Oh yeah, nothing like some good old fashioned 11Beta Hydroxysteroid Dehydrogenase. I know it was on everyone’s mind lately, so I thought I’d bring it up. Thanks to Shawn Talbott (shown left), author of The Cortisol Connection, as well as Jon Gabriel of the The Gabriel Method for turning?me on to this intracellular enzyme that takes inactive corticoids and converts them into cortisol, our buddy and driving?force of the creation of the infamous potbelly.
I do think 11Beta HSD is a huge?game changer though. Knowing the properties of cortisol, it’seems?increasingly obvious that it is the primary driver of insulin resistance, leptin resistance,?obesity, metabolic syndrome, type 2 diabetes, and so on. At least in theory it should be, due to its?basic properties. But in actuality, most people?don’t have high cortisol levels. In fact, most people tend to have cortisol levels on the low side due to adrenal fatigue/hypoadrenia which we are bound to discuss in the near future.
But with 11Beta?HSD, which is particularly active in liver and adipose’tissue, particularly in the abdominal region, you don’t have to have high cortisol levels to have high cortisol levels. Does that make’sense?? Anyway, watch the?2-part video and don’t make?fun of my hair or how I say “considerable”?orI will freakin’ cut your face man! ?Check out my eBook about how to RAISE YOUR METABOLISM!!!
Ha! I was just trying to read The Cortisol Connection and was very distracted by this author photo on the back cover… it's unusual and makes him look like a real chatterbox, no?
*Fights urge to make fun of Matt's hair.*
*Fights urge to make a jab about the ridiculous pronunciation of the word consiberdiderable.*
Dang. Now I have nothing left to say.
Nice post Matt. I'd be interested to hear what you think of Dr. Bryan Walsh and his view on the adrenals/hormonal levels…not sure if you've read any of his material
Walsh seems great to me Ahmed. You can see many themes we've been discussing recently in this Walsh video…
http://www.drbryanpwalsh.com/ASI.html
As I have no impulse control.. I must say..
fuzzy wuzzy.
I like it.
as a hairdresser, I love a good buzz cut.
and your hats fit better. You know, for the winter?
or if you plan to rob the local 7-11.
Now I will finish listening to you talk and garble the English language.
xo
deb
FIRST STEP IN GETTING RID OF BELLY FAT
love thy self … be comfortable in your skin like this person
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NdWk1m5rE5M
and btw, I do live in a cage.
Don't hate on us rodents.
Didn't you see the movie "Ben"? the ORIGINAL Rat movie, not the horrible remake.
Ben, the two of us need look no more…..
:>)
Chief: are you suggesting that self love will substitute for slutty loving/sex? Cuz that's how I took it. {;)
DEB, your secrets out ……our health convo will have to be in the haircut chair now!
MATT,
wonder if the lack "hockey hair" will give the paleo crowd something else to criticize beside the carb face..
i can see it now
matt stone is going bald now because of his grain consumption ! !
DEB ,
alot of substitutes work for some people ….you should see with just cuddles ! for some reason I assume hubbies would still frown upon that
Chief I will fix up that mohawk of yours any old day.
and Yeah, hubby would not be down with any cuddling. Unless it was with him, by me.. not you :P
I think the rumor will be Matt Stone is joining the Hari Krishna sect and going veg on us. Just to stir the pot as it were….
love you guys
deb
Belly fat, belly fat, belly fat….that's all I can say…..lol…..
This enzyme is my enemy! lol……curses to 11Beta HSD…..
But seriously SUPER interesting to hear this Matt. It makes sense that the body becomes primed to gain fat.
It also makes sense when you say that the people in the study (and also us poor old RRARFers) gained the belly fat back for protection. Yes, OK, I get it body. You're smarter than me….you're just trying to protect me from myself and my crazy low carb ideas….
I gained 101% of my belly fat for sure, I may have even gained 300% of it….lol….
For sure you are totally right about dieting causing fat gain. I've never in my life had this big a belly, ever. I didn't go on low carb to loose weight but to kill candida. I didn't kill the candinda and now I'm fat….lol….
I also remember being ravenously hungry while being so full I could not possibly stick anything more into my mouth. My boyfriend thought I was crazy when I specifically complained to him about this issue….lol. It was so strange to experience it.
I can't tell you how much I can't wait for week 33….week 58 is going to be a major celebration…..lowering cortisol must be super good also for my breathing issues. I wonder if that could be a factor in your asthma improvements….
This is the best video I've seen so far. It's so on point about the entire issue we as a society are facing today. Well done Matt!
Matt you look and sound more full of energy and health than ever! How long was it since you started RRARF and did you notice this 58 week turnaround in your own journey?
I could do low carb or low anything for the rest of my life if I believed it would cure me….cause I've got such strong insane nazi will power and so much motivation in all my health symptoms, pain, fatigue etc, but I'm not sure my adrenals could do it long term and the cost for the metabolism would have been super grave…..
Lisa-
I wish I would have been more RRARF dedicated. Instead I spent too much time wrapped up in little curiosities like low-fat, or eating tons of fruit at the exclusion of many other foods for better hiking endurance. I also pigged out on junk food with Aurora while she was fattening herself up and did the whole milk diet thing, which seemed to not treat me very well at all.
But I have more muscle and less fat, particularly belly fat, than I had around the New Year. My only real truly RRARF experience for more than 2 weeks was in November and December of last year. I'm not a very good role model!
Even so, I'm in such better shape than I was 2 years ago from an overall health and well-being perspective, with WAY more dietary freedoms, and my body composition is moving in the right direction. What more could I ask for?
"They did it all hanging out, eating whatever they wanted, and not doing any forced exercise."
So why have I just steadily gained about 25 pounds from age 18 to 25 doing just that? Seriously, this is a frustration for me as I have never consciously restricted calories or macronutrients, haven't pushed myself to exercise for years, have never eaten a lot> of junk food (compared to average American), and over the past few years have steadily been eating a more nourishing and whole-foods diet. Yet I don't really see any improvements, and I have gained weight since starting RRARF in July (I since have gone back to just normal eating-to-appetite, since it felt like that's all I was doing anyway).
Some encouragement?
Rachelle-
I think it is always going to come back to chronic cortisol overexposure. The most likely culprits of being in that "store energy, don't burn it" state are excess PUFA accumulation in tissues and cells (something that has become potentially a systemic and pervasive root problem), chronic infection, piss poor heredity from the above problems, and anything else really that can foster that chronic cortisol exposure – down to things as simple as being self-conscious about body weight.
Part of the reason for the creation of RRARF was the belief that people really needed the extra push to have a true metabolic breakthrough and start reversing the process in the other direction.
But getting "unstuck" is definitely tricky and a personal exploration for everyone.
Matt
Can we look Lady GAG a in a cage and overfeed her?
Oh please say yes!
to Rachelle: maybe you need more activity in general.. why when I was your age.. all we wanted to do was Dance, Dance, Dance, Keep On Dancin'!.. picture solid gold dancers.. and drink.. a lot.. and dance..and do our hair and makeup.. lather, rinse repeat.. for years!
I bet you thought I was going to say that I walked to school, uphill, in the snow barefoot ten miles a day? :)
On a more serious note, how about just walking, moving around more in general, yoga? May get your engines moving a bit faster.
Just an old hag's opinion
deb
LOCK Lady GAG a in a cage. jeez. now I can't spell, what's next?
Matt:
That sounds great Matt. I think that RRARF offers a lot of personal and individual freedom and it seems to have a very wide margin. I really like that about RRARF. It seems in your case that just the idea of generally feeding yourself a lot of calories and not over exercising had been healthy and healing. It's good to hear! I think you also started out with a much, much higher level of overall health so you may not have needed to go fully aggressive in order to heal your metabolism.
Thanks again Matt for all your hard work and for being here for all of us when we're trying to make up for previous mistakes.
I just realized though that the Key's study subjects were only starving for 24 weeks, I was on low carb for 36 months….I hope that doesn't mean I'll have to be in the fat gain period much, much longer than 33 weeks….do you know if this is true or do you think it's possible that the 33 weeks is basically all it takes, no matter how long the starvation went on?
Rachelle:
I think we're living in a very different world today with hidden refines sugars like crystalline fructose corn syrup in mostly everything and especially in liquid forms like in soft drinks. Not to mention the PUFA's Matt mentioned, and the poor heredity and chronic infection/inflammation. Also, we tend to eat low fat dairy, while back then people would eat more whole foods, and we know that we live in a world with way more toxins in the overall environment, and yes, the body ideal has gotten way thinner and we're constantly bombarded with anorexic images and also a general judgement that other people have when they see body fat: the immediately think "eat less, exercise more". In other words people assume you have poor self control and are lazy if you have excess body fat cause that's the theory that's prevailing society.
Debbie:
I was lucky enough to always walk to school, through the forrest actually. Those were the days….lol….and oh Disco Debbie….that sounds great. I was so sad that I never got a disco outfit that the other kids in school had….it was all pastel colors and knee high pants as one suit….so great….
I'm reading The Cortisol Connection right now as well, along with The Circadian Prescription – a pretty interesting pairing.
Ever since the last post I keep singing "Belly fat, belly fat, what are they feeding you?" (Phoebe's "Smelly Cat" song from Friends). HA!
-Gina A.
Hey Lisa, the dancing we did was in the late 80's early 90's.. to all kinds of music and bands. When it was Disco time, I was a rocker chick and hated disco.
I love it now..
Here's a belly fat song for ya:
Belly Fat, Belly Fat, oh belly belly fat, belly fat!
I think the original lyric is "lollipop".
xo
Wait what? Two big hitters agree on something as controversial as the adrenals! That's breaking news to me haha…
Thanks Matt! Really like Walsh's viewpoints too.
"wonder if the lack "hockey hair" will give the paleo crowd something else to criticize beside the carb face.." haha – that's how I found this blog – saw that comment about Matt on another blog, which made me curious about who they were picking on. A lot of interesting ideas here.
Hey Matt: How come every time I eat a yam I feel like I ate Ten giant yams? Does that resistant starch just explode in your stomach or what?
Sorry, I just have a curious mind.
Matt, I'm like 15 weeks into high-carb after a few years of low-carb and some serious periods of ridiculous low-cal and high-stress.
I've gained some belly fat (5-8lbs?). No surprise since I'm still eating 4,5-6,5k cals a day and not exercising. I'm feeling really good, and as soon as I start training again, I have no doubts this will fal right off.
Enjoying these posts/videos.
I have just recently removed veggie oil, fruit, aspartame and coffee from my diet and added loads of carbs now I am quite ill. My sinuses have gone crazy. Is this part of the process or just a coincidence?
I am diabetic with a history of low carb dieting. I am doing a HED diet.
Debbie I am the same way with potatoes in general, they fill me up like crazy. After a few new potatoes I cant look at them amymore…
Might help that Potatoes are known to be the most satisfying food, by quite a way aswell. Check out http://www.mendosa.com/satiety.htm
Pah, silly mortals! Most of my potato meals probably hover around 1kg of potatoes.
speaking of you don't have to have high cortisol levels to have high cortisol levels
i have some hypothyroid high cortisol symptoms, hot flashes during stress, thin skin especially around the eyes, noisy and becoming stiff and probably arthritic joints, water retention and my mind feels wrecked a lot of the time. this is since i was a child i'm 22 now
however i have plenty of muscle and around 10% bodyfat lazing around most of the day eating cheese and potatoes.
so i have both good and bad levels of cortisol. there are different kinds of cortisol too i don't know what exactly each does.
of course i can also eat a massive meal, have a temp of 99f and feel freezing cold so my body is a bit fuckin strange haha. i've started dessicated thyroid and am feeling some good effects already. i'll make a post about it when it (hopefully) really takes effect.
and for those familiar with the Buteyko method my control pause is about 5 seconds which is… low. it doesn't improve either with the exercises. i've always breathed through my nose and diaphragm and have no respitory problems, am physically fit and never out of breath so… hopefully dessicated thyroid will do it for me as low carbon dioxide is another hypothyrod symptom.
matt, you comment on your previous post that you encounter some health issues by eating a lot of butter, would you mind telling us what were those issues ?
Cheers
I'm glad Chief showed up too. I've regained my confidence in "Just eat the food!"
My biggest problem was (is) that I'm putting a time expectation on how long it takes my body to heal and then begin shedding the extra fat, in particular the insidious belly fat. I figured, oh, 2 to 3 months ought to do it. Uh, not. Which meant that I spent all the time between then and now worrying about when I would start to lose fat.
But in a way that's good, because I'm not sure I could have psyched myself up for carrying the fat around for 7-8 months like it has been now. I passed my 33rd week a few weeks ago – maybe I'm crazy (because the scale hasn't shown any change in months) but I think my belly is just slightly smaller in the last two weeks. Some days I put my belt on my jeans and it goes to a never-before-used hole (I bought the belt 6 months ago when my old one refused to go 'round.)
Studying the graphs from the last post, I see that the fat gained/lost is way more dramatic than weight gained/lost, which agrees with my experience. My weight leveled off months ago, and since then (again, I could be crazy) it seems as if my muscle tone is returning UNDERNEATH the layer of fat. Hopefully the difference I feel in my belly is the beginning of the shedding of the fat.
@Danyelle: Being confident in this method, I think, will bring about the most healing. I can't count how many hours I've wasted worrying about fat gain and loss during the last two years. Frankly I think worrying about weight held my metabolic healing back quite a bit. I know there were many times when I ignored my hunger or pushed myself to exercise because I was concerned about weight. And I know this hindered far more than it ever helped, and probably spawned more weight gain than I would have had if I had just let go and let happen.
@Elizabeth
"And I know this hindered far more than it ever helped, and probably spawned more weight gain than I would have had if I had just let go and let it happen ."
Somebody's been listening to Jon Gabriel's bedtime CD! I love it, it knocks me right out.
And I know what you mean – sometimes I start thinking about my weight and my body and suddenly realize my whole body is tense. That just can't be good for cortisol levels.
Ha ha, I've officially been indoctrinated by Jon Gabriel. Yes, I'll admit I heard his voice in my head when I typed those words out.
I've spent the last couple months renewing my obsession with weight loss. It crept up on me slowly, I barely knew it was happening until I woke up one day realizing I was hating my body, over concerned about the scale, and craving sugar again!
i have been on rrrrarrrrrrrf for a month now… been reading these posts also. now i feel i have to join in. i was underweight when starting this and in that month i have gained about 7-9lbs and my body temperature has increased 95.6->97.3.
i want to know from those people who have been doing this for a few months now: how long did it take for your body temp to return? did your symptoms get worse at first?
i really love talking about this stuff.
Look forward to it Tarpel. There is no doubt that any attempt to put hormones into writing is a massive oversimplification. Your issues are a case in point. But various themes and patterns do emerge that enable a conversation like this to reach many in need.
Grok-
Lots of exercise on low-carbs with low-calories and high stress can be murder if given enough time – especially if you are lean and don't have body fat of your own to tap into for extra energy. Hopefully you're feeling better, stronger, more calm, relaxed, rejuvenated, and so on.
Danyelle-
What's important to note is the sequence, and understand it.
1) Dieting makes body shed fat first.
2) Body panics at food shortage, sheds lots of muscle tissue and slows down metabolism
3) Body primes itself for restoring fat levels for safety
4) Stop dieting, body fat returns first, mostly in the abdomen where it's most needed to fuel vital organs during famine
5) Body fat becomes plentiful, body's feeling good and safe
6) Body increases metabolic rate and rebuilds lost muscle tissue
7) Body fat levels decrease
Many people have gone through that natural progression, and eventually it gets to the point in many where scale weight remains the same or even increases while body fat levels decline, particularly in the waist.
This is really amazing when you think about it – being in positive calorie balance (gaining muscle and total weight) while being in negative fat balance (more fat burned than stored).
Anyway, I need to go eat.
Noah-
The excess butter consumption seemed to be mostly problematic because it was displacing so much carbohydrate. Carbohydrate is good stuff. Butter is only good up to a point when you're no longer getting enough carbohydrate. There are advantages to a predominatly glucose-dominant energy system I feel, but a mix is probably the best.
Yo!
That's fun to say. When you do RRARF and reintroduce carbs after a long carb siesta the adrenals really shut down. This is healing, but can feel awful. Almost like withdrawals, and allergies and aches and pains increase. But this should not last. It is very typical to have a negative experience on RRARF during the first few weeks until the adrenals start to come back to life. Let us know how everything turns out, and how your blood sugars are effected if you monitor them (which you should).
Narnar-
That's already an impressive increase. You'll already be better off there than you were at a far lower temp. After doing RRARF full-on for a while, I would just go to eating to appetite and being moderately active. This is more of a reasonable long-term approach, it just takes time. RRARF is a jumpstart.
Chief,
You talk about a period back in your fat days. Did you overcome this Matt Stone RRARF style? How long did it take, what made you fat initially, and how did you come to your own similar conclusions similar to Matt's?
Matt,
How long have you been avoiding hunger and exercise to start noticing improvement in body composition (including time trying different diet experiments)?
Everybody,
Is anybody achieving sustained temps of 97.8 and above? My glucose control is awesome, but temps still like to hover around 97.4. Once in a while it'll be burning hot, but it doesn't stay. Anybody have any tips on getting it up those last few notches? I eat RRARF style as much as I can, but am not going to avoid social situations.
Aaron-
The first time I dedicated myself to never allowing myself to experience hunger and omitting exercise was around 2005. I was mostly eating fruit, dried fruit, raw juices, salads, chocolate, nuts, seeds, sprouts, fish, rice, coconut water, and sprouted breads. Some coconut oil. I was living in Hawaii.
It helped a lot healthwise, but I lost some muscle mass due to being primarily a juice and fruit-based vegetarian.
In 2007 I started on Schwarzbein. It seems that combining starch, veg, meat, and fat at EVERY meal and snack really helped. Estimated macronutrient breakdown was about 15% carb, 20% protein, and 65% fat or slightly higher. My hunger was totally gone. Eliminating most simple sugar except for a little fruit really helped I feel, and still does today.
I started gaining muscle immediately but didn't really notice for about a month. My pants were falling off and my shirts weren't fitting in the arms and chest and suddenly I had noticeable definition in my triceps and stuff like that. Then abs started emerging. Scale weight went from 175 to 175 – no change at all.
Then I went to hard exercise as a ranger again. Dropped to 168 and near Bruce Lee body with no resistance exercise.
Then jumped to over 180 pounds and puffy and hungry, with mad sugar cravings returning, sleep loss, tooth pain, mood went south, indigestion, and so on (to also answer Noah's question).
But eventually with less exercise and continuing to eat well, with at least an occasional carb binge (due to my body's smart cravings) I restored leanness at near 175 with good muscularity. Did some weightlifting too, but that didn't really have that much of an impact.
Of course, my last episode of ranger work followed by a vegan diet experiment is what made me gain the most fat I've ever gained. I would have never done any of that or gained that weight if it wasn't for being forced to work another summer. It took me 3 months to start losing fat after gaining it.
But then I screwed around again and stalled my progress.
But now I have the best muscularity of my life (with the least total quantity of exercise in the last 12 months of my adult life), and am slowly leaning out.
Matt,
Don't you think it is a little oversimplifying to say that all dieting to lose fat is detrimental to health.
I think that the body looks at things like food(calorie + nutrient) in long term trends over months and even years.
"Coaxing" the body to burn fat through a relative caloric deficit over a long period of time will have a lot different hormonal change and response as opposed to "forcing" it through a absolute caloric deficit done in a short period of time.
"Yet I don't really see any improvements, and I have gained weight since starting RRARF in July (I since have gone back to just normal eating-to-appetite, since it felt like that's all I was doing anyway).
Some encouragement?"
Rachelle,
for what its worth, the body does not share our belief in how we should, or should not look – ie: rippling midsection, tight backside, etc. (our perceived image of how we believe this should be)
It's aim is stasis.
Eating fulfills the energetics and healing requirements of the organism. Eating is also the body's way of meeting these neurological energy requirements that arise because of stresses, worries, concerns about what is happening in life at present.
There is a 'wisdom of the body' that looks after this and the 'results' we see don't always match our perceived ideal image.
That's not to say that one is destined to remain with the body shape one has indefinitely, because the organism is constantly in a state of flux as it rises to meet everyday demands, always driven by a wisdom that aims for balance and healing.
And many an individual, who has removed or addressed some of the additional everyday stresses, concerns, worries, wishes etc, has found that the body has indeed lost weight subsequently as the above situation alters.
One can also start to embrace one's body as it is now, recognising that although it may not be completely fathomable why, it is doing what it needs to do now to meet its healing and energetic needs.
Matt, I appreciate all the hell you've put your body through for us. Hearing it all spelled out like that in one post makes it all hit home.
liz: It's amazing how that Jon Gabriel just sneaks into your brain. I find myself quoting him a lot. It must be those evening relaxations.
JR, where the hell you been?
Get yo ass back here, LOL!
J.R. I just want to say that was one hell of a good comment.
@AaronF "Is anybody achieving sustained temps of 97.8 and above?"
My BBT has not dipped below 97.8 since about May. It was the highest ever when I was on a raw milk fast for 2 weeks, but the amazingly high numbers slowly returned to normal in a few weeks.
I notice the highest temperatures (98.4 F) if I:
1. really stuff the food in the day before.
2. do some high intensity exercise, like Tabatas or even tennis for 30 minutes. (my temperature stays elevated for several days after this, as opposed to one day with the over-feeding.)
3. it's the second half of my cycle, which I don't think would apply to you.
Oh, and to answer Aaron's question about temperature: mine is never under 97.8 (when I check, which I'll admit is not often anymore). Usually I see 98.1 or 98.3, but during the last part of my cycle I can still see 98.9 or above on some days.
Liz you are HOT!!!!!!!!
I always test around 97.8-98.2 rain or shine. Can't really see an effect unless I have a super stressful, cannot sleep kinda 24 hours.
but If I was as Hot as Liz I would be really happy.
<3
I think we'd all be happy to be as hot as Liz.
"JR, where the hell you been?
Get yo ass back here, LOL!"
Real Will,
ha! My ass been here since way back when Bruce K first started singing the praises of this site. I find Matts writing engaging and entertaining. The direction he's been steering the ship of late, just seems more appropriate for my comments now.
Elizabeth,
your comment appreciated!
Debbie:
Oh I see, a rocker chick! That's phenomenal! I was Goth in the 80s….very dark….lol. I'm thinking Phoebe Buffay's "Smelly Cat" might work for a new song:
Belly fat, Belly fat,
What are they feeding you?
Belly fat, Belly fat,
It's not your fault!
Generally regarding feeling of fullness and getting enough calories in, I've noticed that if I totally LOVE the taste of the food I'm eating, I can eat tons more. If the food is not so exciting to me I have to squeeze it down.
Tarpel:
I'm sorry to hear your CP is that low and that the exercises aren't working for you either. I've been sitting 4 times per day doing painful breath holds for just about a year now and my CP will not go over 20 seconds. It's kind of difficult to say the least. I noticed that Matt overcame his asthma just doing RRARF and that's great news to people like us. It's possible that once the body heals, the hyperventilation may improve all by itself.
May I ask you if your upper palate is narrow or wide? Ie did you ever have crooked teeth that required using braces? I did and I think it may have something to do with my hyperventilation.
Hi Lisa
Go on my FB page, the photos under "the 80's: it's all about the hair" to see my goth look. Bauhaus anyone?
For Anyone:
Does a Plantain cooked in coconut oil count as a starch? It is sweet but I think it is more akin to a sweet potato. Jury?
I love plantains!
deb
Thanks everyone.
I think cortisol probably does have a lot to do with it, as I know I do not handle stress (or anger) well.
JR-
Believe me, I really am not expecting to be super thin! I'm 5'5" and probably pushing 160 lbs (haven't weighed in a while). I wasn't real happy with my body at late teens, but now I think that would be a reasonable weight for me. Also I don't have a lot of energy and tend to have a low body temp, so I know some healing is definitely needed. I just feel like I'm not really gonna get there just by eating freely of nourishing foods, since that is what I have been doing pretty much all along.
Matt,
How do you explain people who lose massive amounts of weight under stress (presumably in the presence in high cortisol levels) and do not have rebound weight gain past their starting level after the stress is gone and massive re-feeding ensues?
I am just this sort of person. I dropped 10 pounds in 3 weeks last month in response to some serious relationship stress, during which time I also (by circumstance, not by will) underate and underslept. I also walked an insane amount during this time. I was very lean to begin with, at 6'3" and 172 pounds, and in fact, the highest weight I've ever attained is just 175 pounds (on the milk diet a few months ago). None of this is too remarkable, except that now that my stress is over, and I've been walking as little as possible (and otherwise not exercising at all), sleeping a ton (until 1 pm today, for example), and gorging myself on as much fat and starch as possible for the last few weeks, I still can't even get my weight back into the 170s. And I want to weigh more than 170 pounds. I've only regained 6 or 7 of the 10 pounds I lost and even if I'm up 1 pound one day, I might be down 2 the next!
Moreover, this is not an unfamiliar experience for me. During my early 20s, as my stress load grew and grew, my weight got progressively lower and lower, and not only did it never rebound past its starting level, it tended not to rebound at all–even as I ate tons and tons of crap without restraint or exercise. Switching to an all-whole foods diet in 2009 caused me to lose even more weight, and I actually went as low as 145 pounds when I never tried to lose any weight at all!
Discovering your site and the HED and doing the milk diet earlier this year are the only reasons I ever managed to get my weight back over 170. But why has undereating under stress never resulted in weight rebound or even easy weight recovery for me once the stress is over and my calorie consumption is returned to absurd heights (with a sedentary lifestyle to boot)?
"I wasn't real happy with my body at late teens, but now I think that would be a reasonable weight for me. Also I don't have a lot of energy and tend to have a low body temp, so I know some healing is definitely needed. I just feel like I'm not really gonna get there just by eating freely of nourishing foods, since that is what I have been doing pretty much all along."
Rachelle,
that may or may not be the case, brief exchanges online reveal little of the background factors and medical issues involved.
I will say, however, that there are numerous indivduals who recover from serious illnesses, including cancer, who do manage to 'heal' the mind/body unit with nutritious food and a fresh perspective. And generally the fresh perspective is not so much co-erced or willed, but rather comes into being when things previously accepted as immutably real, reveal themselves not to be.
The organism has a healing wisdom that is most flexible and adaptable.
Thanks for your comments.
Interesting post, I have never heard of Cortisol before and it's relation to body fat.
I guess you do learn something new every day
Bryan C
@Mike Jones:
Give yourself much more time. You say you dropped the weight from serious relationship stress last month? In my experience, the body can take months and months to recover from that. I dropped about 20lbs in a few weeks due to a major stress in my life (I was just like Jon Gabriel's cat) and even drinking like a fish and eating whatever/whenever (as a former chronic low-carb dieter/overexerciser) it took 6-8 months for me to regain weight back to my high set point.
Don't underestimate the effects of severe stress on your body. It can takes years to recover, I think.
Now if I could only get myself back to that low set point, I would be jumping for joy…
AaronF,
my method is rarrf-ish but alot more complex.
how it is that me and matt see eye to eye on a lot of things in regards to health? I honestly don't know lol call it law of averages or quantum physics all I know is it's a good thing. HI 5 matt ! lol
My path was due to my unique environment, I read alot, my culture, my approach to life and probably most importantly 1.) I refused to believe i was incapable of success and 2 ) I refused to believe the common dogma of body weight management to be true, to the point of intensely arguing with friends without having any evidence (which is really frustrating)
how long did it take to get to this point " in the rabbit hole" ? as matt once called it. its been a real long time and depends on how you look at it really, because I've been studying all kinds of nutrition and lifestyle stuff since as long as I can remember.
I was fat for say 4 years once as a preteen and once as an adult. to rectify this the first time it was automatic with poverty induced starvation followed by puberty. second time it took a lot of trial and error and research….alot I even purposely gained weight to learn, now i don't fear it at all.
how long did it take me ? Years really because of trial and error and research …if I did it again with what I now know ? (which is most likely what you really want to know) …it would take me 60 days tops at my worst point to be on the safe side but honestly most likely 30 or less. .
now a days Im still experimenting but more to figure out a way to avoid the weight gain some see rarrfing or how to make skinnies put on weight.
mike jones,
stress does not equal starvation response chronic stress interpreted as such by the body does.
you simply handle the stress in a different way like Gazelle said jon gabriel's cat style.
I call this immediate threat stress response. models under stress feel like at any moment they can get the axe and food is the obstacle…. obvious results occur
EVERYONE,
interesting things occurring at home, thought I should share. First, I finally got a serious challenge, consulting for a whole family…. husband more than 100 pounds over weight wife at least 60 2 children under 5 at least ten pounds overweight…Let's see if they can commit to change. …whoo hoo
secondly, i just finished a new experiment,
went from vancouver to montreal by car eating a reduced calorie diet for one week of the worst food i could find… " THE TIM HORTON'S DIET" cheated with pizza once and ate eggs and home fries at a 24 hour breaky place once, the rest was mostly bagels, sandwiches, croissants n hot cocoa etc threw a couple of servings of pepsi in for good measure lol sleeping half ass…… results ten pounds gained in a week :) , bloated look, some of it was probably water and what not … got home … back in the gym (minimal) eating like a madman and sleeping good .. ten pounds gone in 5 days ….body weight set point anyone ??
Chief I wish I had your testosterone and your set point. You can keep the mohawk, not a good look for me.
What if those of us who want to lose a few tell ourselves we want to gain a few? Will we be able to fool our bodies into actually losing weight?
Or is that rrarf in a nutshell?
:)
no like the mohawk huh ..thought you were a RAWker chick lol
to answer your question, in a roundabout way sort of-ish lol..i think the weight gain is more of a side effect to what is really going on … i think i have found a way to dodge the fat gain bullet I need more guinea pigs to say for sure still testing but looks very promising.
I would say … its like on the matrix don't try to bed the spoon …. only realize the truth there is no spoon !
simply don't give a shit :) about the fat realize the truth you ain't in charge ..so be the best helper instead.
Deb you can make your own set point …mine was manifested by my own doing .. I do think that due to free radicals and a few other factors it is harder with age but far from impossible.
Lisa E-
my upper palate is wide and all my teeth are straight. wide nostrils too. i started HED over a year and a half ago and its done nothing for my hypo symptoms. theres a few other things that make me think i am hypo from birth so hopefully dessicated thyroid will work.
if you are doing the breathing exercises on your own apparently its impossible. your breathing changes as soon as you focus on it and it just doesn't work. i was using the diy breathing device here http://www.normalbreathing.com/books.php
About temperature. Mine stays anywhere from 95.5 – 97.3 being the highest in the morning but always dropping later on :-( I can't seem to keep them up?!
Also.. this is just a theory of mine. My blood work on Urea has been high for many, many months. Doctors strangely didn't make much of it. they just explained it by me being a bodybuilder and therefor having a high protein intake, which I also did have at one point but then I went vegan and actually cut protein all together. My readings was still high? I now know that this was my beginning of metabolic breakdown and this went on for a long, long time.
I began RRARF almost 2 months ago and don't know how my blood work look now.. Yes, I will get to the point, lol!
My point is, I think high Urea and fat gain is closely linked to each other, meaning that fat loss will not happen before Urea is back within normal range (meaning body is no longer in starvation mode)
This would explain why some people on here (including me) who are on RRARF, haven't turned the fat/muscle ratio yet. It would be interesting to know how your Urea blood work look like, at the moment..
Matt or Chief, what are your thoughts..
I am new to this web-blog but study RBTI and practice it in my office (for over a year). I am familiar with Bedoe and Waykof’s material as well as Don Krauss. I do not know how the blood urea’s will compare with the urin urea’s but high urea’s indicate a magnesium deficiency.
Chief, if you are ever near Ottawa, let me know, I will cook up some taters for you!
undertow … I was just in ottawa 2 nights ago the marriott has a badass restaurant ate 2 of their 4 courses with extra sides and still went for shish touak after lol
send me an email.. i'll let you know when I'm around next.
Shelia,
to quote you :
"I went vegan and actually cut protein all together. My readings was still high?" ..vegans bodies still consume their own muscle proteins :)
you said your levels were high?
how high ?
i think i saw a study that showed lower levels in obese rats …but it would seem that urea levels might be part of the starvaton response initially because of it's used to maintain water and sodium and blood pressure levels as well as carry away nitrogen waste from protein metabolism . It carries waste nitrogen out of the body through urine which would indicate a catabolic action if there is no food source of protein. Did you ever hear hardcore body builders fearing more nitrogen leaving than coming in thier body ? ( nitrogen balance)
Chief: you talked about the family you are trying to help lose weight..what is the their core issue food or lack of exercise? Just curious what their diet looks like.. but I can only imagine.
good luck with them!
Happy Saturday Everyone!
making bone broth this weekend.
Will there ever be a way to safely and healthily lose vanity weight? I feel doomed at this weight and doomed at the weight I'd like to be. I'm only 8-10 lbs over *my* ideal.
Will there ever be a way to safely and healthily lose vanity weight? I feel doomed at this weight and doomed at the weight I'd like to be. I'm only 8-10 lbs over *my* ideal.
Will there ever be a way to safely and healthily lose vanity weight? I feel doomed at this weight and doomed at the weight I'd like to be. I'm only 8-10 lbs over *my* ideal.
Will there ever be a way to safely and healthily lose vanity weight? I feel doomed at this weight and doomed at the weight I'd like to be. I'm only 8-10 lbs over *my* ideal.
Will there ever be a way to safely and healthily lose vanity weight? I feel doomed at this weight and doomed at the weight I'd like to be. I'm only 8-10 lbs over *my* ideal.
Will there ever be a way to safely and healthily lose vanity weight? I feel doomed at this weight and doomed at the weight I'd like to be. I'm only 8-10 lbs over *my* ideal.
Deb,
thanks for the support. they have agreed to let me post up their story or use it in a book …. if it is a success.
This one is a major undertaking, I'm going all out guest room style. :)
2 main problems: number one really stressful environment and terrible methods of handling said stress( think : super-nanny jo frost would pack up n go home) number 2 poor food (really poor food) ..eating plenty just the worst of the worst lots of macaroni hotdogs, bologne, kool-aid white-flour, soda,pre packaged food, chips, cakes cookies.
i don't feel exercise is a real factor as the body will spontaneously seek out physical activity coming out of the starvation response and lack of exercise is to be expected among those individuals. I will be suggesting certain ( minimal) physical training in a few weeks maybe a month ( the father is in the worst shape I have seen hindered mobility and difficulty breathing at rest. I am a strong believer that while a person still has evidence of a starvation response still active it is futile if not counter-productive to work out.
we will see how quick they bounce back and ill make adjustments as i go. first step is just making the gradual dietary changes to help digestion and rectify the night time junk food binges, if they don't give up half way into that it should be an amazing success.
anon,
that all depends on weather or not your being too vain.
seeing things in terms of pounds is really meaningless take pictures and put dates on them to see progress.
if your goal is too look as you once looked or it is how you are meant to look, then i would say yes if you are trying to modify your body where it is not supposed to go then insane calorie restriction on a daily basis for life (progressively decreasing) is the only way to go.
look at this comparison in the link below, showing what your muscles could potentially look like internally to understand one of the reasons why looking on the scale for an answer to what an ideal weight should be is meaningless.
http://ckcounterpunch.files.wordpress.com/2008/09/yhst-81641458817937_1980_3577584.gif?w=500&h=199
Chief O Rama:
Wow, that marbled meat to lean deal was cool!
Hey, does the dad have sleep apnea? I noticed on Jillian Michaels show that lots of the obese dads needed that machine in order to sleep/keep breathing.
Talk about Stress!
munching a spinach and bison sausage in coconut oil on a corn tortilla lunch.
:)
hmm… fat getting stored first around the abdominals makes very good sense since your entire health depends on what goes on between your neck and legs.
thinking hierarchically: metabolism would be the base (the broadest area affecting overall health), then the her-moan system, then digestion,… etc.
I was very confused as to what that was a picture of, haha. I'm assuming it's something at the same weight but different muscle/fat ratios? I can appreciate that, it's just SO frustrating to feel like I'm shooting in the dark when I see people getting results from doing "bad" things like lots of exercise & calorie restriction. I just don't want to end up raising my set point & gaining more back when I inevitably "go off plan" after losing some weight. GRRR
DEB, good guess he has not been diagnosed with sleep apnea but all the signs wakes himself up from crazy lack of breath, gasps for air in his sleep snores like you would not believe ( i have never seen worse)… naps all day long in random patterns.
truly will be an adventure….
anon,
.. I hear you on temporary results, due to everyone knowing at least someone with the temporary results, I spend twice as much time convincing people what actually works permanently because the methods seem like polar opposites. I have gone to extremes
you got it right, the fat ratio is what I was trying to illustrate there with the photo. many people only focus on the flab not realizing there is "flab" all over hidden.
if you weren't one of the Anonz i might know enough about you from following your comments to throw advice your way……pesky anonz! lol
haha well I used an "alter-ego" name last time I posted here a ways back but I forgot what name I used!!!
I came from a vegetarian background where I had restricted starches for probably a year or so (not consistently) and recently started eating meat again. Also used to overexercise, now I hardly work out at all.. if I feel like it, I do- but that's rare. I am now 130 lbs up from 115. I really thought 120ish was my setpoint but it seems that unrestricted eating + some treats + no exercise = 10 extra lbs. I'm 5'5/6 so not that short & it's not a massive amount of weight but I just feel reallllllly flabby. I also feel like I don't have a right to complain since others on here have gained 20+ lbs and were @ a higher weight to begin with. I'm 20 y.o. and don't want to screw myself up for later for a measly 10 or so lbs.! Thanks for the visual. it helps me to imagine at least 1/2 of my gain as compact muscle.
haha well I used an "alter-ego" name last time I posted here a ways back but I forgot what name I used!!!
I came from a vegetarian background where I had restricted starches for probably a year or so (not consistently) and recently started eating meat again. Also used to overexercise, now I hardly work out at all.. if I feel like it, I do- but that's rare. I am now 130 lbs up from 115. I really thought 120ish was my setpoint but it seems that unrestricted eating + some treats + no exercise = 10 extra lbs. I'm 5'5/6 so not that short & it's not a massive amount of weight but I just feel reallllllly flabby. I also feel like I don't have a right to complain since others on here have gained 20+ lbs and were @ a higher weight to begin with. I'm 20 y.o. and don't want to screw myself up for later for a measly 10 or so lbs.! Thanks for the visual. it helps me to imagine at least 1/2 of my gain as compact muscle.
if you say you are eating unrestricted and you don't feel like working out … your not there yet, still need to heal don't expect the weight to fly off.
your 20 it should go "back to normal" easily
only thing i would ask …is do you feel flabby or look flabby ? big difference.
I am guessing ANON is a girl type? When you are in your twenties/thirties that is prime baby makin' hormone time.. and IMO you are apt to have some cushioning..as nature intended.
Chief will have more to say but how about just strolling or easy bike rides for a bit around the block and some really easy yoga/ stretching to tone up a little? Just a thought.
I have to agree that with time you will get to your 'right weight'. You are certainly NOT overweight, but I think you are saying you are 'skinny/fat', kinda mushy? Oh I am so techincal ;P
deb
Maybe… I wouldn't say skinny/fat, because I am reasonably thin, but I just have added some flab that I don't like on my arms, stomach, and "saddlebags."
I'll add in some light exercise to at least make me feel better.. it's just hard to keep it "light" when I'm already doing it and think I might as well go all out!
If you are exercising already, I would lift weights. Most effective, shortest time thing to do. Anon, what are you doing now?
deb
I do upper body weights 2x a week or so when I go to the gym. I do yoga occasionally. Like I said, I was an everday hour-long gym-goer up until about 3 months ago, and since then I've dropped it to just 1-2 x per week if at all. I think I needed the mental break from it. The squat rack/lower body weights section at my gym is super intimidating but I'd love to get into that. I think yoga/some weights is the only thing that helped my 10 lb gain to not look a whole lot larger, for sure. It's just frustrating to do something when I'm not likely going to see a big body comp change. Now I eat a LOT of carbs in the form of sweet potatoes, potatoes, rice, oatmeal, and then some chicken/eggs/cheese for protein. With the amount I eat, I'm actually surprised I haven't gained more!
As to adding some regular weights/light cardio: I feel like go big or go home, you know? Lose 10 lbs or don't go to the gym/eat whatever I want to! I've definitely lost some of that mindset, because I feel way better without the restrict/"binge" cycle– BUT I was more comfortable in my body then. (Sorry everyone for jacking this comment section for such worthless rants!)
@Anon: First of all, just about everyone here is guilty of hijacking the comment section at one time or another, so no worries about that! ;)
I understand your feelings. I gained 10-15 lbs when I first stopped starving myself and overtraining. It was hard on my ego. I was still thin but wished I could get rid of the extra I'd put on. I was happy with feeling so much better mentally and physically, and being able to eat so much real food. But… that push to get thinner kept nagging at me.
Well, long story short, the more I tried to lose the weight–even being cautious of diets and not pushing myself too much–the harder it got. And guess what? Now I'm another 10 lbs heavier. So yeah, I'm really wishing I could go smack my previous self in the head and say, "Wake up! You look great. Let go of your stupid obsession with weight and size, and just enjoy life and enjoy your health."
Now, I know this is my personal experience and doesn't necessarily apply to everyone. But your comments really caught my attention because they sound so similar to feelings I've had during the last couple of years. Now I've learned the hard way that more than anything else I need to forget about the scale, forget about the calories, and just learn to enjoy my life. And my life has become a whole lot more enjoyable because of it!
PESKY ANON # 4082
you are confusing me!! lol
one minute you say you don't work out the next you are going twice a week …thats a good work out if you ask me. i don't advise going more than 3 times at 40 mins tops
if you body is responding to the training (strength gains ) then its pretty safe to say under the right conditions the fat will "magically fall off"
if you see no gains in a month … lazy chilling on the couch or bed rest would be prescribed by me.
the flabbiness you refer too in your arms while doing upper body exercise would suggest to me .. that it is not responding to the exercise :( …. and no its not lack of quantity mrs go all out!
definitely avoid jogging or running for anything else but pleasure or increased running "skills". In my opinion it is no different than dieting.
in a hunter gather sense running long periods is an act of desperation or last ditch effort for food.
( starvation response !)
if you find the squat intimidating try the leg press
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tn0w3sUMyx8
you said :
" It's just frustrating to do something when I'm not likely going to see a big body comp change."
what are you referring to doing that will not yield the results?
I am with Chief, a bit confused? Unless there are TWO Anon's being pesky?
Happy Sunday everyone!
deb the relaxed hag (well, I am working on relaxing like Liz said)
xo
FYI, I gained a total of 2 POUNDS! And, after the month of over-feeding, my appetite dropped so dramatically it's redonculous.
@ Elizabeth-
That's a really good point. I have seen it backfire on myself when I get too concerned with my diet– I think it makes me gain in the long run. And yes, I am not overweight so I need to keep it in perspective b/c my body does great things for me.
@ Chief and Deb-
Oh boy, I am being pesky. I meant that on a "good" week I'll go to the gym twice. Since I've been back at school (late august) I've gone probably 6-7 times, done 1 hr yoga 3 times, and gone on 4 runs. That's not a lot at all for me. When I've gone to the gym I've done about 20-30 mins light cardio or mild intervals (running/bike) and upper body weights. It's realllyyy sporadic, thats why it was hard to quantify. It feels like nothing when I used to go for an hour 6 days a week.
The body comp thing– It seems to me that going to the gym 2-3 times a week, only doing weights/light cardio won't yield results that going 4-5x and doing more cardio will! BUT I am probably wrong, seeing as the cals I was eating and cardio I was doing a year ago should have led to a fitter figure than I had. I think lifting heavy & consistently
may be the key for me getting physical results.
My health problem that I need to take control of is pretty bad asthma and depression. The depression thing may be what's making me feel tired/lazy all the time– I have a feeling that exercise was a temporary mood booster for me. I just know it's unsustainable and unhealthy for me to work out an hour 6 days a week.
anon, your only pesky in my eyes due to being Anonymous lol
you are wrong and the so called "cardio" is one of those temporary result things that get people to keep trying. even light "cardio" gets the finger….. the whole cardio movement is a fallacy much in the same light as the eating fat=fat movement. lots of dumb ideas grab a hold of the population.
at one time tapeworms were a fatass remedy … :)see below
http://summertomato.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/04/tapeworm-diet.jpg
I know I'm going off topic
but Matt have you heard of the guy Chris Voigt who is eating 20 potatoes a day for 60 days?
http://www.20potatoesaday.com/
Only as an experiment to show how great potatoes are, not as a long-term diet.
i seem to remember someone doing that in a study where he ate primarily potatoes for over a year.
don't remember where that is from ,,but potatoes are pretty tasty
I think I could live on mashed potatoes and gravy, maybe with some garlic salt added. Such a winning combination. whoever invented gravy…they're my hero.
Hey Chief,
I don't know if you've posted this before but what would be your ideal day in terms of food consumption? Not necessarily macronutrient ratios but actually foods like 3 eggs and a pound of taters for breakfast…stuff like that. I know it sounds like you're always experimenting but I'm kind of interested.
Thanks for contributing so much.
CHIEF-
I'm back! My internet connection has been kicking me off the past 2 days!
To answer your question about my Urea blood test.
My result was. Urea: 11.6 mmol/L(range 2.5-6.5)
I don't think I have heard about the nitrogen balance?
shelia,
yea thats something odd,
they didn't want to run more test for possible kidney problems ? or hypothyroidism ?
i would definitely not take it lightly
as far as nitrogen balance, the status of protein metabolism in the body can be ascertained through nitrogen testing. Basically they are trying to avoid more going out than going in the body as that would be an indication of a catabolic state.
CHIEF-
Well most of my doctors have been pretty fucked up (pardon my French) regarding figuring my issues out. The thing is, my TSH is low (0.20) but I am clearly hypothyroid, when looking at me. Also, my Free T3 and T4 are low but antibodies are within normal range?? Don't know if you are familiar with any of this?
I would also assume something is wrong regarding my kidneys, looking at the test because I also have problems with keeping the right water balance (retaining too much)
Only thing I really got tested for, was Diabetes but since my fasting glucose was within normal range (being on a no-carb diet at the time) that was also ruled out.
chris,
hmm ideal is hard to say , if I had complete control of what I wanted say like a dedicated assistant/chef for just my food it would be different but i can give an idea of typical…
I almost never eat " breakfast" eat most of my food at supper
yesterday I ate some raw veggies, raspberries, blue berries and sunflower seeds and some walnuts and a deer jerky throughout the morning and afternoon then i worked out around 4pm til 430 had a crushed strawberry and maple syrup drink ( native thing ) a 16 0z nutritional shake of my own design….then around 5 I proceeded to eat supper ..3 plates of roast moose probably 12-16 oz a piece and mashed potatoes and gravy (about standard margarine container of potatoes on each plate) one plate of steamed veggies a piece of butternut squash 3 slices of pizza (homemade no gluten ) small bowel of shrimp 2 cake like things made out of cornbread and ice-cream made from coconut fat
and my little brother out-ate me and he is my height but 30 pounds less ….
chris,
to give some more input to show how it varies
the day before yesterday I fasted right up til 6 pm
broke fast with a bowl of fruit (pineapple blueberries watermelon strawberries peaches)
waited about 40 mins then
ate 6 eggs 12 potatoes in the form of french fries
half of a roasted chicken and gravy
2 pieces of cornbread (big) 3 bowls of chili
fried liver and onions and a bunch of squashes
shelia,
do you test your blood glucose now ?
what about you by looking do you mean indicates you are hypothyroid ?
if TSH is low that does not mean one cant be diagnosed hypothyroid and looking at the T3 and T4 being low there is definitely something odd going on.
the antibodies in normal range is a good sign your not suffering from an autoimmune disorder though
@sheila
Having no antibodies and low TSH means the problem probably isn't with the thyroid gland itself. That's actually what my test results were about eight months ago, when I was doing low-carb. Those parameters should reliably improve on RARRF, -IF- you are in a similar situation.
@Matt
At first I thought the hair was just greased back Furhman style. Good thing though, if that were the case you would lose all credibility in my mind.
For someone who's reactive hypoglycemic, wouldn't it be best to limit glucose at 200 grams initially?
I tried experimenting with binging on starch again, and I found out that I will get hypoglycemic two hours later. So I must eat every two hours for me to feel good.
The problem for me is that I lose potassium when I'm hypoglycemic. I will also retain sodium. Because of this, I will urinate excessively when I'm hypoglycemic, due to the kidneys filtering out sodium. I nearly had wet my pants a few times because of how fast my rate of urination is sometimes. I cannot hold on my urine for a few seconds when I run to the bathroom.
For example, when I'm hypoglycemic, I don't feel the need to urinate when I'm hypoglycemic. But a few minutes later, my bladder suddenly feels full and wants to spill. It's bad for my kidneys as I urinated blood a few times because my kidneys were filtering out sodium so fast. (I guess that I suddenly exceeded the renal threshold for sodium. Once I exceeded it, my kidneys urinate excessively because it filters out sodium blazingly so fast. I don't no. I don't know whether that explains why I sometimes want to pee so badly even though the minute before I don't feel like peeing. I try not to eat any sodium in the hypoglycemic state, and it has helped.)
I have tried using fruit to rehydrate me instead, and it works. Fruit has lots of potassium which helps with the potassium loss caused by my hypoglycemia. So it reduces my urination. I must thank a user called Good Samaritan for suggesting me to avoid water.
I don't know what ratios of glucose:fructose:fat:protein that people here eat.
Let me go first. I try to aim at 250 grams of glucose. But sometimes I go for 350 grams when I run out of animal fats. I eat about 50 to 100 grams of fructose per day. Protein is quite high, above 100 grams. And the rest is fat.
CHIEF-
No I don't measure my blood glucose now (Cause: stupidity because I have the the machine for it, I just ran out of strips)
By looking at me I mean: Cold hands and feet. Low temperature. Hair loss. Dry skin. Inability to loose weight.
Yeah, I know I can't be suffering from an autoimmune disease in that area, looking at the test results but something just isn't right.
Could be something with my liver because some of the conversion from T4 to T3 happens there..
GREENSMU-
I am hoping things improve. I just feel I only had a breakthrough the first month. Now I have cold hands and feet again, my skin is dry like Saharas dessert and my body temperature is low again??
I also got a ultrasound of my thyroid which showed features of a multinodula goitre.
What did your doctor tell you?
sheila, how long have you been real eating and resting ?
how low is your low temp ?
get some strips silly ! :P
sorry to interrupt: I am the same anon from earlier. I did some HIIT (about 20 mins- 4 two-min intervals) yesterday, and I felt so WARM all day! It was amazing, I'm usually always cold.
Chief- it looks like you do more of the warrior diet some days and normal IF others? do you just go by appetite?
CHIEF-
For about 2 months now. The first month things looked bright. My hands were warm for the first time and my skin was more moist.
Now my hands and feet are freezing again. Dry skin etc..
My lowest temperature reading has been around 35.4 (95.7)
It's always higest in the morning and then drops during the day/evening.
I will get the strips Willy ;-P
It's just that my blood sugar has been my lowest concern as RRARF took care of my hypoglycemia pretty quick -I don't need a blood test to prove that because I KNOW how low blood sugar feels like (dizzyspells from hell)! That hasn't returned so that's good news for once ;-)
Pesky # 4082
I wouldn't call it warrior diet because he is specific on order and types of food, although maybe it is similar. you could just as easily say i do ramadan year round cheating once in a while. lol I call it eating normal or eating pre-contact style. mostly random berries and nuts if im hungry during the day maybe jerkies or pemican which is what i do out in the bush and has been done for thousands of years. I just let my instincts do the figuring. If im hungry I eat a little during the day, if im not i don't. This hunger is usually caused by inadequate feasting the night before.
I would say i fast daily about 2/3 of the time and once in a while ill fast for more than 24 hours. I think most IFers are scientifically corny about it, watching the clock and calorie counting and whatnot. I just don't fight my body thats how most people end up fat or metabolically messed up to begin with. Lets say i want to fast for instance more than a partial day and my body says " f*ck you! chief eat you bastard" that day around supper time then
I eat ! if it doesn't i don't and just continue on with my day.
your body knows how to regulate itself if you stop trying to be the boss. body weight management was simple pre industrial era. and I assure you it was not due to lack of food … we used to trade corn inedible things because we had plenty.
pesky anon # 4082
your heat gain will be short lived if you do not eat to compensate for the increased activity and metabolic demands.
shelia
what do you eat if you don't mind me asking ?
OK Chief, I got some questions for you…
Not too long ago, you had said something about 800 lb squats. That is some elite poundage. I think Westside barbell has a dozen or so 900 lb squatters, so you would be right up there with them. Are/were you a powerlifter?
As far as not eating / eating very little during the first part of the day, are you just not hungry? Or is this something that you kinda trained yourself to do over time?
Lastly, have you ever taken a look at your macros and saw that the bulk of your calories come from carbs or protein or is it just all over the place?
The reason for all the questions, I had done IF before and every time I tried it, I torched my thyroid. I did it for the bulk of time over a 3 year period and the thought of it just makes my brain cramp, LOL! Maybe I was doing something wrong, but my bodyfat would get down to just above 10%, then I would lose my appetite, start getting cold all the time and then the bodyfat would start to go up. At one point I started getting fat on 1500 calories a day. Just trying to figure out what went wrong.
CHIEF-
I don't mind ;-)
I have settled around 4 meals pr day. That seems to match with my appetite.
I eat mostly oats, brown rice, potatoes, veggies, beef, chicken, coconut oil, butter, milk. Once in a while, homemade sourdough (or normal)bread made with spelt flour, oats and linseeds. Tuna, lentils, beans.
ohh.. and eggs and cheese. LOL
will
about squats
I went back and looked cuz i remembered being on the modest side. to quote myself in the circadian clock post : "I deadlift 450 squat 650 and putt 1200 on a leg press machine."
i have squatted in the 7's in the gym but i rarely have anyone worth a damn for spotters around and dont like being all risky. I once got jumped by four guys and stood up with them on my back tossing the dog-pile off, I figure thats close to 800 easy as they were average build. I don't remember saying 8oo anywhere but i have no doubt i can do it although I'd look like I'm shitting a dinosaur. I have recently leg-pressed every weight in the gym plus someone sitting on the sled.(1170 in plates and a few 25's in the creases. )
never was a powerlifter just grew up doing hard work we cut our own firewood etc. first time i tried squat i did like 500 if I remember correctly and within a few sessions i quit being a pansy and just went for the 6's. keep in mind i cant even touch my ass and legs without falling over when i don't have weight, so I usually only go to about a 90 degree bend maybe a little more. I've never filmed it to look to see how far i go.
i know i could dead-lift alot more i just cant hold on to the bar even alternating grip LOL
will,
about partial day fast …
I just m not hungry i have been able to "train " other people to do it too quite easily in a week.
when i do experiments involving breakfast it takes 2 days to go back to normal because ghrelin adapts to a circadian rhythm and gets thrown off temporarily by eating in the morning. alot of the false hunger signals come from insulin malfunction once that is in order it's simple. I never ignore cravings either during the day. but i just naturally don't crave sweets or "carbs" during the day because i pack most of the eating in one window. I have seen nothing but good things in the many years and many trainees.
i just started getting geeky about everything and bering anal once i decided to return to a more traditional diet like my childhood. I remembered my grandfather would always say "no time to eat" on hunts and would stop for snacks
only. I noticed hunting with cree friends that they do the same and decided why would i go back to eating breakfast just because I'm back in "civilization" and i noticed a lot of positive effects so i started researching it and it blew my mind.
Will,
taking a look at my macros, it is definitely all over the place. I just trust my body to decide what's missing/needed and go by craving/taste
i telll everyone to avoid trying to control macro or micro..
i would say the roughly looking at it, if i had to guess, the bulk of what i eat naturally (50%) is corn beans squash 25 % meat and everything else is the rest. and i do little stints where I don't eat meat as well. and i also do a "cheat day" every once and a while and I periodically experiment like the recent (tim horton's diet ) not to be attempted! lol
CHIEF – off topic question
I wonder if you have any bright ideas for me? I developed gout recently. It seems I have a problem with my kidneys not being able to get uric acid out of my body. So, Matt suggested I try one day of fruit fasting and when I did, my gout almost disappeared. However, the next day eating protein again, it came back. So, clearly my long term solution can't be to eat fruits only. (I feel dreadful and dizzy when I eat that much sugar. ) I can't be a vegetarian cause I can't digest any dairy protein. I can't be vegan cause I feel dizzy when I try it. Also, I'm super allergic to all soy products and all beans and lentils have purines in them too so i might as well eat animal meats..ie it wouldn't solve the uric acid problem, only dairy is low enough in purines apparently. Plus, I question the long term metabolic wisdom of being vegan forever….So, I feel kind of stuck.
I can't be vegan or vegetarian, and I can't tolerate to eat animal protein. What do you think I should do? I guess I either have to live on no protein and risk damaging my metabolism. Or I have to continue to eat purines, live with the gout symptoms and risk ruining my kidneys. Also, I'm temporarily cutting our grains too cause they seem to make the gout worse as well, so I can't use grain proteins.
What would you do in my situation? I've tried drinking cat's claw, nettle, and pau d'arco teas but they don't seem to help.
@Chief, here was the post about the squats…
"This summer I decided to avoid the gym all together to prove to those around me it's not calorie in and calorie out.. 7000 calories a day and not even a bit of weight gain in 4 months. I will admit it was not sedentary but it was far from 800 lbs. squats."
500-600 lbs in the squat is still impressive. The squat has been one of my banes…I'm not a very big guy and once I start upping the weight, here comes a strained back, sore knee, whatever. I just started working out again a few weeks ago and I'm sticking with higher reps on the squat (8-20) to maybe avoid those past problems.
Matt,
What do you say about Chief's skipping breakfast deal? I believe in one of your posts about serotonin and circadian rhythms you said it was important to eat breakfast within an hour of waking. But how can one argue with Chief's results?
I'm not particularly hungry in the morning any more, but I eat because I think I should. But maybe I shouldn't – maybe I should wait until I get hungry. Seems kind of self-evident when I say it that way. Huh.
So Chief, you don't fast entirely during the day…just limit it to small snacks (most of the time…I remember you saying that you also do fasts, so the complete fasts aren't as often?)
As far as your macros, do you find that you naturally tend to separate the fats and starches? Since I'm a typical American "mutt" with no connection to my ancestry or environment, just trying to see what someone that is "in tuned" leans towards.
Sorry for the oddball Q's and thanks for the responses.
On skipping breakfast/IF/etc: I experimented with this a couple times. The first time was low-carb and it completely bombed (obviously). I tried it again recently without any carb restriction and with the goal of fulfilling all of my nutrition needs in the evening (as opposed to trying to restrict calories). It felt fine at first, but I found myself getting hungrier and hungrier during the fasting period, and but the 8th day I began craving junk food like crazy. I was eating more and more at night, but kept getting more and more hungry during the day!
I held out a couple more days and it kept getting worse, even when I widened my eating window to include the early afternoon. I also began having angry outbursts. Cravings for crap and mood swings are my telltale signs that something is not working for me. So I listened and started eating breakfast and lunch again. Mood swings were gone instantly, but it took doing full RRARF to get the cravings to stop.
So, anyway, that's my IF story. I don't think it works for me. But I guess don't knock it till you've tried it, right?
hmm.. I have dabbled in IF as I think it helps me be less neurotic about food- but sometimes hunger gets me because I probably don't eat enough during the evening time period. I really would love for that to be my lifestyle, because it's literally the only way that I feel non-stressed about what I'm eating/not eating. But obviously feeling hungry starts to get stressful past a certain point. I also feel like my body comp might be better even if I'm eating the same amount of food. At least, that's what I've heard from people doing IF– but who knows, they could be overestimating their intake.
Regarding healing, trying to work out the inner minutia of the body of a particular situation is an inevitable occurence.
But often, I have seen that this can be detrimental to the healing process.
Time and again I have seen that it becomes an all-consuming endeavour, swallowing up valuable energy, and leading to a pinballing from one possibility to another, tangling together a mess of thoughts.
Maximising energy availabilty in healing is of great importance.
Time spent in the outdoors, in the sunlight and fresh air in nature, resting completely allowing thoughts to untangle, to just come and go like clouds passing in the sky, eating nutritious wholesome food.
The body HAS the innate ability to heal and recuperate.
for what its worth.
will,
i fast 2 out every three days as an estimate with nothing more than water. Perhaps ill do 6 days fasting and 2 days with snacks and always eat supper. sometimes its 1 day fast 2 days snacks and then 4 days fasting. Again I let nature take it's course. Probably once or twice a month I fast for 36 hours or so it seems like i choose it consciously but i always give in and eat when i'm hungry so maybe it's subconscious due to never getting hungry. Its usually during traveling or hiking.
Every so often maybe once a season I go a few days all out fasting ( body temp will usually be affect after 3 days) . Once a year i do a maple fast.
key in my opinion is to really go all out on the feast times it makes all the difference. If i don't eat enough at supper i get hungry in the morning. This happens when i eat supper at conservative people's houses and there is not enough food made ( they say I'm crazy or abnormal) :) Not to sound culturally biased but native people tend to do the thanksgiving style "all out for supper" all the time and feel guilty if it all gets eaten due to it being a sign of not meeting demands. This obviously makes daily fasting easier.
the other half is WHAT you eat for supper this is also very key. third thing is what you do all day , if I chop wood or some other intensive work i become hungry and eat during the day.
Pesky anon,
same calories with fating does help body comp.
and in most people i have worked with it makes them less neurotic about food.
will
about the 800 quote lol yea didn't mean to make it look like i was incredible hulk on the daily.
I just was using that to illustrate something intense as i figured 800 would be quite intense
and I tend to throw fat in with most of the things i cook , be it beans or gravy on top of cornbread I cant think of a recipe where fat is separated on purpose or a time when i craved fat for the sake of fat.
Matt has said that after RRARF, one should automatically experience a reduction in calories as the body doesn't see a need for all those calories anymore. But maybe this isn't so…I experienced the same thing doing IF but 10x. My decreased hunger was followed by being cold, and getting fatter on 1500 calories. Not sure what to make of it.
Thanks for the replies Chief…I'm going to evaluate whether I can give IF another go or not. Maybe it's not for every person, although it has worked well for Martin Berkhan from LeanGains and for the oldest man in the world, 114 y.o. Walter Breuning…
http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2009-09-24-oldest-man-diet_N.htm
…although he eats breakfast and lunch and always skips dinner.
There's got to be something to it and way to do it where I don't screw it up, LOL!
The Real Will-
I seem to have the same hunger/calorie need, as when I started RRARF.
During a week of sickness with decreased hunger and therefor decreased caloric intake, was also followed by being cold and new fat gain.
Only thing that seem to keep temperature up, is crazy calorie load but that also means crazy fat gain!
Elizabeth, that IF stuff is a funny thing. It seems like some folks take to it like a fish to water, and others, it just bodyslams them. Good thing for you that it made you hungrier, because if you would have lost your appetite…
When I first tried IF, there was a guy that I worked with that wanted to try it too, but he had a similar experience to you. He wouldn't eat all day but as soon as he got in the door from work, he had an uncontrollable hunger where he would just start packing away the junk food. Maybe it's something that needs to be adapted to slowly…change breakfast from a meal to a snack…then skip breakfast, etc.
Also, Martin Berkhan has mentioned that his recommended feeding window for women is 2 hours longer than for men (I believe it was10 hours and 8 hours, respectively). SO maybe IF is tougher for women for some reason. Don't know.
lisa E,
sorry i posted a response earlier it did not post for some reason,
I would suggest hemp protein as it is complete (meat like) all the essentials plus non essentials and even superior in some respects to meat. I use it I have seen excellent results in those I have recommended it to.
you might wanna try quinoa as it is not technically a full fledged grain and is pretty high in protein as well.
I would not think that fruit fasting would be a permanent solution but a good start. fructose metabolizes much in the same way alcohol does and alcohol consumption is associated with gout.
I have seen fasting kick a ton of ailments in the ass.
try that but make sure you eat like a mad woman.
maybe try fasting and fruit fasting in small trials and try different protein sources one at a time.
I would think gout is strongly linked to nutrient deficiencies particularly vitamins.
I am working on some natural foods, teas and snacks to make available to the world that I feel kick everything in the ass! including temp raises in days, just finished last round of testing though so stay tuned.
You seem pretty nutritionally competent Sheila, so you have probably already tried this, but have you tried keeping your fats and starches separate? It's one of those bodybuilding things, so I'm thinking that you are already familiar with it. I don't think Matt is crazy about it, but it might be a way to keep the calories high without restricting any macronutrient and without gaining excess bodyfat.
sheila anytime high calorie = fat gain body is not working properly :(
Will
I don't think it is genetic, the ability to fast I have "trained " many without problems. and there are tons of muslims in the worlds that fast every year they are composed of many different races and they seems to not be overrun with as many diseases as the rest of the population ( I am not muslim and not trying to promote any religion) At least I have never seen a morbidly obese among them thats for sure.
I did it in my early teens without problem but My accidental attempts in my fat days yielded the same results you and elizabeth described. I think a lot of people think because all seems to be going well that their bodies are tip top shape … when in reality there are three letters different between survive and thrive for a reason … they are not the same at all.
The real will-
Yes, I do know about that and I have also done that (among other things) in my crazy world of bodybuilding and dieting in general. I can only look at it this way: It didn't do anything good for my health. It probably worked somehow in getting leaner maybe but long term is a different story, as we all know..
A thing I am doing is trying to minimize the fat and just eat more carbs.
CHIEF-
You can say that again! My body is all over the place. LOL!
I believe I am eating right and definitely staying away from any form of exercise. Nothing is happening though :-(
Hey thanks CHIEF!
Hemp Protein sounds like a good idea. However this would make me vegan. Is that truly OK for the metabolism? Perhaps I could be vegan 6 days a week and then eat real meat once a week? Might that be enough to protect the body temperature?
Also, it seems like it's quite a refined type of food if it's only available as a powder? But I guess beggars can't be choosers….lol….
It also seems to have plenty of Omega 6 in it which might be a problem for me with all my inflammation issues.
Also, what can I do about all my nutrient deficiencies? It's kind of a nightmare with all these food allergies and things I can't digest…..
"My body is all over the place……Nothing is happening though :-("
Hi Sheila,
if I may comment, and if it's any consolation, one can also say your body is where it needs to be at present.
Not to say situation wont, or cannot change, but right now, things are happening in accordance with its processes of stasis.
Often, its just that what we perceive it should be doing, and what it is doing, is not one and the same.
Lisa E ,
omega six in hemp is not an issue due to it having alot of omega 3's
making things into powder is a minimal refinement that has been practiced in many culture that were found to not have metabolic syndrome.
I don't feel the same can be said for something like white flour where things have been stripped from it in the process or instant foods with chemicals added.
the whole point of teeth is to crush things down.. so i doubt taking something like hemp and grinding it before eating is even remotely harmful anymore than chewing the seeds all day.
as far as nutritional probs …. stay tuned.
are you on the west or east coast ?
Lisa E, I know that someone once asked Matt about not tolerating meat and doing better without it and he had recommended eating mostly vegan with a "meat feast" once a week or so. DOn't know if this applies to you or even if I remember 100% correctly, LOL, but maybe Matt can fill in the blanks for you. Good luck!
Lisa, one more thing about nutrient deficiencies. DOn't pay attention to RDA's etc. My son, who has a boatload of health problems, is working with a pediatric developmental neurologist (I think :-)…and his bloodwork showed that he had a low zinc to copper ratio. His doc tried getting zinc into him every which way but my son couldn't tolerate any of it. Finally, I told my wife that we should try the zinc cream once a week (just a dab on the finger tip) just to get him used to it. Guess what? On his last bloodwork, his zinc to copper ratio was normal…from one dab on a fingertip, once a week. Everyone's different!
Wow, thanks so much all for your help, support and encouragement! Really appreciate it! I will go for the hemp seeds and do a meat feast once a week so long as I feel remotely OK on the hemp seeds. I tend to get dizzy and weird when I'm all vegan.
Will keep you all posted!
Chief, I think Riles mentioned the First Nations and maple fasting months back. Can you elaborate more. Is it just maple syrup only, how much per day and how long? Springtime when the syrup is flowing?
Undertow,
maple syrup is part of a "festival".
"fasting" on it would be done during the day and eating at night. drinking as you crave it or your hunger tells you. some do an all out fast with just syrup and water a few days (i do) leading up to the festival. the festivals has all sorts of things like music and food and things.
it is also used as medicine at other times of the year because our view of medicine and food are inter-related. say for certain aliments. For instance there is a strawberry festival later in the spring early summer where a crushed strawberries and maple syrup based drink is consumed. The strawberry is viewed as the primary berry as it comes first in spring and has many benefits one of them being scurvy prevention and cleaning out the system.
the longest I have every done a maple fast was ten days to remedy a situation. normally only a few days or even a day during the festival.
i would say around a few table spoons per drink and maybe ten drinks in a day on average. some people do pure maple syrup only some do weak (not super boiled down) maple water.
I would caution anyone considering it, Be aware it can be bad if you are not in the best of health and depending on your unique situation. if you do not have an adviser proceed with caution and watch over your self (be mindful). I have never heard of any body doing damage to themselves but getting their own medical advice would be good.
as far as people finding a fast difficult the glucose makes it pretty easy to tolerate but still gives one some of the benefits of a fast.
Lisa E ,
make sure it is not whole seeds hemp has a tough shell and you wont get much out of the whole seeds unless you can grind em down at home.
like will said your skin can absorb alot of things thats why a shower feels refreshing you rehydrate yourself like 5 -10 glasses each time.
J.R-
Thanks for your comment. Your right on the money. This is what I keep telling myself. I can't expect anything to happen overnight. It's just hard when you have had progress and then fall behind again (at least that's how it feels) I guess my biggest fear is that I have messed up my body for good, this time. Then I think; I'm only 28, it can't be too late. Like you said, the body doesn't always "work" like we would want. Many good things can be happening as we speak. Just because we can't feel or see them, doesn't mean it's not in progress. Thanks ;-)
Here's a bizarre IFish experience. On Sunday I did my big weekly cookoff. I had had a fairly substantial brakfast at 9:00 a.m. I went to the store and then started cooking about 1:00 p.m as per the 180 Kitchen recommendation–I made about a dozen dishes at once. All my burners were full and my over racks were stacked to the max. My husband came in about 3:00 and offered to make me a sandwich but I wasn't hungry. I didn't eat dinner until 7:30. I had a few bites of things to taste but other than that I easily went all day without even feeling a little hungry. This is very unusual for me. I wonder if it wasn't the adrenaline from doing the big cook off? I mean, I'm not really used to that kind of thing. It required unusual concentration to keep so many dishes going at once.
The crazy thing is the next day, yesterday I was hungry all day. I ate more than usual throughout the day and was hungry more frequently than usual.
@Jenny,
I have had experiences where I'm hungry all day and just eat a lot. Sometimes I have experiences where I'm not hungry for several hours. I haven't had any true IF without hunger though… like at least 16 hours. I think it's best to just go with it. Chief talks about training people into IF but screwing it himself when he tried in his fat days. Maybe Chief should write a book.
jenny, it's not odd at all
that's what i call the calorie set point, the phenomenon is part of the weight set point that makes your body make up for it from one day to another for missing calories so being really hungry the next day is quite normal.
as far as not eating all day like that, when i was trying (ineffectively) to run many businesses I routinely " forgot" to eat and only when i stopped the hustle and bustle for the day would an intense hunger come to me. something is obviously blunting the hunger i suspect norepinephrine in the case of heavy concentration tasks but I don't think that is a good thing on the day to day especially yo yo-ing with epinephrine fight or flight style unless you feel good overall because a little stress can be good.
I usually felt sick-ish right before eating living this way. I do know some people losing hunger during certain task, perhaps it's the momma bear in you making you focus on your mother duties. :)
now a days, I skip all day without all the stress and running around and it is a totally different thing being relaxed in terms fasting and feasting. No more feeling ill and odd as it is I actually do way more in terms of productivity and eat way more as well.
Aaron F,
I did not consciously try to fast in my fat days, just by the nature of my lifestyle in my fat days I skipped food. I/It was a complete disaster.
Because of "expert" advice and from my experience with my stressed out fatass lifestyle, feeling ill and dizzy and all kinds of stuff while skipping meals I was actually afraid to fast. I thought the old folks were just really tough bastards and it was bad to skip In my first attempt to get rid of the fat I was eating like 6 7 times a day as per recommendation.
one of the things I actually do as part of my fat GAIN protocol, when i want to test fat loss, is to increase meal frequency. :)
In the same breath I still agree with matt those that skip breakfast and grab a cookie on the way to work are better off eating a big protein based breakfast.
eating 3 solid meals is better than one good one and one bad one.
The book is being edited by the publisher as we speak…. :)
Hey Matt,
Been a while- don't hang out on these parts much sicne a morstly full tiem jobby job has come into my life.
I noticed your comment above about wishing you had RRARFed for serious more and avoided the low fat and high fruit experimenting. Is that the current 180 take on RRARF- stick with it as originally described, and don't work too hard on taking a low-fat approach even for muscle building?
Also, my dog got sick recently, possibly exacerbated by a recent round of vaccines- she had real bad allergies and was rubbing eyes to the point of bleeding, poor lady. I brought her to a homeopathic vet and have been doing a lot of reading about homeopathy recently. The Law of Similars echoes something you've written about, Matt- that which exacerbates often heals. I wonder about your take on that.
(Peaka dog is doing much better after a couple of doses of a homeopathic remedy, by the way. Thanks the good lord.)
Cool 180ers- glad you're still in the trenches hashing all this out. Thanks y'all.
Hey Chief,
Put me down for a copy of that book. I'd like to be on your waiting list, if you're making one. You should have my email already since I emailed you a bunch of questions. Thanks for sharing all the info.
CHIEF:
Hemp seeds = yummy
However, my heart is racing and I feel dizzy. Just like I usually feel when I try to go vegan or fast. Not sure if it's a good idea for me to be vegan….not sure what my other options are….I feel super hungry, seeds don't seem to be very filling. It said to eat 3 tablespoons per day of the seeds, but I probably had 6 tablespoons for breakfast and I'm super hungry now. It's a tricky situation for sure….
AaronF,
I believe knowledge should shared, your welcome.
Thats why I am technically giving it away free as I am donating all proceeds.
I was thinking bout making a waiting list, maybe I should.
Lisa,
give it some time the body does not repair itself in hours lol , I would suggest mixing it with other foods because I know if I ate only six tablespoons as a meal i would be quite hungry. :) try mixing animal fats or coconut fats with something starchy if you are trying to avoid the protein in meats. It's my understanding that it is the meat and not the fat that is an issue with gout. By doing this, it will help slow digestion and if it works well , help with the dizziness.
Most vegans eat low fat and low calorie and i suspect that is at play with the ill feeling.
you might also try eating alot of fresh veggies along with the hemp to slow digestion.
Lisa E:
This is what you do for breakfast seed style:
take about 1/4 cup chia seeds, one cup almond milk (or coconut milk, coconut water or raw cream if you are not dairy adverse, kefir is great too), mix in hemp seeds ( not the powder, it is not as tasty) 1/4 cup, add any fruit you like, berries are super tasty, maybe a bit of coconut cream, some sliced almonds, whatever floats your boat. Stir it really well, keep stirring, adding liquid if the chia sucks it all up.. in about five minutes or so you will have a nice thick chia pudding and it will fill you up really nicely. I like a bit of cinnamon on mine. Feel free to improvise on this, you can make it chocolate with some cacao powder/carob powder too.
Former raw foodists ARE good for some stuff:)
@Sheila
I don't know maybe your different, but in my case digestion was really bad in addition to the low thyroid.
My doctor didn't have any opinion about my thyroid levels, I had to ask just to get tested. My symptoms went away in about 2-3 months and body temps got better so I didn't seek an endocrinologist.
How many calories do you consume daily? I only feel better after a certain threshold of maybe 3500-4000 calories has been reached. 3000 calories for a week isn't the same as 4000 in a day for me.
Oh cool! Thanks again. I'm still struggling to get through this day but I'm determined to do it. It's the only way to tell if my gout will improve tomorrow. I wish so badly that I could tolerate any kind of dairy…..No such luck yet though….
So, I guess I could eat more than the few tablespoons then. Great recipe Debbie!
Good Lisa! Yes, I can down about 1/2 cup of chia seeds a day.. making pudding type stuff.. even my daughter likes it!
If you like nut butter I have a few ideas for that too.
You can add chia to anything, esp. smoothies it makes them nice and thick too.
xo
deb
LISA, DEB,
chia seed are some wonderful stuff, sorry i neglected to mentioned them. I seem to remember putting it in the message but it must have been the deleted one ..lol
DEB, lady haga- ex raw vegans have had a lot to bring to the table here on 180 … :) you are good for something no doubt great input for the smoothie
LISA E,
try to get a lot of sun as well. kicks things in the ass like laughter and fasting does :)
blueberries an cranberries are pretty compact anti oxidants as well. Since gout is found to be among those with metabolic syndrome I feel the blueberries can help a lot with gout issues.
I have not seen anyone having issues digesting them as well.
Blueberries and cranberries, are they not a problem being high in fructose, digesting like alcohol?
I haven't had any seeds in three years so this hemp seed thing is definitely an experiment. So far I seem to be accepting them though. Still feel like a wreck, dizzy and fatigues, ringing ears. I feel like I'm fasting. So strange how powerful regular meat is for me. Without it I feel as if I am not eating at all, even though I'm eating huge amounts of rice and veggies and fruits with my seeds. It's an all day project to eat this much….lol….
Thanks Chief for the pat on the back as it were :)
I love soaked then dehydrated buckwheat too.. add it to the mix for some crunch.
Funny about meat.. I actually am feeling better eating less of it. Liking my fishies though.
Dinner tonight is a big ass salad, baby arugula, pasilla pepper, some walnuts,green cabbage,heirloom tomatos from my garden, celery, cuke, green apple, sliced almonds, lemon, celtic salt and a dribble of olive oil
Good stuff!
xo
deb
Lisa, Blueberries, cranberries, strawberries etc are actually pretty low in fructose. Green apples are too.
Berries are berry berry good!
deb aka HaGa
craberries are pretty low in fructose like .21 g per 100 :) watch out for added sugar on the dried versions or the ocean spray junk juice with added sugar.
and if you wanna dodge the fructose all together opt for blueberry root tea to get some of the benefits of blueberries. the fructose in blueberries is less than its glucose content 8 grams of fructose per 100 grams if my memory serves me correctly. The fiber in fruit helps it digest slower,giving your body a chance to process it.
thats why i suggested them eating a handful at a time is not going to amount to much of a fructose load :)
EAT ! keep us posted :)
Lisa E, What about bone broths and gelatin. Gelatin is supposed to be pro-thyroid and has lots of amino acids. Not sure if this is gout friendly, just throwing it out there. Gelatin has lots of good protein.
Lisa E .
forgot to mention..( cant believe it slipped my mind very important ) throw some strawberries in the mix !
not 100 % sure of the fructose content of the top of my head but it is definitely pretty low probably similar to blueberries. i would not be alarmed Cranberries and strawberries are diuretics and will help stimulate urination ( this will help ) strawberries are really good for the kidneys and as kidneys handle urea its pretty vital to keep them running good for gout purposes. The idea should not be to avoid protein life long but to stimulate your body to get rid of the waste properly… right ?? you with me ? … otherwise it is more restriction and we know where that can lead. :)
girl! you need to "love you some" strawberries ! lol
I am almost certain this gout problem is fully reversible too so do not fear. I sometimes have trouble explaining to medicine people what these different "new diseases" are but they always seem to understand after deep explanation. responding like : "oh you mean little rocks in the kidney …eat this" lol I have seen some amazing cures from food alone, don't fret.
Undertow has a good idea in bone broths being really good for you but I would avoid the bone broths for now as i would think it would be like similar to organ meats and be very concentrated versions of " animal " .
Almost every physical disorder comes from improper health care. Getting rid of belly fat is one reason that people are getting imbalance. It's good that there are sites like this that gives health information and possible solution.
Aren't hemp and chia seeds both really high in unsaturated fats, particularly PUFA's? People can do what they want, and everybody's experience is different and varied, but strictly avoiding foods high in PUFA's is the single best thing I have ever done for my health. I believe Ray Peat is right about one thing: unsaturated fats are toxic to the metabolism.
Moreover, one does not have to turn to Ray Peat for that view, which is often portrayed as extreme and misinformed. The medical literature is full implicit concessions to Ray Peat's thesis. I say implicit because there is research that backs up his point but one has to be willing to read between the lines to recognize this –and the researchers, working within the paradigm that PUFA's are needed for human health, particularly Omega 6 and Omega 3, never connect the dots. To illustrate my point about the implicit concessions, here is an abstract to a paper I found after a brief Pubmed search:
http://www.fasebj.org/cgi/content/abstract/13/15/2138
DML,
not sure i believe all the hype just yet.
If omega three was so toxic the natives nations of the northwest (north america) who eat insane amounts of salmon would be dropping like flies.
Chia seeds have been consumed for thousands of years, I doubt they are as problematic as industrially created corn oil which I avoid but at the same time I love my corn :)
Actually Chia seed is super high in Omega three, hemp has both at a 4-1 ratio so not the best but a damn good seed IMHO.
Don't be hatin' on my chia.
maybe those eating loads of salmon eat the thyroid. I don't see how they can eat so little carbs, tons of fat mostly polyunsaturated and have very fast metabolisms (so i read). They eat loads of fat soluble vitamins and minerals and so on but that doesn't seem like enough to give them such fast metabolisms.
tarpel,
I can assure you spending months among them no thyroid eating supplementation and it's not part of any recipe.
I don't understand why you specified polyunsaturated in your statement?
Please explain how it effects metabolism differently than other fats.
i've read that some inuit eat salmon by boiling it and drinking the liquid. if the thyroid is not removed then maybe the hormones pass into the liquid. or maybe the heat destroys them i don't know. i've often eaten fish heads and probably the thyroid without realising, its only a little brown thing.
polyunsaturated fats http://raypeat.com/articles/articles/unsaturatedfats.shtml
one of the many articles about it there. makes sense to me
Sheila – Low T4 and low T3 with a low TSH is indicative of hypopituitarism. I would push to get further investigated for that: http://www.stopthethyroidmadness.com/hypopituitary-faq/
CHIEF:
Good news and bad news:
It seems I go into some kind of hypoglycemic state when I try to go vegan. I feel like a wreck. Super bad mood swings (want to scream and/or cry at the same time, it can't be fun to be my boyfriend today…lol), I also feel dizzy and look pale and my breathing gets worse.
On the plus side though I could bend all my fingers almost all the way this morning, just as I could after the fruit fast.
But I can't handle feeling this bad overall. I can't function. Not at all sure what to do next? It's a tricky situation….
send me an email we can go into detail without cluttering up the comment section and try to kick this thing in the ass :)
Tarpel,
I was referring to Gitxsan, Haida etc not inuits as they have a very different culture and fairly different lineage.
Iv had a sore as hell throat (blisters) and fever last few days, fevers gone now but i havent been able to eat barely anything at all.
I lost over half a stone in 2 days and today i made some soup and was real hungry so i ate three bowls and then i got a headache.
Kind of wondering if i ate too much in one go after not eating, i dont want to screw myself over in anyway.
I'd becoming used to eating larger amounts before this unintentional starvation because of the throat pain.
Should i keep eating a plenty or ease myself back into eating…
Anybody with similiar experience of headache after eating after starving?
Fionn,
It is al good idea to make up for the lost calories and eat as much as your body asks for .
the headaches are most likely due to too much sodium in the soup.
Maybe you people already know this, but 11b-HSD1 activity is increased on a low carb diet…
"In obese men, an HF-LC diet increased whole-body regeneration of cortisol by 11B-HSD1 and reduced the rate of inactivation of cortisol by 5A- and 5B-reductases"
http://jcem.endojournals.org/cgi/content/full/92/11/4480
So, same as with low calorie diet. Of course, you already know that a low carb diet increases cortisol, epinephrine (adrenaline) and norepinephrine.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11402256
Of course, that's the whole idea, to loose weight catecholamines have to go up, question is if one wants to do it 24/7 and eventually pay the consequences (as Matt has excellently expressed in these clips) if done long term.
Fiona-
You could be feeling "reactive hypoglycemia", that the blood sugar goes too low after a meal. Headache is one of the many symptoms. Coming from a very low carb diet I just stuck with it eating as many carbs as I could squeeze down. It took 2 months before it turned around for real, and that's basically where I am now.
Cool thanks for answering guys. I think ill go with what you suggested Michel, i just had to ask cos i was worried at the time.
Fionn and michel
it is true that with headaches it would be very hard to nail down what causes them as they are prevalent in many diverse situations, so i don't think we can be sure one way or the other given limited information on fionn's case.
depending on what kind of soup was eaten the situation might not be able to be explained by reactive hypoglycemia.
and if fionn said a sore throat was a problem I have to assume it was not a bulky soup. Say it was squash soup or veggie soup or even chicken broth, I doubt it had much effect on insulin response.
also the point on sodium being an issue can probably easily be rectified by more potassium intake.
It was a carrot soup by the way with i think about three potatoes in it.
I made it myself and added sea salt and some pepper to the bowl/s but no more than i usually would.
Fionn,
it is not the idea that the salt is an overload compared to previous intake but more of a lack of potassium/sodium balance and it is regardless of it being sea salt or not it would present the same issue.
if you did not eat for a few days i would say it is possible due to the fact that dehydration can cause this imbalance and dehydration is common during sickness.
there are 3 types of dehydration one is a lack of water and the second is a lack of electrolytes ( calcium, chloride, magnesium, potassium, and sodium ) and the third is when you have a problem with both and this is the most common.
you could always test your blood sugar
GREENSMU-
I have actually no idea how many calories i am consuming at the moment but my guess would be anything between 2000- 3000 calories. I would say I probably feel better on higher calories (better bowel movements and general energy) but my metabolism is still not healed so I am trying to not go overboard like I did the first month.
LYNN-
I just read about that recently! My last doctor visit also pointed out, it might be a pituitary problem. If that is the case, it would explain why my hormones is still out of whack.
Does anyone know if the body is able to heal a pituitary issue, on its own?
Sheila,
you have read the book " the brain that changes itself"
i think you know the answer to your question :)
CHIEF-
Ha ha ha… Damn your fast!-Insert DOHHH saying Homer here-
;-D
Sometimes Im quite ..slow ……and sensual :)
Don't go to fast,
don't go to slow,
You've got to let your body flow
I like 'em attentive
and I like 'em in control.
good song for massages sheila ;)
Massages?? .. I mean.. Yes, of course! ;-)
Chief-
Yeah, you're right, it could be any number of causes. Potassium/sodium imbalance is probably also very common in the beginning when shifting diet.
Yeah that definetely might have been it actually Chief, because i was having trouble drinking enough water aswell because of my throat and was most likely pretty dehydrated overall.
I can eat fine again now with no negative reactions so it wasn't anything lasting. Thanks guys
Glad to hear that Fionn ! and your welcome
Matt,
Are you coming to the WAPF conference? Your fans want to see you!
The NYC paleo peeps will be there, with their VFF on.
G
Matt, you might not want to mention this guy's book. Apparently he's involved in a lawsuit with the FTC over claims for his Cortislim product.
http://consumeraffairs.com/news04/2005/ftc_cortislim.html
Doesn't prove he's wrong, but does make his book a little questionable. Anyone remember Herman Taller?