While RRARF (my program for increasing metabolism) is a new program not even two years old yet, I figured it was time to get something out there on the topic of pregnancy and fertility right away. The bottom line is that RRARF can be extremely helpful for not only helping couples achieve fertility, but making sure pregnancy, delivery, and the development of a very strong and healthy kid are all at their best.
We’ve now seen that RRARF can restore missed periods with great consistency, and that these missed periods are often directly attributable to reduced metabolism (and the low progesterone production that accompanies it). Metabolism up, period returns. In most of the cases dealt with thus far, it really is that simple.
?“Speaking of periods, I think mine have been regained by this diet. For about 5 years my periods were sporadic at best and the last year there was no period. Apparently if you don’t have a period for 12 months or more you are considered to be entering menopause. I’m only 38 at the moment so definitely not prepared for menopause. I tried taking hormones previously without any success. My sex hormones were very low where they were supposed to be higher. My growth hormone was virtually non existent. My endocrinologist had no answers for me other than I was getting older.
Within 30 days of starting this diet, I got a normal period without any PMS or pain! Normally I’d be crippled by the pain in my lower back and pelvis. First 3 periods were also normal. Then the next few were getting lighter and shorter and this month it was late. About a week ago I stopped my thyroid meds in preparation for a blood test. Well guess what? One week after stopping the meds my period came back totally normal! So it seems my thyroid dose had become too high. This could all be coincidence of course, but it’s looking pretty good for the RRARF way of life.”
-Princess
There have been a couple cases of successful pregnancy when there was miserable failure prior. And we’ve got a couple of proud couples (Swede and Brock and their respective women folk) now that went through a preconception period of whole foods overfeeding and have reported to me that their newborns were in the highest percentiles in all of those newborn measurements and indicators, more muscular and lean than a typical baby, happy, laid back, and infection-free in their early months, and with ravenous appetite for ankles as evidenced by their incurable ankle biting. RRARF has done great things for the milk production of pregnant moms as well…
“My breastfed baby, went from pooping once every 4-7 days…to 2-3 times a day.”
-Stephanie
This may all be pretty simple physiology going on here. The thyroid gland appears to be one of, it not the, chief controller of the conversion of cholesterol into steroid hormones. Speed it up and you have a bigger pool of these hormones to dip into.
The most important hormone to increase from a pregnancy standpoint is of course, the mother of all female youth hormones, progesterone ? as in ?pro-gestation hormone. After reading through Ray Peat’s books I understand more completely the role of this hormone, and why RRARF would raise levels substantially by not only increasing thyroid activity but also lowering cortisol production (this is key as, under great stress, food-deprivation, over-exercising, or sleep loss progesterone is converted to cortisol).
Progesterone has many key features such as making your kid’s brain bigger (a large head size to body size ratio, according to Peat, is an important indicator of overall health of the ankle biter), and since nature is sophisticated, progesterone also improves cervical elasticity, making big-headed delivery a lot more comfy ? relatively speaking. High levels of progesterone from metabolic excellence could certainly explain Weston A. Price’s report of the ease of child labor in healthy isolated tribes.
While there is a lot of information out there about making sure you get plenty of nutrients prior to conception such as butter, cod liver oil, liver, eggs, milk, and other foods that Price witnessed being given to couples as part of their ?native wisdom? preconception nutrition program, and that’s all fine and dandy, once again there is WAY too much focus on what people are eating these days and WAY too little focus on how their bodies are functioning ? which is usually pretty poor. In my experience, all the cod liver oil and low-carb Paleo food on the planet is not enough to optimize fertility and excellent pregnancy, which requires pumping up the metabolism to its maximum for optimal nutrient absorption, stress hormone decrease, and progesterone rise ? just to name a few.
Often the advice being given on the nutrition fringes for fertility is simply too low in carbohydrates. The carbohydrate is a very key fertility trigger due to its pro-metabolic and anti-stress (therefore pro-progesterone) properties, one that is more important today than ever as virtually all modern humans are adapted to having a steady supply of carbohydrate throughout each and every day.
The bottom line is pretty simple though. The big worry is not to have carbophobia for fear of gestational diabetes. The big fear is not exposure to mercury or other toxins which, if you live on planet earth, is more or less unavoidable. Where I believe the battle of good fertility and pregnancy to be won and lost is in the function of the body itself. When the body is fed all the things it could ever need in surplus, stress is low and sleep is high, and all is as peachy as can be ? the metabolism picks up to its maximum potential (and a morning temperature nearing 99 degrees F in women after what happens? Ovulation of course which is when the ratio of progesterone to estrogen rises, coinciding with a rise in sex drive and other happy things ? estrogen is powerfully anti-metabolic in both sexes, and progesterone is like Kryptonite to estrogen).
But note, this takes, especially with the pre-conditioning of a society that associates health with anorexic eating behavior, serious chowdown. Women and men alike are way too accustomed, when trying to eat healthy, to eat steamed broccoli, salads, low-fat foods, lean meats,?granola, and various little sprouts and vegetable juice concoctions. No no, I’m talking about eating a Close Encounters-sized pile of mashed potatoes (half butter by weight) with every meal and steaks the size of the Old 96?er that John Candy gobbled up in the movie The Great Outdoors. See Chief for more details, just don’t tell him you need to get pregnant or he might take that the wrong way and show up at your house tomorrow in nothing but his tribal banana hammock.
I also hope to delve into some interesting related material soon, such as the progesterone connection in women’s health issues including, but not limited to, gaining weight after pregnancy and postpartum depression (after depleting reserves of this hormone during pregnancy). Should be real, and it should be fun.
How to maximize your pregnancy by??RAISING YOUR METABOLISM.
We don't wear banana Hammocks you racist bastard ! :P .. we wear hanes brand loinclothes. You just had to go there eh? I remember reading something about a a guy in some country where it cost too much for the artificial insemination, he got paid to bump uglies …i was thinkin what a job ..lol
seriously though I recently made some garlic mashed potatoes and kept adding butter til it tasted good and after I was done I realized it had 2 sticks of butter for just me and my brother… I called them the widowmaker potatoes because after that neither one of us could even look at food but prior it seemed like we could eat all night.
Chief-
I did not suggest that you would wear of a banana hammock or that it was some part of your cultural rituals. I just figured that this would be a look you went for when trying to impress women seeking pregnancy. Lord knows that's how I roll.
There's definitely a point after adding salt and butter to mashed potatoes that it reaches a point of perfection. I bet if you did a taste-test in a laboratory you'd find a pretty narrow range in which people picked their favorite, and that it would be almost identical to mother's milk in macronutrient composition.
Might have to start the little one an ankle diet soon!
Makes me sad when I hear that Natalie Portman and Alicia Silverstone (vegans!) are now pregnant. Hope their kids turn out good and healthy.
Scott
Hey Matt,
I like the approach underneath this- nutrient and calorie superabundance, and then trust the body to make whatever it needs from the abundance of raw materials, rather than hoping you can give it just the right stuff in the right quantities that it's seeking.
One long-standing consequences several months later after RRARF, is a much decreased appetite. I used to be able to pound food back,a nd still can fromt ime to time, but on my own, I just don't tend to eat that much. I eat now as much as is enjoyable, but I reckon it's not enough- body temps are still low and, PACE findings notwithstanding, I can't seem to add much lean mass.
'Sup with that? Do I try extra hard to pound the food down? Just not sweat it and see what happens just continuing to eat to appetite of whatever I want (mostly nutritious real food)?
Thoughts?
Swede,
perhaps we will only see the results of their diet in their grandchildren like the epigenetics video a few posts ago. haaa
matt, I would just smile and raise my eyebrows and let nature take its course its all in the eyes. …well actually it's probably more in the adventures in Buffet eating you have no choice but to reek of nutrition, potency and virility.
This was a great post Matt. You can definitely add my wife and I to the list. Menstrual inconsistencies, and a miscarriage after a stint of vegetarianism followed by lowish carb paleo. After a few months RRARFish…well the little squirt has been a blast.
We can definitely attest to the potency of carbs for these matters. Little guy gained the nickname very quickly one-shot.
12 hour natural home birth with ample milk supply has been the story with my wife more or less keeping up with a RRARFish diet. Now one thing that I do believe matters significantly is that she has put no emphasis on losing the weight she gained during pregnancy. Well after 5 months she just put her stretchy "prego" pants away.
I think that this is a hugely important topic that should be focused on, because it touches on the very fundamentals of nutrition and not some narcissistic "hey look at insecure me and my sexy abs" mind set.
Matt,
Can you explain what you are recommending for RRARF now? You went high carb low fat for a while, and now it seems like you are recommending the Sally Fallon WAPF diet? I'm getting confused on what you are actually promoting now.
Wow, two Ahnold pics out of the last 3 posts…impressive, LOL! :-)
Matt, if I remember correctly, I believe that you said in your free ebook that it is possible to do RRARF as a vegetarian. Because you would still be eating plenty of dairy fats and coconut fats which are uniquely known to increase metabolism. Have you heard from anybody who has done RRARF as a vegetarian? Also, you recommend eating plenty of vegetables on RRARF because they contain a lot of nutrition with few calories. But what is your opinion of fermented vegetables (the kind advocated by weston a price foundation?) Can fermented vegetables have a place in RRARF? Also, are raw vegetables okay on RRARF? Thanks.
JT-
I think carbs should be emphasized if you're coming from low-carb and think that 1 potato is a lot of carbs, and I think carbs should be emphasized for athletics, but ultimately the best results come from eating both carbs and fats together from a health and well-being standpoint. As far as ratios go, it has to match up with what you need counterbalanced and lifestyle I would say.
Nathan-
Sweet!
Rob-
I hear ya. I can't stuff myself very well at all at this point, but 1-2 days of eating well is enough to bring up any dip in temperature that I've had. Maybe intermittent feasting, lol?
Anonymous-
A vegetarian diet with eggs and milk is just as good if not better than a typical mixed diet. Those protein sources are superior, more nutritious, more well-rounded, etc. than eating big slabs of meat. I have done the diet without meat for several weeks before and it was great and very convenient. I was a little snotty with milk if I drank it too late in the day, but other than that it was great.
Raw vegetables and fermented vegetables probably won't do much for you. I ate fermented vegetables daily for about 3 years and noticed nothing spectacular about it. I also used to graze on raw vegetables and think there are inherent risks with overdoing it on that. I used to sit down and eat a half head of raw cabbage for example. Doh!
But they are fine – just as good as cooked veggies, although I'm pretty sure the turnip greens I've been pounding lately are nutritionally superior to anything one would ferment or eat raw.
Hi Matt,
Just to add since you mention Peat and estrogen, polyunsaturated fat seems to be estrogen-promoting (obviously there are other negatives as well).
Although estrogen excess is common, it's of course not black and white. I'd guess many people with low metabolism/thyroid function actually have low progesterone and low estrogen.
A lot of people who take Letrozole have very low libido (aromatase receptor knockout mice, who become obese, are interesting too) and joint pain. In general though, it's probably a good idea to use dietary interventions to lower estrogen and increase progesterone.
Surely we don't have to eat the WHOLE steak? That last part is just gristle and fat.
That's an interesting point, that RRARF would be particularly indicated for pregnancy. And perhaps the ways that the hormone ratios change during pregnancy itself makes it a good time for the body to reap best possible results. However, we worry about the overcrowded planet and think that maybe it would be better if fewer people chose to have kids (no disrespect to the happy new parents here, of course–I recently became an aunt and totally respect my brother and s-i-l's decision too).
On the hormone thing, and the relation with thyroid/adrenal probs, I just got some recent data myself (I might have mentioned already, sorry if repeating): I take a progesterone supp because mine is messed up but a month-long saliva test revealed that as well as spiking estrogen at weird times, my testosterone is elevated. These are probably both due to too many years with no body fat for these hormones to go, and continued excess production. I know that a lot of people are trying to increase testosterone these days: any ideas on whether carb increase (as I've been doing) will help normalize it?
Btw, after being ecstatic about feeling better on starches, I'm having some bumps. Stomach pains, diarrhea, no appetite–feels pretty counterintuitive to continue eating, but I've been soldiering on… Here's to sharing knowledge and learning from one another.
John-
Definitely some subtle nuances to estrogen. There are 3 primary types for example and I would imagine when ovarian production falls with stress for example, levels of estrone (not estriol or estradiol) produced in the adrenal glands would rise. Estrone seems to have more of the negative anti-respiratory and anti-metabolic effects Peat equates with estrogen, whereas with other types it's not so cut and dry.
Ela-
I'll be talking about testosterone production in the absense of sufficient progesterone soon. In women when progesterone production declines testosterone and estrone production pick up in the adrenals, causing masculinization, PCOS, and so forth. This is actually quite common. There are at least a half dozen women who I communicate with directly with some degree of this going on, and raising metabolism while bringing progesterone up with it reverses this trend.
Way cool Matt! I've been thinking a lot about this lately – the interplay between nutrients and the mechanisms that put them to work. I've studied a lot of soil science the past 2 years (hubby and i own an extremely depleted farm) and found that even if we spread tons and tons of the best fertilzer (nutrients) on our land, it might not do any good if the soil life and god knows what else isn't there to work with it (similar to your CLO and non-functioning bodies theme). But, abundant soil nutrients in good balance are very conducive to healthy, thriving soil life. And, soil nutrients (minerals) contribute just 5% to plant matter (ash). Nutrients are essential, but the amounts are tiny in the big picture. The remaining 95% come from air, water, sunlight.
So I think it's the same way with us. Nutrients are essential and help to get our bodies working optimally, but maybe they are just 5% important. Eating plenty, living happily, sleeping great make up the 95% for us.
It would be great to see WAPF and others promote body temperature, eating plenty, sleeping, etc 95% of the time and CLO 5% of the time.
OMG, Best. Post Ever. You magnificent racist bastard. I'm pretty sure your blog could be monetized by the sale of 180 Fertility banana hammocks.
The ease of labor part is yet another thing that makes me wish that this RRarf was around in 2006. Four fricken days! Ack.
I can also attest to having easier periods. They aren't exactly a cakewalk, but in my twenties before I was on the pill, I would get totally knocked out by it. I'd miss at least one day of work or school. I'd be laid out with headache, nausea, back pain, light-headedness, and horrible cramps. I'm able to at least go to work now and I take much less in the way of tylenol, etc. than I did back then. A pint of Guinness, some chocolate, a strong cup of tea with sugar and maybe a romantic comedy, are all the medicine I need.
Ela I don't know that we have overcrowded this sucker yet …especially not your neck of the woods in Alaska lol
it has been said that if we gave an acre of land to everyone on the plane it would not even fill up Australia. I think maybe the key would be to use what we have more effectively. 75 % of food gets destroyed before it reaches the consumer…. they let piles of corn rot in north dakota I've seen it…. I say eat and grow more waste less. If all the smart people that discuss this sort of thing quit populating and we will have a Idiocracy going real quick to add to the malformed teeth and shitty metabolism.
Jenny
Rarrf was around back then it was called "not dieting " or the seefood diet :)
Hi Mat
I'm wondering what your thoughts are on the cause of ovulation pain? I'v had this since I was 14 or 15 although I'm no longer incapacitated once a month as I was as a teenager. This seemed to go away when I did low carb and come back now i'm back on carbs. I think this is mostly related to an increased in wind on carbs putting pressure on them.
Chief,
how's your blog coming along? Still anxiously awaiting to read about your lifestyle and thoughts about diet.
The pressure women feel to keep their weight down during pregnancy is really bad and counter-productive. Having a starved, puny baby is not going to prevent its getting fat as it grows — au contraire. A well-fed-from-the-womb baby is much less likely to crave junk, in my experience. And which baby's going to better handle being squeezed down the birth canal — a 5 pounder or a 9 pounder?
Ela, I sort of thought the same thing too till my best friend went through the hell of being part of an infertile couple and rejected for infant adoption. And they didn't have the money to buy a baby from overseas. Eventually the test tube route worked but if it weren't for an extremely generous insurance plan, they wouldn't have been able to afford that either.
Matt, I'd be interested to know if anyone has contacted you about male fertility issues, since that accounts for up to 40% of infertile couples.
maggieo, I agree. I was doing weight watchers when I got pregnant and I started doing something called "Fit Pregnancy" which was pretty much weight watchers only with nutrient counters instead of calorie counters in so that you could add that neurosis as well. On the forums people were freaking out if they gained more than the doctor recommended poundage. Of course since most of them had dieted prior to being "fit pregnant" they were simply going through rebound. Obstetricians start the gestational diabetes lecture the minute you present with few pounds over your recommended weight.
There's also a lot of pressure to continue doing whatever exercise craziness your doing as well. On running forums you regularly see people arguing about whether or not its a good idea to keep training for a marathon while pregnant.
Good to hear that metabolism-raising can undo the whole PCOS-type/beard-growing cycle… I'll look forward to seeing what else you have to say.
Chief, yes–I've worked as a chef and as a farmer, and the amount of food that gets wasted even in the small-scale operations I was involved with is enough to make you weep. I wish I could figure out what could be done about that, to make a better distribution.
Jenny–I understand, and adopting is definitely a nightmare now compared to what it used to be, from what I understand…
rosenfeltc ,
working alot on it, should be less than 5 days ill be at the 2 week mark of documenting the all you can eat diet and have something worth sharing. im organizing the content and it will all get uploaded on day 14
trying to get some of my other sites updated as well.
it has been a big overhaul of everything in my world for 2011. I promise it will be worth the (weight).
Matt,
Just do we can all be clear on what your new recommendations are.
WAPF = optimal human diet?
PACE = optimal exercise?
Chief,
what are your other sites?
JT,
businesses, I have quite a few things I do outside of health and fitness.
Matt! I knew one of these days you would FINALLY talk about this!! I just wanted to put my own two cents in here. While RRAF helped regulate my period for the first two months, it suddenly stopped in December. I was still eating realy well so I was pretty confused. I just recently pin-pointed the problem: I had started using a tea-tree oil soap for my facewash. That's when I learned one of the scariest words: XENOEXTROGENS. There are natural ones as well as millions of chemical ones all around the environment. From shampoos to washing detergents,all make-up sunscreens,soaps, lavandar oil… estrogen-mimicking substances are EVERYWHERE. When substances are placed on skin, they are absorbed directly into the bloodstream (does not go through liver) and thus your body gets a high dosage of whatever you use– for me I had a massive amount of estrogen, which prevented my body from creating progesterone. I did not realize that cutting back in these crazy chemicals would be so difficult- they are literally everywhere. I wouldn't be surprised if this huge chemical dominance causes infertility in men. I just started using natural progesterone on my skin and my period came immediately back. But I can't use it forever, and I hope that my body will be able to regulate my hormones on its own now that I have cut back dramatically in my major-estrogen usage. So yeah, pay attention to what you put on your skin!!
Matt,
I added in IsoCort and progesterone cream (second two weeks of cycle only) to my daily regamin, and the change has been astounding.
I ahve been taking it for close to 2 weeks now, and I am starting to see the morning shakes and weakness abate finally.
This experience has shown me that supplimentation in severe cases is an absolute must.
The goal with the IsoCort is to be in it for 6 months, and then take several more months to wean slowly off it.
Paula
OK, Caroline, thanks for that. I started using Doc Bronner's tea tree on my scalp a couple of weeks ago. I will stop right away. I just wanted to keep some of the laurel sulphates from my beloved Aveda shampoo out of the river.
How did you pinpoint that by the way, that it was the face soap?
Wonderful post Matt!
As a mother who has had two children, one on a SAD diet and one on a whole foods diet, I have witnessed how important to role nutrition plays on mother and baby. I was the typically prego with my first, I ate ice cream, candy and pizza on a weekly bases. I had a horrible pregnancy. I was in labor for 71 hours and my son was stillborn.
I ate a whole foods diet during my second pregnancy. I felt wonderful the entire time. I was only in labor for 4 hours. The pain of my second labor wasn't even half as hard as my first. My midwife didn't make it time, so my close friend and my husband were the only ones there with me.
I look forward to some major over feeding prior and during my next pregnancy. It'll be interesting to see how different it will be compared to my first two.
Paula,
Great point,and something I found true for me as well.
There is no reason to believe that diet is the cure for everything. But, for those with orthorexia, this almost an impossible idea to grasp.
What I really want to know (especially after having spent the last few days sick with a stomach bug) and haven't been able to find anything about is what causes morning sickness and what can be done before conception to prevent it. Anyone?
JT-
I've just finished a book. It's 99 single-spaced pages, so I don't know if I can clarify my position on eating in 3 words. It's certainly not WAPF (you dick!). No pork rinds or lard or chicken skin or turkey necks or mandatory bone broth sipping or vegetable fermenation or brain omelets or grain soaking or raw meat consumption required. Here is an excerpt which might put it into perspective….
"So what the heck do ya eat? For starters, I wouldn’t even call it ?The High Everything Diet? if I were you. That was just a term coined to describe it because nothing major was restricted. Your diet shouldn’t have a name or be something you can tweet about using the # sign. If you, in your chronic dieting ways must name it, it should be your first name, followed by an apostrophe s, and the word ?Diet. So for example, what I eat is referred to as ?Matt’s Diet. If your name is Jean Claude Van Damme, then what you eat is called ?Jean Claude’s Diet,? and probably consists mostly of metal chards and King Cobra filets. If your name is Shooter McGavin, then you probably eat pieces of shit like Happy Gilmore for breakfast. My diet is different every week and depends on what I feel like eating, what’s on sale, what I’m sick of from the week before, etc."
Paula –
Yeah, that's great. Never being able to get past the low energy hump while eating carbs was a red flag for me that your adrenals were pretty much shot. Hope the rehab with HC and progesterone goes smoothly.
Caroline –
Totally. Our entire world is awash in estrogens, which is why it's so important to know how to increase progesterone production as well as keep estrogen low – in addition to knowing how to keep it flowing out properly (healthy liver, high-fiber diet).
Winter is also a big stress due to lower daylight hours that is a huge contributing factor as well. Winter is a huge reproduction and gestation killer in animals (higher estrogen to progesterone ratio that time of year, and lower thyroid output). I would think mid-summer conception and a spring birth would be ideal for humans and their 9-month gestation period (in a seasonal climate at least, which I would argue is not truly "natural" as far as our design is concerned).
Kelly-
Like I said, not enough focus in the nutrition world on how the body is working. Good quality nutrtition can help, but like I said I think it takes very specific tactics to dig oneself out of a hole. The name of the game for most is reducing cortisol (lower stress/more sleep), increasing thyroid (which also lowers cortisol), and the things that follow such as a rise in progesterone. Of course, there is nothing that we don't eat, think, drink, breathe, touch, or experience that doesn't exert a power on these hormonal systems. Nutrition is a biggee, but it can be undermined by all different kinds of stresses.
Nipper-
No men contacting me yet with infertility issues, but one can start by throwing out the banana hammock. Sorry, your business idea is shot.
But Ela should sell them to keep the human population down. Make sure you get a cut Nipper.
Morning sickness-
Peat does say something about this but I forget what it was. His solution for most things relating to women's health issues, and this is a pretty safe bet actually, is "more progesterone."
Peat is the same way with progesterone as Christopher Walken is with cowbell in the cowbell SNL skit. "To be honest with you, I coulda used a little more cowbell."
If your name is Jean Claude Van Damme, then what you eat is called ?Jean Claude’s Diet,? and probably consists mostly of metal chards and King Cobra filets.
I eat metal shards myself, but never much cared for the rainbow, Swiss, or metal chards.
Also, better make sure that banana hammock's made of polyester.
Matt, have you addressed PCOS? If so, I missed it. If not, you need to. There is a huge difference between women who have irregular cycles because a of hormone imbalance and those who have PCOS.
For women reading this, according to my naturopath, a woman with estrogen dominance will have short cycles with long, heavy periods. A woman with progesterone dominance will have long cycles with short, light periods. I have long cycles with long, heavy periods, which doesn't fit either pattern. It's PCOS. And PCOS is more likely to be aggravated than fixed with lots of carbs.
I RRARF-ed for a couple of months and gained a whopping 35 lb., which, 6 months later, I'm still trying to lose – mostly around the middle. Since then I have discovered that I've probably had PCOS all my life (hence the irregular cycles), which means I also have serious carb/sugar issues. I also have Hashimoto's thyroiditis (which PCOS women are 4X more likely to get). Sooo, unless you have a brilliant solution about how to RRARF with PCOS and clinical thyroid disease, a disclaimer is probably in order… a serious warning to women with those conditions that all they have worked for (weight-loss wise) will disappear and out of their reach for a very long time. No bitterness or anything. ;-)
I often wonder if children born of the perfect pregnancy (as you see it) would have higher or lower IQs than an average pregnancy eating SAD. Anyone care to speculate?
I imagine most peoples initial reaction would be of course and Matt mentions that progesterone increases brain size. However I could see reasons a less than perfect pregnancy could produce higher IQs. For example frame size would likely be larger with a healthier pregnancy, but smaller people tend to be higher in sensitivity (in a neurological sense). High sensitivity is associated with higher IQ.
Jenny-
I just read about the crazy shampoo chemicals not to long ago–I am waiting for the day that I resort to cracking eggs on my head.
Anyways, I started using tea-tree oil facewash in early November and then suddenly I skipped my period yet I did ovulate in December which is never good- a sign of too much estrogen. I didn't think much about my facewash until I read this article:
http://www.nih.gov/news/pr/jan2007/niehs-31.htm. It made me rethink my use of "natural" cleansers.
Maybe I am a little paranoid about those xenoestrogens, and as Matt pointed out, it could have been stress or the winter weather, but all the same, I don't think anyone should use that that stuff:/
Let me know how your poo-less shampoo adventures go…
Lattebreak-
PCOS seems to be most related to insulin resistance – or carb/sugar issues as you say.
But RRARF is an attempt to improve those issues, and has improved insulin resistance even in those that have gained 35 pounds of mostly abdominal fat as you have (such as myself for example, although I gained 20, not 35).
Autoimmune disease is most likely an imbalance in adrenal hormones interacting with the thymus, which is also still thyroid related. It's all interrelated of course, but I suspect, like Peat believes, that autoimmune disease is "nothing special," in that its cause is a very minor imbalance with a simple fix.
I have seen someone lose weight, develop PCOS and autoimmune disease on a low-carb diet before, which were both cured by gaining weight on a higher carb diet.
Of course the person didn't care that the diseases were gone, only the weight gain mattered. He/she was bitter too.
So am I.
If you want to continue having carb/sugar issues and Hashi's I strongly recommend a low-carb diet continued for life.
I'd be happy to discuss this further, and will be continuing on the autoimmune disease and women's hormones track for a while, so stick around.
In-
You'd think that would be the case, but supposedly high metabolism kids develop pretty slowly, hit puberty really late, and have great health due to a much larger head to body size ratio according to grand quackster Peat.
Islanders in Papua New Guinea don't hit puberty until their mid to late teens for example, just as it was in the United States in 1900. This is all chalked up by the authorities to be due to "improved nutrition."
Mike Jones, great link mate. Thanks.
In: "For example frame size would likely be larger with a healthier pregnancy" – I don't think such an assumption is warranted. I think the Western tendency towards increased height may be a result of endocrine disruption, NOT improved health. Yes, Western women tend to prefer taller men, which would normally indicate some kind of evolutionary preference, but in a lot of other cultures height makes no difference in mate selection so I think that it isn't necessarily an indicator of good health.
Also, I am of the opinion that IQ is bullshit. (And I have an IQ of 135, putting me in the 98th percentile of "Intelligence" Quotient scores.) I've met plenty of people who have high IQs but can't manage normal day-to-day life. (I'm one of them really.)
Nice re-design over here Matt, Header could do with being a bit bigger though……
Nice response to JT's comment (which was pretty silly), just because you are recommending fat with the carbs does not mean WAPF. There is a balance we all seem to find with adding too much fat to carbs – too much is sickly and makes us feel sh*t, too little is bland and makes us feel like sh*t, let your body be the judge…..
Anyway this is a very interesting topic, and again shows the importance of a high metabolism over pretty much everything else when it comes to health.
Don't know if you clocked this over at perfect health diet http://goo.gl/zNnGg apparently there is more proof that most of our ancestors ate 20% carbs, I know this doesn't mean its optimal. But was wondering if you think the data is legit?
Some interesting nuggets in the article Chris links to:
Another interesting observation from this data is that fruits were generally a less important source of calories than roots. It is likely that starches have outweighed sugars as a source of calories for humans for at least the last 2 million years.
And…
The preference for starchy roots and tubers over sugary fruits is also no surprise. Not only are roots and tubers more calorie rich than most fruits, they are also (given the problematic nature of fructose) probably the healthier choice!
MATT-
Still laughing at the "good old Chief joke" Ha ha!
I too have been bitten by the Ray Peat bug. Last month I used progesterone cream to help eliminate any deficiency. I am in two minds whether I should continue this or not? I mean, shouldn't RRARF eventually take care of this? Would adding hormones possibly confuse the body even more, making it harder to reach homeostasis? What are your thought on this?
I really look forward to your future post on testosterone and women -hint hint!
;-)
Matt,
I new you would appreciate the WAPF comparison! I was joking with you a little bit, but I don't really see the big difference. You both recommend a high fat and high carb diet of "whole" foods. Seriously, what's the big difference, and whats to keep the people here from getting all plumped up like the WAPFers, especially while overfeeding?
I know for me, that I can gain weight the easiest by mixing lots of fats and carbs together. Actually, this is the only type of eating that would allow me to gain weight and fat rapidly, because it allows me to eat much more calories.
You never answered the question on PACE = optimal exercise? What makes it different from all the other high intensity interval training?
Chris & Tezza, Dont get sucked in by the Paleo propaganda. Just because a grok might have eaten something 20000 years ago doesn't mean it is good for you, because you are different.
The 10000 Year Explosion is a great book that explains how modern man is very different. If they are correct then human evolution has sped up 100 times faster in the past 10,000 years! You and your ancestors have probably already adapted to a Neolithic diet.
Very interesting post and comments. I once ate a pint of strawberry Hagen-daz over the course of an evening in mid-pregnancy – probably in need of more fat in my diet. I hope you will address post-menopausal issues – especially, ahem, low sex drive. My sweetie would really appreciate this. Thanks!
Chris-
As Price's travels showed, "primitive" humans sometimes ate a lot of carbs and sometimes not a lot depending on what was available in the area. Like I said, human food life was similar to the sex life of a prisoner – in the absence of the preferred gender otherwise straight guys take a liking to one another.
What humans ate when nothing else was available does not mean optimal. What I think is a better indicator is what humans eat in the presence of all macronutrients in unlimited abundance. When this happens, the diet always becomes primarily starch-based with plenty of accompanying fat and moderate amounts of meat.
Modern science shows us that in terms of insulin sensitivity, athletic performance, muscle-building, production of short-chain fats in the gut, keeping cortisol levels low and so forth – why this type of diet is superior.
In the modern world this is probably even more true as fiber is a key defense against estrogen, and short-chain fats are a key defense against the buildup of polyunsaturates and a low metabolism.
JT-
The optimal exercise for body composition is high-intensity exercise. PACE is just one simple and safe way for people to achieve that. It's different from intervals in that it is progressive just like any good program, not just the same windows of exertion and recovery over and over again that's meant to apply to everyone at any age and at any fitness level.
In terms of diet, if a person cannot eat to appetite of fat and carbohydrate mixed together, then they will likely become obese in the modern world. Anyone can stay lean on rabbit food, but that is hypothetical to the vast majority of people, as eating rabbit food, or a low-carb diet…
a) Increases cravings and desire to binge
b) Makes eating at restaurants or with friends very fattening
c) Often leads to long-term health and mood disorders
Humans are simply too complex. For example in a study where they told people a full-fat milkshake that they were given was low-fat, they drank more of it than when they were told it was full-fat.
Being able to eat to satisfaction of both mixed together at various ratios without weight gain is liberating, and is a powerful tool to have in the modern food environment.
The only time I've gained fat eating the two together in the last several years was when I did so:
a) After eating a low-carb diet
b) After excessive endurance exercise
c) After eating a low-fat diet
A, B, and C make a regular mixed diet more fattening.
And everyone except the most militant physique enthusiast is eventually going to gravitate towards mixing fat and carbohydrate together.
But diets do need to be customized to fit lifestyles accordingly. Eat too much fat and my exercise performance dramatically falls. So yes, eating more carbohydrate than fat is certainly appropriate for anyone engaged in high-intensity exercise.
Great point JT, and one I was also planning on making to Chris.
Most primitive isolated groups became well-adapted to the specific diet they had eaten for several generations or more.
That's also why I think modern humans tend to suffer health consequences when trying to eat like an Eskimo, Masai warrior, or Zulu tribesman with 90% of dietary calories as carbohydrates. We are not well-adapted to such diets. Most of us are better adapted to a diet that is more balanced.
More imporantly on topic with this post, is that if you want your kids to be well-adapted to the modern diet that is high in fat and carbohdyrates and protein – then you should eat that way and not restrict any macronutrient before or during pregnancy.
Thanks for addressing PCOS, Matt. I'm a little less cranky this morning (…well of course I'm cranky half the time–I'm low-carbing!!!!). Ahem. Anyway, so the real question is, what in the WORLD am I supposed to do now?!!! I guess I could try RRARF-ing again, but you know I'm scared to death to do that. Maybe it doesn't seem like a big deal to you, but 35 lb. on a woman is NOT the same as 20 lb. on a guy. Men are not expected to wear fitted, cute clothes. And you can easily pass an extra 20 lb. off as "big bones". We girls haven't been able to get away with the Big Boned excuse since the mid-'90s. And there is something deeply feminine-feeling about having a waistline. Looking like an caramel apple on a stick? Not so feminine. I can't afford another 35 lb., emotionally or financially. At some point a girl's got to stop wearing stretchy "fat pants" and buy decent clothes that are fit to be seen in public. Another 35 lb. and 3 more sizes?!! I'll have to shop in the plus size section. It's a big deal! So I'm currently trying to correct my digestion, my naturopath is desensitizing me to some foods I'm allergic to (like milk. Boy is that hard to give up.) I'm getting acupuncture, …and low-carbing. Yes, my temperature is low. Yes, it was higher when I was RRARFing. But after 2 months and 35 lb surely I should have seen a permanent change in metabolism and been able to lose some extra afterward, right? Help me out here, Matt!
Jenny said,
"maggieo, I agree. I was doing weight watchers when I got pregnant and I started doing something called "Fit Pregnancy" which was pretty much weight watchers only with nutrient counters instead of calorie counters in so that you could add that neurosis as well. On the forums people were freaking out if they gained more than the doctor recommended poundage. Of course since most of them had dieted prior to being "fit pregnant" they were simply going through rebound. Obstetricians start the gestational diabetes lecture the minute you present with few pounds over your recommended weight.
There's also a lot of pressure to continue doing whatever exercise craziness your doing as well. On running forums you regularly see people arguing about whether or not its a good idea to keep training for a marathon while pregnant."
I'm glad we've got your perspective on here. It helps remind me why I got so caught up in nutrition and why I continue to read this site, even though I feel like I've come around in terms of diet and don't feel like I need so much guidance anymore.
Latte-
I've been given plenty of grief for any fat I've gained I assure you. My "girlfriend" is certainly nowhere to be found, lol.
I'm still a big fan of trying to fix insulin resistance instead of medicate it. This doesn't have to mean force-feeding yourself.
Instead I'd rather steer someone with your issues towards more of a "beans and greens" approach to reducing insulin resistance kind of like that used by Joel Fuhrman, but with meat at most meals instead of carnorexia.
It's been known since forever that a high-fiber, high resistance starch, whole foods diet is excellent for lowering insulin resistance. I think you'd be likely to have great results with it as long as you don't go to extremes of animal product or fat deletion, which will probably make you binge and gain weight incrementally like so many do on McDougall or Furhman's approach to improving glucose metabolism.
Here's my story, and how it relates to this post: My first two kids, before I became enlightened, I ate a diet filled with processed foods and very little fat. They both got dental carries (cavities) on the fronts of their upper front teeth before they were two. (And my second went on to have lots of cavities, even though we switched to a nourishing diet before he even started solids.)
My third child (whom I had an extraordinary diet with, much like Matt describes here, along with the CLO, vitamin D supplements, and high-vitamin butter oil)… she has exceptional teeth.
Eat well before and during pregnancy, people. Eat well.
Totally Goofy mama. The far-reaching effects of pre, peri, and postnatal nutrition are highly underestimated. All I'm saying here is that it's not the nutrients themselves, although they are key, but the overall health of your body and metabolism that really determine junior's health.
My daughter was born on SAD, but changed to whole foods at about 1 year. Now at 3.5yrs her dental arch is looking good, and teeth are well formed, spaced and no cavities. She does have more refined carbs then me, but is well mannered, very caring, and I think she is a smarty of course!
On to me;
I know I am not an anomaly, but I have been over-eating for 16 months without any exercise, and I am not gaining any weight at all, if anything I am getting leaner. There has been no rise in my basal temp. It is 97.2 still, so metabolism doesn't seem to rev up over night.
Curious to see Chief's protocol too, I think I must be doing something similar now and it works. I still eat 3 to 4 large mixed whole foods meals (high in sat fat, higher in unrefined carbs) everyday, until I am stuffed. I avoid PUFA's and refined carbs at home only. and minimum get 8hrs sleep.
My gym membership restarts next week, so almost about to start to MET, HIIT, something…. have to post some results in the spring with respect to that.
matt said
"a) After eating a low-carb diet
b) After excessive endurance exercise
c) After eating a low-fat diet
A, B, and C make a regular mixed diet more fattening"
I would add calorie restriction to that matt.
just thought of something excessive endurance and calorie restriction are the same .. so you technically had it covered. anyways
I think people that gain weight when the change their diet is most likely because they are restricting themselves somehow and their body would like to carry a few extra if it was not getting short changed. The "demand" is there the "supply" is lacking. The other thing is the body streamlines its
processes in the absence of certain nutrients and it becomes like a wave of customers without enough cashiers at the grocery store.
It's not because "oh carbs spike my blood sugar and i gain fat"
or "fat is denser in calories so I accidentally eat to many calories"
your body has a calorie meter just like it has a water meter to keep you from drinking too much water. sure people can force-feed themselves water and food but if they listen to their bodies it is all automatic.
Tezza,
what are you basing the idea that tall men are not attractive in most cultures ?
Everything I have read on mate selection says otherwise so i would be very interested to see other views on it.
@latte,
Do you think the acupuncture is helping? I'm looking into it for my current condition. I can completely relate to the emotional and financial need to stop the weight gain. I can't afford yet another brand new wardrobe at the rate this is happening…
Jean Claude was always my favorite. You had to either like him or Stephen Segal. The Segal lover's always claimed he was more realistic. Find me better acting than Bloodsport or Kockboxer, im-friggin-possible.
That's supposed to be Kickboxer. I don't know where the friggin iPhone autocorrect come up with that. Is there a such thing?
"what are you basing the idea that tall men are not attractive in most cultures ?"
I'd like to know that too. Besides me, short guys are always "just friends".
I love the logic that restricting 'makes' a regular diet 'fattening.' The idea that that can be remedied is quite liberating.
I love the idea that autoimmune problems can be adjusted and remedied quite simply, but I can image some people getting annoyed by the suggestion. Which makes me wonder how much of our healing is impeded by our attachment to and identification with our problems (god knows I'm guilty).
Looking forward to more on the PCOS and female hormones discussion. I should say that since I've been taking sublingual progesterone (about 10 months now), a lot of things have been a lot better, from the mechanics of lovemaking and menstruation to general energy levels. So the sublingual might be a good one to look at, as well as the cream.
One last thing, since there's some talk about hormones and insulin resistance: I thought I'd gotten insulin resistant because my blood sugar crashes a lot. But my ND was horrified that I took chromium, said I should never take it again and that that's not the problem. Lately, eating better and more regularly, I've noticed that my blood sugar hasn't been crashing immediately after eating an apple (for ex.). But when I restricted for several days a couple weeks ago, apple=instant blood sugar crash again! So I think that how much food you're eating (or not) could cause your body to mimic certain insulin effects.
@Ela, what's horrifying about chromium?
Sorry I was unclear–the 'horrifying' thing was my self-misdiagnosis as insulin-resistant: chromium is great for treating that, but I was taking chromium when I wasn't insulin resistant, because I thought I was, if that makes sense…
@Ela, I understand. I guess I was surprised that someone would say never take chromium unless you're IR. What so bad about it?
I mean, the Jaminets recommend it generally on their Perfect Health Diet.
And orthorexia off…
"your body has a calorie meter just like it has a water meter to keep you from drinking too much water. sure people can force-feed themselves water and food but if they listen to their bodies it is all automatic."
That's freakin gold right there. Straight up money.
UNDERTOW-
It's interesting that your temperature hasn't gotten higher, yet your not gaining weight (actually leaning out) AND your pounding down the food.
Seems like temperature isn't much related to weight gain after all..
How would you explain that MATT?
Sheila,
i would attribute it to needin' a little jump start.
Form what undertow has said he has not lead a very intense life as of recent. The body just hasn't popped out of its protective mode. Sometimes it needs a little nudge.It's not efficient for the body to take risks and jump outside of the "safe zone" Weight gain ( fat) has nothing to do with temperature increase people gain the fat because of what Caused their metabolic downgrade not because of lack of fat. Sometimes the 2 go together because the body protects itself when it lacks nutrients by burning less and "chilling" below its desired fat mass amount and when they rarrf it comes back like the Terminator T-800 series.
JOHNNY,
Seeing as he trained in a tropical region he most likely ate a KOCKBOXER'S food of choice COCOCUNTS
CHIEF-
So people can have a low body temperature AND be very efficient in burning fat? Those two does not necessarily go hand in hand. Is that what your saying?
@Gazelle,
Acupuncture is definitely helping. I'm actually getting needled for kidney, which showed up weak, and which seems to be a big part of the underlying cause. Since my ND started acupuncture on my kidney, my thyroid has consistently tested stronger (muscle testing). In Chinese med. the kidney is the life force. I've been much less depressed, and my energy has been better. He says that a person will heal twice as fast with acu. than with supplements.
So, Matt, you're not necessarily recommending overfeeding, just that I not neglect complex carbs. Is that right?
Latte-
Eat to appetite always. I think with beans, greens, a few other starches and vegetables combined with a little fat and meat will regulate appetite and weight really well for you without the long-term consequences of long-term carb restriction.
Ela-
In a dieted state the body doesn't release glycogen very well. This is one commonality amongst all reduced obese and people with eating disorder pasts. But once you get to a certain point it disappears without a trace. It does not need to be "medicated" with high-protein diets or any of that. It can be overcome completely and should be the aim of anyone with hypoglycemia. Low-carb diets are horrendous for creating this self-fulfilling "carbs spike and crash my blood sugar" prophecy.
Sheila-
The lowest body temperatures I've ever seen were in people without an ounce of fat on them. You can have a low body temperature at any weight, and not gaining weight eating a lot of food doesn't necessarily mean high metabolism. It could mean high wasted calories through defecation or otherwise. I don't think Gal Sone has a high metabolism for example.
Undertow did bring his temps. up a little substantially, they just never came all the way up.
Hey Undertow-
Have you tried tweaking meal frequency around at all? 6 meals vs. 2 for example? I was wondering how this would effect your ability to secrete glycogen in the wee hours of the morning to keep your blood sugar stable. This obviously could be related to your low-temps as I know you're having trouble sleeping through the night regularly.
Kockboxer-
That's amazingly funny. Van Damme over Seagal any day, although Seagal was awesome in the movie Machete, which is pretty much a must see for anyone who likes hilarious dark humor. It's kinda Tarantino style, and well, Seagal's in it. What else do I need to say?
Chief –
Yes, I always try to make a point of lumping low-calorie and endurance exercise in there too.
@ Gazelle–I'm sorry to have been confusing. What I was trying to convey was that my ND said that chromium would not be appropriate for me. He thought that rather than being IR, I'm somewhat insulin-hypersensitive, so chromium would make that worse. I don't think he was saying no one should eat it ever. And it's in lots of foods and herbs, so it's not like I don't eat any, I just no longer supplement 1,000mg/day in the vain hope that it'll make me skinny again!
@Matt: so I guess the remediation of hypoglycemia that I notice when I eat well (and then the worsening of same when I restrict) is an illustration of your point that eventually it goes away completely. That's really heartening. I need to keep my focus on this, but it still feels like an act of faith at times.
Good distinction between no weight gain because of high-temp versus because of 'inefficient' excretion. Although my temps are still on the low side, they're nowhere close to as low as they were when I was emaciated (I remember one horrible winter in Berkeley when my temp didn't go above 93 for about two weeks: I felt like my brain was fuzzing away.)
Another thought: I sometimes think that terms like 'thrifty' 'inefficient,' are inappropriately valorizing slow metabolisms and demeaning fast ones. Plus, what about those of us with slow metabolisms (i.e. gain weight easily) but with absorption problems? That doesn't sound so thrifty/efficient…
Chief & Sheila,
You don't have to have a high body temp to burn body fat. I had a low body temp for a long time, but still was able to burn fat extremely fast.
Matt, changing to more then 4 meals a day would be something I would like to try, but schedule and etc would keep me from doing that now. 3 meals and not stressing about eating all the time is where I am at right now.
Going to be adding back exercise next week, and will see where that gets me.
Sleep has actually been gradually getting better though, so maybe some MET will help with that too.
For my basal you are correct, climbed from 96.8 to 97.2 in the first 4 months of RRARF, but it stopped at 97.2, stuck there for the last year.
MATT, I wonder bout Gal Sone, must make a point to "investigate" her on a pitstop on the 180 field trip..
JT, i agree someone could be starving and have a low body temp and would have to burn fat or die.
Sheila, Im saying hat the body will take the path of least resistance. If undertow can live day to day at 97 and everything is rolling along unless the body sees new demands that warrant more temp it will just chill there. the same goes for fat mass it will just chill there.
Undertow, I would take it easy at first and pick one day a weak to "hit it hard" at the gym and then EAT !!!
Chief, that is the plan, going to start real easy, with lots of rest/recoup time and eat TONS.
I will track BG, temps and leanness.
I'm off topic as usual, but I have a question. Tonight I went to a mexican restaurant for dinner and tried my best to drop the orthorexic tendencies & just order something… I got chicken fajitas with corn tortillas (to avoid wheat). I have been avoiding wheat/dairy/sugar for the past month and have experienced a miraculous reduction in my asthma symptoms… usually I start wheezing every night around 8. Tonight it came back, along with a feeling of being wiped out! Do you all think its more likely to be wheat in the tortillas, the small amt of cheese on the beans, the likely processed oils it was cooked in, or the sugar in the ghirardelli caramel chocolate I had (after v. low sugar for a while) this afternoon? I know it's hard to speculate but my diet feels so restrictive when I go out to eat, even though I'm ok when I'm cooking for myself. I hate having to take my asthma medicine it feels like I'm hyped up on adderall.
Matt – What do you think about phytates? I know the WAPF discourages pregnant/nursing mothers from eating unsoaked whole grains/legumes due to their phytate content and how they reduce mineral absorption.
Undertow,
If you don't mind me asking, how is your digestion and elimination?
Your lack of weight gain sounds similar to mine. After doing the milk diet last May–which took me from 162 lbs up to 175 with an average temp of 97.1–eight months of RRARF have left me at 164 lbs with a typical morning temp of 96.8. I'm 6'3" and WANT to weigh more, but can't gain weight no matter how many sedentary days I pass eating absolutely huge meals of potatoes, butter, meat, roots, and milk. I'm also constipated often (but never have any abdominal discomfort or diarrhea), so I really don't understand where the food goes.
(Questions for Matt: Does constipation mean poor absorption or merely poor elimination? Can the two be separated?)
Anyway, I think something must be missing from the RRARF equation. Whether it's sun or fermented foods or what, I don't know. Maybe I just need to go on a diet to finally gain weight.
wheezy, Were the tortillas stiff and "waxy" ? or really flexible ?
I can try that, Matt. Thanks for the advice. My only problem with the beans is they're pretty hard to digest, and whenever things aren't… moving… I gain more weight around the middle. I take enzymes, and that helps, but doesn't seem to completely take care of it. Any thoughts?
JT wrote, "Chris & Tezza, Dont get sucked in by the Paleo propaganda. Just because a grok might have eaten something 20000 years ago doesn't mean it is good for you, because you are different."
JT, please read the link before commenting! The article linked to was not Paleo propaganda. It was based on a scientific article comparing the diets of a number of modern primitive tribes statistically. Not speculations on what people ate 20,000 years ago.
The points I wanted to make were the preference of starch to fructose, something which Matt talks about in his books.
Chief: That was from an article I read in a popular science magazine many years ago, before the internetz, studying attraction and mate selection in South American tribes. Unfortunately, I can't remember where I read it.
Tezza,
I did read the link. Paleos point to living hunter gatherer tribes as being ideal because they think everyone is still the same as the HGs 10000 years ago. The entire paleo diet belief is based on the fact that humans haven't evolved since then, but this isn't true. Look up the book I mentioned if you are interested in human evolution.
Mike Jones,
sounds like you aren't eating enough calories! Get em up higher and you will gain. Milk and dairy makes lots of people constipated. Look up some good bulking diets that bodybuilders, powerlifters, and Sumos use if this is your goal. I guess it is always possible that you have some sort of disorder that causes you to not gain weight, but it isn't likely to keep you that skinny if you were eating 12K calories a day.
One of my best friends had to gain 60 pounds one summer because he had lost too much weight and he was an offensive lineman on a college football team. He had no excuses and had to gain the weight or he would not be able to play and could lose his scholarship. Everyday was the same: gym & Buffett. Chief would have loved it. The guy was an eating machine and would eat to the point of puking every evening. One time I saw him puke up a half of a burrito that had never even been chewed! He wanted it bad enough so he did what it took to make it happen.
@undertow and anyone else talking about low body temp: (I think I mentioned this elsewhere but) my extreme-outdoor-endurance-feats husband, who eats and burns through everything and is always too hot, told me that his body temperature until recently was always at the low end of 97.
I know that's just anecdotal (and I wish someone could explain to me how it works!) but it gives some idea that there's more than just high metabolism at work, I guess (read extreme physical activity). But he's 62 and just starting to slow down, and aside from high cholesterol and glaucoma, he seems like the picture of health.
CHIEF-
First, you wanner "investigate" Gal Sone? Do I need to know any more or can I use my imagination? ;-P
" i agree someone could be starving and have a low body temp and would have to burn fat or die."
-by that, do you mean a person not really absorbing the nutrients, even though eating a lot of calories, would actually be starving and have to burn fat for energy?
JT-
"You don't have to have a high body temp to burn body fat. I had a low body temp for a long time, but still was able to burn fat extremely fast."
-when you say that,it makes me think of myself when I was younger. I remember never have been able to get a fever, even when I was really sick.
MATT-
Gal Sone -got ya! That makes sense, in regards to the non existing muscle she has going on. Argh! Why does all this have to be so complex? I want to fully understand it RIGHT NOW! :-D
Mike Jones said: " Does constipation mean poor absorption or merely poor elimination? Can the two be separated?"
-Interesting question. I would like to know that too.
I've been checking my body temperature in the morning and it's only been twice so far — 95.7 and 95.5.
I'm not happy but in a way I am because I feel like it's proof — at least to me — that what I'm going through and have been going through is real. At 5'10 and 144lbs I'm not underweight, and even when I was 130 (down from 167 due to anorexia and orthorexia) I felt like hell on earth but even that isn't severely underweight.
I think that misses the point, though; like people've always kind of been 'how can life be that hard for you,' I feel like through the suicidal depression/quasi-psychotic episodes I've had for years it's been really hard. Losing a lot of weight in a short amount of time on account of psychological problems is stressful regardless of whether you're at a 'healthy weight' or not.
I think a part of a low body temperature is maybe a lack of motivation? So many times I really just wished I could just lie down and die because trying to do anything about this is so difficult it feels like it's impossible.
I'm going to keep trying, though. I really appreciate you sharing all this information a whole lot. Through work like yours it gives a voice to people like me who otherwise are "diagnostic mysteries." It feels so good to have at least one objective thing that can be representative of why I feel so awful.
At the same time it's overwhelming, like reading about the defecation and calorie loss thing. Plenty of times I'll be going 4 times a day or more and it's relatively loose. I'm eating as much as I can but not gaining a pound. Then again it's a monumental effort for me to eat 2,000 calories a day. When I was 'primal' I'd have something like a can of spinach and a can of salmon for lunch and couldn't eat another bite after that. I'd binge on fat later in the day and sometimes dried fruit but even with that I'm wondering if I was even getting enough calories.
I'm rambling. I'm excited, though, like, for the first time in my life I have an objective way to say "this is real." That I'm not making up how difficult and painful this is and has been for so many years.
That means so much to me. I'm going to keep trying like I said, but that really feels like such a breakthrough. People've told me to 'suck it up' or 'shut up' or 'just get over it' or 'just let it go' my whole life and this really feels like compensation for me. I have scars from when I used to cut myself a lot and that's a proof to me — but this being an objective measurement, it's a level beyond that.
I'm not ashamed to share these things. I also am not trying to be overly dramatic. I love the jokes here and it really is a fun place to be, and 'geeking out' is one of my favorite things to do. I love this blog and the people on it. I just think that in one way or another we all need love and support and validation for our feelings.
Just had to go on a rant. I get excited pretty easily and this made me so happy this morning to see the temperature. One of those "I knew I wasn't making it up" moments.
Thanks again. Also hope no one minds me sharing my feelings. Not trying to be dramatic or anything, just happy to be able to see people who can 'get it.'
It pops by balloon when I tell people "I think it's because I have a low body temperature" and just get ignored or a kind of eye-roll thing, you know. So it's better sharing it here :p
Thank you again very much XD
P.S. To be fair, a lot of the calorie problems now might be my cooking too. I get lazy a lot and eating bland food gets old very quickly. Appetite fatigue is no good.
And the calorie problem was a lot worse than it's been since I found this blog and added starch back in. That actually is starting to resolve. My body temperature might be low but I also am basically completely new to RRARF — I've been reading this blog for longer than I've been really trying RRARF. Learning how to cook better and adding more foods into my diet seems like a preliminary step to doing RRARF full-on.
I'm happy to say I've recently added whole wheat bread back into my diet, for example, and that's making it easier to eat more.
And yeah, even though my temperature is low, I definitely feel a lot better after eating a meal with ample carbs, protein and fat. It might be a long time before I'm back 100%, and I might never even get to 100% or even 90%, but just being able to enjoy food again and not feeling like I have to compulsively avoid a lot of foods is great.
Once I start getting back on track I might start commenting more (maybe), as in commenting on issues that are pertinent to the discussions here. I like JT's comments for example for bringing another perspective into the picture, and I think it's a very good idea to challenge our own ways of thinking, and to allow others to do so, so the portrait of health we're painting is as holistic and unbiased as it can possibly be.
blah blah blah. Less talking, more eating. I feel like a kid in a candy store, though! (how ironic)
"businesses, I have quite a few things I do outside of health and fitness."
Translation: I'm a male-whore
Chief, thanks for noting my comment :)
They were flexible, they looked like flour tortillas but I knew they weren't because they smelled different. I only had one! Mexican food fills you up quick.
Um… I trust the pig-head photo is just on break? It will be back, right?
Right????
"Autoimmune disease is most likely an imbalance in adrenal hormones interacting with the thymus, which is also still thyroid related."
Where did this idea come from Matt? I'm interested as it fits in with my issues/diagnoses.
Also, which book/s would you recommend on adrenal burn out – James Wilson? or the other guy you mentioned on a blog post you did recently – or someone else?
Re: chromium supplements – I found that my lipoic acid supplement was giving me low blood sugar symptoms … I think we all have to be very careful with supplements. Especially those of us with adrenal problems since apparently those with adrenal issues are more sensitive/reactive to supplements.
Yes, Matt, I'd also like to know more about this "simple adrenal fix" that takes care of autoimmune diseases. Does that include allergies and gluten issues like Celiac's?
JT, I would not have loved it, lol I would not want to regurgitate a half of a burrito or anything for that matter. force feeding is not part of my lifestyle. Plus I imagine he was in the gym alot which would bore me ….
Sheila, that is a possible scenario it would be the same as not eating much if the nutrients are not absorbed. I know someone who nearly wiped out their gut flora and became emaciated eating normal.
maybe thats what gal sone has going on
Johnny LOL no man whoring for me… too busy besides Im too picky … to quote Big Pun I'm not a player I just hump alot
Jib, the body in an effort to conserve energy will keep the temperature low and the same mechanism will make you "lazy" for the same purpose. Fat people are not lazy they just are in a starvation response which has the effect of making you subconsciously avoid as much physical activity as possible. thats why getting them in the gym is tough, You have to break em out of that prison first.
keep at it :)
CHIEF-
Then how do you explain Undertow? If his body is trying to conserve energy (low temperature) why is he not gaining fat?
Regarding breaking out of the prison. I still don't feel like training but have kinda forced myself through a workout a few times now, because I feel it's time.
Would you call that counterproductive?
Mike Jones,
My digestion and elimination have not been great, but getting better in the last few weeks. I tried HCL for couple months along with digestive enzymes, not sure if they helped. I don't have constipation issues. What seems to have helped in the last few weeks is beans (lots of beans) and taking a pro-biotic. I hate taking supps, but the pro-biotic seems to keep things regular and moving down there. True; I eat mountains of food too, and I wonder where it is all going, if I am getting leaner, and basal is stuck. I haven't felt like working out until recently, so I will see what adding MET/HIIT to the equation will do…
I do think one of my main issues was being on lots of anti-biotics in my youth with SAD, so my gut flora is probably way off balance to this day.
In case your interested: http://www.iherb.com/now-foods-gr8-dophilus-60-vcaps/635?at=0
Saw these pics today, modern HG's, starch with every meal.
http://pmgtg.com/tree-people-in-indonesia/
Chief,
Actually his workouts were pretty short. Like Rippetoes stuff, 3-4 times a week fir about 45 minutes, mostly just squats, deads, bench. He had to keep volume low so that he could gain more weight. Too much volume would caused him to burn too many calories.
Usually only ate later in the day after he worked out so that he would be super hungry which would allow him to ingest huge amounts of food in a short period of time. I'm the same way, I have to eat larger less frequent meals to gain weight.
Nice find undertow. I have seen these tribes before that live off of the sago. It's kind of funny that the Paleos are against white rice and flour because the are processed white foods. But look at these HGs that are going to extreme measures to obtain processed white starches. Same thing with the tribes in the Amazon and manioc. What happened to the HGs eating meat, leaves, & berries?!
sheila , this is very difficult ( but not impossible to explain. I have 2 big articles on it which i will share this coming week. it has to do with how the set point works and how starvation response works in the body in the case of anorexia and obesity. i will point them out
As far as what you were asking about gym motivation, I think 14 to 30 days is ample rest period for most to rest up before embarking on a rarrfish healing protocol. i think if you focus on meditation, stress reduction and enjoying life having fun etc then the urge to work out will come. If it is a big fight to hit the gym then that would be the same as forcefeeding yourself 15 Krispy kremes after eating to appetite at a buffet. Especially if you feel crappy after and still need to muster up the gusto after the first workout. I feel full of life on my way to the gym i do not have to muster up any motivation.
before i embarked on my "diet" I waited till my weight "set" and the weird craving went away then spent 2 weeks chillin' having fun and not answering my phone giving my self huge huge doses of fukitol. sleeping like hibernation, lots of hot tubs and social activity. day after starting my diet I was eager to hit the gym.
Jt, interesting , in what i have seen aside from strict dietary choices the increased meal frequency has the effect of faster fat increases. for instance breakfast affects your sensitivity to insulin at lunch.
I know every time i tested fat loss I increased meal frequency to gain. Keep in mind in either case the demand for fat mass needs to be there first.
for someone counting calories spreading it out maybe a "lesser evil ". Fasting on the other hand is quite handy in reversing alot of the hurdles to weight loss.
it is possible to increase muscle mass with both high volume and low volume exercise depending on how it is done.
Chief:
Thank you for the encouragement. I really appreciate it. The "lazy" cycle seems to be self-perpetuating, and my main problem may be the stress of shopping and cooking. Between that and appetite fatigue it's a challenge. Most of the battle with starting RRARF for me seems to be obtaining and preparing the food to do the program with, and keeping it varied enough so I don't get appetite fatigue like I did going primal.
Also, downloaded the 180 Collection today and am really psyched about that. It really does seem revolutionary. Thanks a lot Matt for putting all this effort in, as always — and I do think it's important to acknowledge that. Wasn't Broda Barnes largely unrecognized and unacknowledged? Always helps, I think, to know firsthand that what you're doing is making a difference. Round of applause :D
Undertow:
You've probably heard this a million times, and I almost want to ask "why didn't it work for you?" under the assumption that you've already tried it, but —
— have you tried brewing your own kefir, or making viili, or anything like that?
Also, I predict that you'll see positive results from exercising. I don't know what your daily activity level is like but taking long walks or doing some light whole body exercises frequently might help.
And maybe it's a stretch, but looking at the physiques of the people in that link you shared, maybe doing whole body strengthening, such as gained from pull ups and chin ups, push ups, and flat-footed squats (overhead squats have been my favorite lately – I just use a stick instead of a bar with weights)…maybe that would help, in the sense of creating more of a need for your body to assimilate more nutrients.
In other words, if your body's range of motion is increased and you start strengthening tendons and ligaments and muscles in new positions they might not be used to at all, there might be more of a "reason" for your body to assimilate more of what you're eating.
It sounds pretty far-fetched to me (in terms of making any significant difference) but even if the effects would be minimal I still think it's worth considering.
I too had a lot of antibiotics and tons and tons of sugar growing up and through adolescence, and though I've changed that, I'm still a computer junkie. Working on my shoulder mobility and using my makeshift squat toilet daily helps a lot. Come summer I hope to be walking around barefoot a whole lot too — mostly because I really enjoy it a lot, even though starting to do that had a lot to do with trying to rehabilitate my knees.
I kind of went on a tangent here but figuring health is a holistic thing, anything beneficial you do for any aspect of your health/body seems like it could only help the rest of you out, even if it's only a little bit.
Probiotics can probably help a lot, and I'm probably becoming a poster child for homemade kefir (which is fine, really — those little guys are awesome), but thinking of indirect approaches like exercise may be a good idea.
In other words, working on things that you wouldn't suspect are the problem may end up contributing significantly to the solution of that problem. Just a thought.
Jib,
It is good that you are trying to heal using natural means, but diet is only part of the equation. Neurotransmitters, hormones, and pathogens also need to be evaluated as well. There is no reason to believe that diet is the cause or cure of every problem.
Chief,
The Sumos skip breakfast and only eat twice a day because this allows them to consume more calories. They also train on an empty stomach and eat after. This is hiw to get a huge appetite. Frequent feedings can be a problem for people when they try to gain weight because they never get really hungry. Every fat person I have ever known personally skipped breakfast and ate big in the evening. All of the lean muscular people with well developed physiques that I have know eat frequently, and I have known quite a few.
Jib, Thanks for the response. I have tried fermented foods, kefir, raw milk, etc, and even now I don't really know if the pro-biotic supps are helping, digestion does seem to be better the few weeks starting them… maybe it's all the good starch in the beans feeding them.
Looking forward to getting back to lifting, squats, deads, overhead, is what I like, so will implement some style of MET with that. I have watched the 5 day Abel videos, so will incorporate some of those ideas as well.
JT,
I agree completely. And I do think it's important to keep that in mind. "Man does not live on bread alone."
I think of it a lot like setting up a guitar. Every little thing affects it, and even if you think one adjustment won't make a difference — trust me, when you make enough, they all add up and it makes a HUGE difference.
My diet definitely needs a lot of work; even though it isn't the only key to the solution, I definitely know it's a part of it, and in focusing on healing that part I can then move onto the others. It's a whole lot to 'digest' (no pun intended…okay yeah it was intended) and I'm just trying to take things one step at a time.
I actually think oil pulling is good and have been doing that every morning for a while. Since dropping out of college mostly because of psychological problems a couple years ago I've been extremely isolated — that's definitely a part of the equation too. I'm really big on spirituality and behavioral therapy (if you'd call it that)…or meditation, if you'd call it that. I actually don't know what it's called or how to explain it. Hopefully someone knows what I mean :p
As for medication, I'm open to that for sure — but I'm very skeptical, in terms of neurotransmitters, of drugs like atypical antipsychotics / antidepressants / etc. I don't write them off. I just have a lot of trauma associated with those things starting when I was probably 13.
There's a book, Depression Free for Life, which I never finished (accidentally left it over a friend's house before he moved out of state), but it talks a lot about amino acids in relation to depression. It covers a whole spectrum of dietary recommendations but a lot of the focus is on supplementation and apparently the guy's had a lot of success with that.
I don't doubt it at all, either.
But yeah, I don't need to get so defensive. You made a good point. For now I'm focusing on the dietary aspect before I move on to other things, just taking one thing at a time so I don't get overwhelmed. Forgetting about anything else that could help would be a mistake, though — thanks for the advice; I definitely think it's a good thing to have an open mind.
undertow:
I had a feeling you'd say that.
Hopefully everyone here will keep on brainstorming and we'll discover more solutions. Matt's ideas about resistant starch and gut flora — 'feed them, and they will come' — seems to be very sound. And culturing with kefir grains for so long it only makes sense; they need milk to thrive; it would make sense that our native gut flora would need some sort of sustenance to thrive on. I remember reading about short chain fatty acids in green bananas contributing to gut flora health and though I don't know what to make of that the point still gets across.
As far as spirituality goes, sometimes things are simply beyond our control. One thing I'm working on is coming to terms with grief — just grieving the loss of something that will never come back. I think it's good to stay optimistic and to do all we can to heal, and to have confidence that there IS a way, but at the same time, we all know loss and I think it's healthy to be able to accept it.
Difficult, but healthy, and also liberating.
Anyway, I'm saying this because I can see you're doing everything you can think of, and realizing that I don't know what to say leaves me with nothing but sympathy. That friggin sucks, man. I think if you keep at it you'll be able to work through this but my heart goes out to you, and congratulations by the way for doing all you have so far.
I think a lot of people have so many problems they're just "waiting for the shoe to drop" and forgetting to appreciate how far they've come already. My health is far from ideal, both psychologically and physically, but I am definitely a hell of a lot better than the absolute wreck I was just a year ago.
Being kind to ourselves with our thoughts is just as important as being kind to ourselves with our diet and everything else we do with our bodies. Nothing revolutionary there but definitely easy (at least for me) to forget.
I'll get angry at my body for not working like I want it to and I think that only contributes to it not working like I want it to. Kind of like screaming at a child and intimidating them — not a good idea. Love and support is the way to go. I don't enjoy acid reflux, for example, but it never did me any good to get pissed off at it while it was happening. Kind of like getting pissed off that you broke your hand when you punched the tree, so you get so frustrated that you kick it and break your foot.
And then you just look like that guy from the "Oxygen Debt" post and blow up like a cantaloupe in a microwave.
JT,
Thanks for the advice. I don't keep track of calories, but would guess I usually eat between 3000-4000 per day. Not superhuman by any means, but by volume anyways I eat way more than anyone I know, and certainly put everyone I sat with at the last two Weston Price conferences to shame, if that means anything. I never eat to the point of nausea, though, nor does it seem to me like the attainment of a healthy weight should require that.
Funny you mention (what I've heard frequently) that milk can be constipating, because that is one thing that actually seems to help keep my bowels moving (I was even regular on the no-fiber milk diet). Truly, I'm a living counterexample to just about every orthodox opinion on health there is! I know you are big on enlisting the help of doctors, but I've been to allopaths, naturopaths, a nutritionist, and an acupuncturist, and I get the same look of idiotic disbelief from all of them when I tell them I don't exercise, go through a pound of butter every five days, eat lots of starch and fiber without shitting, and struggle to keep weight on. None have been very helpful–and ditto the paleo blogs on this point–because their minds turn off when they encounter people whose experience refutes every pillar of their shallow pet theories on weight gain.
Anyways, enough ranting. Glad to see the 180 blog finally moving away from all the weight loss talk. Those folks have a billion resources at their disposal, but there is very little good information out there for those of us on the other side.
undertow,
Thanks for your reply. I had a mouthful of SAD and antibiotics growing up as well. No surprises there.
I ate a lot of semi-fermented beans two weeks ago and my bowels did seem better than usual. It's hard to know what to credit for the improvement, though, as I also introduced a bunch of gelatin, more kefir, and raw greens at the same time, too. Anyways, I'll try some more beans again as I've been back to my usual plateau again this week (albeit with less gelatin, kefir, and raw greens as well, so again, who knows what's responsible), and thanks for the probiotic recommendation. I don't like supplements either, but I've been wondering whether there's maybe no other way out but through them.
Chief–I'm also curious about your assertion that eating more frequently leads to fat gains. Everything that I've read and that makes sense to me says that 'little and often' raises metabolism and discourages fat storage. However, although I lost the most weight in my worst days eating relatively frequently (albeit 200 calories spread over a whole day), I was also eating frequently when I did the Aajonus nightmare and gained the most weight I've ever eaten (horrible amounts of fatty food, including butter, which I loathe, washed down with tons of honey for palatability). So my own experience is ambiguous on this (although my metab. was probably the highest it's been during that latter experiment until I injured my back).
Another thought, on the constipation/diarrhea issue (pun not intended): headed down to my lowest weight, I was horrendously constipated (no surprise there). But when I was doing the Aajonus nightmare and gaining weight, I was _loose_ to the point of diarrhea the whole time I was gaining weight, with the exception of one week when I tried raw cow's milk (yuck) instead of goat milk.
This experience leaves me less ready to buy into thinking that constipation=weight gain and diarrhea=weight loss necessarily.
uhhh I was doing so well but my bloating, asthma, and stomach/sternum pain has come back since I had mexican food last night. Help! I feel like I'm going to be trapped in this restrictive diet forever… I don't mind it day-to-day but I'm in college and I want to be able to go to dining halls or restaurants with friends and not fear the consequences :(
JT, I have seen many of the physique enthusiast you spoke about as well. i have yet to see any that was not a food nazi eating one baked potato or one cup of rice 2 pieces of broccoli and one 7 oz chicken breast with 1/8 of a teaspoon of olive oil for "flavor" as a religion. Occasionally substituting with a steak "for good behavior" when they had a really good workout and maybe going back to the gym to hit the treadmill after feeling guilty about smelling a Cin-a-bun in the mall as they walked by.
seeing as many people skip breakfast I don't think it is really a factor. I think most people that are fat and have no desire to eat breakfast most likely ate really late the night before or just have some other factor causing them to not eat breakfast. sort of like people thinking buffets cause people to become fat instead the truth that buffets attract fat people. Not eating breakfast does not cause someone to become fat it is simply a correlation. Like women and shoes, buying large amounts of shoes does not mean you will grow boobs.
Mike Jones
This week coming I am planning on adding in lots of beans, probably try and make them the main source of carbs, too see what happens. This will displace oats, rice, taters, etc..
I plan on taking the pro-biotics til the end of Feb, then get off them, and see if there is any difference.
Jib, that was an awesome post! Thanks for that. True, sometimes it is just hard to think positive all the time. I too am in better shape mentally and physically then I have ever been, but there is still so far to go. Happy to be on a better path then I was a year or two ago as well!
matt,you've said that body temps should be at least 97.8.what is the highest you've been able to consistently get your temps’the adrenal type supposedly has a body temp around "98.8" according to henry bieler.do you think it's possible to get to this level and have you accomplished this yourself?if not,how high do you think one should shoot for optimally as the end goal,not minimally?
JT, as far as Sumos I have something i wrote bout them not too long ago I attribute their fat mass to a few things
1.) they have alot of muscle mass and a certain amount of fat is needed to maintain that naturally
they have the largest of all athletes.
2.) they sleep right after they eat
3.) they do endurance type exercise working out for 2 hours at a time at minimum. This is good for fat gain its more stressful as you get fatter
4.) their is a whole Hierarchy to the sumo culture and this adds to over stress and weight gain
5.) they force-feed themselves much like your burrito spewing companion
alot of people use them as an example to not skip breakfast but I have not found it to be a big factor especially when you compare it to these 5
Ela,
it is not that one meal frequency or another will cause you to eat more calories. the demand for fat must be there first for it to occur when eating to appetite. i feel that there are benefits to eating one large meal a day and have found none for eating all day. It's not that eating once a day will have you eating less it simply helps with body function which in turn helps to maintain proper weight by "not being broken"
if plowing through food is the magic of rarrf then why eat mini meals 6 times a day ?
I've been lurking for a little while, and just recently I've been going with rrarf, and I figure I'd post my findings so far.
History: Most of my life I couldn't have been happier and healthier. Over the last 5-10 years, however (I'm in my late 30s), I've gotten the classic hypo symptoms. I've been cold (especially in the hands/feet), lethargic, constipated, and moody. Definite "brain fog", which is awfully annoying at work. When in a hypo state, I seem to tend towards adrenaline dominance (high blood pressure & pulse rate, nervous). A little less energy, maybe, I could pass off as just getting older. But I've never been a moody or nervous person, and I just can't accept that it's "normal" to develop it.
During most of this time, I've been paleo and/or low-carb, occasionally zero-carb or doing intermittent fasting, with varying degress of supplementation, etc. It doesn't work all that well for me. Interpreted in the 180 way, it may well be that I cannot eat enough calories on low carb diets.
I've been reading stuff from the thyroid/adrenal angle more recently. Ray Peat, Mark Starr, James Wilson. Ancel Keys' Minnesota Experiment was a fascinating read, which basically says that calories alone are king to recovery.
So I started overfeeding about 2 weeks ago. I've been avoiding fructose and most seed oils for a while now, and eating WAPF friendly foods (coconut oil, pastured butter, grass-fed beef, etc). But the carb refeeding just started 2 weeks ago. My guess is that I've eaten between 3500 – 4500 calories per day, which for me has been slightly beyond appetite.
I've noticed temperature fluctuations (aux temp has jumped around from 95.7 to 98.0 and back, seemingly randomly). My hands/feet generally feel warmer, but occasionally I still feel cold. My fasting blood glucose has been from 90 – 105, and around 115-130 1-2 hours postprandial to carb-heavy meals (e.g. 3 potatoes).
I've been sleeping much better, probably from a reduction in adrenaline, but I don't yet feel much more energetic during the day. I generally do feel less "wired", but it still comes and goes. I have a dramatically reduced craving for coffee and fruit drinks at work.
Others symptoms are still around, such as constipation, itchy skin, and occasional headaches. Their frequency may be slightly reduced, but that might just be observation bias at this point.
I realize that 2 weeks is early days, so I'll keep at it for a while and report back in.
JT,
I skip breakfast often… and i am skinny!!! i have to agree with Chief.
troy
CHIEF-
I look forward to more in depth explanation on your blog.
JT-
Can I ask you, why you are on this blog? I mean, if your certain that you know what's working for you and you don't believe in Matt's solution. Why waste your time?
Just so you know, this is not supposed to come off as negative, I welcome all opinions. I am only wondering..
;-)
ELA-
"This experience leaves me less ready to buy into thinking that constipation=weight gain and diarrhea=weight loss necessarily."
-Count me in! I find this whole situation a bit "shitty" too.
Just an update from a recovering paleotard/orthorexic/hypocaloric. I have noticed for the first time in ages that my hands are a nice pale soft white and pink rather than hard anorexia yellow. They feel and look so good! And I love my starches, fruits and the occasional wheat product when I feel like it. Looking at Nikoley's food pics for example is soooooo unappealing to my tastes. Cheers.
just ate my first bowl of whole oat groats…and now I have oat bloat! Seriously look 5 months preggers! The only other time I've swelled up like this is after eating a Lara bar (gag). I am not coming off any diet other than high-sugar SAD, though the sugar has been 98% reduced during the last 5 weeks.
Any tips for reducing oat bloat? ACV or enzymes? Eat rice instead?
Jib,
Good luck man! It sounds like you are going through a rough time right now, and I hope you find what works for you. My advice is to find someone that can work with you in person, because the self isolation could be more unhealthy than anything else. Even if i was going the spiritual route instead of psychiatric, I would at least try to find someone who had reached a high level of mastery to work with me. Just keep an eye out for all the fake gurus.
Mike Jones,
Sounds like you should start keeping track of your calories for a while so you can see how much you are really eating. People usually have no idea how much they really eat. I have seen lots of scrawny people who think they eat big, but when it is evaluated it is not much at all. Same thing with really fat people, they almost always underestimate how much they eat. Sometimes we have to push ourselves and be disciplined if we want to change ourselves. A scrawny guy may have to eat more than he wants, and a fat person may have to eat less.
Why is your food selection so limited if gaining is your goal? Why do you keep eating the same thing if you are staying staying skinny and constipated?
Chief,
No need for complex explanations. Their fat mass can be contributed to 1 thing: they consume more calories than they burn! None of those things that you mentioned would matter if they didn't eat so much.
Frequent meals don't speed up metabolism like a lot of the health nuts think. The only reason that meal frequency matters for the Sumos is because less frequent meals allow them to have a bigger appetite and consume more food.
Troy,
It doesn't matter if you skip breakfast or not. It matters how much you eat over a long period of days, weeks, and months. The reason this could be bad for some big people with really large appetites is that this strategy can make them even hungrier and cause them to binge later in the day. And this is exactly what every really fat person I have known does. If you are already skinny, you will stay skinny if you skip breakfast.
Sheila,
Like i have stated a million times, if Matt asks me to stop, i will NEVER post on his blog again.
Matt's opinions have changed frequently since I have been on here, and this is good because it shows he is at least open minded. Sometimes he agrees with me and sometimes he doesn't. i agree with his RRARF strategy for short periods of time like he promotes. It is only a problem when his followers misinterpret his work and overfeed and remain sedentary for long periods of time. Do you know of anyone who has done this?
Matt and i think a lot alike. Most importantly, we are both against all of the orthorexia out there hurting people.
JT,
while it is true that calories are needed to create fat and a lack thereof to reduce fat mass, I don't see the human body making a greater demand for calories with one meal as opposed to 3 4 5 6 or whatever. I think the calories balance out even if it is over multiple days. I do not seek to dispute fat has calories and needs this energy to exist. I only wish to show people the reason why people consume more calories than they need and it IS reversible.
If someone is set up to become fat then it will seem like they are eating more because it is one meal but in reality they would gain that fat no matter what meal frequency they chose. At the same time choosing a meal frequency of once per day, over a period of time can help them recover for a myriad of reasons both phycological and physiological.
I have noticed one phenomenon, Im not sure if i am misinterpreting something but it would seem, one meal post workout allows me to eat more if fasted that day. I attribute this to the body wanting to build muscle and needing calories to do so over the next few days and if i do not feed it. It just gives up and goes to plan b which equals less muscle.
I don't know if someone with a different meal frequency would progressively eat a little more each day and not notice and I only notice because i eat this way. i do know that if I wait a few hours appetite is greatly reduced and if i go ahead and eat what is demanded of me i see no fat gain. I think multiple meal eating can work with weight management but it requires a lot more strict discipline and structure which most people do not posses.
Chief, do you think one could reap some benefits from just doing a reduced eating window? For me it's not practical to do one meal a day for social reasons but I am feeling ready to do like 16 off/ 8 on a la Martin Berkhan. then I could just do a late lunch when it was a good time for me, then dinner after all my classes/activities are done for the day. I'm only going to go through with it if my body seems comfortable with it, but I've been iffy about breakfast recently
wheezy,
in my daily life I have to meet with people for business reasons and I just eat a salad with very little dressing or none at all I don't see this as really eating and I dont think the body sees 2 handfuls of raw veggies as eating either ..lol
People respect that you maybe watching your weight and as long as your shovelling something in they wont report you to the other body snatchers for being a weirdo. one thing i do when I don't want to pig out as a guest is eat before i go.
I did meet one guy for breakfast once that It thought was odd when he suggested it I later found out he just was addicted to bacon. if you have to meet daily then I would move your supper closer to lunch.
There is some benefit no doubt but In my opinion 8 is not enough of a change for the average person doing little in the way of exercise to see amazing results. I suspect he gets alot of results from careful attention to diet and dedicated workouts. I believe he does a large post workout meal as well. I have never been able to get much information one way or another on his site as far as what he does. Oddly I have gotten more from comments elsewhere as to what he does. most of the scientific research I have found point to 10 to 20 hour period having the largest changes and 24 hours is where it seems to peak for the bulk of the physiological stuff.
shooting for 3 – 6 hour eating span would be a better goal while still doable in your case. The thing to keep in mind when doing this is to not force it and eat when you are hungry it needs to progress over a period of time to a shorter window. Meaning dont quit lunch and breakfast cold turkey make them a little smaller. The other thing is to really get in touch with how much your body needs. If you do not eat enough within the window to average out for a day it will simply make you hungry later n defeat the purpose. …
Gotcha. I think I'm going to just try to make it a natural progression.. maybe doing a slow transition to warrior-type diet and then see how my body will take to a 5ish hour eating window. Thanks!
JT,
Thanks. I did track my calorie intake a few times when I first switched to eating whole foods (and ate waaaay smaller meals than I do now) and even then I seem to remember approaching 3000 calories a day.
At any rate, my intuition at this point is that I eat plenty of calories but am not gaining weight for lack of optimal digestion, and to a lesser extent, exercise and sun exposure. I think I will get farther by fixing my constipation (and it is much improved over two years ago, mind you, just far from perfect) than by counting and increasing my calories even further. It is true that if I don't eat much, my bowels basically stop, but this also happens whenever I really seriously "over-over-eat" as well. What I mean is, from experience, eating 1.5-2 times my normal extra-large volume of food actually aggravates the constipation the same as eating 1/2 my normal extra-large volume of food. I have not found hyper-overfeeding to be at all helpful here, so why count calories if the point of that is to say, "Look! You could be eating even more calories!" when I of course know that (without counting calories) and have tried it, but it actually seems to make the problem worse?
In answer to your questions, I'm not sure why you consider my food selection limited, or where you got the impression that I keep eating the same things over and over. I said I have done RRARF for 8 months, but that doesn't mean I've eaten the same foods for 8 months. The actual food on my plate varies significantly from month to month depending on what's in season where I live and on whatever my current experimental aims are. My meals are totally different now than in the summer, for example, but they're all RRARF. I eat meat, dairy, eggs, fish, fruits, vegetables, grains, legumes, and use salt, herbs, and various fats. There is nothing I restrict except processed foods.
If your question is, why do I limit myself to whole foods only?, then the answer is: because eating unlimited processed foods (entire large pizzas for dinner, for example) is what caused me to be underweight with shitty digestion in the first place. (I am not the sort of skinny person who has ever been "afraid" of eating anything, or of eating a lot–quite the opposite.) And in fact, I gorged on pasta and cake and ice cream a few times in the last several months (at family dinners and a surprise birthday party thrown for me where I had no other choice–not because I had any desire or temptation whatsoever to eat those foods on my own) and every time I paid the price with a pound or two lost, three or four times my normal transit time, and dry, painful stools when that garbage finally left my body. So no doubt I will go on "limiting" myself to whole foods!
JT-
So what your saying is that your not totally sure you know it all?
You are on this blog to learn, like the rest of us?
Yes, I do know a person who has taken RRARF literally -Undertow, and he has had good improvements. He has been overeating and not exercising for 16 months.
Hey all
I am late to this party but just wanted to say
HAPPY BIRTHDAY YA BASTARD!
to Mattie.
Love your oldest fan
deb xoxo
shiela .. he cant possibly be overeating … only justenougheating …lol
CHIEF-
I know, I know.. Just trying to make a point ;-P
Mike Jones
Sound like were are on a similar path, when I eat processed shit, takes me about a day to feel normal. Just finished my superbowl chowdown at a friends, nice mountain of semi whole foods and pure processed crap, I am sure digestion tomorrow will be blown for the the day. It was worth the laughs, memories, and chilling with best friends though and tasted great!!
Sheila and Chief, no puking tonight, so it was just enough! 3rd gorging of the day! Or 3rd 'packer'ing of the day! But really I don't follow football at all, was there for the food and friends.
UNDERTOW-
Hey, what can I say? Your a slender man with a large appetite ;-P
Good you enjoyed the the day, that's all that matters ;-)
Speaking of pregnancy, is the pill a total negative in terms of good health? I can't imagine it's all that beneficial for one, but i'd hate to get knocked up when I don't want to. Can you still have good health and be on the pill or what alternatives/measures should one take.
I so wish I would have known a lot of this before I had children. I have never had issues with conceiving (I got preggo three times in 2 years)I was coming off a low calorie, whole foods diet with the first baby. She was born with Trisomy 9- we had a difficult pregnancy and emergency c-section with her. Though I was eating lots, she was not receiving it due to only having 1 vessel in the umbilical cord.
I conceived her sister three months post pregnancy, and though it was stressful, I ate whatever, and this baby was in amazing health and the perfect birthweight. She has a wide jaw as well, with nicely formed teeth etc. I began to learn more about eating for pregnancy, and while I did have a miscarriage after her, I produced two more very healthy baby girls later.
I'm sure part of the 1st baby's problem was a lack of nutrients to work with. Not to mention the effects all that stress had on me, gaining a whopping 60lbs and NEVER lost it!!!
Mike jones,
That is not many calories at all for someone as tall as you. I have seen so many skinny guys that think they eat big, but they really don't. If I was you I would get checked out by a doc and make sure I didn't have any disorder. I would also find an Ayurvedic doctor to help me balance out my condition. What you describe sounds a lot like a Vata disorder: tall, very skinny, constipated with dry and hard stools. I would eat lots of ghee with my food to help me decrease Vata, gain size, and lubricate my bowels. Inwould be careful with the milk, but if you are going to be consuming lots of milk, I suggest you learned how to take it correctly like they recommend in Ayurveda, they experts when it comes to milk.
Also, how do you know that eating processed foods is what caused you to have these problems? I used to believe diet is what caused everything too, but I have moved on from that belief.
Sheila,
Are you asking me if that is what I stated in my previous comment ?
Undertow,
Will you please tell us all of the great things that have happened so far?
JT,
Improvements are in these:
body comp
mood
digestion
sleep/fatigue
acne
wound healing
Of course these are not 100% healed or where I would like them all to be, but are much better off then I was on SAD. So have been steadily improving or the last 16 months. Exercise is the next addition, so I will see where that gets me.
JT,
How many calories would you consider appropriate for someone my height (with a low level of physical activity)?
Note that I said I was approaching 3000/day the last time I tracked them, which was before starting RRARF, when my meals were a lot smaller than they are now. So I should be easily over 3000/day at present, in case that was unclear.
Also, I don't have dry stools. When I ate an almost all processed diet, I had dry stools. Since switching to whole foods, my stools have been consistently well lubricated. The only exceptions to this have been the few aforementioned cases where I had to eat processed foods (with no other significant changes to my routine). That is one reason I blame processed foods. There are others, but I won't list them, because I'm not interested in spending time "proving" this to anyone. I have been well enough convinced through my research and experience. I know food is not the only determinant of health, and I am aware of the many epistemological pitfalls of concluding just about anything in life, but I'm a very careful thinker and observer, trained in deductive and inductive blah blah blah, and anyways, though I remain open to the possibility that I could be partly or even wholly wrong, I feel pretty confident about this one. :)
Also, let me be clear that I've never said processed foods have caused all my problems, or that they have been the only cause of my problems.
However, I will say that eliminating them has been very good for my health.
I remember reading that being underweight is more associated with ill health than being overweight (at least according to mainstream medicine's definitions of "overweight"). Which makes me wonder if the underweight guys don't have a more screwed up endocrine system than fat guys like me. After all, my body thinks it is in a state of starvation and is reacting as it should: lowering my metabolism and storing fat. If your body thinks it's starving and it's NOT storing fat as it should, then more is wrong with you than just a low metabolism.
JT-
Does is really matter?
I am asking because you didn't really answer my prior question and it is still unclear to me, exactly why you are on here?
I can't imagine you are just trying to be the good Samaritan, saving everyone from from prolonged RRARFing (surley Undertow does not need any intervention as he is doing fine)
Maybe you are unsure yourself, as to why you are here and maybe that's exactly the reason why you are on here, because you are unsure.
Sheila,
Yes it does matter, because I was wondering if you are being honest in your questions, or just starting conflict. But, yes I am here to learn. Matt and I agree on most things too, and I think his program is good as long as people follow it as he describes.
JT, I imagine I've been around as long as Undertow.
I eat only to appetite. I don't overfeed. I try to stick to whole foods, but I'm not perfect. I've tried to eliminate all sugar and fructose with limited success. Basically, I've decided to quit worrying about sugar and white flour and try to concentrate on eating more other things. When I first started I was coming from low-fat dieting for seven years. I ate fat like crazy. I've backed off since since I don't crave it like I did. Still I appreciate fat in that it can keep you satiated and with stable energy like nothing else. Mostly I eat meat, potatoes and veg. Sometimes I eat more rice, oats, corn instead of potatoes. I eat what is in season as much as possible. I'm never bored with food but I'm not obsessed with it either.
The goods:
–Elimination of allergy symptoms, off allergy meds
–improved digestion, no longer need over the counter meds to control cycle of constipation/loose stools
measurable improvement in gum disease
that required lots of flossing, and a prescription mouthwash. Now I floss when I have something in my teeth. They don't hurt or bleed anymore.
–Improvement in skin and scalp condition that previously required prescription meds
–Have had a grand total of one urinary tract infection. I used to have them chronically. (Four-five per year). Have eliminated supplements that I used to take to keep them under control.
These are just the conditions for which I was taking medication on regular basis. I've also had few colds, no sinus infections (I used to get several a year), better sleep and more stable moods.
Weight: Have gained twenty pounds, or one dress size. Considering that when I lost twenty pounds in the past, I went down three dress sizes, I think this shows that a fair portion of the weight I've gained has been lean tissue. I will not deny that I've gained fat. The increase in weight has caused some other issues such as flair-up of plantar fascitis that was an old running injury. I've been able to keep that mostly under control by changing some behaviors and footwear.
Exercise has been mostly for relaxation and enjoyment. I play with my kid at the park, go for walks in the woods, etc. I have tried to restart an exercise routine, but just have not been inspired to keep going. Since I value sleep, rest and stress reduction I don't make time in my schedule to get up early and exercise anymore. I think that like Matt, I had to recover from years of equating exercise with competition, not with fun. This year, I'm hoping to focus more on moving my body for fun: dancing, climbing, teaching my kid to swim.
Oh yeah, I used to have clicking and pain in my jaw upon waking. Another thing that RRARF has pwned. The list just goes on!
Mike jones,
If I was in the same situation I would double the amount. I would use plenty of ghee with all of my meals. I would be lifting to put on muscle. I would get tested and work with a professional first.
I would definitely weigh and measure all of my food and keep a log for at least a month. This is necessary, because you will never know for sure unless you do it. Most people are way off on what they think they eat.
Are you drinking a whole gallon of milk a day? This is a common practice for many people trying to bulk. It works for some, but it caused me problems.
That's great Jenny, I'm glad it is working out for you. How are your energy levels, mood, libido, physical performance? What is your height and weight?
A question I have for everyone is what is RRARF? It has to be more than just eating whole foods to appetite, because every WAPF person does this, and most don't exercise either. What makes RRARF different from WAPF? I'm being serious, I don't know.
Hey JT: energy levels are fine. I have a five year old, a husband, a full time job, a blog and maintain lots of friendships online and in the real world. My moods have generally improved. I have always had a quick temper, which is not a good thing with a kid. Temper issues still a problem at certain times of the month. My weight is 175, my height is 5'4.5". By the way, my height has changed, upward and measurably. I had a check up at the doctor last week and my height was about a half an inch more than was in my file. The nurse triple checked this. I'm not sure how this happened at age 40, but my theory is that increasing bone mass all over by tiny amounts, added up to a real difference. This is very encouraging since osteoporosis is a real problem in the women in my family. My mom has lost a couple of inches in the past ten years, despite sucking down the calcium supplements like a fiend.
Libido is about the same as ever. That was never an issue for me though, except in the first year after having a kid. New parents exhaustion=excellent birth control.
JT-
Like I stated in my first comment:
"Just so you know, this is not supposed to come off as negative, I welcome all opinions. I am only wondering..
;-)"
I even included a smiley so you wouldn't get it the wrong way. Why you feel this as an attack or trying to start a conflict, I don't know? Maybe you should ask yourself that.
When I ask questions it is only to learn -I love to learn!
I assumed you were on here for that same reason but I couldn't be sure, that's why I asked.
You just confirmed it. You just have a different way of approaching things, instead of asking "why" you challenge the why and bring contradictions to why it is NOT possible.
That is just an other way of learning.
I don't think there is a single WAPF anything that talks about meal size or portions. If anything, I've seen the WAPF people going low carb and start counting calories lately. There is a real starchphobia out there. Also WAPF emphasizes nutritional trivia like making your own yogurt, soaking grains, fermenting veggies, brewing kombucha and sourcing your meat from grass-fed operations. Read nourishing traditions, the closest thing to official manual and you'll see that 90 percent of it is devoted to this trivia. RRARF pretty much ignores these things in favor of eating whole foods to appetite, balancing macronutrients as the body craves. I found Matt thanks to WAPF, though and I still enjoy fermented veggies, grass fed meat and eggs, etc. I think their work on milk has made a hugely positive improvement in my health. But I certainly prefer Matt's keep it simple stupid approach.
I also have to throw this out here to Matt, that his 180 kitchen ebook is the bomb, JT. If you want to know what eating RRARF is all about, read that. Just as a comparison to WAPF, it's about a quarter of the length of Nourishing Traditions and bout 10 times more useful. I love the WAPF foodie blogs, but about half the time I make a recipe from them, I find it was a hugely time consuming effort. That has never, ever been an issue with 180 kitchen. I think if you don't have any special health problems like diabetes or digestion problems, you could get by just downloading the free ebook and the kitchen book.
JT, I think it's kind of ironic that on one hand you are recommending ghee to people and on the other hand you are saying that diet can't fix everything. The first thing you make is a diet-based recommendation! My philosophy is not diet fixes everything, but try diet first!
And I know you think supplements are necessary in "extreme" cases. Fine, but without a good foundation of a whole foods diet, supplements do squat. I've experienced that so many times in my own personal health and the health of my family that I can't even count it up.
Well said Jenny, well said! I totally agree.
Jenny,
The reason I was saying diet isn't everything is because I think people should get checked out by a medical professional first to make sure nothing serious is wrong. What if he had something like a pituitary tumor that was affecting hormones and making it impossible to gain weight, or parasites in his gut. In this case diet wouldn't make a difference.
I was saying what I would do in his situation, so I recommended ghee for him based on his description of his issues, and his desired results. It's also a healthy food that is low volume and high calories. I would have suggested lots of liquid calories and proccessed foods but i kmow he wouldnt have considered that because he views it as unhealthy. He wants to gain weight and to do this he needs to eat more calories, it's simple. He might need medications to fix his problems completely, but he will need to get tested to find out.
Sheila,
I'm glad to hear we are here for the same reasons. You have a lot of experience in these areas and I am eager to learn more about your thoughts on these issues.
Just to be clear, I am not attacking RRARF. I agree with Matts version of eating whole foods to appetite and resting for short periods of time as a way to sort of hit the rest button.
What I'm interested in is seeing how people are interpreting and applying this for themselves? Why do they view it as a long term diet when Matt says it isn't? The comparison to WAPF is not meant to be negative, it is just how I'm interpreting it.
@Anonymous with the Pill question:
Read Taking Charge of Your Fertility. Sympto-thermal fertility tracking is a great way to know when you need to use protection, as well as a way to know if you have healthy cycles. You aren't fertile all the time, only a few days a month. Every woman should be aware of her fertility signs and it isn't hard to learn. DO NOT go on The Pill! Not only does it mess up your hormones, it also greatly increases your risk of breast cancer and completely alters your gut flora, which causes digestive problems, and can ultimately cause all kinds of other problems (allergies, food intollerances…and others. There isn't room to list them all here.)
Before going on The Pill, read Gut and Psychology Syndrome. If you do decide to have a baby at some point you HAVE to have plenty of good gut flora, or your baby will be in for a life of health problems. (The voice of experience here).
To the men that eat loads of food and can't gain weight: maybe you need to cut back your consumption so your body will go into storage mode. If Matt is recommending that people who need to lose weight should eat more to increase metabolism, maybe you should cut back a bit so your metabolism will slow down. And maybe your body is so focused on shoving the food through to make room for the next mega-meal that there isn't time for the nutrients to be properly absorbed. Just a thought.
JT, I do not think matt has ever said the basic premise of rarrf was not long term.
to quote matt from november 17th overfeeding reduces insulin
"When people embark upon RRARF, my program that you can read about in a Free eBook HERE, calories are not monitored. Rather, one is asked to eat at least to the satisfaction of the natural appetite and perhaps a little BEYOND appetite. I don’t say to force feed, but explicitly say to ?eat as much as you can ENJOY.
For many, this may equate to overfeeding. For others, maybe not."
the part where he says eating to their "natural appetite " sums up what I have been doing for years.
I tell everyone I advise to avoid force-feeding but most likely they eat way too little. They should do a little exercise but rest is not something they can dodge. so technically speaking I rrarf all the time and advise everyone to do the same.
Some people depending on their case may need to slightly force feed themselves.
i think the part you misunderstand is you believe the human appetite has some sort of defect and one can accidentally go overboard and gain fat. alot of people think that way, thinking that people are fat because they did not "control" themselves. As long as you are not force-feeding this is not the case.
Therefore I believe Rarrf to be a lifelong strategy at least in the sense Eating as much whole foods as possible, obeying your appetite, not being afraid to eat what your body asks for and getting plenty of rest. I see nothing wrong with that scenario.
"What I'm interested in is seeing how people are interpreting and applying this for themselves? Why do they view it as a long term diet when Matt says it isn't? The comparison to WAPF is not meant to be negative, it is just how I'm interpreting it."
For me it's as simple as my temps have not ever gotten into the ideal range. It may be possible that there is more going on than diet can fix, but since RRARF is actually an easy way to live, I'm not sure why I'd want to go back to eating SAD or over-exercising (distance running and lifting weights while lower carb). For sure there have been times when I'm better about my food and rest and those times always line up with improvements in body comp. To me that says, I'm on the right track. Presumably when my temps go into the ideal range for more than a few days a month, my weight set point will drop and I will still be eating to appetite, just eating less. This can take a while. I don't think you can undo a life-time of SAD, and the better part of a decade of dysfunctional eating and exercise in a month or two. At least not for me.
Ditto what Lattebreak, said, plus: condoms! Condoms plus the "rhythm method" (birth control by watching fertility cycles) is highly effective. Rhythm method alone accounts for why Catholic families are notoriously big. No birth control but abstinence is 100% so doubling up is definitely not over kill.
JT-
What do you want to know? Shoot.
Chief,
Yes, Matt has stated that RRARF wasn't long term. In the comment section of his post on New Eating Disorders, Matt stated, "RRARF, which is not an everyday way of living, but a short-term strategy used as medicine.
This is my point, people are not interpreting Matt's writings correctly much of the time.
I never said the human appetite has a defect? But, someone may have an appetite that would cause them to eat until they gain lots of body fat. Some may have an appetite that causes them to only eat enough to be really skinny.
Sheila,
What is your current height & weight and what was it previously? Are you happy with your current state? What is your long term goal?
in the words "way of living" I saw that as more the "sitting on your ass part " of rarrf because he did not say way of eating as well in the same comment he was talking about eating things that may have a negative effect and eating it anyways which during a rrarf thing, that might be part of one's strategy but would not be a life long goal.
with my previous comment in this post explaining my thoughts in eating to appetite, I don't even understand what part of it being an everyday thing you disagree with. could you explain? I see plenty of people around me rrarfing it up and have no ills to tell.
also if you do not see a defect or a flaw in the appetite control mechanism or that it is a willpower issue than why have you spoken out about eating "too much" in the past ?
Chief,
It means all of RRARF, not just the sedentary part. Matt is against diets, that is why RRARF isn't a diet, but a short term strategy like medicine.
Your appetite can cause you to eat too much or too little depending on your goals. If your appetite causes you to eat just the right amount that gives you the body composition you want then it is just right. If you are skinny like Mike and and you wanna get hoooge then you need to eat more calories. If you are fat and want to be skinny then you should eat less calories. You will not get bigger without a calorie surplus and you will not get smaller without a calorie deficit. This is a fact.
I guess we would have to hear it from him exactly what he means. Sure you can eat only fruit like durian rider and be as skinny as a rail. You could eat more or less and see effects but if this demand for bigger or smaller is not made from within first so that the appetite changes instead of you trying to dictate to the appetite the desired goal will be short lived. What your talking is a body image issue
No such forcing is needed to permanently go from fat to normal. Normal for your body is supposed to be which is what most people want. Sure 80 percent wish they could be a skinny runway model but they know that is wishful thinking. Most would be plenty happy with just normal because they know Fat rolls are not normal for anyone. If you are skinny like mike, your body "needs " to "want" to be big first then eat to appetite, digest it all and just like anyone trying to lose with the demand for fat no longer there… eat to appetite and all falls into place.
JT,
It has been my understanding from the beginning that RRARF is a temporary/short-term strategy. However, that strategy is described as eating as much as or more than you could possibly want, as well as taking a break from exercise.
RRARF, as I understand it, DOES NOT refer to simply eating whole foods to appetite, but (again) refers to the combination of eating large amounts of all macronutrients in combination with rest and relaxation.
However, it has never been Matt's recommended strategy to cut calories, ignore appetite or eat less than your body craves. When RRARF is over, you're not supposed to go back to dieting.
I feel like some of that is getting lost in recent discussions with the term RRARF being applied to both the actual strategy of refeed/relax (correct) and the lifestyle recommendation of obeying one's appetite (incorrect).
Orange Sarah,
I agree with your interpretation. Very nicely stated.
Chief,
I disagree, some people body's are programmed to have an appetite that would lead them to have lots of fat. It is a surival advantage in nature when there are times of scarcity. I know you don't believe in the thrifty gene, but watch the epigenetic video for more examples on how this is the case.
JT,
You might be right, but I'm not convinced that I and others like me must necessarily eat more calories in order to gain weight. I have nothing against eating more calories other than the extra time and money it costs, but couldn't a stubbornly underweight person's root problem be malabsorption and not insufficient calorie intake? One could have inadequate gut flora (not hard to imagine where there is a history of antibiotic usage and constipation), or perhaps even parasites as you suggest. After resolving such an issue, one could presumably gain weight eating the same amount of calories as before or perhaps even eating even fewer calories than before, depending on the severity of the original absorption problem. So in the case of at least some underweight folks, their time and money might be better spent on trying out strategies for improving gut flora and killing off parasites rather than on just heaping more calories into a gut that can't efficiently absorb them.
popcorn cooked in coconut oil with grass fed butter
it's whats for dinner
Just wanted to throw that in for fun :)
JT-
What is is about RRARF you don't understand? I really believe your the only one not getting this.
The first and foremost importance of RRARF, is relieving people of chronic dieting by welcoming all macro nutrients. Mosty people come from either a low fat, low carb or just a low calorie diet in general.
RRARF is supposed to make one embrace food again and not be afraid of it. To take away a fear, you have to introduce that fear to your body, just like an acrophobic has to "walk the plank".
It's not normal for the human body to be afraid of food. Food is what we all live for. Without it we would die.
RRARF is meant for rising your temperature, meaning eating whole foods to appetite, satisfaction, stuff your pie hole (to really push your temps in the right direction) or whatever you call it. Including all macros, avoiding stimulants like coffee which can interfere with your appetite and get plenty of rest (remember many people come off an obsessive training regime) giving your adrenals a big well deserved break (if you have adrenal exhaustion/fatigue, your temps wont budge as thyroid and adrenals work together).
RRARF is about re-learning how to listen to your body and give it what it need (just like when you were a child) and not what your "head" (society afflicted) wants.
RRARF is a new way of thinking (or more correctly, the human way of thinking) about food and exercise. It's teaching us that it's not a calories in, calories out math equation that constantly has to go on in our heads, our body takes perfectly care of that if we just start to trust and listen to it.
RRARF teaches us that we can not outsmart out bodies and by trying to do so, we run into problems.
RRARF teaches us first hand/in-your-face-kinda-thing what real food is, what it should taste like and how much out bodies really need.
RRARF is a rehab. RRARF is a guideline book for how to look at diet and exercise, just like when a parent teaches her/his child the do and don't so they can have the best life possible.
I think this is were you got it all wrong – seeing RRARF as only a short term strategy, are truly the ones that has misunderstood the intention. No you are not meant to stuff your pie hole uncomfortably (not listening to your body) and no you are not meant to strap yourself to your bed to avoid exercise (not listening to your body). The reason why it's stated that it is not a long term thing is because in order to change your pattern from listening to your head, to listening to your body, you need to be told that rest and enough food is key. In the beginning of RRARF, most people battle with their mind/body connection until they finally let go and surrender to their body's demand (human way of living) and stop pushing themselves like a soldier. It gives time for reflection of ones outlook on life in regards to what truly is beneficial for one self.
People who go back to their old ways afterwards unfortunately have not learned a thing and the only thing they got out of it was a break.
People, who you say are still "RRARFing" are people who are still not completly healed. Healing takes time and the more you have wrecked yourself in the past, the longer it takes. If you feel you have to force yourself to train every time then don't train (listen to your body). Would you ever go to the gym sick, thinking it would make you better faster? If you feel energetic and every bone in your body feels excited about training, knock yourself out (listen to your body)
One thing is for sure. Eating whole foods witch mother earth has provided, is not a bad choice in trying to improve ones health.
Mike,
The problem is that you aren't eating that much for someone your height. I would definitely run a controlled experiment for at least a month where I measured and weighed my food. I am shorter than you and I would eat at least 6000 calories a day if I was trying to do a serious bulk. If I was eating 6k calories a day for a month that I weighed, measured, and logged and still didn't gain weight then I would suspect that I had other issues. You need to read more about bodybuilders, powerlifters, and sumos to see how much food these people have to eat to gain. Most of these guys would laugh at such small calories for trying to gain. I understand that it is tough for a skinny guy to gain, I think it is more difficult than a fat person to lose fat.
But, I agree that you should get checked out by a medical professional first.
Sheila,
You make some good points, but I agree with Matt. RRARF is meant to be a short term strategy. Matt and I aren't really big fans of diets in general.
what the hell happened to the comments… this post was about fertility and pregnancy and y'all turned it into debating what RARRER-FING or Rarfing or whatever it is or is not.
ITS INDIVIDUAL. it is what you make it… i was looking forward to a fertility talk but again, y'all turned it to weight and food obsession
While we're on the subject, I have a question for you all. This is serious time. No foolin'.
Since getting my body temps up in August of last year I have felt like superman. Eating all I want of whatever and not gaining any weight (or losing any unfortunately). A few weeks ago I got a little bit sick with a few days of fever, cough, headaches, sore eyes. Idk what was wrong, but finally got over it. Last night I started getting the same symptoms that I had before (tonsils hurting when I swallow, throat a little sore). I expected to wake up this morning with a fever, cough, headache etc, but the only thing wrong is my friggin throat feels like I'm trying to swallow an apple down something the size of a grape. I guess it's my tonsils inflamed, but I have no other symptoms. I rarely got sick before bringing my temps up (maybe one cold a year) and now I feel like I'm gettin' gang banged. I hope I'm not one of those people that has to get their tonsils removed because of problems with them. I have a friend that's my age that just had them removed and he said it was pure hell. Anyone have theirs removed? Any ideas wtfc is going on with me throat?
"what the hell happened to the comments… this post was about fertility and pregnancy and y'all turned it into debating what RARRER-FING or Rarfing or whatever it is or is not. "
I know it. It pisses me off when people go off topic. Where's the ring leader?
Jt.
I saw the epigenetic video and I am most likely one of those people predisposed to fat gain but in the presence of unlimited food now, I do not get fat. I don't think it is some advantage for starving hunter gatherers in some imagined scarcity in the past. If that was the case wild animals would be fat as often as they become fat in captivity. Only difference is Cages are stressful.
way back in 76 psychologists showed that if you stress lab rats by pinching their tails repeatedly for weeks on end, they will become severely overweight.
It's not some, everyone that is fat is "programmed" that way. in many cases by their own design. what i'm saying is it is fully reversible and not set in stone.
you need to have the demand for fat such as the lab rats i mentioned for it to occur. I believe there is only a handful of people who have a rare disorder who are doomed genetically to be fat everyone else can be "normal". In my research it is too early to tell if all typically lean people are also able to become fat by this same programming… I have yet to find one who is not though so I suspect they can.
Mike, yes I have seen that scenario with some underweight individuals I would start with gut flora it might end up being a simple fix Do a little resistance exercise to see if you truly cant increase in muscular weight.
Orange Sarah, JT,
I think matt has constantly evolved in his Rarrf thing and has said slightly contradictory things( eat to appetite VS as much as you can perhaps more than you desire) just read the E book and its tough to say as it is even tough to describe rarrf it's still evolving
I went into the bathroom just now, turned the lights off and said Potatoman 5 times. He'll be here soon.
just because there is no mention of babies does not mean it is off topic…. this post is about RRARF and fertility. rarrf is on topic
to add to the baby part Although I can never really know what happened, Im pretty sure me and my ex lost a baby primarily due to her dieting before conception and stressful environment which was only worsened by a lack of nutrition. I think the body sees it as bringing a child into a shitty ( possibly famine) situation either the mother or the child subconsciously or by some type of chemical or hormonal reaction aborts the mission.
Malpazz,
The comments are never on topic. This will only change if matt gets a forum.
Chief,
Wild animals get fat when they are put in a situations where they have more food and less exercise like zoos. IT is no differen than modern humans. No need for more ccomplex theories when the simple explanation is so clear.
JT-
"You make some good points, but I agree with Matt. RRARF is meant to be a short term strategy. Matt and I aren't really big fans of diets in general."
-What do you mean by that statement??
No body is fan of diets, that's why we are on this blog.
You are talking like you didn't understand a thing of what I was saying?!
Geezzz.. You have a head thicker than bricks.
JOHNNY LAWRENCE-
How can you say it pisses you off when people go off-topic when you just posted something off-topic yourself?
JT
its not the too much food not enough exercise that theory is completely bunk. stress is not a complex theory. it's rather simple and obvious when you look around yourself the calories in calories out on the other hand is a little too simple. so simple that obesity would be easy o treat if it was that simple.
since we are talking about zoos ill give you another study
unlimited nutritious food were offered to two groups of monkeys, high status, contented, happy ones and their miserable, stressed out, low status subordinates. All the monkeys ate about the same number of calories of whole foods. However when the switched it up to high fat and sugary junk food pellets in unlimited supply, the high-status monkeys ate about the same calories as previously, but their stressed out counterparts couldn’t stop chomping down and gaining weight.
simply a matter of inadequate exercise and unlimited food? …I think not
oh dear misguided JT. In my experience, Forums are even worse for 'branching'.
The only thing that will stop off topic comments is a microchip in your head that shocks you every time you do it.
Or Matt scolding off topic people, then banning them to Siberia to eat reindeer meat and live in seclusion.
:)
Chief,
I agree that stress can cause people to eat more. I have known many people who self medicate with food when they are depressed. I also have known plenty of people that do the opposite and completely lose their appetite under stress and get really skinny. So yes, I agree that food and emotions are closely related in many people.
Sheila,
No reason for insults. My point is that we don't want to turn RRARF into another diet obsession like Matt has written about all of the different orexias, but use it as a rehab. What and how you eat and exercise should change and flow depending on the current state of your body and what it needs to bring it back into balance.
I think I am going to stop posting because I don't think I am being of much benefit anymore and I have pretty much said everything I had to contribute. I also don't want to be a source of negativity on here by disagreeing with the overall view that most have. It has been fun, and I appreciate all of the great debate we have had. Maybe I will check in some time in the future. Thanks everybody and good luck to all of you!
Sheila,
Sorry, that was my pathetic attempt at humor. I am rarely on topic. More reason we need a forum, for off topic dweebs like me.
Come back JT! Nobody likes me but I don't leave. If everyone always agrees with each other then we are just a bunch of paleo wusses.
Johnny,
I like you. Because, remember, that time when your sensei wanted you to completely destroy Daniel-san, and you looked at him funny, like, "really? he's already in a lot of pain, and we've taught him his lesson and all… and can't you see the majesty of his spirit out there?" Even though your sensei was disgusted with you for being so weak, you showed your implicit disapproval. What a man.
JT! Don't leave us. I know you think we don't love you, but we do. It is good to hear other viewpoints.
But I still stick to my story re: forums and off topic comments.
xo
This is kinda OT but it's very relevant for your blog. Perhaps it will fuel some good vegan/vegetarian debates. Perhaps some people will quit eating fruits and vegetables altogether. Others may become breathenarian. And others will continue to eat both plants and meat.
You might find this book interesting. It sources research on how plants experience fear as they are fully conscious beings, and that they have a brain not of dense matter. Physical brains only manifest in dense matter to beings that have movable appendages or who are physically communicating, however plants are telepathic. Think about that the next time you take a bite out of an apple:
http://www.amazon.com/Ultimate-Reality-Universe-Destiny-Mankind/dp/0979910609/ref=sr_1_1's=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1283133652&sr=1-1
According to Dr. David R. Hawkins apples have the level of consciousness of 500. This is the emotional level of spiritual love. In the same conscious field as the love Martin Luther King Jr. generated in his equality brotherhood movement.
http://www.amazon.com/Power-vs-Force-Determinants-Behavior/dp/0964326116/ref=sr_1_1's=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1283133905&sr=1-1
From the book Our Ultimate Reality:
Plants have feelings. They know when they are about to be hurt or destroyed and do not differ from human Beings or animals in that respect. Plants are intelligent and fully capable of thought, even though they do not have a physically observable brain. The physical brain is not the Mind, it is simply an organic interface of non permanent physical matter between the vibrational level of the human body and the much higher vibrations of inner-self.
The plane of the plant Mind: These planes and all their associated sub-planes contain all those Beings forming the kingdoms of the plant worlds. The fact that plants respond favorably to music is evidence that they possess a Soul.
A series of experiments carried out in 1966 demonstrated conclusively that plants are capable of intelligent thought processes. The research, Cleve Backster, an expert with lie detector equipment, connected a lie detector to a Dracaena plant, also know as a "Dragon tree". He wanted to see how long it would take for the leaves to react when he poured water on the plant's roots. in theory, a plant will increase its conductivity and decrease its resistance after it absorbs water, and the curve recorded on graph paper should have gone upward. But in actuality, the line curved downward. When a lie detector is connected to a human body, the pen reacts differently, tracing a different plot, in accordance with the changes in the person's mood. The reaction of the dragon tree was just likee the undulation of human mood swings. It seemed that is was happy when it "drank" water.
Cleve Backster also wanted to see if the plant would display any other reactions. Backster then focussed on the thought of burning the leaves that were connected to the lie detector. With this thought held in his Mind, and even before he went to fetch a match, a strong curve rapidly appeared on the graph paper.
When he arrived back with the match, he saw that yet another peak had appeared on the curve. The plant had perceived that there was a good chance that it could be burned and exhibited the emotion of fright. If he showed less inclination to burn the plant, the reactions of the plant were not so strong. If he merely pretended to take action to burn the leaves, the plant had almost no reactions whatsoever. The plant was fully capable of distinguishing his true intentions from the false ones.
In a further experiment, Backster decided to test how well a plant could recognize objects and people. He selected six students, blindfolded them and asked them to draw lots. One of the choices was to uproot one of the two plants present for the experiment and destroy it by treading upon it. This person was to carry out this task alone, and none of the other students knew who had drawn the task. By proceeding in this manner, only the remaining plant would know the true identity of the "muderer" of the other plant.
The remaining plant was then connected to a lie detector, and each of the students was asked to walk by it. The plant showed no reactions to the five students who had not been involved with the destruction of the other plant, but when the student who had murdered the other plant walked by, the remaining plant showed an extreme reaction on the lie detector recording. The plant was clearly able to identify the exact person responsible for the destruction of the other fellow plant.
This demonstrates extremely well that plant life, like all life in the universe, is an inseperable aspect of the same infinite Universal Mind of God. Still steeped in the material world and personal Ego, human Beings assume that just because plants do not appear to have a physical brain or animal like characteristics that they are unintelligent or "inanimate". In fact nothing could be further from the truth. The brain is not the Mind. The brain is simply an organic supercomputer under the direct control of the Subconscious Mind, necessary only due to complexity of the human organism. Simpler forms of life such as minerals, plants, and single celled organisms such as the amoeba, have no need for a brain, but they most certainly do have a Mind, and that Mind is an inseparable aspect of the Universal Mind and of us and all life in the Universe.
Now, find a plant and feel its unique Energy. Hold your hands together, side by side, palms facing downward a few inches above the plant, and relax as much as possible. Soon, you will feel the Energy of the plant as a warm glowing feeling over the palms of your hands. Attune yourself to the Energy of the plant and know it too is every bit as much an aspect of God as you are. Repeat this whenever you have an opportunity, whether in nature or in your own home or garden. You will soon understand that to go with the flow of life is to be in the flow of life and in complete harmony with The Source, and All that is.
Matt Make it stop. Please, for the love of all that is holy.
:)
I agree deb. Some monitoring needs to occur here! Also, I would like a forum where I can complain and ask for help and I won't feel like I'm hijacking the thread only to be forgotten when some crackhead posts something about crying cucumbers.
I craved sugar and dairy uncontrollably today. Don't know if it was the news that my aunt is very sick, or the stress of school revving up, or my body rebelling in general. I'm so frustrated! My asthma is coming back too after improving consistently for 3-4 months w/ 180 guidelines :(
JT,
I don't view you as a source of negativity. I think it is important for there to be a diverse range of views, opinions and personalities on all blogs, including this one. You articulate your ideas clearly and respectfully and I have learned from your comments.
I agree with Johnny: If we all agree we are indeed "just a bunch of paleo wusses."
In short, I hope you come back– provided that you feel like you also learn/benefit from being here…
wheezy, so sorry to hear that bad news.. as for cravings.. how about a nice big yam with some coconut oil on it? sweet and creamy, sugar and dairy free :)
JT,
i have to agree with DML, i have gotten alot out of our debates and have reflected alot because of our different points of view
Stay here, JT: a little arguing makes for a more interesting blog than everyone agreeing.
JT you should stay so we can be exposed to different arguments, but I just have one request: that you more fully explain what your argument is? What I've gathered is that you don't think people should RRARF for long. IMO, no one would want to… if RRARF does what it's supposed to you feel rejuvenated and your appetite decreases, so you start becoming more active & eating til satisfied, though not restricting at all. What do you recommend for health and body comp?
@Daniel Holt:
That is…well…interesting. For me this all sounds a bit too far out there, but on the other hand it would also be wrong to completely dismiss that as 100% bullshit.
For all that I know, plants actually do seem to communicate with each other, so it actually for me wouldn't even be that much of a stretch to assume that they have some consciousness or are part of a bigger form of consciousness. After all, in the traditional Asian culture huge and ancient trees are also said to have some kind of consciousness and considering how surprisingly true and advanced many of the traditional Asian beliefs are, I think one should not completely dismiss the thought of that possibly being the case.
How much of that, that you posted really is true/makes sense, I cannot say, I'm kinda doubtful, but as I said, it is interesting indeed.
Also, that whole lie detector approach seems a bit fishy to me.
@wheezy
Why are you frustrated about craving sugar and dairy?
I'm gonna sweep the leg of the next person who a)complains that no one likes them. b) complains that we don't have a forum.
@Danyelle
That's what kind of man I am Danyelle. It's not easy though. It costs me a lot of pain and sacrifice to be this way. I'm sure you already know this but I let him win that tournament. Crane kick? Paa-lease! That's what drew me to Matt and this blog. His willingness to help the little people. The people that don't matter…….you all. Just think what kind of world we would live in if it wasn't for people like Matt and I. You know what I think are the best traits of me and Matt though? The humility. We come down SO far to help. I didn't realize how far down I had to come until I got acquainted with the commentors here. I'm sure Matt didn't either. But it's all worth it to see you guys & gals smile.
http://db.tt/G3YXTqv
@The almighty metabolism healer
If there was a forum then you, Chief, JT and all the smart people could make up the comments section of the blog and people like myself, GFM, Nip (and a few more that I don't want to mention that will prob get mad for me saying) that don't really have anything useful to add could hang out at the forums just waiting for a chance to see you and that's where we could flirt with you, jump in circles around you yelling "hey matt, hey matt, look at me matt", and buy whatever you are peddling. Everyone would be where they belong. Example: Me=on top of the world, humanitarian, philanthropist, LaRusso=8 inch biceps
"I'm gonna sweep the leg of the next person who a)complains that no one likes them. b) complains that we don't have a forum."
The NEXT person. Starting now.
No one like me.. -and btw, why don't we have a forum?
;-P
A forum would be wack. This old school approach is fine, just needs some guidance and moderation…. Anyway I think we are due a new post here soon, should calm this all down!
madMUHHH,
Your skepticism is unfounded and unreasonable. Their's research to back the studies. You can google them I'm sure. If you really wanted to know you can look into the science of how a lie detector test works and maybe also plant physiology. Come to think of it veganism for the goal of being humane is a major oxymoron because plants experience fear and death as they are being consumed alive. Killing animals might only be less humane because we know they can feel physical pain, but we're not sure whether or not plants feel pain when they're killed. So when you're eating a vegetable it could be the same as throwing a cow into a meat grinder alive, which happens. Other than that I don't want my kids to come out mentally challenged from a vegan lifestyle I'm taking on. I'd love them just the same but I'd rather give them a better opportunity in life.
Daniel, When you have kids, do not force them to read about weeping plants. It's just bad parenting.
:)
Kids like that stuff. Especially when you don't force them to do it and you explain the reasoning to it when you expose them to it. I hope to think I won't have to force my kids to do anything, that's just bad parenting.
Ok well good luck to you. Are you married, just curious.
@Daniel Holt:
Well, perhaps my scepticism is unfounded. I don't know how a lie detector works, I don't know that much about plant physiology. And this is also why I am not able to judge the text passage you quoted appropriately, which makes it impossible for me to come to a direct conclusion, which in turn only leaves doubt as an option.
At least I am not dismissing that stuff imediately, like I am sure tha vast majority of the people who read it have. ;-)
My hubby has been saying for 15 years that eating plants is just cruel, coz they're still alive. I'm pretty sure he's just trying to get out of eating his veggies.
If you're into eating raw, eating still living plants is a bonus. More enzymes and life goodness. Plus some of them foreigner types eat live seafood and bugs. Ewww.
The law of the land is eat or be eaten. We're at the top of the food chain. We get to eat whatever we want. Plus, are we going to start eradicating cows and bunnies for being cruel? (About time wolves and panthers got a break).
I'm just being silly. Hey Matt, look at me, not Johnny. Nobody else likes me. Where's the forum?
madMUHHH,
There is also the option of open mindedness. It's different than gullibility. Their's also discernment. I can research it and further verify or find wrong in the information. More people than not are more gullible than doubtful or open minded. Unlike your outlook, which is some people's but not all, I can keep questioning things to get deeper and deeper answers. Is chriopractic work bogus or is it the particular chiropractor, or is it just some of the things he says can be throwaway with others you keep in mind. It's just about having a reasonable perspective.
Nope, I'm not married. But if I were the discussions I'd have would be based on the other individuals interests. If this topic interested them, I'd talk about it. If not, I'd talk about something else. I should get paid for this advice.
SWEEP THE LEG! I know it's a lame old cliche, but laughter is actually pretty good medicine. I'm having such a good time with these comments. They really run the gamut of human (if not vegetable) personalities. Plus, since I'm a big grown-up girl, I can skim/skip the comments that bore/bother/terrify me.
Look at me, Matt! Not these other losers. (sprinting in circles, sucking in the room) Pay attention to me!
P.S. Before I only liked you Johnny. Now since you made me laugh so hard I genuinely love you. Do you have a groupie forum I could hang out in of your own?
We could learn even more if we were to attach a live vegetable to a lie detector test and see what the graphs say as we eat it. That could give us an idea of what the vegetable might be experiencing, and to see at what point the graph stops charting information because the vegetable died. Maybe we could figure out what level of fear, or feeling of death, or even possibly pain it could be experiencing.
@Daniel Holt:
I very much agree and actually open-mindedness is even the more appropriate term for my perspective on this.
As I said, I am not dismissing this and I think it is a possibility, I just do not want to jump to any premature conclusions.
You think a lot of these vegan issues will not be present if the person follows a high carbohydrate lifestyle? Then there's the whole issue about getting your fat intake in, everyone saying something different. From what I've seen amino acids become deficient when not enough carbohydrates are taken in. However, there's a calorie surplus in this system and many vegans go low calorie. Low calorie always leads to issues except for very rare circumstances. Their may be other issues still present such as certain vitamins such as As and Bs, minerals such as zinc, certain fats, and for some reason certain amino acids even though on nutritiondata they appear to be present in vegan foods. There's literature that supports the form of these vitamins/minerals needed are only from meat eater sources. I've witnessed vegans to not be able to attain as high a level of performance as the highest ranking meat eaters in their sports but I haven't observed all sports and definetely not all vegans or meat eaters for that matter. I've also seen vegans go above and beyond any meat eaters under many parameters. I'll say there's a whole lot of issues in any path that is chosen. Matt Stone's system makes a whole lot of since to my thoroughly confused mind because I'm used to a carby, fatty, food system that has some meat in it. Take out the high pufa vegetable oil. WAPF thoroughly explains things. Some in it are known to have a higher bmi and I've read Aajonus say a 25% bodyfat is ideal though society/media suggest lower bodyfat. More and more people are becoming higher bmi, which in many cases isn't high bodyfat but our system implies it's "overweight". Our health practicioners often times have high bmi yet the health system doesn't like to cover people with a high bmi and athletes have a higher bmi.
From the little knowledge I have vegetables and fruits die once they are picked or uprooted.
really good matt! i was diagnosed with
PCOS 10 years ago, the symptoms were weight gain, irregular cycles and some hirsutism, i also had elevated levels of prolactins. I tried different medications but regular exercise was the one thing that kept my periods regular. But i was also on the weight loss and gain roller coaster. After RRARF I've gained a lot of weight, i also started BSM a month ago and since then my skin is good and the few yucky hairs on my face are slowing down.I started dieting – which means eating as little as possible when i was 15 and i see now how that must have screwed my body up.My appetite seems to be under control.How do i try to incorporate exercise in all this? i was thinking of a mix yoga, kettlebellls, walking and some dance com,bined with the exercise approach you mentuoned using the elliptical trainer.
Hiya Matt,
I'm really very grateful for your blog. You have challenged my preconceived notions of diet, and I figured I was doing things right before, but I'm glad to find out there is another right way, and in the meanwhile, I'm sure you will revise things as you learn more, but I am quite free to enjoy life without my own crazy kooky obsessive nature getting in the way. Thanks for doing all that you do bro!
Hi Matt,
I stumbled upon your site because I was searching for natural ways to increase basal body temperature. My husband and I have been trying to get pregnant… my menstrual cycle has been out of whack for the past 15 years, I had been on birth control to get a period and finally last year decided to get off it and start trying to get pregnant. My cycles are still pretty erratic, but I’ve started trying RRARF. For the first 2 weeks, my temps were up in the 98’s, but then I had my period and they went down to around 97.5’s. For the past three days, they’ve been 96.4, 97.1, 97.0. I think I’m doing RRARF pretty well, but maybe not… I am confused and hoping to get normal cycles with ovulation. Any advice?
Thanks!
I have a pre-ovulation BBT of about 96.4-96.8 and a post-ovulation BBT of about 97.2-97.7.
Is this considered low and could this be why we are on our 8th month of trying to conceive? Will your diet help?
Yes, that is definitely too low, and following the general ideas of “eating for heat” discussed at this site usually brings temps up to normal to high normal, and pregnancy often ensues in those who have had prior troubles. Worth a shot for sure.