Divorcing macronutrient restriction has done some wonderful things for me in the last year since I fully embraced it. For starters, I have a much more relaxed relationship with food. I feel like a participant in society again.
My mental and emotional health is back to peak form as well. Unless I fail to get good sleep or really depart from the quality of my diet in favor of low-quality sweets with refined sugar, my mood stays very stable, and I’m about as rational as an insane and irrational guy can possibly be.
My sleep quality has improved. No more 1-2 nights per week up till 2 am in a complete state of restlessness.
Body and breath odor is much better. Bowels are great. Allergenicity to pet dander is slowly but noticeably decreasing. I actually slept last night with a cat on my bed without wheezing. Skin is the best it has been since the early low-carb honeymoon that lasted for just a few short months.
But nothing has been more shockingly amazing than the complete disappearance of heartburn. I’m actually surprised that I haven’t written about this in greater detail. I guess I expected it to return, but it hasn’t. I could certainly eat every bite on the plate in the photo above and have no problems whatsoever.
I actually had some serious indigestion problems. Those problems began around 2005-2006 while eating a scant diet focused around raw foods. I ate tons of raw nuts and seeds, avocado, a little raw cheese, lots of raw fruits and vegetables, dried fruits, raw honey, extra virgin coconut oil, and even some quinoa sprouts (dude, that is SO not fit for human consumption). I didn’t seem to have problems until I started my summer as a Wilderness Ranger hiking 50 miles per week and doing heavy labor on such fare. Then, trouble started brewing right away.
I noticed it more clearly because the simple act of drinking water was the biggest aggravator of my indigestion. Water! Digestive wuss for sure.
In the summer of ?07 I did an about face and switched to Schwarzbein with religious fervor. Heartburn was minimal in the beginning stages, which took place in March and April of that year ? but lo and behold, once I started heavy duty exercise again, the heartburn quickly returned. Once again, water was my nemesis, and while reading the work of some of the most oddly-named and biggest digestive pussies on earth ? Konstantin Monastyrsky and Aajonus Vonderplanitz, even I started to convince myself that water? That’s right WATER! Was a digestive liability. Of course, I’m not the first to have some food intolerance that led to bashing that substance based on some historical or evolutionary basis.
?It must be the water. It couldn’t possibly be ME that’s the problem!
That’s why, sorry JT, I’m not a believer in ?finding out what works best for you. That type of investigation is a great way to determine what you don’t tolerate so you can start to wonder why and do something to fix it. It’s this constraining mindset that really holds people back.
I saw an extreme version of this primitive mindset as I read Datis Kharrazian’s Why Do I Still Have Thyroid Symptoms? on the beach, in which Kharrazian says that if you feel sleepy after a meal, you have exceeded your body’s carbohydrate tolerance and will never be able to eat that many carbohydrates again. Actually sillypants, you can get over post-meal sleepiness within weeks (or in my case days) and begin to turn the tides of insulin resistance in that time period as well. That’s a separate side tangent though. Video-worthy perhaps.
Seriously though, I couldn’t drink so much as a sip of water within 3 hours of eating a meal without inducing major heartburn. I thought maybe it had something to do with a bacterial infection I might’ve picked up from drinking untreated stream water (I drank about 100 gallons per summer).
Anyway, while reading Kharrazian’s book I came across a tidbit of information about metabolism and heartburn. Seems like the metabolism has control over the hormone gastrin, which controls the secretion of HCL for digestion.
When on a restricted diet, I kept Sherlock Holmes-ing my meals to figure out what I could eat, what I could and couldn’t mix together, what my meal spacing needed to be, when and how much water I could drink and so on to keep my symptoms of heartburn down. This is a vicious cycle for sure, entering into a game of whack-a-mole in which the pace of the game keeps speeding up. Combining this with lots of metabolically-destructive overexercising (30 hours of cardio per week), the indigestion got worse and worse. Even on totally opposite diets ? one low-carb/high-fat/very low sugar vs. super high sugar, near vegetarian, high-carb, my heartburn was the same.
Then I decided to just say ‘screw that? and started eating pizza and what not. I quit thinking about macronutrients other than making sure to get a lot of all of them and eat until I didn’t desire another bite. That was almost exactly one year ago. My heartburn problem that lasted for 3 years and got ominously worse with each passing diet switcheroo went away in about 72 hours. It has not returned.
I can now eat absolutely anything and everything. I can overeat. I can drink a whole quart of ice water with a 1,500 calorie meal. Heartburn? Not in the slightest. Yet, eating a chicken leg with a slice of toast and slab of butter was enough to totally upset my stomach upon drinking as much as 2 ounces of water afterwards just 1 short year ago.
Digestion-wise, I have undoubtedly become the Henry Bieler ?adrenal type? with flying colors:
?As digestion and detoxication of food poisons depend greatly upon oxidation in the liver and intestines, it follows that the typical adrenal type, with his perfect oxidation, has thorough digestion. In fact, he may and often does boast that he can eat any and all kinds of food without discomfort? He can dine on the most impossible food combinations imaginable with no evil results??
Anyone else have a similar experience?
Yep, was starting to develop heartburn on occation when I was in my vegetarian days. Before that ridiculus dietary venture I never even had thoughts about heartburn.
It continued into my LOW CARB stint as well.
Now, heartburn hasn't even crossed my mind until I read this post.
My big problem was gas and bloating and that has all but disapeared as well.
In fact I seem to be able to eat the most ridiculus combinations of food with no ill effect what so ever.
THE FREEDOM!!!
Nice post Matt. Although I do agree with your stance on not avoiding macro nutrients but instead facing them head on to fix the problem, I do want to point out that there are certain foods/poisons that just cannot be overcome (at least not in one's lifetime but perhaps with thousands or millions of years of evolution).
No need for me to really specify what foods I'm talking about since the "proof is in the pudding". Meaning, history has given us pretty good clues on what types of foods damaged different hunter-gatherer tribes who were probably at the epitome of human health before ingesting such poisons.
Tribes and cultures that were very likely to be the Henry Bieler "adrenal type" that either ended up morphing, or creating children, as the average SAD eater. To end a long rant short: One cannot fix his/her health to such a point in which he/she remains immune to the poisons that screwed his/her health in the first place.
Thanks Rosenfelt. I agree. Humans are unlikely to adapt to consuming tons of nutrient-free calories, chemical additves, highly-processed and chemically-altered food, etc. I don't mean for fixing digestion to give everyone a license to eat crappier food either. I definitely admit that the better my health has gotten, the lower the quality of my diet – abusing that newfound freedom of being able to eat anything and everything and feel great doing so.
Strange that this post came up. I stopped the milk diet after 8.5days due to lactose intolerance issues, that was on Tuesday. On Tuesday night I ate coconut curry rice and mash potatoes, and got severe heartburn. Same on Wednesday, heartburn after meals. After that no more symptoms, I assumed probably low stomach acid after the milk diet, but maybe I was producing too much… Might be something to look our for when you attempt the milk cure then phase off it.
I appreciate this post- I can't recall a time when I had heartburn specifically, but do resonate with the Sherlock Homes whack-a-mole game of trying to figure out what works best. It seems like such an arduous and uphill battle, and I've found it liberating to think that all of that can be overcome, and that isn't the mark of health after all.
I do remember as a kid some crazy constipation or something- I would routinely have a cold numb sensation in my belly when trying to poop (around 5-10 years old, probably), and remember at one point thinking- 'this is the worst natural pain that exists.' Crazy. I also ate candy and soda like a champ, and white flour, rice and margarine with the best of them, while being mostly vegetarian (a simple aversion to meat, mostly), and even mostly vegan (barely any cheese, no milk, no eggs except for in cookies and waffles). So I can imagine that I didn't give my little growing body all that much to work with. Whatever it was, that all went away eventually, and only occasionally have I remembered what that's like, thankfully.
But hey- since Rosenfelt brought it up, I want to ask the question outright, since I'm not clear on your take, Matt: is wheat safe to eat? We can maybe assume that highly refined, nutrient free wheat isn't, but I think I read in a comment that gluten intolerance is a symptom of hypometabolism. I have to agree with Rosenfelt that we see a pretty precipitous drop in human health in the first generations of the transition from foraging to grain consumption, and all of the corollary social and ecological problems (emergence of institutionalized inequity, vast disparities of wealth where once there were none, de-forestation and topsoil erosion, etc.)
Now I want to eat me some bread- had some this morning for the first time in months- high quality artisanal and multi-grain from someone who bakes locally. But I also want to cop to the fact that it seems to have been a rough road to get here- foraging and living roughly in balance forever basically, then growing grain and establishing conquest abroad and repression at home in almost no time comparatively. It's a neat little box to think that this is doing our bodies as little good as our relationships to each other and the rest of the community of life. But again, I do love me some bread, and am open to being convinced that grains, and wheat in particular, may, given the right circumstances, do well by us. What's your take?
Sorry, this is a bit off topic — but why is everyone so enamored with the milk diet? Your body utilizes nutrients different when you are growing (less protein requirements, etc). And most of benefits of milk would be from the fact that you are drinking human milk — not allergy causing cow/goat milk (and allergies can persist even if it is raw or fermented).
Sticking with veggies/fruit/meat/starches (low in omega 6and antinutrients) and you can't go wrong — even if you let yourself eat whatever you want from time to time.
I've heard the phrase from some people that there is no "magic" to vegetables (which I totally disagree), but when it comes to milk, I do feel as if there is no magic to be found there. Most of the benefits people ascribe to milk are actually from the absence of the crappy food they were eating in the first place. You can get your metabolic system running hotter but eating more — no need for the thyroid boosting chemicals in milk <—- which I think are akin to a minor immunological response much like an auto-immune disease revving up your thyroid. I don't want to go there, why would you?
Also, slight clarification — when I mention "chemicals" in milk, I mean substances in milk :P
Nice post. Aaron you have a point and it is exactly that thinking that has put me off even considering the milk diet. I do like me some Raw Milk though…..
As for wheat it is something I was phobic of when first transitioning from paleo to HED and to start I ate more sweet potatoes, but I have always eaten Oats on HED and I love em feel great.
When I re-introduced wheat it was fine sometimes I make some big boy sandwiches on whole-grain for lunch with salad, cheese, ham and they do me well, stable blood sugar and energy. I go for quality with bread but don't really sweat it so long as it is pretty wholesome, sourdough is best though… To think Paleo made me think I was wheat intolerant…..
As for digestion, it is now robust especially compared to what i was used to. I can eat pretty much anything and feel fine, funnily enough when I first started eating HED it was white taters that gave me the problems with digestion/gas etc…..
Ya I agree Matt. There is no doubt in my mind, that in the grand scheme of things (meaning more than just nutritional health but even mental/emotional), It's much healthier to watch "the game" on a Saturday night with a bunch of friends chowing down some pizza than being alone in your house on a Saturday night eating a grass-fed T-bone with organic green beans drenched in organic pastured butter… so SUCK IT Dr. Harris!! You can add that to your 12 step program lol
Aaron, We are enamored by the results that the Milk diet has brought many patients in the early 1900s and that is why so many people are giving it a try. In fact, the only way to really know if somethings works for you is to try out. At least that's why I'm doing it.
But, so far I agree with you on the fact that there might be no magic in the milk diet since I seem to be doing worse on it then when I was eating HED.
FrRRRRRRRREEEEEEEEEEEEDDDDDDOOOOOM!!!!!!!!
troy
Matt,
Interesting post, but your simplified understanding of my advice is not completely correct. I have seen you make similar criticisms towards Ayurveda because you have had disorders of the all three of the various types, which showed a complete misunderstanding of that system as well. Just because I say find out what works best for you as an individual doesn't mean you can't improve and expand upon what works for you. What works for one person will not work for everyone else.
I had severe problems from following the milk diet. Developed such a severe ear infection that my ear drum exploded and my doctor thought I was going to have permanent hearing loss. Are you saying that I should have just kept chugging along? Same thing happened when I went low carb/paleo and again developed sever adrenal burnout. Are you saying I should have just stuck with it until my body adopted?
I hope you don't fall into the delusions of almost all of the of the other diet guru's out there. They all have the same story, which is finding something that works for them and then promote it as the cure all for everyone else. I fell into the trap of following their advice in the past and ended up with the severe consequences mentioned above.
JT-
You had severe problems NOT following the milk diet. I say do it or don't, but halfway is probably not a good idea, or bending the rules such as chugging cold milk which is strictly warned against.
It's a fine line between ignoring symptoms and blindly following advice vs. trying to overcome weaknesses. But there's no doubt in my mind that if you cannot eat carbs, protein, and fat mixed together there is something wrong. A restricted diet is the last resort for those who have exhausted many avenues of trying to fix their metabolism.
Matt,
Why not overcome the problem of chugging cold milk? I thought this idea of overcoming all of these dietary difficulties was the whole point of your post?
I had the WORST "gatritis" ever following a restrictive, cleansing type diet. I seriously couldn't eat anything and even when I didn't I would have this terrible burning. I ended up eating nothing but apples for three weeks (apples are prob. NOT the best digestive choice-ha) and it just got worse. Lasted for a long time until, you know, the holidays when you start eating anything.
On a side note, I saw striae can form when cortisol is high. I have this all over my stomach and inner thighs from fairly recently when I, once again, undernourished and overexercised in the name of health.
I was just wondering if this goes away when cortisol is reduced or if its here to stay?
It's interesting to note that low carb dieters commonly suffer from heartburn as well has high carb dieters.
Heartburn medicine, both OTC and prescription, are very common and most people follow the low-fat, and therefore high carb diet.
So perhaps it's really about balance. Lots of things have U shaped curves where too much or too little causes problems.
The only time in my life when I've gotten heartburn is from eating too many carbs. Especially if they are not processed properly. Like un-soaked oatmeal will give me heartburn, but soared oatmeal will not. Although lately I've noticed that tomato sauce gives me heartburn.
Aaron: I think part of the fascination with the milk diet also has to do with the fact it's like getting the benefits of fasting without depriving yourself of nutrients. Kind of the best of both worlds. And yes, avoiding negative foods 100% during the milk diet probably has to do with its positive effects. But I will say that I found it much easier to avoid said foods on the milk diet compared to a balanced real food diet. My 23 days on the milk diet was the longest I've ever gone without some kind of small cheat. That was a pretty big feat for me, expecially considering it took absolutely no willpower whatsoever to accomplish this.
Matt, I'm also curious about your views on wheat. You say that other sources of carbs are preferable (potatoes, rice, etc.). Do you think that increasing one's metabolism with HED can help overcome gluten sensitivity?
I ask because I seem to do better without wheat, with regards to digestion and food craving . The more I read about gluten sensitivity the more it seems like wheat is something that just isn't very suitable for consumption.
I also wanted to add, I can relate a lot to your experience. I have suffered on and off from pretty bad digestive troubles, I lost a ton of weight and looked like death. When I was trying to figure out what the problem was, I became so paranoid about what I ate and it just got worse and worse, especially when ending up on a raw vegan diet.
I was on vacation at a retreat and they had three all-you-can-eat buffets, and I had some sort of shift in my thinking, decided to screw it, and ate three big meals a day. Slowly my digestion started to get better and my appetite came back.
I was never able to get back to fully normal digestion and energy though, and I didn't stick to the three big meals. But the change was really miraculous and I think you right on with not giving in to all of our supposed weaknesses. I'm still trying to figure out if certain weakness are still best to be listened to, though.
Matt,
I have another question for you. If you disagree with me on doing what works for the individual, then why do you still avoid sugar? It is because you still have bad reactions to it and it doesn't work well for you. Taking your own advice shouldn't you overcome this intolerance by downing a bag of sugar a day until it works?
In the past I had a bad reaction to sugar as well, but now I have overcome this intolerance and find large amounts of sugar to be a healthy addition to my diet, even better than starch. But, I wont tell you that it is good for you just because it works for me.
JT, I think Matt is simply trying to say we can all do well on a diet of mixed food of a decent quality to satisfaction. High balling on sugar is something not many human beings can thrive on that is obvious…..
Day 23 of the milk diet. I've actually gained 4 pounds in the past two weeks – I'm at 199 pounds now. This is odd because I didn't gain any weight in the first week, and prior to that my weight had been perfectly stable at 195 pounds for six weeks. If anything it feels like I've lost some ass fat, so I reckon this is mostly muscle gain.
Blood pressure is stable at 140/85. The headaches still persist and my back and chest acne has gotten a bit worse. Am I wrong, or are these all symptoms of increased release of toxins into the blood? I'm still having problems with extended walking and feet muscles aching/stiffening up, after half a mile everything below the calves start to feel like a block of wood and one of my feet almost went numb before I got home. Not really sure how to interpret this, but it's definitely more intense than what I went through on the HED.
Why is it obvious that people can thrive on sugar Chris? Your interpretation of Matt's advice is not what Matt said in his article:
"sorry JT, I’m not a believer in ?finding out what works best for you. That type of investigation is a great way to determine what you don’t tolerate so you can start to wonder why and do something to fix it. It’s this constraining mindset that really holds people back."
This is why I am questioning Matt, and challenging him to follow through with his own advice to fix his own intolerance and get over his constraining mindset.
In the above post I meant to say: Why is it obvious that people CAN'T thrive on sugar?
JT, I think there is a difference between having an intolerance to certain whole foods, and having an intolerance to something that does not have any nutritional value. Many intolerances are to foods that are otherwise unprocessed and nutritious, whereas sugar is neither of those if you are referring to sucrose. A sugar "intolerance" may be the body's normal reaction to sugar, rather than an abnormal reaction to it that is caused by a damaged metabolism.
I used to have heartburn years ago during my low-calorie vegetarian days. Every time I overeat (this was not actually planned but caused by rebound hyperphagia), a horrible heartburn appeared. Also, my stomach felt like it was going t explode.
Now, after years of eating without cutting any macronutrient (and eating lots of meats of course), and having eaten hundreads of meals like a competitive eater, not only that my stomach has adapted and it doesn’t hurt at all but heartburn is nonexistant too.
In my experience, heartburn dissapears just because of the highly adaptable nature of the human body. Overeating massive quantities of complex meals is training. The key to avoid weight gain is to do it sporadically. Matin Berkhan eats a whole cheesecake for example, every 6 to 8 weeks, as well as more frequent refeeds as well.
The same with many stresses imposed to our bodies. For example, cold showers at first made me feel like I was dying, and now, they are simply part of my routine.
Max
I have never had heartburn and one thing that has really struck me over recent months reading blogs like 180, MDA etc is how many health problems people have, even young people, I had no idea.
I also have a question, i can eat low calories for weeks on end and i have never had rebound hyperphagia, why would this be?
Brian H, My comments refer to Matt's claim that it is a bad idea for the individual should find out what works for them. According to Matt any sort of intolerance is just a weakness in the body that you should be able to overcome, preferably by overfeeding on this item.
I do not have an intolerance to sugar, neither does Ray Peat or many of the other people who follow his advice to consume sugar. Most normal healthy people tolerate it fine as well.
But, I would never claim that this is healthy for everyone, because I don't believe there is a diet or food that is healthy for everyone, because I say everyone should find out what works for themselves as individuals. This is the position that Matt has specifically claimed is false.
Jedi,
For how long did you cut calories and how big the calorie deficit actually was?
Max
Jedi,
Scott Abel believes that if you are eating a relative caloric deficit (500-800cal) that metabolism will not decrease and many of the harmful/negative things associated with calorie restriction are avoided.
Sorry JT, but you are so fun to mess with!
Okay okay, I overstated the "screw the find what works for you" thing. Clearly there is a fine line. We all ultimately DO have to find what works for us. But this "typing" idea or "I can't eat this or that" mindset is limiting and one I have no choice but to challenge a little bit.
I've been eating the crap out of some sugar lately too (not that I recommend doing that). I tolerate it just fine. Stupendously better than I did 1-2 years ago. That doesn't make sugar overload or eating a lot of nutrient-free calories okay. Peat may be able to eat ice cream and drink orange juice all day, Gorske may be able to eat only Mickey D's. That doesn't mean that refined sugars aren't net negatives – clearly they are and sometimes it takes generations for the damage to be revealed.
Like this weekend I was hanging out with a guy that grew up in Zaire. He has perfect facial and dental formation. A fine specimen that was the product of a highly nutritious diet of native foods among his parents. He is healthier than I am, despite having been a hardcore heroin and cocaine addict and spending many years eating jail food in prison. That doesn't mean we can all mimmick his lifestyle to achieve the same level of health that he has. Some people can get away with poisoning themselves while others can't. I maintain that refined sugar has proven itself time and time again to be a powerfully-negative substance. I can eat it now without immediate negative consequence, but that doesn't mean I'm going to make it a habit and start calling it a health food now because it makes me feel good.
The gluten issue is a complex one, beyond what I can bring up in a comment. But it's safe to say that gluten intolerance is more of a digestive and metabolic problem. Fantastic health has been achieved on a high-gluten diet, but I'm fully aware of the dangers of consuming lots of gluten if a person is highly sensitive to it. I prefer other sources because they are intact and not in pre-ground, rancid form like wheat.
But the gluten issue is unbelievably overblown. The fact that some people have problems with it does not make it an inherently pathological food. Eliminate it if you want, but don't declare war against it. I don't believe it is a ROOT cause of ill health, but can certainly exacerbate many conditions. Fair enough?
Matt,
I'm not mad at ya, just trying to help you out and make sure you don't develop a bad case of guru-itis by claiming what works for you works for everyone else. If you start personally consulting with many clients, you will quickly realize that there are different "types" of people that will respond very differently to diets and exercise programs.
One of my best friends is like your buddy from Zaire. He is about as close to a perfect physical specimen as you could get. But, he has grown up eating nothing but junk food his whole life, all of his many brothers and sisters are the same. There is more to it all than just diet. Our lives are very different from our ancestors in more ways than just diet.
Matt, I aked Peat and he says refined sugar is fine as long as the diet is nutritious enough… To be fair, I know of no proof that the meere addition of sugar to an otherwise adequate diet disrupts the metabolism. Deficiency itself is more than enough to destroy a population. At most there are the Kuna, which have a traditional diet, but consume lots of refined sugar (50 grams plus). They health seems, at least, much better than that of moder populations, though not perfect. They are high carb and high sat fat, I think, but there may be of course more factors at play. Your thoughts?
@Riles, thanks for the thoughts.
@Max, I think my maintenance is around 1800, so I have gone 3-4 months at around 1200-1300 cals no problem, these days I always add in regular refeeds. If and when I increase calories it doesn't make me ravenous
Matt,
As long as someone is not eating fructose as the majority of there daily food intake, would not the other contents(glucose,starches,fats) of the diet make up for fructose not raising/stimulating leptin?
Or, does fructose in and of itself somehow stop the formation of leptin due to its presence?
I have not seen any research on a mixed diet not stimulating leptin.
Let's see, for about 2-3 years, just about every evening I didn't necessarily have heartburn, but just upset stomach. I don't know exactly the cause, because I was under a good bit of stress (many small children, end of day is stressful) but I was EXTREMELY health conscious.I would get all worried that I wasn't doing this right and we really should be eating that and so on. I did lots of things- expensive probiotics, make my own kefir, drink raw apple cider vinegar and other things. They all helped a lot, but still, I would barely eat enough to not be hungry at night for fear that I would have upset stomach all night.
Well, this summer I was in my third trimester of my 5th pregnancy and in the process of moving. I couldn't devote all the time needed to baking our bread and soaking and sprouting and fermenting etc. (Sally Fallon follower here) So I said screw it. We started eating a lot more processed food, but most of it was still from scratch.
It all went away! And that's in the third trimester when the baby cause lots of heartburn anyways. I had ZERO heartburn. And with the exception of a few times, I've not had anymore night problems since I started eating whatever the heck I wanted.
Oh and Matt, I've been literally pigging out, on good and bad food. And you're right, I get hungrier and hungrier and want to eat more and more and I am CRAVING potatoes. Not pasta or bread or even sugar, but potatoes and starchy veggies and meat. And the occasional Dr. Pepper, ahem.
I think I've lost some weight, and I checked my basal body temp yesterday and it was very low, below 96 degrees, and this was AFTER I had gotten up to feed the baby. Hmmm….guess there's more work to be done huh.
Anyways, I too was dumbfounded to realize that when started eating what I craved and wanted and quit worrying about what I was supposed to eat and cram it down my gullet, those stomach problems went away.
Now I know why :)
Jessica
Hi Matt,
Love what your doing here.
On the subject of gluten (and casein since both are reported to have opiate effect in some). This subject is a big part of what lead me to your blog. We were instructed to remove all dairy from our kids' diets in January and did so. Immediately we saw benefit. It was like having 2 different children behaviorally (the baby is too young to really tell much). The interesting thing to me was after about 2 weeks the benefit seemed to go away.
We were then told it is like peeling back the layers of an onion and finding all the things that they are sensitive to. Now one professional (our occupational therapst) said we needed to go the Feingold route another (naturopath) said we needed to go gluten free. We opted for gluten free and again saw immediate results in health (not so much behavior). Dark circles went away, minor skin rashes disappeared, my husbands pot belly went away, allergies seemed better, our energy levels were more stable, constipation was better.
My concern was my 7 yo daughter was constantly asking me if something was healthy to eat. It broke my heart to hear my 5 yo son ask someone if it has dairy or "luten" in it. Any time they went somewhere we had to pack a ton of food because they were like little birds…"I'm hungry, I'm hungry". So I started to worry that they weren't getting enough calories. AND the benefits began to subside.
During this time I actually had been following Mark Sisson and thought he had the answer to all of our ills. My husband for the first time ever asked if we could keep eating this way b'c the weight was falling off and he felt great (normally he humors my food experiments and just eats what's put in front of him).
I found your blog and at first thought this guy is crazy. But as I continued to read, it all started to make sense. It explains quite a bit of our health journey as a family.
I am now reading through your eBooks and have read Scharzbein's first book and am now on the second. Right now my main focus is healing my husband and myself. If the pupil test is any indicator, both of our adrenals are shot. I also think I read somewhere that hemorrhage damages adrenals…I almost had to have a blood transfusion after the birth of my first child which lead to SEVERE post partum depression. It was horrible.
Nothing like getting off topic:) I guess my point is that you can start removing things from the diet (like gulten), but where does it end? You can drive yourself batty with this approach. I honestly think the stress was more harmful than the benefits. I have added butter and raw milk back (which the baby can't handle at all, he's getting goats milk) and we will probably not have gluten until more healing happens, but I no longer feel the need to be militant about it.
I think for the first time in my life I am experiencing freedom from worry about what we are eating. I plan on starting HED for hubby and I this week. The rest part will be most difficult, but I'm ready to let some things slide so I can get more sleep. I'm hoping to be able to overcome a lifelong addiction to sugar and more recently caffeine.
Any tips on dealing with irritability in the initial phase? I seem to get a bit moody when I cut out the stimulants…okay, A LOT moody. I need to be able to have a fair amount of patience as I continue to parent/educate during this process.
Thanks for all the great info here! (sorry for being so wordy:)
Jessica,
I was wondering about how this relates to heartburn in pregnancy. I get it from the very beginning. I can actually tell when I'm pregnant by the heartburn. I just figured it was related to pregnancy hormones like relaxin and/or maybe there is truth to the wives tale that babies with lots of hair give heartburn. My last 2 pregnancies were the worst and my boys were born with platinum hair almost long enough for a ponytail!
I also think most mom's of small children have adrenal burnout!
Jaime and Jessica,
I totally agree that most moms of small kids probably have adrenal burnout. Since I stopped drinking coffee a month ago, I have been exhausted. Every day when my 1 yr old naps, I fall asleep reading to my 3 yr old.
I also had bad heartburn, and 3 babies with full heads of hair!
Jessica, I too came here via Marks Daily Apple, after following that way of eating for a few months.
Facing perhaps similar (maybe milder) issues with one of my sons, he has allergies that seem to be developing, dark circles under the eyes, trouble sleeping sometimes. Trying to figure out what to do about it.
Unfortunately, this hasn't been my experience. Back in my garbage-eating days, I had terrible heartburn every night (or acid reflux or whatever), sometimes so bad I'd gag on the bile taste coming up. I got to eating papaya enzyme tablets by the handful, which helped, but wasn't a solution.
Going to low-carb eliminated it absolutely. Gone overnight, no symptoms whatsoever. In discussions with other low-carbers, the elimination of heartburn was probably the most consistent improvement reported. If I'd drift off the diet for a couple days, like at Christmas when the desserts would be too tempting, that burning would come back to punish me. One or two meals wouldn't do it, but more than that would. The only other thing that would cause it would be drinking lots of tea, but even then it would be mild.
Now that I'm introducing more starches into my diet, the heartburn seems to be coming back, although not nearly as quickly as bingeing on sugar did. I've wakened a couple nights recently with that old burning bad enough to make me spend a couple hours sitting up until it subsided. It may be triggered by a certain food; I haven't narrowed it down yet.
Today I'm starting the milk diet (raw, of course), so it'll be interesting to see if that has any effect. If it's simply caused by too many carbs, the milk diet should have me on fire; so if I'm fine, then it's more specific than that. It's definitely something (or a quantity of something) I wasn't eating on low-carb.
My husband suffers from heartburn, especially in the last 6 months. I've noticed he's been eating smaller meals. He used to be the kind of guy who would eat anyone under the table. When we were big pasta eaters, I'd pretty much serve him double what I'd serve myself and know that'd he'd go back for seconds. I've been worried lately that perhaps the shift away from pasta to a diet with more meat and potatoes is causing this. He has a lot of stress at work and some sleep issues too. maybe while I'm doing the milk diet this month I should serve him pasta till it's coming out his ears and see if that helps.
In my late teens to probably sometime in my 30's I would have God-awful heartburn all the time, downing Brioschi and tums. Nowadays I get heartburn a couple times a year…usually in November…right around one of those holidays…not exactly sure what it is…LOL!
Jamie-
Thanks for the comment, and being wordy. Obviously I'm a big fan of wordiness. Serial blabber for sure.
That's really a great dilemma, and one that anyone that goes down the health rabbit hole usually runs into at some point. I guess what makes 180 unique is keeping the endpoint goal in mind. Other people seem to be willing to do or eat anything in order to avoid symptoms – like the followers of Vonderplanitz (the gentleman I referred to as a digestive pussy above), who will eat rotten meat and feces for health. Vonderplanitz once lived off of his own urine for 41 days.
180 is about doing what we can to have to do LESS to insure good health, not more. Funny that I'm often referred to as an extremist, when my primary mission is to rescue people from dietary extremism.
On the topic of gluten and behavioral issues, I found the work of Natasha Campbell-McBride to be the most interesting, as she recommended getting gluten and casein out for healing, and then actually reintroducing it – even to autistic kids, after a couple years of digestive healing. Now that is real healing.
As far as recommendations for your moodiness goes, it sounds like your adrenals are definitely run down. As always, the key is to really eat a lot of food, and rest as much as possible. You might feel cranky doing so at first, but there's a good chance that this can start to fade away, perhaps very quickly. But even if you just ate well for months while still consuming stimulants you'd probably be able to drop them later and take adrenal restoration to the next level. You don't have to do it all in one day. It's a step-by-step process with whatever pace you find to be most comfortable. The less hard you are on yourself the better off you'll probably be.
The more of a long-term vision you have for the whole healing process, the more likely you'll be successful as well.
Jessica-
I've been humbled many times by saying "screw it."
On the Kuna-
How many generations have they eaten 50grams of white sugar per day? What a healthy person can do is not the same as what an unhealthy person can do.
I used to think it was a nutrient issue too, but was always skeptical, as in my childhood my diet was very nutritious but also contained sugar, and I was a wreck – but much of this might've simply been crappy heredity. My health problems cleared up, not with a change in diet or lifestyle, but by hitting puberty. I ate tons of sugar from age 12-28 but never had a single cavity. Only from age 2-12 did I have cavities, and tons of them.
McCarrison's work had a big impact on me too, as he saw people with full blown nutrient deficiencies on white rice diets that did NOT have tooth decay and several common health problems that only those on a "Western" diet with white sugar and white flour had. Cleave noted the same thing. Page seals the deal though when he shows how differently the chemistry of the body responds to refined sugar vs. refined starch.
Sadly, or strangely, Page recommended, based on his investigations, that same type of limited diet you've been fighting against: "The Page Food Plan was developed during this time not because Dr. Page was trying to create a diet but simply because he noticed certain foods upset the body chemistry more than others. His food plan was developed on the glycemic index encouraging patients to eat unlimited quantities of green leafy vegetables"
http://www.ifnh.org/Bio%20Page%20.htm
If you google further, you can confirm that his recommended diet was a low carb one. Even if sugar altered this "body chemistry" (no sarcasm, just context), according to him, so did all carbohydrates apparently… Specially in sick people.
This is fun.
Btw, Matt, how was really your diet as a child? Did you consume that sugar alone? What about donuts? What about other factors, specially according to your recent knowledge.
Mmm, about the Kunas, probably Stephan has the answers.
I want to understand why unrefined sugar is ok and refined is bad. As long as you are eating a nutrient abundant diet how can adding white sugar on top cause problems? How would a body know the difference between eating say a sweet potato vs. a white potato with white sugar added to make the sugar content equal?
It seems to me that if you are eating a balanced meal(fat/protein/carb)with nutrients in it, then eating ice cream or a piece of cake with it would make no difference except just more calories.
From what I can understand, the real problem comes from when you try to live solely on white flour and sugar as are main source of calories, displacing valuable proteins and vitamins and minerals.
On the subject of adrenals and sleep – anybody got any clues for how to get to sleep earlier, w/out drugs? I've always been a 2 in the morning kind of person. Lately, hubby switched to working graves, and after years, I just can't sleep at all w/out him. But I still have kids and life, y'know? And this whole thing about adrenals healing between 11PM and 1AM – is that true or just something everybody repeats? If it's true, I'm seriously SOL!
Jamie – I have the same thing with kids – make a diet switch, things get better for awhile, and then either new problems or problems come back. Me, problems go away, but not them. Very frustrating, especially since I seem to intuit what my body needs, but can't with them – and they only intuit missing out on candy! I strongly suspect my being terribly unhealthy when pregnant has messed them up even more than the sugar, etc, could have done. GUILT! AHH!
Matt,
Nice post, I haven’t dropped in with a comment for a while so I figured what the hell!
The first time I got heart-burn in my life was about 3.5 years ago during my college years (junior or senior year I believe). It freaked me out and I thought something was seriously wrong with me. I honestly had no idea what heart-burn was since I had never had it before. I asked around and I thought to myself ?OHHHH snap so that’s what heart-burn is??? it sucks, but good to uh know I guess?..
I have had heart-burn a small handful of times during the past two years. It basically only seems to occur with me when I impose an extreme imbalance on my body. For example, two months ago I decided it was a good idea to eat sushi in the morning for breakfast before a tennis match. I mean it was a California roll, I forgot about it the night before and didn’t want to waste it. Besides, it’s just crab meat, rice, and soy sauce, I mean beats something lame like cereal right? For the record it looked delicious. An hour or two later I began playing and was up 4 games to 0 in the first set. Then one of the worst cases of heart burn I have ever had massacred me and I lost the next 5 games straight; eventually dropping the set 7-5. I took a tums somewhere in the first set, and the heart-burn was gone by later in the second set (perhaps 45 minutes to an hour later)?. Maybe the "PH" level of that meal was a little acidic? That makes no sense, but I’m not sure why it hit me so hard. I felt confident in my ability to eat sushi for breakfast as fuel without any ill effects. To me heart-burn is my body’s way of saying DON?T DO THAT YOU IDIOT!
With regards to the milk diet: While I generally agree with most of your logic and research direction, I don’t understand why you would push yourself towards the milk diet if your digestion and overall health is at a record high? I’m not sure I understand what you’re looking to gain from it. An underlying theme since the start of this blog has seemed to be avoiding all diets. Well the milk DIET, is in fact a diet. Am I missing something here?
I would look forward to a comment or post where you explain the milk diet and what you seek to specifically gain from it in further detail? That would be nice. Anyways keep up the good work.
@Lorelei aka Hawaii Girl
?On the subject of adrenals and sleep – anybody got any clues for how to get to sleep earlier, w/out drugs??
Have you tried physical activity of some sort in the evening or even afternoon? I have always had a tough time falling asleep, but this really does the trick for me. I’m not sure what you’re into, but any sort of sport you enjoy or even a moderate cardio work-out may do the trick.
Riles,
You are making some really good points regarding sugar, and I agree with your reasoning. I don't think white sugar is any more negative than white flour or white rice. The unrefined just has more vitamins and minerals. The only time I see it as a problem would be if you only ate these refined foods and developed a nutrient deficiency. I think that the sugarphobia is no different than the saturated fat phobia.
JT, I'm curious about the sugar in your diet. Was this always the case or did you have to get your body used to it? And how do you consume it? Pouring sugar on top of a meal doesn't sound very appealing, nor does drinking it mixed with water.
About adding small amounts of sugar to otherwise healthy meals, maybe this could be a way of teaching the body to handle it better. At the moment I try to avoid it, but if I could handle occasional sugar without it turning into huge cravings, that would be optimal.
JT, Riles,
So you are saying that consuming refined sugars including high fructose corn syrup has no effect on the bodies ability to metabolize nutrients?
…metabolize nutrients efficiently?
BrianH, I make Kool-Aid! I use 1 cup of sugar with 30 grams of protein and some kool-aid flavoring. I drink my coffee black and go to workout while I sip on my sugar protein drink. I use to have a problem with sugar when I had severe adrenal insufficiency due to prolonged low carb/paleo dieting. I no longer have a problem, but it took me about a year to get better.
Nathan,
I don't use HFCS, it is made with GM corn and is a highly processed product. I think Riles has posted a study on the different effects of HFCS and sucrose. Nutrient content is probably the best answer to why unrefined is better than refined, if it really is better.
Nathan the way I see it is that sugars are nutritive, therefor they can be used for energy and are not "drugs". In my opinion all sugars have to be either bad or good.
I don't see how making it "pure" can effect can make it negative unless you are consuming only sugar at meals. At that point the body can only process so much fructose at a time, it will then either be turned into triglycerides or converted to glycogen and stored in the liver.
I am starting to believe that if unrefined is ok then refined is just as ok.
Riles-
Let's suppose carbohydrates in their whole form come packaged with magnesium and B vitamins. Let's suppose further that when we eat carbohydrates, our bodies need to use magnesium and B vitamins in order to properly metabolize them. If you eat a bunch of refined carbohydrates, then not only are you not getting extra magnesium and B vitamins, but you may actually be depleting your body's existing stores of these nutrients, as it needs them to metabolize the carbs whether you actually ingested them with the carbs or not. Some people can get away with this for a long time, probably because their grandparents and parents ate relatively well and passed along greater nutrient stores to them, or because they've otherwise eaten enough nutrient dense food along the way to offset the losses. These people never draw down their stores to zero, or near enough to it to put them in starvation/conservation mode, so they may never suffer any serious consequences. But I suspect people who didn't inherit very substantial nutrient stores, or who have depleted their stores through years and years of nutrient deficient eating, cannot get away with many refined carbohydrates, at least not until they've rebuilt their stores (and, by association, their metabolisms) through a sufficient period of nutrient dense overfeeding.
Lorelei-
For six or seven years, I routinely went to bed between 3 and 5 am and slept past 11 am. Now I get to sleep between 10 and midnight and wake up between 7 and 9 most days. I made the transition gradually, over a few months, without stressing over relapses, and now I seriously get tired after the sun goes down, when just a year ago I was convinced I'd be a night owl for life. I recommend minimizing or eliminating the use of your TV, computer, and electric lights after 9 pm. Once the sun sets, I just keep off all bright and overhead lights, use small table lamps with puny bulbs only, and stay off the electric screens. It works for me, and I get tired at the right time. On the other hand, if I pass an hour under bright overhead lighting after 9:30 or so, I won't get tired until after midnight.
Matt-
I've followed your blog for a few months now, and it is without a doubt the best nutrition blog I've found. Thank you for your novel research, analysis, and writing, and for your time. I'm one of those people no one else (mainstream doctors, low-carbers, etc.) knows how to explain: symptoms of hypothyroidism (low blood pressure, low body temperature, low libido, chronic constipation, slow healing), but perfect thyroid blood tests, with years of massively high refined carbohydrate/crap eating (1 lb. spaghetti dinners) and habitual sedentaryism, yet an incorrigibly low bodyweight (as low as 145 lbs. at 6'3" last year). Oh, and no matter how much I eat, I can always eat more.
It's too early to declare victory just yet, but my feeling so far is that your theories may well have advanced me from merely *speculating* as to the cause of (and solution to) my metabolic issues, to, dare I say, actually *identifying and understanding* both the cause and the proper solution. I've been WAPF-"compliant" for almost a year and did low-carb for about four months. Low-carb wasn't bad–I felt good mentally–but I also felt like my physical symptoms were remaining at a plateau, and I certainly wasn't putting on any weight as desired (not sure what I expected from a diet touted for its weight loss benefits). Well, a month and a half of high-everything (grain-free, but with starchy roots and tubers most days), brought me up from 152 to 165 pounds–just 5 pounds under the highest (and healthiest) weight I've ever reached. Other symptoms are still present, but I'm optimistic they'll resolve over time, as this whole idea of nutrient deficiency leading to slowed metabolism leading to insatiable hunger just makes so much sense and seems to describe my situation exactly. I never dieted, I just ate nutrient-deficient processed foods against a backdrop of poor sleep and high stress for too long. Anyways, to wrap things up, I'm on day three of the milk diet myself. I'll let you know how it goes, and thanks again for all your insights, Matt.
Lorelei aka Hawaii Girl: Not being able to sleep until after 2am is a very typical sign of adrenal fatigue. There's a lot of ways people deal with it, some may work for you and some may not. Kind of a trial and error thing. Here's a few suggestions off the top of my head:
– Lights/TV/computer off at least an hour before bed. Dim lights are ok. Do something relaxing.
– Don't go to bed hungry. Hunger switches on cortisol and adrenaline. Food will turn it off, especially carbohydrates.
– I think Peat suggested gelatin before bedtime for a good night's sleep? I know I sleep pretty good if I've had gelatin that day.
– Watch out for coffee. I'm extremely caffeine sensitive and a couple cups will have me buzzy for many hours. I rarely drink it any more because of that, and certainly not afternoon.
– Magnesium and GABA are good bedtime supplements for calming. I'd try the magnesium first.
Dr. James Wilson says if you can sleep in between the hours of 7-9am this may combat some of the effects of going to bed so late (though obviously that's not ideal). I personally know that on the rare occasion I get to sleep in past 7am it's really rejuvinating for me.
As you heal you'll probably notice it's easier to get to sleep earlier. In fact a lot of people (myself included) actually find themselves getting tired and able to sleep 10 hours a night for a few months once they reel in those overactive adrenals.
JT – Koolaid! I've never tried it with protein mixed in although I doubt I would do well on it.
For sleep I have found that melatonin is helpful if you take it a bit before bedtime. I also find it hard to go to bed early and wake up early, usually I can't get to sleep before 12 or 1. But being able to wake up early without an alarm is a great feeling…
Mike Jones, I understand what you are getting at but why are we condemning sugar(fructose) when it is in fact all carbohydrates that cause supposed deficiencies.
And once again, you would have to literally live on white rice, white flour, white sugar to become compromised.
But then you could become deficient eating any one natural "unrefined" sole carbohydrate by itself too.
And once again, you would have to literally live on white rice, white flour, white sugar to become compromised.
Haha, well that basically is all I lived on through much of my early twenties. That and pasteurized 2% "white" milk.
I understand what you are getting at but why are we condemning sugar(fructose) when it is in fact all carbohydrates that cause supposed deficiencies.
I don't think all carbohydrates cause deficiencies, because I don't think unrefined carbohydrates are a problem. My feeling is that a whole beet, for example, contains sufficient cofactors and nutrients besides the sugar such that its sugar is not going to cause any deficiencies when you consume it in whole form. It should be positively good for you. But if you eat that same sugar out of its natural context, in isolated form, I'm suggesting that it might rob of you something then, unless all those other cofactors in the beet were just there for no reason, but I doubt that. So if that makes sense, that's why I'm condemning white sugar. And I would guess a similar scenario plays itself out with refined grains like white rice and white flour, so I'm not just singling out white sugar; however, grains are a somewhat different case because of the heavy anti-nutrient load and difficulty of digestion in whole form. They really do require processing in ways that a beet does not. But refining down to white rice is probably taking things too far.
Haha, I had a similar diet as well.
The cofactors I think is not really relevant though.
I like to think of Butter in this way: First you take milk. Then you separate the cream from the skim. Next you churn the cream until the butterfat separates from the buttermilk. Therefore the end product butter is a fairly refined food with alot of its cofactors removed but is supposedly fine to eat.
I know that is a simplification but I think it is relevant.
Good point. So if refining in itself isn't always bad, then maybe the key thing to focus on is what and how we're refining.
In making butter, you're starting with a highly nutrient dense food and using a simple, artisanal process to isolate what appears to be the most nutrient dense part (the fat). But what you get is not just an isolated macronutrient (as in the case of white sugar), but a food that remains full of fat-soluble vitamins, minerals, and other nutritive factors.
In making white sugar, you're starting with far less nutritionally dense foods, and using often much harsher industrial processes (such as described here: http://befreetech.com/sugar_sweet_poison.htm ) to isolate the part that tastes the sweetest but basically is just an isolated macronutrient, without any accompanying vitamins, minerals, etc. So I think there's a legitimate difference between these two forms of refining.
Lol, actually white rice is much more nutritious than white sugar…
Besides, the metabolism of sucrose is different than that of glucose.
That was fine slap of good sense if there ever was one, Mike. I know I've been getting on the "side of sugar" lately, but it is funny how people simply forget about the essentials. Energy alone is not food, and it never has been. I'm sure one can graph the decrease of magnesium in (whole) foods compared to heart disease and find one hell of a correlation.
Brian,
The protein I use is Peptopro which is completely clear and doesn't taste milky like most protein powders. It is the only powder i do well on.
EL66k,
Why do you say this?
"actually white rice is much more nutritious than white sugar".
Will,
I agree that most of the problems people associate with refined sugars and grains is due to some sort of nutrient deficiencies. If you have a highly nutritious diet, then I doubt this would be a problems. This is the reason I use unrefined sugar.
Sugarphobes,
Is refined sugar the only thing you are against? If so is it only because it has been refined and no longer has the nutrients? If this is the case do you still have a good reason to avoid unrefined sugar?
@ JT: You make some strong points, To me though being a sugarphobe is due to the issue of how I interpret my body to process it. I just feel better when I eat less refined foods. I remember the days I was into "Berardi's" stuff and I would have two servings of Surge or a similar sugar protein drink during after my workouts I gained huge amounts of fat real quick…..
Also you should I would be interested to see a step by step recovery plan to those of us who have been destroyed by Paleo/Low Carb as you seem to have done a pretty good job recovering. Plus this site seems to have a load of recovering Paleo dieters…..
@ Mike, great points and I do agree with you that we should eat as unrefined a diet as possible. And I myself don't really eat any sugar refined or unrefined. But, I think that eating *some* white sugar/flour in the context of an otherwise nutritious balanced diet may be perfectly fine.
It was only when Price noticed that these items replaced their traditional foods that health was compromised.
@Chris, what else was in your diet when you were taking Surge?
The way I left paleo was by eating Oatmeal! This was high starch but digested extremely slowly so i had no hypoglycemia and was able to switch from low carb to high carb with out much trouble.
Adding to the sugar discussion, I recently began adding more unrefined sugar (like orange juice, raw honey and fruit) to my diet. I notice I can eat a fairly large amount of these and not feel any after effects. However, if I eat refined sugar this is not the case. Refined sugar gives me a weird adrenaline feeling (sweaty palms, heart racing, etc.). But I can down a hefty glass of orange juice and not feel this at all. I recently found rapadura (unrefined cane sugar) on Vitacost in bulk and ordered some. I haven't tried it yet, so it'll be interesting to see how this affects me.
JT: Where do you get the Peptopro?
Hi Matt!
Do you think that Schwarzbein's recommendation not to eat too much is bad? Hmm… :O
@ Riles: At the time I was eating very Berardi style. Starch only after workouts protein and fat rest of the meals plus Sugar/Protein during and after workouts. Eating every 2-3 hours all that stuff…. trying to incorporate g-flux etc….
As soon as I added the carb/protein drink fat gain went through the roof. I noticed that chocolate milk was better tolerated.
I ended up adding size but got pretty chubby in the process. After that I found out about CrossFit and then gravitated towards Paleo which really F-Ed me up……
Mike Jones-
Thanks for stepping in. This is right in line with my chapter in 180 Diabetes called "Nutritional History" which everyone should take the time to read. It's all about the calorie to nutrient ratio. If you run at a deficit, it doesn't matter how good you feel – eventually that will catch up with you or at least your progeny.
And yes, white flour and white rice are far more nutritious than white sugar or HFCS. Plus, as I've stated, there are fundamental metaoblic differences between how the human body handles starch vs. fructose. I'm not saying one is good and the other is bad, but one needs to understand the metabolism of both to know which is more applicable in correcting imbalances.
I certainly don't want to get anyone into a habit of raising their metabolism and then eating more refined sugar. That is an awful combination – using more vitamins and minerals and taking in less. The free eBook that I'll be working on later this month should clarify a lot of that.
Mike C-
I just recorded a video this morning about my milk diet caper. I don't want to do it, and have no real need to do it. I also don't condone this kind of extremism unless it is warranted, and of course I have a curiosity about the milk diet for severe issues. But really what it boils down to is that my girlfriend is getting her jaw wired shut and will be on liquids only for 3 months. I've felt all along that I wanted to sort of see what she is going through by being on an all-liquid diet myself. All this will be explained in the video I release either later today or tommorrow.
Valtsu-
Schwarzbein recommends against overeating because she feels like high insulin spikes from large meals and consuming too many carbohdyrates increases insulin resistance. This is false. Her other beliefs are genius. I'm just taking it a step further by omitting that stumbling block. I high-carb Schwarzbein Principle if you will, without the erroneous anti-saturated fat hoo-ha that came to dominate her most recent book.
Thanks for the answer Matt! Maybe I'll finally try to really eat more rational amounts of food. Even though my daily calorie intake seems to be less than 2000kcal and I'm still recovering of a burnout, it's just soooo difficult to eat more than I have eaten until now… Maybe it's because of some adrenaline addiction or something(?).
same here JT… took me about a year of of HED to come to the point i am at now with sugar…. a fine relationship i might add. I don't eat tons… but some in my coffee, or latte', ice cream, or cheesecake… mmmmmm….
I think you and Riles are right… some real sugar on top of a nutrient dense diet should do no harm.
troy
Milk Mouth. Don't ya just hate it?
The kids are loathe to give up dessert (and I don't blame them!) so we definitely eat something "sweet" then. I say "sweet" because compared to what we used to eat… we would have barfed before! But still, dessert definitely either has fruit or a bit of honey or rapadura or even (gasp) organic white sugar. Of course, at max, we have a tablespoon per person. We make our own ice cream with raw cream, kefir, egg yolks, and just a little sugar… yum. My point is, I don't worry about that tiny bit of sugar. After years of max sugar SAD and then a year of raw foodism (ie super high fruit), this is pretty good.
Thanks for the sleep ideas everybody! I think it's definitely not helping to be on the puter at night. And I do have the house lit up at night! I get very cranky when I can't see! I'll work on those. I also have a bottle of the "calm" magnesium stuff, maybe we'll try that again.
Can I just say I really appreciate all the recognition of adrenal burnout that goes on on this blog. Talk about a widespread and unrecognized problem, but then, that's largely what this blog is about.
im sorry but the fixing of heart burn is NOT the result of you HED… i eat real food, a lot of it, and dont suffer heartburn. however, if i OD on coffee… i can expect heartburn. it has nothign to do with pizza/fixed metabolism/high body temperature…i really wish you would take a different angle at your nutrition shpeel b/c i do think your bright and have read everything but it seems like your taking it down the wrong road.
I've never had problems with heartburn, but my 11 yo daughter has in the last few days been complaining, and it sounds like reflux/heartburn based on what she just told me. She eats HED-ish too. And definitely has adrenal issues. Hmm.
Speaking of heartburn…this is so weird. The only time in my life I've had heartburn before was when I was pregnant. But all of a sudden today I had it pretty bad. What is going on?
I've been doing HED for a month or so now. Initially I noticed no real changes, but in the past week or two, all these odd symptoms: headaches; an itchy dermititis that I had last year came back with a vengeance; and now heartburn.
I'm beginning to wonder if I'm doing something wrong (too many carbs? a reaction to dairy?), or is this a normal delayed healing response, or what.
Help?!
Elizabeth, I buy peptopro online in bulk at the proteinfactory. Someone wouldn't really need this unless they are training hard with high volume and had a hard time consuming enough protein. The only reason I take a protein powder is for convenience and because I have a hard time eating enough meat to get my protein requirements. It could also be good for someone who has digestive difficulties because the protein is already predigested. The problem is that it tastes like it is predigested, so you need to mix it with flavoring so that it doesn't taste like vomit.
Chris, I got over my adrenal fatigue by eating a Schwarzbein type of diet for about a year. Then i switched to a high carb bodybuilding type of diet. I also think getting back into physical exercise seriously again really helped as well. I disagree with Matt that most people need to be more sedentary.
I recommend going to see a doc who specializes in this area to get cortisol and hormone levels checked.
JT: Thanks for the info. I don't use protein supplements much. I usually manage to get in plenty of protein. I work from home so that makes it easy. But something like this might be useful for my husband, who could use some convenient protein from time to time.
Malpaz-
I overcame heartburn eating the crap out of some pizza and cutting out macronutrient restriction. That was not convenient for my "theories," but it was exactly what happened. I'm not saying pizza is now the wonder health food for everyone with digestive problems, just reporting on what irrefutably happened to me because it is interesting. I'm not steering the blog anywhere, just giving some disclosure on my own digestive changes. Clearly not everyone, like Golden Papaya, has the same reaction. Keep us posted on that papaya, that doesn't sound good and I wouldn't put up with much more of those negatives before bailing.
And yes, coffee can be pretty brutal on the stomach.
Has anybody here been able to overcome adrenal fatigue and digestive troubles on a HED diet? I'm trying to transition into it and I am am curious to hear about other positive outcomes. I understand that everybody is different but it would still be comforting to hear some good outcomes.
BrianH I was borderline IBS when I started HED in that I was either constipated or having diahhrea most of the time. There were maybe a couple days a month that I was regular. Since doing this, the reverse has happened and irregularity is the rarity now, maybe once every couple of months (usally after one or more restaurant meals).
My kid also suffered from chronic constipation. I have reversed this by replacing refined starch with potatoes and corn bread. He loves em and he doesn't even know they are good for him. (Please don't tell him.)
BrianH: I'd like to add that I'm convinced my digestive ills started with Weight Watchers. Before I started that I'd have irregularity maybe once a year. I could also trace my regular days when my digestive health was at its worst to mid cycle when my temps were highest. I really think body temp and digestion are strongly linked. I still feel better on my hot days.
Brian: I've definitely come a long way in my battle with adrenal fatigue in the last two years. I've only been HED style for a few months, but quit dieting/over-exercising about 18 months ago (aside from a couple small relapses). Since that time I've been eating plenty of food and exercising much more sensibly. I think being a mom of two little ones and several stressful life situations extended my adrenal recovery time, but today I think of myself as basically fully recovered, although I still find my adrenals are pretty sensitive to a few things.
So does HED accelerate the healing process?
Just started HED today and all the kids actually slept til almost 8 though sleep was interrupted with the baby up at 2 running a fever. I feel like I could sleep another 3 days. The hardest part is going to be keeping up with kids and preparing food with my energy so low. Anyone know how long this will last?
Jennythenipper-interesting about your kid's chronic constipation. I have one who has had major battles with it. I too think some of my digestion issues were at least exacerbated after doing WW to lose baby weight after baby #2. I'll be interested to see how this all unfolds.
Has anybody here been able to overcome adrenal fatigue and digestive troubles on a HED diet? I'm trying to transition into it and I am am curious to hear about other positive outcomes. I understand that everybody is different but it would still be comforting to hear some good outcomes.
I'm quite sure that I had/have some adrenal problems and so far HED was the most effective thing I ever did to get my energy levels back up. I think Matt once mentioned that this is partly due to the nature of restoring leptin sensitivity which in consequence also regulates most other hormone loevels. Could be wrong there though. Apart from that I am experiencing some major coldness/tiredness right now, but I think this has more to do with the fact that I might have caught myself a rather serious infection.
My heartburn started after doing a lot of "cleanses" such as the Master Cleanse or going 5 days with only raw fruits and vegetables. Felt great during, felt crappy afterward.
Jamie-
The tiredness can last for weeks. I doubt it will persist much beyond that. This period of tiredness I really do believe is restful and rehabilitative to the adrenals, whereas other "feel-good" programs masquerading as health regimes can actually do damage.
I've noticed feeling a lot more tired on the milk diet. Maybe my body is going through another phase of healing. Or maybe it's just a fluke.
To all with adrenal fatigue/failure…take Brewer's Yeast too;-)
@ Will: how much brewers yeast do you recommend taking daily? I picked some up today so am giving it a go, my tabs are 500mg each….
Nice to hear there has been some good experiences, I'm looking forward to seeing how things go. I think in the past I have always been impatient with healing and didn't give certain things a fair chance to see if they worked.
I also happen to be a huge caffeine addict but I don't think I can cut that out right now. I'm thinking maybe lots of food and some sort of adrenal support for a month, and then taper down. Right now it's like 4-5 cups a day and I know it really has a negative effect on me.
Thanks for the feedback.
Hey Jenny, the corn bread you feed your son… Please share the recipe!
@Brian: My totally unqualified advice would be to try out Yerba Mate. I don't know how beneficial it is, but it is supposed to have energizing effects just like coffee, except that that stimulation is much more gentle and stable. I think I also once read someone even recommending it for people with adrenal fatigue. I really don't know how qualified that advice is, so I'd suggest you do some googling yourself. I certainly will do, as I plan to perhaps give it a try in the near future.
@Chris…it depends on the person (sorry for the cop out answer!) My wife takes a quarter of a tablet occasionally (it makes her scalp itchy for some reason), but that is enough to help her. Me, on the other hand, I take 6 when I wake up, 3 at breakfast, 3 at dinner, and if I eat some crappy food I may throw down a few more for good measure, LOL! My tablets are 7.5 grain but I have no idea what that equates to in mg. As far as negative effects, the only negative that I have heard was, that it upset someone's stomach once or twice and my wife's itchy scalp. She has tried MANY times and it happens every time. No idea why. BTW, I bought the powder for my kids and I give them a pinch a couple of times a day. I mix my son's in applesauce but my daughter takes hers in peanut butter…she actually asks me for it!
Thanks Will. 7.5 grain is 500mg so the same as my tablets. The pack says upto 6 a day took my first 3 with lunch today will try upping the dosage and see how things go.
How did you get into Brewers yeast and have you noticed anything from the stuff? Also same question to JT who I think has mentioned taking it in the past……
When taking brewer's/nutritional yeast you may experience Niacin Flush. It is a warm/prickly/itchy feeling on the skin due to the B vitamin Niacin opening up blood vessels and capillaries. It can sometimes be uncomfortable but it is not negative.
Brian: I think you're right on the money about cutting out caffeine. Definitely make other lifestyle changes first and then work on the caffeine. BTW, Schwarzbein made a short list of caffeine beverages from worst to best:
Diet soda
Regular soda
Caffeinated water
Yerba Mate
Coffee
Black Tea
Green Tea
Thought that might come in handy when it comes time to taper off. You can also just blend decaf coffe w/ regular, slowly increasing the ratio of decaf to regular.
Ann Marie from Cheeseslave recently gave up her coffee with the help of DLPA supplements, too.
@madMUHHH: I may try that out. I remember a while back I had to cut out coffee/tea because of anxiety, and yerba mate was the only thing I could drink without getting nervous. So for whatever reason it does seem to have a different effect from coffee.
@Elizabeth: Caffeinated water? What else will they come up with. I was actually considering trying DLPA for sugar cravings, but didn't end up buying it. If it can help with caffeine at the same time, all the better :)
@Jennythenipper
I've noticed feeling a lot more tired on the milk diet. Maybe my body is going through another phase of healing. Or maybe it's just a fluke.
For some, that is quite normal.
@Elizabeth
Adding to the sugar discussion, I recently began adding more unrefined sugar (like orange juice, raw honey and fruit) to my diet. I notice I can eat a fairly large amount of these and not feel any after effects. However, if I eat refined sugar this is not the case. Refined sugar gives me a weird adrenaline feeling (sweaty palms, heart racing, etc.). But I can down a hefty glass of orange juice and not feel this at all. I recently found rapadura (unrefined cane sugar) on Vitacost in bulk and ordered some. I haven't tried it yet, so it'll be interesting to see how this affects me.
Orange Juice – check
Unheated Honey – check
Most fruit – check
rapadura – no
Gave me a weird feeling so I just let it go. So did coconut flour. Those are the only foods I have tried recently where I had a strange reaction. And I can usually eat anything, at least for a little while, including loads of junk, without any noticeable issues.
I'm not sure about powdered foods (including dehydrated cane sugar). Seems the very process transforms them into something quite problematic, no matter the source, at least for me.
I may try that out. I remember a while back I had to cut out coffee/tea because of anxiety, and yerba mate was the only thing I could drink without getting nervous. So for whatever reason it does seem to have a different effect from coffee.
According to the Schwarzbein list Elizabeth posted, coffee is even "better" than yerba mate. Most of the time I heard it is the other way around, but I certainly don't wanna discredit Schwarzbein and she certainly has a good reason for listing them that way. So maybe it's not such a good idea after all. Hmmm.
@Chris…my foray into Brewer's Yeast is a bit of a long story. I thought that I had posted it on one of these comment blogs so I was just going to post the link. But when I started looking through the past comment blogs I couldn't find it (maybe I didn't post it!). I was going to just paste it as a comment but it exceeded the size, soooo…if you want the scoop, send me an email at wlorkovic AT yahoo DOT com and I'll send you the whole story. Sorry!
@Riles…I had heard that before, but one time we were "testing" straight niacin (long story) and it did NOTHING to my wife. My response to niacin? She had to call poison control while I sat in a cold bathtub, LOL! That's why I am leaning away from it being a flushing type of reaction but who knows, things change over time. Good thought though.
Michael-
Ditto your hesitation about powdered foods.
SAME EXACT EXPERIENCE Matt!! Water was my worst enemy after meals. Every 5 minutes burp….burp….burp….everytime I moved…..burp….burp…burp.
Raw foods, vegetables, alkaline diet, digestive enzymes. I tried it all (or so I thought). This went on for a full year. Nothing worked.
And because of my OCD type of behavior, non stop research, trial and error and pure relentlessness to figure this damn thing out I finally did.
For me it was……
1)Salt Brine
2)Eggs
Unbelievable. I know.
I later found out through a hair mineral test that I was deficient in 3 of 4 macro minerals. Sodium, Calcium and Magnesium. Salt is needed for HCL production of the stomach. Calcium and Magnesium of course are buffers among other things. And protein..well…enzymes are made of protein.
Anyway. Now I can eat whatever I want with no problems.
I especially love Chaga smoothies.
Thanks Matt for sharing your experience. It was nice to hear a story similar to mine.
Later for now my friend
Nice work Sleuth. And to think we might have once blamed it on water.
That's a great lesson for all. If you don't tolerate a food, that doesn't mean that it's the food's fault. The reason you don't could be several degrees of separation away.
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