By Matt Stone
It’s chart time for you numbers nerds. I don’t track numbers as it pertains to my health or diet, but I am, at heart, a bit of a numbers nerd. I find numbers can and do put things into better perspective sometimes.
In my most recent books, I discuss calorie density and obtaining the warming effect from food. The lower one’s metabolism, the higher the calorie-density must be to achieve the “net warming effect” from eating.Thus, during refeeding – a tactic to recover from dietary restriction of varying degrees of severity and increase metabolic rate for general health purposes,’the calorie-density of the foods you select is of extreme importance.
I’m a?man of prioritization, so when metabolism is low, calorie density trumps all other matters or concerns regarding diet and nutrition.When metabolism is restored, eat all the?”health food” you want as long as your basic systems are?in good working order.
With further ado,?below is the small chart I put together showing calorie-density of some common foods (and cherimoya). I’made these calculations based on calories divided by weight in grams. There is only one?problem with the chart below -‘the numbers favor fat content. Fat is incredibly dense compared’to other calorie sources, and it is warming no doubt. But ultimately I think carbohydrates provide a greater warming effect per calorie than fat with water content equal. So, looking strictly at calorie density does not reveal the whole story about how?warming a food is. I mean,?are almonds really 7’times more warming than boiled potatoes because they are 7 times more calorie dense? Don’t think so.
Perhaps in the future I’ll’try to put together a carbohydrate-density chart. And then, someday when I’m?wearing my fancy pants, I can try to construct a full-on?warming chart factoring in salt content, carbohydrate-density, and calorie-density. Yes, a fine day that will be indeed. For now you’ll just have to settle for keeping your ratio of butter cookie intake to acorn squash intake very high if you are actively trying to restore your metabolic rate. I know, it’s upsetting. Just try to dig deep and stir up some willpower.
If you are curious about juice and soft drinks, most are about the same as the fruit from which they are derived. Soft drinks usually have about the same calorie density of fruit juice. Most non-starchy vegetables end up about where broccoli is at, below 0.5. Oh, and those pancakes are with butter and syrup. Anyway, I hope this was useful to someone.
First! …Looks like I’m having butter cookies slathered with butter for breakfast. Ya know, for the CLA of course.
Funny, my favorite foods (in order) are butter, almonds, and peanut butter.
I was suprised that Medjool Dates are slightly higher than Ice Cream. I would have thought for sure Ice Cream, being both sugar and fat, would be much higher than Dates. The most warming food for me personally has been OJ with some Baking Soda added to it. I have gotten my body temp as high as 101 degrees F with that drink and it feels awesome!!
Dates have zero water content, which is what makes them more calorie dense. OJ is still a little low on the spectrum for me to get really warm from it. But I do drink it in small amounts daily, and blended with bananas. But I’m pretty reassured by the fact that I can keep my metabolism really high now eating mostly foods below 1.0 on the calorie density chart. That certainly didn’t used to be the case.
So it doesn’t work in reverse. That is, attempting to cool down a bit by eating less calorie dense food won’t work? Perhaps it will only work if someone did it months at a time?
Did it fizz like a volcano?
I do the OJ with baking soda thing too. About 1/2 tsp baking soda per pint of OJ, approximately. It’s a staple drink for me these days, and it’s freakin’ awesome. Really refreshing. Works great in pineapple juice too, and cranberry juice. You just can’t compete with the fizzy.
Occasionally I add 1/8 tsp of magnesium glycinate to it, or some ionic mineral drops.
And Karen: when I use the 1/2 tsp in about a pint, it doesn’t fizz over, though it does fizz a lot. I have to leave a little headroom. Nothing like the other day when I had a beer and absent mindedly (probably because I had one or two before that one) just put a few big pinches of salt into the bottle and then went to drink it. It exploded in my mouth, foam went everywhere, and then I just pulled the bottle away from me and stood there helplessly — staring at it without blinking and with a blank expression on my face while it fizzed over onto the floor for about 15 seconds until 3/4 of the bottle was gone.
I’ve been having lots of OJ lately as well, with lots of added sugar and salt. Surprisingly, it can get me quite warm. I can get down at least 150g of sugar with 500ml of OJ or other juices/soft drinks.
Is that 150g of sugar on top of or including the sugars naturally in the OJ? I’m getting better but I’m still struggling against my recent issues with sugar and either way that quantity is a smack upside the head that apparently those issues are still there.
That’s on top of the OJ. I think it might even be a lot more than 150g, actually. I was underestimating to play it safe.
What kind of issues is it giving you exactly?
Purely mental issues. Just still struggling to root out the internal labeling of “good” and “bad” foods (with sugar being solidly in the bad category of course *sigh*) As I said, it’s getting better, but I’ve still got a ways to go before food can really return to just being food without the neuroses attached. :)
I actually add heavy cream (just a bit) to OJ with baking soda. It reminds me of this old ice-cream bar I used to get called a “creamcicle”. It’s delicious! And even more warming!
Wow a creamsicle! Thanks for that tip Lianda :)
I do this too, one of my favorite beverages! Haven’t tried the baking soda though, must try!
Awesome Thanks!
Matt, have you looked at Ayurveda for warming foods? Warming vs. cooling foods is a major theme to all of Ayurvedic medicine. They figured this out thousands of years ago- a pretty good place to start for warming food choices.
What we’re after here is a genuine warming effect, not necessarily a superficial “warming” referred to in Asian nutrition modalities. Big Macs didn’t exist thousands of years ago.
Is there some deep metabolism healing going on when eating a Big Mac?
I’ll pass on the Big Mac. Food is not just about caloric density and macro nutrient levels (carbohydrate, fat, protein). There is also the micro nutrients (minerals and vitamins), the availability of such nutrients, the presence of anti-nutrients and harmful synthetics (BHT, MSG, carrageenan, polysorbate 80, BVO, vegetable oils, trans fat, dubious preservatives), and freshness / quality of the source.
Sure, on paper you can make a Big Mac (or anything) appear to be more nutritious and more effective for boosting metabolism.
But I’ll pass.
For instance, compare 100g of grassfed liver vs. 100g of a Big Mac. The liver is only a *single* ingredient, whereas the Big Mac contains several. And yet, grassfed liver dominates a Big Mac in nutritional quality (gram per gram), with fewer harmful subtances. Want more calories? Eat the liver with butter or coconut oil. Have a piece of fruit with it. Now you’re still only at 2 or 3 ingredients total. Once a week is all you need.
By the same token, liver with butter and fruit looks good on paper. But that will never make it better than a Big Mac.
Do you mean by taste? I don’t think big macs taste so good (nothing like a great burger should). Taste-wise, I would take liver cooked in butter over a big mac anytime.
You’re on the wrong blog. Weston Price didn’t have all the answers and there are holes in his theory of tooth decay big enough to drive a truck through. I had no cavities for 18 years, rarely brushed my teeth or used floss, mostly brushed with water, and had no cavities. Metabolic rate is more a factor, IMO. I got cavities in college when I wasn’t eating enough food (sipping Cokes and eating cereal fruit bars for breakfast, not eating lunch and fasting until dinner probably, etc. Then I got more on the raw food Primal Diet, with lots of grass-fed organic raw milk & other foods I was told to worship. I started to doubt that when the farmer I got milk from once had a very visible abscessed tooth. Haven’t had any in like 8 years. Most people don’t eat liver because they can’t stand it, esp plain. Those who eat it usually fry it in flour probably, offending the raw food fanatics and gluten-phobes in a two-for-one deal. I have seem far more benefits drinking sugar sodas recently than all my ears on the WAP band wagon. I’ve read plenty of stories of people whose health was ruined by “healthy eating” and low-carb, low-sugar nonsense. Check the facts, and plug the holes in Price’s theories about cavities.
Huh?
if i made banana bread with almond flour would that increase the calorie density?
Yes, but like I alluded to in the post, that doesn’t make it better. I think carbohydrate density is just as big of a factor, if not a bigger factor, and why this chart will have to further be refined to be useful as a “warming” chart.
Order by density please ;)
I LOVE cherimoya…and now I really miss living in Miami.
I think there’s a good chance the chocolate cake that’s baking right now may become a wonderfully metabolism boosting dinner (it’d be lunch but I need to get to the store before I have what I need for the frosting). I’ve been craving it for days but I just can’t stand storebought cakes and I haven’t had a chance to make it till now. I wonder if it’s ready yet….
We went through a lengthy homemade chocolate cake phase. It was awesome. I can’t handle really warming things late in the day though. Sherbet for me for the rest of the summer.
Do you guys have any special chocolate cake recipe you like? I’ve been rediscovering baking and would like to try one.
Also, took the 180 strawberry shortcake to a brunch yesterday and it was a big hit!
This is my go to chocolate cake: http://sweetapolita.com/2010/11/rich-ruffled-chocolate-celebration-cake/
This is the frosting I used today and its fluffy chocolaty awesomeness: http://sweetapolita.com/2012/03/choco-choco-birthday-cake/
Though I usually use a chocolate swiss meringue buttercream.
When I found that blog is when I discovered that I really do like cake. Every recipe I’ve made has been a winner as long as I actually followed the directions (a surprisingly difficult thing for me to do). I’m going to make http://sweetapolita.com/2013/03/lemon-meringue-delight-cake/ sometime soon cause seriously: lemon meringue CAKE??
I am grateful. That is all. :D
Oh, yeah, forgot to say: Thanks, those look incredibly awesome!
I’ve forgotten to pay attention to time of day for eating more and less warming foods. After rereading your restless leg breakthrough now I wonder if that’s why that’s been cropping up again lately. It went away for a few months when I started using magnesium oil but it seems there’s another part to it now that it’s back.
Someone needs to make me a food journal that fills itself out.
“Someone needs to make me a food journal that fills itself out.”
Ha, yes! I’m sure the Google Glass people are working on it, though, creepy as that may seem.
Is all dried fruit warming?
My most warming food is red meat. My hands get nice and warm and toasty after eating steak, avocado and sour cream.
The worst cooling food is definitely high pottasium foods for me. A bowl of greek yogurt with strawberries leads to non stop chills an hour or so later. Eggs alone (with no carbs) does the same.
Interesting that fried chicken is lower on the list than some of the others like potato chips. Potato chips can usually get me out of a 3pm fog, probably all that yummy salt!
I get the chills after a bowl of greek yogurt as well. Too many eggs as well!
Glad to see someone else freezes after greek yogurt!
I still prefer it to most regular yogurt bc it’s like eating socially acceptable cream cheese. Eggs and meat alone leads to feeling GROSS afterwards, some sourdough toast usually balances it out.
Yes! For me meat&veggies do no good alone. Already the phrase (meat&veggies – big on every health blog) makes me feel nauseous nowadays.
Haven’t paid attention to greek yoghurt: gonna observe the next time I have it. Eggs do it to me also, brrr, I don’t wanna even think about it.
Funny. I just returned from a holiday in Minorca (next to Mallorca). I ate all the bread and pizza and burgers (but not only those) and I had NO problems whatsoever! So it def isn’t the gluten. With dairy I’ve got some problems but it’s yet to find out are they due to lactose only or is there something else to it.
And cookies! I secretly LOVE these cocoa filled cookies and I used to always eat them when travelling, it’s been YEARS but now, I am back with those :)
“And then, someday when I’m wearing my fancy pants…”
Yea, like you really wear pants.
It might be easier to follow if you sorted the chart by calorie density, Matt.
Interesting post as always.
you said, “When metabolism is restored, eat all the ?health food? you want as long as your basic systems are in good working order.” How do you know when full metabolism is restored? This is what I don’t get….. How do you gauge that yourself?
Your basal temps, that is, when you wake up, are 98.7F or higher, and you start feeling better. Your skin is less dry on your hands and lower legs, and your hair gets greasier. And a lot more, but it depends on where are you coming from.
hey, my hair just got greasy today! seriously!
I don’t think hair will get greasy quickly if you don’t eat a lot of PUFAs. That has been my experience and the moderator on Scientific Debate Forum also noticed this, while eating a low-PUFA diet modeled on Ray Peat. I would say not having dandruff is also a good sign. I used to have bad dandruff on every diet I was on, from low-fat to low-fat to Primal Diet to paleo to Peat. Something has fixed it. The most recent significant change was drinking several sugar sodas a day (like Sierra Mist or Pepsi Throwback). I was drinking them occasionally before, but not habitually or in large amounts. Other things I have been doing longer which may be factors – gummy bears (or other gelatin foods), sunbathing with as much exposed skin as possible & no sunscreen (progressively, as much as comfortable, taking hot and cold “contrast showers,” using glycerine soap for all bathing (365 brand at Whole Foods or Amazon), and using Thai Crystal rather than chemical deodorants with aluminum or triclosan or other poisons… Maybe other things I have forgotten. My skin is soft and smooth, so is my hair. It doesn’t get greasy or smelly, no matter what I eat (generally low-PUFAs, esp junky / refined oils).
My hair was greasier when I was in my worse shape. It is dryer now that my temps are higher.
This got me wondering about being pregnant and hot all the damn time. Does this mean pregnant women are hyper metabolic? How does this concept apply to that situation?
I’ve been wondering that because I am a furnace! I don’t take temps anymore but I’ve had other signs of high metabolism since becoming pregnant that made me wonder about that as well.
Not pregnant or menopausal, yet also a bl***y furnace. Not looking forward to summer at all.
This could be hot flushes, do check your temps because it may not actually be a sign your core temp is high.
Your basal body temperature rises when you are pregnant. It is completely normal. You have extra blood, your heart grows due to the extra work of pumping all the extra blood around. You have more water too, of course. Digestion slows down, but the extra blood and extra work your heart, kidneys, & other organs have to do is probably why body temperature rises. I think it has to do with protecting your baby too.
Matt – will eating for heat really make a difference if my thyroid is the problem?
In most situations the thyroid issue is a symptom, not a cause.
How often do you wear your fancy pants? And what is it about them that makes them fancy? I’m picturing sequins, and bedazzling…
Doesn’t unsaturated fats suppress metabolic rate, then eating for example almonds, peanut butter, fried chicken doesn’t makes sense if you want to raise metabolism. Why make it harder then it already is. There can also be a lot of unsaturated fats in cheese, butter and chocolate.
Bingo. You hit the nail on the head, Henk.
To continue further, the caloric density misses two important points:
1.) The type of calories. Unsaturated fats, especially longer-chain PUFAs, *suppress* the metabolic rate and promote a drop in body temperature. (You can coat any item of food with pure corn oil and boast how it’s your personal “body heat hack!” because it increases the caloric density of the meal, when in fact you are promoting the very opposite.)
2.) How many servings one normally eats when comparing foods in different categories. The equation for caloric density on its own does not provide this. Metabolism and body temperature correlate with *total* caloric intake, after all.
My temp lately is about 97.7. No good??? I’ve been at this for 12 months now and I know I need to keep going coz I ate soup for a few days and I was freezing. Have upped the carbs again and not freezing now! Have gone up two clothes size though and can’t keep affording (or even finding) more clothes!!!!! Argh! Would really love an over 200’s group. Anyone else???
I also would love to see a chart done purely on carb content and not cals, but still this is helpufl, thanks Matt.
Just wondering, what time frame for healing have people experienced???
I’ve been at this for 2 years or so. I had to recover from disordered eating and just eating a normal amount of calories took me over a year, and now over the past several months I’ve been making more progress. I had the opposite problem: I couldn’t gain weight. I’m 5’10”; at my lowest weight I was 118lbs. I’m at 170lbs now and am feeling a lot healthier.
My morning temps range from 96.3-97.3 F. When I started I was around 95.9 F. It’s taking me a long time, but I’ve also started experimenting with heavily Peat-inspired ideas over the past several months and have been getting slow results from that: feeling calmer, more stable, much higher resistance to getting sick.
I’d like to get to 98.0 F for a waking oral temperature, but even at 97.3 F I feel a whole lot better than I did when it was 95.9 F.
So for how long it takes to recover, or any kind of time frame, it’s probably highly variable, and the fastest route is probably to not worry about how long it’ll take and just focus on tweaking what you’re doing and making it as effective as you can day by day, and keeping your focus on the journey more than the destination — and most likely you’ll get there before you know it.
When I ask myself this question too when I’m feeling like I’m never going to get better and am wondering how long it’s going to be, I’m reminded of a zen koan:
———————————————————————–
A martial arts student went to his teacher and said earnestly, “I am devoted to studying your martial system. How long will it take me to master it?”
The teacher’s reply was casual. “Ten years.”
Impatiently the student answered, “But I want to master it faster than that. I will work very hard. I will practice everyday, ten or more hours a day if I have to. How long will it take then?”
The teacher thought for a moment. “20 years.”
Love this teacher-student story! Tortoise & hare, but better.
are male or female? if you are a female are you cycling properly? i only mention this because i’m 97.7 pre-ov and 98.4 post-ov.
P.S. 97.7 F sounds great to me, having a lower temperature than you do and even with that lower temperature having felt tremendous improvements. 97.8 F is the original ‘dividing line,’ and 97.7 isn’t far off from that at all.
Ray Peat has said it can take the body 4 years to show a change in dietary fats from unsaturated to saturated. I’m trying to keep that in mind and that helps keep me motivated.
And if it’s taking a long time, too, it might just be showing that you need to tweak what you’re doing. Taking rhodiola rosea has helped me, and I’m considering taking seriphos and drinking holy basil tea just to supplement what I’m already doing. I’ve had a lot of psychological problems for example and I’ve read a lot of testimonies of people suffering with PTSD benefiting from using adaptogens, and some people getting a saliva cortisol test and using that to determine the times they dose with seriphos, etc.
Adding a lot of salt helped bring my temps up after a long period of them budging nowhere, for example, and getting more sleep, taking a few extra supplements (e.g. adaptogens), and meditating have all been helping me out a lot. Epsom salt baths too.
I’d just say keep focusing on whatever you can do to get yourself farther along and you’ll probably be farther along before you know it. And then maybe you’ll be able to look back on last year and see that you’re doing so much better, although the progress was so gradual you didn’t notice it while it was happening.
I’ve been reading this site for awhile now and learned lots. I quickly figured out that what was wrong with me was what is described here (gaining weight on 1500 calories a day).
I’d like to ask what you think, Matt, of doing detox cleanses? I had just started a cleanse (I do it once a year) when I started reading your blog. I was having a lot of gut pain from the raw foods and after I read a bit here I just quit the diet. I embraced the ideas here and just ate whatever I wanted when I felt hungry and decreased my water intake and stopped swimming laps two or three times a week. I also went through a period of terrible stress right afterwards so it was a good thing I knew then to eat through it. I’ve been eating the 180 degree way since March. I’m still consistently at 96.4 every morning.
And…I feel lousy since. I quickly gained 15 pounds and I have symptoms that I haven’t had since I started eating more carefully a few years ago. Namely, muscle aches, stuffy sinuses and joint pain as well as fatigue. I don’t know if I am feeling out of shape because I am not keeping my muscles strong through swimming but I do think that the other symptoms are from the foods I’m eating. I absolutely HATE my belly too. It seriously gets in my way! I swear the whole 15 pounds is on my belly.
So, I decided to do a detox, but a different one that worked well for me a few years ago. The supplements for it are expensive but after I did it then my sinuses were clear and my joint pain was gone. The diet for the cleanse consists of veggies, fruits and meats. During the middle ten days, no fruits. (It’s a 30 day cleanse). I am tweaking it with knowledge gained here by trying to eat a lot and I’ll add as many carbs/starch as I can with potatoes and squash, etc. Also I’m eating the veggies more cooked than raw because cooked takes less energy to digest. I’m also eating more fats than the cleanse suggests and less water.
Am I shooting myself in the foot? I really want to just get healthy and not just lose weight. I don’t like the way I feel since eating the 180d way but I also don’t want to make my metabolic and thyroid issues worse in the long run.
Bottom line, what do you think of detox cleanses that are meant to clear systems out and restart? Are they detrimental or helpful? Any suggestions on how I can make it more beneficial?
Thanks! I appreciate your input!
I don’t know what more knowledgeable people would say but for me personally, I think they’re hard on the body and do no good other than triggering lots of adrenal hormones for a while. They always made me feel hungover, headaches and nausea, dullness, tiredness, like hell really – and the last few times I tried I would vomit and get migraines for days. Now, even a smallish change in diet will do that too. Personally I think people mistake adrenaline highs for real benefits, and the nausea and headaches to ‘all the sh1t leaving your body’ and I’m not buying it anymore!
I would tend to agree with this. I think cleanses and detoxes and the like probably temporarily raise stress hormones, which feels good for a while, and then terrible later. See The Catecholamine Honeymoon.
I’m not matt, but i thought i’d comment here anyway…
In general, “detoxing” doesn’t actually do anything. If your body was holding on to toxins, your skin would be a nice shade of yellow and you’d be unable to remember your own name. See: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hepatic_encephalopathy
Clayvessel,
What you are experiencing is recovery/healing symptoms. Your body won’t feel great initially with recovery. Like recovering from illness, surgery, etc., there’s a period of feeling like crap before you begin to feel better. I have more information, which goes into more details about this, on my blog if you are interested. Good luck.
Thank you for the comment. I don’t know about that though. I have a looong history of food and diet issues (don’t we all) and periods of discovery. For all of my youth I ate everything and my weight was fine. In my late 30’s and early 40’s I discovered my adrenal fatigue (through saliva testing) and that it was causing my developing heath issues. I also began having joint pain that went away when I stopped eating wheat. Lots of other things that I won’t detail here but bottom line is I learned about my body and the reactions it had to certain foods. I also started gaining weight and spent periods trying to lose it, yadda yadda and here I am, always on the edge of adrenal fatigue, too much cortisol, low metabolism, and now I no longer have youth on my side (I’m 51). I’ve been off grains and dairy for only a week and my joints feel better and my sinuses aren’t as stuffy.
The thing with the 180d way of eating is that it doesn’t seem to take into account the food sensitivities that many people have. Eating things that trigger reactions (joint pain, asthma, etc.) need to be avoided but that goes against the food dogma here. I’m not being critical, I’m just trying to mesh the things I’ve learned with the new info I’m still learning.
I will check out your blog. So much to read, so little time! I also haven’t (yet) found anyone specifically addressing cleanse/detox diets (I know, some are horrible. Master cleanse anyone?)
Emma, I can’t get anything on your blog except the post from Mar. 21, 2013. None of the tags or links go anywhere else (except the ones in the post leading to other blogs).
Clayvessel, my blog is solely for the purpose of providing information in that one post. I have no other posts, and it’s not an interactive blog. I don’t know anything about real blogging, so my tags are there for searches that people do using those terms. I have no idea if tags help with search terms, but I have them there just in case they do.
I hope you find the answers you are searching for.
Salted Dates w/RiceCakes & Honey. My low fat, warming biohack…
I think many people would feel much better if they just tried to eat normally and don’t do any diets. After I’ve tried many diets and spending hours and hours on internet reading about food I’ve come to the conclusion that I feel best when I eat normal, not too much and not too little, mostly real homemade food and enough carbs, protein and fats. So those who struggle with the 180 degree diet, just try to eat normally and see if you feel better.
Many have tried eating normally and it got them nowhere, esp if they already had an eating disorder or body dysmorphia or low metabolism or chemical/metal poisoning. What is normal? Describe your normal eating. What if we don’t like to cook or don’t have time? What if we don’t like cooked food and would rather be able to just eat cold foods spontaneously? Is that not normal because you say so?
Seeing the banana bread on the list just gave me an idea of what to do with the extra bananas on my counter. I’m thinking flour, bananas, cinnamon, maple syrup, a couple eggs, a little milk, and maybe some oatmeal on the crust. Anybody have any cool banana bread recipes to share?
This one is awesome…
Mash 4 bananas with 1 cup sugar or honey. Add the following and bake at 350 for an 70-80 minutes. Check the middle for doneness and cover with foil if getting too brown.
2 cups white whole wheat flour
2 eggs
1 tsp vanilla
1 tsp baking powder
1 tsp baking soda
1/2 cup coconut oil
1/4 cup ground flaxseed -optional
1 cup chocolate chips-optional
@David – I have a great banana bread recipe in a book, but it’s a long one to type up! Perhaps when I have time I’ll do so on the forum :) In the meantime, I made this recipe for banana muffins the other day: http://allrecipes.co.uk/recipe/18011/banana-muffins-with-chocolate-chips.aspx I hardly ever follow recipes properly, so for this one I used diluted yogurt instead of milk (I’d run out of milk), and olive oil instead of vegetable oil (melted butter or coconut oil would probably be even better), and about 100g of chopped-up dark chocolate instead of 85g of chocolate chips. Still, they turned out totally awesome! Best banana muffins I’ve ever made!
Hey can I please ask why some of you add baking soda to orange juice? What does it do?
Thanks!
I assume it’s added for some sodium and cause it fizzes in the acidic juice. I tried it after reading about it above and while the fizz was kinda fun it tasted awful to me. I’ll stick with adding some extra sugar and ginger bug to my juices and ferment for a few days when I want to add fizz personally.
So, did you ever get those pants on and make that warming chart? :$