That’s right, everybody could use a little bit of TLC ? Thomas Latimore Cleave (also known as T.L. Cleave or even ?Peter? Cleave).
T.L. Cleave is basically some British guy who had some good ideas. The first is Cleave’s Law of Adaptation. Cleave felt that the human body had adapted to certain things, and that when technology outpaced our ability to adapt, disease developed. Although this may sound a little confusing, it’s actually quite simple ? modern practices and stuff is killing us, not stuff that we’ve been doing and consuming for millennia.
It’s appropriately in line with Weston A. Price’s ?mother nature obeyed,? perhaps the greatest concept that anyone can grasp as it pertains to human health.
Cleave was unique in that he had the audacity to come out and say that refined carbohydrates ? specifically the refining process itself, was the primary contributor to most diseases that were once rare, but now prevalent ? from tooth decay and varicose veins to constipation, heart disease, obesity, and diabetes.
Like many researchers during the ?hola comida moderna! era, Cleave noted that once new, modern, processed foods arrived on the scene, disease showed up shortly thereafter. Like all researchers, he had his theories as to what exactly caused the catastrophic consequences ? his was primarily lack of fiber and vitamins and refined carbohydrates? ability to cause a ?perversion of the appetite. Partially accurate I’m sure, but needs some further explaining, but as Cleave noted, you don’t have to know every minute detail and mechanism to note the causal relationship between modern foods and disease. Amen Papa Peter. He states:
??medical minds throughout the world these days are so preoccupied with detail that they have lost the art of repeatedly standing back in order to gain perspective and think more simply, in terms of fundamentals. Conclusions reached in this way, and which would be strongly indicated by common sense, are discounted because they cannot be proved to the last particular, and ultimately become lost from view.
Yes, leave it to Cleaver, refined foods? role in the causation of most forms of illness is ‘strongly indicated by common sense. Of the refined foods, Cleave felt that refined sugar was the greatest threat, followed by white flour, then other refined grains, and vegetable fats ? which he emphatically mocked.
What sparked my interest in Cleave was his remark, as he testified before George McGovern’s 1973 Senate Select committee on nutrition and human health, as noted by Gary Tabues in his 2007 health odyssey, Good Calories, Bad Calories:
I don’t hold the cholesterol view for a moment?For a modern disease to be related to an old-fashioned food is one of the most ludicrous things I have ever heard in my life?If anybody tells me that eating fat was the cause of coronary disease, I should look at them in amazement. But when it comes to the dreadful sweet things that are served up? that is a very different proposition.
Cleave’s basic conclusion?
Eat as many carbohydrates or as few as you like, but make sure that they are in their natural, whole state. Eat as much or as little fat as you like, but make sure it comes from natural, traditional saturated fats ? not newfangled vegetable oils and margarines. Eat a lot of meat, or a little. Whatever suits you.
This is overly simplistic, and certainly doesn’t troubleshoot all of the health problems one might encounter as a consequence of generations of refined-food consumption, pollutants, and borderline malnutrition ? but it’s one hell of a good start.
He certainly didn’t buy the Paleo stance ? where devotees believe carbohydrates to be inherently sinister when consumed in great quantities. He couldn’t back that with his own observation of the Zulu tribe, who consumed 90% of their dietary calories in the form of carbohydrates without, for practical purposes, any health problems. Just like McCarrison, Price, Burkitt, Prior, Hrdlicka, Stefansson, and others witnessed first hand ? only people consuming refined foods, always refined carbohydrates and often vegetable oils as well along with them, showed significant signs of degeneration and disease compared to what can be considered normal and natural.
In conclusion, here are some of Cleave’s finest quotes as taken from two of his best works, The Saccharine Disease (1974) and Diabetes, Coronary Thrombosis, and the Saccharine Disease (1969). By the way, the ‘saccharine disease,? as explained by Cleave, is a constellation of health problems stemming from the same root cause ? from appendicitis and constipation to tooth decay and heart disease (can you say metabolic syndrome plus?)?
Cleave, T. L., The Saccharine Disease. Keats Publishing: New Canaan, CT, 1974.
p.25 ?’thyrotoxicosis appears to be a very possible saccharine manifestation.
p. 61, describing native stools?
?These are passed twice a day and are extended like a ribbon of toothpaste some 15in. long, and of the diameter of the middle finger.
p.62 ??if there is no unnatural stasis present, the consistency will always be soft and the diameter not appreciably greater than that of the middle finger.
p.70 ?To summarize, those who eat unrefined carbohydrates are candidates for salvation over periodontal disease; those who eat refined carbohydrates never are.
p. 90 ?’table sugar?is always the most serious in the production of disease.
p. 104 ??no one who has any reverence for the human body will ever choose to substitute these new processed oils for animal fats of ancient lineage.
p. 116 ?If we are adapted to anything in this world, we are certainly adapted to stress.
p. 117 ?’the countering of excess consumption, arising from the eating of refined carbohydrates by the taking of unwanted exercise is considered a perfect example of two wrongs not making a right, even though the extra exercise is well known to reduce the consequences of such overconsumption.
p. 189 ?The saccharine disease includes dental decay and pyorrhea; gastric and duodenal ulcer and other forms of indigestion; obesity, diabetes, and coronary disease; constipation, with its complications of varicose veins and hemorrhoids; and primary Escherichia coli infections, like appendicitis, cholecystitis (with or without gall-stones), and primary infections of the urinary tract. The same applies to certain skin condition. Not one of these diseases is for practical purposes ever seen in races who do not consume refined carbohydrates.
Cleave, T.L. and G.D. Campbell. Diabetes, Coronary Thrombosis, and the Saccharine Disease. John Wright & Sons LTD.: Bristol, UK, 1969.
p. v ??medical minds throughout the world these days are so preoccupied with detail that they have lost the art of repeatedly standing back in order to gain perspective and think more simply, in terms of fundamentals. Conclusions reached in this way, and which would be strongly indicated by common sense, are discounted because they cannot be proved to the last particular, and ultimately become lost from view.
p. 10 ?’there is no doubt, from an evolutionary point of view, that, in any disease in man due to alterations in his food from the natural state, the refined carbohydrates, both on account of the magnitude and the recentness of the alterations, are always the foods most likely to be at fault; and not the fats.
p. 15 ??carbohydrates should not be taken as a single group but as two very different groups; one being natural, unconcentrated carbohydrates, such as unrefined grains, potatoes, and fruits, and the other being unnatural, concentrated carbohydrates, notably refined flour and sugar.
p. 19 ??what matters in the production of caries is not the quantity of carbohydrates consumed, but the form in which they are consumed ? to be more accurate, whether they have been refined or not. A whole cartload of carbohydrates in the form of raw apples or sugar-beet, for example, would do the teeth nothing but good, whereas a few cases of refined, sweet biscuits, leaving a sticky residue around the teeth, could initiate the fermentative processes responsible for decay and therefore do the teeth great harm.
pp. 60-61 ?A glance at any wild creature in its natural environment shows that no matter how plentiful its food supply, it never eats too much of it. Even a poulterer’s shop reveals that no wild rabbit ever ate too much grass, no wood-pigeon ever ate too much wheat, and no herring ever ate too much plankton. No wild creature, in fact, is ever overweight. The forces of evolution have ensured that in nature organisms react to an abundant food supply never by developing a disease, such as obesity, but by raising the rate at which they propagate themselves.
p. 65 ?In that table it was shown that although 90 per cent of the calorific intake in the rural Zulu is provided by carbohydrates (which are generally regarded as the fattening foods), as against only 81 per cent of the intake in the urban Zulu, the crucial point is that, in the case of the rural Zulu, of the 90 per cent figure 89 is derived from unrefined carbohydrates, whereas, in the case of the urban Zulu, of the 81 per cent figure 71 is derived from refined carbohydrates. An explanation, therefore, based on the argument advanced in this work, fits the facts as a glove to its hand.
p. 71 ??refined rice when moistened does not become sticky like refined flour, and therefore those races living on milled rice and very little else are singularly free from caries.
p. 145 ?The consumption of refined carbohydrates bears directly upon this sequence, for such consumption can lead to a marked rise in the acidity of the urine.
p. 153 ?The chief problem in the present diet, however, concerns how to avoid eating ordinary sugar, and all the sweet things containing it.
??medical minds throughout the world these days are so preoccupied with detail that they have lost the art of repeatedly standing back in order to gain perspective and think more simply, in terms of fundamentals. Conclusions reached in this way, and which would be strongly indicated by common sense, are discounted because they cannot be proved to the last particular, and ultimately become lost from view.
I love this one. It just had to be repeated.
Word. I’m about to read “The Saccharine Disease”.
A couple of comments. I’m not sure I buy his stickiness argument to explain why white rice isn’t as bad as wheat flour. African tribes ate the stickiest fermented millet/corn/sorghum porridges around and didn’t get much tooth decay.
I think the explanation is that wheat flour is worse than polished rice, regardless of stickiness. I think it’s the gluten but that’s my bias. Price’s theory of minerals plus fat-soluble vitamins makes more sense to me. I’ve found suggestions here and there that wheat interferes with fat-soluble vitamin status.
He mentioned that potatoes are OK. I would tend to agree but I don’t have any specific cultures to point to that eat potatoes and are really healthy. Do you know of any?
Stephen took the words right out of my mouth! I, too, believe uncultured gluten is the real problem. There’s a reason why traditional peoples opted for sourdough bread.
I’d also add that many cultures around the world use white rice (not brown) as a staple and don’t seem to be getting obese and diabetic. I was recently in Korea and witnessed this firsthand. Although, as fructose-laden products (soda, sugar, candy, etc.) become more widely available and eaten, the children in Korea are beginning to show signs of ill health, such as facial deformities, poor teeth, and obesity — still, this is a very small minority.
Cleave oversimplifies his theory by lumping all refined carbs into the same saccharine hypothesis, ignoring the various unique qualities of those carbs. The FRUCTOSE content in sugar and the GLUTEN content in refined wheat flour come to mind. What if white rice is essentially harmless if weight and health are stable as the Asians display? Believe me, I’m all about Occam’s Razor — but lets not forget the uniqueness of each food!
One last tidbit. It’s fascinating that the Zulu lived healthfully on a 90% carb diet. The other 10% is meat, correct? And the question begs to be asked: How healthy were these people on that diet? What was their percentage of tooth decay? Price observed that the cultures with the least amount of animal products were also the least healthy. He said tribes like the agriculturalist Kikuyu had 5% and above tooth decay and were also less robust and courageous than neighboring carnivoristic tribes (who had less than 1% tooth decay, some 0.2% or something like that).
The Saccharine Disease, The Master Disease of our Time
But there are many glutinous grains, and cultures such as the Sihks and Hunzas did not ferment them. They were freshly-ground, which appears to be an even more common theme.
I believe that Peruvians in some areas ate significant quantities of potatoes. Of course Taro really isn’t that different from a potato all things considered.
White rice may not be harmful per se, but it is non-nutritive. It is not an ideal food but probably shouldn’t be classed in the same department as white flour and white sugar. Personally, I think the pulverizatioin of the grain into a powder is probably what makes white flour so much more harmful than white rice. At least white rice is still intact, not rancid, and digests as it would normally, minus some fiber and a few vities and minerals.
I’ve said it before, and I’ll say it again. I do not believe gluten to be inherently harmful. I do believe, due to interupted methylation cycles and other significant findings of those studying autism for example, that improperly-digested gluten is highly pathological. Just as meat would be pathological if you didn’t produce stomach acid. It’s not the food’s fault, it’s the person’s fault. Their bodies are too screwed up to digest it properly, but you can’t blame the gluten for that. I could eat gluten all day if I wanted without ill effects. Same goes for casein, lactose, and common food allergens.
I find it ironic that as much as we want to denigrate WAPF, things always seem to come back to unrefined carbohydrates and animal fats.
One can quibble about the details or even the various explanations about why these two are critical, but there is no denying their importance.
Nicely put, Ben! I have a geat deal of respect for Price’s research and I always seem to return to it when seeking root causes.
Matt: I really like your perspective on health, as you get to the core of the issue rather than blaming this or that, such as gluten. From what I’ve read about gluten (and experienced myself), I think the stuff is pretty harsh. But maybe I have inherent digestive difficulties that exacerbates things a lot. And, of course, I’m certainly not even near the level health attained by primitive populations.
Perhaps the issue with gluten is the over-use of the stuff in processed foods and high-gluten breads leading to our mass-consumption of it. Like any protein that we eat a lot of and don’t assimilate well due to poor digestion (another disease of civilization), gluten has the potential to become problematic. I think it takes the limelight so often because, as I said, it’s such a prominent food in the industrial diet.
I don’t doubt that some cultures, such as the Hunza, ate uncultured, roughly ground grains as part of their diet. It would be hard to say whether this practice helped them or hurt them, however. Maybe they would have fared better on sourdough bread. As an aside, I don’t believe the Hunza people reached the ages and attained the superhuman health that many authors and researchers claim they did:
One unaddressed question is that of fructose (which is half of the sugars in sucrose) being the worst of the worst refined foods. Maybe, if we isolated the effects of this one food, we would find the true culprit in much of our modern health and disease, as well as gain more insight into ancient populations that had poor health –such as the honey-eating Egyptian pharoahs and the Greeks, both of which had cases of diabetes even while eating “whole foods.” In fact, the Greeks called this condition “honey in the blood.”
Rather than lumping ALL refined foods together, as Cleave has done, we should really evaluate the damaging effects of each food one by one.
Stephan: “I think the explanation is that wheat flour is worse than polished rice, regardless of stickiness. I think it’s the gluten but that’s my bias. Price’s theory of minerals plus fat-soluble vitamins makes more sense to me. I’ve found suggestions here and there that wheat interferes with fat-soluble vitamin status.”
What variety of wheat? Fresh whole wheat berries or rancid and/or refined flours? They are two different foods. Maybe what interferes with the fat soluble vitamins is eating ground up grains that are very prone to rancidity unless fresh.
The pharaohs ate grains, not just honey. So did the Greeks. Why blame problems on honey if they ate grains? Maybe they did other things, like heating and straining the honey, which removes nutrients. It’s not clear that honey had any thing to do with their problems, if they were eating lots of other foods with it, processing, or otherwise adulterating it. Maybe what caused the problem was the mix of fodos.
Starches and sugars are a dangerous mix, IMO. You need to isolate your variables.
“RAW HONEY… Studies made by P E. Weesen of the Frauenfelder Sanitarium of
Europe showed that patients given raw honey exceeded all others both in strength and healthy appearance… Dr. Schacht of Wiesbaden claimed to have cured many supposedly hopeless cases of
gastric and intestinal ulcers with raw honey, and the celebrated Father Sebastian Kneipp remarked that “smaller ulcers in the stomach are quickly contracted, broken and healed by it.” Surprisingly, raw honey has even been given to treat diabetes. Dr. A. Y. Davidov of Russia noted that it tended to prevent acetonemia, and in spite of its high sugar content, its use was
associated with the actual reduction of sugar in the urine. The American physicians, Dr. L. R. Emerick of Eaton, Ohio, and the late Dr. R. J. Goss of Middlebury, Vermont, have treated hundreds of diabetic patients with raw honey, achieving remarkable success and vast improvement in the weight, strength, and appearance of many patients.”
So much for the idea that honey was the problem to blame for the Egyptians and reeks. I vote for grains which are high in PUFAs and fiber, two things we don’t need. Honey has neither and is a better source of calories than starches IMO. I am waiting to see evidence that grains were used to cure diabetes and/or other problems, like unheated honey.
The Hunzas ate a modest amount of wheat, and usually sprouted it I believe. Wheat was only one of several grains they ate.
I agree with what you said about white rice being basically harmless but non-nutritive. It’s not an ideal food because it’s so nutrient-poor, but it seems to be a decent source of calories if your micronutrients are coming from elsewhere.
Here’s why I think the pulverization is not the issue with white flour: traditional cultures pulverized their grains, and starchy root vegetables are basically pulverized by the time you’re done chewing them. Throughout Africa, traditional cultures soak, grind, ferment and cook grains into porridges and breads. These foods are thoroughly pulverized an homogeneous by the time they’re eaten. They digest every bit as quickly as white flour bread, and more rapidly than some wheat products like pasta.
I’m open to the idea that turning wheat into industrial white flour does something special to it that makes it unhealthy, but it’s just not the most parsimonious explanation in my opinion. I think a more likely explanation is that wheat is just inherently toxic to many people, as a number of plant foods are.
Speaking of the ancient Egyptians, they were eating sourdough fermented whole grain (presumably coarsely ground) wheat, and their health was pretty poor.
I would like to try some raw honey, and you seem to know quite a bit about it.
Are there any brands you recommend, or, if not, brands at least qualities to look for when buying raw honey?
DML, here are some suppliers I think are good – Really Raw Honey (pricey), Honey Pacifica (a bit cheaper), and eBeeHoney. The key word is unheated. Many say “raw” and they are heated to like 150-160F and strained to remove impurities along with vitamins and minerals. Raw does not mean much sometimes. The least processsed is comb honey, but it’s labor intensive and usually expensive (at least $8 a pound). But some tolerate it better, because it is less tampered with by man.
Bruce: “So much for the idea that honey was the problem to blame for the Egyptians and Greeks. I vote for grains which are high in PUFAs and fiber, two things we don’t need.”
The evidence that you point to in order to validate your argument — although interesting — is in no way conclusive or convincing. Were the variables in the studies on raw honey isolated, double-blind, in a metabolic ward setting, etc. It seems that you’re fishing for bits and pieces, many of which are anecdotal, to make your case for raw honey.
Dr. Bass — your source for much of the evidence you present — may have healed patients with veggie juices and raw honey, but who’s to say whether or not those patients would have recovered faster and with better results on a butter oil/cod liver oil regimen, ala Price?
Whole grains have insubstantial amounts of PUFAs. And they have minimal fiber when eaten as many traditional cultures processed them, as Stephan explained.
Likewise, Cleave, like Burkitt, found these African tribes eating tons of grain, legumes, and fruits – and no diabetes. They were not eating massive quantities of honey. If grains somehow cause diabetes, the African tribes on their 90% carb diet would have had diabetes, but they did not. None. And no digestive ailments despite eating up to 100 grams of fiber per day.
That doesn’t mean honey is good or bad. I do believe that it may have the head-on approach healing potential just as Vonderplanitz and a small handful of others state. It shouldn’t be categorized with refined sugars.
And of course there are multiple ways to achieve healing. Whether eating a no-sugar diet or a super high-honey diet, both can yield excellent health benefits.
Terry Shintani, author of The Good Carbohydrate Revolution, is a practicing doctor apparently having some success with treating diabetes and other related disorders. He is all about grains, fiber, starches, etc. but is super anti-sweets (simple sugars). I do believe his success is a result of his nearly-vegan diet though, and the benefits seen have more to do with weight loss than with the actual grains themselves.
The causation of disease always comes back to whole foods. Animal fats will always be preferable to plant fats. But Cleave observed the Zulus eating a diet with less than 5% of calories coming from fat with superb health. They might not have been as healthy as the Maori or anything, but they still had excellent resistance to disease, period. We’re just suggesting blind spots, not in Price’s observations, but in his interpretation (that it’s all about fat soluble vitamins).
Melvin Page, in my opinion, was much sharper and more advanced as a practicing dentist than Price. He had little to say about fat-soluble vitamins, but merely said, “don’t eat sugar and white flour.” That alone was a curative for most. The rest needed a little glandular support to get back to a state of physical harmony – preventing tooth decay and health problems in general.
Page and Cleave seem to suggest a simpler theory – one that I would agree with more readily, that refined carbohydrates are the primary cause of disease, regardless of why that may be.
Check out comment #7 in this NY Times piece on Michael Pollan:
“Likewise, Cleave, like Burkitt, found these African tribes eating tons of grain, legumes, and fruits – and no diabetes. They were not eating massive quantities of honey. If grains somehow cause diabetes, the African tribes on their 90% carb diet would have had diabetes, but they did not. None. And no digestive ailments despite eating up to 100 grams of fiber per day.”
I didn’t claim grains caused diabetes. I claimed unheated honey has been known to cure it, by adding it to someone’s diet, not changing anything else. Who has been cured of diabetes, just by adding cooked starches to their diet? Aajonus believes unheated honey replaces insulin, so that type 1 diabetics can heal. I don’t know if he’s right, but some old-time doctors and healers seem to agree, in that they used it to treat diabetics and found it had different effects than processed and refined sugars would have.
“I could eat gluten all day if I wanted without ill effects. Same goes for casein, lactose, and common food allergens.”
So could I, but why would you? You might be able to eat natural peanut butter and have no reaction, but that doesn’t prove it’s a healthy or desirable food. I mean which would you eat if you had a choice: peanut butter or foie gras, wheat gluten or rice, corn on the cob or potatoes?
“Animal fats will always be preferable to plant fats.”
If they are equally saturated and low in PUFAs, perhaps. I don’t think lard is as good as beef tallow, if you’re eating it in large amounts. Also coconut oil has a proven ability to help various problems and protect against toxins. I think most tropical oils are good in our warm body, but other plant fats become increasingly risky, like avocados, olives, nuts, and seeds. Look at your experience with pork belly and poultry on the xero-carb diet. You can’t say all animal fats are equal, or that they’re always better than plant fats. The Kitavans seem to do just fien eating coconut as like 93% of their fat, and fish as the other 7%.
Yes, I find comment #7 to be beyond profound.
Matt: “…Cleave observed the Zulus eating a diet with less than 5% of calories coming from fat with superb health. They might not have been as healthy as the Maori or anything, but they still had excellent resistance to disease, period.”
But many of these “healthy” tribes were decimated by infectious diseases brought by outsiders, as DML has pointed out. I think it’s debatable that their diet was “perfectly healthy” as some claim. I am interested in finding a diet that offers immunity to infectious diseases, modern pollution, and pathogens. That seems to be the high-SFA, high-MUFA, and low-PUFA diet, with both omega-6 and omega-3 fat kept as low as possible.
Omega-3 fats is immune suppressive. That might explain why these “healthy” tribes were wiped out by diseases, which others weren’t wiped out by. They give omega-3s to transplant patients to prevent organ rejection. So, I limit omega-3 severely, as well as omega-6. I don’t eat any high fat seafood, flax oil, etc. I find those things cause depression (contrary to the belief that they cure it) and they lower my immunity. For example, when I started taking flax oil on the Primal Diet I got a sore throat that lasted about a month. This was before I knew about Ray Peat or the dangers of PUFAs, otherwise I would not have touched flax oil. Anyway, I got rid of the sore throat immediately after I stopped taking flax oil. Others I have talked to shared a similar experience.
I think it’s better to drop omega-6 fats than add omega-3. Removing variables can tell you more than adding them. When you are not eating a lot of omega-6, you see the harm of omega-3, like causing immune suppression, uncontrolled bleeding, and hemorrhaging. The Eskimos often died of minor injuries due to blood loss. Their blood would not clot. This would be very bad, say, if you were in a car accident, gun shot, stabbing, or other injury. My blood clots almost instantly with a low PUFA diet. Cuts heal with no itching or inflammation or scarring. They have a soft scab, rather than a hard scab like someone eating omega-6 fats.
I wouldn’t eat more than 4g of omega-3 a day, like the people in Kitava. Not that you need that much, but it seems like a safe upper limit. Also I would not take that much all at once. I would break it up into 3-4 meals preferably and eat it with plenty of saturated fat.
I agree with much of that. Of course you won’t see me eating a 90% carb diet, except maybe in the very short term. I wouldn’t call it superior by any means. My immune system is very strong with a saturated-fat based diet with significant amounts of cream, butter, coconut oil, and animal fat (tallow, lard, chicken fat).
I’ll keep paying attention to the omega 3 thing. I eat very little fish these days, certainly don’t take any omega 3 supplements – probably getting just a little in pastured eggs and beef.
“Yes, I find comment #7 to be beyond profound.
That made me laugh
Matt: “Of course you won’t see me eating a 90% carb diet, except maybe in the very short term. I wouldn’t call it superior by any means.”
60-80% carbs could be a superior diet if the right foods were eaten. I doubt that grains or beans would be ideal. Potatoes and fruits and root vegetables and honey and milk and maple syrup, maybe. I think that ideal health means being able to do well on many macro-nutrient ratios. From no-carbs to ultra-low-fat (1-5%).
“My immune system is very strong with a saturated-fat based diet with significant amounts of cream, butter, coconut oil, and animal fat (tallow, lard, chicken fat).”
But what if some super-bug comes along? Those primitive tribes probably thought they had a strong immune system – until smallpox or something wiped them out. I want to be immune to any thing. Want to inject yourself with ebola or small pox or bubonic plague and see what happens? Want to inject yourself with blood from someone with multiple STDs and see what happens? I want to be ready for such an eventuality. Worst case scenario.
“I’ll keep paying attention to the omega 3 thing. I eat very little fish these days, certainly don’t take any omega 3 supplements – probably getting just a little in pastured eggs and beef.”
I eat lean fish and shellfish, based on Ray Peat’s essays, and because I prefer them. Scallops, lobster, crab, pollock, shrimp, cod, and haddock taste better I think than salmon, sardines, etc. Plus, the fatty fish cause me depression even though they are said to treat that. My thinking is that they only cover up the problems of eating SAD and are probably harmful to someone like you or me who’s not eating much refined sugars, flours, PUFA oils, or trans fats.
DML, here are some suppliers I think are good – Really Raw Honey (pricey), Honey Pacifica (a bit cheaper), and eBeeHoney. The key word is unheated. Many say “raw” and they are heated to like 150-160F and strained to remove impurities along with vitamins and minerals. Raw does not mean much sometimes. The least processsed is comb honey, but it’s labor intensive and usually expensive (at least $8 a pound). But some tolerate it better, because it is less tampered with by man.
Here is another
The jar I have says unheated and unfiltered
Apitherapy Raw Honey
Ryan: “The evidence that you point to in order to validate your argument — although interesting — is in no way conclusive or convincing.”
Weston Price’s theory is not conclusive, either. Why accept him and not guys like Melvin Page, T L Cleave, McCarrison, and others who blame refined carbs? The WAPF has basically distilled Price’s work to a very simple-minded message. “Eat as much fat-soluble vitamins and fermented foods and raw foods as you can.” That’s not the only way to heal. Many would do better with other methods or maybe they don’t want to follow the WAPF religion, led by the high priestess Sally Fallon.
“Were the variables in the studies on raw honey isolated, double-blind, in a metabolic ward setting, etc. It seems that you’re fishing for bits and pieces, many of which are anecdotal, to make your case for raw honey.”
But you’re ignoring evidence, just like the WAPF ignores evidence. I brought up the fact that Dr. Charles Sanford Porter and Bernarr Macfadden used skim milk on the milk diet. It was on a forum filled with WAPF devotees. Several people said I was wrong. They said they had read Dr. Porter’s book and couldn’t remember him saying he used skim milk. Then I gave a few quotes and a link to his book, that showed he favored skim milk. Then there was a lot of rationalizations like they could do without fat-soluble vitamins a while because the body has reserves. So if the body has reserves, why do we need to eat mega-doses of tem? THe important question should be what foods deplete us of vitamins, not how we can eat as much vitamins as possible by following a very rigid and extreme type of diet.
“Dr. Bass — your source for much of the evidence you present — may have healed patients with veggie juices and raw honey, but who’s to say whether or not those patients would have recovered faster and with better results on a butter oil/cod liver oil regimen, ala Price?”
Whether they healed faster or slower is not particularly important. They healed fast enough to be noticed. I don’t like cod liver oil or similar oils, and many other people don’t like them, could not afford them, or aren’t aware of them. I could just as easily ask you where’s the proof that butter oil and cod liver oil would heal them faster.
“Whole grains have insubstantial amounts of PUFAs. And they have minimal fiber when eaten as many traditional cultures processed them, as Stephan explained.”
They have more PUFAs than white potatoes and white rice (2-6% by calories, versus 0.4% by calories). PUFAs are toxic, even in small amounts – especially when mixed with saturated fats. Adding 3% sunflower oil to a diet with beef tallow will give vastly higher cancer rates. Beef tallow by itself won’t do that. So I think it’s better to potatoes and white rice for a starch than corn or oats (5-6% PUFAs by calories and 40-60% by fat). Brown rice and wheat are on the low end of PUFAs at about 2-2.5%, but why eat that much when there are clear risks at 3%? Unless you eat a low-fat vegetarian diet, it seems like an unwise risk to me…
Stephan: “traditional cultures pulverized their grains, and starchy root vegetables are basically pulverized by the time you’re done chewing them.”
You are misinterpreting Matt’s point and mine. We’re not saying the pulverization is bad itself. It’s bad because the fats and vitamins are subject to oxidation. A person eating those foods immediately or grinding them shortly before eating them would not have any problems. The trouble is when those foods sit on a store shelf for weeks or months, becoming rancid and toxic and deficient. Most plant fats are extremely toxic when rancid. Animal fats don’t usually cause the same problems if rancid, but are still less ideal. Taking out the vitamins and bleaching the flour and enriching it also increases toxicity vastly, converting vitamins into poison, like xanthine (a Vitamin E co-factor) is converted to alloxan by flour bleaching. Alloxan is used experimentally to induce diabetes via beta cell destruction. It’s a potent free radical and toxin.
“Speaking of the ancient Egyptians, they were eating sourdough fermented whole grain (presumably coarsely ground) wheat, and their health was pretty poor.”
What else were they eating? You have to look at diet as a whole. Someone eating butter and honey may have better health than someone eating lard and honey, cod liver oil and honey, or chicken fat and honey. Someone eating nuts and seeds by themselves may have better health than someone mixing them with fruit. I think you once said that the Kung ate nuts by themselves and not with carbs. Raw nuts (hand-shelled) and raw seeds might be a super-food, if eaten alone, as the Bass article suggested. They might be bad if mixed with starches, sugars, and animal foods. You have to look at all diets as a whole. Maybe the reason Peter had his problems with wheat is because the food was rancid and he ate it in the absence of fat soluble vitamins (he described a snack consisting of whole wheat bread, peanut butter, and bananas – hardly the definition of a balanced meal).
HyperLipid – Diabetes and Hunger
Thanks for the clarification on the pulverization issue. If sitting around forever makes them rancid when pulverized – a well-understood truth (cut an apple and see if lasts as long as a whole one), then one can condemn processed food on that very notion. And that obviously is exactly what is needed – scientifically-valid condemnation of refined foods just based on the fact that they have been refined and are not fresh.
By that logic you should be able to remove the husk and chaff from wheat and store it for a long time, like white rice is stored, without degradation prior to grinding it and baking bread. Unless it is the husk that protects the PUFA’s in the germ from rancidity and not simply the fact that the germ hasn’t been crushed.
Crushing makes it turn rancid faster. If you grind up nuts into flour, they would spoil a lot faster than raw nuts kept in the shell. The oxidation and rancid fats also damage other nutrients, making food more toxic and less nutritious. Chemical bleaching and enriching with isolated or synthetic vitamins makes the white flour even more harmful and toxic. Rice is not processed as much, although I would stay away from enriched rice. The non-organic is usu. enriched and some organic too. I get organic white sushi rice, and golden rose brown rice from Lundberg. Both have about 1g of fiber in 1/4 cup dry (around 34-35g of carbs).
Contrary to the claims by Sally Fallon, Stephan, and others, I don’t think Price ever state that fermented (or sprouted) grains were essential. He did point out that fresh grains are important and you should avoid rancid grains and flours. I think he said that flour turns rancid in 3 days. So if you are eating any bread, whole grain or not, ask the producers if they grind it fresh before baking. I am using Berlin Sourdough Spelt, which says it’s fresh-ground and they ferment it 24 hours with a yeast-free starter. Here is another article talking about how highly perishable flours are.
It cites a study from Germany (Bernasek 1970) feeding rats half flour or bread. One group got fresh stone-ground flour, one got bread made from freshly ground flour. Another was fed flour stored for 15 days, and another got bread made of the stored flour. A fifth group was fed white flour. After four generations on these diets, only the groups eating the fresh stone-ground flour and bread were still able to reproduce. The process of making flour accelerates nutrient loss. White flour isn’t much worse than whole wheat flour that has been stored in the warehouse for days, weeks, or months or sitting on the store shelf. Both would cause deficiency and chronic disease if eaten in large amounts.
For some reason, that link does not work with Publications in capital letters. It worked in the past. This link works.
NUTRITIONAL CHARACTERISTICS of ORGANIC, FRESHLY STONE-GROUND, SOURDOUGH & – CONVENTIONAL BREADS
Bruce I’ve seen you recommend against the consumption of raw meat. You’ve said some places that raw meat is not for everyone.
I’m wondering, why are you against it? Do you yourself eat 50% cooked and 50% raw? How do you cook your meat (boil it, fry it)? And when you cook it, do you just sear it a little, or do you cook through?
Is it a bad idea to eat raw meat even if it has helped with my digestion?? I’m really confused now..!
Matt and Bruce,
I see where you’re coming from on the pulverization issue.
Bruce, the reason Price didn’t write about fermentation is he didn’t grasp its importance. In that respect, he’s in the same category as most of the people who have observed diet and health in traditional grain-based cultures. Take the African Dinka for example. Papers on the Dinka diet (and NPD) never mention that they always ferment their grains before making them into porridges and breads, but if you look into it, they do.
Sally Fallon has correctly pointed out that the large majority of the healthy grain-eating cultures Price studied fermented their grains. The same is true for other healthy grain-based cultures he didn’t study. The larger the percentage of calories that come from grains, the more likely the culture is to ferment them. The only way you can get away with not fermenting whole grains is if your diet is otherwise rich in minerals and you don’t rely on them for the majority of your calories. For example, the fishermen on the outer Hebrides ate mineral-rich seafood accompanied by (presumably) unfermented oats.
You can’t dispute the fact that fermentation makes whole grains more nutritious, particularly where minerals are concerned. Unfermented wheat bran effectively contains negative minerals because the massive amount of phytate actually prevents mineral absorption from the rest of your meal. It’s been documented over and over for calcium, phosphorus, magnesium, iron and zinc. Fermentation dramatically increases mineral availability from whole grains, as I’ve written about on my blog.
I agree with much of what you say, but the phytate issue is kind of a mixed bag. I’ve read numerous authorities which indicate that the mineral-binding effects of phytates are mitigated entirely by maintaining sufficient levels of stomach acid. I know Dr. John Wright mentions this; I’ll try to dig out his explanation if you’re interested.
That said, I definitely prefer sprouted/fermented grains myself.
Stephan: “Sally Fallon has correctly pointed out that the large majority of the healthy grain-eating cultures Price studied fermented their grains.”
But if some healthy groups don’t ferment grains (like the Sikhs), then you cannot make a general rule. Also, you can’t say all grains are equal. As you note, wheat and rice are not equal. Ben makes a good point that phytates may be harmless in a person with adequate stomach acid. There are all kinds of mitigating factors that prevent making general rules.
If you’re talking about modern people, I think there’s a lot of justification for diet low in fiber, low in PUFAs (omega-6 and omega-3), low in grains, etc.
“Is it a bad idea to eat raw meat even if it has helped with my digestion?? I’m really confused now..!”
I think there are other ways to heal the problem, unless you are seriously messed up. For example, Aajonus says he doesn’t produce stomach acid because of having a severed vagus nerve. He acts like he’s a representative of all people, but he’s a one in a billion case (if we assume he’s being honest about his numerous problems and not making it up as he goes). That’s why I like this blog, because Matt tries to fix underlying metabolic problems by facing them head-on. He’s not one to run and hide from a problem.
Who’s healthier, someone who says “carbs make me gain weight, so I’ll stop eating carbs forever”, or someone who overcomes their problem to where they can eat 200g of (clean) carbs a day without any gain? To me, the answer is obvious. One person is is hiding from the problem, while the other is facing them head-on.
Stephan: “You can’t dispute the fact that fermentation makes whole grains more nutritious, particularly where minerals are concerned.”
You can’t deny the fact that “freshness” trumps fermentation. Look at the article I cited. After four generations on diets consisting of 50% flour, only rats being fed fresh stone-ground whole wheat flour and bread were fertile. Those fed stored flour were infertile, along with all the animals fed white flour. I suspect Sally Fallon has put the cart before the horse here, as she has in other areas. She has not stressed the importance of freshness in grains, which was a key point made by Price. I don’t believe fermentation will can grains that are rancid. Milled grain and flour are highly perishable, but the whole grains also go rancid, due to high levels of polyunsaturated fats.
“The nutritional importance of using fresh stone-ground grains for bread-making was revealed in the results of feeding studies in Germany (Bernasek, 1970). Rats were fed diets consisting of 50% flour or bread. Group 1 consumed fresh stone-ground flour. Group 2 was fed bread made with this flour. Group 3 consumed the same flour as group 1 but after 15 days of storage. Group 4 was fed bread made with the flour fed to group 3. A fifth group consumed white flour. After four generations, only the rats fed fresh stone-ground flour and those fed the bread made with it maintained their fertility. The rats in groups 3 to 5 had become infertile. Four generations for rats is believed to be equivalent to one hundred years in humans.”
NUTRITIONAL CHARACTERISTICS of ORGANIC, FRESHLY STONE-GROUND, SOURDOUGH & – CONVENTIONAL BREADS
I know I’ve mentioned this before elsewhere, but McCarrison also made no notes about fermentation, only fresh-grinding. He gave fresh-ground wheat to monkeys, pigeons, guinea pigs, and other lab animals with excellent results – including to near total immunity to highly virulent pathogens that killed the other lab animals.
Bruce, I’m not ready for ebola injections yet, but I do regularly expose myself and test my immunity all the time. I’ve come to think of myself of a “germophiliac,” trying to share food with people who have the flu, drink nonpotable water and things like that. There is no doubt that my immune system is at least 90% stronger than it once was.
Also, on the subject of phytates, I was perusing something on the matter yesterday and it was a concern of the researchers – the binding of phytates to those key minerals, but no sign of deficiency manifested in any native tribes or animal subjects. Only those on refined sugar and white flour had signs of low mineral levels, bone loss, etc.
“Also, on the subject of phytates, I was perusing something on the matter yesterday and it was a concern of the researchers – the binding of phytates to those key minerals, but no sign of deficiency manifested in any native tribes or animal subjects. Only those on refined sugar and white flour had signs of low mineral levels, bone loss, etc.”
Rancid whole grain flours would probably have the same effect. If not immediately then over several generations. We should put whole wheat flour in the same class as white flour unless it’s freshly stone ground and eaten in a reasonable amount of time. Price said the Swiss made their bread once a month, I think, so let’s be safe and say you should use fresh ground bread in 1-2 weeks unless you keep it in the freezer. Stale bread will eventually become toxic like rancid flour.
Bruce and Matt,
OK, what did McCarrison say about the Sikhs exactly? Did he note their dental decay rate? Their prevalence of any chronic diseases? Anything quantitative at all that could help us decide whether or not they were healthy?? Saying they looked robust compared to poor people on a white rice diet is hardly enough to base a dietary philosophy on.
I’m willing to be convinced that fresh grinding is an important factor in the health properties of grains. Bruce, I’ll check that link out when I get a chance. But to claim that it trumps fermentation? What are you basing that on? None of the studies you cited compared the two.
It’s very simple. If you take free-living people, switching them from white bread to whole wheat bread reduces their long-term mineral status for several divalent minerals. Bran inhibits mineral absorption regardless of stomach acid in humans.
Fermentation dramatically increases mineral availability. The effect is so straightforward and so well supported by the literature I’m puzzled why you don’t want to accept it. It doesn’t exclude your grinding theory.
The Sikhs probably didn’t get the majority of their calories from chapatis. If all you need is a little calorie boost, you can probably afford to lose a few minerals if your diet is rich enough to begin with. Healthy cultures that are heavily grain-dependent pretty much always ferment their grains because otherwise there are well-recognized long-term consequences from mineral deficiency. Can you give me examples of truly healthy cultures that rely on grains for 50% or more of calories and don’t ferment?
These people don’t go through the 2-3 day process of fermenting grains for nothing. Those labor-intensive processes are used throughout the world because they’re highly effective for improving the nutritional value of grains. Fermentation increases mineral availability, improves amino acid profile, breaks down protease inhibitors, tannins, lectins, and other toxins and anti-nutrients. It’s a slam dunk.
Certain animals have a much easier time getting minerals out of phytate than humans do, especially birds, which could explain McCarrison’s animal experiments. Humans have a more delicate digestive system than most animals.
Stephan: “I’m willing to be convinced that fresh grinding is an important factor in the health properties of grains. Bruce, I’ll check that link out when I get a chance. But to claim that it trumps fermentation? What are you basing that on? None of the studies you cited compared the two.”
They showed a massive difference between fresh ground and stored flours. How much does it take to convince you? Matt and I have better things to do. We can provide some pointers and clues, but in the end, it’s your choice what to believe. If you want to believe the “wheat is poison” or “unfermented grains are toxic” theory, I don’t see why we should try very hard to convince you. McCarrison did studies and Price fed people fresh ground wheat, and neither said anything about fermentation being essential, AFAIK.
“If you take free-living people, switching them from white bread to whole wheat bread reduces their long-term mineral status for several divalent minerals. Bran inhibits mineral absorption regardless of stomach acid in humans.”
But that flour is all rancid. Price said it turns rancid in 3 days or he quoted a farmer who said that. I haven’t read his book in a long time, but somebody on the BeyondPrice list said he quoted a farmer from Peru who said 3 days. Maybe freshly ground whole wheat has highly perishable nutrients that help digest it, rendering the phytates irrelevant. All you can say is that rancid flour + phytates are bad.
“Can you give me examples of truly healthy cultures that rely on grains for 50% or more of calories and don’t ferment?”
Hopefully, we can agree that people who are infertile after several generations (ex: Americans and Europeans eating SAD garbage) are *LESS* healthy than people who maintain fertility. The 1970 German rat study sounds like it fed them diets with 50% raw flour or cooked bread made from the flour. Those getting the fresh ground whole wheat flour / bread stayed fertile and those getting rancid and/or refined flour became infertile.
“Certain animals have a much easier time getting minerals out of phytate than humans do, especially birds, which could explain McCarrison’s animal experiments. Humans have a more delicate digestive system than most animals.”
Maybe humans who weren’t eating and who had never eaten refined sugar and white flour and vegetable oils would not have such a weak digestion. I’m sure Matt is open to that possibility. Why not you?
Matt: “I’m not ready for ebola injections yet, but I do regularly expose myself and test my immunity all the time…trying to share food with people who have the flu, drink nonpotable water and things like that. There is no doubt that my immune system is at least 90% stronger than it once was.”
But you are also avoiding natural foods that might have been a factor in certain tribes being decimated by disease, like grains (esp corn), fatty fish, or other things. Let’s see you eat corn as your main source of carbs, salmon and roe as your main protein, lots of chicken fat, no beef, no butter, no cream, no lamb, no coconut oil, etc. You may have very different experiences. There must be a reason some tribes were devastated by smallpox or other diseases. I say they were not eating perfect, not in broad terms at last. Maybe their diet was OK when they were isolated and not exposed to germs from people eating junk food, and PUFA oils. But what happens if they are exposed to outside germs which have grown much stronger?
Basically, you’re doing things that may protect from bacteria. Take away all of those protective things, like low-fiber and low-PUFA and not mixing many foods, and maybe your results change.
Hi ya Bruce. I know this is off topic from what you guys are discussing but what's your view on Dr. Richard Wrangham's theory that the human brain evolved to be bigger because of cooking of food?
"Hitherto, the explanation for this shift from the smaller skulls and wider pelvises of man’s apelike ancestors has been a shift from a vegetable-based diet to a meat-based one. Meat has more calories than plant matter, the theory went. A smaller gut could therefore support a larger brain.
Dr Wrangham disagrees. When you do the sums, he argues, raw meat is still insufficient to bridge the gap. He points out that even modern ?raw foodists?, members of a town-dwelling, back-to-nature social movement, struggle to maintain their weight?and they have access to animals and plants that have been bred for the table. Pre-agricultural man confined to raw food would have starved."
I wonder if eating only raw without a variety of foods can cause lower IQ (or other deficiency in cognition), just like it has been shown in a study that the short term memory of low carb dieters is worse than that of people on a high carb:
How much would you recommend should be RAW in the diet, if it is a diet that is high fat/low carb? How about a high carb/low fat?
Could a zero carb (carnivore) diet be successful and be 100% raw in your opinion?
I know you read a lot on these topics which is why I want to hear your opinions.
btw here's an interesting article about the evolution of brain/gut size ratio in humans:
Another thought on the above (on raw foods):
Maybe that’s the reason why AV recommends so huge amount of foods, especially dairy products. Without them it is extremely hard to maintain weight on a raw diet – the weight that AV suggest at least (slightly overweight, so the body has where to store toxins instead of storing them inside organs/tissue).
I’m also very interested in the whole raw food and fitness deal, but there just doesn’t seem to be raw paleo dieters who have an impressive physique or are very good at a sport. Most are very thin. The only ones who have more mass seem to be the primal dieters (who include diary), like this body builder:
(Look at his diet/pictures. It’s he best raw foodist physique I have seen, although he seems to have some shoulder/back injuries from exercise, and is for some reason depressed and very self-absorbed, and he changes his raw diet often)
This guy, Paul Lundkvist, the primal diet body builder, also rotates his diet between high fat/low carb and high carb/low fat for some reason. This is from his blog:
“The low carb approach actually isn’t any better than the low fat approach in my opinion-the problem is the both at the same time approach or the niether approach. As I mentioned in the last blog, Dr. Doug Graham has been very outspoken about his high carb, low fat, low protein approach and while I’m not there in my understanding, what I have come to understand is that those two are a poor combination. High fat diets combined with even moderate carb intake is the perfect equation for insulin resistance, which isn’t so much insulin resistance as it is insulin failure in that the insulin is not capable of eschewing the sugar out of the blood stream and into the cells because they are coated in oil-the insulin itself is insulated with oil. This seems to be why so many people do better on very low or no carb/high fat diets. This is also seems to be why people do well on regular carb, no fat diets-though not as well because ?regular carb? for most people is still too high and too refined. Competitive bodybuilders in the 80s were all about the no fat diets, and they of course worked assuming they used all the energy from the sugar they consumed. People who live in the tropics, plent of carbs, very low fat. It all works! It’s our desire to have it all at the same time that doesn’t work.
On very high carb, via fruits and vegetables and no fat, I was almost just fine and I have candida. That says something. I had some very slight symptoms but nothing crazy like what would have been the case had I eaten that much fruit while eating high fat at the same time. Eating too much fruit at one sitting was a bit of a problem but if I split up the same amount of fruit into a couple of meals I was pretty much fine. So now the plan is to see if I can cycle the two approaches-high carb, no fat, low protein and no carb, high fat, high protein. I might have to include a half day or a day of fasting in between the two, but that’s no bigge. The only question I have left is if bodyfat has the same effect on insulin and cellular uptake of sugar. If so, it makes sense then that a certain level of leaness is required to really make Dr. Graham’s approach a true winner. I think I’ll order his book-the 80/10/10 diet.”
Is it true that high fat and even moderate carb causes insulin resistance or is he just talking junk science?
Anyway I don’t really get the benefits of doing this cycling of macro nutrients (which Matt is obviously also doing?) Why not get the body used to one type of macro nutrients and then just IF (Intermittently fast) once in a while, instead of throwing the body completely off in cycles. I just don’t see the benefits. Could anyone explain?
“Hi ya Bruce. I know this is off topic from what you guys are discussing but what’s your view on Dr. Richard Wrangham’s theory that the human brain evolved to be bigger because of cooking of food?”
It’s possible. One thing he might not be considering is that primitive people did not chew their food much. Stefansson has said the Eskimos hardly chewed on meats, whether raw or cooked. Aajonus has said he can eat 2-3 pounds of raw meat easily if he doesn’t chew it. If he chews much, he’s lucky to get down half a pound. (He gets repulsed by it.) The Bear also said he didn’t chew his meat much.
“I wonder if eating only raw without a variety of foods can cause lower IQ (or other deficiency in cognition), just like it has been shown in a study that the short term memory of low carb dieters is worse than that of people on a high carb”
This might be a short-term effect. They were looking at people after one week on diets with “severely restricted” carbs. Then again, low-carbers are known to do silly things sometimes. I recently heard that Barry Groves joined the “Raw Paleo Diet” group on Yahoo and later told the group he didn’t know the emphasis was on raw food! He thought it was just talking about paleo diet. If that’s not impaired cognition, I don’t know what is. When I ate very low-carb, my mental performance declined. I felt like I was in a stupor or on sedatives a lot of the time. But I was eating a lot of PUFAs, salads, nuts, fiber, and things like that.
“How much would you recommend should be RAW in the diet, if it is a diet that is high fat/low carb? How about a high carb/low fat?”
“Could a zero carb (carnivore) diet be successful and be 100% raw in your opinion?”
You have to see what works and what you can live with. I think zero-carb easily results in under-eating and a resulting suppression of metabolism / thyroid. If you focus on weight as the only measure of health, like Charles Washington, you can get into trouble. He has complained of being cold a lot, but he thinks it’s more important to have 6% body fat, and fit into the smallest jeans at the Gap. He’s shallow and narcissistic, and that would be an understatement.
I think it has to do with the way meat has been aged.
I usually chew my meat very well and can eat up to 2 pounds in one sitting. This is considering the meat is not aged too much, since that way it is too tender, and I also find it repulsive (I tend to gag if the raw meat is too tender). It feels like a buttery texture in the back of the mouth.
I also don’t focus that much on macronutrient ratios or being 100% raw: what’s more important is the quality of the food. Say if I had to choose between raw chicken or cooked high-quality beef, I wouldn’t eat raw grain fed chicken just to stay raw as some primal dieters would. I would choose the food of higher quality, generally. But the problem today is, the quality of foods is so low everywhere, everything contains preservatives, flours, oils, refined sugars, hidden ingredients. Even a sandwich at the airport contains 30+ ingredients. Pasta is enriched with synthetic vitamins, boiled in fluoridated water at restaurants and then vegetable oil is added. Meats at Walmart are now gassed or injected with Carbon monoxide, and put in salt/vitamin/preservative solution.
What’s difficult is finding high quality stuff (the way all foods were produced a couple of hundred years back).
Take the simple product, honey. I don’t care how organic or raw/unheated/unfiltered a honey is – if they feed their bees sugar or Corn Syrup (even if it’s organic sugar/syrup), the honey is not something I view as “real”, health giving honey.
Bruce, how do you put your healthy eating into practice? What do you do when traveling? What do you do when eating out?
When I eat out I can’t stop analyzing and I really don’t know what to choose anymore. What’s least harmful? Synthetic vitamins and fluoride in pasta along with a sauce made out of artificial ingredients and probably vegetable oils? OR the beef that is fried in rancid oils? OR the white rice that has been enriched and probably microwaved so it can be served hot? OR the sashimi which again is probably made with enriched rice and farmed salmon that has been given artificial colors, grains, antibiotics and hormones?
If I go to a whole foods store (considered one of the healthiest places to eat) I have no idea what to choose anymore. All their vegetable sautes are made with canola oil. Then they have baked and overcooked chicken legs made with butter. Granted, they have raw organic salad bars and “raw foods” sections: but these foods provide so little calories, are high in PUFA’s and fiber, are tough to digest… Their sushi section is again a tough choice: white enriched rice OR brown rancid rice? Farmed salmon?
Do you pack your own food when traveling as AV suggests, honey+butter mix? Cheese?
What’s the least damaging you can order at a restaurant in your opinion? Beef/chicken/pasta/pizza/rice/wok-dishes/sushi/etc . ?
Matt said in one of his old articles you can heal eating fast food if you eat the Schwarzbein way. Avoid anything fried as well as soft drinks (regular or diet) of course. Recently I’ve been doing a cheat day once every week with 3-5 burgers. My starch digestion has improved. Improving the body’s ability to tolerate foods has more benefit than totally avoiding them, but I can’t see any redeeming qualities in things like french fries, doughnuts, potato chips, cookies, etc. It would be better to eat a McDonald’s cheeseburger than a few servings of cookies or fried potato chips, IMO. For family holidays, restaurants, and things, it’s probably best to stick with mostly paleo foods – meat, eggs, vegetables, fruit, potatoes. Maybe butter. Not a lot of nuts / seeds due to the fiber, PUFAs, and toxins. At holidays, like Thanksgiving, I eat just meat, hard-boiled eggs, butter, fruits, and vegetables. Maybe potatoes or rice. Perfect digestion with no sleepiness at all, even after a big meal.
Dark juices are protective against some of the toxins like bleached or enriched white flour, PUFAs, etc. Grape juice or wine or pomegranate juice or cranberry or cherry. Cheese or ricotta also seems to protect some from PUFAs.
Having cheat days or cheat meals may be the best way improve the metabolism and digestion. Most diets damage metabolism including low-carb. Cyclical eating may be a more effective strategy. Any thing can be healthy in the right context. To eat a quart of ice cream one day a week might be healthier than to eat a cup of it every day. It might actually improve your health and make you lose weight by speeding up the metabolism. Look at the competitive eaters. Several of the best ranked eaters are slender. Sonya Thomas is 98 pounds, and she can eat more than football players and sumo wrestlers and 500 pound obese men. They don’t eat big and then starve, they eat a lot of food every day to keep in training. Calories don’t make you fat and bad foods do not inexorably cause disease. It depends on how you approach them, IMO.
Well said Bruce,
Most people, when learning about health and nutrition become too neurotic over time. There are certain foods that are of primary importance to avoid – refined sugars and veggie oil products such as doughnuts certainly comes to mind.
To stress out about an occasional restaurant meal is really unhealthy. If you decide to go out to a restaurant, go out to a restaurant. Eat, enjoy, relax. If you feel like it wasn’t a healthy experience, then don’t it every day.
There is a fine line between eating to be healthy and enhance your life and eating in a way that is completely neurotic and debilitating – socially and otherwise.
Ditto on the habitual point. I know someone who ate 1 tiny dove chocolate and a glass of wine with dinner every night. I told her I’d rather see her have a bottle of wine and a pound of chocolate on Saturday night than do it every single day. She lost weight effortlessly when she cut those out of course. Poor daily habits cause poor health, not a once-in-a-blue moon binge.
Eating a ton of food provides metabolic stimulation. Personally i think that’s why Aajonus recommends such large quantities of food. For many, that, in and of itself helps make key metabolic changes such as the lowering of cortisol, increase of active thyroid hormones, and a lowering of insulin and leptin resistance. Long-term there’s no real advantage to it, but for the sake of healing, it can be a powerful tool.
And does eating high-fat and high-carb cause insulin resistance? Definitely not. However, both low-fat diets and low-carb diets can help someone with insulin resistance feel better. Low fat diets can lower insulin resistance if natural carbs are eaten. Low-carb diets keep insulin and blood sugar from going up so high, so they yield immediate perceived benefits.
A low-carb diet that contains healthy foods, no refined garbage, no caffeine, is high in saturated fat and doesn’t rely upon large quantities of “lean protein” can be very therapeutic long-term.
I am with Bruce also. I travel all the time, when I had the LC monkey on my back I used to freak out trying to get something that fit my plan. My last 2 trips my lunches were a burger or sandwhich and bottle of water. I did not think twice about it. No cravings, no weight gain, no guilt.
“Ditto on the habitual point. I know someone who ate 1 tiny dove chocolate and a glass of wine with dinner every night. I told her I’d rather see her have a bottle of wine and a pound of chocolate on Saturday night than do it every single day. She lost weight effortlessly when she cut those out of course. Poor daily habits cause poor health, not a once-in-a-blue moon binge.”
But maybe she would have lost as easily by bingeing on those foods once or twice a week. People have rapidly transformed their bodies by cheating once a week for a whole day, like Tim Ferriss. Naturally I think it would be better to cheat with Haagen-Dazs ice cream than with a box of Krispy Kreme doughnuts, cookies, or food fried in PUFA oils. It would be a better cheat to drink Mexican Coke that is made with sugar than American Coke. Whatever. I’ve experimented with eating granulated sugar all by itself and the effects have been suppression of hunger (given a high water intake – sugar by itself is almost devoid of water). So, even the worst of foods can be far less harmful when eaten within the right context.
What I would eliminate entirely is fried food, high-PUFA oils, pastries, cookies, cakes, pies, and the like.
Another point. after about 2 weeks of my weekly fast food burger binges, I’ve now lost 3-5 pounds. I weigh myself once per week, usually, but I haven’t weighed in two weeks. I think you must “get healthy to lose weight” – like Schwarzbein said. The opposite doesn’t work. Any diet that says to cut out food groups or limit the calories is doomed to fail without giant will power, esp if you live in the “real world.” I saw a commercial yesterday for some new diet (Skinny Switch) where you were told to cheat every 3 days with like a bowl of ice cream or whatever is your favorite food. And you didn’t have to eat anything you didn’t like. It was customized based on your favorite foods, but eliminating sugar for 2/3rds of the time and having a treat every 3rd day to keep your metabolism from slowing down. It was totally customizable and you did not have to count calories, eat less, or exercise. Many people were saying they felt like were eating more, because the diet said to really stuff yourself on 2 days, then have a treat on the 3rd day. That’s how weight loss should work IMO, in a world without diet gurus. Avoiding macronutrients will eventually slow the metabolism and make you miserable unless you have will power.
An update on Charles Washington. He now admits that he has severe pain when he sits in a hard chair. He’s a paralegal, and spends all day sitting in court on hard chairs. He claims that zero-carbs will normalize body-fat and weight, but he has pain sitting in hard chairs like many vegans and low-fat dieters. He has also complained of being cold. I saw it on his forum. Just search for posts by
Charles with the word “cold” and you’ll probably find them easily. Charles has pretty much ruined his metabolism, from what I can tell. Many vegans enjoy much better health, even raw vegans.
Gaining while ZC
My wife kind of shadowed my low carbing last year, not really committing to it. She ended up losing 35 lbs with regular cheats, very little exersize.
“An update on Charles Washington. He now admits that he has severe pain when he sits in a hard chair. He’s a paralegal, and spends all day sitting in court on hard chairs. He claims that zero-carbs will normalize body-fat and weight…”
Most of the members seem caught up with body fat percentage, or some kind of targeted weight infatuation. It’s kind of similar to the raw vegan boards I used to read; the easiest thing for any of them to say is that it’s natural.
Just makes me glad I found this blog..haha
I probably ate 3,000-4,000 Calories just yesterday. I eat more carbs on weekends, like pancakes with Hodgson Mills natural white flour and maple syrup and brie for Saturday breakfast and a burger binge on Saturday or Sunday. Yesterday I ate fast food all day. For breakfast we went to a restaurant and I got a sausage, egg, and cheese croissant sandwich. Water with no ice to drink. For lunch, I had 5 (small) cheeseburgers with water to drink. For dinner I had 4 small bacon cheeseburgers with water to drink. After dinner, I had a 4 oz package of Haagen-Dazs and before bed an orange with water. I woke up and weighed myself after going to the toilet and my weight was down 3-5 pounds from what it was 2 weeks ago.
The truth is that you can lose weight by eating tons of carbs, if you don’t eat a lot of refined sugars. Maybe one binge a week, preferably on something natural or expensive, like premium ice cream (cream as the first ingredient, no carrageenan, no gums, no HFCS, no soybean oil, and no other garbage – just cream, milk, sugar, egg yolks, and other natural stuff). My digestion is better, my skin is looking better, my health has obviously improved and I don’t think I’m damaging myself by having some crap on the weekend. Most of the week, I eat no white flour, refined sugar, etc. I avoid PUFA oils except in minute occasional traces.
“targeted weight infatuation”
Good term. It’s stupid to fixate on some exact weight or clothing size, like they do. The goal should be health and then a well-proportioned body will follow. Just eating to be a weight or a clothing size is what vapid air-heads do.
vapid air-heads LOL
I spent some time there. IMO It is a diet board ran by a few dictators with little knowledege, kind of like a cult that eats walmart beef.
Fortunately reading this blog has opened my eyes to a few things.
By the way Thanks again to Matt, I am half way through Swarzbein 2, great book.
i just don’t get swarzbein, don’t eat saturated fat, eat lots of PUSF’s, don’t eat aged cheese though because its damaged. Where does she come up with this?
I am also the fan of the cheat days!! Usually once a week, sometimes i will go out and drink with my friends also once a week. I like to go to in-n-out burger and have two double doubles, no fries, no coke, or go eat a couple pieces of Pesto pizza, also no soda. I never have a problem, and i stay the same weight, which is healthy right now.
I did take a look at the skinny switch program… looks like the Swarzbein eating plan with a cheat day every third day… I might have to give it a try and see what my wieght does. Eat perfect for two days, let it fly the third… sounds fun!
Matt: “does eating high-fat and high-carb cause insulin resistance? Definitely not.”
So what does cause insulin resistance? I think a lot of diseases are a mystery to us, and we’re looking at associations as proof. Like what causes scurvy? Is it as simple as Vitamin C and anti-scorbutics? Or is there more to it than that? Here’s a paper I found arguing that rancid fats predispose you to scurvy. (This was once widely accepted.) Has anybody developed scurvy who wasn’t eating white flour or other grains which are highly perishable and might contain rancid fat? If scurvy is simply a matter of eating carbs with no vitamin C, then something like honey should cause scurvy. Is there evidence of anyone developing scurvy by eating honey with no grains, beans, nuts, or seeds in their diet at all?
Disease is more complex than most people believe, IMO. What people blame on carbs might be more attributable to grains and beans, particularly rancid ones. Scurvy seems to be a disease of grain eaters in general. Would you get scurvy if you ate refined sugar dry all by itself with no grains? I don’t think we know enough now to answer that. The people who developed scurvy were eating flour and sugar, not JUST one or the other. Maybe sugar was a catalyst, but scurvy wouldn’t have been seen if they didn’t eat flour. There is so much we don’t really know and people just adopt a religious dogma.
“i just don’t get swarzbein, don’t eat saturated fat, eat lots of PUSF’s, don’t eat aged cheese though because its damaged. Where does she come up with this?”
Schwarzbein only recommends that people who have to increase their carbohydrate level to heal decrease their saturated fat intake only at first, to minimize weight gain (she says that saturated fat and glucose compete for energy) or if the person is unable to do any form of exercise at all. She doesn’t stress eating anything polyunsaturated if it’s heated; she recommends both mono and poly fats if someone is on the low-saturated plan, but never heated polyunsaturated. So she’s a fan of saturated fats, but the aged cheese thing, she doesn’t go into great detail. Basically she lays out different approaches for different people’s needs, and her over all conclusions make a lot of sense, and that’s important I think.
“Schwarzbein only recommends that people who have to increase their carbohydrate level to heal decrease their saturated fat intake only at first, to minimize weight gain (she says that saturated fat and glucose compete for energy) or if the person is unable to do any form of exercise at all.”
High-fat and high-carb doesn’t make you fat if you don’t eat refined sugars all the time. One week ago and a week before that I ate a pint of Haagen-Dazs in one serving, then none the rest of the week. I’ve been doing stuff like that once per week based on Matt’s ideas, Tim Ferriss, and other things I’ve heard about since then (like Skinny Switch). I think Matt is right that you could lose weight and eat every meal at McDonald’s, Taco Bell, and White Castle as long as you did not eat the fried food and drank only water (no regular or diet soft drinks, no tea, and no coffee whatsoever). I might do an experiment like Morgan Spurlock eating 2 Taco Bell cheese and beef burritos every meal, and I bet I lose weight or remain the same weight. That is 2,800 Calories, and 312g of carbs. Calories do not make you fat if you eat the right way. Eat a high ratio of starch to sugar and avoid PUFAs and fried food and I think you can lose weight regardless of calories, fat, or carb intake. And you can have a cheat one day a week like eating a pint of ice cream (preferably Haagen Dazs).
“High-fat and high-carb doesn’t make you fat if you don’t eat refined sugars all the time.”
Wouldn’t this depend on your the condition of your metabolism ?
Hey again guys,
I just posted a blog entry that sort of responds to this one. You all might find it interesting.
Also, along those lines, I’d like to respond to some of Bruce’s claims about being able to eat lots and lots of carbs without weight gain — cheeseburgers and whatnot. I believe this is because of a lack of fructose in his diet. If he’s eating burgers with water, as opposed to burgers with soda — as most people do — then he is avoiding fructose. If he’s avoiding refined sugar, he’s avoiding fructose. With starch being his main carbohydrate source, he may be safe from the metabolic disasters that fructose can cause.
Check out my blog post, “Can High-Carb, Low-Fat Be Healthy” for more on this, including supportive evidence for fructose being the problem, NOT refined carbs in general. I’d love to hear what you guys think.
Ryan, I eat a high sugar diet during the week – milk, unheated honey, 100% orange and grapefruit juice, root veggies, and small amounts of potatoes or white sushi rice (Lundberg). For the last two weeks, I've been having a burger binge 1-2 days per week, like 3-5 McD's double cheese, 6-10 White Castles, 2 Taco Bell cheese & double beef burritos, etc. I ate like an extra 1,000 or more calories those days, yet my weight stayed the same or it went down. A week ago and a week before that, I ate a pint of H-D ice cream for one of the cheat days. This weekend, I just had a 4 oz single serving container, and was satisfied. My weight is steadily falling despite eating large amounts of starches (and some sugar too). During the week, I eat virtually no refined sugar and white flour, but on the weekend I might have a few Hodgson Mills white flour pan-cakes, fast food, sandwiches, pizza, or another high-starch food. I use Whole Foods 365 organic grade B maple syrup always with the pancakes, along with butter, and a small piece of cheese like 2 oz of brie. Also I keep PUFAs very low all the time, like 5-10g a day maximum.
Scott: "Wouldn't this depend on your the condition of your metabolism?"
Maybe my metabolism and Matt's are more healthy than most, but I think it would still work if you eliminate soft drinks, fried food, and anything high in sugars. Obviously, there is sugar in most bread and sandwiches, but the key is to eat a high ratio of starch to sugar, IMO, and eliminate stimulants, artificial sugars, trans fat, and high-PUFA oil as much as possible. (Always say "no mayo" and "no oil" on the food.) The combination will kick you into fat burning mode, even if you eat high-fat, too. Light exercise & sun light & enough sleep couldn't hurt, either. The cyclical diet seems to help speed up metabolism greatly. Eating the same thing over and over again causes a drop in the metabolic rate.
In my lab, we feed our mice and rats a standard lab chow made by Purina. It’s made from whole grain corn and soybeans that are ground, cooked, mixed with vitamins, minerals and a little animal fat, extruded into pellets, autoclaved, irradiated and then stored for who knows how long before feeding.
This is as “rancid” as it gets. These mice and rats have had a very high reproductive capacity for hundreds of generations now. The female mice can rear a large litter almost once a month for their entire reproductive period. These rodents live just fine until late middle age.
Standard lab chow is made from “rancid” whole grains, often including whole wheat, and any vet can tell you that it doesn’t stop rodents from breeding prolifically.
The obvious explanation for the Bernasek (1970) paper you cited (on flour freshness and reproduction) is vitamin degradation in the flour. Probably what happened is vitamin E was depleted in the ground flour, which lowered the rodents’ reproductive capacity because the diet was otherwise low in vitamin E.
Since vitamin supplementation can solve the reproductive problems of rodents fed “rancid” grains, it’s clear that the problem is not with the rancidity itself, but with vitamin status.
Very good points on the topic of rancid flour. I’ve also always wondered how dogs can eat corn-based kibble and breed generation after generation with no apparent difficulty (degenerative disease is a whole other story). Must be the vitamins added to the kibble, just like your rats.
Out of curiosity, how much fructose do you estimate that you consume daily in honey and juices? If I remember correctly, the average for the American diet is around 100 grams. Most of that is most likely coming from soda, candy, and condiments like ketchup.
Quick aside, a friend of mine (with no previous health problems) and ten of his friends who lived with him on a commune in the 80s experimented with Fruitarianism and consumed lots of honey along with whole fruits. The result wasn’t spectacular: blood sugar swings, constant hunger, fatigue, GI problems, and irritability. This man was also vegetarian (macrobiotic) for 30 years with little success. He’s now a huge advocate of meat-eating.
Ryan: “supportive evidence for fructose being the problem, NOT refined carbs in general.”
I think Matt and I both disagree that it is “fructose” causing the problem. Those studies used refined fructose, which is not the same thing as raw honey, apples, bananas, maple syrup, oranges, carrots, raw organic agave syrup, etc. I have not seen any proof that fructose is bad that isolates it from the refining processes, which strip the anti-oxidants, vitamins, and minerals. So while refined sugar may have one effect, unheated honey may have another effect entirely.
Sugars in unrefined foods are healthy if eaten in reasonable amounts – and Cleave noted that very clearly. Americans eat a massive amount of refined sugar, around 200g a day per person. And since certain people eat less, others eat more. Do you think that someone eliminating sugar and eating 10 bananas a day instead (190-356 grams of carbs) would be better or worse off? How about someone who cuts out Coke and drinks a quart of orange juice? Will they be better or worse off?
You can’t ignore the refining process or say that it’s the fructose that has some effect inherently. The refining changes things. What you eat with a food changes things. How often you eat a food changes things. There are endless variables. Do competitive eaters damage their body by eating 3 cheesecakes one day, then going months without eating any? Would eating sugar cause any problems if people were not eating starch with it? I think there is a problem with combining sugars with starches. You blame the sugars, but you could also blame the starches or the mix of foods. Maybe someone could be healthy eating 300g of sugar a day if they don’t eat starch and have some animal foods to compensate for the sugar. Like you said,
“It’s hard to say for certain which food caused problems when evaluating primitive cultures as Cleave and Price did because, in every case examined, where there was smoke there was fire: white flour and sugar were being eaten at the same time.”
Also, they were eaten in the absence of healthy animal foods. People “displaced” animal foods with refined sugars and starches. That’s why Price called them “displacing foods of commerce.” There’s really no way to say which food was the biggest problem, because most of them were eating both, plus they didn’t eat other healthy foods with them. What if someone ate 200g of sugar a day, along with 200g of liver, 200g of butter, and 200g of potatoes? Would they be more or less healthy than someone on SAD?
“Out of curiosity, how much fructose do you estimate that you consume daily in honey and juices? If I remember correctly, the average for the American diet is around 100 grams. Most of that is most likely coming from soda, candy, and condiments like ketchup.”
Probably half that. I eat around 80-120g carbs normally with low starch. Lactose, glucose, sucrose, and fructose.
“Quick aside, a friend of mine (with no previous health problems) and ten of his friends who lived with him on a commune in the 80s experimented with Fruitarianism and consumed lots of honey along with whole fruits. The result wasn’t spectacular: blood sugar swings, constant hunger, fatigue, GI problems, and irritability. This man was also vegetarian (macrobiotic) for 30 years with little success. He’s now a huge advocate of meat-eating.”
Fiber may be the problem. I think fruit should be juiced and strained or lightly cooked. Anthony Colpo recently said on his Low Carb Muscle forum that he’s now eating a high-carb diet with fruits and potatoes and white rice. He said he has better results cooking the fruit lightly than eating it raw. This is something I have also seen mentioned by Ray Peat and Dr. Walter L. Voegtlin, and others. They said fruit should be cooked or juiced to get rid of the fiber or break it down. A lot of fruits are also picked unripe and may be toxic unless cooked. Anthony also said that his exercise performance went through the roof when he added carbs. He rode faster on a heavier one-speed bike than he did using a lighter multi-speed bike while eating low-carb.
Removing the fiber radically changes the effects of fruit, IMO. I don’t eat much whole fruit, unless I know it was picked ripe, like fresh local seasonal fruit or sun-dried, frozen, or canned. I don’t do fruits with unavoidable seeds either, as in berries, figs, etc. And I always peel the fruits. Honey and maple syrup may be better due to the lack of fiber.
"These mice and rats have had a very high reproductive capacity for hundreds of generations now. The female mice can rear a large litter almost once a month for their entire reproductive period. These rodents live just fine until late middle age."
You can say the same thing re commercial cat food and Pottenger's cats. Cats live 15-20 years and reproduce fine on highly processed food. But adding synthetic or isolated vitamins and minerals isn't the same as using fresh unrefined non-rancid food. And living "just fine" until late middle age is not the same as living in good health until Jack LaLanne age (94) or Bob Delmonteque age (84). I would be happier with the latter. How about you?
"Since vitamin supplementation can solve the reproductive problems of rodents fed "rancid" grains, it's clear that the problem is not with the rancidity itself, but with vitamin status."
Supplementation is cheating. I don't use any supplements and I have achieved more with my health than any lab rat can ever hope to achieve. So has Matt. I have no real interest in what lab rats and mice are fed. Their diets suck, period. They would be much healthier if they got diet "self-selection" as many studies show & healthier still if they were fed fresh, unrefined, non-rancid foods.
Even JK says in The Optimal Diet that its perfectly ok to eat up to a 150g of carbs in one day….just don’t do it all the time, and as long as it is in starch form.
Bruce when your not on your binge days, can you give me an idea of what your meals are composed of, breakfast, lunch, and dinner… a typical menu, i am very curious? You say what you eat alot, but what are some of your typical food combinations, what is in one meal? Also what are your thoughts on eggs, are the PUFA’s in them bad, if eaten raw?
I just went and gave blood today, i will see what effect that has on me and my digestion. I drank some !00% orange juice afterwards, then an hour later i went and scarfed down 3 in-n-out double double burgers, no mayo, no ketchup, no mustard, no tomatoes no soda, or fries…. no bloating at all!
back to normal eating tomorrow.
I have to agree with matt and bruce, and schwarbein, that you have to heal first. I did low carb…. felt like crap, had to drink coffee to get through fasts, restricted foods. I even ate like Art De vany… i couldn’t stand all the veggies or all the whole fruit, bloat city. I don’t know why devany encourages drinking coffee also… i don’t know if he drinks it everyday, but he has mentioned it in his meals, he drinks like 4 cups a day sometimes, but i don’t know if he drinks if everyday. Anyways, once i ditched the coffee, added veggie juice, fruit juice, raw milk, cheese, butter, and STARCH back in i felt sooooo much better. Coffee has got to be the worst thing ever, and everyone trys to support there addiction to it with papers showing its antioxidant abilities. I am with Schwarzbein, get the stimulant chemicals out, and let your adrenal glands heal!!! I think it would be fine to drink it periodically, but the addiction some have for it. All the low carbers are burning out there adrenals, by having coffee in the morning with breakfast…. but no not orange juice… to many carbs.
Troy, my results have been so great that I'm going to change my diet. From now on my diet is going to be unlimited starch, protein, and fat: burgers, pizza, tacos, pasta, etc. I used to get tired if I ate too much starch and short of breath. Now you know what? I can eat two potatoes, 2 pieces of sourdough bread, both covered with butter, and 4-8 ounces of meat. I'm satisfied, no cravings, no bloating, no gas, no fatigue, no brain fog, no weight gain. Nothing. My health has turned 180 degrees thanks to Matt, Tim Ferriss, Ray Peat, and others. I've gone from having problems with starch to where I can eat 150g of starch in a meal and not have a single problem whatsoever (including but not limited to weight gain and digestive problems). I think Jan K and others are simply full of shit. So are all the dumb body-builders who say "don't eat fat and carbs." The saying should be changed to "don't eat starches and sugars together, except on 1-2 days per week." Eat all of the starch, protein, and fat you want – the more starch, the better. And avoid sugar, stimulants, PUFAs, trans fat, and other crap like the plague.
This is the ultimate 180. I have made a massive leap forward in my health with a high-everything diet. I have nothing but high hopes and expect that my health is going to lea ahead more. Fiber causes me no problems any more either. I can eat a bunch of bean burritos and have perfect thin soft bowel movements. It seems that my results have surpassed even what Matt thinks is possible. My next experiment is going to be bingeing on comb honey once a week. I'm gonna eat like a pound of comb honey this weekend all at once. My health will probably take another big leap forward. I have nothing but love & respect for guys like Matt. They changed all the rules of the game. A healthy man should be able to eat unlimited starch, fat, protein, and fiber with no weight gain, no digestive problems, and no side effects whatsoever. Matt is the man and this blog is the only blog worth reading as far as I'm concerned.
Tbanks, Matt. I'm getting emotional now. This blog has changed my life more than I'd ever imagined possible.
The point is that grain rancidity doesn’t interfere with rodent reproduction if vitamins are sufficient in the diet. That changes the interpretation of the Bernasek study, arguing against the theory that the effect was caused by an inherent toxicity of rancid grains.
The mice we use end up full of tumors later in life, so no I would not recommend their diet. But they’re also massively inbred so who knows why they get tumors.
By the way, Dr. Mercola had an article on flour and alloxan the other day that was pretty interesting. He came as close as anyone I’ve read to quantifying it. I thought about this some more though, and alloxan could only account for type I diabetes because its effect is mediated by direct toxicity to the pancreas.
Stephan: “By the way, Dr. Mercola had an article on flour and alloxan the other day that was pretty interesting. He came as close as anyone I’ve read to quantifying it. I thought about this some more though, and alloxan could only account for type I diabetes because its effect is mediated by direct toxicity to the pancreas.”
I’m not really worried about alloxan, as saturated fats (like coconut and tallow) would protect against its toxicity. Just don’t eat PUFA oils, mayonnaise, canola, peanut, salad dressing, and fried foods, and you should be OK. I do think it is a lot better to eat unbleached un-enriched white flour, but the risk can be lowered with various dietary changes.
regarding your enthusiasm for all-new as much as you can eat protein, starch, fat protocol, is today April 1?
Bruce, so before someone tried this way of eating, would you suggest they eat like rap peat, and heal, then eat this way? or just start eating this way now?
quite the change Bruce! quite the change…
Matt what have you got to add to this?
J: “regarding your enthusiasm for all-new as much as you can eat protein, starch, fat protocol, is today April 1?”
Not even close. I posted it on March 17.
Troy: “Bruce, so before someone tried this way of eating, would you suggest they eat like rap peat, and heal, then eat this way? or just start eating this way now?”
It’s hard to say whether I was already healed or whether the change healed me. But I do know I’m changed. For today’s breakfast, I ate about 150g of starch, 50g of protein, 60g of fat, and 14g of fiber. No gas, no bloating, no negative symptoms at all. I was satisfied for 8 hours and had no problems. I think the best diet you could possibly get on is unlimited starch, fat, protein, and of course calories. A healthy metabolism can burn off 150g of carbs like it was nothing. Carbs don’t maek you fat, and anybody who says they do is insane.
Bruce said, “From now on my diet is going to be unlimited starch, protein, and fat: burgers, pizza, tacos, pasta, etc. I used to get tired if I ate too much starch and short of breath. Now you know what? I can eat two potatoes, 2 pieces of sourdough bread, both covered with butter, and 4-8 ounces of meat.”
Aside from your “binges,” sounds like a low-fructose diet to me, Bruce. :-)
Ryan: “Aside from your “binges,” sounds like a low-fructose diet to me, Bruce.”
But where have you heard of anyone doing so much healing by eating a low-fructose diet all the time? The bingeing was most likely part of the cure. I expect a huge breakthrough when I eat a whole pound of raw comb honey in one go this weekend. I think it will probably put me onto a new plane of carbohydrate tolerance and good health. I must have done some healing on my own with the low-PUFA, low-fiber diet and other things. But this takes it to a whole other level. I can eat pretty much any amount of carbs and/or fiber now and my digestion is effortless. (Elimination is also neat and effortless.) Everything is better, my eyes are sharper and more steady, so is my brain. I have complete dietary freedom which others don’t have. I could be healthy on finger sandwiches, potatoes, rice, beans, pasta, bread, you name it. All are as easy to digest to me now as water was in the past.
Bruce I must say that I am shocked and challenged by your experiences and changes (and amused, if I had a dollar for every time you’ve commented that your skin and digestion are greatly improved…)
Are you leaving behind your previous concerns about the possible negative effects of the additives in enriched flour?
Barring your experiment in bingeing on honeycomb are you planning on eating raw honey on a near daily basis along with your higher starch intake or are you going to cut your natural sugar intake back to just cheat days? Likewise will you be continuing to drink milk and OJ on your regular high everything days or just on cheat/binge days?
When you say “avoid sugars like the plague” are you referring only to refined sugars? You think that it will be OK, if not beneficial, to eat sugars 1-2 days a week. You’ve made reference to ice cream being one of your potential binge foods. Obviously this is made with refined sugar, so other forms of refined sugar should be OK to cheat with as well.
Will experiment with eating cooked fruits along with your high starch/protein/fat diet?
“Bruce I must say that I am shocked and challenged by your experiences and changes (and amused, if I had a dollar for every time you’ve commented that your skin and digestion are greatly improved…)”
with just a hint of gentle ribbing, the scallywag in me says stay tuned for even more new and vastly improved digestive and skin wonders!
Bruce, So you know longer believe starches ruin your thyroid?
“I expect a huge breakthrough when I eat a whole pound of raw comb honey in one go this weekend.”
It would be interesting to see the effect on your blood sugar.Are you active? work out etc…
“I have to agree with matt and bruce, and schwarbein, that you have to heal first. I did low carb…. felt like crap, had to drink coffee to get through fasts, restricted foods. I even ate like Art De vany… i couldn’t stand all the veggies or all the whole fruit, bloat city. I don’t know why devany encourages drinking coffee also… i don’t know if he drinks it everyday, but he has mentioned it in his meals, he drinks like 4 cups a day sometimes, but i don’t know if he drinks if everyday. Anyways, once i ditched the coffee, added veggie juice, fruit juice, raw milk, cheese, butter, and STARCH back in i felt sooooo much better. Coffee has got to be the worst thing ever, and everyone trys to support there addiction to it with papers showing its antioxidant abilities. I am with Schwarzbein, get the stimulant chemicals out, and let your adrenal glands heal!!! I think it would be fine to drink it periodically, but the addiction some have for it. All the low carbers are burning out there adrenals, by having coffee in the morning with breakfast…. but no not orange juice… to many carbs. “
I don’t understand coffee. So many people want to believe it’s good for them – and I think that’s just because they don’t want to give it up. Most likely an older generation thing, I just never got into that.
And yeah, healing first is the way to go! Not covering something up with limiting carbs or drinking coffee. So many people I know depend on sugar and coffee. bah humbug
Sen: "Bruce I must say that I am shocked and challenged by your experiences and changes"
So am I, Sen! But that doesn't mean it's wrong. Just last night I ate around 93g of starches, 33g of protein, and 28g of fat for dinner. Before bed I had one tsp of unheated honey and a glass of milk. I slept great and woke up refreshed and my weight's down from yesterday. I have not gained anything from eating unlimited rice, beans, potatoes, white flour, and whole grain bread. I have not had
"(and amused, if I had a dollar for every time you've commented that your skin and digestion are greatly improved…)"
I've tried dozens of diets and never had truly flawless skin, and I don't yet, so expect to here more improvements, it's a trial and error experience.
"Are you leaving behind your previous concerns about the possible negative effects of the additives in enriched flour?"
I can now eat large amounts of beans and whole grains and have perfect digestion, where I couldn't before. Avoiding sugars and PUFAs would probably protect against toxins. The French eats a lot of flour & it's probably enriched. They also eat a lot of butter, cheese, cream, foie gras, beef, veal, etc. The healthiest area of France eats the most foie gras, so their low PUFA intake and low sugar intake may protect them from all the flour they eat in croissants, french bread, baguettes, etc. They don't eat much refined sugar – or didn't in the past – and probably eat junk in binges rather than habitually.
"Barring your experiment in bingeing on honeycomb are you planning on eating raw honey on a near daily basis along with your higher starch intake or are you going to cut your natural sugar intake back to just cheat days? Likewise will you be continuing to drink milk and OJ on your regular high everything days or just on cheat/binge days?"
I'm still eating a small amount of honey and milk. My overall goal is to be able to eat unlimited starch, sugar, protein, fat, and alcohol with no weight gain and no digestive problems and no bad effects
whatsoever. Maybe I could do it now with no side effects, thanks to the healing I have done. Anyway, I know I now have the right tools, because I ate high carb and high fat and high fiber all of yesterday and my weight is down now.
Sen: “When you say “avoid sugars like the plague” are you referring only to refined sugars? You think that it will be OK, if not beneficial, to eat sugars 1-2 days a week. You’ve made reference to ice cream being one of your potential binge foods. Obviously this is made with refined sugar, so other forms of refined sugar should be OK to cheat with as well.”
I’m never going to binge on doughnuts or french fries or PUFA mayonnaise or fried chicken or things like that. Those might undo all of my benefits. Maybe following Ray Peat’s ideas is part of what allowed me to heal this much. I think I could do high-starch and high-sugars, but I would have to cook the fruits maybe if they’re not naturally tree-ripened.
“Most likely an older generation thing, I just never got into that.”
I recently gave up coffee and switched to TEA, not sure if there is any difference.One caffeinated drink for another. I am a little concerned about the added flouride in Tea.If you look at the Lipton’s web site they even brag about the extra flouride. Like they are doing you a favor. Maybe I will taper down and go all bottled water.
Good Lord, where do I begin?
First of all, as I’ve said all along, the ultimate triumph in dietitics is to overcome dietary intolerances and metabolic inefficiencies to the point where you can eat normal without negative consequence. A young kid can often eat whatever the hell they want and feel great because they are healthy. Then they become healthy and everything they eat seems to have a negative impact.
What causes insulin resistance? That is the big question. I believe infection, inflammation, an impaired immune system and a resulting overproduction of cortisol is one possible scenario. Cortisol seems to trigger insulin resistance.
Why do we have chronic infections and inflammation in the first place? I believe that stems from the immunosuppresion of refined foods. Just like Weston A. Price and many others have discovered – a diet with refined foods lowers immunity. Perhaps it lowers immunity because when the body is burning through vitamin and mineral reserves faster than they are being resupplied, the body blocks out thyroid hormones (thyroid hormone ‘resistance’ or type II hypothyroidism). A low metabolism, and low body temperature makes one susceptible to chronic infection and incapable of fighting bacterial and yeast overgrowths (just like running a fever helps to perform the opposite).
Yes, the body is an equilibrium machine. Cut out something, and the metabolism adjusts eventually. Every path seems to lead to a dead end, despite the fantastic initial results of doing any kind of dietary reversal (vegan, low carb, all-raw, juice-fasting, fasting, food-combining, zero fiber, etc.). Each of those has its place in balancing body chemistry, but few will take you all the way to the promised land, which is a place where you can look and feel normal eating normal amounts of food with normal amounts of physical activity.
Your metabolism is running on all cylinders. When that happens, we feel great, are resistant to degenerative and infectious disease. We are of sound mind. Life is good. Plain and simple. You can eat fiber and meats together without intestinal stasis and bulky stools. The metabolism controls transit time and stool bulk. All macronutrient groups play a role in that.
Cheers to a high everything diet. Yesterday I ate 3 Russet potatoes, 3 slices of foie gras, raw cheese, a half-stick of butter, 2 quarts of raw milk, and a bowl of popcorn with coconut oil. My weight is still exactly the same as it was when I came off of 30 days of meat-only. If carbs make someone like Charles overweight, are the carbs to blame, or is it Charles metabolism? The answer to that question is very clear.
How do you fix the metabolism? How do pump up the thyroid, lower cortisol, overcome insulin resistance, leptin resistance, etc? Eat a high-calorie, no-refined sugar or stimulant (coffee is probably worse than refined sugar) diet that isn’t too restrictive of any macronutrient group.
Schwarzbein’s program works because she tells you four things: all of which are some of the most valuable information in the world – eat lots of food, don’t exercise too much, get plenty of sleep, and avoid food additives and refined foods… and be patient as doing so heals your metabolism once and for all, allowing you to live like a normal person once again.
This blog has done nothing but accelerate in its integrity since you stumbled across it, challenging every word of it, and being fierce and unwielding in your rebuttals. My sentiments for your contributions are just as strong as yours are for mine. Someday we’ll go Morgan Spurlock, except we’ll go higher in calories, choose some fat people to join us, and monitor our biomarkers to show a lowering of cholesterol, triglycerides, body fat, waist circumference, etc. The whole world of nutrition will be on their knees in total befuddlement. I can just see it now: “The high-saturated fat, high red meat, high-sodium, high carb, high-cholesterol, high-protein fast food fat-loss diet to reverse the biomarkers of degenerative disease.”
“This blog has done nothing but accelerate in its integrity since you stumbled across it, challenging every word of it, and being fierce and unwielding in your rebuttals. My sentiments for your contributions are just as strong as yours are for mine. Someday we’ll go Morgan Spurlock, except we’ll go higher in calories, choose some fat people to join us, and monitor our biomarkers to show a lowering of cholesterol, triglycerides, body fat, waist circumference, etc. The whole world of nutrition will be on their knees in total befuddlement. I can just see it now: “The high-saturated fat, high red meat, high-sodium, high carb, high-cholesterol, high-protein fast food fat-loss diet to reverse the biomarkers of degenerative disease.” “
And I’ll be filming it
Matt: [Someday we'll go Morgan Spurlock, except we'll go higher in calories, choose some fat people to join us, and monitor our biomarkers to show a lowering of cholesterol, triglycerides, body fat, waist circumference, etc. The whole world of nutrition will be on their knees in total befuddlement. I can just see it now: "The high-saturated fat, high red meat, high-sodium, high carb, high-cholesterol, high-protein fast food fat-loss diet to reverse the biomarkers of degenerative disease.]
Cheers to that. Fast foods could be the ultimate healing foods if you avoid the sodas and milkshakes & french fries and chicken nuggets and any similar garbage high in PUFAs, sugar, and trans fat. If you have problems with fiber, I suggest you eat Taco Bell every meal, every day, but drink just water and avoid the PUFA sauces and sugary crap like the plague. I bet you'll be fully healed in days as you are almost there now. And don't let yourself forget the potential healing power of processed food. Who knows. FOr someone who can't digest milk, maybe it would be the best thing in the world to drink non-fat dry milk in large amounts once a week, or a few cans of sweetened condensed milk one day a week. That may be the ultimate health secret. Eating a high-calorie diet during the week and a lot of junk food on the weekend may do more to fix your metabolism than eating raw milk, raw butter, raw meat, and raw cod liver oil every day.
“I suggest you eat Taco Bell every meal, every day,”
Interesting, could be lucrative if you started out Fat like the subway dude.
Scott: "It would be interesting to see the effect on your blood sugar. Are you active? work out etc…"
The body can adapt to short intermittent stresses. Chronic stresses are what ruin health, like exercising hours a day, not eating fat, not eating carbs, not eating animal foods, eating tons of table sugar and white flour and PUFAs and trans fat, using caffeine or other stimulants, etc. I'm doing light exercise like walking & active sitting, lifting weights a couple times a week, interval training a couple times a week, etc. I'm not worried about the effect on my blood sugar. A healthy metabolism could burn through 500g a day of carbs, esp high starches.
“Interesting, could be lucrative if you started out Fat like the subway dude.”
He drank diet sodas and ate potato chips if I recall correctly. His results would have been 100x better if he had just ate the sandwiches with water, IMO. It would be better to eat an extra sandwich a day than drink diet soda and eat chips fried in rancid vegetable oils.
I go on the road next week for 4 days. Since I have to eat out anyway, I think I am going to give the junk food sand. / taco and bottled water diet a whirl.
Also, Jared Fogel ate a low-fat diet. He did everything wrong except eating a lot of starch and animal protein. I feel I’m now totally free, like I just got out of dietary prison with the low-carbers. The high-everything diet (with sugar limited to weekend binges like desserts and good milk shakes and ice cream) will probably turn your metabolism into high gear like nothing ever seen before. I hope Matt is able to one day make the documentary and feed obese people 6000 Calories a day of fast food and have them lose weight and improving all of their markers: insulin, blood sugar, waist circumfernce, weight, body fat %, muscle mass, blood pressure, C-Reactive protein, glycated hemoglobin, etc. It will be the end of diet gurus as we know them. The end of deprivation and misery and food avoidance.
I hope so too. Diet death.
“I feel I’m now totally free, like I just got out of dietary prison with the low-carbers.”
I felt like that when I gave up VLC /no carb. I was in denial about all the negative effects it was having on me.
Lisa: “So you no longer believe starches ruin your thyroid?”
Avoiding them for a while might let some healing ocurr, but like Matt I feel it’s better to “overcome dietary intolerances and metabolic inefficiencies to the point where you can eat normal without negative consequence.” Avoiding things doesn’t do anything to fix them. We should face our problems head-on and leave no stones un- turned in our quest for solutions.
Matt, you and I are a perfect match. You are Penn and I’m Teller. No other blog I know of would have taken me where I have gone or let me take you to those places. You are totally open minded and you make people see things in a new light. Others are content to hide from their problems, but you challenge yourself and others to confront and overcome them. The fact you are one of the only people doing this is obvious to all readers and why they read your blog consistently. You are breaking down all barriers, destroying all sacred cows of diet – from “fat makes you fat”, to “carbs fatten”, to “calories…”
Bruce: "The French eats a lot of flour & it's probably enriched. They also eat a lot of butter, cheese, cream, foie gras, beef, veal, etc. The healthiest area of France eats the most foie gras, so their low PUFA intake and low sugar intake may protect them from all the flour they eat in croissants, french bread, baguettes, etc. They don't eat much refined sugar – or didn't in the past – and probably eat junk in binges rather than habitually."
Once again, it seems to me that fructose is really the key factor in health and disease. This is why the French can eat rich foods and white flour and remain healthy — no fructose!
Matt: I think it's absolutely wonderful that you guys want to make a transition to better health accessible for everyone. All-you-can-eat fast food for weight loss and optimal health! That would be nice, and I would love to see it happen.
However, I really question the validity of your observations concerning kids and their "ability" to eat whatever they want because they're metabolisms are healthy. As a camp counselor, I've seen may kids gain weight from year to year as they eat "whatever they want." Especially when kids get to age 13, things start getting bad.
But, hey, maybe we can somehow inject them with hormones and feed them metabolic boosting supplements to help them continue to eat whatever they want! [note sarcasm]
OR we can cut all the fructose-laden foods from their diets and see what happens from this simple change.
I'm needing more clarification on this whole junk food parade you all are going on …
Ryan: “Once again, it seems to me that fructose is really the key factor in health and disease. This is why the French can eat rich foods and white flour and remain healthy — no fructose!”
But they eat sweets sometimes, too. The way they eat them might make all of the difference in the world, though. Eating large amounts of sugars 1-2 days a week is different than eating small servings every meal or every day (habitually). I think the habituation point Matt brings up is important. Depending on coffee as a stimulant is not the same as drinking a whole pot of coffee once a week. Junk food binges once a week are very unlike eating several pieces of chocolate or a small bowl of ice cream 2-3 times a day.
“OR we can cut all the fructose-laden foods from their diets and see what happens from this simple change.”
But it’s not a simple change, because a kid is going to eat things with friends, at school, or on their own. It’s better not to have to avoid things, except the worst food of all (soft drinks and high fructose corn syrup and doughnuts are a high priority for avoidance).
“I’m needing more clarification on this whole junk food parade you all are going on …”
I think it’s consistent with your ideas of limiting fructose since the average intake would be low – even if you ate a quart of ice cream or whole cheese-cake or 3-4 chocolate bars. If you eat sugar 1-2 days a week like most Americans eat it every day, your average intake would still be 75-90% less. And I think you’d be healthier, happier, with better carb tolerance overall, too.
perhaps to correct that would be to say..
some kids can eat whatever they want
But don’t a lot of kids also have bad immune systems – not just a fast metabolism? then again, could be from cleanliness (the anti-bacterial worshiping); or getting sick once and then relying on kiddie tylenol or something (it does have fructose in it – and processed fructose does have an effect on your insides – and 70% of your immune system is supposedly in your gut).
Could also be bad parenting while in tha whom
A no-sugar diet, regardless of what you eat in its stead makes a huge difference. Many can undergo massive healing from doing just that, and they don’t have to ever leave the confines of Ronald’s house to do that. Hamburglar’s got the medicine.
What I don’t like is the inaccessibility of healthy eating. You don’t have to eat all raw or ferment all your foods or take gobs of cod liver oil or shun animal products to be healthy or have a healthy vitamin status. You don’t have to buy all organic foods to make a difference. Sure, I like the ethos of real food cultivation a la Salatin, but for those seeking results, their lives don’t have to revolve around the schedule of the farmer’s markets. That stuff is “extra credit.”
But eating the lowest quality food imaginable (fast food), with lots of red meat, saturated fat, American cheese, and most importantly – calories, while improving health by every indicator…
If one could make that work with obese and unhealthy people, it would rock the worlds of the mainstream beliefs, which are in desperate need of rocking.
And yes, the removal of fries, Coke/diet Coke, and HFCS in the food would be the modus operandi, helping support your feelings about fructose and veggie oils, which, by and large, are accurate.
Kids are unhealthy, but when they pig out on fast food and candy they don’t wake up the next morning diabetic and obese. It takes a long time for those problems to manifest and the metabolism to get ruined.
But that can be reversed and overcome in most cases. I’ll always advocate a whole foods diet with natural ingredients to keep that from happening in the first place (no habitual refined foods, stimulants, etc.).
…With the exception of an occasional sesame seed bun if trying to prove a very important point.
“A no-sugar diet, regardless of what you eat in its stead makes a huge difference. Many can undergo massive healing from doing just that, and they don’t have to ever leave the confines of Ronald’s house to do that. Hamburglar’s got the medicine.”
I don’t think you should even worry with avoiding the ketchup on the burgers. The effects are no different than if I fix a meal of brown rice, sausage, and eggs at home. A high ratio of starch to sugar is key, though. At least 4:1 or 5:1 (starch to sugar), better yet 10:1 or greater. I think one advantage of fast food is that you just can’t eat as much natural food. It was a struggle for me to eat 1/2 cup of dry brown rice (68g of carbs), where it would be simple to eat 150g of carbs from Taco Bell. And the calories are the key. If you can’t stuff down 50-150g of starch per meal, you are not gonna have the optimal healing results. And combine that with at least 30-60g of protein and 30-60g of fat for best results.
The fast food companies could make a big killing if they caught wind of this and started marketing high-fat, high-starch, high-salt, high-protein, low-sugar, zero stimulant, zero artificial sweetener, no PUFAs, and no trans fat.
Matt: _What I don’t like is the inaccessibility of healthy eating. You don’t have to eat all raw or ferment all your foods or take gobs of cod liver oil or shun animal products to be healthy or have a healthy vitamin status. You don’t have to buy all organic foods to make a difference… for those seeking results, their lives don’t have to revolve around the schedule of the farmer’s markets. That stuff is “extra credit.”_
This is one of the most brilliant things you’ve ever written. A lot of people are dogmatically convinced that you can’t do any healing without raw grass-fed animal foods. Look at the raw paleo cult. They think you have to eat mainly organ meats (raw) to heal or be healthy. It’s not as simple as nutrients in, you have to look at nutrients out. Likewise, it’s not as simple as calories in. What you eat and when can change how fast your body uses up calories by 10-fold, to where people could gain weight even on zero-carb and others could lose weight by eaitng 500g of carbs, 300g fat, and 150g of protein a day (5300 Calories). It all depends on what the food does to their metabolism.
_But eating the lowest quality food imaginable (fast food), with lots of red meat, saturated fat, American cheese, and most importantly – calories, while improving health by every indicator…
If one could make that work with obese and unhealthy people, it would rock the worlds of the mainstream beliefs, which are in desperate need of rocking._
But who sways fast foods are the lowest qualify foods imaginable. Doughnuts and french fries and Coke (regular or diet) are the lowest quality food imaginable. Cakes and pie and cookies are the worst foods imaginable. And even processed or refined food could help someome to heal if used correctly. Drinking a whole can of sweetened condensed milk once a week may be better than eating all raw, all organic, fermented, etc.
Chloe said, “some kids can eat whatever they want.”
This is true. Some kids are fat at 8-years-old, some get fat at 16, some never seem to get fat until they reach middle-age. Ditto on immune systems — it all depends on dietary upbringing, genetics, and the health of the parents.
Neither of my parents were overweight and I’ve never had problems myself, despite fructose consumption throughout high school. BUT I also made it a point to only drink water and eat no candy (I did eat power bars with HFCS). I was VERY active, soccer, weightlifting, running, and working at my dad’s auto shop as a tire changer. All that being said, I noticed a little abdominal pouch by the time I was a senior in high school.
My brother — same genetics, continuing the same diet we were raised on — is beginning to have weight and blood sugar issues now in his late 20s. My dad, also eating similar foods, was absolutely ripped until he was in his 40s. Now he is encountering weight problems in his 50s.
The point I’m getting at here is that genetics will save a person from a fructose/trans fat rich diet for a while, but eventually it all catches up with him/her.
No “6-cylinder” metabolism will last forever without cutting out the junk clogging it up, reducing its performance.
“No “6-cylinder” metabolism will last forever without cutting out the junk clogging it up, reducing its performance.”
I agree with that, I’m having trouble understanding why Bruce would want to suddenly adopt a fast-food diet. Why would you want to do that when you’re given the option of eating higher quality food that you can prepare yourself? Is this just a short experiment? Isn’t the consumption of fast food going to impact you in some way, regardless, and then all of your hard work is out the window? I’m curious…
I'm not just eating fast food, but meals with similar macronutrients (high-starch and high-fat and high-protein). Also, no soft drinks (including diet), no coffee, no tea, and no fries. This is important, because most people eat those foods with fast food. My theory is that they're the real problem and not the hamburgers and tacos and pizza and stuff like that. I'm losing weight, despite eating like 3,000 Calories or more a day and 200g of carbs or more a day. My metabolism is in high gear, like Matt said. I just ate 1/2 cup of rice (dry weight) for breakfast, and two eggs, and three sausage patties. My digestion was near-perfect, a little bit of slow down, but nothing like I've had in the past. What is going to be thrown out the window is all belief that carbs make you fat, esp when mixed with fat. I have totally shredded that hypothesis & so has Matt, although he hasn't taken it to the extreme I have (150g of carbs in a meal with no weight gain).
I’ve noticed that folk that eat specific foods – say vegan, or all meat, all raw, or dietary intakes that are very limited to a small number of foodstuffs – often do a complete turnaround: a 180, if you like.
Likewise, often folk that have eliminated all “fast food”, suddenly scarf down burgers, pizza, etc like their possessed by the Hamburgler.
This is not to condemn such action, merely an observation.
I have also noticed that many folk with “food intolerances” routinely pare back their food-stuff to the point that they can hardly eat anything whatsoever, with an ever downward spiralling in vigour.
Avoiding the “bad guys” for many folk may not be the best idea at all.
A bloody good judicious dose of the “bad medicine” can be a tonic.
I get it now, thanks Bruce! I want your opinion, do you think that Spurlock would’ve still gained weight and obtained health problems if he hadn’t eaten fries, coke or desserts during his McDonald’s experiment?
It’s funny to think that the idea of eating healthy has come full circle, right back to the starting point of actually eating fast food. It makes me kind of sad, because now I feel like all of my health-freak habits for the past 7 years aren’t as beneficial as I thought they were, and that my dumpy mother and insulin-bellied brother and father aren’t actually doing as many things wrong as I thought they were. I never want to be like them and have spent alot of my life running away from crap food because of that. Ok, sob story over.
Anonymous: “Likewise, often folk that have eliminated all “fast food”, suddenly scarf down burgers, pizza, etc like their possessed by the Hamburgler.”
Are you talking about rebound hyperphagia?
Ok guys –
I’ve been lurking a lot here. I have a few questions though. Seeing as high fat with starch is a possible approach – how would this apply to somebody who has spent the last 3 years on a high fat/low carb diet (meat/cream/butter/cheese with a few veggies flung in there)? More to the point, somebody who actually has gained fat on this type of diet, with enough calories (highish calories with 80% coming from fat)?
I see people like Bruce and Matt doing very well, but how does that really apply to the rest of us who can’t even lose – or gain no matter what we do. Start eating potatoes? Seriously?
Obviously that person I describe above is me. But here’s the thing. I don’t have a damaged metabolism. I’ve never been significantly overweight. Never done the fructose, or the poly oils. Did have some bulimia prior to low-carbing due to gaining on normal food (yeah, starch and fat). What’s with that? Low-carbing sorted it all out….until I started to gain in the past year. I’m only 32, pretty active as well.
Finding it a bit hard to take advice from people who have fast-running metabolisms, are men etc.
Just on the look-out for some real answers anyway. Nice blog btw and very interesting stuff.
I mean, I think the overall point is the ratios. So maybe you could loose weight, balance a few things out on fast food. But I doubt a lifetime of MSG is very healthy. Plus, don’t you ever think about what’s in those patties?; ever seen or read Fast Food Nation?
“The pathogens from infected cattle are spread not only in feedlots, but also at slaughterhouses and hamburger grinders. The slaughterhouse tasks most likely to contaminate meat are the removal of an animal’s hide and the removal of its digestive system. The hides are now pulled off by machine; if a hide has been inadequately cleaned, chunks of dirt and manure may fall from it onto the meat. Stomachs and intestines are still pulled out of cattle by hand; if the job is not performed carefully, the contents of the digestive system may spill everywhere.”
and don’t forget antibiotics..steroids..
I get it’s only once in a while – well, I don’t really know how often you guys go; I guess Bruce, you’re saying weekends now.
It would be quite the shocker to the population if fast food helped people; very eye opening; but still, fast food’s nothing to glorify. I mean, the only secret is all the salt and chemical fillers.
But I get it; the point is to take out fructose/sugars/vegetable oils to make sure people get that those are main variables, not fast food in general or carbs or carbs and fat that cause problems and such.
I can say this is going to be one epic film.
“Are you talking about rebound hyperphagia?”
for what its worth..
just because a monk or spiritual hermit isolates him/her self from the “sins” of humanity, focuses on “pure” thoughts, chanting and meditating for endless hours, and has taken a strict code of celibacy, doesn’t mean such an individual is “free” of sexuality and the associated thinking.
Thought is not something that can be controlled. It comes and goes. It expresses itself in “waking” and “sleeping” states.
Likewise, trying to impose some sort of control on eating – or more accurately – on the thoughts we have about eating – is an exercise in futility.
what were you eating before you low-carbed?
I’m a chick; hopefully within the next months I can be an example of a non-dude that this works. Keep in touch :)
Hey J, i know that’s very true! when I was 15-16, i was a 90 pound anorexic, 5’8 tall. When i started eating again, I gained 40 pounds in the space of 3 months. I couldn’t control it. My body had enough of my starving bullshit and I ate uncontrollably until I was back up to 130. Similar to Matt’s Wind River Diet.
Ditto to what Chloe is saying; ever since I found this blog and started eating as much as I want but with mostly animal products and no sugar and processed foods, my body fat has decreased more that I ever thought it would without starving myself. All hail Matt.
“I see people like Bruce and Matt doing very well, but how does that really apply to the rest of us who can’t even lose – or gain no matter what we do. Start eating potatoes? Seriously?”
The conventional wisdom is wrong, saying that the best way to lose weight is “eat less (calories/fat/carbs) or do a lot of exercise.” The real secret is to fix the metabolism by eating high-everything for 6-7 days a week, and then having a binge where you eat even MORE 1-2 days a week. This stops your metabolism from slowing, and puts you on the fast track to weight loss and metabolic health. The best food to cheat with on weekends would be stuff like Haagen-Dazs, pancakes covered with maple syrup, tiramisu, cheesecake, fruit juice, unheated honey, etc.
Eat a high ratio of starch to sugar most of the time (at least 4:1 or 5:1 an 10:1 or more is ideal). If you eat any sugar, it should be something like maple syrup, or unheated honey in small amounts, like a teaspoon at a time. No soft drinks or diet sodas, no coffee, no tea, no french fries, no fried chicken, no fried fish. That will work for a lot of people, IMO. There may be a period of weight gain as the body gets repaired from years of bad eating, but give it a few months and see what happens. Go by how you feel and not just weight or clothing size.
“Finding it a bit hard to take advice from people who have fast-running metabolisms, are men etc.”
We sped up our metabolism. Matt was once fat and my weight has gone up and down – fat gain in childhood, dieting, building muscle, etc. Maybe you have to heal some to eat starch without weight gain. Diana Schwarzbein’s diet is based on healing, not quick fixes. The ultimate healing is being able to eat foods that you could not eat in the past without having lots of digestive problems, weight gain, bad energy, brain fog, etc.
If the fries were cooked in healthy fats such as coconut oil or tallow would you still consider them an item to be avoided?
Can you explain your rationale behind thinking that a Mexican coke (cane sugar) would be better than American coke (HFCS)? WHen I think about it I see two sugars coming from different plants that are both heavily refined and ultimately have almost the same fructose/glucose ratio (50/50 vs. 55/45). What makes the HFCS that much worse?
Are you trying to keep your iron content reduced or just letting that fall where it does? You've mentioned your breakfast protein coming from sausage on more than one occasion (and eggs). I'm assuming that the sausage is pork, a meat that you've generally eschewed in the past due to its high PUFA content. Do you still hold with the idea that
Large Ruminant (cow/buffalo) > Small Ruminant (goat/lamb) >
Herbivore (horse) and Omnivore (pig) > Bird > Fish
or have you reconsidered that as well?
J: [Avoiding the “bad guys” for many folk may not be the best idea at all.
A bloody good judicious dose of the “bad medicine” can be a tonic.]
Harper: [I get it now, thanks Bruce! I want your opinion, do you think that Spurlock would’ve still gained weight and obtained health problems if he hadn’t eaten fries, coke or desserts during his McDonald’s experiment?]
Spurlock’s an idiot. He drank super-size Cokes and ate super-size fries, then put the blame on the meat and cheese and the bread. He didn’t isolate his variables – as required by the scientific method. To prove that fast food is fattening, you’d have to reduce the meal to its essential basics – meat, cheese, and bread. Other foods should be eliminated, like french fries and flavored drinks. Water should be the only beverage. Then see if you’re gaining weight and vomiting after meals in the parking lot. I’ve eaten Taco Bell and Wendy’s and White Castle and Burger King and McDonald’s without vomiting at all. My digestion is perfect if I do not eat the fries or the sodas.
[It’s funny to think that the idea of eating healthy has come full circle, right back to the starting point of actually eating fast food.]
I want to eat at this restaurant down in Arizona called the Heart Attack Grill. I would get their quadruple by-pass burger with no Coke and no fries and I wouldn’t have any fear of getting sick or gaining a single pound of weight. I might even eat their french fries, because they’re cooked in lard instead of soybean oil or Crisco like most chains use.
“If the fries were cooked in healthy fats such as coconut oil or tallow would you still consider them an item to be avoided?”
I would prefer fries cooked in tallow or coconut oil, but I might eat the fries at the Heart Attack Grill cooked in lard. I would recommend they use coconut oil just so they have all the saturated fat “food groups” – beef, dairy, and coconut. They are undoubtedly healthier fries, though. I just would rather them be cooked in a more stable fat.
“Can you explain your rationale behind thinking that a Mexican coke (cane sugar) would be better than American coke (HFCS)?”
The ratio of fructose to glucose is 22% worse in HFCS than in sucrose. The total amount is 10% worse. These are not minor differences. They’re both unhealthy, but sugar is less pathological.
“You’ve mentioned your breakfast protein coming from sausage on more than one occasion (and eggs). I’m assuming that the sausage is pork, a meat that you’ve generally eschewed in the past due to its high PUFA content.”
I eat small amounts of pork and eggs. In general, I eat more beef and dairy fats. I’m just experimenting to see the result of different proteins and fats.
This is all a BIG SCAM! Don’t you guys see what’s going on? Bruce and Matt are the greatest new marketing tool of the fast food industry! They were hired by the fast food industry as professionals, to “prove” that fast food is somehow healing and can be eaten safely in excess. They have first gained the trust of people by appearing scientific, analyzing everything, questioning everything, discussing every aspect of diet. Now they have reached stage 2 of the plan: promote what the fast food industry has planned for the future = an increase in burger production and subsequent sales, with a decrease production/sale of soft drinks and french fries (corn and potato crops are planned to be decreased in the future in USA).
Their logic is so advanced, they use so many variables and dispute all conventional knowledge (such as the widely held facts that high calorie is bad, fast food is bad, starch is bad, organic is good, raw is good) that they have truly 180’d this one. You guys are the masterminds.. How much are you getting paid and who are you working for?
Be on the look out for Matt’s propaganda documentary which will coming out soon, “proving” how you can get healthy on fast food. This is produced purely for the fast food industry, purely for profit.
Just like you said Bruce, Question Everything.
Anyone know where I can find some pictures of Bruce?
What the F. Do you have proof or any rational ideas to back that up?
Hi again –
for Chloe – yeah I was on a 1400 Kcal diet fully equipped with periods of b/p (binge/purge) and couldn’t see a way out. That was 3 and half years ago. The day I started stuffing myself with protein/fat ended the purging episodes – haven’t had one since. As for diet makeup – well before it was bread/fish/fruit/veg and then after going hf/lc it was meat/dairy/veg. I didn’t ‘cheat’ because I didn’t want to – I get around 2500Kcals low-carb – as long as I have dairy and tons of fat I’m ok – cut out the dairy and calories plummet as I’ve actually gone off meat a bit after trying out the VLC thing and not feeling the greatest. Glad to see I’m not the only one there.
Yeah I see there is a certain leap of faith that must be made re-introducing starches. I have been losing my faith in LC a little as initially it was all just dandy, but after a couple of years even the high fat content hasn’t really prevented a slowing of my metabolism. Don’t get me wrong – temps are fine and I’m not hypothyroid or anything – as far as I can tell, but a general ‘settling’ happened and now I feel a bit like a fat-magnet. So change has to come I think….difficult for an ex-bulimic but maybe the next stage of my recovery.
Don’t do well with vegetation – acne crops up on my chin shortly after eating veg, which gets cured when I cut it out. Green beans are the worst. Maybe I should just eat tons of veg or something according to Bruce’s theories? Or not.
I have to say the possibility of a no-restrictions diet (it is seriously not hard for me to avoid polys/fructose etc) is very enticing. So…watching with a lot of interest.
What does one do when ‘cheats’ are no longer enticing? I can’t actually think of a food I want that isn’t low-carb. Am I way too screwed up now?
“Be on the look out for Matt’s propaganda documentary which will coming out soon, “proving” how you can get healthy on fast food. This is produced purely for the fast food industry, purely for profit.”
Damm,I guess we should never underestimate the Hamburgler.
Forgot to say, my hubby eats whatever I cook (which usually involves at least a stick of butter – here a stick is 250g) plus a starch and is extremely lean. But then he’s always been lean – so I guess I just thought he has a flukey metabolism. Got me thinking maybe not though, as he gained fat when we were vegans a looong time ago (lasted for 6 months, after which I snaffled an entire roast chicken every night for a whole week).
Anonymous: “Their logic is so advanced, they use so many variables and dispute all conventional knowledge (such as the widely held facts that high calorie is bad, fast food is bad, starch is bad, organic is good, raw is good) that they have truly 180’d this one.”
Or maybe the “widely held facts” are all wrong and simply based on a correlation, like the nonsense peddled by Ancel Keys. Who paid Keys to proclaim that saturated fat is unhealthy and everyone should eat low-fat or rancid vegetable oils?
“You guys are the masterminds.. How much are you getting paid and who are you working for?”
If we were masterminds, we would get all the fast food restaurants to cook every thing in coconut oil, beef suet, and mac nut oil, get rid of the soft drinks and diet sodas and coffee and tea and sugar laden milk shakes and desserts. We wish we were master-minds enough to pull off a coup like that. You don’t have to eat fast food to eat high-fat, high-starch, high-protein, and high-calorie.
Also, I have noticed that my exercise is not as good without simple sugars. I had eaten only brown rice, eggs, butter, and pork sausage with no MSG or sugar. I got slight muscle soreness after walking and climbing stairs. This has never happened when I was eating natural sugars. I have only been eating starches with teaspoons of unheated honey occasionally after the meals. Maybe I need to up the sugars and reduce the starches some.
Wow, yeah, Matt and Bruce are a marketing scheme, that’s why Matt said this,
“I’ll always advocate a whole foods diet with natural ingredients to keep that from happening in the first place (no habitual refined foods, stimulants, etc.).”
They’re just trying to make a point that it’s not as simple as whether a cow is grass fed or not; or if that’s something to necessarily make a top priority; same for any supplements like cod liver oil (seems like they’d be a more apparent form of marketing scheme if you ask me).
Maybe you were joking; at least I hope so..haha
Now for the other Anonymo
Yeah, trust me, I think I’m pretty messed up too. Just from ‘bad luck’ as a kid; ate the same things as my siblings (sept maybe more) and had way more weight then them. For some reason I never got sick as often (but that may have been from some kind of therapy I went through after I was born; I have to ask my dad about that, because I’m totally interested in whatever they injected me with may have done). Though, I was a huge fan of butter (even if it did end up in copious amounts on a poptart).
Don’t you think 1400 calories could have had an effect on metabolism? That’s probably what slowed it down; especially if condoning in bingeing and purging – definitely a wish to confuse your insides..hormones..metabolism and what not. But hey, after being informed of Broda Barnes, it’s not crazy to think your thyroid could be affected the slightest bit if you’re feeling like you’re attracting fat lately. After adding in more carbs lately, I do think they’re necessary to really heal – just from what I’ve seen happen so far; only been like 10 days, but still. I’m not going all out like Bruce – just Schwarzbein/Stone recommendations. Seems safe for now. I also have the same problem with acne; though I’m not really sure what causes it – pretty sure it’s just the hormones not being balanced out completely yet.
You have to remember you have healed your body with numerous diets (primal diet, raw paleo diet, zero carb, raw meat, low PUFA, low starch, high SFA) before doing your current fast food/processed food experiment. I think that’s the reason you are responding so well, don’t you?
But if you keep the burger/ice cream/pizza/pasta in your diet, even weekly, I think it might lead to some of the problems you started with. Maybe, though, your elimination of PUFA’s and your specic starch:sugar ratio (which I don’t fully understand yet, you seem to be changing it) will keep good health.. Maybe PUFA’s are the greatest factors and should be avoided, and, enriched/bleached white flour and ground grain-fed hormone-fed beef aren’t as poisonous as some people make them to be.
I have to say that your approach hasn’t worked for me: I have always only eaten the burger without fries or soda at fast food restaurants, and even then my digestion got wrecked with time, to the point where I was bloated, tired, constipated every day. (But I also ate pizza, pasta, and oats, high fiber, and often over-ate.. Interestingly enough, never gained any weight… But it wrecked my digestion that’s for sure).
If this is not all a joke, Bruce, please keep us informed of your progress and experiences along the way. And it would be nice if you could make a post explaining in detail how you have gotten to this point where you can eat these foods (did you just start binging them 1 or 2 times per week in huge quantities? Did it produce some bad effects the first couple of times, but then you got accustomed to it?..
“You have to remember you have healed your body with numerous diets (primal diet, raw paleo diet, zero carb, raw meat, low PUFA, low starch, high SFA) before doing your current fast food/processed food experiment. I think that’s the reason you are responding so well, don’t you?”
Maybe. But others are also responding. A lot of people here have said they could eat burgers, pizza, tacos, and things on occasion and not gain weight or have any digestive problems, if they’re traveling or with friends or whatever.
“I have to say that your approach hasn’t worked for me: I have always only eaten the burger without fries or soda at fast food restaurants, and even then my digestion got wrecked with time, to the point where I was bloated, tired, constipated every day.”
What did you drink? Water or diet sodas? My digestion is perfect. It did seem to suffer a bit from the meal of rice, egg, sausage, and butter – perhaps due to the PUFA content of the eggs and sausage. I have much better digestion from burgers and beef cheese tacos and bean burritos. Maybe there are tweaks you could make, like drinking distilled water to balance the high salt and enriched flour in fast food, small amounts of unheated honey to help digestion, etc.
I believe the body adapts to challenges. When it’s pushed too far, equilibrium is lost and health declines. But the proper challenges can strengthen your health to a level you have never known. And it has in my experience. I can eat whole grains in large amounts, be perfectly satisfied by them, and have perfect digesiton and elimination after them. It doesn’t make any difference now if they’re fermented, sprouted or just normal yeast bread. My digestion and energy are rock solid and nothing can shake them except perhaps a massive amount of PUFAs (pork and birds and eggs are a little harder on me than beef and dairy, but not much).
Sounds like there’s alot of pressure on Bruce to get his own blog!
Chloe, I was blessed with mild acne too, since I was about 14 i think? I can’t get it to clear either and it’s starting to worry me. At first I thought it was a zinc deficiency because of 5 years of solid vegetarianism followed by 2 years of anorexia, but even when eating lots of zinc rich foods consistently, nothing happens :(
So it’s got to be something else, and I’m determined to find it. Weight wise, after I added in carbs again 2 weeks ago (potatoes mostly, but it’s getting boring) after about 2 months of a FUMP-like diet, my weight plateau FINALLY stopped and I’m losing again now. What’s been your experience with following Schwarzbein? It sounds like you’ve known about it for alot longer than I have and I was just wondering…
“Did it produce some bad effects the first couple of times, but then you got accustomed to it?”
I haven’t noticed any problems. There is an odd feeling in my left hand and a few other places, but these might be because of old injuries. Maybe they will heal on this new plan. Who knows. I’ve eaten the cccasional fast food in the past, but I always threw away the bread and avoided the fries and soft drinks, due to being afraid of eating too many carbs. Then I read Matt say that he could eat 4 bacon double cheese burgers with the buns and not gain weight, I started thinking. If he can do that, maybe I can too. So the rest is history. Now I have confidence that my efforts have paid off, whereas before there were just minor benefits I could name. Nothing as radical as this. Now I feel like I could eat anything in good health, because I would know how I got here and the future is wide open to more experimentation and growth.
Same here; maybe around 13. Yeah I was thinking the same thing – except I would think B12 and other B vitamins that might have been the problem. Supplements just go right through me though; specially B supplements. Eating fruit made acne a lot worse (and I think this could be saying something about what it did to my hormones too – I kind of look at it as a form of anorexia, since, I was pretty much scared of fat and obsessed with exercise; even if I did eat a ton of fruit).
I’m also determined; I pretty much added carbs as mostly potatoes, too haha, and I stopped bloating as bad and finally started digesting better (but I also cut back on meat; my wittle system can’t take a lot just yet – since veganism – kind of learned this the hard way). I pretty much read Schwarzbein’s books..some time around February. I steadily started raising carbs after reading them. I know my temperature’s gone up a lot within days of starting up (most of) her program for real (she suggests some things like flax oil and raw vegetables, but, I don’t quite agree they’re too important). Basically I just think her ratios are what are the most important thing. I’m still pretty much warming up to it; the stories in it are really good, really convincing. Those, and Matt, have just helped me to think really simplistically at the time being because I really really think that the hormone problems are stems of lots of things (like acne, weight, etc.) because they effect so many things. And focusing on simply eating enough carbs and for right now, a controlled amount of protein (because of digestion), and whatever fat to be satisfied should bring even more results, or at least, I’m waiting to see. If these results keep getting better and better, and after I can add the meat again and get used to that and so on, then is when someone might get more nitpicky – like, maybe starting to eat more saturated fat over any other fats for the most part – like what Ray Peat talks about. But that’s after things seem sorted out for the most part. I figure to just stick with one person’s suggestions for now, not be too experimental, and then after the storm seems cleared, to delve more into I guess “further” things that seem to have potential.
“Damm, I guess we should never underestimate the Hamburgler.”
LOL. Anonymous has come up with the best conspiracy theory I’ve ever heard. He is so imaginative, he should create a novel about how Matt and I concocted this most amazing scheme. The simplest explanation is that Matt and I have healed ourselves to a level that is unheard of OR that it is a general rule, with some exceptions.
We would need more data to say for sure, but Charles Washington is very confident that carbs make him fat. Hell, eating an egg or a piece of cheese with his meat’s enough to make him gain weight – much to his consternation. And Michael Eades has said that most people’s metabolism slows down with age and they have to eat lower carbs and/or fat and/or calories. Matt’s the antithesis to that mindset and so am I. He shows that tou can maintain weight on a high-carb diet, and I show that you can lose on an even higher carb diet. My carb intake in one meal can be as big as Matt’s carbs for the whole day and yet I am losing weight steadily and have not a trace of bloating or gas or indigestion, even eating up to 14g of fiber per meal. If we haven’t healed, I would be totally shocked. I don’t think everyone could do what I do right away, but they could get there eventually with effort.
Maybe Matt and I are freaks of nature or have some parasite that’s eating all the food and giving us perfect digestion and health on a high-carb diet, but the odds are against it. Maybe we’re wrong that a diet high in refined sugar makes people fat and artificial sweeteners make them hungry and fried food filled with trans fat makes you fat. We could be wrong on this. Maybe some people could be healthy eating sodas like Don “Mac Daddy” Gorske but avoiding fries. Maybe some could be healthy eating fries but avoiding sodas. Anything’s possible, I guess.
Before I leave this lovely blog to go watch the new south park episode on my TiVo –
To Bruce: What constitutes “perfect digestion” for you? Is it just simply no bloating/gas? If you don’t mind me asking, on what diet did your digestion start to improve? (I know there have been alot.) Personally, my digestion always feels 100% better when there is 1g of fiber or less per meal, but I want to bump up my digestion to a higher level. Any advice?
To Chloe: Wow, we’re really in the same boat! I feel like supplements have no effect on my either – maybe due to malabsorption? It seems like a logical conclusion, given my history. If I do have malabsorption issues though, I do not know how to fix it. I’ve been trying to stick with a simple diet too for the past 1/2 year…I love eating simply and making my own meals, it’s such a good hobby! Right now the ratio is high saturated fat, moderate protein, low carb, zero sugar/processed/trans fats. If the higher carb stint goes well for you, then I might raise the carbs even more. This weekend I’m going to a raw dairy farm called Apple Valley Creamery in PA (long drive…) To load up on some raw dairy just for the carb purpose. Please keep me updated on yo progress!!
heres a good story,
Back when i was 19 i moved here, north county san diego, with my then girlfriend. i was in the best shape of my life from 19 to 21. We lived right near the ocean, i had just gotten into the health thing then. Things i always knew, was not to avoid animal food, and don’t eat refined sugar or fried food. I had already stopped drinking soda my sophmore year of hight school because i knew it was bringing me down and i wanted to focus and graduate.
So with that basic knowledge, and care free attitude i had back then, when we would go out to eat i would not eat anything fried or sodas, and back then i had not grown an addiction to coffee yet. That means when we would go to in n out burger i would just have the burger with no sugar or fries and some water. When we would go to a Rubios tauqaria shack i would just have a bean and cheese burrioto or beef in it and no soda or chips. My girlfriend had just got into italian cooking then to, so at home we would make pasta with cream sauces and meat. I also worked at subway, so we would eat free sandwiches from there, but again no soda or occasional the baked chips with it. I also didn’t touch alcohol back in these days. Periodically we would go out for ice cream or a dessert and watch the sunset.
During this time, we were in the sun everyday… whenever we could be at the beach we were there. I surfed whenever it was good, and when it was bad we would lift weights together at the ymca, maybe once or two times a week. We would body surf all the time and play frisbee on the beach. We would go to sleep around 10pm or 11pm and wake up at 7am. We were glowing and happy all the time. I never worried about diet. My acne went away in those times. I wasn’t a slave to coffee yet.
After a few years i decided i wanted to move to austin, tx. I really got into health then also…. i started trying to eat the so called health foods. This is what happened… I started trying to get more veggies in my diet… more fish oil, more nuts and seeds,.. my acne came back! I started feeling more tired, my sex drive went down. I thought i needed to eat more salads, i needed to take vitamins, and supplements. I tried atkins, it didn’t do anything for my acne. I was still lean and muscular, but i just didn’t feel right. I started drinking more, and then i started drinking coffee to get through my hangovers. I decided I wasn’t happy there, and i couldn’t surf, so i moved to portland, or. Things changed here… i was still studying nutrition and health on my own extensively through all this, also me and my girlfriend broke up, because i just wasn’t the same person anymore, i was obsessed with nutrition and i wasn’t getting any better with all this health food.
In portland, i took coffee drinking to a new level, drinking microbrew to a new level, but i was starting to be alittle more easy going with my diet… so i was eating starch with my food again. I also found out that saturated fat was king, and i started using butter liberally on everything, i also started using coconut oil as my only cooking oil. I started feeling way better. I was still in pretty good shape but not like i was when i was living in cali. So decided to try low carbing, a few times. At first i would lose wieght fast, but then a couple weeks later i would start getting cravings and binge badly and gain it all back and more wieght… then i would tell myself i was strict enough and try it again a month later… yo yoing way to much. I also was drinking way to much coffee and beer. Then one day at work i asked myself when i was the healthiest in my life, i didn’t care about diet, i was never scared of saturated fat, i never drank coffee or aclohol, i didn’t care about low carbing or dieting, and it was when i was in cali.
So i moved back here 3 months ago. I quit drinking coffee and alcohol!!! I know saturated fat is king, and i eat lots of it, i don’t low carb, i eat as much starch as i want, i still don’t drink sodas or eat fried food in PUFA’s, and i get shit loads of sun, and surfing, and i follow the body by science lifting protocol…. lifting once or twice a week intensely. I still go meet up with friends occasionally for beers, but i don’t get wasted. I have treats like ice cream every once in awhile, and i never binge on anything. I even eat fast food like bruce does and i don’t have any problems. And i lost wieght and i feel and look as good as i did when i was 19!!!! Although i have more lean muscle and i can just feel how much more bone density i have!!! And the mild acne is gone again. I don’t worry about eating out, eating veggies, staying low carb, and i feel great again!!
Saturated fat is king, starch keeps me happy and energized, the sun make me happy and sleep well, surfing and swimming in the ocean is the perfect workout. Life is good again… now if i could figure out how to get rid of the chemtrails in the sky so the sun could come through bright again…
Harper: [To Bruce: What constitutes “perfect digestion” for you? Is it just simply no bloating/gas? If you don’t mind me asking, on what diet did your digestion start to improve? (I know there have been alot.) Personally, my digestion always feels 100% better when there is 1g of fiber or less per meal, but I want to bump up my digestion to a higher level. Any advice?]
Not just no bloating or gas, but feeling empty instead of full. It’s difficult to describe. I used to be in the same boat, where I had to limit fiber. One thing I did before was eating a lot of fiber and no fat, like sun-dried raisins, lots of oranges or grapefruits, etc. I found my digestion could tolerate more fiber with no fat in the way. Also I would eat like a piece of sourdough spelt bread with no butter. Maybe those things helped, but I think what pushed me over the edge was a diet with unlimited starch (70-150g per meal), unlimited fat and protein (30-60g of each per meal, at least). My off the wall suggestion would be to eat a lot of Taco Bell bean burritos with just water and no other food. Don’t put any sauces on the burrito. Just eat it as it comes. Go for a walk and get all the sun you’re able to. Sleep 8 hours a night and don’t wake to an alarm clock. Maybe just high starch intake alone would heal you. Just eat a ridiculous amount of starch, like 3-4 potatoes at least, covered in butter and with some meat too.
That was a really nice story :)I’m jealous of your life.
I agree with everything you said about diet, and that’s what I’m trying to do now! I wish I could get as much sun as you can – I live in D.C. and we have shitty weather; but this fall I’m leaving for my university in Florida, so I know I’m going to be assaulted with UV rays soon enough, I hope it helps my body function overall, nooo sunscreen.
Because of the whole vegetarianism thing, I think it will probably take longer for my body and skin to heal even on an ideal diet because I’m basically trying to reverse many years of poor nutrition. On top of that, I messed my hormones up with birth control for 3 years (I wasn’t taking it for my skin though…)
If I could, I’d make you a magical chem trail eraser!
to get my skin really nice, i get lots of sunlight of course, eat tons of butter and coconut oil, I think the salt water has something to do with it also, i don’t use soap very often when i shower, i don’t wash my face, and after i am done surfing or swimming, i usually rub a mix of coconut oil and 100% aloe gel all over my face and body…. my skin is glowing, and clear as can be.
Actually before leaving work i bought some raw cream, and this girl i work with was nagging me how nasty that was, thought i was into healthfood from the way i looked. I told her that this cream was going to go into my skin and keep it extra soft and healthy like it is. She still brainwashed into thinking saturated fat is evil…. I am 26 and she thought i was around 20 when she first met me, and couldn’t believe how young i looked.
EAt your fat. and don’t put sunscreen on.
“EAt your fat. and don’t put sunscreen on. “
Thankfully I do both of those and don’t plan to stop. Thanks for the rest of the advice; coconut oil is definitely one of the best moisturizers I’ve ever tried.
[What does one do when 'cheats' are no longer enticing? I can't actually think of a food I want that isn't low-carb. Am I way too screwed up now?]
I think eating tons of starch and weekly binges on sugar fixed my metabolism to a degree that is unimaginable. I expect an even greater advance in my health coming this weekend when I eat a pound of fresh comb honey all at once (like 250-300g of sugars). This type of treatment has such great therapeutic potential that I can't believe I didn't think of it sooner. Tim Ferriss was a weenie with his low-fat & low-calorie diet. I could transform just as radically as him eating white rice & butter and meat and potatoes and totally avoiding whole grains, beans, etc. But I could also eat the whole grains and the beans with a ton of fat and protein and get exactly the same results. Tim let himself be brainwashed by the low-fat, low-calorie, low-glycemic nonsense. The glycemic index of a carbohydrate has absolutely nothing to do with whether or not it's fattening. You could eat 15 potatoes a day and lose weight if your metabolism was healthy and you needed to lose weight. You could also maintain a healthy weight by eating 15 potatoes a day. Anyone who can't acknowledge that possibility is deluded and living lies.
How old are you Bruce? I wonder if your method could work for the 40+ set.
EAt your fat. and don’t put sunscreen on.
This is so true, I am in CHI. and get little sun.Last week I was in the south and spent all day in the sun.Coworkers kept telling me I was going to burn. I got red for a day but no burn or peeling.
“Before I leave this lovely blog to go watch the new south park episode on my TiVo -“
HAHA I did the same thing!
Half Navajo (by the way, I read about Navajos in my Anthropology course), that wAS a good story :) I don’t use sunscreen either – lately if I do go on walks, and the sun is out, it does not take much to get tan. When I was vegan I would always burn before any tan (especially with fruit – except it was even hard to get practically any color doing that).
So yeah, Harper, we are in the same boat. Yeah I’m going to see how a lot more carbs turns out, and I will definitely let you know. I was thinking about malabsorption as well; but I’m holding off all my theories for a bit just so I can see what being simple does (H-N’s case, it seemed to work the best – not really having limits, seems to be what will heal most; and like Bruce talks about, maybe just eating more carbs is the key). I get my raw dairy from PA too. I would definitely drive out there if I could! have fun
there is another anon here – not just me! I think I’d better get a name.
Chloe I did do about a year without any vegetation at all (80% animal fat) and my acne cleared. Could be something like phytates/oxalates maybe? Fruit was awful. I used to suffer from atopic eczema which eventually covered my whole body after trying out a fruitarian diet, then a vegan one. HF/LC totally cleared this up in about a year. Definitely the fat.
Regarding tea and coffee – I do drink them, but find that tea is relaxing whereas coffee is stimulating. I’m English – wonder if it is at all practical to try to give up tea due to this!
Yeah soap is really bad for me too. I gave up using it a long time ago and found substitutes for the pits – my face won’t take being washed with anything but water/washcloth – much better now.
I was thinking back to my vegan days – on MacDougall. Horrible health and skin of course – felt much better once I started taking taurine capsules and fish oil – I wouldn’t take fish oil now, but then I don’t have to anyway.
But as I recall I did gain fat on that diet. Lost muscle and gained fat. BUT, I did at least have enough energy for intense workouts – but not much strength. I wonder if doing low-fat high carb puts on fat, but high fat, high carb, high protein does the opposite? This is what Bruce is finding. I’d like to believe that.
“The glycemic index of a carbohydrate has absolutely nothing to do with whether or not it’s fattening. You could eat 15 potatoes a day and lose weight if your metabolism was healthy and you needed to lose weight. You could also maintain a healthy weight by eating 15 potatoes a day. Anyone who can’t acknowledge that possibility is deluded and living lies.”
This is like challenging the new conventional wisdom, again. Meat,starch,fat and water does not sound to bad. At least you can come with some different combos to keep it interesting.
“How old are you Bruce? I wonder if your method could work for the 40+ set.”
Mid-30s. But I have had poor digestion and health in the past and improved it greatly with low-fiber, low-PUFA diet. I probably would have improved faster by bingeing on starches (at least 50-150g per meal) and weekly sugar binges (a whole pint of H-D ice cream a week, quarts of orange juice and grape juice, pancakes drenched with maple syrup and butter, unheated honey).
Jack Lallane on sugar
LA LANNE: Well, it is. It’s so simple — you know, people — you know, there are so many books out on nutrition out. They’re so complicated. You’ve got don’t eat the carbohydrates and the starch together, don’t eat the fat and the sugar together. How about a walnut? How about a piece of grain? It’s got fat in it, it’s got sugar, and it’s got protein. It’s got everything.
If nature didn’t want you to have all these things in combination, but somebody has got to sell a book. They say, oh, all vegetables and all fruit. And the poor average person out there, they’re so confused, they don’t know which way to go. KING: So the simplest way is…
LA LANNE: If man made it, don’t eat it. You know, just think about it.
KING: If man makes it…
LA LANNE: Don’t eat it.
KING: Don’t eat it.
LA LANNE: You know, man fools around with everything: the air you’re breathing, the water you drink, the grains. Practically all your grains now, somebody — they take all the bran out and they put preservatives in them, all this white sugar and all these soft drinks.
I’m not condemning anything, but we could take all these wonderful things and supplement them with something that’s going to be good for the people.
KING: What do you eat for pleasure? What tastes great?
LA LANNE: If — you know how I trained myself? I was the biggest sugar-holic in this world up to 15. And I got it in my brain, because I have this ego — I wanted to build a Mr. America-type body. I wanted to be an athlete. I wanted to be handsome. I wanted the girls to like me. So I figured I had to earn that. And I figured that any foods that I put in my body that’s going to take away from my strength and my energy in my body, I created a dislike for it.
What can you taste? Only sweet and sour. So when I eat something, I say, what is it doing for me? My energy, my vitality, my sex life, my hair, my skin. What’s it doing for Jack La Lanne?
You’ve got to be selfish about these things. Then I create a liking for it. And that’s what (UNINTELLIGIBLE) to do.
KING: So you then say to yourself sugar — this is bad, this is bad, this is bad, I won’t eat it?
LA LANNE: Absolutely, right on the button. You don’t have to be a nut about this. People can they — if they want to have a little drink once in a while, they want to have a little ice cream or a little — it isn’t what you do once in a while. It’s what you do all the time.
Scott: “This is like challenging the new conventional wisdom, again. Meat,starch,fat and water does not sound to bad. At least you can come with some different combos to keep it interesting.”
The conventional wisdom needs to be torn down, like Matt said. Low-fat, low-carb, low-calorie, and vegetarian diets aren’t healthy. The typical diets high in sugar and vegetable oils and white flour are a disaster. But white flour’s the least of the evils. You could improve your health immensely eating 50-150g of starch from white flour at every single meal, along with a ton of saturated fat and protein. The same probably can’t be said for some one eating 50-150g of refined sugar at a meal, unless they eat it dry.
Dieting disables and debilitates people. Death to all the diet gurus who promote cutting out food groups and not cutting out the real problem: refined sugar and rancid vegetable oils and other garbage.
Jack LaLanne: “People can — if they want to have a little drink once in a while, they want to have a little ice cream or a little — it isn’t what you do once in a while. It’s what you do all the time.”
Matt said the exact same thing verbatim. I’m also convinced that mild occasional stresses (like eating a pint of Haagen Dazs once a week or a few desserts) can heal you to an extent that eating clean food all the time never can.
I think J”came up with the perfect title for the diet Matt and I preach – the bad medicine diet. Eat high-starch, high-fat, high-protein, and high-calories during the week (totally opposite to mainstream diet theories), then eat even more calories on the weekend by bingeing on maple syrup and butter covered pancakes, high cream ice cream, fruit juice, unheated honey, and desserts like cheesecake. Again contrary to every diet that says these foods are fattening and disease-causing. Then watch your weight go down and all your health markers improve, your digestion become perfect, your energy level rock solid, your mind more focused, etc.
Here’s to the Bad Medicine Diet. What do you say, Matt? Catchy title?
I use to envy my best friend… i thought he had an amazing metabolism. We would go out to eat together and i would get a hamburger without the bun, salad on the side, no beer. He would get a burger with the bun and a beer. He would stay the same weight or even lose weight, i would feel unsatisfied and didn’t lose any weight. I would study my ass off about nutrition and tell him any of my new ideas or findings. He adapted to just making sure not to be afraid of saturated fat, so he used liberal amounts of butter, coconut oil, beef fat, bacon, but still ate his high starch way. He loves italian food, so he loves pasta and cream sauces. He lost wieght like nothing, and he would drink his fair share of beer!!! I wouldn’t eat the starch or the beer and my wieght just seemed to stall on low carb. The only time my friend would gain weight is when he would move back in with his parents, and his mom would make sweets all day everyday, cakes, pies, cookies, all made with vegetable oils, and refined sugars, and then he would get depressed and move back out with me where ever i was, and within a month lose all the wieght he had gained by following his usual diet without all the sugar, PUFA’s, and stress of living with the fam.
I am glad i stumbled upon Schwarzbein and matt stones blog and started adding in starch with every meal like i use too…. and also to bruces amazing commentary on everything!
life is soooo good again, i can’t explain it!
also…. when he would lose all the weight in a months time…. it would be like 20 pounds all gone. When he would move back in with me he would eat the same way as me, just with all his pasta and bread that he likes. I would just look at him and frown when he ate pasta loaded with alfredo sauce and beef… i just though he had a naturally high metabolism… oh how stupid i was to torture myself with low carbing.
I just ate pasta with pesto sauce and lots of butter, shrimp fried in coconut oil…. perfect digestion, no bloating, and i slept like a baby!
that is awesome
“Here’s to the Bad Medicine Diet. What do you say, Matt? Catchy title?”
I am rereading Matt’s old post’s, I see what you and he are driving at. Now I see why he calls this blog the 180.
Congrats on Bucking the LC Monkey,Pasta is a huge hurdle.
I’ve been working on a theory to explain this. What I think is that the body just gets rid of stuff it doesn’t need unless your diet is full of junk like sugar and vegetable oils. That’s why people can do high-everything and have the same weight loss as zero-carb or better, The body is getting what it needs. It just burns off the excess carbs. Things change when you eat a low-fat (or high PUFA) low-protein high-carb diet. The calorie theories are nonsense and the low-carb theory that you can’t lose weight without depleting glycogen is nonsense, too. I’m pretty sure I’m not depleting glycogen on a diet with 3,000+ Calories and 200g of starch or more, plus some milk and raw honey. If your diet has what you need to be healthy, calories don’t count. If it doesn’t, they count a lot. All the rules of diet have gone out the window in my mind as I lost weight and improved my digestion 100-fold eating huge amounts of starch, fat, and protein.
Bruce do you think it’s possible to get the same positive results using Sugar instead of Starch?
Example: eating 75-150 grams of sugar (like unheated honey or orange juice) together with 60 grams of protein and 60 grams of fat.
Or do you think fructose is a factor here?
Or does there have to be a minimum/maximum ratio between sugar:starch
So far you have said the ratio of sugar:starch has to be high, now you are saying it is better for a high starch:sugar ratio. What’s the deal?
Honey or maple syrup might work for some people, but juices might cause excessive urination if you ate 75-150g of carbs. I think I have healed my body far more now than Matt, because he has problems with fiber and I can eat 14g of fiber for one meal now and have perfect digestion, no bloating, and no pain. I'm going to try to get my fiber up to 30-60g per meal in combination with high-fat & high-protein just to prove that I can do it with zero problems whatsoever. I just had 2 small stools after a day with maybe 50g fiber, 250g starch, 50g sugar, 120g of protein, and 150g of fat. Can Matt do that with no digestive problems? Probably not. But he's almost there, IMO. He could heal to that point in weeks or months from where his health is at right now.
A healthy person could eat unlimited fat protein starch sugar fiber with perfect digestion, no bloating, no gas, no brain fog, no weight gain, small & soft bowel movements, etc. All the rules of eating low-fat, low-carb, low-fiber, low-sugar, and so forth can go right out the window for a person who is 100% healthy. And I am almost there. Maybe 90-95% of the way right now. And Matt is 80% there. He can stun the world by eating a diet high in everything – starch, fiber, fat, sugars, protein, and calories.
Just an aside …
Anyone seen the documentary “Fathead” that is a response to Spurlock’s “Supersize Me”?
Seems to be applicable to this discussion …
OMFG, you are not going to believe it. I am down 9 pounds from what I weighed 2.5 weeks ago. This in spite of eating 3,000 Calories and 300g of carbs a day (250 or more grams of starch and the rest sugars from raw honey and pasteurized milk). My metabolism is firing on all cylinders in spades. Let me mention some of the other benefits. I can drink a lot of water and not get bloated or have heavy urination. This is a totally new experience.
Something else I should mention that may be relevant. One of the only things I am using that may be called a supplement is activated charcoal powder once or twice a week mixed with water. Maybe that was part of what helped restore my digestion but I think it's mainly the high starch intake and nothing else. I could likely eat high starch sugar fat protein fiber and calories with no weight gain and in fact continue losing weight. Unlike Matt I'm not afraid of sugars, but now I have no fear or starch or fiber either. I've overcome my problems almost completely & I expect to get even healthier from now on, thanks to this information. This has been the most rewarding blog experience in all of history. Matt is changing the world. He will be famoue.
I used to laugh at his braggodocio, but now I see that he can back it up. I just think he needs to see the potential for healing from massive sugar binges. Last week and the week before that, I ate a pint of Haagen Dazs in one sitting, and none the rest of the week. I ate lots of pancakes covered with butter and maple syrup. I drank fruit juice and ate lots of unheated honey. My energy level now is rock solid with no cravings and just perfect calm no matter what I eat. That healing can occur for Matt, too, and it is my mission to inspire him to heal it all the way so he can eat high-starches, high-sugars, high-fiber (50+g a day), a huge amount of fat, and enough protein, all at the same time, with astoundingly easy digestion and no weight gain. That is easilyt within his reach and perhaps many others as well. This is a historic blog, Matt. Your bragging is justified. This is going to change everything.
to add to my success with starch back in…. I just went surfing this morning right after eating a smoothie of some raw cream, raw milk, raw egg yolks, unsweetened coconut flakes, whole banana, carob powder, tapioca flour, and i wasn’t burping or belching out there at all!! Degestion was perfect. When i was low carbing and just eating eggs and bacon, coffee, or just drinking coffee and fasting in the morning i would be burping out there and not feeling as energized as i do now. I feel like i can do anything since i have added starch back in, and ditched the coffee and fasting. I just reinforce my diet with lots of saturated fat. Since adding in starch with all my saturated fat intake, my energy is even all day long, and i am so much more optimistic, and i can tell people just like being around way more…. DEATH TO THE DIET!!!!!!! i also had to in n out double double burgers after surfing!!!
same thing with me also bruce… i drink more water now without the bloating!!!
I think i am going to try eating high sugar once or twice a week like your saying.
You were right all along though bruce…. it is the PUFA’s+High fructose corn syrup refined sugar diet that makes you gain weight.
I still probably won’t eat a ton of fast food, but when I do… just ditch the soda, fried food, and coffee, and it should be fine. I just love cooking at home. Tonights going to be home made flour tortillas made with coconut oil, beans refried in coconut oil, cheese, and beef…..BURRITOS!!!!!
Bruce – what’s your theory on why weekly sugar binges are so healing? And I’m amazed that you can eat 50g + of fiber in one day, HOW on earth does this not impact your bowels and gut? Once metabolism is optimal, is fiber no longer a problem?
“I used to laugh at his braggodocio, but now I see that he can back it up.”
Hah!! I would be a brag-asaurus too if I had any of Matt’s knowledge.
“I still probably won’t eat a ton of fast food, but when I do… just ditch the soda, fried food, and coffee, and it should be fine. I just love cooking at home. Tonights going to be home made flour tortillas made with coconut oil, beans refried in coconut oil, cheese, and beef…..BURRITOS!!!!!”
Taco Bell bean burritos, soft tacos, and cheese roll-ups are the king of the fast food. Less than $3 for all 3. I’ve eaten those several times in the last few days and my digestion was awesome. Calories – 750. Fat – 28g. Protein – 33g. Carbs – 93g. Sugars – 7g. Fiber – 12g. And don’t forget that I can just as easily digest whole wheat bread (sprouted, fermented, or normal yeast bread) like 3-4 pieces at a time, covered with butter, and with a piece of cheese and some honey.
Every diet guru from Taubes to Eades to Kwasniewski to Groves goes right out the window when your metabolism is restored to the level of a healthy child. I’m not going to rest on my laurels, either. I’m going to keep pushing myself. This week, 14g of fiber in a meal. Next week 30g in a meal. The next week, 60g in a meal and tons of fat and protein and sugars along with the fiber. It’s a struggle to eat stuff like brown rice and whole grain bread, not because of digestion, but I just get satisfied really quick by them. I’m literally force-feeding myself with brown rice and sourdough spelt bread and stuff like that. It’s much easier to eat white flour tacos and bean burritos.
I’m facing all my challenges and they’re falling away like a house of cards. Matt and Troy and I are pioneers in the land of true metabolic healing, where the end goal is being able to eat the high every thing diet (fat, starch, sugar, protein, fiber, and calories) with great health. Aajonus Vonderplanitz is lost in futile efforts, along with Charles Washington, Geoffrey Purcell, and others. The best healing diet is fast food, lasagna and pizza, ice cream, pancakes covered with butter and maple syrup, potatoes fried in coconut oil, rice bathed in butter, etc. Matt for President. Cheers to the High Everything Diet. All Hail the new rules of healthy eating!
Bruce, I’m happy to see that there are people like you willing to challenge conventional dietary wisdom and engage in self-experimentation, but that a diet high in refined starches and high in sugars could be healthy long-term strikes me as incredibly suspicious. After all, most starches are very recent contributions to our food supply evolutionary speaking. More generally, most paleontologists contend that carbohydrates of any sort were not in abundant supply at any point over several hundred thousands of years. Gorging on foods we’ve likely not fully adapted to eating on a regular basis seems analogous to stuffing up on the modern atrocities of food processing industry, or even filling up a car with vegetable oil instead of gasoline. by this line of reasoning, just as cars aren’t designed to run on vegetable oil, we probably have not evolved to run efficiently on modern processed foods or even excessive amounts of unprocessed carbohydrates (especially starches).
While it seems perfectly conceivable to me that subjecting one’s body to acute, isolated carb binges could jumpstart metabolism or yield health improvements, I’m finding it very difficult to accept that habitually high levels of carbohydrate intake (hundreds of grams per day), regardless its source, could be healthy habitually.
Perhaps I’ve been mislead by the paleo folks with regard to the actual diet of early humans or over the amount of time it takes for humans to adapt biochemically to a new food group, but if you agree with these anthropological/ evolutionary tenets, I find it hard to understand how you could reach the conclusion that binging regularly on grains and starches could be part of a healthy, long-term diet.
Also, just for clarification sake: Mat and Bruce, if sugar and refined carbohydrates are not, per say, the cause of obesity and health deterioration, what is (dietary speaking, as clearly lifestyle factors such as sleep, sulight and activity are also important)? Clearly you both take issue with polyunsaturated fats, and to a lesser extent with high levels of fructose (especially when mixed with starches), but do these two factors alone account for all, or even most cases of obesity and diet related illness. I personally know plenty of obese individuals who eat little sugar and little polyunsaturated fats and I also know plenty of lean individuals who indulge in both of these eating habits.
At the very least, Bruce, I feel it may behoove you to hold off on making definitive declarations over the merits of high carbohydrate consumption before waiting to see how the new diet affects your body longer term.
Just my two cents.
“Bruce – what’s your theory on why weekly sugar binges are so healing?”
It totally reverses insulin resistance, IMO, esp combined with a high starch fat and protein diet. Bloating from water is caused by insulin resistance, as is the frequent urination when you drink a lot of water. Now I can drink lots of water, juice, milk, and so forth without having any bloating or excess urination. It is like a 180 change from a few weeks ago.
“And I’m amazed that you can eat 50g + of fiber in one day, HOW on earth does this not impact your bowels and gut? Once metabolism is optimal, is fiber no longer a problem?”
Like Matt said, the metabolism controls bowel transit, stool size, etc. There’s no reason you can’t eat 50g of fiber in a meal if you’re healthy and have great digestion like drinking water.
“Hah!! I would be a brag-asaurus too if I had any of Matt’s knowledge.”
He’s definitely the man. He deserves to brag, but I want to see him completely healed. He has said things like mixing starch and sugar is bad. I don’t think 100% healthy people would have problems eating butter and honey with fatty meat and potatoes and beans. He can heal to where he can eat high-everything. He is almost there, within sight of the goal. And when he can do that, the world will be at his feet. He will get a $5 million advance for writing a book all about it. He will get $100 million to make a movie documentary. He will do it all. You’re witnessing history right here and now.
Bruce, I’m not sure how the Taco Bell beef and bean burrito’s fit into your guidelines for healthy eating (which, as far as I can tell, are avoid PUFA’s, stimulants, preservatives and other man made chemicals and crap while eating all the protein, fat and starch that you want along with some sugar with the best sugar/starch ratio still undetermined) as they contain:
Partially Hydrogenated Corn Oil
Natural Smoke Flavor
Modified Corn Starch
Autolyzed Yeast Extract
Partially hydrogenated Soybean and/or Cottonseed oil
DATEM, (Diacetyl Tartaric (Acid) Ester of Monoglyceride)
Any change in your thoughts on vegetables? Are you going to experiment to see if they can be a good addition to your Bad Medicine Diet?
You say that you can drink a lot of water now with no problems. “A lot” can mean wildly different things to different people. Can you give an estimate of the volume of the daily intake that you classify as a lot?
Like Timmypatch I am curious if these feelings of success are short term (like the success that many feel upon switching to almost any new diet, be it vegan, primal or whatever) or if they will be sustained long term. ONly time will tell.
Bruce: “You’re witnessing history right here and now.”
Wow Bruce, those are big words. Especially coming from someone who just 1 week ago was preoccupied with posting references to laboratory investigations, statistics, double-blind studies and mice experiments..
Like the mice study where they fed mice starches or sugars, and the ones on sugars had the best insulin response. Remember?
Or how about what you said, just a couple of weeks ago, that physical degeneration in our country is not due to high carb/low fat or high fat/low carb, it’s due to HIGH EVERYTHING (high protein, high carb, high fat)… Which ironically is exactly what you are doing now, and recommending.
I hope you are smart enough to see the irony in what has happened to yourself in a matter of days. Sounds to me like you’ve experienced some form of overnight miracle transformation.
..Personally I think you just tried those 3-5 burgers initially and then saw no issues (since you have healed from STAYING AWAY From those things in the past) and then you said to yourself: “wow, no problems like in the past, let me try 50 burgers more, some tacos and some ice cream.” And then you realized your healed body digested that well, and now you’re like “Next week I’ll try 300 grams of fiber, 5 pounds of honey, 88 burgers, 52 pounds of starches and 25 grams of MSG – just to check I’m healthy enough”.
I think you are mistakenly thinking that junk foods healed you. Maybe binging once per week like you said allowed your ALREADY healed body to adjust to sugars/starches, firing up insulin again like never before (from your healthy shrunken pancreas). But if you keep this up, daily, you might over time end up where you started, and your pancreas can only increase in size to a certain point.
“Bruce, I’m happy to see that there are people like you willing to challenge conventional dietary wisdom and engage in self-experimentation, but that a diet high in refined starches and high in sugars could be healthy long-term strikes me as incredibly suspicious.”
I’m not just eating refined carbs and by eating large amounts of refined carbs I have totally transformed my abilities to digest unrefined ones. Plus, I find that unrefined carbs are very satisfying. I’d be content after one piece of sourdough whole spelt bread and have to force feed myself to eat two. But I have perfect digestion no matter if I eat 3-4 pieces of whole grain bread. That is proof of digestive healing and insulin response healing and all kinds of other things. I could stop eating refined carbs now and never be able to over-eat brown rice and potatoes or whole meal bread unless the results faded from not doing occasional binges. Plus, my digestion is 100 times better. So, where is there any evidence of harm?
“While it seems perfectly conceivable to me that subjecting one’s body to acute, isolated carb binges could jumpstart metabolism or yield health improvements, I’m finding it very difficult to accept that habitually high levels of carbohydrate intake (hundreds of grams per day), regardless its source, could be healthy habitually.”
Healthy groups routinely eat hundreds of grams of carbohydrates, like the Kitava tribe and others. They are all thin and have “undetectable levels” of disease. I think you have been led astray by dogma from low-carb and/or paleo diet gurus. A healthy person could eat 70% carbs, 20% fat, and 10% protein. That’s what people eat in Kitava basically.
“I personally know plenty of obese individuals who eat little sugar and little polyunsaturated fats and I also know plenty of lean individuals who indulge in both of these eating habits.”
But they might do other things that slow their metabolism or increase it. You can lose weight on PUFAs, esp if you eat low carbs or whole food sources of PUFAs. It is undeniable, however, that unsaturated fats are inferior to saturated fats, for stability and so forth. Humans can adapt to anything, esp in the state of totally robust health that Matt and I are at or very near approaching.
Sen: “I’m not sure how the Taco Bell beef and bean burrito’s fit into your guidelines for healthy eating (which, as far as I can tell, are avoid PUFA’s, stimulants, preservatives and other man made chemicals and crap while eating all the protein, fat and starch that you want along with some sugar with the best sugar/starch ratio still undetermined) as they contain:”
These are trace ingredients. The healthy liver can handle lots of toxins. Look at Matt drinking polluted water and eating after sick people. So what? It’s better for your metabolism than eating the meat without the bread like low-carb dieters. How many of them have repaired anything, healed anything, improved their ability to digest and use carbohyrates one iota? Fast food is a lot better than the crap that Michael Eades and Richard Bernstein endorse as healthy, like stimulants and artificial sweeteners, and fractionated protein shakes/bars/whatever.
Nutrition data claims that the Bean Burrito from Taco Bell contains 11 g of fat. As the fat from the beans is negligible then most of that fat comes from the Partially hydrogenated corn oil that the beans are fried in and the partially hydrogenated Soy and/or Cottonseed oil that the tortilla is made with. I don’t see how you can excuse that as a trace ingredient. Carageenan and other gums and stabilizers are only trace ingredients in sour cream and yet you have advised people to avoid them like the plague.
There is no evidence that you have repaired anything with Taco Bell. You have not isolated your variables. Perhaps if you had eaten as you have but without taco bell you would be even closer to the 100% healed that you’re looking for than the 90-95% that you see yourself at. Where is your evidence that eating partially hydrogenated PUFA oils will do more to repair your metabolism than eating meat without the bread? (which is a straw man argument anyway)
“Or how about what you said, just a couple of weeks ago, that physical degeneration in our country is not due to high carb/low fat or high fat/low carb, it’s due to HIGH EVERYTHING (high protein, high carb, high fat)… Which ironically is exactly what you are doing now, and recommending.”
That’s because people are unhealthy, not because the high-everything diet is bad, inherently. There is no irony. When most people are unhealthy, they have to limit their diets. A healthy person could eat unlimited fats, starch, protein, sugars, fiber, and calories every day and remain lean and muscular and healthy with zero effort. Matt has said this over and over again that healthy people can thrive on any natural foods, as long as they have some animal foods present. Your comments are ignorant and insulting and you don’t even bother to identify yourself.
“I think you are mistakenly thinking that junk foods healed you. Maybe binging once per week like you said allowed your ALREADY healed body to adjust to sugars/starches, firing up insulin again like never before (from your healthy shrunken pancreas). But if you keep this up, daily, you might over time end up where you started, and your pancreas can only increase in size to a certain point.”
There is no evidence whatsoever to back that up, because my health is better in every way and I can eat high-fiber food that I could not eat before without any digestive problems. I never said that I was going to eat this way forever. When I’m healed, I will go back to potatoes, organic white sushi rice, and other low fiber and low gluten starches. But I am free to eat with friends and family and thrive, no matter what is on their menu. And I won’t have any fear that the food which healed me will suddenly damage my health if eaten occasionally.
There’s also high fructose corn syrup in the buns at McDonalds, and in the seasoning
And in the bun, It’s the 3rd ingredient, water and enriched flour being the first two. 4th ingredient is part. hydrogenated soybean oil, then yeast and then 2% or less of a bunch of other weird stuff.
And the seasoning is basically just salt, pepper, and part. hydrogenated cotten/soybean oil
So, definitely not something I think you could potentially heal someone with completely. Maybe if you’re healthy, you could take it, but I don’t know how long if you kept eating it over and over. I don’t know, I just think manmade things like vegetable syrups and preservatives are just best left alone.
Sen: “Nutrition data claims that the Bean Burrito from Taco Bell contains 11 g of fat. As the fat from the beans is negligible then most of that fat comes from the Partially hydrogenated corn oil that the beans are fried in and the partially hydrogenated Soy and/or Cottonseed oil that the tortilla is made with.”
There is cheese on the bean burrito and most of the fat is saturated. As I said, the other fats are just trace amounts in the bread. I avoid the sauces and other things, just eating the burrito plain. I will probably buy a bunch of burritos at whole foods made with unbleached and not enriched flour this week. Then I can eat the starches with my meat and eggs and cheese without any concerns.
“I don’t see how you can excuse that as a trace ingredient. Carageenan and other gums and stabilizers are only trace ingredients in sour cream and yet you have advised people to avoid them like the plague.”
Because people are unhealthy, not that a healthy person couldn’t handle those things in trace amounts. You sound just like Anonymous and you are ignoring what Matt and I have said. Healthy people can eat anything. They can eat any ratio of fat, sugar, starch, protein, and so on, as long as they have tome animal foods and no refined sugars or high-PUFA oils. The goal of healing, the promised land, the Holy Grail, should be that you can eat any ratio of foods and be healthy, from 80% carbs, 10% fat, 10% protein to 85% fat and 15% protein and no carbs. A healthy person can eat anything and stay healthy, providing they avoid the worst things or eat them only sporadically.
“Healthy groups routinely eat hundreds of grams of carbohydrates, like the Kitava tribe and others. They are all thin and have “undetectable levels” of disease. I think you have been led astray by dogma from low-carb and/or paleo diet gurus. A healthy person could eat 70% carbs, 20% fat, and 10% protein. That’s what people eat in Kitava basically.”
I concede that you have a point here. Of course I think there is a pretty clear difference between naturally grown or gathered and traditionally prepared carbohydrates and fast food carbohydrates.
But something is amiss. American’s are experiencing all time high rates of obesity, chronic illness, and mental disorders such as depression. If this can all be traced to our diet, and its sources are as singular and straightforward as over consumption polyunsaturated fat and consumption concoctions that include huge doses of sugar and refined starch, wouldn’t somebody have else have realized this by now? I know I’m playing the devils advocate here, and that everybody could make that argument when some one else comes up with a innovate new idea or conclusion, but seriously, are you sure you’re not rejecting just a wee prematurely the possibility that industrial processing, refining procedures, chemical additives, # of calories, macronutrient ratios, etc have complex and interactive effects on the human body.
Also, Bruce, what specifically have you and Matt done to achieve “robust heatlh”, and are you sure that by gorging on fast food, your not setting yourself up for a return to suboptimal health?
Chloe: “There’s also high fructose corn syrup in the buns at McDonalds, and in the seasoning”
That’s why I said that I think Taco Bell is better. Their food has a higher ratio of starch to sugars (like 12:1 or 13:1). My health improved extremely by eating a lot of bean cheese burritos, and similar high-fiber, high-starch, low-sugar food. That was when I realized I could eat all kinds of fiber (whole grains and beans), and have effortless digestion.
Well, definitely keep everyone updated on how it works out. I’m glad you’re seeing a breakthrough :)
Bruce: “There is cheese on the bean burrito and most of the fat is saturated.”
You are right about there being cheese in there. I was under the impression that they listed the one with cheese as a bean and cheese burrito, but only 3.5 of the 9g of fat are saturated, hardly most(numbers corrected to the ones on Taco Bell’s website, not nutritiondata). A Mission Hills 8 inch tortilla has 3 grams of fat in it. I suspect that the taco bell tortilla (which I think is larger than 8 inches) would have as much or more, so you continue to underestimate the PUFA content.
Bruce: “You sound just like Anonymous and you are ignoring what Matt and I have said.”
Sorry, wrong. You’ve said that healthy people can eat any combination of food but, unless I was ignoring you when you wrote it, you’ve never said that carageenan is a food.
Bruce: “A healthy person can eat anything and stay healthy, providing they avoid the worst things or eat them only sporadically.”
You have specifically said in the past that carageenan is one of the worst things and nowhere previously have you said otherwise.
The burritos that I’ve seen at Whole Foods in the past (it’s been a long time since I’ve been in one) were made with Canola oil in the refried beans and the tortillas. Enjoy your PUFA oils. But, I suppose that since it’s only trace it doesn’t matter.
I also take issue with the taco bell burrito recommendation because previously in the comment thread you have recommended consuming them not as something that someone with a healthy metabolism can get away with but as something that someone with a damaged metabolism should consume to heal. So which is it? Can a healthy person tolerate eating the toxins or will the toxins make an unhealthy person into a healthy one?
Sen, I think we’re all agreeing it’s unhealthy to make a habit out of eating fast food and things. But I think what Bruce is trying saying is that eating it temporarily may help you tolerate other food in general easier. Kind of like…a vaccination. Though no one should be needing one – it does keep people from getting them so that the body builds up a tolerance on it’s own. Notice, though, probably a healthy person would not get the disease in the first place because they are eating correctly and therefor “said’ disease wouldn’t effect them (like tuberculosis). So you could be around it all the time but not get it. But still, you don’t want to hand around people with tuberculosis forever, just incase.. haha
Ah, but doesn’t Bruce’s virus of a few weeks ago provide more evidence against the hypothesis that a healthy diet will protect one against all disease? :)
You might be able to have a better metabolism then immune system, no? Or at least better then normal.
Or maybe him taking this step just made him better tolerable. Maybe it was a lot of calories that did it. Maybe the starch. Maybe he’ll get a virus again. Or not! We’ll have to see.
Just trying to lay out some metaphors and be clever. :)
Maybe Bruce is just looking to have some internet fun. He misses forum discussions, arguments and personal attacks. He often seems to go against every guru just to prove them wrong, even though gurus obviously encourage people to eat better than SAD (and the majority of people are not following a gurus advice anyway)
Have you ever wondered that Bruce may be a psychologist or marketing specialist and he is just trying to study the psychology of persuasion or improve his convincing skills?
Otherwise why is he completely contradicting himself on almost every point he has made in the past (a few weeks ago). And worse: he is denying this fact.
Maybe AV’s ice creams and huge amounts of honey aren’t such a bad idea now? Maybe AV knew the power of “binging” all along. You have just figured out the power of this concept.. and you were so against his ideas of over eating in the past. Next thing you know, Bruce might be recommending vegetable juices.
I think Bruce is trying to prove to himself that he can 180 everyone who believed in his prior advice, to be convinced in this new junk foods heal non-sense. Are we just a part of his experiment on the psychology of persuasion? Interesting… At least reveal what you used us all for in the end!.. :)
“Ah, but doesn’t Bruce’s virus of a few weeks ago provide more evidence against the hypothesis that a healthy diet will protect one against all disease? :)”
Maybe the virus was the final step in my healing. You don’t know. I was violently sick vomiting several times a day and/or having diarrhea and loose stools. But my health since then has been stunning. And feel free not to believe it. I would not believe it myself if I didn’t see that I am 9 pounds lighter than 2.5 weeks ago, while eating 3,000 Calories and 300g of carbs for the last few days and bingeing on sugar and fast food each weekend for the last 2.5 weeks. It’s a miracle, I’ll grant you that. But the question is, can this miracle work for everybody? Eat all you want of fat, starch, and protein; go wild with sugar on the weekend, and turn your metabolism up to 11.
Bruce is allowed to change his mind and have revelations. He’s allowed to look at what he’s done wrong and try something new based on new evidence.
Even if he is what you claim, it doesn’t make much difference because everyone here is educated enough to have their own diets and decide what to try or reject from other people’s experiences. I don’t follow every single thing I’ve read here for the past six months, I stick to what works for me and keep an open mind about everything else, as well as asking questions.
I’m beginning to think that the new title for this blog should be “180 Degree Health… Conspiracy-Style.”
“Have you ever wondered that Bruce may be a psychologist or marketing specialist and he is just trying to study the psychology of persuasion or improve his convincing skills?”
damn entertaining whatever the scenario.
The voracity of the “bad medicine claim” is largely irrelevant.
Giving the sacred dietary cows a decent prod is of immense benefit.
Otherwise dem cows just keep on chewin’ the same cud.
Yeah but you don’t have to be used if you’re not looking to be used. If you’re not looking for someone to lay out a diet for you.
If I binged on McDonalds and felt spectacular, I think I’d be sharing that. If someone tried what he was doing and didn’t get the same results, and felt bad; we would go into why they felt bad, what they were eating before, etc. etc.; You can be skeptical about everything, but for a reason. Like, didn’t Bruce do AV’s diet, and didn’t get great results? That’s one reason to be a skeptic. Basically; no one’s trying to scam anyone, I don’t think. I mean, he’s just trying to share what he experienced. Maybe a little cockiness there, but hey, cockiness usually comes with a cock. boom.
“…I don’t see how your
insulin or blood sugar levels would be better with starch. I’ve
never seen any evidence for that. Matt said that corn-starch
was used to treat hypoglycemia by a doctor who worked at
the USDA. First of all, a USDA doctor is not exactly reliable
for what is healthy. Of course they will tell you that grains are
healthy. Where does their money come from? Second of all,
I don’t see how refined starch will do anything but spike your
blood sugar and make it rapidly crash, whereas fruits with a
mix of sugars can give stable energy….”
“Healthy people can convert fructose to glucose to provide
steady energy for the long-term. Starches just burn up fast
and leave you with nothing but fumes. I don’t see how they
are a superior fuel source at all. Notice how all the people
pushing high starch diets tell you to eat every 3 hours, due
to the fact that starches cause hunger. Sugars eaten in the
absence of starches suppress hunger. Escalante pointed
out a lot of studies talking about this. Basically, it’s just an
empty belief that starches give you stable energy. Most of
the people who promote eating them also promote eating
6-8 meals a day or grazing like a cow.”
What’s your opinion on starches now?
Maybe the constant hunger starches eventually cause (if overeaten) are due to a higher metabolism (slightly hyperthyroid?) since they over-fuel the production of new cells/hormones/cell-renewal. . …
AV recommends small portions of starch with fat, for some people. He says starches bind to toxic hormones (or artificial hormone mimickers from the environment)
“Sen, I think we’re all agreeing it’s unhealthy to make a habit out of eating fast food and things. But I think what Bruce is trying saying is that eating it temporarily may help you tolerate other food in general easier. Kind of like…a vaccination.”
Chloe, you’re brilliant. This blog would be worthless without your comments. The point is that I have improved my starch and fiber digestion 100-fold by bingeing on fast food and junk food and desserts once a week. I’m not worried if there is 6g of PUFAs and 7g of HFCS in the tacos nad burritos combined. My PUFA intake is far less than most people and my health is orders of magnitude better. I can eat starch and sugar and fat and protein and still I’m losing weight and feeling like a million bucks. Which is more than I”d say for Charles Washington, Mike Eades, and others. Even Anthony Colpo realized that his health was better with starches and fruit (as long as he cooked most of the fruit). The secret is that low-carb is dead. High-everything is the new diet that will heal your metabolism and raise all of your good hormones and lower all of your bad hormones. And what’s more it can be followed anywhere at any time. I think a healthy person could eat potato chips and fries and not degrade their health. The body would just get rid of the excess PUFAs like it is getting rid of the 3,000 calories I eat and more to allow me to lose 9 pounds in 2.5 weeks. I’m not afraid of anything any more. If I wanted to, I could eat doughnuts and french fries tomorrow and it would most likely not destroy my health.
Matt must be sitting back like the cat with the cream. (or foie gras)
Nearly 200 comments on this thread, comments being thrown around on other forums..ahh the pulling power of controvesy.
Great for building hit numbers on blog and website, maybe increase search engine rank, and even sell some (e)books!
The comments in a previous post to Joel Fuhrman minder along the lines of “I am going to be famous” may even be in the formative stages.
If not a dietary guru, maybe, an entrepreneur.
Whatever, your hard endeavours appear to be paying dividends.
Soak it up.
Aw shucks. Thanks. Wouldn’t have gotten to this understanding without reading the various comments here! As for those oily cakes; that may be a time bomb. But who knows. I always wonder about those competitive eaters..scarfing down whatever and not being obese. And in some cases, buff (Kobayashi) or thin (Sonya Thomas).
And whichever Anonymous that is; I’ll call you 7:49PM (Eastern time); we haven’t hit 200 just yet. But almost.
“I think a healthy person could eat potato chips and fries and not degrade their health. The body would just get rid of the excess PUFAs like it is getting rid of the 3,000 calories I eat and more to allow me to lose 9 pounds in 2.5 weeks. I’m not afraid of anything any more. If I wanted to, I could eat doughnuts and french fries tomorrow and it would most likely not destroy my health.”
Now even PUFA’s aren’t a problem so long as a person is healthy, begging the question, how does one become unhealthy in the first place?
I can’t help but feel like you’ve begun to loose perspective. Most of us who surf health and diet blogs are looking to heal and improve their health status. If we had perfect health and could eat anything without putting on an ounce of weight or ever feeling cruddy, we wouldn’t be here in the first place.
Perhaps a person in perfect health can digest and thrive on practically all forms and combination of food, but for the rest of us less than perfect physical specimens, the pertinant question is not how to define perfect health. It is how to preserve and even improve on our current physical wellbeing.
“Bruce is allowed to change his mind and have revelations. He’s allowed to look at what he’s done wrong and try something new based on new evidence.”
Thanks, Harper. It is a revelation. It’s miraculous, in fact. I’ve experimented a decade trying to find THE perfect diet. My weight has gone up and down, muscles up and down, fat up and down. Now, I’ve found it. I am absolutely certain. I’ve been eating 3,000 Calories and 300g of carbs a day for since Saturday and I am down 9 pounds from 2.5 weeks ago and my stomach is flatter and my muscles more hard. Every meal I eat is effortless to digest, no matter what ratio of fat or starch or sugar or protein. This is the Holy Grail of all diets.
Chloe’s inoculation theory is brilliant. Fast food and junk food is the ultimate food for healing your metabolism. High starch, high fat, high protein during the week. High sugar, high starch, high fat, high protein on the weekend. Give it time and you will heal yourself 100% and have your ideal body. No longer is healthy eating inaccessible. You can be healthy eating anywhere any time if you eat the right things at the right time.
“Now even PUFA’s aren’t a problem so long as a person is healthy, begging the question, how does one become unhealthy in the first place?”
Perhaps eating wrong ratios, not enough of one thing, too much of another; nothing but fast food; too many calories from sugar; counting calories, and experiencing effects from it later.. a combination of any of those things; possibilities are endless. After all, wasn’t imported food Price was talking about basically replacing otherwise good food – not accompanying it?
It’s not really as simple as saying it’s just polyunsaturated fats that caused problems. Eating a bit of them is different then gorging on fried chicken (in vegetable oil) and all the condiments, a large soda, etc. etc. So Bruce still isn’t really eating “unlimited” – like popeyes and doughnuts -esque, but more like, a once in a while kick in the system. Not living off of these things. So yeah, it could be a typical booster-food-shot.
“Now even PUFA’s aren’t a problem so long as a person is healthy, begging the question, how does one become unhealthy in the first place?”
By eating high fructose, high fat, high protein, and high starches all the time. Plus maybe alcohol, drugs, chronic sleep deprivation, stress, smoking, etc. It’s not hard to destroy your metabolism with that type of lifestyle. You can doubt me and Matt all you want. Until you’ve done what we have done and seen what we have seen, you don’t know shit. Yes I changed my mind on some things. I think you can be perfectly healthy eating potato chips and french fries IF you eat the way I am describing. High starch, low sugar, high fat, high protein on weekdays and a boat load of sugar on the weekends. I am not going to binge on PUFAs and trans fat to prove the point, but I am confident that I could enter any “competitive eating” contest and hold my own with no loss of health afterwards. I think Matt would be the same. We have done things with our health that 99% of the world has never imagined or contemplated.
“Until you’ve done what we have done and seen what we have seen, you don’t know shit..We have done things with our health that 99% of the world has never imagined or contemplated.”
Well, count me in that 1% that has. I’m confident you’ve been in the self experimentation game a lot longer than I have, but I’ve tried my share of extreme diets in the name of health too. If there’s one thing I’ve learned its that you can never trust that what others claim has worked miraculously for them will necessarily work for you. Either everyone’s’ bodies are different, people habitually lie (especially online), or people systematically misinterpret how lifestyle factors have influenced their health–or more realistically a combination of all three.
Because I’m generally a trusting person, I assume, Bruce, that you are genuinely preaching what you have come to believe about proper diet and nutrition for all the right reasons. Nonetheless, I hope you can understand why smart people who have had any exposure sorts of controversies nutrition tends to generate will be suspicious and skeptical of your claims.
Totally. People should be skeptical of anything they haven’t tried and seen results for – or have tried and have gotten no results for (when taking into consideration the condition or previous lifestyle of course..). But, you could still think a lot of this makes a lot of sense – and still hold skepticism. Only way’s to try it yourself, really.
Challenging the low carb, no carb and health nut religion really brings the naysayers out of the wood work.
Here is my response to all the naysayers.
Low-carb is dead. High-everything lives.
Sometimes the “worst foods” are the best foods you could possibly eat. Drinking a can of sweetened condensed milk once per week will do more to fix your metabolism than drinking raw milk daily. Eating ice cream on the weekends will do more to fix your health than eating raw butter, high vitamin cod liver oil, etc. Once you make that realization, you see what 180 Degree Health is all about.
Everything most people think they know for certain about diet is 100% wrong. I mean, you are living in the Matrix and Matt and I are outside of it. You can never see the truth that you’re a slave to diets. So, we are here to tell the world a simple message – dieting is for the birds. Eating high-everything is a viable way to lose weight, re-balance all of your hormones, and improve your digestion to a level that you haven’t imagined. The level where you can eat 50g of fiber a day or 50g of fiber per meal with no problems. You will think Matt and I are bragging and this won’t work for anybody else. Well, keep right on living in deprivation and bad health for the rest of your life. Or come with us and be reborn n the real world. The choice is up to you.
Death to Diets. High-everything is what every other diet wants to be, but isn’t and never will be. A solution to where you can eventually attain 100% perfect health, digestion, personality, muscle development, whatever your goal may be. You can continue pretending that you’re on the path to healing, but all you’re doing is hiding from your problems, and we’re confronting and overcoming them.
“If not a dietary guru, maybe, an entrepreneur.
Whatever, your hard endeavours appear to be paying dividends.
Soak it up.”
Matt has earned if if one person in one hundred benefits as much as I have. He’s earned the right to brag and I’m waiting for his $5 million book deal and $100m deal with Hollywood to produce the diet documentary to end all documentaries. I want to see him feed obese and unhealthy people 5k Calories a day of high-starch, high-fat, and high-protein fast food and then 10k Calories on the weekend with a ton of sugar, starch, fat, and protein. Every diet guru currently alive is going to die in poverty when their worthless books no longer sell a single copy and everyone is eating the 180 way. Matt is going to be a star. Mark my words.
In the spirit of conspiracy theories, there’s the small possibilities that huge corporations would try to keep Matt’s work quiet or as stifled as possible. The diet industry is a billion dollar business and I’m sure that they’d do just about anything to keep making money off of the cluelessness of regular people who know nothing about diet and rely on Alli pills and spend half their paycheck buying Atkins approved food.
They’d probably hire scientists to create bogus papers and studies to prove he’s wrong, they’d try to create scandals on stuff that isn’t there and discredit Matt.
I think for now that it’s best for him to be an underground movement. Word spreads quickly enough, anyway. Success doesn’t have to come with fame, necessarily.
“If not a dietary guru, maybe, an entrepreneur.
Whatever, your hard endeavours appear to be paying dividends.
Soak it up.”
He should soak it up,and also reap whatever he can get.Where else are you going to get this kind of independent analysis? Last time I checked there was lot “Free” valuable information here.
OMG, the thread has over-flowed to where it’s spread over 2 pages.
Scott: [He should soak it up,and also reap whatever he can get.Where else are you going to get this kind of independent analysis? Last time I checked there was lot “Free” valuable information here.]
I don’t know. I think Matt should delete every thread before this one. Everything starts right here, right now. We are now throught he looking glass. Black’s white and whtie’s black and everything you may have once “known” is wrong. Fast food is healthy. Junk food is healthy. They will both heal you to a level unattainable by even the highest quality food. Just eat the 180 way and watch yourself shed fat like it was going out of style. All the old rules are over-turned. This is a new beginning for the blog and the world.
“In the spirit of conspiracy theories, there’s the small possibilities that huge corporations would try to keep Matt’s work quiet or as stifled as possible. The diet industry is a billion dollar business and I’m sure that they’d do just about anything to keep making money off of the cluelessness of regular people who know nothing about diet and rely on Alli pills and spend half their paycheck buying Atkins approved food.”
Maybe, but there are just as many large corporations – if not more – who would love to give Matt money to prove that a diet of fast food and junk food can be the healthiest of all possible diets. I mean, take McDonald’s and taco Bell and Burger King and White Castle and Rally’s and Hardees and In-n-Out, I’m sure they would be willing to invest $10 million a piece to make the documentary feeding a bunch of obese unhealthy people 5k Calories of fast food during the week and 10k of fast food plus junk food on the weekend. This deal finances itself.
Plus, you can’t put the cat back in the horse. The word is out. Hundreds and thousands of people read this blog and my forum, they all have friends, family, wives, husbands, etc. If this works for obese and unhealthy people like it works for Matt, Troy, and me, it will be the biggest thing in the history of dieting. Bigger than a hundred Bantings or Atkins or Taubeses. Maybe it won’t be a movie. Matt could sign a deal for a reality TV show where he feeds obese people 5k kcal of fast food five days a week and 10k of fast food plus junk food on the weekend. That show will have the highest ratings of any show ever on television. There is no way anybody can stop this now. If we are right, the world will be a path to Matt’s door and it will change the whole world forever. I know you think that I’m being overly enthusiastic, but I believe this will be the defining event for our whole generation. A new era.
“Matt could sign a deal for a reality TV show where he feeds obese people 5k kcal of fast food five days a week and 10k of fast food plus junk food on the weekend. That show will have the highest ratings of any show ever on television.”
Now your talking!
Every week Matt can boot the lowest calorie eater out of the house.
“Now your talking!
Every week Matt can boot the lowest calorie eater out of the house. “
OMG, that’s a brilliant idea. That would put every reality show out of business. Who can eat the most fast food and junk food and lose the most weight? But they should also have games so the contestant can immunity, like Survivor. Now you’re talking. I can see that show creating a new sensation around the world.
“I mean, he’s just trying to share what he experienced. Maybe a little cockiness there, but hey, cockiness usually comes with a cock. boom.”
LOL. Good one, Chloe …
It’s been interesting to watch this whole eat-shit-and-heal phenomenon unfolding. Many people seem to be attracted the idea that they can eat whatever they want and binge on foods — even junk foods — to improve their health. There’s several reasons why this may be appealing:
1) Liberation: no more avoidance of foods, diets, and counting calories.
2) Addiction: many of the fast foods satisfy our addictive nature towards eating. We don’t only eat what we like; we also eat what makes our brain chemistry say, “Yay!”
3) All-you-can-eat: let’s face it — human beings love binging. A friend of mine who visited the bushmen of the Kalahari saw one dude eating straight sugar from a bag, spoonfull after spoonfull nonstop for a good while. Addictive foods are especially easy to binge on.
4) Comfort: to be able to eat the foods many of us were raised on is an emotional and powerful experience. Since none of us were raised on cod liver oil and raw milk, these foods don’t comfort us and bring a sense of connection the same way that burgers and fries do.
I understand the underlying theory behind such a way of eating, as Matt and Bruce have explained it: a healthy body should be able to eat anything and still be healthy. But I’m extremely skeptical of the LONG-TERM effects of this food pattern that Bruce is developing. A healthy body didn’t save the people of Weston Price’s studies from the effects of industrialized foods (particularly wheat and sugar).
But maybe, just maybe, if we throw all intellectualism out the window and challenge ourselves with the *experiences* being shared by Bruce, we may someday find that he’s right. Maybe.
“Time will tell. You think you’re in heaven but you’re living in hell.”
— Bob Marley
Well said Ryan. I couldn’t agree with you more.
I just wanted to put up this quote from the Woody Allen movie Sleeper, which is particularly relevant to my idea of the high-everything diet.
Dr. Melik: This morning for breakfast he requested something called “wheat germ, organic honey and tiger’s milk.”
Dr. Aragon: [chuckling] Oh, yes. Those are the charmed substances that some years ago were thought to contain life-preserving properties.
Dr. Melik: You mean there was no deep fat? No steak or cream pies or… hot fudge?
Dr. Aragon: Those were thought to be unhealthy… precisely the opposite of what we now know to be true.
Dr. Melik: Incredible.
Ryan: “I understand the underlying theory behind such a way of eating, as Matt and Bruce have explained it: a healthy body should be able to eat anything and still be healthy. But I’m extremely skeptical of the LONG-TERM effects of this food pattern that Bruce is developing. A healthy body didn’t save the people of Weston Price’s studies from the effects of industrialized foods (particularly wheat and sugar).”
They were eating it all at once. Matt is saying to eat up to 5k calories a day of fat, protein, and starch during the week and up to 10k a day on the weekends with ice cream, cheesecake, tiramisu, honey, pancakes covered with butter and maple syrup, etc. You get to have the best of both worlds – the low fructose diet and periodic binges to put your metabolism into high gear. Plus, I never said that I’m eating all junk. This morning I had two pieces of sourdough bread covered in butter with two tablespoons of unheated honey and 2 oz of brie. I felt awesome, just as good as I did before. Later I drank a quart of orange juice just for the hell of it, ate a normal dinner with meat, potatoes, carrots, and celery. I then ate a quart of milk with effortless digestion (pasteurized homogenized whole milk). My digestion is unstoppable and nobody can tell me this is temporary.
I have taken my health to another level of existence where there are no rules. I can eat high fat, high starch, high fiber, high sugar, and high protein and get perfect digestion every time. I can just as easily eat fast food and junk food. I ate half a bag of Sun CHips on Saturday or Sunday (19g of carbs and 2g of sugar per serving) and my digestion and energy was perfect all day. This is real healing, not an illusion.
I still agree with bruce.
I am still not going out to binge on fast food, but i know i could and be fine… i am not a damn slave to a diet anymore thats forsure, i can go out with my friends to eat and make the right food combinations no matter where i am at.
I make sure my meals have a base of a good saturated fat, then protein, and starch. I have so much more energy since i have added starch back in… steady all day energy, and i don’t ever get hungry between meals. I usually have just 3 meals a day with each meal composed of at least 50g of starch carbs. I basically eat about 150g to 300g of starch carbs a day. Basically Schwarzbein ratios. I don’t ever want to binge on anything, i don’t have addictions to anything, i don’t drink coffee, i don’t drink alcohol but maybe once every two weeks, i don’t smoke, i don’t dream about food i can’t have anymore, and i am less stressed, and my sex drive has come back full force…i am free of the diet.
I am also not your typical lazy ass american… i get out and surf, hike, sun bathe, i lift weights twice a week, i do sprints on the beach once a week, and i still love to cook at home… and with the starch added back in i have way more motivation and energy to do all this even more! I use to have to drag my ass into the gym when i was low carbing, and i am to so on it at work its awesome.
This is how a normal american ruins there metabolism…
Dieting too much, low fat, veganism, low carb, eat less calories, then eating normal and gaining wieght…then back to a diet. When they eat fast food they combine fried vegetable fat, high fructose, with everything else. One month stints of chronic cardio, till they give up. Staying out of the sun because it will give you cancer. Greys anatomy is on, i don’t want to go watch the sunset honey…. oh wow did you see this new drug on t.v. that gives me my erection back, nevermind all the side effects, and another drug thet will give me the energy to get off this couch. Drinking coffee all day long, then switching to alcohol when the work day is over. Taking anti depressents after you have been living like this for years. finally you just give up and eat any thing and everything, stay inside all day, hide, and become obese.
Live your life, don’t listen to the diet gurus! Don’t demonize animal fats or tropical saturated fat…. they will protect you. Eat starch, or fruit or whatever you want. Get out in the sun, lift heavy things once in awhile. Go out to eat with friends and enjoy food. Do what you love, but don’t just sit there. I could keep going but… whats the point.
"I am still not going out to binge on fast food, but i know i could and be fine… i am not a damn slave to a diet anymore thats forsure, i can go out with my friends to eat and make the right food combinations no matter where i am at."
I think Mexican food would be the safest bet, because it's usually low in sugars, and the fiber combined with the starches helps repair your digestion, IMO. I have no fear of anything. I think U could eat potato chips and stay healthy. Your body would just get rid of the excess PUFAs – unless you ate sugar with them like most people do. I think part of what healed my fiber digestion was eating Sun Chips on the weekend. They're made with whole grains and use high oleic sunflower oil instead of something worse like soybean oil or corn oil. Like Matt said, one of the biggest secrets is that fast food &^junk food can be healing food.
“I think Mexican food would be the safest bet, because it’s usually low in sugars, and the fiber combined with the starches helps repair your digestion, IMO”
You are dead on.
Years ago I worked with a crew of mexicans. They did not eat the crap off the lunch wagon. They brought their own food to the job, usally some kind of meat, potatoe or egg wrapped in tortillas. They drank mostly water sometimes coke. None of them were fat, except one who drank beer every night.
I went out for Mexican last week,2 enchiladas,beans,lettuce,sour cream, a lttle avocado. I limited my self on the chips and saulsa, 1 lite beer and glass of water.
It was great, no weight gain or indegestion the next day.
I quote Bruce:
“Fast food is healthy. Junk food is healthy. They will both heal you to a level unattainable by even the highest quality food”
Can anyone post some links where people are discussing this on other forums? One of the anonymous posters said that it’s creating a lot of controversy. Well, of course. 180 Degree Health goes against everybody, from low-fat to low-carb to low-calorie to health food nuts.
“i am not a damn slave to a diet anymore thats forsure, i can go out with my friends to eat and make the right food combinations no matter where i am at.”
This is really the ultimate freedom. You can eat healthy anywhere at any time. It doesn’t matter if it’s a vending machine or gas station or convenience store, any Mexican or Italian restaurant, any diner or truck-stop. You can eat in a way that re-balances your hormones and fixes your insulin and gets your metabolism running like a finely tuned sports car. There is now no excuse for anybody being fat and unhealthy and out of shape. They can get the body of their dreams while eating at White Castle and Pizza Hut every day.
me again (different anon). Here is a good one:
This is an anti-zero carb thread and Matt is mentioned. If Bruce could post there it might be fun – although I doubt the thread will continue for very long before Charles shuts it.
Ok, finally got a name
I read the thread. They’re obviously all really confused. Blind leading the blind
“You’re addicted to meat and you must be stopped! Where are the veggies?”
Charles…just…put tape over your mouth.
Charles admits to being cold all the time and is in severe pain from sitting on a hard chair. That’s the legacy of dieting. Poor health and metabolic ruin. Charles doesn’t have enough body fat and this is why he’s a hostile and arrogant jerk who has less concern for health than whether he can wear the smallest size jeans from the Gap. His forum is full of vapid and shallow people with eating disorders. I expect them to fade away into obscurity, along with the other food eliminators.
Anyone who has written about this blog ( or anything that isn’t their current belief in diet) probably has no idea what they’re talking about and haven’t truly done any research or read this whole thing. Someone said matt couldn’t maintain the zero carb lifestyle, since most people ‘can’t’, as if what they’re doing is that hard, or as if he just got bored of it. If only they would find out what hormones are stead of thinking about the fat on their ass caused by vegetation.
Matt is the only blogger who truly knows what health means. It means being able to eat any mix of fat, protein, and carbs & have perfect digestion and elimination & maintain a normal weight with no effort and being immune to all chronic degenerative diseases and most infectious diseases. It means having a digestion that is bullet-proof, to the point where you can eat eat lactose & casein & gluten all day without having one problem or sign of distress. That kind of health is unheard of in today's world and instead most diets preach a religion of food avoidance. We want to solve the problems every other diet is just hiding or making worse.
Matt, you out there???
I can attest to the damage that low-calorie dieting causes. I was low-calorie vegetarian for a while while studying primitive survival skills. I figured vegetarian was healthier anyway, and if I ate less my body would need less if I ever was in a survival scenario.
Fatugue. Dizziness. Low sex drive. Intestinal dysbiosis. Too skinny.
I was NOT in good shape.
The problem now — which I still deal with day-in and day-out — is IBS-like symptoms (developed during my low-cal vegetarianism days when I got a parasite) which keeps me from eating enough calories. If I stuff myself the way that Bruce does, I’ll feel great until my IBS kicks in: gas, bloating, hard stools — sometimes even vomiting from the bloat pushing up on my stomach.
I know you guys are all jazzed up about talking about this high-everything-but-fructose craze, but I thought I’d throw out a bit of my story to see if anyone relates or has advice.
Also, I’m soon going to try a procedure called “fecal bacteriotherapy” where a healthy donor supplies stool that I can then transplant into my own intestines. It’s a legit therapy and has worked for things like ulcerative colitis, so I’m hoping it’ll work for me.
"I know you guys are all jazzed up about talking about this high-everything-but-fructose craze, but I thought I'd throw out a bit of my story to see if anyone relates or has advice."
Binge on fast food and junk food once or twice a week (Saturday and/or Sunday). I also don't agree that you have to limit fructose. I can eat 2 pieces of Berlin's Sourdough Spelt bread with 2 tablespoons of unheated honey and 2 ounces of brie & feel just as good as good as when eating potatoes or brown rice or white flour. I have overcome all constraint by rules. I can also drink a quart of orange juice & feel just as good as eating starch, with perfect digestion, calm, stable energy, etc.
Sen might have had a point when he said that I hadn't isolated my variables and maybe my healing was because of eating a higher carb diet, not starch per se. I'm going to rry eating gigantic amounts of unheated honey (like 3-4 tablespoons) or orange or grapefruit juice (like a pint or a quart) to see if that works just as well. I think it will. I have healed my sugar tolerance to a much greater degree than Matt, as well as my fiber-fat-meat tolerance. It's nothing for me to eat a meal with 2 potatoes, 2 pieces of whole meal bread, a bunch of beans, a lot of butter, meat or cheese, etc.
“If only they would find out what hormones are stead of thinking about the fat on their ass caused by vegetation.”
That would require reading books and not relying on direction from GURU’s.
Notice how Hypothroidism or Broda O. Barnes are not even mentioned in GCBC.
Gary Taubes is a propaganda artist, like Charles Washington and Eades and others. They all want to blame obesity and other diseases on carbs – even though a lot of healthy groups ate tons of carbs and did not have those diseases. All they see is the poor health of modern people who are eating chronic sugar, stimulants, and/or artificial sweeteners, processed protein powders, and other garbage. They haven’t done anything to heal anybody. Most will degenerate from their stupid advice. The healthy person can eat unlimited fat and protein and starch and (unrefined) sugar and calories and burn up excess body fat at a phenomenal rate, or maintain a lean body with no exercise or hunger. That is true health and you will never get it by following Eades, Atkins, Charles, Bear, Taubes, Kwasniewski, and the other carb phobes. Their diets are starvation diets just like all diets that eliminate foods or macro-nutrients. They may not see it, but they are starving inside.
I wish I could what you are doing… Unfortunately for me, I’ve tried binging once per week on burgers from innout and certified organic ice cream in big doses but always felt horrible after… bloated, thirsty, extremely hungry, drooling, bad taste in my mouth.
maybe low carb paleo has only made me more sensitive to carbs. I wonder how I can reintroduce them and gain a better tolerance to them
“Binge on fast food and junk food once or twice a week (Saturday and/or Sunday).”
I think you misunderstood my post. You may want to reread it. I CAN’T binge on foods. It’s too damn uncomfortable the way my gut is.
Ryan: “I think you misunderstood my post. You may want to reread it. I CAN’T binge on foods. It’s too damn uncomfortable the way my gut is.”
So what do you eat? Can you tolerate any starches? You’re the one saying how good starches are, and how awful fructose is. Maybe try diluted fruit juices and honey and cooked vegetables and things like an SCD-type diet. What can you eat in large amounts without problems?
“I wish I could [do] what you are doing… Unfortunately for me, I’ve tried binging once per week on burgers from innout and certified organic ice cream in big doses but always felt horrible after… bloated, thirsty, extremely hungry, drooling, bad taste in my mouth.”
Were you eating both of them at the same time? Maybe if you just ate the burgers, you would be fine. You have to heal to a certain degree and go in stages. Only in someone very healthy could they throw it all together and still get healthier, or not have any loss of health.
I have steadily been raising my carb level for 3 weeks now,I eat a high fat diet. Last night potatoes were added in, still no weight gain. According to CW and GT, I should be packing on tons of water weight and storing fat.Hmmmm
I eat meat and white rice mostly with added fat, usually ghee or homemade olive oil mayo. I seem to tolerate white rice better than any starch I’ve tried.
SCD foods make me fatigued and crampy, which IMO is due to the fructose. I could have an intolerance of that food. Or the particular parasite I have — blastocystis hominis — could be feeding on it. Don’t know. All I know is that it doesn’t feel good.
Like I said, hopefully this “fecal bacteriotherapy” thing will work out when my donor comes back around in April. Until then, I’m just managing things without much improvement. Trapped gas is my most annoying symptom …
“I have steadily been raising my carb level for 3 weeks now,I eat a high fat diet. Last night potatoes were added in, still no weight gain. According to CW and GT, I should be packing on tons of water weight and storing fat.Hmmmm”
That’s awesome, Scott! What kind of carbs are you eating besides potatoes?
Also, assuming you’ve had weight problems in the past, what was your “weight gain” diet like?
I’m just curious to know how many fructose-rich foods you ate in the past and how many you eat now …
“That’s awesome, Scott! What kind of carbs are you eating besides potatoes?”
Mostly grains,whole wheat and sour dough bread,veges,pasta,rice
“Also, assuming you’ve had weight problems in the past, what was your “weight gain” diet like?”
Soda,pizza,donuts,coffee cake,candy,french fries,beer,coffee,
cereal,12″ subways,lots of sugary bbq sauce,milk,pie,lots and lots of cookies
“I’m just curious to know how many fructose-rich foods you ate in the past and how many you eat now …”
Occasional Fruit or juice, mostly OJ.
I have been experimenting with Raw Honey lately, small amounts.
And Anyone else who can offer some advice:
I would like your advice on how I should heal my intolerance to carbs.
First let me just tell you a brief summary of my health. I used to lift weights like crazy and tried everything to put on more muscle (protein powders, several cups of oatmeal per day, basically lean protein and grains were my diet, such as fried chicken and rice). This diet rapidly deteriorated my health (metabolism and digestion). I had no fat in this diet except some fatty chicken wings/legs occasionally and the olive oil I used for frying. I usually ate 4 meals per day with some starchy snacks in between.
The problem is I didn’t gain any weight and got only more frustrated in the gym as results weren’t going up. I increased the starch and proteins to no avail. It slowly ruined my digestive system (I think from lack of saturated fat, too much fiber, too much starch, possibly too much PUFA – although not too much fructose since I rarely ate fruits/HFCS). My digestion got to the point where I was eating tons of fiber and only going to the bathroom every 3rd day. I was always so bloated I had to unbuckle my pants when I sat down. I got constant nausea, and bad breath, no matter how much I brushed and rinsed my teeth. I felt like I was so heavy (even though I was normal weight) that it was exhausting just moving around (walking, standing up…). I would burp after a meal and feel the undigested food sat in the stomach for hours.
I then started doing my research and of course first came to the vegetarian deal. I tried for short amounts of time various versions (vegetarian with just a little lean meat, raw vegetarian with raw eggs…). They worked great for my digestion (slowly the bloated feeling went away) but I also lost hard earned muscle and strength. I began eating too much fruit and started binging. Constant hunger.
Since then I tried more diets and came to my own creation: raw meat/fat, raw eggs, and very little occasional fruit/veggie broths. which is where I am right now and it “seems” to be working. I’m almost zero on carbs and my hunger/mood is much more stable. Although my energy is low.
The problem is I don’t know how to add carbs back. Being close to zero carb is hard to do when traveling and going out. I also have problems digesting cooked meats and I think it has to do with my metabolism..
I seem to just like Matt turn into a “madman” when I add honey or fruit. or any carb for that matter.
When I add unheated honey I lose my logical senses, my thoughts change, I rationalize that “it’s OK” even though I know I’ll feel crappy later, overeating 1 full jar of honey. It’s like my thoughts change beyond my control. It’s unbelievable. It’s the same with fruit/fruit juices and to an extent also starches: if I cook white rice for 3 portions (to eat during the day) I eat it all during the 1st portion (even though I eat 1/2 pound meat with it… and I really lose my taste for meat completely and go for the starch anyway). I feel bloated and I get hungry immediately again.
Orange Juice and honey do this very powerfully. It’s the same if I eat them as desert when full or if I eat them on an empty stomach. I become much more hungry again and feel like I am craving SOMETHING but I don’t know how to satisfy that craving.. I either fall prey to binging more sugar/starch… OR I try to stuff myself with meat all I can, but it just leaves me bloated and I still remain hungry for that “something” (which I can’t identify)… I also get extremely thirsty after sugar/starches. I burp after eating fruits, they seem to digest much harder than in the past. I get an artificial high energy where I feel like running, climbing, doing stuff, followed by a crash.
Does this sound like insulin resistance? Low blood sugar? Hyperinsulemia? Too little insulin? Hormone issue? WHAT?
I really have no idea what to do. My tries of binging on sugar or starches once per week have failed. I binged on honey just last week, not because I wanted to try Bruce’s theory, but just because there was honey in my house. After eating a couple of tablespoons extremely fast, saying to myself “don’t worry, it’s healthy, it can cure wounds, it’s paleo, it’s unheated”, I had to throw the jar far away to not finish it…
I was hoping low carb/high fat would “cure” this carb intolerance, but it seems only to put it on standby until I eat sugar/starches again.
(I should mention my problem is not weight gain, as I don’t gain much weight when I add sugars/starches. As a matter of a fact, I have even lost weight when I added honey/fruits, as my taste for meats/protein/fats slowly went away and I then ate more carbs. I do however develop a pot belly when I eat carbs, my stomach area seems to be the place where fat accumulates).
Maybe I need to go zero carb for a long time before it “heals”?
I have no idea what to do.
I’ll take any suggestions at this point! So just post them!
According to what I’ve read Matt also had the problem with sugars/fruit/honey. Have you overcome this Matt? Are you able to tolerate sugars? Was fructose the problem? Do you still restrict starches (or can you at this point cook 10 portions of potatoes/rice and just eat 1 portion without binging?)
Should I carefully weigh out portions of starch:fat:protein and cook 6 meals per day (so I don’t eat all the carbs in one go)? Is it about self-discipline in the beginning, eating very little starch but more fat/protein?
I would like to overcome this problem to where I can take a teaspoon of honey out of the jar, eat it, then put the jar back (and not have any crazy cravings).
Or eat some starch with my meat and still have a taste for the meat and not overeat on the starch.
At this point however, it seems like that will not happen :(
For the above post: My name is David by the way
“The problem is I didn’t gain any weight and got only more frustrated in the gym as results weren’t going up. I increased the starch and proteins to no avail. It slowly ruined my digestive system (I think from lack of saturated fat, too much fiber, too much starch, possibly too much PUFA – although not too much fructose since I rarely ate fruits/HFCS). My digestion got to the point where I was eating tons of fiber and only going to the bathroom every 3rd day. I was always so bloated I had to unbuckle my pants when I sat down. I got constant nausea, and bad breath, no matter how much I brushed and rinsed my teeth. I felt like I was so heavy (even though I was normal weight) that it was exhausting just moving around (walking, standing up…). I would burp after a meal and feel the undigested food sat in the stomach for hours.”
I think the whole problem is the low-fat dogma and the anti-saturated-fats dogma. Everybody thinks you can’t be lean while eating high-fat and high-carb, but that is wrong. Look at Matt. And I am losing weight like crazy while eating 200-300g of carbs (mostly starches). But I think I’ve healed my metabolism vastly beyond what even Matt has done, because I can alternate from sugars to starches, and even combine them with no ill effects. Like Troy said, combine starches with saturated fats (like coconut or beef or butter) and I think the problems would greatly improve. Don’t blame the fiber, that’s just a symptom. I can eat 6-25g of fiber in a meal and up to 50g a day and have perfect digestion and regular elimination. I’m almost totally healed, from where I was months ago. I can mix lots of fat and protein with fiber with no digestive problems and no bloating.
The biggest problem is the low-fat dogma and anti-saturated fat dogma. Those will destroy your digestion and health, which is why we say Death to Dieting. The diet gurus need to be stopped.
Scott said, “Soda,pizza,donuts,coffee cake,candy,french fries,beer,coffee,
cereal,12″ subways,lots of sugary bbq sauce,milk,pie,lots and lots of cookies.”
Interesting, Scott. Seems like a typical food pattern for obesity and diabetes. Lots of fructose in those foods, but also lots of wheat. Tough to isolate factors in a junk food diet!
I hope your high-starch, low-sugar diet goes well. Good luck!
David: “I was hoping low carb/high fat would “cure” this carb intolerance, but it seems only to put it on standby until I eat sugar/starches again.”
Pretty close to my situation, David. Sugar definitely exacerbates things. Starch seems okay, as long as I keep the fiber low. I certainly avoid wheat products, as these do a number on me.
You’re essentially asking the same question I am: what is the root of all of this intolerance?
While I think hormones and metabolic adjustments are something to consider, the current track I’m on is resolving intenstinal dysbiosis — bad flora balance in the gut. I was diagnosed with one parasite, which could be causing a lot of digestive problems in addition to an overall imbalance of flora. As I posted earlier, I believe fecal bacteriotherapy to be the ultimate cure for gut issues.
Until I do the procedure, I’m experimenting with herbs to battle indigestion such as yellow dock (which works quite well) and now artichoke leaves, the latter of which is supposed to be great for IBS symptoms.
If you do have dysbiosis, David, it would explain your intense cravings for starchy/sweet foods. It’s normal to want these foods, but not normal to eat them uncontrollably. Could have a lot to do with your gut flora…
Just some ideas, buddy! Be well!
“Interesting, Scott. Seems like a typical food pattern for obesity and diabetes. Lots of fructose in those foods, but also lots of wheat. Tough to isolate factors in a junk food diet!”
I went in for a physical a little over a year ago, high cholesteral, high blood sugar, hypothyroid. Went on LC lost 60lbs, everthing ok except the thyroid. It probably got worse. I am on Armour now and doing great.I think I read in The Diet Cure that Men do better on Armour. My diet is basically high fat. Experimenting with the rest.
Looks like another has found out ZC is Bullshit.
This is a classic smac down.
I hear your concern and can totally relate to it as I used to binge on sugars they are totally addictive in many forms.
But here’s what has worked for me.
I eat fats, generally egg yolks in the morning cooked in plenty of butter, i cook them very lightly.
Lunch is normally a protein meal, steak cooked in again plenty of butter.
evening meal I cook potatoes in yes you guessed it plenty of butter.
This has really helped me eating like this and my digestion is very smooth. I don’t do any fibre at the moment because I trully believe that was the cause of my orritation to start off with, that and alot of sugar in my diet as a child, I was chocolate everything.
I’ve been eating like this now for nearly 3 months and it works good for me.
This way I don’t binge out on carbs because i only cook what i need in the evening.
Since Bruce and matts posting I have started to eat some carbs with my lunch to see what happens.
Another thing buy individually wrapped chocolates, endangered species do some which i buy 1 or 2 of at a time so that i don’t have chocolate in the house.
I also and I believe this is rather significant feel my feelings these days and do not use food to stuff them back down.
What I’ve noticed from eating like this after doing low carb for nearly 2 years is that my digestion is certainly better, I only think about food when I’m hungry and my weight has gone down by around 7 lbs. I have toned up and feel energised most of the time. I work doing house cleaning some days for 8 hours, then I look after a guy with mental health issues and then I run a self inquiry group in the evenings.
I couldn’t have done that a year ago.
I think healing is gradual so maybe for now rather than trying lots of different carbs just stick to one like potatoes and eat them for your evening meal and slowly add more back in over time gauging if that works for you.
My daily butter intake is usually just over a stick a day sometimes more.
hope this helps
The response on Charles’s pathetic forum was as lame as usual, saying the guy had been losing “intra-muscular fat” and not muscle on the ZC diet. And of course the usual excuse that he hasn’t keto-adapted yet. They should apply for tax-exemption as a religious group. Charles cares more about low body fat and small pants than he cares about being cold and hurting in his bones from sitting on a hard chair. His group is full of people with eating disorders and body dysmorphia disorders. They need to get a life. A person with a healthy metabolism can eat carbs all day along with fat and protein and still be lean. Carbs don’t make you fat. Refined carbs, esp sugars mixed with unsaturated vegetable oils, might.
"SCD foods make me fatigued and crampy, which IMO is due to the fructose. I could have an intolerance of that food. Or the particular parasite I have — blastocystis hominis — could be feeding on it. Don't know. All I know is that it doesn't feel good."
I think the problem is your metabolism & fructose shouldn't be blamed. I can have calm and stable energy from eating honey and orange juice and whole fruits, along with animal foods or by themselves. That you and Matt can't do that is simply an indication of your health.
I can eat starch and sugar, just starch, or just sugars, and have great digestion and calm, stable energy, and no cravings for sugars. I'm an exception, of course, but that doesn't mean you and Matt can't heal. I used to be in the same boat with avoiding fiber. It may take you years to heal, or it may be quick if you find the right solution. I have done all kinds of things like eating single foods alone on an empty stomach (dry sugar by itself or dry bread by itself or juice or honey by itself). I hever had any sugar cravings, binges, etc. My ability to handle sugars is 180 degrees different than Matt's and David's and your own. There is really no way you can even compare yourself to me, and say that fructose is bad in general. I'll agree that it's bad for people with severely damaged bodies. But I will take convincing to believe that your problems would occur with healthy people, or that there is no way to fix them.
i was looking over some old posts and i read you were sick like 2 weeks ago… puking and what not.
3 weeks or a month ago i got that wierd breathing problem i posted about on AV skeptics. I was having problems digesting food, like mild indegestion, mild acid reflex, constant burping, upper hernia something they call it. I don’t know what was going on, i just couldn’t get good deep breaths. I was eating so called healthy before all that happened. Anyways it was then when i had it with all the questions about health. I remember buying a whole pint of humboldt county organic butter pecan ice cream and eating the whole thing…. that ended low carbing for me. I hadn’t been eating starch for so long, i started having breakfast as usual but with a piece of white sourdough bread, butter sooooo thick it left teeth marks….i am talkin a massive amount! I was through with the diet. I knew saturated fats were good for me, all else didn’t matter. I also started eating lots of really raw honey, and i dropped coffee. I added in pasta, sandwiches again, burritos, in n out burgers, and i even had pesto pizza. I still ate my favorite high fat meals in between these, cream, everything fried in coconut oil, and lots of butter of course, but all these new foods i hadn’t had in a long time. Breakfast burriotos again… i was sooo excited.
I don’t know what one thing did it….but my breathing problem vanished…. so did my idigestion, and my body started to thrive just like it did when i was 19. Maybe it was as simple as dropping the coffee… or was it the binge on ice cream that changed it… or was it just adding in all the starch. I even remember having this big sandwich made with sourdough, toasted with butter, brie piled high, bacon, swiss cheese, pesto, and saying all hell to diets. Seriously, i got leaner in two weeks, I still wear a size 31 pant size, but i feel more cut. I don’t get bloated at all… and my energy is off the charts. I went and ate a big bean, beef, rice, and cheese burrito at rubios today… and had perfect bowel movements a few hours later, just like bruce experienced. You can see my viens bulging out of my skin, and i haven’t lifted wieghts since three days ago. My body tempeture is staying steady high. Everyone was freezing today at work, and i was working by the door, with the fan turned on at my register, one lady had me ring up her groceries while she stood behind the magazines she was so cold.
I don’t know what happened… but i am never looking back. I have to say it again, stop the diets. Don’t be afraid. I thought i was going to start gaining wieght when i went down this path, but i was through with diets…. i thought i was going to start breaking out witn acne again if i even looked at wheat…. not the case, my skin is still sllky smooth!!! I like living again…. i feel so much wiser for all that diet crap in my life though. I don’t have to ask stupid questions about health anymore…. does that food go with this… can i eat that…no that is bad…. its all out the window… i can be like a dog with its head out the window, ear flapping in the wind….you get the idea.
This study has been around awhile, but it seems relevant to the Starch discussion.
If we all new what the healthiest way to eat was for our indvidual genetic marker.Interesting
Study Finds Evidence of Genetic Response to Diet
Published: September 10, 2007
Could people one day evolve to eat rich food while remaining perfectly slim and svelte?
This may not be so wild a fantasy. It is becoming clear that the human genome does respond to changes in diet, even though it takes many generations to do so.
Researchers studying the enzyme that converts starch to simple sugars like glucose have found that people living in countries with a high-starch diet produce considerably more of the enzyme than people who eat a low-starch diet.
The reason is an evolutionary one. People in high-starch countries have many extra copies of the amylase gene which makes the starch-converting enzyme, a group led by George H. Perry of Arizona State University and Nathaniel J. Dominy of the University of California, Santa Cruz, reported yesterday in the journal Nature Genetics.
The production of the extra copies seems to have been favored by natural selection, according to a genetic test, the authors say. If so, the selective pressure could have occurred when people first started to grow cereals like wheat and barley at the beginning of the Neolithic revolution some 10,000 years ago, or even much earlier.
Paleoanthropologists have long wondered what change in the usual primate diet of fruit and nuts enabled the emerging human lineage to support a brain that eventually swelled to three times the size of chimpanzees?.
Neural tissue requires large amounts of energy, and the usual assumption is that humans began to eat meat some 2.5 million years ago when brain volume started to expand. But another possibility is that the extra nutrients came from starch.
As soon as the human lineage split from the chimp’s about five million years ago and started to live in open woodland, its diet may have expanded to include tubers, corms and the other underground structures in which plants store starch. In support of this idea, Dr. Dominy, a paleoanthropologist, said that the teeth of early humans ?are not well suited for eating meat.
Chimpanzees, whose fruit-based diet does not include much starch, have a single amylase gene. Dr. Dominy, Dr. Perry and their colleagues believe that the number of amylase genes in the human genome had started to expand by at least 200,000 years ago and perhaps much earlier, but the exact date cannot yet be determined.
Richard Wrangham, a primatologist at Harvard and an advocate of the tuber-eating thesis, said the amylase finding was a convincing insight into the different digestive physiology of people and chimps, but that the date of 200,000 years ago, derived from limited genetic information, was not old enough to give direct support to his ideas.
The amylase enzyme studied by Dr. Perry’s team exists in the saliva, where it predigests starch and lets glucose get absorbed from the mouth into bloodstream. The evolutionary advantage of this strange arrangement is not clear, but it could provide the body with energy during episodes of diarrhea, or might protect against diarrhea. Or it could just make the digestion of starch more efficient.
Whatever the exact mechanism, the extra copies of the amylase gene seem to have arisen through positive selection, the researchers said. Their conclusion is based on comparing the genomes of the Japanese and the Yakut, a Siberian people who eat mostly reindeer. Dr. Perry, a geneticist, said he could not tell whether the Japanese, who have a high-starch diet, including rice, had gained the extra copies of the gene or whether the Yakut had lost theirs.
Geneticists realized only in 2004 that having extra copies of genes was a widespread form of variation in the human genome. Many of the extra copies seem to have arisen through mistakes in the duplication process that doubles the number of chromosomes in dividing cells. The effect of these extra copies is largely unknown and the story of the amylase gene is one of the first to be understood, at least to some degree.
Dr. Perry and his team started their research by having undergraduates at Arizona State University give samples of saliva, which were analyzed for amylase. The researchers found the amount of amylase a person produced was correlated with the number of copies they possessed of the amyloid gene, which ranged from 2 to 15. The copies are arranged in the genome like a string of beads, with each gene being about 120,000 units of DNA in length.
Wondering whether the copy number varied with diet, the researchers then collected saliva and blood samples from the Yakut and other low-starch eating populations, showing that this was indeed the case.
I like that article. But where do you think it leaves us in regards to being healthy by eating meat? Everyone here eats substantial amounts and we find it to be nothing but beneficial, why?
I was reallyt sick a couple weeks ago. I can’t remember if it was before or after starting to eat more starch and starting to ignore calories, fat, carbs, etc. For one day, I couldn’t eat anything (except unheated honey) without puking like 6-10 times or having diarrhea or loose stool. After that, my digestion got better and better, to a point where I can now eat 25g of fiber in a meal with no problem except that it’s a struggle with my appetite. I get satisfied by whole foods rapidly and have to force feed myself to get down enough starch. Like even white rice is very hard to eat, because I get disgusted by it, but my digestion is perfect even if I force-feed myself a ton of starch, fat, protein, etc. I am like a competitive eater. I ate three bean burritos a few days ago from Taco Bell, with water, no sauce, nothing on them. After about two, it was a massive struggle because my appetite was gone, so I poured a glass of milk and drank that with the 3rd one to get it down. I had perfect digestion and almost perfect elimination. I had one slightly messy stool followed by two perfectly formed thin soft ones.
Like Matt said, healthy people can eat gluten, lactose, and casein all day, in the same meal, and have no problems at all. I could eat hamburgers with milk all day and have perfectg digestion so all the old rules go out the window. I am not afraid to eat anything, as long as I don’t mix things like sugar and PUFAs. I could probably eat potato chips with corn oil and have perfect digestion and not mess up my health in any way. I have attained a level of health that is on another plane by saying “to hell with diets – low carb, low fat, low starch, low fiber, no wheat, and so forth.” I’ve done massive healing on my insulin and sugar response, digestion, satiesty, and so forth. I hope Matt is soon able to soon us in the land where fat, starches, sugar, fiber, and protein can all be eaten freely witih perfect energy and digestion and health.
Could be that we evolved on cooked meat and starch.
“If we all new what the healthiest way to eat was for our indvidual genetic marker.Interesting”
There is no such thing as race. Everyone has interbred and very few people have a pure blood-line any more. If your mother is white and your father is black, would that mean you can or can’t drink milk? I think a healthy person can eat any thing they want (macro-nutrient or food-wise), assuming they don’t eat much sugar, PUFA oils, stimulants, artificial sweeteners, protein powders/shakes/bars, etc. But so many people would rather eat some stupid diet based on food elimination and other nonsense. A healthy person can eat whole foods freely, providing they don’t limit saturated fats and animal foods or avoid starches and natural sugars.
bruce-I get satisfied by whole foods rapidly and have to force feed myself to get down enough starch. Like even white rice is very hard to eat, because I get disgusted by it, but my digestion is perfect even if I force-feed myself a ton of starch, fat, protein, etc.
I am having the same experience. I am getting satisfied very easily with any kind of food. After having that huge burrito from rubios yesterday i didn’t eat for 6 hours. I could have eaten anything in between meals and digested it like nothing… i just didn’t feel like it. During my low carbing days, i was never satisfied… i have total satisfaction now.
I ate pasta again last night, covered in pesto and butter sauce, sourdough bread piled high with butter… slept like a baby… woke up early this morning with perfect bowel movements. This has been going on for 3 weeks to a month, and i thought this way of eating was going to backfire on me, but it just keeps getting better and better.
After i lift weights today i am going to go get a big chipotle burrito, i haven’t had one of those things in years. Thoughts in my head are already telling me i am probably going to have to split that thing and eat them as two seperate meals today because those things are huge!!! we will see!
I just looked up the nutrition data from Taco Bell. My meal the other day was 3 bean burritos with no sauce, and a glass or two of pasteurized milk with the 3rd burrito. The 3 burritos are 27g fat, 40g protein, 161g carbs. So that’s like 23% fat, 15% protein, 62% carbs. That’s over 1,000 Calories without the milk. I felt satisfied after the 2nd burrito. I could have stopped there, but I was trying to push myself to eat 25g of fiber in one meal to see if I could do it without any problems. I had perfect digestion and 2 perfect stools and 1 slightly messy one. My digestion is totally transormed from what it was a month ago.
oh yah and to add to the whole gene/race issue. I think bruce is right…. we should all be able to eat anything. I am half navajo/ half irish mostly but alot of other european blood. People always think because i am half navajo i can’t eat alot of things. I drink milk, cream, eat cheese with no problems…. been that way since i was a kid. I am also like bruce, i can drink pasteurized milk products or raw, it doesn’t matter… i use raw though because i think the flavor is way better.
People always thought i was gong to be an alcoholic when i grew up or something…. or like I was going to be an angry drunk…. just because alot of natives become alcoholics, and everyone thinks irish people are mean drunks…. well… not the case with me…. i can go out with friends have one drink and have a great time, i can also have 6 and have a great time. I drop alcohol completely for months sometimes just like that. My mom is full blooded Navajo and she has never had a drinking problem… she never drinks but maybe on an occasion here and there. My dad also.
I was just visiting my parents right before i made this change, and i was talking to them about what robust digestion they both had, and how i envied them. They have been able to eat anythig and they are so healthy, my mom is almost 60 and people still think she is in her early 40s. Granted they don’t eat hardly any sugar, veggies oils, or anything fried… they just don’t like those things. My mom thinks she is lactose intolerant, but the only time she eats dairy is when it is something very crappy like dairy queen… is she allergic to lactose or all the processed veggie oil and sugar in dairy queen…its hardly dairy. When i worked on this raw dairy farm, i gave her some milk from there and she had no problems. Another note, both my parents could be in nutrition and physical degeneration catagory for fine specimens. They both grew up very traditional, they both have perfect straight teeth, big arches, my dad is really handsome, and my mom is beautiful…always has been. I have been trying to figure this whole diet thing out for years, trying to make everything connect somehow.
All i know is that i was super healthy before i started dieting and excluding food groups. Before i started worrying about macro nutrients and calories in and out. What a bunch of garbage that all was. I have basically the same library of books matt has. I have read all the same books he has. 5 years of all that dieting and i am right back to they way i ate before… just with the added benifit of knowing that saturated fat is king and eating alot more of it…. and i have never felt better!!!
damn the diet.
“Whatever the exact mechanism, the extra copies of the amylase gene seem to have arisen through positive selection, the researchers said. Their conclusion is based on comparing the genomes of the Japanese and the Yakut, a Siberian people who eat mostly reindeer. Dr. Perry, a geneticist, said he could not tell whether the Japanese, who have a high-starch diet, including rice, had gained the extra copies of the gene or whether the Yakut had lost theirs.”
My thought is whatever your current genetic makeup.You either have the genes to metabolize starch or you don’t.
For breakfast this morning I ate three pieces of Food For Life sprouted 7-grain raisin bread covered with butter, drank two glasses of pasteurized half-and-half and my stomach feels flat and empty. I don't worry about fat or starch anymore. I'm going to drink half-and-half instead of milk just to prove that I can do that and still lose weight. And I'm going to eat tons of starch and unheated honey & orange juice and grapefruit juice, so no person can say my diet is low fructose, either. I'm going to prove that everyone in the world is wrong about diet and the cause of obesity. Troy is going to come with me and I suspect Matt is going to be on-board whenever he comes back. This is going to change the world.
Eat all the fat you want, esp saturated fats (coconut oil, butter, cream, whole milk, half-and-half, cheese, beef, lamb, etc.) Avoid refined sugar, avoid coffee, avoid tea, artificial sweeteners, avoid protein powders and other junk. Just eat a ton of fat, starch, protein, calories, natural sugars, etc. And watch all your digestive problems disappear, your body lose weight effortlessly with no hunger, pack on muscle at the gym, etc.
Fuck low-fat, low-carb, low-calorie, and health food diets. Eat whatever you want and feel good with, avoid refined sugars most of the time. (Once or twice a week, you can have Haagen Dazs ice cream or a piece of cheesecake or tiramisu or some macaroons or some pancakes covered with butter and maple syrup – high saturated fat, low-PUFAs, high sugar.) Eat in this way for a year and you will have perfect digestion, perfect energy, no cravings, effortless weight loss and maintenance, and total freedom to eat anywhere at any time and remain healthy. Pizza and pasta and hamburgers and sandwiches and tacos and burritos and lasagna are the ultimate health foods. Avoid the sugars, artificial sweeteners, PUFA oils, trans fat, and other crap until you are healed. Then you might be able to eat potato chips and fries occasionally if you stay away from sugar.
i totally agree!!! This morning i got out of bead…. blended together milk cream, two egg yolks, a huge banana, unsweetened cononut flakes, coconut oil, a bunch of raw carob powder, and tapioca…. flawless digestion. .. i even laid back down in bed for alittle while and my stomack didn’t make any noises at all.
Follow bruces recommendations above, it will work!
“My thought is whatever your current genetic makeup.You either have the genes to metabolize starch or you don’t.”
Yeah, I think that’s BS. It’s all about whether you are healthy. When I started eating again burgers, I had messy bowel movements. Now they are perfect. You’re able to adapt once you start giving the body what it needs (energy and nutrient wise). A healthy person could eat whole wheat pizza and milk every meal whether they are Asian, Mexican, Black, etc. It makes no difference. Anybody can attain that level of health. Those who refuse to try deserve their misery and pain and deprivation and lack of satisfaction.
Troy, I could use some help fielding the naysayers on AV-Skeptics. Would you like to be a moderator? And please share your experiences with others on the group.
This is going to change the world. We’re making history right here, right now. In fifty years, we’re going to be written about in the history books as the people who put an end to all the diet gurus and their food avoidance neuroses.
This will be a day long remembered – the day people finally realized that fat and starch and protein are healthy, and the foods to avoid are the refined sugar and PUFA oils and trans fats and artificial sweeteners, coffee, tea, chocolate, etc. Haagen Daze ice cream is healthy, cheese cake and tiramisu are healthy, macaroons are healthy – if you don’t eat them all the time. You should have absolutely no fear of starches, fat, protein, natural unrefined sugars (like “unheated” honey and maple syrup and grapefruit juice and orange juice), etc. Eat whever you want and feel good with, with no attention to fat, carbs, or calories. The more you eat starch, the faster you will heal. A Taco Bell bean burrito will heal up your starch and fiber digestion if you stick with it. Just eat a little every day and try to work up to more. Pretty soon you will have effortless digestion even with whole grains, beans, fat, cheese, meats, and milk all mixed together. There is no limit to how healthy you can get if you realize that dieting doesn’t work.
Thanks! but no thanks bruce… i think your doing a fine job on Av Skeptics… to tell you the truth i think i am done with all these blogs except that one and 180 degree health. Its time to start living all the time again like i use too… i was a maniac with food and health blogs forever and diet for too long. I will still leave my comments though.
I will tell you this, my workouts these past few times have never felt so fueled and worthwhile. Last time i weighed myself was about a month ago before i changed my diet when i was visiting my parents in las vegas. I am 5’9 and weighed 165… i just weighed myself at the gym today after a great short intense workout, and wouldn’t you believe… i am down to 159. All hail Saturated FAT and starch. And i really don’t care about having 6% body fat anymore, or having the biggest muscle or any of that crap… but damn… the fat is just melting off.
I did go eat that huge burrito at chipotle after my workout… a steak, black beans, rice, lots of cheese, salsa, peppers and onions, water with lemon in it… my stomach was just as flat feeling as when i went in when i was done. I also came home right after and poured myself a glass of milk… i am setting here typing… digestion is flawless.
I am definitely going to do what you suggested, and two days a week add in some cheesecake, or a pint of premium ice cream, tiramisu. or whatever sugar i want combined with saturated fat! I have never had so much fun in my life than combining my own high fat home cooking with going out on these little missions to fast food joints and making combinations there. You can have it all… just ditch the processed sugars, PUFA’s, coffee, tea, alcohol. And even those every once in awhile won’t hurt… just keep your saturated fat and starch high. Others things that wouldn’t hurt is getting as much sunlight as you can, not wearing sunscreen, living life,resting, sleeping, and lifting heavy things every once in awhile… and i will think you will want to do these things more when you drop the diet and start living again.
Your right bruce, cheescake, tiramisu, premium ice cream, macaroons are healthy. Mac n cheese has been on my mind for quite sometime…. and i think i am going to opt. for my own homemade kind tonight…. lots of cream, cheese and butter!!!
Me and my ex girlfriend had it all figured out when we were 19 and 20… and now i finally have it figured out again… glad i dropped these diets now before it was to late!
Bruce: “Troy, I could use some help fielding the naysayers on AV-Skeptics.”
Oh, I don’t think that most of them are naysayers. Just, well, skeptics.
You are right to be skeptical, but there are other people doing what I am doing & their results are phenomenal and getting better every day eating HIGH EVERYTHING. And you can't compare this to any other diet, because other diets cut out foods that we are eating freely. This is not a food combining diet and it's not a food restricting or eliminating diet. It is a HIGH EVERYTHING diet and you need to be careful of making comparisong to OTHER diets, that limit fat, carbs, or energy. This diet limits nothing. My calories are at least 3,000-3,500 a day and I am eating 250-300g of carbs (or more) every day, 150-200g of fat a day, and 100-120g of protein a day. This diet is unique in every possible way. You can't compare it to anything. It's like comparing physics after Einstein and quantum mechanics to before. We are in a whole new ballgame.
And physicists were rightfully skeptical of Einstein and his claims for 20 years before more evidence was brought forth and his theories became readily accepted.
Your experience still fits with the possible paradigm that you and the others have done the best things in the past, preparing your body for being able to deal short term with the assault of high everything before starting to get overloaded before beginning to break down again. Only time will be able to tell that.
This is a paradigm-shifting idea. It can wipe every diet guru off the face of the earth forever. Finally people can eat in total harmony eating whatever they want, going to restaurants, having junk food & desserts occasionally, etc. There are no "forbidden foods" or macro-nutrients. No rules of food combining. It's like that saying, if God doesn't exist, everything is possible. If "high everything" makes you lean and healthy, then everything is possible. I could eat any macro-nutrient and thrive right now, from 80% carbs and 15% protein and 5% fat, to like 80% fatg and zero carbs. It doesn't matter. I can do anything or everything, even mix and match it up, eating orange juice for one meal, milk for another meal, fatty beef and potatoes and carrots and celery and butter for another meal, bread and honey and cheese and butter for another meal.
There are no rules. God is dead. Rather, the Devil is dead. Every diet guru is the devil. We're setting the world free here and now. Death to Diets. Eat High Everything and you will be healthy. You don't need raw food, low-carb, low-fat, vegan, or anything else. You need "high everything." That's the only diet that really addresses human hormones, human physiology, and human digestion.
“Every diet guru is the devil. We’re setting the world free here and now. Death to Diets. Eat High Everything and you will be healthy. You don’t need raw food, low-carb, low-fat, vegan, or anything else. You need “high everything.””
not discounting your theory, but is still nevertheless bound to rules (eat everything rule, or eat nearly everthing with exception of high PUFA, high refined sugar) and so is still bound to rules of dogma and subsequent gurudom.
By the way, where is Matt? Have heard much from your good self on this, but Matt has been conspicuous by his absence.
But they aren’t really rules, because you can eat all you want of other fats/carbs. Once you heal, you can probably alternate from natural sugars to starches or mix in any combinations, just like I do. Orange juice does not make me feel any different than milk or meat-and-starch. I’ve healed to a level that is unimaginable and, yes, unbelievable. But believe it, I’m telling the truth. Troy is telling the truth. The theory is sound behind what we are doing. And it will work for others.
Stellar commentary homies…
Sorry I haven’t been around to join in.
The Heart Attack Grill definitely sounds like a good 180 Rendez-Vous spot some day.
To be clear, what Bruce and I are pointing out, and what I have concluded throughout my health exploration, is that the vast majority of health problems can be tied to suboptimal metabolism. I believe, after extensively reading Broda Barnes, Mark Starr, Schwarzbein, and the work of other endocrinologists – that a low metabolism is really the way in which most forms of disease and degeneration operate.
Heredity has much to do with it, because a low metabolism in a parent results in impaired mitochondrial DNA, or “intercepted heredity” as Price noted. So yes, most people in the modern world are born with crummy heredity and a propensity to develop metabolic disorders.
But saying that so and so has a fast metabolism, and I know I can’t eat like that impedes healing. As Schwarzbein states in her interview with Randy Alvarez, “If eating well (high everything), makes you gain weight, then you have a damaged metabolism.”
The question then becomes either…What should I avoid? or What can I do to heal, improve, and repair myself? Answering the second question reigns supreme over saying “I have a carbohydrate intolerance and have to avoid carbohydrates because of it.”
One of the most humbling experiences of my health adventures was, after eating fairly low-carb, eating only farm-fresh meats, raw dairy, farmer’s market produce, etc. for 6 months – I started having problems. I bashed water because drinking water with meals gave me reflux. I had bad body odor. My face and eyes started to get puffy and I put on 7 or 8 pounds. I was tired and slept in regularly, but still had dark circles under my eyes. My asthma started to return…
And then I had to travel with family on a road trip, and I decided to just “go with the flow” and eat whatever was around without making a big fuss. I ate fast food. I ate white bread. My lingering health problems that surfaced on my “perfect diet” vanished within 48 hours.
This was reinforced to an even greater degree when I went to visit my brother, who is like the king of junk food (I once watched him dunk cookies into blue powerade!). I instantly started suffering allergies and a tight asthmatic chest around his pets. But then I started eating fast food with him – Wendy’s, Taco Bell, Mickey D’s – and I started feeling better right away.
This had me question absolutley everything.
To answer your question “How much is the fast food industry paying me?” Not enough. Um, send money?!
As far as the force-feeding goes – this is something with tremendous healing potential. Force-feeding lowers insulin resistance (something caused by a low metabolism). Force-feeding causes sponaneous muscle generation (opposite of calorie restriction). Force-feeding of course raises the metabolism, and the thyroid is fully responsible for how fat is utilized and allocated. The higher the thyroid, the greater the lipolysis and the lower the blood fat content. The lower the thyroid, the greater the lipogenesis (fat storage), and the higher the blood fats.
This is the fatal flaw of the low-carbers. They feel like carbohydrates cause insulin resistance, but they do not. They raise insulin, but they do not “wear out the mechanism” and cause insulin resistance. That is just plain incorrect. Of course, if you are insulin resistant, lowering carbs feels really therapeutic at first and leads to weight loss. However, those benefits can be short-lived – especially if you are eating high-protein intead of putting the emphasis all on fats. A high-protein, low-carb diet is very thyro-suppressive, and leads one to become a “fat magnet” with mean constipation (telltale low metabolism symptoms).
But the metabolism controls insulin resistance. If the metabolism is low, the body naturally kicks the insulin resistance on to assist with gaining weight. Just look at Harper’s post starving-herself example. She starved and starved and starved, lowering her metabolism as low as it could go – then when she started eating real food she gained weight extraordinarily fast until the metabolism restored itself. Then hunger decreases, insulin resistance disappears, and the body starts to reconstitute itself to consist of a higher percentage of muscle in proportion to body fat. This is simple, fundamental human biology. The immune system is more resilient at this point (and also less allergy prone, including foood allergies), stools are softer and smaller because of faster transit, there are less problems with candida, teeth are more resistant to decay, and so much more – because the vast majority of the body systems are dependent on the metabolic rate.
Schwarzbein really has this down. She talks about how, when people with crappy metabolisms start to “eat well,” they may gain weight and say, “oops, wrong program.” Just like when long-time low carbers add carbs and start to gain weight it reinforces the “evil-carb” mindset. No! Eat well, heal the metabolism, and then you will achieve your “ideal body composition” naturally. Sure, there are some people out there beyond the point of return, but most can really make dramatic improvements over the course of months.
I’ve never really conceptualized of the possibility that fast foods, because of their ease of digestibility and how they lend themselves to higher capabilities of consumption, could be actually used as a metabolic healing tool. But as sketchy as what Bruce is doing sounds, I believe that he is on to something – especially in intermittent fashion. And yes, it’s certainly true that most body builders understand the importance of cheat meals or cheat days in keeping the metabolism high. The metabolism must be through the roof to get body fat down and muscle mass up.
So yeah, I’ll give it a shot. There’s not much fast food where I live, but I’ll find something perfect for my high-calorie days.
Matt, someday we will meat at the Heart Attack Grill for 5 single bypass burgers with the bread, a big order of the flat liner fries cooked in pure lard, and two Mexican Cokes a piece to drink. And you know what? We will be the thinnest, most muscular, most healthy people they have ever seen and everyone will be standing in utter awe when they see us put away that food. Then to finish things off we will smoke a pack of their un-filtered cigarettes and eat a big dessert to add to their bewildered dumbfoundment. And we’ll be wearing a t-shirt saying we’re eating the High Everything Diet, high fat, high starch, high sugar, and high protein, with high calories too. And it will be historical. Do we have a date?
“I’ve never really conceptualized of the possibility that fast foods, because of their ease of digestibility and how they lend themselves to higher capabilities of consumption, could be actually used as a metabolic healing tool. But as sketchy as what Bruce is doing sounds, I believe that he is on to something – especially in intermittent fashion. And yes, it’s certainly true that most body builders understand the importance of cheat meals or cheat days in keeping the metabolism high. The metabolism must be through the roof to get body fat down and muscle mass up.”
Why is what I’m doing sketchy? I’ve said what I ate for several meals. My weight has not gone up at all. I’m still at 9 # below what I was 3 weeks ago. That must be a new record. Even Joel Fuhrman can’t get people to lose weight that fast and on a “high everything” diet no less. My metabolism is absolutely healed, and all I’ve got left to do is lose some weight. But it would be easy for me to eat foods anywhere and be healthy, have effortless edigestion, immune to disease, and tooth decay, etc. My teeth look cleaner, even though I don’t brush them. I eat a fast food meal whenever I feel like it. I’ve mostly eaten at Taco Bell the last few times. But tonight I’m going to have a pizza probably. There are no rules now. With where my metabolism and digestion and insulin response is, I could eat a quart of pasteurized orange juice (NFC) or grapefruit juice and be satisfied at least 4-6 hours with calm steady energy and no cravings whatsoever.
well this certainly makes me feel less bad about gaining weight, haha
I think Matt, you need to write another blog post about this – you just got those ways with words
I TOTALLY AGREE ABOUT METABOLISmumum
too many people just worry about too little things;
enzymes..vitamins..calories..picking and choosing, picking and choosing.
this “high everything” sounds like the way to live, I mean, without so many vegetable oils paired with sugars that people usually have. It’s like having a splinter in your finger and doing everything possible known to man except removing the splinter. Or rather, avoiding the actual problems you have and accepting the splinter will always be there, because you have tried everything (except removing it).
What are you going to call this go-giver? ETMS?
eat this ..morgan spurlock
I like the High-Everything Diet, or The Diet To End All Diets, or something like that. And I won’t be happy until Matt’s achieved the same level of health that I now enjoy where he can eat fat, starches, simple sugars, protein, and fiber all at once in large amounts, have spectacular digestion, no weight gain, perfect calm energy (even eating pure fruit juice by itself), and so forth. He’s within sight of the goal and my mission’s to motivate him and help him achieve it soon. And to convince every other person to stop worrying about your weight. Eat high-everything (without the refined sugar and trans fat and PUFA oil preferably) and you will eventually heal your body completely. It may take days, weeks, months, or even years, but you’ll improve greatly and steadily. And there will always be a clear end in sight.
Here are the 10 Golden Rules of the High-Everything Diet.
Otherwise known as: The Diet To End All Diets.
1. Eat all the fat you want, especially saturated fats like butter, cream, whole milk, half-and-half, cheese, beef, and lamb. The other good fats are cocoa butter (not chocolate), macadamia oil, with olive oil perhaps in small amounts. PUFAs are best avoided, like mayonnaise, salad dressing, chicken fat, turkey fat, and other things. Pork fat can be used sparingly.
2. Eat all the starch you want – white pasta or whole wheat, white bread or whole wheat, white rice or brown rice, corn, white flour, potatoes, beans, lentils, whatever. Do not have any fear of eating starches. They will help you heal. Do not believe anyone who tells you that starches are fattening. It is only true for unhealthy people. There is nothing fattening about starches for a healthy person and starches will help you to get healthy faster than sugars.
3. Eat all the protein you want, animal or vegetable. Do NOT eat a vegan diet and preferably not a vegetarian diet either.
4. Eat natural sugars cautiously, like fruit, fruit juice, maple syrup, honey (preferably “unheated”), etc.
5. Eliminate refined sugar, high fructose corn syrup, and other refined sweeteners from your daily diet. It’s OK to have small amounts, like in bread and so forth, but don’t eat anything high in refined sugar (like more than 5% of its calories or with sugar in the first few ingredients).
6. Eat unlimited calories. Eat when hungry. Preferably eat before you get hungry, in anticipation of hunger.
7. Once or twice a week, you can have desserts and junk foods – preferably high in saturated fat and low in PUFAs, like cheesecake, tiramisu, Haagen Dazs ice cream, coconut macaroons, or pancakes with tons of butter and maple syrup.
8. Eliminate all coffee, tea, chocolate, and stimulants from your regular daily diet. You can have these once or twice a week, but not regularly.
9. Don’t be afraid if you gain weight. You have to get healthy to lose weight, not the other way around. The healthy person will lose weight on the high-everything diet, if they have weight to lose. The unhealthy person will gain weight if they need to gain weight. This is not anything to worry about. You are healing.
10. Challenge yourself to eat more fiber and starches, by eating things like bean burritos, multi-grain chips (ex: Sun Chips), rice chips, and so on. These will help strengthen and repair your digestion. Start with small amounts and work up.
11. Eliminate artificial sweeteners and diet sodas totally. All they do is make you hungry and fat, messing up your body’s ability to respond to foods naturally. And also don’t eat toxic protein powders, protein shakes, or bars.
“1. Eat all the fat you want, especially saturated fats like butter, cream, whole milk, half-and-half, cheese, beef, and lamb. The other good fats are cocoa butter (not chocolate), macadamia oil, with olive oil perhaps in small amounts. PUFAs are best avoided, like mayonnaise, salad dressing, chicken fat, turkey fat, and other things. Pork fat can be used sparingly.”
Damn, I forgot coconut oil, my favorite. See Pooti’s blog for a revised version.
The 10 Golden Rules of the High-Everything Diet, Otherwise known as: The Diet To End All Diets
Good guidelines. A quick question though if you don’t mind……why limit refined sugar but not refined starches? Aren’t they essentially the same thing except refined starches take longer to convert to glucose? Personally, my teeth hurt when I eat refined starches and sugar but I have no problem with the whole grain varieties.
Another thing is that I don’t think you should rule out protein powders, but definitely the protein bars – those are horseshit. Protein powders mixed with heavy cream make a great power drink for bodybuilders. Vince Gironda had all of his clients on this drink in the 50s and 60s before the idiot low-fat nazis took over.
Anyway, great job with everything. This comment section has been very entertaining and enlightening. I have always had this WOE in the back of my mind but always seemed to just go with the flow of the doosch bag gurus. That changes now.
Dakkon, whole grains are fine if you can tolerate them without any gas or bloating or other symptoms, but refined grains are perfectly acceptable. I have lost 9 pounds in 3 weeks and I've eaten Taco Bell bean burritos like 3 times in the past week. I have improved digesiton to a super-human level, but others are not so lucky. When I first started the burger binges, I had messy stools. Now, my digestion is flawless no matter what I eat. I can eat any number of foods in any combination and digest them with no bloating, no gas, no heartburn, no acid reflux, nothing. Now my elimination is also perfect with small soft stools. I can eat any mix of foods – starch, fat, protein, veggies, fruit, milk, cheese, butter, whole grains, beans, you name it. I just ate 3 pieces of pizza fully loaded and I'm not bloated and I don't have any gas or indigestion whatsoever.
Fast food can be the ultimate food for healing – burgers, tacos, burritos, pasta, pizza, lasagna, etc. Mexican or Italian food, I can eat anything with absolutely no weight gain or digestive problems now. It's unbelievable but in two or three weeks, people are going to start believing it and the idea will be unstoppable. You will read about the High-Everything Diet in every newspaper and every magazine. You will hear about it on the news, The cat is out of the bag and nobody can stop it now.
I don't think protein powders are at all necessary. If you heal your metabolism, you can gain muscle by sitting all day, twiddling your thumbs. Likewise, you can lose bodyfat by doing absolutely nothing all day. Body-builders are clueless, as they all promote low-fat or low-carb. It is better to just eat high-everything & then your digesiton will improve to the level where it's unstoppable.
Sounds good Bruce. I guess I’m the exception where I can tolerate whole grains but not the refined grains. I’ll stick with the whole grains for a while and then transition to some of the fast food.
I wanted to share this post over on my group. I was just kind of thinking out loud about why fast food and junk food can be the ultimate healing foods…
There are scientific explanations, like hormesis and bad medicine / inoculation. Something that is toxic to one person is harmless to another. It depends where their health is at. The body can adapt to things. Maybe there’s a psychological element, like mind-over-matter and bucking the mainstream views and so on. Maybe we could heal to an unimaginable level by bingeing each week on different types of junk food. One week doughnuts, one week fried chicken, one week beer, one week potato chips, one week Coke, etc. Who knows. Maybe you could increase to a level of health where you could thrive eating SAD all the time. Maybe competitive eaters hold the secret to great health and you could gain stunning health by bingeing on different foods every week or every day.
I thought about this a while ago, how it might be best to eat at a different place each week or eat different food each week. Maybe you could literally inoculate yourself against SAD by eating a different junk food each week in large amounts and then switching it up next week. Maybe the problem is people eat the same thing over and over and burn out their body’s ability to deal with it. Most people’s health eventually plateaus, but maybe there is a way you could just keep growing more and more healthy and strong.
Here's another of my posts which people might find interesting…
I think you could definitely attain a level of health where you could thrive on a vegan diet by eating the HE way. That's what's so beautiful about it. This is a diet which can bring all of the world together and people can be healthy on ANY diet in the long run. Maybe you could even get to a point where you could live on sunlight & oxygen. Anything is possible. There are no rules. The rules all melted away into nothing.
He-man probably lived on the ‘High everything’ diet.
I just wanted to give another update. For dinner tonight, I ate a small glass of half-and-half, followed by 3 pieces of fully loaded pizza, and a glass of water. My digestion was totally perfect & I had no bloating, gas, heartburn, acid reflux, etc. My weight now is still exactly the same after urinating. Someone, tell me when, oh when, is my health going to decline? My energy is perfectly stable and calm. This is the real deal.
Someone asked me “What have your calories been like during this experiment?”
Every diet has its catchphrases, so here is mine.
The short answer is that I don’t believe in calories. Calories don’t exist, except in a bomb calorimeter. The human body does not operate at temperatures high enough to incinerate food. Hence, there is no such thing as calories as far as humans go.
i have this friend who has crohens , sometimes the only things she was able to digest when she was having problems was fast food. Not lying.
When she would try to eat healthy, veggies, whole grains, chicken and salad, or whatever was the new trend in healing crohens she would get bad again.
Theres got to be something to fast food….
great guidelines to the high everything way of life!
“I just wanted to give another update. For dinner tonight, I ate a small glass of half-and-half,”
I just do heavy whipping cream, more bang for the buck.
My weight's now down another pound this morning. So, it's like 10 pounds now in just 3 weeks. The first 2 weeks, I just ate fast food and junk food on the week end. The last week, I've eaten a lot of starch, fat, protein, unheated honey, whole milk, half-and-half, etc..I didn't gain anything and in fact lost more.
For one of my cheats yesterday, I drank Starbucks Double Shot Espresso & Cream, with espresso, milk, cream, and sugar. I had no reaction to the coffee at all. I felt the same calm energy as I do all of the time. The only thing that can make me tired is if I eat honey without some protein. That will work like a sedative and make me sleepy. But as long as I get some protein and starches and saturated fats with the honey, my energy is rock solid. I ate one of Aunt Milli?'s bagels last night covered with butter and raw unheated honey and a glass of half-and-half and yet my weight is now down another pound. So much for carbs make you fat," "calories make you fat", and "eating fat with starch and sugars make you fat." I could eat bagels and honey and brie and butter every meal without gaining weight, along with any combination of other foods. There is no need to worry about food combining or raw enzymes or anything when you're healthy. I could eat ultra-pasteurized milk like it was nothing.
Half and half is better because it has alot of saturated fat and protein… i use to get vanilla breve’s all the time when i lived in portland.
So there’s how you can eat when you’re healthy vs. how to get healthy. I need to get healthy. Will the high everything way of eating make me healthy or do I need to take another route to get healthy first? It seems that high everything is what got my husband fat in college.
So there’s how you can eat when you’re healthy vs. how to get healthy. I need to get healthy. Will the high everything way of eating make me healthy or do I need to take another route to get healthy first? It seems that high everything is what got my husband fat in college.
I would think you would need to determine what kind of shape you are in. Have you been to a doctor and got a physical, had your blood work done lately? thyroid checked?
“So there’s how you can eat when you’re healthy vs. how to get healthy. I need to get healthy. Will the high everything way of eating make me healthy or do I need to take another route to get healthy first? It seems that high everything is what got my husband fat in college.”
IMO the way to eat when you’re healthy is the same way to eat to get healthy – high everything diet (lots of starches, saturated fats, and protein). Stay away from fiber at first, used peeled potato or refined grains or pearl tapioca for starch. When you heal, you will be able to eat whole grains and beans like they were nothing, and combine them with all the meat, eggs, butter, cheese, cream, milk, and so forth with perfect energy and digestion. The body heals fast when you stop the damned dieting and saying “I’ve got a slow metabolism and I can’t eat like that.” I saw some obese people ahead of me in line at the grocery and they had a lot of bread and stuff, but they also had soft drinks and so forth. My cart had Aunt Millie’s bagels (white unbleached and no oils), half-and-half, etc. The fastest way to heal is to eat high-starch and low-sugar, along with a high-fat intake (esp saturated fat and low-PUFA), lots of protein, etc. Do not worry about weight gain or anything. If you’re healthy, you’ll lose the weight. The more you eat, the faster your body can get around to healing.
“I just do heavy whipping cream, more bang for the buck.”
Most of the cream is ultra pasteurized, and it has carrageenan and other junk. I can get half-and-half that’s pasteurized with no additives and it tastes better. Plus, like Troy, I think it’s better to use half-and-half because it has higher protein – 78% fat, 10% protein, and 12% carbs. I think it’s better.
Your HE diet rules are great Bruce.
The reason fast food is appealing to so many people is it caters to two fundamental human instincts:
1) Find food that is easy to digest – this is why we love tender meats, fiberless calories, refined foods (removing peels, cooking the crap out of vegetables, etc.). Fast food is so soft it’s as if it is predigested. You can down a thousand calories in minutes. Try pulling that off with venison and baked potatoes.
2) Calorie dense foods that combine all dietary elements in a rapidly-absorbed form. Full-fat milk, a staple of all mammals in their developmental years, fits this description for example. It is nature’s perfect food and we naturally respond to foods that have similar macronutrient profiles and ease of mastication and digestion.
Refined starch and refined sugar are not basically the same thing. Yudkin and Cleave understood that refined sugar was much worse than refined starch, and I think they underestimated the differences.
The premise that they are basically the same, with starch perhaps even worse, stems from the glycemic index concept. The faster the absorption, the higher insulin levels go. This is falsely believed to be the cause of insulin resistance. Sugar was always thought to be more problematic than starch until the glycemic index came along – now there has been a reversal, as white flour converts to glucose faster than white sugar. But surges in insulin have nothing to do with insulin resistance as mentioned above. The metabolism controls that.
With a low metabolism, you become increasingly insulin, leptin, cortisol, and sex hormone resistant. The result is that you become a very hungry fat-storing machine with lots of allergies and asthma that require supplemental adrenal hormone derivatives (like epinephrine or albuterol), while also showing signs of too little sex hormones (infertility, low sex drive, dysfunction) despite having high levels (associated with baldness, cancers, heart disease, etc.). Of course fat-storage, hunger, poor immune system function, low sex drive and/or infertility dysfunction all make perfect ecological sense. When food is scarce (low metabolism), reproduction lowers. Disease kills when food is scarce, bringing the ecosystem back into equilibrium. Scarcity favors fat storage and muscle-wasting (muscle requires more food to maintain – with less muscle, you can get by with less food). Hunger? Of course. Eating can solve all these problems.
Of course food is abundant in areas where obesity is rampant, but metabolism runs low. It doesn’t make sense. At first I thought this was a function of hypoglycemia (repeated bouts of acute starvation) – but then I learned that hypoglycemia can be cured by raising the metabolism. Then I thought nutrient deficiency was causing low metabolism as McCarrison found, but that doesn’t quite add up, but certainly may play some role. Then I thought insulin was siphoning off energy, keeping it unavailable to lean body tissues and lowering the metabolism (this is true in part, but doesn’t explain how insulin levels became chronically elevated to begin with). Then I thought cortisol was triggering insulin resistance, which it does, and cortisol is a response to chronic infection and inflammation, which once again brings us back to our #1 defense against such a thing – a high metabolism. Although the exact mechanism that causes THE DIVERGENCE between metabolic rate and appetite (which is the fundamental key in weight gain and loss) is still unknown, one thing is absolute certainty…
Dieting makes the situation worse.
And calories don’t impact the equilibrium or lack thereof between energy in and energy used through metabolic processes. In other words, calories have nothing to do with energy managment within the body – a spontaneously managed system similar to oxygen management.
I have plans at the beginning of 2010 to work on a major book project. I have planned for a long time to title it The Wind River Diet, an adventure based on the fallacy of deprivation and overexertion as the means of achieving health, while intelligently destroying every premise of weight loss dogma. I even have hopes of designing the cover exactly like the South Beach Diet, with a torquoise jacket and big lettering… A memoir/comedy/satire/weight loss/health book.
But it won’t be a one-hit wonder. If it’s even the least bit successful I’ll pump out at least one major book a year.
How about The High Fat, Calorie, Sugarless Diet?
…The HFCS diet for short.
and then maybe The Jenny Craig Holocaust…
Then the Fatkins Diet…
And the list goes on and on…
I was comparing the 2 this moning, my hwc has no protein but twice the fat.I am going to WF today and will look for some quality HH. Since my wife uses HH it will make things easier.
Some catchy titles HA! I can’t wait!!
since the high everything diet-
I had an awesome workout yesterday afternoon followed by the huge chipotle burrito, without the soda or chips. My workout consisted of heavey heavy bench pressing, heavy lunges, heavy negative type rows, and ending with a few sets of full squats. Then i did 12 minutes of HIIT on a stationary bicycle. All in all it took me about 25 minutes in the gym… and let me tell you my intensity and energy were at there highest… no foggy, coffee driven workout here… just me in a better state of mind ready to push myself.
i woke up today not feeling any sort of soreness. If i was still low carbing i wouldn’t have had such an awesome workout yesterday and i would have woken up sore as hell with a routine like that. I haven’t trained my legs like that since sprints last week, i was sure they were going to be sore as hell today. Not the case.
Breakfast this morning, half n half, huge banana, coconut oil, unsweetened coconut flakes, tons of carob powder, and tapicoa, two egg yolks, blended drank with a big piece of sourdough bread piled high with butter. Feeling really good!
Matt, I have taken my health to the level where I could eat like 1/2 animal protein and 1/2 protein or even 2/3 plant protein and have perfect digestion and health. I could probably eat mostly vegetarian and stay healthy, because my digestion is so awesome even with whole grains, beans, vegetables, fruit juices, etc. I could stay healthy a long time just drinking a quart of orange juice or grapefruit juice for a meal, because my energy id stable & calm, even with low-fat, low-protein, and high-sugars. I ate 1/3 a pound of comb honey the other day with some macadamia oil, but no protein. I got sleepy like a sedative. But if I had eaten some bread or half & half with the honey, I would have been fine. My insulin response is super-human and so is my digestion now. I could eat bagels and cream cheese and honey and half-and-half with perfect digestion & energy and no weight gain, bloating, or anything.I do think the low-fiber diet is better, so I got some Aunt Millie's bagels. They're the best I could find – unbleached unenriched white flour, and no vegetable oils at all. They're about 3% fat and that's just the natural fat that's in the white flour.
Bruce is right about eating a lot to get your body around to healing faster.
Taking sugar out of the everyday diet changes all the rules. Sugar is the exemption from the word “everything,” although there is much indication that you can actually use sugar to your advantage by eating tons of it 1 day every week or two. Whether you do this with milk shakes or fresh-squeezed organic juice and raw honey is up to you (unadulterated options are a safer bet, but Bruce may be right – what you do on occasion is probably inconsequential in creating health problems, and potentially helpful).
The healthier a person is, the FASTER they will heal. That is the difference.
And I would encourage you to err on the side of too much food, not too little. When you eat more than you care for over a period of weeks and even months, it really assists in overturning the very key fundamentals that led to the weight gain in the first place. Odds are you will gain weight for a month (fat and muscle), plateau for another month or two, and then begin to lose weight (fat only) spontaneously (if that’s what you need to do). This is the exact opposite of a typical diet that is restricted somehow, which causes you to lose weight right away (fat and muscle), plateau, and then spontanesouly gain weight (fat only).
The 2 strategies (eat less vs. eat more) mirror one another, but one is clearly superior.
Don’t worry about gaining weight. Even in Ethan Sims’ force-feeding trial, where subjects ate 10,000 calories a day while sedentary, all subjects returned to their orginal weights or below upon the conclusion of the experiment. And that’s even with them pounding huge amounts of sugar.
And don’t exercise much until you are losing fat while eating as much as you want (freedom). Exercise is healthy, but it is not the tool to recalibrate your metabolism.
That’s one indicator I have had as well. I hadn’t eaten sugar in months and you challenged me to do it. Before going basically high everything (although carbs at about 150g/day), I used to do a lot of juice-fasting and fruit/veggie fasting. It was always brutal, I was starved all the time, and was highly emotional.
I did a 3-day fruit fast several weeks ago and had virtually no hunger, could go hours in between fruit eatings, and was emotionally stable. It was a good barometer for a former sugar and then fruit-a-holic.
The fruit flush! I guess that makes me like Jay Robb, only higher in calories, and high-everything the rest of the time instead of low-something at every meal. Okay fine, I’m not like him at all.
Calories do count, but not if you keep score like you do in golf. The calorie is the ultimate metabolic healing tool. Keep track of calories like video game points. If you eat enough, you get an extra life and get to play longer. At the very least you’ll acquire extra bonus features and weapons to kill off all the bad guys.
What about the fiber, Matt? Can you take eating whole grains, beans, meat, cream, milk, starch, and clean sugars all mixed in a meal? If not, I suggest doing some bad medicine cures like bean burritos or rice chips or multi-grain chips high in fiber, starch, etc. You will soon be the same as Troy and me, where you can eat a truly high everything diet (fat, starch, protein, sugars, and fiber) with perfect digestion. And I also suggest getting a coffee injection each week to heal your coffee tolerance. I got some Starbucks Double Shot Espresso and Cream drinks last night. They have espresso coffee, milk, cream, non-fat milk, etc. I drank one of those and had perfect digestion and calm stable energy. I didn't feel a stimulant effect at all. I could drink those every day and not get hooked, as there's nothing to get hooked on.
I think the competitve eaters have the real secret. Get a different fast food or junk food every week like doughnuts, french fries, potato chips, beer, angel food cake, cookies, candy bars, and so forth. Never eat the same thing twice, so there's no way you can get addicted. That might take your health to a level where you could eat SADF all the time & remainj healthier than almost everyone. And how would it possibly harm you? If you don't eat anything bad more than 1-2 days a week, I think you would just get healthier and stronger over time.
Call it the Metabolic Exercise Diet. Eat different fast foods and junk foods each week: like doughnuts one week, fries the next, beer, potato chips, cookies, fried chicken, Jolt cola, fried fish, always a different food each week. Never the same food or type of food two weeks in a row. I’ve totally overcome all obsession with food. Walking around the grocery store I was just thinking about what I could try to test my digestion or inoculate myself with some “bad medicine.” It wasn’t like I’ve gotta get some meat and potatoes or this and that. I got some bagels made of unbleached unenriched flour with no oils added, some corn tortillas treated with lime, some half-and-half, etc. I can eat 1/2 or 2/3 vegetable protein and remain healthy. Like the half-and-half combined with the bagel is about 3/5ths vegetable protein and I felt awesome with that. So there are no longer any rules.
haha! The Metabolic Exercise..I like that one.
That and Matts pun on HFCS
Thanks Matt – your comments are dead on for me. I have allergies, low energy and infertility as well as some excess fat accumulation. I probably ruined my metabolism with 10 years of soy-heavy vegetarianism (thanks John Robbins!) then years of fertility meds and low-carbing. I had my thyroid blood levels checked within the last 2 years and they said I was normal but I wonder. I’m going to increase my calories and starch intake and see how it goes. Looking forward to your books!
I've lost 10 lbs in 3 weeks and weight's stable, despite just eating a bagel with butter and a spoonful of unheated honey, cup of half-and-half and double espresso with milk, cream, and sugar. I also just noticed that my shoes feel looser, as if my feet were bloated or fat previously & now they're not. Also, I am stronger and have better balance and agility. This is better than Schwarzbein, Matt, she's too obsessed with whole grains, and limiting carbs. An unlimited diet is key.
i got the same effect going on as bruce… i lost all my obsession with food.
If i want some damn pasta, drenched in cream sauce and butter… damit i am going to eat it. If i want a fast food burger, i will have it, An omelette fried in butter for breakfast, some toast piled high with butter, and orange juice….its mine… And big burritos are back in…whatever i want is possible. And i am adding in a pint of premium ice cream after dinner tonight for some more metobolic healing! I don’t binge anymore… my meals have actually become more balanced since throwing the diet out the window… and all worries, stress, are gone also. Iike i said i still cook at home alot, but going out for food or with friends doesn’t scare me at all, and i will always try to choose the highest quality food when ever i purchase groceries, but if i can’t afford raw milk or premium cheeses, i know the pasteurzed or cheaper ones are still great options. I still try to stay away from additives and other crap.. but when i go out and eat… who cares… it will only make you stronger, with good stresses like that.
All hail the HIgh Everything Diet!!!
and by losing my obsession with foods,,, i mean i am looking at whatever food option i have as a fuel i have got at my disposal, and i am here to use it anyway i can. I am not excluding food groups any longer!
The only real serious food intolerance I’ve had has been beans after years of Lisa’s diet. But I know they were fine for me before I started that, and that I can return to where I began.
Just look at John Robbins, and compare him to the thriving alpha male of any species on earth. He is not a portrait of a sexually-fueled, genetically-endowed reproducer that catches the attention of potential mates. If a farmer had a horse that looked like him, he would take it to the vet – or shoot it! It’s so funny how common sense and basic observation can escape our supposed intelligence for so long while we ruin ourselves.
Eat well, and you might heal. Deprive yourself and you certainly won’t.
There is a very strong analogy that can made between exercise and the diet that Bruce is recommending. Exercise is essentially an effort to put stress on the body so that it will adapt and become hardier in the future. The best kind of exercise routine is one that is varied and intermittent. Too much exercise stress on a chronic basis will lead to illness, whereas infrequent, but intense exercise is known to be extremely beneficial. Sometimes, after exercising too much for too long, our bodies get burned out, and we need to take a long break from the stress of exercise to heal.
Perhaps the same can be said about Americans with respect to their diet. Consuming the SAD, extremely high in deep fried vegetable oils and HFCS, is like subjecting our bodies to a never ending marathon of dietary stress. Our bodies are worn out and tired and perhaps need a long rest (a restrictive diet) from stress inducing foods. Once, however, health is restored, perhaps intermittent binges could be just as healthy as high intensity exercise.
Only difference, incidentally, is that most people view exercise as a chore, whereas binging on ice cream and pancakes is considered an indulgence. Although maybe this is just a sign that people in this country aren’t exercising the right way. If exercise is done playfully (surfing, rock climbing, hiking etc.) or in a social setting (team sports), it can be just as pleasureful as digging into a stack of syrup drenched pancakes.
I think people look at exercise as a chore because they think they have to rely on it in order to maintain a certain weight; same with dieting
“perhaps intermittent binges could be just as healthy as high intensity exercise.”
That’s a great analogy. Eating junk food every week is like interval training for your metabolism. I think you could reach the level of health where you could just eat SAD all the time with no problems. I mean, you could increase your digestiion and metabolism to a point where nothing could phase you, even eating coffee with every meal, whole grains, beans, fruits, veggies, milk, cheese, butter, meat, and eggs, all at once. Nobody has thought of diet in this way before. That you may be able to increase your digestion, turn up your metabolism to an insane degree, and get to a point where you could thrive on pizza and pasteurized milk.
I've been thinking for a long time about how the competitive eaters binge on junk food like cheesecake, doughnuts, burgers and fries. Yet the top 4 – 5 competitive eaters are thin and look healthy. Sonya Thomas weight like 98 pounds and she can eat more than sumo wrestlers & foot-ball players. Takeru Kobayashi looks buff and ripped. I think that someone eating the high-everything diet, with weekly binges on different fast foods and junk foods, could eventually dominate everyone else in competitive eating. I think Kobayashi eats high-carb and low-fat, like noodles and stuff like that. But he could attain a superior digestion by eating the high everything way and bingeing on different foods once or twice a week. The healthy person could eat unlimited starch, fats, fructose, protein, caffeine, and alcohol with perfect digestion, no weight gain, and no health problems. But nobody does enough metabolic exercise to get to that point, because of diet dogma.
I think off season, Kobayashi eats “healthy” and exercises aggressively. He even takes some weight loss pill, or some sort of supplement.
Your friend with Crohns who feels better eating fast food is like most people with this type of digestive disease: they do much better on low-fiber, low-residue diets. Fiber exacerbates things a lot. Just FYI.
Glad to hear things are going well for you!
Matt et. al,
What’s a person to do if he has trouble eating enough calories for a healthy metabolism? My gut feels way uncomfortable due to IBS-type stuff, and eating lots of fats is especially problematic (sudden peristalsis)…
I’m trying fecal bacteriotherapy soon to resolve the gut stuff. Until then, what do you think? Does IBS have anything to do with a damaged metabolism? Maybe low-serotonin or something to that effect?
Not tolerating fiber is metabolic and/or hormonal. Someone with a fast metabolism can eat 50g of fiber per meal and have a small thin soft stool 3-4 hours later at most. However, there is no reason that a person needs to eat fiber. You can eat a diet of white rice or refined grains and heal. I prefer white rice to brown rice, but I can digest either perfectly now in large amounts and be satisfied. Any type of problem people have with a food, like allergies, bloating, indigestion, heart- burn, gas, and so forth is the result of bad metabolism and/or hormones. When the body is balanced, digestion will improve immediately when exposed to new food and quickly be able to tolerate foods which previously were not tolerated on a poor diet (low-carb, low-fat, low-calorie, or raw food, vegan, vegetarian). There’s no truth at all to the idea that gluten and lactose and casein are dangerous, except to people who refuse to eat freely with high-everything and let themselves heal.
I believe IBS to be caused primarily by bacterial overgrowth of the small bowel as brought forward a few years ago by Mark Pimentel of Cedars-Sanai in L.A. That may not be true for constipation-driven IBS as much as diarrhea-driven, but there is strong evidence that the bacteria plays the starring role.
This is just like h. pylori causing most cases of ulcer.
Now everyone believes, due to beliefs about infection and germs, that the germs are a result of bad luck or dirty food (more praise for hygeine, sterilization, irradiation, and pasteurization – cue eye-rolling).
Not so. Again, I believe the big epidemic that rules them all is the suboptimal metabolism. This has a direct relationship with two facets of IBS.
#1 – A slow metabolism slows transit time, causing putrefaction, fecal compaction, bulking of stools, stretching, tearing, and other forms of irritation in the gut. The putrefaction itself can have all kinds of trickle-down effects like destroying intestinal villi with highly-acidic bi-products of fermentation. Constipation itself can have all kinds of trickle down effects. The change in acidity in the gut and damage to instestinal villi alter the environment and futher lend towards malabsorption.
#2 – A suboptimal metabolism impairs the immune system, allowing bacteria to invade. The small bowel should be somewhat sterile in comparison to lower regions of the digestive tract. Bacteria of any kind really shouldn’t be there.
Although their are underlying complexities, I do feel that the major metabolic forces predominate over the majority of those underlying complexities.
I wouldn’t expect to find some magical overnight cure, but be open. Don’t demonize fiber, but be open, like Bruce has become, to the possibility that such an intolerance can be completely circumvented by metabolic enhancement. IBS is one of the many ailments Schwarzbein, for example, claims will disappear once metabolic healing is achieved.
And in all fairness to Schwarzbein, she is not all that carb phobic and has become more carb liberal as time has passed – upping her meal quantity from 30-45 and much higher for the physically active – working ever higher towards what she feels approximates the ideal ratio of carbs to protein of 2:1 or slightly higher. Plus, all her meals are “everything meals.”
Further, she does seem to understand fully that her diet is meant to be followed until healing is achieved, and then a normal diet based around any number of wholesome foods can be followed thereafter.
But I do agree. Higher carbs would be even better, raise the metabolism higher, improve digestion even more. “Cheat” meals could provide yet another advantage.
Matt, how low do you think protein could be taken if you ate high-fat high-starch and high-sugars? I feel great now eating like an unbleached unenriched bagel with butter or a quart of orange juice. I get calm stable energy and I don’t even yawn any more, which is amazing. I think that you could decrease protein more and more once your digestion and metabolism start improving, or rely more on the vegetable proteins with animal fats. The rules all break down. The sky’s truly the limit. I told you I can eat 25g of fiber in meals now with great digestion and elimination right? I ate 3 bean burritos a few days ago with no gas, 2 perfectly formed thin soft stools and one slightly messy (but still almost perfect) one. The metabolic and digestive exercise is the key. Eat a bunch of different things as your health improves to challenge your digestion and metabolism and there is no limit to what you can achieve. I think you could reach a level of health where you could eat a complete fast food meal every day (with the large fries and large Coke and fully loaded burger and dessert) without even feeling any loss of your health. You can decrease nutrient needs and so forth by increasing your metabolism and digestion to a super-human level.
[And in all fairness to Schwarzbein, she is not all that carb phobic and has become more carb liberal as time has passed – upping her meal quantity from 30-45 and much higher for the physically active – working ever higher towards what she feels approximates the ideal ratio of carbs to protein of 2:1 or slightly higher. Plus, all her meals are “everything meals.”]
By everything, do you mean high-fat and high-starch and some protein and simple sugars? I stay start with 50-150g starch carbs per meal, unlimited fat, a little protein, and work up to more sugars too, Ppancakes drenched with butter and maple syrup occasionally, 2 cups milk and 2 cups orange juice occasionally, a double espresso with milk and cream and sugar, etc. Eating is like an exercise for your digestion and metabolism. Noboby I know has ever articulated this theory before, that bingeing on junk food once or twice a week (doughnuts, cookies, fried foods, potato chips) is like interval training for your metabolism. If a person tries to do interval training every day, they will eventually destroy their metabolism and health unless they have achieved a super-human level already. I could most likely eat a pint of ice cream a day and 3-4 bagels, a quart of milk, and a quart of orange juice now with no less health or digestion in the long run.
“Further, she does seem to understand fully that her diet is meant to be followed until healing is achieved, and then a normal diet based around any number of wholesome foods can be followed thereafter.”
But she doesn’t realize the potential of cheat meals 1-2 days a week. Perhaps 3-4 a week if you attained a really extreme level of digestion and health like I’ve achieved. I made the mistake of taking a walk yesterday in sandals and thought my feet were going to be blistered after 2 miles, but now they’re fine. Just a bit red and sensitive. No blisters.
“But I do agree. Higher carbs would be even better, raise the metabolism higher, improve digestion even more. “Cheat” meals could provide yet another advantage.”
I would tell people to work up to 50-150 grams of carbs (mostly starch at first, but work up to 50/50 starch and sugars, then 25/75, and so on). This concept of eating as “metabolic exercise” is the biggest breakthrough in nutrition, IMO. It explains so much about why people are healthy or unhealthy, why some people can eat a ton of starch and fat and sugar and still be healthy, etc. I could easily drink double espressos every meal with milk and cream and sugar, and not get addicted. Because I feel the same, no matter what I eat basically.
I think Sonya Thomas eats more of a high everything diet, like I’m doing. I saw a few documentaries on competitive eaters, like Crazy Legs Conti and Major League Eaters and I’ve seen Man Vs. Food a few times. But I think Sonya just goes to a different restaurant every day and eats huge meals with high everything. She is like 98 pounds and as thin a ballerina, like Audren Hepburn with an appetite. I think someone eating high-everything all the time could dominate the sport. Their digestion would just be at such a high level that they could eat like a gallon of ice cream and have perfect digesiton, perfect energy, no bloating, no weight gain, and no health problems.
Another post from AV-Skeptics…
I don't even think about macronutrients or calories. I can eat a bagel with butter and have perfect digestion and calm stable energy and no hunger or cravings. My diet is still very low in PUFAs, but I just added lots of starch like the bagels. I found some that are made unbleached unenriched flour with no oil added. They're like 1g of fat per bagel and 57g of carbs and 10g of protein. There's no corn oil or soybean oil or partially hydrogenated oil garbage in it. However, I think it's ok to eat junk food occasionally – even doughnuts and french fries and cookies. It's like interval training for the metabolism and the digestion. Someone on Matt's blog agrees with my theory & said that SAD is like forcing your body to run marathons or do exhausting sprints every meal. But you could boost your metabolism and digestion to a point that you could eat junk food exclusively for a whole week without any change in the digestion or how you feel. Then STOP eating it cold turkey, with no cravings. And that's the real definition radiant health. Anyone who can do that is healthy. Anyone who can't is not. They have a sick metabolism. I can now drink two double espresso with milk and cream and sugar and get no buzz or cravings whatsoever. I could drink coffee every day or I could stop drinking it forever now. Anything I eat becomes more satisfying the more I eat it, so binges are harder and harder. A bagel with butter is satisfying.
The theory behind this is sound, because you increase your digestion and metabolism to a higher base-line by eating a lot of starch (50-150g) and fat with every meal. Digestion is going to improve as metabolism improves. Eating is simply exercise for your digestion and metabolism. You can do it in a way that increases your digestion and health or makes it worse (eating junk food every day). The point is that you can increase your health by eating fast food – hamburgers with both buns, tacos, burritos, hot dogs and brats with the bun, lasagna, macaroni and cheese, pasta, spaghetti and cheese and meat balls, etc. You can increase your level of digestion to a level where you can eat like the competitive eaters once in a while, bingeing on doughnuts or cheese-cake, without any weight gain or digestive problems. And no cravings or eating obsessions. You can get to the level where you can eat anywhere at any time and stay healthy, any vending machine or gas station, any restaurant, any party, any social gathering, and so on.
Here’s my new profile page on Blogger.
Eating is Exercise for your Digestion and Metabolism. Eating high-starch (50-150g per meal), unlimited fat, moderate protein, and low sugar will build up health, metabolism, and digestion. Periodic sugar binges, like pancakes with butter and maple syrup, or lots of ice cream or cheesecake, are interval training for your digestion and metabolism. This theory is utterly ground-breaking and paradigm-shifting. All other diets fall apart, like low-fat, low-carb, paleo, raw food, food combining, etc. A healthy person could mix 10 different foods together, all of them cooked and/or processed, and have absolutely perfect digestion, elimination, and energy, zero cravings or food obsessions, etc.
The 10 Golden Rules of the High-Everything Diet,
Otherwise known as: The Diet To End All Diets
Death To Diets. Eat Everything.
Here are my revised rules, which I think Matt will like even more now.
The 10 Golden Rules of the High-Everything Diet.
Otherwise known as: The Diet To End All Diets.
1. Eat all the fat you want, especially saturated fats like coconut oil, butter, cream, whole milk, half-and-half, cheese, beef, and lamb. The other good fats are macadamia oil, cocoa butter (not chocolate), with olive oil perhaps in small amounts. PUFAs are best avoided, like mayonnaise, salad dressing, chicken fat, turkey fat, and other things. Pork fat can be used sparingly.
2. Eat high starch (50-150g per meal) – bagels, white pasta or brown, white bread or whole wheat, white rice or brown, corn, white flour, potatoes, beans, lentils, whatever. Do not have any fear of eating starches. They will help you heal. Do not believe anyone who tells you that starches are fattening. It is only true for unhealthy people. There is nothing fattening about starches for a healthy person and starches will help you to get healthy faster than anything (with fat).
3. Eat all the protein you want, animal or vegetable. Do NOT eat a vegan diet and preferably not a vegetarian diet either.
4. Eat natural sugars cautiously, like fruit, fruit juice, maple syrup, honey (preferably “unheated” honey), etc.
5. Eliminate refined sugar, high fructose corn syrup, and other refined sweeteners from your daily diet. It’s OK to have small amounts, like in bread and so forth, but don’t eat anything high in refined sugar (like more than 10% of its calories or with sugar in the first few ingredients).
6. Eat unlimited calories. Eat when hungry. Preferably eat before you get hungry, in anticipation of hunger.
7. Once or twice a week, you can have desserts and junk foods – preferably high in saturated fat and low in PUFAs, like cheese cake, tiramisu, Haagen Dazs ice cream, chocolate, coconut macaroons, or pancakes with tons of butter and maple syrup. Higher fat is better, so look for ice cream with cream as the first ingredient preferably.
8. Eliminate all coffee, tea, chocolate, and stimulants from your regular daily diet. You can have these once or twice a week, but not regularly. Also, don’t eat ANY artificial sweeteners or diet sodas. All they do is make you hungry and fat, messing up your body’s ability to respond to foods naturally. And don’t eat toxic protein powders, protein shakes, or bars.
9. Don’t be afraid if you gain weight. You have to get healthy to lose weight, not the other way around. The healthy person will lose weight on the high-everything diet, if they have weight to lose. The unhealthy person will gain weight if they need to gain weight. This is not anything to worry about. You are healing.
10. Challenge yourself to eat more fiber and starches, by eating things like bean burritos, multi-grain chips (ex: Sun Chips), rice chips, and so on. These will help strengthen and repair your digestion. Start with small amounts and work up.
Here’s some more thoughts I added to the bottom of the 10 Golden Rules.
Everything most people think they know about diet is 100% wrong.
Fast food is healthy – burgers, pizza, tacos, burritos, pasta, hot dogs, etc.
Junk food is healthy – as long as you don’t eat it all the time.
Fast food can heal you to a degree unattainable by the highest quality foods.
Diets Don’t Work. Calories Don’t Count. Carbs Don’t Count. Fats Don’t Count.
Death To Diets. Eat Everything and Let Yourself Heal.
Wow. What a fascinating read!!! I have been a long term low carber since 2002. I ate about 100 carbs daily with starch ala Schwarzbein but no sugar and lost all my weight. In 2005 I gained weight back due to a hideous breakup. I also became hypothyroid but did not know this until late 2008. In 2006 I went back to LC and went to 40 carbs daily. Only worked a bit and I stalled for two years. I even tried going VLC but felt so deprived, hungry and craving. I only ate twice a day and less than 10 carbs. Plus I lost nothing.
Now I have just started armour for my thyroid and am eating more carbs. Starch is firmly back on my menu plan and I feel a million times better. Since I feel so much better and no longer crave or go hungry this makes me think I am on the right path.
What a great blog! I hope to be an example of a FEMALE who succeeds on a moderate carb plan.
Armour raises the metabolism and is one of the greatest wonder drugs in the world because of that fact, and it has very few side effects.
What I’m working with is how to achieve metabolic stimulation without the Armour.
Try going big in calories (eating intentionally more than you care for), big in starch and fat, and low-moderate in protein. I believe over time you will have to drop the number of grains of Armour you’re taking or stop taking it altogether – to keep from showing signs of hyperthyroidism.
Keep track of your metabolism with Basal body temp test. Temp should run 97.8-98.2. Use diet and Armour to track and tweak changes in diet and report back.
The sampe ezine at my BIG website is a must read for you if you haven’t already.
(I think that’s the right url)
I just wanted to make sure that everyone knew about Matt’s newest post, about the High-Everything Diet that I’ve uncovered. Thanks, Bruce
The Hamburglar’s Metabolism
Matt said, “I wouldn’t expect to find some magical overnight cure, but be open. Don’t demonize fiber, but be open, like Bruce has become, to the possibility that such an intolerance can be completely circumvented by metabolic enhancement. IBS is one of the many ailments Schwarzbein, for example, claims will disappear once metabolic healing is achieved.”
Good stuff, Matt — thanks for the tips! I’m currently trying my best to eat more carbs — a bowl of white rice with a spoonfull of rice syrup is working well for me. (A dude can only eat so much rice.) I feel pretty darn good and energetic! Well see how this pans out in the days to come …
I also wanted to mention how grateful I am that there are folks like you all who challenge commonly held beliefs and get to the root of the issue. It’s very refreshing in the realm of diet and nutrition dogma.
This information couldn’t have come at a better time, as my girlfriend and I have both been recently wondering why some people can eat fast foods and have great skin, no digestive problems, etc., while we’re so sensitive to the same foods. What you all are saying about metabolism is making sense to me, and I’m very excited to try out some of the things you’re suggesting.
I’m not quite brave enough to induldge in white flour or milkshakes or anything like that, but I figure my body will tell me when it’s right to go for these things.
Ryan, I’m repeating this post, just in case you aren’t reading the new thread.
Here is a really simple summary of the whole concept behind this diet.
Eat everything all the time and you will be able to eat everything all the time – with perfect digestion, energy, healing, eventual weight loss and healthy weight maintenance without effort, better mood, better sleep, better sex, better quality skin, etc. It’s a very zen concept. Eat everything all the time and you will be able to eat everything all the time.
Which is ironic, because the “Crazy Legs Conti” movie about competitive eating is subtitled “Zen and the Art of Competitive Eating.” LOL. Can you beat that? I could have healed myself to an ever greater level than I am at now if I had realized the secret when I saw that movie several years ago.
Lynn: “What a great blog! I hope to be an example of a FEMALE who succeeds on a moderate carb plan.”
Lynn, there are no moderate carbers, low carbers, or zero carbers allowed on this blog. Start eating 50-150g of starch per meal or leave. That’s an order. :)
I have Hashimotos thyroiditis which means my body has somehow registered my thyroid is an enemey and is attacking it. So I have printed out your info on the thyroid. Looks great and very comprehensive. Shall be my bed time reading. The only problem with armour is that it has to be dosed in small increments so getting to an optimal dosage can take six months to a year. In the meantime I am trying to learn patience :)
I am too scared to go as far as Bruce K. and eat that many carbs. However I am back to following Schwarzbein’s principles of starch at every meal, moderate protein and high fat. I am also gonna try the once a week super high carb meal thing as that is what I did before and it served me well. My body loves strach but sugar is pure evil to my body.
I just wanted to inform everyone that the AV-Skeptics group is now the
The past is wiped dclean. This is not an April Fool’s Joke. I am dead serious. I have eaten bagels, butter, cheese, milk, half-and-half, orange juice, unheated honey, potatoes, grains, beans, fast food, ice cream, and everything else I want and I’m still 10 pounds below what I weighed 3 weeks ago. My digestion is 100-fold better than it was a month ago and my energy, mood, patience, optimism, and calm are unbelievable. I now have a total freedom to eat anywhere at anytime and remain in good health, which nobody else has (except children maybe).
Please join us in discussing the High-Everything Diet. There will be NO discussion of low-fat, low-carb, vegan, raw, fruitarian, instincto, low-calorie, paleo, zero-carb, etc. Anybody who does not want to discuss High-Everything must now leave and never come back. Posting ANY off-topic messages will result in immediate banning forever. Go to other forums and enjoy your deprivation, fear, misery, insecurity, etc. We are going to overcome all of our health problems and heal to an unimaginable level. Join us, because this is going to be the ONLY diet anyone eats in about a year or so.
High-Everything-Diet ? Diets Don’t Work. Calories Don’t Count
Here’s part of the new introduction from the High-Everything-Diet Group. Matt, I hope you are going to join. I could sign you up if you don’t have a Yahoo Groups account yet. I asked Ray Peat to join us too, because I think this would be right up his alley. BRuce
“Eating is Exercise for Digestion and Metabolism. This is why many of the top competitive eaters (like Soyna Thomas, Takeru Kobayashi, and Juliet Lee) are thin. Dieting, as in eliminating food groups, weakens the digestion and metabolism and health.”
High-Everything-Diet ? Diets Don’t Work . Calories Don’t Count .
I just have to say this site is really impressive and you Bruce have inspired me in so many ways just in these two days ive been here. Im a professional soccer player and i have tried everything, low, fat low carb low everything and also the Jan K diet etc. and other stuff. Low carb SUX PERIOD. its not an adapting period things wont be that much better after some weeks. The body wants carbs so fucking give it. From today i started on the High Everything Diet because i im so sick of this yo yo diet shithole matrix we live in, time to prove them wrong. I have on question tho regarding the eating style. Do you have any good recepies for the starting face? and also when u can add other forms of carbs etc. etc and also about the “cheat days” how to approach them and why etc. etc. Thanx again both of u guys
The starches I would start with would be mostly organic white sushi rice, potato, and corn tortillas treated with lime. If possible, avoid foods that contain added oils (esp PUFA oils), refined sugar, and high fructose corn syrup. If you have to eat wheat, unbleached white flour is the best. Unenriched is better still. I like Hodgson Mills Naturally White Flour, for weekly pancakes and stuff. I use Grade B maple syrup on weekly pancakes, unheated honey, and some fruit juices like grape, orange, grapefruit, pomegranate, cherry, cranberry, apple, etc. Some people would do better with natural sugars like fruit and fruit juice and milk and honey. Some have bad reactions like hypoglycemia and weakness and cravings. It would probably be best not to mix starches and sugars, unless you have a very fast metabolism & high insulin sensitivity. At least, not habitually. Once or twice a week is fine probably. Otherwise, try to keep a high ratio of starch or sugars, like 80-100%.
The best cheats, IMO, would be food with very little PUFAs and no man-made "trans fats" (partially hydrogenated oils). So, things like fruit, juice, high-cream ice cream, cheesecake, cream pies, tiramisu, macaroons, pancakes and butter and maple syrup, and things like that. Not cake or pie or pastries. Not any french fries or potato chips, unless home made with good oils (red meat, dairy, or tropical oil). To start with, I would use natural sugar like bananas, fruit juices, maple syrup, or unheated honey, once or twice a week. Later try rich ice cream once in a while if you can eat it without symptoms. Take your time and start with the safest food like organic white rice nad potatoes. As you heal, be more flexible and try doing other things. Preparing food at home is the best choice, if possible, because of the toxic oils and other garbage in most restaurant food. If you do eat out, I'd avoid ketchup, mayon, sauces, and things that may contain refined sugar or PUFAs.
thank you again. would be great to have an chat channel or something aswell ;) for the people following this style of eating
also one thing, what about berries do you eat that stuff?
The male Zulu warriors were slim and athletic due to the vast amount of running they did. When they stopped running and settled down around age 35 they quickly became grossly obese and riddled with disease. Zulu women are usually immensely fat.
The Japanese and Korean were certainly slim. This however was primarily due to severe calorie restriction and hard physical labour. Both countries were extremely poor until the 60/70s. The traditional Japanese diet is high in low calorie greens and the traditional Korean diet was mostly cabbage.
The Japanese and Koreans were traditionally known for very short stature, lack of muscle, poor jaw development and crowded teeth. Rather than being fit and healthy they were examples of severe malnutrition. In fact modern Japanese eating a semi-westernised diet are far healthier than their anscestors.
p. 71 ??refined rice when moistened does not become sticky like refined flour, and therefore …
A perplexing observation.
Refined rice when moistened does indeed become sticky, at least after cooking (and after all, it not consumed raw). Anyone who's cleaned the dried rice residue from a rice serving paddle or rice cooking pot knows this firsthand. I remember hearing rice was used as glue in wall-building in ancient China.