By Matt Stone
Recently I received a couple requests to write something up on how to protect one’s metabolic health as an endurance athlete. It’s an interesting question, as the adaptations the human body undergoes to better?perform endurance exercise are in exact opposition with the metabolic objectives of this site (discussed in greater detail in THIS POST?and others).
To be a successful endurance athlete and experience big breakthroughs in performance, it requires a reduced heart rate (so?you can go faster at lower heart rates and sustain an elevated heart rate for longer periods), a reduced body temperature (so you can exercise for hours without?your body temperature going too high), reduced muscle and bone mass (lighter load’to carry?mile after mile – also less?wear and tear), and a reduction in energy allocated to other functions (such as sex, immunity, wound healing, blood circulation, and so forth).
No you can’t have it all. You’ll never see’someone wake up and win a powerlifting competition, have a snack, and then go and win a marathon later that day.?They are’two totally different types of skills, and are the result of two totally different types of physical adaptations to?a training stimulus.
Having said that,?most, myself included, would like to believe that there is a happy middle ground where your endurance performance goes up and your metabolic?rate, while downregulating itself to compensate somewhat for the task, does so with minimal negative symptoms (such as chronic coldness, infertility, osteopenia, hair loss, sarcopenia/muscle wasting, and so on). And there probably is. It involves eating unfathomable amounts of calories and carbohydrates.
Yesterday I asked?CJ of www.couch2ultra.com – former low-carber and Paleophile, if he could’share some of his insights as he is one of the?only endurance athletes I’m aware of that is very metabolism-conscious. Here is what he had to share, and a recent photo as he prepares for the?upcoming Kona Marathon on June 23rd (I think that’s what he’s running in next).
“Yes I eat between 700-1,500 [grams of] carbs per day. I average probably around 1,000, but would eat more if I had enough time to do so. Just for kicks after you tweeted me this morning, I decided to get a fasting (about 10 hours) blood glucose reading. 92 mg/dL immediately upon getting out of bed. Guess I haven’t gotten the beetus after doing this for 3 years now ;) My dinner was maybe 350g carbs mostly from bananas and non-fat milk.
The last time I checked my BG was a few months ago after like a 10 banana smoothie with a 1/2 cup of brown sugar. 90 minutes post smoothie I believe the reading was 78 mg/dL. My body must have released too much of that pesky insulin in anticipation of a 15 banana smoothie ;) Insulin release does happen pre-ingestion. I have tested this as well, but that’s a whole other topic.
So, I was so effective at speeding my metabolism, that I actually got too hot. So, here’s the thing… I’m an endurance athlete. Admittedly I’m not a chronic temp checker, but most of the morning checks I did do were somewhere around 97.5. Yes I know that’s still low, but I live in Kona, Hawaii brah. It’s hot here, and I was always a ball of sweat. I sleep with nothing (or at the most 1 sheet), and am still sweaty. I also raised my resting heart rate from around 54bpm to always over 70bpm, and if I even thought about so much as walking, it went to 80-100. My max heart rate seemed to increase in step. I saw it hit as high as 219 during workouts.
Eating for metabolism did affect performance and weight. I did get stronger and did gain weight. Roughly 20lbs. The high heart rate and hot body had me feeling a little on the fatigued side during exercise, despite a lower training load.
While trying to raise my heart rate and’temps, I ate a lot of semi-processed sugars like cane/brown sugar, molasses and honey. More coconut oil. Haagen Dazs was a love, and I also did more starches. Corn masa for baking, sweet potatoes, rice, cooked bananas, and even daily footlongs from Subway with cookies and soda. I knew starches would put weight on me, because starches always do. Didn’t much care. I knew the heavy cals would pack on some strong beef too :)
Race time…. I had a couple 1/2 Ironman races on the horizon, so I had to make some changes. I needed my body to run cooler (because the races are in 100+ degree temps) and I also needed my heart to come down so I don’t burn up so quickly. The exercise already increases my metabolic rate and I wasn’t going to stop doing the workouts, so I had to go back to what I know.
Veggies and fruit. Anyone who knows me, already knows I preach the superiority of fruit over starch for energy. They don’t even compare as far as I’m concerned. But the switch to only fruit based carbs weren’t pulling the heart or temps back down. Enter veggies. More specifically uncooked greens. Three benefits to these… they’re anti-thyroid (bringing it back to normal LOL), they lower the glycemic load of the fruits even lower (burning fat like a blowtorch), and energy increases. I suspect that since I blend most of the greens into oblivion with a Vitamix, my gut may be able to produce butyric acid (short chain fats) for energy not unlike our gorilla buddies who have longer digestive tracks. Of course I’ve not looked into this at all, it just seemed like something plausible I cooked up in my pea brain.
Anyway, in just a matter of a few months, this food palette shift has dropped my HR back down into the high 50s. I’m breaking PBs at will, not sweating like a hog, still using only one sheet, and easily continuing to lean up eating as much fruits and veggies as I can :) The 20lbs came off and still falling. I’m not vegan or anything. I still eat eggs, gelatin, a little seafood, and some dairy. I’m actually going to have to start increasing my fats again and drinking a gallon of milk every day probably starting next month so I don’t whittle away to a toothpick.
So, I guess in summary… A year of face stuffing did what I wanted it to, but was too effective. The result isn’t a perfect match for my lifestyle and environment. I’m keeping my “Eating for Heat” in moderation, like killing a jumbo pizza or a Mauna Kea sized stack of pancakes to “every once in a while” :)
For amateur athletes, I think face stuffing (nutrient rich foods) will do many of them good. Many have disordered thinking and eating, like “dieting” while training and other things than kill metabolism and health. Performance will come with health. Be patient. And last but not least… if you have been on a low-carb diet anytime in recent history, get started right away!”
More on the amount of carbohydrates required to prevent overtraining’symptoms from setting in HERE. You can see there that 1000 grams of carbohydrates daily is far from overkill, but is a quantity that is scientifically established as being required’to fully replenish glycogen levels after serious exercise.If you are looking for specific marathon, triathlon, or ultramarathon nutrition tips – just eat as much?fruit (preferably tropical fruits -the sweetest and most calorie-dense), dried fruit,?other carby foods like rice, bagels, potatoes, etc., syrups, sugars,?and juices as you can possibly stomach.
Could we have an article about The Real Amy?
YES and one about Thomas Seay too plz. Even though Chuck is my favorite banana eater in the world.
xo
hagatha
I never eat bananas, though I do support people who lead that sort of lifestyle.
Thomas, nice attempt to see more photos!! :-)
No, Amy, it was not an attempt to see more photos. You might find it weird, but I was actually worried about you. You haven’t posted in a while.
Photos wouldn’t hurt, though… :)
No need to worry! I am fine, just keeping busy lately. I started running again recently so this post was timely I guess, although we’re talking like 2-3 miles a couple days week at this point, not exactly endurance-quantity. I just have way too much energy to burn right now.
SO – if one is NOT an endurance athlete BUT works out for about 1 hour or so 4-5 days a week what would an optimal diet for hat person be??
High carb/low fat/moderate protein???
We are confused!
Me too, confused.
Sounds like a pretty good place to start. There’s no perfect diet, so adjust according to your needs. I don’t want to sound anti-fat, but if weight loss is a factor I’ve always found it’s the first macro I ditch.
There is a Charles Grashow who wants to die at 75 regardless of his state of health.
Question for CJ: with all that fruit, how extra added salt do you consume?
I do quite a bit of salt. Keep in mind I live in a very hot/humid environment and exercise in it. I got hyponatremia in 2011 and I don’t want to tangle with that ever again.
My main source if salt is white sea salt, and I usually anywhere from 1tsp-1tbsp a day depending on what I’m doing.
Hi, I know this isn’t exactly on topic, but I have been rrafing for about 3 weeks now. I’ve gained about 5 lbs, have way more energy, my temps are always 36.7-37.4, no more cold hands and feet. I’ve been exercising still, but taking a few extra rest days compared to normal, and decreased my over consumption of water, tea etc. So my question is when do you stop rrafing? Until you don’t gain any more fat? Or do you stop when your temps are up consistently? Thanks!
I would go ahead and reach the point where you are eating what you want, in whatever quantity you desire, with a totally reasonable and sustainable amount of physical activity, with no weight gain and high temps maintained.
so – ratios don’t matter??
The best ratios are those that make you feel awesome and that taste delicious.
IMO of course Charles.
Mattie, his next race is the Honolulu Marathon in early December.
It’s a good race, tough, but beautiful.
xo
haggie
Hag is correct :) I thought about Kona marathon, but didn’t want to pay the bucks for a lackluster performance. I haven’t focused on my run for a while. I have plenty of time to prep for Honolulu. I’m not real excited about how emaciated I’m going to get, but I guess that’s part of the territory.
CJ, what are your times like on the ironmans and halfs. And what are you strongest in?
5 hrs. Done three 1/2s in the past 5 months (rookie year). I haven’t raced a full yet due to being a poor ass with no money to travel or pay those ridiculous entry fees. This short stuff isn’t my strength. Don’t have the needed speed in my legs yet, but mainland where it’s cooler, times would likely look closer to 4:45. Even Craig Alexander slowed to a 4:20 this year at Honu for the win, so I don’t feel too bad about it.
I just got most the extra weight off, so my next half in about 8 months is expected sub-4:40 with a good day. I’m looking for sub 3hrs at Honolulu 26.2.
No idea what I’m strongest in. Should be the bike? but during those races that hasn’t been the case. In training I’m about a 30 swim, 2:26 bike, 1:40 run. The run times will be coming down fast now, so maybe the run? Funny… because in 2008 my knees were so bad I couldn’t run a mile or do a body weight squat. I wore custom molded carbon knee braces during outdoor activities. Run Forrest Run! ;)
These are great times, especially for your rookie year! Sounds like you must be doing things right.
Thank you.
Updated my goal for Honolulu last week. I’m now looking to go 2:30, but will be happy with anything under 3 hours.
How do you eat so much fruit without destroying your teeth and gums? Whenever I eat too much fruit/sugar and drink juices I immediately notice how my mouth deteriorates.
Honestly, most of the teeth problems I’ve seen with people who eat lots of fruit stem from:
a) overbrushing
b) unripe fruits
c) they’re acid fruit lovers (ie.. citrus)
d) all of the above
Not saying this is you, but I’ve never seen otherwise (at least in an omnivore) with a nutrient rich diet.
Do you have any resources on how to select ripe fruits? Is that even possible 100% of the time, for those of us who live in non-tropical locals?
I use the sight method. If there’s flies around them, they’re ripe :)
I was serious above, but in all seriousness… there is a learning curve. You have to buy the unripe stuff at the store and wait for it. If you’re basing your caloric intake around fruit, you can see where this is a problem. Until you learn ripening times, you’ll probably under-buy and run out for a while until you learn.
Best way is to go by smell (sweet), feel (soft), and taste (not bitter or sour).
Do you ever do frozen fruit?
All the time :) It’s hot as hell here and I was a big Popsicle eater as a kid and young adult. Data that I’ve seen (but never cross checked) said something like only a 10% loss in nutrients.
Question about bananas. I’m wondering if anyone else has ever had the same problem as I do with bananas. Whenever I eat 1 banana a day for 2-3 days in a row I start having muscle twitches on my face. Normally my eye, but sometime cheek/mouth area as well. Any ideas as to what about bananas may cause this??
I’ve heard of eating a banana to STOP eye twitching (something about potassium), but it does the exact opposite for me. I know bananas aren’t a requirement to eat more fruit/sugar carbs, but they are cheap and easy to acquire.
Maybe you’re getting too much potassium in relation to sodium due to the bananas? Just a guess.
I get full blown cramps in hands and feet w/ too many bananas. Like Derek said, I believe it’s an imbalance–potassium overload. I’m experimenting adding sodium & liquid magnesium citrate to my banana meals. the cramps have subsided.
Maybe.. I’ve obviously considered a potassium “overload”, but thought that seemed weird considering this is literally after only 2 bananas in 2 days. Doesn’t seem like much. Maybe I just naturally have high potassium or something??
Because I believe most people seem to not get even the DV of potassium.. I don’t think I do when I have tracked food before. I also have never purposely restricted salt. I’ve always added salt to food and even when I was paleo I added salt to everything. It’s pretty weird though. I suppose I should just stay away from bananas maybe.
Try the mag. Especially if you do a lot of calcium. It stopped my ocean swim cramping.
I said in a comment somewhere before buried deep in the recesses of some thread. It seems to me from reading and observing, that humans have probably evolved dealing with widely varying stresses. Incredible feats of endurance out of necessity and frequent, if not regular, feast and famine cycles or eating just one or several less than ideal foods for lengths of time. Doesn’t it seem that maybe people are losing the capacity to easily make shifts back and forth between depleting and rebuilding states? Especially considering the foods we now have available for re-feeding, many of which would have been less accessible, and which might be assumed more effective. If it is true that we can’t recover as easily, what would the likely culprits be? Chronic stress, dieting and mental interference about food don’t seem like they could account for it all. Just some thoughts. I’d be interested in other people’s opinions on both the idea that modern people are not as capable of making these shifts, and why that might be true. I might be reading more into this than there is because my progress feels slow and I have a lot of damage to undo. If I’m right though, it seems like an all important question. Maybe a post Matt???
BTW, what spurred me to ask this is that CJ seems pretty good and moving back and forth, and tweaking this and might be more like what I imagine people used to be like. But so many of us are really degenerated and not starting out as probably relatively healthy athletes.
Yes, I’m a pro tweaker. I’m very in tune with my body’s needs these days.
I was not a relatively healthy athlete though. 5 years ago I was walking dead with a pharmacy in my pocket.
CJ, why were you sick, and how did you recover?
I eat like a runaway train. I was eating all the wrong crap. Minute Mart heat lamp entries washed down with energy drinks. My body was an inflamed mess. Nobody diagnosed much of anything. At one point I was on 4 types of prescription (injected/oral/inhaled/sprayed) steroids to combat inflammation. Not one MD ever asked me what I ate.
How did I recover? Ate real food and listened to my body. Well, at least post-paleo I listened ;) Gone went inflammation, asthma, fatigue, etc…
So, you eat stuff like subway now, it does not affect you like it used to, then? I’m thinking of trying out some foods that used to cause me trouble when my metabolic rate was very low, so I’m curious how that went for you.
Nah, my gut’s in real good shape these days. If I eat stuff like that consistently my digestion slows down and isn’t as efficient relatively speaking. If things start going out of whack, I still pop PB8 from time to time.
Amy: At least from Matt, I havent gotten a junk food vibe for a long time. Under a closer look his “junk” in the eyes of most people if actually pretty nutrient dense stuff.
I keep white flour pretty limited. It’s a pretty damn good ultra food though, but that’s a whole other story :)
Awesome. That’s great that you healed yourself so well. I’m a huge proponent of whole foods. I don’t really buy the idea thrown around here that processed junk foods are good (other than maybe in the initial stages of metablic recovery for someone who’s been starving). Even when I was recovering from my ED, I was eating real food all the way.
Do you eat white flour?
If I were to stop eating processed food, I would not eat enough and my health would decline as a result. Already tested it post-rrarf. I’m guessing I am not the only one who has had to strike a balance between what I think is healthy and how my body actually reacts.
I know a few people the same way. Tiny eaters. Processed “junk” generally has no shortage of calories and palatability. Usually those processed foods can be made with higher quality/nutritious ingredients at home, but then you have to have the time for that. :(
Well, that’s encouraging! I don’t think I’ll be running any marathons, but I’d like to be able to run again, just for kicks.
Thats an interesting point. I have dabbled in audio production since I was a teen and have attended many a conference on the effect of noise on our stress levels. The military did investigate its use as a weapon. Maybe its the cars, trucks, airplanes, and computer fans in addition to whatever else in your life stresses you. We must admit, modern life is oddly stressful. I don’t lead the life that my body was designed for, my native american ancestors wouldn’t have been as mentally stressed out as we have been, well since 1492. Sure, there was always the possibility of famine, kidnapping, death by wild animal, etc. but a quiet day actually was quiet. My quiet days involve more chores, just at a different place. I do feel keyed up a lot, I imagine thats true for many people.
Personally, I think the most likely candidates are things like antibiotics, hormones and all the chemicals we ingest on a daily basis (willingly or not).
I am inclined to think chemicals and metals might be major culprits too. Stress, I have mixed feelings about. Primitive and agricultural lives definitely had major stressors. Hunger, periods of limited diet, and intense endurance requirements like I already mentioned and often fear of depredation by other people or groups and infant mortality just to name a couple more. Then there are always breakups and relationship drama which seems universal and have really tanked my body temps the past few days. Maybe it is that our stressors are different though, and maybe less easy for us to understand and grapple with. The ones I listed above are relatively straight forward I suppose and maybe a lot of ours today are chronic and sort of fake, like living in very artificial environments that we don’t understand very well and being disconnected from things like working with our hands or having meaningful and necessary interactions with our environments. Worrying about money and business and work. And as Alisha says artificial noise. I live on 40 acres and I can’t get away from it. If it’s not the hippies on the hill chainsawing the forest to grow weed, or the logging trucks on the road a couple miles away, or the planes and helicopters, it’s me blasting death metal… is there a headbanging emoticon? But then some people live with all of these things pretty well it seems.
I think the other thing is nutrition status. Living in NYC, I’ve noticed that the recent immigrants (for example, we have a lot of South Americans and Mexicans coming here) have the best stamina and health. They grew up on a more whole-foods diet and all of them have Weston A. Price faces with perfect teeth. They also likely grew up without too much in the way of medicine or chemical interference, although probably they had pesticides and other chemicals.
yes some call it “the bad start” or being a “pottenger’s cat”.
I think the Pottenger cat study is an indictment of unregulated stress hormones during development, which can be mitigated with a destressing food source. I am not convinced by the WAPF interpretation which focuses on nutritional status. The study mutilated cats and removed their ability to regulate stress hormones. The focus on nutritional status suggests there is one solution, such as whole foods or a Sally Fallon Fat Fest. Whereas, the focus on stress hormones would suggest an approach which looks towards stress hormone reduction while supporting varied nutrition. Taking this further, the resiliency of people with perfect dentation could be a representation of healthier stress hormones. The reason why all this matters, is that the focus on nutritional status by people who have already shown overreactive stress hormones would be both inappropriate and unproductive.
As a side note, WAPF is one of those organizations that does not highlight assumptions or caveats in their research and, in my opinion, takes highly relevant scientific work and turns it into psuedoscience.
I haven’t read any of the Pottenger stuff, but maybe I should. I have noticed though that what I took away from Nutrition and Physical Degeneration is not the same as that which is advocated by WAPF and others. Price seemed to indicate that 1) there are a few fat soluble vitamins that are essential for health and development, and 2) that they are not always easy to find and should be sought out in adequate quantities. 3) He indicts refined carbohydrates.
What I get from WAPF and other nutrient dense cheerleaders, like the intolerably arrogant Getoff, is that if some is good, more is better and we should cram as much nutrient dense food as possible down our throats. Like don’t eat too much food that is not of the absolute highest nutrient density. Total quantity of food consumed and particularly of calories seems to get little play. It seems to me that there are unanswered questions here. Obviously we need vitamins and minerals, and I’m inclined the think price is right on 1 and 2. What is adequate is open to debate and probably beyond defining given the complexities involved with individuals. I hope to delve back into NPD with 3 in mind. He provides examples of families in which one or more people ate refined foods and the others ate traditional foods and were clearly healthier, but he already had an agenda, so he may have overlooked cases that did not prove that idea. Without all the data as to how little nutritious food those degenerates ate along with their refined and processed foods, we are left with his interpretation of the situation. As much as I admire Price and what he did, and think there is great value in it, we can’t assume that his interpretation is correct. In fact, the book reads like he is really trying to convince us with only the good news, and as you point out about WAPF Nina, he does not highlight his assumptions for us, or probably for himself. That, after all, is hard to do. I know it’s hard for me. As someone pointed out in a recent comment somewhere on 180, He took kids that subsisted on crappy refined foods at home and completely reversed their tooth decay by feeding them one nutritious meal a day while they continued to eat the same otherwise. That is rather telling, but is overlooked in WAPF’s religious avoidance of refined foods.
Finally, where did the whole properly prepared grains thing come from? I mean these people are terrified of an unfermented grain or legume. It doesn’t seem to have come from Price. He generally seems to recommend unfermented grains, and some of the people he studied ate unfermented grains as a staple, like the British Isles people that ate oat cakes (which are hella tasty BTW).
Price also advocated one other thing very strongly: soil quality.
When I read NPD, what I took away was that we should eat unprocessed, fresh food, raw milk is more nutritious than pasteurized, we should get sufficient fat-soluble vitamins, and try to eat food grown in good soil. I think I made the comment about one really nutritious meal a day, and I agree that is telling (and should make us all a lot less stressed about food).
What I did NOT get from NPD was anything about needing to eat tons of butter, limit carbs or soak/ferment grains, which somehow many WAPFers now promote. I don’t know where that came from either. I just ignore that stuff mostly, but the WAPF does generally have good info and intentions IMO.
Yeah, right. Forgot that one. At the time I read NPD, it really got me thinking about the relatively poor quality of my soil and how to improve it on a large scale (charcoal seems the best bet at this point, but literally tons of it). I also ran across an interesting reference around the same time advocating similar ideas. From Autobiography of a Farm Boy by Isaac Phillips Roberts pg 47. Roberts was a farmer become professor and head of AG at Cornell. “With such an abundant food supply and with so rich a soil, every living creature, man included, had a strong bony and muscular structure. So among the many things for which I am thankful is the circumstance that my boyhood was spent in that land of well-balanced plenty before the cream of the soil had been niched from it. “…. “It is evident that American farmers cannot continue to deplete the land of its most valuable constituents without endangering the size and the physical power of coming generations.”…” “Tell me what you eat and I will tell you what manner of man you are,” is an old saying. But tell me what the soil is, and I will tell you the quality of the men and animals which will be produced from the foods raised upon it.” I am inclined to continue to seek out quality food grown in quality soil. It generally tastes better anyway. In the meantime, I just eat, because I either can’t find it, can’t afford it and I can’t fight that battle on an empty stomach.
I wish I knew how to find food grown in good soil. I shop at farmer’s markets as much as I can, but I’m not convinced there’s much good soil out there now.
As far as I am concerned, permaculture is where it’s at for soil health, and there are a few vendors at city markets. I also have friends who swear by biodynamic agriculture produce as well, I don’t know how prevalent that is on the East Coast though. If my concern was soil nutrients, I would look for food grown on young volcanic land or in their alluvial plains.
Matt
You previously stated that carbs should represent a minimum 50% of your daily calories. So – what’s the maximum?
If you’ve trashed 80-10-10 does that mean that the upper limit is 79%???
I’m anywhere from 70-90. Probably closer to 70% most of the time because I keep protein a little higher.
Just guessing… but Matt’s problem with 80/10/10 might be more the Vegan part?
I don’t have an problem with 80-10-10 outright, it’s just in practice, the more a macronutrient gets restricted the more likely someone is to spontaneously undereat in response to the declining palatability of the diet. Most people eventually eat food how it tastes the best, which is always mixed together.
CJ
Thanks for the reply – if the carbs are at 70% then what would the fat and proterin be?
I haven’t done an official food log in year now, but the few times I’ve added it up, seems the fat was still 10-15%. I strongly believe macros are individual (and change), so you need to play around and find your own.
what are your thoughts on diet for strength athletes that train daily?
Maybe eating bugs is a great idea, or maybe not.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9rngH6hP4L8
I look forward to the day I visit Thailand so I can dine of the street food :)
Just spent 5 months there :)
I know you did. Just a wee bit jealous! :)
Yes! Make CJ a regular contributor! Guy’s a beast.
@CJ
You don’t have a blog anymore, do you?
I have one, if you can call it that. Been on the back burner waiting for a facelift for about a year & half now. I’m scattered around the web. Currently on hiatus from Facebook, but still sort of on twitter and post on Dailymile when I remember.
Sweet, I used to read castlegrok til the updates ended. So what’s your veggie intake like these days? What importance do you view veggies as having in a diet that covers most things through fruit/animal foods?
I feel better eating them. Might be available minerals? Who knows. I know that just fruit and animals which was basically what I did for the past year + supplemented a multi-mineral vitamin and molasses due to my sweaty lifestyle, I didn’t feel as good as I do now with them back in.
Do you keep it to easy to digest veggies like lettuce?
Basically never eat lettuce. It’s usually the dark leafy stuff. I get them from the Filipinos, so I have no idea what most of them are. I just ask if they’re edible. LOL. Think along the lines of spinach and kale. Actually, currently probably 50% is different kales.
BTW, Matt has been asking me to write stuff for a long time, so don’t blame him. I’m better at answering questions than I am at coming up with original topics, which is how he suckered me in this time.
I’ve pretty much abandoned the web for over a year except for Facebook, and even that got deactivated over a month ago.
I’m not just doing all this exercise for myself. There is a higher purpose. I’m going to ask ya’lls help in spreading the word about a fundraiser in the near-ish future, so maybe Matt and I can use each other a little bit.
Thank you Matt for posting this, it is really helpful! And thank you so much for presenting an endurance athlete who actually has a nice body. I am so sick of the cherry-picked pictures of attractive sprinters and unatractive marathonners, this is so lame..CJ, may I ask what else you do for recovery/maintaining immune function in addition to eating sufficient calories? Do you have any strategy? I am asking because I am training to qualify for the German championship (masters class, I am an “older” athlete) for the 1500m while having two young kids, the older already in kindergarden and she takes home nasty deseases and I catch close to each of them. I would really love to be able to train uninterrupted by being sick for a stretch of time…Also, another question I would love to have answered: My training for 1500m races does include some sprints/strides but they are integrated into interval sessions (usually 200m-1200m intervals), or after a jog. Do those, or even the shorter intervals (200 and 300m repetitions) still have muscle-building potential or is the effect counteracted because of the high volume of the workout? Thank you!
Honestly as much as I want to be a proud tough manly man and think I have a good immune system, it’s still pretty much sh|t. I tend to catch things if I’m around them. Living in a vacation destination I’m exposed to crap coming in from every corner of the earth, + have to deal with car exhaust and the sulfur dioxide in the air from the volcano. I lost about 8 weeks of training coming into this last race from 3 different colds. When I know I’m going to be around heavy exposure, I dial back on training, or at least make sure I’m not over-training, and also keep the food choices very nutrient dense.
I guess my advise would be just regular old comon sense: Don’t over-train and keep the food nutrient dense.
I’m thinking about taking high-ish doses of vitamin C everyday. It’s cheap and there’s a few people I know who do that and rarely get sick. My Dad is one of them. He started it about 34 years ago when he was getting his PHD and working with some famous scientist guy. He’s missed I think 1.5 days of work since then due to illness and he’s with sick people all day long, has a crap lifestyle, and works 60-80 hours a week.
I can build muscle doing long distance training if I eat everything in sight. Sorry, my exercise is very unstructured to keep it… dare I say, “fun” and injury free, so I’m not much on training advice other than that. I would think blazing 200-300s could build the beef, especially if the other stuff is real slow.
I don’t want to diss anybody, but I am wondering how you see them as “cherry-picked”. I watched the Olympics last Summer. The marathon runners looked like escapees from a Concentration camp. Maybe there were some who didn’t look like that, but I didn’t see them.
I think maybe Iris meant that sites (like Paleo sites for example) that are anti-cardio, always use photos of world class marathoners, which like you said, basically always look like concentration camp escapees for their fear-mongering agenda.
Worth noting, though, that the East Africans at the front of those races eat about 75% carb, often about 800g a day. The Kenyans eat a lot of fruit, kale, ugali (corn paste), and tea with rather copious amounts of white sugar. Minus the “bulking” cycle, this sounds similar to your approach.
^ Bingo! 800 carbs a day, and they weigh about a buck 15 with wet sponges in they’re jersey. Ironmen legend Dave Scott sat in that macro ratio too.
They also mostly train at a heart rate (aerobic) that Steve Phinney (Mr. low-carb athlete pusher) has his athletes train at. The difference is, the Kenyans are fast in races, have energy to explode (unlike Phinney’s) because of carbs, and obviously utilize fat because they have none of it. Haha. They can run forever without carbs like any seasoned athlete in a low aerobic zone, but they’re not morons and want to win, so why would they? Lets see… lets dope EPO, but then not eat carbs. Makes sense. LOL
The more you look into low-carb athlete research, the more it looks like a bad joke. I know and have worked with a lot of high class or vet endurance athletes. If you even mention Phinney’s work to them, they’ll laugh in your face. There’s a reason why nobody who’s anybody does it. I’m embarrassed I believed/did it for a while.
Hi CJ,
All those fruits and veggies make for a lot of fibre. Have you ever had a problem handling it?
Loose/soft stool a few times when I’ve been transitioning back into it from eating mostly other foods. Blending helps. I use some PB8 and it seems to firm things back up.
Thomas Seay, yes, I should have been more concrete: I probably had women’s bodies in my mind as I am a female myself. There are quite a few distance runners who look awesome (Kara Goucher, Genevieve LaCaze, the German “Sujew twins”). They are not skinny fat but very lean and look healthy and fabulous. Okay, some are not marathonners, more 1500m runners or steeplechasers but even those do high mileage. Many world class female sprinters carry quite a bit of body fat. I am not saying there is anything wrong with it but I am arguing about the image of the “skinny fat” runner. Body fat percentage (average) is lower in female distance runners than in female sprinters (the lowest body fat percentage occuring in cross country skiers). Off-season is a different story, most pro-distance runners gain (and are encouraged to do so!) 5-10% of body weight off-season.
The physical feat of stomaching all of that food is more impressive than running marathons.
Sometimes, like last night I was trying to play caloric catch-up on the week but didn’t want to feel bogged down today by heavy foods. I was so chocked full of bananas I had to lay down for an hour with labored breathing.
There was a Christmas binge when I was paleo. I logged 12,800 or something calories on fitday in that few hour window. Haha
CJ
When you were eating “paleo” what was your diet like?
Textbook. And when it stopped working, I thought I was doing it wrong and got orthorexic with it. It was a disaster. I now see paleo as more of an eating disorder than something helpful. It got me off my meds which I’m grateful for (any diet would have done this), but everything else (strength, energy, muscle, mind) went backward.
What’s your take on dairy now? Looks like pretty positive if you’re contemplating upping it significantly next month?
It’s a tool in the box now that I have no problems with it. Sometimes I use it, sometimes not. The past week I’ve been at 1/2 gallon a day. Before that, seems like I haven’t much touched it since Feb?
Full fat, skim or fat free?
In my case I can eat yogurt with no problem but not milk.
Non-fat, and usually non-fat. I eat enough. I’m not yet to the point of needing the fat for calories.
My daughter, who got such crippling rheumatoid arthritis she had to drop out of college for a year and was bedridden for about 8 months, was an endurance athlete all through high school (swimming, cross country skiing, track) and ate a pretty good diet (organic foods, grassfed meats, homemade yogurt) before she got sick. She’s recovered enough to have graduated college (on a Weston Price diet) but will probably never be tempted to do any endurance sports again. You are right to warn people of the dangers of overtraining, Matt. We are grateful for the healing, but the process has been a real bitch.
CCM, have she tried eliminating yogurt? Last year if I ate yogurt I wouldn’t be able to run for a week because massive stiffness in my knees (edema). Funny thing is… it seemed the only dairy product to do this was yogurt.
CJ, thanks for the post. Why do you believe fruit is better than start for energy per this comment: “Anyone who knows me, already knows I preach the superiority of fruit over starch for energy. They don’t even compare as far as I’m concerned. ” Do you eat a lot of fruit to keep your body temp lower or you just think its better for energy. IN Eat for Heat, Matt seems to warn about eatting too much fruit. I guess you could balance it out with salt.
You seem to eat a lot of sugar. Are you a Danny Roddy/Peatatarian fan?
Why do unripe fruits cause teeth problems and you also seem to focus only on ripe fruits?
Thanks. I appreciate your comments.
Well, really it’s as simple as: Starch sends me to the couch and fruit steers me towards the road. As far as the temp, I wouldn’t really say the fruit keeps the temp lower, but rather they keep it from raising above where it already sits.
Funny enough, I haven’t known about Peat for very long (11/2011). I thought he was a paleo guy, so I never even read a sentence when I landed on his site many times. Not sure how I ever actually ended up looking at his stuff, but when I did… what I was currently doing wasn’t much off his guidelines. Gelatin & increasing salt was really about it. One thing he did do for me was make sense of why what I was doing was working. So yeah, I guess I’m a fan. I guess I like Danny, because he’s brought attention to Peat’s work (like Matt) and has received heat for doing so.
Lots of problems with unripe. I would say mostly PH because the sugars haven’t developed. Hard on the gums and softens enamel. Add over-brushing (which tons of people do) and you have issues fast.The fruit vegans preach the unripe thing a lot (for many reasons), and I happen to agree.
CJ,
I saw your old blog post about megadosing on Vitamin D when you begin to feel sick. Do you still do that?
I just put that post back up. It was the most hit page on the old site. Nah though, I live in the tropics now. I get plenty of D.
I can tell when I’ve been inside at the computer too much, I get grouchy ;)
Thanks for the reply. Did the high doses of Vit D work for you in the past (your pre-tropical days)? It might be worth a shot next time I get sick.
You know, I think they might have. Hard saying because some bugs are stronger than others. Like the bugs here… they all seem to be super-bugs. All you can do is hopefully dodge them, and if not, just ride them out.
Fellow endurance athlete started diet recovery this week, so this article is timely for me.
Did you continue with your training at the same level when you started Eat for heat? Did you go overboard with eating whatever when you first started and if so, for how long, before you changed things and lost weight again?
I’m in my offseason so thought this would be a good time to start, but still planning a half marathon, then marathon before my first half ironman for the season later in the year, so not in a position to stop / reduce my training. Feel like I’ve been on the diet roundabout forever, always struggling with my weight, and have resulting metabolic and mental issues. The thought of gaining weight doing this (which I know I will do easily and quickly) is going to make this hard to stick with. I’m quietly freaking out that I’ll be back where I started struggling to lose lots of weight (again!) again come race time, and will go back to whatever diet method that’s the rage, yet again. But hopefully you’ve inspired me.
Actually no. During about half of that period I did about 1/2 the training volume, partly because the starches make me lazy. Then I ramped it up closer to 20 hours a week. That’s when I started having my overheating and high heart stuff. I’m still only around 20 hours a week now because of work and crap, but my body is begging for more.
Just to be clear, I didn’t follow Matt’s program. I’m an independent kind of guy like Matt, and he’s one of the few people I tell people to come read. What I was doing probably fits pretty closely with most of what Matt talks about though. There were plenty of photos on Facebook as evidence. I’ve emailed Matt things I do and the findings behind the scenes for probably a few years now. Everything from body temps, to sugar levels in my piss, to sexual performance. Haha
Here’s my best tip: You’re thinking too much.
Here’s my next tip: Long & slow (low HR). Might be pissing your body off with your training.
Here’s my last tip: Don’t go nuts eating fat.
Hey CJ, any tips for someone who wants to specifically target love handles through diet and training? I believe they are oestrogens related right? Would a 2 weeks of high-carb/low fat similar to what you do do the trick?
As far as I’m concerned, there is no targeting. Fat is going to come off where it wants, when it wants. I’m a perfect example of this. I’ve had a fat ass since before I was a teen (could be estrogen related for sure). The rest of my body is that of a sub-10% person, but my ass is that of 30% person. Almost all my training is legs. I NEVER lift weights. If targeting worked, my legs would have zero fat. It’s the last place to go on me. I’ve been trying to pull off a speedo now for 2 months. It’ll probably be 2 more before I can get away with it. If targeting worked, every fat person who bought an ab lounge would have a lean 6 pack.
I don’t like giving weight loss advice. It’s too easily warped into destructive thinking that’ll kill homeostasis (which will eventually maybe get rid of those handles, just like my disappearing ass). 2 weeks wont take care of anything that resembles a “handle” without destructive measures IMO.
Fair enough. I am happy with my level of fitness and body fat, but not with those bloody handles and belly fat, so if really they are oestrogens related I wonder if some food or regimen can decrease oestrogens for males (I tried the aspirins after meal for 6 months, Ray Peat advice, it worked but induced chronic fatigue, go figure!) but I bet it could be an article for Matt or Danny, hopefully. I don’t want to diet as such, but get rid of those things still lol. Thanks for the honest answer.
Btw don’t get rid of your fat ass, fat ass esare great. Nicki Minaj can testify.
Laurent, the two things I can recommend are pilates and callanetics. Granted, they won’t get rid of fat, but they really do tighten up the muscles underneath in these areas, making the fat less apparent.
Thanks Amy that might just do the trick!
Kind of like Amy said, you can change your shape and make them less noticeable. Yeah, I’ve had some girlfriends that like the big ass. Oh well. They’re Ex-girlfriends now.
A bubble but I could handle, but until that’s developed… Fat asses don’t run fast, so sayonara.
What did you notice when you started adding decent amounts of salt to your diet compared to before? How do you eat the salt, just throw it in a smoothie?
Mostly that I felt better because my electrolytes weren’t all jacked up in this hot environment. Depends. Long hot workout days I throw it in bottles of sugar, or drink sports drinks. Other days it’s tossed in smoothies. I even dip bananas in it sometimes if I’m really lazy.
CJ, how long were you refeeding for and when did you start to notice the fat loss after switching carb sources? Also, how long did it take for temps to come down? I’m 100.2 degrees upon waking every morning and I feel like a furnace.
I usually walk for 2 hours everyday (because I have more energy than I know what to do with) and lift really heavy 3 days a week. Powerlifting actually. Would you say my protein requirements would be higher than yours?
I think about 10 months? Some came off pretty quickly. Maybe 10lbs. Honestly, I didn’t keep track too much. If I re-activated my facebook account I might be able to patch together a timeline. Once I introduced all the greens etc.. heat and weight started dissipating fast enough people noticed.
I doubt your protein requirements are higher. If you said cycled or ran hard 2 hours a day and weighed 200lbs, I’d say yes, but walking is so low intensity. You get enough protein from food. I wouldn’t go out of your way to get lots more. Especially if you’re eating lots of carbs. If you need evidence for your subconscious to be ok with eating less protein, get Brad Pilon’s “How Much Protein?” book. He basically covers in it that we’ve been sold the idea of protein.
I like articles like this that show that carbs are the worst thing in the world. I’ve had so many people tell me that carbs would kill their diet and it’s just not true. Even for people not doing endurance, carbs will not make or break your diet. Thanks for sharing this great article!
You probably only posted here to get a backlink, but yep! Quite the opposite of the -rexic diets. Carbs are satiating and slimming. I eat oodles of them training or not. If you’re training a lot, it can actually be tougher to get enough in calories in if you’re eating mostly carbs.
Great story! An inspiration of what can be achieved. Do you think your diet and training are in a pretty sustainable place now? Or will you ‘eat for heat’ again? I guess it’s hard to tell. Thank you for sharing!
I don’t feel I’ll have to because I’m not doing anything dumb (like dieting. The exact opposite really), but never say never right?
So have you been adding more dairy since this post CJ? If so how’s it been working out?
CJ I noticed in an old post on Polyuria in 2011 you mentioned that you had frequent urination issues… Im just wondering if over the years improving your metabolism you have seen improvements? OR is urination frequency still quite high?
I still pee a lot. It’s a direct result of drinking a lot from the exercise. It’s very hot here. I don’t pee a lot when I’m on the mainland sitting around on the couch etc…
Unlike high intensity exercise, it might actually be more appropriate to burn fat for fuel with endurance exercise. Studies have shown a slight advantage in fat adapted athletes doing ultra long distance cardio, while carbs and fats are about equally effective in long distance cardio. This has been tested in both cycling and marathon running.
More importantly endurance exercise inhibits complex 1 in the electron transport chain and glucose molecules enter via complex 1 (fatty acids and ketones enter complex 2). This is problematic because if electrons cannot flow freely through the electron transport chain (such as when the entry channels are inhibited by endurance exercise) they pass through as the potent free radical superoxide. The combination of endurance exercise and a high carb diet would dramatically increase oxidative stress via superoxide production -http://perfecthealthdiet.com/2011/05/can-endurance-exercise-promote-cancer/
Marcus, I’m sorry for the short answer, and in no way am I trying to be condescending. I actually typed a longer response, but it would barely scratched the surface of the topic. I scanned that PHD article for about 1 minute. Frankly I just don’t care enough anymore to try and explain some of the places they’ve gone astray. It’s a side effect of me eating sufficient carbohydrate.
The low-carb camp loves to use “fat adaptation” to justify their diet to the endurance athlete. For every study or justification they present, one can find a whole host of variables unaccounted for in the cherry picked science. Not to mention the other studies with opposite findings.
I’m not in the convincing business like paleo, so my short answer is; “Please search outside the paleo camp for more information on the topic.”
An on a side note about stress in general… worrying about stuff like this (which is actually the point many people take it to), causes more stress than not thinking about it, making net stress levels as high as just eating junk.
I wonder how CJ is doing today, if he has been able to uphold his endurane training and diet/lifestyle.