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Wipergreaser. We can’t see your pictures. I will withhold comment until you post them. Create an account at tinypics (http://tinypic.com/) and provide a link to your pics.
AnnaB, I have JuliaG’s email and I guess I could email her and ask, but I don’t want to bother her.
Here’s the 180 Degree Facebook page: https://www.facebook.com/180degreehealth
You can also try friending Matt on facebook:
https://www.facebook.com/matt.stone.900?fref=ts@David, first of all, let me tell you that you are totaly rocking those sunglasses in your picture. Second of all, you’re probably right about too much water. Could have been that he needed more salt as well.
Well I am on the 180 Degree Facebook group, and I don’t see nearly as much action there. It’s too diffuse and, Facebook threads, even more so than your usual forums threads, are more appropriate for blurbs rather than conversations. Tim Berners-Lee (the guy who actually did pretty much invent the World Wide Web) has called Facebook and sites like it “Silos”. They are “walled off” from the rest of the Internet. If you were to do a google search on 180degrees, you would not be able to see the Facebook threads. You have to join Facebook, and I completely understand why some people do not care to do that.
For better or worse, 180 Degrees has become much less accessible.
Well, of course, it’s Matt’s dime so he can do whatever he wants, but I do wonder about what he’s doing. I mean, it’s become more top-down. The so-called “experts” write on the newsletter. Instead of immediate feedback and questions about what “the experts” write, one would have to come here to comment and, unlike in the old format, one can not expect “the expert” to participate in the conversation. The experts write “ex cathedra” and we “the peasant faithful” read. The only problem is that it would seem that there are fewer and fewer of the peasant faithful. Soon the experts will be discoursing to what remains of the choir.
Blurg, there are lots of problems with the 180 diet that perhaps weren’t apparent when we first started experimenting with it. It would be good to have those old debates around the subject, but there *seems* to be so little traffic here and so dispersed that it’s not even worth attemtping it.
I live in the San Francisco Bay Area, not NYC, but that doesn’t matter in this case. Anyway I agree with what everyone here has said. Of course, I am going to add my own twist to the discussion….
Have you every tried making THE love with one of these really skinny women? I have. No fun. It’s like diving naked into a pile of rocks. Dry. Jagged. Ouch. I feel at those times like a Greek sailor who listens to the sirens’ song and rams his ship onto the shore.
@Kamberay. I am laughing to myself. I didn’t know anybody did the Blood Type diet anymore. Very 90s retro :) I was on the original Eat Right 4 Your Type forum when it existed on Dr. D’Adamo’s forum: http://www.dadamo.com/forum/archive7/config.pl?read=30254
I don’t know if his recommendations have changed, but of all the blood types, it was the As that fared the worst on his diet recommendations for that group. A lot of them needed way more animal protein than the quasi-vegetarian recommendations he was giving for them at that time.
That doesn’t answer your question, but I thought maybe it *might* help.
@Kamberay. I am laughing to myself. I didn’t know anybody did the Blood Type diet anymore. Very 90s retro :) I was on the original Eat Right 4 Your Type forum when it existed on Dr. D’Adamo’s forum: http://www.dadamo.com/forum/archive7/config.pl?read=30254
I don’t know if his recommendations have changed, but of all the blood types, it was the As that fared the worst on his diet recommendations for that group. A lot of them needed way more animal protein than the quasi-vegetarian recommendations he was giving for them at that time.
That doesn’t answer your question, but I thought maybe it *might* help.
@spacekablooey, thanks for telling your story. I would have said, “thanks for sharing” but that phrase has become so cliche that it makes me puke when I hear it :).
Glad to hear that you have benefited from the new “anti-diet”. You even seem to be doing Eat For Heat (EFH) in a reasonable way….balanced.
My suspicion is that this is an important stage, however, the next stage must be anticipated or people like yourself *MIGHT* end up reacting against the EFH and once again find themselves on the diet roller coaster.
What do I mean by that? Well, it is reported that there are people who do the “Eat for Heat”, gain some weight, but then, after a while, end up losing it. However, the few people I know from real life (including myself) who are doing something similar do not corroborate this. They gain the weight and it stays. At some point, people are going to get fed up with this and revolt. If they are not careful, this revolt could lead back to the “diet roller-coaster”.
Look I am not a “hater” of fat people. I am neither promoting the anorexic “super model” look. That said, I don’t think being overweight is healthy. “Overweight” is a subjective term, I know, and I will let you decide what it means for yourself. For me, it’s this. I am 6’1 and muscular. I look and feel good around 210 pounds (94 kgs). Now I am 240 pounds (109 Kgs). For someone my age, the effect has not been purely aesthetic. For the first time in my life, I have high blood pressure. That might not happen to someone younger, but I’m 54. It was a wake up call. Now in case anybody wants to challenge me on the blood pressure issue, let me say this. I know that the definition of HBP has changed over the years. However, my blood pressure has, at times, got as high as 170/98 and been accompanied by symptoms (dizziness, difficulty breathing, etc).
So what am I going to do? Well I am going on a diet! Not a radical one. It will just mean eating less starch (not eliminate entirely), eat widely, watch my calories. In the meantime, I have gone on medicine. Once my blood pressure stabilizes a bit, I will (much to the chagrin of the Peatarians reading this) replace it with L-Arginine.
My point isn’t to dis’ Eat for Heat. However, I really think it’s an approach that is beneficial for a while, but then needs to be superseded by something more moderate. Of course, the time spent beneficially following Eat For Heat will vary according to the individual.
Well, my point is just that. You INCREASE your chances of getting all the nutrients you need by eating a wide variety.
Have you ever noticed those people who ONLY eat boxed foods and fast food? Not too healthy. As I said before, there is a middle ground to be found between Junk Food Junkies and so-called Health fanatics. People may think it’s just important to eat a lot….that boosting the metabolism will take care of everything else. That may be therapeutic in the short-term, but I just don’t think it’s a good strategy in the long run. You might get away with it when you’re young (the demographic of most people on this board, I suppose), but it will come back to bite you in the ass as you age.
My grandmother, as I mentioned before, cooked a lot of greens. It is true that she “cooked them to death”, to use Ray Peat’s expression. On the other hand, the Chinese eat them lightly cooked…but cooked nonetheless. I believe eating huge amounts of raw salad is a relatively recent phenomenon. It was a small side growing up. In Europe, it’s served at the end of the meal, in small quantities to “clean the palate”.
@David, you say that you feel that such a simple diet covers all the micronutrients, but who knows what all of the micronutrients are?….It seems that what constitutes the essential or optimal micronutrients is not yet determined.David, at some point after people have overcome their orthorexia, they may begin to realize that whereas obsessing over calories and micronutrients was definitely a bad thing, there is still need to give some attention to these.
Now you propose an interesting solution to one side of the equation: the calories. However, what about nutrients? Your solution MIGHT not address that issue. And what about nutrients? Which ones do we need? How much? Etc. Etc. Well, there is no definitive answer to that question. It is frequent enough that some new nutrient is discovered, followed by someone making it into a supplement and touting it as a super food. Then often it doesn’t live up to the hype and/or it is found that when taken in excess without some other ‘synergistic’ vitamins, it can actually cause problems. So round and round we go looking for the right nutrients.
How to get around this problem? Simple. You eat a wide variety of foods. As wide a variety as possible. I think this is my only issue with your calorie solution. I don’t have a vast knowledge of the eating habits of the world population, so I won’t claim authority on the subject, however, my experience is that other cultures do eat a wide variety of foods, barring famine, drought or some economic calamity that prevents such.
This is a major point of contention that I have with Ray Peat, Rick Roddy and their merry crew of OrangeJuiceAholics. You drink your OJ, you drink your milk and coffee, you eat your gummy bears, you eat your salt, you eat those three fruits found only on the Yucatan Peninsula. Don’t forget the weekly dose of liver. Throw in a little Mexican cytomel and, basta, you’re good to go. OK, I am exaggerating there…but not by much.
While I am on the subject I don’t know where Ray Peat gets this wild idea that greens are only eaten traditionally when people are starving. I grew up in the South (of the U.S.) and my grandmother used to serve us all kinds of greens (mustard, turnip, kale, etc, etc) usually cooked in hamhock. The Chinese eat a huge variety of greens. Are greens anti-thyroid as Peat suggests? I don’t know, but they certainly have been eaten traditionally by people who are not in starvation mode.
