Brace yourselves for the coinage of a cheap and somewhat sleazy-sounding new health and fitness-related term: The Metabolic Zone.
What is this coveted Metabolic Zone you ask? It’s an elusive state of being where someone can eat well beyond the normal BMR calculations for their height and weight, exercise rather minimally, sporadically, and infrequently, and effortlessly and spontaneously lose body fat.
To most, The Metabolic Zone sounds like some health guru unicorn shit. I too have had trouble believing in its existence at times, but there is a great deal of evidence that it exists. It’s hard to get in, and it’s hard to stay in, but its existence is all but certain.
First, let me again clarify that we are specifically talking about losing body fat, not maintaining weight. Just about anyone can enter a state where they can eat just about whatever they want in the quantities they desire, with or without exercise. I’ve referred to this as being ?fat proof? in the past, and just about everyone at every age is in this zone for most of their lives. Although it’s a coveted state for a chronic dieter (who can’t do that without gaining weight rapidly), there’s no magic or controversy there.
I also want to clarify that we aren’t just talking about eating and exercising ‘to appetite? or ?intuitively? and losing weight. Many enter this state just from removing psychological prohibitions about certain ?naughty? foods, stop binge eating, and lose weight solely from reducing their calorie intake. Many more can enter into a state where they are eating as much as they desire and losing body fat simply by restricting their diet to boring, repetitive chow of some kind.
This type of body fat loss is most likely triggered solely by a decreased consumption of food, and in my personal experience leads to the same repercussions as intentional calorie deprivation, including increased hypersensitivity to weight gain when consuming normal portions of normal food.
Note, there is definitely some evidence that eating a nutritious, whole foods, low-calorie density diet for weight loss is better than just eating smaller portions, and there is evidence that exercising to achieve a calorie deficit is better than just eating less of whatever it was you’ve been eating.
But this article is not intended to address those finer nuances. This article is intended to discuss the existence of The Metabolic Zone and all that is known and suspected about it.
Here are some characteristics of the Metabolic Zone that we can be fairly confident about: ?
- It is activated by a surplus of caloric consumption. In fact, if you are losing body fat in the Metabolic Zone and you start eating less or exercising a lot, you’ll immediately stop losing body fat. The belief here is that consistently eating a surplus of calories can lower the bodyweight set point over time. Billy Craig taking himself to the point of emaciation eating 6,000 calories per day is the most notable personal human experiment I’m aware of showing this effect.
- It is easier for young people to get into than it is for older people, but people of all ages have entered this zone.
- It is not dependent on macronutrient restriction, and in fact, it’s most accessible eating a maximally-palatable mixed diet.
- It’s often accompanied by hypermetabolic indicators such as excessive warmth, hypersexuality, increased stool volume, rapid wound healing, improved sleep depth, and so on.
- It’s most commonly experienced by young women postpartum, who often lose weight effortlessly and spontaneously UNLESS they try to exercise or diet it off. It’s also common at puberty with the surge of adult hormones that accompany it.
- It’s difficult to reach with major life stresses, poor sleep, and other inconsistencies. It’s easier to reach in a low stress environment with abundant sleep.
- It’s hard to reach with a high exercise load or absolutely no exercise at all. There is a physical activity ‘sweet spot.”
- It’s commonly entered after a period of weight gain, for example, after weeks of holiday feasting.
- It’s commonly entered after a huge, stress-relieving event.
- It’s awesome, and health educators who advise others to engage in activities against their will vehemently deny its existence.
For years people have written in telling me about their experiences in the Metabolic Zone. They were usually young people, and, while their stories were amazing and filled me with hope, the Metabolic Zone remained an elusive mystery in my own personal life.
Mule-Kicked by the Unicorn
It was almost exactly five years ago that I intentionally gained weight eating as much food as I could over several months. I gained from 190 to 225 during that time period, and was lifting weights heavily (tons of that added weight was muscle mass). I was surprised that it didn’t magically come off on a summer hiking trip. In fact, after the hiking trip I gained another 15 pounds up to 240! I was also lifting during that weight gain period and was looking like a powerlifter.
In fact, keeping it ?80s, I looked strikingly similar to Rick Zumwalt in his prime. In hindsight, I really should have ordered that Blaster sleeveless t-shirt from the movie. Yes, ?80s movie fans, I’m making you Google that for a friendly competition of ?80s adoration in the comment section.
The experience of gaining that weight and not being able to lose it (probably because I gained weight, freaked out, and then stopped consistently doing what it takes to actually convince my set point to drop), really threw me. While I had done it intentionally, and done it in hopes of gaining insights into a way to more reliably help people lose fat without a compensatory drop in metabolic rate (and eventual rebound weight gain), I instead felt compelled to cower away from the health world in a dark corner, putting all of my mental energy into new endeavors so that I didn’t have to face my big fat failure.
But I of course never found the Metabolic Zone, as I was working so much that my health fell apart. I was regularly pulling all-nighters and attempting unusually cruel stunts in superhuman productivity such as starting three businesses at the same time. I suspect it was all one giant avoidance scheme, and I needed to avoid my emotions for sure, as gaining weight and losing your health is a hard thing to face, but it really hurts when it also takes away your passion in life. As you guys know, 180D, in its prime, was as strong of a passion as passions get.
However?
I throw out a big however because I have recently entered the elusive Metabolic Zone. Over the past few months of travelling I have slept more, worked less, simplified my business, reduced my stress, and I’ve eaten the most consistent ?normal? diet than I have maybe ever. I also seem to have consistently gotten the dose of exercise just right, whereas for many years I was oscillating between too little and too much, which is very antagonistic to weight loss.
It may be nothing to get too excited about. It could be just a return to my set point after gaining a little holiday weight followed up with stress relief’two things that can catapult one into the Metabolic Zone very easily. Or maybe I have a parasite from 3rd world travel, or I’m becoming a raging diabetic (you’d like that, wouldn’t you tater haters?). But I doubt it.
I’m pretty sure I’m fully, confidently there. I know this because I wasn’t losing weight until I dramatically INCREASED my calorie intake in mid-January. And now it’s like an on-off switch. I can turn it on by sleeping and eating a lot for several days, or I can quickly turn it off by staying out late and having a couple beers and/or working too much (things that make me feel horrible, they may not be triggers for you).
It’s just like the other time in my life I was in the Metabolic Zone without even knowing it. It was when I hit age 12 and my squatty, blubbery adolescent body completely transformed into a tall, lean, and sinewy young stud in less than a year without any attention to my diet or exercise levels at all. In fact, I was probably eating even more, as the year prior I had received some mis-educated doctor advice to ‘stop eating snacks? and was actively trying to cut back.
What’s Working for Me
Too early to tell, but what seems to work for me at the moment is eating calorie-dense meals and snacks very frequently. I eat three regular meals at consistent times every day (7:30, 12:30, and 6:30), but I also eat cookies right when I wake up, add at least another meal in there (usually at night, and usually a burger or pizza), eat cookies right before bed and whenever I happen to wake up during the night, and pound sugary drinks all day (orange juice, Gatorade, and soft drinks mostly, totaling 2 liters or more). Sleep, on a consistent schedule?and not working too much?are also completely essential. By ?work? I mean mental exertion of any kind.
And a small amount of exercise seems to work a lot better than none. I walk up about 100 vertical feet to my house twice a day, walk about a mile overall daily on otherwise easy terrain, and do a short (11-minute) circuit training routine in my room once every 10 days or so.
A few other things that are probably unrelated but could possibly be?factors include sunbathing a lot, sleeping in a house that doesn’t have internet (and thus rarely any exposure to screens after sunset), seeing more attractive women every day than I’m used to seeing in a year at home (testosterone boost?), being infinitely more social (I’ve made around 50 friends in the last 7 weeks compared to just a handful over the past five years), being surrounded by mostly lean people, and having everyone around me openly talk about how fat I am (it actually kinda helps to just have it out in the open).
Back on the Case
I apologize for wimping out and running away from failure. I’m honestly trying to participate in the discovery of a real breakthrough solution for the worldwide obesity issue, and I should have been a lot tougher mentally when facing it head on. It was, after all, THE WHOLE POINT of gaining it in the first place. No one has officially found the Metabolic Zone scientifically. Right now we’re operating on signs, evidence, rumors, logic, hearsay, and anecdotes. But I’m back in it, and back on it. I’ll be updating you with any news, progress, or setbacks along the way.
I’d love to hear about everyone’s experiences with both entering and aimlessly chasing the Metabolic Zone in the comments. Let’s keep making progress, together…
Thanks to you, I finally got to the place where I can eat what I want and stay at the same weight — which is about 15 or 20 pounds above “lean.” Was just gonna be happy staying there but now that I’ve read this, I’m inspired to eat more, sleep more and stress less!
Matt, After reading a bunch of your books and trying rrarfing (or whatever you call it now) I gained like 25lbs! I don’t even know if my metabolic rate has even improved much. I still don’t sleep amazingly, which is really my goal in life. I feel like I should just wait until I get pregnant again to really try this so I at least have an excuse to gain weight. Is that a terrible idea, haha? I have a 14 month old baby now.
Maybe I should just really go for it though. It’s just so much work to cook 3 huge meals a day though, not to mention eat it all! Do you cook all your meals??
I’m far from a know it all or even know it some but anything that alleviates your stress is beneficial with the pregnancy and as a parent of a 10 year old son myself I wish you all the best!
I am right there with you. And it’s depressing. I can’t even get my temperature to budge, and I’ve been trying for two years. I feel fat, flabby, and I am afraid to take it any further.
I can’t get my temperature to budge either!
I haven’t cooked a single bite of food since October.
What do you do for food then?
Ready made stuff?
I have a personal chef that makes all my meals for me for $25 a week, lol. Nicaragua for the win!
Glad to hear your in Nicaragua–for a minute, reading your daily activity made me think you were in prison camp.
where are you know? How is the progress on this journey to the optimal metabolic zone? Are you still doing this?
Wowsers!
found you through …well …ray peat which led me to Kate deering. I started eating enough finally. I’ve been a personal trainer 20 years, never overweight but always doing some crazy thing, intermittent fasting, then 6 years vegan, then keto. I’m 52 and was just tired of always counting calories. so 7 weeks ago, oh quit vegan a year ago, my hair was falling out and horrible teeth sensitivity, well 7 weeks ago I starting upping my calories slowly, I’m at 2500 now and gained seven pounds which freaks me out. So I was 5’4 117 pounds now 124. I’ve gotten my temp up from 95.6 to 98.7 but my pulse is staying at 55, ray peat says it should be resting at about 70. I’ve also for years had horrible insomnia, fall asleep fine but wake up 7 or 8 times a night. Just wanted your opinion and anything you could tell me. I’ve cut down my weight training this week from 5 days to 3 and stopped crazy cardio years ago. I didn’t see anything on your blog’s on pulse . I’m also hypothyroid since 1993 taking synthroid and cytomil. Im also scared of all these calories, am I going to get bigger and bigger, hee!!! Thanks for everything. Worst part is the lack of sleep and hair loss.
Matt my name is Anthony R. Calvanico aka Cal. I’m
a former college football and a 48 retired NYPD officer. I have been training for over 30 years and I’ve gone from a shredded teen to puffy college athlete to a fat cop to a shredded cop to a fairly fit retiree to an obese man today who still lifts heavy and to many I don’t look obese. I’ve done the zone by Barry Sears. The typical low fat caloric restrictive high boring cardio life to the extreme paleo advice from the infamous yet moronic Chris Kiwi. Ever since reading your blogs I’ve been on a journey back to recovery. I too am human and have shied away from the people and circles I’ve preached to. I thought about maybe I was wrong or I should just go back to what truly thought worked but that’s exactly what got me into this predicament to begin with. I was always around 200lbs then up to 268 then down to 198 then back up to 260 then down to 229 now at an all time high of 294 but guess what? My set point was hit. I’m now 287lbs and I lift heavy complex movements 3 times a week for about an hour. I do deadlifts, low bar squats and bench press. Sets of 5 with plenty of rest in between. I eat basically whatever I want but I still buy quality foods but I make sure I include the infamous junk food as well. I sleep better and although my libido has never been an issue it’s actually getting even better. I want you to know that you’re on to something and have been for a while now. You’ve given people back their sanity along with their emotional and physical health! I’m in the metabolic zone right now and I eat 3 meals a day until I’m really full and satisfied along with a couple of snacks like real ice cream, homemade cookies and chips. I drink tons of sports drinks and some Coca Cola made in Mexico with real can sugar. I cook all the time and I’m excellent at it and I enjoy my traditional Italian American Sunday sauce with macaroni, meatballs, fresh mozzarella and fresh Italian bread. Thanks Matt! As corny as that may sound I’m a tough guy giving props. I appreciate all you have done and look forward to all the things you will be doing!
Thanks for telling us all about your meatballs!
Wow, college must have been tough for you LOL
hahaha – I finally got the joke. :-)
?? Thanks for sharing. I’ve been with you since 2010 and will keep listening! I have a ways to go myself, but am so much further along than I was.
Thank you Matt, your recommendations helped me end my obsession with dieting, also learning natural self control around my favorite food, which is priceless. Being hyperinsulinic, LCHF makes me feel much better and intermittent fast is helping me loose weight almost effortless. I wish your new discovery helps you get to where you want!
Intermittent fasting helped me effortlessly lose fat fast too. The most amazing thing though was how effortlessly and quickly I was able to gain 3X the weight I lost after quitting intermittent fasting!
Oh yeah. Matt Stone is back! Keep up the great work. Every great artist needs moments of inner turmoil to spark the drive to create their greatest works. Way to make a comeback!
Thanks Adam. “Artist” is probably an overstatement, but I was walking around with my chin up a little higher after this comment for sure, haha.
My story outline.
From probably around 145 lb or less, started re-feeding, didn’t want anything by high calorie dense foods. Vegetables didn’t look like food. Meat was only minimally interesting. I didn’t eat any really true junk food to speak of. No artificial ingredients or crap like that.
Gained to 208, maybe 210 tops, but had to push to get that high. I overfed in spite of my bodies protestations like acid reflux and not being very interested in food.
After at least an extra month of overfeeding, mabe two, I went to eating whatever and how-much-ever I felt like and pretty much instantly dropped to just over 200 lb.
Over the course of the next couple/few years through mostly emotionally stressful times (being now one of “them”, the fat people, didn’t help, but I fearlessly stuck with the experiment) I would lose weight spontaneously every 2 to 4 months or something like that. Not on a schedule or anything, but spaced out pretty much like that. Drops in body weight were usually 2 to 4 pounds, with 3 probably being average. That pattern is very clear. I ate all kinds of stuff. For a while I was into soda, several a day (organic stuff) but then I kept opening them and they’d go flat in the fridge. The appeal was gone. Some periods I ate more starch and some almost none since I have chronic digestive problems and have lost more and more foods, and have had to experiment a lot, going on and off stuff and starting again, starch, wheat, potatoes, dairy, etc… Through none of all those changes, including eating much less than I wanted to at times (I try to actually maintain a high calorie intake, above what I think my BMR would require) I never regained weight, only lost and the losses rarely seemed to be associated with anything but the occasional general improvements in my health that I would experience for short times. The losses were always small, always happened fast, and always stuck.
There were at least three times that I lost weight spontaneously that actually seemed like they could be related to something diet wise. Only one was calorie restriction. I have had to quit eating a lot to reset my gut, usually for less than two days and my weight never changes in spite of that. One time with a pretty strict 3 day fast on broth with extremely low calories, I had a weight loss episode. The weight did not come back. I remember two others for sure. One of them I was eating a lot of ice cream, like a couple of pints a day, more or less on top of my regular meals and suddenly noticed I had lost a few pounds. Another was recently when I went on a binge eating coconut sugar. I have been having such bad problems with my gut that I would get down to eating basically just meat, sugars and straight fats. I was ripping through pounds of straight coconut sugar, or eaten with a stick of butter (yes sometimes a stick of butter in one hand and a sugar spoon in the other!) I was doing that daily and again I noticed that I lost weight. I think there was one more episode like this, but I’m forgetting right now. After that last one I had thought a lot about doing an experiment to see If I’d drop any more body fat if I basically over-ate sugar. I never did it, but now I’m thinking about it again :) After recent experience, It is hard for me to imagine what it would take for me to eat enough to gain body fat and I’m inclined to think that I am indeed in your metabolic zone, both fat proof and probably able to lose by eating an excess, especially sugars. I just turned 50.
I don’t take my temp anymore, and I don’t stay as warm as I did right after refeeding, but then my body weight was the lowest in my life when I was the coldest. at this point. I think I would be somewhat concerned if I lost another 10 pounds of body fat, but could probably live with losing another 5, though it is not a goal in the least. I now weight 160ish I was as low as 125 at one point totally emaciated eating regular full meals and consistently very low temps. There’s a wrench in the gears for ya. My weight seems to be pretty rock solid once it resets and the resets are so fast that I don’t even see them happen. I’ve seen that with other people to. Body fat can come of blazingly fast.
As far as I’m concerned, I’m a refeeding success story. It far from fixed all my health problems and I’m still struggling, but I have made major permanent improvements too and feel strongly that refeeding and regluarizing my body temp and metabolism helped lay a foundation for those improvements.
I also think that there are going to be strategies discovered that will either help people lose body fat and regularize metabolism either without refeeding, or post refeeding. My guess is that among multiple strategies some will work for certain people and others won’t and for some nothing will work. But weight set point theory is where it’s at and anyone in this arena of study not taking that into account are probably not going to get much of anywhere, at least not anywhere near that grail of self regulating body fat levels (even if we find a way to set the thermostat). I went the eat and pray route and it worked. I was heartbroken, stressed, miserable and depressed much of the time, not sleeping well often, inflamed and generally sick a lot with highly varying diet, but it worked anyway. I think I would have lost faster if I had been a healthier person. I also think there are things I could have done. I suspect I could fast, even now, for a few days drop a few and then go back to eating normally without regaining,, though at some point that will not be true probably because I’ll be too low in body fat. The sugar experiment sounds funner. I for one and a believer in the metabolic zone.
One last point. I think everyone with persistent weight, stuck low metabolism/hypothyroidism and or health problems should be looking into detoxification strategies and at least give it a shot. We know that all kinds of crap we are exposed to are endocrine disruptors and we have no idea what the synergy is when you pile them up. And there is an obvious epidemic of endocrine disruption and I don’t think it’s just from modern eating habits and dieting. Once total health and detoxification are compromised, we probably detox more slowly. Also, some people are probably much slower de-toxers than others. Christopher Shade seems to be the smartest guy in the room for detox. If you can absorb this lecture in one sitting, you’re a lot fucking smarter than me. The Human Detoxification System: https://youtu.be/gITuONNWWK8 BTW, most of his products are probably not necessary. I think the IMD and clearway cofactors are probably the essential ones. Iodine is also worth looking into.
It’s great to hear from you again, Matt! The stress of working on multiple projects seems to have given you first hand experience at how bad stress can be for sleep and weight. The unrelenting societal pressure (on women, in particular) to be thin actually is what creates weight issues with chronic dieting and only eating “clean”.
I can maintain my weight, no matter what I eat; but dropping any weight (although I will not get on a scale, my jeans are more accurate) seems to be elusive at my tender age (mid 60’s).
My stress relief is in the form of “accepting what is” – even if it isn’t the body I would choose. Exercise is still about enjoying playing tennis, yoga and other activities, but definitely no “over-doing”.
It’s really hard to work with people who are dying to lose weight (almost literally)and will do anything- as long as it’s “eat less (of something) and exercise more” – and ignoring the impact of stress on their metabolism. Did that for decades and now I’m a heavier person who has learned what dieting will do to your body and your health, trying to keep others from falling in that hole!
I’m looking forward to following your new Metabolic Zone journey. (has your mom tried it?)
No, I gained weight refeeding and my whole family turned into Jillian Michaels. It was nuts.
And yeah, INSANE how working really hard mentally can totally ruin your health. I had no idea. I thought “stress” was mostly just bad emotions. Like Schwarzbein says, “being busy is a stress.”
I’ve gained lots of weight after having my last child (who is now 2) eating plenty of food has not given me a better metabolic rate or helped me to sleep well.
I think it’s all the emotions we attach to food that’s a big part of the problem. We don’t treat food like food anymore. “I deserve this donut” “Ive earnt this chocolate bar” “I’m never going to loose enough weight so I’m going to binge” “I’m tired so I’m going to eat more” “I’m not going to eat “insert ‘evil’ food here” ever again so that I can feel good about myself and feel in control.
I think your books help a lot with addressing that. I certainly will NEVER go on a diet again thanks to reading them.
But I personally believe that when we give ourselves no restraints we do dumb things. That “do what thou want” mantra that celebrities seem to like is complete garbage. The world is bad enough without everyone following that idea. And I think overeating, and the idea that if I want it I should have it no matter what is detrimental to ourselves.
I completely agree with giving up on the health unicorn. Our lives are about so much more than eating and drinking!! I know a lady who had been anorexic decades ago and needs to sometimes remind herself to eat properly so as not to fall back into obsessiveness. I think that is the same with me but on the opposite side of things. I will always need to stay aware that I don’t fall back into overeating. I don’t want food to have control over me, but to enjoy my meals, be reasonable and get on with life.
As always, easier said than done :-)
Thanks for this. It is so intriguing and such a relief to hear of your doubt and struggle and preserverence even when it could have been tempting to jump back on the insane fitness train. For what it’s worth, I think the fact that you were willing to gain weight and did and kept living your life, makes you more approachable and worth listening to. People who are struggling don’t need to hear from “perfect” physical specimens with all “right” information. ANYWAY…
I have a suspicion that I was in the metabolic zone when I hit puberty at age 11. I had been a chubby kid and suddenly the summer before I turned 12, I was lean. Much like what you experienced. I also think I was in the zone immediately after having my baby almost 2 yrs. ago. Within 2 weeks I was pretty much back to my prepregnancy weight, but of course I thought I needed to be leaner so I pushed too hard and kept binging and maybe slowed things down.
A friend if mine also speaks of time when she stopped trying to control her body, started eating full fat dairy and then dropped weight without thinking about it.
I really think there is something to it. I’m trying to be brave enough to take the leap and keep eating to see
What happens. Maybe part of the equation though is not trying or hoping too hard to get in the zone because that, in itself, is stressful.
Yeah exactly. It’s like giving up on The Metabolic Zone is what got me into the Metabolic Zone, lol. It happened when I wasn’t even thinking about it much at all.
I actually had this happen to me, for about a month, over Christmas. I was eating a ton, and yet spontaneously lost about 3-4 inches from my belly, and feeling a lot better — much more social, focused at work, actual energy, aches and pains went away, etc. But I didn’t figure out exactly what it was, for sure, and it’s gone away again.
And I know that it’s not *just* eating and sleeping more, because I’ve been eating and sleeping plenty for the past 5 years. I also know that I’ve had stress-free periods in my life where I still felt like garbage, and also had very stressful times that I easily handled. And so I tend to think it’s more that a healthy person can tolerate daily stress more easily (within limits).
And so I’ve very keen to hear anything else that you might be doing differently. In particular, some of the things you mentioned are interesting to me:
* Sunbathing: I have a UVB lamp (D/UV-F) I was using before Christmas a fair bit. I’ve also done this in the past with no benefit, and anecdotally noticed that there are lots of fat people in sun-drenched areas, so I don’t think it’s the “answer”, but perhaps UVB exposure is a contributor. I have read that there are photoproducts from UVB beyond just D3. I’ve also done this while grounded (aka earthed) for extra weirdo points.
* No internet: Would you say that in general your internet usage is down, or just before sleep? I have tried experiments that I call “No Idle Activities” before, where I disallow all addictive time-wasting activities that tickle the brain, like web browsing and TV watching. I’d just kinda sit there for hours, but usually after a few days I’d start to do productive things. But then it usually falls apart after a few more days with the return of crushing fatigue. So, I’m not sure how the causality runs on this one (I might only do the no-idle experiments when I’m feeling better and have more energy).
* Any diet changes? Obviously, it doesn’t sound like too much, but think about it. For example, over Christmas I was eating a ton of shellfish, so I thought maybe there’s something there. But my attempts to replicate it by eating 10 pounds of shrimp over a week didn’t work, so who knows. I also ate a lot of nuts (mostly walnuts and pistachios, some brazil nuts).
The different food mix got me thinking about micronutrients again. Perhaps one of the reasons that seafood is generally healthier than land-based food is that it contains a different mix of nutrients. For example, if you look at the product Concentrace, it has fairly high amounts of both Boron and Lithium — two elements that don’t get much press.
So I’m trying a Lithium (5-10mg/day) and Boron (3mg) experiment right now. But with your post as motivation, I think I’ll re-add the grounded UVB, and maybe start doing walks around the neighborhood again.
So, anything else that might be different?
Well I’m getting more exercise dodging prostitutes in the street now. The guys dressed up like chicks that try to steal wallets while running up to guys by themselves and grabbing them by the dick in particular keep me ducking and dodging.
Seriously though, not much. I think the heat, being in another country, and lowered financial stress are the main keys. 4 hours of total screen time per day on average is another huge key.
Oh, and btw, good to see you post again.
Believe me, I understand the frustration. I’m as sure now as ever that a) almost no one in the US is really healthy, and b) being healthy is reasonably easy, if we just knew exactly what triggered it.
So it annoys me to no end that I can’t figure it out.
I’m still chasing the elusive answer as well. I’ve followed all the steps – my temperatures are good, I’m warm, I pee yellow, I eat plenty, I sleep a lot, and my stress is pretty low. I don’t even have to commute from work, just stumble across the hall to my home office each morning.
I’ve even gone ahead and added in carbs even though my blood sugar jacks up until I literally cannot see (my eye doctor scolded me and wants me to have my doctor put me on insulin), and I feel like crap for a couple hours after each meal, sometimes with massive anxiety attacks. The reintroduction of grains, starches, and sugars has me running to the bathroom within an hour after eating – I should probably buy stock in Poo-Pourri cause I’m going through it by the gallon. I’ve gained almost 20 pounds now, and have crossed back into obese territory – next stop, MORBID obesity!
But yeah, the weight will start coming off annnnnny minute now. Right? I’m trusting your word on this, following it to the letter … this won’t kill me, or make me sick. I just have to trust the program.
Lissa, why are you overfeeding, why are your stress hormones so elevated (that’s probably why you have episodes of high blood sugar after eating, I get the same when I work too much, especially on the computer), and what is your past?
Matt, I totally get what you’re saying. And I’ve also have read Billy Craigs article about him eating 6000 calories and losing weight. However what can you say about this video of this girl who pushes herself to gain and gain and gain more weight eating tons of calories everyday. There are several people like this on YouTube who eat copious amounts of calories because they want to be extremely large but they don’t seem to look emaciated like Billy Craigs or ever loose weight. How do you and Billy Craig lose weight eating copious amounts of calories but these people seem to only gain weight? Just trying to make sense of things. Thanks See video: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=0W2yMpjSr48
Rachel, I have the same question. My head is spinning.
Yeah I don’t really get that either. I hardly ever encounter anyone that can keep gaining relentlessly like that. It’s almost impossible as the body fights back against weight loss so hard. Of course, in the video she’s probably exaggerating things, she’s not 600 pounds and stuck in her house, she looks like she’s having to tube-feed herself and nearly gagged after, etc. etc. I mean, I couldn’t eat like that for one day no matter how hard I tried. I predict she gives up in a couple of years and loses weight at lightning speed and makes even more money selling her diet secrets.
Billy Craig also has an article on how to gain weight like a Sumo wrestler. There are cultures, too, which value bigger women and feed their young girls to gain weight. Both of these systems involve feeding people beyond what they would ever want to eat “normally”, “intuitively”, etc. When people are overweight without forced feeding, it always involves the body’s protective hormone mechanism, ensuring against a future famine. Trim people fall into three categories: 1. The accidental under eater or starving person who is either poor or the victim of war or abuse or, 2. The person with some variety of eating disorder who is applying their intellect and “will” to food intake. Their overwrought will enables them to ignore their body’s hunger signals until the body stops giving hunger signals to conserve energy, or because of “bingeing”, which is just a word for finally giving the body what it needs, the hunger signals stay active because of the tantalizing food availability which the body is not allowed to fully utilize because of the purging. These behaviors are begun by a thought: “I need to be thinner.” 3. A person entertains no thought of weight loss or looks at any food as “bad”. They truly eat what they want, as much as they want, in a truly consistent manner.
Anyone who has really been starved or had an eating disorder and has overcome it knows it takes commitment to get from 1 and 2 to 3. Read about the Minnesota Starvation Experiment.
Other than the above mentioned overweight people, everyone else is inconsistently eating. To those who say they eat plenty but are still overweight, I say what Billy Craig says, “No you’re not.” You are eating one day and “being good” the next. Period.
The answer is simple: Billy Craig is a fraud, as is anybody who tells you can eat more calories than you burn in a day and lose weight. All these type of people want is your attention, your money, or both.
The truth is right in front of you, do not suffer from cogentive dissonance from worthless hucksters.
Neither Billy nor I are saying that you can eat more calories than you burn in a day. Neither of us have much financial interest in this field at all either. We’re both basically hobbyists at this point. I post once a year and check comments once every couple of weeks.
We’re just saying that this calorie deficit cannot be forced if you seek to lose weight without negative metabolic consequences–that it has to be initiated by the body itself by the involuntary weight regulation systems of the body. If it isn’t, your metabolism will adjust. Your body will be working against the weight loss and working towards rebound weight gain.
This is common knowledge. While our experiments with activating those changes via overfeeding may prove to be futile and ineffective for the majority, what we’re after is no different than what real obesity researchers are after.
Thanks for the response, Matt. I have always enjoyed and supported your work, all the way back to when I called myself “DML”.
I essentially agree with your explanation you just gave here.
Oh, and by the way, I think you are just as “real” an obesity researcher as any of the others. Science is essentially observation and experiment, which is precisely what you do.
Thanks ol’ DML. :)
Ray Peat once remarked that a body is at it’s healthiest when it is burning calories wastefully, but not even he will go so far as to recommend eating so many calories as Billy Craig once ate. But, Billy Craig is correct. You can speed up your metabolism (the rate at which your body burns calories) by eating a great many of them. Anyone undereating calories will not be well because the body needs energy to remodel itself constantly, which Ray Peat has also said. A well fed body that doesn’t need to store excess calories because of a steady stream of available calories, will use up or waste that energy however it can and it won’t store it. That’s physiology.
I think a lot of this has to do with stress management and loving and accepting yourself. I think diets and diet mentality are a form of self hatred, believing you are not good enough the way you are which of course leads to all sorts of abuse of the body in attempts to alter it which we all know doesn’t work in the end. It sounds like you have lowered your stress Matt and that you are enjoying your life! This metabolism effect happened to me during my fourth pregnancy. After reading 180D and your books Matt, after years of yo-yo dieting I began to eat for heat and gained probably 40 pounds. Then I got pregnant and was very worried because my previous 3 pregnancies I gained 40-60 pounds each. But lo and behold, this time I ate whatever I wanted and ended up weighing 10
pounds less the end of the pregnancy than when I started! Unfortunately I don’t know what happened after because I gained 20 pounds during postpartum period! Oh well. That feeling of eating what you want and losing weight is amazing!
Losing weight during pregnancy! That’s some Metabolic Zone badassery right there!
How are you doing health-wise eating this way? Are you making the “junk” foods using your own ingredients or are you buying ready to eat, processed foods? Is this an intuitive approach or following some rules like Ray Peat or the guidelines in “Eat for Heat”?
I’m eating the shittiest things ever, more or less. I haven’t made a morsel of food for my own consumption since October. My health has improved considerably, especially since the beginning of this year. The biggest key has nothing to do with food, and has much more to do with not working. The less I work, the better I feel, and vice versa.
“The less I work, the better I feel, and vice versa.”
Great quote. I’m sure most people can relate. If only we didn’t have to buy food and pay rent and utilities.
Technically, no one has to do those things. Of course, culturally it seems like we do, but we don’t. It’s helped me a lot to go to a country where I need 90% less money to feed, cloth, and house myself.
There are also endless ways to make more money in less time, but few pursue that. If people put as much effort into that as they do their standard careers, they’d find it’s not too hard.
I know someone who dumpster dives, goes to soup kitchens, or food banks, or food stamps. He never pays money for food. He also has an electric car and can charge it free around town. And gets clothes free from students who just throw them away.
Oh Matt…You can only say that because you have the benifit of coming from a country where REAL WAGE RATES are more than 5x higher.
Also, if literally everybody did what you’re doing, guess what? It would drive prices up. Simple economics.
Lol. I can say that because I worked really hard to achieve specifically what I’ve achieved. That was what I wanted to do, so I worked at it relentlessly until I got there.
Also, fuck economics.
I’m glad you achieved your goal. And I definitely believe you have worked hard. I have followed your blog for years, and only someone who is driven and hard working could have achieved the output (number of blog posts) you did at various points.
However, I believe context is always important, and there is definetly a monetary advantage in living and earning wealth in a very wealthy country, and taking that earned wealth and moving to a much poorer country with much, much lower wages and prices.
Absolutely. No one understands those advantages more than I. Few in the developed nations are aiming for that however.
In the past I worked to save money and then travelled to cheaper countries or just went out into the woods to hike and camp inexpensively. I did that about 6 months on and 6 months off.
When I got tired of that, I promised that I wouldn’t leave the country again until I had found a way to make more money than I spent while I was gone. So I worked on something internet-based.
But I fell far more in love with researching and writing about health than any travels or recreation I had ever done. I was productive because I was obsessed. I wrote about this in a book called Goals Suck. Mentioning “passion” in a prior comment, I suspect you’d like that one.
Passion or not, I did still run into serious negative health consequences from being so obsessed. There’s a very fine line between doing something you love and having something you love take you over in a pathological way, especially when that something involves spending most of the day sitting in front of a computer screen.
I feel better when I work and am productive. The more I work, the better I feel. I hate being a lazy ass who whines about how poorly work makes me feel, that is sign of no passion and being in a the wrong line of work. Don’t blame work, blame your lack of passion and not being in the right field.
Shut the fuck up asshole. I got very ill by being overly passionate and productive. It’s a serious cultural illness that we’ve made everyone feel inadequate if they aren’t busting their ass all the time. Or if they aren’t “following their passion.”
Take it easy, Matt. Just because I am strongly expressing a view doesn’t mean I am acorning you. There is definitely a balance to be mindful of when it comes to “work” and “following your passions” and I was merely expressing the opposite view in order to keep people mindful of that balance. If that, and the fact that I am happier when I am more productive so work I enjoy makes me an “asshole”, so be it. I frankly consider the label an honor in this context.
Also, I think we are living a decaying culture that scorns people more and more for enjoying productive work. This is especially true in formal institutions of learning such all way from primary school to university
*scorning* not “acorning”
Amen, brother. I hope you’re feeling better, these days. I’m glad you still occasionally check-in on the blog. I miss your twisted sense of humor.
I was one of the people that lost fat after gaining weight. I have been the same weight now for three years. It wasn’t hard for me to begin to lose fat (as opposed to weight), but I really listened to my body and only did things as I felt comfortable. At first, I couldn’t exercise much. I kept a log of my workouts and it is interesting that back then I would workout maybe once or twice a week. Now I sometimes can workout 4 or more times a week, but I don’t do strenuous exercise. I felt strongly that I wanted to do an old lady workout and really stretch my whole body and I came across Classical Stretch. It’s made a huge difference in how I feel and I actually look forward to working out with Miranda. It just makes me feel good and energized. Other than that I walk my dog everyday which again isn’t strenuous. I am not forcing myself to power walk or anything like this. I just walk. The last thing is that I made it a habit to fall asleep at the same time and wake up at the same time pretty much everyday. It is the same for my meals. I actually eat big meals every four hours and sometimes have snacks. It just depends on whether I am more hungry or not that day for whatever reason. I never care to know. I am hungry I eat. I am sleepy I sleep. I don’t think much or fight against what my body wants. That to me was probably the biggest thing. All these things are now just habit for me since I’ve been doing it for 4 years. It seems that once you make something a habit your body just then knows what to do with it. Consistency was the main thing for me. I am glad you are doing well! Don’t be discouraged.
Consistency rules for sure. Thanks so much for the comment Lizzy. This is exactly the right attitude and approach I think, and what many browsing through these comments need to hear from an experienced pro like yourself :)
I hope you find your unicorn, Matt. All that happened for me when eating without restrictions is that I got super-damn-fat.
But I seem to have found a different unicorn. We’ll know in a few more years…
peace,
FBD
p.s. Sunbathing is probably 40% of it, IMO.
Yeah I wonder how much is the sunbathing and how much is just the heat in general. I’ve intentionally avoided using a fan and sometimes will even take naps in 86-87 degrees with no fan and no breeze and wake up completely sweaty (and feeling incredible). Leanness is an adaptation to excess heat for sure. Interesting though that it only seems to be triggered by big calorie surges though. I still think that’s probably the main factor, and these other peripheral factors are just helpers.
I would guess that it’s more state of mind related than anything. I also think it goes beyond simply “reducing stress” and is more a phenomenon of the body following the lead of the psyche. Eliminating stress is one thing but that doesn’t necessarily guarantee contentment, peace, or happiness.
Finding the sweet place in life where you’re challenged, stimulated and successful going after something that juices you as opposed to spending time with uninspiring drudgery is key. It’s as if,when you’re thriving, your body says, “ok let’s go!” and morphs into a vibrant expression of life. And conversely, if you’re in a miserable, uninspired, bored or depressed state of mind your body says, “welp, this sucks so we may as well start breaking camp” and everything starts going to seed.
So maybe the metabolism gets in the zone when our lives get in the zone.
What you’re saying is more or less where I’ve arrived after years of searching for the ever elusive unicorn. Health is a culmination of factors, including diet, sleep, exercise, stress of course.. but most overlooked and probably most important are the mind, and overall life circumstances like you describe. Though stress is a factor, it’s not simply about managing stress. It’s your thoughts, beliefs, emotions, actions, experiences – past, present, and future. Mind and body are one and the same, and everything in your life affects your mind, which also affects your body; and does so in such a way that is more tangible and immediate than we might consider. The Divided Mind and Psycho-cybernetics are two books that have been pushing my thinking in this direction lately. The latter is more of a self-help book, but can be applied to health, and is certainly relevant in conjunction with The Divided Mind.
Totally agree Steve. I think that’s a mandatory prerequisite to getting in the zone for sure. Like I said though, I seem to only get in the zone when I plow the shit out of some food in addition to that. So I think a steady, abundant supply of calories day (and night) for a consistent time is also a very important factor in conditioning the body to lower its set point. That’s the original theory behind what convinced Billy Craig to go on his weight set point lowering adventure, and I think it’s sound logic. The body fights what you try to make it do. Fight it to lose weight and it ramps up its weight-gaining systems. Try to force it to gain weight and it ramps up the weight-losing systems.
Our bodies are keeping us alive. Starve it half the time and occasionally provide the calories it needs, and it will store those calories for future needs. Give it a lot of calories all the time, following it’s indications of what it wants, and convince the body there is no reason to store. Healthy people throughout time have been doing this without becoming obese, with no knowledge of calories and specific nutrients. The biggest stress our bodies ever experience is the day in day out underfeeding we’ve all been brainwashed by our culture to do. If we feed our bodies, we can better handle every other stress.
I’ve cogitated on the unicorn for a few years and it seems to me that one of the factors is detoxing first, eg eating green and clean over a period of time and then eating high calorie nutrient dense whole foods after that. Danielle in her book “Have your cake and eat it too” went raw vegetarian before she ate heaps and lost the weight but she doesn’t mention it as a factor probably because she wasn’t healthy on the rabbit food diet. And I don’t think everyone cleanses first but it probably depends how toxic you are to start with. I know just clean eating doesn’t do it because I’ve been doing that for years and still have my baby weight. But now I am detoxing with Lifewave homeopathic patches (the 5 Day detox but over 2 weeks, worked out by my vibrational therapist who uses kinesiology to find out what I really need) including hot yoga 3 times a week and for 3 weeks afterwards as she worked out. The 5 day detox alone is reputed to lose you 2 to 3 kg. You need to drink a lot while detoxing though or you could have skin break outs or get sick from toxins circulating in the blood. However I keep my Himalayan salt intake high as usual and take a lot of Scheusslers tissue salts Nat Sulph for water elimination. Just in the early stages but as a busy mum I still struggle to get enough sleep so I hope I’m not wasting my time and money here!
Glad to see you back!
What do you think about the issue of high blood sugar for people when they re-feed? For example: someone who restricted for many years, then moved to what could be called quasi-recovery, and then tried to re-feed. If the person developed high blood sugar/pre-diabetes during quasi, and still has high blood sugar issues as she re-feeds with even more calories… what is a possible solution here?
I don’t think that really needs a solution, it’s probably just something that needs to be worked through. Lots of people develop higher blood sugar, blood pressure, belly fat etc. in the beginning, but it all gets resolved over time in most. I can’t definitely say what you should do, but if it were me I’d probably just focus on chilling out, eating well, and sleeping really well, as always.
What is the affect of using substances like t3 (cytomel) and metformin on producing a higher metabolic rate? Isn’t the point of raising your metabolism through copious amounts of food to boost thyroid function? Wouldn’t it be possible to do this with using thyroid meds, without having to eat such a large quantity of food?
Sure, maybe. I’ve always looked at taking supplemental drugs as a great way to lower your endogenous production. So I think that may be setting up for lifelong dependence.
Matt do you think hypothyroidism can be reversed through increased energy intake, stress reduction and sleep? I feel like a zombie if I don’t have my thyroid meds. But I’m “underfat” and currently have no cycle either. I eat an ad libidum ketogenic diet, don’t limit calories, am pretty active with lots of lean body mass, and my thyroid function is suppressed. I don’t like how I feel eating lots of carbs, is it possible to increase metabolic rate eating high fat and lower carb?
I’m glad to see you back and offering up an honest account of how hard it is to be the “health nut” in your circles and gain so much weight in search of health. I’m there and it’s rough, but I have fought hard not to slide backwards into extreme restriction. I suspect I’m still needing to hit my high point, and I’ve not allowed myself to really eat enough to get there so I can get back down, but I’m also trying to manage the stress of being ok with the quality of what I eat. If I stress about it, I don’t suppose the calories will do me much good. Though I’ve had times in the last few months where I started to feel inexplicably lighter, not as puffy fat. I’m sure hormone related as I’m also struggling with estrogen, but part of what is working for me is to eat well, with a healthy liver as a goal, and when I’m really on with that, everything seems to get better and the high calories seem to be put to good use rather than stresing out my body. When my liver is a focus, my sleep is better, my BMs are amazing and I am much more calm and resilient, and those are the times I don’t feel like I’m still gaining, though I’m still not willing to look for weight loss and be disappointed. I look forward to hearing more from you. I know I need to eat more still, my gut tells me to just be brave and do it, and it’s always been helpful to get that reinforcement from you and the lovely people that still follow along and comment. Thank you!
Thanks Courtney. I’ll keep fighting the good fight. Hopefully you’ll have more little sparks that give you the confidence to just commit to it fully. I think doing this halfass is a good way to become a fatass.
I prefer Costco pizza because of the taste and price $10 for an 18″ pizza in their food court or $2 for a 1/6 pie slice. Also the ingredients are better with palm and olive oil the main oils;
soybean oil way down the list unlike typical chain pizza or grocery brand. They can make veggie pizza but you have to special order it 15 min ahead. That has Like 30-40% less calories & I prefer that or cheese rather than the pork meat which are on their others. I eat their cheese and combo pizzas all the time, look & feel good and sleep well. I occasionally get a pepperoni slice or get togethwr worn friends to split a veggie pizza. Everyone that I know seems to prefer veggie. You’d think there would be enough demand to sell it by the slice. After all they do have salads for “healthy” eaters. A lot of people would rather save a couple hundred calories on their pizza. It’s a no-brainer move but they don’t even advertise veggie pizza on their menu board. They gave out cards that told about that months ago but they don’t even advertise that they make it now.
Hi Matt! The metabolic zone is the best. I would say my body did this after having my baby. I dropped 37 lbs in 3 weeks after delivery, although I only gained 30 lbs. Throughout my pregnancy I was obsessed with maintaining a minimum waking body temperature of 98.0. I would sleep or eat more if the temperature dropped. I did the same following my child’s arrival. i was pretty pleased to be so lean so quickly.
Hey Matt, I’ve been following eat for heat for about two months now, and so far a lot of things are improving dramatically.
I’m a 20yrs old male, 5’8″, and since my early childhood, I was a bit overweight and suffered being told that I “just” ate too much, although I was “just” enjoying the food. My weight peaked around 213lbs during the first year of the college, and this time I thought it was caused by overconsumption of foods (though now I blame it on the poor sleep quality since high school and guzzling down ridiculous amounts of coffee and diet sodas during the night). Since then, I began my 2 years of “dieting”, starting out with eating only a bowl of salad with some tunas in the evening while fasted for the first half of the day. On top of that, I did tons of cardio, running about 7 miles daily, finishing them off by 90 mins of boxing 3 times per week. My weight dropped drastically, reaching somewhere around 165lbs just in two months. Obviously, these messed up my overall health, leaving me with a “skinny-fat” physique. After that, I ate normally, just with lower consumption of carbs for three months, and started bulking with moderate amounts of lifting. With strict calorie and macro nutrient calculation, I gained weight consistently until the point I was scared that I was gaining it too fast regardless of the calorie intake. I started my second attempt to lose weight this time by reducing about 500kcal from my supposed maintenance for 9 months, adding Intermittent fasting in the second half of the process (also don’t forget the “healthy” omega-6 and omega-3!). Although I reached the 132lbs range with 10% body fat, I suffered the symptoms of low metabolism, such as low sex drive, freezing hands and feet, brain fogs, and constipation with atrophied muscle mass. I realized this entire process was disastrous when my hands turned pale and the fingernails got blue while walking in the freezing morning (also fasted with a huge cup of black coffee in my hand).
I searched for the solution and found your blog along with a few other specialists, such as Ray Peat. Since many of them preached the importance of the body temperature, I immediately took mine, and found out I was around 95. Though I was planning to lean bulk with IF, I immediately ditched it, dramatically increased my caloric intake, and focused on the 4s (sugar, starch, salt and saturated fat)while staying away from vegetable oils. It is very relieving to hear eating as much as I want does not cause health disorders like the mainstream says. I also tried to sleep more and got involved in personally enjoyable gravity-oriented activities with such as calisthenics. As you said in one of your videos on YouTube, I also believe taking advantage of gravity is crucial to improving your overall body composition along with health.
Fast forward to today, my weight went up from 132 to 172lbs in two months, with a current body temperature of 96.4. Cravings got much less, sex drive came back, and anxiety faded away. I got a bit flabby around my abdomen as I expected, but people around me often get surprised how masculine I appear now. Additionally, I somewhat look sharper though I gained some fat around my face!
Anyways, I really want to thank you for putting a lot of effort to helping others who are having the similar issues. I understand it can be discouraging to gain tons of weight although it may be an initial process. Also, glad to hear that you are finally reaching the “metabolic zone” and losing fat at last. You truly changed my life 180 degrees.
Best,
Juan
Thanks for sharing Juan! Yes, I see a bright, muscular, masculine, effortless future for you young man. :)
Dang Matt, tou got up to 240? What are you sitting at now? Also didnt you say in your last post that you were undereating by quite a bit in your travels? Maybe your just now catching back up.
Im one of the few that hit the elusive metabolic zone. I have seemingly hit the diet jackpot by reversing hypothyroidism, losing 50lbs, getting down to ideal weight at 165 at 5’11 and maintaining really good muscle mass without any official exercise. Also the rest that goes along with it (libido, temp, euphoric optimism). Going on 2 years now of eating everything and staying near 6 pack lean. It was a very weird and long journey of experimentation that got me there and the trigger that really set off the weight loss coincided with a dramatic uptick in metabolism, almost exactly like a breastfeeding mother.
Anyway, good luck, Matt. You were one of the first to actually offer help to me and ill alwayd be greatful for that!
I think I’m right around 250. I’ve been there for 3 years now with 3 dips to 240 followed by spikes to 260 induced by trying some dumb new idea I had, with effortless gravitation back to 250 right after returning to normal eating consistently for a couple months.
Good to hear from you man. I hope I’m right behind you in the metabolic zone department.
If anyone is interested, i have a thread going at raypeatforums.org talking about what worked for me.
Hi Zach, Went browsing on Ray Pete forum really curious about your journey, but couldn’t find anything. Can you help me find you?
Think I found him here: http://raypeatforums.org/showthread.php'tid=118
Hello, Zach:
Congratulations on reaching the Metabolic Zone! I’m intrigued by your comments.
Prior to your success in reversing hypothyroidism and losing 50 lbs., did you have any history of long-term dieting (e.g. Paleo, Atkins, Vegan, Vegetarian, etc.) or significant, prolonged calorie restriction?
Also, are you fairly young? Like, perhaps, your 20s or early 30s?
Basically, I’m wondering if you might have ever wrecked your metabolism with some of the idiotic stunts that I’ve tried.
I hope your success continues and I wish you the best of health.
Cheers,
Lance
This is very similar to Clay Matthews (hollywoodphysique.com he no longer is online) story. He moved to South America and he magically became more ripped than ever. He narrowed it down to two thing, both of which you mentioned. He ate a very normal diet for several months, and had minimal exercise, but it was uphill walking. Too which he eventually turned into an ebook/course for fat loss. Incline walking.
Interesting stuff, curious to see how it pans out.
That’s cool Will. I think there’s probably more to it than that though.
You’re right cause he mentioned low stress, minimalist lifestyle, low computer usage, better and longer sleep, and generally no worries about anything.
Uphill walking might be ideal for fat burning, as it is basically just anaerobic enough to burn off glycogen and get your body to burn fat.
HI Matt, its really good to hear you again, and to understand why you suddenly went offline around the time I discovered you. I am 50 and have been a yoyo dieter/exerciser all my life. I realised for me if I followed your advice, it wasn’t going to be quick for me, so when I started out I decided to give it two years, maybe three. One year on, my temperatures are way more consistent, but they are still not high (my basal temp is almost never above 36.4). I am much happier and healthier eating plenty instead of starving myself (funny that ..) even with the extra weight.
But there are things in your overall approach that I still struggle with. Like you (maybe?), I am prone to over doing it when I work on a really personally important project – in other words, I am a (rehabilitating) adrenal junkie. I am also an insomniac and have been on and off most of my life. I now know this is a result of a particular variety of developmental PTSD, (which they are beginning to find is also a massively undiagnosed condition, causing all sorts of thyroid/HPA axis problems). Unfortunately, I have read some of the research and I don’t think you can eat your way out of trauma (though happy to be proved wrong).. But you can treat it in other ways which is what I am doing now and it seems to be working, so I am hoping I will eventually be able to get my temps up to something approaching normal.
Thanks for being a trailblazer and for coming back and sharing your experience so honestly. I am looking forward to hearing what happens to you now that you are getting the rest that you need.
Yeah, I suspect the productivity worship of Western culture is yet another ill of society that prevents people from getting in, and staying in, the metabolic zone.
And yeah, I don’t think one can eat their way out of trauma, but food definitely helps to minimize the exposure to stress hormones caused by trauma. It can soften the blow so-to-speak, which is why many often eat a ton of de-stressing foods under stress of various kinds.
I keep waiting for the shift in my metabolism. I’m nearly four years into this process, and now I’m pregnant with my 3rd kid at the age of 37. I’m a little panicked at what will happen this go round.
Just before getting pregnant with my 2nd, I lost 40 pounds with a mostly vegetarian diet and vigorous exercise. When I delivered my him I didn’t lose a pound of the 60 I gained even though the kid weighed 9lbs at birth. Of course, I promptly began abusing my body shortly after delivery with a paleo diet and insanity workouts. When the scale continued to climb despite my best efforts, I threw in the proverbial towel and began to eat whatever the hell I wanted. I don’t know–I gained a bit more of weight, maybe 10-15 lbs. But, at least I wasn’t hungry anymore. The exercise obsession took a bit longer to ditch.
Anyway, I’m about to head into my second trimester a good 70-80 lbs over weight. I’m trying to stay hopeful, but it’s a bit like watching a train wreck in painfully slow motion. I’m gonna overlook the part where you said “young women” tend to hit that metablic zone during postpartum and really focus on the part where you said they lose the weight “effortlessly and spontaneously.” A nearly middle aged girl can dream.
I had a similar experience! I had my kid, did see an immediate weight loss (basically kid’s weight plus placenta, fluids etc) and then stayed the same weight for most of her first year, and even seemed to gain a little bit if I even dared to try any kind of dieting or exercise. My body fought me tooth and nail if I attempted any kind of conventional weight loss. Probably a good thing, as I’ve felt very metabolically healthy most of the time, if a little chunkier than I’d like. Weight started coming off as soon as I dropped breastfeeds, so there is light at the end of the tunnel! Good luck with it all :)
Yeah, breastfeeding slightly suppresses metabolism through the elevation of prolactin and low levels of progesterone. Congrats on giving up the “tooth and nail” fight.
I think a big part of it is indeed believing. It’s a hard thing for a fat person to commit to doing something that everyone else things is the cause of fatness. It’s easy to do it half-assed, get caught up in some dieting of various varieties, and stay stuck.
After getting quite wrapped up in Gary Taubes “Good Calories, Bad Calories” around 2010 or whenever that came out, I have since pretty much realized that entire book is wrong. Blaming carbs is like blaming gasoline for an engine fire. The problem isn’t the gasoline, it’s that there is a leak in the gas line and gas is spraying in places it shouldn’t and setting things on fire. Now, there is some debate that excessive carbs might be causing that ‘gas line’ to leak, but not in all people, which then makes me think it is probably something else entirely. What Taubes has failed to come to terms with (still to this day) is the benefits of carbs, especially for fueling mitochondria. Why the hell would the body prefer glucose if it was bad? It doesn’t add up. There are other factors at play in causing carb related health issues. Some cultures eats tons of rice and they are bean poles (Bangladesh folks eat…are you ready?…473 grams a day. And half their kids are not only not fat, they are underweight and malnourished). It’s not the carbs, Gary Taubes! Stop it already!
What has stuck with me from that huge book of his, however, is right in the beginning where he is describing the NIGHTLY dinner of some upper class French people from around 1900 (or somewhere and sometime like that) where they had 9 course meals and only one was a salad, the rest being calorie loaded awesomeness from the entire gamut of what the earth has to offer food wise. And Taubes noted these people were not fat. I am willingly to bet these folks didn’t fast the entire rest of the day either (another obsession people are caught up in). Or partake in running marathons. Or much of anything exercise related for that matter. So, they ate like pigs, didn’t exercise, and were not overweight, and probably lived into old age. Isn’t that basically case closed in regards to calories in-calories out? That makes me think we need to examine everything else, much of which has drastically changed since those snail slow times.
One caveat though is that the food purity would have been hard to imagine. Everything was fresh and probably from farms close by. No Monsanto crap, GMOs, glyphosate, monocrops, and all that evil they have put upon us all for far too long. So, I do advocate for food purity, which sucks for a budget when trying to up calories. I know Matt don’t like shakes for their cooling effect, but I have returned to them, except now I make them calorie dense…long gone is the nasty stevia and in goes a large helping of raw honey, a couple eggs, coconut milk, and then a bunch of fruit and some carrots and greens and OJ and about a 50 ounce shake is the result…it doesn’t make me feel full, but it seems to fuel me well without cooling me off either.
Anyhow, addressing all those ‘other’ changes since the slow quiet abundant food purity days will probably be the true health challenge of our lives.
One tip I will share that has helped my stress. Turn off the mainstream media. Just tune all that BS out. Use a smartphone to quickly check into news sources (beware laptops and especially tower PCs with monitors, as you will probably sit idle too long and get caught into the internet time loss thing). Or even listen to in depth analysis from a plethora of new media sources on youtube while doing dishes or cooking, which I find calming (Sargon of Akkad, styxhexenhammer666, Stefan Molyneux, Black Pigeon Speaks, etc….I lean that way politically obviously, but it’s enlivening to actually hear some intellectual discourse instead of that vacuous garbage from the corporate controlled globalist MSM which I can assure you not only makes you dumber but probably fatter and sicker too…turn that drug sponsored nightly news garbage off!).
Great thoughts Evan!
Could it possibly be that getting an adequate, abundant supply of carbohydrate is the key, not the calories?
Last year, for 2 days, I replaced my normal diet with 1/2 gallon of salted OJ and 1/2 gallon of chocolate milk per day. Despite taking in over 800 grams of carbohydrate and about 3600 kcal per day, I lost 4 pounds the first day and 2 1/2 the second. This puzzles me for 2 reasons. One, I believed most of the early weight loss associated with any diet is due to glycogen depletion. Obviously this couldn’t be the case here. Two, I don’t lose any weight eating 3600 kcal of ‘normal’ food. I also lost all my taste for diet drinks and had a tremendous sense of calm.
Maybe for you Audacity. I tried the high-carb/low-fat route with gusto and would lose weight and get cold as shit, go back to eating normal, and gain exactly twice the amount of poundage than I lost.
It’s great to see you are back as an ‘independent health researcher’ with such an honest post Matt!
It seems that psychological factors are really important in this metabolic zone you describe, a state of low stress where the body AND the mind feels ‘safe’.
To me, as a psychologist, it is also nice to see you recognise the avoidance of emotions. This is actually a big factor in stress for many people. Supressing emotions causes ‘anxiety’ and confronting old and stuck emotions can reduce a lot of stress.
You got it Franz. I definitely think the psychological side is probably the biggest factor of them all. I was living similarly in Costa Rica in November and the first part of December and even gained a couple of pounds then gained a few more and felt horrible back in the States over Christmas. It wasn’t until I reduced my business expenses by $14,000 a month that I started losing weight and feeling way better.
Hey Matt, great to hear your good news. I have been on the program for about 5 years now and I finally lost a bit of weight in the last year. Only about 7kgs over 12 months but I’m just really happy to see some change. The difference for me was that we moved interstate to a much warmer climate, spend a lot more time in the sun and at the beach, left a lot of stressful stuff behind and like you I have started walking and we live in a very hilly area. I feel much more content and happier in our new location and I think the sheer natural beauty is part of that. We went camping this summer and it was the most relaxed I have felt in a long long time. Food wise I just eat whatever I want whenever I want but I am naturally eating a bit healthier in this climate. It’s very humid here which kind of makes me not as hungry and I also sweat a lot.
I was wondering, do you still strictly avoid pufa?? I don’t but maybe I’d lose more if I did. I’m still big and I’d love to lose more but I’ve never been able to master giving up pufa.
I think avoiding PUFA is good, but I don’t like to recommend anything that isn’t necessary per se. I don’t even think about PUFA much really. I’ve been eating it with reckless abandon for the last 5 years.
Hot weather is definitely a factor. I sleep in a much warmer room and am warmer all the time than I am in Florida kicking it in an air-conditioned house 23 1/2 hours a day.
Matt,
Been reading you for several years and now, at 69, with my physical and mental health, worsening, I’ve jumped into refeeding, though sleep has been, and is, a serious problem for which I’ve been taking Klonopin, but now, almost off of it after 13 years.
We live in Florida, too, half a block from the beach, and looking forward to being back. My wife hates summer there and the hurricane threat scares the crap out of her, so we come to Maryland, where we used to live. Not the place I want to be and it doesn’t help my bipolar illness.
I do need to tamp down stress hormones and for me, Florida is the place to do that. Wish you well, wherever you are in the world.
Good luck Mark! I’m in Florida at the moment. I kind of hate it, but the weather is cooling down and I’m getting back into taking nice daily walks, which is doing wonders for me. Enjoy the refeeding, and I suggest trying it with most foods with a low vitamin A content. Rice, bread, noodles, potatoes, cookies, apples, pears, grape juice, soda, skinless chicken, and beef are good staples.
Thank you, Matt. My wife and I are going back in a few weeks. When we’re away for the summer, I miss the beach,everyday, even with the intense heat/humidity.
The diet has been up and down. Experiencing lower GI problems which can have me running to the bathroom five or six times a day. But, I made a great discovery, after over a decade of poor sleep & addiction to Klonopin. If I eat a sandwich and a few gulps of soda, within 90 minutes, I’m asleep and most nights, stay asleep. Blunting cortisol, I suspect. So cool to learn something new. Thank you.
Hi Matt and everyone else who reads this!
In my previous post where I wrote about the fact that Eskimos, who eat no carbs most of the year and thrive on fat and some protein do not have low metabolic rate, otherwise they would not be able to survive in the harsh climate they live, Matt called me a douchebag.
So here is another douchebag comment for you.
We can build theories forever. We can hypothesize and presume and assume as much as we want. This is not going to change the facts.
For every theory a contra-theory could be built and for every research paper an opposite research can be conducted.
But when we speak about human nutrition lets look at the historic data we have and learn from live examples, not from research and hypothesis. This is what Weston Price did. And this is the best way to go, in my opinion.
Let’s look at another tribe’s example which debunks the Metabolic Zone theory.
Look at the tribes form the tropical islands, like Hawaii, New Zealand, etc.
Nature provides abundance of food there. Fish from the ocean, fruit and starchy root vegetables form the land. There is no scarcity of food, exercise is moderate and not strenuous, stress is low.
Hawaiians and Maori are quite fat. And they have been fat even before Europeans discovered them. They may not be morbidly obese, but they are not shredded either.
So overeating even on healthy and wholesome food, moderate exercise and low stress do not lead to fat loss. Overeating on highly processed food is very likely to cause obesity and myriad of other health issues.
I also wish that I could stuff my face every day and have a six-pack but the chances of this happening are pretty anorexic.
It is time to face the truth. Pig out and you will look like a pig.
I am not trying to promote HFLC diet, nor any other diet. I am just stating some obvious facts that contradict the above presented theory.
Everything that is taken to extreme is not healthy.
The truth lies somewhere between the extremes.
Where each person’s golden mean is, is up to the person to find out.
In all cases eating food as close to its natural state is going to be healthier than eating denatured and highly processed food.
Thanks man. Another douchey comment for sure. Well done!
Fearing a volcano eruption or sudden monsoon or hurricane is not stress? I noted below how many tribes Weston Price studied were pudgy. The board of he Weston A. Price Foundatiom is not not for its youthfulness, leanness, or longevity. Assuming natural food is magic is a theory and debatable. Like Matt Stone said years ago in the post “Hamburglar’s Metabolism.” How the burglar was lookimf very trim with his burger diet leaving Grimace nothing but the fries and sodas which was the reason for his bloated purple body. I lost 70 pounds years ago while nude sunbathing, drinking sugar soda and eating ice cream and butter cookies and Ghirardelli dark chocolate chips. Eating raw milk organic grass fed milk gave me vertigo, fatigue and a rash on my back. So much for your theories, Ivan. I will stay away from the PUFAs too. Occasionally I eat a McChicken or chicken mcnuggets or Rally’s fries. Maybe 1-5% of my diet.
“Hawaiians and Maori are quite fat. And they have been fat even before Europeans discovered them.”
Not true. I don’t wanna spam this thread with links but if Matt allows me, I’ll provide evidence that your statement is false.
I have nothing against links. Sometimes the SPAM filter catches them and I have to dig them out and approve them, which I don’t always get to quickly. If you have trouble posting it, let me know and I’ll go hunt it down.
I have a comment waiting approval since yesterday, probably spam filter for a link. Warning, there are two copies, one from today is slightly revised, so approve it and let the other one die.
Yeah, you submitted the newer one right as I approved the other one. Sorry for the delay and thanks for the comment man. Pretty cool when it actually happens as advertised.
Terry Shintani, an MD who works with locals in Hawaii, debunked this here:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RbfaFOUF0d4
One trip to the Bishop Museum Honolulu and you’ll see real photographs, never mind paintings, of natives and they were not fat, eating lots of starchy taro.
I’m from New Zealand and read the chapter in Weston A. Price’s book about Maori, and he says “The Maori race developed a knowledge of Nature’s laws and adopted a system of living in harmony with those laws to so high a degree that they were able to build what was reported by early scientists to be the most physically perfect race living on the face of the earth.” That doesn’t sound like they were fat to me!
Eskimos ate a LOT of protein [upwards of 250g/day is the figure I’ve seen], most of which gets turned into Carbohydrate, and protein is very thermogenic, so I can imagine they would be warm. Usually people in cold climates eat a lot of fat as it is calorie dense, and much needed to combat the calorie loss caused by being very cold all the time.
I would say the primary impetus of modern fatness is simply food-reward and food availability. Driving in your car to Wendy’s, where you can get 3,000 cals easy in one meal, is a lot different from spending your day walking around an island in the hot sun, fishing, hunting, and gathering. Even if you had an abundance of the food available in that environment, you would be hard-pressed to overconsume it [unless you had been starving], as it just doesn’t taste that good [because it wasn’t engineered by someone in order to net a profit].
Of course the other side of fatness would be the metabolic brokenness that results from a perpetual insulin spike/crash, which in itself encourages overconsumption due to low blood sugar causing carb cravings. This metabolic brokenness takes a lifetime for some to achieve, and a few years for others, depending on how adapted you are to eating a lot of carbohydrate.
I wouldn’t say denaturing or processing play much of a role in the metabolic impact of a food, as sweet potatoes will turn into blood glucose as surely as white bread, it just takes a little more time. We’ve never had an abundance of all the macronutrients, in as pleasing a form, as we do now. A high carb, low fat diet, and a high fat, low carb diet, are not nearly as harmful as a high fat, high carb diet. Glucose isn’t as harmful as fructose and galactose. A high protein diet is probably harmful regardless, but a high protein, high fat, high carb diet is the modern diet, so…
But yea being fat is actually good because, by becoming fat, you are preventing metabolic syndrome/diabetes. You run into problems only once you can’t get any fatter, and FFAs from your overfull fat cells spill into your bloodstream along with the abundance of glucose in your diet. This ultimately leads to metabolic syndrome, diabetes, heart disease, cancer, etc. Stress, exercise, lifestyle, etc. of course play an important role in health [stress elevates blood sugar].
The photos from Weston Price’s journeys to Pacific islands did not show fat or even “pudgy” people. This modern idea of “shredded” is a skewed notion. Muscles are exposed with extremely low body fat, but there is no scientific data that says that this very low body fat is healthy. The people Weston Price photoed were never fat. They were sometimes frail and undernourished when living close to the settlements of Europeans. The incredible adaptability of humans to live on what food they have available is a standout from Price’s book. In the case of the Inuit he visited, it must be said as Viljalmer Steffanson noted, they looked older than they were on such a carb free diet. Just because a group survive on a diet does not mean the diet is robust. In Hawaii, the ruling women, at least, were expected to be large. They had a system of overfeeding them to ensure large bodies. If we retrain our eye to accept all well fed people as normal, we will go a long way to healing the food disfunction of our culture.
I think the metabolic zone is all about hormones. They’re the puppet masters behind everything, and they can make you drop weight by a wave their hand!
A while ago I noticed that bodybuilding is essentially just hormone manipulation (high protein>>high IGF-1, etc), and those who juice put on weight effortlessly. You mentioned your mass and height gain in puberty: adolescents are basically juicing! They are drowning in hormones. You probably lowered cortisol and increased test as you suspected.
Absolutely Skeptic. Attributing weight regulation to “hormones” is just another way of saying it’s “involuntarily regulated.” Same thing.
Great article Matt! I have had times in my life when I’ve entered this magical unicorn phase, It typically happens to me when I’ve been exercising a lot and then stop and just chill for a bit. It seems like the reverse of what happens to most people! More recently it’s happened with weaning a little-un, most people think that breastfeeding causes magical weight loss but in my experience it’s been the opposite, I’ve only experienced brief spells of weight loss each time I’ve dropped feeds and I didn’t lose any baby weight at all in the first 10 months or so. I have a hunch that when my body has more calories available it goes into some kind of fat burning mode. It could also be related to drops in appetite, but I don’t perceive my appetite to drop that drastically. Getting enough sleep is definitely a factor too, my kiddo is a crap sleeper so I spent the first year sleeping in 1 hour installments, which I’m sure stopped me losing weight (and made me want to eat more anti stress sugary foods).
Bravo Bro! Not only is this the usual good reading, it’s somewhat cathartic for those of us who love you as we do (like family); healthy-sounding in a host of ways, in addition to the usual introspective style of inspiration you sow.
I can sense a return to ridiculously long (and long-range) frisbee sessions next time we meet. Hope it involves sand.
Be well!
Seems like you finally took it “over the top”
Yeah, I kept trying to “meet it halfway” John, but really just needed a “new beginning.” https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3pYNd0MSVXs
Dammit, Matt! Look what you started: https://youtu.be/rbQgaHZOFZ0
Oh, Matty! Good to hear from you again!
Here are my thoughts:
You mentioned the metabolic zone that young women might enter postpartum. I’ve had this happen to me after I had all of my four children (the first at age 26, the last at age 38, so not necessarily *young* anymore). The pounds just melted off. I had assumed it was from breastfeeding (which uses extra energy from the body). Now I’m wondering if it happens in postpartum women who do NOT breastfeed as well. Does anybody know?
As another aside, I polled my facebook friends, and asked if they lost weight easily and effortlessly while breastfeeding. About 100 people responded, and half of them said yes, and half of them said no. I wonder what made the difference? Why some and not others?
The women who didn’t lose the weight probably didn’t lose the weight because they weren’t in the metabolic zone. It could be because of stress, bad habits, lack of sleep, too much work, illness, dietary restriction, too much exercise trying to lose the weight, and so on. I do hear that women who don’t breastfeed are more likely to keep the weight, but I haven’t seen any statistics. If I did see statistics, I probably wouldn’t trust them anyway. Anyone doing a study like that had to have been paid by someone with a vested interest in a very specific result.
Also, what does this say about health? Is entering the magical metabolic zone and losing weight healthy, even if you’re consuming sugary sodas and chemically-altered food? What does health mean anymore? I’m not so sure.
To be clear Penny, I originally set out to find the perfect diet, and planned on eating that strictly at the exclusion of all “bad” foods. It become very apparent though, seeing the audience I attracted and considering the feasibility of such a diet for the masses, that I should change my focus. My focus now is finding the path to results with the least effort or dietary restriction and diligence. My objective is literally to eat the shittiest diet I can and still get results. There’s probably no need to take it to my level of carelessness with your dietary choices as long as whatever you’re doing is sustainable for you. I want to find something that could be sustainable for just about everyone without any effort, struggle, nutritional knowledge, exercise certifications, etc. Does that put things into a better context for you?
I always lose weight on vacation. The most was on a 5 star cruise with all you can eat buffets and 4 course dinners–7lbs in 2 weeks, and I only have a small gut.
Lots of sleep, socializing, sun, walking, eating good food whenever i was hungry, beer, whiskey, and wine, and zero stress.
It works like a charm. I just wish I could figure out how to maintain that state the rest of my life. I always gain weight when I come back to my daily grind.
Yeah exactly Vanner. That’s really common, and I’m headed back to the U.S. and A. in 10 days or so, hoping to maintain the zone I’ve been in. We’ll see what happens. I’m extremely fortunate that I don’t have to work for more than a few hours a day. I doubt I could get where I’m at living a totally “normal” life, and I certainly couldn’t get there when I was working all the time and hardly sleeping.
Question, has your refeed resulted in belly weight and water retention? Mine has, though apparently that’s rather common after super-low-carb, low calorie. The water retention is gradually shifting now, but I’m not sure about the belly weight. More importantly, all the crappy stuff that built up during my decade+ of crazy dieting is almost entirely reversed. Just wondering how similar my journey is to your own.
Thanks for the post!
Yeah, definitely belly fat and water retention, although the water retention comes and goes based on how well I’m sleeping for the most part. I also have fat everywhere, not just in the belly. It’s pretty dispersed compared to other beer-bellied people I see. Also, it’s common after any diet really, not just low-carb. I did my biggest refeeding stint right after intermittent fasting.
Matt, it is interesting that you say that beer turns of the metabolic zone for you, and makes you feel horrible. Is this true of alcohol in general, do you think? Is it always anti-metabolic for people?
Certainly I’ve noticed that gaining weight from honest feeding minus alcohol versus with alcohol produces a big difference. The tired, puffy look that appears in the face from excessive alcohol intake does not appear when merely eating a hyper-calorific diet without beer, etc.
Yeah I don’t know. I swell up like a blowfish with alcohol though, in large part because it’s such a powerful sleep disruptor for me. I always wake up in the middle of the night with an adrenaline surge that even cookies can’t seem to calm down.
I’m the same with alcohol Matt. Before refeeding it seemed I could handle it fine except for maybe a little face it. I suspect my body needed the calories so bad it found a way to deal with the side effects. But now even with one or two of anything I immediate get an uneasy fidgety feeling all over and raging stress hormones. A little bit of coffee will help but I still sleep horribly and don’t feel good plus sluggish for a day or two after. It definitely has some metabolic effect so I’m okay avoiding for now. I’d prefer a sugary drink anyway.
Thanks for the post. Hope we get some more from you.
I rarely drink beer. Honey Brown is the only one I like because it’s not too bitter if I just drink it once in a while. If I drink it every day it starts to taste bitter. I avoid bitter foods generally. Ray Peat said a small amount of tequila is good like half a shot I think. Maybe less. Personally I don’t like the taste of mixed drinks any more. I would rather drink lemonade or 100% juice punch or red grape. Clear alcohol has the least toxins and non-grain also seems to be better in my experience. For ex: I have never got a hangover from drinking Vikingfjord potato vodka, Fris vodka (freeze distilled) and good 100% agave tequila. Grape vodka like Ciroc is probably good.
I drink cold brew coffee (fresh grind, sir 8-24 hours in water refrigerated, then strain / use French press). It’s much less bitter and acidic. Regular coffee makes me nauseated sometimes. I don’t drink coffee habitually just every 2-4 days maybe as a treat.
I’ve put on about 30 pounds or so since following your work, eat for heat, etc. Recently I’ve been struggling with the weight and tried losing it in a “healthy” way by ditching grains. That lasted about 2 days, fortunately it’s easier now for me to spot the negative effects of restricting my diet. The inflammation and stress from narrowing my diet down was way worse than the occasional unexplained symptoms. I’m now back and committed to eating intuitively, working out a little here and there, but only when it feels right, and listening to my body when it’s telling me I’m too wired up from sitting in front of the computer all day. Aside from the occasional unconscious self rejection (that caused me to try and fall back into the diet trap in the first place) I am feeling great and also, unexpectedly, noticing that when I get good sleep and engage in stress relieving activities, I’m waking up looking noticeably slimmer, as if my metabolism was hard at work while I was catching up on Zzz. Coincidence? :)
Yeah, same here for sure Ian. A day with less work, more food, and great sleep yields a noticeable drop in body fat overnight. It’s crazy. Like some others have said, it’s insane how fast fat can disappear when in the metabolic zone vs. trying to slug it out with a forced calorie deficit.
I experience the same thing after a good sleep, although I think it is losing water. Probably due to cortisol dropping and just the general restorative nature of sleep.
Ray Peat says cortisol rises through the night.
I’ve followed your advice, and I’m about 25lbs heavier than I’d like. I still struggle to be warm, though. I can usually hit 37C once a day, but it drops quickly. I think I need to eat more fat to stabilize it. I’ve had a lot of unavoidable stress in the last year with a couple deaths in the family, my mom’s open heart surgery, and my dad fighting cancer. I’ve found though that I tend to feel best when I follow the guidelines of Ayurveda. By that I mean avoiding certain foods that don’t work for me, and favouring those that do. Im not vegetarian or anything. In fact, I’m against it. I’ve just really noticed my health and stress have really suffered whenever I stray too far from this, like when I was paleo/gaps and eating WAY too much cauliflower and other brassicas. Sure, I was a size 4, and everyone including myself, thought this was good for me, but I couldn’t figure out why my autoimmune symptoms were getting worse and my hair looked like crap. That’s when I found you, and learned that my autoimmune condition is worse when my temperature drops, and it was pretty low back then. Sometimes as low as 35.7C. I’m feeling better now, but I would love to just be consistently warmer.
Second time submitting this comment with some modifications. First one must have been lost in space.
My story as briefly as I can stand.
From probably around 145 lb or less, started re-feeding, didn’t want anything but high calorie dense foods. Vegetables didn’t look like food. Meat was only minimally interesting. I didn’t eat any really true junk food to speak of. No artificial ingredients or crap like that.
Gained to 208, maybe 210 tops, but had to push to get that high. I overfed in spite of my bodies protestations like acid reflux and not being very interested in food.
After at least an extra month of overfeeding, maybe two, I went to eating whatever and how-much-ever I felt like and pretty much instantly dropped to just over 200 lb.
Over the course of the next couple/few years through mostly emotionally stressful times (being now one of “them”, the fat people, didn’t help, but I fearlessly stuck with the experiment) I would lose weight spontaneously every 2 to 4 months or something like that. Not on a schedule or anything, but spaced out pretty much like that. Drops in body weight were usually 2 to 4 pounds, with 3 probably being average. That pattern is very clear. I ate all kinds of stuff. For a while I was into soda, several a day (organic stuff) but then I kept opening them and they’d go flat in the fridge. The appeal was gone. Some periods I ate more starch and some almost none since I have chronic digestive problems and have lost more and more foods, and have had to experiment a lot, going on and off stuff and starting again, starch, wheat, potatoes, dairy, etc…
Through NONE of all those changes, including eating much less than I wanted to at times (I try to actually maintain a high calorie intake, above what I think my BMR would require) I never regained weight, only lost and the losses rarely seemed to be associated with anything but the occasional general improvements in my health that I would experience for short times. The losses were always small, always happened fast, and always stuck.
There were at least three times that I lost weight spontaneously that actually seemed like they could be related to something diet wise. Only one was calorie restriction. One time with a pretty strict 3 day fast on broth with extremely low calories, I had a weight loss episode. The weight did not come back. I remember two others for sure, but I think there was a third related to sugar. One of them I was eating a lot of ice cream, like a couple of pints a day, more or less on top of my regular meals and suddenly noticed I had lost a few pounds. Another was recently when I went on a binge eating coconut sugar. I have been having such bad problems with my gut that I would get down to eating basically just meat, sugars and straight fats. I was ripping through pounds of straight coconut sugar, or eaten with a stick of butter. I was doing that daily and again I noticed that I lost weight.
After that last one I thought a lot about doing an experiment to see If I’d drop any more body fat if I basically over-ate sugar to jack my metabolism or however it works. I never did it, but now I’m thinking about it again :) After recent experience, It is hard for me to imagine what it would take for me to eat enough to gain body fat and I’m inclined to think that I am indeed in your metabolic zone, both fat proof and probably able to lose by eating an excess, especially sugars. I just turned 50.
I don’t take my temp anymore, and I don’t stay as warm as I did right after refeeding, but then my body weight was the lowest in my life when I was the coldest. at this point. I think I would be somewhat concerned if I lost another 10 pounds of body fat, but could probably live with losing another 5, though it is not a goal in the least. I now weight 163 and have stayed within a pound of that for quite some time now. It is remarkable to me how rock solid my weight is between loss episodes. Once it resets and the resets are so fast that I don’t even see them happen. I’ve seen that with other people too. Body fat can come of blazingly fast. Just FYI though, I was as low as 125 at one point in my life, totally emaciated eating regular full meals and consistently very low temps. There’s a wrench in the gears for ya! The term and concept of metabolism are much misused and abused out there.
As far as I’m concerned, I’m a refeeding success story. It far from fixed all my health problems and I’m still struggling, but I have made major permanent improvements too and feel strongly that refeeding and regluarizing my body temp and metabolism helped lay a foundation for those improvements.
I also think that there are going to be strategies discovered that will either help people lose body fat and regularize metabolism either without refeeding, or post refeeding. My guess is that among multiple strategies some will work for certain people and others won’t and for some nothing will work. But weight set point theory is where it’s at and anyone in this arena of study not taking that into account are probably not going to get much of anywhere, at least not anywhere near that grail of self regulating body fat levels (even if we find a way to initially reset the thermostat on fat setpoint). I went the eat and pray route and it worked. I was heartbroken, stressed, miserable and depressed much of the time, not sleeping well often, inflamed and generally sick a lot with highly varying diet, but it worked anyway. I think I would have lost faster if I had been a healthier person. I also think there are probably things I could have done, including calorie restriction, that would have had me losing faster. I suspect I could fast, even now, for a few days drop a few and then go back to eating normally without regaining,, though at some point that will not be true probably because I’ll be too low in body fat. I for one and a believer in the metabolic zone.
One last point. I think everyone with persistent weight, stuck low metabolism/hypothyroidism and or health problems should be looking into detoxification strategies and at least give it a shot. We know that all kinds of crap we are exposed to are endocrine disruptors and we have no idea what the synergy is when you pile them up in your cells. There is an obvious epidemic of endocrine disruption and I don’t think it’s just from modern eating habits and dieting. Once total health and detoxification are compromised, we probably detox more slowly. Also, some people are probably much slower de-toxers than others. Christopher Shade seems to be the smartest guy in the room for detox. If you can absorb his Human Detoxification System lecture video on youtube in one sitting, you’re a lot smarter than me. BTW, most of his products are probably not necessary. I think the IMD and clearway cofactors are probably the essential ones. Iodine is also worth looking into for detox and other reasons.
Matt! I love your honesty, and am glad to see you back. I really think feeling free and relaxed and regularly interacting with lots of other humans in a free and relaxed way is really what it’s all about. Kudos to you for getting yourself in a place where that’s what you can do. Happy travels.
Many of the people Weston Price studied were pudgy. So what? And no natural food is not better always. Sally Fallon looks like a pig. Many of people at WAPF conventions looked like an “Arby’s convention,” to quote Matt from many years ago. People do not have to eat organic or grass fed or whatever to look and feel healthy. I eat 60% or lower dark chocolate, lots of sun dried fruit, butter cookies, palm oil cookies, HFCS sodas and I sleep great and feel healthy and energetic. Take your health dogma and shove it. People can ne healthy eating Mickey D’s every day. Just don’t eat the fries and fried food in general very often or diet sodas or mayo or special sauce.
Also I live in a high rise and regularly climb 12-17 floors carrying groceries or laundry or a heavy backpack. I do not drive, so I walk and carry loaded bags more distance. Health is not to be found just looking at a number on the scale or body fat percentage or a six-pack or eight-pack stomach. How about temperature, sleep and mood? Many people look pudgy and feel ok. Many are rippped and feel cold and angry and short temperature and are writhing in pain from a hard chair. So how do you measure health?
I raised my body temperature to like 99.8F by doing urine therapy. And by drinking lots of grape juice and other things it tasted neutral or even good. Orange juice made it taste bad as did yogurt or cheeses. I saw all kinds of benefits like needing less sleep and having vivid deep lucid dreams, being more calm and warm, having smooth moist shiny clear skin & hair. People claim to have reversed diabetes and cancer, acne and dandruff and other conditions by drinking or applying it topically. It takes a lot of will to do it even seeing numerous benefits and getting to where it tastes neutral or good. People claim drinking urine is a cure for bed wetting. I don’t have that problem but I have drunk a few cups before bed and got a full night’s sleep without waking up. I’ve also noticed my vision and smell improved. I could smell what people were eating in an office several rooms away and could smell dog pee and poop while waking around when I couldn’t before. All my senses were better. It clears our your throat, sinuses, eyes and ears, IMO.
I can already see this process working psychologically. Since giving myself permission to eat A LOT of pretty much whatever sounds good to me, I am already starting to lose the urge/desire to binge eat. I’ve been trying to get to this place for a long time, and have been much less restrictive for almost a year now, but haven’t really just stopped trying to control my food intake. It has been amazing to see my mindset shift in just a few days of letting go with food. I have known all along that eating through the anxiety and doubt is necessary for freedom from food/body prison and it has been interesting to see it play out. AND, I’m still questioning as this is so foreign to me and my body. So, how much do I need to force feed if my body is saying stop? I mean, I’m eating substantial meals and snacks and desserts and my stomach is not agreeing with me right now. (Bloating, cramping) Can I just eat normally to appetite and get my metabolism in shape that way, or do I need to keep eating after I’m full. I’m sure I’m overthinking it. And my temps would probably rise if I stopped typing posts like this, haha.
It’s nice to read another blog from you (I really like your honesty. It’s why I’ve always liked this site and reading the reader comments) , even though it seems from the comments that I’m the only one who’s managed to turn her health even worse refeeding and trying Peat inspired eating. :(
Apart from the fatgain which I can’t seem to shake and even seems to keep on creeping up.
In the beginning it was all great and I felt really great (I’ve never have experienced a high libido like that) and then the changes started happening gradually. It felt like my emotions were on steroids….the highs definitely felt good but I also started experiencing moments of pure rage for no apparent reason,like I could smash someone’s face in if they’d even looked at me funny. All my emotions were 10x heightened the good and the bad ones that started to occur.
Soon my sleep started to go downhill,no matter what time I went to bed,I’d always woke up at least once a nigth,always 3 hours after going to bed when I would need to sleep stumble to the bathroom to pee.
My teeth started eroding very badly and rapidly. I sadly now also look like a Dalmatian,bc my once perfectly clear skin is now completely covered with big pea-sized moles and I also develloped large deep wrinkles in my forehead.The hair on my head has become very thin,while I’ve develloped some *lovely* facial/chin hair that I can’t seem to lose.
My digestion has only become more worse; My belly now everyday looks like I’m pregnant from the bloating and the fatlayer on top. Which created many stretchmarks.
Then finally about 2 years ago my back/wingblade area completely broke down on me,so that I hardly could move myself without bursting into tears of pain.
At the time I also had another MRI and it showed that since ‘refeeding’ the amount of lesions in my brain had increased.
I can’t afford to have testing done anymore,so I have no idea what’s up with everything and where to start.
I’ve kinda regressed back due to all the issues to a more Bulletproof style diet (no coffee though) which is keto by default since I can’t seem to digest starch and sugars , some things have gotten a bit better like my teeth and my sleep but I’m still wary that keto migth also be causing other..new..problems. And I’m not losing any weight/fat such as is claimed to happen effortlessly.
So….it looks like I’ve found and am stuck on the other side of the Metabolic zone. It’s so far away that I hardly can see it anymore.
Dutchie, I had a lot of similar issues a year or two ago. I haven’t hit the zone yet, but I do feel hopeful that I’m heading in the right direction. Instead of looking at diet changes from a restriction perspective to address problems, I started learning about food energetics through traditional Chinese medicine, and I had an acupuncturist friend help me see which organs needed more love and attention through food as medicine. Once I started eating foods that were energetically right for me and my liver and kidneys and spleen, I finally saw improvements again like I did when I first did a refeed, like better sleep. It’s still a sensitive balance depending on whether I am taking care of my liver, and I still get the occasional low sugar adrenaline rush at night, but it’s the biggest improvement I’ve seen since starting 5 years ago. Might help to check out TCM and food energetics. Oh and my hair loss and chin hairs were from estrogen dominance due to low progesterone, which has been remarkably improved by supporting my liver. Hope that helps if you haven’t looked at it from that angle before.
Thanks for the advice Courtney.
The problem’s that I just don’t know anymore what I’m all dealing with and what’s at the root cause of it,bc when you’re not tackling the root cause you will remain going round in circles. It’s very clear to me that my gut,liver,adrenals,thyroid are struggling (and possibly other organs as well) but what’s the cause;is it my brain/hypothalamus? not sending correct signals…is it pathogenic…is it entirely gut related..who knows.
Throughout the last 2 years I slowly started taking out foods,which I suspected or felt caused problems (mainly digestive wise). That ultimately let to a somewhat ketogenic palate as in foods left to eat (though I probably eat way too much protein according to keto macros and I also don’t track/measure the veggies I eat to stay below 30grams net.carbs like the hardcore keto followers do. Though with the veggies I eat,I probably don’t or hardly reach 30grams a day.)
I’ve occasionally read some info about TCM, Ayurveda etc. It usually requires a good practitioner to asses and adress what’s wrong and make an effective plan of action.
Yeah,I’ve been pondering a lot about estrogen too. The thing is that I think the problem’s related to the bodyfat (with probably some water) which creates too much estrogen on top of normal production and I think (I seem to have high Cortisol,though I don’t have a high stress lifestyle) too much progesterone is being turned into cortisol.
The ‘ funny’ thing is that when I was lean and not menstruating,bordering to underweight, I actually seemed to have much less problems with all these hormonal issues and low moods. (I have to say that I’m amazed though that I haven’t lost my period like most women do when they start a keto/lowcarb diet.)
I’m thinking about so many things/supplements to try to tackle things like; aromatase inhibitors, NAC, krill oil, cell salts,saccharomydes boullardii, multi-or B vitamins…
At the same time I don’t want to waste money on more things,that’ll eventually end up in the kitchen cabinet bc they just don’t work…or at least not favorably. (bc I’d ‘bet’ on the wrong cause)
Really nice to read this from you. Looking forward to read those new posts!
Just out of curiosity, have you ever considered to bring your Youtube channel back? Miss those videos of yours!
Matt,
I’ve been really focused on eating to get my temps up for two weeks now. Before this, I was no longer restricting at meals and eating until satisfied but was still binging on sweets (because they were still restricted.) I had already gained some weight. The difficult things in the last two weeks have been bloating, indigestion, and some freaking out about weight gain/ potential weight gain. There are several positive physical things I have already noticed and gotten excited about, however, including:
1. Sleeping better at night
2. More color in my cheeks when I wake up
3. Doing 35 push-ups in a row whereas before I could only do 30 and my husband complaining that I was leaving him in the dust on our bike ride this week. More energy for workouts.
4. Starting to feel more freedom with food and eating what I want.
The highest I have seen my temp in the last two weeks is 98 one morning. The rest of the time it has been in the 97-97.7 range. 96.7 being the lowest. I have decreased my water consumption from 3 liters or more a day down to just about 2 quarts. I’m still pretty active, though I’m trying to tone down the intensity a couple days. I have been keeping track but I would sAy I’ve been eating at least 3,000 calories a day. Maybe more like 3,500. I don’t know if I’m gainjng weight still, really.
Does this sound like I’m headed in the right direction? Should my temps be higher at this point, or do I need to just give it more time? And is there anything I can do about the bloating and indigestion? Thank you!
Definitely sounds like you’re heading in the right direction, and the digestive issues are probably just from adjusting to more food. As your transit time speeds up it should decrease steadily until you feel like you can eat anything and everything and burn it up with your abdominal inferno.
Thanks! I look forward to that day!
Another question- the last couple nights I’ve woken up at like 3am soaked in sweat. I took my temp and it was only 97.5. Any ideas what could cause this? Certain food? Is it a good or bad sign or neither?
I am laughing so hard, imagining you waking up and eating cookies in the middle of the night. xoxo
Hi Matt,
I don’t think it is mere heat as much as UV radiation from tropical sunlight. If it was heat, then simply the summer in New York could have worked or Jacksonville, Florida or any other temperate zone place. My 18 years worth of data point to tropical sunlight. The leaning effect ONLY happens for me in the tropics-I need the tropical sunlight of Cancun etc. The tropics sweat out water, but other temperate spots get even hotter. I do not think anybody out there in Bloggerville has spent the hours under tropical sunlight that I have accrued. ROTFL.
Take care,
Razz
In Florida I spent 23.5 hours a day in air conditioning. Here I’m spending 0 minutes per day. It’s a big difference. Turn the AC off for a summer in Florida and hell yeah you’ll lose weight. My girlfriend lost over 100 pounds by stopping using the AC 15 years ago.
I have noticed that the true offical tropics (Nicaragua, Dominica, etc.) do not get as hot as Florida. I do not use much air conditioning either-but in Florida I have to . :)
Miami is hot, but Jacksonville summers-holy crap. LOL!
Miami seems to fall in a nice zone where you still get the heat and humidity water and fat loss benefits of hot weather, but they are turned up a notch over, say, NY, with the almost tropical level UV radiation on top of it. Tropics has even more radiation *but* less overall extreme heat-more comfortable, like you note. My friend and I talked about this once. All three of us notice this. Awesome.
Glad you are still enjoying life , Matt.
Best wishes,
Razzer
Cape Canaveral, sitting out in the Atlantic. The mornings are hot and sticky(in the summer)but after noontime, a refreshing breeze comes in from the southeast. Moved to Miami from NJ when I was 16. Always a great place to me. I still call it home.
I retain water, too, Matt. Although, it could be due to my fairly long term use of Aleve because of a weightlifting injury.
I had a leaning effect in Myrtle Beach but minor. Much , much less than latitudes 20 N. to Miami.And in New York super minimal.(another hot and humid summer destination.
No doubt heat and humidity help, but I think it is mainly UV radiation of tropical latitudes- as temperate zone South Carolina is hot and humid in the summer , too , and the observed fact that I consistently get the same effect in December in Miami when it is much , much drier-I do not seat much at all-and only 78 or 80 degrees tops. I conclude it is the super powerful sunlight of Miami on south to the Equator that is the biggest factor.
All of the United States on the east coast is hot and humid in the summer but from Miami to Keys the UV is very different-that is the factor that really stands out. The sunlight dominates life at these latitudes-it is always a factor and people even use umbrellas on sunny days. LOL!
Enjoy the rest of your stay in the tropics.
Take care,
Razz Razzinkov. LOL!
Oh, Matt, I wish I would’ve found you earlier when you were still seeing patients! I have so many questions after low carbing for years and now trying to regain my health through refeeding and not restricting my diet!
I’ll still answer stuff here Beth. Fire away.
Ok, well real quick health history…got married and gained about 25 pounds, thought the world was coming to an end, so I dove into the world of keto, (which was my first time EVER dieting or thinking about what I was eating) did that for about a year and a half, lost 20 pounds and felt amazing. No gas or bloating, which I hadn’t even realized I had until I didn’t have it anymore. However, reality kicked in and being that the rest of the world doesn’t eat keto, I began eating carbs again. Slowly regained the 20 pounds and then some (sound familiar?). Throughout this past fall I began to dread winter coming (I live in Wisconsin, and it snowed six inches today) because I was already freezing cold and could rarely feel my fingers and toes, regardless of how thick my wool socks were. I began to suspect hypothyroidism because of my inability to lose weight, adrenal fatigue, because why not, and gluten sensitivity. I got a wicked itchy rash on my elbows, knees, hands and feet after drinking a beer that no matter how much googling I did, one thing kept popping up-dermatitis herpetiformis-which, as you probably know is gluten related. Eureka! It explains everything!! I shall go gluten free! So I binged on all the things I was going to cut out for the entire month of December. Felt awful, bloated, constipated, gained 10 pounds in the span of four days over Christmas. January 1, I went gluten free. I felt way better initially-less indigestion, these heart palpitations that I’d been having went away, and I had more energy. Still was freezing, not losing weight, and still suspected hypothyroidism. And, as the hubs and I have been trying to get prego, I had been tracking my temps for about ten months. I was consistently in the 96’s pre-ov and low 97’s post. I found you through a guest post you did on a fertility blog about raising temps to improve fertility. I quickly got sucked in and read “Eat for Heat”, “Diet Recovery” and “Diet Recovery 2” in quick succession. I was flabbergasted. So much of what you said seemed downright wrong and yet so right. I was weary and worried and stressed about my diet and gaining weight and this and that and so the idea of letting all that go and eating whatever the heck I wanted seemed so freeing. I decided, what the hell, maybe I’ll eat gluten again and see if it kills me. It didn’t. So that was the end of January. I started eating whatever sounded good to me, however much of it I wanted, cut wayyyyyy back on my water (had been doing about a gallon a day!), and increased my salt and sugar intake. I can definitely tell that I am much warmer now, but my temps have hardly moved. I’m in the low 97’s pre-ov now, and mid to high 97’s/low 98’s post ovulation. Am I just not giving it long enough? I don’t know if it’s because I’m not taking in enough calories/day (stopped keeping track), but I eat to satisfaction, and I’m eating highly palatable foods. At what point or after how long do I stop eating crappy food and start craving “good” food? Does the quality of food seem to make a difference? I’ve gained about another 5 or so pounds on top of the 10 I gained over Christmas, which is on top of the 25 I initially gained, making me my heaviest I’ve ever been. I know that’s kind of the point, but how do I go about resetting my setpoint for weight gain and getting my temp up?? Keep on shoving frozen pizzas and McDonald’s shamrock shakes down?
Ahhh, I was wondering who drank those nasty Shamrock shakes!
If you are feeling better, feeling warmer, and your temp has already come up in a month, you’re fine. Just keep on doing what you’re doing, erring on the side of eating too much rather than too little, and too “dirty” rather than too “clean.” And really focus on getting good sleep and relaxing more in your spare time. And then just be prepared to see this through. It may take a while, but you’re responding well enough to see where it takes you I’d say.
LOL I’m not gonna lie, I hadn’t had one for a few years and I had one the other day and was less than impressed. I’m still having a lot of bloating and gas (TMI, I’m sure) but I guess that’s just par for the course? Will that eventually go away? If I do have an intolerance for gluten is there anything I can do to make that go away?? I will keep on keeping on!
My high school basketball coach was in the Metabolic Zone. He told me in order to enter and remain in that state one only had to follow three rules:
1. Never get less than 12 hours sleep
2. Never play cards with a guy who has the same first name as a city
3. Never get involved with a woman with a tattoo of a dagger on her body
I never tried this myself, but of course I had other issues back then.
Yes! This comment is amazing! One of my favorite movies of all time.
Matt what’s your opinion on coca-cola (and caffeinated sodas) and cheeses? Are they a big part of your diet?
No problem with cheese. I think it’s great for most. Coca Cola is probably fine for most too, but I prefer to avoid caffeine and really keep the nervous system quiet, especially on an empty stomach (if I drink coke, it’s always with food).
But Matt what about the studies showing that people who drink 10 cups of coffee per day are the healthiest and have least amount of cancer, diabetes, … It seems that even coffee at 10 cups per day has been used to reverse serious diseases like diabetes. Why are you so cautious of caffeine?
Fascinating, Sean! I love coffee! Would you please post links to the studies you mentioned?
Just google coffee reverses diabetes.. Or Google coffee health benefits… The studies are on PubMed too
Hey Sean,
I’m aware of the positive (and the negative) studies on coffee consumption. Personally, I shy away from it because it makes me feel terrible. The only time I desire it is when my metabolism is low. I’ve also witnessed countless people quit caffeine and find it remarkable how much better they feel, although that’s less convincing.
The problem with letting studies guide you is that there are too many variables, and it’s easy to latch onto false conclusions. If a study is done and it’s found that those that drink the most coffee have the lowest rate of diabetes (as with the Finnish study that is frequently cited), it’s really easy to attribute that to coffee itself when it could be any number of things.
It could be that coffee puts one into a physical state more like a high metabolic state, and it may indeed be better to be a heavy coffee drinker in a low metabolic state than a non-coffee drinker in the same low metabolic state. I can only assume this to be true since my caffeine cravings go through the roof whenever I do something to lower my metabolism, and I drink caffeinated things and eat chocolate incessantly until my metabolism is restored.
Maybe someone drinking 10 cups+ per day is better hydrated. Or maybe they are frequently consuming sugar and milk with that coffee, and that’s where the benefit arises.
Or maybe appetite is blunted by coffee, and people that drink a shitload of coffee aren’t eating as much fried chicken and potato chips. And that’s where the protective effect comes from.
Maybe they are more physically active, and the benefits of coffee are actually from fidgeting and doing stuff instead of sitting around on the couch.
Coffee is a nutritious substance as well. Perhaps frequently eating fruit or drinking fruit or vegetable juice might give one the same effects of coffee without the detriments.
Who knows.
The point is that it’s interesting to look at research and ponder things, but one shouldn’t let that be their only guide. There are far too many variables to get overly enamored with one thing that seems to have a good report card in several categories.
Matt. I’m not just talking about “epidemiological” studies. There are studies where mice who were genetically altered to get cancer, diabetes, cirrhosis, so on, don’t get it when they get coffee, or when they already have it, it is reversed in the lab by feeding the mice coffee/caffeine. So caffeine reverses diabetes! (In amounts equivalent to 10 cups of coffee per day for a human). What say you?
HI Matt,
Few questions
1. What would happen to a female if they took over the counter testosterone booster? I couldn’t find anything on the internet. Would it still help with energy and possibly metabolism? Would it mess up female hormones?
2. I am intolerant to very hot water. I can only dip my legs in hot tubs. It feels like my skin is burning and it’s very uncomfortable. Does this have anything to do with metabolism?
3. I’m still trying to get my temps up. Still hovering around 97.7-98. Hands, feet and tip of nose are cold most of the time. Warming foods seem to take a while to warm my hands and feet up and it doesn’t seem to last long. I try hard to intuitively eat. Food doesn’t taste that good when I’m not hungry. I tried RARRF one time for about 1-2 months but had to stop because everything (highly palatable foods) was tasting the same/bland. I stopped having pleasure in eating bc I was eating when hungry and not hungry. I was not enjoying it. Can I rehab a metabolism and practice intuitive eating? I do have an appetite, haven’t dieted for years, I do eat highly palatable foods and drink when thirsty only (non-water and a little water) If yes, how can I raise temps while practicing intuitive eating.
Hey Butters,
I have trouble believing an over-the-counter testosterone booster would be good for anyone, especially a female. What makes you think this is necessary/potentially beneficial?
That was weird. I think you edited your post. I had a second son and I’m nursing him still so that makes sense. I was just curious about test boosters.
– Does being sensitive to hot water have anything to do with the metabolism?
-Ray peat said that if you have high cholesterol numbers that it’s linked to hypothyroidism. Do you believe that? My numbers are high but my cholesterol ratio (hdl/total cholesterol) is in the healthy range. I don’t have hypothyroid symptoms.
Yeah I edited it because I realized, after the fact, that you weren’t the Butter Believer (Emily Benfit) I thought you were (based on your email address).
I would say high LDL is more associated with hypothyroidism.
Love this whole post and comment thread. Love your honesty and vulnerability, Matt. Makes me want to move to a warm climate. I just had my 3rd kid a year ago and I wish I were thinner but I know not to go down the paleo/ gaps/ wapf/ keto bandwagon I used to be on before refeeding about 3 years ago. Funny, because it’s hard to get to tons of sleep and not be stressed out with kids. Any tips for stress relief with 3 kids in winter in NY, accepting emotions, coming to terms with the past? Those are my main sources of stress.
Thank you for this post and all the comments. So great to learn from
people who have been through this journey before.
Matt,
Could you explain what are the flaws in tricking the brain through achieving satiety on lower calories? (Real food diet, high protein, boring foods) Why does the rebound still happen? Is it because the satiety signal is just one component of regulation?
Ondrej, you may find this interesting:
Why Your Brain Makes You Fat
chriskresser[dot]com/why-your-brain-makes-you-fat-with-stephan-guyenet
I dunno man. Correct me if I’m wrong, but you seem to view any sort of restriction as anti-metabolic and ultimately leading to rebound weight gain. That any such restrictions are only unhealthy, and any deviance from an anabolic state is counter productive. I would more naturally tend to think that catabolism and anabolism should be balanced. That the body benefits and is harmed in different ways from restriction vs. overeating. This has been my experience and seems to be the way natural systems work. Balance, rhythm. If there is no sort of catabolism, one would continue to….. anabolize.
Anyways – I sincerely wish you luck and here is an article showing an interesting study on periodic scientifically designed caloric restriction on older people.
http://news.usc.edu/116479/scientifically-designed-fasting-diet-lowers-risks-for-major-diseases/
People think that just because you have “jopurnals , wear white coatsm, have credentials that one is doing “science.” This is not rue at all. Paul Lutus and physcists Richard Muller BOTH point out that non-expanatory studies from “credentialed” people earing lab coats and publsihing in journals does NOT mean it is good science at all. THEY LOOK THE PART BUT PRODUCE NO NEW INSIGHT. Paul Lutus notes this.
I recommend Paul Lutus’ articles. Even Professor Lawrence Krauss stresses that simply being published means NOTHING AT ALL. LITERALLY. Lots and lots of junk is published every day. The ONLY thing that counts is if others find the owrk useful and intersteing and it pans out and manyothers find similar things.
Too many Internet gurus who have the Ph.D. fool their followers JUST because of their titles and that they have journals and publish. As Lutus and Krauss point out- this does not matter, NOR does it mean they are necessarily doing anything remotely like science. “The Scientifi Method” is a grade school myth that serious researchers laugh at . Scientists use thousands of methods. Dr. William McCommas, University of California at Berkley and physcist Jihn Denker have EXCELKLENT articles that THE Scientific Method NEVER existed. Science has parameters. No hard and fast rules. All great working physicists know this.
IMPORTANT: We STILL do N-O-T know the origin of the universe, as Steven Weinberg himself notes and emphasizes. This may be a SURPRISE to popular readers- the public.
It is a shame that hokey science POPULARIZERS like Kakau, Tyson and Sagan spewed and pandered to the public. Sagan was an AVERAGE at best scientist- not even remotely as brillianrt as Einstein, Feynman and other serious heavyweights. ( not authoritiies, of course, but great inuitive genuises)
REAL greats , like Guth and Feynman ,knew that the popular Big Bang is NOT the most accurate theory we have to date. Guth’s inflationary model fits the data best. Guth himself will tell you the Big Bang scenario is ONLY ONE OPTION of how it all started. And it is much more than we actually know. This Big Explansion could have only been a bang in our local area-one of many, many infitnite bangs etc.
. Did you know a GENUINE genuises , Freeman Dyson ( who communicated with Einstein and knew him) , has NO offical Ph.D,. speaks OUT against the Ph.D. system and is PROUD NOT to have a Ph.D,.- yet this manv is 10 times as brilliant as any Ph.D. I know. Dyson’s sons do NOT have PhD’s either and they are proud of this fact.
The common Blogopshere official obesity scientists have gotten NOWHERE in furthering our understanding. it’s men like Leibel and Rosenbaum and other more obscure people who HAVE. However, it is STILL very poorly understood.
Taubes is always attacked by vocal people YET these same people – adherents to food reward- have a weak argument. Friedman would LAUGH at food reward. It’s utter nonsense. Taubes’ explanation, while not complete is FAR closer to the turth- HORMONES. Maybe mnot insulin, but fat cells are GOVERNED by HORMONES!
By the way, Freeman Dyson calculated the number of atoms in the sun back when he was about 8 or something. Brilliant man!!!!! FAR more brilliant than any Internet obesity scientist. Einstein was AMAZINGLY brilliant and had a spooky insight. The science popularizers are nowhere at his level. And they spew a lot of misinformation. Even that extraordinary qoute was STOLEN from a man named Marco Truzzi who said it first. it’s not even true really. Sagan was denied tentuire at Harvard by his colleagues because he pandered to the public, was off the charts arrogant, overstated science and his own agenda- according to colleagues. I agree. I will give Sagan credit for trying to get it more well known, but he was not a great or brilliant scientist and he was an insufferable obnoxious over the top enormous prick according to many people who knew him- self -aggrandizement to the max.
We need MUCH MORE Feynman Qquotes and much less Sagan, Th epublic does not even knwo Feynman much, but scientists in the field regard him greatly and reference his ideas and righfully so.
Feynman , while a showman, was a far superior mind. Einstein , a perhaps even greater mind, was quite humble. I always avoid science popularizers- they do a great disservice. The great minds were Newton and Einstein at the very top, Lorentz and Feynman close, Maxwell, Dirac, Faraday, Popularizers , like Sagan, Tyson and Kaku= not in their class-
I’d never heard of Freeman Dyson. What an incredible man!
Thanks, Razwell…I’m always learning from you!
Cheers,
Carl
You’re welcome,. Karl. : )
I recommend Lev Okun, too- very highly ( He was head of the Institue for Theoretical and Experiemtnal Physics in Moscow ,Russia. Hadrons were named by him. Okun pointed out that there does not exist a *complete* equivalence between mass and energy. He has a great article called “The Concept of Mass” and it includes Einstein’s own personal thoughts late in life ( 1948 onwards) that mass is invariant and does not change with velocity and the true equation is Eo=mc2 for objects at rest. The Eo ( E subzero- the way Einstein wrote it )stands for “rest-energy”- the only form of energy that can be equated to mass. And that for obejcts in motion, energy is always greater than mc2. Lots of misconceptions abound.
Nuclear reactions involve *changes in binding energies*. The “strong nuclear force”- (gluons faciliate it) and it is the powerful attractive force between protons and neutrons – this force, the strong force, is being unleashed or released in nuclear reactions. It is far and away the strongest force in Nature. While a common view: It’s not precise to say mass is converted to energy.It;s not true. And it is totally , totally incorrect to say matter ( something much different from mass) is transformed into energy- that was Okun;’s pet peeve.
Food- carbon atoms ( actual matter- stuff-atoms that comprise food ) and complex interactions can lay down the body tissue etc. But “calories’ are just a fiction and can never ever trasform from a number, a charcteristic into human tissue. veggies are msotly water- mostly hdrgoen and oxygen atoms . Pizza ,for instance, has lots of carbon atoms in it Humans can excrete water well- the healthy humans
I may be off of the Internet for the next 2 weeks or so . But until I see you again : )
Best wishes,
Razz
Hi Matt
My temperatures seem to be coming up, but my sleep is getting worse (1-2 hours last night). I’ve tried eating a big snack right before bed and in the middle of the night, with no luck. I’m definitely eating plenty of food but I’m drinking a lot less fluid, almost none of it water (~ 32 oz/day total of salted OJ, salted & sugared coconut milk, whole milk chocolate milk). I’m wondering if my insomnia could be caused by overdoing the sugar/salt combo (I do it several times a day, in food & drink & under the tongue) and/or my supplements now being too much for me, since I’m not washing everything out?
Also, do you think there’s any metabolism-raising value in doing the kinds of things that Wim Hof or Scott Carney advocate, like taking cold showers to increase brown fat? Or is that dangerous for someone whose temperatures are already low?
No. I think cold water thermogenesis is a terrible idea.
That’s weird that your sleep has gotten THAT bad. But that can happen when introducing a bunch of new foods and digestive challenges into a beat up system that’s been starved for ages. I wouldn’t panic about that quite yet, but if it doesn’t subside soon it could become a serious issue that shouldn’t be ignored.
Thanks for your reply, Matt. I would love to hear more about why you think the cold water stuff is a bad idea — these guys SEEM incredibly healthy and robust, and they attribute a lot of it to the regular cold exposure.
My sleep is better than when I last posted, but I’m still wide awake for awhile in the night (and I wasn’t before I started this, although my quality/depth of sleep has been shitty since I was a teenager.)
http://180degreehealth.com/hot-water-vs-cold-water-thermogenesis/
Wow, I REALLY need more sleep! I actually read the entire thread you sent the link to — about 2 weeks ago — but completely forgot.
There is one thing that Wim, et al. say that is interesting but might be really messed up? — I dunno. They talk about intentionally triggering the fight-or-flight response, so that you can learn to suppress it and, therefore, not have it being set off willy-nilly by things like getting a credit card bill. So, while I shudder at the idea of a cold shower, I’m wondering if that part is sound reasoning?
Thanks for doing this blog, Matt. It’s fantastic.
Learning to suppress the stress response does sound very useful.
Hi Karl :)
Feel free to use any of this against the Lyke McDonald et al “gurus”.
I just wanted to add that momentum and energy were invented mathematical quantities only. They are not things, , nor stuff at all.Just an invented mathematifal quantity to describehow acrual things or stuff works. So many people have trouble with this. Everybody from Kevin Hall, to Lyle McDonlad to CarbSane abuses and misuses energy and talk of “energy’ as if it is some stuff or thing floating around in the unuverse. Nothing coukd be more wrong or further from the truth.
Energy is strictly-strictly a number.An invented mathematical quantity that is very useful. Energy is purely mathematical, nothing more. Feynman and many other too level physicists have noted this.
Calories and joules etc.are not at all actual things, nor stuff. Energy ,itself, is a number. Purely mathematical fiction. But useful. The units we use-calories, joukes are not stuff or thing either-at all. I bet you will shock your doctor when you correct them about energy and that “calories” are not stuff, just some unit we use to measure an invented mathematical fiction, some useful.
A huge pizza with topping is loaded with carbon atoms real actual things. Matter. Stuff. Calories are totally fictitious.
Take care, buddy,
Professor Bungc#ck Razz LOL!
LOL!
Yes, “calories don’t exist. Energy doesn’t exist.” LOL!
Listen, energy is a measurement, like height. Both are concepts that have various characteristics we use to describe them. The “quantity” we expend in order to push a book across a table at a constant rate is referred to as “energy”. Any moron that has pushed a book across the table at a constant rate is aware of this expenditure. Therefore, even a moron will agree energy “exists”.
I suppose force is also am “invented mathematical quantity”? LOL! LOL!!!!
Even a child who has pulled a wagon would agree “force” is a “thing”, and therefore, given its relationship to force, energy is “thing.”
Hey Matt, how are your teeth these days? Have you any advice for someone who has softened and damaged the teeth and gums through a lethal combination of acidic diet sodas, stress-related grinding and brushing too hard? I am so scared and depressed, I fear that my teeth will fall out through overzealous dental hygiene and wrongheaded attempts at healthier living! Is there any advice you can give me, mainstream or otherwise? I’m trying to hold it together, but nothing seems worthwhile if I am going to suffer chronic tooth sensitivity for the rest of my life, and even tooth loss if the gums recede any more.
Hey Christina,
I’d definitely try to get your minerals sorted out with Dr. Garrett Smith. That’s a good place to start. If you can’t afford that you might try with a few simple experiments:
1. Remove all acid foods
2. Go to brushing your teeth only once or twice a week, and DEFINITELY do not brush after eating anything acidic
3. Take a couple of Min-Col capsules with each meal
4. Take some vitamin K
5. Get more sun and sleep
6. Increase your calories and get into a more anabolic state
7. Test your saliva pH (if it’s very acidic, say, below 6.4, let me know and we can discuss some options for making it more alkaline)
I view remineralization and rebuilding the enamel as two fairly separate processes. The biggest mistake I see is that when people have bad teeth they immediately start brushing them more, particularly right after eating, and this is terrible for your enamel. You can’t rebuild enamel furiously brushing the shit out of your teeth several times per day.
Matt – thanks for the tips on dental healing! I am trying to heal receding gums too. I worry that if i don’t brush at least a little, the food will stay stuck in the pockets where the gums are receding. Do you know if massaging will help pull them down? it feels good. Any other help with teeth would be amazing. I had braces for years and am moving my teeth back into their original positions and it is INTENSE.
I think finding something hard to chew on would be helpful. I think about this a lot. Seems like all animals love to chew, but we humans don’t do it. Maybe with chewing gum, but something harder would be better. It’s sounds ridiculous, but I have actually been thinking about going to the pet store and grabbing some rawhide to chew on to strengthen my teeth.
Also, water picks can be great for stimulating gums and cleaning around the gums without being too abrasive.
Check out Michael Mews on YouTube. He’s a british dentist that is all about combating maloclusion and poor facial development. His theory of modern maloclusion is basically oral habits and chewing, as opposed to Weston Price’s nutrition theory. I’m inclined to think they are both right. He recommends gum. I wish I could grow sugar cane! He has an amazing jaw and face too, because he grew up with these ideas and is really just continuing and expanding the work of his father. fascinating lectures and one of the more interesting things I’ve run across in recent years health and development wise. I’ve tried to make all of my friends with kids watch him. I can’t think of one of my friends and families kids that didn’t have orthodontic work and many had teeth pulled unnecessarily. It’s barbaric.
Thanks dude. You know I love that shit. I’ll let you know how my dog toys turn out, lol.
Fuck yeah dude. I’m loving Michael Mews. Thank you so much. I haven’t been this excited about something health-related in years. 5 minutes and I’m totally hooked.
@Christina
My teeth were always in good health and started majorly suffering and declining too when starting this. My teeth were rapidly eroding,thus shortening,looking yellowish yet also translucent. Not standing nice in line next to each other anymore. Just like you,I was scared that I was gonna lose my teeth too.
According to this and other symptoms that came on again and on top some new things that started to happen, I started to take out foods again to test if they were related to these things. They (sadly) were.
Now I’m basically condemned (it’s kind of a hate/love relationship) to my old diet (keto/Bulletproof foods)
My teeth on this have stopped eroding,it actually seems like I have some enamel again. They’re straight in line and they’re whiter looking (no translucence and no deep yellow color.)
All this,while I still drink tea like I used,consume Vit.C/ascorbic Acid powder and I drink ACV and lemon juice straight up without diluting.
This isn’t to say at all that you should adopt a similar diet ,but that it could be that foods that you’re eating are causing this ; nutrient deficiencies and/or leaky gut,feeding pathogenic bacteria. (Honestly,I don’t know what it was for me,but I’m guessing one or all of these issues. However with all the anti low-carb/keto propaganda,this makes me nervous that I’m eating this way bc I’m most likely harming myself in other ways.)
Anyway,just saying that your teeth can get robust again…the difficult part is figuring out what made them worse for you and how you can get and keep things back on track.
Thanks so much for your advice, Dutchie and Matt!
Dutchie, I’m sorry to hear of your past problems with teeth and gums. But it is very inspiring to hear from your example that they can recover their robustness! Like Matt says above, in terms of diet it is essential to be eating enough to get the body into an anabolic state with ample nutrients so it can rebuild itself. I think your Bulletproof-style diet would be pretty low-acidic which is good. Though maybe some starchier foods like potatoes and squashes would be fairly safe too? I remember Matt’s video about how his teeth were getting stronger eating all the sugar he wanted, and Joey Lott has a book on a similar theme. The restorative powers of a high metabolism sound truly amazing. I don’t think I am anywhere near the stage where I could eat all that yet, so I think I will be focusing on getting adequate calories from low-acid meats, dairy, vegetables and non-grain starches for now.
Matt – yes, I’ll see if I can get some Min-Col, thanks for the recommendation! I think it makes sense to rely more on acid-neutralising rinses rather than aggressive scrubbing at this stage, and I have bought a soft-bristled toothbrush and non-abrasive toothpaste. I have also bought a mouth-guard for the grinding issue, so we’ll how that works out. The situation feels a little less nightmarish, now, thank goodness! :)
I’ll make you an organic rawhide deer chew toy! No, I’m too busy. For a while I was buying ripe coconuts and chewing the hell out of the meat. That’ll work your jaw out. trouble is you have to buy to get one good one that’s not spoiled. Yeah, no shit right? He’s a game changer. Maybe you can give him some play with your influence. My efforts have been somewhat disappointing. I’ve been looking at us more lately through the lens of physical degeneration. Just that one aspect alone is deeply disturbing, but it goes far beyond and I think there are a lot of repercussions from those deformities. I’m not ready to abandon Weston Price’s theory altogether, but Mews is clearly onto something.
Christina —
I’ve found some really helpful things on these 2 sites: http://www.healingteethnaturally.com/
http://www.freysmiles.com/blog/view/re-balancing-your-oral-ph
The first site has tons of different tools. The second one will show you an easy homemade mouthwash to balance your pH before brushing.
Hey Turtlegurl, thanks so much for those links. The alkaline mouthwash in the second one is going to become part of my new pre-brushing routine, it’s so easy to make!
I have been adding methylfolate to water and using this as a mouthwash prior to consuming. My gums are regenerating doing this, pockets have actually decreased in size.
I know this is a bit off topic, but it relates to how the Internet gurus out there abuse “laws” of physics to blame obese people and sell their products.
Fast recap: (Energy is not a thing or stuff floating aruond out there. Stuff- examples of stuff are magentic fields. photons, atoms ,protons etc.Photons are not matter but they are definitely stuff- particles. Energy is BOOKKEEPING, A NUMBER.
Energy is a very useful NUMBER WE HUMANS ASSIGN to actual things like atoms.Calories are totally fictitious. The REASOn is energy itself is not anything but a charcteristic. The UNITS for energy are not anything at all either. Just a useful mathematical fiction. When peopel are eating lots of calories whatthey REALLY are eating is LOTS OFCARBON ATOMS. There is NO SUCH ENTITY in food called “calories.” There IS carbon atoms and other atoms etc. Foods like veggies are mainly water- water is excreted easily. Foods like pizza with suasage and cheese have LOTS of carbon in it,.
Calories cannot EVER- EVER=EVER turn from a NUMBER into human body fat. ANYBODY with a DEEP understanding of the topic of energy understands that energy is JUST an asbtarct charcteristic we humans assign,. Its units to measure it are ALSO FICTION. YES, calories are FICTITIOUS. This may surprise many people. Calories are UNITS- joules, BTU- all units to measure the SAME math ficition. Energy is very useful to calculations but it is NOTHING BUT A NUMBER ONLY! Feynman HIMSELF STRESSED this. A NUMBER. Atoms are actual STUFF.
Matter and energy do NOT- turn into one another. Lev Okun STRESSED this. it is a very common mistake,. I will take on ANY guru about this because I am in the right ion that issue. Einstein NEVER SAID, NOR implied energy and matter turn into one another -EVER. These quotes you see are BOGUS Inteent articles. Nowhere in his books or papers will you see Einstein ever say energy and matter are the same. AND THAT IS NOT what Eo=mc2 means at all!
Calories ( no different than joules or BTU) are one of MANY unecessary units we use to measure this abstarct mathemaical quantity we CALL energy- Calories ( and joules etc.) are totally fictitious and abstract matghematics- concepts cannot turn into STUFF- FOOD- OR BODY TISSUE Whetehr you hear Colpo, McDonald, Stephan or anybody say this they are 100 % incorrect. Energy and matter are as different as heaven and girrafes. I have numerous particle physicists as sources for this. Wikipedia is NOT valid.
Now volts are different Volts are a measure of elctric TENSION. Electricty is NOT energy it is STUFF. Even Dr David Katz of Yale could not grasp this! Photons, electromagnetic fields, atoms, rocks, orange juice, protons, electrons – they are ALL STUFF.)
On to main points:
Now, TIME may very well be a real phenomenon it appears just like gravity is a phenomenon. Lee Smolin suggests TIME is much more fuindamental than any law or principle of physics. Feynman and Dirac echoed similar views. Here are some quotes from the greatest minds in phsyics ever- guys with incredibly deep thoughts and insight :
“At the beginning of time , the laws of nature were probabaly very different from what they are now. Thus, we should consider the laws of nature as continually CHANGING witht he epoch, instead of holding uniformly throughout space-time.”
– Paul Dirac
“The ONLY field which has NOT admitted any evolutionary question is physics. Here are the laws WE SAY……. BUT HOW did they GET that way , IN TIME?……So, it MIGHT turn out that they are NOT the same [laws] all the time AND that there is a historical, evolutionary QUESTION.”
– Richard Feynman
Feynman also said “Nature’s imagination is SO much GREATER than man’s that she is never going to let us relax.”
Einstein said something very similar – when he said we will likley never see the lion, ONLY its TAIL.
Ed Witten and David Deutch AGREE too – they ALSO belive humans will likley never reach the FINAL DEEPEST “laws.” No such principle exists likley. Nor would be knwo if we ever did.
John Wheller( the great physicists and teacher of Feynman) said ” There is NO LAW OTHER than the law that there is NO LAW.”
As Einstein suggsted KEEP QUESTIONING. “Be a loner. That guives you TIME to PONDER, to SEARCH for the truth. Have holy curiousity. make your life worth living.”
Einstein’s deepest thoughs laynig ther foundation for General Relativity were sprung during his DAY DREAMING- HIS IMAGINATION AND CREATIVITY. Thought experiments and mathematical reasoning and using principles of symmetries of Nature.
Some of the greatest scientific minds in history, the DEEPEST minds such as Paul Dirac, Richard Feynman and Einstein were not at all dogmatic * unlike the dogmatism of many lesser physicists, biologists and medical doctors etc.)
Little known fact: Einstein, in 1911, WAS THE VERY FIRST PERSON PONDERED IF the speed of light MIGHT be variable. The VRY FIRST guy to BE WILLING to GIVE UP the constancy of the speed of light. The point is he ALLOWED that it could be wrong,. Internet gurus and calorie zealots do NOT. There is no shortage of evdience debunking the calorie model. What is the answer??? I do not know. But I DO think UV from sunlight matters a large degree inthe pieces of the puzzle. There is some involvement- at least in normal case fat gain.
The domatic guys who FOLLOW Einstein are far more dogmatic about asking this question than the MAN himself. It IS possible that the speed of light is VARIABLE- Physcists has an EXCELLENT lecture about this! Some evidence points to this. Einstein had deep insight, he did not hink Black Holes could form ( as we know them today) Indian physcists Abhas Mitra has a CONVINCING argument against Hawking that TRUE Black Holes do not exist= like we thought previously. Newton, Einsetin and Feynman= spooky insight.
THE LESSON IF Einstein QUESTIPNED the variablity of the velocity of light WE SHOULD NOT be dogmatic EITHER.
24: 48 mark:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qlCp1x57pow
Just be wary of the Internet gurus who talk about physics to sell their products. The physcists I talk to laugh at them and do not like it.
Obesity is not 1/10th solved. POORLY understood. many questions remain about insulin but thast does NOT mean that the calorie idea is correct. Those who criticize Tauibes non-stop like Hall and CarbSane do NOT have obesity even remotely figured out and their OWN suggestions are WRONG,. The same lame stuff ( carbSane’s outdated views) guys like Friedman and Rosenbaum are trying to debunk. Obese people are DIFFERENT from normal people.
Guys like Dr. Friedman are the leaders in the field and doing QUALITY work. Food reward is just another addition to the MISCONCEPTION that obesity is caused by mere overeating- it is not. Those with gene mutations and defects will becoem OBESE IRRESPECTIVE of eating carbon atoms- food intake. Many, many obese peoel do NOT overeat. Many thin people DO.My own sister in law is 100 pound and 5 feet iof that- she eats like a typical 280 pound muscle headed man practically-think Brock Lesnar.
Dr. Friedman ( and others at the top level) are aksing the RIGHT QUESTIONS. CREATIVE INSIGHT. Hall etal ARE NOT. In science, as Smolin nots, the QUESTIONS are how we make progress- the QUESTIONS are far more important than the answers even. The Blogpshere – most of them – are all asking ‘WHAT CHEESE IS THE MOON MADE OF?”
Hi Razewell,
You seem to know some pretty interesting stuff about “calories”. I’d like to ask you some questions. Can you email me at joshanrachel@gmail.com
Matt, what do you think is the cause of Type 2 diabetes? So many people in keto are convinced high blood sugars and therefore high insulin are the causes. It’s been enough to convince me to go keto twice but both times I’ve suffered from severe health issues like getting far too lean and developing amenorrhea despite sufficient caloric intake. Something about keto makes my body think it’s starving. It also exacerbated my low thyroid symptoms. So should I worry about high insulin that results from eating higher carb foods as I “eat all the things” after being low carb?
So they think a disease of high blood sugar is caused by having too much of the hormone that lowers blood sugar? Interesting.
Yes, I’m aware of their beliefs. Their beliefs are completely incorrect.
Classic type 2 diabetes is basically a failure to clear glucose out of the bloodstream and into the muscles and liver after eating a glucose-heavy meal. Going keto actually WORSENS glucose clearance. That’s because excessive blood and intramuscular fat interferes with glucose clearance. Low-carb diets also raise the hormones that INCREASE blood glucose.
If you’re worried about diabetes, you should be worried about cortisol, not insulin. You should sleep more, lower your stress, eat lots of carbs, exercise with proper recovery, and keep your metabolism high.
Adding carbs after Keto and seeing your blood sugar go through the roof should confirm the damage that keto does to your glucose clearance, not scare you into thinking that carbs cause high blood sugar.
Thanks Matt. Both times I went keto my health tanked. Cold all the time, dry skin, low libido despite eating a TON of low carb high fat food. I’m so glad I’ve left it behind. But I have worried about diabetes because my family has struggled with it. Why do you think the idea pervades that its caused by high insulin?
The belief is that eating foods that stimulate insulin in short-term spikes causes desensitization of insulin receptors over time. It’s just a silly theory that sounds simple but it’s just not true. There is so much more at play. And you can see that raising your carbohydrate intake can even lower your insulin levels dramatically. http://180degreehealth.com/starch-lowers-insulin/
What happens an hour after a meal is pretty irrelevant. It’s important to look at the whole picture spread out over time. Long-term low-carbers almost always end up with high insulin and high blood sugar!
The modern diet is much higher in fat and things that slow the metabolism and interfere with glucose clearance than traditional human diets over the last several thousand years, and diets of other primates. Our modern lifestyle is also high on stress and mental stimulation (stress) and low on sleep.
These are some of the reasons diabetes is becoming more prevalent.
The best defense against diabetes is optimizing your metabolism and glucose clearance. Ketogenic diets don’t help with either. They lower insulin and blood sugar in the short-term. BFD. You don’t get type 2 diabetes in a month. It takes decades.
Great response…I will read the article on starch. I think I’ve had a lowered metabolic rate for a very long time. It’s a mental hurdle to get over the idea that more food and rest improves this. But I’m all in!
Yeah our whole society has been brainwashed by the idea that you can’t accomplish anything in life without suffering. Not true though. The body does not always respond well to suffering.
So,basically I took one road of being f*cked to another one…:/
It’s obvious that in a lot of the health/bloggosphere low carb/keto have bad reps in regards to health.
What I wonder though,is that ketogenic diets (not the media keto with sugarfree crap) have been used to treat children/people with epilepsy and some other serious (chronic) health issues. Would that mean that these people automatically end up in worse health?
In regards to a high metabolism,the period I was doing it, I noticed that I drastically started to age (deep visible wrinkles,cracked dry skin,sparkle and color of the eyes (blue) started to look more dim&grey)
There’s this guy (EriktheElectric) on YT who does a lot of eating challenges and insanely high caloric challenges. He seems to have a high metabolism,yet I frequently read comments from viewers asking if he’s in his 30’s or commenting that he looks old,while he only is 24.
I wonder if a high metabolism makes one age faster?
A high metabolism doesn’t make one age faster. Eating a huge amount of PUFA probably will though.
Hmmm…..I can see from a lot of the foods that guy eats,he probably gets in quite a dose of PUFAS.
In my own case,at the time I was very strict in avoiding PUFAS,I even stopped eating fatty fish.
It’s clear from your recent comments and articles that you’re not a fan (to put it lightly;)) of lowcarb/keto diets. I wonder though what your thoughts on some true ketogenic diets being used for medical purposes in children with epilepsy for instance. Do you think these children will grow up with low/damaged metabolisms?
I wonder if there are some people with damaged brain (inflamed brain,lesions etc.) function,who would be better off running mainly on ketones…
Isn’t it true that insulin is only 8% of the serum’s insulin-like effect? Does the body have many fail- safes to prevent blood sugar from dropping too LOW? Yes. Will low blood sugar make you faint or go into a coma? Yes. Does the body make a person feel agitated and anxious when the blood sugar drops, making the search for food a priority? Yes. Do attempts to lower the blood sugar by drugs, herbs, or ketogenic or low carb diet -ing result in the body turning up the mechanisms to keep the blood sugar even higher? Yes. Is our blood sugar controlled by our bodies to keep us alive related to the food type and amount we choose? Yes. If we eat too little or not enough food easily converted to glucose will our bodies be forced to turn our own muscle tissue into glucose and keep this going in a steady stream? Yes. Is that because every cell in our bodies needs glucose to function? Yes. Is every instance of high blood sugar the original diabetes? No. Did the original diabetes involve the loss of sugar in the urine until the sufferer grew weak and died? Yes. Was the original diabetes cured by doctors by replacing the sugar lost in the urine by the equal amount of regular table sugar eaten with a spoon? Yes. Does one need to manipulate the blood sugar in any way except by eating a diet abundant in all the easily assimilated glucose sources? No. If we eat too few calories, if you intermittent fast, or if you do low-carb or ketogenic diets will you raise your blood sugar? Very likely. Our body needs to protect itself from our intellect.
“So they think a disease of high blood sugar is caused by having too much of the hormone that lowers blood sugar? Interesting.”
hahaha – This is one reason I love you, Matt.
No homo. ;-)
You have to be careful on a ketogenic diet in that you keep your protein around 60g tops, and you get most of your calories from saturated fat [butter, cream, ghee, ruminants, etc]. Most people eat way too few calories and way too much protein, or they eat a lot of PUFA and pork. Also, on a ketogenic diet your carb tolerance will go down because you develop physiological insulin resistance to spare glucose for your brain, so if you want to pass on OGTT you need to eat 150g carbs for three days to restore sensitivity. Physiological insulin resistance is just an adaptive response, and is nothing like pathological insulin resistance which is basically diabetes. Blood sugar can elevate to a slightly higher basal reading as a result of the physiological insulin resistance, but this isn’t really cause for concern.
Matt has experience regarding tooth enamel that I do not have. I think his suggestions are excellent. Eat low acid (I like soda as much as the next guy but it really does harm enamel used too frequently), do not brush too vigorous or often. Maybe use a toothoaste friendly toward building enamel , do not smoke (ignore if you already do not) It is veey important to have direct experience but those suggestions seem very good.
There is no such method called “The Scientific Method”. No such singular hard and fast method exists. Professiinal scientists knkw this, especially physicists. Any top physicist woukd verify that what we all learned in grade school is nonsense. Science as it is lracticed by the pros is just careful human inbestivation-PIDDLING as Feynman described what he did, carefully considering alternatives, being honest to other members. Einstein worded what he did as “a refi ement of everyday thinking.” There are parameters with science but NO singukar hard and fast method. Pro scientists employ literally thousands of methods. In fact, many important discoveries were PURE SERENDIPITY.
This is why I avoid science popularizers. They are misleading kids. The Scientific Methkd (the poster you see in 7th grade ckassrooms is abject nonsense. It is a total myth and bears little to no resembkence to how Einstein, Darwin or Feynman actually did their work. Unuversity California Berkeley has excelkent article about how there is NO “scientific method”. Scientists are like tinkering, piddling opportunists who take extra care to try not to fool themselves. Being honest, trying not to fool yourself, and openly communicating with other humans in the science community is probabaly how it works-50 years down the line or so we will see what ideas we held that were wrong.
Nobody really knkws WHY our science works pretty well. Smolin suggests because the science community will eventually know if the idea you proposed is correct or not 50 years from now etc. And that we communicate with others in the community. Scientists are held together by an ethics code in princiole, but much deceit and greed happens in the real world. Cooperation among humans over the years, trying to be honest and transparent with their results , observations is likely how science works. Google Lee Smolin.
Best Mediterranean climate wishes,LOL!
Razwell
Matt!
I’m about 3 weeks in to trying to get my metabolism back in shape and I have to say I am seeing more and more progress! Mostly, I want to say thank you for the work you do! The longer I do this, the more clearly I see how insane and disordered my relationship with food and body and exercise has been for years. Like I’m putting more and more distance between my superficial self and my true self. I’m not sure what it is exactly but it seems like your knowledge and encouragement has been that last push I needed to really let go and be myself again. My body is larger than it’s been in years and I don’t like that necessarily, but I’m so much more able to say “oh well, there’s so much more to life.”
Physically, my morning temps have gone from 97.3 to a solid 98 in three weeks of eating more SSSS and drinking a lot less water. I’ve still been working out 5ish days a week, but doing more things I truly enjoy and trying to listen when my body says no.
I am still breastfeeding my 22 month old. We are weaning and I’m wondering if my temps would be even higher if I wasn’t nursing? Also I take my temp vaginally since this is what I’m used to with natural family planning. Should I be looking for my morning temps to be more in the 99 range since vaginal temps run higher than oral?
Awesome! Yeah, I think you could stand to bring that temp up even more, and I do think it will help when you get back to non-nursing hormonal levels for sure.
Comment
All the fitness forums ban me isntantly when I bring this up: Not a single “calorie” ever, ever, ever turned, morphed, change transformed into atoms, speciically carbon atoms- matter- human bodily tissue.
Energy is a number, not at all stuff whatsoever. Simply an abstract purely mathematical fiction we find useful.
Matter ( what food and bodily tissue is made of) is stuff that comprises the unievrse.
Nobody eats caloiee or joules etc. You cannot eat concepts and math fiction. People eat ATOMS- these ATOMS ( matter0 are ABSORBED int he blood during digestion. ATOMS add to your tissue,. We humans need to replenish carbon atoms. It is carbon atoms that we eat. “Calories’ a fictitiosu uinit are in drectly related to actual stuff- CARBON ATOMS.
The expression “burning calories” makes no sense scienticially and is not at all what is happening. You cannot BURN a CHARCTERISTIC, A NUMBER, A PROPERTY!!! Further, the process o fhuman metabolsim and cellular respiration operations is a “chemical oxidation redox reduction reaction”- UNLIKE fire , whic is totally indiscrimate, out of control, totally wild and totally chaotic oxidation, the body’s processess are extremely selective to the maximum very controlled- a super selective long controlled chemcial cascade is a good way to describe it.
Diegeston has NOTHING in common with the indiscriminate processes of FIRE- which is totally chaotic, toally wild oxidation. Setting food on fire does not and never did EXPLAIN human mammalian fat cell dusregualtion. It is irelevant. Feynman would note setting soemthing on fire, food or otherise, just shows how much carbon atoms and oxygen atoms LOVE to be TOGETHER. Big whoopty do. We KNEW THAT.
Feynman explains fire here. You will have a better understanding of the CONCEPT of energy watching this. Atoms are matter. When they jiggle a lot they are said to “have more energy” DUE to their increased motions. The jiggling atoms of the fire bump up against a container of water above it, exciting THOSE atoms that make up the container, which excites the atoms of the water and it gets hotter. Vibrations of atoms.
Energy is a number, a very abstract charcteristic that ACTUAL STUFF ( ATOMS) are said to HAVE , a FICTION, we assign to these jiggling atoms, in fire they jiggle wildly totally out of control.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cFyrGbk65eQ
These people in the nutritional industry are pseudoscientists. It chapped Feynman’s ass the nonsense they promote.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tWr39Q9vBgo
Now let’s try to EXPLAIN something actual RELEVANT to OBESITY: fat cell regulation and dysregulation. gene defects and mutations,. gut microflora, diseasde states, etc……
Calories do nto become tissue. it is not possible for energy to transform into mater, stuff, atoms. it is strictly a charcteristic, a useful math fiction.
Here is an awesome article epxlaining how energy and matter are as DIFFERENT as possible and should never even be thought of in one’s mind together. Remember, Einstein NEVER, EVER, EVER, EVER said energy and matter are the same- EVER. Einstein would be pissed if he saw all the phony Internet quotes attributed to him that NEVER appear in his books or research writings..
: This article is written by a particle physcist. Kevin Hall et al do not know what they are talking about:
https://profmattstrassler.com/articles-and-posts/particle-physics-basics/mass-energy-matter-etc/matter-energy-a-false-dichotomy/
How strange that CarbSane, Hall, McDonald et al constantly bring up the conservation of energy principle , YET their OWN proposal that calories(one unit among many used to measure energy) can somehow magically morph, turn, change or transform into MATTER-ATOMS-FAT TISSUE DOES -D-O-E-S very much TOTALLY VIOLATE the conservation of energy principle. Call these hucksters out on it and tell them I sent you. LOL!
Energy, an abstract mathematical quantity, some number, cannot “transform” into anything…. that isn’t already energy. This is DUE to the conservation of energy principle.
*Very Important* : Matter and energy are N-O-T related- at all. Nor should they even be paired in one’s mind together. All elite particle physicists fully understand this.
Despite what you hear by the hokey science popularizers like Bill Nye, Sagan or Tyson, or in the popular science forums or magazines, matter does N-O-T turn or convert into energy or vice versa. Only ^particles* are ever transforming into one another.
My sources are top high-energy physics experts such as Lev Okun.
This is for the benefit of Matt’s readers. Sorry to use up additional space. Take care, everybody,
Razz
Hey Roswell I tried to email you back but the email won’t go through. I have one more question can you email me again? Joshanrachel@gmail.com
hey Matt thank you for responding previously, after dieting a few years back i know for the last couple of years have mainly craved processed foods, no desire for healthy stuff, some of it feels sinus related,fast food relieves them, this has been a couple of years now, i do feel energetic when i eat these foods, i just don’t crave fruits veggies that often,or grilled things, i just eat what my body craves, how long should this go on? is it dangerous? thank you
I would think it’s safer than having chronic sinus infections. But you should definitely explore other ways to get calorie-dense, palatable foods that get the same results other than fast food.
Hi Matt,
Its wonderful to see you active again. I am glad you are finding your mojo back again and really appreciate your honesty and admission of “faliure”. Isn’t nice to just be yourself , chill, relax and just talk about these stuff person to person without the burden of health guru and all that baggage it brings with it.
I discovered your stuff some time last year and went from very skeptical to hmmm, maybe this would work. Though i have nice tummy to embarrass myself, but all that increase in sugar, food and all that calories seem to do good to me – nice poop, better sleep and wonderful freedom from being a food police. Who knows , maybe i actually lose my weight and one day I have a nice flat belly. Lets see.
An interesting thing I notice know is I am making my progress when i increase my calories and seem to slow down when going back to normal , the way I used to eat before. Which is funny, because I think i got fatter due to all that emotional eating. Maybe, the emotions behind eating the food makes a huge difference.
Anyway, i quit rambling here. But , Matt, I really think you should do a brand new FAQ section now. I can sense a certain fatigue and you seem tired of answering all these questions people throw at you How about your next post, you post all your current musing/ opinion on sugar, diet , calories, coco cola, coffee …anything which people seem to ask you repetitively..eh?
Thanks Tor. I’ll see what I can do, haha.
Hi Butter Believer,
I e-mailed you. : ) Feel free.
My challenge to the Internet gurus is open and these bullies are SILENT. I have shut them up for good.
Cellular respiration does NOT convert matter into energy. Veritasium even did a video about ths once.
Nor does energy rturn into matter. Matter and energy are N-O-T related, as any genuine physicist knows. ( despite what you hear all the time)
. These hucksters are scamming everybody, yet they continually bash Gary taubes. It makes no sense. I know for a fact that an incredible physicist ( in nuclear physics ) a past Nobel winner thinks VERY HIGHLY of Gary Taubes’ health work.
Anybody claiming that “energy can somehow morph or transfrom into matter” or vice versa is a total science abusing fraud. There are so many bogus Einstein quotes on the Internet. TOTAL SILENCE from Dr. Hall, Lyle McDonald et al. Yet these same BULLIES ( McDonald/Hale et al) ( Hall is wrong bt seems like a fairly pleasant ( but dogmatic) guy) always picks fights with random people on Facebook. They claimthey dispell myths. Actually, they ( McDonald) are perpetuating one of the biggest myths.
I encourage everybody to call them out and demand to exlpain how energy or its units could POSSIBLY transfrom into atoms- fat cells- matter.
Razwell, your comments are a joke. Is your name a joke as well? Razzing (teasing) Matt’s readers well? Clearly the body can convert food into things that it can use for energy, fat, muscle, bone and organ tissue. Your claims about particular physics denying the ability to convert food or energy into things are as convincing as Zeno’s paradoxes. They’re a joke. Quote a scientist directly who denies that the body can convert food into cellular energy (ATP) that it can break down into energy to do work. You seem to be emailers with Taunes who is also an unscientific joke and a so-called “science popularizer,” which you do not like. His theories are garbage & we can propose other theories. For example: Taubes says that Japanese sumo wrestlers are fat due to eating more carbs but they also eat 2-5 times as much protein as the normal lean Japanese people who eat 300g of starch a day in defiance of idiotic low-carb religious dogma. I read his book GCBC soon after it came out & he even mentions luxus consumption or the body’s tendency to waste lots of energy when protein is limited. So that could explain the sumo obesity along with sleeping after meals and drinking lots of beer and exercising on empty stomach & eating socially, as Chief Rok explained years ago in a blog post about the sumo. All such strategies cause maximum fat gain. So please stop razzing the readers and quote actual scientists and real scientific terminology like ATP, which the body can break down into ADP & use for energy according to Oxford Dictionary.
“emailers with Taunes” should be “enamored with Taubes.” Sorry for the typo. Razwell makes so many typos it’s hard to understand what he/she writes like mentioning some scientist named either Hall or Hale; that really narrows it down. Razwell talks in circles and hypes garbage,
I don’t agree with Lyle McDonald & Anthony Colpo and others pushing calories as the whole story or even the main point. Calories do not say anything excejpt what happens in a bomb calorimeter. Raw calories are not the same as cooked ones. What happens in the body varies considerably based on a person’s metabolc rate (cellular energy use) and as such “calories out” is not an independent variable. It depends on what you eat, how you exercise and sleep, how much sunlight and nature you see, etc.
I will challenge Lyle and Anthony Colpo (whose last name is Latin for vagina) or anyone in Calorie theory camp to eat an isocaloric diet equal to their current diet but they only eat restaurant fried chicken, French fries, mayo, soybean oil dressing, donuts, Mountain Dew, Doritos, processed meat, etc. I eat the same calories I eat but with no PUFA oils, hydrogenated or bromated oils and no HFCS or fried food or processed meat, etc. I’ll eat coconut oil, while milk, macadamia oil, natural meat, dried fruit, juices, dark chocolate & potatoes & other simple foods.
I bet their body composition, mood and energy level suck and I feel just as energetic & positive as I do right now generally avoiding PUFAs and trans fat and food and HFCS. Keep on eating that way for 10-20 years. Let us see how their body looks & how they feel and function mentally, physically and sexually.
Looking at calories as the main factor in Body fatness is insane and asinine. The reductionistic calorie theory ignores or marginalizes stuff like the impact of sleep, sun, gut bacteria, hormones, metabolism, free radicals, inflammation, and lipid pwroxidafion. There are all kinds of studies that show animals gaining more fat esp GUT fat from PUFAs and partially hydrogenated oils and high fructose corn syrup. I say Calorie reductionists will have.a beer gut no matter what if they just replace SOME food isocalorically with KFC, donuts, fries, Mountain Dew and other garbage. They don’t even have to replace all their food. Just replace 10% and they will see noticeable gut fat, depression and fatigue probably. Calories are just one small factor in a person’s body fat, let alone health.
I do not “hype” nor type ANY ” garbage.” I am far more intelligent than these gurus conning you. I communicated with Lev Okun. Energy is NOT a thing, nor stuff. It is merely a characteristic WE ASSIGN to actual stuff like protons, photons, objects.
Energy and matter are NOT related. I am far more educated than McDonald, Colpo, Hale, and I understand specific aspects of physics much better than Guyenet or Kevin Hall.
I get tited of typing the same articles so I get sloppy. Energy is ONLY A PROPERTY, NOT, ITSELF, ANYTHING . This message has more scientific support than anything Guyenet, Colpo, McDonald or Krieger ever wrote.
Again, energy and matter are NOT related. My sources have lineage to the greatest nuclear physicists of all time.
In fact, I have issued a public challenge to Colpo, McDonald, Guyenet and Hall to refute my above points. They are SILENT because Okun was far brighter than all of them put together. I liked Stephan-he is not inherently bad but he is kind of rude a bit. Friedman is doing far superior work. Stephan should stick to neurology. Dr. Friedman is a heavyweight.
Nobody eats calories NOR joules or BTU’s (all the same-just units- you uneducated accusatory guy-units to measure some NUMBER we call energy. Some ABSTRACT , purely mathematical quantity.
Neither energy, NOR ITS MANY UNNECESSARY UNITS ARE THING-OR STUFF-AT ALL. AT ALL!.AT ALL! Physicists do NOT even like the calorie-it is old and outdated and they would prefer to DO AWAY with it in favor of joules. A Nobel Prize winner in physics told this to me.
People eat FOOD-WHICH IS MATTER. You are eating many many carbon atoms if you have a huge pizza with toppings. This MATTER-CARBON is absorbed in your blood…. PEOPLE NEED TO REPLENISH CARBON.SO THEY EAT.
There are LOTS AND LOTS of common science misconceptions held by laymen like yourself and even very low level physics teachers.
THERE IS NO MATTER TO ENERGY TRANSFORMATION EVER OR VICE VERSA. YOU WILL FIND BOGUS EINSTEIN QOUTES ONLINE. HE NEVER, EVER SAID THEY ARE THE SAME. They are NOT related. I TALK TO PARTICLE PHYSICISTS! I will not waste my time with you any furthet. You are a typical physics illiterate Internet commenter.
As Richard Feynman himself STRESSED- You are NOT eating some thing called calories…..
Internet people cannot seem to grasp this. Energy is ONLY A PROPERTY WE ASSIGN. NOTHING can ever BE energy. It is not a thing….
Again my sources are cream of the crop physics Ph.D.s- heavyweights.
Calories are NOT things or some mysterious stuff in food…..
“Calories” are indirectly related to CARBON ATOMS. CALIRIES CANNOT TRANSFORM INTO BODY FST. THAT PROPOSITION ALONE WOULD VIOLATE CONSERVATION OF ENERGY. MATTER AND ENERGY ARE NOT-NOT RELATED-AT ALL.
If you were more polite I would link you to my top source.
Stop being conned by guys like Hall. Being published means NOTHING as numerous physicists have noted in lectures. Wearing white coats and having journals does not constitute science either, as Paul Lutus stessed. Feynman and Einstein were REAL scientists who did great work.
I know my sh#t, guy. I will gladly privately show off my TOP sources….. But not to you.
Colpo, Hall-they are all misinformed and misusing physics. As Steven Weinber said, “thermodynamics” CAN NEVER, EVER BE USED AS ANY-ANY kind of explanation for ANYTHING! He has a big article mentioning this….
Obesity is a biological problem, NOT PHYSICS-TOP PHYSICISTS STRESSED THIS.
.It is a damn shame these TRUE INTELLECTUALS LIKE WEINBERG ARE NOT KNOWN TO THE PUBLIC. S agan, Tyson, Coxx etc- just popularizers-averge scientists at very best.
Weinberg is the great mind.
There is NO-NO-NO-NO ” TRANSFORMATION of matter into energy” or energy into matter in nuclear reactions , NOR chemical reaction.
Nuclear reactions are ONLY transforming PARTICLES- STUFF.
ABSTRACT MATHEMATICAL FICTION CANNOT TURN INTO OBJECTS.
LEV OKUN WAS VERY , VERY CLEAR AND EMPHATIC ABOUT THIS SPECIFICALLY IN HIS BOOKS. HE WAS A GREAT SCIENTIST WHO NAMED HADRONS.
YOU are the joke. YOU are uneducated. I am NOT Razzing anybody.
YOU ARE GROSSLY UNEDUCATED. ATP IS MATTER-MOLECULES. NOT ENERGY! STOP ABUSING ENERGY….
Again, as OKUN STRESSED NEITHER IN NUCLEAR REACTIONS, NOR IN THE BODY ARE THERE EVER ANY MATTER BEING MAGICALLY TRANSFORMED INTO ENERGY-WHICH IS NOT AT ALL ITSELF A THING….
This is easily verifiable. I will not waste time on you anymore. I gave you NAMES ALREADY…
Science popularizers spread MISINFORMATION. I can name numerous YouTube gurus and book salesman like Brian Cox, Tyson and more spewing misinformation about E=mc2
The CORRECT equation for objects sitting still is E SUBZERO Eo=mc2. The ONLY energy being put proportional to mass is the REST-ENERGY. There does NOT-NOT exist a COMPLETE equivalence between mass and energy as claimed by YouTubers… When we have mass, we indeed have energy.BUT YOU CANNOT REVERSE THE STATEMENT.
And Matter is something ENTIRELY DIFFERENT FROM MASS AND ENERGY-MASS AND ENERGY ARE ONLY ABSTRACT PROPERTIES.
So how do you go about improving glucose clearance? I found out last year that I had gestational diabetes, and lucky me, it didn’t go away. I have a history of reactive hypoglycemia and during the three hour glucose tolerance test my number went from 215 at one hour to 155 at two hours to 43 at three hours. That’s ridiculous. I would think that years of being super stressed and underfed and being on wacko diets didn’t help anything. After I gave birth five months ago, I got so stressed out over the diabetes that I had panic attacks and just about quit sleeping. I’m getting six hours per night now and don’t have anxiety anymore due to melatonin, Benadryl, St. John’s word and GABA supplements and a butt load of food. But how do I go about trying to change things? During the last weeks of pregnancy I ate so little to keep my numbers low and exercised so much that I lost ten pounds in six weeks during my third trimester and the baby was delivered four weeks early bc she wasn’t doing well, big surprise. But my numbers were great! *eye roll* After pregnancy I tried eating super low fat, high starch, but my numbers just went higher. I’ve finally quit testing my numbers for now and have been eating a lot more food. Haven’t gained much weight, but I feel better in many ways. Still get sick if I go too long without eating, but after I eat I feel sick too. Light headed, pressure headaches, dizzy, fatigue. I do eat a lot of fat now simply bc it’s a quick source of calories. Saturated and polyunsaturated. Peanut butter and toast is my fave, pretzels and cheese is divine, and almonds with cookies is superb. Not restricting anything except too much junk food, bc I feel horrid after eating it, just eating until I am full. Some days that could easily be 3000 calories. Anyway, I read about improving glucose clearance, and I would love to try, but how specifically to do it, I’m not sure. What do I eat? What do I do? I’m not wanting to obsess over it, but if I could get my blood sugar numbers under control, I’m sure I would feel even better.
Matt,
I increased my calories, gained weight, normalized my metabolism, and stabilized at that point. My body lost every single pound that it gained in the process, but it wasn’t by forcing myself to eat even more calories than I already was. For me, it turned out to be a very clear pattern of loss. My appetite would pick up significantly, I would lose approximately 10 pounds, and then remain stable at that weight for several months. That pattern repeated itself over and over, without my interference, until my weight returned to its normal set point. Naturally, it took several years for my body to get back to its set point at that rate, but it can happen if we remain patient and not get in our body’s way.
I know this may not be true for everyone, but I just wanted to share that for anyone else that it might be helpful for. During the re-feeding period, it might be necessary for some to push the calories until their body reaches the point that it’s comfortable consuming 2500+ calories, but I found that it wasn’t necessary to push the body after that point. Once the body, at least for me, has healed, it can take over and lead the way without our interference.
Wishing everyone good health!
EmmaW,
Congratulations on your success! Would you be willing to share your age? Or, approximate age? :-)
I’m just wondering if you’re in your early 20s, late 60s, or somewhere in-between. I think age probably makes a difference, with regard to how long someone may have been on a bad path.
Wishing you much continued success and good health!
Lazlo
Thank you. I’m in my 40s, and peri-menopausal.
EmmaW,
Thanks for sharing! I am curious, were you doing any sort of exercise while refeeding? I have been eating 2500+ calories daily(lately more like 3000+)for a good while now and I have seen my temp come up, but it is still not as high as it could be and I notice it dips way down right after I weight train or do other vigorous exercise. I’m wondering if the exercise is hindering my progress in normalizing my metabolism.
Thanks!
No, I didn’t exercise AT ALL during recovery. The only thing I do now is walk, and I don’t mean speed walking. My walking is normal paced walking. That’s it.
Hi Emma and Matt,
Emma- that is impressive what you were able to do! I am curious about any of you and Matt’s thoughts on a couple different things. About exercise…I was wondering about whether weight training might be beneficial because doesn’t having more muscle increase your metabolism and calorie burn at rest? I was also wondering your thoughts on taking thyroid medication. I was started on thyroid meds 9 years ago during the post-partum period with my daughter which is a classic time to have hypothyroidism. I was never taken off (even though it may have been just related to having a baby and breastfeeding which is common) and have only had to keep increasing my dose since then. I have actually gained 70 pounds since going ON the meds ( also from yo- yo dieting ). I never seem to be able to get the right med or dose. I mentioned earlier that I just went through another pregnancy in 2014/2025 where I lost weight during pregnancy but gained 30 pounds post Partum. I recently began to exercise somewhat aggressively this fall and lost 20 pounds but have stalled since November. I am thinking I halted all progress and messed with my metabolism again. I didn’t restrict eating at all though except to cut out gluten which I was having very bad reactions to. I also am up to 195mg of naturethroid plus 75 mcg of levothyroxine!! I am starting to wonder if I need to wean off the meds and see if my own thyroid kicks back in. Any thoughts on all if this? Any advice???? I am so overweight now not sure what will help
Well, I can’t speak about the exercise part. I know they say that weight bearing exercise, which creates more muscle mass, is supposed to burn more calories at rest. What they translates into in real life, I don’t know for sure. All I know is that I didn’t exercise at all, and I lost all my weight. Not only did I lose my weight, but it seems that I maintained some muscle mass from recovery itself because I reached a smaller size being the same exact weight I was before I started recovery. Since muscle is more compact, and takes up less space, that would mean my muscle to fat ratio changed despite the fact that I didn’t exercise. So, what that means, I don’t know. Maybe things are different when someone is in recovery??
As far as your thyroid is concerned, you need to get tested, if you haven’t already, for hashimotos. If you have hashimotos, you will likely always need to remain on thyroid medication. So, check that out first before you make any decision.
This gives me so much hope Emma, thank you for sharing. I’ve received a lot of signs that this is the year I finally regain balance and head in the direction of weight loss, but I need to keep reminding myself that the total process could last a few years more and to be patient. ive been feeling somehow that my 40s are going to be great in this way, and I’m a couple years off from that mark, so here’s to hope and perserverence!
Yes, several years is more realistic for most, I think. It was approximately a four year process for me, from beginning to end. I will honestly admit that it was really hard to be patient, and not lose hope that my body would sort itself out. I don’t know how, but I didn’t give up. I just knew that I never wanted to go back to dieting ever again, and knew that I didn’t really have any other option but to keep on the path that I was on. I’m glad I didn’t give up, despite the difficulties that I came up against along the way, because my patience was ultimately rewarded. I know that everyone’s experience will not turn out like mine, as each person’s journey will be different, but you won’t know how it will unfold if you don’t give it a chance. Ultimately, in the end, each person has to decide what is most important to them.
Hi Emma,
Yes I have been tested at least 3 times and I do not have hashimotos. Never had any elevation at all in antibody levels- they have always come back normal. I know sometimes they say the tests don’t always show it but I have had multiple tests done at different times. Mine is probably a case of functional hypothyroidism not related to the actual thyroid itself.
That’s encouraging. It may just be a matter of taking supplements that support thyroid function while slowly decreasing your medication, and seeing what happens. I would not stop the meds cold turkey, nor without supporting the thyroid itself.
Also, I’m sure you are doing this, but the thyroid needs plenty of carbohydrates in order to function properly, so make sure you’re getting enough carbohydrates.
Good luck getting that figured out.
Hello Matt, and others…
I am new to this community and I need some advice! I am 29 just had my first child almost a year and a half ago and have had my thyroid checked numerous times but this time I had my doctor check for tpo antibodies and though my results came back so called within range to me it raises a red flag that there is even a number showing up on that test. My TSH is 2.14, and TPO Thyroperoxidase Ab 26.8, Thyroglobulin Ab <20.0. I have low estrogen and progesterone too. Does all this point to Hashimotos? Where I live it is SO hard to find a good dr and I just have no clue how to pursue this other then with what and how often and how much I eat. Coming off of a low carb high fat diet I am very greatful I found this site!! because I am SO DONE with dieting and avoiding food groups it's just MADNESS!!! Though my fasting BS is normal I still feel like i get highs and lows throughout the day, and since bringing carbs back in I have noticed that much more! Insulin resistance possibly? How do I go about fixing this? Slowly starting to sleep better and feel warmer my temp used to be around 35.5 C (I am from Canada btw haha) I should also mention that I had gallstones and liver problems during my pregnancy and my son had to come early because of my liver!Then after having my son i ended up with pancreatitis! and I ended up doing a liver flush which helped of course but then my friend told me to do a parasite cleanse and all this and pretty soon I was just turning into a HUGE health nut and as it turns out all the veggies I have been eating has been doing more harm then good too much water not enough calories!! Plus being a new mom is stressful…Anyways any thoughts as to what I should do? sometimes I just feel so sluggish and foggy that I can hardly function! and I have a husband and a son to look after…I should also mention that my LDL is higher then my HDL and that has never happened! I have always been lean and trim for the most part gained some baby weight of course then dropped it fairly quickly then gained back…just been fluctuating! It's so frusterating :(
Matt totally hoping to hear your thoughts on all this…I have tried supplements all that jazz…and I have been reading your book diet recovery as well.
Matt,
Do you think some bodies simply do not respond well to this type of recovery? That it’s not a good fit, biologically, for everyone? Will you still feel like this has been a failed endeavor if you have not lost your weight in a couple more years time (assuming your current loss is just the holiday weight you mentioned you had gained)? I’m sure many others, especially those who are currently in the same situation you are, are wondering, “What now?”, “What do I do?”, “What went wrong?”, and would like to see that be addressed in some manner, or, at the very least, acknowledged.
I followed the “eating more” path to try and rev up metabolism ,
and be able to eat normally to hunger signals without gaining weight.
I pretty much followed much of Eatopia’s (Gwyneth- forget her last name?) guidelines.
However I gained a bunch of weight (masses in a few mths), my body was unrecognizable to myself, and not in a good way.
It was in fact incredibly traumatic.
The weight was not coming off naturally at all –
I gradually ditched some of it over years , by trying every thing I could to maximise health and metabolism without food deprivation.
In the end I went back to minor intermittent calorie restriction, to try and get rid of some of the remaining weight that I was not comfortable with –
and I am still doing this.
I worked out that I was happier with light food restriction – than no food restriction and living in a body I was not comfortable in.
However being in my late 40’s, my skin did not bounce back from the gain and loss, breasts dropped, skin and flesh tone has been lost. Premature aging has occurred from head to toe due to the looser crepe-y skin thing.
Basically, I would not recommend this approach to someone who cares about the cosmetic appearance of their body.
I see it as one of the most bitterest mistakes I have ever made.
At the end of it all, from my own experience,
and reading the boards of what was happening to other people,
I have come to these kind of conclusions;
For some people, the path of eating heaps does not lead to metabolic healing,
all that happens is that they get fat, and then develop a bunch of other complicating problems from the fat gain like,
estrogen dominance
leptin resistance
insulin/blood sugar imbalance issues
immobility
and whatever else!
These things tend to just lead to more weight gain,
and the the problem compounds in upon itself.
Initial problems in the body are exacerbated by the gain,
while the metabolism can still be unhealed,
or,
some other bottom line issue can be still unhealed..
For myself, I regret the path – though at the time I felt my back was against the wall, and there were no other options left.
In restrospect, I should have continued as I was previously doing,
ie, light caloric restriction.
Because in the end – this is what I have had to go back to anyway, to normalize bodyweight-
however – with a bunch of skin and other cosmetic damage now to boot!!!!!!
Another friend who similarily followed the Eatopia guidelines ,
got very very fat,
and is still at the weight years later- and is also very unhealthy to boot.
It has not made her healthy or happy,
nor does it seemed to have healed or body in any way- more the opposite – all existing problems she has seemed to have been exacerbated
I earnestly read Billy Craig, and lots of Matts stuff,
and Gwyneths stuff over at Eatopia,
and thought myself on a path to healing and being able to eat and maintain a normal weight –
by taking the reins and restrictions off eating and giving my body what I thought it needed in terms of energy, and “non-dieting” etc.
However, it didnt really work out like that for me.
I think there are more factors going on in the body when it comes to weight, and even well-being,
than just healing the metabolism by eating more food,
or ,
eating for heat,
or similar.
It seems that some bodies, just have this tendency to fat, and like to stay there – even if you do everything right!!
I think the answers are problem a complex of physical and metaphysical factors.
Personally I have gone searching in every corner, and still dont think I have the answers as such.
I just know that some things dont work for some people, and that the answers are not packaged and one size fits all.
Emma managed to naturally return to a good weight without food restriction,
I did not,
even though I did many of the same things as her –
(we have followed each others paths closely..)
I wish the hell it had!!!!
Thanks for sharing your experience. I’m reading everything here to see if this will be right for me before diving in. But seems like it can backfire and maybe the book “The Secret Life of Fat” does ring true for some of us. I highly recommend that book. It concludes that there are a set of the population that just are not in the eating crowd and the reasons can be varied. I want to be able to eat what i want and lose weight so bad.
Nola- I agree with you, because my situation has been pretty much the same. However, I believe that my hatred of my body (I was nuts- I wish I was the same weight I was when I first thought I was fat!) created Hashimoto’s thyroiditis from the stress of attacking myself.
All the years of dieting has made it difficult to feel hungry, and I feel full right away. I have to force myself to eat. I am working on snacking as much as possible to keep my body temperature higher. But the crazy thing is my temperatures are the lowest in the morning and highest at night no matter what.
I’m still a work in progress- on meds for Hashimoto’s- suffering from slow digestion (low stomach acid). I practice stress relief daily; and working on accepting what is…. my body may always be fat. But the good news is: fat people who are “fit” live longer than skinny ones!
I’m 65 – I work with women who have body acceptance issues to relieve stress, and help others understand why they should NEVER ever diet – to relieve stress. LOL- see a pattern here?
What is your age range? What’s your stress level? Work on the stress- is my recommendation….
Matt!!! I love you fat or skinny! Thanks for all your research and help during these past several years! I know that you have helped me and hundreds of people find hope and better health after suffering years with disease! I don’t see any failure with that! Disfruta tus aventuras en centro America!
Ah, ignore that last phrase
“I wish the hell it had”
that was an error..
Nola, were you recovering from some kind of restrictive eating pattern or over exercising? You reference Eatopia so that’s why I ask. I am recovering from being on a keto diet (my second attempt) which again ended in me having low body fat, no period, and compromised thyroid function despite eating large amounts of “keto friendly” foods. (Read: nothing but meat, fat, and non starchy veg for 6 months). As I “eat all the things” again, I can feel my body’s metabolic rate shoot up when I really put away the calories, especially from things like desserts and carb-y stuff. When I eat a lot of dessert at night I wake up feeling incredibly hot, my heart rate speeds up, I have the urge to run around. Did you experience these symptoms when you began eating larger amounts? My guess is if you experience these effects from increased energy intake it is an indication that your body is responding well. I get your discomfort in gaining so much weight. It can be quite difficult to deal with. I hope you have been able to address the psychological issues that accompany any kind of eating or body struggles. I knew I needed to regain weight after being on keto, but it was the emotional underpinnings that needed the most attention. When we are vulnerable to trying to control our bodies with food or exercise it usually indicates there are some unresolved feelings you haven’t dealt with. I wish you all the best as you find a place that you feel comfortable with. It is always a strong pull for me to implement some kind of caloric restriction. But despite that practice resulting in some weight loss, our bodies will inevitably fight back. When we physically or mentally restrict food, it will come back with a vengeance in the form of binge eating to the point of discomfort. I learned this the hard way after recovering from restrictive eating and over exercising twice. When you don’t allow yourself to eat without judgement and you are mentally restricting foods or amounts of foods, it will lead to out of control eating when you finally crack. I have found it most helpful to just eat whatever, without judgement, when I feel like it, and this has been the key to not eating to the point of discomfort. Just my experience, but our bodies are wise to our attempts to manipulate them.
Hi Erin
When I followed Eatopia I was not coming from a restrictive food disorder or over-exercise position.
At that point I was pretty much as balanced as you could be about food and exercise,
except that to maintain normal weight, I basically had to go hungry, if I ate to hunger I gained and gained.
Basically the guidelines and writings of Gwyneth reassured me that I could let go, and eat to hunger, and my weight would stabilize,
then the excess would naturally drop off –
(within a year according to her stipulations at that point – which she later changed…)
She reassured that you absolutely would lose the weight!!!!.
Her writings seemed to make sense and she offered such surety about it – that I thought I could finally trust and leap off the cliff- even though my repeated experience to date had shown me otherwise.
i just thought – maybe all those other times when I tried eating to hunger and gained and the weight never normalized or ceased its gain cycle
I was just doing things wrong – maybe I just didnt let go enough, was exercising too much, didnt eat enough, and so on..
However the things that Gwyneth wrote could not be relied on – I lept off the cliff only to crash at the bottom in the most painful way possible.
Her reassurances have shown not to be true,
both by my experience, and a very great number of other people.
I followed the boards for a few years- Eatopia and Uzilu (a sister group to Eatopia, following the Eatopia guidelines).
What I saw from other peoples experiences is that many people were gaining huge amounts of weight,
100+ pds,
still gaining weight 2 yrs into the process,
and not getting well, getting more physical issues,
ill-health, immobility etc,
and –
not losing the weight, rather, often still gaining a long time after any gain should have ceased.
And going to BMI’s of 40+ …
What was happening in reality to people did not reflect the writings of Gwyneth.
Weight overshoots/gains were extreme, and natural weight loss was not forthcoming . (Gwyneth was talking 10-20% weight gain overshoot)
A few people had a success that was closer to the path that she laid out, but these were few.
There were far more train wrecks.
And to be honest, there is not much comeback when you have gained 100 pds or more,
and gone to BMI 40+
The kind of damage that occurs is somewhat irreversible even if you could somehow manage to lose all that weight.
I believe we should be able to follow natural hunger- eat when we are hungry, and stop when we are not,
and maintain a normalized weight by doing this.
However , for me, despite trying everything possible to facilitate this state,
it hasnt happened for me.
And I have really gone to the nth degree to achieve this,
what I have detailed here is the briefest amount of my history of exploring diet and exercise and health, and bodily balance of weight and eating – both physically and metaphysically –
(my whole history would take a book!).
Basically its been my lifes work to find answers in this arena, so I dont write what I write lightly, or without experience and reasonable knowledge .
I dont really advocate diets or food restriction, not at all. I know there is a big kick back physically and psychologically.
But while restricting food is not good,
neither is living in a body that makes you sad and depressed and unhappy and uncomfortable!
For myself, the current compromise is a kind of minimal intermittent restriction, (a small calorie drop every 2nd or 3rd day) –
this is all my body will countenance anyway.
I dont advocate it, or think its the ideal thing –
its just the best compromise/solution I have come to for myself right now,
in the lack of any better solution!
It is interesting that you found your way to a site about ED recovery when not actively recovering from one. Also Matt’s work advocates a similar approach as Eatopia, I am wondering what keeps you interested in this site when you feel it’s principles have failed you? I am sorry to hear that you have been through such a difficult journey. As I mentioned I am currently recovering from being on a ketogenic diet for the second time. I know weight gain is part of the process. I admit it is scary to me but I also cannot go back to any time of physical or mental restriction of any foods. It destroyed me psychologically and compromised my health. So I am having faith that my body will find an equilibrium again. I was in a metabolically healthy state prior to starting keto, not “overweight.” I am eating to appetite of exactly the foods I want. I find I need to feel a little full right now in order to stop fixating on eating more. That is ok. I am not bingeing on crazy amounts of food. I just eat what I want. I am not aiming for a specific number of calories. I think there is some excellent research on the Eatopia site. I am sure that it doesn’t work for everyone and you of course have to do what feels right for your body. I hope that your current approach helps you feel more comfortable and that it is something you can sustain in the long run.
Actually, many of us here found Your Eatopia through Matt’s site. Ongoing interest is natural when you would like to see how others, who have been at this just as long, are doing after so many years. I have been following Matt since 2012. I recall Nola being here at that time as well. We are veterans, if you will.
BTW, YE supports those who are recovering from dieting as well – healing the mind and body, whatever the cause. EDs just happens to be its primary focus.
Hi Erin
Mainly I keep an eye on sites like this because I am interesting how people are faring,
I want to see whats working for people,
and also see if there is any new info/answers out there.
I hope it goes well for you in your journey – I have done low carbing, and keto a while back in the past –
I was fortunate at the time to find the right information to be encouraged to ditch it,
and I would not recommend it to people.
Definitely it causes long term issues – suppresses thyroid, etc.
I still believe in some of the principles of Eatopia, but lost faith and trust in a lot of the stuff when I saw that the things Gwyneth said clearly did not come true!!!
She was wrong about weight overshoots,
she was wrong about the weight coming off,
and some other things, that just dont come to mind right now.
Also I lost trust when I read an old entry of hers on another site where she detailed her own diet and calorie restriction plan from a couple of years back before she started Eatopia..
and other sideline issues that occurred while I was at Eatopia…
all the best..
Overall, Stephan Guyenet is a pleasant person. However, after corresponding with him in 2012, there was a break for 2 years or so. I was always polite. I shared info.However, the last year he ignored everything, no respinse. I took a damn long time to type out nuclear physics info to show him. Namely, the finer piints of nuclear physics. I also included another topic: It dealt with Eo=mc2.
i explained how mass is a Poincare scalar that is always the same in different refernce frames. And that energy is a a Lorentzian scalar, the forth component of a four-vector and is DIFFERENT in different reference frames.
I do not want to bash the guy, he is overall nice. But he was a bit rude and dicky. I shared inside info.
Stephan was a promising , young upstart researcher from 2008-2010. Then in the summer of 2011, AHS 2011, he has been on a kick to do the opposite of whatever Gary Taubes says. Guyenet has sold out , is promoting a book-he joined forces with CarbSane, Krieger, Lyle McDonald, et al.
Taubes has a great contribution-to make tge public aware of what the GREAT Austrian scientists of the 1930’s, 40’s were doing, what they found. Namely, the HORMONAL idea. Yes, insulin only may be too simple, but fat cells are goverened and regulated by hormones. The Food Reward idea is wrong from the outset. It is merely a continuation of what we ALREADY KNOW IS WRONG-the idea that mere overeating is the cause of obesity. Manyn
obese people are NOT overeating, many lean peopke DO. To his credit , Guyenet acknowledged this. This acknowledgement makes me even more puzzled why he supports Food Reward model,,,,It is just another version or extension of the discredited simpke overeating model.
Taubes is brighter than Hall, Carbsane, McDonald, Colpo, and Steph. This may be why they do not like him.Nobel physicists admire him. That says a lot. Taubes is on the RIGHT GENERAL PATH. HORMONAL.
Overeating is not the cause of true severe obesity. I do not understand why so many Internet people are infatuated with these gurus who have Ph.D.xs in b#llshit fields-such as nutrition or sports “science”. Neurology is valid. But…..there are cream of tge crop Ph.D., like Dr. Jeffrey Friedman of Rockfeller, Dr. Mike Rosenbaum, Dr. Leibel.
A real genuis, FREEMAN DYSON IS PROUD NOT-NOT to have a Ph.D. And he is smarter than Guyenet, Colpo , Hall and me combined. Dyson calculated the numbers of atoms in the sun before age 9 or 10. Dyson’s knowledge is far greater than most official Ph.D.’s….
What IS FRUITFUL obesity research?
*Reversing the chemical mechanic efficency that develops in the muscles of weight reduced obese people. Reversing this sympathetic denervation or non-physiologic state that develops, as Leibel noted in lectures.
*Single gene defects specifically which are totally responsible for the severe obesity in at least 15%-and that number gets bigger and bigger every 5 years of new discovery-as Friedman noted
*Genetics
*Gut microbiota
*UV radiation effects on fat cell regulation-UV damages fat
*Deeper molecular level understanding
REAL science is moving AWAY from calorie idea and on to other things.Friedman notes obesity is HIGHLY POLITICAL. And unfortunately, Guyenet has gotten caught in this trap or voluntarily joined the politics.
The calorie idea is wrong. There is no shortage of research showing its lack of predictive power.
Even the expression “burning calories” is not only what is NOT going on, but it makes no sense whatsoever. Matter, not caliries, not energy, matter is what goes through the extremely selective chemical cascade:chemicsl oxidation reduction redox reaction. This is NOT remotely the same as the wild, totally chaotic, totally indiscriminate oxidation that is fire.
Fire is NOT energy by the way.Even Dr. David Katz of Yale did not know this!
It is hard to type on a Tablet. My fingers are only a little shorter than Michael Jordan-who was a far superior fundamental basketball player than ANYBODY playing today.
Forgot to note:Those people with these single gene defects and mutations will become very obese IRRESPECTIVE of food intake-CARBON ATOM INGESTION.Friedman stresses this!
Notice I did NOT say “calories”. NOBODY EATS calories.They are not at all things. Eating calories is common colloquial usage but NOT what is actually happening. You cannot eat some non-existent “non – thing.” You cannot eat a characteristic, a property. Grass is green. Yes Grass IS green-no. Shaq is huuge! Yes. Shaq IS huge. -NO.
To lose body fat, you must EXCRETE CARBON ATOMS. VERITASIUM of YouTube did an episode of how the body does NOT-NOT convert matter to energy, despite the common myths. Thatt is impossible. Neither does nuclear fission, nor fusion….
Not a single calorie was EVER somehow magically transformed into bodily fat, which is matter composed of atoms. Such a proposition that a concept could turn into an atom WOULD contradict conservation of energy principle. HOW IRONIC THAT despite always mentiining (and abusing) conservation of energy principle) WHAT CARBSANE ET AL PROPOSE VERY MUCH CONTRADICTS conservation of this number called energy.
Calories, units to measure abstract math fiction, CANNOT AND DO NOT TRANSFORM INTO OBJECTS-ATOMSZFAT TISSUE.
It is the CARBON ATOMS in your food that added tissue to your body. If you upped your food, you upped your ingestion of CARBON MATTER-life is carbon based as WEINBERG NOTES.
Veritasium is brighter than Lyle, Colpo, Hall etc. Keep this in mind:Despite the crap science popularizers spew:
The ORIGIN of the universe is NOT KNOWN to any physicist. Yes, you read that right. Weinberg, a REAL scientist , a heavyweight, stresses this.So does Alan Guth, another giant. Tyson et al mislead the public.
There is SO MUCH WE DO NOT KNOW AND LIKELY WILL NEVER KNOW, AS ROBERT OPPENHEIMER TALKED ABOUT. OPPENHEIMERVWSNTED EVERY UNIVERSITY GRAFUATE TO KNOW HOW LITTLE WE ACTUALLY KNIW. OPPENHEIMER WAS BRILLIANT.
WHY ARE THE LAWS THE WAY THEY ARE? THAT CANNOT BE KNOWN.
Type error: (I was doing three things at once early this morning-whoops-did not concentrate:
I meant to say energy is a scalar-an observer dependent scalar, the fourth component of a four-vector (E, p) and energy is different in different reference trames. The amount of energy depends upon the observer.
Mass is a Lorentzian invariant scalar and is the same in different reference systems.
Momentum is a vector quantity.
Both energy and mass are only properties OF actual stuff.
WOW! I only wish I were smarter, so I could fully appreciate just how impressed I should be! I’m just smart enough to know that I’m not smart enough! :-)
I always enjoy your writings, Razwell! You force me to look at things from a different perspective – which I appreciate! Most of it goes over my head, but that’s okay, because it causes me to ask new questions and work harder!
Bravo!
You are bright, Carl, and a nice person. : )
I just try to put in effort as a layman and look into things. Over the years I have learned.
I highly recommend Lev Okun’s books on relativity theory and the ABC’s of physics. That is a huge source for me, my own learning etc. Okun was awesome.
Hope you are doing well.
Best tropical wishes, (laughs)
Razwell
The kind comments are much appreciated, Professor Razwell! :) Your writings are always thought-provoking and I think you are nice, too.
Thank you for the Lev Okun book recommendations. Yesterday, I Googled each of the people you referenced and that led me down a rabbit hole for each of them and even some of *their* mentors. Those folks were/are beyond brilliant.
I even went to the Veritasium YouTube channel you referenced, as I’d never heard of it before. Really great stuff and a bit more understandable to a layman like me.
If I have anything going for me, it’s a quote I took from Clint Eastwood’s character Dirty Harry.
“A man’s got to know his limitations.” LOL!
Be well, my friend!
Sincerely,
Carl
Cheers Matt Stone. Although your work is no different to the work of Weston Price Foundation, can I ask, is it true that metabolic water, the soup that is in us, if we eat a healthy fat, that it will render into water to use for metabolism? If so, does that mean that fluids are there really if you go long hours without food?
Forgot to mention:
Dr. Kevin Hall has a new meta-analysis out. Well, if one is starting with all the wrong questions, all the wrong premises as well, it does not matter how many studies are done. Paul Lutus notes this-if you start with a discredited model or premise (calorie model) nothing will come of it. Also , even if ine asks the right questions, if one offers no explanation or none is even attemoted-it still does not matter the sheer number of studies only describing.
Simply being published means NOTHING, Dr. Lawrence Krauss (a real scientist and intellectual) stresses this over and over in lectures. Lots and lots of crap is published. The only thing that matters is if your work is interesting, provides insight, results, others take it up and use it and it grows and grows. Such IS the case with Dr. Jeffrey M. Friedman’s (Rockefeller University) leptin work and his single gene defect/ mutation work. It is much, much higher quality than the stuff Hall, CarbSane, McDonald are promoting.
Gut microbiota is important for health. Now, for fatness it appears promising-but is weaker than gene defects etc. currently. Friedman ranks gut microbiota as “needs much more work.”
We need to identify these specific strains better.
Obesity is ungodly genetic. Friedman’s work and others’ research shows this. It is only a smidgen less hereditary than height. Genes CAN CHANGE in only 25 years. Friedman stresses this in le tures and hows examples and hkw the common view is wrong.
One of the greatest genuises ever-Isaac Newton -said the number of experiments is immaterial, rather it is the WEIGHT of the experiment/experimemts that is to be regarded. Newton also said that we have to START with the right questions. Einstein also said we must start with GREAT questions-the right questions.
This meta-analysis is all based on the erroneous behavioral/calorie model. Hall is asking the wrong questions and starting with assumptions and wrong premises. It does not matter one iota hiw kany studies they give citations to or how many meta-analyses if they are all grounded in discredited, outdated models.
Here is an example: Seasons are NOT caused by Greek Goddess Persephone. This was the starting premise and assumption of the Ancient Greeks and it was used to support the Greek Myth Of Seasons. However, all the variations on this myth-no matter how many times they changed it, to fit the observations, would not have gotten the Ancient Greeks one jot closer to understanding seasons.
Wewill get closer to so ething useful IF we SEEK GOOD “hard to vary” Expkanations. D. Deutsch’s vjdeo is
SUPERB about good explanatiins. The axial tilt of seasons is a lrime example of a good explanation that is very hard to vary.
Dr. Hall seems like a decent and good family man from Twitter pictures. He also seems to have a sense of humoir. . I appreciate that and respect it. But he is misguided u fortunately. Onesity is not even 1/10th solved. It is my wish that Guyenet and Hall drop the Food zReward nonsense -another variation of the discredited calorie model and go on to do great work.
Lyke will continue to peddle nonsense , but Guyenet has the potential to make contributions and get somewhere. Friedman has this i quisitive ooen minded creative mindset which is what makes that guy so great.
I will leave with a quote from Einstein: Never lose a holy curiousity. Mystery is at the heart of all science-and art.
Obesity IS mysterious-Pacific Ocean sized unknowns. If u derstanding obesity were a Marathon, we would only be at the 400 meter mark and crawling. We are on the very, very tiny iskand of knowledge pushing outwards in a great , vast, vast sea of ignorance. There are things we knkw we are ignirant of. Then, there are SOME situations where we are too ignorant to know that we are ignorant of LOL! Davud Gross noted that.
Take care everybody,
Raz
Hey, Matt. I had a consult with you about four years ago and your advice freed me from paleo/WAP/orthorexic obsession. I gained about 25 pounds but avoided a fullblown eating disorder and felt so much healthier. Since then I’ve had my fourth child and lost my appetite. He’s fifteen months old now and my appetite is returning, but I’ve lost 40 pounds over my pregnancy weight and, I’m just being honest, I don’t want to get chubby again. How can I begin to eat normally without gaining a ton of weight? My temps are fine and I feel healthy, despite eating only about 1,200-1,800 calories a day.
https://www.edinstitute.org/blog/2011/9/14/i-need-how-many-calories?rq=Hunger
That was an interesting article. But I have no symptoms of starvation. I’m my hungry, I’m warm, I’m nursing so I’ve just started my period but I believe they will be normal (of course, they were always normal. Even throughout my most restrictive diets.) So if I’m not technically starving myself–because I’m not hungry and my body isn’t behaving like it’s starved–then how can I raise my calorie intake without gaining a ton of weight? Or should I just keep eating how I’ve been eating (non-restrictive but light on calories)?
Hello everybody,
Not to be off topic but here is some interesting stuff:
Contray to what Hall and Lyle McDonald erroneously believe, “energy” is a DESCRIPTION of motion, NOT the cause. When objects are in motion they are said to have more energy than standing still DUE to motion. As Feynman noted, it is incorrect to say “energy” made a childxs wind up toy move. Energy is a purely jathematical quantity that is conserved during motiin. See? I am causi g quite the stir among the gurus scamming eveeybody. Energy is ONLY abstract mathematical fiction, strictly a NUMBER that we humans find very useful. All particle physicists know this. There are acrually people out there who erroneously believe that energy is a substance, or thing, or stuff or subaromic particle. No, it is simply a NUMBER.
Photons and electromagnetic fields are STUFF. Electrons are matter . Photons , while not matter, ARE STUFF-OBJECTS. This ismunlike energy, which is not some stuff, neither tangible, NOR nebulous and intangible. Energy is not itself anything but a useful number.
Enerfy is NOT stuff at all-just a number attacjed to actual things like atoms , photons, magnetic fields.
*The electromagnetic force governs all chemical reactions in the body-all of biology. Atoms move because they are constantly banging into each other and have a sort of perfect elasticity. Even at absolute zero there is some motion. Energy is NOT the cause of motion.Rather, Energy is a DESCRIPTION of motion.
*Here is another interesting experimemt. Do this safely. : )
Stand totally still with your arms down at your sides. Now, start to twirl around, now go faster and faster-your arms will start to raise upward. The reason? Mach aksed this question and speculated. Einstein figured it out. This has to do with Einstein’s gravitational theory (Newtonxs cannot explain this) The reason for this arm raising effect is centrifugal force , this effect is due to the rotating heavens above us (the stars themselves are rotating around a zenith) create this sort of force field on Earth similar to magnetism .
Call these McDonald et al people out!
Hey Matt,
I’m continuing to see progress as my morning temp is up from 97.3 to 98.6 in 5 weeks! I’ve even seen my temp get up to 100 at some points during the day! I have noticed though that I can get a vaginal reading of 100 but an oral reading which is a whole degree and half lower. So should I go with the vaginal reading and consider my metabolism restored, or do I go by the oral?
Hi Emily,
Any tips on how you got your temps to rise so quickly? I can relate to your last post where your morning temps were ranging in the 97’s to 98. That’s right where I am and have been for a while now.
Thanks!!
Quinn
This article is mentioned on the “Critical MAS” blog…
https://criticalmas.org/2017/02/is-there-a-metabolic-unicorn
Hey, Matt:
Since you’ve read several hundred books on “health,” I would appreciate your perspective on something.
Putting “weight” aside, have you any opinion on the advice of such people as Joel Fuhrman, Caldwell Esselstyn, T. Colin Campbell, Jeff Novick, Pam Popper, Hans Diehl, and Joel Kahn?
You know their deal: A low-fat, low (animal) protein, high fiber, “whole-food plant-based diet” with no oil.
I purposely didn’t mention John McDougall, as all he can talk about is “Starch.”
– “Eat a starch-based diet.”
– “Starch fueled the growth of civilization.”
– “Every large, successful population lived on starch.”
And on, and on, and on…ad infinitum.
Anyway, Esselstyn interests me in particular, due to a couple of his talks I’ve found on YouTube.
One lecture discusses using the aforementioned diet to reverse a significant coronary blockage in one of his colleagues.
Another lecture talks about how even “heart-healthy” monounsaturated fats (like olive oil) lead to the same progression of cardiovascular disease as people eating saturated fat.
Now, for the record, I’m not a vegan or vegetarian. I do eat beef, fish, and fowl – including eggs. But, I eat a lot less than in the past.
After being brainwashed by the low-carb hysteria a few years ago, I finally started bringing beans, fruit, and starch back into my diet. Love me some 180 Tatey.
Anyway, the plant-based leaders are pretty uniformly slim while many of the Paleo/Low-Carbers/WAPF people are overweight and look terrible.
What’s your perspective on the advice from the plant-based gestapo?
Later, tater.
I think most people would find it easy to lose weight while traveling – moving into new surroundings, new people , new cultures – it is one of the most powerful sources of positive stimulation available. I also found it very easy to lose weight while eating basically what I wanted when I moved to a new country with new job and social circle. And now 2 years later when the novelty of this situation has mostly worn off and I’m getting depressed about the lack of direction and purpose in my life, I’m finding it more difficult to maintain good health even though my lifestyle is basically exactly the same.
I do think positive stimulation, i.e. doing things that you enjoy and make you feel alive, as often and regularly as possible, is probably one of the most important but underappreciated keys to effortlessly enjoying good health. I’ve also been heavily into meditation and trying minimise “harmful” stimulation like solitary multimedia entertainment and such for the past year, but am growing increasingly skeptical that it is in any way beneficial. Like if listening to music or playing video games truly brings you joy and makes feel alive, it will probably be of benefit to your mental and physical health, as compared to sitting on a park bench or doing other “wholesome” activities that you dont actually particularly enjoy. On average, an activity like soccer or boxing is probably gonna be way more beneficial to health than running on a treadmill simply due to latter two actually being fun or even exhilarating.
Probably actively taking charge of your life to make it an active goal to enjoy life as much and as often as possible, doing the things you truly want to do as much as possible and not what you think you should be doing or should be enjoying – including eating exactly what you want with as little mental interference into dietary choices as possible – is the best you can do for your health.
Matt by the way, are you familiar with the writings of Andrew WK? I find his life philosophy very thought provoking, he’s seems like one of the most striking examples of the “adrenal type” you wrote about much earlier. Really just boundless ball of energy, he both exercises and eats a lot, but I think more than anything he owes his good health to his attitude to life – like total dedication to just doing what you want to do, and even making that into your lifes purpose, to have fun and party. It seems like the more slavishly people follow their true inner desires, the more authentic their lives, the less unconscious emotional tension they’ll have and the better their health.
Hi Buck,
I am not Matt -but I have some experience with Dr. Esselstyn-personal e-mail, as well as studying his stuff since 2009. I cannot say too much on the other people you mentioned-do not knkw their motives.
As a human, I respect Dr. Esselstyn. He had advised and dealt with former POTUS, Bill Clinton. Dr. Esselstyn was willing to call a lowly commoner ( (me) personally to discuss ways of eating. I respect that-he dealt with a former president and makes time for everyone-even the common man. Not many people do that. He sincerely believes in what he preaches. However, it is sincerely misguided. Dr. Esselstyn used outdated technology. One can habe extremely diseased arteries, yet pass a coronary angiography and show no narrowing. Patients havebeen sen4 home with a false sense of securityzdangerous situations.
I highly recommend Dr. Steven Nissen’s vkdeo about IVUS featured on YouTube. He will walk you through, step by step, how a normal appearing, no stenosis(narrowing) artery was FULL of plaque-loaded everywhere. He used IVUS and went slice by slice. All cardiologists shoukd be advised about what Dr. Nissen warns about : just gecause no narrowing is found does not at all mean that one does not have arteries very, very full of plaque. Coronary angiograms are waaaaaaaaaay outdated. Back then ,(1986 ish) we did not realize that coronary artery disease is a disease of the arterial wall, NOT the lumen.
Dr. Esselstyn never could tell IF he TRULY reversed this disease as his technology is notorious for missing tons of plaque. Despite all of this, modern medici e still uses pre 1986 technology. It is a damn shame. IVUS is expensive, risky and takes a skilled technician to do. However, it is very accurate.
Dr. Esselstyn also used low dose statins in his study-it was not purely diet. Even if he usedan IVUS, the statin use throws a huge monkey wrench in it. Was it diet? Was it statins? Was it both?
But none of that even matters because Dr. Esselstyn (understandabky) used coronary angiograohy and this misses a ton of plaque. If he could demonstrate actual reversal using IVUS I woukd stand uo and take note. I do commend him for his passion and sincerity.
I eat lowER carb, but still eat starches early in the day for workouts-sprints. These xuktures have balanced diets-Okinawans are an example-very balanced-meat, veggies, tropical fruits, seaweeds, greens, beans etc. For all we know , tropical level sunlight (more than diet) may be a major determini g factor in their health, as well as Costa Ricans, Hunzas, and high altitude Sardinian mountain people.I know some diseased elderly people in Miami who get the sun often and are doing fairly well-they even told me if they stayed in New York and Boston they may not be alive. The hot climate , as well as strong UV seems to help these eldery sick people.
It is also possible these above mentioned well known healthy cultures’ success is due to (or is contributed by) their low-modern technology lifestyle-lower stress, very little to no computers etc. They kind of live out in the wild. The Kitivans and Pukapukas are examples , too.
Latitudes with tropical level sunlight intensity seems to be pretty healthful. We are tropical beings pretty much.
Best wishes,
Razwell
Dear Razwell,
I very much appreciate your considerable insights! Thank you for taking the time to reply!
Like you, I really respect the sincerity and dedication of Dr. Esselstyn. He seems like a truly kind and generous man. As you noted, his corresponding with regular folks like you and me says a lot about his character.
Until you mentioned them, I had neither heard of Dr. Steven Nissen nor IVUS. I thank you for enlightening me. Tomorrow, when my brain is less mushy, I’ll find that video on YouTube. That’s incredibly intriguing!
Also news to me:
1) Just because no narrowing is found does not mean that one does not have arteries full of plaque.
2) Coronary angiograms are outdated.
Just when I think I’m starting to understand things, I get a helping hand from someone more knowledgeable! Thank you!
Your comments on tropical level sunlight are also noteworthy. Earlier in the comments, I was reading you exchange with Matt about heat, humidity, and tropical level UV radiation. Until then, I’d never given this any thought.
Finally, I agree with your observations about how other factors — such as low technology, low stress, social connections, etc. — could be (are likely) contributing to the success of long-lived, healthy cultures.
Again, my sincere thanks for all the helpful and thought-provoking information! I look forward to learning more about the items you shared.
Respectfully,
Buck
You’re very welcome, Buck. I am glad my links can help Matt, his readers – and you and Carl.
I hope IVUS will eventually be used in regular everyday cardiology medicine, but it is too expensive, carries risk and takes special training and skill that the average cardiologist does not have. It’s a shame some patients undergoing coronary angiography are sometimes sent home with “healthy arteries” when they may be full of plaque. Back in the day (1986 timeframe) back when they believed CAD was a disease of the lumen, this coronary angiogram was considered the gold standard. With new knowledge, this procedure is very insufficient. It captures narrowing but misses a ton of potential plaque. More patients should tell this to their doctors and spread Dr. Nissen’s info about IVUS.
I hope you have a nice day, Buck.
Best respectful wishes,
Razz
Hi Razwell,
Gee-whiz. The IVUS videos by Dr. Nissen really adds a major (and, profound) wrinkle to what I *thought* I somewhat understood. Details are critical! Now, I see Dr. Esselstyn’s work in a different light.
That makes me simultaneously glad AND frustrated! Because, now I wonder: Who can I trust for reliable information?
Over the last seven years or so, like many people who find their way to this Blog, I’ve listened to thousands of podcasts, read hundreds of blogs, watched hundreds of lectures and other information on YouTube, listened to many audio books, and bought many print books. I’ve also paid to consult with Functional Medicine Doctors, Integrative Doctors, Chiropractors, Naturopaths, and others. I’ve had a variety of “alternative” treatments (e.g. acupuncture, reiki, etc.) that seemed legit and others I was sure were nonsense.
Now, after all those years and all that money, I feel like I’m no closer to finding the “correct” answers about diet and health. It’s maddening.
I think the constant research, conflicting information, the resulting stress, and the ensuing fear of making the “wrong” choices are probably at least as damaging (if not more so) than eating a “bad” food. I find myself constantly going back-and-forth between different dietary philosophies.
When I was 25-30 pounds heavier, I slept better, was warmer (even during winter), and seemed to have better digestion. But, then again, that’s completely anecdotal. I was also about 15 years younger and there are certainly many variables I’m not considering.
I think this is why many people give-up on “diets” and just go back to eating whatever they want.
Nevertheless, I’m grateful for you having shared the information about Dr. Steven Nissen and IVUS! Their importance cannot be overstated!
Wishing you much health and happiness!
Kind regards,
Buck
I’d like to know what you need to do to lose weight when you are female, middle aged and have small children and very poor finances, so low stress is not an option. I’m always having to think to plan the running of the household (hubby, 3 kids, an in-law in the granny flat, 2 adult stepkids not living with us but with their own problems), appointments for a 2yo with gross motor delays, sometimes doing stressful paid work for extra dosh, time poor, difficulty recovering from 6 years of sleep deprivation, poor social life, dissatisfaction with cluttered house but no time for non-essentials, the list could go on. I have just started hot yoga for energy and to improve mobility after having 3 kids in 4 years. I’m still waiting for the energy to kick in. I don’t deprive myself of food and never have, so no psych issues to deal with but I mostly eat clean due to multiple food intolerances in the family (low gluten, dairy, salicylates). I was 60kg (Australian) up until first kid at 40yo, now 77kg (lose 1kg with gastro last week), so usually 78kg with 18kg to lose. I DO NOT wish to “become comfortable” with my extra fat as I don’t believe that is my regular set point and hate how I look (psych issues?), plus I still have my favourite lower sized clothes and you just can’t buy those sort these days in any size. Can I do a (even more) real food diet with more veggies and moderate exercise just to VERY CAREFULLY get back my old set point? Any resources? Eating more doesn’t work for me when I have high stress constantly.
I have a lot of the same stresses in my life as you have just described. I am 39 and was also extremely fatigued, burnt out, and had no idea how to cope with the stress other than laying down a lot and crying. This is what has helped me: 1)I had a blood test and found out my ferritin levels were very low. I am now taking supplemental iron. 2)I have to prioritize sleep any way I can. 3)I found the book Full Catastrophe Living by Jon Kabat-Zinn to be very helpful. 4) I eat sweets throughout the day and it really seems to make me happier and more energetic.(thanks Matt)
I think any kind of diet while you are stressed will only add to your stress load and make things worse. I think the extra weight I have right now is because of the stress. I got to a point where all I wanted was for my boys to have a happy and energetic mother and for my husband to have a wife he could actually talk to with out getting his head chewed off. I felt horrible about the way I was living my life and treating my family. I could barely look at myself in the mirror sometimes. The things I mentioned above have helped me cope with stress (especially #3 and 4). I hope you find something that works for you.
Thanks Different Rachael. My kids sleep through now so I am trying to simplify and cut down my workload so I can prioritise sleep. I’ve read Ari Whitten on energy and cut down coffees to 1 or 2 a week. I will look out for the book you mention but I don’t actually like sweets (lollies in Australia). I buy Aldi’s organic dark choc with sea salt and have 2 bits whenever I crave sugar and snack on naturally seasoned potato chips when I crave salt. So I’m maintaining my 78kg despite eating to fullness and snacking lots. I have a naturally tense outlook so trying to work on that. If I can get myself less stressed and overworked I might get into the zone but I’m still flirting with the idea of doing HCG as a friend lost 9kg in one round and after a break she is starting another round. It seems to be short and sweet and involves the hormones whicb help new mums lose weight effortlessly. Hormones could mess up my mental health though so I’m still only thinking about it. Getting decluttered slowly, shaving my schedule and getting more sleep are my current priorities. I don’t like sugary drinks so wondering if I should have a tsp honey and salty snack whenever I drink water? That’s a question for Matt. One advantage of eating plenty is that my whole family have been sick for weeks and I didn’t get it. I usually don’t if I get enough sleep and eat heaps. Hubby and my mum keep trying to diet. I’ve talked till blue in the face but they don’t listen, probably because I am still overweight! I’d love the unicorn to work for me so it could work for me too.
I meant I want it to work for me so they will listen to me and try it and have it work for them too.
If you really have no desire for sweet foods, I wouldn’t try to force them down.
Hey Rachael,
I don’t personally believe there is any way for you to lose weight in that context without slowing down your metabolism and/or causing weight regain. I think any attempts you make are likely to backfire. Not trying to be negative, but don’t go looking for someone who is selling a happily ever after. There isn’t one.
What do you think of the homeopathic hormone drops in HCG Protocol, which supposedly mimic new mums who drop weight effortlessly? A metabolic biohack here? I have friends who’ve done HCG and kept weight off just eating real food. I would try getting my stress levels down and sleep up first, if I tried it though. Hormones could mess up my mental health too. I got that sorted before I had kids so don’t want to go down that rabbit hole again.
I don’t know. Every health practitioner that I’ve talked to that used to do HCG for their patients and no longer does it now says everyone always gains the weight back eventually, and that HCG is a complete scam. Also, women don’t produce HCG postpartum I don’t think. It’s usually out of the system completely in 6 weeks.
I read Eat 4 Heat a couple of months ago and have been able to increase my body temperature a bit already. However, the rate at which I am fattening up is alarming and I am wondering where to go with this now? I do feel somewhat better, the dizziness is pretty well gone, though I am still having trouble sleeping through the night and do not a lot of energy. Pretty sure I have experienced the Metabolic Zone after the birth of each of my kids (22 yrs ago and 14 yrs ago) and was able to stay within a pretty comfortable 10-15 pound range of my ideal weight for years. Within the last 6 years or so I have steadily increased weight and decreased energy, and decreased all the other good stuff. Before I read Eat 4 Heat I had lost approx 8 lbs. However It was a very restricted diet and I felt like hell and was barely eating anything.
That rate should slow and you should feel better and better the longer you stay at it, until you complete the process. If you’re not feeling better, seeing a rise in body temperature and feelings of warmth, and not seeing slowed weight gain, something’s off and you should probably quit.
http://journals.ke-i.org/index.php/mra/article/download/908/626
Here we review the literature reporting weight loss and weight regain of individuals who were initially within a healthy weight range, such as the long-term Minnesota starvation experiment, in addition to research on chronically undernourished individuals, such as patients with anorexia nervosa, before and after recovery. Quantification of basal metabolism before and after prolonged CR revealed that body composition is the most critical factor in determining absolute RMR in neutral energy balance. Changes in energy balance induce a rapid yet reversible increase or decrease in RMR. Previous reports may have come to erroneous conclusions in favor of the metabolic damage hypothesis because they did not examine the full recovery period in the Minnesota experiment or neglected the influence of energy balance on RMR. Our findings indicate that the theory of permanent, diet-induced metabolic slowing in non-obese individuals is not supported by the current literature.
Metabolic damage doesn’t exist. (!)
Yeah, the calorie-ists love that.
Most never complete refeeding, so they stay in a reduced metabolic state. No one ever really quits dieting, as almost everyone is trying to eat as little as possible and exercise as much as possible almost all the time. That’s enough in and of itself to suppress metabolism.
While just about everyone can restore a proper metabolic rate, what I’ve found is that many previous rounds of dieting train the body to slow its metabolism down faster and stop weight loss more quickly–as well as regain it faster post-diet.
ABSOLUTELY NO LINK WITH THE ARTICLE – but it’s the last active post here and I’m seeking attention so whatever
———
Dear Matt or anyone who can help
I tried reefeeding from last January after a failed gaps diet which led me into starvation, depression and awful migraines (I was trying to heal something that was close to IBS/Hypothyroidy/gluten intolerance, extreme fatigue and so on).
I first went into it like ?fuck gluten fear blabla?. I ate all I could, ice cream, lots of potatoes blablabla. I went into it with quite a passion, and got also a lot of headaches from doing it. However after a while, I couldn’t eat anymore. I’m still highly sensitive to Gluten, so I removed it, which made me stop crying daily for no reason (felt like looking like a lunatic but imagined it was some sort of healing crisis and would go away?).
Despite that I still couldn’t eat and had symptoms of super high serotonin. Didn’t know at the time and kept pushing the shit down my throat because I was fearing slowing down my metabolism. However just a ball of white rice with prawns, soy sauce, coconut oil and I would literally make me feel like my brain was gonna melt down. It’s socio professionally impossible to feel like that.
So I looked up for Ray peat, because high serotonin despite gentle starch. I think OJ killed me and now my stomach is in HUGER distress (really didn’t need that). So now not only am I not hungry but I also feel like throwing up literally everything that crosses my mouth.
I’m left with a huge struggle to eat, potatoes and rice make me want to vomit, so does everything actually. I’m currently half vomiting the yogurt with apple pur?e that seemed like a good idea earlier. I’m having glasses of water with sugar as an attempt to still have some calories. Coca cola works but buckets of coca cola is a shit diet to my opinion and it’s too liquid and I’m still shivering.
I’m shivering all the time, back into insomnia, feel heavy as fuck and close to ulcer (I can tell because I already had some), which I believe is a side effect from the high serotonin caused by the reefeeding.
So, if I cannot even handle fruits, white rice and white potatoes without my brain being in huge pain, what can I do? I’m alright with adding back chicken broth but I need carbs.
I am a good cook and very careful with my choices: mushroom and cheese omelette with patates saut?es in butter, flourless chocolate cake with fruit pur?e and so on (I’m not stuffing my face in plain carb). I only eat high quality cheese (like comt?, cantal and so on). I trying hard to please my taste buds so I don’t get it really?
(But I have a long story of anorexia, drug abuse, IBS, ulcers, gastritis and so on, so I more or less get it but I don’t know what to do).
Please help me I dont wanna be found dead puking in my yogurt. It would be a miracle if I managed to load up 1400 kcal in a day right now.
cheers
I’d talk to Dr. Garrett Smith. You need someone who will take the time to work very carefully with you.
Hey Matt!
I got into your material in 2013 and loved it, but slowly made my way back to low carb town.
I got reinspired after dissatisfaction with my body comp and crazy cold hands and feet and I’m back to eating for heat and checking my body temp.
Already I feel much better and my body is responding beautifully.
My bf is skepticalish of the eat for heat stuff. He is totally supportive of me doing it and he performs better in his fitness endeavors when he eats more carbs, but his temps are regularly like 94-6. He drinks water and enjoys coffee and he doesn’t think that the low body temp is a problem.
He does the gymnastic bodies program and his physical cultivation is a must for him. I couldn’t imagine him truly doing the rest and refeed.
He is quite lean and extremely fit.
He is super healthy, great skin and hair, great energy levels, never gets sick.
Is it possible for a low body temp to be normal for a person? I don’t want to placebo effect him into feeling like something is wrong with him because his BT is so low, but I am curious if it is possible for everything to be functioning properly with a low temp.
His fitness endeavors and leanness probably cause his body temp and resting pulse to adaptively drop. It would be great for him to at least keep his carbs and calories higher, and try to get extra sleep. A full rest and re-feed thing is more for people who are screwed up. Not for healthy people that have a lower than normal body temperature.
I’m a long term restrctive eater, but finally bit the bullet and drastically increased my intake about 15 months ago. 2 months ago, my temps were always above 98, usually 98.5-99, sleeping better, peeing less, etc. Good signs! But in the last 6 weeks I have been usually stressed and busy, which has taken a big toll on my eating. My intake is probably half of what it was. I just have no appetite. And, no surprise, my temps are dropping. Usually in the high 97s, and up to 98.3 after eating :(. I’m so frustrated with myself!
How fast can I turn this around? Do I need to overfeed again? Or will just eating more or more frequently bring my metabolism back up? Any guesses how long it might take to recover from this blip?
You should be able to get your temps back up just from less stress and more sleep. I find those work just as well as food, and in fact, one of the reasons calorie spikes seem to help me so much is because it lowers my stress and makes me sleep better!
More nonsense from CarbSane. Neithsr Hall, CarbSane nor Stephan Guyenet (disappointing as he was a decent dude) can grasp that matter and energy are NOT related-that energy is an abstract purely mathematical property OF actual objects like atoms. CarbSane laughably treats a unit of energy as STUFF. She is illiterate of basic physics. Atoms are stuff. They comprise the universe. Energy is not at all stuff-just a very useful number.
In Special Relativity, there is NO “transformation of matter into energy” (utter nonsense) in nuclear reactions (nor chemical reactions)
despite the misinformations and nonsense you have heard from science sensationalizers, such as Neil Tyson, Brian Cox, Sagan etc.
True , top, elite professional particke physicists realize this. If Guyenet believes that “calories” a UNIT, one of many units for energy( joules, BTU-all the same) -something itself totally abstract , can magucally transform from a property into HUMAN TISSUE, MATTER, OBJECTS, he is very uninformed about physics. It is tragic Stephan has regressed so badly simply to do the opposite of Taubes-like Carbsane does…
. Energy is not converted into ANYTHING….. that is not energy…..
No such “matter to energy transformation” is EVER occurring, DESPITE the widespread errors on the Internet.. Einstein NEVER SAID matter and energy are the same-EVER in any of his personal book.
Matter to energy transformation (and vuce versa)is a widespread science myth and the false proposition CONTRADICTS conservation of energy. I encourage all readers to challenge Stephan, Kevin Hall, Colpo, Carbsane, Lyle and others who promote that. CarbSane MYST be stopped and tamed. She is a loose cannon, a total crank. A science abuser.
Carbon atoms kREAL STUFF-OBJECTS-MATTER and biochemistry lay down human fat tissue, NOT, NOT, NOT calories. CALORIES ARE A FICTION.Energy is a very useful purely mathematical and COMPETELY
A B S T R A C T mathematical quantity-NOT stuff.One of Hawking’s colleagues first informed me about this back in 2014.
Energy to matter conversion WOULD VIOLATE conservation of energy. How ironic. What Lyke McDonald et al propose that calories can transform into tissue VERY MYCH VIOKATES conservation of energy principle.
Now, mass is something very different from matter. Eibstein equation deals with mass, energy , momentum relation. The m stands for mass.
Eo=mc2 means that the rest-energy is related to the mass. The ONLY energy rekated to mass is the REST – energy. That is super impirtant.It applies to objects sitting still. Mass and energy are NOT the same. Mass is a Poincare scalar. Energy is the forth component of a Lorentz 4 vector.
.
Mass to energy conversion is also wrong. Nuclear reactions involve changes in binding energies.
The fitness industry/ field is full of bullsh#t papers. The next time you hear the buzz word “energy” or claiming to be made of energy, be wary! They ARE NOT talking about scientific topics. Physicists warn of this. Google: “Made Of Energy Or Made Of Nonsense” by 4 gravitons blog.
There is widespread error in sports medicine journals, obesity journals regarding “energy”, “laws” “mass” and “matter” -t
The scientific literatureitself CAN SUFFER. From WIDE SPREAD ERROR as D. Deutsch notes in podcasts- Even in physics,the literature is littered with widespread error regarding E=mc2. Only a small community of elite physicists ACTUALLY UNDERSTAND relativity theory. Okun was one of them!
All these non-explanatory obesity /bodybuilding studies are utter junk and garbage, employing intellectual pretense (Hall, Lyle, Colpo, Carbsane do this) , using fancy words to SOUND scienific. Diagrams are thrown in to LOOK authoritative. Most of these studies say and find NOTHING.
As Dr. Krauss has noted, lots and lots and lots of pure junk is published every single day. Simply being published means absolutely nothing, as physicist, L. Krauss , has said during public lectures.
Energy is THE MOST ABUSED term by cranks. Taubes is correct “energy balance” is a buzz word. All the physics illiterate people LOVE to talk of “energy”. Energy is ONLY , as Feynman noted, just some number (only a NUMBER-NOT STUFF) physicists can calculate that remains preserved locally or maintained without change after Nature goes through its manifold changes.
Obesity is poorly understood. Even Dr. Friedman admits in lectures gastric bypass surgery does not work anywhere near as well as falsely advertised. We have a LONG way to go. QED , in physics, is much, much, much, much, much better quality science than anything Kevin Hall writes about.
Stephan is a real shame. The dude has potential if he would abandon his anti-Taubes stance. He should JOIN Taubes, put minds together. They could jointly compliment each other. Guyenet with brain circuitry, Taubes with adipocyte dysregulation and hormones. Guyenet had the right attitude in 2010-on a creative path-made good podcasts regarding the involuntary defense system that Dr. Friedman studies. Friedman has my total respect with his gene mutation work. It provides EXPLANATION for obesity.
Hi Matt,
I’m a newborn to your work (just discovered you yesterday) so please bear with me :) I read your Diet Recovery book (yes, in a day) and 1. I LOVE your sense of humor and lightheartedness, and I oscillated between bouts of hysterical laughter (Mercola’s short shorts haha!!!) and then fought back some tears at times when you seemed to speak directly to me (as a chronic dieter/anorexic/neurotic health researcher who desperately needs to let the fuck go). So much of what you said really hit home and you had me convinced even before I got to the final “eat the food” line.
Fast forward to this afternoon, when i visited my local farm to pick up some
raw milk (something I had been avoiding in my latest low-fat stint of insanity). As I was gulping down a nice, cold, creamy glass of raw milk yumminess I just so happened to be reading this post of yours and just about spit the milk all over my phone as I read all about your Nicaraguan friends calling you fat in between your late-night cookie escapades. And now I’m like uhhhh….
I SO want to let go and just eat the food because I’m SO tired of fighting the good kweight-loss fight, but admittedly its a little difficult for me to maintain the same level of enthusiasm for your approach when you yourself admit to being defeated.
I loved reading your book and I really, really, really want to believe in it, but I first have to ask you a few questions in light of your recent confessions regarding not achieving metabolic bliss (which by the way takes a tremendous amount of courage and character to admit to the world, kudos to your honesty and lack of bullshit)
Okay, the questions:
Have any of your positions changed since you wrote the Diet Recovery book?
You mentioned throughout the book that the goal of resting and refeeding is to regain health rather than lose weight or look like the mainstream expects you to look. But binging on PUFAs and processed foods seems like not the way to attain that goal. Admittedly. (no snarkiness intended), Its a little difficult to take your advice seriously when you seem to not be following it. My intention is not to try to shame you or call you out, I’m just looking for an honest, intelligent answer and I’m hoping you can restore that spark of hope that ignited in me after reading your book, which is quickly fading after reading about your recent poor nutritional choices and inconsistent results.
I NEED to be liberated from the insanity that is my dieting prison. I’m developing an autoimmune disease and I think dieting is at least partially to blame. But I’m tired of being a guinea pig, and yours seems like another dicey experiment. Give me a couple of your most convincing sentences to do this thing :)
Thanks for your time.
I don’t think PUFA’s or a ton of processed foods is the best way to go for many. If you can get the results without them, and that’s sustainable way to eat for you, great. But some really do benefit by just letting go completely.
I really wish I could get into the metabolic zone. I am 22, about 155lbs,and I never seem to gain weight. But losing weight from eating loads? Unheard of for me. I eat a lot. People comment on how much I eat.I am weight stable, but I had been a *relatively* low carb advocate. Like 35-40 a day. I did so because very low carb made me binge. But even with the 40g a day, it’s hard to have a social life, and so have upped it a lot recently. My weight is still stable. I sleep like I’m dead, but I pee a lot, and rarely pee yellow. Always want to drink and pee. If I have 1.5 litres of water in the morning (generally what I need) I will pee 2/3 times an hour for hours.Fingertips are always cold,winter is an absolute nightmare, I abuse coffee and tea to try and stay warm. So while my weight is stable, my temperature and my frequent need to pee and drink are problematic.I experience IBS and reflux at times, although not all the time. Should I eat highly palatable foods more often? Up my carbs? I’m not overly stressed, and I sleep well.I mainly want to improve these issues, and if weight loss happens, even better!
Matt, Can you tell me where intuiting eating comes into play here? I saw some of your commenters recommended the book and I am currently reading it. How does one eat 3-4 thousand calories as day, yet only eat when they feel hungry and still get those calories in? Am I missing something here?
I read your books 2 years ago and started refeeding in June 2015 right as you disappeared. I love your blog and am also glad to see that you are back. I screwed myself up by going Atkins for a year at age 30, then over the next 5 years I followed the Weston Price Foundations, then Mark Sissons Paleo stuff, and as you can guess ended the last 2 years as low-carb paleo. I started refeeding at age 35 and and 150 lbs. I gained 30lbs. Female, 5’7 with 2 kids. After a 1 1/2 yrs 10 pounds came off, so I am currently hovering right under 170. The weight lost stopped right as I went back to school for a short course and my stress level skyroketed. I just finished the course last week and I can teel I need to sleep and eat more. I hit burnout a lot in that 7 months and feel wiiped out now the stress has listed. If all that stress hadn’t happened I wonder if more weight was abount to come off. Before having kids and then having that 5 year dieting episode (hating myself for it) I was always lean, athletic and could shovel food easily without gaining an ounce. Can I get any of that back at 37?
Matt, so you basically eat 3 meals and snacks?
I wonder what about people who want to gain weight? They should eat less calories?
What cookies at night you eat?:))
When I do not eat enough during day I feel hungry at night, don’t know what to grab!
Matt has always been supportive of me.
Here is a first to Matt’s readers. No other website would I do this for: It’s looking more and more likely that the physics that governs biology may be very different from the physics that governs tables and the universe etc. We may need entirely NEW physical principles to explain biological systems and how we operate. We need to treat science DIFFERENTLY in the near future.
The above is from very top ( even mainstream) sources ( videos of them speaking)- superb physicists- one of these greats being Dr. Lawrence Krauss. People such as CarbSane, Anthony Colpo et al cannot compete with this information because men like Krauss are over 10 times smarter than these Internet pea-brains.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j_hex41PGjs
Enjoy.
Best wishes,
Razwell
Here are some questions to ask CarbSane et al and for them to ponder and be challened with coming to grips with this information:
* First Question : How can “calories” cause obesity when they are not at all stuff-there is no stuff or thing or constituent in Nature called calories or joules etc. (Energy and its units are totally abstract, purely mathematical – merely numbers we humans assign to object). In short, energy is not itself ANYTHING-just a totally abstract property or attribute WE HUMANS ASSIGN to actual stuff-things like protons, rocks, photons, electrons etc. as Alan Guth has stressed in several videos.
*Second Question: How can you POSSIBLY do damage to cells with “energy” when it is NOT stuff-at all?
Stephan Guyenet, Dr. Kevin Hall, CarbSane, Anthony Colpo, Richard Nikoley-none of them will be able to answer these questions and if they are smart, they will THINK about this information (known to all particle physicists ) doubt their current positions. The Tuft researchers just continue the charade in the Time magazine article. There is no hope for severely obese people with the current attitude. Thank God for people like Dr. Jeffrey Friedman-individuals like him are obesity sufferer’s last hope.
I almost guarantee none of the aforementioned individuals will make any effort to even ponder this information , let alone give any kind of smidgen of answer. That includes the Tuft’s dieticians. It is a sad state!
Best wishes,
Razwell
Hey there Matt!
Welcome back! And thanks for your refreshing honesty about your own personal struggles. I, too, many times have gotten into a new diet/idea/theory with great enthusiasm only to see it tank, plateau, or worse, and not want to acknowledge that maybe I did it wrong, or that maybe it was a flawed concept in the beginning… admitting that though has always the beginning of the next big step forward in healing for me (… when I eventually get there, that is), so yeah. Amen, brother!
In many ways, however, you are helping me see where my own misguided attempts at health have gone SUPER wrong in the past! And I’m stoked.
I just read your book Diet Recovery 2, and loved it! Lots of stuff that I’ve been needing to hear someone well educated, relatable, and experienced tell me to do haha… eat donuts, sleep, chill out, stop the endless cardio. (I guess I have been told that before by people over the years, but wasn’t able to hear it or didnt respect them enough to take their advice)
I had anorexia when I was 14, and then since then have been trying to be “healthy,” by doing at first doing high intensity, but eventually drifting into some sort of low intensity cardio everyday (b/c did not have the energy for high intensity stuff anymore) and learning everything I could about food and what to eat/what not to eat (obsessive might be a good word to use here haha) …Mainly following “Nourishing Traditions” wisdom, but also did GAPS for over a year – while living a high stress lifestyle, which I’m pretty sure tanked my adrenals among other things (think my thyroid was already pretty hypo at that point). Acupuncture and chinese herbs have helped somewhat, but never seem to make the big changes that would be expected after doing them for 3 years!
Anyways… now I’m 29.. and I’ve been eating pretty much what I feel like for the past year- which has mainly been nourishing traditions-style stuff… organic grass fed whole sprouted grains, eggs, butter, meat, roasted veggies…etc., BUT until reading your book I was still not really eating french toast, pancakes, donuts, cake (except very rarely), jelly, sugar-stuff in general, AND I was starting every day doing something that I’m pretty sure has been self sabotaging me since I was 14.. and that is doing a long session of low intensity cardio (that, as you put so well in the book – basically ends up consuming more and more of your day while putting you into starvation mode. UGH! It’s absolutely true from my experience and SO FUNNY that I didn’t see that sooner myself. I can be so blind sometimes…. but anyway, THANK YOU!)
I’ve stopped that, and am now starting my day with a little yoga or stretching if I feel like it, and then eating a BIG carb-heavy breakfast of whatever I most crave (and have on hand… not getting to crazy here :)
Also doing my best to limit fluids (especially water and herbal teas) and fluid-heavy foods (veggies cooked in water, soups, etc.) is helping a lot.
I have had cold hands, feet, and stomach for YEARS and YEARS!!! (since 14) And low blood pressure, low heartrate (almost at risk for stroke I’ve been told.. around 40-50 bpm at its lowest… but a weak not strong pulse), clear pee (especially in the winter!), and lots of fatigue, making it hard to hold a job, etc. … and I’m very hopeful of what RRARF will be able to do for me. My morning temp has about 97.4 in my follicular (pre-ovulation phase) for a while, but I did just notice that after eating the big breakfast this morning (my 3rd day of following your protocol), my heartrate went up to 90 bpm, and I’m feeling really warm!! (checked my temp and it was 98.8.. not first thing in the morning, but exciting to even see this immediate effect).
A few questions for you when you have a chance:
1) In the book you mention that women will have slightly lower numbers for pre-ovulation than what you recommend… What would you recommend aiming for with those numbers? (oral thermometer) Would you still aim for these numbers to be over 98? Over 98.6? And then post ovulation to be more in the 99 degree territory?
2) Do you know anything about what a cold abdomen means? Mine often gets really cold when I exercise or if I try to do active things after I eat… or sometimes for no reason that I know…and my digestion slows down to a stop. I’ll often use a heating pad to warm it up, which then stimulates my digestion, etc… but I’m wondering if this is more counter productive self sabotage that makes my body rely on the external heat rather than producing it itself.. or whether you think that’s fine to do until my metabolism really kicks into gear after a few weeks/months on RRARF…
3) Have you looked into any benefits of incorporating yoga, meditation, or other meditative practices into your RRARF? Or does that suggestion make you angry? Haha I just think a bit of that – added in a casual if I feel like it kind of way – helps me get into relaxed anabolic mode.
All for now. Thanks again so much! I’m going to read all your other books now.
~Colleen
Hey Colleen,
Enjoy those pancakes! And whatever else you are in the mood for.
1. Low 98’s with temps to 99+
2. Let’s see how that changes as you recover and not pay much attention to it now
3. I have nothing against meditation or yoga. During recovery, anything that de-stresses you is beneficial. But it’s more about avoiding stresses than intentionally making a big deal about “doing” something to de-stress. It’s more in the non-doing! :)
Colleen-
I’m one of Matt’s older groupies- 65!! (LOL). I have dieted chronically my entire life – starting at the age and weight I wish I was right now….(I’m working diligently on accepting both conditions with grace). Thankfully I heard Matt speak at the Paleo summit about 5 years ago, and found out how I had been lied to my entire life by the diet industry and diet “gurus” because nothing ever worked except to increase my weight each time I dieted. Yes, I dieted myself fat and stuck.
I am a stress relief counselor- and can tell you- and I’m certain that Matt will agree, that we have to learn to dial down our perception of what we ALLOW to be stressful to us. Avoid getting stressed and angry at “the small stuff” – and it’s mostly the small stuff. Our psychological reaction to stress is often more damaging that the stressor itself!
Meditation, gentle yoga, HeartMath (focusing on appreciation and happy past events) will help you achieve that state of mind- and body. You can even use mindful eating as a stress relieving activity when you turn off the TV, phone, stop talking, and just focus on those delicious pancakes! It really works…. and makes everything taste even better and life a lot more pleasant.
(oh, and BTW, I read studies that show that more intelligent people have a higher beat per minute rate than slower….but of course, up to a point).
Talking about meditation. I’ve been very diligent with temp takes, and I found that in my experience, meditation rises my temp 0,7?C in a couple of minutes. I can eat a bunch of calories of palatable things, then I lie with my computer and maste my time in FB and YB and I get stuck in 36,4?C. Then Unplug, stare at one point and relax. Let my mind fly. Stop fighting with reality. 2 minutes after, 37,1?C.
I know some papers who talk about meditation and the production of thyroid hormones. The point is: I don’t recomend to starve yourself and meditate in a cave, but I don’t thing that the only stress relieve source should be food.
Definitely not, and over the years I’ve continued to bring greater attention to relaxation and sleep with a huge de-emphasis on food. In fact, I went so far as to recommend people start with relaxation and sleep and only use a surplus of food if that was insufficient at raising temps.
Thank you Lianda and Mikel! Great suggestions. I have been incorporating mindfulness and meditation into my life for the past few years, and they have both helped me IMMENSELY for sure – though I think Matt is helping me realize that while certainly beneficial in general, I also need to not let those practices become one more daily to-do or stressor either.
Or maybe I’m doing it wrong… :)
Awesome. Thanks so much for your responses, Matt!
My current plan is to basically eat a huge breakfast, not run/jog/walk – tho maybe sprints occasionally if I feel like it.. but definitely not first thing in the morning!, eat whenever I’m even a little hungry, eat until certainly full or a little over, and I’m also challenging myself to try all of the “forbidden foods” that I’d accumulated over the years and had been avoiding without even thinking about it for the past few years… as long as I can do so in total enjoyment/no guilt allowed. And so far, its been awesome!
Chocolate ice cream, chocolate milk, pancakes w/ lotsa syrup, granola, cereal, cheese, pizza, burger buns, jelly/jam, rice krispies treats, banana bread, even a McDonald’s sausage, egg, & cheese biscuit (hadnt had Mickey Ds in like 15 years! That was probably the most challenging b/c I still don’t really want to support their company haha). I’m finding that eating this stuff actually feels pretty fine on my body and tends to actually energize me and feel good (though concentrated sugary stuff still gives me headaches), but that I don’t tend to crave it much after I’ve eaten it a couple times.. I honestly get a little sick of it, and its kinda like no big deal. I’m sure I won’t be avoiding it any more and will eat these foods when I feel like it, but I generally like a more wholesome though nutrient/calorie dense diet better (lotsa butter, toast, eggs, meat, rice, roasted veggies) except with the addition of more CHEESE, peanut butter (and jelly!), pizza, and granola :)
I’m still in the 97s follicular phase, and low 98s post ovulation (perhaps because I’ve been traveling, partying, and not sleeping much for the past few weeks…oops), so definitely have some work (eating whatever I want whenever I want, and sleeping :) ) to do! But after a couple weeks of this, I do notice my heart rate consistently up (resting at 60-90 rather than in the 50s), my digestion and energy are wayyyy better, and my blood pressure may be rising as well, which is really good for someone who’s been dizzy on standing most of her life with usually 90s/60s mm Hg.
And I definitely hear you about the emphasis on not-doing and totally appreciate that! Sometimes (ie. when I’m in the mood…) I do find yoga and meditation to be helpful for me with not-doing and coming back to my body, HOWEVER if I force myself to do them when I’m not in the mood… that just kinda reinforces the whole mind-over-body problem, and I’m doing my best to cut that shiz out! Haha. So thanks for that.
Here’s another question for you – do you have any response to the recent AHA study on sat vs. unsat fat, coconut oil? http://ajcn.nutrition.org/content/92/2/458.full.pdf
And thank you again for sharing all this that you have learned and continue to learn! I have a feeling this is starting to change my life pretty significantly.
Hey there Matt,
Me again!
Soooo I’ve been doing RRARF (eating lots whenever I’m hungry or cold, emphasizing the 4 S’s, minimizing liquids (no water unless really crave it… otherwise, only salted juices or kombucha – and only after I eat/get warm), no low intensity cardio except for gardening/mowing the lawn) for about a month now, and while my hands and feet seem to generally be warmer, and my heart rate is up into the normal range (60-90, not 50 and below), my BBTs have not gone up… and on average, they are actually worse, and more variable! (Before RRARF, follicular phase bbt was consistently 97.4 every day, but now it is bouncing between 96.9, 97.2, and 97.9 on days when I wake up to eat in the middle of the night).
I have also been noticing some other troubling symptoms:
1) Waking up around 5-6 am every morning (After going to sleep at midnight), and sometimes even earlier (2am), and needing a snack to fall back asleep.
2) Then feeling tired/groggy/weak throughout the day, with pale/puffy eyes and face.
3) Getting bloated (seems to happen more since I’m eating more).
4) Feeling nauseous/low appetite on waking and at dinner (this was helped when I modified RRARF to allow more liquids and fruits/veggies into my diet).
Caveat: I’ve experienced all of these symptoms at other times in my life and in the past month while doing RRARF, I was basically travelling nonstop (which was certainly a stress on my system).
However – I was expecting the RRARF to help them (especially the bbt!), and instead, they have actually gotten a little worse. Could that be the added stress of all of the travelling? Or am I doing something wrong w/ RRARF? Or is the lowered bbts some sort of overcompensation by my system?
To address some of these symptoms (namely, nausea, low appetite, headaches), I modified my gung-ho version of RRARF to include significantly more fruits, veggies, things deemed ?cold? by you in Eat for Heat, and liquids, and to not stuff myself so much, and that has helped. (I probably took it too extreme at first?).
I also saw somewhere that you encouraged people to have 12 hr/day that we’re basically fasting (which would help with the appetite), and while I’ve done that before in my life, I find imposing that rule to feel ?restrictive? (especially since I sometimes wake up in the middle of the night, and food is the only thing that helps me fall back asleep), but what I am trying to do is get more food earlier in the day to maybe help with that.
My questions are: Do you know others who have experienced this stubbornness w/ raising the bbts? Do you think I should continue the RRARF for another month (to see if living in one place will allow some of these symptoms to go away, and my body temps to come up)? Should I modify RRARF in some other way? OR: Is RRARF maybe not for me?
Thank you again for everything!
OK an update on me:
After the first month of full-on RRARF, I realized that like other diets (I know this isn’t a diet, its diet recovery… but I kinda turned it into one… oops!) – when I stop listening to my body is when I get in trouble… and so a lot of my questions from above could probably have been answered by me…
Here is what I’ve learned:
1) After a month of RRARF, my arteries felt like they were full of butter (I would dream about this), I felt kinda of nauseated at the idea of eating any more heavy meals (especially on waking up)… and my body actually CRAVED carrots, carrot juice, broccoli, cauliflower, and liquids. So, I listened to those cravings… and while I still ate 3+ full meals per day, I stopped the overfeeding, and ate to appetite. I also added in more vegetables, watery things, and liquids – but tried to keep the liquids to 30 min or more before or after meals (though don’t do that perfectly at all), and when drinking carrot juice, I always add a little sea salt to warm it up a bit. Headaches have gone away.
2) My sleep has gotten WAYYYY better (now sleeping through the night)… I think this is partially because I’m not traveling so much, partially because I’m taking some chinese herbs to help with this (tian wang bu xin tang), and partially because I’ve been drinking the most amazing whole chocolate milk (from jersey cows, no less!) before I go to bed when I feel a little bit hungry, and that totally does the trick (along with some apples or bananas and pb if need be).
3) Exercise – I also started craving this… so I started adding some in.. not the slow, long walk/jogs that I’d been doing before – but a shorter, faster MAXercise version of sprints and walking for about 8-10 repeats at close to maximum effort, at your suggestion, Matt. First I did this once a week, and then two. When I added in a session of rock climbing as well, my body got overtired, and my temps went down, so I knew that was too much, but after giving my body some recovery, I’m sure it’ll crave some more exercise, and I’ll be more than willing to oblige :) It feels pretty good to move.
4) Yoga/Meditation/Qi Gong/Tai Chi – As Lianda suggested, these are HUGE for me… and I have added them back into my life as I think she and Matt and others have stated elsewhere, that the reduction of stress/cortisol release may be the biggest in terms of restoring metabolic function and health, in general. In Chinese medicine, stress causes Liver Qi Stagnation, which for me, often results in bloating/abdominal distention, which can then cause a build up of food (and eventually fat) in the same locations that the stagnation happens (abdominal for me), so its a very similar thing to the idea of stress/cortisol/abdominal weight gain, etc.. Yoga, qi gong, meditation, tai chi, etc. all help me activate my relaxation response, connect my breathe with my body, turn my mind/thoughts down, and also move around my qi to release stagnation – this helps my sleep, hunger, eating, bloating, mood, etc. immensely.
5) Mindful eating – Lianda also recommended this earlier- but I think a little before I was really ready to hear it (no fault of hers! just where I was at), but deep breathing before, during, and after meals, and enjoying every flavorful bite is really helpful to me at this point (though the idea of mindful eating was getting too much in the way of JUST EATING before when I needed to do that… so this may not be for everyone right now), but yeah… I love it now, and it definitely helps me to appreciate the food I’m taking in, and to unlock the parts of my stomach that clench up in fear sometimes at the thought of food coming in (remnants of my past eating disorder I think… and a part of that whole liver qi stagnation thing I mentioned before…)
6) Limiting food to 12 hr windows per day – this is a recommendation I have great difficulty with. I think that it probably is healthiest to eat that way, and I definitely feel better/more hungry when I do (and I’ve read that it helps BBTs to rise), BUT if I wake up in the middle of the night hungry, I’ve GOT to eat or else I won’t sleep. Soooooo, yeah. Haha. I think that for me, at least, limiting food to 12 hours a day happens as a result of a healthy lifestyle and diet, and shouldn’t be imposed as a restriction. (This can probably be said for many of the restrictions on eating out there, in fact).
Ok – think that’s about it for now! Moral of the story, is that as Matt suggests, the full-on RRARF is only for a period of time, and that once you’ve gone throug that phase, its important to listen to your body – whatever she tells you… The above is simply me trying to do that. Hope this helps anyone who is going through the RRARF themselves, and experiencing any kinks. My BBTs still haven’t shot up yet, but my hands and feet are feeling consistently warmer, my sleep is better, and I’ll be sure to let you know if and when the BBTs join the party.
Comment
Neither Matt, nor I like Lyle McDonald. He is a very rude guy. He has been a royal a@@ to both of us. I am ready to debunk this guy publicly. His article ( about me) is absolutely laughable. Carbon atoms are only indirectly linked to “calories.” ( Nobel Prize physicists first noted this to me) Physicists HATE the calorie- it is an old, outdated unit to measure a NUMBER we call “energy.” Nobel Prize winner in physics personally told me this, I could name him of you wish. There is NO DIFFERENCE between calories, joules or BTU’s- we have farrrrrr too many units to measure this attribute, this number called energy. Feynman said USE ONE UNIT and be done with it!
Many physicists prefer the doing AWAY with the calorie for good , in favor of the joule.
Neither energy, nor it units- they are NOT intangible or invisible either. They are NUMBERS only. Energy is not itself ANYTHING BUT A NUMBER.
Fields are invisible but actual stuff, invisible and intangible but there….
Energy is NOT anything BUT A NUMBER. ” Totally abstract- “PURELY MATHEMATICAL” int he exact words of Richard Feynman himself.
IGNORE Lyle McDonald , he is a CRANK. Get your physics information from Richard Feynman’s videos. I encourage everybody to challenge that guy. He was deeply offended that I educated him that “laws” , in science, are like nested Russian Dolls, radically different theories getting more and more accurate as they go on- Newton, Einstein and eventually quantum gravity explanation- then progressing from there perhaps infinitely. General Relativity ARISES out of much deeper laws- we KNOW GR is not really true ( as Sean Carroll noted in lectures ) , it just serves its purpose wonderfully under certain circumstances, an approximation.
Best wishes,
Razwell
Hey there,
Slightly unrelated but I just recently read your book Diet Recivery 2, and am now swapping out my morning cardio to instead eat breakfast first thing (after maybe a little yoga/stretching if I feel like it). The past few days I have noticed that my heart rate shoots up after eating this first meal (going from 50-60 to up to 80-95). Is that to be expected? Why does that happening? Is this a good sign or a bad sign?
Also- what bbt numbers would you aim for during follicular vs luteal phases for women?
Thanks again so much for all you are doing in sharing your knowledge and experience!
Colleen
I answered your comment in another spot Colleen. Yes, that’s good for your pulse to come up, especially for someone like you with a history of low pulse and low blood pressure.
Hey Matt, I recently saw a video of a guy who was originally 600lbs loosing 300lbs of his weight. I think he explained that he lost the weight by walking 2 miles a day, reducing his caloric intake drastically (he was eating about 11000cals), and working out regularly. While the general public would agree that the calorie is the big factor, I’m confused since I know some bloggers who lost their fat via huge calorie surplus like Billy Craig and Chiefrok. Do you think his weight gain had to do much more than calories? I don’t think he forced himself to eat the astronomical amount of calories, but his body was wanting them due to other factors. For instance, I know someone who gained a lot of weight after starting to take medication (antidepressant). Her family told me that she couldn’t stop eating for no reason. I understand that obesity is caused by many reasons, but I sometimes still get discouraged by some videos like the one I mentioned.
Body fat regulation happens internally. If someone is fat and eating 11,000 calories a day when eating to appetite and continuing to gain, clearly that system is faulty. It’s rare that this happens. It’s not common like people assume. Not at all. It’s a serious defect, and of course there is a reason for it. But 99.999% of people don’t work like this. They increase food intake and their metabolism increases and appetite falls.
I see. By the way, have you heard about “Fat Men’s Club” that existed in the late 1800’s to early 1900’s in the U.S. Seems like the members were proud of their fatness because it represented their wealth back then. I’ve also heard about an Englishman from the 18th century named Daniel Lambert, who weighed 700 lbs despite being active and didn’t eat unusual amount of food according to himself. Maybe severe obesity is truly a genetic/hereditary disorder after all. I even think that the obesity pandemic might be caused by the increasing population, especially after the fetal mortality rate decreased a lot. What are your thoughts Matt?
I think obesity is primarily hereditary for sure. And that’s the general consensus among obesity researchers.
But it’s getting worse rapidly, and obesity can be predicted pretty well in kids as young as 2 years old. So I think most of evidence points to differences in the intrauterine environment (influenced by the health, nutritional status, and metabolism of the mother), as well as infant feeding.
So, Matt, progress report? Did you stay in the metabolic zone after coming home?? I’m really dying to know. The months of suspense is killing me!!! Would you ever try to model Billy Craig and eat 6,000 calories a day? Has any one tried to do something like that?
No metabolic zone for me at the moment. I went to Colombia and my appetite kind of dropped. I was spending a ton of time speaking to people and working on my Spanish, and the food there is also pretty bland. I didn’t eat much, lost weight, and got colder for sure. When I came back to the U.S. I gained every ounce back plus a few extra pounds in the blink of an eye. Damn U.S., haha.
Hey Matt, long time reader here, you inspired me with your mention of sunbathing and so, did some searching and apparently the chemical processes behind tanning also stimulate the metabolism. So, I took my salt, starch, sugar, and sat-fat loving self down to the tanning salon. Kinda felt like a hero in a half shell…
Haha. Nice.
Hi Matt, I am in recovery for my eating disorder. I have weight restored (plus some) and am trusting that my body will realize it won’t be starved again and my appetite and weight will stabilize. But trusting that process is hard. I still have a lot of progress to make mentally, but my instinct now that I have weight restored is to somehow restrict again to put the breaks on any additional weight gain, even though I know that would hinder my recovery. What are your thoughts on “extreme hunger” and weight restoration in ED recovery? I am very familiar with the Minnesota Starvation experiment so I know that in time people can recover mentally and physically. But I am getting scared at this point because the weight gain gives me a lot of anxiety.
Erin, I was a moderator on the Stress Forum back when Matt had started those- I can tell you that anxiety and fear are stressful and can counter balance the good work you are doing to recover from your ED. It’s important to practice stress relief daily- it’s not hard, it’s actually pleasant…. and it dials down your negative emotions. There are many good methods- but remember, it was probably stress that got you started with gaining weight- so eating is not the issue- it’s the stress. Check out my page for a very effective method to watch yourself improve your ability to lower your stress.
Thank you Lianda! That is really great advice, I think the mental aspect of recovery is the most difficult part. The fact that this is a mental disorder that I will live with for the rest of my life feels intimidating sometimes. But recovery is the only choice.
Glad to help- and let me assure you that this will help you stay the course in your recovery… You can do it!
Are several eggs per day allowed in the metabolic super zone?
Hiya, Matt:
I’m a bit confused. Can you help me?
Wasn’t it a calorie surplus that led some of us to be overweight in the first place? If so, then it seems paradoxical that a calorie surplus could also be the solution.
Obviously, nothing is ever that simple. And, I’m new to your work, so there’s a lot I don’t know.
I’m sure you’re tired of answering the same questions over-and-over, so I’ll be grateful for even the most brief answer -or- if you could guide me to something that you’ve already written that might help me understand.
All the “standard” diet crap clearly doesn’t work, so the fact that you’re going in an opposite direction is awesome.
Thank you, sir.
IBM
“Energy” is the most abused term ever, especially by cranks. “Energy balance” is not ANY kind of explanation or description of ANY kind of mechanism with regard to obesity.
Humans have to REPLENISH carbon stores repeatedly. The mere act of overeating food-0 carbon atoms- has MANY reactions.Many skinny girls can overeat and stay perfectly lean. others gain moderate or very litle. Others turn into classic “let myself go’ types- nothing wrong with them- just got lazy after retirement. Genetics, hormones, medicines, age, gender diseases- all play a role. But TRUE obesity is something else entirely. Yes, if your atypical athlete did nothing but lay on a couch and eat himself to oblivion he may gain significant or at least moderate. Those carbon atoms would overwhelm the excretion ability factor. but who does that? Nor does that cause the true severe obesity we see in these certain people. When the body wants to it CAN do what it wants- if it wants you to be in weight loss phase you will be. I have seen this. UV radiation shrinks and damages fat cells in mice and appear to in humans, too. I have seen it in myself in the tropics. My fat filled pimple like dots ( 7 of them n my face totally shrunk or went away after being in Costa Rica for a week constantly in the sunlight. That need to be PURSUED.
IMPORTANT: Energy is NOT what makes thing go or move, Feynman himself stressed that. Obesity is genetic- “supremely hugely” genetic . There is a lot of obesity on various islands and certain cultures in Central America. Very, very prevalent. One of the keys is knowing and remembering to OBSERVE ( Lyle et al have FAILED to OBSERVE) and WHAT to observe and ignore ( like Feynman noted) . it is obvious severe obesity is a major malfunction, NOT willpower or morality or lack of exercise. These people are drowned in fat in every nook and cranny and have little muscle- walking blobs. I am sympathetic and not trying to insult. Exercise and diet did not cause it NOR will it treat it. it is more than time for medical doctors and various bloggers ( McDonald et al) to ADMIT their gross ignorance and that they have been abject failures to treating obese people. Obesity is extremely poorly understood and not even 1/10th solved- this includes myself- but I am looking for answers. Colpo, Guyenet, Hall and Lyle are looking in the wrong direction totally- so is the endocrine society. Things really went awry with obesity research. This is Gary Taubes greatest contribution =- pointing that out as well as pointing out that fa cells are governed by HORMONES and that energy balance is a total NON -explanation, gobbledygook and a USELESS BUZZ WORD. ATOMS, MATTER, the excretion of CARBON ATOMS are the base level explanation for fat loss. The chemical cascades of the body are super selective and not even remotely like chaotic indiscriminate wild oxidation of fire. .
It should be obvious there is a major mafunction going on. It is very bizarre and a disease.
Remember: Science is not reality- Reality is reality. The dramatic overstating of science is a major problem in the Blogpshpere. Accomplished physicists like Oppenheimer knew how little we know and never overstated things- science has very considerable limits and flaws and there are matters of life it cannot even address. Just because regarding natural physical phenomena , science and its many methodS are our best current way does NOT mean it is sufficient. It needs improvement. We have learned that physical laws are nested and like Russian Dolls – they may go ob forever, each one getting to greater accuracies and radically different from the next from which it arose out of
There is no physicist alive who even remotely knows the ORIGIN of the universe- Weinberg starts his lectures admitting this. Nor the origin of life. Remember that. There is SO MUCH in biology and p[hyscis we do not know. As mentioned, the laws that govern biology may be very different than those that govern the universe as Dr. Krauss pointed out. Even Quantum Field Theory may one day be shown to be in major error, as Dr. Alan Guth points out. Well, what does that tell you about what nutritionists say????? The calorie hypothesis is wrong. Why is Lyle et al SO sure about their energy balance nonsense?
We have so much to learn about the universe- far more we DONL;T know than we know….. Great accomplished scientists are HUMBLE to the maximum. Weinberg himself says OUR MODELS ( our “science” ) likely do not represent ACTUAL reality as it REALLY IS , but are useful in some cases. I can say for sure Lyle McDonald and people like him are frauds. he fails to grasp what Feynman knew- energy is a human construct, a NUMBER. It is NOT, itself, anything with existence on or of its own. I dislike science popularizers such as Sagan and Tyson- they did a great disservice and mislead the public.
I have nothing against Hall or GUyenet personally ( at least not that much- they are fairly decent humans) ) but they honestly are getting NOWHERE with regard to obesity progress or helping these people. That holds true for everyone like them- Colpo,McDonald- all looking in the wrong direction. The medical community has FAILED obese people – time to ADMIT their gross ignorance instead of continually pursue a DEAD HORSE and ask what cheese the Moon is made of.. The Endocrine Society A-D-M-I-T–S right int he article that they do NOT KNOW what CAUSES obesity YET they continually push energy balance nonsense….
Best wishes,
Raz
If Michael Jordan or some athlete or bodybuilder with fabulous GENETICS did their sprints, walking lifting and ate reasonable and balanced they likely would get a nice physique ( assuming no meds, good health and not too old) . But it is their GENETICS that is the main factor. Some obese person could do the very same thing and get little to no result. Jordan could thank his God given genetics for his build not his willpower. Although we have limited ability and his efforts would help, his situation is not even REMOTELY the same as an obese eprson trying to lose fat. This is what Colpo et al failt to grasp. They are natural ectomorphs or mesomorphs selling books to gullible people dissatisfied with their builds. There are GHANAIAN wrestler with he most muscular physiques you ever saw NATURALLY- doing hardly any lifting. I KNOW people like this in real life- my biddy from Virgin Islands is an extremely muscular dude being a beach bum. Huge BICEPS. Conservation of energy has NOTHING to do with this- Lyle uses it to SOUND scientific – cannot make money admitting obesity is supremely GENETIC. Which is what Dr. Jeffery Friedman and numerous others have verified continually. We have to continually RECHECK our views and beliefs – Feynman stressed that , too. There is NO RECHECKING going on with Colpo et al.
Wow, Razwell…my brain nearly EXPLODED!!! :-)
Your comments really put things into some perspective. I already knew I didn’t know much. Now, I realize I don’t really know ANYTHING! Damn!
It makes me wonder if it even matters what we eat? That is, is one source of carbon atoms any better/worse than any other source of carbon atoms?
Talk about those nested Russian dolls. That’s a great analogy.
Best regards,
Carl
Thanks, Carl. I hope you are doing well : )
Foods have other atoms , too- nitrogen atoms etc. Hydrogen too etc. Water H2O is easily excreted by healthy humans, that is partly why it is not the focus. It is carbon that physicists focus on because it is the carbon that is difficult to excrete. 17,000 exhalations for a relatively small amount. The chemical composition of food matters for body composition etc. Protein rich style of eating is helpful with muscle . the thing is, foods high in fat and sugar both are loaded with carbon as opposed to fruits and vegetables, which are mainly water and have micronutrients. I am only talking on a “base level” it is carbon atoms, but nutrients matter too very much : )
My hard work paid off but I was given good genetics. An obese person could work just as hard or at least almost and not get good results. Kind of like if Allen Iverson played basketball alllll day on an island and another person with no talent did the same thing- Iverson would win by a long shot. Arnold’s son has great genetics- U forget his name. But if he put his mind to the weights like his dad did, he would always look better than the guy not blessed with great genetics. That is why I never judge a few of my obese friends because they work hard but just were not in the genetic lottery- I always recognize it is my genes MOSTLY that is responsible for my athletic build. I have very Michael Jordany style legs and high calves and skinny ankles = which has helped me in basketball no doubt. I thank my ectomorph/mesopmoph genetics first and my hard work additionally but a far second,. A true obese person’s results cannot be compared with a guy who never was obese and always athletic. Usain Bolt is always going to be more lean and muscular than the average stiff abnd even more so compared to a severe obesity victim. When Bolt works hard he gets super cut. the same is not true for most people. he is one gifted athlete. Terrel Owens is too. My St. Thomas friend is ripped and he has a beach bum, liofestyle. I cannot believe how he maintains such big biceps. He is likely even more lucky than I was. He hardly works much at all. He is 53 now, too. Holy crap is he strong naturally.
Obesity is SO complex and I am sure “clogging effects” happen with the handling of this carbon matter- food. But, also, SO much more rich biochemistry, genetics and hormonal situations are all going on.
I highly recommend Google search of Feynman and how energy is not what makes things move- rather things that are moving have energy ( this attribute and number) it is in his address to teachers about What Is Science- Feynman discusses how energy is tooooo subtle to even use right in a sentence.
Lyle McDonald ( and his colleagues) are TOTALLY debunked by Riochard P Feynman’s articles on energy, a man who towers above him in intellect/
Enjoy your day, buddy.
Best Wishes,
Razz
Force causes motion. Any decent first year physics student knows this. Do you?
Hiya, Razwell:
That makes so much sense! Thank you! I appreciate your taking so much of your valuable time to help educate laypersons like me.
I’m starting to see the limitations of “science” and “studies.”
From the gospel of Matthew (Stone):
?But it is reality. It is what happened to me. And what happened to me is a lot more meaningful to me personally than what any logic or study may have revealed. It doesn’t take a study to convince me that it hurts to get punched in the face. Likewise, a study that showed me that getting punched in the face doesn’t hurt … wouldn’t mean a damn thing to me.
?Matt Stone, 12 Paleo Myths
I mean, we made-up science, right? So, how sure can we be with something we created?
Anyway, I just wanted to say ‘Thank You’ for your thoughtful responses. I’m still struggling with my health (for several years now) and am sometimes offline for a few days. I hope you’re in good health and good spirits!
Best Regards,
Carl
Hi Everybody,
Do the “laws” of physics even exist? Here is a great video by respected physicist David Gross ( right up there with Dr. Steven Weinberg or very near it):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c1HHFlfVIJs
How or why are these laws wrong you ask? To QUOTE Feynman: “First, the observations are NOT the laws and second the experiments are ALWAYS INACCURATE.”
Colpo and McDonald cannot GRASP this……
David Gross thinks very highly of Gary Taubes’ current health work and his past physics journalism writings. That says A LOT. Gross is a genius. I know this for a FACT. Obviously , this will chap CarbSane, Colpo’s, McDonald’s Guyenet’s and Hall’s collective butts ( although Hall is a decent man, GUyenet kind of is, too- but Hall is much more knowledgeable on the supreme genetic component of obesity- I am pleased to see that much at least….. This TREMENDOUS video answer to a young girl by world class, legendary physicist, Gross, PLUS his support for Taubes’ intellect and work totally debunks CarbSane et al all of whom have been totally abusing the topic of “energy” for years fooling all their gullible public readership.
let us NOT overstate science. Bloggers do that, science popularizers do that . I really DISLIKED Sagan and Tyson. They dramatically overstated science. I treall DO like HUMBLE guys like Gross, Oppenheimer and Feynman- all of whom tried their best NOT to overstate or glorify the fallible HUMAN endeavor we call science- with all its limitations flaws and significant INEFFICIENCIES. We need better ( obviously) and will likely have it in the future.At least methods that are a little improved. : )
We will never get tot he deepest laws or principles and IF we ever did ( and the chance is like .oooooooooooooooooooo1% chance )- we would NOT know it. This is the view of many, many top physicists.
Just as your cat cannot grasp calculus the ultimate principles are likely far beyond us.
Our laws are NOT rules or mandates on Nature!. They are OUR very fallible human observations that went through the sieve a bit0 the trick is to find what laws are wrong eventually. ALL laws and principles are TENTATIVE. Reality is reality. Science is very excellent and deserves respect thus far, but it is NOT reality- REALITY itself is. Science is only OUR fallible models which likely bear little to no resemblance to ACTUAL reality as it REALLY IS. i know many famous physicists who stated as much.
All of our “laws” ( they are only called this term because back in the day it was used and popular-physicists today do not even like the term “law”- as Feynman and Guth noted it did not turn out well for these so-called “laws” Ohm, Newton, etc. etc. ) are only approximations, each one can be radically different from the next- laws are NESTED like Russian Dolls, General Relativity ARISES out of something much, much deeper and more accurate- even radically different. Physicists today KNOW GR is not really the case…. The truth is FAR deeper. it may or maynot end with String Theory- likely not. Kip Throne stated as such in an interview. These nested Russian Dolls get smaller and smaller and this may go on forever. We need nothing but HUMILITY among scientists- remember, NOBODY knows the origin of the universe, as Weinberg stresses.
This probably did not occur to the pea brains of the Blogpsphere, such asd Nikoley, McDonald, CarbSane, but cobnservation of energy ( this NUMBER) is a bit like “Rule # 1 : the landlord is always right and if the landlord is wrong- refer back to rule # 1. A physicist once told me that. it is true. LOL !!!!!! It does not occur to these pea brain book seller salesmen ( Colpo et al) that there is no way to ever disprove the conservation of energy because any apparent violation could always be countered by a slick answer such as ” That is due to a different law of motion than we knew about or maybe the FORMULA for energy is DIFFERENT for this given object etc. etc. Therefore there is no experiment that could really refute it. It is just one of those situations…See?????
Energy is a HUMAN construct, a very useful bookkeeping, a NUMBER nothing more. In GR, conservation of this number gets SQUIRRELLY in principle *because* time translational invariance no longer holds in a curved spacetime. Neils Bohr was ready to give up on conservation of energy at one point in his life and Pauli thought beta decay was a blatant contradiction, The neutrino solved this problem.
Sorry to get off topic, it is just these book saklesmen always invoke physics and I am here to expose their fraud and correct them. Colpo, CarbSane and McDonald shoould have no readership with my information going public.
I put this video out here so the public realzies hwo BADLY they have been HAD by Colpo, McDonald and the “energy ” and physics abusing abusing CARTEL- who do it to sell books and APPEAR authoritative. Lots and lots of syllables and fancy buzz words and “published papers” ( That Krieger gloats about). Energy balance etc. – all buzz words- Taubes IS right about that. lastly “being published” does not mean much of anything as Dr. Krauss has noted ( he said lots and lots of junk is published every single day). What matters is the work that gets taken up and found useful theories like QED….
Get your physics information from David Gross videos and Richard Feynman’s articles , NOT CarbSane and Colpo’s abuse of energy and physics. MOST of the Internet forums are all wrong – YouTube etc. Feynman and Gross have highler quality information. CHALLENGE THEM with MY information, or ignore them and tell them they are total physcis abusers for profit. Thank you!
Take care,
Razwell
But Raz, your god Feynman disagrees with you regarding your stance on energy and matter.
http://www.feynmanlectures.caltech.edu/I_15.html
What do you say Raz?
P.S. I find it amusing that whoever is moderating the comments has not posted any of my comments. If the moderator is away, that’s okay. However, if the moderator is “censoring” my comments, all I can say is 180degrees has sure changed over the years. Passionate dissent and disagreement used to be the hallmark of 180. Is that no longer true? If so, I am disappointed, but also I accept that it is Matt’s site, and he can do what he wants. I will continue to read his posts and the comments regardless.
Hi Matt!
I am a year into RARF now. So, I eat what sounds good and I eat as much as I want. (Not actively refeeding anymore just eating what I would call normal) No exercise. (Only activity is I am a hairstylist so I’m up moving and using my arms a lot.) I have been doing this and have maintained weight for 7 months now.
I am still feeling better and more satiated by keeping with salt sugar starches etc. I drink some water when I’m feeling hot or thirsty but that’s about it. I rest as much as I can around work and I definitely can tell a difference in when I’m well rested and when I’m not.
I know you said that by late summer I could possibly start to see drop in my weight. My morning temps are still between 97 and 98. And very rarely have they been over 98.
My question is should my temps be higher? Is here anything I could do to increase my temps? (After years of restricting its been very freeing to just eat what sounds good and what is convenient so I probably could incorporate better oils etc.) Is it possible to still be on the same track and start to lose if my temps aren’t up to normal?
Thanks in advance!!
Quinn
Sharing my thing in case it helps,
To me, the key is to learn how to no restrict yourself. I’ve been a year Matt Stoning, and I think I’m starting to heal my relationship with food.
What really stresses me is the dogma, and it doesn’t matter if it is about avoiding carbs, skipping meals, follow a meal schelude or force myself to eat sugar, starch and salt in every food.
Nowadays I only have one restriction : never eat till fullness. I never liked being stuffed and feeling like crap. I have also suffered panic attacks after eating so much.
That given, I eat everything I feel like, when ever I feel like. If I’m eating and feel like I have to stop, I give up eating. Maybe I continue eating 10 minutes or one hour later, or whenever I like to.
Freedom. This is the key to me. I’ve never been free in terms of eating. Always binging, fasting, restricting and planning.
Remember when I avoided dinner because some papers I read about fasting blood sugar. Boy, such a painful nights those.
Now I use to eat icecream right after sleep. I’m sleeping without waking up in the middle of the night for the first time since I can remember.
Fuck what science says. Don’t wanna spend my life worrying about something that should be a pleasure.
Then you read about those centenarians who eat 2 pounds of chocolate a week and pizza and chips on a daily basis, and there you are, avoiding dinner because you read some shit.
Enjoy food. Eat whatever whenever you feel like and never get unpleasantly full. This is my philosophy now. Maybe it isn’t 100% Matt Stone, but I thank you, Matt, for inspiring me to reach this point.
P.S: And sorry, but I threw my thermometer through the window because I ended up developing a severe obsesive compulsive disorder.
Hi Mikel,
Thanks for your comment, I do agree 100%, stressing about food it not good either, I used to stress over food so much and avoided lots foods as well like you.
I do not like to feel sickly full but I am in a recovery and my stomach I need to stretch more after eating like a bird!
Well the thing is that ir I Only do 3 meals a day, I can,t take more than maybe 1500 1700 cal. Feel stuffed and eat les un the next leal and I end up under eating. If bajo “stretch” you mean force your stomach… I dont find it attractive.
Hello Matt, it sounds amazing. In your first book and other posts you adviced not to drink to much, it would f.e. lower your bloodsugar if you drink at breakfast and have watermelon. Now you are drinking 2 liters a day. Can you please explain this? Is there a difference for people who want to gain weight and those who want to lose some weight?
And how is it possible for you to eat everything while there are so many people oversized people who are also eating everything without dieting, not restricting one kind of food, who exercise a little but not to much.
I would love to hear your answers! Thanks a lot.
You’re welcome, Carl. Matt has a lot of good things to say,. I enjoyed your creative use of the Gospel. LOL !
Yep, people ( many medical doctors and bloggers (like Lyle McDonald, James Krieger, CarbSane et al ) dramatically overstate these studies and science in general. We have a loooooooong way to go. Scientists need nothing but humility. What diseases are cured ? Hardly any.
Physical principles themselves are very uncertain. Matt has a healthy perspective and always has.
Dr. Jeffery Friedman’s research, while not set in stone, is quality and has been taken up and found useful and it is explanatory.
Lots of junk is published all the time , various flawed studies, researchers without expertise, etc. The Endocrine Society , recently seems to be coming around in some papers I saw. However,. most just spew the usual blame it on food nonsense. The observations do not support the simplistic calorie idea. True severe obesity is some sort of major malfunction and very, very poorly understood.
Science does not teach us anything experience or effect does. This effect has shown this etc – Feynman said that once. All the experiments are inaccurate. Tomorrow will always have a great range etc.
Physical laws appear to be nested like Russian Dolls. Dr. Thorne is MANY times smarter than Colpo, McDonald, GUyenet, Nikoley. He knows how much physics we do not understand. I hope the Blogosphere readers are never tricked again by Colpo et al . Lyle McDonald ( he is more certain than Colpo even and worse)is a fraudulent physics misusing blowhard. Matt is one of the ONLY HONEST guys out there. IF ONLY the public KNEW how much of a physics abusing charlatan McDonald et al are- especially CarbSane. Jimmy Moore should expose her lack of knowledge.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rHsBDTy3yEE
Once I stopped dieting (every time) I always maintained my weight. It was only when I decided I couldn’t stand myself at that weight, and went back on another diet that after the starvation period I regained the weight, plus additional “insurance pounds”.
Matt Stone was the one who actually opened my eyes to realize it was dieting that was making me gain weight all those decades. It was an epiphany which finally opened my eyes. (I wish I could be the weight I was when I first thought I was fat – but in my 60’s, I think it’s here permanently)
Since then, I have been eating what I want, when hungry (which doesn’t happen with regularity- and I’m actually forcing myself to eat- have very small appetite and big belly). Temps from 97.6 am to late in in the evening- 99?(right before bed). And have gone gluten free because I have Hashimoto’s and thought it prudent to try it – doctor and others say it’s a necessity.
Unfortunately, I’ve actually found that my heart starts pounding when I reintroduce gluten after 2 months of staying GF. I am pissed off- I really believed that GF was just a fad, unless you have actual celiac. But I’m getting plenty of starch type of grains from GF bread & substitutions. And unfortunately, being GF has not lowered my weight at all.
And then here’s the thing no one can figure out- I have muscle cramps that wake me up in the middle of the night – from my toes, calves and upper legs. I live on magnesium malate & glycerinate (in a fire, I’d run back in to get it)… Because so many claim cramping is due to dehydration I attempt to drink more (don’t drink any alcohol- I think I’m allergic to it)- but not to the point my pee ever gets clear- and it does nothing… tried pickle juice, electrolytes…. nothing helps. No one has been able to help – did you know that there’s no medical specialization that focuses on muscles? Isn’t that crazy??!!
Hi, Lianda:
I’m sorry you’re suffering with the muscle cramps. I often get “Restless Legs” at night, when I get really tired, but I’m still able to go to sleep. Staying asleep is another issue – and, I don’t believe is related to my legs.
Anyway, have you had any tests to confirm if you’re low in magnesium? From what little I know, I believe magnesium can be tested via blood, hair, and intracellular. I would guess that intracellular would be the best method, but I don’t really know.
Earlier today, I was reading on a forum dedicated to Lyme Disease and read the following. Your post about muscle cramps made me think of it.
“Boron – Boron is overlooked as something that helps immunity but without it, we wouldn’t survive. Boron is unique in that it is in the periodic table with a row of metals but it isn’t a metal. This makes it extremely important as a co-factor in many reactions. It affects thyroid function, estrogen metabolism, magnesium levels, and calcium deposition in the bones. Since we as Lymies need magnesium, increasing boron levels is the way to increase magnesium levels. That is why many thyroid patients don’t respond like they should to magnesium supplementation. Increase their boron and their magnesium levels go up and helps with the thyroid. Many of us don’t eat enough foods high in boron.”
The person writing the post is a Pharmacist who has suffered with Lyme Disease on two different occasions. I’m not sure if the information will be helpful to you, but figured I should mention it.
I wish you much luck in finding and resolving the root cause of your muscle cramps.
Take care,
Buck
Hi Bucko-
Thanks so much for the first original suggestion I’ve heard – about Boron! Because I am taking a LOT of magnesium, and don’t test low on magnesium, that looks like a really good idea that I will definitely follow-up, and let all know if it helps. It’s really weird (and painful) to be sitting, relaxing watching TV and see my toes all go in different directions!
Boron for me ( instead of Borat! )
Hi, Lianda:
Happy to offer the suggestion. I do hope it helps. I’m not sure on the dosing, so maybe start low and go slow.
In fact, Maybe some baseline testing for Magnesium and Boron (others?) would be helpful, before supplementing. Or, you could “supplement” the old fashioned way — with food. :-)
Oh, something else I recently heard, regarding magnesium is a product called Magnesium Threonate. If you’re not familiar with it – as was the case with me – you may wish to look into it. I heard about it from Russell Blaylock, MD.
If you go to YouTube and search for video “pQpc5-YD5Hs” (without quotes), you can listen to him discuss various forms of magnesium – including Magnesium Threonate.
Finally, if supplement with Boron doesn’t help…you could try supplementing with Borat! Watch one Borat film three times a day for two weeks. ha!
Best wishes,
Buck
Hello Matt or someone who can help me, because I don’t know if Matt will read this.
I just read about Matt, his books etc. I know Matt is always looking for the best insights. Now it is entering the metabolic zone by eating anything you want and relaxing/sleeping as much as you can/need and having a good bodytemparure. Is that it? What about all the things written in the books/blogs before f.e. about what you should eat and shouldn’t eat too much (like walnuts). Because when I buy and read these books I want to believe what I read and take it into practice. I like to know everything about it and read as much as I can, especially about gaining weight and than eating everything I want without becoming to fluffy.
But now I am thinking maybe it is better to read less, eat more and sleep more.
Hopefully there’s someone reading this who can help me. Thanks in advance.
Hey MG,
I think advocating saturated fats over unsaturated fats for metabolic health is sound. I’d like to hope that it’s an unnecessary food paranoia, but I’m not convinced that it is. I do know that, especially if you are not underweight or haven’t recently lost a bunch of weight doing a ton of dieting, that you should really emphasize increasing your sleep and decreasing your stress. The more you can rely on these, and the less you have to rely on overfeeding, presumably the better. Although there’s no doubt the caloric abundance is an important factor as well.
Thank you Matt for your response!
Is it also possible for you to look at my questions above 17 July? Thanks a lot again.
Hey, Matt!
I should also add to my comment above that I’m feeling warm almost all the time. So just stating to wonder if my temp plays into the metabolic zone at all. When you get time, I would really love to hear what you have to say!
Thanks again, Matt!
Quinn
I’m not sure if temps have to be super RAGING hot to actually spontaneously lose weight (effortlessly without downregulation of metabolism) or not to be honest. Sounds good that you are feeling pretty good, eating what you want, and that your weight has been stable for 7 months. I’d just keep riding that out and not do anything stupid to screw it up with your fingers crossed that you might drop some fat. The only thing you can really do is try to get more sleep and relaxation and eat plentifully and consistently. A very small amount of actual “exercise” (breathing hard) might be worth experimenting with if you feel ready for it.
Awesome. Thanks, Matt!!
Obesity- severe , true , geneuine obesity- is GENETIC. This article p[oints it out datnig back to 2006, Dr. Jeffrey Friedman’s gene defect work and other work from he and his colleagues have re-checked this iover and over. Body shapes and types exist. The charlatans are abusing physics and this includes even Guyenet to an extent, which I am displeased to say. Lyle McDonald and CarbSane et al have exploited physics for years when obesity is a biological disorder as TOP physicists have told me. Physicist will not even COMMENT on the cause of obesity because they do not know and admit as much. They stress this a biological/genetic problem and potentially understood within that framework.
The direction top look is genetics, gut microbiota, disease states and hormones, sleep, and what exactly causes severe mammalian fat cells dysregulation and hoarding. The pee with gene malfunction will become very obese regardless of how much they eat, as Friedman has seen. There are many more CREATIVE areas too look into but this behavioral crap needs to be put to REST. This is exactly why Lyle et al have made ZERO progress in at least `10 years. The Endocrine Society shows SOME promise coming around and ADMITTING they do not know what causes obesity. Yet they keep peddling this nonsense called “energy balance” , a meaningless buzzword and gross misuse of physics for profit.
“Energy”, a number does NOT make things move.
Great as always, Professor Razwell!
I recall reading about a woman who had a fecal transplant from her daughter. The mother had always been thin and the daughter was a bit overweight.
After the transplant (which resolved the intestinal disturbance), however, the mother gained some extra weight, despite making no changes to her diet or lifestyle.
The mother made attempts to lose the weight, and, the last I recall, she had not been successful.
This example underscores what you’ve been saying for a long time! So much for “calories” and “energy balance.”
Best always,
Carl
Exactly, Carl. : )
Thanks for that story. I think I heard something like that in the past. Nice to read it again.
I think we need to treat obesity like a TUMOR of sorts. It’s a shame- Colpo, McDonald, Guyenet ( 2010 and prior he was promising) , CarbSane, Nikoley, Legge and others will continue to look totally in the wrong direction for solutions to obesity , asking the wrong questions and adhering to finding the cheese the Moon is made of. LOL ! They are getting NOWHERE. And have not even made a dent in a decade. meanwhile Friedman keeps on identifying n specific single GENE DEFECTS ( entirely responsible) – his percentage jumped from 5 %in 2004 to 15% around 2010 or so) and maybe more today- he expects it to keep jumping upward greatly. And there are other genetic disorders besides that.
I have never heard these book Blogosphere salesmen ( McDonald , GUyenet, Colpo etc.) EVER, EVER talk about treating obesity as a TUMOR. Taubes HAS at least briefly. I did , too, on my own. I recently found out it was proposed by a few in the past.
This TUMOR model has validity and makes MUCH more sense than the charlatan abuse of physics proposed by Colpo et al. As David Deutsch notes, we need GOOD explanations- hard to vary= to make progress.
. This tumor model is my own proposal ( one of the things I propose) and I believe Taubes mentioned this once in a lecture that Austrian scientists viewed it like a tumor , too. Here is some research about how expanding adipose tissue is LIKE a tumor overgrowth and requires a great deal of angiogenesis ( the creation of new capillary blood vessels from others ) to support these rapidly increasing volumes of tissues:
Google search: “RJ Seeley Cell Metabolism: Treating Obesity Like A Tumor”
Has been verified in primates. it also has done a lot in mice, too, the tumor drugs caused very significant PROFOUND fat loss. It looks promising. A growing body of observations indicate this can cause substantial fat loss.
Gary Taubes’ greatest contribution is trying to wake people up from their “energy balance” nonsense slumber dogma. If the calorie idea fails under extreme destitute poverty, it fails, the end. That is the ultimate test there is. patients in hospitals, if not for legal reasons alone ( not to mention ethical) never would have even remotely as harsh or austere conditions and cheating is always possible in a hospital. I was in Hurricane Mathew in Daytona Beach, Florida, I chose to stay. I enjoy storms. I was worried about the sea level coming in, though, quite a rough sea! I was ready to run to preempt it. i was at the top floor though of a 4 story building. I stayed in the motel. I had no access to food for 70 hours straight- went into it hungry , too. No place was open, bridge was shut down and no emergency services would come out to get me warned the motel owner. i was all by myself, no food whatsoever. The vending machine was broker-0 even so, I had only a 20, it took $ 1 dollar bills only. Those situations are the ultimate test- and these poverty areas are even worse than Daytona in a hurricane
Common fat gain in healthy people ( nothing wrong hormonally or medically) is SO much different situation than a genuine severely obese person – they are disfigured form their tumor like fat cell overgrowth. fat in their nooks and crannies, around knees, ankles, – everywhere.
I am flattered that you like my stuff. You are a nice guy, Carl I just try to honestly look into something- Lyle McDonald doesn’t. I admit obesity is not 1/10 solved – Lyle will not, nor will Stephan even. I wish Guyebnet would go back to neurobiology and leave this obesity thing. Taubes is doing far more for the betterment of our understanding of obesity with pressing questions and it is nto even his field. Much of what GUyenet says is at odds with great research from Friedman- outdated assumptive views Dr. Friedman’s work debunked years ago.
We need TOTALLY NEW INSIGHTS into obesity. Like Feynman noted is the situation in physics , “IF allll those ( previous_) methods actually worked, we would have gone on through there already.” Similar is the case for biology.
Take care, buddy,
Razzi
There is so much that is unknown about weight issues. And because of the considerable pressure on women to be thin (and other aspects of their appearance), dieting is so prevalent that I can’t think of one woman who doesn’t talk about their weight. Even if they are a ?normal? weight (size 8- 12) they talk about getting fat, and are pushing away desserts and ?fattening food?.
I admit, I was one of them. I started dieting decades ago when I was 126 pounds. Back then I knew nothing about dieting, but knew I didn’t want to get fat like my mother. And this is really what my story is about. My mother and I took the opposite approach to our bodies. She was a knockout up to her early 30’s ? all without dieting or exercising. But she developed chronic back pain after marriage (what a coincidence?)?. And her method of dealing with pain was to get in her recliner and rest (read, watch TV). She NEVER dieted. She seemed satisfied with her body.
On the other hand, I was always active- tennis, skiing, hiking, jogging (for a short, miserable time). I developed chronic back pain as well, but my method of dealing with it was to keep moving. We both had thyroid issues- her ?graves? disease resulted in doctors killing her thyroid and putting her on synthroid which had NO impact on her health- she was always cold, and no matter what I told her, she wouldn’t look for a doctor to give her natural thyroid meds.
On the other hand, when I developed Hashimoto’s I spent lots of time learning, and then finding a doctor to treat me with Armour thyroid, and making sure my body temperatures were as warm as I could get.
To make this long story short: My mother and I ended up in the same place: fat and in pain. I bring this up because of the discussion of genetics. YES, there are many other variables- my mother was a worrier, and my life has been about being dissatisfied with my body and creating my own stress. But I never binge ate, or ate out of stress. In fact, I have to force myself to eat more, and more often. And I’ve been on every diet ever invented. I’ve learned the way to gain weight: dieting and exercising.
So why did my mom and I end up at the same place besides taking opposite paths? Genetics? Stress? I really don’t know, and probably will never find out.
In my 60’s I’ve realized (thanks, Matt) that dieting is not going to make me lose weight. In fact, I dieted myself to fat. And even ?re-feeding? myself resulted in additional pounds, and never entering the Metabolic zone where the weight decided to reverse itself. (I think older people have to consider that their body works differently than younger ones). I work now on accepting what is, and being happy. It’s not easy for women to accept what is, when it is not what they want. But I’m tired of fighting something that probably will not change. It’s the Serenity Prayer for me: Serenity to accept what I can’t change; courage to change the things I can, and Wisdom to know the difference? I now enjoy eating and have absolutely no guilt about it- (and my weight never fluctuates anyway, according to my clothes). And if anyone looks at me and wants to judge me because I’m eating ice-cream and I ‘shouldn’t? because I’m fat- that’s THEIR problem- not mine!
I think you are awesome Lianda!
that’s very kind of you…. thanks, sincerely…
Well-stated, Lianda!
As for back pain, have you heard/read about Dr. John E. Sarno? I’ve heard some borderline-miraculous stories about how his work has helped people.
Sadly, he died last month, just one day before his 94th birthday. He had a good run and helped many people.
Thanks again, Buck for your suggestion. I’ll look it up.
And I’ve recently discovered Egoscue, and went for a first assessment with exercises to balance out the body – technology shows where you’re out of kilter (literally!) I’m leaning over to the right (but definitely NOT politically!) (and hips in front of the rest of my body- like “keep on truckin'”) . Their exercises help get you back in alignment. And as goes the body, goes the mind!
LOTS of positive reviews- even from thin people in pain (they don’t blame weight for pain issues- YEH!) I’ll let you all know how it works- AND, just got my boron delivered!
Excellent sentiments, Lianda. There is so much unknown and not only that , the same applies to questions about time and the origin of our universe- much, much uncertainty even in our deepest principles and various physical phenomena.
I wish more people would ditch dieting forever.I never had obesity but I developed a sort of man-or-rexia back in 2001. I have no idea what got me on that kick. Minus the brief stint with asthma related prednisone gain ( thankfully these days inhalers help most- the elsser of the evils)) around that time, I never suffered from obesity- I am more of a skinny mesomorph to muscular ectomorph body type with long legs. The entire concept of dieting is flawed and based on ignorance. It’s like breathing- that is largely involuntary- just because we can hold our breath very temporarily doesn’t negate that our breathing is controlled by a respiratory control center at the base of the brain.
Thanks for the write up for all.
Dear Matt, (and anyone else who wants to offer their perspective !) I am in recovery from an eating disorder (anorexia and exercise bulimia). I have weight restored and gone into overshoot (above my pre ED weight) and continue to experience a huge appetite and what I think is “hyper metabolism ” which is common amongst people recovering from a restrictive eating disorder. This is essentially what you describe happens during rest and refeeding. Increase in heat and heart rate, and it’s almost like my cells are vibrating with energy, but it’s a different kind of energy than I experienced during the ED which was a compulsive, energy deficit driven energy. Are you familiar with the process of what happens to the body during anorexia recovery? I can eat something like five or ten thousand calories and it’s as if I ate nothing. Where does all the energy go? I know my body is making cellular repairs, restoring organ function, building fat and lean body mass…and I also know that people who recover from anorexia require MORE energy afterwards. Why do you think that is? Also I am eating a crap ton of peanut butter in recovery, I crave it like crazy, should I be concerned about the PUFA content? Thank you so much for having been an inspiration to start this process of recovery in the first place. You truly help save lives!
PUFA content is fairly trivial when recovering from an eating disorder, so I wouldn’t worry about it. I still ate peanut M&M’s this morning, lol.
As far as all the extra calories, it first goes primarily into fat, and then it goes into building lean tissue. A TON of it goes into rebuilding brain tissue, liver tissue, and other extremely metabolically active tissues, not just muscle tissue which isn’t all that metabolically active in comparison.
It’s good that you’re in overshoot and totally fine that your appetite is still raging. It’s not always a gradual decrease in appetite. For some it just suddenly stops and goes closer to what most would consider “normal,” like in the 15-20 calories per pound of bodyweight per day range.
Wow thank you Matt. It means a lot to hear your feedback! You’ve been a huge part of the process of my recovery and it helps to know that I am on the right track. This is such a great community of people and having so many diverse perspectives is a breath of fresh air in discussions of “health,” which tend to be myopic and reductionist. Healing from an eating disorder is the hardest thing I’ve ever done, but I can see it’s possible to reach full recovery.
Absolutely. Eating disorders SUCK to recover from. You basically have trained your body to be intolerant to food, and the process of getting back to normal feels like dying inside, and the emotional rollercoaster is out of control. But it can be done. Don’t believe that “eating disorders can’t be cured” bullshit.
Erin -thanks so much for sharing your story!
And Lianda – Thank you for sharing yours too! It’s so helpful for me to hear other people’s stories. They help me learn how to accept myself, too.
Erin – I struggled with anorexia myself 15 years ago when I was 14, and I remember that after I had been released from hospitalization, pretty much all I wanted to eat was pb&j … like crazy… (i’d never really liked it before) and tons and tons of MetRx chocolate/peanut butter meal replacement bars… until one day I was eating one of those bars, and it stopped tasting like Reese’s peanut butter cups, and more like pure vitamins (what my friends had been saying for months!)… and I never ate one again. Haha. I kind of think my body needed the vitamins so bad, I didn’t taste them for a time…until it was done.
When I was in recovery though, I was still so scared of overdoing it (probably because my appetite was HUGE).. and so I would only eat my alotted amount of bars or pb&j, but I pretty much thought about food nonstop.
I’m so proud of you for embracing your recovery! And sounds awesome that your cells are vibrating with energy :) I bet your recovery will be faster and more complete than mine was because you are listening to your body, and giving it what it needs. I think only now (14 years later, and thanks to Matt) am I fully recovering some of the more energetic aspects of the eating disorder- namely my relationship with food, and welcoming it openly into my body.
I didn’t weigh myself after the anorexia period (and still dont), but I imagine I am probably 20 or so lb above my pre-anorexia weight (which makes a lot of sense given that I was 13-14 then and I’m 29 now).
I have also at various times since then, had pb cravings like MAD, and I could eat tons of it, (and/or chocolate milk), and it just felt like it purely turned into energy (helping my digestion, sleep, body warmth, etc.)… and then other times, the idea of it is kinda repulsive. I would love to hear Matt’s weigh in here as well… as peanut butter has been something of a miracle food for me too. And I also wonder about the PUFAs…
As far as the question of what the body is doing with all that energy.. my acupuncturist explained to me once that in Blood deficiency (one of the outcomes of my anorexia – a lack of Blood, in the Chinese sense), your organs (in a Chinese sense) are like plants that do not get water, and they kind of shrivel up (I think particularly things like reproductive organs, non-essentials, etc.), and that when you start to build the blood back up (which takes about 4 months), its like you are giving them the water and nutrients they need, and it takes a quite lot to rebuild organs that have gone kinda into hibernation to some degree… so that is what I think about it at least …. and then once they are fully functional, they use the energy to do their jobs, growing hair, nails, moistening all the things that need lubrication, etc. etc. which still probably takes an extra amount because there’s been a deficit there as well.
That’s just my 2 cents, though. I’d love to hear Matt and others weigh in!
Again – keep up the great work, Erin! And thanks for sharing your story.
Thank you so much for that feedback Colleen! I am about 4 months into my recovery, and am still struggling to stop exercising which is a huge compulsion to me and I know it’s affected my appetite and progress. I am getting help to get through all of this, and to be ok with what my body needs in recovery and for the rest of my life. I think our perception of how much food we “should” eat (especially as women) is so skewed by our culture that tells us to eat as little as possible. So what I perceive to be “a lot” is probably a normal amount of food. I’m committed to seeing this through though admittedly it gets hard sometimes to stay motivated when the allure of the ED is strong. But total freedom is worth whatever I have to do!
Erin and Colleen, I too crave peanut butter a lot. I love the stuff. I love to put it in oatmeal, in smoothie, on toast with bananas. I am not an expert, but I imagine stressing over PUFAs in peanut butter is worse than the PUFAs in it. I could be wrong, but I just figure if you have strong cravings for something you should probably go with it.
At least I am eating organic haha! I hear similar cravings from others who are recovering from EDs. PB for the win!
Haha. Yes organic PB for the win! And I agree with you, other Erin, that stressing about it is probably worse than the PUFAs anyway… Matt – your thoughts?
Erin M – Total freedom *is* worth it. And: you can and will get there.
I definitely remember the allure of the ED as well. I guess looking back, I kept thinking I was done, but really I’ve kinda eased up on it bit by bit for many years, and now is when I’m really feeling near total freedom from both food and exercise compulsions/restrictions/rules, but I have no doubt that you can do it faster than me. I remember my nutritionist at time telling me that every meal plan she gave me was the BARE MINIMUM of what I needed to be eating, and that there was no one with a higher caloric need than me in that moment (except for someone with anorexia who was pregnant). But I still would undercut the plans, and lost weight (a poor strategy that eventually landed me in the hospital)
It was definitely for the best, though I didn’t like it at the time… In the hospital, I had to eat the full meals they provided (and in a gown so that I could not see how bloated my stomach got), and also was not allowed any exercise at all (not even standing too long) until – at the end, I was allowed some very gentle yoga, and to take short walks with my family.
Not sure if you struggle with these things too, but figured I’d share on the off-chance:
1) Bloating. I think when my stomach would get bloated, I would freak out and think I was getting fat. But really, my body was both just exhausted and not sure how to handle the extra food I was giving it. This did not (and does not) actually turn into fat, but the more I feed my body, and the less tired it is, the less I bloat out when I eat. And the stronger I become. I even notice this now – often I’ll be bloated before I eat, and then after I eat, I’m not (that’s not how it was when I first started eating again (at that point – I would get bloated afterwards), but its interesting to notice that the bloating is now actually resolved by food… because its probably really just my muscles/body being exhausted and not having the energy to hold themselves up – something called Downbearing of Spleen Qi or Exhausted Spleen Qi in Chinese medicine).
And 2) Exercise. I hear you on the exercise compulsion… oh, girl! You will be able to let go of it when you are ready. It certainly took me a while to completely let it go (15 years haha), and hopefully it’ll be faster for you. After the hospital, I started cross country running (until I got shin splints) and then in college and until about 3-4 years ago, continued running most days 3-6 miles. I noticed with my running, however, that I never really got stronger, I just would plateau and maintain… and eventually (about 3-4 years ago) I got so tired (fatigued all the time), and realized that my running was probably actually draining me (In chinese medicine, exercise uses up qi (energy), blood, and yin – all substances that I was lacking haha.. but I refused to see the running as a problem for a long time). I still couldnt quite quit though, so I reduced the intensity, and made up for it in length/duration – exactly the trap Matt talks about in his books. Then I reduced the length as well. Interestingly, my body stayed pretty much the same through all this (though the more I would run, the puffier my face would get, and the more bloaty my stomach would get – I think it was just my body showing its exhaustion… kinda the opposite of what exercise was supposed to do for me).
When I discovered Matt Stone, I decided to quit my morning walk/run thing all together. I realized I’d been doing it every day for so long, and maybe it wasnt serving me. Reading his books gave me the permission I needed to stop, and not feel guilty or stressed about it (which I CERTAINLY would have felt had I tried to do this earlier, and that level of stress may have been counterproductive). But – amazingly enough, it was the greatest gift of time, energy, and most of all, freedom!!!, to not HAVE TO do my run/walk every morning. I went to the beach with friends, and ate tons of pizza, buttery toast, chocolate, etc., and some friends went running, but not me! and guess what?! I was fine. Took some naps instead. Played in the ocean. May even have more muscle now, and certainly a warmer body temperature, less bloating, less puffy face. Isn’t that funny? I waited until my body CRAVED exercise, and then did only my shortest run, and only once a week for a while. I definitely have felt myself getting stronger and more free over this time period. Now – its up to the cravings – when I feel running or climbing or whatever, I do it, and when I dont, I sleep in, and eat a big breakfast with no need to make up for it.
3) Yoga/Qi Gong/Tai Chi/Meditation/Mindfulness….I took a vacation from these as well during my month of RRARF (may be longer or shorter for you… but a month seemed about right for me), but I have recently re-incoporated them into my life. Not necessarily every day, but I try to take breaks from my computer/work to gently stretch and breathe and center every so often, and I definitely feel better when I do that. Helps address some of the need for stress reduction that I was fulfilling with exercise – but in a much more gentle way, less taxing on my body.
4) Portion sizes for women. Yeah this is something that gokaleo.com blogger talks about too, and I totally feel you on falling into the “women are supposed to eat small amounts and be dainty” thing. I lived that way for a long time for sureeeee. But – you know what – diving into big meals, and really loving them – and my body – in the process, feels really good. Powerful. Strong. And I like that vision of women too… the ones who love their curves, love their strength, beautiful powerful, and owning it :) Eff the people who want us to be small, weak, powerless, eat less, and not make trouble.
Okkkkk – I hope some of this is helpful. If you have any other questions/concerns or anything at all, I’m always glad to share my experiences. I know how much hearing from other people has helped (and continues to help) me.
Hugs. stay strong.
My name is jake. I’m 19 years old, and I’m in a tough situation.
I’ve been hospitalized 2 times in my life for severe bradycardia caused disordered eating. I was hospitalized February 4th of 2016 with a heart rate that stood in the 20s and again this year on April 13th of 2017. My heart rate hit a low of only 12 beats per minute this year!!!! My body temperature was in the 80s!!! I was literally on my death bed.
I was at Stanford medical hospital for 40 days and was put on a 8,300 calorie diet while being in bed all day. I was 107lbs standing at five foot six when I entered, but by the time I left I was 174lbs of fat all over.
After getting out of the hospital of my first starvation, I was put on a 5000 calorie per day diet, and I got all the way to 175lbs in just two months and was miserable.
(Before my anorexia I was happy, warm, healthy and 130-145lbs year round. I was chasing down a division 1 tennis scholarship!!!!!!)
After gaining so much weight after my first starvation I returned to the tennis court and began to crash diet the fat away in june of 2016… I played hard tennis daily, and lifted heavy weights religiously 5 days a week. The fat was coming off scary fast, and while it was coming off, I was seeing all of the muscle that I had built up underneath.
I ended up reaching my best physical looking physique by September of 2016 at 140lbs… I was carrying only a 6-8 body fat percentage as my abs were very visible and my vascularity was even showing in my abs, chest, and shoulders. I was in love with my body but my hormones and metabolism were absolutely destroyed as a result.
From September of 2016-January of 2017 I maintained my body and weight exactly.. however I was eating about 1500 calories a day, was lifting heavy 5 days a week, and was playing about 3-4 hours of collegiate tennis a day.
My hands were freezing. My testosterone was only 70 nanograms per deciliter, and my energy was killed…. however I was in love with my body so I kept it up.
In January I lost a couple pounds, and in February I lost a couple more. In march I hit a full on relapse due to some seriously awful family situations and I dropped down to 108lbs by April 13… April 13th I was hospitalized….
my hormones/ metabolism never even recovered from my first starvation that took place in late 2015-early 2016….
while I was hospitalized my heart went out several times for 10 seconds, my organs were damaged , hormones were whacked out, bones were brittle, skin was flaky, electrolytes were messed up, and I was miserable psychologically and physically in pretty much every way.
Now after being at Stanford for 40 days on a 8300 calorie diet per day I have blown up into my 170lbs self.. however this time I have no muscle…
my hormones still aren’t recovered, and I feel awful in every single way. I’ve never been so low in my life.
I’m maintaining my fatest self on what feels like very little calories
My hands are cold. I don’t get hungry like I used too. My energy is awful. My motivation is gone, and my testosterone is nonexistent!!
I’m supoosed to be attending school spring of 2018 as a collegiate tennis athlete with scholarship!!!!!
I want to get healthy and feel good again. I want to look good again too. I also want to feel hungry and eat again!!
At this point I’m desperate for help. I’ve never felt so hopeless. I’ve never felt so low….
Can you please help me?
-jake
Sure dude. Email me sometime and then we’ll talk about it. sacredself@gmail
Sorry to hear you’ve gone and fucked yourself up at such a young age. But the good news is that at your age you can and will recover, you just have to have patience that’s not typical for man your age, as well as a relaxed attitude about your physical appearance (which is not typical for a type A perfectionist, which I bet you are).
But you can definitely fix this and go on to have a great life. So don’t get too dragged down by your present situation. I look forward to talking with you.
Holy shit Jake, seems like you are trying to recover from a really bizzare situation. Though I’ve never experienced having such a slow pulse rate, I really understand your frustration from gaining tons of weight (or fat to be more specific). Actually I’ve been chubby since childhood, which bugged me a lot since I didn’t know why I was fat to begin with. I desperately tried to lose weight, which always bounced back up when I was not able to continue the diet. Since I found 180 degree health, I now have a hope to finally see my warm lean self for the first time. I know it can take quite a while for both of us to shed off the excess fat, but never give up and we’ll both make great achievements :)
Best,
Juan
Jake,
Wow. What an intense set of experiences you’ve been through!
I did get EKGs as well when I was in my anorexia phase, and the heart rate was definitely very slow which is what sent me to the hospital as well (tho I’m not sure how slow), … and it was in the 40s-50s regularly up until I started RRARFing (my acupuncturist later told me that my slow heart rate was making me prone to stroke… which shocked me considering I thought I was finally eating and being all healthy and shit haha.. but the low intensity exercise and low carb (and likely low calorie tho I wasn’t measuring) nature of my diet was still probably keeping me down looking back).
I’m proud of you for gaining the weight back (though I knowwwwww its hard to let go of yourself looking the way you did at your shreddiest :) … but at least for me, what has helped is to trust that I will love my body again, but to focus on healing its functionality first and foremost – this is truly a matter of life and death for you I think… and then let the appearance be a true reflection of the greater underlying strength and health that you have built). I’m super super glad you reached out to Matt. The fact that you are young, aware, and strong minded (as evidenced by your post and the fact that you are reaching out for help) is going to take you far in your healing journey.
Please feel free to holler here if you need any additional support that veteran ED recoverers can provide. I’m always glad to provide any support that I can, and would love to hear updates as you progress.
Sending you a big hug and all my best.
Thanks all so much for sharing your stories as well.
This has been the most painful, and hardest time of my life.
One things that is really hard for me is seeing all these other anorexia “recoverers” around me that are so much leaner.
It just sucks because I never even felt like I got to enjoy the relaxation and food of rrarf.
I’m lost for words, and I really hope you can help me out Matt!!!
I sent an email your way to “sacredself@gmail.com”
I hope to hear from you soon
Erin Mac Farland and Colleen,
I too have struggled with disordered eating. I was put on a diet at 7 because I was heavier than the other kids. I wasn’t actually pudgy (not that I should have been restricted anyway) just weighed more than what I was supposed to. I developed a fucked up relationship with food in no time. I was chewing and spitting a lot, starving, bingeing, overexercising etc. My weight soared in my teens when I stopped eating altogether in front if people while eating tubs of ice cream and bars and bars of chocolate alone. Hit 200lbs and then tried to lose it. I was normal about it at first (in the sense that my eating resembled “normal” for the first time ever but as I g it complimented and made to feel like a better person, I began restricting even though I had already reached a healthy weight. I began eating just tuna and lettuce for dinner everyday and exercising for 4 hrs. I ended up 30lbs underweight within weeks. I also snapped very quickly and began eating like a maniac. I would come home from school and stand in my kitchen and eat the entire contents of the cupboards and freezer. My mother was horrified and seriously worried as I wouldn’t speak, I would just walk in, and for two hours I would continuously eat everything she had just bought to myself. This went on for months. I would order a few large pizzas and doughnuts and dessert and eat it in one sitting. Then try to diet and would then eat even more. Curiously, in those few months, I gained back to a healthy weight plus 10 lbs, but did not gain any more. I had been on low carb diets since, but always ate to hunger as opposed to starving and eventually gave up dieting completely about a year ago. I had been Raarrfing and eating loads of ice cream, chocolate and pizza and feel a lot better. I now enjoy less processed stuff too and my eating is more balanced. I have a belly I don’t like, but I somehow haven’t gained much. I’m about 10lbs above my reistic healthy weight. In a weird way the thing I despised so much (binge eating) is what I think actual saved my health. When I think back in when I was starved, I wanted starch, sugar, salt and fat. And I ate loads of it. It’s amazing to me that no matter how much we are told it a food is bad for us, our bodies will eventually override the bs and make us eat. I don’t think I’m in the metabolic zone, I don’t lose weight if I eat loads, but I also don’t gain easily. I feel more energetic and I sleep like a baby all the time. All I can say is to trust your body and remember that this is the best hope there is. Diets don’t work but accepting your body and enjoying food improves your life in so many ways! I wish you guys the best of luck ?
Hey Matt, Juan here. I just wanted to give you an update for my current stats since February: I’m 5’8, 208lbs, and have 3 bowel movements/day. I had to gain another 36 lbs since my last comment(very close to the weight before dieting), but the weight gain stopped despite eating a lot. I also had some crazy things going on internally, such as having daily nosebleed just by lightly scratching the nose and having numb feet whenever I woke up during my sleep. Fortunately, those symptoms are gone now and I’m feeling great about it.
Although my physique looks pretty much the same prior to dieting, the consistent stools I have most of the time tell me that I’m totally different inside the body (Probably because of a high meat, moderate-low carb diet and sleeping only 3-5hrs/day, I had ridiculously bulky and rock-hard stools that easily clogged the toilet back then). I know some people think that eating highly palatable foods mess up your brain circuit thus leading to obesity by making you eat more of those, but in my experience it only happens when your body is in the process of gaining the weight (I ate 5 small containers of ice cream/day in the beginning of the refeed, and now I only eat a cup of it every 4-5 days), so I am not very concerned about what foods I eat.
By the way, I also wanted to share with you this link about a Japanese food fighter who never puts on the weight despite eating a lot.
https://japantoday.com/category/entertainment/gal-sone-discloses-secret-of-speed-eating
She seems to burn off the fat much faster and has better gut flora than the normal individuals. I dug deeper into this, and also found out that she has a lot of brown adipose tissue, stable blood sugar that never skyrockets (high insulin sensitivity?) and a high body temperature that is resistant to cold. Although she seems to eat good amounts of PUFAs, her metabolism is so high that it probably overrides the negative effects of them. I wouldn’t say we should follow the food fighters’ diet or anything like that, but it is pretty amazing to see something that is confirming what you have been researching for the past few years.
Sounds good man. Glad to hear it.
And yeah, I know Gal Sone. Not personally of course, but I know of her and have always been quite interested in competitive eaters. Matt Stonie is my favorite :)
Oh yeah, Matt Stonie, he is also amazing (and insane) for sure. I don’t know whether ordinary individuals can reach the competitive eater metabolism, but it is interesting to watch the flexibility of physiology in some individuals.
Anyways, I just saw an article about Mariah Carey gaining her weight all the way up to 235lbs after a diet. I also read her eating only protein mainly from Norwegian salmon garnished with capers back in the end of 2016. I guess her body is dying to recover from her “fat melting” protein diet (Though she will probably think her weight gain is unhealthy, going back to another ridiculous diet).
She needs a 180D lover to come rescue her. Oooh baby. haha
Erin and Colleen,
Thanks you do much for your words here.
I believe in eating everything you crave for as the only real solution to ED but how did the two of you make the change,the turning point, put your anxiety aside and go for it? From emotion to ratio?
Thanks, MG
PS Jake, I wish you all the best. You can and will recover, and your true self knows it too otherwise you wouldnt have come so far and wouldnt have asked for Matts advice! You
will make it and be an recovery example for others!
MG, I wouldn’t say I am 100% recovered. But I am doing better than ever. Every now and again, (it’s rare but it happens) I feel guilty about my eating and might binge. I have diet thoughts at times, but I know not to go there. I think what always brings me back to sanity is the acknowledgement that NOTHING ELSE WORKS. NOTHING. At my thinnest I knew I couldn’t maintain the starvation. I knew I would be sensitive to regain. I also remember the binges that cane about through dieting and I was eating so much my life was on hold for years. I don’t want that for myself. Concentrating on what you want that’s currently missing is important. “I want to be able to eat some mc donalds sometimes if it’s convenient to me.” “I want to be able to have a snack and feel good and not have it define me.” “I want to be able to concentrate on important things and live my life” etc. I don’t think it’s always easy. I still wish I was 30lbs lighter to look at. I see thinner people who think nothing of eating a burger and ice cream and get angry at myself for ever dieting to begin with. Sometimes I see fitness ads and I think “maybe if I just cut carbs..” and then I remember the physical,psychological, social, and emotional torment it brings and I feel torn. I think the biggest solution to it is to not be too attached to your appearance. A lot of us wrap up our body image with our inherent worth and sex appeal, and then wonder why our eating is so strained. You can’t place your need for love and belonging (or sex) above need for food without going on a crazy train. I think looking for and acknowledging the other things that are appealing about you other than body weight allows for a more relaxed relationship to food and a happier life. A person’s smile, accent, sense of humour, interests,intellect and heart all matter more than appearance. We all know that, but there’s a disconnect with this knowledge and how it applies to us because there’s a general sense of “I’m not good enough” that gets in the way. That’s what needs the work. The food is all secondary.
MG and Jake, The process of recovering from an Eating Disorder has been the hardest thing I’ve ever done. I didn’t understand I even had an eating disorder until I got very sick. So sometimes that mental block gets in my head and I tell myself I don’t have to follow the rules of recovery because I’m not actually sick. But as soon as I think I can restrict somehow (even mentally) or exercise, I have wickedly strong hunger signals. Because I don’t fit the “typical” profile of someone with anorexia (a teenage girl who reaches an insanely low BMI) it took me a long time to understand what was going on with me, why not eating felt better than eating and why I couldn’t stop compulsive movement. Since anorexia is a genetically based mental illness triggered by energy restriction, I had to figure out what happened in my history that triggered the state of energy deficit. Once that state is entered, the disease kicks in and obsessive thoughts about how to maintain that state of energy deficit take over. So in recovery we must work towards a state of energy surplus which can take quite a while, especially if one continues to engage in restrictive eating patterns (mental or physical restriction) and exercise. I have struggled immensely with giving up exercising in my recovery. Stopping running was relatively easy, but weight lifting and compulsive, low level movement has been much more difficult. So even though I have gained weight over the past 5 months, (about 30 or 40 lbs) I have continued to have hang ups about eating certain foods or amounts of foods and ceasing exercising completely. So I have weight restored but in a quasi restrictive state. So my focus recently has been on stopping exercise completely and liberating myself from restrictive food thoughts. I will not pretend that this has been easy. I am self conscious about my body looking much more feminine, and even though I retained a good amount of muscle I feel very aware of my “recovery belly” which I know is a protective mechanism wherein the body stores fat around the organs as the healing process progresses. This supposedly redistributes after a good amount of time at the higher weight. In line with what Matt says, often times those who have allowed their bodies to heal completely with unrestricted eating and rest will find their bodies eventually return to their lower pre ED weight (such as in the Minnesota starvation experiment). I honestly get worried about this though and sometimes have a hard time having faith that my body won’t end up being at a weight that I am uncomfortable at. It is so frustrating because I think women who are bigger and curvier are much more attractive than the “ripped” twelve year old boy look that is being pushed on us by the fitness industry. I know this is because of my own issues, I just wish I could truly embrace my bigger body and this entire process, but somedays it’s a real struggle. What keeps me going is the improvement in my mental state, increase in my libido, return of my sense of humor, better sleep and the ability to relax. If we lived in a culture that wasn’t so fat phobic this weight wouldn’t be an issue. Purposely gaining weight is NOT an easy process and you feel very socially vulnerable doing so. But I’m trying to embrace my contrarian nature and go against the oppressive standards of a society that is centered around profit making and is successful at making people feel inadequate in myriad ways so they can sell them a solution to their low self esteem. This is a super long answer but it takes a great deal of mental fortitude to choose recovery in the first place because you are essentially fighting your biology and going against everything “nutritional science” tells us we should do. But I find if I’m honest about this process it helps people who are embarking on this journey know that what they are going through is normal. I hope this helps. I know it wasn’t until I found Matt, and Tabitha Farrar, that I was finally able to start the recovery process. Let us know how you’re doing, this is such a great resource for people to turn to when they want complete freedom from diet culture.
Erin I relate so much to everything you just said! I have gained more belly fat than anywhere else. I too have found my more feminine body difficult to handle but at the same time I sleep better, am more relaxed, focus more easily, enjoy more food and my libido is higher. The belly fat has made me self conscious having sex, I push through it but it’s the reality of recovery I guess, being self conscious and uncomfortable sometimes. What is most annoying about fat gain around the abdomen is that everybody assumes you’re pre diabetic and there’s so much hatred for belly fat on a woman’s body. I try to ignore all diet and body talk and focus on just eating enough and enjoying food again. It’s not necessarily an easy journey but it’s definitely worthwhile.
I really can’t stand recovery right now at all. I’m currently in an eating disorder recovery center, and it feels hopeless.
On a day like yesterday, I was the fattest kid in the room, and a lady came in to do art therapy for us…..
I can’t help but think that the lady probably looked at me and assumed that my disorder probably was not as severe as those around me with significantly lower levels of body fat.
It’s not fair.
It makes me so evious to see people around me eating and recovering from anorexia, that get to be leaner than I am while in recovery!!!
It makes me so mad while all these other people around me that are in recovery complain about how hard their 15lbs weight gain is, or how their abs aren’t clearly visible anymore..
it makes me mad because I never even got to experience the joy of re feeding with delicious “healing foods.” I went into a hospital and was rapidly refed with non appetizing hospital food and gained just a fraction under 70lbs in 40 days!!
I’ve been restricting as much as possible with every opportunity/ meal I’ve had since treatment with the exception of A couple meals, and I’m still 3x the size of those around me.
I’m fat, and I never even fed myself!!
I still have a slow metabolism as I really don’t eat much.. I fast until 1pm, and I eat a portioned lunch/ snack/ dinner, and that’s it…
My eating disorder is raging as well, as I just recently went 4 days without eating a single calorie.
I’m an anorexic waking up in a fat mans body, and before all of this I was a lean muscular athlete.
My disorder is raging, and my appetite is insane… if I don’t taste food I never get hungry, but if I taste food I realize how starving I truly am, and it takes a lot of calories to actually fill me up…. it’s petrifying though, because I don’t feel like I should be eating because I’m fat!!! When I was lean and muscular, or scrawny and skinny, It was much easier to give myself permission to endulge, and even overeat.
Now that I’m fat, why should I be overeating?! It will only make my problems worse.
I don’t get how I’m ever going to end up being the NCAA collegiate athlete spring of 2018 with my current condition and mentality. I couldn’t even manage to feed myself for 4 days straight despite my pulse dropping down into the 30s.
I can’t stand seeing people around me talking about how hard their weight gain is when they’ve only put on a fraction of what I have in a slow gradual manner. I feel like my leg was chopped off, and I’m listening to people complain about a paper cut.. its infuriating.
All I want is to get hormonally, mentally, and physically healthy again so that I can be happy.
Why does that feel like so much to ask for?!!!
I don’t know what to do anymore.. I literally have no idea what to do anymore.
My support system is done with this disorder stuff… I’m petrified because I’m not getting better, and I can’t stay in treatment.
I fear that I am perfect recipie for relapse.
What am I supposed to do now?! I truly am lost, and need guidance.
Thank you both so much for your answers and honesty. Sounds like you hear the EDvoice but let it be nothing more than that, it’s not the real you. In recovery proces you always have to be aware to make that difference if you want full recovery.
I just wondered how you made the change to eating everything you want and need, the first time takes the most courage.
mg quite frankly the hunger got so overwhelming that I couldn’t fight it anymore. I had become so emaciated that my body was absolutely screaming for energy. I couldn’t stop myself. That being said I still played ED games for a while during my first attempt at weight gain (I didn’t understand at the time I had an ed ) and even relapsed last year. But the hunger catches up. That’s how I started eating!
“…I think women who are bigger and curvier are much more attractive than the ?ripped? twelve year old boy look…”
AMEN!!!
Seeing Ashley Graham in a two-piece bikini drives me wild. I love curves…big busts and hips, especially. The curvy women in the 50s were amazing.
Haha! Lance, is “Rockwood” your real lady name?? That just makes your enthusiastic response about curvy women all the more amusing ????
I meant *last* name…autocorrect!
haha – Glad you got a laugh from my screen name! It’s actually a moniker given to me by a previous (curvy!) girlfriend. :)
Since I’m such a fan of Matt and his sophomoric humor, I figured this is the perfect place to use it.
Thanks, I just love that answers ????
Hey MG!
Thanks so much for your questions :) This is gonna be a bit of a doozy of a post (sorry Matt!)? but as it turns out, guess I had lots to say haha
Erin and Erin,
I resonate with your answers so much! – especially the stuff about accepting a more feminine body, belly fat, the challenge of going against nutritional science (when everyone around you thinks you’re crazy), and how vulnerable all of that makes me feel as well :) Thank you so much for sharing all of that!
And Erin – great point about the genetic nature of eating disorders. I hadn’t thought too much about it, but two of my aunts and my mom both had eating disorders earlier on in their lives. And there is something about that state of starvation that for some reason can feel so good to me (I think its the hormones or something), but there’s a euphoria, a feeling of being able to do anything, a sense of control, and an almost manic quality about it… that I still experience periodically (if I go for a while without eating).. and which disappears when I eat (and the crash after eating hits harder the more depleted I have become beforehand.. which probably makes it harder for people to allow themselves to eat at first). This euphoric state may be stronger for those of us who are predisposed to the eating disorder, thus making it more enticing. Is that what you’re saying Erin? I think dieting and restriction definitely are easier for me than eating a ton and not moving much haha… but then, that’s why RRARF has been so helpful. Counterbalancing my tendencies.
So MG, What got me to finally fully embrace eating as much as I need?
Great question.
I’m going to answer it in two parts. 1) What helped me with eating after my full blown ED experience, and 2) for the more recent RRARFing that I’ve done to rid myself of lingering disordered eating/thinking/relationship with food/body/eating/etc.
For me, the full-blown version of the eating disorder ended 15 years ago when I was 14 – after a year of low calorie, low fat eating and major weight loss, resulting in hospitalization.
So, I started eating again because…
Well, for 1) I sorta HAD to. In the hospital, if I didn’t eat what was on my plate, they were just going to make me drink a shake, and if I didn’t do that, they were going to put the shake in my feeding tube at night. I still could have pulled the tube out and people do, so the hospital’s rules weren’t the only answer, but I didn’t – and actually ate everything on my plate every time (It certainly helped that I had to wear a gown and couldn’t see my bloated stomach as I’ve written elsewhere). But, I didn’t fight this eating as much as I could have, so perhaps the real answer is #2 below…
2), and more importantly – I actively chose to heal, to do my best to end this eating disorder, and to not let it rule my life. This was probably not a decision I could have made at my thinnest (when I was in the worst of my starvation mode) because I was not thinking clearly, but once some of the weight had been restored, I had a couple major realizations: A) I read two books in that time: ?Stick Figure? and ?Good Enough. They portrayed what life was like for two women with anorexia, who lost their careers, friends, family, boyfriends, husbands, passions in life, money, and pretty much everything else ? all in the narrow pursuit of a rail thin skeleton figure. These stories showed me how my life could be… and helped convince me of the importance of NEVER EVER going back to my calorie restricting ways. Lots of people said once an anorexic, always an anorexic, but NO? I was not about to identify with it, much less let the disease it define my life. My willpower got me into this mess, and it was also going to get me out. And B) I realized that the main reasons that I had started restricting my calories were social ones: I wanted a guy to like me, and I wanted to be more liked/popular in school. I had felt out of control of those things, but my own body was something I could control (or so I thought?). While in the hospital, I realized that the calorie restriction had actually had the reverse-effect, making me less social, and my world much smaller. I didn’t even want to hang out with friends. It took too much energy. In fact, the summer before the hospitalization, I had spent in the car with my mom, driving around and picking my brother up from his activities while I (painfully slowly) would eat a bowl of Kix cereal with banana and 1% milk mixed with water. Or an apple. Before being hospitalized, rather than socializing with friends or family, I just would think about food, and eat it really slowly. My life had become pretty small.
Realizing these things, I basically chose, and have continued to choose a non-anorexia-oriented (and later: a non-restriction, non-compulsion-oriented) life. The choice has gotten easier and easier to make the further I’ve gotten from those days. But it continues. A lot is about tuning into my body and what it wants in the moment, and quieting my mind and what it tells me I “should” eat/do/etc. for whatever reason (diet plan, guru, Traditional Chinese Medicine advice…)
Unlike Erin, however, my hunger did not drive me to eat as much as I needed to. Before the hospital, I had taught myself how to take an hour to eat an apple by scraping my teeth along it, little by little. And I had basically taught myself to ignore my hunger feelings so much that they had disappeared. Though I didn’t have hunger feelings anymore (no more gnawing sensation in my stomach), I do remember that I did think about food ALL THE TIME before, during, and for several years after hospitalization. When was lunch? When can I eat again? How much food have I already eaten of my allotment today? These were the ways that my body was probably screaming at me: EAT EAT EAT!!!!! But I was all like “that’s not really hunger” and “it’s not time to eat yet.” (and that, my friends, is what you call denial).
I’ve learned that hunger can come in many forms from the wonderful stomach gnawing sensation to things more subtle: like thoughts about food, images of food appearing in your head, feeling tired/low energy, or feeling cold. I’ve needed to start listening to these quieter signs in order to eat a healthier, more appropriate amount of food.
That all being said, even after the full-blown eating disorder was gone, my disordered relationship with food and eating has taken a while to fully heal, and has manifested in many ways (from late-night binge-eating hummus and carrots – LOL, to chewing 4-5 packs of gum a day, to the GAPS diet tho I didn’t need it, to compulsive exercise every day), and while it is probably not 100% there, I bet its hovering around 97-99%. That is thanks to RRARF… reminding me that all food is good, and nothing is the devil -not even sugar or PUFAs.
Convincing myself to take this last step and allow sugar, dairy, cake, ice cream, refined carbs, etc. back in, and to stop exercising completely for a month, and then after that month, to only exercise when I crave it (and that’s not allowed to be every day, and not allowed to be long distance/endurance stuff – at least not yet) took a leap of faith in Matt’s stories, and the stories I’ve read on this blog. But moral of the story is: I was sick of feeling tired/fatigued so frequently for the last 3 years, and sick of having poor sleep, and frustrated since I’d tried basically EVERYTHING ELSE I could think of to recover (acupuncture, vitamins (including B12 injections), massage, walking, hiking, quitting my job, moving home, running, tai chi, qi gong, yoga, naps, etc.). I’m 29, and it seemed like it shouldn’t be this hard to get my health back! Also – I’d been hearing this little voice in my head whispering to me that I needed to let the daily run/walk go (it was the one constant I’d kept this whole time!).. but I kept shushing that voice. I was afraid of what would happen if I did. Would I fall apart? Balloon out? So, I’d needed some sort of external voice to tell me that it would be ok on the other side. Matt (and other bloggers) were that voice. Reading what Matt and others wrote about their experiences resonated with my own experiences so hard (of low-carb, restriction, long distance/low intensity exercise’s pitfalls, the downsides of starvation, etc.), and gave me the reassurance I needed to take the jump… to trust that I would be stronger on the other end, to accept that I may gain some weight in the meantime, to open myself to this new experience. At this point, my focus is mostly on my long-term health and well-being (energy, sleep, freedom, LIFE!, etc.), so I quiet my concerns about my weight/appearance when they arise (which they certainly still do!) by reminding myself why I’m doing this, remembering my end goals (which I write on my walls :) ), and telling myself that sometimes to get where we want to be, we have to take a bumpy, messy, uncertain ride, and a leap of faith.
Additionally, in addition to listening to the quieter more subtle hunger cues, its also been important to me in resetting my relationship with food, my body, and eating in general to – when the time comes to eat – take a moment to love and welcome the food into my body, and then to pay attention to how it tastes as I eat, and to sit in a few minutes of quiet afterwards to let myself digest and appreciate it (Note: I do this when I can… not every time… just my intention, and I enjoy it when I remember – but I don’t let this become yet another “should!”… cuz eff “shoulds”).
Warmly,
Colleen
Very amusing Lance, I tend to have the bawdy humor of a teenage boy, so Matt’s work is right up my ally…anti diet and off color jokes. Glad to have you here Mr. “Rockwood” ????????
Thanks a lot Colleen for the time to answer and hout honesty!
If anybody is interested, Maddy Moon came out with a new episode today on her podcast, Mind Body Musings, where she interviews Dr. Steve Prentice. He is the author of the book, Wrecked, which Matt has been promoting. It’s a great episode and commemorates Matt for all the work he has done and the person he is. I first heard of Matt from Maddy’s podcast. He was a guest on the second episode of her show. I am so grateful for stumbling upon that episode. Matt, you were the total catalyst in my eating disorder recovery. I’m in such a great place now. I feel so far removed from the dieting dogma that just hearing it out loud again how people are still on this hamster wheel, amazes me. It just reinstalls how important Matt Stone and Dr. Steve Prentice’s message is. Matt, I hope you know how appreciated you are. You’re awesome. (:
Quinn
Hi everyone!
I just wanted to say thanks for all the incredible words and stories you have shared.
Recovering from this is is probably the hardest thing I’ve ever tried to do… it makes me so angry, because before all of this I was already pretty lean and muscular!!!
I didn’t even know my heart could get slower than it was in my first hospitalization, and my body temperature being in the 80s is just rediculous.
Right now I’m still struggling a lot, but I’m much more hopeful since seeing your responses.
Right now what bugs me so much is how I’m maintaining my fat weight with very little food, my hands are cold, my disorder is raging, and my appetite is crazy.
It makes me so envious/ flustered when I see others around me talking about how they can relate as they gained 10lbs, or that they can’t see their abs anymore….
i feel like I just got my leg chopped off, and I’m listening to people complain about their paper cuts.
I’m desperate for help right now, because I’m lower than cotcos prices in the discount isle.
I reached out to Matt using the email he left me, and I’m crossing my fingers he gets back to me.
This is a tough ass journey, but still waters never made a skillful sailor right?
Hi Jake!
I totally get it. I said the same thing to Matt about some ED recovery Instagram accounts I follow. It seemed like none of those girls saw any kind of overset point. He said, you never know if these girls are really recovered like really, really.
I hope this helps you to share some of my numbers. I am a 5’5 26 year old female. My pre ED weight was 145 lbs. My lowest weight was 100 lbs and my current weight is 200 lbs. I gained 60 lbs over my pre ED weight and 100 over my lowest weight. It’s so hard.
I see and hear things on ED recovery though, how it’s ongoing and constant on the edge of relapse. Not true. That’s why I feel like I am at a different level or recovery than some of those girls I follow. Having said that, I have mourned for my 100 lb body every day for the last 3 years and 8 months. And I’m sure I still will, maybe always. But I was so sick and I don’t ever want to have to get better again.
I will also say the more time that goes by, the more at peace I feel with my size now. And not just mentally, but physically my body gets more and more comfortable to live in. But I know, it’s so hard for you right now.
All I can say is to just be really really gentle on yourself. And to just trust the process.
Quinn
Jake and Quinn, Firstly, I want say how impressed I am with you both, that you are willing to share your struggles here and be vulnerable. We all obviously want to help you Jake, and Quinn, sharing your experience with what recovery REALLY looks like is incredibly helpful. I agree 100% that many of the accounts of ED recovery do not show the full spectrum of what this process looks like and ultimately how it is resolved. Overshoot is something that is crucial to full recovery because your body needs to restore fat mass first, before it can make additional repairs to organs, cells, and finally to restore lean mass. I would highly recommend NOT watching or following most ED recovery Instagram accounts because they are mostly comprised of very young teen girls who absolutely are not fully recovered as evidenced by their following a low minimum recovery meal plan and thinking that reaching a BMI of 19 is sufficient. I will make it very clear that there are NO upper limits to food intake in recovery, and the higher the BMI you reach in overshoot, the more fully recovered you will be and it will be less likely that you will be susceptible to relapse. Jake, I know that sounds scary right now. Quinn was very brave to discuss her weight gain and to reveal the actual numbers. I am part of a wonderful forum that has helped me immensely in my recovery but it is understood that mentioning numbers can be triggering for many people. However, I find it very helpful because it lets people know that this kind of weight gain is completely NORMAL and HEALTHY. If people think you can gain ten pounds and be recovered, that does not set them up for success. Encouraging higher BMIs will do more for those who are concerned about recovery weight gain than telling them to aim for lower weights at which they most likely will still be very ill. Jake I understand the anger all too well. Everyday I feel the resentment that I have navigate this disease and walk through the fire of being incredibly uncomfortable and facing my worst fears (eating, resting, gaining weight). But I have gained SO much more than weight over the past 4 months. I can laugh again, my body is warmer, I don’t have to pee all the time, I can cry and feel all of my emotions, rather than having a flat affect. I remember I have interests outside of being obsessed with “health” and food and exercise. The compulsive thoughts start to fade. Anorexia hates weight gain. When I was emaciated, a couple of pounds sent me over the edge. But as I steadily gained weight, the higher number stopped freaking me out as much. I would HIGHLY recommend speaking with Matt and also looking up Tabitha Farrar. She was the first resource that I found to advocate very high minimums in recovery and to normalize the hunger I was experiencing. She has some excellent blog posts on her website and also has a podcast. AEDRA is a great organization that addresses the specific needs of adults going through recovery. One of the worst things about facing this disease as an adult is the widespread misconception that only young, very thin, white privileged girls suffer from this disease, and that they CHOOSE it in order to look like the girls they see in the media. EDs are NOT choices. They are genetically based mental illnesses. And they effect people of all sizes, weights, ethnic backgrounds, and socioeconomic statuses. It took me a very long time to even realize I had an ED because I didn’t know it was possible for an adult to suffer from one. That is a huge barrier for many people, and I think we need to do better as a society to reframe what causes this disease and who it affects. I could write about this stuff all day. But I truly hope the information here gives you hope and lets you know that what you are experiencing is absolutely normal. There is support out there for people in your situation. You cannot do this without help. I am glad you were able to share your story, because you truly are not alone!
Thanks, Erin. I took a lot of consideration before sharing my numbers as I wouldn’t want to trigger anyone. But because Jake shared his and mine were so close, I didn’t think they would be. That’s also why I said, I hope this helps to share. I thought hearing a story like his would be helpful. I understand though that everybody’s experience is different and that everybody receives things differently. I’m sorry, Jake if it was at all triggering for you. That was not my intention.
Your thoughts were mine exactly on sharing, Erin. I think it can be helpful to hear. Just wanted to make sure I didn’t overstep. And thanks for the other resources you shared.
Quinn