First it was Brad Pilon’s Eat Stop Eat. Every week you’d take 24 hours off from eating. You still ate every day, but there was a fast in there every week from say, dinner to dinner the following day. You could up the ante and do a couple fasts per week if you wanted.
Then it was Martin Berkhan’s Leangains. A few weeks ago I heard a completely innocent civilian mocking his personal trainer for telling him to eat all of his meals within 8 hours. It hit the mainstream folks, and I knew where that originated, as Martin and I were about even in popularity as bloggers through 2011 or so, when suddenly his “16/8 splits” idea took off fiercely.
Also popular was Ori Hofmekler’s Warrior Diet, which involved fasting for 20 hours per day–consuming all your calories in a 4-hour window.
For a while I was on a similar bandwagon with a strange health religion known as RBTI, which advocated eating only lowfat dairy and nonstarchy vegetables after 2pm each day. You couldn’t even drink water past that time. It was like being a Mogwai.
This led me to want to try eating just once per day for the first time, which I experimented with for a few months in 2012–fasting until I hit a buffet or something (where I could attempt to eat 3,000 calories or so in one sitting).
And now I see this “one meal a day” or OMAD going completely apeshit in the health fad world. It’s absolutely EVERYWHERE on the YouTubes.
*Spoiler Alert*
It works! Until it doesn’t. Like pretty much any diet.
But I’m always one to keep ahead of the trends in health and nutrition, so I’m coining the next fad right now. You heard it here first!
It’s called, “Fasting under controlled ketosis unlimited raspberries, mushrooms, entrails, turkey, and butter, only ingest Sunday/Monday.”?
That’s a long name, so I created a catchy acronym to help it set social media on fire (insert fire emoji and some 100’s and shit):
F.U.C.K.U.R.M.E.T.A.B.O.I.S.M.
FUCKURMETABOISM is, quite frankly, the perfect diet. It’s how we were meant to eat. It’s in our DNA. Telomere research has also confirmed that this diet leads to a 22% increase in lifespan in fruit flies. It has also been shown to maximize autophagy and leads to a 47% reduction in advanced glycation end products.
It’s got SCFA’s, MCT’s, RS2, K2, and buttloads of phytonutrients. Pretty much everything you need right there.
Poor satire aside, this trend of eating meals less and less frequently is pretty funny. I would not be the least bit surprised if a popular fad diet emerges in the coming years that advocates eating once every other day, once every three days, and, within a couple decades we might be lucky enough to make it all the way to OMAW (one meal a week).
And it will be the same old shit…
“I feel great! It’s so easy! I can eat whatever I want! I’ve lost weight! It’s so affordable! It’s so convenient! It’s so freeing not having to think about food all day! I’m not hungry! My energy levels and mental focus are AHH-MAY-ZING!”?
Yeah we know. We’ve all dieted before.
But this is what an amazing success story looks like after a couple years…
Awww, not so shiny is it? Unless you like gaining weight eating one miserable keto meal per day.
As always, you can try OMAD if you like. Or FUCKURMETABOISM. Or even OMAW. But I would personally recommend punching yourself in the genitals instead. It hurts, but it requires so little effort in comparison, has the same likelihood of reducing your body weight after a period of many years (very little), and won’t have any long-lasting adverse effects on your metabolism, self-esteem, social life, digestion, sexual function, or energy levels.
Okay, groin punching might have adverse effects on your sexual function, but only if you’re on steroids, therefore applying to only 94% of males under the age of 40.
Most importantly, groin punches won’t lead you to become an obnoxious loud-mouthed diet zealot posing shirtless on the internet, becoming a mini internet celebrity, and then gaining weight and living the life of a shamed, depressed, hermit with a litany of health problems afterward.
FIRST!(?)
Atta boy Carl!
I read your book Diet Recovery: Restoring Hormonal Health and have implemented your advice. I used to be on a No Plants Gaps style diet and will probably have to go back. I’m deathly allergic to gluten and react to absolutely everything. The carbs have been kicking my ass. I’m bloated to the point I look three years pregnant and to the point I can’t breathe. I have Hypothyroidism and diabetes yet I weigh 110lbs but I’m 34% body fat…. I don’t know what to do. I need help. Also to note, I did suffer from severe mold toxicity and I am still attempting to recover and detox from that. Any advice? I’m only NOT bloated and sick if I don’t eat or sip on homemade chicken stock. How can I be diabetic when I’ve eaten virtually no carbs? Still trying ti implement what you wrote about…. but it bloats me to the point to where I can hardly breathe or move and I get bad tachycardia when consuming beans or grains.
LOL.. this comment was on the video:
For 1 week, just 1 week, I am not asking you for more.
Attempt to
Do OMAD with only 800 calories a day.
No binge, no cheat.
This will kick start your motivation.
Make the CHOICE,
Take the CHANCE,
Feel the CHANGE,
for a better health.
If you want change then do it daringly.
Take CLEAR and BOLD CHANGES.
Are you man to take the challenge?
Is your love for your son stronger than your fear?
Dear god that’s a frightening comment.
Some places around the world are already on OMAW….no obesity there, lol.
It never ceases to amaze me as I look around Instagram, how many keto people are proud of the fact they haven’t eaten in 3 days. WTF? I make it right for them by eating for them — usually a big baked potato with all the fixins, followed by a bite -or several- of brownies.
Mogwai reference on point.
Right on Matt. Been there and done most of that. Learned what doesn’t work for sure.
Be nice to hear a real rebuttal to this way of eating inside of bad jokes
For starters, it’s a way of NOT eating, not a way of eating. :)
I found a new diet – laughing my ass off! (from reading your posts, Matt!)
but somehow, my ass always finds its way back….
Just like a diet!
Oh gosh. Now It goes further. I did a fasting diet in 2013-2014. It was amazing! I lost 43 pounds! And kept it off! For a year!
And then. I stayed with this diet for 6 more months, despite the fact that I was putting on sometimes 10 lbs in a month. So I shortened my window from 5 hours a day to 3, sometimes even 1 hour a day. I added hour long walks in 100 degree weather. I did 400 kettlebell swings a day. And still I gained. Now I hardly have a hunger sensation and eat maybe two meals a day, and I’m up 60lbs from my low 5 years ago. I thought I had found my lifelong eating plan, but now couldn’t buy weight loss. Thanks for getting the word out on this.
Thanks for the comment Stephanie. That is indeed the long-term result of dieting. The long-term result of not dieting isn’t anything spectacular either, but it’s better than that shit!
Anyone familiar with the snake diet? It’s sounds terrible. From what I gather you’re encouraged to fast as long as possible while drinking “snake juice”, which is a kind of electrolyte drink. It sounds so painful. It’s making it’s rounds in some Facebook groups I’m in.
The snake diet! That sounds so “cleansing!” And what a name! I gotta try that!
Great article. Did you mean to leave the “L“ out of the acronym?
I couldn’t think of an L. And “metaboism” has a couple of benefits:
1) When you say it out loud you sound like a child with a speech impediment, which is hiwawious!
2) It emphasizes the “ism,” and every proper diet religion should end with -ism.
Mawwiage. Mawwiage is wot bwings us togethuh tooday.
Mateboism really is that dweam within a dweam.
I love you Anna! Thank you so much for inserting Metaboism into an 80’s movie quote!
These diet fads are ridiculous. So are the “cleanses”. Eat enough to keep your BMR up and you have no issues hacking the daily double. Or more! Folks be gullible and lazy! They bullshit because they’re too lazy to research it.
Emily, I had 4 children. The first 2 no diet involved. I started gluten free with my 3rd due to him throwing up a lot. That lead to more dieting. I did lose 45 lbs in 2 weeks, though. Went from diet after diet. None lasting more than 2 months because they did not work. My 3rd ended up with eczema and we had Candida issues all around. On top of tons of other health issues. I would find chunks bit out of the butter. We went through 5 lbs of raisins in 2 weeks because that was the only sugar allowed in the house. We juices, we sprouted things. We were “Paleo” until I child number 4 was due in 3 weeks. I suddenly started craving things. I came across Matt’s first book, on a Paleo website, and decided to read it. I was desperate. We were sensitive to most anything edible. If we kept going, we would be able to drink water and eat ice cubes. Well, needless to say, we are not “dieting” anymore. I hate that phrase, by the way. I ended up gaining weight after giving birth, and in the hospital with pneumonia and PE. Child number 4 is the only child I was not able to lose the weight afterwards. And I know it is from dieting. My son who had eczema is now 7 and eczema free. We do not have food cravings and we are healthier. So, when you think about dieting to lose weight, just think about the weight you will gain when you stop. Sorry this was so long. I appreciate you Matt. You got my family out of the dieting rut.
Hope, thank you for sharing! It is very encouraging to hear a real story of another mother who struggled and found freedom. I’m glad you found your way out of the dieting trap. I want to model a neutral to positive relationship with food and body for my children. Thanks for spurring this on!
You’re welcome, Emily. We never changed diets for weight reasons. It was a rabbit hole for health. We kept adding to our food sensivity list. Foods that we ate regularly, we became sensitive to. I kept adjusting our diet to accomodate the sensitivies. It got tiring after 4 years. That is when I found Matt’s book. I was desperate to heal my family. And tired of finding things that don’t work. I am glad I found something that did. We now do the Bible diet. This has worked for us and it is nice.
Hilarious article!!! Thank you!
Needed this to keep me grounded. I’m 8 weeks post partum and really trying to commit to not jump on some restrict/ over exercise train. Though I wish I didn’t, I, admittedly, still have the hope that I’ll spontaneously lose some fat after breastfeeding for awhile, but I know that may not happen and I want to be ok if it doesn’t. My life is good right now with the body I have now. I know that. Thanks for the reminder that whatever perceived happiness I would get from a diet would be short lived.
Sheesh! It’s only been 8 weeks! You are very likely to experience spontaneous weight loss, but sometimes it can take a long while. It’s not until the 2nd year of breastfeeding that the fat content of your milk goes up significantly. You may not lose any fat until then.
Haha! Did my neurosis reveal itself in my post or what! Ok. Ok. Time.
After my first baby, I restricted and over exercised. It worked for awhile and I got all the typical compliments: ? You don’t even look like you had a baby! Etc? I hate that this is something people say/praise.
Of course, I gained weight when I wore myself out and couldn’t stop binge eating. I don’t want to go back there this time around. That said, my voracious breastfeeding appetite scares me at times and it is taking a lot of resolve to trust it.
Matt,
What would you recommend as far as exercise while breast feeding? I’m feeling discouraged because my temperature seems to have dropped again. I’m wondering if it may be my work outs in addition lack of sleep, stress of a new baby, energy demand of breast feeding,etc.
I find myself craving sugar hardcore at the end of the day despite eating 3 full satisfying meals. Would I do better to take a break from work outs for awhile in these early months of breastfeeding?
Emily, when you work out, do your temps get higher or lower?
When I started re-feeding, I was still working out 30-60 minutes 5-6 days per week. My temps would DROP when I worked out, from the 96’s to the 95’s (not even kidding, I’m surprised I’m still alive)and so I had to stop. This was so mentally difficult for me, but I’m glad I gave my body a break.
I recall reading years ago about what Chinese medicine says about women who have just given birth. I’m no expert, and I hope someone corrects me if I’m wrong, but in Chinese medicine, people who are sick are seen as either “hot” or “cold”. Women who have given birth are cold for three months. Family members attend to the WOMAN, not the baby, because the mom takes care of the baby but she needs others to take care of her to warm her up. If she doesn’t take that time, she will remain cold for much longer.
In our culture, women are considered “strong” and “resilient” for getting up and resuming normal life as soon as possible. We feel guilty for laying around and properly recovering when there’s so much to do! But if we try to resume normal life too soon, we often pay the price!
Sounds to me like you already know what you need to do, but would like some affirmation. Mama, it is ok to stop working out and take care of you. Go back to bed and be with your baby and don’t feel an ounce of guilt!
Ramen!!!
Sharonimo,
You’re right. My gut is telling me to give my body a break for awhile. Even if it doesn’t make my temp go up, I know it would be good for me. Thank you for the affirmation. I love that he Chinese have that custom. I wish our culture would take note.
Can I ask how long you took off working out and how long you refed? What improvements did you see when doing so? Did you begin working out again eventually?
Thanks again for your affirmation and encouragement!
Emily,
Although I had my kids back when the dinosaurs roamed the earth, I was committed to breast feeding. Back then I was thin, knew nothing about body temperature.
But I can tell you that when I exercised, or did too much physical activity, the baby would cry because there wasn’t enough milk. The most important thing you can do now is make feeding yourself and your baby the priority. And sleep when the baby sleeps. Your body is hungry and you need to eat – so eat! Then you’ll overflow with milk – AND the weight will come off if you don’t diet or over-exercise when you stop breast feeding.
Relax and let nature take over. Remember, binging comes from restriction. Enjoy your baby and this time when you HAVE to relax! LOL
Emily, I probably stopped working out for at least a year or more. I can’t tell you how tough that was psychologically because I exercising was such a huge part of my life for at least 7-8 years. I hate the gym, so I worked out from home. P90X, Insanity, every Jillian Michaels DVD, and lots more. After that break, I started going on enjoyable walks and hikes (if you’re on pavement, it’s walking, but once you hit dirt you’re hiking!). Then I added yoga back in, but again I had to do it from home because although yoga is an individual practice, my brain was still programmed for competition (because I compared my body to everyone else’s to try to feel good about myself). I also remembered how much I love to dance so I added that back in. Now, about 5 years after I started this journey, I have added in some Jillian Michaels but I don’t have the expectations I used to have. If she’s yelling at me that these workouts will make my body crazy insane sick amazing, I don’t even try to believe it because no exercise or health guru can make good on promises like that! AND, I ONLY DO 20 MINUTES. I’ve discovered that if I try to do any longer, I’m hating it, so it’s counterproductive because if you really hate it stress hormones will kick in. I exercise in ways that I enjoy. My hiking limit is about 4 miles, anything longer and I stop enjoying it.
Sorry, short story long….I probably re-fed for about the same amount of time I took off exercising, probably over a year, before I swung to the middle of the pendulum and started eating just intuitively what I wanted. I don’t eat a ton of sugar or starches or fats anymore, just what I want. I eat a cheeseburger when I want, I eat a salad when I want. I don’t stress over it.
My body temps went up, my hair stopped falling out, I wasn’t cold all the time (my husband laughs that I’m the one kicking the covers off in bed now in the middle of winter), I have sustained energy most of the day, and I enjoy life more overall. I never dropped the weight, but I stopped caring about that because I feel good! I started this journey of re-feeding because all of the sudden my weight started going up and my health started declining despite my “PERFECT WAPF EATING AND PERFECT EXERCISE REGIMEN”. Re-feeding made my weight go up even more, but brought me back to health. I’m 40lbs over when I started, but I am not about to risk my health again to attempt (and probably fail) to lose it.
I’ll leave you with this, in caps for emphasis…NOBODY THAT IS IMPORTANT IN MY LIFE LOVES ME ANY LESS BECAUSE I GAINED WEIGHT.I AM NOT ANY LESS SIGNIFICANT, VALUABLE, OR LOVABLE. Go have a good cry over that, because when I realized this truth, I sure did! You are far more valuable than the number on the scale, the stretch marks on your thighs and boobs, and the squish that has become your belly (assuming you have all these things after just having a baby!)
I started refeeding a year before getting pregnant and never dieted while pregnancy or after. I only gained 20 pounds during pregnancy and started losing weight in the fourth month, also breastfeeding. Suddenly all the weight was gone. I also was tempted to diet etc… but I noticed the effects immediately. Not that our journey has to be similar but just want to encourage you to trust and believe in you body. If it can make a human being it’s pretty awesome, don’t you think ;)
You win!! But where is the L?! LEEKS! LOVE#! LAUGHING COW CHEESE! LOL what is your whole take on this CARNIVORE thing? ala Shawn Baker (alias no longer practicing ortho surgeon)
I just posted about Shawn Baker on Facebook…
“Laughing my ass off today listening to Shawn Baker (a doctor who has been eating an all-meat diet for over a year) try to explain away the diabetes, high A1C, high BUN, low HDL, and low testosterone he has encountered avoiding all carbs. Yeah, that’s SO PUZZLING!!!”
That post is great. Being skilled in the art of verbal jujitsu, you can easily disarm others by using their own stupidity against them.
Speaking of stupidity, that Shawn Baker post made me think of Jimmy Moore.
As you know, Jimmy has ping-ponged back-and-forth between low-carb, fasting, and now (or, last I heard) ketogenic. He keeps ingesting MASSIVE amounts of fat and is completely stymied as to why his weight keeps increasing.
So much so, in fact, he has to change his narrative. He has some saying that: “It’s not about fat loss. It’s about health gain.”
But, of course, he’s not healthy.
His skyrocketing weight aside, he’s posted many blood tests that show numerous biomarkers going in the wrong (i.e. dangerous) direction. Even his own podcast guests — doctors whom he purports to respect — have encouraged him to dial-down the fad diets, but he refuses.
Despite all of this, he continues to co-author books and be invited to various conferences as, presumably, a health expert.
Truth really is stranger than fiction.
Jimmy is actually a fantastic representation of what happens when an extremely obese person tries to overcome that condition with various restricted diets. His story and timeline are completely on par with the norm, he’s just shockingly resilient in his ability to continue putting himself out there publicly and disseminate health information successfully. I have no condescending thoughts to share about him at all. In fact, I’m getting kind of tired of seeing various health gurus throw Jimmy under the bus to defend their own fad diet.
I truly feel sorry for Jimmy. I’m pretty convinced he really believes each dietary fad that comes along. That is, I don’t think he’s intentionally trying to scam anyone. If he were, it would be far easier for him to stay home and hide behind a blog or podcast and stay out of view.
Thankfully, aside from this blog coming to life every once-in-a-while, I’ve stayed-away from most “health” websites and deleted all my podcasts (except 180 Radio). So, I’m sorry to hear that Jimmy is being targeted by various health gurus to promote their own fad diets.
Finally, I apologize if my previous comments about Jimmy were out-of-line. While I don’t agree with the example he sets for his legions of followers (and, I think his wife’s health issues have stemmed from his bad advice), my previous comment may have been a bit harsh.
No apologies necessary Carl! It’s kind of crazy, but this blog used to be known for rather reckless smack talk. Now if anything, it’s more of a beacon of open-minded civil discourse. I even created a site about civil online communication recently, lol. Maybe I’ll show that to the 180D crowd someday and we can start a movement! (Raises fist)
Thanks for that understanding comment, Matt.
After a few Google searches, I found the website to which you alluded. I think that’s a noble and worthy goal. I hope you can get a lot of folks to take and honor the pledge.
I’ve naturally come to a similar place, as all the smack-talking gets really exhausting. And, it just perpetuates itself. It gets extremely adversarial. Like Joey Lott wrote: The only way to win the war is to stop fighting.
Also, getting older, I realize that I have no idea what others are going through. I could make a comment that might seem innocuous enough to me, but it might be the final straw that flips someone’s switch and causes them to harm themselves or others.
I’m a bit concerned about our society — both real and online. Maybe it’s just because the negative stuff gets the most attention, but many things seem to be unraveling.
Speaking of blasts from the past, remember Don Matesz? He was primal, then Vegan, and now he’s on the carnivore fad and he thinks plants are evil. Round and round on the carousel…
Haha. That’s hilarious about Don. Classic!
Where can I find the clip of Shawn Baker talking about his blood work?
Matt, if you think Don Matesz is hilarious check out his wife Tracy. She was the one who made Don go Vegan. I think she even wrote a Vegan “Bible” called the Garden Of Eating. Now she has YouTube vids extolling the virtues of a Carnivore Diet as something akin to being a Spirit Animal..LMAO!!!
A an awesome book title for a book about trying to get people to quit veganism would be, Eat Your Spirit Animal.
Dude, I love how vegans can’t just stop eating vegan, they have to immediately jump to low-carb RAW MEAT! https://www.youtube.com/user/sv3rige
Seriously, he has all those diseases?
Poop
Oh boy, POOP is one of my FAVORITE responses to following Matt’s ideas.
Especially after being constipated for 30 years & getting colon cancer.
Now …..oh my stars…I am so regular, great texture, smooth moves these days. I feel better and lighter every day!
Matt Stone: Plungin’ the ladies since 2006.
While punching oneself in the genitals is an appealing thought, it’s secondary to your other idea to be “…bludgeoned in the taint with a Garden Weasel.” I still use that comedy nugget.
Anyway, I feel a lot of empathy for the guy in the above video, as I do for anyone pursuing a diet. His self-esteem will likely (and, wrongly) rise-and-fall, in accordance with the needle on the scale.
Your comment that “It works! Until it doesn’t.” reminds me of my own stupid diet (mis)adventures and banging the gong of a few different dietary religions. Now, as an elder statesman in the Church of Dietary Atheism, I try to counsel new sheep in the flock, but people love their restrictive commandments.
Unfortunately, it seems we must all walk this path and find-out for ourselves and truly “get it.”
…
You made one post in March and now one in April. Perhaps we’ll see one in May? One Post A Month (OPAM)?
OPAM! That sounds doable. I’ll try!
My thoughts exactly.
I’ve been thinking a lot about going back to dieting and crazy exercising to lose some of my belly squish (vanity weight really) and then thought, why?
I like to eat.
I like to eat mostly real food. I don’t crave processed junk, but I do enjoy homemade cookies and pancakes when I want.
I like to exercise no more than 20 minutes at a time a few days per week. I like to go on hikes when I want to as well.
I like to prioritize my family, my business, and my church ministry, spending time on those things rather than obsessively try (and fail) to lose weight.
My life is joyful and my self esteem full, because I’m doing what I like, not because of the needle on the scale.
I really feel bad for this guy. As an elder statesman in the Church of Dietary Atheism, will you join me in praying for this guy? And who do we pray to? ;)
All prayers should be directly to Matt Stonie. He’s our spiritual leader.
WWMSD? ;)
Sharonimo wrote:
“I like to eat.
I like to eat mostly real food. I don’t crave processed junk, but I do enjoy homemade cookies and pancakes when I want.
I like to exercise no more than 20 minutes at a time a few days per week. I like to go on hikes when I want to as well.
I like to prioritize my family, my business, and my church ministry, spending time on those things rather than obsessively try (and fail) to lose weight.
My life is joyful and my self esteem full, because I’m doing what I like, not because of the needle on the scale.”
Sharonimo,
You’re doing it right! That’s sounds like a great place to be! I’m giving you a virtual High-Five!
And, I’ll join you in praying for the gentleman in the video.
Our Matt Stonie which art in IHOP, Hallowed be thy name.
Thy order come, Thy eating be done on Earth, as it is in Heaven.
Give us this day more daily bread.
And forgive us our dieting, as we forgive our low-carb gurus.
And lead us not into restriction, but deliver us from evil: For pancakes are the kingdom, and the power, and the glory, for ever. Amen.
Yea, though I walk through the valley of the shadow of Keto-ites,
I shall fear no pancake,
For metabowism is with me.
Thy flour and thy sugar, they comfort me.
IHOP staff preparest a table before me
In the presence of crazed dieters.
They anointeth my pancakes with syrup.
My plate overflows.
Surely, the comfort & calories will follow me for the rest of the morning,
And I will dwell in the house of Carbs forever.
Wow, turtlegurl! That is epic!
Thy brilliance hath rendered me silent.
Matt Bless You!
And may Matt bless you, my son ;)
Your prayer inspired me. Just trying to add a little sumpin’ to this Fucking Awesome Blog (FAB).
I think I’m developing a crush on you, turtlegurl. In a strictly platonic, anonymous, non-creepy, blog-post-comment-appreciating type of way. :-)
I love the prayer!!!
I am posting it on my bathroom mirror along with WWMSD!
As a daily reminder to honor my commitment to Never Diet Again….after 40 years of continuous dieting!
Amen
It’s been done before, so I feel like I’m plagiarizing a bit, but any 180D-related prayer really should be concluded with Ramen, not Amen.
Matt — you say Ramen, I say Raw Men ;)
Love your humor. I LOL through the whole article. Thanks for that. Ever think of doing stand-up?? You sure have the material–love the acronym—priceless. Sad to admit.I’ve done all the diets mentioned above except for the FUCKURMETABOISM- ha ha. In my Pre-Matt days, I no doubt would have given that one a try as well–ha.
Why do stand up comedy when I can write funny stuff lying down? :)
Hi Matt. Thanks for reminding us! Since Eating The Food I gained some weight that I am at times tempted to want to lose. However I do want to keep my muscles, boobs, energy and uninterrupted night’s sleep. Or as Isabel Foxen Duke puts it so sharply: my sanity. I am forever grateful to have learned here that nothing is as relaxing as a good meal incorporating every ingredient I desire and exactly when and as often as I like. Anyone who is still struggling with anxiety should get desperate enough to try this and then never go back. So again, thank you for reminding us!
Probably you know this guy Blake Horton who eats 4000 on one metal daily. Hes pretty fit. He uploads almost daily his super meals and are mostly junk foods: pizzas, tacos, burritos…
What do you think in terms of metabolism? Maybe hes doing IF, but hes on a calorie surplus.
There’s absolutely nothing abnormal about being young, doing hard training, and being lean eating a high-calorie diet. It’s not some big secret, it’s just NORMAL. And I’m sure he could eat more often and still be in similar shape.
https://www.joe.co.uk/fitness-health/the-7000-calorie-diet-that-got-tarzan-star-ripped-71276
I still think we should be fasting between 8 to 12h per day… when we sleep. So 12h eating window, 12h no eating to let the digestive system “rest” and get that migrating motor complex moving. At least I know I feel way better (and my temperature has risen since doing this) by letting at least 12h between the end of my dinner and the beginning my breakfast, while of course eating lots of calorie/nutrient dense foods during the day. And it’s not too hard since I’m asleep most of the fast duration : D!
Nothing wrong with 12 hours. That’s just normal.
I think I’ll start a new fad diet called the 12-12-3 diet. It’s revolutionary. You eat 12 hours a day and fast 12 hours and eat three complete meals throughout the day!
HAHA
Aha : D. I was saying this because many people have barely 6 to 8 hours of fast during the night because of snacking, eating too late, etc, and I think that might be too little for some. But people always need to go to some extremes, like this 8 hours eating window. Eating all of our caloric needs in 8 hours ? Maybe for those with a great digestion and metabolism, but for others with weak health, their stomach’s surely gonna need these 16 hours of rest after this workout : D
I like that one. Where did “going on a diet” come from? I hate this phrase as well as ” I cheated on my diet.” A diet is what you eat. You can’t cheat on that. If you had ice cream when on a sugar or dairy free diet, you just changed your diet. You did not cheat.
Temperature fluctuation could be an iodine deficiency. It’s very common. I take 2 drops a day. Might work for you.
Hey Matt! Use to always be on your 180D blog back in the day. I have been training with Chief (remember him?). Anyway I have been one meal a day for about a year…no issues BUT I am not weighing myself or tracking any health metrics…not even exercising. I eat large meals obviously, and mostly clean except for Saturdays when I throw down big. I have not had any regrets or cravings which is good.
Will I stick with it? So far it’s been something that I don’t think about as it’s just been natural for me. I do, however, hate the occasional avoidance of lunch for special events, etc. Like anything else the longer you do it – and the deeper you are in – the less flexible you tend to get.
A “clean” dinner for me might be:
1. 5 cheeseburgers
2. 1 lb of Kidney Beans
3. 5-6 slices of cheese
4. Pumpkin seeds
5. Dried fruit
6. Rice or corn or something else
A “anything goes” night might be like 6,000 calories of Chinese food ha.
I have been wondering whatever happened to Chief. Does he still have a blog?
That he does…last seen around 1/28/17…
http://www.chiefrok.com/blog/
CHIEF! Is he blogging these days? Where does he hang his Internet shingle?
Chief is MIA at the moment…well been about a year ha. Hoping he reappears soon!
Wasn’t Chief going to release the secret to eating at some point? And then I think it never happened. Would love to hear a Chief update.
I reached out to him will see if he responds!
Hey big John! Thanks for the update on Chief. That’s cool he’s still out there. I too was eating as much as I could on my one meal a day and not gaining any weight (losing a little), and I wasn’t particularly hungry, but I did struggle with sleep, feeling really tired and lethargic and bloated with heartburn and stuff for several hours after each daily feast, having bad breath deep into the fast, and I did indeed gain some fat when I got sick of doing it and stopped.
Pleasure to be back Matt! Yeah Chief is out there somewhere unless he finally messed with the wrong Bigfoot ha.
Yeah I should note I did IF once before and dropped out and put a lot of weight back. Back then I was really deep in a paleo phase and never had a cheat day…so I was eating once a day…not nearly enough calories…and never any evil bad foods to stave off cravings.
It’s not for everyone that for sure and honestly I am curious how long I can make it.
love your posts.
Hi Natalie, Fancy seeing you here. I believe we did Greg’s Health unit together. Does being here mean you’ve given up on keto? I personally think there is no one solution that fits all. There’s not even one solution that fits just one person all the time. You need to continually adjust. Nothing influences weight more than stress levels, and the diet needs to be adjusted accordingly. I alternate keto and the “I-just-don’t-care-diet” (LOL) depending on what’s going on in my life (stress levels, cognitive demand, exercise). Anyways it would be lovely to hear from you. Cheers, Stef
Matt,
What’s your take on fasting and testosterone? From what I have read casually it seems that IF is suppose to increase it. Do you see the opposite? Thanks.
I don’t know. I would think IF would be more likely to lower testosterone, especially if it’s inducing weight loss.
Even without losing weight, fasting and especiall one meal a day, completely kills my libido!
Go get ’em!
Hey Matt,
I am so inspired by your writing, have followed you for a couple years and have “eaten up” pretty much everything you have “dished out” on all these diet mentality mishaps. But here I am now…a couple years later and have been intermittent fasting for 3 months, eating ketogenic diet for 44 days and working towards OMAD the past week. Now, please bare with me. The ketogenic diet mixed with IF helped me to drop 12 pounds and 54 points off of cholesterol the first month(it was 329). I have been tired of being 40 pounds overweight and also have Hashimotos Thyroiditis and Menieres Disease. I’m a chronic low temperature gal, hair loss, low libido blah blah blah. Maybe I have gotten duped. I am apart of keto, IF and OMAD groups and of course, MOST people are posting of their fabulous transformation stories and their sustained weight loss of even up to 2 years. As I write this, I am freezing(like I have been pretty much every day), extremely hungry(been fasting so far for 15.5 hours) and frustrated that this has been the only thing that had helped me lose this much weight in a short time frame. When trying the rest and refeed methods with hundreds of grams of carbs, I gained like 25 pounds which was scary. But I pooped better so thumbs up there. I miss carbs so much….and not even junky, battered and fried carbs….oatmeal, rice, potatoes, blueberries. I cant do dairy. I get sick sick sick with all kinds of unpleasant stomach and scalp issues. GRRRRR!!!! Can I maybe have a few words of wisdom to help me get a renewed mindset? Please be kind. We all make mistakes? Hopefully…
That’s a tough spot to climb out of. At the very least you can start cycling carbs by eating low-fat carb meals of mostly fruit and starches once a day or something.
Angela,
You are worsening your Hashimoto’s with the way you are eating. Your body is stressed both with the way you’re eating, and your negative mindset about your appearance.
If you stay the course, it’s just going to continue downhill. Would you rather be bald, thin and cold (the thin doesn’t last anyway) or warm and heavier?
Are you enjoying your life eating this way and having an obsessive fixation on what you’re eating, when you’re eating and how you look?
Angela, you are so much more important as a human being than your temporary appearance, which will change anyway if you are lucky enough to have a long life.
Start enjoying your food and your life. Manage the stress… Re-read Matt’s books…
I’m definitely not enjoying freezing or losing hair…or the constant thinking about food, what to eat, what not to eat, am I getting all the macros. Its serious work. Really, I just want to feel better inside and it seems like nothing is really working. I have read from numerous people in numerous places that they are putting their Hashimoto antibodies into remission with these various ways of eating. So discouraging. But yes, I would rather not be constipated and freezing at the “right weight”. I would much rather be warm and toasty with a little extra to love. I will be re-reading Eat for Heat tonight. Thank you for your words.
Have you read Izabella Weisz’ stuff on Hashimoto’s? Sounds very logical. She’s done some movies, too.
Angela, first I want to remind you that EVERY BODY IS DIFFERENT, AND JUST BECAUSE CERTAIN DIETS WORK FOR SOME PEOPLE SOME OF THE TIME DOESN’T MEAN IT WILL WORK FOR THEM THEIR ENTIRE LIVES OR THAT IT WILL WORK FOR YOU. Caps for emphasis, not to be mean!
I don’t know if this is bad advise, but I would advise to toss the scale. You know how to eat in a way that makes you feel better. Maybe not binge eat carbs, but slowly add them back in, and see how you feel. What kind of gentle exercise do you enjoy? Do that, but don’t overdo it. And look into getting your minerals tested. I did it with Dr. Garrett Smith a few years ago and it changed my life! Magnesium baby! That could be the missing piece. Well, that and re-feeding myself. It just sounds like your torturing yourself to lose the weight. I’m 40lbs over what I’d like to be too, but I’d rather be a size 12 and happy with energy and hair on my head and WARM than a size 4, cold, and full of anxiety like I used to be.
Side note: I’m a former WAPF chapter leader/former GAPS/keto proponent/former food and exercise obsesser.
Thank you for your words. I bought magnesium/calcium/potassium powder that I have been taking. I have pretty bad constipation which has led to a TMI— thrombosed hemorrhoid. I am going to start carb cycling or just bringing the carbs back in. Thank you again.
I also want to share that I had to dive deep into WHY I wanted to be thin. Why do any of us want to be thin? Honestly, it has little to do with health and far more to do with self worth. Personally, I had to realize that my self worth comes from what God says about me, not what I or others think about me. Don’t mean to sound preachy or religious,just my personal journey ;)
I also had to switch focus. I decided that I wanted to give up wanting the reputation of being the thin, pretty, young girl and switch it to have a reputation as a woman who loves and cares for those around her. So my focus has completely changed to obsession about food (again, I was a WAPF chapter leader!) to helping women in my community who struggle with poverty, abuse, and/or addiction. I would MUCH RATHER prioritize my life loving and helping people than spend hours in the gym, in the kitchen, and doing online research. My life is far more fulfilling! If you think about it, our obsession with dieting is self focused. I personally don’t know anyone who I would say are truly happy who are self focused. The people that I have met that are truly happy are those with a mission to make the world a better place; they are OTHER centered rather than self centered. Personally, there’s no worse feeling I get than when I’m dieting, exercising, and constantly weighing myself. But there’s no greater feeling I get than when I am helping and serving others! Well, that and eating brownies with milk too ;)
Oh gosh, Sharonimo, I love this reply. Knowing who I am in God is also my key to self worth, and something I so struggle with. And yes, the easiest way to put problems in perspective is to be others focused. Thanks for your words of wisdom!
Angela, I have suffered with severe and disabling chronic fatigue for over 40 years, along with very low thyroid. I’ve tried every way of eating, and have been on all sorts of eating and supplement regimes. After much trial and error I find that a low carb diet helps me find at least some energy but, like you, I suffered with constipation. I recently starting making the ‘PK bread’ recommended by Dr Sarah Myhill it’s easy to make, tastes OK and completely got rid of the constipation. It might help. (Don’t usually recommend someone else’s stuff on a person’s website, seems a bit rude, sorry Matt ? but you appear to be struggling Angela so thought I’d break my own rule ;)
Hi Sharon I’m confused. What’s wrong with a size 12? That’s biologically perfectly healthy. Why would you even think about wanting to be a size 4? It is definitely not healthy. That’s underweight. BTW, size 16 is the current US average.
Stef, in my dysfunctional thinking that I had to be thin in order to be ok, it wasn’t ok to be a size 12. So no, there’s nothing wrong with that for me as that IS my healthy weight.
But we also have to understand that for some women, a size 4 is their healthy weight. My sister is a 4 and eats about the same as I do and exercises about the same as I do (a lot of walking and hiking and some weights, nothing crazy). Genetically, she got my mom’s side, with lots of tall, thin women. I got my dad’s side, short, wide Italians (my dad has the body shape of Danny DeVito, just like his mother who I look exactly like!)
If suddenly my sister packed on weight and became a size 12, then there would be something wrong and she’d have to look into that. Likewise, if I suddenly dropped to a size 4 I’d have to look into that!
Angela,
Make sure you take a silica supplement to help your body absorb the calcium. Without silica, those minerals do not stick to your bones. Also, make sure you up your sodium, too.
You may be deficient in iodine, it’s very common. I do 2 drops a day and it stabilized my temp.
Insert beware of simple traditional sustainable common sense eating sign
Your Eat for Heat book has saved my life and my fascia. I would love to talk “warm” fascia with you, if that’s something you are interested in. That’s why having a higher temperature fixes everything, because healthy fascia fixes everything, and fascia likes to be warm.
re: warm fascia – would massage create warm fascia?
yes, but only temporarily and superficially
“Warm fascia” definitely sounds like an interesting conversation to be had. Give me more details!
Fascia is the current frontier of the body, the thing everyone is just figuring out. We used to say it was like that slimy covering on a chicken breast, but that is not true. Fascia starts as bone, then it changes form and becomes ligaments and tendons and everything in between bone and skin, and then it changes form again and becomes skin. It’s also what makes up all organs. One book I read (I forget which, I’m sorry, probably Fascia: The Tensional Network of the Human Body) said that “someone said” Fascia is everything except the open space inside the blood vessels and the intestines. Basically, your fascia is your entire body. I am a long term fascia enthusiast (because I used to have fibromyalgia) and I’ve done YEARS of yoga (and many other things) to try to repair mine. I implemented the advice of Eat for Heat and have had some pretty miraculous fascia changes in this newly warm body. My hair is growing in again, my eyelashes are longer, my teeth are moving back inline and my jaw seems to be widening. My feet are changing. My skin is no longer dry. I have a keloid that is disappearing. Basically, even the people who are spearheading the fascia movement do not realize what kind of results they could get with a warm person. …. Ask Ashley Black (fascia blaster). She knows, but even she doesn’t realize you can heat a person from the inside out.
The use of fascial terminology is controversial. Call it what you wish; better blood supply always makes things more supple, warmer, and heal faster etc..
Myofascial pain syndrome is similar to fibromyalgia, and I struggle with it. I believe some people have higher propensities for muscular dynsfunction, “adhesions”, trigger points and what not. Probably gene related like the MTHFR mutation.
It all started when I started getting heartburn at end of 2014, didnt know why (i learned a lot, dgl and limonene are the shit), drove myself crazy experimenting, lost weight and worked out despite not feeling good cuz i was addicted. I even emailed Matt out of desperation. It makes you feel like youre in a straight jacket. Terrible life changer. Trigger point workbook with clair and amber davies, save yourself from myofascial pain syndrome by paul ingraham, and some other people like Johnathan Kuttner has seriously invaluable information for people struggling with pain they cant figure out. Im way better now but i am still trying to figure stuff out…Heartburn was multifaceted in my opinion. Tense abdominals, possible minor hitial hernia, maaybe candida in my small intestine but not sure, much better now. Tip, dont over eat chocolate it destroys your throat lol.
All these years of reading about what foods are good and bad and I am still confused..I want to eat whatever I want and keep my metabolism high but i get like yeast issues in the winter sometimes and eczema too. I feel beyond repair sometimes. No appendix, been nuked with antibiotics throughout my life, it makes me want to pull out my insides and scrub them with a brush physically cuz i think i have freakin biolfilms that wont freakin leave me alone. A long time ago I rrarfed and did it too dirty. I gained weight but got my temps real toasty. I could eat anything (defeated lactose intolerance for example) and i was having good bowel movements. Well, when i try it now, my guts dont freakin move properly like theyre paralyzed. Its like yeast or methanogenic archaea in my gut wont freakin let me eat like I want. Dr Garrett Smith is against freakin potatoes. Unless im mistaking his website for another Doctor named the same.
I am currently eating as much as I can but took out a lot of potential allergens just to see if they make my muscles worse. Taking things out of my diet is against my instincts but I am simply trying to get better and figure out what makes me feel shitty vs what doesnt. This is extremely condensed. I think I am on the right path though. I am half to blame. I overdo everything and surely have screwed myself up.. Just felt like letting that all out.. Keep blogging Matt. Glad to read your material as always.
Thanks Bob Dean!
So I read Eat for Heat and implemented to the best of my ability but can’t get my thyroid happy or my temp up at all. Do you still recommend the thoughts in that book and have any other suggestions? On thyroid meds (natural) and eating nutrient dense paleo mostly due to digestive issues. Thanks!
I’m surprised your temp hasn’t come up at all. That’s pretty rare. But that’s hard to do on nutrient dense Paleo food. I imagine that’s probably what’s holding you back, in large part.
So suggestions on what to add? I eat plenty of fat and carbs and protein. My basal temp sits around 96.3.
I’ve been diagnosed with Hashimoto’s and read it all- I guess for many with Hashimoto’s, being gluten free has helped. It did nothing for me (after a year)… So you have to self-test, IMO. I certainly would not remove so many foods all at once! Do one at a time to see if it has an impact – and what change are you looking for: losing weight OR feeling well?
I think that many of the food insensitivities improve when your body is warm enough to digest properly!
Even now, it takes a lot of food to move my temp up in the morning – in the afternoon and night I’m warm from the food I eat. I have to eat more frequent meals to get my temps up – and it has not increased my weight. But I’m feeling much better. I had chronic back and hip pain which is much better (despite my addiction to tennis). (Thankfully my knees have gotten better from stem cell treatment.)
Sharonimo – I love and 1,000% agree with what you said…. would appreciate if you might consider being interviewed for my next book…..
Please message me-
Jen- have you been tested for Hashimoto’s and hypothyroid? You may need thyroid meds… and even with that, my temps have only slowly risen (I have Hashimoto’s)
and Stef- Isabel Weiscz’s book has the MOST restricted diet plan I’ve ever seen, other than maybe just eating 1 food a day. I don’t know how any human could stay on that kind of eating plan!
And all: Do NOT take magnesium oxide – get malate, glycinate or another form. Citrate will make you have loose stools if you go too high, but may not help with other magnesium related issues. Malate and gylcinate do not to that-
Jen, I would increase your bread and sodium. If you are not sleeping, try taking a good magnesium supplement. Magnesium is a natural muscle relaxer. It helps me sleep. I can tell when I don’t take it. I also get gas cramps if I don’t take it. That and vitamin C. I take a lot of that daily.
Fat and Salt are my “body heaters”.
I’m mostly Scandinavian, so I come from a fatty, salty ancestry. :)
If I feel cold, I grab some yummy hard aged cheese… with or without crackers.
I also get cold when I drink too much water.
I am SOOOOOO Grateful for “Eat 4 Heat”!!!!
I was coming off a medifast diet when I found it (1200 cal/day of powdered soy protein meals)… and it took the SECOND bout of pneumonia to finally kick my butt off the diet wagon.
I was sick of forcing myself to drink water all day. I am so much happier – and warmer – drinking only what my body asks for.
I plotted my temperature on a chart every day for a few months: 1st thing in the morning, before/after each meal and just before going to bed. I found stopping the excessive water consumption and adding in fat and salt had a near immediate shift in temperatures. For the first time in 30 years I could sit still without getting cold… even in high school, I’d get cold sitting still in 95F summers… no more!
I went from low 97’s to mid/high 98’s… and 4.5 years later, I’m STILL warm… with fewer colds and no more allergies! Maybe with a few more added pounds, but, nothing that stops me from living my life and having fun.
Thank you Matt!
Wow Tina! Glad I could help. I’d be a rock star in Scandinavia, lol.
I tried the meal timing thing. It seemed to help me lose a little weight, then stalled. The usual. I did a Matt Stonesque refeed for a month and now I’m back on the diet that helped me lose 40 lbs last year (as described on FB). Just week 1 though.
When I am hungry I eat. I think about what I really want, listen to my body and I eat it. so far it’s been working great ????
I feel like you have made a dent in the health/weightloss/nutrition world. I see your name dropped a lot. But ya it’s sad what is out there.
Maybe start an Instagram account?
Hey Matt and 180 crowd! I played with all the if protocols for about 2 years (eatstopeat, leangains, warrior, etc) before my thyroid reminded me that food was in fact a good thing. It works until it doesn’t for sure! During that time I did not track calories, which was stupid on my part, but I estimate it was about 1500-2500 a day. Now I have been tracking calories and am in the range of 3500-4000 a day and weight is stable around 154 at 5?11?. Food choices are whole food with pizza, ice cream, and cookies thrown into the mix on occasion. My TSH was high after I stopped IFing so the doc put me on levothyroxine. Free t3 and free t4 were and are normal and no thyroid antibodies present. Around the same time I stopped ifing, drinking alcohol, and I moved back to a paleo template and got the first gout attack I have ever had. So moving to today I’m still battling high tsh and uric acid with a more normal eating pattern. The gout episode came on after a few months of gelatin supplementation and I have read that glycine can be converted into uric acid, so I’m wondering if that could have contributed to it. How do you all feel about the glycine supplementation these days? Any and all ideas are welcome!
No major thoughts on glycine, but hopefully you’ll lure Dr. Brind in (and his haters) for a lively discussion on the topic, lol.
But just eating a lot of meat can cause gout. I’ll never forget back in 2007 when 180D was just a lil’ baby, I was working on a raw milk farm. The dairy farmer had a heart attack, and I was certainly shocked. My fantasies of superhuman WAPF-induced health took a big blow from that. He was in his 50’s.
It was mild and he survived, but afterward was really lost about what he should do. He asked me what I thought and I told him that he should really think about reducing his carbohydrate intake. Not to extremes, but cutting out honey and bread and reducing his normal starch portions by half.
Within a couple weeks he had terrible gout from it. My fantasies of low-carb superhumanism took a blow from that as well!
It was that same dairy that I got extremely ill from Campylobacter from raw milk. There was a big outbreak among the members of the “milk share” or whatever.
Basically, everything I had been told by WAPF and low-carbers exploded like a bursting sphincter of bullshit from that experience!
Being a quick learner, I of course dropped my carbs even lower and kept at it for a couple more years! And threw in an absolutely miserable raw milk fast to go with it! hahaha
I’m pretty sure that is where my then 1.5 year old got campylobacter from(that was 6 years ago). I had given him part of a smoothie I made with raw milk. My FIL brought me some from an Amish farm where he went to buy his pig feed. I was only getting the raw milk infrequently, and stopped altogether after that.
Ah, the raw milk diet of Bernarr McFadden, those were the days huh Matt? Although I think you had more fun testing people’s pee than drinking raw milk lol
Matt — your sanity, humor, and openness to all types of input from us peeps on 180D is always a breath of fresh air. You rock!
And this site is F.A.B.U.L.O.U.S.
(Fucking Awesome Blog Under Leadership Of Uncommon Stone)
Matt are you still hunting for the unicorn or is that over? It all works until the body fights back, so maybe the key is sneaking around the body’s defenses?
That’s why bariatric surgery works, because the body doesn’t fight back somehow (they’re trying to figure out why). Just kicking around ideas. There’s gotta be a way. ????
Not much unicorn hunting lately.
As far as “there’s gotta be a way,” I’m not convinced. If there is, the scientific community sure hasn’t found it. Not without permanent major reductions in resting energy metabolism beyond what is expected from loss of fat and muscle (and the problems that come with it) and a constant fight against weight regain.
Hi Matt, fan of your blog and especially the diet recovery books.
Regarding the one way to weight-loss that is not damaging to metabolism and does not lead to a constant fight against weight regain – how about the findings from the Minnesota Starvation Study? I know you have written about it before on the blog, but I think its findings are actually more applicable to overweight people than standard diet adherents think (i.e., those who believe in limiting food intake to lose weight, whether by cutting calories, or intermittent fasting, or cutting out certain macros). If obesity is often a result of restricting food intake, as the body over-compensates to store fat in anticipation of further famines (what diets effectively signal), then starvation mode is way more common than we think. I think you have even written on this blog that obesity is starvation, as counter-intuitive as it sounds. But we know that the participants in the Starvation Study actually lost weight eventually, after eating at a great surplus to their supposed BMR. Critically, though, this had to be done for a longer time than modern people would like, and importantly, had to be done consistently, and probably within a stress-free environment, where one could eat as much as one wanted without fear of ostracization. I also think of Billy Craig’s 6000 calorie experiment, where he said he actually lost weight eating that much everyday. So my thought is that maybe starvation, or energy-deficiency, as Gwenyth Olwyn calls it, is probably ubiquitous in our time, due to unprecedented levels of chronic stress, under-eating, ‘intermittent’ fasting (skipping lunch because of life busy-ness), and significantly, the moralizing and politicizing of ‘fat’. So perhaps in times of old, people had no hangups about temporarily getting fat as they ate more for their body to recover from a period of famine. But just as the Starvation Study participants did, they eventually lost that weight naturally, without caloric restricting, as their body recovered from the stress of energy-deficiency. Curious about your thoughts on this.
Therefore, it just may be that the amount of calories to truly overcome a long-term energy deficiency is way more than people would allow themselves to eat, because of inhibiting ideas of ‘gluttony’, ‘laziness’, ‘getting too fat’. But it may be the only way for the body to definitively receive the signal that famine/starvation is finally over, and that the body can now go about shedding the excess weight.
Excellent writing, inquiring mind.
Thank you, Buck. All my ideas on this topic have been influenced by Matt Stone, Ray Peat, and Gwyneth Olwyn.
@ Inquiring Mind: I’ve been refeeding for almost 5 years now, four to almost six thousand calories on some days, and haven’t lost anything. As Matt said, the unicorn unfortunately appears for only the chosen few.
As for Billy Craig, I think what happened to him (if it even did happen…) was just a bout of hyperthyroidism. Either way he said he would write a book like 10 years ago and I don’t think it’s coming. Judging from his blogging it was gonna be some Weston A. Price bullshit anyways.
I’m thinking of ending my refeed and just eat my TDEE, no deficit or banned foods, and we’ll see what happens.
P.S. your idea reminded me of animals bingeing in the summer to fatten up for the winter. Indeed some have said humans may have done the same.
T.S. Wiley wrote a whole book proposing that the entire obesity epidemic can be chalked up to the “fattening in late summer” effect, triggered by artificial light exposure that made our bodies think we were forever living in an endless summer. Was an interesting read, although most have written the book off as poppycock, which probably means it’s very accurate!
Matt, do you think that the daylight savings would have anything to do with it? Is there a connection with states that implement it and weight gain? Changing the time like that might have a hand in it.
I don’t think so.
Skeptic, I lost 40lbs down to ideal weight eating a surplus of calories just like Billy Craig did. The key was zero fat. Now I eat whatever and my bf set point stays were it is.
Hey Zach, I know you’ve had awesome results. Last time we talked diet specifics you were eating mostly fruit and skim milk. What else would you advise someone to eat if attempting to toy around with a very low fat overfeed attempt to lower weight set point?
Also, you should consider calling yourself Dairyianrider :)
Hey Matt, I really like rice and rice noodles for adding bulk and calories to a zero fat diet. I also don’t shy away from grains and wheat noodles are good as well. Like you mentioned, I did my nonfat stint as a vegetarian but I think adding a serving or two of very trimmed steak or chicken/turkey might be cool, maybe some lean fish like tuna. Really though a zero fat diet is just not very fun and it’ll require a bit of mental toughness. I’d recommend potatoes but they are inedible without fat imo.
@ Matt: there’s definitely something there. I need to read Wiley. It could also be a food reward thing: if the body encounters a high reward food, as happens in late summer, it ups hunger and setpoint to take advantage of this jackpot of calories and store them up for later.
@Zach: that’s interesting, I wonder how it worked. How did you feel during? We’re you hungry every two hours? How high was the surplus and did you make sure by counting calories?
Yes, I agree completely. It’s logical, and it indeed works for some. But it still remains elusive to most. Much more needs to be unlocked to be able to access the mythical “metabolic zone.”
Perhaps you can you help me understand something, Matt.
As a kid — like age 12 and younger — I ate anything and everything. I don’t recall when I first heard the idea of “dieting,” but it was many years later.
Certainly, neither of my parents restricted anything, either! They ate (and, unfortunately, to their demise, drank and smoked) to excess.
All three of us were overweight. Now, with my parents’ drinking, smoking, and health issues, perhaps it’s not a mystery they were overweight.
But, for me, as a kid who was active (raised on a farm, doing manual labor, baling hay, riding my bicycle and motorcycles, climbing trees, playing football, basketball, frisbee, etc.) and not restricting food, any guesses as to what might cause overweight in someone with no stress, no food restriction, and, at the time, good sleep?
It seems that food restriction isn’t always the culprit.
While I realize I’ll never know the answer for 100% sure, it’s an interesting thought to me and I would welcome any of your musings on the matter.
To be clear, I don’t think food restriction is the cause of overweight. At all. I think there are several culprits. See my Why We Get Fat post (or maybe it was How We Get Fat?).
The problem is that when a person has gained excess body fat, they then try restricting food intake and attempting intentional calorie deficits. This makes the root problem worse, and makes set point rise.
The supposed “medicine” is making the problem worse. Much worse. That’s what I try to bring awareness to.
Ah, okay, got it! I was making an ASSumption, based on what I thought I understood.
I just found the post to which you alluded and will commence reading.
How We Get Fat
http://180degreehealth.com/how-we-get-fat
Thank you, Mr. Flogging.
I guess the biggest benefit of losing fat in the “metabolic zone” is about reducing the fat stores exclusively, while maintaining all of the lean masses. Even a professional body builder seems to lose some bits of muscle masses (and maybe some organ and bone masses too, lol) during the cutting phase, so it’s definitely a much safer path if you can achieve it. I occasionally try to explain metabolic zone to others, but yeah they still stick with the classic calories in calories out.
Speaking of fasting, recently I heard some random dude talking about it to his partner in the street. He even boasted he avoids carbs at night on top of skipping a meal. Like you said, this is literally going apeshit Matt!
Hey Juan,
Yes, the organs are much more metabolically active than the skeletal muscles, fat tissue, and other lean mass. By quite a large factor actually. Losing a few pounds of tissue from your most active organs (as happens with intentional calorie restriction) can lower metabolic rate by a large factor even if there appears to be no loss of muscle mass. I pity body builders, as they are probably experiencing more organ losses because the body is less reluctant to release skeletal muscle (since it thinks the person has to lift a bunch of heavy shit to survive!)
I just don’t understand why people think caloric deficit is healthy when it breaks down the organs inside a body. That’s like saying an elderly person with reduced food intake, constipation, osteoporosis and a weak digestive tract (my granny for example) is far healthier than the vast majority of the population. Good luck preventing that with weight training and massive amounts of protein shakes ;) (Don’t get me wrong, I lift weights sporadically, but without a grueling routine and protein shakes!).
If you don’t mind elaborating, Matt, I would be interested in hearing what are some other barriers to the metabolic zone you think need investigating.
Ah well, fat ingestion type is interesting, would be interesting to study various macronutrient breakdowns, micronutrient breakdowns, amino acid proportions, exercise vs. no exercise and what type of exercise, sleep quantity and depth, acute and chronic stress, blue light/red light, sleep patterns, medication age…
There are dozens of factors that probably have an effect on one’s ability to lower their set point. There isn’t much definitive research on any of it!
Hi Matt, thank you for your reply earlier to my question about potential confounding factors when attempting to reach the metabolic zone. I actually had another question, if you don’t mind, about whether you think white sugar or honey could be used as a way to get enough calories when attempting an ultra-low fat diet that would still have sufficient calories to avoid any metabolic slowdown typically associated with dieting. (This is in regard to your post at April 18, 2018 at 10:37 pm ). In your experience, you wrote, “few are capable of consistently eating a very strict and meticulous diet of 4,000 or more calories per day that’s completely fat free.” Strictly approaching that from whole foods also seems difficult, to me. But if one is using sugar to get the calories up there, do you think that could work without any negative effects? For example, one cup of orange juice is around 110 calories. But with two tablespoons of sugar, it’s closer to 200. While it might be crazy to eat 2000 grams of pure sugar, perhaps supplementing with sugar could give one a much easier time to get to sufficient calories (e.g., 4000), which providing at least some enjoyment in the way of taste. However, I don’t know enough about nutrition to know whether 1000 grams of white sugar will wreck you, or something.
I’m sorry, Matt, I just saw that you had replied earlier to Zach about adding sugar to a no-fat diet to make it more tolerable. I guess I am still wondering though if you think there would be an optimum either towards starch or sugars when attempting such a diet.
I think if you’re doing it as a vegetarian as Zach was, then you would want a high ratio of starch to sugar just by virtue of the fact that starches typically have 2-5X as much protein as fruit (and plain sugar and syrup has no protein at all). Obviously there are a ton of fruit-based vegans losing a shitload of weight eating a lot of calories. But they do so while lowering body temp and losing a lot of lean mass, typically. If you are to eat lean dairy and seafood, then I don’t think there’s as big of a need to eat starches. It’s just a matter of personal preference and how your body responds. I have always loved sweet foods above all else, so I find it quite easy to eat a very low fat diet with shitloads of tropical fruit, getting more than 50% of my calories from sugars. Your tastes and cravings will probably guide you towards the best balance between sweet and starchy/savory.
@skeptic, yes I do believe the mechanisms that lead to dramatic uptick in metabolism and fat lost.
First like this study shows, de novo lipogenesis just does not happen to any meaningful extent while overfeeding on carbs. https://academic.oup.com/ajcn/article/74/6/707/4737384 So when people gain fat from eating a surplus of calories, all fat stored is fat in the diet. So a zero fat diet, all excess energy will be used as fuel and heat production, aka raising metabolism.
Secondly and more important I believe is that the body still needs fat every day and especially at night for normal function. If you eat zero fat then all this will have to come from adipose. This is why I would wake up dramatically leaner on some days and dropped 40+ lbs seemingly overnight. Really it only took four months. These mechanisms seem very simple to comprehend yet most people call bullshit and cry CICO.
I measured and made sure I got at least 4K which was plenty for me. I felt stuffed all day but would wake up completely empty. I do believe Billy Craig did this exact thing but pushed himself into hyper territory for going to long and eating so much extra fuel.
Right above your post I detail my experience and thoughts on why it worked.
Thanks Zach. I’ve suspected this for a long time, and I brought this up for discussion a little over 8 years ago in this post: http://180degreehealth.com/maximum-nutrient-partitioning/
But I worried about the impracticality of it.
With years having gone by, and hundreds (okay fine, thousands) of vegan and fruitarian videos under my belt, I can now see that eating a fat-free diet is actually pretty easy if you are eating plenty of sugar with your starch.
I have always marveled at how quickly (too quickly, like dying of cancer quickly) weight flies off of me when I eat nothing but 3,000-3,500 or so calories of fruit per day. But I’ve never been able to stick with it for more than a week, as I feel like complete shit by the end of a week. I don’t feel stuffed at all. Quite the opposite. And weak, feeble, cold, dizzy, and lifeless. As most feel attempting to do some shit like that.
But eating a ton of noodles and rice with condiments like soy sauce and salsa and lean fish and dairy, and eating even more calories, could very well be doable.
And if you’re able to return to eating a normal, mixed diet after without weight regain, well that would be the holy grail. If you have any other tips to share for anyone looking to guinea pig themselves on this, please share them. It’s a worthy experiment for someone who has tried more moderate approaches unsuccessfully.
Right on, Matt. I remember that post, hard to believe it’s been 8+ years since I found 180degreehealth and left that low carb lyfe.
I have also tried and failed on a fruitarian/raw till 4 style diet a number of times. It seems way to cooling and would only work in the deep tropics, even then most fruitariand have that haunted hollow look to them. But there is no denying the ability of zero fat to improve health markers like diabetes, maybe even heart disease.
A few tricks I think that made it work best for me was that I did zero exercise besides some muscle control and walking. I also didn’t snack, I ate 3 big meals a day, really trying to stuff myself. Also I was lower in protein, I I’m not sure if that helped but I definitely wasn’t losing muscle and I felt good overall. The only real issues I had were with digestion but I was eating a lot of beans and veg with meals. If I were to do it again I’d stay away from them. I also might implement a fat refeed meal or day every so often just for fun, I was strict as hell but Now adays I don’t really have much self control and I don’t think a fat refeed would cause any issue with this unlike keto diets and carb refeeds. My hormones were also stellar, and libido was at an all time high which I think was mainly from great blood flow. I feel like fat restricts blood flow a bit and may cause systemic inflammation.
Eating big bowls of noodles was a staple for me. I’d buy the organic Ramon noodles which are wheat and usually eat at least 4 packs a meal. Also spaghetti. I’d drink a lot of juice as well so get extra cals.
That was the craziest thing, I ended up switching to an Edward Edmonds style diet right afterwords, taking out the fiber and starch and replacing it with lots of saturated fat. I was able to adjust just fine except for some heart issues, which I now think might have been from adding in coffee and chocolate.
2 years later though and I’m still eating whatever I want and weigh 160lbs at 5,11, 30? waist. This mornings breakfast was a full frozen pizza, some dried mango, low fat banilla yogurt and a big glass of lemonade.
Yeah I was thinking of a fatty meal that limited carbs might be integrated periodically, to satisfy any cravings there without hindering the approach.
I do feel like there has to be some magic in getting as much fat off the body as possible, purging out stored toxic material in fatty tissues as well as dumping all that stored PUFA. But that only works, of course, if you aren’t destroying your metabolism and setting up a massive binge to achieve that.
Seems like nonfat cottage cheese, tuna, and other real lean animal foods would probably be fine to add, and may be highly preferable over doing it completely vegan. Hopefully I’ll get an opportunity to play around with it someday, and hopefully a few others will try to replicate your results and have success in the meantime.
I’m liking the sound of this. Never liked the thought of the McDougall diet for life, but reframed as a weight loss hack I can see myself trying it. Maybe with 2 week diet breaks like Lyle McDonald talks about.
Carbsane was talking about this too, how she finally lost the last 30 pounds by eating VLF McDougall, and eating wtv she wanted when socializing.
I hear ya on releasing toxins Matt. Last time I lost a bunch of weight, the brief period before my metabolism died, I felt like a demigod. And my fat stores are probably 90% PUFA.
Without a doubt when the body decides to reset its fb setpoint lower, it’s inherently a good thing. That’s exactly what happened, I never really believed in a set point because I always was around 180-220 my whole adult life. To drop to 160 and stay there permenantely is pretty interesting. The body regulates its bf stores based on what its comfortable with and probably the amount of toxins it’s dealing with.
People can get lean with calorie restricting but we all know that it will get harder and harder to fight the stress hormones and your own bodies cravings. Fasting to lose weight is probably the worst thing you can do.
@Zach I remember someone eating skim milk and cocoa puffs to lose a lot of fat. Was that you? How much fat content is in organic ramen? I thought regular ramen tasted so good cuz the noodles are fatty? Or am I delerious and it’s just the cocaine like spices. I used to eat shit loads of ramen…after binge drinking as a teenager…terrible.
@anyone There are many that struggle with yeast issues. They follow anti candida diets and fail. Matt and others have talked about how higher carbs or sugar can actually help (alligators?).
One dude, Frederic Patanaude (a raw foodist i believe) says candida can be tamed with super low fat and he eats mostly fruit I believe. People have had success on curezone too doing super low fat. Perhaps this temporary super low fat stuff has potential for all sorts of uses. But it is true that lots of nutrition can come from fatty foods no? So it’s important to do it temporarily so we get our viduhmins riight? Itll take a lot of brain scrubbing to get me to stop thinkin all wapfish or paleoish as far as nutrient density goes. Pastured eggs, butter, A-2 dairy, pastured organs etc..
Where does adequate vitamin A come from on low fat? Or is beta carotenes shitty bio availability a lie too…
Isn’t whole milk dairy products more beneficial to the body than low fat dairy. Or is this low fat diet just temperary to shed some fat? What would be considered low fat, 20% fat? Where would you get Vit A of your eating lean meat and dairy foods? :)
These are odd questions Rachel, lol.
He’s not talking about eating a low-fat diet. He’s talking about eating a 1-2% fat diet. And it’s not to “shed some fat” like it’s no big deal. The intent is to lose fat on a very high-calorie diet with no metabolic downregulation. Something that’s thought to be completely and totally physiologically impossible.
Most vitamin A comes from beta carotene, which comes from plant foods with very little fat. The richest source of preformed vitamin A comes from liver, which is also a virtually fat free food. You might want to ease up on the WAPF Koolaid!
Yikes! How is that possible to eat 1-2% fat. That’s craziness. I’m going back to my butter ;)
Zach went back to his butter too, he just decided to get his metabolism really high and lose his excess bodyfat first.
Matt, do you think this is achievable without going too low in fat? Not a big fan of any fat anymore(i.e. can’t eat 5 haagen-dazs like I did right after quitting dieting) but still the carby staples taste like nothing without a bit of grease. I’m planning on implementing Billy’s approach on eating by increasing my calorie(carb) intake gradually just to see what happens. He says in the 180D newsletter that he ate chocolate desserts while on the 6000cal experiment, so perhaps a small amount of fat is not a big issue when the carbs are high enough?
Yes, I think it is achievable. I don’t know what your chances of success with it are, but it’s possible.
For years we’ve debated about the ideal macronutrient ratios of refeeding, and I have decided over the years that most people can’t achieve consistent high-calorie intakes sufficient to raise metabolic rate unless their food is maximally palatable. That’s why I haven’t emphasized it, but have instead emphasized ice cream, burgers, pizza, fries, and other common favorite foods. In my experience, few are capable of consistently eating a very strict and meticulous diet of 4,000 or more calories per day that’s completely fat free. That’s not easy to do!
But the theoretical, hypothetical ideal macronutrient ratio has always been as high in carbs as possible.
Rachael you are missing the whole point. Its not a diet, there are plenty of almost zero fat diets out there already like McDougall, raw till 4, Pritikin rice diet, etc. the point is to remove body fat the only healthy possible way by raising metabolism to optimal levels and removing body through normal bodily processes. Almost every diet/hack that claims fat loss is losing fat one way, driving stress hormones high and dumping lipids into the blood stream. Anywho,yea most days now I eat over 100g of fat, and definitely not all saturated, I just ate a sandwich that had mayo. :O
Juan, there are two reasons why I don’t think a low fat high carb diet will work in the same capacity. One, fat blunts insulin sensitivity. Two, fat will automatically be stored in adipose tissue if carbs are high. So while a top limit of maybe %10 fat still might achieve the same result, it might take longer. Above that and I doubt you will get the same results. One thing about Billy Craig’s experiment was that he was already very lean when he started, his goal wasn’t to lose a bunch of fat but to just prove that CICO is bullshit.
Zach,
I just wanted to say that I’m enjoying your contributions. I imagine Matt must sometimes get tired of repeating the same things to folks. Though, he’s always patient and helpful. So, it’s always good to have other folks offering explanations in their own words and providing clarification.
My thanks to you and all commenters. This is why I really love this blog.
Hi Zach – I have a few questions regarding your experience with the ultra low fat diet while still avoiding metabolism slowdown via high calorie and carb consumption. If you would not mind elaborating on your experience, I would greatly appreciate it.
1. Did you end up experiencing any negative effects typically associated with diets? Any issues with sleep and so on?
2. Did you use white sugar/honey as a way to get in more calories? If so, would you happen to recall around what percent of your diet they composed? I see that you wrote you made sure to get around 4000 calories overall.
3. How much of your diet was starch like rice and potatoes, and how much of it was sugars like fruit, fruit juices, etc.
4. How much protein were you getting (grams/calories)? Which sources did you rely on for protein?
Thank you very much for any responses, if you have the time. This is quite paradigm busting, so I am very curious about what you did.
Hey Zack, thanks for your thoughts. Personally, I’m not going super crazy for fats anymore like I did when quitting calorie deficit lifestyle. It was quite fun to eat 100grams of parmigiano with 5 cups of Haagen-Dazs for a while, but those foods (especially ice cream) did make me a bit cold and automatically shifted me towards lowered fat intake. Maybe my body just needed those to regain all of the fats lost through brutal dieting. For the past few days I’ve been eating pretty low fat during the day (A LOT of sushi with bits of lean fish), and use about 2-3tsp of coconut oil to make a stir-fry with some lean seafoods and veggies with tons of rice for dinner. On top of this, about a quart of fruit juices are washed in. I also started eating more frequently since my appetite was so down in the morning and it made me fast unintentionally for the past few months. I’ll try increasing my calories from carbs every week and see what happens over the next few months.
Inquiring,
The only side effects I experienced were positive. Increased libido, increased flexibility, deep sleep, lower inflammation. All this i attribute to better blood flow in general and perhaps fat has a systemic inflammatory response or that it allows endotoxin uptake. The only negative was that I started getting too lean IMO and my digestion was rough, pooping 3+ times a day but I was eating a lot of random fruit/veg and beans.
I did not use honey or sugar very often, relying mostly on starch and whole food sugar like dried fruit and juice. I did use maple syrup quite a bit. I’d say my diet was 70/30 starch to sugar. Starch is just much more satisfying. Also with metabolism raising so high, displacing real food for empty calories would not be a great idea.
My protein was low as I was a practicing veggie at the time. I did some egg whites but I hated throwing away the yolks so I didn’t eat them often and I drank skim milk and ate zero fat yogurt. Also a can of beans a day usually. I did some gelatin powders as well and would say I averaged 70-100g protein.
Juan,
Your current diet sounds pretty optimal. I have said for awhile that a tropical coastal diet is probably closest to our optimal diet. We evolved by the sea as evidence by the high amount of sea minerals we need. We also need a lot of sugar/carbs to run optimally which grow in lush environment. Seafood is also very balanced, high amount of glycine/taurine to methionine, high omega 3 to 6 but usually stop low pufa overall and high in vits and minerals. A diet high in tropical fish/shellfish, tropical fruit and some occasional eggs, tubers, greens and goat dairy seems perfect to me. The dairy may not be necessary if consuming some shell calcium.
I agree Zach. I too have always considered a tropical diet of primarily roots, fruits, coconut, and seafood to be the hypothetical optimum human diet. But maybe that’s just my inner Staffan Lindeberg talking, lol.
Zach, thank you for filling in the details about your ultra low fat diet experience. I’m glad that it all worked out. The principles seem sound so I hope it catches on as opposed to the traditional calorie cutting/low metabolism approaches out there. I am curious to try it one day.
Just a quick update on my current situation. So currently I’m trying Billy Craig’s approach to a high metabolism (increasing calories gradually), also implementing Zack’s idea(lowering fat intake, not obsessively but reduced the whole milk I used to drink up to a quart/day or so) and it seems like there are some improvements. First of all, my body heats up so hot that I cannot sit around and have to move around spontaneously after eating. My libido is skyrocketing that I had a “hard time” dealing with my beast mode sex drive. The sleep quality improved, and the appetite is like an incinerator that it increased my caloric intake, especially from carbs, dramatically. I still eat fat but not obsessed with it. My usual meal breakdown looks like: A large bowl of white rice (~600g) with salty topping, some bananas and fruit juice for breakfast, More rice and fruit juice during lunch, then a coconut oil or butter stir fry with another huge bowl of rice(with more fruit juice, of course). I snack on some dried fruits or juice whenever getting hungry.
Note, this is a personal experiment I’m currently trying it out on myself and it doesn’t imply people should eat this way or anything. Especially if you just quitted your lifelong dieting or whatever, it’s probably better to eat things that you really crave rather than copying me. I might be overhyping or something, so think twice before just blindly following my experiment.
Yeah I’m messing around with it a little bit too Juan. Mostly giant bowls of vegetables and fish all poached together over a ton of rice, and then fruit or big banana smoothies in between and before bed. The highest I’ve been able to go in calories is only about 3,200 in a day, but if I can get a second smoothie down before bed tonight I should come close to 4,000. Already had more sex this weekend than in the 19 days prior this month, lol. So far so good. It’s REALLY tough to get the big volumes of food down for sure though. My stomach feels like an overinflated beach ball right now. :)
Matt, I really feel you for the ballooning belly, lol. I guess the big key to continue this experiment is to eat some bits of fats here and there unless you have literally an INSANE willpower. I still believe fat (especially saturated) is very important, but ingest it like Jimmy Moore and probably we end up having some problems (Eating A LOT of SFA rich foods raises your overall PUFA intake anyways). But hey, who hates enjoying some cooked potatoes/rice with a bit of butter or coconut milk? Without those the foods will taste like nothing and our calorie consumption will drop. I’m probably eating around the same amounts of calories as you do, and will try to increase the intake slowly.
Also, I lately saw a documentary on an obese individual(4’9″, 214lbs, BMI of 43) who ate around 3800kcal and had diabetes (along with other bad health biomarkers). She did eat good amounts of carbohydrate, but also ingested lots of fats, mostly PUFA, from fried chicken, stir-fries, and other snacks that are high in fat. Maybe the documentary is oversimplifying her situation and not considering other factors that caused the health issue, but it’s probably logical to reduce fat to improve insulin sensitivity especially when it is polyunsaturated. That Chris Randall guy who wrote some articles here did lose his fat from eating relatively low fat, high sugar/carb diet, so probably it’s not a bad thing unless the calorie drops.
Damn I wanna join in on this experiment but fruit juice gives me heartburn, and I can’t handle most fibrous foods at this point from IBS, so should I try to just pound rice and pasta instead? There’s no way I can hit 4k calories tho.
P.S. Matt I finally started reading T.S.Wiley and I have to say I’m disappointed. Her writing style sounds like a crazy homeless lady who just cornered you to tell you how UFOs came down and kidnapped her husband, and she un-ironically calls carbs “instruments of death” lol. I’m guessing carbs aren’t allowed on her diet. Meh.
Yeah I read that in 2008. The premise sounded interesting, but yes, she’s been accused of being a complete wacko. Aren’t we all without carbs though?
+Skeptic:
Here’s some fun reading on Wiley from Wikipedia:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/T._S._Wiley#Controversy
Haha yeah. I knew her whole fiasco with Schwarzbein.
So Matt, How’s the low fat/high carb high calorie experiment going? Let me give you an example of my calorie intake and macro breakdowns a few days ago: Total calories consumed=3845kcal, Protein=116g,Fat=30g,Carbs?759g. The total fat intake is 7 percent which is pretty damn low. Hands and feet are warm all day, poop 2-3times a day, and pee 4-5times/day. Everything just seems fine (just a bit of insomnia yesterday) and I’ll try to sustain this for a few months, maybe even up to one year. Do you still experience all of the positive effects you’ve mentioned?
I wasn’t digging the higher calories, even though my metabolism was noticeably higher. I think I’ll have to slowly increase my calories.
Yeah I’m certainly a wacko if my carbs dip below 50% even. She was right about circadian rythm I guess, that field is blowing up now. All the circadian rythm people I follow like Rhonda Patrick or Satchin Panda are also low carb sadly.
I feel like there’s something there but it usually detours into hating carbs instead. A lot of them are into front front loading calories too, because apparently the body handles both carbs and fat better in the morning, and also a big meal early would reduce your appetite for the whole day. Have you ever experimented with front loading Matt?
@ Carl: her rants against Walter Willet are crazy lol
Yeah, I’m generally an advocate of front-loading. I’m not a Nazi about it or anything, but eating big when metabolism is lower and cortisol is higher makes sense to me, while eating less in the evening when you’re already at your warmest, with lower stress hormones.
Hey Matt, glad to hear you are doing well. Personally increasing maybe 200kcal/week sounds doable (I also don’t constantly hit 3800kcal, maybe the average is 3500) . Also I forgot to mention this but my urine cleared up (it’s still yellow) since lowering my fat intake, whereas it was ?cloudy? especially after a high fat meal. Not sure if it has to do with the fat itself though.
Right on, I’m trying to shift to front loading. I was always one of those people who said “but I’m not hungry in the morning…”, Then I realized it’s because I ate a 2000 calorie “dinner” almost right before bed and drank a “cup”/pint of coffee upon waking.
P.s. speak of the devil, Billy Craig just dropped his book after all this time. It’s called Consistent Eating: Is Dieting Harming Your Health And Your Weight Loss?
Bought it on Kindle, will read some tonight.
Someone should make a book with palatable low fat meals if they have success with Billy Craigs/ Zach’s consistent eating approach losing fat. I am going to start reading Billy Craigs book right away. I am wondering if eating extremely low fat but high calories somehow makes us “fat adapted” like the keto people, except without the stress hormones. I am referring to when Zach spoke of the body needing fat despite not consuming any, it uses its own.
Can anyone recreate what Billy Craig supposedly did?
Hey Bob, I tried eating as much as I could right after quitting weight loss, but I was able to cram in 4500kcal maximum no matter what. 6000 seems like an impossibility to me.
Hi Juan, I’m still refeeding, and I have been able to get to 6000 calories consumed a few times, but on those days I always had some kind of ‘junk’ food to get an easy amount of calories in, such as pizza, or McDonalds. Also, I added white sugar to some of my drinks to again, get easy calories. 6000 just on whole foods without any processed foods would be pretty tough.
Thanks for responding, all of you. If you were able to go up to 4500, then could you maintain that amount everyday to see what would happen? It would be so awesome if consistent excess calories lower your weight set point but most people call bullshit on it. When i ate a lot i never tracked calories. I would do it again but i am eating “clean” (still to appetite of course) at the moment and I dont want to gain weight, again, on a whim.
Hey Bob, I’m now trying to implement Billy’s approach to increasing calories. First,I’ll calculate my Basic Metabolic Rate(BMR) and then get my Total Daily Energy Expenditure(TDEE)by multiplying my activity level to BMR. Although this may not be an accurate figure, it gives an idea for people where to start from. From here, I’ll adjust calorie intake by adding 200-500cals/week or so to work it up to the high calorie range(4000+?). The added calories will probably be carbs (unless if you indulge an entire stick of butter or protein shakes, lol). My current food intake is around 2400-2600cals but sometimes it goes below 2000 because of some inconsistencies (unintentional fasting, being busy and not being able to eat, bloated stomach, etc). I’m 22, 5’8” and weigh around 230lbs, so it would be great if the fats just melt off so that I can participate on my favorite outdoor activities.
Hi Bob, the closest examples I can think of are people who have followed Gwyneth Olwyn’s “Minnie Maud” recovery idea (I think she now calls it Homeodynamic Recovery). If you search Youtube, you can see some videos by people who recovered from eating disorders follow that recovery method. They usually eat at least 3000 calories, but often will go higher than that during times where hunger is unrelenting. Not to be superficial, but all they seemed to have slimmed out during the time when they made their videos. So it’s not an exact replica of Billy Craig’s experiment, but it’s quite similar: people eating 3000+ calories everyday consistently after recovering from a diet, gaining weight, overshooting their weight set point, and then their body naturally shedding excess weight after a certain time, without decreasing calories.
Hey IM, I was probably eating 3-5 cups of haagen-dazs when ingesting 4500kcal on top of everything else I ate like rice, pasta, cheese, etc. Not a big fan of ice cream anymore, but I still love all those starchy goodness which adds up to 2600-3000+ calories (on top of some saturated fats, and some proteins like beef, fish, dairy, shrimp, etc). Maybe it just depends on our body size (height?), but I’m not sure. Perhaps I ate even more on a cheat day while dieting, ironically.
Thank you, Matt, for sharing your thoughts on the starch vs. sugar approach when attempting an ultra-low fat diet. Maybe I will try it one day.
The body is very adaptable, for sure. That’s an evolutionary survival tactic that it has perfected!
I’ve read a few 99cent “meditate your way thin” books… one proposes you can lose weight by talking with your body and just convincing it that it wants to drop the pounds.
I think there’s something to that – to being in the right frame of mind – But, the communication has to go both ways:
you can tell your body you want to be thin, but if it tells you that TODAY it needs carbs, you best give it some!
Haha. Yeah, that was my first thought. People need to stop telling their bodies what to do and LISTEN more! :)
I’ve been the one meal a day diet plan several times actually. It screws your metabolism up I can tell you firsthand, and, for me at least, causes food binging sessions. It’s a horrible idea. Why did I go on it more than once if I had issues? I don’t know, I guess I thought the next time would be different…
It’s okay Dan. It’s really easy to get diet amnesia and forget about bad things that happened, or think that if you tweak a variable or two (ooh, if I just eat MORE in my meal du jour I’ll be fine!) the outcome will be different.
I’ll add that I’ve tried every form of intermittent fasting that there is from lean gains to eating once every 72 hours. I actually have pretty good willpower but I’ve never noticed any difference at all in how I feel other than tired and weak of course, I’ve never seen any substantial fat loss, and I’ve done some of these fasts for longer than two months at a time but never made it quite three months. I don’t do well with very low carb like keto or paleo. I get heart palpitations and heart arrhythmias that just aren’t normal and I don’t sleep hardly at all even adjusting my electrolytes doesn’t work and I’ve tried every concoction that there is. I just eat fairly normally now but I’m also very active. Still, weight loss is very slow or almost impossible though I don’t gain. I just stay the same which is still very overweight. It’s a day-to-day struggle and I have three different trainers that kick my ass five days a week and a dog that needs lots of exercise. My friends tell me that if they did the amount of activity I did they?d be as thin as a rail yet I’m not. Sad, but I keep going. Here’s a funny one to end this with. When I recently switched to this new gym which is basically HIIT, CrossFit and personalized training in small sessions – the owner said to me ?You surprised us with all of the ?hidden Fitness? that you have. Translation: ?You can do a lot of strenuous activity for someone so fat!
What happens when you mostly eat fruit, rice, and lean meat and dairy? (Like maybe 70-15-15)
Respectfully wondering if anyone here has feedback on eating according to one’s genotype (Dr. Peter D Adamo -blood type diet /eat right 4your type / 4your genotype). ??
I think there’s something to the ‘eat for your type’ diets… there’s another book out there “Death by Food Pyramid” that talks about the differences in ancestry leading to evolutionary variances in things like salivary amylase (AMY1 copies), which directly effect a person’s ability to digest starch.
I’m not sure your blood type is a close enough factor – especially in today’s mixing pot of DNA. It might just take some experimentation on yourself – eat what you want, determine how you feel afterwards… if you get indigestion or lethargic, it probably means that wasn’t the right food for your body (on that day).
Just my thoughts.
B – Denise Minger has an interesting presentation about it on Youtube called “The Blood Type Diet: Rescuing the Baby from the Bathwater”
I did that one, after a naturopath I was going to (who went to school with D’Adamo) strongly recommended it. I went from vegetarian to meat-eater, followed everything, and didn’t notice any difference. But being a good student, I was also drinking tons of water and was freezing all the time, so that could have negated any possible benefit from following the diet.
Hi Matt,
for someone like me that get the train on… taunting and joking about a diet, it’s not enough, you have to explain yourself a little bit more.
Robert Skinner (smile) [the IF diet 2018] pretend to see people succeeded in losing weight and keeping stable since 5 years.
so what’s about the 16/8, the 5:2 week (5 days full, 2 at 600 cal.) and the alternating day (2000 cal. one day, 600 the other, so on…) ?
I can’t speak for Matt, but I can share what I have learned from reading his stuff.
When I first started reading, I was looking for him to say what DOES work to lose weight. This and this and that and that don’t work, insert lots of humor, yeah ok I get it….but what DOES work?! I wanted answers!
The problem is, what I read was that ____ works for some people some times and then it doesn’t, and then ____ works for other people some times and then it doesn’t, and there is never a universal answer that works for all people all the time because our bodies are so incredibly complex with billions of variables that are not in our control (but it’s fun to explore some of them and so he does).
So let’s change the conversation from “how do I lose weight” to “how can I FEEL better from the abuse my body has taken from years of dieting”. From reading the comments section of many of his blogs, most of us have ended up gaining weight and very few have lost it….BUT….with the weight gain we got back our health and our sanity. We’ll take being “fat” and healthy and enjoying food and our lives again over striving (and mostly failing) to be thin, sick, cold, and starving.
Perhaps Matt will chime in and explain himself a little more.
Sharonimo-
You make excellent points. And if you pay attention to what so many say in the comments, despite feeling better they still contend that “I NEED to lose weight”.
We’ve been conditioned all of our lives to believe that being thin is the only way to be attractive. If we don’t get that job we thought we were the best qualified for; if we don’t meet our soulmate; if we fail at anything in our lives, we blame our weight. And in some ways, there is truth to that because of society’s bias against fat. Being heavier and not having a way to change it, especially for a woman, is a bitter pill to swallow.
Ultimately, the beauty of youth will fade if we are lucky enough to have a long life. If you can’t accept that, you better make a lot of money to pay for a life filled with plastic surgery and spanx.
It’s like the Woody Allen joke: ?I’d never join a club that would allow a person like me to become a member.
It’s up to us as an individual to at least be neutral about your body, and accept and appreciate that the ?you? is inside you. What is your purpose on earth- just to look good? YUCK. Who would want a friend like that?
Weight is not the true measure of a person. People who judge others based upon their appearance are mean and shallow. Until the person who is heavier is ready and willing to stand up for themselves and reject the I NEED to lose weight? belief, there will always be a bias against fat people.
Remember Billy Crystal’s comedy riff: “Darling, you look marvelous….It is better to look good than to feel good”..
Feeling better physically is great, but eventually that negative self-judgment about your weight will have an adverse impact on one’s health. And then you won’t look good or feel good!
I am normally a size 3/5. After dieting and delivering my 4th child, going off diets, taking coumadin(that screwed my metabolism up BIG, I ended up gaining weight. I feel better, but still struggle with my temp. It is better since taking magnesium and high doses of vitamin C, but not quite there. It will be in time. With the weight gain, I am a size 11. I do not feel that big. I also get more complements. When I dieted, I was a size 0. I did not even know they went that low until then. My temps now are low to mid 98s. I want them higher. I know I will get there. I also know that I will lose the excess weight, but I really do not feel the need to. My husband loves me the way I am and I have been asked out quite a bit(my ring does not fit since gaining the weight. But I am happy, my children can even tell when their temps are low. Usually when they drink too much. That does not happen much because they are learning to listen to their bodies.
I really appreciate what Matt is doing. I let people know how dieting can effect them, but not everyone listens. I have loaned his books out to a few people. Some have bought the books themselves so they have them. Thank you, Matt, for the inspiration.
Yeah that’s pretty accurate. Although, your version is a lot more optimistic than mine! I’m pretty sure most people will never lose weight and keep it off permanently, and those who do via intentional restriction or deficit and don’t gain it back are going to have to endure a lifetime of very intense self-control while battling low metabolism and all its joys. Like that “raw vegan trucker guy” who gained all the weight back because he was tasting food that he was cooking for his mom! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LkGb03j9ZGo&t=2s
“Even a potato chip could tip you over the scale!”
So I think there’s really no choice but to explore the high-calorie, low-stress way of trying to force the weight set point to fall. But I think we’re a long way from really knowing how best to achieve that, or, at the very least, knowing exactly who can succeed and who can’t and why.
I have read all of Matts books.
I am in Diet recovery mode & have never felt better.
So many things have improved:
Bowels regular for first time in 30 years
appetite normal, no desire to over eat
I eat sugar & salt regularly and feel balanced because of it
I eat normal foods & have no avoids list
depression-gone
anxiety 90% improved
hormones-normal
body temperature-hotter
I am still needing to lose 50 lbs, I know that will come in time.
But, it is not my priority.
Feeling good, normal & being in repair mode is my focus & it feels fantastic.
I have been eating for heat since I bought the book Eat for Heat nearly 6 years ago, found internationally purchased thyroid and supplemented, stopped drinking water by the quart. Eating again my weight gain rose to highest plus 15 pounds more; temp did not rise. When I started looking into and taking a modest amount of D3 4,000 to 6,000 IU in 2017 October to December off and on and finally up to 50,000 in January 2018 is the only time in my life I can remember my waking temps being in the 98s to the low 99s and staying there…needing fewer outdoor winter coverings. And especially so since I upped it latter January to now to 20 mg/100,000 IU to finally stop bladder leakage and keep at bay. Since I now wear lighter or fewer clothing layers, sunshine will be able to reach my skin (northern continental US state) and I suspect I’ll become more naturally saturated with D3 and need less supplemental IU. For staying toasty in bed, I sleep on a positive body circulation 5.3 degree inclined mattress (7 inch risers under 75 inch long mattress). No electric blanket for over 3 years now…just the incline and another layer of blanket in winter which gets tossed off within a few minutes or sometime during the night and just use the sheet if the breeze of the box fan (white noise) is annoying enough to wake me. With D3 it’s even quicker to get back to toasty in a 60 degree cold bed. D3 requires certain complimentary supplements (magnesium, K2, zinc, pregnenolone, etc.) My age 62 with a past of over 4 decades of dieting/starving myself.
AnnB — do you do blood tests of your Vit D levels?
Has anyone else tried the mega-mega-doses of Vit D? As with everything, so much mixed info out there….
Years ago I listened to this podcast between Matt Stone and Dr. Garrett Smith http://180radio.com/180degreehealth-8-dont-supplement-vitamin-d-youre-heard/
It led me to STOP supplementing with Vitamin D and get my minerals tested. I have a rare autoimmune disease that causes me to break out in an allergic rash if my skin gets damaged, usually by the sun, so I cannot get my vitamin D from the sun. I used to take lots of D and FCLO as well. After listening to this podcast and getting my minerals tested with Dr. G, I started taking a whole lot more MAGNESIUM (orotate) and my D naturally went up.
We’re all looking for the magical unicorn, and I swear if one exists, it’s horn would be made of magnesium!
That’s awesome Sharonimo. Love Garrett’s insights on Vitamin D. Some gamechanging shit for sure.
I want to thank all (turtlegirl, Sharonimo) who questioned my super doses of Vitamin D3 and Matt for having covered this in a podcast (I missed it) back in 2014.
The last couple weeks I’ve been experiencing some health issues, and was suspecting D3, but not wanting to be back to bladder leakage, was putting blinders on to ignore it.
Yes, I’m very pleased to have stronger fingernails, no more acid reflux, and no bladder leakage; but not fond of anorexia, headaches and increased blood pressure and the recent need to get up at night to pee.
Will stop D3 and see if my body fat is saturated enough now to keep the bladder leakage at bay.
In my state bordering on Canada the sky is clearing of rain clouds and the temperature is warm enough midday to be outside with light clothing.
Thanks all for your input. Magnesium will be enough for now…and regaining appetite to eat again with pleasure.
If I do supplement again, it will be as little as possible to keep the benefits that I can see: no reflux, no BBL and healthier fingernails (stronger than I have EVER had).
AnnB — you may already know/do all this, but I’m almost positive that I’ve read that Kegels can help with bladder leakage. I hope you find something that helps you.
turtlegirl Kegel exercises have no effect on bladder leakage….as much as they (anyone who has authored a book on it..The Bathroom Key) would like you to think. It’s a much deeper muscle issue than exercises can touch. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3691097/
Let us know how that goes Ann!
Well, it wasn’t the Vitamin D3, it was Staph.
I’d had a V-fungal infection. Treated that with generic Monistat. Then started having headaches that began on the spine at shoulder level going behind the left ear over the top of my head to the cheek. Then it changed to the other side, back and forth.
This last week/third week pus pimples erupted on my scalp where my CPAP straps rest. Picked and popped them and headaches got more severe.
Then it occurred to me (even though I’ve had these before) that it could be staph.
By the end of the third week (late afternoon yesterday) it got a cotton cosmetic pad soaked with Povidone Iodine and slathered the pimply spots in my scalp and shoulder/spine/neck where there was just the throbbing pain. Within the hour the pain was gone.
When the pain started to returned, I slathered the painful areas, (pimples/unbroken skin with pain) and repeated until no pain and knew I’d be able to sleep.
I have a painful spot beginning so will slather, take a shower and slather again as necessary.
Regarding the D3, took a couple days off. First day, OK. Next day, leaky bladder. Since D3 isn’t the cause of the above, I’ll keep taking it and enjoy being able to stand/move/stretch/bend/climb/squat without fear.
No, I didn’t nor have I done any since, nor do I feel any need. I was a dieter for 40+ years and shunned the sun (fair skin which burned easily), always cold so more layers than normal metabolic people all year long, no energy to want to be outside.
For now the indicator that I still need D3 at the 20 mg level is the bladder leakage issue. It stopped the daily use of Always Ultra Thin Overnight pads that was escalating to overnight bed protection if I didn’t want to use a pad in my underwear. It went from stress leakage: cough, sneeze, bending, getting up from a chair, squats, getting down to/up from the floor, getting into/out of bed/a pickup, turning in bed….to just walking across the floor, standing.
I was also constantly drinking bicarb water to curb acid reflux…even from drinking plain water. I was searching for acid reflux relief and found a forum where a woman at age 60 or 64 discovered D3 was healing her reflux and she discovered a side benefit was when a recent onset of bladder leakage stopped within a week.
So I did more research and decided to try it in dosages that actually had an affect. Now I dose accordingly. For now if I miss a full 100,000 IU every day, it begins to return. Get back to the 100,000 IU = no leakage and I can do all the things I listed with no need for clothing protection.
D3 also reduced then stopped any need for thyroid.
Thanks everybody for your responses re: mega-doses of D. Interesting topic. I did listen to the podcast — good stuff!
Additionally, I discovered I wasn’t taking enough Magnesium for the amount of D3 I am taking. It was all used up resulting in heachaches and neck/shoulder pain, constipation.
I had only been taking my normal daily amount prior to D3 supplementation of one capsule and I had recently doubled that. But, as I discovered yesterday, I kept taking magnesium until the headache and neck/shoulder pain stopped. Total 6 capsules of Magnesium Asporotate by Solaray. Cleared up the constipation, too.
Niggling toward a headache when I got up after 5 hours of sleep to bottle feed a kitten, so I took 2 caps with a 1/2 cup milk and back to bed.
Four hours later, no morning headache.
One third of D3, and 2 magnesium caps….will dose both throughout the day instead of just once in the morning.
After 3 months of 100,000 D3 a day, I’ll be continuing to experiment to find my maintenance dose now that I’ll be keeping the magnesium matched to the D3.
As I mentioned before, thyroid didn’t get the temps up or appetite normalized (so I could actually listen to/hear my body, but D3 did. I’m an even pickier eater than before, but no foods are off limits…back to preteen/pre-diet eating. Pickier as in Normal.
If there was a fire in my house, I’d run back in for the magnesium! LOL I’m taking malate and glycinate about 700 mg. Under stress I have to up the level or I get constipated! Boy, my body lets me know when I need more magnesium.
I only take 5,000 iu of D3.
I too, cannot get my temps up during the am. I’m in the 96.6 range, and it goes up later in the day. Night time, I’m warm. (have very weak appetite and digestion).
Recently I’ve been suffering from muscle cramps and weakness in my feet and calves. (tried hydration, electrolytes, pickle juice – YUCK! stretching). Nothing works. Not fun. I’ve done tons of searching in the internet, but haven’t found any answers. I think I may have to check my thyroid levels again and up my dose.
I stopped dieting a couple years back and haven’t gained weight, (23, 5ft4 and 155lbs)I’m grateful to you in so many ways Matt! I was on low carb paleo for a long time, eating mainly fish eggs and green veg and then bingeing like crazy when I got too hungry or couldn’t take it anymore. I still pee like a racehorse though, and struggle to cut back on liquids as I’m frequently thirsty. I still have moments where I’m convinced I should be thinner, but as soon as I get hungry I just react and eat what sounds good. I can’t take diets anymore, the very whiff of one makes me want to just die, it’s just an absolute living hell, fighting your urge to eat all the time. I’d honestly rather lose my legs than go on another diet. I have digestive issues though, presumably from dieting and bingeing all the time, and low carb. I get acid reflux, have a peptic ulcer, and ibs like symptoms. Is there anything I can do to improve my situation? I sleep like I’m dead, eat a broad range of foods and exercise juuuust a little, nothing strenuous.
Fish eggs and green veg, lol. That sounds absolutely miserable!
Not sure exactly what you could do on the digestion front. You might try eating a lot of raw, tropical fruit consistently and seeing if you can at least keep your bowels flowing consistently without inflammation and IBS cycles (I assume you have cycles of constipation and diarrhea that alternate, as is typical). Or just playing around with your carbohydrate sources in general, seeing what treats you the best.
Hi Matt, any thoughts on the idea that Asians are more prone to type 2 diabetes at a lower weight range than others? I hear this everywhere, from the internet to a biochem professor, and the solution they say is to stay within the average weight range by controlling food intake. Have you ever heard about this?
Lower weight or lower BMI? I haven’t heard that specifically, nor do I have any major thoughts about it. In general, the less white a race, the more sensitive that race is to obesity and obesity-related conditions. I believe this may have something to do with people in the far latitudes having a longer history of calorie-dense gourmet eating, and less sensitive dopamine receptors as a result. I wrote about this a little bit long ago in a post about dopamine.
Not sure if its BMI or weight. I just keep on hearing “Asians shouldn’t be as fat as the Westerners” because of this idea. I think an article like this one explains this phenomenon.
http://asiandiabetesprevention.org/what-is-diabetes/why-are-asians-higher-risk
One thing that makes this very confusing though is that some people explain this is caused by carbs. Something like “Japanese eat more rice than Westerners, and that’s why the incidence of diabetes is increasing”. Really puzzling.
Or maybe it was more like “Asians get diabetic before they get morbidly obese like the Westerners”, though I’m not sure if that proves Westerners don’t become diabetic when they are in the “overweight” range.
Incidence of most degenerative illnesses are on the rise in every country.
Here is some of the best diabetes data. Japan and Singapore are among the lowest diabetes incidence in the world. http://www.worldlifeexpectancy.com/cause-of-death/diabetes-mellitus/by-country/
Where diabetes is by far the highest is on tropical islands for some reason, perhaps because those areas were isolated from western civilization the longest?
It’s interesting as pacific islanders are known for eating a lot of fatty meat. Lots of pork, turkey necks, and mutton flap. In 2000, Fiji banned the import of mutton flap!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sQ9ob0kpCeE
But their problems have persisted. The supermarket shelves are still lined with tons of chips, cookies, and sodas and a lot less traditional food. It’s basically like your standard American diet, which is a high-fat diet with the majority of carbohydrates coming from refined carbohydrates. Like 20% of their calories have nutrients, lol.
I mean, I’m all about helping chronic dieters loosen up with their eating, but the majority of non-health-conscious people should be eating a lot more fresh fruits, roots, and vegetables.
I see. At least for Japan, the incidence of diabetes seems the highest in the areas with high consumption of instant noodles. I’ve heard people there literally ingest cup noodles every morning, which doesn’t sound good long term regarding the way noodles are fried in oils.
For Pacific islanders, I saw a documentary mentioning about the lack of veggies and fruits in their general diet, which caused some major malnourishment in their micronutrient needs. It was so extreme to a point where this boy tasted veggies for the first time in his entire life and craved more of them!
Speaking of high fat, do you mean by high conventional PUFA diet, or just fats in general? I tend to gravitate towards lower fat and more carbs anyways, but I’m just curious.
I definitely think a large amount of any fat is probably negative. It loads up the blood and muscles with fat and impairs glucose metabolism. But yes, of course I think PUFA is probably worse when it comes to impaired glucose metabolism. “Turkey tails” and whole pigs chock full of AA are favorites among Pacific islanders, and PUFA-fried noodles loaded with MSG don’t sound too healthy to me either.
Clearly, the best place to get advice on this topic is a shirtless guy on YouTube:
How Often Should We Eat?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=evEKpfgnxD4
———————
John Rose
Here is a small snippet from my file on One Meal A Day and this all comes from Herbert Shelton:
?The Science and Fine Art of Food and Nutrition?
The Hygienic System: Volume II
Herbert M. Shelton
How Much Shall We Eat?
CHAPTER XXIV
? The question of how much to eat has engaged the attention of many able men and women, but the question has not been answered. The so-called scientists have figured out our requirements in calories. This I have already shown to be a fallacy. Most people advocate eating all the appetite calls for. But appetite is a creature of habit and can be trained to be satisfied with little food or to demand enormous quantities. The business of creating gluttonous appetites begins in infancy when infants are stuffed day and night. Dr. Page proved that an infant may be taught to guzzle day and night, or to content itself with two to four meals a day.
? TWO MEALS A DAY
? Major Austin says: “Truly, popular tastes and prejudices are rooted more in social habits than in basic physiological demands.” It should be known that the three-meals-a-day custom is really a modern one, and is not universally practiced even today. So far as history records none of the nations of antiquity practiced it. At the period of their greatest power, the Greeks and Romans ate only one meal a day. Dr. Oswald says: “For more than a thousand years the one-meal system was the rule in two countries that could raise armies of men every one of whom would have made his fortune as a modern athlete–men who marched for days under a load of iron (besides clothes and provisions) that would stagger a modern porter.” He also says, “The Romans of the Republican age broke their fast with a biscuit and a fig or two, and took their principle meal in the cool of the evening.” Among the many things that have been offered as an explanation for their physical, mental and moral decline has been their sensuous indulgence in food which came with power and riches. Whatever other factors may have contributed to bring about their decline (and certain it is there were many factors) there can be no doubt that their excessive indulgence in the pleasures of the palate contributed its fair share.
? Herodotus records that the invading hosts (over five millions) of the Persian general Xerxes, had to be fed by the conquered cities along their lines of march. He states as a fortunate circumstance the fact that the Persians, including even the Monarch and his courtiers, ate one meal a day.
? The Jews from Moses until Jesus ate but one meal a day. They sometimes added a lunch of fruit. We recall reading once in the Hebrew scriptures these words (quoting from memory): “Woe unto the nation whose princes eat in the morning.” If this has any reference to dietetic practices it would indicate that the Jews were not addicted to what Dr. Dewey called the “vulgar habit” of eating breakfast.
? Dr. Felix Oswald says that “during the zenith period of Grecian and Roman civilization monogamy was not as firmly established as the rule that a health-loving man should content himself with one meal a day, and never eat till he had leisure to digest, i.e., not till the day’s work was wholly done. For more than a thousand years the one meal plan was the established rule among the civilized nations inhabiting the coast-lands of the Mediterranean. The evening repast–call it supper or dinner–was a kind of domestic festival, the reward of the day’s toil, an enjoyment which rich and poor refrained from marring by premature gratifications of their appetites.”
? A sixteenth century proverb says, “To rise at six, dine at ten, sup at six and go to bed at ten, makes a man live ten times ten.”
? Katherine Anthony informs us that the average English family adopted the habit of eating three meals a day during the reign of Queen Elizabeth. Andrew Borde, a physician who lived during the reign of Henry VIII, wrote that: “Two meals a day is sufficient for a rest man; and a laborer may eat three times a day; and he that doth eate ofter lyveth a Beestly lyfe.”
? “Barely two centuries ago,” says Major Austin, “the first meal of the day in England was taken about noon. Breakfast was an unrecognized meal and it originated in the practice of ladies taking an early dish of chocolate before rising. The ancient Greeks–the finest of people, physically and mentally, that ever lived–ate but two meals a day. The same was true of the ancient Hebrews and it is the custom of some of the best fighting races in India today.”
? The Countess of Landsfeld, writing in 1858, describes the eating habits of the English upper class of that time in these words: “After this meal comes the long fast from nine in the morning till five or six in the afternoon, when dinner is served.” This would indicate that the two-meals-a-day plan had survived in England up to that time.
? The adoption of three meals a day, in England, came along with the increasing prosperity of that country. Indeed it may be stated, as a general rule, that the quantity of food eaten in any country in all ages, has depended more upon their economic environment than upon their nutritional needs. Wealth and plenty have brought increased food consumption. In Ancient Rome these factors resulted in the eating of many meals a day, the eater taking an emetic immediately after finishing his gustatory enjoyment and then repairing to the vomitorium, after which he had another meal.
? Plutarch must have had such practice in mind when he wrote: “Medicinal vomits and purges, which are the bitter reliefs of gluttony, are not to be attempted without great necessity. The manner of many is to fill themselves because they are empty, and again, because they are full, to empty themselves contrary to nature, being no less tormented with being full than being empty; or rather they are troubled at their fullness, as being a hindrance of their appetite and are always emptying themselves, that they may make room for new enjoyment.”
? Dr. Oswald quotes a Rev. Moffat as saying that the Gonaque Hottentots are nowadays incommoded by a five day’s fast, and get along on an average of four meals a week.
? Major Austin says: “Experience has shown that in the past, two meals a day met the demands of appetite in all fully grown individuals–men and women, including expectant mothers.”
? Many people are like clams–mostly liver and stomach; or, perhaps I should say they are like worms–all gut.
? That all of these ideas are false has been demonstrated over and over again. Overeating by athletes and physical workers is one of the chief causes of premature ageing in these classes. Perhaps the most signal demonstration in modern times of the ability of the body to build and maintain Herculean strength and great endurance on little food, was given by Prof. Gilman Low when he established the phenomenal record of lifting one million-six-thousand (1,006,000) pounds in thirty five minutes and four seconds, after a period of training on one meal a day and less. This lift was accomplished by lifting 1000 pounds 1,006 times in the time specified. This feat was accomplished after two months of training on a diet on which the average stenographer would “starve to death.” For the first five weeks he ate one meal a day, almost wholly of uncooked foods, having meat only twice during this period. His diet consisted of eggs, wholewheat bread, cereals, fruits, nuts, milk and distilled water. During the last three weeks of his training period he ate only four meals a week; the last meal was consumed eleven hours before the lift. In fifty-six days of training for this lifting Low ate forty-seven meals.
? Mr. Low lost five and three-quarter pounds during the thirty-five minutes. Fifteen minutes later, he lifted one ton forty-four times in four minutes. It is particularly instructive that Mr. Low had previously attempted the big feat after training on two meals daily and had been compelled to quit, after reaching a little more than the half-million mark, due to sore distress and dizziness. See, also, Vol. III. (Here, Shelton obviously means Vol. III of his Hygienic System.)?
Gotta love John Rose! He knows how to save the world!
Yeah the Greeks and Romans didn’t eat breakfast because A. They slaves and the women did all the work, and B. “Dinner” was a four hour binge of fine dining, so yeah, you won’t be hungry for breakfast
Whenever I hear or think about restricting calories I think about the Saxon boys. Strongest men alive, if their diet schenanigans don’t inspire you to up that eating bar, nothing will.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/physicalculturestudy.com/2016/10/26/eat-like-a-saxon/amp/
i read eat for heat today, but im sort of confused now how to plan my eating and drinking lol im so used to having a cup of coffee in the morning and one at 2pm plus i drink water throughout the day. today i only sipped some water but i am so thirsty! also i ate a pretty good breakfast, 2 eggs with feta cheese scrambled in coconut oil, ezekiel toast with butter and jam. this has kept me full that its close to dinner and im not hungry yet. do i really have to force feed myself through the day to get my temps up? and the drink thing i need to know when and what would be good during the day. help! confused
Sharon, you might want to take note of your calorie intake, just to get a ballpark idea. To get your temps up, you’ll have to eat at least 20X your lean bodyweight per day in calories, and that’s if you are completely sedentary. Eating what sounds like about a 600-700 calorie breakfast and being too full to eat anything all day long after sounds way too low to me.
Matt, how do i figure my lean body weight? and multiply it by 20 to figure it out? im actually 25 lbs overweight for my 5’2 frame and having a hard time losing that now that im 50ish lol. i do moderate workouts during the week. Also im at a loss now of how and what to drink during the day since im always thirsty
At 5’2″ your lean bodyweight is probably around 110. At age 50, I’d say 2000 calories would be the absolute minimum amount you should consume if you expect your temps to increase.
I wouldn’t restrict your fluid intake so hard. I would put the emphasis more on eating more food, especially salty, carbohydrate-rich, calorie-dense food. When you do drink something, make sure it is sugary and either add a pinch of salt to it or drink with meals.
i wish i was 110-120 but ive slowly crept up to 142-45! I don’t have much of a sweet tooth and don’t really like sweet things that much let alone sugary drinks. so that makes if a bit rough because then i think sugar will make me acidic (cancer feeding) you know the drill. but i personally not a sugar drinking person. so what do i do about that? i wish you could just draw me up a meal and drink plan for the day to give an idea of what i should have. ive counted fat grams in the past and total carbs but not good with calories lol sorry for all the questions
I wonder what its like watching ready player one while starving.
Keto pet food, anyone?
https://ketonaturalpetfoods.com
Damn. I wish I’d thought of it first.
Matt: You could still make a big splash with your “Bullshitproof Coffee.” But, the window of opportunity will probably close in the next year or two. I’m actually surprised the fad has lasted this long.
Did survivors of the Holocaust become obese after they were released from the prison camps? I’ve seen some interviews with a few survivors and they looked like they were a healthy weight. I’ve read that the Allies controlled some of the initial refeeding so that survivors did not “eat themselves to death.” Food was probably still scarce in the war-torn areas of Europe. I would think the survivors just ate what was available and that their diets (and weight) normalized as food became more readily available to them. My question is, are we all over-thinking this? Matt has said “just eat the food.” Yet a lot of the discussion here is still about what to eat and when. Maybe obesity is caused by factors that have nothing to do with food intake, such as toxins, etc.
@Jeanne, those are my thoughts exactly! he says just eat and everyone is still confusing me about high carbs but low fat cuz it won’t burn fat if its high with the carbs and yada yada yada. just when i decide im just going to eat there are still all the little scruples lol! if ones metabolism is functioning normal everything should work normal is what i take from all this
Hey Sharon,
I’d say 20% of people who have pursued refeeding and have gained weight initially have gone on to lose all that weight and then some in the 2-3 years following. That leaves a lot of people fat wondering if there is any way to lose the weight. The discussion isn’t complete. It will never be complete. You won’t find any finality here.
I’m in the 80% who hasn’t lost the weight, but I did lose my desire to lose weight. I don’t even care anymore. I just eat food intuitively, exercise how I enjoy, and focus on more important things in life. That’s my finality.
I think weight will normalize itself after the re-feed, if people let it take its own natural course, as happened for those in the Minnesota Starvation Experiment.
Agree that obesity isn’t just about what you eat. At all. Most of one’s obesity proneness is set before birth and during the first couple years of life.
How We Get Fat
http://180degreehealth.com/how-we-get-fat
Jeanne,
I know the microbiome is the topic du jour today, but it makes me wonder about the difference in what foods people eat today and what was available 50, 100, or more years ago.
Also, as someone dealing with a chronic condition (including various, recurring infections), I don’t think there’s enough conversation about peoples’ health. A lot of commentary happens under the assumption that people are, aside from some extra weight, otherwise healthy. This is likely not true across the board.
It was once thought we needed to lose weight to be healthy, but I remember Matt flipping the script and suggesting that perhaps we need to get healthy to lose weight.
Processed Food and The Gut Microbiome
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8iJytRlOvfk&t=318s
“Food choices impact the health of the gut microbiome and may be responsible for recent increases in C. diff infection.”
What do you think?
Carl,
I think the microbiome probably plays a significant role in our overall health and agree that we must be healthy to achieve and maintain a “normal” weight. I used to have high hopes for probiotics. But after spending hundreds of dollars on them, I don’t see any difference in my overall health. In fact, after a round of topical chemotherapy left me with chronic diarrhea, probiotics and soil based organisms did nothing to improve my condition. What did finally help was activated charcoal and increased carbohydrate consumption. It may be that the dose of probiotics and SBOs needed to be much higher or I needed different strains. I think researchers still have a lot to learn there.
But you bring up a really interesting point about recurring infections. I’ve been wondering about how tonsillectomies in childhood affect a person’s weight in adulthood. I can find a lot of information that says that children will typically gain weight after a tonsillectomy but nothing that says what happens to them as adults. I’ve done my own totally unscientific study of friends and family who had tonsillectomies as children and 100% of them are overweight as adults. Even if a bigger and more scientific study showed such a correlation it could be that it isn’t the actual loss of tonsils that causes excess fat in later life but the chronic infections that led to the tonsillectomy in the first place. And maybe there is no direct cause and effect to be found. Maybe chronic infections, surgeries, medications, etc. simply play a contributing role.
It’s such a complex issue. So many people here are looking for an answer and Matt has repeatedly said there isn’t one. Lianda has made a number of comments about simply accepting your body as it is and focusing on other things to live a full and rewarding life. That’s what I’m trying to do.
I was a former WAPF chapter leader and cheerleader for the GAPS diet to help heal the gut. Boy was I off!
I saw how GAPS was actually helpful for children, but for adults, I never knew of a single person who got better. Not one. And not just personally, but also from all the FB groups and WAPF chapter leader forum or blogs or whatever. I read everything. It just didn’t make sense that we had to keep throwing more and more bacteria in the gut, but they never proliferated and intolerances (and overall health) got worse. Part of that was due to the high bone broth (water) and restrictive dieting screwing up the metabolism.
But the other part was MINERALS! I saw this study about the bacterial profile in soil being completely dependent on the mineral content of that soil. I met Dr. Garret Smith (initially through Matt’s podcasts)and we talked about this. He told me that it’s been known since the 60’s that MAGNESIUM is what seals the gut. GAPS throws so much bone broth at the leaky gut issue, but it just doesn’t have enough minerals, plus it slows down the metabolism. Magnesium plus several other minerals (depending on the individual, based on hair mineral analysis)creates the environment for the right bacteria to thrive.
Now that I got my minerals in balance, I can’t tolerate large doses of probiotics anymore. I just don’t need them like I used to, because I’ve got plenty. I can do small doses of sauerkraut, yogurt, kefir, or other cultured food without issue, but an entire bottle of kombucha makes me bloated.
So now when I teach nutrition classes (rare because my passions lie elsewhere), I talk about four fundamental things:
1. Eat real food, as nutrient dense and clean as you are able (still kind of WAPF but not to the extreme. Like, eat real natural fats but don’t go adding butter to everything)
2. Eat balanced for you. If you’ve been eating cheeseburgers for years, eat a salad. If you’ve been eating salad, eat a cheeseburger! You might have to swing to the opposite end of the pendulum before you find a happy middle.
3. Eat foods that keep your metabolism hot.
4. If all else fails, get your minerals checked.
Side note: Dr. G let me in on a little secret. Turns out, ALL of his patients do better on magnesium (orotate), potassium (orotate), beef liver capsules, and turmeric. He doesn’t automatically prescribe these, it’s just based on what comes back from the Hair Mineral Analysis.
I’ve actually found eating a ton of butter to be very satisfying and good for me. <3 Like a TON. probably 700 calories worth twice a day, of grass-fed butter, plus just as much soft goat cheese, on real sourdough. I am a freaking health-superstar on this "diet".
What about zinc? I'm surprised zinc isn't on that list.
So half your calories is butter?
Thank you for your comment and mention of liver. I despise liver, but have read of many and just read the how-to to make frozen liver ‘capsules’ that I can just toss down with a tastier beverage. Next time we butcher a steer, I’ll ask for the liver and do this for us and our sons’ households…so we can all be healthier.
Hi, Lisa:
Were your comments serious, joking, or half-and-half?!
:-)
Also, on an unrelated note, how do some of you folks have a profile photo and most of us do not? I’d like to add some fake pictures to my fake names!
Why does he prescribe the turmeric? Is it part of his anti-viral protocol? To lower inflammation generally? Do you know what dose and/or brand he recommends?
Lisa – Unless we’re re-feeding, I don’t think we need as much butter as WAPF recommends. I, too, LOVE some Kerrygold on sourdough, but since my metabolism has finally gotten faster/hotter, I don’t crave it as much anymore. It’s not all about calorie intake, but it is a piece of the puzzle. We do have to pay a bit of attention to it, if we’re getting far to little or far too much based on our individual bodies and health. When re-feeding, I ate an egg sandwich with cheese (and sometimes bacon) on butter-slathered sourdough every morning! Now, I just like 2 eggs with cheese and I’m good.
As far as zinc goes, I was on zinc as well, but not EVERY person needs it. It all depends on the results of their individual mineral analysis. There is no one size fits all protocol (for minerals or diet or anything really), so again, Dr. G never automatically puts everyone on magnesium, potassium, beef liver, and turmeric, it just turned out that nearly every person needed them and did well on them.
Ann B – I just buy the beef liver in capsules from Amazon. I find it especially beneficial during my periods! But I don’t take it every day, just days when I’m feeling kind of weak for no reason.
Anna – One of the reasons I love Matt AND Dr. G is that they both loving going down rabbit holes. Turmeric was once a favorite rabbit hole for Dr. G! He once wrote on his FB that if you google nearly ANYTHING with the word “Turmeric” and “Abstract” (“abstract” in the search will lead you to the actual studies, not just blogs) you’ll find that it helps with EVERYTHING! Why? Is it because it’s anti-viral or anti-inflammatory? Honestly, I can’t remember. I just try to remember to take it when I think of it.
hi Sharonimo – what a helpful, great post you wrote! I was wondering then, what foods DO make your metabolism hot, and how would I know if/when my metabolism WAS in fact hot? thank you.
bg – Have you read Matt’s books “Eat for Heat”? A summary (from memory 5+ years ago when I read it) was to eat a lot of everything, especially saturated fats, starches, sugar, salt, more sleep, stop exercising like a maniac if that’s what you were doing, drink only enough water/liquids so your pee isn’t clear, and be kind to yourself. There’s more but I forget! And we know when our metabolism is healed when we not only FEEL better (not cold anymore, not peeing every hour, hair stops falling out, anxiety wanes, libido increases), but when our waking body temps are above 98. BUT SERIOUSLY, READ THE BOOK, I’ve probably missed half of what Matt wrote!
Jeanne,
Thanks for the reply and sharing your thoughts.
Unfortunately, since I have one foot in the world of Lyme Disease, the topic of tonsillectomies did arise, at one point. My tonsils were removed, too, around the age of 10 or 11.
I’ve never been obese, but I was overweight as a child and into adulthood. At my heaviest, I was about 35 lbs. over what is likely an ideal weight for my height. These days, I’m probably 10-15 lbs. over an ideal weight.
But, that’s somewhat bogus, because ‘weight’ doesn’t take body composition into account. I’ve been sick for nearly five years and unable to exercise at all. So, I’ve lost weight — probably some fat, but definitely muscle.
Anyway, whether or not it was the infections, I’ve also got issues with digestion, and, I feel fairly certain, malabsorption. Via a real-time test to measure it, I was found to have low stomach acid.
I also have longitudinal streaks and ridges on my nails that some say confirm malabsorption. I think Chinese Medicine suggests the streaks could be heart-related, but I’m had a few Echocardiograms, Carotid Intima-Media Thickness test, and Coronary Artery Calcium Score, so all indicators are my heart is fine, thankfully.
Blood tests show low values for certain vitamins, minerals, amino acids, and other markers. Other values, such as Estrogen (Estrone, Estradiol, and Estriol) and DHT are high. High Carbon Monoxide, too. High HSV-1, HSV-2, HHV-6, Mycoplasma Pneumoniae, Chlamydia Pneumoniae, and others. Extreme, persistent fatigue — for nearly five years, now. Tinnitus, too. And, along with occasional cold hands and feet, I have thinning of the outer one-third of my eyebrows and a wicked, recurring sore throat at the FRONT of my throat — around the Adam’s apple. All thyroid labs are ‘normal,’ though.
But, before all this stuff, waaay back, I grew-up on a farm. I would run barefooted all over the place — in the pig pen (barf!), around the cows, chickens, sheep, ducks, etc., etc. I stepped on rusty nails (a tetanus shot followed), glass, manure, you name it.
I cut myself many times, broke a leg on a motorcycle, fell out of a tree, got kicked in the sternum by a horse, and had a M-80 firework explode in close proximity (a failed attempt to throw it at the right time) numbing my hand and causing ringing in my ear. There were many bites from ticks, mosquitoes, horseflies, and wasps, too.
In the military, I endured other system assaults, such as removing all four (perfectly fine) wisdom teeth, amalgam fillings, and various vaccines. Shortly after all this, I began having debilitating migraines. Today, 30+ years later, I still get them, though they’re better managed through a cleaner diet.
Later on, while I was still in the military, I had numerous chemical exposures via skin and lungs. Within a year, or so, of this exposure beginning, I became more and more sensitive to all chemicals. I could no longer wear cologne or scented deodorants, be around perfume, or tolerate scented candles, diesel exhaust, cigarette smoke, air fresheners, or any other artificial chemical. If I get even a slight smell of the exhaust of a clothes dryer, it will give me a headache and make me nauseous — especially if one of those disgusting dryer sheets are used. That sensitivity also persists to this day, 30+ years later.
So, if there’s a point in all of that (there’s more, but that’s already too much), I guess that we all endure lots of assaults over our lives. Those assaults can accumulate and become additive. At some point, we cross some threshold, and something breaks. We get sick, have a food sensitivity, develop a chemical allergy, or whatever. Or, if a system doesn’t ‘break,’ then perhaps it operates less efficiently or less optimally.
Lots of things get into/onto our bodies, via our:
* Diet (chemicals and additives in processed foods, but whole foods can have pesticides, waxes, bacteria/poop, and possibly viruses and who knows what else)
* Air (vehicle exhausts, off-gassing of furniture, rugs, foam mattresses and pillows, sofas, computers, industrial factories, cigarettes, etc.)
* Water (pharmaceuticals, bacteria, heavy metals, etc.)
* Skin (swimming in dirty/untreated bodies of water, slathering personal care products on our skin and under our arms, being around others — especially in hospitals, etc.)
* Blood (via injecting things/drugs into our bloodstream)
My feeling is a person would need to be 100% optimally healthy, these days, to deal with all of these insults effectively. We have all this ‘stuff’ going in/on us and how much is being effectively dispatched? How much is lingering behind? And, for anything remaining, what’s it doing? What’s the impact?
Not having symptoms doesn’t automatically mean we’re healthy.
So, I couldn’t agree more with you about the complexity of things. One complex system layered upon a different complex system layered upon another.
In the end, maybe none of this really matters. Perhaps I should just try to find a way to be happy and eat ‘reasonably’ — whatever that means.
I’ve spent so many years “intellectually interfering” (to quote Matt’s books) with my diet that I’ve come to a place of not knowing if something is “good” or “bad” for me.
Perhaps even worse, I no longer find any joy in food or eating. I dread each time I get hungry, because I have to figure-out out what’s the “best” thing I can choose, given the options I think I’ll be able to choke-down.
I understand why Rob Rhinehart’s ‘SOYLENT’ product appeals to people. I would rather just drink some colorless, odorless, tasteless liquid that has all the nutrients my body requires. Eating has become an obligatory burden…like putting gas in the car. Just stop, fill-up the tank, hurry-up, and move-along.
The final funny/sad truth is I’m sitting here, at 1:20 AM EDT, on a Friday night / Saturday morning, writing this, and I just finished a bowl of…oatmeal.
How lame…on so many levels. :)
Amazing comment Carl!
Carl,
I’m no counselor, so take what I have to say with that in mind. Maybe Lianda will join in here. I think you have to just start eating some food that is not “the best thing for you.” Eat a piece of cake or something that would taste good to you and not cause a negative physical reaction. Also, there are ways of bringing joy to the experience of eating simple foods like oatmeal. You could share it with a friend. Or, if eating alone, set the table nicely with some fresh flowers as a center piece and play some music. Take your oatmeal or whatever outside with you and enjoy some nature with your food. In most cultures I know of meals were/are enhanced with socializing and other sensory experiences. Too many of us today in the western world are tempted to choke down something barely tolerable while we work or do something else “productive.” Eating should be pleasurable and I believe that is why Matt advocates eating highly palatable foods.
My thoughts are with you.
Carl, whoa I get it! To this day, I can literally take ANY FOOD and lecture on all the reasons it’s good for you AND all the reasons it’s bad for you. I actually used to do that when I was a WAPF chapter leader! CRAZY! CAN WE JUST EAT FOOD AND STOP OBSESSING?!
For me, one of the many things Jesus has saved me from is this obsessive eating disorder. I’ve had to switch my focus to things that are true, noble, right, pure, lovely, admirable, and praiseworthy. But I can easily get sucked back into the trap of food and body obsession, which has zero reward. Solidarity, my friend, I’m with you!
Thanks, Matt. As Dean Martin once told Frank Sinatra: “It’s your world; I’m just living in it.”
Hi, Jeanne:
Thank you for taking the time to reply. Your advice is wise and makes sense.
I need to get out of my own head for a while. I’ve heard this numerous times from therapists. Too much left-brain, they say. And, I agree.
It’s part of a longer story, but I think that a lot of my intellectualizing things comes from my upbringing and childhood, given the environment of lack and loss.
I’m always trying to find the “right” answer to every problem (or, health question), so I don’t end-up repeating the same mistakes my parents made. They ate and drank whatever they wanted, but, unfortunately, passed-away very young. So, I feel obligated to make better decisions.
While I *do* make better choices, I often worry they’re not good enough. In my mind, every meal is an opportunity to move toward health or further-away from it. Only, due to cognitive dissonance, I know it’s not quite that simple.
Is it better to force myself to eat Brussels sprouts and be miserable -or- eat that piece of cake you mentioned and temporarily enjoy the taste and later feel guilty? Rhetorical question. The stress about certain foods may be worse than the foods themselves.
Assuming sugar, butter, milk, and eggs are healthy (I’m not saying they are or aren’t), then why are they okay separately, but not when combined into, say, a doughnut? Again, rhetorical question.
My aforementioned physical (and, mental) ailments are likely further complicating matters. But, I also know that I’m not likely to ‘think’ my way out of the situation, since it’s my thinking that’s really the root of the problem.
I’m not sure where that leaves me. Maybe action without thought is needed? Just drive over to my local doughnut shop (they do make froufrou doughnuts – local ingredients, organic, no preservatives, made daily by hand, using the tears of celibate monks who meditate in silence, blah blah) and get one…or, three. That could be a slippery slope.
Anyway, thanks for your advice!
Best,
Carl
Carl — I don’t know if you’ve already tried these things, but I thought I’d offer up a couple of suggestions, in case they might help you.
1) there’s a guy who runs a successful clinic (in London, I think) who believes that Multiple Chemical Sensitivity and ME/CFS are rooted in chronic overarousal of the amygdala and insula, which causes multiple physical problems — and that you can retrain those automatic responses. He sells a home-study program that’s pretty inexpensive, I think. He had ME/CFS himself for 3+ years and has been completely cured for several years now.
https://www.guptaprogramme.com/mcs-multiple-chemical-sensitivity-treatment/
2) re: protein malabsorption, what seems to be helping me is eating a couple spoonfuls of sauerkraut right before eating, taking some HCL w/pepsin with every meal containing 20+ mg protein, and drinking raw milk with and between meals (and making some kefir with it).
I hope something in this will help, even a little bit :)
Thank you, turtlegurl! I appreciate your help!
I’m familiar with Ashok Gupta, but only barely. In May of last year, I had found and downloaded several of his YouTube videos.
But, like I tend to do with diet-/health-related things, I squirreled them away and promised myself to circle-back and investigate closer. But, I never did. Instead, I keep searching for new things, keep archiving more information, and my backlog gets bigger and bigger.
Thanks to your reminder, though, I will actually take some time to watch his videos and review his website. I quit my job, a few months ago, so I’ve got plenty of free time…at least, for a little while.
Speaking of my amygdala being aroused (sorry, this blog does that to me), around the same time I found Ashok Gupta, I found another program that may be similar. It’s called the Dynamic Neural Retraining System (DNRS) and was created by a lady named Annie Hopper.
Here’s the site: https://RetrainingTheBrain.com
Some of the video testimonials are pretty amazing. People claim to have used DNRS (in whole or in part) to help resolve CFS, MCS, Lyme Disease, and more.
As for my digestion/malabsorption issues, I’ve never tried sauerkraut. That is, I’ve never had it for any reason. But, I’ve read good things about it. From what I understand, we might get billions of beneficial bacteria from supplements. But, with fermented foods, some have said we get trillions of beneficial bacteria. So, that’s an easy thing to try.
I had been taking HCL w/Pepsin, like you do, but got worried I might be doing some harm to my stomach. Even with meals containing little protein (and, even zero animal protein), I was taking four capsules per meal with no burning.
As you likely know, according to Steve and Jordan at SCDlifestyle.com, their suggestion would have been for me to continued increasing my capsules until I had some burning and then back-down to one less capsule. Then, as the burning sensation reappears, keep backing-down by one capsule until I get down to zero.
Is that the protocol you’re following? Do you have any lines/ridges on your nails, too? Or, any outward signs of malabsorption? Do these pants make my butt look big?
Carl — do the pants make your butt look big? Um, well, it’s not the pants….hahaha
Re: the HCL — a very smart and knowledgeable badass nutritionist I was talking with recently said that that’s not a good rule-of-thumb, i.e. you don’t always get burning when you have enough HCL. She told me to start with 2 capsules and, at the max, go to 4. She also said to only take HCL with a protein meal containing at least 20 mg protein. Yes, I have the vertical ridges and am also missing the moons at the base of my nails — those should come back, but it will take time.
Re: sauerkraut, supposedly the raw and fermented kind is the *best* for you.
I think Ashok maybe mentions DNRS, but I’m not sure. I know he talks about some other approaches and how his is similar or different. I can’t remember if I’ve checked into DNRS before. I do the same thing of always researching tons of stuff…I read so much that I sometimes can’t remember if I actually read a particular thing or just intended to in the maze of info and thoughts! Thanks for the link.
*** We have so many comments on comments, I’m not sure if I’m responding to the right post to get my comment where it belongs! ***
Thanks, turtlegurl, for the tip to start with two HCL/Pepsin capsules and not to exceed four — only taking with a protein meal containing 20 mg of protein or more.
After thinking about your comment, it makes sense that we wouldn’t always get burning, when we have adequate HCL. If we did, even healthy people (with normal stomach pH) would have a burning sensation. So, thanks for that tip. I’m glad I stopped taking HCL capsules, since I was doing it incorrectly.
Regarding sauerkraut, raw and fermented. Check!
It’s not my pants, eh? haha Actually, I wish I had some padding back there. It’s often uncomfortable sitting on any non-cushioned surface.
I guess the ass is always greener on the other side.
Hello Matt,
I’ve been looking for a recent update on the metabolic zone. My husband and I really want to try this health direction but are hesitant. We have both dieted on and off all of our adult lives. We are both obese and of course, have not had any luck in the past. Would it be possible to chat with you further about this direction and to get some clarification on a few things I’m not completely understanding? Thank you so much!
Hi Brittany,
I haven’t taken calls in ages unless it’s dealing with someone with a very severe eating disorder. But I’d like to make an exception and speak with you and your husband. Please email me to set that up at sacredself@gmail.com
Awesome!
Thank you, Matt!
Carl,
I used to be just like you. I commented earlier that I used to only eat fish eggs and vegetables. Everything else seemed dangerous under the assumption that anything other than perfect eating (which to me was low carb) made me a lazy fat failure destined to get diabetes and become super morbidly obese. If I ate a piece of fruit I envisioned myself as a slack chubby sack of shit, not feeding my lean mass with adequate protein, and would try to be even stricter again the next day. I turned down social occasions because I couldn’t eat any of the food options, I lived in misery. The only thing that helped me (and its not easy to do) was to push myself to eat what I actually was craving when I was hungry. Anxiety would fly up when I did it, but over time I got more and more comfortable with it, and only now I truly see how crazy I was. It’s not even the food that is the sad part, it’s what the restrictions do to you and how it makes you limit your life. Today I woke up hungry and made oatmeal with milk and cocoa, added peanut butter and strawberries, and had a protein bar (I genuinely like this particular protein bar, it seemed appealing to me). when I got hungry at lunch, I got sushi (never would have done that a few years ago, the rice would make me panic) and fried chicken with veggies covered in soy and ginger sauce.. The weather is hot today so I made a fruit smoothie with about 5 types of fruit later in the evening, and then had yoghurt nuts and seeds with berries just now, and some crunchy peanut butter put the jar. Loads of carbs! A day like today a few years ago would have me depressed and anxious, now I’m just satisfied and grateful I can eat what I want, when I want. It’s no easy feat, but pushing yourself to try the very foods that you fear is what will help you. There is no one food that will instantly make you fat, sick, old, blah blah blah. But there’s plenty of food you’ll eat and be like “dayyyyum If eating this is wrong, I don’t wanna be right”. Don’t fight your body, because the truth is we have less control over our lives than we like to think. You can eat as healthy as you like and die young, so you may as well aim to stroke the balance between pleasure with food and caring for your body while you’re here.
Eree, PREACH!
I knew a man who was wealthy enough to eat the best, healthiest foods on the planet. HUGE garden (that his household employees tended). Best doctors money could buy. Then around Christmas this past year, he started feeling sick. Went to the doctor, was diagnosed with Candida, then after a few more tests, was diagnosed with Acute Myeloid Leukemia. Immediately checked into the hospital, with the best doctors, and died 10 days later.
Some of the most anxious, fearful people I’ve ever met aren’t those who have been abused or have been through some traumatic experience. They’re those obsessed with “healthy” food!
I refuse to live in fear anymore.
Hi, Eree:
Thank you for that epic post. One of the many things I love about this blog is we (you, me, Matt, all of us) can usually relate to many of the things we share. We’ve traveled many of the same paths to get here. So, when you read what I wrote, I know you get it. And, I think I can relate to what you’ve shared, too.
Despite my not being 100% sure about what to eat or not eat, fortunately, I still eat a variety of things. I may suspect it’s not the best or ‘healthiest,’ but there’s not too much that I restrict. I’m just sorta burned-out with food. I eat only because I have to. I eat white rice, lots of fruits, plenty of potatoes, beans, corn, etc. I eat some chicken and a little more beef (still grass-fed/-finished, though – old habits die hard) and rarely pork.
If I want cookies, I buy them. Granted, they’re often gluten-free (for no good reason, other than habit) with minimal ingredients. Whether fortunate or not, I don’t crave a massive amount of junk food. If I want potato chips, I get ones with just plain sea salt or sea salt and cracked pepper and fried in avocado oil. If Lay’s chips were fried in better oil, I’d buy them more. I like plain ol’ Frito’s corn chips, but not corn oil. But, again, if I have a craving for them, I’ll get them and deal with it.
Overall, though, I’m more inclined to eat plain the 365-brand of Corn Flakes from Whole Foods Market with flax milk. It’s got crunch, a little sweet, and a pinch of salt. I actually don’t crave a dozen doughnuts or an entire yellow cake with chocolate buttercream icing. A few bites, sure. Maybe even a whole slice. But, not too often. I used to eat a fair amount of chocolate and ice cream, but rarely have those, either.
For me, once a food is out of the normal rotation of things I eat, I lose the craving for them. Lately, I’ve been eating a gluten-free cinnamon raisin bread with fresh-ground almond butter and a mixed berry jam. That’s not bad, but, again, most foods are just kinda ‘blah.’
Back in 2009 thru about 2013, I was that annoying person who asked a restaurant server 50 questions about the food — is it gluten-free, is such-and-such cooked with oil? If so, which kind? Can I get it without oil? Can you cook it in butter? You certainly know the drill.
I remember going on a first (and, last) date with a nice woman who questioned my odd dietary habits. I figured, of course, she didn’t ‘get it,’ because she was a ‘regular’ (i.e. unenlightened) person. She was actually a Pharmacist and quite smart. And, for what it’s worth, thin, active, and appeared to be healthy, eating whatever she wanted. Of course, now I realize I was the unenlightened one!
Thankfully, Matt helped to lift much of the dietary fog that cluded my brain.
I still have issues, of course. I think it’s from all the reading/watching/listening to Caldwell Esselstyn, Joel Fuhrman, Nathan Pritikin, Walter Kempner, Neal Barnard, Pamela Popper, Jeff Novick, Alan Goldhamer, Doug Lisle, Michael Klaper, Joel Kahn, T. Colin Campbell, and Michael Greger, to name a few.
Matt has read, from what I recall, some 400+ books on the topics of diet, health, disease, lifestyle, etc., so he’s read all I have and more. But, I’ve only read a fraction of a fraction of what he’s read. But, I know there is something to Matt’s books and information. The comments on this blog, alone, bear that out.
The fact that he can assimilate all that information and come out the other side and report there’s still no magic diet, nutrient, or food does make me feel better. I don’t think I ever had anxiety about food. At least, I never had an anxiety attack when thinking about a food or eating it. I do have anxiety issues, otherwise, but that’s another story.
While I never had an eating disorder, the stupid Paleo/Primal/Low-Carb/Etc. diets did make me a disordered eater. (From what I understand, those are two different things.) And, I still fight some of that thinking, though I don’t really restrict things like I used to.
Now, I often think “Well, who knows?” and eat things anyway. I do usually avoid fried foods, as that seems prudent. I suspect eating asparagus is likely better than eating a cookie, so, given the choice, I’d select the asparagus. But, I also know I can actually have both.
I watched my parents eat and drink whatever they wanted, as I grew-up. You know how some folks say I’d rather die young and happy than live long and be miserable. Well, that’s what they got — one dead at 50 and the other at 49. I’ve lived past the age of one and am about to live past the age of the other.
I don’t think they were thinking of anyone other than themselves, when they were living as they liked. Certainly not each other nor their child. So, in addition to considering my own health, I have others to consider, too.
Plus, my parents weren’t so cavalier with their attitudes, while being hospitalized in the end stages. That’s where people usually say “If only I could go back and do things better” rather than “I’m glad I lived the way I did.”
But, hindsight is usually 20/20, as they say. Plus, there are no guarantees. So, maybe it’s all a crapshoot. I certainly have no idea.
Again, I value and appreciate your comments. I’m glad you seem to be doing so well. I wish you the best.
Yeah Spackler, I do wonder about your joyless relationship with food. I can see that having two parents that died young has been a scary thing for you, but I do suspect that it has caused unnecessary food phobias, and to live a joyless existence with food may very well be holding you back from reaching the next level up in your general health and overall well-being.
But, I might also be wrong about this. Perhaps a pristine diet is the path to true health, and we’ve all just missed it because we restricted macronutrients or didn’t eat enough, which takes any benefits you might get from a perfect diet and completely flushes them down the drain, as calories and carbs trump clean, nutritious eating every day of the week and twice on Sundays.
I’m honored to have created a safe haven for open discussion regarding nutrition and health, and to have connected with all of you and see you benefitting from this site’s existence. Long live the D!
“Long live the D!” haha! You’re the OG Big-D playa… Welcome to the goodie blog. (I just watched that, again, last week.)
Seriously, though, I really do appreciate your books, this blog, and all the commenters. There’s a lot of good information, heartfelt comments, and real-world experience. I would take all of that over a PubMed study, any day.
You know, the thing of it is, I wasn’t worried about my diet, lifestyle, or certain foods or macronutrients, until I started ‘trying’ to be ‘healthy.’ You’ve written about this and I know others can relate, too.
Now, maybe I should have been worried. Or, at a minimum, perhaps I should have been a little concerned. I smoked and drank, for a few years, but quit both at the same time, around 27 years ago.
Otherwise, until my early 30s, I never bothered thinking about what was in my food. I ate whatever. Doritos, Taco Bell, McD’s, candy, cookies, chocolate, truckloads of Cinnamon Toast Crunch cereal (like two HUGE bowls, right before bed, and I would sleep like the dead!), Slim Jim’s, burgers, pizza, fries, onion rings, and on, and on.
Now, I did suspect that wasn’t an ideal path, but I don’t recall consciously drawing any parallels between my behavior and the fate that befell my parents. That came about a decade later. I thought that stopping drinking and smoking was pretty much sufficient.
Despite eating all the junk I did, up until my early 30s, I was rarely sick and my body temperature was like a blast furnace in a steel mill. I was about 20-30 lbs. heavier and not active beyond what was required to walk to/from my car or walking around the building at work. I was in the DFW area, at the time, and hardly anyone walks anywhere.
It was in my early 40s that a friend told me about Sisson’s ‘Primal Blueprint’ book. That’s when I boarded the train to Crazyville.
Of course, like you wrote at the opening of this blog post, all diets work — until they don’t. So, for a while, things seemed great. I wasn’t even really following Sisson’s dictates, other than avoiding all grains and legumes and most fruit. (Beware the ‘Carbohydrate Curve’ and the “Steady, Insidious Weight Gain” LOL!) Instead, my casual interpretation of his book meant I could eat all the butter, bacon, eggs, meat, cheese, nuts, and chocolate I wanted. And, so I did.
One month, I spent over $50 on dark chocolate. Of course, that’s not difficult to do, when dark chocolate bars are $5.00 or $6.00 each. Another month, I spent over $50 just on bacon. As a single person, I was spending $800 to $1,100 a month on food.
Sure, I’d have some token asparagus or Brussels sprouts (cooked in coconut oil and anointed with Kerrygold butter), but I ate lots of bacon and eggs (one day, I ate a dozen eggs, cooked in bacon grease), grass-fed beef burgers and hotdogs (with like 1g of sodium each), loads of nuts, etc. Many of us have probably been there.
I was perplexed that, despite all my daily exercise, I couldn’t lower my body weight/fat. I mean, I was eating all those healthy eggs in bacon grease, a pound of bacon alongside, and several spoonsful of the magical coconut oil. What could be the problem? (Duh!) Some lipid markers were good and others went rogue. It was a mixed bag.
Being skeptical that I might be in a cult (because, as you know, diets, cults, and religions have a lot in common – and, Robb Wolf is called “Paleo Baby Jesus”), I started reading more and more of those against Paleo, Primal, Low-Carb, WAPF, etc. So, that’s all the previous folks I mentioned: Barnard, Greger, Klaper, et al.
That’s when my mind split in two and the cognitive dissonance began.
Should I believe all the Paleo people who, for the most part, looked fit and buff? (Who, also, were mostly young and had never wrecked their bodies for many decades.) Or, should I listen to all the skinny vegan experts? (Many of whom, by contrast, looked gaunt and hollow.)
Would pastured eggs give me choline or coronary disease? Would bacon give me protein or prostate disease? Would beef give me CLA or a TIA? Despite everyone (allegedly) looking at the ‘science,’ no one could agree.
This is when I tried to identify foods that all sides could agree were “bad,” so I could restrict them. But, this wasn’t easy. So, trying to find foods that all or most could agree were “good” seemed like a better idea.
Of course, this came-down to vegetables, as it usually does. People squabbled over starchy vs. non-starchy, but that seemed less concerning to me. I always loved fruit, so this was something I never planned to completely eliminate.
Eventually, after falling ill, I thought it was likely because I’d been eating too low carb. So, I went far in the opposite direction and ate lots of carbs — mostly whole food carbs like beans, rice, corn, potatoes, etc. All the stuff I always loves and ate growing-up. Unfortunately, this didn’t fix me. But, with several more years of perspective, I still think it was the right decision.
A year after falling ill with whatever I had (likely walking pneumonia), I was bitten by an infected tick and things really went sideways. As crazy as the ‘regular’ health nuts are, the Lyme folks really seem to take it up a notch. They’re deeply entrenched in “Clean Eating” and lots of restrictions. Perhaps those things do make a positive difference in some, but, for me, it was the opposite. Like you’ve long suggested — a poorly-functioning body needs more fuel, in order to run all the systems. I now believe that chronic disease and restrictive dieting are a bad match, generally speaking.
At this point, I no longer believe in a magical diet, food, macronutrient, micronutrient, or phytochemical.
I try to be supportive of others, but, when I hear the word “Superfood,” I chuckle internally — sometimes thinking of David Wolfe.
When someone wants to tell me about the miracles of their ketogenic diet (after three days), I just nod and give some words of encouragement.
Or, when it comes to fasting: “Oh, you bought a 300-page book to explain how to not eat? That sounds cool.”
I just wish food held some sort of appeal to me, rather than being a necessary burden filled with conflicting feelings choices, and, often, regret over the choice. Perhaps if I can improve my physical health (fatigue, infections, and other things), maybe my mental health will improve and some desire and joy will return.
Until then, I’ll just keep pressing-on. It’s all I know how to do.
There is, however, one silver lining in this giant, dark, depressing cloud. It’s made me realize how good I did feel, despite any extra weight, before things went south.
I realize how many things I either took for granted or simply ignored. On hikes around the Arboretum or in the surrounding mountains, I was rarely present. I was often listening to a podcast (health-related, of course) or music and not listening to the birds, the crunch of the gravel under my feet, or the wind blowing through the trees.
I hiked to the top of waterfalls, but it was always about the destination and not the journey. It’s clich?, sure. But, it’s still true. Everything was a means to an end. And, when that end came, there was no celebration or appreciation. It was simply something to be crossed-off a mental list. Check. That’s done. What’s next?
While I was proud I could crank-out 50 military-style push-ups in one shot, I felt bad I couldn’t do more. I could hold a plank for two full minutes, but not three. My body, while a bit doughy, was strong. There was little I couldn’t do. I could lift myself off the floor with only my legs. I could walk, hike, or bike for hours. But, it seldom seemed enough.
These days, my perspective is much different. Now, when I sit on the small back deck of my apartment, I feel the sun on me and I’m grateful. I pay attention to the flowers that are blooming on the bushes and trees. I watch the birds and really hear the sounds they make. I remind myself to breathe deeper and enjoy things as they are because they will always change. I don’t argue with people. I’m more patient and understanding. I listen more. It’s no longer about me.
It’s highly unlikely I would have had ANY of those realizations, had I not become unwell. But, I’ve had the last five years to work on these things, despite my having exactly zero intention of doing so.
So, I got that goin’ for me…which is nice.
I feel another blog prayer coming on. This one’s for you, Carl :)
And now, I sit me down to eat
To devour rice and stir-fried meat
It looks good, smells good, tastes good too
But I start to wonder, as I chew
Is it too many carbs or protein or fat?
On info-overload, I don’t know where I’m at
Should I read more? Or maybe read less?
This might be a case for Elliot Ness
Nobody know what ?normal? means
Low-carb? Dairy-free? Just rice & beans?
Oh, to have the bliss of ignorance back
Where I didn’t worry what my diet my lack
Or which food might give me a heart attack
Orthorexia: it’s the new black!
But when I can enjoy my food
It puts me in a better mood
And who knows? That enjoyment may be
As important as Vitamins A or C
In the interest of having a little more fun
I’m gonna polish off a big cinnamon bun
Don’t know if it’s right or wrong or dumb
Just know over-thinking has made my mind numb
And if I make some big mistakes
At least I got to eat pancakes
Ramen
That is FANTASTIC, turtlegurl! hahahaha!
You’ve got some serious skills!
Thank you for the dedication. What I wrote earlier today, regarding my crush, now goes double! :)
Raw-Men
Thanks for the kind words, Carl — and the double-scoop crush ;)
“Raw Men” works well in the song “It’s Raining Men”. (It’s raining men — hallelujah! It’s raining men. Raw men.)
LOL @ “Bullshitproof Coffee”. Yeah, Matt — you could totally clean up on that, dropping in ads all over the web and doing YouTube vids on how to make it. I would definitely buy that coffee, whatever the price, just to protect myself from the onslaught of BS that’s constantly being piped in from every direction.
Long live the D!
Raw-Men is actually something quite different Carl. It’s a band of fruitarian comic book superheroes that can run really far but are completely impotent and have saggy lizard skin.
I’m pretty sure that “It’s Raining Men” was written with them in mind. In fact, the refrain contains the words “impotent” and “saggy lizard skin”. It’s a great song to rock out to in the car.
RAMEN!
I think it was Turttlegirl who said something about wondering if she would have been better off having never reading anything about nutrition. I’ve often wondered the same thing. Every member of my huge family is thinner and in large part healthier than I am. They don’t eat exactly everything they want, but they’ve never even heard of grass-fed beef. They eat meals like roast beef, mashed potatoes, gravy, carrots, a small side salad with bottled dressing, and a crescent roll from a tube that you bake at home–and maybe a dessert. I haven’t eaten like that since I left for college 42 years ago! I’m thinking that’s my problem. I’ve been trying to improve on that by getting into minutia like how the beef was raised, whether the vegetables were organic, and what kind of fats were in the salad dressing and rolls. It seems like my pickiness has not helped me one bit.
I’m not sure where my diet obsession originated. Carl has mentioned that his parents ate and drank whatever they wanted and died very young. So he wanted to improve on that. My parents have always eaten as described above. My dad is 89 and still rides a bicycle daily! My mom has dementia at age 87 but is in good health physically. It doesn’t seem like their food choices have hurt them at all.
I keep going back to Matt’s advice to just eat the food.
Matt, I have a question on the low fat approach. Is this possible for women? I only see men succesful with this. I went vegan fruitarian to improve my digestion, eating 4000-5000 cals of mostly sweet fruits bit got too thin and lost my period for 2 years. Lots of sweetened dairy desserts were my refeeding favorites. Now my period and breasts are back, but my breasts are hyper sensitive the second half of my period. I think I should cut back on dairy fat, but am unable to restrict anything for the moment. Started refeeding two years ago and not yet ready to stop…
I’m not Matt, but I remember that pain and that magnesium seemed to stop it. I googled ‘magnesium and painful breasts’ and that is what several websites recommend for that half of the cycle.
I don’t think it’s any different for men than women. I suspect that fruitarianism is a very different animal from a low-fat, mixed, cooked food diet. You don’t absorb the calories from raw, fibrous food as well as cooked, and to get so little protein (and so little of the more anabolic amino acids), is another issue. The absurdly high water content is probably also a huge problem, and then the lack of salt. Too many problems to list. Fruitarianism absolutely obliterates me in the limited trials I’ve given it.
It’s also probably best not to continue with a really low fat diet long-term once you’ve gotten lean. The moment you’re even close to being underweight you should stop.
Eating low fat or very low fat meals that are well-salted and consist of a ton of starch and animal protein is completely different. A 1,200-calorie fruit meal would make me freezing cold. A 1,200-calorie salty fish and rice meal is extremely warming.
Hey Matt,
Any reason you’re into fish lately? Trying to cut down on the particular aminos in land animals? Or doing low fat fish to cut down on PUFA? I know Dr. G isn’t into fish because of heavy metals and other contaminants. Thoughts?
Just trying out Zach’s high-calorie, ultra low-fat approach with fish vs. doing it vegan. Fish may very well be full of contaminants, so maybe not the best choice. I had some asthma problems come back recently, so I prefer using fish over low-fat dairy. Asthma is already improving dramatically since I lowered my fat intake substantially at the beginning of April. I prefer shellfish and have been eating lots of scallops as well.
Hi Matt – had one more question on the ultra low-fat approach, if you wouldn’t mind sharing your thoughts.
I was thinking of maybe trying the ultra low-fat approach, but I wasn’t sure if it would be the best thing for me. Basically, I have been refeeding for the last two months. My under-eating over a period of a year and a half took me from a BMI of 26 to one at BMI 21 (no purging, mostly just not eating as much as I should have). At BMI 21 I experienced a lot of the slow metabolism/low-thyroid symptoms. Luckily I found your work. In the first month of eat the food refeeding, all of the symptoms were reversed. I gained a lot of the weight rapidly, of course. Now, on my third month, the weight gain is really slow. I’m around BMI 28 now.
I was thinking of maybe trying the ultra low-fat approach, to maintain high calories, while just reducing fat intake to, well, lose fat. I have been eating a whole of fat during this period of refeeding (whole milk especially).
But I was reading about some of the damage that anorexics experience in their body, especially to their organs. I wasn’t full blown anorexic, but I suppose there is still some damage left to recover, since I can only sleep around 6 hours maximum straight without waking. Temperatures are high (auxiliary always 98.3 or higher during the day, can even peak to 99 F after a starchy dinner), and pulse is around 80. Imperfect sleep is only symptom I have left.
Do you think I would be hindering full recovery by going to the ultra low fat diet? Or do you think it’s still possible? Of course I will be shooting for at least 3500 calories. Cutting calories is cut out o’ my life.
Gotcha. I’m trying to dabble a bit with low fat as well. I feel my body doesn’t love dairy, but I really like it and it’s way easier than cooking fish/meat. So sticking with the dairy for now. Have to work on getting cals up.
Additional context: 29 years old man, no dieting experience in the past, no drugs/alcohol, otherwise in good health.
I remember Masterjohn saying something like the selenium off sets any heavy metal contamination from seafood. Don’t know if that’s true or not, probably not if you are eating tuna and shark steaks all day but shellfish I bet is ok. Scallops are so high in taurine that they will make you invincible anyway.
I’m liking the experimenting!
Asthma?
Clearly, you have leaky gut and need a combination Gluten-Free, Phase I GAPS, Autoimmune Paleo, FODMAP restrictions, Low-Oxalates, Lectin Avoidance Diet, Raw Vegan Juice Cleanse, Coffee Enemas, and Contrast Showers Before 4.
I’d also suggest contacting John Demartini and see if he can help raise your vibrational level with some positive visualizations, crystals, and/or Quantum Field Therapy.
If all that fails, there’s always the Cyclic Ketogenic Butter Diet.
Don’t forget dry skin brushing, far infrared saunas, chakra balancing, nasal irrigation, supplements for your MTHFR gene mutation, and detoxing the excess copper you no doubt have in your body.
Oh, yes! We can’t forget that MTHRFKN MTHFR!
Actually, you listed a bunch of the things the Lyme Disease folks talk about. They say was must detox! As if it requires thought and action on our part. Because, you know, our bodies can be lazy and not pay attention.
“Hey! Yes, liver, I’m talkin’ to you! Stop lollygagging and get back to work! Don’t make me invoke Andreas Moritz’s ‘Amazing Liver and Gallbladder Flush’ to expel those several thousand ‘stones’ I know you’re hoarding!”
Whew! All this typing is making me dizzy. Earlier, I expelled a bunch of mucoid plaque. So, I’m probably just lightheaded from the toxins getting stirred-up.
Of course, it could also be due to my calcified Pineal Gland. I’m currently drinking 52 glasses of distilled water per day, to help decalcify it. Then, I should be able to perform Astral Projection, just like I read about in OMNI magazine, back in the 1980s!
Oh yes, of course! How could I have forgotten the liver & gall bladder flush? If you don’t choke down several cups of olive oil with lemon a couple of times a year, those organs will be like a ticking time bomb, waiting for the perfect opportunity to destroy your health. Plan several hours —- better yet, the whole day — on the toilet. You’ll lose a lot of important minerals, of course (and a day of your life). But it’s better than trusting your liver.
Did you say 52 glasses of distilled water per day? I’ve heard you need at least 100 if you want to decalcify your pineal gland.
And, of course this is just common sense, but always wear magnetic bracelets and toe-spreaders. Failure to do so will result in asthma, 100% of the time.
Haha. You guys are funny. You missed the one TRUE secret to health though. Drinking your own piss.
Ooooooh… I’m supposed to drink MY OWN piss!
You’ll have plenty of opportunity (i.e. all day) to collect your urine while you’re sitting on the toilet during your liver & gall bladder flush. “Collect” isn’t even the right word, though, as you’ll just drink it immediately. Feel the vibrant health.
Well as someone who has done 44 liver flushes and is rapidly reversing the ravages of serious adrenal dysfunction after the birth of my son, I can tell you that as funny as it sounds, it ain’t no con. I’m forever grateful I gave it a go, and 2 years in, I have my life back. And before people say it’s placebo effect- it’s not, as I had tried for 10 years before that to recover from chronic fatigue and had tried everything under the sun, including just eating the food (which I still do to this day). Believe me, I had plenty of opportunities to experience the placebo effect given every woo-woo thing I tried. Nothing ever brought my temps up, no matter how much food I ate. I suspect when you’re harbouring multiple infections which are trashing your adrenals and thyroid, then temps aren’t going to shift much. Now I am much warmer than I used to be, since I suspect my viral/bacterial/fungal load is less, due to flushing. So, laugh at it all you like, but if you’re suffering from long-term chronic illness, it’s a f$%*ing godsend.
Elizabeth, could it of been the action of flushing the Bowels that made you feel better? I read a pretty prolific book by Kellogg of the cereal fame who’s main message was to poop 2-3 times a day for health. It seems putrification is probably a huge role in sickness. Also a coffee enema seems to be a much healthier alternative to a top down liver flush.
The only way to confirm that actual ‘stones’ were being flushed is to (1) have ‘before’ and ‘after’ ultrasounds performed, and (2) have the expelled ‘stones’ analyzed. What are the chances that someone would still be expelling ‘stones’ after 44 flushes? (Rhetorical question.) Anyway, some doctors *have* analyzed the ‘stones’ that people expel, after drinking oil, and, not surprisingly, it was saponified oil. If a person feels better afterward, that’s fine. But, the procedure is not without risk, as someone could lodge a stone (real or saponified oil) in the bile duct and end-up in the hospital having emergency surgery.
Elizabeth’s testimony and Zach & Carl’s responses had me rushing to google immediately to look this up. I, too, have known people who have done these flushes and felt much better! So I’m curious Elizabeth, do you think it had to do with your body just expelling more junk? Had you tried an epsom salt flush or coffee enema and not gotten results? And if indeed it is just saponified oil, what else would be the reason for feeling better? We can’t ever dismiss someone’s personal experience.
Anyway, here’s what I found in googling, and what is MOST interesting is in the comments, not the article itself! https://www.curezone.org/forums/am.asp?i=1679567
Hi, Sharonimo:
For what it’s worth, here are just a few of the resources that I reviewed about the subject:
https://www.upwellness.com/debunked-the-gallbladder-flush
http://words.tev.net/?p=324
http://elderandsage.com/blog/the-myth-of-the-livergallbladder-flush
https://youtu.be/0tOvl_ePTRM
I don’t doubt that people are passing something, during those flushes. My questions, however, are: (1) What are they passing? and (2) Where were they created?
I don’t doubt that Ms. Wells (http://www.naturallywells.com) felt better. She said she did, so that’s good enough for me.
There are people on both sides of the debate that claim evidence to support that flushes DO work and DO NOT work. So, I don’t pretend to know “THE” truth — assuming there is one single truth for everyone.
However, as previously stated, I don’t think the procedure is without risk. If a person wants to perform a flush, that’s their right to do so. I would just hope they would consider both sides of the debate.
Personally, I’m more inclined to consider the results of diagnostic imaging and the analysis of expelled ‘stones’ by doctors, versus anecdotal stories from people who don’t have much to support their theories except a belief.
It doesn’t mean the latter group is wrong. But, I’m not willing to risk emergency surgery to have my gallbladder removed, due to following the advice of someone who may or may not be making a correct association of cause-and-effect. But, again, to each their own.
My hope is simply for people to be healthy, feel good, and not cause harm to themselves or others.
@ Carl: well, you CAN drink your own urine (more readily available), but I like to buy O.P.P. (Other People’s Piss) at Whole Foods. Get down with O.P.P., yeah you know me!
+turtlegurl: hahaha – We must be about the same age, given the references we share.
I haven’t seen O.P.P. at Whole Foods, so it must be a special order item. I’ll only buy bottles of O.P.P. that have asparagus spears in them!
As a side note, I’m about halfway through the audio version of Penn Jillette’s book “Presto! How I Made Over 100 Pounds Disappear and Other Magical Tales” and I find it REALLY funny. He narrates it and that makes it all the better. Anyway, in the book, he refers to Whole Foods as “Asshole Foods.”
Now that I see that last part in print, it evokes some new mental imagery — which I’ll not share. You’re welcome. ;-)
Carl: O.P.P. is in the refrigerated case, right next to their bottles of Bulletproof Coffee. I’m doing a liquid fast right now, using just those two things. I’ve never felt better.
(Groan) It probably won’t be long before that ludicrous idea becomes a reality. Somebody will write a book/blog about the amazing benefits of drinking O.P.P. (e.g. how it cleans plaque out of your arteries, decreases inflammation, and lengthens telomeres — significantly more than drinking your own!).
But you don’t want to just ask your friends and neighbors for their urine, like some sort of philistine, for godsakes. No! You are going to go to Asshole Foods and spend good money for it — and be rewarded with the added health benefit of self-righteousness. Besides, the most effective O.P.P. is the non-shared DNA type — which just makes sense, when you think about it.
You might even get inspired to write your own blog on how to make O.P.P. smoothies, fermented O.P.P. , and fun O.P.P. recipes for kids!
Who’s down with O.P.P., on 180D? (thought I better change the refrain a little, so that Naughty by Nature doesn’t come after me for copyright infringement)
It’s all about those telomeres Turtle!
turtlegurl,
You’re definitely one of the funniest people I’ve (n)ever met! Seriously!
I believe YOU are the one that needs a blog to highlight your humor and writing!
Before it vanished without explanation, I listened to the “Evil Sugar Radio” podcast and read the blog. The hosts, Scott Kustes and Antonio Valladares, would roast many of the trends in the Diet/Health blogosphere.
You would be great at filling that void.
@ Carl: thanks for the kind words.
It would be fun to do a blog or something along those lines. You’re funny as hell. Maybe we could be partners in crime ;)
Carl — and anyone else who might care: remember earlier on this blog when I was laughing/groaning at the ludicrous idea that someone will eventually try to sell us O.P.P. (Other People’s Piss)? Well, I just learned that the ancient Romans beat us to it.
According to National Geographic and other sources, the emperor Vespasian (A.D. 69-79) had the urine from public urinals collected and used as an ingredient for several chemical processes (because of the ammonia in it). It was used in tanning lotion, laundry detergent, and tooth whitener. The buyers of the urine paid the tax.
And why would people have paid for O.P.P., instead of using their own urine?? Because we never value what’s in our own backyard — or in this case, bladder. If O.P.P. is good enough for brushing your teeth with and rubbing on your skin, so is your own.
That is like SO crazy that you mentioned other people’s piss. I was just working with my web developer on creating a site where people can auction off their own urine called P-Bay.
In other words, instead of getting down with O.P.P. get down with Y.O.U. (Your Own Urine).
Hey, turtlegurl,
Wow, I’d never heard about Emperor Vespasian (VesPISSian?) and how the Romans used urine.
The first thing I thought of was the Mel Brooks movie “History of the World, Part I.”
https://youtu.be/JGfXiIXTpE0
Tanning lotion, laundry detergent, and tooth whitener. That’s crazy. Have a golden shower and enjoy the resulting golden tan.
You’re quite the encyclopedia of interesting facts.
Carl — maybe Mel Brooks knew this fact about ancient Rome? At least we don’t have to pay urine tax, like they did.
All I know is that I’m about to save a whole lotta dough on detergent, toothpaste, and water for toilet flushing.
Who’s down with Y.O.U. Yeah, you know who!
P-Bay…haha. Good one.
Check-out this, turtlegurl…urine therapy is alleged to cure CANCER. Among other grandiose claims.
https://www.pulse.ng/lifestyle/beauty-health/7-unbelievable-health-benefits-of-urine-therapy-id7800102.html
I recall Justin from the “Extreme Health Radio” podcast talking about urine therapy. At the time, I didn’t know what he was talking about, and, since he didn’t define the term, I thought “Oh, he must be drinking a lot of water so he can pee a lot and flush his system.” Little did I know what he REALLY meant.
Bottoms-up!
Matt: I like the P-Bay idea — partly because it will cut into (Ass)Whole Foods’ profits on O.P.P.
Carl: thanks for that link. I really want to see someone do the urine + potato starch paste on their scalp to treat hair loss. It reminds me of that Seinfeld episode where George orders a “bald cure” from China, but whenever he puts the paste on, everyone complains about the smell and he always ends up washing it off.
I’ve been hearing/reading about people’s “urine therapy” testimonials for a long time now but just can’t see myself getting into that. Maybe I don’t really understand and am missing out. But, aesthetics aside, our bodies work hard to get rid of urea. Why put it back in?
Recently, I overheard a guy talking about having gone “off the grid” for awhile and drinking his own urine during that period. He described it as “not nearly as bad as things I had to do when I was in prison”. Yet, despite his rave review, I’m still not persuaded to start drinking urine — mine or anyone else’s.
Hey, turtlegurl:
This quote from your previous comment:
?…not nearly as bad as things I had to do when I was in prison.
haha – If was wasn’t forced to drink someone’s piss, he was probably having to toss their salad.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5dwN9TsK4lo
Given the choice of the two, I’ll take the former. :-)
Last night, I poked fun at John Demartini. Today, I get an e-mail notification about The Fasting Summit 3 that starts tonight.
http://fastingsummit.com/fs3
Guess who is featured as a speaker on Day 1? Yes, John Demartini!
I think the Universe is trying to bring us together. Maybe my calcified Pineal Gland will be transformed into a crystal and my Third Eye will have holographic vision into the Quantum Field.
Haha. That’s amazing.
Have you ever seen any proof that the liver can hold on to these stones? Why then wouldn’t animal livers ever have any deposits? I tried finding pictures of videos of a dissected human liver with stones and found nothing. The liver is a filter, I don’t see how it could have any space to build up stuff like this.
I’ve checked out that upwellness article and it fundamentally misunderstands what is expelled through a liver flush- yes it’s very hard to expel gallstones. Most of what exits the liver are biliary ‘stones’ which are made in the hepatic ducts and are the non-calcified precursor to gallstones. The liver can hold 1000s of these.
It is important to note that drs can’t see biliary stones, only calcified stones show up on ultrasound.
Each flush can release anything from a few stones in single numbers to hundreds- it can take many many flushes to dig out all the old accretions of bile and cholesterol that have gathered there over a lifetime, so many more flushes are usually required than Moritz’s initial estimate.
The saponified/olive oil/soap stone theory just isn’t the case. I have expelled many small stones just through using the preparatory softening agent malic acid, before any oil has been ingested.
Furthermore most of my flushes are not successful- this may be for many reasons- I have fungal overgrowth and this can cause biliary obstruction (also well known)- also sometimes a flush pushes matter further down into the cystic and bile duct but doesn’t push it out. If the soap stone theory was accurate, with the same ratio of ingredients being a constant each time, why am I often expelling nothing at all other than loose stools? I’ve done 8 consecutive flushes where no stones were released… hugely frustrating, and indeed symptoms got worse because of the increased impaction of stones in the liver- I got colder, more anxious, more constipated, more achy, couldn’t sleep- everything got worse.
I finally released the matter and all those symptoms above improved again.
Clinical studies show that it is perfectly possible for a stone to be released spontaneously. How much more easily can this happen when it is being expelled by a strong bile contraction into ducts that have been lubricated and relaxed by oil and Mg sulphate.
BTW that website address no longer works. I am no longer practising as a nutritionist but I give out my info for free now on my facebook page (www.facebook.com/naturallywells) and a new YouTube account where I am going to post updates about my progress (Naturally Wells). I’ve also recently incorporated red light into what I’m already doing with flushes.
In the last 2 years of flushing I have found:
– reduced PMT
– no more panic attacks, racing thoughts and anxiety
– better sleep
– better mood, temps up more consistently- hitting 37C in the evenings more often
– gynae symptoms that used to blight my life (thrush, BV) disappeared after about the 6th or 7th flush and never came back
– better daytime energy, no ‘crashing’ (I recently went out to my first rave in 10 years and lasted until 4 in the morning- I think this is pretty amazing!)
And objectively, I have been able to reduce from 50mg hydrocortisone in staggered doses throughout the day (for severe low cortisol) to about 8-10mg once a day in the AM. Fully expecting to be able to quit it entirely in the next few successful flushes.
I don’t think any of that would happen just from ‘flushing the bowels’… I also practised regular enemas anyway, so that was never an issue, and I never got these benefits from enemas.
Believe me I was once a sceptic. But do you think I would continue doing them every 3 weeks if they gave me no concrete results? Neither would the 21 000 members of the Facebook group I belong to (Liver and Gallbladder Flush for Optimal Health)- if it didn’t work or it was a swizz, then how do you account for all their testimonials?
Believe me I was once a sceptic too. I’m not an idiot, I did my research. I’d been trying to get well for at least a decade before that, and this is the ONLY thing that is getting me there relatively fast.
How is your fungal overgrowth being diagnosed?
I’m glad your health has improved so much, Elizabeth. Ultimately, that is what matters the most.
Hi Carl and Turtlegurl –
Speaking of Bulletproof Coffee- have you seen a recent photo of Dave Asprey? Looks like his bulletproof coffee has
been not working the way he claimed! He needs to update his photos….
https://stresseatingsolutions.com/fat-diet-guru/
Hi, Lianda:
Thanks for the link. I’ve not seen any photos or information from Dave Asprey in a long time.
Even when I did follow many “health” blogs and podcasts, I didn’t really connect with Asprey or his information. At the time, I wasn’t sure if he was correct or not. There was just something about him, his claims, or something else that caused me to mostly ignore him. I felt similarly about Tim Ferriss.
Maybe it was the whole “hack yourself” promise. I have issues when a person thinks they’re smarter than their body’s own innate processes.
Since your blog post mentioned JP Sears, do you have any idea what eating philosophy he follows? I’ve only watched a few of his very funny videos, so I don’t know much about him personally.
Sincerely,
Carl
Re: the Fasting Summit — I’m amazed that I can still be temporarily mesmerized by these type things, with all their seductive promises of perfect health (not just physical, but mental and spiritual too, of course). It’s all so shiny. At first glance, some of these people look really healthy. But some do not. And others just look crazy. And then I see one of their bonus gifts: “6 Lucrative Ways to Create a Soul-Satisfying Career as a Certified Juice Therapist Guide”, and I almost wish for a giant asteroid to hit the planet.
Yes, I admit to almost wishing for asteroids WAY too often.
Dammit! My last post never appeared…
In it, I made fun of the “Juice Therapist” title, invoked some George Carlin, and professed to wishing for a giant, flaming meteor to strike my house and end my suffering. Just imagine all that content written better and funnier. The muse is no longer upon me.
Speaking of signs that a planet-wide extinction event is warranted:
Vinny From ‘Jersey Shore’ Is Now ‘The Keto Guido’
https://www.yahoo.com/lifestyle/vinny-apos-jersey-shore-apos-160000324.html
https://www.instagram.com/ketoguido
Jesus, Joseph, and Mary on a Donkey — he has Eric Berg and Stephen Phinney listed on his Instascam account. Thank God we have these enlightened celebrities to bring us the truth. Because, you know, the government, and stuff.
Chicxulub, take me away.
Skinny Guinea Vinny the Keto Guido! That makes my day.
Speaking of keto, I just got an e-mail saying the keto summit is starting soon. That’s a whole week of people saying how good a keto diet is for you. Two to three people each day. The minute I saw what the keto diet was, I knew they were idiots. We used to keep goats and it is bad for them to go into ketosis. My thought was, if it is bad for them, wouldn’t it be bad for us? That can kill a goat if not fixed. I would think it would have the same effect on us.
“Vinny From ?Jersey Shore? Is Now ?The Keto Guido?”.
Isn’t that one of the Nostradamus predictions for 2018?
Thanks AnnB and Matt. It’s true, after a Thai meal I am almost feverish. Great for libido too and makes exercise easy. Almost as good as chocolate ;-)
Sharonimo/Matt/anyone that can help, I have been rereading “Eat for Heat” and am curious about the water drinking. I consider myself recovered and quite healthy in many ways, but I drink an abnormal amount of fluids. It’s not even habit, I seem to be constantly thirsty. I thought maybe I was diabetic, but when tested my bloods were normal. I can honestly buy 2 Litres of water and down it- and then a glass or two, and maybe even a cup of coffee. what I find interesting is I suffer from poor circulation in my hands, and whenever I have tried to drink less water I feel like death (I feel like I’m hungover, groggy,dry skin, headachey, no energy) and always wind up caving and just drinking what I need. People constantly comment that I drink so much. I pee like crazy, even when I have tried to reduce the amount I drink, and getting the colour right has been difficult. Sometimes it’s been clear when I’ve been actively cutting back and feeling dehydrated, other times it’s yellow but I’m peeing like crazy because I have drank so much. Also, I had to get a colonoscopy last week (fun!) and had to be pretty much fasted beforehand. I hadn’t checked my temps in a long time, and when fasted it was at 96.8F. Should I force myself to drink less and suffer through the discomfort? I find adding sugar and salt to drinks disgusting, and it doesn’t help that I like black tea and coffee.
“Should I force myself to drink less and suffer through the discomfort?”
In this case I think probably, yes.
Eree, some of what you’re describing actually sounds like symptoms of a slow, cold metabolism, so yes, less water, but I would also really consider looking at mineral testing. It also sounds like you may be low on at least magnesium, but before you start chugging that, get your minerals tested. It’s cheaper to get tested so you know what you need than waste money throwing stuff in your body that you don’t.
Yes you can over-stimulate your thirst response- and it might be that you’re losing too much water because you’re low on salt/electrolytes. I seriously used to over-dose on water and always felt horrendously thirsty. Started gradually cutting down and adding unrefined sea salt to the water that I did drink… the 2 things in conjunction worked pretty quickly and now I have it about right, and am drinking significantly less plain water than I did a few years ago
I recently heard of living on Prana where you don’t eat or drink anything and live off of air and light. So…the fasting has gotten out of control as you predicted.
Also known as breathatarians
“Living on Prana” gives me a mental image of them living on a different planet (wonder which solar system?)
Sure would cut down on the ol’ grocery bill.
I’d love to meet a breathatarian, just to see what kind of physical and mental health they’re in. If anyone is heading to Prana, can I catch a ride?
You didn’t really frame a question but beer is definitely fat promoting, mainly because of how highly estrogenic hops is. No wonder all the hop heads out there are sporting beer belly’s and moobs. All alcohol is counter productive to fat loss because it interrupts normal bodily functions. All alcoholics I know don’t eat much. They seem to not have an appetite and drink most of their calories, that will keep you skinny. Russia and France are both high alcohol consumption and low BMI though.
Here’s something that I’ve been wondering about. I haven’t seen any fat alcoholics living on the streets. Mostly all they do is eat junk food and drink.
Alcohol is all sugar. Of course living on the streets is very stressful, and I’ve never seen a person who looks very healthy drinking out of a paper bag on the streets.
And, I rarely read anyone’s comments that include reference to drinking alcohol and its effect on weight. I have a feeling that most of the people who post do not abstain completely from alcohol.
Thoughts?
You didn’t really frame a question but beer is definitely fat promoting, mainly because of how highly estrogenic hops is. No wonder all the hop heads out there are sporting beer belly’s and moobs. All alcohol is counter productive to fat loss because it interrupts normal bodily functions. All alcoholics I know don’t eat much. They seem to not have an appetite and drink most of their calories, that will keep you skinny. Russia and France are both high alcohol consumption and low BMI though.
The kind of alcoholics I’m thinking about are getting most of their calories from drinking. And it can be quite a lot of calories! And they stay on the thinner side.
I assume that people whose drink of choice is not beer don’t get a beer belly, and they too, stay on the thinner side?
How does alcohol consumption fit in with RRARFING? Is the liquid consumption a factor? Do drunks have low body temperatures – tend towards thyroid conditions? (has anyone actually investigated anything like this- doubtful).
Even some beer drinkers wont get too fat if they stick to the lower hop lower calorie beers like coors light. Eventually though it will catch up. Your body will stop burning fat while it deals with alcohol so if you are drinking for a major part of your day, staying skinny will be tough. There are definitely studies done on the detrimental side effects of alcohol but I don’t think alcohol is incompatible with health. Again the French are those paradoxil people who drink quite a bit, mostly wine and aperitifs, high sugar and calorie drinks and they also eat a lot of fat and carbs in general. I think lifestyle has a lot to do with it. Exercise especially. If you walk and bike instead of drive everywhere, chances are you will stay skinny. Some Russian populations are very long lived and they say it’s the vodka that keeps them healthy. Might be the antibacterial nature of spirits.
Russians have notoriously high degenerative disease rates. Much higher than the U.S. http://www.worldlifeexpectancy.com/cause-of-death/coronary-heart-disease/by-country/
France much lower. It’s hard to speculate about various regions and their health. For example, some of the countries with the highest diabetes rate have the lowest heart disease rate. Good luck figuring that out Gary Taubes!
From what I’ve read alcohol suppressed body temperature (even though it makes you feel warm).
I suspect those who aren’t eating anything but just drinking alcohol are not getting enough protein, and turn catabolic from it. I remember seeing some rodent study that found, with low enough protein intake, they could eat way above the normal calorie intake without gaining fat. The study authors speculated that there is some built-in mechanism to keep eating until sufficient protein is consumed without gaining fat, so that an animal could survive off of even extremely low protein foods.
But who knows really? Alcoholics living on the street also probably burn a ton of calories just regulating their body temperature out in the elements 24-7.
I remember back when I was reading vegan authors like Dr. McDougall, they mentioned that homeless people on autopsy we’re usually found to have squeaky clean arteries since most of their calories came from alcohol and so they were on a low fat diet by accident. To them this proved the fat–heart disease link.
As for me I was never much of a drinker. However, if we accept Lustig’s idea that fructose (especially HFCS) is almost identical to ethanol and is handled similarly by the liver… Then I was basically an alcoholic lol drinking 2 litres of Coke a day (NOT diet!) For over 20 years. Before Coke I was a skinny but muscular kid (mesomorph/ectomorph mix), high energy, into sports, but after Coke addiction I shot up to over 300 pounds and health went to shit. If you ask me, Coke may not be the only factor, but it was definitely at the crime scene with a smoking gun in it’s hand.
I personally think some people should drink more.
Garrett Breedlove: You’re just going to have to trust me about this one thing. You need a lot of drinks.
Aurora Greenway: To break the ice?
Garrett Breedlove: To kill the bug that you have up your ass.
I just went to an exhibit on Prohibition yesterday. The exhibit included a brief review of drinking habits in the U.S. prior to Prohibition. I don’t remember the exact figures, but basically people on average drank twice as much alcohol before Prohibition compared to people today. And it was more of everything–beer, hard cider, whiskey, gin, rum, and other high alcohol concoctions.
There wasn’t much obesity in those days. I know you can’t really draw any conclusions based on that fact, but it is interesting.
Hi Matt,
What do you suggest for improving bowel movements?
Around an year back, my bowels were excellent during refeeding period, with me pooping out one huge poop every single time. However, I blew up with lot of water retention and then into a habit of exercise early morning. However. I think the lack of sleep sort of threw my digestive system out of whack. I now suffer from reflux time to time. Bowels movements are terrible, unlike my glory days and I alternate between bit of constipation and bit of diarrhea. Never a clean passage like before.
I don’t restrict on food and generally eat a lot. My Temps are good. I am increasing my sleep and my stress has come down these days. Still wondering if I have any advice on rectifying my bowel movements and going back to days where I used to just pass one large nice poop everytime
I don’t know how this would fit into OMAD — or anything else, for that matter — but I just have to give these people props. It’s a 0.5K race for charity, complete with free pint of beer BEFORE the race, a coffee and donut stand at the halfway point (where you can also smoke), and a VIP pass that allows you to skip the running and just ride in a 1963 VW Bus. These are some peeps I’d like to know.
https://www.sbnation.com/lookit/2018/4/26/17285238/0-5-k-fun-run-rest-stop-smoking-beer
As a former Texan (DFW, Houston, and San Antonio), those are my kind of people, too. I’d totally go for the VIP pass and enjoy a doughnut (or, three) while riding in style.
Here’s another guy that’s up our alley. He ate sugar, saturated fat, drank alcohol, hardly exercised, and lost 30 pounds:
https://twitter.com/SeanBissell/status/453581058722631681
Here’s a good one featuring Robert Lustig:
https://twitter.com/SeanBissell/status/364419950250688512
Check some of his other photos, too.
Good stuff! Love the picture of Lustig.
Re: the 0.5K race — I don’t smoke anymore, and I’m not into donuts or coffee, but I’d do all those things (including the pre-run beer) if I were participating in that event. It’s easy to get overly serious about everything… I think it’s good to have events like this once in a while, to say “F*** it all”. You know, for balance.
Wondering if anyone here listens to Joe Rogan. He had a doctor on named Peter Attia. Joe Rogan unfortunately has had so many guests on suuporting low carb diets he is truly convinced this is the correct way of eating. At the very least he says whole food sources are better…Anyway they briefly discuss diets and metabolism during the show. Attia speaks about nutrient partitioning and says he used to consume massive amounts of calories when we was younger with no ill effect. He says as he got older his ability to handle carbs suffered. He mentioned having clients fast to to do “metabolic resetting” of some sort..He mentions a dude that was severely obese and fasted for 382 days (1965?). The man supposedly kept the weight off after 4 or 5 years but I havent looked into what happened after. I figure he mustve been eating very low calorie and had severely down regulated his metabolism in doing so…The Doctor does do lower carb sometimes now as well as intermittent fasting. His focus is longevity and what not, but it is a shame because he really sees how youth and faster metabolisms handle different macronutrient ratios. They also discuss the “afternoon nap carb effect” and Peter says he doesnt remember having energy flucuations when he was younger eating a lot, but now he feels much more focused not eating all day..I totally understand why it sounds so enticing. Keeping relatively lean, increased focus and energy stability yada yada. Why can’t more people/professionals/doctors see how it is all about context. I thought this would be nice to share. A Doctor that fasts and maybe keeps his carbs lower, but only because he sincerely feels better doing so but at the same time he acknowledges that SOMETHING happens(he speaks of hormones and something else that makes muscle for inclined to utilize energy) to people and they just do not operate the same. He was a super duper swimmer at one point too, consuming tons of,carbs for his training. Nice fella at first glance.
I’ve heard enough from Attia to last me the rest of my life.
He and Gary Taubes started the Nutrition Science Initiative (NuSI), years ago, but Pete quietly disappeared from the business.
These days, he’s into some boutique healthcare business where he works with private clients who have lots of money to burn. Last I saw, he was into wearing devices that monitor some biomarkers (blood glucose and/or insulin, if I remember correctly) 24 hours a day.
I recall Pete saying he got him M.D. degree, but never practiced medicine.
Here’s the 382-day fasting study, if you’re interested:
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2495396/
Okay…So he’s not a good dude? Rofl. He sounds sincere and smart but what does that mean these days? So many conflicting views on everything these days what a freakin mess! Super smart dudes disagree on things so what the flip do we know ahhhh. Thanks for the response.
Hey, Bob Dean Metal Dude:
Pete might be an okay guy. I’m not really sure. I have my own personal opinion, but it’s just that — an opinion. There’s no doubt he’s very intelligent. He’s a great speaker, too, and very charismatic.
(But, then again, so are many cult leaders! “Hi, I’m Jim Jones. You look thirsty. Would you like a tall, cold glass of Kool-Aid?” haha…)
Pete used to have a blog called The Eating Academy, but it looks like that information has been moved-over to https://peterattiamd.com, if you want to check-out his writing. A lot of it can get very technical.
While I mentioned I’d heard enough of him to last the rest of my life, that would also apply to Taubes, Lustig, Teicholz, and most other diet gurus.
Just an hour ago, I returned from Chipotle with a massive burrito bowl full of white rice, black beans, pinto beans, and mild salsa. My neighbor was outside talking to a friend of hers — a big, buff-looking guy. I chatted with them a bit and then made a comment about his arms and said something like “Man, you sure look fit. Obviously, you know a lot about diet and exercise.” (that was the set-up) “Maybe you can give me some dietary tips.” His response was “You gotta eat high-protein and low-carb.” In my thoughts, I rolled my eyes so hard, I was able to see my cerebellum. Outwardly, though, I responded “Oh, really? Go low on the carbs, huh? Thanks for the advice.” I said goodbye, came inside, and ate that giant, magnificent burrito bowl.
Thou shalt not avoid carbs. So it is written, so shall it be done. Ramen.
@Bob Dean: he filled his pocket with NUSI money and bought Porsches and Ferraris with them. He’s a con artist. NUSI has already failed twice. If he was honest he would have stopped preaching the Gospel of Low Carb, but it gets him $$$$$.
P.s. do you remember roughly where in the podcast he mentions the stuff about handling carbs better earlier in life? That’s pretty interesting coming from Attia.
“I recall Pete saying he got him M.D. degree, but never practiced medicine.”
Jeez…
Pete he got *HIS” M.D. degree…
I r a gud riter
Carl: I saw the ‘he got him M.D. degree’ as sarcastic, and not incorrect. Ha!
You’re my kind of person, AnnB! :)
I’m hoping Matt will make the high-fat/ketogenic hysteria the subject of a future blog post.
I just watched The Magic Pill documentary. That was pretty hilarious. There was a whole segment in the movie bashing Ancel Keys for cherry-picking data showing that low fat diets were awesome, then they proceeded to blab on with a cherry-picked presentation about how low-carb diets are the shizzy mcnizzy for every illness ever. Which, I agree they are. For about 6 months!
Thanks for mentioning “The Magic Pill.” I just added it to my Netflix streaming queue.
I’m always up for a documentary to tell me about the secret, hidden, ancient knowledge that BigPharma, BigAg, the FDA, the AMA, and the Illuminati are trying to keep from us! Because, you know, population control and stuff. Oh, I can’t forget Nibiru, FEMA Camps, HAARP, and the Georgia Guidestones.
I’m embarrassed to admit that I have knowledge of all this stuff, but it fits right in with my adventures in Paleo, Low-Carb, etc.
Several days ago, I ran across an article about Chef Pete Evans by angry blogger James Fell. I just realized that’s the same chef featured in “The Magic Pill.”
http://www.bodyforwife.com/paleo-chef-pete-evans-has-gone-to-the-dietary-derp-side
I’m just 15 minutes into “The Magic Pill” and the group of Aboriginal people are being taught that giving their children Coca Cola for breakfast isn’t a good idea. They are being counseled about the problems with “Carbs.”
I realize I should watch the rest of the show, before being too harsh, but considering Nora Gedgaudas was just featured, it seems pretty obvious where this is heading.
How about crowdfunding for a 180D documentary? I would be honored to make the first donation. Perhaps we could get John Cusack and Val Kilmer to participate?
@carl: a fellow connoisseur of conspiracies I see lol. I’ve realized that diets, cults and conspiracies are the all the same thing. People will make stuff up to explain the seemingly/currently unexplainable.
@Skeptic: haha — Indeed, I was a member of the Conspiracy Club, for sure. I still have my tinfoil hat, as proof! You make a great point about Diets, Cults and Conspiracies being the same thing. In fact, I might be able to tie-together all three. Just this morning, while watching Alex Jones, I looked-down at my gluten-free toast and saw an image of David Koresh.
I will say though, that I have been deeply saddened by the state of “conspiratorial thinking” in recent years. I do think much of the way the world operates is VERY conspiratorial, just due to the way financial power exerts control over governmental policy, education, research, public opinion, news, and beyond. I just spoke to a woman who was formerly married to someone very high up in the mafia over the weekend, and she revealed that the mafia actually determined pretty much everything as it pertained to building the Alaskan pipeline. These kind of conspiracies are 100% real and pervasive to all facets of society. But recently the “conspiracy business” has been so lucrative that there are people spreading complete absurdities trying to turn every little thing into an outrageous, far-fetched conspiracy. Maybe I’m being overly conspiratorial in my thinking, lol, but it seems so absurd as to almost be intentionally used to discredit real and absurd conspiracies alike. If you question anything these days you’re associated with Alex Jones, aliens, pedophile colonies on Mars, lizard people, and flat earthers. “Nutjobs” are giving smart people who question things a bad reputation!
@Matt: yeah it’s been suggested that higher ups intentionally use the conspiracy theorist label to silence people. If that’s true, then it’s definitely working for them.
I’ve also heard that most of flat Earth theorists are just internet trolls taht are just doing it for lols and to see how many people they can bamboozle.
He actually did a pretty heartfelt talk on TED about the contempt he FIRST felt for obese people with diabetes. https://www.ted.com/talks/peter_attia_what_if_we_re_wrong_about_diabetes
And then he realized his main demographic that he can sell to are the obese, so he had a change of heart lol. Awwwww
Hi Carl, :)
I am still semi-retired at least ( laughs) . Thank you for all your nice writings about me. I appreciate it and feel the same towards you. This is my March of 1995 “return from baseball’ LOL !!!!!!!!!
I just want to arm all of you with the information to take down James Fell, CarbSane, Guyenet and the like. It is truly a shame what happened with Guyenet. In 2010, he had reasonable interviews, he has turned into a ( willfully likley) real physics illiterate guy.
As mentioned before, “energy” is not anything itself…It has NO EXISTENCE in itself. It is a toally abstarct mathematical FICTION we humans made up, nothing more than a number we can compute- it is only for convenience and tidy bookkeeping, a very useful number in equations. The reason energy does not have to come from somewhere or cannot be destryoed is because it N-O-T
S-T-U-F-F AT ALL in the first place, as physcist Peter M. Brown noted at the Naked Scientist Forum. Mentining this ALWAYS , without fail gets me deleted and banned from all sites. Yet, physcists know this! These salesmen are abusing and misrepresenting physics.
The “laws” of physics are not at all restrictions upon the nature of matter. Nor are they EVER mandates from human
imposed upon Nature. Nature can do WHATEVER it wants! Rather, they are restrictions upon the way physcists can write their equations. These “laws” are not laws at all- they are principles- they are totally tentative and fallible ( as David Gross and Richard Feynman noted) – These “laws” are ONLY OUR BEST GUESSES, as Feynman worded it, that have been put through the sieve. The goal is to put them through smaller hoes and catch what laws are wrong. The observations are not the laws either, as Feynman said,.
Calories, joules, ergs, kilowatt hours, NO DIFFERENCE- NONE- ALL THE SAME. We have all these ABSURD numebrs of units, all INVENTIONS. We do not need ANY more inventions- Feynman HISMELF hated hop we have all these inventions to measure this number energy- USE ON COMMON UNIT. NOBODY eats calories . NOBODY eats kilowatt hours or inverse fermions…..
Calories, joules even energy itself are NOT ANY kind of entities whatsoever in Nature. NOR can energy or its units ever act on the human body. They are abstract fiction. “Spindly” ( abstract characteristic we assign to people) cannot convert, transform or morph into Dav e Chappelele. “Huge” cannot morph into Shaquille O’Neal.
Infrared radiuation is the HEAT, it is part of the elctromagnetic spectrum-actual STUFF that can ACT. We obviously are burned by the sun’s UV radiation- stuff.
Getting back to energy and its absurd amounts of units. WE HAVE FARRRRRRR TOO MANY INVENTIONS ( Yes , calories are an INVENTION just like inverse fermions) Neither calories nor inverse fermions actually exist. We do not need ANY more inventions!
Kilowatt hour rich food. It;s that inverse fermion rich food!!!@! LOL !!!!!!!!\\Yep , the cause of obesity is “kilowatt hours”! The calorie MORONS are RIDICULOUSLY DUMB, See how rodiculous that is??????? LOL !!!!!! NO DIFFERENCE in saying calorie rich versus saying erg rich or joule rich or inverse fermion rich. RICH WITH W-H-A-T EXACTLY?????? WHAT???????!!!!! WHAT STUFF???? Energy as we know from physicists is NOT stuff AT ALL. NOT AT ALL. If I could stress one thing only, it would be energy is NOT AT ALL stuff. In ANY way whatsoever. It is strictly totally abstarct mathematical fiction A NUMBER. Energy has many misconeptions behind it, so much misunderstanding- so many layman canot grasp it. Energy does NOT make things move or go , as Feynman said. What people really mean is FUEL- matter-
Nail James Fell et al ot the wall! Demand they tell you rich with WHAT EXACTLY? WHAT STUFF, WHAT ACTUAL STYUFF are we talkign about. ONLY STUFF can EVER ACT. ENERGY CANNOT AND DOES NOT EVER ACT ON CELLS. It is an abstarct charcteristic a bookeeping devcie only!
What entitiy in nature is this food rich with exactly ?
Energy is nothign but a fiction we use, it is a number only. Matter is actual entity, stuff. Radiation is entity too, but nrt matter. Light is STUFF. NOT energy. Lyle mcDonald et all CONFUSE energy with forces, they also confuise energy with radiation or light. NONE of those examples are “energy.” One cannot at all make an “energy beam.” Nor can one ever, ever damage cells with “energy.” It is not, itself…. ANYTHING…..
Don’t ever let these peopel off the hook, especially in their arrogant condescending supremely ignorant , physcis illiterate articles. Just if I could request you guys tell them it is from me. I do not seek fame, nor do I , nor have I ever sold anything. I just want to be a super thorn in their butt hungry for the TRUTH AND HOENSTLY SCIENCE INREGRITY. PEROPER represenation of phsyics and acknowledging obesity is NOT a physuics issue. it is BIOCHEMCIAL, GENETIC, ENDOCRINE , NEURO. The calorie model fools continually delete me on forums . This message totally exposes the calorie model . This calorie model ( you could easily call it the inverse fermion model or erg model etc. RIDICULOUS!!!!! does NOT point to ANY causality nor is it even remotely abn accurate despcription nor even remotely and explanation for what is actually occuiring. The calorie model is WRONG and these fools need to get over it.
Unlike energy or claories, hormojnes are STUFF- Food is stiff too- food can act ,water can act- thsoe hydrogen/oxygen atoms ( but water is easily excreted in healthy people) calories CANNOT- AT ALL. EVER. They do not even actually exist.
P.S. James Fell and Lyle McDonald ocassionally engaged in naked hijinx with pre-hypertensive Canadian eunuchs, whilst CarbSane passionately serenated Gary Taubes with “All I want To Do Is Make Love To You” by Heart. ROTFLOL!!!!!!!
Thanks, guys,
Razz
Yeah we’ve all heard these “the map is not the territory” kinds of arguments. Point still stands that if you overfeed animals or people they gain weight, and if you starve them they lose weight. It’s irrelevant if you measure the food in calories or electrons or whatever. Your body fights any weight change, so this complicates things, but that doesn’t disprove CICO. At the end of the day, the theories don’t matter, people need solutions.
Electrons are MATTER, STUFF. Energy and calories are not anything but inventions, numbers.
There are dramatic differences in responses to overeating. Some gain next to nothing as far as fat. Linda Bacon went over this in detail. Tbere are nunerous people who gained fat with no change whatsoevervin eating or activitu. Calorie model is wrong. It fsils at the most extreme test pissubke-severe obesitybobserved in destitute abject poverty. The end.
This tgermodynamic argument by Lyke et al is BULLSHIT. I have personally talked to WORLD CLASS tgermodynamics experts. They agree with mr 100%. The sin of tge calorie model is that it posists a closed dystem where NONE EXISTS.
Sure, eating is relevant to most, but naturally sjinny peopke are damn near impossibke to fstten as Friedman notes. Further, those with single gene defects becime obese on what a skinny elderly kady wolkd eat….
Obesity is NOT a simple overeating. Urgelt notes this. Urgie is tgecsmartest person I have ever seen , layman etc. Lyle and Guyenet are nowhere near his intellect.
Calories in/calories out with without question WRONG, laughably wrong and it is not even remotely ANY kind of acvurate descriptiin of what is occuringl ATOMS myst be EXCRETED, physically removed Nor is caliries in /cakories out even remotely ANY EXPLANATION to what is occurung. Feynman was very clear that ebergy is NEVER, EVER, EVET, EVER an explanation for any phenomenin. Obedity remains a very poorly understood phenomenin. Look into URGELT’S obedity video on YouTube. That man has BRAINS.
Tge calirie model is onky promoted by those with SALES AGENDAS ususlly the fitness industry.
“Weight” by the wsy is a FORCE, it has nothing to do with hody composition. Weight is location specific, medium dependent.
Arguing that CICO isn’t real is not the same as providing solutions. Fine, CICO isn’t real. Now what?
We need solutions. Friedman and O’Shea are working hard, making progress. Unfortunately, currently no good solutions exist. All we can do is what all people should do, eat lots and lots of variety, honor hunger and fullness signals, exercise moderstely, not fight our bodies. As far as that treating obesity, it won’t. As Urgelt keenly notes, obesity is a genuine disease of fst cell dysregulation. The chemical behavior of fat cell receptors is extremely poorly understood to nill.
Professor Razwell! What a nice surprise!
I was away from the blog, at the time you wrote your final comment on the previous article. By the time I saw it and replied, it was too late.
Or, so I thought!
It’s great to see you again! Thanks for your kind words. Of course, I feel the same in return. I always enjoy reading your unique perspective and your uncommon wisdom on all matters. I’m glad you’re only SEMI-retired! haha
I hope you are doing well, in all aspects of life!
Now, let me get to your new comments!
Thanks, Carl. It’s great to see you again, buddy. : )
Here is Richard Feynman talking about the electromagnetic spectrum and infrared radiation- the heat we feel, the STUFF.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FjHJ7FmV0M4
Guyenet/Fell/Colpo/CarbSane/McDonald et al ERRONROUSLY confuse energy with forces , also with some nebulous intangible, invisble critter, nebulous stuff , like radio waves- Radiowavres are NOT energy ( nor are they matter) but they ARE which are stuff.
NO, NO AND NO!!!! Such is NOT the case for energy, it is ONLY A NUMBER. Totally abstarct but useful mathematical fiction. ‘
Fell et al are simply NOT SMART ENOUGH to grasp the topic of energy. They are PREYING ON “green” people – their readers. For farrrr too long, these charlatans have abused, misused and misrepresented energy and calories- there is NOTHING AT ALL special about calories, nor intrinsic to food – they could be tossed tomorrow as a Nobel physcist told me in favor of , say, joules..
Food is matter. Atoms are MATTER. WE HUMANS made up and assign energy ( we invenetd alllll these neeedless numbers of units- it really is disgraceful as Feynman stressed) to them- the amount depemnds upon ther observer. Atoms jiggling soooo fast, we say, have “lots of energy” DUE to motion.Atoms jiggling fast enough will emit light.( part of electromagnetic radiation spectrum)
“Without electromagnetism, mater would dissolve ” as a top physicist once told me.
Many obese people are NOT overeating at all. Those with specific single gene defects will become sverely obese IRRESPECTIVE OF eating amount ( as Dr. Friedman noted in articles) – ingested food amount etc. perhaps, those with less food will be modeslty less obese but BOTH situations will have svere obesity manifest.
Fat tissue really does act like a TUMOR in the suepr obese- it lives for itself. Taubes noted this is what 1030’s era scientists nmoted from Austria etc. They were right! Vertical growth is never discussed. A guy from Mozambique held the world heigt record ( 8 foot something) in 1990- that is a super poor nation and he obviously was not eating much,. Numerous severely huge tumors happen in poor areas where people do not east much,.
The calorie model is just plain wrong, Taubes has a strong case. I am not even talking about insulin here just that the calorie model is wrong. The hardest working walker I ever saw is an elderly obese Indian immigrant lady in my neioghborhood. She walks so many days for 2 hours and has not lost a shred of fat in over 5 years. ( She is out there in storms- snow- rain- etc.
Repeatedly you are correct Razwell. We don’t eat the mythical calories, we eat nutrients that create hormones and make hormones, etc. function. Introduce this lady to Zero Carb Health website. It’s the unavailable nutrition in plants that are the issue with obesity. Eating fat meat and water will not make her fat and will allow her body to use the fat storage she already has….stopping more insulin production over time. Insulin is the storage hormone for carbohydrates (famine foods) eaten. Yeah, I know Matt warned me my metabolism would tank…and I believe it was Carl who who insinuate I was a troll, but it hasn’t and I’m not. And without the tease of plant carbs I have NOOOOO cravings to eat plant carbs refined or not. The beef I am eating from the animal we butchered (we raise cattle) always tastes good. The last bit (actually considerable) edema is gone, slimming down quickly in size even if the scales only say 18-20 lbs down. Total confidence unlike I’ve ever experienced eating low carb. I started at 230+ and now 216 (29 days) since May 18, 2018. Gave away all the size 22/24 clothes the other day. Next month or two the size 20 will be out the door and on to bin for the size 18 clothes…and then the 16, then the 14 and then the 12. Then I’ll be buying (even if only from the thrift store) all the cute size 10s and then 8s. I’ll be keeping you all updated as I progress to my body’s goal of 130-140…140 with muscle. Matt, your books are leaving the house next….to help someone else get their mind and life normalized even with SAD…with a teeny note inside to consider zero plant food/meat and water diet eventually.
Hi, AnnB:
I try to be polite and respectful in my posts, so I searched back through the comments and I think I found the post to which you referred. It was another user that suggested you might be a troll.
However, if there is another post in which I made some insulting insinuation, then I sincerely apologize.
There are enough other websites (especially YouTube) where people tear-apart each other, because they are anonymous. One of the things I like about this site is that, much more than other sites, people are generally well-behaved.
Anyway, I offer that clarification, because I wouldn’t want anything to get in the way of our continuing to exchange ideas.
In addition to reading your posts with great interest, I’ve read the story of Charlene Andersen on the MeatHeals.com site and it’s fascinating. This is the 20th year that she (and, I think, her husband Joe) has been eating only ribeye steaks and water.
After years of failed attempts to find a universal diet that works for everyone, I finally understand that different things work for different people. Sadly, the Magical Dietary Unicorn doesn’t seem to exist. I’d hope to ensnare it with my licorice lasso, mount that steed with my saddle made of Skittles, and ride it thundering across the great prairie of pancakes.
Alas, it was not meant to be.
Instead, I see people in various diet camps that report success with their particular eating plan: Keto, Low-Carb, High-Carb, Vegan, Raw Vegan, Fruitarian, etc.
Then, once again, I get frustrated and vow to stop reading all this stuff and just eat what I want. I kept/keep hoping that someone would finally discover “THE” truth. The Unicorn thing again.
Anyway, I congratulate you on your weight loss, body recomposition (the scale is meaningless, in this regard), losing the edema, and your soaring confidence and optimism. That all has to feel pretty amazing.
Currently, I have a bit more body fat that I’d like, but it’s maybe only 10 lbs. – maybe 15 lbs., at most. So, all things considered, I’m not complaining about it.
Before I got sick, five years ago, I was eating low-carb, exercising like a maniac, and still had about the same amount of extra body fat. Now, five years later, as I continue dealing with the health issues, I’ve not exercised AT ALL during this period, have eaten plenty of carbs (including some, but not tons, of the ‘junk’ and processed carbs), had significant muscle atrophy, and STILL have the same extra body fat.
At this point, I’m not that frustrated about it. Really, I’m more curious. Some have suggested that my body is hanging-on to that fat, because it’s storing some of the various toxicants that seem to be indicated from some lab testing. Given my history of exposures, that seems a plausible answer. Though, who really knows?
Going forward, I hope you will keep posting on Matt’s blog and let us know how you’re doing. I definitely would like to know how things are going and I’m sure I’m not the only one.
One last thing.
This is something I wondered about Charlene, too. In looking at the nutrition data for a single ribeye steak, it has, among other things, the following:
Amount: 1 steak (291 g)
Calories: 847
– Total Fat 63 g (96%)
– Saturated Fat: 28 g (140%)
– Polyunsaturated Fat: 3 g
– Monounsaturated Fat: 31 g
– Trans Fat: 4.3 g
– Cholesterol: 233 mg (77%)
– Sodium 157 mg (6%)
– Potassium 757 mg (21%)
– Total Carbohydrate 0 g (0%)
– Dietary Fiber 0 g (0%)
– Sugar 0 g
– Protein 69 g (138%)
– Vitamin A: 1%
– Calcium: 3%
– Vitamin D: 5%
– Vitamin B-12: 101%
– Vitamin C: 0%
– Iron: 36%
– Vitamin B-6: 70%
– Magnesium: 16%
Q: Are you not concerned about the lack of certain vitamins and minerals?
Q: How about the absence of fiber to feed gut bacteria?
Q: Are you not concerned about the high protein? (IGF-1)
Q: What about the various phytochemical and antioxidants that we would otherwise get from vegetables and fruit?
Given the obvious time and attention you’ve put into this pursuit, I’d appreciate if you’d help satisfy my curiosity. The MeatHeals.com site didn’t make mention of any lab testing. And, though I’ve not listened to it myself, I’ve read that some of Shawn Baker’s labs didn’t look so good.
I figured that one might develop an iodine deficiency on just meat, but was surprised to find that beef contains 11-14 mcg per 75 g. So, the hypothetical steak mentioned above would contain up to 54 mcg per steak.
So, to meet the minimum daily value (150 mcg) for iodine, that would mean:
– 2.76 steaks/day for most people. That’s about 2,337 calories.
– 5.34 steaks/day for breastfeeding women. That’s about 4,523 calories.
[ All these numbers are approximations, of course, based on high-level data. Not to mention that ‘Calories’ don’t really exist! :) Go Razwell! ]
I could probably eat a steak a day for a few days, but I know (from experience) I would tire of it quickly. So, it would be difficult for me to choke-down the 2.76 steaks required to avoid a slow descent into iodine deficiency.
One could use supplements, I suppose, though I’ve personally become cautious of supplements, as they cannot always be the same thing that’s in food. Perhaps a few are, but multi-vitamins are suspect.
Anyway, again, I would love to get your feedback on some of these points!
Best wishes,
Carl
The body doesn’t need fiber to make poop. This one is easy…do you know any babies who nurse/formula fed (although more formed than breast milk) who don’t poop? Adults don’t need fiber either. In the past I’ve been unwell enough to prefer only milk and still made poop. Also ill enough to not eat at all for days and still made poop.
Vitamin C is not the only anti-scorbutic in a meat only diet. Otherwise, all exclusively carnivorous animals would be deficient. Read paragraph 3 https://zerocarbzen.com/vitamin-c/
I only eat to satiety, so excessive protein is not a concern. I’m certain other carnivores aren’t sitting around discussing if they are eating too much zebra. Meat you like to eat has fat in the correct ratio without adding extra fat.
Calories aren’t part of anyone’s diet equation…nutrients are what we eat from fat, protein and carbohydrates (trace in meats).
The nutrients in plants (carbohydrates) is not readily available to carnivores who do not have the digestive system of ruminants or other animals designed to thrive on their plant carb diet.
Without the carbohydrates to stress my body and make it work overtime to process, digest, break down and eliminate/neutralize as much as possible the natural (don’t eat me) poisons, there is less need for many vitamins and minerals than what is commonly a RDA.
I no longer need thyroid. Need less Vitamin D3 and magnesium….my former staple supplements.
We’ve all heard how white sugar contains no nutrients and robs us of vitamins and minerals…I believe the whole vegetable/fruit/grain/nuts has that same quality…as a robber of nutrients. I’m OK not knowing the researched science.
Eating to satiety a meat+water diet is self-limiting. We naturally eat less and less often because we are not hungry.
Plant foods are incomplete, hence incomplete nutrition will always make a body seek more in hopes the next meal will be complete. Carbohydrates are not filling/satisfying no matter how much fiber they contain to extend the stomach and intestines to make one ‘feel’ full as they scrape through the body causing injury all along the way….in addition to all the methane produced.
No carbs, no bacteria creating (painful or not) gasses = no farting. Let me repeat = no farting.
I don’t feel full after eating my fill, I feel done/satisfied I’ve had enough. Not being able to eat another bite is not from volume, but nutrient satiety.
I have yet to tire of eating beef steaks cooked to medium rare under the broiler or pan fried. Although pan fried can more easily overcook it. Cold cut up leftovers the next day seem to taste even better.
I am looking forward to our next butchering from a different butcher. We don’t know what the last one did, but the ground beef tasted like nasty sweaty socks (fed to the barn cats) and the other beef cuts haven’t been so tasty either, but I’m eat it.
Maybe it wasn’t our beef? We prefer our beef cooled and cut in a few days, not after a week or two. Later than a few days and it’s rotten flavored. How anyone ever developed a taste for rot is beyond me. And it’s like we are asking the butcher to pull his own teeth out to process our beef this quickly. The two animals we had processed (three families) took a long time until it was ready…so either not ours or was rotted and lost all flavor.
You can read all three of these books in free download pdf. See links in public forum Zeroing In On Health FB group files. Strong Medicine by Blake Donaldson. The Fat of the Land by Steffanson. Or Google search for them and this third one Eat Fat and Grow Slim by MacKarness.
Researchers in the time of those books and the year long meat diet study have already answered the questions of fiber, Vitamin C, etc.
Enjoy the Files and various Docs and PDFs. If you have to join to see them, answer the questions and just read for several weeks and do word searches of the group posts to have many of your questions answered without having to ask a question that’s been asked/answered dozens of times over the 8 years of the group.
And yes, I searched and found it wasn’t you who used the word troll…and it doesn’t matter who did. I’m not holding any animosity toward anyone. I’m just happy the topic of carnivore came up and I now eat simply and with satiety in all ways.
Gotta go broil that steak and then I’ll sit down and watch the latest Transformer movie on EPIX…Dish free preview weekend….recording now.
Indeed, I realize the body doesn’t need fiber to make poop. That wasn’t anything I wrote. Instead, I asked about fiber to feed our microbiome.
As for Vitamin C, most animals make their own. Humans and few other do not. It’s believed that we once did, but, due to getting a lot of it in our diets, we lost the ability to make in endogenously.
Thanks for the Vitamin C link. You noted paragraph three:
“There appears to be an alternative biochemical pathway for preventing scurvy that occurs when one is eating a fat-burning ketogenic diet, as opposed to a sugar-burning glucogenic diet. While the mechanism of action is not entirely clear, it is considered to be an established fact. Dr. Stephen Phinney has speculated that the blood ketone beta-hydroxybutyrate may itself be the anti-scorbutic factor.”
They think something exists, they don’t know how it works, but it’s considered to be “an established fact.” That’s an interesting comment.
It seems your position — or, maybe those whom you are following — that humans are carnivores and not omnivores.
It would seem, based on factors like how our jaws move; the structure of the teeth; the size, shape, and pH of the stomach; as well as the length of our digestive tract (mouth-to-anus), that we’re much more like primates than actual carnivores like lions or wolves.
Anyway, based on what/how your reply was written, I want to clarify that I was only asking questions out of sincere curiosity. It wasn’t my intention to challenge you in any sort of negative way.
Honestly, if I thought I could eat only meat and water, while restrictive in the sense of diversity, it would be liberating in a way, as I would no longer have to spend so much time trying to figure-out what to eat. I think that’s why the low-carb appealed to me, back from 2009-2013, because I had a short list of foods from which to choose. Once I started eating all the “bad” foods again (grains, legumes, fruits, etc.), I then had more things from which to choose. For me, too much choice is a bad thing.
Truly, I wish you luck.
Admittedly, I’m skeptical. You’re speaking with what appears to be a lot of conviction and certainty, with only 29 days of history. It reminds me of myself, when I started a low-carb diet. I see it with others switching to Paleo, Vegan, etc. I hope those convictions and that certainty are your own and earned through due diligence, rather than simply adopting what others suggest.
Thinking of this from a historical perspective, it’s unlikely that our ancestors would have had access to meat on a daily basis year-after-year.
But, that was then and this is now, so maybe it will work for you. And, by “work,” I mean that in the broadest possible manner (cardiovascular health, mental health, neurological health, immune health, restorative sleep, good digestion, and on and on), not something as myopic as body weight.
So, while I’m skeptical, I’m also intrigued. So, again, I do hope you will keep us updated, over time. While I have no immediate plans to follow a meat-only diet (more due to the lack of variety), I will look more into the materials to which you referenced. Even if I don’t follow that plan currently, I do find it interesting and would like to know more.
If you’re open to sharing, I’d be curious to know:
– Your age, generally-speaking. (e.g. early 20s, mid-30s, etc.)
– How long your body fat has been higher than you would like?
Obviously, you’re under no obligation to answer either. I’m just curious whether you’re younger, middle-aged, or older — and how many years you’ve invested in seeking solutions.
Take care and enjoy your movie and broiled steak!
I wanted to link to Victor Stenger and Peter M. Brown. The “laws” of physics are NOT restrictions upon the behavior of matter. Rather, they are restrictions upon how physicists can write their mathematical equations.. Visitn aliens MAY and likely do have DIFFERENT models of the unievrse, their own laws etc. Many medical doctors do not get this! There is far too much stuffiness and over glorification of science in the Blogopshere – CarbSane.There is SO much we cannot do- cannot cure hardly any diseases, cannot travel to our nearest star ( not even the sun etc.) we do NOT know orfin of life, NOR orgin of universe as WENBERG states. ( No, the “Big Bang” is not the start of it all like popularizers have said) It was actually an expansion we think and we know virtualyl NOTHING about it. it could haev bee the end of another universe or the start of a pocket universe, not evberything. As Guth noted, there could have been many, many, many Big Expansions over and over again.
I will have a field day with the lower overrated “intellects” such as McDonald, Guyenet, Colpo, CarbSane- Dr. Thorne is world class and he talks about laws here:
They appear to be like nested Russian Dolls. Today we know General Relativity is NOT really the case- just an approximation at very best- farrrr deeper laws or principles underpin it. :Keep in mind how many tests GR has passed and it STILL IS NOT really the case as Dr. Thorne notes- JUST approximation, not accurate:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rHsBDTy3yEE
GR and the Standard Model is MORE fundamental than “themrodynamics as Weinberg noted.
Einstein, himself ,said, we will NEVER see the body of the lion, just it’s tail etc.- I think we only see the scruft on the tail not even the full tail, actually . Einy thought we will NEVER see the INSIDE of the watch etc. I really think consciousness will forever evade humans, many top phsycists today think so.We humans are PART of what we are studying. physcis is what we HUMANS say , NOT what Nature says- said neils Biohr.There are topic that we are not smart enough to handle I truly believe.WEe have our limits. I really wonder as Pentagon officials have noted- have we ben visited. There were some aircraft doing moves which were thought not possible, yet pilots have video of objects doing this. IF, IF we are/were visited by aliens what THEY HAVE is farrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr superior to our science- a human onvention.
We cannot assume math ( our invention) is instrinsic to the universe- there is no reason it should be. As Brian Grenene notes.
Greene explains here and takes HOKEY popularizer, Neil Tyson ,to task:
https:/www.youtube.com/watch?v=bBfkAuenQJo
I really dislike the popularizers such as Sagan and Tyson. I DO like Greene, Weinberg etc.- truly great physcists.
By the way- we should ALL mention to Lyle McDonald we ALREADY live in a universe where energy is NOT conserved.
In the case of the rapidly explanding universe, this NUMBER we call energy is NOT- NOT conserved. Energy is ONLY cobnserved LOCALLY under time translational invariance. It is NOT some fiat or rule. There are reasons for what we think. Peopel like GUyenet seem to think the laws of physcis are some rules imposed upon the universe.No, thery are HUMANS’ BEST GUESSES. ALL theories and laws are INVENTED. Observations , we discover these phenomenon , we then model and make and INVENT theories.Einy and Newton INVENETD their theories of gravity. What we will have in 1,000 years from now will make current science seen very, very primitive said Freeman Dyson on video.
However, – protons and electrons, quarks etc. and radiation are all stuff- we either infered or observed them. Int he case of stars, they are so far away we MUSTY make inferences. Energy and its units are inventions in the full sense of the word- toally made up units
Queen Candy,
We did something similar, but used ice cream. It took 2 months of them having ice cream for every meal before they slowed down. Doing this, along with mixed candy, got rid of my oldest son’s eczema for good. They now self regulate. Please, don’t give up.
Matt I need some help. I’ve been purposely leaving a dish of three different candies (gum drops, jelly beans, fruit snacks) out on the table all day for my kids for the past two and a half days. So far my older son, 4 years old, is still eating quite a bit of candy and not a whole lot of other foods. My two-year-old seems to have slowed down a bit on the candy and is eating other foods but not too diverse. It seems to be wanting a lot of toast with butter lately. I cringed as my four-year-old stuffed his face full of candy for breakfast this morning. I feel like this experiment is not working. I feel like a horrible mother for letting my kids do this. But I don’t want to give up. I guess I keep remembering your girlfriend’s daughter who is able to balance herself with candy and juice and real foods. I want them to be like that. Is there anything else that you would recommend that I do with the candy bowl? I do have other Foods displayed on the table as well. They seem to be eating a lot more of the fruit snacks than the other 2 candies.
It hasn’t been very long.
But if you get to the point where you want to up the ante, you can take it to the next level by forbidding them to eat anything else. That will solve that problem really quickly! Although it is a little cruel, lol.
Relax Zack. I’m doing this because I’m sick of them always asking for candy, looking for candy in my food cabinets and always being focused on candy at gatherings rather than having fun and playing with the kids. My two-year-old weaned himself a year ago and has been eating decent food since then. He is the one who seems to be eating less candy than my 4 yr old. I’m surprised because I already did this experiment on my four year olds 2 other times. I decided to let them have it after meals bc I noticed that they are grazing all day and not eating meals.
A 4 and 2 year old???? Youre their parent, make them eat! Jesus woman, 4 and 2 year olds and you have resigned to letting them walk all over you. Sorry if that’s harsh but that’s crazy to me. You let them eat all the candy they want at such an early age and that’s all they will will remember, that they deserve candy instead of real food. I don’t know the background to this but they should have just come off the tit eating decent stuff and it wouldn’t be an issue.
Hey Zach,
Making someone do something decreases intrinsic motivation to do whatever you are forcing them to do. People resent what they are forced to do. If they are forced to eat “healthy” food and not allowed to eat “junk” food, they will associate healthy food with drudgery and junk food with pleasure. We’re complex psychological/emotional beings. The ultimate solution is to get kids to want healthy food and not want junk food. That’s what she’s trying to make strides towards. It has nothing to do with some outdated dictatorial approach to parenting.
I disagree. This isn’t about making the kid sit at the table until his plate is clean or eating Broccoli till he pukes. Young kids need someone to guide them and teach them right from wrong. Throwing up your hands and letting them do whatever they want in hopes they learn their own lesson sounds like it could backfire big time. I think I remember that when you did this experiment, your step daughter was 7 or so? A 4 and 2 year old are not capable of such epiphanies. Now if you tried that experiment that was documented about letting them sit down and pick out their own foods between meat/dairy/fruit/bread/cooked veg etc at every meal, they might inuitivelly start going towards more nutrient dense stuff. Either way it’s all real food. A two year old having jelly beans for meals is just a good way to ruin his palette, teeth and give him some gut issues.
I agree with Matt. My 3 year old can and will, at times, choose fruit or veggies over cookies and candy. He loves carrots, tomatoes, and onions. Carrots are his favorite. There are times when he eats candy, cookies and donuts, but he will choose a carrots over most other foods. He also likes pizza, rolls and pastas. He also likes mushrooms and other veggies with cheese and an organic ranch dressing we get with it. He eats it like a salad without the lettuce. That is still too difficult for him to eat. We had our children eat as much ice cream as they want and try to get a big bag of candy a week. Sometimes, they can go 2 weeks or longer without the candy if they get plenty of other carbs like bread, pasta, fruit and veggies. He can tell what he wants and he is just 3 years old. So, I totally agree with Matt on this because I have witnessed it with my own eyes. They do self regulate. I believe a child has the capability of self regulating better than adults because they do not have the many years of programming to reprogram. They are born with self regulation, most of the time. They know when they are hungry and know when they are full. When they get to the food stage, we start telling them what their body needs instead of letting the child tell us what they need. They need more energy because they are constantly growing, either physically or mentally, so they need more carbs and sugar than most people think they do. The first foods, other than rice cereal, we give them are veggies and meat. Well, if they were born with low metabolisms, they will need different food. At that age, though, they can’t tell you. So, an unknowing adult will feed “healthy” foods and which do not do any good for a low metabolism.
@Zach: intuitive eating and listening to the “wisdom” of the body are both bullshit. A body that becomes morbidly obese and fights to stay that way is an idiot, not wise.
Those kids in that one, unreplicated experiment: if we also added to their table all American classics like McDonalds, Pop tarts, Mac and cheese and so on, do you think they would even look at the lettuce and the salmon before lunging at the Big Mac?
The body isn’t wise. Hunger satiety can be fooled by alcohol, cigarettes, caffeine, stress to name a few. After that, the body only knows how to seek calories, nothing else. Sugar or fat. The higher the calories the better. Put them together–salt, sugar, fat–and you will gorge by instinct. That’s the extent of your body’s “wisdom”.
No body wants to be obese. It’s a coping mexhanism to a toxic environment
Science has surpassed our natural intuition, that doesn’t make our bodies stupid.
And who says Mac and cheese and burgers are unhealthy, make em yourself and they are ‘super foods? nutritionally and calorically dense. Eating fat and sugar together will not cause metabolic syndrome on their own.
Humans are stupid, our bodies natural intuition is not.
Not everyone actually does gorge instinctively, or becomes fat from eating a lot of pleasurable foods. Gorging and binge eating are behaviors that happen almost exclusively when palatable foods are being restricted. Avoiding foods can heighten the desire to eat those foods. That’s why avoiding certain foods is usually a fattening strategy long-term.
I discussed this briefly in an interview with Stephen Guyenet years ago. I was surprised that he had very little to say about the heightened compulsion to binge on hyperpalatable foods in response to restriction. Or, the enhanced self-regulation and resulting calorie balance that can occur when dietary restriction is removed.
The main reason I’ve advocated the general idea of intuitive eating is that I find it’s a better strategy for the majority of average, everyday people. Normal, highly-social, fairly weak-willed people living in the modern world tend to fail miserably with dietary restriction. And certainly a better solution for the disordered eaters who have found their way here.
Sure, living out in the jungle and eating a whole foods diet like Freelee might be a hypothetical ideal diet and lifestyle. But it’s purely hypothetical. 99.9% of people in the world aren’t going to do that, so they are in need of helpful, more realistic and convenient solutions (even if they aren’t the “optimal” solutions).
Know what I mean?
Well stated, Matt.
I wish the hell eating with abandon was as easy as I found restrictive eating to (eventually) be. It seems completely bass-ackwards.
Thanks, all you popular diet authors. You fuckers.
I’m not even worried about the weight gain, it’s more a concern about any potential health consequences, despite knowing that eating restrictively is causing its own problems.
Last night, I started listening to “Diet Recovery 2” again. Once I’m done with it, I’ll probably listen to “Solving the Paleo Equation: Stress, Nutrition, Exercise, Sleep” again, too. I’m grateful for both. (Plus, the other eight books, too. Me love you long time, G.I.)
The problem here is that “intuitive eating” conjures an image of like a super advanced A.I. in your mind that constantly monitors your environment and can make decisions based on what’s best for you.
In reality it’s less HAL 9000 from Space Odyssey and more like a cheap wristwatch you buy from the dollar store. It tracks one or two things like blood sugar and leptin, and when it detects calorie dense food it tells you to eat up. That’s it.
And it’s not even good at it’s job. If you’re obese, you’re likely insulin and leptin resistant, so the readings it’s taking are not even accurate! Not to mention the other stuff I brought up like stress, alcohol, caffeine, nicotine, meds, etc. That also mess with the readings.
As for hyper palatable foods, that’s a whole other mess. One of my fav books is one you suggested: Salt, Sugar, Fat. In it you see there’s armies of PhD s studying this stuff like it’s the cure for cancer. They’re not just using salt, sugar and fat combos but they’re changing the shape of their molecules to help them diffuse on the tongue better! These are supranormal stimuli that your brain can’t handle.
I get what you’re saying: restricting foods makes things much, much worse, but I’m saying things are already bad without that. I’ve been refeeding for four years and I still binge. If I feel satisfied by pizza, I’ll just change up the texture, say to ice cream, and book, I can binge a 1000 more calories, plus liquid calories that the brain can’t even read. It’s the buffet effect, the binge eater partner in crime. The brain can’t and won’t put a stop to this “intuitively”. It’s helpless.
“The problem here is that ‘intuitive eating’ conjures an image of like a super advanced A.I. in your mind that constantly monitors your environment and can make decisions based on what’s best for you.
In reality it’s less HAL 9000 from Space Odyssey and more like a cheap wristwatch you buy from the dollar store. It tracks one or two things like blood sugar and leptin, and when it detects calorie dense food it tells you to eat up. That’s it.”
I really enjoyed that, Skeptic! [The entire post, not just the above quote.]
I’ve long debated — in my own head — whether I should indulge in foods/food-like-items that “taste good,” because my taste buds have been perverted/hijacked by food scientists doing exactly what you noted.
Also, if my G.I. tract is bombarded with all sorts of “unnatural” chemical compounds (at a molecular level, though, is anything unnatural?), does that alter the flora, and, in turn, cause me to desire more/different food stimuli? I know there’s more to things than just the gut bacteria, though it’s en vogue at the moment.
What if we bombarded our guts with anti-biotics (whether pharmaceutical or otherwise)? Could we wipe-clean the slate and start-over? I know that fecal transplants aim to accomplish something similar.
Are things truly hopeless?
If so, then knowing it would be liberating! Then, I could just eat whatever I wanted and just realize I’m not really steering this ship. I would sell my few possessions, buy an old, affordable RV, and travel from doughnut shop to pizza parlor to ice cream shop across this great land and document my expanding waistline on Instagram. And, in doing so, probably make a fortune.
Okay, some of that was just for comedic effect.
Really, I don’t crave ALL of that stuff. I recently bought two doughnuts, from a local shop, that makes them to order from really good ingredients. They were definitely good, but I didn’t want more.
Maybe if I kept eating them, beyond desire, I would develop more of a craving for them. I suspect this *would* be the case, due to my tendency to obsess/restrict/intellectually interfere with my food choices. Maybe, due to the aforementioned gut bacteria theory, I would manufacture the desire.
Or, I would just keep banging those “pleasure centers” in the brain that some health gurus frequently cite. “Sugar lights-up the same reward centers in the brain that cocaine does!” But, what they don’t say is, according to what I’ve read, so does masturbation and so does petting a puppy. And, I’m not stopping either — especially masturbation! (“Hey, don’t knock masturbation. It’s sex with someone I love.” –Woody Allen from ‘Annie Hall’)
In the end, though, I really have no idea. I sure do love the taste of pizza, though — especially from a local shop that uses really fresh, quality ingredients. But, after three slices (which is half of the pizza), I’m good. I can often eat the other three slices, before bed, if I have enough time, but my sleep will often suffer (more than it already does, for non-food-related issues) due to heartburn/reflux.
Are the only choices to:
1. Eat highly-palatable foods and possibly have a shortened life plagued with health issues, or
2. Eat lots of broccoli, kale, lean/fatty animal products (take your pick, if one eats animal products), green smoothies, beans, potatoes, and other quintessentially “healthy” foods and possibly live a longer[*] life that often feels like it’s being restricted/deprived, due to ignoring our perverted taste buds?
[*Maybe it wouldn’t actually be longer, but might sure feel like it.]
Can we ever find the right balance?
Thanks Carl. I don’t have any answers so far. Here’s where I’m at. CICO is correct, but Matt is also correct. Stalemate. Now I’m thinking: how do we get past this? If the body fights restriction, then how to we get around it’s defenses. All I know is I’ve got to try something. Linda Bacon’s soothsaying is not working for me anymore.
Stalemate, indeed, Skeptic.
The only thing that “works” for me that (1) I’ve tried for any significant time, AND (2) yields a desirable outcome is to stick with…
* Lots of green vegetables (>50% of the plate, by volume)
* Small amounts (2-3 oz.) of beef/fowl/fish per meal
* A few servings of fruit (berries), as desired
* No ADDED oils/fats (just what’s in whole foods)
* Small amounts of starches/nuts/seeds/grains
So, basically, a restrictive low-ish-carb diet.
When I say that it “works,” I do lose weight/fat and my pants get loose in the waist. But, man, do I hate choking-down all those green vegetables.
Part of the problem is my eating them steamed with nothing on them but a splash of salt. That’s my fault, for not knowing how to prepare them in a more palatable way. Roasting them in the oven would probably be good.
I have a pressure cooker, but the only time I tried cooking asparagus, broccoli, and Brussels sprouts in it, rather than being bland, they turned bland AND mushy. Double fail.
Anyway, if I eat that way long enough, foregoing added sugars/sweets/desserts, I lose the craving for them. When food is boring and bland, eating is just a rote task I must complete, devoid of joy.
But, I also seem to like predictability and structure, after all the goddamn ping-ponging back-and-forth from one eating plan to another. It’s “easier” having the lists of “good” and “bad” foods.
Though, I also know all the above is a bunch of bullshit I’d talked myself into (or, resigned myself to, out of frustration) and is not a real solution.
This is an image that I found on Google Images that shows the exact “diet” that I followed that “worked” for me. No snacking outside of meals and only what’s allowed on the list.
http://www.moonsandspoons.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/10/IMG_3056-555×1024.jpg
So, it was boring and restricted calories. Like Matt wrote: It’s works. Until it doesn’t.
Despite knowing people who eat whatever they want, don’t even think about food or what’s in it, and remaining lean, I STILL have the idea that the solution is to eat only whole, natural foods (without the absurd restrictions in the above image and in my above writing) and ride-it-out for at least six months. Though, I would still caution to not add isolated/refined fats like oils, butter, etc.
Yet, I know if it were that simple, more people would either be doing it…or, at least having better success with it. Maybe that’s the “Naturalistic Fallacy,” “Appeal to Nature,” or whatever-it’s-called that the skeptic blogs always mention.
Also, I know it’s almost certainly not only food that’s the issue. Stress, sleep, exercise, blah, blah, blah that we’ve been hearing over-and-over.
We repeatedly hear that other societies are thinner than us Americans. True? I have no idea. But, if it is, what are they doing or not doing? Besides living in an inhospitable climate and/or starving, that is.
Sorry for the brain dump. Speaking of sleep, I didn’t get much, last night. Only 90 minutes, before I was awake and toss-and-turned for another 90 minutes, before finally getting-up. I need a nap.
Keep the comments coming, Skeptic!
Carl, when you say that diet works for you, does that include only sleeping 90 minutes a night?
Sounds like a pretty hellish diet. You know, I always think about the French and their amazing tasting cuisine. They use heavy butter, cream, duck fat, lots of white bread, etc. delishious Whole Foods cooked well. They stay lean eating this way. You can too!
Hi, Zach:
You’re 100% right that my sleep is hellish, unfortunately. That’s definitely NOT working for me.
As for that dumb, restrictive diet I mentioned, I’m not actually following that anymore. That was a couple of years ago. I erred in not making that clear, so thanks for giving me an opportunity to clarify that fact.
The sleep is one of several issues with which I’m dealing.
The most recent problems started almost five years ago. I had a sudden onset of extreme fatigue that persists to this day. A month later, I got really sick with what I thought was a bad sore throat and a cold/flu. Only, it lasted seven straight weeks. I had a few rounds of antibiotics that did nothing. Months later, a different doctor figured I’d almost certainly had walking pneumonia for those seven weeks. Tinnitus started, too, and still persists.
About 14 months later (and more doctors, tests, and money), I found a tick embedded in the back of my leg. It tested positive for the main bacteria associated with Lyme Disease (though there are hundreds of microbes they can carry) and I took more antibiotics. Four months later, things got much worse and it’s been a shit-storm since. I’ve tested positive for HSV-1, HSV-2, HHV-6, Mycoplasma Pneumoniae, Chlamydia Pneumoniae, Parvovirus B19 (I even passed it to someone else, unknowingly) and even ongoing, elevated levels of Carbon Monoxide that no one can determine the reason or source.
So, these days, the diet stuff doesn’t ruffle my features nearly as much as in the past. I do still think about it — at times, too much. But, it’s generally further down my list of priorities.
As for the French, I almost mentioned them, too, in my previous post. The “French Paradox,” they say. Though, Dr. Greger states it’s not really much of a paradox at all. I don’t recall the details, but he made a video about the topic, some time ago.
Today, I started with a banana and a bowl of cereal. Then, a short while later, two HUGE doughnuts from a local shop that makes them from scratch and to order, hours later, I picked-up a pizza from a local shop that uses excellent ingredients. I ate half there and just stopped writing this post long enough to finish the other half. It was a good day. Food-wise, at least.
Soon, I plan to take some extended-release melatonin and an herbal sleep product. I usually take these, anyway, but, tonight, I’ll take two doses — one dose an hour before bed and the second dose at bedtime. Maybe things will go better, tonight. I hope so.
Wishing you well.
Carl
I was watching a Tim Ferris video recently, and coincidentally he had Lyme disease too, confirmed because they found the ticks. He said he cured it with the keto diet (plus meds I presume). Wonder if there’s any science behind that.
If the video of Tim Ferris discussing Lyme Disease was with Rhonda Patrick, I saw part of it. I had to stop it, though, because it’s a complicated topic that gets me easily upset.
Fasting is unlikely to cure an infectious disease. It could be an adjunctive therapy, I suppose, but ticks, fleas, mosquitos, and other biting/stinging vectors have the possibility of transmitting any of the myriad viruses and bacteria about which scientists know.
Example: The main bacteria associated with Lyme Disease is Borrelia Burgdorferi. However, there are over 50 Borrelia variants that have been identified.
“In his 2015 book on Lyme Disease, Stephen Buhner points out that ‘depth examination of Ixodes ticks has found they can carry up to 237 genera of microorganisms that are infectious to vertebrates’ (and that’s just one type of tick). A genus is a group of organisms with similar characteristics. For microbes, a genus can include many species. Tallied up, the list of tick-borne microbes adds up into the hundreds or even thousands.” https://bit.ly/2E51uCK
So, it’s not just “Lyme Disease” itself, there are various other infections (coinfections) that can come-along for the ride.
There’s also “Acute” Lyme Disease vs. “Chronic” Lyme Disease.
If a person gets bitten, the tick (or, other vector) may or may not be infected with any pathogen (though, it’s generally believed most are carrying SOMETHING). Next, the question is whether or not the tick/vector was attached long enough to transmit any pathogens to the host. Also, did the person see, feel, or otherwise notice the bite/attachment? If so, were they able to get the antibiotic Doxycycline quickly enough and were they prescribed the correct amount for the proper length of time? That, in turn, depends on which Doctor they consulted. Was it a Doctor that follows the IDSA guidelines or the ILADS guidelines? The health of the person that was bitten also plays a part. How healthy is their immune system? Did they have any ongoing health conditions, prior to the bite? Any genetic considerations that might make treatment/recovery more challenging?
As much as I can go on-and-on about diet-/food-related stuff, it’s even worse for me when discussing Lyme Disease and Coinfections.
When dealing with folks face-to-face, I often don’t mention it, because it could turn into a heated debate. And, I don’t have the energy or desire to argue with folks.
Much like diet, when it comes to Lyme Disease (or, any other number of things), people can hear a sound bite on the news or read an article and think they know the totality of the issue. “I heard ‘XYZ’ on NPR and they said ‘blah, blah, blah’ about it.”
If they can’t even get diet correct, how likely are they to have all the facts on various infectious diseases and their interactions on any given person’s immune system?
Highly unlikely, in my opinion.
p.s. I was just checking weather.com to look at the forecast for this afternoon and evening and saw the following article. How timely.
https://weather.com/health/news/2018-05-11-invasive-tick-species-deadly-disease-new-jersey
I suspect bacteriophages are where it’s at when it comes to fighting infectious disease. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YI3tsmFsrOg
Damn, Lyme disease sounds rough. This just adds to my distrust of nature and going outside lol. It wasn’t with Rhonda, it was just him talking to the camera. I didn’t watch much but he said something about the keto diet rejuvinating mitochondria, which helped with the fatigue. I don’t think he’s saying that keto alone cured him. I wish you the best in your battle.
@matt: I remember you mentioning something about bacteriaphages a long time ago (something about the river Ganges), and now it’s blowing up in the mainstream. Ahead of the curve as always ????
I agree with Matt about Phage therapy. But, only if the $#*% FDA would try to be helpful.
It seems there’s often a governmental agency in the way of people getting what they need. While I understand there should be some caution, in certain cases, when all other treatments have failed a person, they and their doctor should, in my opinion, be allowed to try unconventional approaches.
As for Lyme Disease, I recently read about the following lawsuit:
“TEXARKANA, Texas (CN) ? Twenty-eight people claim in a federal antitrust lawsuit that Lyme disease victims are being forced to pay hundreds of thousands of dollars for treatment because health insurers are denying coverage with bogus guidelines established by their paid consultants, who falsely say the disease can always be cured with a month of antibiotics.
Suffering from migraine headaches, an irregular heartbeat, hearing problems and nerve pain, lead plaintiff Lisa Torrey says in the lawsuit filed Friday in Texarkana, Texas federal court that she visited 36 doctors, some of whom misdiagnosed her with multiple sclerosis and fibromyalgia and said her symptoms ?were all in her head,? before she was properly diagnosed with Lyme disease.”
https://www.courthousenews.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/11/LymeDisease.pdf
Lyme Disease, like many conditions referred to as “mysterious,” is a giant shit-storm, for a variety of reasons and on all sides.
Although it’s been a while, I recall Matt writing an article on Lyme Disease and handling the topic with care, as it’s a complex subject.
Anyway, back to Bacteriophages, I’d first heard about this therapy in 2015. Since then, however, I’ve not heard much else about it in the Lyme Disease camps. Again, I think our governing/regulatory agencies are impediments. So, if people do get phage therapy, they have to leave the U.S. and be able to afford it out-of-pocket.
Here’s a good video on Bacteriophages that I saw late last year:
The Virus That Kills Drug-Resistant Superbugs
https://youtu.be/aVTOr7Nq2SM
As some of us keep saying, infections (silent, hidden infections) are likely impacting many of us without our knowledge. And, as Razwell mentioned, infections may eventually be found to be a major contributor to the obesity epidemic. The more we learn, the more we realize how much everything is connected — and, how much we still don’t know.
Hopefully we don’t have to eat “high meat” and animal droppings and drink from the Ganges. As of now, those are the cheapest DYI bacteriophage options. Can’t believe Vonderplanitz might have actually been somewhat scientifically accurate with that shit.
The Ganges comment had me laughing…
…until I saw Vonderplanitz’s name.
Then, my gag reflex kicked-in, when I recalled the video of him eating all those rotting meats.
There’s an anti-vegan guy on YouTube that is gaining some popularity lately, carrying on the Vonderplanitz torch. In this video he apparently eats 3-year old chicken, lol. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q9fcVNb2-tg
Oh, FFS! I’m gonna puke!
I’ve seen some of his YouTube videos and his back-and-forth with the vegans. I think YouTuber “Vegan Gains” went after him pretty hard (as he does for everyone else).
In the description of the Sv3rige video, it said they were also in Palm Harbor. It’s too bad you didn’t have the change to invite him down to see you. You guys could have left some raw meat in the trunk of the car all day and had it for dinner.
Imagine getting a fecal transplant from that guy…
Ah yes, Sv3rige lol. He’s batshit crazy, of course, but I can’t stop watching his videos. He thinks the world is flat, that there are only a billion people on Earth, that cancer is actually good for you lol, and that secret masons and NWO spread veganism to control us.
Every now and then though, he’ll say something interesting. That’s why vegans can’t stop hate watching him lol
I didn’t realize Sv3rige is a flat-earther! But, I’m not totally surprised. His brain is probably full of maggots from all the rotting food he eats.
As for the other stuff he believes, well, he’s got too many bats in his belfry.
Here is something to read that was just posted today. https://cowseatgrass.org/2018/05/09/are-you-running-on-empty/
THANK you for posting that link!!! WOW ! going back to re-read it again….
The calorie model insists on positing a closed system where none exists. Humans are open, non-equilibrium , dissipative systems! Dr. Gavin Crooks (top expert in thermodynamics)AGREES 100% with Urgelt and me. Guyenet is ABUSING thermodynamics to blame obesity victims. Lyle et al should bury their heads in the ssnd and be ASHAMED of themselves! They have been DEFRAUDING READERS FOR OVER A DECADE!
ACTUAL experts do N O T agree with Stephan Guyenet and his exploitation of physics. Crooks STRESSED obesity is NOT, NOTK NOT a physivs issue. He emphasized it is a BIOCHEMICAL TOPIC.
The other sin of the calorie model does not even attempt to explain many , many observations. Genuine scientists know this. I have written to them. Ignoring evidence and observstions is a good way to get your theory killed.
Urgelt and I LAUGH at Lyle et al’s ignorance.
The immume system is going to be HUGE in obesity. You heard it here first. Sciemtists stick their neck out, as Feyhnman and Einstein stressed…. Given what I have peesonally seen in frke ds with immume diseases and given Dr. OxSheaxs resultszI will stick my neck out. Currently it is knkwn that 40% of how oir bodies regulate fatnessis through IMMU EMSYSTEM. Guye et NEVER speaks of this! (Not to my knowledge at ,
least
Guyenet and Lyle tell us NOTHING NEW, they defend andrehash old outdated assumptive models. They habe made ZERO, and I mean, ZERO, progress simce 2008. None.
Meanwhile genuises like Dr. Friedman habe discovered many more single gene defects kwhich WILL CAUSE extreme onesity IRRESPECTIVE of how muxh you eat) and Dr OxShea has discovered how important the IMMU E SYSTEM is to body fatness. Jimmy Mokre likely has a genedefect. People pick on him-they are ge erally low intelligence, like CarbSane
The caloroe mldel is a damn disgrave and insult to people suxh as Robin quivers who took strong cancer drugs and got very fat from them. Calorie model is laughable. In her case (and other people with serious diseases) , tragic. I am glad she is still with us.
Dr. Donal O’Shea is on record in articles stating that the useless nostrum ,” eat less, move more is N-O-T how it works.” Regarding body fat regularion in obese or even normal people. Dr. Friedman echkes this that eat less, move mkre is a silly 2,000 year old nostrum and NOT how this works. Scientists on rhe cutting edge,keeping up with CONTEMPORARY findings knkw this.
Somebody needs to tell the totally incompetent James Fell, Richard Nikoley, Stephanie Guyenet, Lyle McDonald and CarbSane. Cream of the crop scie tists admit “eat less, move morec is NOT how this works. People will not give this up and let it fol that is THEIR failing.
Prof Kraiss has a recent interview where he says there is evidence that the principles that govern biology MAY VERY WELL BE DJFFERENT than those that govern the universe, tables, chairs, planets etc. Google it. Closer To Truth
I watched a couple of Urgelt’s youtube videos – but, which ones are the ones to watch that will tell what his weight loss solution is (I got, no more PUFA’s ). thanks-
a bit confusing, b/c urgelts video #2 talks about calories, reducing calories. ??
Hi b,
Yes, I know. That was before he really looked into it. The video is called “Obesity And Prejudice” by Urgelt. Read the comments by hi especially the comment section, it is even better than the video.
There is no conservation of MATTER principle or law in physics. NONE. Somebody really needs to confront James Krieger, Nigel Kinbrum, CarbSane amd James Fell and possibly Stephanie Guyenet. Most of them have used this or implied it. There is only a conservation of energy pri ciple. What is energy? It is a NUMBER, a totally abstract characteristic , as Alan Guth stresses on New England Physics Misconceptiins site. Matter is STUFF. Energy has no existence in itself . Just some bookkeeping fictiin we use. This conservation of this NUMBER energy- DOES NOT APPLY to expanding universe, NOR to aspects ofmGeneral Relativity as Sean Carrol notes Google v “Energy Is Not Conserved Sean Careoll “. PhysicsGirl on YouTube has a great video about the LIMITS of our invented laws.There ate SPECIAL CASES in physics. Physics is NOTdone by FIAT, NOR is any law sacrosanct…Recently there is steong speculation tje laws of physics ECOLVE WITH TIME. Dirac, Feynman and others thought it very well may be. Perimeyer Institute has a great lecture on this.
Humans are NOT closed systems. The calorie model is wrong, it does NOT “have to be true.”…… CI/CO or CICO is a stuoid acronym invented by fitness industry and not even part of physics or biology…. It has taken on a life of its own. It is total abuse of physics.And biology.
Guyenet et al have
to STOP misleadi g readers about physics.as prof Kriass notes, physjcs may turn out to be a n ENVIRONMENTAL scie ce which woukd be disappointing to him Poop for brains, Lyle McDonald once said to me , “Thermodynamics explains rhe universe. He is SO CONFUSED AND IGNKRANT he is beyond laughable. He is no furu, he is a physics illiterate clown salesman. I am happy to expose him. l despise these gurus. Urgelt told me yeats ago they are ALL FRAUDS.
Tell Krieger there is NO-NO-NO conservation of MATTER (as he is using it) in physics. Matter is created all the time in the quantum vacuum. The first law of thermodynamics does Not at all deal with matyer. It deals with energy, a NUMBER. Claiming that matyer cannot be created kr destroyed is wrong, wrong wrong.
I am so tired of these a@@hole gurus tryint to SOUND authoeitatibe and abusing physics, Urgelt hates it too.
Calories are literally invented fiction. There is a host of this invented fiction-joules, ergs, kilowatt hours, inverse fermions -none of these fictions are A-N-Y different tha calories.We do not need any more invented units! Use one common unit for all-everything. All these units are the SAME. Calories, inverse fermions, kilowatt hours are EXACTLY THE SAME. They’re ALL EXACTLY THE SAME! ZERO DIFFERENCE. Please TELL Krieger and Guyenet! They are uneducated on the topic. There is nothing special about calories, nothing intrinsic to food about them. Calories could be ABANDONED TOMORROW. In fact, some physicists would like that-the calorie is an old, outdated, antiquated unit. We have far too many units already, it is absurd and an embarrassment , said Richard Feynman himself. No human or animal seeks calories because they do not exist and mean nothing to your body. NOR can energy or calories or inverse fermions do ANYTHING to human cells. Energy and its units CANNOT ACT, CANNOT ACT on human body in ANY way. I am on tge FIRMEST of ground about this topic. Please educate Guyenet-he is MISLEADING readers. Can “lithe”, “jittery” , “spindly”, “chubby” or “huge” act on human cells? Obviously not… Same with energy-it is a totally abstract human invented characteristic, attribute/property etc. Physicists know this. Humans and animals are seeiing something else-carbon and nutrients.
Calories, which are entirely made up/invented FICTION are NOT ANY KIND OF EXPLANATION for obesity and fat cell chemical behavior , nor dysregulation! Guyenet cannot grasp this.
Matter (stuff) and energy (strictly useful fiction, totally abstract invented characteristic) If you ever hear somebody say , “Made of energy”, you will know immediately it is nonsense. You cannot make an “energy beam.” Physicists emphasize this. That is like saying you can make a “spindly beam”, a beam “made of spindly.” I see the misuse of energy constantly by Lyle McDonald and Stephan Guyenet. Feynman noted he saw the term energy thrown around incorrectly. Energy does NOT make things move, contrary to what laymen believe. Feynman had a great article about this.
Humans eat to replenish carbon supplies. Carbon is stuff, matter, an actual part of Nature. Calories, joules, ergs, inverse fermions are not anything…..Just invented fiction. Calories versus carbohydrates or/and fatty acids is plain stupid. There has to be COMMON STUFF-REAL STUFF that BOTH fats and carbohydrates possess.ACTUAL ENTITIES. Carbon is one of them. There is no such thing as “calories.” We need to SPECIFY EXACTLY WHAT we are talking about and comparing.People EAT ATOMS-STUFF, NOT calories. When you eat food, you are NOT eating something or some thing called calories (nor joules or inverse fermionsl. Feynman emphasized this.
There is NO DIFFERENCE in saying “calorie rich food” versus “Inverse fermion rich “food.SAME EXACT statement. Rich with WHAT EXACTLY? Those units are not ANYTHING, Just invented fiction.~ Feynman , the man himself , called calories and inverse fermions INVENTIONS on video in a lecture. Energy, itself, is just some number humans compute for convenience… Energy , itself, has no existence! There is no such stuff, thing or entity as “pure energy.” I cannot stress enough that “energy” is A STRICTLY A HUMAN INVENTED BOOKEEPING DEVICE , NOTHING MORE WHATSOEVER -and to call out Guyenet , Krieger, McDonald CarbSane, Hall, and Lagakos publicly on their GROSS MISCONCEPTIONS about energy and what it is. They are beyond confused. Peter M. Brown over at The Naked Scientists forum has an excellent discussion he started asking laymen what they THINK energy is and why. Energy is NOT-NOT “the ability to do work.”All professional physicists laugh at these dopey gradeschool textbooks. Even college textbooks get the definition wrong.
~My main point is that humans do NOT eat something or some thing called calories.
~Humans do not seek “calories” anymore than they seek inverse fermions. Invented fictitional units mean NOTHING to the human body. Calories are not.. anything…, nor can they act on a human body. Humans seek food, fuel , carbon, nutrients, stuff.
~Calories are NOT heat (nor are kilowatt hours or inverse fermions), as dopey Lyle et al think…. Caliries are UNITS , NOT special and one unit among many, many invented fictitional units
~Not a single calorie or kilowatt hour etc. EVER MORPHED from fictional characteristic into MATTER -bodily human fat or muscle tissue
~Now, heat, infrared radiation etc. is part of the electromagnetic field, the electromagnetic spectrum. Heat , being radiation, can act.We are burned from the UV sunlight, for instance . This is DIFFERENT from made up units of energy. We cannot see heat like some snakes can but we feel it as Feynman said while talking about light and wsves. X rays, UV rsys, cosmic rays, infrared heat, radiowaves-all from the electrical field. Just different lengths of these waves. Radiation , while not matter, IS STUFF. Such is N. O. T. the case for energy or its units
“Humans do not seek ‘calories’ anymore than they seek inverse fermions.”
hahaha — Awesome!
Whatever the hell Inverse Fermions are, I’ll take some, provided they’re covered in butter, syrup, and powdered sugar! :-)
Me too, Carl. I love pancakes or “pan kek kees” as I call them affectionately LOL !!!!!!!!
Hi Matt, too.
I am EXACTLY the same way. If I ever restrict good tasting foods- it will make me want them MORE. Leading to preoccupation and or eating more than I would normally. Terribel tasting food leaves me RAVENOUS and thinking alllll day about it. TERRIBE strategy for millions. Guyenet is ignoiring all of these responders.
Linda Baocn has very good research about it. Guyenet is living a PIPE DREAM if he believes this will solve or treat obesity. It won’t . I ASSURE HIM!!!!!
Even gastric bypass is largely a failure and dfoes not work anywhere near as well or effectve as ADVERTISED- the exact words of Dr Friedm,an. Nor does it slightly work by “eating less.” Rather , it is the chemical cocktails created and the damage done ( and neural circuitry)( this involuntary regulatory system- somewhat “positive damage or- ” alteration” is a better word” that helps. But it still largely fails.Guyenet , in 2010, KNEW BETTER THAN THIS. That is why I am soooo DISPLEASED and DISAPPOINTED in him. He is a Taubes bashing semi-crank. A WILLFUL spewer of stuff he knows to be wrong, such as the simplsitic overeating mantra. Having a Ph.D. does not mean much of anything, most Ph.D.’s never ever create new in formation, just average workers,.Such is the case with Stephan Guyenet- he has made NO progress whatsoever in a decade. Nor will he as long as he has his current attitude. Continually asking what cheese the moon is made of is NOT something Newton did. Newton ( and Tauibes) asked GOOD QUESTIONS ,. Asking the right questions is essential to solviong scientific problems. This is why Feynm,an saiod THINK LIKE A MARTIAN who has never seen such a problem.
There is NO REASON in the first place to resrtict taste bud pleasing foods . I think it is a pretty rare situation where somebody has a particular food that they literally will eat tons of- tons and tons. Where they just cannot stop and are super, super glutons. I love pizza but I stop farrrr shy of ever eating the full large pizza. I kn ew in my life one or two very lean gluttomns as kids. My own dad engaged in this nonsense,. relatives would verify alllllll he had at buffets in Florida. I am talkign SEVEN SERVINGS. My dad was 5′ 9″ 135 pounds at the time. ( age 15 or so maybe 17) Seven serviongs SEVEN- THEN DESERT !!!!!! O…. M… G …
Guyenet’s Food Reward is BOLLOCKS. I believe it is willful disingenuous bollocks, too, JUST to be contrarian to Taubes. I dislike Colpo ( not as much as McDonald though) vbut I ADMIT he has a case with iron and CAD and the way he stresses the importance of magnesium is correct.
Friedman, O’Shea ,Gordon,. Liebel – none of these guys even talks about Food Reward…..It is a dead end and was debunked years ago. Stephan Guyenet is taking us back decades. He has trulty regressed in his career alllll over some Taubes versus Guyenet spat. it is beyond sad. I really hope he comes to his senses and gets back to his 2008 mode of investigation – not that he ever was great – but he was reasonable then.
Taubes is an idiot. Anyone who bashes Taubes is ok in my book. You said Guyenet hasn’t solved anything in a decade. Neither has anyone else. Nutrition science is a failed science.
Nutritional science is indeed weak and failed. However, at least Taubes asks hard hitting questions. Guyenet has REGRESSED WILLFULLY , he knew better than this in 2010. His borrowed Food Reward ( not his idea)
Food Reward model will literally will lead nowhere, and has led to nowhere. It is utter outdated garbage. He would have knwon this in 2010. It is a situation of being contrarian on purpose.
Now Friedman, OShea, l;ebel et al HAVE- HAVE made progress. Fruiedman has identified many more single gebne defects that led to obesioty. What’s MORW is that FRIEDMAN IS ACTUALLY LOOKING IN THE RIGJHT DIRECTION. Guyenet is NOT AT ALL looking in the rigth direction, NOR askign the rigth questions-as Isaac Newton felt was MOST important. ASK the hard hitiing “right questions”. THINK LIKE A MARTIAN said Feynman. ( When stumbling or stuck on a propblem)
Guyenet et al CONTIMUE to ask WHAT CHEESE IS THE MOON MADE OF then propse various options over the eyars- provol;one, no, no it;s SWISS! LOL!!!!
Tauesn is intelligent. I know for a fact that Davod Gross highly ADMIRES him. David Gross is a physics legend by the way,.
The Blogpshere does not understand what “laws” are:
Here is David Gross- 100 times smarter than Guyenet: Take this and SHOW it to the smug banning charlatans mcDon ald and Guyenet
“David Gross Do The Laws Of Physics EVEN EXIST”?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c1HHFlfVIJs
HE IS MOST QUALIFIED TO SPEAK!!!!! NOT GUYENET!!!!!
~~~~~World class phsycists AGREE WITH ME FULLY on energy- they do NOT agree with GUyenet, McDonald, Colpo, CarbSane or any other Tauebs basher even remotely.~~~~~~ If I mention thast I am banned,. THese Taubes basjers are FRAUDS, TOTAL FRAUDS AND DISINGENUOUS.
( I understand low carb is not the answer for everything and obesity is farrrr more complexd and I understand insulin, WHILE IMPORTANT, is only one homone vs. many, plus the immune system’s involvement. I try to esat LOWER carbs- too much sugar raises risj for PANCREATIC CANCER , it also OVERWORKD the pancreas. We MUST keep our pancreas rested and healthy. They cannto do anything for
what Patrick Swayze aquired.
Guyenet , mcDo0nald et al – they are charlatans who are absuing energy. In fact, world class physicists WERE THE FIRST TO TELL ME , to educate ME, that “energy” is NOT, NOT, NOT,NOT stuff of ANY, ANY sort. I am grateful;. At one time I held the miscocneptions, too. It is a toally invented CHARCTERISITC. It is for tidy bookkeeping and convenience.
Here is even more support from Alan GUth at the “New Engl;and Physics Mscocneptions” ( have a LOOK! ) website where he says “energy is ONLY just a charcterisitc OF other actual things and stuff. Energy is mathematical abstarction, nothing more whatsoever. “Pure energy” is PURE NONSENSE.It is abuse of physics by laymen.
And here is retired competent physicist, Peter M. Brown, trying to educate the pubic about “energy”. Take this info and CHALLENGE these IGNORANT LOW I.Q. Taubes bashers – such as Guyenet et al. THEY ARE ALL WRONG about “calories,.” Everytime you hear calorie, REPLCAE IT with INVERSE FERMIIONS. LOL ! NO DIFFERENCE.
You will see how stupid the whole misuse is. ALL of them are ignorant and misusing energy. Peter is disabled unfortunately these days but has plenty of time to correct laymen. Be careful to pay attention to PETER’S ANSWERS and comments ( he knows what he is doing) ,. ignore the other laymen who are arguing and have no points. Peter’s p[osition is CONGRUIENT with Alan Guth’s ( world class) ELITE top tier physicists and cosmologist! Guyenet is a thuid rate or forth tier scientist. NOT all scientists are equal. Weinberg is ELITE.
https://Wwww.thenakedscientists.com/forum/index.php'topic=67135.0
Lyle McDonald and GUyenet are not nearly as smart as Gary Taubes, especially that room temp I.Q. Lyle,.. I have had eprsonal conversatiopns with McDonald and he totally misunderstands energy and is MISLEADING GREEN rube readers.
I quit dieting over 5 years ago…after a 6 month low carb famine and gain all that I’d lost and gained back to my highest the first time I quit dieting…to a total of 100 pounds over my natural weight. After stopping gaining, it took all those years to stop waiting too long to eat when hungry, or ignoring hunger because of location…grocery shopping, etc taking hours and waiting until I got home another hour and then unloading the car.
I stayed the same weight, but was also experience frequent edema in the legs (5-7 pounds), so much it would make my pant legs tight by the end of a work shift. Then take nearly a week to get it somewhat under control and then back again. I could find no reason for it. Yet, I was also experiencing reflux nearly all day…even with bicarbonate to combat it somewhat.
THEN, I was looking up non-medication ways to CURE reflux and found D3. Not overnight, but over many weeks to months. The person who praised it so highly had even worse reflux pain than I did over several years. On top of that it .her recent bladder leakage.
.
So, I tentatively started taking it. IOW I took it here and there not really trusting it and more or less forgetting. In previous comments above I mention I found Jeff Bowles articles and read everything on all his sites.
Got serious and took high dosages with magnesium and the reflux started to improve. Surprise, so did the edema. And the bladder leakage.
Another surprise, so did my appetite most recently. I am so picky now, I am still wondering how that happened. I am losing weight without effort. Eating what sounds good when I check in before preparing food.
At times deciding I’ll have something that my gut tells me it will tolerate, and then discover I can only eat a few bites and have to eat something considered junk food…with more carbs and salt.
I cannot binge/overeat on anything…and haven’t for months now. But it wasn’t until April that I don’t want much of anything.
I have that 100 pounds to lose, so I’ll take it.
I realize that consensus here about D3 is it’s dangerous. Without magnesium is truly is. Without K2 or K7 I believe less so than magnesium.
At any rate my body is now self regulating despite some most current posts claiming the body is too stupid to figure out it’s needs. The D3/Mg has now given me that …no more painful reflux from just drinking plain water and a now seldom minor reflux that can be ignored and correct itself if I ate something knowingly a wrong decision. I had checked in with my gut and did an override. Simple as that.
Children follow their gut and refuse to eat what no longer tastes good and refuse to clean their plate even if they get threatened with no dessert.
There is a diet The Weigh Down —over the top religious. with a basic guide to how to eat at each meal without restriction of any foods or food groups that explains this in detail, but I could not do it without D3/Mg. Now I do eat this way. And I only reference it because I know what the guidance is. Eat the best parts and stop when tired of that food and eat what still tastes good…including a dessert…even if dessert is the best thing…eat that first. Don’t bother eating the burnt parts or the crust of a pie if you don’t want it. Stop when nothing tastes good anymore and you are full. Do not shovel in food, just sit down and enjoy it…even in front of the television. Even if truly enjoying your food is only when eating alone. You don’t need to even think about intuitively eating, just enjoy it…only the best bits.
She emphasizes that God doesn’t make junk food….that all food combinations are allowed. Wheat flour, eggs, salt, sugar leavening are good foods that in various combinations could be pancakes, cookies, cake, breakfast cereal. If you want cookies with milk for breakfast, what’s the difference from eggs with toast, butter, jam?
I’ll stop now.
Yay, I sayeth unto thee, I hath found the following:
http://www.weighdown.com
http://store.weighdown.com/assets/pdf/wd_basics_workbook.pdf
I found an interesting summary of the diet on WebMD.com:
“What You Can Eat and What You Can’t
The Weigh Down Diet is about how much you eat, and not about foods you must eat or avoid.
Listen to your body, notice when you’re full, and stop eating. Those concepts apply regardless of faith.
To find out what hunger feels like, The Weigh Down Diet recommends that you don’t eat anything until your stomach grumbles. Then eat something you love, even if it contains salt, sugar, or fat. You’re encouraged to eat regular food, rather than diet food. Experiment first by cutting your normal portion in half.
Eat slowly, concentrating on flavors and textures, and learn to stop when you start to feel full; don’t wait until you’re stuffed. Wait until you feel hungry to eat again.
The book suggests eating your favorite foods first, because you may feel full at any time. If you fill up on less favorable foods to start, you may feel compelled to keep eating to taste what you really love. Keep in mind, though, that if your favorites aren’t good for you, you may not meet your nutritional needs.
Alcoholic beverages are permitted in moderation.”
I’m glad the D3/Mg combination is working for you, AnnB. You’ve made some significant improvements.
I have followed Weigh Down since about 2004, other then a few forays into raw foods diet, Paleo diet. Those never lasted long. Always came back to the Weigh Down principles. I just ignore the religious extremes of the author of course.
Never done the weigh down but I’ve done intuitive eating, and it just makes things OCD for me. The check ins become obsessive, and I feel hunger even more than usual. I’ll read it though.
Yeah I read the research on vitamin D. I was ready to go all in when the news came out: vitamin D by itself is dangerous! Take it with Magnesium duh! Now this month I’ve been reading that you can’t take Magnesium without Calcium. Apparently, they have to be in a certain ratio to each other. Plus, don’t forget K1&2! You see what’s happening? They’re making it up as they go along. Who knows what other rules will pop up for taking vitamins? They’ll say no, you can’t just take vitamin D with Magnesium in the correct ratio to calcium, you also have to take Cobalt in a 1:14 ratio to selenium, but make sure that selenium is at least the square root of pi, and no more than the circumference of the sun, cubed, while making sure that you balance that selenium with a Plank length of copper…
It’s all jibberish. Nutrition science is at the level of shamans and reading tea leaves now. Maybe in 500 years they’ll actually have some solutions.
First post AND four hundredth! :-)
Shit, 400 comments means I better write a new post. I guess my third viewing of Cobra Kai season 1 can wait.
A new post? Yes, please.
Yeah, 400+ comments came pretty quickly. It’s still trailing “The Metabolic Zone” post (542 comments), but the gap is still closing.
Are there any remaining topics you want to write about? Initially, I was thinking maybe the Ketogenic diet, but perhaps there are better options.
Hit the pause button, grasshopper, sharpen your #2 pencil, and wax (on) philosophic!
Sweep the lick!
The next post I’m planning will be titled something like, “The Double-Edged Sword of ‘Find What Works for You.'”
Write that new post! Strike first, strike hard…
Nice Anna!
I LOVE the whole Karate Kid movies. The scenery, the time etc. I was just a very young elementary school kid ( lower levels in 1987ish. That sensei instructor was a great actor. THose movies bring back my earliest memories.
A little off topic but I just noticed, I believe M.J. is 0 for 9 against Bird in playoffs. Wow. Bird was truly excellent. 1986 Celtics knew how to play the right way- I was just far too yong to watch or appreciate them then.I havwe to give you credit, Matt, for first prompting me to check this out.
Matt, have you ever critiqued this article https://jackkruse.com/emf-4-why-might-you-need-carbs-for-performance/ or any of his other writings ? If you have can you point me to it? I’m new here and am just starting to read your material. Some of the Kruse stuff seems ok, some of it I have no idea what he’s talking about!
Thanks,
Shane
You mean Jack Karnival Kruse? haha
I have few comments about Kruse. He’s just a more sciencey-sounding Dave Asprey at best.
Hey Matt, thanks for replying. I’m afraid I don’t know why you referred to him as ? karnival ? Kruse. I haven’t read enough about Asprey to make the connection. I only know him with regard to Bulletproof coffee. I guess I need to read up on these guys a little more. Thanks
Shane,
Allow me to retort:
http://www.cruiselawnews.com/2012/05/articles/weird-cruise-news/bioterrorism-tweet-leads-carnival-cruise-line-to-kick-dr-kruse-off-low-carb-cruise
http://www.fathead-movie.com/index.php/2012/05/17/the-cruise-and-kruse-report
https://freetheanimal.com/2012/05/dr-jack-kruse-booted-from-carnival-2012-low-carb-cruise.html
Personally, I think he’s nuttier than squirrel shit.
Ahhh, I see. Yeah, he seems more than a little off from what I’ve been reading. I think he likes yes people. Whenever I hear someone say over and over not to believe in gurus they usually want to be your guru. He seems to me to be that type. Thanks for the links.
The Karnival reference is to Carnival Cruise lines.
It’s a good word to describe Kruse because he’s kind of a mad scientist, spinning complex webs of wild theories. To me he’s David Wolfe dressed up in sciencey language.
Ok Matt, gotcha on the Karnival thing. Wow, bizarre.
Not necessarily relevant to the above post but wholly relevant to the wider issue of seeking to cure everything with diet…. I have always had good skin and never suffered from acne/spots etc, just dryness in winter. lately I’ve become accustomed to carrying protein bars (what I call a massive success after being so fucked up with perfect eating for years) for convenience and because they fill me up if I am having a busy day. I’ve also noticed the past few weeks that I have permanent spots on my chin and jawline. I can’t be sure the two are linked, but it’s the only thing that’s changed in my lifestyle and I’ve heard about soy being likely to cause hormonal disruption before. My main worry is not so much that I have a few spots, but rather that they’re indicative of some other issue I’m causing..and of course the spots could be completely benign and I am over analysing everything. I am particularly worried about getting diabetes and/or PCOS as my mother has both so I have been pretty conscious of that when making food choices. It had always been carbs and sugar I limited though, and reading about PUFAS being more likely to cause issues has confused me. It makes sense, but nutritional dogma has been ingrained in my head and I think it becomes so baffling. Juuuuust when you think you know, you realise you know absolutely nothing!
David Gross highly admiores Gary Taunes scientific intellect:
Here is Gross debunking the position Guyenet et al hacve:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c1HHFlfVIJs
Peter M Brown also debunks GUyenet and McDonald ( indirectly) . Peter educates the public on what energy is:
https://www.thenakedscientists.com/forum/index.php'topic=67135.0
World class phsycists first educated ME that energy IS NOT AT ALL, AT ALL ANY kind of thing or stuff whatsoever! It is a NUMBER, totally abstarct mathematical FICTION we assign to objects.
Show this to McDonald et al. Confront them. I want to make clear that world class phsycist AGREE WITH ME COMPLETELY NOT – NOT GUyenet about energy. GUyenet does not want all fo you to KNOW THIS, He is running a RACKET FOOLING readers!
CICO is NOT science aNOR phsycs , NOR is it correct. it is a silly fitness industry expression. Inverse fermions In vs. Inverse fermions out. NONSENSE.
WE EAT ATOMS ATOMS ( matter) must be EXCRETED, physcially REMOVED from a human body to lose matter. Biochemical processes HOW OUR BODIES HANDLE AND ABSORB atoms is NOT addressed by some copnservation of energy princple- abstarct mathematiccs for bookkeeping. I have TALKED to TOP TIER thermodynamcis experts. THEY ARE NOT on board with GUyenet. They stated to me obesity is a BIOCHEMICAL PROBLEM NOT- NOT thermodynamics.
DID YOU KNOW that MUCH of what we eat is WASTED? We are very inefficient as world class NObel physicist told me. i can forward you the mail.
The expression CICO is NOT AT ALL any kind of accurate DESCRIPTION of what is going on- actual mechanisms and not even REMTOELY ANY EXOPLANATION (
most important goal- explanation) .
As Weinberg said, you CAN NEVER use “energy” TO EXPLAIN phenomenona, especially BIOLOGICAL disease of obesity.
I honestly don’t understand your hatred of the term calories. It’s a useful term, even though it may not be “real”. Instead of saying glucose and fat every time, you can just say calories. Think of it as money, there’s a price for moving muscles, running organs, etc, and you “pay” with a currency called “calories”. Simple. Body fat is your savings account. If you earn enough money, there’s no need to tap into your savings.
Here is the trillion dollar QUESTION: “Can we INFER from the conservatiopn of energy principle the behavior and regulation/dysregulation of mammalian fat cells.”
The answer is NO, NO and NO!!!!
CICO is a useless nostrum, a silly fitness industry MEME. It is not physics or science. In fact, the CICO weirdo salesmen are POSITING a closed sytem where NONE EXISTS. That is a primary sin of this incorrect model. It also ignores severe obesity in destitute poverty and tumors in destituie povery,. woprld record height holders living all their lives in destitue poverty. The ULTIMATE TEST. Ignorign observatioans is a GREAT WAY to get a theory killed.
Most Taubes bashers call them selves “skeptics” , theya re really CYNICS and contrarians. We have MUCH REASON to0 be SKLEPTICAL of the claorie mdoel which Tuises IS. Sure, he can be in love with his own model BUT HIS GREAT ACCOMPLISHMENT is questioning the calorie /inverse fwermion etc. etc. model , which is DEAD HORSE.
***There are cosmetic procedures using electromagnetic radiation for fat loss-NOTHING to do with exercise or eating. Plus, direct removal via surgery of these atoms. E.M.R. damages fat pads in mice etc.
Inverse fermion in vs inverse fermions out. Kilowatt hours in vs. kilowatt hours out- NONE of those are any kind of useful description or explanation or obesity abd fat ceell regulation GONE AWRY.
Inverse fermion rich food,. calorie rich food. RICH…. WITH…. WHAT? WHAT EXACTLY? One must NAME exactly the matter, the stuff they are talkign about. Calories are FICTION.
Rich with fat or glucose or both.
Both fat and glucose are rich with CARBON. The common thread. Comparing low carb versus “calories” is dumb. They have to be comaring STUFF versus STUFF. Not stuff versus made up fiction. Calories are NOT special whatsoever. They are no different than inverse fermions, egs, joules, kilowatt hours or foot pounds. There is NO THING or NOTHING instrinsic to food called calories.
Food is matter. We humans ASSIGN a number to it.
Body fat does NOT operate that way, liek a bank account Tauebs has poinetd this out as well- Kudos to him. Fat operastes lie a TUMNOR in the oebse, the IMMUNE SYSTEM is involved.
. The body HOARDS fat tissue witjh obesity and MUSCLE is ravaged. fat is the last to go. That is why a severely obese eprson put on a deszert island with zero food- zero available would DIE of starvation and never get lean- he would lsoe muscle in a major way eventually.; The Zucker rat will ravage msucle andbnrain tissue and die super fatty- they have been cut open and this was observed. Nothing in physics says fat has to be ravaged- nothing. No principle at all.
Obesity is biological. s Dr Krauss has noted on Cloer To Truyj the “laws” that govern biology- there IS evdience they are DIFFERENT than the prioncioples that govern the universe- planets etc.
WE MAY NEED NEW laws to figure out how biology works as he said.
There were no obese people at Auschwitz. Morbid, but you get the idea.
There was no obesity in poverty until very recently, when they gained access to cheap and highly palatable foods when predatory food corporations went looking for new “sales opportunities” and found it in impoverished 3rd world countries.
Hate to burst your Taubes bubble but to of his NUSI studies hilariously bombed. They were funded, run and overseen by himself, so he can’t even blame it on the secret vegan cabal allegedly running American medicine, or the evil ghost of Ancel Keys. Lately he’s been pivoting towards bashing processed foods instead of carbs, a.k.a food reward.
So obesity is a disease state and works like a tumor? What happened to the Linda Bacon “health at every size” b.s.
Finally, I agree that “why are people overeating?” Is a better question to ask, but the answer will never not include “eat less”. One of the whys is restriction, as Matt has successfully argued. Another why is food reward. There are many whys, but the how (to lose weight) will always be eat less. If never create a deficit of calories, or “carbon atoms” if you prefer, then why would the body ever tap into it’s store of carbon atoms?
As Austrian scientists in the 1930’s noted, and as Taubes mentioned in his books, fat tissue in the obese becomes dysregulated and hoards and lives for itself- like a TUMOR.
The calorie model is WRONG. It;s only the fitness industry promoting it… Humans are complex biological OPEN systems who exchange matter WITH the ENVIRONMENT. One of the incorrect calorie model’s BIGGEST “sins’ is that it posits a closed system where NONE exists.
Obesity EXISTS in destitute poverty. Thsioe with single gene defects WILL BECOME OBESE on very small amounts, as Friedman IS ON RECORD AS NOTING..
Obesity is not understood. If this were a Marathon scientists would be at the 400 meter mark ONLY and CRAWLING. All we know is that the immune system is heavily involved, genetics are supremely involved, disease states are involved and yes, even atom ingestion ( food -matter etc. has its place) is involved- BUT many obese people are NOT overeating. Many people became very fat from drugs- cancer drugs, and others or simply from gettign serious diseases , as well as immune diseases. “Eat less, move more” is nto hwo this works- NOT how fat is regulated. Itis biologcially regulated and largely involuntary. Even GUYENET ADMITTED THIS IN 2010.Dr Friedman has long said this and Dr O’Shea has too- world class researchers. We know at least that 40 % of our fat tisue regulation has IMMUNE SYSTEM INVOLVEMENT.
Many obese people never overate. And even imn the individuals who are, THEIR RESPONSE IS FAR GREATER than a normal person’s would be- their gain of fat tissue is monumental compared to being a bit paunchy like a normal human. ADD TO THIS WHY, WHY ( in the peopel who did overconsume) that person was sooooo hungry. That is not fully known.
I know many ectomorphs who overconcumed and NEVER got fat. They never get society’s wrath. It is totally unfair. I stick up for obese people becauise ALL the ones I personally know are the hardest working, reasonably eating people I know. As Dr Rosenbaumk HISMELF SAID ON VIDEO- these obese people have a DIFFERENT BIOLOGY than you and I.
Neither Taubes or I have the SOLUTION for obesity- nor does Friedman. None of us remoely claim to. All I am saying is the calorie model is dead wrong- a dead horse in science. I would bet my LIFE on it. We CAN know what is werong and keep on narrowing it down at elast.
Lyle McDonald is selling NONSENSE
VERY little scientific evdience exists ofr a behavioral model- as Urgelt noted. Read the comments in his obesity video. Urgelt has FAR GREATER INTELLECT than GUyenet, McDonald et al. He is a damn genuis. You should see the elaborate details he writtem on some topics.
I can tell you for sure that physicists LAUGH at peopel such as Lyle McDonald abusung physics to blame victimsd and to rake in profit$
Forget calories, joules, ergs, kilowatt hours totally – totally. The name of the game here is MATTER, , HANDLING of and PARTITIONING OF fat tissue’s ( rather than muscle’s) and its REMOVAL/EXCRETION and how this fat tissue is regulated/dysregulated and behaves.
Fat cells must be made to disengorge of their lipid content then BE EXCRETED. Unless this happens- nothing else matters. In the obese , fat cells HOARD. It’s a genuine disease. You could surgically remove it0 it will grow back. Or you could damage it with UV radiation etc. We MUST figure out the CHEMICAL BEHAVIOR of fat cells- it is NOT known,
Back in 2010 when Guyenet did decent work he said this PARTITIONING AND HANDLING ARE ECNTRAL FACTOR.Why do obese peopel get this CLOG in their system,? Guyenet worded it that waym, too. It was a good analogy. DYSREGULATION AND HOARDING OF FAT CELLS in the oebse MUST be solved. Tjhey have fat everywhere, wrists – loaded in every nook and cranny. The are obviously suffering from something.
The various Austrian and German scientists ( although some immoral and Nazis etc.) of the 1930’s were brilliant and on the right track- endocrine, immune, tumor like, hoarding hormonal issue. These scienists were cut from the same cloth as Einy, Planck, Pauli, Schrodinger and the like. What made them and Newton too so great? They ALL asked the RIGHT QUESTIONS.
CICO is WRONG . It is a nonsense expression. Should be thrown out.
Obesity is FAR MORE like a toilet and stop-cock valve etc. analogy. ( and even that is to simplsitic) The way fat tissue is regulated gets “totally effed” with obesity. A biologist once told me obesity and the subsequent fat cell dyregulation is more like the ball-cock or stop-cock mechanism, in the toilet and it interactions. I am not a plumber but he worded it similar to that way.
We need to STOP THINKING about calories and joules and all these INVENTED UNITS. We need to START thinking abnout obesity as the DISEASE IT IS- and the DYSREGULATION which is NOT worked out yet even remotely.
TAUBES IS FAR MORE closer to the correct STYLE of thinking than GUyenet these days. TOP , crweam of the crop thermodynamic scientisst PERSONALLY told me obesity must be looked at from a BIOCHEMICAL FRAMEWORK- NOT- NOT themrodynamics. I HAVE THE E-MAIL STILL. THIS MAN IS A LEADER IN THE FIELD and MIT scientists often copnsult him and read his recent books. he is CUTTING EDGE GENUIS- one of Dr. Gavin Crooks’ associates.
This themrodynamic In ternet bull must be put to REST, IT IS BULL and abuse of physics.
Back on August 11 2011, Stephan Guyenet penned an article at his old blog stating ( correctly) that he fully agreed with Gary Taubes that “body fatness is a bologically regulated ( involuntary )
process and NOT just the passive result of eating and activity behaviors. Guyenet even said in his article “So far, so good , no problem etc.” Guyenet , like Lyle McDonald and others are their ilk, uses the term “energy fairy.” This shows gross ignorance. I am SO disappointed in what he turned into! I think it is EXTREMELY DISINGENUOUS of Guyenet to go back on his 2011 article , as well as his 2010 Kresser interview where he did a decent job. He HAS to know better than this- it isd WILLFULL contraianism and REGRESSION. I DO recommend his 2010 Kresser interview. There, he admonishes “eat less,move more”.
There IS an involuntary system , a POWERFUL involuntary system, that regulates body fatness and defends against fat loss. This involuntary system H-A-S been DEFINITELY identified and is not going away. Friedman, Leibel, Rosenbaum, Douglas Coleman, Jules Hirsch and others were involved in this. identification over the years.This system and GENETICS has THE MOST SAY in your physique. People are different. Immune system is next. Fat bodies exist, people will have to accept this. ( And I am not even talking obesity here- just chubby people). I am an ectomorph, almost a mesomorph , but I never will have prime Mike Tyson’s thick arms no matter how hard I try. I am not willing to take drugs either.
Over a decade, many people remain very stable as far as body fat percentage. NOBODY can keep track of all the carbon atoms eaten and absorbed versus excreted. Calories are ONLY INDIRECTLY related to carbon atoms in a food. That is 12 million calories over ten years and one million or a little more over a year. YOUR BODY is keeping track. Calorie labels are off by as much as 85% , as Dr. Friedman notes in lectures. Never mind that, BECAUSE: NOBODY counts calories, NOR could they ever do it EVEN if labels were accurate….. IN ALL CASES YOUR BODY is doing this. All we can do is affect this involuntary system to a limited degree. You can EYE BALL food and take in a litte less for a short time, NUDGING YOUR BODY in a certain direction. However, this does NOT mean you are counting calories.
The “laws of physics” are what WE humans say about Nature, as Neils Bohr said. As David Gross and Feynman said, The laws of physics are “shadows on the wall of a far deeper reality. They are our very fallible gross approximations that WE THINK are how Nature works, they have been put through the sieve a bit.Our goal is to keep sticking them through and catch which ones are wrong! Feynman himself stated this, it is necessary to make progress! These “laws ” have a very limited domain. The conservation of energy principle does NOT, N-O-T hold in aspects/situtaions of General Relativity, gets squirely in other situations and does NOT hold at all in the observation of the rapidlty expanding universe! The conservation of energy is a white lie we tell to gradeschool kids. We already live in a universe where energy is NOT conserved ( on the vast cosmic scale. The conservation of energy ( this NUMBER) ONLY holds under time translational invariance, locally. As Urgelt told me years ago, challenging or questioning the first law of themrodynamics does NOT make you a crank. It has its domain of validity, BUT NOT EVERYWHERE – The first law of thermodynamics may even turn out to be a special case scenario one day in the far future as we learn more.
Why does Guyenet treat thermodynamics as sacrosanct???????????? As genuis Paul Lutus notes, the laws of thermodynamics are NOT laws, they are theories. As Weinberg notes, the ONLY time “thermodynamics EVEN applies” to a situation is IF you can deduce them from what you already know about a given system and you always have to ASK WHY they may apply. They do NOT always!
******To QUOTE Steven Weinberg ( a LEGEND- one of the greatest living physicists alive with accomplishments just under Einy:
~~~~~”Thermodynamics, itself, is NEVER the EXPLANATION of anything. You ALWAYS have to ASK WHY thermodynamics applies to the whatever system you happen to be studying. And you do this by DEDUCING THEM from whatever more FUNDAMENTAL PRINCIPLES happen to be relevant to that system. Sometimes they can, sometimes they CAN’T.” ~~~~
The Standard Model and General Relativity are both MORE fundamentals than the “laws” thermodynamics. NOE OF TJHESE ARE LAWS , THEY ARE MODELS, THEORIES , PICTURES AS DAVID GROSS SAYS- FALLIBLE, TENTATIVE. MODIFICATION TO OUR “LAWS” AND EVEN BEING WRONG IS FULLY EXPECTED IN THE FUTURE. Whether it is General Relativty or the conservation of energy etc., they are ALL APPROXIMATIONS. Extraterrestrials could very well, and likely do, have DIFFERENT models than us.
I HOPE LYLE MCDONALD ET AL. HEARD THAT LOUD AND CLEAR from Weinberg’s article called “Can Science Explain Everything, Anything?”!!!!!! LYLE MCDONALD ET AL HAVE BEEN HIJACKING, MUSUSING, MISREPRESENTING AND LYING AND ABUSING PHYSICS FOR YEARRRRRRS!!!!!! I AM HERE TO CALL THEM OUT ON IT, PUBLICLY!!!!! And to add insult to injury, GUYENET is now one of them!!!!!! Oh noes!
The “laws of physics” are NOT restrictions upon the behavior of matter, nor are “sacrosanct rules ” ( extremely important to stresss!) , nor are they mandates from us put upon Nature.
I have talked to world class physicists about this since 2008. A full decade now. I have over 100 e-mails still from them.
For more information Google search this “YouTube Physics Girl Is Energy Always Conserved” ( DOMAIN OF VALIDITY being the key point here). She is BRILLIANT.
Google seach this :”Sean Carroll Energy Is NOT Conserved”
Google search this “David Gross Do The Laws Of Physics Even Exist YouTube”
Also, there are ELITE physicists talking about what I will mention here. Closer To Truth features some interviews. Namely , that recent evidence suggests we will need ENTIRELY NEW physical principles for BIOLOGY ( biological systems ) in order to understand ourselves much better and how we work. This may be even the case for treating or curing diseases. including the disease of obesity. Without NEW principles there may be no cure. This is all uncertain so far, but there is some evdience biological systems need new principles. That the principles we feel apply to the universe and govern tables, galaxies, planets chairs MAY NOT govern BIOLOGY
Until recently, we saw no evdience YET that we needed new laws. But FEYNMAN, being the genuis he was, SAID long ago there is NO reason WHY physics principles “must” apply to or govern life. In other words, it does not “HAVE” to. And, now, it seems to be the case to delve far deeper into biological systems we may need ENTIRELY NEW principles.
THIS very well *MAY* be the case. I tried telling Guyenet, tried extending the olive branch, but this info is LOST on them.
GOOGLE SEARCH: “Closer To Truth How Much MOre To Physuical Reality”
Sorry to write so much.
Go, Razwell, GO!
You know what I had for breakfast, today???
I had an Inverse Fermion omelette that contained Kilowatts, Pounds, Miles, and Gallons!
It gave me lots of “Energy.”
hahaha!
Can you just take a spelling class jesus
Arlen Vernimo,
Relax. If you had read through this entire thread, you would notice that everyone’s posts are understandable/readable regardless of incorrect spelling, grammar or punctuation.
You will note your post has the same issues. If being the grammar police is your self-appointed job, you might want to pause and correct your own errors before sending.
haha – I believe Razzle Dazzle is often posting from a mobile device with its tiny keyboard and microscopic keys.
Can someone help me out, I can’t tell if Razwell believes in the calories in, calories out, model of obesity?
Haha, good one Rosenfelt.
Hi Carl,
LOL @ inverse fermion omelette.
With regard to understanding obesity, we should use a method that is verrrry rare- “retroductive apophatic thinking”. This is the lost art that was employed by peoples such as the Ancient Greeks. Where did genuises such as Plato, Aristotle, Simplicuis get their Ph.D. degrees etc. ? That is what I say to CarbSane.
We should use as many different methods as possible, but CarbSane, Lyle McDonald and Stephan Guyenet (The Taubes Bashers) all employ only deduction and induction in their thinking at best.
Using retroduction is a very powerful method of inquiry and investigation.
Hi, Razwell!
Thanks for mentioning ?retroductive apophatic thinking. That was a term I’d never heard. A quick Google search helped me understand it.
Unknowingly, I believe I’ve occasionally used this type of thinking. Because I often have trouble deciding among many options, I sometimes have to make a list of things I DON’T want, in order to help me clarify what I DO want.
My application may be slightly different than how such thinking might be applied to understanding obesity, but it helps me see some parallels.
“Where did geniuses such as Plato, Aristotle, Simplicius get their Ph.D. degrees?”
True!
I get a lot of my ‘wisdom’ from giants like Comicus, Torquemada, le Gar?on de Pisse, Count de Monet, and Swiftus in Mel Brooks’ 1981 film “History of the World, Part I.”
Carl- If you want to be “blown away” read “The Swerve” by Stephen Greenblatt. These ancient scholars knew a LOT more than we give them credit for! I loved the book…
Thank you for the recommendation, Lianda. I’d not heard of this title. I’ll see if I can find an audio version.
I wonder what the ancient scholars would think of the world, today? What a freakshow.
Wha do all Of the aTaunes bashing gurus (McDonald, Guyenet , Nikoley, Colpo, CarbSane have in common? They all were ONCE low carb to very low carb, they all changed their tune to HIGH carb oit of nowhere and they are all also indirect competition with Gary Taubes. Every one of them knows they are not nearly as famous
.
Urgelt told me years ago that the Internet gurus are a pack of self serving liars and it is extremeky common amomg these sa
scamming types of individuals to do complete 180 degree turnarounds in their messages and act like they never were the opposite ever.
I LOVE sugar as much as the next guy. I never was, nor will ever ne a food snob. My own style of eating feathres probabaly tooooo many days of eating processed stuff, too often. So for me to say this means something. I try to be mkderate, neither very low carb, nor high carb.
There was NO new evidence in the “less than a year ” high carb 180 that Nikoley and Colpo did.
None that they enjoyed GLOSSING OVER to suit whatever rhey were promoting. They were aware of it, they just ignored it amd never mentioned it to readers.
Colpo actually “debunked” the same study that in 2015 era supported back in an obscure 2004 low carb Australia site he wrote for.
There are advantages amd disadvantages to high carb and low carb. But I will say this, high carb is risky, too, perhaos MKRE. Sugary, super carb rich diets are linked to pancreatic cancer. They stress your pancreas and overwork it terribly. Just because keto level low carb is not necessary for many people does not mean we have to go to the other extreme. Our pancreases would nkt be happy. Insulin spiking diets ARE a risk for pancreatic cancer. This SHOULD get everybody’s attention.
All of these “gurus”were once the CHAMPIONS OF LOW CARB. What changed MONEY $$$$. The well dried up for them. That AND the fact that Taubes preached low carb, too, and they knew rhey COULD NOT compete with a guy of hismstature promoting tje same method. So, they did the OPPOSITE. Colpo was low carb in summer 2007 then in the fall im ediate turn aroumd a “180” LOL. Colpo is nkw an extreme high carb zealot. Well, he is tempting pancreatic cancer. People never think of this! Pancreatic is among the hardest to treat.
I remmber Nikoley once really bashed Mayo Clinic dieticians because they were anti Atkins etc. His post still might be up from 2008 ish , he threw some F missles and profanity at them. Now Nikoley is saying EVERYTHING the Mayo Clinic dieticians said that he BASHED them for,
Yeah, you’re absolutely right, their diets change every 2-3 years, and every single time they believe that the research supports their new diet.
Awesome, Carl. I enjoy learning from you, too! : ) Retroductuve thinking is great. Here is an example: A needle is thrown in a haystack. Induction etc. would nit be the efficient approach. Retroduction would be-the needle is metal, so we should set fire to it all and the needle will be left.
Right now I am watching the Rockets. I am seeing the Warriors air ball-Two in this game so far. Curry cannot defend a lamppost, I dislike that dude, his spoiled brat 7th grwde sissy non-chalant attitude. I know the focus , aggression and tenacity and will of the 1997 Bulls would destroy that fake , soft Warrior team. If modern teams can beat them and expose their softness, 1998 Bulls would totally break them down.Jordan was a million times more mentally tough than Wardell Curry. M.J. as he matured may have beaten 1986 Celtics. I respected Bird. Larry Legend would agree come Finals time , Jordan represented the highest standards of basketball excellence. That man bled passi8n for the game. It shined through. His fundamentals were second to noone.Total respect for M.J.
Brain dump…
1.) I found another of your devotees:
“The Eat as Much as Possible Diet
The diet I lay out below allows maximum calorie consumption with minimal body fat gain. Because basic biological functions (brain, heart, liver) are all satisfied, the body has a surplus of energy for peripheral circulation, hair growth, nails, skin, higher pulse rate, youth hormone formation, and personality. This warm, life-giving environment facilitates repair, rebuilding and laying down new healthy tissue.”
http://thelastcanary.blogspot.com/2013/07/the-eat-as-much-as-possible-diet.html
That was almost five years ago, though. I wonder if/how his perspective has changed?
————————————-
2.) After stumbling-upon the following website, due to something unrelated, I happened to find the following article:
Is There One True Diet?
http://www.kimwrate.com/One-True-Diet.html
Kim mentions that she studied diet “…in-depth for the last three weeks.” :-) In the article, she invokes – among other things – Denise Minger’s “In Defense of Low Fat” talk from a few years ago.
In Defense of Low Fat
https://youtu.be/qBBtQ4QwWxg t=32m11s
https://www.dietdoctor.com/in-defense-of-low-fat-denise-minger-vs-dr-fung
https://deniseminger.com/2015/10/06/in-defense-of-low-fat-a-call-for-some-evolution-of-thought-part-1/
One of the main points is the “macronutrient swamp.”
“…Denise talks about how there seems to be macronutrient magic zones. On one side of the spectrum, the magic zone is when a maximum of 10% of the calories you consume come from fat, and most of the rest come from carbohydrates. On the other side of the spectrum, the magic zone is when a minimum of 65% of the calories you consume come from fat.
In between those macronutrient magic zones, there lies a macronutrient swamp. This is where the conflict between fats and carbohydrates occurs.”
So, maybe that’s why Low-Fat *AND* Ketogenic camps are “right.”
————————————-
3. While making a lap around the Interwebs, I found this:
How to Change Your Body Weight Set Point
https://www.muscleforlife.com/body-weight-set-point
How could I not click on THAT title? But, admittedly, I’ve not read it. I intended to, but the article disappeared into the dozen-or-so open tabs in Google Chrome.
(I just saved it to my Desktop, so I’ll actually read it.)
————————————-
4. Finally, in a weekly e-mail newsletter that I received yesterday, there was an article about butter/fat.
Butter Is Back. Or, Is It?
https://www.dropbox.com/s/l10dn882xohwj09/ButterIsBack-OrIsIt.pdf?dl=0
I’m sure you’ve read Esselstyn, Campbell, McDougall, Ornish, etc., in your broad and deep research. What was your opinion of their evidence?
Interestingly, while many of the plant-based doctors still advocate low-fat, Michael Greger has stated that macronutrient ratios don’t matter. He’s even stated that high-fat is fine, provided it’s from whole plant foods. Joel Fuhrman has also stated that people should probably not eat too low fat.
Okay, that’s it.
Good night.
I’m VERY compelled by the ultra low fatters. Of course, they all tend to be vegans, which is probably not necessary and probably slightly harmful, especially if continued long-term. It’s also probably not good to stay ultra low fat (below 10%) long-term, especially once you’ve lost all your body fat.
I find it most compelling because it seems to be a way that people can actually lose weight without getting cold and having their genitals go into hibernation. It can also serve to eliminate a lot of stored PUFA. I think vegans who advocate higher fat from nuts, seeds, and avocado are making a huge mistake. That’s why there’s so much backlash by the lowfat vegan community against “gourmet raw” and other high-fat vegan versions. I think plant fats suck ass (except for tropical plant fats). Look at the difference in Lissa on high-fat raw vegan vs. 10% fat raw vegan. Holy shit what a difference. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nPusa-JJV8k
Agreed. I’ve been thinking more about ultra-low-fat, for temporary, therapeutic purposes.
Remember the “Newcastle Diet” from Newcastle University in the U.K.
“Promising research from a University of Newcastle team suggests that Type 2 diabetes can be cured in just eight weeks by diet alone. CURED. Their protocol is known to be effective in subjects who have had diabetes for up to 10 years, and they are optimistic about it working for some who have had the disease even longer.
The short term, very-low calorie diet was initially designed to mimic the rapid reduction of calorie intake that results from bariatric surgery?which is known to be effective in reversing diabetes very quickly. In 2011, the Newcastle researchers conducted their first study using the diet, and the results were impressive.
Participants who had diabetes for 4 years or less were placed on an 800-calorie diet. Daily food intake was limited to three liquid meal replacements (totaling 600 calories) and three servings of non-starchy vegetables (totaling 200 calories).
After 1 week:
* Pre-breakfast blood-sugar (fasting plasma glucose) levels returned to normal and stayed normal for the remainder of the study.
* Glucose production from the liver decreased, while the liver’s insulin sensitivity increased significantly.
By the end of the study:
* Fat levels in the liver and pancreas dropped
* Pancreatic functioning was restored to normal with regards to glucose sensitivity and insulin secretion.
* Average weight loss was 33 lbs (15.3 kg), which represented about 15% of initial bodyweight.
Four weeks after the study ended, average weight gain was about 6.6 lbs (3.1 kg), but normal liver and pancreas functioning continued for 7 out of the 11 participants in the low-calorie group of the study. These participants effectively reversed their type 2 diabetes status.”
https://www.ncl.ac.uk/magres/research/diabetes/reversal/#publicinformation
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3168743
Matt, can you explain why ultra lowfat is bad for lean people? Also why it might be good for fat individuals? Is it because blubbery people usually are less insulin sensitive from the randle cycle?
Like Zach has said earlier, the body needs a certain amount of fat for basic functions. When you have excess body fat, that fat comes from your stored fat. When you’re lean, if you’re not eating any fat, and you don’t have any stored fat to spare, you potentially could run into a fat shortage, or start converting a lot more carbohydrates to fat, neither of which I suspect are desirable. That’s purely theoretical, and an idea only. But it is one potential explanation for why many seem to do so well on an ultra low-fat diet for a few years (talking about the 5% fat vegans out there on YouTube, of which there are thousands), and then eventually end up losing their minds and looking like scaly lizard people, lol.
Scaly lizard people sounds like a pretty accurate description, haha. Speaking of ultra low fatter using its own body fat, what if the stored fat is mostly PUFA? Isn’t it toxic for the body to utilize those fats for functions? Or maybe it excretes the PUFA through glucuronidation with high performing liver functions?
I have said it in other threads but I can’t actually go back to zero fat anymore, my body doesn’t respond the same. I definitely need fat now that I’m as lean as I am. Most likely it’s because glycogen is not enough fuel alone, saturated fat is a constant back up. I’m not storing fat so I must be burning it like crazy.
I actually really like coconut, cocoa and olive fats for health. They all seem to have individual health promoting factors. The flip side is avacado, nuts and seed fats, they seem to be absolutely detrimental to health, they are hibernation foods.
Thanks for sharing your thoughts Zach. So if nuts and seed oils are detrimental and causes negative effects, your body somehow got rid of any stored PUFA instead of burning it regarding the positive outcomes of ultra low fat you’ve experienced right? Just like young women that eliminate their excessive estrogen through good liver function, perhaps having a high metabolism allows the body to handle PUFAs much better.