Over the weekend I was asked a question about anorexia, and since my thoughts and feelings about the disease are so vast, I saved my reply to this anonymous poster for its very own blog post (note, that is NOT a photo of the person who wrote the following)?
I have had anorexia for 6-7 years now and I need and want out. I have gone from ?conventional? treatment where people shove ice cream and subs in your face to LC because it helped me mentally calm down and distress, then to VLC and then ZC then back up the ladder to VLC and LC now. I eat a shitload of protein and fat and slowly and upping my carbs. My blood sugar is shot. My adrenals are shit. My cortisol is well, shit as well. I have some incredible hypoglycemia problems. Like another person who commented on your blog, ANY form of exercise sends my blood sugar through the roof. My waking blood sugar is over 100 and stays there until I eat and usually post meal is anywhere from 60-90. I played around with Martin’s intermittent fasting because, yeah I am a dumbass. I am starting your book now, thank you.
I guess my question is this? you have read Ancel Keys ENTIRE starvation study and experiment. Well, I am like the prime candidate for overcoming what those people went through and getting my body out of starvation. Any steps, help, ideas are more than welcome.
To begin with, anorexia is a lot more complex than most people give it credit for. It’s also a lot more dangerous and debilitating than many give it credit for as well. In the words of Furious Pete, former anorexic that nearly died from it ? ?it’s a bitch of an illness.
Most assume that anorexia is purely psychological, stemming from body image issues and a desire to appear like supermodels or something like that. While this mentality can certainly instigate undereating and lead to the powerful physical and psychological addiction that best describes anorexia, once the disease has set in, to say that it is purely psychological is a huge error.
I liken anorexia to addiction. From what I suspect, most cases of anorexia begin with a desire to lose weight. When someone loses weight as we have been discussing at length over the past month, this is accompanied by a large rise in catecholamines ? the adrenal hormones that break down both fat and muscle tissue to be used as fuel. This breaking down of body tissues is referred to as ?catabolism. Catabolism? catecholamines. Coincidence?
Along with the rise in catecholamines comes a rise in neurotransmitters dopamine and beta-endorphin. These are energizing. Pain goes away. A state of subtle euphoria sets in, and we get a little ?high? from it. We are talking about opiate substances here, and they are very addictive ? as addictive if not more addictive than actual opiate drugs. Dopamine? dope. Coincidence?
Anything that causes a big rise in catecholamines typically triggers a rise in beta endorphin and dopamine. That’s why you hear so much ?buzz? from those who practice intermittent fasting for example, on how good they feel, how much energy they have, how clear and focused their thinking is, etc. They are getting a natural high, just like vigorous exercisers get. Very low carbohydrate eating often has the same impact, and while an anorexic can self-medicate by keeping carbs low enough to trigger dopamine and beta endorphin release, it is counterproductive to recovery for reasons explained below.
The problem is when a person with susceptible physiology meets activities and substances that spike these neurotransmitters to great highs. This is what makes the difference between a person that gets addicted and one that does not. What is susceptible physiology? Susceptible physiology is someone who naturally produces LOW amounts of these neurotransmitters for whatever reason ? typically poor nutritional history on behalf of themselves and their parents I suspect, as nutrition needs to be excellent in order to have sound production of these neurochemicals (naturally weak adrenals may in part be responsible as well ? and there’s no doubt that adrenal stressors heighten a person’s susceptibility to addiction).
When levels are naturally low, substances or activities that spike these neurotransmitters are particularly alluring. That’s because a person that naturally has low levels of these neurotransmitters correspondingly has a lot of receptor sites wide open to capture this small amount of dopamine and beta endorphin. Anything that causes a surge of these chemicals causes quite a thrill ride.
At the same time, spiking these neurotransmitters results in what is called ?downregulation? in which some of those wide open receptor sites close down. This is precisely what makes anything that spikes feel good brain chemicals habit forming and addictive. With a low production of dopamine and lots of wide open receptor sites, life feels good, balanced, stable, and normal. But with a low dopamine production and closed receptor sites life feels slow, sluggish, depressing, painful, and so on ? the opposite of a dopamine high.
Once dopamine has been spiked enough, and enough receptor sites shut down ? even if dopamine production is still the exact same as it was to begin with, the person feels nothing but withdrawals and has the experience of insufficient dopamine, beta endorphin, or whatever. They need increasingly larger spikes of these neurotransmitters just to feel normal, much less good, just like any true long-term drug addict or alcoholic.
This is exactly the pathology of anorexia. A susceptible person starves him or herself. When that happens, beta endorphin and dopamine levels rise ? making the person feel VERY good at first. If a person manages to fight their hunger signals hard enough, and long enough with a large motivating factor such as body image issues to override natural physical feedback?
Then receptor sites start to shut down. Undereating, at this point, then becomes self-perpetuating and the normal hunger feedback loop is broken. Resuming eating once again induces instant withdrawals for which abstaining from eating is the medicine. Undereating, from a functional standpoint, becomes a drug to get a dopamine and beta endorphin feel-good fix. Without it, a person feels miserable physically, and depressed, lethargic, and dark psychologically. At this point, anorexia is not something that can be cured with a Club sandwich any more than a heroin addiction can be cured with a Club sandwich.
Before I go indefinitely on this addiction/anorexia tangent, let me get into specifics in terms of the questions that were asked in the email I received above?
Recovering from anorexia is like recovering from serious drug addiction and should not be underestimated. Any person suffering from anorexia, if he or she has any hopes of recovery, must first be able to grasp what addiction is, how it operates, and what MUST be done to recover.
From this vantage point, the psychological pre-requisite for recovery can hopefully be mustered. That psychological pre-requisite is one of understanding how the body and mind work, and grasping fully why eating makes you feel shitty and depressed with an uncontrollable urge to stop eating.
I imagine a typical anorexic seeking recovery is at odds with themselves, frustrated as to why they can’t just eat when they know they need to, and confused at all the terrible physical and emotional trauma they experience when eating. To get to the other side, it really takes full recognition of the problem, how to fix it, and a whole lotta self compassion. Otherwise you’ll just beat yourself up for not eating instead of realizing exactly why you don’t want to, taking it easy on yourself because of it, and taking the proper steps knowing fully that it is going to be a major hellish battle that every cell in your body will try to resist.
To recover, I believe that there is no way around achieving ?upregulation? in which the receptor sites for beta endorphin and dopamine open back up again ? allowing you to feel normal with your naturally low production of those neurotransmitters instead of experiencing too little and having an unquenchable thirst for anything and everything that spikes it.
A very low carbohydrate diet, in the short-term, could very well make for a substitute for anorexia, as could very strenuous exercise, as could various psyche meds and stimulants. However, that is ultimately trading one form of addiction for another, and is not genuine recovery. However, it can make for a great stepping stone.
But ultimately upregulation must occur. For this to happen, it is essential to focus on doing everything possible to keep beta endorphin and dopamine levels as low as possible. This, ladies and gents, is brutal for someone with downregulated receptor sites for these chemicals. The withdrawals can be major.
For someone seeking to keep these levels as low as possible, major tactics include:
1) Eating frequent, starch-based, whole food meals at above-maintenance calorie levels. The food should actually be somewhat bland, in whole food format, with some, but not too much added fat or protein (protein raises adrenal hormones and associated neurotransmitters, and really good food, especially sweets mixed with fat, triggers a big release of opiates that you are looking to avoid). A non-vegetarian macrobiotic-ish diet would actually be decent for recovery. This will also help in fixing reactive hypoglycemia, which I would guess nearly all anorexics suffer from to some degree (although it too will exacerbate hypoglycemic symptoms in the short-term).
2) Sleep a lot, including regular naps.
3) Perform various relaxation techniques, from gentle yoga and breathing exercises to meditation.
4) Avoid stress as much as possible.
5) Avoid strenuous exercise.
6) Avoid stimulants.
7) Avoid drugs ? recreational and psychoactive.
8) Avoid sweets.
9) Avoid anything overly pleasurable. The more miserable you are, the faster you are upregulating.
This is obviously a lot to ask for, and would require tremendous support from family members, loved ones, and potentially demand professional assistance like that required for a drug addict attempting rehabilitation. Unfortunately, I’d venture to guess that most professional eating disorder rehab joints, just like most drug rehab joints, provide many forms of self-medication from candy to cigarettes that lessen withdrawals and limit true fundamental healing of the core problem.
Once you have upregulated, be very cautious about meal-skipping, drugs, stimulants, stress, and other adrenal stressors that can cause a relapse, as your sensitivity to such things is greatly heightened in an upregulated state.
Bulimia shares a similar pathology. Know how miserable you feel right before puking and how euphoric and instantly healed you feel immediately after vomiting? That’s some endorphins for you. Addictive as hell if you do it enough to start shutting down your receptor sites.
For more specific lifestyle and dietary recommendations geared for overcoming addiction and more by lowering adrenal hormone activity via overfeeding, over-relaxing, and oversleeping,read this eBook DIET RECOVERY.
More on reactive hypoglycemia in a blog post this Thursday ? something many chronic dieters, hypometabolics, and adrenal gland punishers experience given sufficient time.
interesting blogpost.
Martin.
Thanks for posting this. I'd always thought of anorexia as a psychological/social disorder. I guess I've never been as physiologically susceptible to addictions. Although after trashing my adrenals I appreciate how complex health issues can be and how easy they are to slip into.
I like the point you make about the social support aspect as well. I think a major problem with a lot of these issues (and life issues in general) are when people don't have adequate social support. It's too hard to pull yourself out of a situation and build a social network at the same time. Especially if you are low in self-esteem or self-worth. In that way, a lot of these problems become like a trap with guilt and body image issues at the center of it.
I was wondering though… we're all going to do what makes us feel good. In a lot of cases, that's going to mean a catecholamine rush. Are people with poor physiology just always going to be susceptible? And what causes that? Is it nutritional deficiency's during key gestation and key growth periods like Weston Price talks about?
"I'm a male, but I used to be semi-anorexic when I was 16. My hands and feet were cold. I became very skinny. I didn't grow very tall, and I regretted it.
… I still look young for my age."
Dude! I can totally relate. As a young kid I always was a bit on the fatter side. Not fat by any means, I just had a little bit more than most. Sometimes I got teased because of that and I guess my self-esteem must have been very low back them, because I took it to the extreme back then.
At the age or 12 or so, I had a period where I ate not even close to enough calories and exercised like a madman. I got totally skinna and a mother of a friend of mine actually thought I was anorexic, which I probably wasn't.
Well, whatever, luckily this did not last too long, but I still think that this really stunted my growth. For several years I was one of the smallest guys in my class and even though I've grown quite a bit in the last 1-2 years, I'm still on the smaller side (1,74 or something like that). Also I hit puberty much later than my friends and I still look very young for my age.
As I said, my growth has almost normalized, I just wonder what will happen to my face. I'm not even complaining, because looking younger than you are certainly isn't a bad thing, but still I would like to look a bit more mature.
How old/tall are you, Organism?
Not much to add, but I was reading around the web last weekend about Ancel Keys' semi-starvation study and there were a number of articles I found that connected that study to anorexia nervosa and other eating disorders. For example, this one:
http://curezone.com/forums/fm.asp?i=1430817
wow, haha I got a whole blog post. Thank you so much Matt. This is awesome. I went to Furious Pete's website too like you said. Between those huge weights he picks up and 72 oz steaks i think i found some inspiration! i did not even expect you to reply to my email so really i am thankful for this!
only question before i get to it and rereading the post… what is a starch based meal? like roots and tubers??? gee golly it sounds like an instant weight gain yes i am scared
everything you said rings so true. i really get high from starving, high from exercising, and the more i give in and do it the more it takes to feel it again.
This excepr is money…
"From this vantage point, the psychological pre-requisite for recovery can hopefully be mustered. That psychological pre-requisite is one of understanding how the body and mind work, and grasping fully why eating makes you feel shitty and depressed with an uncontrollable urge to stop eating.
I imagine a typical anorexic seeking recovery is at odds with themselves, frustrated as to why they can’t just eat when they know they need to, and confused at all the terrible physical and emotional trauma they experience when eating. To get to the other side, it really takes full recognition of the problem, how to fix it, and a whole lotta self compassion. Otherwise you’ll just beat yourself up for not eating instead of realizing exactly why you don’t want to, taking it easy on yourself because of it, and taking the proper steps knowing fully that it is going to be a major hellish battle that every cell in your body will try to resist. "
I wish my parents, who i do not live with, could in anyway grasp how hard frikin eatig is. good days or bad days it is SOOOO up and down
im gonna link to this blog post and do a recap and mention your 9 steps. makesperfect "sense" to me but obviously my mind and me following through is going to be hell. i have no support team, no doctor, a mon-fri desk job, sleep problems etc etc
Ancel Keys actually discusses anorexia in The Biology of Human Starvation, complete with photos of several subjects.
AaronF-
Hard to say what makes people more susceptible to addiction than others, but as its known with alcoholism, there is a major hereditary component.
And yes, it's hard to find help for recovery from any addiction, especially anorexia, because people just don't understand it. When others know that all a person has to do to heal themselves is eat and they won't do it, it can be extremely painful and frustrating if you don't understand the physiology behind it. But there's no doubt it's an addiction.
I found this site early this morning. Whoa, so crazy!
http://anaregzig.blogspot.com/
I think many people will find this counterintuitive:
> 9) Avoid anything overly pleasurable.
But makes sense. Our constant search for overstimulating activity contributes to excessive cortisol secretion.
I also agree regarding naps, but they cannot be too long:
http://healthcorrelator.blogspot.com/2010/07/power-napping-stress-management-and-jet.html
Thanks Malpaz-
By starch-based meal I mean a meal that is primarily comprised of corn, beans, potatoes, yams, rice, oats, buckwheat, etc.
It's only fattening when you…
1) Have a major tendency towards weight gain, which, you probably will
and…
2) Eat a lot of fat with it
I've lost a considerable amount of bodyfat in the last 3 weeks eating this way though, and even avoided weight gain coming off of a month of zero carb by eating very low in fat (as well as protein).
Anyway, best of luck. You might have good luck transitioning by choosing a new addiction. Furious Pete's appears to be Crossfit :), which is good because at least it is not catabolic exercise even though the intensity level lends itself toward being addictive.
I think it's also good to see that eating well and exercising in a smart way can yield a pretty impressive and very attractive body.
Berkhan is another fine example if you compare the photos during his starvation modeling days to how he looks now with resistance exercise and well-timed re-feeds that could probably give Furious Pete a run for his money.
"[He went on a] spree of shoplifting, stealing trin?kets that had little or no intrinsic value…(p. 885)"
:o
This happened to me at the skinniest peak (more like trough) of my disordered eating! Went totally klepto, so out of character… felt so ashamed about that.
Nice, diggin' deep for that quote.
Until you've starved, you just can't grasp how weird it can make you.
The Ancel Keys experiement as well as the Benedict experiment give context to much of the strange behavior that stems from severe, prolonged hunger.
@Madmuhhh and Organism as a Whole-
I've been semi-anoretic for as long as I remember. I never ate as much as I should. My mother often times had to forcefeed me (up until I was 9 or 10). I think my breast, hip, and height development have been permanently stunted.
no offense, but there is no such thin as semi-anorexic… that drives me nuts. people who say 'if i could just be anorexic' and lose weight…
Matt, that site is fucked up! i know it all so well though…
"It's only fattening when you…
1) Have a major tendency towards weight gain, which, you probably will"
haha well at least you tell it like it is… this would be so much easier in the winter.
got it on the starch. first time i had winter squash and yams it went right through me- i cannot imagine what corn or beans will do lol. i just finished my reply blog and linked here so you may see an influx in the 'ED community' come through bagging your advice so i apologize ahead of time.
AHHH my favorite subject…
I seem to remember back in the days of my eating disorder that I read a book by Patrick Holford about eating disorders and how they had linked very low zinc levels to anorexia and bulimia which affected appetite control
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/1998/09/980908073616.htm
Also My belief is that anorexia or any addiction for that matter is the brains way of trying to rebalance itself.
Recently I have been studying the effects of Trauma up close and personal and how this effects the brain. It's fascinating what I am discovering and how it effects us on a physical level. It really is helping me have compassion for people caught up in addiction who are just striving for homeostasis in the only way they know how.
I'll be writing about this more in my blog
Very good blog post, Matt. Very well done.
Being very easily addicted to substances such as tea, coffee, cigarettes, sugar, and what not, I can understand how difficult getting over anorexia might be. Especially since the other substances you would be better off without and should try to avoid, however, with food, you just have to eat if you want to live. I have read that uric acid has an actual causal effect in addiction to tobacco, alcohol, opium, cocaine, and morphine, (and even tea, coffee, and chocolate) and wonder if it could have something to do with anorexia. I googled it, and found that the starvation and excess exercise do cause large amounts of uric acid to build up all over the body, so at the very least, those uric acid stores can make it very difficult to feel okay while eating foods that bring the pH of the body back to normal. At the very best, it could be the actual cause, first brought on by the initial diet and exercise to loose weight. If so, clearing it out could bring about relief from the addictive drive to return to it.
This could also possibly explain why LC, VLC, and ZC make it so much worse.
Compare the effects of alcohol, cocaine, etc., on p.19 of "Uric Acid an Epitome on the Subject", by Alexander Haig, to the effects of starvation and excess exercise. Starvation can temporarily cause the same effects as those drugs because during starvation the body uses it's own tissue and a lot of uric acid is released into the blood stream, temporarily clearing the blood of uric acid by raising the acidity of the blood. When the pH rises, and uric acid comes back into solution, depression and anxiety return.
Great comment Betsy, and very interesting. All the more reason to eat a starch-heavy diet keeping protein low-moderate for the sake of recovery. I can't wait to read Haig. I have several of his books in my Amazon cue next go-around.
Pipparoni-
Yes, nutrient deficiency is interesting, and I actually did intend to mention it, as whenever Robert McCarrison induced severe nutrient deficiency in animal subjects it always had a pronounced anorectic effect and they stopped eating.
Malpaz-
It can take a while after VLC to re-establish the kind of gut bacteria needed to properly digest carbohydrate foods without them running right through you. I experienced this recently when I ate almost nothing but fruit for a week. The beginning of the week I hardly left the bathroom, but by the end I was passing about half as much, and without hershey squirts. I think you'll experience some level of the same.
As for fat gain, some is to be expected, and some is desired in your case. That doesn't mean you are destined to become highly overweight as you rebuild. In fact, after an intial "detox" type of period, you may find that eating a starch-based diet with some resistance exercise will make you look more like a fitness model than a frumpy 20 something.
This is yet another reason why I am increasingly favoring overfeeding with reduced fat intake, especially for those concerned about gaining fat, and those coming off of low-carb, who always seem so capable of gaining fat on a high-fat and high-carb diet.
Matt, you can punch me in the face for being off-topic, but I got two questions revolving around sugar. It seems like you have changed some of your views about it. So let me try to paraphrase you current views and please correct me if I said anything which you do not agree with.
1) Sugar, just as Ray Peat says, relaxes the adrenals and thus allows them to heal. At least if the sugar comes from fruit and not from refined sugar. (Then what about things like honey, maple syrup, molasses etc. which are neither fruit nor heavily refined?)
2) Sugar is not necessarily anti-metabolic (like PUFAs for example) it just is the form of carbohydrate that is the hardest to metabolize. So for the sake of comparison, a healthy person could get away with eating greater amounts of (unrefined) sugar, which probably would not be possible with PUFAs or white flour products.
That's the way I understood it. If I said anything you do not agree with, please say so.
alright i do think i'll break… here goes nothing. i gotta find some starch sources i am 'okay with'. currently i adore butternut squash, rutabagas, turnips, and yams i cant get ahold of but they have them- just theyre sweet potatoes. corn, eh, i dont really like would it be okay in like a tortilla form? i think they sell those….
also, on the protein. i would lke to 'think' i am kind of strong for my size so when yu sa low-moderate protein im guessing like .6 or .7 per LBM pound?
i know im being obsessive and OCD about the questions, but as is the nature of my head. what would good percentages be to aim for as far as carbs, fat and protein?
Malpaz-
I actually find the ratios mentioned here to be pretty solid…
http://veganmaster.blogspot.com/2008/08/mnp-100-muscle-and-34-selected.html
You can also see that protein requirements are not that high, just 10-15% of calories. Many starchy foods are 10% protein or higher, which means that animal protein intake does not need to be very high – just a few ounces per day.
Corn tortillas are fine. Just note that they have only about 12 grams of carbs per tortilla, so the usual 2-3 tortillas is pretty scant. 8-10 tortillas per meal – now we're talkin.'
Madmuhhh-
I remain "open" to fruit sugars, but I still can't see how they are preferable other than they tend to contain more vitamin C and potassium than most starchy foods. In terms of raising body temperature, there's no doubt that starches (and lactose) are superior because of their impact on leptin (raise leptin, increase leptin sensitivity) vs. fructose which does not.
Perhaps someone with severe adrenal problems might benefit from snacking on fruit throughout the day, but my gut instinct tells me that the blood sugar instability from fructose might do more harm than good to someone trying to recover.
Malpaz,
When I was coming off Zero Carb a year ago, I used white rice as my starch of choice.
I adapted Matt's original HED to a low fat high starch diet. I used white rice as a transition carb because it is very easy to digest and assimilate.
I would consume 3-5 meals a day mainly rice with a little vegetable and lean animal protein.
Doing this allowed my to enhance my carb tolerance quickly with no rebound fat gain eating more calories than I was when zero/vlc.
After eating like this for a month or so, you can expand your carb choices and experiment with how different ones treat you.
I think that Ray Peat's preference for sugar is because of his thoughts that "Starch strongly stimulates insulin secretion, and insulin stimulates the formation of estrogen". And Peat is extremely anti-estrogen. I can see this possibly being the case with insulin resistance.
Also, ray peat seems to be swayed towards sugar because of some experiments that were done with raw starches and their persorption which can damage cells.
As far as I know, this does not happen when starches are properly prepared.
I agree with Riles on the white rice to start off with on the high starch diet. Most people coming off of a low carb/starch diet will have difficulty digesting a lot of plant foods. Potatoes, yams, corn, beans, whole grains can all be difficult to dogest, and you ned to work your way into it. White rice seems to be the easiest on the digestive system an least likely to cause an allergenic reaction.
Read the vegan guys site… how is this good, he says :
"This is what inevitably happens when starch is overfed in such large amounts. Insulin remains high all day, constantly pushing protein (and most of whatever fat is eaten) into storage."
insulin high all day? isn't that asking for diabetes???
and one more question, most research points to fat consumption for fertility and the necessary component of EFA's and O-3 in fertility. you sure this wont make my chances of getting my period back worse?
Riles…thanks for the starch advice… rice would be a huge change from the paleo starches i recently added in. I am definitely a paleo-junkie as far as health is concerned… i am also reaizing just how hard this switch is going to be. yikes, my face has already thoroughly broken out like cystic acne since i upped carbs
Anorexia is a terrible thing. Good luck Malpaz. I have a distant cousin who was beautiful in a very curvaceous, Rubanesque way. After HS, not so much… she wasn't quite as bad as the photo, but almost. She had gorgeous ringlets that all fell out. I saw her at a family function and didn't even know who she was. It's been probably 10 years since then, and while she's "recovered", she hasn't really regained her hair or her vibrancy. She's a normal weight but looks awful. Of course, I don't know how she eats, or anything.
Low protein, low protein, low protein… talking about adrenals and addictions. I'm eating lots of starch. Lots of fruit too, even in Hawaii, tis the season. I cut down on fat to try to slow the weight gain, but after trying to go "low" fat and getting shaky, I changed to just not slathering it on. But I'm finding that I can't seem to go low protein either. I CRAVE meat. Anything less than an 8oz steak is not good enough. Never mind the other protein thru the day. Is it an addiction? I'm worrying about toasting my adrenals even more. How do you know the difference between craving something because your body needs it, and it just plain being an addiction?
I've noticed my morning temp totally depends on my sleep. Less than 8hrs, 97.3, more than 8, 98.1. Every time. At least I know what to really work on!
Last concern… Just rode bikes to day camp with the kids. Downhill there, one mile slightly uphill on the way back. Dizzy, exhausted, heart pounding, almost passed out, wanna puke, muscles shaking. And it's been an hour now, with little recovery. I haven't ridden a bike for a few months, but I also haven't been a complete sloth. What gives?
Furious Pete is indeed one sexy beast, although the ending shot of him sitting there with pulled pork all over his face dampens the effect! Amazing what overeating can do.
Malpaz,
I agree that eating highly nutritious foods is important, but that should be on the back burner until after you have restored your glucose metabolism.
About insulin. Spiking insulin is not bad. It is an important process that shuttles nutrients into cells. Starches will not cause diabetes.
On fats, I just look at all the low fat eating groups like the zulu/pima/kombai etc and see that they breed like rabbits. As long as you are eating some animal food you will be fine.
I'm interested in MadMUHHH's comment as well. I did read Ray Peat's thing on starch and sugar but came away feeling that it didn't feel like the whole story. And ice cream is great but it's still refined sugar. I can't pull myself away from Weston Price's statements about the low nutrient density, even for honey, molasses, maple syrup, etc.
I'm also wondering about effect on adrenals. It seems like MadMUHHH is stating 2nd-hand that fruit relaxes adrenals, but I remember Matt making a comment to the effect that sweet combined with fat stimulates them. I suppose the safer route would be to practice a lot heavier restriction but I don't feel like it. I'm kind of ok with my belly where it's at and I'd like to know if I'm severely impacting my adrenal recovery having pancakes with whip cream and maple syrup three or four times a week.
Hi Matt
Just wondering if you could please confirm that now you recommend to bring our temperature up we overfeed using a high carb lower fat and lower protein approach?
If this is the case would it be possible for you to post some meal ideas using this approach?
Thanks heaps.
Lorelei,
Regarding sleep and morning temps, I just noticed the same thing recently. I went a week with crappy sleep habits, and then all of a sudden my morning temps dropped 0.5 degrees. I've been catching up on my sleep, though, and my temps are just about back to normal (well, my normal – 98.1 – oral temp).
Ned,
Thanks for the information earlier about power napping. I nap a lot but it's rare that I can nap for less than 2 hrs, and then of course that negatively affects my sleep quality that night. I'll try power napping. I did unplanned power napping around 3:00 or 4:00 am when I worked night shift during rotating shift work. I always felt better afterward and able to finish my shift with some reasonable semblance of alertness. (Of course, several years of rotating shift work did a very serious number on my metabolism and my overall health, combined with a lot of other bad lifestyle factors – poor diet, inadequate calories, lots of caffeine and sugar, high-stress job, backbiting co-workers, social isolation -and those are just the ones I can think of off-hand).
I can relate. I was a binger at 8 then moved onto anorexia, cutting, bulimia, alcoholism, meth. It makes me crazy when people talk about 'self medicating' like an addict does this shit because they had a bad day or were molested 30 years ago or whatever. I am medicating, of course, medicating MY BRAIN! Because it is NEVER fucking feels good unless I am juicing it up or tweaking it somehow, but then of course …consequences!
I totally understand #9. Even if I get into a stimulating conversation my brain gets too much of a fix and I have thoughts of using. Also, in the black harrowing days after binge behavior, when you start to feel human again …you can get a buzz of aliveness then too that can become addictive, so be careful 'bout that peoples.
Well, since I've frickin tried all the others, I'm gonna try your bland diet of starch with a little fat/protein. Can one use seasonings/salsa liberally.
Thanks Matt. -S.
What about someone that needs to gain…but does no exercise at all? Lethargy, stiffness of body, dead fatigue, etc. being factors in that.
And dairy? oats with dairy, nuts, and fruit? Some protein powders on occasion?
"More on reactive hypoglycemia in a blog post this Thursday"
I have reactive hypoglycemia but there is very little of it written anywhere. I had to stop eating carbs for breakfast – pancakes, cereal, bagels etc. – shortly after ingesting any of these, my blood would run cold and I'd pass out! Really looking forward to your post on it, Matt.
G'day Ailu,
for what its worth, I have to be careful with carb sources. White rice, millet, potatoes, polenta, buckwheat all cool my body down markedly. Generally takes an hour or so, but the result is pronounced coldness. I ensure that I use 'warmer' carb sources such as quinoa, or oats. Interestingly sometimes, the thermal natures of foods vary quite dramatically from person to person.
Sometimes folk even find that by adding a more warming spice such as ginger, or some heavier meat, to a carb source then this too can change the result.
There may be some crossover with reactive hypoglycemia here, not sure.
best, Wattlebird.
Aloha Matt!
Wonderful and well thought out post. You are right on with the food recommendations yet I am curious who will follow them?
This seems to be the big catch…getting the anorexic to eat (or bulimic to keep in) the foods that will heal.
Food as medicine works well for other addictions and can be used as a healing modality but when the cure (food) is also the curse it is terrorizing to the client and compliance is decreased.
It has been my work to teach people with all forms of ED *HOW* to feed themselves again. Some never knew and all those who suffer with ED have forgotten how to feel hunger and satiety.
No food as healing modality will work without the client learning when they are hungry and how to eat to satiety.
While this is no quick fix it is imperative to healing -not only for ED but anyone on the diet merry go round.
Mahalo for all your research and posting, please keep it up.
I can relate to the stuff I'm hearing here as I was raised vegetarian, which I think has similar psychological/physical effects to eating disorders. Had anxiety, creaky joints, and stunted growth as a kid.
I don't mind being physically stunted, I just hope I'm not so far gone that I can't live a reasonably healthy life.
Thanks Riles and JT-
I had that thought as well, and white rice certainly lends itself to higher calorie consumption. This is especially important for someone that is underweight.
Malpaz-
Riles is correct about insulin and starch. For starters, the blog I linked to is talking about overfeeding specifically. Any type of overfeeding increases insulin levels. When comparing high-starch overfeeding vs. high-fat overfeeding however, high-fat overfeeding does not raise the metabolism as much, increases the rate of calories stored in fat tissue, and decreases the amount stored in muscle tissue.
ALL forms of overfeeding discussed lowered blood sugar in both lean and obese subjects.
The trick is to get high insulin levels to store excess calories into muscle tissue but not fat cells. The higher the starch to fat ratio, the higher the ratio of muscle to fat gained during calorie surplus.
Ironically, this seems to be reversed in calorie deficit. But that is no surprise. This is probably why most fitness competitors bulk up on high-carbs (but gain fat too because fat and protein intake is too high), and cut on low-carb. The most successful seem to cycle carbs to build and get lean in the same week, although this is very tough for someone who is unhealthy with poor adrenals, and could cause health problems.
My own experience lines up with this 100%. On low-carb I lost pure body fat and looked very lean. This got me pumped up to start lifting weights to look even more studly, but I couldn't gain muscle to save my life on a low-carb diet.
Protein intake needs to be kept fairly low as well, because excessive protein increases the use of protein for fuel, or "protein oxidation."
The body burns protein by raising catabolic hormones, which has 2 negatives – the first is that breakdown of muscle tissue is increased. The second is that increased cortisol causes increased muscle insulin resistance, putting more of excess calories into fat and less into muscle.
From a recovering anorexic's point of view, I tend to think that eating adequate protein but not excess would be ideal based on that. The golden rule still remains as 1 gram per kg of lean body mass, which can drop even lower when in calorie surplus.
On Salsa-
Funny you should ask…
http://180kitchen.wordpress.com/2010/07/19/60-second-salsa/
Mishkam-
I'm working on that this week, but the menu will be posted in the new version of 180 Kitchen. I will also have a menu/eating plan based on MNP for msucle gains as well as several fat loss menus. Book should be done by Monday, when I plan to announce its completion.
Hawaii Girl-
Addiction is pushing it, but an 8-ounce steak with every meal is pretty hefty. Remember that switching from burning fat as a fuel source to glucose and vice versa is a difficult transition. If you are curious to try it, take it slow.
Great feedback on sleep and body temp. Sleep is underestimated no doubt.
Ailu-
With reactive hypoglycemia, there is no doubt that high-carb/low-protein will exacerbate symptoms in the short-term. Eating a full-sized carb meal without much protein – particularly rapid absorption stuff like potatoes, bagels, pancakes, etc., is NOT the way to transition as you've discovered. The best is probably nibbling all day long, in calorie surplus, slowly increasing the ratio of carb to protein at each feeding.
Have you tried full-on overfeeding yet and what is your morning temperature?
Thanks for stopping by LunchWithoutED!!
Matt,
I think that sucrose is superior to starch. Ray Peats advices have really helped me to increase my metabolism and to get rid of other problems. While eating alot of starch from potatos and rice I felt full and tired all the time. A lot of sucrose plus at least 80g of high quality protein helped me to overcome those problems. It increased my temperature from 96.3 to 97.5 now. Pulse rate increased from average 60 to 70 (sometimes 80-85 after meals)
Sugar increases metabolism more than starch. Read this…
Metabolism.1996Oct;45(10):1235-42.
Postprandial thermogenesis and substrate utilization after ingestion of different dietary carbohydrates.
Blaak EE, Saris WH.
Department of Human Biology, University of Limburg, Maastricht, The Netherlands.
Whole-body thermogenesis, substrate utilization (open circuit ventilated-hood system), and exogenous carbohydrate oxidation were evaluated in 10 healthy lean male volunteers (aged 27.8 +/- 2.5 years) for 6 hours after oral ingestion of 75g naturally enriched fructose, glucose (both derived from corn starch), cane sugar, and a good digestible corn starch (all mixed with 400 mL water). The integrated areas under the glucose and insulin response curves above baseline were highest with glucose and starch, intermediate with sucrose, and lowest with fructose, whereas there were no significant differences in the integrated
nonesterified fatty acid (NEFA) response between carbohydrates. The total increment in energy expenditure (EE) above baseline was similar with fructose
(130 +/- 24 kJ/6 h) and sucrose (141 +/- 17 kJ/6 h), was higher with sucrose as compared with starch (108 +/- 24 kJ/6 h, P < .05) and glucose (94 +/- 20 kJ/6 h,
P < .05), and tended to be higher with fructose as compared with glucose (P =.059). Both the increment in total carbohydrate oxidation (P < .05) and the increment in exogenous carbohydrate oxidation (P < .01) were significantly higher with fructose and sucrose compared with glucose and starch. The initial
inhibition of lipid oxidation was higher with sucrose and fructose than with glucose and starch, whereas the integrated decrement in lipid oxidation over 6 hours was only higher with fructose compared with glucose and starch (P < .05).
In conclusion, thermogenesis and substrate utilization vary considerably after ingestion of different types of carbohydrate in young lean males, indicating that
the carbohydrate composition of the diet may have important consequences for energy and macronutrient balance.
Interesting post Matt. I happen to have someone fairly close to me who is going through drug treatment right now. You are right. They push junkfood, caffeine and cigarettes. I feel like treatment should just be a place that keeps her away from dope and gives her good food to eat and lets her get rest. In some ways its almost easier with a drug like heroin. Yeah its more physically addictive but heroin doesn't just fall from the sky. You have to seek it out. If you can end the drug seeking thats half the battle. How do you do that with food though? It sounds like the person who emailed you is replacing one kind of eating disorder with another. As you say taking stepping stones away by replacing smaller addictions is one way to treat. I know recovered alcoholics though who died from lung cancer. Yes, they probably lived longer, happier more productive lives as smokers than as drunks, but still…
I also agree that there is an over emphasis on the psychology of addiction and not enough on the physical elements of addiction. I don't see how anyone can really begin to think clearly about themselves and begin to work on psychological problems when their brain is still muddled with one buzz or another. Feed the body then the mind.
Good luck Malpaz and other ED newcomers.
I actually thought about this with my relative who is going through drug treatment, but I wondered if a milk fast wouldn't help her. Like the old school kind where you sleep and don't do anything but drink milk. Seems like it would be more beneficial then mountain dew fueled group therapy sessions that just drag out the worst guilt feelings imaginable. If addiction really is an illness why are we punishing people who have it?
Thanks Jannis-
I appreciate your feedback. As you know, I'm not easily seduced by short-term postprandial physiolgical impacts, and have criticized Peat at length for doing that with postprandial insulin and rapid absorption of corn starch among other examples.
Richard J. Johnson also acknowledges that fructose increases postprandial ATP generation the most, which he feels has the long-term consequence of exhausting cellular ATP generation and lowering the metabolism despite postprandial increase.
I use a similar comparison when it comes to low-carb diets, which make me super hyper with constant energy and insomnia while inducing fat loss. This could be construed as evidence for a low-carb diet, but I know that doing it for a prolonged period of time did damage due to the body's counter-reaction to the diet, which is not taken into consideration in a brief, postprandial survey.
History seems like a more important guide. Sucrose and fructose consumption are both at an all-time high right now. If there are metabolic benefits to it, they must be quite trivial.
I too have brought my body temperature up by nearly 2.0 degrees F since this time last year, and the biggest setback I had during that time was when I consumed lots of fruit and sugar as part of a mixed diet that triggered hyperphagia and a drop in body temperature of .5 degrees in a matter of just 2 weeks (along with a 5 pound fat gain).
The key for me is seeing repeatedly that I absolutely will not store more fat than I burn unless there is sugar in my diet (combined with fat, protein, and starch). But then again, remove any one of those elements (except starch) and I lose weight.
I have also repeatedly seen people on SAD lose 10 pounds or more in one month by restricting fructose-containing sugars… this without any conscious effort at all to lose weight, restrict calories, or exercise more.
Hi Jenny,
I have similar thoughts on addiction. In fact I think there are two aspects. One is the physiological aspect which gets delineated at length here. I experienced this myself when I switched from low-carb to HED and experienced a big drop in caffeine and alcohol cravings.
The other is the guilt component. There's a book called the Guru Papers that covers it pretty well. Basically we're taught to reject our carnal selves in the name of purity and this is enforced through guilt. This rejection of part of the self has all kinds of psychological consequences, one of them being addictive behavior.
It seems to me, to be free of addiction, both aspects would need to be addressed.
Definitely Aaron, and that was one of the main foundations of starting this blog – originally named "sacred self." One of my biggest health breakthroughs was making an inviolable pact with myself that I would self-inflict guilt no matter what the situation or circumstances – certainly as it pertained to eating.
My diet and life in general has been much healthier since then – when "x" is no longer "naughty" the psychological pattern is broken.
A key component for sure.
Thanks Matt,
It was really interesting to hear you explain the physiology of anorexia. Super loved the article! Dopamine is fascinating.
I was anorexic for 6 months when I was 21. As soon as I realized it I took myself to a psychologist to get help as I knew it's a deadly disease. I started eating immediately and have never stopped since. (But it's scary to hear that low carb has similar effects…) I sill wonder if that period of anorexia didn't lay the grounds for my future health crisis. I don't think I ever healed the metabolism fully from it, especially since I continued eating sugar and mostly refined foods.
It's such a painful disease. It's difficult to see the picture in the blog post. I do believe, it's a mental illness, however I now see that it's clearly also a form of addiction. Both addiction and a lot of mental illness may begin and be fundamentally caused by faulty nutrition. In my case it was cause by emotional trauma, not from body image issues. However, if I had been raised on good nutrition, chances are I could have responded better to trauma in the first place. I agree that anorexia is an addiction situation. It may start out as an addiction to "perfection", if that makes any sense, and then just become about dopamine.
I agree that it begins with a desire to loose weight, but that is often simply the desire to have and gain control over one thing when most other things seem out of control. This desire to loose weight is also closely connected to feelings of self-loating etc. So, it's probably not so much "I want to become a model", as it is "I am so repulsive I have to do something asap." (as is common in cases of for example sexual abuse or other forms of abuse responses). Basically, I think there are probably a few different causes of anorexia, but yes, it makes sense that it immediately becomes an addiction. The feeling of "relief" from suffering that is caused by the rise in dopamine is probably why it "helps" with dealing with feelings of trauma.
I guess for me, in the end, my fear of death did override my need to cope with trauma. It took me years though to understand what a "regular size" portion was, since my normal hunger feedback loop had been totally ruined.
"I started eating immediately and have never stopped since."
So, are you cooking while eating or how do you pull that off? And what about sleeping?
Sorry, I couldn't resist. My next comment will be more valuable.
Matt, what is 'eating frequently' for someone with no natural hunger instinct left. Is it x calories every 2 hours? 4 hours?
Also, for when one is gutting out the upregulation, do you recommend using any of the various amino acids that books like "mood cure" say will support different brain chemicals? Thanks, S.
Nice Madmuhhh…
S. –
Yes I believe that the supplements laid out in Mood Cure and Diet Cure by Julia Ross could be helpful. it is essentially the same combination as that recommended by Joan Mathews Larsen to overcome drug and alcohol addiction.
As for eating frequently, I just generally mean that to refer to more often than 3 times per day – probably closer to once every 2-3 hours than every 4-5 hours.
Matt, and everyone else on the potato wagon, how are your teeth? Mine look as though they are loosing minerals.
@Anonymous, something that is very good for brain chemistry is Rescue Remedy, a Bach Flower Remedy.
I only have tooth problems when I eat too much fruit or eat a low-carb diet (although Zero carb didn't seem to have a negative impact in the short-term, nor does fruit fasting, but fruit fasting does cause some tooth sensitivity).
{The key for me is seeing repeatedly that I absolutely will not store more fat than I burn unless there is sugar in my diet (combined with fat, protein, and starch). But then again, remove any one of those elements (except starch) and I lose weight.}
confused ont hat quote but isnt that true for like everybody???
Matt,
I don't think that the energy you get in the short term from a low carb diet has anything to do with a faster metabolism but with high adrenalin etc.
You say the beneficial effect from sucrose must be trivial because consumption is at an all-time high and people still become fat.
I think you underestimate the extremely destructive effect PUFA's have on the metabolism. And as you know PUFA consumption is at an all-time high too. In almost every product that contains sugar there are also PUFA in it.
I don't know Richard J. Johnson, to be honest. But the idea that a substance that produces an increase of postprandial ATP production will lead to a decrease in cellular ATP production in the long term sounds stupid to me.
Anyway, I will keep you up to date how it's going.
PS: How is your pulse rate at the moment? Was the increase you saw during your milk time permanently?
I think your resting pulse rate is a better indicator for your metabolism than temperature (especially when you live in a relatively warm area) and body weight. Many hypothyroid persons are very lean and can't gain weight.
"The trick is to get high insulin levels to store excess calories into muscle tissue but not fat cells. The higher the starch to fat ratio, the higher the ratio of muscle to fat gained during calorie surplus.
Ironically, this seems to be reversed in calorie deficit. But that is no surprise. This is probably why most fitness competitors bulk up on high-carbs (but gain fat too because fat and protein intake is too high), and cut on low-carb. The most successful seem to cycle carbs to build and get lean in the same week, although this is very tough for someone who is unhealthy with poor adrenals, and could cause health problems."
do you have reerences or insight on why it is reversed? and how does one know when they are in the right ratio?
I will save the quite dramatic night i had between getting sick, throwing up water most the night, and feeling like a 93485012394534lb whale. my stomach has felt like it's gonna pop all flippin day- like it is protruding past my boobs and i feel constipated as all hell. face looks chubby and my belly has agrabable amount of fat on it. i feel like hell…maybe this overfeeding starch thing should be done in a hospital or something. i am ungodly pissed off, frustrated and crying all day and it was only ONE DAY
Sorry Malpaz-
Just trying to be fair. Because I can eat sugar all day long by itself and not gain weight. No one can, because insufficient protein intake triggers catabolic hormones, and you lose weight from lean tissue losses a lot faster than you lose fat weight.
Jannis-
The increase in energy on low-carb was due to adrenal hormones, and if you don't believe that something that makes adrenal hormones rise and then leads to low adrenal hormone output in the long-term, pay closer attention to the comments on this blog. Johnson is suggesting the same, and I tend to agree that ALL of the body's systems tend to work that way, not just the adrenal glands.
As for pulse rate, I very, very, very strongly disagree that it is a better indicator of metabolic health than body temperature. Low pulse rate has always had a strong association with good health and great fitness.
When I was a young kid and overweight for example, my pulse rate was much higher than it was once I hit puberty and lost tons of body fat.
Also, you'll see high resting pulse rates amongst obese and type 2 diabetics, but low body temperatures. Even Bernarr MacFadden wrote about how the typical adult-onset diabetic had a characteristic high pulse rate and low body temperature (Handbook of Health).
Low pulse rates are what you see amongst olympic athletes. That is not proof of greater health, but does say something.
I do believe that PUFA have a major net-negative effect as well, and that carbohydrates of any kind, when poorly metabolized, may not have anything to do with the carbohydrates themselves.
But the modern diet is so screwed up it's hard to pick the winner. A typical American gets 50% of calories from the combination of vegetable oil, sucrose, HFCS, and white flour – with vitually no nutritional value.
I tend to think that low nutrient intakes, and a low ratio of nutrients to calories is more of a causative factor than fish oil and walnuts.
The MNP site has the best compilation of references about overfeeding and what macronutrient ratios yield the greatest muscle gain with the least fat deposition.
As far as reversal while underfeeding, cutting carbs increases fatty acid oxidation, meaning that more fat and less glucose is used for fuel. This spares lean mass when the catecholamines rise. If catecholamines rise (in calorie deficit) and your body is oxidizing mostly glucose for fuel, get ready to lose some lean mass.
Anthony Colpo has done some pretty good work on this in his weight loss book. Head to head calorie comparisons on low-carb vs. high-carb at low calorie levels show clearly that low-carb yields more fat lost and less lean tissue lost vs. low-fat/low-calorie.
This is why I say a low-calorie/high-carb diet is the worst possible diet imaginable for fat loss because it causes the least fat loss and greatest lean tissue loss of any form of calorie restriction.
Malpaz,
Of course someone will have problems when they go and binge on a food group that they have been restricting. It will take time for your body to adjust and learn to process these food appropriately. It is NOT a good idea for you to go from one extreme diet to another. All of these diets will just give you an excuse to restrict some food group. Paleo, low carb, low fat are all bad for you. What you need is to eat balanced, and probably a coach/consultant to help you through it.
Matt,
When I was low/zero carb I always had a high temperature and a low pulse rate, and I was killing myself. I almost completely destroyed my metabolism, lost tons of muscle, felt like crap, and looked like a concentration camp victim.
When I upped my carbs my body temperature dropped and pulse rate went up, but I was much healthier and felt much better.
People on here need to get over their obsession with all of these numbers. GO by how you FEEL and look, and you will be a lot better off than someone who obsesses over temp, pulse rate, weight, bodyfat calipers, etc…
Matt,
I think that most of those athlets you are talking about are less healty than the average american.
The slow pulse of endurance athlets is often the result of a serious degree of thyroid suppression. Impaired lung diffusion, reduced testosterone and fertility, increased estrogen and altered immunity often go with the very slow athletic pulse.
Harefuah. 2006 Sep;145(9):677-81, 702, 701.
[Exercise and the male reproductive system]
I think there are only a few things that are worse for your body than excess endurance sports.
"The increase in energy on low-carb was due to adrenal hormones, and if you don't believe that something that makes adrenal hormones rise and then leads to low adrenal hormone output in the long-term, pay closer attention to the comments on this blog."
I totally understand that. But what does that have to to with the fact that I think that his theory on Sugar/ATP is wrong? Sugar doesn't make adrenal hormones raise. It makes the adrenals relaxe and supports the thyroid.
Sucrose stimulates the production of T3. That's a well known fact. So sugar will rise your metabolism in the long term whereas low carb is just a straw fire.
JT,
exactely. You should go by how you feel. And like you I feel best when my pulse rate is higher-about 85. Then I feel like I can do everything, are able to work like crazy and don't get tired.
Healthy and intelligent people have been found to have an average pulse rate of 85 whereas less healthy people average around 70.
Wow, I like this debate on sugar. It is fascinating.
Regarding addiciton: I know for sure that RRARF has helped me with my sugar addiction. It totally eliminated my cravings, and I have had cravings every hour all my life. The last ten years I was able to use will power to not fall into eating sugar, but I still had the hourly cravings. Interestingly I used to work with this in therapy, writing down when the craving happened, how strong it was, and how long it lasted. Not to mention all the deep jungian work on what sugar signifies to me, what emotional function it may fill etc, and then within just a few days of RRARF, all cravings: gone…..my psychologist (and I) got very surprised to say the least……For this reason, I could see RRARF working very well in anorexia. With quick results/relief, the positive loop may be jump started so the eating can continue long term. I also think it would be much easier to get an anorexic to eat a healthy food, vs eating ice cream and pizzas.
Hope future rehab of all kinds will incorporate RRARF….
madMUHHH:
lol, "I started eating immediately and have never stopped since…." that's very funny. I shall be more careful in how I word this from now on….lol….I actually did incorporate some sleep into my constant eating diet….jk….
Betsy:
My teeth got better once I began eating egg shell calcium (simply crush up empty egg shells after heating them up in the oven to dry them. Crush with a roller), then soak for 7 hours in lemon juice if you like, but that's not necessary. It's done wonders for my teeth. When I went low carb, I got like 30-40 little black spots in the teeth, (probably small cavities) and they are all gone now, after just 3 months of egg shell calcium. Note, I always took supplementary calcium, but clearly that did nothing for me….
@Lisa E
How hot do you heat the egg shell and how long, I would like to try that? You eat one egg shell per day?
Aloha!
Best to research rehabs prior to entering…it could be the difference between healing and picking up new addictions. My ex about 17 years ago went into a rehab that had NO sugar, No caffeine, smoking was made difficult and limited. They taught meditation and used nutraceuticals vs pharmaceuticals.
Excellent recovery rate (yes my ex is still sober and living a very healthy life).
undertow
I usually put the shells in the oven together with bread if I'm making it. 350 F for about 45 minutes but it can be lots shorter and lower temp. It just needs to be dry enough to break easily. I take about 1/2 teaspoon twice a day with meals.
lunchwithouted
Good to hear that there are good rehab places.
Hi Matt
Just wondered if you listened to Jimmy Moore's latest podcast? He interviews a guy called Dr. Kharrazian who is a thyroid expert.
These are some of the things they talk about –
The inefficiency and archaic nature of measuring your temperature for determining thyroid issues in modern society.
Why blood sugar problems are a precursor to thyroid issues.
The role gluten plays in thyroid complications.
The individualization of carbohydrate tolerance.
His unique fasting program using a sugar water solution for improving insulin resistance.
If you get a chance to listen to it, would love to hear your comments.
"I agree that it begins with a desire to loose weight, but that is often simply the desire to have and gain control over one thing when most other things seem out of control. This desire to loose weight is also closely connected to feelings of self-loating etc. So, it's probably not so much "I want to become a model", as it is "I am so repulsive I have to do something asap."
Absolutely. You nailed it.
I had good luck with using the supplements that were in The Diet Cure.
Ok Matt, I know you've kind of changed your dietary recommendations, from what I'm gathering, the change is to slow down some of the weight gain, right? If this is accurate, what do you recommend at this time for fat loss from someone who has gained with your previous recommendations? Thanks, S
@undertow:
Here is some more information on how to use egg shells as a calcium supplement.
http://www.healingnaturallybybee.com/articles/supp2.php
I might try this out aswell.
Aaron said: "The other is the guilt component. There's a book called the Guru Papers that covers it pretty well. Basically we're taught to reject our carnal selves in the name of purity and this is enforced through guilt. This rejection of part of the self has all kinds of psychological consequences, one of them being addictive behavior."
The problem is that most classic 12 step treatment programs have a whole period of confession where you have to get together with your family and tell them the worst stories of your addiction. This seems unnecessarily painful to me and it is incredibly traumatic for the families as well. Supposedly this is healing, but I don't know. I would think the guilt and shame dragged out in this circumstance would be overwhelming especially to someone who is physically in a very weak state.
LunchwithoutTed do you remember the name of the treatment program your ex did? It sounds interesting.
Haha, sugar debate! Matt, have you asked the questions to Peat himself?
BTW, Matt, you say you're very sensitive to sugar in fruit, but couldn't it be salicylate sensvity? I know, I know, of Emma from from plantspoisonsandandrottenstuff. It is an actual recognized medical condition, anyway.
Also, I know you want to power through all health problems with diet alone, but I've found repeteadly, through my readings that thyroid can be a surprising therapeutic tool. This is a study in which it helps "euthyroid" autisitic children: http://archpsyc.ama-assn.org/cgi/content/abstract/29/5/602 There's also this: http://www.orthomolecular.org/library/jom/2001/articles/2001-v16n04-p205.shtml There is of course, much more, but my point is that if you want to go deep into the shit and treat the really terrible diseases, you gotta keep an open mind. Often diet is enough with not too damaged people, but things get harder down the way, as Pottenger himself taught us.
I have also experienced 10 pounds of weight loss very quickly simply by eliminating High Fructose Corn Syrup. I have been trying to eat more fruit lately and have really been feeling the negatives. Digestion is poor and allergy/sinus symptoms have returned. I thought maybe a year of HED would allow me to add some fruit back in. Maybe I just need to have fruit only meals, like Matt does?
Oh and Egg shell people, that sure sounds yummy. Why not just drink an ass load of milk? It does the same thing.
Jannis,
could You please give me some more tips and details on Your Peat/Sugar diet (how much simple sugar a day, how much starch, which type of sugar…).
How much grams of fat and protein a day?
How many meals a day?
I am a big consumer of cocout/palm sugar (seems to be very low GI). Your opinion on it?
Thanks
Andrea
Mishkam-
I have read Kharrazian's book, but he has come to some incredibly absurd conclusions about several things. I do agree that gluten is typically very problematic for those with autoimmune thyroiditis, and is an important dietary provision that all endocrinologists could be more wary of.
I was particularly bothered by his insistence that people have a certain carbohydrate tolerance level, and that most fare better on a low-carb diet. Maybe in the short-term they feel better, just as I did, but long-term it is not sustainable and can be quite harmful.
As for healing insulin resistance on the master cleanse, I agree wholeheartedly. Anything that restricts fat and protein will improve insulin sensitivity. However, consuming no fat or protein (or nutrients) and losing a buttload of lean muscle mass is unecessary. The Master cleanse also majorly weakens digestion. A whole food approach is much more effective, and is actually sustainable – not just something you do for a week.
The temperature test is a good indication of your overall metabolic health. It is not something that should be used for diagnosing thyroid disorders, but a slow metabolism, which, in my experience, only has something to do with thyroid gland functionality in rare cases. Kharrazian's specialty is thyroid gland dysfunction. Most people tend to have relatively normal thyroid panels and low body temperature, signifying leptin resistance if overweight or simply excessive dieting/exercise in those that are not.
Jannis-
I didn't say endurance athletes. Most Olympians are not endurance athletes, and high-intensity exercise done by sprinters or gymnasts is just as capable of lowering pulse rate. Most believe that this is due to the heart's increased ability to pump blood and oxygen per beat – a sign of health, not illness.
Endurance exercise or severe calorie deficit, however, is another story. Increased pump capacity and heart strength are NOT the sole reason for reduced heart rate.
Perhaps with sugar the danger is that it raises metabolism the most and has the least nutrients. In other words, it causes your body to use up more energy and nutrients while supplying the least – therefore causing the biggest nutrient deficit of any ingested substance. This could very well lead to major health problems down the line, as many refined sugar abusers have discovered (leanness and hyperactivity for 2 decades followed by a sudden hypometabolic crash).
JT-
My body temperature dropped when I started eating more carbohydrates as well, but so did my pulse rate. My pulse rate was by far the highest on zero carb, and is much lower now when I feel my best (~50 bpm). My pulse also increased on the milk diet, which was the worst I've felt since zero carb.
It is true that how a person feels matters more than any diagnostic test. However, I've seen diabetics double their fasting blood glucose levels and remark how great they feel, despite very dangerous levels. I've also let how I feel guide my eating and ran into trouble (because the adrenaline surge is what made me feel so damn invincible).
But in general, I agree.
Lisa E. –
The eggshell thing sounds really interesting. If you do a blog post on it with pics and what not let us know.
El66k-
Thanks. I am not closed minded to various supplementation.
Jenny-
Yeah, I wanna believe in fruit, but sometimes it is hard to. I don't see why fruit has to be so damn difficult. Makes my teeth hurt and skin breakout like a champ. Aurora tried some fruit smoothies and juices recently too. Bad news. Major acne and a huge rash broke out on her neck. Like I've said before, fruit is her nemesis. Perhaps it is the salicylates, at least in part, as Twizzlers don't do this to her. Ice cream does make her pretty pimply though.
I was just about to mention this. I started breaking out in some sort of rash on my chest and forehead about a week ago – right about the time I started trying to up my fruit intake. I had been having some small amounts of fruit about every other day, but a week ago I started have a very fruity smoothie every day. Coincidence? Maybe. My only other theory is heat rash – but that usually shows up in more confined spaces like my inner thighs or underarms. I'll go back to little fruit periodically and see what happens.
Matt,
You are of course right about that.
I thought you also believe that a high metabolism is the key factor in order to sustain good health. Therefore I don't understand what your problem with sucrose is. If it comes mainly from fruit I think there is no problem with using it as a main part of your diet.
And yes, when your metabolism is really high, running at a 100% like it should you need more nutrients and high quality protein.
But on a Ray Peat diet you get all of those from fruits, milk products, liver, gelatine, beef, coconut, shell fish and so on.
You are right – when refinied sugar makes up a large part of your diet than you can easily create a nutrient deficiency because it raises metabolism without providing nutrients.
But I think even refined sugar can have it's use sometimes and is less problematic than refinded starch, especially wheat. Did you read the story about the doctor who cured his patient's diabetis by feeding her 10 ounces of sugar a day?
Mishkam,
I don't think that Dr. Kharrazian is a good doctor either.
It seems that he doesn't even understand the basic thyroid problems and those that are associated with the supplements that are used today.
He says that synthetic, isolated thyroxine is better than natural thyroid that contains both T4 and T3! Furthermore he believes that a low carb diet is the best way to overcome hypothyroidism – that's probably why Jimmy invited him to his show..
Andrea,
In my opinion you should emphasize fresh tropical fruits such as oranges, peaches, bananas, mangos etc. You should make sure to get at least 70g of protein per day. Your liver needs protein to convert T4 to the active T3 and your thyroid also needs protein to produce adequate amounts of T4. It's best not to eat too much lean muscle meat and to eat more milk products, shellfish, eggs and gelatine instead.
Especially when your metabolism is low and you have thyroid problems you should eat smaller meals more often.
And of course you should avoid PUFA's as much as possible and replace them with animal fats and cocout oil.
Lisa, thanks for the eggshell for calcium recommendation, but I can't eat eggs, so I have no eggshells. It seems strange that it helps so well when the main type of calcium in eggshells is calcium carbonate. I drink raw milk, though, and so I'm definitely getting enough calcium.
With respect to salicylates from fruit causing difficulties, something to think about is that salicylate is a very good med for getting uric acid out of the body. (Didn't you know I would have to mention uric acid????) But really, Haig found it to be very valuable, but only when you could be in cold surroundings or apply and ice pack to the affected area. Last summer as I was beginning the uric acid free diet I could eat no more than a few cherries a day without feeling bad, but this summer I can eat tomatoes, cherries, bananas, and blueberries frequently thoughout the day with only slight consequences.
I found it very interesting that Emma and her mother both came down with salicylate sensitivity after some sort of flu. To me that's a big clue of something, not sure what.
Danyelle-
I think a lot of this has to do with fruit exacerbating and re-awakening candida and fungal rashes and what not. That's always been my take on it. However, it is of interest that those eating a primarily fruit-based diet report consistent results in overcoming candida overgrowth, and my experience with it is congruent. In other words, fruit is only a problem for many people when it is part of a mixed diet. Puzzling, but evidently true.
Jannis-
The average American gets about 25% of calories from refined sugar, and much less from refined starch. For Asians, it is the opposite way around, and you don't see type 2 diabetes and other widespread metabolic disease there at nearly the same rate.
Curing a diabetic with sugar is just one case. Other diabetes reversal diets are centered around starch, not sugar, and reliably overcome the disease – not in one case, but reliably in rates of 50%, 60%, and higher depending on who's reporting the success (Furhman, Barnard, Rice Diet, Whitaker, McDougall, Graham, etc.).
But fruit seems equally effective at reversing insulin resistance when eaten in isolation, whereas Dr. William Davis reports one patient becoming diabetic from eating fruit on a high-fat diet, and I wouldn't doubt it.
But I imagine many type 2 diabetics could restore insulin sensitivity from drinking sugar water all day (master cleanse, juice fasting, etc.).
Anyway, this is all very compelling because there are many arguments suggesting that the human being, without question, was designed for a very high carbohydrate diet. Thorough reviews by Burkitt, Trowell, Cleave, and many others report consistently that the typical rural diet all over the globe is 70-90% carbohydrate by percentage of calories – the same for all other primate species.
Matt,
Can you provide any evidence for the claim that americans get more calories from refined sugar than from refined starch?
I don't doubt that high carb diets are bad, neither does Peat.
But I think 70 or ninty percent of calorie intak is too much. Mothers milk is probably more like 50%-55%
Asian also don't get nearly as much PUFA's as Americans do.
Who know's if it not that?
The average American diet is 44% carbohydrate – one of the lowest carbohydrate intakes in the world by percentage of calories.
Yet the average intake of ADDED sweeteners, not including juice and fruit is roughly 170 pounds per year per person, which is 80 kg or roughly 200-250 grams of sugar per day. This equates to roughly 25% of total calorie intake. Starch comprises only about 15% of total American ingested calories, about 1/4 of the amount consumed a century ago by percentage of calories in the U.S. and in Asia.
The main source of starch in most American diets is breakfast cereal – whose first ingredient is often sugar. If it's not, this is easily made up for later with the several cans of soda consumed daily. The other prominent source of starch is french fries. Any bread consumed is covered with peanut butter and jelly.
madMUHHH and undertow
Just be aware, if you don't soak the egg shells in lemon juice, chew it for like 10 minutes so it pre-digests well in the mouth.
Matt
I'll totally blog with pictures on the egg shell calcium. Will let you all know.
Jennythenipper
Actually egg shell tastes surprisingly well. :) The reason I have to eat that is cause I can't digest any form of milk/dairy products yet. Perhaps in the future I will be able to, but I'm pretty severely allergic/sensitive to it, sadly, cause I LOVE raw milk…but it's not an option….
Fruit
I also have lots of problems with fruit but can't see why a whole food that has been consumed forever by primitive people with perfect health, would be a problem. But for me lots of healthy whole foods is out of the question, even raw milk and whole grains are impossible to digest at the moment. But still it's a mystery. The same mystery that has the Eskimos thrive on low carb, and me ruining myself on it….There is still a lot we don't know. Amazing that fruits can help in overcoming candida if eaten on it's own, but not with other foods. And yes, I wonder if candida could be one of many underlying issues for us modern people in preventing us from digesting properly.
I'm still fascinated by one of Matt's older blogposts when the deer in the Grand Canyon are mentioned. They get sick from eating junk food that the tourists give them, but then after that they can't digest their regular food anymore. I wonder if this is what's happened to all of us after years of consuming too much refined foods and sugar? Question is how to heal it, and if it's even possible to? I sure hope it is.
Matt,
Where is this data from?
I can't image that a normal person eats 250g of refined sugar a day.
That would be 1000 calories. And if that was 25 percent of daily calorie intake the average american would consume 4000 calories a day. I seriously doubt that.
But since Americans have probably the highest PUFA consumption and exposure to radiation in the whole world this would make sense.
Of course you would get fat if you consumed so many calories including an excess of PUFA's. Like french fries, cookies, chips. peanut butter, bread etc.
Those all contain a lot of PUFA's
And I think that it is the problem. Not the sugar.
I used the term "semi-anorexic" because I wanted to exaggerate how I starved myself in the past. I wanted to exaggerate this because I'm attention-seeking.
When I was 16, I restricted calories partly because I thought that calorie restriction extends lifespan. And partly because I looked slightly overweight.
So I made myself weigh 105-110 pounds when I was 16. I only exceeded 120 pounds after about 18 years old. So that severly stunted my growth. I'm currently 167 cm or 5 foot 6 inches. But I don't worry about this because I grew during the last year.
I'm currently 20, and I hope to grow more.
Matt I'm wondering if you can tell me something, do you think fast food is OK to heal?
I'm saying that because I'm on college, and it sucks having to cook 3 meals per day, since I live in a dorm. It makes my life suck, since it means I am either in school or preparing food/buying food.
So my question is this: I know there are fast food restaurants, such as burger king, that flame grill their meat patties. This means that the meat patty is NOT fried in PUFA oil but goes through a flame grill. Now, would it be healthy to have 1 meal per day of two double whoppers WITHOUT the ketchup and mayo (or any sauce on the bun)? I know the bun contains a bit of soy and probably a bit of PUFA also, but is it negligible? I'm really curious, because you seem to be on of those people who have healed themselves with fast food at some point (i remember you talked about your brother who dips oreos into poweraid, and u healed following a diet of burgers? correct me if im wrong tho)
Seriously tho Matt, what's the alternative? I hate my life having to suffer to dietary perfection, and I really want to know if you personally think the human body can handle a few burgers (fast food, nonetheless) per day – or is it too much? It just sucks having to prepare food every single day and not being able to eat at the school because all they serve is gross lasagna (probably with tons of PUFA) and salad (again with some PUFA dressing.
Can I resort to burger king once per day? What's your opinion? What do you other guys on here think?
Matt why did you feel worse on your milk diet than on zero carb? Can you please explain?
Your conclusion post on your blog was that it has some potential for healing, though. Does it have more or less potential for healing than zero carb? And WHY did you feel so crappy? IF you felt so crappy, then it truly is a dangerous diet to try, right?
Do you think all dairy is the problem (cheese, cream, butter, milk) or do you think MILK is the problem? Is it because of the sugar in milk or the opioid or the casein (mucous forming), ….?? Please explain in detail!!
And HOW did you feel so crappy on the diet? Just because you snored and woke your girlfriend up????
Was your raise in temperature due to allergic reaction, or, due to faster metabolism? What do you think Please tell us!
Hey JT,
I have a few questions for ya that I hope you dont mind answering.
It's been a while back but if i remember right did you say that you get most of your carbohydrates/starch from white rice? Cause I've began eating some jasmine rice with my daily potatoes and I'm really wanting to up my quantity of rice and reduce the potatoes because of a few reasons:
Rice tastes a little better,
It's a lot easier to cook and clean up,
It is a little easier on the digestion
However, I'm a bit afraid of making this switch cause potatoes are just so much more nutritious than rice and I don't want to end up deficient in anything. Which brings me to my question, do you take a multivitamin? If not, what's your opinion on the RDA of vitamins and minerals?
Also, you said to mal to avoid all kinds of diets including low fat, I thought you ate low fat? If not, how much fat do you eat a day? I've been eating really low fat lately and I had some trouble sleeping a few nights, waking up sweaty and hungry (possible hypoglycemia) so for the past couple of days I've been adding a teaspoon of coconut oil to all my meals and so far I havent had any sleep problems, although I'm still eating low fat.
Finally, how much animal meat do you eat on average everyday?
Thanks for your time
I would have to recommend that she reads Julia Ross's book the Diet Cure. Or check out her clinic that has such a high rate of treating these illnesses. I find it amazing that she can have such a high success rate with diet changes and the amino acid supplements and not be all over the news with the great outcomes.
@Anonymous about milk diet,
I hope you don't mind me giving my two cents. I've done the plain milk diet 2 times, 10 days each time, and the last time I switched midstream to making the milk into kefir and adding vanilla, sugar, and fruit.
Two things that I've read about the milk diet that Matt will be reading when he reads Haig's books, is that drinking 7 or 8 quarts of liquid a day can be hard on your heart because of the sheer amount of liquid that it adds to your system. The doctors that were prescribing it back then didn't realize this, but Alexander Haig said that it wasn't wise to just put everyone on the diet without taking into consideration the condition of their heart. So maybe it's actually not good for anyone, even if you don't have heart issues.
Also, Haig recommended a uric acid free diet, and milk was a very important part of that diet because dairy is low in purines. However, he recommended not taking in more protein than was necessary for your particular body, because uric acid would build up even though the source of protein is low purine.
So, you take those two things into consideration, along with the fact that the milk diet probably makes your blood more alkaline, which causes uric acid to be held in the blood and not deposited in the tissue, and you can have some serious problems. So, in that way it can be dangerous. The book written about the milk diet that I read said that a lot of people doing it would get to a point where they were so sick and felt as though they couldn't take any more milk and then quit. The author said that if they would have pushed though, they would have been fine, but he doesn't really know that. The two times I did the pure milk fast I quit at ten days because of an awful migraine. When I was making the milk into kefir and adding sugar and fruit I was able to do it for a month, but then started to get and earache and a pain in my leg that my husband said sounded just like his deep vein thrombosis! I quit that very night and drank a couple of cups of green tea to thin out my blood, and then prayed that I would make it through the night!
I didn't touch milk for awhile after that, and tried small amounts of egg and beef for protein, but my joint pain and headaches came back. So now I drink milk along with potatoes, rice and fruit, and I'm fine with it.
Matt, I am still wondering about that milk diet stuff. I think in one response to Michael you wrote that you were experiencing similar symptoms you experienced when you were sick in your youth, or something like that. So I think it really is a good question to ask how much of your negative experiences where simply negative experiences and how much of them were healing reactions. I guess you probably will know best, you are the one who did it after all, but I can't help to think that you sometimes sound a bit too negative about the milk diet.
Oh, and I've finally started digging through the MNP-site myself. Really interesting stuff indeed, seems to be very well researched aswell. I especially like this quote:
"There really isn't such a thing as a genetic limit [for muscle growth], except that one may get so huge that they impair their health and die. "
Betsy wrote:
"(Didn't you know I would have to mention uric acid????) "
I think you should change your handle to something with "uric" in it. I always read your posts because the whole Uric acid thing is quite interesting to me. Gout and all that.
Lisa, I hope you can add dairy back soon. The egg shells sound dire. Acually I've never tried it, so what do I know?
why arent body builders overweight and lacking lean body mass if they are overfeeding on protein every single day?? why is it the keto diet with refeeding low in fat but still high in protein work?
the more overfeeding study i look over, the reason the higher fat diets are so 'bad' and cause insulin resistance isnt because they are coupled with carbs…i think the excess of O6 is causing them to become insulin resistant and why the low fat higher carb diets 'look' better. after the first 3 days of refeeding and water retention, whats the bigger picture?
And one more thing…there's a lot of info for high protein being good…what do you make of it?
"Increased Thermic Effect of Feeding ? While all macronutrients require metabolic processing for digestion, absorption, and storage or oxidation, the thermic effect of protein is significantly higher than that of carbohydrates and fat. In fact, protein requires 25-30% of the energy it provides just for digestion, absorption, and assimilation while carbs only require 6-8% and fat requires 2-3%. That means that eating protein is actually thermogenic and can lead to a higher metabolic rate. This means greater fat loss when dieting and less fat gain during hypercaloric diets.
Increased Glucagon ? Protein consumption increases plasma concentrations of the hormone glucagon. Glucagon is responsible for antagonizing the effects of insulin in adipose tissue, leading to greater fat mobilization. In addition, glucagon also decreases the amounts and activities of the enzymes responsible for making and storing fat in adipose and liver cells. Again, this leads to greater fat loss during dieting and less fat gain during overfeeding.
Increased IGF-1 ? Protein and amino-acid supplementation has been shown to increase the IGF-1 response to both exercise and feeding. Since IGF-1 is an anabolic hormone that's related to muscle growth, another advantage associated with consuming more protein is more muscle growth when overfeeding and/or muscle sparing when dieting."
As always, a good convesation going on here. JT and Riles, you always get mr thinking about my starch intake. I have been eating hypocaloric (11-13 x bdwt, which is 205) for the past 2 weeks with a couple of high carb meals (100-150g) in the form of sweet potatoes. I'm leaning out some but my strength is down (deadlifting 225 the other day as part of a Crossfit WOD felt heavier than it should have). I'm thinking of substituting more of my fruit and protein for starch (rice and yams) but worried about the comments that a high starch diet while hypocaloric is bad news. In all reality, my thoughts of high starch is probably 40-50% carbs as I'm coming from fruit and veggies with the occasional yam for carbs. So it would probably end up 50/25/25. By the way, if you can't tell, I'm craving rice with a little butter and ground beef right now.
I've cut the exercise down (much less Crossfit WODs) as the level of intensity was too much to recover from as I only get 5-6 hours of sleep a night. My primary goal remains getting down to sub 10% bodyfat which would probably put me around 190. Thoughts? JT, Riles, and Matt, you guys all seem to have experience with situations similar to this. I have switched to one day of heavy lifting, 3 days of metabolic activity in Krav Maga class, and one to two days of sprints or a Crossfit WOD. Good stuff guys.
Follow-up comment to get the e-mails.
rosenfelt,
Yes, I eat a low fat, high carb diet. I have experimented with myself and I found that I function, feel, and look better eating like this. The reason I told Malpaz to avoid all the different types of diets is because someone with a history of eating disorders will risk using these extreme diets as an excuse to restrict and excuse the behavior by claiming it is for health reasons.
I would say that right now I eat about 300-400 grams of starch, 100 grams of sucrose, 150 grams of protein, and 20-30 grams of fat. The only added fat I ever use is ghee, and you might want to try this if you are getting hyoglycemic. I probably eat around a 12 ounces of meat a day, but would like to get this down in the future.
The majority of my food comes from rice. For me it is the easiest food to make and the easiest to digest. Most of the world lives on a diet of mostly white rice, and they are much more healthy than the average american. In the past it was always white rice, but I have been eating a lot of haiga rice lately because I like the taste. It has the outer husk removed, but it still has the germ. This may be something good for you to try if you are worried about lack of nutrients in white rice. You can also do a half/half mix with with white and brown.
I am not really worried about vitamin deficiencies, and I don't think it would be a problem unless I only ate white rice and nothing else. If you eat eat a wide variety of vegetables and meats with the rice then you should be covered. I usually don't take a multivitamin, but I experiment every once in a while. The old time bodybuilders used dessicated liver tabs as their mutivitamin and I have tried that a few times and noticed an energy boost.
Mark,
40-50% is not a high carb diet! I think Matt was talking about 80-10-10 when he was talking about it being a cause of muscle loss on a hypocaloric diet.
I used a higher carb low fat diet when I decided to lean up, and I didn't lose any muscle, actually gained some. I lost a lot of muscle on a low carb diet and i was really weak like you described.
Why don't you just keep it simple and try to get 1 gram of protein/carbs per pound of lean body mass. This should give you enough carbs for energy, and enough protein to prevent muscle loss.
If your goal is optimal body comp then you are not optimizing your training. If I was you I would try out the Metabolic Enhancement Training.
There is no reason to stick to "paleo" carbs. The paleo ideology is fantasy pretending to be science and needs to be discarded so that you can figure out for yourself what works best for YOU. Everyone is different and what works best for one person wont always work or someone else.
I'm kind of baffled right now you guys- I ate about 2 lbs of blueberries for breakfast around 10, then took a nap around 11, and then woke up around 2 because I was sweaty and hungry and took a BG sample. 4 hours after last having food, my blood glucose was 159. I needed to eat something, (brown rice and a few strips of chicken)… and post prandial is 188.
To be completely honest, these numbers are really discouraging and I don't really know what to make of them. They make me really hesitant to eat the amount of food I should for the fear of spiking my blood sugar so high. It'd be nice to hear from some of the people that have made it to the other side with their glucose metabolisms, like Riles and JT. I feel a lot better eating this way, and am more satisfied at meals… but like I said.. I'm nervous.
—–
Sidenote: Do any of you know if Accutane could be hampering my progress with my blood glucose? I already know I have adrenal fatigue, and putting an additional stress on my body probably isn't helping in that way, but do you know if it can effect blood sugar? It was an emergency, intravenous decision (made by my naturopath, my mother, and I 2 months ago) to go on it when I felt I had thoroughly fucked up my face with a low carb stint for a few months. It was so bad that I actually had to go to the ER one night to get a boil on my temple lanced. (And I was under the impression LC would cure my acne! Ha!)
But anyways. My liver enzymes and cholesterol were slightly elevated last month on my monthly blood test (despite eating no processed foods or sugar), and that concerned my ND and she made me do a little UNDA detox that took away a lot of the additional fatigue and back aches that are so common with the medicine.
I'm kind of baffled right now you guys- I ate about 2 lbs of blueberries for breakfast around 10, then took a nap around 11, and then woke up around 2 because I was sweaty and hungry and took a BG sample. 4 hours after last having food, my blood glucose was 159. I needed to eat something, (brown rice and a few strips of chicken)… and post prandial is 188.
To be completely honest, these numbers are really discouraging and I don't really know what to make of them. They make me really hesitant to eat the amount of food I should for the fear of spiking my blood sugar so high. It'd be nice to hear from some of the people that have made it to the other side with their glucose metabolisms, like Riles and JT. I feel a lot better eating this way, and am more satisfied at meals… but like I said.. I'm nervous.
—–
Sidenote: Do any of you know if Accutane could be hampering my progress with my blood glucose? I already know I have adrenal fatigue, and putting an additional stress on my body probably isn't helping in that way, but do you know if it can effect blood sugar? It was an emergency, intravenous decision (made by my naturopath, my mother, and I 2 months ago) to go on it when I felt I had thoroughly fucked up my face with a low carb stint for a few months. It was so bad that I actually had to go to the ER one night to get a boil on my temple lanced. (And I was under the impression LC would cure my acne! Ha!)
But anyways. My liver enzymes and cholesterol were slightly elevated last month on my monthly blood test (despite eating no processed foods or sugar), and that concerned my ND and she made me do a little UNDA detox that took away a lot of the additional fatigue and back aches that are so common with the medicine.
Katerina,
I regards to Accutane I don't know about BG but it sure may make you want to consider suicide. I am not saying that lightly either, or to be funny.
My Brother a very fun loving and jovial dude, took Accutane for about 3 months in high school and while he was on it, it completely changed him. I mean seriously. He was noticeably down, and depressed. I later talked to him about it and he said that he did have thoughts of suicide and really f**ked up dreams.
Just giving you my second had "opinion" on Accutane.
BTW Matt this was a wonderful post and presented in a manner that I would expect from a true douche, who cares little for others.
"The paleo ideology is fantasy pretending to be science…" JT that was one of your best.
I agree with you JT 100 percent. Also, wanted to let you know, that so far, my slightly reduced protein intake with increased starch is going really well. I have noticed an increase in energy and well being, as well as better gym performance and alertness.
Rosentfelt, if you are worried about nutrients I suggest trying par-boiled rice. It has about 80% of those found in brown rice but without the bran.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parboiled_rice
Thanks JT for your input. Luckily I haven't experienced any side effects beyond back aches and a little more pronounced brain fog. I'm making sure that people keep an eye out on me for any changes in behaviour or attitude. As far as I can tell, my attitude changes have been for the better! Having clear skin is an antidepressant in and of itself.
Oh! Sorry- I meant thanks Nathan
Katerina,
I was on accutane twice; full course. Acne comes back after you are done, eventually. I have read some really bad stuff about how accutane alters gene expression, due to affects on the liver, biochem pathways, etc…
I would really recommend getting off it and let a clean 180degree whole foods approach; ie high unrefined carbs, SAT fats and mixed sources of animal proteins. What Matt, JT and other are recommending. I have been following the advice here for 10months now, and skin is slowly healing, up and downs, but getting better.
Hi Jenny, wish I'd seen your comment earlier:
You quoted me: "The other is the guilt component. There's a book called the Guru Papers that covers it pretty well. Basically we're taught to reject our carnal selves in the name of purity and this is enforced through guilt. This rejection of part of the self has all kinds of psychological consequences, one of them being addictive behavior."
Then you said: "The problem is that most classic 12 step treatment programs have a whole period of confession where you have to get together with your family and tell them the worst stories of your addiction. This seems unnecessarily painful to me and it is incredibly traumatic for the families as well. Supposedly this is healing, but I don't know. I would think the guilt and shame dragged out in this circumstance would be overwhelming especially to someone who is physically in a very weak state."
I was going to put this in my original comment but didn't want to get too off topic. The book is quite critical of the twelve step program, which it sees as another authoritarian mechanism to enforce the goodself/badself split. Badself here doesn't actually mean evil, it just means the carnal part of ourselves we've been taught to reject. I wish I had the book here to reference but I'm lending it to a friend.
Actually, I really like Jon Gabriel making the elimination of guilt central to his method. Where do you ever see that in our culture?
Oh wow, Accutane discussions. This blog really does get all over the place.
I never experienced any dramatic behavioral changes, but did you know you have to inform the Red Cross every time you donate blood if you've ever taken it? It's on their medication deferral list.
Jenny, a handle with uric in it would be very fitting, it's true, but I can't think of anything, except for Crazy Uric Acid Lady.
I have, though, been thinking of quite a few eggshell recipes: eggshell tostitos(break shell into 1 inch square pieces and sprinkle with cayenne pepper and salt before baking, add some nutritional yeast when they come out of the oven); scrambled egg on a half shell with a dash of salsa;
fried rice in a halfshell with daikon shavings and a dash of tamari; limitless….. but I have to go to bed.
Jenny, a handle with uric in it would be very fitting, it's true, but I can't think of anything, except for Crazy Uric Acid Lady.
I have, though, been thinking of quite a few eggshell recipes: eggshell tostitos(break shell into 1 inch square pieces and sprinkle with cayenne pepper and salt before baking, add some nutritional yeast when they come out of the oven); scrambled egg on a half shell with a dash of salsa;
fried rice in a halfshell with daikon shavings and a dash of tamari; limitless….. but I have to go to bed.
JT/Riles (or anybody who switched from LC zu HC):
How abrupt has your switch from LC to HC been? Did you measure your blood sugar?
I raised my carbs from about 100/150g to 400/500g a day and my body seems to have problems handling that glucose load. My BG doesn’t spike as high as Katarina’s but it stays pretty high all the time. I even had a FBG of 120 the other day (usually about 100).
I probably will tackle it somewhat more slowly. Reduce my carbs somewhat and raise fat for a couple of weeks and then proceed to a higher carb level.
Eating more rice instead of potatoes improved my digestion a lot. Gas production is down considerably.
@Sven
How I switched frow VLC to HC was with oatmeal and reducing the fat content of my meals. I was basically eating 1g of protein and 1g of carbs per pound of bodyweight each day with scant amounts of fat. I gradually increased my carb intake by the amount of oatmeal I was eating each day. I liked oatmeal at first because it kept my blood sugar stable and kept me satisfied for long periods of time.
I then switched to white rice and increased my carb level a little bit at a time over 8 months.
And finally settled mainly on potatoes with occasional rice for the last 6 months giving me about 500 grams of carbs or 2-2.5g of carbs per pound of bodyweight.
Great comments guys, thanks JT and Riles. Starting last night I have subbed in rice and yams while cutting down on the fruit and added fats. Protein is about the same. I don't know what my macros will end up being all I know is that I had a couple of cups of rice last night with ground beef, some butter, and some sour cream before playing softball and when I went to bed I slept very heavy. It was hard to get up at the usual time, overslept actually. I still feel I'm abiding by the Paleo guidelines as I'm avoiding PUFAs, wheat, and excess fructose. Matt, I'm very much looking forward to your 180 Kitchen Post on meal ideas similar to how you've been eating. I don't know if am going to follow them to a T though because I'm going to stick with my lower calorie (10-13xbdwt) stuff as I've seen good leaning out results. Thanks
Electric Kool-Aid Uric Acid Test
Bad Uric Acid Trip
5% Uric Acid Solution
I can't watch competitive eaters!! I have emetophobia and whenever I see a clip of a competitive eater doing his or her thing, I am frozen in horror at the idea that it might all come back up at any moment. Attending an eating competition would be one of my worst nightmares.
Katerina-
Again, those numbers don't sound good. Like I've said, I have strangely seen people spike blood sugar to Jupiter and feel nothing but benefits from it in terms of how they feel. It's weird. I have a natural hesitation about Accutane as to be expected.
High-carb transition-
Good advice on making that switch, although I personally have had better luck just going carb wild, and if I start to feel a little whacked out I eat a big fatty, meaty meal and then resume carborama. Seems like with each round it gets easier and easier, and I'm increasingly losing interest in heavy food.
The biggest benefits have been decreased body fat, disappearance of chest pains from the milk diet (I will talk about this at great length in the future), and the most other-worldly sleep quality imaginable. I don't go to sleep at night, I slip into a coma.
Digestion is amazing. I probably suck down 80 grams of fiber a day and have no gas and perfectly formed stools. Toilet paper in the bathroom is now just for decoration.
Anyway, I'm pleased with it to say the least.
Mark-
I have mentioned that a calorie-restricted low-fat diet is the most damaging. Here's my offical stance on it:
High-carb intake suppresses fat oxidation, and promotes glucose oxidation as the primary fuel source. When you go too low in calroies in this state, it elevates catecholamines which, if you are oxidizing fat, will trigger stored fat to be released at a greater rate than muscle tissue for fuel. If you are a glucose burner, catecholamines will break down a larger proportion of muscle for fuel.
However, this doesn't appear to be true from very minimal calorie reduction. In fact, since the higher your glucose intake in proportion to fat, the more of your dietary protein is inserted into muscle cells, the more muscle tissue you build whenever you do eat. So you sort of toe the line.
That's why, even if you are cutting calories, it is much more important to listen to your own biofeedback. If you go too low, your body will let you know with intense hunger. It's more important to eat when you are hungry than lose fat. Your body will determine the rate of fat loss that you can achieve on a high-carb/low-fat diet.
As for me, I'm losing a little more than 1 pound per week right now of pure body fat with no negatives to speak of at the moment.
At the very least you should consider brief interruptions in fat loss to overfeed on very high-carb/low-fat. This will rebuild any lost muscle through dieting without fat gain as long as fat is under 10% of calories when overfeeding.
Burger King-
I have had great results in the past eating mostly burgers – from any source. However, when I was 4 years old I went to get these really cool Star Wars glasses (like, to drink out of glasses) at Burger King and they told me that they weren't a "participating store." I've held a strong vendetta against BK ever since. But yes, I've experienced tremendous health improvements from burgers and pizza in the past when eating a diet too low in carbs. High-GI white flour is awesome for overcoming low-carb induced health problems. I wouldn't call it optimal, but can you make it work if you have to? I imagine so.
Malpaz-
Most bodybuilders are obese 10 months per year due to their extreme pre-contest dieting.
As for protein intake and increased metabolism, that is a huge error commonly made in the diet arena. There's nothing wrong with eating adequate protein. That's great. Excessive protein is extremely harmful, most notably to the metabolic rate which I will be discussing in today's post on reactive hypoglycemia. I"ll see if I can get that up in the next hour or so.
Oh and Betsy-
Good feedback on the milk diet and uric acid…
May I suggest the name:
Uric Von Lichtenstein
Sorry, watched too many Heath Ledger movies… sniffle, sniffle.
Good stuff Matt. I've been eating a lot more rice and less protein and carbs. I'm not counting calories anymore, trying to find my natural hunger level and listen to it. I'm basically just not eating PUFAs, wheat, or fructose (I still have some fruit here and there as well as a small amount (< 1 serving) of Ben and Jerry's at night). I already feel like I'm stronger and my mood seems a lot better. Smiling a lot more. Funny you should say that about your sleep. Mine was like a coma last night too!
Aaron wrote:
"I was going to put this in my original comment but didn't want to get too off topic. The book is quite critical of the twelve step program, which it sees as another authoritarian mechanism to enforce the goodself/badself split. Badself here doesn't actually mean evil, it just means the carnal part of ourselves we've been taught to reject. I wish I had the book here to reference but I'm lending it to a friend."
That's kind of a newagey way of saying what I'm saying. It seems like punishment to me to drag all this stuff, so early in the recovery process. (Often the person hasn't completely detoxed from the drugs). I think it all stems from the fact that drug treatment used to be done in prison. It consisted of a doctor coming in and treating your symptoms, maybe giving you methadone or some other palliative and then turning you loose on society when your time was served. I think there is still a strong link between this mentality and current treatment programs since many people are there because a judge gave them a choice of jail or rehab. 12 step is better than the old school sweat it out in jail, but it should probably evolve into something new.
"Actually, I really like Jon Gabriel making the elimination of guilt central to his method. Where do you ever see that in our culture?"
We are totally on the same wavelength on this. I was thinking the same thing, that maybe the Gabriel Method could be used to treat ED. Maybe he should make a separate system for people recovering from them. Instead of turning the "fat programs off" they will want to turn the muscle building programs on or something like that. I don't think you can use the "f" word with people who have anorexia. It would be too scary. Truth is you can't build muscle without adding some fat, but they shouldn't be focusing on that. I can see a program where people visualized their bones remineralizing and their organs getting bigger and healthier. That's what I did to get me through the early phases of milk fasting. Worked wonders, it did. Now when I ever I have a negative thought about body fat, I think how freakin strong my bones are and I feel taller and stronger.
Betsy, I didn't realize you were eating the shells. The people at Diet Fucked who were doing this were grinding the shells up and adding them to juice. The idea of actually eating an egg shell seems totally weird, but I can imagine it might be kind of good. I eat raw pasta so I like things that other people might find unpleasantly crunchy and sharp.
Yes, and I wouldn't cry over eating white rice from a nutrient perspective. It's not exactly white sugar, and you can always supplement brewer's or nutritional yeast eating a high white rice diet, which is what I would do if I was killing the white rice.
But potatoes still crush white rice in head to head battle!!! If you smoke enough cigarrettes with them that is….
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qEzLOKyJnvA
Potatoes are the new bacon!
Matt!
Nice video…I love how it has to be a specific food item/nutrient and not the the diet of natural foods as a whole that brings a long healthy life.
…can't see the forest for the trees…
Yo Matt, the latest diet approach you seem to be advocating sounds a lot like the Weight Watchers "Core" program. Although they don't stress an overfeeding aspect, the emphasis is on eating low fat, whole foods in whatever quantities to achieve natural satiation. Agree/disagree?
Yeah, core is still putting you in a calorie deficit. Weight Watchers Core emphasizes low fat dairy products, (most of which are loaded with all kind of garbage and additives) and using toxic fat sources like cooking spray to keep fat levels low.
Coming here I had to totally unlearn all the rubbish I learned at WW.
Damn, I don't wanna be like Weight Watchers. Maybe I am like their Core program, but my take on Weight Watchers was that you could eat whatever vile garbage you wanted as long as you didn't exceed a certain number of points.
Matt,
regarding PUFAs, what is your current stance? Many on here say they avoid PUFAs, does that mean the Omega-6 heavy sources or PUFAs in general? It seems like everybody except Ray Peat thinks omega-3 is good for you… I think traditional Japanese diets would be high in PUFAs with a high omega-3 vs. omega-6 ratio, as fat intake is generally low while eating fatty fish quite often.
Hans-
I think Peat raises some valid points about all PUFA, but only fish oil megadosers get too much omega 3. Most people would probably benefit by getting more. But the primary imbalance in the modern world needing to be addressed is the absurd amount of omega 6 in the diet.
Ditto your thoughts about both Asian and Polynesian diets. They almost always have higher o3 than o6 intake, with a pretty low intake overall – like 2% of calories.
Hey Matt,
You gonna give us an overview of Metabolic Enhancement Training one of these days? Or some of the other body recomp authors like Jay Robb or Anthony Colpo you mentioned earlier this summer?
Coolbeans, amigo.
Jenny, I don't eat the shells, but someone else was talking about it, and it was late and I was tired, and silly things started to pop into my head: egg shell recipes!
Matt, thank you. And I do like the name, but Urica Von Lichtenstein sounds more feminine.
Rob-
Absolutely. Just took a little one week diversion into eating disorders because they popped up and it seemed appropriate.
And if you are going to call me amigo, you should probably go ahead and say Frijolesfrescos intead of coolbeans.
"Damn, I don't wanna be like Weight Watchers. Maybe I am like their Core program, but my take on Weight Watchers was that you could eat whatever vile garbage you wanted as long as you didn't exceed a certain number of points."
Matt, rest assured you are not like Weight Watchers Core. The old weight watchers points system was exactly what you describe eat anything you want as long as you stay in a steep calorie deficit. Around about 2005-2006 they introduced the Core plan that allows you to eat to satiety from core foods (which include fat free dairy, brown rice, fresh veggies, fruit lean meats) while allowing you 1700 calories a week of whatever else you want. So yeah you can eat 1700 calories of crap a week as long as all the rest of your eating is from this core group. I tried it for a while and HATED it. I hate fat free dairy for one. It's full of rubbish and is only edible when suplemented with gobs of fruit (You can't have sugar added yogurt, for example on CORE). Since WW has always been fat phobic and particularly sat fat phobic, the oils pushed are rubbish like fat free cooking spray, etc. There is no macronutrient ratio pushed in the CORE program. Lots of times I ended up eating a ton of protein to keep full, with a bit of veggies or whatever. In the end I ate a lot of bland meals that were a pain in the butt to make, since my family wanted nothing to do with them. I ended up going very low calorie some days as well since it wasn't always easy to eat my core foods, so I just ate a small amount of crap and went hungry. I kept falling off the wagon. I really hated it. That's when I went to BFFM because there weren't all these restrictions about fat free dairy, no butter etc. It was still low fat, but not as insanely, so. Also the way WW deals with exercise is effed up, and at least BFFM allowed for a few more calories for the level of exercise I was doing.
"Jenny, I don't eat the shells, but someone else was talking about it, and it was late and I was tired, and silly things started to pop into my head: egg shell recipes!"
Ok, you totally had me fooled. It's a good thing, too because I accidently let a few egg shells get in my pad thai last night and I was like, "man this is gross!"
Wow Matt: that blog you just linked to: http://anaregzig.blogspot.com/2007/09/just-would-like-to-show-world-picture.html
How nasty can one get? Plus, I thought she meant the girl was obese before I saw the pic! Do anorexics really see people her size as fat? I thought their main issue was thinking they thmeselves are fat. Wow, just wow….
Holy Crap! I knew there were "pro-ana" sites, but I didn't realize how bad it was 'till I started looking around that blog. Yikes. Sick people. They're all happy that they're mentally ill. Look at the photos and read the comments… it makes me want to go stuff my face with food just to get those sick thoughts outta my head!
Oh, and somewhat irrelevant, but I feed my dog eggshells, crushed up, since she won't learn how to eat bones nicely. And I fed them to the chickens when we had them, it helps keep their egg shells stronger. But I haven't gotten over the idea of eating them myself yet!
This is a great quote from an article written about pro-anorexia sites that actually uses the "about me" section from that very blog as an example of how bizarre the anorexic mindset is:
"Blogger Ana Regzig says on her 'About me':
'I love my eating disorder and I hate you, so FUCK OFF!///// Haters comments WILL be deleted.///// If you aren’t ana [anorexic] but wish you were, fuck off, go count your blessings and eat a sandwich. Wannarexics will not be tolerated.///// If you are disordered and love it, I love you too. Be strong and THINk THIN.///// If you are disordered and in recovery, do yourself a favor and close this page now, call your doctor, and confess that you’ve been searching for pro-ana sites online. Don’t leave me a message, don’t leave me a comment, go away and concentrate on fixing yourself. Don’t try to fix me ? I am not and will not be broken. Someone loves you enough to try to help you ? you shouldn’t be looking at this site?'
This is the strange logic of the pro-ana blogs. 'Feel lucky if you aren’t in our position, but if you are ? Welcome: you ROCK!'"
http://newmatilda.com/2008/11/11/should-pro-ana-sites-be-banned
Lorilei, that's a good idea about feeding egg shells to your dog in place of bones. My dog is small and even chicken bones seemed to be tough on her teeth and digestive tract. If I ever try eggs again, I'm going to give her the shells.
To the females looking for a quick, easy, cheap(free) workout to help lean out: All the talk comparing 180 degree to WW reminded me of Richard Simmons' videos, Dancing to the Oldies. And it made me think that it would be great if Matt would make a short but sweet video of some type of exercise that would help us lean out. What do you say, ladies?
Yeah, those pro-ana sites are pretty nuts. But they are good to read if you have any doubts that anorexia shares pathology with addiction – at least in part. You can hear them talking and referencing the buzz and the high from fasting.
Betsy-
What does Richard Simmons have to do with Uric acid? I thought that you could at least call it a "workgout" instead of a "workout."
Yeah, I've ordered some short shorts, leg warmers, and a red head band from Amazon. The thigh master is on backorder, but as soon as that comes in we're gonna get physical!
Matt, Funny! Sometimes I can't figure out how to say what I want to say, and right now I'm actually wishing there were some emoticons here!
So true, though, I didn't find a way to tie it in with uric acid.
Short shorts, leg warmers, and a red head band are good, but it might not work without a perm.
And all the ladies said: Bring it on!!!
Who the hell said I wasn't going to perm my hair?
Glenn Beck, of course.
We want a video, Matt !! We want a video, Matt !!
We want more ! We want more ! Always more ;)
Martin !
Interesting, but are you recommending carbs for patients with intestinal disease? I used to suffer from celiac disease and cfs, and I was accused of being anorexic by doctors because I kept fasting to avoid intestinal pain and fatigue. Eventually I found the specific carbohydrate diet and made a full recovery.
Breaking the Viscious Cycle by Elaine Gottschall is the classic introduction to this diet if your interested.
The main idea is that intestinal disease is caused by damage to the villi, which leaves them unable to digest disaccharides. Candida then feeds on the disaccharides, producing acids which causes further damage to villi.
This could explain the success of paleo and fruitarian diets, which generally prohibit starches and disaccharides.
It's also the main diet promoted as a cure for autism: Jenny McCarthy promotes a similar diet.
Wonderful post… Very informational and educational as usual!
Acai Berry Optimum
I am very surprised about reading this blog. I never thought this actually exist. I am really happy that many can relate to my present problem. I am so eager to read and learn more.
Also, I'd like to see the video they have been telling about. Please share :)
anorexia protein
The only problem I had with the no carb diet it that awful breath that you get and if you are not careful you will definitely gain the weight back.
Thanks for the great post on anorexia just wanted to share my experience.
Steve
People with anorexia continue to think they are overweight even after they become extremely thin, are very ill or near death.
Hi,
I am recovering from this disorder and am trying to figure out what to do regarding carbs…
When I was released from the hospital I was told I needed to eat about 7 starches a day.
I had a bit of a relapse when I returned home, and started skimping on the starches. Currently my daily consumption is pretty minimal, about 1/2 serving oatmeal in the morning (65 cal), up to a piece of bread (sometimes) at lunch (70 cal), and half a bran muffin (40 cal) before bed.
I know carbs need to be reintroduced slowly, so if anyone could point me in the right direction as far as how many to add a day (in terms of calories or grams) and how to slowly increase that'd be really great.
Thanks a million to everyone on here.
Pink Cheekies…
You are probably going to have to continue to experiment on your own. Most important is an increase in calories, which will raise metabolism, decrease any reactive hypoglycemia you may experience from carbohydrates, and so forth. But starches are key to raising the metabolism. I also believe that sugars are often a suitable form of carbohydrates for someone recovering from starvation, so experiment with those as well and see what you get.
Still trying to recover from anorexia bulemia and over exercise. Dealing with massive fatigue, sleep issues,panic, and raised bg levels. Has anyone reversed this reactive hypoglycemia?
Anonymous-
Definitely. Feel free to contact me on Facebook or via email to get some things sorted out. It can be a wild roller coaster and is virtually impossible to pull off without some guidance.
If I don't hear from you, a good place to start is eating small meals, mostly of starches with some accompanying fat and protein but not excessive amounts, every 1-2 hours throughout the day until things start to improve.
As they do, you can start to withstand increasingly larger meals with increasingly larger carbohydrate loads without having a hypoglycemic attack.
i become hypoglycemic immerdiately eating anything. I am basically constantly feeling it no matter what I eat. How much should I be eating? Are grains starch?
You can medicate it often with a higher protein intake, but this usually causes a spiraling down effect of your health coming from such an undernourished state.
Right now, the best success I'm having is with people eating starch-based snacks (yes, grains are great, especially whole, intact grains that require a lot of chewing like whole oat groats, quinoa, rice – white or brown) every 2 hours or so all day long.
It's unlikely to go all that smoothly, but if you can press forward with it the chances of rehabilitating are pretty good.
A little bit of molasses with your small snacks can help too, as well as a little fat. In an underfed state, there's some indication that fructose found in the sucrose molecule can do a better job at loading the liver with glycogen. This would be helpful if that's the core problem, as the lack of glycogen release is the cause of the hypoglycemic feelings in the first place – either that or just too big of an insulin release in response to food which blunts that release (this seems to be the self-perpetuating dilemma of eating disorders, as in this underfed state eating makes you feel like shit due to the reactive hypoglycemia).
Anyway, best of luck. Contact me on Facebook or via e-mail if you need to. sacredself@gmail.com