Delving deeper into our conversation from yesterday,’the best overall discussion of how the reward centers in the human brain?work that I’ve found is?in this lengthy but informative’slideshow presentation on pornography addiction. Although it may not seem relevant, it certainly is. The presenter goes into great depth about?food as well, and how it ties in.
While pornography addiction may be an extreme form of addiction, I can say, fully, that even just regular usage of the internet is addictive – extremely addictive. There’s something?innately’stimulating about being able to click buttons?and have curiosities satisfied within seconds. After many hours on the computer, I start to get pulled in and have trouble getting away from the internet.?Sometimes I will spend a couple of hours aimlessly clicking back and forth between social networking sites, blog comments, my email account, and other things that I like to check in on frequently, like the spot price of silver.
It has a strange and mysterious “oh let me just check one more thing” kind of feel. It’s like trying to turn the’television off before going to bed at night. You are constantly looking for?just one more hit of gratification somehow, one more?click of the mouse or button on the remote control,?and?keeping novel things coming down the pipeline by?being able to click on new videos or links or pages or channels?is enough to trigger the effect. Facebook of course is a perfect medium for triggering this “just one more bite” effect, and there are increasingly more tales emerging of people with serious addictions to it.
I was in real trouble when I was actively trading stocks and?currencies on the Forex market for a while in 2009. Yikes. I must have hit the refresh button 100 times per day for a while there, and eventually had trouble sleeping at night. Fortunately, the escalation process took hold of me, I began to take increasingly daring risks, and eventually lost all the money I had to play with. This may sound bad, but I got my life back, and immediately stopped spending half of my day?playing George Soros. It was the best thing that could have happened to me at that point. Of course, this is typical behavior for any gambling addict. It is an escalation process in which the rational mind is gradually replaced by the allure of the next?big thing.
Anyway,’this video series is just great.?Since?all forms of addiction share’the same basic characteristics,I actually find the fact that it is based specifically on pornography to be a very?entertaining choice – reminiscent of a funny skit by Dave Chappelle about the internet. As it pertains to the usual topic of weight regulation, anyone and everyone can see that, even if many cases of obesity have nothing to do with addiction and the?”just one more bite” allure of many modern, processed, over-stimulating foods, that certainly many cases of obesity have EVERYTHING to do with it. Addiction shares the same pathology, and operates?by the same neurocircuitry – mostly the dopaminergic system.?It’s?fascinating, and was certainly worth my time to watch.?And yes,?I’m addicted to watching youtube videos on my phone. But I keeps it educational baby so it at least?has something to?offer!
How to RAISE YOUR METABOLISM.
Didn't see the videos, but here are a couple of interesting links about the nature of porn and how it fucks with our heads:
From Cracked, on porn addiction;
http://www.cracked.com/article_15725_the-10-steps-to-porn-addiction-where-are-you.html
And from Naomi Wolf,
nymag.com/nymetro/news/trends/n_9437/
about how widespread porn did mess with American men, but not in the way anti-porn feminists thought it would (hyper-sexualizing men and making assault more common). Instead, hyper-sexualization made men less interested in regular old sex with real non-porn women. Good parallel to hyper-palatable industrial foods and even the most flavorful real foods.
Very interesting post, Matt, though I'm sure there's more to the topic of addiction. Haven't finished all the videos though.
ALso, I wanted to repost certain comments, one from Michael Miles and one mine that I think are important if you are going to continue studying Peat:
?It has been a long time since I have dived deep into Peat [since I usually walk away grumbling about some study he cited that when looked up doesn't demonstrate his point :-)] – but if IIRC he doesn't dismiss activity/exercise per se, but is not a model of clarity either on the issue. It is easy to walk away with the idea that he is anti-exercise, period.
It is kind of like reading some of the WAPF site and materials. One can easily walk away with a perceived low carb message (at least in the past) despite the emphasis on dairy and grains.(Michael)
In response to that, I wrote:
?BTW, Michael, so you have too noted that problem with Peat and his references-studies? Stephan Guyenet was upset because of that too. Specially in e-mails I have noted the evidence he gives is not the best for the topic, and get the hunch that he just takes too much from too little. If that's a pattern, I say it is MUCH WORSE than any critique Matt has given, and a matter for concern. I hope Matt is proof checking the evidence Peat shows, and at least reading some of the studies he uses. I find it a bit disheartening, but it's got to be done…
FOR SCIENCE!
Ehem, sorry.
Matt himself said: "We just don't know and no one can be trusted. What people say works is meaningless. What they use as evidence of their beliefs is meaningless."
Those are some harsh words, but I guess that the minimum one can do is at least check the data, even if it's possible that the data may be false. It's one step closer to the true, and I'm yet to see an investigator that justs outright gives false data (God saves us!!!). Someone should write a blog post about that. That's also why it bothers me that Matt often forgets to give references for some of his statements. One could lie, or just get the facts wrong because of imperfect memory, etc.
I think it’s important, for obvious reasons. Sorry, I didn’t clean up the silly humor :-).
As a recovering (online) gambling addict and essentially an addict to anything I've been able to get addicted to (which is everything..) the last couple posts are quite refreshing. I have transfered my addictions to nearly everything else (low-carb/orthorexia, endless blog reading, my own negative thoughts, etc..) so it seems as the addictive brain seems hard to satisfy within the confines of this very addictive world.
I sense that nearly every action I take is on some level of the addiction pathway – some scale that produces a hit to the addictive neuropathways within. Even relative benign thoughts crossover to this addiction spectrum.
The inability to let go of the computer is a classic example for me. I've stayed up all night with my laptop on my stomach laying in bed just trying to get that one last good click. It never gets there and then the next day starts and you crash hard..
All is not lost as I have been recovering (non-linearly) over the past 18 months or so with a variety of 12 step meetings, counseling, anxiety help and just being around honest people willing to share their experiences.
Deer Sex is hot. Who wouldn't get addicted to watching that???
um. anyway…
One of the problems with that kind of "click" addiction is that I can't stand to watch video clips on my computer. About 10 seconds in I start to squirm and get an overwhelming desire to check one of my other open tabs (facebook, email, drudge, Apmex lol, etc) to see if anything "new" has happened.
So I didn't watch your videos yet.
Its interesting what he says about how overstimulation of the reward and motivational systems with porn can eventually cause chronic fatigue and loss of motivation, especially in the light of how he thinks overstimulation with food will basically do the same thing.
Because thats basically whats happened with me since I radically increased both calories and consumption of sugary foods like homemade milk-shakes and ice-cream. Contrary to what I expected, what with the increase in calorie consumption and metabolically stimulating sugar, my drive and motivation, not only for food and sex but for doing stuff in general, has actually plummeted since the reward intensity (in the form of added calories and sugar) of my diet increased. From a leptin/thyroid/metabolic standpoint this doesn't make any sense at all, but the dopamine/addiction theory predicts it.
It seems to go contrary to the idea that we have these separate motivational systems for food, sex and other drives, and that when we satisfy our need for one thing our motivation will turn to achieve other goals. That may hold true in extreme circumstances, like if you're starving your appetite will surge and your sex drive will shut down until you get sufficiently nourished again. But in normal circumstances, too much stimulation of our reward circuits with one kind of activity, say eating, may actually decrease our motivation to seek other kind of rewards. The implications of this for chronic RRARFing are disturbing…
This is a wonderful parallel, food-porn. Rob A–amazing find about the effects of porn analogizing to hyper-palatable foods!
Have you read Hamlet's Blackberry? It's pretty badly written, unfortunately, but it's all about the connection between information overload and addiction. Although he doesn't really address the specifics of addiction, he does suggest some ways to overcome it.
"The brain that changes itself" is next on my list!
Thanks Ela. Haven't read Hamlet's Blackberry. Have heard of 'The brains that changes itself.' Be curious about your thoughts on it.
One more thought about Naomi Klein's article, probably transferable to this discussion. She write:
"The reason to turn off the porn might become, to thoughtful people, not a moral one but, in a way, a physical- and emotional-health one; you might want to rethink your constant access to porn in the same way that, if you want to be an athlete, you rethink your smoking. The evidence is in: Greater supply of the stimulant equals diminished capacity… And feminists have misunderstood many of these prohibitions."
Reminds me of Ran Prieur's take on cars ranprieur.com/archives/024.html :
—
Of course I'm still anti-car. And in American liberal culture, anyone against cars is assumed to be thinking something like this: "Driving is an amazing privilege, giving drivers great pleasure and freedom, but they are selfishly contributing to ecological destruction and climate change, so the morally pure action is to personally avoid driving." That is nowhere near my position. Social change comes through through large-scale organized action, not disconnected individual puritanism. And my critique of cars follows Ivan Illich's critique of cars ( ranprieur.com/readings/illichcars.html ): that driving burdens and disempowers the drivers and passengers themselves. I'm not looking forward to the burdens of registration and insurance and repairs, but I still see the truck as a net benefit to me and the land. To paraphrase William Kotke: not only is it OK to use the tools of this system to build the better system that will follow it — ideally all the tools of this system would be used that way.
—
That is, it re-frames the debate about whether or not to eat something like a 'Cool Ranch Dorito,' or to consume porn, or drive a car. These aren't awesome things that we need to beat ourselves up for wanting, and moralize ourselves into reducing our consumption of. Rather, these are actions with observable costs, and if we can broaden our awareness to those costs, we may be able to make decisions that meet those needs with less cost.
That's sort of the non-violent communication approach to addiction. We're not morally flawed or fallen- we just have these important needs to meet, and the ways we go about meeting them sometimes are costly. So how can we honor what's good in eating Doritos, while recognizing that it may be a net positive to make a different choice. That a different choice may actually serve our reward centers stronger, though perhaps less acutely.
If the brain can change itself, and we can associate in a direct way the food we eat with the feeling of lack, then it doesn't take willpower to change that behavior, because our reward centers wire us toward health. Also reminds me of what I read on Charles Eistensetin's 'Transformational Weight Loss.
Non-Violent Communication Approach to addiction–I love it! Definitely a fascinating approach, and the 'winning over' attitude that acknowledges that some sort of need is being met amidst all the rewiring and craziness seems like a promising path.
Thanks for sharing the Ran Prieur parallel (the more you post on him, the more I'm wanting to make time to explore): having lived in a community with a lot of 'disconnected individual puritanism' over cars and other modern technology, I think the Kotke approach is far better and more powerful, and like how you apply it to food.
Just getting through the videos–some more thoughts soon…
Another fascinating thought is that the reason something is addictive is because of the perception of it being rewarding somehow. But having unfettered access to something diminishes the sensation of reward – or it least it can in some circumstances. Like a recent trip down ice cream lane. By the end of a week I wasn't enjoying it anymore. The pillowcase technique (for those who remember an old post on the 180 Metabolism blog about that).
Perhaps we can break the pleasure association with various addictive things as well. That would be another way to achieve it – by eating to the point that it is no longer pleasurable. I think that's one reason RRARF works so well at overcoming cravings. It removes the pleasure association with food. You won't see me sitting around watching the Food Network and drooling that's for sure. Years ago I would have been glued to it for hours. But food can easily lose its excitement – like making the kids go back out to the shed and smoke a whole pack of cigarrettes as punishment for being caught smoking – it associates smoking with illness and disgust and works magic for getting kids to lose their interest in it.
Kessler's theory of addiction is that we should try our best to avoid temptation. But that's much easier said than done. I would be open to ideas on how to remove the pleasure from things, instead of deciding they are pleasurable but avoiding them in fear of falling off the wagon. For me, that would never work.
Rob-
What you brought up reminded me of my argument against watching television. I avoid doing it because it "makes my life worse." But I really love watching televion. That's the problem. I mean, watching an episode of Colbert Report or Manswers is way better than real life. If I watch some of that and then turn off the tv I feel depressed, and disatisfied with normal stimuli such as talking, reading, going on a walk, or cooking.
It really does make the rest of life that isn't watching television noticeably worse. I understand this consequence, which is why I don't have a television around. Unfortunately, phones and computers tend to sneak up and do the same thing. And stuff like youtube, with endless "one more bite" click and watch functionality, is a heck of a lot more addictive than even flipping through the channels. Anyway, all interesting stuff. The mind has a funny way of interacting with all this new technology.
This is good Matt! Glad you are focusing on addiction and the problem with uber-stimulating foods. All of the people I know personally who struggle with weight have this problem.
I guess my monotonous diet of rice, lean meat, and veggies really works after all! Bodybuilders have been doing this for a long time because it works. I have totally adapted to this diet and don't really crave any junk ever anymore.
Has anyone else seen the new weight loss shows on TV?
THey all seem to focus on it being an issue with food addiction. Some of the people even have real physical withdrawl symptoms like a heroin addict. Especially when the sugar is removed.
i think i have ocd tendencies which i guess could lead to addiction. i'm pretty sure any first born child/person has been cursed by it. i definitely see it in my first kid. i am resisting getting any kind of smart phone or ipad b/c as a mom of two i believe it would be too easy to either spend all of my time playing with it or give it to my kids to play with and it ends up being a babysitter, which becomes awesome free time for me, but obviously is a ridiculous way to parent. i refuse to be one of the moms i see so often at the park with their cells ignoring their kids so they can talk or text–who exactly??
and we have a tv, but i have also resisted letting my kids watch it but for a half hour a day if that and my husband and i only watch it when the kids are in bed. i suppose if i really tried to get rid of the tv i would find i feel the same way about real life as matt, but right now i have this weird maybe irrational feeling that i wouldn't know what to do with myself if i didn't have tv. and then there's the computer and i can watch pretty much anything i like to watch on tv on hulu. hindsight is always 20/20 for me b/c at the end of the days where i limit my computer time i realize that i get so much more done. haha. genius.
i don't think i've ever had food addictions. i've never had a weight problem either. i've gone crazy and eaten brownies every night for weeks on end, but then they became boring and i didn't have the need for them or any other sweet for that matter. clothing and shoes is probably where i spend most of my ocd energy. or the grocery store. haha. for me it's that feeling that if i don't get it now i will never get it b/c there's only one left or if i just had more tshirts then i wouldn't have to do laundry as often. or it has to do with my need to perfect my wardrobe or refrigerator because there just has to be a way to make my life easier!
(reposting–posted this in the wrong thread):
(Having watched the videos):–so, this is much of the science behind yesterday's post on Kessler's book. And as testimonies like 'Nordic mama's and the 'pillowcase' strategy (as well as much of Matt's own work) point out, it's not always the way things go, especially if you can 'rewire reward.'
One thing I was struck by in the video series was the constant repetition of the 'constantly available (in unlimited quantities)' refrain. A commenter on yesterday's post also stated that that was the root of the obesity epidemic, not the starvation response.
But obviously, it's possible to have a starvation response in the midst of superabundance–except for my very lowest hells of anorexia, I always had to have tons of food around and I still hoard food!
This got me wondering whether it's actually _both_: the reward pathway intensifies the desire for the (stimulating) food, and soon enough everyone, brains thusly morphed, is on a diet, trying to lose weight and break the addiction: doesn't this sound like a recipe for epidemic starvation mode, lowered metabolism, rebound bingeing, 'check dieting?'
Rob
These aren't awesome things that we need to beat ourselves up for wanting, and moralize ourselves into reducing our consumption of. Rather, these are actions with observable costs, and if we can broaden our awareness to those costs, we may be able to make decisions that meet those needs with less cost.
Absolutely this has been my experience. The times I quit a bad habit is when I on an almost subconscious level I am aware of the true cost. In my experience the important thing seems to be that the awareness needs to be on a deeper almost visceral level. Just an intellectual understanding it doesn't cut it, I actually have to feel it on some level.
BTW – this is also is consistent with the intuitive eating idea – that we need to get in touch with what our bodies really want. I think that is what that deeper awareness is.
since overstimulation = greater cravings but less actual pleasure, i am going to do the following:
1. eat 90% bland (as in RAARRRFF type food, starches, fruit veg, meat, etc, with just enough fat but not too much), for the sustenance.
2. save the delicious foods for once in a while (frequency to be determined). NOT because they are BAD FOODS – but because if i only indulge once in a while it will be SUPER DELICIOUS because i have been waiting for it. That makes it a positive goal (wait for it so it is extra special and you enjoy it more) rather than a negative one (stop eating that you stupid pig).
Actually I have been eating bland for 5 weeks & i find that my taste for the treats has gone way way down, to the point that i can eat 1 or 2 bites of dessert & be fine with that. extra bonus prize – i lost 9 lbs with no effort to restrict calories.
Hi In,
Yes, I don't think 'understanding,' as the word is so often used, necessarily provides the definitive answer.
Much of this so-called understanding can be hinged on a theory, study, teaching, etc. The understanding changes depending on theory, study, teaching, etc.
One can be like a dog chasing its tail, forever searching for the 'understanding' which seemingly lays frustratingly just out of reach.
I have seen some profound changes occur – illness remissions, and seemingly miraculous weight loss stories – in the wake of insights of what one 'understood' to be 'real' or 'true', is seen not to be at all.
The brain has such an incredible number of neural pathways, and new ones can come into play, (some of the 'inner disciplines' can facilitate these possibilities) so 'understanding' can be quite a loose term indeed.
Matt, are you a silver bug?? :)
Ela- yep, NVC for the win. I'm guessing that folks who read the comments here are able to peg me pretty well, with the NVC stuff, kooky mind-body stuff, paleo- & anti-agriculture sympathetic stuff, eco- and locavore stuff, fermenting, etc, etc. Haha. I like it though, and glad to get a rep, if that's what's happening.
Really, though-I love both Ran and NVC, and there's stuff that totally captivates me. Glad youre jiving with it.
Matt- good point about removing the pleasure association of food. Wonder if it can be effective without having to get sick like you would smoking a pack of Marlboros. Or maybe that's just what's needed. It was a revelation to me when I read Jon Gabriel to think that the shitty feeling I had after eating 'bad' food might actually be mostly or entirely attributed to the sense of guilt over consuming the 'wrong' thing. It showed me how much I had taken to the habit of intellectualizing my eating, and not actually experiencing it physically.
I can appreciate too your comments about TV making the rest of your life lousy. Definitely grist for speculation and experiementation in all that.
J.R. and In,
Yeah-'understanding' as a term is maybe a little nebulous, but what you're talking about, In, is what I see intuitive eating as being about, and can maybe be described as some sort of embedded visceral knowing. I like that.
I heard some quote attributed to Heidegger maybe: 'We only conceive for lack of perception.' I take that to mean, we have to bring our conscious mind into things when the awareness isn't at a level deeper than that. And that we're more in danger of thrusting our imaginings into the world when we're conceptualizing things, and not simply perceiving and receiving them.
Anyway, maybe a different word than 'understanding' is in order? Any suggestions?
And last thing- anyone following Don Matesz's recent series of posts about fats? He got jumped on by two of the most level-headed dudes IMO in this part of the blogging world (Stpehen Guyenet and Chris Masterjohn) for talking shit about saturated fats over unsaturated ones on unsupported grounds. He also previously suggested that the obese Venus of prehistoric art overate herself to obesity by about 100 calories/day, which I tried to pull some more info out of him about. Makes me really appreciate being around these parts- the more nuanced and researched take on issues like bodyweight regulation, fats, atherosclerosis, even the seemingly glib designation of traditional diets as irrelevant. At one pint, he lists some of his observations of patients with high saturated fat intake (weight gain despite low carb intake, and increasing blood cholesterol levels)- things I immediately thought of in relation to 180, and the explanatory power of what you've written in respect to that.
Good stuff, amigo. Once again, I get the sense that you're doing some real cutting edge stuff here (blah, blah blah- always some mis-steps, etc.). Kudos, brother.
Sell! Sell! Sell!
Rob A, I would put more attetion to Don Matesz. His arguments aren't perfect at all, but there's something interesting going on there. Specially about omega 6.
And it's possibly protective role? I'm open to that. Would be curious to understand what that mechanism might be. I mean, he's against refined seed oils, which I agree are vastly different than something like walnuts or avocados, and the conflation of the two I take issue with around here, and other Ray Peat-centered discussions.
What in particular is catching your attention that he's writing about?
In general, I've liked him. Found him to be level-headed and bright on many topics close to my heart, including the restorative capacity of grass-based animal agriculture and he had great post about 'Shamanism as Evolutionary Medicine.' I also liked that he never caught on with the low carb bandwagon, and sees lots of nutritional value in vegetables. Plus his practically paleo on a budget posts offer tasty helpful ideas. So I don't want to totally talk trash about him. But just wanted to say that there's a lot that's old hat around 180 that seems to be newly explored elsewhere.
"Anyway, maybe a different word than 'understanding' is in order? Any suggestions?"
Hi Rob A,
for what its worth, the trouble here can then lie with the different word; in that we start to hang our hat on that idea, concept, theory etc.
'Understanding' is replaced by 'X', but in order to understand 'X' we use self-same 'understanding.'
The dog still chases its tail.
I cannot speak for In, but what I am trying to get at is that the neural possibilities of the brain are so vast and intricate – and with dedicated 'inner-work' (which may include meditation in some guise, but can include other practices) new neural possibilities come into place.
It is not uncommon to 'see' that what one perceived and understood as so real, no longer fits into the so-called previous intellectual understanding.
Consequently, some of the behaviours one had previously that were tied in place by the 'perception' are no longer relevant.
And so weight comes off, or illness disappears, etc.
I always joke that I'm too lazy to become addicted to anything.
I once even tried to get addicted to smoking. I gave up after a week. Too much effort for too little reward.
When it comes to being addicted to certain foods, I find it's because there's something in that food that I'm not getting elsewhere. Before I changed my diet, I used to be 'addicted' to a certain pack of cheese chips. My first dietary change was to just add coconut oil into my diet. Immediately I lost my desire for them and I couldn't eat a whole pack if I tried. They don't taste as pleasurable to me anymore now that I'm getting my saturated fat from healthier sources. I used to love bread and would feel deprived if I didn't eat it regularly. But now that I eat plenty of starch from potatoes and rice, I've lost all desire for bread or pasta etc.
Is it true addiction when it comes to food? Aren't we all addicted to food to some extent? If we weren't, we'd be malnourished and probably dying from starvation. And when people have high junk food diets, would they still feel addicted to those foods if they were given potatoes, butter, meat and vegies without too great of a calorie reduction? I think when people go on diets and restrict their caloric intake they do crave junk foods and they mistake that for addiction, rather than plain starvation (and maybe some detox symptoms initially).
I'll tell you something I'm addicted to that y'all (you all) are as well but are too scared to admit: refreshing this page and watching that comment number increase. It's like I'm playing on a slot machine that I can never lose. Right now I'm writing this on my way to my stinkin job driving over the treacherous McClellan mountain. Do I care about my safety or the safety of my beautiful '06 Tundra? Of course not. It's like I'm increasing my winnings just by PLAYING the slot machine.
Foodwise: You give me some Ferrari Roaches, the round chocolate truffles in the pretty foil packaging, and a glass of milk and you'll see an addict in action. My wife brought home 27 of them last night and could have finished em off easily. I said "just one more" 12 times.
Youyoutubers need to watch just one more:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0VFUOWzI1ws&feature=youtube_gdata_player
Hey addicts, 10 bonus points to the first person that guesses where I'm eating breakfast: http://db.tt/MQULP1g
Food.
Can't live with it, can't live without it.
There is the crux of the issue that we are always circling around.
Humans have to eat or they will die.
Our bodies are so freaking smart, even with our evil brains and crazy ass emotions getting the way, our bodies will do everything possible to make us survive.
So it makes perfect sense that whole foods, sweet and salty and fatty foods make our entire god pod go above and beyond to get them. Sort of like sex, when you are young and fertile that is :) Gotta have it!
Addiction is just a perversion of all this evolutionary stuff. I feel that if you give your body what it needs, the snack crack backs off.
My theory. Get our your bb guns to shot holes in it, just don't shoot your eye out.
xo
deb
JOHNNY LAWRENCE-
"refreshing this page and watching that comment number increase. It's like I'm playing on a slot machine that I can never lose"
Ha ha ha ha! That made me laugh! Right on Mr!
…..Or how bout a free Cobra Kai Dojo t-shirt
On Anorexia et al:
I just finished a book called "Brave Girl Eating" and learned a heaping pile of stuff about anorexia and eating disorders. It has not much to do with food. It has a lot more in common with an OCD or perhaps, depression or other mental issues. And it seems to like girls, esp girls in puberty. Take note that has been shown to be hereditary, perhaps like schizophrenia.
Also, against all my Oprahphobic tendencies, I have to recommend that you watch the reruns (it just ended) "Addicted to Eating" which focuses on a treatment center called Shades of Hope. It is on OWN and I am sure they will re run it. The therapy and stories are really revealing as to what does cause food addiction/aversion. Fascinating stuff.
deb xoxoxo
Wanted to
Mention that the Worst anorexics I see are both mothers. One over 50, the other around 35. I watched the younger one work out her entire pregnancy & found it very disturbing. Both are married to. It's a tough thing to overcome without lots of help.
Glad to know I'm not the only one who feels "depressed" when I have to shut off the TV at night.
I also understand the addictive buzz one can get from social networking…the immediate enthusiasm for something we post…the feeling of being witnessed.
Sure we get addicted to whatever gets our brains jacked on those pleasure chemicals be it food, TV, rec drugs, gambling, etc.
We like feeling good.
It is with our minds that we decide to engage our will to seek long term contentment rather than short term pleasure.
In the meantime, learning how to eat and move in a way that increases the odds of finding that
balanced peace and contentment is a worthy endeavor.
What I've noticed is that before I did RRARF I was a total sugar addict! I could not have a bite of anything sugary without binging on it. It was the reason why I said no to a piece of cake, candy, whatever. After RRARF I can now have a couple of sweets and be done, with no desire to keep going. I really believe that addictions like that can be cured with proper nutritious calorie consumption. Another thing I've noticed as soon as I cut my calories, I start showing OCD behavior, like tiding excessively around the house, putting things in order, writing neat grocery shopping lists -throwing it away if it doesn't look right, Having to do certain things on a certain time -when in reality it doesn't matter, and so on.. Things that go away as soon as I get sufficient calories.
HA! I was thinking to myself while watching the videos: "I've heard all this before.." Then part 5 shows my favorite book of all time; The brain that changes itself -It's all coming together in that little brain of mine, ha!
For those who haven't read it and want to know about the mysterious wonders of the brain, I highly recommend it!It's very mesmerizing! I love anything that has to do with the brain. Truly fascinating stuff!
Fuck porn. A great waste of time and it messes up your mind.
Btw, I'm thinking I've found (well not me, others, but I found their info on it)the answer to the PUFA riddle. Many plant foods high in PUFA are also high in IP6, which chelates iron (and maybe other toxic heavy metals?) Animal foods high in PUFA are also low in Neu5GC, which is responsible for ageing quickly. Beef and dairy are very high in Neu5GC. Plant antioxidants solve the rest of the PUFA problem for us, I'm thinking cayenne and turmeric. IP6 is a powerful antioxidant in itself, also vitamin E which is high in all high-PUFA plant foods.
So… Peat is wrong in condemning food for its PUFA content. He is taking one variable and giving it too much importance while ignoring others. So you got Peat with his trembling voice, and you have the fact that the people with the best longevity eat a mostly plant-based rather lowish fat and pretty low protein diet.
Hans-
Good comment, except for the porn part. It is a useful tool in relationships where your sex drive is 500% higher than the person you are with, and you need to stop smothering them with sexual energy – the only way to do it successfully is by losing interest in them…. I hear.
Flaunt-
Yes. I bought a bunch at $9 an ounce. Oh wait, I'm flaunting.
Johnny-
At first I figured it HAD to be Waffle House, but then I wasn't so sure. Looked like maybe Denny's. Help us out man – when you are done refreshing the comments.
Super-sensory Stimuli-
Clearly food is important, and we need to have our reward centers triggered for it. Clearly sex is important, and we need to have our reward centers triggered by it. But having sex with your old lady/man is NOT addictive. Having a tasty whole foods meal is NOT addictive. They are satisfying, but it doesn't lead to an escalation process.
I think we have to look more closely at what, in our modern diet and lifestyle/world is normal stimuli within the confines of what our brains are built for, and what is super stimuli.
Boiled potatoes and roasted pork ribs with no seasoning or sauce? They have carbs, and fats, and all that stuff. But they are not super stimuli.
Taters become super stimuli when they are fried, seasoned heavily with salt and flavor enhancers, put in a sexy, shiny bag, with perfectly-designed texture, and washed down with liquid sugar.
Ribs become super stimuli when they are charred, smoked, rubbed with tons of salt and flavor enhancers, glazed with high-fructose corn syrup-laden sauce with more flavor enhancers, and washed down with liquid sugar or alcohol and a "big messa conebread."
Clearly some can eat the most cracked out foods on earth and never become hooked or have weight regulation problems. Others really do have a porn-like fixation on food. Even the phrase "food porn" is being thrown around all over the place now.
Anyway, all fascinating stuff.
JT-
Yes, bland and boring and regimented and methodical and non-stimulatory. This is the common theme amongst body builder diets. "If it tastes good spit it out" – LaLanne's golden rule of nutrition.
Matt-
Waffle House it is! You already got a Cobra Kai t-shirt though. The Texas bacon cheesesteak w/ double browns, covered and chunked w/ a mixed berry pecan waffle and chocolate milk is a pretty palatable meal. It's holding me over 6 hours later.
Hans comment-
It depends on the use of the expletive. If it's used as a verb, it's a negative toward porn. If it's a noun, then there should probably be a dash between the two words and "A great waste of time and it messes up your mind" could be interpreted as a good thing. Is "great" great or "great" bad? Is "messes" good or "messes" bad? Porn is normally the "****" variety so I guess it's all a moot point. I get to refresh the comments so that's all I care about anyway.
It seems that finally conventional wisdom was right..the way to go is low fat, mod protein,high carb.
I dont understand then why macrobiotic fuk me up soo much (after about 6 month..soaking, fermenting and every shi! involved)
It seems that legumes are the way to go for protein sources (red lentils maybe?), I have avoid them for about 3 years now, I do think they were a big magnesium contribution which I lack going paleo (hate mg supplements).
Im thinking to start adding them again…anyone with good or bad experiences with introducing legumes?
@JT:
Are you familiar with cameron alborzian?…he was a model turn/ayurvedic practitioner…I cant believe his diet is based on two meals (max, he usually goes for 1) consisting on pretty much basmati and veggies, how come such a diet be nourishing in the long term??
Another (and for now, the last) update on my RRARFing: Probably due to raw milk, I was totally destroyed by some kind of infection, spent two days sick at home, and am not exactly fully recovered yet. Will be eating white rice for a while until my innards reassemble, at which point I'll have even more calories to catch up on. Blarg.
Not really much to add but wanted to say been some really interesting discussions recently and good stuff Matt -writings and comments.
Also I have to say really liking the new JT lately and the way he has been 'representin' since AS set him on the straight. No offense meant there. She set me straight and damn ain't she hot that way!!! Some women just know how to bring out the 'want to be a better man' in a guy. She is clearly one of them. Am I bias by her beauty? Maybe (ha ha) but thats beside the point. Sorry I digressed there for a minute but anyway. It was all the sex talk!!
@JT:
Nothing but props man. Good insights -you been bringing good points for discussions. Doesn't mean I agree with every thing but good representin' man.
Thats not to take away from anyone else here. Again great discussions and great insights by all.
So speaking of AS I wonder where she has been laterly?
@AS:
You still with us? Hope your ok and everything is going well for you. Did you go off and elope with Rob A? Or with some one else? Ha ha. Anyway miss ya around here!!!
So funny that the "paleo" world is realizing that high fat is silly and unlimited fat is just as new to the human body as grains. Matt you were ahead of your time buddy. I can see you reading these new "discoveries" with the smuggest little smile on your face. TREMENDOUS!!
I think we're a society of addicts. Or rather, we have a society set up to serve up easy, accessible answers to our cravings. Porn, hyper-palatable food, facebook. They all over instant, stimulating answers, but none of them answer the deeper need for nourishment and true human connection.
I purposely avoid them, but I sometimes feel left out for it. I can turn off the TV or computer at night, I like old-fashioned sex, I don't eat junk food. I really value the simple pleasures in life because they hold so much more value. But this makes me different, I think.
On the comment thread for the last post, Jane asked: "During your return to normal weight, did you have to reduce any macronutrient group e.g low fat?"
I guess my fat was lowered. Sugar, too. In my initial recovery I ate a lot of fat and sugar together, and definitely gained weight on it (which was needed). Then I lowered the amount of fat (slightly consciously, maybe, but it was a fairly natural thing). Last year I did the Rrarf thing (eating to appetite, not past it) but really ate a lot of fat with the carbs. I did put on a few pounds (maybe 5, not more).
When I stopped thinking I "needed" to eat a lot of fat, I cut back to what I really felt I needed (which is occasionally a lot of butter or ghee, but usually just a little bit). So, the fat again was lowered, and the weight came off.
IMO, fat is the biggest factor. It needs to be natural, though. Once I got over my WAPF idea that I needed butter in huge amounts and just listened to my body, I went back to the lower amounts of fat I'd had before and that I have now. I also eat a lot less olive oil than I did when I was first recovering. I think that's been a positive, too. Ghee is more slimming.
Eating whatever I want has done amazing things, and like other people have said it has totally blunted my cravings and need to eat a lot. What I want honestly is pretty plain and almost always whole foods.
Debbie–thanks for sharing the book recommendation. It's true that there's really not a lot to do with food within an ED, except that food is the focus and center of it all.
Definitely true that it particularly 'likes' teenage girls, but I was in my mid-20's before I reach my low points and I met several women in treatment centers who were in their 50s and 60s–freaked the heck out of me.
Hereditary too–several of my cousins (and living in different countries, very different lives)–kind of tricky, that, since no one _ever_ wants to talk about it in family…
Ela, get the book at the library, it's brand new and is a personal account of a mom and dad helping a teen get out of the ed. It helped me understand how hard it is to overcome and know what to look out for with My Sam. Just in case. I was interested to find out that just a small bit of restricting/undereating sent this girl into a total anorexic spiral downwards and fast. Scary stuff how fast it spins out of control. Addicted to food also had two anorexic/bullimics on that show.
deb
@ Matt
Personally looking at porn boosts my sex drive rather than curbing it. It makes me think of sex more than I normally would. The things I find effective against excessive sex drive is pursuing something creative, being very busy, fasting, or being fearful or hateful. Cultivating universal love also helps, methinks.
I'm thinking we're generally overstimulated. Seeing half-naked women online, on ads in the streets etc. (it really does make me think of sex when I wouldn't otherwise), a lot of the music, music videos, video games etc. are all meant to overstimulate us. Today's motto is: Are you excited?? Compare that to Western art and music from the past (pre 1900 mostly), it goes in a totally different direction. Mostly it is rather calming, or exciting in a controlled way.
@ Johnny
Thanks for helping me with my English. I meant that porn is a waste of time and no good.
Thanks Amy!
I do find that I don't seen to feel satisfied if I don't have a certain amount of fat or protein, even if I eat a lot of carbs. However, as you said yourself, I'm also realising that perhaps I don't need the volume I thought I did, particularly if I'm increasing carbs. Hopefully it will pay off eventually.
I have put on 37lbs in the last 2 years which is pretty depressing. However, I had maintained a low weight through slight calorie restriction, in addition to breastfeeding and doing a lot of walking for 4 years, so who knows what that did to my metabolism.
Haven't considered myself to have an eating disorder, but thinking about it, it must have been disordered eating to some degree as I wasn't eating to appetite.
Thanks for your reply.
Jane
And I'm not saying roll in the Shariah laws or anything! In fact I think that forcefully trying to avoid something is the worst way to really avoid it. Any hole needs to be filled with something else, or else you will fall into it again.
Does anyone know what effect masturbation/ejaculation has on ones metabolism and other health markers for that reason?
I am sure my metabolism drops after I ejaculate as I get noticeably colder hands and feet.
In addition I feel my immunity is lowered and also I get a predictably dramatic drop in energy or life force (chi).
I am genuinely curious as I masturbate /ejaculate on average twice a day and I sense it is having a destructive impact on my health.
Any thoughts gang?
Hans-
I'm just being stupid (normal). I don't want no beef with nobody named Hans. We cool.
Hey, I wouldn't wanna mess with a guy who has an avatar like yours!
Seriously, English is a foreign language for me, so if I am vague in my expression and someone points that out, I do feel grateful.
You guys and your big talk, just wait till Billy Jack comes to town,. He can foot sweep and face kick with the best of them, just watch:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P6ZMeRshPR0
Johnny may need to change his screen name, just sayin'
Deb–I think it's great that you're looking out for Sam. But so long as you're 'normal' and non-weird about food in the home, that should help a lot.
It _is_ scary how some people end up anorexic as a result of eg a car accident and then not being able to eat because of injuries (like Matt described of his lady friend, and I was in treatment with someone like that).
A book my therapist recommended my husband read (but told me _not_ to read because triggering) was 'Biting the Hand that Starves You.'
Slaphappy wrote:
"So speaking of AS I wonder where she has been latery?"
Yeah AS- doing ok, dear lady?
Deb, in my experience it's the situation at home that triggers ED. If you have a healthy home life with open communication, Sam will probably be okay. Personally, I came from an unhappy childhood with a family that didn't communicate and said stuff that led me to have horrible self-esteem. Food was what I could control and thinness was a source of self-esteem. Once I started working the family stuff out, I was able to overcome the ED. Everyone I know with an ED have family issues (though not all are in tune with it). ED is a coping mechanism for really horrible situations that you can't face. It allows you to avoid dealing with it. Stuff can trigger an ED, but you need the right background for it to be triggered.
It's good to know the signs, but if you take care of the emotional stuff, an ED won't happen.
Ela, is that your experience, as well?
Yes, Amy, I agree with that. Aside from other stuff, I got very loaded messages about food from my dad (kind of a spiritual renunciation-type deal, revulsion for anyone taking any interest in food, 'you can't possibly be hungry, we just ate, you're a slave to your stomach'-type stuff (whilst being a sweet addict himself lol)) and my mom was always hiding the treats (which my brother would then find and steal)…
I had thought that having celiac and other food allergies predisposed me to locate trauma and angst in the food world, but as soon as I started dealing with the emotional stuff, it all went back to being judged and criticized and condemned in childhood.
Maybe the celiac etc came out of that instead. That would be a really sick twist, since I made myself ill for years as a kid eating gluten because my dad thought the whole celiac thing was psychosomatic…
Ela and Amy:
Yeah, I can see how some of those messages could wound you and cause you to seek control via the body. The more I think about my mom and dad the more I see the food disfunctions. I will do a post about it one day, it's some crazy shiz.
Everyone Else:
What? You guys don't like Billy Jack? jeez… must be too young I guess.
the hag xo
Ejaculate?
LOL, I remember back in the day when Matt put up some affiliate-like post convincing people to sign up for a website or something. Sounded like a pyramid scheme. Luckily he quickly realized the nonkosherness and deleted the post.
I dunno, when he mentioned silver and trading, it reminded me of that old post
Great post… love the direction the blog is taking. Matt, you write with even greater power and clarity these days.
Here's a very interesting website about the effect of sex/porn on the brain. http://www.reuniting.info
Wow, glad to see the infamous Matt Stone is also a sliver bug.
Did you buy the dip with both hands?
I'm dry powder till the beginning of July when QE-infinity starts. If the broad market takes a haircut and silver gets knocked down under $30, I'm playing some AGQ paper as additional leverage.
And yea, I know the feeling of "refresh." I've tried to limit watching Forex real time and just checking Kitco a few times. The volatility can absolutely suck you in.
Matt & other silverbugs,
Have you ever heard of the blog http://www.fofoa.blogspot.com ? The main focus of the blog is gold, but you will still get a lot out of it.
FOFOA is in some ways like the Matt Stone of the economics / monetary policy / financial system / precious metals blogosphere: independent & not as well known, but highly intelligent & perceptive & open-minded and, therefore, very ahead of the curve.
Here is a good article to start with:
http://fofoa.blogspot.com/2008/09/freegold.html
Full disclosure: I'm a goldbug – although I do think owning physical silver is much better than any dollar denominated asset.
A few more of FOFOA's best articles:
http://fofoa.blogspot.com/2009/03/all-paper-is-still-short-position-on.html
http://fofoa.blogspot.com/2010/12/focal-point-gold.html
http://fofoa.blogspot.com/2010/10/its-flow-stupid.html
http://fofoa.blogspot.com/2010/09/just-another-hyperinflation-post.html
Sirch – I love FOFOA and have read a handful of his writings, but I have to admit it's difficult to get through his extended thoughts. If he just did a bullet point, highlights or cliffs I think his message would be more well understood.
Nonetheless, I stop by everyday. Read the entire Costata piece on silver and have my reservations with some of it, but overall loved it. In the end, we may just be owning the wrong metal. Credit to him, look at gold in other currencies other than the $US and how it's helping $US-price gold up, and as it seems of late, silver as well.