By Matt Stone
“C’mon, fire me up. Pour your sugar on me. Oh, I can’t get enough. I’m hot, sticky sweet. From my head to my feet, yeah.” ~Def Leppard
The answer to our question, and just about any health and nutrition question, is “it depends.”? But the following is a level-headed, science-based, as well as experience-based set of guideposts to help you determine the right answer for you as an individual.
Carbohydrates have received a thorough lashing of late with the explosion of self-proclaimed nutrition experts on the internet, of which I was guilty of being one myself when I first started doing this (and bashed carbohydrates in favor of fat in delusional hopes that fat was some undiscovered ideal fuel source…. uh, not so much as it turns out). But carbs still rule, and will always rule, especially when looking at the whole spectrum of generally healthy diet and lifestyle?practices.
Although I do believe there are a few rare cases of people who may do better obtaining their dietary energy primarily from fat rather than carbohydrates, temporarily or permanently,’those are anomalies that don’t really enter into a conversation about general food consumption. I consider the minimum carbohydrate consumption, for most, is roughly 50% of dietary calories. Thus, if you need 3200 calories per day, 1600?of those calories should come from carbohydrates – about 400 grams.
However, the minimum increases any time you consider doing?physical activity. Again, there are many individuals in poor enough physical condition that exercise will only make their health worse, not better. But from a general perspective, being physically active has far more benefits than drawbacks.Taking exercise into consideration, the logic then follows on this trajectory…
- The more carbohydrates you eat before exercise, the more liver and muscle glycogen (stored carbohydrate) you have.
- The more stored glycogen you have,’the harder you can exercise and the longer you can exercise.
- The more carbohydrates you eat after exercise, the faster and?more fully you will replenish glycogen stores.
- The faster you replenish glycogen stores, the more often you can exercise.
Carbohydrates and full glycogen stores do other things as well, such as lower cortisol, increase metabolic rate, and improve sleep – other very potent ingredients in the overall health formula. Thus, carbohydrates are the primary substance allowing you to?exercise more vigorously?and more frequently due to their recovery-expediting effect. Combined with the metabolic effects of carbohydrates on cortisol, muscle fiber type (more fast twitch),?amount of glycogen storage in muscles and liver, and so on – carbohydrates provide everything from enhanced insulin sensitivity and glucose clearance to?improved fitness and body composition (changes in body composition are?most influenced by long-term, cumulative?adaptations to exercise of which carbohydrates determine how your body?performs and responds to exercise stimuli).
Consider the following – from Ellen Coleman’s thorough review of carbohydrate requirements for exercise…
“A mixed diet (50 percent calories from carbohydrate) produced a muscle glycogen content of 106 mmoL/ kg and enabled the subjects to exercise 115 minutes. A low-carbohydrate diet (less than 5 percent of calories from carbohydrate) produced a muscle glycogen content of 38 mmoL/kg and supported only one hour of exercise. However, a high-carbohydrate diet (more than 82 percent of calories from carbohydrate) provided 204 mmoL/kg of muscle glycogen and enabled the subjects to exercise for 170 minutes.”
In other words,?feeling and looking better boils?down to getting in good physical condition. And getting in good physical condition is not maximally possible without lots of carbohydrates. The more the better in fact – at least up to the point in the diet where so much fat is displaced that the diet is no longer palatable enough to foster adequate calorie intake.
The minimum carbohydrate intake for anyone engaging in pretty regular physical activity (say, an hour of moderate exercise per day on average), is considered to be 5 grams per kg of lean body weight. For someone like me with a lean weight around 85-90 kg, that’s over 400 grams per day. But with my extensive exercise experience with a wide range of exercise volumes, frequency, and intensities talking?- most people will feel an immediate improvement in performance and recovery, as well as a stronger desire to be physically active (and enjoy doing stuff physically more in general), in the range recommended for much harder training athletes – 7-12 grams per kg of lean body weight each day.
I would be more than happy to donate a portion of my genitalia to?have had a firmer grasp on this back in’the peak of my hiking and cycling days. Once I ate?a measly 150-ish grams of carbs per day all summer while?hiking 700 very slow, painful miles.Back then I had trouble putting things together,?even when I had trouble keeping up with a sedentary, potbellied fish biologist on one trip.Lack of carbs must starve the brain of considerable glucose as well!
How hard you exercise is also a big factor. The higher your heart rate while exercising, the faster you rip through glycogen supplies. Even 15 minutes of very intense exercise is enough to reduce glycogen stores by half – perhaps even more if you are really going at your maximum threshold. Easy, light exercise spares glycogen and takes a lot less carbohydrate to recover from.?But even if you are doing fairly light endurance exercise like hiking, you’ll notice you go much faster and much farther without breathing so hard if you?eat more carbohydrates as?opposed to less.
But, like anything else in the world of nutrition, exercise, and health in general, there is nothing that compares to personal experimentation as long as it is intelligently-guided (you are paying attention to the appropriate markers to determine success that is).Play around with your diet and see for yourself if this holds true. Pay close attention to:
- Your desire to exercise.
- How?hard or easy it feels when you are exercising.
- How long it takes you to recover.
To get your carbohydrate intake up I recommend’sweet fruit, dried fruit, juice and sweetened low-fat milk, breakfast cereals,’starches with minimal added fat – such as rice, bread, and potatoes, and exercise drinks containing dextrose or maltodextrin – especially before, during, and?immediately after exercise.When selecting from these foods,?you should eat what digests best, tastes the best to you, and allows you to get in the most carbs without peeing your brains out (lots of carbs per volume of water taken in with them, as discussed most thoroughly in Eat for Heat).
Good stuff. I’ve found that cooking rice with chicken broth and about a tsp of butter per dry cup makes it quite palatable but still very low fat.
Soy sauce and salsa to it for me with the rice. Breakfast cereal is the ultimate for me though. I have been eating some granola with dried fruit and 200 grams of carbs go down the hatch in a flash.
Gotta love Def Leppard! They are my 18 year old daughter’s favourite band.
After reading this, will have to switch back to low fat milk. My husband won’t drink the stuff though. Thinks it is just coloured water.
I’m not a huge fan of skim milk either, but my girlfriend and her daughter both prefer it WAY more than 2% or whole. So we’ve been using it for the last month and I do feel better personally with it, so I’m not complaining. It’s not like I drink it straight anyway.
Good and timely post Matt.
I’ve been following diet recovery 2 and eat for heat guidelines. I have also found that eating more carbs gives me more energy to exercise. I drink whole fat milk and consume whole fat yogurt though, should I switch if my goal is to lose weight?
Thanks
The reason for eating lots of fat and carbs together is to maximize calorie intake during recovery. But once you start exercising, the more exercise you get the more the diet should probably favor carbohdyrates – which automatically displaces fat intake. There’s no need to go to extremes, but you should expirement freely to see what you find working the best. If you aren’t eating a ton of fatty foods there’s no reason to avoid whole fat dairy products.
Thanks Matt!
Matt i bet if u keep eating like this your defo going to get lean its like ur doing a diet more based on carbs which in the long run should help burn fat, have u had a look at Mcdougall, Neal Barnard and other who promote this kind of eating even with exception of no animal product but im sure u do okay with a little animal product here an there.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U6GPMsJ3LPw&list=FL8ppJ6snL9P5Ioft-Ow31bA&index=4 here a video u should look at.
Is there a chance that this is due to the (I assume) unhomogenised state of skimmed milk due to the lack of fat? There are claims that the homogenising of milk creates transfats.
I don’t think it creates trans fats but Xanthine Oxidase from what I remember from my raw milk propaganda phase.
Whole milk is perfectly acceptable served with chocolate syrup and made into chocolate milk. Its my favorite post exercise beverage.
One of the females on the Olympic team this past year swore by chocolate milk post-workout. I have done a high carb diet while doing gymnastics and had difficulty gaining muscle. I doubt that the explosive power of gymnastics can be fostered on a high-carb diet, but maybe it’s just me.
The best postworkout from a purely scientific standpoint is a combination of protein and carbohydrates in a fast-absorbing form. The higher the glycemic index of the carbohydrate the faster glycogen is restored and the faster cortisol goes down. Dextrose and maltodextrin are used in most postworkout formulas because they have the highest glycemic index. I would think dextrose-sweetened chocolate milk might be even better than regular sucrose-sweetened chocolate milk.
“a combination of protein and carbohydrates in a fast-absorbing form” http://www.americansweets.co.uk/british-haribo-gold-bears-gummy-bears-tub-of-600-pieces-1458-p.asp
I saw this incredible dance performance on Friday and brought some of these to the dancers beforehand. Great show but one of the violinists was a little off and coulda used a replacement. :)
give me four to five years and I’ll be in good form to audition to the orchestra :)
super sweet of you to bring the dancers those :P
Thanks for another great and informal post! I know it’s off topic, but I have a couple questions that I haven’t found answers to and you haven’t really wrote about them either. I’m interested what you think about skin disorders, acne, cellulite, male pattern baldness, etc. The majority of people have problems with at least one of these, but still there’s no such thing like a “cure”. Are they hormonal or diet related? Do they indicate a not so good health? Makes me wonder…
Sure. Everything in the body is hormonal/biochemical. And what we eat, think, drink, and more all affects that – at least to some degree. But there’s no magic dietary cure for any of those things specifically. I’m sure many people have noticed improvements on all the things you mentioned on lots of different diets.
Re cellulite ;
On the Eatopia site I read a comment that said that dieting completely destroys the fascia of the skin- the interconnected weaving that kind of holds it tight and protects against cellulite.
ie, when you have cellulite, this connective tissue is weak and the cellulite bulges through the gaps.
Words to that effect at any rate.
You say there are rare cases where people would be better off getting their calories from fat. Are reactive hypoglycemics one such case? Eating lots of carbs makes me feel so tired and sluggish.
I really have a lot of trouble keeping myself stable. I’m still trying figure out which ratios work best. It’s hard to find a good balance.
Not necessarily as I think eating more carbohydrates is one of the best ways to overcome that disorder. Feeling tired and sluggish from eating lots of carbs can often signify high cortisol at the time you eat them. But this should be looked at as a relaxed, healthy state of being to spend time in. Massages and hot baths make people feel tired and sluggish too but that is rarely looked at as a bad thing. But I know what you mean. It can be tough to get the benefits of carbs when they trigger an acute stress event afterward.
How long does it take to see the benefits? I’ve been trying the high-everything diet thing since fall. I don’t place restrictions and I try to eat intuitively. I try to get most of my carbs from starch (mostly rice and potatoes).
I used to be sugar-addict years ago. I’m certain it either caused or exacerbated the condition. The more I ingested, the worse I got and worse I got the more I craved it. So I find the whole eating carbs to lower insulin thing counter-intuitive (but I don’t dismiss it out of hand).
I’m seriously confused. Maybe im just having a blonde moment, but i was just perusing 180 kitchen. The back of that thing is chock full of stuff I thought DR2 was 180 degrees from. Are DR2 and Eat For Heat the way to go, or what? I was all set to never diet again, but I’m feeling neurotic (old habits). Help?
When I pass out after a high carbohydrate meal,or high protein meal as well, I do NOT feel at all relaxed. I feel like I am in a coma and it robs me of ALL my energy for that whole day and beyond. I am looking into your material about suggesting starch at EVERY meal though because I have tried low carb for years to help with my reactive hypoglycemia, and it does help but my energy is not as good as I would like it to be. One weird point for me thought, is that I have Incredible endurance and can play basketball for hours and not lost energy and actually get better and more energetic the second hour???
My hypoglycemia went away with healthy doses of tapioca pudding made with sugar and vanilla.
Lately i found out about these tapioca pearls and wondered if they migth have a kinda similar sticky effect as in riceporridge? I was enjoying rice porridge lately but also found it still robbed me of minerals(blood showed very low iron&hemoglobin). Migth be bc im not tackling gguthealing by broth/gelatin.
Billy actually told me that no grain has much nutrient dense added value. So ive been put on a peatish inspired way of eating though high fructose still doesnt seem to do me well. So,i looked into the tapiocapearls as a substitute for rice and found that its completely starch and even highercarb than rice!and now ive become kinda scared of starch by the entire Peatgang.
I dont know what makes me feel good again .i hate myself for not being normal,as in having 3square meals a day. I have these moments satiating and fantasizing about all these kinda peat/eat4heat inspired recipes and then i go back to lethargy which causes me to not prepare anything/built a stock and so the same vicious cycle keeps rePeating itself. I actually need to staart a jobplacement as a roadmaker,next week with possibillity of a paid job finally,but im sure itll miserably fail going like this also from a practical view as i dont know what to bring for lunch or what i feel. like for that matter. Im constantly falling into eating the same food day in day out,that probably causes intolerances too.
Man,i wish i could hire a personalchef to cook&bake me an entire batch of food i could freeze as a stock and kinda show me the ropes!the only time i feel like doing this is way at midnigth which then is too late timewise.
I also wonder if the low iron is my own fault by constantly going to bed halfthrough the nigth which i must change also when i want to get this job. Meanwhile all i can dream of is emigrating to a sunny place preferrably at or near a beach,learning to surf,having fun in life,energetic free from foodfears/fatfears/feeling ‘too good’ etc…..
Have put carbs back and feel better and increased temps to an average of 36.5 but weight is piling on – up to 95 Kgs and I’m only 5’2″. Help! What do I do?
I would slowly start building your fitness levels and continue to eat more and more carbs – and be persistent with it for a long period of time.
l just don’t know how to eat about 400 grams of carbs or more a day if it’s not paired with quite reasonable amounts of fat and protein…Everytime I try to have a more carb-based diet l just get more hungry and more frozen! EspecialIy when it’s rice,potatoes,wheat and other starches. I can’t understand WHY? If l eat a big shake with 2 large bananas,1 orange,berries,whole milk and avocado and added salt and 2-3 boiled eggs with butter,cream cheese and coconutfat ,THEN I get all ‘warm and toasty’ like you always write about…But when I read your recommendations about eating more starches from potatoes and rice I get confused again…Should l try more? Am I one of the exeptions maybe? Anyone else here that also feel good with quite a lot of carbs, but not necessarily from starchy carbs. (I don’t feel BAD from starchy carbs, l just don’t feel especially good either-especially if I don’t pair the starches with quite a lot of fat and protein…)
I don’t even know HOW to eat 400 grams or more carbs/day…! Would you be so kind to just write down an ‘example day’ so I can just see what you mean? I think that the ‘example day’ for a metabolically heaIthy person that you describe in EFH is not even near 400 grams of carbs/day. Why? Or am I wrong?
Hey Cammi,
Here’s my food log from yesterday. Percentages break down to 67c/17f/16p, with 930g carbs http://imgur.com/u8Z8gGf
Obviously not everyone needs to eat 5500 calories (heck, I don’t most days, but yesterday I trained and was doing a lot of focused work, and I have been actively trying to put on some weight). You could eat half of what I ate and still get 400g+ carbs.
There’s a mix of starches and sugars, and ample fat as far as I was concerned (nothing tasted cardboardy or gross).
Experiment freely- I’ve found that orange juice really agress with me, more than Gatorade or apple juice (and straight water unless I’ve been playing basketball almost instantly washes me out). Morning time and after resistance training I seem to like starches with some sugar, other times just a bit of sugar is good for me. Just eat whatever strikes you and pay attention to how you feel afterward. You’ll get the hang of what works for you.
That’s getting after it son! I can’t believe you got a whole serving of SM down. That’s not easy.
Half serving post workout (with gelatin and Garden of Life), then half serving before bed. What, what!
That also explains a quart of milk, hah.
Your post-workout header-design is also live on the site. Hope you saw that.
Like a poet, buddy- you know it.
Thanx Rob! I’m from Sweden so I had to convert the measurements…Why do you have so strange measurements?!Oz,Ibs,Pounds,Cups,Servings….Gaah! What about just plain grams! Soooo much simpler! :-)What the ‘heck’ is a ‘serving’ of something? And ‘Serious Mass Chocolate’? Sounds impressive but I haven’t got a clue what it means other than it is… chocolate?;-)
Hey Cammi,
Serious Mass is a weight gaining supplement http://www.amazon.com/Optimum-Nutrition-Serious-Chocolate-Pound/dp/B000GIPJ0M ‘Serving’ is based on their info.
It’s designed to help people put on ‘serious mass,’ hah. It’s fairly tasty and seems effective so far. We’ll see how things shape out.
And yeah, us ‘Muricans have a funny bunch of measurement units. Imperial Units, baby- whoooo!
Matt, I still bless the day I found your common sense website and got a thorough de-brainwashing. I am still amazed at how you see through all the confusion in the health realm.
I have been refeeding for a month or two and boy, carbs have been good to me. I deteriorated badly on paleo but now I have finally put on muscle or whatever mass it is I don’t know but damn, girls love it. My skin is looking great, glowing like I was a baby.
Keep up the good work for us numbnuts. I loved Eat for Heat and Diet Recovery. Thank you for improving my life. I am trying to disseminate your wisdom.
Even the most hardcore paleo enthusiasts have eventually increased carb consumption over time, especially the ones advocating high-intensity exercise. Many are timid about it though, only recommending eating them postworkout and other silliness.
so what kind of diet do you think would work out well for someone whos a bike messenger. i ride 8 hours a day…it can be quite grueling and high stress on a lot of days. ive done it all on the standard bodybuilding bars and other ‘clean’ health food, like fruit ect. but my performance is now getting more and more sluggish and less explosive. i need to get better performance.
thanks
That kind of load is really tough. Every time I have exercised that much I have really struggled to get adequate calories in. A lot of dextrose-rich drinks and date bars and stuff like that might get you an extra 400-ish grams of carbs above what you normally eat, and that very well might help enough to get some juice back.
ok thats a good suggestion. i do want to get off of the mainstream bodybuilding food bars style of eating though and get into a more natual starch – potatos, rice ect – and protein plus some good saturated fat kind of eating. what do you think would be required as far as grams of protein per day so i dont waste away?
If carbs and calories are high, 1 gram per kg of bodyweight of protein is fine. Most will need at least 20-30 grams of animal protein per day in that scenario for optimal muscle sparing.
You could also use the Gu gels and things that triathletes swear by. Best way to get in sugar and electrolyte. Those pro athletes know what they’re doing, and they are racing for hours at max capacity. (I don’t think they’re cheap is the only issue, but maybe you could buy in bulk)
Also you may want to look into the drink mixes they use. Dextrose and a little whey protein usually.
Dextrose is ridiculously cheap if you buy it by itself.
J,
You might look at The Feed Zone cookbook website for some good portable rice based combinations that have been used with pro cycling teams. The post ride chicken fried rice is one of my favorites. These will digest easily, have good ingredients and not kill your gut.
Forgot to post The Feed Zone website. Best rice “bar” recipes ever.
http://feedzonecookbook.com/
I discovered the wonders of the Medjool date today while on a long hike. I bought a bag full at the local health food store, started pounding them half way through my hike and loved every minute of it!
I could use more sweet dates in my life…
P.S. I was hiking barefoot, e.g. the recent “earthing” thing, and I have to admit, I feel a gazillion times better having walked around a lot barefoot today and yesterday in nature. Slept great last night and woke up with a lot of energy for once. Sugar and bare feet…not a bad healing combo.
No wonder Sean, Earthing is one of the best destressors, I sleep with an Earthing sheet everynight. Makes a huge difference.
Very thought provoking, Matt. Thank you. Again, you sum up what used to seem complicated beyond my comprehension in such a way that I really get it!
Great post, especially this part:
“In other words, feeling and looking better boils down to getting in good physical condition. And getting in good physical condition is not maximally possible without lots of carbohydrates. The more the better in fact ? at least up to the point in the diet where so much fat is displaced that the diet is no longer palatable enough to foster adequate calorie intake.”
McDougall and the 8:1:1 people each make a valid point about the importance of carbohydrates, but both diets fail in the long run because it’s simply too hard to get enough calories without some fat. I think either diet would be realistic, and maybe even ideal, with a bit of fat for flavoring, as well as permitting a combination of starch and sugar (rather than a narrow-minded focus on one at the exclusion of the other).
In fact, in addition to increasing palatability, a little fat seems to promote health in surprising ways. When I tried a McDougall-style diet in the past, I ended up with acne, but it disappeared within days after adding some animal products back. A little fat also seems to aid my digestion, whereas too much fat ruins it.
Where I’m still undecided is the issue of protein. I have better digestion and energy when I stay away from high protein foods, but I still eat a bit of meat because I’m concerned about losing muscle mass. I wonder if fruitarians have low muscle mass because of low calorie intake, or because of low protein intake even with sufficient calories. Has anyone experimented with very low protein diets?
A final thought. It would be the ultimate 180 to discover that protein, not fat or carbohydrates, is the macronutrient most responsible for the obesity epidemic. Obviously, protein promotes weight loss in the short term, but perhaps it stresses the body in ways that promote fat storage in the long term. High protein foods are everywhere in the US (and other high obesity nations like Australia) and they certainly don’t seem to prevent excess weight gain.
I’m just speculating here, but it seems a relatively unexplored topic. I wonder if others have any evidence for or against this position.
I have actually seen this theory before. High-protein diets are known to be anti-metabolic. Sumo wrestlers eat high-protein stews, for example. All I know is that back before the obesity epidemic began people were eating lots of carbs and fat, not loads of protein.
I still think the obesity epidemic is due to something other than macronutrient comp, though, like medications, stress, chemicals in food, hormones in food and our water, PUFAs, etc. (Probably a combo of all of these)
Amy,
With all the resources that have gone into obesity research, I can hardly believe there’s still no satisfactory explanation. One thing that seems clear to me is that modern societies promote weight gain. If I ever get around to writing a health book, it will be about the traditional diets of ancient and medieval civilization, which I think is the key to understanding where we went off track.
My own family situation is a puzzle to me. My brother is grossly obese, to the extent he can barely walk up a set of stairs, but I’ve been a normal weight (though unhealthy in other ways) most of my adult life. What’s the explanation? He’s only a year older than me, and our genetics and childhood environment were almost exactly the same. I do know that his favorite food as a kid was steak, and mine was spaghetti. I don’t know if that means anything, but it fits my hypothesis so I thought I’d mention it.
I appreciate the detail about the sumo wrestlers, and I agree with your assessment of traditional diets. Carbohydrates were obviously the driving fuel of most ancient cultures, and I think they favored fat over protein. Fatty pork was probably the most popular meat of the Romans, and olive oil was a major industry in Greece. Cows and goats were kept for their milk, which had a high fat content, and their lean muscle tissue of those animals would only have been eaten occasionally, during a community sacrifice.
I think there are many satisfactory explanations for obesity and they are all incomplete. There is no one cause, and any attempt to make a sweeping argument is a flawed approach. Part of the problem, is that researchers are biased by personal experience and systems analysis is extremely complicated, especially when attempting to utilize information culled from different disciplines.
It’s been a while, but I remember reading that women tend to absorb and retain certain minerals better than men. Some of these minerals are common in meat(zinc being one) and I wonder if men’s hunger for meat is a way of trying to get these minerals in sufficient quantities, yet ruin their progress due to the high iron consumption(iron can block zinc and copper absorption).
I know that I personally feel better when I stay off too much meat. I don’t mind getting a good steak now and then, but having meat every day gets tiring very fast.
I have to have meat everyday. Not a ton but a 4oz serving or so. If I don’t I feel crappy really fast. I think we all have different needs, and this is why it’s best to listen to your cravings. I start craving meat pretty quickly if I’m not eating enough.
Obesity is a complex thing.
The reason protein can be problematic can be linked to several things:
a ) Too much of the bad proteins like Tryptophan. Before modern convenience we used to eat more gelatin and the “undesirables” of the animals that were lower in inflammatory proteins.
b ) Most animal meat contains a lot of iron. Iron and ferritin are being more and more linked to various western diseases and this is highly problematic since a lot of corn, cereal, and other food sources are now fortified with iron.
I am personally testing on myself a rather weird diet that is Peatarian plus Pescetarian. I drink a lot of milk and oj and I eat potatoes(sometimes cook myself a potato soup using various onions and coconut oil along with beef stock) and dark chocolate as well as various fruits. I also get myself some sushi to shake up things a bit, and once a week I’ll get myself something red and bloody. There are two things that this diet is limiting for me and that is iron and pufa and so far I’ve gained weight, but at the same time I’ve lost mid-section fat, meaning most likely that I am gaining muscle fat while losing the so called “bad” fat. I also eat a teaspoon of salt over the day to make sure I don’t get wasted on too much fluids. I am also considerably less bloated than I was before it.
Another side effect of this is that my libido has sky-rocketed. I am literally out of control in how horny I am while eating like this.
Yes, I went to this really interesting photography exhibition that showed people from dozens of countries in a picture with what they ate in a day. The Africans had the best teeth, were the leanest and strongest and ate the least. They primarily ate carbs with fat (mostly vegetable oil) with little meat. The Americans, Australians and Germans were just surrounded by meat and of course the massive volumes of food were very striking and had the most obesity in the photos. The obsession with protein in the fitness community doesn’t help this either, I think. In the mindset of a lot of people, I think meat=wealth, or plenty. What is more expensive at a restaurant than a big old piece of muscle meat? People feel like they are being deprived when they can’t eat big slabs of protein.
There are more factors at play here. McDougall emphasizes almost all low-fat starch, with very little sugar, which is nearly impossible to eat in large enough quantities. The 80-10-10 people eat all fruit but hardly any starch and all their food is raw and is not absorbed at nearly as high or a rate as cooked food (plus it’s very watery, which as you know is a big factor in anabolism). Eating both starch and sugar, cooked and raw, and plenty of very calorie-dense sources of those substances is different altogether.
Protien is not much of a concern eating a lot of cooked plant foods – a blend of both starches and fruit, for most people, and tons of carbs and calories, both of which have a protein-sparing effect.
Niko pointed out (below) that he lost muscle mass eating a low protein diet, even though he was eating a high number of calories. Maybe you’re right that the proteins in a fruitarian diet simply aren’t digestible, but I’m still curious how low a person can reduce his or her protein consumption without losing lean mass. Have you experimented with this?
It would be amazing if we could live on bread and jam (and a little butter or whole milk) and still keep up an athletic physique. I’d love to hear if anyone has accomplished this.
If you haven’t read this quote from Andy Warhol, I’m sure you’ll love it:
“I’ll buy a huge piece of meat, cook it up for dinner, and then right before it’s done I’ll break down and have what I wanted for dinner in the first place–bread and jam. I’m only kidding myself when I go through the motions of cooking protein: all I ever really want is sugar.”
It’s not difficult at all if calories and carbohydrates are high enough, and the quality of the protein is better than that found in fruit… http://jn.nutrition.org/content/103/12/1673.full.pdf
Also, you have to remember that fruit is very low in protein. 3-5% protein for most fruits. Where as most roots are closer to 10% and grains are typically 10-20% protein. Huge fundamental difference between fruitarianism and eating a more mixed diet that contains very little animal products.
Thanks for the link. I’m going to try eliminating meat from my diet (though not meat products since I still might want animal fat). Truthfully, I don’t even like the lean part of an animal anyway, and often I only eat it because of concern about muscle breakdown. I would definitely prefer just to live on starches, sugars, and fat–and I can’t imagine a cheaper, more environmentally friendly way to eat either.
I just had a huge plate of potatoes and rice at a local Mediterranean restaurant, and it was amazing.
The Vegan Solution is set to come out May 6th if all goes to plan. It will go into great detail on this kinda stuff.
I look forward to it. By the way, I just did a rough estimate of what I ate today on fitday, and I discovered that I am not very good at limiting my protein. Even though I ate no meat and removed half the cheese from my pizza, I still consumed over 100 grams of protein (10% of total intake). About two thirds of the protein came from starches, even though I ate a lot of low protein starches like rice and potatoes.
For what it’s worth, my fat intake was about 20% and alcohol is 5% (so far…), which leaves about 65% of my calories for carbohydrates (700 grams).
Protein percentage is still a relative term. Getting 100 grams from plant-based foods is probably like getting 50 grams from egg whites or milk. While on paper it might be 10% it probably doesn’t function the same as 10% from meat. Nah mean?
According to the Japanese studied you linked for me, egg protein is only 20% more efficient than rice protein.
Rice protein is pretty good. I think that’s why there are so many rice protein powders in the world of vegan protein powders… like Sun Warrior.
David, sorry for the question–but I was just wondering what your average intake is? If you know. If not thats okay– all that matters is “eat the food” :)
there is increasing evidence that dinosaurs had feathers and modern day birds are descended from them. in my opinion, this recent development is the primary danger of veganism, or withholding animal foods that our ancestors were adapted to:
http://m.ibtimes.co.uk/vultures-killed-fatal-cliff-plunge-pyrenees-464496.html
after about a year or so of strict veganism, i developed an unmistakable desire to hunt and an agressive nature, which was not part of my personality before. this has not gone away, even though i have not been vegan for years.
i was vegetarian for most of my life, and could have happily stayed that way. i wish i had. several people very well known for extreme violence and mass extermination of people have avoided animal foods. when gandhi failed at remaining healthy as a vegan, he pronounced that anyone promoting it was an “enemy of india.” i suspect that the vegan diet interfered with his ability to remain nonviolent, perhaps permanently.
also:
http://www.nbcnews.com/id/29537188/ns/technology_and_science-science/t/dinochicken-scheme-puts-evolution-reverse/#.UYcrTCvEoz0
Hmm. I’ve been committed to a combination of McDougall/80-10-10 and pure sugar in big amounts for a while. I put on some weight, but then had been very restrictive for years. I got some nice edema, cellulite, thyroid dysfunction, weird energy patterns and long-term skin issues (the latter three of which has been around for years). Long story short, added in coconut oil and I am a different lady. I don’t know if I have lost weight, but I feel like my thyroid could be balancing, water retention is gone, ketosis pilarisis is disappearing, skin less itchy etc etc. My hunger is stable, I am satisified, more warm. I have an annoyingly active job, and finally it feels as if my body is responding appropriately to it, and is able to keep up. And it is just a few tbsp a day, so it is still pretty low fat in context, since I still eat lots of carbs. I might even have lowered carbs a bit because I am just more satisfied, and don’t feel such a need to chug food constantly to keep warm. It is still early days though. I don’t know if it is particular to coconut oil, but given past restriction, just a bit of good fat seems to make all the difference to me.
Yeah, I have coconut oil, butter, chocolate, or cheese every day too. At some point the diet becomes too unbalanced. That’s why I tend to use the word “emphasize” a lot when suggesting people increase carbohydrate intake. Nothing extreme. Just going from maybe 45% of intake to 60% of intake.
Does anyone know if its ok to use expeller pressed coconut oil for everything? My family hates the taste of raw coconut oil on their food and it upsets everyone’s stomach. But everyone I ask tells me that expeller pressed is bad to use.
I doubt there’s much difference in how your body metabolizes “raw” versus expeller pressed oils. In my opinion, the promotion of virgin coconut oil is just a marketing gimmick, designed to make people pay more for the same product.
Jordan Rubin (who I consider a shameless con artist) started the trend when he promoted Extra Virgin Coconut Oil, and then trademarked the term so no one else could use it. People literally paid more–a lot more–just for the brand name. It’s just like how sunglasses become three times more expensive if you etch a designer’s name on the lens.
Long story short: Worrying about delicate distinctions like this, when you’re talking about essentially the same food, is not likely to contribute much to your or your family’s health, especially since they hate it and it upsets their stomach.
Haha. This should answer your question Keeks… http://180degreehealth.com/2010/11/refined-coconut-oil
Duh! Note to self, search site first if I have a question:) thanx! It didn’t make sense to me, the Mayan women where I’m from boil the coconut meat to get the oil and when I was down there a couple months ago I told my aunts that supposedly it’s better to eat it raw. My one aunt laughed and swore in Mayan and said that it would ruin my digestion if I ate it like that, boiling is the way it’s always been done. Go figure
I can’t eat expeller pressed coconut oil.
It literally makes me feel nauseous for hours afterwards.
No such problem with the refined Louanna coconut oil I buy from walmart. It makes the best brownies!
I use Louanna exclusively these days. Publix got ’em.
Abbie,
It is amazing how the addition of fat improves the taste and healthfulness of a plant-based diet. I couldn’t last a week on just starch without becoming horribly ill, yet when I added a bit of cheese to my pasta, or fried my potatoes in oil, then I did much better. The trouble is, I tend to add too many fats and proteins, and I’ve had a very hard time finding a diet that I can feel healthy eating. I think I may have unusual sensitivity to protein, including autoimmune effects (airway swelling, canker sores, etc.).
I doubt it matters what kind of fat we use, but I also tend to prefer saturated fats (though I don’t there’s enough evidence to say that PUFAs are really all that bad).
I am also sensitive to proteins. I do best with healthy oils/fats, starches, some sugars (fruit or cane), and a little protein. I don’t have the obvious autoimmune issues. My kidneys just don’t like them.
I generally eat protein out of a sense of duty, though sometimes I do get hungry for it. Even when I eating a more paleo-style diet, I always chose fatty meats and didn’t really enjoy the lean parts.
I wonder how common it is to react unpleasantly to protein. It’s sad to think how many people may be dutifully forcing down their protein bars and chicken breasts because they think it’s good for them, while in the long run they’re only making themselves sick (and generating stinky farts and equally odious breath).
I personally do okay on milk protein, but eating too much meat will make me feel like shit rather quickly.
Likewise. I have a lot better time with cheese than meat, though another factor there is that I’ll usually eat higher quantities of protein when I’m eating meat.
@David
It’s definitely not low calorie intake that makes fruitarians lose muscle mass. Back when I was a high fruit raw vegan I could put away 3500-4000 calories in a day but had very low muscle mass, despite being pretty physically active. Add in animal foods and I gained a lot of muscle and mass without changing my routine whatsoever. My change was from around 45-50g of protein a day to (initially) 125-150g or so a day. I’ve since found a nice balance around 70-100g of protein a day.
Interesting. Are you still eating 3500-4000 calories with your 70-100g protein intake?
I eat between 2500-3000 calories a day now, more if I exercise a lot.
I think I’m going to try to keep my protein intake to 70g/day or so and see what happens. I’ve noticed it’s actually hard to keep protein that low when wheat is your staple grain, which it is for me.
Another gem of an article, thanks Matt. I just wish you didn’t start off this article with a line from the worst Def Leppard song that was on the worst Def Leppard album (Hysteria album is when they had “jumped the shark”).
It’s an awesome line though, you must admit. Pour some sugar on me. I’m hot from my head to my feet? It’s perfect.
LOL! Good point Matt, it could be the Eat for Heat anthem.
This is crazy, not that I entirely disagree or agree for that matter. But shit, it all becomes so damn exhausting. Remember the days when you just ate some fuckin’ food and didn’t even know what a “carbohydrate” was??
Different people respond to different lines of reasoning. People often forget that carbohydrates are beneficial, and exercise suffers without them. But the body is pretty good at knowing what it needs if there’s no psychological interference. After every baseball game in the heat as a teenager I would go down a quart of orange juice after religiously. The harder the exercise you do, the bigger the carb craving after as well, in my experience.
The most important expirement done on nutrition/diet that has been going on for 50 years in France/Switzerland and if I remember correctly 12.000 has been participating(looking for help outside med system). After corrections from dietary dogmas they found body seeks instinctively ratio of around 70(fruit/sugars)/20 animal protein/10 oil seeds. Jam and toasties would not come too far from this ratio…They just do it on raw/best quality produce around.. Some of these people are in health state near unstressed wild animals. They also make survival trips to jungles(Borneo) without any food prep items and gorge on” poisoneous”berries on amounts claimed to be fatal by science(relaying on insticts of body).
The “founder” was ridiculed by press and thrown to jail(twice?) which is almost always a good sign.
For anyone interested in relativity of taste, digestion and so on here’s couple of links. Please note that jumping in to this would be idiotic and you’re way too educated and don’t have access to such produce. For most recognizing that when OJ goes from awesome to acidic and the only thing playing on your head is “must keep gulping in order to replenish liver glycogen” is idiotic.
EN translation of the book:
http://www.reocities.com/HotSprings/7627/ggindex.html
Pictures of the founder’s offspring(Naturally formed muscles without body exercise/competition sports):
http://www.rawpaleodietforum.com/general-discussion/can-we-do-without-vegetablesgreens/msg101256/'topicseen#msg101256
Otherwise interesting link(Semi-related):
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1626509/
Sounds incredible Ron Jeremy. I can’t wait to check those out.
I find it interesting that they also had massive buffet feedings at their recovery center but used sense of smell/taste to determine the most helpful food.
Also that cancer/tumor started forming on those that ate massive amounts of domisticated red meat for long periods of time (everything was grass fed).
All these things being said many ended up emancipated and personally I think instincts work on some level on prepared stuff as well. I’m confident that if you find the things that work for you even if its toast and jam and leave the saving of the world to others and you’re lucky enough to stumble out from some of the “psychological interference” you have a decent change at outliving these bastards. But his work should be kept alive for sure.
Also the point I wanted to make is how hard/impossible it is to instruct people on what they should eat. And there might be unlimited ways to maintain some kind of equilibrium in body. Aghories from India used to survive on their own shit, urine and dead bodies(I don’t know if they still exist since the originals were slaughtered by the Portuguese).
This burger of a guy (Guy-Claude Burger) was convicted for pedophilia. See more here : http://www.beyondveg.com/nieft-k/instincto-guide/instincto-guide1c.shtml
Irrelevant. Probably a good sign(everything that’s banned or looked down upon in France is worth looking in to) and he has his side of story.
It’s obvious that the organism is more intelligent than any of these shit health blogs you hang around in. And the taste change is a fact also noticed by those trapped on lifeboats on sea that only have raw fish for food. After some amount of fish meat (psycologically only edible part) the liver, eyeballs and intestines start to smell and taste like the sweetest and most rewarding cake you and I have ever tasted, as the organism balances the nutrition or what ever it tries to do. Also anybody who has have had a change to be in a place with abundance of coconuts notices you get physically sick of them after a while(the coconut doesn’t change).
That being said there’s obvious incoherences or stresses in environment(availability/cost of foodstuff, increased water content of fruit) that self perpetuates to minor starvation/metabolism loss for some(not all some are at super condition).
What they claim: no inflammation on wounds, no body odor, no need for shampoo on hair and even no sustained pain on fractures of bones(context). Sound like at high level operating organism.
And instead of talkin carb this protein that science has to come down to answer the question why do we have to talk this shit and why isn’t it possible for us to live without these crutches and what stressors make wild animals loose their top energy.
The fact that the guy sits here at at age 78 in perfect health with full shiny hair, after starvation in prison(didnt eat prison food) and cancer and chemo at age 26 is remarkable (The cancer came after 4 years on some “health diet” :). http://www.rawpaleodietforum.com/general-discussion/can-we-do-without-vegetablesgreens/?action=dlattach;attach=7563
Also think about the easiness of things, he just sits down couple of times a day no prep. and eats only things that taste fucking awesome until they don’t and everything works.
So this thing def. needs more attention from science community. But what do I know I just had some pizza and m&m’s… But cantaloupe melon can bring bigger satisfactory reaction in right context.
“Remember the days when you just ate some fuckin? food…”
That’s how I eat now. I don’t count anything anymore, and I love it. I did have to stop eating so much ice cream due to excessive fatness, but in general I just eat what I want when I’m hungry. If I want a snack, I usually have dates and almonds.
My “workout drink” is 30oz herbal tea with some salt, a tablespoon of sugar and a couple heaping tablespoons of gelatin for protein. Works quite nicely and tastes delicious.
Sweet baby Jesus, Matt!
I was just reading a preview of your book “12 Paleo Myths: Eat Better Than A Caveman” and read this gem:
“…like being bludgeoned in the taint with a Garden Weasel.”
I nearly pissed myself. That was pure gold.
If anyone would like to read a preview, check-out Amazon.com:
http://www.amazon.com/12-Paleo-Myths-Caveman-ebook/dp/B008ZGBFOQ#reader_B008ZGBFOQ
Or, if you need a Garden Weasel, check http://www.gardenweasel.com
Good stuff.
It’s kind of fun that in the end your recommendations in this post ended up being more or less what “nutrition” people used to say it was best–just think about the old-fashioned food pyramid, which scared a lot of people back then and now it’s seen as a lousy way to eat, not even in Paleo or low-carb circles. Once again I believe you more than I believe them.
Would you say that the food pyramid was more or less right, then?
Not necessarily. I mean, at the end of the day having any dietary prescription doled out to the masses is always going to come up short and have a lot of collateral damage. I hope someday in the future there is more emphasis on function over food, that the psychological aspects of food restriction are accounted for, that a myopic view of calories in, calories out no longer exists, that we completely rework the view on what healthy vs. unhealthy fats are, and a lot more. There’s a lot of cleaning up that needs to be done before the ideas embedded into people’s heads regarding the status quo of health and nutrition is undone and the fields of health, nutrition, and physiology can resume moving forward.
If people took the 7 rules of healthy eating from Diet Recovery 2, started minimalist progressive weight training, slept well, were daily active and isolated themselves from all the noise in health and fitness, they would reach their potential.
It’s awesome and sad at the same time that one list of paper would easily cover everything we really need to know about diet, training, supplementation, sleep and activity.
And if you apply all this, you suddenly feel your “fitness” life is empty, because it feels like no effort, except of those brief workouts.
I think what is so different for me is that I’m exercising for the first time without trying to restrict calories to 1200-1500, feel guilty over any amount of sugar or refined grains, or beat the living crap out of myself during a workout. It all sounds so logical, and yet, here I am at 32 trying it for the first time. So, perhaps for the first time in my life I will be able to make exercise a sustainable habit. I signed up for small group training sessions, hoping to get some weightlifting suggestions, especially on form. I don’t know if it’s been all that earth-shattering, but the funny thing is that because I know how to play the game, I’m just blatantly lying about my food intake when asked. I wish I could find some like-minded people in this drained swamp of a Detroit area to work out with. I at least have the sense not to see the Crossfit people. Thank-you for that!
Exercising with adequate calories, adequate carbs, adequate sleep, and with a tolerable volume of exercise is TOTALLY different from trying to do it as part of some self-inflicted boot camp.
I am a cereal destroyer. Any and all kinds. Have been all my 43 years. I am 6 feet tall and never weighed over 170. Haven’t been to a doctor in 23 years.Lately I have been on a rice chex and frosted mini wheats kick.
Love both Rice Chex and Frosted Mini Wheats!
So any clues as to which carbs would be the most helpful in regards to constipation? Anyone have some experience or insight on this? I know a low-residue diet containing mostly highly processed carbs (white rice, white bread) is usually indicated for people with poor digestion but when I research this way of eating I find it often results in constipation for people. Additionally, I’ve read a lot of anecdotal stories of people who have had to eliminate grains in order to cure constipation. But then again I’ve also read that fiber worsens constipation, and have experienced this first hand when I’ve used fiber supplements. I did try the 80-10-10 thing for a bit, it helped at first but then not so much. Plus, there’s the whole low FODMAP camp which would advise against eating a substantial amount of calories from fruit. At this point I’ve tried almost every type of diet but haven’t really been able to stick to anything long term because it’s either too restrictive or causes other problems. So yea… just wondering what people on this forum have experienced with low-fiber, high-fiber, and fruit in regards to constipation.
My own experience is that a high carb diet promotes motility, and I think highly processed carbs are fine for this. The starches will provide a bit of bulk even without fiber (because of resistant starch), and sugar (from fruit or elsewhere) will speed it along. A bit of fat also seems to help, although too much fat will slow things down.
I’ve read that an old-timey medical cure for constipation in kids was a spoonful of white sugar.
Protein will slow my digestion more than anything else.
It depends on the person. I find rice to be constipating and I find berries/whole wheat bread to be good for motility (with jam).
If you count biCARBonate, then I’d say it’s the carb that speeds up the bowels the most. Try a few teaspoons of baking soda in orange juice, or make pancakes and add a little more baking soda, and see what happens.
What worked for me was simply eating *more*. If my bowels get sluggish I take it as an indication that I’m not eating enough (not having the problem much anymore as I seemed to have pegged my minimal calorie needs at about 3,000 a day (I’m a 5’5″ female and pretty active- have a farm and milk goats and a cow and I have a large garden- then I do hoofcare part time- on hoofcare days I may approach 4,000 calories). I can’t believe how stupid simple a fix it was- and I couldn’t have dreamed of a happier one!
Hi, Matt! I became interested in Resistant Starch a few years back when you did a video on it. Since then, however, interest waned and not much is ever said about RS.
Things are a-changin’! There are now two products on the market for RS: Hi-Maize Corn Starch and Generation UCan SuperStarch. Some folks have taken to using plain old potato starch, too, claiming it’s even better than the Hi-Maize or SuperStarch.
This guy wrote about it last week, and has tons of good studies. http://freetheanimal.com/2013/04/resistant-assimilation-resistance.html
Could I implore you to dust off your RS books and re-open the case? You were one of the first fans of RS, hate to see you left out!
I second this! Would love to hear more about RS.
I would talk more about it but in real world practice a lot of people do much better when they don’t throw a bunch of fermentable food into their slow-moving bowels. I hate to blindly glorify something and convince someone who would do better on juice and ice cream to run for beans and cold taters.
taters don’t seem to ferment with me, and this may be due to solanine content.
when i accidentally ate part of a green potato, of course i felt sick, but it also kicked out tumors with thick plant-like roots (likely mold/yeast). low levels of solanine in regular potatoes may also do this gradually, since it is antifungal.
but corn based starch may be contaminated with mold, which could cause the body to need excessive levels of niacin.
Okay, this is where I think I am having problems! I have been low-carb/paleo/gaps for the last 12 years and I have forgotten how to eat carbs, even bread doesn’t really appeal to me. I seem to be able to get them down if I slather them with butter or cream, but then my fats are too high. And after restricting calories they are so bulky that I hardly ever get them over 200g a day, and that was a fight! Any suggestions for tasty carbs without so much fat?
BTW, love that Def Leppard song!
Raisin bread, dates, and juice.
Alright, more juice and dried fruit on the menu. Thanks!
Bananas might help you transition back to starches. They’re tasty and easy to digest because of the sugar, but they also provide a decent amount of starch, which might help “awaken” the starch enzyme production in your small intestine.
I agree, bananas are often easier to digest for me than most other things.
Thanks, David, I’ll try that as well!
Hi Matt!
I appreciate you sharing your experiences and insights. I’m not over or under weight and have been eating as outlined in Danny Roddy’s books and developed gout. After much research, I suspected fructose and so cut out fruit and the gout went away. Is this something you’ve seen from others? Tubers seem better than fruit but they really put the weight on. Thoughts?
Thanks!
Anyone else follow Ido Portal on youtube/facebook? He claims to eat mostly protein muscle meat, and train up to 8 hours a day. He’s a world class acrobat and hand balancer, but his diet just doesn’t make sense. His body comp is great, muscular with low bodyfat, but I thin either he sneaks carbs or supplements with testosterone (which might explain in part his aggressive, angry tirade posts on fb).
I just don’t think its possible to train like that and have good condition and overall health while in ketosis. I doubt ANY olympic athletes train while in ketosis. Its just not the way to eat to win.
Hey Matt,
Just been adding more carbs into my diet and watching my temperature going up slowly from 95 to around 97.5 now. Type one diabetes for 25 years, so not easy, but I am so tired of all the diets – I might even give you a run for your money in the diet trials I’ve been through in the past 7 years! 80-10-10, vegetarianism, veganism, paleo, high protein, low protein, GAPS, PHD, Gabriel Cousens, Mercola…..list goes on and on and on! All good learning.
I read in your diabetes book that Bernstein’s program is good for type one diabetes control, but with cold feet and hands all the time and a heap of other ‘metabolism is kaput symptoms’, I decided more injected insulin and carbs is probably a better option overall.
Just wondering if you’ve ever worked with anyone with type one diabetes before and any findings you may have had in relations to macronutrient intake?
I suspect you’re right about more carbs and more insulin. From a strictly blood sugar control vantage point Bernstein’s program is great. But that’s too narrow of a focus. A more comprehensive analysis of whole body function is needed to make dietary decisions, insulin dosing, etc.
Hi Claire. I’m a type 1, too. I’ve done Bernstein and have had all of the horrible symptoms that accompany low carb diets for normal folks. I do way better with lots of carbs. The necessary increase in insulin, of course, creates a very real danger of a serious insulin reaction (I’ve had a few trips to the ER), but extra diligence and always having a bag of candy in my pocket seem to do the trick.
I had to laugh when reading your diet history. Hit pretty close to home. I’ve been a human guinea pig for different diets for over 20 years. It’s been such a pleasant relief
to just eat the food for the last 6 months our so!
Hi Brandon,
Wow, it was so great to read your message this afternoon, thanks for sharing how higher carbs is working for you too. I would really love to know more about your experiments, Brandon.
I totally hear you on the dietary experiments! Type one can be a veritable minefield . . .
Too much high GI ‘stuff’ and we need to give Ricky Branson a call to book our flight on Virgin Galactic and accompany our blood sugars on their intergalactic orbit. Who knew sugar could give us such a satiating high!
Too many starchy carbs and we’re shooting up just a little too much for comfort. We know it’s becoming a problem when people start asking ‘What’s really in that syringe of yours?’
Too much fat seems to make insulin less effective – but damn it, we need some fat because the Vitamins can’t work without them. But Fuhrman says no. But Sisson says yes. But Dr Graham says no. But PHD says yes! But, but, but! Let’s face it, with no fat all day we’re all about the B’s when we get home from work. ‘B’locks of cheese. ‘B’ars of chocolate and just generally eating for the entire ‘B’ritish Isles. Ahem. And Brazil, Bali, Bangladesh, Belarus . . . . .
Yes. We can and will unconsciously devour the entire bar of ‘85%-healthy-almost-Paleo – but depends what Paleolithic camp you’re in, because it may contain too many phytates, but we’re not yet sure’ Dark Chocolate (phew!), on returning home from work IF you tell us to restrict the damn saturated, mono-unsaturated, polyun-wotsits, or whatever darn hydrogen ratio you wanna call it, ANYMORE. Damn it.
We tried the LFRV diet and yes, fruit is tasty, but less so when you have to eat your body-weight in bananas every day. And yeah, our blood sugars might be okay with it . . .so long as we wait at least two hours after eating to test them, exercise a lot in between, limit fat to less than 10% of our calories (think number 9 guys and calculators at the ready!) and promise to eat our greens to slow down their absorption. Oh, and we’ll be hungry pretty much all the time too. But hey, smaller frequent meals are the way to go with diabetes. Apparently.
Low-Fat Veganism/Nutritarianism might be great short-term, but the moment we give into that Primal urge (read: NEED) for something less the color of the Incredible Hulk’ belly button fluff and more the colour of say, chocolate, butter, cheese, heavy cream, full fat yogurt with all the ripest of red cherries on top (mind the fructose there!) and with more calories than our pet rabbit ate for breakfast this morning, our Butt doubles in size overnight. Ahem. And some. ;-)
Too much protein? Well hey, over half of that turns to glucose at some point too, so we have to bolus in between meals (yeah, yet more ‘jacking’ up) for around the 2-hour point when that beautiful ‘gluconeogenesis’ process decides to shake it’s funky ‘thang’, enter our bloodstream without warning and send us on yet another cloud-to-concrete roller-coaster ride.
Exercise. Well, heck. Don’t we have enough to deal with already? That darn blood glucose meter barking numbers at us all day and you want us to move it, shake it and jiggle it too?! I mean seriously? Like that’s gonna help our control somehow. Okay, okay, so it does make the insulin work better. Who cares that I now have to recalculate ALL of my insulin to carb ratios for at least the next 48 hours and yes, I am allowed a sulk at this point. Bottom lips at the ready.
Who would blame us for being tempted to stop eating altogether? But then our metabolism shuts down and yes, we become walking, talking (if we can find the energy) cold-extremetied Zombies, with zero sex drive, zero energy, zero passion or vigour and an under-arm basal temperature that a Polar Bear would happily hop aboard and ride around the Arctic Circle on.
We’re pretty much equipped for a one-way trip to Orthorexia Central from diagnosis. Weighing and restricting. Cab counting. Exchanges. DAFNE, whoever the f**k she is? Reading more and more accounts of what some guru claims is the best shot at a diabetes ‘cure’ or ‘reversal’. Good titles. Best Sellers for sure. Still, we should be thankful they’ve even got the balls to write or talk about type ONE diabetes, because type-two is the easier to handle sibling. Us? They could very well send us into an irreversible coma and heck, ‘Death via Dietary Opinion interpreted as Advice’ is one scary mother of a law suit. So much easier to stick with the simple sister and write about type-two.
Still, there’s only so much low calorie density greens and beans a Gal’ can take. Sometimes we just want the darn Twinkie, trans fats ‘n’ all, and f**k the consequences. Until the next horror story we read about those damn diabetes complications. We get it already. No seriously, stop with the amputation photos because its starting to make me hopping mad and the blind stories, I’ve seen enough of them for a lifetime.
Maybe popping off a bit earlier in life, but enjoying the ride might be a better option after all. If only we could figure out which plan to follow this week . . .
Smile :-)
That’s a twangy post, Claire! I like it :)
I love carbs but I tend have really high sugar levels according to RBTI. I rarely urinate (it’s always pretty yellow) unless I drink a lot of water but doing that makes me bloated, gives me heartburn and makes me freezing cold and dizzy. So I try not to drink that much. Eating usually makes me pretty sleepy. It’s weird i usually really crave whole foods, especially raw but my digestion isn’t really up to such things. Whole foods keep my energy more stable but make me lose weight and give me a fair bit of digestive disturbance. I definitely have a low metabolism and lose weight easily. Would a low metabolism cause chronically high sugar levels? Whenever I have tried to keep my sugar levels down I feel pretty sluggish and lose weight rapidly. Perhaps I just need to eat more and fix my metabolism, digestion, etc. I think after going through treatment for anorexia I got caught in the quasi-recovered state warned about in diet recovery 2. I think I will experiment with just eating a lot more though the digestive upset and energy crashes scares me. Carbs definitely help my sleep, body temp and exercise recovery so they must be doing me good despite causing energy swings. And that can be fixed I expect.
A lot of Crossfitters are on the Paleo bandwagon. They do high intensity exercise almost daily while on a low carb diet. I know a few and have seen them lose weight and gain muscle. I wonder how different their results would be with more carbs (setting aside whether the exercise program is right or good).
In my experience there’s only so long a person can withstand that much intense exercise with so little carbohydrates, regardless of the short-term appearance of success or changes in body composition. In my experience lack of carbs made a huge difference in the intensity level I could sustain, but not necessarily the duration. I could hike all day long on a low-carb diet, I just couldn’t hike quickly or I would run out of gas really fast. This all makes perfect sense of course. Fat fuels low intensity exercise, and carbs fuel higher intensity exercise. With a low glycogen reserve, gas runs out quickly.
Thank you so much yet again for your brilliant and much needed post. I have learned so much from your stories and experiences and knowledge.
For someone who is repairing their metabolism from 4 years of compulsive exercise and exercise induced restriction (on 1800 cals) with working out every day–and now have been cardio workout free for a month….does the same hold true that more carbs are necessary for those people who are repairing their low metabolism’s even if we are not exercising now?? I do not plan on stepping back into cardio at all for at least a few more months from all the damage I have done.
I did develop anorexia althetica through the exercise addiction and a bought of orthorexia (so I also limited my fat intake to around 20 grams a day maybe most days for the last few years) So I do have a history with an eating disorder. But again, that is why I am working on repairing my metabolism now :)
Facts: I have been eating between 2500-3000 cals and 400 carbs for 6 months now, with no results. Once I stopped cardio workouts I began seeing dramatic improvements in energy levels, happiness, and also fatigue, swelling, tiredness and so on — everything you talk about in diet recovery 2.
So, in short, lately, my carb intake has been around 420-450 and I was wondering if the same principles still apply even for those who are not exercising every day (due to trying to recover from an eating disorder induced by exercise). Thanks!
In my experience, what’s most therapeutic for most people is to do the opposite of what they did to get themselves in trouble. Generally-speaking carbs are the star performers when it comes to metabolic rate, and I think you should continue to eat a lot – exercising or not. But in your case avoiding exercise and eating more fat is probably going to bring your body back into balance faster than anything else.
I agree with Matt. From everything you’ve said, Helen, it sounds like your priority needs to be resting and keeping your calorie intake up. Look at what you’ve accomplished in such a short time. You’re staring to restore your body weight, and you’re feeling energetic again. So keep doing what you’re doing!
Helen,
I just want to reiterate what Matt said about eating fats during recovery. Here’s a post i recently ran across from Gwyn Olwen at youreatopia that really emphasizes the importance of fats
http://www.youreatopia.com/faq/specific-recovery-questions/are-fats-saturated-fats-bad.html
I remember when I first started upping my food intake I was craving butter like crazy! What’s strange is that I had never restricted fats, just carbs and calories. I felt like I could eat whole sticks of butter, though I resisted the urge and instead ate lots of guacamole :) I probably should have just eaten the butter.
Thanks Another Kim- I have read that article many times actually because I started this entire thing by finding youreatopia–so I have read about everything there is!
I have seen incredible changes in me lately–more energy, more happiness, better moods and just overall a better mood and better health since stopping working out and eating 3000++ a day.
I average 3000 a day and 400 carbs a day, ad have for around 6 months now.
Yes, there’s such a wealth of info there. It’s scary to think that restricting calories can actually damage your brain! Why don’t they teach this in school? Or maybe they did and my teenage brain was daydreaming during that part of health class…
Anyway, it sounds like you are doing great! I’m a little behind you at only 4 months in but can concur with you that I’m feeling better overall. I have thyroid and adrenal issues that affect my energy levels, but I’m hoping a lot of that will be resolved as part of the healing process.
I am sure you will start to feel better soon too and yes, I really truly believe that your adrenal issues will resolve with metabolism repair :)
and the funny thing is I never restricted carbs, sugar, protein, just fat! Haha so I got maybe 20 grams of fat a day (most likely less) but on the weekends I would eat pretty freely and drink, so I think that is what kept me alive so to speak! haha I needed those weekend fats and junk food that I restricted during the week.
Hey Helen,
Can you give me some insight as to how your body responded to the refeeding while you were exercising versus how it responded when you stopped exercising in terms of weight?
I never restricted fat grams, carbs, protein or anything like that.. But I, too, have been on kind of this 1,800 calorie + cardio + weekend splurge kick for awhile.. So I’m kind of curious!
Hey Omnomnom,
I did the 1800 cal+cardio+ weekend splurge kick for 4 years, and thats what led me here, to this dilemma I got myself into–so I urge you to get out of it by restoring your metabolism as fast as you can!
Well, when I upped my calories to 3000 but continued exercise, I just felt lethargic, tired, my body was swollen (especially normal for those who used exercise as a restriction tool as many do), but, I had water retention in my muscles (which is totally normal) BUT nothing was getting better, nothing. My sleep never improved, my hands and feet stayed freezing and cold, I was always cold, I was always tired, sore, I had horrible mood swings, I was always getting sick with colds, the flu and anything because my immune system was so broken down and I still constantly thought about food all the time (calorie counting, worrying about nutrients etc, and it still had control over my brain and all my thoughts). My weight rose about 5-7 pounds guesstimating as I dont weight myself.
It only took 2 weeks after I stopped my cardio that I saw immense improvements! I have SO MUCH ENERGY its scary! I am so happy! My sleep has improved so much and I now feel rested when I wake up instead of like a zombie, I feel warm again! My hands and toes are not as cold as before (still improving here), my thoughts dont revolve around food anymore which is the most wonderful thing this has given me, my mind clarity back again. My digestive system is working so much better and I can eat anything without gut/digestion issues now because there is enough food in my stomach so it doesnt have to store food in the gut for so long (which is what happens with a low metabolism). My weight has probably gone up a few pounds, but I dont weight myself. All I know is I look TONS better–I look healthy finally. I am starting to see changes in my body and I am so happy. My clothes still fit the same (although a bit tighter, but thats totally okay).
Hope that helped!
Restoring my metabolism by not exercising has been the best thing I could have chosen to do for my body and my health!
Thank you for getting back to me, Helen, and for sharing your experiences!!
Yeah, I’m really looking to dig myself out of this hole so to speak. I had been pretty much maintaining on 1800 plus splurges, because my splurges really turned into binges.. Which turned into MORE splurge/binges.. And yeah, I gained enough without really doing anything for myself health-wise. So I figured if I’m gaining anyway, why not do it the right way? Haha!
Your gain is really minimal…. It’s encouraging, but I fear that I’m going to blow up like a Macy’s Day Balloon!
I have gained weight over time on sub-optimal calories and exercise….so I think that may be why. Nontheless, your body needs the food! And you need to eat! And do lots of it–dont worry about how you may look–you need to worry about how you are going to FEEL! :)
Do you mean that you gained weight occasionally during your four year sub-optimal eating?? That seems pretty crazy considering it seems like your rate of gain is rather minimal in comparison to some others that I’ve talked to!
Do you have any tips as far as things that helped you or any particular guidelines that you followed? Is there any particular things that you followed/stuck to??
As my name suggests.. I fully intend to start nommin’ regardless. ;) I’m WAYYY too young to have the digestion and energy of a grannie!
My lowest weight ever was around 105 and I gained weight up to around 120-125 where I have stuck to around the last 3 years. I ate 1800 during that time and worked out every day.
Now, I eat 3000 a day, dont work out, and am doing better than I have in years.
I am sticking to not working out, eating 3000 a day (which is the average we should be getting anyway, between 2500-3000) has given me the best and most noticeable results. :)
And by sub-optimal intake, I mean by that 1800 calories during the week with exercise every day, and then more on the weekends due to drinking and junk food that I allowed oon the weekend (so I probably averaged more like 2800 on weekends)
It’s rather crazy how alike our situations are/were! My lowest weight was 108, and I have since gained weight to about 118-125. When it didn’t turn out in a balls-to-the-wall binge, my splurge days were about the same. On top of my heath issues, it’s really the social factors and mentality around food that is prompting my re-feeding.. Your experience has been very helpful and encouraging with how much better you feel!
So you’ve gained a very minimal weight on 2500-3000 above the 120-125 range, or that’s currently where you sit now?
125-130 is about where I am now (guess) because I only go by how I feel. I can tell you though that I suffered a lot from social factors, and my horrible thoughts that were controlled by food. All my thoughts revolved around food, when I would eat, when I would work out, planning all my meals, looking up calories online, reading and becoming obsessed with diet blogs and nutrition magazine…you get the idea I am sure.
But, now that I have stopped working out on top of my lifestyle I have seen IMMENSE changes. Again, like I said I can think clearly, I dont obsess about food, I havnt read a fitness/food magazine in months and I dont want to, I have the energy and want to go out with friends again, I have so much energy and enthusiasm for life again it’s truly unbelievable.
I can only imagine things will continue progressing for me as long as I continue doing things the way I am now–which I 100% plan on going. Giving up cardio has been the best decision I could have possibly have made for myself and my life.
Yep, I know exactly what you mean! Mainly, because I’m right here, now. Believe it or not, the few day eat-fest I had not only packed on the pounds, but offered some clarity.. Who knew eating enough could make you feel better! I realized that I pissed away my college existence with this stuff.. I’m graduating with few meaningful relationships. And.. Crap. I don’t blame them. It took getting into a good frame of mind to realize how.. Not enjoyable I am to be around.
I hope that I can eventually say the same thing as you, and I’m sorry if I asked too many weight-related questions. I’ve had poor eating habits for a long, long time and I fear the way my weight will react. I just try to keep reminding myself that it’s no use being the ‘skinny’ one if you’re an absolutely miserable person all around.
Oh its okay please dont apologize! I have gone through absolutely EVERYTHING you have described! I have just been eating 3000 for a while now (6 months) so I have no just started with that. But I have just stopped the exercise–and that is really why I finally feel better!
I spent all of college with this horrible illness too- so believe me when I say I know what you are going through! I lost many friendships because of it, lost my health and everything all because of my determination to be “fit” and “healthy” and spend all my time working out…when I should have been free and carefree and not worried about food, etc….
But, I dont want to look back…because I am moving forward! And you are too :)
You’re great, and have definitely offered the encouragement I need to ditch the cardio and eat for awhile. It’s funny that in our quests for fitness and health, we probably became less fit and certainly less healthy.. Ooohh, the irony. Oh well, like you said, no sense in looking in the past when you’re trying to build a better future!
Thanks! Good luck to you, by the way.
Good luck to you too! I know you will do this and get back to being healthy again– as I am working my way there with you. But, I hope you can drop the cardio and continue eating for metabolism repair– just know that things can and WILL get better as long as you continue along with this! I know its true because I am experiencing it right now! And yes, it is sad that we got so sick and unhealthy, by doing what doctors would reccomend “healthy”…another reason the media sucks.
But, not looking back… because all I have learned has made me into a healthier person. I have learned that I can easily consume 2500-3000 every single day and eat 80% carbs….and be JUST FINE and feel better than ever! healthier than ever! more energetic than ever! And I never plan on looking back :)
The guy in this link definitely understands the value of carbohydrates. His weight loss diet consists of unlimited quantities of sugary cereal for breakfast and lunch–and then a sensible dinner and a beer. He’s trying to lose weight, so he uses skim milk on his cereal, but I think 2% or whole milk would work for anyone trying to maintain or gain weight.
http://thecerealdiet.tumblr.com/basics
I’m also interested in this New Yorker who basically lives on candy. This is the way to live!
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/10/28/dining/28Rudn.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0
Haha. That cereal guy is hilarious. Add this one to your sugar files if you haven’t seen it already… http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AdioWBJZ2EA By far the most ridiculous of all examples as his physique is ridiculous and his teeth are absolutely gleaming. He even mentions the middle of the night sugar trick, haha.
Holy shit, that guy’s awesome. He’s an inspiration.
OMG!! Thank you David and Matt for posting these links. The Cereal Diet has me wanting to get a box of those Cocoa Puffs Brownie Crunch cereal! :)
Btw, did you catch the part in the Candy Man vid when the interviewer asks Lamar Odom; “how can you be a top notch athlete and be eating all that sugar”? LOL! Ummm…could it it be the sugars are fueling his intense workouts, practice sessions and playing???
Yeah, imagine how good Odom would be if he ate a ton of vegetables and grassfed beef instead!
http://thecerealdiet.tumblr.com/post/44867355419/cereal-104-publix-shredded-wheat-anyone-who so very true
Ha!
I’ve been trying to up my carbs, and I’m getting a sense of severe breathlessness. And my arms get all tingly. like a panic attack, but without the panic. i just cant breath. Is this normal? Des it go away?
Also, I’m bloated! And things don’t seem to be moving through my gi!
If it’ll get better, I’ll keep going. Anyone have any thoughts or experience?
It could be from a transient rise in insulin with the addition of more carbs – the trouble breathing that is. I had a transient worsening of asthma when I reintroduced carbs after a long-term low-carb diet, but this didn’t last long and is now greatly improved.
Bloating is the norm when reintroducing carbs, but should decrease as bowel transit time improves. If it hasn’t picked up in a few weeks and you’re still having problems you might reconsider your strategy and take a closer look at what you are eating.
Klaire,
I’ve also had trouble with shortness of breath and bloating. To aid digestion, I need to eat fat and sugar with my starches. I can’t just eat the starch by itself, or I feel sick. Sometimes, especially in the morning, I’ll start my meal with something sweet like orange juice, and that will invigorate my appetite enough that I can deal with some bread or something. My digestion seems to work better when my appetite is strong.
I’m not sure about the shortness of breath. For me, I think protein intolerance causes a lot inflammation and autoimmunity, and I’m cutting out meat to see if that helps. Alternately, the initial bloating from the carbs may actually put pressure on your chest cavity, making it harder to breathe for a while after you eat.
That’s what I was thinking too the more I thought about it – that the bloating itself was putting pressure on the lungs and making it more difficult to breathe.
I’ve tried no eating after 6pm for the last couple of days, after having felt really bloated to the point of waking up at night feeling sick and ready to through up. It went away after I spent time in an upright position. So, that led to no dinner. This night I woke up hungry in the middle of the night instead. I prefer this to waking up feeling sick. I had some filmj?lk* and then I continued sleeping.
As for the shortness of breath you know I’ll refer to nose breathing, and to exhaling longer, really squeezing out the stomachs last drop of air. Something that might come in handy is to hold your hand in a fist and breathe into the palm of the fist (makes sense?) to get the resistance. It will let your stomach know where it is.
*http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Filmj%C3%B6lk I make my own: pour milk in a jar, add a few spoons of filmj?lk, cover the jar, leave it in room temperature for a day or two. Continue to save a few spoonfuls of filmj?lk to the next batch.
*in through nose, out through mouth into fist
Hey Matt,
Do you think it would be a worthwhile experiment for me to drop my fat intake and increase carbs? Right now my fat intake is pretty high. I’m slathering butter on my morning toast (usually 3 slices), drinking about 3-4 glasses of whole raw milk a day, having full fat yogurt with meals (wife cooks Indian a lot, so yogurt is required) along with however much rice, lentils, meats, veggies, etc that I want to eat.
I went on a nightly ice cream kick for a while too. Kind of a lot of fat per day. It felt good, but I need to reign in the bodyfat and send my body some “you can let that gut go” signals.
I figure I can cut the milk down to 1 glass per day, have ice cream 1-2 times per week, switch to low fat yogurt and replace those calories with glorious carbs.
You’ve seen every diet known to mankind, and even though this is more of a macronutrient re-partition, I will place high value on any advice you can give.
The physiology of macronutrients has always led athletes and bodybuilders and such to automatically displace some fat in pursuit of getting the protein and carbohydrates required for optimal muscle growth and glycogen restoration. I think as discussed in an old post called Maximum Nutrient Partitioning that protein’s role in this is somewhat overstated, and that higher ratios of carbs to protein might be superior. I think you will find that there is a point in your fat intake that draws a line between weight loss and weight maintenance, and that you feel surprisingly warm and awesome at that point. Just slowly move in that direction and see if you find that point.
Thanks Matt. I started the shift with this morning’s breakfast, and noticed more energy in the form of fidgeting and wanting to move around instead of sitting at the computer and working.
Thank you for this informative post! I would appreciate very, very much if you could provide further posts that are more about “prevention” (for the metabolically healthy) than repair. I am a distance runner (1500m-5000m, no marathon training but periodically I do get in some miles) but I also strength train. I am easing into “serious” training after the birth of my second child and having read so much about metabolism on your website I would like to do everything right from the beginning, I definitely made some mistakes with overexercising/undereating (not to a high degree) when I trained hard before but I think I undid the damage while pregnant. I am aware that competetive exercise is never really healthy but I would love to learn how athletes can stay as metabolically healthy as possible, especially those for whom weight/relatively low body fat matters…
Thank you
Hi Matt!!! I’m so happy reading your articles because I can see that low-carb diet does’t work for athletes. I’ve been low-carb/paleo during 3 years but it was impossible to run comfortable. I thought that I was doing well being low-carb but today I know that I was completely wrong!!! I started adding carbs 2 months ago and I feel really nice. I’ve not started running yet but I hope that in few weeks I will be running 4-5 miles at least.
Breakfast time is the most difficult for me, I don’t know what to eat before running. I need your help. What do you think about some salted orange juice, plain white bread or cookies and coffee?It’s Ok???
Thank you for everything!!! You can’t imagine how many people you are helping!!!
Nice to meet you MATT!!!
The best run I’ve ever had in my life was after drinking a whole quart of juice right before it. Granted, I was very low-carb at the time so that run compared to other runs was remarkably easier. Whatever you have before should be very carby and light on the stomach.
Thank you Matt!!! I will start my day having a orange juice, with sodium bicarbonate and a pinch of salt and some easily digestible carb, like plain bread or breakfast cereals! I will tell you how is going my performance and feelings during my running days. I think that some days pancakes would be really nice. How do you cook your pancakes Matt? How many ingredients? I think that they could help me for breakfast before running. Do you?
Great info, I would say though that I think cassava/tapioca roots might be a better choice than potatoes from a carbohydrate concentration standpoint. The potato stands at 79 grams of water and 77 kcalories per 100 grams while cassava root stands at 59,7 grams of water and 160 kcal (!) per 100 grams.
Also a question about juice. I get problems with blood sugar, fatigue, brainfog etc when I eat too much high-fiber high-water foods in one sitting. However orange juice and goat milk doesn’t seem to cause this problem. So I take it excess fluid is mostly a problem when it is bound up in excess fiber in a calorie/carbohydrate deficit context?
I cook up cassava/yucca from time to time. Hard to eat though. It’s almost too dense! Perhaps the bloating from a big high fiber load plays a role in the brain fog and stuff whereas the liquids by themselves go down easy without causing that irritation? I dunno. Maybe sometime I should do a big calorie/water chart of common foods.
Good point. I’m experimenting with this myself right now. I seem to feel a lot better on a fluor-based diet, however all the fibers they put into gluten-free breads screw up my gut, sigh, I guess I should just try to fry the flour in butter and eat it straight up, seems a little yuck though.
Yucca does feel somewhat heavy to eat, I do enjoy the taste though which makes it more palatable. Boiled potatos are very watery to me, even if I enjoy the taste. I guess you could deep-fry them to draw out some liquid but that would increase the fat content too much (which would displace carbohydrates). Sigh, I wish I were a small person so I wouldn’t have to eat so much hehe
Starch and fat are a good combination. This goes back to matt’s eat for heat by frying potatoes in coconut oil. I like making tostones (fried, unripe platains in coconut oil with salt) as a fast, and cheap snack.
I wonder what would happen on the Potatoe Diet if more saturated fat was added?
Hey, you stole my name (or maybe I stole yours…). If you’ve been posting here a while I’ll be happy to add an initial or something.
Actually, can anyone share how they add a photo to their name?
I only post every once and a while so i will change my name.
Thanks, man. In reply to your comment, I think some fat with the potato diet would make it much more palatable. I couldn’t imagine eating the potatoes without some oil, butter, or milk (with plenty of salt, of course).
In fact, the Irish used to live on a diet that was basically potatoes, oats, and milk. That combination provides all the nutrients you need to thrive, and it is about as cheap as you can get. The oats are only necessary for one nutrient, I think.
Eating that way doesn’t sound half bad either–at least for a little while. Oats with milk and sugar are great, and the same is true of potatoes with a bit of butter and sour cream (or mashed in milk). Maybe this summer I’ll try something like this and see how cheaply I can live for a week or so.
“The oats are only necessary for one nutrient, I think.”
David,
What would that one nutrient be?
Molybdenum. However, I don’t have a good source off hand. It is true that potatoes that are grown in poor soil may be deficient in this mineral, and it’s much more abundant in cereals like oats. More milk (or some meat, or probably a hundred other things) would probably take care of the deficiency too.
Probably any monodiet (or near monodiet) will create deficiencies down the road, even if it’s perfectly healthy for a few months. But potatoes, milk, and oats did seem to work for Irish–not that it was by choice.
Thank you David.
The context you drink OJ and milk in is probably important though. Since proteins typically have 60-70% water much like our own tissues, and pure dietary fat by nature has 0% water content, that leaves starch/sugar which ranges from 2-4% water content in potato chips and cereal, white bread 35%, white rice 68%, potato 79%, to the other end of the spectrum tomatoes, cucumbers and zucchini at 94-96% water.
So if you drink more OJ/Milk with low water foods such as white bread and chips it’s not a problem, while it becomes a problem if you drink the same amount with foods such as white rice and potatoes. Sorry if I’m being nerdy about this but I’m recovering from adrenal fatigue and have noticed how much this hydration issue affects my energy levels and moods.
Matt, could you give me some advice on some tweaks to try in regards to optimizing the circadian rythm? I don’t know my temp but my hands and feet are really nice and warm. My problem is more to do with energy and sleep. I ususally get an energy dip in the afternoon after lunch and then again in the early evening. Once I go to bed at around 10-10.30 pm I usually go to sleep pretty fast but if I’m later to bed it takes longer to go too sleep with thoughts running through my head. Then I usually wake up at around 4 in the morning and have some trouble getting back to sleep. A few months ago I usually had to get up and pee but that has changed and now I just lay awake for up to an hour before going back to sleep. I don’t feel stressed but the brain is definitely revved up jumping from one thought to the next. Some of the thoughts are so weird I actually think I’m sleeping but it’s not a peaceful sleep so I don’t feel rested enough when I have to get up at 6.30.
I’ve bought your two recent books and I have tried eating more proteins and fats before bedtime and I’ve tried more carbs and sugar but I would love to have some tips what way to go and also how persistent I should be before doing changes again.
Hey Matt this situation applies to me too – would love to see a response
Matt,
I was wondering with all the talk about high-carb/low-fat way of eating, where does your Halfass drink fit in? Since that one drink alone can provide one with massive amounts of fat grams for the day, should we start dinking “Slimasses” (skim milk & molasses)? I would assume that drink will still work as far as getting extra minerals in your diet, just not sure of the taste though.
I ate lots of cereal growing up as my grandparents worked for a major cereal company. I had lots of SAD food but also lots of homegrown farm food. When I was 17 I developed Celiac Disease with constant diarrhea. No one else in my family has this, although older ones do have weight problems, arthritis, and skin problems. We did eat margarine for some years growing up, so I blame the inflammation on that. When I was paleo I thought it was high carb junk food that caused it. At the moment I’m suffering from a yeast infection of the gut and all I can eat is white rice and meat. Even something in potatoes irritates me. My temp is up to 97.8 but its hard to get it up more when I can’t eat veg, fruit, potatoes, etc. Rice is so filling!
Am I the only person who has a diminished desire for carbs after exercise? It’s annoying! In fact, my appetite in general decreases after exercise (although I can tell that my body needs food – it’s just not so enjoyable). Is that due to increased stress hormones? Any tips on overcoming this small issue?
I am an athlete in need of a lot of calories but I hate eating lots of small meals a day, so I eat 3 big meals. I currently eat about 250 grams of carbs, and I can’t seem to handle that load split into three meals. Do you think it is because I add way too much added fat? I usually pour about 4 tablespoons of fat to my starches. I know it sounds like a lot but I don’t think I could really handle any more carbs than what I am currently consuming. I have been trying to bulk for a year but I can’t get enough calories. Refined sources such as white rice, and juice give me acne.
Your body needs many more carbs, especially if you are active. That is a fact. 250 is not nearly enough to bulk-let alone it is not enough to support daily functions really. I do not work out with cardio at all and eat 400 grams at least every day.
Your body is likely not used to the amount of carbs–therefore that is the reason for the breakouts- it happened to me too, but the more I ate (calorie wise) the acne did seem to get better after a month or so of continued calorie levels above 3000.
Do all your carbs come from whole foods?
No, not at all. It doesnt necessarily matter the type of carbs you eat–just as long as you are getting enough. And 250 grams is more thank likely not enough, as I am a 5’6 female 125 pounds eating 400 grams a day.
I do eat a lot of fiber (close to 40-50 grams a day) and a lot of oatmeal and vegetables and fruits to make up a good amount of my carbs, although A LOT of my intake comes from pretzels, chips, bread (I eat 3-4 sandwiches and bagels a day), granola bars and cereal. So, no all of my carbs are certainly not whole foods, but they dont need to be either.
I am also restoring my metabolism from 4 years of over exercise and low body weight, which resulted in a low metabolism, barely any body fat and non functioning body functions, and low temps.
Your history sounds very much like mine. Time to starch up.
@Helen….wow,ive never been a csl.counter b4fore but if im correct carb&proteine are both 5cals per gram and fat 9cal per gram rigth? As you eat 400grams of carbs theres barely room left for proteine&fat….hoe can you possibly do this? And dont you exercise at all anymore?
For those who have trouble with protein – have you considered the problem may be histamine? Meat and fish in particular are high in histamine.
I don’t think fresh meat is very high in histamine, as it hasn’t been broken down from histidine yet, as in cured meat, aged cheese or fish/shellfish since those are adapted to low temperatures they spoil fast and form histamine
What about those of us who don’t want to exercise hard or a lot? I think the most carbs I’ve eaten recently is 200-300, and I had to eat like a horse to get that amount.
15 years later, I remain enchanted with the idea that we don’t have to exercise; it is the main reason I reduced carbs:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4tMfLN500TM
Ugh, I can’t take it anymore.
This amazes me because I have no idea how I could possibly eat less than 350 grams of cabs a day lol
and I dont do cardio every day anymore because I need to restore metabolism.
I would love to see a debate/panel discussion with Matt and Paul Jaminet. I’ve been skimming the PHD book after reading Diet Recovery 2 and have found overlap as well as steep contrasts. His carbohydrate recommendations are similar to this post and the explanation of polyunsaturated fat dangers mirrors a lot of what I’ve read here. The idea of perfect anything does annoy me as does a one size fits all diet. His lack of 80’s pop culture references is also troubling.
I am thinking of inviting Paul to be a regular contributor to the site, among several others.
How do you feel about Paul leaning more towards fat than starch? Does his research prove that fat is a better energy source?
I don’t like it. And no.
It would be cool if you could do some Perfect Health Diet debunking. Nothing against Paul, I think his diet is great.
Nah. I think Paul is a smart dude, smart enough to continue to improve his “diet,” adding greater flexibility, and also one day realizing that glucose is better than fat.
Well I’m totally freaking out and hating myself for throwing myself into shitholes everytime bc of my own ‘food/exercise/disordered eating and fatgain issues”. Today I,by my own lethargicness&sometimes when feeling ‘too good’ and my own wrong doings,I gave into eating an entire organic Speltflourcake,although it did contain cane sugar and no PUFA only butter,it did contain Speltflour,Cornstarch and guargum or locust bean can’t remember anymore. I shouldve taken notice that my metabolism actually seemed to be transitioning bc I didnt seem to get that warm&happy feeling but I liked “the caky texture”anymore like I used to. I even probably couldve better opted for the Rice porridge instead,although that doesn’t make me really warm anymore either. I wonder if a Peatish diet of simple sugars makes you resistant to starchI dont know what heats me up&makes me feel good anymore these days,maybe I should go live off Coconutfoods and maybe some goats dairy for a while. I read the fatcomposition of goatdairy contains more MCT’s and actually resembles mother’s milk?
Thinking of coconutproducts&foods only increases my longing for wanting to escape to a sunny place near a beach learn how to surf,skate,have a fun care&issuefree life,not having to deal with anything or anyone anymore
If only I had a big bag of money or someone to offer me a job there. The scary thing is actually that coming week I’m getting a chance at a workplacement for 3months,with possibillity of a paid job&schooling program,as a road-maker/paviour and I really need a paid job and be up to the task,especially bc I’ve got many disadvantages already working against me such as my age,inexperience and my gender as a female. I read about people here eating at least 3000cals daily,but as much as I like to believe it I’ve come to realise that it’s more about nutrient/mineral&vitamin balance&uptake than just downing whatever…..
The cake actually made me feel calmer but I guess not in a good way,but this ‘calmness’ and wanting to sit down and do nothing/just sit on couch and watch tv reminds me too much of my past,which in hindsigth only had the positive point of ‘still being naive regarding foods and all other stuff”. Knowledge is such a double edged sword……
Not only do I hate myself for going round in this shitshow carousel and not being able to eat&act/feel normal,but I’m also so scared I’ve totally undone my work again as it seemed I finally somehow was building up my mineral and especially iron/hemoglobin and elevated liverenzymes level and unburdening the liver some more and my edema seemed to be reducing somewhat……
Maybe I should try eating a raw carrot tomorrow,in hope that’ll literally take the shit out of the body.
Funnily today I heard someone talking about the fact that people who eat all organic don’t seem to be able to gain weigth as in fatgain. I find that really hard to believe bc that would mean you cold eat copious amounts of calories/foods everyday….
I d wonder if the body,when eating purely sat.fats,get rids of excess fat through stools instead of storing it as bodyfat?
I’d like to read the ‘I didnt quit sugar”Book,especially also recipe book,but can’t afford it. Anyone have it and care to share it?
I really admire all your strength of eating 3000cals a day at least. I keep on going. Round in my shitshow.
I was wondering if there is a substitute for rice and tapiocapearls as i like porridge,something sticky in it.
Matt, what are your thoughts about food combining? I’m guessing you don’t support it, and I’d really appreciate hearing why because that is something the “health” community preaches that still sometimes makes me feel like I’m doing something wrong by eating meat and potatoes together… I’d really appreciate your perspective. Thank you!
Matt is a HUGE advocate of food combining. The more foods you combined at your meals, the better!
The reasoning is, you don’t want to coddle (or induce) poor adaptability. Healthy people can and do consume all sorts of foods in the same sitting, and your goal is to have that capacity, not cater to an overly delicate tummy.
He wrote about the benefits of testing your digestive limits here: http://180degreehealth.com/2013/01/healthy-stress-health-benefits-of-acute-stress
Hi Matt et al,
New to the site … and a little obsessed! At first glance, your “big theory” of metabolism makes tremendous sense to me. A few months ago, my digestion went “on strike” — constant heartburn. I had never before had heartburn in my life. My appetite also went from “hearty” to “nonexistent.” Reading here and elsewhere, I am putting the pieces together to conclude that it was a kind of metabolic shut-down primarily caused by overexercising (attempting to rehab an injury, so inflammation at play, too), and abetted by being “too busy to eat” plus lots of work and personal stress.
I’m glad I found you, because otherwise I’d still be beating myself up for having enjoyed milkshakes (casein!) and sandwiches (gluten!) with impunity for my *entire life previous* before this episode. Not to say my previous “diet” was optimal, far from it — like I say, too little food overall, too little nutrition specifically, too many skipped meals. But if you go on the internet, it’s so much avoid, avoid, restrict, restrict, etc., whether its individual foods or whole food categories. And it seems like everybody’s eating a “protocol”! WTF.
I’m almost better, and slowly but surely working up to my previous calorie load and activity level. Really appreciate the perspective here. But … I think this whole scary episode — and my search for solutions and answers — has caused me to be too obsessed with health! Especially as found on the internets. I long to go back to when my reserves of “Fukitol” were topped off.
Any suggestions for raising Fukitol levels when my digestion isn’t yet strong enough to overfeed?
Ok, so how many carbs, fat and protein for someone who is not super active?My weight is 52 kg, and I want put on wight more, I am a little bit underweight Any advices?
Thank you,
I would just eat food the way it tastes best to you and let the macros fall where they may.
Is there someone here who works in construction,preferrably roadmaking bussiness? and if so what you eat in general…cals,food/meals? (do you also workout or play sports in your sparetime?)
Apart from that are there Ray Peat guideline kinda eaters here who also recognise this and maybe have a solution for it? I can’t eat many fruits,especially when higher in free fructose,so I must stick to pure sucrose sources and I also never liked oranges so I dont drink OJ. However I sometimes get such a hollow feeling,that I’m craving something really firm/dense or fibrous to ‘fill me up” and when I do and cave in to the wrong stuff I get really thirsty and then it feels as if i have this huge brick in my stomach. Also bc a lot of my meals are kinda watery,I find that I must put on so much salt in order to get warm that its not even tasteful anymore….
Hi Matt, so I followed the anti wheat cardiologist for almost a year (lost 50 pounds) and ended up with pretty severe anxiety and insomnia. Feb 10th was the height of when it all went wrong. I was left wondering why I hadn’t listened to you months ago (or Stephanie Rupert) but I cut myself some slack knowing that I was just riding the high of my stress hormones and feeling too good to think anything this bad could happen. I did reach out to Paul Jaminet at the time who has been very gracious in providing guidance on regaining health. I brought back starch and fruit. His suggestion was 600 starch calories a day. I started to see some mood/sleep improvement but after revisiting your posts I upped total intake about a week ago. Yesterday I hit 98.6 for the first time in many months. My temps were gradually coming up with the added starch but I think upping total calories may have helped. Paul tells me healing takes time … that sucks. Wondering if you (or anyone reading) have any insight on how long it might take restful sleep to return? I can usually fall asleep now but have trouble staying asleep (even having a salty sweet snack before bed and keeping a sugar/salt mixture by my bed). The “I Didn’t Quit Sugar” girls told me it takes time too. Any advice on speeding up the recovery? Would one of your books provide these answers? Diet Recovery 2 or Eat for Heat?
Awesome post Matt- thank you, I really needed to hear it! For a (moderate) endurance athlete who also is really trying to put on significant muscle and get stronger, would you skew the macronutrient percentages any differently?
Also, in my post workout meals, they are usually a shake (milk, protein powder, and fruit.) This is probably not enough carbs–should I vary the carb sources, or is it ok that most of carbs come from fruit? So should I add a second banana or have a bowl or cereal too? Would love your thoughts– thanks man!
Seriously matt, skim milk? Come on man, youre making dean ornish smile but seriously…
:p
I’m not 100% paleo but I do think their ideas provide a useful lens to see dietary advice through; how can you reconcile the recommendation of over 500 carbs per day with what can be found in nature, especially northern latitudes?