By Matt Stone
In October last year I wrote about a young Dutch kid (Coldmember I called him) who was in really bad shape. He contacted me through the 180D Get Help program and I told his story (although I botched a few details I guess) in Fat Loss Secret. Then I discussed the guidance I gave him in Eating Disorder Recovery. To make a long story short, he’s doing great now. Not only was he able to restore his hormone levels from the basement (his testosterone is up nearly 1,000%) over the last nine months, but he managed to pull it off looking extremely impressive. While the process may seem relatively simple and obvious, keep in mind that the?doctors he went to discouraged him from eating more food! I won’t give away too much’though. Below is his version in his words…
Story of a deluded, diluted monkey
Most of pre-recovery story has been covered in Matt’s article on me from last year. Therefore, I will keep this part short, and mostly fill in the missing bits. I will structure my article as follows:
-What got me in a suppressed metabolic state
-What I went through trying to get back to being healthy
-What eventually brought recovery
-What advice I would give others based on my own experience
Alright, let’s start off, how did I get here?
When I tell people my story, I usually put the beginning at Dec 2010. At the time, I was on antibiotics for acne, prescribed by a GP who claimed there was no link between nutrition and acne. I felt generally off, but my acne reduced. I was also eating very infrequently, which probably contributed to my decline in health as well. My body temperature was slightly reduced and sometimes I would get extremely cold suddenly. I also had panic attacks and a generally instable mood at the time. At this time, I had an odd idea. I got the impression that most animals in the wild eating their natural diet were in fairly good health. Without reading much about the subject, I decided that since our species originated in tropical Africa, I would try a fruit-based diet.
I’d eat around 3000 kcal of fruit, mostly quite watery fruit, like apples and oranges. I started this in Jan 2011 and kept it up until July of the same year. I ate one egg a week, apart from that, nothing but fruit and some raw vegetables. At first, I had some health improvements. My hair became very thick, my acne finally cleared up completely even though I had gotten off the antibiotics, my libido improved, and my sleep was better. My mood may not have been stable, but I was much happier at the time. I ascribe most of the benefits to finally getting a steady dose of sufficient carbohydrates. After a few months though, things declined, dramatically. My temperature had already been reducing, but now it was really clear I was freezing all the time. More than freezing, most muscle contractions hurt because I was so cold. I was in pain all day. My hair became thinner, and?my sex-drive dropped to the point of not functioning anymore. I also became very confused, psychotic almost, but according to those around me, it was hard to notice. Still, I felt very happy, ecstatic.
In July of 2011, I, for a reason I do not remember, quit the fruit diet. I’switched over to?an average western diet. This did not go so well. I had all kinds of allergic-like reactions to food. My joints hurt all the time, my acne came back and my temperature actually became worse. I started reading about diet. I ended up with a pretty sensible diet, but didn’t know it was too low in calories. After two months of misery, I switched to a fairly good diet. My reactions were gone, my acne was gone, and I was slightly warmer in the beginning. However, as time passed by, I kept getting colder again, probably from my caloric restriction and overhydration. My sex-drive became functional again, but was really low.
What I tried to get healthy again and how I got misdiagnosed
Eating like this for months, I kept getting weaker and weaker. Eventually my diastolic blood pressure reached 35 and I could hardly get up the stairs. I went to my GP, and she refused to do any blood tests, stating it was probably all just in my mind (even though I looked pretty terrible). I switched GP and the second one ran some tests.
Well, to summarize, things were not good, things were not good at all. One of the most dramatic things was my testosterone level, which was 1/5 of the lower reference value. He suspected panhypopituitarism, a condition where the pituitary gland produces inadequately low levels of various hormones. He referred me to an endocrinologist. To summarize a longer story: the endocrinologist gave the same diagnosis and I was put on hormone replacement therapy for thyroid hormone (requested a T3/T4 mix), cortisol, growth hormone, and testosterone. I improved somewhat, especially when raising the thyroid hormone, but I was nowhere near fine. At the time, I was maintaining on 1800 kcal/day, which must have been a huge factor in why I was still very cold despite taking large doses of thyroid hormone. I was also still overhydrating. I kept insisting to the hospital that the treatment was probably not correct, and my previous diets must have been the cause of my condition. They never listened. The pic shown is how I looked at the time.?
So, what did bring me recovery?
In October of 2012, I and my mother had a consultation with Matt. He recommended some of his basic things. Pee yellow, eat enough carbs, and since I was, and still am, a strict macro tracker, he gave some macronutrient guidelines and recommended 3000 kcal. At the time, I thought this kind of calorie intake would make me gain tons of bodyfat (which was not even a bad idea). From my fear of this, I started eating 5,000-10,000 kcal (yes?paradoxical), including lots of alcohol. Despite my heavy drinking, I started improving. The next hospital visit, we managed, with some of the things Matt told us, to convince the endocrinologist they had misdiagnosed me. They told me I could wean off the HRT, but could eat no more than 2100 kcal unless I did a ton of cardio.
I started eating 2100 and crashed badly. I was as cold as ever. So I decided to go with the cardio. I did strength-training 3 times a week and 2+ hours of cardio a day and ate 3000-3500 kcal a day. At first, things improved a bit, then, I got colder and colder again. This was all while reducing HRT doses, which made things harder. Long story short again, I decided to stop caring about gaining some bodyfat, and went for 3500 kcal without any cardio. I gained fat rapidly, 1-2 kg of total weight gain/week, but felt much better. After a couple of weeks, I got too stressed out about my weight gain.
I decided to consult with Eric Helms. He gave me a very neat program that slowly increases calorie intake based on rate of weight gain. I started around 3200 kcal, and am now around 3300 kcal, hoping to increase my maintenance to around 3600. In the end, I think increasing my calorie intake and watching my fluid/salt/carb ratio were probably the biggest factors in recovering. I am eternally grateful to Matt for giving me that advice. And recover I did! My latest bloodtest, almost half a year completely off HRT, was very good. My testosterone level rose from 3.4 nnmol/l(before HRT) to 27.9 nmol/l (recently), and I think it had been even lower.
How do I feel? When I eat regular salty meals and eat strictly the way I think is best, probably better than most people. If I don’t, I still get cold and fatigued.
What advice would I give others based on my own experience?
First off, increase calorie intake SLOWLY, very slowly. I am currently increasing with 20-40 kcal/week. Unless you are in a really poor state, I think this is also the healthier way to do it. Yes, it requires some tracking, but I am?a big proponent of tracking (total calories or even macros), if it doesn’t get obsessive and allows for some exceptions. It makes a lot of sense to me to have a fairly consistent fuel supply.
Regarding the diet itself, I will give a list of priorities in my experience, from important to less important:
1. Eat enough total calories
2. Eat enough carbs
3. Have a good fluid/salt/carb ratio
4. Eat high quality food
5. Restrict PUFA
6. Have a good methionine/glycine ratio (gelatin, in high doses, 100-150 grams a day, has had a huge positive effect)
So, that’s it basically. And?how do I look now? Well, I gained a little bit of bodyfat, but I am still fairly lean, so I’d say the 15 kg I gained have landed in good places. Here are some pictures from a few days ago:
Glad to hear read that you’re feeling better.
“Eating like this for months, I kept getting weaker and weaker”. Eating like what for months? Shortly before you mention a “fairly good diet”. Were you restricting during this time?
How much alcohol were you drinking, and what types? Was that daily?
Do you have any other lab markers. What was your GH level then, and where is it now?
Are you more or less focused on body image after being at the extremes of poor health?
Yes, I was restricting calorie intake, but I still am now, I have for the past 6 years. However, stuffing myself until I don’t even want to think of food anymore on 3600 kcal can be restriction too, because I limit myself to that amount. There is a big difference between intelligently done macro tracking and badly done macro tracking. I was the kind of person who was able to completely ignore all the bodily signals and go with some numbers I thought were alright. The biggest thing was that I did not know the metabolic rate was flexible outside of body composition and activity level.
How much alcohol? 500 ml of vodka every day, something like that, or 1.5 liters of wine, if I ate enough that day to handle the fluids. A lot. :)
Yes, I have more lab markers, but not here. I am on holiday. Therefore, for anyone else, sorry if I reply slowly.
I am far less focused on body image and far less concerned with having the ‘perfect’ diet. However, to the degree that things don’t get obsessive, I still love tinkering with my diet and exercise, but now with a bit more respect for my bodies signals.
By most definitions of restricting “stuffing yourself until you don’t want to think about food” would not be considered restriction by most. It may be regimented if you’re counting, but it’s certainly not restriction or deprivation.
so how long was this period of heavy drinking? I believe 500mL of vodka works out to ~ 1100 kcal was that factored into the 5k? Did anyone know and/or warn you about such a habit?
I’m hoping you can post more lab results when you return from holiday.
Again, glad to hear you’re finding a healthier place with your body, I hope it continues to develop to all aspects of your health.
The heavy drinking, hm, two months heavy perhaps. After that 4 months with 150 g vodka/day. Regarding being warned about it, yeah, but I was suicidally depressed at the time, I was in a really bad state. At some point I had recovered enough to get through my days without the alcohol.
And the 5k was not strict, some days it was double that.
so how about those lab numbers?
What does he mean exactly by, “3. Have a good fluid/salt/carb ratio”?
Also, the difference is amazing and so quickly! Congratulations!
He means having a large enough proportion of carbohydrates and salt to fluids. The higher that ratio, generally the more metabolically-stimulating it is.
Glad it’s working for him. But eating the food is causing me to gain fat rapidly, in all the wrong places :/
He’s also 21, doing some hard weight training, and monitoring his food intake with great precision. Nor does he or his family seem to be particularly prone to easy fat gain in the first place.
“monitoring his food intake with great precision”
I think that is the main thing.
I might add, my family does seem somewhat prone to weight gain.
Well done, you! :) Can you tell me if you limit any type of carbs? Do you feel ok to exercise a lot since increasing calories? Thanks!
I get hypoglycemic during exercise far less quickly since increasing carbs. Hopefully it will disappear all together.
Could you provide a typical days food? I’m eating mostly fruit with little dairy after gaining over 10lbs in 2 weeks with eating junk food to raise my metabolism.(all fat around my stomach, my whole family are overweight or obese) I’m still obviously in a poor state since it’s only being a short period of time and I’m looking to have thyroid and tersosterone tests in a few weeks – just to see what’s going on. (no meds)
Yeah, shall I take a look at my day on myfitnesspal?
425 ml orange juice
1.1 egg
3.6 rice cake
200 ml semi skimmed milk
838 grams of sweet potato
75 grams of ground beef
130 grams of gelatin
200 ml semi skimmed milk
40 grams of gouda cheese
400 ml of orange juice
500 ml of semi skimmed milk
1.2 rice cake
1200 ml of orange juice
1.1 egg
200 ml of semi skimmed milk
That was a hot day, so lots of fluids. 1.1 egg simply means the egg was heavier than the one myfitnesspal used. Shows how accurate I am with tracking this stuff, that’s probably not for everyone, but I love to do it.
I seem to tolerate wheat again, so may be including some of that on occasion. I do however eat very “clean”. I eat lots of gelatin, potatoes or sweet potatoes for carbs mainly, maybe 1/3 of carbs fruit or juice, liver once a week. Ground beef with most meals. Lots of salt(ridiculous amounts). About 6 eggs most days. More dairy than meat. Wild meats, preferably. High quality animal food, lower quality, cheaper plant food.
I think that describes things quite well.
Curious, is that a list of smaller meals (Oj with egg, rice with milk) or is that a list of 3 or 4 large meals?
I am trying to include some of your ideas into my recovery as well but every time I sit down to a huge meal with potato, egg, oj, milk, gelatin I crash afterwards. Bad kind of crash, not the restorative kind. (hypoglycemia i think).
But if I eat the same cals from a more limited meal (cheese w/ OJ, etc) I feel fine. It makes me think some foods don’t mix well. Some people say that starch doesnt mix with sour things, and some say that it doesn’t mix with meat, but I have no idea.
Do you have any experience with this, or rather; what works for you now?
I have also found the gelatin and salt to be a huge factor. Sometimes i’ll eat salt pure, but only if I make sure to sprinkle some salt on it first.
Wow, very interesting story. Glad to hear you’re feeling better!! The additional weight looks excellent on you (all the right places indeed ;P).
What Ana said! Coldmember… shouldn’t that be Hot… *I am shameless* :-D
1000 fold increase in Testosterone! Don’t let this guy near any of my womanz.
Well, not a 1000 fold, lol. But 10 fold is still a lot, yeah. I actually put a post on facebook warning the girls when I got my blood test back. I think the fact that I have a girlfriend now makes the world a safer place.
Give us some details about how you eat your sweet taters and gelatin please =) I need to do that shieeet! Congrats Mr. Macromaster Flex lol
What foods do you eat?
See above.
I am very happy for him and very jealous as well. I would venture to say that this wouldn’t be the case for most of us. For me, very little repair was made until I just ate and ate; I tried gradually increasing calories for 6 months (to about 2800 a day), and I was exhausted and sick as ever. Once I gave in (4-5000 cals a day) I saw marked hormonal improvements in just a couple of weeks and started sleeping again. I think this case is extremely different from a young man who grappled with restrictive eating for 2 years or so, than a young-ish woman (28) who battled this for 13 years. I just don’t want the ladies (or even men) out there to feel badly that this recovery seemed to go so well and that they’re ‘doing it wrong’. I kind of wish there was a realistic female expose (I’ll submit one!) that told that it sure as hell isn’t rainbows and glittery-pony-unicorns physically. That’s been my experience. This blows, physically, but mentally, I’ve recovered completely, and that’s been worth it, at least.
I think if you slowly build up your calorie intake, you may not need to get as high as 5000 kcal to recover, if you give it some time. But then again, I also had a period like that, and it did bring some improvement. What kind of foods do you eat? I would personally put a little more emphasis on a high quality diet than matt does.
I agree Mila. I have been recovering for 16 months and it has been absolute hell. I actually had extreme hunger in the beginning. I couldn’t limit my calories if I wanted. Some days I was upwards of 10,000 calories and was still hungry, but just couldn’t bring myself to eat more. And there was no way I could have made myself eat less. I also could not have continued with physical activity. I was so exhausted it was difficult to even get out of bed. I am much better then I was when I was sick, but I had a tremendous amount of weight gain (there was no stopping it), and am still dealing with that, exhaustion and hormonal issues. I cannot wait to get my life back and for my recovery to be over. It has sucked (as much as it has also been worth it).
As a 31 year old female, who is pretty much sedentary, I have to eat about 3000 calories a day still. I was actually surprised he was eating so little (in my opinion). But, good for you, coldmember for getting your weight back up and looking and feeling much better. I know how hard it is!
I’m curious – what does a days food look like?
What do you eat and how much to get 10,000 calories?
Milamonster- agreed. Recovery so blows, but is so worth it:)
Sorry if this is inappropriate, but you look hot! I would say it’s all landed in good places!
Glad you are feeling so much better, too. Good for you for listening to your body and finding what works for you.
Not inappropriate at all, thank you! :)
I agree, you look much better now :) Very healthy and strong.
My life sucks! :)
its a shame when a man puts on weight it cant all go to his cock.
Also, why do you say gelatin has had a good effect?
I honestly have no clue what the mechanism might be, but it makes me feel so much more awake. It seems to have nearly wiped away my hypoglycemia and my digestive problems and it quite dramatically improved my mood. I also apply it topically on my face as a mask. At the risk of sounding a bit gay here, I think it is the most effective food for beauty.
Btw, that is only since I started taking huge amounts. 100-150 grams a day. It gives me a similar clear feeling as protein restriction does, without the problems that gives.
How do you incorporate the gelatin in your food? What kind or brand of gelatin do you consume?
Also curious how you get more salt in? I’ve never shied away from salt so I had already put enough on things to make them taste optimal – if I add more, they don’t taste so good. Thinking about just eating it plain. Since decreasing my water intake, I think I have improved my temperatures but still not that high. I have also increased my calories a bit by increasing carbs and decreased PUFAs.
I eat pure salt at times, it helps. I consume cheap gelatin from a local store. 16.99 euros for a kg. I also never drink pure water, that might help.
Can you tell me at which store you buy the gelatin? I am Dutch too ;)
It is a local store.
Ik zou naar ouderwetse drogisterijen zoeken, dus geen kruitvat ofzo. :) Die hebben het vaak in potten staan.
Thanks
If more salt tastes bad, you very likely don’t need it. It’s about balance.
I use it as a back up when I drank too much by accident. I just quickly eat some pure salt, and usually my temperature is fine again.
Yeah, I would also like to know what gelatin you’re using, and how you afford to eat 100 grams of it a day.
I use Great Lakes beef gelatin. One 16-ounce can of that costs a dollar per ounce and would barely last you four days! Do you really go it through it that quickly?
Don’t worry. All you Europeans sound gay :) With or without the gelatin mask.
Nothin’ wrong with being gay ;-)
Gelatin aids digestion and keeps bloodsugar stable.
Seeing your diet now,it looks like you’ve gone the Ray Peat road….
What are good sources of gelatin? Do you just add it to foods you are already eating?
I make huge winegums.
Do you happen to have a recipe? I’ve made orange juice gelatin and sugar gums but they don’t taste that good. I’m assuming I need a more concentrated flavor or something.
I use diet soda with a bit of salt and lots of extra artificial sweetener. Not sure of it is optimal to consume every day, but I get no instant side effects.I boil a lot of water out of the soda first to make it stronger.
Oh, and sometimes lemon juice.
My oh my, that sounds unimaginably terrible. All those chemicals plus heat can’t be good
I don’t eat anywhere near as much gelatin as Coldmember does, but I do make something I like with it. I make a coffee drink with a tbls or 2 of gelatin in it almost every day. I make the coffee in a chemex pot. Then in my blender I put about 4-5 tbls of sugar, 4-6 oz of milk/heavy crm, 1-2 tbls of gelatin, 1 tbls of MCT oil, spice if I want.. usually cinnamon/cardamom, and then blend it for a minute. Then I add the coffee and blend it to make a nice frothy drink. It’s usually like 5-6 cups worth (actual cup measurement) altogether. It’s quite good.
I take a half a teaspoon of pure glycine a day. I just pop it on the tongue and wash it down with a bit of water. I did the gelatin thing for a while but it’s just too much damn work.
Isn’t cheese a good source of protein ?
Omg you sound like me! I’m a girl, but was diaganosed with Panhypopituitarism, went on all replacement meds, am currently still weening off my hydrocortisone. (my story is in the metabolism forum).
But I’m trying to start recovery.. Just not totally sure about all the details. But yesterday I ate 2100 calories, and that was from 1200-1500ish before.
When did you start doing weight training in recovery? Did you do it from the beginning?
Yes, and before getting sick. But when I was at my weakest, I was not able to. I did strength training on and off for the past 6 years. Longest I have done it consistently is 2 years.
I may as well give u an email address: dreamsbig@outlook.com
hope to hear from ya…
Coldmember,
do you have an email I could contact you at and get some advice. Or yu could shoot me an email and I can reply.
boatnerj@vt.edu
Hey Coldmember, did you happen to posted on 30bananassucks about your re-feeding experiment? I remember talking with a Dutch guy a while back who is the same age as you and had the same back story as you. I think we discussed the Minnesota Starvation Experiment. I’ve often wondered how the re-feeding went for him. Anyhow, I’m glad your doing well. It’s always nice to hear when one of us has gained our health and life back. Victory! :)
Love and Blessings!
Anthony Colpo also wrote about Coldmember… http://anthonycolpo.com/get-to-know-your-local-hospital-become-a-fruitarian/
Yeah, that was me. Not sure again what part of my story I put there. I left bits out of the article and perhaps different bits there, the full story is a bit longer.
Great improvements you have made! I also had a lower testosterone level. The weird thing is that it did not seem to hamper my strength but did lower libido. I am curious about why the doctors asked you to eat 2100 calories of food? Seems low for someone with your activity level. I hope that your mental and physical symptoms are close to fully recovered. You probably get pumps again in the gym and a better sense of well being working out! Also do you use the same username on fitnespal? Wouldn’t mind to add you sine I use it semi daily as well. Thanks for your story.
Jacknl is my name on myfitnesspal.
As to why 2100, I weighed less at the time and apart from my strength training I am sedentary, I think they just used some calculation.
coldmember: whats your macro breakdown % and how much fat gram, protein grams, and carb grams are you getting a day?
No strict macro breakdown, I keep fat pretty constant but swap carbs and protein.
Something like 70 g fat 200 g protein and 450 g carbs is typical. More protein than I need probably, but a lot is gelatin.
Is your diet so heavily liquid based if its colder? What does a more colder day look like? and how much salt is a “ridiculous amount”?
Appreciate you sharing all of this with us.
Also, does anyone have any info on gelatin? which is more preferable, beef or pork? or does it even matter that much?
I do not measure my salt intake, it is just a lot. Colder days are more starch and fatty meat typically.
And for gelatin, no clue, I just buy the cheapest, and it helps.
did eric helms give you similar advice as matt?
Regarding fluids, salt and carbs? No
He gave me a program that slowly increases carbs and fat based on my weight. I thought it was de stressing because it took my responsibility away and prevents more than 150 g weekly weight gain. I have been getting slightly leaner since going from 3500 to 3200 and building to 3300. My old maintanance, years ago, was 3600, I want to get back there.
wow, yeah, if you can email me, please please do coldmember …I just like the way u reason this stuff out!
whats your myfitnesspal account name?
Jacknl
Do you have a facebook or an email, or any other way to contact you?
Coldmember,
The thing I find interesting about your food regimen listed in above comments is that it highly resembles a Ray Peat type of diet. Were you familair with Ray Peat prior to doing this? Even though you needed to bulk up, do you think eating gelatin, ground beef, potatoes and fruit/fruit juices can help a person lose weight?
I have read his articles, yes. My main guideline for choosing what to eat is how I feel and what my body composition does, though.
Losing weight will require a calorie deficit, it is best to start from a high place. If you maintain on 3600, it will be much less dangerous to lose weight than if you maintain on 2000 kcal. You will probably have to reduce calorie intake multiple times along the way. After losing the fat, slowly rebuild maintainance as high as you can. The type of food will not have much impact on body composition, but in my opinion it does influence health.
Thank you Coldmember :)
I have long long thrown away the scales, have no banned foods, don’t measure or record anything I consume and eat out often, but still have big problems with restriction; it’s like it’s an automatic feature of my psychology that I don’t even need to think about. I thought in removing the OCD tendencies, everything would just “click” and life would revert to normal, but no… Worst thing is I now have a slow digestive system that turns me off food very easily. I get the feeling therefore that actually recording everything I eat to make sure I eat xxxx amount of calories, or keep modestly increasing, would be extremely beneficial. Like embracing the OCD and using that power for good :)
You might develop new OCDs and social exclusions from this. You can’t bring your scale to a resteraunt.
Or you can just take it easy and be as accurate as you can without giving up anything or avoiding anything. I honestly think this is a relaxing way to eat,. I would not recommend an average person to do it for the rest of their lives, but being a bit more accurate during recovery can not hurt in my opinion. If you listen to that messed up satiety signal, you will probably gain a lot of fat, which can also pose risks.
Having starved 188lbs off of me a few years ago I will never ever go back to weighing food and counting calories again. Ever. That was the worst part of my “diet life.” I’ve put back on around 60lbs, and sure fat, but I feel 100% better. Calories only exsit because WE feel the need to measure everything…we created the whole concept and it’s a way to keep people trapped. Once you fail to see the cage, you are free.
Really not adding much to the nutritional discussion here at all, but may I just say, well…….YUM! (and I don’t mean the giant gelatine wine gums ).
you dont need to count calories/macros, but i’m trying to get very lean while keeping my metabolism humming…. In fact counting calories and macros is the easiest thing ever and i dont even think about it
100-150 grams of gelatin a day! That is faily impressive, any suggestions for someone looking to up their gelatin consumption?
How did you feel drinking alcohol in such a compromised metabolic state? Good to see you are on the mend :)
Umm, well, good, and drunk. :) But depressed when I was not drunk. I felt much better than on 1800 kcal without alcohol.
Cold member- when you said, “If you listen to that messed up satiety signal, you will probably gain a lot of fat, which can also pose risks.”
Are you saying that if you only eat 2100 vs 3000+ in recovery, that your going to gain more fat? Would that mean more weight too? Or does eating 3000+ allow more muscle growth in recovery? Hopefully this makes since, it’s not worded very good.
I think he’s saying the opposite, that eating 3000+ during recovery because of a broken satiety signal, when you really only require 2100, will lead to fat gain.
That is right. And I think it is a good idea to slowly raise calorie intake, as high as one can, with minimal fat gain. I think listening to this “extreme hunger” signal might be problematic in many cases.
I agree…and THIS is what stunts me and prevents me from knowing what to do and making things worse for myself…really need some insight on this…
Cold member would you be willing to shoot some emails back and forth and help me formulate a simple plan for recovery based on what you have learned. I also have a few questions regarding digestion and intolerances and such……
Don’t think I could really afford Eric helms or any 3dmj guy, or really anyone at the moment lol :(
As long as I bear no responsibility, sure. What is your email address? Maybe a mod should email it to me. But please understand that a lot of it is experimenting and finding what works for you personally.
boatnerj@vt.edu
I completely understand. Not looking for concrete “do exsctly this”. JUst trying to see what you found worked and apply it to myself and see if it helps, take what does, and drop what doesnt.
Hey, coldmember, I’m female…maybe matt can pass u my email addresss also? I don’t want to put on internet …just looking for SOMETHING …no liability involved, ha :)
As a female, I eat 2800 a day and am trying to let go of the rigidity of the counting, but can’t seem to shake it, as I got too attached to it and count without even wanting to, bad nasty habit that came out of a developed Ed when i restricted fat to around 20 grams a day, now I average around 50 most days, and ovcasionally much much more. I never restricted carbs, and as a female who exercises at least 4 times a week, would you say 450 grams of carbs is good? I have eaten this way for almost seat, and many of those carbs come from oatmeal, fiber,mTONS of bread and veggies and granola bars.(I am 118 pounds give or take a few here and there)& 5’6 and in my twenties. I do have a history of limiting fat intake, but never got below 1500 calories, and usually ate around 2000 on any given day (more on weekends) and maintained with exercise. I now eat 2800 give or take with exercise to maintain. Thanks :)
Congrats in your progress!
Whatever works for you is good. For most people, I think, eating as many carbs as they can without gaining fat, is probably a good idea.
In your experience, what has been that level for you? It probably wouldn’t hurt me to gain some fat anyways. But, I am curious as to how much you we eating and what you think a normal amount would be to eat consistently might be for someone like me if I’ve been eating this way for a year already, thanks
I do not think there is such a thing as a normal amount. I would just max it out slowly and see how high you can get without fat gain. If it is too much food, maybe use more liquids for carbs.
As for fat, I would shoot for around 1 g/kg bodyweight, protein 2g/kg BW if you do strength training.
Great post – long time lurker here who rarely posts, but I had a question I was hoping you could address, Matt. In your Eat for Heat book, you advocate the use of salt for metobolically compromised people as part of a regimen to get that temp a-ragin’. The more I thought about it, the more this seemed plausibly important when considering some anecdotal observations (i.e.how salty all our bodily fluids are, the fact that it hurts when you use a neti pot and don’t use saltwater, how therapeutic salty oceanwater seems to be for people, and the fact that saline is what hospitals administer to patients suffering from dehydration to name a few). I was recently introduced to a product called ASEA that is basically salt water, and although it is sold through MLM channels (which makes me skiddish), the gentleman that introduced me to it is one of the more brilliant men I know. He has reported many of the same health improvements that your Eat for Heat program has provided others since starting to take this product. The clinical story told by the company centers on improving health at the cellular level through the employment of “redox signaling molecules.” In light of your perspective on salt, the fact that the ingredients of this product are literally distilled water and sodium chloride makes me both intrigued and skeptical. I don’t want my bias against MLM to keep me from something that seems to promote a similar message as some of what you have taught me, but I also don’t want to shell out big bucks for plain old salt water either. Do you know anything about this product and whether it might be a beneficial thing to use as a compliment to the Eat for Heat/RRARF diet?
I don’t, but it sounds like a basic hypertonic solution, which can be beneficial. I don’t think those ingredients will do anything magical that you can’t achieve with your own sense though.
Great you’re feeling better now!
Although my health has improved already, I still struggle a bit with carbohydrate intolerance/sibo along with intolerance issues. Have you ever had experiences likes this? And do you or Matt have or any ideas on how to get over these troubles?
Groet,
What problems do you get from what foods?
Mainly those hard to digest foods like milk, grains, nuts. Casein and gluten causs much joint pain.
Sadly fiber is a troublesome foodcomponent too, I really guess gut dysbiosis but easier said than fixed :) Maybe in this case tracking and gradually increasing things over time seems to be the best strategy.
It does not sound like you have recovered. You have switched the facet of your eating disorder to anorexia athletica and orthorexia. ‘Normal eating’ does not include meticulously monitoring your calories (no matter how much you eat), or restricting ‘unclean’ foods. I encourage you to explore your life beyond shape and exercise.
I wrote a response to this on my phone and then my browser crashed. I will just summarize by saying it does not feel like that at all for me and that I enjoy what I am doing. I will add to that, that since I am healthier, I tolerate certain foods a lot better and am experimenting with adding them in for flexibility, no harm in eating some lower quality food once in a while, unless one gets instant problems from them. Regarding the tracking of macros, I think it is a good idea until ones satiety signal is in a good place, and it take little time and effort.
Takes*
And
” Anorexia athletica, (sports anorexia) also referred to as hypergymnasia?is an?eating disorder characterized by excessive and compulsive exercise.”
Would not say doing no exercise apart from 2-3 hours of strength training sounds like that. I have done strength training on and off for 6 years, and could not imagine a type of exercise I like more.
2-3 hours weekly that is, obviously. I also think eating an average diet is probably not optimal. But if you want to look at it as you described, that is fine, I guess we have different definitions of those terms.
Your macro tracking approach is pretty interesting, though I think I would be too lazy for it myself. Did you achieve your result purely with diet related changes?
Yes, my workouts went from 15 min to an hour though, since I can tolerate that now. Before HRT, I was too weak to work out. But most of the change in body composition is diet, yeah.
Wasn’t just referring to the changes in body composition but also metabolic/stress/hormonal changes. It’s remarkable you made such a change with diet only (regarding conscious changes at least) even if you were coming from extreme diets.
PS. Can I add you on facebook? I’m also a dutch guy of about your age, might be nice to share some insights now and then ;)
Sure, maybe a mod can give you my email address so you can email your facebook name. I would rather not have my name be on here.
You can also add me if you want: Franz Wojciechowski
So you think HRT is TRULY beneficial? Jeesh…I should’ve seen an ENDocringolist long long ago…I’ve went from bad to worse to negative worse
Nah, it was not what I needed in the long run, but I was in such bad shape that it may have saved me at the time.
That’s the thing. I can’t do a pushup. I can’t sleep (though admittedly I eat A LOT right before bed…I’m a very flawed eater and do not have self control and am not eating the way you have or way matt says or anything…i’m just flailing)…I wake up as though hit by train, aches, pains, exhausted just taking my daily walks to get things (no car)…so sick of it!
Great results mate. I am also a bodybuilding/fitness enthusist. Where did you get the idea of eating gelatin from? What are the benefits?
Main benefit for me seems reduced fatigue. Where I got the idea, I do not remember, maybe peats idea of taking 30-50 grams, I noticed the benifits kept increasing on higher amounts, perhaps because I eat plenty of other protein too.
Coldmember, have you noticed any difference depending on fructose/sugar intake? I’ve noticed if i cut all sugar out of diet, i can eat as much as i want and lose weight, but i think that might be a palatability issue as much as anything. I see you drink a lot of orange juice.
I think he experienced the opposite – the more sugar the leaner and the more he could eat without gaining.
Yes, but the difference is minimal, and starch fills you up more. Nevertheless, after swapping some starch for fruit on an equal calorie intake, I lost a little bit of bodyfat. If you do not count calories, I think starch will make you eat less
will eating late late at night, no exercise…be detrimental? as someone who mentioned my history in comment below…I eat a LOT of sugary fruits late at night (among other things)…a compulsion….I worry about this impact on my gut health, hormones, and mainly fear of developing insulin resistance, diabetes, blood sugar issues, etc..
As someone who had anorexia athletica I was literally addicted to working out, I felt like I HAD to in order to maintain. I felt extreme guilt if anything got in the way of my plans to work out. I would constantly cancel plans and aching and everything social in order to work out, I had to. Even though I ate 2000 constantly, I was not healthy, I was at an extremely low body fat, and didn’t function. I was always cold, tired, sick, had digestion issues, no interest in anything besides food and working out, I was a disaster. But everyone thought I was healthy, I was not, not in the slightest. I now only work out 3-4 times a week, so the tendency ray has gotten better, but its still hard to shake at times.
I feel like I am able to do this amount of activity now again because I constantly eat 3000 most days, I eat well above 400 grams of carbs every single day, exercise or not, every day. I have seen minimal fat gain, and my weight has stayed the same roughly. Would you say it’s okay to eat the same day in and day out regardless of if you work out that day or not? Does the Body need that many carbs; for example on days you are way more sedentary if you are active the other days? I eat extremely high carb, low fat.
I eat the same amount on workout and non workout days. Seems easier to me, no need to make estimates of how much you burned from activity then.
Girlstanding, it sounds like you have made great progress. It also sounds like what you’re doing is working for you, therefore unless you’re having issues (continued poor digestion, sleep, etc), I wouldn’t question your methods and simply continue plugging on.
Out of curiosity..-
What happened during the period of time when you made your switch.. Did you gain weight when you reduced your exercise and increased your intake to 2800-3000?
What do you do as far as exercise goes as of today?
I did gain **maybe 5-10 pounds upon stopping exercise and adding more calories at first. But it was nothing major, and nothing that made any big difference. And then I kind of just stayed there, I just go by how I look, and to me, I basically feel like I look the same! Haha
Now, I do cardio 3-5 days a week *depending* of course on circumstance, and that can change. It can be zumba, pilates, riding a stationary bike or the elliptical.
Considering the fact that your exercise is cardio-based, your carbs seem spot on. On days when you rest, you’re refueling.. So I would venture to guess that is equally important on rest and activity days. Are you a long duration steady state cardio? Short and intense?
Hi Coldmember,
I’m interested in your fitness and nutrition aproach too. It would be great open a topic in exercise forum to exchange opinions, tips, workout and ideas about healthy bodybuilding
Hi Coldmember,
Wondering what your exercise plan looked like in relation to your overall nutritional approach>?
Also, like Acaru, would also like to see more from you on fitness and nutrition as well.
Matt, I’m 32 year old female…..feeling lost myself and gut health + metabolism + hormones a mess…”binging” late at night (dark chocolate, ENORMOUs amounts of sugary fruit, yogurt, nut butter, popchips, etc)…also now can barely barely make it up stairs…walk casually a couple times a day (no car), other than that brain fogged…wake up in morning and feel like a magnet is attaching me to the bed and I can’t get out of the bed….feel like I have fibromyalgia….SHOULD see an endocrinologist and Gastro …but (long story) fear doctors…
could this guy in this story email me? I know we are different and he’s ..well young + a male…but jeesh, I need to talk to someone …find out some way….give him my email address if u can…thanks!
Speaking from the viewpoint of a Chinese Medicine Practitioner (in training), the symptoms and diagnosis you describe -coldness, fatigue, depression, low metabolism, hypothyroidism, low production of sex hormones, ect. fit describes a pattern that we call Yang Deficiency, particularly Kidney Yang Def. In Chinese Medicine, Kidney Yang Deficiency can roughly be equated to a low metabolic “fire”, and the Kidneys are responsible for the production of hormones. Mental/Emotionally, people with Kidney Yang Deficiency tend towards an intractable feeling of depression, usually starting pretty early in life as Kidney Yang Deficiency is most often an inherited constitution. This can manifest as a fear of failure to succeed in life, due to a deep sense of the person’s lack of energy and sometimes result in behaviors that compensate for that fear -i.e. needing to control strictly aspects of one’s life.
You will want to supplement your diet with warming foods & spices, and avoid ALL cold foods & beverages. Your digestive system is most likely not strong enough to tolerate raw foods (do you see undigested food in your stools?) and cold drinks, ice, ice cream, etc. all lower the temperature of your gastrointestinal system, preventing your enzymes from functioning and thus greatly inhibiting your digestion.
Instead, try cooking all of your veggies (steaming is great) and eat lots of grass-fed liver, seafood, meat in general, thick green leafy veggies (chard, kale, collards, etc.) and root vegetables (onions, sweet potatoes, carrots, ect). Make rice congees. Eat butter/ghee, and fruit oils (coconut, olive, palm).
Adding fresh ginger root to your diet is super important. Boil a few slices for 15-20 mins, and drink before, with, or right after meals (with a little bit of lemon & honey is nice). Add cinnamon, cardamom, fennel, cayenne, and garlic (warming spices).
In short, think warm. Warm food, warm beverages, warm spices, heating pad to your lower back, jacket in air conditioning, ect. I have personally seen a major difference in my own quality of life (digestion, energy, skin, menstrual cycles, mood, etc) adopting this lifestyle, since I also have to deal with some Yang deficiency.
Hope this helps!
Yeah, some Chinese medicine practitioner recommended the same to me. That did not help at all. What did help is dramatically upping my carbs and total calories. He said to drink warm water right after waking up, that made me pee clear and get very cold, just as Matt describes.
Thanks Coldmember. I didn’t want to be the one to tell Rainey how retarded her comment was.
THIS is why all the conflicting info. gets me confused. I see both the “eat for heat” approach being of value (i.e..i do crave fatty salmons, potatoes, oils, avocados…etc)…BUT I also crave ice cream, yogurt (just crap grocery store stuff) and junk, chocolate, etc…i’m tired of the whirls of not knowing what to eat when so exhausted, not exercising at all, constipated and no appetite. In short, it all sucks. Bigtime. I still don’t know. Anyway
Ice cream, and chocolate are super healthy imo. Ditch the “heart healthy” salmon and stick your head under an ice cream machine for a few weeks. Guarantee you will feel much better.
Well, there is definitely some sense to it. Those foods are warming for sure, but getting a good temperature in the long run seems to almost require a good amount of carbohydrates, whether they are “yin” or “yang”.
hey coldmember…my situation is pretty similar to yours, can I email you and ask you a couple questions?
Coldmember, I would not make your winegums with diet soda with a bit of salt and lots of extra artificial sweetener. Artificial sweetners and diet soda are not good, then you can better make your winegums with Billington`s Natural Molasses and orange or lemon juice.
About gelatin:
Gelatin provides good benefit in our health. Gelatin made broth helps the body use protein in a more efficient way. It has been used effectively to treat digestive disorders.
Traditionally the whole animal was eaten, not just the meat and even organs, but the ‘odd bits’ where simmered for days covered with water with some acid such as vinegar or lemon juice added. The acid would breakdown the ‘odd bits’ and a delicious gelatin-rich broth/stock was created which would turn into a solid jelly/jell-o if put in a fridge. This broth would then be used as the base for soups, stews, sauces, and even drunk straight in times of illness when no other food would stay down. Gelatin is a truly wonderful food, and incredibly healing to the gut as enterocytes (intestine cells that do the absorbing) can feed off glycine directly. Gelatin is also very good for joints, as cartilage is made from gelatin, and in the same way it helps keep the skin smooth and wrinkle-free (could abandoning gelatin-rich broth be the reason for all these ‘anti-ageing’ creams?), and help your hair grow thick and shiny and your nails strong.
Also, remember that carbohydrates tempers cortisol. Furthermore, you can get gelatin as a replacement for carbohydrates. Gelatin balances further fat and protein-containing foods. Gelatin is also important to the mucus in your body that you need otherwise you get dry skin, dry eyes, constipation and a dry cough. Which could also be controlled with carbohydrates.
Read also:
http://mostlymeatiswhatieat.blogspot.ca/2012/10/mucous-not-glucose-deficiency.html#comment-form
http://raypeat.com/articles/articles/gelatin.shtml
I currently make my winegums with just salt and water most of the time, but that is more because of laziness, or because I don’t really crave sweetener after being sugared up for a longer period. I still drink diet soda on occasion, in stead of regular water, but not often.
Hey Coldmember- what’s your winegum recipe? It’d be nice to mess around and come up with some tasty, gelatin-y snacks.
Well, currently, I just boil water, gelatin and salt and put that in the fridge.
What I did in the past was boil diet soda(regular soda would probably work better) with until it is more concentrated(maybe 1/4 of the volume, takes quite a while to boil), then add lemon juice, gelatin, sweetener(sugar would probably work better also), and a little bit of salt.
What I will try one of these days: I found out eggshell calcium, which I recently started taking, when put in fruit juice, especially if you add lemon juice, starts bubbling. I figured it would be CaCO3+H2O?Ca(OH)2+CO2, and then the acid keeps using up the Ca(OH)2, so the balance shifts, and more Ca(OH)2+CO2 gets produced, untill the acid is used up. So it makes it extremely sweet by taking away the acid, and may give a fluffy texture to winegums. I’ve been drinking this bubbling orange/strawberry/lemon juice for a few days now, so maybe I should try that.
So I’d boil some water with gelatin and sugar or sweetener(and a bit of salt), and when it’s all dissolved, I add that to the juice with ground eggshells(which I will not heat), which I will have had sitting for a minute or ten(bubbles don’t start instantly, and I’d want to get rid of some of the acid for sweeter taste). Then just put that in the fridge and see what it ends up with. Probably need a high ratio of gelatin to juice, or it will get really soft.
Hey Coldmember,
I dont know if you still check up on the blog comments but if you happen to see this I would love to ask you a couple of questions over e-mail, it would be of great help.
Thanks,
Andrew
Lovely, I’m not the only one that hammered his man parts to an early grave.
A question though, if you’ll entertain:
I’m a 19 year young male (hopefully still?) that accidentally fell into a paleo-induced orthorexic tangle and snare for a good year and a half. Brilliant, I know. I’m still shaking a fist at Dave Asprey over every coffee. In short, I’ve been pretty damn aggressively refeeding (as i’m sure my badly beaten and empty wallet can attest to) for a little over a month now and just got back a hormone panel I had done this week.
Free Testosterone is up to 535 from 297, LH is 4.2, DHT is 40, Estradiol is 24.6, Prolactin 10.0, Progesterone 1.1 and SHGB 30.5.
Grand. Not incredible, but good to know it’s not as bad as I expected. However, I still have fitful sleep, trouble getting up, no motivation, drive, focus, appetite, zero libido (but no problem getting an erection if needed) and am still missing my morning “pal”, so to speak.
And this is probably because my Free Testosterone is at an abysmally sad (and by sad i mean utterly masticating 75 year old manpa level of) 8.7 with a low FSH of 1.0. The only thing that is high is my DHEA-S at 494.2 (which I take means my cortisol/stress needs to calm down? Probably where the acne is coming from too).
My TSH, T3, and T4 are fine, my morning temperatures are 97.3 but after some food shoots up to 98.3 and 98.4-98.7 held over the day. I pretty much max out on carbs and fat with most protein at breakfast and lunch. Digestion and appetite is still slow but i still maintain a pride inducing and swift and loose-y ‘movement’ at least once a day while peeing shimmery light-golden rivers 4-5 times a day; if that matters or just provides an illustration to my being.
So basically (which i’m sure is no more basic than I’d like it to be) any ideas on what to do? Anything to consider changing or adding? I recently started taking some Boron and bought Tongkat Ali and Mucuna Pruriens (L-Dopa) in hopeful attempt to roundhouse my lacking areas- any comment on those? Friend? Foe? Pointlessly filling?
Either way, thank you for spelunking through that catacomb of text and forgive the interrogation:
As sincerely as you can be through a comment box,
Manboy Mikey