It’s almost time for a New Year. Instead of going on a verbose rampage, searching my soul for wisdom and inspiration to impart upon the 180 cult, I give you simply a gift that was given to me this Christmas by my 7-year old niece. She knows her Uncle Matt well. Thanks little Abby Dunlop. Can’t wait to eat something off of it.
This is the top side of the plate…
And this is the glorious bottom…
Brilliant. That is a prime example of an unpolluted mind. Kids know what's up.
Webmaster, I love your site. Thank you sooo much for working on it.
So, another update on my HED progress. Been eating for pretty much the same way these past few weeks, so that makes about 11 weeks of 4000-4500 kcal a day. My appetite doesn't show any signs of relenting. Although I've noticed that the thought of food doesn't really entice me that much nowadays, I still get hungry on time and have no problems eating 4 huge meals a day.
My morning temps have been slowly inching upwards the past few weeks, hitting 98.2 and sometimes above every once in a while, and for the past three days in a row they've been at 98.2 / 98.8 (always do one armpit right after the other, so I guess my temp is still rising after 10 min), so maybe I dare say that my body temp has finally normalized? Strangely, I don't feel particularly hot but have a more even level of warmth throughout the day. I still get cold feet sometimes, though not nearly as bad as earlier winters. It's sort of hard to compare though since I'm currently walking around in shorts and t-shirt indoors, whereas last christmas I was wearing three layers of clothes and had six cups of coffee a day.
Fat gain seems to have come to a halt. For the first two weeks since my last post I gained maybe a pound, then over christmas for some reason I put on another six up to 188, even though I was probably eating less food than usual, wtf? The thing is that my clothes have not been getting tighter and I certainly don't feel any fatter. If anything, those new pants I got a month ago fit looser now than when I bought them. So I don't know what kind of weight I'm gaining now, bone mass, organs?
My alcohol tolerance is way up. Noticed it just at this new year's party, despite drinking (beer, wine, vodka, champagne, etc) more or less continuously for seven hours, I never got too drunk or lost control, was steady as a rock by the time I went home, and despite hardly eating anything or drinking any water before bed and just getting 4 hours of sleep, I woke up without a hint of hangover (which I fucking never manage to escape otherwise). It felt like I got all of the positives of alcohol like relaxation and mood enhancement, without any of the bad stuff. This was also the first time in a long while I felt like I had the energy to actually want to party till the end.
I also think I'm looking better now than at any time since I began the HED, although the face bloat is really something that has come and gone pretty unpredictably during all this. I probably hit rock bottom appearance wise just before christmas and even had some acne for the first time, but shortly afterwards the bloat started to disappear and now it seems to be getting better each day. I still pack quite a bit of excessive fat on my lower back and behind though.
Sleep has been getting somewhat better, still wake up in the middle of the night sometimes though. My biggest problem sleepwise right now is just avoiding hunger before I got to bed, I can eat myself full like two hours earlier and still sometimes feel a queasy emptiness in my stomach by bedtime.
I also did some blood pressure tests with a home device, and it seems to be a bit high, like 170/90. Could this just be a temporary effect of overfeeding? Overall though things seem to be going fine, and I'm just getting more and more perplexed as to just what my body is currently doing with all this food I'm stuffing it with, as I'm still largely sedentary. Wish my appetite would kick down a notch soon, is all.
Collden,
Thanks for the feedback. My experiences thus far have been largely the same, although it only took a couple weeks for my skin to clear. My body temp is still low, but is up, overall, nearly 1 degree.
The high blood pressure I don't like, but would be very curious to see how it changes over the coming weeks. Keep track of it if it's not too much trouble. It obviously needs to come down significantly, and probably will as your appetite heads into decline, which I bet it will soon.
Thanks again for the response, and congrats for keeping it up long enough to get to the stage that you're at now. That takes courage. Even I have trouble mustering up courage to press on in the face of ass fat :)
@Colld?n:
That sounds great, very encouraging for someone who is only starting this stuff. Right now the only thing I'm noticing that my hunger is going even more through the roof than usual and I'm also more tired/brain fogged. I cut down a little bit today and mostly felt better, but since I'm not even sure whether I'm really "overfeeding" myself at the moment, I'tt try to stuff myself some more again tomorrow.
Your blog keeps getting better and better! Your older articles are not as good as newer ones you have a lot more creativity and originality now keep it up!
I love your niece's gift, Matt :)
So here is my 8 week update. I have gained 7 pounds and have been eating around 2000 cals per day, except probably nearer 2500 over the 10 days I was away at Christmas, when i saw the biggest weight gain but then i had no choice of foods and though pretty healthy i did consume sugar! (man it is addictive, having been off it 6 weeks as soon as i had some i wanted more which shows i have in no way broken the addiction). Temperatures have been a little lower this month so no improvement there. As the main health improvements I am looking for are: raised temps, overcoming allergies both food and plant(about to enter plant allergy season normally for me) and no weight gain on normal amounts of food I am pretty discouraged that i am seeing no changes only negatives. I hate the weight gain and all my clothes are now very tight. It is very hard to continue and very tempting to go back to starvation methods and low carb, though i know that this is a crap way to live too. My blood pressure remains normal at 105/60 (been there for years) I have wondered about the value of buying a glucose monitor and checking that daily? Loved the Metabolic typing article, mine is definitely poor. I am part way through Matt's new book so maybe i will get some insights there too. Happy New Year everyone
Doesn't seem sized for HED, but looks ideal for butter.
OK I am still reading Matt's book and decided to check my past blood tests for fasting glucose readings, last Feb it was 96 and the year before that it was 100, which, when i queried with my Doc, he said was just fine :( so I am thinking a glucose monitor would be useful, my triglycerides are fine as is my HDL but LDL is kept low through statins.
Matt
Thanks, I'm pretty excited about the turn of events these past few weeks, even though I'm probably not completely over the hill yet. The blood pressure meter is at my folks house and I'll probably measure it again sometime this week.
Another thing on the negative side I forgot to mention is that I'm still miserably failing the pupil test for adrenal insufficiency, upon shining a light onto the eye, the pupil initially contracts and after just a few seconds it starts to pulsate and slowly dilate again. This is what induced me to start taking vitamin C supplements, but it hasn't helped me on the test so far. Though I'm not sure how significant this test really is, since I don't think I have any other symptoms of severe adrenal deficiency.
Just finished reading 180 Degree Diabetes. Good stuff, and it's worth pointing out that it's written in smaller font and with tighter line spacing than the previous books, so even with roughly the same number of pages, it contains about twice as much content as your earlier work.
madMUHHH
Yeah, being very tired in the beginning is to be expected. I had that for over a month, and the aches in my back and joints persisted even longer. As I understand it, it merely indicates that you've managed to convince your body that the stressful situation has passed, and that it can thus afford to take a break from producing all those natural stimulants and painkillers needed to keep you going, that now is the time to shut down and recuperate. The worse you feel initially by resting and eating freely according to appetite, the more you likely need this.
Collden,
Your advice to madMuhh is probably right on. I also had a question. As I understand it, your temps were staying somewhat low, low, low – and then suddenly in the past few weeks after 2 months of HED they shot up over 98? Is that how it worked for you? I'm curious, as I'd love to tell Jedi to just hang in there, not to worry about the temps, give them time.
Jedi –
Overcoming any kind of addiction is very difficult due to upregulation. The longer you go without sugar, the less you want it, but as soon as you do have it you are even more sensitive to it – as your serotonin and beta endorphin receptors are more open. This gives you a greater high, shuts down receptors, and leaves you looking for something to spike those neurotransmitters.
Your low blood pressure is a sign of a low metabolism too. That is very low. Probably too low. Your doctor is probably thrilled with it though right?
I wouldn't freak out about LDL. Remember there are 2 types of LDL – one is protective and one is supposedly atherogenic. Lowering all LDL isn't a guarantee to improve things. Likewise, having high LDL could be good, could be bad. Depends on what type of LDL you have. You would be better to focus on body temperature and glucose levels, things that you can monitor yourself and which hold much greater significance in your overall level of health.
I know the weight gain is difficult, but see if you can press through. I have only gained weight twice, in 2 large bursts since starting HED post-vegan experiment. Both were when I was away from home and wasn't controlling quality and was eating socially – beer, sugar, lots of white flour, restaurant food with veggie oils, etc. I gained 7 pounds in 3 days the first trip away from home. I gained another 7 over Christmas but lost 4 of it since.
Hang tight and try to press through. See where it leads. I'll continue to explore things that can assist the process, such as Iodoral or Vitamin D supplements.
@Colld?n: Thanks for the information. I also just did the pupil test and had the same reaction. This could also be due to a sodium/potassium imbalance as far as I'm concerned. Though I'd assume that it's deifnitely adrenal-related for me and if I were you, I'd just give it some time, as you seem to have made some great progress nevertheless.
I guess I also should start measuring my temperatures. Seems like a very good indicator for progress.
Oh, and as far as I know, it'd be smart to take some Vitamin D at least during the winter no matter what. I don't think there are that many people who are not Vitamin D deficient.
Thanks for the reply Matt, I have just finished the new book, it is excellent and for a far-reaching audience. it feels like your research has been taken up to another level, well done. It also made me realise, as you pointed out, that my blood pressure is too low :( for years I thought that was great, and yes my Doc told me the numbers were outstanding and typical of an athlete :( :( Yes I am not too worried about cholesterol and argue roughly twice a year with my Doc about statins, I guess I will eventually go against him and come off them. I am far more interested in my temperatures, which obviously the doc finds normal too!!! I am thinking of supplementing with Vt D3 and I am pretty sure i will get a glucose meter too. I am back onto the no sugar(no chocolate in my case ;)) bandwagon as of tomorrow.
Matt
Well, looking at my temperature logs, basically, for the first 5 weeks or so my temps were consistently below 97F except for two occasions where they rose to 97.4. I don't think they changed significantly during this period. After that they went up to hoover pretty stably at around 97.5-97.7.
It took around two weeks more until I hit 97.9 for the first time. The following three weeks they fluctuated quite a bit around 97.5 – 97.9, going as low as 97.1 and as high as 98.2 a few times. It's only been in the past week that my temps have consistently been at 98.2F every morning. Actually my second armpit has been at 98.8F for four days in a row now.
So, in my case it seems like nothing much happened for the first 5 weeks and then my temperature started to increase in phases, rather than perfectly gradually, or suddenly jumping from 97 to 98.2. The readings have overall been pretty erratic, especially in the beginning, but I've understood that as long as you're hypothyroid, morning temperature can differ somewhat from one day to the other due to other factors such as how much sleep you got or cortisol fluctuations.
Thanks Collden. Good for everyone who is giving this a try to know.
madMuhh,
I agree. Plus, my girlfried is megadosing vitamin D right now and had a huge increase in basal temperature (she recently discovered her levels were only 20, which is very, very low). Can't say for sure that's what did it, but it gets my attention with these key details:
1) Stephen Langer talks about Vitamin D deficiency almost as much as he does thyroid hormone supplementation
2) Mark Starr talks about hypothyroid symptoms (from SAD to allergies to excema, dry skin, coldness, fatigue, etc.) worsening in the winter time. Since modern humans get almost all their D from sunlight, this would make a lot of sense.
I'm undecided about vit D. I tested way low and my doc gave me high-dose D2 pills to take for 6 weeks. I promptly crashed (don't know of course if the pills were the reason) and my test number didn't budge.
Here's the 180 degree take on vit D, if you haven't seen it http://bacteriality.com/about-the-mp/
I'd try to summarize but feeling foggy and hypo post-holidays…
I have been using 4000 IU vit D per day along with a high calorie diet. I have absolutely no symptoms listed in Matt's comment under number 2. Is the high calories, the D, or both? I don't know, but I feel great! The skin improvement has been quite noticeable. I have not once used any lotion this winter, and my hands are actually warm, even when outside in the cold air. First time in a ling time that I can remember going a whole year without getting sick.
Scott
matt,
just got into Boulder today, and took my parents and I to Larkburger. mmmm…. pretty good… didn't hit the spot like the Double Double from In N out. Didn't try there fries… had a very tasty pale ale there though. The chick who took our order hated life… I will have to try there other location someday.
troy
Holy shit Nell, that is a great link. A mind blower. I too have been constantly steered towards the idea that infectious disease is the root cause of illness as many will read in 180 Degree Diabetes. However, I don't view infectious disease as a given. I believe infectious disease invades the hypometabolic. It's a big chicken or egg question, and most assume that pathogens invade and we are more or less defenseless in stopping it, but experience and thorough comprehensive research has shown me otherwise. Our best defense is keeping our metabolism high, and eating of nutritious foods. This is why the methods of Barnes and now Langer and Starr provide some of the biggest health improvements of any known therapy.
Still, the jury is out. Russ Farris would certainly attempt to sway me into thinking that germs lower the body temperature, not lifestyles and diets leading to low body temperatures lead to infection.
I'll do a post on this soon. It really makes sense why Aurora's D levels are so low (20 ng/dl) despite her being an avid sunbather that spends her whole summer outdoors without sunscreen. She was prescribed the D for her jaw surgery due to low levels, and will be retested soon to see if the D supplementation helped. I'm doubtful, and the D has been really hard on her (and our plumbing, ha ha).
D2 is utter crap, a synthetic patented pharmaceutial plant derived frankestein. The real thing is D3, which is the animal one, the one we produce. Go google on that. I get from now foods, in olive oil, 360 capsules at 5000 iu, dirt cheap, no side effects. It seems like nothing prescrived by an orthodox doctor can avoid missing the mark, impressive.
Rice lover.
She's using D3, but by megadoses I mean megadoses. It's prescription level D3 – 50,000 iu (no, that's not a typo).
The argument in the link Nell sent basically states that the real, most common problem is that D levels are low because the vitamin D receptors are shut down by L-form bacteria. So 25-D blood levels stay low while 1,25-D levels become elevated. In other words, low D levels are a sign of the disease process, not necessarily a cause of it. I'm guessing her mom has quite low levels as well (breast cancer at 60, hip replacement surgery this Wednesday at age 62), even though she is 100% Norweigan and is the biggest solar whore in the world, spending a month or two per year or longer in Mexico every year and Never using sunscreen.
The problem is that 1,25-D is a powerful steroid and further shuts down the immune system and the D receptors. It gives the appearance of being healthful, as symptoms disappear due to the suppression of immune function (the symptoms there, in the first place, because of chronic infection).
At least that's what Trevor Marshall asserts in the site, while probably missing the big picture of what causes and cures disease that isn't an antibiotic. I doubt 5 antibiotics and complete vitamin D and sun abstinence are the answer to our prayers as he may believe. Very thought-provoking nonetheless, and the blanket recommendation by so many health authors and bloggers to take vitamin D and soak up the sun because D levels are low may be looking at the issue in an oversimplified way.
If Aurora's D level are that low, she will need some mega dosing to get her levels up then she can taper off. I've been supplementing myself and my family with these recommendations:
http://homefirst.com/info-1/current-health-news/vitamin-d3.html
and we've been healthy so far this winter. We're not usually super sick but with an 8 year old and a 4 year old at home we have our fair share of ickyness brought home from school.
Nell, that was a very thought provoking article, thanks.
Matt, thanks for summarizing the bacteriality.com info that Nell posted. I started to take a look last night, those are some long posts over there.
Do you think they are suggesting that healthy adrenal types should have a D level below 20, or is the 60-70 range optimal for persons with no chronic illness?
From what I quickly read, seems like they are suggested no D supplementation, and keep your blood level below 20. Anything above 20 is auto immune-suppression territorial… But this is if you are already sick?
I'm having my D levels checked next time I have blood tests done.
My understanding is that high vitamin D levels are still preferable. You want to have high vitamin D levels. If you do, then that is a sign that your vitamin D receptors are open and that you don't suffer from high levels of chronic infection. Those with high levels don't have many cancers or other illnesses. That's why everyone is hailing vitamin D, especially when Weston A. Price raved about it like he did.
But everyone assumes the levels are low because we're not getting enough, but it's never that simple with nutrients. For example, those with fructose malabsorption have low folic acid, zinc, and tryptophan levels no matter how much they ingest. Calcium supplementation does not prevent bone loss because all that matters is the calcium to phosphorous ratio, which is hormonally regulated and is only indirectly influenced by mineral intake. Autistic children have high mercury levels, which makes people assume that getting too much mercury is the problem, but it's the failure to chelate and excrete it properly that's the problem, and so on. Nutrient relationships are interwoven and infinitely complex.
The bacteriality site likens the D issue to hormone replacement for menopausal women. Trying to treat low estrogen levels by supplementing estrogen was one of the biggest medical oopsies in modern times.
They are simply saying that if you have low D levels, it's because you're not synthesizing it properly. It's a sign of disease, not a cause. And that the worst thing you can do to someone not synthesizing vitamin D is given them more vitamin D (because under those circumstances it is immunosuppressive, yet another reason it gets support because people feel great as their negative symptoms subside temporarily – not because they are well, but because the immune system becomes deactivated – meanwhile the problem gets worse).
Interestingly, Aurora's oral surgeon, who invented modern oral surgery and is the world's leading authority on the subject (Bill Arnett) claims that the vast majority of the malocclusion patients that he treats have low vitamin D levels, which is why he demanded the blood test. If Aurora's D levels don't come up with megadosing, which we both doubt they will, the next step is antiobiotics.
And what's even more intriguing, is that these chronic infectious L-form bacteria can even be hereditary.
If this is true, then Weston A. Price's belief that lack of nutrients was the principle cause of degeneration is probably incorrect (although still obviously a factor). It is more likely that refined sugar and white flour disrupt body chemistry so substantially (and alcohol, caffeine, and other drugs plus dieting and overexercising), that the presence of those foods fosters infection and invasion through the well-known immune suppression of refined sugar. But any incomplete diet can spark this degeneration too.
I've wanted to get the 1,25-D test done, but apparently there are problems with getting trustable results because the sample has to stay frozen and labs aren't managing that consistently.
Since I've got multiple gut infections, plus clamydia and mycoplasma infections, it wouldn't be a surprise if I have L-form bacteria too. But wearing weird sunglasses and not eating eggs seems so…extreme! For right now, I'm putting my eggs in your basket, Matt, and hoping that jacking up my temps with megafood will kill all those suckers off.
Let's hope so Nell. Bowing down to the mercy of the doctors behind this protocol and a strengthening of our germ phobia is not what the world needs more of right now. I believe chlamydia is an L-from bacteria BTW, chlamydia pneumoniae being the primary microbe behind arterial lesions and potentially heart disease according to many theories.
Good news. My questions about the Marshall Protocol have been fielded by Russ Farris and other members of his forum. Russ wrote (beautifully I might add):
"Trevor Marshall was trained as an engineer and became a "biomedical researcher" later. He's a smart guy, but he underestimates how complex humans are, and how much we differ from each other. He's rigid in his thinking
and prone to blame patients for the frequent failures of the Marshall protocol.
The protocol seems to work for a few people, but leave most people unaffected. I have corresponded with people who are passionate aficionados of Marshall and his protocol. I think it is like the proverbial stopped clock that is right twice a day.
I have an engineering background and would probably have a been as rigid and simplistic in my approach to health as Marshall if I hadn't had Bernie Rimland smiling and rolling his eyes at my theories for twenty-five years." Russ http://www.potbellysyndrome.com
Paula Carnes responded with this:
"I heard of the MP in 2004 and started on it, staying on it for 15 months. Twelve months I assiduously avoided all sun and sources of D. Initially my D levels tested at
25D 20
1,25 40
At the end of 12 months I tested 25D 17 and 1,25 D at 38. I felt no better or worse. The main reason I got interested in the MP to begin with was that I came from a cohort of patients who had mycoplasma incognitus. The antibiotic combo Marshall recommended should work for patients with mycoplasma and borrelia (It will not affect babesia at all, but he won't admit that.)
In 2008 I had my 25D level retested. It was still only 20 even though I had not avoided sun for years. So my doctor placed me on 8,000 iu of D3 a day. On that dose my 25D level moved up to 47 – still barely in a good, healthy normal range. I have also lost a fair amount of bone density and cartilege – but I don't know if this relates. It could be age or quinolone damage.)
I think the MP may be useful for sarcoidosis. I know some Lyme patients who have gotten better. A lot of the doctors I know who tried it initially have not continued to use it. Some have.
In conclusion, I think the 25D levels recommended by Dr. Marshall – under 10 – ARE GOING TO KILL PEOPLE. This is a good way to get cancer or become unable to withstand viral infections. But there are people who disagree with me. One doctor I respect is using the MP, but he gradually allows patients to increase D levels as they recover. The patients I rarely read about on the message boards are still wearing long sleeves, and dark glasses years into treatment. This is insane in my opinion."
Paula Carnes
Oh, well, right now there is one thing that is bugging me right now, since I started adding my starches back in. Probably nothing to worry about, but I guess you guys will tell me.
Okay, I think it is rather obvious that my adrenals are totally stressed out from (low-carb) dieting and my current tiredness is a good sign of some healing that is going on. There is another thing I noticed however.
Currently I'm having a lot of trouble falling asleep in the time frame from 10pm to 12pm. At that timemy body also seems to be kinda hot and there generally seems to be quite some energy going through my body. Now I read that the time from 10 to 12 pm is the time where the adrenals usually heal, so is this restlessness actually a good or a bad sign? It seems kinda obvious to me that my adrenals are somehow involved in that, I don't have any clue however whether this is a sign that my adrenals are ebing whipped even further or whether this is just a sign of healing, even though that seem counterintuitive at the first moment as the tiredness is supposed to be a sign of healing aswell.
That's an interesting one. Is your sleep quality still pretty good otherwise?
Hard to tell, probably not. I pretty much always wake up once or twice each night to pee and even though I'm probably getting like 9-10 hours of sleep – school hasn't started again yet – I still have a hard time actually getting out of bed.
Well I wouldn't freak out about anything just yet. Monitor how things progress as you go. Remember that weeks sometimes go by without any noticeable improvements. Try to focus on your body temps and don't read too much into anything else that happens unless it is really peculiar and alarming. A little restlessness late at night is probably not worth worrying over.
Yeah, it's just that it really is exactly fitting in this 10-12pm timeframe (also I read up on it after it happened, so this is not my imagination runing wild here) and there is definitely something going on in my body, I can really feel that. I just wonder whether it's a good or a bad thing and would like to know whether anyone here has made a similar experience.
Some have had sleep problems, even despite noticeable improvements. I think it's most likely related to the evening conversion of serotonin to melatonin, but I may be wrong. Maybe try DesMaison's tip to get more tryptophan across the blood-brain barrier. Have a very small portion of starch with fat (no added protein) right before bedtime, ideally 3 hours after dinner. This supposedly works because 3 hours after a meal there are no other competing amino acids to keep tryptophan from crossing the barrier, and a rise in insulin from dinner will send it on through.
Thanks for those D posts, Matt, especially the Carnes one. My feeling about MP has been that they've got some golden nuggets in there but not enough to make me do that kooky protocol. It's tricky when the failures are not on the forums anymore, yk? Heck, maybe I'll try some D3 and see what happens.
I've ordered ingredients to make your curry this week and I can. not. wait.
Eh, so how do we make sure our vitD receptors are open again? Just avoid sugar and flour? If they're being monopolized by bacteria we need the Marshall Protocol? Am I understanding all this right?
maybe kids who have autism with high levels of mercury in there system shouldn't have had high levels of mercury injected into them.. maybe they would have had a better chance excreting the airborne mercury there mothers we're ingesting without the vaccinations. Why don't we all take over 30 vaccinations and see how our immune system responds!!!
troy
Another article regarding vitamin D written by a Marshall follower:
http://bacteriality.com/2007/09/15/vitamind/
Just out of interest ehat do any of yuo think about the Wilson Syndrome etc? I have been receiving their newsletter for around a year and at least some of it sees to tie in with 180 degree views.
http://www.wilsonstemperaturesyndrome.com/
Jedi,
I was following a guy on a yahoogroup who's kind of a testing maniac, and he advocated having complete thyroid labs done whenever symptoms occurred, and was very precise about where the numbers should be — TSH around 1, and T3 in the upper third of the normal range.
It was true for me that when my numbers hit those marks, I felt better, sometimes even great. I need Armour thyroid supps to get there, but even with that and other supps to boost T3, I can't seem to keep the numbers stable.
I'm off to get a blood test done this minute…
Matt, that alleyoopcomment above was me. On my daughter's computer. oy.
Nell, Armour is illegal in France so I started taking a synthetic thyroid after the op last May. On my last blood test in Sept I was at 0.65 TSH and T3 nearing the upper third, but have no idea how stable this is as my doc only wants to test me once a year. I think i would like to do it every six months for the first year or so.
Jedi,
Those are good numbers at least! Armour is good for low T3 but it looks like you don't have to worry about that for now.
I lived in France 2007-8 and was ordering Armour through mastersmarketing.com,sending it to a friend in the US and having them mail it to me.
I do think dosing based on testing is a better way to go than the stopthethryoidmadness plan of adding more and more based on symptoms. Way too easy to overdose that way especially given interactions with cortisol, which is also easy to overdose on.
I sure miss that market in Bergerac! Sigh. The foie gras…
J'adore foie gras :) I walk several times a week to my local market and love it. I have a friend who has family in the Dordogne and he can bring me back big pots of goose fat :)
I am going to stick with these meds as long as my T3 looks ok.
I've looked at the Wilson Temperature site briefly. Focusing on basal temperature and trying to bring it up is certainly a valid pursuit. I'm not a doc with access to blood tests, so my specialty will remain finding home remedies and dietary and lifestyle changes that can achieve the same effect. HED obviously is showing a great capability to achieve it. Many other tricks will come along as we continue to focus in on it closely I'm sure. I still think drugs should be used as a last resort, even desiccated thyroid, and reserved for those that truly have a thyroid issue.
Kirk –
I think the only contribution the Marshall protocol can claim as of this point is that low vitamin D levels aren't always caused by low intake or low D synthesis from sunlight. Like all hormone and hormone-like substances, the receptors play an equally important role. The Marshall Protocol is a dumb, dangerous, and rigorous protocol to follow. It's a classic example of a scientist thinking the body can be easily tweaked without negative recourse.
Matt,
The comments here are as good as the posts and your posts are great! Regarding ridiculous seeming protocols, what's up with Ray Peat’s stance on nutrition. His PUFA ideas makes sense, then he says to eat a bunch of chicken fat? and eat lots of sugar (fructose is good) instead of whole grains? and stay away from fish? and don’t eat beef? I feel like I am lost in some strange universe without a map. Can you give a concise summary of his thoughts like you provided for the Marshall Protocol or is it beyond reason?
Thanks!
Chris
I think Peat says to avoid chicken fat and stay away from only fatty fish? I've read most of his articles although not so focused as they're very boring. Him advocating sugar makes me want to dismiss anything he says too but I try to stay open minded.
I really do try and remain open-minded and not just accept dogma we have "always" believed to be true, but I have a real hard time believing sugar is good for us. That said, I am watching those on Diet-Fucked who are following this advice, to see their progress over the coming months. Let's face it HED is pretty radical too :)
Thanks Chris. I'll do a "Sweet Peat" article one of these days. His basic thesis is that sugar is fine, it's the PUFA's that make it more dangerous, but he definitely has some basic fundamentals backwards, such as insulin increasing appetite – therefore eat fructose which doesn't raise insulin as much. That is totally backwards. Insulin is only a hunger-generating hormone when given to mice with no food. This induces low blood sugar and they will eat themselves to death trying to raise their glucose levels. Otherwise, insulin is very satiating, peaking shortly after you finish you meal. I don't know about you, but eating tends to make me full, not hungry, and the more I eat at a meal, and the higher my insulin goes, the more satisfied I am – not hungry.
Peat is radical because he believes there is no such thing as essential fatty acids, thinks getting a bunch of nutrient-free calories from refined sugar is no big deal and maybe even healthful, and that sucrose is the ultimate carbohydrate. Some people find Peat's ideas to be very compelling. I like his saturated fat favoritism and his emphasis on the hypermetabolism. Still, a human being should be able to eat a traditional human diet with the same success as those that came before us. That traditional diet, 90% of the time favored starches over fruits and, like the HED, contained large quantities of fat, animal protein, and starch with no sucrose or juices.
Thanks, Matt, Jedi and Kirk!
I can understand the need for a dramatic change, a 180, in the current nutritional paradigm. But when one turns one's head into the ground, the body is sure to follow. The selective citation of the fish oil scientific literature by Peat is similar to the selective citation of the vitamin D literature by the Marshall Protocol folks. Extraordinary claims require extraordinary proof, not in silico modeling or ideological fervor.
Matt,
You can get thyroid labs done without a doctor at HealthCheckUSA. I've used them a few times when my doc has balked at ordering free T3 and free T4.
I totally agree that addressing hypothyroid through diet is the better way, but if someone is more than a smidgen hypo, dessicated thyroid can make the difference between getting out of bed and…not. My numbers zig and zag and when they're really bad, I don;t have the energy to tie my shoes. Which makes shopping and cooking all that good stuff an insurmountable hurdle.
I have a question about blood sugar. I got a meter, fully expecting (after reading Abrahamson) to see mixed too-high and too-low numbers. Instead I've got 2 hour PP of 219, 3 hr PP 196. eek. Fasting has been in the 80s or 90s.
So…do I suppose that before HED the numbers were worse, when I was eating lots of fruit and drinking coffee? Or, you mention HED can make BS go up at the beginning — go up this much?
I'm freaking out a little. I'm horribly out of shape but not overweight, around 146 at nearly 5' 10". I didn't think diabetes was even on the table.
That is high but don't worry. I bet you it begins coming down slowly and steadily the more dedicated you are. If not, then that's certainly something we need to discuss. I'm not saying your blood sugar levels were higher on fruit and coffee, but I do think a diet of mostly fruit and coffee probably made your glucose response to real meals consisting of real foods worse. Track the changes over the coming weeks and report back. Remember the goal – good glucose response to a wholesome, satisfying diet. I doubt you'll get there if you turn and run.
Matt,
I've been reading Enig and Fallon's book Eat Fat, Lose Fat and they swear by cod liver oil. Then I read Ray Peat's lonnnggg rant on how evil it is. What's your opinion? I just ordered some thinking it would be great during these winter months but now I'm confused. I know my question is a bit off topic, sorry!
Surprise, surprise, but it's in the middle of those two extreme viewpoints. It's strongest suit for winter is its very high fat soluble vitamin content – particularly D. Fantastic. It's weakness is oxidized fatty acids, but they're not totally fried. Just in part. My pet peave is that the Price people think that it is some miracle elixir that we depend upon to be healthy. That's pushing it. You don't have to choke down any vile substance to achieve good health. But I think you made, overall, a good call in getting some.
Yesterday I whipped up that Massaman curry, but my attempt at making coconut milk was…not a success. I'm back to the canned stuff. So, any thoughts on guar gum? From what I'm seeing, carrageenan=evil, but guar gum looks OK. Am I missing something?
Also, that Wilson's Protocol site someone posted talked about how digital thermometers are unreliable once dropped, so I got a different kind…and yeah, my temp is a half degree higher than I thought.
I use Chaokoh coconut milk with no carageenan or guar gum, both of which I can't stand from a flavor, health, or mouthfeel standpoint.
I too suspect thermometers can be way off, especially if you don't let them sit in the pit for a while. I bought several and most ran way too low except for my Vicks thermometer. It is actually pretty accurate.