1)???? At first you can’t sleep at all
2)????? You announce it to everyone on Facebook
3)????? You are 100% convinced you’ve found something that you can do for the rest of your life
4)????? You go on and on talking to your friends about it until they are sure you have gone crazy
5)????? You bring it home for the Holidays and make your family feel uncomfortable
6)????? You stop going out with your friends because of it
7)????? Your friends and family express concern that you are going to end up hurt
8)????? The more time passes, the less often you get an erection
9)????? You enjoy eating it at first, but after a while even the smell of it makes your stomach turn
10)? After a few months you start daydreaming of other flavors, and want more variety
11)? At first you make a lot of tasty, homecooked meals ? but then get lazy
12)? Over time you start to notice bad breath and body odor
13)? You start seeing things in the toilet that are strange, unfamiliar, and gross
14)? You lose your zest for life and start staying home and watching movies every night
15)? You pass no gas at first, then after a few months you start farting a lot
16)? You develop a strange rash
17)? Your sex life gets steadily worse
18)? It makes you feel cold, lifeless, and empty inside
19)? After several months you lose all your motivation to work out and stay in shape
20)? You start to cheat and feel really bad about it
21)? You spend time looking at alternatives on the internet, and watching videos
22)? You keep hearing that it’s your fault that things aren’t going well
23)? You tell everyone it’s over and they say I told ya so, what were you thinking??
24)? You find another and start the whole process over again
25)? After a few months apart you forget how horrible it was and you want to start over
Feel free one of you clever 180 ladies (Nipper? Haga? Hawaii Girl? Annabelle are you out there?)’to create one of these with a boyfriend/husband theme or similar. I’m sure the peeps would love it. I’m already laughing thinking of good ones, like:? “You wake up with 2 black eyes but continue to believe?it’s good for you.”?
Classic. Love this one:
“8) The more time passes, the less often you get an erection”
Reminds me of my recent trek into the wild and wacky world of Paelo eating and working out everyday with low carbs. Brilliant.
There were some other ones that I wanted to add too. Like at first you are often told how good you look, but then the compliments stop coming.
HAHA. Good call. Or something like it requires you spend more and more money on it the more serious you get.
I can say that once you leave a diet, it can be like the psycho ex-girlfriend that calls every 5 minutes and stalks you…except in this case (a diet) it leaves you with lingering food phobias and awful habits like mental calorie counting and stupid food rules you can’t shake.
Yeah, it’s surprising how tenacious that mental garbage is. I wonder if that’s why some of us stay effed up so long after stupid diets; The mental garbage keeps interfering.
So true…I was really bad for a while (as in everything on the food scale then converted to calories bad…that and using a body scale to tell me what mood to be in…HAHA). I am a lot better now thanks to Matt and this site, but I still will count in my head, or question a carb here and there when I shouldn’t. All things in time I guess…I certainly didn’t learn these bad habits overnight, and I don’t expect to shake them off that quickly either.
You’ve got to consciously stop yourself from counting, then eventually you’ll forget. I never think in calories anymore, and this is the girl who would track them obsessively and knew the calories in everything.
Wow…how long did it take for you to stop the madness? :)
Yeah, I want to know as well. Even as someone who didn’t count calories or carbs, I can still have that “too little”, “too much” style of thinking. Even if you are stopping yourself from counting, there’s different ways to obsess.
Well, about 4 years. I had an eating disorder, and that’s how long it took me to really fully recover. I was taught to not measure anything or look at calorie counts on labels. It’s tough, but I managed it eventually by sheer will. Another good trick is to think about the nutrients in the food, or the lack of chemicals. IMO, things like MSG and aspartame are the real problem, not calories per se. And 100 calories of broccoli will affect you very differently than 100 calories of canola oil. And it also takes realizing that your body NEEDS calories, and trusting that it will self-regulate (which it will once you tune in and start listening to it). So when you start thinking in these terms, that makes it easier, too. It definitely takes time, though.
Amy that’s nice to hear, I am currently recovering from an eating disorder myself (it’s been around 8 months now since I went into the recovery program, I then moved onto RRARF and RBTI) and am still really struggling to understand what my body’s signals are; I feel like I wouldn’t recognise natural hunger or satiety if it slapped me in the face! But I’m paying attention and trusting that me & my body will slowly make friends and learn to work together… I just read The Don’t Go Hungry Diet, I think that’s helping me listen to my body’s signals too.
But man it’s SO hard not to restrict (even unconsciously), I catch myself doing it all the time! Especially when you’re carrying a few RRARFing rolls haha :)
Athnamas, it takes a LOT of time and effort so definitely allow yourself time to slowly get better. For me, it was 4 years and several relapses before I really felt I’d beaten it. I would say just be patient with yourself, and always look at the “why” behind why you’re restricting in any given moment (are you sad, stressed, etc.). I found working with my therapist invaluable.
I found Rrarf so helpful (though I didn’t eat past satiety, just to satiety). RBTI, though, was was too restrictive for my comfort (not to mention it worsened my health). I saw ED flags all over the place following it. I would advise watching out for that.
I really like your perspective. It’s similar to mine. I’m also early thirties and getting out of the whole dieting mindset. I didn’t have eating disorder for a long time though. I just started developing patterns by getting way too into health and then slowly creeping into low carb. It amazes me that I’m still undoing the health consequences of that.
I’ve taken the approach you seem to describe of really understanding motivations and not carrying judgment. I did a few months of RBTI and saw eating disorder red flags all over the place as well. That’s one of the reasons I knew I couldn’t stay on it. I would never recover my old way of eating as long as I had all these rules.
It’s been two years since quitting low carb and slowly learning to ETF. But I’m also trying to get my body to feel normal again, so it’s been a slow learning process.
Best post ever Matt.
I agree. I just didn’t want to be the first to say it.
Haha. That’s awesome. I actually did get one ex-girlfriend comment so far.
Okay I’ll be third to say it.
Winner for “Best Comically Genius Post Everrr!”
Number 9… oh my gawd! Laughed my ass off! Haha.
Hilarious. And sadly so too often true. But I would say only with BAD new girlfriends/boyfriends :)
And I have another one to add to the list…
After the honeymoon phase is over, you realize what a fool you had been to believe that one was “the one” finally – again!
Yeah where is HawaiiGirl? I miss her comments…
I miss her too,
Been missing Deb too.
And it’s been good to see the Nipper back lately :)
Gonna leave the thorough male-bashing retally to them. Haha :)
People don’t realise it, but fake turkey is made from the flesh of endangered African tofudebeests. Eat real turkey and save a helpless wild animal.
Tofudebeasts? Haha, hilarious!
Aloha dudes and wahines
Just home grow Hawaii and oh, yes , I have a boyfriend version brewing up like broccoli gas :-) have to get it to ya later I am all messed up time wise. Very funny mr Stone intl man of mystery. Xo haga
Yay Deb’s back! Hope you had a great time in HI :)
And I knew we could count on you to serve us up some bad-boyfriend-bashing brew. Haha!
Glad you’re back :)
“I have a boyfriend version brewing up like broccoli gas :”
That’s why it’s best to have multiple girlfriends.
Kind of like eating at a buffet.
Now that was funny!!
Some work, some don’t. The one’s that do have no room for blame and are far from perfect. When you look back after 35 years with someone and still feel as romantic if not more than when you first met, it’s magic. For this to happen, both parties have to be willing to allow each person to be who they really are…..gas and all. Laughter has to be a frequent and mandatory ingredient. Being able to have a good fight, make up, kiss and move on is a must. KISS also applies….just be satisfied to enjoy the simple things in life.
YES! That’s why I felt the need to add the “BAD girlfriends/boyfriends” proviso – personally.
I totally agree, Heather. Well said. Sounds like you have that. Awesome! :)
“…after 35 years with someone and still feel as romantic if not more than when you first met, it’s magic.”
This is so true and definitely does happen for some. I have had that kind of “magic” before. And I personally know couples who are still (some even more so) crazy about each other years later. Seeing it and having felt that kind of magic before, is why I will not settle for less. None of us should. For me, lasting passion for each other and passion for life is a must!
I’m not one who gets cynical or jaded by relationships. I take the (invaluable) lessons I learn from each experience with me and remain open and optimistic that I will find that magic (again). In fact, I have no doubt. And I won’t settle for less. Most of my exes weren’t “bad” boyfriends per se. It’s just that magic wasn’t there and so I lose interest really easily. But if the magic doesn’t happen with someone – nobody’s fault – we just don’t make magic together and just aren’t right for each other. Simple. No blame. No hard feelings.
I agree that laughter, KISS, enjoying the simple things, appreciating the little things, and not taking life or yourself so freakin’ seriously are a huge part of it. But…
“…both parties have to be willing to allow each person to be who they really are?..gas and all.”
“Being able to have a good fight, make up, kiss and move on…”
Yes, both are even more important! And it’s very hard to find someone who “gets” that and can “do” that (some people just can’t do it). And… finding it in someone you also click with is even more tough. But for the ones who do find it together. Yes, it’s magic!
Amen! Couldn’t agree more, and this is why I’m in my early thirties and still single (well, that and the fact that I spent my 20s in an eating disorder and then recovering from it – didn’t actually start living until the end of my 20s). Having found “magic” before, I cannot ever settle for less than that. I’d rather be by myself until I do find it.
Best post ever Matt. This was awesome!
Yep I would so rather not be with anyone than be with the wrong person. Life is great when you do what really makes you happy – following your passions and living your truths. Sharing that with someone else who does and who you have “that kinda magic” with? Even better! :)
Life is too good to settle for being with the wrong person.
And after you have been burned enough times by new diets and/or new girlfriends or boyfriends, you become a little cynical and keep your guard up. Sort of like me with “RBTI Lite”. Everything SEEMS great, but I keep waiting for something to go horribly, HORRIBLY wrong!
“Everything SEEMS great, but I keep waiting for something to go horribly, HORRIBLY wrong!”
Careful… IF that’s what you “think” – you’ll probably be right ;)
And likewise, if you “think” things will work out great – you’ll probably be right :)
Well, I dunno. The last 3 diets – Schwarzbein, then Paleo, then Peat, I started out like gangbusters and felt great and no one was more surprised than I was about 6 months into each program when things started falling apart. So I can’t assume that RBTI Lite will be “the answer” for me after my previous experiences. I HOPE it will be. And actually, I think my being more “on guard” is making me more aware of how my body is responding which has enabled me to follow my intuition and fine tune the program to suit my needs more. Let’s just say my eyes are wide open this time around. :-)
There ya go :)
Oh and just to clarify, I was “generally” speaking before. It can apply to anything, of course. The mind is a powerful thing. That could be good, bad, or ugly haha! And it’s the choice of the beholder :)
Oops. I forgot to say – also there is usually good/positive that can be taken from the bad/negative. Mistakes and things that go “horribly wrong” teach us invaluable things…
“I think my being more ?on guard? is making me more aware of how my body is responding which has enabled me to follow my intuition and fine tune the program to suit my needs more. Let’s just say my eyes are wide open this time around. :-)”
Case in point :)
Totally Cathy. Being “on guard” is huge. The real diet winners are the ones that not only read biofeedback but even consider the fact that feeling good might be bad, and that feeling bad might be good. Caution and care and careful attention are mandatory mindsets going into any dietary or lifestyle experiment. It’s those that get fully seduced by an idealogy that get themselves into the most trouble, and embarass themselves the most among their friends and families. That’s why I work so hard to poke holes in that which seems so infallible when you are immersed in “x” diet cult.
Rrarf worked fabulously for me. I still eat that way, there is nothing better. However, it wasn’t enough to cure all of my health issues. You may have some stuff that takes additional help remedying from supplements, etc (Matt may disagree with that though)
I don’t know if anyone ever fixes all of their health problems. I don’t know anyone in everlasting perfect health. My objective from the beginning has been improvement, not perfection. And it’s hard not to notice core improvement when body temperature rises.
Wow, Matt, that was one of those statements that sounds simple enough but is actually very profound. Maybe you should do a special post on it. When I read it, it was like you stuck a pin in this giant bubble over my head filled with a buzzilion health and diet recommendations and completely deflated it. In a good way! :-) I was like, “Huh? All these years I have been looking for something that doesn’t exist?” And of course, as I think about it, I know you are exactly right. And knowing that brings a kind of peace, an end to that constant drive to keep seeking and seeking until I find THE ANSWER. Wow. What am I going to do with all this free time now? Enjoy life, maybe? Get some fresh air? Take a walk? :-)
I would have to disagree with that. I thought every diet I ever did would cure me of everything except for maybe RBTI. It was the diet that I thought would kill me that made me feel the best!!!
Haha. Seems my ‘message’ got lost in translation again – it happens lol :)
I didn’t mean it quite that literally! :) Or even specifically to diets. Just in general with anything. And I certainly wasn’t saying those two statements are always true in every situation. I aimed only to ‘caution’ their possibility of happening – hence my use of the words “careful” and “probably.” It was just a friendly reminder to be careful what you think ? could be self-sabotaging! :)
And I definitely wasn’t saying a person shouldn’t be cautious. By all means, use what you learn from past experience to help guide you – like Cathy is doing (as I noted in my “case in point” comment). But it’s important to also take care not to inadvertently sabotage things with doubtful thoughts and negative thinking. Always give yourself the best possible chance of success by thinking positively. And not that you shouldn’t apply ‘critical’ thinking and caution as well – you should of course. Just be careful of negative/doubting thoughts that can negatively influence your results and the possibility of an otherwise positive outcome is all.
That being said, of course not everything will work out the way you hope every time ? no matter how much positive thinking you do! :) But that’s not always a bad thing either. Failures, mistakes, things that go wrong all have value too and serve a greater purpose ? if you let them. Failures and mistakes are opportunities to learn something. Then you try again or move on ? a little wiser, with fewer blind spots, with more perspective, with your eyes more open, less narrow-minded ( or more wide-minded lol), with better judgment, and so on ? hopefully! :)
But that doesn’t mean you shouldn’t give each new endeavor its own fair shot with great optimism. Then let each one and its (true) results stand on its own merits – uninfluenced by negative thoughts and doubts. Otherwise, what’s the point in doing it, right? :)
As long as we’re talking about sort of random stuff here, I just want to throw it out there that I’ve switced to eating more heavily in the evenings now. Staying with my folks over the Christmas break is what did it to me. At first the erraticness and the difference from RBTI was affecting my sleep a lot. Then right at the end of the break, I had nice decent size dinner at a malt shop and slept really well that night. At that point I knew I was acclimated and I simply made the decision, I’m not going back right now.
The decision immediately felt liberating. The RBTI eating schedule never quite worked for me. I’m going to stop worrying so much about breakfast when it takes long enough to get my work day going anyway. I won’t be trying to guess at lunch or dinner what’s the right amount to eat, which I could never figure out. And I’ll have a lot more freedom going out with friends in the evening.
Gotta say I made a lot of progress on symptoms in the past few months. How much was due to further letting go of mental rules, and how much was due to RBTI is a very tough call though. It seems a lot of people that have been having success with RBTI have done so by applying the rules in a loose fashion and learning how to adapt it to themselves.
good call Aaron… i quit doing RBTI along time ago, eating schedule sucks!!! It was hard for me to eat in the morning, i just never felt like it. I still drink the distilled water, and purified water when i can’t, take the min-col… and i started juicing alot again… mostly at night. RBTI is just more eating rules… i do like the refractometer though.
HAHAHA. nice one.
Primal is such a bitch.
For the past couple weeks I’ve been eating big breakfasts of oatmeal and fruit or eggs and fruit, and a big meal around 2, then a small dish of cooked greens, berries and a couple other raw veggies before 5 or 6. It used to be that I would skip breakfast or have 25-50 grams of whey protein powder in water/coconut milk and then have a huge dinner at 4 or 5 that sometimes had rice or potatoes but always included a huge salad with an obscene amount of lettuce. I ditched the lettuce and the olive oil and don’t miss them.
Now I feel a little bit warmer and a little more energetic. My fingertips are still cold, but that might also have to do with a case or two of frostbite over the years. Also I am more gassy and when I wake up, my eyelids feel very heavy and sluggish whereas they used to just pop open. I am most curious about the eyelid thing. I know it happens when I’ve been eating more carbs, but I can’t yet tell if it’s carbs in general or from particular sources like fruit or oats. Any insight?
Fruit and lots of oatmeal probably has way too high of a water content for you. Don’t you notice peeing a buttload after a breakfast like that? You will probably do better on drier stuff, like buckwheat pancakes with syrup and lower water content fruit. You should notice a connection between frequent urination/clear urine and cold hands and feet. Keep your urine from getting too dilute and your hands and feet should warm up some. Avoid these big peeing escapades and you won’t have the same reactions, most likely.
So you really think eating too much watery food is an important cause of hypometabolism? Interesting, because I’ve been getting most of my calories from milk, juice and oranges and am still pestered by cold feet and occasionally cold hands.
Absolutely. No question about it. I think excess fluids dilute the sugar and salt at the cellular level, leaving one in a perpetual state of something that is, from a functional standpoint, hypoglycemia and hyponatremia. Try eating foods with a lower water content. It helps a lot. Compare a breakfast of buckwheat pancakes, syrup, and eggs to a breakfast of milk, juice, fruit, and watery oatmeal. That will give you a good example of the difference. You shouldn’t be urinating more than once every 4 hours or so. If you are you are basically washed out of the most important substances for cellular energy production.
My attempt at rrarfin has included a lot of cornflakes and whole milk. Probably too much fluid? Darnnit…I knew I was peein too much at work =P Less milk more flakes I guess haha. I’ve gained like 10-15 pounds. First time I’ve ever rubbed my belly with joy hahaha. I have to tell everybody here though, it is because of danielkerns acne.org medicine that has given me the courage to consume dairy and wheat stuff. I have really bad acne problems and using this medicine makes me not worry about what I eat. Without having medicine on my face (used to do this regimen years ago and it absolutely works) I don’t think that I could do this successfully because my stress would be too high. Especially because it becomes very painful =\ My facial hair doesnt even grow right cuz of these gull dern pimples.
Hah I think I’m
I actually stopped my acne retinol and antibiotic medicine the same time I decided to forget paleo and go for the white rice. Not enjoying the look of my skin now, I’m afraid, but hoping to push through. How long did it take your skin to adjust to these changes, any of you people successful with curing your acne and digestion this w.ay?:(
sometimes if you have a lot of acne, you can accelerate the healing by using some topical stuff. I don’t like using pharmaceuticals but sometimes pimples just keep spreadin and if you stop the spreading (put out the fire) it’ll get better much faster. Maybe your skin will show some signs of ickiness for a while cuz your liver is releasing gunk that built up from gluconeogarbageness =P idk =D
Urinating once every 4 hours, how did you come to that conclusion?
The Durian rider says 10 days a day and at least 3 times at night, not that he is right of course.
For me to keep my “salts”/ conductivity down I need to be going about 10 times a day it seems. Which correlates with the rider. Maybe it is individual, I dunno. Of course the denser the diet, or saltier for example lots of cheese the more water is required, and on the reverse a high water content diet with lots of juicy fruit, the less water is required.
I do notice that if I drink too much I will feel cold and lack energy.
Also if left to my own devices I barely feel the need to drink water, or drink anything. Have always been like this. Sometimes I feel like I should just follow my instincts. If I go a day without pressurising myself to drink any amount of liquid in general, my wizz will invariably be a friendly shade of brown and brix/ salts way up. In this state I will always be super warm and generally feel better than If I am all watered up.
The DRider also suggests pissin at least 3 times at night. Now in theory it does make sense in that, why is it important to drink water/ stay properly hydrated during the day and not the night? But in practice it feels very odd. I have a very strong resistance to waking up at night with a bursting bladder. I have tried a couple of nights to drink more water before bed, all that happens is that I wake up with a bursting/ sore bladder. So I dunno.
Any of your thoughts are welcome.
Yeah it’s interesting. I generally feel much better with higher Brix. I start to cool down anywhere below 3.0. But high urea levels that typically coincide with high salts and high brix is considered to cause pain and pressure in the chest – something that I would say was my #1 complaint prior to RBTI. Yet it has more or less completely vanished with the avoidance of pork and shellfish and the drinking of distilled water.
Durianrider is absolutley nuts when it comes to him waking up to pee 3 times per night. I think this is a huge problem. One of the first questions I ask a person to gauge the severity of their metabolic damage (or whatever you wanna call it) is “Do you have to get up and pee during the night between 2 and 4 am?”
The jury is still out, but you’re not the only one to notice feeling better at higher Brix levels. Eating the Food (ETF) definitely has the tendency to bring them up. Thanks for sharing your thoughts. Interesting no doubt.
I second the peeing at night is fucked theory.
Why do raw vegans make up dumb ideas to support obvious signs of malfunction? I remember reading in Thrive diet it was a good idea to “feel colder” as your body is now running more efficiently as it does not have to struggle digesting meat. oh Mr Brazier… you mean you don’t realize your body is getting less than adequate calories so it downgrades your metabolism and the “fire” is struggling along.
Who the hell wants to wake up at night for anything let alone peeing ? if I’m waking up in the middle of the night it better be because Kim kardashian and jessica Alba decided to stalk me as a tag team and are sitting outside my window…
but peeing ?? fuk that noise.
one exception heavy alcohol consumption, drink as many glasses of water before bed with a little juice or sugar of some kind and salt wake up n go pee like a race horse every hour and sleep in. follow a “rinse and repeat” protocol like this = no hangover.
maybe Mr 30 bananas is hitting the point were the fructose is toxic like alcohol. lol
I was thinking you could have condensed this comment to something like – “If I bother to wake up in the middle of the night to let something out of my urethra, it ain’t be piss.”
Ha! Chief beat me to it. But that was sweet!
You guys make it really hard to be good… err not be bad… err yeah. Damn it!
Gonna leave that one alone :)
Oops! That comment was supposed to be in reply to Matt’s “condensed” comment. Haha.
Ugh I’m still trying to catch up on comments… so behind.
Matt – What is the relevance of getting up to pee between 2 and 4 am (as in your above comment) versus any other time of the night/early am? I find when I do need to get up to pee it is usually about 2 am, so was curious as to why this would be.
Just daily circadian rhythms. The 2-4 window is the most common time for the sugars to crash in the middle of the night.
I would add just from my recollections reading on adrenal fatigue and what not that the 2-4am window is most indicative of glycogen depletion and/or blood sugar regulation problems. Waking up between 2-4am for any reason is a red flag in my book.
So what is inherently bad with having to wake up to pee at night as opposed to any other time of day? This is tied to the RBTI thing of the drinking schedule, I do not get that either. The only way it makes sense is that in general it seems to advise do not drink or eat much after about 2pm, as in drink around food intake to keep brix/salts under control. For example I drunk 2 litres of water all day, kept brix/ salts down. Stopped drinking. Eat a huge meal in the evening then the brix/ salts exploded. For me, the water intake has to coincide with the food intake. Just water= brix/salts drop too much. Just food= brix/ salts go too high.
So in effect, I guess drinking lots of water, especially at night, with no food is going to drop the brix/salts into nothingness.
I don’t understand the whole Fruity peoples thing of drinking lots of water, plus eating lots of high water content food. If I do that brix are crashed, peeing constantly. Again, guess it is individual, perhaps living in the tropics denotes needing more water.
Would be interesting Matt if you could go round and RBTI test all of the internet blogging gurus over a whole day, and to see if you could come up with some sort of correlation of diet vs RBTI.
Would especially want to know what the Durianrider tests out as over the day, in the blog world he has one of the more extreme diets but also one of the biggest personalities whilst getting the best results he wants physically out his lifestyle.
I would guess his Brix/ conductivity/ urea would be rock bottom all day and his ph probably pretty high. Guessing of course. He seems to be high energy. If I test out like that I tend to feel extremely peaceful and relaxed in my heart, do not feel high energy but definitely not bad. If I test out the opposite I tend to feel an aggresive/ anxious / powerful feeling. I guess those two extremes are somewhat related to the fasted/ fed state.
I would think that Durianrider would be low sugar drinking all that water, and this has a very negative long-term cumulative effect. He lives in the tropics and trains. I have no doubt that increased water intake does help when you go out and train really hard in the heat. I think that’s more of his reasoning for it. I do think that disturbed sleep is not optimal. He sleeps 10-12 hours per night, so maybe he gets away with it by getting extra rest. Who knows.
Salts and ureas tend to go down with the Brix, so that is probably true. Durianrider is probably very alkaline as well, which may be advantageous for his training – allowing him to buffer huge amounts of lactic acid and thus train harder. Supposedly the best athletes are naturally alkaline.
The drinking schedule must coincide with food, and probably shouldn’t be so regimented. Just the water and salt content of your meal have a huge influence on whether or not to increase or decrease fluid intake in the hours that follow the meal. One must be flexible and not ignore their own biofeedback in this regard.
“Would especially want to know what the Durianrider tests out as over the day, in the blog world he has one of the more extreme diets but also one of the biggest personalities whilst getting the best results he wants physically out his lifestyle.”
I don’t know what you consider to be “best results” but I think Durianrider looks really bad. Seriously. He looks unhealthy. Very sickly looking in both face and body. His physique is NOT attractive at all – not to me anyway.
But everyone has their personal preferences I guess.
Personally I like a guy to have some meat on his bones – not so lean you can see defined abs. Never really liked the really muscular or six-pack look.
And l’ve heard lots of women say the same. The six-pack look impresses men more than it impresses women – well the non-shallow, un-superficial ones who can think for themselves anyway – rather than just follow the crowd on what is attractive. Generally speaking of course.
Sure Freelee is cute but she’s dumb as a box of bananas. She would have to be to follow that banana around like a puppy! :)
I find it funny how, in mainstream society in general, women dress to impress other women and men “body build” to impress other men. Hilarious.
It’s all that pecking order crap. For a man to have the confidence to get a girl in or above his league, he must feel more awesomer than other dudes. That can come from being more famous, more wealthy, more swoll, or more ripped than other dudes. Same with girls, only looks tend to be even more pivotal in the female pecking order than in the male pecking order.
Yeah. I just find it funny :)
Some people are awesome because they just are who they are. And… are totally good with that.
You’re the awesomest dude I know. And it has nothing to with fame, wealth, swoll, or outer beauty. Although you do make for sweet eye candy too. But that’s just bonus! :)
From my reading on the concepts of pick-up artists (mainly the works of Neil Strauss, the rest is too douchy) it’s far more about the confidence than any inherent trait, at least for men. Fame, wealth, ripped abs: these are just tools men can use to achieve the necessary confidence and part of the “art of seduction” is learning that the tools themselves are actually not necessary, just the confidence.
I am certainly not talking about how he looks, but since you mentioned it. He is skinny, yes, as are all good long distance sportsman. Better to be skinny than fat though eh.
What I mean by best results is that he wants to be a fast, long distance biker/ runner and his lifestyle is obviously working for him for his goals. He posts his blood tests and they seem good. He posts videos and he always appears to be living to his lifestyle and goals. He has super energy, always optimistic and gives off a good vibe.
What other health guru can you name that actually does sport/ achieves what they want with it? What other health guru posts there blood work? What other health guru follows what they preach?
Most of what you see/ read is a load of talk but not a lot of results/ action.
ps. I am not a fruit vegan. A vegan, nor a vegetarian. I eat anything and everything.
I just appreciate that he talks the talk and walks the walk.
When I was at my deepest into low-carb my weight had dropped to around 140 and I was very proud of my leanness, even though my then g/f and mother had both commented I looked “anorexic”. When I quit low-carb a la Matt Stone (thank you, Matt, by the way) I immediately developed some belly fat, unnoticeable to everybody else but very noticeable to me. My pride and my ego took a severe hit. But despite whatever my own feelings on my attractiveness may have been, I have since been called “hot” and “lean”.
Great story Aaron!
I’ve tried this for the past 2 days, had a breakfast of just eggs, bread, honey and a small glass of OJ, and so probably cut daily fluid intake by more than 2 quarts. Result, no cold feet at any time during the day and oral temp jumped up to 98.6F where it should be.
Its interesting to think that just reducing fluid intake was a far more immediate and powerful metabolic boost than any of the things I’ve tried in the past year like gobbling enormous amounts of sugar, carbs, calories, avoiding PUFAs like the plague and experimenting with stuff like gelatin and aspirin, or maybe that excess water was enough to thwart the metabolic stimulus of all of the aforementioned, and limiting it was just the last piece of the puzzle.
Ray Peat also talks a lot about the dangers of excess hydration, but then he goes on to recommend a diet almost entirely based on milk and OJ. He does mention that enough salt can offset the harms of excess water, but I never realized until I read his article on water just how much is required.
“Hyperosmotic sodium chloride solutions (e.g., 7.5%) are being used more often for treating trauma and shock, because the concentrated solution increases blood volume by removing water from the extravascular spaces, unlike the “isotonic” saline (0.9% sodium chloride), which usually adds to the edema by leaking out of the blood vessels.”
So thats about two tablespoons of salt per pint of OJ, seems infinitely saner to just limit fluid consumption. I do wonder how healthy a “drier” diet is in the long term, seems like you could get nutrient-deficient by getting too many carbs from stuff like cereals and syrups rather than fruit, since nutrient density tends to go up with water content.
Matt, when you started eating more dry foods, did you have temporarily increased thirst that later went away, or have you always just taken fluids according to thirst?
I think drinking excess fluids just washes you out of your primarily cellular metabolic fuels, salt and sugar. Keep those up and everybody’s happy, hands and feet are warm, and metabolism cranks.
As people increase strength and metabolism, the requirement for water increases, as does one’s ability to drink it without having crashes.
Yeah, eating dry food makes me need to drink more fluids. But having a breakfast of say, watery oatmeal, milk, juice, and a couple pieces of juicy fruit will have me cold and urinating wildly within a couple of hours.
I do frequently supplement minerals with my food. And because I drink milk, juice, and eat water-rich foods INSTEAD of drinking plain water, my nutrient intakes I’m sure are adequate.
Is regular pancakes okay? lol I’m poor. I only have regular syrup with hfcs an stuff too…stinkin corn. All the carbs I eat (potatoes, corn flakes, rice, sweet potatoes” )are kinda watery and I use tap water I’m F*ckin doomed bro hahaha.
I like making pancakes with a vareity of flours. Like buckwheat, spelt, a little coconut flour thrown in. Doesn’t always have to be Krusteaz mysteriously fluffy blend. I’m very fond of real maple syrple.
“Really” boys do this? I thought is was only us ladies and you Matt.
This is hysterical and hits very close to home!
After intensively reading some of your materials this weekend, I fully enjoyed a heaping 2 plates of soaked and baked oatmeal this morning and smoked turkey enchiladas for lunch. I’m regretting not buying potatoes last week for tonight’s dinner and have mashed cauliflower planned instead. Oh, well. I’ll know better next time.
Anyway, my temp has always been low, even when I barely cleared 100 pounds. 10 years and 2 kids later my temp is still low (96.2 this morning) and I’m on NatureThroid and soft in the middle. I’ve been following the nutritional advice in Nourishing Traditions combined with LC for a couple of years now (after 12 years as a vegetarian) and while I’ve lost my desire for sugar-sweets, I’m still unable to shed that last bit of belly flab. I’m curious to see if eating more carbs, which I’ve been wanting more of lately, will help boost my metabolism.
I’ve been primarily using pastured home-rendered lard as my cooking fat, and I know you recommend against lard as it has high levels of omega 6. My understanding is that pastured lard has more balance between the omegas 3 and 6. Were you referring to store-bought or home-rendered lard? I also take FCLO daily, and do not consume any veg oils.
Looking forward to enjoying ALL foods now.
Yeah, I would enjoy all foods except pork haha! And not just because of the high PUFA content. You should notice quite a boost from increasing your carbs. And increasing your sugar intake as well.
After eating a high fat diet for a long time I find it best to go easy on any oils and cooking fats in excess. You can still eat some fatty beef and lamb and ice cream and all that good stuff, but the super concentrated stuff won’t really do much for you I don’t think.
so what is the issue with pork then? I’m not following rbti , but have tried out some of the suggestions mainly regarding the timings of meals and no meat/sweets after 2. but I haven’t really followed the pork suggestion, I just don’t understand why not, especially since so many cultures eat pork as their main source of meat, and I also don’t see how corn oil can be preferred to lard! anyway, I’m making sure I have a lot more carbs than fat/protein though, so since it’s just a small part of it all, I hope it doesn’t matter that much.
I believe RBTI is mostly concerned with the immediate effects of food on body chemistry and digestion. When the body chemistry is stable and digestion is working properly, you maximize the utilization of the nutrients you’re eating.
Pork has a known effect on body chemistry. RBTI tests show it and Nourishing Traditions documents it as well.
As I understand corn oil is less concentrated and thus easier on the gallbladder and liver. Using less fats and less concentrated fats can help them decongest. RBTI does not look at the long term effects of corn oil consumption.
My understanding with RBTI is it can be very helpful if your body is out of whack and having a hard time healing. The stricter you follow it, the steadier you are holding things for your body so it has an opportunity to heal. I think once you are relatively healthy, the body should be able to maintain its own stability.
Wow, Aaron, that is really interesting. I don’t have a gall bladder and I was wondering if the “less fats and less concentrated fats” was one of the reasons I am feeling so much better on RBTI. With “Peat eats” I was eating a LOT of concentrated fat – heavy cream, slathering butter on everything, Haagen Dazs, full fat cheeses, etc. Initially I missed some of those fats and I do eat butter still, but in much smaller quantities. But as time goes on, fat has less and less appeal to me. I can barely look at Haagen Dazs now, and I used to eat half a pint EVERY DAY. As for desserts, I used to choose much heavier, richer desserts, but now I crave something lighter and more fruity. So something is definitely changing inside which is no doubt contributing to the weight loss, improved sleep, and increase in energy with RBTI. I am not forcing it, it is just happening naturally.
You know I came across something recently on the internet but can’t remember where and it talked about the agluttinating (?) effect of pork on red blood cells. They tested different porks – marinating pork in vinegar improved the body’s reaction, as did some other factors I don’t remember. Sorry. But it finally made me understand why pork is a problem, but also how to eat it more safely.
That was on the WAPF website. They should see how it effects urine if they really want to be freaked out by pork!
Matt what exactly are the effects of Pork on the urine. I got to be honest, I have never liked or enjoyed pork apart from the obvious sausages and bacon once in a blue moon. Since doing a bit of the RBTI I have done a couple pork binges to see what happens. As an example I eat 24 red wine reduced onion sausages in a day, lovely they were. NOW, to be honest I felt pretty good after eating them. IN terms of rbti numbers, Brix went up high, conductivity really high, UPH down a bit but no worse than any other meat.
I expect the Brix/ salts to go high though due to the concentrated calories, flavours, and most probably salt content. Conductivity Does not go up as high with similarily high salt food, so for me I have noticed that pork sends the salts into the stratosphere.
I could experiment with plain pork, though to be honest have never liked it nor eat it so do not see the point.
I 99% of the time avoid the nice porkies like bacon and sausages mainly due to the fact that all of the easily accesible commercial stuff contains stuff I dunno what it is, then the rbti stuff has cropped up and it just seems for the best part just to avoid it.
No one ever died of pork deficiency, though I’d guess all of Sissons fanboygirls would die of bacon deficiency eh.
Excellent observation Mr. Lee. Salts up, brix up, ureas up, urine pH down. It’s crystal clear, enough to test someone’s urine and tell who really eats a lot of pork. Maybe not with 100% consistency, but it’s pretty reliable. Shellfish has a similar effect but not nearly as pronounced.
As an interesting note here, smelling the wizz seems to give an indication of what has been eaten too.
I have noticed that for example eating something with a strong flavour will come out in the sniff test. Eat Smoked bacon and the urine will smell like smoked bacon, etc.
If you eat a lot of sweet fruit and nothing else, the urine will smell sweet. Warm sweet urine.
Likewise, eating a lot of sweet fruit makes the “other” bodily fluid that cums out of a man’s uh “urethra” taste like the fruit… or so I’ve heard. It works best with pineapple… so they say.
I thought maybe you meant this post on Food Renegade http://www.foodrenegade.com/pork-bad-for-you/ I guess glancing now it all stems from wapf. Less dark-field live blood analysis more pee-pee testin!
Oh wow, that is fascinating. Thanks for that link.
Yes, that is exactly the one I was talking about. Thanks.
I’m not sure I know any cultures that eat a lot of lard and pork that are significantly healthier than anyone else. Pacific islanders probably consume the most, and have the highest level of obesity by far (Tonga, Nauru, Kosrae, Hawaii, etc.)
hmmm I’m not a researcher so I’m not really sure about these facts also, don’t bash me if I’m wrong, but the Chinese traditionally used lots of lard, and its my mum’s preferred meat for making stock too, as is for the Japanese, especially the Okinawans. And the Italians LOVE their charcuterie too.
I know the chinese don’t have the healthiest rep around nowadays due to the heavy use of veg oils and msg but those I know who keep to very much the tcm way of eating are astonishingly healthy at an old age. And I know the general idea is that Italians use olive oil more, but they do consume quite a bit of lard in their salami and pancetta.
ok again, don’t bash me up if I’m wrong anywhere, just giving my 2cents. I’m definitely no expert.
The Japanese and Okinawans, and Chinese as well, eat a very low fat diet compared to most of Europe and North America. Of course, it depends entirely where you are. Some regions of China they only eat something like 6% of their calories as fat. But I don’t really have these types of discussions anymore, as they are circular and don’t get anywhere. You can find healthy people eating anything. You can find unhealthy people eating the same thing. Not many solid conclusions can be drawn from any type of epidemiological study. What matters is whether or not your health will improve by adding processed pork products to your diet. And the answer is, it will make your health worse, not better. Generally speaking. Unless you are a vegan. Then it will be like a miracle food!
I watched my entire family’s health decline eating pastured pork from a local farmer. Tastiest thing I ever ate though. Hands down.
What you and Matt both are doing is awesome. I hope that one day I can help people like you guys too. I am the metal recycler. One day I might pay you to give me an eating schedule lol. I feel like I have to be light and not digesting much at work to be at my best. That leaves a small breakfast, and some kinda huge meal stuff after work lol. And winter is brewing up quick, I gotta get good at this body temperature stuff (hands and feet) cuz I gotta be optimally toasty for the metal mania.
“I watched my entire family’s health decline eating pastured pork from a local farmer.” i’m sure they were eating other things besides pork during that time too, so it’s a bit hard to pinpoint that down to pork exactly..
gosh `i sound liek a total pork lover don’t i. really, I dont even have meat that often, a lot more eggs, and smaller amounts of protein, a lot more carbs in teh form of rice and fruits. I just cant help feeling curious.
“you can find healthy people eating anything. You can find unhealthy people eating the same thing. Not many solid conclusions can be drawn from any type of epidemiological study.” gold statement. I think what’s most impt is to monitor our own body, and see how we react to different foods!
Yeah, that’s kinda where I’m at. I would like to leave conversations about what someone else ate in the dust if possible. And move beyond that into what can work now. Using nutrition more surgically.
hmm winter was always slow for me in metal mania too much snow everywhere lol.
thanks for the recognition.
its very difficult to give someone advice that pertains to everything in their life a simple comment. for the odd tip an tweak it feels rewarding to help people, money has little to no motivation for me personally. It’s just fixing major issues takes time and a dollar amount makes people limit a bit otherwise I’d do it all for free. I would probably say your pimples and digestion are related and it would most likely take a lot of work to isolate the issue but it’s not at all impossible.
you may want to avoid milk/dairy for a while and see if there is any improvement over the course of a few weeks. I’ve seen that be an issue for a few people in that situation. without going into all your history and spending hours analyzing the data it would be difficult to say for sure where you stand. keep at it Bob
Thank you very much for your reply. I will be keepin at it! I’m gonna keep eatin dairy for now while im eating giant meals, an experiment with milky abstinence some otha time. I have stopped dairy and grains totally at one point and it did make my face better atleast I thought it did, but I never really have sustained anything long enough to know what does what..Life is too goofy to do that stuff sometimes. I will be following your blog now I think. I read something last night about you tryin to eat thirty bananas but then you went to a buffet afterwards. I didnt understand if you vomited or what lol. When I make more money in the future Golden Coral is the buffet option I have here =P On marksdailyapple there is a new section called “success stories in the making” for the new years. 400 people I think with their before photos. Someone go save them. Just one more thing..if anyone is still reading…If a lot of people try eatin “primal, paleo” whatevs and it makes you feel great at first but then you get adrenal fatigue or whatever the hell, how is Mark Sisson still “feeling good” if he really is? I know that thirty banana bloak says its cuz of the coffee, the huge salads and cabernet haha.
no Bob I did not vomit, I gagged the last few bananas but no vomit, I figure it just moved things along, I was probably averaging 5000 calories a day at that time, the bananas simply were not enough, Everyone tends to think volume makes them “full” but if the volume is low in calories it wont make you “full” for very long especially if your digestion is working properly.
Were they small bananas? lol. I thought I could eat a lot. I managed to muster down 7 really big ones once and started to feel a bit uneasy. The only reason I stopped is because I was at work and couldn’t necessarily deal with the aftermath lol. But I know exactly what you mean! You only stay full for a little while, and with the bananas I even feel like it makes you hungrier than before. I suppose this differs with ripeness…..
I along with Matt and some others tried that 30 bananas a day experiment too. OMFG never again. I think I quit on day 2 or 3 and I seriously doubt I was getting in all 30 bananas. If you want to vomit at the sight of a banana, then by all means, try doing 30 bananas a day.
My research has shown lard to be comparable to duck fat in terms of the amount of PUFAs. While I do eat pork and will continue to do so, it is once a week or so, considerably less often than I eat other meats. Also, the pork and fat I eat comes from a source I am comfortable with (certainly not the grocery store). Pork is a hot topic, for sure, but I don’t see it as any more harmful than eating the occasional meal out or pint of Ben and Jerry’s.
That’s because you don’t test people’s urine and see that pork causes massive destabilization to body chemistry. More so than any single food.
You need to drink Jack with it. It corrects the numbers.
Epic Meal Time Formula For Success:
ETF + Bacon + Jack Daniels = Fame, Money & Chicks = WINNING!!!
awesome Idea, kind of like when you punch your friend in the face so he forgets about his broken leg till the ambulance gets there.
dilute the poison with …poison ! your body is too busy processing jack daniels and just ejects all the bacon! winning winning winning
RBTI aside (I don’t follow it either), I am of the opinion that pork fat is one of the most fattening things you can eat, probably due to the O6 content, but maybe it’s other stuff, too. It probably is not helpful if you are trying to lose weight. I don’t really have scientific evidence to back this up (although maybe it exists, haven’t looked) but I’ve seen it with myself and in others. Ghee, on the other hand, I find to be a very slimming fat.
Fatty acid profile of lard depends heavily on the pig’s diet. In most cases we’d encounter, I’m guessing it’s high-PUFA, but that isn’t always the case.
thanks for the reply both of you! could it be then, that the reason why rbti tests show that pork/lard affects body composition is because they are testing the pork/lard that are raised in today’s conditions, i.e. possibly the pufa issue? I’m just trying to make sense of how such a popularly used fat in traditional healthy cultures have thrived on it.
oh and amy, for me weight is not an issue, just health esp in terms of digestion and skin. I don’t really think in terms of how fattening a food is, just whether it does my body good. I made ghee before, but still like it in its butter state (:
oh and very good clarification brought about that rbti aims to restore health quicklym but may not be the long term way to go. I do hope that one day I’ll be able to reach that stage of stability, that I can eat whatever I want, whenever I want, like what many here have (:
I doubt it. My understanding is Reams did a lot of different tests involving pork and found no situation where it didn’t affect body chemistry. I don’t think it’s related to the fatty acid content. It’s presumably related to some protein and the part that mentions pork’s effect on body chemistry in Nourishing Traditions is in the section on proteins. Supposedly, RBTI tests show pork contamination even when using pots and pans that were previously used to cook pork, but that may depend on how sensitive a person is.
By the way, Matt did you see this NY Times article by Tara Parker-Pope: http://www.nytimes.com/2012/01/01/magazine/tara-parker-pope-fat-trap.html?ref=nutrition
You should do a post on this. She’s obviously a diet victim.
Tara Parker Pope is an idiot. And yes I saw it. I would take health advice from Dr. Phil or Ooprah before I took it from her.
Agreed…scary thing is, a lot of people listen to this woman
Love the article! In my case, I “broke up” with Ray Peat last summer and now I’m back for a reunion, and trying things a little differently. So there’s got to be a relationship joke in there somewhere.
Still having a hard time with dairy – I’m stuffy and congested and just trying to last through it for awhile to see if I can adapt. Too bad mucus isn’t worth money – I’m a non-stop factory!
I’ve gained 20lbs over the last year – not good, and I’m at the point where even my “fat jeans” are getting too tight – which of course is when panic sets in. The problem is that I know I can lean out with low-carb, high-raw and intense cardio, it’s just that I feel miserable doing it and never sustain it. Right now, adding dairy and orange juice (I make OJ gelatin for breakfast – which is yum!), I’m still seeing the scale number creep up. Oh, how I’d like to think it’s just “restocking the glycogen supplies” but seeing my face get all puffy is making me think otherwise (but I do have to report a little bit of a flatter stomach, which makes me think I’m working on the cortisol issues).
Oh, I should throw in that I’m also a recovering WAPF-er (chapter leader, in fact).
Love reading the blog! Keep up the great work.
I did “Peat eats” for a year and gained 30 lbs.! I don’t know anyone who has follwed Peat’s dietary recommendations who hasn’t gained weight. If you are trying to lose weight, you might want to take a peek at RBTI. It sure is the most fun I have ever had losing weight!
You ate high fat and Peat recommends low fat. Just because anyone drinks/eats milk, orange juice, gelatin and fruits doesn’t mean that this is a “Peat diet”.
He told me several times to eat Haagen Dazs at night to help with my sleep issues. (Which only got worse, by the way.) Nothing very low fat about Haagen Dazs!
You missunderstood him. Ray recommends a bit more fat before bed, but low fat during the day. That’s why he never recommends whole milk.
So he recommends that you eat low fat, but eat most of the fat before bed.
He actually advised against low fat milk when I started in 2010 because of the added vitamins, which can be allergenic. He only started mentioning low fat milk last year, probably as a result of so many people reporting that they gained weight.
Back in 2010 he drank low fat milk and he still drinks low fat milk.
Haagen Dazs late at night is what caused my sleep problem.
Why a recovering WAPF-er? Their premise is much the same as discussed here. Just curious as I recently started a chapter.
I appreciate the “whole foods” aspects of WAPF but I’ve come to agree with Peat that fish oil is not a healthly miracle supplement. I was also very discouraged how much grains were pushed, and that gluten problems were dismissed as “because the bread wasn’t prepared properly.” YMMV of course.
Try eating more food less often. That was really all it took to switch me from gaining to losing. I think my personal problem with Peat’s ideas was that eating very frequently, particularly sugar and fat mixed together, really made my appetite go up and up and up until I was waking up in the middle of the night starving despite eating 4,000 calories the day before. I think you’ll find you can get away with eating pretty much anything if you spend some extra time in the fasted state.
I don’t know, I’m very thin and I eat more frequently. I think that fat-sugar combo is the bigger problem with the peat weight gain.
Maybe you are both right, maybe it is the fat/sugar combo when eaten frequently or at the wrong times of the day. I gained 30 lbs. with Peat but have lost 10 pounds on RBTi, and I eat lots of things on RBTI combining fat and sugar, but it is only at breakfast and lunch – no snacks, light dinner, no fat/sugar combos (no meat or sweets) after 2:00 P.M.
BINGO, but what a second high sugar = high fructose = technically high fat anyway
so comes back to eating non stop like pac man….
Huh? Bingo eating all day causes weight gain, or Bingo fat/sugar combo causes weight gain, or Bingo fat/sugar combo after 2pm causes weight gain? Or eaten at the wrong times of day, which may be different for different people?
sorry, lol I mean’t bingo as in, it is a step in the right direction. It’s complex. Eating anything in and of itself does not equal automatic weight gain but as Cathy’s statement eluded, it’s more complex.
1.) I think fat and sugar in abundance plays a role bottlenecking in the liver and perhaps causing disfunction elsewhere in the way it is processed but this is still within a certain context.
high sugar and high fat are more or less the same when isolated .
2.) Eating hagen daz type foods late at night, especially right before sleeping and/or staying up a few hours and eating when you normally sleep most likely has an effect ( sumo are my inspiration here) I’ve tested it with quite a few unsuspecting girlfriends that followed along with me just cuz they “wanted some ice cream too,” and it seems to correlate.
3.) eating any high calorie density foods regardless of source which leads to a cellular excess at the wrong time of day can lead to disfunction which this disfunction can certainly help weight gain, not actually cause it in ever case but certainly make it difficult to lose or prevent. this is major stress to the system and stress = fat. in some cases the effects are less severe and go unnoticed.
4.) certain people ( primarily based on their eating history sometimes due to genetics) can see different effects, especially in the short term. this is where the “Oh shit sugar makes me fat” kind of things pop up after their “careful” analysis that lasted a “super scientifically adequate ” 3 days!! then their friend says “Ray Peat is our leader on planet earth eat the Hagen daz bitch!”
5.) fructose in a mixed diet has some “magical” properties that accelerates weight gain. I use it when I gain fat on purpose but I also do not avoid it in my normal eating out right so context is key.
6.) frequent eating like this without any output to balance it out is the major culprit. this is how “drink pepsi all day long marathon runners” are on one of the spectrum and yours truly Mr eat 7000 cal in one sitting and still lose weight is on the other end of the spectrum. ( well one of the reasons, its not that cut and dry lol )
this is where the 2 pm comes into play, it’s not a magic number but from what I understand with RBTI they eat light at night. salads, veggies and soups do not qualify as “real eating ” compared to the Epic lunch” and as most of the calories are eaten at one time in the day this is no different than what I do. they are sort of “cheat” fasting with a salad at night. I do that all the time like if I have a business meeting at lunch, I don’t sit all awkward not eating, that will throw a deal down the “mr hanky chute” real quick. I eat a salad and just say I’m not that hungry. If I was to eat card board or lettuce my body would react the same way, “huh what did we just eat ?” so it’s not technically “eating” and is the reason many raw vegans eventually look like zombies and can’t arm wrestle my pinky.
Wow, you have a lot of fascinating insights! Looking forward to more blog posts!
chief, besides that idea of feasting/unconscious fasting, do you follow any of the other rbti recommendations i.e. the food restrictions, the lemon water etc?
looking forward to more blog posts too!!
It has been quite a strange thing for me as I have never heard of it ( I used to live in the library so this is odd) until I got emails this summer saying “matt has a pee pee tester your missing epic discoveries”. did a quick check and was blown away he was now avoiding pork, which I stress heavily in my consultations. during part of the balance phase I recommend distilled water, not so anal about it after recovery because your not drinking much straight water and the body becomes pretty resilient but at least to get things to square one “I flush toxins”. In many peoples salt and sugar have become toxic some trace minerals too so If you follow my comments I have been talking about distilled water for this purpose in my early comments before RBTI came along to 180. I first got turned on to that by a medicine man talking bout the drippings of boiling water. maple tree sap/water is probably very similar to lemon water. I use that at times.
it has trace minerals and very little sugar. Too bad he is not alive to “chop game”
much like Reams I have been attacked for my “crazy” reasons for avoiding pork but you cant deny my success apparently he had quite a bit himself.
I don’t understand how he was pretty obese if he understood so much, perhaps he wasn’t nutty enough like me eating buffets like a bad ass.
there was a piece in Havard magazine about the link between crazy and genius so feel free to get a little crazy for the creative thoughts will pop :).
I tell them to avoid seeds at this time too and straight sugar for the novice so technically that cuts chocolate but I have pounded it in a weight loss phase so I’m not sure that is a no no in my book at least not on it’s own. Everything is done on a case by case basis but, distilled water, fasting and pork pop up universally as there is no way around them for a damaged system. closest thing to urine testing I do is when I smell pork in the sweat of my students in the gym and I catch em “cheating” so to speak. they start believing at this point that 1) I know what I am talking about 2.) it must have an effect on the body if I can smell it.
I know the smell of a woman like Al Pacino, and when they are wearing “Eau de porc” perfume they never make it past a slow dance with me. the smell only gets more intense with sweating. and to quote Ton Loc “that’s what happens when bodies start slappin’ from doing the wild thing”
I love that movie… Scent of a Woman.
Chief, interesting that you can smell the pork in sweat. I usually notice a change in the “scent” of my sweat when I eat meat in general – never pork though. I can go days without showering, and have no unpleasant sweat odor, as long as I’ve eaten no meat. But when I eat meat I can usually smell a difference the next morning.
And yes I have gone days without showering for experimental reasons. And for research. Hey I really like to experiment. And I really really like to research. Okay?! I shoulda been a scientist. Hey maybe I will do that too someday! :)
Haven’t paid so close attention to notice if there’s any difference between different kinds of meat though. And again I never eat pork. Well never on purpose – surely traces of it sneak in at my buffet feasts.
Anyway, curious what your observations (if any) are with other meat? And your insights on meat in general. Which meats and how much do you typically eat? Why?
Also, since you’re an IFer too, I’m curious what your fluid intake is like in a typical day? I know you work out and stuff too though. So what’s a typical light (no work out or hard labor) day of fluids for you? What do you drink and how much and why?
Just curious. And for research lol. I can’t help myself. Help! :)
I can smell a whole bunch of stuff in sweat, milk in large amounts, spices etc. Usually chicken in excess or beef in excess will be potent enough to smell from a distance in a trainee and they have very contrasting scents. I’m guessing anything shows up when the body is having trouble working through it. There is most definitely a huge difference in vegetarian vs a high junk food high meat omnivore and even in some cases where a vegetarian eats it very infrequently. The noticeable difference is even more so in individuals I call out of balance or balanced. in these cases a person can be omnivore and smell nearly the same as a vegetarian when balanced. I personally have done a “quick flip” into balance and repulsed myself for a while. Oh and the fat-loss phase lets out all kinds of stank even breath can change.
As for fluid and meat it can vary from day to day some days when I don’t work out and nobody puts a blanket on me when I sleep( meaning i don’t sweat), I probably don’t drink at all. Other days I’ll down 8 sodas at a buffet it all depends. Most of our traditional recipes call for soups to be real hearty so aside from the occasional water when i’m thirsty at home in conjunction with a meal it doesn’t happen. I experiment alot so it varies and it is certainly not possible to take what I ate one day and replicate it with good results. I usually let my thirst dictate the fluids not out of any habit or system. Some people say I eat alot of meat some people say I eat alot of veggies.
I don’t go into eating with any time of preset amounts I would say I mostly eat carbs. corn, beans andsquash when I’m home, potatoes and things like that at buffets sometimes it will be high in meat for a while and then not for a while it all depends.
I think people that have a plan before they eat can’t possibly be eating intuitively. I’ll eat just about anything but pork and bear meat. Deer and Moose being my favs, salmon and walleye fish wise just about any fish really. Beef and sometimes chicken and lamb when im out an about.
“I usually let my thirst dictate the fluids not out of any habit or system.”
“I don’t go into eating with any time of preset amounts…”
“I think people that have a plan before they eat can’t possibly be eating intuitively.”
Totally agree. I know you go with your intuition which is why I was curious what your intuition usually tells you. Especially being an IFer.
Never had moose (yet) but I have had deer. Fish (salmon & tilapia my favs) and beef (prime rib my fav) are my main meat preferences. Lamb is good too but I don’t eat it very often. Don’t care much for chicken but I do eat a little of it at buffets and if that’s what people cook when I’m at their place for a meal, etc.
I rarely feel thirsty like I need to drink extra fluid but I do so only when I feel thirsty.
Thanks for sharing Chief!
Thanks a lot for the reply! That’s amazing,how you can just smell it like that. I love that statement about how people who have a plan before they eat can’t be eating intuitively. That’s why I’m curious about rbti because it seems very rule based instead of intuition based.
Wait a second not what a second lol
It’s because you really don’t understand the mechanism behind Peat’s recommendations. His diet inhibits lipolysis and therefore weight gain in the beginning is typical. I gained weight and my girlfriend, too. We both lost the weight slowly during some months and when we did everything Peat recommends. And now you’re losing weight because of stress-driven lipolysis (fasting method from Stone for example).
So chest pains, excessive mucous production, body fat gain, increased physical pain (feet and lower back mostly), extreme hunger, sleep problems, and bleeding gums are all positive signs of preventing lipolysis and healing too I imagine. Man I gotta get more ice cream and orange juice in me!
And let’s not forget the constipation from HELL!
Another thing: Peat doesn’t recommend a completely diet change because it’s very stressful. The diet should be changed slowly. Constipation is often from not having enough magnesium.
So how did your diet look like? I already said that having milk, juice, gelatin and fruits doesn’t make a Peat diet. I know several ways where you can go in the wrong way (from myself). Even eating only healthy foods could be harmful. And I’m sure you made a lot wrong because you don’t know a lot about health.
Maybe this article about pork helps
When are you going to do your “hit piece” :-) on Jon Gabriel?
When I’m in the mood for it. Although, I’m kinda over it now. Should have written it when I was in the mood a couple weeks ago!
What’s a hit piece? I am thinking something more like a Mafia hit? HAHA.
Um, I have a very stupid question… how the hell do I get myself one of those wee pictures there? I’m tired of being a blue power switch.
sign up for this freebee
This will sound like an even more stupid answer, especially since my pic is visible… I have no clue.
lol, I can solve that mystery , you use word press, and wordpress and gravitar are in bed together like some of your Ex-girlfriends “low carb” and “paleo”.
Haha nice. Thanks for that Chief, thanks for nuthin Matt :)
although in doing that i just outed myself as the pretend ex-girlfriend up there… woops.
Have had the courage to ETF for the past 3 days – I have gained 5 pounds – is that normal? Any idea when that could turn around?
If you know how much your weight has changed, you are certainly not in alignment with what the program is all about.
But most of this weight is glycogen and the fluid that is stored with it. Along with extra food mass in the intestines. And maybe a pound of fat if you were really going crazy with it.
I actually weight each week at the chiropractor – no scale at home :)
My husband has commented on how much energy I have –
That’s the spirit!!!
Hi bev, I highly doubt your body created 5 pounds of fat in 3 days
you might understand what I mean reading this :
so when do you bring some post about your weightloss programm on a high caloire diet?
And some post on buildung muscle and stuff?
working at them, slowly crankin’ them out.. been busy with a lot of consulting clients, music, design clients, product testing, helping elders, a non profit organization start up, dealing with publisher bulI.. sorry trying to look past my perfectionism and do the do with the blog the posts are coming.
I am starting a fully documented run of the buffet badass thing for the blog. This requires alot of set up I’ve been busy in the bush where there’s no buffets lol
I’ll be doing an intro to feasting in the next 2 days complete with pics of past weight loss eating sprees. Muscle building is kinda boring to me at this point in terms of writing but there will be at least one this week. I’m putting another fasting one up sometime tonight and maybe 2 others if the phone stops ringing… .
Okay thanks, looking forward! :)
OK, this is best I can do for 10 minutes are work…feel free to substitue in-laws for anyone else who fits the bill.
In-laws: You are excited to see them at first
Diet: You are excited to try it at first…this one will be different!
In-laws: You welcome them into your home, and are very gracious
Diet: You willingly enter into the diet, and change your life around it according to the plan
In-laws: For a while, you have a lot to talk about
Diet: For a while, you can tolerate the food and exercise requirements
In-laws: After a while, you run out of things to talk about and do
Diet: After some time, you start getting tired of the food deprivation and tiring exercise
In-laws: The smallest thing they do starts to get on your nerves
Diet: Cravings and lack of energy start to build and build, further wearing you down
In-laws: Soon, even the sight of them plopped on the couch makes you sick
Diet: Getting up to another day of not eating what you want and doing what you want takes it’s toll
In-laws: You start finding excuses to leave the house to get away
Diet: You start sneaking in “bad” foods like “evil” carbs, and maybe skip some workouts
In-laws: They decide to extend their trip, much to your dismay
Diet: The guilt of cheating sets in and you try to recommit to the diet plan
In-laws: They begin to complain and moan, and your wife and mother-in-law start fighting a lot
Diet: Your body begins to revolt you fighting it, and intensifies cravings and fat gain
In-laws: They finally leave in what is perhaps the longest good bye ever
Diet: You finally decide to stop the plan and get some sanity (and health) back
In-laws: They aren’t gone a day when they call to check in
Diet: You find it hard to let go of the diet mentality (calorie counting, rating foods, etc.)
In-laws: They schedule another visit and can’t wait to stay with you…for an even longer time!
Diet: You relapse and go back to the diet (or try a new one), and the twisted tale begins again.
Nice John. Thanks for playing!
What’s missing here is the importance of exercise in dieting. That gives you energy, a sexy glow, better erections (if you’re a man), renewed desire (if you’re a woman), confidance, etc. Read more about it and watch a fun French video on the joys of exercise: http://www.vixendivorcee.com/2011/11/22/solace-for-a-grieving-heart-2/#more-228
I loved this article!!! So funny, so true.
I’ve been “lurking” around your site (old & new) & the blog for a couple of months and this is my first time to say hi.
I love your approach – how most diets are extreme, unnatural & unsustainable, but the more I read the more confused I am getting & am now at the point when I don’t know what to eat anymore. Do you still stand over EVERYTHING you have in RRARF / HED? Do you view that document as only partially correct now, with your changing opinions?
Would you consider writing a “Start here; top changes for everyone to make, starting from most important…” type article or is that just way too oversimplified?
I am just looking for optimum health for now the future (have no major problems) & reasonable bodyfat levels (only a couple of spare belly-pounds to lose, no longer striving for six-pack etc!). Started low-carb via 4-Hour Body, but ran into – er…man problems ;-) after a while, so ditched it despite losing weight easily on it.
Confused, confused, confused.
I made a few revisions to the original RRARF, and those, as well as some other new stuff, is in Diet Recovery. That is my most current stuff as far as the general stuff goes. It is not too specific really, as the whole concept behind general information has become less and less specific – as each person’s needs are so variable – something that took me a long time to fully appreciate.
But you’ll figure out what you want to eat and thrive best on, and at the end no one will be able to tell you what you should eat.
Thanks for the reply Matt, I know you must be very busy!
Ok – so I have just purchased Diet Recovery (& 180 Degree Digestion too). I would love to purchase the complete package, but finances & wariness of “obsessing” held me back for now…
I look forward to devouring, er slowly digesting, these books.
By way of intro to the interesting community of commenters on the site, here is (a partial account of) my road to ruin, as referenced by books…
Vegetarian for the best part (worst part?) of a decade – thanks to “Why You Don’t Need Meat” by Peter Cox. By the end of 9 years my body was screaming for help, constantly hungry, massive reliance on all things wheat etc.
A couple of years after that I started to believe in all things Paleo via Loren Cordain’s books (in fact I now realise that I STILL tend to be a sucker in believing the whole ‘evolutionary’ diet line. I believe that too much of these arguments depend on the unchallenged dogma that we cannot have changed or evolved at all in the past 40,000 years. Epigenetics or something similar will topple the ‘slow change’ paradigm. Lamarck will rise again!!!).
Then it was Tim Ferriss & 4-Hour Body (although I am grateful that he did open my ideas to self-experimentation / self-testing etc)
Primal Blueprint (but thumbs up to his exercise approach, much more realistic than CrossFit & other extreme stuff)
New Evolution Diet – Art De Vany
I should add that by and large I waded around the edge of these diets & lifestyles, always finding a new cause to jump onto, just before getting in too deep. (Maybe this was a good thing after all!)
Anyway – “Hi” to you all, you have provided some very interesting & informative discussion here. And thanks again Matt.
Welcome to the long, slow road back to normality.
I have been down very similiar roads although not as long. I don’t know if you know who Sean Croxton is, but his blog talk radio has caused my brain to hemorrhage. I started following Sean years ago and my has he become much more productive lol. I think he means well but his shows, and all the people with differing views, discretion is advised. I know a lot of people that have had to pass “stones” an cuttin down water intake is a bit scary to me, but I will read more, and do it anyways =) What really causes stones (what the hell do u call that?) somebody answer! Pop macaroni and pizza rolls? lol
Just from the title I knew I’d like this post.
Haven’t been around because my new boyfriend, RBTI, was trying to control my life – telling me what and when to drink, and how much at a time; what to eat, how to eat. He was making me feel bad. I was apathetic. I was getting sicker and sicker. He was bringing back health issues I haven’t had for 20 years. I was hiding from my friends and family because I didn’t want to hear them tell me how foolish I was being. There were a few good moments that kept me hanging on, but not enough to keep it going. So I kicked him to the curb and when back to my old boyfriend, ETF. Sure, he made me fat, which is why I ditched him in the first place, but he likes me like that and makes me feel good. Especially in the bedroom, and hey, we all know that’s what matters most to me. I’m much happier again, so I can now look with favor upon the internet dating site (180degreehealth) where I keep meeting these guys.
oops that ETF comment below was meant for you Lorelei
Glad to hear you’re keeping yourself happy Lorelei… I am relaxing more and more of the RBTI rules (mostly the meal timing and not eating certain foods at certain times of the day) and finding myself better off (she says crossing her fingers, toes, arms, legs and eyes) for it. It seems that RBTI just does not play well with some people and maybe you’re one of those people. Good on you for listening to yourself. I’m trying to do more of that too. And one day when we’re both healthy and happy let’s do that house swap!
Still doing the big lunch and avoiding pig and chocolate. Not sure how I feel on sea salt. Regular stuff tastes like crap.
It may be that RBTI and I just weren’t communicating properly. After all, I was pretty afraid to commit completely to him. And he did have some good points. Like now I know not to drink water or eat oatmeal. So he wasn’t a complete loser.
But you know, I started having auto-immune issues that I haven’t had in 20 years, my period went down to 18 days, and I was back to just doin’ it to keep the hubby satisfied. On top of feeling like I could care less about anything. So it didn’t matter whether it was me or him, it wasn’t working out.
But yes, a house swap is still so in order. Thank goodness you told me you were Sam or I would’ve been a bit worried about some stalker!
Nice. That’s exactly the commentary I was wanting outta you Hawaii Girl.
You know I live to please you. Wish Nipper would chime in, boy she’s funny. Maybe it should have been about cars instead.
And hey, I still hate how the comments play out now. I was hoping I’d get used to it (being one of those people who doesn’t do well with change), but I still find I miss out on a lot of what people say because it’s not in chronological order. Boo.
Was thinking about some of the more intrusive aspects of RBTI a few weeks ago and remembered a website I’d found back when I was new to alternative heath and researching colon cleansing. It was something I was thinking you’d enjoy. Warning, it’s not for the easily disgusted or offended (but hey, what are you doing on 180 if you belong in that category?).
I would prefer the comments to be in strict chronological order too. I can understand this system but most times I just avoid the comments cos I can’t be bothered to go back through them all to see if I have missed a new reply in a sub convo.
I agree with Lorelei and Lee about the comments. It is way too hard trying to follow them in this format.
Lorelei, I think you know I had the same sort of experience. I truly think RBTI is not for some people. I don’t know if it’s adrenal fatigue, yeast, or extent of demineralization or some other hormonal thing, but it did nothing good to my system and I am still recovering. I hope you make a quicker recovery than I did.
ETF! … ahh how the ladies always come back to us bad boy archetypes ;)
Oh Dear God now I have to head back to the bedroom again just thinking about Chief and bad boys…
I need to find the happy medium of randiness… somewhere between 16yo boy on a high carb diet and recently just gave birth to the 3rd kid while eating paleo… because this seriously cuts into my productivity.
The title suits a lot to your post. It is human nature to go behind a new one whether it is a girl or a new diet routine.
like the diet rehab book so far Matt, keep up the good work!
As an aside to my comments on your latest (awesome!) post on your blog and for further discussion of the ‘benefits’ of fasting…
Regarding something you said in your RBTI comment above:
(replies are getting too congested up there so starting a new one lol).
“I don’t understand how he [Reams of RBTI] was pretty obese if he understood so much, perhaps he wasn’t nutty enough like me eating buffets like a bad ass.”
So interesting you said that. I have been thinking/researching a lot about fasting and the 2pm rules of RBTI. And I think it’s possible that the ‘reasons’ for the 2pm rules (or the reasons the numbers ‘seemed’ to establish the 2pm rules) were perhaps caused by eating too often, in general – the 3 (or more) meals a day thing that people just can’t seem to move away from. Not even the likes of Reams or Challen for that matter.
I wonder if the numbers would tell a different story – a drastic contrast in the numbers when a person eats only one big feast a day – whether it’s before or after 2pm. But especially curious about the numbers when feasting AFTER 2pm, in terms of the 2pm rules. Would make for an interesting experiment for sure – to me anyway :)
I am also curious about the numbers when feasting after 2pm. I’m pretty sure that having the big meal at night raises the saliva pH, but would be great if somebody could experiment to see what does actually happen to the numbers.
I would do it, but, since following the RBTI meal timings and guidelines I have lost weight eating pretty much whatever I want (except for the no-no’s of course!!) and I can now go quite comfortably between meals with no need for snacking, whereas before I would have to be snacking on something every couple of hours, plus I sleep so much better :) so I don’t want to mess with something that’s working so well!!
I think, like AaronF pointed out, that the body can probably acclimate to just about anything. Yeah, if you are used to eating before 2pm and you eat a big feast late at night, it will mess you up big time. That’s pretty much everyone’s experience that I’ve heard from. But a few weeks of consistently eating a late night feast instead would give the body time to adjust, theoretically speaking. So who knows. But I hear you on the RBTI meal timing causing pretty effortless weight loss and all that. I have trouble matching those results when I try something different. But my even longer fasting period recently has made it even more comfortable to go long periods without food – stable and solid the whole time. Amen to that being awesome. It is very freeing. Food is no longer my master haha.
How is your IF’ing going? I know you were getting more into it…what is your weekly schedule like? Are you doing daily fasting?
Kind of a haphazard schedule now. If I fast in the morning I stay ice cold and pee a lot until I eat. This isn’t very reassuring. Nor does it seem to have any fat loss triggering effect. What I like most is being totally hunger proof. I mean, I can go for frickin’ ever without eating or feeling hungry/tired/irritable etc. Just rock solid, except for the coldness creeping over me as I get deeper and deeper into the fasted state. So I guess it’s pretty cool, but there are some kinds needing to be worked out. Things seem to work out best with a big breakfast and big lunch and no dinner – from a warmth and anti-sugar-crash point of view. But eating big late has some advantages too, like raging high metabolism during the maximum nocturnal fat burning period. I don’t know. It’s interesting to play around with though. No conclusive thoughts about it just yet.
Matt, for your adjusting phase I think its too drastic to jump from fasting into sleep and going directly to fasting out of sleep. I would go from RBTI style to Chief style by reverting back to all day eating first. I would use more of a snack approach from the time you get up till supper then gradually move the window up in time during the AM as the cold feeling is not present when you move it. You already know this, but for the rest of them out there the ” Ice cold ” he is talking about is a bad sign in fasting. In my experience if you can tinker with it until a 24 hour fast is possible without the cold feeling then 3 days is just as easy and you can jump. for some reason 3 days seems to be the human threshold. On the other hand playing around with times in the 24 hour period do not seem to have this leap and bound ability. Attempting to shift overnight by more than a few hours from the previous day in any significant amount of eating during a period of day seems to have bad effects especially in those who are making early adjustments to fasting from a more all day approach.
I agree, and was having problems trying to sort it out. Plus, I noticed recently when hanging out with a friend of mine that as soon as I ate breakfast I started getting leaner instantly. And was no longer cold. Okay, I will try to snack all day and then eat like a “badass” in the evening, then gradually up the time at which I have my first snack. That sounds like a plan. Thanks Chiefy.
you might also need a pretty large snack in the beginning at what ever time you had a meal time established and then sort of ween yourself off of the morning meal size. which will kind of become automatic as you badass enough at supper the night before. this is where I see natural patterns emerging in people. They eat heavy enough the evening before they are still satiated in the morning and definitely not cold and irritable. It works the same with lunch eating big only it drifts in time for many people, I see supper being more of a solid anchor.
“They eat heavy enough the evening before they are still satiated in the morning”
I guess that was why I never felt hungry in the morning when I used to unintentionally fast all day (cause I never got hungry or thought about food) and then finally get hungry in the evening and eat!! :)
“It works the same with lunch eating big only it drifts in time for many people, I see supper being more of a solid anchor.”
Interesting you said that. My only trouble now (on the lunch feast schedule) is just remembering to eat at lunchtime lol. I try to eat before 2pm. But it doesn’t always happen lol. When I make plans to “do lunch” with friends, no problem, I don’t forget. But if not, I tend to get busy (never think about food) and then the day gets away from me. So sometimes I still end up not eating until about 5pm. Ugh! Food is so freakin’ inconvenient damn it! lol
It’s time to just go to the freakin’ beach already and FTFF!! Ten points to the first person to decode that one :)
Fuck That Fuckin’ Fucker ?
Nope that’s not it lol. But great guess though Chief!
Fuck the Fuckin Food?
LOL Another good guess! But nope.
I think the transition to my current fasting schedule (feast at lunch) was easier on me because I had already been experimenting with the RBTI meal schedule when I decided to switch things up a little. Before, I was eating on RBTI-like schedule – a modest breakfast, a pretty big lunch, then a very light, if any, dinner.
Then I switched to skipping breakfast, eating a huge feast at lunch, and skipping dinner. After my feast at lunch now I never think about or even want to look at food again – let alone get hungry again – the rest of the day.
I’m still feeling things out compared to when I used to fast all day and feast at dinner. But I am liking this schedule for now – feasting at lunch – especially since I do it mostly buffet-style. Going to buffets for lunch rather than for dinner works into my life (and social life) best, these days. Because I “do lunch” with friends more often than I “do dinner” with them or with family. And since I live alone, I can skip dinner without a problem. I don’t go to dinner at family or friends’ places very often anyway, because they usually have some kind of chicken (not a big fan) or pork of course (“the other white meat”). Haha
I did have some sleep issues after switching at first though. But I’m back to sleeping through the night and waking up automatically about 6am again. And I’m still leaning out.
” Food is no longer my master”
I think hands down this is one of the top reasons to fast
I do think the major factor is the large meal. before or after 2 accounts for maybe 25% of it and for certain people not at all. What I meant by the reams comment was that perhaps he was not as nutty as me and focused on the “numbers” and his own version of “crazy” prevented him from trying other things to explore any possible avenues to better refine his methods and certainly he would have not been overweight. I think maybe he saw that one can achieve the numbers but was puzzled why the weight persisted.
Contrary to what most people think I don’t think the body sees excess fat as a problem in a lot of cases it can be “healed” and work just fine carrying around some weight and is in it’s best interest to keep it. In a way I think reams figured out what was primarily wrong with the industrial age and the changes it has had on humans. In away a sort of virtual time machine that took him back to how people in the past, simply lived. This is a large part of the puzzle in obesity but obviously not all of it.
I do think like you said the eating light at night is just a way to “fast” while preserving cultural norms for typical americans so there is still 3 meals. Had he stepped outside of the box he may have suggested eating mostly at night and mostly one meal as I do. I find it much easier with my methods to not “be a weirdo” and is far less socially awkward. I get the odd request for a breakfast meeting and due to it being a porkebab smorgeshborg regardless of the time of day I usually say I have plans ( in my head plans to do absolutely nothing) and so these business meeting get moved to lunches instead. Most of my close friends know I don’t go near pork so breakfast is not a social issue for me. Now imagine me doing it reams style, A big guy like me takes a girl out for supper and eats only a salad….FAIL. It’s hard to do the big meal and relax with friends and family thing at lunch when everybody has stuff to do after in their day.
“What I meant by the reams comment was that perhaps he was not as nutty as me and focused on the ?numbers? and his own version of ?crazy? prevented him from trying other things to explore any possible avenues to better refine his methods and certainly he would have not been overweight. I think maybe he saw that one can achieve the numbers but was puzzled why the weight persisted.”
“I do think like you said the eating light at night is just a way to ?fast? while preserving cultural norms for typical americans so there is still 3 meals.”
Yes. That’s what I meant too when I said…
“I think it’s possible that the ?reasons? for the 2pm rules (or the reasons the numbers ‘seemed? to establish the 2pm rules) were perhaps caused by eating too often, in general ? the 3 (or more) meals a day thing that people just can’t seem to move away from. Not even the likes of Reams…”
Meaning, Reams probably never really went “out of the box” aka experimented with such things as meal frequency (or IF – gasp!!) because of the stronghold the ‘3 meals a day’ belief had on society – even back in his day.
I agree with this too…
“Contrary to what most people think I don’t think the body sees excess fat as a problem in a lot of cases it can be ?healed? and work just fine carrying around some weight and is in it’s best interest to keep it.”
And very valid points here about social awkwardness…
“I find it much easier with my methods to not ?be a weirdo? and is far less socially awkward.”
“Most of my close friends know I don’t go near pork so breakfast is not a social issue for me. Now imagine me doing it reams style, A big guy like me takes a girl out for supper and eats only a salad?.FAIL. It’s hard to do the big meal and relax with friends and family thing at lunch when everybody has stuff to do after in their day.”
I understand those are valid issues for many people. I don’t run into it as much as most but I just go with it when I do run into it. I try to remain flexible and open-minded… with the exception of one or two non-negotiables :)
Thanks again Chief. Really appreciate you sharing your insights with us.
about the statement on excess fat , this does not mean you are stuck with it or have to keep it it just means the body won’t drop it automatically in every case just by becoming healed but after becoming healed it can go away automatically when everything else is in order.
Totally understood that’s what you meant Chief. And my experience (personally and working with others) is in total agreement with that.
Do you work with others on health and weight loss? Is this one of the things you primarily do? I feel like it’s something I’d like to get into. If you catch this comment, shoot me an email at AFontaine79 (at) yahoo
BTW, when I wrote:
“I understand those are valid issues for many people. I don’t run into it as much as most but I just go with it when I do run into it. I try to remain flexible and open-minded? with the exception of one or two non-negotiables :)”
What I meant by that was that I totally get this…
“It’s hard to do the big meal and relax with friends and family thing at lunch when everybody has stuff to do after in their day.”
And I completely agree. This is when I just go with it and be flexible when I encounter that kind of situation or occasion where I’m dining in or out with peeps for a meal (be it breakfast, lunch, or dinner) which doesn’t really fit my way of eating at the moment (current experiment lol).
But it doesn’t happen so often that it really interferes with my experimenting anyway. And I’m the one who experiments a lot so I feel I should be flexible for my peeps. Plus, my peeps are flexible for me and don’t mind doing things my way sometimes too. Actually they usually think it’s fun! Going along with my crazy adventures with me. Haha. Like when we go “do” lunch these days… we go to a buffet for me. Since I’m still currently experimenting with my feast being at lunchtime. Then they watch in amazement as I eat plate after plate and listen to my crazy ideas. Haha. Good times! :)
Now in this type of scenario…
“Now imagine me doing it reams style, A big guy like me takes a girl out for supper and eats only a salad?.FAIL.”
For me personally, if I guy told me why he was eating the way he was eating (salad, feasting, whatever), I would be intrigued by his sense of adventure, exploration, and would want to hear all about it. And… I would be impressed by his being confident in (and totally okay with) being who he is.
Although, that’s me. That’s who I am. I realize not everyone is like that. And that’s okay. But I not only love for people to be who they are, I ‘enjoy’ being around people who just are who they are – quirks, flaws, and all. None of us are perfect. Whatever that is. And what we think are quirks or flaws in ourselves can be endearing to other people – even when they first meet us – in fact it can even be ‘why’ they like us when they first meet us :)
I want to know that a person is interested in the real me anyway. So I just be me :)
Okay, gonna go see what happens today… Haha :)
Or all of us ARE perfect except for one thing – what we think is perfect. We got that totally wrong!
I am confident Corena, it’s just a little orthorexic looking for a first date and speaks more of my client base’s needs than mine, I look weird for sure on a date with three plates and an extra side of mashed potatoes and I don’t care. Like aaron said people have a need to belong and I definitely factor that in in my advice if life taste crappy nobody wants to live it. Judging by the looks I get from wearing shorts in winter, I ain’t scurred to be me at all. lol
my view is even if (and thats a big if) RBTI was right and afternoon was better but you could get 80% of the results eating in the evening and not have your spouse think you went batshit crazy I would still go with the nights even if Stephen Hawkins told me not to in his robot voice.
Totally loved that last paragraph!! lol
Chief, I think it’s totally valid to have those concerns and considerations. And to also be considerate of the people who live in your home of course (spouse, bf/gf, kids, etc.). I ‘always’ consider how my actions affect other people in my life. Absolutely. My current fasting schedule works well for me at the moment. But I live by myself so I don’t have to worry about disrupting the social order of the household.
But anytime things change, I’m always happy to reconsider things. I don’t mind switching things up. Especially where the eating schedule is concerned. I’m good with the big feast being at lunch or dinner. Before I recently switched to feasting at lunch, I was used to naturally going most of the day without even thinking about food or getting hungry and then eating a big dinner. So either way is fine with me.
And I never doubted your confidence for a minute Chief! :) Nor anyone’s here. That was just further explanation of my earlier comment is all… and how I view/treat certain social situations. Especially for the guy’s to see from a woman’s perspective – in that particular type of scenario we were talking about.
I know sometimes (a lot of times lol) I say things that are pretty “outside the box” for most people. So I like to put things I say in REAL LIFE context so it makes more sense for them – letting peeps see things through my eyes. It helps explain what I mean – and show that I don’t just talk the talky, I walk the walky :) when I say things like…
“I don’t let society dictate my view of life. I don’t feel the need for social acceptance. I just be who I am and let others be who they are.”
That’s not to say that others here do or don’t. Only speaking for myself and just “sharing” from my own perspectives.
But gonna do less of that kind of “sharing” here and do it on my own blog. That way peeps can go there if they wanna read about my crazy ideas and wacky views on life. Haha. Peeps come here for health and nutrition – not you know, all my way “out of the box” commentary lol :)
I have been curious about what the numbers would be on a different eating schedule as well. I think you would have to test at a different time since your numbers fluctuate throughout the day. In RBTI you are supposed to test around 11AM so Im thinking if you were following the fast/feast late in the day, you would have to test a little later in the day to get an accurate reading…
Yes and no. When I was helping Matt and Pippa at the Wise Traditions conference, we were testing people at all times of the day. Salts and sugars will follow certain patterns depending on the time of day, but my understanding is that won’t change the underlying patterns.
Yes. I have to agree that it is much more socially acceptable to have the big meal at night, but what RBTI says about the liver needing to do housekeeping at night while we sleep, so we shouldn’t load it up with food to deal with then, kind of makes sense. What’s your take on that Chief??
I have read that the liver does most of its cleansing from 4am to noon
I think you have to take things into context, reams and his test subjects lived in between the 30s and 70’s a days work then is a far contrast to watching youtube an reading chain emails for a living in todays world. I think watching the “picture show” or listening to war of the worlds on the radio at night was a relaxing time for these people so either one can work in the right context. I don’t think he could have dreamed of a world where you can order a pizza online, while sexting and watch epic fail videos and somehow income came in without even breaking a sweat. I think letting the liver catch up, rest and do its “housekeeping” is more important of a factor than the time of day you let it catch up it’s just in reams’ days it was near impossible to fathom rest during the day.
That’s a good point Chief. I guess as long as the liver does get a chance to do “uninterrupted by food coming in housekeeping” at some time of the day, it doesn’t really matter at what time of the day that is.
On the subject of social acceptance. To elaborate on what I said about it in my comment above…
Again, I totally understand that social acceptance is a valid ‘need’ of modern humans – especially nowadays in this superficial age. But it’s never really been something that I feel I “need” personally. And I believe that plays a big role in why I don’t run into those socially awkward “issues” all that often.
Because… most people pretty early on when they meet me find me to be “different” anyway. Haha. Not that I’m anymore special than anyone else. I just am who I am from the moment I meet a person or a group of people. And yes I’m different. And I don’t try to be anyone else but me. I have no interest in being anyone but myself – least of all to impress or please anyone else but me.
My friends know that about me. They and most people who know me, in general, know that I’m different – so they all expect it of me. And that’s actually what they (say they) like most about me. Hence the most common thing I hear in both my personal life and in business, “I’ve never met anyone like you.” People say they like hearing things from my perspective. They like hearing about my crazy adventures. There’s lots of them. And there will be lots more of them! :)
And people tell me how much they appreciate my differentness (yes that’s a word – I just made it one!) and enjoy the “differentness” I bring. It tends to inspire people to take risks and “go for it” themselves. To go on their own crazy adventures. To follow their own crazy dreams. I love that! :)
People really like “different” because deep down they really want to be too. But they’re afraid of what people will think.
But it’s just too bad that more people don’t do that. Just be who they are. Be their own kind of different. Be younique. Be you. I believe that if more people did, and didn’t worry about being “normal” by society’s standards, it would become more the social norm. We could all take a lesson from Napoleon Dynamite :)
Here’s a favorite quote of mine that I refer to often in my work and life…
“Never doubt that a small group of caring people can change the world. Indeed, it’s the only thing that ever has.” -Margaret Mead
Sometimes being “different” is what it takes to get peoples’ attention. To get people to take notice. To get people to hear you. To get people to maybe open their minds a little more – even if just out of sheer curiosity because you’re so different lol – but just enough to hear what you have to say and your insights from your perspectives.
I personally love to hear the viewpoints and perspectives of others – especially when they don’t seem to agree with mine. Because in those cases, I want to know why they view or believe something so seemingly opposite of my views or beliefs. And I wonder what they know that I don’t know. I honestly want to know. And oftentimes I find that I learn something – whether it means I was right or I was wrong. Either way, I’ve learned more truth. Which is what I really want to know after all – the truth.
Not what our messed up society would have me believe.
And my truth is, I honestly don’t care if who I am, who I love, what I love, what I want, or what I do are socially acceptable by society’s totally effed up standards.
( I left off the 2 most important words :)
And that’s why I’m awake right now at 6am on a Sunday lol. I wake up early automatically (no alarm clock) every morning… excited to start each day. Can’t wait to see what’s gonna happen! :)
I love waking up early and being an early bird too, but I’m one of the people actually still going through some diet recovery. What I mean is my body is still physically recovering from the orthorexic, exercise-obsessed low-carb phase I thought was the holy grail of all things nutritional. I know that because I can still feel it.
I was doing the RBTI as strictly as I could follow it but the meals were too light in the evening. One of the things I’ve really wanted is just to sleep in more, or have more of that feeling of heaviness in the morning, like my body can take more rest if it needs it. I think I need that for a few weeks or months yet.
Switching the main meal more to the evening has somehow accomplished that. I’m drowsier in the morning and I can catch up on the much needed rest. But if I don’t eat enough in the evening, then I invariably wake up very early again, like yesterday when I was going “WTF? It’s Saturday, I’m awake, and the sun’s not even up yet.”
I think people need to feel part of a group they identify strongly with. I wonder if for you, if you think about it, you already have this in some way. I’ll grant that doing what you want in life and being yourself are huge factors, but for me at least the difference between is pretty big. Humans are social animals and are inherently designed to be social. My belief is we are supposed to be part of a group or a tribe. We’re also surprisingly adaptable and in modern times that sense of tribe seems to be being met more by the iPhone than the nuclear family. I should say I mean the iPhone is allowing more flexibility. It’s not a negative connotation. I would be surprised if you didn’t have any truly close friends.
With the foods, also quite a bit of stomach acid go in the digestive track and thus in the blood. That causes a wobble in the pH’s. That is why we test 2 hours after meals, not 30
Some are more acid in the morning than in the afternoon/evening and therefore could need other supplements in the morning than in the afternoon. Therefore it can be wise to test on different times
Do you work with others on health and weight loss? Is this one of the things you primarily do? I feel like it’s something I’d like to get into. If you catch this comment, shoot me an email at AFontaine79 (at) yahoo”
Over the years I worked with people in a few different areas – all of them pretty interrelated: restoring homeostasis within the body, healthy mind/body connection, and physical/mental (hormonal) balance. Also, natural/permanent fat loss, mindset/lifestyle transformation, stress management, discovering and following your passions, among other things like living life on your own terms – while allowing for growth, compromise, flexibility of course.
I’ve worked one-on-one with people as well as in groups (classes, seminars, guest-speaking invites). Also with alternative med/health practitioners who wanted to use my techniques in their practices. But it got to be very time consuming for me. And it became impossible to help everyone who came to me. So a couple of years ago I decided to put everything together in a book or rather a series of books. I felt that I could help a lot more people and be able to reach all those who sought my help that way. It just made more sense.
Well, the book project has gone through several changes and went in a few different directions – like doing video seminars (as well or instead maybe?), among other things lol. So it has been on hold. But – with the help of the “powers of persuasion” of one peep in particular haha – I’m refocusing on the book project this year. Things have really been coming together this past year and it’s time to “just do it!” :)
I’m currently restructuring the website that I took down a year or so ago, and plan to have it back up soon. While I’m working on the book project I will do blog posts discussing all of the different (interrelated) topics I listed above – and stop cluttering up the comments here on Matt’s blog with all my wacky and crazy OT commentaries. Haha :)
P.S. I think my first blog post will be one inspired by your reply to my “social acceptance” comment. Workin’ on it! :)
One thing I can say about diets is that I’ve never found a diet that couldn’t commit to me. Or Wanted to break up with me so it treated me like shit until I got the hint and did the work of the break-up. Traded me in for a new customer and then occasionally called me drunk asking if I didn’t think we were meant to be together after all. Spent all it’s time watching Star Trek and getting fat and then criticized me for not being fit like the women on Star Trek. Forgot to call me for a month and then suddenly turned up at my apartment in the middle of the night wanting sex. Lived in the shittiest neighborhood so that it could get away with only working about 10 hours a week and then expected me to visit. Needed me to drive it every where and do it’s laundry.
Conclusion: diets are better than the fixer upper boyfriends I had in my twenties.
I know its not exactly what you wanted, but I feel better for having got that off my chest.
I’m sure your fixer-upper boyfriends enjoyed getting things off your chest as well.
That’s amazing that you had an actual Trekkie boyfriend. I’ve read about them, but didn’t know any personally. Good to know they actually exist.
I believe that exercises would help you lose weight much more effectively than any diet. When I decided to get myself in shape, I’ve started visiting gym. I was also thinking about some diet pills, but eventually decided to go natural way. I’ve started taking nutritional supplement for enhancing my strength and endurance – Navy Seal Formula manufactured by MGNutritionals. Because of the natural compounds it is safe and provides pure energy, making my workouts much more effective.
I must say, in half a year I’ve reached great results. I’ve lost 40 pounds, my muscles became more tough and I felt toned like never before.