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Hey Linda, the book was 99 cents, and it was worth that. Here is a summary. Your body has a biologically regulated fat set point. Unless you lower it, you will forever be fighting your biology. Environment plays a role in this set point. Things that raise the set point:
1. hyper-palatible food
2. eating too many calories on a consistent basis
3. too man PUFAs
4. not enough sleep
5. food or calorie restriction (includes restricting carb, fat, sugar, etc restriction)
6. not enough light (bad circadian rhythms etc)
7. Sitting all day / inactivity
8. Stress / Over-exerciseAll points agree with Matt Stone except hyper-palatible food and over eating. Matt believes you need huge amounts of calories to heal your body and therefore recommends eating hyper-palatible food, but Ari believes that such strong flavors cause a neurological disregulation in the brain similar to drugs resulting in over-eating and a higher set point. Matt believed you could lower your set point through over- eating because the extra food would lower cortisol, increasing insulin sensitivity and would increase leptin circulation. These would raise metabolism. Matt believes that gaining the weight is your body readjusting to your existing set point, but also provides benefits like increased leptin.
Ari would agree that while some initial weight gain may occur if you remove a forced depravation, eating processed food with its aggressive flavors will only aggregate the problem of weight gain by raising your set point. His solution, eat simple (bland), healthy foods to fullness. Do not restrict calories, but limit PUFAs. Sleep. Stop sitting all day. Get adequate light. The only difference between Matt and Ari is not over-eating and not eating processed or highly palatable foods which in many ways are the same thing.
For those on this thread i recommend reading Ari Whitten’s e-book, FOREVER FAT LOSS, which Matt references in the most recent newsletter. While Ari agrees with Matt about many things (don’t restrict calories, eat fat, starch, and sugar, Omega-6 are bad, etc), he is very much against hyper-palatable food as he says it neurologically overrides the body’s fat setpoint causing you to both eat more and store more. While Ari would agree with principles in Eat for Heat (Salt, Sugar, Starch, Saturated Fat), he would not agree with combining them into super tasty foods that not only make you overeat, but also seem to cause neurological problems in relation to your body’s set point. While Matt believes you need tons of calories, Ari argues that eating the wrong foods can raise your body’s fat set point, where eating more isn’t raising the metabolism as the body shuttles the excess calories to fat instead of using them to raise the metabolism where they would be burned off as heat.
Thanks David, sounds like you are I have similar philosophies. Currently, i’m only doing about 30 min, 5 min warm up, 20 min run and 5 min cool down. I also do some slow biking (due to the more specific musculature most people recommend using a slightly lower heart rate when biking). For me, the goal is less about “fitness”, but more health focused. My personal workout goals are focused on kettlebells, but my high intesity workouts were draining me. My current understanding is that having a good aerobic base is the foundation of health and then you can add some intensity on top of that base.
Some of my inspiration has come from this old video of the Polish National Weightlifting team doing some aerobic work for what is arguably the least aerobic sport in the world. You only need to watch a few minutes. My favorite quote is “the exercise provides the oxygen needed for long hours in the weight room.” Clearly they do some varied, cross country runs mixed with calesthenics. (assuming this isn’t some propaganda tape.) http://youtu.be/SZgigENw8-g
One interesting point on improvements, i have read that you should test how far you can run at the same heart rate. As long as that is improving, stick with the aerobic work in the target heart range. Once you are not making improvements, start adding the faster, harder runs once a week while still doing aerobic work to maintain the aerobic base.
David, glad to see you are making good progress running. I recently started running as well, and i would like to know if you are using a heart rate monitor. I have debated the good and bad of cardio for a while. Coming from the Paleo community many focus on intervals and intensity, yet people forget that even “reformed chronic cardio’er” Mark Sisson recommends low level aerobic work. From what i can read, that means finding the right heart rate, and most of what i read comes back to the Maffeton Method which is 180-age and then subtract ten. For example, I’m 40 so my target heart rate range is 180-40 = 140 (top end) and minus 10 = 130 (bottom end). When i run i keep my heart rate at 130-140. For most people this seems VERY slow. I have to jog at a snail’s pace and walk some to keep my heart rate this low and I thought I was in “good” shape; however, by keeping out of the anaerobic range you don’t wear your body down and as you progress aerobically, you are able to run faster and faster at the same heart rate. The key is that running too hard (too anaerobic) is stressful (most on this forum are trying to decress stress) and the only way to know if you are working out too hard is to check heart rate. Staying in the pure aerobic range reduces stress and increases energy. Some believe it helps increase mitochondrial energy by helping them burn more oxygen ( similar to what Danny Roddy is trying to do by eating sugar). Just two weeks of training aerobically has boosted my energy levels. Let’s see where i am in 3-6 months.
I’m not saying anaerobic training is bad, just that its powerful medicine and until you have a very strong aerobic base you don’t want to add anaerobic training. Also, you can overtrain aerobically if you do no weight training and no anaerobic work. It’s about balance, but most of us are out of balance (too stressed) and aerobic training can help.
Hey Dutchie, thanks for the reply. I can fall asleep with no problem in minutes, but I wake each night around 5am to go to the bathroom. I’m still relaxed but i can never really go back to sleep. I tried some sugar and salt under my tongue when i wake up but that didn’t seem to help. I have considered going to the fridge to have a snack but have not tried it yet. I used to wake up around 4am but the honey seems to have given me an extra hour.
The author never addresses molasses, etc and i agree they offer benefits. Fruit and honey are the only natural foods that are sugar so i put them at the top of the sugar hierarchy, but i don’t disregard the benefits of more refined sugars.
I find it interesting that you sleep better when you don’t have starches. Can you provide more information on that? I was Paleo (low carb to VLC) for years. I actually bought Robb Wolf’s book because he asked “Do you wake every morning at 4am to pee?” And Matt asked the same thing in Paleo Myths. hahaha. I did a consultation with Matt and he thought i needed more starch to help my sleep to help get my temperatures up. Now i’m trying sugar (honey). We’ll see. Sometimes i wonder if before bed i should have some low glycemic carb like oatmeal with a little honey and some fat and maybe some MCT oil to try and provide the longest lasting energy supply i can while i sleep.
When i was growing up my mother was very strict about me getting enough sleep. Even into high school i had to be in bed around 9-9:30pm for a 7am wake up. I got at least 9-10 hours every night including the weekends until i was 16. I think that was a reason i was so healthy when younger. if you eat and sleep well, your health takes care of itself.
I went to a sleep doctor and they asked me to try sleep restriction therapy. I was about 2 weeks in when i got so exhausted i got sick.
Dutchie, i have bigger sleep issues and honey did not fix them as the Hibernation Diet stated it would. Still, i’m having a little honey and milk before bed each night and i do think it improves sleep, although not to the extent i would like. (and i can’t thank you enough for telling me about the Hibernation Diet as it is making me re-think “fueling” for sleep)
I have ordered the Hibernation Diet book but its out of print and taking a long time to arrive. I did read The Honey Revolution, a more recent book by the same author (McInnes), which focuses on the benefits of sugar, but specifically touts honey. I also saw he just released (earlier this year) a book called the Honey Diet, whcih i’m sure i will also read soon. Besides this guy’s honey fetish, he reports some good data on the importance of sugar; however, he is still against refined sugar mostly because of studies that show it causes problems (elevated blood glucose, elevated triglycerides) that honey and fruit do not. He states that 1) people don’t ingest honey or fruit in the same quantities as HFCS and sucrose and this overconsumption overloads the liver with fructose and 2) at similar doses, honey does not stimulate blood sugar levels like HFCS and sucrose. He ends by saying “There is something in honey that allows the liver to metabolize fructose in the way nature intended that is not found in other refined or artificial sweeteners. We do not have all the answers at this point.” I don’t know if he made that argument convincingly to me yet, but i like honey and fruit, so i’ve been eating more of it such as honey on swiss cheese, honey in milk, honey in cornbread, homemade granola with honey and coconut oil instead of canola oil, etc . . . I do think sugar cravings exist for a reason, but i still have a bias towards “whole” foods and try to get the bulk of my sugar from honey and fruit. I will also admit that i still find Matt’s recommendations in 180 Diabeties to eat/overeat on “whole” foods to help carb metabolism to be interesting. At the time, Matt believed whole foods had nutrients that assisted metabolism. This is very much the argument that McInnes makes about honey. Matt has altered his opinions about refined foods but something about his old work still rings true.
Since this post was originally about over-feeding, my question is whether over-feeding sugar is good, or if we need a little to help the liver, but too much fructose overloads the liver. I personally think sleep is the primary driver in raising metabolism, but i’m starting to believe that food and sleep have an even closer relationship than i had previosuly thought.
I find it interesting you preferred fat and sugar. Being a former Paleo, i ate plenty of fat but i was very light on sugar even though i craved it. Matt helped me consider that if the body is craving something, there is a reason, but i could never get my head around the idea that sugar was healthy. I still clinged to the idea that frutose and Omega-6 overconsumption were the main problems in SAD, but my recent study of all the people eating honey to sleep better and the Hibernation Diet (thanks again Dutchie) have led me to believe that fructose plays a vital role in health (which i written about on other posts).
I’m still debating the health benefits of table sugar and HFCS vs fruit and honey (there are small differences in the how those sugars such a sucrose bond the glucose and fructose together whereas in fruit and honey, the fructose and glucose are not bonded) , but i agree with you that eating sugar is important. A spoonful of honey does a good job of killing my sweet tooth. Seeing that you crave sweet and fat, have you tried Matt’s recipe for “half-asses” (molasses and half and half) or honey and whole milk, or honey on cheese? Just wondering if you have looked at other fat/sugar combos without drinking soda (not that i’m saying soda is bad) or if they don’t satisfy you?
I do find it interesting that humans have limited interest in pure starch. A plain baked potato is boring, but cut it and fry it in butter and then dip in ketchup and its amazing. Essentially, you had to add fat, salt, and sugar. And i dare anyone to eat plain oatmeal.
Thanks for the reply. I had posted an article on anabolic resistance in the articles section of this forum and it seemed to stress that too much overfeeding did cause some issues. I’ve simply tried to go back to a state where i am never hungry, but never force feeding either. Reading Food Ninja made me think of being a kid. My dad used to tell the story of me eating as i kid. I would eat until full and then just stop. Once he said i was eating ice cream, i was in the middle of a bowl and i brought the spoonful of ice cream to my mouth, looked at it, and put it down, pushing the bowl away. I’ve tried to regain that type of intuitive eating. I just eat what i want but i don’t overfeed. The recovery intake of 4,000 cal mentioned by Ancel Keys was after guys had been starved. You were taking in 5-6,000. That’s an impressive amount, but i can see where it might have been too much. Were you “forcing” yourself to eat that much or was it your normal appetite?
I know you replied the link was broken on the anabolic resistance article so hopefully this one works.
http://www.t-nation.com/diet-fat-loss/anabolic-resistance-how-mass-diets-can-hurt-you
David, i appreciate you sharing your thoughts. I think there is something to feeling better with over-eating as insulin can push tryptophan into the brain which becomes serotinin.
You also said: “When I finished my overfeeding period (at which point I was eating 5-6k calories a day), I had almost no energy for exercise, and my appetite was bigger than ever. Unfortunately, all those calories deprived me of physical energy, rather than providing it.” My question is how much sleep were you getting? Were you getting 10-12 hours of good sleep a day with a afternoon nap? I ask because many people begin over-feeding and the first thing that happens is they get tired, yet they fight through the urge and hope their normal sleep is enough to heal. Food is a precursor to sleep (even though conventional wisdom says the opposite) as they are both needed to heal the body. Also, as my bias is shifting towards sleep (not exercise) being the primary time for fat burning, I’ve begun to see the lethagy as something you should welcome (if you can sleep) and that some of the weight gain is from not being to sleep adequately after big meals. Sleep is not “rest” ; its a very active period of rebuilding. Ideally, we could overfeed and be on bed rest sleeping almost around the clock, but that is not practical for most of us so we eat 5,000 calories but use caffeine or will power to keep the adrenals pumping, stay awake, and then wonder why we are not healing. I know i’m guilty of this.
I realize that everyone has a different health history and response to overfeeding so i am not implying this is THE only solution, I’m just saying that being tired should be viewed as a benefit to overeating. I used to get mad when i would go on vacation and after a few days of rest and eating i would get tired and just want to sleep all the time. “SLEEP!! i’m on vacation. I need to be out exploring and enjoying things.” One day i realized i simply wasn’t listening to my body.I started eating the honey three days ago. I go to bed at 12:30 and get out of bed at 6:45am although I normally wake around 4-5am and i did the same with a tablespoon of honey although i felt like my sleep quality was better. Last night i had a tablespoon of honey and i had a little meat and a bowl of cereal with whole milk. I slept until 6:30 this morning which never happens. I am going to continue experimenting with this.
As for the crossfiters, i posted on the EAT THE FOOD blog more about that. I don’t know why they lost weight. It could have been the extra calories, it could have been a boost of leptin, but from what i have read, they specifically ate the ice cream before bed. That sounds exactly like the Hibernation Diet and while diet, sleep and weightloss are complex topics, lightning doesn’t strike in the same place twice for different reasons. The author of the Hibernation Diet says that insulin drives tryptophan into the brain which becomes serotnin and then melatonin and then melatonin controls insulin to keep from dropping blood sugar too low.
Just a few more perspectives from around the web.
http://paleohacks.com/questions/153347/why-does-ice-cream-help-me-sleep-thru-night-but-sw.html#axzz2k9w184BD A paleo person found ice cream made her (?) sleep well. She tried a more paleo friendly meal at night – sweet potatoes and butter – but it didn’t work and she awoke with her mind racing. She ate some ice cream to go back to sleep.
Also, people over at Mark’s Daily Apple reported success, but 1) tried to turn it into Paleo ice cream by not having dairy and having less sugar or 2) stopped because they didn’t think it was healthy. From a poster: “So I ate my last pint of coconut milk ice cream last night before bed – yes I ate the entire pint in one sitting, 840 calories and 84g of carbs – and I slept like a baby! I lasted almost 2 weeks on the ice cream diet and didn’t gain any weight and have probably added a little bit of muscle. I didn’t eat the ice cream every single day, probably only 2 out of 3 days.
Why am I quitting you might ask? Well, I am really trying to focus on completely eliminating processed foods from my diet. And even though I found organic ice cream made from coconut milk, there were still some chemicals in the ice cream (including soy and peanut products). For me, overall health trumps gimmicky weight loss or muscle gain pursuits. “Thanks Dutchie. I spent much of last night reading about the Hibernation Diet and i have bought the book. I have insomnia where i wake up in the middle of the night around 4am and can’t get back to sleep. Ironically, i first bought Robb Wolfs book on Paleo because he asked: “Do you wake up in the middle of the night?” but Paelo didn’t help and then i found Matt and his Paleo myths which asked: “Do you wake up in the middle of the night?” but Diet Recovery has not helped my sleep. I am seeing a sleep doctor and working on sleep restriction therapy but i still wake up every night and have for the last decade. So i was a total sucker for an idea that i should fuel my liver/brain to sleep better since that is a very specific problem that i have. I found this website that has a good Q&A from the author of the book (you have to click on the comments for each question) http://www.hibernationdiet.blogspot.com
The basic premise is that during sleep, the brain is burning a large percentage of your energy requirements and it needs a steady stream of glucose which it gets from the liver – and you need fructose to nurish the liver. Honey, being roughly half glucose/fructose is perfect as it provides a little initial insulin spike to get sleep moving forward and then the melotnin secreted during sleep keeps the insulin in check and the fructose through a variety of reasons provides fuel for the liver to supply the brain with glucose. If the brain is happy, it will keep the stress hormones to a minimum which provides deeper rest, if the brain is not getting anough glucose from the liver, its going to secret stress hormones to get it from other tissues or produce ketones. Matt has recommended sugar and salt under the tongue in the middle of the night if you wake up but 1) why not use it before bed to sleep all night and 2) the author of the Hibernation Diet does not like sucrose and prefers the sugar in fruit and honey. While sucrose is also 50/50 glucose/fructose, the author believes (for reasons that i hope are explained in the book) that refined sugar has a much different effect than fruit or honey. We’ll see. Anything that can improve my sleep (I fall asleep fast but awake every night at ~4am) is worth investigating. Worst case scenario i eat some honey. Not a bad trade-off. As a side note, there was a very interesting series of posts on the Crossfit blog years ago where all those paelo and zone dieters found that eating ice cream at night made them leaner and none of them could figure it out. Sounds like it might coincide with the advice in Hibernation Diet as well as opposing the conventional wisdom mantra of not eating late a night. As Matt says in Food Ninja: The key to vitality is play hard, eat hard and sleep hard.
haha. I really like Kitkat so . . ..
As for Great Lakes gelatin, most mornings since i eat breakfast at work i get some grits (starch), butter (saturated fat), salt, and add some eggs i’ve brought from home or add some gelatin. I never had food issues, but i was just doing it to add some variety and balance out all the muscle meat i ate during my paleo days. I have not seen any change but i only eat a tablespoon or two a few days a week.I have problems waking up at 3-4am as well. My heart isn’t racing, but i never fully go back to sleep. I’m actually seeing a sleep doctor now and will report if i find help, but in the meantime i came across a Sleep Restriction Therapy article and wondered if anyone here has tried it. While its not completely consistent with Matt’s principles (because it appears to increase stress in the short run), it looks intriguing. http://gettingstronger.org/2011/06/a-cure-for-insomnia/
