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  • in reply to: Doesn't Pizza Have Too Many PUFAs? #15218

    Please forgive my idiotic typos in the last post.

    in reply to: Salted Caramel Icecream #15172

    Hey supersweet (and anyone else),

    I buy Three Twins ‘Sea Salted Caramel’ organic ice cream. It is DE-LISH! I don’t know in which states it is sold, but I have access to it at my Whole Foods in the greater Seattle area.

    I think making your own is ideal, but the cost may come out to be more-or-less the same as just buying it. But, hey, if you got it to work for you, keep it up!

    in reply to: Need HELP increasing fat in diet… #15170


    I am sorry for your issues. I read all your comments within this post, but I am unaware of your history.

    Here are some thoughts.

    Chronic Fat Deficiency:

    One thing I have read (not experienced myself or in those I know) is that long-term fat deficiency (due to caloric or fat restriction and/or malabsorption) can led to de-myelination. What then happens UPON REINTRODUCING FAT IN THE DIET is that the re-myelination can cause tingling and nerve-type pains. This is reportedly not uncommon in recovering anorexics.

    In this second link, carefully read the comments from Gwyneth (bunny avatar), who is the site creator.

    I think that if your history involves restriction, then your chronic fatigue MAY be simply a terrible manifestation of the chronic undernourishment. There MAY OR MAY NOT BE other ‘autoimmune’, ‘infectious’, or other issues involved. I would personally recommend not getting too specific with testing and witch hunting until you’ve tried serious refeeding.

    If you do not have the apatite to eat, enzymes and betaine hcl may help. You may find just EATING helps improve your apatite.

    Copper Deficiency, and its relationship to Zinc

    Some also find that zinc, which is known to help regulate apatite, helps them eat more as well. But be careful, since nerve pathologies can be induced by copper deficiency. So, I STRONGLY recommend, in light of your symptoms, to supplement copper with zinc.

    IF you wanted to test for copper deficiency (which I have a feeling may be involved in the nerve damage effects of anorexia), you would need to know the following:
    Most common low copper manifestations in blood:

    Low neutrophils (neutropenia)
    Low blood cerulopslamin
    Low blood copper
    High blood ferritin

    I am not necessarily suggesting testing these, but if you had previous blood work over the past handful of years, it may be beneficial to re-analyze these tests.

    If your diet has been high in zinc (supplemental and/or high in ruminant muscle meat) and low in copper (low in liver, supplements) then you may have induced a relative copper deficiency with such high zinc. I think the modern interpretation of a ‘paleo’ diet is asking for this. I think something like 15-20 mg zinc and 3-5 mg copper supplemental would be a worthy experiment. One ounce of beef liver is about 3-4 mg copper. So, if you eat a lot of liver, forget the copper supplement. And if you eat a whole bunch of muscle meat, forget the zinc. Oysters typically have a good amount of both.

    I hope these thoughts help you some. I have had severely debilitating fibromyalgia and a concomitant ‘chronic fatigue’ (and other things) the past 3 years. I cannot imagine any more suffering. Your years of struggle are as hellish as can be. But let’s see if you can beat this! Please keep us updated on your thoughts/progress/new information/questions.

    • This reply was modified 10 years, 2 months ago by celticphoenix.
    in reply to: Doesn't Pizza Have Too Many PUFAs? #15152

    I’ve looked into this quite a bit throughout my own (ongoing) recovery.
    Regrettably, I have not found a pizza manufacturer that does not use industrial oils in their products.

    There are just a few links to ingredients/nutrition. Papa John’s, for instance, doesn’t even post their exact ingredients. However some lab clearly at some point analyzed a couple pizzas of theirs for nutrition (through

    It looks like their may be a couple grams per slice at Papa John’s of vege oils. So, is that enough to warrant avoidance? I think probably not, especially for those in need of calorically dense, relatively well-rounded meals. I think combining home-cooked low PUFA meals (tubers, fruit, ruminant meat, dairy, sugars, coconut) with some better-than-average fast food choices (Papa John’s, chipotle/qdoba, teriyaki, certain candy bars, whatever else) as desired by instinct and taste is probably the way to go.

    So, then why even bother with pizza? How can pizza help? It has to do with it being calorically dense (many find calorie density as important if not moreso than total calories), high in many pro-metabolic nutrients (cheese, starch, salt, other ‘tastes’ to stimulate digestion and metabolism), and it being decently well-rounded in nutrients/vitamins/minerals to support the metabolic needs.

    I don’t think pizza is uniquely ‘awesome’ in terms of metabolic recovery. But surely pizza, ice cream, and other calorically dense combinations make up a helpful component of a recoveree’s diet.

    Those are just my thoughts.

    in reply to: Mold and Mycotoxins #15125

    The Real Amy,

    Thanks for your response. Moving out didn’t definitively change anything, though I have read this can be true of mold patients since the mycotoxins are still present and recirculating. I think, at this point, diet restrictions and other things have played the bigger part, but I will be unable to fully tell for sure until this whole thing is resolved. That’s one reason I am hoping for some comments from others in similar boats, and/or I hope to help any future readers who find themselves in similar situations to where I have found myself.

    For those interested in mold literature, William Rea from Dallas is considered one of the best Environmental Doctors today, and he has written some good stuff. That being said, I think one day I may need to get in contact with Rea and begin to present what I have come to believe is a more complete picture of ‘environmental illness’ based on overall metabolism and immune function/dysfunction.

    For interested parties, below are a couple articles from Rea:

    The second is gold, and is a summary of case studies. If you don’t have full access, the below link (for the moment anyway) offers the full paper as a pdf.

    I would like to re-iterate to any future readers that I followed the ‘protocol’ of infrared sauna therapy and cholestyramine binding for many months (after I moved out of the suspected source), as per the established protocol, but I did not notice any benefit whatsoever. In the paper, supposedly all the patients recovered mostly or fully within a few months. Still my urine mycotoxins were high. Now after several months of refeeding, many of my symptoms have begun to improve. Nothing radical, but definite, objective improvement.

    in reply to: Obese & need help **LONG** #14992


    I am pleased that you have found the comments useful thus far. I wanted to follow up with some of your questions.

    My mom HAS GAINED weight during the past months of eating. She is eating 3000-5000 Cals per day, probably averaging 4,000 Cals per day. She eats a lot of bananas; home-made mashed potatoes with butter, ground beef, and peas (like a ‘Shepard’s pie’); raisins; raw honey; scrambled and boiled eggs; liver sausage from US Wellness Meats; yogurt; Cheese; other fruit; and sweet potatoes. We buy everything Organic/Grass-fed from stores, and eggs are pastured from some local farmer’s markets. That’s her ‘healthy food’ that she eats a decent amount of. But, SHE ALSO eats throughout the week AT LEAST 2 Medium pizzas from Papa John’s; 1 burrito from either Chipotle or Qdoba; some beef teriyaki with extra rice and no salad from a local Teriyaki place; LOTS of Organic Chocolate Chocolate Chip Ice Cream; and MANY of the Organic Nature’s Path Pop-Tart-like things (toaster pastries). So, she definitely balances ‘health food’ with ‘junk food’. She and I have both found that we simply feel better (energy, mood, sleep, other symptoms) when we eat some calorically dense foods (sugar, salt, fat) in addition to our fruit/meat/starch. But the opposite is also true. If she eats pizza and teriyaki several days in a row, she’ll crave a couple meals in a row of just fruit and yogurt. So, she has found it best to just FOLLOW CRAVINGS/INSTINCT. (But we do try, within reason, to avoid vegetable oils, corn syrups, artificial preservatives/flavorings/colors.)

    My Mom started at about 285lbs on 5’2″ several years ago with MANY health problems. I got her on the paleo bandwagon (which I do now regret, in hindsight) in about 2008. She lost weight to about 175’ish (with slight fluctuations) by summer of 2010. She had better energy than she had in years, her arthritis was improved, and her skin was consistently better. But, starting in middle 2010, she started to worsen in EVERYTHING. By summer 2013, we really became desperate. We had tried by then nuances of the low carb/paleo thing including the Perfect Health Diet (slightly higher carbs, about 100-150 grams per day mostly from potatoes and rice), the no starch ‘Specific Carb Diet’ approach, and some Intermittent Fasting. Nothing worked and her health kept getting worse. So, the idea was: ‘If restrictions aren’t working, let’s do the opposite and see what happens.’ I don’t know her present weight exactly (she won’t tell me), but she says she’s gained about 20 pounds since summer 2013. Coming off of low carb, intermittent fasting approach, the bulk of that is water and intestinal mass, but surely some is also visceral fat. In anorexics, the weight ‘overshoot’ is typically 10%, and it has been reported that ‘chronic dieters’ may overshoot by 20%. Then, after many months (6-18 months for most), the weight redistributes and/or comes off (without dieting, just due to an increase in natural metabolism). So, we’re just trying to have her live instinctively for the first time in decades and we’ll be patient.

    I would expect that you WILL GAIN weight, and you should expect that. If you have some people around you who judge your weight to be somehow ‘moral’ or a ‘personal pejorative’, then this may be tough for you. If you are the one who judges the person in the mirror, either stop looking into the mirror or try to focus on something else, like how much strength you have in trying to overcome the demons of health, or how unique your struggles have been and how beautiful you are in light of these. I would recommend you consider putting your scale away somewhere if you think it gives you anxiety.

    But, the good news is that weight gain implies your body IS WORKING, since it is smartly trying to protect itself for next dieting go-around, which your lifestyle has led it to think will happen again soon. The typical progression is weight gain (water, intestinal mass, visceral fat) -> then stable wight with body temperature normalization and improvements in hormones (mood, period cycle, sleep, etc.) -> then (last) tissue regeneration and weight redistribution, fat loss. I encourage you to see on various experiences with anorexics trying to recover. MOST ARE NOT skinny when they start recovery, and MOST DON’T EVEN KNOW that they are anorexics, until they get some help from someone. Like everyone, we all are effected by the ‘cultural wisdom’ around us, and ‘Eat Less, Exercise More’ is the Self-Evident Truth that our culture won’t shut up about, even though most ‘scientific data’ refutes it.

    I also wanted to comment on your note that your temp drops after you eat. My mom and I have both experienced this, and MANY MANY people say the same on this and other forums. Food and Eating (especially starch) is very ‘Parasympathetic’, meaning that it shuts off the ‘Sympathetic’ or ‘Stress’ hormone system of your body. (Think of Parasympathetic as ‘rest and digest’ and Sympathetic and ‘fight or flight’.) In cases where the stress hormones are the primary system raising your body temperature (as opposed to thyroid hormones, which are not ‘stress’ hormones), then eating will very quickly make you cold. This PROVES that you are overrun with stress hormones. So, eating enough and consistently will, overtime (weeks to months) raise your thyroid hormones and lower your stress hormones and prevent you from being so cold after you eat. For my mom and me both, it took about 4 months. But some days we still notice a little of this. But last summer, before re-feeding and coming off of Paleo and Intermittent Fasting, I would be shivering very uncomfortably even with a sweatshirt and pants on after a big bowl of rice. So, the point is, do what you can to be comfortable, including wearing more clothes, but KEEP EATING. Your body is ‘telling’ you that it needs it.

    Your brownie and cake cravings are a sign that your body needs quick calories. Your are good to deliver the goods. Such strong cravings will go way eventually, but please keep following cravings wherever they may take you. I wish you a quick and pain-free recovery, but I would put money down that that won’t happen. The road will be long and arduous. But there is light on the other side. Please keep us all updated on your progress and setbacks.

    in reply to: Obese & need help **LONG** #14979


    I am sorry for your current situation. My Mother, who is now much older than you, had a similar history and symptom set. She was very overweight, but always appeared to have great energy, didn’t seem to need much sleep (and always claimed to sleep well, even though she had bad sleep apnea), always ‘felt’ warm, hated the taste of salt and didn’t crave sugary things much at all. In fact, she would often complain about how sugary and salty people made their foods. Fast-forward to last year, and she was suffering big time from many hypometabolic problems, including diagnosed MS, arthritis, glaucoma, eczema, chronic fatigue, and some other things. Clinically, she had normal thyroid levels except very high reverse T3. She tried dieting several times in the past, and her weight really got out of hand within a year or two after her first Jenny Craig attempt during college, and then continued to accelerate after each child.

    The good news in my Mom’s case is that she has seen many good (though incomplete) improvements the past 6 months or so since we started having her eat to appetite of whatever she craved (including a lot of chocolate chocolate chip ice cream!): even her aversion to sugar and salt is almost gone now! It has been interesting. We’ve take on the world view that she has essentially been an anorexic for 40 years, but with a BMI of 40 (at 5’2″), and that eating MAY be the answer to many of her problems. Only time will tell, but the slow progress so far has been nice (smoother skin, outer eyebrows which had been gone since her mid 20s are coming back, better sleep, better mood, blood pressure down from about 160/90 to 140/70, teeth and gums never looked so good; but digestion still sucks, worse than ever edema in feet, still tired often…) I hope you (I hope we all!) are able to avoid some of these long-term complications of poor health.

    I am not you, but please consider some pointers I thought of just while reading your post


    I think your symptoms sound like the combination of low thyroid with Sky High Stress Hormones. Your consumption of 1300-1800 Cals per day is simply not enough. The fact that you were arriving there by eating to appetite implies that your body MADE it enough by jacking up compensation hormones (‘stress’ hormones). I think you are right to look into ‘refeeding’. I am not sure that 6000 Cals is the magic number, but I think, as per Anorexia recovery guidelines, likely 3000-4000 is probably appropriate for you, considering age, weight, and history. You may want to read through for some similar reasoning. As ErinElizabeth says, you may be best off NOT counting per se, but just diligently eating large’ish meals throughout the day (I’d say at least 3 ‘square’ meals, and snacking if you ever get hungry) and letting your body and appetite re-equilibriate slowly. Calorically-dense foods that require less digestive powers such as sugar (fruit, honey, cane sugar, maple syrup, rice syrup) may help you more easily eat higher amounts without the bloat and ‘fullness’ that starch, protein, and/or fat gives. I think all classes of nutrients (starch, protein, fat, sugar) have their importance, but ADDING a couple handfuls of raisins or spoonfuls of honey at the end of your meal or as between-meal snacks may help. Drinking juice and milk is great if it agrees with you. Keep it up! You may also consider digestive enzymes, apple cider vinegar capsules, and/or betaine hcl capsules. Some notice benefit, some don’t. But it’s something to consider while your digestion gets back into gear.


    I also have so-called ‘Gilbert’s syndrome’ and I found my bilirubin would hover about 1.0-1.5mg/dL when I was young and healthier, but rose to about 2.0-2.5 when I finally got sick from metabolic issues later. Metabolic health (read: ‘hormones’) regulate the conjugating enzymes to some extent, so you may find your high biirubin comes down with increase thyroid/metabolic health. But something not often talked about is that this partially inhibited ‘glucuronidation’ of things (including bilirubin, but also estrogen and cortisol and other hormones, molds, some pharmaceuticals, etc.) means slower detox of these things in general. Glucuronidation is a major detox pathway for many foreign and endogenous substances. It is one of a few so-called ‘phase 2 detox pathways’

    What this means is that someone with Gilbert’s syndrome is more likely to accumulate certain toxins and metabolic disruptors throughout heir lives, and they MAY be at risk more than the average person for having higher body and blood levels of these things. Thus, more than most you may consider the possibility that plastics, molds, synthetic junk will effect you. Allopathy hasn’t even asked the question: “what does this mean practically for someone with Gilbert’s?” But please keep this in mind going forward. Providing your liver with enough energy (glycogen from carbs; short chain fats from vinegar and coconut oil and fibers; enough protein including some glycine from supps or gelatin/collagen; and ideally overall lowish toxin load) should give your liver the best shot in handling this obstacle.

    I wish the answers were all simple. But I’m pleased that you are on here searching. Whatever happens, please keep us all updated on your progress and findings. I think the more anecdotes out there, the more potential there is for people with seemingly unique situations to find some help.

    in reply to: Raising metabolism makes you age faster? #14959

    I thought I’d throw in a quick answer to the first/original poster here. In terms of the story of ‘high metabolism = die early’ thing, this appears to be true ACROSS species. This means, as a general rule of thumb, anxious animals like rats live shorter lives than slower animals like turtles. So, typically calculated as a per body weight basis, increased metabolic rates lower average lifespan. BUT, this is not necessarily true WITHIN a species; so humans with healthy highish metabolisms (not HYPERthyroid per se) DO NOT live shorter lives than humans with clinically or sub clinically hypo metabolisms (as judged by temperature or thyroid hormones levels). I think this community is finding the opposite is often true.

    The other issues is Calorie Restricted animals, which shows that IF you begin CR (or Intermittent Fasting) in young animals, they live longer than those who eat at liberty. But this has several large caveats:

    First, the average lifespan is reduced in animals upon being placed in captivity and the increase in lifespan the average in the population gets back after being calorie restricted ALMOST gets back the length lost due to captivity.

    Second, several other restrictions have comparable effects to CALORIE restriction, including METHIONINE (a sulfurous amino acid) and glucose restriction (carb restriction). In all restrictions, the animals grow up to be quite small (meaning small bone frame and less muscle mass). However, a recent paper showed that the Met restriction only helped longevity due to a decreased Met/Glycine ratio. Rats eating at liberty PLUS a glycine supplement gave the same longevity increase as Met restriction (and same as overall CR), but resulted in body size equivalent to the rats eating at liberty without restriction. Glycine is found naturally in collagen/gelatin; methionine is high in muscle meat, eggs, and dairy.

    Third, the lifespan benefits of CR or any restriction ONLY benefits animals when the restriction begins as YOUNG animals. If the CR begins a while after this young age, the animals live shorter lives than those fed at liberty. I think Matt Stone also had mentioned this somewhere in a past (now erased) blog post. I have never seen a study that posted this information in the abstract, but I have seen this evident in the results pages of several studies. I think this is showing that young animals essentially ‘grow into’ the food they eat; but a body that has ‘grown into’ calorically dense foods, will become severally HYPOmetabolic when switching to a lower caloric intake and die of disease. My hunch, though I haven’t seen this ever studied, would be that the restriction will be deadly to an adult animal whether the restriction is via eating a lower amount of the same calorically dense food or simply switching to paleo/natural foods and eating lower total calories. I also surmise that the larger the body size and higher the metabolic rate of the adult, the more drastic the health deterioration will be upon restricting. Sound familiar anyone?

    • This reply was modified 10 years, 2 months ago by celticphoenix.
    in reply to: Fructose Malabsorption #14955

    Thanks, Chris. It’s a pleasure meeting you here online! I wish I had the aptitude for languages like you! I took a couple years of Latin, one semester Old Norse, and I learned Old English on my own. My preferences for ancient languages meshes with my preference for ancient/medieval history. But modern languages require faster processing speed, and mouth/tongue ‘dexterity’, and I find that very difficult for me.

    I don’t know much formally about psychology, but it sure is an important field. However, in medicine, psychiatry is rarely respected among ‘normal’ doctors. (Most doctors (most people) are highly biased.) I always found psychiatrists to be the most agreeable to me, and surgeons the least.

    Ave atque vale!

    in reply to: Fructose Malabsorption #14948

    Definitely drink milk if it agrees with you! It tastes delish and is high in many valuable nutrients. Unfortunately, it does not agree with everyone, for one reason or another.

    I was a biochem major, which really helped give me the background to better do my own research and understand scientific literature on my own. No class I ever took (undergrad or med school) taught me anything particularly practical, but I can’t say that is was completely unhelpful. I think the hardest thing, and the thing to be most careful about, is to be critical with the textbook stuff taught in schools, on encyclopedias, and disseminated through ‘popular’ culture/doctors/television. I may be wrong, but I have come through my own investigation to disagree with the vast majority of stuff considered ‘fact’ by the authorities. I think that’s the same for Matt Stone and others.

    I do recommend that you take the premed courses that you need, but also don’t shy away from other courses that you just WANT to take. I regret not taking more history and language courses, for instance. You may never get the chance to take some of these again. So have fun!

    I wish you the best of luck in your studies! We’re all students! As a look ahead, you may find as you move forward with formal education that teachers and the ‘system’ are increasingly hard on free thinkers, and that just regurgitating what the system wants is easier for you than swimming upstream all the time. Following orders would not be so bad in this case. But do please keep an open mind and, at least to yourself in your own head, be critical of what is being taught. I don’t think there is a stronger propaganda program in existence than what is fed premeds and med students in our country.

    in reply to: Fructose Malabsorption #14939

    ErinElizabeth, yeah that’s interesting what you say about milk. Galactose absorbs just dandy in most people on its own, so the cleaved glucose from lactose would assist in fructose absorption from fruit/honey.

    However, I suspect many people who are fructose malabsorbers as a result of unhealth (few are genetic malabsorbers) will also be lactose intolerant, since the same hypothyroid, intestinal overgrowth, high stress situation that results in low fructose transporters (low glut5) will result in low lactase activity. In this case, the milk won’t help. But, hey, if it works for you stick with it!

    in reply to: Fructose Malabsorption #14938

    elfman5150, like ErinElizabeth said, cane sugar or ‘sugar’ or ‘sucrose’ is one part glucose and one part fructose. Based on the studies I’ve seen, most people handle this just fine ALONE. However, it will not help you absorb an excess of fructose from fruit/honey. ‘Dextrose’ is just free glucose made in a lab by enzymatically breaking down starch.

    Unfortunately, very few foods contain free glucose, and the reason is that everything (bacteria, fungus, animals, etc.) can all easily eat free glucose, so storing free glucose would be suicide. (Besides that, free glucose attracts water moreso than sucrose or starch, so it is more wasteful of space to have free glucose). Ripe bananas are about as good as it gets, with about 1/3 fructose, the rest glucose or starch (depending on ripeness). If you can’t buy dextrose (I use NOW Foods dextrose powder), you could try eating some starch with your fruit. Or, you could try rice syrup, which is rice starch broken down via enzymes to shorter ‘oligosaccharides’ of glucose chains (not straight glucose, but easier to digest than long starch). I eat rice syrup like I do honey, by just taking a big spoonful. Essentially all the carbs in rice syrup metabolize to glucose, so it should help balance fruit nicely.

    in reply to: Fructose Malabsorption #14908

    Based on my readings, I think it is overwhelmingly clear that the rise in triglycerides, the increased visceral adiposity (and concomitant insulin resistance and hypertension), and whatever other ill effects fructose has on humans is the result of malabsorption and selective fermentation by ‘bad bugs’ which produce various toxins (such as endotoxin) which we then absorb. Foods with digestive inhibitors, such as legumes and certain grains, may lead to a similar rise in endotoxin due to their inhibiting of the digestion of our foods.

    My understanding with foods (or at least with carbs/protein/fat/alcohol/fibers/synthetic sweeteners/etc.) is that fermentation by bacteria WILL HAPPEN when we malabsorb the food. The result (good or bad) depends on the selectivity of the feeding. ‘Resistant starch’ and ‘inulin’ tend to feed ‘probiotic’ bifidobacteria and increase healthful substrates like butyrate and other short chain fats. Conversely, fructose, alcohol, (and other things) if malabsorbed will selectively feed ‘bad bugs’ and increase endotoxin absorption which goes to the liver and places a massive energy burden on the liver to detox the endotoxin. If the liver is given extra energy via, for example, short chain fats like MCTs and vinegar, the systemic effects of the endotoxemia are lessened. This, I think, is one of the reasons vinegar lowers postprandial glucose in diabetics and pre-diabetics (it helps the liver cope with postprandial endotoxemia).

    As an aside to this last point, I one time recommended my med school roommate take some apple cider vinegar capsules and coconut oil right before he went out drinking. He is a small Asian guy who said he normally feels ?buzzed? after one beer. Well, I challenged him to see how much he could drink by taking some ACV and MCTs. I had him take 10 ACV caps and 20g coconut oil. He said he got up to 6 beers and stopped because he thought he should, but felt nothing. I am not a drinker, but I think this is a proof of principle: supporting the liver’s energy status with short chain fats and absorbable carbs can eliminate most negative effects of malabsorbed foods. But better would be to absorb the food properly in the first place!

    In any case, specific to fructose, provided it is absorbed, it’s all good. And making sure you eat enough glucose WITH the fructose will help most absorb the fructose without problem. The exact mechanism of this is not worked out, but appears to involve a ‘cotransport’ mechanism by which one molecule each of fructose and glucose are carried together.

    in reply to: Jackson's Honest Chips fried in coconut oil #14759

    I purchased some of these bad boys a few months ago, and I think they are as good as any chips I’ve had taste wise. The downside is that they are crazy expensive (about $5 per 5oz bag). I had the sea salt and vinegar ones. I like the idea of them and hopefully they’ll drop in price after people start buying them more. (hint hint!)

    I’ve already asked and my local PCC (Issaquah, WA; in the greater Seattle area) to carry them. The quality and health side of things is enough for me to buy them, but I also like supporting the family compared to most insatiable capitalist companies.

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