I think this is a pretty glorious concept moving into 2011. That simple concept is that many of us have various forms of?psychological interference?getting in the way of?our bodies’ natural desires and subsequent signals’to move and play.
For me personally, exercise?was something I did as a child purely for fun, as exercise is meant to be performed. When your body wants to move, it doesn’t require any kind of motivation or thoughts about it for it to actually go out and do’so in a healthful and sustainable way. It’s automatic.
But then I became a star athlete and exercise started to morph into something that determined my self-worth. Exercise started to erode into something less healthful and natural. Exercise became something I did, not for pleasure or to feel good, but to cultivate a skill that could be used competitively against others to exalt myself.
And then competitive athletics ended, and for a while I seemed to go even more overboard with this disordered concept. I became an amazing mogul skier that continued to use exercise as a means of upholding my status as a human being. I never really liked skiing all that much except whenI was a kid. What I got off on?post-collegiate athletics was the feeling of absolutely crushing a mogul field underneath a chairlift full of people. People would actually hoot and holler. One time someone came up to me and told me he didn’t?realize someone could even become so good?at skiing. I got to the point where I wouldn’t even ski down a run that wasn’t under the chairlift.I repeatedly injured my back time and time again and would ski so much my shins would be?covered with bruises from the relentless pounding. Disordered I tellz ya.
Of course, when I battered my body so severely that I couldn’t ski moguls anymore, I quit skiing altogether. “Ah, skiing is lame!” I would reassure myself. I turned something totally fun, healthy, and an excellent way to use the human body for health and well-being?into something totally abusive, and then into something totally not fun that I convinced myself was not enjoyable. Ah, the human mind! Ya love it, ya hate it.
In the course of my exercise history I somehow turned fun, playful ways of using my body into something that I measured?my worth as a human being against. This morphed into the self-punishing habit of seeing how far I could walk, how many mountains I could climb, and how many days I could survive out in the?wilderness without?resupply. I did it all to somehow prove to myself that I was worthy, capable, strong, tough, and somehow more awesomer than everyone else. And my health suffered dearly for it. Disordered I tellz ya.
This of course is just one way in which a person can?become detached from the body’s natural signals for both?rest and physical movement, but it is very common. In fact, I just lost a good friend the other day to my?willingness to share with?him the ways in which I thought?his inability to stop running marathons despite every possible signal from?his body suggesting it was doing great harm (a continuous 3-week fever and a full cold sore breakout covering mouth, ears, and nose after the last one) was a bizarre act of self-punishment/hatred/mutilation. Caring about someone?else’s well-being and having the?cajones to say what you are fairly certain they need to hear isn’t always well-received. I guess, like Morrissey,I am hated for loving. Okay I’m just pouting at this point… moving along…
Other common ways that?various forms of emotional baggage cloud the body’s natural desires to move in a pleasureful?manner are using exercise as?a form of “work” to “burn calories” in an attempt to “lose weight.”? Nothing?can make exercise more horrendous’than that. And, similar to how I used exercise to exalt myself in comparison to others, many bash exercise to exalt themselves over?people that are more athletic than they are. I have no doubt’that many drowned out their body’s cries for movement way back in their teenage years when they decided that being smart, or artistic, or a musician, or an actor was a superior form of being over those?vain, knuckleheaded jocks and cheerleaders.
Anyway, I’discuss all those and more in this audio recording entitled “Exercise Rehab.”? Maybe it will help you in?your own journey to?figure out?where the shift?in the’tracks occurred that gave you a negative association with exercise, or turned exercise into something you became fanatical about in your quest to uphold the phrase, “pain is weakness leaving the body.”? Ha ha. No, it’s health leaving the body.
After all, exercise is a healthy thing for joint mobility, flexibility, maintaining muscle mass, strength,?and functionality as you age, living longer, living better, and being generally positive and enthusiastic about life… But if, and only if, it is done in congruence with your body’s signals and limitations du jour.?Emotional baggage surrounding the issue that keeps?you from doing it when you?need to, and/or stopping when you need to, must be left behind.
Find out how to RAISE YOUR METABOLISM!!!
I am guilty of the "see how long you can last in the wilderness without resupply" activity. I did learn a lesson when i could not buy a life jacket big enough at an outfitter I said to my self fuck it , we invented canoes I'm not flippin'!…… ha ha damn river showed me who is boss ! I hit fog one night and even though i knew the river good i hit rapids sooner than i thought where i should have portaged … im still here though
I agree about over doing it and when you realize how little is needed it becomes enjoyable.
pushing the limits in the gym can feel good when your not punishing yourself for a donut you ate.
OMG now I understand what went wrong. I chose to be a "thesbian" in high school! That's why the popular kids were always giving me funny looks!
Seriously though, these are all great points. The point about avoiding exercise to differentiate oneself from the "dumb jocks" really hits home for me…
This is really really great. I've been thinking along the same lines lately. This seems like the missing piece (or half) of the puzzle. Not only do we need to stop compulsively controlling our diet, but we need to stop compulsively controlling our physical activity.
You continue to be the awesomest, Matt.
Well put on the gym exercise Chief. It can totally be enjoyed, especially if it's done from the right mental standpoint and is dynamic and varied.
Gazelle-
Yeah, it's just more and more about getting the mind out of the way and letting our greater intelligence get back in the driver seat.
gazelle , well put …
"not only do we need to stop compulsively controlling our diet, but we need to stop compulsively controlling our physical activity"
never really thought about it, that some people avoid things like , i dont do weights i dont want to be all musclee … if people only girls only knew how hard it woul be for them to look like the hulk
It's crazy how much people will go through (like your cold sore covered friend) in order to avoid change and admit a mistake.
It's often easier to just change and improve yourself and the situation then sit there and take the damage.
Nice article Matt.
Matt, thank you so much for posting this. I'm one of those people who has gone from being a child athlete to chubby teen, to self-flagellating fat adult, and exercise has been always a primary component in the framework of punishing myself for not being skinny. I have run, biked, lifted weights, spent countless hours on the elliptical, had gym memberships that have gone neglected, been majorly frustrated in aerobics classes, and, finally, decided that none of it was worth i.
I have been on exercise detox for the past half year. My only form of regular movement has been walking Dog in the morning. And I'd be a lot lazier about it if Dog were to leave me alone on days I neglect to walk him.
But I'm preparing for an endurance event (singing a concert of opera arias) in a couple of months, and I'm thinking of starting to run again. Nothing more strenuous than Couch to 5K. Not as punishment, not as self-validation, nor as compensation for not meeting some arbitrary standard of appearance. I want to do it as cross-training so that I can better perform my primary task. And that, in my mind, is a healthy attitude towards exercise.
I've gotten to the point where I rarely talk to people about health, nutrition, exercise, etc.
It is either ignored or causes an argument. My wife's brother and family was visiting over the holiday and after they left, my MIL snottily said that my SIL wouldn't eat margarine because "it was one step away from plastic" and even though I agree with my SIL, I kept my mouth shut. My MIL has health problems, my FIL had a heart attack and is obese but they are older and set in their ways.
Talking about nutrition is getting to be worse than talking politics or religion.
My new year's resolution this year is to not focus on losing weight. I'm tired of being obsessed with the latest and greatest way to take off fat. Instead I'm looking at my relationship to food, my desire to move my body, and my desire to just live my life.
I have been willing to take on the project of losing weight and working to tone my body, but it always came down to why. Why do I want to work towards that celebrity thin, toned body? It takes so much of my attention that I start to lose contact with the people around me. Not fun. Not healthy.
It was sometime last summer when I came across the 180 blog and became aware of my over exercising, not listening to the signals in my body, eating vegetarian-ish because it was the 'ideal'. I was tired, cranky, a bit dizzy most days, and didn't have that spark of life.
There are days when I question my resolution to let go of the weight loss goal. I see a photo of an ultra thin celebrity and wonder if I'm just playing the part of the fox who can't reach the grapes.
But for now, I'm chilling out about the weight issue. Accepting myself as I am now. Making sure I eat mostly whole, unprocessed foods that taste good. Moving and stretching when the mood strikes me. Seeing where it takes me.
I was reading a Dr. Mercola email the other day and I started thinking that there may be a pattern here. The article was about exercising before breakfast because it reduces insulin resistance. That reminded me of a recent interview I read between Craig Ballantyne and Tim Ferris about his new book. One thing Tim Ferris was saying to do was doing some exercise before eating carbs…
"Tim Ferriss: Oh, right. So I’ll give a simple one because I think for most people they may not want to do the air spots or chest pulls, things like that. So you can increase your muscle cell’s ability to absorb carbohydrates by doing some contractions, muscular contractions, around the time of your meal. So usually what I’ll do is I’ll have an appetizer and then when my entr?e arrives, I’ll go to the bathroom, this is really simple, and put my hands on the wall about shoulder width apart at shoulder height. And then I’ll move my feet back ? so I’m standing straight up ? I’ll move my feet back let’s say foot-and-a-half or two feet, so I’m leaning forward into my hands. And then I’ll just do tricep extensions. And do 30 or 40 of those.
And what that’s going to do ? I did a lot of research into what are called glucose transporters ? and that’s enough to open the channels and allow more carbohydrates to make it into your muscles, in this case your upper body musculature, as opposed to being put right on your abdomen. So that’s another approach to minimizing fat gain when you have to overeat, or when you choose to overeat."
I had read that one of the things that many centenarians have in common is that many of them were raised on a farm. It's typical for a farmer to get up and tend to the animals before breakfast.
Also Jack LaLanne and Bernando LaPallo (age 109) both exercise before breakfast.
I started doing a couple sets of pushups and bodyweight squats before breakfast to test this out. This might be beneficial for someone with high blood sugar. Apparently it doesn't require much exercise.
I would be curious to hear if anyone with a blood glucose monitor tries it.
Chief, were you talking about something similar to this once? I would look for it but searching through the comments of past posts is like looking for a needle in a haystack.
Hey sweatheads,
Listened to some Coach Abel interviews.. and he says train hard or just be some kind of girly man. He said 'it is great to leave it all on the gym floor and just have to lie there for ten minutes because you cannot get up.'
Is this your secret of the new meatier Matt?
Also, Freelee called you overweight on the post on Pacemakers page. You gonna take that .. eh hem, lying down?
xo
lady hagulera
or however it's spelled.
Hey Matt I'll beat Freelea up if you want, just say the word.
Deb, do you have a link to that?
Here is her reply to me saying that she had an eating disorder in the past and that some would say she is still not all that healthy. She sort of freaked out..
Freelee Fruititionist lol ok passing the buck to Matt, nice way to opt out.
What about that blog? I'm glad you linked to his blog actually, hopefully Matt left up all my comments then everyone can actually learn something about nutrition. I had to leave the debate due to the obvious lack of nutritional knowledge. I'm not sure if you have ever done it but It is extremely hard to debate with those who have little understanding of basic physiology.
One unfit, overweight persons (no offence Matt) blog opinion half way across the World proves I'm unhealthy…ok carry on.
about an hour ago ?
Thanks Deb.
Hilarious!
REally hilarious. Those two always keep me in stiches, freelee and harley. Funny fruiteaters are amusing
Thanks Matt, i needed to hear this post! I've been avoiding exercise for a long time, ever since my disastrous 9th grade basketball season where my coach used "run hard til you puke" as punishment. I was unathletic to start with, and this did me in. Dang, i even have a nervous response when i think about it (sweaty palms, etc.) I'm one of the ladies who feels lots better having done rrarf, but can't lose the weight. Recently started tabata exercises (saw on your blog) and i love it! The short intensity really helps- getting to stop after 20 secs is helping me unhinge all exercise from 9th grade basketball practice. Looking forward to regaining that love of movement i had when i was a kid. Thanks Matt!
It's funny… I also slipped into the whole exercise cult. I think it wasn't until I was low-carbing that it got ridiculous.
I knew I was doing more than what my body wanted. My intuition kept nagging at me and I just kept going. In fact, I was progressively adding more. It was an ego thing for sure and probably a body obsession.
Oh well, I got all the time ahead of me to heal.
Charles Eisenstein's book "Transformational Weight Loss" (someone else mentioned it on the 2010 book list comments) is about just this thing, except in relation to eating habits and weight loss, rather than exercise.
kash :) lol
deb,
where is the link ?
palpable will,
yes i have probably said something along those lines a few times recently pretty clearly in inflammation nation near the top of the comments . it is something i have recommended and i do myself when i am not trying to gain fat. ( a little 5 min (or less) workout right before eating).
If I was meeting some friends at a restaurant where you typically have to wait I eat on my way there right after working out this is because of 2 thoughts. Back in the day people worked right up till it was time to eat and second a bunch of medical literature showed improved muscle gains in those who ate directly after working out.
my goal is for proper functioning body not to dodge a few calories at a meal typically in the studies benefits were noticed up to an hour an a half after working out so I'm not big on bathroom calisthenics.
Hi Chief, it's not a link, I just posted her last comment. It is on my friends fb page.
She got all pissed off at my comment, then took it out on Matt while weakly trying to dis both of us.
It's fun to have food fights, but only with people that actually have a point.
:)
Will and Chief,
I used to believe all of that stuff about peri-workout nutrition and the importance of carbs after a workout. Now I know it is a bunch of bull. It is not going to matter at all in the long run if you eat your carbs before or after a workout, what matters is what you take in every 24 hours over weeks. Post workout carb thinking is kind of old news anyways, actually now the "experts" are saying it is more important to have a huge carb spike before a workout not after. Don't believe the hype, this is just "research" promoted by supplement companies to sell more stuff.
Will,
The quote from Tim Ferriss seems incredibly ridiculous. I will never read his book just because of that quote being so horrible. Now you are going to see these college guys in the bathrooms of restaurants doing tricep extensions and actually believing that this is going to send the chocolate cake to their muscles and not to fat. I can't believe he is allowed to spread such lies and disinformation.
When it comes to finding a time to workout, there is nothing special about working out in the morning. Actually, studies have been done to show that humans peak for physical performance in the early evening. You are stronger and more flexible at this time of day.
But, You can train you body to adapt to morning workouts. Working out in the morning has its advantages because it is more likely for people to stick to it. The reason is because most people have more control over the mornings before work than any other time of the day. If you are naturally a morning person then this could be a good option for you. I Love working out and I cannot do it in the morning. I am way weaker and don't get near as good results.
Deb, would you mind asking her please if eating only fruit will make one's breasts grow into the shape of half-cantaloupes? If so, does it have to be cantaloupes or can it be any other fruit? They're freaking expensive at this time of year…thanks.
JT, like i have said before i don't wish to isolate variables but i have seen good results with my methods and this would be part of it. I base some of my support on personal observation as well.
If I work out right before eating i can eat alot more than if i workout and eat hours later. I don't adhere to any concept that eating "too much" is bad or causes any weight gain if the body is asking for it so i take this as a sign that something is going on there.
the main reason i do not pull out studies out of my ass is there is always someone somewhere trying to sell more of something that is in charge of the experiments. That does not mean i cant try somethings based on studies and get good results.
like I said before i don't try to make the chocolate cake go to my biceps instead of my ass it is just well known fact that insulin is a primary driver of nutrients into muscles and why not do something that takes very little time to possible benefit us.
haha cassandra– i agree, if freelee thinks that's the key to her bra size, then i'm starting that diet tomorrow!
i totally agree with this exercise conversation. i have gotten more done in 15 minutes of quick, challenging intervals than the 30min-hour long elliptical sessions i used to have. i leave feeling refreshed and confident, not bored and frustrated.
Chief,
I was saying anything against you personally for doing it. There is nothing wrong with, but there is nothing special about it either. I actually consume protein and carbs before, durning, and after my training, which is what should be done if you believe all of the new research (hype), not just post workout. But, I don't believe any of it, and the only reason I do it is because it is convenient and i can train harder and longer.
I have many years experience focusing on the post workout window, but never really noticed anything great about it. I used to do like you and fast all day workout and then eat huge. Ori was the first to popularize this with his warrior diet. Nothing improved for me doing this, and now I have found the regular bodybuilding style works best for me.
Kash-
You might want to train up first. Perhaps we could wrestle to get you in shape. Don't let Organism see that I just wrote that.
Cassandra-
I think any kind of fruit will do, although papayas aren't much cheaper.
JT and Will-
Yeah, that's kinda why I didn't leave Barnes and Noble with Ferriss's book the other day. I got tired just reading it. Tricep extensions in the bathroom sounds like the male equivalent to sticking your finger down your throat after you eat the chocolate cake.
Also JT, I know that's Abel talking, but good point about the "cumulative effects of training." What matters is the long-term outcome of what you eat and the type, duration, and intensity of the workouts one engages in. That's what influences your physique and health long-term. As for what to eat in and around workouts, make sure to eat plenty of carbs any time you are hungry. Trying to time certain things at certain times is only something that carbo-phobes who are insulin resistant due to their carbophobia have to do.
Eva-
You're in the right place now. I will never let myself lose perspective on what you just said above ever again. What everyone needs to decide is whether it's more important to them to spend time and effort and mental energy wrapped up into making their bodies look a way they won't naturally on their own, or spend that time, effort, and mental energy toward other pursuits.
Deb-
Abel is hardcore, which is what enables his trainees and himself to look un-human. The human body doesn't naturally look like that unless you do indeed train until you're puking in the garbage can or lying on your back (with or without Freelee standing over me telling me that I'm fat – I too would think everyone looks fat if I spent all day hanging around Harley).
I don't apply Abel's training methods to that extent. But you don't need to for getting many of the health results and some changes in body composition. The basic principles are something that apply to everyone though.
Hey Matt
Such a sad tale, wreckin' knees an' all, under the chair-lift.
I took skiing up for the buzz in my mid-30's, but went to powder, off-piste and back-country, maybe because of my rock-climbing and mountaineering background. It is still a buzz, 30-some years later, for up to 6 weeks a year. I do the bumps as they arise in the course of wrecking a fresh snowfall.
I never trained for sports at school, then took up rock-climbing – again – for the buzz. Did some climbing practice on local outcrops when not in the mountains. This was before climbing walls were invented. Looking back on it, it was training, but not gym-work or other exercise.
It was ENJOYABLE.
Exercise as a "health drill" or to "lose fat" or for some other "duty" does not work.
Whatever it may be, unless it is the adult form of a child's active play, and therefore ENJOYED, "fugget aboud it".
Deb,
Matt is right, yo don't have to puke every time you do his workouts to get benefit. I have been doing his workouts for over a year and a half and I don't pass out after every time. His whole point is just that people don't push themselves hard enough and put intensity into it. I see this all the time at the gym with people just going through the motions, and they probably wont get any results from it either. I see this especially with women who have not athletic training background.
Matt,
Yeah, I got that from Abel. Pretty much all of the conclusions regarding training have come from failure with other systems and success with his. I have learned a lot, but sometimes I just wish I hadn't made so many mistakes when I was younger.
All you guys that are gymaphobic need to realize that just because it is in a gym doesn't mean it can't be enjoyable. I really love working out at the gym. I feel better during and after than I did before. It is a great way to break up the day and feel refreshed when I go at lunch, and it is a great way to unwind from work when I do it in the evening before going home.
On the boobs of the Free of Lee:
Those are bought and paid for my dear. No melon eating will get you those melons, just cold hard cash.
Oh and in case anyone has not done the most terrifying raw vegan extreme then gone back to real food, first thing that returns is the boobage. Yeah, the female body is an amazing thing. Turns out you actually need those fun bags around.
As for Abel, yeah, he's a monster of a guy. I like his attitude but I am not planning on leaving anything on the gym floor, especially this carcass of mine.
I like a little to take home for later. :)
Great comeback to F.L. on FB Mattie, I dare not type her or D's name as I am sure they have google alerts and get all hopped up on banana smoothies when anyone talks about them.
:)
Ok Here is Matt's reply to F. Lee and then I will post the most hilarious reply ever by her partner in banana land:
Matt Stone I have performed many great feats of human endurance, including walking 700k in 44 days carrying 40kg on my back. It wasn't necessarily healthy. Jim Fixx was a hell of a runner too, then he dropped dead. Being fit doesn't equate to health. I know Harley has mentioned many of his cycling buddies dying. They were all way fitter than I am.
I've also been a lot leaner than you or Harley. My health was worse at that time, not better. Even the pig's head photos – those are total propaganda for me. You can't see what my digestion is like, smell what I smell like, hear the thoughts in my head. Many, if not most health gurus on the internet suffer from the same thing whether they realize it or not. I certainly didn't at the time. I had convinced myself that I was the knower of all things health.
That's why putting up pictures of Dougie Graham flexing vs. Aajonus who is sedentary doesn't really mean squat. Both guys are balding prematurely, which is a greater risk factor for heart disease than being at my weight (BMI 29). I started losing my hair when I was wicked lean and going on 200km bike rides and other things that I foolishly patted myself on the back only to find out they were destroying me later on.
Notice, none of these are personal insults directed at you, they are just things that go on commonly all over the internet. We've all been guilty of going a little overboard with our perception of ourselves, the infallibility of our diets, our moral superiority, and so on.
Instead, I try to look more objectively at things, and my followers do too, which is why we have an ongoing conversation about nutrition and related matters instead of putting all of our faith in the sweet nectar dripping off of one guru's abdominal muscles while regurgitating it blindly when in fact, the odds of most of anyone's theories on health are wrong.
2 hours ago ? Unlike ? 2 people
HERE IS D R"S REPLY: (Try not to pee your pants everyone)
Durianrider Vegano Matt your BMI is 29? What happend to you bro. You used to be fit.
I thought fruit made people fat and fat made people lean but judging by the fat promoters they ALL are at varying levels of chubbiness eventually. Hey my Mum has a bmi of 29 and I still love her.
I like taking advice from people getting the results I desire. Lance Armstrong is back in town and I will see if I can get another youtube with him about cycling tips for newbies.
If someone goes from super fit to sedentary bmi of 29, its like Mercola and his 2:50 marathon pb to now just using the stair master to burn of his whey protein.
Fat makes you healthier and fitter? No whey! (pun intended.)
4 minutes ago ? Like
I think I know most of you will answer this in the affirmative but what do you think of the Cheat Day concept?
I know the HED is sort of everyday is a cheat day, but what about doing great six days a week then pulling a Martin Berkham and cheesecake galore on the seventh?
Thoughts?
JT,
I rarely take anything as a personal attack if you could see me here , im a pretty mellow guy, all I was saying out of all the things i do it requires little effort and we cant really say definitively based on research(hype).
I have not seen any thing saying it was harmful so .. to each his own. I am pretty sure at this point i will not be jumping on any bandwagons, Il stick with the traditional approach because if it ain't broke don't fix it.
Deb,
A cheat day can be good or bad depending on the person or the situation. It is a strategy that has been around for a long time. If you are extremely strict and low calorie during the six days then a day off to eat whatever you want could give you a bit of a metabolic boost and a mental break from the dieting. I personal prefer free meals a couple times during the week as it makes my life much more flexible and enjoyable.
If you are really interested in this style of eating you should check out the Cycle Diet on Abel's forum. They have refined this style of eating more than anyone else.
Hi
I see your point and for many it is exactly that, something to focus on, so we do not have to focus on the things that make us feel bad. Its not just training, it is how we approach life that is the "problem"
Deb,
cheat day for me has worked from a phycological standpoint to defer certain things to a different day.
ill be rockin it in my fat loss quest but in my experience it starts to become less appealing with time.
after a while it's starts to be every 2 weeks then once a month then ??? who knows how long i will use it for experiments in eating as well, i think i might try 50 bananas in a day soon…
Chief,
Glad you didn't think I was insulting you. I also am extremely laid back, if you asked anybody who knows me they would tell you that I am the most laid back person they know. The funny thing is that I don't think my writing style conveys this. Some people seem to interpret it as being harsh, but it is not my intention at all.
Regarding your training styles, I see what you are doing now since you listed Pavel and Rippetoe as being your favorites. I have not had success with their styles of training, but they have the best quotes out there. Pavel is pretty funny, but you should check out some of the thread with Rippetoe's quotes. He is hilarious.
JT,
i just think for someone starting out or just needing to get the fundamentals down those 2 are the only 2 that get to the point with solid ideas I don't really follow any one style or training regime. I have grabbed little things here and there and did alot of experimenting on my own.
JT,
I should clarify a few things.
I wasn't doing exercise before breakfast as my "exercise routine" (if that makes any sense). It is something that takes about 2 or 3 minutes and isn't particularly strenuous. Just a little activity in the form of a few pushups and bodyweight squats. My goal wasn't performance or hypertrophy oriented, but was to see if I could lower my blood sugar from it.
Looking back, Tim Ferris wasn't a good example because he was doing it for physique enhancement purposes.
I still stick by my other examples of Jack LaLanne, Bernando LaPallo, Academcian Amasov (see Pavel Tsatsouline's writings), farmers, etc., as examples of folks who do some sort of activity before breakfast and tend to live long lives.
Once I actually start working out again, most likely I will train later in the day, but if I notice a decrease in blood sugar (last dr.'s visit it was getting higher) I will keep the morning exercise ritual.
Hope that clears up my stance on that.
Will
Should have known this 15 years ago.
Question: Is it normal to feel sore 24h post-workout? I feel pretty much fine right afterwards, but then like 12-24h later it hits me, suddenly I feel 50 years older.
DEBBIE-
Fun bags! Ha ha ha! Awesomeness!
I don't even know where to start.. When did I first get an unhealthy relationship to sport or training in general? Hmm.. Well I have ALWAYS done sports. My whole life. Ballet, handball, soccer, swimming, indoor rollerskating -you name it, I've done it!
I guess it started as soon as I hit The Gym. That't when the childish fun left and the lean mean training machine entered!
People always asked how I could find motivation and energy to train every day. I replied; I'm like a machine (how sad is that?)I don't think about it, I just do it!
And that is litterally how I have been living my life. I've always been good at giving others advice (personal training) in when to train and when to rest. Always made it an importence to really listen to your body. Not over diet or over train. Sadly I just never practice what I preached. I am paying for that now though.
I don't know how to regain a healthy relationship with exercise.
I can't seem to train without becoming somewhat of an masochist. It's so hardwired in me..
Hi,
I begin on internet with a directory
Hans,
Yep, totally normal. It's referred to as DOMS (Delayed Onset Muscle Soreness). I don't know if they ever actually figured out what causes it or not. They ruled out lactic acid buildup but the last I heard it may be from inflammation related to microtrauma, but I don't follow that stuff so close anymore. :-)
Sheila, interesting story and very simular to my own in every way, started off with sports and love for activity but things got ugly in the gym days….
Also I am good at giving laid back advice and advising people on not overdoing stuff in the gym or with diet, yet I push myself too hard in both these aspects and don't like the feeling of not having a workout or losing control of my diet. Have paid for it with my health but things are getting better.
Gonna try get over it 2011, have been off to a good start so far taking quite a few days off and letting things go with diet. Also planning to take up some regular Yoga and less weight training/cardio.
Sheila and Chris,
You are putting the blame where it doesn't belong. There is no good reason to think playing sports and hiking is better or less damaging than going to the gym. Either can be beneficial or harmful depending on how you do it and why. So the blame is on the person not the activity.
JT: Thats true but I think we both meant it more in the way that once the gym started so did obsession and all that comes with it in the health/fitness game (healthy eating, when to eat, how much, obsessing over food etc etc…..) as did exercising in pursuit of an aesthetic goal and out of desire for fat loss or muscle gain rather than pure pleasure.
As well as this I am convinced that weight training puts more strain on the CNS than any sports would. This for me lead to nervous disorders (psychological and physical).
Also JT I have noticed you do Bikram Yoga, what is your take on the amount of sweating and minerals lost? I have tried it in the past and liked it but questioned the intensity and length and whether or not it was having a real positive impact……..
Leon-
Wise words my friend. It is tragic that I let my competitive nature get the best of skiing. Don't get me wrong though. I've had plenty of amazing runs far away from moguls or people or a chairlift. My last 2 years skiing at Jackson Hole I ONLY skied on powder days due to back injury (hard surfaces always left me limping through the parking lot after 2 runs). And I did it for fun.
But ultimately, fun wasn't enough to get me out there to do it anymore (or work extra hours to pay for the skiing habit, lol).
But I've got plenty of years ahead of me to rehab my relationship with exercise and sport and I've made great progress over the last 7years or so since I quit skiing.
Speaking of rehab I think JT is right about being able to reinvent gym exercise, and Abel's workouts help because they are fun as hell – especially once you've sort of customize them to your own preferences. I don't fantasize all day about what I'm going to look like or even walk into the gym for results. I fantasize about doing the movements themselves just like a dancer or athlete might.
Reverse hyperextensions on a stability ball are a lot more fun than anything I ever did on a playground growing up.
@Deb re: F. Lee and the juicy fruiters, let's not forget the valuable lesson those two taught us: that you can eat 3000+ calories a day and your (natural) body can stay incredibly lean. Those guys may be nuts, but they do seem to be disproving calories in/calories out, no?
I hear you with the disordered. I can relate all too much…..And sorry your friend didn't take it too well when you said what you felt. Hope he'll come around someday soon.
"I became an amazing mogul skier that continued to use exercise as a means of upholding my status as a human being."
I can totally relate to that. For example, I feel so much pressure to be "good at" yoga. I realize this couldn't be a bigger contradiction, but it's there. It seems common in today's power-yoga classes to have it be about who's the coolest and bestest. It's no longer spiritual and under the yogic ideals of "no comparison, no competition", but it's about who can do the craziest arm stands. I always feel super inferior and inadequate and imperfect in yoga class. My best bet is always to close my eyes and get into how it feels inside my body.
I actually go to yoga class now more for the emotional and psychological well being it brings me than for the idea of becoming better at it or loosing weight. Nothing beats the feeling of calm and balance I experience after a good class.
"In the course of my exercise history I somehow turned fun, playful ways of using my body into something that I measured?my worth as a human being against."
I also had a similar experience with ballet as a kid. I used to go to this young kids "ballet" and just jump around and run across a big room and laugh and totally love life. Then we moved, I began training at another studio and it was totally cold and dead and boring and awful. I later got totally stuck in that cause someone else thought I had a perfect ballet body. Ended up training 7 days a week for years, totally miserable and depressed. I finally got the courage to quit and no one understood why. People thought I wanted to be a ballerina and I was just staring at them going "what? me?" I just got sucked into it somehow cause of what someone else thought I should do. Ever the people pleaser. "I'll dance if that's what you think I should do." lol.
btw, nothing detaches you more from pain than dancing on pointe shoes….it's really bloody and dirty…..not swan like at all.
On the whole Tim Ferris quote about bathroom tricep extensions:
I agree with JT… this is incredibly ridiculous. It borders on obsessive. It's basically the male equivalent of all those check-out lane magazines… "Amazing fat loss techniques!", "Lose the belly in 30 days!". It's antithetical to what we're trying to accomplish here. Our whole idea is to be getting back in touch with our bodies and doing things for enjoyment.
Personally I have been studying up somewhat on Abel and Rippetoe, but look to it more as a challenge and to see what it would be like to experience that kind of training. If I don't like it, I'll stop doing it. I really like Rippetoe. You can tell he's more about creating and supporting a sound, healthy body than some sort of bullshit physique enhancement. As for gym time, again I agree with JT… it's all in your perception.
I made my first new years resolution ever this year (inspired by this blog). I am no longer going to judge myself. The impetus was post low-carb belly fat, but it applies to all aspects of self-judgment.
Anybody looking to be rail thin as some holy-grail of health. Look around. Even among healthy, low-stress, meditate every day, eat healthy organic foods type people, a lot of people still do not have flat stomachs. Not what I would call fat, but enough to start a body-image issue in our culture.
Take the Linda Bacon approach. Ask yourself what you think it is leanness is going to get you, and then ask yourself if the leanness is necessary, or you can get those things anyway. And really pay attention. You'll learn that leanness doesn't matter.
Matt,
"Trying to time certain things at certain times is only something that carbo-phobes who are insulin resistant due to their carbophobia have to do."
Thanks man, that cracked me up.
Love me some Bacon, just had some with some eggs in butter and some fresh cracked mac nuts.
@ gazelle: Yeah but I don't buy that theory of calorie in/out anyway. I don't need screaming fruitheads to make me aware of it! :)
Peat Heads, take a listen to this!!
Ray Peat Speaks!
He sounds like he is a bit wobbly, but man that guys knows his science. His info on pufa's is really interesting although he seems to have trouble actually answering the questions he is asked :)
http://www.blogtalkradio.com/eastwesthealing/2010/11/18/the-science-behind-the-dangers-of-polyunsaturated-fats-with-ray-peat-phd
LISA_
"I later got totally stuck in that cause someone else thought I had a perfect ballet body. Ended up training 7 days a week for years, totally miserable and depressed. I finally got the courage to quit and no one understood why. People thought I wanted to be a ballerina and I was just staring at them going "what? me?" I just got sucked into it somehow cause of what someone else thought I should do."
If you put in bodybuider instead of ballerina, then this story is like reading my own.
This is exactly how I got into bodybuilding. Because what someone else thought of me. I just went for the ride. As a matter of fact, I enjoyed my ballet classes more and would rather have stuck with that.
Does anyone have any opinions on the P90X exercise program? Does it fall in the "Metabolic exercise" category as defined by Matt in his most recent addendum to 180d Metabolism. Any thoughts on this would be helpful.
Andy
I want to give anotehr plug to Frank Forencich and Exuberant Animal- he's all about re-habbing our relationship to movement, and connecting to the joy of using our bodies, free of guilt or shame or self-loathing. In practice, he also stresses integrative, multi-plane movements, and like Abel, sees our neurological system as key, nto simply our musculo-skeletal system.
Here's a video of his 'short-form' warm up:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ilZK35EvrRo&feature=player_embedded
Gazelle,
No the fruitariana do not disprove the calorie equation. It is a physical fact and it is time to move past all of pointless questioning of something so certain.
The fruitariana do a TON of exercise. Also their is the issue of absorption, anyone on a high fruit diet will tell you that the have frequent bowel movements, so it probably doesn't all get absorbed. It is possible that the fruitarian diet speeds up the metabolism and causes you to burn more calories, but it doesn't disprove that the fact that of calories in and out when it comes to weight. It just means you burn more calories.
AaronF,
Let me reiterate that Tim Ferriss was a bad example. My whole point was that maybe some activity before breakfast could be beneficial for reducing blood sugar…that's all. You won't find me in the men's room doing burpees or anything like that, LOL!
On another note,this was the first year that I actually made a resolution (to eat more veggies) but in past years when people would ask me what my New Years Resolutions were, I would tell them "to not make any resolutions." :-)
AaronF,
Actually Rippetoe is not that into health. He is into as getting as big and strong as possible, but powerlifter big, not lean bodybuilder big. He has mentioned several times that the key to his program is to gain as much weight as possible by eating a Ron and drinking a gallon of milk ever day. So he sees nothing wrong with gaining a lot of fat because you need to get bigger to get stronger. His only objective is to increase strength by increasing external load. This is the exact opposite of Abel who doesn't care about external load. Instead of focusing on external the focus is on the internal of working the muscle and how it feels.
Hey JT, How does Rippetoe 'eat a Ron'. ;)
Chris,
If you have ever done any wrestling or combat sports you would see that there can be a lot more strain on the CNS from sports than from lifting weights. And if there is any sport that is natural to humans it is grappling and combat sports, just look how much kids love to wrestle. Also, you don't have to lift like a powerlifter, you are better off training like Matt.
No, I don't worry about losing too much sweat or minerals from Bikram. I do lose 5 pounds of sweat during a class, so this proably isn't a good idea for some.
Do you notice you have a lot of emotion in the form of fear in how you relate to exercise? You are worried about frying your CNS liftin weights and losing too many minerals doing yoga.
Thats funny. Probably the same way he eats a Deb! I am typing from my iPhone and it automatically changes some of the words I write.
JT Too funny! I hope he does not try to hunt me down and eat me. He probably heard that my body fat is up due to RRARF ing.
On the exercise deal:
I am competitive. I think I should lift as heavy as my instructors, do everything just like they do, work just as crazy hard etc even though said instructors are usually
a. much younger
b. most of the time much stronger than I
This attitude has gotten me all sorts of fun injuries and lots of metal stress. My new attitude is focus on my skills not my bar weight, act my age not my shoe size and do what works for me, even stopping if an exercise is really killing me beyond 'the burn' and see everything as a fun social time.
I enjoy it so much more and feel so much stronger.. and have not injured myself yet.
xo
Thats great Deb. I also learned that lesson the hard way. I injured myself many times focusing on the external load and trying to compare myself to others. Now that I don't do that anymore it has become enjoyable and my injuries started going away. And, I have made better progress.
I gots a slightly off-topic question. I've never used RSS feeds before. I saw that you can subscribe to 180DH and I guess I can link that to my Windows Live Mail, but do you also get a feed whenever comments are posted? Or do you have to get a feed from each comments page?
Thanks!
@The Real Will, when you subscribe to the comments feed you get comments from ALL posts combined. It's like crack in your RSS feed (if you're a 180DH junkie).
You can also subscribe to just posts.
does anyone have any knowledge about homeopathic/natural remedies for ulcers? i think i have one.
Speaking of ballet, I watched the movie Black Swan the other night. During the movie all I could think about is how this girl's issues come from her diet disorder. She's throwing up all the time and at one point she turns down a bite of cake… cmon. Extreme hunger does cause delusional episodes.
I don't if you guys have this problem but I keep seeing people and situations in terms of diets, like in my head every person's good/bad problem and how they deal with it keeps getting pushed in with foods they eat. After reading Price's book, every time I meet someone new now I just automatically look at their nose and teeth. My friends will be like "check her ass" but I am too busy checking her narrowed nostrils.
Its been over a year since I got into all this researching food business, and now it feels like its part of me. I am ready to focus on something new and make eating a background in my life. Hmm… I'm thinking obsessing over my finances in the upcoming year.
JT,
He eats a little deb snack cake maybe ?
Im guessing you meant ton and not ron
there is more to what he talks about than eating and external load. he gets pretty geeky at times
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ht363HslwnM&feature=channel
I for one did not know much about training when I started just did heavy duty work like choppin' wood
and occasionally went to the gym. I'm naturally pretty strong. Some people saw how I looked assumed I knew something and started asking for help so I started reading so i could be sure i wasn't hurting people with my advice. I do not take everything Rippetoe says as gold but I definitely have learned some things that I apply. My view is take what you can if it helps good if it doesn'
t then don't. Just because you got nothing from him does not mean others cant.
Deb
thanks for linking ray peat :)
JT,
Your quote :
"Also their is the issue of absorption, anyone on a high fruit diet will tell you that the have frequent bowel movements, so it probably doesn't all get absorbed. It is possible that the fruitarian diet speeds up the metabolism and causes you to burn more calories, but it doesn't disprove that the fact that of calories in and out when it comes to weight. It just means you burn more calories."
you are in essence proving the calorie in calorie out mentality bullshit … you describe an open system where the amount eaten does not equal a definitive weight gain. Nobody ever said the calories magically disappear that I know of. anyone that has ever (intelligently) questioned the calorie in/out intuitively know that counting calories makes no sense when there are many variables in the system that make it so a "surplus " of calories does not become body fat because we see it all around us people who can eat whatever and never get fat.
Hey, questions for anyone willing to answer.
I am diagnosed prediabetic, and am doing HED high carb, some fat, some meat. I am doing three meals a day. My concerns are
My BG instead of having better clearance, is going higher. Much higher. My 2 hour postprandial has gone from 90-100 in the beggining, steadily up to 120's and 130's
My fasting is up as well.
Acne and bacne are bad.
Been trying at this over a month. Is there any reason I should be doing smaller meals? I know that is what mainstream says. 5-6 meals… I am doing three. Is there something I am doing wrong?
Thanks
Chief,
You are right it is more complicated than just how many calories you take in. It is an open system and you could change the variables by doing things like purging or take laxatives or eat indigestible foods so that you don't absorb the calories. To be honest I am not really sure what your were trying to convey.
I am not promoting the practice of obsessive calorie counting as a healthy way of life. But, Too many people have been lead to a false belief that it doesn't matter, then they end up getting bigger and they don't know why. This causes them more suffering and I would like to help those that are suffering due to these false beliefs. At least then they can make an informed decision.
I have to admit that whenever I have eaten a high fruit diet I lose weight rapidly and i am extremely hungry. So who knows, maybe the fruitarians do have a metabolic advantage. After reading Ray Peat you may believe this as well.
Thanks Gazelle!!!!
Now I just need how to get that subscription into Windows Live Mail, LOL!
Thanks again!
JT – In regards to the fear from relating to exercise I see your point, It is something I need to address as the subconscious is very powerful…. I am interested though as to why you brought up the issue? is it something you think is much more psychological than physical in my case?
I think it stems from the negative effects that I have noticed after going too hard with any sports, especially weight lifting (mood down, bad sleep, anxiety, depression etc….)
I like your point on grappling stuff. The sports I played while growing up where a mix of football (soccer), tennis and kickboxing. From what I can tell these have nowhere near the effect on the CNS of weight training. Although if I play tennis hard for 1 hour plus I can feel pretty whacked for the rest of the day and negative symptoms can manifest, which wasn't always the case. Only started after 2 years of stubborn starch free eating (semi paleo), fighting my body.
@Me
I was in the pre-diabetic stages too. In the first three months, I ate 4 meals with snacks, not sure if that helped. Currently I eat three very large mixed meals per day, sometimes with fruits snacks in between. Took me about 3 months to get BG levels to what some would consider the normal levels.
85 Fasting
100 – 1hr post meal
115/120 – 2hr post meal
85 – 3hr post meal
My acne and bacne are still present, but it is getting better, though I am almost at 16 months trying this. I think the acne for me will take lots of time to completely go into remission. I have not been doing exercise, so I am curious to see what will happen when I start some MET training later in January, with respect to my skin…
Guess what I am saying is time is a factor
Undertow: Awesome Numbers! no exercise at all? Wow, I bet when you add it in slowly you will really see good results.
Andy-
From what I know of P90X I think it's probably really good. Nothing can substitute for "feeling" your own workout though in terms of how many reps, how much rest in between, and so forth – but as a general program I've heard mostly good things. In fact, when it comes to exercise I think there have been some major mainstream breakthroughs in modern times (unlike mainstream nutrition, which is more like, breakdowns). Even the most mainstream exercise person, Jillian Michaels, is pretty much right on with "metabolic exercise."
Me-
It's typical, because you are eating more food and more carbohydrates, to have an initial rise in postprandial glucose. After all, you are injecting more glucose. Higher numbers are expected at first until your body becomes more adept at "clearing" it.
120-130 mg/dl 2 hours after a meal is certainly not ideal, but it's hardly grounds for a diabetes panic attack.
What you are looking for is to turn the corner. When you see BG numbers starting to fall after the initial rise, you know that you are headed in the right direction.
I'd be happy to take a much closer look at your diet, your history, your current health situation, your prediabetes diagnosis, your fasting numbers, your meal frequency, and all that for you if you like. You can email me at sacredself@gmail.com
One way or another we'll troubleshoot it until you are on the right track.
Chris,
You said that these negative symptoms started manifesting after 2 years of starch free paleo dieting. Same thing happened to me from this type of diet, but the problem wasn't my CNS, it was my adrenals. I ended up developing severe cortisol insufficiency. matt dealt with similar issues as well on this diet, so maybe he will chime in.
This is one reason why I think these paleo diets suck so bad. They demonize starch, but i am more and more conviced that McDougall is right, and humans are primarily starch eaters. I feel so sorry for these people.
Regarding the fear, I couldn't really guess unless i met you in person and knew more about your background. But, if it started when after you paleo dieting then it is probably physical. Having low cortisol will make you shaky and weak and can make people feel panic and fear. Try to get tested to find out if this is the case.
Thanks undertow
When did you reintroduce fruit?
@Me
Since I was trying to kept fructose low in the beginning, re-introduced at around 10 months. But I doubt you would have to wait that long. I don't eat fruit everyday, probably most of it on the weekend these days.
At 10 months I tried to eat 5 to 6 pieces a day in between meals, hoping to aid gut flora and acne, but it did nothing. BG's and weight set point stayed the same even with fruit added.
Thanks. Yeah this ance is crap.
Not sure if this is OT, but what is anyones thoughts on tim ferriss and slow carb and 4 hour body?
@ JT: Thanks for the reply, I am convinced that my problem is cortisol insufficiency primarily but also some kind of CNS damage due to all the high intensity exercise I did while eating Paleo (plus most of the exercise was fasted)…
What test did you get done to check? I would really like to check things out properly as my negative symptoms have been going on too long and while they are improving surely since "eating the food" my physical tolerance to stress of any kind is far from what it should be for someone in their early 20's.
Also do you believe in any naturopathic remedies for healing the adrenals? things like holy basil, ashwagandha etc……..
@ Matt: I would also love to hear any other ideas you have for dealing with severe adrenal fatigue….
Undertow: do you eat yogurt or dairy or drink kombucha? Might help your gut flora flower :)
Ok, this is my first 'cheat day' and I am really noticing that I normally wear "You cannot eat that" blinders. It is really crazy what you don't even 'see' at the store when you are always saying "don't eat that, don't eat that. not for me etc".
I bought some dark chocolate carmel pecan thing that was really tasty, ate like 3. Then I dove into the sweet potato chips.. got a few handfuls down and starting feeling kind of ill. I plan to eat dinner with some tri tip salad at Wood Ranch and make some raw milk ice cream with choc chips today.
My appetite is already falling off a cliff, as Matt says it does. And I noticed my heart is going a bit faster and I am full of energy too. Could it be the call of the metabolism to the rescue or the caffiene in the chocolate??
There is something to this stuff. Eating clean/whole foods etc all week, then having free reign really makes you NOT want the crap the rest of the time or possibly ever again. I have a feeling after a few weeks of this I will be done and over with it, with an occasional cheat meal.
It is liberating to just EAT THE FOOD and some junk to free your mind.
Stay tuned!
deb xo
Deb,
If your heart is speeding up after what you eat then it could be food allergies, I think this is a fairly common response the body has to foods it doesn't react well too. Be careful with the cheat day, they are not for everyone.
Chris,
I would look for a professional that has experience dealing with this. I had multiple tests done to verify my cortisol insuficiency. Saliva, urine, and blood tests were all done and all showed the same thing.
I tried all the herbal natural remedies and I worked with some Ayurvedic docs. I also took prescription hydrocortisone. I did it all, so maybe the whole thing combined is what worked. Don't self treat by reading things on the internet, have an experienced professional work with you.
Hey JT
Could be, but I am usually caffiene free so the one two punch of sugar and caffiene could have me on a heart pounding high. Or I am just giddy about actually eating whatever I feel like stuffing down my pie hole.
:)
xo
deb
JT,
you said :
"Too many people have been lead to a false belief that it doesn't matter, then they end up getting bigger and they don't know why"
this is true they do not know why, and while it obviously requires calories to create fat the lack of consciously monitoring the intake is not the reason why they are becoming fatter. Which is what it seems you are alluding to.
In reality, It starts within the body, this need for calories and any attempt to undermind it is futile. If it wants to create fat it will find a way even if it has to make a person sleepwalk to the fridge and night binge or down-regulate the metabolism to get the best use out of the limited calories provided.
Some people will see short term results restricting only to find that down the road they are fat again because they never got rid of the need for the fat they only did not give the fire any fuel. People need to divert their attention away from the calories eaten as they have no direct causative effect on fat accumulation they are a simply the building material the body uses to build. It's like yelling at home depot for supplying too much wood when the architect asked for it.
the real focus should be on making the body work properly and it will not need the calories in question. It simply will not be appealing to eat them and will not occupy their thoughts. Any accidental overages will just be "used up" by various processes the body has and also down grade the future appetite signals. it's not that the calories don't count, it is that they don't matter for a person trying to get rid of excess fat.
Chief, I like to yell at Home Depot just to cause trouble.
It's the way I roll.
:)
Chief,
A problem you have is that you think people are fat because they are "broken". This is not true. They are just better suited for an environment where calories aren't so easy to come by. In this more primitive environment they would be the ideal. This is why so many of the more traditional cultures thought it was such a status symbol to be fatter.
People have different metabolic setpoints. One isn't better than the other. Just like there are St Bernards and chihuahuas there are different types of people. You will have a natural body type and if you want to change from a St bernard to a chihuahua you will have some extreme calorie restriction and hunger to deal with. There is nothing wrong with being a big dog, just try to be a healthy functional one.
I think I might agree with some of your ideas, but I am still not sure of your view yet because I don't know what it is. I look forward to you laying it out concisely so that we can understand.
"I think I might agree with some of your ideas, but I am still not sure of your view yet because I don't know what it is. I look forward to you laying it out concisely so that we can understand."
I agree
DEB, didn't fighting the man die out in the 80's ?
:P
Jt,
it can be because they are broken and it can be because they are functioning perfectly fine as well. gaining fat is a natural protection mechanism only thing with these "non- broken " bodies, they "sense" an upcoming famine. At the same time being ultra efficient the body will not carry pounds of fat that make mobility less effective when it is sure no starvation is approaching. It's funny you mention dogs wild animals are never found fat in the wild with the exception of hibernation but in the industrial age we have plenty domesticated fatties. There are human equivalent of st-Benards no doubt but a st benard who has a gut that drags on the floor I highly doubt we are meant for that.
if what you are saying was true i would not be able to do it without hunger or restriction ( become a normal st-benard that is :)
working on the lay out as we speak..
Chief,
If what I am saying is true, then you definitely would be able to become a normal st-bernard without restriction, as long as you ate a natural diet. You just wouldn't be able to to become a ripped pit bull or waify chihuahua.
This is the problem, all of these people want to be something that is not natural for them. They want to completely change into a different body type, and to make it even worse they want to do it without any effort.
grass fed momma,
I'd agree that it was the 1-2 punch of caffeine & sugar in the chocolate (plus the take-down moves from god knows what else is in there). Over the last few years, I've periodically given up all forms of caffeine for weeks / months at a time, and every time I re-introduced even a small amount I'd notice my heart rate skyrocket.
Check out the book, "Caffeine Blues: Wake Up to the Hidden Dangers of America's #1 Drug" by Stephen Cherniske for some . It's extensively referenced with heaps of studies.
Also check out:
http://www.relfe.com/caffeine.html
Ian2.
Jt,
I agree that many people want to be something they are not at the same time I do not think we are genetically destined to be 200 pounds overweight and bed ridden. I also do not think that things of that nature are 100% due to an unnatural diet. I would say 90% of the people that ask me for help have legitimate goals that do not aspire to be unnatural so i do not think that is the problem like you said.
Im not talking about supermodels that say "I feel fat" i'm taking about what just about anyone would consider to be fat weather or not they want to be politically correct in public. The point where weight gets in the way of living is by all means not natural and completely rectifiable. Some girls have more junk in the trunk than others, I say love thy booty. some guys have abs but Im not gonna aspire to have em. We cant change our genetics but some people take that idea too far. The thrifty gene theory is bullshit even today with way less animals in the wilderness from pollution and whatnot I can still easily survive without starving. The idea that some people are destined to be a great deal fatter than others can not be right when that number is statistically increasing at a rate to fast for even a marvel comics level of mutation.
I'm simply saying loving oneself should not extend to using a wheel to carry around a belly.I think with minimal effort we can all lead happy and fulfilling lives. Going from a 300 pound guy to a 180 pound guy does not require any conscious food restriction or calorie counting but if he is not meant to be a 120 pound guy ( chihuahua ) it's not gonna happen. that does not mean he was meant to be a 300 pound guy either.
the most amazing thing just happened to me. I haven't been eating sugar in a few weeks. I've just been eating about one or two pieces of fruit a day along with normal meals to provide some transition. Today, I declared "treat" day, and I planned to have some extra fruit and some semisweet chocolate as part of my "treat." This way I don't feel deprived even though I'm cutting out something I once would have considered a food group.
ANYWAY, what happened was I went to grab the semi-sweet chocolate chips I've eaten compulsively since I was a child (even pre-eating issues) and heat them up to spread on a banana. I ate a few– and thought GROSS! TOO SWEET!
WHO AM I? I have eaten these things since I was a kid, when my sister and I were only allowed 30 after lunch and dinner as our dessert.
Long story short. RRARF kills sugar cravings. I didn't really even want the chocolate, it was more psychological than anything else.
wheezy, that is awesome! It is true, my cheat day with all it's splendor ending up being:
I apple
those chocolate/carmel things
1/2 a bag of sweet potato chips
I string cheese stick
One tri tip salad with corn and veggies.
I am done.
Not that much of a cheat but I did not want anything more.
crazy how this shiz works!
deb
weezy, Deb
cheat day is quite awesome in that respect, I have been there with the "Gross!!! too sweet" thing.
been trying to make sense of it and how it relates. I feel strongly that when you do not "need" the calorie dense source it becomes less appetizing but also you have to wonder about what matt describes as the PCAT and how that might relate as well, simply not activating over the corse of weeks.
crazy none the less cheat day.
Might have to find guinea pigs and throw them on a Seth Robets-esque tasteless as hell but high calorie diet and throw in a cheat day and see what happens.
In recently analyzation of what it is I do I think there may be some merit to his ideas, although not the end all be all.
Funny how when i originally saw his book in the library thought it was a just a run of the mill quacky diet book.
"They are just better suited for an environment where calories aren't so easy to come by."
That environment would be exactly what? The arctic?
I think the notion that calories were hard to get in the natural human environment is false. That's the whole magic of nature and ecosystems. As long as there are no drastic environmental changes occuring, everything is pretty much in balance and every species has it's own niche where it gets along quite well. And even if resources where sparse, those individuals that would tend to have the most hunger and get the least calories, would die the soonest, so that the majority of the population which manages to procreate probably still would consist of individuals who would not have to fight for every calorie.
Especially when taking into account modern "primitive" peoples, i.e. the Kitavans who have no problem with letting excess food rot or feeding it to the dogs, I really do not see why omnivorous and highly intelligent humans of all species would be the ones to constantly have to struggle to find food.
JT-
I see what your saying about not trying to go below your natural body type. As for me, my natural body type or weight is NOT where I am right now. I am about 14 kg's above my natural weight set-point (counting in some more muscle too)
I used to eat 3200+ calories while decreasing bodyfat, in my early twenties. How do I know that? Because I was counting them.
Here in my late twenties, doing the same exercise, eating less than half of what I did before, I started loosing muscle and slowly putting on more fat instead. It has a HUGE effort for me to keep my (normal)weight down!
Now while RRARFing I now weigh 14 kg more than I did in my early twenties, which was my natural weight. About 10 of those I put on with RRARfing. I believe I did regain the muscle I lost prior but the rest is fat.
If this is not a great example of it NOT being a matter of calories in, calories out, I don't know what is..
CHRIS-
Our stories are quite similar. How do you feel the effect of training now?
Me, I feel absolutely devastated after doing normal chores (like shoveling snow) The day after, my muscles ache all over, I feel tired, I get a head ache and it takes a little less than a week to recover from that sort of thing. Sometimes I even wake up with sore muscles from doing nothing!
CHIEF-
Regarding the tasteless eating, that is more or less how I am eating. I only add salt and sometimes a little pepper.
Regards your guinea pig ;-P
Sheila – How long have you been RRARFing? I have now pretty much fixed my metabolism and have dropped the weight I put on through RRARF (about 8-10lbs) and now weigh about the same that I did in Paleo days yet have far more muscle. So my set point has been brought down but it really happened after I got more familiar with eating HED style and integrating a few other things into my diet/lifestyle. All in all though it took about 7-9 months for things to turnaround…..
Right now my story is similar to undertows with the weight back down (while eating to appetite of a mixed diet) yet I am still suffering from a slightly low basel temp and adrenals are still not what they used to be.
In regards to training I feel terrible after any long duration exercise. (tennis, snowboarding etc) in that I am tired, mind gets foggy and mood goes down hill and anxiety/depression crops up….
I find that short duration 15-30 mins of high intensity body weight workouts work well though making me feel happy, improving digestion and energy levels. For some reason if I do heavy lifting the negative effects occur.
So for now its just bodyweight and very light weights, plus a lot of stretching a joint mobility. I also try to walk a lot…..
Chief,
The reason the number of obese people is increasing so rapidly is because the food has changed. All of the new processed foods allow people to consume much larger amounts of calories than would be possible on a natural diet. Also, people's activity level is much lower. Too many calories and not enough exercise. It is obvious. Its just like fattening up cattle put em in a feed lot where they cant be active and feed them a calorie dense diet that is unnatural to them and they gain weight real fast!
Maddmuh,
Kitavans had agiculture, so they are not a good example for you to use. The fact the calories can be hard to come by sometimes in a primitive environment is generally accepted. Also, they have MUCH higher activity levels.
Sheilla,
Your example does not disprove the calorie equation. The problem is that your metabolism is not as fast as it used to be so you don't burn as many calories.
It seems to be the norm for many as they age to have their metabolic setpoint go up. Your sex hormones and thyroid decrease making it much more difficult to build muscle and lose fat. But, due to your past history of dieting and exercising the wrong way you may have damaged your metabolism as well and increased you metabolic setpoint. This is not uncommon among women in the fitness biz when they diet wrong and use certain medications.
chris- (and undertow)
what do your daily meals look like? any fruit? gluten and dairy free? do you eat meat every day?
just curious, my own RRARF diet looks like this:
oatmeal + coconut milk for breakfast
rice or potatoes and beans + cornbread
banana in the afternoon (sometimes)
more potatoes, veggies, and some eggs for dinnner.
oftentimes I'll also have a bowl of oatmeal for a nighttime snack before I go to sleep.
I just wonder if this is "too many" grains… I just have trouble getting down the calories if I do all my starches via potatoes!
Another thing Madmuhh, since you used the Kitavans to make your point. They only averaged around 2200 calories a day! This is NOT a high calorie diet.
Wheezy – My diet is much simpler and I don't really exclude foods or classify them as "bad" except for highly processed stuff like veggie oil, and white flour/sugar which I eat on occasion in restaurants and when with friends and it is unavoidable….
A days diet would be something like this –
Breakfast – Yoghurt with banana + a bowl of oatmeal. Sometimes 1-2 eggs.
Lunch – Potatoes with Beans and Milk/Cottage Cheese. Or a root veg soup with a sandwich on good bread (usually turkey and cheese).
Dinner – Meat and potatoes and veg. Or brown rice with chilli. basically whatever is going for dinner at the house. I always cook with butte or coconut oil and eat a big salad with lunch/dinner when I can….
Sometimes fruit and yoghurt before bed if hungry. And I usually snack on apples, oat/fruit bar or grapefruits between meals. Although too much fruit does make me feel weird….
I try to eat nutrient rich food, with lots of resistant starch and fiber. Have also started eating more lentils and beans and find they are very filling and keep my blood sugar very stable.
Never count calories just eat to appetite of wholesome food, so I never worry if I am eating enough and too little. To be honest though my calories probably aren't too high although I do eat a lot of food.
Chris, that does sounds similar to me, I only recently starting to feel like my body would even want to exercise, probably in the last two months. I still need to sleep between 8-10 per night to feel normal in the morning. Probably thyro-adrenal for sure, and is slowly getting back to nominal, but takes times, and tons of un-refined food.
I'll be attempting some MET training soon and will see where that gets me.
Wheezy, below best summarizes what is my normal daily menu. Usually a always have a large pot of some sort of starch cooked and ready. Example would be that I always cook 5lbs potatoes at a time so there are a few meals ready from that. Just got my Vitaclay rice cooker today, so looking forward to trying that too. Don't eat meat everyday, but I always have something home-cooked and frozen if I want meat.
My starches are: oatmeal, corn/grits, beans, taters, rices, quinoa
Fats: Coconut, butter, cream, cheeses
Protein: beef, salmon, poultry, cheeses
Fruit: apples, bananas, mango, grapes, berries, etc…
Veggies: Carrots, Parsnip, celery, onions, peppers, etc… Stick to local farmers markets in the summer
Probiotics: yogurt, kefir
Sea salt and various spices
Avoid: Seed Oils, refined gluten and white sucrose (as much as possible)
Breakfast: 1lb starch, with 4 eggs
Lunch: 1-2lbs starch, protein, fats
Dinner: 1-2lbs starch, protein, fats
Snacks: popcorn, fruit, decaf coffee, honey/molasses
Cheats: dark choco, hagen daaz, homemade pies, cookies…
Hope that helps
Jt,
I have seen first hand the bounty of non agricultural societies ( northwest coast) with salmon being available you can almost not work 10 months out of the year to find food. ( if you even consider that heavy work) among my people (agricultural) we used to trade corn for virtually worthless stuff so I doubt any starvation was occurring much like the kitavans had excess. btw 2200 a day does not seem like low calorie to me for such small guys. I have seen pretty harsh climates where agriculture is impossible yet they are able to stock pile insane amounts of food.
considering they based the thrifty gene theory on natives from here and I have first hand experience I say bullshit. It may be generally accepted but it is false. ( as is the notion that alot more calories were used to obtain food )
I would agree with you that perhaps there is something problematic with the modern foods but calorie density is definitely not the issue. Corn flour is as calorie dense as white flour and we ate the shit out of it, even cakes.
I challenge you to find an account by Jauques Cartier of obesity among iroquois before colonization.
Undertow I like your diet, looks pretty good. As you can see from my wimpy cheat day, I don't eat all that much volume. :)
Chief: NA Indians are not fat but are they some islanders who were heavy before processed foods showed up? I am thinking Samoans? Or maybe not.. thought I saw that somewhere?
xo
deb
Undertow, you might want to look into the effects of decaf coffee on your adrenal system – it still contains some caffeine.
Ian2.
Ian2
I only drink one cup per week, was never a big coffee drinker. But one cup in the morn on the weekend is enjoyable.
Chief,
I am talking about hunter gatherers- those who hunt and forage for food. NOT agriculturalists. It is not the same thing. But, gardening/farming can be a very labor intensive process, especially without modern equipment.
There is no doubt that activity levels are higher among hunter gatherers. They definitely did have a higher energy output when they were out hunting and gathering! This is not a wild theory, it has been verified plenty of times by modern anthropologists who have studied the few remaining groups. Of course they had leisure time too, but daily life without modern technology does have a much higher energy expenditure.
Even social activities would increase activity levels. You couldn't just get in a car and drive to your friends house, or sit around watching TV all day.
Deb,
I too have seen traditional groups that looked pretty heavy. The fattest i saw was of a group living in the amazon. I was shocked to see that they could get so fat without modern foods. Their diet was primarily manioc, so maybe their is something in it that inhibits the metabolism.
Is it just me that thinks that Matt Stone, Chief and JT should have one of those "roundtable" discussions on health/weight?
grass fed momma! Took me awhile to get used to the mammoth meals, but ya with whole foods its hard to rack up the calories and surprisingly its really hard to make myself feel over-stuffed. So far my hollow leg isn't full yet though!
I agree undertow, even though I don't count calories sometimes it's hard to get enough in so I have to eat a LOT. I do get the over-full feeling occasionally, but it's more of a fiber thing and it passes quickly.
Deb- I read you eat 2 eggs for brekkie? I'd be starving!!!
I second rosenfeltc on the round table thing!!
The Knights of the food and exercise and sleep Roundtable!!!!!
Hey JT and Chief: Perhaps, just a wild hair theory, the native peoples just had less stress and actually SLEPT with the proper cycles and paid more attention to things that modern culture ignores like talking to friends, sharing resources and generally being less stressed out then even modern kids are now a days in the big cities et al. Just my idea of why they may have done better metabolicly.
Wheezy: Breakfast can be two eggs, some sausage meat and spinach and that usually keeps me for at least three hours or so. I just don't eat a lot and maybe it's just a habit I don't know. When I do eat a big yam for example, I feel totally stuffed to the gills. Not a comfy feeling for me.. I am a bit long in the tooth and more of a grazer type. Could just be that my body likes smaller meals more often or that is the habit I am in. Even the tastiest food cannot tempt me to get 'full to barfing' as a friend used to say.
deb
rosenfeltc,
I don't think I am qualified to join the round table, but I would like to see Chief and Matt go at it. Maybe they would agree and maybe they wouldn't because I really don't know what Chief's system is yet and I am not really sure exactly what Matt believes anymore.
Good Point JT. I think we are all in flux, evolving to the right mix for each of us as individuals, Matt and Chief included.
The Hag
xo
Deb,
That is a good point. The lifestyle and environment was completely different from how we are living today. This is also why I don't think we can say that just because a certain diet was good for them then it must be for us. Maybe something else is better for modern man.
Jt
I gave you examples of hunter gathers, the coastal people of the northwestern part of north america. Very low energy output with a incredible amount of salmon. There were places in my father's generation where many old timers have told me, there were lakes with so much fish you could scoop em with a bucket just because you are a hunter does not men you starve are wolves predisposed to diabetes as well? I agree Agriculture makes a nation "kick ass" but the thrifty gene was based on natives and our largest populations were not hunter gather because of the simple fact that agriculture kick ass and if we had alot of surplus food why are we fat now??.
Even the James Neel the guy who came up the the theory of Thrifty genes, after 30 years of research felt it no longer held water.
I can bring you with me in the woods even in modern times where animals are way more scarce due to industrialization and you could lay on your ass all day and contribute nothing after we set up camp and i could bring enough deer to last us a year with a weeks worth of work. Shit, even if you brought a family and all of last year's playboy center-folds with no skills to contribute I still would easily manage to provide. All though many anthropologist support the the starvation idea, I think it is heavily flawed.
I could easily starve in New york without income but put me anywhere in north america but the desert and it'll be like the movie idiocracy "Fuck you I'm Eating!"
Chief,
I don't know if the thrifty gene theory is correct or not, but it would definitely be a survival advantage for those in a food shortage situation that could easily come up.
Not many are going to get fat eating an all fish diet. I will agree with you there.
Again, I think we can be certain that hunter gatherer societies had a higher energy expenditure than modern north american couch potatoes.
Deb, you nailed it right on the money,
the one thing that is the same on every rez from here to mexico is the quality of life. not the calorie density. i have even noticed an erie similarity with new zealand and hawaiian natives as well. it's not rocket science why the majority of obesity and diabetes victims are in the highest industrialized places…. the disease of civilization is civilization itself. stress is a bastard
you live in the ghetto = better chance of getting fat
you live on the rez ( alot of em worse than ghettos) better chance of getting fat barrio= same thing shanty town=same thing … if people stop trying to base it on race and see that it is not genetic and the higher risk is based on racism of a system put in place to make lower living that is at fault we can fix it faster for people of all walks of life as the things we can learn will relate to all.
wild animals you never see them fat , wild animals in cage stressed out =
http://img.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2008/05_02/fatmonkeyAFP_468x417.jpg
Jt,
"Not many are going to get fat eating an all fish diet. I will agree with you there."
ok so if I eat all fish the calories don't matter ? ? whoa soundin a little like your leavin' the darkside of the force behind there, sith lord
certain grok style, all meat diet societies might have existed and we might have had a few here n there starving eating bugs, just like there are degenerates living in trailers with no teeth and cant read but if aliens came down you would not use them as a prime example of all the genetic make up of earth. You may be right but I will tell you this, i go in the bush to cut back on my energy expenditures and catch up on reading because its a real slacker lifestyle in comparison to what i did during my most recent weight gain. If you don't believe me take a drive up 87 in new york. I see about 100 deer on average in 5 hours. I can imagine it being even more slacker in some tropical utopia with pineapples and a year round growing season. ( not tom hanks castaway style lol)
"you live in the ghetto = better chance of getting fat
you live on the rez ( alot of em worse than ghettos) better chance of getting fat barrio= same thing shanty town=same thing … if people stop trying to base it on race and see that it is not genetic and the higher risk is based on racism of a system put in place to make lower living that is at fault we can fix it faster for people of all walks of life as the things we can learn will relate to all."
Wow, Chief– I never thought of it like that! I work at a free health clinic and just about every other person is obese, diabetic, has high cholesterol/high blood pressure. These conditions make sense because living paycheck to paycheck or living on your friend's uncle's couch sure as hell must be stressful!
Chief,
I still believe the fact that calories matter. Its just that not that many people are going to be able to overeat on a mono diet of fish.
You should read more reports of hunter gatherer groups and their daily activity levels. Most reports are much higher than you are thinking.
Actually a lot of game in North America is at a higher level than it was before the european invasion. The reason is because of the genocide of the native americans. There was a huge north american population that hunted these animals before the europeans arrived. After the depopulation of the indigenous people the game levels increased.
Wheezy,
not to mention it is further exacerbated by lack of proper nutrition which is also a poor people/ colonized mind thing. but yea a shitty outlook on the future make your body see starvation around the corner. Ghettos of all shapes and sizes are real good for that.
even upper class folks living check to check because they cant handle the modern world well end up the same way… just a ghetto of the mind.
Chief & Wheezy,
The reason that people in the ghetto have a higher rate of obesity isn't just because of stress. They don't have access to higher quality foods. Most spend their money on high density processed food that is much cheaper than real food. This junkfood is much easier to overeat and is addictive.
Jt,
I mentioned ghetto nutrition above as well, only it is not the calorie density …sorry, I can eat much beans ( in calories ) as potato chips and most likely more beans than oreos. It's how the nutrition makes the body function better that is at play in better quality foods not the density. I'll take the people out the ghetto and give them more calories and they will lose weight ever time.
the hunter gatherer activity levels must not be any groups I have been around, the hardest work I've seen is carrying the food back. besides canoeing is fun :)
if you believe game was higher now then in the past you are not familiar with a buffalo jump. hunting this way would be impossible without an extreme number of buffalo. buffalo were killed off by railroad workers, western expansionist and poachers selling the hides for what was alot of money back then leaving the corpses to rot.
trust me a buffalo jump is more slacker than welfare
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buffalo_jump
this kind of thing would be impossible with low numbers of wild game. We have similar slacker techniques that would not have existed without high numbers of everything from geese to fish to deer. I'll trust old timers and their fish o' plenty stories over any book by an "expert" anyday.
Chief,
Lets get real man. I really doubt that many people could eat more calories of beans than potato chips and oreos. Calorie density does play a huge role. You would probably rupture internally from the high fiber if you tried to eat a high calorie diet of beans.
To get 2350 calories of pinto beans you would have to eat 10 cups cooked. That is 150 grams of fiber!!! It takes less than 1 bag of oreo cookies to get the same amount of calories.
You are right about the buffalo, they are an exception. The population was intentionally destroyed by the white man so that they could starve the native groups. Even in the cases where food is plentiful you still have to do a lot more work to butcher, travel, carry food, carry water, build fires.
I appreciate your experiences with native american culture, but you are also right that you have not been around traditional hunter gatherer groups living the traditional lifestyle. I don't think they exist in north america anymore because they have been wiped out unfortunately. There are hardly any in existence in the world. Unfortunately the only place to get this information nowadays is from the "experts" or travel to remote locations in other parts of the world.
Jt,
pure pinto beans suck..people that like em can eat as many as chips for sure. I don't think normal people can eat even half of a bag of oreos, I've tried on cheat days and Im good at eating lol… after about ten i cant even look at a chocolate bar. they just start to taste gross always have like that. I may be able to in a competition or something or with nothing else around pacing myself but not being normal. certainly people are not eating one of the ingredients like flour plain as you compared pinto beans. its not the grams of fiber in the beans that would keep me from eating them i would reach calorie max out faster. The dishes i grew up eating have alot more fat than you probably imagine and therefore are quite dense in calories. either way i can easily eat 4 or 5 large soup bowls of beans but i could not eat even one soup bowl of oreos. Sure junk food is calorically dense but look at kids after trick-or-treating they wanna puke after a candy binge.
eating capacity does not come down to food volume the body will just adapt to whatever is need to reach the calories that it needs from whatever source it searches out.
I said I have no experience among the ones you mentioned that does not mean the ones I know were not living traditional. I have hunted with groups of people that prior to the 1970's never even seen a non native in their area and I've met plenty who have not changed much since and still live 100 percent off the land. Im also the type to jump in the boonies with a blanket and a knife. so given those 2 thoughts I will take my eyes as fact over the "experts" any day.
5 hours north of toronto or montreal or edmonton starts to be quite a remote region. I've been to tibuktoo and back and there is still alot of untouched wilderness and people who have no concept of the internet in north america.
I don't get why people still think energy expenditure is important for the development of obesity, there are no studies that I'm aware of that show activity levels predict future obesity development, but several that show they don't. In just about every industrialized country, sedentary desk workers are leaner than blue collar workers even though the latter expend far more calories with their everyday work.
Personally, in my calorie-restriction days, I thought it just got easier to maintain a low body fat the less exercise I got. In my early years I was exercising like mad, running 50 miles per week and taking 2+ hour bike rides, and struggled with constant hunger just to get down to 150 lbs. In contrast, the most effortlessly lean I ever got (at about 130) was when I did absolutely no exercise at all beyond a single 60 minute weight-lifting session per week.
Since constant high levels of activity, at least when forced by something other than the desire to move, is just a big source of bad stress, it probably has a negative impact on weight maintenance if anything.
I also doubt calorie density is any intrinsic factor in obesity. Just going by personal experience again, I found it easier to maintain weight when I moved from a diet very high in vegetables to one with less vegetables and more added fat. Low carb is extremely calorie dense, yet allows most people who've failed on far less dense diets like weight-watchers to lose weight effortlessly.
@ undertow
I'm the same exactly. Need to sleep before 10pm, that means I should be in bed by 9:30pm and not worry about anything to function normally throughout the day. And even then my sleep SUCKS. How I envy my friends who party until 7am, then sleep soundly for 10 hours and feel fit after that…
@Chief and JT
I know it's not just the stress that contributes to impoverished people's obesity. I was just saying that I never thought about the stress component. It's just another reason why it will be so difficult to truly address the problem– because it is not JUST a matter of proper nutrition.
I'll never forget when my boss told me about this guy who was 300 lbs, diabetic, etc. etc., who went to a free "healthy living" class and said that he gets a large sweet tea from Bojangles every morning and a Cookout milkshake every night… and he refuses to change his ways.
If I were living off of government money, no place to stay, I'd probably try to enjoy those little things, too. (Well, if I didn't know how deadly those can be!)
"Wheezy, below best summarizes what is my normal daily menu. Usually a always have a large pot of some sort of starch cooked and ready. Example would be that I always cook 5lbs potatoes at a time so there are a few meals ready from that. Just got my Vitaclay rice cooker today, so looking forward to trying that too. Don't eat meat everyday, but I always have something home-cooked and frozen if I want meat."
Welcome to the cult of vitaclay. I love mine. I set mine last night to make sushi rice this morning. Woke up and turn on the rice cooker the way I used to turn on the coffee pot. I'm having fresh sushi rice with sweet omelet and salmon for lunch today. Yum.
Also, the little cookbook that comes with isn't bad. I make the thai chicken curry out of there once a month–very economical and easy way to make a boatload of lunches in one shot. I make the seaweed rice all the time. My kid even eats it which is bizarre since it's seaweed, hello. If you are healing adrenals, nothing like the seaweed to help with that.
Also, I make amazing pot roasts in the thing too. The best flavor ever, I think because of the clay.
You can do taters in it too, but they don't brown like they do in the oven.
I like your style, Mr. Stone. Another important blog entry for folks out there still struggling with connecting to their bodies' true needs! I'm still astounded by how much I can relate to in your story.
JT, please don't confuse constructive criticism with "personal attacks." I fact, I never had "attacked" you. Please forgive me if you thought that I "'attacked' you for being 'religious.'"
Thanks, JT!!!
Thanks, DML!!!
Thanks, Chief!!!
…yes, all of you three people seem to confuse constructive criticism with "personal attacks"…I didn't know that healthy people can be vengeful too…
Organism,
I am not sure what you are talking about? You never offended, nobody on this blog has ever offended me. I am not the type of person that is easily offended and I don't think i have any vengeful feelings toward anyone.
I think you make the coolest comments on this blog, but you will need to give me alittle more info so that I can figure this one out.
Thanks. In a comment on an older post, you have said that others "attack" you for speaking out against overfeeding. I was angry at you for saying that they had "attacked" you when they are merely constructively criticizing you.
By the way, in another comment, you have said that "Organism has given 'us' the greatest comment of all time." You have also said that you were serious in your compliment. But I'm still not sure if your compliment was genuine or not. You probably meant that I had given 180degreehealth the longest comment of all time.
Sure, my comment was politically incorrect, but I did learn new stuff in the replies to my comment.
However, I did "attack" Sydney for being disingenuous because she used another women other than herself for her avatar. That was in an older comment, which is now deleted.
Organism,
I was being sincere when I said you gave us the best comment ever. I appreciate your honesty and different way of looking at things. I am being genuine when I say this.
Actually, if you look at a lot of the older comments you will see that there were personal attacks against me calling me a troll. I'm not mad about it, I even thought it was funny when Jenny posted the viideo of a troll directed towards me.
Also, I am not sure how I have been vengeful either.
JT, jenny I have to say that was funny too the troll video…
Whezy, yep yep that is why many will struggle as well.
if it was simply nutrition it would have been solved long ago.
JT-
Then how do you explain the fact that my mother who started RRARFing didn't gain a thing -but actually decreased her bodyfat levels?
1- she ate more than me. 2- she ate junk too. 3- she is in menopause. 4- she had the same or slightly less activity level than me.
I am 28. She is 58.
Sheila,
Because she has a different metabolism than you do. She probably didn't damage herself like you say you did. Everyone is different and has different needs, and should do different things. With the information you have given it seems like the RRARFing is good for your mom but not good for you.
Also, do you both weigh and measure your food, this is the only way to be sure if she actually is consuming much more than you. Most people have no idea how much they are actually consuming.
Sheila, I could be your MOM! She is lucky to have you to guide her along. For the Record: Menopause is a beyotch so I am glad to hear she did great with RRARF ing.
Organism as a Whole I echo JT's confusion. Give us a set up before you blurt out an apology out of left field.
organism as a whole ,
I third that motion … i reread it a few times and scrolled up trying to figure out what the hell i missed and your welcome for whatever it was you were thanking me for
Collden,
hit me with an email I have a few off topic things to ask ya…
Matt, this is OT, but I would like your (or anybody's) input on the blood type diet or the genotype diet by d'Adamo.
For the first time in 15 years I caught a UTI, I'm not even sure how, and then I couldn't kick it by myself. It moved into my kidneys, so I gave in and took antibiotics for the first time in years (normally garlic is my best friend). What I blame is the stress of having my in-laws stay with us a month (yes, a month) and the concurrent eating of SAD food I haven't eaten in two years… mostly from a lot of eating out. Tried to just relax and not stress about the food, but getting super ill and now recovering from the effects of antibiotics has made me say that it's time to go back to being as careful as I can be.
Anyhow, my point… went to the naturopath for the kidney infection, and then decided to go back to tackle the fact that after 8 months of RRARF, I still am so tired… thought maybe I might need a little professional help with the adrenals. Which I've avoided till now, since I don't agree with most doctors, even naturopaths. And I haven't got hundreds of dollars to keep testing out different drs!
So, she wants to do the genotype diet. Well, just a few minutes of research is enough to convince me that it's a load of hooey, and results are probably just from people cutting the crap out of their diets (like most diets initially work due to cutting out the sugar/white flour, etc). I feel like I just wasted a couple hundred bucks with another quack. What say you?
Plus the genotype diet goes against the mantra of "eat the food!". When I say I want to be careful about what I eat, I mean no SAD quality food, but I don't really want to restrict anything other than frankenfood/sugar/refined food, etc.
Supposedly this genotype diet tells you down to the last food whether it is a "superfood" or "toxic" for you. I mean, really? Broccoli is toxic to me but a superfood to my kid? Turkey is great but chicken is bad? How much more stress can we have over our diet? And what is this really based on, anyway?
JT-
What else would be better for me? Starving and exercising (not listening to my body), which I did before and made me sick?
On RRARF I am only eating to appetite and not doing any exercise (listening to my body), which is what my mother has done her whole life.
Trust me, when it comes to calories, I know. I know what everything contains without looking at the labels (brainwashed from years of competing)!
And yes, I know exactly what she and me ate because she was sick from work due to a small operation in her foot. I was serving all the meals and was with her 24/7. She even said a few times: I can't belive I am eating more than you and not gaining a thing?!
DEBBIE-
Yeah my mom is cool as, she does what I tell her (kidding of course)
;-P
Lorelei,
Sometimes the advice of just eating the food is not good advice. Some people do better on different types of foods. I got really sick when I tried to do the Raw milk diet, but other people report miraculous benefits. I always know it is bad advice when someone promotes a diet that is good for all the people all the time.
I never really believed the blood type diet could be true, but when I read the book it was so bizarre that so much of what it says were true for me and the people in my family. Nobody will be able to tell you if it is true or not, the only way you will know is if you try it. Just check out his website for free and test it if you really want to know. Many people have had a lot of success with it, so maybe it is real.
There are many typing systems out there. My particular preference is the Ayurvedic system.
Sheila,
The first thing you should do is let go of your extremist thinking. First you say you starved yourself until you did metabolic damage, and now you are eating so much that you are gaining fat rapidly. There are more options than stuffing yourself until you are fat or starving yourself. Maybe you should try to find a way that works for you as an individual. Like I said before, different things work for different people.
JT-
Maybe I didn't explain myself correctly. I apologize. What I meant was, before I wasn't eating to appetite (which would be another word for starving)
Now I am eating to appetite (which would be another word for not-starving)
Before I was exercising when I didn't feel like it, when my body was tired (which would be another word for not listening to my body)
Now I am not exercising because I don't feel like it yet, because I feel tired (which would be another word for listening to my body)
An extremist is exactly what I am NOT. An extremist would try to control the body, not giving it what it wants and needs.
Sheila,
No, being an extremist just means you go to one extreme or the other. You can be an extremist with no self control that just does whatever you feel like doing, or you can be an extremist that is really strict with yourself and tries to control every little thing.
Just because you didn't eat to appetite does NOT mean you were starving! It is possible for a person to have an appetite that causes one to eat more than you need. If this wasn't possible, then fat people would be very rare.
JT, I don't think you understand what Sheila is saying.
Before, she did NOT eat to appetite. Meaning, she did not eat ENOUGH to nourish her body– because eating to appetite would be eating the amount her body needed to stay nourished.
Now that she has damaged her body from STARVATION/dieting (i.e. not eating enough for an extended period of time), eating TO APPETITE (i.e. eating enough to nourish her body) is causing her to gain weight. It is more than she "needs" for her weight, but not more than she "needs" to be nourished.
Sheila, is that right?
Hey great post Matt, like usual. I'm kind of new, I started taking your advice about two months ago and I really need to thank you for saving me. I had so many problems I don't even know where to start. I was on the verge of dropping out of school and just calling it quits but my most severe problems like anorexic tendencies, anxiety, heart palpitations and the inability to digest anything cleared up. Thank you so much for doing this.
I read something interesting at school today pertaining to this post which prompted me to leave a comment… I happened to pick up a book on silent film artist and actors and I came across an article on Francis X. Bushman (1883-1966) who was know for his muscular physique. The editor of the article from the book says that he "is probably the most perfect physical specimen among the many notable athletes of the studios."
The best part is when Bushman is asked how he maintains this physique he replies "I want to call the reader's attention to the fact which every athlete knows that over execise is worse than no exercise; that suddent hard exercise is positively dangerous, and that irregular exercise is worthless. You have probably not escaped the lazy man's saw: "The athlete dies young with worn-out organs or an enlarged heart.""
I just thought this was very interesting and wanted to share :)
wheezy, scratch nourish and add in survive… it is how much she needs to survive a perceived starvation and not a lack of nourishment. The large appetite with the lack of up-regulated metabolism is because there is a "need" for fat and therefore the calories to create this fat will take precedent over any other nutrient.
A malfunctioning body that mimics normal starvation response is also possible.
the need is there or the appetite would not be there hence the impossibility to overfeed, it all starts within the body.
that's supposed to be *sudden hard exercise*
MJ tres cool .
JT-
Are you eating like that? Stopping before your satisfied?
That too me, sounds a lot like an eating disorder..
Not eating to satisfaction over a prolonged period of time, will eventually cause one to obsess about food.
Is that your solution for obesity?
-And for the record, RRARF was the only thing that worked on bringing my period back.
WEEZY-
Yes, we are on the same page! Not sure JT gets it still. I guess if you have never been in the situation, you can't understand..
CHIEF-
I agree with you. That is another way of putting it. I am well aware that I am in starvation response still, which I believe stems from an malfunctioning body. The question is, how do I get out of it?
JT- Do you have any ideas on where to start when looking into testing and treating adrenal/cortisol insufficiency…. Doctors won't acknowledge it, so maybe a naturopath?…. How did you go about treating things?
Also what kind of symptoms where you experiencing at the peak of your cortisol insufficiency and how long did it take for the Paleo style eating to trigger things?
Sheila,
No im not eating like that At the moment because my goals are different. I'm trying to get bigger and put on mass, so I am eating as much as I can. I was in a situation much worse than what you describe from years of years of low carb dieting, so I dont know what you mean with that comment.
Some people are not satisfied unless they eat a whole tub of ice-cream every night. Do they have an eating disorder if they don't eat until they are satisfied?
Chris,
Yeah a REAL naturopath might be able to help, or a doctor that specializes in anti-aging type of medicine seems to be open to it.
I'm not sure exactly how long it took for my system to finally shut down. My symptoms with the insufficiency was weakness and fatigue combined with a bunch of other stuff.
You might want to check out schwarzbiens book. It was almost exactly how I experienced it.
JT-
I also come from years and years of low carbing. How can you say you were in a worse situation than me, when you don't know me? You don't know my story and I don't know yours.
You say your not eating like that at the moment because your trying to put on size. But do you really think you could continue not eating to satisfaction (being constantly hungy) for the rest of your life, like an obese would have to do if they were to follow your principles?
That last comment was just plain silly. Sorry. I am not talking about eating loads of junk and then expecting to lower your weight setpoint. A little logic would flatter your way of thinking.
I have only been eating to appetite of whole nurishing foods and that still made me gain weight.
My mom on the other handate both clean and junk but still didn't gain a thing.
It is not about the calories but what your body decides to do with them
I'm not sure appetite comes into to it quite so much. Appetite can be skewed pretty easily. When I was training for trail marathons while eating low carb, I wasn't hungry. It wasn't like I was ignoring my appetite most days. I was eating small "meals" every two-three hours and sometimes I'd have to force the food down. Once a week or so I would have huge out of control cravings for carbs, which were probably healthy, but of course, I tended to satisfy those with refined carbs. (That's the problem with unrefined carbs. They are rarely available in instant gratification form.) But my point is my appetite no longer could be trusted.
Sheila,
Read Jenny's post concerning appetite, she has made a very good point. You cannot trust your appetite, especially when you have a history of doing unantural things to it. When I was low carb, I had no appetite at all, but what I really needed was to eat a lot more calories. Some people have the oppositte problem, they have a huge appetite, but maybe what they really need is to eat less.
I don't know what you mean by whole nourishing foods, can you explain what you eat? But, my comment was not silly, there are plenty of people that think eating "healthy" ice cream is a nourishing food.
I am sorry if I offended you by saying my situation was worse, I really don't know. You said that I couldn't understand because I hadn't been in the situation. I was just trying to say that from what you described, mine seemed to be more severe.
You are right, it is not just about the calories, but about how your body reacts to it. This is why I said your mom is reacting differently, because she has a different metabolism.
Lorelei,
Hopefully you are still reading this thread. On homeopathy and adrenal fatigue…
I understand the desperation and I've ended up in a very similar position as you. I've been almost a year just trying to "eat the food" and still having these god-awful feeling days. You start to wonder what the hell you're supposed to do… like lock yourself in a cave and control all your food, or is that just part of the stress?
I requested consultation with Sean at Underground Wellness. Now I've got the invoice (not cheap), except that something interesting has happened in the past couple weeks. My sleep and how my body feels have had qualitative improvements. Like I'm actually noticing it on a short time frame. I'm not totally out of the woods, but it's suddenly getting clearer a lot faster. And this is despite continuing to pound in the sugar.
So now I'm kind of at a loss. Right at the point where I was ready to give in to an expert, suddenly the changes are becoming apparent. Do I still go forward with it? The last thing I want is more rules on what and how and what not to eat.
My advice for you, I guess, is the healing takes time. A lot of time. Maybe if you want to control your environment and your foods, it can happen quicker, but then we're also trying to restore a healthy attitude towards food and social settings. I would say, if you're trying to get the HED style foods and you've thrown out most of your restrictive concepts, you're probably healing.
I'm no chef, and most of the food I make for myself is kind of sad in a bachelor sort of way. But I'm not beyond finishing off a large bowl of popcorn or a whole sweet potato, or a big pile of brussel sprouts, even if I'm not that hungry.
I feel like I've been binging and overeating a lot. And meals have become sporadic too. Like not eating breakfast, or eating late. Then snacking too much before dinner, having no appetite left, and eating a big dinner anyway. Lord knows how I'm healing.
I've also been taking warm baths and getting to bed early. That may also be a big factor.
Hawaii girl: My instinct is that the genotype diet is flim flam. Why not a Astrology diet, where cancers eat one thing and capricorns eat another? This seems to be written with the same sort of generic quality as a horoscope. And agian, like you say, most success is going to come from cutting the crap.
Everydiet's review is fairly even- handed, they have one hilariously under-stated criticism though:
"Meal preparation may be difficult when members of a family are different genotypes." Ha, ya think? Honey don't eat that warrior food. You're a gatherer.
My guess is that most women will somehow fall into his gatherer category, the solution to which of course is to become a vegetarian. You can ask the vast majority of vegetarians who are overweight with piss poor health at my co-op how well that's workin out for them.
"http://www.everydiet.org/diet/genotype-diet
I suppose JT is right in that you will only find out if you try it, but when something is raising logical red flags like this, I think it's best to go with that instinct.
It can be really frustrating to find a health care provider. I've actually had better luck with my HMO system than with natropaths just because I can rid of people easily who don't work out.
More on the Genotype diet: A couple of reviews on Amazon are very telling. Lots of people are mad at the inconsistencies between his blood type diet and his genotype diet. One set of foods is labeled is toxic in one diet and a superfood in the next. For people who've been faithfully following his diet and having success (probably from cutting the crap)this suddenly reveals the little man behind the curtain in a rather bad way.
The other telling review is from someone who already eats sugar-free and gluten free and found absolutely zero change to her weight and health from the diet, which goes further to show that the main benefit from this from cutting the crap.
One more quick comment. Linda Bacon makes some mention in HAES about how some researchers feel like most people will lose control and be unable to control over-eating if unrestrained.
She contests that this is not true, and I agree with her. Although for all us restrained eaters, when we first allow ourselves to let go, we will eat a lot of junk, and we will gain fat. But this kind of short term evidence is no more convincing than the evidence that dieting promotes weight loss.
There are so many reasons for overeating. We could be replenishing deeply depleted nutrient stores. Or we may not be able to function with low adrenal activity, so we take in coffee and chocolate plus an excess of foods that help replenish them in the long term. The body seeks to heal but it also seeks balance in the short term.
There's also the psychological reasons. I was continuing to shovel chocolate into my mouth last night, and I was just wondering… without judging, without trying to control, why am I doing this? Then I was reading HAES, and Linda Bacon was talking about how the presentation of the food matters, how the context of your food matters, the people you eat with, where you eat, etc. And I realized I was upset and bitter, because I already put all this time into my food, but I still don't get to enjoy it the way she's talking about. I was like thanks but no thanks Linda.
I don't think anybody, once all the reasons are addressed, once unrestrained eating has been allowed to play itself out, will settle into long term unhealthy eating or even overeating.
I can tell it with myself. I don't want all that chocolate. My body doesn't want it. I know it doesn't. What I really want is delicious tasty food, the way Jon Gabriel describes. And I want to share it with people. You give people that, then food can become an enjoyable part of being healthy.
RRARF, HED, unrestrained eating, these are just a first step on restoring our relationship with food. They also allow us to heal the damage for all us restricted eaters. But I think ultimately it goes beyond this, until we're looking at all the aspects of our lives. I think Matt's been coming to this conclusion as well, which explains the less food-oriented nature of some of his recent posts.
I am done spamming the comment section now.
Not that there's anything wrong with D'amato changing his mind. The problem is that he doesn't address the dramatic changes and explain why he made them which makes him seem like a quack.
AaronF – I am wondering how your consultation with Sean Croxton went? he seems a bit confused himself on as what to follow or think, also he seems too inline with Paul Chek for my liking…. Still enjoy some of his podcasts though.
As for adrenal fatigue are there any homeopathic remedies you found that helped?
Hey AaronF, I'm glad you are feeling better and I'm glad the baths are helping! A Minnesota winter is not to be trifled with. Sometimes you have to hibernate a bit to get through it.
I know what you are saying about the context in which we eat. I was absolutely ravenous last night when I got home from work. This is usually my danger time. When I'm most like to just shovel junk food into my face until I feel ill. Part of it is that it had been six hours since my last meal, (which was really low fat and modest protein) and part of it is just post-rush hour stress of surviving yet another snowy, slow commute. I sat down with my kid and had some lefse which is something that always makes me feel better. It's Norski comfort food. In about five minutes the ravenous cravings passed and I was able to go on with my day and make my healthy dinner without a terrible junk food binge. A big part of that was what I was eating and who I was with. It does matter.
Chris, the best thing that I took for my adrenals was a product from Standard Process called Drenamin. It allowed me to stay awake for a whole day, no more funny heartbeats, no more nervousness.
I finally convinced my wife to try it and it her chest pains went away, but she was feeling light-headed. When she went to the chiro to pick up the supplements yesterday, they gave her a printout for Drenamin and it said that if you have low blood pressure, it can make your blood pressure even lower. SO for folks with low BP, they recommend Drenatrophin PMG instead which doesn't have this side effect. You learn something new every day.
Also Brewer's Yeast and Dessicated Liver will give you the full complex of the B vitamins in natural, whole food form.
Hope this helps.
Yum! Lefse! With butter and sugar and cinnamon! Yum! Thanks for getting it Jenny.
Chris,
I have only had the initial consultation. I now have the invoice for the full package. Except that in between, which included the entire Christmas Holiday (with plenty of junk on top of SAD), I have had noticeable improvement.
Sean seems concerned about adrenal sufficiency and gut health, which is a far cry better than most doctors. I don't doubt he's ordering up the right tests or has a protocol to really address these issues. It's a lot of the same stuff we talk about here. I told him about eating lots of potatoes and butter and sour cream and coconut oil, and he seemed impressed with that.
As far as what's best for healing, well now you're just getting into the gray area left behind by our medical wisdom. Sean obviously has passion for what he does, so I have no doubt he's figuring out what works in practice.
But who's to say whose ideas are really best? This is all new stuff in a way, and it's not acknowledged by the medical mainstream. So we just don't have controlled studies or long-term trials.
Jenny,
I have read the bloodtype and genotype books. He does explain how he has changed. He says that he has just further refined his system and the bloodtype is still a big part of it. His dad is the one that invented the blood type diet a long time ago.
Like i said before, I don't know how or why, but I have found a lot of the stuff to be true for me and my family. It is really bizarre and hard for me to accept, but that's what I found.
Aaron wrote: "Like I'm actually noticing it on a short time frame. I'm not totally out of the woods, but it's suddenly getting clearer a lot faster. And this is despite continuing to pound in the sugar."
Totally counter intuitive, I know, but maybe it was the sugar that put you over the hump some how. Or perhaps it was the big dose of fukitol you took with the sugar ;)
"Like i said before, I don't know how or why, but I have found a lot of the stuff to be true for me and my family. It is really bizarre and hard for me to accept, but that's what I found."
Ever read Real Astrology? That is exactly the feeling I have when I read my horiscope. A good writer can make generic statements that seem uncannily prescient. Sorry, I still can't help but remain skeptical. I'm glad he explained how he refined his system, though. Some people are unhappy with changing the system that is worked for them, which says to me that they should just ignore the new refined book and stick to what works for them.
"Yum! Lefse! With butter and sugar and cinnamon! Yum! Thanks for getting it Jenny."
I ate mine with marscapone cheese, and no sugar which was really good. The boy likes his with goat cheese. It's kinda like a Norweigan Quesadilla. Uff da!
"Totally counter intuitive, I know, but maybe it was the sugar that put you over the hump some how. Or perhaps it was the big dose of fukitol you took with the sugar."
It's tough to say. The body seems to know what it wants. There are so many things you need to let play out if you've become a restricted eater.
I've become really skeptical as well. After all the "evidence" against saturated fat, then all the "evidence" against carbs, I'm just not buying into it so easily about sugar. I can think of some counter-arguments, and I'd rather just trust my body.
A lot of comments come in when you're several time zones behind!
JT – reading the genotypes to me, seems like Jenny said, kinda astrological. I read one and think it sounds good, then read another and think it sounds good. It may be that certain types are susceptible to certain illnesses. I can see where he's going with the blood type diet, but the genotype one seems so random, esp if you look at the food lists. How can turkey be a superfood and chicken toxic to the same person? And what is he basing his food lists on? I can't find what he uses as evidence for his choices. I can see there might be individual foods that are particularly good or bad, but I'd rather listen to my body than some seemingly random food list. I still suspect that like any diet, the main benefit is from cutting the crap. Most food lists include cutting wheat and dairy, which means all the processed crap in the stores. However, the library does have his book, so I'm going to go thru it for free, without paying hundreds of dollars to see if it's quackery.
What's left then is respecting a doctor who may believe in such quackery. I don't have insurance, since I wouldn't bother going to any doctor here on the island, so I'll pay for a naturopath if I have to (like if I'm dying of a kidney infection). And I won't see a naturopath whose main mode of treatment is flower essences or homeopathy (NO, no more discussion on homeopathy!), which rules out a lot of naturopaths. She did order a number of hormone, cortisol, etc tests, which I have been considering doing for awhile, so I'm interested in that info.
Aaron, I've been eating well for two years now… ok, so one of those years was high fruit low starch, but still. I never eat junk food or processed food – except that week before I got really sick. To make my hubby happy I'll have one cheat meal a week with Costco pizza or something like that, but other than that, no snacks, no candy, no beverages, nothing. If I can't theoretically grow/raise it and make it myself, I don't eat it. And it doesn't bother me, I don't feel like I'm missing out. I've tried all kinds of supplements too – dessicated this, Vit B that.
After two years, I really think it's time for outside help… but then again, if you follow that it takes a month to fix every year you were messed up, I've got another year to go. And I know sleep is a big part of, which I still haven't fixed. So I don't know. I think I'll just have to see how those hormone tests turn out. At least I can get that info and proceed on my own.
Aaron, I'm glad you're doing better tho.
Comment Of The Day (for me)
From Jenny to the N(ipper)
,,,'Or perhaps it was the big dose of fukitol you took with the sugar ;)'
Yes!!
Fukitol is magic and we all should use it liberally.
If you have time inbetween reading the comments and doing air squats and wall pushups ala Tim Ferriss.
Jenny& Lorelei,
I'm not saying it is true, but it is not vague like astrology either. The predictions it makes are very specific. For example I'm blood type A, so I supposedly don't have the digestive capacity for bananas or potatoes. And it's true, my mom told me that bananas would make me sick when I was a baby, and potatoes sit in my stomach like a rock. These are very specific predictions.
What's funny is that whe I finally started started to try to incorporate some carbs when I was doing low carb paleo, the only starch I would eat is potatoes and yams and they made me sick, so i used that as proof that carbs are bad for me. But, if I would have followed his diet I would have known that these carbs weren't right for me, and neither was a low carb diet.
I agree that he seems to be going to far with the genotype diet, and the blood type diet seems more reasonable. Maybe he thinks he needs to do better than his dad who invented the blood type diet.
JT, well, that was why I mentioned Real Astrology, by Rob Brezny. He makes a lot of specific predictions. Predictions so well-written and so specific you think, man he must be talking to me, personally. But the thing is he doesn't really believe in Astrology, nor do I think he even consults charts or anything. But that is thing about art. It has a way of communicating with people that makes it feel like it's specifically written for you. Great poets, song-writers, etc. always seem to know exactly what you are feeling and often it is by being very specific about what they were feeling.
It's great that you figured out that potatoes and bananas were things that don't work for you. Sometimes I read Real Astrology or Free Will Astronlogy and it makes me think about something in my life that I've been denying or whatever and gives me clarity. Clarity can come from lots of places.
Lorelei, I see you in a tough spot. I was uninsured for five years in my twenties and it was scary enough. I can't imagine doing it with a family etc. I think the sleep thing must be the big problem. I'm in a similar boat in that if I go two or three nights without decent sleep my immune system crashes and leaves me very vulnerable to infections. I narrowly avoided a sinus infection over Christmas caused by two or three late nights.
Bernar McFadden had some kooky ideas about sleep. He believed that most people sleep with too many blankets and that you should sleep in certain positions. He was also a firm believer in air baths (i.e. exposing your body to the air and allowing yourself to get cold) and body temperature baths for relaxation. Might be kooky but at least it isn't homeopathy or genotyping!
I should add about McFadden and the blankets, I think he's got something there but it's common sense. We just switched over to our heavier winter quilt and I've been noticing that I fall asleep more quickly but that I'm more likely to wake in the night because I'm too hot. It's probably better to take a few minutes longer to warm up and then sleep more soundly. Of course, Hawaii girl, none of this is really relevant to you. You probably sleep with the windows open all year long, getting more fresh air and sunshine than my pale, vitamin-d deprived ass could ever dream of.
JT-
Read Jenny's post concerning appetite -she also makes it very clear that undereating made her crave carbs uncontrolably, which proves her body was trying to compensate for the lack of food.
Eating to satisfied is the most natural thing in the world.
You can easily eat to appetite or even stuff yourself stupid but try to consiously eat less than that every day and see how far you can go..
Yes, I am aware of the Ray Peat gang and icecream but eating a tub is exaggerating a bit.
This is what I eat: Oats, lentils, brown rice, potatoes, beans, veggies (carrots, peas, spinach, corn etc.) milk, yoghurt, cream, butter, coconut oil, beef, lamb, fish, eggs. Occasionaly home made sourdough bread. All organic.
My mom is old (just kidding Debbie) and I am still young. My metabolism has always been great! As good, if not better than my moms. Obviously I did something to damage it. Should I just accept that as a sign of aging (even though my mom and every one else in my family apparently aren't as "old" as me) and just ajust? Why not try to fix it by healing yourself?
LORELEI-
I am sorry your not getting any better. What kind of problems do you have?
Please keep us updated about how things go on the tests.
Yeah, Shiela, I more or less meant to back up what you were saying. Appetite can lie and yet, ultimately my body knew what I needed. I had to practically force those protein heavy meals down, (of course I ate every molecule of the unrefined carbs I was allowed with the tuna fish) but those cravings would come on like gang-busters. My body was saying, enough with the protein already, give me some carbs!
JENNY-
Exactly! The reason why you kinda lost your appetite on week days was because your body had had it (like you said) with the non carb/high protein! It wanted carbs!
Your body is smart. It knows what it wants and how to get it ;-)
Sheila,
I believe you that you have a damaged metabolism. I did too, for the same reason, long term low carb dieting. I am just saying that you might end up with other problems from going to the other dietary extreme.
Matt has said many times that his RRARFing strategy is a short term strategy that is only supposed to last for a month. It is meant to give your body a break to rest and restore, and then it is time to get back to eating and exercising in a healthy way.
Jenny,
Again, I am not saying it is true, but my opinion on it really doesn't matter because I haven't evaluated it and tested it out in a clinical setting. Neither you nor I am qualified to judge it unless we have. Many have applied it in clinical settings and found good results, so who am I to say they are wrong when I haven't spent the time to really evaluate their results.
The history of science is full of examples where the "quacks" ended up being right. Even those quacks that believed in invisible germs causing sickness ended up being right!
JT_
About RRARFing, I actually answered that in Matt's newest blog post.
Like I said, I am not "RRARFing" like I did in the beginning, meaning I am not consciously resting and I am not eating the same amount of food that I did in the beginning. BUT it is NOT that I am now stopping before fullness, I am simply not as hungry as I was in the beginning (which is one of the main healing effects of RRARF)! RRARFing or not RRARFing, I have ALWAYS eaten to appetite (anything else is impossible) it's just that I had an bigger appetite in the beginning. Regarding the resting part, I am still not working out, not because I am "RRARFing" but because my body is not ready yet. If I started exercising now, it would be like violating my body, forcing it to do something it is not well enough to do. I am done with that! I've done that for too many years and see where it left me?
funny in a contrarian dickish sort of way.
Care to elucidate for the medical and nutritional community how insulin resistance works?Or is this bombshell for 180ers only?
this community seems like a bunch of former dietary extremists who want someone else to tell them what to eat and then when it doesn't work they come here and eat a starch diet or whatever is in vogue as long as its contrary.
so vibrams = hideously embarrassing but a baby blue Indian chief print T shirt 2 sizes too small=self confidence?
your a funny dude,I like that
I feel some people may get confused or irritated by certain claims of what constitutes "disorder" (which will probably be addressed in your aforementioned upcoming post). For example, when you mention "paleo mindset" and what not, I think a lot of people who take all different forms of information on health out there more mildly may find this to actually be a pretty reasonable idea. Myself, I like the idea of just trying to eat "whole foods" most of the time, or in other words, foods which weren't augmented with chemicals and heavy processing, i.e. veggies, fruits, meats, beans, potatoes, etc. When I think of this I sort of think of it in the sense of what many people might call a "paleo mindset" but I am also not militant about it. When eating most days of the week I try to stick to these whole foods (or "real" foods) and then when it comes time to socialize or rush due to X I eat whatever is convenient and/or social.
So what I am saying is that the mindset of eating those foods which have not been unnaturally created doesn't seem to be all that unreasonable or disordered to me. Of course it can be taken too far, but I tend to think of it as the sweet spot between obsessing and not caring. Eat real food, DO NOT count/ration/weigh/etc., and don't worry when you can't eat those good foods 20% of the time. Everything else should fall into place after that.
Sorry I fell behind in the comments. It was all the air squats and wall pushups I've been doing. I hardly have time for the comments anymore!
Deb rules!!!
Hey Appetite-sturbators, I am going to do a post at the 180 Metabolism blog early next week on this topic.
Hawaii Girl-
It's good to work with a naturopathic oriented person but don't take dietary advice from them. I sent someone to a professional recently and they said their carbohydrate cravings could be eliminated if they had their thyroid gland removed. Then, when eating adequate carbohydrates their carb cravings went away. Imagine that.
MJ-
Good to hear and welcome.
AaronF-
Good input as always.
And me and Croxton are set to Skype it up next week over some topics. Hopefully we'll get somewhere with those conversations.
:) aw made me smile and blush at the same time. But I have no time for that, air squats need to be squatted!
Hey Sean Croxton did a super interview with the author of Deep Nutrition, really good stuff, two segments worth. I promise it will not waste "Mattie Time". Tell him thought that his 'YO!! WHAT"S UP Y'ALL?!!!" on each and every podcast has made me claw at my ears in pain more than once.
xo
your friendly neighborhood hag
Nice post !!