While many of you read in many of my eBooks including Diet Recovery about how to RAISE YOUR METABOLISM,?where I bark about the dangers of excess fructose consumption, I’ve had no choice lately but to file the general idea away into the minutiae department. I’m glad too. One of my primary objectives is to provide health information that involves increasing dietary freedoms and decreasing dietary restrictions. Well, I can’t say for sure 100%, but it appears that one of the major dietary restrictions I’ve been imposing on people over the years has just bitten the dust.
It just seems like a shame to keep people away from what seems to me to be’some of the most nutritious, enjoyable, and biologically appropriate foods on earth for a human -?like delicious ripe fruits, the ultimate fast food.
I think the negatives of fructose consumption can be attributed almost entirely to a handful of factors that have nothing to do with fructose. Such as…
1) In a low metabolic state, you convert more of the fructose you eat to fat. The body doesn’t want glucose hanging out stimulating the metabolism if it can help it. So it packages it into fat at a higher rate for storage – this also increases the amount of triglyceride in the blood which interferes with insulin’s function (insulin resistance). But this isn’t fructose’s fault. In a high metabolic state this simply could not be a significant problem, as you would manufacture less fat in the liver and burn those fatty acids at such a high rate they would not accumulate in the blood.
2) On?a high-PUFA diet, eating lots of fructose seems to cause fatty liver – just like consuming excess alcohol does. But on a diet low in PUFA with and emphasis on saturated fats with ample nutrients (such as plenty of choline as Chris Masterjohn wrote about a few months ago), fructose and potentially alcohol too can be consumed in much larger quantities without causing this adverse effect. Many believe that metabolic syndrome starts with hepatic insulin resistance caused by fat accumulation in the liver, but high-PUFA intakes and low-nutrient intakes are more likely to be the causative factors, not poor fructose found in fresh fruit.
3) When performing exercise and using up a lot of liver and muscle glycogen, the sugars found in fruit and in the sucrose in molasses are the optimal carbohydrates for refueling this lost glycogen. I don’t think there’s anything better for exercise performance and recovery than sugars – something my recent switch from mostly starches to mostly sugars has proven to me in short order.
This is just a short list of things that make fructose potentially problematic when it otherwise shouldn’t be. Others could include high stress levels, lack of sleep, low-carbohydrate intake, and other factors that impair our ability to?manage fructose properly.
And keep in mind too, with things like uric acid (Richard Johnson, one of the world’s leading anti-fructose crusaders vilifies fructose almost solely because?of its impact on uric acid levels), a comparison of fructose in fruit and fructose in refined sugar have shown THE EXACT OPPOSITE EFFECT on uric acid levels.?Refining is always going to be a much bigger problem than any type of?carbohydrate molecule in and of itself.
Note, it is probably best when starting out in a low metabolic state and attempting to overfeed with little to no exercise as part of the?180 RRARF Program,’to still generally favor starches over simple sugars because the body cannot convert starch to fat nearly as?efficiently. However, a practice such as what I’ll be discussing in a few weeks after I’ve built up a little more confidence about it – eating lots of fruit?first thing in the morning all by itself, may still be a great tool during recovery. In the morning the body is most receptive to storing carbohydrate and least likely to convert it to fat in the liver. So potentially RRARF could be even better with this practice thrown in with it. It remains to be seen.
Anyway, that’s the quick and dirty on why molasses, a food high in sucrose, is probably a wonderful item to?include in your diet – particularly if it’s matched up well with’some glucose-burning exercise (high intensity), and?you are still’taking strides towards?protecting your metabolism such as avoiding extreme diets, calorie restriction, too much stress, sleep deprivation, and so forth.
Although I?would’still generally prefer whole, fresh fruit as a sugar source from a comprehensive health perspective,?there is actually something quite poetic about molasses.? Many of us have incurred massive nutrient debts over our lifetime and the lifetimes that have come before it due to the widespread consumption of massive amounts of refined sugar without the?vital nutrients that come packaged with it for its proper?utilization.?Blackstrap molasses however is the perfect antidote to that, concentrating the nutrients but not the sugars – providing a surplus of nutrients needed to metabolize sugar and ounce-for-ounce more?minerals than perhaps any other food.
The bottle shown in the following videos for example, if the label is accurate, contains 6 days worth of magnesium in only a half day’s worth of calories. Calcium levels are off the charts. It is rich in potassium and many B vitamins as well. In the comments of the last post a couple of people mentioned feeling better after adding?molasses into their diets including one fine lad who had a bunch of?hair sprout on the top of his head where it had thinned previously. Pretty cool stuff. That was “Rocket” I believe. Feel free to refer to molasses as “Rocket Sauce” if you need to.
Anyway, here are a couple ways you can use molasses. Make sure it is blackstrap, the kind full of minerals and thicker’n tar. If you have limited time and can only watch one video make it the 2nd one. I was in a pretty good mood today. The first was filmed almost two months ago, and is a breakfast that I would now call “low-carb.”
100 Comments
terpol
on March 11, 2011 at 8:00 pm
i have never tried this stuff but it looks pretty good, loads of pottasium too.
I like to make myself a nice iced molasses whenever I get a bit of a sweet tooth. I dissolve about a tbsp or two of molasses in a bit of boiling water and then fill the rest of the glass up with milk and finish with some ice cubes. Delicious!
I buy this brand specifically because it has the highest mag and calcium content and the lowest iron content of any molasses label I've checked. Although, hard to put much stock into the accuracy of a label.
why are u knowcking the iron? this is the best source of iron that is the most easiely assimilated and we need good iron. An organic brand of mo is better. And we shouldnt be drinking cow’s milk but rather goat milk. Cows er calves have several more stomacks than we do and therefore it is easy for them to digest it. For humans and cats and dogs goat milk is closer to the milk for one -stomached mammals and therefore causes less mucus formation.
LOL, you crazy Mo Fo Mattie.. Hope your doggy liked that. I add Molasses to all the food I cook now to re mineralize it. Just half a teaspoon , no need to go mad but yes as you reminaralize, your food intake starts to go down too… Anyway I like to do the milk thing after dinner, heating up the milk (gasp) and adding spices to it make a yummy sleepy time drink. Molasses is the new superfood but be careful how many people you tell or David Wolfe will be selling it for 100 times the price !!
This is great. I gave up all my supplements about a month or so ago (yeah, like all 30 friggin pills I was taking every day–what the heck was I thinking?!). But I've been looking for a way to add minerals into my diet naturally. I've been going for liquid trace minerals, but you know it's hard to tell if that stuff is really decent quality or not. Gorging on fruit has been going so well for me, so why not throw some molasses in there as well?
Great second video. I'm going to go "accidentally" spill half a bottle of molasses in my milk right now…
Unfortunately Ray Peat isn't a fan of blackstrap molasses. I asked him about it a couple days ago and he replied "Although it's extremely rich in minerals, I think the intense heat used for concentrating it degrades the sugar into things that are likely to be allergens."
Not trying to rain on anybody's parade, just thought it should be mentioned in case some people were having some digestive problems with it.
The funny thing is, if I had encountered this as my first exposure to 180 health I'd probably have dismissed you as a quack. ((points finger) Quack!)
I can confirm that Halfasses is mighty tasty. I haven't made any mole-milk yet.
I would be extremely (Extremely!!) hesitant to reintroduce cane sugar (or any other refined sugar) into my diet however. The calories + complete lack of minerals, vitamins or nutrients is just a bad combination, and crowds out more nutrition foods from the menu.
Hey Matt, I think I might be able to work on a recipe for the first 180 food supplement. It's a "protein bar" made from dried fruit (cherries, banana, whatev), molasses and enough gelatin to make it a pleasant hardness. It's the perfect post-workout recovery bar. Good luck getting a cross-marketing agreement with Mark Sisson!
Matt, I am confused. Can you explain why it's not true that starch digests into glucose?
by the way I always think it's funny how low-carbers will go on and on about the distinction between saturated fat and PUFAs, how all fat was demonized but really saturated fat is fine… but they can't make the same mental leap with carbs?
aww yeah, gotta love the white rice. I'd say coconut rice is a staple at my place. I've yet to try this sugar/molasses stuff out though as I can't get any milk worth buying conveniently in Toronto.
I appreciate the broadened scope of your recommendations. Wondering if you've changed your mind on the appropriateness of starch over sugar generally, since most human cultures are starch not sugar based, even when fruit is widely available.
Also, with the recent boostering of gelatin, big up on broth! See, WAPF isn't all bad- shellfish and molasses and eggs and raw milk and stock. You'll fit right in this year. :-)
You pretty much covered the point that I feel the strongest about – that molasses can be a good fortifying 'catch up'.
When you think of all the enzyme activity that is required for the big re-feed, a sub-optimal ph alone can make it very hard to work that load into something useful. Not to mention all the other dedicated benefits of a healthy stash of minerals.
Therefore, I think anyone about to set sail on the sea of RRARF would be wise to pack a few cases of the black stuff to bring them up to speed. Depending how far gone they are it could save them a lot of time and weight gain.
Nice touch with the "Rocket Sauce" although I now feel the need to search my bedroom for listening devices;)
Wow, three posts in such short order! Something's fueling your mojo.
I think Terpol was linking not a different molasses brand but jaggery, which is Indian palm sugar, and kind of similar in general feel.
Thanks for the laughs–hope rover wagged himself half-assed.
I was just writing about how although I'm on a 'recovery from black and white thinking' program, I love certain black and white foods–this would definitely be one of them. I really can't stand cow's milk but replace it (in my mind) for coconut milk and the concept is so good.
And then you bring up chocolate: is your thinking that as adrenals heal, the negative effects of chocolate become better tolerated like other things? (I love the blackest chocolate but it doesn't love my adrenals.)
Interesting that your success with fruit correlates with working out more, and the caveat about keeping sugars low while healing metabolism is important indeed. (I think I mentioned before that if I let myself restrict at all, eating fruit will bomb my blood sugar, and that the longer I don't fall back into restricting, the better that gets.) On the other hand, you're approaching the fine line toward the 80-10-10 types, who almost seem to need to become exercise obsessed just to burn off the fruit–or is that a misconception?
There was a while there after we introduced raw milk where I was making my kids a "milk drink" every morning at breakfast — the recipe in the back of Ron Schmidt's _Untold Story of Raw Milk_. Cream, egg yolk, molasses, vanilla and raw milk.
YUM. I'm feeling a little drowsy here at 3 pm… maybe I'll see if a little halfasses perks me up.
Blackstrap molasses is the mojo :-) I've been taking it for a month and a half and do feel the difference. My hair is pretty long and thick already but seems to be growing faster. Generic aches and pains are less. Reduced PMS and period cramps. I haven't been sleeping much but not tired and skin is clear except a couple spots here and there. It could be a combination of overall thyroid functioning improving but I'm continuing the molasses with milk regime. Also,last winter my skin esp. on the legs was scaly and lizard like even with application of coconut oil and now it's smooth and I'm not using any moisturiser :-) I'm using the Plantation unsulphured organic blackstrap molasses.
I keeo seeing references to Plantaion brand blackstrap molasses being organic but the bottle I bought at my health food store they were out of my regular brand) does not state anywhere on it that it is organic. I normally buy Tree of Life brand which states clearly that it is organic and the mineral levels seems to reflect that (much higher than the aforementioned brand) I have been taking 1 Tbsp straight every morning for 2 years now to control excessive blood loss due to a large uterine fibroid and it has literally saved my life. The Plantation brand did not work. Prior to discovering the miracles of blackstrap molasses I was facing hospitalization for blood transfusions because I was so anemic. Tree of Life ORGANIC unuslphered blackstrap molasses changed all of that. I learned about it at earthclinic.com a website for people to leave reviews and ask questions about natural remedies. Turmeric and Cayenne are more secret weapons no one should be without.
How do i get this stuff if i live in Denmark? Is there someplace where you can order it from somewhere in Europe, and be sure that the quality is okay?
"Switchel"/"Haymaker's Punch" are great. I make a kind of watered down version — I just put a small 'glug' or so of blackstrap molasses into a glass, then add a decent splash of coconut water vinegar (I heavily prefer the taste of coconut water vinegar to apple cider vinegar – but that's just me), swirl it around until the molasses is 'in solution,' and then fill the glass with water and stir it all up.
I think it's completely refreshing, especially when it's hot out. In Chinese medicine, the sour flavor is 'cooling' — makes sense, thinking of lemonade being so refreshing in the summer. Anyway, the vinegar/blackstrap mix really is great.
The only 'supplements' I've been taking lately are switchel, nigarisui (nigari fortified water), and a gelatin/sodium ascorbate drink I make. It's all about the whole foods ;D
Really though…all those things I just mentioned really have unique flavors, and to me they taste amazing, all in their own way(s).
I haven't tried making water kefir yet, but I bet that would be good with blackstrap molasses. I wonder what it does to the sugar composition?
P.S. About the sugar composition — just out of curiosity, not wondering obsessively about the health effects of that. Just to clarify ;D
Also, I want to try the halfasses :D For some reason I always get gas/indigestion/bloating whenever I have milk that I haven't made into kefir/yogurt/etc. Every time I drink raw milk fresh, the same thing happens. I used to drink pasteurized skim milk all the time and had no problems I can remember with that…maybe I spontaneously developed lactose intolerance or something along those lines.
Anyway, that does look great. I used to mix molasses with milk, but never tried it with half and half. And back in the day I was probably using skim milk with the molasses – what a shame :c WHERE IS THE RICHNESS???
I want to try making gummy bears. You know, you could probably use blackstrap molasses instead of flavored Jell-O packets or table sugar. I'd be pretty curious to see how that would taste.
You could probably even use half and half or something instead of water to make them. Of course, that could just end up being a monumental failure and/or waste of time, but then again, if you could get something close to an actually healthy spin-off of those gummi Coca-Cola candies, that would be pretty cool. I wonder if using kefir instead of just half and half would give it that 'fizz' flavor.
Anyway, yeah, thanks for the post, I enjoyed this :D
You see it exactly how I see it. Eating calories without nutrients is a good way to go bankrupt. It feels good when you are getting all that great and metabolically-stimulating sugar from the white stuff, and that's probably what makes it so dangerous. Things that stimulate your metabolism but don't supply any nutrients are always a poor investment. But it could very well be that from a nutrient deficit standpoint that natural sugars play an important role in the healing process. I'm willing to consider it.
Rosenfelt – Thanks for that. No one should feel like they now have to get in their molasses even if they notice it's not going well. That's true of all foods.
Chris – I cook the crap out of those groats in water. 1-2 hours at a simmer. I do usually soak them overnight in water and rinse 'em off.
Tierney – Starch does digest primarily into glucose. Fructose has a "choose your own ending" kind of fate depending on the quantity ingested, glycogen storage capacity, exercise habits, metabolic rate, and many other factors. But fructose goes directly to the liver and is more effective for refueling liver glycogen.
I'm currently kinda thinkin about how the potentially most powerfull foods could be: Coconut – Lots of readily available energy from MCTs in the "fat fuel channel" Milk – Near perfect amino acid composition, lots of nutrients for a drink! Blackstrap Molasses – MINERALS!, two-bonded energy
And somehow all of those things are very easily digested. The question right here is probably "do we need the fiber or do we not?".
Rocket – Glad you are fumbling around for listening devices in the Rocket Sauce cue. Good to hear that my references are understood by at least someone.
Rob –
I just ate a dinner with rice, beans, and yams as my carbohydrates (2 out of 3 would make Peat gasp at the horrors of endotoxin and beta carotene! But hey, I did have me some gelatin, which is an interesting food that similarly makes up for a prior debt incurred by eating tons of muscle meat without broth – a modern habit).
I think it's important to understand that every human culture that had access to both starch and fruit ate both starch and fruit. None of them ate exclusively fruit. None of them ate exclusively starch. There are advantages to both. I would imagine as exercise level and intensity increases, the more the starch:sugar ratio tilts in favor of sugar – that's my experience with it. I never craved a baked potato after playing a double-header in 100 degree Tennessee summer heat as a teenager. It was a ritual to drink a quart of orange juice after the game. There's nothing on earth I wanted more. But either carb completely alone is probably suboptimal.
The only reason I would ever eat nothing but fruit as a carbohydrate would be if I needed to use my toes as an air-conditioner or am trying to be celibate – something your typical fruitarian will run into in fairly short order. Everyone probably has a general ratio that matches their physiology-du-jour and current lifestyle, and viewing all natural carbs as equally good is probably all one needs to remove any mental interference with the tastes that will lead us to that ratio naturally.
Tezza-
I have conditional love for Peat.
In Australia just mix vegemite with corn syrup and voila!! You got molasses!
I tried some molasses in some milk for the first time a few days ago and wasn't too impressed. I think I got a little excited and was pretty close to a 1:1 ratio. It was a little too stout. I'll ratchet it back a little next time.
I have the Tree of Life brand and noticed the mineral amounts are pretty much opposite of the rabbit's.
I'm firing out posts in rapid fire mostly because I'm no longer going to blog at the other sites but just one site from now on (which will hopefully migrate from here to the main http://www.180degreehealth.com domain before summer). So instead of a couple of posts per week plus an occasional food post you get 'em all stacked up here. Hopefully I'll keep doing 3-5 per week for a while. I am particularly mojo-fied right now though.
I don't think the 80-10-10 ers need to do tons of exercise to burn off the carbs. I can eat 4,000 calories of only fruit and greens per day and do no exercise and melt away like dark chocolate in the hot sun. Maintaining 165-170 pounds of muscle mass on a fruitarian diet would be difficult. And when that muscle mass starts to dissolve the whole body starts to break down, taking fat with it.
I think one of the keys for them is that eating so many carbs allows them to burn glucose instead of fat for endurance activity – allowing them to perform much faster. I had great endurance on a high fat diet, but no speed because my body was burning mostly fat instead of carbohdyrate – which will get you there, just much more slowly.
But there's no question that the ultimate athlete diet is always going to be pretty carb heavy. I don't think Graham's ideas on physical performance are that far off, particularly for endurance sports where having very litte lean body mass is advantageous. It's the "raw" and "vegan" provisions that are probably the main reasons his followers get into trouble on a long-term basis, and not the macronutrient ratios which are very common all over Asia and Africa and in other primate species.
I think most people miss the boat on fiber. Fiber fermentation yields the king of all fatty acids that make MCT's look like B grade crapola. MCT's are great because their chain length is shorter, but the short chain fats are even more powerful, especially slurped up right into the gut wall. Butyric acid actually facilitates the transport of T3 into the mitochondria to stimulate cellular energy production. Like me, it's kind of a big deal :)
Propionic acid is powerfully insulin sensitizing.
Jib –
I've had a lemonade made with unrefined sugar and molasses too. Got sick of it pretty quick, but it was good while it lasted.
Halfasses –
It's MUCH better with half n' half than milk for some reason.
Plantation-
Yeah, I never buy that brand. Like I said, maybe I'm deluding myself into believing the Brer Rabbit could really be that different based on its label, but that's how I roll.
Kasper –
Sheila just got some in Denmark. She said it was expensive and it may not even be good. You might just have to sit there being all Denmarky and miss out on what all the cool kids are doing.
I half assed and I liked it. Some articles say get 'organic' molasses cuz it can be highly pestisized. Do you think that's B.S. The Brer isn't organic, but the organic stuff has lower %cal/mag and higher iron. Even so, does this form of iron pose any dangers? -susan
I'm glad to see you working so much on all of these things. Your willingness to re-examine your ideas is really a valuable thing; pursuit of truth is always superior to the pursuit of an 'agenda.' I also think it opens the door to more exponential progress, which is really exciting.
I almost was going to delete this because I know this is your passion and lately it seems like you're on a roll, so it might not be an appropriate time to mention it. I did want to encourage you, though. We can all know how smart we are and that what we're doing is worthwhile and that we have something to offer to the world, but I do believe in getting validation from other people.
Thanks for all the hard work. I really enjoy keeping up with your blog. You probably already know you're making a big difference in a lot of people's lives but what can it hurt to hear it from one more person, you know?
Keep it up :D Just coming from someone who believes in the importance of people believing in each other. From an independent artist to an independent researcher, you could say.
Thanks, Matt–that would be great if the posts come through on a single blog, especially one where you can subscribe to the comments as opposed to having to check back manually or miss the boat. It's great to be on a roll.
Yeah, that's a good distinction between the imperative for carb-heavy diets for athletes (my biggest hesitation about plunging into the low-carb abyss was that I didn't know of any athletes who throve on it, but I managed to find some evidence to send me over the edge) versus carb-heavy diets being a good idea for regular mortals. I also _love_ what you're emphasizing about the short-chain fats from fibers: that's one of the biggest missing pieces, I feel.
Speaking of regular mortals, since I seem to be in a parenthetical mood, I used to chef for David Wolfe's events, where many refer to themselves as 'superheroes.' Getting together with my husband, who eats everything and performs physical feats on a regular basis made me think that maybe the latter was more 'heroic' than someone on a very restricted and rarefied diet. I still go back and forth but I know what you would say.
I'm surprised that you buy what the nutritional information says. Like you said yourself, hard to put much stock in that. I seem to remember thinking that the brer rabbit was the least tasty molasses (and I love molasses)–would be curious to find out what the variables are that yield those different numbers on different labels.
And I still want to know what you think about chocolate (whether adrenals can learn eventually to handle it again)!
Molasses is good in gingerbread, but I can't really imagine it's cook in milk. I mean, the first time I opened a jar of molasses the aroma knocked the breath out of me! Dang it was strong!
My curiosity is piqued though…I may try it yet, or better get my husband to do it first :)
Just wanted to say I've really been enjoying these last few posts, Matty. And so happy about the turn-around on fruit. It's my favorite thing in the world and it never made sense that organic whole fruits (e.g. not refined unbound fructose) is "bad for you."
As a big fan of molasses in the past, and as I'm very familiar with jaggery — I would love to see you also experiment with that and other similar coconut palm sugars ("wet", that is non-crystalized.)
"Unfortunately Ray Peat isn't a fan of blackstrap molasses. I asked him about it a couple days ago and he replied "Although it's extremely rich in minerals, I think the intense heat used for concentrating it degrades the sugar into things that are likely to be allergens.""
That's retarded. Molasses is made from the same process that creates the refined sugar Peat touts so highly. They're the two products of the same process, so if his sugar (in ice cream) isn't an allergen, how can the sugars left in the molasses be problematic?
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Re: Oat Groats – I make them in my Zojirushi rice cooker. A good rice cooker is a great investment for anyone who wants to cook whole grains and porridges. Mine has a dozen settings and a timer, so I can set it the night before, it soaks overnight (Sally Fallon approved) and cooks in the morning right when I wake up. So convenient.
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Matt said: "Like me, it's kind of a big deal :)"
You can't be that big a deal. You sell e-books. If you were a big deal your books would be leatherbound and your apartment would smell of rich mahogany.
I grew up w black strap in milk. It never occurred to me that it might make a nice iced 'tea' type drink. I'll have to give it a try. I seem to need the minerals.
Good tip! I made a bowl of lightly toasted shredded coconut, gelatin, guava juice, a banana and the molasses. That's my oatmeal substitute, not perfect but I'll take it.
I've been drinking molasses milk for decades. My mom started me on it when I was a kid.
I think the best way to understand the difference between molasses and sugar is that the refining process is optimized to divert most of the sucrose to the crystallization side. Molasses is not very sweet as a result. So whatever evil sucrose may be responsible for is mostly absent in molasses. And of course all the nutrients are diverted to the molasses.
I think the main problem with fructose is that it is mis-classified as a carb. It's clearly a carb outside the body, but in the body it's converted to fat.
There are numerous studies in pubmed on this topic now.
Its sad to see people avoid fat, but eat lots of sugar half of which is mostly converted to fat!
You know Matt, I'm half tempted to give this a try myself over the next few weeks before you publish your conclusions. By "this" I'm referring to consumption of sugar in general. You see, I have a bit of a life long sugar intolerance. Any time I eat even one apple I get horrendous gas, I gain weight, and have terrible moods swings. I'm talking intense anger to self loathing depression in the span of less than an hour, something I've dealt with for most of my 23 years of living. Of course, as a child I was "normal" and happy prior to my Grandma overfeeding me with processed sugar items. I sure do love my KitKat. Give me a break, indeed.
In the last 6 months of "Matt Stone-ing it" I've found that my reaction to sugar has improved, albeit minimally. Even if I eat a large amount of yams, in my case usually 2 pounds or so because I find them oh so yumyum, the sugar content of those are enough to set off my mood swings. I can tolerate short term blubber gain and horrific gas, but the whole angsty BS is what has kept me from challenging sugar simply because I'm enjoying having no mood problems for the first time in over a decade. I don't know about you, but I think talking to girls without becoming an uptight weirdo is kinda cool.
However, I think it's time to shake things up a bit. HEIL SCIENCE!
If I were to say elevate my heart rate up to 100-155 beats a minute first thing in the morning and keep it at atleast 100 for a couple hours will my body be able to convert more sugarcane to carbohydrate?
Do you also add sugarcane by itself, not just the sugarcane molasses? If so do you feel it's healthy to do this because you eat a balanced diet? Do you do it because it both improves the flavor and fuels your workouts as a pre, peri, and postworkout drink?
Scott Abel says after an exhaustive anaerobic workout your body can only refuel 5% glycogen stores every hour, and that it takes 20 hours for them to become completely open. A person that has developed high anaerobic endurance can store 15g of carbohydrate per a kilogram of bodyweight. So I can store a little over 1000g, 8 pounds of glycogen, and can only refuel with 58g every hour post workout.
I've read you want 7.5g of 100% bioavailable magnesium per a pound of lean body mass for three months and want to maintain at 4.5g per a pound of lean body mass for the rest of your life though I regret I can't find the source that says that anymore. Do you believe in the dietary reference intake instead? 4 tblspns of your brand contains 400mg of magnesium. Not bad considering 72 oz of it costs $26 at http://www.amazon.com Is there any concern for calcium stones with blackstrap molasses, especially with higher intakes? If so how can I prevent calcium stones? Here's a good article on why what type of magnesium you supplement with is important, and why whole food sources are the best way to go:
What do you think of dextrose and maltodextrin as far as refined carbonydrates go. Is it superior or inferior to regular sugarcane and sucrose. Is it better or worse to have for pre and peri workout nutrition? For the purpose of converting to a higher percentage of carbohydrate and less as fat. Those are both starches, but they are as easy to break down as simple carbohydrates versus whole food starches because their structure is as simple as simple carbohydrates structure. Are those starches easier on the blood sugar and health than refined simple carbohydrates?
I bought some Australian grown molasses at Coles in Melbourne. I had to ask the staff to help me find it as it was hidden away. There was only one brand on the shelf, even though it was a big store. I only bought it for a recipe which didn't turn out. Yuck! It's obviously an acquired taste. I think it kind of tastes like dutch licorice.
And no, Matt I don't think vegemite with corn syrup would be the same! Vegemite (yeast extract) is high in B vitamins and actually tastes nice!
Paul Ericson, I haven't seen any study that shows a fattening effect of sucrose on humans. Can you show me a few of those studies you are talking about?
to jib and matt, I thought the same thing as you jib when I first read this post. I'm glad that ideas and mentalities are up for change and debate and that dietary dogma doesn't reign free.
"Any time I eat even one apple I get horrendous gas…. a large amount of yams… etc"
Just a shot in the dark, but it sounds like it's a problem with bacteria and your inability to digest certain substances, rather than sugar. Apples and yams may be especially problematic because of their fiber, and the sugar alcohol sorbitol in the apples is largely indigestible. Sorbitol is largely what makes prunes known as a laxative.
On the other hand, I know there's such thing as fructose malabsorption. But I seem to remember reading that fructose is absorbed better when combined with glucose. If you do have a problem with fructose, and not just fiber and sugar alcohols, I wonder if you could better tolerate sucrose instead of HFCS, where the fructose is free. (Relating to this post, there is minimal free fructose in molasses. It is mostly sucrose.)
If I'm going to play doctor, I'd also suggest lots of probiotics, perhaps HCl pills to boost stomach acid, and of course hypothyroidism is blamed for pretty much everything.
"Bacterial overgrowth in the small intestine can be caused by hypothyroidism (Lauritano, et al., 2007), and the substances produced by these bacteria can damage the lining of the small intestine, causing the loss of lactase enzymes (Walshe, et al., 1990)." http://raypeat.com/articles/articles/milk.shtml
Daniel Holt:
"Is there any concern for calcium stones with blackstrap molasses"
According to Peat, calcium stones form as a consequence of too little calcium, not to much. Oddly. Also I wonder if fluoride has anything to do with it.
The refined sugar crystallizes precisely because it is pure, and not the things that Peat says might be byproducts. I think he's talking about AGEs, or the same things that form when you char meat. But a lot of people like their meat charred. It occurred to me that charcoal is used as a filter for toxins, like in your water filter. We might like it for that reason, just like certain monkeys eat charcoal from human campsites in order to cure their indigestion.
I'm surprised that Peat didn't comment on the iron content of molasses, if I have to nitpick.
So there are reasons why molasses might be good, and reasons why it might not be. As always, I would follow both feelings and tradition. If you feel like having molasses, then go for it; and if you don't, it's not like you have to. Matt has apologetically chosen the absolute highest mineral source of sugar there is in introducing fructose to the 180 lifestyle, but please note that it's the sugar that is the attraction. Molasses is still mostly sucrose, despite what one person said. He also has made a great honey-based barbecue sauce, and honey has pretty much no minerals (or vitamins). It's pure sugar. ———
To sum up, I'm really happy Matt's come around to sugar. For some reason, I really like soda– helps to digest during and after meals. One of the criticisms of soda is that the phosphoric acid will dissolve nails, teeth, etc. Well, so would stomach acid. This is good for digestion. And the carbonation seems good too. The whole practice of carbonating soda started because it was believed that carbonated water was healthy.
The only thing is, I wish I didn't have to worry about fluoride, mercury, lead, and so on in commercial soda. (I also prefer to have no caffeine.) And also, I wish soda wasn't SO nutrient deficient. So it might be good to get a home water carbonator ($100-$200), and then– perhaps we can have molasses soda! To (further) acidify it, fruit juice would probably be good, but, Peat doesn't recommend combining vitamin C with iron, as it enhances its absorption. Also I've noticed that I like phosphoric acid in soda rather than citric acid, so, I'm not sure what to think.
@Kasper: I'm from Germany and I just bought a can of molasses from a "Reformhaus". I don't know if there's anything similar in Denmark, it's a shop for all kinds of organig foods and natural health products and stuff like that.
@Mr. Stone: I think you once said that it might be better to eat fruit/sugar on it's own and make it a fruit only meal. Do you still think that's true or do you think that having a normal starch-centered breakfast with some protein and fat for example with some fruit/molasses is totally fine?
@Molasses & Milk: What are the rough ratios to use for adding molasses to milk? Never ever used that stuff in my life and I don't really care about trial & error.
Jared: Interesting thoughts on charred meat. I've often wondered why some people (like my husband) really like their steak insanely well done. Maybe you're on to something.
I personally go for a 17ml tablespoon dissolved in about a 500ml glass of warm water or milk. If the milk is cold it's easier to dissolve it in a little warm water first then top up with milk.
Dosage is a very personal thing though, you may feel like you want more than that for a short while then lose your appetite for it a bit like I did. I cut back from an initial 3 tbsp's to 2 and occasionally just 1.
Nice post. Great vids, the second one is hilarious! Does anyone know about Carob Molasses/Syrup and how it compares to this stuff?
Also gotta second Rockets recommendation for the meridan blackstrap and also worth noting for those in the UK Blackstrap Molasses goes by the name of Black Treacle…..
Hi MATT i am currently doing rrarf i am 18 years old and i have a pretty serious acne problem usually a play basketball(not for at least 2 months because the season here is finished and i will start playing again or lifting weitghts for vertical jump in like 1 month after i finish overfeeding ) and i am not fat but i have some belly i am also very tall 6"5 inches (196 cm) and i think i am still growing alot i always used to eat lots of chocolate(unfortunatley this included snikeres ecc) and tryed to restric carb but never cuold do it for more than a day(for a very good reason like u explain) alwyas had sweet toot very sweet in the first tree days i still had to take some chocolate yesterday because the carving was too high LOL do u suggest me to go high startch or go high evrything?? my temparture in the mroning is 96.5 F any sugesstions wuold be appreciated
I never thought of that and personally don't think that's my problem mostly because I can eat 70% of my calories from russet potatoes for 2-3 weeks and never experience any issues. However, that may be part of it. I just ate a bunch of apples and several spoonfuls of straight molasses and so far I feel energetic and super clearheaded much as I did when I was a raw vegan.
I'd much rather not waste my money on Probiotics as I'm a firm believer that everything I need to accomplish can be done via food. My mindset is; if a caveman was healthy eating foods from the earth, why can't I?
molasses is yummy. I just ate 3 large spoon fulls of it. On a side note, I have not used toothpaste in nearly a year (I use water and a toothbrush) so if anyone's teeth is going to fall out it would be mine. My mom is a dental hygienist and cleans my teeth, with love, twice yearly. We have an unspoken bet going on about my no toothpaste experiment and how it'll affect my dental health. So far so good.
Chris–carob molasses, date syrup, pomegranate molasses are all similar things, and they're all from the middle east/Mediterranean area (traditional foods for me!) Basically, they are concentrates of the sugars in the foods mentioned, and don't contain any sugarcane ingredients. In my experience, they don't contain any 'other' ingredients: are simply concentrates.
I'm guessing that their nutrient profiles would mirror the whole food, so the carob molasses might well be high in calcium, for example. If you've ever eaten fresh carob from the pod, it tastes slightly more like that (but concentrated, of course) than like the powder. Sweet and intense!
Thanks Ela. Good to know! @ Robert – its not always the case with black treacle as the real deal should just be molasses, this is the one I sometimes buy http://tinyurl.com/4hl4k55 usually though I just go for the Meridan Blackstrap Molasses. They taste identical though…..
For your information we can be all Denmarky AND have our molasses too, so SHUT UP ;-P
KASPER- Jeg bestilte noget fra England (same m?rke som Rocket refererer til) Selve molassen er ikke dyr men sendingen koster en del pga v?gten (det s?lges i glas) Det m?rke (MERIDIAN) som Rocket har linket til er det samme m?rke jeg fik fra England. Vidste ikke man kunne f? det i DK. Fremover vil jeg bestille det fra den danske side.
The semi-rotten coconut I just cracked open smells a little bit like mohagany.
Anonymous-
"I don't know about you, but I think talking to girls without becoming an uptight weirdo is kinda cool."
I wouldn't know!!! Ha ha.
My various sugar experiences have definitely been interesting. I know the negative symptoms that you speak of. For me, when I have sweets I really have to go big on them. Just having a little "taste" is more likely to trigger problems than eating to fullness of a giant platter of fruit in the morning. Sucrose and fruits like bananas and oranges seem to be the least aggravating. Apples are the worst.
Dan-
I'm aware that Abel states this. I eat lots of carbs at other times during the day as well, but emphasize it in the morning and peri-workouts when it seems most likely to become glycogen and less likely to, as Paul mentioned by looking at some studies out of context – turn to fat.
I decided to go carb bonkers with the same line of thinking about the amount of glycogen an elite athlete can store – a certain amount of carbohydrate per kilogram of lean body mass. I think with a significant amount of hard training it would be easy to start to run at a glycogen deficit if you didn't eat carbs pretty aggressively.
Try it and see. I still don't like mixing a lot of fruit with other foods. When I was eating lots of bananas with oatmeal and milk for instance my teeth started to get quite sore. Not so when I eat them in isolation.
You can always eat a bunch of fruit and still have a normal breakfast an hour or two later. Depends on your schedule I guess.
"I'd much rather not waste my money on Probiotics as I'm a firm believer that everything I need to accomplish can be done via food. My mindset is; if a caveman was healthy eating foods from the earth, why can't I?"
Gut bacteria is first passed down to a baby through the mother's breastmilk. If your mother's bacteria was off, or worse, you were formula fed, this can set you up for a lifelong problem (though Matt seems to be doing alright, gut-flora-wise). There are two things different about our modern society that we may need to compensate for. One, there are all kinds of things that mess with gut flora– from antibiotics to mercury fillings (though I have heard that candida may be a protective response against mercury). Two, we do not have a steady supply of probiotics in foods, as our ancestors did. Before refrigeration, most things used to be stored by fermenting them, which were protected by good bacteria.
I wasn't just suggesting probiotic pills, which can be quite expensive. (If you only try just one, the Garden of Life "Primal Defense Ultra Formula" is recommended, as it has "soil bacteria" instead of ones commonly found in yogurt. A search on Google shows one available for $21.) I was also just suggesting food sources of probiotics, such as yogurt, Bubbies sauerkraut or pickles, kombucha, and coconut water kefir, now available in Whole Foods. I don't suggest you eat these religiously, but it wouldn't hurt to have them once in a while.
Ray Peat has also mentioned that antibiotics often have beneficial effects. Perhaps a day of antibiotics would be good before taking the probiotics. (I don't believe in the "if you use antibiotics, it must be for 7-10 days, or else you're breeding resistant bacteria" thing. But that's just me.) You can experiment with anti-fungals too, but I would never recommend long-term.
But, if we believe that hypothyroidism can be responsible for bacterial overgrowth (as is a suspected cause of artery plagues), then Matt's program of not starving yourself should help too.
Anyways, glad to hear you're tolerating molasses just fine.
As for toothpaste, I too find it funny that I haven't used fluoride in years, yet the dentist said my teeth and gums look better than ever. Though, it's not necessary to go full caveman. I myself use non-fluoride Tom's of Maine, with xylitol and baking soda in it. I've found it works exceptionally well with IPSAB tooth powder sprinkled on top, which is mostly just powdered salt.
I'd also just like to point out another thing about fructose. I've done research on fructose and found, to my dismay, that it definitely does raise LDL, and lower HDL, which is bad news according to everyone. …Everyone except Ray Peat of course! Peat points out that, while the popularly recommend ratio is associated with less heart attacks, it's also associated with more cancer. Peat says LDL is "extremely good because it is used as the source for producing progesterone and DHEA". (PMS to Menopause, p.10) It appears there are different sizes of LDL particles, which may cause (or be caused) by different things, and are not measured in these studies.
"Smaller lipoprotein particles have a greater surface area exposed to the oxidative factors in the serum, and so are more rapidly degraded into toxic substances. People with larger LDL particles are remarkably resistant to heart disease, and the drug companies are looking for a way to turn their lipoproteins into products. But the conditions that govern the size of the LDL particles are physically and chemically reasonable, and are causing confusion among the doctrinaire." http://raypeat.com/articles/articles/cholesterol-longevity.shtml
As for uric acid: Like cholesterol, elevated uric acid may not be a problem, but a protective response to a problem. Uric acid is both a stimulant and anti-oxidant. In this light, cravings for sugar may be further justified. In reviewing the research, I've found that the concentration of uric acid required in order to crystallize, in order to cause gout, is variable from person to person. The crystallization may occur due to other factors.
My grandfather (born in 1st decade of the 20th century & passed away years ago) told my mother during her pregnancy with me to eat molasses. As I've learned more about molasses, I can see why it might do a body good! Good old timey advice that might have been passed around at one time….
Get on to Sprial Foods in Melbourne – they do an organic blackstrap. It's available in a 20lt bucket and ends up costing almost nothing per jar equivalent!
Otherwise Merlose do a good one. One other brand which I can't rcall do a good one, as well.
I've heard from numerous sources that babies are born sterile, with no bacteria in their digestive tract. It does seem weird that bacteria would be in breastmilk, but this goes with the idea that our entire bodies contain bacteria and we live in synergy with them, provided the body has the right environment and temperature for our own cells to thrive.
Babies are born sterile. They are exposed to their first bacteria in the vaginal canal and from the external environment. Same with breast milk, it is sterile but the baby does get bacteria from the mother's skin during contact while breastfeeding. Our bodies do live in harmony with microbes, but not in the internal systems. If you have a weak immune system and you get a cut, the normal staph bacteria on your skin can cause a massive infection because that particular bacteria is only suited for being on our skin. The digestive tract is technically external because it is "outside" the body if you think about it (like the inside of a pipe, but with a few sphincters here and there).
"I don't believe in the "if you use antibiotics, it must be for 7-10 days, or else you're breeding resistant bacteria" thing. But that's just me."
You should believe that. Using antibiotics creates quick evolution on a small scale environment. The bacteria that are most resistant to the antibiotic are slower to die off. If they are never killed, they quickly reproduce and soon all of that particular bacteria are more resistant. Antibiotics should be taken for a longer period to ensure that all bacteria, especially the most resistant, are killed. Of course, this means nothing to a healthy person. I have not taken any antibiotics since I was a kid and I hope to never take any again. Doctors have caused this problem by giving people who have colds (caused by viruses) antibiotics, so a lot of people are now stuck with bacteria that have high resistance to common antibiotics. Ah, modern health care serving us again.
Matt AND Jared Bond: Yeah my reaction today with sugar was pretty atypical. Might be because i ate the hell out of it rather than teasing myself. don't really know. what i do know is that i feel a little sleepier than normal, i feel "fatter", and i did get irritable for a couple hours followed by me feeling kinda guilty for being crabby, but no where near what it was last time i tried (about a month ago). speaking of sore teeth, i definitely got that going on but it disappeared shortly after i ate some potatoes and ground beef.
anyways, i'll let you fellas know if my penis gains weight or something over the next 13 days.
(What's with the disappearing comments everyone keeps mentioning?) I can't find the comment now linking to the Ray Peat article on the evils of carrageenan–was it from Jared?
A serious bummer to me, as I regularly use whole irish moss (soaked many times and blended into a gel): has been my main culinary replacement for flax and chia! I want to suspect that the whole food is ok and the additive derivative is problematic, but he seems to be inveighing against the whole class of polysaccharides, which all my other reading suggests to be super-healthy.
Matt–I don't know about 'Mohagony' but rotten coconut is one of the worst smells… I have a classic old photo from HI days on facebook, topless but for the coconuts, covered in rotten coconut spray after whacking open a dozen to get six…
I just found out that glycogen can't be synthesised in the absence of potassium.
It all adds up.
If a minerally deficient person eats lots of empty high carb food it just goes straight Into fat cells accompanied by lack of energy low thyroid symptoms etc.
Furnish the body with all the minerals it needs particularly potassium and ingested carbs are easily converted into glycogen resulting in increased energy, reduced fat storage etc.
It's no coincidence that a bananas sweetness is only matched by it's potassium content.
I've spent the last couple of mornings loading up on glycogen – sweet coffee's, bananas, OJ and I feel really good. If I'd done this a year ago I would have felt like junk.
Oh yeah, I also found out that sugar cane's roots go down about 15 feet into the ground.
No wonder a glass of jockstrap halfasses is so mineral dense.
I'm testing this carb loading thing as well just adding a morning drink to my standard eating routine, I don't really have low energy or symptoms of hypometabolism even though I've been fasting till lunch for almost a year now since going of the rrarf, but always curious to see if one can go higher. When I originally did the RRARF, I did get my morning basal temp up to the coveted 98.2F and even quite a bit beyond, but I never did feel like that description of the "adrenal type" with boundless spontaneous energy. Mostly I was just very, very warm.
Day 1 was the best so far, I had a smoothie consisting of 4 oranges, 4 bananas, 250g strawberries, 125g of molasses and half a liter of whole milk in the morning, approx 300g of carbs ingested in 5 minutes. I had amazing energy and warmth all throughout the morning, just basically flying off the ground with each step and feeling a lot more social than usual, after lunch my energy tapered off to pretty much like normal.
Every day after that though (day 4 now) I've been getting very tired after the carbo loading and just want to go back to bed, today I even got hungry very quickly after the load, maybe connected to spending all day yesterday binging on carbs? I'm still getting a lot of heat production throughout the day from these loads.
I also started a regular exercise program a few days prior to this, just a few sets of weightlifting, 60-70 kettlebell swings and 6-7 interval sprints 2-3 times per week, not sure how that is impacting on my hunger for carbs, I've gained like 6 pounds since I started doing the sprints, but hard to tell if I've gained any fat or not. How long have people been doing this carb loading stuff and how long until you started to feel unanimously that it was doing you good?
Thanks to everyone who gave suggestions – found a supplier for Melrose blackbrastrap molearses. I suppose if I get desperate I can always substitute Vegemite and HFCS… no, on second thoughts I'll never get THAT desperate. Although pouring a mixture of Vegemite, HFCS, and milk onto your porridge would give it an … interesting … flavour.
Hey Matt, Despite all the research that I have read on fructose, I've always been skeptical that fructose in it's natural form (fruit) can cause problems when the person is already healthy. I eat animal fats, potatoes, meat, fermented dairy, and veggies to satiety and I think that I might start incorporating your idea of having some fruit first thing in the morning and then have my usual breakfast later on. My question is around body fat. As I think that you generally ascribe to the body fat set point theory, what would you say is the range that the body wants to be at without forcing it? I would guess 10-15% for a male for example and anything under that would require conscious calorie restriction. On the low end of that range, most guys shouldn't have much, if any, central adiposity and enough leaness to look good but not be shredded. I'd be curious to hear your thoughts and if your body composition has fallen in line with this theory over the years of your experiments. Thanks
I have results from a little experiment I did. I thought I'd just drop this in for whoever is reading the thread. You might find it interesting.
Last week I bought a 5 lb. bag of fresh wheat berries. I've never had them before, and (this is a comment on our modern world) I realized I've never even seen them before.
On Thursday and Friday I cooked them whole in the rice cooker for a morning breakfast cereal. I added butter, cream and molasses. I also had a glass of milk.
On Saturday I ground the exact same amount of the wheat berries into flour and made pancakes, with milk, coconut oil, butter and an egg. The only differences between the two recipes were (1) swap out cream for coconut oil, and (2) the addition of 1 egg to the pancakes (and some baking soda). All other portions were the same.
The difference in satiety between the two meals was significant, considering how similar they were. On both mornings I had the whole wheat berries for breakfast I was hungry by 10 AM, and hungry enough by 11 AM that I couldn't wait for lunch any longer. I ended up eating several bacon cheese burgers to get my hunger under control.
On Saturday however I wasn't hungry at all. I also felt more mentally alert and physically energetic. On Thursday and Friday I was just sitting at my desk and didn't feel tired, but I wasn't fidgeting either. On Saturday though I was fidgeting while driving, and then I arrived at a city park for a toddler birthday party. Chasing 2-year-olds around a park is usually pretty tiring for most people, but I didn't feel tired at all the entire time and was perfectly mentally alert on the drive home too (it was a long drive). I wasn't even peckish until 1 AM, and then just had a fourth pancake leftover from breakfast and that kept me going until 3 PM when we got home.
This makes me think about the food preparation and fermentation methods of pre-modern peoples, and why they may have done what they did. We know from several examples that fermentation isn't strictly necessary (I don't think anyone in Asia ferments the greater part of their rice, and we have many examples of quick-bread staples throughout history) for nutritional purposes, but many did it anyway. Why all the sourdough and poi? I think the answer is two-fold.
One, some sort of processing is necessary to really maximize energy and nutrient extraction. Mix it with a bit of water and some sort of fermentation is almost unavoidable. Maybe they fermented it in certain (acceptable) ways just to prevent it from fermenting in other ways (aka, spoiling).
Two, fermented foods are preserved for much longer than non-fermented foods. Especially if you an keep them protected from oxygen exposure. In a world without refrigeration that's no small benefit.
Any nutritional benefit may have simply been a bonus.
You know, with all this talk about fructose and that 101 year old alcoholic makes me wonder where the line really is for what's considered "good for us". it seems to me that as long as it naturally contains some amount of vitamins and nutrients, perhaps some way to help it move along the digestive tract (be it fat or fiber), our bodies can handle anything. The only people who are already unhealthy are the ones who have problems. domino effect like wut. it's interesting to me because almost everything in nature has a beneficial effect on the human body. i wouldn't be surprised if in a few years Matt starts advocating smoking and cocaine haha. how nutritious is beer and wine? i haven't drank in a good 9 months and, as a fan of beer, Buster makes me want to drink again, at least casually.
also, blackstrap seems to indeed be very rich in minerals. i've been eating several spoonfuls of it with every meal for the past 2 days and have developed symptoms very similar to, albeit far milder, one time when i accidentally OD'd on magnesium. had crazy aches all over my body, was on the toilet a lot, and in general felt like hell. i helped alleviate my symptoms at the time by taking a tums to even out the calcium/magnesium ratio. i took a tums an hour ago and feel much better. take that for what you will.
Matt, you said: It's the "raw" and "vegan" provisions that are probably the main reasons his followers get into trouble on a long-term basis, and not the macronutrient ratios which are very common all over Asia and Africa and in other primate species." Yet apes, as I understand, are hindgut fermenters, so a very big part, or most of their energy comes from fat, differently to what happens to a human eating a very high carb diet. Just wanted to keep that clear.
"(What's with the disappearing comments everyone keeps mentioning?) I can't find the comment now linking to the Ray Peat article on the evils of carrageenan–was it from Jared?"
Yeah, it was that comment that disappeared twice. Maybe Matt didn't like what I said? :( My basic point was that I don't think sugar in any way causes acne, which is a common belief.
Swede:
"Babies are born sterile. They are exposed to their first bacteria in the vaginal canal and from the external environment. …" "Our bodies do live in harmony with microbes, but not in the internal systems."
I thought I got the idea that breastmilk does have bacteria from Natasha Campbell-McBride, but I couldn't find a direct quote. She does say it "promotes the process of populating the gut wall with appropriate bacteria", but she remains ambiguous. What I was also thinking of is what they say to promote raw milk. In pasteurizing milk, they destroy the bacteria naturally in the milk, leaving it open to potentially more harmful kinds taking root, even if we can't taste them yet.
The idea that microbes live everywhere within us came from Nance Appleton's "Rethinking Pasteur's Germ Theory". Pg. 44:
"Bechamp continued other experiments with different media. His research showed that throughout the cells of living organisms there are much smaller units– and there are millions of them. These ?micro?zymas? are present in cells in the bloodstream, in plants, in every liv?ing thing. They organize and nourish all the cells of life forms at the molecular level. They are elementary units in all living struc’tures, as well as the controlling factor in the cells of all animal and plant life. Although usually healthy, microzymas can develop into disease?-producing bacteria, viruses, and fungus that can lead to chronic and degenerative illness. Bechamp believed these little bodies were ?pleomorphic?, changing form continually when they were both healthy and diseased. According to the scientific theory of pleo?morphism, bacteria change and take on multiple forms during a sin?gle life cycle. In much the same way as a caterpillar grows into a butterfly or a tadpole develops into a frog, the microzymas can change both form and function."
(P.S.- use ReadIris to scan in text from a book!)
Interestingly, Wikipedia does not have an entry on microzymas.
Bechamp believed that microzymas were bacteria in their dormant state. He found microzymas living in "1,000 year old" rocks that were the same as in the human body. Microzymas existed in all organs of the human, and even a developing fetus.
Ray Peat also mentioned a man who grew cartilage from cells of a human that had been "dead" for 100 years. He proposed that animal cells also have a dormant phase. http://raypeat.com/articles/articles/stemcells.shtml ——-
"Using antibiotics creates quick evolution on a small scale environment. …Antibiotics should be taken for a longer period to ensure that all bacteria, especially the most resistant, are killed."
I understand the theory behind this and it makes sense, but for some reason I still don't buy it. I guess one reason is that I don't believe "all" the bacteria can be killed in any amount of time. If this is true, the longer antibiotics are used, the more resistant the entire population gets. Or, the more unbalanced the population gets. I think the advice that the government gives can generally be expected to be detrimental.
I have read that molasses is a good source of chromium as well as the other minerals you mention. Chromium is involved in insulin response, and is depleted by consuming excess sugars. Sorry not to have the source.
It's funny that you wrote about the molasses…about a week ago, I started adding it to my morning blender drink. My drink started out with just fruits and veggies, then I started adding cottage cheese and eggs, which lent itself to cinnamon and molasses. Doesn't taste too good but it's good for me LOL!
You answered my question about eating starch and sugar at the same time. I guess maybe my morning drink should be all fruit or all veggies and not such a mix.
It remains to be seen what the sugar and starch thing will reveal.
Madmuhhh-
It's fasincating but too nebulous to write much more about it specifically.
El66k-
Attributing one trait to 658 species is probably a mistake. Folivores obviously rely much more heavily on hindgut fermentation. This is not so for the more frugivorous primates. Humans can still do quite a bit of fermentation and produce quite a bit of SCFA's, which I have a feeling is extremely positive in its overall effect.
Its a bit annoying how your always changing your mind! One minute refined sugar is to be avoided especially if you have adrenal fatigue and next minute its great for your body, even better than starch! I though starch 4 life was basically the 180 degree health motto lol
A little off topic for this post but would have been more apropos for the epigenetics post, but there is a bible quote that goes something like "the sins of the father will be passed on for 7 generations" or something like that. I always thought that it referred to something like if you smoked cigarettes, it would take 7 generations for that to be completely cleansed from your bloodline. An observant people perhaps? Maybe there is some truth to that quote.
I've been trying the all-fruit breakfast for the past five days, followed by a normal meal about two hours later (e.g. 2 eggs and some potatoe fried in butter, and spinach fried in unflavoured coconut oil). I feel light headed, spaced out from shortly after I've finished the fruit and for over three hours after eating the fruit. Does this mean it's not a good idea for me now, or if I keep doing it my body will get used to it?
I gave this an answer in the newer post. It will be weeks before we get to discussing this in depth. Until then keep toying around with it and be ready to contribute your experiences to the conversation when it arrives.
"Ray Peat also mentioned a man who grew cartilage from cells of a human that had been "dead" for 100 years. He proposed that animal cells also have a dormant phase. http://raypeat.com/articles/articles/stemcells.shtml
Okaaaaaay. Remember to take Peat with a grain of sea salt (but only white sea salt, the colored kind is full of toxins!)
The "Indian Pudding" looks interesting. I will try it. Maybe with some cream over it, so it makes it's own halfasses gravy.
jared, I think Brock is right on the antiobiotics tip. My own recent and painful experience was that I was prescribed antibiotics for a cyst. I didn't take the full course. The cyst never healed. Then I got strep throat. I took the rest of the antibiotics that I had from the cyst and my throat felt better. But a few weeks later I got sick again, from stress and from having strep bacteria around me at work. (Everyone has been getting it here) Now I was out of antibiotics so I went back to the doctor and this time the antibiotics did nothing. I went back a few days later feeling like hell and they prescribed stronger antiobiotics that luckily knocked out the strep and cyst.
So yeah, I missed a week of work and about ten days of life, although my movie watching has been top notch. Lesson learned.
Rapadura is "whole cane sugar", it is very nutritious and full of vitamins and minerals. It is basically evaporated sugarcane juice. Another alternative is turbinado (brand name Sugar in the Raw), which may not be as nutritious, but still a less refined option than white sugar. Brown sugar is white sugar, with I'm guessing a small amount of molasses added back in for color and flavor, but very little nutrients.
Stancel: "Rapadura is "whole cane sugar", it is very nutritious and full of vitamins and minerals. "
I looked up nutrition info for rapadura and couldn't find that it had any vitamins and minerals at all. Sucanet, which is another proprietary evaporated whole sugar cane juice product has a small amount of potassium and calcium, neither of which are enough to amount to a percent daily value. Of course, since calcium and potassium deficiencies have been linked to saccarine disease this might actually be important. Still I wouldn't kid myself too much that it is full of vitamins and minerals.
Also, I'm really skeptical about Matt's Brair Rabbit Molasses. The organic molasses I have is just a tiny fraction of the amount of minerals as are in that.
Turbinado or sugar in the raw is just colored white sugar. They use a trace amount of molasses to color it and make it into slightly bigger chunks so it seems less refined. Also Sugar in the Raw is no where near Rapunzel or some of the whole foods companies in terms of their fair trade policies etc.
Thanks for letting me know about black strap molasses and your whole take on sugar. I was always tired after my Karate practices in the evening and it took me a long time to recover and feel normal again. But because of your recent writings on sugar I ate fruit and drank sweetened rice milk (I'm lactose intolerant – but maybe this will change). I noticed my energy level perking up a lot more quickly after that.
Anyhow, I think you've got some magical powers as I've been reading your blogs and ebooks nonstop for a few days. I really enjoy your work. Keep it up. You are really making a difference.
i have never tried this stuff but it looks pretty good, loads of pottasium too.
http://www.naturaljaggery.com/
and Matt i don't know your view on coffee but it'll sort out the iron in that molasses haha. probably doesn't taste bad either
I like to make myself a nice iced molasses whenever I get a bit of a sweet tooth. I dissolve about a tbsp or two of molasses in a bit of boiling water and then fill the rest of the glass up with milk and finish with some ice cubes. Delicious!
Terpol-
I buy this brand specifically because it has the highest mag and calcium content and the lowest iron content of any molasses label I've checked. Although, hard to put much stock into the accuracy of a label.
why are u knowcking the iron? this is the best source of iron that is the most easiely assimilated and we need good iron. An organic brand of mo is better. And we shouldnt be drinking cow’s milk but rather goat milk. Cows er calves have several more stomacks than we do and therefore it is easy for them to digest it. For humans and cats and dogs goat milk is closer to the milk for one -stomached mammals and therefore causes less mucus formation.
Maybe next you will stop advising people not to eat refined starches.
LOL, you crazy Mo Fo Mattie..
Hope your doggy liked that. I add Molasses to all the food I cook now to re mineralize it. Just half a teaspoon , no need to go mad but yes as you reminaralize, your food intake starts to go down too…
Anyway I like to do the milk thing after dinner, heating up the milk (gasp) and adding spices to it make a yummy sleepy time drink.
Molasses is the new superfood but be careful how many people you tell or David Wolfe will be selling it for 100 times the price !!
This is great. I gave up all my supplements about a month or so ago (yeah, like all 30 friggin pills I was taking every day–what the heck was I thinking?!). But I've been looking for a way to add minerals into my diet naturally. I've been going for liquid trace minerals, but you know it's hard to tell if that stuff is really decent quality or not. Gorging on fruit has been going so well for me, so why not throw some molasses in there as well?
Great second video. I'm going to go "accidentally" spill half a bottle of molasses in my milk right now…
Yeah, Wolfe is going to patent some "RAW Living Molasses" one of these days.
Liz – You closet supplorexic!!!
Gabriel – I just bought some white rice 3 hours ago.
Unfortunately Ray Peat isn't a fan of blackstrap molasses. I asked him about it a couple days ago and he replied "Although it's extremely rich in minerals, I think the intense heat used for concentrating it degrades the sugar into things that are likely to be allergens."
Not trying to rain on anybody's parade, just thought it should be mentioned in case some people were having some digestive problems with it.
The funny thing is, if I had encountered this as my first exposure to 180 health I'd probably have dismissed you as a quack. ((points finger) Quack!)
I can confirm that Halfasses is mighty tasty. I haven't made any mole-milk yet.
I would be extremely (Extremely!!) hesitant to reintroduce cane sugar (or any other refined sugar) into my diet however. The calories + complete lack of minerals, vitamins or nutrients is just a bad combination, and crowds out more nutrition foods from the menu.
Hey Matt, I think I might be able to work on a recipe for the first 180 food supplement. It's a "protein bar" made from dried fruit (cherries, banana, whatev), molasses and enough gelatin to make it a pleasant hardness. It's the perfect post-workout recovery bar. Good luck getting a cross-marketing agreement with Mark Sisson!
Matt,
I am confused. Can you explain why it's not true that starch digests into glucose?
by the way I always think it's funny how low-carbers will go on and on about the distinction between saturated fat and PUFAs, how all fat was demonized but really saturated fat is fine… but they can't make the same mental leap with carbs?
aww yeah, gotta love the white rice. I'd say coconut rice is a staple at my place. I've yet to try this sugar/molasses stuff out though as I can't get any milk worth buying conveniently in Toronto.
Matt, how to you cook those groats?
Hey Matt,
I appreciate the broadened scope of your recommendations. Wondering if you've changed your mind on the appropriateness of starch over sugar generally, since most human cultures are starch not sugar based, even when fruit is widely available.
Also, with the recent boostering of gelatin, big up on broth! See, WAPF isn't all bad- shellfish and molasses and eggs and raw milk and stock. You'll fit right in this year. :-)
Wow that was quick Matt.
You pretty much covered the point that I feel the strongest about – that molasses can be a good fortifying 'catch up'.
When you think of all the enzyme activity that is required for the big re-feed, a sub-optimal ph alone can make it very hard to work that load into something useful. Not to mention all the other dedicated benefits of a healthy stash of minerals.
Therefore, I think anyone about to set sail on the sea of RRARF would be wise to pack a few cases of the black stuff to bring them up to speed. Depending how far gone they are it could save them a lot of time and weight gain.
Nice touch with the "Rocket Sauce" although I now feel the need to search my bedroom for listening devices;)
Sugar isn't so bad now? Are you turning into a Peatophile?
Anyone know if molasses is available in Australia? Seems like more of an American thing…
Wow, three posts in such short order! Something's fueling your mojo.
I think Terpol was linking not a different molasses brand but jaggery, which is Indian palm sugar, and kind of similar in general feel.
Thanks for the laughs–hope rover wagged himself half-assed.
I was just writing about how although I'm on a 'recovery from black and white thinking' program, I love certain black and white foods–this would definitely be one of them. I really can't stand cow's milk but replace it (in my mind) for coconut milk and the concept is so good.
And then you bring up chocolate: is your thinking that as adrenals heal, the negative effects of chocolate become better tolerated like other things? (I love the blackest chocolate but it doesn't love my adrenals.)
Interesting that your success with fruit correlates with working out more, and the caveat about keeping sugars low while healing metabolism is important indeed. (I think I mentioned before that if I let myself restrict at all, eating fruit will bomb my blood sugar, and that the longer I don't fall back into restricting, the better that gets.)
On the other hand, you're approaching the fine line toward the 80-10-10 types, who almost seem to need to become exercise obsessed just to burn off the fruit–or is that a misconception?
There was a while there after we introduced raw milk where I was making my kids a "milk drink" every morning at breakfast — the recipe in the back of Ron Schmidt's _Untold Story of Raw Milk_. Cream, egg yolk, molasses, vanilla and raw milk.
YUM. I'm feeling a little drowsy here at 3 pm… maybe I'll see if a little halfasses perks me up.
Molasses also makes an excellent fertilizer for fruits and veggies.
Blackstrap molasses is the mojo :-)
I've been taking it for a month and a half and do feel the difference. My hair is pretty long and thick already but seems to be growing faster. Generic aches and pains are less. Reduced PMS and period cramps. I haven't been sleeping much but not tired and skin is clear except a couple spots here and there.
It could be a combination of overall thyroid functioning improving but I'm continuing the molasses with milk regime. Also,last winter my skin esp. on the legs was scaly and lizard like even with application of coconut oil and now it's smooth and I'm not using any moisturiser :-) I'm using the Plantation unsulphured organic blackstrap molasses.
My organic Plantation Molasses lists only 8% cal/mag but 20% iron for same serving, how can this be possible?
I keeo seeing references to Plantaion brand blackstrap molasses being organic but the bottle I bought at my health food store they were out of my regular brand) does not state anywhere on it that it is organic. I normally buy Tree of Life brand which states clearly that it is organic and the mineral levels seems to reflect that (much higher than the aforementioned brand) I have been taking 1 Tbsp straight every morning for 2 years now to control excessive blood loss due to a large uterine fibroid and it has literally saved my life. The Plantation brand did not work. Prior to discovering the miracles of blackstrap molasses I was facing hospitalization for blood transfusions because I was so anemic. Tree of Life ORGANIC unuslphered blackstrap molasses changed all of that. I learned about it at earthclinic.com a website for people to leave reviews and ask questions about natural remedies. Turmeric and Cayenne are more secret weapons no one should be without.
How do i get this stuff if i live in Denmark? Is there someplace where you can order it from somewhere in Europe, and be sure that the quality is okay?
"Switchel"/"Haymaker's Punch" are great. I make a kind of watered down version — I just put a small 'glug' or so of blackstrap molasses into a glass, then add a decent splash of coconut water vinegar (I heavily prefer the taste of coconut water vinegar to apple cider vinegar – but that's just me), swirl it around until the molasses is 'in solution,' and then fill the glass with water and stir it all up.
I think it's completely refreshing, especially when it's hot out. In Chinese medicine, the sour flavor is 'cooling' — makes sense, thinking of lemonade being so refreshing in the summer. Anyway, the vinegar/blackstrap mix really is great.
The only 'supplements' I've been taking lately are switchel, nigarisui (nigari fortified water), and a gelatin/sodium ascorbate drink I make. It's all about the whole foods ;D
Really though…all those things I just mentioned really have unique flavors, and to me they taste amazing, all in their own way(s).
I haven't tried making water kefir yet, but I bet that would be good with blackstrap molasses. I wonder what it does to the sugar composition?
P.S. About the sugar composition — just out of curiosity, not wondering obsessively about the health effects of that. Just to clarify ;D
Also, I want to try the halfasses :D For some reason I always get gas/indigestion/bloating whenever I have milk that I haven't made into kefir/yogurt/etc. Every time I drink raw milk fresh, the same thing happens. I used to drink pasteurized skim milk all the time and had no problems I can remember with that…maybe I spontaneously developed lactose intolerance or something along those lines.
Anyway, that does look great. I used to mix molasses with milk, but never tried it with half and half. And back in the day I was probably using skim milk with the molasses – what a shame :c WHERE IS THE RICHNESS???
I want to try making gummy bears. You know, you could probably use blackstrap molasses instead of flavored Jell-O packets or table sugar. I'd be pretty curious to see how that would taste.
You could probably even use half and half or something instead of water to make them. Of course, that could just end up being a monumental failure and/or waste of time, but then again, if you could get something close to an actually healthy spin-off of those gummi Coca-Cola candies, that would be pretty cool. I wonder if using kefir instead of just half and half would give it that 'fizz' flavor.
Anyway, yeah, thanks for the post, I enjoyed this :D
Brock – It'll have to be a "proline" bar.
You see it exactly how I see it. Eating calories without nutrients is a good way to go bankrupt. It feels good when you are getting all that great and metabolically-stimulating sugar from the white stuff, and that's probably what makes it so dangerous. Things that stimulate your metabolism but don't supply any nutrients are always a poor investment. But it could very well be that from a nutrient deficit standpoint that natural sugars play an important role in the healing process. I'm willing to consider it.
Rosenfelt – Thanks for that. No one should feel like they now have to get in their molasses even if they notice it's not going well. That's true of all foods.
Chris – I cook the crap out of those groats in water. 1-2 hours at a simmer. I do usually soak them overnight in water and rinse 'em off.
Tierney – Starch does digest primarily into glucose. Fructose has a "choose your own ending" kind of fate depending on the quantity ingested, glycogen storage capacity, exercise habits, metabolic rate, and many other factors. But fructose goes directly to the liver and is more effective for refueling liver glycogen.
I'm currently kinda thinkin about how the potentially most powerfull foods could be:
Coconut – Lots of readily available energy from MCTs in the "fat fuel channel"
Milk – Near perfect amino acid composition, lots of nutrients for a drink!
Blackstrap Molasses – MINERALS!, two-bonded energy
And somehow all of those things are very easily digested. The question right here is probably "do we need the fiber or do we not?".
JC
Rocket – Glad you are fumbling around for listening devices in the Rocket Sauce cue. Good to hear that my references are understood by at least someone.
Rob –
I just ate a dinner with rice, beans, and yams as my carbohydrates (2 out of 3 would make Peat gasp at the horrors of endotoxin and beta carotene! But hey, I did have me some gelatin, which is an interesting food that similarly makes up for a prior debt incurred by eating tons of muscle meat without broth – a modern habit).
I think it's important to understand that every human culture that had access to both starch and fruit ate both starch and fruit. None of them ate exclusively fruit. None of them ate exclusively starch. There are advantages to both. I would imagine as exercise level and intensity increases, the more the starch:sugar ratio tilts in favor of sugar – that's my experience with it. I never craved a baked potato after playing a double-header in 100 degree Tennessee summer heat as a teenager. It was a ritual to drink a quart of orange juice after the game. There's nothing on earth I wanted more. But either carb completely alone is probably suboptimal.
The only reason I would ever eat nothing but fruit as a carbohydrate would be if I needed to use my toes as an air-conditioner or am trying to be celibate – something your typical fruitarian will run into in fairly short order. Everyone probably has a general ratio that matches their physiology-du-jour and current lifestyle, and viewing all natural carbs as equally good is probably all one needs to remove any mental interference with the tastes that will lead us to that ratio naturally.
Tezza-
I have conditional love for Peat.
In Australia just mix vegemite with corn syrup and voila!! You got molasses!
I tried some molasses in some milk for the first time a few days ago and wasn't too impressed. I think I got a little excited and was pretty close to a 1:1 ratio. It was a little too stout. I'll ratchet it back a little next time.
I have the Tree of Life brand and noticed the mineral amounts are pretty much opposite of the rabbit's.
Calcium 15%
Iron 20%
Magnesium 10%
Ela –
I'm firing out posts in rapid fire mostly because I'm no longer going to blog at the other sites but just one site from now on (which will hopefully migrate from here to the main http://www.180degreehealth.com domain before summer). So instead of a couple of posts per week plus an occasional food post you get 'em all stacked up here. Hopefully I'll keep doing 3-5 per week for a while. I am particularly mojo-fied right now though.
I don't think the 80-10-10 ers need to do tons of exercise to burn off the carbs. I can eat 4,000 calories of only fruit and greens per day and do no exercise and melt away like dark chocolate in the hot sun. Maintaining 165-170 pounds of muscle mass on a fruitarian diet would be difficult. And when that muscle mass starts to dissolve the whole body starts to break down, taking fat with it.
I think one of the keys for them is that eating so many carbs allows them to burn glucose instead of fat for endurance activity – allowing them to perform much faster. I had great endurance on a high fat diet, but no speed because my body was burning mostly fat instead of carbohdyrate – which will get you there, just much more slowly.
But there's no question that the ultimate athlete diet is always going to be pretty carb heavy. I don't think Graham's ideas on physical performance are that far off, particularly for endurance sports where having very litte lean body mass is advantageous. It's the "raw" and "vegan" provisions that are probably the main reasons his followers get into trouble on a long-term basis, and not the macronutrient ratios which are very common all over Asia and Africa and in other primate species.
JC-
I think most people miss the boat on fiber. Fiber fermentation yields the king of all fatty acids that make MCT's look like B grade crapola. MCT's are great because their chain length is shorter, but the short chain fats are even more powerful, especially slurped up right into the gut wall. Butyric acid actually facilitates the transport of T3 into the mitochondria to stimulate cellular energy production. Like me, it's kind of a big deal :)
Propionic acid is powerfully insulin sensitizing.
Jib –
I've had a lemonade made with unrefined sugar and molasses too. Got sick of it pretty quick, but it was good while it lasted.
Halfasses –
It's MUCH better with half n' half than milk for some reason.
Plantation-
Yeah, I never buy that brand. Like I said, maybe I'm deluding myself into believing the Brer Rabbit could really be that different based on its label, but that's how I roll.
Kasper –
Sheila just got some in Denmark. She said it was expensive and it may not even be good. You might just have to sit there being all Denmarky and miss out on what all the cool kids are doing.
I guess it's time to get the cream separator out again then.
I half assed and I liked it. Some articles say get 'organic' molasses cuz it can be highly pestisized. Do you think that's B.S. The Brer isn't organic, but the organic stuff has lower %cal/mag and higher iron. Even so, does this form of iron pose any dangers? -susan
Matt:
I'm glad to see you working so much on all of these things. Your willingness to re-examine your ideas is really a valuable thing; pursuit of truth is always superior to the pursuit of an 'agenda.' I also think it opens the door to more exponential progress, which is really exciting.
I almost was going to delete this because I know this is your passion and lately it seems like you're on a roll, so it might not be an appropriate time to mention it. I did want to encourage you, though. We can all know how smart we are and that what we're doing is worthwhile and that we have something to offer to the world, but I do believe in getting validation from other people.
Thanks for all the hard work. I really enjoy keeping up with your blog. You probably already know you're making a big difference in a lot of people's lives but what can it hurt to hear it from one more person, you know?
Keep it up :D Just coming from someone who believes in the importance of people believing in each other. From an independent artist to an independent researcher, you could say.
And now, on with the adventure ;)
Thanks, Matt–that would be great if the posts come through on a single blog, especially one where you can subscribe to the comments as opposed to having to check back manually or miss the boat. It's great to be on a roll.
Yeah, that's a good distinction between the imperative for carb-heavy diets for athletes (my biggest hesitation about plunging into the low-carb abyss was that I didn't know of any athletes who throve on it, but I managed to find some evidence to send me over the edge) versus carb-heavy diets being a good idea for regular mortals. I also _love_ what you're emphasizing about the short-chain fats from fibers: that's one of the biggest missing pieces, I feel.
Speaking of regular mortals, since I seem to be in a parenthetical mood, I used to chef for David Wolfe's events, where many refer to themselves as 'superheroes.' Getting together with my husband, who eats everything and performs physical feats on a regular basis made me think that maybe the latter was more 'heroic' than someone on a very restricted and rarefied diet. I still go back and forth but I know what you would say.
I'm surprised that you buy what the nutritional information says. Like you said yourself, hard to put much stock in that. I seem to remember thinking that the brer rabbit was the least tasty molasses (and I love molasses)–would be curious to find out what the variables are that yield those different numbers on different labels.
And I still want to know what you think about chocolate (whether adrenals can learn eventually to handle it again)!
Kasper & Sheila –
Here is a link to a distributor in Denmark for Meridian Organic Blackstrap Molasses.
http://vivaorganicimport.com/meridian/sirup/m_rk_sirup.htm
It's the same stuff that I buy in the UK and is very good.
Molasses is good in gingerbread, but I can't really imagine it's cook in milk. I mean, the first time I opened a jar of molasses the aroma knocked the breath out of me! Dang it was strong!
My curiosity is piqued though…I may try it yet, or better get my husband to do it first :)
oops, 'cook' should say 'good'
Just wanted to say I've really been enjoying these last few posts, Matty. And so happy about the turn-around on fruit. It's my favorite thing in the world and it never made sense that organic whole fruits (e.g. not refined unbound fructose) is "bad for you."
As a big fan of molasses in the past, and as I'm very familiar with jaggery — I would love to see you also experiment with that and other similar coconut palm sugars ("wet", that is non-crystalized.)
"Unfortunately Ray Peat isn't a fan of blackstrap molasses. I asked him about it a couple days ago and he replied "Although it's extremely rich in minerals, I think the intense heat used for concentrating it degrades the sugar into things that are likely to be allergens.""
That's retarded. Molasses is made from the same process that creates the refined sugar Peat touts so highly. They're the two products of the same process, so if his sugar (in ice cream) isn't an allergen, how can the sugars left in the molasses be problematic?
—
Re: Oat Groats – I make them in my Zojirushi rice cooker. A good rice cooker is a great investment for anyone who wants to cook whole grains and porridges. Mine has a dozen settings and a timer, so I can set it the night before, it soaks overnight (Sally Fallon approved) and cooks in the morning right when I wake up. So convenient.
—-
Matt said:
"Like me, it's kind of a big deal :)"
You can't be that big a deal. You sell e-books. If you were a big deal your books would be leatherbound and your apartment would smell of rich mahogany.
I grew up w black strap in milk. It never occurred to me that it might make a nice iced 'tea' type drink. I'll have to give it a try.
I seem to need the minerals.
Thanks for the reminder.
Good tip! I made a bowl of lightly toasted shredded coconut, gelatin, guava juice, a banana and the molasses. That's my oatmeal substitute, not perfect but I'll take it.
I've been drinking molasses milk for decades. My mom started me on it when I was a kid.
I think the best way to understand the difference between molasses and sugar is that the refining process is optimized to divert most of the sucrose to the crystallization side. Molasses is not very sweet as a result. So whatever evil sucrose may be responsible for is mostly absent in molasses. And of course all the nutrients are diverted to the molasses.
I think the main problem with fructose is that it is mis-classified as a carb. It's clearly a carb outside the body, but in the body it's converted to fat.
There are numerous studies in pubmed on this topic now.
Its sad to see people avoid fat, but eat lots of sugar half of which is mostly converted to fat!
@Stabby, um…why not just have…oatmeal? With molasses or whatever on top. Seems a bit easier, I would think.
You know Matt, I'm half tempted to give this a try myself over the next few weeks before you publish your conclusions. By "this" I'm referring to consumption of sugar in general. You see, I have a bit of a life long sugar intolerance. Any time I eat even one apple I get horrendous gas, I gain weight, and have terrible moods swings. I'm talking intense anger to self loathing depression in the span of less than an hour, something I've dealt with for most of my 23 years of living. Of course, as a child I was "normal" and happy prior to my Grandma overfeeding me with processed sugar items. I sure do love my KitKat. Give me a break, indeed.
In the last 6 months of "Matt Stone-ing it" I've found that my reaction to sugar has improved, albeit minimally. Even if I eat a large amount of yams, in my case usually 2 pounds or so because I find them oh so yumyum, the sugar content of those are enough to set off my mood swings. I can tolerate short term blubber gain and horrific gas, but the whole angsty BS is what has kept me from challenging sugar simply because I'm enjoying having no mood problems for the first time in over a decade. I don't know about you, but I think talking to girls without becoming an uptight weirdo is kinda cool.
However, I think it's time to shake things up a bit. HEIL SCIENCE!
I've tried eating blackstrap molasses anhd OMG they taste so disgusting! Does the brand that you use, Matt, not taste awful?
eat me boys… eat me!!!!
troy
If I were to say elevate my heart rate up to 100-155 beats a minute first thing in the morning and keep it at atleast 100 for a couple hours will my body be able to convert more sugarcane to carbohydrate?
Do you also add sugarcane by itself, not just the sugarcane molasses? If so do you feel it's healthy to do this because you eat a balanced diet? Do you do it because it both improves the flavor and fuels your workouts as a pre, peri, and postworkout drink?
Scott Abel says after an exhaustive anaerobic workout your body can only refuel 5% glycogen stores every hour, and that it takes 20 hours for them to become completely open. A person that has developed high anaerobic endurance can store 15g of carbohydrate per a kilogram of bodyweight. So I can store a little over 1000g, 8 pounds of glycogen, and can only refuel with 58g every hour post workout.
I've read you want 7.5g of 100% bioavailable magnesium per a pound of lean body mass for three months and want to maintain at 4.5g per a pound of lean body mass for the rest of your life though I regret I can't find the source that says that anymore. Do you believe in the dietary reference intake instead? 4 tblspns of your brand contains 400mg of magnesium. Not bad considering 72 oz of it costs $26 at http://www.amazon.com Is there any concern for calcium stones with blackstrap molasses, especially with higher intakes? If so how can I prevent calcium stones? Here's a good article on why what type of magnesium you supplement with is important, and why whole food sources are the best way to go:
http://www.ancient-minerals.com/magnesium-chloride/
What do you think of dextrose and maltodextrin as far as refined carbonydrates go. Is it superior or inferior to regular sugarcane and sucrose. Is it better or worse to have for pre and peri workout nutrition? For the purpose of converting to a higher percentage of carbohydrate and less as fat. Those are both starches, but they are as easy to break down as simple carbohydrates versus whole food starches because their structure is as simple as simple carbohydrates structure. Are those starches easier on the blood sugar and health than refined simple carbohydrates?
Hey Tezza,
I bought some Australian grown molasses at Coles in Melbourne. I had to ask the staff to help me find it as it was hidden away. There was only one brand on the shelf, even though it was a big store. I only bought it for a recipe which didn't turn out. Yuck! It's obviously an acquired taste. I think it kind of tastes like dutch licorice.
And no, Matt I don't think vegemite with corn syrup would be the same! Vegemite (yeast extract) is high in B vitamins and actually tastes nice!
Paul Ericson,
I haven't seen any study that shows a fattening effect of sucrose on humans. Can you show me a few of those studies you are talking about?
to jib and matt,
I thought the same thing as you jib when I first read this post. I'm glad that ideas and mentalities are up for change and debate and that dietary dogma doesn't reign free.
Anonymous:
"Any time I eat even one apple I get horrendous gas…. a large amount of yams… etc"
Just a shot in the dark, but it sounds like it's a problem with bacteria and your inability to digest certain substances, rather than sugar. Apples and yams may be especially problematic because of their fiber, and the sugar alcohol sorbitol in the apples is largely indigestible. Sorbitol is largely what makes prunes known as a laxative.
On the other hand, I know there's such thing as fructose malabsorption. But I seem to remember reading that fructose is absorbed better when combined with glucose. If you do have a problem with fructose, and not just fiber and sugar alcohols, I wonder if you could better tolerate sucrose instead of HFCS, where the fructose is free. (Relating to this post, there is minimal free fructose in molasses. It is mostly sucrose.)
If I'm going to play doctor, I'd also suggest lots of probiotics, perhaps HCl pills to boost stomach acid, and of course hypothyroidism is blamed for pretty much everything.
"Bacterial overgrowth in the small intestine can be caused by hypothyroidism (Lauritano, et al., 2007), and the substances produced by these bacteria can damage the lining of the small intestine, causing the loss of lactase enzymes (Walshe, et al., 1990)."
http://raypeat.com/articles/articles/milk.shtml
Daniel Holt:
"Is there any concern for calcium stones with blackstrap molasses"
According to Peat, calcium stones form as a consequence of too little calcium, not to much. Oddly. Also I wonder if fluoride has anything to do with it.
http://raypeat.com/articles/articles/calcium.shtml
Brock-
The refined sugar crystallizes precisely because it is pure, and not the things that Peat says might be byproducts. I think he's talking about AGEs, or the same things that form when you char meat. But a lot of people like their meat charred. It occurred to me that charcoal is used as a filter for toxins, like in your water filter. We might like it for that reason, just like certain monkeys eat charcoal from human campsites in order to cure their indigestion.
I'm surprised that Peat didn't comment on the iron content of molasses, if I have to nitpick.
So there are reasons why molasses might be good, and reasons why it might not be. As always, I would follow both feelings and tradition. If you feel like having molasses, then go for it; and if you don't, it's not like you have to. Matt has apologetically chosen the absolute highest mineral source of sugar there is in introducing fructose to the 180 lifestyle, but please note that it's the sugar that is the attraction. Molasses is still mostly sucrose, despite what one person said. He also has made a great honey-based barbecue sauce, and honey has pretty much no minerals (or vitamins). It's pure sugar.
———
To sum up, I'm really happy Matt's come around to sugar. For some reason, I really like soda– helps to digest during and after meals. One of the criticisms of soda is that the phosphoric acid will dissolve nails, teeth, etc. Well, so would stomach acid. This is good for digestion. And the carbonation seems good too. The whole practice of carbonating soda started because it was believed that carbonated water was healthy.
The only thing is, I wish I didn't have to worry about fluoride, mercury, lead, and so on in commercial soda. (I also prefer to have no caffeine.) And also, I wish soda wasn't SO nutrient deficient. So it might be good to get a home water carbonator ($100-$200), and then– perhaps we can have molasses soda! To (further) acidify it, fruit juice would probably be good, but, Peat doesn't recommend combining vitamin C with iron, as it enhances its absorption. Also I've noticed that I like phosphoric acid in soda rather than citric acid, so, I'm not sure what to think.
(http://raypeat.com/articles/articles/iron-dangers.shtml)
@Kasper:
I'm from Germany and I just bought a can of molasses from a "Reformhaus". I don't know if there's anything similar in Denmark, it's a shop for all kinds of organig foods and natural health products and stuff like that.
@Mr. Stone:
I think you once said that it might be better to eat fruit/sugar on it's own and make it a fruit only meal. Do you still think that's true or do you think that having a normal starch-centered breakfast with some protein and fat for example with some fruit/molasses is totally fine?
@Molasses & Milk:
What are the rough ratios to use for adding molasses to milk? Never ever used that stuff in my life and I don't really care about trial & error.
Jared: Interesting thoughts on charred meat. I've often wondered why some people (like my husband) really like their steak insanely well done. Maybe you're on to something.
madMUHHH –
I personally go for a 17ml tablespoon dissolved in about a 500ml glass of warm water or milk.
If the milk is cold it's easier to dissolve it in a little warm water first then top up with milk.
Dosage is a very personal thing though, you may feel like you want more than that for a short while then lose your appetite for it a bit like I did. I cut back from an initial 3 tbsp's to 2 and occasionally just 1.
Nice post. Great vids, the second one is hilarious! Does anyone know about Carob Molasses/Syrup and how it compares to this stuff?
Also gotta second Rockets recommendation for the meridan blackstrap and also worth noting for those in the UK Blackstrap Molasses goes by the name of Black Treacle…..
Hi MATT
i am currently doing rrarf i am 18 years old and i have a pretty serious acne problem usually a play basketball(not for at least 2 months because the season here is finished and i will start playing again or lifting weitghts for vertical jump in like 1 month after i finish overfeeding )
and i am not fat but i have some belly i am also very tall 6"5 inches (196 cm) and i think i am still growing alot
i always used to eat lots of chocolate(unfortunatley this included snikeres ecc) and tryed to restric carb
but never cuold do it for more than a day(for a very good reason like u explain) alwyas had sweet toot very sweet
in the first tree days i still had to take some chocolate yesterday because the carving was too high LOL
do u suggest me to go high startch or go high evrything??
my temparture in the mroning is 96.5 F
any sugesstions wuold be appreciated
Tezza,
I was buying blackstrap in Health food stores in Oz in the 70's. They probably have decent brands compared to Coles.
Cheers mate.
Jagrati
Blackstrap molasses isn't black treacle as far as I am aware.
Black treacle (sometimes called dark molasses) is part molasses and part partially inverted refiners sugar in a 50:50 ratio.
Robert
Jared Bond-
I never thought of that and personally don't think that's my problem mostly because I can eat 70% of my calories from russet potatoes for 2-3 weeks and never experience any issues. However, that may be part of it. I just ate a bunch of apples and several spoonfuls of straight molasses and so far I feel energetic and super clearheaded much as I did when I was a raw vegan.
I'd much rather not waste my money on Probiotics as I'm a firm believer that everything I need to accomplish can be done via food. My mindset is; if a caveman was healthy eating foods from the earth, why can't I?
molasses is yummy. I just ate 3 large spoon fulls of it. On a side note, I have not used toothpaste in nearly a year (I use water and a toothbrush) so if anyone's teeth is going to fall out it would be mine. My mom is a dental hygienist and cleans my teeth, with love, twice yearly. We have an unspoken bet going on about my no toothpaste experiment and how it'll affect my dental health. So far so good.
Chris–carob molasses, date syrup, pomegranate molasses are all similar things, and they're all from the middle east/Mediterranean area (traditional foods for me!) Basically, they are concentrates of the sugars in the foods mentioned, and don't contain any sugarcane ingredients. In my experience, they don't contain any 'other' ingredients: are simply concentrates.
I'm guessing that their nutrient profiles would mirror the whole food, so the carob molasses might well be high in calcium, for example. If you've ever eaten fresh carob from the pod, it tastes slightly more like that (but concentrated, of course) than like the powder. Sweet and intense!
Thanks Ela. Good to know!
@ Robert – its not always the case with black treacle as the real deal should just be molasses, this is the one I sometimes buy http://tinyurl.com/4hl4k55 usually though I just go for the Meridan Blackstrap Molasses. They taste identical though…..
MATT-
For your information we can be all Denmarky AND have our molasses too, so SHUT UP ;-P
KASPER-
Jeg bestilte noget fra England (same m?rke som Rocket refererer til) Selve molassen er ikke dyr men sendingen koster en del pga v?gten (det s?lges i glas)
Det m?rke (MERIDIAN) som Rocket har linket til er det samme m?rke jeg fik fra England. Vidste ikke man kunne f? det i DK. Fremover vil jeg bestille det fra den danske side.
ROCKET-
Thank you for the link -your a God sent!
Brock-
The semi-rotten coconut I just cracked open smells a little bit like mohagany.
Anonymous-
"I don't know about you, but I think talking to girls without becoming an uptight weirdo is kinda cool."
I wouldn't know!!! Ha ha.
My various sugar experiences have definitely been interesting. I know the negative symptoms that you speak of. For me, when I have sweets I really have to go big on them. Just having a little "taste" is more likely to trigger problems than eating to fullness of a giant platter of fruit in the morning. Sucrose and fruits like bananas and oranges seem to be the least aggravating. Apples are the worst.
Dan-
I'm aware that Abel states this. I eat lots of carbs at other times during the day as well, but emphasize it in the morning and peri-workouts when it seems most likely to become glycogen and less likely to, as Paul mentioned by looking at some studies out of context – turn to fat.
I decided to go carb bonkers with the same line of thinking about the amount of glycogen an elite athlete can store – a certain amount of carbohydrate per kilogram of lean body mass. I think with a significant amount of hard training it would be easy to start to run at a glycogen deficit if you didn't eat carbs pretty aggressively.
Madmuhhh-
Try it and see. I still don't like mixing a lot of fruit with other foods. When I was eating lots of bananas with oatmeal and milk for instance my teeth started to get quite sore. Not so when I eat them in isolation.
You can always eat a bunch of fruit and still have a normal breakfast an hour or two later. Depends on your schedule I guess.
Anonymous:
"I'd much rather not waste my money on Probiotics as I'm a firm believer that everything I need to accomplish can be done via food. My mindset is; if a caveman was healthy eating foods from the earth, why can't I?"
Gut bacteria is first passed down to a baby through the mother's breastmilk. If your mother's bacteria was off, or worse, you were formula fed, this can set you up for a lifelong problem (though Matt seems to be doing alright, gut-flora-wise). There are two things different about our modern society that we may need to compensate for. One, there are all kinds of things that mess with gut flora– from antibiotics to mercury fillings (though I have heard that candida may be a protective response against mercury). Two, we do not have a steady supply of probiotics in foods, as our ancestors did. Before refrigeration, most things used to be stored by fermenting them, which were protected by good bacteria.
I wasn't just suggesting probiotic pills, which can be quite expensive. (If you only try just one, the Garden of Life "Primal Defense Ultra Formula" is recommended, as it has "soil bacteria" instead of ones commonly found in yogurt. A search on Google shows one available for $21.) I was also just suggesting food sources of probiotics, such as yogurt, Bubbies sauerkraut or pickles, kombucha, and coconut water kefir, now available in Whole Foods. I don't suggest you eat these religiously, but it wouldn't hurt to have them once in a while.
Ray Peat has also mentioned that antibiotics often have beneficial effects. Perhaps a day of antibiotics would be good before taking the probiotics. (I don't believe in the "if you use antibiotics, it must be for 7-10 days, or else you're breeding resistant bacteria" thing. But that's just me.) You can experiment with anti-fungals too, but I would never recommend long-term.
But, if we believe that hypothyroidism can be responsible for bacterial overgrowth (as is a suspected cause of artery plagues), then Matt's program of not starving yourself should help too.
Anyways, glad to hear you're tolerating molasses just fine.
As for toothpaste, I too find it funny that I haven't used fluoride in years, yet the dentist said my teeth and gums look better than ever. Though, it's not necessary to go full caveman. I myself use non-fluoride Tom's of Maine, with xylitol and baking soda in it. I've found it works exceptionally well with IPSAB tooth powder sprinkled on top, which is mostly just powdered salt.
I'd also just like to point out another thing about fructose. I've done research on fructose and found, to my dismay, that it definitely does raise LDL, and lower HDL, which is bad news according to everyone. …Everyone except Ray Peat of course! Peat points out that, while the popularly recommend ratio is associated with less heart attacks, it's also associated with more cancer. Peat says LDL is "extremely good because it is used as the source for producing progesterone and DHEA". (PMS to Menopause, p.10) It appears there are different sizes of LDL particles, which may cause (or be caused) by different things, and are not measured in these studies.
"Smaller lipoprotein particles have a greater surface area exposed to the oxidative factors in the serum, and so are more rapidly degraded into toxic substances. People with larger LDL particles are remarkably resistant to heart disease, and the drug companies are looking for a way to turn their lipoproteins into products. But the conditions that govern the size of the LDL particles are physically and chemically reasonable, and are causing confusion among the doctrinaire."
http://raypeat.com/articles/articles/cholesterol-longevity.shtml
As for uric acid: Like cholesterol, elevated uric acid may not be a problem, but a protective response to a problem. Uric acid is both a stimulant and anti-oxidant. In this light, cravings for sugar may be further justified. In reviewing the research, I've found that the concentration of uric acid required in order to crystallize, in order to cause gout, is variable from person to person. The crystallization may occur due to other factors.
My grandfather (born in 1st decade of the 20th century & passed away years ago) told my mother during her pregnancy with me to eat molasses. As I've learned more about molasses, I can see why it might do a body good! Good old timey advice that might have been passed around at one time….
Tezza,
Get on to Sprial Foods in Melbourne – they do an organic blackstrap. It's available in a 20lt bucket and ends up costing almost nothing per jar equivalent!
Otherwise Merlose do a good one. One other brand which I can't rcall do a good one, as well.
Jared Bond said: "Gut bacteria is first passed down to a baby through the mother's breastmilk."
My understanding is that it's first passed on in the vaginal canal, no?
I've heard from numerous sources that babies are born sterile, with no bacteria in their digestive tract. It does seem weird that bacteria would be in breastmilk, but this goes with the idea that our entire bodies contain bacteria and we live in synergy with them, provided the body has the right environment and temperature for our own cells to thrive.
@ Jared Bond
Babies are born sterile. They are exposed to their first bacteria in the vaginal canal and from the external environment. Same with breast milk, it is sterile but the baby does get bacteria from the mother's skin during contact while breastfeeding. Our bodies do live in harmony with microbes, but not in the internal systems. If you have a weak immune system and you get a cut, the normal staph bacteria on your skin can cause a massive infection because that particular bacteria is only suited for being on our skin. The digestive tract is technically external because it is "outside" the body if you think about it (like the inside of a pipe, but with a few sphincters here and there).
"I don't believe in the "if you use antibiotics, it must be for 7-10 days, or else you're breeding resistant bacteria" thing. But that's just me."
You should believe that. Using antibiotics creates quick evolution on a small scale environment. The bacteria that are most resistant to the antibiotic are slower to die off. If they are never killed, they quickly reproduce and soon all of that particular bacteria are more resistant. Antibiotics should be taken for a longer period to ensure that all bacteria, especially the most resistant, are killed. Of course, this means nothing to a healthy person. I have not taken any antibiotics since I was a kid and I hope to never take any again. Doctors have caused this problem by giving people who have colds (caused by viruses) antibiotics, so a lot of people are now stuck with bacteria that have high resistance to common antibiotics. Ah, modern health care serving us again.
Swede
Matt AND Jared Bond: Yeah my reaction today with sugar was pretty atypical. Might be because i ate the hell out of it rather than teasing myself. don't really know. what i do know is that i feel a little sleepier than normal, i feel "fatter", and i did get irritable for a couple hours followed by me feeling kinda guilty for being crabby, but no where near what it was last time i tried (about a month ago). speaking of sore teeth, i definitely got that going on but it disappeared shortly after i ate some potatoes and ground beef.
anyways, i'll let you fellas know if my penis gains weight or something over the next 13 days.
(What's with the disappearing comments everyone keeps mentioning?) I can't find the comment now linking to the Ray Peat article on the evils of carrageenan–was it from Jared?
A serious bummer to me, as I regularly use whole irish moss (soaked many times and blended into a gel): has been my main culinary replacement for flax and chia! I want to suspect that the whole food is ok and the additive derivative is problematic, but he seems to be inveighing against the whole class of polysaccharides, which all my other reading suggests to be super-healthy.
Matt–I don't know about 'Mohagony' but rotten coconut is one of the worst smells… I have a classic old photo from HI days on facebook, topless but for the coconuts, covered in rotten coconut spray after whacking open a dozen to get six…
I just found out that glycogen can't be synthesised in the absence of potassium.
It all adds up.
If a minerally deficient person eats lots of empty high carb food it just goes straight Into fat cells accompanied by lack of energy low thyroid symptoms etc.
Furnish the body with all the minerals it needs particularly potassium and ingested carbs are easily converted into glycogen resulting in increased energy, reduced fat storage etc.
It's no coincidence that a bananas sweetness is only matched by it's potassium content.
I've spent the last couple of mornings loading up on glycogen – sweet coffee's, bananas, OJ and I feel really good. If I'd done this a year ago I would have felt like junk.
Oh yeah, I also found out that sugar cane's roots go down about 15 feet into the ground.
No wonder a glass of jockstrap halfasses is so mineral dense.
I'm testing this carb loading thing as well just adding a morning drink to my standard eating routine, I don't really have low energy or symptoms of hypometabolism even though I've been fasting till lunch for almost a year now since going of the rrarf, but always curious to see if one can go higher. When I originally did the RRARF, I did get my morning basal temp up to the coveted 98.2F and even quite a bit beyond, but I never did feel like that description of the "adrenal type" with boundless spontaneous energy. Mostly I was just very, very warm.
Day 1 was the best so far, I had a smoothie consisting of 4 oranges, 4 bananas, 250g strawberries, 125g of molasses and half a liter of whole milk in the morning, approx 300g of carbs ingested in 5 minutes. I had amazing energy and warmth all throughout the morning, just basically flying off the ground with each step and feeling a lot more social than usual, after lunch my energy tapered off to pretty much like normal.
Every day after that though (day 4 now) I've been getting very tired after the carbo loading and just want to go back to bed, today I even got hungry very quickly after the load, maybe connected to spending all day yesterday binging on carbs? I'm still getting a lot of heat production throughout the day from these loads.
I also started a regular exercise program a few days prior to this, just a few sets of weightlifting, 60-70 kettlebell swings and 6-7 interval sprints 2-3 times per week, not sure how that is impacting on my hunger for carbs, I've gained like 6 pounds since I started doing the sprints, but hard to tell if I've gained any fat or not. How long have people been doing this carb loading stuff and how long until you started to feel unanimously that it was doing you good?
Ela,
Just go to Ray Peats site and down the left hand column you'll find a search function for his site. It gives about 6 hits from dfferent articles.
Robert
Oh I just re-read your comment. Maybe you weren't actually asking for links to Ray Peat. Sorry, only just got up – still a bit groggy.
Robert
Thanks to everyone who gave suggestions – found a supplier for Melrose blackbrastrap molearses. I suppose if I get desperate I can always substitute Vegemite and HFCS… no, on second thoughts I'll never get THAT desperate. Although pouring a mixture of Vegemite, HFCS, and milk onto your porridge would give it an … interesting … flavour.
Hey Matt,
Despite all the research that I have read on fructose, I've always been skeptical that fructose in it's natural form (fruit) can cause problems when the person is already healthy. I eat animal fats, potatoes, meat, fermented dairy, and veggies to satiety and I think that I might start incorporating your idea of having some fruit first thing in the morning and then have my usual breakfast later on.
My question is around body fat. As I think that you generally ascribe to the body fat set point theory, what would you say is the range that the body wants to be at without forcing it? I would guess 10-15% for a male for example and anything under that would require conscious calorie restriction. On the low end of that range, most guys shouldn't have much, if any, central adiposity and enough leaness to look good but not be shredded. I'd be curious to hear your thoughts and if your body composition has fallen in line with this theory over the years of your experiments.
Thanks
I have results from a little experiment I did. I thought I'd just drop this in for whoever is reading the thread. You might find it interesting.
Last week I bought a 5 lb. bag of fresh wheat berries. I've never had them before, and (this is a comment on our modern world) I realized I've never even seen them before.
On Thursday and Friday I cooked them whole in the rice cooker for a morning breakfast cereal. I added butter, cream and molasses. I also had a glass of milk.
On Saturday I ground the exact same amount of the wheat berries into flour and made pancakes, with milk, coconut oil, butter and an egg. The only differences between the two recipes were (1) swap out cream for coconut oil, and (2) the addition of 1 egg to the pancakes (and some baking soda). All other portions were the same.
The difference in satiety between the two meals was significant, considering how similar they were. On both mornings I had the whole wheat berries for breakfast I was hungry by 10 AM, and hungry enough by 11 AM that I couldn't wait for lunch any longer. I ended up eating several bacon cheese burgers to get my hunger under control.
On Saturday however I wasn't hungry at all. I also felt more mentally alert and physically energetic. On Thursday and Friday I was just sitting at my desk and didn't feel tired, but I wasn't fidgeting either. On Saturday though I was fidgeting while driving, and then I arrived at a city park for a toddler birthday party. Chasing 2-year-olds around a park is usually pretty tiring for most people, but I didn't feel tired at all the entire time and was perfectly mentally alert on the drive home too (it was a long drive). I wasn't even peckish until 1 AM, and then just had a fourth pancake leftover from breakfast and that kept me going until 3 PM when we got home.
This makes me think about the food preparation and fermentation methods of pre-modern peoples, and why they may have done what they did. We know from several examples that fermentation isn't strictly necessary (I don't think anyone in Asia ferments the greater part of their rice, and we have many examples of quick-bread staples throughout history) for nutritional purposes, but many did it anyway. Why all the sourdough and poi? I think the answer is two-fold.
One, some sort of processing is necessary to really maximize energy and nutrient extraction. Mix it with a bit of water and some sort of fermentation is almost unavoidable. Maybe they fermented it in certain (acceptable) ways just to prevent it from fermenting in other ways (aka, spoiling).
Two, fermented foods are preserved for much longer than non-fermented foods. Especially if you an keep them protected from oxygen exposure. In a world without refrigeration that's no small benefit.
Any nutritional benefit may have simply been a bonus.
You know, with all this talk about fructose and that 101 year old alcoholic makes me wonder where the line really is for what's considered "good for us". it seems to me that as long as it naturally contains some amount of vitamins and nutrients, perhaps some way to help it move along the digestive tract (be it fat or fiber), our bodies can handle anything. The only people who are already unhealthy are the ones who have problems. domino effect like wut. it's interesting to me because almost everything in nature has a beneficial effect on the human body. i wouldn't be surprised if in a few years Matt starts advocating smoking and cocaine haha. how nutritious is beer and wine? i haven't drank in a good 9 months and, as a fan of beer, Buster makes me want to drink again, at least casually.
also, blackstrap seems to indeed be very rich in minerals. i've been eating several spoonfuls of it with every meal for the past 2 days and have developed symptoms very similar to, albeit far milder, one time when i accidentally OD'd on magnesium. had crazy aches all over my body, was on the toilet a lot, and in general felt like hell. i helped alleviate my symptoms at the time by taking a tums to even out the calcium/magnesium ratio. i took a tums an hour ago and feel much better. take that for what you will.
Matt, you said: It's the "raw" and "vegan" provisions that are probably the main reasons his followers get into trouble on a long-term basis, and not the macronutrient ratios which are very common all over Asia and Africa and in other primate species." Yet apes, as I understand, are hindgut fermenters, so a very big part, or most of their energy comes from fat, differently to what happens to a human eating a very high carb diet. Just wanted to keep that clear.
You should try making Indian Pudding.
a la Julia Child: http://fallenmonk.blogspot.com/2007/04/indian-pudding.html
I was always afraid to try it because of sugar/health concerns.
Ela:
"(What's with the disappearing comments everyone keeps mentioning?) I can't find the comment now linking to the Ray Peat article on the evils of carrageenan–was it from Jared?"
Yeah, it was that comment that disappeared twice. Maybe Matt didn't like what I said? :(
My basic point was that I don't think sugar in any way causes acne, which is a common belief.
Swede:
"Babies are born sterile. They are exposed to their first bacteria in the vaginal canal and from the external environment. …"
"Our bodies do live in harmony with microbes, but not in the internal systems."
I thought I got the idea that breastmilk does have bacteria from Natasha Campbell-McBride, but I couldn't find a direct quote. She does say it "promotes the process of populating the gut wall with appropriate bacteria", but she remains ambiguous. What I was also thinking of is what they say to promote raw milk. In pasteurizing milk, they destroy the bacteria naturally in the milk, leaving it open to potentially more harmful kinds taking root, even if we can't taste them yet.
The idea that microbes live everywhere within us came from Nance Appleton's "Rethinking Pasteur's Germ Theory". Pg. 44:
"Bechamp continued other experiments with different media. His research showed that throughout the cells of living organisms there are much smaller units– and there are millions of them. These ?micro?zymas? are present in cells in the bloodstream, in plants, in every liv?ing thing. They organize and nourish all the cells of life forms at the molecular level. They are elementary units in all living struc’tures, as well as the controlling factor in the cells of all animal and plant life.
Although usually healthy, microzymas can develop into disease?-producing bacteria, viruses, and fungus that can lead to chronic and degenerative illness. Bechamp believed these little bodies were ?pleomorphic?, changing form continually when they were both healthy and diseased. According to the scientific theory of pleo?morphism, bacteria change and take on multiple forms during a sin?gle life cycle. In much the same way as a caterpillar grows into a butterfly or a tadpole develops into a frog, the microzymas can change both form and function."
(P.S.- use ReadIris to scan in text from a book!)
Interestingly, Wikipedia does not have an entry on microzymas.
Bechamp believed that microzymas were bacteria in their dormant state. He found microzymas living in "1,000 year old" rocks that were the same as in the human body. Microzymas existed in all organs of the human, and even a developing fetus.
Ray Peat also mentioned a man who grew cartilage from cells of a human that had been "dead" for 100 years. He proposed that animal cells also have a dormant phase. http://raypeat.com/articles/articles/stemcells.shtml
——-
"Using antibiotics creates quick evolution on a small scale environment. …Antibiotics should be taken for a longer period to ensure that all bacteria, especially the most resistant, are killed."
I understand the theory behind this and it makes sense, but for some reason I still don't buy it. I guess one reason is that I don't believe "all" the bacteria can be killed in any amount of time. If this is true, the longer antibiotics are used, the more resistant the entire population gets. Or, the more unbalanced the population gets. I think the advice that the government gives can generally be expected to be detrimental.
Matt, will you ever revisit pleomorphism? I always thought this was a very interesting theory, but don't really know what to think of it.
I have read that molasses is a good source of chromium as well as the other minerals you mention. Chromium is involved in insulin response, and is depleted by consuming excess sugars. Sorry not to have the source.
subscribing
It's funny that you wrote about the molasses…about a week ago, I started adding it to my morning blender drink. My drink started out with just fruits and veggies, then I started adding cottage cheese and eggs, which lent itself to cinnamon and molasses. Doesn't taste too good but it's good for me LOL!
You answered my question about eating starch and sugar at the same time. I guess maybe my morning drink should be all fruit or all veggies and not such a mix.
Will –
It remains to be seen what the sugar and starch thing will reveal.
Madmuhhh-
It's fasincating but too nebulous to write much more about it specifically.
El66k-
Attributing one trait to 658 species is probably a mistake. Folivores obviously rely much more heavily on hindgut fermentation. This is not so for the more frugivorous primates. Humans can still do quite a bit of fermentation and produce quite a bit of SCFA's, which I have a feeling is extremely positive in its overall effect.
Its a bit annoying how your always changing your mind! One minute refined sugar is to be avoided especially if you have adrenal fatigue and next minute its great for your body, even better than starch! I though starch 4 life was basically the 180 degree health motto lol
A little off topic for this post but would have been more apropos for the epigenetics post, but there is a bible quote that goes something like "the sins of the father will be passed on for 7 generations" or something like that. I always thought that it referred to something like if you smoked cigarettes, it would take 7 generations for that to be completely cleansed from your bloodline. An observant people perhaps? Maybe there is some truth to that quote.
I've been trying the all-fruit breakfast for the past five days, followed by a normal meal about two hours later (e.g. 2 eggs and some potatoe fried in butter, and spinach fried in unflavoured coconut oil). I feel light headed, spaced out from shortly after I've finished the fruit and for over three hours after eating the fruit. Does this mean it's not a good idea for me now, or if I keep doing it my body will get used to it?
Thanks.
Meighen
Meighen-
I gave this an answer in the newer post. It will be weeks before we get to discussing this in depth. Until then keep toying around with it and be ready to contribute your experiences to the conversation when it arrives.
"Ray Peat also mentioned a man who grew cartilage from cells of a human that had been "dead" for 100 years. He proposed that animal cells also have a dormant phase. http://raypeat.com/articles/articles/stemcells.shtml
Okaaaaaay. Remember to take Peat with a grain of sea salt (but only white sea salt, the colored kind is full of toxins!)
The "Indian Pudding" looks interesting. I will try it. Maybe with some cream over it, so it makes it's own halfasses gravy.
jared, I think Brock is right on the antiobiotics tip. My own recent and painful experience was that I was prescribed antibiotics for a cyst. I didn't take the full course. The cyst never healed. Then I got strep throat. I took the rest of the antibiotics that I had from the cyst and my throat felt better. But a few weeks later I got sick again, from stress and from having strep bacteria around me at work. (Everyone has been getting it here) Now I was out of antibiotics so I went back to the doctor and this time the antibiotics did nothing. I went back a few days later feeling like hell and they prescribed stronger antiobiotics that luckily knocked out the strep and cyst.
So yeah, I missed a week of work and about ten days of life, although my movie watching has been top notch. Lesson learned.
Rapadura is "whole cane sugar", it is very nutritious and full of vitamins and minerals. It is basically evaporated sugarcane juice. Another alternative is turbinado (brand name Sugar in the Raw), which may not be as nutritious, but still a less refined option than white sugar. Brown sugar is white sugar, with I'm guessing a small amount of molasses added back in for color and flavor, but very little nutrients.
Stancel:
"Rapadura is "whole cane sugar", it is very nutritious and full of vitamins and minerals. "
I looked up nutrition info for rapadura and couldn't find that it had any vitamins and minerals at all. Sucanet, which is another proprietary evaporated whole sugar cane juice product has a small amount of potassium and calcium, neither of which are enough to amount to a percent daily value. Of course, since calcium and potassium deficiencies have been linked to saccarine disease this might actually be important. Still I wouldn't kid myself too much that it is full of vitamins and minerals.
Also, I'm really skeptical about Matt's Brair Rabbit Molasses. The organic molasses I have is just a tiny fraction of the amount of minerals as are in that.
Turbinado or sugar in the raw is just colored white sugar. They use a trace amount of molasses to color it and make it into slightly bigger chunks so it seems less refined. Also Sugar in the Raw is no where near Rapunzel or some of the whole foods companies in terms of their fair trade policies etc.
The main negative regarding molasses is that it's very high in salicylates, which in some folks can be a huge problem.
You might consider doing a blog post on salicylate intolerance. Ties in well with adrenal fatigue, CFS, autism, etc..
Matt,
Thanks for letting me know about black strap molasses and your whole take on sugar. I was always tired after my Karate practices in the evening and it took me a long time to recover and feel normal again. But because of your recent writings on sugar I ate fruit and drank sweetened rice milk (I'm lactose intolerant – but maybe this will change). I noticed my energy level perking up a lot more quickly after that.
Anyhow, I think you've got some magical powers as I've been reading your blogs and ebooks nonstop for a few days. I really enjoy your work. Keep it up. You are really making a difference.