I had to laugh as the Mayor of Hair Danny Roddy contacted me, wondering if I had heard what was being said about me at this year’s Weston A. Price Foundation conference this past weekend. I had not, but I followed his lead and snooped around on Twitter where there was a tidbit about Stephan Guyenet being asked about overfeeding reducing insulin resistance.
?Ah, you’ve been reading Matt Stone,? he said, or something along those lines. ?Overfeeding does NOT decrease insulin resistance. I don’t know where he got that idea from.
Well, I figured this was a good opportunity to share exactly where I got that idea from, and why I believe it to be so as it is defined here.
First of all, ?overfeeding? is a misnomer and I should probably stop using it. ?Overfeeding, in the medical literature, means giving someone a closely-monitored increase in calories above their normal, weight-maintenance requirement. When people embark upon RRARF, my program that you can learn how to RAISE YOUR METABOLISM, calories are not monitored. Rather, one is asked to eat at least to the satisfaction of the natural appetite and perhaps a little BEYOND appetite. I don’t say to force feed, but explicitly say to ?eat as much as you can ENJOY.
For many, this may equate to overfeeding. For others, maybe not. When eating an exclusively whole foods diet, particularly when switching out fibrous starchy foods for refined sugar and eating foods with no flavor enhancers, calorie consumption often spontaneously decreases. Although I would say that cases in which people lose weight doing RRARF is an indicator that calorie consumption decreased, I’ve also found this to be untrue ? as one person in particular reported increasing calorie intake from 1,000 per day to 2,200-2,500 per day and losing 14 pounds in 2 months time. It is unpredictable, and since all the factors relevant to weight loss, calorie consumption, insulin sensitivity, and so on are not measured ? no real verifiable conclusions can be made.
But I’m not Walter Willett, and I cannot have whatever I could possibly dream up to do a study on actually be sponsored and take place. I must resort to monitoring what actually happens to people when they follow this advice.
So is RRARF overfeeding? Who cares. It’s the unrealistic fiber-free fructose and corn oil-laden studies on overfeeding (a good way to develop hepatic insulin?resistance like Morgan Spurlock did)’that are irrelevant, not the real-life experiences and health impacts that people have who are trying the recommendations I’ve laid out in RRARF based on my own research, theories, experimentation, and personal observation.
Anyway, let’s back up a moment. I first got the idea that eating MORE food could reconcile insulin resistance while reading Schwarzbein’s books. In those books, it’s not necessarily insulin being spiked by high-calorie loads, fat interfering with glucose uptake, or carbohydrates that cause resistance to insulin. In fact, Schwarzbein goes on and on about how cortisol, elevated by things such as undereating, undersleeping, or overexercising (all things addressed as part of RRARF), can be a player in the development of metabolic syndrome. She states, explicitly for those with insulin resistance and weight problems, that they should be ?eating more food, more often.
Once again, since Schwarzbein is a practicing endocrinologist, she was actually able to see how this advice performs on basic tests such as glucose tolerance, cortisol levels, insulin levels, and so forth. Real experience and real observation with real people living in the real world.
This idea was greatly strengthened when I read Russ Farris and Per Marin’s The Potbelly Syndrome. I consider these two gentlemen to be some of the finest researchers out there. The book of course was about the hormone cortisol and contained the following passage:
??insulin resistance leads to weight gain, but most health professionals believe that the opposite is true. If obesity does cause insulin resistance, then we would expect people who are overfed to become more insulin resistant, but that is not the case. Researchers in Indianapolis overfed six slender, active, young adults for several weeks? Five of the six subjects became LESS insulin resistant!
This made perfect sense to me as I had been studying the wacky world of obesity research at the time, and overfeeding resulted in a drop in hunger, a rise in metabolism, and difficulty gaining more fat the more fat subjects gained. In other words, overfeeding brought about the triggering of mechanisms that made the body work hard AGAINST fat gain, and induce fat loss. Doesn’t sound like what I know of insulin resistance, which suggests that insulin resistance leads to hunger, reduced metabolism, increased propensity to store fat, and so forth.
Likewise, with underfeeding as in Ancel Keys’s The Biology of Human Starvation, underfeeding made the men ravenously hungry, store fat at an incredible rate ? particularly in the abdominal region indicative of insulin resistance, without building back muscle tissue, and other signs of insulin resistance, not sensitivity. Only after binge eating on pies, pastries, and dairy products up to 7,000 calories per day and gaining a ton of body fat did they rebuild their lost muscle mass and start to spontaneously lose body fat at an amazing rate (while still continuing to gain lean mass) eating to appetite.
In other words, underfeeding made them gain belly fat eating to appetite. Overfeeding made them lose belly fat eating to appetite. It’s not really that wild of a concept, and knowing how well the human body defends against a shift away from its weight set point, it should be no surprise that gaining weight via overfeeding causes the body to become more insulin sensitive, which increases muscle building and heat production, minimizes fat storage even in the face of massive calorie intakes as was witnessed in the famous Ethan Sims overfeeding study, while decreasing appetite.
Anyway, overfeeding lowers cortisol just as underfeeding raises it. The effects of overfeeding and underfeeding mirror one another. Even a book as scientifically straightforward as Lyle McDonald’s Ultimate Diet 2.0 lays out a simple chart of hormonal changes that take place during overfeeding vs. underfeeding. Underfeeding increases cortisol. Overfeeding decreases it.
This is the presumed mechanism, considering that cortisol blocks the action of insulin and leptin for that matter which is even more significant (and probably why underfeeding causes the weight set point to rise), that makes changes in weight a negative feedback system. This was the whole point of Russ Farris and Per Marin’s book, which can be summarized as: ?Hypercortisolism causes insulin resistance, dummy, not carbs or eating too much.
Overall the best sign of improved insulin sensitivity is improved glucose clearance from the blood after eating. I was so captivated by overfeeding’s potential surprise ability to improve insulin resistance, that I tried RRARF while monitoring my blood glucose levels and found my postprandial blood glucose readings to drop by more than 25% after just 30 days. Even two baked potatoes at a 1,000+ calorie feast couldn’t send my blood sugar above 75 mg/dl by the end of it, and I gained abdominal fat in the process, which is even more out of synch with the misinterpretations of the scientific literature held by most researchers.
Of course, many of you that have gone through the rigors of testing your own blood glucose levels witnessed the same thing while eating beyond appetite of whole foods. Martin, Lisa, Sheri and her husband, and Undertow come to mind. Sheri for example, writes:
“My temps are great going from 96.4 up to 97.8 and even 98.0 on some days. During ovulation I was 98.5-98.7. My fasting glucose started in the low 100’s and has only dropped to a consistent 93, better but I still obviously need it lower. Then my 1 hour postprandial glucose reading jumps all over from 199 at first and then on different days 140’s or 150’s. It has been in the 110’s and low 120’s lately and I get excited it’s improving but then will jump up to the 140’s again. I sleep a million times better, have less joint pain from an autoimmune disease and didn’t have cramps during my period for the first time in years. I have gained 5 unwanted pounds but oh well. My husband has increased his temps from 95.9 to between 97.0 – 97.5 depending on the day and also sleeps a million times better. Poor thing really packed it on with a whopping .2 pound gain- not even a half a pound. His fasting glucose has stayed even at around 87. His postprandial glucose readings have gone from the 120’s and 130’s to a typical 103. We have nothing negative to say about our experience so far and are very thankful to you, Matt.”
I also just received some harder data from Chris Sandel of www.seven-health.com/
You can and read about him here: http://www.seven-health.com/about-us/
I went through his extensive data, and there is no question that his glucose clearance improved during the 30 some odd days he spent doing RRARF. To get some figures, I went through his data and did some averaging. I compared the readings from the first half of his month on RRARF to the 2nd half of his month on RRARF, and took averages and compared them. Here are the changes:
Weight Increase: 0.4 kg (insignificant)
Basal body temperature increase: Very slight from 35.81 C to 35.98 C
Fasting glucose: -4.6% from 98 mg/dl to 93 mg/dl
1-Hour postprandial glucose: -10.5% from 115 mg/dl to 103 mg/dl
2-Hour postprandial glucose: -10.9% from 119 mg/dl to 106 mg/dl
It’s also of interest that his highest 2-hour postprandial reading, which I view to be the most significant, was typically higher, and sometimes much higher than his 1-hour postprandial test towards the beginning of the experiment. This is an almost sure sign of impaired glucose metabolism, but all in all his numbers are decent for an endurance athlete taking a break (which as I’ve described in the past, from my own experience, as being a tough transition).
By the end he was able to reverse that on most days, but still has a little way to go before it’s perfected.
His highest 2-hour postprandial test was on days #9 and #10 of the experiment, which is probably pretty typical. On both of those days, his 2-hour reading was 135 mg/dl.
His lowest reading was on Day 30 of the experiment at a mere 97 mg/dl ? roughly the same as his fasting level at the beginning of the experiment.
So that’s that. Maybe you can’t?pinpoint what I’m talking about in the medical literature. Maybe what I’m saying doesn’t make sense with everything you’ve studied or been led to believe. Maybe you view this as poorly-controlled information (which it is) and thus unscientific and irrelevant.
But this is real and is really happening in the real world to real people, which, at the end of the day, is what really counts. Former extreme tater-hater 180-Katie summed it up best when she wrote to me:
?Finally, my blood sugar control is better. A lot better! I have no idea why eating starch would improve my blood sugar control like this, but it does. It could be elf magic or nanobots for all I care, it works!
I know I sound like a broken record on comments sometimes. But I have been stuffing myself 3 to 4 times a day, eating 20 to 30 lbs of potatoes a week for example for close to 14 months now. My weight gain peaked at 10 lbs in the first 3 months; which was 196. It is now at 190, and stable for months. Net gain of 4lbs, after one year VLC previous to starting RRARF. I still have not done any exercise other then walking. I will add that I am 6'2 in height.
Only two major issues I have, which I hope will heal in the coming years are the lingering acne, and improved digestion. I tried non-sweetened kefir several months back, but thinking I will add very large daily amounts and see what happens. Recent comments got me thinking about that.
Minor issue is complete restful sleep.
I just need to replace batteries in my glucose monitor. I will post some results soon, curious to see where my numbers are now. Here are my last results at 5 months RRARFin:
Morning Fasted BG: 85 mg/dl
1hr Post Meal BG Avg: 103 mg/dl
I find forums to easy *not* to follow. Comments have a more community feel as we all stick to the thread. I use thunderbird to scrape all my RSS feeds, you can sort by name, date, etc… that is another option for blog reading (plus you have all the comments offline; 3649 as of Jul 28, 2010 when I re-installed).
So that’s that. Maybe you can’t pinpoint what I’m talking about in the medical literature. Maybe what I’m saying doesn’t make sense with everything you’ve studied or been led to believe. Maybe you view this as poorly-controlled information (which it is) and thus unscientific and irrelevant.
But this is real and is really happening in the real world to real people, which, at the end of the day, is what really counts
Funny, that's what I said. :-)
I am fairly new here and loving all this great info. I started RRARF b/c it makes so much sense to me. Everything doesn't always have to be " proven" to mean it works– we sure know what the diet industry is selling doesn't work.
@undertow, I keep hearing of people continuing RRARF for well over a month, why so long? I thought ideally it was for a month?
I am having a hard time losing weight after my 4th baby. I just have about 15 stubborn pounds to lose. rRARF does make sense for me, right? My baby is 13 months old, btw.
When I started reading 180 Degree Health about a year ago my glucose was hovering dangerously in the 400-500 range. I was doing "low carb" at the time. After making adjustments in my diet to include starch in proportion to protein (with the fat intact)and eating to appetite my sugars are now in the 200s. Big difference. As I continue to heal I expect to overcome my Type II diabetes completely. Sorry Stephan G. I do what works. That's pretty smart of me, yes?
I just continued to overfeed because it felt like my body still needed this. I really don't have signals telling me to exercise yet. I guess the simple answer is it still feels good, and i feel that it is aiding in rebuilding my SAD diet destroyed metabolism.
Most people seem to have their basal temp and BG levels tapered up and down within a few months. My underarm basal had peaked at 97.2 in the first few months and has stayed there. Took my basal this morn, and 97.2 was the reading.
Weight gain is stable, so I will continue to pound nutrient dense real food, and when it is too cold to walk, I think I will start to implement some type of metabolic training and get back to the heavy lifting. I will track my basal after starting this as well.
Congrats on baby number 4! Give RRARF a try, you may gain at first or lose, just stick to real food and eat to appetite. You may see benefits quick, or like some it may take time.
@Lisa S, Great to hear those numbers are coming down!
I have been doing very light weight training for two weeks now, and of all things, I noticed a great deal of belly strength today.
That has never happened before.
Temps are now up to 97.8 in the morning and 98.6 thru the day!!
And I have stopped taking my afternoon desiccated thyroid with excelllent success.
Keep us this great blog.
I'm no scientist, but I am a gym nut and obsessively watch what I eat, so I think there is some validity to my n-1 sample:
For 12 years, I ran obsessively and monitored my calories like a hawk. At first my weight went down to 165. (I'm 6'2" and large-framed) I was a beanpole. But then, my weight slowly crept up. No matter what I couldn't fight it. I was soon 180 lbs and stayed around there. I always felt awful. Depressed. My hands and feet were freezing. My feet used to get so cold I had to dip them in a hot bath or I thought they would fall off.
After reading your blog, I cut out all Omega-6. I eat burgers, lasagna, fruit, veggies, bread, butter, and ice cream. All sorts of evil saturated fat! Ha! I rest. I do some weight training. I take long walks. No excessive running. I quit drinking coffee to get my cortisol down.
I now have a flat stomach! And I don't do anything! I don't even know how to do sit ups properly!
I thought it wasn't supposed to be this way. I thought I should get fatter. I thought my metabolism would've slowed (I'm in my mid-30s now). Not so.
Matt – I don't give a **** what anybody says about you at a conference, you are on to something! Keep up the good work!
Balls… hey at least you were mentioned at the Conference!!! Ever since the hard core eating last year, i have to force myself to do refeeds because my appetite control is so good. Still at a 158lbs and lean… eating alot of whole foods, and some sugar in ice cream or lattes… i just have to figure out how to make money in a ethical way now… my menial jobs aren't getting me by anymore… life costs alot these days… blah.
Nice post. I had been searching for the same quote by Sheri, and thank you for finding it.
What are your thoughts about Kurt Harris' theory about overfeeding increasing insulin sensitivity? Kurt believes that overfeeding builds muscle tissue, and more muscle tissue allows more glucose to be converted into glycogen in muscle, thus increasing peripheral insulin sensitivity.
I remember that Undertow had said in his blog that he has gained lean body mass and lost fat while overfeeding, even though his weight has stayed the same. It would be interesting to figure out how much his lean muscle gains have contributed to his increased insulin sensitivity.
I'm not saying that building muscle mass alone will increase insulin sensitivity. There are many other explanations of how this would come about. It would be more interesting if we'd analyze additional factors contributing to insulin sensitivity, such as the hormones adiponectin and resistin, nutrition, stress, PUFA load, and other factors.
Don't get me wrong, I support the theory that overfeeding on whole foods increases insulin sensitivity. I think it's a simplistic theory that the general public can understand. I was just curious about the biochemistry of how the body increases its insulin sensitivity on HED.
Organism as a Whole,
technically speaking that would equal out to the same thin as insulin sensitivity would make muscles more receptive to growth and more muscle would automatically need more nutrients and allow for more sensitivity really your just posing the which came first the chicken or the egg question as they are both interrelated.
kudos great post the overfeeding misnomer statement is one that i have to high 5 … really wish there was a good word for what it really is. when people say to me … ok so you overeat …Im like, no, actually you are under-eating!! under-eating is really easy to do while true overeating is not really possible under normal condition the body adjust for slight "overages" and lashes back when you attempt major "overages" so technically it never happens because the body compensates.
Haters gonna hate. At least people are taking note which is key. Apparently the WAPF conference was like a CrossFit/Paleo conference anyway…..
Need to get me a BG monitor, the only reason I have abstained is that I don't want to get too obsessed with my readings.
One thing is for sure though, my BS is more stable. When I first transitioned from Paleo to HED or just eating carbs again to appetite I would get pretty bad blood sugar symptoms after meals (racing mind, palpitations, anxiety, shaky) this has all but disappeared and it took a while (2-3 months until things tapered off).
Now I can eat pretty much what I like, blood sugar feels stable after eating. And although my temps aren't super high (similar to undertows story) my weight has dropped naturally and I eat a lot of food and stay lean and pretty muscular. doing 2 or 3 20 minute circuit training style workouts a week plus stretching. I enjoy walking around the place, so fit in a fair amount of walking.
Still got adrenal problems though – Fruit makes me shaky on its own or when I have too much, coffee also makes me shaky (I used to be able to drink cups on end with no effect). And my tolerance to stress isn't what it once was but I am guessing patience will pay off when it comes to healing the adrenals. Although I sometimes question whether they will regain the strength of old :(
Hello Lisa, following what works is definitely the top priority over what you read or hear – even if it comes from your doctors.
– Mamie Eldridge
What? Stephan doesn't know that overfeeding on carbs increases insulin sensitivity?
There have been several studies on icreased carbohydrate consumption and insulin sensitivity, since the 20-ies onward. These studies lay the ground for changing the low/lower carb diabetic diet (40% carbs) to high/higher carbs in the 80-ies.
Of course, overfeeding on fructose and n-6 oils does cause insulin resistance, while overfeeding on glucose causes increased insulin sensitivity (and glucose metabolism).
HC [high carb] overfeeding resulted in changes compatible with increased insulin sensitivity. In contrast, molecular changes in HF [high fat] overfeeding were compatible with a reduced insulin sensitivity.
Carbohydrate [glucose] overfeeding produced progressive increases in carbohydrate oxidation and total energy expenditure resulting in 75-85% of excess energy being stored. Alternatively, fat overfeeding had minimal effects on fat oxidation and total energy expenditure, leading to storage of 90-95% of excess energy. Excess dietary fat leads to greater fat accumulation than does excess dietary carbohydrate, and the difference was greatest early in the overfeeding period.
Since renewing my interest in IF after some of Chief's posts, I was looking back to what I did wrong previously on IF. It worked for awhile then after a period of time, I would start gaining weight. Yesterday I dusted off my old copy of the Warrior Diet and the big theme that Ori Hofmekler pushes is that during the day, you UNDEReat and in the evening, you OVEREAT! This was the factor that messed me up before as I would think that the spontaneous reduction in calorie consumption (sound familiar?) was something that should be pursued. Ori says over eat for 6-8 hours, Martin Berkhan says that his eating window is 8 hrs for men and 10 hrs for women, IIRC. So both of these guys are on the same page. So how am I doing on this? I gained about 3 pounds and lost about a half inch off my waist. And I make sure to eat in that whole window, even if I'm not hungry. If it's late and I'm not hungry, I pull a Ray Peat and eat some cheese and drink some OJ. The secret? OVEREATING.
Funny you got wind of that question. I was nervous speaking in front of the audience and Stephen, and so I stated it a bit awkwardly. I asked about the relationship between leptin and insulin resistance and set point, and specifically about ways to lower set point. I wanted to know whether it was accurate that being above your set point reduces insulin and/or leptin resistance, and whether that could result in an ultimate lowering of the set point, also whether there were any other established ways to lower the set point.
To which Stephen replied that I must have been reading you and he wasn't sure where that idea came from since we see an increase in insulin sensitivty with weight loss, and a decrease in sensitivity with weight gain.
I dind't follow up over the mic, but afterward asked him whether that was, as you've argued a temporary response, like what we might have seen in Ancel Keyes starvation study, or maybe the Leningrad typertension epidemic. He rephrased it- 'so the argument is that there's a transient increase in insuluin resistance, following overfeeding, but a lowering of resistance to below the point it was before overfeeding began.' And then he said, essentially- could be, but there's no real research he's aware that tests that specifically, and so he couldn't say.
So there you have it, straight from the horse's mouth.
(i just love your online moniker btw it's badass Letting the other wills of the world know! )
you got it right, thats the yin yang thing i mentioned on the other 180 blog. this is also why i think the eating part of rarrf is not a 30 day thing but the normal human lifestyle.
my eating window is usually around 3 hours but never more than 6 for instance i usually start around 6 and eat one big meal and maybe snack if I'm hungry a little later or if i eat somewhere i cant pig out for social reasons i hit a restaurant a few hours later because I know from experience the whole thing comes crashing down when you restrict your bodies intake on the feeding window.
also if i snack during the day i stick to specific food .. not much meat or bulky carbs. piece of jerky or pemican maybe berries, nuts, raw veggies. Simply things that would normally be eaten on the hiking part of a hunt due to the difficulty of preparing a meal on the go.
out hunting is actually where i stumbled on to this part of the equation I just started copying the old ways (we got lazy with 4 wheelers and coolers and propane stoves, beer and eating all day hunting lol. )
Will , continued
I wouldn't recommend spiking blood sugar late at night though usually results in hunger in the early part of the day for most people..
the majority of people stuck in the calorie reduction mentality try to use it to reduce calories and fail. its more of a stabilize your body chemistry and mind as well as help with digestion and promote the mobilization of fat stores kind of thing. A lot of people think it's weird, i have had a most of success convincing those around me due to cultural similarity because people wont deny heritage.
Once the stop questioning the elf magic nanobot possibilities and realize it just works ..its usually smooth sailing. the smarter they are the harder it is to help them lol .. its scientifically impossible bla bla blah kind of thing
Thanks Rob. Thought it was you. Atta boy.
Transient indeed. I think anyone who tests glucose clearance will note, while really overeating, that blood sugar numbers go up when you begin and you gain fat, particularly abdominal fat. But then it stops, numbers fall off a cliff, and you start gaining more muscle and less fat while possibly even losing fat.
Likewise, anorexics have extreme insulin sensitivity, but this is probably due to supercomp from glycogen and intramuscular fat depletion. As soon as they have exposure to adequate calories they store tons of intramuscular fat, become very insulin resistant, and notice out-of-control hunger and rapid fat gain which is a scary feeling and yet another reason why eating disorders are so self-perpetuating.
Thanks for that. There's no question that bouts of underfeeding must be met with bouts of overfeeding. That underfeeding window can potentially cause a big temporary increase in insulin sensitivity so that more of the food you eat makes it into muscle cells.
But most dieters undereat until they can't take it anymore and then overeat for weeks or months until it all comes back plus some. The fitness industry has spawned many "smart" dieters though, who take advantage of the underfeeding portion by using many tricks that allow periodic calorie surplus for muscle gains and metabolism maintenance.
From the cheat day idea to the supercomp/cyclic keto to IF that appears to be the theme. Overfeed from time to time while in a depleted state. No one overeats for more than 2 days consecutively. Interesting.
Great to hear. Let's hope you're well on your way.
I think Chief has it right in that the increase in insulin sensitivity causes muscle growth, not the other way around. Thinking of it in terms of muscle mass gains is too mechanistic. In reality, this is what happens….
Overfeeding increases leptin and decreases cortisol. Leptin increases testosterone, growth hormone, and thyroid hormone output. The drop in cortisol may improve leptin sensitivity for an added bonus.
The drop in cortisol, which opposes testosterone, growth hormone, and thyroid hormones – also works to increase testosterone, GH, and thyroid by its absence.
The result is that fuel partitioning changes to favor muscle storage over fat storage with the food ingested, particularly if the diet contains lots of starch which seems to raise leptin more than sugars or fats.
Haven't caught hold of all your posts, and so let me re-iterate what I'm hearing as your suggestion:
An intermittent sort of fast with an eating window of 3-6 hours, during which you eat a bunch, even past appetite, just to pack it in during teh feeding window. Then an exptended 18-21 hour fasting window wherein you fdon't eat. The major difference between this and IF you might otehrwise do (such as Leangains) is that you don't even consider restricting calories during the feeding window, and work hard against it, trusting that the abbreviated feeding window itself is sufficient to instigate the metabolic changes that help you gain lean tissue, lost fat, optimize your hormone levels etc. And coupled, I presume, witha real foods approach. Is that about accurate? Anything I'm missing?
Interesting stuff. Please keep us updated. I've always been interested in intermittent fasting and thought that it might hold a lot of benefits, so I'm very curious to see how you will fare now after your first unsuccessful attempt.
What I've basically been doing the last days is to decrease the amount of food I eat during breakfast and lunch and make my dinner even bigger than it already is. The plan is to at some point transition to intermittent fasting at least for some time to see how it works.
@Rob A and Matt,
I was there for Stephan's comment and I felt like it was all in good fun. All I can say is that I'm pretty jealous of the Kitavan's (and Stephan's) fasting blood glucose.
Damn you, industrialized diet. You suck.
Although I never measured my glucose response to a high starch/fat meal in the beginning of the RARRF, the change in glucose metabolism really was spectacularly obvious from the change in how I felt after eating a large meal. When I was still low-carbing and in the beginning of the RARRF, a 1000 kcal meal with 100-150 carbs would simply knock me out for hours, I'd be too tired to do anything but lay on the couch and the thought of any kind of activity was just torture. Then after 5-6 weeks on the HED large meals simply didn't phase me anymore, I could eat a gigantic breakfast and comfortably take a brisk 2 mile walk to work half an hour later.
And I think I'm right to say that this is probably the most reliably reproducable effect of carb overfeeding after a long stint of low-carb or low-cal dieting – vastly reduced tendency to carbohydrate coma, post-lunch dip, or whatever you call it. What could this signify if not increased insulin sensitivity?
For me though, the clearest piece of evidence that I was doing my body good by RARRF-ing is still the huge drop in blood pressure that I saw between the third and fifth month of overfeeding – from something like 170/110 to 135/70. I did always expect my blood pressure to soar while overfeeding, and then slowly come down as my appetite waned and I started to eat less calories – but I never imagined it to come down so dramatically while still overfeeding.
madMUHHH, intermittent fasting doesn't necessarily have to entail eating a lot late in the evening. I started out doing that when I came of the RARRF, eating nothing during the day and everything between 6-11pm, but after a few months I started to feel as if this was disturbing my sleep and gradually shifted my eating window to earlier in the day. Now I'm having lunch at like 12 and an early dinner at 5-6pm. Sleep improved alot and I feel having my feeding window earlier in the day just works better in general.
I think whatever positive effects IF has on appetite control probably stems not from timing, but from reduced meal frequency overall, by teaching your body to efficiently regulate blood sugar by itself and not constantly secrete gastric juices. Nowadays I can just as well have a breakfast at 8am and dinner at 7pm as doing a more concentrated feeding window.
i also trust in the fasting part as well to do it's job. i trust that my body is in charge im here for the ride … a fun one at that :)
i can't comment on leangains guy because frankly i spent over an hour on his blog reading almost everything and only had one item as a take away (he eats with an 8 hour window)
I don't eat past appetite ever I feel what most people consider appetite to be quite reserved. I tried the other day after thinking bout some 180 comments the other day to see if overeating is quasi-possible and it is but you feel all way too full about to puke style. I never feel that way normally. the body fights back with feelings of fulness increases in burning of calories or emergency eject! lol
one thing I noticed is from fasting part of the day total calorie count(appetite) increases for the day. compared to standard eating. i would most likely feel like i was "forcefeeding" myself eating three squares a day trying to match what I do.
i sometimes eat all day .. no matter what i never restrict calories … that is a LAW in my life. if i fast a whole day or more i just eat more the next time not consciously, it just happens.
Rob A, cont.
whole foods yes, 70 – 80 % vegetarian 50% traditional iroquois: corn beans squash deer etc I restrict some evil ones. (very important) I don't drink( extreme rarity) because of cultural belief.
Never fast without sleeping properly unless its a juice fast which i find keeps me up for days. don't like em because of that. but sleep deprivation causes all sorts of woes and free radicals to boot. fasting is a bad idea in this scenario.
I tend to eat buffet style whether or not I am home. whoever my lady is at any given time rocks the kitchen pretty hard! lol but I treat em well they say the massages alone are worth twice the kitchen time.
buffet eating adds variety, variety helps with nutrition and overall amount of intake. I'll turn any restaurant into a buffet , for instance I spent almost 200 bucks at the marriot in ottawa a few weeks back on several table d'hote multi course meals much to the amazement of the waiter. and still ate a "snack" an hour later i think it was shishtoauk and some of those lebanese potatoes.
I also do a cheat day anything goes except pork, I sometimes fast multi days,
I usually break fast with fruit about 20 -30 mins before the feed period. but thats only about 1/3 of the time.
Interesting post. When thinking about lean people, I just always assume their insulin sensitivity is excellent, no matter what their diet. I would have never guessed just by looking at him, Chris' numbers would have been so high. The last time I checked mine over 2 months ago (~2 months into RRARF) my fasting was 74 and 1 hour PP was in the mid 90's. Those numbers were at a bf level of ~15%.
Anorexics have excellent sensitivity so what causes the higher BG levels among people like Chris? I wouldn't think Overexercising would cause it.
Chanelle: 15 pounds of baby weight is really a minor thing. Do RRARF for your health, for your new kid and your sanity. I look back at pictures of me postpardum when I thought I was soooo fat. I just can not see the weight now. I looked great. What was I so worried about? Why did I torture myself with hours and hours of cardio, months of weight watchers, Burn the Fat Feed the muscle (eating 5 mini meals a day, counting ever calorie and every nutrient ratio)? My body would have shed that weight eventually, I believe without the "help" (which is really a hindrance) of dieting. Do this for a while and you will realize how neurotic and destructive your past obsessions with the scale were. Eat the Food! (Gosh especially if you are breast feeding.)
@Chief, the name comes from the fact that I used to be "Will" but another guy started posting with the same name. He said that he was going to change his, but he had trouble doing it, so I just changed mine. BTW, it allows your creativity to show when you address something to me. :-)
Your methods are very similar to the Warrior Diet, down to what he "undereats" with during the day.
@Matt, yeah, I thought that it fit in nicely with the theme of your post.
@madMUHHH, actually after TWO previous failed attempts, LOL! (first the Warrior Diet and then plain old IF). I used to hang out at the Intermittent Fasting forum and the cool thing about it was that a bunch of the current researchers on IF, hung out there and they would talk about their experiments, others' experiments, etc.
What you are doing now as a transition to IF is exactly what Ori Hofmekler suggests in his Warrior Diet book.
In regards to what Collden was saying about the timing of the meals, he is correct. Keep in mind that Walter Breuning, the worlds oldest living man, eats a big breakfast and a big lunch and no dinner. Sounds like IF to me…and apparently it worked out pretty good for him! I don't think that there is any magic in when you eat, as long as there is an undereating phase and an overeating phase. I hope it doesn't sound like I think that I actually know what I am talking about or that I am recommending it. I'm just wingin' it right now.
One last post and I'll stop flooding this place…
@Chief, what you said about not doing IF when you don't get enough sleep is 100% true. When I failed at IF the last time, I was going to grad school, sleeping less than an hour a night more often than not, and trying to maintain a high volume workout routine at the same time. Let's just say that it didn't end well.
So you say that overeating literally isn't possible? If anyone tried it, anyone would get very uncomfortable full, to the point of puking?
The reason I ask is because I sometimes don't know if I should really "trust" my body in regards to being full or not.. I know it sounds silly as we all here at 180 are all about listening and trusting our bodies. It's just that I can eat most men out of their house, so do speak, lol. I mean, this girl can EAT! I've always been like that, ever since I was a girl. Even had some eating contests with former boyfriends in my teens. Well this was of course before dieting got the best of me and I consciously ate less and less to get lean for comps and stay lean off season too.
I guess in the mix of trying to get my body healthy again, doing RRARF I kinda forgot what was natural and normal for my body so now am not sure it's normal for me to go after 2nds and 3rds, leaving my peers speechless at the table, lol.
My appetite doesn't seem to have decreased after starting RRARF.
What are your thoughts?
I thought that quote might end up getting back to you, haha. I didn't intend to be antagonistic, but we do differ on this.
Underfeeding does not lead to insulin resistance, quite the contrary. Just look at any low-calorie fat loss trial where they measured insulin sensitivity. Same with animal models of underfeeding.
Increased fat mass does lead to increased insulin resistance virtually without fail. There have been several human overfeeding studies that demonstrated this, for example the study "experimental obesity in man: a progress report" by Sims et al. There is quite a lot of research going on in my field right now trying to understand the mechanism by which increased fat mass leads to decreased insulin sensitivity. The working hypothesis is that adipose tissue becomes inflamed, accumulates macrophages, and secretes inflammatory factors such as TNF-alpha that reduce insulin sensitivity. You can block the insulin resistance that comes along with fat gain by administering anti-inflammatory treatments such as fish oil. I take your point that the kind of overfeeding you recommend is not to the same degree as what these studies did.
I'd like to see the study you referred to in The Potbelly Syndrome. Is that study published somewhere? I'm highly skeptical of that finding because it runs counter to everything I've read about metabolism.
One thing that overfeeding does do is increase leptin signaling. Not leptin sensitivity, but it increases leptin levels substantially which increases signaling, which is likely responsible for the improvements some people see with overfeeding. Leptin is responsive to both fat mass and feeding state, and overfeeding increases leptin quite a bit even if fat mass hasn't increased significantly yet.
Just read Michael Blomgren's comment. Yes, replacing fat with carb (especially whole food carb) can increase insulin sensitivity, as he remarked, but that's not the same as overfeeding. The distinction is calorie intake. As soon as fat mass increases due to deliberate overfeeding (which will occur to some degree in most people), insulin sensitivity will decrease.
I also read a comment to the effect of "I was LC and my blood glucose was high, then I added back carb and overfed and it went down". Yes, low-carb can lead to elevated fasting glucose and even diabetes in some people. Adding whole food carb can sometimes bring that down, depending on what kind of shape the pancreas is in. But again, that's probably an effect of adding back carb, not overfeeding.
Kind of like Chief said–I think this is normal eating, and the others are undereating. (except for the junk food fast food overeaters).
I've been reading this old school nutrition/cookbook, 1940's. It's called How to Be Well by Leah Widtsoe. Some of it is on google books.
She has some sample, seasonal menues. I am floored at how much food, and how much variety! Life has become so fast paced that no one has time to cook like this anymore, so none of us are really getting the nutrition and calories that we need. Here is a sample autumn day menu:
Fresh pears, whole wheat cereal, top milk, Figco
Cream of tomato and corn,
Molasses muffins, Butter,
Cucumber and lettuce salad,
Savita broth, Croutons,
Halibut and potato scallop,
whole wheat crackers,
American trifle (using whole wheat cake)
In think this is the study referred to in The Potbelly syndrome:
"insulin sensitivity, when expressed per kg of the total body (11.1+/-1.6 vs 12.4+/-2.1 mg/kg/min; p = NS), and lean body mass (13.4+/-1.9 vs 15.7+/-2.6 mg/kgLBM/min; p = NS), did not decrease after weight gain. On the contrary, insulin action had improved in 5 out of 6 individuals. In conclusion, the data presented in this preliminary report indicate that a small weight gain due to overfeeding in lean, healthy, physically active individuals is associated with rise in circulating leptin levels but not with worsening of insulin action."
There is also some evidence that long term underfeeding can lead to impaired glucose tolerance.
"Insulin sensitivity, determined according to the HOMA-IR and the Matsuda and DeFronzo insulin sensitivity indexes, was significantly higher in the CR and EX groups than in the WD group (P = 0.001). Nonetheless, despite high serum adiponectin and low inflammation, approximately 40% of CR individuals exhibited an exaggerated hyperglycemic response to a glucose load. This impaired glucose tolerance is associated with lower circulating levels of IGF-1, total testosterone, and triiodothyronine, which are typical adaptations to life-extending CR in rodents."
"i sometimes eat all day .. no matter what i never restrict calories … that is a LAW in my life. if i fast a whole day or more i just eat more the next time not consciously, it just happens."
I used to work with a woman like that, she was slim (not skinny, slim with a hint of belly which is so hot) had perfect skin, hair and was always cheerful and was sexy as hell ;)
Sheila, this song is for you:
Hey thanks for commenting Stephan. I'd like to get this all sorted out. I do feel like the preponderance of unrefined carbohydrates is a big player in lowering glucose numbers. Also the high ratio of saturated to unsaturated fats I believe to be a player as well. And finally, the high ratio of starch to fructose could be key as well.
But the bottom line is that the diet, whether belly fat is lost or 30 pounds of belly fat is gained, results in enhanced and in some cases almost freakish glucose clearance. For example I got to the point where I could eat 250 grams carbohydrates without accompanying protein or fat for maximum absorption rate with glucose levels peaking at an even 100 mg/dl.
I have no doubts that leptin is the primary driver, as well as reductions in cortisol as I mentioned.
I do not have a url for the study Farris cites, nor do I have the book with me. But he also points out that in the study leptin increased by 68% in the subjects.
I also feel strongly that underfeeding probably depletes intramuscular fat, yielding enhanced insulin sensitivity, but that this effect only lasts for about 24-48 hours under rebound hyperphagic conditions, which as you know as well as I do, is a predetermined response to calorie restriction.
Put Breakfast, lunch and dinner together in one and let me ask; That's breakfast done, now what's for lunch and dinner?
LOL! Sheila just wanner have lunch! Gotta love Weird Al!
Hi Matt and Collden,
Just looked at the abstract of the study that Collden posted on overfeeding (The one from the book you referenced). It's an interesting result and surprising to me. I'd be interested to see the full text and in particular, how they determined insulin sensitivity. I'd also like to see how much of the weight gain was fat, and how much was muscle.
It's possible that there are two factors operating simultaneously: increased leptin signaling improves insulin sensitivity, and increased fat mass opposes it. Leptin and insulin are synergistic in some ways in the hypothalamus. So it's possible that the surge in leptin from overfeeding could cause increased insulin sensitivity in some cases, at least in the absence of substantial fat gain. In the other overfeeding study I referenced, they gained more fat than in the one Collden linked to. Maybe that's the essential difference.
As far as the study Collden linked to on CR practitioners, the investigators found that although they had lower glucose tolerance, their insulin sensitivity was actually higher. That's consistent with what I've read elsewhere. CR increases insulin sensitivity but if your muscle mass is low and you aren't used to metabolizing large amounts of glucose all at once because you eat like a bird, you're going to appear glucose intolerant when you drink a big glucose drink.
Weight = 162
Fasting Glucose = 84
1 Hour Post Prandial Glucose = 115
~2 months later under the care of Dr. Stone
Weight = 172
Fasting Glucose = 74
1 Hour Post Prandial Glucose = 92
I had outgrown most of my pants so unless my hips widened I gained fat mass.
I'm a male.
haha Sheila! hey, I can eat, too. But seriously, the thought of making all those dinner side vegetable dishes AND the main courses just makes me feel tired and overwhelmed.
I can out-eat anybody too. In grad school, the boys would try to out-eat each other at "all you can eat" restaurants, and I'd quietly beat them every time. That was in my super-skinny days too!
But making dinner for an "over-eating" (by today's standards) family of 5 wears on me, geez louise. Never mind breakfast and lunch. Sigh… my fridge just isn't big enough. So we eat some version of meat and potatoes (or rice to mix it up) every meal, more meat in the mornings, more starch at night. And that's about it. Vegetables… fruits… have mostly gone out the window. Of course, after two years of eating raw, we're pretty sick of fruit and veg!
Chief – do the girls eat like you do – fast most of the day and eat big at night? Because it seems fine for the "hunters", but us "squaws" are more prone to puking if we don't eat. At least I am. I don't mind having one meal be bigger, but I cannot go without a decent amount of food 3x a day, usually 4.
Matt and Stephan – could the difference be what you're overfeeding on? IE real, whole food, versus PUFA laden garbage?
Really love this post cause it describes it all again in a short concise way.
?Ah, you’ve been reading Matt Stone,?
Wow! Congrats Matt! You're becoming a NAME!!!! Love it! Good work!
?Overfeeding does NOT decrease insulin resistance. I don’t know where he got that idea from.
How about from all of us who have been doing it and have been improving our glucose level readings!!!! Not to mention all the Dr's who have studied it, like Schwarzbein….
I agree that eating beyond appetite is better word for sure. My partner has been looking very scared whenever I've talked about overfeeding. It sounds scary to people. And even more so when they see the results of this?..ie my 30 pound weight gain. But I know it will change around after week 33. I just keep on eating to fullness.
"In other words, underfeeding made them gain belly fat eating to appetite. Overfeeding made them lose belly fat eating to appetite."
This is totally amazing!!!! I know all of this of course, but reading it again, it just strikes me as so so amazing.
Lisa Sargese: congrats! That's totally amazing that your blood glucose has dropped from 500 to 200!!!! I'm certain you'll overcome your diabetes over time.
On IF, I don't know that I could do that yet cause I don't want to go hungry at all. If I fast for several hours for sure I'd get hungry. Perhaps the IF style is more for people who already have healed their metabolism?
WOW! As an experiment, I skipped breakfast this morning. Took my temp around noon and it had plummeted!
So yes, deprivation kills the metabolism for sure.
Great post matt!
you might not wanna call yourself that word its short for girl parts "Otiskwa" lol we tend to shorten the end of words often, i was told thats the origin of that one. makes sense to me.
at one time I was on the verge of puking many a time from lack of food back in my less bad lifestyle days and know quite a few guys in the same boat so i don't think this is really a gender issue.
I also walked around with a bottle of rollaid or tums I don't remember which one but I wouldn't say it is a sign men can not eat a certain way.
I have been asked are girls different quite often in that respect what i usually say is the best results come from at least occasionally being able to fast completely without any hunger signals if not then go the minimal snack during the day route.
and eat one large meal.
I would say half of the women do this most likely because of social demands or mental blocks. I cant say as I am not a lady, if it is harder but i doubt it.
definitely pre pubescent children should not be fasting though.
Lisa E ,
Hunger depends what you eat when you eat and what you do while you fast as well as how good you sleep and how good you have your circadian rhythm running …. I rarely get hungry while fasting and when I do get hungry I simply eat … a fast should not require suffering.
Thanks Chief. So "IF" is something to work toward as the metabolism heals, and is natural even for us "gatherers" (that was my original word, I guess it's the better one!). That's what Matt seemed to tell Lisa on his other blog too (I agree w/Sheila, damn the two blog system!).
Boy, it would sure make life easier to only really eat once a day! I do have children to feed though, and I'm not ready to go w/out eating either. Although I have water fasted for a week, and juice fasted for a couple weeks. I was really, really sick at the time, and had to do something to clear out all the toxins really fast. Still, it was in no way enjoyable, even though I was quite surprised that I was able to skip more than one meal!
Sincerely, "girl parts".
As someone who messed around with IF in my Paleo days I would say a few things:
1. Don't even consider it until adrenals are at full force.
2. It is most likely to work best on those who are "adrenal types" (thicker builds, more robust by nature) those with more delicate dispositions best leave IF alone.
3. Most people achieve a muscular and lean body without doing IF but just eating well 3+ times a day.
4. It can be a fast track to, or back to an eating disorder. Great writeup here http://wp.me/pVzfd-nn
Anyway lets just say I have a few bones to pick with IF partly for the damage I have seen it do to me, psychologically and physically. Also the amount of people I know in great health, with great bodies who have never heard of or thought of IF….
I am sure it can be effective when done right and if it really suits you. But approach with extreme caution, especially when done on a daily basis….. (I think Brad Pilon's approach of 1x per week is good)
They used to call me the eating machine. LOL! So when did you stop eating like that?
Ahemm Mr.. I feel a little left out. Where is my reply? ;-)
Sheila, I still regularly out-eat my hubby and even occasionally the teenage boy. Somewhere along the way, though, my body got fed up with me eating crap and living poorly and started storing it all. After baby #2 I did the slim-fast diet and lost weight, felt great, immediately got pregnant and got fat and sick. Then I became very slim on a raw (but not vegan!) diet, and still ate and ate. I think I messed up by going low-carb (to kill candida), followed by RRARF without the rest part, and now I'm paying for it. I can normally ignore the extra weight, even though it's been six months… but last weekend I tried to fit into ANYTHING other than my hubby's shorts, and I couldn't… that was pretty traumatic. And I refuse to buy fat clothes!
But, you were talking about boob pain and periods, etc… that is getting better every month. I used to push my kids away when they'd come to hug me, it hurt so bad. My periods are also currently at three weeks, and readjusting every month. I hate being a girl. The other really big improvement is my sex drive is back. I didn't realize just how much it was lacking until it suddenly reappeared 2 months ago.
I'm sorry about your hubby. Has it been a long time?
I agree with all your points based on my experience. Although IF can help ease the hunger and food obsession and help with weight loss, it's not going to do your adrenals any good if they are at all compromised, and if you have a history of eating disorders then you are playing with fire when you IF. It's a bummer, because it is so tempting for the benefits it does provide.
I get tempted and have to fight with myself not to fast because it always always sets me back with my adrenal health (which I just spent many months healing).
Thanks for all your help Matt!!
sheila, had to sleep :) my thoughts are : girl or guy your body lets you know what it wants. don't be shy to eat for whatever reason you have higher nutritional demands.
I've tried to overeat and I get really uncomfortable and the food tastes less good as you keep pushing it. the feeling of "fullness" is largely hormonal signaling and can vary from day to day. the same way hunger is triggered fullness is triggered. fulness s just hunger's opposite. technically speaking there is no overeating because your body "let" you eat that much and it does not see it as over it sees it as needed or it would just stop you like it normally does with skinny people or when you were skinny if that is the case. when people start rarrfing after diet land the body lets it go there because finally they are eating what it wants them to. its not over eating they were under-eating all along.
hunger/appetite are reflecting the internal state and what the body perceives it needs For example if your Mitochondria ( think of em as cellular power plants ) need food to create ATP then you will be more hungry.
if your body needs to repair muscle from a workout you will be hungrier , if it thinks you are gonna starve soon it will need the food to create fat and will make you hungrier and so on and so forth.
when you are not in fat gain mode it will either balance itself by signaling fulness or use up the slight excess by raising metabolic rate. Excess calories only becomes fat if the body feels it needs fat. It is not a dose dependent situation. x amount of calories do not equal x amount of fat. so eat … EAT !!! if you are questioning your 2nds and 3rds how can you say you have been rarrfing like a good girl ??? hmmm?
I have done the whole low carb, low calorie for a long time. Introducing my body to RRARF has been a hell of a shock to my system, I reckon.
I know what you mean about refusing to buy fat clothes, I just wear my gym gear all the time now, even though I don't do any training at the moment (oh the ironi, lol)
My periods have improved. Since I started RRARF they have only been 45 days apart which is a huge improvement from coming only every 3-6 month.
My hubby? Been a long time? Huh? LOL! What do you mean?
Sleep? Unless you haven't slept for 14 days, I will not tolerate such an excuse! ;-P
Thank you for painting the picture! I needed that!
I follow what your saying and it makes sense. But when you are surrounded by under-eaters all the time, you eventually start to question yourself when you see people twice the size of you, eating what I would call a snack, for lunch. We always compare ourselves to other people, to find out what’s "normal" and what's not, when in reality that is not how the world go round.
When I think back, I've always been a big eater and I have always been slim, weighing about 62-63kg spread out on 1,66cm, even though people always guessed my weight to be 50kg (I've always had bigger musclemass than my girlfriends)
It wasn't until I started fitness/bodybuilding that I actually started to eat less and less (how ironic,huh?) when in fact I should be eating even more, since I packed on even more musclemass. That eventually messed up my metabolism and here I am.
I guess I just have to surrender to my body's needs, no matter how it may look when I eat peoples dinner for snacks, LOL!
-And just so you know, I have been RRARFing like a good girl ;-) The first month I ate like a bear before winter but have after that "tried" controlling it a bit more but it always ends up with Sheila in the kitchen once again.
I will now obey with good conscience.
I have to disagree with you strongly as your advice on fasting because it can potentially set people on a bad path or make them think if they are not "beefy like chiefy" they cant do it. Brad pilon's approach is simply calorie restriction in disguise and with out making up for missed calories after fasting is where the negative impacts on health come into play.
perhaps due to other factors in your paleo days such as obsessive food approaches (paleo itself) or an unnamed factor was responsible for your lack of success.
I personally feel nutrition is likely not up to par which results in slow adrenal repair for those having trouble.
In my opinion it is something that helps heal.
I recommend it after about 30 days of throwing out all other dumb stuff. Maybe it does not make any sense much like carbs helping insulin resistance but if fasting is done properly then it does not negatively impact health, it helps heal the metabolism. Far to many cultural practices can not be wrong. In my opinion 3 squares concept is part of the disease of civilization problem. only in an industrial like existence would wasting time creating more than one meal be efficient and if our bodies have not evolved much in ten thousand years then we were not meant for this "over eating " (increased meal frequency) :) << see shelia there is such a thing as over-eating>>> lol
@Organism,I can tell you that blood sugar control is very dependent on liver insulin control.I lifted weights every morning at 5am 3 times per week eventually getting up to 400 pound free weight squats,300 pound bench and a whopping 275 over head smith machine press.I was weighing 190 pretty lean at 5ft9 so you can say I built a ton of muscle….and yet my hypoglycemia was off the hook.This is why I quit…why do it if the extra muscle was not helping to control blood sugar levels and even more so it hurts like a mother%$@#$% to throw 400 pounds on your back and squat down to floor at 5AM!!! LOL
Matt is on to something here with the starch.I eat bread all day long and my blood sugar is stable for the most part….but I weigh a fatty 190.I can tell you that coming from a person that gets severe hypo where I cant breath and nod out in front of people who think I am on heroin that sugar is bad bad BAD!!
Thanks Matt! Great article!
Lorelei, if you want to try IF without the hunger part, you could just eat a few salads or some veggies throughout the day to hold you over before your big meal. I would probably skip the dressings that are high in fat…maybe just stick with apple cider vinegar or red wine vinegar during the day. I'm thinking that it's a matter of undereating/overeating, so that would probably give you the best of both worlds. I'm a newbie at this, so maybe Chief could give you some better advice on the "fasting" part.
Myself, I have a cup of coffee for breakfast, a cup for lunch, then break the fast with a piece of fruit, then sometimes something small (just a couple bites of something), then a BIG dinner. If I don't have at least 2 stacked plates of food, I feel like I have failed, LOL! Then I eat something a little later based on hunger. Not too hungry, a few pieces of cheese with OJ…really hungry, a big bowl of rice w/ butter, Parmesan, cheddar, and mozzarella.
The Real Newbie
Chris, I agree with you on the IF-eating disorder thing. Having recovered from an eating disorder I would never even consider trying IF. That's exactly the sort of thing that could cause a relapse and is extremely risky in my mind. RRARF on the other hand is extremely helpful. I eat 3 meals a day, and snacks if I want them, and feel like I'm really nourishing my body. I don't try to eat past appetite, but just focus on satisfying my body with what it's craving. For me, this has been the final step in a 4-yr recovery. And I have great body composition. I'm a size 0 or 2 in most clothing, with a flat stomach (on no exercise).
I also ate a TON growing up (and was skinny) and scaled back because it felt abnormal. I had a much bigger appetite than my siblings. I try not to worry about it these days, just listen to my body (and I actually don't have such a huge appetite anymore, just a big appetite for fatty food like cheese and things like bread and potatoes). I've let go of the guilt over eating what my body wants.
good idea on the salads watch out for all the sugar and fat in em. tapering it off slowly is a good idea eventually the body adjusts and hunger is no longer appearing where it should not be,insane cravings, mood swingy shit, pukey feelings and the lack of energy and afternoon slump and whatnot disappear.
I read warrior diet last year because someone wanted to know if it was the same ideas i have been using and i found his ideas surprisingly similar to mine in terms of fasting but different in alot of respects as well ( I fast multi days some times, i don't have an food eating order, I don't eat anything like miso I don't have a dont workout to failure concept i could balbe for a while but whatever lol) however alot like stumbling on to matt's blog I feel a little less alone lol
you might wanna dodge the coffee during the fasting state though as it stimulates. I imagine it affects the endocrine system in a more pronounced way while fasted, I for one do not drink any coffee ever and if i have green tea its with supper usually.
EVERYBODY, if you are Interested in fasting, I am at a point where i can fast for 3 days with proper sleep without any temperature changes or noticed ill effects. seeing as that is a big 180 thing to check temps, its some food for thought considering i once would feel "pukey" skipping breakfast.
anyone: feel free to hit me up my email is on my profile
Lorelei, I just gotta throw this out there since I saw something in your post that reminded me of where I was at last spring with this whole weight gain. I was really struggling with my clothes and everything made me feel fat, dumpy, horrible etc every single time I got dressed. Listening to the Gabriel Method, he talks about accepting your weight. Saying to yourself. No matter what I won't diet again, I don't care if I'm this weight for the rest of my life. I meditated on that thought for weeks and then I realized that my wardrobe was a big part of the problem. Over the summer I saved up some money and splashed out on new clothes, new underwear, etc. It wasn't hugely expensive, like $300. I also spent another $200 or so on nice accessories and boots that don't care whether your thin or fat. It's made a huge difference to my day to day life. I don't feel like the fatty every time I get dressed because my clothes fit. I've really started to accept myself at this weight. Now I look back at pictures of myself when I thought I was fat and I don't see it anymore. I think I looked beautiful. You know what, I think I look great now. My hair and skin are rocking. My booty is bigger but just as awesome as ever. Yes, I'd like to improve some things but I don't feel so negative about my body anymore. It took a long time to get here. I realized that I'd internalized some excessively negative thoughts about myself. I used to feel that way about myself in high school when I weighed 110 and was ripped to shreds from lifting weights and running. I will never be perfect enough for that little Grinch inside me, so basically the Grinch has to die. And you know what, as soon as I got to that place mentally, these last few weeks thing have started to turn around. Sugar, cocktails, stuff that would sabotage me before are easier to walk away from and I've started to loose weight instead of gain. Slowly but it's progress. I've built muscle too which is remarkable since I've done very little in the way of regular exercise. ( A metabolic circuit now and again. A vigorous hike with some hill sprints, etc. I haven't been to my gym in so long I've forgotten the locker combo.)
I honestly think this whole self hating thing I had going on was keeping my fat programs turned on. It seems insane to advise someone to go out and spend money on a fat wardrobe in order to fit into a thin wardrobe, but that may be what you need to do. This is 180 afterall. When in doubt do the opposite!
So what I'm saying is you may have to pay more attention to the woowoo shit than you thought. I don't want to diss IF or the Chief's warrior thang, but will it add stress? Is it just another diet, dressed up in non diet clothes? Just sayin. By your own admission you've done a lot to mess up your body with playing with extremes, but you've made great steps forward. Think about the positive. I can hear the frustration and self-loathing in your post. I've certainly been there myself. Anyway, hope this is taken with the spirit of love in which it was intended and not bossy preaching.
I think chief has said something like this several times before, but I still wanted to state this once again, because I agree with it very much.
I think the single greatest tool to use for loosing weight in a healthy fashion is to simply not give a shit about your weight and feel awesome the way you are. I know this sounds easier than it is, especially for the women out there (I guess), but if you hammer that into your head long enough it will stick with you at some point.
I agree with Jenny that IF is not for everyone. I have an internet friend that did raw paleo and IF at the same time, and he is messed up now…BIG TIME! He is freezing cold all the time, can barely eat anything anymore. I believe that he lost his job because it was too hard for him to work. He's living with relatives now. It's a shame. I think that it does matter where you are at, health-wise.
Pet peeve yo…
lose – verb – to cause the loss of
Ex: I want to lose weight.
Ex: Losing weight is my goal.
loose – adj – not rigidly fashioned or securely attached.
Ex: My pants are loose after losing weight.
@Real Will, has your friend given up on Paleo now or is he still clinging to it, unable to see all the issues it's caused? Sounds like he needs RRARF.
Jenny and Loreli:
I too, am wearing mostly The Nacho Libre "Stretchy Pants" most days. Feeling a bit like Coach Sue from Glee.. but am telling myself, it works, I look ok most of the time and I am really just not dwelling on the clothing anymore.
I was so freakin skinny for two years, due to raw vegan madness, that I got 'reprogrammed' to think that was normal. So none of my size 2-4 shorts fit, well, shit they would not have fit me as a TEENAGER for Christ's sake!
We all just have to accept the junk in the trunk, the baby fat belly and let it bet what it is.
Getting ready to add a few days of heavy weights into my yoga/walking program.
I will keep you posted
sorry 'let it BE what it is" No bet.
Could anyone point me towards some info about liver function/insulin sensitivity? I've been on RARRF for about 11 months without any change in BG. Fasting is still 90-105 Mg/dl.
I suppose most information is fatty liver related or something along those lines, which I'm fairly certain I don't have.
I've been taking a zinc supplement and have been considering bile salts for copper excess, as I was vegetarian for a long time in the past. I've taken zinc in liquid sulfate form and noticed no taste, though that was a year ago. I've also had high bilirubin/jaundice in the past, although it's improved over the last year.
@Amy, I haven't talked to him recently but I had mentioned to him in the past about eating more. I believe that he has actually posted here on 180 before. But in our last exchanges, he told me that everything he eats makes him sick. It makes it hard for him to RRARF when he can only eat miniscule amounts of food at a time. He's in a tough spot right now.
JENNY you actually were not "counter" or "180 " at all to my "warrior thang" lol what you spoke of is a big part of it. I tell people all the time stress is the first thing that has to go and " I would rather see you feed your cravings with pepsi ho hos, french fries and eliminate the stress" than focus on the fat and eat veggies. it will take care of itself on its own. If people are obsessing about the fat no amount of secret tricks will change it.
you have to let go and literally your body will let it go.
congrats Deb love the skin your in!
Madmuhh , yep I did say something like that and your right it is by fay the single most important thing anyone can do right away …"not giving a fuck" only takes a sec to decide and it is a weight off one's shoulders once it is really internalized which takes weight off the midsection as a side effect.
?Anecdotal now has this enforced meaning such that no one is supposed to believe what they experience, what they see, hear, taste, smell, etc. The Powers That Be have basically extinguished the notion of inductive reasoning. Everything has to be replicated in a laboratory and since 90% of all the labs in this nation are operated by Corporate Sponsored monies, not much truth comes out of them.
from joe the redneck's blog:
Sheila – sorry, I meant Sydney. Wrong S-named girl. She mentioned her hubby had passed away at a relatively young age from poor health.
Jenny, new clothes might be in order for xmas! But since I live in a season-less, laid back place, I can 99.9% of the time get away with wearing hubby's shorts. It was just a serious shock when I tried to fit into anything else and couldn't! But I'm mostly ok with my weight, as evidenced by the fact that I don't turn out the light at night, if you know what I mean. And I know I'm at coming to a turn-around point, since now I'm eating and eating and not gaining. Still, I probably have a subconscious grinch that I need to work on too. Who wouldn't, in this society? And you're right Mad, it doesn't matter near so much for boys… who's noticed that when a woman is being insulted, weight is always part of it, unless she's a Barbie?
So Deb, now that you're not raw, do you find that you… smell better? That's worth a different kind of junk in the trunk, right? At least, it was a serious problem in our family!
As for eating pre-civilization style, I can see that it could be healing. I'm not ready, though, my adrenals are my number one priority right now and I have no desire to mess with them further – mostly because it would cause me stress to cook for the family and not eat. I've done that. It's no fun. So yeah, Chief, I think you're right, it would have to wait. I'm just looking for the quick fix, which is always bad. Kinda like when all us Matt groupies went on an uber low-fat spree… that didn't last long, fortunately, because I was smart enough to know my body didn't like it at all.
Chief and Chris-
Good back and forth on IF. I think Chris's summary is outstanding. It's not necessarily a good place for someone who already has a burden from prior stresses to go to. However, Chief's point about other factors is important also. Many IF programs are paired with:
a) too much exercise
b) too few carbs
c) too few calories
d) other stupid things
But I do think fasting has a potential therapeutic benefit for those who are rarin' and ready to go. Plus, it's absurdly convenient. Also very empowering to be able to go long stretches without food without it hurting your emotions, physical performance, etc.
I will say that after a year of really takin' it easy and eating tons of food with no restriction that I, without question, have much greater strength and resilience to low-calorie days, fasting, strenuous exercise, irregular sleep patterns, etc.
So what may have been true in the past may no longer be true after some deep time off.
Thanks. The most common grammatical error made in the healthsphere due to the number of people talking about how to "loose" weight. Huge pet peave of mine, as an English major, but I try to keep my grammar Nazi ways to myself. An english major that's a grammar nazi is just too cliche for me.
If you are referring to "gaseous oders" hell YES I am nearly flatulence free these days. As for body oder, I did not need deoderant at all while raw unless I ate too much spicy/onion/garlic stuff. Now I still don't smell horrible,but occasionally use some natural deoderant just in case.
Yeah, don't get in an elevator at a raw food conference and get stuck is all I'm saying.. :)
To highlight the geekiness that runs in my family, my mom was ranting once about how people mix up "affect" and "effect" all the time.
My mom: "Affect is a verb and effect is a noun."
My brother: "Actually either one can be either."
So, to carry on with that theme…
loose – verb – to let loose
Ex: You best learn the difference between "loose" and "lose" or I'll loose the Chief on your ass. (Sorry Chief).
By the way "loose" rhymes with "goose" and "lose" rhymes with "choose". Don't you love English?
matt, re: misspelling loose/lose being a huge pet "peave" of yours.
what the hell is a "peave"? some kind of furry creature? where can i get one?
I think a peave is directly related to a tribble.
See early Star Trek for an example of the trouble with tribbles.
as i recall, tribbles multiplied rapidly yet remained quite small. perhaps a "huge pet peave" is a big dumb country cousin of the tribble? (oooh, i am going to get in trouble for that one)….
Deb – worse than an elevator- imagine car trips with your three also raw kids. In winter.
About IF. How is it possible to not "diet" when you can go for 3 days without food? Are you saying you eat around 21.000 calories on the last day, to make up for the under eating?
You say it's impossible to "overeat" yet you can scarf down 3 days worth of food in half a day? How does that add up?
I too was intrigued by The Warriors Diet, back in 2005 but of course went about it all the wrong ways.
Who says you have to scarf down all that food within just one day?
Well.. No body. I just assume that if you don't do it soon enough, more days will be added and you will continue to be behind "schedule". If this is not the case, it's just the same as Scott Abel's approach with the weekly under eating, followed by a re-feed.
Sheila, i don't really count calories but it is a noticeable increase say one or 2 plates extra for a few days following and then appetite returns to normal and if i attempted to eat as much as the refeed days i would most likely vomit hence overeating being impossible. :)
I assume if there is a temp drop during the fast and you stick with it, that would be venturing into the world of downgraded metabolism much like dieting. I assume that the body would adapt and no longer function "behind schedule" and then downgrade thinking starvation has hit. when i experiment with fasting the minute my temp drops i eat you notice it without a thermometer you just don't feel right.
I have hit 9 plates at a buffet don't know how many calories that is but looking to competitive eaters I don't think 21 000 would be impossible.Their bodies let them eat it therefore it is not overeating. hormonal signals kick to eat more when you fast alot of people are using it as a calorie deficit tool and ignore hunger signals this is where they go wrong. It's more of a internal environment/brain regulating tool to get your body systems working properly.
I look at it like this if you "diet" meaning low calorie intake over the course of x amount of days, you are sending the signal to you body that you are having trouble procuring food such as hunting squirrels out of desperation. If it is a complete fast you are simply telling it, "chill out, don't downgrade metabolic rate on me, I'm hunting something worthwhile and a feast is coming in a day or so." This eating cycle has most likely been a common practice for tens of thousands of years if not more so we have not adapted to no longer have this fasting ability. When I am not experimenting I usually only fast for a day every once in a while say once sometimes twice a month.
The general message is; Listen to your body and it will tell you if your doing things right.
I tried pushing my breakfast a bit today, resulting in a temperature drop to 35,4 degrees Celsius and a ravenous appetite upon eating.
I guess my body isn't quite ready for that yet.
keep in mind that you need to slowly make a transition "pushing it forward" is not letting it naturally progress. It's forcing it the same as calorie restriction. Think about it you have trained your body to respond a certain way in terms of a circadian rhythm most likely your whole life.
My suggestion is to start by snacking immediately upon waking up regardless of food type and increase one meal (preferable supper) to become the majority of the calories and after that takes a hold, slowly change the food types during the fasting/snacking part to things that don't impact the insulin response as much then you should not have much trouble easing the fasting window forward it most likely will happen without you realizing it unless you are the type to obsess about food, then it might take more time than average. I have seen most people spontaneously drift their "breakfast" forward this way.
Make sure your big meal has lots of food because it is essentially a re-feed or a make-up meal. Make sure it has plenty of variety and a good amount of carbs n fat and avoid things that will affect your blood sugar late at night or essentially anytime after your large meal (given you feel you ate enough and were not shortchanging yourself) always trust your hunger but remember that a few things you have done might have sent mixed signals so simply adjust what you ate and it will fix itself for tomorrow.
Maybe a little bit OT… but has anyone any oppinions on takeru kobayashi? current weight loss, he now looks really emantiated compared from 2 yrs ago. Could he be the poster boy of rrarf (HED)??
BTW ravenous hunger is not a bad thing but simply a sign you need a lot of food. If you are truly listening to your body and it sends an intense signal like that feed it intensely !! don't try to avoid having it occur again that's like avoiding carbs to fix blood sugar problems sure it works but is it really the way to go?
It would be simple to avoid hunger by eating all day and even waking up to pound a protein shake in the middle of the night but that does not make sense to me. makes more sense to live as if we are still in a simpler time and just feed the need as it comes keeping in mind certain modern things make the system go haywire.
if you follow the recommendation the above post you will notice like clockwork you will be "Truly " hungry at meal time and "fake" hungry during snack times then eventually forget to snack and notice only being hungry at meal time. I can tell what time it is within ten minutes of mealtime without a clock. I often get told it seems like i could eat everything in sight when i am feasting because everyone else is so reserved it seems ravenous to me I'm just eating and enjoying good food.
Serge, my opinion is he was most likely in decent health and not overweight ever …i think he would not be a good poster boy ;)
an ex fatty maybe would be good …hmmm where can we find one of those
Matt, I feel that you would benefit from being a little bit looser with your eating guidelines. You are correct on so many levels it would be a shame to miss a few points that I'm going to mention. I feel you already believe what I am going to say, but I believe in further posts you should clarify these ideas so that people don't just think they can continue on RRARF indefinitly
1: Your guidelines to eat low fructose, low polyunsaturates, high fiber is spot on to increase metabolism. It keeps the liver from being damaged and you feed your intestines with butyrate.
2: I agree completely with Stephan (whole health source) that once you start to gain weight — the magic of RRARF goes bye bye, but your initial suggestions for people to eat more and exercise less are spot on for people who have adrenal burnout.
3: I don't believe most people need to engage in RRARF for more than a couple of weeks to gain the benefits you mention. At that time it would be prudent to decrease calorie intake. In fact, this is why systems like EAT STOP EAT seem to work so well. You don't give your body time to adapt to overeating or undereating. This optimizes your lepin signaling. While it is great to tell people to eat without set guidelines — varying undereating and overeating really seems to strengthen the human condition.
side note: undereating as I mention is not starvation — you would be eating a few less hundred calories than you would need to support your current mass.
What I am mentioned is also very similar to this:
curious about your thoughts on 2 points
1.) given that some people have reported not gaining any weight on rarrf where does your idea that weight gain is inevitable with rarrf come from?
2.) what is the reason not to rarrf long term? considering there is not a whole lot of good scientific data on the subject but some people such as undertow who has been rarrfing for close to a year, I believe and myself which I have been pretty rarrfish for years (with the exception of a few low calorie bouts to induce weight gain for my experiments in fat loss)
Undertow, I read your first comment and I have to tell you that the only thing that saved me was a digestive enzyme that had TINY amount of senna in it.
I believe that it helped rebuild the muscular tissue in my intestines, which in turn improved my digestion. I started RRARF when I was taking the supplements, but I swear to you I was pooping twice a day by the time I was a month in.
I feel like a dick to recommend supplements to people, but I get them from my local shop. Maybe try something like that and see if it helps you. I took it for three months and immediately noticed a difference, but when I started RRARF it got wayyyyy better.
I feel bad that you have been trying this for so long, but you have not seen the results. Maybe try to switch it up, but definitely don't give up!
1: I believe that people who are not gaining substantial weight on RRARF are not overeating as much as they think they are (in terms of the number of calories they think they need). Gross overeating for weeks will cause an increase in body weight and a decrease in insulin sensitivity. Matt specifically says that he does not watch calories, but suggests to eat enough to be full <—- that is much different than making sure you are in caloric surplus every day.
2: Undertow did gain some weight. He may also just be one of those individuals that when they approach their genetic setpoint, it is just really really hard for them to gain or lose weight. I have no doubt however that if he really found how many calories he needed to sustain his weight and if he made a conscious effort to really overeat — he would continue to gain weight as long as the overeating continued <– remember, there would be genetic resistance along the way.
Matt, I really liked your response here, but It would be better if you gave gave complete references, not just mentions.
Aaron… ok i see what your saying but i think if the body is working properly it is impossible to really be in caloric surplus as the body steps in and stops you from going all out overboard and makes up for the slight overages.
well you maybe right with undertow's case, I can not speak for him but i used to gain fat easy and now I do not gain unless I choose to and I do not think I am unique or genetically superior ( lots of overweight people related to me and i once was overweight by a large margin.)
also i don't know what type of high tech equipment one would need to figure out their exact personal calorie balance when packages on food are often wrong and some experts claim obesity comes down to 75 to 100 calories per day in the wrong direction. At that rate it would take around 35 weeks to know if you were gaining fat before making an adjustment even then there maybe water gain or water loss or even muscle gain.
Therefore true balance would be near impossible, overages are handled by the body ( in a way too complex to describe in a comment) and under-eating is the only easy to produce but not very desirable state.
TGraham, I actually tried some digestive enzymes this past two weeks as an experiment. I do have one or more BM's per day since starting RRARF, but after the milk diet attempt in the summer, digestion never really return to normal. Digestive enzymes make my BM's very very soft, as in fall apart soft. So not sure if that will help, I stop taking this weekend. Thanks for the tip though. I like to avoid all supps if possible as well. Ya not giving up, RRARFin is just to tasty and hoping 'time heals all' kicks in at some point!
Aaron/Chief, I did pack on 10lbs in the first 3 months RRARFin but since then I have eaten way more daily then in the first few months. Of course it is not really possible to track cal intake. All I can comment; is that I eat 3 to 4 very large mixed meals per day, more quantity that at any other time in my life. I don't eat until I am sick, just really really full, like thanksgiving dinner full. And the weight has actually decreased 5lbs in the last 10months or so, without exercise (just walking). My digestion still seems weak to me, so not sure what effect negative/positive that is having right now. But ya I thinking that set point must be part of this somehow. I will add to that muscle mass in my arms seems slightly smaller, while core muscle mass has exploded.
I knew it wasn't much (5 lbs) and definitely not enough to fit the idea that calorie increases automatically mean fat gain considering we are talking about a 13 month go hard or go home eating style.
curious what is it that tells you your digestion is weak ?
The thing is, if I nibble on food all day before the big feast at night, like you do on IF, I would not be able to keep my temperature up. A big meal keeps my temperature but it drops when I go too long without. Any moving around too much also makes it drop. Would you say it's still safe for me to approach IF, with that said?
I have been RRARFing close to 2,5 months now and I have gained 10kg (22lbs) which doesn't seem like it is stopping. This scares me quite a bit, as I can only imagine what the numbers will be next month :-/
I am kinda out of ideas now and I continue to fight the urge to diet, as I know this would be like laughing my body in the face.
Curious, how and what did you do, to gain weight on purpose? Maybe I am accentually doing what you did. LOL (I laugh but it doesn't really feel all that funny, right now)
Sheila, I gained 30 lbs (or 25% body weight) before it stopped, most w/in 2 months, the last few pounds over the next few months. It's pretty scary indeed! I was also ravenous, ravenous, ravenous. I would feel sick from eating so much, and yet want to eat more. I remember asking Matt when those satiety signals would kick in. They seem to be there now.
Thank you for that shout out! Makes me feel less alone.
So does that mean you have decreased the amount of calories you consume, now? And has that resulted in any magic weight loss, at all?
How are your temperatures?
I stopped counting calories, I just eat. I think I'm eating less though (just seconds). No weight loss, and temps are unstable – I have to kick adrenal problems first, and number one is learning to go to bed (she writes at 2:30AM)! I've noticed temp and weight is really related to sleep. BUT so many other things are better. Not all, but I see improvement, like stronger teeth, rapid bruise and sore muscle recovery, sex drive is back, breast pain gone… so for now I'm not worrying about it, and like Lisa E, just waiting for that magic turnaround time. After I learn to sleep.
Chief, I think my digestion is weak due to BM's that are soft and not really formed sometimes, BM's went downhill after the milk diet experiment I tried in the summer. My thinking would be that gut flora is not properly healed yet.
Sheila/Lorelei, I agree sleep is key, if I'm not sleeping before 10pm, I feel like complete shit the next day. Seems like my adrenals still need some time to heal as well.
My weight gain peaked at 3 months, then took about the next 6 months to slowly come off, and has been stable for last 5 months. I know I am male, but hopefully it will be similar for you girls. I will note that I have not decreased the amount of food I eat.
"This scares me quite a bit, as I can only imagine what the numbers will be next month :-/
I am kinda out of ideas now and I continue to fight the urge to diet, as I know this would be like laughing my body in the face."
for what its worth, you are doing fine. Doubt is often a regular companion, but is just another thought that comes and goes as it does, and need not be viewed as more pertinent.
Immersing onself in something other than dietary matters is of benefit.
Anyone Tweeting about what they're eating?…doing? with the #180degreehealth hashtag? I can't be the only one!
Or are folks using the #RRARF hashtag?
I'm very encouraged to read about so many of us who are feeling better. I'm also relieved to know I'm not the only RRARFer who took longer (much longer) than a month or two to start feeling significantly better (though the glucose numbers started dropping almost immediately upon reintroducing starches to my failed HP diet).
Anyway, I'm Amidala64 on Twitter. Hope to connect with some of y'all! Always good to see how other people are doing with all this :-)
Got back on the RRARF wagon about 10 days ago after temp drops, extremely dry skin and stubborn weight wouldn't budge trying carb cycling. Woke up this morning to a 1.5 lb drop in weight and skin has gradually cleared up the past week to near normal. Word up.
Johnny, sometimes, you just have to Eat the Food!
Good job on getting back into RRARF.
Thanks! I warmed it up Kris and I'm about to, warm it up Kris thaz what I wuz born to do.
I'm sure you've seen this by now;
heart scan blog for 11/24 re temperature.
I know you've heard me say axillary is not a good measure. So hey, there's actually been some testing.
Anyway, just remember that under the tongue means ALL THE WAY!! In the pocket.
On food; In a past life, pre vegan, I baked both Indian Pudding and Custard Rice Pudding.
These should both be 180 and Uncle Ray friendly.
I'm cooking up the Indian Pudding recipe from foodonthefood this morning (I like the recipes that include egg rather than just flavored mush loaves). I eat these items as breakfast foods so make them less sweet than dessert items. Also use whatever sweetener you prefer.
My Custard Rice pudding is just a basic custard w cooked rice (I use brown) added and raisins, if you like. The sweetener is supposed to be increased but, for breakfast, not necessary. Baked in a water bath.
Really good stuff.
Thanks for the information about the "overfeeding".I thought that its really happening.If we add more pulses,grain,paddy etc will also reduce insulin.I try this awesome soon….
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Do You think it's necessary to have much protein or fat at each meal to increase insulin sensitivity? Or say could I have a bog bowl of oatmeal and a sweet potatoe and an egg and thats the right path?
How does meal composition play into this I guess is what I am asking?
you've got the right idea.
There is also protein and fat in most starches as well, which adds up quickly if you are intentionally eating as much as you can. Protein needs also diminish in proportion to calorie intake. The more calories, the less protein you need, so the more it should favor starchy foods and less meat the harder you eat.
My own personal diet at the moment is mostly starches, vegetables, and milk (raw) and I have now incorporated more fruit which no longer has any negative effect on me like it used to (such as mood swings or skin breakouts).
So what does a typical day look like?
Also, do you eat meat? Butter? Sounds almost like a McDougall plan.
Would you think it's possible to incorporate fruit in fixing IR?
I am at prediabetic levels…
Also, what brought me to your website, I saw a post somewhere on a blog you talked about sugar water for diabetes rehab? Or something along those lines. Interesting…???
I'm not sure what you are pointing to with the sugar water for diabetes rehab. That was either an old post about fasting or a reference in a comment to Bernardo Houssay. Not sure.
As for my current diet, a half gallon of full-fat Jersey milk per day as well as some butter, coconut oil, and sour cream isn't exactly McDougall!!!
But I'd say my diet is roughly 55% carb, 30% fat, and 15% protein. I'm doing some hard weight training right now and I don't think there's any doubt that a high-starch diet with adequate protein and lots of calories is the most effective. But I could be wrong. I might get better growth eating more meat, but I'm just not really in the mood for it right now.
So I have been overfeeding, high carb. A lot. Anyway, my glucose is all over the place, and my sleep is shit. I have the craziest dreams. Nightmares really, and I toss and turn all night. I wake up one minute and check, and my bg is 98, the next 108, then back down.
No continuity during the day either. How long does this last?
It can last up to a couple weeks. If you are still having problems by then, contact me and we'll troubleshoot.