personality was not a factor. If I can't find a mate that is both good looking and fun to be around I will never have children. And considering how overpopulated the globe is, this approach is doing the world a favor.

    "… may be great at popping out kids.. or she may be infertile."

    Speaking of which, studies indicate that men find fertile women more attractive. Ovulating strippers who are not on birth control consistently make more money than other strippers.

    "I wish you good luck and I hope your "master plan" serves your children well."

    I dont' really have a 'master plan', I just don't want to have children unless I find the perfect mate. Nothing wrong with that.

  114. "Body height isn't determined by the genes. Look at the dutch people. Hundret years ago they were the smallest people in europe. Today they are the tallest nation in the world- they are 185cm on average. Height is determined by the environment, mainly (prenatal) nutrition and hormones.
    They same is true for most other things you think are caused by genes."

    Height is HEAVILY influenced by genes, as are many other things. Of course good nutrition can improve offspring health. That does not mean I have an obligation to have a baby with a woman I don't find physically attractive.

  115. Kash ,yep i search out cool old peeps everywhere I go this really wrinkly italian guy taught me some stuff about planting crops ( via translator).
    (note to self learn more languages…)

    I've seen an old dude that doesn't speak any english, lives all isolated 500 miles from the nearest highway never seen a Tv or Book but somehow could perfectly describe all the planets how they revolve around the sun, the earth is round, quantum physics and all kinds of shit and they say natives were primitive…

    old people know some shit. :)

  116. Debbie, you have fooled yourself into thinking people breed because they love children. If people just loved children, they would adopt.

    Procreation is one of the most selfish things a couple of individuals can do. Think about it. You have a baby to pass on your genes. Just a part of the evolutionary arms race.

    That's why I think it is more virtuous to have a child with a beautiful person. That way, instead of procreating for the sake of evolution alone, you procreate aesthetics and art. Combining genes is an art like combining colors on a palette.

  117. Gabriel, ovulating strippers argument … awesomeness lol

    I wonder if it is the direct result of the male attraction or the women trying harder or feeling sexier because I read some where that women tend to automatically show more skin ( scantly dressed) during ovulation. i would say that would suggest they are subconsciously trying harder.

  118. I am so glad that I found out today that I am
    1. Stupid
    2. Racist
    3. Dogmatic
    4. A selfish breeder
    5. Most likely not attractive enough to avoid miscarriages/infertility.
    6. Which could have been caused by my husband not being attractive enough to have good genetics/fertility.

    and various other bizarre and dazzling gems.

    Wow, I learn a lot here.

  119. Ok I checked the calendar and it is not April 1st so I guess Gabriel and Jannis are actually serious.
    To be honest, at first I thought you were both joking.

    Also, I have had a revelation. As my father and his mother both had leukemia, the real reason I now have it is only because I am so short and ugly. I can only pray that my daughter is tall enough and pretty enough not to inherit my shitty genetics.

    It all makes sense now.

  120. kirk: this is the internet, people read things as they seem them, i.e. literally. as for the rest of your post, I'm not even going to bother.

    chief: i saw the 7billion population issue of national geographic a friend left here just now. there was a picture of babies in the hospital room and i felt a strange feeling in my solar plexus. then, as I was straightening my hair getting ready for a party I was supposed to be at 23 minutes ago, I started crying. seriously. i don't take people on the internet seriously because they don't seem real to me, but sometimes it seems like it's the word of god being passed to me through this medium. well anyway i got to run, you have a great holiday and take care, I'm sure you'll find what you're looking for…i can't really tell from your picture cause it's kind of fuzzy but you look pretty fucking hot to me. best of luck.

  121. Erika, I totally agree with you. If I had read this blog post 5 years ago my life would look so different…I've messed myself up so bad in the name of health….

    "You should never allow yourself to feel deprived of something so easily under your control as the food you eat…."

    It just kind of makes me feel low cause I'm stuck in such a super restrained diet. Allergies and joint issues are cutting out just about everything on the menu for me. I feel really stuck in it. I wish I had dietary freedom. I really do. But I couldn't be much more restricted. At least I can eat carbs again. That's a plus. But basically all i eat now is white rice, veggies, egg whites and salmon, and some of my home made bread when I have the energy to bake it. That's it. Everything else seems to make me feel worse.

    "But most importantly, no matter who you are you must swear above all else that you will never betray yourself with self-deprecating thoughts."

    There is so much wisdom in your words. It's just so difficult for me to do this. I've got so much negative thinking going on automatically without even being aware of it. It's something I've worked on for years trying to improve on.

  122. Chief:

    There are other indicators. Ovulating women tend to have more flushed skin, warmer, their labia are more swollen, their nipples are too.

    It is easy to see how a strip club would be the perfect place to cruise for fertile women.

    But even when clothed, scantily or non, there are indicators.

    Women tend to be more flirtatious when they are ovulating also. And more likely to reach orgasm.

    You may know all this stuff already.

    Part of female reproductive strategy is cryptic ovulation. If you can develop a sense of indicators it gives you an advantage.

  123. Chief:

    There are other indicators. Ovulating women tend to have more flushed skin, warmer, their labia are more swollen, their nipples are too.

    It is easy to see how a strip club would be the perfect place to cruise for fertile women.

    But even when clothed, scantily or non, there are indicators.

    Women tend to be more flirtatious when they are ovulating also. And more likely to reach orgasm.

    You may know all this stuff already.

    Part of female reproductive strategy is cryptic ovulation. If you can develop a sense of indicators it gives you an advantage.

  124. I can summarize Matt's post:

    1. Dieting and maintaining an ideal physique may be dangerous.
    2. An attractive appearance isn't permanent. Attractive women do get old and become unattractive. So focus more on other stuff other than appearance.
    3. There's no reason for a women to obsess on her appearance because she will eventually grow old and there are plenty of other ways to be "accepted" by society.
    4. Attractiveness depends on how society "values" an individual.
    5. Matt Stone said that Orianthi will remain "desirable" even though she could gain 50 pounds. However, I don't think what he meant is how sexually arousing Orianthi is. Women like rich men and men who can sing good. But this isn't the case for men. How rich a woman is or how good she sings DO NOT affect how a man would be attracted to her. Status is NOT a factor of attraction for men. So Matt probably meant that Orianthi is more "desirable" for a LONG-TERM RELATIONSHIP than any supermodel.

    Gabriel presumably agreed with all of your points, except point 4. What Gabriel is disputing is point 4.

    Gabriel, you're right. Don't listen to Jannis or Debbie. They misunderstood your position.

    What Gabriel said is that our preference for tall people and those who have symmetrical faces are a preference that was evolved during the Pleistocene. Height and facial symmetry are indicators of health during the Pleistocene. I, too, find short women ugly, if everything else is equal.

    Women prefer men who are tall, who have broad shoulders, who are muscular, and who have a symmetrical face. Those features indicate that they're healthy and can provide good genes for the offspring. In addition, women are attracted to confident and powerful men. Men who have a good voice turns also women on. Women are attracted to male singers more than any other kind of musician because a resonating, confident voice is a huge turn on for them. The reverse is not true; you don't see many males idolizing female singers.

    Men are aroused by healthy women. For example, women who have full lips, uprights breasts, shiny hair, smooth skin, and firm buttocks. Clear skin, shiny hair, and full lips indicate that her thyroid is functioning properly. A well-functioning thyroid means that she has the resources to develop a child.

    Men are aroused by submissive and shy women. Jewelry such as earrings and bracelets symbolize submission. Earrings resemble "ear tags" on livestock. Bracelets symbolize handcuffs. Ankle bracelets symbolize shackles. Therefore, men are attracted to women who such jewelry because they symbolize submission. Strappy sandals are another article of clothing which suggest that their feet is "bound" to their shoes.

    Men are aroused by women weaker than themselves. Most men have a fantasy of dominating women sexually, and weak women can be dominated easily.

    Some men have like anorexic women only because they are weak and can be easily dominated. Those men are probably skinny too and insecure about their strength.

    But a little bit of muscle indicates that she is healthy, so muscular women can be a turn on for men.

    Promiscuous women are somewhat a turn off, because the more promiscuous she is, the less the man is certain that her offspring is his. Therefore, he would be reluctant to raise and protect the offspring of promiscuous women.

    Men are also attracted to women who fidget a lot. e.g. Women who play with their hair, and who dangle their shoes. Fidgeting is an indicator of a fast metabolism. So men are attracted to women who fidget a lot.

    Those features are good indicators genetic fitness DURING THE PLEISTOCENE. We still have genes which evolved during the Pleistocene, so that's how we're still aroused by good looks even though it isn't necessarily an indicator of good health in our modern industrial society.

    Gabriel, you're right. Don't let Jannis or Debbie hypnotize you by their strawmans.

  125. Women are misconceived of what men want women to wear. Women think that men are attracted to high-status or rich women. So they buy expensive clothing, designer-brand shoes, gold/silver jewelry, and expensive purses. While in fact, cheap clothing would just work the same.

    Women don't need to buy expensive clothing. A simple form-fitting shirt or dress would work. Women don't need to buy canvas sneakers from designer-brands such as Converse, Keds, or Vans. Any cheap canvas sneaker would do. Women don't need to buy those expensive leather pumps. Any cheap plastic pump will do the same. Women don't need to buy those expensive silver bracelets to turn men on. A steel bracelet would just do the same.

    Women are spending way too much money on things that men don't care about. They should spend more time taking care of their bodies and physical appearance rather than clothes.

  126. I sense that some people think that men have some sort of obligation to not take looks into consideration when choosing a mate.

    But my attraction to certain women goes beyond just reproductive strategies.

    I am also as stated before an aficianado of human form, and sexually the female form.

    Nothing wrong with being beautiful, seeking beauty, seeking to increase beauty. Dancers train hard to be beautiful and there is nothing bad about that.

    Certainly many women overtrain and under eat, (dancers included) and they are naive to think that they will be more beautiful the thinner they are.

  127. yea i did … we are the only species that has that cryptic signaling … helps with pair bonding ..and of course makes it hard to refute the maury show standard move " it's your baby! "

  128. Organism as a whole,

    this is perhaps the weirdest comment in the whole thread of comments up to this point

    you said …"Men are aroused by submissive and shy women. Jewelry such as earrings and bracelets symbolize submission. Earrings resemble "ear tags" on livestock."

    What.the… ? ? I don't remotely understand the logic of this thought if anything jewelry is a status symbol……plus livestock lol? really ? wtf?
    i can say without a doubt im not into cow cuddling or owning a "pet" woman. you gonna scare all the 180 ladies with the quasi serial killer vibe there..

    just some constructive criticism

    i disagree with you thoughts on voice … jewel, alecia keys, beyonce. maria carey, leona lewis with voice alone could come over for a lul a bye …jewel has pretty gnarly teeth but with that voice I would quickly forget…. they could all gain weight n keep me interested cuz they are interesting people …. well maybe not maria lol

  129. I feel like I am on 180 degree porn.
    Not interested in OAW bizarre summary.
    Not interested in Gabriel's odd theories.
    Just not interested.
    Guess we are even then.

  130. Thanks for chiming in Organism.

    I agree, male-female physical attraction is very fertility dependent.

    The spell of fertility can be broken I can attest. For instance I do like some older women, who are less fertile (but still fertile). Basically what it comes down to is yes probably endocrine functioning as you said.

    Women should be body conscious and there is nothign wrong with that. Fitness is good. i like women who lift and eat right and don't starve themselves.

  131. And also Organism, I am not aroused by weak women at all, but yes it would be weird if I dated some female powerlifter who could crush me or a heavyweight MMA woman or something.

  132. Excuse me Gabriel but who gives a rats ass what arouses you?
    Get over yourself already. It's probably why you are alone and childless thus far IMO.

  133. Lol. This discussion is weird ut awesome. Keep it up!

    Unfortunately, I'm pressed on time, so I can't really post my whole take on this, but I still wanted to say a few things:

    "I am so glad that I found out today that I am
    1. Stupid
    2. Racist
    3. Dogmatic
    4. A selfish breeder
    5. Most likely not attractive enough to avoid miscarriages/infertility.
    6. Which could have been caused by my husband not being attractive enough to have good genetics/fertility.

    and various other bizarre and dazzling gems.

    Wow, I learn a lot here."

    Merry Christmas, I suppose.
    No, honestly, I can understand that you are quite pissed, but I also think you are taking this a bit personal. Just say fuck it and don't let some stupid discussion at the 180 comment board ruin your mood. :-)

    Also, I have to agree that that whole genetic thing is stupid and a waste of time. Human beings as any other animal are naturally attracted to good genes and factors that better the chances of having healthy offspring anyways. So why even bother to consciously try to manipulate it? That sounds a bit like mating-orthorexia to me. Instead of thinking "Has this mate good genes/Is this food healthy?" just trust your fucking body and role with whatever you find personally attractive.

    Also, Gabriel I agree that there's nothing wrong with appreciating beauty.
    In fact I think we have to differenciate here. Valuing physical attractiveness is not a bad thing on it's own in my opinion. I just think most people do so for the wrong reason, because of low self-esteem. I think there are a lot of people out there who think that dating an attractive partner will others and most importantly themselves respect them more. But as Matt kinda elaborated, I think this is bound to fail as long as you do not possess some other qualities in which case you probably wouldn't even have self-esteem issues to begin with.

    Also, I agree with Organism that men probably don't really care about what women wear and whether she wears designer clothes or not.
    In my opinion women do this just like men do with muscularity for example, to rise up in the pecking order within her gender. And also probably because they think that because they are attracted by fashion, men are too. Just like men might think that women are greatly attracted by physical beauty, because they are are too.

  134. Gabriel's comments have given me insight into what my clients (eating disorder) are dealing with out there in the world of dating and mating. Women who look so incredibly beautiful yet hate their bodies and their lives and feel they can never be quite good enough.

    Interestingly enough on ones death bed- the one place we all go-
    the 6 pack abs, body fat composition or ones height matter not.

    Matt this was an amazing post, and may Iz be remembered for his incredible voice, wisdom and huge heart.

    Deb, great job with your daughter, she is blessed to have such an aware mom!!!

    Linda Bacon is doing incredibly important work and I hope she gets a good amount of support from this post.

    Mele Kalikimaka and Aloha~

  135. Matt wrote, "[F]orm a pact with yourself, make a conscious effort to avoid feelings of guilt, shame, and remorse in all things in life but most importantly your … food choices."

    No feelings of guilt or shame, and eat anything. Right. This year, I resolve to be more like Hannibal Lecter! :)

  136. Debbie, I could have settled down and had children, have had many opportunities to. I didn't because I chose not to.

    Having children is not the be all end all culmination of my life. In case you haven't noticed, the world is a tad overpopulated, so if I die alone without children that is no great loss.

    My life is about more than just having kids. And i am not afraid of being alone.

    Maybe you and others should get over their selves and come to the realization that the world doesn't need you to procreate.

  137. Chief said,

    "I've seen an old dude that doesn't speak any english, lives all isolated 500 miles from the nearest highway never seen a Tv or Book but somehow could perfectly describe all the planets how they revolve around the sun, the earth is round, quantum physics and all kinds of shit and they say natives were primitive… "

    What did he know about quantum mechanics? I ask because quantum mechanics is one of my favorite branches of physics, and I think it would be pretty darn cool if he actually did have an accurate view/description of quantum theory without having ever "seen a book."

  138. Oh, and the discussion is entertaining but it is scary how self centered some of the comments are.

    And the world is not "overpopulated." The current problems in the world are not so much a consequence of population size, but are rather a result of cultural, political and economic issues. (Actually, the root is culture, because politics and economics are a consequence of a societies culture, especially in the long run.)

    Sorry, I don't intend to distract people from the actual discussion, it's just that the appeal to "overpopulation" in just about any context is a pet peeve of mine because it usually misses the point. It is generally more of a red herring than anything, although there are certain contexts and geophysical areas in which the concept is indeed valid.

    Enough from me. Carry on!

    Merry Christmas to all!

  139. @Gabriel

    Seems you are the selfish one. It sounds like you are more not willing to give of yourself. If you were truly unselfish, you would settle down and adopt, like you are preaching. But hey, you don't want to waste your time.

    Keep these kind of opinions to yourself. You sound stupid.

  140. Organism as a Whole,

    You have just given us the best comment in the history of this blog. I am serious. That was awesome!

  141. I'm a 44YO female and I'm sorry but I find slim males and females more attractive, and, if we are being really honest here, I am put off by the looks of people overweight more than 25 pounds or so, which would make it hard to mate with them.

    Here's the rub. I gained 25+ on HED, so I wouldn't even date myself right now. Oh Matt, please keep working hard to make all of us who got fat on HED forget about our looks! :) ~SMG

  142. beauty is in the eye of the perceiver.

  143. Not to mention that the act of sex itself is not as fun with overweight women. They are not as mobile and active in bed.


    I am the selfish one? I am poor. Understand? I have no career, no money. Of course I am not going to settle down and adopt.


    Okay, well I won't disagree that there are enough resources to feed house and clothe everyone. Let me reword:

    There is an abundance of orphans int he world. Why breed then?

  144. After thinking about it yesterday, I changed my mind. The statement "I like women weaker than me" is false. I find many women who are taller and more muscular than me attractive.

    The rest of my positions remain unchanged, including the statement that "earrings resemble 'ear tags'".

  145. Beautiful, beautiful post Matt!
    I like where you are heading!
    Loving the comment section as well.

    I believe it was Chief who wrote:

    "sometimes being ignorant has its benefits"

    This statement is so true! I see it all the time -and I talk from own experience. I really believe it's kind of a blessing, being "less aware". The more knowledgeable and aware I have become over the years, the more troubled my mind has gotten. It's the reason why I love children so much! They have no worries, they listen to their bodies, sleep when tired, eat when hungry, cry when sad and smile when happy! Oh, how I sometimes long for those years.. ;-)
    I get frustrated when talking to people who are very superficial, people who don´t think very deep. But in the end, they are contend with being ignorant -they are not even aware that they are "unaware"! In the end, I am the one having a problem -not them Not sure if you get what I am saying (I´m not even sure I get it myself, lol)?
    I am just so deep I often get lost myself.

    My thoughts on the whole "attraction" discussion is, I believe that beauty is in the eye of the beholder and personally, I also choose the intelligent, confident, funny man that knows WHEN to be tough and when to be soft, over the Calvin Klein model who has nothing to bring to the table. I've dated both end of the spectrum and I would choose the guy with a lot of depth anytime, over the hunk with nothing in his "trunk" -that even goes for a one nighter! Sex is much more than physical attraction.
    People might say; But Sheila, don't tell me that IRL you would show your stamp collection to the ugly duckling?! Well, the chances are, an unattractive guy with intelligence, quick wit and lots of confidence, approaching me, are very small.. The reason for that is, most physical unattractive men does not have the confidence to show me HOW intelligent, funny and deep they are. It's kind of a self fulfilling prophecy.

  146. What the hell happened to this blog? Isn't it supposed to be centered around developing nutrition knowledge to improve health? All this crap about loving yourself and eating whatever and not exercising if you don't like it is annoying and unscientific. It's turned from a great resource of personal stories (a lot of them Matt's) and experimentation to a freaking cult group that jumps on a new poorly supported book-based "revolutionary" theory every post (this doesn't seem to be Matt's purpose though). The girls make chirpy and fluffy comments while asking questions that have mostly already been answered, and Chief just spits out all his random "philosophical" theories that usually have little to no biological support. Bruce/Ian was a little manic, but at least his comments attempted to further the "community's" knowledge. There are other good commenters that have disappeared too.

  147. As they say "ignorance is bliss." I'm finding more and more that it is true that a little knowledge can be a dangerous thing. It definitely can increase stress. It's funny how, while you sometimes need to put thought into something, you have to be careful not to "over think" things.

  148. TOMMY-

    I totally agree. I don't just "over think" things, I pick the thoughts apart, into tiny little unrecognizable pieces, until I eventually get scared of myself and snap out of it!

  149. John,
    I agree with you that the comments on the blog are no longer about health and nutrition. Much if the commentary has deteriorated into fluff and this is why I stopped commenting for so long. Matt can save his blog, but he will probably have to create some sort of forum so that there can be an off topic fluff area. I think this will be the only way to save his blog.

    Matt has grown intellectually and I don't think Matt believes all the stuff about overeating and no exercise for optimal health anymore. The sad thing is that even though he has moved forward, his followers are still doing it even though they are gaining more unwanted weight and feeling more depressed and unhealthy. Hopefully they will take Matt's lead and move forward as well.

    Also, this commentary was not all bad. Like I mentioned above, Organism gave us the greatest comment ever on this blog.

  150. JT and JOHN-

    I see what you are saying BUT you are missing the big picture! Health is not ONLY nutrition! You can have a person following the right nutrition, down to a T and STILL feel more misery than the person eating junk on a regular basis. It's about balance -this is truly what the healthy body is seeking and this is exactly what Matt is providing -BALANCE!
    Nutrition is only one part of the puzzle and to claim anything else is closing your eyes to the bigger picture (which can have it's benefits as well as closing your eyes to "the right nutrition")!

    Ignorance CAN be bliss, so if this is too much load on your system, simply close your eyes and stick to pure nutrition.

  151. Matt, I applaud you. I for one love the way the blog has evolved. This was a well-written and inspiring post about a topic of MASSIVE importance in this day and age, where low self-esteem and total distrust of our bodies' cues are rampant. Sure I'm willing to accept that our attraction to healthy, slim bodies is well-founded and logical, but the cultural obsession with (women's) over-thinness disgusts me. My sister for example has a stunning face and a perfect woman's figure, but she feels pressure from Heidi Montag-type media images to lose weight and look like one of the skinny models. My mum also has a mild eating disorder and exists on salads and weight loss shakes, so basically I'm surrounded by brainwashed women who have no idea how beautiful their bodies naturally are!!! I often contemplate all the amazing things we could channel our energy into if we weren't constantly fixated on dieting, weight loss and unnatural thinness….

    Right now I have a bit of a girl-crush on Daisy Lowe (no, I'm not her :P ) who's a UK model often commended for her 'curvy' figure. She's refused to lose weight despite pressure from modelling agencies – and thank God she has, because she looks gorgeous, yet by media standards she's probably considered fat just because her womanly assets are still intact. That's what is really messed up about our cultural standards of beauty. http://images.fashionmodeldirectory.com/model/000000183560-daisy_lowe-fullsize.jpg

  152. Sheila,
    You misunderstood my comment. I agree with Matt that there is more to health than just nutrition. Read my previous posts and see how i was attacked for telling his followers to move beyond their diet obsessions. I have already moved past the belief that diet is everything.

    The critique was of the commentary and how it is not a healthy debate concerning health anymore.

  153. Deb wrote: "Oh and my first husband? You mean the tall blond perfect body surfer/karate expert with blue eyes and a killer smile who was so amazing to me while we were dating?"

    OMG Deb, you were married to Johnny from Karate Kid?! That abusive, bullying doink.

    But seriously, I'm so glad you got out of that situation and into a great marriage.

    Matt: excellent, meaningful, touching, awesome and TRUE post. The comments go seriously off the rails — as usual — but the post was fantastic.


    I am already into Chris Masterjohn -he has some awesome articles!
    But thanks for your concern! It's much appreciated.

  155. Annabelle, yep Johnny Lawrence was my first husband. :)
    I got out of there in the nick of time.. and having now listened to Jon Gabriel, he literally was the tiger chasing me and I was 'this close' to not getting free.

  156. Hey Matt,

    I just wanted to tell you that, seriously, and deeply, I am so so so thankful for you. It's been about a year since I found your blog and I feel as though I've been on a journey! I've been seeking answers for years, but really started searching hard the past year.

    I have always been a "big ole tall girl' my whole life( I was a head taller than my 5th grade teacher), and already had body issues. I was somewhat surprised when the man that is my husband (named Matt incidentally) was interested in me. Wasn't I supposed to get thin first before a man would take a second glance at me? Just real quick, I did diet down 30+ plans after marriage, but as soon as I became pregnant and morning sickness came, the diet was out. Since then I've NEVER been able to lose the weight- no matter what diet I did- and have added 4 more pregnancies since that one. It's been a huge battle for me- many tears and lots of lost time feeling ashamed and like a failure and like people are judging me or something.

    My last diet experience has really opened my eyes. I paid someone to help me do a hair analysis, design a diet based on the findings etc. and not only did I NOT lose weight, I had no real health improvements either. I did have LOADS of stress about the diet, my 4 little ones, my finances etc.

    I ditched it. I eat what I feel I need to, and I think might have lost a bit of weight :) Mostly I am having a lot more fun, learning more about accepting myself etc. I do plan to get more serious with what I eat soon, as far as making nutritious food, but the stressing over perfection is gonna have to stop.

    Your blog and your work has truly been an answer to my prayers and you have my heartfelt thanks. Almost every time I'm needing something, some encouragement or help or whatever, you always have it! Are you in my head??LOL..

    Anyways, thanks big HUGE time.

    Jessica in Texas

  157. Hey Matt, I got the results of a stool analysis back and was wondering if you would be willing to check it out and make any comments for me? Would it be possible to shoot you an e-mail??

  158. Jessica:
    Good for you! I too have taken a dose of fukitol and got into some pretty slim jeans today. Hate to say it, but that really made my day a bit brighter.

    I just finally got into Jon Gabriel and digging his advice/ideas too.

    Matt, I love you man, thanks for this post and all your good mojo.

  159. Chief:

    Jenny nipper ,
    we had a little discussion on bread a few "whatevers" ago. I seem to remember eating some homemade from the store bread many years ago. It was near crack/MSG addiction worthy. tried to find some in my fat gaining quest but i just found a bunch of blah…eat it cuz it's there in front of me style lol

    my question is where in your neck of the woods would I obtain this mythical "Crack bread" you spoke of?

    Hmmm, not sure I remember the convo, but my favorite bread is from Great Harvest. It's fresh ground wheat, very simple straight-forward bread. Ah-mazing toast. New French white sandwhich bread with butter is crack-like and amazing. Also their baguette too. If I were gonna eat white bread that's what I'd go for. Hope this helps.

    Hope everyone has been eating the food this Christmas. Madmuh, I've boiled mashed and put them in a stew!

  160. I love how whenever we have the old attractiveness debate the weirdest shit comes out. Earrings and bracelets attract men because it reminds them of bondage. So true. I mean the last time someone held me captives by my ear lobes, it was so hot. Why would a submissive mate be desireable anyway? Would she better at birthing babies? Makes no sense. Men have been absolutely programmed the same way women have to pick a certain set of sex characteristics. It goes through phases of popularity every twenty years or so. Look at porn throughout the ages. It varies pretty radically over time. Often it has to do with with wealth. I can afford the outrageous corset and set of hip padding gowns to give me this extreme figure translates it into Demi Moore and the like having vast hunks of flesh cut off and rescultped, etc by the finest surgeons. Hilarious ideas about the pleistocene, though, keep em coming. Good for a laugh.

  161. These shallow people wouldn't need half the plastic surgery if they just exercised, melted the fat off, and showed their naturally beautiful shapely face. Instead they develop second chins and get plastic surgery to change their physical appearance. It should be the surgeon's responsibility to show the person what their face would look like if they just would lower their bodyfat. There's nothing more annoying than someone who is majorly insecure about their physical appearance.

  162. [quote]Earrings and bracelets attract men because it reminds them of bondage.[\quote]

    No, women wear earrings, bracelets and necklaces because those areas (ears, wrists, neck) are erogenous zones.

    @StrainingPooper: When I asked Matt for a stool analysis all he said was, "Yes, your shit DOES stink." :) :)

  163. "Why would a submissive mate be desireable anyway? Would she better at birthing babies? Makes no sense."

    I believe it's quite simple: men who want a submissive mate have serious control issues.


  164. on what planet is Daisy Lowe full figured? she's a bean pole!

  165. on what planet is Daisy Lowe full figured? she's a bean pole!

  166. Well everything looks good on my CSA except I have zero bifidobacter growth, and +4 for Saccharomyces cerevisiae/boulardi. I know that candida ovegrowth is bad, but what about these species. I think I have so much of them it is making it hard for any bifido to colonize.

  167. And a book I read called digestive wellness (pretty good read) said that the bifido species can help regulate peristalsis, and over growth of yeast can causes spastic colon/constipaion.

  168. What attracts one person to another is so complex, it's a bit funny to think that it can be sorted out in the comments section of a blog. But I guess it's fun to watch people try, especially when they bring the Pleistocene era and bondage into play.

    If you were to look at my relationship and the "roles" we have, I would be the "daddy". I work longer hours, I earn far more money, my job is of higher status, etc.

    The fact that I'm ambitious, work-wise, has nothing to do with the fact that I'm manly or masculine and everything to do with the way that I was raised. I saw my mother struggle because she was reliant on my father as her main source of money (which was a dead-end road, as my father was terrible with money). As a result, we were near poverty for my whole life and my mother was left with absolutely nothing when they split up.

    This left a huge impression on me. The relationship between my parents has probably played the largest role in how I choose men and what I'm attracted to.

    What's written into our DNA from thousands of years ago plays a very small role, indeed. Sure, I doubt broad shoulders on a man will ever go out of style and men will always love tits (big or small), but I think the most important factors are ones that happen during our lifetime, particularly in early childhood: what do our parents look like, what were our relationships with our parents like, what was the relationship like between them, did the babysitter look a certain way, did we get spanked as children, did we associate good feelings with a particular person, what did he/she look like, etc. The list goes on and on.

  169. As non-p.c. as it sounded, OAW is pretty spot on on just about every point.
    However, I believe I am often attracted to a woman that is "weaker" not because I can dominate her, but because I have the instinct to guard and take care of her.

    Ladies, dont be offended by these truths; it's not OAW or any man that made this stuff up. It proceeds straight from our DNA and, perhaps, social evolution.
    Can we help it if physical beauty is integral to our attraction to women? Will women be better off if they ignore this attraction?
    I can understand the anger on the ladies' part, because it seems unfair. Women, after all, are more attracted to status and power than they are physical aesthetics.
    But think of it this way;
    just as their is pressure on the woman to be beautiful, there is pressure on the man to be powerful, which is JUST as overwhelming.


  170. Don't, however, mistake this last post for praise of beauty/leanness/even health above all else.
    I still think Matt Stone was right on the money with his post. Yes, there are more important things in this life, perhaps things that are greater contributors to happiness, as well.
    However, an unemployed, weak, shy man shouldnt expect to have much of a dating pool at his disposal. Nor should an overweight, blemish-ridden woman. This is not to say that they don't deserve happiness, or that they can't FIND happiness/meaning in life. Because they do and they can. There's just a lot of wishful thinking on one side of this debate, and a lot of crassness/lack of tact on the other.
    – josh

  171. That's just simply not true, Josh. If it were, overweight women would never find men and that just simply isn't the case.

    Guys want to have sex with women, period. And having exaggerated curves has never really stood in the way of that… for me, anyway. Nor have I ever had to lower particular standards in order to find a guy who wanted me. Or felt that a man was lowering his standards in order to be with me. All of my past mates been rather enthusiastic about the whole situation, frankly.

    People hook up with each other. It's what they do. Even fat people. Especially fat people. In my experience, fat women have higher sex drives. A quick scanning of the internet will prove how much fat people like to do it. ;)

    And while we're at it, to imply that people who get into relationships or have sex with fat people only do so because they're desperate or are briefly putting looks aside is also erroneous. There are plenty of guys out there who dig women with extra weight, in particular. They are not with them despite of their bodies, but partially because of them.

    As Matt mentioned, the only thing that keeps them from admitting it is the image of it all — that they don't like the idea of liking something that isn't 'status quo'.

    Ugh… getting sucked into this conversation is really against my better judgment, but I CAN'T HELP IT!!

    What I'm trying to say, in the end, is that there is no blanket statement that can cover "what men want" or "what women want". What each individual wants is based on such a complex matrix of factors, it's silly to try and pin anything down.

  172. Annabelle-

    Don't take this as dismissive, but your answer is a woman's answer. Not wrong, just very one-sided in perspective. Study after study shows that you are very correct if the issue is what FEMALES are attracted to. It actually is more complex. There's Elektra, status, power, media-manipulated standards, upbringing factors (such as yours), etc. \
    However, study after study also shows that MALES are so much simpler in their attraction; most of it being physical. Waist-to-hips ratio, lip fullness, breast shape, etc. This is not sexist. This is the way men work. Sure, there are aberrations, but when an attractive woman walks by (by those definitions) you'll be sure to see multiple heads turning her way.
    This all makes sense from the evolutionary "pass on your genes" perspective. Women have relatively few and finite amount of eggs, so they are weighing up men in many respects to make sure they can contribute good genes. Men have virtually unlimited sperm and are looking more for fertility signs (all those things mentioned before) and have no technical limit to the amount of offspring they can have, nor are they encumbered by pregnancy. All this is to say, they care little about all the minutia about the "fitness" of female partners and are more interested in their health/fertility.

    Beauty is also a lot more universal than many think. Across cultures certain things are prized: feminine facial characteristics, large hips to waist ratio (to a degree, fatness or leanness is really secondary, depending on the culture), and symmetry.

    I think women who treadmill their way to be rail thin are as misguided as guys who are roided up out of their minds. Matt's wrong about this. Generally, extreme leanness isnt really prized to men at all in America. This is more of a competitive phenomenon among females themselves. Compare Cosmo to Maxim. Men read Maxim. Women get "beauty" tips from Cosmo. The cruel irony.

    Don't throw the baby out with the bath water. Just because having a beautiful (and yes, beautiful as defined by those standards above) body isn't the end all be all, doesnt mean it isnt of value or isnt worth it. I'm a personal trainer and have seen many build a great deal of confidence just because of their shaping a sexier body. I dont see why they shouldnt feel that way.
    In the same way, just because life isnt all about clothes or my material wealth, doesnt mean that I won't benefit greatly by having a job that affords me and a potential mate a secure and comfortable lifestyle; or even from a leadership role. Should I feel materialistic because I try to maximize my material resources to be attractive? I don't think so.

    Holy crap, I apologize for the stream of consciousness I just crapped out there. With all respect and openness (you could be right),

  173. Thanks for your support, Josh.

    As I have said, my comment of men liking "weaker" women is wrong. The stamement "men like anorexic women because they're weak" was a complete lie. I'm actually disgusted by anorexics.

    There's a Japanese girl who is very tall for her age. She's 5'11.

    However, she's very cute. She has a feminine personality and body language.

    Even if she grow some muscle while remaining this tall, she would still be attractive.

    I'm angry at some commenters saying "poor, poor girl." I can't think of any reason to say that she is "poor." Tallness is an attractive quality for both males and females.

  174. JT, I deleted some parts of my comment so my comment length would be within 4096 characters, which is the maximum allowed character count.

    Welcome back, JT.

  175. DML, if you already do not see me as an intellectual I highly doubt you will gain anything from this but anyhoo here goes….He may not have described anything with complex mathematics but he and other's who have said similar things in their own words that definitely made an impression on me in my studies of quantum physics.

    they have all spoke of the smallest possible division of things and that there are things moving within that realm even though you cant see them going into a description more or less of sub atomic particles. within this "tiny world" things like the power of the sun are possible. ( barrier penetration perhaps?? ) they have also said this " tiny world" ( quantum) is affected by perception. (that makes me think of the 2 slit experiment. )
    multiple universes and how things are all connected. I have also heard an example that sounded like schrodinger's cat and a host of other bizarre things.

    I would be amazed at them just knowing all the planets considering a good portion of the subartic ( in north america) had virtually no contact with the outside world including books until just recently.

  176. John,

    you said
    "Chief just spits out all his random "philosophical" theories that usually have little to no biological support."

    you're making assumptions and there is no need to.
    My goal is to further the collective knowledge. I do not focus on backing my statements with studies or breaking down a bunch of science for people because ultimately 90 percent of people will not understand and it will only impede their success in achieving a happy healthy life. I assure you it all can be corroborated with mainstream science, you just have to throw out a bunch of bull shit concepts like calories in calories out. I may not have isolated all the variables but to me that is of little importance as results speak volumes compared to any published (financially biased) study.

    you may think I'm just some stupid backwoods indian but i could easily keep up with any health related geek speak Im just not into arguing or debating things, i leave that to the mass debaters.
    if you wish to understand anything that I say and need to be pointed in the right direction as far as a good book to read or whatever have you …just ask I'll be happy to help you out.

  177. Women are aroused by men who sing good. So they believe that the other way around is true. They believe that men are roused by women who sing good too.

    Have you noticed that women outnumber men in your school chorus? Have you noticed that a lot more women than men take singing lessens? Those women are in fact misconceived that men are aroused by women who can sing good. So women waste their money taking singing lessons, in their failed attempt to impress men.

    Women think that they men care about status, even after men told them again and again that status doesn't matter.

    I can think of many reasons for this:

    1. Women are attracted to high-status men, so they think men are attracted to high-status women too.

    2. Women tell other women that men like high-status women. The media reinforces the myth that men like high-status women.

    3. Women will be too upset to find out that status doesn't matter. You see–a woman grows up and spent thousand of dollars on clothes, jewelry, and shoes. But she is soon told by her brother that buying expensive clothing won't make her more attractive. She will be upset by this if she is convinced. But usually, she will rationalize it away and believe that her expensive purchases are worthwhile. She's too afraid to admit to herself that all the money that she had spend on clothing is of no use. So she continues to believe that men find women in expensive clothing attractive. This is called post-purchase rationalization.

  178. Thank you so much. I really needed to hear this right now as I was considering going on some sort of pointless diet after the holidays because all of my pants are a bit too tight. Instead I'm going to go out and buy new pants in the after- Christmas sales! And this has helped me realize that my desire to be super-thin is ridiculous as my spouse really truly thinks I look great no matter what my weight is.

  179. Tezza said:

    No, women wear earrings, bracelets and necklaces because those areas (ears, wrists, neck) are erogenous zones.

    I never heard of it, but I learned that some women wear earrings because of that. There are other factors as well, because some men are aroused by earrings due to its resemblance to ear tags.

  180. Been offline a few days, missed this, left far behind on the comments, but wanted to thank you. This is so straight and so awesome. I don't know that I'll ever be able to internalize it, but I'm keeping on reading to keep reminding myself.

    That breakdown of the problems with being fixated on attractiveness just rules. And I have to add something too, from the other perspective. Now, not being emaciated as I was for many years, I am _more_ attractive. I have boobs and thick hair. But I eat so little to be this size and I feel that it's a false appearance. Also, a big part of me _doesn't want_ to be more attractive: I starved myself for years and years because I wanted to disappear, and now here I am with messed up metabolism and the anorexic's worst nightmare!

    Thanks again for this–it's great medicine.
    Love brada Iz also: you lived in HI too?
    Happy new year

  181. Wondering what your thoughts are on foods that cause mental symptoms. Dairy makes me really wired and spacey and scared. Just eat them? I am trying the overeatig thing to improve

  182. Ela, thanks for the comment. Shoots yeah I live Maui fo Tree yee-ah. Ho brah.


    That's always a tricky question. I'm all about challenging the system to better adapt to things. In general though, eating something that makes you feel bad is disordered eating. Part of the rehab I aim to help people with in the upcoming year is to help people establish a healthy relationship with food, and actually define what that is. Let me know what I can do to help.

  183. Not sure what to think. Since My digestion is pretty screwed. I think yogurt could help that, but the mental stuff I dont know. Ive read gaps, and I get the whole opoid thing. But I think the cortisol response to the dairy might be worse than any benefit I might get. I don't sleep if I have dairy… Do you think this can go away if my helath improves even without dairy for a while? Where else can I get the minerals? Dairy sems to be a good source.

    Everytime I google something your site comes up!

  184. Answer to question 1 – Yes, absolutely, without a shadow of a doubt… cut it out now and reintroduce it later if desired

    Question #2-

    Vegetables, unrefined starches, fruit, and molasses are great sources of minerals. I might actually post something about molasses someday soon now that I'm not as sugar-phobic as I used to be. That is perhaps the most mineral dense food on earth. I've been getting in about 2 tablespoons per day for 2 months now and have nothing but good things to say about it.

  185. shit if I sniffed fruit or malasses i'd be an psychotic maniac and theyd have to institutionalize me.

    so no 'fruc fructose' anymore then? what do you think causes the reactions to it that I have? I was thinkin lack of minerals in the body = lack of sufficient material to produce enzymes = f****** up mess

    How do you know when it's time to reintroduce shit like that? and dairy?

  186. and I am serious about the books in hard cover. I am burning my eyes and brain readin em on the puter but I am having too much fun

  187. Try Kindle. I'm even making my blogs available on Kindle soon.

    Like many things, my previous negative experiences with fructose came from what I think is more likely to be some physiological defect. In other words, it wasn't the fruit's fault, but mine. I no longer have those issues.

    Eating tons of food to the point where you are at or above your body's desired set point completely and radically improves glucose metabolism, neurotransmitter production, and all the things required to not find such foods addictive, causative of mood swings and adrenal crashes, and so forth. But it's probably best to wait until you get there before over-relying on them.

  188. You better make them available on Nook too, Stone!!!!! :-)

  189. You and your damn nook! You just had to be different didn't you Will???

    One thing at a time homeslice, one thing at a time.

  190. I'm pleased and intrigued to see you talking up molasses: I've always had a good feeling about the stuff (although I've been avoiding it for the last couple of years what with candida and sugar-phobia). A funny black and white thing, isn't it: black molasses is so mineral-rich just precisely because white sugar is so mineral-stripped…

    I'll look forward to hearing what you have to say on it, and suspect that I'll work it back in at some point myownself.

  191. Wonderful post! I am rethinking everything, and I will no longer ignore that subconscious voice telling me all of the things you just wrote. I think I finally get it. Thank you!!!

  192. Excellent. Absolutely excellent.

  193. Sadly, folks will say we lost Iz’s wonderful voice because he was fat. But I would like to remind them that we lost Karen Carpenter’s fabulous voice, because she feared fat.

  194. um, wow. I think I’m in love with you Matt Stone. But seriously, that was an amazing post, more people need to think like this.

  195. Read the post, listened to IZ singing “Somewhere Over The Rainbow” while reading the last several paragraphs…

    Thank you. I’m 55 years old. A cancer survivor. Terrified to eat. My story is way too long to go into, but not much different from anyone else around here. (Except maybe for the cancer part.)

    I keep typing and then deleting, because there’s too much to say. I’ll boil it all down to THANK YOU.

    I think I might start living now. And IZ will provide the soundtrack.

    God bless you, dear Matt.

  196. I think this should be required reading for kids and plastered on every billboard and magazine cover. Thank you, Matt. You speak a beautiful truth resting on a foundation of great courage.



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