Pre- and Post-Workout Meals

i’ve actually been finding i’m getting really improved workouts by eating a huge meal (1000-1200 cals), then working out about 8-10 hours later (without feeding again before then, but eating a good dose of food right after)

not trying to be an obnoxious devil’s advocate (maybe the above doesn’t even count as an “empty” stomach), but rather confirm that there isn’t an optimal timeframe or macro-ratio and that experimentation will help you figure it out best (unless i’m making a huge mistake and killing my metabolism by doing this, yikes)

Conflicting studies on the “anabolic window” make this a difficult question to answer. I’m generally with Thomas Seay with a couple of caveats. 1) Intensity of training. If you are repeatedly hitting lactic acid threshold during your training, then it makes sense that you would replace some of the muscle glycogen that you are using. Thus carbs. 2) Time of workout. If you are training fasted (which many who workout in the morning are) a post-workout something is essential. Now, i’m not saying that it needs to be a shake, but it should be something that you can consume with ease (simply so you don’t skip recovery). Greek yogurt + sugar + several pieces of fruit is good. 3) Overall protein consumption. If you’re not providing adequate protein to replenish your amino acid pools, then protein post workout is necessary. Plus, the additional protein does contribute to the thermogenic effect of feeding = more calories burnt with no external effort.

Pre-workout is simpler: caffeine or yerbal mate.

And so i answer your question exactly:
– Pre-workout: caffiene + small glass of salted-OJ 30 minutes pre=workout
– Post-workout (if trained as above): 1:3 or 1:5 ratio of protein to carbs. Hit at least 20g of carbs (i usually opt for 40g … i’m around 160lbs).

Haha no worries Heather, yes I have been there since April 2012. I’m sorry to hear that you are resigning yourself. Though you might not want to leap in to Minnimaud- there is no need not to make baby steps towards making things better. The forums on YE can be a bit militant on the whole ‘eat the MM min or YOU WILL DIE’, which is patently not true. I think that, while MM may have many benefits, it should be one of a range of options and plenty of people recover in different ways. I myself did MM for about 4 months, then went more Kartini since then, and feel that was def the right move health wise. Don’t feel like it has to be all or nothing- just do what you can do an you will get there eventually!

all the best, Nat

I just wanted to second what Thomas said up top. One of the easiest ways to maintain authority over people is to convince them that you have special knowledge. Sometimes this is legitimate, but it’s also common to see gurus over-complicate something simple, as a trick to make themselves indispensable. When it comes to workout nutrition, I think the basic concepts are pretty simple. As long as your body is well fueled–sufficient carbs and protein–you’ll do just fine.

For inspiration, I’m linking to some pictures of what Olympic athletes from the 2012 Games were eating. You’ve probably all seen the ridiculous piles of food that Michael Phelps ate, but these are non-endurance athletes who are eating pretty normal diets. You’ll notice a lot of fruit (especially bananas), OJ, pasta, rice, beans, lean meat, milk, cheese, and eggs. With the exception of the martial artist (in Taekwando), who was trying to cut weight for her weight class, they all eat about 3,000-3,500 calories a day.

http://www.amusingplanet.com/2012/06/olympic-athletes-diet.html

Imago, I agree with you that the calorie totals seem low, and I almost didn’t post the link for that reason. I think part of the explanation may be that three of the five athletes are in sports with weight classes (taekwondo, wrestling, and weight lifting), and the other two (track and javelin) don’t require much endurance training. Your thoughts about adaptation also make sense. Not to mention, those five athletes seem kind of small.

What really interested me about the pictures was how normal the foods were. The spreads were made up of typical everyday foods, with the exception that there wasn’t any “junk food” in there.

@imago: “It does seem like particular results can come from nutrition at the highest levels of athletic performance- but that is when you are really at the edge of ability, and for your average person, it just simply will not make that much difference and is not worth the neurotic over-thinkin”

I generally disagree with this. Most frequent gym-goers are either 1) underfed 2) overfed 3) paying absolutely no attention to diet whatsoever. If one’s goal is to lose weight weight in the gym (90% of my clients want to shed lbs.) then diet is always the first thing we talk about (diet and hypothyroidism ;-)) For Olympic athletes the question of diet becomes even more important. On the level of elite competition, everything matters. I would wager that such a small size of athletes doesn’t well represent the neurotic nature of competition. Walk in to almost any gym, anywhere, and talk to a musclebound man or woman about what they eat … you are sure get an earful.

@Imago: 3000-3500 does not seem very much fro people training full time! Your average young man or woman should be eating close to that with a very moderate amount of exercise

The term moderate is fairly vague. For instance, I personally train around 20 hours per week (~3 hours per day, 6 days a week). You might not consider this moderate, but for a well-trained athlete that has trained extensively over time 3 hours can be like a warmup. Ever spent an entire day in the gym? I do this routinely. My temps (since recovery) are quite stable at 97.8 (waking axial). My caloric input sustains my effort. Without additional exertion, like an Olympic athlete, the additional calories would be unnecessary, for me at least … UNLESS you were/are in recovery … then the sole goal should be recovery.