First it was Brad Pilon’s Eat Stop Eat. Every week you’d take 24 hours off from eating. You still ate every day, but there was a fast in there every week from say, dinner to dinner the following day. You could up the ante and do a couple fasts per week if you wanted.
Then it was Martin Berkhan’s Leangains. A few weeks ago I heard a completely innocent civilian mocking his personal trainer for telling him to eat all of his meals within 8 hours. It hit the mainstream folks, and I knew where that originated, as Martin and I were about even in popularity as bloggers through 2011 or so, when suddenly his “16/8 splits” idea took off fiercely.
Also popular was Ori Hofmekler’s Warrior Diet, which involved fasting for 20 hours per day–consuming all your calories in a 4-hour window.
For a while I was on a similar bandwagon with a strange health religion known as RBTI, which advocated eating only lowfat dairy and nonstarchy vegetables after 2pm each day. You couldn’t even drink water past that time. It was like being a Mogwai.
This led me to want to try eating just once per day for the first time, which I experimented with for a few months in 2012–fasting until I hit a buffet or something (where I could attempt to eat 3,000 calories or so in one sitting).
And now I see this “one meal a day” or OMAD going completely apeshit in the health fad world. It’s absolutely EVERYWHERE on the YouTubes.
*Spoiler Alert*
It works! Until it doesn’t. Like pretty much any diet.
But I’m always one to keep ahead of the trends in health and nutrition, so I’m coining the next fad right now. You heard it here first!
It’s called, “Fasting under controlled ketosis unlimited raspberries, mushrooms, entrails, turkey, and butter, only ingest Sunday/Monday.”?
That’s a long name, so I created a catchy acronym to help it set social media on fire (insert fire emoji and some 100’s and shit):
F.U.C.K.U.R.M.E.T.A.B.O.I.S.M.
FUCKURMETABOISM is, quite frankly, the perfect diet. It’s how we were meant to eat. It’s in our DNA. Telomere research has also confirmed that this diet leads to a 22% increase in lifespan in fruit flies. It has also been shown to maximize autophagy and leads to a 47% reduction in advanced glycation end products.
It’s got SCFA’s, MCT’s, RS2, K2, and buttloads of phytonutrients. Pretty much everything you need right there.
Poor satire aside, this trend of eating meals less and less frequently is pretty funny. I would not be the least bit surprised if a popular fad diet emerges in the coming years that advocates eating once every other day, once every three days, and, within a couple decades we might be lucky enough to make it all the way to OMAW (one meal a week).
And it will be the same old shit…
“I feel great! It’s so easy! I can eat whatever I want! I’ve lost weight! It’s so affordable! It’s so convenient! It’s so freeing not having to think about food all day! I’m not hungry! My energy levels and mental focus are AHH-MAY-ZING!”?
Yeah we know. We’ve all dieted before.
But this is what an amazing success story looks like after a couple years…
Awww, not so shiny is it? Unless you like gaining weight eating one miserable keto meal per day.
As always, you can try OMAD if you like. Or FUCKURMETABOISM. Or even OMAW. But I would personally recommend punching yourself in the genitals instead. It hurts, but it requires so little effort in comparison, has the same likelihood of reducing your body weight after a period of many years (very little), and won’t have any long-lasting adverse effects on your metabolism, self-esteem, social life, digestion, sexual function, or energy levels.
Okay, groin punching might have adverse effects on your sexual function, but only if you’re on steroids, therefore applying to only 94% of males under the age of 40.
Most importantly, groin punches won’t lead you to become an obnoxious loud-mouthed diet zealot posing shirtless on the internet, becoming a mini internet celebrity, and then gaining weight and living the life of a shamed, depressed, hermit with a litany of health problems afterward.
FIRST!(?)
Atta boy Carl!
I read your book Diet Recovery: Restoring Hormonal Health and have implemented your advice. I used to be on a No Plants Gaps style diet and will probably have to go back. I’m deathly allergic to gluten and react to absolutely everything. The carbs have been kicking my ass. I’m bloated to the point I look three years pregnant and to the point I can’t breathe. I have Hypothyroidism and diabetes yet I weigh 110lbs but I’m 34% body fat…. I don’t know what to do. I need help. Also to note, I did suffer from severe mold toxicity and I am still attempting to recover and detox from that. Any advice? I’m only NOT bloated and sick if I don’t eat or sip on homemade chicken stock. How can I be diabetic when I’ve eaten virtually no carbs? Still trying ti implement what you wrote about…. but it bloats me to the point to where I can hardly breathe or move and I get bad tachycardia when consuming beans or grains.
LOL.. this comment was on the video:
For 1 week, just 1 week, I am not asking you for more.
Attempt to
Do OMAD with only 800 calories a day.
No binge, no cheat.
This will kick start your motivation.
Make the CHOICE,
Take the CHANCE,
Feel the CHANGE,
for a better health.
If you want change then do it daringly.
Take CLEAR and BOLD CHANGES.
Are you man to take the challenge?
Is your love for your son stronger than your fear?
Dear god that’s a frightening comment.
Some places around the world are already on OMAW….no obesity there, lol.
It never ceases to amaze me as I look around Instagram, how many keto people are proud of the fact they haven’t eaten in 3 days. WTF? I make it right for them by eating for them — usually a big baked potato with all the fixins, followed by a bite -or several- of brownies.
Mogwai reference on point.
Right on Matt. Been there and done most of that. Learned what doesn’t work for sure.
Be nice to hear a real rebuttal to this way of eating inside of bad jokes
For starters, it’s a way of NOT eating, not a way of eating. :)
I found a new diet – laughing my ass off! (from reading your posts, Matt!)
but somehow, my ass always finds its way back….
Just like a diet!
Oh gosh. Now It goes further. I did a fasting diet in 2013-2014. It was amazing! I lost 43 pounds! And kept it off! For a year!
And then. I stayed with this diet for 6 more months, despite the fact that I was putting on sometimes 10 lbs in a month. So I shortened my window from 5 hours a day to 3, sometimes even 1 hour a day. I added hour long walks in 100 degree weather. I did 400 kettlebell swings a day. And still I gained. Now I hardly have a hunger sensation and eat maybe two meals a day, and I’m up 60lbs from my low 5 years ago. I thought I had found my lifelong eating plan, but now couldn’t buy weight loss. Thanks for getting the word out on this.
Thanks for the comment Stephanie. That is indeed the long-term result of dieting. The long-term result of not dieting isn’t anything spectacular either, but it’s better than that shit!
Anyone familiar with the snake diet? It’s sounds terrible. From what I gather you’re encouraged to fast as long as possible while drinking “snake juice”, which is a kind of electrolyte drink. It sounds so painful. It’s making it’s rounds in some Facebook groups I’m in.
The snake diet! That sounds so “cleansing!” And what a name! I gotta try that!
Great article. Did you mean to leave the “L“ out of the acronym?
I couldn’t think of an L. And “metaboism” has a couple of benefits:
1) When you say it out loud you sound like a child with a speech impediment, which is hiwawious!
2) It emphasizes the “ism,” and every proper diet religion should end with -ism.
Mawwiage. Mawwiage is wot bwings us togethuh tooday.
Mateboism really is that dweam within a dweam.
I love you Anna! Thank you so much for inserting Metaboism into an 80’s movie quote!
These diet fads are ridiculous. So are the “cleanses”. Eat enough to keep your BMR up and you have no issues hacking the daily double. Or more! Folks be gullible and lazy! They bullshit because they’re too lazy to research it.
Emily, I had 4 children. The first 2 no diet involved. I started gluten free with my 3rd due to him throwing up a lot. That lead to more dieting. I did lose 45 lbs in 2 weeks, though. Went from diet after diet. None lasting more than 2 months because they did not work. My 3rd ended up with eczema and we had Candida issues all around. On top of tons of other health issues. I would find chunks bit out of the butter. We went through 5 lbs of raisins in 2 weeks because that was the only sugar allowed in the house. We juices, we sprouted things. We were “Paleo” until I child number 4 was due in 3 weeks. I suddenly started craving things. I came across Matt’s first book, on a Paleo website, and decided to read it. I was desperate. We were sensitive to most anything edible. If we kept going, we would be able to drink water and eat ice cubes. Well, needless to say, we are not “dieting” anymore. I hate that phrase, by the way. I ended up gaining weight after giving birth, and in the hospital with pneumonia and PE. Child number 4 is the only child I was not able to lose the weight afterwards. And I know it is from dieting. My son who had eczema is now 7 and eczema free. We do not have food cravings and we are healthier. So, when you think about dieting to lose weight, just think about the weight you will gain when you stop. Sorry this was so long. I appreciate you Matt. You got my family out of the dieting rut.
Hope, thank you for sharing! It is very encouraging to hear a real story of another mother who struggled and found freedom. I’m glad you found your way out of the dieting trap. I want to model a neutral to positive relationship with food and body for my children. Thanks for spurring this on!
You’re welcome, Emily. We never changed diets for weight reasons. It was a rabbit hole for health. We kept adding to our food sensivity list. Foods that we ate regularly, we became sensitive to. I kept adjusting our diet to accomodate the sensitivies. It got tiring after 4 years. That is when I found Matt’s book. I was desperate to heal my family. And tired of finding things that don’t work. I am glad I found something that did. We now do the Bible diet. This has worked for us and it is nice.
Hilarious article!!! Thank you!
Needed this to keep me grounded. I’m 8 weeks post partum and really trying to commit to not jump on some restrict/ over exercise train. Though I wish I didn’t, I, admittedly, still have the hope that I’ll spontaneously lose some fat after breastfeeding for awhile, but I know that may not happen and I want to be ok if it doesn’t. My life is good right now with the body I have now. I know that. Thanks for the reminder that whatever perceived happiness I would get from a diet would be short lived.
Sheesh! It’s only been 8 weeks! You are very likely to experience spontaneous weight loss, but sometimes it can take a long while. It’s not until the 2nd year of breastfeeding that the fat content of your milk goes up significantly. You may not lose any fat until then.
Haha! Did my neurosis reveal itself in my post or what! Ok. Ok. Time.
After my first baby, I restricted and over exercised. It worked for awhile and I got all the typical compliments: ? You don’t even look like you had a baby! Etc? I hate that this is something people say/praise.
Of course, I gained weight when I wore myself out and couldn’t stop binge eating. I don’t want to go back there this time around. That said, my voracious breastfeeding appetite scares me at times and it is taking a lot of resolve to trust it.
Matt,
What would you recommend as far as exercise while breast feeding? I’m feeling discouraged because my temperature seems to have dropped again. I’m wondering if it may be my work outs in addition lack of sleep, stress of a new baby, energy demand of breast feeding,etc.
I find myself craving sugar hardcore at the end of the day despite eating 3 full satisfying meals. Would I do better to take a break from work outs for awhile in these early months of breastfeeding?
Emily, when you work out, do your temps get higher or lower?
When I started re-feeding, I was still working out 30-60 minutes 5-6 days per week. My temps would DROP when I worked out, from the 96’s to the 95’s (not even kidding, I’m surprised I’m still alive)and so I had to stop. This was so mentally difficult for me, but I’m glad I gave my body a break.
I recall reading years ago about what Chinese medicine says about women who have just given birth. I’m no expert, and I hope someone corrects me if I’m wrong, but in Chinese medicine, people who are sick are seen as either “hot” or “cold”. Women who have given birth are cold for three months. Family members attend to the WOMAN, not the baby, because the mom takes care of the baby but she needs others to take care of her to warm her up. If she doesn’t take that time, she will remain cold for much longer.
In our culture, women are considered “strong” and “resilient” for getting up and resuming normal life as soon as possible. We feel guilty for laying around and properly recovering when there’s so much to do! But if we try to resume normal life too soon, we often pay the price!
Sounds to me like you already know what you need to do, but would like some affirmation. Mama, it is ok to stop working out and take care of you. Go back to bed and be with your baby and don’t feel an ounce of guilt!
Ramen!!!
Sharonimo,
You’re right. My gut is telling me to give my body a break for awhile. Even if it doesn’t make my temp go up, I know it would be good for me. Thank you for the affirmation. I love that he Chinese have that custom. I wish our culture would take note.
Can I ask how long you took off working out and how long you refed? What improvements did you see when doing so? Did you begin working out again eventually?
Thanks again for your affirmation and encouragement!
Emily,
Although I had my kids back when the dinosaurs roamed the earth, I was committed to breast feeding. Back then I was thin, knew nothing about body temperature.
But I can tell you that when I exercised, or did too much physical activity, the baby would cry because there wasn’t enough milk. The most important thing you can do now is make feeding yourself and your baby the priority. And sleep when the baby sleeps. Your body is hungry and you need to eat – so eat! Then you’ll overflow with milk – AND the weight will come off if you don’t diet or over-exercise when you stop breast feeding.
Relax and let nature take over. Remember, binging comes from restriction. Enjoy your baby and this time when you HAVE to relax! LOL
Emily, I probably stopped working out for at least a year or more. I can’t tell you how tough that was psychologically because I exercising was such a huge part of my life for at least 7-8 years. I hate the gym, so I worked out from home. P90X, Insanity, every Jillian Michaels DVD, and lots more. After that break, I started going on enjoyable walks and hikes (if you’re on pavement, it’s walking, but once you hit dirt you’re hiking!). Then I added yoga back in, but again I had to do it from home because although yoga is an individual practice, my brain was still programmed for competition (because I compared my body to everyone else’s to try to feel good about myself). I also remembered how much I love to dance so I added that back in. Now, about 5 years after I started this journey, I have added in some Jillian Michaels but I don’t have the expectations I used to have. If she’s yelling at me that these workouts will make my body crazy insane sick amazing, I don’t even try to believe it because no exercise or health guru can make good on promises like that! AND, I ONLY DO 20 MINUTES. I’ve discovered that if I try to do any longer, I’m hating it, so it’s counterproductive because if you really hate it stress hormones will kick in. I exercise in ways that I enjoy. My hiking limit is about 4 miles, anything longer and I stop enjoying it.
Sorry, short story long….I probably re-fed for about the same amount of time I took off exercising, probably over a year, before I swung to the middle of the pendulum and started eating just intuitively what I wanted. I don’t eat a ton of sugar or starches or fats anymore, just what I want. I eat a cheeseburger when I want, I eat a salad when I want. I don’t stress over it.
My body temps went up, my hair stopped falling out, I wasn’t cold all the time (my husband laughs that I’m the one kicking the covers off in bed now in the middle of winter), I have sustained energy most of the day, and I enjoy life more overall. I never dropped the weight, but I stopped caring about that because I feel good! I started this journey of re-feeding because all of the sudden my weight started going up and my health started declining despite my “PERFECT WAPF EATING AND PERFECT EXERCISE REGIMEN”. Re-feeding made my weight go up even more, but brought me back to health. I’m 40lbs over when I started, but I am not about to risk my health again to attempt (and probably fail) to lose it.
I’ll leave you with this, in caps for emphasis…NOBODY THAT IS IMPORTANT IN MY LIFE LOVES ME ANY LESS BECAUSE I GAINED WEIGHT.I AM NOT ANY LESS SIGNIFICANT, VALUABLE, OR LOVABLE. Go have a good cry over that, because when I realized this truth, I sure did! You are far more valuable than the number on the scale, the stretch marks on your thighs and boobs, and the squish that has become your belly (assuming you have all these things after just having a baby!)
I started refeeding a year before getting pregnant and never dieted while pregnancy or after. I only gained 20 pounds during pregnancy and started losing weight in the fourth month, also breastfeeding. Suddenly all the weight was gone. I also was tempted to diet etc… but I noticed the effects immediately. Not that our journey has to be similar but just want to encourage you to trust and believe in you body. If it can make a human being it’s pretty awesome, don’t you think ;)
You win!! But where is the L?! LEEKS! LOVE#! LAUGHING COW CHEESE! LOL what is your whole take on this CARNIVORE thing? ala Shawn Baker (alias no longer practicing ortho surgeon)
I just posted about Shawn Baker on Facebook…
“Laughing my ass off today listening to Shawn Baker (a doctor who has been eating an all-meat diet for over a year) try to explain away the diabetes, high A1C, high BUN, low HDL, and low testosterone he has encountered avoiding all carbs. Yeah, that’s SO PUZZLING!!!”
That post is great. Being skilled in the art of verbal jujitsu, you can easily disarm others by using their own stupidity against them.
Speaking of stupidity, that Shawn Baker post made me think of Jimmy Moore.
As you know, Jimmy has ping-ponged back-and-forth between low-carb, fasting, and now (or, last I heard) ketogenic. He keeps ingesting MASSIVE amounts of fat and is completely stymied as to why his weight keeps increasing.
So much so, in fact, he has to change his narrative. He has some saying that: “It’s not about fat loss. It’s about health gain.”
But, of course, he’s not healthy.
His skyrocketing weight aside, he’s posted many blood tests that show numerous biomarkers going in the wrong (i.e. dangerous) direction. Even his own podcast guests — doctors whom he purports to respect — have encouraged him to dial-down the fad diets, but he refuses.
Despite all of this, he continues to co-author books and be invited to various conferences as, presumably, a health expert.
Truth really is stranger than fiction.
Jimmy is actually a fantastic representation of what happens when an extremely obese person tries to overcome that condition with various restricted diets. His story and timeline are completely on par with the norm, he’s just shockingly resilient in his ability to continue putting himself out there publicly and disseminate health information successfully. I have no condescending thoughts to share about him at all. In fact, I’m getting kind of tired of seeing various health gurus throw Jimmy under the bus to defend their own fad diet.
I truly feel sorry for Jimmy. I’m pretty convinced he really believes each dietary fad that comes along. That is, I don’t think he’s intentionally trying to scam anyone. If he were, it would be far easier for him to stay home and hide behind a blog or podcast and stay out of view.
Thankfully, aside from this blog coming to life every once-in-a-while, I’ve stayed-away from most “health” websites and deleted all my podcasts (except 180 Radio). So, I’m sorry to hear that Jimmy is being targeted by various health gurus to promote their own fad diets.
Finally, I apologize if my previous comments about Jimmy were out-of-line. While I don’t agree with the example he sets for his legions of followers (and, I think his wife’s health issues have stemmed from his bad advice), my previous comment may have been a bit harsh.
No apologies necessary Carl! It’s kind of crazy, but this blog used to be known for rather reckless smack talk. Now if anything, it’s more of a beacon of open-minded civil discourse. I even created a site about civil online communication recently, lol. Maybe I’ll show that to the 180D crowd someday and we can start a movement! (Raises fist)
Thanks for that understanding comment, Matt.
After a few Google searches, I found the website to which you alluded. I think that’s a noble and worthy goal. I hope you can get a lot of folks to take and honor the pledge.
I’ve naturally come to a similar place, as all the smack-talking gets really exhausting. And, it just perpetuates itself. It gets extremely adversarial. Like Joey Lott wrote: The only way to win the war is to stop fighting.
Also, getting older, I realize that I have no idea what others are going through. I could make a comment that might seem innocuous enough to me, but it might be the final straw that flips someone’s switch and causes them to harm themselves or others.
I’m a bit concerned about our society — both real and online. Maybe it’s just because the negative stuff gets the most attention, but many things seem to be unraveling.
Speaking of blasts from the past, remember Don Matesz? He was primal, then Vegan, and now he’s on the carnivore fad and he thinks plants are evil. Round and round on the carousel…
Haha. That’s hilarious about Don. Classic!
Where can I find the clip of Shawn Baker talking about his blood work?
Matt, if you think Don Matesz is hilarious check out his wife Tracy. She was the one who made Don go Vegan. I think she even wrote a Vegan “Bible” called the Garden Of Eating. Now she has YouTube vids extolling the virtues of a Carnivore Diet as something akin to being a Spirit Animal..LMAO!!!
A an awesome book title for a book about trying to get people to quit veganism would be, Eat Your Spirit Animal.
Dude, I love how vegans can’t just stop eating vegan, they have to immediately jump to low-carb RAW MEAT! https://www.youtube.com/user/sv3rige
Seriously, he has all those diseases?
Poop
Oh boy, POOP is one of my FAVORITE responses to following Matt’s ideas.
Especially after being constipated for 30 years & getting colon cancer.
Now …..oh my stars…I am so regular, great texture, smooth moves these days. I feel better and lighter every day!
Matt Stone: Plungin’ the ladies since 2006.
While punching oneself in the genitals is an appealing thought, it’s secondary to your other idea to be “…bludgeoned in the taint with a Garden Weasel.” I still use that comedy nugget.
Anyway, I feel a lot of empathy for the guy in the above video, as I do for anyone pursuing a diet. His self-esteem will likely (and, wrongly) rise-and-fall, in accordance with the needle on the scale.
Your comment that “It works! Until it doesn’t.” reminds me of my own stupid diet (mis)adventures and banging the gong of a few different dietary religions. Now, as an elder statesman in the Church of Dietary Atheism, I try to counsel new sheep in the flock, but people love their restrictive commandments.
Unfortunately, it seems we must all walk this path and find-out for ourselves and truly “get it.”
…
You made one post in March and now one in April. Perhaps we’ll see one in May? One Post A Month (OPAM)?
OPAM! That sounds doable. I’ll try!
My thoughts exactly.
I’ve been thinking a lot about going back to dieting and crazy exercising to lose some of my belly squish (vanity weight really) and then thought, why?
I like to eat.
I like to eat mostly real food. I don’t crave processed junk, but I do enjoy homemade cookies and pancakes when I want.
I like to exercise no more than 20 minutes at a time a few days per week. I like to go on hikes when I want to as well.
I like to prioritize my family, my business, and my church ministry, spending time on those things rather than obsessively try (and fail) to lose weight.
My life is joyful and my self esteem full, because I’m doing what I like, not because of the needle on the scale.
I really feel bad for this guy. As an elder statesman in the Church of Dietary Atheism, will you join me in praying for this guy? And who do we pray to? ;)
All prayers should be directly to Matt Stonie. He’s our spiritual leader.
WWMSD? ;)
Sharonimo wrote:
“I like to eat.
I like to eat mostly real food. I don’t crave processed junk, but I do enjoy homemade cookies and pancakes when I want.
I like to exercise no more than 20 minutes at a time a few days per week. I like to go on hikes when I want to as well.
I like to prioritize my family, my business, and my church ministry, spending time on those things rather than obsessively try (and fail) to lose weight.
My life is joyful and my self esteem full, because I’m doing what I like, not because of the needle on the scale.”
Sharonimo,
You’re doing it right! That’s sounds like a great place to be! I’m giving you a virtual High-Five!
And, I’ll join you in praying for the gentleman in the video.
Our Matt Stonie which art in IHOP, Hallowed be thy name.
Thy order come, Thy eating be done on Earth, as it is in Heaven.
Give us this day more daily bread.
And forgive us our dieting, as we forgive our low-carb gurus.
And lead us not into restriction, but deliver us from evil: For pancakes are the kingdom, and the power, and the glory, for ever. Amen.
Yea, though I walk through the valley of the shadow of Keto-ites,
I shall fear no pancake,
For metabowism is with me.
Thy flour and thy sugar, they comfort me.
IHOP staff preparest a table before me
In the presence of crazed dieters.
They anointeth my pancakes with syrup.
My plate overflows.
Surely, the comfort & calories will follow me for the rest of the morning,
And I will dwell in the house of Carbs forever.
Wow, turtlegurl! That is epic!
Thy brilliance hath rendered me silent.
Matt Bless You!
And may Matt bless you, my son ;)
Your prayer inspired me. Just trying to add a little sumpin’ to this Fucking Awesome Blog (FAB).
I think I’m developing a crush on you, turtlegurl. In a strictly platonic, anonymous, non-creepy, blog-post-comment-appreciating type of way. :-)
I love the prayer!!!
I am posting it on my bathroom mirror along with WWMSD!
As a daily reminder to honor my commitment to Never Diet Again….after 40 years of continuous dieting!
Amen
It’s been done before, so I feel like I’m plagiarizing a bit, but any 180D-related prayer really should be concluded with Ramen, not Amen.
Matt — you say Ramen, I say Raw Men ;)
Love your humor. I LOL through the whole article. Thanks for that. Ever think of doing stand-up?? You sure have the material–love the acronym—priceless. Sad to admit.I’ve done all the diets mentioned above except for the FUCKURMETABOISM- ha ha. In my Pre-Matt days, I no doubt would have given that one a try as well–ha.
Why do stand up comedy when I can write funny stuff lying down? :)
Hi Matt. Thanks for reminding us! Since Eating The Food I gained some weight that I am at times tempted to want to lose. However I do want to keep my muscles, boobs, energy and uninterrupted night’s sleep. Or as Isabel Foxen Duke puts it so sharply: my sanity. I am forever grateful to have learned here that nothing is as relaxing as a good meal incorporating every ingredient I desire and exactly when and as often as I like. Anyone who is still struggling with anxiety should get desperate enough to try this and then never go back. So again, thank you for reminding us!
Probably you know this guy Blake Horton who eats 4000 on one metal daily. Hes pretty fit. He uploads almost daily his super meals and are mostly junk foods: pizzas, tacos, burritos…
What do you think in terms of metabolism? Maybe hes doing IF, but hes on a calorie surplus.
There’s absolutely nothing abnormal about being young, doing hard training, and being lean eating a high-calorie diet. It’s not some big secret, it’s just NORMAL. And I’m sure he could eat more often and still be in similar shape.
https://www.joe.co.uk/fitness-health/the-7000-calorie-diet-that-got-tarzan-star-ripped-71276
I still think we should be fasting between 8 to 12h per day… when we sleep. So 12h eating window, 12h no eating to let the digestive system “rest” and get that migrating motor complex moving. At least I know I feel way better (and my temperature has risen since doing this) by letting at least 12h between the end of my dinner and the beginning my breakfast, while of course eating lots of calorie/nutrient dense foods during the day. And it’s not too hard since I’m asleep most of the fast duration : D!
Nothing wrong with 12 hours. That’s just normal.
I think I’ll start a new fad diet called the 12-12-3 diet. It’s revolutionary. You eat 12 hours a day and fast 12 hours and eat three complete meals throughout the day!
HAHA
Aha : D. I was saying this because many people have barely 6 to 8 hours of fast during the night because of snacking, eating too late, etc, and I think that might be too little for some. But people always need to go to some extremes, like this 8 hours eating window. Eating all of our caloric needs in 8 hours ? Maybe for those with a great digestion and metabolism, but for others with weak health, their stomach’s surely gonna need these 16 hours of rest after this workout : D
I like that one. Where did “going on a diet” come from? I hate this phrase as well as ” I cheated on my diet.” A diet is what you eat. You can’t cheat on that. If you had ice cream when on a sugar or dairy free diet, you just changed your diet. You did not cheat.
Temperature fluctuation could be an iodine deficiency. It’s very common. I take 2 drops a day. Might work for you.
Hey Matt! Use to always be on your 180D blog back in the day. I have been training with Chief (remember him?). Anyway I have been one meal a day for about a year…no issues BUT I am not weighing myself or tracking any health metrics…not even exercising. I eat large meals obviously, and mostly clean except for Saturdays when I throw down big. I have not had any regrets or cravings which is good.
Will I stick with it? So far it’s been something that I don’t think about as it’s just been natural for me. I do, however, hate the occasional avoidance of lunch for special events, etc. Like anything else the longer you do it – and the deeper you are in – the less flexible you tend to get.
A “clean” dinner for me might be:
1. 5 cheeseburgers
2. 1 lb of Kidney Beans
3. 5-6 slices of cheese
4. Pumpkin seeds
5. Dried fruit
6. Rice or corn or something else
A “anything goes” night might be like 6,000 calories of Chinese food ha.
I have been wondering whatever happened to Chief. Does he still have a blog?
That he does…last seen around 1/28/17…
http://www.chiefrok.com/blog/
CHIEF! Is he blogging these days? Where does he hang his Internet shingle?
Chief is MIA at the moment…well been about a year ha. Hoping he reappears soon!
Wasn’t Chief going to release the secret to eating at some point? And then I think it never happened. Would love to hear a Chief update.
I reached out to him will see if he responds!
Hey big John! Thanks for the update on Chief. That’s cool he’s still out there. I too was eating as much as I could on my one meal a day and not gaining any weight (losing a little), and I wasn’t particularly hungry, but I did struggle with sleep, feeling really tired and lethargic and bloated with heartburn and stuff for several hours after each daily feast, having bad breath deep into the fast, and I did indeed gain some fat when I got sick of doing it and stopped.
Pleasure to be back Matt! Yeah Chief is out there somewhere unless he finally messed with the wrong Bigfoot ha.
Yeah I should note I did IF once before and dropped out and put a lot of weight back. Back then I was really deep in a paleo phase and never had a cheat day…so I was eating once a day…not nearly enough calories…and never any evil bad foods to stave off cravings.
It’s not for everyone that for sure and honestly I am curious how long I can make it.
love your posts.
Hi Natalie, Fancy seeing you here. I believe we did Greg’s Health unit together. Does being here mean you’ve given up on keto? I personally think there is no one solution that fits all. There’s not even one solution that fits just one person all the time. You need to continually adjust. Nothing influences weight more than stress levels, and the diet needs to be adjusted accordingly. I alternate keto and the “I-just-don’t-care-diet” (LOL) depending on what’s going on in my life (stress levels, cognitive demand, exercise). Anyways it would be lovely to hear from you. Cheers, Stef
Matt,
What’s your take on fasting and testosterone? From what I have read casually it seems that IF is suppose to increase it. Do you see the opposite? Thanks.
I don’t know. I would think IF would be more likely to lower testosterone, especially if it’s inducing weight loss.
Even without losing weight, fasting and especiall one meal a day, completely kills my libido!
Go get ’em!
Hey Matt,
I am so inspired by your writing, have followed you for a couple years and have “eaten up” pretty much everything you have “dished out” on all these diet mentality mishaps. But here I am now…a couple years later and have been intermittent fasting for 3 months, eating ketogenic diet for 44 days and working towards OMAD the past week. Now, please bare with me. The ketogenic diet mixed with IF helped me to drop 12 pounds and 54 points off of cholesterol the first month(it was 329). I have been tired of being 40 pounds overweight and also have Hashimotos Thyroiditis and Menieres Disease. I’m a chronic low temperature gal, hair loss, low libido blah blah blah. Maybe I have gotten duped. I am apart of keto, IF and OMAD groups and of course, MOST people are posting of their fabulous transformation stories and their sustained weight loss of even up to 2 years. As I write this, I am freezing(like I have been pretty much every day), extremely hungry(been fasting so far for 15.5 hours) and frustrated that this has been the only thing that had helped me lose this much weight in a short time frame. When trying the rest and refeed methods with hundreds of grams of carbs, I gained like 25 pounds which was scary. But I pooped better so thumbs up there. I miss carbs so much….and not even junky, battered and fried carbs….oatmeal, rice, potatoes, blueberries. I cant do dairy. I get sick sick sick with all kinds of unpleasant stomach and scalp issues. GRRRRR!!!! Can I maybe have a few words of wisdom to help me get a renewed mindset? Please be kind. We all make mistakes? Hopefully…
That’s a tough spot to climb out of. At the very least you can start cycling carbs by eating low-fat carb meals of mostly fruit and starches once a day or something.
Angela,
You are worsening your Hashimoto’s with the way you are eating. Your body is stressed both with the way you’re eating, and your negative mindset about your appearance.
If you stay the course, it’s just going to continue downhill. Would you rather be bald, thin and cold (the thin doesn’t last anyway) or warm and heavier?
Are you enjoying your life eating this way and having an obsessive fixation on what you’re eating, when you’re eating and how you look?
Angela, you are so much more important as a human being than your temporary appearance, which will change anyway if you are lucky enough to have a long life.
Start enjoying your food and your life. Manage the stress… Re-read Matt’s books…
I’m definitely not enjoying freezing or losing hair…or the constant thinking about food, what to eat, what not to eat, am I getting all the macros. Its serious work. Really, I just want to feel better inside and it seems like nothing is really working. I have read from numerous people in numerous places that they are putting their Hashimoto antibodies into remission with these various ways of eating. So discouraging. But yes, I would rather not be constipated and freezing at the “right weight”. I would much rather be warm and toasty with a little extra to love. I will be re-reading Eat for Heat tonight. Thank you for your words.
Have you read Izabella Weisz’ stuff on Hashimoto’s? Sounds very logical. She’s done some movies, too.
Angela, first I want to remind you that EVERY BODY IS DIFFERENT, AND JUST BECAUSE CERTAIN DIETS WORK FOR SOME PEOPLE SOME OF THE TIME DOESN’T MEAN IT WILL WORK FOR THEM THEIR ENTIRE LIVES OR THAT IT WILL WORK FOR YOU. Caps for emphasis, not to be mean!
I don’t know if this is bad advise, but I would advise to toss the scale. You know how to eat in a way that makes you feel better. Maybe not binge eat carbs, but slowly add them back in, and see how you feel. What kind of gentle exercise do you enjoy? Do that, but don’t overdo it. And look into getting your minerals tested. I did it with Dr. Garrett Smith a few years ago and it changed my life! Magnesium baby! That could be the missing piece. Well, that and re-feeding myself. It just sounds like your torturing yourself to lose the weight. I’m 40lbs over what I’d like to be too, but I’d rather be a size 12 and happy with energy and hair on my head and WARM than a size 4, cold, and full of anxiety like I used to be.
Side note: I’m a former WAPF chapter leader/former GAPS/keto proponent/former food and exercise obsesser.
Thank you for your words. I bought magnesium/calcium/potassium powder that I have been taking. I have pretty bad constipation which has led to a TMI— thrombosed hemorrhoid. I am going to start carb cycling or just bringing the carbs back in. Thank you again.
I also want to share that I had to dive deep into WHY I wanted to be thin. Why do any of us want to be thin? Honestly, it has little to do with health and far more to do with self worth. Personally, I had to realize that my self worth comes from what God says about me, not what I or others think about me. Don’t mean to sound preachy or religious,just my personal journey ;)
I also had to switch focus. I decided that I wanted to give up wanting the reputation of being the thin, pretty, young girl and switch it to have a reputation as a woman who loves and cares for those around her. So my focus has completely changed to obsession about food (again, I was a WAPF chapter leader!) to helping women in my community who struggle with poverty, abuse, and/or addiction. I would MUCH RATHER prioritize my life loving and helping people than spend hours in the gym, in the kitchen, and doing online research. My life is far more fulfilling! If you think about it, our obsession with dieting is self focused. I personally don’t know anyone who I would say are truly happy who are self focused. The people that I have met that are truly happy are those with a mission to make the world a better place; they are OTHER centered rather than self centered. Personally, there’s no worse feeling I get than when I’m dieting, exercising, and constantly weighing myself. But there’s no greater feeling I get than when I am helping and serving others! Well, that and eating brownies with milk too ;)
Oh gosh, Sharonimo, I love this reply. Knowing who I am in God is also my key to self worth, and something I so struggle with. And yes, the easiest way to put problems in perspective is to be others focused. Thanks for your words of wisdom!
Angela, I have suffered with severe and disabling chronic fatigue for over 40 years, along with very low thyroid. I’ve tried every way of eating, and have been on all sorts of eating and supplement regimes. After much trial and error I find that a low carb diet helps me find at least some energy but, like you, I suffered with constipation. I recently starting making the ‘PK bread’ recommended by Dr Sarah Myhill it’s easy to make, tastes OK and completely got rid of the constipation. It might help. (Don’t usually recommend someone else’s stuff on a person’s website, seems a bit rude, sorry Matt ? but you appear to be struggling Angela so thought I’d break my own rule ;)
Hi Sharon I’m confused. What’s wrong with a size 12? That’s biologically perfectly healthy. Why would you even think about wanting to be a size 4? It is definitely not healthy. That’s underweight. BTW, size 16 is the current US average.
Stef, in my dysfunctional thinking that I had to be thin in order to be ok, it wasn’t ok to be a size 12. So no, there’s nothing wrong with that for me as that IS my healthy weight.
But we also have to understand that for some women, a size 4 is their healthy weight. My sister is a 4 and eats about the same as I do and exercises about the same as I do (a lot of walking and hiking and some weights, nothing crazy). Genetically, she got my mom’s side, with lots of tall, thin women. I got my dad’s side, short, wide Italians (my dad has the body shape of Danny DeVito, just like his mother who I look exactly like!)
If suddenly my sister packed on weight and became a size 12, then there would be something wrong and she’d have to look into that. Likewise, if I suddenly dropped to a size 4 I’d have to look into that!
Angela,
Make sure you take a silica supplement to help your body absorb the calcium. Without silica, those minerals do not stick to your bones. Also, make sure you up your sodium, too.
You may be deficient in iodine, it’s very common. I do 2 drops a day and it stabilized my temp.
Insert beware of simple traditional sustainable common sense eating sign
Your Eat for Heat book has saved my life and my fascia. I would love to talk “warm” fascia with you, if that’s something you are interested in. That’s why having a higher temperature fixes everything, because healthy fascia fixes everything, and fascia likes to be warm.
re: warm fascia – would massage create warm fascia?
yes, but only temporarily and superficially
“Warm fascia” definitely sounds like an interesting conversation to be had. Give me more details!
Fascia is the current frontier of the body, the thing everyone is just figuring out. We used to say it was like that slimy covering on a chicken breast, but that is not true. Fascia starts as bone, then it changes form and becomes ligaments and tendons and everything in between bone and skin, and then it changes form again and becomes skin. It’s also what makes up all organs. One book I read (I forget which, I’m sorry, probably Fascia: The Tensional Network of the Human Body) said that “someone said” Fascia is everything except the open space inside the blood vessels and the intestines. Basically, your fascia is your entire body. I am a long term fascia enthusiast (because I used to have fibromyalgia) and I’ve done YEARS of yoga (and many other things) to try to repair mine. I implemented the advice of Eat for Heat and have had some pretty miraculous fascia changes in this newly warm body. My hair is growing in again, my eyelashes are longer, my teeth are moving back inline and my jaw seems to be widening. My feet are changing. My skin is no longer dry. I have a keloid that is disappearing. Basically, even the people who are spearheading the fascia movement do not realize what kind of results they could get with a warm person. …. Ask Ashley Black (fascia blaster). She knows, but even she doesn’t realize you can heat a person from the inside out.
The use of fascial terminology is controversial. Call it what you wish; better blood supply always makes things more supple, warmer, and heal faster etc..
Myofascial pain syndrome is similar to fibromyalgia, and I struggle with it. I believe some people have higher propensities for muscular dynsfunction, “adhesions”, trigger points and what not. Probably gene related like the MTHFR mutation.
It all started when I started getting heartburn at end of 2014, didnt know why (i learned a lot, dgl and limonene are the shit), drove myself crazy experimenting, lost weight and worked out despite not feeling good cuz i was addicted. I even emailed Matt out of desperation. It makes you feel like youre in a straight jacket. Terrible life changer. Trigger point workbook with clair and amber davies, save yourself from myofascial pain syndrome by paul ingraham, and some other people like Johnathan Kuttner has seriously invaluable information for people struggling with pain they cant figure out. Im way better now but i am still trying to figure stuff out…Heartburn was multifaceted in my opinion. Tense abdominals, possible minor hitial hernia, maaybe candida in my small intestine but not sure, much better now. Tip, dont over eat chocolate it destroys your throat lol.
All these years of reading about what foods are good and bad and I am still confused..I want to eat whatever I want and keep my metabolism high but i get like yeast issues in the winter sometimes and eczema too. I feel beyond repair sometimes. No appendix, been nuked with antibiotics throughout my life, it makes me want to pull out my insides and scrub them with a brush physically cuz i think i have freakin biolfilms that wont freakin leave me alone. A long time ago I rrarfed and did it too dirty. I gained weight but got my temps real toasty. I could eat anything (defeated lactose intolerance for example) and i was having good bowel movements. Well, when i try it now, my guts dont freakin move properly like theyre paralyzed. Its like yeast or methanogenic archaea in my gut wont freakin let me eat like I want. Dr Garrett Smith is against freakin potatoes. Unless im mistaking his website for another Doctor named the same.
I am currently eating as much as I can but took out a lot of potential allergens just to see if they make my muscles worse. Taking things out of my diet is against my instincts but I am simply trying to get better and figure out what makes me feel shitty vs what doesnt. This is extremely condensed. I think I am on the right path though. I am half to blame. I overdo everything and surely have screwed myself up.. Just felt like letting that all out.. Keep blogging Matt. Glad to read your material as always.
Thanks Bob Dean!
So I read Eat for Heat and implemented to the best of my ability but can’t get my thyroid happy or my temp up at all. Do you still recommend the thoughts in that book and have any other suggestions? On thyroid meds (natural) and eating nutrient dense paleo mostly due to digestive issues. Thanks!
I’m surprised your temp hasn’t come up at all. That’s pretty rare. But that’s hard to do on nutrient dense Paleo food. I imagine that’s probably what’s holding you back, in large part.
So suggestions on what to add? I eat plenty of fat and carbs and protein. My basal temp sits around 96.3.
I’ve been diagnosed with Hashimoto’s and read it all- I guess for many with Hashimoto’s, being gluten free has helped. It did nothing for me (after a year)… So you have to self-test, IMO. I certainly would not remove so many foods all at once! Do one at a time to see if it has an impact – and what change are you looking for: losing weight OR feeling well?
I think that many of the food insensitivities improve when your body is warm enough to digest properly!
Even now, it takes a lot of food to move my temp up in the morning – in the afternoon and night I’m warm from the food I eat. I have to eat more frequent meals to get my temps up – and it has not increased my weight. But I’m feeling much better. I had chronic back and hip pain which is much better (despite my addiction to tennis). (Thankfully my knees have gotten better from stem cell treatment.)
Sharonimo – I love and 1,000% agree with what you said…. would appreciate if you might consider being interviewed for my next book…..
Please message me-
Jen- have you been tested for Hashimoto’s and hypothyroid? You may need thyroid meds… and even with that, my temps have only slowly risen (I have Hashimoto’s)
and Stef- Isabel Weiscz’s book has the MOST restricted diet plan I’ve ever seen, other than maybe just eating 1 food a day. I don’t know how any human could stay on that kind of eating plan!
And all: Do NOT take magnesium oxide – get malate, glycinate or another form. Citrate will make you have loose stools if you go too high, but may not help with other magnesium related issues. Malate and gylcinate do not to that-
Jen, I would increase your bread and sodium. If you are not sleeping, try taking a good magnesium supplement. Magnesium is a natural muscle relaxer. It helps me sleep. I can tell when I don’t take it. I also get gas cramps if I don’t take it. That and vitamin C. I take a lot of that daily.
Fat and Salt are my “body heaters”.
I’m mostly Scandinavian, so I come from a fatty, salty ancestry. :)
If I feel cold, I grab some yummy hard aged cheese… with or without crackers.
I also get cold when I drink too much water.
I am SOOOOOO Grateful for “Eat 4 Heat”!!!!
I was coming off a medifast diet when I found it (1200 cal/day of powdered soy protein meals)… and it took the SECOND bout of pneumonia to finally kick my butt off the diet wagon.
I was sick of forcing myself to drink water all day. I am so much happier – and warmer – drinking only what my body asks for.
I plotted my temperature on a chart every day for a few months: 1st thing in the morning, before/after each meal and just before going to bed. I found stopping the excessive water consumption and adding in fat and salt had a near immediate shift in temperatures. For the first time in 30 years I could sit still without getting cold… even in high school, I’d get cold sitting still in 95F summers… no more!
I went from low 97’s to mid/high 98’s… and 4.5 years later, I’m STILL warm… with fewer colds and no more allergies! Maybe with a few more added pounds, but, nothing that stops me from living my life and having fun.
Thank you Matt!
Wow Tina! Glad I could help. I’d be a rock star in Scandinavia, lol.
I tried the meal timing thing. It seemed to help me lose a little weight, then stalled. The usual. I did a Matt Stonesque refeed for a month and now I’m back on the diet that helped me lose 40 lbs last year (as described on FB). Just week 1 though.
When I am hungry I eat. I think about what I really want, listen to my body and I eat it. so far it’s been working great ????
I feel like you have made a dent in the health/weightloss/nutrition world. I see your name dropped a lot. But ya it’s sad what is out there.
Maybe start an Instagram account?
Hey Matt and 180 crowd! I played with all the if protocols for about 2 years (eatstopeat, leangains, warrior, etc) before my thyroid reminded me that food was in fact a good thing. It works until it doesn’t for sure! During that time I did not track calories, which was stupid on my part, but I estimate it was about 1500-2500 a day. Now I have been tracking calories and am in the range of 3500-4000 a day and weight is stable around 154 at 5?11?. Food choices are whole food with pizza, ice cream, and cookies thrown into the mix on occasion. My TSH was high after I stopped IFing so the doc put me on levothyroxine. Free t3 and free t4 were and are normal and no thyroid antibodies present. Around the same time I stopped ifing, drinking alcohol, and I moved back to a paleo template and got the first gout attack I have ever had. So moving to today I’m still battling high tsh and uric acid with a more normal eating pattern. The gout episode came on after a few months of gelatin supplementation and I have read that glycine can be converted into uric acid, so I’m wondering if that could have contributed to it. How do you all feel about the glycine supplementation these days? Any and all ideas are welcome!
No major thoughts on glycine, but hopefully you’ll lure Dr. Brind in (and his haters) for a lively discussion on the topic, lol.
But just eating a lot of meat can cause gout. I’ll never forget back in 2007 when 180D was just a lil’ baby, I was working on a raw milk farm. The dairy farmer had a heart attack, and I was certainly shocked. My fantasies of superhuman WAPF-induced health took a big blow from that. He was in his 50’s.
It was mild and he survived, but afterward was really lost about what he should do. He asked me what I thought and I told him that he should really think about reducing his carbohydrate intake. Not to extremes, but cutting out honey and bread and reducing his normal starch portions by half.
Within a couple weeks he had terrible gout from it. My fantasies of low-carb superhumanism took a blow from that as well!
It was that same dairy that I got extremely ill from Campylobacter from raw milk. There was a big outbreak among the members of the “milk share” or whatever.
Basically, everything I had been told by WAPF and low-carbers exploded like a bursting sphincter of bullshit from that experience!
Being a quick learner, I of course dropped my carbs even lower and kept at it for a couple more years! And threw in an absolutely miserable raw milk fast to go with it! hahaha
I’m pretty sure that is where my then 1.5 year old got campylobacter from(that was 6 years ago). I had given him part of a smoothie I made with raw milk. My FIL brought me some from an Amish farm where he went to buy his pig feed. I was only getting the raw milk infrequently, and stopped altogether after that.
Ah, the raw milk diet of Bernarr McFadden, those were the days huh Matt? Although I think you had more fun testing people’s pee than drinking raw milk lol
Matt — your sanity, humor, and openness to all types of input from us peeps on 180D is always a breath of fresh air. You rock!
And this site is F.A.B.U.L.O.U.S.
(Fucking Awesome Blog Under Leadership Of Uncommon Stone)
Matt are you still hunting for the unicorn or is that over? It all works until the body fights back, so maybe the key is sneaking around the body’s defenses?
That’s why bariatric surgery works, because the body doesn’t fight back somehow (they’re trying to figure out why). Just kicking around ideas. There’s gotta be a way. ????
Not much unicorn hunting lately.
As far as “there’s gotta be a way,” I’m not convinced. If there is, the scientific community sure hasn’t found it. Not without permanent major reductions in resting energy metabolism beyond what is expected from loss of fat and muscle (and the problems that come with it) and a constant fight against weight regain.
Hi Matt, fan of your blog and especially the diet recovery books.
Regarding the one way to weight-loss that is not damaging to metabolism and does not lead to a constant fight against weight regain – how about the findings from the Minnesota Starvation Study? I know you have written about it before on the blog, but I think its findings are actually more applicable to overweight people than standard diet adherents think (i.e., those who believe in limiting food intake to lose weight, whether by cutting calories, or intermittent fasting, or cutting out certain macros). If obesity is often a result of restricting food intake, as the body over-compensates to store fat in anticipation of further famines (what diets effectively signal), then starvation mode is way more common than we think. I think you have even written on this blog that obesity is starvation, as counter-intuitive as it sounds. But we know that the participants in the Starvation Study actually lost weight eventually, after eating at a great surplus to their supposed BMR. Critically, though, this had to be done for a longer time than modern people would like, and importantly, had to be done consistently, and probably within a stress-free environment, where one could eat as much as one wanted without fear of ostracization. I also think of Billy Craig’s 6000 calorie experiment, where he said he actually lost weight eating that much everyday. So my thought is that maybe starvation, or energy-deficiency, as Gwenyth Olwyn calls it, is probably ubiquitous in our time, due to unprecedented levels of chronic stress, under-eating, ‘intermittent’ fasting (skipping lunch because of life busy-ness), and significantly, the moralizing and politicizing of ‘fat’. So perhaps in times of old, people had no hangups about temporarily getting fat as they ate more for their body to recover from a period of famine. But just as the Starvation Study participants did, they eventually lost that weight naturally, without caloric restricting, as their body recovered from the stress of energy-deficiency. Curious about your thoughts on this.
Therefore, it just may be that the amount of calories to truly overcome a long-term energy deficiency is way more than people would allow themselves to eat, because of inhibiting ideas of ‘gluttony’, ‘laziness’, ‘getting too fat’. But it may be the only way for the body to definitively receive the signal that famine/starvation is finally over, and that the body can now go about shedding the excess weight.
Excellent writing, inquiring mind.
Thank you, Buck. All my ideas on this topic have been influenced by Matt Stone, Ray Peat, and Gwyneth Olwyn.
@ Inquiring Mind: I’ve been refeeding for almost 5 years now, four to almost six thousand calories on some days, and haven’t lost anything. As Matt said, the unicorn unfortunately appears for only the chosen few.
As for Billy Craig, I think what happened to him (if it even did happen…) was just a bout of hyperthyroidism. Either way he said he would write a book like 10 years ago and I don’t think it’s coming. Judging from his blogging it was gonna be some Weston A. Price bullshit anyways.
I’m thinking of ending my refeed and just eat my TDEE, no deficit or banned foods, and we’ll see what happens.
P.S. your idea reminded me of animals bingeing in the summer to fatten up for the winter. Indeed some have said humans may have done the same.
T.S. Wiley wrote a whole book proposing that the entire obesity epidemic can be chalked up to the “fattening in late summer” effect, triggered by artificial light exposure that made our bodies think we were forever living in an endless summer. Was an interesting read, although most have written the book off as poppycock, which probably means it’s very accurate!
Matt, do you think that the daylight savings would have anything to do with it? Is there a connection with states that implement it and weight gain? Changing the time like that might have a hand in it.
I don’t think so.
Skeptic, I lost 40lbs down to ideal weight eating a surplus of calories just like Billy Craig did. The key was zero fat. Now I eat whatever and my bf set point stays were it is.
Hey Zach, I know you’ve had awesome results. Last time we talked diet specifics you were eating mostly fruit and skim milk. What else would you advise someone to eat if attempting to toy around with a very low fat overfeed attempt to lower weight set point?
Also, you should consider calling yourself Dairyianrider :)
Hey Matt, I really like rice and rice noodles for adding bulk and calories to a zero fat diet. I also don’t shy away from grains and wheat noodles are good as well. Like you mentioned, I did my nonfat stint as a vegetarian but I think adding a serving or two of very trimmed steak or chicken/turkey might be cool, maybe some lean fish like tuna. Really though a zero fat diet is just not very fun and it’ll require a bit of mental toughness. I’d recommend potatoes but they are inedible without fat imo.
@ Matt: there’s definitely something there. I need to read Wiley. It could also be a food reward thing: if the body encounters a high reward food, as happens in late summer, it ups hunger and setpoint to take advantage of this jackpot of calories and store them up for later.
@Zach: that’s interesting, I wonder how it worked. How did you feel during? We’re you hungry every two hours? How high was the surplus and did you make sure by counting calories?
Yes, I agree completely. It’s logical, and it indeed works for some. But it still remains elusive to most. Much more needs to be unlocked to be able to access the mythical “metabolic zone.”
Perhaps you can you help me understand something, Matt.
As a kid — like age 12 and younger — I ate anything and everything. I don’t recall when I first heard the idea of “dieting,” but it was many years later.
Certainly, neither of my parents restricted anything, either! They ate (and, unfortunately, to their demise, drank and smoked) to excess.
All three of us were overweight. Now, with my parents’ drinking, smoking, and health issues, perhaps it’s not a mystery they were overweight.
But, for me, as a kid who was active (raised on a farm, doing manual labor, baling hay, riding my bicycle and motorcycles, climbing trees, playing football, basketball, frisbee, etc.) and not restricting food, any guesses as to what might cause overweight in someone with no stress, no food restriction, and, at the time, good sleep?
It seems that food restriction isn’t always the culprit.
While I realize I’ll never know the answer for 100% sure, it’s an interesting thought to me and I would welcome any of your musings on the matter.
To be clear, I don’t think food restriction is the cause of overweight. At all. I think there are several culprits. See my Why We Get Fat post (or maybe it was How We Get Fat?).
The problem is that when a person has gained excess body fat, they then try restricting food intake and attempting intentional calorie deficits. This makes the root problem worse, and makes set point rise.
The supposed “medicine” is making the problem worse. Much worse. That’s what I try to bring awareness to.
Ah, okay, got it! I was making an ASSumption, based on what I thought I understood.
I just found the post to which you alluded and will commence reading.
How We Get Fat
http://180degreehealth.com/how-we-get-fat
Thank you, Mr. Flogging.
I guess the biggest benefit of losing fat in the “metabolic zone” is about reducing the fat stores exclusively, while maintaining all of the lean masses. Even a professional body builder seems to lose some bits of muscle masses (and maybe some organ and bone masses too, lol) during the cutting phase, so it’s definitely a much safer path if you can achieve it. I occasionally try to explain metabolic zone to others, but yeah they still stick with the classic calories in calories out.
Speaking of fasting, recently I heard some random dude talking about it to his partner in the street. He even boasted he avoids carbs at night on top of skipping a meal. Like you said, this is literally going apeshit Matt!
Hey Juan,
Yes, the organs are much more metabolically active than the skeletal muscles, fat tissue, and other lean mass. By quite a large factor actually. Losing a few pounds of tissue from your most active organs (as happens with intentional calorie restriction) can lower metabolic rate by a large factor even if there appears to be no loss of muscle mass. I pity body builders, as they are probably experiencing more organ losses because the body is less reluctant to release skeletal muscle (since it thinks the person has to lift a bunch of heavy shit to survive!)
I just don’t understand why people think caloric deficit is healthy when it breaks down the organs inside a body. That’s like saying an elderly person with reduced food intake, constipation, osteoporosis and a weak digestive tract (my granny for example) is far healthier than the vast majority of the population. Good luck preventing that with weight training and massive amounts of protein shakes ;) (Don’t get me wrong, I lift weights sporadically, but without a grueling routine and protein shakes!).
If you don’t mind elaborating, Matt, I would be interested in hearing what are some other barriers to the metabolic zone you think need investigating.
Ah well, fat ingestion type is interesting, would be interesting to study various macronutrient breakdowns, micronutrient breakdowns, amino acid proportions, exercise vs. no exercise and what type of exercise, sleep quantity and depth, acute and chronic stress, blue light/red light, sleep patterns, medication age…
There are dozens of factors that probably have an effect on one’s ability to lower their set point. There isn’t much definitive research on any of it!
Hi Matt, thank you for your reply earlier to my question about potential confounding factors when attempting to reach the metabolic zone. I actually had another question, if you don’t mind, about whether you think white sugar or honey could be used as a way to get enough calories when attempting an ultra-low fat diet that would still have sufficient calories to avoid any metabolic slowdown typically associated with dieting. (This is in regard to your post at April 18, 2018 at 10:37 pm ). In your experience, you wrote, “few are capable of consistently eating a very strict and meticulous diet of 4,000 or more calories per day that’s completely fat free.” Strictly approaching that from whole foods also seems difficult, to me. But if one is using sugar to get the calories up there, do you think that could work without any negative effects? For example, one cup of orange juice is around 110 calories. But with two tablespoons of sugar, it’s closer to 200. While it might be crazy to eat 2000 grams of pure sugar, perhaps supplementing with sugar could give one a much easier time to get to sufficient calories (e.g., 4000), which providing at least some enjoyment in the way of taste. However, I don’t know enough about nutrition to know whether 1000 grams of white sugar will wreck you, or something.
I’m sorry, Matt, I just saw that you had replied earlier to Zach about adding sugar to a no-fat diet to make it more tolerable. I guess I am still wondering though if you think there would be an optimum either towards starch or sugars when attempting such a diet.
I think if you’re doing it as a vegetarian as Zach was, then you would want a high ratio of starch to sugar just by virtue of the fact that starches typically have 2-5X as much protein as fruit (and plain sugar and syrup has no protein at all). Obviously there are a ton of fruit-based vegans losing a shitload of weight eating a lot of calories. But they do so while lowering body temp and losing a lot of lean mass, typically. If you are to eat lean dairy and seafood, then I don’t think there’s as big of a need to eat starches. It’s just a matter of personal preference and how your body responds. I have always loved sweet foods above all else, so I find it quite easy to eat a very low fat diet with shitloads of tropical fruit, getting more than 50% of my calories from sugars. Your tastes and cravings will probably guide you towards the best balance between sweet and starchy/savory.
@skeptic, yes I do believe the mechanisms that lead to dramatic uptick in metabolism and fat lost.
First like this study shows, de novo lipogenesis just does not happen to any meaningful extent while overfeeding on carbs. https://academic.oup.com/ajcn/article/74/6/707/4737384 So when people gain fat from eating a surplus of calories, all fat stored is fat in the diet. So a zero fat diet, all excess energy will be used as fuel and heat production, aka raising metabolism.
Secondly and more important I believe is that the body still needs fat every day and especially at night for normal function. If you eat zero fat then all this will have to come from adipose. This is why I would wake up dramatically leaner on some days and dropped 40+ lbs seemingly overnight. Really it only took four months. These mechanisms seem very simple to comprehend yet most people call bullshit and cry CICO.
I measured and made sure I got at least 4K which was plenty for me. I felt stuffed all day but would wake up completely empty. I do believe Billy Craig did this exact thing but pushed himself into hyper territory for going to long and eating so much extra fuel.
Right above your post I detail my experience and thoughts on why it worked.
Thanks Zach. I’ve suspected this for a long time, and I brought this up for discussion a little over 8 years ago in this post: http://180degreehealth.com/maximum-nutrient-partitioning/
But I worried about the impracticality of it.
With years having gone by, and hundreds (okay fine, thousands) of vegan and fruitarian videos under my belt, I can now see that eating a fat-free diet is actually pretty easy if you are eating plenty of sugar with your starch.
I have always marveled at how quickly (too quickly, like dying of cancer quickly) weight flies off of me when I eat nothing but 3,000-3,500 or so calories of fruit per day. But I’ve never been able to stick with it for more than a week, as I feel like complete shit by the end of a week. I don’t feel stuffed at all. Quite the opposite. And weak, feeble, cold, dizzy, and lifeless. As most feel attempting to do some shit like that.
But eating a ton of noodles and rice with condiments like soy sauce and salsa and lean fish and dairy, and eating even more calories, could very well be doable.
And if you’re able to return to eating a normal, mixed diet after without weight regain, well that would be the holy grail. If you have any other tips to share for anyone looking to guinea pig themselves on this, please share them. It’s a worthy experiment for someone who has tried more moderate approaches unsuccessfully.
Right on, Matt. I remember that post, hard to believe it’s been 8+ years since I found 180degreehealth and left that low carb lyfe.
I have also tried and failed on a fruitarian/raw till 4 style diet a number of times. It seems way to cooling and would only work in the deep tropics, even then most fruitariand have that haunted hollow look to them. But there is no denying the ability of zero fat to improve health markers like diabetes, maybe even heart disease.
A few tricks I think that made it work best for me was that I did zero exercise besides some muscle control and walking. I also didn’t snack, I ate 3 big meals a day, really trying to stuff myself. Also I was lower in protein, I I’m not sure if that helped but I definitely wasn’t losing muscle and I felt good overall. The only real issues I had were with digestion but I was eating a lot of beans and veg with meals. If I were to do it again I’d stay away from them. I also might implement a fat refeed meal or day every so often just for fun, I was strict as hell but Now adays I don’t really have much self control and I don’t think a fat refeed would cause any issue with this unlike keto diets and carb refeeds. My hormones were also stellar, and libido was at an all time high which I think was mainly from great blood flow. I feel like fat restricts blood flow a bit and may cause systemic inflammation.
Eating big bowls of noodles was a staple for me. I’d buy the organic Ramon noodles which are wheat and usually eat at least 4 packs a meal. Also spaghetti. I’d drink a lot of juice as well so get extra cals.
That was the craziest thing, I ended up switching to an Edward Edmonds style diet right afterwords, taking out the fiber and starch and replacing it with lots of saturated fat. I was able to adjust just fine except for some heart issues, which I now think might have been from adding in coffee and chocolate.
2 years later though and I’m still eating whatever I want and weigh 160lbs at 5,11, 30? waist. This mornings breakfast was a full frozen pizza, some dried mango, low fat banilla yogurt and a big glass of lemonade.
Yeah I was thinking of a fatty meal that limited carbs might be integrated periodically, to satisfy any cravings there without hindering the approach.
I do feel like there has to be some magic in getting as much fat off the body as possible, purging out stored toxic material in fatty tissues as well as dumping all that stored PUFA. But that only works, of course, if you aren’t destroying your metabolism and setting up a massive binge to achieve that.
Seems like nonfat cottage cheese, tuna, and other real lean animal foods would probably be fine to add, and may be highly preferable over doing it completely vegan. Hopefully I’ll get an opportunity to play around with it someday, and hopefully a few others will try to replicate your results and have success in the meantime.
I’m liking the sound of this. Never liked the thought of the McDougall diet for life, but reframed as a weight loss hack I can see myself trying it. Maybe with 2 week diet breaks like Lyle McDonald talks about.
Carbsane was talking about this too, how she finally lost the last 30 pounds by eating VLF McDougall, and eating wtv she wanted when socializing.
I hear ya on releasing toxins Matt. Last time I lost a bunch of weight, the brief period before my metabolism died, I felt like a demigod. And my fat stores are probably 90% PUFA.
Without a doubt when the body decides to reset its fb setpoint lower, it’s inherently a good thing. That’s exactly what happened, I never really believed in a set point because I always was around 180-220 my whole adult life. To drop to 160 and stay there permenantely is pretty interesting. The body regulates its bf stores based on what its comfortable with and probably the amount of toxins it’s dealing with.
People can get lean with calorie restricting but we all know that it will get harder and harder to fight the stress hormones and your own bodies cravings. Fasting to lose weight is probably the worst thing you can do.
@Zach I remember someone eating skim milk and cocoa puffs to lose a lot of fat. Was that you? How much fat content is in organic ramen? I thought regular ramen tasted so good cuz the noodles are fatty? Or am I delerious and it’s just the cocaine like spices. I used to eat shit loads of ramen…after binge drinking as a teenager…terrible.
@anyone There are many that struggle with yeast issues. They follow anti candida diets and fail. Matt and others have talked about how higher carbs or sugar can actually help (alligators?).
One dude, Frederic Patanaude (a raw foodist i believe) says candida can be tamed with super low fat and he eats mostly fruit I believe. People have had success on curezone too doing super low fat. Perhaps this temporary super low fat stuff has potential for all sorts of uses. But it is true that lots of nutrition can come from fatty foods no? So it’s important to do it temporarily so we get our viduhmins riight? Itll take a lot of brain scrubbing to get me to stop thinkin all wapfish or paleoish as far as nutrient density goes. Pastured eggs, butter, A-2 dairy, pastured organs etc..
Where does adequate vitamin A come from on low fat? Or is beta carotenes shitty bio availability a lie too…
Isn’t whole milk dairy products more beneficial to the body than low fat dairy. Or is this low fat diet just temperary to shed some fat? What would be considered low fat, 20% fat? Where would you get Vit A of your eating lean meat and dairy foods? :)
These are odd questions Rachel, lol.
He’s not talking about eating a low-fat diet. He’s talking about eating a 1-2% fat diet. And it’s not to “shed some fat” like it’s no big deal. The intent is to lose fat on a very high-calorie diet with no metabolic downregulation. Something that’s thought to be completely and totally physiologically impossible.
Most vitamin A comes from beta carotene, which comes from plant foods with very little fat. The richest source of preformed vitamin A comes from liver, which is also a virtually fat free food. You might want to ease up on the WAPF Koolaid!
Yikes! How is that possible to eat 1-2% fat. That’s craziness. I’m going back to my butter ;)
Zach went back to his butter too, he just decided to get his metabolism really high and lose his excess bodyfat first.
Matt, do you think this is achievable without going too low in fat? Not a big fan of any fat anymore(i.e. can’t eat 5 haagen-dazs like I did right after quitting dieting) but still the carby staples taste like nothing without a bit of grease. I’m planning on implementing Billy’s approach on eating by increasing my calorie(carb) intake gradually just to see what happens. He says in the 180D newsletter that he ate chocolate desserts while on the 6000cal experiment, so perhaps a small amount of fat is not a big issue when the carbs are high enough?
Yes, I think it is achievable. I don’t know what your chances of success with it are, but it’s possible.
For years we’ve debated about the ideal macronutrient ratios of refeeding, and I have decided over the years that most people can’t achieve consistent high-calorie intakes sufficient to raise metabolic rate unless their food is maximally palatable. That’s why I haven’t emphasized it, but have instead emphasized ice cream, burgers, pizza, fries, and other common favorite foods. In my experience, few are capable of consistently eating a very strict and meticulous diet of 4,000 or more calories per day that’s completely fat free. That’s not easy to do!
But the theoretical, hypothetical ideal macronutrient ratio has always been as high in carbs as possible.
Rachael you are missing the whole point. Its not a diet, there are plenty of almost zero fat diets out there already like McDougall, raw till 4, Pritikin rice diet, etc. the point is to remove body fat the only healthy possible way by raising metabolism to optimal levels and removing body through normal bodily processes. Almost every diet/hack that claims fat loss is losing fat one way, driving stress hormones high and dumping lipids into the blood stream. Anywho,yea most days now I eat over 100g of fat, and definitely not all saturated, I just ate a sandwich that had mayo. :O
Juan, there are two reasons why I don’t think a low fat high carb diet will work in the same capacity. One, fat blunts insulin sensitivity. Two, fat will automatically be stored in adipose tissue if carbs are high. So while a top limit of maybe %10 fat still might achieve the same result, it might take longer. Above that and I doubt you will get the same results. One thing about Billy Craig’s experiment was that he was already very lean when he started, his goal wasn’t to lose a bunch of fat but to just prove that CICO is bullshit.
Zach,
I just wanted to say that I’m enjoying your contributions. I imagine Matt must sometimes get tired of repeating the same things to folks. Though, he’s always patient and helpful. So, it’s always good to have other folks offering explanations in their own words and providing clarification.
My thanks to you and all commenters. This is why I really love this blog.
Hi Zach – I have a few questions regarding your experience with the ultra low fat diet while still avoiding metabolism slowdown via high calorie and carb consumption. If you would not mind elaborating on your experience, I would greatly appreciate it.
1. Did you end up experiencing any negative effects typically associated with diets? Any issues with sleep and so on?
2. Did you use white sugar/honey as a way to get in more calories? If so, would you happen to recall around what percent of your diet they composed? I see that you wrote you made sure to get around 4000 calories overall.
3. How much of your diet was starch like rice and potatoes, and how much of it was sugars like fruit, fruit juices, etc.
4. How much protein were you getting (grams/calories)? Which sources did you rely on for protein?
Thank you very much for any responses, if you have the time. This is quite paradigm busting, so I am very curious about what you did.
Hey Zack, thanks for your thoughts. Personally, I’m not going super crazy for fats anymore like I did when quitting calorie deficit lifestyle. It was quite fun to eat 100grams of parmigiano with 5 cups of Haagen-Dazs for a while, but those foods (especially ice cream) did make me a bit cold and automatically shifted me towards lowered fat intake. Maybe my body just needed those to regain all of the fats lost through brutal dieting. For the past few days I’ve been eating pretty low fat during the day (A LOT of sushi with bits of lean fish), and use about 2-3tsp of coconut oil to make a stir-fry with some lean seafoods and veggies with tons of rice for dinner. On top of this, about a quart of fruit juices are washed in. I also started eating more frequently since my appetite was so down in the morning and it made me fast unintentionally for the past few months. I’ll try increasing my calories from carbs every week and see what happens over the next few months.
Inquiring,
The only side effects I experienced were positive. Increased libido, increased flexibility, deep sleep, lower inflammation. All this i attribute to better blood flow in general and perhaps fat has a systemic inflammatory response or that it allows endotoxin uptake. The only negative was that I started getting too lean IMO and my digestion was rough, pooping 3+ times a day but I was eating a lot of random fruit/veg and beans.
I did not use honey or sugar very often, relying mostly on starch and whole food sugar like dried fruit and juice. I did use maple syrup quite a bit. I’d say my diet was 70/30 starch to sugar. Starch is just much more satisfying. Also with metabolism raising so high, displacing real food for empty calories would not be a great idea.
My protein was low as I was a practicing veggie at the time. I did some egg whites but I hated throwing away the yolks so I didn’t eat them often and I drank skim milk and ate zero fat yogurt. Also a can of beans a day usually. I did some gelatin powders as well and would say I averaged 70-100g protein.
Juan,
Your current diet sounds pretty optimal. I have said for awhile that a tropical coastal diet is probably closest to our optimal diet. We evolved by the sea as evidence by the high amount of sea minerals we need. We also need a lot of sugar/carbs to run optimally which grow in lush environment. Seafood is also very balanced, high amount of glycine/taurine to methionine, high omega 3 to 6 but usually stop low pufa overall and high in vits and minerals. A diet high in tropical fish/shellfish, tropical fruit and some occasional eggs, tubers, greens and goat dairy seems perfect to me. The dairy may not be necessary if consuming some shell calcium.
I agree Zach. I too have always considered a tropical diet of primarily roots, fruits, coconut, and seafood to be the hypothetical optimum human diet. But maybe that’s just my inner Staffan Lindeberg talking, lol.
Zach, thank you for filling in the details about your ultra low fat diet experience. I’m glad that it all worked out. The principles seem sound so I hope it catches on as opposed to the traditional calorie cutting/low metabolism approaches out there. I am curious to try it one day.
Just a quick update on my current situation. So currently I’m trying Billy Craig’s approach to a high metabolism (increasing calories gradually), also implementing Zack’s idea(lowering fat intake, not obsessively but reduced the whole milk I used to drink up to a quart/day or so) and it seems like there are some improvements. First of all, my body heats up so hot that I cannot sit around and have to move around spontaneously after eating. My libido is skyrocketing that I had a “hard time” dealing with my beast mode sex drive. The sleep quality improved, and the appetite is like an incinerator that it increased my caloric intake, especially from carbs, dramatically. I still eat fat but not obsessed with it. My usual meal breakdown looks like: A large bowl of white rice (~600g) with salty topping, some bananas and fruit juice for breakfast, More rice and fruit juice during lunch, then a coconut oil or butter stir fry with another huge bowl of rice(with more fruit juice, of course). I snack on some dried fruits or juice whenever getting hungry.
Note, this is a personal experiment I’m currently trying it out on myself and it doesn’t imply people should eat this way or anything. Especially if you just quitted your lifelong dieting or whatever, it’s probably better to eat things that you really crave rather than copying me. I might be overhyping or something, so think twice before just blindly following my experiment.
Yeah I’m messing around with it a little bit too Juan. Mostly giant bowls of vegetables and fish all poached together over a ton of rice, and then fruit or big banana smoothies in between and before bed. The highest I’ve been able to go in calories is only about 3,200 in a day, but if I can get a second smoothie down before bed tonight I should come close to 4,000. Already had more sex this weekend than in the 19 days prior this month, lol. So far so good. It’s REALLY tough to get the big volumes of food down for sure though. My stomach feels like an overinflated beach ball right now. :)
Matt, I really feel you for the ballooning belly, lol. I guess the big key to continue this experiment is to eat some bits of fats here and there unless you have literally an INSANE willpower. I still believe fat (especially saturated) is very important, but ingest it like Jimmy Moore and probably we end up having some problems (Eating A LOT of SFA rich foods raises your overall PUFA intake anyways). But hey, who hates enjoying some cooked potatoes/rice with a bit of butter or coconut milk? Without those the foods will taste like nothing and our calorie consumption will drop. I’m probably eating around the same amounts of calories as you do, and will try to increase the intake slowly.
Also, I lately saw a documentary on an obese individual(4’9″, 214lbs, BMI of 43) who ate around 3800kcal and had diabetes (along with other bad health biomarkers). She did eat good amounts of carbohydrate, but also ingested lots of fats, mostly PUFA, from fried chicken, stir-fries, and other snacks that are high in fat. Maybe the documentary is oversimplifying her situation and not considering other factors that caused the health issue, but it’s probably logical to reduce fat to improve insulin sensitivity especially when it is polyunsaturated. That Chris Randall guy who wrote some articles here did lose his fat from eating relatively low fat, high sugar/carb diet, so probably it’s not a bad thing unless the calorie drops.
Damn I wanna join in on this experiment but fruit juice gives me heartburn, and I can’t handle most fibrous foods at this point from IBS, so should I try to just pound rice and pasta instead? There’s no way I can hit 4k calories tho.
P.S. Matt I finally started reading T.S.Wiley and I have to say I’m disappointed. Her writing style sounds like a crazy homeless lady who just cornered you to tell you how UFOs came down and kidnapped her husband, and she un-ironically calls carbs “instruments of death” lol. I’m guessing carbs aren’t allowed on her diet. Meh.
Yeah I read that in 2008. The premise sounded interesting, but yes, she’s been accused of being a complete wacko. Aren’t we all without carbs though?
+Skeptic:
Here’s some fun reading on Wiley from Wikipedia:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/T._S._Wiley#Controversy
Haha yeah. I knew her whole fiasco with Schwarzbein.
So Matt, How’s the low fat/high carb high calorie experiment going? Let me give you an example of my calorie intake and macro breakdowns a few days ago: Total calories consumed=3845kcal, Protein=116g,Fat=30g,Carbs?759g. The total fat intake is 7 percent which is pretty damn low. Hands and feet are warm all day, poop 2-3times a day, and pee 4-5times/day. Everything just seems fine (just a bit of insomnia yesterday) and I’ll try to sustain this for a few months, maybe even up to one year. Do you still experience all of the positive effects you’ve mentioned?
I wasn’t digging the higher calories, even though my metabolism was noticeably higher. I think I’ll have to slowly increase my calories.
Yeah I’m certainly a wacko if my carbs dip below 50% even. She was right about circadian rythm I guess, that field is blowing up now. All the circadian rythm people I follow like Rhonda Patrick or Satchin Panda are also low carb sadly.
I feel like there’s something there but it usually detours into hating carbs instead. A lot of them are into front front loading calories too, because apparently the body handles both carbs and fat better in the morning, and also a big meal early would reduce your appetite for the whole day. Have you ever experimented with front loading Matt?
@ Carl: her rants against Walter Willet are crazy lol
Yeah, I’m generally an advocate of front-loading. I’m not a Nazi about it or anything, but eating big when metabolism is lower and cortisol is higher makes sense to me, while eating less in the evening when you’re already at your warmest, with lower stress hormones.
Hey Matt, glad to hear you are doing well. Personally increasing maybe 200kcal/week sounds doable (I also don’t constantly hit 3800kcal, maybe the average is 3500) . Also I forgot to mention this but my urine cleared up (it’s still yellow) since lowering my fat intake, whereas it was ?cloudy? especially after a high fat meal. Not sure if it has to do with the fat itself though.
Right on, I’m trying to shift to front loading. I was always one of those people who said “but I’m not hungry in the morning…”, Then I realized it’s because I ate a 2000 calorie “dinner” almost right before bed and drank a “cup”/pint of coffee upon waking.
P.s. speak of the devil, Billy Craig just dropped his book after all this time. It’s called Consistent Eating: Is Dieting Harming Your Health And Your Weight Loss?
Bought it on Kindle, will read some tonight.
Someone should make a book with palatable low fat meals if they have success with Billy Craigs/ Zach’s consistent eating approach losing fat. I am going to start reading Billy Craigs book right away. I am wondering if eating extremely low fat but high calories somehow makes us “fat adapted” like the keto people, except without the stress hormones. I am referring to when Zach spoke of the body needing fat despite not consuming any, it uses its own.
Can anyone recreate what Billy Craig supposedly did?
Hey Bob, I tried eating as much as I could right after quitting weight loss, but I was able to cram in 4500kcal maximum no matter what. 6000 seems like an impossibility to me.
Hi Juan, I’m still refeeding, and I have been able to get to 6000 calories consumed a few times, but on those days I always had some kind of ‘junk’ food to get an easy amount of calories in, such as pizza, or McDonalds. Also, I added white sugar to some of my drinks to again, get easy calories. 6000 just on whole foods without any processed foods would be pretty tough.
Thanks for responding, all of you. If you were able to go up to 4500, then could you maintain that amount everyday to see what would happen? It would be so awesome if consistent excess calories lower your weight set point but most people call bullshit on it. When i ate a lot i never tracked calories. I would do it again but i am eating “clean” (still to appetite of course) at the moment and I dont want to gain weight, again, on a whim.
Hey Bob, I’m now trying to implement Billy’s approach to increasing calories. First,I’ll calculate my Basic Metabolic Rate(BMR) and then get my Total Daily Energy Expenditure(TDEE)by multiplying my activity level to BMR. Although this may not be an accurate figure, it gives an idea for people where to start from. From here, I’ll adjust calorie intake by adding 200-500cals/week or so to work it up to the high calorie range(4000+?). The added calories will probably be carbs (unless if you indulge an entire stick of butter or protein shakes, lol). My current food intake is around 2400-2600cals but sometimes it goes below 2000 because of some inconsistencies (unintentional fasting, being busy and not being able to eat, bloated stomach, etc). I’m 22, 5’8” and weigh around 230lbs, so it would be great if the fats just melt off so that I can participate on my favorite outdoor activities.
Hi Bob, the closest examples I can think of are people who have followed Gwyneth Olwyn’s “Minnie Maud” recovery idea (I think she now calls it Homeodynamic Recovery). If you search Youtube, you can see some videos by people who recovered from eating disorders follow that recovery method. They usually eat at least 3000 calories, but often will go higher than that during times where hunger is unrelenting. Not to be superficial, but all they seemed to have slimmed out during the time when they made their videos. So it’s not an exact replica of Billy Craig’s experiment, but it’s quite similar: people eating 3000+ calories everyday consistently after recovering from a diet, gaining weight, overshooting their weight set point, and then their body naturally shedding excess weight after a certain time, without decreasing calories.
Hey IM, I was probably eating 3-5 cups of haagen-dazs when ingesting 4500kcal on top of everything else I ate like rice, pasta, cheese, etc. Not a big fan of ice cream anymore, but I still love all those starchy goodness which adds up to 2600-3000+ calories (on top of some saturated fats, and some proteins like beef, fish, dairy, shrimp, etc). Maybe it just depends on our body size (height?), but I’m not sure. Perhaps I ate even more on a cheat day while dieting, ironically.
Thank you, Matt, for sharing your thoughts on the starch vs. sugar approach when attempting an ultra-low fat diet. Maybe I will try it one day.
The body is very adaptable, for sure. That’s an evolutionary survival tactic that it has perfected!
I’ve read a few 99cent “meditate your way thin” books… one proposes you can lose weight by talking with your body and just convincing it that it wants to drop the pounds.
I think there’s something to that – to being in the right frame of mind – But, the communication has to go both ways:
you can tell your body you want to be thin, but if it tells you that TODAY it needs carbs, you best give it some!
Haha. Yeah, that was my first thought. People need to stop telling their bodies what to do and LISTEN more! :)
I’ve been the one meal a day diet plan several times actually. It screws your metabolism up I can tell you firsthand, and, for me at least, causes food binging sessions. It’s a horrible idea. Why did I go on it more than once if I had issues? I don’t know, I guess I thought the next time would be different…
It’s okay Dan. It’s really easy to get diet amnesia and forget about bad things that happened, or think that if you tweak a variable or two (ooh, if I just eat MORE in my meal du jour I’ll be fine!) the outcome will be different.
I’ll add that I’ve tried every form of intermittent fasting that there is from lean gains to eating once every 72 hours. I actually have pretty good willpower but I’ve never noticed any difference at all in how I feel other than tired and weak of course, I’ve never seen any substantial fat loss, and I’ve done some of these fasts for longer than two months at a time but never made it quite three months. I don’t do well with very low carb like keto or paleo. I get heart palpitations and heart arrhythmias that just aren’t normal and I don’t sleep hardly at all even adjusting my electrolytes doesn’t work and I’ve tried every concoction that there is. I just eat fairly normally now but I’m also very active. Still, weight loss is very slow or almost impossible though I don’t gain. I just stay the same which is still very overweight. It’s a day-to-day struggle and I have three different trainers that kick my ass five days a week and a dog that needs lots of exercise. My friends tell me that if they did the amount of activity I did they?d be as thin as a rail yet I’m not. Sad, but I keep going. Here’s a funny one to end this with. When I recently switched to this new gym which is basically HIIT, CrossFit and personalized training in small sessions – the owner said to me ?You surprised us with all of the ?hidden Fitness? that you have. Translation: ?You can do a lot of strenuous activity for someone so fat!
What happens when you mostly eat fruit, rice, and lean meat and dairy? (Like maybe 70-15-15)
Respectfully wondering if anyone here has feedback on eating according to one’s genotype (Dr. Peter D Adamo -blood type diet /eat right 4your type / 4your genotype). ??
I think there’s something to the ‘eat for your type’ diets… there’s another book out there “Death by Food Pyramid” that talks about the differences in ancestry leading to evolutionary variances in things like salivary amylase (AMY1 copies), which directly effect a person’s ability to digest starch.
I’m not sure your blood type is a close enough factor – especially in today’s mixing pot of DNA. It might just take some experimentation on yourself – eat what you want, determine how you feel afterwards… if you get indigestion or lethargic, it probably means that wasn’t the right food for your body (on that day).
Just my thoughts.
B – Denise Minger has an interesting presentation about it on Youtube called “The Blood Type Diet: Rescuing the Baby from the Bathwater”
I did that one, after a naturopath I was going to (who went to school with D’Adamo) strongly recommended it. I went from vegetarian to meat-eater, followed everything, and didn’t notice any difference. But being a good student, I was also drinking tons of water and was freezing all the time, so that could have negated any possible benefit from following the diet.
Hi Matt,
for someone like me that get the train on… taunting and joking about a diet, it’s not enough, you have to explain yourself a little bit more.
Robert Skinner (smile) [the IF diet 2018] pretend to see people succeeded in losing weight and keeping stable since 5 years.
so what’s about the 16/8, the 5:2 week (5 days full, 2 at 600 cal.) and the alternating day (2000 cal. one day, 600 the other, so on…) ?
I can’t speak for Matt, but I can share what I have learned from reading his stuff.
When I first started reading, I was looking for him to say what DOES work to lose weight. This and this and that and that don’t work, insert lots of humor, yeah ok I get it….but what DOES work?! I wanted answers!
The problem is, what I read was that ____ works for some people some times and then it doesn’t, and then ____ works for other people some times and then it doesn’t, and there is never a universal answer that works for all people all the time because our bodies are so incredibly complex with billions of variables that are not in our control (but it’s fun to explore some of them and so he does).
So let’s change the conversation from “how do I lose weight” to “how can I FEEL better from the abuse my body has taken from years of dieting”. From reading the comments section of many of his blogs, most of us have ended up gaining weight and very few have lost it….BUT….with the weight gain we got back our health and our sanity. We’ll take being “fat” and healthy and enjoying food and our lives again over striving (and mostly failing) to be thin, sick, cold, and starving.
Perhaps Matt will chime in and explain himself a little more.
Sharonimo-
You make excellent points. And if you pay attention to what so many say in the comments, despite feeling better they still contend that “I NEED to lose weight”.
We’ve been conditioned all of our lives to believe that being thin is the only way to be attractive. If we don’t get that job we thought we were the best qualified for; if we don’t meet our soulmate; if we fail at anything in our lives, we blame our weight. And in some ways, there is truth to that because of society’s bias against fat. Being heavier and not having a way to change it, especially for a woman, is a bitter pill to swallow.
Ultimately, the beauty of youth will fade if we are lucky enough to have a long life. If you can’t accept that, you better make a lot of money to pay for a life filled with plastic surgery and spanx.
It’s like the Woody Allen joke: ?I’d never join a club that would allow a person like me to become a member.
It’s up to us as an individual to at least be neutral about your body, and accept and appreciate that the ?you? is inside you. What is your purpose on earth- just to look good? YUCK. Who would want a friend like that?
Weight is not the true measure of a person. People who judge others based upon their appearance are mean and shallow. Until the person who is heavier is ready and willing to stand up for themselves and reject the I NEED to lose weight? belief, there will always be a bias against fat people.
Remember Billy Crystal’s comedy riff: “Darling, you look marvelous….It is better to look good than to feel good”..
Feeling better physically is great, but eventually that negative self-judgment about your weight will have an adverse impact on one’s health. And then you won’t look good or feel good!
I am normally a size 3/5. After dieting and delivering my 4th child, going off diets, taking coumadin(that screwed my metabolism up BIG, I ended up gaining weight. I feel better, but still struggle with my temp. It is better since taking magnesium and high doses of vitamin C, but not quite there. It will be in time. With the weight gain, I am a size 11. I do not feel that big. I also get more complements. When I dieted, I was a size 0. I did not even know they went that low until then. My temps now are low to mid 98s. I want them higher. I know I will get there. I also know that I will lose the excess weight, but I really do not feel the need to. My husband loves me the way I am and I have been asked out quite a bit(my ring does not fit since gaining the weight. But I am happy, my children can even tell when their temps are low. Usually when they drink too much. That does not happen much because they are learning to listen to their bodies.
I really appreciate what Matt is doing. I let people know how dieting can effect them, but not everyone listens. I have loaned his books out to a few people. Some have bought the books themselves so they have them. Thank you, Matt, for the inspiration.
Yeah that’s pretty accurate. Although, your version is a lot more optimistic than mine! I’m pretty sure most people will never lose weight and keep it off permanently, and those who do via intentional restriction or deficit and don’t gain it back are going to have to endure a lifetime of very intense self-control while battling low metabolism and all its joys. Like that “raw vegan trucker guy” who gained all the weight back because he was tasting food that he was cooking for his mom! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LkGb03j9ZGo&t=2s
“Even a potato chip could tip you over the scale!”
So I think there’s really no choice but to explore the high-calorie, low-stress way of trying to force the weight set point to fall. But I think we’re a long way from really knowing how best to achieve that, or, at the very least, knowing exactly who can succeed and who can’t and why.
I have read all of Matts books.
I am in Diet recovery mode & have never felt better.
So many things have improved:
Bowels regular for first time in 30 years
appetite normal, no desire to over eat
I eat sugar & salt regularly and feel balanced because of it
I eat normal foods & have no avoids list
depression-gone
anxiety 90% improved
hormones-normal
body temperature-hotter
I am still needing to lose 50 lbs, I know that will come in time.
But, it is not my priority.
Feeling good, normal & being in repair mode is my focus & it feels fantastic.
I have been eating for heat since I bought the book Eat for Heat nearly 6 years ago, found internationally purchased thyroid and supplemented, stopped drinking water by the quart. Eating again my weight gain rose to highest plus 15 pounds more; temp did not rise. When I started looking into and taking a modest amount of D3 4,000 to 6,000 IU in 2017 October to December off and on and finally up to 50,000 in January 2018 is the only time in my life I can remember my waking temps being in the 98s to the low 99s and staying there…needing fewer outdoor winter coverings. And especially so since I upped it latter January to now to 20 mg/100,000 IU to finally stop bladder leakage and keep at bay. Since I now wear lighter or fewer clothing layers, sunshine will be able to reach my skin (northern continental US state) and I suspect I’ll become more naturally saturated with D3 and need less supplemental IU. For staying toasty in bed, I sleep on a positive body circulation 5.3 degree inclined mattress (7 inch risers under 75 inch long mattress). No electric blanket for over 3 years now…just the incline and another layer of blanket in winter which gets tossed off within a few minutes or sometime during the night and just use the sheet if the breeze of the box fan (white noise) is annoying enough to wake me. With D3 it’s even quicker to get back to toasty in a 60 degree cold bed. D3 requires certain complimentary supplements (magnesium, K2, zinc, pregnenolone, etc.) My age 62 with a past of over 4 decades of dieting/starving myself.
AnnB — do you do blood tests of your Vit D levels?
Has anyone else tried the mega-mega-doses of Vit D? As with everything, so much mixed info out there….
Years ago I listened to this podcast between Matt Stone and Dr. Garrett Smith http://180radio.com/180degreehealth-8-dont-supplement-vitamin-d-youre-heard/
It led me to STOP supplementing with Vitamin D and get my minerals tested. I have a rare autoimmune disease that causes me to break out in an allergic rash if my skin gets damaged, usually by the sun, so I cannot get my vitamin D from the sun. I used to take lots of D and FCLO as well. After listening to this podcast and getting my minerals tested with Dr. G, I started taking a whole lot more MAGNESIUM (orotate) and my D naturally went up.
We’re all looking for the magical unicorn, and I swear if one exists, it’s horn would be made of magnesium!
That’s awesome Sharonimo. Love Garrett’s insights on Vitamin D. Some gamechanging shit for sure.
I want to thank all (turtlegirl, Sharonimo) who questioned my super doses of Vitamin D3 and Matt for having covered this in a podcast (I missed it) back in 2014.
The last couple weeks I’ve been experiencing some health issues, and was suspecting D3, but not wanting to be back to bladder leakage, was putting blinders on to ignore it.
Yes, I’m very pleased to have stronger fingernails, no more acid reflux, and no bladder leakage; but not fond of anorexia, headaches and increased blood pressure and the recent need to get up at night to pee.
Will stop D3 and see if my body fat is saturated enough now to keep the bladder leakage at bay.
In my state bordering on Canada the sky is clearing of rain clouds and the temperature is warm enough midday to be outside with light clothing.
Thanks all for your input. Magnesium will be enough for now…and regaining appetite to eat again with pleasure.
If I do supplement again, it will be as little as possible to keep the benefits that I can see: no reflux, no BBL and healthier fingernails (stronger than I have EVER had).
AnnB — you may already know/do all this, but I’m almost positive that I’ve read that Kegels can help with bladder leakage. I hope you find something that helps you.
turtlegirl Kegel exercises have no effect on bladder leakage….as much as they (anyone who has authored a book on it..The Bathroom Key) would like you to think. It’s a much deeper muscle issue than exercises can touch. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3691097/
Let us know how that goes Ann!
Well, it wasn’t the Vitamin D3, it was Staph.
I’d had a V-fungal infection. Treated that with generic Monistat. Then started having headaches that began on the spine at shoulder level going behind the left ear over the top of my head to the cheek. Then it changed to the other side, back and forth.
This last week/third week pus pimples erupted on my scalp where my CPAP straps rest. Picked and popped them and headaches got more severe.
Then it occurred to me (even though I’ve had these before) that it could be staph.
By the end of the third week (late afternoon yesterday) it got a cotton cosmetic pad soaked with Povidone Iodine and slathered the pimply spots in my scalp and shoulder/spine/neck where there was just the throbbing pain. Within the hour the pain was gone.
When the pain started to returned, I slathered the painful areas, (pimples/unbroken skin with pain) and repeated until no pain and knew I’d be able to sleep.
I have a painful spot beginning so will slather, take a shower and slather again as necessary.
Regarding the D3, took a couple days off. First day, OK. Next day, leaky bladder. Since D3 isn’t the cause of the above, I’ll keep taking it and enjoy being able to stand/move/stretch/bend/climb/squat without fear.
No, I didn’t nor have I done any since, nor do I feel any need. I was a dieter for 40+ years and shunned the sun (fair skin which burned easily), always cold so more layers than normal metabolic people all year long, no energy to want to be outside.
For now the indicator that I still need D3 at the 20 mg level is the bladder leakage issue. It stopped the daily use of Always Ultra Thin Overnight pads that was escalating to overnight bed protection if I didn’t want to use a pad in my underwear. It went from stress leakage: cough, sneeze, bending, getting up from a chair, squats, getting down to/up from the floor, getting into/out of bed/a pickup, turning in bed….to just walking across the floor, standing.
I was also constantly drinking bicarb water to curb acid reflux…even from drinking plain water. I was searching for acid reflux relief and found a forum where a woman at age 60 or 64 discovered D3 was healing her reflux and she discovered a side benefit was when a recent onset of bladder leakage stopped within a week.
So I did more research and decided to try it in dosages that actually had an affect. Now I dose accordingly. For now if I miss a full 100,000 IU every day, it begins to return. Get back to the 100,000 IU = no leakage and I can do all the things I listed with no need for clothing protection.
D3 also reduced then stopped any need for thyroid.
Thanks everybody for your responses re: mega-doses of D. Interesting topic. I did listen to the podcast — good stuff!
Additionally, I discovered I wasn’t taking enough Magnesium for the amount of D3 I am taking. It was all used up resulting in heachaches and neck/shoulder pain, constipation.
I had only been taking my normal daily amount prior to D3 supplementation of one capsule and I had recently doubled that. But, as I discovered yesterday, I kept taking magnesium until the headache and neck/shoulder pain stopped. Total 6 capsules of Magnesium Asporotate by Solaray. Cleared up the constipation, too.
Niggling toward a headache when I got up after 5 hours of sleep to bottle feed a kitten, so I took 2 caps with a 1/2 cup milk and back to bed.
Four hours later, no morning headache.
One third of D3, and 2 magnesium caps….will dose both throughout the day instead of just once in the morning.
After 3 months of 100,000 D3 a day, I’ll be continuing to experiment to find my maintenance dose now that I’ll be keeping the magnesium matched to the D3.
As I mentioned before, thyroid didn’t get the temps up or appetite normalized (so I could actually listen to/hear my body, but D3 did. I’m an even pickier eater than before, but no foods are off limits…back to preteen/pre-diet eating. Pickier as in Normal.
If there was a fire in my house, I’d run back in for the magnesium! LOL I’m taking malate and glycinate about 700 mg. Under stress I have to up the level or I get constipated! Boy, my body lets me know when I need more magnesium.
I only take 5,000 iu of D3.
I too, cannot get my temps up during the am. I’m in the 96.6 range, and it goes up later in the day. Night time, I’m warm. (have very weak appetite and digestion).
Recently I’ve been suffering from muscle cramps and weakness in my feet and calves. (tried hydration, electrolytes, pickle juice – YUCK! stretching). Nothing works. Not fun. I’ve done tons of searching in the internet, but haven’t found any answers. I think I may have to check my thyroid levels again and up my dose.
I stopped dieting a couple years back and haven’t gained weight, (23, 5ft4 and 155lbs)I’m grateful to you in so many ways Matt! I was on low carb paleo for a long time, eating mainly fish eggs and green veg and then bingeing like crazy when I got too hungry or couldn’t take it anymore. I still pee like a racehorse though, and struggle to cut back on liquids as I’m frequently thirsty. I still have moments where I’m convinced I should be thinner, but as soon as I get hungry I just react and eat what sounds good. I can’t take diets anymore, the very whiff of one makes me want to just die, it’s just an absolute living hell, fighting your urge to eat all the time. I’d honestly rather lose my legs than go on another diet. I have digestive issues though, presumably from dieting and bingeing all the time, and low carb. I get acid reflux, have a peptic ulcer, and ibs like symptoms. Is there anything I can do to improve my situation? I sleep like I’m dead, eat a broad range of foods and exercise juuuust a little, nothing strenuous.
Fish eggs and green veg, lol. That sounds absolutely miserable!
Not sure exactly what you could do on the digestion front. You might try eating a lot of raw, tropical fruit consistently and seeing if you can at least keep your bowels flowing consistently without inflammation and IBS cycles (I assume you have cycles of constipation and diarrhea that alternate, as is typical). Or just playing around with your carbohydrate sources in general, seeing what treats you the best.
Hi Matt, any thoughts on the idea that Asians are more prone to type 2 diabetes at a lower weight range than others? I hear this everywhere, from the internet to a biochem professor, and the solution they say is to stay within the average weight range by controlling food intake. Have you ever heard about this?
Lower weight or lower BMI? I haven’t heard that specifically, nor do I have any major thoughts about it. In general, the less white a race, the more sensitive that race is to obesity and obesity-related conditions. I believe this may have something to do with people in the far latitudes having a longer history of calorie-dense gourmet eating, and less sensitive dopamine receptors as a result. I wrote about this a little bit long ago in a post about dopamine.
Not sure if its BMI or weight. I just keep on hearing “Asians shouldn’t be as fat as the Westerners” because of this idea. I think an article like this one explains this phenomenon.
http://asiandiabetesprevention.org/what-is-diabetes/why-are-asians-higher-risk
One thing that makes this very confusing though is that some people explain this is caused by carbs. Something like “Japanese eat more rice than Westerners, and that’s why the incidence of diabetes is increasing”. Really puzzling.
Or maybe it was more like “Asians get diabetic before they get morbidly obese like the Westerners”, though I’m not sure if that proves Westerners don’t become diabetic when they are in the “overweight” range.
Incidence of most degenerative illnesses are on the rise in every country.
Here is some of the best diabetes data. Japan and Singapore are among the lowest diabetes incidence in the world. http://www.worldlifeexpectancy.com/cause-of-death/diabetes-mellitus/by-country/
Where diabetes is by far the highest is on tropical islands for some reason, perhaps because those areas were isolated from western civilization the longest?
It’s interesting as pacific islanders are known for eating a lot of fatty meat. Lots of pork, turkey necks, and mutton flap. In 2000, Fiji banned the import of mutton flap!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sQ9ob0kpCeE
But their problems have persisted. The supermarket shelves are still lined with tons of chips, cookies, and sodas and a lot less traditional food. It’s basically like your standard American diet, which is a high-fat diet with the majority of carbohydrates coming from refined carbohydrates. Like 20% of their calories have nutrients, lol.
I mean, I’m all about helping chronic dieters loosen up with their eating, but the majority of non-health-conscious people should be eating a lot more fresh fruits, roots, and vegetables.
I see. At least for Japan, the incidence of diabetes seems the highest in the areas with high consumption of instant noodles. I’ve heard people there literally ingest cup noodles every morning, which doesn’t sound good long term regarding the way noodles are fried in oils.
For Pacific islanders, I saw a documentary mentioning about the lack of veggies and fruits in their general diet, which caused some major malnourishment in their micronutrient needs. It was so extreme to a point where this boy tasted veggies for the first time in his entire life and craved more of them!
Speaking of high fat, do you mean by high conventional PUFA diet, or just fats in general? I tend to gravitate towards lower fat and more carbs anyways, but I’m just curious.
I definitely think a large amount of any fat is probably negative. It loads up the blood and muscles with fat and impairs glucose metabolism. But yes, of course I think PUFA is probably worse when it comes to impaired glucose metabolism. “Turkey tails” and whole pigs chock full of AA are favorites among Pacific islanders, and PUFA-fried noodles loaded with MSG don’t sound too healthy to me either.
Clearly, the best place to get advice on this topic is a shirtless guy on YouTube:
How Often Should We Eat?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=evEKpfgnxD4
———————
John Rose
Here is a small snippet from my file on One Meal A Day and this all comes from Herbert Shelton:
?The Science and Fine Art of Food and Nutrition?
The Hygienic System: Volume II
Herbert M. Shelton
How Much Shall We Eat?
CHAPTER XXIV
? The question of how much to eat has engaged the attention of many able men and women, but the question has not been answered. The so-called scientists have figured out our requirements in calories. This I have already shown to be a fallacy. Most people advocate eating all the appetite calls for. But appetite is a creature of habit and can be trained to be satisfied with little food or to demand enormous quantities. The business of creating gluttonous appetites begins in infancy when infants are stuffed day and night. Dr. Page proved that an infant may be taught to guzzle day and night, or to content itself with two to four meals a day.
? TWO MEALS A DAY
? Major Austin says: “Truly, popular tastes and prejudices are rooted more in social habits than in basic physiological demands.” It should be known that the three-meals-a-day custom is really a modern one, and is not universally practiced even today. So far as history records none of the nations of antiquity practiced it. At the period of their greatest power, the Greeks and Romans ate only one meal a day. Dr. Oswald says: “For more than a thousand years the one-meal system was the rule in two countries that could raise armies of men every one of whom would have made his fortune as a modern athlete–men who marched for days under a load of iron (besides clothes and provisions) that would stagger a modern porter.” He also says, “The Romans of the Republican age broke their fast with a biscuit and a fig or two, and took their principle meal in the cool of the evening.” Among the many things that have been offered as an explanation for their physical, mental and moral decline has been their sensuous indulgence in food which came with power and riches. Whatever other factors may have contributed to bring about their decline (and certain it is there were many factors) there can be no doubt that their excessive indulgence in the pleasures of the palate contributed its fair share.
? Herodotus records that the invading hosts (over five millions) of the Persian general Xerxes, had to be fed by the conquered cities along their lines of march. He states as a fortunate circumstance the fact that the Persians, including even the Monarch and his courtiers, ate one meal a day.
? The Jews from Moses until Jesus ate but one meal a day. They sometimes added a lunch of fruit. We recall reading once in the Hebrew scriptures these words (quoting from memory): “Woe unto the nation whose princes eat in the morning.” If this has any reference to dietetic practices it would indicate that the Jews were not addicted to what Dr. Dewey called the “vulgar habit” of eating breakfast.
? Dr. Felix Oswald says that “during the zenith period of Grecian and Roman civilization monogamy was not as firmly established as the rule that a health-loving man should content himself with one meal a day, and never eat till he had leisure to digest, i.e., not till the day’s work was wholly done. For more than a thousand years the one meal plan was the established rule among the civilized nations inhabiting the coast-lands of the Mediterranean. The evening repast–call it supper or dinner–was a kind of domestic festival, the reward of the day’s toil, an enjoyment which rich and poor refrained from marring by premature gratifications of their appetites.”
? A sixteenth century proverb says, “To rise at six, dine at ten, sup at six and go to bed at ten, makes a man live ten times ten.”
? Katherine Anthony informs us that the average English family adopted the habit of eating three meals a day during the reign of Queen Elizabeth. Andrew Borde, a physician who lived during the reign of Henry VIII, wrote that: “Two meals a day is sufficient for a rest man; and a laborer may eat three times a day; and he that doth eate ofter lyveth a Beestly lyfe.”
? “Barely two centuries ago,” says Major Austin, “the first meal of the day in England was taken about noon. Breakfast was an unrecognized meal and it originated in the practice of ladies taking an early dish of chocolate before rising. The ancient Greeks–the finest of people, physically and mentally, that ever lived–ate but two meals a day. The same was true of the ancient Hebrews and it is the custom of some of the best fighting races in India today.”
? The Countess of Landsfeld, writing in 1858, describes the eating habits of the English upper class of that time in these words: “After this meal comes the long fast from nine in the morning till five or six in the afternoon, when dinner is served.” This would indicate that the two-meals-a-day plan had survived in England up to that time.
? The adoption of three meals a day, in England, came along with the increasing prosperity of that country. Indeed it may be stated, as a general rule, that the quantity of food eaten in any country in all ages, has depended more upon their economic environment than upon their nutritional needs. Wealth and plenty have brought increased food consumption. In Ancient Rome these factors resulted in the eating of many meals a day, the eater taking an emetic immediately after finishing his gustatory enjoyment and then repairing to the vomitorium, after which he had another meal.
? Plutarch must have had such practice in mind when he wrote: “Medicinal vomits and purges, which are the bitter reliefs of gluttony, are not to be attempted without great necessity. The manner of many is to fill themselves because they are empty, and again, because they are full, to empty themselves contrary to nature, being no less tormented with being full than being empty; or rather they are troubled at their fullness, as being a hindrance of their appetite and are always emptying themselves, that they may make room for new enjoyment.”
? Dr. Oswald quotes a Rev. Moffat as saying that the Gonaque Hottentots are nowadays incommoded by a five day’s fast, and get along on an average of four meals a week.
? Major Austin says: “Experience has shown that in the past, two meals a day met the demands of appetite in all fully grown individuals–men and women, including expectant mothers.”
? Many people are like clams–mostly liver and stomach; or, perhaps I should say they are like worms–all gut.
? That all of these ideas are false has been demonstrated over and over again. Overeating by athletes and physical workers is one of the chief causes of premature ageing in these classes. Perhaps the most signal demonstration in modern times of the ability of the body to build and maintain Herculean strength and great endurance on little food, was given by Prof. Gilman Low when he established the phenomenal record of lifting one million-six-thousand (1,006,000) pounds in thirty five minutes and four seconds, after a period of training on one meal a day and less. This lift was accomplished by lifting 1000 pounds 1,006 times in the time specified. This feat was accomplished after two months of training on a diet on which the average stenographer would “starve to death.” For the first five weeks he ate one meal a day, almost wholly of uncooked foods, having meat only twice during this period. His diet consisted of eggs, wholewheat bread, cereals, fruits, nuts, milk and distilled water. During the last three weeks of his training period he ate only four meals a week; the last meal was consumed eleven hours before the lift. In fifty-six days of training for this lifting Low ate forty-seven meals.
? Mr. Low lost five and three-quarter pounds during the thirty-five minutes. Fifteen minutes later, he lifted one ton forty-four times in four minutes. It is particularly instructive that Mr. Low had previously attempted the big feat after training on two meals daily and had been compelled to quit, after reaching a little more than the half-million mark, due to sore distress and dizziness. See, also, Vol. III. (Here, Shelton obviously means Vol. III of his Hygienic System.)?
Gotta love John Rose! He knows how to save the world!
Yeah the Greeks and Romans didn’t eat breakfast because A. They slaves and the women did all the work, and B. “Dinner” was a four hour binge of fine dining, so yeah, you won’t be hungry for breakfast
Whenever I hear or think about restricting calories I think about the Saxon boys. Strongest men alive, if their diet schenanigans don’t inspire you to up that eating bar, nothing will.
https://www.google.com/amp/s/physicalculturestudy.com/2016/10/26/eat-like-a-saxon/amp/
i read eat for heat today, but im sort of confused now how to plan my eating and drinking lol im so used to having a cup of coffee in the morning and one at 2pm plus i drink water throughout the day. today i only sipped some water but i am so thirsty! also i ate a pretty good breakfast, 2 eggs with feta cheese scrambled in coconut oil, ezekiel toast with butter and jam. this has kept me full that its close to dinner and im not hungry yet. do i really have to force feed myself through the day to get my temps up? and the drink thing i need to know when and what would be good during the day. help! confused
Sharon, you might want to take note of your calorie intake, just to get a ballpark idea. To get your temps up, you’ll have to eat at least 20X your lean bodyweight per day in calories, and that’s if you are completely sedentary. Eating what sounds like about a 600-700 calorie breakfast and being too full to eat anything all day long after sounds way too low to me.
Matt, how do i figure my lean body weight? and multiply it by 20 to figure it out? im actually 25 lbs overweight for my 5’2 frame and having a hard time losing that now that im 50ish lol. i do moderate workouts during the week. Also im at a loss now of how and what to drink during the day since im always thirsty
At 5’2″ your lean bodyweight is probably around 110. At age 50, I’d say 2000 calories would be the absolute minimum amount you should consume if you expect your temps to increase.
I wouldn’t restrict your fluid intake so hard. I would put the emphasis more on eating more food, especially salty, carbohydrate-rich, calorie-dense food. When you do drink something, make sure it is sugary and either add a pinch of salt to it or drink with meals.
i wish i was 110-120 but ive slowly crept up to 142-45! I don’t have much of a sweet tooth and don’t really like sweet things that much let alone sugary drinks. so that makes if a bit rough because then i think sugar will make me acidic (cancer feeding) you know the drill. but i personally not a sugar drinking person. so what do i do about that? i wish you could just draw me up a meal and drink plan for the day to give an idea of what i should have. ive counted fat grams in the past and total carbs but not good with calories lol sorry for all the questions
I wonder what its like watching ready player one while starving.
Keto pet food, anyone?
https://ketonaturalpetfoods.com
Damn. I wish I’d thought of it first.
Matt: You could still make a big splash with your “Bullshitproof Coffee.” But, the window of opportunity will probably close in the next year or two. I’m actually surprised the fad has lasted this long.
Did survivors of the Holocaust become obese after they were released from the prison camps? I’ve seen some interviews with a few survivors and they looked like they were a healthy weight. I’ve read that the Allies controlled some of the initial refeeding so that survivors did not “eat themselves to death.” Food was probably still scarce in the war-torn areas of Europe. I would think the survivors just ate what was available and that their diets (and weight) normalized as food became more readily available to them. My question is, are we all over-thinking this? Matt has said “just eat the food.” Yet a lot of the discussion here is still about what to eat and when. Maybe obesity is caused by factors that have nothing to do with food intake, such as toxins, etc.
@Jeanne, those are my thoughts exactly! he says just eat and everyone is still confusing me about high carbs but low fat cuz it won’t burn fat if its high with the carbs and yada yada yada. just when i decide im just going to eat there are still all the little scruples lol! if ones metabolism is functioning normal everything should work normal is what i take from all this
Hey Sharon,
I’d say 20% of people who have pursued refeeding and have gained weight initially have gone on to lose all that weight and then some in the 2-3 years following. That leaves a lot of people fat wondering if there is any way to lose the weight. The discussion isn’t complete. It will never be complete. You won’t find any finality here.
I’m in the 80% who hasn’t lost the weight, but I did lose my desire to lose weight. I don’t even care anymore. I just eat food intuitively, exercise how I enjoy, and focus on more important things in life. That’s my finality.
I think weight will normalize itself after the re-feed, if people let it take its own natural course, as happened for those in the Minnesota Starvation Experiment.
Agree that obesity isn’t just about what you eat. At all. Most of one’s obesity proneness is set before birth and during the first couple years of life.
How We Get Fat
http://180degreehealth.com/how-we-get-fat
Jeanne,
I know the microbiome is the topic du jour today, but it makes me wonder about the difference in what foods people eat today and what was available 50, 100, or more years ago.
Also, as someone dealing with a chronic condition (including various, recurring infections), I don’t think there’s enough conversation about peoples’ health. A lot of commentary happens under the assumption that people are, aside from some extra weight, otherwise healthy. This is likely not true across the board.
It was once thought we needed to lose weight to be healthy, but I remember Matt flipping the script and suggesting that perhaps we need to get healthy to lose weight.
Processed Food and The Gut Microbiome
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8iJytRlOvfk&t=318s
“Food choices impact the health of the gut microbiome and may be responsible for recent increases in C. diff infection.”
What do you think?
Carl,
I think the microbiome probably plays a significant role in our overall health and agree that we must be healthy to achieve and maintain a “normal” weight. I used to have high hopes for probiotics. But after spending hundreds of dollars on them, I don’t see any difference in my overall health. In fact, after a round of topical chemotherapy left me with chronic diarrhea, probiotics and soil based organisms did nothing to improve my condition. What did finally help was activated charcoal and increased carbohydrate consumption. It may be that the dose of probiotics and SBOs needed to be much higher or I needed different strains. I think researchers still have a lot to learn there.
But you bring up a really interesting point about recurring infections. I’ve been wondering about how tonsillectomies in childhood affect a person’s weight in adulthood. I can find a lot of information that says that children will typically gain weight after a tonsillectomy but nothing that says what happens to them as adults. I’ve done my own totally unscientific study of friends and family who had tonsillectomies as children and 100% of them are overweight as adults. Even if a bigger and more scientific study showed such a correlation it could be that it isn’t the actual loss of tonsils that causes excess fat in later life but the chronic infections that led to the tonsillectomy in the first place. And maybe there is no direct cause and effect to be found. Maybe chronic infections, surgeries, medications, etc. simply play a contributing role.
It’s such a complex issue. So many people here are looking for an answer and Matt has repeatedly said there isn’t one. Lianda has made a number of comments about simply accepting your body as it is and focusing on other things to live a full and rewarding life. That’s what I’m trying to do.
I was a former WAPF chapter leader and cheerleader for the GAPS diet to help heal the gut. Boy was I off!
I saw how GAPS was actually helpful for children, but for adults, I never knew of a single person who got better. Not one. And not just personally, but also from all the FB groups and WAPF chapter leader forum or blogs or whatever. I read everything. It just didn’t make sense that we had to keep throwing more and more bacteria in the gut, but they never proliferated and intolerances (and overall health) got worse. Part of that was due to the high bone broth (water) and restrictive dieting screwing up the metabolism.
But the other part was MINERALS! I saw this study about the bacterial profile in soil being completely dependent on the mineral content of that soil. I met Dr. Garret Smith (initially through Matt’s podcasts)and we talked about this. He told me that it’s been known since the 60’s that MAGNESIUM is what seals the gut. GAPS throws so much bone broth at the leaky gut issue, but it just doesn’t have enough minerals, plus it slows down the metabolism. Magnesium plus several other minerals (depending on the individual, based on hair mineral analysis)creates the environment for the right bacteria to thrive.
Now that I got my minerals in balance, I can’t tolerate large doses of probiotics anymore. I just don’t need them like I used to, because I’ve got plenty. I can do small doses of sauerkraut, yogurt, kefir, or other cultured food without issue, but an entire bottle of kombucha makes me bloated.
So now when I teach nutrition classes (rare because my passions lie elsewhere), I talk about four fundamental things:
1. Eat real food, as nutrient dense and clean as you are able (still kind of WAPF but not to the extreme. Like, eat real natural fats but don’t go adding butter to everything)
2. Eat balanced for you. If you’ve been eating cheeseburgers for years, eat a salad. If you’ve been eating salad, eat a cheeseburger! You might have to swing to the opposite end of the pendulum before you find a happy middle.
3. Eat foods that keep your metabolism hot.
4. If all else fails, get your minerals checked.
Side note: Dr. G let me in on a little secret. Turns out, ALL of his patients do better on magnesium (orotate), potassium (orotate), beef liver capsules, and turmeric. He doesn’t automatically prescribe these, it’s just based on what comes back from the Hair Mineral Analysis.
I’ve actually found eating a ton of butter to be very satisfying and good for me. <3 Like a TON. probably 700 calories worth twice a day, of grass-fed butter, plus just as much soft goat cheese, on real sourdough. I am a freaking health-superstar on this "diet".
What about zinc? I'm surprised zinc isn't on that list.
So half your calories is butter?
Thank you for your comment and mention of liver. I despise liver, but have read of many and just read the how-to to make frozen liver ‘capsules’ that I can just toss down with a tastier beverage. Next time we butcher a steer, I’ll ask for the liver and do this for us and our sons’ households…so we can all be healthier.
Hi, Lisa:
Were your comments serious, joking, or half-and-half?!
:-)
Also, on an unrelated note, how do some of you folks have a profile photo and most of us do not? I’d like to add some fake pictures to my fake names!
Why does he prescribe the turmeric? Is it part of his anti-viral protocol? To lower inflammation generally? Do you know what dose and/or brand he recommends?
Lisa – Unless we’re re-feeding, I don’t think we need as much butter as WAPF recommends. I, too, LOVE some Kerrygold on sourdough, but since my metabolism has finally gotten faster/hotter, I don’t crave it as much anymore. It’s not all about calorie intake, but it is a piece of the puzzle. We do have to pay a bit of attention to it, if we’re getting far to little or far too much based on our individual bodies and health. When re-feeding, I ate an egg sandwich with cheese (and sometimes bacon) on butter-slathered sourdough every morning! Now, I just like 2 eggs with cheese and I’m good.
As far as zinc goes, I was on zinc as well, but not EVERY person needs it. It all depends on the results of their individual mineral analysis. There is no one size fits all protocol (for minerals or diet or anything really), so again, Dr. G never automatically puts everyone on magnesium, potassium, beef liver, and turmeric, it just turned out that nearly every person needed them and did well on them.
Ann B – I just buy the beef liver in capsules from Amazon. I find it especially beneficial during my periods! But I don’t take it every day, just days when I’m feeling kind of weak for no reason.
Anna – One of the reasons I love Matt AND Dr. G is that they both loving going down rabbit holes. Turmeric was once a favorite rabbit hole for Dr. G! He once wrote on his FB that if you google nearly ANYTHING with the word “Turmeric” and “Abstract” (“abstract” in the search will lead you to the actual studies, not just blogs) you’ll find that it helps with EVERYTHING! Why? Is it because it’s anti-viral or anti-inflammatory? Honestly, I can’t remember. I just try to remember to take it when I think of it.
hi Sharonimo – what a helpful, great post you wrote! I was wondering then, what foods DO make your metabolism hot, and how would I know if/when my metabolism WAS in fact hot? thank you.
bg – Have you read Matt’s books “Eat for Heat”? A summary (from memory 5+ years ago when I read it) was to eat a lot of everything, especially saturated fats, starches, sugar, salt, more sleep, stop exercising like a maniac if that’s what you were doing, drink only enough water/liquids so your pee isn’t clear, and be kind to yourself. There’s more but I forget! And we know when our metabolism is healed when we not only FEEL better (not cold anymore, not peeing every hour, hair stops falling out, anxiety wanes, libido increases), but when our waking body temps are above 98. BUT SERIOUSLY, READ THE BOOK, I’ve probably missed half of what Matt wrote!
Jeanne,
Thanks for the reply and sharing your thoughts.
Unfortunately, since I have one foot in the world of Lyme Disease, the topic of tonsillectomies did arise, at one point. My tonsils were removed, too, around the age of 10 or 11.
I’ve never been obese, but I was overweight as a child and into adulthood. At my heaviest, I was about 35 lbs. over what is likely an ideal weight for my height. These days, I’m probably 10-15 lbs. over an ideal weight.
But, that’s somewhat bogus, because ‘weight’ doesn’t take body composition into account. I’ve been sick for nearly five years and unable to exercise at all. So, I’ve lost weight — probably some fat, but definitely muscle.
Anyway, whether or not it was the infections, I’ve also got issues with digestion, and, I feel fairly certain, malabsorption. Via a real-time test to measure it, I was found to have low stomach acid.
I also have longitudinal streaks and ridges on my nails that some say confirm malabsorption. I think Chinese Medicine suggests the streaks could be heart-related, but I’m had a few Echocardiograms, Carotid Intima-Media Thickness test, and Coronary Artery Calcium Score, so all indicators are my heart is fine, thankfully.
Blood tests show low values for certain vitamins, minerals, amino acids, and other markers. Other values, such as Estrogen (Estrone, Estradiol, and Estriol) and DHT are high. High Carbon Monoxide, too. High HSV-1, HSV-2, HHV-6, Mycoplasma Pneumoniae, Chlamydia Pneumoniae, and others. Extreme, persistent fatigue — for nearly five years, now. Tinnitus, too. And, along with occasional cold hands and feet, I have thinning of the outer one-third of my eyebrows and a wicked, recurring sore throat at the FRONT of my throat — around the Adam’s apple. All thyroid labs are ‘normal,’ though.
But, before all this stuff, waaay back, I grew-up on a farm. I would run barefooted all over the place — in the pig pen (barf!), around the cows, chickens, sheep, ducks, etc., etc. I stepped on rusty nails (a tetanus shot followed), glass, manure, you name it.
I cut myself many times, broke a leg on a motorcycle, fell out of a tree, got kicked in the sternum by a horse, and had a M-80 firework explode in close proximity (a failed attempt to throw it at the right time) numbing my hand and causing ringing in my ear. There were many bites from ticks, mosquitoes, horseflies, and wasps, too.
In the military, I endured other system assaults, such as removing all four (perfectly fine) wisdom teeth, amalgam fillings, and various vaccines. Shortly after all this, I began having debilitating migraines. Today, 30+ years later, I still get them, though they’re better managed through a cleaner diet.
Later on, while I was still in the military, I had numerous chemical exposures via skin and lungs. Within a year, or so, of this exposure beginning, I became more and more sensitive to all chemicals. I could no longer wear cologne or scented deodorants, be around perfume, or tolerate scented candles, diesel exhaust, cigarette smoke, air fresheners, or any other artificial chemical. If I get even a slight smell of the exhaust of a clothes dryer, it will give me a headache and make me nauseous — especially if one of those disgusting dryer sheets are used. That sensitivity also persists to this day, 30+ years later.
So, if there’s a point in all of that (there’s more, but that’s already too much), I guess that we all endure lots of assaults over our lives. Those assaults can accumulate and become additive. At some point, we cross some threshold, and something breaks. We get sick, have a food sensitivity, develop a chemical allergy, or whatever. Or, if a system doesn’t ‘break,’ then perhaps it operates less efficiently or less optimally.
Lots of things get into/onto our bodies, via our:
* Diet (chemicals and additives in processed foods, but whole foods can have pesticides, waxes, bacteria/poop, and possibly viruses and who knows what else)
* Air (vehicle exhausts, off-gassing of furniture, rugs, foam mattresses and pillows, sofas, computers, industrial factories, cigarettes, etc.)
* Water (pharmaceuticals, bacteria, heavy metals, etc.)
* Skin (swimming in dirty/untreated bodies of water, slathering personal care products on our skin and under our arms, being around others — especially in hospitals, etc.)
* Blood (via injecting things/drugs into our bloodstream)
My feeling is a person would need to be 100% optimally healthy, these days, to deal with all of these insults effectively. We have all this ‘stuff’ going in/on us and how much is being effectively dispatched? How much is lingering behind? And, for anything remaining, what’s it doing? What’s the impact?
Not having symptoms doesn’t automatically mean we’re healthy.
So, I couldn’t agree more with you about the complexity of things. One complex system layered upon a different complex system layered upon another.
In the end, maybe none of this really matters. Perhaps I should just try to find a way to be happy and eat ‘reasonably’ — whatever that means.
I’ve spent so many years “intellectually interfering” (to quote Matt’s books) with my diet that I’ve come to a place of not knowing if something is “good” or “bad” for me.
Perhaps even worse, I no longer find any joy in food or eating. I dread each time I get hungry, because I have to figure-out out what’s the “best” thing I can choose, given the options I think I’ll be able to choke-down.
I understand why Rob Rhinehart’s ‘SOYLENT’ product appeals to people. I would rather just drink some colorless, odorless, tasteless liquid that has all the nutrients my body requires. Eating has become an obligatory burden…like putting gas in the car. Just stop, fill-up the tank, hurry-up, and move-along.
The final funny/sad truth is I’m sitting here, at 1:20 AM EDT, on a Friday night / Saturday morning, writing this, and I just finished a bowl of…oatmeal.
How lame…on so many levels. :)
Amazing comment Carl!
Carl,
I’m no counselor, so take what I have to say with that in mind. Maybe Lianda will join in here. I think you have to just start eating some food that is not “the best thing for you.” Eat a piece of cake or something that would taste good to you and not cause a negative physical reaction. Also, there are ways of bringing joy to the experience of eating simple foods like oatmeal. You could share it with a friend. Or, if eating alone, set the table nicely with some fresh flowers as a center piece and play some music. Take your oatmeal or whatever outside with you and enjoy some nature with your food. In most cultures I know of meals were/are enhanced with socializing and other sensory experiences. Too many of us today in the western world are tempted to choke down something barely tolerable while we work or do something else “productive.” Eating should be pleasurable and I believe that is why Matt advocates eating highly palatable foods.
My thoughts are with you.
Carl, whoa I get it! To this day, I can literally take ANY FOOD and lecture on all the reasons it’s good for you AND all the reasons it’s bad for you. I actually used to do that when I was a WAPF chapter leader! CRAZY! CAN WE JUST EAT FOOD AND STOP OBSESSING?!
For me, one of the many things Jesus has saved me from is this obsessive eating disorder. I’ve had to switch my focus to things that are true, noble, right, pure, lovely, admirable, and praiseworthy. But I can easily get sucked back into the trap of food and body obsession, which has zero reward. Solidarity, my friend, I’m with you!
Thanks, Matt. As Dean Martin once told Frank Sinatra: “It’s your world; I’m just living in it.”
Hi, Jeanne:
Thank you for taking the time to reply. Your advice is wise and makes sense.
I need to get out of my own head for a while. I’ve heard this numerous times from therapists. Too much left-brain, they say. And, I agree.
It’s part of a longer story, but I think that a lot of my intellectualizing things comes from my upbringing and childhood, given the environment of lack and loss.
I’m always trying to find the “right” answer to every problem (or, health question), so I don’t end-up repeating the same mistakes my parents made. They ate and drank whatever they wanted, but, unfortunately, passed-away very young. So, I feel obligated to make better decisions.
While I *do* make better choices, I often worry they’re not good enough. In my mind, every meal is an opportunity to move toward health or further-away from it. Only, due to cognitive dissonance, I know it’s not quite that simple.
Is it better to force myself to eat Brussels sprouts and be miserable -or- eat that piece of cake you mentioned and temporarily enjoy the taste and later feel guilty? Rhetorical question. The stress about certain foods may be worse than the foods themselves.
Assuming sugar, butter, milk, and eggs are healthy (I’m not saying they are or aren’t), then why are they okay separately, but not when combined into, say, a doughnut? Again, rhetorical question.
My aforementioned physical (and, mental) ailments are likely further complicating matters. But, I also know that I’m not likely to ‘think’ my way out of the situation, since it’s my thinking that’s really the root of the problem.
I’m not sure where that leaves me. Maybe action without thought is needed? Just drive over to my local doughnut shop (they do make froufrou doughnuts – local ingredients, organic, no preservatives, made daily by hand, using the tears of celibate monks who meditate in silence, blah blah) and get one…or, three. That could be a slippery slope.
Anyway, thanks for your advice!
Best,
Carl
Carl — I don’t know if you’ve already tried these things, but I thought I’d offer up a couple of suggestions, in case they might help you.
1) there’s a guy who runs a successful clinic (in London, I think) who believes that Multiple Chemical Sensitivity and ME/CFS are rooted in chronic overarousal of the amygdala and insula, which causes multiple physical problems — and that you can retrain those automatic responses. He sells a home-study program that’s pretty inexpensive, I think. He had ME/CFS himself for 3+ years and has been completely cured for several years now.
https://www.guptaprogramme.com/mcs-multiple-chemical-sensitivity-treatment/
2) re: protein malabsorption, what seems to be helping me is eating a couple spoonfuls of sauerkraut right before eating, taking some HCL w/pepsin with every meal containing 20+ mg protein, and drinking raw milk with and between meals (and making some kefir with it).
I hope something in this will help, even a little bit :)
Thank you, turtlegurl! I appreciate your help!
I’m familiar with Ashok Gupta, but only barely. In May of last year, I had found and downloaded several of his YouTube videos.
But, like I tend to do with diet-/health-related things, I squirreled them away and promised myself to circle-back and investigate closer. But, I never did. Instead, I keep searching for new things, keep archiving more information, and my backlog gets bigger and bigger.
Thanks to your reminder, though, I will actually take some time to watch his videos and review his website. I quit my job, a few months ago, so I’ve got plenty of free time…at least, for a little while.
Speaking of my amygdala being aroused (sorry, this blog does that to me), around the same time I found Ashok Gupta, I found another program that may be similar. It’s called the Dynamic Neural Retraining System (DNRS) and was created by a lady named Annie Hopper.
Here’s the site: https://RetrainingTheBrain.com
Some of the video testimonials are pretty amazing. People claim to have used DNRS (in whole or in part) to help resolve CFS, MCS, Lyme Disease, and more.
As for my digestion/malabsorption issues, I’ve never tried sauerkraut. That is, I’ve never had it for any reason. But, I’ve read good things about it. From what I understand, we might get billions of beneficial bacteria from supplements. But, with fermented foods, some have said we get trillions of beneficial bacteria. So, that’s an easy thing to try.
I had been taking HCL w/Pepsin, like you do, but got worried I might be doing some harm to my stomach. Even with meals containing little protein (and, even zero animal protein), I was taking four capsules per meal with no burning.
As you likely know, according to Steve and Jordan at SCDlifestyle.com, their suggestion would have been for me to continued increasing my capsules until I had some burning and then back-down to one less capsule. Then, as the burning sensation reappears, keep backing-down by one capsule until I get down to zero.
Is that the protocol you’re following? Do you have any lines/ridges on your nails, too? Or, any outward signs of malabsorption? Do these pants make my butt look big?
Carl — do the pants make your butt look big? Um, well, it’s not the pants….hahaha
Re: the HCL — a very smart and knowledgeable badass nutritionist I was talking with recently said that that’s not a good rule-of-thumb, i.e. you don’t always get burning when you have enough HCL. She told me to start with 2 capsules and, at the max, go to 4. She also said to only take HCL with a protein meal containing at least 20 mg protein. Yes, I have the vertical ridges and am also missing the moons at the base of my nails — those should come back, but it will take time.
Re: sauerkraut, supposedly the raw and fermented kind is the *best* for you.
I think Ashok maybe mentions DNRS, but I’m not sure. I know he talks about some other approaches and how his is similar or different. I can’t remember if I’ve checked into DNRS before. I do the same thing of always researching tons of stuff…I read so much that I sometimes can’t remember if I actually read a particular thing or just intended to in the maze of info and thoughts! Thanks for the link.
*** We have so many comments on comments, I’m not sure if I’m responding to the right post to get my comment where it belongs! ***
Thanks, turtlegurl, for the tip to start with two HCL/Pepsin capsules and not to exceed four — only taking with a protein meal containing 20 mg of protein or more.
After thinking about your comment, it makes sense that we wouldn’t always get burning, when we have adequate HCL. If we did, even healthy people (with normal stomach pH) would have a burning sensation. So, thanks for that tip. I’m glad I stopped taking HCL capsules, since I was doing it incorrectly.
Regarding sauerkraut, raw and fermented. Check!
It’s not my pants, eh? haha Actually, I wish I had some padding back there. It’s often uncomfortable sitting on any non-cushioned surface.
I guess the ass is always greener on the other side.
Hello Matt,
I’ve been looking for a recent update on the metabolic zone. My husband and I really want to try this health direction but are hesitant. We have both dieted on and off all of our adult lives. We are both obese and of course, have not had any luck in the past. Would it be possible to chat with you further about this direction and to get some clarification on a few things I’m not completely understanding? Thank you so much!
Hi Brittany,
I haven’t taken calls in ages unless it’s dealing with someone with a very severe eating disorder. But I’d like to make an exception and speak with you and your husband. Please email me to set that up at sacredself@gmail.com
Awesome!
Thank you, Matt!
Carl,
I used to be just like you. I commented earlier that I used to only eat fish eggs and vegetables. Everything else seemed dangerous under the assumption that anything other than perfect eating (which to me was low carb) made me a lazy fat failure destined to get diabetes and become super morbidly obese. If I ate a piece of fruit I envisioned myself as a slack chubby sack of shit, not feeding my lean mass with adequate protein, and would try to be even stricter again the next day. I turned down social occasions because I couldn’t eat any of the food options, I lived in misery. The only thing that helped me (and its not easy to do) was to push myself to eat what I actually was craving when I was hungry. Anxiety would fly up when I did it, but over time I got more and more comfortable with it, and only now I truly see how crazy I was. It’s not even the food that is the sad part, it’s what the restrictions do to you and how it makes you limit your life. Today I woke up hungry and made oatmeal with milk and cocoa, added peanut butter and strawberries, and had a protein bar (I genuinely like this particular protein bar, it seemed appealing to me). when I got hungry at lunch, I got sushi (never would have done that a few years ago, the rice would make me panic) and fried chicken with veggies covered in soy and ginger sauce.. The weather is hot today so I made a fruit smoothie with about 5 types of fruit later in the evening, and then had yoghurt nuts and seeds with berries just now, and some crunchy peanut butter put the jar. Loads of carbs! A day like today a few years ago would have me depressed and anxious, now I’m just satisfied and grateful I can eat what I want, when I want. It’s no easy feat, but pushing yourself to try the very foods that you fear is what will help you. There is no one food that will instantly make you fat, sick, old, blah blah blah. But there’s plenty of food you’ll eat and be like “dayyyyum If eating this is wrong, I don’t wanna be right”. Don’t fight your body, because the truth is we have less control over our lives than we like to think. You can eat as healthy as you like and die young, so you may as well aim to stroke the balance between pleasure with food and caring for your body while you’re here.
Eree, PREACH!
I knew a man who was wealthy enough to eat the best, healthiest foods on the planet. HUGE garden (that his household employees tended). Best doctors money could buy. Then around Christmas this past year, he started feeling sick. Went to the doctor, was diagnosed with Candida, then after a few more tests, was diagnosed with Acute Myeloid Leukemia. Immediately checked into the hospital, with the best doctors, and died 10 days later.
Some of the most anxious, fearful people I’ve ever met aren’t those who have been abused or have been through some traumatic experience. They’re those obsessed with “healthy” food!
I refuse to live in fear anymore.
Hi, Eree:
Thank you for that epic post. One of the many things I love about this blog is we (you, me, Matt, all of us) can usually relate to many of the things we share. We’ve traveled many of the same paths to get here. So, when you read what I wrote, I know you get it. And, I think I can relate to what you’ve shared, too.
Despite my not being 100% sure about what to eat or not eat, fortunately, I still eat a variety of things. I may suspect it’s not the best or ‘healthiest,’ but there’s not too much that I restrict. I’m just sorta burned-out with food. I eat only because I have to. I eat white rice, lots of fruits, plenty of potatoes, beans, corn, etc. I eat some chicken and a little more beef (still grass-fed/-finished, though – old habits die hard) and rarely pork.
If I want cookies, I buy them. Granted, they’re often gluten-free (for no good reason, other than habit) with minimal ingredients. Whether fortunate or not, I don’t crave a massive amount of junk food. If I want potato chips, I get ones with just plain sea salt or sea salt and cracked pepper and fried in avocado oil. If Lay’s chips were fried in better oil, I’d buy them more. I like plain ol’ Frito’s corn chips, but not corn oil. But, again, if I have a craving for them, I’ll get them and deal with it.
Overall, though, I’m more inclined to eat plain the 365-brand of Corn Flakes from Whole Foods Market with flax milk. It’s got crunch, a little sweet, and a pinch of salt. I actually don’t crave a dozen doughnuts or an entire yellow cake with chocolate buttercream icing. A few bites, sure. Maybe even a whole slice. But, not too often. I used to eat a fair amount of chocolate and ice cream, but rarely have those, either.
For me, once a food is out of the normal rotation of things I eat, I lose the craving for them. Lately, I’ve been eating a gluten-free cinnamon raisin bread with fresh-ground almond butter and a mixed berry jam. That’s not bad, but, again, most foods are just kinda ‘blah.’
Back in 2009 thru about 2013, I was that annoying person who asked a restaurant server 50 questions about the food — is it gluten-free, is such-and-such cooked with oil? If so, which kind? Can I get it without oil? Can you cook it in butter? You certainly know the drill.
I remember going on a first (and, last) date with a nice woman who questioned my odd dietary habits. I figured, of course, she didn’t ‘get it,’ because she was a ‘regular’ (i.e. unenlightened) person. She was actually a Pharmacist and quite smart. And, for what it’s worth, thin, active, and appeared to be healthy, eating whatever she wanted. Of course, now I realize I was the unenlightened one!
Thankfully, Matt helped to lift much of the dietary fog that cluded my brain.
I still have issues, of course. I think it’s from all the reading/watching/listening to Caldwell Esselstyn, Joel Fuhrman, Nathan Pritikin, Walter Kempner, Neal Barnard, Pamela Popper, Jeff Novick, Alan Goldhamer, Doug Lisle, Michael Klaper, Joel Kahn, T. Colin Campbell, and Michael Greger, to name a few.
Matt has read, from what I recall, some 400+ books on the topics of diet, health, disease, lifestyle, etc., so he’s read all I have and more. But, I’ve only read a fraction of a fraction of what he’s read. But, I know there is something to Matt’s books and information. The comments on this blog, alone, bear that out.
The fact that he can assimilate all that information and come out the other side and report there’s still no magic diet, nutrient, or food does make me feel better. I don’t think I ever had anxiety about food. At least, I never had an anxiety attack when thinking about a food or eating it. I do have anxiety issues, otherwise, but that’s another story.
While I never had an eating disorder, the stupid Paleo/Primal/Low-Carb/Etc. diets did make me a disordered eater. (From what I understand, those are two different things.) And, I still fight some of that thinking, though I don’t really restrict things like I used to.
Now, I often think “Well, who knows?” and eat things anyway. I do usually avoid fried foods, as that seems prudent. I suspect eating asparagus is likely better than eating a cookie, so, given the choice, I’d select the asparagus. But, I also know I can actually have both.
I watched my parents eat and drink whatever they wanted, as I grew-up. You know how some folks say I’d rather die young and happy than live long and be miserable. Well, that’s what they got — one dead at 50 and the other at 49. I’ve lived past the age of one and am about to live past the age of the other.
I don’t think they were thinking of anyone other than themselves, when they were living as they liked. Certainly not each other nor their child. So, in addition to considering my own health, I have others to consider, too.
Plus, my parents weren’t so cavalier with their attitudes, while being hospitalized in the end stages. That’s where people usually say “If only I could go back and do things better” rather than “I’m glad I lived the way I did.”
But, hindsight is usually 20/20, as they say. Plus, there are no guarantees. So, maybe it’s all a crapshoot. I certainly have no idea.
Again, I value and appreciate your comments. I’m glad you seem to be doing so well. I wish you the best.
Yeah Spackler, I do wonder about your joyless relationship with food. I can see that having two parents that died young has been a scary thing for you, but I do suspect that it has caused unnecessary food phobias, and to live a joyless existence with food may very well be holding you back from reaching the next level up in your general health and overall well-being.
But, I might also be wrong about this. Perhaps a pristine diet is the path to true health, and we’ve all just missed it because we restricted macronutrients or didn’t eat enough, which takes any benefits you might get from a perfect diet and completely flushes them down the drain, as calories and carbs trump clean, nutritious eating every day of the week and twice on Sundays.
I’m honored to have created a safe haven for open discussion regarding nutrition and health, and to have connected with all of you and see you benefitting from this site’s existence. Long live the D!
“Long live the D!” haha! You’re the OG Big-D playa… Welcome to the goodie blog. (I just watched that, again, last week.)
Seriously, though, I really do appreciate your books, this blog, and all the commenters. There’s a lot of good information, heartfelt comments, and real-world experience. I would take all of that over a PubMed study, any day.
You know, the thing of it is, I wasn’t worried about my diet, lifestyle, or certain foods or macronutrients, until I started ‘trying’ to be ‘healthy.’ You’ve written about this and I know others can relate, too.
Now, maybe I should have been worried. Or, at a minimum, perhaps I should have been a little concerned. I smoked and drank, for a few years, but quit both at the same time, around 27 years ago.
Otherwise, until my early 30s, I never bothered thinking about what was in my food. I ate whatever. Doritos, Taco Bell, McD’s, candy, cookies, chocolate, truckloads of Cinnamon Toast Crunch cereal (like two HUGE bowls, right before bed, and I would sleep like the dead!), Slim Jim’s, burgers, pizza, fries, onion rings, and on, and on.
Now, I did suspect that wasn’t an ideal path, but I don’t recall consciously drawing any parallels between my behavior and the fate that befell my parents. That came about a decade later. I thought that stopping drinking and smoking was pretty much sufficient.
Despite eating all the junk I did, up until my early 30s, I was rarely sick and my body temperature was like a blast furnace in a steel mill. I was about 20-30 lbs. heavier and not active beyond what was required to walk to/from my car or walking around the building at work. I was in the DFW area, at the time, and hardly anyone walks anywhere.
It was in my early 40s that a friend told me about Sisson’s ‘Primal Blueprint’ book. That’s when I boarded the train to Crazyville.
Of course, like you wrote at the opening of this blog post, all diets work — until they don’t. So, for a while, things seemed great. I wasn’t even really following Sisson’s dictates, other than avoiding all grains and legumes and most fruit. (Beware the ‘Carbohydrate Curve’ and the “Steady, Insidious Weight Gain” LOL!) Instead, my casual interpretation of his book meant I could eat all the butter, bacon, eggs, meat, cheese, nuts, and chocolate I wanted. And, so I did.
One month, I spent over $50 on dark chocolate. Of course, that’s not difficult to do, when dark chocolate bars are $5.00 or $6.00 each. Another month, I spent over $50 just on bacon. As a single person, I was spending $800 to $1,100 a month on food.
Sure, I’d have some token asparagus or Brussels sprouts (cooked in coconut oil and anointed with Kerrygold butter), but I ate lots of bacon and eggs (one day, I ate a dozen eggs, cooked in bacon grease), grass-fed beef burgers and hotdogs (with like 1g of sodium each), loads of nuts, etc. Many of us have probably been there.
I was perplexed that, despite all my daily exercise, I couldn’t lower my body weight/fat. I mean, I was eating all those healthy eggs in bacon grease, a pound of bacon alongside, and several spoonsful of the magical coconut oil. What could be the problem? (Duh!) Some lipid markers were good and others went rogue. It was a mixed bag.
Being skeptical that I might be in a cult (because, as you know, diets, cults, and religions have a lot in common – and, Robb Wolf is called “Paleo Baby Jesus”), I started reading more and more of those against Paleo, Primal, Low-Carb, WAPF, etc. So, that’s all the previous folks I mentioned: Barnard, Greger, Klaper, et al.
That’s when my mind split in two and the cognitive dissonance began.
Should I believe all the Paleo people who, for the most part, looked fit and buff? (Who, also, were mostly young and had never wrecked their bodies for many decades.) Or, should I listen to all the skinny vegan experts? (Many of whom, by contrast, looked gaunt and hollow.)
Would pastured eggs give me choline or coronary disease? Would bacon give me protein or prostate disease? Would beef give me CLA or a TIA? Despite everyone (allegedly) looking at the ‘science,’ no one could agree.
This is when I tried to identify foods that all sides could agree were “bad,” so I could restrict them. But, this wasn’t easy. So, trying to find foods that all or most could agree were “good” seemed like a better idea.
Of course, this came-down to vegetables, as it usually does. People squabbled over starchy vs. non-starchy, but that seemed less concerning to me. I always loved fruit, so this was something I never planned to completely eliminate.
Eventually, after falling ill, I thought it was likely because I’d been eating too low carb. So, I went far in the opposite direction and ate lots of carbs — mostly whole food carbs like beans, rice, corn, potatoes, etc. All the stuff I always loves and ate growing-up. Unfortunately, this didn’t fix me. But, with several more years of perspective, I still think it was the right decision.
A year after falling ill with whatever I had (likely walking pneumonia), I was bitten by an infected tick and things really went sideways. As crazy as the ‘regular’ health nuts are, the Lyme folks really seem to take it up a notch. They’re deeply entrenched in “Clean Eating” and lots of restrictions. Perhaps those things do make a positive difference in some, but, for me, it was the opposite. Like you’ve long suggested — a poorly-functioning body needs more fuel, in order to run all the systems. I now believe that chronic disease and restrictive dieting are a bad match, generally speaking.
At this point, I no longer believe in a magical diet, food, macronutrient, micronutrient, or phytochemical.
I try to be supportive of others, but, when I hear the word “Superfood,” I chuckle internally — sometimes thinking of David Wolfe.
When someone wants to tell me about the miracles of their ketogenic diet (after three days), I just nod and give some words of encouragement.
Or, when it comes to fasting: “Oh, you bought a 300-page book to explain how to not eat? That sounds cool.”
I just wish food held some sort of appeal to me, rather than being a necessary burden filled with conflicting feelings choices, and, often, regret over the choice. Perhaps if I can improve my physical health (fatigue, infections, and other things), maybe my mental health will improve and some desire and joy will return.
Until then, I’ll just keep pressing-on. It’s all I know how to do.
There is, however, one silver lining in this giant, dark, depressing cloud. It’s made me realize how good I did feel, despite any extra weight, before things went south.
I realize how many things I either took for granted or simply ignored. On hikes around the Arboretum or in the surrounding mountains, I was rarely present. I was often listening to a podcast (health-related, of course) or music and not listening to the birds, the crunch of the gravel under my feet, or the wind blowing through the trees.
I hiked to the top of waterfalls, but it was always about the destination and not the journey. It’s clich?, sure. But, it’s still true. Everything was a means to an end. And, when that end came, there was no celebration or appreciation. It was simply something to be crossed-off a mental list. Check. That’s done. What’s next?
While I was proud I could crank-out 50 military-style push-ups in one shot, I felt bad I couldn’t do more. I could hold a plank for two full minutes, but not three. My body, while a bit doughy, was strong. There was little I couldn’t do. I could lift myself off the floor with only my legs. I could walk, hike, or bike for hours. But, it seldom seemed enough.
These days, my perspective is much different. Now, when I sit on the small back deck of my apartment, I feel the sun on me and I’m grateful. I pay attention to the flowers that are blooming on the bushes and trees. I watch the birds and really hear the sounds they make. I remind myself to breathe deeper and enjoy things as they are because they will always change. I don’t argue with people. I’m more patient and understanding. I listen more. It’s no longer about me.
It’s highly unlikely I would have had ANY of those realizations, had I not become unwell. But, I’ve had the last five years to work on these things, despite my having exactly zero intention of doing so.
So, I got that goin’ for me…which is nice.
I feel another blog prayer coming on. This one’s for you, Carl :)
And now, I sit me down to eat
To devour rice and stir-fried meat
It looks good, smells good, tastes good too
But I start to wonder, as I chew
Is it too many carbs or protein or fat?
On info-overload, I don’t know where I’m at
Should I read more? Or maybe read less?
This might be a case for Elliot Ness
Nobody know what ?normal? means
Low-carb? Dairy-free? Just rice & beans?
Oh, to have the bliss of ignorance back
Where I didn’t worry what my diet my lack
Or which food might give me a heart attack
Orthorexia: it’s the new black!
But when I can enjoy my food
It puts me in a better mood
And who knows? That enjoyment may be
As important as Vitamins A or C
In the interest of having a little more fun
I’m gonna polish off a big cinnamon bun
Don’t know if it’s right or wrong or dumb
Just know over-thinking has made my mind numb
And if I make some big mistakes
At least I got to eat pancakes
Ramen
That is FANTASTIC, turtlegurl! hahahaha!
You’ve got some serious skills!
Thank you for the dedication. What I wrote earlier today, regarding my crush, now goes double! :)
Raw-Men
Thanks for the kind words, Carl — and the double-scoop crush ;)
“Raw Men” works well in the song “It’s Raining Men”. (It’s raining men — hallelujah! It’s raining men. Raw men.)
LOL @ “Bullshitproof Coffee”. Yeah, Matt — you could totally clean up on that, dropping in ads all over the web and doing YouTube vids on how to make it. I would definitely buy that coffee, whatever the price, just to protect myself from the onslaught of BS that’s constantly being piped in from every direction.
Long live the D!
Raw-Men is actually something quite different Carl. It’s a band of fruitarian comic book superheroes that can run really far but are completely impotent and have saggy lizard skin.
I’m pretty sure that “It’s Raining Men” was written with them in mind. In fact, the refrain contains the words “impotent” and “saggy lizard skin”. It’s a great song to rock out to in the car.
RAMEN!
I think it was Turttlegirl who said something about wondering if she would have been better off having never reading anything about nutrition. I’ve often wondered the same thing. Every member of my huge family is thinner and in large part healthier than I am. They don’t eat exactly everything they want, but they’ve never even heard of grass-fed beef. They eat meals like roast beef, mashed potatoes, gravy, carrots, a small side salad with bottled dressing, and a crescent roll from a tube that you bake at home–and maybe a dessert. I haven’t eaten like that since I left for college 42 years ago! I’m thinking that’s my problem. I’ve been trying to improve on that by getting into minutia like how the beef was raised, whether the vegetables were organic, and what kind of fats were in the salad dressing and rolls. It seems like my pickiness has not helped me one bit.
I’m not sure where my diet obsession originated. Carl has mentioned that his parents ate and drank whatever they wanted and died very young. So he wanted to improve on that. My parents have always eaten as described above. My dad is 89 and still rides a bicycle daily! My mom has dementia at age 87 but is in good health physically. It doesn’t seem like their food choices have hurt them at all.
I keep going back to Matt’s advice to just eat the food.
Matt, I have a question on the low fat approach. Is this possible for women? I only see men succesful with this. I went vegan fruitarian to improve my digestion, eating 4000-5000 cals of mostly sweet fruits bit got too thin and lost my period for 2 years. Lots of sweetened dairy desserts were my refeeding favorites. Now my period and breasts are back, but my breasts are hyper sensitive the second half of my period. I think I should cut back on dairy fat, but am unable to restrict anything for the moment. Started refeeding two years ago and not yet ready to stop…
I’m not Matt, but I remember that pain and that magnesium seemed to stop it. I googled ‘magnesium and painful breasts’ and that is what several websites recommend for that half of the cycle.
I don’t think it’s any different for men than women. I suspect that fruitarianism is a very different animal from a low-fat, mixed, cooked food diet. You don’t absorb the calories from raw, fibrous food as well as cooked, and to get so little protein (and so little of the more anabolic amino acids), is another issue. The absurdly high water content is probably also a huge problem, and then the lack of salt. Too many problems to list. Fruitarianism absolutely obliterates me in the limited trials I’ve given it.
It’s also probably best not to continue with a really low fat diet long-term once you’ve gotten lean. The moment you’re even close to being underweight you should stop.
Eating low fat or very low fat meals that are well-salted and consist of a ton of starch and animal protein is completely different. A 1,200-calorie fruit meal would make me freezing cold. A 1,200-calorie salty fish and rice meal is extremely warming.
Hey Matt,
Any reason you’re into fish lately? Trying to cut down on the particular aminos in land animals? Or doing low fat fish to cut down on PUFA? I know Dr. G isn’t into fish because of heavy metals and other contaminants. Thoughts?
Just trying out Zach’s high-calorie, ultra low-fat approach with fish vs. doing it vegan. Fish may very well be full of contaminants, so maybe not the best choice. I had some asthma problems come back recently, so I prefer using fish over low-fat dairy. Asthma is already improving dramatically since I lowered my fat intake substantially at the beginning of April. I prefer shellfish and have been eating lots of scallops as well.
Hi Matt – had one more question on the ultra low-fat approach, if you wouldn’t mind sharing your thoughts.
I was thinking of maybe trying the ultra low-fat approach, but I wasn’t sure if it would be the best thing for me. Basically, I have been refeeding for the last two months. My under-eating over a period of a year and a half took me from a BMI of 26 to one at BMI 21 (no purging, mostly just not eating as much as I should have). At BMI 21 I experienced a lot of the slow metabolism/low-thyroid symptoms. Luckily I found your work. In the first month of eat the food refeeding, all of the symptoms were reversed. I gained a lot of the weight rapidly, of course. Now, on my third month, the weight gain is really slow. I’m around BMI 28 now.
I was thinking of maybe trying the ultra low-fat approach, to maintain high calories, while just reducing fat intake to, well, lose fat. I have been eating a whole of fat during this period of refeeding (whole milk especially).
But I was reading about some of the damage that anorexics experience in their body, especially to their organs. I wasn’t full blown anorexic, but I suppose there is still some damage left to recover, since I can only sleep around 6 hours maximum straight without waking. Temperatures are high (auxiliary always 98.3 or higher during the day, can even peak to 99 F after a starchy dinner), and pulse is around 80. Imperfect sleep is only symptom I have left.
Do you think I would be hindering full recovery by going to the ultra low fat diet? Or do you think it’s still possible? Of course I will be shooting for at least 3500 calories. Cutting calories is cut out o’ my life.
Gotcha. I’m trying to dabble a bit with low fat as well. I feel my body doesn’t love dairy, but I really like it and it’s way easier than cooking fish/meat. So sticking with the dairy for now. Have to work on getting cals up.
Additional context: 29 years old man, no dieting experience in the past, no drugs/alcohol, otherwise in good health.
I remember Masterjohn saying something like the selenium off sets any heavy metal contamination from seafood. Don’t know if that’s true or not, probably not if you are eating tuna and shark steaks all day but shellfish I bet is ok. Scallops are so high in taurine that they will make you invincible anyway.
I’m liking the experimenting!
Asthma?
Clearly, you have leaky gut and need a combination Gluten-Free, Phase I GAPS, Autoimmune Paleo, FODMAP restrictions, Low-Oxalates, Lectin Avoidance Diet, Raw Vegan Juice Cleanse, Coffee Enemas, and Contrast Showers Before 4.
I’d also suggest contacting John Demartini and see if he can help raise your vibrational level with some positive visualizations, crystals, and/or Quantum Field Therapy.
If all that fails, there’s always the Cyclic Ketogenic Butter Diet.
Don’t forget dry skin brushing, far infrared saunas, chakra balancing, nasal irrigation, supplements for your MTHFR gene mutation, and detoxing the excess copper you no doubt have in your body.
Oh, yes! We can’t forget that MTHRFKN MTHFR!
Actually, you listed a bunch of the things the Lyme Disease folks talk about. They say was must detox! As if it requires thought and action on our part. Because, you know, our bodies can be lazy and not pay attention.
“Hey! Yes, liver, I’m talkin’ to you! Stop lollygagging and get back to work! Don’t make me invoke Andreas Moritz’s ‘Amazing Liver and Gallbladder Flush’ to expel those several thousand ‘stones’ I know you’re hoarding!”
Whew! All this typing is making me dizzy. Earlier, I expelled a bunch of mucoid plaque. So, I’m probably just lightheaded from the toxins getting stirred-up.
Of course, it could also be due to my calcified Pineal Gland. I’m currently drinking 52 glasses of distilled water per day, to help decalcify it. Then, I should be able to perform Astral Projection, just like I read about in OMNI magazine, back in the 1980s!
Oh yes, of course! How could I have forgotten the liver & gall bladder flush? If you don’t choke down several cups of olive oil with lemon a couple of times a year, those organs will be like a ticking time bomb, waiting for the perfect opportunity to destroy your health. Plan several hours —- better yet, the whole day — on the toilet. You’ll lose a lot of important minerals, of course (and a day of your life). But it’s better than trusting your liver.
Did you say 52 glasses of distilled water per day? I’ve heard you need at least 100 if you want to decalcify your pineal gland.
And, of course this is just common sense, but always wear magnetic bracelets and toe-spreaders. Failure to do so will result in asthma, 100% of the time.
Haha. You guys are funny. You missed the one TRUE secret to health though. Drinking your own piss.
Ooooooh… I’m supposed to drink MY OWN piss!
You’ll have plenty of opportunity (i.e. all day) to collect your urine while you’re sitting on the toilet during your liver & gall bladder flush. “Collect” isn’t even the right word, though, as you’ll just drink it immediately. Feel the vibrant health.
Well as someone who has done 44 liver flushes and is rapidly reversing the ravages of serious adrenal dysfunction after the birth of my son, I can tell you that as funny as it sounds, it ain’t no con. I’m forever grateful I gave it a go, and 2 years in, I have my life back. And before people say it’s placebo effect- it’s not, as I had tried for 10 years before that to recover from chronic fatigue and had tried everything under the sun, including just eating the food (which I still do to this day). Believe me, I had plenty of opportunities to experience the placebo effect given every woo-woo thing I tried. Nothing ever brought my temps up, no matter how much food I ate. I suspect when you’re harbouring multiple infections which are trashing your adrenals and thyroid, then temps aren’t going to shift much. Now I am much warmer than I used to be, since I suspect my viral/bacterial/fungal load is less, due to flushing. So, laugh at it all you like, but if you’re suffering from long-term chronic illness, it’s a f$%*ing godsend.
Elizabeth, could it of been the action of flushing the Bowels that made you feel better? I read a pretty prolific book by Kellogg of the cereal fame who’s main message was to poop 2-3 times a day for health. It seems putrification is probably a huge role in sickness. Also a coffee enema seems to be a much healthier alternative to a top down liver flush.
The only way to confirm that actual ‘stones’ were being flushed is to (1) have ‘before’ and ‘after’ ultrasounds performed, and (2) have the expelled ‘stones’ analyzed. What are the chances that someone would still be expelling ‘stones’ after 44 flushes? (Rhetorical question.) Anyway, some doctors *have* analyzed the ‘stones’ that people expel, after drinking oil, and, not surprisingly, it was saponified oil. If a person feels better afterward, that’s fine. But, the procedure is not without risk, as someone could lodge a stone (real or saponified oil) in the bile duct and end-up in the hospital having emergency surgery.
Elizabeth’s testimony and Zach & Carl’s responses had me rushing to google immediately to look this up. I, too, have known people who have done these flushes and felt much better! So I’m curious Elizabeth, do you think it had to do with your body just expelling more junk? Had you tried an epsom salt flush or coffee enema and not gotten results? And if indeed it is just saponified oil, what else would be the reason for feeling better? We can’t ever dismiss someone’s personal experience.
Anyway, here’s what I found in googling, and what is MOST interesting is in the comments, not the article itself! https://www.curezone.org/forums/am.asp?i=1679567
Hi, Sharonimo:
For what it’s worth, here are just a few of the resources that I reviewed about the subject:
https://www.upwellness.com/debunked-the-gallbladder-flush
http://words.tev.net/?p=324
http://elderandsage.com/blog/the-myth-of-the-livergallbladder-flush
https://youtu.be/0tOvl_ePTRM
I don’t doubt that people are passing something, during those flushes. My questions, however, are: (1) What are they passing? and (2) Where were they created?
I don’t doubt that Ms. Wells (http://www.naturallywells.com) felt better. She said she did, so that’s good enough for me.
There are people on both sides of the debate that claim evidence to support that flushes DO work and DO NOT work. So, I don’t pretend to know “THE” truth — assuming there is one single truth for everyone.
However, as previously stated, I don’t think the procedure is without risk. If a person wants to perform a flush, that’s their right to do so. I would just hope they would consider both sides of the debate.
Personally, I’m more inclined to consider the results of diagnostic imaging and the analysis of expelled ‘stones’ by doctors, versus anecdotal stories from people who don’t have much to support their theories except a belief.
It doesn’t mean the latter group is wrong. But, I’m not willing to risk emergency surgery to have my gallbladder removed, due to following the advice of someone who may or may not be making a correct association of cause-and-effect. But, again, to each their own.
My hope is simply for people to be healthy, feel good, and not cause harm to themselves or others.
@ Carl: well, you CAN drink your own urine (more readily available), but I like to buy O.P.P. (Other People’s Piss) at Whole Foods. Get down with O.P.P., yeah you know me!
+turtlegurl: hahaha – We must be about the same age, given the references we share.
I haven’t seen O.P.P. at Whole Foods, so it must be a special order item. I’ll only buy bottles of O.P.P. that have asparagus spears in them!
As a side note, I’m about halfway through the audio version of Penn Jillette’s book “Presto! How I Made Over 100 Pounds Disappear and Other Magical Tales” and I find it REALLY funny. He narrates it and that makes it all the better. Anyway, in the book, he refers to Whole Foods as “Asshole Foods.”
Now that I see that last part in print, it evokes some new mental imagery — which I’ll not share. You’re welcome. ;-)
Carl: O.P.P. is in the refrigerated case, right next to their bottles of Bulletproof Coffee. I’m doing a liquid fast right now, using just those two things. I’ve never felt better.
(Groan) It probably won’t be long before that ludicrous idea becomes a reality. Somebody will write a book/blog about the amazing benefits of drinking O.P.P. (e.g. how it cleans plaque out of your arteries, decreases inflammation, and lengthens telomeres — significantly more than drinking your own!).
But you don’t want to just ask your friends and neighbors for their urine, like some sort of philistine, for godsakes. No! You are going to go to Asshole Foods and spend good money for it — and be rewarded with the added health benefit of self-righteousness. Besides, the most effective O.P.P. is the non-shared DNA type — which just makes sense, when you think about it.
You might even get inspired to write your own blog on how to make O.P.P. smoothies, fermented O.P.P. , and fun O.P.P. recipes for kids!
Who’s down with O.P.P., on 180D? (thought I better change the refrain a little, so that Naughty by Nature doesn’t come after me for copyright infringement)
It’s all about those telomeres Turtle!
turtlegurl,
You’re definitely one of the funniest people I’ve (n)ever met! Seriously!
I believe YOU are the one that needs a blog to highlight your humor and writing!
Before it vanished without explanation, I listened to the “Evil Sugar Radio” podcast and read the blog. The hosts, Scott Kustes and Antonio Valladares, would roast many of the trends in the Diet/Health blogosphere.
You would be great at filling that void.
@ Carl: thanks for the kind words.
It would be fun to do a blog or something along those lines. You’re funny as hell. Maybe we could be partners in crime ;)
Carl — and anyone else who might care: remember earlier on this blog when I was laughing/groaning at the ludicrous idea that someone will eventually try to sell us O.P.P. (Other People’s Piss)? Well, I just learned that the ancient Romans beat us to it.
According to National Geographic and other sources, the emperor Vespasian (A.D. 69-79) had the urine from public urinals collected and used as an ingredient for several chemical processes (because of the ammonia in it). It was used in tanning lotion, laundry detergent, and tooth whitener. The buyers of the urine paid the tax.
And why would people have paid for O.P.P., instead of using their own urine?? Because we never value what’s in our own backyard — or in this case, bladder. If O.P.P. is good enough for brushing your teeth with and rubbing on your skin, so is your own.
That is like SO crazy that you mentioned other people’s piss. I was just working with my web developer on creating a site where people can auction off their own urine called P-Bay.
In other words, instead of getting down with O.P.P. get down with Y.O.U. (Your Own Urine).
Hey, turtlegurl,
Wow, I’d never heard about Emperor Vespasian (VesPISSian?) and how the Romans used urine.
The first thing I thought of was the Mel Brooks movie “History of the World, Part I.”
https://youtu.be/JGfXiIXTpE0
Tanning lotion, laundry detergent, and tooth whitener. That’s crazy. Have a golden shower and enjoy the resulting golden tan.
You’re quite the encyclopedia of interesting facts.
Carl — maybe Mel Brooks knew this fact about ancient Rome? At least we don’t have to pay urine tax, like they did.
All I know is that I’m about to save a whole lotta dough on detergent, toothpaste, and water for toilet flushing.
Who’s down with Y.O.U. Yeah, you know who!
P-Bay…haha. Good one.
Check-out this, turtlegurl…urine therapy is alleged to cure CANCER. Among other grandiose claims.
https://www.pulse.ng/lifestyle/beauty-health/7-unbelievable-health-benefits-of-urine-therapy-id7800102.html
I recall Justin from the “Extreme Health Radio” podcast talking about urine therapy. At the time, I didn’t know what he was talking about, and, since he didn’t define the term, I thought “Oh, he must be drinking a lot of water so he can pee a lot and flush his system.” Little did I know what he REALLY meant.
Bottoms-up!
Matt: I like the P-Bay idea — partly because it will cut into (Ass)Whole Foods’ profits on O.P.P.
Carl: thanks for that link. I really want to see someone do the urine + potato starch paste on their scalp to treat hair loss. It reminds me of that Seinfeld episode where George orders a “bald cure” from China, but whenever he puts the paste on, everyone complains about the smell and he always ends up washing it off.
I’ve been hearing/reading about people’s “urine therapy” testimonials for a long time now but just can’t see myself getting into that. Maybe I don’t really understand and am missing out. But, aesthetics aside, our bodies work hard to get rid of urea. Why put it back in?
Recently, I overheard a guy talking about having gone “off the grid” for awhile and drinking his own urine during that period. He described it as “not nearly as bad as things I had to do when I was in prison”. Yet, despite his rave review, I’m still not persuaded to start drinking urine — mine or anyone else’s.
Hey, turtlegurl:
This quote from your previous comment:
?…not nearly as bad as things I had to do when I was in prison.
haha – If was wasn’t forced to drink someone’s piss, he was probably having to toss their salad.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5dwN9TsK4lo
Given the choice of the two, I’ll take the former. :-)
Last night, I poked fun at John Demartini. Today, I get an e-mail notification about The Fasting Summit 3 that starts tonight.
http://fastingsummit.com/fs3
Guess who is featured as a speaker on Day 1? Yes, John Demartini!
I think the Universe is trying to bring us together. Maybe my calcified Pineal Gland will be transformed into a crystal and my Third Eye will have holographic vision into the Quantum Field.
Haha. That’s amazing.
Have you ever seen any proof that the liver can hold on to these stones? Why then wouldn’t animal livers ever have any deposits? I tried finding pictures of videos of a dissected human liver with stones and found nothing. The liver is a filter, I don’t see how it could have any space to build up stuff like this.
I’ve checked out that upwellness article and it fundamentally misunderstands what is expelled through a liver flush- yes it’s very hard to expel gallstones. Most of what exits the liver are biliary ‘stones’ which are made in the hepatic ducts and are the non-calcified precursor to gallstones. The liver can hold 1000s of these.
It is important to note that drs can’t see biliary stones, only calcified stones show up on ultrasound.
Each flush can release anything from a few stones in single numbers to hundreds- it can take many many flushes to dig out all the old accretions of bile and cholesterol that have gathered there over a lifetime, so many more flushes are usually required than Moritz’s initial estimate.
The saponified/olive oil/soap stone theory just isn’t the case. I have expelled many small stones just through using the preparatory softening agent malic acid, before any oil has been ingested.
Furthermore most of my flushes are not successful- this may be for many reasons- I have fungal overgrowth and this can cause biliary obstruction (also well known)- also sometimes a flush pushes matter further down into the cystic and bile duct but doesn’t push it out. If the soap stone theory was accurate, with the same ratio of ingredients being a constant each time, why am I often expelling nothing at all other than loose stools? I’ve done 8 consecutive flushes where no stones were released… hugely frustrating, and indeed symptoms got worse because of the increased impaction of stones in the liver- I got colder, more anxious, more constipated, more achy, couldn’t sleep- everything got worse.
I finally released the matter and all those symptoms above improved again.
Clinical studies show that it is perfectly possible for a stone to be released spontaneously. How much more easily can this happen when it is being expelled by a strong bile contraction into ducts that have been lubricated and relaxed by oil and Mg sulphate.
BTW that website address no longer works. I am no longer practising as a nutritionist but I give out my info for free now on my facebook page (www.facebook.com/naturallywells) and a new YouTube account where I am going to post updates about my progress (Naturally Wells). I’ve also recently incorporated red light into what I’m already doing with flushes.
In the last 2 years of flushing I have found:
– reduced PMT
– no more panic attacks, racing thoughts and anxiety
– better sleep
– better mood, temps up more consistently- hitting 37C in the evenings more often
– gynae symptoms that used to blight my life (thrush, BV) disappeared after about the 6th or 7th flush and never came back
– better daytime energy, no ‘crashing’ (I recently went out to my first rave in 10 years and lasted until 4 in the morning- I think this is pretty amazing!)
And objectively, I have been able to reduce from 50mg hydrocortisone in staggered doses throughout the day (for severe low cortisol) to about 8-10mg once a day in the AM. Fully expecting to be able to quit it entirely in the next few successful flushes.
I don’t think any of that would happen just from ‘flushing the bowels’… I also practised regular enemas anyway, so that was never an issue, and I never got these benefits from enemas.
Believe me I was once a sceptic. But do you think I would continue doing them every 3 weeks if they gave me no concrete results? Neither would the 21 000 members of the Facebook group I belong to (Liver and Gallbladder Flush for Optimal Health)- if it didn’t work or it was a swizz, then how do you account for all their testimonials?
Believe me I was once a sceptic too. I’m not an idiot, I did my research. I’d been trying to get well for at least a decade before that, and this is the ONLY thing that is getting me there relatively fast.
How is your fungal overgrowth being diagnosed?
I’m glad your health has improved so much, Elizabeth. Ultimately, that is what matters the most.
Hi Carl and Turtlegurl –
Speaking of Bulletproof Coffee- have you seen a recent photo of Dave Asprey? Looks like his bulletproof coffee has
been not working the way he claimed! He needs to update his photos….
https://stresseatingsolutions.com/fat-diet-guru/
Hi, Lianda:
Thanks for the link. I’ve not seen any photos or information from Dave Asprey in a long time.
Even when I did follow many “health” blogs and podcasts, I didn’t really connect with Asprey or his information. At the time, I wasn’t sure if he was correct or not. There was just something about him, his claims, or something else that caused me to mostly ignore him. I felt similarly about Tim Ferriss.
Maybe it was the whole “hack yourself” promise. I have issues when a person thinks they’re smarter than their body’s own innate processes.
Since your blog post mentioned JP Sears, do you have any idea what eating philosophy he follows? I’ve only watched a few of his very funny videos, so I don’t know much about him personally.
Sincerely,
Carl
Re: the Fasting Summit — I’m amazed that I can still be temporarily mesmerized by these type things, with all their seductive promises of perfect health (not just physical, but mental and spiritual too, of course). It’s all so shiny. At first glance, some of these people look really healthy. But some do not. And others just look crazy. And then I see one of their bonus gifts: “6 Lucrative Ways to Create a Soul-Satisfying Career as a Certified Juice Therapist Guide”, and I almost wish for a giant asteroid to hit the planet.
Yes, I admit to almost wishing for asteroids WAY too often.
Dammit! My last post never appeared…
In it, I made fun of the “Juice Therapist” title, invoked some George Carlin, and professed to wishing for a giant, flaming meteor to strike my house and end my suffering. Just imagine all that content written better and funnier. The muse is no longer upon me.
Speaking of signs that a planet-wide extinction event is warranted:
Vinny From ‘Jersey Shore’ Is Now ‘The Keto Guido’
https://www.yahoo.com/lifestyle/vinny-apos-jersey-shore-apos-160000324.html
https://www.instagram.com/ketoguido
Jesus, Joseph, and Mary on a Donkey — he has Eric Berg and Stephen Phinney listed on his Instascam account. Thank God we have these enlightened celebrities to bring us the truth. Because, you know, the government, and stuff.
Chicxulub, take me away.
Skinny Guinea Vinny the Keto Guido! That makes my day.
Speaking of keto, I just got an e-mail saying the keto summit is starting soon. That’s a whole week of people saying how good a keto diet is for you. Two to three people each day. The minute I saw what the keto diet was, I knew they were idiots. We used to keep goats and it is bad for them to go into ketosis. My thought was, if it is bad for them, wouldn’t it be bad for us? That can kill a goat if not fixed. I would think it would have the same effect on us.
“Vinny From ?Jersey Shore? Is Now ?The Keto Guido?”.
Isn’t that one of the Nostradamus predictions for 2018?
Thanks AnnB and Matt. It’s true, after a Thai meal I am almost feverish. Great for libido too and makes exercise easy. Almost as good as chocolate ;-)
Sharonimo/Matt/anyone that can help, I have been rereading “Eat for Heat” and am curious about the water drinking. I consider myself recovered and quite healthy in many ways, but I drink an abnormal amount of fluids. It’s not even habit, I seem to be constantly thirsty. I thought maybe I was diabetic, but when tested my bloods were normal. I can honestly buy 2 Litres of water and down it- and then a glass or two, and maybe even a cup of coffee. what I find interesting is I suffer from poor circulation in my hands, and whenever I have tried to drink less water I feel like death (I feel like I’m hungover, groggy,dry skin, headachey, no energy) and always wind up caving and just drinking what I need. People constantly comment that I drink so much. I pee like crazy, even when I have tried to reduce the amount I drink, and getting the colour right has been difficult. Sometimes it’s been clear when I’ve been actively cutting back and feeling dehydrated, other times it’s yellow but I’m peeing like crazy because I have drank so much. Also, I had to get a colonoscopy last week (fun!) and had to be pretty much fasted beforehand. I hadn’t checked my temps in a long time, and when fasted it was at 96.8F. Should I force myself to drink less and suffer through the discomfort? I find adding sugar and salt to drinks disgusting, and it doesn’t help that I like black tea and coffee.
“Should I force myself to drink less and suffer through the discomfort?”
In this case I think probably, yes.
Eree, some of what you’re describing actually sounds like symptoms of a slow, cold metabolism, so yes, less water, but I would also really consider looking at mineral testing. It also sounds like you may be low on at least magnesium, but before you start chugging that, get your minerals tested. It’s cheaper to get tested so you know what you need than waste money throwing stuff in your body that you don’t.
Yes you can over-stimulate your thirst response- and it might be that you’re losing too much water because you’re low on salt/electrolytes. I seriously used to over-dose on water and always felt horrendously thirsty. Started gradually cutting down and adding unrefined sea salt to the water that I did drink… the 2 things in conjunction worked pretty quickly and now I have it about right, and am drinking significantly less plain water than I did a few years ago
I recently heard of living on Prana where you don’t eat or drink anything and live off of air and light. So…the fasting has gotten out of control as you predicted.
Also known as breathatarians
“Living on Prana” gives me a mental image of them living on a different planet (wonder which solar system?)
Sure would cut down on the ol’ grocery bill.
I’d love to meet a breathatarian, just to see what kind of physical and mental health they’re in. If anyone is heading to Prana, can I catch a ride?
You didn’t really frame a question but beer is definitely fat promoting, mainly because of how highly estrogenic hops is. No wonder all the hop heads out there are sporting beer belly’s and moobs. All alcohol is counter productive to fat loss because it interrupts normal bodily functions. All alcoholics I know don’t eat much. They seem to not have an appetite and drink most of their calories, that will keep you skinny. Russia and France are both high alcohol consumption and low BMI though.
Here’s something that I’ve been wondering about. I haven’t seen any fat alcoholics living on the streets. Mostly all they do is eat junk food and drink.
Alcohol is all sugar. Of course living on the streets is very stressful, and I’ve never seen a person who looks very healthy drinking out of a paper bag on the streets.
And, I rarely read anyone’s comments that include reference to drinking alcohol and its effect on weight. I have a feeling that most of the people who post do not abstain completely from alcohol.
Thoughts?
You didn’t really frame a question but beer is definitely fat promoting, mainly because of how highly estrogenic hops is. No wonder all the hop heads out there are sporting beer belly’s and moobs. All alcohol is counter productive to fat loss because it interrupts normal bodily functions. All alcoholics I know don’t eat much. They seem to not have an appetite and drink most of their calories, that will keep you skinny. Russia and France are both high alcohol consumption and low BMI though.
The kind of alcoholics I’m thinking about are getting most of their calories from drinking. And it can be quite a lot of calories! And they stay on the thinner side.
I assume that people whose drink of choice is not beer don’t get a beer belly, and they too, stay on the thinner side?
How does alcohol consumption fit in with RRARFING? Is the liquid consumption a factor? Do drunks have low body temperatures – tend towards thyroid conditions? (has anyone actually investigated anything like this- doubtful).
Even some beer drinkers wont get too fat if they stick to the lower hop lower calorie beers like coors light. Eventually though it will catch up. Your body will stop burning fat while it deals with alcohol so if you are drinking for a major part of your day, staying skinny will be tough. There are definitely studies done on the detrimental side effects of alcohol but I don’t think alcohol is incompatible with health. Again the French are those paradoxil people who drink quite a bit, mostly wine and aperitifs, high sugar and calorie drinks and they also eat a lot of fat and carbs in general. I think lifestyle has a lot to do with it. Exercise especially. If you walk and bike instead of drive everywhere, chances are you will stay skinny. Some Russian populations are very long lived and they say it’s the vodka that keeps them healthy. Might be the antibacterial nature of spirits.
Russians have notoriously high degenerative disease rates. Much higher than the U.S. http://www.worldlifeexpectancy.com/cause-of-death/coronary-heart-disease/by-country/
France much lower. It’s hard to speculate about various regions and their health. For example, some of the countries with the highest diabetes rate have the lowest heart disease rate. Good luck figuring that out Gary Taubes!
From what I’ve read alcohol suppressed body temperature (even though it makes you feel warm).
I suspect those who aren’t eating anything but just drinking alcohol are not getting enough protein, and turn catabolic from it. I remember seeing some rodent study that found, with low enough protein intake, they could eat way above the normal calorie intake without gaining fat. The study authors speculated that there is some built-in mechanism to keep eating until sufficient protein is consumed without gaining fat, so that an animal could survive off of even extremely low protein foods.
But who knows really? Alcoholics living on the street also probably burn a ton of calories just regulating their body temperature out in the elements 24-7.
I remember back when I was reading vegan authors like Dr. McDougall, they mentioned that homeless people on autopsy we’re usually found to have squeaky clean arteries since most of their calories came from alcohol and so they were on a low fat diet by accident. To them this proved the fat–heart disease link.
As for me I was never much of a drinker. However, if we accept Lustig’s idea that fructose (especially HFCS) is almost identical to ethanol and is handled similarly by the liver… Then I was basically an alcoholic lol drinking 2 litres of Coke a day (NOT diet!) For over 20 years. Before Coke I was a skinny but muscular kid (mesomorph/ectomorph mix), high energy, into sports, but after Coke addiction I shot up to over 300 pounds and health went to shit. If you ask me, Coke may not be the only factor, but it was definitely at the crime scene with a smoking gun in it’s hand.
I personally think some people should drink more.
Garrett Breedlove: You’re just going to have to trust me about this one thing. You need a lot of drinks.
Aurora Greenway: To break the ice?
Garrett Breedlove: To kill the bug that you have up your ass.
I just went to an exhibit on Prohibition yesterday. The exhibit included a brief review of drinking habits in the U.S. prior to Prohibition. I don’t remember the exact figures, but basically people on average drank twice as much alcohol before Prohibition compared to people today. And it was more of everything–beer, hard cider, whiskey, gin, rum, and other high alcohol concoctions.
There wasn’t much obesity in those days. I know you can’t really draw any conclusions based on that fact, but it is interesting.
Hi Matt,
What do you suggest for improving bowel movements?
Around an year back, my bowels were excellent during refeeding period, with me pooping out one huge poop every single time. However, I blew up with lot of water retention and then into a habit of exercise early morning. However. I think the lack of sleep sort of threw my digestive system out of whack. I now suffer from reflux time to time. Bowels movements are terrible, unlike my glory days and I alternate between bit of constipation and bit of diarrhea. Never a clean passage like before.
I don’t restrict on food and generally eat a lot. My Temps are good. I am increasing my sleep and my stress has come down these days. Still wondering if I have any advice on rectifying my bowel movements and going back to days where I used to just pass one large nice poop everytime
I don’t know how this would fit into OMAD — or anything else, for that matter — but I just have to give these people props. It’s a 0.5K race for charity, complete with free pint of beer BEFORE the race, a coffee and donut stand at the halfway point (where you can also smoke), and a VIP pass that allows you to skip the running and just ride in a 1963 VW Bus. These are some peeps I’d like to know.
https://www.sbnation.com/lookit/2018/4/26/17285238/0-5-k-fun-run-rest-stop-smoking-beer
As a former Texan (DFW, Houston, and San Antonio), those are my kind of people, too. I’d totally go for the VIP pass and enjoy a doughnut (or, three) while riding in style.
Here’s another guy that’s up our alley. He ate sugar, saturated fat, drank alcohol, hardly exercised, and lost 30 pounds:
https://twitter.com/SeanBissell/status/453581058722631681
Here’s a good one featuring Robert Lustig:
https://twitter.com/SeanBissell/status/364419950250688512
Check some of his other photos, too.
Good stuff! Love the picture of Lustig.
Re: the 0.5K race — I don’t smoke anymore, and I’m not into donuts or coffee, but I’d do all those things (including the pre-run beer) if I were participating in that event. It’s easy to get overly serious about everything… I think it’s good to have events like this once in a while, to say “F*** it all”. You know, for balance.
Wondering if anyone here listens to Joe Rogan. He had a doctor on named Peter Attia. Joe Rogan unfortunately has had so many guests on suuporting low carb diets he is truly convinced this is the correct way of eating. At the very least he says whole food sources are better…Anyway they briefly discuss diets and metabolism during the show. Attia speaks about nutrient partitioning and says he used to consume massive amounts of calories when we was younger with no ill effect. He says as he got older his ability to handle carbs suffered. He mentioned having clients fast to to do “metabolic resetting” of some sort..He mentions a dude that was severely obese and fasted for 382 days (1965?). The man supposedly kept the weight off after 4 or 5 years but I havent looked into what happened after. I figure he mustve been eating very low calorie and had severely down regulated his metabolism in doing so…The Doctor does do lower carb sometimes now as well as intermittent fasting. His focus is longevity and what not, but it is a shame because he really sees how youth and faster metabolisms handle different macronutrient ratios. They also discuss the “afternoon nap carb effect” and Peter says he doesnt remember having energy flucuations when he was younger eating a lot, but now he feels much more focused not eating all day..I totally understand why it sounds so enticing. Keeping relatively lean, increased focus and energy stability yada yada. Why can’t more people/professionals/doctors see how it is all about context. I thought this would be nice to share. A Doctor that fasts and maybe keeps his carbs lower, but only because he sincerely feels better doing so but at the same time he acknowledges that SOMETHING happens(he speaks of hormones and something else that makes muscle for inclined to utilize energy) to people and they just do not operate the same. He was a super duper swimmer at one point too, consuming tons of,carbs for his training. Nice fella at first glance.
I’ve heard enough from Attia to last me the rest of my life.
He and Gary Taubes started the Nutrition Science Initiative (NuSI), years ago, but Pete quietly disappeared from the business.
These days, he’s into some boutique healthcare business where he works with private clients who have lots of money to burn. Last I saw, he was into wearing devices that monitor some biomarkers (blood glucose and/or insulin, if I remember correctly) 24 hours a day.
I recall Pete saying he got him M.D. degree, but never practiced medicine.
Here’s the 382-day fasting study, if you’re interested:
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2495396/
Okay…So he’s not a good dude? Rofl. He sounds sincere and smart but what does that mean these days? So many conflicting views on everything these days what a freakin mess! Super smart dudes disagree on things so what the flip do we know ahhhh. Thanks for the response.
Hey, Bob Dean Metal Dude:
Pete might be an okay guy. I’m not really sure. I have my own personal opinion, but it’s just that — an opinion. There’s no doubt he’s very intelligent. He’s a great speaker, too, and very charismatic.
(But, then again, so are many cult leaders! “Hi, I’m Jim Jones. You look thirsty. Would you like a tall, cold glass of Kool-Aid?” haha…)
Pete used to have a blog called The Eating Academy, but it looks like that information has been moved-over to https://peterattiamd.com, if you want to check-out his writing. A lot of it can get very technical.
While I mentioned I’d heard enough of him to last the rest of my life, that would also apply to Taubes, Lustig, Teicholz, and most other diet gurus.
Just an hour ago, I returned from Chipotle with a massive burrito bowl full of white rice, black beans, pinto beans, and mild salsa. My neighbor was outside talking to a friend of hers — a big, buff-looking guy. I chatted with them a bit and then made a comment about his arms and said something like “Man, you sure look fit. Obviously, you know a lot about diet and exercise.” (that was the set-up) “Maybe you can give me some dietary tips.” His response was “You gotta eat high-protein and low-carb.” In my thoughts, I rolled my eyes so hard, I was able to see my cerebellum. Outwardly, though, I responded “Oh, really? Go low on the carbs, huh? Thanks for the advice.” I said goodbye, came inside, and ate that giant, magnificent burrito bowl.
Thou shalt not avoid carbs. So it is written, so shall it be done. Ramen.
@Bob Dean: he filled his pocket with NUSI money and bought Porsches and Ferraris with them. He’s a con artist. NUSI has already failed twice. If he was honest he would have stopped preaching the Gospel of Low Carb, but it gets him $$$$$.
P.s. do you remember roughly where in the podcast he mentions the stuff about handling carbs better earlier in life? That’s pretty interesting coming from Attia.
“I recall Pete saying he got him M.D. degree, but never practiced medicine.”
Jeez…
Pete he got *HIS” M.D. degree…
I r a gud riter
Carl: I saw the ‘he got him M.D. degree’ as sarcastic, and not incorrect. Ha!
You’re my kind of person, AnnB! :)
I’m hoping Matt will make the high-fat/ketogenic hysteria the subject of a future blog post.
I just watched The Magic Pill documentary. That was pretty hilarious. There was a whole segment in the movie bashing Ancel Keys for cherry-picking data showing that low fat diets were awesome, then they proceeded to blab on with a cherry-picked presentation about how low-carb diets are the shizzy mcnizzy for every illness ever. Which, I agree they are. For about 6 months!
Thanks for mentioning “The Magic Pill.” I just added it to my Netflix streaming queue.
I’m always up for a documentary to tell me about the secret, hidden, ancient knowledge that BigPharma, BigAg, the FDA, the AMA, and the Illuminati are trying to keep from us! Because, you know, population control and stuff. Oh, I can’t forget Nibiru, FEMA Camps, HAARP, and the Georgia Guidestones.
I’m embarrassed to admit that I have knowledge of all this stuff, but it fits right in with my adventures in Paleo, Low-Carb, etc.
Several days ago, I ran across an article about Chef Pete Evans by angry blogger James Fell. I just realized that’s the same chef featured in “The Magic Pill.”
http://www.bodyforwife.com/paleo-chef-pete-evans-has-gone-to-the-dietary-derp-side
I’m just 15 minutes into “The Magic Pill” and the group of Aboriginal people are being taught that giving their children Coca Cola for breakfast isn’t a good idea. They are being counseled about the problems with “Carbs.”
I realize I should watch the rest of the show, before being too harsh, but considering Nora Gedgaudas was just featured, it seems pretty obvious where this is heading.
How about crowdfunding for a 180D documentary? I would be honored to make the first donation. Perhaps we could get John Cusack and Val Kilmer to participate?
@carl: a fellow connoisseur of conspiracies I see lol. I’ve realized that diets, cults and conspiracies are the all the same thing. People will make stuff up to explain the seemingly/currently unexplainable.
@Skeptic: haha — Indeed, I was a member of the Conspiracy Club, for sure. I still have my tinfoil hat, as proof! You make a great point about Diets, Cults and Conspiracies being the same thing. In fact, I might be able to tie-together all three. Just this morning, while watching Alex Jones, I looked-down at my gluten-free toast and saw an image of David Koresh.
I will say though, that I have been deeply saddened by the state of “conspiratorial thinking” in recent years. I do think much of the way the world operates is VERY conspiratorial, just due to the way financial power exerts control over governmental policy, education, research, public opinion, news, and beyond. I just spoke to a woman who was formerly married to someone very high up in the mafia over the weekend, and she revealed that the mafia actually determined pretty much everything as it pertained to building the Alaskan pipeline. These kind of conspiracies are 100% real and pervasive to all facets of society. But recently the “conspiracy business” has been so lucrative that there are people spreading complete absurdities trying to turn every little thing into an outrageous, far-fetched conspiracy. Maybe I’m being overly conspiratorial in my thinking, lol, but it seems so absurd as to almost be intentionally used to discredit real and absurd conspiracies alike. If you question anything these days you’re associated with Alex Jones, aliens, pedophile colonies on Mars, lizard people, and flat earthers. “Nutjobs” are giving smart people who question things a bad reputation!
@Matt: yeah it’s been suggested that higher ups intentionally use the conspiracy theorist label to silence people. If that’s true, then it’s definitely working for them.
I’ve also heard that most of flat Earth theorists are just internet trolls taht are just doing it for lols and to see how many people they can bamboozle.
He actually did a pretty heartfelt talk on TED about the contempt he FIRST felt for obese people with diabetes. https://www.ted.com/talks/peter_attia_what_if_we_re_wrong_about_diabetes
And then he realized his main demographic that he can sell to are the obese, so he had a change of heart lol. Awwwww
Hi Carl, :)
I am still semi-retired at least ( laughs) . Thank you for all your nice writings about me. I appreciate it and feel the same towards you. This is my March of 1995 “return from baseball’ LOL !!!!!!!!!
I just want to arm all of you with the information to take down James Fell, CarbSane, Guyenet and the like. It is truly a shame what happened with Guyenet. In 2010, he had reasonable interviews, he has turned into a ( willfully likley) real physics illiterate guy.
As mentioned before, “energy” is not anything itself…It has NO EXISTENCE in itself. It is a toally abstarct mathematical FICTION we humans made up, nothing more than a number we can compute- it is only for convenience and tidy bookkeeping, a very useful number in equations. The reason energy does not have to come from somewhere or cannot be destryoed is because it N-O-T
S-T-U-F-F AT ALL in the first place, as physcist Peter M. Brown noted at the Naked Scientist Forum. Mentining this ALWAYS , without fail gets me deleted and banned from all sites. Yet, physcists know this! These salesmen are abusing and misrepresenting physics.
The “laws” of physics are not at all restrictions upon the nature of matter. Nor are they EVER mandates from human
imposed upon Nature. Nature can do WHATEVER it wants! Rather, they are restrictions upon the way physcists can write their equations. These “laws” are not laws at all- they are principles- they are totally tentative and fallible ( as David Gross and Richard Feynman noted) – These “laws” are ONLY OUR BEST GUESSES, as Feynman worded it, that have been put through the sieve. The goal is to put them through smaller hoes and catch what laws are wrong. The observations are not the laws either, as Feynman said,.
Calories, joules, ergs, kilowatt hours, NO DIFFERENCE- NONE- ALL THE SAME. We have all these ABSURD numebrs of units, all INVENTIONS. We do not need ANY more inventions- Feynman HISMELF hated hop we have all these inventions to measure this number energy- USE ON COMMON UNIT. NOBODY eats calories . NOBODY eats kilowatt hours or inverse fermions…..
Calories, joules even energy itself are NOT ANY kind of entities whatsoever in Nature. NOR can energy or its units ever act on the human body. They are abstract fiction. “Spindly” ( abstract characteristic we assign to people) cannot convert, transform or morph into Dav e Chappelele. “Huge” cannot morph into Shaquille O’Neal.
Infrared radiuation is the HEAT, it is part of the elctromagnetic spectrum-actual STUFF that can ACT. We obviously are burned by the sun’s UV radiation- stuff.
Getting back to energy and its absurd amounts of units. WE HAVE FARRRRRRR TOO MANY INVENTIONS ( Yes , calories are an INVENTION just like inverse fermions) Neither calories nor inverse fermions actually exist. We do not need ANY more inventions!
Kilowatt hour rich food. It;s that inverse fermion rich food!!!@! LOL !!!!!!!!\\Yep , the cause of obesity is “kilowatt hours”! The calorie MORONS are RIDICULOUSLY DUMB, See how rodiculous that is??????? LOL !!!!!! NO DIFFERENCE in saying calorie rich versus saying erg rich or joule rich or inverse fermion rich. RICH WITH W-H-A-T EXACTLY?????? WHAT???????!!!!! WHAT STUFF???? Energy as we know from physicists is NOT stuff AT ALL. NOT AT ALL. If I could stress one thing only, it would be energy is NOT AT ALL stuff. In ANY way whatsoever. It is strictly totally abstarct mathematical fiction A NUMBER. Energy has many misconeptions behind it, so much misunderstanding- so many layman canot grasp it. Energy does NOT make things move or go , as Feynman said. What people really mean is FUEL- matter-
Nail James Fell et al ot the wall! Demand they tell you rich with WHAT EXACTLY? WHAT STUFF, WHAT ACTUAL STYUFF are we talkign about. ONLY STUFF can EVER ACT. ENERGY CANNOT AND DOES NOT EVER ACT ON CELLS. It is an abstarct charcteristic a bookeeping devcie only!
What entitiy in nature is this food rich with exactly ?
Energy is nothign but a fiction we use, it is a number only. Matter is actual entity, stuff. Radiation is entity too, but nrt matter. Light is STUFF. NOT energy. Lyle mcDonald et all CONFUSE energy with forces, they also confuise energy with radiation or light. NONE of those examples are “energy.” One cannot at all make an “energy beam.” Nor can one ever, ever damage cells with “energy.” It is not, itself…. ANYTHING…..
Don’t ever let these peopel off the hook, especially in their arrogant condescending supremely ignorant , physcis illiterate articles. Just if I could request you guys tell them it is from me. I do not seek fame, nor do I , nor have I ever sold anything. I just want to be a super thorn in their butt hungry for the TRUTH AND HOENSTLY SCIENCE INREGRITY. PEROPER represenation of phsyics and acknowledging obesity is NOT a physuics issue. it is BIOCHEMCIAL, GENETIC, ENDOCRINE , NEURO. The calorie model fools continually delete me on forums . This message totally exposes the calorie model . This calorie model ( you could easily call it the inverse fermion model or erg model etc. RIDICULOUS!!!!! does NOT point to ANY causality nor is it even remotely abn accurate despcription nor even remotely and explanation for what is actually occuiring. The calorie model is WRONG and these fools need to get over it.
Unlike energy or claories, hormojnes are STUFF- Food is stiff too- food can act ,water can act- thsoe hydrogen/oxygen atoms ( but water is easily excreted in healthy people) calories CANNOT- AT ALL. EVER. They do not even actually exist.
P.S. James Fell and Lyle McDonald ocassionally engaged in naked hijinx with pre-hypertensive Canadian eunuchs, whilst CarbSane passionately serenated Gary Taubes with “All I want To Do Is Make Love To You” by Heart. ROTFLOL!!!!!!!
Thanks, guys,
Razz
Yeah we’ve all heard these “the map is not the territory” kinds of arguments. Point still stands that if you overfeed animals or people they gain weight, and if you starve them they lose weight. It’s irrelevant if you measure the food in calories or electrons or whatever. Your body fights any weight change, so this complicates things, but that doesn’t disprove CICO. At the end of the day, the theories don’t matter, people need solutions.
Electrons are MATTER, STUFF. Energy and calories are not anything but inventions, numbers.
There are dramatic differences in responses to overeating. Some gain next to nothing as far as fat. Linda Bacon went over this in detail. Tbere are nunerous people who gained fat with no change whatsoevervin eating or activitu. Calorie model is wrong. It fsils at the most extreme test pissubke-severe obesitybobserved in destitute abject poverty. The end.
This tgermodynamic argument by Lyke et al is BULLSHIT. I have personally talked to WORLD CLASS tgermodynamics experts. They agree with mr 100%. The sin of tge calorie model is that it posists a closed dystem where NONE EXISTS.
Sure, eating is relevant to most, but naturally sjinny peopke are damn near impossibke to fstten as Friedman notes. Further, those with single gene defects becime obese on what a skinny elderly kady wolkd eat….
Obesity is NOT a simple overeating. Urgelt notes this. Urgie is tgecsmartest person I have ever seen , layman etc. Lyle and Guyenet are nowhere near his intellect.
Calories in/calories out with without question WRONG, laughably wrong and it is not even remotely ANY kind of acvurate descriptiin of what is occuringl ATOMS myst be EXCRETED, physically removed Nor is caliries in /cakories out even remotely ANY EXPLANATION to what is occurung. Feynman was very clear that ebergy is NEVER, EVER, EVET, EVER an explanation for any phenomenin. Obedity remains a very poorly understood phenomenin. Look into URGELT’S obedity video on YouTube. That man has BRAINS.
Tge calirie model is onky promoted by those with SALES AGENDAS ususlly the fitness industry.
“Weight” by the wsy is a FORCE, it has nothing to do with hody composition. Weight is location specific, medium dependent.
Arguing that CICO isn’t real is not the same as providing solutions. Fine, CICO isn’t real. Now what?
We need solutions. Friedman and O’Shea are working hard, making progress. Unfortunately, currently no good solutions exist. All we can do is what all people should do, eat lots and lots of variety, honor hunger and fullness signals, exercise moderstely, not fight our bodies. As far as that treating obesity, it won’t. As Urgelt keenly notes, obesity is a genuine disease of fst cell dysregulation. The chemical behavior of fat cell receptors is extremely poorly understood to nill.
Professor Razwell! What a nice surprise!
I was away from the blog, at the time you wrote your final comment on the previous article. By the time I saw it and replied, it was too late.
Or, so I thought!
It’s great to see you again! Thanks for your kind words. Of course, I feel the same in return. I always enjoy reading your unique perspective and your uncommon wisdom on all matters. I’m glad you’re only SEMI-retired! haha
I hope you are doing well, in all aspects of life!
Now, let me get to your new comments!
Thanks, Carl. It’s great to see you again, buddy. : )
Here is Richard Feynman talking about the electromagnetic spectrum and infrared radiation- the heat we feel, the STUFF.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FjHJ7FmV0M4
Guyenet/Fell/Colpo/CarbSane/McDonald et al ERRONROUSLY confuse energy with forces , also with some nebulous intangible, invisble critter, nebulous stuff , like radio waves- Radiowavres are NOT energy ( nor are they matter) but they ARE which are stuff.
NO, NO AND NO!!!! Such is NOT the case for energy, it is ONLY A NUMBER. Totally abstarct but useful mathematical fiction. ‘
Fell et al are simply NOT SMART ENOUGH to grasp the topic of energy. They are PREYING ON “green” people – their readers. For farrrr too long, these charlatans have abused, misused and misrepresented energy and calories- there is NOTHING AT ALL special about calories, nor intrinsic to food – they could be tossed tomorrow as a Nobel physcist told me in favor of , say, joules..
Food is matter. Atoms are MATTER. WE HUMANS made up and assign energy ( we invenetd alllll these neeedless numbers of units- it really is disgraceful as Feynman stressed) to them- the amount depemnds upon ther observer. Atoms jiggling soooo fast, we say, have “lots of energy” DUE to motion.Atoms jiggling fast enough will emit light.( part of electromagnetic radiation spectrum)
“Without electromagnetism, mater would dissolve ” as a top physicist once told me.
Many obese people are NOT overeating at all. Those with specific single gene defects will become sverely obese IRRESPECTIVE OF eating amount ( as Dr. Friedman noted in articles) – ingested food amount etc. perhaps, those with less food will be modeslty less obese but BOTH situations will have svere obesity manifest.
Fat tissue really does act like a TUMOR in the suepr obese- it lives for itself. Taubes noted this is what 1030’s era scientists nmoted from Austria etc. They were right! Vertical growth is never discussed. A guy from Mozambique held the world heigt record ( 8 foot something) in 1990- that is a super poor nation and he obviously was not eating much,. Numerous severely huge tumors happen in poor areas where people do not east much,.
The calorie model is just plain wrong, Taubes has a strong case. I am not even talking about insulin here just that the calorie model is wrong. The hardest working walker I ever saw is an elderly obese Indian immigrant lady in my neioghborhood. She walks so many days for 2 hours and has not lost a shred of fat in over 5 years. ( She is out there in storms- snow- rain- etc.
Repeatedly you are correct Razwell. We don’t eat the mythical calories, we eat nutrients that create hormones and make hormones, etc. function. Introduce this lady to Zero Carb Health website. It’s the unavailable nutrition in plants that are the issue with obesity. Eating fat meat and water will not make her fat and will allow her body to use the fat storage she already has….stopping more insulin production over time. Insulin is the storage hormone for carbohydrates (famine foods) eaten. Yeah, I know Matt warned me my metabolism would tank…and I believe it was Carl who who insinuate I was a troll, but it hasn’t and I’m not. And without the tease of plant carbs I have NOOOOO cravings to eat plant carbs refined or not. The beef I am eating from the animal we butchered (we raise cattle) always tastes good. The last bit (actually considerable) edema is gone, slimming down quickly in size even if the scales only say 18-20 lbs down. Total confidence unlike I’ve ever experienced eating low carb. I started at 230+ and now 216 (29 days) since May 18, 2018. Gave away all the size 22/24 clothes the other day. Next month or two the size 20 will be out the door and on to bin for the size 18 clothes…and then the 16, then the 14 and then the 12. Then I’ll be buying (even if only from the thrift store) all the cute size 10s and then 8s. I’ll be keeping you all updated as I progress to my body’s goal of 130-140…140 with muscle. Matt, your books are leaving the house next….to help someone else get their mind and life normalized even with SAD…with a teeny note inside to consider zero plant food/meat and water diet eventually.
Hi, AnnB:
I try to be polite and respectful in my posts, so I searched back through the comments and I think I found the post to which you referred. It was another user that suggested you might be a troll.
However, if there is another post in which I made some insulting insinuation, then I sincerely apologize.
There are enough other websites (especially YouTube) where people tear-apart each other, because they are anonymous. One of the things I like about this site is that, much more than other sites, people are generally well-behaved.
Anyway, I offer that clarification, because I wouldn’t want anything to get in the way of our continuing to exchange ideas.
In addition to reading your posts with great interest, I’ve read the story of Charlene Andersen on the MeatHeals.com site and it’s fascinating. This is the 20th year that she (and, I think, her husband Joe) has been eating only ribeye steaks and water.
After years of failed attempts to find a universal diet that works for everyone, I finally understand that different things work for different people. Sadly, the Magical Dietary Unicorn doesn’t seem to exist. I’d hope to ensnare it with my licorice lasso, mount that steed with my saddle made of Skittles, and ride it thundering across the great prairie of pancakes.
Alas, it was not meant to be.
Instead, I see people in various diet camps that report success with their particular eating plan: Keto, Low-Carb, High-Carb, Vegan, Raw Vegan, Fruitarian, etc.
Then, once again, I get frustrated and vow to stop reading all this stuff and just eat what I want. I kept/keep hoping that someone would finally discover “THE” truth. The Unicorn thing again.
Anyway, I congratulate you on your weight loss, body recomposition (the scale is meaningless, in this regard), losing the edema, and your soaring confidence and optimism. That all has to feel pretty amazing.
Currently, I have a bit more body fat that I’d like, but it’s maybe only 10 lbs. – maybe 15 lbs., at most. So, all things considered, I’m not complaining about it.
Before I got sick, five years ago, I was eating low-carb, exercising like a maniac, and still had about the same amount of extra body fat. Now, five years later, as I continue dealing with the health issues, I’ve not exercised AT ALL during this period, have eaten plenty of carbs (including some, but not tons, of the ‘junk’ and processed carbs), had significant muscle atrophy, and STILL have the same extra body fat.
At this point, I’m not that frustrated about it. Really, I’m more curious. Some have suggested that my body is hanging-on to that fat, because it’s storing some of the various toxicants that seem to be indicated from some lab testing. Given my history of exposures, that seems a plausible answer. Though, who really knows?
Going forward, I hope you will keep posting on Matt’s blog and let us know how you’re doing. I definitely would like to know how things are going and I’m sure I’m not the only one.
One last thing.
This is something I wondered about Charlene, too. In looking at the nutrition data for a single ribeye steak, it has, among other things, the following:
Amount: 1 steak (291 g)
Calories: 847
– Total Fat 63 g (96%)
– Saturated Fat: 28 g (140%)
– Polyunsaturated Fat: 3 g
– Monounsaturated Fat: 31 g
– Trans Fat: 4.3 g
– Cholesterol: 233 mg (77%)
– Sodium 157 mg (6%)
– Potassium 757 mg (21%)
– Total Carbohydrate 0 g (0%)
– Dietary Fiber 0 g (0%)
– Sugar 0 g
– Protein 69 g (138%)
– Vitamin A: 1%
– Calcium: 3%
– Vitamin D: 5%
– Vitamin B-12: 101%
– Vitamin C: 0%
– Iron: 36%
– Vitamin B-6: 70%
– Magnesium: 16%
Q: Are you not concerned about the lack of certain vitamins and minerals?
Q: How about the absence of fiber to feed gut bacteria?
Q: Are you not concerned about the high protein? (IGF-1)
Q: What about the various phytochemical and antioxidants that we would otherwise get from vegetables and fruit?
Given the obvious time and attention you’ve put into this pursuit, I’d appreciate if you’d help satisfy my curiosity. The MeatHeals.com site didn’t make mention of any lab testing. And, though I’ve not listened to it myself, I’ve read that some of Shawn Baker’s labs didn’t look so good.
I figured that one might develop an iodine deficiency on just meat, but was surprised to find that beef contains 11-14 mcg per 75 g. So, the hypothetical steak mentioned above would contain up to 54 mcg per steak.
So, to meet the minimum daily value (150 mcg) for iodine, that would mean:
– 2.76 steaks/day for most people. That’s about 2,337 calories.
– 5.34 steaks/day for breastfeeding women. That’s about 4,523 calories.
[ All these numbers are approximations, of course, based on high-level data. Not to mention that ‘Calories’ don’t really exist! :) Go Razwell! ]
I could probably eat a steak a day for a few days, but I know (from experience) I would tire of it quickly. So, it would be difficult for me to choke-down the 2.76 steaks required to avoid a slow descent into iodine deficiency.
One could use supplements, I suppose, though I’ve personally become cautious of supplements, as they cannot always be the same thing that’s in food. Perhaps a few are, but multi-vitamins are suspect.
Anyway, again, I would love to get your feedback on some of these points!
Best wishes,
Carl
The body doesn’t need fiber to make poop. This one is easy…do you know any babies who nurse/formula fed (although more formed than breast milk) who don’t poop? Adults don’t need fiber either. In the past I’ve been unwell enough to prefer only milk and still made poop. Also ill enough to not eat at all for days and still made poop.
Vitamin C is not the only anti-scorbutic in a meat only diet. Otherwise, all exclusively carnivorous animals would be deficient. Read paragraph 3 https://zerocarbzen.com/vitamin-c/
I only eat to satiety, so excessive protein is not a concern. I’m certain other carnivores aren’t sitting around discussing if they are eating too much zebra. Meat you like to eat has fat in the correct ratio without adding extra fat.
Calories aren’t part of anyone’s diet equation…nutrients are what we eat from fat, protein and carbohydrates (trace in meats).
The nutrients in plants (carbohydrates) is not readily available to carnivores who do not have the digestive system of ruminants or other animals designed to thrive on their plant carb diet.
Without the carbohydrates to stress my body and make it work overtime to process, digest, break down and eliminate/neutralize as much as possible the natural (don’t eat me) poisons, there is less need for many vitamins and minerals than what is commonly a RDA.
I no longer need thyroid. Need less Vitamin D3 and magnesium….my former staple supplements.
We’ve all heard how white sugar contains no nutrients and robs us of vitamins and minerals…I believe the whole vegetable/fruit/grain/nuts has that same quality…as a robber of nutrients. I’m OK not knowing the researched science.
Eating to satiety a meat+water diet is self-limiting. We naturally eat less and less often because we are not hungry.
Plant foods are incomplete, hence incomplete nutrition will always make a body seek more in hopes the next meal will be complete. Carbohydrates are not filling/satisfying no matter how much fiber they contain to extend the stomach and intestines to make one ‘feel’ full as they scrape through the body causing injury all along the way….in addition to all the methane produced.
No carbs, no bacteria creating (painful or not) gasses = no farting. Let me repeat = no farting.
I don’t feel full after eating my fill, I feel done/satisfied I’ve had enough. Not being able to eat another bite is not from volume, but nutrient satiety.
I have yet to tire of eating beef steaks cooked to medium rare under the broiler or pan fried. Although pan fried can more easily overcook it. Cold cut up leftovers the next day seem to taste even better.
I am looking forward to our next butchering from a different butcher. We don’t know what the last one did, but the ground beef tasted like nasty sweaty socks (fed to the barn cats) and the other beef cuts haven’t been so tasty either, but I’m eat it.
Maybe it wasn’t our beef? We prefer our beef cooled and cut in a few days, not after a week or two. Later than a few days and it’s rotten flavored. How anyone ever developed a taste for rot is beyond me. And it’s like we are asking the butcher to pull his own teeth out to process our beef this quickly. The two animals we had processed (three families) took a long time until it was ready…so either not ours or was rotted and lost all flavor.
You can read all three of these books in free download pdf. See links in public forum Zeroing In On Health FB group files. Strong Medicine by Blake Donaldson. The Fat of the Land by Steffanson. Or Google search for them and this third one Eat Fat and Grow Slim by MacKarness.
Researchers in the time of those books and the year long meat diet study have already answered the questions of fiber, Vitamin C, etc.
Enjoy the Files and various Docs and PDFs. If you have to join to see them, answer the questions and just read for several weeks and do word searches of the group posts to have many of your questions answered without having to ask a question that’s been asked/answered dozens of times over the 8 years of the group.
And yes, I searched and found it wasn’t you who used the word troll…and it doesn’t matter who did. I’m not holding any animosity toward anyone. I’m just happy the topic of carnivore came up and I now eat simply and with satiety in all ways.
Gotta go broil that steak and then I’ll sit down and watch the latest Transformer movie on EPIX…Dish free preview weekend….recording now.
Indeed, I realize the body doesn’t need fiber to make poop. That wasn’t anything I wrote. Instead, I asked about fiber to feed our microbiome.
As for Vitamin C, most animals make their own. Humans and few other do not. It’s believed that we once did, but, due to getting a lot of it in our diets, we lost the ability to make in endogenously.
Thanks for the Vitamin C link. You noted paragraph three:
“There appears to be an alternative biochemical pathway for preventing scurvy that occurs when one is eating a fat-burning ketogenic diet, as opposed to a sugar-burning glucogenic diet. While the mechanism of action is not entirely clear, it is considered to be an established fact. Dr. Stephen Phinney has speculated that the blood ketone beta-hydroxybutyrate may itself be the anti-scorbutic factor.”
They think something exists, they don’t know how it works, but it’s considered to be “an established fact.” That’s an interesting comment.
It seems your position — or, maybe those whom you are following — that humans are carnivores and not omnivores.
It would seem, based on factors like how our jaws move; the structure of the teeth; the size, shape, and pH of the stomach; as well as the length of our digestive tract (mouth-to-anus), that we’re much more like primates than actual carnivores like lions or wolves.
Anyway, based on what/how your reply was written, I want to clarify that I was only asking questions out of sincere curiosity. It wasn’t my intention to challenge you in any sort of negative way.
Honestly, if I thought I could eat only meat and water, while restrictive in the sense of diversity, it would be liberating in a way, as I would no longer have to spend so much time trying to figure-out what to eat. I think that’s why the low-carb appealed to me, back from 2009-2013, because I had a short list of foods from which to choose. Once I started eating all the “bad” foods again (grains, legumes, fruits, etc.), I then had more things from which to choose. For me, too much choice is a bad thing.
Truly, I wish you luck.
Admittedly, I’m skeptical. You’re speaking with what appears to be a lot of conviction and certainty, with only 29 days of history. It reminds me of myself, when I started a low-carb diet. I see it with others switching to Paleo, Vegan, etc. I hope those convictions and that certainty are your own and earned through due diligence, rather than simply adopting what others suggest.
Thinking of this from a historical perspective, it’s unlikely that our ancestors would have had access to meat on a daily basis year-after-year.
But, that was then and this is now, so maybe it will work for you. And, by “work,” I mean that in the broadest possible manner (cardiovascular health, mental health, neurological health, immune health, restorative sleep, good digestion, and on and on), not something as myopic as body weight.
So, while I’m skeptical, I’m also intrigued. So, again, I do hope you will keep us updated, over time. While I have no immediate plans to follow a meat-only diet (more due to the lack of variety), I will look more into the materials to which you referenced. Even if I don’t follow that plan currently, I do find it interesting and would like to know more.
If you’re open to sharing, I’d be curious to know:
– Your age, generally-speaking. (e.g. early 20s, mid-30s, etc.)
– How long your body fat has been higher than you would like?
Obviously, you’re under no obligation to answer either. I’m just curious whether you’re younger, middle-aged, or older — and how many years you’ve invested in seeking solutions.
Take care and enjoy your movie and broiled steak!
I wanted to link to Victor Stenger and Peter M. Brown. The “laws” of physics are NOT restrictions upon the behavior of matter. Rather, they are restrictions upon how physicists can write their mathematical equations.. Visitn aliens MAY and likely do have DIFFERENT models of the unievrse, their own laws etc. Many medical doctors do not get this! There is far too much stuffiness and over glorification of science in the Blogopshere – CarbSane.There is SO much we cannot do- cannot cure hardly any diseases, cannot travel to our nearest star ( not even the sun etc.) we do NOT know orfin of life, NOR orgin of universe as WENBERG states. ( No, the “Big Bang” is not the start of it all like popularizers have said) It was actually an expansion we think and we know virtualyl NOTHING about it. it could haev bee the end of another universe or the start of a pocket universe, not evberything. As Guth noted, there could have been many, many, many Big Expansions over and over again.
I will have a field day with the lower overrated “intellects” such as McDonald, Guyenet, Colpo, CarbSane- Dr. Thorne is world class and he talks about laws here:
They appear to be like nested Russian Dolls. Today we know General Relativity is NOT really the case- just an approximation at very best- farrrr deeper laws or principles underpin it. :Keep in mind how many tests GR has passed and it STILL IS NOT really the case as Dr. Thorne notes- JUST approximation, not accurate:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rHsBDTy3yEE
GR and the Standard Model is MORE fundamental than “themrodynamics as Weinberg noted.
Einstein, himself ,said, we will NEVER see the body of the lion, just it’s tail etc.- I think we only see the scruft on the tail not even the full tail, actually . Einy thought we will NEVER see the INSIDE of the watch etc. I really think consciousness will forever evade humans, many top phsycists today think so.We humans are PART of what we are studying. physcis is what we HUMANS say , NOT what Nature says- said neils Biohr.There are topic that we are not smart enough to handle I truly believe.WEe have our limits. I really wonder as Pentagon officials have noted- have we ben visited. There were some aircraft doing moves which were thought not possible, yet pilots have video of objects doing this. IF, IF we are/were visited by aliens what THEY HAVE is farrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr superior to our science- a human onvention.
We cannot assume math ( our invention) is instrinsic to the universe- there is no reason it should be. As Brian Grenene notes.
Greene explains here and takes HOKEY popularizer, Neil Tyson ,to task:
https:/www.youtube.com/watch?v=bBfkAuenQJo
I really dislike the popularizers such as Sagan and Tyson. I DO like Greene, Weinberg etc.- truly great physcists.
By the way- we should ALL mention to Lyle McDonald we ALREADY live in a universe where energy is NOT conserved.
In the case of the rapidly explanding universe, this NUMBER we call energy is NOT- NOT conserved. Energy is ONLY cobnserved LOCALLY under time translational invariance. It is NOT some fiat or rule. There are reasons for what we think. Peopel like GUyenet seem to think the laws of physcis are some rules imposed upon the universe.No, thery are HUMANS’ BEST GUESSES. ALL theories and laws are INVENTED. Observations , we discover these phenomenon , we then model and make and INVENT theories.Einy and Newton INVENETD their theories of gravity. What we will have in 1,000 years from now will make current science seen very, very primitive said Freeman Dyson on video.
However, – protons and electrons, quarks etc. and radiation are all stuff- we either infered or observed them. Int he case of stars, they are so far away we MUSTY make inferences. Energy and its units are inventions in the full sense of the word- toally made up units
Queen Candy,
We did something similar, but used ice cream. It took 2 months of them having ice cream for every meal before they slowed down. Doing this, along with mixed candy, got rid of my oldest son’s eczema for good. They now self regulate. Please, don’t give up.
Matt I need some help. I’ve been purposely leaving a dish of three different candies (gum drops, jelly beans, fruit snacks) out on the table all day for my kids for the past two and a half days. So far my older son, 4 years old, is still eating quite a bit of candy and not a whole lot of other foods. My two-year-old seems to have slowed down a bit on the candy and is eating other foods but not too diverse. It seems to be wanting a lot of toast with butter lately. I cringed as my four-year-old stuffed his face full of candy for breakfast this morning. I feel like this experiment is not working. I feel like a horrible mother for letting my kids do this. But I don’t want to give up. I guess I keep remembering your girlfriend’s daughter who is able to balance herself with candy and juice and real foods. I want them to be like that. Is there anything else that you would recommend that I do with the candy bowl? I do have other Foods displayed on the table as well. They seem to be eating a lot more of the fruit snacks than the other 2 candies.
It hasn’t been very long.
But if you get to the point where you want to up the ante, you can take it to the next level by forbidding them to eat anything else. That will solve that problem really quickly! Although it is a little cruel, lol.
Relax Zack. I’m doing this because I’m sick of them always asking for candy, looking for candy in my food cabinets and always being focused on candy at gatherings rather than having fun and playing with the kids. My two-year-old weaned himself a year ago and has been eating decent food since then. He is the one who seems to be eating less candy than my 4 yr old. I’m surprised because I already did this experiment on my four year olds 2 other times. I decided to let them have it after meals bc I noticed that they are grazing all day and not eating meals.
A 4 and 2 year old???? Youre their parent, make them eat! Jesus woman, 4 and 2 year olds and you have resigned to letting them walk all over you. Sorry if that’s harsh but that’s crazy to me. You let them eat all the candy they want at such an early age and that’s all they will will remember, that they deserve candy instead of real food. I don’t know the background to this but they should have just come off the tit eating decent stuff and it wouldn’t be an issue.
Hey Zach,
Making someone do something decreases intrinsic motivation to do whatever you are forcing them to do. People resent what they are forced to do. If they are forced to eat “healthy” food and not allowed to eat “junk” food, they will associate healthy food with drudgery and junk food with pleasure. We’re complex psychological/emotional beings. The ultimate solution is to get kids to want healthy food and not want junk food. That’s what she’s trying to make strides towards. It has nothing to do with some outdated dictatorial approach to parenting.
I disagree. This isn’t about making the kid sit at the table until his plate is clean or eating Broccoli till he pukes. Young kids need someone to guide them and teach them right from wrong. Throwing up your hands and letting them do whatever they want in hopes they learn their own lesson sounds like it could backfire big time. I think I remember that when you did this experiment, your step daughter was 7 or so? A 4 and 2 year old are not capable of such epiphanies. Now if you tried that experiment that was documented about letting them sit down and pick out their own foods between meat/dairy/fruit/bread/cooked veg etc at every meal, they might inuitivelly start going towards more nutrient dense stuff. Either way it’s all real food. A two year old having jelly beans for meals is just a good way to ruin his palette, teeth and give him some gut issues.
I agree with Matt. My 3 year old can and will, at times, choose fruit or veggies over cookies and candy. He loves carrots, tomatoes, and onions. Carrots are his favorite. There are times when he eats candy, cookies and donuts, but he will choose a carrots over most other foods. He also likes pizza, rolls and pastas. He also likes mushrooms and other veggies with cheese and an organic ranch dressing we get with it. He eats it like a salad without the lettuce. That is still too difficult for him to eat. We had our children eat as much ice cream as they want and try to get a big bag of candy a week. Sometimes, they can go 2 weeks or longer without the candy if they get plenty of other carbs like bread, pasta, fruit and veggies. He can tell what he wants and he is just 3 years old. So, I totally agree with Matt on this because I have witnessed it with my own eyes. They do self regulate. I believe a child has the capability of self regulating better than adults because they do not have the many years of programming to reprogram. They are born with self regulation, most of the time. They know when they are hungry and know when they are full. When they get to the food stage, we start telling them what their body needs instead of letting the child tell us what they need. They need more energy because they are constantly growing, either physically or mentally, so they need more carbs and sugar than most people think they do. The first foods, other than rice cereal, we give them are veggies and meat. Well, if they were born with low metabolisms, they will need different food. At that age, though, they can’t tell you. So, an unknowing adult will feed “healthy” foods and which do not do any good for a low metabolism.
@Zach: intuitive eating and listening to the “wisdom” of the body are both bullshit. A body that becomes morbidly obese and fights to stay that way is an idiot, not wise.
Those kids in that one, unreplicated experiment: if we also added to their table all American classics like McDonalds, Pop tarts, Mac and cheese and so on, do you think they would even look at the lettuce and the salmon before lunging at the Big Mac?
The body isn’t wise. Hunger satiety can be fooled by alcohol, cigarettes, caffeine, stress to name a few. After that, the body only knows how to seek calories, nothing else. Sugar or fat. The higher the calories the better. Put them together–salt, sugar, fat–and you will gorge by instinct. That’s the extent of your body’s “wisdom”.
No body wants to be obese. It’s a coping mexhanism to a toxic environment
Science has surpassed our natural intuition, that doesn’t make our bodies stupid.
And who says Mac and cheese and burgers are unhealthy, make em yourself and they are ‘super foods? nutritionally and calorically dense. Eating fat and sugar together will not cause metabolic syndrome on their own.
Humans are stupid, our bodies natural intuition is not.
Not everyone actually does gorge instinctively, or becomes fat from eating a lot of pleasurable foods. Gorging and binge eating are behaviors that happen almost exclusively when palatable foods are being restricted. Avoiding foods can heighten the desire to eat those foods. That’s why avoiding certain foods is usually a fattening strategy long-term.
I discussed this briefly in an interview with Stephen Guyenet years ago. I was surprised that he had very little to say about the heightened compulsion to binge on hyperpalatable foods in response to restriction. Or, the enhanced self-regulation and resulting calorie balance that can occur when dietary restriction is removed.
The main reason I’ve advocated the general idea of intuitive eating is that I find it’s a better strategy for the majority of average, everyday people. Normal, highly-social, fairly weak-willed people living in the modern world tend to fail miserably with dietary restriction. And certainly a better solution for the disordered eaters who have found their way here.
Sure, living out in the jungle and eating a whole foods diet like Freelee might be a hypothetical ideal diet and lifestyle. But it’s purely hypothetical. 99.9% of people in the world aren’t going to do that, so they are in need of helpful, more realistic and convenient solutions (even if they aren’t the “optimal” solutions).
Know what I mean?
Well stated, Matt.
I wish the hell eating with abandon was as easy as I found restrictive eating to (eventually) be. It seems completely bass-ackwards.
Thanks, all you popular diet authors. You fuckers.
I’m not even worried about the weight gain, it’s more a concern about any potential health consequences, despite knowing that eating restrictively is causing its own problems.
Last night, I started listening to “Diet Recovery 2” again. Once I’m done with it, I’ll probably listen to “Solving the Paleo Equation: Stress, Nutrition, Exercise, Sleep” again, too. I’m grateful for both. (Plus, the other eight books, too. Me love you long time, G.I.)
The problem here is that “intuitive eating” conjures an image of like a super advanced A.I. in your mind that constantly monitors your environment and can make decisions based on what’s best for you.
In reality it’s less HAL 9000 from Space Odyssey and more like a cheap wristwatch you buy from the dollar store. It tracks one or two things like blood sugar and leptin, and when it detects calorie dense food it tells you to eat up. That’s it.
And it’s not even good at it’s job. If you’re obese, you’re likely insulin and leptin resistant, so the readings it’s taking are not even accurate! Not to mention the other stuff I brought up like stress, alcohol, caffeine, nicotine, meds, etc. That also mess with the readings.
As for hyper palatable foods, that’s a whole other mess. One of my fav books is one you suggested: Salt, Sugar, Fat. In it you see there’s armies of PhD s studying this stuff like it’s the cure for cancer. They’re not just using salt, sugar and fat combos but they’re changing the shape of their molecules to help them diffuse on the tongue better! These are supranormal stimuli that your brain can’t handle.
I get what you’re saying: restricting foods makes things much, much worse, but I’m saying things are already bad without that. I’ve been refeeding for four years and I still binge. If I feel satisfied by pizza, I’ll just change up the texture, say to ice cream, and book, I can binge a 1000 more calories, plus liquid calories that the brain can’t even read. It’s the buffet effect, the binge eater partner in crime. The brain can’t and won’t put a stop to this “intuitively”. It’s helpless.
“The problem here is that ‘intuitive eating’ conjures an image of like a super advanced A.I. in your mind that constantly monitors your environment and can make decisions based on what’s best for you.
In reality it’s less HAL 9000 from Space Odyssey and more like a cheap wristwatch you buy from the dollar store. It tracks one or two things like blood sugar and leptin, and when it detects calorie dense food it tells you to eat up. That’s it.”
I really enjoyed that, Skeptic! [The entire post, not just the above quote.]
I’ve long debated — in my own head — whether I should indulge in foods/food-like-items that “taste good,” because my taste buds have been perverted/hijacked by food scientists doing exactly what you noted.
Also, if my G.I. tract is bombarded with all sorts of “unnatural” chemical compounds (at a molecular level, though, is anything unnatural?), does that alter the flora, and, in turn, cause me to desire more/different food stimuli? I know there’s more to things than just the gut bacteria, though it’s en vogue at the moment.
What if we bombarded our guts with anti-biotics (whether pharmaceutical or otherwise)? Could we wipe-clean the slate and start-over? I know that fecal transplants aim to accomplish something similar.
Are things truly hopeless?
If so, then knowing it would be liberating! Then, I could just eat whatever I wanted and just realize I’m not really steering this ship. I would sell my few possessions, buy an old, affordable RV, and travel from doughnut shop to pizza parlor to ice cream shop across this great land and document my expanding waistline on Instagram. And, in doing so, probably make a fortune.
Okay, some of that was just for comedic effect.
Really, I don’t crave ALL of that stuff. I recently bought two doughnuts, from a local shop, that makes them to order from really good ingredients. They were definitely good, but I didn’t want more.
Maybe if I kept eating them, beyond desire, I would develop more of a craving for them. I suspect this *would* be the case, due to my tendency to obsess/restrict/intellectually interfere with my food choices. Maybe, due to the aforementioned gut bacteria theory, I would manufacture the desire.
Or, I would just keep banging those “pleasure centers” in the brain that some health gurus frequently cite. “Sugar lights-up the same reward centers in the brain that cocaine does!” But, what they don’t say is, according to what I’ve read, so does masturbation and so does petting a puppy. And, I’m not stopping either — especially masturbation! (“Hey, don’t knock masturbation. It’s sex with someone I love.” –Woody Allen from ‘Annie Hall’)
In the end, though, I really have no idea. I sure do love the taste of pizza, though — especially from a local shop that uses really fresh, quality ingredients. But, after three slices (which is half of the pizza), I’m good. I can often eat the other three slices, before bed, if I have enough time, but my sleep will often suffer (more than it already does, for non-food-related issues) due to heartburn/reflux.
Are the only choices to:
1. Eat highly-palatable foods and possibly have a shortened life plagued with health issues, or
2. Eat lots of broccoli, kale, lean/fatty animal products (take your pick, if one eats animal products), green smoothies, beans, potatoes, and other quintessentially “healthy” foods and possibly live a longer[*] life that often feels like it’s being restricted/deprived, due to ignoring our perverted taste buds?
[*Maybe it wouldn’t actually be longer, but might sure feel like it.]
Can we ever find the right balance?
Thanks Carl. I don’t have any answers so far. Here’s where I’m at. CICO is correct, but Matt is also correct. Stalemate. Now I’m thinking: how do we get past this? If the body fights restriction, then how to we get around it’s defenses. All I know is I’ve got to try something. Linda Bacon’s soothsaying is not working for me anymore.
Stalemate, indeed, Skeptic.
The only thing that “works” for me that (1) I’ve tried for any significant time, AND (2) yields a desirable outcome is to stick with…
* Lots of green vegetables (>50% of the plate, by volume)
* Small amounts (2-3 oz.) of beef/fowl/fish per meal
* A few servings of fruit (berries), as desired
* No ADDED oils/fats (just what’s in whole foods)
* Small amounts of starches/nuts/seeds/grains
So, basically, a restrictive low-ish-carb diet.
When I say that it “works,” I do lose weight/fat and my pants get loose in the waist. But, man, do I hate choking-down all those green vegetables.
Part of the problem is my eating them steamed with nothing on them but a splash of salt. That’s my fault, for not knowing how to prepare them in a more palatable way. Roasting them in the oven would probably be good.
I have a pressure cooker, but the only time I tried cooking asparagus, broccoli, and Brussels sprouts in it, rather than being bland, they turned bland AND mushy. Double fail.
Anyway, if I eat that way long enough, foregoing added sugars/sweets/desserts, I lose the craving for them. When food is boring and bland, eating is just a rote task I must complete, devoid of joy.
But, I also seem to like predictability and structure, after all the goddamn ping-ponging back-and-forth from one eating plan to another. It’s “easier” having the lists of “good” and “bad” foods.
Though, I also know all the above is a bunch of bullshit I’d talked myself into (or, resigned myself to, out of frustration) and is not a real solution.
This is an image that I found on Google Images that shows the exact “diet” that I followed that “worked” for me. No snacking outside of meals and only what’s allowed on the list.
http://www.moonsandspoons.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/10/IMG_3056-555×1024.jpg
So, it was boring and restricted calories. Like Matt wrote: It’s works. Until it doesn’t.
Despite knowing people who eat whatever they want, don’t even think about food or what’s in it, and remaining lean, I STILL have the idea that the solution is to eat only whole, natural foods (without the absurd restrictions in the above image and in my above writing) and ride-it-out for at least six months. Though, I would still caution to not add isolated/refined fats like oils, butter, etc.
Yet, I know if it were that simple, more people would either be doing it…or, at least having better success with it. Maybe that’s the “Naturalistic Fallacy,” “Appeal to Nature,” or whatever-it’s-called that the skeptic blogs always mention.
Also, I know it’s almost certainly not only food that’s the issue. Stress, sleep, exercise, blah, blah, blah that we’ve been hearing over-and-over.
We repeatedly hear that other societies are thinner than us Americans. True? I have no idea. But, if it is, what are they doing or not doing? Besides living in an inhospitable climate and/or starving, that is.
Sorry for the brain dump. Speaking of sleep, I didn’t get much, last night. Only 90 minutes, before I was awake and toss-and-turned for another 90 minutes, before finally getting-up. I need a nap.
Keep the comments coming, Skeptic!
Carl, when you say that diet works for you, does that include only sleeping 90 minutes a night?
Sounds like a pretty hellish diet. You know, I always think about the French and their amazing tasting cuisine. They use heavy butter, cream, duck fat, lots of white bread, etc. delishious Whole Foods cooked well. They stay lean eating this way. You can too!
Hi, Zach:
You’re 100% right that my sleep is hellish, unfortunately. That’s definitely NOT working for me.
As for that dumb, restrictive diet I mentioned, I’m not actually following that anymore. That was a couple of years ago. I erred in not making that clear, so thanks for giving me an opportunity to clarify that fact.
The sleep is one of several issues with which I’m dealing.
The most recent problems started almost five years ago. I had a sudden onset of extreme fatigue that persists to this day. A month later, I got really sick with what I thought was a bad sore throat and a cold/flu. Only, it lasted seven straight weeks. I had a few rounds of antibiotics that did nothing. Months later, a different doctor figured I’d almost certainly had walking pneumonia for those seven weeks. Tinnitus started, too, and still persists.
About 14 months later (and more doctors, tests, and money), I found a tick embedded in the back of my leg. It tested positive for the main bacteria associated with Lyme Disease (though there are hundreds of microbes they can carry) and I took more antibiotics. Four months later, things got much worse and it’s been a shit-storm since. I’ve tested positive for HSV-1, HSV-2, HHV-6, Mycoplasma Pneumoniae, Chlamydia Pneumoniae, Parvovirus B19 (I even passed it to someone else, unknowingly) and even ongoing, elevated levels of Carbon Monoxide that no one can determine the reason or source.
So, these days, the diet stuff doesn’t ruffle my features nearly as much as in the past. I do still think about it — at times, too much. But, it’s generally further down my list of priorities.
As for the French, I almost mentioned them, too, in my previous post. The “French Paradox,” they say. Though, Dr. Greger states it’s not really much of a paradox at all. I don’t recall the details, but he made a video about the topic, some time ago.
Today, I started with a banana and a bowl of cereal. Then, a short while later, two HUGE doughnuts from a local shop that makes them from scratch and to order, hours later, I picked-up a pizza from a local shop that uses excellent ingredients. I ate half there and just stopped writing this post long enough to finish the other half. It was a good day. Food-wise, at least.
Soon, I plan to take some extended-release melatonin and an herbal sleep product. I usually take these, anyway, but, tonight, I’ll take two doses — one dose an hour before bed and the second dose at bedtime. Maybe things will go better, tonight. I hope so.
Wishing you well.
Carl
I was watching a Tim Ferris video recently, and coincidentally he had Lyme disease too, confirmed because they found the ticks. He said he cured it with the keto diet (plus meds I presume). Wonder if there’s any science behind that.
If the video of Tim Ferris discussing Lyme Disease was with Rhonda Patrick, I saw part of it. I had to stop it, though, because it’s a complicated topic that gets me easily upset.
Fasting is unlikely to cure an infectious disease. It could be an adjunctive therapy, I suppose, but ticks, fleas, mosquitos, and other biting/stinging vectors have the possibility of transmitting any of the myriad viruses and bacteria about which scientists know.
Example: The main bacteria associated with Lyme Disease is Borrelia Burgdorferi. However, there are over 50 Borrelia variants that have been identified.
“In his 2015 book on Lyme Disease, Stephen Buhner points out that ‘depth examination of Ixodes ticks has found they can carry up to 237 genera of microorganisms that are infectious to vertebrates’ (and that’s just one type of tick). A genus is a group of organisms with similar characteristics. For microbes, a genus can include many species. Tallied up, the list of tick-borne microbes adds up into the hundreds or even thousands.” https://bit.ly/2E51uCK
So, it’s not just “Lyme Disease” itself, there are various other infections (coinfections) that can come-along for the ride.
There’s also “Acute” Lyme Disease vs. “Chronic” Lyme Disease.
If a person gets bitten, the tick (or, other vector) may or may not be infected with any pathogen (though, it’s generally believed most are carrying SOMETHING). Next, the question is whether or not the tick/vector was attached long enough to transmit any pathogens to the host. Also, did the person see, feel, or otherwise notice the bite/attachment? If so, were they able to get the antibiotic Doxycycline quickly enough and were they prescribed the correct amount for the proper length of time? That, in turn, depends on which Doctor they consulted. Was it a Doctor that follows the IDSA guidelines or the ILADS guidelines? The health of the person that was bitten also plays a part. How healthy is their immune system? Did they have any ongoing health conditions, prior to the bite? Any genetic considerations that might make treatment/recovery more challenging?
As much as I can go on-and-on about diet-/food-related stuff, it’s even worse for me when discussing Lyme Disease and Coinfections.
When dealing with folks face-to-face, I often don’t mention it, because it could turn into a heated debate. And, I don’t have the energy or desire to argue with folks.
Much like diet, when it comes to Lyme Disease (or, any other number of things), people can hear a sound bite on the news or read an article and think they know the totality of the issue. “I heard ‘XYZ’ on NPR and they said ‘blah, blah, blah’ about it.”
If they can’t even get diet correct, how likely are they to have all the facts on various infectious diseases and their interactions on any given person’s immune system?
Highly unlikely, in my opinion.
p.s. I was just checking weather.com to look at the forecast for this afternoon and evening and saw the following article. How timely.
https://weather.com/health/news/2018-05-11-invasive-tick-species-deadly-disease-new-jersey
I suspect bacteriophages are where it’s at when it comes to fighting infectious disease. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YI3tsmFsrOg
Damn, Lyme disease sounds rough. This just adds to my distrust of nature and going outside lol. It wasn’t with Rhonda, it was just him talking to the camera. I didn’t watch much but he said something about the keto diet rejuvinating mitochondria, which helped with the fatigue. I don’t think he’s saying that keto alone cured him. I wish you the best in your battle.
@matt: I remember you mentioning something about bacteriaphages a long time ago (something about the river Ganges), and now it’s blowing up in the mainstream. Ahead of the curve as always ????
I agree with Matt about Phage therapy. But, only if the $#*% FDA would try to be helpful.
It seems there’s often a governmental agency in the way of people getting what they need. While I understand there should be some caution, in certain cases, when all other treatments have failed a person, they and their doctor should, in my opinion, be allowed to try unconventional approaches.
As for Lyme Disease, I recently read about the following lawsuit:
“TEXARKANA, Texas (CN) ? Twenty-eight people claim in a federal antitrust lawsuit that Lyme disease victims are being forced to pay hundreds of thousands of dollars for treatment because health insurers are denying coverage with bogus guidelines established by their paid consultants, who falsely say the disease can always be cured with a month of antibiotics.
Suffering from migraine headaches, an irregular heartbeat, hearing problems and nerve pain, lead plaintiff Lisa Torrey says in the lawsuit filed Friday in Texarkana, Texas federal court that she visited 36 doctors, some of whom misdiagnosed her with multiple sclerosis and fibromyalgia and said her symptoms ?were all in her head,? before she was properly diagnosed with Lyme disease.”
https://www.courthousenews.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/11/LymeDisease.pdf
Lyme Disease, like many conditions referred to as “mysterious,” is a giant shit-storm, for a variety of reasons and on all sides.
Although it’s been a while, I recall Matt writing an article on Lyme Disease and handling the topic with care, as it’s a complex subject.
Anyway, back to Bacteriophages, I’d first heard about this therapy in 2015. Since then, however, I’ve not heard much else about it in the Lyme Disease camps. Again, I think our governing/regulatory agencies are impediments. So, if people do get phage therapy, they have to leave the U.S. and be able to afford it out-of-pocket.
Here’s a good video on Bacteriophages that I saw late last year:
The Virus That Kills Drug-Resistant Superbugs
https://youtu.be/aVTOr7Nq2SM
As some of us keep saying, infections (silent, hidden infections) are likely impacting many of us without our knowledge. And, as Razwell mentioned, infections may eventually be found to be a major contributor to the obesity epidemic. The more we learn, the more we realize how much everything is connected — and, how much we still don’t know.
Hopefully we don’t have to eat “high meat” and animal droppings and drink from the Ganges. As of now, those are the cheapest DYI bacteriophage options. Can’t believe Vonderplanitz might have actually been somewhat scientifically accurate with that shit.
The Ganges comment had me laughing…
…until I saw Vonderplanitz’s name.
Then, my gag reflex kicked-in, when I recalled the video of him eating all those rotting meats.
There’s an anti-vegan guy on YouTube that is gaining some popularity lately, carrying on the Vonderplanitz torch. In this video he apparently eats 3-year old chicken, lol. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q9fcVNb2-tg
Oh, FFS! I’m gonna puke!
I’ve seen some of his YouTube videos and his back-and-forth with the vegans. I think YouTuber “Vegan Gains” went after him pretty hard (as he does for everyone else).
In the description of the Sv3rige video, it said they were also in Palm Harbor. It’s too bad you didn’t have the change to invite him down to see you. You guys could have left some raw meat in the trunk of the car all day and had it for dinner.
Imagine getting a fecal transplant from that guy…
Ah yes, Sv3rige lol. He’s batshit crazy, of course, but I can’t stop watching his videos. He thinks the world is flat, that there are only a billion people on Earth, that cancer is actually good for you lol, and that secret masons and NWO spread veganism to control us.
Every now and then though, he’ll say something interesting. That’s why vegans can’t stop hate watching him lol
I didn’t realize Sv3rige is a flat-earther! But, I’m not totally surprised. His brain is probably full of maggots from all the rotting food he eats.
As for the other stuff he believes, well, he’s got too many bats in his belfry.
Here is something to read that was just posted today. https://cowseatgrass.org/2018/05/09/are-you-running-on-empty/
THANK you for posting that link!!! WOW ! going back to re-read it again….
The calorie model insists on positing a closed system where none exists. Humans are open, non-equilibrium , dissipative systems! Dr. Gavin Crooks (top expert in thermodynamics)AGREES 100% with Urgelt and me. Guyenet is ABUSING thermodynamics to blame obesity victims. Lyle et al should bury their heads in the ssnd and be ASHAMED of themselves! They have been DEFRAUDING READERS FOR OVER A DECADE!
ACTUAL experts do N O T agree with Stephan Guyenet and his exploitation of physics. Crooks STRESSED obesity is NOT, NOTK NOT a physivs issue. He emphasized it is a BIOCHEMICAL TOPIC.
The other sin of the calorie model does not even attempt to explain many , many observations. Genuine scientists know this. I have written to them. Ignoring evidence and observstions is a good way to get your theory killed.
Urgelt and I LAUGH at Lyle et al’s ignorance.
The immume system is going to be HUGE in obesity. You heard it here first. Sciemtists stick their neck out, as Feyhnman and Einstein stressed…. Given what I have peesonally seen in frke ds with immume diseases and given Dr. OxSheaxs resultszI will stick my neck out. Currently it is knkwn that 40% of how oir bodies regulate fatnessis through IMMU EMSYSTEM. Guye et NEVER speaks of this! (Not to my knowledge at ,
least
Guyenet and Lyle tell us NOTHING NEW, they defend andrehash old outdated assumptive models. They habe made ZERO, and I mean, ZERO, progress simce 2008. None.
Meanwhile genuises like Dr. Friedman habe discovered many more single gene defects kwhich WILL CAUSE extreme onesity IRRESPECTIVE of how muxh you eat) and Dr OxShea has discovered how important the IMMU E SYSTEM is to body fatness. Jimmy Mokre likely has a genedefect. People pick on him-they are ge erally low intelligence, like CarbSane
The caloroe mldel is a damn disgrave and insult to people suxh as Robin quivers who took strong cancer drugs and got very fat from them. Calorie model is laughable. In her case (and other people with serious diseases) , tragic. I am glad she is still with us.
Dr. Donal O’Shea is on record in articles stating that the useless nostrum ,” eat less, move more is N-O-T how it works.” Regarding body fat regularion in obese or even normal people. Dr. Friedman echkes this that eat less, move mkre is a silly 2,000 year old nostrum and NOT how this works. Scientists on rhe cutting edge,keeping up with CONTEMPORARY findings knkw this.
Somebody needs to tell the totally incompetent James Fell, Richard Nikoley, Stephanie Guyenet, Lyle McDonald and CarbSane. Cream of the crop scie tists admit “eat less, move morec is NOT how this works. People will not give this up and let it fol that is THEIR failing.
Prof Kraiss has a recent interview where he says there is evidence that the principles that govern biology MAY VERY WELL BE DJFFERENT than those that govern the universe, tables, chairs, planets etc. Google it. Closer To Truth
I watched a couple of Urgelt’s youtube videos – but, which ones are the ones to watch that will tell what his weight loss solution is (I got, no more PUFA’s ). thanks-
a bit confusing, b/c urgelts video #2 talks about calories, reducing calories. ??
Hi b,
Yes, I know. That was before he really looked into it. The video is called “Obesity And Prejudice” by Urgelt. Read the comments by hi especially the comment section, it is even better than the video.
There is no conservation of MATTER principle or law in physics. NONE. Somebody really needs to confront James Krieger, Nigel Kinbrum, CarbSane amd James Fell and possibly Stephanie Guyenet. Most of them have used this or implied it. There is only a conservation of energy pri ciple. What is energy? It is a NUMBER, a totally abstract characteristic , as Alan Guth stresses on New England Physics Misconceptiins site. Matter is STUFF. Energy has no existence in itself . Just some bookkeeping fictiin we use. This conservation of this NUMBER energy- DOES NOT APPLY to expanding universe, NOR to aspects ofmGeneral Relativity as Sean Carrol notes Google v “Energy Is Not Conserved Sean Careoll “. PhysicsGirl on YouTube has a great video about the LIMITS of our invented laws.There ate SPECIAL CASES in physics. Physics is NOTdone by FIAT, NOR is any law sacrosanct…Recently there is steong speculation tje laws of physics ECOLVE WITH TIME. Dirac, Feynman and others thought it very well may be. Perimeyer Institute has a great lecture on this.
Humans are NOT closed systems. The calorie model is wrong, it does NOT “have to be true.”…… CI/CO or CICO is a stuoid acronym invented by fitness industry and not even part of physics or biology…. It has taken on a life of its own. It is total abuse of physics.And biology.
Guyenet et al have
to STOP misleadi g readers about physics.as prof Kriass notes, physjcs may turn out to be a n ENVIRONMENTAL scie ce which woukd be disappointing to him Poop for brains, Lyle McDonald once said to me , “Thermodynamics explains rhe universe. He is SO CONFUSED AND IGNKRANT he is beyond laughable. He is no furu, he is a physics illiterate clown salesman. I am happy to expose him. l despise these gurus. Urgelt told me yeats ago they are ALL FRAUDS.
Tell Krieger there is NO-NO-NO conservation of MATTER (as he is using it) in physics. Matter is created all the time in the quantum vacuum. The first law of thermodynamics does Not at all deal with matyer. It deals with energy, a NUMBER. Claiming that matyer cannot be created kr destroyed is wrong, wrong wrong.
I am so tired of these a@@hole gurus tryint to SOUND authoeitatibe and abusing physics, Urgelt hates it too.
Calories are literally invented fiction. There is a host of this invented fiction-joules, ergs, kilowatt hours, inverse fermions -none of these fictions are A-N-Y different tha calories.We do not need any more invented units! Use one common unit for all-everything. All these units are the SAME. Calories, inverse fermions, kilowatt hours are EXACTLY THE SAME. They’re ALL EXACTLY THE SAME! ZERO DIFFERENCE. Please TELL Krieger and Guyenet! They are uneducated on the topic. There is nothing special about calories, nothing intrinsic to food about them. Calories could be ABANDONED TOMORROW. In fact, some physicists would like that-the calorie is an old, outdated, antiquated unit. We have far too many units already, it is absurd and an embarrassment , said Richard Feynman himself. No human or animal seeks calories because they do not exist and mean nothing to your body. NOR can energy or calories or inverse fermions do ANYTHING to human cells. Energy and its units CANNOT ACT, CANNOT ACT on human body in ANY way. I am on tge FIRMEST of ground about this topic. Please educate Guyenet-he is MISLEADING readers. Can “lithe”, “jittery” , “spindly”, “chubby” or “huge” act on human cells? Obviously not… Same with energy-it is a totally abstract human invented characteristic, attribute/property etc. Physicists know this. Humans and animals are seeiing something else-carbon and nutrients.
Calories, which are entirely made up/invented FICTION are NOT ANY KIND OF EXPLANATION for obesity and fat cell chemical behavior , nor dysregulation! Guyenet cannot grasp this.
Matter (stuff) and energy (strictly useful fiction, totally abstract invented characteristic) If you ever hear somebody say , “Made of energy”, you will know immediately it is nonsense. You cannot make an “energy beam.” Physicists emphasize this. That is like saying you can make a “spindly beam”, a beam “made of spindly.” I see the misuse of energy constantly by Lyle McDonald and Stephan Guyenet. Feynman noted he saw the term energy thrown around incorrectly. Energy does NOT make things move, contrary to what laymen believe. Feynman had a great article about this.
Humans eat to replenish carbon supplies. Carbon is stuff, matter, an actual part of Nature. Calories, joules, ergs, inverse fermions are not anything…..Just invented fiction. Calories versus carbohydrates or/and fatty acids is plain stupid. There has to be COMMON STUFF-REAL STUFF that BOTH fats and carbohydrates possess.ACTUAL ENTITIES. Carbon is one of them. There is no such thing as “calories.” We need to SPECIFY EXACTLY WHAT we are talking about and comparing.People EAT ATOMS-STUFF, NOT calories. When you eat food, you are NOT eating something or some thing called calories (nor joules or inverse fermionsl. Feynman emphasized this.
There is NO DIFFERENCE in saying “calorie rich food” versus “Inverse fermion rich “food.SAME EXACT statement. Rich with WHAT EXACTLY? Those units are not ANYTHING, Just invented fiction.~ Feynman , the man himself , called calories and inverse fermions INVENTIONS on video in a lecture. Energy, itself, is just some number humans compute for convenience… Energy , itself, has no existence! There is no such stuff, thing or entity as “pure energy.” I cannot stress enough that “energy” is A STRICTLY A HUMAN INVENTED BOOKEEPING DEVICE , NOTHING MORE WHATSOEVER -and to call out Guyenet , Krieger, McDonald CarbSane, Hall, and Lagakos publicly on their GROSS MISCONCEPTIONS about energy and what it is. They are beyond confused. Peter M. Brown over at The Naked Scientists forum has an excellent discussion he started asking laymen what they THINK energy is and why. Energy is NOT-NOT “the ability to do work.”All professional physicists laugh at these dopey gradeschool textbooks. Even college textbooks get the definition wrong.
~My main point is that humans do NOT eat something or some thing called calories.
~Humans do not seek “calories” anymore than they seek inverse fermions. Invented fictitional units mean NOTHING to the human body. Calories are not.. anything…, nor can they act on a human body. Humans seek food, fuel , carbon, nutrients, stuff.
~Calories are NOT heat (nor are kilowatt hours or inverse fermions), as dopey Lyle et al think…. Caliries are UNITS , NOT special and one unit among many, many invented fictitional units
~Not a single calorie or kilowatt hour etc. EVER MORPHED from fictional characteristic into MATTER -bodily human fat or muscle tissue
~Now, heat, infrared radiation etc. is part of the electromagnetic field, the electromagnetic spectrum. Heat , being radiation, can act.We are burned from the UV sunlight, for instance . This is DIFFERENT from made up units of energy. We cannot see heat like some snakes can but we feel it as Feynman said while talking about light and wsves. X rays, UV rsys, cosmic rays, infrared heat, radiowaves-all from the electrical field. Just different lengths of these waves. Radiation , while not matter, IS STUFF. Such is N. O. T. the case for energy or its units
“Humans do not seek ‘calories’ anymore than they seek inverse fermions.”
hahaha — Awesome!
Whatever the hell Inverse Fermions are, I’ll take some, provided they’re covered in butter, syrup, and powdered sugar! :-)
Me too, Carl. I love pancakes or “pan kek kees” as I call them affectionately LOL !!!!!!!!
Hi Matt, too.
I am EXACTLY the same way. If I ever restrict good tasting foods- it will make me want them MORE. Leading to preoccupation and or eating more than I would normally. Terribel tasting food leaves me RAVENOUS and thinking alllll day about it. TERRIBE strategy for millions. Guyenet is ignoiring all of these responders.
Linda Baocn has very good research about it. Guyenet is living a PIPE DREAM if he believes this will solve or treat obesity. It won’t . I ASSURE HIM!!!!!
Even gastric bypass is largely a failure and dfoes not work anywhere near as well or effectve as ADVERTISED- the exact words of Dr Friedm,an. Nor does it slightly work by “eating less.” Rather , it is the chemical cocktails created and the damage done ( and neural circuitry)( this involuntary regulatory system- somewhat “positive damage or- ” alteration” is a better word” that helps. But it still largely fails.Guyenet , in 2010, KNEW BETTER THAN THIS. That is why I am soooo DISPLEASED and DISAPPOINTED in him. He is a Taubes bashing semi-crank. A WILLFUL spewer of stuff he knows to be wrong, such as the simplsitic overeating mantra. Having a Ph.D. does not mean much of anything, most Ph.D.’s never ever create new in formation, just average workers,.Such is the case with Stephan Guyenet- he has made NO progress whatsoever in a decade. Nor will he as long as he has his current attitude. Continually asking what cheese the moon is made of is NOT something Newton did. Newton ( and Tauibes) asked GOOD QUESTIONS ,. Asking the right questions is essential to solviong scientific problems. This is why Feynm,an saiod THINK LIKE A MARTIAN who has never seen such a problem.
There is NO REASON in the first place to resrtict taste bud pleasing foods . I think it is a pretty rare situation where somebody has a particular food that they literally will eat tons of- tons and tons. Where they just cannot stop and are super, super glutons. I love pizza but I stop farrrr shy of ever eating the full large pizza. I kn ew in my life one or two very lean gluttomns as kids. My own dad engaged in this nonsense,. relatives would verify alllllll he had at buffets in Florida. I am talkign SEVEN SERVINGS. My dad was 5′ 9″ 135 pounds at the time. ( age 15 or so maybe 17) Seven serviongs SEVEN- THEN DESERT !!!!!! O…. M… G …
Guyenet’s Food Reward is BOLLOCKS. I believe it is willful disingenuous bollocks, too, JUST to be contrarian to Taubes. I dislike Colpo ( not as much as McDonald though) vbut I ADMIT he has a case with iron and CAD and the way he stresses the importance of magnesium is correct.
Friedman, O’Shea ,Gordon,. Liebel – none of these guys even talks about Food Reward…..It is a dead end and was debunked years ago. Stephan Guyenet is taking us back decades. He has trulty regressed in his career alllll over some Taubes versus Guyenet spat. it is beyond sad. I really hope he comes to his senses and gets back to his 2008 mode of investigation – not that he ever was great – but he was reasonable then.
Taubes is an idiot. Anyone who bashes Taubes is ok in my book. You said Guyenet hasn’t solved anything in a decade. Neither has anyone else. Nutrition science is a failed science.
Nutritional science is indeed weak and failed. However, at least Taubes asks hard hitting questions. Guyenet has REGRESSED WILLFULLY , he knew better than this in 2010. His borrowed Food Reward ( not his idea)
Food Reward model will literally will lead nowhere, and has led to nowhere. It is utter outdated garbage. He would have knwon this in 2010. It is a situation of being contrarian on purpose.
Now Friedman, OShea, l;ebel et al HAVE- HAVE made progress. Fruiedman has identified many more single gebne defects that led to obesioty. What’s MORW is that FRIEDMAN IS ACTUALLY LOOKING IN THE RIGJHT DIRECTION. Guyenet is NOT AT ALL looking in the rigth direction, NOR askign the rigth questions-as Isaac Newton felt was MOST important. ASK the hard hitiing “right questions”. THINK LIKE A MARTIAN said Feynman. ( When stumbling or stuck on a propblem)
Guyenet et al CONTIMUE to ask WHAT CHEESE IS THE MOON MADE OF then propse various options over the eyars- provol;one, no, no it;s SWISS! LOL!!!!
Tauesn is intelligent. I know for a fact that Davod Gross highly ADMIRES him. David Gross is a physics legend by the way,.
The Blogpshere does not understand what “laws” are:
Here is David Gross- 100 times smarter than Guyenet: Take this and SHOW it to the smug banning charlatans mcDon ald and Guyenet
“David Gross Do The Laws Of Physics EVEN EXIST”?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c1HHFlfVIJs
HE IS MOST QUALIFIED TO SPEAK!!!!! NOT GUYENET!!!!!
~~~~~World class phsycists AGREE WITH ME FULLY on energy- they do NOT agree with GUyenet, McDonald, Colpo, CarbSane or any other Tauebs basher even remotely.~~~~~~ If I mention thast I am banned,. THese Taubes basjers are FRAUDS, TOTAL FRAUDS AND DISINGENUOUS.
( I understand low carb is not the answer for everything and obesity is farrrr more complexd and I understand insulin, WHILE IMPORTANT, is only one homone vs. many, plus the immune system’s involvement. I try to esat LOWER carbs- too much sugar raises risj for PANCREATIC CANCER , it also OVERWORKD the pancreas. We MUST keep our pancreas rested and healthy. They cannto do anything for
what Patrick Swayze aquired.
Guyenet , mcDo0nald et al – they are charlatans who are absuing energy. In fact, world class physicists WERE THE FIRST TO TELL ME , to educate ME, that “energy” is NOT, NOT, NOT,NOT stuff of ANY, ANY sort. I am grateful;. At one time I held the miscocneptions, too. It is a toally invented CHARCTERISITC. It is for tidy bookkeeping and convenience.
Here is even more support from Alan GUth at the “New Engl;and Physics Mscocneptions” ( have a LOOK! ) website where he says “energy is ONLY just a charcterisitc OF other actual things and stuff. Energy is mathematical abstarction, nothing more whatsoever. “Pure energy” is PURE NONSENSE.It is abuse of physics by laymen.
And here is retired competent physicist, Peter M. Brown, trying to educate the pubic about “energy”. Take this info and CHALLENGE these IGNORANT LOW I.Q. Taubes bashers – such as Guyenet et al. THEY ARE ALL WRONG about “calories,.” Everytime you hear calorie, REPLCAE IT with INVERSE FERMIIONS. LOL ! NO DIFFERENCE.
You will see how stupid the whole misuse is. ALL of them are ignorant and misusing energy. Peter is disabled unfortunately these days but has plenty of time to correct laymen. Be careful to pay attention to PETER’S ANSWERS and comments ( he knows what he is doing) ,. ignore the other laymen who are arguing and have no points. Peter’s p[osition is CONGRUIENT with Alan Guth’s ( world class) ELITE top tier physicists and cosmologist! Guyenet is a thuid rate or forth tier scientist. NOT all scientists are equal. Weinberg is ELITE.
https://Wwww.thenakedscientists.com/forum/index.php'topic=67135.0
Lyle McDonald and GUyenet are not nearly as smart as Gary Taubes, especially that room temp I.Q. Lyle,.. I have had eprsonal conversatiopns with McDonald and he totally misunderstands energy and is MISLEADING GREEN rube readers.
I quit dieting over 5 years ago…after a 6 month low carb famine and gain all that I’d lost and gained back to my highest the first time I quit dieting…to a total of 100 pounds over my natural weight. After stopping gaining, it took all those years to stop waiting too long to eat when hungry, or ignoring hunger because of location…grocery shopping, etc taking hours and waiting until I got home another hour and then unloading the car.
I stayed the same weight, but was also experience frequent edema in the legs (5-7 pounds), so much it would make my pant legs tight by the end of a work shift. Then take nearly a week to get it somewhat under control and then back again. I could find no reason for it. Yet, I was also experiencing reflux nearly all day…even with bicarbonate to combat it somewhat.
THEN, I was looking up non-medication ways to CURE reflux and found D3. Not overnight, but over many weeks to months. The person who praised it so highly had even worse reflux pain than I did over several years. On top of that it .her recent bladder leakage.
.
So, I tentatively started taking it. IOW I took it here and there not really trusting it and more or less forgetting. In previous comments above I mention I found Jeff Bowles articles and read everything on all his sites.
Got serious and took high dosages with magnesium and the reflux started to improve. Surprise, so did the edema. And the bladder leakage.
Another surprise, so did my appetite most recently. I am so picky now, I am still wondering how that happened. I am losing weight without effort. Eating what sounds good when I check in before preparing food.
At times deciding I’ll have something that my gut tells me it will tolerate, and then discover I can only eat a few bites and have to eat something considered junk food…with more carbs and salt.
I cannot binge/overeat on anything…and haven’t for months now. But it wasn’t until April that I don’t want much of anything.
I have that 100 pounds to lose, so I’ll take it.
I realize that consensus here about D3 is it’s dangerous. Without magnesium is truly is. Without K2 or K7 I believe less so than magnesium.
At any rate my body is now self regulating despite some most current posts claiming the body is too stupid to figure out it’s needs. The D3/Mg has now given me that …no more painful reflux from just drinking plain water and a now seldom minor reflux that can be ignored and correct itself if I ate something knowingly a wrong decision. I had checked in with my gut and did an override. Simple as that.
Children follow their gut and refuse to eat what no longer tastes good and refuse to clean their plate even if they get threatened with no dessert.
There is a diet The Weigh Down —over the top religious. with a basic guide to how to eat at each meal without restriction of any foods or food groups that explains this in detail, but I could not do it without D3/Mg. Now I do eat this way. And I only reference it because I know what the guidance is. Eat the best parts and stop when tired of that food and eat what still tastes good…including a dessert…even if dessert is the best thing…eat that first. Don’t bother eating the burnt parts or the crust of a pie if you don’t want it. Stop when nothing tastes good anymore and you are full. Do not shovel in food, just sit down and enjoy it…even in front of the television. Even if truly enjoying your food is only when eating alone. You don’t need to even think about intuitively eating, just enjoy it…only the best bits.
She emphasizes that God doesn’t make junk food….that all food combinations are allowed. Wheat flour, eggs, salt, sugar leavening are good foods that in various combinations could be pancakes, cookies, cake, breakfast cereal. If you want cookies with milk for breakfast, what’s the difference from eggs with toast, butter, jam?
I’ll stop now.
Yay, I sayeth unto thee, I hath found the following:
http://www.weighdown.com
http://store.weighdown.com/assets/pdf/wd_basics_workbook.pdf
I found an interesting summary of the diet on WebMD.com:
“What You Can Eat and What You Can’t
The Weigh Down Diet is about how much you eat, and not about foods you must eat or avoid.
Listen to your body, notice when you’re full, and stop eating. Those concepts apply regardless of faith.
To find out what hunger feels like, The Weigh Down Diet recommends that you don’t eat anything until your stomach grumbles. Then eat something you love, even if it contains salt, sugar, or fat. You’re encouraged to eat regular food, rather than diet food. Experiment first by cutting your normal portion in half.
Eat slowly, concentrating on flavors and textures, and learn to stop when you start to feel full; don’t wait until you’re stuffed. Wait until you feel hungry to eat again.
The book suggests eating your favorite foods first, because you may feel full at any time. If you fill up on less favorable foods to start, you may feel compelled to keep eating to taste what you really love. Keep in mind, though, that if your favorites aren’t good for you, you may not meet your nutritional needs.
Alcoholic beverages are permitted in moderation.”
I’m glad the D3/Mg combination is working for you, AnnB. You’ve made some significant improvements.
I have followed Weigh Down since about 2004, other then a few forays into raw foods diet, Paleo diet. Those never lasted long. Always came back to the Weigh Down principles. I just ignore the religious extremes of the author of course.
Never done the weigh down but I’ve done intuitive eating, and it just makes things OCD for me. The check ins become obsessive, and I feel hunger even more than usual. I’ll read it though.
Yeah I read the research on vitamin D. I was ready to go all in when the news came out: vitamin D by itself is dangerous! Take it with Magnesium duh! Now this month I’ve been reading that you can’t take Magnesium without Calcium. Apparently, they have to be in a certain ratio to each other. Plus, don’t forget K1&2! You see what’s happening? They’re making it up as they go along. Who knows what other rules will pop up for taking vitamins? They’ll say no, you can’t just take vitamin D with Magnesium in the correct ratio to calcium, you also have to take Cobalt in a 1:14 ratio to selenium, but make sure that selenium is at least the square root of pi, and no more than the circumference of the sun, cubed, while making sure that you balance that selenium with a Plank length of copper…
It’s all jibberish. Nutrition science is at the level of shamans and reading tea leaves now. Maybe in 500 years they’ll actually have some solutions.
First post AND four hundredth! :-)
Shit, 400 comments means I better write a new post. I guess my third viewing of Cobra Kai season 1 can wait.
A new post? Yes, please.
Yeah, 400+ comments came pretty quickly. It’s still trailing “The Metabolic Zone” post (542 comments), but the gap is still closing.
Are there any remaining topics you want to write about? Initially, I was thinking maybe the Ketogenic diet, but perhaps there are better options.
Hit the pause button, grasshopper, sharpen your #2 pencil, and wax (on) philosophic!
Sweep the lick!
The next post I’m planning will be titled something like, “The Double-Edged Sword of ‘Find What Works for You.'”
Write that new post! Strike first, strike hard…
Nice Anna!
I LOVE the whole Karate Kid movies. The scenery, the time etc. I was just a very young elementary school kid ( lower levels in 1987ish. That sensei instructor was a great actor. THose movies bring back my earliest memories.
A little off topic but I just noticed, I believe M.J. is 0 for 9 against Bird in playoffs. Wow. Bird was truly excellent. 1986 Celtics knew how to play the right way- I was just far too yong to watch or appreciate them then.I havwe to give you credit, Matt, for first prompting me to check this out.
Matt, have you ever critiqued this article https://jackkruse.com/emf-4-why-might-you-need-carbs-for-performance/ or any of his other writings ? If you have can you point me to it? I’m new here and am just starting to read your material. Some of the Kruse stuff seems ok, some of it I have no idea what he’s talking about!
Thanks,
Shane
You mean Jack Karnival Kruse? haha
I have few comments about Kruse. He’s just a more sciencey-sounding Dave Asprey at best.
Hey Matt, thanks for replying. I’m afraid I don’t know why you referred to him as ? karnival ? Kruse. I haven’t read enough about Asprey to make the connection. I only know him with regard to Bulletproof coffee. I guess I need to read up on these guys a little more. Thanks
Shane,
Allow me to retort:
http://www.cruiselawnews.com/2012/05/articles/weird-cruise-news/bioterrorism-tweet-leads-carnival-cruise-line-to-kick-dr-kruse-off-low-carb-cruise
http://www.fathead-movie.com/index.php/2012/05/17/the-cruise-and-kruse-report
https://freetheanimal.com/2012/05/dr-jack-kruse-booted-from-carnival-2012-low-carb-cruise.html
Personally, I think he’s nuttier than squirrel shit.
Ahhh, I see. Yeah, he seems more than a little off from what I’ve been reading. I think he likes yes people. Whenever I hear someone say over and over not to believe in gurus they usually want to be your guru. He seems to me to be that type. Thanks for the links.
The Karnival reference is to Carnival Cruise lines.
It’s a good word to describe Kruse because he’s kind of a mad scientist, spinning complex webs of wild theories. To me he’s David Wolfe dressed up in sciencey language.
Ok Matt, gotcha on the Karnival thing. Wow, bizarre.
Not necessarily relevant to the above post but wholly relevant to the wider issue of seeking to cure everything with diet…. I have always had good skin and never suffered from acne/spots etc, just dryness in winter. lately I’ve become accustomed to carrying protein bars (what I call a massive success after being so fucked up with perfect eating for years) for convenience and because they fill me up if I am having a busy day. I’ve also noticed the past few weeks that I have permanent spots on my chin and jawline. I can’t be sure the two are linked, but it’s the only thing that’s changed in my lifestyle and I’ve heard about soy being likely to cause hormonal disruption before. My main worry is not so much that I have a few spots, but rather that they’re indicative of some other issue I’m causing..and of course the spots could be completely benign and I am over analysing everything. I am particularly worried about getting diabetes and/or PCOS as my mother has both so I have been pretty conscious of that when making food choices. It had always been carbs and sugar I limited though, and reading about PUFAS being more likely to cause issues has confused me. It makes sense, but nutritional dogma has been ingrained in my head and I think it becomes so baffling. Juuuuust when you think you know, you realise you know absolutely nothing!
David Gross highly admiores Gary Taunes scientific intellect:
Here is Gross debunking the position Guyenet et al hacve:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c1HHFlfVIJs
Peter M Brown also debunks GUyenet and McDonald ( indirectly) . Peter educates the public on what energy is:
https://www.thenakedscientists.com/forum/index.php'topic=67135.0
World class phsycists first educated ME that energy IS NOT AT ALL, AT ALL ANY kind of thing or stuff whatsoever! It is a NUMBER, totally abstarct mathematical FICTION we assign to objects.
Show this to McDonald et al. Confront them. I want to make clear that world class phsycist AGREE WITH ME COMPLETELY NOT – NOT GUyenet about energy. GUyenet does not want all fo you to KNOW THIS, He is running a RACKET FOOLING readers!
CICO is NOT science aNOR phsycs , NOR is it correct. it is a silly fitness industry expression. Inverse fermions In vs. Inverse fermions out. NONSENSE.
WE EAT ATOMS ATOMS ( matter) must be EXCRETED, physcially REMOVED from a human body to lose matter. Biochemical processes HOW OUR BODIES HANDLE AND ABSORB atoms is NOT addressed by some copnservation of energy princple- abstarct mathematiccs for bookkeeping. I have TALKED to TOP TIER thermodynamcis experts. THEY ARE NOT on board with GUyenet. They stated to me obesity is a BIOCHEMICAL PROBLEM NOT- NOT thermodynamics.
DID YOU KNOW that MUCH of what we eat is WASTED? We are very inefficient as world class NObel physicist told me. i can forward you the mail.
The expression CICO is NOT AT ALL any kind of accurate DESCRIPTION of what is going on- actual mechanisms and not even REMTOELY ANY EXOPLANATION (
most important goal- explanation) .
As Weinberg said, you CAN NEVER use “energy” TO EXPLAIN phenomenona, especially BIOLOGICAL disease of obesity.
I honestly don’t understand your hatred of the term calories. It’s a useful term, even though it may not be “real”. Instead of saying glucose and fat every time, you can just say calories. Think of it as money, there’s a price for moving muscles, running organs, etc, and you “pay” with a currency called “calories”. Simple. Body fat is your savings account. If you earn enough money, there’s no need to tap into your savings.
Here is the trillion dollar QUESTION: “Can we INFER from the conservatiopn of energy principle the behavior and regulation/dysregulation of mammalian fat cells.”
The answer is NO, NO and NO!!!!
CICO is a useless nostrum, a silly fitness industry MEME. It is not physics or science. In fact, the CICO weirdo salesmen are POSITING a closed sytem where NONE EXISTS. That is a primary sin of this incorrect model. It also ignores severe obesity in destitute poverty and tumors in destituie povery,. woprld record height holders living all their lives in destitue poverty. The ULTIMATE TEST. Ignorign observatioans is a GREAT WAY to get a theory killed.
Most Taubes bashers call them selves “skeptics” , theya re really CYNICS and contrarians. We have MUCH REASON to0 be SKLEPTICAL of the claorie mdoel which Tuises IS. Sure, he can be in love with his own model BUT HIS GREAT ACCOMPLISHMENT is questioning the calorie /inverse fwermion etc. etc. model , which is DEAD HORSE.
***There are cosmetic procedures using electromagnetic radiation for fat loss-NOTHING to do with exercise or eating. Plus, direct removal via surgery of these atoms. E.M.R. damages fat pads in mice etc.
Inverse fermion in vs inverse fermions out. Kilowatt hours in vs. kilowatt hours out- NONE of those are any kind of useful description or explanation or obesity abd fat ceell regulation GONE AWRY.
Inverse fermion rich food,. calorie rich food. RICH…. WITH…. WHAT? WHAT EXACTLY? One must NAME exactly the matter, the stuff they are talkign about. Calories are FICTION.
Rich with fat or glucose or both.
Both fat and glucose are rich with CARBON. The common thread. Comparing low carb versus “calories” is dumb. They have to be comaring STUFF versus STUFF. Not stuff versus made up fiction. Calories are NOT special whatsoever. They are no different than inverse fermions, egs, joules, kilowatt hours or foot pounds. There is NO THING or NOTHING instrinsic to food called calories.
Food is matter. We humans ASSIGN a number to it.
Body fat does NOT operate that way, liek a bank account Tauebs has poinetd this out as well- Kudos to him. Fat operastes lie a TUMNOR in the oebse, the IMMUNE SYSTEM is involved.
. The body HOARDS fat tissue witjh obesity and MUSCLE is ravaged. fat is the last to go. That is why a severely obese eprson put on a deszert island with zero food- zero available would DIE of starvation and never get lean- he would lsoe muscle in a major way eventually.; The Zucker rat will ravage msucle andbnrain tissue and die super fatty- they have been cut open and this was observed. Nothing in physics says fat has to be ravaged- nothing. No principle at all.
Obesity is biological. s Dr Krauss has noted on Cloer To Truyj the “laws” that govern biology- there IS evdience they are DIFFERENT than the prioncioples that govern the universe- planets etc.
WE MAY NEED NEW laws to figure out how biology works as he said.
There were no obese people at Auschwitz. Morbid, but you get the idea.
There was no obesity in poverty until very recently, when they gained access to cheap and highly palatable foods when predatory food corporations went looking for new “sales opportunities” and found it in impoverished 3rd world countries.
Hate to burst your Taubes bubble but to of his NUSI studies hilariously bombed. They were funded, run and overseen by himself, so he can’t even blame it on the secret vegan cabal allegedly running American medicine, or the evil ghost of Ancel Keys. Lately he’s been pivoting towards bashing processed foods instead of carbs, a.k.a food reward.
So obesity is a disease state and works like a tumor? What happened to the Linda Bacon “health at every size” b.s.
Finally, I agree that “why are people overeating?” Is a better question to ask, but the answer will never not include “eat less”. One of the whys is restriction, as Matt has successfully argued. Another why is food reward. There are many whys, but the how (to lose weight) will always be eat less. If never create a deficit of calories, or “carbon atoms” if you prefer, then why would the body ever tap into it’s store of carbon atoms?
As Austrian scientists in the 1930’s noted, and as Taubes mentioned in his books, fat tissue in the obese becomes dysregulated and hoards and lives for itself- like a TUMOR.
The calorie model is WRONG. It;s only the fitness industry promoting it… Humans are complex biological OPEN systems who exchange matter WITH the ENVIRONMENT. One of the incorrect calorie model’s BIGGEST “sins’ is that it posits a closed system where NONE exists.
Obesity EXISTS in destitute poverty. Thsioe with single gene defects WILL BECOME OBESE on very small amounts, as Friedman IS ON RECORD AS NOTING..
Obesity is not understood. If this were a Marathon scientists would be at the 400 meter mark ONLY and CRAWLING. All we know is that the immune system is heavily involved, genetics are supremely involved, disease states are involved and yes, even atom ingestion ( food -matter etc. has its place) is involved- BUT many obese people are NOT overeating. Many people became very fat from drugs- cancer drugs, and others or simply from gettign serious diseases , as well as immune diseases. “Eat less, move more” is nto hwo this works- NOT how fat is regulated. Itis biologcially regulated and largely involuntary. Even GUYENET ADMITTED THIS IN 2010.Dr Friedman has long said this and Dr O’Shea has too- world class researchers. We know at least that 40 % of our fat tisue regulation has IMMUNE SYSTEM INVOLVEMENT.
Many obese people never overate. And even imn the individuals who are, THEIR RESPONSE IS FAR GREATER than a normal person’s would be- their gain of fat tissue is monumental compared to being a bit paunchy like a normal human. ADD TO THIS WHY, WHY ( in the peopel who did overconsume) that person was sooooo hungry. That is not fully known.
I know many ectomorphs who overconcumed and NEVER got fat. They never get society’s wrath. It is totally unfair. I stick up for obese people becauise ALL the ones I personally know are the hardest working, reasonably eating people I know. As Dr Rosenbaumk HISMELF SAID ON VIDEO- these obese people have a DIFFERENT BIOLOGY than you and I.
Neither Taubes or I have the SOLUTION for obesity- nor does Friedman. None of us remoely claim to. All I am saying is the calorie model is dead wrong- a dead horse in science. I would bet my LIFE on it. We CAN know what is werong and keep on narrowing it down at elast.
Lyle McDonald is selling NONSENSE
VERY little scientific evdience exists ofr a behavioral model- as Urgelt noted. Read the comments in his obesity video. Urgelt has FAR GREATER INTELLECT than GUyenet, McDonald et al. He is a damn genuis. You should see the elaborate details he writtem on some topics.
I can tell you for sure that physicists LAUGH at peopel such as Lyle McDonald abusung physics to blame victimsd and to rake in profit$
Forget calories, joules, ergs, kilowatt hours totally – totally. The name of the game here is MATTER, , HANDLING of and PARTITIONING OF fat tissue’s ( rather than muscle’s) and its REMOVAL/EXCRETION and how this fat tissue is regulated/dysregulated and behaves.
Fat cells must be made to disengorge of their lipid content then BE EXCRETED. Unless this happens- nothing else matters. In the obese , fat cells HOARD. It’s a genuine disease. You could surgically remove it0 it will grow back. Or you could damage it with UV radiation etc. We MUST figure out the CHEMICAL BEHAVIOR of fat cells- it is NOT known,
Back in 2010 when Guyenet did decent work he said this PARTITIONING AND HANDLING ARE ECNTRAL FACTOR.Why do obese peopel get this CLOG in their system,? Guyenet worded it that waym, too. It was a good analogy. DYSREGULATION AND HOARDING OF FAT CELLS in the oebse MUST be solved. Tjhey have fat everywhere, wrists – loaded in every nook and cranny. The are obviously suffering from something.
The various Austrian and German scientists ( although some immoral and Nazis etc.) of the 1930’s were brilliant and on the right track- endocrine, immune, tumor like, hoarding hormonal issue. These scienists were cut from the same cloth as Einy, Planck, Pauli, Schrodinger and the like. What made them and Newton too so great? They ALL asked the RIGHT QUESTIONS.
CICO is WRONG . It is a nonsense expression. Should be thrown out.
Obesity is FAR MORE like a toilet and stop-cock valve etc. analogy. ( and even that is to simplsitic) The way fat tissue is regulated gets “totally effed” with obesity. A biologist once told me obesity and the subsequent fat cell dyregulation is more like the ball-cock or stop-cock mechanism, in the toilet and it interactions. I am not a plumber but he worded it similar to that way.
We need to STOP THINKING about calories and joules and all these INVENTED UNITS. We need to START thinking abnout obesity as the DISEASE IT IS- and the DYSREGULATION which is NOT worked out yet even remotely.
TAUBES IS FAR MORE closer to the correct STYLE of thinking than GUyenet these days. TOP , crweam of the crop thermodynamic scientisst PERSONALLY told me obesity must be looked at from a BIOCHEMICAL FRAMEWORK- NOT- NOT themrodynamics. I HAVE THE E-MAIL STILL. THIS MAN IS A LEADER IN THE FIELD and MIT scientists often copnsult him and read his recent books. he is CUTTING EDGE GENUIS- one of Dr. Gavin Crooks’ associates.
This themrodynamic In ternet bull must be put to REST, IT IS BULL and abuse of physics.
Back on August 11 2011, Stephan Guyenet penned an article at his old blog stating ( correctly) that he fully agreed with Gary Taubes that “body fatness is a bologically regulated ( involuntary )
process and NOT just the passive result of eating and activity behaviors. Guyenet even said in his article “So far, so good , no problem etc.” Guyenet , like Lyle McDonald and others are their ilk, uses the term “energy fairy.” This shows gross ignorance. I am SO disappointed in what he turned into! I think it is EXTREMELY DISINGENUOUS of Guyenet to go back on his 2011 article , as well as his 2010 Kresser interview where he did a decent job. He HAS to know better than this- it isd WILLFULL contraianism and REGRESSION. I DO recommend his 2010 Kresser interview. There, he admonishes “eat less,move more”.
There IS an involuntary system , a POWERFUL involuntary system, that regulates body fatness and defends against fat loss. This involuntary system H-A-S been DEFINITELY identified and is not going away. Friedman, Leibel, Rosenbaum, Douglas Coleman, Jules Hirsch and others were involved in this. identification over the years.This system and GENETICS has THE MOST SAY in your physique. People are different. Immune system is next. Fat bodies exist, people will have to accept this. ( And I am not even talking obesity here- just chubby people). I am an ectomorph, almost a mesomorph , but I never will have prime Mike Tyson’s thick arms no matter how hard I try. I am not willing to take drugs either.
Over a decade, many people remain very stable as far as body fat percentage. NOBODY can keep track of all the carbon atoms eaten and absorbed versus excreted. Calories are ONLY INDIRECTLY related to carbon atoms in a food. That is 12 million calories over ten years and one million or a little more over a year. YOUR BODY is keeping track. Calorie labels are off by as much as 85% , as Dr. Friedman notes in lectures. Never mind that, BECAUSE: NOBODY counts calories, NOR could they ever do it EVEN if labels were accurate….. IN ALL CASES YOUR BODY is doing this. All we can do is affect this involuntary system to a limited degree. You can EYE BALL food and take in a litte less for a short time, NUDGING YOUR BODY in a certain direction. However, this does NOT mean you are counting calories.
The “laws of physics” are what WE humans say about Nature, as Neils Bohr said. As David Gross and Feynman said, The laws of physics are “shadows on the wall of a far deeper reality. They are our very fallible gross approximations that WE THINK are how Nature works, they have been put through the sieve a bit.Our goal is to keep sticking them through and catch which ones are wrong! Feynman himself stated this, it is necessary to make progress! These “laws ” have a very limited domain. The conservation of energy principle does NOT, N-O-T hold in aspects/situtaions of General Relativity, gets squirely in other situations and does NOT hold at all in the observation of the rapidlty expanding universe! The conservation of energy is a white lie we tell to gradeschool kids. We already live in a universe where energy is NOT conserved ( on the vast cosmic scale. The conservation of energy ( this NUMBER) ONLY holds under time translational invariance, locally. As Urgelt told me years ago, challenging or questioning the first law of themrodynamics does NOT make you a crank. It has its domain of validity, BUT NOT EVERYWHERE – The first law of thermodynamics may even turn out to be a special case scenario one day in the far future as we learn more.
Why does Guyenet treat thermodynamics as sacrosanct???????????? As genuis Paul Lutus notes, the laws of thermodynamics are NOT laws, they are theories. As Weinberg notes, the ONLY time “thermodynamics EVEN applies” to a situation is IF you can deduce them from what you already know about a given system and you always have to ASK WHY they may apply. They do NOT always!
******To QUOTE Steven Weinberg ( a LEGEND- one of the greatest living physicists alive with accomplishments just under Einy:
~~~~~”Thermodynamics, itself, is NEVER the EXPLANATION of anything. You ALWAYS have to ASK WHY thermodynamics applies to the whatever system you happen to be studying. And you do this by DEDUCING THEM from whatever more FUNDAMENTAL PRINCIPLES happen to be relevant to that system. Sometimes they can, sometimes they CAN’T.” ~~~~
The Standard Model and General Relativity are both MORE fundamentals than the “laws” thermodynamics. NOE OF TJHESE ARE LAWS , THEY ARE MODELS, THEORIES , PICTURES AS DAVID GROSS SAYS- FALLIBLE, TENTATIVE. MODIFICATION TO OUR “LAWS” AND EVEN BEING WRONG IS FULLY EXPECTED IN THE FUTURE. Whether it is General Relativty or the conservation of energy etc., they are ALL APPROXIMATIONS. Extraterrestrials could very well, and likely do, have DIFFERENT models than us.
I HOPE LYLE MCDONALD ET AL. HEARD THAT LOUD AND CLEAR from Weinberg’s article called “Can Science Explain Everything, Anything?”!!!!!! LYLE MCDONALD ET AL HAVE BEEN HIJACKING, MUSUSING, MISREPRESENTING AND LYING AND ABUSING PHYSICS FOR YEARRRRRRS!!!!!! I AM HERE TO CALL THEM OUT ON IT, PUBLICLY!!!!! And to add insult to injury, GUYENET is now one of them!!!!!! Oh noes!
The “laws of physics” are NOT restrictions upon the behavior of matter, nor are “sacrosanct rules ” ( extremely important to stresss!) , nor are they mandates from us put upon Nature.
I have talked to world class physicists about this since 2008. A full decade now. I have over 100 e-mails still from them.
For more information Google search this “YouTube Physics Girl Is Energy Always Conserved” ( DOMAIN OF VALIDITY being the key point here). She is BRILLIANT.
Google seach this :”Sean Carroll Energy Is NOT Conserved”
Google search this “David Gross Do The Laws Of Physics Even Exist YouTube”
Also, there are ELITE physicists talking about what I will mention here. Closer To Truth features some interviews. Namely , that recent evidence suggests we will need ENTIRELY NEW physical principles for BIOLOGY ( biological systems ) in order to understand ourselves much better and how we work. This may be even the case for treating or curing diseases. including the disease of obesity. Without NEW principles there may be no cure. This is all uncertain so far, but there is some evdience biological systems need new principles. That the principles we feel apply to the universe and govern tables, galaxies, planets chairs MAY NOT govern BIOLOGY
Until recently, we saw no evdience YET that we needed new laws. But FEYNMAN, being the genuis he was, SAID long ago there is NO reason WHY physics principles “must” apply to or govern life. In other words, it does not “HAVE” to. And, now, it seems to be the case to delve far deeper into biological systems we may need ENTIRELY NEW principles.
THIS very well *MAY* be the case. I tried telling Guyenet, tried extending the olive branch, but this info is LOST on them.
GOOGLE SEARCH: “Closer To Truth How Much MOre To Physuical Reality”
Sorry to write so much.
Go, Razwell, GO!
You know what I had for breakfast, today???
I had an Inverse Fermion omelette that contained Kilowatts, Pounds, Miles, and Gallons!
It gave me lots of “Energy.”
hahaha!
Can you just take a spelling class jesus
Arlen Vernimo,
Relax. If you had read through this entire thread, you would notice that everyone’s posts are understandable/readable regardless of incorrect spelling, grammar or punctuation.
You will note your post has the same issues. If being the grammar police is your self-appointed job, you might want to pause and correct your own errors before sending.
haha – I believe Razzle Dazzle is often posting from a mobile device with its tiny keyboard and microscopic keys.
Can someone help me out, I can’t tell if Razwell believes in the calories in, calories out, model of obesity?
Haha, good one Rosenfelt.
Hi Carl,
LOL @ inverse fermion omelette.
With regard to understanding obesity, we should use a method that is verrrry rare- “retroductive apophatic thinking”. This is the lost art that was employed by peoples such as the Ancient Greeks. Where did genuises such as Plato, Aristotle, Simplicuis get their Ph.D. degrees etc. ? That is what I say to CarbSane.
We should use as many different methods as possible, but CarbSane, Lyle McDonald and Stephan Guyenet (The Taubes Bashers) all employ only deduction and induction in their thinking at best.
Using retroduction is a very powerful method of inquiry and investigation.
Hi, Razwell!
Thanks for mentioning ?retroductive apophatic thinking. That was a term I’d never heard. A quick Google search helped me understand it.
Unknowingly, I believe I’ve occasionally used this type of thinking. Because I often have trouble deciding among many options, I sometimes have to make a list of things I DON’T want, in order to help me clarify what I DO want.
My application may be slightly different than how such thinking might be applied to understanding obesity, but it helps me see some parallels.
“Where did geniuses such as Plato, Aristotle, Simplicius get their Ph.D. degrees?”
True!
I get a lot of my ‘wisdom’ from giants like Comicus, Torquemada, le Gar?on de Pisse, Count de Monet, and Swiftus in Mel Brooks’ 1981 film “History of the World, Part I.”
Carl- If you want to be “blown away” read “The Swerve” by Stephen Greenblatt. These ancient scholars knew a LOT more than we give them credit for! I loved the book…
Thank you for the recommendation, Lianda. I’d not heard of this title. I’ll see if I can find an audio version.
I wonder what the ancient scholars would think of the world, today? What a freakshow.
Wha do all Of the aTaunes bashing gurus (McDonald, Guyenet , Nikoley, Colpo, CarbSane have in common? They all were ONCE low carb to very low carb, they all changed their tune to HIGH carb oit of nowhere and they are all also indirect competition with Gary Taubes. Every one of them knows they are not nearly as famous
.
Urgelt told me years ago that the Internet gurus are a pack of self serving liars and it is extremeky common amomg these sa
scamming types of individuals to do complete 180 degree turnarounds in their messages and act like they never were the opposite ever.
I LOVE sugar as much as the next guy. I never was, nor will ever ne a food snob. My own style of eating feathres probabaly tooooo many days of eating processed stuff, too often. So for me to say this means something. I try to be mkderate, neither very low carb, nor high carb.
There was NO new evidence in the “less than a year ” high carb 180 that Nikoley and Colpo did.
None that they enjoyed GLOSSING OVER to suit whatever rhey were promoting. They were aware of it, they just ignored it amd never mentioned it to readers.
Colpo actually “debunked” the same study that in 2015 era supported back in an obscure 2004 low carb Australia site he wrote for.
There are advantages amd disadvantages to high carb and low carb. But I will say this, high carb is risky, too, perhaos MKRE. Sugary, super carb rich diets are linked to pancreatic cancer. They stress your pancreas and overwork it terribly. Just because keto level low carb is not necessary for many people does not mean we have to go to the other extreme. Our pancreases would nkt be happy. Insulin spiking diets ARE a risk for pancreatic cancer. This SHOULD get everybody’s attention.
All of these “gurus”were once the CHAMPIONS OF LOW CARB. What changed MONEY $$$$. The well dried up for them. That AND the fact that Taubes preached low carb, too, and they knew rhey COULD NOT compete with a guy of hismstature promoting tje same method. So, they did the OPPOSITE. Colpo was low carb in summer 2007 then in the fall im ediate turn aroumd a “180” LOL. Colpo is nkw an extreme high carb zealot. Well, he is tempting pancreatic cancer. People never think of this! Pancreatic is among the hardest to treat.
I remmber Nikoley once really bashed Mayo Clinic dieticians because they were anti Atkins etc. His post still might be up from 2008 ish , he threw some F missles and profanity at them. Now Nikoley is saying EVERYTHING the Mayo Clinic dieticians said that he BASHED them for,
Yeah, you’re absolutely right, their diets change every 2-3 years, and every single time they believe that the research supports their new diet.
Awesome, Carl. I enjoy learning from you, too! : ) Retroductuve thinking is great. Here is an example: A needle is thrown in a haystack. Induction etc. would nit be the efficient approach. Retroduction would be-the needle is metal, so we should set fire to it all and the needle will be left.
Right now I am watching the Rockets. I am seeing the Warriors air ball-Two in this game so far. Curry cannot defend a lamppost, I dislike that dude, his spoiled brat 7th grwde sissy non-chalant attitude. I know the focus , aggression and tenacity and will of the 1997 Bulls would destroy that fake , soft Warrior team. If modern teams can beat them and expose their softness, 1998 Bulls would totally break them down.Jordan was a million times more mentally tough than Wardell Curry. M.J. as he matured may have beaten 1986 Celtics. I respected Bird. Larry Legend would agree come Finals time , Jordan represented the highest standards of basketball excellence. That man bled passi8n for the game. It shined through. His fundamentals were second to noone.Total respect for M.J.
Brain dump…
1.) I found another of your devotees:
“The Eat as Much as Possible Diet
The diet I lay out below allows maximum calorie consumption with minimal body fat gain. Because basic biological functions (brain, heart, liver) are all satisfied, the body has a surplus of energy for peripheral circulation, hair growth, nails, skin, higher pulse rate, youth hormone formation, and personality. This warm, life-giving environment facilitates repair, rebuilding and laying down new healthy tissue.”
http://thelastcanary.blogspot.com/2013/07/the-eat-as-much-as-possible-diet.html
That was almost five years ago, though. I wonder if/how his perspective has changed?
————————————-
2.) After stumbling-upon the following website, due to something unrelated, I happened to find the following article:
Is There One True Diet?
http://www.kimwrate.com/One-True-Diet.html
Kim mentions that she studied diet “…in-depth for the last three weeks.” :-) In the article, she invokes – among other things – Denise Minger’s “In Defense of Low Fat” talk from a few years ago.
In Defense of Low Fat
https://youtu.be/qBBtQ4QwWxg t=32m11s
https://www.dietdoctor.com/in-defense-of-low-fat-denise-minger-vs-dr-fung
https://deniseminger.com/2015/10/06/in-defense-of-low-fat-a-call-for-some-evolution-of-thought-part-1/
One of the main points is the “macronutrient swamp.”
“…Denise talks about how there seems to be macronutrient magic zones. On one side of the spectrum, the magic zone is when a maximum of 10% of the calories you consume come from fat, and most of the rest come from carbohydrates. On the other side of the spectrum, the magic zone is when a minimum of 65% of the calories you consume come from fat.
In between those macronutrient magic zones, there lies a macronutrient swamp. This is where the conflict between fats and carbohydrates occurs.”
So, maybe that’s why Low-Fat *AND* Ketogenic camps are “right.”
————————————-
3. While making a lap around the Interwebs, I found this:
How to Change Your Body Weight Set Point
https://www.muscleforlife.com/body-weight-set-point
How could I not click on THAT title? But, admittedly, I’ve not read it. I intended to, but the article disappeared into the dozen-or-so open tabs in Google Chrome.
(I just saved it to my Desktop, so I’ll actually read it.)
————————————-
4. Finally, in a weekly e-mail newsletter that I received yesterday, there was an article about butter/fat.
Butter Is Back. Or, Is It?
https://www.dropbox.com/s/l10dn882xohwj09/ButterIsBack-OrIsIt.pdf?dl=0
I’m sure you’ve read Esselstyn, Campbell, McDougall, Ornish, etc., in your broad and deep research. What was your opinion of their evidence?
Interestingly, while many of the plant-based doctors still advocate low-fat, Michael Greger has stated that macronutrient ratios don’t matter. He’s even stated that high-fat is fine, provided it’s from whole plant foods. Joel Fuhrman has also stated that people should probably not eat too low fat.
Okay, that’s it.
Good night.
I’m VERY compelled by the ultra low fatters. Of course, they all tend to be vegans, which is probably not necessary and probably slightly harmful, especially if continued long-term. It’s also probably not good to stay ultra low fat (below 10%) long-term, especially once you’ve lost all your body fat.
I find it most compelling because it seems to be a way that people can actually lose weight without getting cold and having their genitals go into hibernation. It can also serve to eliminate a lot of stored PUFA. I think vegans who advocate higher fat from nuts, seeds, and avocado are making a huge mistake. That’s why there’s so much backlash by the lowfat vegan community against “gourmet raw” and other high-fat vegan versions. I think plant fats suck ass (except for tropical plant fats). Look at the difference in Lissa on high-fat raw vegan vs. 10% fat raw vegan. Holy shit what a difference. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nPusa-JJV8k
Agreed. I’ve been thinking more about ultra-low-fat, for temporary, therapeutic purposes.
Remember the “Newcastle Diet” from Newcastle University in the U.K.
“Promising research from a University of Newcastle team suggests that Type 2 diabetes can be cured in just eight weeks by diet alone. CURED. Their protocol is known to be effective in subjects who have had diabetes for up to 10 years, and they are optimistic about it working for some who have had the disease even longer.
The short term, very-low calorie diet was initially designed to mimic the rapid reduction of calorie intake that results from bariatric surgery?which is known to be effective in reversing diabetes very quickly. In 2011, the Newcastle researchers conducted their first study using the diet, and the results were impressive.
Participants who had diabetes for 4 years or less were placed on an 800-calorie diet. Daily food intake was limited to three liquid meal replacements (totaling 600 calories) and three servings of non-starchy vegetables (totaling 200 calories).
After 1 week:
* Pre-breakfast blood-sugar (fasting plasma glucose) levels returned to normal and stayed normal for the remainder of the study.
* Glucose production from the liver decreased, while the liver’s insulin sensitivity increased significantly.
By the end of the study:
* Fat levels in the liver and pancreas dropped
* Pancreatic functioning was restored to normal with regards to glucose sensitivity and insulin secretion.
* Average weight loss was 33 lbs (15.3 kg), which represented about 15% of initial bodyweight.
Four weeks after the study ended, average weight gain was about 6.6 lbs (3.1 kg), but normal liver and pancreas functioning continued for 7 out of the 11 participants in the low-calorie group of the study. These participants effectively reversed their type 2 diabetes status.”
https://www.ncl.ac.uk/magres/research/diabetes/reversal/#publicinformation
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3168743
Matt, can you explain why ultra lowfat is bad for lean people? Also why it might be good for fat individuals? Is it because blubbery people usually are less insulin sensitive from the randle cycle?
Like Zach has said earlier, the body needs a certain amount of fat for basic functions. When you have excess body fat, that fat comes from your stored fat. When you’re lean, if you’re not eating any fat, and you don’t have any stored fat to spare, you potentially could run into a fat shortage, or start converting a lot more carbohydrates to fat, neither of which I suspect are desirable. That’s purely theoretical, and an idea only. But it is one potential explanation for why many seem to do so well on an ultra low-fat diet for a few years (talking about the 5% fat vegans out there on YouTube, of which there are thousands), and then eventually end up losing their minds and looking like scaly lizard people, lol.
Scaly lizard people sounds like a pretty accurate description, haha. Speaking of ultra low fatter using its own body fat, what if the stored fat is mostly PUFA? Isn’t it toxic for the body to utilize those fats for functions? Or maybe it excretes the PUFA through glucuronidation with high performing liver functions?
I have said it in other threads but I can’t actually go back to zero fat anymore, my body doesn’t respond the same. I definitely need fat now that I’m as lean as I am. Most likely it’s because glycogen is not enough fuel alone, saturated fat is a constant back up. I’m not storing fat so I must be burning it like crazy.
I actually really like coconut, cocoa and olive fats for health. They all seem to have individual health promoting factors. The flip side is avacado, nuts and seed fats, they seem to be absolutely detrimental to health, they are hibernation foods.
Thanks for sharing your thoughts Zach. So if nuts and seed oils are detrimental and causes negative effects, your body somehow got rid of any stored PUFA instead of burning it regarding the positive outcomes of ultra low fat you’ve experienced right? Just like young women that eliminate their excessive estrogen through good liver function, perhaps having a high metabolism allows the body to handle PUFAs much better.
Burning PUFA as energy is a safe way of elimination, it’s when large amounts of PUFA are liberated through stress hormones that trouble occurs. I believe that eating a zero fat diet allows excess fat to be burned for normal bodily functions and the high calories and carbs keep things anabolic at the same time. So basically you are losing fat while not being catabolic, something that most diet gurus say is impossible.
Hmm, sounds interesting. Assuming that your body exclusively got rid of fat and was in an anabolic process, did you retain all of the lean masses (maybe muscle is the most obvious one)? Did your vascularity go up as well? I might try this low fat regime while doing some low volume weight training so that when I lean out I’ll look a little muscular or something.
Carbs are protein sparing and I ate around 90g a day of protein so no I didn’t lose any muscle mass, in fact I think I looked better but that could have just been the leanness. I have pictures in some thread on RPF. Vascular, yes. One of the biggest positive changes was vascularity and blood flow.
I just looked up some google images on RPF with your name on it (I don’t have RPF account and seems like I cannot open uploaded files directly) and saw a photo of a tattooed guy flexing his left arm. Is that you? If it is, dang you look pretty lean. And if that’s achievable for me (5?7, 230lbs) then I’ll definitely try out your strategy, assuming there’s no drop in metabolism. I know of another guy who leaned out pretty well using low fat high carb/sugar while staying warm with good aesthetics so hopefully there’s something to it.
To be honest, I really hate calories in calories out because of the amount of people that are negatively affected by it. Literally I hear some random people talking about they eat too much and have to cut down calories and carbs to lose weight. I really need to prove these people their dieting strategy doesn’t work in the long run and there’s a better way.
Yes that’s me.
Honestly you look really good in terms of your leanness. I was wondering if losing fat in a higher metabolism will leave me with a bit of flab and make me look mediocre but it seems like that’s not the case. Hope I can get lean like that.
By the way, how was your physique when you were at 220lbs? Did you have a lot of visceral fats (typical beer gut) or subcutaneous fats, or even both? I seem to have both, probably somewhere around 30-32percent body fat.
Hey thanks!
At 220 high had fat all over, it was definitely estrogenic fat and accumulated a lot of chest, butt and legs. I didn’t have a beer belly or hard fat. Very soft and feminine. I was highly estrogenic from a zero carb diet. So much for carnivore being associated with testosterone.
Your welcome :),I mean how could this not be awesome when tons of diet gurus tell you leanness is achievable only by brute caloric deficit (or low carb, paleo, IF, blah blah..)? I’ve once looked like you a few years ago with caloric deficit, maybe a bit less lean mass, and the side effect was crazy. Mood swings were insane, no sex drive, constipation was normal, always had freezing cold hands and feet, despite everyone complimented me for the physique and having a visible abs. If you can get lean without those terrible symptoms then that’s probably the holy grail of fat loss.
I’d also say that my visceral fat is not as high as someone that has developed a severe beer gut. I sometimes see people with a really, really big abdomen like that of a sumo wrestler’s, and it’s so bad that I totally look normal compared to them. Like you, a lot of my fat goes around the chest, abdomen (subcutaneous), butt and legs. It’s pretty annoying because I have to wear large sized clothes that make me look so dorky.
Hahaha, I totally hear you on the big clothes thing, when I dropped to size 30 jeans and small r shirts at 160/5,11 I couldn’t believe it. Not even in high school was I that lean. True fat loss shapes your body how it is supposed to look.
Hey T.J, I totally feel you man! I did a really strict diet 2-3 years ago with brute caloric deficit, cardio, boxing and IF, and these totally screwed up my metabolism! It wasn’t until I felt so heavy around the chest during a morning walk while fasting and drinking black coffee that made me worry about the daily routine I was practicing. Felt like absolutely nothing but crap though everyone praised me for the awesome, gaunt looks lol. If you are trying ultra low fat, please keep us updated!
Hey Zach, so here’s my current progress in ultra low fat diet: Good sex drive, good bowel movements, good mood (while everyone around me tends to get so cranky, haha), good food intake (around 3700-4000kcals mostly from carbs). Seems like the body comp hasn’t changed yet, but it’s definitely not getting worse either. Lemme ask you one thing, did you immediately start losing fat after eating low fat high carb? Or was it slow-ish in the beginning and gradually accelerated towards the end of the experiment?
Juan, It was slow at first and after a month or two it seemed I dropped fat overnight.
What’s your food choices look like right now?
Zach, I usually eat huge amount of rice as a staple for carbs along with a quart+ of fruit juice every day. Much of the protein comes from the starches, but I throw in some skimmed milk, zero fat yogurt, and some seafood (scallops, shrimps, cods, etc) to add extra bulk to the P intake. Fats are mostly from the carbs I eat, but I take 2grams of coconut oil. The Macro ratio looks like: P=10% F=6% C=84%
Yeah I’ve been thinking of Hunter gatherers past and present, and if you think about it, they eat low fat high carb most of the day (tubers, fruits that we’re gathered), then when they succeed in a hunt, they eat a protein and fat meal. Also, I don’t buy the Paleo and now carnivore fantasy of them successfully landing a kill EVERY day, so some days there would be no meat, only low fat carbs.
I like Minger’s metabolic swamp idea, but the skeptic in me says “meh, it’s probably just calorie restriction, since both low fat and keto cut out entire macros.” I’m torn on the subject macro ratios. It always seems to bomb in RCTs too…
Just read the link about Dr Fungs response. The metabolic swamp is also the high food reward area! Well I’ll be damned.
Interesting brain dump, Carl :)
I read some on thelastcanary and will read more….
but the muscleforlife (How to change your set point) dude seems to advocate cutting calories pretty drastically and doing lots of high-intensity aerobics and weights. And he talks a lot about his books. One woman on there posted that she eats 1,400 calories a day and does all kinds of CrossFit stuff, hiking, etc. and can’t lose weight. I think he told her to train harder — and buy more of his books. lol
Hey, turtlegurl:
I probably need a vacation from health websites. Except for this one, of course. :)
Thank you for the review of the MuscleForLife website. You did me a great service, as I just deleted the link to the article – which, I’d still not read. If he’s into “Eat Less and Move More,” then I’ll pass. So, thank you.
As much as I’ve recently been bashing ketogenic diets, I’m starting to reconsider that a short-term, cyclic ketogenic diet might be worth trying. But, I’m also interested in the idea of a short-term, ultra-low-fat approach, too.
Either in the comments of this article or a previous article, I believe I mentioned Penn Jillette’s weight loss. He shed 105 pounds in 86 days.
He started with a two-week mono diet of only potatoes. The first week, he was not permitted (by his diet gurur Ray Cronise) to add anything to them. In the second week, though, I think he was allowed to add hot sauce. Then, it slowly progressed from there, adding-in things like corn and other foods.
Over a period of weeks, Penn was able to reset his taste buds, since he no longer slathered fat and salt on everything. He said plain corn on the cob tasted like candy.
I have the audio version of the book (which Penn narrates) and I found it really entertaining. It’s informative and funny. Penn calls Ray Cronise “Cray Ray” and refers to Dr. Joel Fuhrman as “Furburger.”
The muscleforlife thing gets even worse. That woman doing all the CrossFit, etc. is only eating 1,200 calories a day (I accidentally wrote 1,400).
He might have some useful information, but his site is so heavy with manipulative marketing that it’s hard to know. In addition to his books, he also sells supplements and a 90-day program with one of his coaches — he’d love to help you himself, of course, but he’s just much too busy! (we’re supposed to interpret that as “successful”). The 90-day program is $1,997, which seems shocking — but he talks in detail about why this is such a phenomenal deal for you. You’re supposed to be grateful you’re getting this for only $2K. I mean, LESS THAN $2K! About what you’re paying for your daily cup of coffee!
Yes, I can vouch for how it doesn’t take long for your taste receptors to become resensitized. I ate a VERY simple, low-fat diet at home for a few weeks and went to Carrabba’s. I couldn’t believe all the flavors in the olive oil! There were like dozens of flavors I have never tasted in there before.
Not sure if you remember, but I wrote about the changes I experienced when I was starving out in the wilderness eating only 3 foods many years ago. By the end of the 44-day adventure I was obsessed with oatmeal. I was certain I was going to eat it every day for the rest of my life. But after returning to variety I tried the same oatmeal with excitement but could hardly eat it. It tasted like paper mache or something! Yet a week earlier I was literally eating raw oats out of the bag and having to exert willpower not to eat too many, haha. We are such fascinatingly adaptable creatures.
Carl, thanks for linking to Schlegel’s post about the “High Everything Diet.” A similar version of his post was actually included in the 180DegreeHealth January 2014 newsletter (search “180 Reader Scott Schlegel”) where he includes a screenshot from his Cronometer account listing his foods consumed for a sample day.
I think there’s a lot here that should be explored. Unfortunately it seems that ‘proper’ nutrition is nowadays conceived of through a lens of restriction, rather than abundance. It ignores the perspective of Ray Peat that greater energy generates greater/more complex structure. It’s noticeable in all the fad diets but even the therapeutic diets as well. I wonder how much of this is due to the long-lasting Puritan/ascetic influence separating foods in moral categories: good foods, vs bad foods, good restriction of foods, bad indulgence of foods.
But clearly this paradigm doesn’t work. I wish the findings from the Minnesota Starvation Experiment weren’t so ignored or so dismissed. The men ate freely – and recovered faster! Their bodies dictated the amount of calories needed (at least 4000 after famine, but going over 6000 for stretches of time by some). Gwenyth Olwyn has tried to show the same thing in her work helping people with eating disorders, and I think Matt’s work also leads to this freer, more energetic and creative way of being.
People have this inculcated reaction to fear calories which is only a step away from fearing food in general. But to fear food, as a human, is to fear our basic source of energy. I really worry about whether a general disordered eating perspective is becoming the new normal due to this paradigm of restriction.
inquiring mind,
Thanks for letting me know about the January 2014 Newsletter featuring Scott Schlegel. I’ll definitely check it out. It was obvious that Scott was a 180D fan.
I definitely agree with your observations that “proper” nutrition is currently viewed through a lens of restriction. It has been my personal experience that these restrictive diets (Low-Carb, Paleo, Ketogenic, Vegan, Fruitarian, etc.) lead to fear and disordered eating. I was definitely one of them. I still struggle, albeit a bit less.
With the Vegan advocates like John McDougall, Caldwell Esselstyn, Neal Barnard, Pam Popper, and Jeff Novick (as a few examples), though, they are convinced of their proof that such restrictions extend life and provide for better health outcomes.
Caloric restriction, we’ve heard over-and-over, leads to longer lives. Reduce calories by 30% and increase lifespan by 30%. I think that was an actual statistic, though it’s probably not a linear relationship along the entire continuum. And, I think those numbers may be for animal experiments in a lab.
Of course, it’s not just Vegans that have a story to tell.
Each dietary camp has their pet figures, studies, anecdotes, etc. that seems to support their view. In many cases, for any study one group can produce to support their claims, another group can produce a counter-study showing the opposite. I was guilty of parroting statements that I never personally verified myself. “But, the Inuit…” “Correlation is not causation.” “There is no dietary requirement for carbohydrate.”
So, what do people do?
Well, they either: (1) hop from diet to diet, (2) try to figure-out the “truth” for themselves, or (3) throw-up their hands and do whatever they want. Depending on the day you ask me, I’m doing one of these three.
I’ll admit that the aforementioned Vegan authors seem to convince me more than others. But, I also have to admit I don’t read the “studies” they cite. Well, I don’t read studies that ANYONE cites, regardless of the diet camp from which it originates. Why? Two reasons: First, I’m not sure for what I should be looking. Second, I’m not sure how much faith I put in “studies.”
[NOTE: Approximately 17.3% of statistics are made-up.]
I know that Denise Minger has critiqued/criticized Dr. T. Colin Campbell’s book THE CHINA STUDY. I’ve read some of her critiques, but it’s dense reading (or, I’m dense) and I find it difficult to follow. I’ve also read some of Dr. Campbell’s rebuttals.
Even when I was following a Primal-ish/Low-ish-Carb diet, I was frequently listening to podcasts, reading blogs, and listening to audiobooks, of ALL diet types, because I was afraid of being wrong.
Currently, some eight years later, I almost wish I’d never become interested in “health.”
[Really, my troubles started in 1999, with Bill Phillips’ book BODY-FOR-LIFE. I drank his shitty Myoplex shakes, too. Thanks for the migraines, Bill, you dick.]
Anyway, while I doubt that a small amount of animal-based foods are going to kill me, I’ve been trying to figure-out what that amount might be. Or, whether or not it really matters. This is where I’m stuck. Do I… Listen to the thin (sometimes emaciated-looking) authors who *seem* to have compelling “science” behind them? Or, listen to the butter-eaters that seem happier and more aesthetically pleasing (fuller figure) but may drop dead from a heart attack? Bob Harper, anyone?
But, of course, it’s not that simple.
As we all know, there’s always more to the story. Genetics play some part. Stress levels matter (obsessively researching “health” is definitely UN-healthy), quantity and quality of sleep, exercise, gut bacteria, and health issues like chronic diseases and infections.
History matters, too. How bad and how long have I been wrecking my body? Age is a huge one, too, I think. Look at all the 20-somethings with their glistening abs who just “know” that the combination of the Paleo diet and CrossFit was the answer. Until, of course, they drive their adrenals into the shitter.
Fortunately, I was able to get over the Lectin Hysteria that Stephen Gundry started.
However, a lot of things are still cloudy for me. Is it really black-and-white and I’m missing something? I would love for this to be the case, so I could get “THE” answer and move-on with my life. But, sadly, I stress about eating on a DAILY basis. Even on a PER-MEAL basis. My ideas about what’s “right” and “wrong” change with the wind, depending on what I’m reading at any given moment. It’s exhausting.
I’m envious of Angelo Coppola and how he concluded what was the right thing to do, he lost all his extra weight, then he stopped blogging and podcasting, and left all this shit behind him.
http://www.humansarenotbroken.com/about/plant-paleo
As a listener, I was with him through the whole journey, through his first podcast THIS WEEK IN PALEO and then his second and final podcast LATEST IN PALEO.
Now, 18 months after Angelo vanished, I’m still here, stuck in analysis paralysis, not making any progress or any firm conclusions.
Maybe there’s simply no “Dietary Theory of Everything.”
Your ideas of what’s right and wrong change according to what you’re currently reading lol, I can definitely relate to that!
It’s frustrating, right? Maybe we should start a club. And, by “club,” maybe that really means a 12-Step program. haha
We’ll need our own version of the Serenity Prayer.
Here’s one possibility: “God, grant me the serenity to accept my body/health in its current state, the courage to not do any more fad diets, and the wisdom to know when to say “I’m gonna need a lot of ice cream”.
(Clearly, I need this prayer, as I’m currently doing ultra-low fat and am probably going to eliminate Vitamin A. Carl, when is the next meeting?!)
turtlegurl,
Love the prayer! Amen!
The next meeting of Confused Dieters Anonymous (CDA) will be at Ben & Jerry’s on Friday night at 7:30 PM.
It’s BYOB: Bring Your Own Bib
Ooohh, man. Look at this:
https://www.foodandwine.com/slideshows/best-ice-cream-spots-in-the-us
…and, this:
https://www.foodandwine.com/slideshows/doughnuts
Carl — re: the CDA meeting on Friday: I’ll be there! I’ll pack my bib now.
The password is “I.L.I.C.K.” (I Like Ice Cream Kones)
I think this post from Matt is bringing out the obsessive nature of what we are choosing to eat. I’m wondering how many people would be trying these different suggestions if they were naturally slender, or at least not what you judge yourself as: not “perfect” ? Is all of this really about health or about weight?
And further, what would you be eating if you weren’t concerned about your appearance? Do you really think that if you didn’t have a concern about your weight, and if you could eat anything you wanted (like my friend Yolanda who eats like a Sumo wrestler and never gains an ounce) that you would be obsessing about Vit. A, fats in your food, or anything else?
And finally, if people never listened to diet advice, never dieted, never called one food “good” and another “bad”, never listened to another person’s judgment about how you look (and never judged yourself) – would you be your natural weight and HAPPY?
Lianda — I can only speak for myself, but I’m in it for health. I’m not currently overweight but am overfat and probably have lots of stored toxins.
I have multiple autoimmune conditions that seriously compromise my energy level and my ability to do many “normal” things like grocery shopping and fixing decent meals, so eating probably requires more focus for me than it does for a healthy person. I wish that weren’t the case.
I’ve been sick for a very, very long time and have tried zillions of things. And because being passive or resigned isn’t my personality style, I will keep trying things that might help me get better — things like ultra-low fat and reducing/eliminating Vitamin A.
@turtlegurl- I dieted myself to fat. I was a thin youth and later – but thought maybe I could make certain parts smaller (without losing where I wanted it). I was never happy with my body…. And I became a chronic serial dieter. I believe that my dislike of my body resulted in Hashimoto’s- an autoimmune disease.
I was physically active- the exact opposite of my mother, who never dieted. And we ended up in the same place.
So I wonder…. can you escape your destiny?
Thought-provoking comments, as always, Lianda.
Speaking only for myself, my original foray into “diet” was definitely ONLY about how I looked. I was around 31, at the time. My only thoughts about food were: “How long before I can eat again?” and “What’s for dessert?”
And, not always in that order. :-)
By the time I was 40, my focus shifted to be more about “health,” but I was still very much interested in reducing body fat.
Then, five years later, I got sick. At that point, my primary concern became how to get better. Eventually, I attributed a large part of my illness to my stupid dietary escapades. But, of course, it’s impossible to know all the contributing factors and how much of a role each played.
Today, another five years later, I still struggle with my health. This is what fuels my binge-watching YouTube videos, listening to podcasts, attending online “Summits” for various things like Lyme Disease, the Immune System, various Diets, Fasting, and Detoxing, to name a few.
I’m only about 10-15 pounds over-fat. Would I like to slim-down further? Sure. But, I’m much more interested to know what are truly the best foods for long-term health.
But, I also believe this is unknowable, unless I spend lots of time trying various foods in varying ratios and keep journals and track certain biomarkers. And, I just don’t want to do so.
Thus, I keep hoping someone will capture the magical health unicorn and be able to coax from it the universal secrets of diet and health.
As a kid, I certainly never dieted. Yet, I was always a bit overweight. I played football, basketball, rode my bicycle and motorcycles, climbed trees, baled hay, helped build fences and corrals, took care of the animals on our farm, ran, played frisbee, ate whatever I wanted (well, at least whatever I wanted that was in the house), and slept like the dead. I certainly didn’t think about my body composition or even give my physique a second look. So, of course, I realize that it’s more than just food and self-image that leads to overweight. I certainly don’t know ALL the factors, but I know it’s more than just food and self-image.
Like turtlegurl, I believe there is likely a toxin (or, toxicant, to be precise) burden from the various exposures I’ve had over the years. Particularly from my time in the military, but outside the military, too. Several Integrative and Functional Medicine doctors have supported this idea, due to my migraines and multiple chemical sensitivities, to name a few symptoms. Both blood and hair analysis seem to further indicate some metals and chemicals like Methyl Tert-Butyl Ether (MTBE).
Their suggestion was to try oral/IV chelation, using DMSA, EDTA, or DMPS. The stuff I read about DMPS concerned me, so I sorta scrapped the idea of using any of those three chelating agents. Then, I’d considered Zeolites, but that’s yet another contentious product. So, again, I did nothing.
Some believe eating high-fiber foods will help bind toxins/toxicants for expulsion. But, in order to do so, the compounds must first be mobilized. That, of course, means losing fat, as fat is one of the places the body sequesters toxicants.
Some believe that foods like Cilantro, Spirulina, and Chlorella (among others) will bind heavy metals. But, others say they are weak chelators, at best. At worst, they may end-up releasing the metals into general circulation and they could wind-up in the brain, bone, or other places.
With all that stated, my concern is primarily about getting well. Aesthetics is certainly a part, but it’s a very minor part. In fact, I think if I can get healthy, one of the natural side-effects will be obtaining a more optimal body composition. But, maybe not. Health first, everything else is further down the list.
@Lianda: I get what you’re saying but I was already obese and already had an eating disorder (binge eating) before I even did my first diet. I’m not after god like looks. I’m supposed to be 165 pounds, but I would be ecstatic with 190 or even 200. And I want to stop feeling like shit 24/7.
@Skeptic- I’m writing this to myself, but you can listen in: My heart hurts to read your response. And this is what I’ve found, and believe: if no one ever hurt you (abuse, humiliation, neglect) before the age of 6 (ACE study); if there was no genetic or epigenetic reason that you gained “excessive” weight – and no one ever made you feel different and unattractive, would you still feel like shit when you look in the mirror? Probably not.
And, since everything I read says when you play around with dieting you have a 95% chance of regaining the weight PLUS additional ‘insurance’ pounds, and only a 5% chance of being that unicorn Matt writes about – is it worth it to bother trying to lose weight?
Negative self-talk is like the opposite of a placebo that cures: it’s a NOcebo that probably is keeping you chronically stressed and unhappy.
Not that this is the same, but if someone loses a hand, and they were a famous concert pianist, should they hate themselves, or instead find another way to live their purpose in life?
I hate it that we’ve been conditioned as humans to need to be like others: to look the same, wear the same style of clothes, use the same types of expressions in our conversations, etc. It’s hard to break free of that, but it’s the only way you will live a joyful life.
I’ve been working on myself to do just that – and I do still slip and feel bad about my weight- but I use EFT tapping to lessen those negative feelings. I replace the negative self-talk with positive thoughts- and I’m eating food that I enjoy – not too much, and not too little. Enough. I am enough…. And if someone doesn’t like me, or judges me- it’s about THEM, not me.
(read the novel: Dietland, by Sarai Walker)
Those people are shallow and mean- and I don’t want to be in their club, even if I was back wearing a size 8 again.
Oh I had adverse childhood experiences alright lol. Let’s just say I had a violent alcoholic father and leave it at that.
Hi, Lianda:
After reading your recent post Skeptic, I’m curious about your work with clients.
Much of the writing/tone on your website makes me think you get/attract a lot of folks who are dealing with emotional issues — whether weight-/body-related or not.
Is that a fair assessment?
How do you measure “success,” with regard to your clients?
* Loss of body fat?
* Accepting their body “as-is”?
* Improved biomarkers from lab tests?
* Conquering food fears?
* Improving self-image?
* Others?
* All/none of these?
And, how successful are you? Or, perhaps, how successful do your clients feel?
“Enquiring minds want to know!”
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2r3Xs9sBEVg
@Carl Spackler- LOL- I remember that ad about inquiring minds!
Thanks for asking…. these issues are near and dear to my heart, as I was my own first client. I was never happy with my appearance- no matter how thin I was. I say now, “I wish I was the weight I was when I first thought I needed to diet!” And yes, it would be nice to be thinner- I’d be faster on the tennis court– but I’m still going to be happy even if I’m not!
I teach EFT tapping (which is now showing up in research as improving cortisol levels!) – gentle yoga, and HeartMath. I also do my best to remove any self-blame about why someone gained weight in the first place. I explain how we’ve all been ?gaslighted? by the Diet Industry to blame ourselves for diet failure, so they can make more money. I also see this is a feminist issue ? but more men are falling for the same lies about overweight making you sick. Only emotionally sick – imo!
There are coaches who are promising weight loss with EFT (emotional freedom technique)- but no one reports if the weight stayed off long term- which is the real measure of actual success of weight loss. Some people will lose weight, some will not. The jury is out. And when I hear those coaches talking about ?not eating a cookie?, I get disgusted because they are missing the point. I believe that too many people don’t eat enough (dieting)! The question is: does EFT work because it lowers cortisol levels? Or is it because someone is not stressed out as much using comfort food as way to deal with stress? Or is it something else entirely?!
Success is something that each individual has to assess for themselves. For me, it’s about finding inner peace with “what is”…. I am very careful to make sure that people understand I cannot “make them “lose weight.
Improved self-image? At least getting to neutral about our body is important. The most important thing we can all achieve in life is self-compassion and self-acceptance. We must all learn to be the best parent to ourselves that we could have wished for. You may not get what you want in life- and accepting and dealing with “what is” will at least give you the best chance at happiness.
I encourage my clients to find what they will DO for stress relief – and do it! And, that does help. I hope that answers your questions. ????
Thank you, Lianda. Your reply was, indeed, helpful.
In fact, I plan to send a friend the link to your website. At a minimum, I believe she will find it worth reading. She’s maintained a 100+ pound weight loss, but through counting calories.
Now, I’ve not read/watched/listened to all the health-related items you have. I’ve not pursued an education, training, or certifications in health. My background is in electronics/computers, so, regarding the topic of health, I’m a layperson.
That disclaimer stated, you seemed to indicate, in your last note, that people becoming sick due to being overweight is a lie? That, perhaps, they might only become emotionally sick?
Can you clarify any misunderstanding on my part? Or, if I have it correct, would you mind expanding upon the matter?
I’m thinking of diseases like Type 2 Diabetes. I recently read about a man who is obese (morbidly obese?) that had both legs amputated below the knee, due to his Type 2 Diabetes.
Is there truly “Health At EVERY Size”?
@Carl Spackler – I’ve discovered that 10% of the people who Diabetes Type 2 are thin! The best treatment for the disease seems to be exercise and stress relief.
Yes, being overweight is condition that causes self-hatred and low self-esteem because of society’s denigration of heavier people, which is still socially acceptable. There is great prejudice against heavier people who have trouble finding good paying jobs ? and that just makes things worse by increasing stress!
How many comedians make fun of fat people? I’ve heard stories of people screaming curses out of their car windows at fat people. How can you have a good day after that? But heavier people are starting to speak up and stand up for themselves.
Read Paul Campos book: The Obesity Myth to see how we’ve been lied to about overweight as the cause of diseases. Although I don’t have the book in front of me, I remember reading that people who are up to about 75 pounds overweight will live longer than someone 5 pounds UNDER-weight ? according to actuary tables from insurance companies! Linda Bacon also has great information about actual health and weight myths.
Check out this abbreviated version of identical twins doctors who did a comparison of eating either fat or sugar?. https://youtu.be/U1f9g9Y1wm0 Fascinating results ? but a N=2.
The bottom line is: we know very little about a perfect diet for health. And we know even less about what anyone can do to sustain weight loss. Despite our weight, we deserve to be treated humanely. And the first one who needs to treat us with that kind compassion is ourselves! ????
Lol I actually did have a passing car yell insults at me once. Good times.
Hi again, Lianda.
And, thank you, again, for the thoughtful responses to my questions. I promise to stop bugging you, now.
:-)
I certainly did not know that 10% of the people who have Type 2 Diabetes (T2D) are thin. As for treating T2D, in addition to the “Newcastle Diet” I mentioned somewhere in these 600+ comments (!), there’s also the Fasting-Mimicking Diet (FMD) that I believe was created by Professor Valter Longo. It seems losing a certain about of intra-abdominal fat (for the 90% who are NOT thin) around the pancreas will, in some cases, allow the organ to start working properly again. But, you’re likely aware of both plans.
As for the denigration of heavier people, yes, I can definitely see how society wrongly tolerates it. I also realize that heavier people are at a disadvantage in a variety of situations — jobs, salaries, dating, and, sadly, being bullied.
You’re right about comedians, too. I remember watching a Louis C.K. comedy special, a year or two ago, and he was ridiculing himself about being overweight. But, at the time, I never considered how that could be hurting other folks who are actually investing time, attention, and money into their health pursuits, but not reaching their goals.
The idea of people screaming curses out of their car windows at heavy people is heartbreaking and infuriating. God knows I’m far from perfect, but I cannot imagine doing something so reprehensible.
I’ll definitely look into obtaining an audio copy of Paul Campos’ book “The Obesity Myth.” Thank you for mentioning it. I’ve heard Matt mention his name, as well as Linda Bacon. Speaking of verbal abuse, I’d be willing to bet Linda has received hell for her name.
The point about folks being up to around 75 pounds OVERweight and living longer than someone 5 pounds UNDERweight is interesting. But, of course, I wouldn’t plan on gaining 75 pounds in hopes of living longer. I’m sure the devil is in the details.
I saw the original show on the BBC, regarding those twin doctors in Britain. Actually, I’ve watched many BBC documentaries on health — many featuring Michael Mosley — and I equate many of them with Dr. Oz.
Ultimately, I guess the answer is to keep trying things, making good notes, and doing more of what works and less of what doesn’t. But, I just really don’t want to do that! :-)
Skeptic,
For what it’s worth, I’m really sorry for the abusive, shitty situations you’ve endured. Obviously, none of it was your fault and none of it was deserved. While my thoughts on the subject may be of little consolation or importance, it’s still worth mentioning. You’re a likable guy and I always enjoy our exchanges. I wish there was a 180D conference, in order to meet everyone in person.
Thanks Carl. I roll with the punches, it’s not a big deal. While psychology can certainly play a role in obesity, after you get there, the solution is going to be in biochemistry. It is what it is.
The biggest mistake I made back in the 2007 era was eating one meal a day. Starving ourselves just leads to muscle being ravaged. This way of eating damaged my body and metabolism and even likely led to mild subclinical hypothyroidism in 2008.
Pilon has been doing his schtick for yesrs. Berkhan was a bit of an ass, very pompous guy who do not receive information well. Namely, when I (politely) e-mailed him and let him know “calories” were invented fiction, nothing special. I talked with him in 2014 and he was interested in some other obesity related tidbit of info I relayed at the time. But he apparently is in love with a totally invented abstraction. LOL! Martin has gotten strong over the years (I suspect drugs) He and Brett Contreras are probably the only Internet guys a little stronger than I. In my prime I was quite strong. I lifted heavy was age 19, 15 years ago. I think heavy squats are terrible for the spine. I do think I am much more athletic than these gurus. But Berkan,as strong as he has become in the deadlift and otger lifts, he would not even rank, nor even qualify for Strongman to compete against Jesse Marunde. Marunde did a push press of 495 pounds, 500 basically and then held it overhead for 12 seconds. Google :”Jesse Marunde 495 jerk”.
To put it in perspective my best squat 440 pounds 8 to 12 times (probably a solid 9 for actual correct reos) was Jessexs worst. He eased through 400 pounds, doing it fast and 20 reps. His worst lift is my best. No YouTube guru coukd ever compete agains5 the world class Marunde. Jesse was likely out and out stronger than Maruisz, but Pudziankowski had tge speed and endurance. IEven Magnus Ver MaGnusson TODAY, an old man athletically is strongerr than Betkan NO QUEST7ON. MAGNUS =ICELANDIC BEAST. I stood right in front of Magnus, his bone structure is unreal! Magnus was throwing around some serious
plates 8n the bar bench pressing. This dude has thick wrists and tremendous gifts for strength sports.
Jesse was a great guy, so nice, so humble.
Hey Matt, if your willing to go on one more Health Unicorn Hunt, check this one out ? it may even surprise you.
A guy who cured his eczema with a Vitamin A elimination diet presents his theory that Vitamin A is not a vitamin, it’s actually a toxin ? and it’s the root cause of all of all the autoimmune diseases.
https://ggenereux.blog/2017/04/29/vitamin-a-oh-no-its-not/
If that’s not enough to pique your curiosity, consider these observations about Vitamin A:
? Why do animals store so much Vitamin A in our livers? Why doesn’t our body “use” it like other vitamins?
??If Vitamin A is a beneficial nutrient, why are the toxicity symptoms so harsh (Hypervitminosis A)? Why are the symptoms of Vitamin A deficiency the same as the symptoms of Vitamin A excess?
??Accutane (which is essentially retinoic acid, which metabolized from retinol) was pulled off the market by its manufacturer and has been implicated in causing Cron’s disease / IBD. Also, isoretinoin (an isomer of retinoic acid) is a chemotherapy drug.
I’m hoping you check it out because the theory is compelling and what it needs is more exposure and more people researching and testing it out.
A root cause of all the autoimmune diseases? That seems extremely unlikely.
This reminds me a lot of the guy who went to war against Vitamin D in the same manner. The Marshall Protocol. Some weird ass shit to say the least.
I think there are tons of ways to rid yourself of eczema. It’s really easy to get rid of because it’s so easy to see and monitor changes in response to various therapies. You see Paleos, vegans, gluten phobes, IF’ers, and more boasting of curing themselves from eczema. My ex-girlfriend overcame an autoimmune disease by lowering her stress levels and upping her carbs. Gone! Why didn’t every culture in the past have rampant autoimmune disease? They all ate truckloads of liver compared to what is being consumed in the modern diet.
I’m happy to consider ANYTHING, but I’m not the least bit compelled yet. I’d need a lot more to be impressed to the point of trying to raise awareness for this theory.
I have to agree with you, Matt. My eczema pops out when I’m under stress. As soon as I start making money, it goes away (stress is lowered). And when my body temps are low, and I know I’m eating enough, I know that my thyroid levels of T3 are down. I’ve spoken with others dx’d with Hashimoto’s (like me) and they report the same thing: stress makes you need a stronger dose of meds along with more food.
It’s so funny, every time I meet a new person and shake their hand, I can tell immediately if they need to eat: their hands are cold!
Yeah wait till those kids get to high school, then they will rebel against their diet and go on a multi year binge of pure junk food.
The carnivore diet is just another fad. 2016 was all about fasting, 2017 was keto’s year, and now in 2018 it’s carnivore. Next year it’ll be something else.
Carnivores are also some of the dumbest people I’ve ever talked to. They’re usually flat earthers (among many other conspiracies), and their appeal to nature fallacies almost always turn into Aryan supremacy beliefs, a disowning of the “desert religions” (Abrahamic), and anti-semetic conpiracies about “spreading so” lol
Having said that, I believe bit does work for some people, but not because of some inherent healing magic in meat. Most of them eat two meals a day (built in boredom if diet), in a small window, fast for the rest, and they usually barely hit 2000 calories, while also avoiding ALL junk foods. It’s also an elimination diet that removes whatever you were allergic/sensitive to without knowing. Instead of meatheals.com it should be called caloricrestictiontinerestrictedfeedingIFnojunkfoodeliminationdietheals.com lol
*spreading soy
It really does suck, the amount of time I’ve wasted reading/researching and self-experimenting different diets to just come full circle (several times) and feel like the only thing I learned is that the human body is very complex.
It’s great that a raw vegan diet helped her skin but the only thing that ever cleared up my skin was when I was a strict carnivore.
Unfortunately that ended up manifesting itself with other side effects but for every vegan success story there seems to be a vegan failure story and even a carnivore success story.
Just look at meatheals.com or even better yet, if you want a crazy transformation story how about
http://meatheals.com/2018/02/04/charlene-andersen/. Joe and Charlene have eaten only meat for almost 20 years and their kids have been carnivores since being weaned off breast milk and yet they seem happy and healthy.
https://twitter.com/JoeCharlene8898
It’s frustrating because I’d be willing to eat or drink anything if I knew it was truly optimal for my health but unfortunately every diet experiment that I’ve done has had at best some negative side effects.
rosenfeltc,
Thanks for that MeatHeals.com link. I’d never seen nor heard of that website. (I certainly didn’t mind seeing the photos of Charlene, either.)
A few weeks ago, by accident, I found the following Twitter account “CarnivoresCreed” which led me to the associated website HighSteaks.com.
I read through the feeds and found them funny, but it never once occurred to me to actually eat only meat and drink only water.
Like any mono diet, though, I imagine I’d soon tire of it. Actually, it doesn’t even sound that appealing. Then again, neither does anything else.
As in Matt’s books, I know we’d ideally achieve neutrality with all foods. But, I seem to have ended-up being sick of all foods — thinking about them, shopping for them, preparing them, and eating them.
Bleh…
One interesting commonality is that Charlene noticed having symptoms on pork but not beef. The thing Charlene and Lissa have in common on their completely opposite diets is very low PUFA intake, or, in the case of Charlene at least, high saturated to unsaturated fats. If Lissa gets more than 10% total fat her symptoms start to come back, just as Charlene’s come back on pork.
Interesting too that her asthma went away on an all-meat diet. I just used an ultra low-fat diet to get rid of my asthma over the last 6 weeks, lol.
Matt — what do you think it is about eating ultra low-fat that got rid of your asthma?
I’m trying the ultra low-fat thing and am just finishing Day #3. It’s surprisingly hard to get enough calories when I’m not eating my usual ice cream, peanut butter, etc. But I guess the idea is to slowly ramp up, anyway?
I would imagine it’s restriction of PUFA that helps a lot, but there could be other factors. I’m not eating that much protein either, and low methionine intake might also be helping. I also think carbs are uniquely de-stressing to the nervous system, and that may be taking off a lot of the ol’ adrenal burden.
It takes a while to adjust to eating really, really high carb. The volume you have to eat to get enough food is enormous compared to a normal diet. When I first started I was super cold. Now I’m as warm or even warmer than I was eating a pretty high-calorie mixed diet filled with tons of restaurant food and what not, even with much higher fluid intake (from tons of fruit). So I’m interested for sure.
Dammit.
I keep trying to post comments and some don’t appear. Any chance they’re getting stuck somewhere? Spam folder?
In the post I just submitted, I removed the “http://” prefix of the websites I listed, in hopes that would allow the post to go through without needing approval. But, after submitting it, the comments vanished. There was nothing posted – not even as “awaiting approval.”
This is the first time today. A couple of days ago, however, this happened three or four times.
They just get help up in moderation when you have more than one link in your comment. I approve them, eventually. I think all of your comments should be posted now.
Matt is there a primer I can read on why PUFA is bad? Most of the time you look it up, chances are they’re citing Ray Peat and nothing else, and I’m not a big believer in the Gospel of our Lord and Savior Ray Peat.
The general foundation is that PUFA is the precursor to the formation of inflammatory eicosanoids. Reading Barry Sears back in the day was my first exposure to the concept. Floyd Chilton’s Inflammation Nation was an improvement over Barry’s understanding i think.
Ray’s more comprehensive understanding of PUFA and its chemical properties and broader biological role is important though. I think he’s the only one that has tied many fragments of research into something that actually makes comprehensive sense. Although I’m not sure what he’s put together about PUFA means that you should run out and eat a bunch of ice cream and coconut oil. I think you’ll find most Peatards not having much luck Peating with higher fat intake. The ones who have opted to eat a lower fat Peat diet seem to have fared the best long-term.
hmmm, interesting about the pork/beef issue – I often wonder about Dr. PEter D’Adamo’s work with eating in accordance with one’s blood type/Genotype,… it would certainly make sense then, if some people seem to do very well eating tons of meat, while others do poorly, and why some do so well on low-fat/little meat…..
Have you smelled the people claiming to be thriving on a high meat diet? If you do that might change your mind, lol.
I have bad asthma, too. It sucks. Sometimes it goes away if I do some intervals, imprives it. I am still stuck with an inhaler though.
I may write about the asthma soon. I was having some problems with it and just got sick of dealing with and used an inhaler a few times. Then I became totally hooked on the inhalers! I went from having slight asthma at night to having life-threatening-without-an-inhaler asthma in short order! Those things are fucked. I was so determined to get off of them that I was willing to go to extremes to figure it out, and I pretty much have. Took a few weeks to get off the inhalers completely and a few more weeks to get my asthma down to just very slight asthma late at night. I’m close to having none at all now.
Thanks for helping me understand why some comments get posted immediately and why some are flagged for moderation.
By the way, in re-reading the opening of my previous post, one might conclude I was mad. That was certainly NOT the case. I apologize for my choice of words.
Most of my comments are now posted, but some never appeared. I know it’s nothing to do with them waiting for approval, as the posts never appeared (as others have) with the comments “awaiting approval” message.
I’ve had four of five posts completely vanish, after hitting “Submit Comment.” Strange, as the URL does show a new Comment Number being generated, but the comments went into a black hole.
Not a big deal, though. I just need to go back to writing them in Outlook, so I can have a backup copy, in case it happens again.
C’est la vie.
I see, so they help make inflammatory molecules. I vaguely knew about the Omega 3 to 6 ratio, but I thought that died down after all the fish oil studies bombed. It sounded funny to me how people talked about rancid oils then took rancid fish oil pills to remedy it lol.
Maybe I should give Peat another chance. I tried to read his stuff but all his blog posts are in a rambling style with no intro or conclusion, just a couple of thoughts.
One article was a rant about fiber, how vegetables are overhyped and toxic, and what a ridiculous claim it was that fiber cleanses your colon. Few entries later he was telling me to eat raw grated carrot every day because of it’s good micros and–get this–it cleanses your colon! Wow. ????
Haha. Peat can get pretty out there, don’t get me wrong. Especially when it comes to extreme trivialities, like the PUFA content of above ground vegetables vs. below ground vegetables (sigh, moan). But I think he has the basic objectives right: high metabolism, low stress, low inflammation, low free radical oxidation.
Most of his work is related to one ore more of those four objectives.
Few in any field would argue against those as being key factors for good health and highly functional aging.
Skeptic,
Speaking of eccentric people and fiber, did you ever see the following website:
https://www.GutSense.org
Surprisingly, the Weston A. Price Foundation gave the book a “Thumbs Up” review.
I then found the author did interviews on the podcasts of Jimmy Moore, Dr. Michael Ruscio, and Ben Greenfield.
I have mentioned Konstantin a few times over the years, and watched him speak at the WAPF conference. He’s a funny guy. Not correct about much. But definitely witty.
Sadly, WAPF pretty much approves ANYTHING that counters the mainstream. I’ve made that mistake many times too, admittedly, as I’m a natural contrarian. But I’m trying to grow out of it!
Skeptic, the thing about Ray Peat is that he is pretty much right about everything but you have to really delve into his research hard core to understand the nuance. When it comes to his actual diet recommendations though I think he has some pretty big biases and of course what works for one does not work for all. It’s best to go with his overall guide for a healthy metabolism of keeping pufa low, fat medium low, protein and carbs higher and sugar preferred over starch. Don’t eat toxic foods or at the very least cook them well to make them more digestible. Keep the digestion fast and colon clean. Avoid stress and get lots of sunlight, minerals and vits, esp b vits.
As far as the carrot thing, he believes that their fiber is antibacterial and acts like a gentler sweeping agent like activated charcoal. He has said other things work similar, broccoli, mushrooms and bamboo shoots being some. He’s not wholly opposed to all fiber but thinks most fiber leads to a burden by feeding excess bacteria. Keeping overall bacterial populations low is key to health.
Oh yeah I know Konstantin and I’ve read everything on his site and his book “fiber menace”. I wouldn’t even have glanced at such a website 3 years ago but after I got IBS I was more open minded about fiber. However since I eat like a child–no fruit or veg–fiber couldn’t have caused my IBS lol. He raves that ditching fiber helped him lose weight, but when you get to his diet recommendations, you find out he eats like 1600 calories lol. (Cue Scooby Doo ending: it was calorie restriction this whole time!)
@zach: yeah I’m glad you brought up the sugar>starch thing, I never got that either? As someone who until very recently used to drink 2 litres of Coke a day, I can personally guarantee that sweetened beverages are an elixir of health lol. They’re most likely obesogenic. At least Peat recommends OJ. I’ve seen Danny Roddy actually recommend Coke with a straight face for a “healthy diet”
*are NOT an elixer…
That’s just the summary ? Genereux presents a ton of compelling evidence in his posts/books, I’m just trying to pique your curiosity enough to get you to read them ? or at least one of his blog posts like this one: https://ggenereux.blog/2015/02/12/eca/
By the way, according to his theory, asthma is another manifestation of this same Vitamin A poisoning. Was the diet that reduced your asthma low in vitamin A by any chance? You could also keep this in mind and note whether high Vitamin A foods cause flare-ups.
Here’s a relevant quote: “I think one of the hardest aspects of my overall theory to accept is the claim that all the auto-immune diseases are fundamentally one and the same condition. I make the claim that the organ the named autoimmune disease most prominently presents in is a red herring, and is almost meaningless in regards to the etiology. Conversely, what’s extremely important is that the named disease presents itself in the epithelium of the organ. Therefore, the auto-immune diseases are all diseases of epithelium, and / or the consequences of the destruction of these epithelial tissues.
in both MS and in diabetes, the immune system is responding to the apparently misbehaving stem cells of the epithelial tissues. In the disease labeled Multiple Sclerosis, it just happens most aggressively in the epithelial tissues comprising the myelin sheaths wrapping nerves, and in the other disease labeled Diabetes, it just happens most aggressively in the epithelial tissues comprising ducts of the pancreas. However, the named organ is almost meaningless in understanding the real mechanism of the disease.
The root mechanism of the disease is the destruction of the epithelial tissues within the organ. What so important about the epithelial tissues is that it is a fundamental tissue type that not only covers the exterior of the body, it also lines the cavities, gland ducts, blood vessels and organs throughout the body.
[…]
Therefore, it’s critically important to zoom-in and see that we are not looking at just organ destruction, rather it is the destruction of the epithelial structure within, or that makes up, the organ.
From there, we then need to drill down just a little bit deeper to see that it’s the stem cells that are hosted along the basal membrane of that epithelial that are the primary source of the disease. This is because the stem cells are the primary target of vitamin-A toxicity. As the stem cells fall victim, the overall tissue slowly starts to degenerate, and ultimately disintegrates.
Therefore, the disease quite literally progresses from the bottom up, or from the inside out. If this disease process happens in the epidermis, then you have eczema. If it happens in the pancreas, you have diabetes. If it happens in the lungs, you have asthma. If it happens in the reproductive tissues, then you have infertility. If it happens in the myelin sheaths surrounding the nerves, you have MS. If it happens in the eyes, you have xerophthalmia. If it happens in the nephrons of the kidneys, you have kidney disease. If it happens in the GI tract, you might have Crohn’s or colitis, and on and on. Well, you get the idea.
Any organ or any epithelium can and will be affected by vitamin-A toxicity. This aspect of its toxicity is not just some ‘theory. It has been absolutely and completely proven, and proven thousands of times over, in both animal experiments and with the so-called cancer treatments in humans.”
From: Chapter 4 of ‘Poisoning for Profits’
https://ggenereuxblog.files.wordpress.com/2018/05/poisoningforprofits.pdf
I will absolutely pay attention to whether high vitamin A foods cause flare-ups. Are we talking strictly retinol or foods high in beta carotene as well?
I’m thinking of people following Gerson Therapy and gulping-down 12+ glasses of vegetable juices daily.
1 cup (236 g) of carrot juice = 45,133 IU Vitamin A
Genereux does a very strict elimination diet,’so he avoids both retinol and carotenoids and considers them both harmful. He was motivated by the severity of his symptoms, but one might see benefits just from going low vitamin A or eliminating the big sources like liver and Accutane and fish/cod liver oil* and vitamin-fortified milk.
Btw, another little piece of evidence is the list of common autoimmune trigger foods: “milk, dairy, eggs, tomatoes, bell peppers, citrus fruits, fish, (peanut butter being excluded because it’s a well-known allergen), what are the common chemical compounds they all share, other than H2O? After all, the chemical culprits we are looking for is very likely shared by all of these foods. For example, what chemical compounds are common to both orange juice and fish? I’m guessing there are only a few compounds, and that one of them is vitamin A or one of its precursors.”
I’ve been doing low vit A for about 2 months now and recently I had a cheat day where I ate a whole cheese pizza and within the next few days I had a significant acne breakout and also a spontaneous mouth ulcer (usually they I only get them after I accidentally bite my cheek). Both have plausible explanations in Genereux’s retinol theory: both are epithelial tissue with sebaceous glands that harbor retinoic acid. Anyway, I get those mouth ulcers regularly but this recurrence made me realize I hadn’t had one since I started the low vitamin A diet. They’re a mystery to everyone else, at least Genereux has a plausible theory.
*Btw, Matt, it was your mention in a previous article of the WAPF people dying from fermented cod liver oil that sent me down this rabbit hole. I went to read more about that on various blogs and someone in a comment somewhere posted a link to Genereux’s blog and basically said it might not have been the rancidity that killed them, it may have been the Vitamin A. And I clicked that link on a whim, and then either I am crazy/desperate or the material is very compelling (or both) because I then read the ~800 pages he’s published on the subject.
I’m not sure that eating pizza and having acne and mouth sores is convincing enough to me. “Pizza mouth” (from the higher temperature of pizza vs. other foods) is a more likely culprit on the mouth sores. But my curiosity is piqued for sure. I know that my asthma got significantly worse on my milk diet stint, and during my WAPF days for sure.
But eating a big steaming pile of cooked kale does no such thing. Spinach and lettuce seem to help my asthma get better, not worse. Kale has 35X as much vitamin A as orange juice (which I am a little bit sensitive to, I’ve discovered).
If pizza gives you that problem, I’d be curious if liver, cod liver oil, vitamin A supplements, ice cream, dark leafy greens, sweet potatoes, and carrot juice give you those problems as well. I suspect they won’t.
Longtime anon, so he does believe that all vit a is toxic and we don’t need it at all? Or just tiny tiny amounts? I am reading the book, on page 17…
Have you read Ray Peats thoughts on A? He’s pretty spot on with hormones and nutrients, I’d be surprised if he didn’t catch something like this if it was true.
Longtime anon, thanks for the response.
I was diagnosed with anklosing spondylitis a while ago which is a form of autoimmune arthritis. There have very few times in my life where I took any vit a supps and I never ate liver or fortified milk. I can’t imagine I would have built up such a supply to warrant an AD. I did take fermented cod liver oil in the good old paleo days but i also ate zero carb, fasted, exercised my ass off, ate massive pufa m, etc… anyway, I’m still reading the book, it’s defonitely interesting and Ray Peat believes most vit A is toxic so it’s not a fat leap to believe all is.
@matt: for what it’s worth, these “carnivores” loooove to point out that most humans are very inefficient at converting beta carotene to vitamin A, and how preformed retinol from animal foods is SO Superior and more bioavailable, so maybe the veg sources matter less?
Oh god. I want this Genereux guy to be wrong, because the cure almost sounds worse than the disease (a steady diet of beef, brown rice, cauliflower, and lots of water). He says he plans to be on it for the rest of his life. Kill me now.
But he may be onto something. I have the chronic dry eye condition he talks about and also Graves’ Disease (autoimmune hyperthyroidism). Because of that eye problem and having also developed bad night blindness, I decided to take high doses of Vit A (retinyl palmitate) for awhile last year. Not only did I get zero improvement in my dry eyes or my night blindness, but I had the worst hyperthyroid episode I’ve ever had — it will probably take a year or more to fully recover from it (regaining muscle that the extreme hyperthyroid state ate up, etc.) My experience is just anecdotal, of course, but it does make me wonder if he’s right. Obviously, I would like to finally find cures for those things, after many years of experimenting and still having no improvement.
But would it really be necessary to stick to a hideous eating plan like that for life? It seems so joyless and so…unnatural.
No fruit on the diet? Why no tubers? I mean, I can live without greens, eggs, liver, and maybe even dairy as well. But are fruits really that high in vitamin A/carotene? From what I’m seeing on nutritiondata, cauliflower has around 50 IU per 100 calories and bananas are around 70. More or less the same. Potatoes are showing up at like 10IU per 100 calories.
So, he writes the following:
“My vitamin A elimination diet:
* Water
* White or Brown Rice (not yellow or golden!)
* Egg Whites
* Beef (steak, roast, no sauces, or spices other than salt and black pepper if wanted)
* Olive Oil (2 teaspoons per day)
* Black Coffee if wanted (no milk, no cream, no whiteners)
* Vitamin C supplements (recommended)
* Vitamin D supplements (critical, depending upon your sunshine exposure)
* Cashews (5-10 per day, recommended)
NOTHING COOKED WITH BUTTER or COCONUT OIL. No sauces, no ketchup etc!
This is 3 meals a day, 7 days per week. Eat as much as you need to; but more is not better.
That’s it! Absolutely nothing else! No fish, fish oil, no fruits or vegetables. No cod liver oil, no omega 3/6 etc. from fish sources. No multivitamins, No coconut oil. NOTHING, Absolutely NOTHING else! Not a single bite, not a speck, not a crumb of anything else.”
But, in the comments, someone asks about other foods – including cashews (see above, regarding cashews) and this is what he replied:
Regarding your questions:
* Mushrooms: I considered mushrooms, but was unsure about having a sound intestinal barrier. On one hand, the fungus might help to bring down the local store of vitamin A; yet on the other hand, for me, I was not sure if they would have an adverse effect. So, short answer, I don’t know.
* Onions: Sounds great; I did very occasionally include onions in my diet.
* Potatoes: Yes, probably a great alternative to rice.
* Brazil nuts: Yes, but, I’d be careful about getting too much Vitamin E too.
* Cashews: I’d say absolutely no cashews because they could be potentially contaminated with urushiol (the poison ivy molecule). I don’t know what the likelihood is, but I’d not take any chances.
* Black tea: great too. But no peppermint teas, as peppermint is quite high in VA too.
Also, I did very occasionally eat some broccoli, and pineapple, and almonds.”
So, first, DO include cashews. Then, do NOT include cashews.
What happened to cauliflower?! haha
I’ll have to slog my way thru his ebook over time — it’s 356 pages and very interesting but not light reading. The blog is a little more user-friendly.
AnnB: I don’t know if this applies to your situation, but I thought of you, wondering if maybe D makes you feel better because of how it offsets A? He says:
“Vitamin D is just a by-product of the solar breakdown of so-called vitamin-A, and it binds to the same cellular receptors. Therefore, vitamin D only appears to be a vitamin because it is far less toxic than vitamin A. And vitamin D blunts the toxicity of vitamin A by blocking up the same receptors, and thereby rate-limits the conversion of vitamin A into the highly toxic retinoic acid form of the retinoid molecule.”
There’s another related blog by someone who got Vit A toxicity. They talk about herbs, meds, etc. that might help reduce Vit A levels faster than just through diet alone:
https://www.healthextremist.com/how-i-got-vitamin-a-toxicity/
I want to read that book but it’s soooo boring. So the guy thinks vit a is completely toxic and we don’t need it at all?
This just further solidifies the notion that all this goddamn “diet” stuff is fruit-less. Pun intended.
If I eat what I want (or, have become habituated to, I guess), then I gain weight and feel like a bloated pig.
If I eat what I DON’T want (loads of vegetables, low-fat, etc.) and/or restrict some foods, then I lose weight, but then feel flabby, weak, and dizzy.
As Penn Jillette says: “What the fuckin’ fuck?”
Yesterday, I learned that a friend was diagnosed with cancer. I can’t even imagine trying to figure-out what the heck to eat in that scenario. It’s tough enough being quasi-healthy and pondering diet.
Zach: I think his view is that anything other than very, very small amounts of A are toxic and that’s why he follows such a strict eating plan.
But people on that other site I gave a link to (re: Vit A toxicity) don’t necessarily follow such a limited diet.
I’m wondering if people who report improvements from doing liver & gall bladder flushes feel better because it is decreasing their excess Vit A, rather than because they are releasing stones?
I should have said “the evidence is compelling”, because yeah, the summary just sounds wacky.
A core piece of evidence: he dissects the original research in the 1920s that supposedly produced symptoms of Vitamin A “deficiency” and shows that the diet they used ? while low in retinol ? was actually high in retinoic acid because of heat treatment / oxidation of the diet’s casein and lard. But at the time, they didn’t know about retinoic acid, and didn’t know how to detect it.
And there were later experiments with different diets that could not confirm the original results of so-called vitamin A deficiency. And even an experiment that used the same “vitamin A depleted diet” plus supplemental vitamin A that got the same results (suggesting that its actually vitamin A poisoning producing the symptoms of Vitamin A deficiency).
There’s also the common sense observation that the results of so called vitamin A deficiency in that original study are extreme and made the lab rats either extremely sickly or dead within 2.5 months. He points out that’s not what you’d expect from a mere deficiency.
He also points out that in the real world there have been Vitamin A depleted diet “experiments” performed on humans ??POWs in Japan during WWII, who were given only a cup of rice as their daily ration (which has zero Vitamin A) but many of them survived for years (and had no vision loss [one of the supposed results of Vitamin A deficiency].
The botched science investigation is in chapter 5 of Poisoning for Profits.
https://ggenereuxblog.files.wordpress.com/2018/05/poisoningforprofits.pdf
I’ve had eczema since my early teens and this doesn’t jive with my experience since I eat almost zero vegetables (not proud of this lol) and eat no liver or even eggs (rarely, not a huge egg fan). I don’t take multivitamins either.
Skeptic, I think this article from the Weston A. Price Foundation does a good job of explaining the different types of fats and the dangers of PUFAs: https://www.westonaprice.org/health-topics/know-your-fats/the-skinny-on-fats/#poly
Thanks for the link Jeanne
@Skeptic
There are many other ways to get a lot of Vitamin A. What about dairy? Particularly low-fat milk (fortified with retinyl palmitate)? Also many breakfast cereals are fortified with vitamin A.
What about fish? Particularly cold water Atlantic fish, fish oil or Cod liver oil?
Or did you ever use Accutane (which is essentially retinoic acid)? Accutane has been implicated in court proceedings to contribute to Crohn’s / IBD.
Genereux’s theory is essentially that the liver has a certain storage capacity (which changes with age due to body / organ size) and so the symptoms present themselves when you exceed your storage capacity and daily use of the vitamin. He says about Accutane use: “What [Accutane users] have effectively done is to remove two or three decades of future storage capacity that would have been consumed by our normal North American diet.”
Never did accutane, I LOATHE seafood, but yeah I used to eat a lot of cereal with 2% milk until about 4 years ago when my robust lactose tolerance vanished seemingly overnight and I can’t handle milk anymore. I’ve been eating butter daily recently but I’ve avoided it most of my life. But I guess you do have a point about “enrichment” of processed foods… And I eat a lot of processed foods.
Just found this article by Lyle. I think he may be talking about you in the second paragraph Razwell lol.
https://bodyrecomposition.com/fat-loss/what-are-calories-part-1.html/
LOL. He definitely is. Lyle, unfortunately, is very confused about energy in physics, as well as the various units (far too many). I troll McDonald now and then. He deserves it, he is a DBag.He was a d@ck to Matt as well. He once told me in a personal e-mail that , “caloroes power the pathways.” That doofus erroneous believes that a fictiinal unit can act on the body. He is a moron. Physicists laugh at him. Urgelt told me years ago that Lyle is a charlatan fooland he refuses to even engage with him and doesn’t understand why I do.
Lyle Donald (he is not very smart at all) still fails to grasp that neither energy, nor calories (nor inverse fermions or any other hokey invention) NONE OF THESE are intangible, invisible nebulous stuff or entity that acts -like radio waves etc. Radio waves are stuff, part of the electromagnetic field. No, calories, ergs, energy -they are ALL INVENTED FICTION for useful convenience and tidy bookkeeping.
Radiation is NOT energy, not a number. It ks totally wrong to call a photon energy. Radiation is real stuff. Somebody needs to tell McDonald calories are inventions, NOT special and cannot possibly act on a human body.
Lyle is a joke. The physjcs profs I talk to would not even waste their day communicating with that charlatan.
Hi Matt,
Off topic a bit , but :I am glad the Rockets won. The midrange game is fundamental basketball, so is passing away from the defense to faciliatate, keepint dribbling to a minimum. I really hate what the modern NBA has become, poor fundamentals and. WWE pro wrestling league catering to casualfans
Jordan would have a field day in the modern NBA with his top tier, u suroassed fundamentals, will and athleticism, and I.Q. Even Durant does great with the midrange. He was the master of the midrange, lockdown, unguardable. Once he matured amd settled in Tex Winter’s triangle offense, great things happened. I love Larry Bird, but I feel as Jordan added more 4o his game, playee smarter than in late 80’s Bird woukd have had difficulty. Jordan was wise to take Birdxs advice to learn the game x”as IF you are not athletic” so as the years go by, once you are old, you still can play. 1997 was a great compromise, M.J. was still vwry athletic but had so much mkre knkwledge and a polished fadeaway. He seened MOST deadly in these years. His athleticism was sone to 95% in his own words, maybe 10 %.
Posting up, creating mismatches “going hunting at the zoo” is the most fundamental basketball and will never die as Hakeem and Barkley said. LeFlop needs to start posting up right on the block down low. Nobody can physically move him. I will say this, Sir Charkes and Hakeem and McHale were all far superior post players to LeBron.Barkley was a terror. Only the very most primed M.J. was above him offensively. He dominated the Dream Team oitoerforming eveeybody, Pip was next.
Tracy McGrady knows the game with his commentary. Jordan was well taught by Dean Smith. It’e fundamental basketball. Gasau hates analytics, so does Barkley, Kobe, Hakeem, Shaq. Itxs for people who never played who do not know the game. Basketball is an art, life is also too complicated to put into a math equation. There is no analytics for Shaq’s thwarting intimidation, M.J.xs will and mere court presence inspiring confidence in teammates, the superb defense Hersey Hawkins played on Jordan i. 1990 playoff, driving into the ground literally-made him to fall on his butt and collapse (superb job by Herseyl, the greatness and clutch play down the stretch that the 1997 era Bulls showed, the sheer heart, effort, no anayttics for any of that.
What Lyle cannot grasp is that a “calorie” (insert any other FICTIONAL unit as well-kilowatt hour, inverse fermion) is NOT ONLY NOT a physical object it is NOT A N Y T H I N G. Not ANY, WHY entity whatsoever or stuff whatsoever, NEITHER tangible, nor invisible , nor any of that. It is NOT ANY entity in Nature whatsoever.
Calories are no different than “SPINDLY” . A totally made up, INVENTED , abstract quality. Energy , itself, is a totally abstract property we humans assign to objects for tidy neat bookkeeping. Energy ks not at all -at all ANY kind ofmstuff, JUST a N U M B ER humans COMPUTE. Lyke will never, ever understand this. I suppose Feynman was correct in his judgement that “energy is a very, very subtle concept.” That almost everybody gets wrong.
Richard Feynman hi self said it,” Energy can be measured in calories, joules, inverse fermions, kilowatt hiurs, ergz- we DO NOT NEED ANYMORE INVENTIONS.”
Feynman was a top tier elite physicist, the top genuis on the Los Alamos project. He knows physics farrrrrr better than a shady Internet huckster booksalesman named Lyle McDonald and a fith rate obesity researcher named Guyenet. The top notch information about energy is out there to confront McDonald et al about their misconceptions.
Albert Einstein was one of the greatest physicists and physics mimds that ever lived, even better than Feynman perhaps. Einstein, at the end of his life, wrote to his friend Michael Besso that he felt our science is WRONG (including his OWN work) . Einstein was suoer doubtful and super critical of his own (high quality) life’s work, especially in the last few years of his life. Einy wrote he doubted physics could be based on the field principle. And if that is indeed the case, then almost nothing remained of his own work. Einy felt that after 50 years of brewing over Nature, he was no closer than when he started out. Keep this in mind the next ti e Gueyent and McDonald pompously assert their crap about the causes of obesity and “calorie models” etc. Obesity is pooooorly understood. I know immunesystem and genetics are vwry involved but too little is known thus far. What we DO KNOW is that the calorie model is a dead hkrse in the world of contemporary onesity research science. Recentky, there was a story of a thin model who became OBESE simply from a brain tumor. Damaging the brain in rkdents induces obesity, too, as Dr. Friedman notes. The calorie model is a joke and an INSULT to victims of poor health events
General Relativity is more fundamental than thermodynamics according to Steven Weinnerg. So keep in mind that Einy felt his OWN super fundamental theories were wrong. (G.R.)
There is NOTHING sacrosanct about what Guyenet and McDonald are pushing and misusing physics to push by the way. Funny how actual top tier ELITE physicists DO NOT support Guye et, CarbSane nor Lyle….
CICO is a stupid sales nostrum. It’s not physics.There is no such ,aw in biology OR physics. “CICO” does NOT remotely address or explain the chemical behavior kf fat cell receptors, or dysregulation of adipocytes. My advice is CONFRONT Lyle et al about this. Donxt let them slide. McDonald is conning readers.CICO is not any mechanism either. In order to lose matter, atoms must be physically excreted removed from the body.
Fictional units have nothing to do with “weightc, nor body composition. “Weight is a force, medium dependent, location specific (moon, spave, sea, water, Jupiter
sea, Jupiter etc.)
. Conservation of energy, a NUMBER, is not sacrosanct. It totally fails at the cosmic level, the rapidly exoanding universe. What we learn in physics that what is considered once fundamental CHANGES as Dr. Krauss said in video. Every physicist on the planet 15 years ago would have been certain that the total energy of empty space is zero. Today we know IT IS N-O-T zero.
We are wrong all the time. Such is the history of this. There js FAR MORE WE DO NOT know about the universe (and diseases like obesity) than we know.
Dr. Krauss and others state this ON VIDEO.
The calorie model is an i sult, a disgarce and laughably simplistic crap promoted by the fitness and commercial dieting industries.
Weinberg is 20 times smarter than Guyenet or Lyle ever dreamed kf being.
Another topic Lyle McDonald cannot grasp is that heat is DIFFERENT from calories, joules, kilowatt hours, ergs. Those are units, fiction. Heat is the rasiation we feel (but cannot see like Pit vipers so) sloshy shorter wave lengths of tje elctromagnetic field, this electeomagnetic spectrum-RADIATION.
When atoms jiggle fast enough, they emit light.
Matter and energy are NOT related. Lyle confuses the two and cannot get this through his head. He cannot grasp radio waves, nor heat and confuses “energy” with that. I had to correct Dr. David Katz ofYale, he arrogantly told me fire is energy. W R O N G, Katz!
Heat (part of the waves of the electromagnetic spectrum-radiation) does NOT tell us ANYTHING about how lipids behave, how chemical receptors behave, how fat cells hoard and become dysregulated NOR does heat EVER turn into MATTER, FAT TISSUE. He cannot grasp that calories NEVER go from abstract mathematical fiction inro physical tissue amd atoms.
Setting food on fire tells us NOTHING about obesity nor how to solve it. Who cares about the combustive quality of food or a piece of cosmic trash on Neptune. LOL
Energy(a number) CANNOT magically moroh, transform, turn into matter, as Lev Okun amd Prof Strassler habe noted. Nor can calories, joules or energy EVER EVEN ACT on any thing-stuff, human cells.
Setting food on fire is STUPID. The ocxidation of fire (totally chaotic, wild, out of control and indiscriminate to the maximum) is not even remotely similar to the super, super selective and slow chemical cascade that represents humans’ chemical oxidation reduction redox reactions.
I have no idea what McDonald’s and Guyenet’s points are. They ignores MOUNTAINS of evidence showing the calorie model is a wrong headed dead horse in the world of contemporary obesity scientific research
Lyle and Stephan Guyenet are lying to their readers. Having a tight, hard magazine cover muscular or toned body is largely a matter of 1) GENETICS and 2) or maybe 1A) biochemistry/-being biochemically healthy -superb hormonaltone/health,
A real expert, unlike Lyle, Doug Brignole , has clients that no matter what they do-and they are disciplined as hell, cannot get lean.
The only good words I can write about Lyle is that at least he, unlike numerous other “gurus” , never went from extreme low carb to high crab or extreme high carb to low carb flavor of the month diets to sell to green audiences and fool rubes. And these dietsjuuusstsooo conveniently happen to have “research” that supports it.Even if these said gurus already “debunked “that same research as poor science just 5 years prior (Colpo) LOL! They all switch in a few months to so e other diet like Nikoley, Colpo, etc.I remember so well, soooo vividly how tge Blogosphere changed DRAMATICALLY from the summer of 2007 to the atumn and winter of 2007 (July 2007= low carb pimping and just in September, October, November, December of 2007 and January 2008 was NOW all high carb. Taubes’ book release was game changing landmark in Blogoville. The low carb gutsnow had to instantly change their tune to compete.I saw this absurdity immediately at the time. I was on a Caribbean vacation at the time, gone about 5 weeks. I check Colpo’s and other gurusx sites and NOW from July to September have begun militantly attacking low carb. It was shocking.
Hi Matt,
I hope you write about asthma. That would be great. Mine happens in the early morning, moderately bad. Sometimes at night, too. I was even in the hospital for it when I was 7. (I had to get rid of a beloved childhood dog due to allergies and severe asthma. She went to a loving family, thankfully, and got superb care.My dad knew the this from co-workers
who knew the family. This coworker suggested doing this to my dad because this particular co-worker knew that my dad had to give away my dog and he knew thisfamily who was looking for a young dog for their own children)
With no more pets unfortunately(it really sucked) and no more symptoms, I thought I had “outgrown it”,(dormant for yearrrs) then as a super young adult of 19 years old , it came back with avengance. The inhaler does not do that much and has its own super bad risks. The “Symbi” something inhaler did nothing (I forget the name) It was soooo expensive, too. One inhaler did a little,(believe it was Advair in 2010) but that other one began with an S (not Singulair) literally made it worse , way worse, and cost well over $100
@Razwell
If your willing to consider a new theory and try a new experiment, here’s one for you: the root cause of the autoimmune diseases (including asthma) is excess vitamin A.
Caveat: I don’t know if this guy is right or not, but it’s a compelling theory ??and I just want to see it get more exposure, and have more people discussing, researching, experimenting with it.
Genereux posits that Vitamin A is the root cause of autoimmune conditions, including asthma. You mention it returning with a vengeance at 19 years old, well, Genereux has an explanation for that:
“The interesting question here is what’s with this magic 20ish age thing. Why are so many young people getting Crohn’s and many of the other autoimmune diseases around this age? Well, what happens at that age in the human body?
The human liver becomes fully developed around age 20; boys are one or two years earlier. Some other sources document that it is more likely happening by age 15 or so. Now, let’s have another look at the chart of the liver volume changing with age. For whatever the reason, it looks like the liver drops in size once it has stopped growing, and this happens at age 20ish. The two charts are shown on the next page.
Therefore, that’s probably why there’s this spike in Crohn’s at this age. Not only can the growth of the liver no longer outpace the rate of dietary consumption of vitaminA, it is actually shrinking in volume. The consumption – absorption race is lost. Of course, it isn’t this binary. This can, and clearly does, happen at any age between 10 and 50 plus.”
Extinguishing the Fires of Hell, p 211, ch 16
https://ggenereuxblog.files.wordpress.com/2016/10/extinguishing-the-fires-of-hell2.pdf
Could it be 19 year olds have gotten bombed (drunk) enough times a week to make this difference? First or second year of college or at least out of their parents’ house. Do we add those who feel the need to experiment with pot, smoking or other drugs before their internal organs are ‘mature.’
From past reading on the topic of just smoking cigarettes, it damages the adolescent body’s ability for the liver, etc. to mature properly.
I don’t have any studies to share….
Thanks for the link,Longtime, it is very possible. I applaud the effort in coming up with this model. Biology is so complex. Sounds good.
There will be many surprises-even the invention of new principles may be needed separate from physics of the universe, as various physicists have noted.We always learn how little we k ew as progress is made many years later. It’s the history of research.My gradeschool childhood friend for an autoimmune disease, I sure would like to know how and why.
I didn’t come up with it, Grant Genereux did. I just stumbled across his blog, and was impressed with the theory/research and so I’m trying to help get the word out. https://ggenereux.blog/2016/04/22/ending-the-mystery-of-auto-immune/
FIVE HUNDRED!
Carl, I read Konstantin Monastyrsky’s book Fiber Menace several years ago. I now disagree with most of his dietary recommendations, but I do think he’s right about too much fiber potentially being problematic. I used to be the fiber queen–lots of whole grains and high-fiber veggies. I ended up obese with diverticulosis. Not saying the fiber was the only cause but I think it probably contributed. Now I can’t tolerate much fiber at all.
Hi Longtime Anon,
Sorry about the typing errors that I often make from my Tablet with its tiny keys and my long Steve Vaish fingers. LOL. I meant to write that my gradeschool friend developed an autoimmune disease around 13 years old and I really wish I could tell hi how and why-he would really want to know.
In order to treat diseases of all sorts (very effectively or better tha we currently do) or better yet-cure – diseases, it may turn out that scientists will need entirely new physical principles specifically for biology.
There have been *some* observations over the last decade that some physics professors have told me that moderately hint that the laws or principles that govern physics of the universe (planets, galaxies, rocks, stars, planes, chairs etc.) may be different than the principles which govern living cells, biological beings, life. This is cutting edge information, the forefront of physics, and many lower level physicists are not even privy to it. There is a great interview on Closer To Truth about this. Men such as Drs. Maldacena, Krauss, Carroll,Weinberg, Gross, are all very top tier physicists who give plenty of podcasts.
Solving the problem of tiny key, big fingers….WiFi keyboard.
Whoops. I just noticed my Beavis And Butt-Head esque wording. My nephew was recently talking about “The Avengers” I had that on my
mind, plus , I was simultaneously talking with my brother when I wrote that. I meant to say, ” My asthma returned with vengeance when I became 19 years old. LOL!
My son had eczema for about 3 years due to “healthy” eating. We went from diet to diet trying to get rid of it, with no luck. We came across Matt’s book and started applying it. In 2 months of eating junk food, his eczema was gone. If he got a flare up, he had 1 candy bar a day for a week to get rid of it. He was eczema free for over a year. We started eating more salads and drinking more fluids because of the weather. Well, he had a flare up. The fastest way to get rid of his eczema is candy. His temps lowered dramatically, too, when he broke out. Honey on toast everyday will keep it gone. Not sure if it has anything to do with VS, but I thought I would share.
Candy Bar Therapy (CBT)! :)
@Zach
I couldn’t reply to your comment so I’ll have to do it down here and hope you see it.
I’ll try to summarize it. Basically, Genereux’s theory is that Vitamin A (retinol) is a plant toxin/poison that our bodies have evolved to use it for specialized purposes like for aspects of our vision and as a kind of “weapon” which our immune system can utilize. But the problem in the modern Western world is that we are getting too much of it.
He goes into detail as to how excess chronic retinol does damage to the various epithelial tissues throughout the body, in particular, which results in the autoimmune diseases which have a similar mechanism but affect different organs: skin (eczema), lungs (asthma), the ducts of the pancreas (diabetes), eyes (cataracts), tear ducts (dry eyes), intestines (IBD), colon (ulcerative colitis), nerve sheaths (multiple sclerosis), etc.
Genereux says: “Is it a coincidence that the United States, Canada, Europe, and other industrialized nations get their vitamin A from multivitamins, fish liver oil, and the fortification of foods such as milk, butter, margarine, breakfast cereals, and some flours. Whereas, in the developing nations, people get 70 to 90% of their vitamin A from plant-based foods. We have an epidemic of autoimmune and other horrible diseases, and they don’t?”
If you have not consumed significant amounts of retinol then we might not need to avoid it, but for people that have (i.e. people with autoimmune disease) the “cure” is to minimize retinol consumption and wait for the body to deplete it’s retinol stores naturally.
This kind of argument/logic is cheap. You could literally make a theoretical statement like this about 100 different things that are unique to the West:
Is it a coincidence that the United States, Canada, Europe, and other industrialized nations get their vitamin A from multivitamins, fish liver oil, and the fortification of foods such as milk, butter, margarine, breakfast cereals, and some flours. Whereas, in the developing nations, people get 70 to 90% of their vitamin A from plant-based foods. We have an epidemic of autoimmune and other horrible diseases, and they don’t??
We use more pesticides, herbicides, eat a higher fat diet, use more medication, get more vaccines, eat a high-PUFA diet, spend more time in front of a screen, have higher sanitation and use more antibiotics (both of which destroy bacteriophages that are perhaps the most important thing for proper immune function), we eat more muscle meat and get less of our protein from low-methionine sources (causing more inflammation), we have higher chronic stress levels, we have an epidemic of hypothyroidism, do more dieting (my ex developed autoimmune disease and deathly shellfish allergies after running marathons on a low-carb diet for a couple years), we use more recreational drugs, get less exercise, and the list goes on.
That doesn’t mean that vitamin A might not be a problem, it’s just not an impressive way to convince someone like myself who has heard that type of theorizing (and even used it myself, moronically), about a thousand times over the last decade.
@Matt
I agree. That’s not his core argument or anything ? it’s more of an off-hand remark. I was just posting mainly for the list of trigger foods.
But here is relevant argument he made to narrow down the list of suspects that is strong IMO:
“It isn’t herbicides or pesticides, or modern day pollutants, farm chemicals, or chlorine in the water, etc. that’s causing the autoimmune diseases. This is clear because these diseases have been around for well over 100 years.
Charles Darwin had eczema 200 years ago, so that was not caused by a modern day toxin. The Egyptians wrote about having boils and endless itchy skin some 3,500 years ago. Queen Hatshepsut, who ruled Egypt from 1479 to 1458 B.C., suffered from inflammatory skin diseases, diabetes, and arthritis. The Romans documented chronic inflammation more than 2,000 years ago. So, we’ve had these scourges for a while now.
Naturally, there could, of course, be more than one toxin that causes the same disease. However, we do know there was, at least, one toxin that’s more than 200 years old that causes eczema, Crohn’s, and Alzheimer’s.”
p. 185, ETFOH (Extinguishing the Fires of Hell), G. Genereux
I’m not letting modern chemicals, plastics, glyphosate, flouride, etc. off the hook ? I’m sure they cause damage ? but he makes a good point. I haven’t researched it myself but it seems plausible that the autoimmune diseases have indeed been around for centuries, and so the root cause would have to have been around for centuries.
That is MUCH stronger, yes. Thanks for continuing to share Longtime, and for all the hard work you’ve put in researching this and bringing it to us. I’ve been looking into it all day, and it’s interesting for sure. Just read about the effectiveness of a diet with less than 20 grams of fat for MS. Seemed to be very effective. I’m not sure how accurate it is, but it’s a widely-held belief that very low-fat diets interfere with fat soluble vitamin absorption. And I wouldn’t be surprised if the broad fortification of foods turned out to be a deadly experiment. It was a fucking stupid idea to begin with. And it would certainly explain why I grew up feeling like shit when my favorite foods as a child were cheesy eggs and heavily-fortified cereal covered with fortified whole milk!
I also covered my face with Retin-A for years as a teenager, and I didn’t even have very bad acne. Thanks mom!
“I wouldn’t be surprised if the broad fortification of foods turned out to be a deadly experiment.”
Totally agree. I don’t think we need any sort of “studies” to conclude that the synthetic shit they’re putting back into “food” (after they first removed it) is NOT the same as what’s found in nature.
As many of us have probably done, I’ve long said “Don’t take a Lycopene supplement, eat a tomato.” Same for all the vitamins, minerals, etc.
BUT…
I’ve been guilty of taking “food-based” multivitamins that probably were an improvement over what the average Joe/Jane was taking, but was almost certainly still an analogue and missing important cofactors.
Is the answer to eat only whole food items and avoid any food-like items that have additives? So, beef, fowl, fish, meat, eggs, fruits, vegetables, legumes, tubers, nuts, seeds, etc.
That would NOT include isolated or condensed items like butter, oils, juicing, supplements, etc., as they’re not in their natural form, packaging, or ratios.
Maybe that’s a part of the reason why some people feel better, when they adopt diets and exclude even items that might have seemed fine – like butter, cod liver oil, etc.
Then I think about Hope’s “Candy Bar Therapy” for her child. That sorta blows my theory, I guess.
Damn.
Maybe I’ll ponder this further, while eating a Hershey’s Chocolate bar.
One question I have about the vitamin A being a plant toxin theory is why is it so concentrated in fruits then? The fruit of the plant is designed to be eaten, surely that would be a bad design flaw?
Now I’m wondering, aside from color, what do vitamin A precursors do for plants?
Is it really high in fruit though Zach? I’m looking at bananas on nutritiondata.com and it has hardly any vitamin A at all. Oranges are higher but nothing like dark leafy greens.
Well I was thinking about cantaloupe, watermelon, tomato, etc. But I read that the precursor As are used for pigment and photosynthesis.
I don’t eat greens of any kind except for a bit of romaine here and there. No real veggies appeal to me.
Tomato’s have always made me feel bad and melons as well, wondering if the pigments have something to do with that.
Maybe part of the problem is that we don’t have winters anymore like in pre-agricultural times where you barely ate anything and burned through all your fat stores and stored micronutrients like vit A stored in the liver
Me too, Matt. LOL. : )
Holy sh@t did that stuff burn my face. I believe it was a clearish strong alcohol smelking gelI can’r believe I forgot all about this. I was 12, 13 or 14 when I used it. I am just glad I never took Accutane. The memories of 7th and 8th grade. Remember HEADGEAR? ROTFLOL.
Thanks for the trip down memory lane
Yeah, this could help explain people who see benefits from low fat diets, and certain elimination diets (dairy-free, gluten-free*) and even from fasting (water or juice). They might do better (even without many calories) because they’re unknowingly avoiding a toxin in their food (or a substance which is toxic to people who’ve had too much of it).
It also could partially help explain that tragic irony where the people who try to “eat healthy” and start eating kale and spinach and taking fish oil and eating liver, can end up getting worse and aging faster compared to the people who never cared about nutrition.
Also sorry to be the bearer of bad news but Retin-A is tretinoin and tretinoin is an isomer of isotretinoin which is Accutane. These compounds are essentially (functionally) the same as retinoic acid the body produces from retinol. I suspect the explanation for these being isomers lies in pharma companies wanting to create a chemically unique, patentable version of a naturally occurring chemical for sale.
Here’s what Genereux says about it:
“At this point you might be thinking: ‘just hold on here one minute; vitamin A (retinol) and isotretinoin are not the same molecules’. There are a lot of people with IBD that did not take Accutane, and therefore, all of this is not on the mark. Well, it is exactly on the mark because the human body, naturally and normally, converts some of the retinol consumed to retinoic acid, and to exactly this same isomer: 13-cis- retinoic acid, a.k.a.: isotretinoin. That’s right, we are all effectively taking very low doses. This exact molecule is normally produced and stored by the human body. The only difference here is dosage.” Genereux, ETFOH, p 168
*Genereux explains a possible mechanism for why gluten and casein allergies are related to retinol. The summary is that they become carrier proteins (not unlike the body’s own Retinol-Binding Protein) that allow retinol to essentially bypass normal digestion and sneak into places in the body where it causes inflammation / immune reaction. So it’s not actually the gluten that gluten sensitive and celiac people are reacting to ? it’s the retinol being bound up in the gluten.
Which makes sense to me because the idea of people being allergic to bread never seemed right to me. Sure, people are reacting terribly to bread ? but that it’s not actually an essential/ natural component of bread that’s causing it ? that makes a lot of sense to me.
Here’s a bit about that from Genereux:
“This hypothesis of gluten acting as a carrier molecule is actually not that speculative since something very similar was researched and documented back in the 1960s. The concern was that many commercial flours and bread products were starting to include emulsifiers. The emulsifiers included such compounds as monoglycerides, diglycerides, and other poly-compounds. To emulsify means to wrap and contain one compound within another. The observation was that these additional emulsifiers increased the absorption of vitamin A from food tremendously. The fear was that people with moderate to high levels of vitamin A in their diets could be at risk; so much so that their rates of actual vitamin A intake into their blood would be dangerously high. Of course, as a person’s vitamin A storage levels increases, their tolerable absorption rates into the liver will diminish. Therefore, over time, the situation becomes more and more risky. Additionally, as the intestine accumulates more local storage of vitamin A, these emulsifiers are not just going to transport more vitamin A from digesting food. They are also going to pick up locally tissue-stored vitamin A and carry it into the blood. So, just maybe, gluten is getting a bad rap here.”
– Chapter 20, ETFOH
Thanks for the Egyptian disease info.I never knew that. Obesity is also a condition dating back to 23, 000 B.C. at least. (Dr. Friedman)
Good info.
Just saw this: “The ancient Egyptians treated nightblindness with animal liver (where vitamin A is stored) 3500 years ago.”
http://www.laskerfoundation.org/awards/show/vitamin-a-therapy-for-preventing-infections-and-blindness/
Maybe, in their attempts to treat their nightblindness, they ended up with autoimmune/Vit A toxicity conditions?
Wonder why more A didn’t help my night blindness…
There is no citation for that statement at all, so I don’t know what makes them certain that ancient Egyptians had night blindness, were treated with liver, or were cured by the liver alone.
These kids have never eaten vitamin A. They look fine to me, and are squinting in the bright light, lol. https://gistonice.wordpress.com/2015/05/11/when-eating-only-meat-becomes-a-way-of-life-family-lives-on-only-meat-for-the-past-17-years/
Hahaha. I squint in bright light, too. I’d be interested to know if anyone in that family has night blindness. Couldn’t find any mention on their site.
Those boys have nice, wide jaws. Wasn’t that something Weston Price was talking about, back in the day?
Night Blindness and Ancient Remedy
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4348990
As for Grant’s blog, I sent links to his two main articles and his e-books to a gentleman that’s been in the nutrition field for several decades.
His reply:
“At the very least, it is well established that third world pregnant mothers who are seriously vitamin A deficient give birth to blind infants, and that vitamin A supplementation completely eliminates the problem.
It is also very well known that carotene is not toxic. Converted by the body into active vitamin A as needed, carotene (instead of fish oil preformed vitamin A) removes potential issues raised by the author.
I consider most but not all of the author’s arguments to be interesting but speculative. It is good that he has improved his health so well. I know of a number of persons with similar issues that have made similar improvements on very high quantity carrot/vegetable juice diets.”
I’m looking forward to your upcoming post on the matter. Perhaps include a link to Grant’s blog, so we can try to temporarily crash the hosting server. :-)
I know Weston A. Price had pictures of pigs born without eyes when their mothers were fully deprived of Vitamin A. Just another piece of info that vitamin A may indeed be essential and indeed be a vitamin.
As for carotene being non-toxic, Ray Peat has some info on the negatives of beta carotene. I don’t think it gets an instant pass. I also remember many years ago being sick and drinking nothing but orange juice for a day. I went to the beach the following day (which I was doing almost daily, so my skin was fully conditioned to long exposure at peak sunlight), and I immediately got completely burnt to a lobster-colored crisp. My skin hurt upon contact with the sun. I always wondered what caused that. It very well could have been the carotene from chugging 2 gallons of OJ in a single day. Who knows.
I have been wondering if those who have had amazing health improvements on a whole foods vegan diet (primarily fruits, vegetables, and juices), are those who don’t convert carotenes to vitamin A very well. That could ironically be something vegan diets have in common with the standard beef and water approach to zero carb carnivory.
Lazlo — thank you for that :)
Maybe the condition of Vit A toxicity comes about when there is a combination of excess Vit A consumption AND poor bile flow?
If that’s the case, then avoiding Vit A and/or improving bile flow should result in an improvement in health.
Matt,
That was interesting reading, regarding your drinking all that OJ and then, despite your having been conditioned to peak sunlight, your skin got fried.
Maybe it’s like the point you’ve made in your books that the dose makes the poison. Maybe a single glass of OJ would have been okay.
Of course, I really have no idea. Like you also wisely noted, the more I read, the more confused I get. At this point, I know very few absolutes.
Good point, too, about the possibility of some folks not being good converters of carotenes to vitamin A.
Currently, there is a “Toxic Home Transformation Summit” happening and one of the guest speakers in Ben Lynch. I typically pop-in on these various ‘Summits’ to see if there’s anything of interest. If so, I download it and watch/listen to it when time permits.
I know people have gone batty with the topic of genes, because I’ve heard people in the supplement aisle of Whole Foods Market telling the store employee “blah blah blah *MTHFR* blah blah blah.” Obviously, realizing there’s a mutation can be a huge deal for some folks, but there are thousands more genes.
Anyway, I downloaded a supplemental document to Dr. Ben Lynch’s book “Dirty Genes” (which I’ve not read) and he talks about “soaking and scrubbing” ALL one’s genes, to try to help ensure the best function possible. Ben has his own personal story about genetic SNPs and his son who is still slowly recovering from Autism.
So, as we’ve previously discussed, there’s probably a variety of things that could be impacting our individual experiences. Infections, mold, genes, the type of food/supplements we’re ingesting (does it need conversion or can it readily be absorbed), what other supplements/medications we might be taking, our metabolic function (of course!), sleep, stress, sun exposure, maybe even stuff like EMFs, and so on.
I think the tendency is to think that everyone is at the same level of health and genetics. So, if ‘X’ doesn’t work for a person, then they need something different. As opposed to considering if there is something about the person that is preventing ‘X’ from working.
Maybe a person does need a different approach (for example, diet) for their specific genes. But, is it because they have some different genes that are working correctly? Or, do they have the same genes that are being thwarted by viruses, bacteria, toxicants, etc.
Obviously, I don’t know enough about this to even ask a question that makes good sense. Much of this is a jumble in my mind. I wish we were all sitting around a table discussing it. That would be much more helpful and interesting.
Happy to help, turtlegurl! :)
I learn more from this blog and the comments from smart folks like you than I do from most every other “health” resource I find online.
Hi turtlegurl…I’ve read that taurine supplements improve bile synthesis and flow which could help to clear excess vitamin A from the liver.
Have you ever tried taking taurine?
Lazlo — I really love this blog, too :)
Long live the D!
Magic Maker — thank you for that. I recently read that about taurine and am fascinated at how it has come up again. I bought a bottle of taurine last year for my night blindness, but maybe I didn’t take enough of it. Taurine helps protect and/or create rhodopsin, which the rods in your retina use for low-light conditions.
This just gets interesting-er and interesting-er ;)
Btw, vitamin A in excess is acknowledged to be toxic by mainstream medicine. Genereux just takes it further and says that it’s always toxic, it’s just a matter of how long it takes for the body’s storage to be overloaded.
Here it is from an official source:
“Normal doses of vitamin A are not associated with liver injury or liver test abnormalities, but higher doses (generally more than 40,000 IU daily, ~12,000 ?g) can be toxic. Acute toxicity is caused by a single or a few repeated very high doses (generally >100 times the RDA), arising within days to weeks with a typical symptom complex of severe headache, nausea, vertigo, blurred vision, muscle aches and lack of coordination, followed by skin desquamation and alopecia. Severe overdose can cause increased cerebral spinal fluid pressure, progressive drowsiness and coma. Chronic hypervitaminosis A usually arises 3 months to many years after starting moderately high levels of vitamin A (generally 10 times the RDA) and is marked by dry skin, cheilosis, gingivitis, muscle and joint pains, fatigue, mental dullness, depression and liver test abnormalities. Serum bilirubin is typically only mildly elevated. Serum aminotransferase and alkaline phosphatase levels are variably increased, but usually only 1 to 4 times the upper limit of normal. Serum vitamin A levels are typically, but not invariably elevated. Liver biopsy is diagnostic and shows enlarged, lipid-laden stellate cells with variable degrees of sinusoidal fibrosis. The liver may be hypoechogenic on ultrasound examination and suggest the diagnosis of nonalcoholic fatty liver disease, but the lipid-laden cells found on liver biopsy are not hepatocytes, but rather stellate cells (formerly known as Ito cells or hepatic lipocytes) which contain excess vitamin A. Chronic, moderately high doses of vitamin A (generally over 1 to 8 years) can lead to portal hypertension with ascites and esophageal varices, even before frank cirrhosis can be shown to be present. *While high doses of vitamin A are usually achieved by vitamin A supplements, hypervitaminosis A can also occur with excessive dietary intake of liver, particularly that of carnivores (bears, seals, dogs) or salt-water fish (cod liver oil).*
Mechanism of Injury
Vitamin A in high doses is a direct toxin. Excess vitamin A is stored in stellate cells in the liver and accumulation can lead to their activation and hypertrophy, excess collagen production, fibrosis and liver injury. The toxicity is dose related and can be reproduced in animal models.
Outcome and Management
The liver injury caused by high doses of vitamin A is reversible in its early stages, but may resolve only slowly with discontinuation of ingestion and resumption of a normal diet. Patients should be specifically told to avoid all vitamin supplements that contain vitamin A and to follow a low vitamin A diet. In general, patients with known chronic liver diseases should avoid ingestion of more than the minimal daily requirement of vitamin A as underlying liver disease appears to increase the susceptibility to vitamin A toxicity.”
https://livertox.nlm.nih.gov/VitaminARetinoids.htm
Interesting that the livers of carnivores have higher vitamin A content. Is that from eating herbivore livers?
How about this?
Vitamin A Supplementation for Preventing Morbidity and Mortality in Children from Six Months to Five Years of Age: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/28282701
@Carl
Genereux discusses the programs for supplementing vitamin A in third world countries in detail in his second book ‘Poisoning for Profits’, which is also a free pdf on his blog. This is where it gets really wild.
He says: “With the Western medical community so absolutely convinced of vitamin A deficiency and its endemic nature in Southeast Asia they have been supplementing kids and adults in this region for decades and decades. Yes, it has been a huge humanitarian effort funded by tens of millions of dollars per year from Western taxpayers.
And for decades and decades, there’s been a repeated little glitch randomly showing up. This little glitch is in addition to the initiation of the infectious diseases, and the autoimmune diseases, the supplementation is causing. That glitch is that some kids simply die when given a dose of vitamin-A. That’s correct, giving a vitamin supplement to younger kids sometimes kills them. Yet, very paradoxically, the younger kids are the ones in the least need of the supplementation.”
And then he quotes a mainstream source that admits that vitamin A supplementation is killing children:
“Source: VITAMIN-A DEFICIENCY
Health, Survival, and Vision, page 38
> Less clear is the reason why the youngest children (one to three months) given a large dose of vitamin-A 100,000 IU may have suffered increased mortality. Very young infants probably metabolize vitamin-A differently than older children with more mature metabolic systems. […]
> Even more surprising, the apparent (but not statistically significant) excess mortality is predominantly confined to the best nourished (i.e. lease wasted) children (Fig. 2 ? 14) (West KP, Kats J., Sommer A. unpublished data). The following observations are consistent with preliminary reports from one mortality trial suggesting that an apparent increase in acute lower respiratory infections is most pronounced among better nourished children receiving high-dose vitamin-A. These unexpected findings await confirmation and a biological explanation.”
And Genereux says: “This statement is a remarkable, if not astonishing, display of scientific arrogance. Who the hell are they to say that it’s not ‘statistically significant’ to be killing children? I guess it’s not ‘statistically significant’ when it’s not their kids that are being killed.
And if they are looking for a biological explanation, it is incredibly trivially easy to see it. The better-nourished children already have ample stores in their livers. Therefore, the rate at which they can absorb, and safely absorb, a large vitamin-A dose is less than other children. Since it cannot be stored quickly, and without adequate fats and proteins, it is toxic. Its toxicity causes the destruction of the epithelial tissue leading to infection and maybe even blindness. So, there, done; biologically explained! Just as astonishing is their refusal to see and come to terms with reality. The reality is that it’s the perfectly healthy infants who have the lowest vitamin A stores.”
Chapter 7, Poisoning for Profits
https://ggenereuxblog.files.wordpress.com/2018/05/poisoningforprofits.pdf
Longtime — I started reading PFP after you talked about Genereux here (thank you for doing that) but have not yet gotten to this part of the book. I had been wondering if he would have anything to say about the massive doses of Vit A given to people in other countries, as you mention in your post here.
Last year, when I was doing more research about what might help my own night blindness, I came across many mentions of these massive doses of A given in other countries — and I’m pretty sure the pieces always said that it cured any existing cases of night blindness. Do you know if Genereux comments on that?
As I mentioned in a previous post, my attempts to heal my night blindness using Vit A supplements and fish oil went exactly nowhere. But I did get a raging episode of extreme hyperthyroidism, which would fit with Genereax’s thinking.
The Egyptians (not the elites obviously) got most of their calories from bread and beer. Meat was a luxury. They supplemented with a few veg like leeks. How did they o.d. on vitamin A?
I’m guessing that the only records from that long ago dealt with the ailments of the elites.
Fair enough
@Longtime Anon:
This is definitely interesting. I was planning to take a “vacation” from nutrition science like Carl but now I have to go down this rabbit hole lol. Some thoughts:
A) I thought autoimmune disease by definition is your own immune system (mistakenly) attacking your body? Isn’t that what’s destroying the myelin sheaths, the gut barrier and so on? Is this guy disputing that and saying no, it’s the retinol doing the damage?
B) As for the “is it a coincidence…” part, I agree with Matt. Everything went up since 1950 to present day so anyone can use it for their argument.
C) That all autoimmune involves the epithelium was very interesting. For Konstantin, the theory of everything is fiber=bad, and he hypothesized that fiber was physically blocking the ducts of the pancreas, the liver and the gallbladder, setting into motion a domino effect that eventually leads t IBS, IBD, Crohn’s, Colitis and so forth. And Genereux has the same idea, but instead the ducts are damaged by retinol. Hmm
D) Some if you may remember Richard Nikoley, one of the OG nutrition bloggers. His attempt at a theory of everything settled on food “enrichment”, particularly Iron, how it’s a pro oxidant and sets into motion diabesity and auto immune. Now you told me that processed foods are enriched with retinol, another interesting coincidence.
E) Finally, the body usually excretes any excesses vitamins and minerals that it doesn’t need. Why can’t it do the same with vit. A?
Is this the same “retinol” that is used to reduce wrinkles? Since skin is the largest organ of the body, I would assume it’s getting in through the skin as well.
Yes — and apparently there are a lot of people who have developed symptoms of Vit A toxicity after they started using retinol creams.
Of course, with all of this, we don’t know what’s causation and what’s just correlation. There are just so many moving parts….
@Skeptic
A). It’s more complicated than that. Here is a summary from Ch 12 of ETFOH.
“Therefore, the chain reaction looks like this:
? Excess serum retinol
? absorbed into the cell
? cell converts to retinoic acid
? cell generates cytokines
? immune cells respond
? attack the cell
? inflammation
? cell’s destruction
? growth hormone released”
If that doesn’t answer your question, in the book he goes into more detail than you probably want ;)
Oh I like detail ????. I’m definitely going to buy this book. And I hate to do this but I have to pull the “what about the Inuit tho?”card. They eat a lot of seafood, including seal which you said is one of the highest, and other fish fats and liver. Why aren’t they rife with autoimmune disease? How does Genereux explain that?
There’s very conflicting information about the original Inuit cultures. But today’s Inuit are probably some of the sickest people on the planet along with native Polynesian cultures.
One thing is they are typically fatter in general which might be a coping mechanism for the high vitamin A diet.
Well you know the excuse for that is post contact foods like flour and sugar. And I also just thought of the Okinawans, lot’s of fish, pork less often, and lots of sweet potatoes (beta carotene)
His ebooks are free PDFs ?I guess I should have mentioned that from the start.
I don’t know. There’s no mention of the Inuit in his books, but you can ask him yourself on his blog: https://ggenereux.blog/
@Skeptic
You mentioned sweet potatoes. In ch. 21 of ETFOH, Genereux talks about something relevant:
“The video cited above is about the extraordinarily high rates of Alzheimer’s in Yarumal, a town in Northern Colombia. There is also a disproportionately high rate of early onset there too. Researchers are attributing this high rate of Alzheimer’s to a specific genetic mutation. And yes, it could be. But it might not be a genetic mutation in just the people, but rather one in a plant they eat.
I need to leave the fish theme behind on this one because Yarumal is landlocked, and about 2,265 m above sea level. But, it just happens to be that this region of Colombia is quite high in the consumption of sweet potatoes. Early Spanish settlers referred to sweet potatoes as a land truffle. It’s also somewhat established that this region is probably the very origin of the sweet potato plant being used as a food source. With about 19,000 IU of vitamin A per cup (133g), that’s no small factor. Secondarily, it appears that in addition to sweet potato being a regular part of the diet, it’s customary here to eat organ meats, including liver. On top of that consider that chili powder contains about 30,000 IU per 100 grams.
People in this region could be consuming huge amounts of vitamin A, and not realize it, or even be aware of the risks.
Now, specifically, with regards to dietary patterns in the town of Yarumal, I don’t have data. However, I was able to investigate it some and it turns out that Higado con Salsa Criolla (liver with creole sauce) is a traditional Colombian dish there. If combined with sweet potatoes, a single meal could easily be as high as 60,000 IU of vitamin A.”
Btw, in this same chapter he also proposes an explanation for how vitamin A causes hair graying / whitening (he also claims his vitamin A elimination diet reversed his hair graying: “Now, what would cause this whitening? It’s simple actually. It has been bleached from the roots out. Remember that the immune cells generate and use hydrogen peroxide to kill pathogens and poorly behaving cells. With that little bit of knowledge, the chain reaction looks like this:
Vitamin A builds up in the sebaceous glands around the hair follicles ? RA-induced cytokine callouts ? immune cells respond ? secretes hydrogen peroxide ? bleaches hair follicle
How long does this complicated graying process take to really kick-in? Well, it used to normally take about 70 years. In my generation in Canada, it is usually taking about 50 to 55 years. But, in the current generation it is now happening in people as young as 30, or even 20 years old.”
Coincidentally, I recently stumbled across a whole subgenre on youtube of young women confessing to having gray hairs even some who started graying in their teens. Here’s an example: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bu8Ejkxzr5A
I spent time very close to this region in Colombia last year, and in fact met a girl whose mother had very early Alzheimer’s (she was only about 50 years old), and another in her 30’s already complaining of memory loss (her last name Gaviria for you Narcos fans). But I don’t remember seeing anyone eating sweet potatoes at all. It was typical Latin cuisine: beans, rice, thick corn tortillas (arepas), fresh cheese, small cabbagey salads like cole slaw, potato and meat-filled empanadas, and lots of poultry and pork sausage. Some fruit and soft drinks. Some small potatoes. Plantains. Stuff like that.
On another note, my girlfriend is convinced that I have less gray hair since embarking on a very low-fat diet a couple months ago. I thought I noticed it too, but you know how things like that go. Sometimes your eyes play tricks on you and you start to believe your new dietary escapade is doing things it really isn’t, lol.
Yeah so why don’t the Okinawans have sky high Alzheimer’s? (It’s the opposite in fact)
@matt: in Salt, Sugar, Fat the author was talking about how the U.S. still sells banned chemicals like DDT to 3rd world countries like Latin America, who used it on their corn and so on. I bet that has something to do with all this Alzheimer’s and early onset going around.
I started reading the PDF but I’m kinda skeptical. The list of foods with vit A is so huge, you’d think 95% of the word would have autoimmune. Also foods that have been shown to be protective against dementia and Alzheimer’s–fish, greens, berries–are all high in vitamin A. Something doesn’t add up here.
I’m starting to read it as well. It’s certainly interesting. I don’t think anyone’s Vitamin A cup would be likely to runneth over from eating natural foods alone, unless you were just pounding liver. But I could see it being possible that taking a shitload of vitamins, eating fortified foods, covering yourself in acne cream, taking birth control pills (which raise vitamin A levels), and so on could turn vitamin A-rich foods into villains. But we’ll see.
I’ve been keeping an eye out these past few days on nutrition labels, specifically Vitamin A content. The junk foods–cookies, chips, candy bars–don’t have any. So I looked at my shelves and fridge: the pasta and rice don’t have it, and surprisingly not even the flour nor the bread. The dairy is where the action is! The butter, cream, cheese, cream cheese and milk all had vitamin A palmitate added, with the milk being the highest by far.
I think it’s less the corporations and more the government doing it.
Something like 65% of people in the U.S. take a multivitamin with Vitamin A in it every single day for decades. Women even more so than men.
I also saw in a study that birth control pills raise Vitamin A levels. This is particularly interesting in terms of autoimmune disease, since only women take birth control pills and autoimmune disease is 3-4X more prevalent in women than in men.
I think the main concern is retinoic acid, the active and toxic form of vitamin A. Lard is a big one as well as cooked dairy and fatty seafood. Retinoic acid is what destroys cells and is at least supposedly causing the auto immune epidemic. I doubt anyone will overdose on A from whole foods alone unless they eat a lot of liver or juice carrots daily. Lots of yams could do it too.
His auto immune theory makes sense. People are blaming IBS on all these trigger foods but what caused the leaky gut in the first place. It could be retinoic acid destroying the epithelial lining of the gut, just like eczema is the skin being destroyed from the bottom up.
And how does Ray Peat say vitamin A is toxic but advise you to eat the foods highest in it like butter, lard, cream, milk, eggs and liver, and carrots?
I don’t think Ray is anti vitamin A. Far from it. He seems to be against beta carotene though.
Skeptic, RP says dosing of retinol should be dependent on thyroid status and how much vit D your getting through sunlight. He does think vitamin A can be toxic if one is leaning toward hypo. He also recommends a lower fat diet in general, he definitely does not recommend a ton of full fat dairy, no lard at all and only 1-2 eggs a day. Zero carotene or lycopene foods except for the carrot salad which he recommends washing the shreds first to remove as much carotene as possible.
Huh that’s news to me. Most of what I know about Peat comes from Danny Roddy, since Peat is one of those annoying “I don’t give practical advice or guidelines” kind of people, and Roddy recommends a shit ton of milk, OJ, and Coca Cola, plus coffee with heavy cream and crazy sugar.
Zach, what kind of practitioner diagnosed you with Ankylosing Spondylitis? I had never heard of it until you mentioned it, so I looked it up. Many of the symptoms are similar to those my husband experiences. How are you treating it? Any info you can provide would be appreciated.
Ugh I just wrote a super long thing and it didn’t publish.
Rheumatologist diagnoses by testing for a gene expression and also symptoms. AS attacks central joints, back, neck, sternum, hips. Mainstream treats it with powerful TNF blockers and anti inflammatories but those will kill you long term. Fringe theory’s target the gut and a specific gram negative bacterium called klebseila. Antibiotics might help as well as a starch free diet. For me, just staying anabolic and eating tons of food keeps it at bay. Lots of sunlight as well.
Zach,
Would the following e-book be of use or interest to you?
http://www.DrAmyYasko.com/wp-content/files_flutter/1327512160_9_1_1_8_pdf_02_file.pdf
Don’t let the title prevent you from scanning the Table of Contents. Look at the items listed in Chapter 2 and onward.
It looks like an interesting very in depth book and if someone were to talk at me about the subject, I’d listen. But honestly I don’t have to patience to read PDFs anymore. I’d rather read my fantasy/historical fiction. I’m ate a very good place diet wise with zero supplementation and I don’t plan on changing that any time soon.
Another aside about vitamin A, I wonder what happens with the retinol content of dairy/eggs when they are heavily cooked? I know A is very light and heat sensitive. Does destroying the A make in unavailable for us or just worse to consume? Either way I’m not giving up dairy or eggs but I’m definitely avoiding fatty fish, liver and red/orange plants for the most part.
Zach,
I understanding about reading PDFs — especially when they may relate to something that’s not a pressing concern for you. I’m glad you seem to be doing well.
Thanks! Great info!
I really wish listening to biofeedback was emphasized more in mainstream culture. Even with regard to pufas,I love ’em.I could eat fish and nuts every fricking day. Nothing makes me feel as satisfied as oily fish.I always saw this as a good thing. I also love dairy, so I guess I love saturated fat too. Reading about the dangers of pufa,should I try to eat less? I’m a peanut butter junkie. Most of my calories probably comes from nuts. I have become exhausted trying to keep up with what foods I should feel bad about eating. Sometimes it’s nice to just eat what sounds good and move on, and in ways I think a shorter life with good eatin’ would be much more appealing than a restrictive lengthy one.
Zach and Matt: on the ultra-low fat and high calorie eating plan, did you start losing fat and feeling warmer right away? Or did those things not kick in until you got up to a certain number of calories? I’m at the end of Week #1, only up to 2,300-2,500 calories, not noticing much yet.
I lost 40lbs in about 4 months so pretty rapid but not crazy. I don’t remember how fast I started feeling better overall.
Hey turtlegirl, I’ve been eating around 3700-4000kcal/day of foods mostly coming from carbs for about a month, and everything seems to work mostly fine. The macro breakdown is usually like this: Protein=90~120g, Fat=19~30g, Carbs=750~900g. The carbs are mainly from a lot of white rice, fruit juices and some starchy veggies like squashes, sweet potatoes, etc. I eat out with my family once a week and the plan is not always consistent but I always try my best. The major health improvement is that I’m always steamy hot especially after eating something, whereas high fat high calorie meal made me hot temporarily but gradually got me a bit cold, even if it was mostly saturated fats. Unlike a lot of people in the Ray Peat camp I don’t cut out starches because I do crave them pretty often, especially when eating some steamed seafood (though I have to agree I would drink fruit juice instead of just eating white rice). Some other notable changes are the improvement in sex drive and clearing of my skin. The fats are still hanging tight on my body, but I’ll wait and see if something good happens.
Regarding the calorie intake, are you planning to increase it over a long period of time? For instance, adding 200kcal of carbs (starches or simple sugars, based on your preference)each week. I do fine on 3700-4000kcal, but may increase it gradually for an experimental purpose.
Juan — thanks for the response. Sounds like you are having good success with this plan.
I can’t tell yet if it’s helping me. I am planning to increase my calories, as I’m able — maybe that will start the magic? When I’m eating fats, I have no problem getting to 3,000 calories, but take those out, and the volume of food required…..
Thanks for the update Juan!
Yeah I’d say heat and calories go together. I can feel hot or cold on a low-fat diet. Calories are the difference maker, unsurprisingly.
Hi Matt,
You know that I like you. :)
I say this totally respectfully. This is the mistake Lyle and many other bloggers-Guyenet, Fell, Krieger make. Heat is radiation. Stuff for sure. Calories are one arbitrary unimportant unit (coukd be thriwn out for usage this very moment)among many, many -it is embrassment that we have all these units. Heat is part of the electromagnetic field, infrared is the heat-We humans cannot see heat but Pitt Vioers can. We could just as easily measure heat energy using joules, BTU, inverse fermions. The infrared portion of the electromagnetic wave lengths is the HEAT,
Heat and calories, joules, inverse fermions are very different. One is stufd a phenomenon, the others entireky made up and fictiinal
Tnere is no such thing or stuff or entity as calories IN food. When gurus compare calories with carbs or fat it makes no sense..What actual STUFF are they comlaring. Calories are not….. ANYTHING whatsiever.
they are treating calories an a separte entity in food versus carbs or fatzthis is totally NOT the case. Colpo has gross ignorance. Zero caloroe drinks are a LIE as physicists have written about.
Without electromagetism matter woukd dissolve as Dr. Krauss noted on video.
Lyle is engaging in the reification of a fiction called
calories. They are just a dopey unit, nothing soecial at all.
There is no such thing as pure energy or a particle MADE of energy.
Lyle cannot wrap his head around that calo ries are fictitious no such entity exists whatsiever in Nature. Heat exists and can act, it is radiation. There is nothing intrinsic about calories to food, rhe same is equally true about joukes or kilowatthoirs or what have you. Everybodu ereonrously believes that “calories” are some invisible nebulous entity in food. That is not at all the case. We have matter, atoms fields but energy and its units are entireky FICTITIOUS number fiction we ASSIGN to actual things that exist-atoms, fie,ds, radiation.
All we have are atoms vibrating. When they vibrate vigorously enough they emit light ahd heat -radiation etc, Think matter in motion.
I hope you can dole out some
asthma advice for us. You seem very experienced. I have had asthma probably as long as you but mine was “off and on” and mainly off , rather than on. So, I habe not had many attacks.
No problem Matt! Like you said, I guess it really boils down to how well you’re eating when it comes to a low fat diet. Any caloric deficit, both intentional and unintentional, freezes us up like crazy unless the adrenals keep the temp high in short term. Even I can still make myself icy cold and anxious, especially in the morning, when I eat nothing when being so hungry. All that negative signs instantly turn off after eating a high calorie carb rich meal, which is obviously a good sign.
TAKE THIS INFORMATION AND SPREAD IT FAR AND WIDE -Some highly competent top tier physicists ( genuine Ph.D.’s as well as graduate students from the Perimeter Institute recently answered a question on Quora named “What Is Energy”
I will write this as my “magnum opus” to debunk the various gurus about the topic of energy and their misrepresentation and ignorance of it . Lyle McDonald, Anthony Colpo, CarbSane,Bill Lagakos, Steve Parker, Stephan Guyenet, Kevin Hall, Richard Nikoley , many medical doctors, low level scientists even – and members of various forums such as MyFitnessPal and more- are smug disingenuous/ignorant people who hold many misconceptions and tremendous misunderstandings about what “energy” is. The cream of the crop physicists out there understand that the public holds many wrong views about energy.
Quora Question : What Is Energy? ( I will sum up all of the truly expert physicists’ answers ( not the lower tier or the non-physicist types who are not at all in the know- energy is most definitely NOT the ability to do work- all the textbooks are wrong, as Feynman noted. These are lies we tell gradeschool kids unfortunately) All top tier, first rate physicists and graduate students realize the following information below:
Physicists’ Answers: “In short,brief answer is…… N-O-T-H-I-N-G.
Energy is nothing but a N-U-M-B-E-R ( a totally abstract matthematical FICTION) describing the relationship between stuff or things. Physicists INVENTED alll these FICTIONS- calories, joules, inverse fermions, kilowaytt hours, BTU- these are ALL EXACTLY THE SAME- and we have farrrr too many units to measure some abstract mathematical FICTION, a NUMBER, we call “energy.”
IMPORTANT, PLEASE TELL the SUPREMELY IGNORANT AND PHYSICS ILLITERATE SHYSTERS, CARBSANE, ANTHONY COLPO, RICHARD NIKOLEY, ( especially) LYLE MCDONALD, STEPHAN GUYENET, JAMES KRIEGER AND JAMES FELL THIS:
~~~~~~When objects ( STUFF, matter ) interact with each other, we can do an ACCOUNTING of these interactions, using a totally abstract quantity or NUMBER, that we humans CALL “energy.” BUT , energy is NOT ANY – ANY SORT OF EXTRA THING OR STUFF IN THAT PROCESS WHATSOEVER!!!!!~~~~~~~~~~~.
This is crucial to understand!!!!!!
^^^^^^^^THAT ABOVE IS THE MOST IMPORTANT SENTENCE IN THE ARTICLE.^^^^^^^^^^
Guyenet and McDonald CANNOT grasp that above!!!!!!
To quote Richard Feynman:
“Energy is NOT ANY description of a mechanism.It is JUST a strange fact that when ( humans) can calculate SOME NUMBR and when we finish watching Nature go through its tricks and manifold changes and we humans calculate the number again- it is the SAME.”
And this is only true locally, not on a VAST COSMIC SCALE- NOT in the case of the rapidly expanding universe where this number, “energy” is NOT conserved at all. This number, “energy”, is also either not conserved ( or it gets squirrely) in certain situations within General Relativity, as Sean Carroll notes.
Energy is a totally abstract, invented, FICTITIOUS, mathematical fiction, a made up, useful, convenient tidy bookeeping , am ACCOUNTING TRICK done by people, some a NUMBER human physicists can COMPUTE. As Alan Guth has stated on video. energy is a CHARACTERISTIC O-N-L-Y -that we humans assign to objects. THAT IS ALLLL energy IS. THE END.
When physicists talk about “energy” transforming from one form to another , they are speaking in a VERY, VERY LAZY “SHORTHAND.”
ENERGY IS NOTHING. CALORIES ARE NOTHING.Yes, read the again- NOTHING. CALORIES ARE ENTIRTELY FICTITIOUS INVENTIONS, AS ARE JOULES AND INVERSE FERMIONS AND ALL THESE OTHER CRAZY INVENTIONS- wer do not need anymore inventions ( units) to measure some number called energy. Feynman himself said this. He thought it is ABSURD all the inventions we use- all; these units to measure “energy”, a toally abstract mathematical quanity.
Radio waves are invisible, nebulous intangible, STUFF- stuff that can act and is all around us. SUCH IS NOT-
N-O-T at all the case for “energy”. ( Lyle McDonald cannot grasp that energy is NOT like radio waves etc.) Energy is a totally FICTITIOUS, INVENTED “bookeeping device”. Energy has no existence in itself. It is NOT ANY- ANY kind of entity in Nature. It is mathematical fiction. Radio waves are part of the electromagnetic FIELD. Fields are stuff, too. Fields become excited. The wind FIELD becomes excited and your hair may get all messed up and blow all over the place etc. We humans ASSIGN A NUMBER we call “energy” to FIELDS and objects etc. Radiation, fields etc. are NOT matter BUT they also A are N O T energy. Photons are NOT energy despite the common view….. Photons are STUFF. You CAN make a photon beam. You CANNOT make an “energy beam” or dasmage cells or act in ANY way on cells with energy. Energy is a very SUBTLE SUBJECT. Energy does NOT make things or objects or stuff move or go. Rather, it is when an object is in motion we say it has or possesess “energy”. We assign a number to it. Einstein mathematically related REST-energy with mass Eo=mc2.Mass and energy are NOT the same, as Lev Okun said , but I will not get into that. It is complicated.
Matter ( something very different from mass, mass is only a property NOT stuff) and energy are NOT related at all. Matter is stuff, energy a fiction. Nor does matter turn into energy. Lev Okun hated this misconception that it does.
Energy and its units CANNOT AND DO NOT ACT on any stuff !!!!!!! Useful fictions CANNOT act on matter.
~~~~If you are going to say “energy made it move” or “energy did this” or energy did that” , you MIGHT AS WELL SAY “Hoonani” made it move or “the imaginary friend” made it move…… Or “MAGIC” made it move, as Feynman worded it…..
~~~~~Energy can NEVER be used as ANY kind description, any kind of explanation or any kind of mechanism for a phenomenon. EVER. Feynman, himself, was super clear on this, as was Steven Weinberg.
@ I hope Stephan Guyenet and Lyle McDonald “hear this loud and clear” and this article makes its way back to them !I hope THEIR READERS SEE IT, TOO. I have spent 10 years studying this particular subject of “energy” intensively. I have the full support of TOP theoretical physicists relaying this subject of energy.
Energy is not , itself, A- N- Y- T- H- I- N- G. NO SUCH THING, STUFF OR ENTITY EXISTS IN Nature.Calories , BTU, inverse fermions- THEY ARE N-O-T-H-I-N-G either. Even J. Stanton of GNOLLS cannot garsp this. ( but he seems like a good, friendly guy).
What is energy? Tell Stephan Guyenet this :
N-O-T-H-I-N-G……nothing but a totally abstract human invented mathematical FICTION. That is the CORRECT answer from Ph.D.’s from Perimeter Instittuite. That is the most succint honest answer.
I, Razwell, cannot stress this enough: “Energy” is O=N=L=Y an ACCOUNTING TRICK INVENTED BY PEOPLE, this is why you hear that it cannot be created or destroyed or that it does not have to come from somewhere. “Energy” NEVER WAS ANYTHING in Nature to begin with!!!!! Not ANY kind of stuff, – NOT nebulous ,NOT intangible,NOT invisble or OTHERWISE…NOTHING -NOTHING but fiction, a useful fiction. Hopefully, this article will make Lyle McDonald et al understand what “energy” is…..
Who cares how flammable food is or its combustive qualities? This does not tell us anything about the dysregulation of fat cells, nor the partitioning of ingested food fuel , how nutrients affect fat cells. nor teh chemical behvior of fat cells and how they hoard.
Spread this far and wide when you get the chance and make sure these ttoally misinformed gurus and their misled readers see it.
Thank you.
Sincerely,
Razwell, (a Zorro of sorts against guru misinformation and misrepresentation of physics). LOL !!!!!!!!!!
Black Holes push our (invented) physics theories and laws, principles to their absolute limit and beyond to the breaking point. Nature is under no obligation to “obey” ANY law physicists have. The dopey CICO dogmatists need to learn this and understand it. Rather, physicists must obey the universe. As Dr. Krauss said on a Discovery show, we mat have the physics of Black Holes (the very, very little we know , all wrong.
There is far more we do NOT know about this universe than we knowl Quasars, and especially, Black Holes, humble us and show us our physics breaks down
I gteatly dislike Sagan and Neil Tyson, they were /are incompetent. I just read a Sagan article from 1978 where he got E=mc2 allllllll wrong BLUNDERED IT, total misinformation. Enwrgy and matter do NOT convert into one another and back again. Energy is not at all stuff or anything otber than some nu ber we can compute. Matter is actual stuff. Art Hobson and Lev Okun noted that abstract characteristics, numbers do NOT convert to matter. Einy’s equation has major misconceptions behund it. All Eo=mc2 means is that it equates an object’s mass with an objectxs” REST-energy”(not total energy and it applies to ibjects sitting still) ) For objects in motiin E is always GREATER than mc2
Tyson ssid matter to energy trsnsformation and conversion , too. I shook my head!I now know where he got it from and suspected that all aoong. Sagan was denied tenure (rightfulky) by his collesgues who viewed yim as a pompous pontificating self absored self promoting “a# #hole ‘overstating science, and having very trivial and derivative work of his own-in his colleagues own words.
I am very wary of science popularizers-they are these evangelists, glorifying a fallible human made endeavor. He even stole that evidence quote rrom Marco Truzzi-itz’s not even a true. At tbe forefront of physics there is so much going on now that leaves Sagan behind as an out of date dinosaur. Physics may turn out to be an “environmental science” say the best ones today.We could have many many universes a Multiverse. We MAY (not likely but very possible) even kive IN a Black Hole as Michelle Thaller states. Steve Weinberg is 100 times the scientist Sagan ever dreamed of being and a 100 times more competent than Sagan
The only ways for us to lose fat tissue (or any other form of tissue like muscle tissue)is for it to be excreted and physically removed. Atoms must be removed or excreted.
This can be done surgically or we could breathe them out. Or another way is to be VAPORIZED by the jet stream of particles from quasars. ROTFLOL. Earth woukd never survive if we were in its pathway.
Fat tissue can be damaged by radiation.
All those (used) atoms that underwent the chemical oxidation/reduction/redox reaction are STILL there, they must be removed from a person’s body to lose any form of matter be it muscle tissue or fat tissue.
Energy out is fiction not any explanation, nor accurate descriptiin. You might as well say Magic In /Magic Oit .MIMO. A new acronym!Feynman said that whenever energy is erroneously used to describe or explain
any mechanism , you might as well say MAGIC DID IT,
Fat tissue is matter “Energy expenditure ” will not cause the removal of tissue, matter. The MECHANISM at its core (there are steps leading up to this) is atom , particularly CARBON excretion and removal, atoms are stuff, things, entities that exist.
WE are CARBON based life and the main reason we eat is to replenish carbon stores. Unlike entirely fictional calories, carbon is REAL STUFF.
Physicists and all sciemtists have their fu damental assumptiins aboit how the univers works. But Nature is totally free to do whatever the hell it wants to. Our pictures and models (laws) principles are tremendously challenged by BlackHoles. When a Black Hole evaporates and leaves behind onky thermal radiation (all information being lost about the objects that fell in) that represents a paradox , violates what quantum mechanics principles and that is a supreme problem that modern day physicists cannot at all currently solve.
Physicists and their “laws” obey Nature, NOT the other way around. CarbSane , Colpo, Mcdonald and Guye et need to hear this loid and clear. I totally think theynare incompetent not u derstandingthis. All top tier physicists already know and understand this point. The too tier elite physicists are not snobs, they are very humbke and do nkt “glorify” science. They knkw it is onky some techniques people made up. The more we learn tje more we knkw we do not know sh@t.The mkre we look deeply into this the less we understand. It BOGGLES my mind how veey, very little we know about the universe.
Dr. Krauss and others state it is even POSSIBLE Black Holes do not exist, or this effect we observe is due to something else.
We observe , physicists make models, pictures, theories , principles. The observations we make are NOT the laws, like Feynman wrote. Recently, The Perimeter Institutexs scientists’ ask if speed of light is variable and changes. Recently, this same institution is working on if TIME and why its directiin is forwardly. The same institute is asking IF the Principles of physics EVOLVE with time -time bieng MOST fundamental in physics, above all.
We cannot probe to the Planck length nkr even near it , what we think is the smallllest limit of how small an object can get.. WHO KANKWS what exists there ! MUCH PHYSICS IS LEFT to be learned.
The STUFFINESS , suredness, smugness, that Harriet Hall, Guyenet and Lyle McDonakd write overly glorifying science and acting as EVANGELISTS for it, is not only TOTALLY
UNJUSTIFIED and inappropeiate BUT ALSO beyond OUTRAGEOUS.
Nature is in charge, NOT ?
our sciende. Our HUMBLE , modest, inaccurate , very approximate,super fallible science must OBEY NATURE….. Nature does not,five two poops aboit oir fallible best guessess that comstitute our models.
I can say for 100% sure that the caloroe model people are physics illiterate dogmatists, or casual readers. I get banned and flagged instantky on MyFitnessPal for even remotely bringing up the FACT that “energy” is a human invented, totally fictitious accounting trick. As it is , itself, NOTHING, energy can NEVER be used to explain , nor describe any ohenomenon kr be used to explain any mechanism. Usu g energy to explain ANY mechanjsm is exzctky the same as saying MAGIC did it. Feynman HIMSELF stated this!
These calorie morons have B A L L S insulting Taubes.He at least gave an explanation. I have never encountered a bigger pack of zealots, MISINFORMED zealots mind you. They do not understand anything about “energy” yet smugly throw the tern around routinely, misunderstanding not only
what “energy” IS AND failing to u derstand that energy CANNOT and does NOT act on human bodies.
Insulin is, at least, in principle, a VALID EXOLANATIIN as insulin is STUFF an important hormone and CAN ACT on cells. ^is is un
UNLIKE calories and energy-theynare FICTITIOUS AND DO NKT ACT on any human body. I know the biochemistry and genetcs (which Are Stuff, UNLIKE energy and calories) is very incomplete and mkre comolex than just “insulin does it” (makes you fat)
Calories cannot do sh@t to a human body. They , unlike insulin, do not even exist, theynare totally fictitious.
Matt in your knowledge and experience, how soon does this anti weight loss defense system kick in?(lowered temps and metabolism, increased hunger, etc)
Pretty much immediately, and then it slowly and steadily worsens.
Hi Matt…been lurking here for a long time. I just had to chime in and say that I agree with many of your conclusions.
I’ve been meticulously tracking every morsel of food/beverage that enters my mouth for years. I use a food scale and I rarely eat out, but I’ve been doing this for so long that I’m pretty accurate in my guesstimations on the occasion when I don’t measure. It’s an ongoing self experiment that has taught me a shit-ton about my own metabolism.
Calories (sorry Razwell, I don’t know what else to call them) definitely MATTER!
I don’t intentionally restrict calories, but days when I notice that familiar stress response I’ll go check my Cron-O and sure enough it’s due to a basic lack of input simply because I get too busy. I’ve noticed that if I don’t get close to 3,000 calories the stress response sets in.
In the past, I have tried eating a very low fat diet. It works, but I cannot seem to sustain it in the longterm. I get intense cravings for fatty food.
I’ll admit I’ve never tried pushing even more carbs, mostly because I get sick of too much sweet stuff. It’s very hard to eat a ton of fruit or plain potatoes. I can pound honey, orange juice and Mexican Coke like a boss, but it never lasts. I always give in and eat a ton of cheese or gobs of butter on my potatoes/rice. Dates and figs become sickening after a while.
I don’t eat many vegetables and too much fruit fiber disturbs my gut. I don’t eat any wheat at all due to celiac.
Years ago, I tried the low carb high fat diet (it worked great until it didn’t), but that experiment had far more severe consequences as far as metabolism/libido/poor mood etc. Everything went to hell.
I have a history of morbid obesity for twenty years (initially triggered by dieting and pregnancy), from age 25 to 45. I’ve kept the bulk of my excess body fat off for several years now and have been slowly unwinding the myriad of reasons WHY I got fat….Chronic Malnutrition was a BIGGEE! Stress too. And massive wheat consumption.
I’ll be 52 soon (very short female) don’t exercise much beyond walking and just generally keeping busy and being happy.
I’ve fixed nearly all of the issues that restrictive dieting/low carbing caused, but I still have not been able to achieve my goal of 120 lbs, let alone maintain it. I would have to restrict calories to get there, something I’m unwilling to do.
I seem to be eternally perpetually 10 pounds overweight. I recently had my genes tested and apparently I possess every single gene polymorphism for obesity, increased waist circumference AND type ll diabetes! Fabulous.
I’m fairly certain that my current High Everything Diet isn’t going to get me where I’d like to be weight-wise because I’ve been doing it for years. All metabolic markers are VASTLY improved though, so I’m reluctant to change anything…I’m seriously considering the low fat approach again. Maybe.
Any tips?
I dunno Magic Maker. I think most people here would give a portion of their genitals to be highly functional, eating plenty of everything, way under their former highest weight, and only 10 pounds above what they consider to be perfect. I wouldn’t change a thing! Although, I don’t think eating lower in fat is metabolically dangerous.
Hey Magic Maker-
you say you followed some of Peat’s principles. Did you take thyroid or focus on other supplements, and if so, do you think it helped your weight loss and seeming reversal of diabetes?
Hi Anna,
Yes, I’ve pretty much followed Peat’s principles. I do eat some things that he has said he doesn’t eat (like berries and some fermented foods).
I’ve also had moments where I strayed (ate a LOT of nuts) and it never works out for me, which is a bummer because I ADORE pistachios and pecans, but they really do cause me problems in the long run. I never eat deep fried food unless I fry it myself in coconut oil.
I do have an ongoing thyroid issue that I haven’t been able to heal (yet). I finally had a thyroid ultrasound done almost two years ago and was told that my thyroid gland was shrunken and shotty in texture, indicating I have or or at least had Hashimoto’s. I haven’t had elevated antibodies in years, so I guess that part is in remission. I think giving up all wheat was key and supplementing nutrients that I clearly was not absorbing.
I can get away with taking no thyroid in the summer, but come October all my labs begin to get worse (cholesterol and blood sugar), so I do supplement with darn near everything Peat recommends: aspirin, b vitamins, progesterone and the fat soluble vitamins and thyroid.
A year ago I found a doctor in Cali who prescribed T3 only for me. My GP would not listen to me. I have labs that absolutely prove before and after numbers were directly related to taking thyroid hormone alone. No other changes were made in diet/supplements.
In other words, I can only get so far with diet and supplements. In order for me to not be hyperlipidemic and pre-diabetic especially over the WINTER, I must take some T3.
I’m now looking in to stem cell therapy to see if I can grow some new thyroid tissue.
But long story short, yes I would be a fat diabetic on Metformin and Lipitor (and probably anti-depressants too) if it weren’t for Peat’s work.
Instead, I’m plenty warm, I can digest all kinds of food (well, not wheat) I’m quite happy and have great cholesterol, A1c hs-CRP, etc. etc. albeit still plump even with T3.
Thanks for your reply, Magic Maker. Sounds like you’ve really figured out how to make things work for you.
Did you ever try metformin or any other diabetes med while Peating?
Hi Anna,
My endocrinologist wrote me a prescription for Metformin and ordered me to attend his diabetes class. I filled the prescription, but I never took the medication. I read that it could cause all kinds of side effects.
I went to see the endo again showing him my old lab work proving that when I was on Armour thyroid my blood sugar and cholesterol were fine. He finally reluctantly admitted that having some T3 that was the difference, so he wore a prescription for 5 mcg. of cytomel on top of my 50 mcg. of T4.
I knew that 5mcg. wouldn’t be enough as this was late October and I also knew that T4 meds are useless to me, they only make my thyroid labs look good. T4 has NO effect on my cholesterol or blood sugar, I know this from years of taking levothyroxine while morbidly obese and pre-diabetic.
So I that’s when I went looking for a doctor who would actually listen to me. My new doc took me off all T4 meds and has me on T3 only.
My Total Cholesterol went from 267 mg/dL to 185 mg/dL
HDL went from 62 to 59
Triglycerides went from 148 to 58
LDL went from 185.7 mg/dL to 112 mg/dL (calc)
HgbA1c went from 6.2% right back to 5.0%
These labs were taken mid-March after eating like a Champ all winter.
All these changes with NO change in diet, in fact I would say I Moved Less and Ate More this past winter…except it’s June now and the days are long so I’ve tapered down to no T3.
Peat eating and supps will be enough to sustain metabolism.
Sunlight makes me far more sensitive to T3, weird eh? Maybe I’ll have some more labs done again in late summer.
Thanks for providing those details, Magic Maker!
Very interesting that thyroid made such a difference. When I’ve tried it in the past (various types of NDT, then also a T4 and T3 combo), it just pushed my stress hormones- like constantly hot and sweaty from what I assume is high cortisol- and gaining weight, etc. Wondering if I increase my calories (which has always been a hard chore for me, despite hunger) if that will help me tolerate some T3.
Hi Anna…I’ve read that T3 can make some people more sensitive to their adrenaline. People who are hypothyroid/struggling with a low metabolism have a tendency to waste minerals like magnesium and sodium because they’re running on stress hormones.
Increasing your salt intake can help lower adrenaline and eating more in general could help you to better tolerate some T3.
I’ve also noticed that too much estrogen will cause an imbalance in minerals which always make me retain water. I’m homozygous A/A for an important COMT gene snp, which means I don’t clear estrogen well. I’m pretty sure this contributed to my hypothyroidism.
My opinion is that testing with T3 only is more helpful because it’s fast acting and has such a short half life. This is only my opinion, but anything with T4 seems to get in the way of finding a proper dosage.
Hi Magic Maker- With Hashimoto’s and thyroid issues you really have to educate yourself. I was on Armour thyroid for a long time and didn’t feel any difference. Then I read Stop The Thyroid Madness, and found out about RT3 (reverse T3). Apparently, no matter what dose of Armour I was taking, it wasn’t activated. And I didn’t know until I asked for a blood test to include the RT3.
Luckily my doctor is open-minded and prescribed T3 for me- and it’s cheap as dirt! But even that needed to be closely monitored- so now I’m increasing my dose, but spreading it out during the day.
Still no weight adjustment at all- but I’ve pretty much given that up – the thing I’m most concerned about is pain and foggy brain.
OH- I almost forgot to mention: I had stem cell (amniotic) injections in my knees – and I am a NEW PERSON! That stuff works! I don’t know anyone who has used it with the thyroid gland, but it definitely merits investigation. Unfortunately, it’s incredibly expensive- but it really changed my life- no pain in my knees, no knee braces and I can run around the tennis court like in my youth! Write to me if you want more info..
Hi Lianda,
I’ve read everything I could get my hands on regarding Hashimoto’s since 2011 (that’s when I was officially diagnosed). Because I’ve done so much healing since then and also due my seasonal fluctuating condition, I’ve been told by different doctors (seen after that initial diagnosis) that I have NO thyroid issues at all, lol. It all depends on the time of year and time of day when labs are drawn, which is why I had the ultrasound done.
Ultimately, my doctor says he’s less concerned with the numbers than with how I feel. I wear a fitness tracker 24/7 and note my pulse/temp throughout the day and occasionally check my blood pressure. How I WISH I would have found him 27 years ago!
STTM is indeed a fabulous resource and I definitely check my antibodies and reverse T3 twice a year, I haven’t had an issue with either for 7 years now.
I’m thrilled to hear of your success with stem cells in your knees!!! That’s very encouraging. There’s an MD here in Seattle that does stem cell therapy for growing new thyroid tissue, but yeah, HUGELY expensive and I’m not sure it even works…..meanwhile, I’m saving my pennies.
Dammit lol. I was thinking of a drive-by strategy where you do a deficit for a week followed by maintenance for two weeks or even three. Maybe avoid detection if it’s small and slow.
I know you wrote “LOL” – But on a serious note, “Maybe avoid detection if it’s small and slow.” – from all that I’ve read on this, isn’t that actually THE (only??) WAY to lose excess fat and keep it off, thereby re-setting the body’s set point? so, a daily small-enough-to-go-under-the-body’s-noticing deficit ?? would be the Answer??
Avoid detection, lol. You guys are funny.
Obesity researchers have tried a lot of weight loss speeds. Large deficits, small deficits. It makes no difference. I do think cycling calories and doing refeeds, cheat days, and leptin spikes (whatever you want to call them) as bodybuilders often do, probably has some validity. But it’s still a very tough strategy to execute consistently, and I’m not at all sure there really is any magic there or not.
10 years ago almost to the date, I did one of my dumbest diets ever–I went on Nutrisystem. I lost about 55 pounds over the next 18 months. Then for a brief time, I tried to do their maintenance program. But since then I’ve pretty much been eating to satisfaction. Of course I gained all the weight back and then some. For several years I attempted a WAPF-style diet. I ate pretty high fat and lowish carbs. A few months ago, I found 180D and I’ve reduced my fat and protein while still eating to satisfaction so obviously I’ve increased my carbs, though I don’t count anything. My temps have come up and I just hit 99 for the first time. Yay! However, in that past couple of weeks I’ve had a rather sharp decrease in appetite. I still eat 3 regular meals, but I get full quickly and feel stuffed for a long time. I’m noticing that I’m eating even less fat and protein. Is this supposed to happen? Will my metabolism tank if I keep just eating to satisfaction? What should I do?
That’s typical Jeanne. Our bodies can regulate our weight, and when metabolism is high and appetite starts to fall, that’s usually a sign of the weight set point lowering. In most cases, that’s a good thing. In others, there is sometimes a need to fight the lack of appetite and still pack in the extra calories to keep metabolism up. Keep experimenting, eating to the point of 100% satisfaction if not slightly beyond that point, and hopefully, over time, you’ll keep the high metabolism but actually get to have the profound experience of losing weight as effortlessly as you gained it.
@bg: the longer it goes on the harder the body fights, even with a small deficit, because it can detect your fat stores going down. That’s why I’m proposing crazy long maintenance phases.
@Matt: I know it’s a long shot ????
But I still think there can be a way. Every system has a weakness that can be exploited. Bariatric surgery is known to avoid detection, but they currently don’t understand why.
Another exploit is if you stay at a weight for a very long time, the body accepts it as your new setpoint. When I quit my 2 liter of Coke a day habit last year, I lost about 25 pounds. I still refeed with no banned foods, add libitum, about 4k calories a day. My body defends 275 now. During Christmas I was easily eating 6k a day, gained about 4-5 pounds, then went back to 275 after Christmas. New setpoint.
So, what if the deficit is only for a week, followed by 4 weeks of maintenance? None of the studies tried a refeed that long (it was usually 5:2 or Varady’s alternate day fast thing).
This involutary defensive system that protects fat tissue against removal is POWERFUL.i can attest to that. It starts immediately omce you get too skinny as determimed by what your body deems too skinny.Itxs very keen on Mattxs part to see this. I had friends who either got rail skinny or lretty fat aquiring auroimmune diseases. They did everything they always did but their bodies CHANGED.his ide tified involuntary system has powerful wishes and many, many tricks . It sucks. The industry denies this system. MyFitnessPal members do not even know of it.
Dr. Rosenbaum himself is on video stating that fat people really do,habe a different biology than normal humans. Dr. Rosenbaum also stated thwt unfortunately the body really does have a mind of its own. Guyenet, in 2010, recognized this. This system, this involuntary defense system exists and has been identified over the years starting with the rodent work of Dr. Douglas Coleman of the Jaclson Laboratory in the 1960’s and 1970’s I believe. Dr. Coleman was Dr. Friedman’s respected colleague. Coleman was a piomeer instrumental is BIG discoveries. Most scientists were ignorant of this powerful defensive system (many still are -usually medical doctors) that even Matt knows about.and writes about.
It’s very strong and can exert strong control. Doug Brignole commented on a podcast he has fat clients who do everything right but just cannot lose the fat. Doug said they are even more disciplined than he is. Gemetics, involuntary defense system, immume system, gut flora, health, drugs are all at play here.
I could WISH to be 700 pounds. I could follow the dopey erro eous ignorant formulas that McDonald and Guyenet woukd dole out as advice. It would NEVER HAPOEN. I am a muscukar ectomorph, not,quite meso, but decently muscled for ecro. If I stuffed mysekf silly I MAY get fat, but nowhere near severe onesity. (Some people can grrrrosssly obereat and gain almost nothing like that skinny Asian kid in some study that was featured on YouTube or T,v. A decafe baxk. Calories are ONLY INDIRECTLY related to CARBON ATOMS.
We cannot WILL ourselves to be 700 pounds. CICO is a perversion of the truth. Itxs matter, carbon atoms NOT calories, NOT inverse fermions. And it is a CLOGGING UP and HOARDING PARTITIONING of these ingested atoms that is a problem. Why does the fuel obese people eat add to their fat tissue amd nkt so much muscle? Partitioning is ONE of themCENTRAL factors. Guye et noted this in 2010 correctly.
These people have biocjemical and genetic defect situations going on that we do not u derstand. How does fat hoard and beco e so clogged up and dysregulated. The SAD thing is that before the Taubesf Guyenet disoute, Guyenet ONCE ASKED WHY IS THERE THIS ” CLOGGING UP” of the system. That was an intelligent commemt. He has since totally regressed to the standard lorw. Wasting away a career over some spat,
The body defends against weight loss far better than against weight gain. Guyenet didn’t abandon the set point theory btw, that’s still what he’s working on.
Yes, to survive. I hooe my comment relayed that and was not confusing. It really defends fat tissue from removal. Voraciously, hellaciously as Dr. Friedman put it.
I just wish Guyenet would get off his Food Reward b.s. jJust another play on the overeating behavioral throry. He is regressing with that. Guyenet is not in Rosenbaum’s or Friedmanxs class. They are cutting edge and understand that mere overeating is not even remotely sufficient (the key word) to induce obesity. Some foodzpoverty level is necessary-some food even is very littlez but not sufficient. This is what ^Guyenet cannot grasp or denies. Taubes owns him on the fact that we see severe obedity in destitute poverty. Tge ultimate test
Like I said, obesity in poverty is extremely recent, made possible by food corporations who sell cheap processed foods that are high in calories/carbon.
Did you see any obese people at Auschwitz? This idea is self evidently false.
He’s actually been tweeting a lot of pro carb and pro keto stuff lately. Maybe he is an idiot lol
Hi, Razwell:
I was just reading the following article and it made me think of you.
https://idmprogram.com/how-to-control-the-body-weight-thermometer
“?Calories? is not a physiologic notion, as we’ve previously discussed. Our body has no ?calorie? receptors and does not know how many calories we eat or don’t eat. Over the past several centuries, we’ve decoded many of the human metabolic pathways. Do you see ?calories? mentioned ANYWHERE in this complex diagram?”
I wonder if I should introduce him to the idea of “Inverse Fermions”? haha I enjoyed your Magic-In/Magic-Out (MIMO) comment, too. :-)
Best,
Carl
“our body doesn’t have any ‘calorie’ receptors and doesn’t know how many calories we eat or don’t eat”
No, it doesn’t have any “calorie receptors”, but it has sugar receptors and fat receptors, and the fattier and sweeter the better. Fattier and sweeter means more calories, or carbon if you prefer.
This calorie wokeness is a tiresome sideshow in semantics.
If the body “doesn’t know how many calories you ate or didn’t eat”, then how do hunger and satiety even exist, and how does it defend a setpoint? This is trash.
The body’s most important “detectors” is the fat tissue detector, leptin. If body fat decreases (from burning more fat than it stores), then it increases appetite and reduces metabolic rate to compensate. That’s why someone can’t just eat less or exercise more as a permanent solution to obesity. It doesn’t work because of how the body responds to an energy shortage. Plain and simple.
@matt: very true, but after bariatric surgery patients lose a lot of fat but the brain can’t read it somehow. A week point is being exploited.
And speaking of leptin I was just reading how fructose (specifically HFCS) lowers circulating leptin and attenuates post prandial suppression of ghrelin! Son of a…
@carl: I was just ranting at Fung and the calorie stuff, sorry if it seemed like it was directed at you personally
I’m not sure about bariatric patients’ brains not being able to read the fat loss. I am inclined to believe that their metabolic rates are greatly reduced, and the only difference between the outcome of those who undergo surgery vs. those who force weight off with intentional deficit is that the weight regain is stalled due to the physiological inability to consume excess food. The official stats are that 50% of lost weight is regained by the 5-year mark, and those stats are probably overly rosy than reality.
All things considered, I’m still not certain how I feel about it.
And you gave the example of postpartum women and adolescents dropping a bunch of fat and the body being ok with it. Why is that? Or even our own Zach who lost 40 pounds, why didn’t his body detect the loss and fight back? And what might that look like on the biochemical level? If we can answer that than we can emulate it.
It’s clear that weight can be lost without the body fighting it. There are enough examples to have hope and keep looking. I think the key is that it has to be unforced and spontaneous. I believe Zach’s approach (which is not unlike what is advocated by Durianrider), triggers weight loss via very high metabolism. It’s well known that weight is lost spontaneously in a hypermetabolic state. But go on YouTube and you are likely to see thousands of people complaining about how that approach just caused them to gain weight and never lose it, so I don’t think everyone is going to have success with it. Certainly not as quickly as Zach did. But maybe there are keys to making it work that are more precise than the standard advice to “carb the fuck up” with the assumption that everything else will just magically fall into place if you do.
One of my relatives has done bariatric surgery, and needless to say I’ve grilled him on it for hours lol.
He lost almost 150 pounds (he was bigger than me), and has kept it off for three years so far. Hopefully he’s lucky enough to be in the 50% that makes it.
He used to eat next to nothing but now he eats about 2200, but he’s pretty tall so you’re probably right about the reduced metabolic rate. He doesn’t have excessive hunger or cravings at all, so that part of the defense system is still down. Decoding this will be one of the biggest breaks in the fight against obesity.
To be clear, that stat is 50% of weight lost, not 50% of people maintain their weight loss. So, if you lose 100 pounds, you can expect to have regained 50 by the 5-year mark.
I’m on your side, amigo. I’m not defending what Fung wrote, I was merely reminded of Razwell and pinged him.
The stomach has nutrient receptors and stretch receptors, so that is likely part of the feedback loop for satiety hormones. This is why the Vegans (Joel Fuhrman, Doug Lisle, Jeff Novick) go apeshit over nutrient-dense and calorie-/carbon-dilute foods. But of course, while that “works” to some degree, it seems to come at a price for some. The Vagus Nerve could be a key player, too, among a constellation of other things.
Obviously, if anyone knew the answer, they’d be in Stockholm receiving the Nobel Prize!
In the meantime, I’ve decided to have pizza for dinner. The pressure-cooked potatoes and meat-free chili I made last night seems to have wrecked my digestive tract. In fact, it’s still suffering. But, three slices of pizza with a few sips of root beer usually feels pretty good.
It is not semantics. calories are FICTITIOUS AS ALL UNITS are. They are ALL ARBITRAY units to measure some abstract fiction itself, energy. Energy is NOT invisible nebulous like radio waves. It is an entirely fictitious concept we invented. It is not a piece of nature. Radiation ks stufd. Such is nkt the case for energy.
It ks nkt wokeness. It is physjcs education. Too Ph.D u derstand what I am saying. Energy js an ACCOUNTI G TRICK. CALORIES HABE NO EXISTENDE WHATSIEVER. WHAT WE HAVE IS CARBON IN FOOD hard to excrete. Calories or any other u jts are I DIRECTKY related to carbon atoms. If a food ks said to be high in calories or joules,it has a great carbon ATOM CINTENT.
energy ks not not notso e extra thing kr stjff i q
equatiins. I KNKW what I am talking about. The Internet cannot graso what energy and its units RAE. FICTION.
Calories are not just untouchab,e THEY HAVE NO EXISTENCE PERIOD. This is Not semantics. Energy ks NOT ANYTHING in Nagure. It js a NUMBER WE ASSIGN TO STUFF like radiation, gamma ray bursts….
It deals with carbon ATOMS, STUFF, Molecules, matter FOOD ks STUFF. There are NO calories or joules, or BTU or inverse fermiins hiding in food. Calories are 100% fictitious . You might as wells say MAGIC made you fat IF one says “energy”made them far. You might as well say MAGIC made an ibject move if ine (INCORRECTLY) states “energy ” made it move. This is what FEYNMAN said , not even me.
I am 100 % sure Feynman u derstood the topic of energy better than CarbSane, Guyemet or Lyke. They have no clue.
Hi Razwell,
Just wanted to log in and say I appreciate your ramblings on here! I’d actually read your book if you want to author one. I think what you have to say could be digested better in pictorial format and presented in a really clever way so as to appeal to the masses. I know I’m late to the party but I’ve spent quite a few hours over the past couple of days devouring this message thread. Fantastic contributions by all.
I’m a member of the been there done it all in terms of experimenting with my body to attempt to make it comply with modern acceptability standards (BFL, LC, VLC, ZC, JC, WW, SW, CD, ZC again, MMS, EFT, Probiotics, Starvation in various forms, Excess exercise in many forms, combinations of all, hypnosis, mediation,Paul Mckenna I can make you slim… the list goes on)All with some limited or great success but you know how the story goes…. Back to the drawing board right now and about to go face first into Ray Peat for what it’s worth lol. I have come across this platform (and read Eat for Heat in between some Excess Exercise/VLC combo but kinda dismissed it as too many carbs). Anyway I now see we’re all kindred spirits and I salute you. Great site Matt! I look forward to your next post whenever it may come.
Hi Angie,
You might want to listen to Dr. Jason Fung. Yes, he does the IF and OMAD on occasion, but his medical practice focuses on the obese who are also Type 2 Diabetic.
He gets them on a low carb diet and then instructs them to keep their eating within one to two meals a day to cut down the times the body activates the fattening hormone: Insulin.
I am eating ZC/meat only, no plants…as low carb as one can get. It alone has helped and I continue to lose weight, but have found that the weight loss is too slow for me. 2-3 pounds a month has slowed to nearly zero the last couple of months.
I’ve decided to experiment with finding my true hunger and eating as much as I need at the one or two meals a day as determined by my body.
It’s only been 5 days, but seems to have helped get the stall ended.
I had been snacking (coffee with cream) between meals instead of just eating when hungry….so had added an extra one or two ‘insulin’ activation episodes.
Well, give it some reading/listening and see if either or one or the other is of interest. Love Dr. Peat, but that’s too much plain sugar for everyone….I’ve been there, done that. Just got fatter and fatter, even though I was no longer dieting and listening to my hunger signals.
Eating plant carbs, those signals are too often.
I finished Fung’s article and wow guys, I think we’ve found the new Steven Hawking (R.I.P.)
In an article bashing CICO and the “absurdity” of overeating causing weight gain, he mentions Rudy Leibel’s 1995 paper on how volunteers gained weight and showed increased BMR, then lost weight and showed lowered BMR. Great paper, I’ve read it before.
Can you guys guess how Liebel made the volunteers gain weight?! I’ll give you a moment to guess. No peeking!
Ready?!
He *overfed* them a surplus (8000 calories a day!) until they gained 10% of their body weight.
????????????????????????????????????
Bravo Dr. Fung, truly a mental Colossus.
For homework, try to guess how they lost weight (spoiler alert: they ate a deficit)
hahaha – This is one example of why I like you, Skeptic!
????
Can water weaken the immune system / damage the bowel in any way? I have a cancer in the colon and I am suffering from caqueixa, I can not eat anything without having a virulent reaction. After reading the book I decided to stay a day and a half without water and then try to eat rice, to my surprise the reaction was too little, I did not feel the sparks I always feel when I eat solid foods. I see that much research seems to indicate that a damaged intestinal lining is caused by bacteria that take advantage of a weak immune system, if the fluids are bad for the immune system, I may be causing my death. Since I am practically in a liquid fast. I feel that I will have to choose between eating or drinking because the diet dictated by the doctors is not being enough to brake the weight loss and the dementia that is beginning to appear. Where I live everyone who has intermediate stage colon cancer die in less than 10 years following the standard treatment, to the famous ones with more money. My biggest fear is crap and the high liquid diet they impose does not seem to be helping. Sorry for the English.
It can weaken the immune system in that it lowers metabolic rate, and metabolic rate is a very important player in our immune function. It controls our body temperature for starters, which, when lowered, suppressed our immune system greatly (it’s the opposite of an invader-fighting fever).
You are probably better off eating a warming diet with lower water content, very high calorie density, and higher salt levels. This will also hep your cachexia, hopefully.
Lastly, I’d suggest keeping your intake of polyunsaturated fats extremely low. https://patch.com/california/davis/uc-davis-researchers-potential-block-cancer-growth-may-have-been-found
That’s best done by avoiding pork, chicken (especially the skin), nuts and seeds, and any fats that are liquid at room temperature, except for small amounts of olive oil and macadamia oil.
I think the most important thing in your situation is to get enough calories and nutrition in the most digestible form possible. Super well cooked starches like white rice and maybe potatoes, very tender beef, sugars from fruit juices, honey, maple syrup, coconut water. Maybe dairy or well cooked eggs. Chew everything till it’s mush liquid and avoiding fibers. Well salted helps with digestion .If most things digest before they get to the colon, it should be ok.
Have you tried a meat and water only diet? Fat meat is the easiest food to digest and has all the amino acids you need to thrive. Check out the free pdf book Strong Medicine by Blake Donaldson, M.D. or the free pdf book Eat Fat and Grow Slim by Richard Mackarness.
The studies Mackarness quotes prove that there are two types of bodies, The Fatten-Easily’s and The Constant-Weight’s. I am of the heredity of the Fatten-Easily…carbs are always stored as fat. The Constants can stuff themselves silly with any amount of food including carbs and will simply increase their metabolism to burn it off.
And to add to skeptics who are concerned that the carnivores are going hungry/fasting, eating less ‘calories’ on purpose. Being fed with correct food (amino acids) is filling and can keep a person without hunger and needing food for hours.
That is why hunting daily was not necessary, nor always having a successful hunt was not an issue and we are here now to prove it.
We eat the grazers who predigest and supply all that we need.
I began to eat this way on 5-18 and have watched myself melt away fat…there has been very little water/peeing going on unless I drink a lot of water. Evaporation/not sweating to be sure. Pants that were tight last week are loose this week and down 10 pounds.
Eating this way is doable for life, now that I realize I am a Fatten Easily on carbs.
I don’t miss them.
Atkins’ was a low fat, low carb, protein. Yuck! It required too much effort.
And I like so much less time in the kitchen.
Ann, I know that can feel awesome at first, and yes it’s indeed a seemingly effortless way to lose fat. But please be careful with it. In my experience, a meat and water only diet is a one-way ticket to Adrenal Snap City.
At the very least, be open to quickly making a shift to a low-fat, high-carb diet if you run into any problems (sleep problems, signs of low metabolism, feeling strung out, dark circles under eyes, etc.). Or consider having a carb day once per week to keep your adrenal glands from having to raise cortisol to break down protein to form liver glycogen.
Matt, I don’t think you get it, the body does not need carbs!
Annab, did I read that right that you have only been doing that diet for 10 days? If so, pleeeaase try not to be so brain washed so easily. The things you wrote are so laughably incorrect that your post almost seems like a troll. Yet I fear that you are being sincere since I have see hundreds of other go that route and I personally thought carnivory was the salvation to my woes. Unfortunately it’s about as wrong as you can get for a human diet.
If you start getting the tell tale adrenal/hypo symptoms or any gout like symptoms or if you feel like your about to have a heart attack, please bring in some carbs.
Thanks, Carl. :)
You are very smart. I am super happy you understand this better than 99.999999999999999% of people out there. It is a subtle subject and ONLY SMART people get what I am saying.
“Energy” is just a useful abstract mathematical fiction, an accounting trick that human beings perform and compute. The various units we humans made up are just as fictitious as energy -we could use “calories”, (as well as a n y other hokey unit)inverse fermions, joules, etc. as a unit for any object-photons, stars, rocks, nucleons, comets, asteroids, All these units are embarassing, unnecesssry and totally hoket inventions. Feynman me tioned all of that. Feynman wanted one in ention, one unit for calculating energy-nothing more than some number people compute.
Food is matter, atoms, We could delve down further and say it is made up of subatomic particles. These particles are sooooo small. But they are actual stuff, entities. Energy is just a calculation , a fiction we find very useful. Even photons are stuff, not energy. Any guru that e er says “pure energy” that is a giveaway for a huckster.Lyle is the type who thinks “pure energyc exists…. Does “pure spindly” exist? LOL! That is my question for CarbSane. LOL! I hope I get their hackles up.
Lyle McDonald, the dope, honestly believes that there is something about arbitrary calories that is “instrinsic” to food, or some stuff IN food called “calories”. McDonald is a fool.
Thanks, again, buddy,
Razz
Razwell!
Hey, buddy! My understanding probably has less to do with me being smart and more to do with having a smart teacher explain the concepts in a way that makes sense! :-)
Also, I just saw your other note about your quietly going back into retirement. :-( Hopefully it’s only SEMI-retirement? Perhaps you’ll do another Michael Jordan and make another surprise return?
I think I can relate to the desire to disconnect, though. Although I quit my job back in January, I’ve spent much of my free time sitting in front of my computer. I realize that’s a terrible thing for my mental and physical health.
Anyway, I hope you’ll make a guest appearance here again, even if it’s only brief and infrequent. But, whether you do or not, I wish you the best of life and much health and happiness!
Take care, my friend! :-)
Carl
Rare people like Dr. Jeffrey Friedman are obese people’s only hope. Friedman’s genetic work explains why we see severe onesity in destitute poberty obesity has an enormously huhe biological uderpinning.
When Taunes says “energy balance” is a hokey fitness industry term that is meaningless and not any explanation, he has the full support of Steven Weinnerg,
David Gross and the late Richard Feynman. All of these legendary physicists have noted that “thermodynamics is never the explanation for ANY phenomenon. And we can never use “energy” as an explanation or description of any given phenomenon.
The reason Taubes gets backlash is because alot of asses are chapped, people have assumed nonsense and believed nonsense for years, this assumptive nonsense is tradition. LOL!. These same asses are physics illiterate, many are medical doctors.
If researchers had Guyemet’s outdated dinosaur vkew of obesity, we woukd get nowhere.His 2010 intervjew was nothing breakthrough, but at least he got it more then. OzSheaxs immume work is cutti g edge. HE shoukd get the attentiin, not the dee
rivative trivial work (at best) and regressive work of Guyenet. Guyenet might make a fine neurobiologist studying other areas of tje brain, but as far as an obesity scientist, he has faiked.No progress i. a
decade Whatxs worse, it is WILLFUL failure. Due to his bout with Taubes altered eveeything he says now. He mut be contrarian EVEN if that means regressing. Guyenet must be the opposite of Taubes, no matter how wrong and oitdated and debunked his current spewings are….
I am at odds with CarbSane (her doing not mine) (she hates me because of my stance-that inesity is xomolex and a dysregulation of some sort) but habe TRIED to extend olive branches and get educationak discussiins going. She refuses.Guyenet was not slighted by Taubes to the extent the gurus slighted me.And I still put that aside and try to educate aboit energy. Matt is probably witness to the many energy e-mails I send Guyenet.LOL At first I was polite. Now it is a comedy act.
I have some background in physics, but I am not a biologist or onesity researcher. I had better ideas than Guyemet. I have looooong thought onesity had a lot to do with the immune system. Dr. OxShea shkwed it DOES, strongly! I have NEVER heard Guyemet mention specific gene defects , nor the immu e system. Food Reward is for clowns. Yes, food, “reproductive activities, sleep are allllll very rewarding. That is not in dispute. No problem. BUT the problem is that is NOT the cause of obesity, just another play and variation of an overeating theme. That behavioral overeating view is outdated. Rosenbaum wants other scientists to knkw that what we Though amd ASSUMED about obesity years ago is flat out wrong.
Lyle , CarbSane, Colpo, Krieger and Guyenet hate Taubes for asking great questions, questions theynhabe FAIL ED TO ASK! HARD HITING QUESTIONS. Feynman would habe been proud of Taubes’work -even if insulin is incomplete or wrong, %aubes asked the right questiins, exposed the behavioral model.
Just as thin genes (Friedman notes there are genes that keep us thin-he is a top gemeticist) protect thin people from getting bery fat, similarly an onese person cannot just will themselves thin by eating less. That assumes theynare eating mkre in the first plave and many are not eating any mkre than a normal person. Even tje ones who are, have a DISPROPORTIINATE fattening, a highly exaggerated response to iberfeeding. Plus their fuel is lartioned straight to fat cells, rather than muscle , as many lean people.
They do not explain onesity and hkw fat cells are dysregulated, nor how they hakrd, their chemical behavior,
I habe long proposed immume system. I propose UV radiation has an effect on fat cells.i have seen this effect for 20 years, si have my friends. I was soooo lazy this one weei in 2011 and my friend thought I “lost a bit of weight”. It was noticeable. All i did was lay on Miami Beach the last week for 5 hours at a clip.(being sure to eatzfood was no different. Exercise was mkdest, I tried to keep it much less even, using shirtcuts walking. I was semi-lazy.
I see it every time I lay in Miami sunlight for hiurs (I still eat on the beach) I lose water and I lose fat in areas exposed to the sunlight. I am not tat but areas exposed make me go from a good body fat percentage and toned to pretty ripped.Another interesting thing-I habe slept on the floor since the summer of 1997, I like hard surfaces. My side hip bone are has no mkre fat. I must habe damaged the fat pads. I can pinch nothing at all. I feel tje bone. It is bizarre.My hips became sore lying on hard surfaces so long. I might have slept in a bed like 5 times over the last 20 years. I have too soft of a bed, I need a nice sleeping bag and the floor, lol, i can say for sure my hip area is the leanest it has ever nas been. Suler lean. More so than surrounding areas even.
I habe one more possibility as a cause for obesity mitochondrial defects/dysfunctiin. Onesity research needs creative minds, not rehashing kld dogmas like McDonald, Guyemet and CarbSane do. 10 years, still nowhere. Meanwhile Dr Friedman has identified many mkre single gene defects since 2004 even
Genetics is only a small piece of the puzzle. Like one obesity researcher put it, up to about the 1950s, there was no obesity problem, then in about 50 years we have an obesity epidemic that will soon include 2/3 of all humans. To say that a genotype that predisposes you to obesity came to dominate 70% of world population in 50 years is absurd and impossible.
I know there are mice and humans with genetic defects or hypothalamus tumors that can get fat on nothing, but to say that ALL obese people are like this is not very likely.
Either way genetics research is a dead because all they can tell you is you have xyz genes, being fat is your destiny. Accept your fat. Pass.
Genetics is HUGE, it is THE top problem amd the biggest influence. Obesity is more genetic than Coronary Heart Disease, cancers, alcoholism, and many mkre diseases. Obesity is SURREMEKY genetic. Obese people have a differ3nt biology. If they habe the genes for severe inesity or gene defect That is their fate. This is u fortunate. As me riomed thkse with certain ge e defects beco e inese totqlly Irrespetive of the amount they eat. Irrespectuve. Friedman notes this.
(And Taubes notes how we observe severe obesity in destitute poverty areas.
Onesity ks more heritary than all other medical conditions with tje exception of height. It may be equal to height , butnat wkrst ks a smidgen u der. This is bery well established. Not at all controversial. Obesity ks MASSIVELY GENETIC for sure. We knlw,that much. Guys like Guyemet do nktzthe lower level scientists. Friedman shkws how genetic obesity is in lectures.
Obesity is a problem but it is NKT an epifdemic. The data is oresented wrong and. They use the farcical Bmi. Friedman goes into detail about this.
Another thing is that Guye t has a video called saying onesity is a new problem That ma is nkt co letent. OBESITY IS FAR OLDER THAN THE PYRAMIDS dating back to 23,000B.C. where we knkw it existed that far back. Tnerei s q ton of misinformation oit there. Guyenet is foolish. Obesity is not even remotely new. We are 7 more pounds today than in 1990, Guyemet is not even remotely in Friedmanxs or OxSheaxs league as an onesity researcher. He is a semi disgrace. So misinformed.
“that is your fate”
I can’t accept that.
P.s. who are Friedman and O’Shea that you keep mentioning. I want to look up their work.
Hello Skeptic,
To answer your questions : Dr. Jeffrey M. Friedman -he is a world class obesity scientist and top geneticist from Rockefeller University. There are a lot of YouTube vids of his. He also has an article called “I Beg To Differ”. If you Google search “Midern Science Versus The Stigma Of Obesity” there you will find another Friedman penned paper with info far above McDonald et al’s.
He is the guy who stressed that genes can change in only 25 years. Dr. Friedman was one of the main guys on the team that led to the discovery of leptin. Dr. Douglas Coleman (and Dr. Hirsch) was a mentor of sorts to him and set the stage withthe earliest work.
Dr. Donal O’Shea is from Ireland and discovered that the immune system is at least 40 % involved in the involuntary fat tissue regulation/defensive system. He is cutting edge and very critical of eat , less, move more-Friedman is as well, calling it a ” 2,000 year old silly outdated ineffective nostrum and we can do better than that with modern scientific techniques and investigation.”
I know. For those affected, it sucks. It really, really, really sucks. Genetics are extremely impirtant. I am an ectomorph. After 20 years of lifting, I still cannot aquire prime Mike Tyson’s thick arm muscle. I have a Jordan style arm. Genetics keeps me from ever having the bicep peak of Tyson. I have to accept this -unless perhaps steroid drugs would enable me to achieve it. But I will not ever use steroids.
I know several obese people who “do everything according to common lore” yet remain very fat. Hopefully, there will be answers and ways to fight this genetic fate with Friedman’s quality genetic work. Maybe gene therapy.
100 trillion nuclear devices going off every second for 100 billion years is the “energy” equivalent analogy to the strongest Gamma Ray Bursts. That is the approximate calculation according to scientist Michelle Thaller. Beyond scary. These are ultr intense ultrabright gamma rays visible with the naked eye from 7 billion miles away. They are more powerful than Supernovas, and unlike Supernovas,which explode in all directions, Gamma Ray Bursts are very concentrated radiation shooting their rays in a concentrated manner, like a straight beam. When we measure their energy, it is obviously a huge number. They are the most powerful phenomenon we know of in the universe.
@Carl
Hi Carl, I better quietly go back into retirement. :) Stay safe and take care, buddy! :)
The genes CN CHANGE in 25 years a single generation. Friedan delved into this. We have the evidence.This is little known information but the entire Blogpshere is wrong – those who claim genes can;t change in a generation ‘THEY ABSOLUTELY CAN.
Obesity ‘s prevalence is exaggerated today by special intests who benefit- peopel just want to find it more and are more sensitive to it
. Very fat people existed even whe I was a kid, ( and long b efore that- obesity is incrwasing EVEN ON REMOTE ISLANDS and children
I saw quite a fewobese peopel as a super young 7 year odl kid in the latter 1980’s.
The book Eat Fat and Grow Slim by Richard Mackarness does have the research studies that show the biological reason why fat people are fat and thin/constant weight people cannot get fat/stay fat. 64 pages to print or 32 if you print both sides.
He shows the studies that proves the calorie fallacy.
The simplicity doesn’t require a novel length book to get the information across to a layperson or a person of advanced studies or intelligence, etc.
This information has been known for well over a hundred years. Even before a Dr. Harvey gave the diet to William Banting.
I only regret I didn’t remain calm and read it a second time more thoroughly in 2003 when I downloaded and printed it from the Our Civilization pages. There it is broken up into sections. Not as good as start to finish. But 15 years of internet upgrades makes a difference.
http://www.ultimatehealthprotocol.com/support-files/eat_fat.pdf
hi AnnB – so, he is recommending what sounds like the Keto diet? (meats, fats, no carbs, no starches) – correct?
Not a Keto diet. Not a low carb diet. Just meat and water – no plants. I wasn’t 100% no plants in the early weeks as I didn’t find Zero Carb Health until the second week and had used onion on burgers and some celery with gobs of cream cheese with my meat. I am still drinking coffee and heavy whipping cream (with carageenan) until that cream is gone, then to half and half and wean off coffee again…although I drink coffee to fit in 3 Tablespoons gelatin (extra protein) until I don’t want it either. But hot gelatin and cream tastes good for a before bed drink.
Today is 29 days, no issues – metabolism is still high, no reflux. My gut and butt are already noticeably smaller and I’m smaller all over. No bloating, no gas, better sleep, better skin, better mood, more confident overall, shape is changing (even with 75-80 pounds yet to lose), even less need for D3. I can feel new muscle growth (apparently had some wasting on SAD) and strength and endurance.
I WANT to move more…but won’t be adding formal exercise. I have enough house and yard work to keep me ‘exercised’ when I feel like it…or it’s imperative.
I don’t count calories, no do I count the natural carbs in dairy. Calories are fiction (thanks Razwell) and I just focus on nutrients that serve me well.
If this is coming off as zealotry, just pass by/ignore and wish me well. All the best.
Hi AnnB, You don’t come off as a zealot. I’ve read about the Carnivores, there are many who are having good success. Although I’m certain that I couldn’t stick with it, I am completely fascinated by it.
Once upon a time, I took a moment to enter what gorgeous Charlene Anderson eats in a day into Cron-O-Meter. It came out to something like 1700 calories. I know, I know….you folks don’t believe in calories, but how else can you quantify? There were also gaping holes in what I thought were important nutrients like potassium, calcium, vitamin K etc.
My conclusion was that looked like starvation to me, this is only my opinion at the moment and so I reserve the right to change my thoughts on this in the future.
I know there are lots of people who have success with this way of eating, is it possible that we’re completely WRONG about what nutrients human beings need on a daily basis?
I wonder if I could pull it off if I included eggs and cheese in addition to meat? But I would miss raspberries and blueberries and dark chocolate and…
Please do stick around and share your progress, I’m totally and completely captivated by the Meat Eaters.
Hi Magic Maker,
When you remove the mythical equation of calories from the diet of Charlene Andersen and all others who live/thrive eating no plants, and just follow the nutrient quotient, it becomes understandable that she requires fewer grams of fat and protein and the trace carbohydrates in meat to keep her body in its present adult state.
If she were physically injured, her requirement for quantity of nutrients would increase for repair and then drop back to her maintenance requirement once healed.
When a person comes to this first human diet with tens or even hundreds of pounds of fat stored, the body requires much more protein and fat to release that stored fat/excess skin and supporting tissues from the body and/or to make repairs to bring the body back to its normal and preferred state/size/shape.
Once normalized, the need for fats and proteins is considerably less, but is on par with the constant or ever changing physical and mental demands place on the body dictated by hunger and thirst and satiated/refilled with fat and animal protein.
I found it interesting that Charlene, in light of the recent research that I was turned onto about Vitamin A, has all her symptoms return from eating liver and instead has to stick to beef. I truly wonder if the magical property of the diet is the restriction of Vitamin A.
You just found Zero Carb Health? You missed out on the 30-day zero carb diet I did back in 2008. All the ZIOH cult came out of the woodwork to cheer me on! Interestingly, I gravitated to a meat and water only diet by the end. I thought it sucked though. I felt like I was dying by the end of a month. You can read all about it by searching for “FUMP 180degreehealth.”
Hey Matt,
Thanks for sharing your experience on Zero Carb, I’ll definitely go search FUMP and catch up….I may have read it years ago, but it doesn’t ring a bell. I only began reading your stuff in 2013, I think.
Regarding the Vitamin A info, I haven’t read it yet, but I had my genes tested last year and loaded it into SelfDecode. A health report was generated in which I got graded on various lifestyle and nutritional factors. I have NO idea how accurate this stuff is, but found it interesting that I received an “F” in the vitamin A department. Apparently, for some reason I happen to need HUGE amounts of vitamin A. I don’t convert beta carotene at all, I simply turn orange if I eat it. Eating a bit of liver makes me feel awesome and if I don’t take supplemental retinyl palmitate I get acne.
I’d like very much to go back and read that research one of your commenters posted…must go sift through and find the link.
Yeah Magic Maker, I’d love for you and Grant to get together and compare vitamin A experiences and figure out why the hell he does so well without vitamin A and why it seems to help you.
Hi AnnB,
Thanks for your reply. I came to the conclusion many years ago that part of my insidious weight gain was due to profound malnutrition, despite being morbidly obese I was literally starving. I blame wheat mostly, but in my experiments over the years I’ve found that all grain has the same effect on me.
While I do eat homemade nachos once in a while (chips made with organic corn cooked in coconut oil), I can tell that the chips really aren’t ideal food, they simply aren’t that nourishing…..the heaps of meat, cheese and sour cream are definitely where it’s at!
So, I’ve been told (on more than one occasion) that my obsession with trying to get all my nutrients covered is THE reason why I’m still plumper than I’d like to be. Yes, track everything on Cron-OCD, but not because I’m trying to restrict “calories” or macros or anything (I FAIL every single time I try restrict, it seems as though my Restrictor is now broken). At any rate, I do it because I’m trying to quantify what actually goes in to my mouth and simultaneously learn how that affects my mood, fatness, sleep, body temp, energy level, cognitive function, etc.
I think that if I ate only a pound and a half of fatty ribeye steak per day and spring water that I would definitely lose body fat….at least I’m pretty sure I would.
However in addition to the fat loss, I think my energy would tank initially, but then I’d become an insomniac and then I’d morph into a high strung, bitchy, impatient, hyper-vigilant, aggressively intolerant wench. My brain clarity would be amazing, going 100 mph, but I would be a mean person and feel stressed out all the time. I would not be able to relax or sit still….at least that’s what happened to me back in 2011-2013.
It wasn’t pretty, but I was two pants sizes smaller than I am now.
How on earth can I avoid all those negatives? I want to know WHY some women like Amber O’Hearn, Charlene Anderson, Kelly Hogan and all the rest can be SO CHILL???
What did I do wrong?
Hi Matt,
I used your link and simply changed the day in the URL to find each one in succession. I am and will read through a few times before I respond as I continue my experiment. Thank you for your experimentation, notes and research.
Yes, truly before I can in all honesty fully determine that this will be my last diet for correcting health issues and perhaps some aging (slow, maybe reverse) it requires more time than a month of VLC and not yet true meat- water only, to be spouting off/promoting/encouraging anyone here or close to me to follow.
A trial probably won’t be damaging, but it could be to some if one is low in particular vitamins or minerals already. I’d already corrected a D3 deficiency, so I haven’t had the struggles some new ZC members have had/continue to have for some time.
I am transparent (even on the ZIOH public group) about my health issues prior to joining as silence on what would be embarrassing topics is of no use to helping others recover…especially if one can do so without backlash from an ignorant medical community.
I still enjoy coffee with heavy whipping cream using the Keurig machine our son gave to us when he and his wife upgraded to more bells and whistles. I don’t get it…they all do the same thing. I bought two metal reusable K-cups for beans we grind or pre-ground. Husband recently bought the tiny papers to make it even less messy.
The cream contains carrageenan….is there heavy cream that doesn’t contain a gum/stabilizer? Have yet to find one.
OK, we all lie to ourselves. My first decision to do this ‘diet’ was to reverse the recent bout of high blood pressure, foamy urine and rapid heartbeat…KIDNEYS? Second was if this diet does that (it did) then perhaps it could also be a diet for my husband who has type II Diabetes and takes Metformin and Glyburide which require physician prescription and oversight and MONEY, MONEY, MONEY.
He’s already had a heart attack at age 60 requiring a 3-4 bypass operation. He’s 65.5 now. I’m hoping he can avoid another.
He has had back surgeries (I can’t even remember how many) to the point of fusion and steel rods and screws. Another surgery is looming if he doesn’t lose excess trunk weight, reduce the A1C, etc. which is compressing nerves to the point he’s already lost a lot of strength in his legs. Walks with a cane at times. Plus aches and pains in the groin.
Several years ago I got him the simplest to understand Low Carb diet book (including pictures) even a third grader could follow; and later the books by Bernstein when his high A1C was first noted, which he refused to read, expecting me to tell him what to eat.
Then after his heart attack, proceeds to tell me it was my fault because I got rid of cooking oils, so for him (MD told him?) it was the saturated fat. Doesn’t count for all the other garbage he ate at home or away from home, or the self-imposed stress from watching FOX news nearly 24/7.
He is vain enough that I believe/hope that he will observe my success eating this way. I’ve not spoken a word of my diet change to him, except when one day he saw me weigh the leftovers I was packing in a small container (for work lunch) to get an idea how much I was eating….until then I hadn’t measured, just ate to satiety and refrigerated what remained. He asked me how much I allowed myself to eat, “As much as I’m hungry for.” And he sees me actually cooking a slab of meat for myself. I eat when I am hungry. I expect him to do the same….but he tends to eat by the clock…and snack in between on carby crap.
I haven’t eaten by a clock in years, but was eating a lot of carby crap before the SHTF for me. (potential kidney issues described above)
He’s done several low carb diets in his past (before he even knew me) which had built in cheat days with a meal of cabbage, cottage cheese and a slice of toasted bread. He only ate the amounts listed and not to satiety the meats…therefore the diet no one could comply for very long….and then back to rebound eating of anything and everything with extra fat for insurance. You know the drill.
The first time he decided I needed to follow him on that diet (Ski Team Diet) I was perhaps 5 pounds overweight… but actually fine weight-wise, just skinny fat…and just a day or two before I discovered I was pregnant with our first. He went on with the diet (off and on) until he was once again skinny fat (always kept the trunk weight) when our son was born.
I think Low Carb would increase the odds for his compliance to diet and if I prepared all his meals (plate it up for him like a child) and only if I could convince him to remove all the temptation foods from the house: canned, fresh or frozen.
If by my continuing this way over the next 6 to 12 months; becoming my natural size small/8-10 (what is visible is more relevant to him), then perhaps he will follow, too…to become his natural size/shape…which he’s NEVER been. He’s always carried excess trunk fat. He is truly big-boned (determined by X-ray which surprised his physicians) at shy of 6′, but apple-shaped/belly hanging over the belt is not a good look for anyone.
OK, I’ve worn everyone out here. I’ll keep doing my thing and post here if I develop any negative issues with this way of nutrition. If I drop the ‘diet’ or modify it +/- carbs, even the coffee, (BIG mug with 3T gelatin and cream) I still drink, I’ll also let you know.
Yeah, gelatin supposedly isn’t necessary, but it has served me well over the last 5 years. Better (not best) skin and nails…and with D3 even better skin and nails (hard to break so they grow fast and long) and with near zero carb even better skin. Who knew?
Hi Matt or AnnB or anybody…not to beat a dead horse here, BUT is it possible that the negative side effects (profound irritability) that I get on a low carb diet are due to rapidly burning through excessive stores of vitamin A?
Or the insane immunological issues (brain feels absolutely fried and chronic cold sores) I experience when I go on a very low fat diet are because I radically increase the use of low fat dairy products, all of which are fortified with vitamin A of course.
Any thoughts?
Grant says something about stress causing the release of vitamin A from the liver, which is why many with autoimmune diseases experience flare-ups with stress.
He also mentions that fat helps to emulsify vitamin A and protect us from its negative effects. I think a low-fat diet with lots of vitamin A would be worse than a normal diet with lots of vitamin A. I noticed, when eating very low in fat for a couple months earlier this year, that eating lots of tomatoes, citrus, or watermelon (all very high in carotenoids) gave me a small rash on my neck, which went away quickly by increasing my fat intake without any change in vitamin A intake.
Magic Maker:
Low carb and zero plant are two different diets. The veterans at ZIOH (Zeroing in on Health) don’t eat dairy (naturally occurring or added) so they have no issues with imbalance of Vitamin A or D. Meat and water only can eventually balance any over or under nutrition…and likely at a rate that is more kind to the body than trying to find a magic number with supplements. And here I thought I was doing myself a favor to hurry the process along to supplement D3 (prior to the diet), but then I didn’t have a clue about Vitamin A being the potential culprit in all the milk I was chugging.
I posted the link you provided on Vitamin A toxicity at ZIOH (Zeroing in on Health) a public group at FB so you can read posts and access files without joining. Discussion on that post this morning can be read. Search my Ann. Rather Charles reminded me/us of the lack of necessity to supplement; allowing our wise body to sort it out.
As Charles reminded, carbohydrates compete for/need more vitamins and minerals to digest/utilize. No carbs, less need. Meat has what/all we need. My satiety/stable mood tells me it’s true. I need no other indicators.
Regarding tolerance/mood on low carb and low fat diets: Even beginning zero carb – before I found ZIOH I had some cooked onion on ground beef, celery with copious amounts of cream cheese, cream in coffee; I actually gained more tolerance for others (but not for the screaming/speed talking heads on News channels-I don’t watch, but husband does in excessive amounts) and less for physical clutter. I don’t hoard boxes anymore, so I need to locate some to fill up with stuff “that is neither useful or beautiful” to us.
I cooked up some chicken yesterday and day before. Yuck compared to beef…but I ate it. I think, as many do, I’ll just stick with beef.
Keep reading.
Magic Maker:
Correction…Turtlegurl provided the Vit A toxicity link/e-book.
Intolerance on Low Carb, could be the low carb choices you’ve allowed in that diet making you constantly hungry physically and mentally for more. Like an addict is anxious for a fix and be damned anyone who gets in the way/even the self.
I didn’t do well Low Carb – yeah I lost weight with great effort but with the constant nagging for more carbs. Why it failed for me as well as the magical thinking that it was for weight loss only and eating less fat would make it work better. NOT.
My first weeks with Zero Carb were more Low Carb, but the celery and onions had no carb craving effect. As an experiment (and because they were/are still in the refrigerator I ate some strawberries (from coworker) and some celery with cream cheese yesterday and day before, including 1/8 cup of nuts while waiting for the chicken to cook. Bad idea. Stomach distress I’d not had in a couple weeks. Not painful, but there…just sitting in the stomach. Required some bicarb.
I realize now that no plants means something. I hadn’t realized the gradual improvement that not including celery or onions had provided.
I wasn’t hankering for any of those things, just curious to see what a ‘cheat’ would do…and didn’t want to let it go to waste. An experiment I won’t be repeating.
Off to work a few hours and then cook up some beef.
AnnB,
On June 16th, I wrote a reply to your last note to me, just FYI.
Regarding one of my previous questions, I’ll post it again here, since you wrote that “Meat has what/all we need.”
From the first of my June 16th posts:
“This is something I wondered about Charlene, too. In looking at the nutrition data for a single ribeye steak, it has, among other things, the following:
Amount: 1 steak (291 g)
Calories: 847
? Total Fat 63 g (96%)
? Saturated Fat: 28 g (140%)
? Polyunsaturated Fat: 3 g
? Monounsaturated Fat: 31 g
? Trans Fat: 4.3 g
? Cholesterol: 233 mg (77%)
? Sodium 157 mg (6%)
? Potassium 757 mg (21%)
? Total Carbohydrate 0 g (0%)
? Dietary Fiber 0 g (0%)
? Sugar 0 g
? Protein 69 g (138%)
? Vitamin A: 1%
? Calcium: 3%
? Vitamin D: 5%
? Vitamin B-12: 101%
? Vitamin C: 0%
? Iron: 36%
? Vitamin B-6: 70%
? Magnesium: 16%
Q: Are you not concerned about the lack of certain vitamins and minerals?
Q: How about the absence of fiber to feed gut bacteria?
Q: Are you not concerned about the high protein? (IGF-1)
Q: What about the various phytochemical and antioxidants that we would otherwise get from vegetables and fruit?”
You were nice enough to respond and mentioned that fiber wasn’t required for us to “make poop.” Which, in my reply, I agreed. But, the question was about using fiber to feed gut bacteria.
Secondly, you wrote that you weren’t concerned about getting too much protein on a meat-only diet, as you don’t overeat and that “other carnivores” don’t worry about it. In my reply to you (June 16th), I asked if you or your ZC/ZIOH colleagues thought humans to be carnivores versus being omnivores. I then mentioned the similarities between humans and chimpanzees, regarding stomach shape/size, stomach pH, length of digestive tract, teeth structure, etc.
Perhaps you saw the questions and simply chose to ignore them. Or, perhaps you didn’t see them. Whatever the case, if you’re so inclined, I’d love to get your feedback on these matters. As I also previously wrote, the meat-and-water diet is definitely interesting and I’m intrigued. I’m hesitant, but still intrigued.
I’m also happy that you’ve made so many improvements in such a short amount of time. Whether it’s meat-and-water or something else, I hope your husband finds something to help him, too. Based on what I read in your previous posts, you do A LOT to try and help him. It’s too bad you can’t find a way to block Fox News from him. That would probably help considerably. :-)
Take care,
Carl
Quasars are an example of how “energycis used casually. These objects shoot cjets of energy” that extent 5 million light years etc. Well, there is no such thing as energy, nothing can BE energy kr be made of energy. We must say WHAT theynare wmiting. They emkt PARTICLES. STUFF. There is NO SUCH thing as a “particle made of energy, Nor js ther ANY suxh thing as Food made kf energy….. FOOD IS MATTER. MATYER IS WHAT WE INGEST. THE CHEMICAL COMPOSITION is very important. We eat nutrients, carbon, nitrogen,etc.
I challenge anybody in the Blogosphere to refute this in the Blogosoher. Guyemet and McDonlad can rail on me all they like, write their hokey articles.It is THEY who are misinformed. Grossly!
They CANNOT refute ” this because my infirmation is from the best physicists on the planet. Energy is OUR ACCOUNTING TRICK, A N U M B ER. People make it mkre than that. Energy beams or pure energy is oure no sense and not part of physicws.
I habe said this many rims. Energy IS NOTHING. SHORT AMD SWEET VERSION. N O T H I N G AT ALL. THE END.This IS the truth. I promise.
When physicists say “energy is transformed from one form to anotherc, theymRAE USING LAZY SHORTHAND. Lev Okun and Art Hobson went i to grat DETAIL that “energy” is a N U M B ER WE COMPUTE.IT IS NOT ANY , ANY extranstuff of ANY sort. Lyle CANNOT umderstand this.
Nothing , no thing, no onject no radiation can “BE energy” There is also No object or radiation ” MADE of energy”….. Why? Bevause energy is NOTHING, IT DOESNZT EXISTin nature JUST OU
R ACCOUNTING TRICK.
Am I made of SPINDLY? NO.
Now forces DO exist. That is NOT the same as energy.
We have an entire Blogosphere who cannot uuderstand the subtleties of “energy.” This issue will always be a point of contention because these very Boohgers who give me poop about this MISUNDERSTAND ENTIRELY energy and its equally fictitious units, the host of units we use. We onky need ONE UNIT ROR ALL.
Energy is an accounting trick. It is a damn human made ACOOUNTING TRICK. YOU CANNOT DAMAGE CELLS OR DO ANYTHING TO A HUMANS$X CELLS WITH ENERGY OR ITS UNITS. PHHSICISTS ARE VERY CLEAR ABOUT THAT.We alsoo invented units, joules, caloroes, there ks nothing soecial about ANY of these INVENTIONS, these arbitray units. We could DISCONTINUE WITH ALL OF THEM TODAY AND INVENT A NEW UNIT CALLED “JOULEYWOOLEYS”
It is not that there is no such thing as caooroes to yoir body, Skeptic, it IS THAT THERE IS NO SUCH THING OR STUFF WHATSOEVER AS CALORIES- PERIOD. Energy is not ANYTHING. NOTHING …..Their EXACT WORDING. NOTHING ,” IN BRIEF, NOTHING “. AS THE EDUCATED PH.D.’s on Quora noted, too. The Internet gurus just cannot and will nlt ACCEPT THIS INFO, suxh as RICHARD NIKOLEY. They slent their lives full of misconceptiins
Lyle McDonald’s, CarbSane’s, Stephan Guyenet’s, and Richard Nikoley’s writings on energy make for good virtual TOILET PAPER. (And their books ACTUAL toilet paper.
Think of it this way; (As explained by physics professors)
The most devastating, most violent and powerful event (that we inow of…..) in the universe is a Gamma Ray Burst. These things would vaporize planet Earth if we ever had a direct hitand were close enough to the original blast. Gamma rays are radiation, not matter , but definitely stuff. Now, a Gamma Ray Burster “possesses more energy , ten times more energy than the Sun will put out in its entire life.” However, it is the STUFF, the radiation, the gamma rays themselves, that would act and destroy us. The energy is a NUMBERR assigned by humans to the burst of radiation. The “energy” the GRB oossesses could not do sh@t to us. It’s totally mathematical fiction.
Energy is a totally abstract mathematical fiction and the AMOUNT is OBSERVER DEPENDENT. Gamma Rays are STUFF . Entities in Nature, not a number. Gamma Rays are part of the electromagnetic field/spectrum. They are deadly.
It is NOT energy that will kill us and our planet. We were actually hit in 2008 but it came soooooo far away, billions of light years that it had very little effect.
I found another “new” diet:
The Thermo Diet
https://www.truthnutra.com/pages/the-thermo-diet-guidelines-thermo30-roadmap
Only, it’s not-so-new, of course. There’s…
* Calorie restriction
* 16-18 hours of daily fasting
* Eat fruit and starches; vegetables not required
* Saturated/monounsaturated fats
* Grass-fed/pastured/wild animal products (no pork)
* 50% Carbs, 30% Protein, 20% Fat
* Avoiding PUFAs, beans, seeds, most nuts, peanuts, food additives, soy, tofu, mint tea, oatmeal, NSAIDs, beer, iron-enriched flour, and grains
* Take supplements
Sign me up. Sounds revolutionary.
Yeah your thyroid loves long fasts and caloric restriction lol
Oh, boy…I found another one.
The ChronoDiet
https://www.chronobiology.com/chronodiet
More of the same, repackaged advice.
Also, there seems to be some contradictions – such as suggesting one can load-up on carbs in the morning (giving examples of pancakes and maple syrup or bread and jam), but, in a different paragraph, advising not to eat too much sugar in the morning.
Razwell, if you happen to see this, the following paragraph is for you!
“Carbohydrates, proteins and fats are burned by the billions of cells in the body to provide necessary energy. One gram of carbohydrates generates four calories of energy, while a gram of protein is around two to five calories and a gram of fat come in around nine calories. If you don’t burn calories, that’s when they are stored and subsequently trigger weight gain.”
Lots of fun.
Hi Carl, Ha ha I stumbled across this “diet” just the other day too!
As I read through his stuff I immediately recognized how influenced he is by Ray Peat’s work (which is perfectly FINE in my opinion).
My history is that I lost close to 80 lbs. doing a ketogenic diet, worked great until it didn’t. My metabolism completely crashed and I went searching for answers as to how on earth I became diabetic despite strictly eating NO carbs, grains or sugar for two years. And I wasn’t fat either.
I came across Ray Peat’s work and I’ve been following an RP inspired diet for the last four years. I initially gained 40 pounds back, became depressed about that and tried to prove RP wrong. I was unsuccessful.
My health/metabolism improved hugely over the last four years and I’ve lost the 40 pounds that I initially gained. I can eat like a normal person (actually more than most women my age) without gaining fat and my A1c is back down to 5.0.
As strange as that dude may seem, he surely gets a lot of stuff right.
The Thermo Diet might work great WITHOUT THE FASTING AND CALORIE RESTRICTION….but then you might not get be ripped.
I still have ten pounds to lose, been stuck here for years. I’m not sure what the answer is for a middle aged peri-menopausal formerly obese woman…it certainly isn’t Eat Less Move More.
Sincerely,
Anotha Peatard
A while back Carl was talking about infectious diseases. I guess it’s been in the back of my mind because the other day, I did a search on viruses that cause obesity. Turns out, there has been a good bit of research on this topic but in my opinion the researchers have not gone far enough. Has this already been discussed on 180D? I read back through some of Matt’s posts and hundreds of comments, but I couldn’t find it. However, I feel like it has been brought up in one context or another. So I apologize if I’m rehashing old news. Anyway, one virus that has been implicated is adenovirus 36 (ADV 36). It can initially cause upper respiratory tract and eye infections. But in the long run, some people who are infected with it gain a lot of weight over a period of 10 years or so. It seems to cause more and bigger fat cells to develop. About 30% of obese people test positive for ADV 36 antibodies. About 11% of people who are not obese test positive for the antibodies. But even those non-obese individuals are heavier than those who do not test positive.
This is the part that makes me mad: no one seems to be working on an antidote. One of the initial researchers, Nikhil Dhurandhar, is now selling a diet plan. His website provides few details about it, but I suspect it is centered on restriction.
Is it possible that the reason so many people who eat for heat do not lose weight is because their root problem is an infection rather than strictly metabolism?
I’m back to trying to follow Lianda’s advice to accept my body and find joy in my life.
Hi, Jeanne:
Personally, I think the topic of infections is an important one. As I have one foot in the world of Lyme Disease and Coinfections, this is a common discussion.
By “infections,” I don’t just mean viruses and bacteria, but also parasites. The topic is commonly dismissed in the U.S., but we deworm animals once or twice a year.
Also, in the U.S., in previous generations, children were routinely dewormed, too. In some cases, getting infected can happen easily — scooping a litter box, letting an animal lick one’s face (barf!), being bitten by certain insects.
See http://DebugYourHealth.com and click “Parasites.”
Under the “Lyme” tab, you can read about how lice may have played a role in the entire family contracting Lyme Disease. It’s hardly just ticks that carry pathogens.
Again, I think it’s a topic that should be more widely discussed.
All that stated, I do think Lianda’s advice is wise. Perhaps not easy, but definitely wise. :-)
That’s not to say you should abandon your health goals, but pursuing them while also being kind to yourself will almost certainly make the journey easier and more sustainable. You deserve kindness from others AND from yourself.
Thanks Carl. The information on parasites and various ways to become infected with Lyme is really interesting. I don’t think conventional medicine and researchers in general are asking good questions. I hope that someday there will be answers to chronic health problems such as obesity, pain, etc. I think Matt is on the right track. A healthy metabolism probably goes a long way in preventing many health issues and some health issues can probably be improved if not eliminated by increasing metabolism. There are no magic pills to eradicate adenoviruses, parasites, etc. So the best advice I’ve ever received is to just eat the food and accept my body.
Hi Carl, : )
I had to tell you this: I am sorry about your LymeDisease. But you are in luck. Urgelt has mentioned that he has Lyme Disease at his YouTube channel, in the comments section.He has written some brilliant articles and comments. He reallllyy digs into it and knkws soooooo much mkre aboit Lyme Disease than I. I barely knkw diddly squat abou it. Just Google his comments. He may habe answers for you to some degree. Maybe you guys could help each other. He is totally frustrated at the medical community’s wrong view and dogma. Urgelt has the studies that refute much lf what doctors tell us.
Generally speaking, Urgelt is ohenomenal when it comes tombacteria, viruses, infectious topics. That is not at all my area and he greatly exceeds me on those subjects. I respect his knokwledge about those specific topics
Hope he helps you. Well, back to retirement, just had to lend a possible hand. : )
Best wishes,
Razz
Hi, Razz:
Thanks so much for the helping hand!
I’ve only watched a couple of Urgelt’s videos, after you mentioned them in comments to others. But, I had no idea he had/has Lyme Disease, too. I’m definitely sorry to hear that news.
Yes, I’ll definitely search the comments on his videos!
You are, of course, right about all the incorrect information about Lyme Disease in the medical community. Definitely in most “conventional” practices, but also in some “alternative” practices, too.
Sadly, like in many other areas, there are a lot of opportunistic “doctors” and “health coaches” cashing-on on people’s lack of understanding, their desperation, and fear. The topic, as Matt has previously written, is murky.
Anyway, I’ll check-in on Urgelt and see if, as you mentioned, that he and I might be able to help each other.
Thanks again, buddy! :-)
Happy Retirement,
Carl
We’ve discussed chronic infections and their relationship with high cortisol since way back. The Potbelly Syndrome is a fairly interesting book, although it’s a little old now, that discusses this topic specifically.
Carl, If you haven’t already, you might want to check out http://potbellysyndrome.com/. It has some interesting information about how chronic infections affect health.
Matt, As I understand it, Adv 36 directly causes fat cells to multiply and become larger rather than causing an increase in cortisol which unleashes a cascade of problems. Fat cells were injected in a laboratory environment (not in an animal’s body) with Adv 36 and they multiplied and grew bigger.
Yeah, I caught that distinction right away Jeanne. That’s a major discovery. I wonder how many different elements can trigger similar changes. I consider fat cell count and size as the primary drivers of serious, pathological obesity.
Thank you, Jeanne and Matt.
I just saw this in a summary of Potbelly Syndrome:
“Find the Right Doctors
If you have heart disease or potbelly syndrome, the
most important thing you can do for your health is
to find doctors who understand chronic infections,
inflammation, cortisol, and insulin resistance. Two
places to look for infectious disease specialists are:
* http://www.cpnhelp.org, a website dedicated
to fighting Chlamydophila pneumoniae
(CPN) infections.
* http://www.lymediseaseassociation.org, the
website of the Lyme Disease Association.
It will be harder to find doctors who
thoroughly understand inflammation, cortisol, and
insulin resistance. If you like your current doctor,
give him a copy of this document and let him mull
it over for a while. If, when you see him again, he
orders tests for CPN, CMV, CRP, ALT, and AST,
or he tells you he is reading The Potbelly Syndrome,
then you may have found the right doctor.”
http://www.potbellysyndrome.com/attach/PBS_Summary.pdf
Very interesting. I think I’ll share this book title on the Lyme Disease forum I sometimes visit.
I wish the book were available in audio format, though. I’ll never get through a print copy.
Matt, if you could narrate it for me, that’d be greeeaat. Mmm, yeeeeaahhh.
This is good stuff, Carl. The biggest problem I have is in finding a good doctor. Most are nice and I think they want to help. But they just follow the decision trees put out by the insurance companies. I haven’t found a single one willing to use critical thinking skills to address any of my problems. So I don’t go to doctors any more. I’m hoping that raising my metabolism will help my immune system to address whatever infections or other issues my body has. It seems like that’s about all I can do for now.
When it comes to doctors, Jeanne, I think I can somewhat relate to your experience.
Over the past five years, I’ve seen at least a dozen (I’ve lost track) doctors.
Some were “regular” doctors that accepted insurance and followed the AMA/insurance thinking.
But, others were doctors (MDs, DOs, NDs, and DCs) that got tired of dealing with the headaches of insurance companies and reimbursements, so they became “Functional Medicine” or “Integrative Medicine” doctors.
That means they only accept cash and can then offer a variety of (sometimes unproven) treatments that they wouldn’t be able to offer with the involvement of insurance companies. (HBOT, IV Vitamin C or other Vitamins/Minerals, IV Chelation, Ozone Treatments, etc.)
Of course, the docs have to disclaim some things and/or state that a particular treatment is an “off-label use.”
Initially, I thought that “Functional Medicine” was going to be the Holy Grail of medicine, but, after lots of expensive tests, treatments, and supplements, I started to think that perhaps it was simply a more profitable endeavor for them.
Now, it’s not fair for me to paint all of them with the same brush, of course. I do think many of them are really wanting/trying to help people and make a positive difference. But, clearly, some are not. They just write books, host summits, and sell products. I guess it’s a mixed-bag, like most things in life. Others are likely blinded by what they think they know and/or what they’ve been told by others in their bubble.
All that said, there are good ones out there. Unfortunately, it takes time and money to cycle-through them and find the right one.
Finally, I think you’re doing good things by focusing on the big picture and working to increase your overall metabolism. I think Conventional *and* Alternative providers get too caught-up in niche/boutique things.
I certainly wish you much luck!
this shit is so funny, i almost cried.
Which part, roman?
I have a few questions, but first I wanted to share this because I feel it might help someone who went through, or is going through this same thing. I know most people diet to lose weight. I, however, did not. I am naturally thin. I am naturally a size 3/5. Right no, I am a size 11. I started dieting due to health issues because someone mentioned going gluten free to stop child number 3 from throwing everything up after nursing. That opened up a world of health issues for my family and I. We ended up with a Candida overload and tried every anti candida diet out there and none of them worked, at all. There was never really a honeymoon stage for us. If there was, it was very short lived. Like less than 2 months each. Some not even that long. And it as so hard to keep it up with my children craving so much sugar and fat. I found Matt’s first book on a Paleo website and downloaded and read it before child number 4 was born. We were Paleo at the time. Two weeks before he was born, I craved every carb and fat imaginable. So, we got carb rich foods. I believe, because I dieted, my body did not have the energy to deal with delivery. This was the hardest and longest labor I had gone through. 24 hours of painful labor. Two hours of pushing. I was so worn out, I could barely sit up after delivery. This is after delivering 3 babies in a matter of minutes every time. I was in hard labor for only 10 minutes with my 3rd child and barely felt the contractions. It felt as if I was doing a sit up. Well, after finally delivering my son, I gained weight after a month or two. Three weeks after I had him, I got pneumonia an multiple blood clots in my lungs. I baffled the Drs. because they could not figure out how I developed both at the same time. They believed the blood clots caused the pneumonia, but were not sure where the clots came from because there was not sign of clots anywhere else. They tested me for clotting disorders and found out that I was low in protein reactive c and protein s. I looked into this and fond out that they can be caused by, wait for it, a low metabolism. Of course, the Drs said it was hereditary. They started me on Lovenox. Then, slowly added Coumadin. This messed my already screwed up system up. My hair started falling out by the handfuls. I had enough energy to get out of bed, change, go to the bathroom and go to the living room, where I was a vegetable. I itched all over. My husband said I scratched like I was a drug addict. I looked into other options. the Dr said it was normal, but my mom had the same reaction and her Dr said it was an allergic reaction. All he told me was that he can prescribe me something else when I told him I was going to stop taking it. He gave me another prescription, but I never filled it. It was not safe for women who were nursing. I ended up hearing about Nattokinase and started taking it. I felt better and do not take anything for that now, except every now and then to make sure. As I have said in earlier posts, I gave my children candy and ice cream whenever they wanted to help them. This included me. I did lose some of the weight I gained after delivering my 4th child, but not much. I still struggle with keeping my temps up. The last few day, however, My temps have been really great. In the 99’s by mid afternoon. I can feel the difference if my temps are raising and if they are just low. Right now, I am tired. Like, I could go to sleep and sleep all night. This will happen for a few days, If I keep them up that long, Then I will get energy. But I have been eating like crazy. I am always hungry. Is this normal? I feel like a growing teenager. I drink, too, but I eat so much. to satisfaction, too. I am craving carbs like they are going out of style. Is this to keep my temps up? I notice that the higher my temp rises, the more I want to eat. I believe I no longer have that blood clotting disorder. Although, I have not officially been tested. I might test it to see if I fixed it by upping my metabolism.
Also, I noticed that I can tolerate caffeine better when my temp is higher. I don’t get sick to my stomach. When I had caffeine before, it would make me so sleepy. This is right after drinking it. No alertness, just exhausted. Not sure why. Today, I had some cold brewed coffee my husband got to see if it would effect me the same way. ( Note: the last time I had coffee, I felt like I drank a whole bottle of wine. I felt drunk. Acted that way, too. I had to have help to walk and could barely sit up.) Well, today, it did not have that effect on me. Actually, it had not effect whatsoever. No energy, but no crash, either. Well, I say no effect. It made me more hungry. Has anyone ever had this happen? I can only drink certain drinks at certain times. Most or the time, the only thing that quenches my thirst is carbonated drinks. It does not have to be soda. I can drink sparkling water in some juice or a tea, but it has to be carbonated. I usually know within a few sips whether it will quench my thirst or not. Sometimes, I go weeks drinking the same drink because that is all I want. Then, without notice, it changes. It could be just a few days, or just once. But it has never been water that I drink. Not once, in the last 3 years, have I wanted water. Not even when my temps are great. Is this a normal part of all this? I am not sure if not wanting water is good or bad. Also, the caffeine thing is a little weird. Going from not being able to tolerate it to not having that effect is odd. If anyone has had anything like this happen, then let me know, please.
To add to this, I noticed the higher my temps, the less fat I want and the more carbs I want.
The entire Blogosphere is totally misunderstanding, misusing, abusing energy. Energy is not anything. Energy is not at all any kind of stuff, it ks abstract mathe atical fiction.
-THE FEYNMAN/RAZWELL CHALLENGE TO STEPHAN GUYENET, LYLE MCDONALD, CARBSANE, AND OTHER WHO MISLEAD AND LIE TO READERS:
@ EXPLAIN the disease of obesity WITHOUT EVER, EVER using the word “energy”.@
I guarantee they cannot. Since energy is an accounting trick, abstract mathematical fiction (nothing at all in iteself) and does not and cannot act or make objects move , since. energy is not any mechanism , nor explanation whatsoever for any phenomena, this MEANS Guyenet, Willett, Kevin Hall, do NOT understand obesity (even in principle as energy is NOT an explanation) , NOR do these charlatan con men have ANY kimd of EXPLANATION FOR obesity WHATSOEVER.
Atoms jiggle. They bump into other atoms.
When you hear of the definition of calories, REPLACE “energyc WITY THIS PHRASE “The ABSTRACT MATHEMATICAL FICTION” it takes to heat up wone gram of water one degree celcius.
ENERGY DOES NOT ACT. ENERGY DOES NOT heat up water. Energy is not ANYTHING. .Energy and itss units do NOT ACT They do NOT heat up water. THINK IN YERMS OF MATTER AND MOTION. ATOMS ARE MATTER, THEY HAVE MOTIIN AND WHEN THEY JIGGLE FAST ENOUGH, THESE JIGGLING ATOMS IN MOTIIN EMIT RADIATION
MOTIONS OF ATOMS heats up water. Motion is a phenomenon. Motion is NOT energy.Nor is force. We ASSIGN energy (useful mathematical fiction) DUE TO MOTION.
Infrared heat is STUFF, RADIATION, PART OF THE ELECTEOMAGNETIC FIELD.
The heat is radiation, radiation is not matter BUT it IS STUFF.It is Part of the electric field. Fields are also stuff, just invisible, but real entities! Radio waves are invisible stuff, also part of the electric field.
Radiation is invisible (largely invisible to humans)BUT stuff ! Entity that can act. Part of nature. Component if the uniberse, UNLIKE energy, which is mathematical fiction, not some stuff that comprises the universe..
HOWEVER, SUCH IS NOT THE CASE for energy (which is ONKY A NUMNER)and that js CRUCIAL TO UMDERSTAND.. Energy is a NUMBER humans compute.We find it useful for tidy bookeeping. We assign energy to fields, some number weccall “energy”. Energy, calories joukes are NOT ANY kind of entity. Atoms jiggle faster and faster and they will eventually emit heat and light-radiation. Thermal radiation is STUFF. Energy and its units are FICTION. What js energy? In nrief, NOTHING said Perimeter Institute physicists. (The short answer)
Calories are invented , ENTIRELY FICTITIOUS AS ARE ALL UNITS, theynare all exactky the same, equally arbitrary. JUST SILLY INVENTIONS SAID FEYNAMN. We habe far too many. All these units are the same, all invented, silly etc. Inverse fermions, joules, calorieszalll exactly the same.
If Feynman were alive, he’d publicly applaud Gary Taubes and tell Guyenet to stop misusing physics for his outdated personal agenda. McDonald , CarbSane and Guyenet throw the term energy around A LOT, none of them even remotely understand it. Feynman said it is subtle, difficukt to understand and difficult to use right.
Just my last attempt to explain this to readers to challenge MCDonakd et al. Have a great day , everybody and never be bullied by the ohysics illiterate Lyle McDonald , Coloo, Guyenet, CarbSanegain. This js really all I can say. Back to retirement. : )
As Feynman said , since energy is NOT ANY mechanism , nor any explanation ever for any lhenomena IF Lyke McDonald et al cannot explain obesity or posit its CAUSE WITHOUT, WITHOUT EVER using the word “energy”, then they have no theory and do not u derstand anything about obesity.
FEYNMAN’S ESSENTIAL POINT IN HIS” WHAT IS SCIENCE ARTICLE?”, If you cannot explain a phenomena WITHOUT invoking the word energy, you do NOT u derstamd the phenomenon you are studying, PLAIN AND SIMOLE AMD STRAIGHT FEOM RICHARD FEYNMAN HIMSELF, A MAN FAR SMARTER than these bloggers. This was very imoortant to say. Feynman SAID IF you invoke energy as a cause, mechanism or explanation of a phenomenon , you are SAYING MAGIC CAUSED THE PHENOMNON…….
Posit this challenge to tCarbSane
and tell them it is from me. They will fail.If Gary Taubes started a lecture with this statement, he would shut the(m down instantly.(CarbSane audiences)
Hopefully, I habe left my mark on the blogging world and si singlehandedly taken down these physics abusing bullies after much studying of the tooic.
I HAD SOME INVERSE FERMIONS TODAY FOR BREAKFAST, BOY WERE THEY TASTY LOL.. SOMEHOW THEY MAGICALLY TURNED INTO TISSUE LOL…..
Take care, everybody : ) Walks toward the sunset (radiation). : )
Ah, yes, the Magic-In/Magic-Out of Inverse Fermions!
You need to eat just enough (but, not too much) to achieve Inverse Fermion Balance!
Here’s a commercial to be shown during Saturday morning cartoons (do they even do that anymore?):
“Hey, kids! Try new Frosted Inverse Fermions from Kellogg! Yes, a big bowl of Frosted Inverse Fermions will give you all the Magic you need to keep you going all day! Tell your parents to buy a box of Frosted Inverse Fermions today!”
LOL!!!!! , Carl , : )
See, everybody, “energy” is NOT something that exists in nature- at all , it is NOT a piece or component of nature of that that comprises nature. Real stuff that exists are thigns such as fields, forces, wind, photons, light, heat ( radiation) atoms, electrons, rocks, humans, space, – these are all phenomena.
Energy is a number plain and simple. Energy was not even discussed in phsyics until phsycists found in the 18th century it could be USEFL in equations, it is bookkeeping, humans want tidy bookeeping, it is an accounting trick, some dopey number we compute.
Forces are real , they are phenomena. The gravitational force ( a force field) is there. It exists, some entity, mysterious as it is.
We measure “weight” , a FORCE.
People confuse forces and electricity with energy, a human INVENTED ABSTRACION/CHARCTERISTIC- NOTHING- . Energy does’;t exist in nature only in physicists thoughts and some “device” they make use of in equations for convenience
“Energy bill” is SLANG for FUEL. It is technically wrong but just common vernacular.
Volts, now, are a measure of electric TENSION- STUFF, PHENONMENON. Electricty is stuff and the tension it carries is real. Fiorces are real- Mike Tyson;s punch would harm our bodies. Eneergy, though, is soem NUMBER we use in equations- it isnot any kind of phenomemnon that comprises Nature.
Eneergy “does not have to come from somewhere” or “is not created”because it is not ANYTHING at all. That is why you hear these expressions. It never was antyhing at all to begin with……
Energy itself is not anythiing,. it DOESN;T exist in Nature….. Neither do the units we use,. calories, joules, ergs- they are N-O-T-H-I-N-G. Energy is made up, forces are not. Two entirely different situations etc.
Hope this helps. Certain foods can be very flammabale, but there is NO SUCH invisible ENTITY AT ALL as calories or ergs in food or otherwise- no such entity as energy in food either. Food exists, the eelctrons exist etc.
When somebody tells you that “energy” made a human body move, or a child’s toy move , they are saying MAGIC did it. Feynman hismelf likened it to this explanation.
Energy balance is abject nonsense, meanigless expression and is AKIN to saying MAGIC causes obesity. TAUBES IS VERY CORRECT! Google “Feynman What Is Science Wakalixies”- he talks all about saying “sprit made it move” if one invokes eneergy as ANY explanation or mechanism.
FEYNMAN debunks Guyenet all day and twice on Sunday about “energy”/ Feynman was the top scientist that Oppenheimer admired on the Los Alamos project,
The chemical reactions in ther body are governed ny the electromagnetic FORCE, this force governs all of biology.
ATP is matter- STUFF. it is totally wrong to say it is energy. FUEL is the word. The electromagnetic force is responsible for all he chemcial reactions of human metabolism – ALLLL of biology, in fact.
This about sums it up: Say this to these people
“Hey Lyle McDonald and Stephan GUyenet, stop saying “energy” is an entiy in nature. Energy is NOTHING , in short… ( direct quote from Perimeter Institute physicist In brief, energy is NOT ANYTHING. Calories, joules erg,. inverse fermions are NOT A N Y T H I N G. Energy and it units are not any part, piece or component of or in nature . Energy is a number humans compute for convenience, it ONLY exists in the thoughts of physcists. It goes no further than that. Anytime one invokes “energy:” as ANY CAUSE, MECHANISM OR EXLPANATION for some phenomenon ( insert obesity or a kid’s toy moving) this IS AKIN to saying SPIRIT OR MAGIC made the object move.FEYNMAN HIMSELF STRESSED THAT!
That idiot McDonald ONCE told mne by e-mail that “calories” MAKE or CAUSE the metabolic pathways to work and move ROTFLOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
These guys have bullied readers soooo long. ENERGY CANNOT ACT , ( you cannto damage cells with energy! NOR does it make ANY OBJECT MOVE, NOR IS ENERGY THE REASON ATOMS MOVE IN THE FIRST PLACE. It’s J U S T a NUMBER.
I CANNOT BELIEVE what I have read on these variosu forums out there The CICO people are IDIOTS. These UNSCRUPULOUS gurus will CONTINUE to LIE to readers and claim energy is some ENTITY and that it can act or cause or be a mechanism or an exlpanation. NO!!!!! . If they do- CALL THEM ON IT!!!!!
TAKE THIS and CONFRONT those dudes.
Till we meet again. Razzi signing off : )
I received an answer from another contact at the Perimetyer Institute. You are all free to use ANY of what I have written here for your own blogs to set straight the bullies who abuse, misunderrstand and misuse energy despite using the term in every article ( I only ask that you mention me so I can shove it up the bullies’ butts, you cuold even say a well known adversary of Lyle’s, I do not seek fame)
This top tier physicist sums is up NICELY below ( Guess what ? Even Dr. Bray AGREES with Taubes about energy. I talked to him once. I was schocked) I can say for SURE Dr. Bray does NOT hold the same energy position as GUyenet or McDmnald. How ironic.
Here is my answer from a top expert in quantum field theory that I received recently:
“I think those booksalesman gurus have the definition of “energy” which is NOT what it REALLY IS. Energy is NOT a real physical STATE, NOR is it an “intangible substance” ( hear that Stephan GUyenet and Lyle mcDonald??????)_ BUT ONLY a scalar that is ASSIGNED by people to the state of the physical system. Energy is ONLY a tool or mathematical abstraction of a property of physical systems
Questions such as “What is energy made of?” are ttoally invalid and reveal deep ignorance because “energy” is NOT A -N–Y–T–H—I–N G AT ALL….. It’s a human assigned characteristic.
For farrrr too long these bullies ( Lyle and his crew) have been misrepresenting or lying to readers about energy. I am here to correct this.
DEMAND, like FEYNMAN DID, that Lyle et al and his gang of thugs EXPLAIN OBESITY WITHOUT EVER- EVER using the word “energy” ONCE. CALL THEM OUT!
IF they cannot ( and I know they cannot) – they do NOT understand any given phenomena, nor obesity in this particular case. NOR do these dim wits have ANY theory for what causes it.
I am passing the torch ( fire is stuff-not energy!) LOL !!!!Thanks everybody!
Cheers,
Razz
As Feynman himself said, physicists are ONLY interested in anamolies, NOT the usual onservations. I knkw for 100% fact that Guyenet and McDonald for totally full of poop. I would bet my life on it-the cakoroe model is wrong, wrong, laughably wrong.
My neighbor, an immigrant from India, is very fat, it is a burden to her. She walks and walks and walks some more. She is out there constantly. She probably does at least two hours, then the next day right back at it. Despite all of this, she is very significantly fat, hampered by the central area of her body. Fat is like a tumkr. Google Lipodystrophy. Regardless of if the insulin model is the adequate replacement-that is a whole other issue….The fact is ^Gary Taunes asks some GREAT hard hitting MEANINGFUL CREATIVE questions that make Guyenet et al very uncomfortable. CRUSHING DIGNA, and OPENING UP DIALOG AND REAL investigation into the extremely poorly understood disease/phenomenon of severe obesity is Taubes’ GREATEST accomplishment.
Good scientists, like Feynman stressed being comfortabke with being uncomfortable-being outside your xomfirt zone is where PROGRESS ?is made. Mark my words, 10 years rrom nkw I guarantee Guye et and Lyke will have made ZERO progress.They CHOSE SO, as they will not let the outdsted assumotive calorie model fade into oblivion.
I have many thin lazy neighbors who are prissy women who will not even think about cutting tje grass or yardwork. This woman fron India (of humble financial means and who gives SO much if herself day in and day out remains very fat. The calorie model is an insult, a damn DISGRACE to this woman from my block, and the many patients who got very fat on various cancer drugs, the obese people in destitute poverty as well. Guyenet can keep on ignoring these observations…..What is SAD is that Guyenet once said in 2010, PARTITIONING if fuel is one of the central issues we should investigate. That was a good comment. Something happened since then. The body WANTS to hoard fat in severe obesity using these fat cells to do it. I know of some celebs this happened to. I do not wsnt to mention them because I do not want to exploit their tragedies. I am respectful.
It is time to let old outdated myths/beliefs die. Colpo, Guyenet, are 100% dead wrong about obesity and its causes.
I literally just read every single comment on this thread, and it was exhausting. I am now thoroughly certain there is no answer to anyone’s questions. Just speculation about dietary measures that are high in calories and stimulating to the metabolism, that are just as restrictive as a low carb or any other whack job diet but in a polar opposite way. A life without butter and cheese is just as terrible as a life without bread and pasta. You can eat low carb/calorie and be lean and miserable, or high carb/low fat and never have a cheeseburger, macaroni and cheese, or anything else iconically delicious again.
EVERYTHING IS MEANINGLESS!!!!!!
lol jk im good. Bouta have a glass of whole milk though. OOOOOooooooOOOOOooooooo
I had “success” years ago with a low fat diet years ago (also had “success” on keto and zero carb), but I’ve NOT been able to maintain a low fat diet for any length of time since 2014….been trying again for weeks. I cannot do it.
I drink whole (goat) milk, I rotate several kinds of goat cheese and enjoy an entire bar of dark chocolate every single day. Apparently these are foods I can’t live without because I crave them daily and they feel very nourishing to me… so I’ve found that I’m unwilling to change anything at the moment.
Actually, I think the whole macro argument is ridiculous at this point, so I’m giving up trying to control anything.
Hi, Magic Maker:
In a different post to Matt, you noted that you wanted to look into the Vitamin A research that was originally posted here (by “Longtime Anon”), but you would need to sift-through the comments to find the link.
Well, here it is:
https://ggenereux.blog
You can also use the Search/Find option in your browser and search this thread for “ggenereux” to find the posts that have links to specific blog posts about Vitamin A on the other website.
Regards,
Carl
Hi Carl,
Thanks so much for the link. You’ve saved me a bunch of time sifting…..hmmm, a cursory glance tells me this theory will definitely cause me to view my genetic polymorphisms for not converting beta carotene differently.
Another rabbit hole for sure, cheers!!!
AnnB — I thought of you just now when reading some of Grant Genereux’s e-book on Vitamin A toxicity (“ETFOH”). On page 372, he talks about having foamy urine. https://ggenereuxblog.files.wordpress.com/2016/10/extinguishing-the-fires-of-hell2.pdf
Also, I don’t know if you saw a comment of mine a few weeks ago for you? I was wondering if Vit D made you feel better because of how it apparently offsets Vit A? Here’s something he says about Vit D:
?Vitamin D is just a by-product of the solar breakdown of so-called vitamin-A, and it binds to the same cellular receptors. Therefore, vitamin D only appears to be a vitamin because it is far less toxic than vitamin A. And vitamin D blunts the toxicity of vitamin A by blocking up the same receptors, and thereby rate-limits the conversion of vitamin A into the highly toxic retinoic acid form of the retinoid molecule.
Turtlegurl
Thank you for the link to the PDF.
That paragraph may be the explanation…as I’ve never actively sought out Vitamin A. But if deficient in D3 (from the sun—me in spades), then supplementing D3 would seem to naturally counteract it….and keep it in check by a low A diet, more D3 in diet and more sunshine. Probably much too simple extrapolation at this point….
I will get it read entirely soon.
I’ll also pass this on to Jeff T Bowles as well as the Vitamin D Council.
Thank you!
OH-EM-GEE….I’ve just started reading Grant’s work and also perusing the web to learn of different perspectives on Vitamin A and it’s really quite shocking. Frankly, I’m horrified and saddened.
I’m reflecting on my own longtime experience with an autoimmune condition (Hashimoto’s) and it’s bizarre seasonal nature (improves in the summer when I get a LOT of sunshine vitamin D) AND my history of vitamin A supplementation for acne. I also took TWO rounds of Accutane many decades ago. FML.
A new self-experiment is order, apparently this one will take YEARS.
I’m with you on this Magic Maker. It is horrifying and sad. You and I share some of the same health burdens.
The one bright spot I see for myself in all of this is that it gives me a great reason to stop eating beef liver! I hate that stuff! But, I’ve been trying the ? Perfect Health Diet? and a 1/4 pound of beef liver a week is recommended, big part of that is for vitamin A!
Man, I don’t think I am ever going to figure this optimal diet stuff out :(
I bet you experience quite a bit of relief quickly though Magic Maker.
And yeah, I absolutely pounded fortified milk and cereal in my youth, ate shitloads of Flintstone vitamins, and took some acne medication as well. Wore sunscreen religiously. Plus had a brief stint with cod liver oil during my WAPF daze. It makes sense why I’ve suffered so much inflammation throughout my life if Grant’s theories prove to be correct.
Ha ha, I munched several Flintstone’s per day as a child cuz they tasted like candy, kinda chalky, not too bad.
My mother cooked liver and onions fairly regularly when I was growing up, chicken hearts and gizzards too. I like chicken hearts, gizzards not so much (too chewy).
I actually enjoy liver, I guess it’s an acquired taste….but maybe it’s just the bacon/onion slurry it’s swimming in. I happen to love beef braunschweiger and I ADORE liver pate too, eating both those regularly.
Also guzzled copious quantities of cod liver oil and flaxseed oil daily for a couple years…
BUT, all this does make me question..what if Grant’s diet works by depleting PUFA???
Vitamin A is highly unsaturated and an excess definitely can depress the thyroid.
I’ve been operating on the assumption that my vitamin A needs are higher than most peeps due to my own genetic polymorphisms coupled with a history of Accutane use, which I guess I thought down-regulated receptors or something.
This theory has now been flipped on it’s head…at least temporarily.
So far it sounds like the four foods that are both Peat friendly and lower in vitamin A are: beef, white rice, macadamias and raisins. Now I’m left wondering why raisins are low in vit. A, but not grapes?
Does anyone know if the test for serum Retinol Binding Protein is accurate?
I have a LOT to learn.
Yeah, I thought it might be working by PUFA depletion as well. But his experimental animals not developing any problems on a zero Vitamin A diet are compelling, and so are his experiences going on 3 years with no vitamin A at all and in perfect health. That is enough to give his vitamin A theory a great deal of credibility. Of course, avoiding vitamin A AND PUFA is probably a way to get even more anti-inflammatory, anti-cancer bang for your buck.
There are a lot of vegetables with negligible amounts of vitamin A. They are all the white vegetables: turnips, yucca, salsify, celeriac, daikon, peeled white potatoes, jicama, white asparagus, and many others. White fruits should all be pretty damn low in vitamin A as well. Bananas and pineapple are low but have some. Cherimoya has virtually none, and I suspect the same for white-fleshed dragonfruit, lychee, and stuff like that.
With more research, I think a moderate low-vitamin A diet could be devised (with maybe 10% RDA of vitamin A), that could include dozens more food options as part of something more doable and sustainable rather than an extreme experimental diet.
Turtlegirl, Thanks for posting the link to Grant’s book. Fascinating.
Matt, I know there’s no way I could be nearly as restrictive as Grant was in his experimental diet. So I’ve created a document that lists hundreds of foods (in categories such as meat, dairy, starches, vegetables, etc.) from lowest to highest Vitamin A content. This exercise showed me how much I’ve been ODing on A for all my life and especially in the last several (thank you WAPF!). My husband and I are going to try to stick with 1000 IUs or less per day. Plus, we’re taking 3,000 mg of taurine (divided over 3 doses) per day. I’d be happy to post the Word doc I’ve created if anyone is interested and I can figure out how to do it.
I’m going to post something about Grant’s work in July, once I’m done reading both of his books (couple hundred pages to go!). So I would absolutely LOVE to have that list to go with it.
Here are a couple of great posts documenting WAPFers vs. Vitamin A (via FCLO):
http://www.cheeseslave.com/fermented-cod-liver-oil-scandal-many-fclo-customers-report-health-problems/
http://www.cheeseslave.com/fermented-cod-liver-oil-scandal-cathy-raymonds-story-of-head-to-toe-skin-rash-homelessness/
I’d be happy to send along my food list with vitamin A content. Just let me know how to get it to you.
Just send it to my email: sacredself@gmail.com Thank you so much!
Hi Matt,
The relief I’ll be looking for specifically is acne related (I’ve had it since I was 12, except when on Accutane) and possibly spontaneously loss of fat due to less inflammation? Both could be hormonally driven though and may have nothing do with vitamin A at all, who knows?
I don’t have any other high inflammatory markers, homocysteine and hs-CRP are both low. Liver enzymes are low and a liver ultrasound showed NO fatty liver, despite my high vitamin A intake coupled with a high fructose and high saturated fat diet….seems like conventional wisdom would say those factors should be a Triple Whammy for me old lady liver, but I guess not.
However, I did have very high liver enzymes when I was taking Accutane back in college which is precisely why I quite taking it. I also experienced ALL of the side effects that accompany that drug and many of those effects lingered for years.
I do wonder WHY my liver can’t be bothered with converting T4 to T3?
Also, I haven’t had thyroid antibodies for a long time. Apparently the destruction to my thyroid gland was completed a long time ago. I still think that damage could have been caused by infection and profound life altering stress, not necessarily by high vitamin A, but I don’t really know.
A study from Grant’s Extinguishing the Fires of Hell ebook states that the peeps with acne had low retinol and low RBP: “The mean serum concentrations of retinol and retinol-binding protein were significantly decreased in patients with acne (P less than 0.01…”.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/2933053
I’m not sure what all of this means. I’ve read that increasing retinol also increases RBP…still learning.
My first reaction to his theory was that in my own experience, I’ve seen spontaneous remission of a number of autoimmune diseases with the removal of stress, and autoimmune disease strike directly from stress. Grant mentions in the book that stress causes a release of retinoid acid into the serum, and that’s why stress can cause autoimmune flareups. Presumably, even under stress this would not lead to autoimmunity with low Vitamin A status.
Interesting about the low serum levels of retinol in those with acne. I’d love to know what Grant makes of that.
This also makes me wonder if this is not at least one reason why all my health issues started not long after I went from working outside to working in an office all day? Not enough vitamin D to deal with the excess vitamin A?
Hi ASAT,
There definitely exists a relationship between vitamins A & D. It’s a balancing act for sure. Have you ever had your vit. D tested? Do you struggle with acne?
I’ve noticed that every single July my skin gets worse. My birthday is in July, which means celebration and going out for a nice dinner (a rare event). For as long as I can remember I’ve had to deal with trying to cover pimples every single birthday. However, this would NOT include the last four years…
I started tracking everything in 2014 as way to measure my progress with “Peating” and eating for increased metabolism…I’m not trying to push Peat here, it’s just that reading his work was such a huge paradigm shift in thinking for me that I needed proof and measurable markers. So that’s when I started experimenting with supplements of vitamin A including what I consider to be be HUGE doses.
From Cron-OCD I can see that I’ve been spiking my vitamin A intake to 100,000 IU’s or even slightly higher every single July. I haven’t been doing this consciously, I simply take some drops of A whenever my skin breaks out which happens to be worse every July. I also noticed that I take practically no vit. A in the dead of Winter (a time when my vitamin D most likely plummets because where I live = NO sunshine).
I haven’t started the vitamin A depletion diet yet because I’m still reading Grant’s work and studying (while finishing off my supply of toxic OJ, goat cheese and berries). But I haven’t taken any supplemental vitamin A since June 12th and my skin is starting to look like utter SH*T. Inching ever closer to July I’m not sure I can hold out. It’s been real sunny here, I’ve spent A LOT of time outside gardening and have a good tan going, but my face is starting to look like pizza….mmmm, pizza.
Hey Magic Maker,
A July B-Day you say? Me too on the 8th.
I’ve never been able to get my D levels up to 40. Last time it was 33 which has been my highest reading thus far. I have been getting more sun on the weekends and days I work from home. I have to sit in an office three days a week, but I do go out for walks totaling an hour a day.
I have struggled with acne most of my life. I used to get it badly on my neck, chest , and back. I still get occasional flare ups. I’ve also developed rosacea. I do notice flare ups with my acne if I have too much dairy.
I have tried Peating a few times and each time it hasn’t gone well for me. Perhaps I have approached it wrong? A PHD/ Schwarzbein Principle diet combo has been working best of anything I’ve tried thus far. I don’t do the intermittent fasting anymore as recommended by the PHD, well not 16 hours worth and skipping BF. I just cut off eating by 7 pm and eat BF at 7-8 the next day.
I’ve tried so many crazy diets in the past. I am leery of any diet that has extreme restrictions. The vegan diet probably messed me up the most. It worked great until it didn’t!
Acne is a real pain. It’s crazy to me that I am close to 50 and can still have acne flare ups. ????. I remember as a teenager passing in swim parties because I was too embarrassed by it. I wish you the best of luck in getting your acne under control.
Wow ASAT, me too!!! I’ll be 52 on the 8th of July, cool huh?
And I know EXACTLY what you describe as a teenager at swim parties. I grew up on Lake Washington, we had a dock and ski boats. We constantly had friends wanting to come over and water ski/swim all summer long. Back then I perpetually had some form of active acne on my face, back and chest, always worse in the summer. I grew my hair long to try and hide it, couldn’t wait to get my swimsuit cover up back on. I took tetracycline for years as a teen, but of course that makes you sun sensitive and I LOVE being outside.
I’ve tried every diet out there too and vegan was the absolute worst for me. The only way I’ve been able to control my acne is with Accutane or ton of vitamin A. I have lots of scars :-(
I think dairy may be a culprit too, especially pasteurized Holstein cow dairy. Yes, I’ve tested this and I do better on raw A2 dairy….but I’m not willing to admit that ALL dairy is out while I still have goat milk in ma fridge.
HAPPY BIRTHDAY (SOON) ASAT!!!
Hey Magic Maker! Yeah, that’s cool we share the same birthday! I’ve only ever met one other person who had the same birthday as me.
You mentioned goat dairy. I don’t recall ever having any issues with it.
I hope you have a happy birthday and can celebrate however you wish without any flare ups. Take care.
Carl Spackler,
More for your fiber question. http://highsteaks.com/fiber/#diagnosisdiet
Hi, AnnB:
Much appreciated. I look forward to reading it.
Thanks,
Carl
I wrote a lengthy reply with links to your question (repeat) but it has yet to reach us. If it doesn’t show up in a day or two, I’ll repeat the answer as best I can. For now perhaps this will suffice.
The multiple questions you asked however were answered with the one…meat has all we need.
The RDA is mythical collection of numbers based on the mythical calorie.
It is sometimes easier for people to think of the body as a car. Meat provides all the gas and parts we need to be active (move at various speeds forward and backwards and turn right or left) and for replacement as parts are worn out or damaged. The car only requests gas, oil, lube and parts as needed. It doesn’t need or want to store anything for later.
Plants are the wood and nails meant for building a house. We can try to use those for a car, but most end up stored in the trunk which only weighs it down (fat storage) and with some major restructuring we might be able to glean some type of fuel from the wood (alcohol-gas) and fashion some parts from the nails, but it’s only a patch job of sorts that can’t even be called a temporary fix. It’s deformed and damaged the original car/body.
The only return to normalcy is to stop trying to use wood and nails and go to the car’s sources of fuel and parts and begin restoring to original as much as possible. There may be scars that remain/can’t be sanded or buffed out, but hopefully they will only be external and won’t affect function.
If you really want to know more about this way of eating, go read the public posts at Zeroing In On Health group on Facebook. I don’t know if you can access the Files or Search the groups posts…or if it’s scroll through only.
Hi, AnnB:
Just a quick note to thank you for taking the time to entertain and respond to my questions. I’m sincerely grateful.
As for the lengthy reply you kindly submitted, I recently learned from Matt that if a post has a single link included in it, the post should appear without his needing to approve it. But, if there are two or more links, it will have to be approved by him – and, that might take a day or two. This has happened to me several times and perhaps that’s what’s holding-up your reply.
Whatever the case, again, I appreciate your time and attention. I spent a good bit of time last night (staying-up waaay too late) reading posts by Dr. Georgia Ede on her website and her articles on the Psychology Today website – as well as readers’ comments and her replies. Today, I’ve been reading more, as well as information on the http://JustMeat.co site.
My head is still spinning.
I now need to go back and read about Matt’s experiences and conclusions on the matter. This topic was quite unexpected and I wouldn’t have thought I’d spend much time on it. But, I’m glad you raised the issue.
Wishing you continued success and health.
Sincerely,
Carl
Matt — you probably saw the recent post (and the part of Grant’s P4P book) that talks about staple foods in Central America that are secretly “fortified” with retinyl palmitate. Am wondering if this could at least partly explain your observation of widespread obesity there? I think Grant says that one of the ways the body protects the organs and tissues from excess Vit A is to increase fat cells and store it in them.
Am also wondering if an individual’s Vit A stores determine how effective “Eat 4 Heat” will be for them?
I’m super happy to see that Matt and others here are reading about Genereux’s vitamin A toxicity theory. I knew that it was just a matter of getting people to start to read it because his research speaks for itself ? loudly and clearly and convincingly.
Also, Matt, I just posted a comment over on Grant’s blog (under the name “Frank” over there) that is relevant to your previous point about Central Americans being fat and the Alzheimers rates in Colombia. It’s about fortification of staple foods with retinol in Central / South America.
https://ggenereux.blog/2017/04/29/vitamin-a-oh-no-its-not/comment-page-1/#comment-264
Grant was already aware of it, but for me, it was pretty mind-blowing to read in detail about how in certain countries in Central America have mandated that sugar be fortified with retinyl palmitate.
So maybe the obesity culprit over there is not just liver or sweet potatoes or any natural foods, but some staple food that’s being fortified with retinol. So it might just be the same thing happening in West countries, just different foods being fortified.
Yeah I saw that comment Frank. I told my girlfriend about it as soon as I read it earlier today. I was all like, “I just read that they are putting vitamin A in the sugar in Central America, but they aren’t even telling anyone about it because they don’t want to encourage sugar consumption by making people think it’s good for them because of the vitamin A. Is that fucked up or what??!!!”
And yes, thanks for sharing.
Supposedly the high Alzheimer’s rate is isolated to just one region in Colombia, not the whole country, so that is interesting. I didn’t know about the sweet potatoes and liver. Like I said, all I saw there was rice, potatoes, chicken, sausage, beans, tortilla-like things called arepas, and absolute shitloads of empanadas.
I was surprised that Nicaragua wasn’t on the list of Vitamin A supplemented countries. I’d like to know more about what’s up there. It’s where I spent the most time (in Central America), and I felt noticeably worse there than I did in Colombia for sure.
Hi Matt,
Arepas are tasty. I love the corn and sweetness and cheese if memory serves me right.
(I eat corn and orange peppers everyday to prevent macula trouble later in life) July 2000 was the last time I indulged. The Miami Zoo sold them. I banged my head sooooooooooooo hard on the edge of this vendor’s cart. I remember that part like yesterday and seeing J.J. the male Silverback gorilla right in front of the glass. He was huge-chest the size like a T.V. volume that was aboit 35 imches across and one of his finger girth was two of ours.
I see Stephan Guyenet is bashing Gary Taubes again. (Pathetic)
Both Taubes and I trounce Guyenet intellectually. Stephan Guyenet is a low level, very , verylow tier researcher. Highest tier researcher, Dr. Jeffrey Friedman , calls himself simply “Jeff Friedman” during his lectures and talks. He doesn’t need the ” Dr.” part thrown in ir to sign his name and emphasize “M.D.” or “Ph.D”. (Top tier scientists do not emphasize academic titles)
I think it’s high time Guyenet stops bashing Taubes and actually contributes to society and does something for once. He has gotten nowhere with regard to understsnding obesity even remotely better over the last DECADE of blogging. I think it’s high time for Guyenet, Lyle McDonald and allthose “gurus” to stop misusing and abusing ohysics then banning people who correct them. They are happy to trout out physics and balatntky misuse it to support book sales despite being rhe MOST PHYSICS ILLITERATE bloggers around…… I think it’s high time for Guyenet et to start LEARNING WHAT IS ACTUALLY INVOLVED AND HAPPENING. NOBODY EATS FICTITIIUS CALORIES OR INVERSE FERMIONS OR ERGS etc. You cannot eat something with NO EXISTENCE WHATSIEVER. Energy is FICTITIOUS, UNITS ARE FICTITIOUS. ENERGY HAS NO EXISTENDE WHATSOEVER IN ITSELF, IT IS NOT ANYTHING…..
HUMANS EAT TO REPLENISH CARBON- CARBON, CARBON, CARBON. This has NOTHING to do with calories, joukes or inverse fermions or ANY OF THKSE INVENTED FICTIONS. C -A-R-B-O-N IS what peoole ingest, about 1.5 pounds a day requiring 17, 000 breaths to dispose of. Humans gain matter simply by breathing in oxygen atoms. Healthy people can handle and dispose of water, hydrogen and oxygen atoms. CARBON is what is hard to dispose of. SOME CARBON ATOMS BECOME OERMAMNENET, PERMAMNENT PARTS OF OUR BODY,
As a nuclear physicist told me we need to STOP thinking about calories and START THINKING ABIUT WHAT THE HELL IS ACTUALLY HAPPENING. He said it js FUNNY we talk of calories when that ks NIT THE CASE!
NAMELY, CARBON! THINK IN TERMS OF CARBON.BOTH FAT AND SUAGAR ARE RICH IN……. C A R B O N. CARBON IS REAL. CALORIES ARE TOTALLY MADE UP. Energy is a totally abstrac5 , totally fictitious characteristic we humans invented and assign to atoms.
Please tell Guyenet.
As a nuclear top tier physicist recently told me
Every single one of these calorie people are running a RACKET and conning guillible readers….. I get instantly banned from MyFitPal and other forums SIMPLY by asking “Do the laws or -principles of physics EVOLVE? I inquire why NOBODY asks this
Calories CANNOT DO SH@T OER ACT AT ALL- THEY DO NTO EVEN EXIST, NOR DOES ENERGY…..
( Only a number we comput for convenience)CARBON does. MATTER. STUFF.
Physics illiterate Colpo fololwers erroneous believe that this is a “nonsensical question.” It is NOT. FEYNMAN HISXMELF pondered this often and asked it and DISCUSSED with Fred Hoyle…. ONLY the physics ILLITERATE bloggers believe it is “nonsensical.”
PAUL DIRAC thought the laws of physics MAY VERY WELL EVOLVE. LEE SMOLIN of the Perimeter Institute ACTVELY researchers this very question
This should give you an idea of the state of intellect iof the Guyenet followers and their “leader”. iIf only the public KNEW how litle we know. We cannot get anywhere near the Planck length to PROBE Who kmnows what LURKS THERE…. So many DEEP questions nto even remotely understood- deep fundamental important quiestions.
Want to gain bodily matter and “weight”? WITHOUT ANY food at all?
Here is a trick. Simply breathe in and hold it. You breathed in all those oxygen atoms, adding more matter to your body making you heavier. NO FOOD NECESSARY.
Carbon atoms are in almost every molecule in your body.
Razzle Dazzle,
It looks like this lady has taken “Razwell’s Breathing Diet” (patent pending) very seriously!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xN_tU0S66ek
hahaha
Cheers,
Carl
This makes me wonder if that’s why people with sleep apnea tend to become obese. From what I’ve read the apnea comes first then the obesity. What about COPD? Sufferers can breathe in but have difficulty expelling the air. You’d think that might contribute to obesity in that population too.
Hi Carl, : )
ROTFLOL. That was good! hahaha @facial expressions. You are muuucch better than I am at finding these videos.LOL!
I never heard the CarbSane et al gurus ever mention how technically when we breathe in, we take in atoms, these oxygen atoms and others make us weigh more and add matter to our body(but it is sooo tiny a difference) And when we exhale we remove such a tiny amount. But over the day alllll those breaths in and out (plus exercise causes geavy fast breathing sustained-this is where we blow those atoms out our body, that matter being excreted.The human body is always exchanging matter with the environment-to and from. Humans are constantly in a state of ebb and flow. The Lyle et al dorks do not realize that if we ever actually achieved equilibrium we’d be dead. We are open, dissipative, far from equilibrium systems, all of life is. Life does amazing things. Recently, physicists think the laws that govern biology may be different than the princip,es that govern planets, ga,axies etc. Recently, we are revising and re-evaluating what we thought we k ew about Black Holes. Suler sized black holes are at the center of every galaxy (or most and not inky anchor galaxies, but also playa huge role in the formation. : )
Guyenet et al never think correctly-that is, in terms of atoms and the void. They reify energy. It (the loss of substance, bodily tissue of any sort-losing fat specifucally has a lot more intricacy) has always been about carbon atoms (matter, stuff, not energy or cakories or inverse fermions or ergs etc.)being physically excreted and removed like a rowdy drunk guy being excreted from a bar by a strong bouncer. LOL!
This ohysicist winders why nobody thinks in terms if carbon-carb8n atoms, carbon based life. Rsther, they wsffle in about this fictitious invention called calories.
Best tropical pakms,
Razzi
Matt, I wanted to ask you one more thing about the ultra-low fat diet which was previously discussed. I actually tried it for a few days, just to see how quickly it would work, and ended up losing 3 lbs in less than a week. I was eating around 3000 calories, of that probably less than 10grams of fat, and did not exercise. I felt fine on it but gave it a rest due to non dietary reasons.
I was wondering, have you seen anything to suggest that this approach wouldn’t be a universal and guaranteed one? If in the absence of dietary fat, the body must use its own fat stores, while metabolism is kept steady via calories (no deficits), then is there anything that would prevent fat loss from occurring? I really do wonder if this is the ‘holy-grail’ of fat loss.
From what I have read, the biggest obstacle to adherence is the blandness of the diet. But I think being able to eat as much as one needs to avoid hunger (so long as its mostly carbs or some protein) can make up for that.
I really want to see the end of the myth of the calorie cutting approach to weight loss. I wonder if this could be a new paradigm given enough high profile successes.
Well many of the low fat vegans sure think it is. But there are lots of reports on YouTube of people actually gaining quite a bit of fat only eating fruit (Andrew Perlot, High Carb Hannah, and many others). So there’s that. But I think those people were coming into the diet with a very low metabolic rate. Andrew Perlot, for example, had done extensive water fasting in the past and is a decades-long sufferer of Raynaud’s Syndrome.
What I’d like to see more of is how people respond to returning to a normal, mixed diet, and if that results in typical rebound weight gain. I think it’s WAY too early to make a call there. But keep toying around with it if you like and post your experiences with it in the short and long-term here. Would love to hear how it pans out for you.
Thanks for the reply, Matt. Yeah, that must be another possible factor in determining whether it is successful or not. My short but successful experience with the ultra-low fat that I mentioned only took place after an intense refeeding (around 3 months of extreme hunger (4000-5000 calories while sedentary), but the last two months have settled to reaching satiety around 3000. I think Zach also did his after a period of ad libitum refeeding. So I can see the individual’s initial slow metabolic rate possibly being a reason. However, maybe it is also the watery-ness of fruits that you have discussed before that prevented successful fat loss among the individuals you mentioned, and that a primarily starch based approach might have had a different result. I am not familiar with those Youtubers though.
As for the returning to normal mixed diet, that is also something to look into indeed. I remember Zach writing that he was able to go very high in fat after his ultra-low fat stint, and didn’t notice any fat gain.
Anyway, this topic reminds me of Denise Minger’s post on Kempner’s rice diet (“In Defense of Low Fat: A Call for Some Evolution of Thought”), which looked to be at least 2400 calories, of that, only 5 grams of fat. Not sure about the long term follow up, though those participants would have been an excellent source of whether there was some kind of adjustment to consuming a mixed diet.
I will let you know if I try the ultra-low fat approach again.
Didn’t know High Carb Hannah was gaining weight. I watched the video, she said her body dysmorphia led to binge eating episodes, and her diet during this time has been 30-40% fat with a lot of junk (Lianda is shaking her head I bet!)
So technically the weight gain wasn’t on low fat. She said she gets the best results on low fats, but if they’re too low she’ll feel ravenous.
Hi Skeptic- You are right! I am shaking my head! I just looked at the titles of her many youtube videos- wasn’t sure which one you referred to. Can you share the link?
But again I go back to: will you MAINTAIN weight loss after torturing yourself on those disgusting green shakes and eating “clean” stuff that you gag on? At some point you’re going to break down (under stress) and go for the things you miss the most.
I really believe that for a vast percentage of people, the thing that drives them to a diet is body dysmorphia. That feeling of hating your body can come from societal pressure to be thin, or abuse. It’s a hard thing to break – learning to even get to neutral about your body – and then eat anything you want for hunger, enjoying it without guilt, and then stopping when you’ve had enough.
I’m in the middle of reading a book called: “The Power of 8” by Lynne McTaggart. Although the concepts she puts forth can seem “woo-woo” it’s a thoroughly research process that shows great possibilities for healing. If you’re interested do read it!
I happen to know Dr. Gary Schwartz (who has designed and participated in the research) and know him to be a totally honest, reputable and a person of high integrity..
If you read it, and are interested, PM me.
just borrowed the book from my library- thanks for the recommendation!
Aren’t many of “…the things you miss the most” due to our artificial cravings, after eating processed junk for many years? Had we never eaten cookies, cakes, ice cream, and pies in the first place, we wouldn’t have any cravings for them. I’ve never eaten artichokes, so I sure don’t have a craving for them. Same goes for cantaloupes and eggplant.
Also, aren’t there consequences to eating “…anything you want for hunger and enjoying it without guilt…”? I’ve known people all my life who have done this — the ones that are still alive are mostly dealing with terrible health and suffering a variety of chronic illnesses.
I’m not suggesting the alternative is “…torturing yourself on … disgusting green shakes and eating ‘clean’ stuff that you gag on.” There is a lot of area between the two extremes.
As an aside, though I’m neither a vegetarian nor a vegan, I own a juicer and blender and can confirm that juices and smoothies need not taste like lawn trimmings. Even with two or three big handfuls of greens in a smoothie, for example, it takes very little fruit to add enough sweetness to mask the greens.
With that said, I’m about as sick of hearing about juicing and smoothies as I am hearing the words “toxins,” “toxic,” and “detox.”
Anyway, I believe the following video of High Carb Hannah is the one which my buddy Skeptic mentioned:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mD3HdztYyco
Based on your comment, I read a summary of Lynne McTaggart’s book “The Power of 8.”
“When individuals in a group focus their intention together on a single target, a powerful collective dynamic emerges that can heal longstanding conditions, mend fractured relationships, lower violence, and even rekindle life purpose. But the greatest untold truth of all is that group intention has a mirror effect, not only affecting the recipient but also reflecting back on the senders.”
Some years ago, I heard Wayne Dyer speak about groups using their focused attention to, allegedly, lower the incidence of crime in a city.
Once you finish the book, perhaps you can comment on what you thought about it.
I’ve been marveling for years over what some folks consider to be “food”.
Highly processed factory stuff loaded with artificial additives, metabolically suppressive and utterly addictive ingredients (which would never be found in nature) seems like an obvious problem.
However, at the other end of the spectrum, I personally find that eating lots of raw “natural healthy” food (think loads of leafy greens and fibrous plant material) is equally and HUGELY problematic.
I’m amazed by the fruitarians/vegans that can shovel in LOADS of fiber, mountains of legumes, 30 bananas a day, liters of date shakes and green smoothies.
Or how about Terry Wahls and her NINE cups of leafy greens per day to cure MS (or any other autoimmune disease)??? How are these peeps NOT bloated and chained to the bathroom all day?
And I’m equally baffled as to why lots of humans don’t instinctively know what to eat.
As a species, it’s obvious to me that we can thrive on a very wide variety of foods. Intellectually I understand that there is NO SUCH THING as One Perfect Diet for all humans.
So why do I keep looking for it?
Yup it’s the one Carl posted. I’ll check out that book. Been reading/watching a lot of intuitive eating stuff lately
Great comments, Magic Maker.
I suppose I shouldn’t be surprised that many of us think along similar lines. I guess that’s how/why we all arrived at this blog.
Like you, I’m amazed by the types and volumes of foods the fruitarians and vegans can ingest. I mean, I’ve read that our stomachs are about the size of our two, closed fists. Of course, our stomachs also stretch — to a point. But, watching a skinny girl like Freelee drink a 10-banana smoothie (with added coconut sugar) for breakfast makes me wonder where it’s going.
It also seems kinda ridiculous, in my opinion, to add sugar to any meal. I’d imagine that 10 bananas would already be rather sweet:
1 Medium Banana: 105 calories + 14 grams of sugar
So, multiply that by 10, just for her breakfast:
Calories: 1,050
Sugar: 140 grams
Plus, the coconut sugar she added. In the YouTube video I just looked-up, she was just shaking it out of the bag, so I can’t be sure of how much she added. But, it easily looked to be at least three tablespoons. That’s nine teaspoons and another 36 grams of sugar. So, that’s 176 grams of sugar for one sitting. She also ate half a watermelon, though I’m not sure of the time in-between the two meals.
As for Terry Wahls and her nine cups of vegetables per day, I found this post to be somewhat amusing.
https://www.younghealthandfitness.com/nine-cups-vegetables
One of the things she didn’t expect: Getting tired of chewing! Then, her husband bought her a Vitamix blender.
Whether chewing or using a Vitamix, if one isn’t used to regularly consuming a lot of fibrous plant material, I think it makes sense to start small and slowly increase over a period of time. Generally, I think our creaky digestive machinery will engage and rise to the occasion. It just might take some time.
Finally, I’m also amused/perplexed by the inability of humans to know what to instinctively eat. Our species, obviously, had this ability, at some point. But, then came the “intellectual interference” that Matt has written about.
Due to the individuality of people, their gut bacteria, genetics, health, region where they live, the climate, and season, I agree there’s likely no One Perfect Diet for all humans.
p.s. I see that C.J. Hunt’s 2012 film “The Perfect Human Diet” has a sequel in the making. It’s titled “The Perfect Human Diet 2: Dispelling The Lies.” Finally, someone will reveal THE truth. hahaha, right.
Terry Wahls forgets to mention that she also received bleeding edge stem cell therapy that is likely 100% responsible for her recovery.
skeptic – THANK you for mentioning that about Terry Wahls… I just keep thinking about what those amazing 9 cups of veggies/day can do – and, I didn’t know that about the STEM CELL THERAPY.
I never understood why in the world people track “calories” (no different than othwr fictitious inventions, ergs, inverse fermions), a totally fictitious invention, basically nothing whatsoever.
If you are going to track something, track carbon atoms, (track carbon grams)the grams of carbon you ingest (absorption is another issue) There are WAYS to do this (fairly accurately) that I could elaborate on from my nuclear physicist contact, if you wish , Matt and everybody.
Forget calories, they do NOT count , nor can this fiction act on your body.
. CARBON is what ACTUALLY COUNTS. I should blog and write an article called Carb8n Counts. Marion Nestle is a FOOL and cannot grasp this.
Guyenet is WRONG, WRONG, WRONG. I know this for a fact. The physicists know it. That dude needs to be confronted pronto!
I cannot with to see the expression on Colpo’s, Hale’s, McDonald’s, Guyenet’s Nikoley’s and CarbSane’s FACES when they learn they have been doing it alllll wrong for years.
Guyenet POMPOUSLY dismisses Taubes and me (Guyenet does not want his readers knowing he is largely full of poo). Well, my nuclear physicist contact dismisses Guyenet! The public should KNOW!
Matt,
I am a long time low fat extremely high carber. I never count calories and eat whenever I am hungry. I just read 3 of your books and am tempted to add in extra fat. Injabe hashimot’s and always have trouble with my temps. In this case would upping T 3 be better than refeeding? I love what I eat but low fat can be hard to maintain in social situations.
I’m going to be writing some stuff about autoimmune disease soon, which I think you will find very interesting Gina.
That’s great, Matt.
The immune system plays a MAJOR role in obesity.(40 % involved in our body fatness) Dr. Donal OxShea is cutting edge. Unlike Guyenet, he is competent. i have personally seen a handful of friends , collesgues, relatives who all developed autoimmune diseases and had their fatness levels rafically changed and altered. Sime got quite fwt, some got rail skinny. These people all said no change at all in anything else. Guyenet is totally silent sbout this. You are far smarter and a better writer with more relevant, cutting edge type info. McDonald and Guyenet are not even remotely cutting edgd. They are the biggest flounderers I gave ever seen-Z E R O progress in a deacade of defending okd, debunked dogmatic ideas and all their efforts went towards bashing Taubes. They have BALLS!
Thanks, Matt. I have tried every diet imaginable, stress management, yoga etc. It could be that there is no answer and I just need to give up trying to find any relief.
I’ll be looking for your post.
Give this a read and see if any of it applies. Because of comments in this thread, I discovered Zero Carb/no plants diet…meat and water. Can’t say I love it, but I like it enough to continue. Cravings gone, no raging hunger every 2 hours, no bloating, no gas/farting, no craziness to create three ‘balanced’ meals a day…plus snacks, because meals weren’t enough. High blood pressure…gone. Temps staying up in normal high range without thyroid or any supplements. Excess fat loss is a breeze, edema I could not get rid of (it was getting scary)…gone. If I had a time lapse camera I could see how my body is changing daily from a lumpy 100 pounds overweight old lady to having a shape even with 80 pounds more to go. My pants fit better (down a size) than the last time I wore them when this weight/size. I can’t remember the weight I was exactly…it’s been a few years, but it almost seems I weighed less and was fluffier. No matter.
http://meatheals.com/2018/02/04/charlene-andersen/
AnnB-
It sounds like a boring, and torturous diet, and a way to lose a lot of friends because you can’t go out to eat with them.
The issue is not whether you can lose weight, but how long you can MAINTAIN the weight loss, and not rebound higher than where you started!
When I first hear Matt speak on the Paleo Summit about 7 years ago, I was on the Paleo diet and suffering from gastritis from all the meat. When I quit Paleo, it took quite a while to get over that pain! I couldn’t eat ANYTHING for about 5 days until my system rested and the pain stopped.
I have Hashimoto’s- went through gluten-free for a year with no weight change, and no other changes as well. I have totally given up dieting of any kind and eat what I want, when I’m hungry. I’m not stressing about my body, because there a lot more things in life to worry about! And believe me, eating like I do now is a lot more enjoyable than just eating meat and water – especially when there is not guarantee that you’re going to maintain the weight loss-
Nonetheless, I wish you luck, and do check in and let us know how you’re doing….
Paleo was a real fiasco. What a con job.
Nikoley, Colpo, Guyenet and Sisson were alllllll pimping it. Gorging on meat. (Nikokey was badhing Mayo Ckinic dieticians around late 2008 or so for the SAME view he has CURRENTLY… LAUGHABLE! His forgotten STILL is up for all to see (indicting him , proving his fraud) (Guyenet was a low carber, too, Paleo promoter in 2008) but nobody calls tgem out. These gurus are alll a pack of con artist money grubbers. I DESPISE THEM. ALL my info always was free and honest.
Urgelt was honest. He is also way smarter than the aforementioned clowns.
Make no mistake, these a-holes saw that they could not compete with low carbers like Gary Taubes so they did the irrational extreme high carb fest. (Extreme high carb stresses pancreas and a super sugary style of eating is a risk for pancreatic cancer
Everyone but Sisson has done a 180 degree turnaround, all around tge same time. Those gurus are so disingenuous is sickens me. Thousands of readers were conned.
Here is a great article: “Scientific Ideas Ready For Retirement” By Dr. Lawrence Krauss. That man is 100 times smarter than the Taubes bashing crew led by Krieger, CarbSane. I am not even remotely impressed by the intellects of Colpo, Guyenet, Krieger and the usual suspects.
Reading that article from a real expert will show readers how charlatans abuse physics -Lyle McDonald and his buddies.
Take Urgelt’s (YouTube)advice: AND As the iconic astrophysicist, Lord Martin Rees notes , too)
@@@@ Current knowledge about diet is so, so , so poor. Scientists hardly even have a clue how nutrients affect cells.@@@@
(“The experiments are always inaccurate”-Feynman
Then we have the much more important issues:
Genetics
Immune System
How the body has a mind of its own
All we have are humans, people trying to figure phenomena out using hubdreds of methods. “The Scientific Method” is a gradeschool myth) That poster was bull and not at all how any of rge importantbinfo we know was found out. It is a white lie we tell kids
Our science is NOT a follow some protocol recipe and achieve results. And problems , major blocks, even impassible barriers could eadily arise. Rees notes that last one! I think popularizers (Hokey Neil Tyson)glorify it too much. Rees ssys we shoukd tame the optimism. Einstein felt we humans will never have access to seeing the lion’s full body-just the tail….
There are 1440 minutes in a day. How many times do you guys exhale in one minue? Mine is 20 exhalations a minute. 28,800 exhalations a day for me. Figuring out how much carbon we ingest a day is possible to a fairly accurate degree.
I calculated that I exhale 28, 800 times 1,440 minutes in a day and I exhale 20 times a minute
FORGET CALORIES, THEY ARE NOT RELEVANT. NEVER WERE.NOR are calories what is actually happening. THE AMOUNT OF CARBON PROCESSED (how it’s handled) IS A BIG FACTOR
Whenever you see the word “calorie” immediately REPLACE-SUBSTITUTE it with “ergs” or “inverse fermions” (your choice)
IN REALITY, you are stoking your metabolism with various nutrients plus CARBON (nitrogen, hydrogen, oxygen too but carbon is what you must focus on) (NOT calories-they are totally fictitious. Remember, calories cannot act or do ANYTHING to a human body. Energy and its units are useful fiction, they do not act. You cannot do damage to cells with “energy”, nor can you make an energy beam….. Can you make a “spindly beam”? See?
There is no difference whatsoever between these fictitious inventions. There is nothing inherently intrinsic to food as calories , nothing nebulous hiding out in food called calories. They are F-I-C-T-I-O-N. You know the situation is bad when Marion Nestle, Linda Bacon and even Dr. Levine cannot grasp this. We have scores of researchers totally MISUNDERSTANDING energy.
Matter (stuff) and energy (a made up human bookeeping/fiction , a number we can compute)
Food is matter, atoms. We humans assign a number to it called “energy” (energy was invented by people, it is not a component of thevuniverse, nature) Energy is N-O-T some kind of extra stuff in food. Energy. Is. Not. ANYTHING.
Think of nature or the universe as atoms and the void. That is what Sean Carroll stresses.
@ I have communicated with very top level physicists for so long now and I WILL debate and HEREBY challenge Stephan Guyenet, James Krieger , Lyle McDonald, Anthony Colpo, Jamie Hale, Richard Nikoley publicly about this. These FRAUDS (and they are physics illiterate book selling frauds) to stop REIFYING energy and its various equally fictitious units and stop lying to the public that a totally made up fiction, energy, can act-It CAN’T. Can spindly act on you? Obviously, no. (We have farrrrr too many units, we should use one common units, as Richard Feynman noted).
Razwell,
Do you have a blog? you have a plethora of info and knowledge and with a blog following, you could reach many people…. just a thought…..
Thanks, bg. : -)
Back in October 2010 I did. It ran until very early 2012. I appreciate your complimemt but I was fighting Lyle et al, . Maybe I will. But I will think about it. My biggest audience back then was about 700 people all (at the same time from varoius nations). (one winter afternoon) I habe no clue if that is bad or good.hahahah. Matt has the blogging thing down well, plus he is muxh better at computers thsn I am.
Matt (Stone) was one of the only person who supported by endeavor (Nikoley was dicky). October 2010 is when I first met Matt.
Thanks, again.
Take care,
Razz
I finally found this video again. I saw it a couple of years ago, but couldn’t remember the title.
The Mathematics of Weight Loss
https://youtu.be/vuIlsN32WaE't=9m39s
The guy in the video says “…the carbon atoms I ate…” and “…those atoms have mass…”
He must have read your posts!
LOL Carl. hahahaha!!!!!
Regarding substitution : My point is that you will see how ridiculous it is to say ergs kept my metabolism going, inverse fermions caused me to gain fat. No, Lyle McDonald et al , CARBON caused you to gain bodily tissue….. (and extremely complicated biochemical reactions with other atoms)
Your body tracks this stuff involuntsrily largely. However, if you wsnt to amuse yourself, track your carbon grams (carbon atoms), caliries don’t mean a DAMN THING, C-A-R-B-O-N DOES. YOU NEVER HAVE TO INOW how many calories or ergs you deal with…. CARBON GRAMS is what to know.
Tell Guyenet this. He cannot refute what top nuclear physicists point out! He is not smart enough. Lyle’s audience thinks he is a god….. He is poo for brains con artist making use of Internet technology
I’ve been watching this debate since the post was first created, reading every comment, knowing I had a little secret. Now that I see the debate has turned to carbon/breathing, I feel compelled to share, but I’m not sure if this will get through the mods (I’m not putting in my email address. I dont wish this posting to come back and bite me on the ass, since this is “crazy talk”). I hope it will make it through. I have searched the internet extensively for any mention of this and can find nothing. ->>> I have somehow come to the point where I can manipulate and break up my own fat with my fingers, and when I do this, especially in my belly, my respirations increase to one a second-ish. I sometimes spend an hour or two in this state. I can’t consciously make it happen, but I can consciously stop it, although it takes a few minutes of calming myself and deep breathing, and sometimes it sneaks back up on me if I dont stay calm. I am losing fat/weight despite eating my weight in my favorite foods, and my current theory is I am breaking it up and breathing it out in a way no one has ever discussed or dreamed of. I can even taste it, a thick, fatty taate in my mouth that sneaks up on me with the increased respirations, like I just ate a fatty piece of steak. But really it’s my own fat, pushed into my entire system , including my saliva, by some unkown mechanism.thats my working theory.
Me-
It sounds like you are breaking up the fascia – and perhaps by doing this, you are having an effect on the fat that was under it?
I have no idea why this would result in a changed breathing pattern – but Buteyko breathing would encourage you to slow down your respirations – that being healthy. I’ve gotten to a point where I am inhaling 3 times per minute through training.
As far as being judged by others- let it go! Whatever anyone says is not about YOU- it’s about them! Thanks for sharing!
Matt, can you please change the name of your website to 1080 degree health? I think it would be more apt based on all the recent comments on the different diets that people are having success doing.
Yes Rosenfelt, I’ll get right on that! haha
I, Razwell, can say for 100 % sure that the following gurus ( rather, con artists) CarbSane, Nikoley, Colpo, Hale, Krieger, James Fell and Stephan Guyenet are running a racket and MISREPRESENTING physics to lay readers.And I want EVERYBODY t KNOW that the elite physicists I have talked to do NOT support, NOR hold the view of Guyenet et al. , NOR the hokey science popularizers and bloggers like Amanda Meade etc. or Science Based Medicine ( a JOKE, just a pack of doctors trying to make a profit0) .
Real physicsts, UNLIKE the popularizer dorks, are not out there glorifying science and spreading myths.They have a healthful attitude.
One of these myths is that we will continue to make progress. NOT NECESSARILY…. IMPASSIBLE BARRIERS MAY, MAY come up. Nor is progress linear , NOR fast, and as mentioned, we may hit the LIMIT. I know the smartest people on Earth feel Nature will always have one more on us. Peopee such as Edward Witten ( a modern day Einstein and he thinks consciousness will REMAIN MYSTERY from all I have read in articles from interviews), Richard Fyenman,Roger Penrose, Dyson, Albert Einstein ALL felt we will never SEE THE LION’S BODY only the tail.
I have a healthy respect for all of the fields of science – BUT I realize it is a a highly fallible human invention. We have SO much more physics to learn that it is MIND BOGGLING, past assumptions may INDEED be wriong.
All science really is is a bunch of humans- PEOPEL doing “detective work as Sean Carroll gave thuis analogy.NOBODY knows the ORIGIN of the universe, as Weinberg stated. Despite Sagan’s pompous obnoxiousness- ACCOMPLISHED scientists do nto spread his nonsense.
From my dealings with Murray Gell-Mann, Lev Okun etc. I think the public would be shocked and horrified to learn just how LITTLE and extremely unsure even elite physicists know about the most important “most fundamental ” questions.It’s startling and in very recent years physcists have come to realize fundamental laws MAY NOT EVEN EXIST. Dr. Lawrence M. Krauss has writen a lot about this at the Edge under the title ” What Scientiic Ideas Are Ready For Retirement- That The Laws Of Physics Are Predetermined” We have a lot of evidence they are not. In fact, many have called off theior search for this. Physics may be just another environmental/historical science and this is disappointing to many physicists.
The human intekllect simply may not be able to acess the deepest nature of Nature. Just as calculus is far beyond the brains of any non-human primates, fully understanding the universe or multiverse may indeed be WELL beyond our brains. Optimism must be tamed according to Royal Society astrophysicist, Martin Rees.
The “laws of physics” may EVOLVE and be nothing special, just an accident. The most fundamental laws simply may not even exist. The Multiverse will change everything and each universe cuold have its own laws or principles. The Big Bang likelt happened but no elite physcists thinks it is the start of everything. ( Penrose and Guth are very vocal about this). Itis one possibility but we have MUCH better models than the Biug Bangtheory( a theory that we have very little experience with as conditions were so hot, a theory NOT to be trusted as Sean Carroll notes) Alan Guth’s and Alexi Starobinski’s inflationary models are far better models thus far.
For more information you can hear Alan Guth talking on video at “New England Physics Misconceptions”. Guth EVEN addresses the ENERGY topic ( that “Dr.” Hall and “Dr.” Guyenet abuse/misuse) where he STRESSES it is a totally abstract charcteristic .
The hokey science popularizers really confused the public- Neil Tyson, Sagan, Coxx. I could not believe Sagan and Tyson thought Eo=mc2 means that it is a recipe for converting matter into energy and vice versa. NO. NO. NO !!!!!!! Not even remotely Lev Okun would have verbally torn Sagan a new bunghole. I am glad Sagan was denied tenure at Harvard for being a self promoting, overstating pompous jerk, a bit of a swindler himself.
I don;t know if Matt ever wrote about magnesium and its importance but I highly recommned ( sans kidney problems) that you take a supplement. ONE thing Colpo wrote about in 2007 that was true is that magnesium is of utmost importance, it helps the vessels. Dr. Sinatra , the cardiologist is in strong favopr iof it. If I see soemthing right, I always give credit even if I dislike the person personally.
i would also recommend maitaining flexibility ( Jordan was asked once what the biggest factor was in his ability to p[lay pro basketball at the ripe old athletic age of 40. His response? Workign on his felxibility, the most underrepresented factor that people neglect. Your flexibility is correlated to your arterial and veseel pliability. Lifting is awesome but tem,porarily stiffens- so I walk 20 munites after every time I lift. Liftign is so important for so many reason BUT there is a dark side- that dark side is potential stiffening ( less give as when we were younger- a 10 year old’s arteries are so “pliable’ said several scientists examing this issue) ) of arteries.
I keep lifting to a minumum- hard, heavy , brief then rest a long time. I devote much effort to flexibility and maintainig fast twitch fibers.
So magnesium is a good choice, just don;t overdose and only take it if you are free from underlying specirfic issues.
Hopefully this helps.
P.S.
*Why does “the arrow of time” flow forwardly rather than backward – We do not know.
* What exists at the heart of a super massive Black Hole? We have nooo clue.
*What kind of physcis exists at or near the Planck length – we do not know
* Biology: How do nutrients affect cellular operations ( the detail) We have very litle info
*What is the origin of the universe- we do not know
*Are there truly fundamnetal laws that exist- we do not know
* Is TIME fuindamental and everything else arises from it and evolves inside of time>
Do the laws odf physics evolve IN time? ( We do not know but it is a possibility) ( Feynman suggsted they could , so did Dirac
*What came first quantum fields ( that they existed beofre the universe) or did these underlying quantum fields arise out of – FROM whatever the moment of it all was, the moment of creation. ( We do not know!!!!
Keep in mind I am NOT talking BIg Bang here as that was an event , yes, but likley not the creation of it all the universe or multiver etc. Some speculate ( and have some evdience) that what we call the Big Bang was actually an explosion from a HUGE Bkacl Hole and that we are living IN Black Hole possibly. The data surprisngly matches fairly well, it may not vbe likely even but a possibility.
Hi Razell-
If there was a fire in my house, I’d run back in for my magnesium (malate!) LOL
Hi Matt,
Carl may like this comparison :)
Recently, a certain celebriy came up that I remembered and was talking about my my brothers, talking about these old school songs.
I think you resemble a young….. Ready? Scroll down. You just might laugh your a@@ off.
Ricky Martin. ROTFLOL!. LOL! From his days of like 18 or 19. In certain pictures, I laugh out loud. I see a resemblence, especially in the picture you use on your site.
Ricky Martin? hahaha Yeah, I can see that!
http://img2-1.timeinc.net/people/i/2010/news/100412/ricky-martin-240.jpg
Thankfully, Matt’s no longer Livin’ La Vida Low Carb!
Awesome. Me, too, Lida. I am glad you use the type that is better absorbed, that’s smart.
LOL Carl. I think the super young pictures when Ricky had quite long hair to his shoulders almost look a lot like Matt, especially circa 2008 to 2010. It’s funny. But if one had to look like a celeb Martin woukd be a good choice. I just laugh because everytime I logged on and see that picture, I see resemblence to late 80xs early 1990xs long hair Ricky Martin and even your pic from 1999ish.
I had 2 pancakes today full of inverse fermions. LOL!
I just saw some comments at a certain person’s Twitter and soon to be a blog article… More physics misudnerstanding , mis application/misrepresentation to his UNSUSPECTING audience.
If Stephan Guyenet “Ph.D.” were even remotely a COMPETENT researcher, he would already know that it is “extremely difficult to damn near impossible ” ( Friedman) to fatten up those with thin genes ( thin genes do exist, Friedman may know the names)- those who are extremely skinny naturally, by overfeeding them. The first alw of themrodynamcis ABUSED/MISUSED OUT OF C ONTEXT AGAIN by Guyenet in his reply.. This is a JOKEK he should be EMBARRASSED at this pont…
The first law ( it’s not a law, it is a human best guess based on observations- deepest fundamental laws MAY NOT even exist likley- it is lookign that way….) ( NOR does the universe “HAVE” to flollow the conservation of energy= expanding universe does NOT- Nature is not under ANY obligation to follow or obey OUR human best gvuesses) The first law of thermodynamics does NOT CARE if you ate a chocolate bar and pooped it out WHOLE. HUMANS WASTE A LOT of what we EAT. ANY physcist knows this. Thin people are great at WASTING. How FOOD IS HANDLED is NOT governed by the conservation of energy. In fact, conservation of enerfgy is NOT a mechanism, as Guyenet THINKS- he thinks it causes things to happen ROFLOL !!!!!- FEYNAMN SAID THIS1!!!!!!!! Tuwsbes handed GUyenet huis butt about themrodynamcis a looong time ago. Taubes is SMART ENOUGH to understand the conservartion of energy is NOT ANY mechanism. It is “violoated’ in several situiations in Gener Relativity and gets squirelly
Overfeeding thin people and them failing to ain muscle or fat is NOT a violation, as GUyenet thinks…… Honeslt, what a TOOL…. I have witnessed over 10 years the constant misuse of the conservation of energy principle to support BACKWARDS OURTDATED obesity views.
COULD a skinny person gain from overeating? Is it POSSIBLE? Yes. Is ti also possible their bodies handle diffrrently and they are resisant. YES. The people I am talkign about may be OUTLIERS but it is EXTREMELY difficult to fatten them. BUT THEY DO NOT HAVE to, various scenarios could happen. FAT GAIN IS BIOLOGICAL There are conditions where people cannot ever gain FAT specifically. Some DEFECT. There si a MEDICAL CONDITION, BIOLOGICAL that BLOCKS your body from storing fat. The RETARDSD like GUyenet et al would have the lay public BELIEVE this contradicts conservation fo energy. NO, NO, NO ti DOESN;T. IT CAN AND DOES HAPPEN It is a DOCUMENTED BIOLOGICAL PHENOMENON. Moreover, copsnervation of energy is OUR say so, Nature can do WHATEVER it wants to. it just so happens in everyday life, this principle is holding. Not on a cosmic scale- the rapidlty expanding universe is creating space- this number , energy, is not conserved there. Physics is NOT FIAT and should NOT be taught or represenetd as FIAT- as Dr Krauss notes on camera
IN FACT, Dr. Jeffreuy Friedman of Rockwefeller University ( on the team that discovwered leptin) has noted MANY times ON CAMERA IN LECTURES that fattening up a naturally super skinny person is EVEN HARDER ( damn near impossible in some cases) than making a super obese person lose signficant fat….. And the latter is supremely difficult.
Some of the TOP , TOP experts on themrodynamcis like Dr Gavin Crooks have stated obesity is BIOLOGICAL ISUE NOT- NOT themrodynamcis one….. Tell Guyeent et al to put that in their pipes and SMOKE IT! God, i cannot stand reading that fools blog or Twitter. Just pure stupidity and phsyics abuse. ALL to spite Gary Tauebs a man FAR msarter than GUyenertor HALL ever dreamed of being.
Narture and its phenomena are in charge not us. Physics is wjhat WE say, NOT Nature , as Neils Bohr was found of saying. Lastly, IF intelligent life is out there and it i very likely is- they MAY have very different models of the universe like Brian Green and Krauss were debating with Neil Tyson ( Tyson is another buffoon- Weinberg is so much more accomplished and knowledgable)
The name of the condition where a person eats round the clock and cannot gain or store bodily fat tissue is called “Velasquez Syndrome”. This condition is even more extreme than that of naturally very lean people Lizzie Velasquez was bullied, I was sorry to hear that. Lizzie has no fat. Ans nothign she does can remedy it.
I can just imagine Lyle and Guyenet in TOTAL DENIAL , in the background yelling , “But, but , but….wait… impossible…. ” teh thermodynamicz” though!!!!!. That argument sickens me to the core. It is pure uneducated a@@holery…..Lyle McDonald is the most guilty party ever of it ( absuing and ttoally misusing the conservation of energy to blame fat people) . MIT scientists dislike this, the ones I communicated with, such as Dr. Pine.
Funny how actual world class ( Dr. Gavin Crooks , a cutting edge LEADER)pioneering experts in the field of thermodynamics do not at all support Lyle’s , Hall’s or Guyenet’s stance. These world class scientists understand obesity is understood under an exceedingly complicated biochemical framework.
Urgelt has said for a long, long time that those “gurus’ are a pack of con artists abusing physics. Urgelt even noted Lyle has NOT at all refuted Gary Taubes by a county mile. Read the comment section of his “Prejudice And Obesity ” YouTube video. Great information.
NO, Lyle et al BIOLOGY. We cannot and do NOT infer the behavior and or regulation/dysregulation/defects of mammalian cells from some conservation of energy physics principle……. As scientist, Peter Hoffman, author of “Life’s Rachet” ( recommended to me by MIT physicists) notes how YOUR body HANDLES, partitions and processes food is super complex, highly individualized and deals with GENETICS and other complex factors. Fat tissue creation is a deliberate, biologically REGULATED, NOT PASSIVE, process. There is ACTIVE participation and decision making done by your own body on what IT deems should be sent to muscles , used for fuel or stored as fat. Partitioning of food is a CENTRAL ISSUE and even Guyenet- back when he was somewhat sane- in 2010, realized it. Then we have the sisue of obese people who are NOT overeating, as in severe obesity in destitute poverty observations. A whole other issue never discussed by Guyeent et al, just IGNORED simply because the person bringing it up is named Taubes. i think CarbSane actually has a crush on Gary Taubes and I think Colpo, Guyenet, Hall and mcDonald are SEETHING WITH JEALOUSY. Their tiny intellects are not Taubes’ fault.
Huh never heard of Velasquez syndrome before. Maybe they can use this knowledge to turn off these stupid goddamn fat storing genes in future humans
I sure hope so , Skeptic. I hope the obesity researchers, the good ones, really study this syndrome. There are so many potentially productive areas to delve into. Reggie Miller of the NBA , although he does not have this syndrome, he is naturally skinny, and to this day, looks like he could play.
Arnold Schwarzeneggar’s son, Joseph Baena, has GREAT genetics and GREAT bodybuilding potential. Genetics are HUGE. We all cannot look like Usian Bolt or Arnold.Genetic and HORMONES matter. DRUGS. LOOK at VITALY ( he is the obnoxious YouTube prnakster- this duide loosk RADICALLY different from 2011- Vitaly is openly on steroids. Krieger should take note- DRUGS, HORMONES MATTER A LOT A LOT!
But those blessed with the genetics will do well. Plus, it is well known these bodybuilders use drugs but still, even as a natural , Arnie;s son would show great promise. Just shows the importance of genetics. Some of us are ectomorphs, some mesomorphs some endomorphs. Fat bodies exist, aprt of Nature. I dislike Lebrion James and think he is a lower tier skill level. I think Hakeem Kobe and Michael Jordan are FAR ahead of james skill wise- not even close- but LeBron does have a lot of natural muscularity. Though I suspect drugs. Look at jaw brow thickening ( skull compared to when he was a 19 year old kid. leBronj ios never seriouosly injured either. I remember Jesse Marunde told me in an e-mail that LeBron was at a conference he was at about 4 feet away and he just had incredible natural; muscularity , a real gift. But t puzzles me- leBron is very flat footed, hammer toes and walks like a duck. He is athelticv but I still say Bo, Deoin , Jordan were more so. Jordan was strcitly basketball atheltic, yes, LeBron could do more- like football tight end,.
In the movei Conan Arnold is at his best. But Chamberlain is in that movioe and you can tell he was a vastly superior ATHLETE to Arnold, quite strong and had defined m,usclrity himself. I just learned that today that he was in that with Arnold LOL !!!!!
Matt I just had this thought: we talk about how if you eat a deficit, your body freaks out and fights back. But if say you’re supposed to eat 3000 calories and you only eat 2500, the other 500 will come from your fat stores right? So in a way, there was NO deficit, and you had enough energy to cover all your needs. So then why the metabolic slowdown? Maybe it’s all about diminishing fat stores? Just a thought.
I’m not Matt, but thought I’d chime in anyway…It’s been my experience that the closer I got to my goal weight the slower and more difficult the fat loss. The last ten or fifteen pounds are DAMN near impossible to lose. WHY?
Yes, diminishing fat stores so the body starts to fight back.
But I’ve also wondered if the final chunk of body fat is somehow more toxic than when I was swimming around in an extra 80 pounds of adipose.
Is this tissue so saturated with PUFA or vitamin A or heavy metals that the body regards it as a metabolic burden? Perhaps the body refuses to burn through it out of self protection?
I’m just making sh*t up here…
I think you’re onto something, Magic Maker. I’ve heard others support this theory, too.
In Googling the matter, I found this:
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3569688
Also, if you go to the “Google Books” website, search for the following two books:
* The Detox Book by Bruce Fife
* You’re Not Fat, You’re Full of “IT” by David Ryals
You can read previews of them and search each book for keywords like “fat” and “toxin” to see relevant areas.
I’d link them here, but more than one URL in a comment flags it for moderation by Matt. I try not to bug him with such trivial matters.
Hi Carl,
Thanks for the links. Maybe that’s why the low fat vegans keep pushing green smoothies to detox….but since I simply cannot tolerate eating that much whole plant food (even iffin it’s properly Vitamixed) on a daily basis. It’s not an option for me, gawd knows I’ve tried.
Besides, those peeps are ingesting a ton of carotenoids and raw goitrogens, I can’t go there even if I wanted to due to Hashimoto’s.
Pondering infrared saunas now.
And I’m STILL intrigued by the carnivores.
Magic, I think a mostly animal product diet is a very successful diet for anyone with auto immune including hashimotos. Keeping in simple sugars but avoiding anything that feeds bacteria (starch and fiber) might work well. Meat and saturated fats are the building blocks for humans, sugar is the fuel. It’s best to get the easiest things to digest. Fuck the green juices and all that other toxic shit vegans push as health elixirs. The only vegans I see who seem healthy are living tropical and eating mainly fruit or on the rice and bean diet. Vegetables l, nuts, seeds, grains are all a net negative in big quantities imo.
I don’t understand this “don’t feed your gut bacteria” argument. They don’t cause autoimmune disease, and they’re essential to your health. Also, you have many different types, including some that feed on protein and fat (bacteroides), so you always are feeding bacteria, no matter your diet. Also, when you starve the fiber loving bacteria of fiber, they start feeding on your protective mucus lining itself!
Just sounds like a bunch of broscience to me.
Skeptic, do you have anything that backs up the claim that they start feeding on your lining when starved? That sounds like broscience.
Bacteria are absolutely the cause of auto immune disease. Many different doctors and researchers have already connected these dots and that is why a zero starch diet and antibiotic protocols work so well for things like rheumatoid arthritis, anklosing spondylitis and other forms of auto immune arthritic conditions. The person suffering from and AI disease without question will be suffering from a disbiosis, klebseila being one such gram negative bacterium that has been identified in certain RA conditions. Their favorite food? Starch. There are studies showing that simply reducing starch intake drastically lowers klebseila populations in the gut in a matter of hours. The gut biome is very dynamic and adjusts daily to what it’s being fed or not fed. A person feeding on almost exclusively meat will have a drastically different biome with very reduced populations over all. While there are certain bacteria that feed on protein, animal products are so completely absorbed in the small intestines by enzymes that here is little to no residue in the gut to feed one. Bacteria are not strong, they die within hours of not being fed. In a few weeks of going zero starch or fiber, overall numbers will be greatly reduced.
The mechanisms in which bacteria cause AI disease and other infectious diseases is by getting where they don’t belong. Usually because of excessive fiber, pufa and other toxins causing tiny perforations in the bowel (leaky gut) and allowing the bacteria to enter the bloodstream. The body will fight this but if it happens for long enough, people will get systemic inflammation (AI). If the bacteria happen to get into joints, cns or other areas those places will become inflamed as well causing arthritic or inflammatory diseases (all disease). This is my belief after heavily researching bacteria and disease. Vitamin A is compelling as well and another inflammatory medium like pufa. Bacteria with out a doubt a big players in disease and why Ray Peat is so for having a sterile gut.
As far as how Vitamin A factors in, I think Grant would say that it’s not the bacteria that get into places it doesn’t belong, but it’s the bacteria eliciting an immune response, which causes an outpouring of retinoic acid into the bloodstream, and THAT is what gets into tissues and causes inflammation in places far, far away from the gut. I think that’s the logical bridge he has built between what is known about autoimmune disease and various pathogens and his vitamin A theory.
I’m gonna hafto agree with Zach on this one, based solely on my own personal experience. When I cut wheat out of my diet in 2011, my health improved dramatically. The handful of times I’ve tried to add it back never go well.
The starches I eat from corn chips, white rice, popcorn and baby creamer potatoes can definitely cause rapid weight gain if I’m not careful with quantity. I’ve been eating quite a bit of starch recently (more than usual) and I think it contributes to other issues like tinnitus and itchy scalp.
I love starch and I desperately keep trying to make it a staple, but it’s becoming quite clear that it does not love me (despite my intense denial).
There are whole populations that thrive on starch based diets, so I’m NOT demonizing starch per se.
But it’s become increasing difficult to ignore the obvious as it pertains to me personally: too much vegetable fiber causes overt issues and starch does as well, dammit.
The vegans on youtube seem healthy, but I happen to know two vegans in real life quite well and they’re most definitely not healthy.
I won’t pretend to know what causes autoimmune disease, but I’ve read that there is most definitely ALWAYS a diet related gut component.
In my own situation it “feels” very much like some sort of infection is/was responsible.
Magic Marker, I have a red, near infrared sauna and I like it a lot, but I haven’t noticed any huge improvements in anything. It does seem to make my skin smoother, softer. It really helps me relax and feels great on sore muscles. My husband made mine so it cost less than $100 for the bulbs and other parts. Not sure I would think it worthwhile if I had spent more on it.
Thanks for your feedback regarding the sauna, Jeanne.
A few years ago I built a contraption with four of those infra-red chick brooder lamps mounted on wood and hung in a booth made from heavy canvas drop cloth. I enjoyed it very much, but it (along with everything else I own) has been in storage now for a couple of years so I haven’t had access to it.
I’m finding out that real saunas are terribly expensive! Gotta dig out my homemade device and get sweating.
“Another recent study shows that when microbes are starved of fiber, they can start to feed on the protective mucus lining of the gut, possibly triggering inflammation and disease.”
https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/fiber-famished-gut-microbes-linked-to-poor-health1/
I’d rather get my facts from actual scientists rather than some dudebros on Facebook with pictures of lions as their profile pictures and Mein Kampf quotes.
Every low/zero-carber has to grapple with the fact that the existence of the Blue Zones takes a big, steamy dump on their little theories lol. Applies here too: lot’s of carbs, starch, fruits, veg, fiber, lowest rates of autoimmune disease anywhere. Hmmmmmmmmm.
And didn’t you yourself go on a massive starch, legume and fruit binge? Felt amazing, lost weight? Didn’t develop any autoimmune disease? For every anecdote of someone curing rheumatoid arthritis or any other autoimmune disease with zero plant diets, I can find you anecdotes of people doing the same with zero animal foods diets.
Our gut bacteria have been with us since the beginning. They are symbionts. All the science shows that they help us immensely. It’s absurd to call for a sterile gut, yet another thing that shows me Ray Peat is massively overrated (and he eats raw carrot every day for Christ’s sake, so he is feeding them). In the lab, mice with sterile guts are know to be prone to obesity and a host of other health problems. Babies who don’t get their mother’s gut bacteria (non-vaginal birth, no breast feedind), and live in overly sterilized environments (everything wiped down with Lysol, hands rubbed with Purell every 2 minutes), are known to “allergic to everything”, and start off with asthma and eczema and usually graduate to worse things as adults. A sterile gut = overly aggressive immune system. I recommend reading “An epidemic of absence” which deals with this topic.
Finally, a leaky gut can be caused with stress alone, regardless of diet. Once that happens, Pandora’s box is opened. It’s unfair to blame plants for that retrospectively.
Skeptic I’m sorry but this https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/23426893/ does not show anything valid for humans.
Yea I did have great results on a zero fat diet for 4 months. After which I got too lean and started having bad digestive issues. I would not do it again with fiber rich foods. I am healthier now eating way more saturated fat, protein and very little fiber. I don’t eat plants for the most part, only the sugar from them.
I hope I didn’t imply that plants or starch CAUSE intestinal permeability. I think it’s real clear that most people do fine eating those foods.
It’s seems to me that people with existing chronic gut dysbiosis due to taking antibiotics, low stomach acid, chronic stress, hypothyroidism or whatever, have a harder time digesting certain plant fibers.
As I mentioned earlier, I have never been able to fully restore the magical balance, else I’d have NO problem digesting mountains of beans, cabbage and raw vegetables effortlessly.
For these folks, excessive plant fibers can be an issue…but I don’t think they’re necessarily the cause, they simply exacerbate an already existing imbalance by overfeeding the “bad bugs”.
And I agree 100% that stress alone can cause a leaky gut.
My previous point was that meat/dairy/saturated fat don’t cause leaky gut (an idea the vegans keep pushing), but neither do plants (except for maybe wheat, I think that’s been scientifically proven)…unless you already have some sort of digestive imbalance.
Perhaps THIS is why people heal equally well using seemingly opposite diets.
Find the diet that works for you and your specific microbes.
Cron-O tells me I should be eating 65 grams of fat per day (based on their calculations for my age/height weight/gender?). However I naturally seem to need twice that amount to feel consistently good.
@Zach: Well either way, Blue Zones exist and so this argument is obviously false. The Nicoyans (one of the Blue Zones) eat beans every day, at every meal, and guess what, no auto-immune disease, low metabolic disease, etc.
@magic maker: exactly, first comes the gut disorder, then the fiber intolerance, and that doesn’t mean the fiber caused it. I agree about meat and fat being alright, but I wouldn’t put dairy in with them. Dairy has many problems with it. Other than the obvious hormones, antibiotics, and inhumane dairy farms stuff that we all know, the proteins in milk itself are very problematic, even whey, but especially bovine serum albumin and casein, especially casein A1 which is very similar to lectins and gluten, and has been implicated in many things from autism to leaky gut, M.S., and Parkinson’s.
I find it funny that “carnivores”, after the inevitable boredom of eating ribeyes for every meal of your life till you die, start adding back in dairy, something that has a longer rap sheet than the worst plants. Oh and coffee is magically fine too. You know, lions start their day with a hot cuppa joe.
Yeah you could be right. I had the same experience back when I lost a 100 pounds (plot twist: I gained it all back plus tax). The first 85 pounds took one year to lose, and another year just to lose the last 15! The 85 was far easier.
My experience has been similar — the last 10-15 lbs. is the most stubborn. In fact, I’ve never been able to lose it.
In the following video, the person talks about how our deep, visceral fat is metabolically active:
https://youtu.be/AipjUZo_vJM't=1m48s
It makes me wonder about the idea of overfeeding and gaining all the extra weight, before *hopefully* losing it spontaneously.
We know that ‘dieting’ is a failed strategy, when trying to count, measure, and weigh things. But, going hog-wild and eating lots of highly-processed items might cause other problems.
I get the idea of using highly-processes, highly-palatable foods therapeutically. Some have mistakenly thought that Matt promotes a junk food diet to reach nirvana. Which, of course, is not true. He’s written that, in the long-run, people should eat more of the quintessential ‘healthy’ whole foods.
So, if employing overfeeding, perhaps it should be done with more whole foods? Though, I understand some of the disadvantages with this, too.
Where the hell is that elusive dietary unicorn?!
Yeah I’m reading another book on intuitive eating (by Michelle May), and just like EVERY book/other content on this topic, if you read all the way to the end, they inevitably sneak in what you already knew anyway, to eat whole foods, avoid junk, and not to overeat. So “eat what you love, whenever you want it” really means: “eat only when hungry and try to love healthy foods that I pretended don’t exist in the first chapters”.
Haha. That’s an amazing intuitive eating summary Skeptic.
????
Skeptic-“Babies who don’t get their mother’s gut bacteria (non-vaginal birth, no breast feedind), and live in overly sterilized environments ” –
What if the mother’s gut was not optimum? Isn’t the baby inheriting exactly what was in the mother’s gut? Yes, eating dirt as a baby helps, but it seems that besides genetics, a baby will inherit the bacteria only from the mother.
Will our eating habits help us to grow new and different sustainable good bacteria as an adult?
@Lianda: that’s a good point. Probably if she has a bad biome then the baby get’s one too. As for eating habits, from what I’ve read at least, it seems that no, taking probiotics or eating sauerkraut/etc is not sustainable. They either die in the stomach acid and never get there, or get there but die off after a few days. Now the advice has changed to eat prebiotics and try to feed what you already have. And as someone brought up, the population ratio will change very quickly, so you have to eat the same way every day to keep it constant.
My anecdotal 2 cents: My two sons were birthed naturally at home and breast fed each for two years. We had a mini farm with goats, chickens, a dog and cats. They played in the dirt all day because we home schooled. My philosophy was the dirtier they were, the more fun they were having. Neither boy was vaccinated.
My oldest son has guts of steel, he can literally eat anything (including mountains of beans and starch) with NO issues, he’s 27 years old and has never had a round of antibiotics. Incidentally, he’s never had a pimple in his life.
His girlfriend (now wife) got whooping cough when they were in their late teens. She was a daycare worker and was required to take the antibiotics. My son opted out. They both had a bad cough for a while and then it was over. She developed severe skin and digestive issues in the aftermath and is now battling weight gain as well. Maybe it’s all a coincidence?
My youngest (25 years old) had taken antibiotics (as a baby) and has far more sensitive digestion, continuing sleep issues, had terrible acne as a teen, gets hangry etc. He got himself vaccinated last year as a requirement to be a firefighter and EMT. He suddenly developed egg and cow dairy allergies.
Same maternal biome (probably not ideal, but it’s all I had to work with), same upbringing. Very different outcome, immunologically speaking.
Yes, antibiotics probably saved my own life when my appendix ruptured in 2010, but I strongly believe that the damage they cause is permanent, especially the older one gets.
If someone knows a way to restore a whacked microbiome, please do share!
Magic Maker — you may already be familiar with and do all this, but the Body Ecology site talks about eating fermented foods on a daily basis to build a strong “inner ecosystem”.
Re: vegetables, she says that even cooked ones can be hard to digest, but fermenting them makes it much easier. There are lots of articles on the site and many are good, although I think some are drivel (e.g. ones by Dr. Oz). lol
Here’s just one article, as an example:
https://bodyecology.com/articles/fermented-foods-one-step-better-than-raw
Yep I’m not surprised by your son’s health. People born and raised in the country in ways you described are known to have superior health to city dwellers. Their stool samples in gut biome research show a much richer and more varied population than people born in the city in overly sterile conditions.
Hi turtlegurl…Yes, thank you. I’ve read nearly everything that Donna Gates has written. I own two of her books and have purchased countless gallons of her (overpriced, but very tasty) fermented drinks. I’ve also purchased and used many boxes of her cultures since around 2006-ish.
Her Body Ecology diet is extreme (very restrictive with lots food combining rules) and profoundly metabolically suppressive, this is merely in my opinion. Although to be fair, I had profound untreated hypothyroidism when I was was doing her diet. Perhaps I should try again?
Despite my heroic efforts to restore proper gut flora, my appendix still ruptured (I guess due to Hashimoto’s induced constipation). Looking back, I realize now that I also had SIBO and I think I was exacerbating the overgrowth, kinda like adding fuel to the fire? I dunno.
While I have made a lot of progress since the rupture, I continue to have low tolerance for copious quantities of fiber.
I will say that Donna’s cultures are of excellent quality, I got very consistent results with both cultured vegetables and raw dairy kefir. Every single batch turned out perfectly and I was able to make several batches off of one culture packet.
My latest theory is that gut dysbiosis from excessive antibiotic intake can permanently mess with carbohydrate/fiber digestion/metabolism.
I might try to get some VSL#3, I’ve read good things about it.
DUMB QUESTION: Where is this comment counter you people speak of? I don’t see it anywhere…
Don’t worry about scale weight, it’s just a force. I have learned to go by the mirror, definition etc. In the absence of expensive hody fat measuring techniques. The mirror is good. I remember how I used to care about scale numbers when my cousin, a natural bodybuilder always LOOKED better. These dsys, I have no clue what I weigh but I nevervhadca more defined muscular upper back. It was the best decision I ever did.
Lizzie Velasquez, as lean as she is, (no fat and very, very little muscle) if sent (hypothetically) to a planet with very strong gravity would weigh much more than the standard Sumo wrestler. If Jupiter were solid, she would weigh quite a lot. I used to know the approximations but I would say at least 500 pounds. Weight is medium dependent, location specific. Treading water in the sea, I weigh less than he average woman.
Hydrostatic weighing is pretty accyrate for body fat but I have ho idea how much it costs.
Jordan Peterson’s interview of his experience with just meat and water diet with host Joe Rogan. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HLF29w6YqXs
Is it possible that some of the good effects of the zero carb diet are from the production of adrenaline? I read in one of Dr. Schwarzbein’s books that eating just a protein meal causes us to produce more adrenaline for various reasons. I could definitely see this result in appetite suppression and rapid weight loss. I just wonder how long this diet will prove to be healthy? It might be one of those diets that works great…until it doesn’t.
No, it’s not adrenaline. It’s satiety. The body has been fed complete nutrition. There is nothing magical about it, just the right food for the task. Much like a Great White shark will eat a sea lion and be satisfied until he needs another meal of sea lion.
I can attest that my adrenaline runs through the roof on a very low carb diet. I’m manic. Ridiculous energy, can’t sleep, no appetite, racing thoughts and aggression, cold extremities, etc. Plus, as soon as I break that type of eating I experience many days of crippling fatigue.
Matt, your description matches EXACTLY what happens to me.
Also, here’s another useless tidbit of TMI: If I go low carb for long enough I will lose the ability to have an orgasm, but since I morph into such a complete raging b*tch, no sane person would choose to have sex with me anyways.
Adrenaline + Cortisol = The Voice of Rage and Ruin
Gosh, I do have fond memories of that Ridiculous Energy though.
Yeah, that ridiculous energy is usually what sucks people in and makes them feel like they’ve discovered a new, superior form of fuel for the human body. Oh but it’s not.
Hee hee.
Low carb = built-in birth control and safe sex.
Humans are omnivores, not carnivores.
Plus, when a shark eats a sea lion, it’s consuming everything – bones, skin, fat, eyeballs, liver, etc. On zero-carb, it seems most people are eating only muscle meat.
Does muscle meat have everything a human needs?
* 13 Essential Vitamins: A, C, D, E, K, and 8 B-Vitamins (Thiamine, Riboflavin, Niacin, Pantothenic Acid, Pyridoxine, Biotin, Folate, and Cobalamin).
* 16 Essential Minerals: Calcium, Phosphorus, Potassium, Sulfur, Sodium, Chloride, Magnesium, Iron, Zinc, Copper, Manganese, Iodine, Selenium, Molybdenum, Chromium, and Fluoride.
Except we’re not white sharks or carnivores. We’re opportunistic omnivores specialized for cooked food. If it was “complete nutrition”, there wouldn’t be a thing called rabbit starvation. Even the Inuit heavily supplement their “meat diet” with seal and whale blubber, which btw are 70% MUFA, 15% Omega 3, and only 15% saturated fat, unlike the butter, coconut oil and bargain bin grain and antibiotic fed Ribeyes that these “carnivores” eat.
Hey Matt, here’s another update on the very low fat diet. Seems like there’s no big change in my physique, but the waistline went down by an inch from its peak in a month! I’m still trying to eat very low fat, but have been adding back about 5 grams of butter/coconut oil a day which really makes the meal flavorful. Since I went completely sedentary for the past 2 weeks (not even walking for commuting) the caloric intake went down a bit, but it’s still around 3500, so I’m pretty confident that the shrinking waistline is not caused by a caloric deficit. Are you still continuing your experiment on a very low fat diet? I’m definitely gonna continue this and see what happens.
Juan
Hey Juan,
I haven’t been, but I miss it. I’ve been spending time with family and cooking for them, and it’s made it almost impossible to be really strict about eating a lower fat diet. My asthma is definitely worse, and definitely feel worse overall than when I was keeping it tight. Plus I haven’t lost any additional weight since I stopped.
Matt, I understand your situation since it’s pretty hard to find a balance between a low fat diet and a social diet. I might even look like an obsessive health hermit in terms of not even taking a single bite from a cheese pizza. That’s probably pretty bizarre from someone living a totally “normal” life. But you know, I feel like needing to complete this journey since I’ve really struggled with my life just because of the physique I have, and that’s the only thing that prevents me from falling off the wagon. Hopefully by the time you resume the experiment I have some more to tell you on the low fat journey.
Juan
Hi Matt,
I read that selenium is helpful for asthma, have you ever tried supplementing with it?
Or do you happen to eat a lot of seafood or brazil nuts?
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15106206
Yeah I eat a ton of seafood. It’s been my favorite food since I was a kid, but not much asthma relief from it.
Hi Juan,
You are right. The calorie model bullcrap and always has been.
“Dr.” Stephan Guyenet just cannot grasp that energy is a made up totally abstract mathematical fiction not a component of nature like radiation or matter (both stuff). Guyenet does not understand that the units, calories, joules, inverse fermions are alllll exactly tge same, all equally invented fiction. Energy and its many units are not….ANYTHING. We humans assign a number to objects called energy. We compute some dopey number then measure it. It’s useful in calculations but fiction, not any kind of extra stuff whatdoever. Being fiction, calories and joules etc. CANNOT ACT. Carbon acts. The energy (number) of a gamma ray burst does not harm us. It is the gamma ray radiation that does. Nobody seems to understand that caliries cannot do jack sh@t to a human body. Carbon and nutrients, hormones do. Stuff. Not fiction.
What is relevant and a factor (one factor among many others) is carbon atoms.
We eat to build and replenish carbon stores.
I have no faith whatsoever attitudes will ever change even among real researchers-like Dr. Bray etc. These people are not on the late physicist Richard Feynman’s level intellectually. And Guyenet/McDonald/CarbSane are not even on Bray’s. All of ghese researchers are total failures and so arrogant-tgey all have failed severely obese people-and they have no business insulting Gary Taubes when they have done next to nothing themselves.
I really hope somebody points the clueless Guyenet, Colpo, McDonald to my article here and they read it. It’s time for them to educate themselves. Physicists just laugh at them. I realize the insulin model is very incomplete but physicists respect Gary Taubes and do NOT laugh at him. In fact, physics legend David Gross thinks HIGHLY of Taubes. Tell Guyenet. It will chap his butt and send him into a fit.
Hey Razwell,
Yeah,just like those you’ve mentioned, I used to be an unapologetic calorie counting fanatic back in the day I dreamed of being like Frank Zane. I still do “count” calories, but it’s just for a reference and definitely not for calculating the deficit to lose a pound of weight/week or anything like that. It’s probably an abstract term anyways like you said. Pretty crazy I hear someone talking about calories at least once on a daily basis. Totally feeling the society being brainwashed.
so, from reading all the blog comments, it becomes clear that each individual needs a diet that is specific to his/her nutritional/metabolic needs, yes? has anyone done DNA testing for your ideal diet? (nutrigenomics?? is that what it is?)
There’s not much to go on BG. I know there’s a company out of Israel working on this genetically tailored diet thing but their still in the testing phase (Weizmann Institute). Sounds overhyped to me. At the end of the day, without a deficit, your body has no reason to burn fat.
These Taubes bashers such as CarbSane and Colpo do not GRASP what THEY HAVE ( the calorie model) is FAR WORSE than Taubes’ perhaps incomplete model. THEY HAVE NO MODEL at all….What CarbSane ( and Dr. Bray et al) have is a totally EXPLANATIONLESS model. I will tell you WHY below and it is from Feynman.
Both Richard Philips Feynman ( the late pioneering Nobel physicist from Los Alamos project NOT the low carb guru) and Steven Weinberg( another huge legend) are BOTH ON RECORD in writing stating the conservation of energy ( a number) or “teh fust law of thermodynamicz ( deliberate misspelling) as LyleMmcDonald likes to always misuse and mention, are
N-E-V-E-R, E-V-E-R EVER, EVER, EVER,. EVER ANY- ANY kind of cause, mechanism, or explanation for ANY phenomenon, including obesity. Feynman and Weinberg are some of the best physicists who ever lived.
I can say that the stupidity of Lyle McDonald, Colpo, CarbSane and Guyenet genuinely annoys me. Their articles are unbreable sh#t. Guyenet and McDonald need to learn that the elctromagnetic force governs human metabolism and all biochemcial reactions. Energy does NOT act or make objects move…. Feynman was clear about that and stressed it to the science teachers ( he was trying to edicate them) of the United States of America many years ago ( long before I was around) Feynman challenged them to explain how the toy moves WITHOUT EVER using the word energy.For more on this Google ” Richard Feynman Wakalixies Toy Energy” Brilliant points Feynman made….
I hope all Matt’s readers will politely challenge Guyenet to EXPLAIN OBESITY WITHOUT EVER, EVER mentioning the word energy, using it or even implyingit. THIS IS THE FEYNMAN CHALLENEGE, as I call it. BRILLIANT. Guyenet and McDFonald CANNOT- because the Taubes bashers do NOT understand obesity. Nobody really does.
Taubes WHOLE POINT is that something went very awry with obesity science/research./ And on that point specifcially he is a “MILLION PERCENT right.”
Just so you guys know, I like physics BUT I feel ethics and family are FAR more important than physics. This is why I respect Matt (and Alan Aragon who is a super dedicated parent and has good intelligence to understand what I am saying) because they are good family guys. To his credit feynman regretted further work on the nuclear project beyond what was necessary. Ethics are of utmost important if we are to survive.
I think Kevin Hall is a dedicated parent from pictures I saw. I didnt; know. But professionally he will not let gop of his dogma. Matt cured ME of “Michael Jordan Jocking”. I had gotten away fromt jhe sport, forgot some technicalities and came back to it a “super Jordan Jocker” forgetting how Olajuwon had a winning record against the Bulls and how the 1980’s Larry Bird led Celtics and even the Lakers spanked young M.J.
M.J. was a hero of mine but I BLINDED to the fact that there were others, too, who were GREAT . Kareem, Hakeem, GRANT HILL ( my favorite0 Stockton etc. Remember Drazen Petrovic- what a great shooter and he caused lots of probolems fro M.J. I respect him, he did not back down from His Airness and really challenged him, Petrovic won some of those battles.
Sim,ilarly, I wish for just once in their lives I could hear Colpo, McDonald and GUyhenet say, “Hey, we were wrong for so long. Raz researched this energy topic more than any blogger for 10 years. We will have to reconsider, we were wrong abnout reify energy and treating it like it is some kind of stuff or entityin nature.” NEVER will I hear that, ever. I would not even gloat. I wish I could GENUIBN ELY get these clowns to SEE feynman’s point. I genuinely am on the search for learning. Think of the good that could happen if more mainstream researchers like Dr. Levine could REALIZE what Feynman said. Progress will be made once we DUMP this energy balance non-explanation.
I was over at MyFitnessPal setting them straight an hour ago between work breaks on my brother’s Tablet he letsme borrow. LOL! Their tactics are the same as Lyle’s, silence him!. Delete him! Any time I mention that energy does NOT make objects move, it is an inbented mathematical fiction (not anything at all itself) that we people, we humans assign to actual STUFF, matter, objects, non-matter, too, such as radiation (radiation is stuff, particles, objects) , a number we compute and assign to various objects in motion (and this number is observer dependent). Energy does not cause, act, nor is it a mechanism or explanation. And like Feynman strongly emohasized using “energy” as the reason for objects moving is the SAME as saying MAGIC DID IT.
Merely bringing this up (usually politely initially) gets Lylexs, Guyenet’s and various forum members’ panties in a messy bunch. The physics illiteracy is POWERFUL.Even Dr. Levine is physics illiterate abiut soecific topics. There is no hope. They call Feynman’s articles and informatiin “woo”. ROTFLOL,
yes, I would agree that physics illiteracy is powerful, and alas,extremely common…….I wonder, how many people can UNDERSTAND, really understand this (physics) concept you are trying to explain and…. I wonder how many people have taken high school physics, let alone remember it 5-20+ years later….
#Skeptic-
The thing that makes me crazy about these “intuitive” or mindful eating gurus is that they are all within “normal” weight or THIN! You don’t see any fat gurus teaching it. (except me).
That makes potential IE people believe that if they learn how to eat mindfully they will lose weight.
I see IE as a partial method to deal with stress eating. It works to help you eat what your body needs, and the slower time and mental focus can help as stress relief. However, when someone gets to the point where they’re headed to the refrigerator for any food (no one binge eats broccoli ), it’s too late for the process to work. They are out of control.
The program that I am trained and licensed in from HeartMath? is called Stop Stress Eating?. They too, focus on avoiding unhealthy food (they say you make better choices when you’re not stressed out) – but I don’t do that at all. I don’t want to have any type of food have power over my people. The only way you KNOW you are free is when you DO have your refrigerator filled with ice-cream, and your pantry full of chocolate or any other “devil” food and you will eat it in front of others.
The HeartMath? program has been shown to be a very effective way to lose weight. Participants also report that their general stress level has gone down significantly WHEN THEY PRACTICE. I don’t mean that their stress level is low just during the practice time, but for many hours of that day. It also makes people more resilient to what was stressful before – so that may be having a positive effect on their weight issues.
But the bad news is that despite keeping records on the participants in the HeartMath beta program, they didn’t follow for much longer than the program. I asked for the contact info so that I could do follow-up interviews, but alas they didn’t keep the info. A real shame.
For me the issue is ALWAYS: can you MAINTAIN the weight loss. At this point in my life, I can’t even lose weight (I NEVER diet now). For most people they can lose weight, but blame themselves when weight creeps back and deposits additional “insurance” pounds.
My intention is to have my participants agree to follow up with me for at least 2 years. I will not ask them to use their scale- but simply ask how their clothes are fitting. I don’t think that anyone should have a scale, and refuse to get on it when I go for doctor appointments.
As far as intuitive or mindful eating goes, I truly believe that if you can transfer that behavior to other parts of your life you will be less stressed in general. My definition of mindfulness is essentially doing one thing at a time. Jettison multi-tasking. Your physical and mental health will improve.
And ignore those photos of thin Intentional eating gurus. They’re probably the picture of themselves when they were thin- just like Dave Asprey who uses his thin pictures while selling the idea of weight loss…. manipulative and lying.
Thin does not necessarily equate to healthy.
As I responded on July 3rd:
Aren’t many of ?’the things you miss the most? due to our artificial cravings, after eating processed junk for many years? Had we never eaten cookies, cakes, ice cream, and pies in the first place, we wouldn’t have any cravings for them. I’ve never eaten artichokes, so I sure don’t have a craving for them. Same goes for cantaloupes and eggplant.
Also, aren’t there consequences to eating ??anything you want for hunger and enjoying it without guilt??? I’ve known people all my life who have done this ? the ones that are still alive are mostly dealing with terrible health and suffering a variety of chronic illnesses.
I’m not suggesting the alternative is ?’torturing yourself on ? disgusting green shakes and eating ?clean? stuff that you gag on. There is a lot of area between the two extremes.
Hey Carl, Do you really know anyone who eats whatever they want whenever they want? I truly do not know anyone like that. Everyone I know believes they are eating healthy–and actively tries to get others to eat the way they do. Most brag about how great they feel in one breath and then complain about a slew of health issues in the next breath.
To everyone trying an extreme diet such as all meat, the very low fat, and the zero vitamin A: Don’t you go out to eat with friends, go to family events, parties, or have any social life at all? I can’t imagine how you could possibly stick to such a restrictive diet for very long.
Lianda, I’m with you. Long term results are what count. I would admire anyone who could maintain their weight for decades after trying something so extreme. I’m sorry, I have my doubts.
Hi, Jeanne:
Do I really know anyone who eats whatever they want whenever they want?
As I was about to respond, I realized your question was really quite thought-provoking.
It made me wonder:
“How much of what ‘I’ want is really my own desire?”
Do I want ‘X’ because I truly want it? Or, do I want ‘X’ because someone (family, friends, advertisers, etc.) planted that idea in me in the past?
How much of ‘our’ desires are really our own? I mean, we seem to come into this world with few instincts. We nurse, sleep, and poop without much help. But, beyond that, most other things are taught to us. We’re conditioned by our families (rightly or wrongly), friends, schools, religions, and, as previously noted, by advertisers on television, radio, and in print.
I find that an interesting line of thought. Personally, after leaving home at 17 and having my own experiences, I had to abandon many of the things that I was taught. Examples include race, gender, and religion. But, there were others.
Some history…
Growing-up in the deep south, my family didn’t have much. I don’t know what my parents earned, but I would imagine it was below the poverty level, as there were times we received government assistance.
Neither of my parents went past about the eighth grade, and, in that area and given the time they were born, this was not uncommon. We lived on a small farm out in the country and most everyone with whom I went to junior-high and high school lived and worked on a family farm.
Because we didn’t have much money, there was a fair amount of cheap ‘foods’ like canned biscuits, frozen waffles, frozen pizza, Pop-Tarts, boxed macaroni & cheese, Coca-Cola, popsicles, Kool-Aid, sugary boxed cereals, and so forth.
Now, we also had a variety of animals, so my Mom would also go catch a hen and we would have fried chicken that night. Not baked or grilled, but deep fried in Wesson ‘vegetable’ oil. We would also have bacon and pork chops from our pigs, along with cracklins and pork rinds. We would also gather eggs from our chickens and quail and eat them in a variety of ways, such as fried in bacon grease, boiled, and pickled. We also had cows, rabbits, sheep, and other animals.
Lastly, we also had a small garden in which we would grow corn, tomatoes, cucumbers, watermelons, cantaloupes, and probably a few other items that I’m forgetting, as this was more than 40 years ago.
Anyway, back to the original question:
Do I really know anyone who eats whatever they want whenever they want?
There are many people from the town of my youth that have never left the area. They were raised on their parent’s farm, they took-over the farm and worked it, and now, their kids are working the farm and will take it over.
These folks I was raised around had similar habits in what they ate — lots of boxed and frozen processed foods, many things deep-fried in ‘vegetable’ oils, using margarines, drinking a variety of sugary, carbonated beverages, lots of sugar-sweetened teas, etc. Some of them smoke, some dip and/or chew tobacco, while others do neither. Many drink alcohol, but some don’t.
Their parents and my parents did the same. My Dad was dead at 50 and my Mom at 49. They ate what they wanted, smoked, drank, worked hard (there was no concept of ‘exercise’), and their intake of vegetables (from my recollection) would be corn (fresh and canned), green beans and legumes, and mashed potatoes. With margarine, of course. My Mom also made cornbread and sometimes scratch-made biscuits from refined, white flour.
I don’t recall them eating anything like broccoli, cauliflower, spinach, Brussels sprouts, carrots, etc. Maybe they did, but I don’t recall it and I was never made to eat them, either. I was content to eat meat, potatoes, and gravy. I loved corn (still do) and we ate lots of beans and rice, along with rice and gravy with either beef, chicken, or pork.
So, yes, I have known — and, still know — people who eat that way. They have always eaten (and continue to eat) whatever they want.
I’ve seen parents and grandparents of my friends die from protracted diseases, which, to me, seem largely attributable to diet and lifestyle. Lots of heart attacks, bypass surgeries, cancer, and emphysema, to name a few. And, some of my friends themselves, are in terrible health — some having had various surgeries, some are morbidly obese, some with sleep apnea, some with cancer, and so forth.
As to WHY they eat the way they do, who knows? Did they just follow the examples set for them? Have they not been exposed to new or different information? Do they even care if their habits might mean an earlier demise? Or, is it because they like what they eat? Of course, I have no idea. Had I stayed in that environment, though, I feel pretty certain I would have continued on the same path.
At 17, I left home and joined the military. It wasn’t until my mid-30s that I started considering what I ate. Until then, however, I can honestly state that I gave zero attention to what I ate, with the exception of what I could afford and/or what tasted good.
From 17 to about 34, I drank untold gallons of sodas, regularly ate many bags of chips (mostly the many Doritos flavors), ice cream, virtually endless amounts of McDonald’s (McNuggets, various sauces, the Filet-O-Fish sandwiches, Quarter Pounders, and truckloads of fries with rivers of high-fructose corn syrup ketchup), Krispy Kreme doughnuts (delivered to our base 20+ boxes at a time), bags of Skittles, Snickers bars, and many of the items from my childhood.
And, I was overweight and would easily become out-of-breath with minimal exertion. I’d guess that my body temperature was probably high, as I always felt hot. I could be outside in fairly cool/cold weather and be fine with a long-sleeved shirt. My hands and feet were always toasty. But, body temperature was not something I ever checked. And, the few times I went to the doctor, I never paid attention to any of my biomarkers.
Well, that’s the long answer to your short question. It was really interesting to reflect on my younger years and think about this stuff. I rarely give it much thought.
Thanks for the question.
Thanks for your very thoughtful response, Carl. I grew up eating fairly similarly to the way you did. However, my mother believed she was serving “healthy” meals. She cooked with Crisco, Wesson oil, and margarine because she had heard that they were better for you than the lard, tallow, and real butter she grew up on. She served some kind of meat, a starch, and a vegetable with every meal. The vegetable might be fresh carrots that she cooked herself or canned (sometimes frozen) peas, green beans, or corn. Never salad–not many people ate salads where I grew up. We had lots of snacks like Fritos around. But she would not have thought those to be bad for us–after all, they were cornmeal, fried in corn oil, and salted. What was wrong with that? Now we’re told another story and many of my mom’s choices don’t seem so healthy. But what’s the truth? We didn’t eat broccoli. I discovered that when I went away for college. I ate boatloads of it. I liked the taste and thought it was good for me. Now I read that I may have been poisoning myself with excess vitamin A. Our concept of what is healthy is constantly changing.
I honestly am getting so sick of everyone only eating for entertainment. Literally every meal everyone eats is entertainment. Food should not rule everyone’s emotions. It’s fuel for the rest of your life. Fuck what anyone thinks about what You eat.
Exactly, Zach. Food is fuel. Eat it and move on with your life.
Again, the Great White or lion doesn’t think about, talk about or plan the seasonings, side dishes of its next meal or plan the entire day around which animal has the most eye candy or mouth entertainment. It finds the meat it can catch, eats the damn thing and moves on.
Zero Carb=no plants is exactly that. Eat the damn meat (what you like and can afford) and carry on with your life. It is true freedom that no other diet has ever provided for me. Anyone who stays with it for longer than 30 days gets this…the mental shift happens.
There is no temptation to eat the plants that made your life miserable with excess fat (if you are lucky enough to get this visual symptom) or autoimmune disorders (the invisible symptoms).
You eat to fuel your life. Life is the entertainment.
Kelly Williams Hogan got her life freed of obesity and diet obsession and was finally able to have children. Yes, she started with Low Carb (and all the residual temptations and obsessive exercise required) to lose the weight, but Zero Carb gave her the life…simple food, no temptations, three children and no exercise beyond daily activities with a family and a home.
Because that’s why we are all here at 180 Degree Health, right? To turn our life right side up from the bottom heavy SAD diet.
In case I haven’t shared before you can read Kelly’s blog which starts here. http://myzerocarblife.jamesdhogan.com/wp/2015/01/my-doctor-said-lose-100-pounds/
Annab, I agree. Food is akin to religion for most. Eating a simple diet of what you want when you want can have tremendous effects on your outlook of life. It’s freeing for sure.
As for carnivore diets, I obviously won’t say humans are obligate carnivores, there is no proof of that. Besides that, obligate carnivores only eat fresh kill, raw and many parts of animals. That’s a far cry from nothing but cooked ribeyes. Who know what other nutrition they are getting from eating that way. Also many cultures are the picture of health despite a plant centric diet or at least some plant matter so we can’t say plants are the enemy. More often lifestyle, diet and genetics played key roles in people gettin a form of auto immune disease. BUT I would say animal foods are more inline with optimal nutrition and also plant foods are much more irritating once someone is sick. Fiber seems to play a huge role in auto immune diseases mainly because they feed bacteria so easily and I believe bacteria to be the cause of almost all disease besides outright heavy metal or radiation poisoning.
I know some people are doing awesome eating nothing but meat so if that works, keep doing it. As for any diet though, for aware of the feedback your getting from your body and don’t be afraid to try something else if it starts going down hill.
Sharks and lions don’t have any other options, AnnB, when it comes to food. Sharks and lions also don’t use computers, so perhaps we should stop using them.
Also, not all plants make all people “miserable.” I happen to like some vegetables and most fruits and nuts.
And, suggesting that plants cause autoimmune disorders ignores the many people who have autoimmune diseases (as well as other conditions like cancer, heart disease, multiple sclerosis, etc.) and recover on plant-heavy diets like Joel Fuhrman’s “Nutritarian” (plant-based) diet.
It’s great that a meat-only diet is working for you, after about two months or so. I’ve seen low-carb diets work for people for two or three YEARS, before they stopped working.
So, I think caution should be exercised in painting any diet as a panacea.
“.. the mental shift happens.” Yeah, it’s called an eating disorder.
I agree that food shouldn’t be entertainment, but ENJOYING what you eat daily goes a long way towards keeping cravings away.
I don’t naturally enjoy the taste of things like Brussels sprouts or cauliflower unless they’re well-cooked and smothered in loads of cheese, butter and/or salt to make them palatable. Same goes for plain kale and many of the so-called “healthy superfoods”.
I read these testimonies of people restoring their health by eating low fat, vegan and raw, but compared to the garbage they were eating before, perhaps it’s no wonder they experienced health improvements?
I’ve also read that protein (red meat, eggs and dairy especially) are supposedly the most difficult foods to digest, vegans spout this crap all the time. However I don’t find that to be true AT ALL.
Personally, I have no problem digesting huge quantities of steak, eggs and cheese, but raw vegetables, cooked beans and too many nuts will rip my intestines to shreds. I certainly don’t enjoy the after effects.
I guess gut flora plays a big role here. I’ve tried for years to alter the balance of who lives in there. I’ve spent literally thousands on probiotics along with fermenting my own cultured foods, starting off with small doses and trying to build up….all to no avail.
I finally concluded that just because some folks enjoy eating an abundance of vegetables and tout them as healthy superfoods does NOT necessarily make it so.
Humans can be perfectly healthy, well nourished and satisfied eating meat, eggs and dairy if they wish.
I’d choose blackened prime rib over a bowl of kernel corn or eggplant every time.
I agree, Magic Marker. Food should be enjoyable–and I think it should frequently be enjoyed with others. All cultures that I know of have traditions that involve food, and I think that’s a good thing. I’m not really sure what is meant by food being entertainment, but I don’t think that’s what I’m talking about. IMO, eating should not be viewed as a chore and food should not be viewed as fuel only. It should be palatable and a pleasant experience overall.
Many vegetables are difficult for me to digest, but some aren’t. I love a good ribeye, but to make it truly satisfying I need hash browns or a baked potato with it. Maybe with a side of stewed tomatoes. And I need some variety. I’ve tried so many diets over the years and it seems like the 2 things that made them most miserable was a) not enough food (I was starving) and b) not enough variety. Even though I like ribeye a lot, I would be miserable having it every day.
I know what you’re saying Jeanne, but most obesity scholars agree that social eating is a big factor in obesity. People eat a lot more around other people than they eat alone, and the fattest nations are those with the most ceremonial feast type customs (such as Pacific Islanders).
Jeanne, if you watch videos on hunter gatherer tribes, they still look at food as fuel only. They will eat the most unpalatable things daily just because that’s how they survive. Inremember watching a tribe that ate mainly rat and a bland pulp of the inner core of a tree. No real seasoning at all.
So yea, enjoy the food you eat for sure! We live in a world of convienence and your and I are lucky that we’re able to eat ribeyes or whatever else. But every night should not be a social hour to pig out. Really I think one of the reasons Americans are so unhealthy besides the obvious is that they have way too many choices in foods and they eat way too much varieties. Their gut biome cannot process French toast for breakfast, chipotle burritos for lunch and pasta for dinner. It’s a bizarre eating style that is beyond decadent. Kings never ate so well.
Also I have tried meat only and although I don’t think it’s right for me, you do lose the cravings for a lot of things and good meat becomes very palatable.
@magic maker: have you had multiple antibiotic treatments like me?
I suspect that’s why I can’t handle fiber anymore, because the gut bacteria are all dead :(
Eating sauerkraut and yoghurt does nothing–the bacteria don’t survive long enough to take up residence. Even fecal transplants don’t last very long.
@Lianda: yup you’re right lol
And they tell you how they “battled” the ten pounds they had to lose and I’m over here with 130-140 pounds to lose, depending on who you ask
@Skeptic…YES, a LIFETIME of antibiotics. I was adopted at birth, chronically ill with ear infections from day one, NOT breast-fed (obviously). Had the tonsils removed at age three. More antibiotics as a teen for acne.
I’m very much inclined to agree with you that that’s the reason why I can’t do a lot of fiber.
I’m curious now @AnnB…have you had a lot of antibiotics in your lifetime?
Also, what are your symptoms from eating too many plant foods, if you don’t mind sharing…
Magic Marker, I have also had way too many antibiotics in my life–plus several days of topical chemo that made me really, really sick. After that, I suffered for a year and a half with chronic diarrhea and could tolerate virtually no fiber. I spent hundreds, if not thousands, on probiotics but they were of no help. Activated charcoal helped a good bit, but the diarrhea came back when I stopped taking it. After I read about the problems with vitamin A, I started taking taurine–3g per day, divided. It’s been a miracle for me. Within just a few days, my digestion became perfect. I’m actually thinking about adding some fiber to my diet. Disclosure: I’ve only been taking taurine for a couple of weeks. So it’s too early to recommend it for curing everything. But I’m definitely enthused about it.
Hi Jeanne…I neglected to mention back in August of 2010 my appendix ruptured. I was VERY stressed out at the time, morbidly obese, suffering from severe hypothyroidism (constipated) while eating a ton of bread. I didn’t have surgery, but was in the hospital for days with IV antibiotics and sent home with more very powerful antibiotics.
It took many years to recover somewhat normal digestion. I can tolerate a day or two of lots of fiber, but not too many days in a row.
I recall taurine making me feel quite good, I had noticeably more stamina while doing a lot of physical work last summer. I used a powder added to homemade lemonade: a fresh squeezed lemon, grated ginger, local raw honey, 1.5 grams of taurine powder and sparkling mineral water…..mmmmm, *drools* perhaps I’ll pull that out again.
I think taurine helps make more bile…or thins bile, if I recall correctly.
I’m excited to hear how your fiber experiment goes, please report back!
Magic Maker,
Health issues from plant foods. Unrelenting fatness…making it difficult to bend and move and pick myself up off the floor, difficult to get down on the floor. A real struggle to get into a pickup and becoming more difficult to get into my Chevy Traverse….the fat old lady syndrome where she sits more than she walks.
I seemed to stop gaining weight on my 5’2 frame, but it was difficult to keep it at 230…edema would easily drive it up ten pounds in a day or two…and then take a week or more to ease up for clothes to not be tight with just sleeping inclined (helped a lot but didn’t make it go completely away)…so unrelenting edema – now gone with a few days of Zero Carb.
Constipation – gone, bloating – gone, gas – gone, reflux – gone, hemorrhoids. Bladder leakage – had it under control with high dosage Vitamin D, but Zero Carb keeps it there, without Vitamin D.
Rising blood pressure, blood sugar…unsteady. Itchy back, dry skin all improving…the backs of my hands are no longer flakey. The skin is thicker (it had been becoming transparent old lady skin).
I didn’t like the ‘full’ feeling of eating plant based diet (SAD). Now I can be full of meat, but it isn’t a physical discomfort, just a knowing that my body is satisfied.
As a child, I had antibiotics, as that is what my parents believed in, and likely what I needed with a strep throat infection a time or two. Once I was on my own, I chose to avoid them as much as possible, although unavoidable with invasive dental work.
I was quite ill with a gastrointestinal infection for a third time in less than 6 months in 2007. I thought it would go away like it had in 24 hours the first time (May), a week (August) and then in the 3rd week in October. Nope, it dragged on for two weeks and I lost 25 pounds from 175-180 lbs.
Finally the lack of sleep, pain got me to the ER, Pain pills and sent home. Back the next day and admitted in the hospital an hour from home, had MRI and then 2 renal stents. Spent a week there and no stronger. I could not eat. Also on morphine IV with a self doser.
Next week sent to another hospital 2 hours from home on nutritional IVs and morphine for pain. Getting weaker. Had MRI, colonoscopy and eventually abdominal surgery for appendectomy and complete hysterectomy.
The doctor suspected cancer, I said no, I don’t have cancer, but go ahead with surgery Saturday. They never did discover the issue, but I’m certain it was diet related, Dysbiosis? that inflamed so it affected the ureters to nearly swell shut. Morphine and a slew of antibiotics. Sent home Monday.
I had some similar discomfort even a year later, but not severe and had it checked with Xray to constipation.
Following Matt’s guide to stop drinking water like a drunk, and eating instead of dieting got my bowels working much better than ever, but the high weight and etc. as described above was just killing me slowly.
I had dread that my health was going to take a major nose dive at any time, so I was still seeking a solution to excess fat (obvious indicator that my body was not happy with SAD); and like mentioned here, I just wished I could bypass eating altogether…just boring as hell…pleasant company or not.
I totally understand intravenous feeding instead of bothering with food.
But when Shawn Baker was mentioned, it took a few weeks to catch on that this might be my solution to eating as close to intravenous as possible.
No special gymnastics to locate all the various foods that would supposedly create a balanced diet…and no having to do all the time consuming food prep, baking, cooking, planning meals to use perishables.
Meat is simple. My husband looked UP at Costco’s meat department and ASKED about the bulk meats in the back. He brought home for me a $6 pound tri-tip 64 pound box, including weight of box.
We vacuum packed two to a package. Put in freezer. Thaw a package, slice off/cross cut pieces and broil them. Season as desired. Done. Fry up some bacon to eat with the beef and drizzle the excess fat over the tri-tip teeny steaks. Delicious.
One broiler pan. One fry pan. One plate. One glass for water to drink water prior to eating and between meals.
Meat is complete for me. Cuts the mental and physical clutter of eating.
And cuts the clutter of too much throughout the house…a mental shift that happens. I thought I was unique, but it happens to everyone who continues past 30 days. Starving people hoard. Fully fed people don’t have that drive or once fully fed no longer do.
Taking food to work is eating. A pyrex snap top square container full of bacon and tri-tip. And I take my water from our spring to work, too. It’s not treated with chlorine as it is at work.
Sharing this for digestive understanding from someone who’s had a personal view.
http://roarofwolverine.com/archives/412
WOW AnnB, thanks for sharing!
I’m also 5’2″. I peaked somewhere just over 200 lbs. at my heaviest, actually I stopped getting on the scales when I saw 199, but I know I must have hit 203 or 205….felt like I was wider than I am tall, couldn’t reach my feet, excruciating back and joint pain, high blood pressure, high cholesterol, high blood sugar, etc. etc. etc.
That wolverine site is amazing!!! When I was in the hospital with my ruptured appendix I refused to sign the surgical papers. The doctors told me that the CT scan revealed a debris field and inflammation so extensive they would be removing several feet of my intestines. They wanted me to sign a blank consent form basically allowing them to take anything out of my abdomen…no thanks.
I can relate 100% to what that guy writes, I digest ALL animal foods perfectly, but an excess of fibrous plant material, not so much.
TMI alert: I made a delicious all organic 5 layer dip for a family gathering recently. This consisted of properly prepared pressure cooked black beans, guacamole, sour cream, 4 cheese blend and salsa to go along with those luscious Jackson’s Honest Sea Salt Lime tortilla chips (man I LOVE those chips). I didn’t eat a lot (okay I did), but the beans ruined me. Lots of lower gut swelling, pain, gas and general distress. How do I know it was the beans, specifically? Because they came through completely undigested, recognizable….and I’ve eaten all the other ingredients separately without that kind of reaction. I love black beans, but this distress happens every single time I try them. I’m so done.
Once again I find myself embracing the thought of never bothering with plants. Ever.
But that’s so extreme AND I love berries.
Magic Maker,
You could do Zero Carb/no plants for as long as it took to see health restoration and then experiment to see if you could add back berries on special occasions.
That’s what I intend to do. Get well, including the obvious, get to natural size (I expect a year or so…no rush) and then see if any of the berries, when in season are tolerated.
Wish you the best,
Ann
Hi AnnB,
This sounds like a reasonable goal for you and a great experiment! It would be very interesting to see if you are able to successfully reintroduce some plant foods. My guess is that you’d hafta go very slow, using tiny amounts as you build tolerance.
I would LOVE to look like Charlene Anderson and the simplicity of a carnivore diet certainly appeals to me, but I’m not sure it’s safe for someone like me with thyroid issues.
The gorgeous Swedish blond you linked to, WOW what a difference!!! She’s lost a ton of fat, looks like a completely different person.
I’m wishing you much success in your journey and hope you’ll continue to update here. Thank you so much for sharing and for your kind words.
Matt, you need a forum, PRONTO!
@magic maker: belching and acid reflux while it’s in the stomach, where it stays for waaay too long. Then as it moves to the intestines I get gas and sharp stabs of pain. And the big finale is a coin toss: diarrhea or constipation.
@ Skeptic… Is this your reaction to just plant foods? Or ALL foods? Do you digest animal foods well?
I no longer have the upper gut distress, belching, reflux, food just sitting there, etc. However, I did experience all of those (years ago) when I was severely hypothyroid. I wasn’t making enough stomach acid and apparently my love affair with sourdough was ruining my small intestines, further contributing to malabsorption.
Have you ever tried supplementing with betaine HCL?
When is Matt releasing his autoimmune post, did I miss it?
I get acid reflux pretty much every time I eat lol. Doesn’t matter what the meal is, healthy/unhealthy, big/small meal, carnivore/vegan, literally doesn’t matter, heartburn is guaranteed. But gut pain only with high fiber, especially high insoluble fiber foods. So all legumes and whole grains, nuts and seeds are OK in small quantities, most fruit and veg, but things like lettuce and cucumber are pretty friendly I find. I’m fine with refined starches, white bread, white rice, white potatoes (ONLY baked lol, if you let it cool the resistant starch content goes up).
I can’t handle dairy and eggs very well, though I eat them if I crave them. Meat is good and I love butter, the most digestible food of all. But either way, digestion is never smooth. Food stays in my stomach for way too long. I suspect like you said that I have low stomach acid. I’m scared of trying betaine HCL because if you get the dose wrong you’re basically signing up for stomach cancer.
Hi Skeptic,
I can understand your apprehension with betaine HCL, but having improperly digested food can be bad, not to mention the real possibility that you aren’t absorbing nutrients adequately. Most folks start with a very low dose, one capsule, paying close attention to symptoms, and progressing slowly upping the dose until digestive issues subside. If it helps, then you know for sure.
You could also try apple cider vinegar, it’s very helpful and SAFE. Also, Swedish bitters.
From everything I’ve read along with my own personal digestive experience, it’s far worse to have low stomach acid than too much stomach acid.
I’m pretty certain that longterm achlorhydria leads to stomach cancer. Also being infected with H.pylori (a bacterium which lives in the stomach of a LOT of people) can lead to ulcers and stomach cancer in some.
Having sufficient stomach acid is crucial to longterm good health.
I feel your pain Skeptic, poor digestion is a nightmare.
Hey, Skeptic:
It’s likely that you’ve either seen the following article or ones like it. But, since I can’t be 100% sure, I thought I’d mention it.
https://innergardenhealth.ca/wp-content/uploads/2015/02/The-Long-Hollow-Tube-of-the-Colon.pdf
See the bottom of Page 7 and onward for some suggestions. My hope is maybe you will find something that you’ve not yet tried. I wish I could offer you a solution to your digestive woes. My digestion isn’t as bad as yours, but I’ve got some issues, too.
By the way, if you’re inclined to share, I’m wondering where you live. The general geographic region, that is. I’m in the southeast U.S.
Be well, amigo.
@Magic Maker: I’m beginning to warm up to the idea. I was thinking recently that maybe part of why I used to drink so much Coke is because my stomach acid was too low and I was using Coke as an acid supplement lol.
@Carl: thanks I’ll give that a read. The B vitamins caught my eye–nearly every heartburn type website/forums suggest a B vitamin supplement. Might be worth a shot. I live in Canada.
Skeptic,
I had no intention of becoming an ambassador for taurine, but it seems that I’m always bringing it up. Anyway, taurine has significantly improved my digestion. My chronic diarrhea is finally gone and reflux is next to nothing. Food no longer just sits there forever. Here’s an excellent article about the benefits of taurine supplementation on digestion: https://hackyourgut.com/2017/01/02/10-reasons-why-you-need-taurine-for-amazing-gut-health/
In the conclusion, the author states: “Taurine may be a valuable supplement for people with digestive disorders including IBS, IBD, and SIBO. It wears many hats including conjugator of bile acids, regulator of the intestinal environment, and modulator of intestinal motility. Taurine is also useful as an adjunct to other therapies including antibiotic use. It may help maintain a healthy microbiome and prevent post-antibiotic dysbiosis.”
Best of luck in getting your digestion back on track.
@Skeptic…ME TOO!!! I drank a ton of Coke because it helped with digestion. I also supplement with B vitamins too, I feel better with them.
I’m still drinking the Mexican Cokes (and Red Bulls) on occasion, but in all honesty I’m not sure that refined sugar is great for a peri-menopausal women, at least not ME. Or maybe it’s because I eat so much fat, I dunno. I’m still refining my diet, but if something’s gotta go in order for me to lose some pudge, it won’t be the fat.
Refined carbs like OJ, honey, etc. and give me NO digestive distress whatsoever. I guess those sugars are absorbed up high in the intestine and never make it to the colon, which is where the excess of fiber can cause issues (at least for me).
I hope you try the apple cider vinegar, taurine and/or other hacks and let us know!
Hey, Skeptic,
I’d hoped you might be somewhere close to me, but I knew it was a longshot.
There’s a product called “Restore” that I’ve seen a few different practitioner use.
http://zachbushmd.com/restore
Maybe it would be good for you and Magic Maker?
Of course, there are many ideas and supplements out there. I think many people are shooting in the dark. But, give “Restore” a critical look and see what you think.
As for B-Vitamins, I’ve used ones from Garden of Life and from myKind Organics (also from Garden of Life). Most recently, I’ve used the “Super B-Complex” from the Pure Synergy Company. Amazon sells it, too.
This may be a Catch-22. If we have gut issues, we may not absorb the supplements. But, we may not absorb the supplements, due to being low in some nutrients.
Good luck, friend!
Thanks for the suggestions guys. I usually have a deep distrust of supplements of any kind, but I may try them soon. Taurine sounds very promising but part of me is thinking what if? Like if you remember a couple of posts back, someone was arguing with Dr. Joel Brind in the comments because they took glycine as he recommended but ended up getting very bad kidney stones. Stuff like that keeps me highly suspicious of supplements.
@ann b: meat is so “naturally” satisfying that you need to add seasoning, drippings, and tons of bacon (a known carcinogen). Seems legit. Hopefully you won’t get Shawn Baker’s blood results.
Seasonings and bacon aside, yes, physically meat is satisfying. Ultimately. Unlike any other meals I’ve had of mixed foods. Pork not so much, though. I have no desire for other foods. Tri-tip was trimmed of fat with barely any to be seen….that’s where the best flavor is. So until I ask the meat man for some beef fat trimmings, I’ll use bacon drippings.
We just took cattle to market and saved back two or three for the freezer (for ourselves and two sons). So I will instead tell our butcher to trim less fat off.
Here is a beautiful young woman who was wider than tall; she ate bacon for a year.
https://www.instagram.com/lchfingenjoren.se/
A person on a meat only diet and a person on a SAD diet’s normal blood work has no basis for comparison. When someone decides to compare a group eating only meat and a group eating SAD, then will any results have meaning.
The ‘scientists’ who have decided that fat burning body is not normal and an insulin sugar clearing one is, have a lot of ‘splainin’ to do to for me to believe any longer that only the humans are sugar burners that require ingesting sugars to create any.
What if Shawn Baker’s A1C numbers are the normal? I expect to discover mine…when I get tested next year will be similar. Or maybe not as I don’t intend to do any muscle building beyond what I need, at the moment I need it.
Did anyone test the fluffiness of his triglycerides? That indicates they are harmless. And really, who knows what true normal is anyway…the ‘scientists’ keep lowering normal. Same with glucose, etc. Elders with high cholesterol outlive in better health than those with low or artificially lowered cholesterol.
At my last bloodwork, my cholesterol was pretty much on target with ‘normal.’ If they change and resemble Shawn’s I’ll know for certain I’m eating right…but I already know this.
This is a typical argument from the carnivores: after Shawn Baker’s hilariously bad blood results, they have switched to saying “who cares about blood results?! do they even mean anything? Who set them, and are they even accurate? I mean I feel awesome so why should I care what the blood test says?”
Well for one thing, they say avoid carbs because your blood sugar goes up and then that feeds cancer, bacteria and yeast, etc… But then you see that Baker’s blood sugar is sky high, and then they say “oh that’s normal, every low carb ‘athlete’ has high blood sugar. Lol what?! So avoid carbs to avoid high blood sugar, but you’ll have high blood sugar anyway (higher than a vegan lol).
They also say they’re “fat adapted” and running on fat, the “cleaner, better fuel”, but their body is saying “screw that, I’ll make my own glucose then”. You are still running on glucose, the preferred fuel of the muscles and the brain.
Hi Lianada,
Along with Dave Asprey , another I dislike is Armi Legge is a “snot nose”. LOL ! They certainly have their charlatan tricks.
Hi bg,
I guess the best way to phrase it is to “think of energy just as a numerical quantity that people assign to background fundamental quantum fields.”
Fields are stuff,this invisible stuff fills all of space. We can feel the effects of electromagnetism. Physicists think these fields are really there, actual stuff, not a metaphor. Nor a number. Fields are the ultimate fundamental stuff says quantum field theory. it could be mistaken, Einstein postulated what if physci cannot be based on these background fields, but we have good reason to think they are there. : )
***Fields, radiation, atoms are all actual stuff, entities, not numbers. There is a widespread misunderstanding of energy though. It’s only a number. I do not think Dr. Levine understand this even. I am surprised he doesn’t.
We can feel the effects though of the electromagnetic field etc. On cold winter days, we all have been shocked by static electrcity. But Lyle McDonald/Stephan Guyenet et al are erroneouisly thinking energy is some invisible intangible stuff. KLyle is totally, toally, totally wrong. Lyle et al will not own up to the fact they have no understanding of energy and have been abusing the topic for years and misreprsenting it to the public, lying like the charlatans they are,.
Energy is not any kind of stuff, thing or entity, not intangible, not tangible, not nebulous, not invisible. Nothing. Nothing but a numerical quantity we find useful, a NUMBER.
It is not anything but a number we humans assign, a charcteristic we assign to objects- fields, atoms,. etc. We only need a single unit to measure this abstarct mathematical ficition called energy but we use many, many. ( calories, joules, inverse fermions, kilowatt hours, BTU etc.) We could use only joules for insyance for everything.
Energy is a bookeeping accounting trick, a number, that is all it ever was. : )
Well, I best head back into retirement LOL !
Take care, guys,
Razz
I think I have hit the nail on the head here summing up the source of the problem.
Here is the source of the problem. These researchers are WRONGLY deeming things impossible because of thei own FAILINGS misudnerstandings and physics illiteracy- not realziing that the laws of nature or physics are HUMAN MATHEMATICS, what WE THINK, ONLY “restriction” on how WE write equations, NOT restrictions upon Nature itself, as Dave Gross , Victor Stenger and other physics notables noted.
PHYSICS ILLITERACY /MISUSE IS THE CRUX OF THE ISSUE The physics illiteracy of Stephan Guyenet, Kevin Hall,and , saldy, even Dr. Mike Rosenbaum ( I would mention CarbSane, Colpo, Hale, Krieger, but they are not relevant to obesity research where they could make any impact by changing their views)
Hall could, Guyenet could. Hall could elad to a change to the bigger extent. And people like Dr. Mike Rosenbaum could REALLY make a difference if he changed his tune.
UNTIL these MISGUIDED dudes STOP happily citing physics ( all clueless dumb and happy and wrongly ) to defend and or promote their assumptions about oebsity and how we fatten and “what is possible” there will be no hope for severely obese victims-
AND until these aforemonetioned researchers REALIZE what it is like to remain obese NO MATTER WHAT YOU DO, they do NOT and will NEVER understand it. Gary Taubes said that last point and it was BRILLIANT and the same statement I would have made ( about no matter what you do etc.).
We see oebsity in destituite poverty- cvalid observation. Plus, there are obese people , many of them, where they will remain obese regardless of anything they try. GUyenet can IGN ORE this all he lieks, it is not going away.
Nature does not care what stuffy third rate Ph.D.’s believe think believe or assume , nor is it under any obligation to follow these said Ph/D.’s whims and misunderstandings/m,isapplications/misuses of how Nature works. Nature does nto care about crusty codgers circle jerks and peer rveiew.. Dr. Kruass had a lot to say about peer review on video which was negative and I toally agree.
Taubes hard hitting observations ( and forget the insulin model right now , only discussing the observations we see) about severe obesity and sever height growth in destitute poverty says a lot and is a clue. This should be INVESTIGATED NOT IGNORED. FEYNAMN WOULD HAVE LOVD to see these observations, giving us oppportunity to LEARMN. Have the Elon Musk mindset- forget everything you THINK you know/knew. Bruce Lee had a similar mindset.
All science is is a CHESS GAME and detective work, it is made out to be somthing different by dorky hokey popularizers. We are just people trying to play a chess game, as Feynman likened it to.
It’s more than time that we banded together and challenged these outdated DINOSAURS such as Drs. Guyenet, Hall , and Lames Krieger ( ROTFLOL)etc. What they are doing is called reductionsim ( and a poor job at that, mind you) They are doing EVERYBODY A SEVERE DISSERVICE. THEY ARE ALL WAAAAAY BEHIND THE TIMES.
We are learning more and more TODAY that reduction DOES NOT WORK in BIOLOGY. This is BIOLOGY, NOT PHYSICS,. Obesity is BIOLOGY. If you guys want some cutting edge vuideo GOOGLE SEARCH “DR. Krauss How Much MOre To Physical Relality?”
There you will see Dr. Krauss ( Guyennt is not even 1/4 as smart) talking how NOW we MAY NEED TOALLY NEW physical principles to EXPLAIN us humans, variosu doeseases, how to terat them, and just to explain our very existence- ENTIRELY NEW PRINCIPLES.There has been quite ALOT of evdience for this need over the last 10 years accoring to some perimeter Institute physcists.
That the principles which govermn PHYSICS- tables, planets galaxies MAY BE DIFFERENT from the pribnciples that govern LIFE- BIOLOGY! I would link it here but it probabaly would not go through….
CUTTING EDGE PROGRESS!!!!!! You will find NONE reading Hall,CarbSane GUyenet and the usual non-stop Taubes bashers. To me , they are JUST LAUGHBALE, LOW INTELLIGENCE AND IGNORANT!!!!!
The top notch physcsts I commnicate with do NOT dismiss me like GUyenet. In fact, they say I ask SUPERB questions. I take it as a compliment. I do not even care one picosh@t what Guyenet or Hall think of me- they are all low intelligence as far as I am concerned. Taubes is much brighther than they are.
There is FAR MORE we do NOT know about the universe than we know. There is FAR more we do NOT knwo about obesity and biology than we know. ANY TOP biologist or physics professor would admit this.
The pomp and circumstance of the CarbSane eld Taubes bashers are RIDICULOUS.
R I D I C U L O U S.
To cqarbSane:
REDUCTIONISM DOES NOT , NOT – NOT WORK IN topics soooooo COMPLEX such as life and all of BIOLOGY.
For the future: Just as Dr. Krauss thinks, I, too, would be surprised if there were NOT suprises in physics as well as biology the future. Guyenet et al’s minds are CLOSED. SAD, SAD…..
Of utmost importance is ASKING the RIGHT creative , insightful questions- from Newton , to Feynman, to Einy and other notables- they all were big on positing the right questions first and foremost. Making corrrect inferences, having INTUITION- ALL supremely important. Newton had a deep intuition. So did Feynman.
Taubes pushed us closer to asking the right questions, the right general direction- AWAY from the standard tripe. I think Kevin Hall et al have been asking all the wrong questions is that is why Hall and Guyenet have been stuck in RESEARCH L I M B O for 10 years plus. meanwhile, Friedman and O’Shea are making steady progress, meaningful work and progress.
One could propose ONE HUNDRED different cheeses- one would never, ever learn what the Moon is composed of because they are ttoally starting with a way of base assumption, wrong assumption to begin with. This is what they are doing with this Food Reward crap./ There, there little Johnnie, the BIG BOYS are off researching REAL QUESTIONS LIKE THE IMMUNE SYSTEM, GENE DEFECTS ETC,. DRUGS.
British physicist,David Deutsch( true intellectual) has a brillint talk about GOOD EXPLANATIONS and how the Ancient Greeks with their stories of seasons would not get one but closer to learning of seasons by chanigng their myths/stories to other versions of a story that has no basis in reality. If the whole PREMSIE is wrong to START WITH – you will get nowhere. WEe seek good hard to vary explanations, says Deutsch. Have a look. It is an AWESOME talk. One of the very best I have ever seen!
I think soenthing that does not get discussed among these vegan gurus and certainly not relayed to their viewers and the public – that plants are NOT a panacea. Even the ones we generally consdier healthful- mamny of them have toxins in them. The dose makes the posion. Humans are pretty big.
Plants do not want to be eaten . They employ all sorts of defenses from predators. Plasnts use an ingenuis chemical warfare. Plants will EVEN USE INSECTS to defend them.That last part was news to me.
Not all plants are healthful and many, many have toxins and more. I am sure , even if we were good at discerning safe platnst to eat, that perhaps a deer or other animal pooped on the plant and Paleoman died of deadly bacteria.
Dr. Eselstyn is a “true believer”. He may be a nice man but he is blinded. I respect how he will make a personal phone call almost anybody but he lied about some things. I do not know much about Wilt Chamberlain ( long before I was born- even Dr. J is before my true time of following basketball) but he ded of heart failure, very common in really tall people. He did not die of coronary artery disease or beef, as Esselstyn said. DurianRider is a fraud, a disingenuous fraud and numerous buddies of his are all poop for brians salesmen- including many of these medical doctors. Genuine scientists are UNCERTAIN what to eat. We can only do variety until we get moe information. Nutrition is so complex- much more so than rocket science.
I still eat blueberries, beets etc. but i am now cognizant that EVERYTHING we eat is a RISK. Kudos to Urgelt of YouTube for first briefly mentioning this or hinting at it- that e v e r y h i n g is a minefield, we take a lot of risk with our dietary decisions all of us. Hopefully, I got it kind of right LOL !.
Fuhrman, Esselstyn, McDouigall- they are all scammers trying to make a buck off of a naive public. GHENUIEN scientists laugh at their cocksuredness. We simply know tooo little thus far about how nutrients affect biochemical cellular operations. FAR too little.
GOOGLE SEARCH THIS: “Your Salad Wants To Kill You YouTube”
That salad video is nicely done! Funny, too!
Your Salad Is Trying To Kill You
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Ofgj2KDbfk
You also make a great point about everything we eat being a risk. I also hope I’m getting it more right than wrong.
In the end, though, perfect health is simply the slowest rate at which one is still going to die! :)
Thanks, Carl. : )
I am so excited about this UV radiation fat loss study I just found. I knew it allll along. I noticed the effect and knew something , some phenomenon was there, I stayed dilligent. Now, Dr Light will explain what is happening, How it happened puzzled me for years,. That is the crucial other part- explaining. I honestly was the first to propose this years ago in 1994,
I , despite feverishly looking, never saw it anywhere else on forums, nor journals, nor any opublic discussions for years. Matt probabaly knows over the years thast I mmentioned the sunlight thing to him in e-mails. But anybody who knows me knows how into this I am tropcial UV etc.. My razwell tropcial days at FigthngArts .com with OldMan Mark Cook and the cartoons
It is possible some other VERY rare person out there who pays attention to minutia like I do may have noticed this effect, too, ( and kept it to themself and only friends) but I doubt they spent hours under tropcial sun for two decades doing all sorts of opbservations and experiments LOL !
Those calorie /energy balance fools have no answer. This study ( and my years and years of observations) clearly demonstates even further it has always been about chemcial hormonal behavior of fat cells, their regualtion/dysregulationof fat cells. They will haev a FIT because they are NOT true scientists.
Fat loss with no- zero- fiction deficit, inverse fermions deficit LOL Those foosl wil not relize they totally misunderstand conservation of energy. They muisused it for years. Now they eat crow LOL !
it feels soooo good to be part of a breakthorugh evenif nobody knows it LOL ! I TOPPED Guyenet, McDonald, Krieger, ALL of them, big time with this.Honest observations and perserverance. : ) Feynman style
Take care,buddy,
Razz
Peat wrote about sunlight long, long ago. His belief is that warm tropical light (or heat of any kind) changes the fatty acid composition of cells from unsaturated to saturated, and this is where he believes the slimming effect comes from (since he believes obesity is mostly a matter of storing a bunch of anti-metabolic, estrogenic PUFA).
Yes, defitniely. It affects hormones, too very postively. There is a multi efect gong on. Really good stuff. All of this adds to it. Testosterone is boosted about in the sunlight, immune benefits 9 and immuen system regulates fat too)
Along witht he actual interaction of blue light and adipose tissue opning up . This UV causes the fat cells to open disengorge. Lyle cannot warp his head around that. Urghelt sauid years ago that disengorging of lipid content is the issue not themrodynamcis.
Do you happen to know when peat wroet about this, Matt. back in 1994? I first propsed this in 1994 and I think m,y particular proposal was of a different nature or mechnaim etc. Wish I could read peast’s stuff. i did not know you still liekd the guy etc.
I think the difference is my prosal was that I knew right away very early on that the fat loss was not *just* heat, that this specific UV form of radiation was also strongly directly affecting causing interactnig with adipose tissue.
/ i think peat’s proposal was from 2012. That is what I saw on a forum at least. i was preaching this ON the Internt before that at my former Blog.Remeber that fiasco? LOL ! I did not have the time to refute the d#ckheads , so I had to retire. plus Google never ever paid me for the ads. The small pittance i set up .
I pre-date Peat about 18 years. But he was born looong before me. So, if he HAD said this as a young man then I guess there is nothing I could do . I recognized the effect OF UV specifcially AND very early on though to my crdit. That first summer in Miami. Right away. The eyars followeign it I achieved the same success.
if you go to Key West at the solstice you will see this blue tinge if you pay close attention. ReptoidHumidian of Ciry=Data noticed this, too.
i even notcie how ther SAME person has DIFFERENT TINTS to thei9r skin at different latitudes. Hulk JHogan had a different tan in Southern California than in Miami. Different hues. The Amazon made my friend YELLOWISH liek JAUNDICE. I go onto this soooo much LOL !!!!!!
Hi Matt,
I’ve read quite a bit of Peat over the years, but I don’t recall reading this bit you mention here. I’ll go look for it when I have time, but I was wondering how this idea of Peat’s fits in with the folks who practice exposure to cold as opposed to heat as a therapy for burning body fat.
I know Peat would say cold exposure is stressful and raising stress hormones too high is bad, but dudes like Wim Hof seem to practice the EXACT opposite.
I read that Hof believes a person can even control one’s own immune system…this idea appeals to me.
Have you written or experimented along these lines?
Running to roast in the noonday sun now cuz, if nothing else, a tan fat ass looks better than a pale fat ass.
I have written about it. http://180degreehealth.com/hot-water-vs-cold-water-thermogenesis/
I think exposing oneself to high AND low temperatures, in general, is probably a really healthy thing. Just a good physical challenge with different sets of benefits. But ill people with a low metabolism are probably better served with heat.
Hey, Matt:
It’s amazing this post has 923 comments. Pretty cool. I find the comments on 180D more interesting that most other blogs and YouTube videos. Good stuff.
Anyway, regarding estrogen, have you had yours tested?
All of mine (estrone, estradiol, and estriol) were high, as was DHT. Although I’m not at all versed in hormones, I understand DHT is a factor in male-pattern baldness — which I’ve had since my 20s. Also, I’ve read that elevated estrogen (in men and women) is associated with a variety of chronic health conditions.
Have you any thoughts on using products to lower/block the effects of estrogen? Here are some products I found:
https://drwongsessentials.com/womens-anti-estrogen-dominance-program
Also, I read several articles by the same doctor (William Wong, ND) that manufactures and sells the above-mentioned supplements:
http://www.totalityofbeing.com/FramelessArticleCollections.htm
The sections “Hormone Therapy” and “Men’s Health” have some information about the effects of excess estrogen on men.
I’d enjoy hearing any perspectives you might wish to share.
I think this is Comment #945. Damn, Matt! You got a lotta peeps thinking and reading and sharing and trying stuff..you know, helping each other and shit.
Carl, when is the next Blogaholics Anonymous meeting?!
Yep, I’m so famous. Everybody loves me.
Hey, turtlegurl!
The next Blogaholics Anonymous meeting will be next Wednesday night at 7:00 p.m. … at The Cheesecake Factory. Afterward, we’ll all go out for dessert. :)
I made the first comment on this post and I hope to make the 1,000th, too! Never have I seen a blog post with even 1/3 of the number.
Carl — thanks for the info on the next B.A. meeting. I was afraid it would conflict with our C.D.A. (Confused Dieters Anonymous) meetings on Fridays.
Love the idea of going for dessert after the Cheesecake Factory — I’ll definitely be needing more at that point. I’ll bring some alcohol and cigarettes to round things out, and maybe some street drugs to finish the evening with. It’s gonna be the best 12-step meeting, ever.
Sounds good, turtlegurl. I’ll bring my Borat mankini for a thermogenesis cold plunge.
Carl — yes, a mankini is essential. But I’m gonna skip the cold plunge, because the shivering would make it too hard to smoke or shoot up. And you can’t have a proper 12-step meeting without those things.
Hi Everybody,
THIS is EXACTLY what I was talkign about. As people on here know, I have witnessed for 20 years straight this effect of FAT LOSS/REMOVAL with the tropcial UV sunlight. I have tested this over and over numerous times on the same vacation- and I been tot he tropcis well over 30 times in the last 20 years ( That is about over 60 plane flights LOL !)
UV radiation AFFECTS fat tissue in a positive way. You could get leaner. Calories, inverse fermions and other FICTION have NOTHING to do with it. Energy balance ( meaningless explanationless expression) had NORTHING to dio with it ( numerous mousse studies with gut flora also contradicted the beloved energy balance crap)
To quote the researchers :
” When the sun’s bluelight wavelengths- the light we can see with our eyes penetrate our skin and reach the fat cells just beneath, lipid droplets REDUCE IN SIZE AND ARE RELEASED OUT OF THE CELL. In other words, our cells do not store as much fat.
I have tested this soooo much going to a normal beach,( tan lower back leaner than buttocks , hamstrings at this point)
THEN I went to Haulover no bathing suit and my thighs and hamstrongs and buttarcks were LEANER than they were not exposed to sunlight for hours. REAL EFFECT. I KNOW IT from thiose experiments. I was there a full month numerous times. Areas strongly exposed to sunlight for hours and hours are LEANER than non-exposed areas. There is a very pronounced effect. I never knew what was goping on.
This has NOTHING to do with thermodynamcis…. ( Only the abuse of it by Guyenent and Hall /CarbSane et al or perhaps honest misunderstadnig iof it- but I susp[ect the former… )
Lipid content must be released from the fat cells- that is what is important.Release THEN physical removal/excretion
I havbe been saying this over and over for 10 years now publicly. But knew about this effect for 20 years since age 17. I am not surpised in the LEAST by this research. I saw it for myslef for 20 years – EVEN OTHER peoepl noticed I leaned out further in a week with no change in anything except lying in the sun for 5 hours, the semi-tropcial caliber UV radiation of Miami whihc is very strong,. i ate on the beach my normal intake, even meals afterward. I delierately lessened walking if anything. Just life stuff . When I walk my butt of but avoid the sun I did NOT lsoe much if at all. ( I did not have too much to lose anyhow)
PETER LIGHT was a scientist on the study. ROFLOL . Ho apporopriate!
Stick it, LYLE McDonald! ( and Guyenet) LOL ! SHOW THEM! But I KNOW they are going to STEAL IT from me. They ignored me for 10 years then STEAL it as their won. I was a innovator I suppose LOL
1
wow!! fascinating!!! just googled and found several references to that Jan. 2018 research article…. amazing! And, to think, in this day and age, we are told to put on more and more sunscreen…. wondering if that has anything to do with it as well – we might be blocking the blue light that we ARE exposed to… “3 cheers” for the Sunshine Diet !! :-)
Hi Razwell,
Your sunlight theory or rather experience/experiment is fascinating.
Once my body has made its adjustments by clearing it of the dysregulation via carbs, I would enjoy testing out your experiment with the sun. At the moment, I burn….or rather have all my life, so I avoided much exposure.
I freckle more than tan, but I might tan now, too. Too far north for tropical exposure, but midday hours should be a good test.
Ray Peat enjoyed Mexico when he studied and taught there and visited, and found people from the US who laid out in the sun would lose weight with ease. He didn’t connect the same dots you did, so you might want to contact him of your experience. He’s in his early to mid-70s…and appears in good health, but you never know.
I just thought it was Vitamin D in the skin tissues being activated, and it could be. But I think you are onto something more than just muscle and bone health, etc.
I hope it works out Ann, : )
I would recommend a Haulover beach vacation for 2 weeks if you can afford it. Some deals are on Booking and Hotwire. The strong intyense Miami sunlight on south is a pretty big factor, full body exposure or skimy bikini LOL !!!! And frequency. The beach bum lifestyle with a tad of lifting once a week ( as i lower it a lot on vacation deliberately) By beach bum, I mean that one stays at Haulover for like 5 hours or more. 10: 30 a.m. to like 6 p.pm. sauntering in and out of the water mayabe.
The length I went to were extreme. i am a real beach bum tyep of guy. Most are nto willing to log the hours under the sunlight , it can be daunting. LOL !
Vitamin D3 is imporant but they did not achi9eve it wihout sunlight radiation. The actual radiation from sun is doing the work etc. Intracting with the matter of our bodies./ The suplpementation did’nt do anything fat loss wise but of course it is good for health and disease rpevention etc,.
There are siome Europeans qwho I think deliberately bathe in these springs that have very low levels of uranium in them. Supposedly at this dose it is good for health.
Hope it works out, : )
Razzi
Razzle Dazzle!
Hey, buddy. I’ve been enjoying all your posts — especially about exposure to tropical sunlight!
For me, however, the first thing that comes to mind is worrying about so much exposure (several hours) for so long (days on end)! Isn’t there a reason to be concerned about skin cancer?
On sunny days, I try to get 10-15 minutes of mid-day exposure on most of my body. But, I’m not in Miami. I’m about 10? further north in latitude, so not as bad as Massachusetts or Maine, but not as good as Miami.
I’m very white and burn easily. I’ve never had a job that required me to be outside in the sun or the heat. I’ve always worked a desk job in an office, so I spend my days inside in the air conditioning. In many ways, I’m grateful, but I also realize it’s very unnatural. Sadly, my bare feet rarely touch the Earth.
Hi Carl, :)
Great to hear your thoughts again, my friend. I jnow deeeep space radiation would not just potentially cause cancers but kill us outright. Thankfully, we are protected by the Earth’s magnetic field and tge Heliosphere from the Sun. I never once heard dermatologists mention these once.
I think we are fairly protected sans these areas of ozone holes. I think skin cancer has a lot of scare tactics behind it. The multibillion dollar industry. I would advise verrry slow build up, never burning. I know many Haulover regulars who are deeply tinted as I like to say and they are about 75 years old or more. I am much younger but friendly with them . The healthiest man I know is a sun worshipper for the last 20 years. They are all free of skin cancer, these super tanned regulars I know.
I think we are protected from the Sun to a good degree. I spend much time outdoors in Miami but slso seek breaks and shade. I never allow myself to burn. Anotger tactic is 8 a.m. to 10 a.m. Miami sun , then avoid center of the day. Then go out at 6 or 7. In Miami it is bizarre , the sun gets STRONG at 5 p. m. surprisingly fierce. I looked up skin cancer gy nation and these Norwegian places have the most melanomas-i think that is another issue. The squamous types, I csnxt remember who had tjose. Bht melanomas show up on torsos and groin snd many times never saw the Sun. As long as we donxt sbuse the skin with severe burns I think we will be O.K. Greeks gave very looow skin cancer. Probably all that olive oil in fheir skin tissues. Many equstor and desert places have low skin cancer accordung to this site I came across about mortality ftom skin cancer
Surpringly they do not have leathery skin. Watch the episide of South Beach Tow. See the old guy with the feathery hat? He is another very heslthy, he is 89 and walks the beach every dsy to massage young women LOL!. HE pole vaults. LOL,Sunlight reduces pancreatic cancer and a few others that are not really treatable. I would hedge my vets. I would risk skin cancer not to get pancreatic. I worry about the high carb diets Colpo recommends and how it could stress the pancreas. I do a modified lowerish carb, very dead center
My contacts in Miami, a friend from the besch tells me to constantly turn over and over every 10 minutes. I wear a clear suncreen applied 30 minutes to an hour before going outside. Your latitude is probably near the Los Angeles 34 ish degree mark? I never experimented fhere. I do know Miami sunlight is fierce. I once landed in Miami from San Juan, P.R. and I noticed immediatrly how brutal Miami’s sunlight is. I am lidtening to Crocket’s Theme from Miami Vice with the keyboards electronic drums and guitar. A bit before my time but GREAT song. :) Hipe you like it.
All in all, there is some risk but I enjoy it sooooo much, I am willing, plus the big reduction in other cancers, is a plus. I think the Greeks do something protective. All the siun cancer people in my family, the relatives all avoided the sun. And one distsnt cousin eho got ovarian cancer was a sun avoider totslly. I would never, ever smoke. But I had neighbirs who loved it and would never give it up despite possible lung cancer.
Nay Mirgan Freeman’s magical taint be with you. LOL!
Take care, buddy, :)
Razz
“May Morgan Freeman’s magical taint be with you.”
hahaha I think it’s fair to state that those four words have never previously existed in the same sentence! :) That made me LOL!
Be well, my friend!
Carl
RAZ, I really think it’s heat, not UV light. Remove that air conditioning in Miami in the summer and the city would lose millions of pounds of fat. I know my GF once lost 50 pounds in just a few months without even trying just by moving to a place with no A/C in the summer in Florida.
Yes water
But the UV is blue light uis interacting with the acrtual adipose tiossue and causing loss. radiation is stuff so it can interact with tissue. The claore peoepo canot udnerstand that this is entirely possibl;e. If one was shot with beams of certain type and strenth of radiation they could even die, and get cinged! LOL !
Peter lIght shod the blue light deifnitely had an effect ont he fat cells. That si why I say UV radiaiton can effect fat cells and saw it firsthand. Don;t worry i HEAR you storngly about water oloss. When I took Aleve I lost a TON of water the first day in Miam sunlight. No doubt heat plays a big part in water loss. tahtis another important issue for those bloated. The heat also makles out bodies work hard and EXCRETE carbon breathng haaaard. DEFITIELY BUT I noticed after 23 yearsd my hamstrings and gluteus ( laufgh out loud) are LEANER exposed o Haulover sunlight compared to the regular beach where they get none. LOL !
HI Matt, : )
Believe me , I have thought this throuh for 23 years carefully. This is my life’s passion. Tropical tins. I always say tropical buttock tints LOL !!!!!!
My comment got muddled a bit previously .Whoops. Dr. Light expoed these fat cells to blue light from the sunlight. This light directly acts on and interfers with fat cells. This is why it was nos surprise to me. All that other stuff you say is TRUE. No doubt. I always admited it. : )
I lose a lot of water every time I visit Puerto Rico, too. But that is sperate and I know it is water as it happend in one day. Fat los from UV takes a bit lomnger asnd is cumulative.
But this UV radiation is important and a seprate issue addressed by Dr. Peter Light etc. See mnost peoe are not as beach bumy as me. i spend hours and hours ( and I eat well) on the beach. i spend 8 hours sometimes. I am darker than Obama when i go. My butt and hamstrings are darker too LOL !!!!!!!!!!! These Puerto Rican woen were in total disbelief looking at me- I was more than they were!
( heat has other IMPORTANT functions)
Hi Matt, : )
I wanted to specificy. UV can affect blood vessles but the BLUE LIGHT portion of the electricc field is I prosed light- that light radiation affected fat cells and it DOES signficantly. But I should have stressed THE technical poer wavelength and faster/slower. BLUE LIGHT is the portion of the spectrum that causes fat loss.This is aplenty strong in Miami in summer solstice especially.Ever see than solstice blue tinge in Key West?
I had to get the technicality of what I proposed.”Same difference”
it is all the same “stuff’ the electromagnetic spectrum,
Here is Feynman , a guy far smarter than ANY of these Taubes bashers.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FjHJ7FmV0M4
Shorter, longer wavelengths , faster slower.
This UV radiation gets the fat cells to open up. : ) Surgery is another removal technique. No inverse fermions or calories mentioned LOL !
Like Urgelt noted, fat cells must be made to DISENGORGE of their lipid content droplets, the McDonald et al types are absuing physics to sound scientific etc.
This post has gotten SO LONG- and I’m not even sure where to respond to a particular comment!
But here are my thoughts in response to some of the comments above.
We have TASTE BUDS for a reason. It’s to taste food (not just to alert us to poison). I believe that we SHOULD enjoy food. We are conditioned by sweet, fatty mother’s milk when we are first born to associate food with love!
I remember a famous tennis player, Ivan Lendl who said that he was so disinterested in food that if he could take all his nutrition via IV he would. That’s SICK! Eating food with our family is a bonding experience. It’s calming (if you don’t have a crazy family). And we use food at all celebrations. There’s nothing wrong with that.
And…. how come so many Hawaiians, Maorians, Mexican farm workers and other groups that live exposing their skin to the sun, are fat? Just asking..
Admittedly, I can relate to Ivan Lendl’s desire to swap eating with taking nutrition intravenously.
(Assuming, of course, we could be 100% sure what we should take, in which forms, and in the right amounts. But, that will never happen.)
It was that same desire that led Rob Reinhart to develop his “Soylent” drink:
https://motherboard.vice.com/en_us/article/539bpd/soylent-how-i-stopped-eating-for-30-days
Matt wrote a post about Rob and Soylent in April 2013.
Rob started a Kickstarter campaign with a $100,000 goal. Instead, people donated $755,000. Obviously, there was a lot of interest in the idea of replacing eating food with meal-replacement drinks. Subsequently, Soylent has received millions in additional funding.
But, I have no interest in the product. In fact, I’m surprised the product is still alive.
Hi Lianda,
I think the reason many Mexicans are fat is due to their modern diet of massive amounts of PUFA, they eat a LOT of fried food, which is highly inflammatory. Same goes for many other native tribal folks, fry bread is cheap, abundant and lethal (oxidizes very quickly).
Sunshine is great for lowering cortisol and boosting the immune system, but eating a diet of nutrient poor inflammatory rancid PUFA laden foods (even though tasty) will undo all the benefits of sunshine.
I also agree that having special food for special occasions is fine and fun, but for me a daily diet of delicious but SIMPLE food suits me better.
I don’t love cooking elaborate meals, it’s a waste of time in my opinion. I have better things to do than spend the whole day in the kitchen.
I guess I lean towards Ivan Lendl’s viewpoint, I just want to get the fuel in me so I can keep doing the activities that I love (more than eating).
What that looks like (in case anyone might be interested):
Fruit and cheese, coffee with collagen and milk, eggs and OJ, beef braunschweiger with fruit and/or cheese, a bar of dark chocolate with milk daily (you know, for magnesium)….I really only cook once a day, dinner usually, which consists of steak or seafood and potatoes or rice.
That may seem like a boring diet to some, but it ALWAYS tastes good to me. Equally important though is that it’s deeply nutritious.
I’m not completely convinced (yet) that vitamin A is a toxin.
I too recently enjoyed a bonding experience with my uber crazy family, but that’s what Vodka is for!
Ivan Lendyl! ( laughs) That is a name I have not heard since I was 5 or6 or 7 LOL ! I remember that dude. he was quite good and faced Boris Becker often. My parents watched with my erelatives.
A lot of this is so specific and detailed and intricate , artistic details ( such as full body exposure and very oftyen and loooong) . Guys like Arnold Schwarzeneggar is a better evaluator than Hall or GUyenet for positive physique changes that could come of it or even gentle taming in a good direction. Ibncreased definition, loss of saddle bags. Of course, Arnie had great genetics PLUS steroids. But a lot of the results must be evaluated by artistic people. many researchers just do not notice minutia. I am sure experience bodybuilders so – they see that delt vein, they see the striations etc. etc. etc.
That Miami sunlight feels just as strong as Puerto Rico tome. Anybody who has bneen to Miami around July 4 on a clear day at 1 p.m will FEEL that radiation STING I am describing. it is soooo pleasant, like a pleasant hurt or sting on my back ( lats) . feels great after comign out of the water. That latuitude can get you soooo dark. i am actually better tinted in Miami than I was in P.R.
There absolutely is an effect with sunlight on fat cells. It may vary in thsoe who are genetically obese. it cannot solve , say, the late Michael Hebranko’s troubles.
To get this effect, I have notcied ,it has to be kind of extreme. You have to be a hardcore sun worshipper with FULL BODY exposure- Haulover Beach. Thatis when I had HUGE benefits. It takes full body exposure to the tuine of 5 to 7 hours most days of the week at latitude 25ish N and onward to equator. The temperate zone is nto good enough. One must have this tropcial level sunlight which is amazingly strong. The regulars at Hualover all have pretty good leanness or it TAMES the propensity. Peopel have different builds. I gto a great effect because I am an ecto/meso Many workers , a lot are genetically obese PLUS they have protective clothing. They are not even in shiort and shorts etc. They have cowboy outfits on. I am talking NAKED EXPOSRE AND FOR LOOOOONG. THIS is what really works .. if it is going to wok one must do THAT.
But somebody who is natuially a bit chubbier could be less os if they did likely. But those with naturally dark sin need more exposure, tropcial level and long. Even so, if they have the genes for obesity, the effect will not be what it is ion me and some others who are non-obese.
I really hope Dr.Light recognizes me for all the workl I put ion. I knew about 23 years ago in 1994-1995. I talked about ALL the time. I really am telling the truth. Butts really do get leaner when exposed to SUNLIGHT LOL !!!!!!!! I get a darker butt than Obama’s face and I am white LOL !!!!! RTopical level sunlight can make a white guy look darker than many Puerto Ricans etc. it is AMAIZNG what sunlight at various special LATITUDES can do. I could never get that dark in New York ever, ever./
I applaud Dr. Friedman because he moves farrrr away from diet. The Blogpshere is far too diet -centric. Other factors are much stronger such as genetics first and formost, immune system,.drugs ( I know many celebs who had cancer treatments who became unrecognizable almost) Guyenet, Krieger all focus on diet Everyday it is another nonsense diet article or Friedman is correct- they are all looking in the werong direction, askign the wrong questions. Eating pleasurable foods can be extremely satisfying and keep one;s mind off of food. In some, yes, it mnay xcause thwem to eat the sh@t out the pizza LOL !!!! But in many it can be a great satisfier. My friends all tell me they could never eat balnd, they would be eating all day.
Food Reward is a dead end/dead horse. Dr O’ Shea is a game changer. Guyenet is not. It is kind of like comparing Steven Weinberg to unaccomplsihed Sagan or Tyson
Yes, many activities human engage in are “rewarding’ includign sleep. That is nto the problem.
But the many versions of overeatign THEME are all played out. We know from true investigation that obesity is a far cry from mere overeating- many obese peopel are not overeationg at all. An din the oens who are, they have ridiculous fat gain , disprortional to what a normal human would gain,. ( if they gained much at all)
People have different bodies. Many women will never look like Pam Anderson in 1995 BayWatch LOL ! And that is totally fine. My LAZIEST neighbor , I mean LAAAAAZY, sleeping to 12 p.m. is SKINNY. My hardest workign neighboir is a woman who walks 1 to 2 hours most datys iof the week rain or snow whatever- she is always walking, yet semi obese,. Size 18 probabaly. i admire her effort though. Only the phony diet gurus prey on people and guive them false hope. Many of these models are naturally skinny ectomorphic women. I do not even remotely see how Kate Moss’ build was attractive. I hope these days she lifts some weights.
We must have research on genes etc. THIN people will bne thin regardless of their diet composition. Those with svere obesity , same difference. These naturally thin Reggie Miller types could have PUFA all day- sure bad fro health- but they would be outwardly lean. believe me, all tyeops of eating have been tried to fatten these people, nothign works.
I think that naked beaches at tropical latiotudes( both key points) are the best observational technique. Full body exposure among regulars who stay for HOURS AND HOURS many days a week ( Thiese details are extremely important to) I hav tested it in this way- full body many days a week and loong 7 hour days. restng and relaxing.
. Of these type I knew ONE who was obese. A suyper hairy bisexual trucker dude LOL !!!! He would constantly hit on me in the water. i took it as a com,pliment but he knew I was not gay and still persisted LOL 1
I also was friednly with this dude named Glen who was a gay dude, respexctfuil to me. Haulover is full of gay guys and I am always a victim of them hitting ion me LOL !!!! They think I look like Ricky Martin ( the 2001 version with short hauir- Matt looks like early 1990’s Ricky LOL ! Lobng hair
Glenn unfortunately had AIDS ( I believe he said or some toehr serious disease hard to terat backl then)) and the next year I saw him he baloooned- he was unrecognizable. Drusg affect physique- food had nothing to do with it. He had a low appetiet always. Glen was skinny in 1996 , extremely bloated and fat in 1997-1998. i sure hope he is still aliove, he was a nice respectful ghuy.
I knwo of very , very few regulars at Haulover who are obese. It really does have a taming effect.
Of the very obese I have seen at Haulover, they were very white tourists. Very white, sun avoiders.
I know that stuff ( defined as something that can act on other thinigs) acts on other stuff. Light, part of the electric field, interacts with matter. The biochemistry and all of that is complicated. Biology is always soooooo complex. fat cell regulation/dysregulation needs A LOT of working out. We know next to nothing. This is why obesity is sooo porly understood and no real treatments exist.
Radiation, while not matter, is stuff, for sure and can and does interact in various ways with humans. Gamma rays from gamma ray bursters would kill us. UV radiation interacts, too.
According to top physicist, Frank Wilzcek, and other notables such as Steven Weinberg:
“Everything ( ALL of nature around us) is *quantum* fields , which often, to an excellent approximation, manifest themselves in individual universes as particles.”
Guys like Nobel prize winner, Dr. Wilzcek, are in the business of cleansing the doors of perception:
Quantum field theory is centeral to- the HEART of physics and never mentioned to the public. Could it be wrong? YES. But it is the most tight model we have, so we have good reason to think this tentatively. All “particles” are just excitations and ripples in these background fields that not only fill all of space but ARE PART of space, what make up space. The electron field, the gluon field, the proton field etc. Feynman even changed his tune later in life and indicated an “all fields view”, as Wilzcek, Weinberg, Deutsch, Schwinger, Rodney Brooks, and many other notables have.
Here is Wilzcel talking about reality of Nature which is MUCH DEEPER than mark Sisson, Kevin Hall and the like will ever know:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JG9hJLXn1ZE
This is FAR betetr science material than you will ever read from Lyle et al.
Enjoy.
The electric field is jiggling, sloshing around with waves of varying lengths.
I genuinelty think that Guyenet, Hall and Lyle McDonald do not understand that heat IS RADIATION, STUFF and can harm us and act.
Heat, infrared etc. we feel. Heat is just part of this electromagnetic FIELD present all throughout sp[ace, comprising space. it can act because it is radiation. Atoms emit light and themrmal radiation if they jiggle fast enough.
X-rays, infrared, microwaves, radiowaves ALL the same “stuff” just different lengths of waves ALL ther SAME basic thing. Shorter longer faster slower waves of this electric field. feynman explains this , I could link it. Feynman was ALOT smarter than me but I consider msyelf much brighter than Guyenet McDonald and Hall
UV radiation has a different effect than heat but both are helping with the fat loss ( too hot we breath deep and faaast).
The blue light DIRECTLY though by a different mechanism,i tis COOL to learn that this UV radiation actually causes the fat cells to OPEN UP. I am glad I knew back in 1994 that this adipose tissue is affected somehow. I hope Dr Light will give me due credit. His “nove;” idea is not novekl because I was rpeaching this for years and there is probabaly even Internet record of it on the various forums I trolled. As Rick Santos on City Data LOL !!!!!!! Even Fighting Arts and BullShido In September 2004 on Bullshido I was talking UV and cabbage pams LOL !!!!
That the bluelight from the sun can impact , directl affect and CAUSE human fat cells to OPEN UP, releasing lipid droplets, disengorging is a topic that the unit abusing calorie/inverse fermion/joule dorks cannot get. In THIS CASE , using up carbon stores has nothing to do with it, the same is true for SURGERY ( but it grows back).
lyle et al simply cannot understand there are SEVERAL WAYS fat cells could DISENGORGE could occur.( They need to stop abusing physics)
Sunlight given adequate frequency, duration, intensity, surgery, or using stored up carbon. NOTHING in physics is “violated” ( does not work that way anayway- nature is under zero obligation to behave the way we proclaim or mandate as all repectable top notch physicists know) by UV radiation acting on fat cells causing them to open- as Lyle M<cDonald would incorrectly claim. His lack of knowledge really shows. Lyle NEVER considers HIS description is NOT the proper description of obesity and fat cell behavior. In fact, it is NOT.
. Look at how humble REAL scientists are here. Here is Dr Kraussand Dr Carroll at the 4: 53 and 2: 30 marks. Even General Relativity we know think IS WRONG, as it is very at odds with quantum mechanics. Carroll has mentioned this a lot. Roger Penrose actually even called QM a half baked theory in a 2009 article.
Listen to how he allows for huge error in what we THINK we know., even about Black Holes, general realtivity and more topcis. Yuo will N-E-E-VER in a million years hear Guyenet do this- whihc is why Krauss is 100 times the scientist he ever was and one million times more accomplished.hell, even the way galaxies are formed now we have different views. Black Holes appear to ANCHOR galaxies. And be crucial to how they even formd. Black Holes may be our real mothers not the sun or even ancient stars. Our views have changed about stars' formation , too, where electromagentism plays a HUGE role. ( We used to think gravity was prety much the only factor)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=
WHOOPS Here is the link:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3DhDSjgw3j8
My main point is that i wa thinking these thoughts about UV radiation and is effect on fat tissue for 23 years, strongly since 1997 and almost everyday since about 2001. it is the essence of my proposals and what I am into- UV, tropciasl vegetation etc. I have been exploiting the effect every summer since 1994. I never once ever heard ANYBODY on the Internet talk of this specific topic, not fiorums, not public, not scientists, not journals. i searched high and low. i am ON RECOD even at ITSTHEWOO commet section as prp[osing UV liht and fat tissue frfom svereal years back 2014? The comment shoudl still be up. The thing is these SAME scientists , had i suggested i have seen this effect over and o0ver in say , back in 2007 I qwould have been DISMISSED. LOL! I sure hope they do not act like this is their novel idea, it is a 23 year old idea. in reality. Thats aid I am HAPPY Dr Light is doing work. his own work is E S S E N T I AL and I support it because it EXPLAINS mechanism and what is happenieng. Cricual as well. The INITIAL (admittedly kind of odd) idea is crucial and the subsequent investigation. Ths boild down to ASKIGN THE RIGHT QUESTIONS . After eyas of observations, the first year over asnd over I said WHAT IF ,. WAHT IF UV affects fat tissue. Tuns out WE HUMANS HAVE FAT CELLR ECEPTORS FOR UV LIGHT. : )) As Dr Light mentions. I KNEW we had some sort of receptor and it great to see fruition. Do not let GUyenet steal this.I will be on his butt if he does.
If you guys Google search ” Fat Tissue is Sensitive To Irridation Science Daily 2009″ that is some of the earliest work I have ever seen. i knew even further that radiation from that study, that it had a direct strong effect on fat tiossue.
I know from :
@My 23 years of real world observations, laboring under intense UV light in winter in Miami ( actually cooler temps),. powerful and consistent results every single time, The trouble I went to was very intensive.
@Dr. Light’s recent work showing fat cell receptors specifically for UV light and an important role, and how this blue light actuaklly opens up fat cells, relasing their lipid droplets, also shrinking them.
@And these various obscure mouse studies on their fat pads that I am on to something that has fgood support – that UV directly affects fat tisue, NOT just heat- which helps via other mechanisms of labored extebnded breathing out carbon atoms. I actually , a few times, was on the verge of heat exhaustion, forgetting to take (my gallon of frozen ice that melts) to the bneach. I “saw stars” that dau and was lightheaded.
in the saummer in Miami you get a DOUBLE WHAMMY” UV affects fat loss PLUS heat added to that, more so than the winter.
I know Stephan Guyenet may talk to Matt and others whom I e-mail and dismiss me privately behind my back and probabaly says negative words about my energy presentation. . The joke is on him, though. HE is the crank. However, the elite physcists DISMISS HIM ( GUyenet) about energy. Stephan guye ( and Lyle) smugly believes I am wrong about energy and calories but this due has not the slightest clue on the topic, most nutritional people and medical doctors do not. Heat is part of the elctromeganetic field- a form of RADIATION. STUFF.
“Calories” are NOT thermal radiation ( which ,as radiation, is stuff) ,nor are calories any way somehow centric to food in particular…., ( ANY unit could be used) as Lyle believes. We assign energy, a number, to thermal radiation or to objects like jets etc. or to gamma ray bursts etc. We could use calories for nuclear exposions if we chose, joules, inverse fermions or any other FITIONAL abstract unit – an invention. Energy, itself , is fictional and abstract mathemnatics.
For INSTANCE, the Hiroshima explosion was akin to the energy of such and such calories. YES, you could use CALORIES EASILY for nuclear explosions. I bet Dr. Hall and Dr. Guynet never thought if that.. I could do the calculation if you’d like. TELL GUyenet LOL !!!!! Nobody mentions this, nobodu thinks fo calories the PROPER WAY- just an ARBITRAY invented unit no different than alllll the tohers. ( Ther is conversions but these units are UNNECESSARY- You could USE ONE ONLY etc. as Feynamn said)
Yes , the explsoion is deadly. The force. The strong nuclear force field is a powerful part of nature, the strongest. Gamma ray radiation, extreme heat and forces can kill humans. Remember, you feel forces- forces are a phenomenon , apert of Nature, and can act. Forces can be deadly Energy is just abstarct number we humans assign to these phenomena for bookeeping, it’s an accounting trick, nothing more.
QFT is the heart of physics. it says ultimatyely that what we see as objetcs are excitations and ripples in these fundamental fields. Fields are actual stuff ( unlike energy) i am not commenitng if QFT is correct. Just accurately representing fields, energy and such. Guyenet does NOT.The public should know this. Topp physcists are on my side, not his. ( about these issues). he shoud move on to other areas- other areas of neurology.
Cold temps help, too. Your body is shivering breathing out those carbon atoms. But UV is a separate issue and DOES affect fat celks Read Dt. Lightxs articles. Radiation causes the shrinkage and disengirgement of lipid droplets.
Somebody needs to tell Alan Aragon, Lyle, James Krieger, Colpo, Guyenet , Hall that calories are not ANY kind of mechanism. Hormones out if whack prevent common techniwues from workung effectively.Hormones affect fat tissue independently of apoetite or eating. Bjt they slso affect eating, they can. But they slso have other effects. That carbon matters kif you are bot Reggie Miller gaha) does not mesn that we can blame Carbon flow us involubtary kargely. I am not part of their clic (or Taubes’) never will be, nor would want to-all egomaniacs. People shiw their true character when others have success. I have done nice things for Taubes, Aragon and Lyle. Krieger always was d2cky with me for no readon. I am smaeter than all ofctjose phony guru oretenders, Betkhan too. No tecognition or co gratulations. None of tgese people understand ibesity. I have thought about UV fat tissue as much as Einy thought about gravity everyday (nit comoaring myself , just in perserverance and intense interest) I assure Dr. Light he was not the first to think tjis up but I do acknowledge his eork explains and is equally impirtant to my first idea
I appreciate your kindness, Carl, and bg, and a few others. : )
Back to retirement
Whoops clique
Miami sunlight is strong and intense enough to cause a SNEEZE REFLEX, it does in me allll the time and others who are suseptible
Some more reasons I know I correctly identified the rigth cause/mechanism ( UV radiation, the bluelight) is not onoly Dr. Light’s study that showed how it affectas fat cells, opens them up, releases droplets and shirnks them as well, is that I cannot get the same effect up north. Thailand natives ( and other tropcial places) who visit the U.S.A. often have complained that Washington D.C., New Jersey, new York etc. are TERRIBLE, SOOO HOT during the summer. Jacksonville is hotter during the summer than Miami. Miami is more tropcial like than jacksonville or Washington D.C. which is the temperate zone and the temperate zone is NOTORIOUS fro blazibng summer tem,ps. I visited relativs in New York summer 1999 as a kid and I walked in 112 degre heat O.M.G. ! and HUMID. I still DID NOT get the effect I get from comfortable low 90’s to 84ish in Miami but all day UV.My observations and Dr. Light show that UV light is its OWN little situation and it is more fo a factor. I am proud of msyelf I identified thisd ( the CORRECT thing- UV) waaay ealry on in 1994, locked down in 1997 and on. But heat does help this along, including Miami. Miami gets hot but those temperate zone places IN SUMMER get blazing. However the SUN does NOT FEEL as strong as Miami’s.
But Miami has far stronger sunlight UV intensity versus just heat. I cannot get as dramatci an efect in Daytona Beach OR Jacksonville Beach as my Miami vacations. Miami ‘s effect happens FAST and strongly, MUCH more than Jacksonville. And jacksonille is far better than New York for this effect. Miami’s UV is stronger than any of those places andits heat is actually LESS in summer. Miami arely gets 100 degrees F whereas those places way up north get HOT in summer and even Nortehrn Florida gets hotter.
UV is one part ( with heat playing an additional supportive role, however I STILL lean out well in Miami ALL DAY UV in WINTER when it is only 70 and I breathe comfortably- one autumn in 2006 I believe, it was 60’s duirign the day ,a cold spell for several days, durign the day , and I STILL leaned ou the same. UV is defitnely the factor -biggest factor versus heat. Immune is another etc. etc. I am just happy an effect was shown by Dr. Light and some 2009 mouse studfies. i knew this UV radiation was penetrating and affecting that fat tissue! Not just UV but INTENSE- that of Miami latitude. basically you know how thigns get waaay different at West Palm beach where the sunl;ight just feels super strong, that is the turnig point area. Tropical zonish sunlight basically Miami on south. This is where the effect is strognest. i still ean out in P.R. too and that is evebn LESS hot than Miami in the summer. More even. 87 78 ir so in summer in PR.R Not these mainland nortehrn HOT temps . Good God is WEashington D.C. hotter than hell in summer O.M.G.!!!!
UV is helpful, too. But it should read ” BLUEWAVE LIGHT.” I meant to say that. Sometimes , I really mean Ultravioletbut reolace UV with bluwave light which is the even bigger effect. I first propsed (from observations) sunlight affects fat cells. I meant the ssme but should have called it blue light. Regardless, what I meant was light, not heat. I used to have the technicalities down when I discussed blue light of Key West with ReptoidHumidian of City-Data in 2010.
Although heat is helpful. I think many of us, even those who stay indoors with no air conditi8nung in summer are lesner a bit. The body jyst seems to know the seasons. No air conditioning in summer would help with leanness. Especially water bloat
Feeling SO grateful for the laughter here! as it has been know to
“cause healing” and “promote feelings of wellness” !!!! :-)
Awesome , BG. Glad to hear.
I just wsnted to give credit where credit is due to Urgelt of YouTube. While I first suggested in 1994 that LIGHT from the sun can cause fat loss under proper intensity (tropical latitude or desert at 25N), duration and frequency, Urgelt first suggested mitochondrial dysfunction is at play with obesity and a strong factor driving it. I do not know ifcthis has been tested or not but if yiu see it, Urgelt said this yesrs ago , the 2007 to 2010 era. I sincerely hope his idea comes to fruition, too.Urgelt is a GREAT mind (although we don’t see eye to eye on basketball, that is not that important. I hate the modern NBA and the players’lack of fundamentals, footwork and AAU bullsh@t which wrecking basketball. Kobe agrees-Kobe, M.J. and Hakeem had better fundamenrals than anybody playing today)
Another idea to consider is this and it is from These people are so much smarter than this “Gang” of bullying Taubes’ bashers ( Hall, Gyenet, Aragon, Carbsane
Namely, the notion of cause and effect is a stroy we humans like to tell. The reality is complex. Physicist W. Daniel Hillis NOTES that i tis TEMPTING to believe our stories of cause and effect. But it gets muddled with biological systems and when we try to use cause and effect to EXPLAIN complex biochemcial pathways.
Peope CYCLE in their physique often times. I saw marilyn Manson the other day in some picture , maybe a few years back and he is noticeably fatter than 1998. I am not blaming him at all- just an aobservation. People’s bodies TRUN on them. It HAPPENS Aragon is not willing to accept the evidence of reality, sadly.
This universe is so mysterious.REAL investigators liek Feynman REVELED IN IT. he LOVED the weird observations that do NOT fix common lore. I love it, too. taubes brought the observations up that do NOT fit and he gets blasted for it. ( I do understand he in love with insulin as the only cause too much whihc ignores the prime importance of ummnu system, genetic, hormones )
“It makes ALOT of sense that our body fat is under the control of sunlight to a pretty strong extent”, said some scientists who know of Dr. Light’s work . I am happy I had the original suggestion that LIGHT from the sun AFFECTS fat cells. They congratulated me. I really DID EARN this. My effort was Einsteinian. I really searched thius topic soooo hard, hundreds of e-mails, time , effort, and personal fiedl experiments, observations.
It DOES for sure AND To a pretty good degree, it certainly puts the finishing touches on physiques
What have these gurus like Lyle, Aragon or Guyenet EVER done for further ouor understanding of obesity one PICOMETER better? NOTHING. ALL THEY DO IS BULLY PEOPLE. Matt was a victim of Lyle’s rudeness AS WAS I.I was actually a vicimt of Krieger, Lyle, Nikoley, Fell, Colpo, carbsane. i was never eman to any of them FIRST. EVER. The more one’s point is strong, the more people will hate you etc.
Most of carbsane et al salesmen , one is a crusty curmudgeon a@@hole ( Kinbrun) a few others third rate or worse “researchers.” It is such a shame their physics literate audiences will not challenge them.
I have all the e-mails from the best of the best proving the aforementioned individuals are scammers abusing physics for PROFIT.
THIS is the real intellectual topics you will NEVER find at Aragon’s, Krieger, Hale’s Nigel Kinbrum’s or CarbSane et al’s sites. They are total clowns not worth discussing. I would argue there are very, very , very few scientists living today who are of FEYNMAN’s caliber.
Here is a discussin Feynman had with Hoyle. you can see what a deep imagination and curiousity Feynman had- one of the BEST thinkers in history especially in topics of science: Lisdten at the 27 minute mark. GREAT discussion
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n9KeIXhj62U
The POMP AND CIRCUMSTANCE of Alan Aragn and his nice guy phony persona SCHTICK is ridiculous. Physicsts DOUBNT these days if fundamental laws or principles EVEN exist…. Why deos Aragon continue to IMPOSE HIS strawman mandates UPON NATURE? NATURE CAN DO WHATEVER it wants. One day, a phenom happens WE MUST figure out. it does not fit the pattern so to speak, like Feynman noted.LOOK UP VICTOR STENGER AND MISCONCEPTIONS about “laws of physics” ARAGON IS THE WORST OFFENDER , with Lyle in MISREPRESENTING laws of physcis entire.
WHOOPS. Here it is . 27 minute mark to hear feynman’s ideas:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GNhlNSLQAFE
REAl scientists know that what our invention called “science” really does, is show us our PROFUNDITY of deep ignorance , not promise results or solutions as often claimed by popularizers. HUGE problems result as we learn more. It can be overwhelming.
We keep on ruling out explanations over and over and what we are left with is a very crude approximation of Nature at BEST. OUR BEST physics frameworks ,models, theories priciples ( QFT) are crude approximations at very best. Physicists WANT TO REWRITE quantum theory FROM SRATCH!!!!!
That is a SOBERING thought, huh? We THOUGHT it was right.
Where the hell do Aragon and Guyenet GET OFF claming what is possible and such, with obese people and MISREPRESENTING principles to defend their views, wrongly representing “laws” as “immutable” LOL ! Laughable! These are CON ARTISTS. Urgelt warned me NOT to deal with these types of people EVER. They will be unethical, take it
into the dirt etc.
There is more than enough evience to declare the claoric model DEAD. Why is it still promoted? because the diet indutsry want BIG BUCKS, people to fail and come back fro more , another butt pounding LOL !!!!!
That out best models are in major questions is not inform,ation that Aragon et al understands. Urgelt does. He explained that to me a long time ago. Urgelt is the SMARTEST person ( out of any non- top physicist) I have ever come across on the Internet.
Aragon et al need to learn that , as NEILS BOHR emphasized ” Physics is WHAT WE ( humans) say about Nature, NOT what Nature says!:
These gurus ( like IGNORANT SNOBS) disbelieve obese people based on their OWN FAILINGS and misapplication and misuse of physics. That is utterly disgraceful. Physicists currently woud like to re-write quantum mechanics. There is so much progress going on.
Has Aragon ever considered a quantum PHASE TRANSITION that could wipe out our universe with a NEW ONE TOMORROW- ANY TIME-, with different principles, like when watery slippery rain freezes over to ice , or if you stick a water botle in the freezer. That is a phase transition- ( that effect) We THINK these happened before. It can happen ( in principle at least and we THINK it corrued after the Big Explansion or Big Bang) to the fabric of the universe, space. SOME prose the Big Bang ITSELF was a quantum phase transition.
Physcists hae come to learn the pricnipls of physcis are ARBITRARY, ACCIDENTS. Nothing special or fundamental.
REAL GENUIS:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j_hex41PGjs
Artagon and Lyle’s SMUG ABUSE of physcis shold be shuit down IMMEDIATELY with THIS video. They’ve been dominating the Internet for farrr too long SCAMMING naive people.
I would NEVER pay $500 for a
“BRO-LANDO EXPERIENCE” LOL!!!! I’d liek to meet the sucker wh PAID that insane price !
I just wish Aragon et al. would actually use their brains. They habe no “debate” with Taubes. At least not the subject they are debating. It is a non-issue. Challenge Aragon to explain onesity WITHOUT EBER USING tje word energy. He can’t. He js PRETENDING to umderstand. I, Razzi, ADMIT I do not understand obesity, NO scientist does. I just recognize ohony explanations like Guyemet’s . If ine cannot explain a phenomena withoit invoking “energy” they do not u derstand themgiven subject. It just so haooens Aragon cannot explain onesity without invoking energy PLUS it happens not to be umderstood. He is not helping anything constantky saying the energy word . It ks nit a mechanism. THIS IS TABJES WHOLE POINT-ENERGY IS NOT ANY EXOLANATIIN OR MECHANISM. ENERGY BALANDE IS BULLSH@T fitness i dustry expressiin
Calories, joules, ergs, inberse fermions do not exist, do not act. Aragon gets the mechanism of fat gain entirely wrong. I know many out tjere cannot grasp this. What we have are atoms, matter, moving and jiggling bumping into others making them move. Energy is a number we measure. A fiction. We use equally made up fictitious units. We have sooo many needlessly, like Feynman lamented. Calories are but one unimportant made up arbitrary invention…. They really do not exist. Energy, itself, is NOT A N Y T H I N G. Forces, tension, motion are NOT energy.Those are phenomena. Energy is NOT, It is just a NUMBER that can be very useful in calculations, equatioms.Carbon atoms like to be next to oxygen atoms and when you get them close enough, oxygen atoms “snap in” (Feynman) you can start a fire. You habe chaos. THINK INTERMS OF ATOMS IN MOTION BUMPING . I HOPE PEOPLE CAN SEE NOW THERE IS NOMSUCH ENTITY AS CALORIES. Calories do NOT deposit fat on yoir body. Carbon can and genetics, hormonal state can. Fat cell creation is a deliberate (not passive) involuntary processes determine this. Many results can occur from overeating food-carbon.There are some people very good at having their food shuttked to muscle tissue instead of fat tissue. They hit the lottery so to speak. Whenever you hear “energy” always replace it with abstract mathematical fictiinal charteristic.
Food (stuff, atoms) that is rich in carbon is going to produce a BIG flame when set on fire, which in turn causes the container to heat uo, which in turn causes the water to heat up, all those atoms bumping up transfering their motion/forces to others.Ever watch a line of people falling like dominos? If one guy is pushed and then he causes all the others to fall.Not the best analogy but you get it. Atoms are “ELASTIC”, said Feynman.
Atoms radiate when they jiggle. “Energy” is a human invented fiction, a number for our convenience. We say energy DUE to motion. We assign a number value to objects moving fast.
IMPORTANT : @@@@ There is no such entity and energy does NOT cause or make atoms jiggle or move. It cannot act on stuff (bodies) as an invented abstract mathematical fiction. @@@@
It is soooo obvious severe obesity is a genuine terrible dysregulation. Only poop for brains people could possibly think it is a morality situation. These people are trapped in a fat suit, with fat in every nook and cranny. I have closely observed these people even at Disney World etc. Fat cells are hoarding.Run amok. Gone awry.
If Alan is to have validity criticizing Taubes, he must present real issues. Or creatively posit new ideas.
I have never seen anyone mention CARBON ATOMS, which is really one of the huge players we are dealing with here in reality, acting on stuff. When you simply BREATHE IN, YOU GAIN MATTER-those atoms(small of course). Then you breathe out and lose sliiiiightly more. With water, healthy people can excrete those atoms. But water causes matter gain-it has no carbon, so no material for fat. 7f somebody ate 10,000 calories THEN THEY ATE HUGE amount of C A R B O N. THAT IS WHAT ACTED, the CARBON-STUFF, MATTER REAL ENTITY in Nature…. Calories do not exist and do NOT act. They are only an indirect related to carbon atoms.
Razwell,
With all due respect, I think more people might respond to your ramblings if you’d get out the spell-check or at least take 60 seconds to proof-read your comments.
Your NUMEROUS misspellings make you look like you’re not exactly very healthy, when who knows…maybe you are? But they also make your posts next to impossible to read, so in that regard, you’re just wasting your own valuable time.
Again, I mean no disrespect, but most of your posts are incomprehensible and all over the map.
Or, as you’d say: Mobt of you post sare icomprehiTaunes amd all over the max.
Marcia,
With all due respect, I think someone needs to locate the down arrow key on the keyboard, or how to finger swipe up to scroll on by.
The topic is The OMAD Diet and various dieting ventures, adventures, experiences, experiments, discussion of fictional calories, how we expend energy…do we expend energy?
Again, I mean no disrespect, but of the over 1000 posts from a few dozen of the same forum members, we are well aware that once we hit the enter key, we can’t correct our mistakes. Yet our posts are still readable.
I have yet to find anyone’s posts unreadable. Because it’s truly content and context that is important.
So, thank you for taking your valuable time to make your first post OFF TOPIC. It is so refreshing.
We are waiting (some impatiently) for Matt to compose his newest topic of discussion.
Marcia,
I, for one, have learned a lot from Razwell about the non-existence of calories and the role carbon plays in health. I enjoy his posts. You can always skip them if you don’t.
Are you the same Marcia that launched an attack on Joel Brind a few months ago? I enjoyed his posts about the importance of glycine too. At least I learned something from both Razwell and Joel.
With all due respect, maybe people would respond to your posts if you offered respectful, dissenting views rather than attacks.
I believe Razwell must be a bit on the spectrum. The OCD with Stephan, Anthony and others that he mentions is a bit obsessive. With that said, he makes interesting posts! Just skip him if you don’t care to read, no biggy.
Just so you guys know, documented record of the racket Guyenet amd Aragon run. My GREAT INFO FROM TOP PHYSICISTS is direct threat to their fraudulent business models. Taubes’ points are as well whxih is why Aragon hates Taunes so much.
@Aragon could not take the HEAT so he BLOCKED my ability to comment on his Instagram. I HABE LONG HELD THE IMFO FROM GENUISES TO TAKE ARAGON APART. HIS TACTIC IS SILENCE ME FROM EDUCATING HIS HAPLESS physics illiterate VICTIMS.
I am the only one who STOOD UP TO THIS INTELLECTUALLY DEFICIENT GUY AND WON. THESE PEOOLE ARE FRAUDS. LRESENT A STRING ARGUMENT FROM PHYSICISTS AND ARAGON FOLDS LIKE A CHAIR. HE IS NOT WORTH MY TIME, NOR IS HALE OR CARBSANE.
Argaon, Hale, Krieger, CarbSane habe ALWAYS been BULLIES capitalizing on green victims, acting “reputable”.
Aragon’s nice guy persona is fake, he is a subtle egommanic bully. A HUUUGE EGO.
He bullied Taubes at the debate. He did not even remoteky win that, only in his head…..Aragon spams “studies”. He has no proper argumemtation or ability to see subjects in PRINCIPLE. Taubes, like Feynman, memtiins all the pieces that do NOT FIT.This BOTHERS “TRUE BELIEVERS” in calories….. honesrlu, it ks a CULT. SCORES of imdustry people not u derstanding that calories are no different from any other invented arbitrary unit. WE XOULD USE CALORIES FOR HIROSHIMA CALCULATIONS. It is not energy that harms you in these nuclear devices, it is heat, radiation and FORCE.
There has never been proper discussion of onesity around CarbSanexs crew…. I am really thinking of starting a blog to take down these scammers, expose them for the b.s. frauds they are.
ISSUE THEM THE The Feynman Challenge . Demand they explain onesity WITHOUT EVER mentioning energy as a cause or mechanism or even nringing it up.
Well, it truly is retirement time, guys.
Just PLEASE link Nigel Kinbrum, Alan Aragon, Lyle McDonald, Anthony Colpo, Jamie Hale, James Fell, Richard Nikoley, CarbSane and Kevin Hall ( AND THEIR HAPLESS VICTIMS) to THESE COMMENTS.
They like to HIDE this information from
top physicists from their HAPLESS audiences. They are all running a racket. Their message us all tied up in SALES. With regard to this “energy balance’ phony explanation- the physicsts ( including Weinberg, Gross and Feynman) are on GARY TAUBES’ SIDE AND MINE- NOT Carbsane et al’s. Very important point.YOU can Google how Weinberg states thermodynamcis is NEVER, EVER rthe EXPLANATION for ANY phenomena. You always must ask IF it applies and WHY as well.
Insulin is a hormone, real stuff, CAN act. Carbon is stuff, too. A factor. And oevreating can thweart one;s body. Sure. But any serious scientist knows obesity, true obesity is NOT mere overeating- EVEN when they do overeat ( many obese peopel are NOT overeating- but some are) Regardless, there is a DISPROPORTIONATE gain. It’s a mystery. A clogging of the system like a stopcock with plumbing- some scientist made this analogy. Even Guyenet ONCE WAY BACK used the term CLOG.
Insulin ( stuff, matter, ) is not the only thing that acts, but it is important. Perhaps there are even more important hormones but there certain ae other hormones in concert with it. We have not even identified all the explanations with hormones and genetics.
If understanding obesity were a Marathon, we’d ONLY be at the 400 meter mark and crawling.
DO NOT LET Aragon deny this!!!!!!. Taking down these physics abusing for profit con men has been my passion for 10 years. Argn is IHIBITING REAL LEARNING and he has the BALLS to insult Taubes?????
DO NOT LET these CON ARTIST BULLIES abuse “energy” topic ANYMORE! YOU ALWAYS HAVE MY INFORMATION SPREAD THROUGHOUT THE INTERNET. Energy ( abstract mathematical fictional charcteristic we humasn invent and assign to objects for convenience, bookeeping- accounting tricks) )does NOT make the child’s toy move’ as FEYNMAN STRESSED to science teahcers around the United States. Googlesearch this phrase: ” Feynman Wakalixies What Is Science?” MAKE USE OF IT TO DO BATTLE WITH THE PHONY GURUS.
Until we meet again in a far distant future on some distant planet orbited by a red glowing star, LOL !!!!
Razzi
* I meant to say , “Until we meet again , in a far distant future, on some remote planet which orbits a 2 trillion year old faintly red star.” LOL!
P.S. The Big Bang was very likely NOT the start of it all. No serious scientist claims it was. Penrose, Carroll, Guth-all of them have to fight the misinformation of hokey, incompetent science popularizers like Sagan, Nye, Tyson -all self promoters with agendas who mislead the public. Guth is an honest guy.
Take care,
Razzleton
Getting late into this MOFO of a discussion, but the “3 square meals a day” thing is as much the result of a health diet fad as anything else. The reason people need to be told that breakfast is the most important meal of the day is that its the meal few people actually like to eat unless its a holiday hotel breakfast buffet. There is a “health unicorn” with regards to diet and its called listening to your body and eating what you are craving when you are craving it, and neither more nor less.
A lot of people recovering from eating disorders and restrictive diets get into trouble with philosophies such as Matt Stone, Ray Peat or Youreatopia because they encourage a different kind of neurosis and people become so afraid of undereating or wrecking their metabolism that they essentially tune out their instinctive hunger signals. Especially Youreatopia is extreme in teaching that any kind of discomfort or negative mood associated with an empty stomach should be avoided and so encourage destructive emotional eating habits where you eat just to avoid feeling bad rather than because you actually crave food, this will lead to problems down the line as you’re not dealing with your emotions that cause deterioration of both mental and physical health, and also become increasingly disconnected from intuitive hunger signals.
For many people true intuitive eating would comprise skipping breakfast as they do not have an appetite in the morning and fasting or very light eating is what they naturally feel like doing. France and Italy are known in Europe for good health and low rates of hypothyroidism, and in both cultures breakfast is hardly a thing at all, most italians have nothing but coffee in the morning.
Having been on a Matt Stone style “Eat for heat” diet for the past 3 years where I did little exercise, had no dietary restrictions and always erred on the side of eating too much rather than too little, I cannot say the results were that spectacular – progressive weight gain, worsened appetite, worsened caffeine tolerance, increasing depression and fatigue, and low-grade hypothyroidism with slowly thinning eyebrows.
Starting with some exercise and getting over my fear of being hungry, especially my fear of negative emotions connected with not having a full stomach, was crucial in starting to turn my health around. I still eat some breakfast, but never more than I’m actually craving on an instinctive level.
Matt, haven’t seen a photo in a while, but did you have any luck lately in reversing your eyebrow hair thinning that seems to have been progressing since the start of 180 degree blog?
“There is a ?health unicorn? with regards to diet and its called listening to your body and eating what you are craving when you are craving it, and neither more nor less.”
Hello, Collden:
As I noted in a different post, the idea of eating what one craves sounds reasonable.
But, don’t most of us crave items that taste good, only because that’s what we’ve always eaten?
For example, I’d never crave a doughnut, if I’d never eaten one in the first place. Of course, I’ve never had eggplant, so I don’t crave that, either.
Do you think humans have innate cravings for certain foods? Or, are all tastes learned?
Congratulations on being able to turn-around your health. Are there any foods you emphasize or restrict? Or, is everything on the menu?
Wishing you continued success!
Carl
Italy has one of the highest childhood obesity rates in the world. There is one Blue Zone in there, Sardinia, and they eat breakfast. France is still holding but slowly slipping. If you eat a 4000 calorie dinner right before bed then yeah, you won’t be hungry for breakfast. Also, when you wake up, you have high levels of adrenaline and cortisol, which are appetite suppressants. This doesn’t mean that skipping breakfast is “natural”. I’ve skipped it all my life and I’m morbidly obese, so so much for “intermittent fasting”…
Matt has made it clear that refeeding isn’t supposed to go on forever. Youreatopia is strictly for people with clinically diagnosed eating disorders. It’s not general advice to find your WOE.
Children might need breakfast more, they’re also less inclined to skip it, but I’m not sure what italian children’s breakfast habits are compared to other countries. Italy has one of the lowest adult obesity rates in the world, but the point is rather about hypothyroidism and that is notoriously low in both italy and france. I’m not saying skipping breakfast will make you slim and healthy, but it also won’t make you fat and sick. The point is to go by what you personally feel like doing, honor your hunger signals. Obesity and sickness is not caused by any particular diet or eating pattern, so just stop worrying about it and try to just do what your body tells you to do.
I had two hilarious things I wanted to add to the conversation:
1) I stopped making videos of myself on YouTube for a reason. Today I keep looking at my fucking eyebrows every time I look in a mirror, paranoid about them!
2) One thing that I find prevents intuitive eating is having a girlfriend. I mean, we ate at Olive Garden today. The fucking OLIVE GARDEN. Did I want to eat there? Hell no! I’m ashamed to even admit ingesting food from there. I went in with a hoodie and dark sunglasses and looked at the floor the whole time to make sure no one recognized me! Having a girlfriend means you are intuitively eating whatever SHE wants to eat 100% of the time! haha
Matt — are you saying she ordered your meal? lol
Carl — we’re getting close to the 1,000th comment. Get on your mark :)
I’m ready,turtlegurl!
I have a team monitoring the comment count around-the-clock. If necessary, they will wake me in the middle of the night, pull me from the shower, or even interrupt me on the toilet.
I’m hoping Matt will honor my achievement by making some French toast for me.
(This comment will be #984!)
I’m super pumped about comment #1000. It’s a huge milestone. I just worry Razwell will swoop in and steal the honor with his rapidfire commenting. He’s got Lazlo Hollyfeld odds at winning some french toast due to sheer number of entries.
Carl — I like the team notification plan, but that route might be too slow when seconds count. Better to keep a laptop within 2 feet of you at all times, always booted up and on this page. This means taking it with you into the bathroom — and wearing it on a cord around your neck at all other times. Otherwise, the risk of missing being Comment #1,000 is too great. Same with sleep: too risky right now. You can do this, Carl! We’re all behind you.
And yes, I hope Matt makes you French Toast, too — or toast from any other country. And you can say part of that previous prayer: “Matt Stone prepareth a table before me. He annointeth my French Toast with syrup. My plate runneth over. Ramen.”
That comment proves you’re a Real Genius.
lol when I’m at a restaurant like that I just say “when in Rome…” and go all out.
I don’t know about eyebrow thinning. Haven’t seen any of that.
But you’re probably right about the undereating phobia. It’s good medicine for chronic undereaters and those with a low metabolism, but it’s probably a disservice to most to keep it up for years. And certainly a disservice to combine that with fear of exercise, which I don’t condone at all. I’ve said many times that the recipe for ultimate vitality is to “Play hard, eat hard, sleep hard.” Generally in that order. I know this well, as I grew up in an area where obesity doesn’t exist. Everyone is obsessed with outdoor activity and hardly thinks about what they eat, consuming mostly burritos, pizza, burgers, and beer.
Paul Chek was right about overly nutrition-focused people being a bunch of sick mofos.
Matt speaking of exercise, I was re-reading “Eat for Heat” and in it you said you were working on a book (or maybe just a post?) on exercise, that you were experimenting and trying to find a minimum effective dose type of routine. Any news on that front?
No, I don’t think that’s even the right attitude to have about exercise. I’m no longer much of a fan of intense exercise (which what exercise has to be to get any results if you are shooting for minimum quantity). I think the right attitude to have about exercise is that the greatest joys in life are from various physical activities, and one should rearrange their life to maximize the amount of time they can spend doing these activities. Fitness should be a by product of having a great time and going on cool adventures.
Matt- the eyebrow thinning on the outer third is a well known symptom of hypothyroid. I can see it in myself and other women (primarily) who are being treated, or who have low body temperatures. Even my endocrinologist who suffers from hypo has it!
Yes, I know about the eyebrow thinning. I’m saying I don’t have any signs of it.
Hey Carl,
I think you’re right we generally only crave things we’ve been exposed to, though perhaps our brains carry some kind of genetic memory of that allow us to predict that something might be good for us based on smell or appearance, without having tasted it. But I think the appetite system is plastic and develops based on the foods you eat, generally the more foods you’ve exposed yourself to, the more sophisticated and fine-tuned your system of cravings can become to your particular nutritional needs in any given situation.
I eat anything, this is one area where I whole-heartedly agree with Youreatopia – there are no bad foods, only bad-tasting foods. I generally find that the better a given meal “hits the spot”, the better I feel afterwards. I’ve been inundated with Youreatopia/Matt Stone sentiments for a long time though and still sometimes find it difficult to tease apart when an imperative to eat is really an instinctive food craving or just my own anti-anorexia neurosis telling me that I need to wolf down another bowl of cereal to prevent my thyroid from shutting down and my muscles breaking down during the night.
Hi, Collden:
Thanks for the reply. I can definitely relate to having trouble with deciphering instinctive cravings vs. anorexia neurosis!
Funny you mentioned cereal, as I could eat bowl-after-bowl. I don’t even eat the super-sugary ones, anymore. Just Whole Foods’ brand of corn flakes and flax milk. A little sweet with some crunch.
I could eat a couple of boxes per day, but, lately, I’ve been trying to stick with more whole/unrefined foods. After I stick with less sugary/refined foods for a while, I seem to lose the cravings. Then, I’m content to stick with whole fruits.
Really, though, I have no idea who/what is right. I have to think there are consequences to what we eat. But, there are also consequences to constantly thinking about food and worrying about what’s the “right” thing to do. That constant, low-level stress can’t be good.
I’m better than I was a few years ago, but I’m still battling all the conflicting information. It was Low-Carb that started my troubles and Matt’s books and blog that helped interrupt the cycle for me. I never went all the way with the High-Everything Diet, but I was able to stop restricting foods. Now, I’m just trying to figure-out the “right” way to eat. Or, the right way for me, I guess.
Take care and stay well!
Carl
Hi Carl…I just gotta ask, how on earth do you “milk” a flax seed? Just exactly how does “milk” get extracted from such a tiny seed?
And more importantly, WHY would you milk a flax seed?
Really, I’m curious…
I’ll answer two questions in one:
1.) Your question from another comment, regarding the number of comments on this thread. At the top of the page, just under the title “The OMAD Diet,” you will see the date the article was posted, the article categories/tags, and then the number of comments — currently 988, soon to be 989, when I submit this one. Historically, some people like to be the first to post on Matt’s new articles. I happened to make the first comment on this article. And, my aim is to be the 1000th comment, too. No special reason. It’s just something juvenile that I enjoy. :-)
2.) How to milk a flax seed? Well, first, you need to find someone with really tiny hands. Kidding aside, I buy flax milk from Whole Foods Market. But, I’ve made almond milk at home in my Vitamix blender, so I could probably do the same with flax. To make almond milk, I put almonds (soaked overnight, then drained and rinsed) in the blender, added some filtered water, some vanilla extract, and either a little honey or some pitted medjool dates. Blend for 30-45 seconds and then use a nut milk bag to strain the liquid from the pulp. Some people save the pulp and use it in some recipes. But, I don’t save it.
Thanks for asking the questions and allowing me to get closer to the 1,000th comment. ha…
Hmmmm, squeezing a “nut bag”…(now I’m the one being juvenile, ha ha).
Okay, well thanks for enlightening me! Milking nuts sounds rather expensive and time consuming, so I’m assuming there’s some sort of good benefit for you, or perhaps you don’t like regular milk…like from a cow, or a goat or a camel.
hahaha… You’re my kind of gal — just like my not-so-secret crush turtlegurl.
Yes, I squeeze my bag to milk the liquid from my nuts. That, of course, comes after soaking my nuts overnight and rinsing them. No one wants stagnant nuts.
haha If only I could get paid to write this stuff, I’d be…Matt Stone.
Anyway, the homemade almond milk does take a little effort, but it’s not overly time-intensive. Once my nuts have soaked (there I go again) overnight, I can complete the rest of the process quicker than it takes me to drive to Whole Foods Market, buy a container of almond milk, check-out, and drive home. That’s not bad, considering I live only about one mile from the store.
But, obviously, it’s easier to buy something pre-made, hence my buying flax milk.
You’re right that I don’t care for cow’s milk. I’ve never tried goat milk or camel milk. From what I’ve heard, goat’s milk is supposed to be closer to human milk than other animals. Aside from my no longer liking the taste of milk (I used to drink it), I’m a bit grossed-out by it. But, I do use some Kerrygold butter. Odd, I guess.
I’ve also started having an issue with looking at all the animal foods in the meat section at Whole Foods Market — much of which is sitting in pools of blood. As a kid, we raised animals and I’ve been to slaughterhouses. Now, I have trouble with it, despite knowing there’s a circle of life…that nothing lives without something else dying. That includes plants.
My animal food consumption is pretty much limited to beef, eggs, chicken, and a little butter. Every month or two, I might have a few slices of bacon, but that’s about it for pork. For 45+ years, I ate all kinds and quantities of animal foods. For the last several years, though, things are different. It was easier to be food-neutral, but I’m not sure that was the right path, either. No matter the course I take, it seems like a minefield.
Back to almond/nut milk, should you decide to try it, here’s a short video on how to do it.
How-To Make Almond Milk
https://youtu.be/WeZCMNB2YO0
Matt, what’s your current opinion on starch vs simple sugar? Seems like the Ray Peat community claims starch stimulates more insulin secretion (+wears out the pancreas) and causes endotoxin in the gut. Though I believe both starch and simple sugar are good, I end up eating more starches since the staple is white rice, and trying to swap that with equivalent amount of simple sugar sounds too overwhelming.
@T.J. I wouldn’t take Ray Peat that seriously. He says different things on the same topic in different posts and interviews, constantly contradicting himself, and people still take him seriously somehow. Just as he bans fiber but tells you to eat raw carrot every day lol, he bans starch but he recommends masa harina pancakes (traditionally treated corn flour), and in some posts he’s OK’d white rice and even oatmeal. I think he’s just a rambling old man at this point. And starch wears out the pancreas, but a jug of OJ followed by a jug of milk with added white sugar in it doesn’t tire out the pancreas? Just…. I can’t..
@Skeptic,
Earlier, I watched the following TEDx video and thought of our miscellaneous conversations:
Eran Segal – What Is The Best Diet For Humans?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0z03xkwFbw4
Great video Carl, thanks for sharing!
And CONGRATS on posting the 1000th comment. I guess now you can delight your taste buds with french toast dripping in syrup….which according to your second link is strictly OFF LIMITS, since it’s wheat flour and sugar. ;-)
Thanks, Magic Maker. :-)
And, yes, regarding french toast dripping in syrup, I’m always conflicted. Should I worry excessively about it for a long time and then decide not to eat it? Or, should I just go ahead and eat it and then excessively worry about it after-the-fact?
Decisions, decisions. haha…
Hi Carl,
Even though we don’t know each other in real life, I feel a certain kinship. So many times, I see myself reflected in your refreshingly honest comments. I can totally relate (daily) to the struggle you mention here….However, I’m not sure if you’re aware that you may be (most likely are) suffering from a real eating disorder. Yes, Carl, actually it’s a very serious SYNDROME.
It pains me to be first to tell you, but I truly feel we can be open, honest and help each other out…Your condition is real, it’s called Food Unresolved Conflict Conundrum-Yeilding Excessive Worry Syndrome, or FUCC-YEWS. Because no matter what, if you eat the french toast swimming in syrup or NOT, yer f*cked either way.
Ha ha.
Well, I tried.
Haha. Nice Magic Maker. I was really buying into what you were saying until I got to the acronym. Got a little taste of my own medicine there!
Dammit, Magic Maker, you totally got me on that one!
You set a perfect trap with that lovely opening (which, if true, I sincerely appreciate), I happily took the bait, and you completely fooled me!
Bravo! Well-done!
That was my lame attempt to poke fun at all the silliness surrounding food issues. Sometimes I wish I would’ve never taken an interest in health/nutrition/human physiology. Unfortunately I find it fascinating and I have no one to share this hobby with in my day to day existence.
I talk about diet and health related things I’ve read waaaay too often. Last week my son threatened to buy me a T-shirt that reads: KEEP TALKING, I’M DIAGNOSING YOU, lol.
But in all seriousness Carl, I meant every single word in the first paragraph right up to the ellipsis. I thoroughly enjoy your comments and shared links and identify with every single thing you write. Well, except the nut bag squeezing. I don’t do that.
It wasn’t lame at all, Magic Maker! It was funny and well-done. I mean, hell, you even had Matt going — the master himself. :)
Like you, I don’t really have anyone to discuss this stuff in real life, either. It’s become quite a preoccupation of mine. Fortunately or unfortunately, depending on the day.
The T-shirt caption “KEEP TALKING, I?M DIAGNOSING YOU” is brilliant! Not being sure if that was real or a joke, I just Googled it and see such shirts actually exist. That would be fitting for me, too, so to speak.
Thank you for your very kind sentiments. From your ellipsis to my ears, it means a great deal. Likewise, I enjoy your writing, wit, and learning from your health-related studies and experiences.
Sincerely,
Carl
Hi Carl,
Yes, the T-shirt is real!
My youngest son has a new girlfriend and he wanted me to meet her for the first time. It also happened to be his birthday, so I offered to take them out to a nice dinner since we had much to celebrate.
Naturally he jumped at the offer of a FREE meal, but he made me promise that I wouldn’t talk about food choices in front of his new girlfriend, especially the evils of wheat and PUFA. And NO talk of hypothyroidism either!
He texted me a screenshot of that T-shirt from his phone along with the admonition NOT to embarrass him, lol.
I figure I must not be alone in my neurosis if there’s a market for shirts like that.
Let’s start a club! I know where we can get T-shirts with a motto…
This article, too:
The Intuitive Eating Lie: Why Intuitive Eating Won’t Help You
https://rebootedbody.com/intuitive-eating-lie
Great article Carl. It started out great and I had high hopes for it but it soon went to sh*t (don’t they all?). First of all he takes too goddamn long to get to the point, and when he busted out the “it’s not WEIGHT loss that matters, it’s FAT loss”, my eyes rolled so far to the back of my head that I thought I was having a stroke. Like yeah, no sh*t Sherlock. This old chestnut surely deserves to be venerated in the pantheon of other useless nutrition one-liners, such as the “It’s not CALORIES it’s CARBON” and “break-fast means BREAKING the FAST, so technically the first meal you eat at any time is your BREAK-FAST!!!!!!11” God nutrition science is such a failed science. Can you tell I’m dead inside from reading this sh*t for a decade?
Half his beef with intuitive eating seems to be that it clashes with his (current) magic protocol: intermittent fasting, because you have to ignore hunger to do IF. And I’m sure you’ll be shocked that he’s low carb, high protein and fat.
Other than that he’s right about high reward foods making you gorge. If he had done his research he would have known that fasting also causes you to gorge (hyperphagia). He also touches on what you’ve been saying, that most “cravings” are really just learned, which I also agree with. Anyway, you can access his advice for the very low price of 197$ (down from 249$!)
Thanks, Skeptic. :)
I truly wished we lived in close proximity, because I think we could have a good time discussing/bashing this stuff in person and exchanging our information and ideas.
Yes, I can tell you’ve had enough of the madness, after your 10+ years of investigation. It’s certainly understandable. In addition to your sardonic wit (which, like turtlegurl, I enjoy), I also appreciate your perspective on things. It’s obvious you have quite a knowledge base of varied information.
Perhaps we should start our own diet, monetize it, and become financially-independent? Maybe an “Intermittent, Low-Carbon, High-UV, Vitamin-A-Cycling” diet. The copywriting would be best left to turtlegurl, given her obvious skills. Buck Flogging could handle the marketing and distribution.
2:30 AM: A random living room, on a sleepless night.
Television voiceover:
“Are you struggling to lose weight? Have you tried every diet without success? Are you ready to give-up? Well, your troubles are over! Introducing ‘The Intermittent, Low-Carbon, High-UV, Vitamin-A-Cycling Diet,’ from SS Nutrition International*. It’s the hottest diet that’s been featured on Dr. Oz and used by A-list celebrities such as Pauly Shore, Carrot Top, and Andrew Dice Clay. Operators are standing-by, so call 800-FAT-SLIM today. But wait, there’s more! If you call in the next 30 minutes, we’ll lower the price to only 60 payments of $29.95 each! That’s a 50% savings! Call 800-FAT-SLIM now! That’s 800-FAT-SLIM. Call now!”
*Skeptic/Spackler Nutrition International, A Subsidiary of Flogging Media, LLC.
I can already smell the money.
That Rebooted Body guy seems angry. I’ve seen him attack people in the comments of his blog. He also got banned from Richard Nikoley’s website for antagonistic remarks. That’s saying something, since the comments on his site can be pretty colorful. Rather than angry, perhaps he’s simply hangry, due to lack of carbs.
Haha. I had to look up the Rebooted Body guy. I laughed when I saw it was Kevin Geary. I have had lengthly debates with him, trying to rescue him from his libertarian views to no avail. I’m pretty sure he’s a Stefan Molyneux worshipping cultural diversity hater. Can’t believe he turned out to be an angry guy!
BTW, I think our informercial number should be 1-800-Fat2Slim
See what I did there? That’s the Flogging magic sauce right there folks.
I’ve always wanted to create a Fatty Acid Deficiency diet called the FAD Diet. Throw in vitamin A depletion and it could be called The VAD FAD Diet.
Although an ultra high-sugar diet called Sweet Abs would be pretty cool too.
You definitely brought the Flogging magic sauce and drizzled it all over everything. It’s like rainbow-colored powdered sugar.
I’ve long enjoyed and envied your writing and marketing skills.
I’d never heard of Stefan Molyneux, so I just watched several minutes of three random YouTube videos on his channel. How charming. Like a rattlesnake.
Did you debate Kevin Geary here on your blog, his blog, or somewhere in real life?
He seems to think he’s figured-out the best answers for a variety of topics and isn’t interested in entertaining alternative viewpoints. Good for him, I guess, for figuring-out all that by 26. From what I recall, that’s the year he started his business. He would currently be 35.
For his own sake, I hope Kevin learns how to be less reactive and more open to considering new ideas.
Just on Facebook. I don’t know why Zuckerberg thinks I need to see everything he says.
I think Kevin at least understands the importance of subjecting oneself to a variety of viewpoints. I think I remember him saying something actually quite wise about how bad it was that Facebook’s algorithm just showed people what they wanted, whittling down their entire existence to an echo chamber of like-mindedness. I agree with that. I’ve always cherished the people who come to 180D and share dissenting viewpoints. Seems like that always leads to something fruitful when both parties are more interested in the truth than being right (extremely rare, but awesome when it happens).
(Infomercial) “Call in the next 10 minutes, and you’ll also get the Forge Georman Grill absolutely free!! It effortlessly adds fatty acids to any meal!!”
Another possible name for the ultra-high sugar diet is Glucose Driven Sweet Ass. But GDSA isn’t a very catchy acronym. I don’t think it’ll sell.
Carl — I sooo relate to your sleep problems. One thing that is at least helping the circadian rhythm part for me is getting sunlight for 10-30 minutes when I wake up — whenever that is. I always thought it had to be the light at sunrise, but apparently, that’s not true. Actually being outside, in any way, is probably best when possible, but sitting by an open window works, too. Don’t know if you’re in the mood for any more videos, but this is a nice one from Ashok Gupta, the guy who does all the work with ME/CFS, MCS, etc.
https://www.facebook.com/guptaprogram/videos/1826594454028502/
Yes, I think the number of hours you spend outside during daylight hours = how sleepy you feel when it gets dark
In a general sense.
I do like Sweet Ass as a book title. Sweet Abs and Sweet Ass could be like a his and hers companion book series. Fuck Kevin Geary, I’m gonna be the next MIKE Geary!
Thanks guys :) the fad diets sound awesome, it’s funny and sad at the same time that you could actually monetize those and bamboozle at least a couple hundred people. The “vitamin A cycling” part was epic lol. It makes perfect sense in the clown world of nutrition. All the cavemen did it, duh.
Matt I’m not surprised about that Kevin Geary guy you mentioned. Lately I’ve noticed a pattern: the lower you go on the carb scale, the more right wing that person is. The zero-carb, hyper-carnivores seem to all be extreme right (the goose-stepping kind). And on the other side, the most militant vegans seem to all be far left, anarcho-communist types. Keep an eye out for this pattern and you guys will start seeing it. It’s an interesting coincidence, or maybe it’s caused by some broader personality traits and dispositions.
I’ve definitely noticed it, and FELT it too. I was much more aggressive and quick to anger and ranting when eating fewer carbs. I joked that when I started eating a ton of carbs I just felt like hugging everyone, lol. But it’s totally true.
The meat heavy, carb-restricted world is definitely very male dominated, and no doubt there is a ton of compassionless worldviews accompanying it.
Then again, Colpo added plenty of carbs and his personality stayed exactly the same after! Fiery as ever. Even hunting down Durianrider and confronting him in person, attacking him physically and calling him a “fucking faggot.” Not exactly a hug!
I’m definitely what most would consider extremely far left, but mostly I’m just an anti-capitalist. I’m not the kind of lefty with an obsession with genitals and calling everyone a racist, lol.
Matt- With my focus on stress, I’m wondering if there’s an effect from eating the meat of factory farmed animals who are undoubtably suffering? I assume that their meat is higher in cortisol from the misery of their lives.
Do you think that would be part of the reason that people who eat so much of this type of meat are more aggressive?
I don’t think it’s from their miserable lives. When slaughtered an animal is always going to have a huge surge of adrenaline and cortisol flood their tissues right before the moment they expire. Some vegans, like Durianrider, repeat rhetoric about this frequently. I don’t know what validity it has, if any, in terms of its effects on humans.
It NEVER was a FICTITIOUS INVENTION that was important (contrary to Lyle et al, the various units that was impirtant. You do NOT EVER have to know the calories you eat. IF you wished to track as a guidekine TRACK CARBON GRAMS. THIS IS from physicisrs. Bloggerland just cannot grasp that calories are ENTIRELY fictiobal, NOT some nebulous invisibke stuff like radiowaves, whuch ARE really there. McDonald cannot understand that. Fat loss is what is impirtant . Weight is a force, medium dependent, locarion dependent, it says nada about bodily comp.. Mere weight loss is nothing to celebrate.
Carbon is one the most important atoms. And our fictional calories are only INDIRECTLY related. When we meadure energy, we meadure a NUMBER. When we measure , say, the size of an atom , we are measuring actual STUFF, constituent of Nature. That is the difference. Forget calories. Inow how many CARBON GRAMS you eat. Stullk yhe body will involuntarily regulate this better over a kong tkme than we could
lol Colpo punching Durianrider, I forgot about that!
@ Razwell: I’m not disagreeing that carbon instead of calories and fat loss instead of weight loss aren’t scientifically accurate statements. I’m saying they amount to little more than a name change that doesn’t advance our knowledge at all, especially where it’s most needed: actionable steps that will lead to fat loss.
Hey T.J,
I have one big advice; TRUST your instincts. Honestly, I do admire Ray Peat for the efforts he puts into his researches. Probably his opinions on excessive PUFA, “essential” amino acids and additives on our general health is credible, but unfortunately some claims he made seems very confusing. Starch vs simple sugar is a great example of that regarding his advocacy on glucose. Now, it makes quite a sense that a simple sugar is “kind of” superior to starch since it doesn’t require the breakdown of glycosidic bonds, but ultimately you are the one who decides your diet, not Peat.
Personally, a mixture of simple sugar and starch works the best for me with an emphasis on starch. I’d say 2/3 of the carbs I eat come from starches while the rest is simple sugar. Both of them have some pros/cons (sugar helps with digestion while starch is filling in my opinion), so the 2nd advice I can give you is to play around with it, while maybe lowering fat and getting protein “intuitively” if you know what I mean.
best,
Juan
Hi TJ…I’m not Matt, but I’ll share my personal experience based on years of testing. For context, I am a 52 year old female with a past history of obesity/metabolic issues.
Starch from plain white rice does cause a blood sugar spike which can be tempered a bit if I eat it with a LOT of fat, but rice doesn’t cause the endotoxin issue that a baked potato does. However, I’ll be hungry again soon enough after eating rice.
Baby creamer potatoes (pressure cooked with LOTS of fat) are much less of an endotoxin issue than a baked russet. Potatoes in general have way more nutrition than white rice.
Fruit sugar (orange juice) doesn’t raise my blood sugar nearly as much, I guess this is due to fructose molecules. I test with a glucose monitor.
Simple sugar, like table sugar has no nutrients and most likely will cause a need for extra B vitamins, potassium and magnesium in the long run.
My sons (in their 20’s) can eat mounds of white rice and/or potatoes and/or simple sugars with reckless abandon. They certainly make good use of and need the extra calories, even though some of their intake is fairly devoid of nutrients.
Potatoes, if you digest them well, are filling and nutritious and starches in general promote satiety.
Your mileage will certainly vary depending on your age, gut health and level of activity, etc.
Post #999
And…
POST #1,000!
Okay, I’m going to bed.
Congrats Carl! You did it!
Thanks, Matt. It was a dream fulfilled. And, of course, I couldn’t have done it without you. You’re the wind beneath my wings. heh…
Carl — congratulations on being #1,000! I see French Toast in your future. You’re probably sleeping now, after keeping vigil.
Matt — congrats on another great article on this F.A.B!
Skeptic — I get a kick out of your irreverent analyses of things (e.g. “dudebros on Facebook with…Mein Kampf quotes.”)
And re: the guy whose site Carl directed you to and being able to access his wisdom for the low, low price of $1,97$: the nausea I feel when reading that is definitely interfering with my intuitive eating. See where I’m going with this? He’s creating a problem that he will then sell us a solution for…
Magic Maker — good for you for trying the Body Ecology diet to improve your gut health. Sorry to hear it didn’t help you more. It does look extremely restrictive and I wonder how people get enough calories on it. I’ve been trying to incorporate more fermented stuff, but that’s as far as I go on that.
BTW, Magic — are you able to make several batches of vegetables on one packet of starter, or were you talking only about kefir?
Thanks, turtlegurl!
As it turned-out, I was up all night and tried to go to bed just before 10:00 AM. I woke about an hour later and tossed-and-turned for a while. Eventually, I fell back asleep for another 60-90 minutes. That was it. My sleep is terrible.
It’s now 12:25 AM and I’m pretty awake, but know I need to go to bed. My days and nights are screwed-up, I’m not getting outside at all, my circadian rhythms are screwed-up, and I can’t seem to break the cycle. Since quitting my job in January, it’s been a slow descent into the crapper.
I’m probably banging my adrenals hard and running on stress hormones.
Okay, I’m going to take a shower, toss some pills down the hatch, and try to get some sleep.
There are no calories, no joules , no inverse fermions. There is ONLY particles ( stuff) and their MOVEMENT. When we REALLY get down to it, there is ONLY FIELDS and their OSCILLATION. : ) This is who we listen tot he radio- OSCILLATIONS of the elctromagnetic FIELD, similar with telephones etc. Nature is doing the work, we just exploit it.
ALL those calorie lab experiments- ONLY OSCILALTING BACKGROUND FIELDS. Energy does not exist, it is a number NOR does it make these particle joggle…..We humans ASSIGN a value, a number to FIELDS.
Cause and effect are STORIES we humasn tell ourselves. it is entiely possible we simply CANNOT understand the universe at deeper levels DUE to the WAY our brians work, how we think, Dr.s Krauiss and Green know this- Neil Tyson and Bill Nye- hokey popularizers cannot grasp that..
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bBfkAuenQJo
Stephan GUyenet SHOULD look into that- he does not, though! He is into neurology. He SHOULD
Alan Aragn CANNOT match wits with me.
Alright, back to Planet Smegma and my 2 trillion year old faint red glowing “sun”. LOL !!!!!LOL !!!!!!
Razwell….Planet Smegma???
Definition of smegma: The secretion of a sebaceous gland; specifically : the cheesy sebaceous matter that collects between the glans penis and the foreskin…
AKA dick cheese…for reals.
Planet Dick Cheese — is that the one they’re replacing Pluto with?
I dunno turtlegurl…
Is Raz saying he hails from Planet Dick Cheese? Or the dickheads he rants about are from PDC???
I’m confused.
Btw, it’s kefir I get multiple batches from. I gave up on culturing veggies several years ago. Love the taste, hate the gas and bloating they cause.
What about Uranus?
Ha ha!
My anus is fine, thanks Carl ;-)
Just checking. I’ve updated my records. :-)
Here is Feynman explaining fire.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N1pIYI5JQLE
There is more info in this video from the genuis FEYNMAN than anything Guyenet or Aragon ever wrote.
Think in terms of atoms and their oscillation. Once you think in terms of atoms jiggling bumping into others, you will see how energy and all these units are not at all any kind of stuff- nor can this fiction act. Calories are one of MANY units, these fictitious inventions measuring some NUMBER we call energy. Both are mathematical fiction.
Once you see energy is a number and that energy does NOT make an atoms move in the first place , NOR make others move, you will see CLEARLY : )
Down another level: Even particles do not really exist, s Sean Carroll notes. Atoms are smooth RIPPLES in these background quantum fields. To the best of human knowledge all of Nature is OSCILLATING FIELDS. ( Fields are objects, STUFF, the COMPRISE Nature- UNLIKE energy, which in only a number we assign to these fields.
Thiose IN THE KNOW can understand that eneergy is a made up BOOKKEEPING/ACCOUNTING TRICK, NOT STUFF. Calores really DO NOT EXIST WHATSOEVER.Peopel susceptible to fat gain are eatign STUFF- FOOOD – C A R B O N .IT IS CARBON, NOT calories that helps make you fatter.
Matt,
What’s wrong with me stealing the honor? I have been a big dupporter for yesrs. It seems nobody can handle the fact that energy and its units are F I C T I O N. OSCILLATING PARTICLES ARE WHAT WE HAVE-ENERGY DID NOT, NOT, NOT MAKE THOSE ATOMS MOVE OR MOVE FASTER,MY INFO IS QUALUTY. I GET NOTHING BUT RESPECT. I ASSURE YOU ARAGON, GUYENET ARE POOP FOR BRAINS. THEY do not understand energy.
I made a big discovery. I knew about light affecti g fat tissue for yesrs. Dr. Light takes it seriously.
I am happy for Carl 100% but I wojld be no less a candidate than any other.
I was just trying to instill some competitive fear in the heart of Carl. :)
Professor Razwell!
Indeed, you’ve contributed far more than I — both in terms of quality and quantity. This is why I continue to enjoy and learn from your comments.
The 1,000th post was just a juvenile thing on my part, since I made the very first post on this particular article. Naturally, it would have made no difference, had I had made the 1,000th post or not. I would have definitely been happy for you to make it!
In the end, I’m just happy that Matt’s blog attracts varied views and that we can all meet to exchange ideas and learn from each other. Thanks to you, I now know that calories are fictional and do not exist! Once fully grasping that concept, down tumbles the dietary house of cards.
Be well, amigo!
Carl
Carl Spackler, I (apparently everyone else) was perfectly content to see you have the 1000th post. Thanks for the fun.
I, too, want to thank you Razwell for enlightening us about the fiction of calories. There are many of us spreading the good news in our haunts on the internet. But occasionally even the die hard resistors will make a 180 degree turnaround.
Knowing this had made my meat and water diet easier to understand and I have no fear; because it’s available/usable nutrients that makes my body/hormones satisfied with what can appear to be a restrictive diet.
Many thanks, AnnB.
I remain intrigued by the information you’ve shared, regarding the meat-and-water eating style. Since your alerting us to the story of Charlene Andersen, I have read much more about the “diet.”
While I don’t feel it’s something I could maintain, I’m delighted that you’ve made such great progress and continue to feel well. I hope your husband finds a plan to benefit him, too, whether it’s meat-and-water or something else.
Best wishes,
Carl
Hi Carl,
You contributed so much. I think equal to me. I am super 100% happy for you. You deserve the honor as much as anybody. I just thought Matt thought I was not as deserving as others (anybody on the forum). I guess it was a miscommunication. I appreciate that Matt told me.
Due to thermal radiation (stuff part of the electric field), hot water and hot air have calories, or inverse fermions or joules. Your pick of these invented useful fictions. LOL.We assign numbers to radiation.
Surgery can remove fat, radiation shrinks tumors, affects them, bluelight from Sun affects fat cells, opens them, shrinks them, it is all about excreting that carbon-those carbon atoms that enter our blood upon digestion.The physical removal of the carbon atoms.
No problem whatsoever that you got it. 100% congratulations. Thanks, Carl and AnnB.
Yours In Morgan Freeman,
Razz
Iced coffee with milk and liquid sugar this morning…..so good.
I ASSURE you, Matt, the physicists DIMISS these GOOBER guru bloggers like Guyenet et al. There isd WIODESP[READ confusion on the topic of “energy.” Energy sui a NUMBER, nothing more. It is NOT stuff, NOR can it act, NOR can its UNITS act…. Enertgy did NOT make a toy move, NOR did it mnake ther atoms of water in the calorie experiments move…. THIS IS LOST on amateurs.Atoms are elastic. Bump into your friend… Watch him move, same type of pricniple. Forces etc. are NOT energy. Nigel KinBUM cannot grasp this I was thwe ONLY guy nice to him during his very public struggle with a relative who had a serious disease.
Guyenet might dismiss me but peoepl far above Guyenet and I dismiss HIM.I don;t know why you ignore my e-mails and why you once said , in 2014 or 2015 that you apprciate my infrmation from physcists?Internet logic makles zero sense. They wet their pants over Guyenet because of his ( easy PH/D./ yety they DISMISS top pbesity scientists as well as top phsycists who are also Ph.D.’s and as Ph. D. in physcis is EXCEEDINGLY difficult despite thatthe study of biological creatures and the human body is even more complciated.
NOBODY can GRASP thT “calories ARE FICTION, they have NO- ZERO existence in Nature. They are our MADE UP fiction. Fields, atoms, rocks etc. are pat of Nature. Energy is BOOKEEPING/ACCOUNRTING TRICK. Think in terms of OSCILLATING PARTICLES. At the deeper levels it is oscillating FIELDS.
Aragon and Guyenet CANNOT match wits with me on the physics topic despie them always throwing around “physics”. Biology may well have DIFFERENT PRINCIPLES
I get so much DISRESPECT for provinding TOP quality INFORMATION. If Guyenet dislieks me that is HIS probnlem. I gave that prick a lot of research and was always polite. You do NOT know the story behind that. It is ALL ABOUT THE GURUS, even Aragion. They are all EGOMANIACS to the core and to the max. I have never sold anything nor do I post myself all over the place.
I had been nothign but good to these a@@hole gurus. Tjhey are ALL sh@t for brains losers. I ENCOURAGE them to take me on, I will wupe the floor with them. I will start up a blog and demolish theior abuse of phsycis and expose them
for good to the public. I think it owuld do no good because they do nto have the intelligence to SEE it..
peopel attack Taubes, Matt I ASSURE you he is MUCH SMARTER than Aragon, McDonald, Colpo or GUyenet….. They are PLAIN DUMB. Muy info is LOST. FEYNMAN TOWERS abnove these pricks.
Razzie OUT, taking my servies where appreciated.
Take care of yourself, Carl. Keep a look out for my blog. I will demolish the nonsense Guyenet promotes
AVOID science popularizers like Sagan, Veritasium and Science Asylum of YouTube. Einstein vkewed gravity as a FORCE, it ks IN his direct writings to friends. He called spacetime curvature superfulous erudition and protested that explanation, really emphatically disliked it, said it said nothing.
Also, Veritasium is semi full of crap. “Virtual particles” are NOT particles at all. This is from thebest at the LHC. Internet is full of a lot kf garbage .
Neil Tyson really can confuse the public. Even wave particle duality is misrepresented. We now know the amswer is FIELDS, NOT particles. Sean Carroll is excellent.
Adios
I think what we need is to engage the dialectic. Retroductive thinking, the thinking techniques of Plutinos, Plato, and many others. Pure prediction is not even remotely good enough and confuses means with ends. Even if advanced extraterrestrials hypothetically landed here and gave humanity a supremely accurate predictive oracle device, explanation would still be on US. (David Deutsch’s Fabric Of Reality book 1997. We would have zero learning without explanation.
Good investigation or “science” demands great (hard to vary) explanations, good explanations -hard to vary. The axial tilt of seasons is a great example of this hard to vary quality explanation. . Without explanation, prediction is not of as much value. What we need is a deeeeeeeply explanatory model of obesity.
We may eventually have a thorough molecular model,deeply explanatory, the kind Dr. Friedman pushes for. Perhaps with the sunlight work from Dr. Light (my idea back in 1994)and its effects on fat tissue/cells we will gain new understanding in general.My original idea, BUT Dr. Light is doing equally important work to explain ehat is happening with mechanisms. Both are imoortant, original thought to investigate a given topic/phenom, then after proposal/suggestion, an explanatory attempt.
This sunlight effect SHOULD to lead to more clues in principle (just given the fact it was previously unknown by researchers. Urgelt’s own model was mitochondrial dysfunction -his intellectual property and I always would defend that he did, in fact, propose it and I would always give him proper credit for his own originality. He proposed it many years ago, more than seven. I DO hope it becomes a huge other piece of this puzzle. The calorie model/people who tout it are outdated dinosaurs. They were wrong from the starting gate. Human bories WASTE a ton of their food, the carbon amd nutrients. Carbon atoms absorbed, not absorbed, wasted, physically removed, excreted are some of the relevant topics here – NOT calories or ergs etc. HOT, SUPER HOT , HOT coffee has LOTS of “calories”, so did Hiroshima explosion…. We assign a bigger number to that coffee when extremely hot (versus left out and at room temp. due to thermal radiation (part of the electromagnetic field-radiation IS stuff)
We do not get fatter consuming coffee that is supremely hot desoite that it has a lot more calories, or joukes or inberse fermions that cold coffee. It has no more CARBON matter/ ATOMS to add to our bodies.
Energy and its units are fiction, usedul, but abstract fiction/accounting tricks.
I credit Urgelt for a joint cooperation/effort in revealing to me how wrong and laughable the caloroe model and caloroes in versus calories out really is.
Very true about name change, Skeptic.Good point. That is why I advocate mechanisms and understanding and the standard bearers of advice, the xommon lore, to be rethought. From the years of 2008 until around 2011, Stephan Guyenet ckrrectly noted that HIIT shkwed promise versus regular low intensity steady state. Colpo is at it bashing HIIT when in years past 2004ish he supoorted it.
Coloo cannot grasp that heavy breathing, fast, often, deeep is hkw we exhale carbon matter. He keeos talking fiction. A college basketball oractice has more potential for fat loss than a walk because the repeated spei ts in a game, in drills then the consitioning end of lractice routine gets us breathin soooo hard and fast and deep and pretty prolonged. It is the very huffing and puffing that is important. Colpo amd the” NEAT” dudes do not realize it is not enough versus just regular life or even laying around. Weightlifting for ,legs sprints, these help excrete the matter from our bodies. Anythint throughout the day that gets usmhuffing and ouffing can only help somewhat. Calorie burn is so mis,eading. Hollywood trainer Grant Roberts laughs at that expression, too. He realizes caoories are arbitrary. BTU burn, erg burn, inverse fermion, woggletoggle burns. LOL. Fiction. And our bodiesx processeses do not e
burn as in the wild chaotic totally indiscriminate oxidation of fire. In the human body, is a slow selective chemical cascade when we use oit fuel. Colpo really thinks calories are their own entity and intrinsic to fat LOL. Colpo just cannot u derstand the energy topic.
@Razwell: I think part of the reason that HIIT took a hit in popularity…
(I’ll hold for applause for that pun lol)
…is because it can be quite dangerous for untrained people or people who may have undiagnosed heart disease.
Many have pointed out that really lean and jacked wild animals like lions are sedentary all day except for their hiit work outs: all out sprints followed by the kill.
I used to do hill sprints back when I was a 100 pounds lighter. I loved em. Nothing like it.
Yes, I think high intensity exercise is probably really bad for a sick, unfit person. A much slower approach to rebuilding fitness makes a lot more sense for a lot of people.
Yes. there is a downside, too. Inflammation and sick individuals cannot do the exercise. Totally. I know some in fact. Walking is safe for most especially those sick.
HIIT had a lot of hype. It is super fun for the healthy and it can help. But I think NEAT just does not have any mechanism The breaths are not much above if at all normal life. Fast paced walking has a good chance. If one was healthy enough and not overtrained occasional sprint mixed in would probably help dump the carbon.
it’s funny back when HIIT was popular I did not give it much thought. it is only now that I do. There is also knee issues. If properly done , like say, swimming in a pool it can be good, no joint pain, etc.. I know some rehab heart patients from Miami beach who do pretty vigorous stuff very briefly but very monitored. In general they walk a lot. 2 miles.
undiagnosed could be a disaster ,Look at Seth Rioberts Out for a walk. Really a shame.
The leanest I ever got was back when I did regular 400 meter races about twice a week or once . ( and hill sprints). These are some of the toughest sports events. The 400 meter is a killer! I was huffing and puffing ou tof this world. I did repeats. Like 4 of them.
My brother wrestle in college and he said wiothou question rthat was the leanest he ever was. he was huffing and puffing. I would say the 400 meter and trying to wrestle somebody allll out for a full 3 minutes will FAST tell a given individual their level of fitness. That is among the most difficult. Helio Gracie had legendary endurance with his 2 hour matches or whatever they were.
i also walked 15 to 20 miles 2 times a week back in 1998 when my car was out of service for a long time- a dud. On rthe best of days 25 or a little more. I did this for 3 or 4 months. Aty ;east once a week no less than 15 miles. having don e both, i cab honestly say the 400 meters got me waaay l;eaner. Part of the reason besides hormones was that i excreted sooo much carbon
For health it is hard to beat walking casually. but for fat loss, I think playing basketball with Michael Jordan would help most LOL ! ( only for the healthy)
Just as Skeptic thinks, I , too, think there is nothing that feels better for cardio than running uo a steep hill sprinting, it’s great for hormones. My older brother first got me into this by telling me that ex-49ers Roger Craig, Jerry Rice, Terrel Owens, Ricky Watters, and I think Deion Sanders and Barry Sanders all ran hills.
The drawback to sustained long jogging on flat surfaces is not only knee pounding but it AGES the face. These surgeons who do facial work stress that long distande running ages the face with the jarring.
Maybe wrestling, steeeep hills, and swimming could be better than flat surface looong runs. Or simply walking if one is elderly or hs medical condition like a coronary bypass patient.
Hey Matt
What do you think of this article and the studies referenced?
http://renaissancehumans.com/how-to-increase-metabolism-during-weight-loss/#
Perlot suggests that after a calorie deficit/weight loss, slight calorie increases along with building muscle will allow body fat percentages to remain reduced. This actually isn’t shown by the study, but he says it works well for his clients.
The studies are interesting in that they suggest that different approaches provoke metabolic adaptations to more or less degree. But I don’t know how the better approach would fare long term.
I’ve heard of that approach used successfully, so there is probably some validity to it. Exercising after weight loss supposedly helps as well. Perlot has a super low metabolism (to the point of having severe Raynaud’s), so there are some holes in his beliefs regarding metabolism for sure I’d say.
Haha I was just about to comment about this study I read called the MATADOR study (Minimising Adaptive Thermogenesis And Deactivating Obesity Rebound) and of course someone beat me to it. I believe that’s the study Perlot is talking about in this link.
Like i said, diets fail because the body fights back, so what can we do to get around it’s defenses? The MATADOR study used a two weeks on, two weeks off approach, eating 2/3rds of your TDEE during the deficit phase, and eating maintenance during the weight loss phase. And it worked. Not saying it’s a magic bullet, but as I thought there can be ways around the “wisdom” of the body.
@Matt this Perlot guy has been a raw vegan since 2004 (he added cooked foods like 3 months ago), so that probably has something to do with his garbage metabolism. He’ll be on raw carnivore OMAD in no time lol, the reigning fad of 2018. Vegetable Police (a vegan YouTuber) just switched to carnivore OMAD, and has the Vegan community in a tizzy. Many more will probably follow. Can’t wait to see what the fad of 2019 is.
I know. I follow the majority of the big YouTubers. It’s pretty hilarious.
While the whole carnivore hype thing is at an all time high right now, I don’t really see an animal based diet as a fad. Yes eating only cooked ribeye is definitely faddish but getting almost all your nutrition from animal foods and avoiding plant fiber is probably a very safe and healthy diet for the majority of sick people and all people around the world. It’s what our pre agricultural ancestors did and there was a definite down tick in health post agriculture. Edward Edmonds was someone who seemed to really get it, I wish he still blogged about diet. He basically promoted eating from ruminant animals almost exclusively with small amounts of fruit, honey and milk sugars.
HOORAY…Finally the voice of reason!!!
This morning I had 125 grams of soft goat cheese smothered with 60 grams of local raw honey for breakfast, accompanied by two large mugs of coffee with gelatin, goat milk and goat mineral whey. Pulse shot to 89 bpm and I was sweating bullets.
Lunch will most likely be 4 eggs and a bunch of OJ…dinner a fatty ribeye with Trader Joes’s organic Mango Lemonade (and vodka), lol. Dark chocolate and more goat milk for the bedtime snack.
My goal is to limit my Imaginary Calories to 2500 per day for two weeks straight to see what happens, that should be a slight deficit based on past eating patterns.
I nominate Zach and Edward for the next presidential election.
p.s. I’ve finally finished reading/studying Grant Genereux’s theory, and while it is intriguing, it’s deeply flawed. I genuinely admire his effort tho.
CHEERS!!!
*Raising a weekend toast to ya’lls, hopefully there’s NO urine in your glass, lolololololololol.*
Georgia Ede, MD has some interesting comments about non-animal food sources:
http://www.diagnosisdiet.com/foods
But, depending on the point in history, where someone was on the planet, and the season, I would doubt that animal-based foods were always available.
There’s eating what’s optimal or preferred versus eating what’s available. And, of course, these days, most of what’s available is crap.
Hi Carl or Anyone else who might know the answer to this question…
I was reading through Georgia Ede’s piece on dairy (thanks for the link, Carl).
Specifically her paragraph on Calcium and Bone Health, where she states as the third bulleted point “Refined carbohydrates (there they are again?), which raise cortisol levels, setting the stage for bone loss”…
Dr. Ede seems very smart, but I have never heard or read this before, that refined carbs (sugar) raises cortisol.
I’ve always thought that sugars LOWER cortisol and associated this with people’s habit to reach for sweets when stressed. I myself absolutely must eat candy in order to get through doing my taxes, it’s a sh*t ton of paper work which I find VERY stressful. (Pretty sure that’s why so many accountants are bald, lol.)
Does anyone know where the research to prove sugars raise cortisol is???
Thanks in advance!
“it’s what are ancestors did”
Not if you ask anyone with a PhD in paleontology tho. Mostly sun-gazing flat earthers and “doctors” with an online chiropractor degree seem to push the ZERO CARB CARNIVORE BRAH was our ancestral diet mythology.
Just today I read they found evidence of bread making in Jordan that goes back 14,400, that’s 4000+ years BEFORE agriculture. Wow, I hope they didn’t drop out of ketosis and immediately develop diabetes from that bread!
amp/s/amp.cnn.com/cnn/2018/07/17/health/bread-jordan-desert-intl/index.html
I agree that once you have fiber intolerance then you can’t pound fiber, but I don’t support the paleofantasy behind it.
“Paleofantasy.”
What a great word. I’m open-minded enough to believe that there could be many forms of therapeutic dietary and lifestyle interventions to prevent or reverse disease. The whole Appeal to Grok or “Caveman Approval Process” that I like to say, is nonsense and a distraction from finding the truth or what works and what doesn’t for who and why or why not.
@magic maker: don’t listen to that Eades tard, low carb is known to elevate cortisol and high protein (pushing 40% of macros) causes calcium leeching. To him protein is a holy object from the gods and can do nothing wrong.
Magic Maker,
I’m curious about why you say Genereux’s theory about Vitamin A is deeply flawed. I’ve read both books and he makes a pretty strong argument IMO. But I don’t really know enough about the science to either support or refute his claims. I’ll be very interested to read what Matt has to say when he posts about the topic–hopefully soon. But in the meantime, I’d like to hear your thoughts.
I’m more or less in the same boat Jeanne. I think it sounds plausible, and it’s an exciting prospect for many if even partially true, but I didn’t waltz into it with a vast knowledge about vitamin A and its derivatives. So I don’t have much ammunition to try and debunk it. But I’m at the point where I’m not into swift attempts to debunk anything. It’s clear we’ve got a massive epidemic of inflammation going on worldwide, with no clear culprit. NOTHING should be off the table in our search for root causes, not even the sacred O.G. “vitamin.” And it’s particularly interesting to see that one of the most hyped up diets for overcoming chronic health conditions these days, particularly autoimmune disease, is a diet with NO VITAMIN A AT ALL.
Hi Jeanne,
I deeply admire Grant’s tenacity and I’m in NO way undermining his effort or results. I completely agree that we, as a species, are indeed poisoning ourselves. I agree with him on many many points, especially vaccinations.
All that said, I’m going to reserve my comments (cuz I got A LOT of them) until Matt weighs in. I have no idea what Matt’s thoughts and conclusions are, but I have my own (for whatever that’s worth, LOL). I’ll share them later….not gonna steal his thunder.
Plus this comment section is already S-U-P-E-R long, we really ought to have this discussion on Matt’s next post, which I’m betting will reach 2,000 comments. At least that’s my prediction.
I’m pretty convinced most vitamin A is toxic but I have not seen any real anecdotal evidence that vitamin A from animal foods is toxic except when over eating liver. But even then, old school bodybuilders would eat dozens of eggs and pop liver pills like candy and they didn’t seem to succome to toxicity. Many cultures ate liver as a health food with no adverse reactions. There is also vitamin A in breast milk.
Grant’s basic premise is that vitamin A is only problematic when your liver becomes fully saturated. Only then does it cause problems. He believes this normally took 8+ decades to even come close to that. But with supplementation, fortification, sunscreen, medication, and health food fanaticism we’re reaching that tipping point really quickly. Seems plausible to me.
Wish I could take credit for “paleofantasy” Matt but it’s from Marlene Zuk, an actual paleontologist who debunks these fad diets that claim to follow our ancestry.
Hi Whatup,
With obesity, dysregulation and hoarding is going on. There is no such thing or stuff or entity in Nature as “calories”. No such entity as “energy.” either.
When we face a food shortage or carbon atom shirtage, there is nothing whatsoever in the principles or laws of physics (laws are not restrictiins on the behavior of matter, theynare human best guesses and restrict the way we can write equatiinszNature can do anything it wants) that says fat tissue has to be chosen. Often in inesity, fat is the last to go, muscle and mkre is ravaged first. Fat cells hoard. Look at the Zucker rat, you can take away ALLLLLL, not just mkst or 90 % but Alllllll of its food and it dies, but kt dies OBESE, it ravages brain tissue and muscke rissue. It literally dies of starvation fat as hell. Lyke McDonakd is running a racket. Abusing physics to sell and sound important.
Sorry for sloppy Tablet typing late at night.
@Whatup: have you tried this protocol or planning to? I have family coming over these couple of weeks (there will be bingeing lol), but after that I’m gonna try this.
Skeptic
No I have not tried this, but anecdotally in HS I gained 15lbs or so working in fastfood and dropped it immediately upon quitting. Around the same time I got interested in weightlifting and got as lean as I had ever been, so to some extent it resonates with my experience but of course I had that youthful metabolism (in my 30s now).
I would like to do something soon so this protocol is one idea I am considering. The ultra lowfat idea discussed above sounds promising. Anyone know how long that protocol would take to expect results? A week? A month?
I am still waiting to hear the various gurus I read around the Internet use the terms “erg deficit”, “inverse fermion deficit”or carbon atom shortage”. All would be just as well. And to admit the body can exert involuntary control over if this carbon atom shortage ever occurs. We could assign calories to atomic explosions, hot air, fast moving objects.
Dr. Leibel said to me he was trying to reverse the chemical mechanic efficiency that develops in the muscles after obese people lose some fat. He is trying weight training
Using huge sample sizes, randomized clinical trials being” the gold standard “are all assumptions. Outdsted rigid thinking, a dinosaur. Dismissal of personal observations js a mistake, too, a big one.Many statin side effects were fiund from online detailed patient testimonies , thousands of the effects being talked about.This in estigation into su light and fat cells, was my lersonal observation and if I was consulted hypothetically in 1997 I WIUKD HAVE TOLD reseachers to look into this. The o ese vilkager in destitute ooveety, that cannot be ignkred. Thankfully, Taubes mentiins these kinds of observatiins and acxounts.
We need new methods. New ways ofmthinking and techniques. Dr. Ornish deserves some kudos (I am not vegan, don’t worry)
We need probably new PRINCIPLES in biology as Dr. Krauss has said on video. What scientists thought was fundamental in physics or biology changes. Leonard Susskind himsekf said that Lyle McDonald xs singular equation js dead WRONG. Any attempt to acxount for allll the matter accounting for the matter being exchangd to and from the environmemt with regard to humans woukd be hellishly comlpex, no physicist I ever knew could do it, and it would involve MANY, MANY hellishly complex EQUATIONS (not singular)
One thing physicists have learned is that what we THOUGHT was very, very fundamemtal CHANGES. Thermodynamics is approximate NOT fundame tal, thermodynamics js EMERGENT from FAR DEEPER principles. We have no idea hkw deep or far this goes diwn the rabbit hole. I wish Guyenet, McDonald, CarbSane, Colpo coukd grasp thjs. Their pomp and circumstance is absurd. Obesity is not remotely figjred out and this calorie model is a dead horse
@razwell: agree about listening to patients testimonies. They never do because they dismiss it as “all in your head”, hypochondria.
Exactly. I am actually in a bind right now due to doctor neglect and I mentiined my situation o er 3 times ro two different doctors, something was flagged on bloodwork and they dismissed it. I am glad to see others see what doctors do, how dismissive they act.
Hi Razwell,
You can read the facebook group Zeroing In On Health without being a member. If you can search the posts, type in Chris Donohue. He posts frequently with photos of his successes in both size reduction and health all since December 2017. His most recent post states what health issues went bye-bye.
My husband was recently presented the option of taking insulin for his Type 2 Diabetes blood glucose management. And appointments were made without consulting him to meet with a dietician and insulin coach. He’s in the middle of harvest, so their calls go unanswered.
Fortunately for him, I had begun the Zero Carb – No plants diet the third week in May to prove for myself it works so he could follow. Which he did a few weeks ago with the insulin scare.
His blood glucose levels are steadily dropping closer to normal ranges. Soon to be normal all the time and the spare truck tire he carries around will also be deflating.
I’m feeling better daily and becoming more energetic without effort. Someone noticed today that I’d reduced some size (nearly two clothing sizes – 4 to go) and commented I must be working hard. Nope…not hard at all. No exercise, just eat meat. Simple.
You can take charge of your own health.
Thank you, AnnB. I appreciate your kind gesture.
Check out Dr. Ornish’s article on ideas ready for reitirement in science on the Edge .org . I was surprised he was suxh a good thinker. New methodologies will help us learn mkre. RCT are onky one small tool, time for better ideas. Good exolanatiins at molecular level.
With new developmemts in physics will make a need for the way we do science TO CHANGE and it will change. Physics appears to be an environmental science now (disappoinmemt to physicists) and there very well may be no truly deepest fundamental laws, but , rather, arbitrary and by accident. Not special at all
Hi Magic,
If you want to track food -Forget calories entirely, forget ergs, BTU joules. Never necessary.
Focus on the amount of carbon grams (real stuff) you eat and find out how many exhalations you specifically do each day.There are ways to calculate the amount of grams of carbon you eat. Mine is 28,800 exhalations a day. It’s carbon atoms, matter, stuff that acts. Carbon atom shortage is a better expression. Calories and joukes and ergs are indeed totally fictitious.Energy itself is fictitious, it is nit anything and the same is true for its units. Honestly. Energy ks bookeeping made up by people.
Generally, the body keeps track of the carbon ingestiin involuntarily better than we can voluntarily Linda Baxon had good advice to try to work with the body, never, ever diet, eat to true satisfaction, eat when truly hungry, move playfully for health.
See, people like Lyke, u educated stooges like his cronies, see somebody with immense propensity to put on fat tissue eat a lot and blame “calories”. Calories are no different than any other fictitious unit. Calories cannot do jacksh@t. Energy cznnot act or do jacksh@t. It is a number.
It was matter that acted, carbon and other atoms. Stuff. Food can act bjt there is NOTHING in food called calories. We xoukd assign ANY unitzjoukes, inverse fermiins. Nothing in Nature is IN food other than its aromic structure. Energy is nit at all anything. It is just a number people attach to objects. Energy is not some nebulous stuff hiding in food like Lyke McDinakd thinks.
Hello Razwell,
Thank you for taking the time to try and educate me, but to be perfectly honest, I don’t understand what you’re saying most of the time, it goes right over my head. Reading is a favorite pastime, so I’ll do some searching on the internet and see if I can attempt to learn how to count the carbon grams in my food…..you aren’t leading me on a Snipe Hunt, are you?
I do like to track things because I find it interesting to try new ideas and notice if there are any changes. It’s my way of conducting “experiments” with myself, except I usually change too many variables at once. The only way for me to remember everything is to keep a log on an app called Cron-O-Meter.
I don’t know of any apps that track carbon grams in food. Maybe you could invent one? I don’t know if that’s even possible?
I wear a fitbit 24/7, it counts how many STEPS I take daily, not breaths. Who’s gonna invent the breath counter? I’ll be your first customer!
I don’t really diet. I’ve been eating to satisfaction for years, but I’ve noticed the KINDS of food I eat do seem to make a difference. I was intrigued by the carnivore diet, but I’m far too hedonistic for that.
Then I considered Grant’s vitamin A depletion based on some lingering issues and my history with Accutane and autoimmune. However, I feel that is a Dead-End for me as well.
My latest “diet” idea is to simply drop ALL starch and sodas. I’ve come to the conclusion that both are completely unnecessary carbon grams, ha ha. Actually, I’m not sure they’re really even “food”, as I currently define it (but neither is vodka, oops).
I’m trying to learn every day and I’m thankful to ALL of you peeps here for sharing your wisdom.
DISCLAIMER: I retain the right to change my definition of what constitutes food at a moments notice.
Hi Magic,
In the future , (right now I have a particular challenge going on personally) I could post how to track carbon grams you ingest. Limiting soda is a good choice because lots of carbon goes in under the radar via liquid, very easily overdone, muuuch carbon is let in versus plain waterzthose oxygen and hydrogen atoms are easily dealt with if you are healthy. Hot water etc.has “calories”, joules, inverse fermions. We could assign them. Doesnxt matter, it cannot add matter. Hot air has “caloriesc. Hiroshima explosion has “calories”. I do not think Dr. Mike Rosenbaum can grasp this even. Feynman was a cut above the rest.
. For breaths, try to find a timer device , set it to one minhte, and another person times it. Now, just breathe like you normally would , not thinking. Have the other guy stop when the minute passes. The other dude could try to count your breaths by your diaphram movements. 1440 are the mintes in a day. Multiply your specific exhalations in a minute by 1440. Then n you know how much you exhale in a day. I think 189 grams of carbon atoms ingested/absorbed requires 17,000 exhalations to process/excrete. That js half a pound of carbon , requiring all thkse breatsh.
I do nkt see how dorky Dr. James Levinexs NEAT could possibky matter much when exercise itself has failed so much, NEAT is not abive eberyday life. I COUKD SEE how replacing Michael Jordan and substituting in for him in hjs Wizard days and olaying a full NBA game coukd cause lots of carbon atom loss : )
Never let people lie to you about calories again. It’s carbon atoms (water is excreted eady in healthy humansl . All physicists know the real situation is carbon stoms.
Actual mecganism is carbon atoms. It sounds dunny and I bet Guyenet et al laugh but my info ks from TOO physicists who laugh at Hokey Guyenet and hjs fetish and love for “calories”. Scores of researchers cannot grasp energy truly as Feynman did. Calories, joukes, ihverse fermiins, ENTIRELY MADE UP INVENTIINS, ARBITRARY.
Involuntary regulation is how it eorks largely but traciing carbon is the onl1y worthwhile endeavor if you ever chose to track. But tracking is a general idea, this involuntary system still is going on
Some people waste more food than others. Human body does not absorb as much as most assume, lots of wasting going on.
Itxs carbon atoms. Never, ever, wver was calories. Confront Guyenet and Colpo , They’re just ignkrant.
Hope this helps so far. Best luck
Razz
Professor Razwell “Razzle-Dazzle” Razzleton,
First of all, I saw your post that you have some health issue with which you’re currently dealing. I hope you get the help you need and I wish you a speedy recovery. I’ve been dealing with multiple doctors (conventional and “alternative”), over the past five years, and it’s mostly been a joke. Only, I’m not laughing.
As for excreting carbon atoms, what are your thoughts on that morbidly obese guy in 1965 that underwent a medically-supervised fast for 382 days and lost 276 pounds? I wonder how many carbon atoms he dumped in the toilet?! hahaha
Take care and feel better soon!
Sincerely,
Carl
Thank you, Carl. You are a great person. : )
I just saw your comment. Hope you are very healthy right now.
That obese guy must have excreted huge amounts of carbon out his lungs, sweat and peeing LOL!
When we eat food the atoms that comprise it, the carbon atoms, get absorbed by oir blood, making us heavier here on Earth on land, and add matter to our bodies. Energy and its unkts are fictiin, numners.
Calories cannot add matter or tissue to our bodies.
Calories cannot make us weigh more.
Atoms can. Lyle and Coloo are just mad because I handed them their asses a few years back at my blog. They are science illiterate shysters with huge followings. Urgelt warned me years ago those individuaks are book selling salesmen x
con artists preying on RUBES. Urgekt is one of the smartest guys on the Internet, esoecially the health area. He is a GOOD MAN. ETHICAL.
This is from Dr. Jeffrey Friedman during his lecture, “There is a very high insulin level in most obese patients.”
It is an important hormone. CarbSane, Aragon, Lyle, Guyenet, Colpo are lying bookselling shysters and can now srop their Internet misinformation. Real scientists who have accomplished something in their lives admit this.
The ob gene is in both rodemts and man as well. These salesmen shysters are too quick to dismiss mouse and rat studies. They are valuable.
Urgelt is a good man. I respect him. He is far more intelligent and science/physics literate than Lyle McDonald, CarbSane, Alan Aragon and the like.
“The primary sins of the Caloric Model are that it attempts to posit a closed system where N-O-N-E exists, it dramatically oversimplifies and it does NOT even attempt to explain, many, many observations. Ignoring evidence is a good way to get your theory killed.”
– Urgelt
The first law of thermodynamics is being abused and misused by people such as Dr. James Levine, Dr. Mike Rosenbaum and others. It is INVALID. Taubes is correct to attack them.
The first law of thermodynamics is not as fundamental as General Relativity theory or The Standard Model of particle physics , says physics legend Steven Weinberg ( one of the best living physicists in the world) . We now know G.R. is likely not the real case, wrong. Sean carroll has said this as well. As we learn more about Black Holes, we will know for sure if G.R. is very incorrect. Predicting infinities is a sign something is very amiss with the mathematics.
Anyway, “the first law of thermodynamics” does NOT at all address the following:
WHETHER lipids are stuffed into fat cells,
WHETHER our food is shuttled to muscle tissue
WHETHER our food/fuel are used for repair
WHETHER lipids are simply eliminated and excreted as waste
Dr. Peter M. Hoffmann ( recommended to me by TOP MIT guys) agrees with me that this is a complex biochemical process and the conservation of energy is being thoroughly abused- it does not at all address INDIVIDUAL METABOLISMS and how out bodies PARTITION and process and HANDLE ingested carbon based food.
The first “law” ( it is not a law, just a human model ) does not care if we ate a HUGE chocolate bar and POOPED IT OUR WHOLE as a physicist once told me!
Here are two great videos where Urgelt talks of Internet scammers and another where he talks about obesity prejudice. Lot of GREAT comments in the comment section.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T8Zv-W7Oh4o
( I cannot find the scammer video for now but i will.)
Guyenet, McDonald and Aragon once wrote to me in e-mails that “calories power us, the pathways.” ROTFLOL! O.M.G. They revealed their IGNORANCE with those words. HOW LAUGHABLE is his “Lyle McDonald EQUATION”
SEE BELOW:
From Dr. Hoffmann and other TOP guys in this field who study molecular machinery- which IS relevant to US. (Macroscopic style thermodynamics is NOT applicable to human life, it is NOT how WE work.)
“ATP synthase ” is our motor, it is THE THING that POWERS US.( staggeringly intricate and complex) ATP synthase is a molecular machine, a molecular motor and it runs off of a PROTON GRADIENT .
These life molecular machines are MUCH, MUCH, MUCH DIFFERENT than anything- ANY machine we know in the regular macroscopic world- steam engines , cars, planes, etc.
IMPORTANT: @@@@ ATP synthase is FUNDAMENTALLY VERY VERY, VERY, VERY DIFFERENT from the kid of machines we know in the macroscopic world
I can say FOR 100 % SURE ANYTHING written by Guyenet, CarbSane or Aragon and McDonald on “thermodynamics” is laughably wrong and REFUTED by my top expert sources- the best in the world . Spread it far and wide! CarbSane et al. ARE LYNG OR are simply uninformed. AND THEY HAVE CAJONES to bash Taubes??????????? Pick your favorite unit, carBSane- calories, inverse fermions, ergs, watts- NO DIFFERENCE- ALL ARBITRARY AND FICTIONAL.
VERY IMPORTANT BELOW FROM HOFFMANN’S COLLEAGUES:
IMPORTANT” @@@@@ ATP synthase- these types of molecular machinery are NOT deterministic. N-O-T- deterministic. ( Deterministic, in physics a system has NO randomness involved in the development of future states of the system.) These molecular complex structures do NOT always operate at the same rate and they (ATP synthase and the like0 can EVEN fluctuate BACKWARDS, where ti eats ATOP and kicks out a few protons….
ATP synthase processes’ 9 and all molecular machines) are NOT deterministic- CRUCIAL.
These molecular objects that power LIFE are STOCHASTIC UNLIKE the macroscopic steam engines etc.
This is CREAM OF THE CROP INFORMATION FOR ALL OF YOU. USE TO WELL TO BATTLE THESE FRAUDS. I really think Kevin hall is a disgrace to science.
Once in a while , every now and then, ATP synthase has odd and funny fluctuations. It can fluctuate BACKWARDS sometimes where it eats ATP and kicks out a few protons. Sorry for the typing errors.
ATP synthase is very, very , very FUNDAMENTALLY DIFFERENT IN OPERATION from cars, planes, steam engines. ATP synthase , which basically POWERS humans, is NOT deterministic. The ATP synthase structure is elaborate, genius and spectacular. It is complicated beyond belief and amazes the best on the world who study molecular machinery.
Razwell-
I just thought that your brain went a lot faster than your fingers typing away! (explaining typos) I also could “feel” the excitement you have about the subject…. almost like you’re breathing too fast while you’re writing (thus expelling lots of carbon atoms).
And my eyes read a lot faster than my brain processes what you write. ????
But it all seems very interesting!
LOL. You are very intuitive, Liana. : )
I do admit I get excited writing this, typing away fast and passionately. LOL!!!!
Lots of atoms removed. LOL.
Basically what James Krieger, Stephan Guyenet, Kevin Hall, Lyle McDonald, Alan Aragon, Anthony Colpo,
CarbSane, James Fell, Jamie Hale are trying to do is (erroneously) apply and relate /equate the workings (traditional macroscopic thermodynamics) of big, stinky steam engines, cars, planes to that of the very, very, very DIFFERENT , supremely intricate, poorly understood small scale behavior of open , non-equilibrium, dissipative systems -That of humans and all of life -the stochastic thermodynamics that is relevant molecular motors, (the super, super complex behavior of ATP synthase) the molecular machinery of life which is stochastic thermodynamics topic. Biological systems and their intricate molecular workings which FLUCTUATE a lot, even running backwards now and then.
. BIG, BIG, BIG MISTAKE on CarbSane et al.’s part…… Laughably wrong.
A little off -topic but I wanted to say :Urgelt is a good man. I do respect him. I want to publicly say I cede to Urgelt’s view of Stephen Curry. Urgelt was right. I just am not too familiar with Curry. I cannot ignore the good things Coach K, Bobby Knight, Jerry West and Rick Barry have said about Steohen Curry’ shooting, passing and to a large extent dribbling. He is a good distributor. I still think his individual defense is pretty weak and his non-shooting hand/arm extends (huge no-no ) off -hand needs to be worked on. This is the reason for the horrid airballs that happen much more than you would think.The thumb flicking with the off-hand thumb is a problem.
Dave Hopla is a true shooting expert. He is the one guy who coukd beat Curry in a game of HORSE. So, Curry would do well to listen to him. It can only improve him, which woukd be devastating, as good as ne already is. He just needs those bad habits corrected. As far as INNATE shooting talent, I give Curry top ranking abive all NBA players past amd present.
If Curry works with Hopla closely, Curry will go down as the greatest shooter likely. He is a,ready top 3 or 5. The late Drazen Petrovic can never be forgotten.
If some of you guys talk to Urgelt by YouTube message, if you guys (especially Carl : ) )could let him see this.Urgelt deserves credit. I did not study Curry enough.
Urgelt is an ethical man, knkwledgeable about science and in this case, he was RIGHT that Curry is an offensive force. An anamoly. Barkley amd Magic were anamolies, too. I wish Urgelt a long life and happiness. He has been instrumemtal in my learbing about onesity, each of us influencing the other.
I try to admit right away when I was mistaken. As far as offense, Curry is much better than I thought, one of tje NBA’s best offensive players. Due to his skill set he scores efficientky and faaaast.
I really DO think, as the late coach, John Wooden said, that the 3 point arc must be moved baaaaack. I feel it is toooooo used today and likely not enough back in 1995.
Curry js an elite player. This is Razzi publicly ceding to Urgelt about this. : )
Well, I best take care of my own health now.
Thanks everyone,
Razz
This Is Why Eating Healthy Is Hard (Time Travel Dietician)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Ua-WVg1SsA
Ha ha, great vid Carl… a near perfect illustration of my own ridiculous dietary journey. VERY FUNNY!!!
I only wish they kept it going to extol the profound evils of this man’s orange juice and coffee. Certainly y’all know how poisonous fructose is…and caffeine, whoa! Don’t even get me started on adrenal fatigue, lol.
And then the time traveling dude would come back and advocate lots of “Bulletproof” coffee and gallons of OJ, a la Ray Peat.
I’m glad you enjoyed the video! Likewise, I would have liked a longer version that included iterations of other bogus information. I wonder if, eventually, the time traveling dietician would have concluded “Oh, the hell with it, just read 180DegreeHealth.com!”??
There’s also the priceless spiritual wisdom and dietary guidance of JP:
https://youtu.be/Oht9AEq1798
Magic Maker — I don’t know whether to thank you for the link to JP or curse you for my new addiction. This guy is funny as hell, smart, and very insightful. I can’t stop watching his videos (flat earthers, life coaching, getting ripped, Tony Robbins, etc.). I had to take a break from watching “How to be Successful on Facebook”, because I almost fell out of my chair laughing at “#BetterThanYou, #PleaseNoticeMe”. I don’t know how he does these vids with a straight face.
I know, isn’t he awesome? He’s my new guru…because I DESPERATELY need one.
https://youtu.be/W3H6-NQ6hfA
lol reminded me of this one: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4xtnH0fxDUg
All these “experts” and none of them have a goddamn clue.
Ahahahaha — great video, Skeptic! So true. I just watched some of the other videos, too:
What Happens When You Tell People You Can’t Eat Gluten
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XMZIAlKFRY4
Buy Food Ethically, Unless It’s Too Hard
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vpOnqIuR5F4
Good stuff.
Matt, you’re slackin’
I know dude, sorry.
Exactly, Carl and Skeptic (regarding the experts). You know, recentky Penrose called QM a half baked theory. Weinberg is not as entnralled with it anymore. We are missing big things. The greatest physicists do not like to be saddled with “expert” even. They always soeak out about the major fallibility of “experts.”
Iwanted to thank you, Carl, for caring about my healtrh.I want to say Matt (and Gary Taubes but he js not really a blogger) is the only blogger I respect. I felt good enough today to comment. I took monstrously strong antibiotics and maximum doses. Kidney infection was one of the things going on.
Urgelt stressed to me for 10 years that unless these gurus are acknowledging enormous uncertainty, they are frauds. Douglas Graham is a prime examole of a money grubber dude. Nutrition is a topic even more comolex than the cliche of “rocket science.” Our u derstanding of human cellular biochemical operations is soooooo poor and far from even near complete. We are barely scratching the surface. This is why we fail with treating obesity and many people die of cancers every year. Even coronary disease, why plaques form is not well known. LDL is just as much in veins as arteries. Why dies it onky form in arteries? Veins have just as much. Once a vein is transplanted in coronary revascularization, it nkw can become atherosclerotic being exposed to tje pounding pressure of the coronary artery areas. Why dkes plaque onky form in dkscreet areas and kinks, not uniformky. If LDL lipoprotein really caused CAD, we woukd see it form uniformky everywnere.
We all walk through a minefueld nutritiinally. But we have to live out
r livesandwe have to get enjoyme t. While simole, mere overeating is not good for anybody and is not the cause of obesity, eating bkand food could contribute to it due to lack of satisfactionzwe may be consumed with fod all day, overeating to comoensate. This is why I dislike food reward, it ks a poor idea overeall, a rehash of simo,e overeating. I just try to keep my eating varied, get fish oil and orange pepper and corn for my eyes(helps macula). I do not want to get disease when I am 50 or more in like 15 years, I get something new almost eveey supermarket trip. Urgelt taught me that. If on sale, I get oysters, mussels, shrimp, lobster, (exoensive!) beef, salmon, turkey. I have recentky tried arugula. I want to try whale blubber like the Eskimos for my heart. LOL! This Miami news journalist receuvd an e mail from me abiut eating whake blubber if possible versus fish oil and he remembers it to this day. It happened in 2007. Hkward Cihen. LOL, Whake blubber guy he knows me by.
P.S. I still do not like Stephen c
Curryxs defense at all. (This is a weakness he has) I think Scottie Pippen was a brilliant defender, covered ground, off ball, great team defender, too, played little tricks to get kffensive players leaning and off bakance driving. Kibe did a GREAT analysis of Scottie’s defense on YouTube for basjetball fans out there. I LOVE PIPPENZpossibky my favorute olayer ever, Kevin Garnett, too. You could not ask fir a better basketball physique than these two men.
Thankfully, they are pretty good with bacteria related health troubles versus chronic disease and or various obscure and even common conditions-The discivery that led to Penicillin is one of our greatest accomplishments. My recovery is slow but I feel that the antibiotic is “winning in the 10th round .”
Hey, Razwell!
I’ve been checking the blog, every few days, to see when you might resurface. I’ve been concerned about your health and wondering how you’re doing.
I’m glad you’re improving, albeit slowly. “Slow and steady wins the race,” as the saying goes. I’m sorry you’ve been dealing with all that stuff. I hope you’re 110% soon.
Slowly, I’m finally coming to accept that the only certainty is uncertainty. Jeez, I hate clich’s. But, if the shoe fits… (damn, I did it again!)
Over the years, I would occasionally watch the YouTube channel of Darren Schmidt, DC. Have you familiar with him? I’d say, in the last six months, his videos have become more interesting to me, as he’s starting to acknowledge and focus on issues like parasites and infections.
Also, there’s a lady named Susan Luschas who created a website called DebugYourHealth.com that chronicles her journey with her family’s health through things like parasites, Lyme Disease, and infections. I heard a podcast interview with her and it was scary and fascinating. Her daughter got Lyme Disease via lice. Then, it spread to the other family members.
Then, a website called BetterHealthGuy.com that’s run by Scott Forsgren — a guy who recovered from Lyme Disease, too. He has a podcast (under “Blogcast” on his website, as well as a YouTube channel) and interviews some pretty amazing folks like Dietrich Klinghardt, Ben Lynch, Garth Nicolson, and others. Highly recommended.
Speaking of Garth Nicolson, his website is immed.org (The Institute for Molecular Medicine) and he focuses research on things like Lyme Disease, Gulf War Illness, Chronic Fatigue, Cancer Cell Biology, Autoimmune Illness, Infectious Disease, Molecular Biology, Bioterrorism, etc. I’ve read some of his work and listened to him talk on mycoplasma — a component of Lyme Disease and Gulf War Illness. I did a tour of the Persian Gulf, back in the late 80s.
Then, for the more “unusual,” there’s Anthony William the “Medical Medium” who believes that chronic Epstein-Barr Virus (EBV) is at the root of many “mystery” illnesses. If you Google “anthony william goop ebv,” you’ll find one of his several articles on the goop.com website — which is run by that fruitcake Gwyneth Paltrow.
As for Lyme Disease, I’ve been trying to figure-out a new doctor with which to work. Initially, I thought I’d go to a clinic in Kansas called the Hansa Center. But, it’s a several day drive and is very costly. I’d spend the money, if I could be reasonably sure it could help. But, there are never any guarantees. The main doctor is David Jernigan and he has an interesting blog that discusses many of the aforementioned things, ammonia toxicity, and much more. His blog is DavidJernigan.blogspot.com and is interesting.
There’s a guy named Josh Macin that has an online video coaching course at TheDetoxDudes.com that was designed to help people with a variety of issues like Lyme Disease and others.
Finally, the guy I’m strongly considering working with is Jay Davidson, DC. He offers one-on-one coaching for either six or 12 months, but it’s very expensive. However, he also has a web-based self-study course that guides people through each of the phases. The website is LymeDiseaseProgram.com — but, I think the program could help many people besides Lyme sufferers. The program has a 30-day money-back offer, so I’d have time to kick the tires for a bit.
For me, I think I need to focus on this sort of stuff first, rather than continuing to chase new diets.
Last but not least, I enjoyed your points about CAD, plaque, LDL, and transplanted veins. I’m not really up-to-speed on that stuff, but it does seem that plaque is mostly discussed in relation to the heart and/or the brain.
Just yesterday, I was watching two polar opposite opinions on YouTube about cholesterol. For the millionth time. On one side, vegan doctor Pam Popper saying eat no animal foods, plant-based, low-fat, etc. On the other side, that Darren Schmidt guy showing how the vegans use epidemiology studies that do not show causation. He then shows something on carnivore doctor Shawn Baker’s Instagram page highlighting an article about how Hong Kong now has the highest life expectancy in the world and that Hong Kongers eat 664 grams (1.46 lbs.) of meat per day — four times higher than Britain and the highest per capita meat consumption in the world.
So, the debate rages on. Meanwhile, I’m going to have some more bacon and eggs.
Stay well, buddy.
Best wishes,
Carl
LOL @ Hong Kong having highest meat consumption, I’d love to see a citation for that! ???? They’re cuisine is rice, noodle and veg heavy, and the poor can’t afford that much meat
Dissing epidemiological studies is common among low carbers. “Bah! Never mind what these studies observing large populations show, they’re garbage. Now let me tell you why you should eat carnivore, which I learned by observing a large population called the Inuit…”
Hey, Skeptic:
I was hoping you would appear. :) I went to Darren’s video, looked at his screenshot, and saw he was looking at Shawn Baker’s Instagram page. So, I went directly to Shawn’s account, but I didn’t find the image.
Next, I Googled the opening phrase, regarding the meat consumption in Hong Kong. What I found, however, was this article:
“Why Hong Kong’s love affair with meat is leaving planet paying price through carbon emissions.”
The opening paragraph:
“City’s residents are among world’s biggest meat consumers, which is main reason for high greenhouse gas emissions per capita, researchers say.”
BusinessInsider.com/hong-kong-now-has-the-worlds-highest-life-expectancy-2017-7
That wasn’t mentioned, as you might expect.
Going back to Darren’s video, I realized he was pulling some numbers from another site, too — not just Shawn’s Instagram page.
He used “data” from the following page:
Truther10.blogspot.com/2016/06/hong-kong-world-longest-life-expectancy.html
(Because, you know, all reliable health information is found on Instagram and any blog with “Truther” in the title.)
The citation?
“The UN data shown below came from National Geographic website, article: what the world eats”
So, back to Google, I found the following:
NationalGeographic.com/what-the-world-eats
And, I looked-up Hong Kong. At present, it appears the NatGeo website shows meat consumption at 695 grams per person. This number matches the above “Truther10” blog.
From the NatGeo “About” link:
“This interactive was built in conjunction with National Geographic’s Future of Food series.
Food.NationalGeographic.com
The data was sourced from FAOSTAT.
FAOstat3.fao.org/faostat-gateway/go/to/home/E
Values reflect domestic utilization for food consumption in each country or region from 1961 to 2011. Food groupings and units of measure vary slightly from those depicted on the FAOSTAT site.
Download the data from here.
FAOstat3.fao.org/faostat-gateway/go/to/download/FB/FBS/E
Values for China refer to FAO’s ‘China, mainland.'”
In the end, it’s still a complicated matter. I’m not sure if every person on the planet could eat 1.5 lbs. of meat per person per day, on average. There would seemingly (to me) be a lot of implications to doing so. But, even if we could, the next question would be if we should.
I’m just trying to keep it simple by not eating anything to which I’m allergic (shellfish, regrettably), not eating anything that obviously disturbs me, not paying absurd prices for fad foods, and, if I’m able, trying to overlay that with eating things that actually taste good to me while also minimizing “junk” — whatever that means, on any given day. ha…
How are things going for you?
Nice detective work Carl. I guess FAO data is pretty legit but I’m still having trouble believing this number. I mean even carnivores eat about 2 pounds of meat a day for context, so these people are eating almost the same ON TOP OF all the rice, noodles and veg? That’s a lot of calories for a non-athlete Asian.
If the numbers are accurate then they definitely won’t stay on that top spot for long. High calorie and high reward never ends well.
I’m doing alright. I want to try the two weeks on two weeks off protocol but I can’t stomach the idea of running a deficit again ????
Hi Skeptic…I hear ya, running a deficit is NO FUN.
I’ve noticed that the more I tell myself that I’m not gonna eat this or that, the more I gravitate towards those very foods! For instance, I recently told myself I was gonna cut out starches and soda. But guess what happened? Red Bull was on sale at Costco (so I bought two cases). And, while I have successfully managed not eating ANY tortilla chips or potato chips, I have gorged on rice crackers, gluten free bread AND potatoes!!! Go figure.
This seems to happen every single time, it’s like some sort of sub-conscious self-destruction sets in solely because I told myself I was gonna restrict some particular food. We KNOW this backfires, hopefully I’ve learned my lesson this time.
So now I’ve come full circle, calories DO MATTER….damn that CICO!
How does a person create a deficit without eating too much fiber? Vegetables are so fibery.
We could create a deficit with more movement, but exercise makes me HUNGRY.
:-O
@magic maker
Lol yeah, even with caffeine, when I say I want to quit I end up drinking 5 times the amount before I decided to quit. As for deficits, I don’t think there’s a way around the hunger. I could eat a whole head of cabbage but my stomach doesn’t buy it.
Thank you, Carl. :)
I really appreciate your concern. I , too, am concerned about your Lyme struggles. I don’t know if you have talked to Urgelt but he has been pretty public with his Lyme Disease struggles. He really closely follows the studies, the obscure experiments. I wish I knew more about Lyme Disease. Urgelt is dissatisfied with the medical community’s stance and incorrect dogmas.
I will have a look at the links.
Thanks again, my friend, for supporting me.
My Best Tropical Wishes,
Razz
This is for everyone to take and use as you see fit or to challenge Dr. Kevin Hall and his crew:
The BMI is not valid, it is total nonsense and dismissed by serious scientists. It does not measure body fat. Plenty of soft bodied Humpty Dumpty types fit the erroneous numbers and are tricked into thinking they are lean. It is not necessarily their fault they are chubby. (But I already delved into involuntary mechanisms-save that for another day)
IMPORTANT :”Weight” is a FORCE and being a force, it is correctly measured in NEWTONS, NOT pounds or kilograms etc.
(This is a different situation from energy, a number, abstract mathematical fiction and how calories, joules, ergs, inverse fermions are all the same-pick your favorite, said Feynman. There are some conversion math you need to do but they are all inventions , arbitrary units measuring “energy” something that is only an accounting trick, abstract characteristic we assign to objects)
Forces are real, comprise Nature. Weight is arbitrary, weight is NOT an intrinsic property of a body. Manuel Uribe, on the Moon, or in the sea on Earth, would not weigh as much as you or I on land. The Apollo astronauts all lost “weight” while standing on the Moon. In both cases none of the aforementioned people changed their body composition.
@ “Weight” is a FORCE that is due to the INTENSITY of the (local) gravitational FIELD on your particular planet, at your particular location (you would weigh more at the North Pole than the Equator, the force you woukd experience would be slightly greater at the North Pole) on said planet and the medium which you are in-medium dependent. Are you floating in the sea? Standing on land? I think local gravitational field is the best exoression when talking of various planets, it can very at different locations on the same planet. Gravitational field strength or intensity not onky varies from planet to planet but specific locations on the same planet.
There is nothing about “weight ” that is intrinsic to you.
Contrary to what you hear everywhere, Einstein viewed gravity as a FORCE, he ephatically protested and did NOT at all agree with commenters saying it is “due to or caused by the curvature of spacetime.” Einy never said that! What Einy said was “There is a FIELD OF FORCE, nameky the gravitational field, which has the remarkable property of imparting the same acceleration to all objects.”
Einy called Hermann Minkowski’s alternative mathematics “superfulous erudition” and commented that it said nothing. Einy said that gravity ks a FORCE FIELD in his G.R. theiry and that gravitatiinal field was no more geometric , no less than ANY other field, electromagmetic etc. In Einy’s theiry of general relativty gravity IS a force field. For more info look up physicists John Stachel and Rodney Brooks. Google search this phrase : “Einstein Never Said ThatRodney Brooks” or ” Einstein disagreed with geometrization of gravity” You will see Einy’s persoanl handwritten words showing how he hated that view amd protested it emphatically.
I, Razwell, am 6′ feet 3 ” inches and “WEIGH” 978 Newtons in my (local) gravitational field , here on planet Earth . This really is the most accurate way of phrasing it.
Tell your doctor that. LOL! I would pay money to see their expressions.
(If I were at the North Pole it would be a very slightly different “weight. I am 25 degrees north of the Equator)
. If I were on different various planets this intensity of the gravitational field would change dramatically , the force my body would experience would change, would vary, but my body fat would not. I would say other planets certainly have areas on the same planet that the gravitatiinal field’s intensity may vary, even more than on Earth.
Speaking of body fat, Google :”scientists putting the SQUEEZE on fat cells.”. No imaginary inverse fermion deficit going on.
Fat cells may disintegrste with enough mechanical force applied for a long time, just like any other tissue. It’s weird, I’ve been sleeping on the floor for the last 20 yesrs for a firmer matress so to speak. It is pretty hard even with a sleeping bag. My hip bones have no fat even when I gain fat. It is bizarre. They have been pressed for so long. I guess I should use a
bed. My hip bone is sore! The outter bones, side.
I am schooling Dr. David Katz currently, the smug Yale prick.
I, Razwell am 6′ feet 3″ inches tall and “WEIGH” 978 Newtons under the INTENSITY of the local gravitational field at my particular specific location here on planet Earth.
I guess that’s the best way to say it. Like the physicists say, Want to lose “weight”? No dietary changes or exercise necessary! SIMPLY JUST change your MEDIUM, your planet OR move to higher ground right here on Earth or the North Pole . I was amazed at the different location and the data:
Here is something for you. It turns out the strength and intensity of the (local )gravitational field on earth varies in MANY places:
https://www.newscientist.com/article/dn24068-gravity-map-reveals-earths-extremes/
Use this to challenge Hall, CarbSane, Guyenet, Colpo- those low I.Q. dopes about what “weight” IS.
Did anybody watch the Netflix series “Affliction?” It explored people with CFS, Lyme, chemical sensitivity (which I have), and other “vague” afflictions. Of course, they picked extreme cases and seemed to suggest a lot of it was psychosomatic.
Nonetheless, I found it interesting. And their extreme searches for the “right” remedies reminded me of my search for the “right” diet.
In a lot of these low carb versus high carb wars -what many do not see is that both fatty acids and carbohydrates are loaded with carbon. Carbon is a big factor.Then there are hormonal considerations. Genetics really determines how we handle this. I have a female relative with a MONSTROUS appetite, she is a very small and lean girl. She does not exercise that much, just lives life.
Guyenet cannot grasp the lack of rewarding tasty food could easily and does trigger overeating in people. Overeating is bad for anybody, strains the heart etc. But not everybody will get fat. Huge variation in responses. Eating low reward food is a miserable life and it is not effective even.
That food, sleep, and “horizontal reproductive activities” are rewsrding is not in dispute among anybody. But what the issue is, is that this theory has any validity as a cause of obesity. Simle overeating has been debunked years ago. I could eat and eat but I could never in my wildest dreams become like Manuel Uribe or even those below his adiposity. Friedman and other higher ups never mention it. This behavioral idea has very little scientific evidence behind it. The internatiinal adoption/twin studies, show how lifestyle really made no difference. Until Guyenet and Hall STEP AWAAAAY from this debunked overeating centric idea, they will make zero progress. Scientific progress relies on understanding the TRUE NATURE of this biological problem we are dealing with and up against. Unexpected findings and new thoughts never thought before are KEY. Unexpected bizarre findings are the key to all of scientific progress. Imagination in a straighjacket is what we need, deeply intuitive people. Obesity has a deep molecular level underpinning we are nowhere near inowing. Foid rewsrd is a garbage theory not eorth pursuung. Even if QM is wrong and Penrose thinks it probably is, a return to classical physics is NEVER happening. I tuink that analogy is relevant here.
?horizontal reproductive activities?
hahahahahaha – How very diplomatic!
Good stuff, as always! :-)
@Lianda: when I say “overeating” I don’t mean it in the judgy, gluttony and sloth, eating as a hobby kind of way. I just mean eating a surplus consistently.
I don’t think it’s a “character flaw”, I think the brain (hypothalamus) is the one actually in control of how much you “chose to” eat and how much you weigh. So when I say overeating, I don’t mean it’s anyone’s fault, but I do think the system is failing at it’s job (for the various reasons we’ve discussed here). Your case could well be the stress (cortisol stores fat).
P.s. you don’t have to overeat (surplus) every day to get and stay fat.
Skeptic,
There are ways to gain weight without ever overeating. One way is by catching a cold from Adenovirus 36. This virus causes fat cells to get larger and multiply regardless of food intake: https://www.obesityaction.org/community/article-library/obesity-due-to-a-virus-how-this-changes-the-game/.
According to Grant Genereux, at least some cases of obesity may be caused by excess Vitamin A. Even though you’d need an excess of Vitamin A, you might not be eating too much food overall–ever.
Stress causes weight gain without excess food. Cortisol causes the body to store fat regardless of food intake. I can attest to this from first hand experience. I had a very stressful job for about 18 months. During that time, I routinely missed meals and ate much less than normal overall. Yet, I gained about 20 pounds.
As Matt has explained numerous times, undereating results in only temporary weight loss. The reverse is also true. Overeating will result in only *temporary* weight gain. The body will naturally correct any imbalance unless something else is wrong.
@jeanne: you said you were eating much less and skipping meals, so that would’ve meant that your metabolism would’ve slowed down to burn less calories, which would make a previously maintenance level of calories to temporarily become surplus calories i.e. you were overeating during that time.
The body will launch all out war on land, air and sea to fight even a five pound weight loss, but will send like one obese mall cop armed with a flashlight to fight a 100 pound weight gain.
I’ve spent two decades in this shitty obese body. There is no help coming.
I think the stigma of “overeating” as the cause of weight gain is overly sensitive these days. Undermetabolizing would probably be a much more accurate term. Or even overstoring.
Skeptic,
When you say I was eating too much (for the situation), you imply that the solution was to eat even less. That would have only made the problem worse. And by the way, I gained the weight while I was eating less, not after I resumed normal eating. The solution had nothing to do with food–it was to get out of that job and away from that crazy company much sooner than I did. My body knew it was a toxic situation and it was trying to protect me. If I had known even a little bit about how to listen to my body then (my excuse is that I was only in my 20s), I would have quit after the first week. I actually did lose most of the weight after I quit the job and resumed eating normally. The experience ended up just contributing another piece to my adult weight problem.
I do understand your despair. I agree that it’s much harder to lose excess fat than to gain it. And I spent 4 decades fighting my body–that’s 20 years more than you. I’m not fighting it anymore, because I think it knows better than my mind does. But I’m not ready to give up on being healthy yet. I AM giving up all the old methods I used to try to force my body to become leaner (restricting food and exercising like an Olympic athlete). They don’t work. But I am open to new ideas. That’s why I’m here on 180. Good luck to you.
@Razwell: notice how you always say something like “IF I overate…” or “IF I forced myself to overeat, I wouldn’t gain weight”, etc…
In other words, you DON’T overeat and DON’T feel the urge to do so even when around high reward food. Don’t you realize that’s the reason why you’re not fat?
Skeptic-
I have NEVER overeaten. In fact, I was so “calorie conscious” (sorry Razwell) that I have spit out food that I didn’t love because I didn’t want to waste the calories. I have been a chronic dieter for decades (until I heard Matt Stone talk about how dieting makes you gain weight). I have been a chronic exerciser. I did EVERY kind of diet imaginable- from low fat, to Paleo, vegan, vegetarian…. on and on…. And the worst part of it is: I started dieting when I was THIN to prevent myself from getting fat (like my mom who I adored).
Right now, I have to force myself to eat in the morning. During the day I’m full on half the portion of anyone I’m eating with. On the few occasions I go out to eat, I have to take home half of the meal for the next day (or give it away to homeless people on the street in San Diego).
I’ve been gluten free because of my diagnosis of Hashimoto’s thyroiditis. It is corrected with T3 alone. I struggle to get my temperatures up, but can’t increase the dose of T3 because it makes my heart pound.
My mother and father were “overweight”. My brother is overweight. I am overweight. Gaining weight is NOT about overeating. It’s about stress – and some people overeat from stress, and some just have the results of chronic stress change their metabolism. And some people have a genetic predisposition to become fat! (I wish I could show you photos of kids and their parents- but you can see them on my website).
There are so many epidemiological studies that show this. There was a study in the UK on civil servants and their weight corresponded to their pay scale. Poor people are fatter- and it’s not just from the food they eat – it’s from stress. The ACE study done in the US shows that children from the age of birth to 6 years old will get all sorts of illnesses and obesity (which I don’t consider an illness) in their adult lives if they were neglected, abused or humiliated during those years! STRESS causes long term consequences.
And once the excess adipose tissue is deposited on your body you have a 5% chance of getting it off and keeping it off. This is Truth.
Hi Lianda,
Thanks so much for sharing here, I love your insight! Our dieting history/exercising/Hashi’s stories are very similar.
One thought on the T3 dosing thing, have you tried taking EXTRA magnesium with your T3 doses? I find that helps in a nearly miraculous way. I believe that magnesium is crucial and somehow a rate limiting factor for cells desperately needing T3.
In my own situation, I was diagnosed many years ago with mitral valve prolapse and “noisy” heart valves accompanied by the palpitations, fluttering, racing etc. I have reversed ALL of my heart issues by getting enough T3 and magnesium. This includes an echocardiogram proving the mitral valve prolapse no longer exists! I couldn’t tolerate the T3 dose necessary until I got my magnesium status waaaay up. A hundred mg. of magnesium with each dose, just a thought…
On genetics, I was adopted at birth, so I don’t know my biological family….well, at least until very recently.
Last summer I did the 23andMe genetic testing in order to try and “hack my genes for health”, lol. It’s been very enlightening. I found out that not only do I have every genetic marker for obesity and diabetes, but also several for celiac. I DEFINITELY do better without wheat, but I had already discovered that on my own back in 2011.
I’ve learned that certain populations of people which have survived repeated famines (my ancestors) are carriers of these thrify genes, so it’s understandable why today’s abundant food supply can be problematic.
I’m not a big proponent of restrictive diets, but eliminating certain foods for certain people can be super helpful.
I had a DNA cousin contact me through 23andMe asking who I was and where did I fit in to her family tree??? You can imagine the family’s surprise, shock (and horror for some) when they learned of my existence.
It’s been QUITE a ride! I met my aunt (biological father’s sister) a couple weeks ago at Applebee’s, she brought family photo albums…for the first time in 52 years I finally see who I resemble. She also mentioned that there are a LOT of women in her family who have thyroid issues. My theory is that these people are genetically mutated for survival during rough times.
I saw many pics of my biological father, from his high school yearbook photo up through last year’s family Christmas pic. He is NOT doing well health-wise, he’s only 70 years old (looks like he’s 106, except he’s too fat for that) AND they’ve just put him in a full time care home. He’s morbidly obese, diabetic and demented, had strokes etc. His mother died of Alzheimer’s too.
I asked my aunt when his dementia started, she said it started when he was about 60 or so, it occurred after a VERY stressful event. The 2008 collapse destroyed much of his business….and apparently his health.
This has been a fascinating and sad journey for sure, but I’m committed to finding a way to alter my inherited genetic expression.
So far T3, magnesium, B vitamins, plenty of sun or D3, K2, progesterone, coffee, aspirin, good nutrition and (perhaps MOST IMPORTANT) living a STRESS-FREE life are the things that help me the most.
Hi Magic Maker- Thanks for sharing your story about discovering your family. It must be a very exciting experience.
As far as magnesium goes – I always say, if there was a fire in my house I’d run back in for my magnesium (malate & glycinate) – LOL. Yes, I take it every day. And I’ve been told not to take thyroid meds within 2 hours of taking magnesium, so that’s been my practice. I was on natural desiccated thyroid, but I found that I had high reverse T3- which means the t4 wasn’t converting to active T3 – so my doc made the switch (when I taught him about RT3- lol). It’s MUCH cheaper as well! And my blood work seems good now.
As far as genetics goes, I love reading about Mind/Body medicine – Bruce Lipton, Candace Pert and others say that genetics is not necessarily your destiny. I practice meditation every day, and there have been some positive changes, but not my weight or shape. I still am pretty active (I’m addicted to tennis).
But what I will recommend is reading Lynne McTaggart’s latest book: The Power of 8. It’s beyond amazing: it’s astonishing. And I personally know the researcher who has PROVEN without a doubt that this stuff works….. I haven’t asked for my group to help with my weight yet…. I’ll let you all know when/if I do.
Keep in touch- (especially if you want to join our group!)
Magic Maker and Lianda —
I hit the thyroid dysfunction jackpot and have both Hashimoto’s and Graves’ (autoimmune HYPERthyroidism) — have had both for many years, and it’s quite the balancing act. I’ve read everything I could get my hands on and have tried all sorts of approaches. The short story re: meds is that I started out on a synthetic T4/T3 preparation, then went to different glandulars, then started asking for my RT3 levels to be tested and switched to T3 only, and now I’m back to T4/T3.
Are you familiar with Elaine Moore? She’s a medical researcher with 30+ years of experience, focusing largely on thyroid conditions. She says that the pituitary benefits most by having some T4 that it can then convert to T3 (that’s a separate issue from whether your body tissues are converting the hormones properly). She’s a fan of glandulars, when they are possible. She also says that the RT3 thing is much misunderstood and that our levels are constantly and dramatically changing by things like just standing up.
Just yesterday, she posted an article about sorting out genetic factors from environmental ones. If you’ve sent in saliva samples to 23andMe, Ancestry, et al., you can submit that data for free to another site that will then analyze the things she refers to.
http://elaine-moore.com/blog/tabid/60/post=12931
Hope that is of some help.
Hi Lianda….Aaah, yes, now I remember you saying you’d run back into your burning home to retrieve your magnesium, lol. (My memory ain’t what it used to be).
I’ve never heard of Lynne McTaggart, I’ll be sure to look her up.
Also, what group are you referring to???
Thanks again!
Hi turtlergurl…thanks for the link to Elaine Moore, I’ll go check her out.
I’m sorry to hear you hit the Thyroid Dysfunction Jackpot, it’s a balancing act for sure!
I have, on occasion, considered adding a tiny bit of T4 back in at night, just to smooth things out, but I only have a prescription for 50 mcg, which I feel is too much…guess I could cut them in half? But then I recall the freezing cold/constipated/effed up menstrual cycle/digestion and depression from hell that occurs when taking T4 and I chicken out.
The group is a Power of 8 group who meet either physically or virtually, at the same time with the exact same “intentional ask” from God (if you are a believer), the Universe, or whatever you belief system is or is not! When you read this book you will see replicated, double blind studies that show how it actually works…. check it out- and all of Lynne McTaggart’s books.
Hi ALL…I’d like to revisit the possibility that weight gain/obesity might be driven by bad gut flora, or perhaps an imbalance between species. Obviously this can be caused by stress alone or overuse of antibiotics, some medications and/or a plethora of environmental toxins/shitty food additives.
I don’t have a clue which microbes are good and which ones are bad, but there’s LOTS of emerging research showing intestinal permeability to be THE active force behind all kinds of body-wide inflammation.
Some people think certain microbes are driving insatiable cravings and the appetite for specific (high reward?) foods.
Maybe an all meat diet or a low carb diet or whatever restrictive diet (fill in the blank) works for people because it lowers their microbial burden and helps to heal and seal the intestinal lining. Grant Genereux cut out A LOT MORE than just vitamin A from his diet.
Anecdotal useless side note: I drank a bunch of kombucha after my walk last night, you know to get the Magical Probies in me…….what a f*cking disaster! I woke in the middle of the night with a blood sugar crash, adrenaline rush followed by a migraine-like headache, itchy ears, mind-racing, inability to sleep which finally some mild gut distress. All of this lasted nearly three hours, like a bad histamine response. I guess I drank the WRONG kind of probiotics. Or maybe my microbes decided to fight for their territory, who knows.
This has happened to me before with kombucha specifically, but also with sauerkraut. You’d think I’d learn by now, apparently I’m brain damaged.
Has anyone here tried or do you currently take probiotics/probiotic foods? If so, have you found them to be helpful for appetite control or specific food cravings?
After having typed all this, I now have a vague feeling of deja vu, like I’ve already asked this question before…oh well. I’m most likely riding the brain cell destruction Merry-Go-Round. Sorry!
I agree that all those things (stress, antibiotics and other medications, environmental toxins, shitty food additives, etc.) impact our gut flora, and, in turn, likely affect weight gain to some degree.
Although the following article is related to infections, I think you may find it interesting.
https://rawlsmd.com/health-articles/chronic-immune-dysfunction-lyme-disease
As for supplemental probiotics, I previously spent lots of time and money scarfing-down bottles of them. (I don’t recall taking PREbiotics.) Personally, I was never able to tell any difference.
So, I would wonder:
– Are these the “wrong” strains?
– Perhaps there’s not enough strains and/or variety?
– Maybe I need to take more total CFUs?
– Is my stomach acid killing them?
– Maybe they weren’t refrigerated and are dead?
– Do I need to spend more on a “better” brand?
Ultimately, like with nearly every other question in my life, I realized I was unlikely to find “THE” answer. So, once I finished my remaining probiotics, I stopped buying them.
Eventually, I also weaned-off most of the 100+ bottles of various supplements I’ve been using (not all at the same time) for Lyme Disease, co-infections, fatigue, and other maladies. Currently, I still take digestive enzymes, intermittently use herbal supplements, and sporadically take a half-dose of a multivitamin.
I see some of the mega-dosing vitamin gurus taking loads of vitamin supplements on a daily basis — in addition to vegetable juicing — with seemingly no ill effects.
Here’s one guy’s daily regimen that I copied right from his own publication:
* Multi-Vitamin – with every meal (breakfast, lunch and dinner), PREFERABLY containing:
– B1, Thiamine – 50 to 75 mg
– B2, Riboflavin – 50 to 75 mg
– B3, Niacinamide – 250 mg
– B6, Pyridoxine – 50 to 75 mg
– B12, Cobalamin – 100 to 150 micro grams
– Pantothenic acid – 100 to 200 mg
– Folic Acid – 0.4 to 0.8 mg
– B7, Biotin – 0.3 to 0.7 mg
– C – 300 mg
– D – 500 iU
– E (D-Alpha) – 50 – 80 iU
– Calcium (citrate) – 100 to 200 mg
– Magnesium(citrate) 50 to 100 mg
– Iodine – 100 micro grams
– Manganese – 3 mg
– Zinc (Citrate) – 15 to 30 mg
– Iron (optional)- No ferrous sulphate, age/ gender dependant for dosage.
– Chromium Picolinate – few micro grams
* ALSO recommend a B-Complex (B50) with breakfast and lunch
– B12, Cobalamin – 50 micro grams
– B7, Biotin – 50 micro grams
– All other B vitamins – 50 mg
* ALSO
[Vitamin A] – Carrot Juice
[Vitamin E] E, D-Alpha, Mixed Tocopherols – 800 IU
[Vitamin C] C – 18,000 mg
[Vitamin D] D3, Cholecalciferol – 5000 IU
[Vitamin K] K – Yogurt
Zinc (Citrate) – 50 mg, twice a day
Lecithin – 1 to 3 tablespoons
Selenium – 25 to 75 micro grams
Fish Oil – 50,000 iU Vitamin A (depends on gender/age)
1200 mg, 2 to 3 a day
That is a LOT of stuff going down the hatch on a daily basis. This person is 63, thin, and has been in the “health” profession for over 40 years.
It’s crazy how many pills he swallows on a daily basis. He “seems” fine, but, still, most of those supplements are not the real thing.
Anyway, that tangent aside, I wanted to encourage you, regarding your gut microbes.
Perhaps you just went too far too quickly, in your attempt to improve/optimize your intestinal flora. Personally, if I introduce foods or beverages I’ve never had — or, not had in a long time — I usually have a strong reaction. Personally, my body doesn’t like abrupt changes.
In fact, I’ve gone from the Hershey’s squirts to bowels of concrete, in just a few days. First, my body stomped the gas pedal. Then, it stomped the brake. Luckily, there were no skid marks. :-)
Sorry, it’s now 4:45 AM and I’m half delirious. So, I think I will go to bed.
Just go low and slow, should you decide to try again.
Oh, did you read Matt’s new blog post yet?
Calories do not matter at all. They honestly do not. Neith3r do ANY of these fictiinal invented made up units-ergs, joules inverse fermiins -pick your favorite fiction. Energy itself does not exist as any kind of entity in Nature. It is a NUMBER.
Calories do not even exist nor are they intrinsic or related to food. The correct view is that food matters to some level but that is dominated by genetics. Food, MADE OF ATOMS-MADE OF MATTER “matters”
You onky have to trak CARBON ATOMS. YOU NE ERMEVER, EVER HA E TO KNOW ANYTHING ABOUT CALORIES. TRACK YOUR CARBON ATOMS. THERE ARE WAYS TO DO THIS.
NO, CALORIES DO NOT MEAN ANYTHING, THEY ARE FICTIONAL. NOR DO INVERSE FERMIINS MATTER, NOR DOES ANY UNIT. CARBON ATOMS MATTER.ENERGY CANNOT POSSIBLY ACT AND MAKE YOU FAT.As Feynman said, saying energy made an object move is AKIN TO SAYING MAGIC did it.
Blazing hot food has more energy, has mkre calories than cold food. It cannot make a given prson fatter. Why? There are no more carbon atoms in it. CARBON ATOMS, NOT calories or joukes etc. Track CARBON. TRACK BREATHS.
Blue light from the sun affects fat cells, zero carbon deficit necessary. You could mechanically apply force and have them disintegrate , as we learn more.
There is nothing i trinsic or necessary as a deficit. Fat cells can be acted on by forces and radiation or surgey even. Many cosmetic procedures exist. This deficit business is a product of fitness industry. Your body could ravage muscle during an CARBON ATOM SHORTAGE. WE eat to replenish carbon matter, being carbon based life.
It is impossibke to fatten extremely skinny people despite eating food around the clock. The most extreme case even more so is Lizzie Velasquez.
Best wishes,
Razz
Physics is what we say.Not what Nature says, said Neils Bohr. There is no “physics principle ” where the removal of fat tissue needs a “deficit”. Surgery coukd remove body fat. Radiation can shrink body fat and cause those fat cells to reales lipid droplets it shrinks tumors. Blood supply coukd be xut off from adipose tissue (no deicit)
When we starve we have a carbon atom shortage. Nothing in physics says we have to lose,fat specifically. In obese peoole fat is often last to go. Fat cells HOARD in cases of extreme onesity.
Solving obesity requires fat cells to DISENGORGE. You coukd starve a Zucker rat to death but he woukd ravage his brain tissue, irgans and muscle while leaving a super,obese fatty body. This creature and others like him, have experienced a severe carbon atom shortage , yet remain obese.
It is carbon entering your booodstream that matters. Calories are fictitious, the measuring of “energy” a number, is wrong often. These calorie labeks are notoriously inaccurate. Whe we measure energy we are measuring FICTION, A NUMBER, human made acxounting trick, not an entity of Nature.
It is not calories or ergs or BTU that matter. It is ATOMS that matter. Honestly, I am not even joking, these units if energy are entirely FICTITIOUS. Nobody can umderstand this. Dr David Katz cannot. Feynman was a cut above. Energy is a NUMBER people assign to actual entities like atoms. Guyenet cannot grasp this. Calories are only a very crude indirect relatiin to amount of carbon atoms.
Track your carbon atoms, forget joules and calories. Track your breaths. Exhalations.
I could guve a way to get a decent idea of the carbon you ingest. Nobody on Earth eats an entity called calories, nobody. Your body does a better job handling carbon than we coukd consciously.
When some idiotic guru like Lyle McDonald says “Hey, calories matter”, what he is really saying is inverse fermions matter, ergs matter, No difference. It is beyond silly. Energy cannot be used causually EVER. Energy cannot act on a human body, it js nkt….anything whatsiever but a number……Our equally fictitious units cannot act on a body either.
You cannot add matter, tissue of ANY sort by eating calories. You cannot eat calories to begin with, nir do calories tranform from nothung, fictitous into tissue. No, what hapoens is this:When we eat, we eat atoms, carbon atoms and others-these ATOMS, OBJECTS, STUFF are either absorbed into our blood through digestion , therefore adding matter to our bodies or not absorbed if sick.
Think of this as carbon atoms being absorbed in the blood. Forget calories, joules, inverse fermions. You could use calories for the Hiroshima explosion.
Here is how to TRACK CARBON ATOMS, WHAT REALLY, REALLY TRULY COUNTS AS THESE atoms ARE NOT FICTION:
Keep track of your protein, fat amd carbohydrate weigh each type on a given day.
MULTIPLY by the fraction that is C,O,and H Add them allll up and you can pretty much know how many GRAMS of carbon you eat in a day.
Aragon and Guyenet get very mad when I corrctly tell them the caloroe model is BULLSHIT and wrong, always was. When I correct Guye et that it is ATOMS that count not fictitious inverse fermions and calories, they get mad, ban me or change the topic. Theybare physics illiterate abusing shysters
Razwell-
Changing the mind of people who “believe” in ‘ calories’, counting calories, and that avoiding certain foods, or dieting and exercise in general is going to be a Herculean task. We are brainwashed from near birth to believe that becoming fat is a character flaw associated with sloth and over-eating – and must be avoided at all costs.
My thin friends and everyone bragging on the internet about how THEY lost weight insist that if you exercise following a particular plan that you will lose weight. They insist that their “weight watchers” routine worked for them (those lucky people in the 5% who maintain weight loss), that it DOES work for EVERYONE. And for those in the 95%, even though their weight came back, and they even gained additional pounds, they blame it on themselves: They stopped following the diet.
This is the perfect scenario for a diet industry that makes over $60 BILLION a year with a failure rate of 95%. It’s the perfect industry to reinforce the notion that women (yes, guys, mostly women) cannot be too thin – and are to be lauded for their ability to keep their weight just a tiny bit over the frame of an anorexic.
And it’s all based on falsehoods. But try to talk reason to a woman who is desperate to lose weight- and has said she’d trade years off her life to lose 10 pounds, and you have a society that is ripe to be manipulated.
I wrote a story that was published on Medium about what happened to me with my weight. https://medium.com/@JusticeGadfly/your-appointment-with-destiny-dba7f0ef6b04
I still pay attention to what people are writing about how they lost weight- and I am waiting for the follow-up story about how they regained it. People rarely admit to it, because they blame themselves and are ashamed. I look at photos of younger, fit and thin people, and then see them years later and they have practically ALL put on weight.
We are disparaged by our doctors when we’re not thin- but when I ask them to tell me what diet actually works, they have the same tired reply: eat less and exercise more. And that’s probably exactly why I was a thin young person, terrified of getting fat (like my mom, who I adored), and now I have become the very thing I feared: fat. But I’ve stopped beating myself up about it and find there are many more important things for me to do with my life than focusing on the YOUniverse of my appearance.
I guess the point is: the medical profession knows NOTHING about why we gain weight, or how to maintain weight loss. They don’t even know what a ?healthy? way to eat is! Furthermore, they spout inaccuracies fed to them by a diet industry that is laughing all the way to the bank.
Very true, Lianda. Justy as genetics is responsible for all of our different bodies and obesity , it also helps these naturally skinny types to stay lean Dr. Friedman talked of that. it is even harder to fatten up or muscle up these super skinny individuals, the very slight people. “The skinny gene”. These people are LUCKY not at all paragons of virtue. Some are lazy. I know this obese woman on my block she works harder than ANYBODY I ever saw- out there hanging onto trees during her one to tow hour walk most days. All of this to no avail. ANY low I.Q. medical doctor who chastises her should be slapped across his testicles with a wet rag LOL !!!!!! She works soooo much harder than the doctor judging her. Doctors cannot figure out obesity and working under very wrong assumptions. Their motto? “Blame the patient!” Divert attention from THEIR failings.
“Calories” ( an old outdated unit many physicists do not even like anymore) have been used for so long. But all these units are totally arbitrary, we could just as easily have used inverse fermions or horsepower hours or kilowatt hours or ergs or foot-pounds or mega-cycles!. Richard Phillips Feynman , the late great physicist is on record saying we do not need anymore of these silly fictional inventions- ALLL of these silly units. Just use one common unit.
Many medical doctors do not understand we cannot make an energy beam because energy is a totally abstract mathematical fiction. We could make an electron beam or photon beam – stuff. Laser beams are not energy beams. We cannot damage human flesh with “energy” only stuff can act.
There are people out there who genuinely believe there is this nebulous invisible stuff in food called calories. There is no hope for them. LOL !
It ‘s carbon. Carbon is hard to excrete and handle , to excrete fast versus water which is eliminated easily and fast by healthy people. 17,000 exhalations for something like .05 grams of carbon.
I ate many tasty MEGA-CYCLES today LOL !!!!!!!!!!! What I really did was eat and digest and absorb a host of various atoms in my blood some of which were excreted very fast given the absurd amount of water I drank.
Best wishes,
Razz
Hi Lianda : )
Hope my other comment got through. Good points. I did the wrong e-mail address . Whoops. Hopefully, Matt sees it.
Hi Razwell- I learned that humans are “carbon based” creatures a long time ago- from Star Trek! LOL
Hi Lianda,
Thank you for such insightful comments. I have had such similar experiences. At the moment, I need to get into a better frame of mind about my appearance–I have managed to put it into proper perspective before, but then I start getting down on myself again. Right now, I’m rather pissed off and hurt at the same time. I’m angry at some people who are important in my life for their frequent callous comments about other people. Every time they refer to someone else as a “fat pig” or “lard ass” I know they are talking about me too. I’m stunned that they can’t see how hurtful such comments are. I’ve had conversations with these people about just how devastating such comments are and for a while they stop. But then they forget. It’s because, as you say, they have a deeply ingrained believe that extra fat is a character flaw and if all us fatties would just eat/act the way they do we wouldn’t be so fat. Even though I know from repeated personal experiences that it’s not true, it’s hard not to fall into that trap myself at times. Interestingly, I’ve actually been losing excess fat at a rather constant, though slow pace since June by eating for heat, taking taurine, and reducing vitamin A. You’d think I’d be thrilled and at times I am–maybe I’m just in a bad mental state right now. Thank you again for the reassurance that starvation is not the way to health.
The handling, processing and PARTITIONING of food , NOR WHAT TISDUE is exrected and lost to the surrounding environment during an ” atom shortage ” (what is really ocurring) is not even REMOTELY addressed by physics as the phony gurus claim.
Honestly :This is purely a biochemical genetic question and highly induvidualized situation.
I have gotten my info from cream of the crop Nobel physics legends, plus Dr. Peter M. Hoffmann. Guyenet and Aragon are absolutely abusing/misunderstanding/misusung physics and” teh thetmodynamikz”(deliberately misspelled) to hold onto his calorie model….
@EXTREMELY CRUCIAL STATEMENT :This (the gain/creation and loss of body fat and muscle tissue are extremely involved biochemical processes, obesity is N O T a thermodynamics issue. (EXACT WORDS) This statement was guven to me loud and clear by tge BEST in thermodynamics recommended to me by MIT professors.
I have 100 emails in my possesion from top physicists about this topic since 2009.i could write a book ! LOL! Nobody on the Internet has looked into this topic of physucs abuse by “obesity scientists”as much as I have, even obsessively the last 10 years almost every single day at least once. This whole calorie nonsense is out of hand , so much misinformation and common wisdom (an oxymoron)
Razwell- I hope you’ll be able to do me a favor- since it’s been quiet on the blog for a while, I have a request. I’ve been answering questions on Quora, and I have a guy who won’t quit giving me the same standard line: calories in, calories out…. crap.
I’m tired of writing. Would you be willing to answer him? I’ll attach his statement below:
Frank Basile replied to your comment on “Skinny people stay that way because they won the ‘thin lottery?. It’s their body type – and they …”:
“No, Lianda, what I’m saying is that the fluctuations are to your METABOLISM. I said that before and I’m saying it again.
You’re just saying stress causes weight gain. How? By what mechanism? Magical weight gain elves? Metabolism is literally ?calories out. It’s what you burn in a day. A fluctuation metabolism changes how many calories are burned in a day.
A calorie is a measure of energy. Excess energy is stored as fat. To burn fat you have to expend more energy than you have coming in. It would be moronic to say anything otherwise because where is the energy going to come from? Muscle? Water? Where? It doesn’t matter, because you’ll still be burning weight. This is why I made the distinction between burning fat and burning muscle as opposed to ?losing weight. There is a difference.”
Have a go at him…. https://www.quora.com/How-do-skinny-people-stay-skinny-all-the-time/answers/102629511/comment/75124740?__nsrc__=4&__snid3__=3336559639
Stop engaging him. He has no interest in ‘getting it.’
He’s probably there to just pull your chain, as long as you dangle it out there for him.
I answered him and that will be my one and only. He’ll be talking to himself from now on.
Hey, AnnB:
I haven’t checked-in on the comments for this post in a while, but I’ve been thinking about you lately, as I’ve continued to see more and more carnivore blogs and videos.
Just now, I was seasoning a ribeye to cook and thinking back to your experiment, your comments, and your husband. So, while it was on my mind, I decided to come in here are see how things are going for you, your diet, and your husband.
* Are you still following a meat-only diet?
* If so, do you continue to have positive benefits?
* If so, any negative experiences?
* Did your husband ever follow your example?
I hope you’re both doing well. I’d love to hear from you, if you’re so inclined.
Best wishes,
Carl
Hi Carl,
Yes, still eating meat-only.
I do still drink coffee and still drink it like I have for several years…with gelatin dissolved in 3/4 cup cold water first, then add about 1 cup of coffee through the Keurig (son gave us his old one) using regular coffee grounds with a refillable cup lined with a teeny paper filter.
I love having stronger fingernails now.
I heat it all through in the microwave and then add cream to taste. Actually, I splurge and use heavy cream and a half again as much half-n-half. I like the taste.
My husband followed me about a month after me (me May 18, him 2nd or 3rd week of June). His Type 2 diabetes blood sugars were too high. He wasn’t making any effort to change his diet and didn’t at the outset of his diagnosis several years ago.
The point of decision for him was being told he now needed to use insulin. That was a big NO for him. So, I just invited him to eat as I do.
He’d already witnessed that I had dropped nearly 15 pounds of edema and nearly 2 clothing sizes…with no signs of stopping. AND I’d never said I’d changed my diet, except if he happened to bring an extra hot sandwich home and I declined.
Prepping and eating food is so simple.
He was still a little scared from being told saturated fat would kill him. Because his doctors still believed the saturated fat lies…he had a heart attack in 2012 and 2-3 bypasses.
He is feeling better. His blood sugars dropped quickly from 250+/- to 150s and now range in the 90s to 120s.
Not yet steady, and the range for ‘diabetes’ or pre-diabetes is so narrow now, that nearly everyone is diagnosed.
Even when in the 90s he feels good…when before he’d be weak and wobbly.
He’d lost a lot of muscle and weight with the Type 2 Diabetes, and now he’s shaping up. I think now he might be gaining some muscle. He complained just today that he’s gained 3 pounds in the last week or so. I said it’s probably muscle building and just go by how his clothes fit.
The arthritis that made his hands all mottled red and lumpy has improved. No more redness and most lumps are gone or minute.
His multitude of complaints…aches and pains is greatly reduced. He’s had many injuries over his lifetime: shoulder dislocated (kids tossing him in a lake when he cannot swim), knee surgeries as a teen, 4 back surgeries, (broken back in auto accident age 21 was probably the precursor), fractured tibia 3 years ago.
He has a few spots from the old injuries that act up, but some of that is the body now being able to heal them.
I continue to lose pounds (very slowly) and inches. Have regained/grown muscle WITHOUT exercise and am about as active as before. However, when doing housework etc. I can work longer and need one night of sleep to recover rather than days.
I also sleep inclined and I don’t plan to lower my mattress..ever.
I don’t mentally or physically groan to get up out of my chair anymore. I just do it. It is no effort.
My need for Vitamin D3/K2 has lessened to now I don’t even think about it or need it. Bladder is a happy camper, keeping me dry..no leaks for any reason. No choking on saliva with strangled coughing.
All reflux is gone, gone, gone.
I feel younger and no longer have the feeling of dread (like my days were numbered in the double digits-it was stretching to consider triple digits) that I had before I began this diet.
I just turned 63 last month.
Thank you for asking. If you want to follow any of my posts, you can read them at the Facebook group Zeroing In On Health. The posts are public.
Although, what I relayed here is the same as there.
Oh, yes….we raise beef, but don’t currently have any of that in our freezer. Until then, we’ve been buying meat in bulk (% off for bulk purchases) the beef tri-tip …under $5# or the Pork Loin or Pork Shoulder/Butt both around $1.50# in bulk. The pork loins roasts are $1.69 in the four pack when not bought in bulk.
The pork shoulder/butt is the most tender….what the meat man said people use for pulled pork. I hate shredded pork, just roast it and slice it…much more tender.
My husband likes bacon and eggs for breakfast often and will hanker for chicken. I’m good with the same meat of pork or the beef day in and day out for weeks. Although, I did have some preformed ground beef fried up from URM last week.
Ground beef didn’t taste good to me when I first started eating only meat, so I was actually surprised when it tasted fine again. Possibly because I didn’t season it in any way.
I also no longer season any of my meats. Just eat it as is, or have my ‘coffee’ to sip between bites.
To clarify…I didn’t season the ground beef this time…which I did early on. It tastes better unseasoned/unsalted.
Hi, AnnB:
Thanks so much for taking the time to respond — and, for doing so in such great detail! I’m really thrilled to hear you’re doing so well and that your husband is now on the road to recovery, too! That’s all fantastic news!
I have to give you credit for causing me to reconsider the diet and look at it again. Whether the diet is right for everyone in all cases, I can’t say. However, your experiences are compelling. And now, thankfully, so are those of your husband.
One thing I noticed, halfway through my ribeye, this evening: It totally squashed my hunger.
I could have (perhaps, should have) stopped after eating half, as I was completely 100% full/satisfied. But, because the taste was so good, I ate the remainder of it. Then, I was stuffed. Now, a couple of hours later, I’m ready to go to sleep. That’s a good thing for me, as I usually feel “wired” late into the night.
Typically, I would have eaten a bigger meal (volume and calories), but not been as satisfied as I was after only the ribeye.
A steak often feels a bit heavy on my stomach/digestive system, but I do great with ground beef. So, I may try a few days of just ground beef to see how I feel. I think my digestive machinery could use a tune up.
Again, I’m so glad you continue to do well and I congratulate your husband on his astounding drop in blood sugar! His also being sturdier and adding-back some muscle is also fantastic news. We don’t want to get weak and frail in our golden years. Or, we want to minimize the muscle/bone loss, at least.
Thanks for the tips on the cuts of meat, too. Today, when buying the ribeye, I was grousing about the cost. But, after thinking about it, if I’m not buying all the other stuff I normally buy, even paying retail for 1-2 steaks or 1-2 lbs. of ground beef a day is still cheaper.
Since the posts on the ZIOH page are public (I don’t have a Facebook account), I may pop on there from time-to-time to look for your posts and see what else is happening.
I wish you and hubby much continued success, health, and happiness!
Sincerely,
Carl
Great Carl!
Yes, meat is satisfying. And the stop eating signal is generally when meat no longer tastes good…so I’m pleased to read you followed your body’s desire to finish the steak.
At the group some of the members call it ‘Thanksgiving’ stuffed. But it really is better than a mixed meal stuffed. The stuffed only lasts a short time because just meat digests so quickly.
And you also found the cost balance. Meat vs the actual higher cost, space and time and wasted/uneaten (fresh or processed) of a mixed diet.
I just signed out of FB so I could see what it looks like to a person without a FB account. I can see the group and scroll the posts, but I am unable to search the Files or Group or to ‘Like.’
The address for anyone interested. https://www.facebook.com/groups/zioh2/
Calling in Razwell to go nuke some CICOtard. That’s awesome Lianda.
Hahahaha! I was thinking like : SIG Him Razwell! His head will be spinning and it will screw up HIS metabolism for weeks thanks to Razwell!
(you can see we need you to post another blog, Matt!)
https://www.1843magazine.com/features/death-of-the-calorie
Woohoo, the calorie is finally dead!! We all heard it hear first of course and Razwell will be pleased ;)
I’m in the beginning stages of implementing some Peat suggestions into my life. I won’t be going down the OJ, Mexican coke, High sugar route but will be adding in Progesterone (waiting on blood tests for baseline). Have commenced Whole Raw milk (in much smaller amounts than the last time I went raw – something similar to Matt’s experiment, which is where I think I got the idea to start with 10 years or so ago:).
I’d also like to thank whoever linked Prof. Eran Segal’s youtube video. This is something similar I’ve explored before but used Ketone measures (Beta Hydroxy Butate strips) instead of the glucose strips because I was of course zero carb at the time!
Just brought a box of 100 glucose strips and going to start testing temps, BPM and glucose from tomorrow. I’m just looking for what the best time after eating a meal is for taking all the measurements. Any suggestions welcome.
BTW this thread is the most epic thing I’ve read on the internet. It’s taken me well over a week to get through all the comments and I’ve spent 2 full days on it plus most evenings bed time reading. Beats any book I’ve read lately. Thanks for everyone’s input!
I had posted about this about a month ago- just checking in again to see if anyone has committed to eating for your blood type (Eat Right 4 Your Type; by D’Adamo) – it is not a diet, but a lifestyle/list of foods that are beneficial to weight loss/health and others that are toxin in certain bodies. Also, has anyone read Ari Whiten’s book Forever Fat Loss? (about Permanent -fat- loss) He writes, explains about the body fat set point. Also, has anyone read Bruce Lipton’s books (I watched a couple of his you tube videos) the biology of belief… according to his findings, there is a HUGE mind-body connection (stress-cortisol-disease) ….
@bg: I’ve only read Whitten’s book, but it was a long time ago. There wasn’t anything revolutionary in it, he talked about the calorie flux idea, which basically says that exercising and dieting at the same time is better than just Dieting (because u can eat more calories that way). Not true in my experience since exercise gives me a ravenous appetite.
I don’t think anyone here gives the Blood Type Diet much thought other than “sounds like bullshit.” I admit, I probably should have been a little more open to it.
Yes, I’ve read Ari’s work (was just emailing him this morning) and Bruce Lipton’s as well.
What about a Matt Ston-esq IF – intermittent feasting? Instead of 5:2 with 2 days at 6000 calories.. Have you tried this frequency? Or alternating days of extra-high calories with normal?
Ah, my greater and less than symbols didn’t work. It meant to say, “instead of 5:2 with 2 days of less than 600 calories, it could be 2 days of 6000 plus calories.
Just saw an interview of Dave Asprey pushing his latest book. Any time I see or hear him, I find myself thinking “What a D-bag”.
So now, my mind automatically transposes his name to Dave Ass-bag.
Or maybe D-bag asPREY (as in “I will prey on your vulnerabilities and take your money”) would be even more accurate.
I see the best way to lose weight is to eat a lot of vegetables and fruits to limit fat.