Since the early days I’ve been talking about many of the transgenerational phenomena when it comes to human health. By transgenerational I’m talking about stuff that is not?”genetic” (like how we are coded to have two eyes, two ears, and ten fingers), but outside dietary and lifestyle forces that affect our heredity -?everything from fatty acid imbalances to heavy metal buildup to?low nutrient levels to stressful?events to the ability of your parents’ weight loss attempts or stupid health ideas?and how it can?plop you into the world with a “thrifty metabolism.”??The most thorough writing I did on it was in 180 Degree Diabetes in a chapter entitled “Nutritional History.”
Anyway, the following video passed along to me by frequent 180 Commentor Kash Money (warning, intentional cheese slinging coming up…)?really rang my register. I was like, Ka-Ching! Put that in the bank and watch it make 2% while the?price of everything goes up 20 times as much. It’s money baby!
Sorry, too many hours at the beach and too many tangerines today (Florida). Just trying to mimic the diet of JT’s personal hero Clyde the Orangutan for a day (it’s cool, he’s mine too).
Oh the video, yeah. It’s about Epigenetics and how the human body has developed an incredibly complex system of on and off switches in response to various environmental factors that help prepare the future offspring for’the upcoming world it’s about to enter into. When you let the true significance of that set in you realize just how profound and mysterious and?most of all – important epigenetics really is. So much for low-carb Paleo diet theory, the last few generations probably have a lot more to do with our “blueprint” than the?ancient one, and the low-carb adapted folk?out there left the gene pool quite a while back (Except for Gary “Nanook” Taubes?who was raised by Eskimos before becoming a journalist soldier in a vicious Macronutrient War against the invisible enemy Insulin Bin Laden).
76 Comments
grass fed momma
on January 20, 2011 at 1:26 am
classic. Off to eat some mexi food, back to later to watch the whole thing and comment some more. I have been called a comment whore, won't deny it. :)
that video put shivers down my spine… this explains so much– the sudden epidemic of diabetes, cancer, obesity… We have a scarryyy future ahead. Its like "The Christmas Carol"- the ghosts of present, past, and future. "Please tell me I can wipe away my name from that gravestone"
anonymous, Unfortunately, you may not be able to but at least what you can do is help your offspring have a better chance at life than perhaps what you had
Lorelei aka Hawaiigirl
on January 20, 2011 at 6:18 am
Matt, one topic I'd be interested in is epigenetics for kids – as in, since they're still growing, can we reverse some damage (even though they were already born to a mom w/bad health). For example, could we even improve their jaw structure? I have one of those huge overbites that make orthognathic surgeons' eyes light up. I think epigenetics is fascinating, it wasn't around when I was in grad school, and I've only just encountered it in the last few months. It almost (almost) makes me want to go back and have a new research project. Except for when I remember how much I hated grad school…
Since learning about epigentics a year or two ago, I've thought about if often… and I think it helps to explain why I have some of the issues that I do, given my parent's lifestyles. I think I was basically born in starvation mode.
However, I don't think it's such a big issue any more since watching this video about 10 mins ago – it was such a game changer.
Check it out – I'm going to try it out starting tomorrow:
Interesting programme. Basically the evolutionary mechanism under a magnifying glass. Like all mechanisms, it is deviating from it's path due to modern stresses / toxins.
Can we influence our individual DNA expression in our own lives and halt a negative trait?
Yes we can.
The perfect follow up post to this would be on Lipton's "Biology Of Belief" which explains that our beliefs and feelings can switch on or off parts of our DNA.
After all, is that not what weight set point is influenced by after basic nutririon? The Jon Gabriel story is just one of many ways that our minds dictate how our bodies change the way they express themselves genetically.
We all inherit a box of lego at birth complete with instructions for building a house. The lego bricks are pretty much the same each time but the instructions can be changed to build a better, stronger house.
We all instinctively know this which is why we strive to improve ourselves. But it is not until we consciously focus on our mental and emotional perceptions of our environment and ourselves that we are equipped with an eraser and pencil to amend our design.
The video helps solidify what I've believed all along, and what research continually shows in a dozen different ways – most of our health can be attributable to heredity.
But it also shows that genes are highly mutable, and that every second counts. Obviously we have great power to influence our hereditary tendencies through dietary and lifestyle change. It's up to us in a sense, to take matters into our own hands and lay the groundwork for our future lives.
Fortunately, most epigenetic triggers seem to take place within a year leading up to conception of our offspring and during pregnancy. As a couple of RRARF moms and dads have witnessed, there's quite a difference in your kids when you eat well and get the body out of the famine state before the kid comes out.
But it also teaches us to have some level of understanding for why we have the health problems we do. It teaches compassion as well. We get to look at people like the Pima Indians, who transitioned from rabbit food to a major famine to the standard American Diet in rapid succession with no adjustment period, yielding the perfect mismatch of calorie dense high-pleasure diet with famine low calorie density preparedness.
It's interesting no doubt. And yes, our brains, along with our nutrition and lifestyle, are the most powerful mechanisms we have access to for changing the course of our hereditary compass.
The video leaves us feeling a blend of hope for how we can positively influence our health and the health of future generations, and realistic expectations for what we can hope to achieve in our own healthscapades.
"The video leaves us feeling a blend of hope for how we can positively influence our health and the health of future generations, and realistic expectations for what we can hope to achieve in our own healthscapades."
Realistic expectations are huge. I think everyone has the capacity to improve their health, but we cannot all improve our health and fitness to the same standards. And we certainly can't all achieve the same body composition through natural means, though diet and exercise gurus would like you to think otherwise.
Matt, Have you read the 10000 Year Explosion? Fits well with your current post. Shows how humans have evolved extremely rapidly to adjust to the new diet. It presents a very strong case against those who think the paleo diet is optimal for modern man. A must read for all of those who are having a hard time overcoming paleophilia.
Wow Matt – thanks for posting this video. This is so big and so amazing and it will explain so much. I need to watch it again to absorb the implications. Thanks for being a consistent source of thought provoking information.
I think I found the Swedish study mentioned in the video.
Kaati G, Bygren LO, Pembrey M, Sjostrom M. 2007. Transgenerational response to nutrition, early life circumstances and longevity. Eur J Hum Genet 15:784?790.
Quote from paper: "The non-adjusted mortality hazards among probands, whose paternal grandparents had experienced at least 1 year of good availability during their SGP, revealed more premature deaths among them compared with those probands where paternal grandparents had not had any such good year during their SGP."
SGP is defined as 9-12 years of age for boys and 8-10 for girls. So, basically those kids who had poor nutrition (low food availability) during the SGP had grandchildren who lived longer. Am I supposed to starve my children during those sensitive years in order to make sure their grandchildren live longer?? That seems to be what this study implies. Yet it goes against everything I've learned about ensuring healthy offspring. I'm really having a hard time figuring out what to make of this. The only thing I can come up with is that high food availability does not necessarily equal good nutrition. However, these people would not have had access to junk food, so in general the food would have been of relatively good quality.
Karin, well you could look at the "positives" of low food availablity. That includes white flour, sugar, etc. They didn't ruin things with crap.
This whole epigenetics thing makes my brain hurt. Also, does it seem the BBC is being super creepy with the production values on this thing. The first thing that came to mind watching it was Nazi medical experiments…probably the effect of projecting newsreel footage off naked kids.
Also, what's up with all the Orangutan love lately. You all should know that Gibbons are the best apes by now.
Ok I am so glad that Karin posted that, as I was a food asshole till around my daughter turning 8, whew! I say feed your kids like Jenny to the N says, good whole foods, don't restrict anything but the pufas, gluten stuff (IMO) and sugar in all forms, even keeping fruit to a few a day unless it's berries. My kid is thin and she eats like this: Breakfast: Bison sausage simmered in bone broth I made from grass fed beef bones, with refried beans organic with green chili (mild) in a two egg (pastured soy free chickens) omlet, cooked in grassfed butter. She downed that sucker so fast I thought she fed it to the dog ;) Lunch: two corn tortillas warmed in same butter, with more refried beans, carne asada beef and a bit of cheese, a packet of kelp (TJ's) and an organic strawberry rollup.
You get the picture. she eats it all, never gets sick for more than a day or less, has not missed a day of school in her life etc . Boring but crucial, NO cavities to date, turns ten in May.
I am jealous of her, I wish I did not grow up on freakin' Lucky Charms, skim milk, wonder bread and bologna to name a few non foods I scarfed down. And at her age, I was already feeling a bit chubby, not fat, just not super thin.
Heres to Eating The Real Whole Foods!!!!! xo frozen hagis PS for my fans, I plan on doing a new post on grass fed momma TODAY!
PS I was also cavity ridden all my life and have so many crowns and root canals if they all fell out I would be a toothless grinning hag :) True Story Folks.
That's a good video, thanks. What I don't like is that the scientists who appear in the video claim to have discovered something radically new. This is what people like Mae Whan Ho, Ray Peat, Gilbert Ling, and others have been saying for decades! Nevertheless it's good to see that they are finally getting away from their stupid genetic dogma.
grass fed momma, When I told you a few days ago that I think that the genetic dogma you believe in was racist and stupid you were really pissed off. Now that they say it in a BBC production you seem to have no problem with it, at all – what happened? My question is not meant to be offensive, I really just wanna know?
Here are the years they looked at in the study: "Food availability in the province including the research area was determined from official statistics for the years 1803?1815 and 1850?1900 and the estimates of a 19th century statistician for the years 1816?1849."
Now I'm not saying sugar and white flour weren't available during those years, but the video made it clear this area was very remote, and I doubt they had access to very much industrial food. So, while I would like to believe the reason for the longevity in grandchildren due to "poor nutrition" in the grandparents is limited junk food, I'm just having trouble buying that.
Jannis, I had the same feeling about the scientists. I just kept thinking in the back of my head… every traditional culture on earth already knew this, and that's why they had preconception nutritional guidelines.
from an article in Discover magazine a few years ago on epigenetics :
Scientists are still coming to understand the many ways that epigenetic changes unfold at the biochemical level. One form of epigenetic change physically blocks access to the genes by altering what is called the histone code. The DNA in every cell is tightly wound around proteins known as histones and must be unwound to be transcribed. Alterations to this packaging cause certain genes to be more or less available to the cell's chemical machinery and so determine whether those genes are expressed or silenced. A second, well-understood form of epigenetic signaling, called DNA methylation, involves the addition of a methyl group?a carbon atom plus three hydrogen atoms’to particular bases in the DNA sequence. This interferes with the chemical signals that would put the gene into action and thus effectively silences the gene.
It sounds like the protein making machinery is just blocked. If you eat a good diet it gradually becomes unblocked. I don't think we should think of these epigenetic states as permanent for life states.
Aaron, Yes it's really weird. But it's a good example of how the medical establishment works. It's a buisness, not a science. This whole dogma never made any sense. Neither scientifically, nor from a simple observational standpoint. You just have to watch nature to recognize that the environment at every point effects the structure of organisms.
Epigenetics is a very fascinating piece of discovery indeed, in the world of science.
I'm not a scientist, but I certainly understand the science of epigenetics, thanks to the organizations I've partnered with, like Nu Skin Enterprises and Life Gen Technologies…Purdue University and Stanford School of Science.
I'm in the business of helping people take 15-20 years off their faces in as little as 10 minutes and also help people reset their bodies to behave like they were 20 again! In other words, thanks to the science of epigenetics and our exclusive technology of "ageLOC", for the 1st time in human history, we are able to turn back the clock of the human body! That's just fascinating!
P.S.: What if I told you that we've also found a way to extend the human life span by +30%….by turning on the epigenetic 'switches' of the "sertuin" gene, helping people live healthier, longer.
Lorelei aka Hawaiigirl
on January 20, 2011 at 11:40 pm
After watching this video, it leaves me with a LOT of questions about transgenerational epigenetics. I'm sure the program didn't cover things in enough depth, but the effect was it left me actually doubting.
For example, if all it takes is a famine period somewhere in our ancestors' past during the critical sex-cell forming time of their lives, well… surely all of us would be diabetic by now. Unless the effect wears off at some point… but how long? And what causes it turn back off?
Or the example of in utero stress from 9/11… well, is that really gene switching, or is that the effects of in utero hormone dosing? Since the examples they have are only one generation out, we couldn't say. What about the grandchildren of Holocaust survivors? Are they anxious? And the anxious children, were their mothers pregnant during the Holocaust? Or does a stressful period carry on to the children whether they are in utero or not? Not clear.
Problem with the rats and the pesticide exposure – how do we know it wasn't mutations, rather than gene switching?
I dunno, the implications for me were not hopeful – it was more that eventually we're all going to be stressed out diabetics with breast cancer, because these genes get turned on and keep going and going and going. To me epigenetics implies that genes can be switched on OR off by our environment and our actions, and I wasn't getting that impression. Otherwise, it's more an example of gene mutations.
Again, probably the show's fault for being rather superficial. Not the best way to learn real science.
well….according to this i should not ever have children. given my past with anorexia, my famine is just going to re-chromosome-DNA into my children and leave them obese, diabetic, arms coming out of their mouths…..very promising matt…but come to think of it… i wasnt genetically 'a food freak who starved herself' my entire life…the 'switch' was turned on in college without me even realizing it. so maybe the off switch needs to be anything BUT persuaded, pushed, 'thoguht about'… i dunno, im hopeful b/c i want like 938452039485 kids one day
i'm eating right now
on January 21, 2011 at 3:51 am
Off-topic, but I need advice. I've been following 180-ish principles for the past several months, and have really felt tons better. But recently, I have developed what seems like an insatiable appetite. I am definitely eating enough carbs, I have played with more and more fat (sometimes I can't help but eat coconut butter by the spoonful!) and today I ate rotisserie chicken off the bone as I made bfast, lunch, and dinner. I don't know what is up. I probably ate 3000 cals today– and I had really gotten into the groove of my appetite, not counting for a while, but I really feel like I could not stop eating this past week or so. I'd kicked most/all of my sugar cravings, without feeling deprived, but the past 3 days I felt like I NEEDED it… and that's fine, but the sheer amount of FOOD I ate was alarming. What's going on?! Anyone? I know Matt is all about "eating the food," but being insatiable like this is upsetting! I've gained my RRARF weight, and I just want to eat peacefully again :(
Perhaps you need to familiarise yourself with hunger and learn to live with it and tame it. Hunger can be sign of good health, it shows you your body is functioning normally. (Sick people are not hungry for example). I was a thin hungry person for a long time and I think that's how it is naturally to be. "What's for dinner?" was always the question I'd be asking my mother. Enjoy the healthy hunger you have developed. RRARFing to kill your hunger should be a very temporary measure, otherwise I'm guessing your body will adapt to be hungry regardless of how much you eat. Eat sensible meals and get some activity inbetween. Read JT's comments are good.
Nice comment from Anonymous! I think the key is to be hungry but in a calm way while eating lots of food – the process of hunger and then satisfying that hunger is an amazing feeling and as you say shows a body functioning well.
Hunger is not a bad sign. It's more a sign of being a hypermetabolic beast. Plus, our food needs change depending on what life presents us with, and it's best not to argue with it – including eating some sugar if that's calling you. Just being in winter puts a huge stress on a lot of people's physical bodies.
Karin- The life extension generally comes from underdevelopment. That's generally thought to be why calorie restriction "works" in a laboratory. It doesn't work if you start it after the formative years, only from the beginning.
But what that research doesn't show is that these kids could very well have been neurotic their whole lives, no sex drive/poor fertility, poorly muscled… you just don't know the whole story. Common sense trumps studies.
Jannis- I know, what a "discovery" huh? Weston A. Price was only showing this back in 1939! But at least they are bringing some hardcore real data to the table.
JT-
Sounds like a winner. I'll check it out. There's no doubt that the two biggest nutritional breakthroughs in human history were:
1) Cooking 2) Developing a food supply with a constant and steady supply of both carbohydrates and calories
Humans were just a particularly smart and resourceful ape prior to those breakthroughs.
Thanks for responding. I know the calorie restriction studies I've looked at that were performed on monkeys did "work". They did live longer, but they looked pretty miserable. I was just amazed that "poor nutrition" could have an apparently positive effect — longevity. However, it's clearly not worth the trade-offs.
The question is always "why" did it work. Part of it is underdevelopment – a small dog outlives a big one. Ray Peat things limiting polyunsaturated fats and amino acids like cysteine, methionine, and tryptophan may be responsible for the longevity seen in "calorie restriction" studies.
Keep in mind monkies/rats/fruit flies are in a sterile laboratory – in the real world if you are underfed and hypometabolic you get infections like nobody's business.
But ultimately these underfed creatures are highly neurotic. People need to get the calorie restriction thing out of their heads and make "today" great. Living an extra few years as an old fart ain't something to sacrifice the good years of your life for.
Top of the pecking order hormones like testosterone, growth hormone, IGF-1, etc. aren't synonymous with longevity. They are associated with not getting sick, feeling awesome, being highly functional, being a sexual superstar, and having a high muscle mass to body fat ratio.
I think when most people realize the choice is between a long, shitty, neurotic, asexual life and a slightly shorter (but not drastically so) awesome, happy, balanced, abundant life – the right choice is clear.
I wish you would stop using me as an example 'a long, shitty, neurotic, asexual life'.
Seriously though, there were times in my neurotic food phobic stint that I was freaking starving and yet, in a store full of 'food' refused to eat a single thing.
Needless to say, those days are over and I no longer am afraid of cows or chickens. As long as they are happy and don't live short, poisoned, prison condition lives. :)
Thank you so much for clearing up calorie restriction. That's gonna get that shit out of the back of my head for good. It's been making me sick reading how it has been proven that calorie restriction will make you live longer.
I also suffer the same symptoms as you due to fructose malabsorption. Actually is more than fructose that gives me trouble as I have to watch out for foods high in FODMAPS.
Would be great if you could let us know on here if you find something that works to overcome it.
I am also a Vata/Pitta – professionally diagnosed.
Sure, I will let everyone know if I find the magic bullet =P Actually I can't really go about trying any time soon cause I'll be travelling and that will mean restricted food choices including some bloating :(
In my opinion, solving the problem will mean changing the intestinal flora, which will take a long time. I suppose it will involve alleviating the symptoms first by cutting out everything that causes trouble, maybe RRARFing on that diet, and then gradually introducing more fiber. It may also mean one has to make lifestile and more so attitude changes to alleviate stress and accompanying chronic tension. I'm trying to achieve the letter by practicing yoga now (not just stretching excercises, but the full monty.)
Btw, Matt had two posts that dealt with fructose malabsorpion way back. I don't have the time to re-read them now, but I will do that later. Not sure if they are still valid, though.
I was just reading Whole health source and everybody is all FODMAPSY over there too. Fructose, lactose and fiber cause digestive problems, this is not a huge discovery. I was saying that stuff a while back without any knowledge of this FODAMPS stuff.
The important questions are:
1. Do we really want to eat nothing but salad and meat forever?
2. If not, what do we do about these intolerance's?
-Bonus question-
3. Maybe question one give us a hint as to why this FODMAPS stuff is popular in the Paleo sphere? =p
>>I've heard stomach pain can be caused by low HCL / H. pylori. And H. pylori is very hard to diagnose.
I had an esophagogastroduodenoscopy (what a word! I wikied that… anyway, that's where they shove a tube into your stomach and you get to watch it on a screen, they also take tissue samples) done a decade ago due to constant pain in the stomach. They diagnosed heliobactor pilori. I took antibiotics and had two more examinations done, both didn't find any h.pilori. However, the symptoms remained the same. The pain became temporary instead of constant when I changed my diet to whole foods and stopped drinking.
As to low stomach acidity, I thought that might allow h.pilori to flourish, and I thought it would also fix my problems… however, it didn't. Recently I tried taking HCl once more and one capsule already gave my heartburn. I also don't have problems with my stomach not emptying forever after meals anymore. Those only happen when I eat those evil FODMAPS. Fiber is fine with me to a degree, however.
Bears. The number one threat to our nation, has a strange and possibly helpful reproductive cycle. Bears give birth in January when they are in the low metabolic state. They have tiny cubs (around a pound). They hybernate till March when the cubs are about 10 pounds, still not that big compared to 500 pound mama bear. What is up with that? Why such little babies? Why the low metabolic state? Why not just keep gestating longer? Perhaps having low birth weight babies allows them to have bigger litters and the low metabolic state allows them to breast feed efficiently. The cubs must not be low metabolic because they grow ten times their size in two months. Possibly helpful info for those of us who had babies when their bodies were in metabolic slow down. It's not the end of the world. Perhaps explains why my kid craves the bear diet of nuts, berries and honey. Still can't get him to catch fish with his bare hands, though.
HCL caused weird reactions with me initially. I got lots of acid reflux but not heartburn/indigestion.
I just kept taking it anyway to see what would happen though, and it went away after about a week. Also taking it with large meals prevented reflux, so meal size matters.
HAGamemnon: Yeah, he's hilarious. He would literally eat JP&J for every meal if I'd let him. I'm trying to figure out a way to make PB&J sushi for him.
Of course I say that but he ate Pate Campagna for dinner last night with some home made lacto-fermented veggies.
The Real Will: there's a reason pneumonia is called the old-people's friend. I think my Grandfather who lived to be 100 had it yearly his entire 90s. Then I know at least one Centarian who's never had it.
Jenny, you know the reason is not because they get it a lot, but because it used to kill them fairly quickly and peacefully (at least before antibiotics and aggressive treatment.)
Anyone out there heard of The Manorama Formula by Dr Legha? Looks very much in line with Matt's recommendations. Here's a quote: "Reducing diets dictate non-preferred foods in non-preferred quantities at non-preferred times. They destabilize the appetite and blunt its finer tuning. So the body's needs are not met and the appetite circle is kept open" "The cost of a starvation diet is exhaustion, depression and mental clouding while the diet is in progress, anxiety, loss of control and feelings of helplessness during the phase of weight regain, and feelings of failure and hopelessness when it has been regained."
How long did it take for the HCl to work? What did it do for you?
I might give it another try, but I'm not confident because my prior experience wasn't promising. It seemed to do nothing for me re tolerating foods better.
One week into avoiding fructose and whole grains and my belly is flat. No more farting, no more bloating. My poop is anything but perfect, but still… I have the same weight but look 5kg lighter and my pants fit better. HCl didn't do that for me.
Jenny- Interesting thoughts on bears. Their whole existence is one of feast and famine and they need a feast or famine metabolism. Wouldn't want to give birth when your metabolism is high and pump out a bear that didn't feel that weight gain was necessary. You want a fat storage machine. Interestingly, low birth weight has a very tight correlation with developing obesity later in life.
Matt, you've totally cracked the bear mystery! Bears have the lowest birthweight per size of the mother of any mammal and as you say, they need to be fat storage machines because of their lifestyle. I wonder if they have undergone adaptational changes since a lot of them have access to garbage dumps, the animal world equivalent of a casino buffet? Do they eat the food and let their metabolism adjust or does the chronic stress of a changed environment kill them, like it does humans in the same boat? Questions I will have for the no doubt baffled zoo keepers at the Bear center next time I go there.
Took about a week for loose stools and acne to improve. Fruit was tolerated fine before (in terms of gas) just with lots of acne and looser/lighter colored stools.
I don't think HCL got rid of any intolerance's just to be clear, but it did prevent malabsorption of carbs and things that I associate with it, like light colored stools and bad acne. I'd say color is the best indicator of how much HCL one needs.
Taking it 30 minutes after a meal is supposed to be the best time to take it too.
My guess would be taking HCL with lots of high fiber foods wouldn't have as pronounced an effect on digestion as taking HCL for malabsorption of carbohydrates specifically.
I took it with the meal. Maybe that was too early?
Your original problem was with fruit? Did you ever try an elimination diet to see if that was really the cause? For me everything improves when I eat a fructose and dairy "free" and moderate fiber diet.
I don't really see how HCl would be the decisive factor, I mean fiber isn't digested by HCl (If I'm not mistaken), and fruit doesn't need a lot of HCl at all to be digested. Food like beef which needs a lot doesn't give me problems on the other hand.
>My guess would be taking HCL with lots of high fiber foods wouldn't have as pronounced an effect on digestion as taking HCL for malabsorption of carbohydrates specifically.
I don't really understand that, can you elaborate?
"I took it with the meal. Maybe that was too early?"
Yes, amylase enzymes from the saliva will be neutralized by HCL stopping carbohydrate digestion.
"Did you ever try an elimination diet to see if that was really the cause?"
Yes, I did low-carb for a year with no sugar or fruit. I can also get the symptoms by adding and removing fruit to my diet as acne comes and goes fairly quickly.
"fiber isn't digested by HCl"
Yes, so my guess is carbohydrate malabsorption is the key issue for me that is resolved by HCL.
How does HCL help? I think the mixture of food leaving the stomach has to be somewhat acidic for the pancreas to be stimulated to neutralize it.
It's just a guess but maybe that also stimulates pancreatic enzyme production/release, which includes enzymes that digest carbohydrate.
Thanks, that makes a lot of sense. I wonder why they don't mention that on the bottle… or in their online store… I'm giving it another shot now and eating it after my meal in which I include some sugary sweets just to see if it will help.
Do you still have to take the HCl? With every meal?
I only take it after a meal with fruit/sugar/fructose.
If anything it makes me constipated when I take it with fruit as opposed to the loose stools I had previously.
You should still be careful about that stomach pain though. My guess is that it would go away after a week or two, but depending on severity that might be too long to wait and see.
I'm not trying to make HCL a cure all or anything.
It seems to be helping somewhat with digestion in general. Maybe it helps with fat digestion actually. Seems like I still have to keep sugar / fructose / fruit very low though. It doesn't make me bloated now, but stools are still bad and I feel like shit if I eat more than a little. The pain is actually greatly reduced now that I take the HCl 30min after meals. I'll keep testing it…
Three of my children were diagnosed with Hashimoto's when they were 9. I was diagnosed right before I turned 20. My mother was diagnosed in her early thirties. My grandmother was diagnosed in her early forties. My great-grandmother was diagnosed in her late forties. There are also cousins, and aunts and uncles who have this as well. Mainly though women. My three children I am referring to are triplets, 2 girls, 1 boy.
RRARF seems to help people raise their metabolism and improve their health. But what do you think about what Ryan Koch mentioned on his blog about the grandfather's access to food and the longevity of his offspring? He quoted the Univeristy of Utah website about epigenetics. Here's the quote:
These records showed that food availability between the ages of nine and twelve for the paternal grandfather affected the lifespan of his grandchildren. But not in the way you might think.
Shortage of food for the grandfather was associated with extended lifespan of his grandchildren. Food abundance, on the other hand, was associated with a greatly shortened lifespan of the grandchildren. Early death was the result of either diabetes or heart disease. Could it be that during this critical period of development for the grandfather, epigenetic mechanisms are "capturing" nutritional information about the environment to pass on to the next generation?
classic.
Off to eat some mexi food, back to later to watch the whole thing and comment some more.
I have been called a comment whore, won't deny it.
:)
I see nothing using my iPhone browser. I guess I'll have to go to the library. Is this YouTube?
If I was Matt I would say this to you Johnny Lawrence:
'You couldn't leave well enough alone, could you, little twerp? No, you had to push it. Well, now you're gonna pay!'
No reason, I would just say that. Or maybe Johnny would say that or maybe not.
anyway..
that video put shivers down my spine… this explains so much– the sudden epidemic of diabetes, cancer, obesity… We have a scarryyy future ahead. Its like "The Christmas Carol"- the ghosts of present, past, and future. "Please tell me I can wipe away my name from that gravestone"
anonymous,
Unfortunately, you may not be able to but at least what you can do is help your offspring have a better chance at life than perhaps what you had
Matt, one topic I'd be interested in is epigenetics for kids – as in, since they're still growing, can we reverse some damage (even though they were already born to a mom w/bad health). For example, could we even improve their jaw structure? I have one of those huge overbites that make orthognathic surgeons' eyes light up. I think epigenetics is fascinating, it wasn't around when I was in grad school, and I've only just encountered it in the last few months. It almost (almost) makes me want to go back and have a new research project. Except for when I remember how much I hated grad school…
Matt, humble thank you for this amazing video link! :)
Since learning about epigentics a year or two ago, I've thought about if often… and I think it helps to explain why I have some of the issues that I do, given my parent's lifestyles. I think I was basically born in starvation mode.
However, I don't think it's such a big issue any more since watching this video about 10 mins ago – it was such a game changer.
Check it out – I'm going to try it out starting tomorrow:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-n-oE2otVJk
Ian2.
Interesting programme. Basically the evolutionary mechanism under a magnifying glass. Like all mechanisms, it is deviating from it's path due to modern stresses / toxins.
Can we influence our individual DNA expression in our own lives and halt a negative trait?
Yes we can.
The perfect follow up post to this would be on Lipton's "Biology Of Belief" which explains that our beliefs and feelings can switch on or off parts of our DNA.
After all, is that not what weight set point is influenced by after basic nutririon? The Jon Gabriel story is just one of many ways that our minds dictate how our bodies change the way they express themselves genetically.
Very Cool Stuff! And nice picture at the top haha…
I see it like this:
We all inherit a box of lego at birth complete with instructions for building a house.
The lego bricks are pretty much the same each time but the instructions can be changed to build a better, stronger house.
We all instinctively know this which is why we strive to improve ourselves.
But it is not until we consciously focus on our mental and emotional perceptions of our environment and ourselves that we are equipped with an eraser and pencil to amend our design.
The video helps solidify what I've believed all along, and what research continually shows in a dozen different ways – most of our health can be attributable to heredity.
But it also shows that genes are highly mutable, and that every second counts. Obviously we have great power to influence our hereditary tendencies through dietary and lifestyle change. It's up to us in a sense, to take matters into our own hands and lay the groundwork for our future lives.
Fortunately, most epigenetic triggers seem to take place within a year leading up to conception of our offspring and during pregnancy. As a couple of RRARF moms and dads have witnessed, there's quite a difference in your kids when you eat well and get the body out of the famine state before the kid comes out.
But it also teaches us to have some level of understanding for why we have the health problems we do. It teaches compassion as well. We get to look at people like the Pima Indians, who transitioned from rabbit food to a major famine to the standard American Diet in rapid succession with no adjustment period, yielding the perfect mismatch of calorie dense high-pleasure diet with famine low calorie density preparedness.
It's interesting no doubt. And yes, our brains, along with our nutrition and lifestyle, are the most powerful mechanisms we have access to for changing the course of our hereditary compass.
The video leaves us feeling a blend of hope for how we can positively influence our health and the health of future generations, and realistic expectations for what we can hope to achieve in our own healthscapades.
"The video leaves us feeling a blend of hope for how we can positively influence our health and the health of future generations, and realistic expectations for what we can hope to achieve in our own healthscapades."
Realistic expectations are huge. I think everyone has the capacity to improve their health, but we cannot all improve our health and fitness to the same standards. And we certainly can't all achieve the same body composition through natural means, though diet and exercise gurus would like you to think otherwise.
Matt,
Have you read the 10000 Year Explosion? Fits well with your current post. Shows how humans have evolved extremely rapidly to adjust to the new diet. It presents a very strong case against those who think the paleo diet is optimal for modern man. A must read for all of those who are having a hard time overcoming paleophilia.
Wow Matt – thanks for posting this video. This is so big and so amazing and it will explain so much. I need to watch it again to absorb the implications. Thanks for being a consistent source of thought provoking information.
Matt,
I think I found the Swedish study mentioned in the video.
Kaati G, Bygren LO, Pembrey M, Sjostrom M. 2007. Transgenerational response to nutrition, early life circumstances and
longevity. Eur J Hum Genet 15:784?790.
Quote from paper: "The non-adjusted mortality hazards among probands,
whose paternal grandparents had experienced at least 1
year of good availability during their SGP, revealed more
premature deaths among them compared with those
probands where paternal grandparents had not had any
such good year during their SGP."
SGP is defined as 9-12 years of age for boys and 8-10 for girls. So, basically those kids who had poor nutrition (low food availability) during the SGP had grandchildren who lived longer. Am I supposed to starve my children during those sensitive years in order to make sure their grandchildren live longer?? That seems to be what this study implies. Yet it goes against everything I've learned about ensuring healthy offspring. I'm really having a hard time figuring out what to make of this. The only thing I can come up with is that high food availability does not necessarily equal good nutrition. However, these people would not have had access to junk food, so in general the food would have been of relatively good quality.
Oops, forgot to put link to paper in. Here it is on pubmed: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17457370
Karin, well you could look at the "positives" of low food availablity. That includes white flour, sugar, etc. They didn't ruin things with crap.
This whole epigenetics thing makes my brain hurt. Also, does it seem the BBC is being super creepy with the production values on this thing. The first thing that came to mind watching it was Nazi medical experiments…probably the effect of projecting newsreel footage off naked kids.
Also, what's up with all the Orangutan love lately. You all should know that Gibbons are the best apes by now.
Ok I am so glad that Karin posted that, as I was a food asshole till around my daughter turning 8, whew!
I say feed your kids like Jenny to the N says, good whole foods, don't restrict anything but the pufas, gluten stuff (IMO) and sugar in all forms, even keeping fruit to a few a day unless it's berries. My kid is thin and she eats like this:
Breakfast: Bison sausage simmered in bone broth I made from grass fed beef bones, with refried beans organic with green chili (mild) in a two egg (pastured soy free chickens) omlet, cooked in grassfed butter. She downed that sucker so fast I thought she fed it to the dog ;)
Lunch: two corn tortillas warmed in same butter, with more refried beans, carne asada beef and a bit of cheese, a packet of kelp (TJ's) and an organic strawberry rollup.
You get the picture. she eats it all, never gets sick for more than a day or less, has not missed a day of school in her life etc . Boring but crucial, NO cavities to date, turns ten in May.
I am jealous of her, I wish I did not grow up on freakin' Lucky Charms, skim milk, wonder bread and bologna to name a few non foods I scarfed down. And at her age, I was already feeling a bit chubby, not fat, just not super thin.
Heres to Eating The Real Whole Foods!!!!!
xo
frozen hagis
PS for my fans, I plan on doing a new post on grass fed momma TODAY!
PS I was also cavity ridden all my life and have so many crowns and root canals if they all fell out I would be a toothless grinning hag :) True Story Folks.
That's a good video, thanks.
What I don't like is that the scientists who appear in the video claim to have discovered something radically new.
This is what people like Mae Whan Ho, Ray Peat, Gilbert Ling, and others have been saying for decades!
Nevertheless it's good to see that they are finally getting away from their stupid genetic dogma.
grass fed momma,
When I told you a few days ago that I think that the genetic dogma you believe in was racist and stupid you were really pissed off. Now that they say it in a BBC production you seem to have no problem with it, at all – what happened?
My question is not meant to be offensive, I really just wanna know?
Here are the years they looked at in the study: "Food availability in the province including the research area was determined from official statistics for the years
1803?1815 and 1850?1900 and the estimates of a 19th century statistician for the years 1816?1849."
Now I'm not saying sugar and white flour weren't available during those years, but the video made it clear this area was very remote, and I doubt they had access to very much industrial food. So, while I would like to believe the reason for the longevity in grandchildren due to "poor nutrition" in the grandparents is limited junk food, I'm just having trouble buying that.
Jannis: I guess I just believe everything I see on TV. I am a robot.
Thanks for your observations
You're welcome!
Jannis, I had the same feeling about the scientists. I just kept thinking in the back of my head… every traditional culture on earth already knew this, and that's why they had preconception nutritional guidelines.
I dunno, science is weird… full of egos.
from an article in Discover magazine a few years ago on epigenetics :
Scientists are still coming to understand the many ways that epigenetic changes unfold at the biochemical level. One form of epigenetic change physically blocks access to the genes by altering what is called the histone code. The DNA in every cell is tightly wound around proteins known as histones and must be unwound to be transcribed. Alterations to this packaging cause certain genes to be more or less available to the cell's chemical machinery and so determine whether those genes are expressed or silenced. A second, well-understood form of epigenetic signaling, called DNA methylation, involves the addition of a methyl group?a carbon atom plus three hydrogen atoms’to particular bases in the DNA sequence. This interferes with the chemical signals that would put the gene into action and thus effectively silences the gene.
It sounds like the protein making machinery is just blocked. If you eat a good diet it gradually becomes unblocked. I don't think we should think of these epigenetic states as permanent for life states.
Aaron,
Yes it's really weird. But it's a good example of how the medical establishment works. It's a buisness, not a science.
This whole dogma never made any sense. Neither scientifically, nor from a simple observational standpoint. You just have to watch nature to recognize that the environment at every point effects the structure of organisms.
Hi Matt,
Epigenetics is a very fascinating piece of discovery indeed, in the world of science.
I'm not a scientist, but I certainly understand the science of epigenetics, thanks to the organizations I've partnered with, like Nu Skin Enterprises and Life Gen Technologies…Purdue University and Stanford School of Science.
I'm in the business of helping people take 15-20 years off their faces in as little as 10 minutes and also help people reset their bodies to behave like they were 20 again! In other words, thanks to the science of epigenetics and our exclusive technology of "ageLOC", for the 1st time in human history, we are able to turn back the clock of the human body! That's just fascinating!
If you want to know more, feel free to flick me an email at inspire@sohangokarn.com
thanks for the video post Matt!
P.S.: What if I told you that we've also found a way to extend the human life span by +30%….by turning on the epigenetic 'switches' of the "sertuin" gene, helping people live healthier, longer.
To Your Success,
Sohan Gokarn
The Iroquois knew this.
After watching this video, it leaves me with a LOT of questions about transgenerational epigenetics. I'm sure the program didn't cover things in enough depth, but the effect was it left me actually doubting.
For example, if all it takes is a famine period somewhere in our ancestors' past during the critical sex-cell forming time of their lives, well… surely all of us would be diabetic by now. Unless the effect wears off at some point… but how long? And what causes it turn back off?
Or the example of in utero stress from 9/11… well, is that really gene switching, or is that the effects of in utero hormone dosing? Since the examples they have are only one generation out, we couldn't say. What about the grandchildren of Holocaust survivors? Are they anxious? And the anxious children, were their mothers pregnant during the Holocaust? Or does a stressful period carry on to the children whether they are in utero or not? Not clear.
Problem with the rats and the pesticide exposure – how do we know it wasn't mutations, rather than gene switching?
I dunno, the implications for me were not hopeful – it was more that eventually we're all going to be stressed out diabetics with breast cancer, because these genes get turned on and keep going and going and going. To me epigenetics implies that genes can be switched on OR off by our environment and our actions, and I wasn't getting that impression. Otherwise, it's more an example of gene mutations.
Again, probably the show's fault for being rather superficial. Not the best way to learn real science.
well….according to this i should not ever have children. given my past with anorexia, my famine is just going to re-chromosome-DNA into my children and leave them obese, diabetic, arms coming out of their mouths…..very promising matt…but come to think of it… i wasnt genetically 'a food freak who starved herself' my entire life…the 'switch' was turned on in college without me even realizing it. so maybe the off switch needs to be anything BUT persuaded, pushed, 'thoguht about'… i dunno, im hopeful b/c i want like 938452039485 kids one day
Mal I hope you get at all the kids you want, although damn that is a large number you quoted there :)
There was a NOVA episode on the same exact thing back in 2007, Ghost in Your Genes.
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/genes/about.html
Off-topic, but I need advice. I've been following 180-ish principles for the past several months, and have really felt tons better. But recently, I have developed what seems like an insatiable appetite. I am definitely eating enough carbs, I have played with more and more fat (sometimes I can't help but eat coconut butter by the spoonful!) and today I ate rotisserie chicken off the bone as I made bfast, lunch, and dinner. I don't know what is up. I probably ate 3000 cals today– and I had really gotten into the groove of my appetite, not counting for a while, but I really feel like I could not stop eating this past week or so. I'd kicked most/all of my sugar cravings, without feeling deprived, but the past 3 days I felt like I NEEDED it… and that's fine, but the sheer amount of FOOD I ate was alarming. What's going on?! Anyone? I know Matt is all about "eating the food," but being insatiable like this is upsetting! I've gained my RRARF weight, and I just want to eat peacefully again :(
Transcript of the NOVA version:
http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/transcripts/3413_genes.html
In reply to "I'm eating right now."
Perhaps you need to familiarise yourself with hunger and learn to live with it and tame it. Hunger can be sign of good health, it shows you your body is functioning normally. (Sick people are not hungry for example). I was a thin hungry person for a long time and I think that's how it is naturally to be. "What's for dinner?" was always the question I'd be asking my mother. Enjoy the healthy hunger you have developed. RRARFing to kill your hunger should be a very temporary measure, otherwise I'm guessing your body will adapt to be hungry regardless of how much you eat. Eat sensible meals and get some activity inbetween. Read JT's comments are good.
Nice comment from Anonymous! I think the key is to be hungry but in a calm way while eating lots of food – the process of hunger and then satisfying that hunger is an amazing feeling and as you say shows a body functioning well.
Abel did a coach'em up on this a few months ago.
Hunger is not a bad sign. It's more a sign of being a hypermetabolic beast. Plus, our food needs change depending on what life presents us with, and it's best not to argue with it – including eating some sugar if that's calling you. Just being in winter puts a huge stress on a lot of people's physical bodies.
Karin-
The life extension generally comes from underdevelopment. That's generally thought to be why calorie restriction "works" in a laboratory. It doesn't work if you start it after the formative years, only from the beginning.
But what that research doesn't show is that these kids could very well have been neurotic their whole lives, no sex drive/poor fertility, poorly muscled… you just don't know the whole story. Common sense trumps studies.
Jannis-
I know, what a "discovery" huh? Weston A. Price was only showing this back in 1939! But at least they are bringing some hardcore real data to the table.
JT-
Sounds like a winner. I'll check it out. There's no doubt that the two biggest nutritional breakthroughs in human history were:
1) Cooking
2) Developing a food supply with a constant and steady supply of both carbohydrates and calories
Humans were just a particularly smart and resourceful ape prior to those breakthroughs.
Hm, hypermetabolic. Now there's a thought! But, I don't want to store all this energy! I don't think I am "storing it" but there's no way of knowing..
ughhhhhhhh fukitol.
Matt,
Thanks for responding. I know the calorie restriction studies I've looked at that were performed on monkeys did "work". They did live longer, but they looked pretty miserable. I was just amazed that "poor nutrition" could have an apparently positive effect — longevity. However, it's clearly not worth the trade-offs.
I prefer my monkeys well fed and happy. That way they won't eat your face.
sorry, bad joke alert :(
The question is always "why" did it work. Part of it is underdevelopment – a small dog outlives a big one. Ray Peat things limiting polyunsaturated fats and amino acids like cysteine, methionine, and tryptophan may be responsible for the longevity seen in "calorie restriction" studies.
Keep in mind monkies/rats/fruit flies are in a sterile laboratory – in the real world if you are underfed and hypometabolic you get infections like nobody's business.
But ultimately these underfed creatures are highly neurotic. People need to get the calorie restriction thing out of their heads and make "today" great. Living an extra few years as an old fart ain't something to sacrifice the good years of your life for.
Top of the pecking order hormones like testosterone, growth hormone, IGF-1, etc. aren't synonymous with longevity. They are associated with not getting sick, feeling awesome, being highly functional, being a sexual superstar, and having a high muscle mass to body fat ratio.
I think when most people realize the choice is between a long, shitty, neurotic, asexual life and a slightly shorter (but not drastically so) awesome, happy, balanced, abundant life – the right choice is clear.
I wish you would stop using me as an example 'a long, shitty, neurotic, asexual life'.
Seriously though, there were times in my neurotic food phobic stint that I was freaking starving and yet, in a store full of 'food' refused to eat a single thing.
Needless to say, those days are over and I no longer am afraid of cows or chickens. As long as they are happy and don't live short, poisoned, prison condition lives.
:)
cool story, till the started talking about the imaginary tv carton planes… XD
Matt
Thank you so much for clearing up calorie restriction. That's gonna get that shit out of the back of my head for good. It's been making me sick reading how it has been proven that calorie restriction will make you live longer.
Finally got on something people were calling a "desktop"? Big contraption. Freakin google video sucks.
Hans
I also suffer the same symptoms as you due to fructose malabsorption. Actually is more than fructose that gives me trouble as I have to watch out for foods high in FODMAPS.
Would be great if you could let us know on here if you find something that works to overcome it.
I am also a Vata/Pitta – professionally diagnosed.
@ Mishkam
Sure, I will let everyone know if I find the magic bullet =P
Actually I can't really go about trying any time soon cause I'll be travelling and that will mean restricted food choices including some bloating :(
In my opinion, solving the problem will mean changing the intestinal flora, which will take a long time. I suppose it will involve alleviating the symptoms first by cutting out everything that causes trouble, maybe RRARFing on that diet, and then gradually introducing more fiber. It may also mean one has to make lifestile and more so attitude changes to alleviate stress and accompanying chronic tension. I'm trying to achieve the letter by practicing yoga now (not just stretching excercises, but the full monty.)
Btw, Matt had two posts that dealt with fructose malabsorpion way back. I don't have the time to re-read them now, but I will do that later. Not sure if they are still valid, though.
http://180degreehealth.blogspot.com/2008_09_01_archive.html
http://180degreehealth.blogspot.com/2008/04/fruc-fructose.html
Hans
Thanks for those links, will check them out later today.
@Hans
Kind of a follow up from a while back:
I've heard stomach pain can be caused by low HCL / H. pylori. And H. pylori is very hard to diagnose.
You could get a specialists help but they tend to diagnose you with whatever you think you have, so it might not be worth it lol.
I'm beginning to think low thyroid AND H. pylori in my particular case.
I was just reading Whole health source and everybody is all FODMAPSY over there too. Fructose, lactose and fiber cause digestive problems, this is not a huge discovery. I was saying that stuff a while back without any knowledge of this FODAMPS stuff.
The important questions are:
1. Do we really want to eat nothing but salad and meat forever?
2. If not, what do we do about these intolerance's?
-Bonus question-
3. Maybe question one give us a hint as to why this FODMAPS stuff is popular in the Paleo sphere? =p
I was just reading Whole health source and everybody is all FODMAPSY over there too.
I read this as "everybody is all over the FODMAPS over there."
L
O
L
Urteter nuytre: http://traxsizzrit.freepornhosting.com
@ Greensmu
>>I've heard stomach pain can be caused by low HCL / H. pylori. And H. pylori is very hard to diagnose.
I had an esophagogastroduodenoscopy (what a word! I wikied that… anyway, that's where they shove a tube into your stomach and you get to watch it on a screen, they also take tissue samples) done a decade ago due to constant pain in the stomach. They diagnosed heliobactor pilori. I took antibiotics and had two more examinations done, both didn't find any h.pilori. However, the symptoms remained the same. The pain became temporary instead of constant when I changed my diet to whole foods and stopped drinking.
As to low stomach acidity, I thought that might allow h.pilori to flourish, and I thought it would also fix my problems… however, it didn't. Recently I tried taking HCl once more and one capsule already gave my heartburn. I also don't have problems with my stomach not emptying forever after meals anymore. Those only happen when I eat those evil FODMAPS. Fiber is fine with me to a degree, however.
A couple of things.
RIP Jack LeLane.
Bears. The number one threat to our nation, has a strange and possibly helpful reproductive cycle. Bears give birth in January when they are in the low metabolic state. They have tiny cubs (around a pound). They hybernate till March when the cubs are about 10 pounds, still not that big compared to 500 pound mama bear. What is up with that? Why such little babies? Why the low metabolic state? Why not just keep gestating longer? Perhaps having low birth weight babies allows them to have bigger litters and the low metabolic state allows them to breast feed efficiently. The cubs must not be low metabolic because they grow ten times their size in two months. Possibly helpful info for those of us who had babies when their bodies were in metabolic slow down. It's not the end of the world. Perhaps explains why my kid craves the bear diet of nuts, berries and honey. Still can't get him to catch fish with his bare hands, though.
Jenny: I love your kid, he sounds as funny as you.
and yes, RIP Jack, we will miss you and your crazy stunts. You were a leader and one of my idols.
xo
@Hans
HCL caused weird reactions with me initially. I got lots of acid reflux but not heartburn/indigestion.
I just kept taking it anyway to see what would happen though, and it went away after about a week. Also taking it with large meals prevented reflux, so meal size matters.
HAGamemnon: Yeah, he's hilarious. He would literally eat JP&J for every meal if I'd let him. I'm trying to figure out a way to make PB&J sushi for him.
Of course I say that but he ate Pate Campagna for dinner last night with some home made lacto-fermented veggies.
I triple that sentiment…RIP Jack LaLanne.
I was a little surprised that he didn't crack 100. Art Linkletter made it to 99. So close guys.
The Real Will: there's a reason pneumonia is called the old-people's friend. I think my Grandfather who lived to be 100 had it yearly his entire 90s. Then I know at least one Centarian who's never had it.
Jenny, you know the reason is not because they get it a lot, but because it used to kill them fairly quickly and peacefully (at least before antibiotics and aggressive treatment.)
Anyone out there heard of The Manorama Formula by Dr Legha? Looks very much in line with Matt's recommendations. Here's a quote:
"Reducing diets dictate non-preferred foods in non-preferred quantities at non-preferred times. They destabilize the appetite and blunt its finer tuning. So the body's needs are not met and the appetite circle is kept open"
"The cost of a starvation diet is exhaustion, depression and mental clouding while the diet is in progress, anxiety, loss of control and feelings of helplessness during the phase of weight regain, and feelings of failure and hopelessness when it has been regained."
@ Greensmu
How long did it take for the HCl to work? What did it do for you?
I might give it another try, but I'm not confident because my prior experience wasn't promising. It seemed to do nothing for me re tolerating foods better.
One week into avoiding fructose and whole grains and my belly is flat. No more farting, no more bloating. My poop is anything but perfect, but still… I have the same weight but look 5kg lighter and my pants fit better. HCl didn't do that for me.
Jenny-
Interesting thoughts on bears. Their whole existence is one of feast and famine and they need a feast or famine metabolism. Wouldn't want to give birth when your metabolism is high and pump out a bear that didn't feel that weight gain was necessary. You want a fat storage machine. Interestingly, low birth weight has a very tight correlation with developing obesity later in life.
Matt, you've totally cracked the bear mystery! Bears have the lowest birthweight per size of the mother of any mammal and as you say, they need to be fat storage machines because of their lifestyle. I wonder if they have undergone adaptational changes since a lot of them have access to garbage dumps, the animal world equivalent of a casino buffet? Do they eat the food and let their metabolism adjust or does the chronic stress of a changed environment kill them, like it does humans in the same boat? Questions I will have for the no doubt baffled zoo keepers at the Bear center next time I go there.
@Hans
Took about a week for loose stools and acne to improve. Fruit was tolerated fine before (in terms of gas) just with lots of acne and looser/lighter colored stools.
I don't think HCL got rid of any intolerance's just to be clear, but it did prevent malabsorption of carbs and things that I associate with it, like light colored stools and bad acne. I'd say color is the best indicator of how much HCL one needs.
Taking it 30 minutes after a meal is supposed to be the best time to take it too.
When did you take yours in the past?
My guess would be taking HCL with lots of high fiber foods wouldn't have as pronounced an effect on digestion as taking HCL for malabsorption of carbohydrates specifically.
I took it with the meal. Maybe that was too early?
Your original problem was with fruit? Did you ever try an elimination diet to see if that was really the cause? For me everything improves when I eat a fructose and dairy "free" and moderate fiber diet.
I don't really see how HCl would be the decisive factor, I mean fiber isn't digested by HCl (If I'm not mistaken), and fruit doesn't need a lot of HCl at all to be digested. Food like beef which needs a lot doesn't give me problems on the other hand.
>My guess would be taking HCL with lots of high fiber foods wouldn't have as pronounced an effect on digestion as taking HCL for malabsorption of carbohydrates specifically.
I don't really understand that, can you elaborate?
@Hans
"I took it with the meal. Maybe that was too early?"
Yes, amylase enzymes from the saliva will be neutralized by HCL stopping carbohydrate digestion.
"Did you ever try an elimination diet to see if that was really the cause?"
Yes, I did low-carb for a year with no sugar or fruit. I can also get the symptoms by adding and removing fruit to my diet as acne comes and goes fairly quickly.
"fiber isn't digested by HCl"
Yes, so my guess is carbohydrate malabsorption is the key issue for me that is resolved by HCL.
How does HCL help? I think the mixture of food leaving the stomach has to be somewhat acidic for the pancreas to be stimulated to neutralize it.
It's just a guess but maybe that also stimulates pancreatic enzyme production/release, which includes enzymes that digest carbohydrate.
@ Greensmu
Thanks, that makes a lot of sense. I wonder why they don't mention that on the bottle… or in their online store… I'm giving it another shot now and eating it after my meal in which I include some sugary sweets just to see if it will help.
Do you still have to take the HCl? With every meal?
@Hans
I only take it after a meal with fruit/sugar/fructose.
If anything it makes me constipated when I take it with fruit as opposed to the loose stools I had previously.
You should still be careful about that stomach pain though. My guess is that it would go away after a week or two, but depending on severity that might be too long to wait and see.
I'm not trying to make HCL a cure all or anything.
@ Greensmu
It seems to be helping somewhat with digestion in general. Maybe it helps with fat digestion actually. Seems like I still have to keep sugar / fructose / fruit very low though. It doesn't make me bloated now, but stools are still bad and I feel like shit if I eat more than a little. The pain is actually greatly reduced now that I take the HCl 30min after meals. I'll keep testing it…
> I'm not trying to make HCL a cure all or anything.
Sure, I'm just desparate, I'll try anything that makes sense. I mean I tried rotten meat and all.
I found it interesting.
Perhaps it explains this.
Three of my children were diagnosed with Hashimoto's when they were 9. I was diagnosed right before I turned 20. My mother was diagnosed in her early thirties. My grandmother was diagnosed in her early forties. My great-grandmother was diagnosed in her late forties. There are also cousins, and aunts and uncles who have this as well. Mainly though women. My three children I am referring to are triplets, 2 girls, 1 boy.
Interesting video.
Matt,
RRARF seems to help people raise their metabolism and improve their health. But what do you think about what Ryan Koch mentioned on his blog about the grandfather's access to food and the longevity of his offspring? He quoted the Univeristy of Utah website about epigenetics. Here's the quote:
These records showed that food availability between the ages of nine and twelve for the paternal grandfather affected the lifespan of his grandchildren. But not in the way you might think.
Shortage of food for the grandfather was associated with extended lifespan of his grandchildren. Food abundance, on the other hand, was associated with a greatly shortened lifespan of the grandchildren. Early death was the result of either diabetes or heart disease. Could it be that during this critical period of development for the grandfather, epigenetic mechanisms are "capturing" nutritional information about the environment to pass on to the next generation?
Here's the link to the website:
http://learn.genetics.utah.edu/content/epigenetics/nutrition/