I’ve made the point before and I’ll make it even more emphatically here – there is only one person that has cracked the code of the RBTI. His name is Challen Waychoff. It has recently come to my attention that many people are hearing about RBTI here, googling it, and ending up on the forums of various jagoffs that have no idea what they are doing. Fail.There is only one person in the world that has developed any degree of mastery using the Reams equation. Accept no substitutes.
For example, the most popular of the “RBTI” practitioners nearly killed the person that speaks in the following interview, by having her drink a bunch of water. Water is like kryptonite to the hypoglycemic, and this is one of the worst cases of hypoglycemia imaginable – complete with daily blackouts prior to finding the really deally in Wheely.
Anyway, Challen’s program is a program designed to achieve remineralization. And well, having a tooth start to regenerate and literally pop out a filling in only two weeks time is a pretty remarkable example of the amazing remineralizing potential of Waychoff’s work. Have a listen.
How to RAISE YOUR METABOLISM.
Great interview – thanks for posting this. How would you (or Challen) summarize the simplicity of the program?
How do you suggest people get started with RBTI? Do they need to go to Waychoff or do an online course with Olszta or others? Where do you suggest getting the kit or should you just put it together yourself? Should we get the materials from Waychoff's site itself. I guess the real question is what are you using?
Okay. Well then, Jib and all… regarding what I said on the last post about that RBTI website… NEVER MIND! :-)
Matt,
Did she take min-col? Do you take min-col?
Anonymous-
Yes. Min-col is one of several mineral supplements used depending on what a person's chemistry is. Min-col is more pH neutral so pretty much anyone can use it.
BRB-
Get a test kit from Challen, send him your numbers, have him tell you what to do, and, most importantly, do exactly what he tells you to the best of your ability for at least several months. This is not something that is adaptable or something to customize for yourself. It is very specific and precise, and any deviation can make the difference between success and failure. The weird things you'll be told to do are not recommended just for shits and gigs, but really do show up in the numbers and prevent you from getting in the A range where healing and remineralization can occur.
From what I understand, Challen does the RBTI. Michael, and everyone else, "tries" to do the RBTI – often very unsuccessfully. That's why I was mortified that others were looking into other practitioners of RBTI, which will most likely guide people to complete and utter failure at a very high cost. And make me look like an ass in the process. Do not associate what others are doing with what Challen is doing. They are world's apart.
Ingrid-
There's a lot to learn, but it is simple. It's just about learning some simple fundamentals, and lots of them. But the fundamentals are very consistent and accurate. What Challen is doing is best suited for the very ill in a retreat type setting where the program can be done exact. But one can still toy around with it at home and learn as they go. Many who never meet Challen still are able to figure things out on their own. Others don't quite get there.
Right on, homey. Love the story of tooth remineralization. I've heard anecdotes about that happening to others too. Is this something people reliably experience? If I worked with Challen, would I expect to pop out any fillings? Or at least not get any more cavities?
Also, I got word- I'll be at Wise Traditions 2011 in Dallas. See ya there, brother. Who else is coming?!
:-D
Matt,
Couple of questions. From your response to Ingrid, you mention it's best suited for the very ill, so is it worth it for someone who is relatively healthy but has a few non life threating issues?
Also, what is Challen's recommendation for someone who is or is trying to get pregnant?
Paul
wow rbti looks amazing. so does the sauteed okra!
i'm somewhat surprised you are aghast that people are googling rbti and trying to find out as much as they can from any and every site on the internet, matt. you told us you were planning to write furiously on rbti and your experiences with challen for the month of july and yet you have only provided us with 2 barely informative posts and one testimonial. what do you expect people to do? everyone who has commented has asked questions about the how, what, when, where, why and how's of this thing and you have not provided very much for us. you give little snippets of info in the comments section, but not nearly enough to give someone an accurate idea of what it would take to actually take rbti on for themselves. i myself am disappointed with the way you have presented rbti, a potentially great healing protocol for many people. it's frustrating that if people want to know more they either have to scroll through the comments of these last 3 posts to see if you have answered anyone's questions or deal with a scant amount of info that will get them nowhere. just my opinion obviously, but i do hope you will start providing more of the pertinent facts about rbti.
Matt,
Do particular number patterns tend to correlate with particular diseases in RBTI?
I ask this because For years I've had psoriasis on and off. Whenever I hear of a new therapy I'm always curious to know if they have a grasp on what causes it.
I don't suppose you could ask Challen if psoriasis means anything specific to him?
I'm becoming quite fascinated by this whole RBTI thing.
does challen have any young kids as patients? i have a 3 year old w/ cavities and i have loaded her up w/ WAPF foods but to no avail.
thanks! i appreciate this info.
I don't get it. On the one hand Challen is the only one who has figured it out, on the other hand you can already interpret the numbers by yourself because it's very easy and simple? Where are Challen's disciples? After all he's been using his new stuff since 2005.
If all this is true, Challen is something like the Jesus of health. But then again, didn't we think that about Aajonus before? He had some pretty amazing things going on, too, like large-scale tissue regrowth among others.
I have to echo Paul, Team Smith (you're not the only one!) and Hans – please answer them as best you can!
My own question – if only Challen can do it, what happens if you get into RBTI and he gets hit by a bus the next week? Are you out of luck on this method? Relying on one person in all the world is… scary.
Hope you had a good FL trip.
"For example, the most popular of the "RBTI" practitioners nearly killed the person that speaks in the following interview, by having her drink a bunch of water."
If you take a step back, that does sound a bit crazy, doesn't it… Killing someone by making them drink water? On the other hand, there have been times when I did feel better drinking less.
Hawaii Girl-
Challen has documented all of the patterns and all of the rules. It is totally reproducible. Everything anyone would need to know to perpetuate what he has discovered is there on display in his office.
Team Smith-
If you want to know about RBTI or do the RBTI, call Challen and find out what you need to do to begin. I've been saying all along that there is no reading to be done about it. It doesn't exist. Reams wrote one book that is jibberish to anyone trying to explore RBTI. The rest of the information out there falls between innaccurate and misleading – put out by those who don't know how to get reliable results.
I would have said more than I have, but honestly, people wouldn't be able to handle it, and it would just make me look like I have completely lost my mind. That would be a huge disservice, because there are a lot of people that could benefit from this. I don't want people talking themselves out of this being useful before they even try it or look into it further.
Paul-
No. Probably not worth it. This is for those that don't mind sacrificing a large portion of their lives for health. It is socially dysfunctional in countless ways. It's only worth it if the other option is dying or being ill in bed all day, or if you just happen to be a total health fanatic (which is fine if you really are inspired by the field, but not if you do it because of perfectionist tendencies are neurosis). It would make for a fantastic pre-pregnancy prep.
Rocket-
Yes. Not "tend to correlate" but correspond 100%.
Lisa-
Challen has extensive experience with young children. He currently takes care of a kid whose life he saved years ago.
Hans-
Challen has no disciples. Until now he's been almost completely undiscovered. He just does realty and investments in his office and has a back room where he occasionally does a little health stuff when people find him through word of mouth.
I never thought much of anything about Aajonus, other than he had a few good points about the holes in the germ theory, and some interesting thoughts about cancer.
Kash-
Enjoy that okra. Challen is an okra fanatic. Loves soft-seeded vegetables for manganese.
Rob A. –
I wouldn't say it happens every time. But he has amazing stories of remineralization of bone, teeth, etc.
His own lower jaw expanded at age 57, causing his lower teeth to straighten out quite a bit. His office diva had an increase in shoe size by 2 sizes due to remineralization of bones in her feet. Several adults have grown 2 to 3 inches on the program. That kind of stuff.
I'm in agreement with some of the others here in that I'm a bit appalled that Matt has so quickly drunk the RBTI kool-aid. Please step back and allow yourself time to see what happens on a prolonged Challen RBTI protocol, Matt, before you lead to many people down the wrong path. I've not sure how much faith we can put in your investigative process if you so quickly jump on the bandwagon after just one week.
Thing is, if you spend any amount of time reading RBTI stuff, almost every practitioner claims to be The One and Only who is carrying on Reams' work. Something is seriously wrong with any health protocol where one man claims to have The Keys to good health, and says that no one else has a clue.
Almost anyone can get initial results by making some changes in their diet or supplements. But I'm here to say again that after two years under Challen's directions I developed health problems I never had before. Initially, I saw some improvements in my health, but after awhile there were no additional improvements, and then later developed the problems I've mentioned before. Something is definitely not right.
Hans-
Water makes the sugar, salt, and urea readings drop.
Someone with low levels will be in a constant state of hypoglycemia and borderline hyponatremia while trying to drink more than a few ounces of distilled water.
The water recommendation was causing major crashes, daily blackouts, etc.
Challen fixed that problem the first day, and she's been in recovery ever since. He is seeing her in person now and caught her making the mistake of drinking water in the afternoon, which was causing her sugars to drop in the afternoon. He stopped those lows by having her cut that out. Worked great.
Seriously ill and depleted people are very sensitive. And with the universal infatuation with drinking absurd amounts of water, many are dishing out advice that is totally inappropriate for certain individuals.
Sure, do a study on water and giving the general population more water will probably result in improvements in all kinds of areas on a percentage basis. But maybe 25% of the people are negatively impacted – some severely so.
With testing you can see precisely who needs to drink water, how much, and at what time. No collateral damage with a blanket recommendation made on a percentage basis.
Dorie
Share your name and I will dig out your numbers. I will see if you followed the program like you say.
Thanks again Dorie. I appreciate your comments. As one of Challen's biggest groupies has discovered, it was difficult to follow from a distance. Only in person was Challen able to catch the small mistakes the person was making, and stop the repeated failures.
I think a retreat type format is the only real way what Challen does could ever be truly successful for a large percentage of people.
I'm not trying to necessarily steer people down this path either. People have called me with excitement and I talked them out of it. You should have never even dreamed of following this program. This is not for healthy people, generally-speaking. This is for ill people.
Let's say hypothetically that chemotherapy did work for curing terminal cases of cancer. That would be a great discovery. That doesn't mean that everyone should run to the doctor to sign up for chemotherapy.
And, despite my excitement, I'm still not sold. I still think the most important number is 98.6 – or that it should be one of the numbers at the very least. It's not like I'm walking on water either. Adding more meat and dairy back into my diet hasn't done much thus far other than give me more physical pain and body odor like it has always done.
But the most major health problem I've faced in my adult life – pet allergies, has all but completely disappeared. Pretty remarkable seeing that I was having sneeze attacks around a 12-pound hypoallergenic dog 3 weeks ago.
But even I am not that concerned about my personal response to things – something I've probably always put too much weight on. I have confidence that those in dire health circumstances can get more benefit from this than anything else I've come across. And that's what matters to me right now.
Anyone interested in asking questions about RBTI the way Challen works it can go to
ReallyRBTIinfo@yahoogroups.com
Barbie, you will dig out my numbers? Are you connected to Challen and willing to reveal my private info publicly?
Not sure why I'm not allowed to share my story without someone implying I'm lying about being on the program. Is not my story as valid as the story of the anonymous woman on the video who did not even show her face? We have nothing to go on other than her word for it, and yet no one is implying that she's a liar.
Matt!
So I am finally going to shed my "lurker" status and start participating in this beautiful 180 community which I am coming to appreciate more each day. Thank you for all of your efforts thus far – I for one am super appreciative and have been soaking it up like a sponge.
This RBTI adventure was the impetus that compelled me to post. Since you first wrote on it, I have read pretty furiously on the subject and to say I am intrigued would be an understatement. I know it's not great posting etiquette to go on and on, but since I have not mastered the craft of marrying brevity and my thoughts, all I can promise is that I will do my best to not hog up your server space. Forgive me if I press back on some things too – one way I learn best is by playing devil's advocate:
1) How did you arrive at the conclusion that Challen is the only effective RBTI instructor currently practicing? In my study so far, I also have heard that there are many practitioners "out there" who are hybridizing Reams' original method. I actually tracked down and spoke with the practitioner to whom Reams left the copyright to his book "Choose Life or Death" and she shared that Challen was not following Reams' method precisely. This doesn't of course, discredit him or his work. It just makes me curious as to how you have concluded he is the only "real deal" RBTI-er.
2) How are you navigating the level of stringency and compliance to protocol that the RBTI approach declares is necessary for success. I for one am not one to argue with results, but it is difficult to shed certain ideas without attempting to reconcile them with RBTI in some way. I've read "Choose Life or Death" and listened to the Solomon Kirban/Reams interview, and there are areas that are just plain tough to wrestle down. For example, Reams believed most vegetable oils were not only OK to eat, but ideal. This was becoming a sacred cow for me (and I have to imagine for you as well since I believe it was 1 of the 3 most important tenants you listed in your recent 180 summary). I emailed Ray Peat about RBTI, and he said that he had met Carey Reams, listened to his theories, and did not think his ideas were worth considering. I respect Ray so much… I guess I'm just having a hard time reconciling all of this compelling information, especially when it conflicts and double-especially when one school of thought demands no deviance from its methodology.
Anyway, would love to hear more of your thoughts on this. I think you are uniquely qualified to process some of this stuff and look forward to your analysis.
Ty
Thanks, Matt, for clarifying where you stand. Actually, what you just said about it being for the very ill verifies what I've wondered about it for quite some time, and would perhaps explain the differing results from people who consult with Challen. I do wonder what will happen with some of them after years on the program. Perhaps it's a program for turning around health, but not for long-term benefits?
I never said anything about lying. I do find it odd you claim two years doing something that was making you ill is all.
Ty
June wiles. Her sister died of a cancer. Melanoma. June could not turn it around. I know a woman cancer free from being 30 days from death with the same cancer. She got that bad working with june. She is cancer free today, six years with challen.
So, Matt, if I'm having a hard time because 1) I'm still exhausted all day, 2) I can't get my temp up that last degree, 3) I haven't lost any of the RRARF weight (probably other issues but those are the main ones)… would you consider that ill enough to try RBTI? Or would you try thyroid instead? I have to do something because I can't get thru the day, most days. I've fixed so many problems in the last few years, but this isn't better after a year. That 53 week (or whatever) post-starvation turnaround to weight loss never happened.
Ty-
I have no interest entering in any drama with the other practitioners of RBTI. I don't really give a flying rats ass about Reams and who is doing it "right" or whatever. It is irrelevant. I care about who is getting results, and I know that others who have worked with other RBTI practitioners got no results, only to have dramatic health improvements within days of switching over to Challen.
No other practitioners can pinpoint health problems with the exactitude of Challen. Nor can they tell you what you ate and what day you ate it when deviating from the program. Challen can even tell if someone is taking Armour thyroid simply by looking at the numbers. He couldn't do this for 20 years of practicing it. He can do it now.
I recognized the power in this immediately, and had to see it for myself. I have seen it. It is impressive. I can't help but be overwhelmed with excitement over it because I have never come across something this precise and sophisticated in the field of nutrition.
As for Ray Peat, he takes a generalist approach. For example, raising sugar levels stops hypoglycemia and migraines. But everyone is instructed to eat a high sugar, high fat diet. This is incredibly awesome for many people who are underweight, dieted, starved, eating disordered, and so on.
But for the vast majority, many of which need to drop sugar levels and have no problems with hypoglycemia, it can be the wrong diet.
While his info. is pretty good for the majority, he is at the mercy of the general, and cannot take advantage of the specifics offered up by testing and customization.
The fact that he didn't think Reams's theories were interesting tells of his limited mindset. I don't care about Reams's theories either. I care more about what Challen is doing in practice because he is getting results. Flaws in theory or logic don't deter me.
Peat writes articles saying that migraines and seizures have something to do with hypoglycemia and hyponatremia. Challen has the tools to test this, and has come up with specific and detailed protocols to follow to prevent these conditions with what could be damn near 100% infallibility. In short-term practice, Challen is light years ahead of Peat.
However, Peat shows us the long-term consequences of eating lots of oxidized corn oil. Challen has noted that health problems that manifest most slowly are the most difficult to see in the numbers. A declining metabolic rate, accelerated pace of free radical damage and lipid peroxidation, and so on are things the RBTI probably can't pick up.
In short, when cooking for myself I won't be eating corn oil, but will opt for olive oil. When given a choice between those two, the choice is simple. And most of my fat intake will come from dairy fats, beef, lamb, and a little coconut here and there – as well as the fermentation of fiber and starch into the short-chain saturated fats. And I will continue to monitor my body temperature and prevent it from dropping. So business as usual there.
I do think research is blind without paying attention to what gets instant and impressive results. I also think impressive short-term methods are blind if they do not take some basic physiology, biochemistry, and the science of aging into account.
I'm not adapting what Challen does to my own liking – looking at it like a buffet. The only issue I have is the corn oil. I have little to no issue with olive oil whatsoever, so I just make that choice when the choice is given. I don't see much reason to make an issue out of it beyond that.
off topic a bit, does anyone know anything about tannic acid to cure cancer? Someone told me it is the juice of a banana tree? Crazy or true?
http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread369578/pg1
Hawaii Girl-
I think you are a pretty good candidate. Your history suggests that you are highly sensitive (water allergy for example), and probably have what Challen would refer to as "low reserve energy."
When you literally can't live life anywhere near the level you know you should, then dedicating a lot of time and effort to something like this is worth the potential payoff.
Just make sure you do it as close to how he suggests as possible. His reasoning for all the tiny idiosyncrasies is not punishment or religious fanaticism, but very precise guidelines for very important and well-scrutinized reasons.
Bummer me and Pip can't come out there and get you started without having to make the initial investment in testing supplies and consultation just to taste what it can do for you.
In a month or two I'll be much more capable of making that judgement call with confidence. I need much more time for this to soak in before I can give it the 100% seal of approval – especially knowing how tight your finances are. Be patient if you can. Take advantage of having your very own guinea pig that tells all.
Barbie, if you read my comments carefully you will see that I did not follow it for two years after it "made me ill" (your words, not mine). I'll repeat what I said earlier: initially I saw some benefits which eventually leveled off while on the program, and then several health issues arose I'd never had before. After continuing to consult with Challen in hopes of resolving them, and allowing a fair amount of time on the program for them to resolve, I finally gave up on something that seemed to be doing me more harm than good. Why is that so hard to believe?
Its not. Perhaps I misread. I wish I could know more of your situation and why that would happen when it gets better for others but it is what it is.
Thank you for sharing.
Barbie, my hunch is that there are others like me who have had similar experiences, and who just abandon RBTI altogether rather than hang around blogs like this to try to figure out what went wrong. I did my best to follow Challen's instructions, which are easy enough to follow at home, but sometimes difficult when eating elsewhere. No one can follow it perfectly all the time. But having done so as closely as I did, I feel like I should have had better results. That's why I think that although the RBTI has answers for some people, it doesn't for all, and that indeed it may even miss some important health issues in those it does help. My concern is for anyone believing that it reveals everything there is to know about their health.
Matt wrote, "However, Peat shows us the long-term consequences of eating lots of oxidized corn oil. Challen has noted that health problems that manifest most slowly are the most difficult to see in the numbers. A declining metabolic rate, accelerated pace of free radical damage and lipid peroxidation, and so on are things the RBTI probably can't pick up."
This is precisely my concern, that it does NOT pick everything up, but that proponents of the RBTI claim that it does. That it picks up some things I can believe. But that it shows everything, I can't.
Additionally, while Challen may be able to see see that someone is hypoglycemic via their numbers and the regular use of the refractometer (which I agree is an invaluable tool), he may not know the best method for *that person* to resolve it. Our bodies and metabolisms are all different. Why would the same method work for every person?
After quitting consulting with him, I tried a different method of addressing my sugar drops in that I ate some fat and protein with the fruit when my sugar dropped. I've had much better success in keeping it where it should be more consistently, as well as losing some of the fat off my belly that I'd gained while on the RBTI. (Belly fat is another concern I have, as I saw the same thing happen in another person on the RBTI (who consulted with Challen), and pictures/videos of Reams and Challen reveal they both have a large paunch in the lower abdomen. Challen told me once that he had lost some since he recorded his videos, but I've not seen pictures of him to know whether his body composition had also changed.
I do want to say this, after saying all this negative stuff: Challen is a great guy and eager to help people. I don't doubt for a minute his motives, or that he has successfully helped some people to turn their health around. That he can for everyone — well, my own experience obviously makes me doubt that.
Matt said:
"I would have said more than I have, but honestly, people wouldn't be able to handle it, and it would just make me look like I have completely lost my mind. That would be a huge disservice, because there are a lot of people that could benefit from this. I don't want people talking themselves out of this being useful before they even try it or look into it further."
That's exactly the stuff I want to hear about!
If it makes the naysayers run, I say let them go. If what they read here is upsetting there's plenty of places to go for mainstream nutritional and medical information that won't challenge their cherished beliefs.
What's not easy to find is someone who is willing to keep an open mind, admit they could be wrong and admit they don't know everything.
Every great discovery starts out as blasphemy. I, for one, want to hear more your blasphemy!
Sirch-
That's the spirit. I'll try to sack up and spit it out.
Dorie-
Again, your comments are just fantastic. I too have had many great successes with sugar problems with a totally different approach (brief bouts of whole foods overfeeding). I've had many failures as well. I've also experienced radical improvements in sugar stability from eating a very high fruit diet, just as others report. There are many paths to fixing sugar instability, and there have been many cases where there is no longer any need for fruit, or ice cream, or sugar under the tongue, or whatever… because sugar crashes can and do completely vanish. Completely. Many times just eating more food and more carbohydrates clears this right up – the opposite of the path to creating the most vicious hypoglycemia – prolonged carb and calorie restriction (the precise method, combined with endurance exercise, used by the interviewee above to become bedridden for a year).
But what I do feel is that the sickest and most desperate people have the best chance of recovery with Challen than with anyone else – certainly in the field of nutrition. And certainly if they are able to work with him one-on-one instead of trying to pull it off unsupervised.
Matt,
Remember when I said that I like how you can say in 5 words what it takes me to say in 50? I like it when you ramble too — I think maybe even more :-)
And I know it fills in more blanks for people. Keep doin' your thing.
To all in general,
Matt already said some of the things I was going to point out, but I just want to say, this is an experiment. And it's early. Matt's only been working with Challen for a week or so. Plus, if he didn't, who would? Probably no one. Everyone who has taken an interest in RBTI has done so for themselves – not that there's anything wrong with that – but Matt's interest is to learn it and help others. And hopefully he'll be able to learn a lot of what Challen learned over the years. I'm confident that if anyone can understand it, Matt can. And I believe he can articulate it to people way better than Challen.
I know people who need the kind of healing for which RBTI has the potential. But I voiced to Matt my concern about getting (my) people on board, testing them (with supplies that I would absorb the cost of – not them), but then lose them when I had them call Challen for their initial consult about their numbers. I think that's where I would lose most of them before they even give it a chance — just because of the way he tends to come across (like on his website and other things Matt shared).
Anyway, my point is, it would be nice to have someone like Matt to go to who understands it like Challen does.
BTW, that's what I liked about that (other) website – it helped people better understand RBTI. It explains it without the things that turn people off with Challen. I don't like to send people to his website, because they always dismiss it without giving it a chance. People just naturally want to research it before they are willing to invest money or time – and risk their health. So that website made it easier for them to understand it before taking that leap of faith.
Anyway, like I said before, if this has the potential to help the people I know and care about…
I'm just glad that Matt is willing to dedicate this much time and effort to investigating it further. RBTI needs someone like Matt — to either debunk it or, if it works, to learn it and share it.
I'm missing a bit the scientific spirit in this experiment. Mr. Challen says "my jaw expanded," Matt says: "his jaw expanded," not "he claims that his jaw expanded." Before Matt stated that "Challen is 5'8" with crooked teeth and a bunch of fillings"… It's seriously disappointing. Maybe the numbers do mean something – but if they don't even show something like major food allergies, then there are either other "numbers" that need to be considered, or Challen hasn't mastered reading them to the degree Matt thinks he has.
Amen AS. I like Matt being Head Guiena Pig. He is my hero. Xo hagalicous
Matt –
Thanks for the robust and thoughtful reply. It's always kind of a treat to get a well-thought out response on a blog these days – especially one that actually addresses the question at hand.
I believe I read something you wrote (can't find it now) regarding how RBTI would be ideally suited to those with serious health issues. I can totally see that the benefits are the greatest for these desparate situations. From what you know so far, do you feel that it would also be a worthwhile "lifestyle" to adopt for those of us who appear and feel relatively healthy? I'm all about a prophylactic appraoch to disease-prevention. Even though this diet sounds quite uptight/anal/rigid, if it's worth it, I'm all for it. What do you think? Also, I would be curious as to your thoughts on how much of a time investment would be required to be an effective RBTI practitioner. I think it would be invaluable to have this skill set – even if it took years to develop – and be able to help you friends and family.
Ty
AS-
You're right that it deserves a fair shot, and no one has really gone to Wheeling to see what Challen is doing, and whether or not it is a viable and consistent form of nutritional therapy. And yes, I'm the only person nerdy enough to show up and see what's going on.
Learning the basics is so simple. If this really does pan out and continue to impress, I envision people learning the basics and being able to open up small retreats or testing clinics all over the country. They can call in numbers to Challen and get an analysis anytime. Challen could spend his time doing what he does best – putting those decades of hard-earned knowledge into action. Like telling a certain someone what it means when their urine pH test is bluer than a Smurf's ass :)
And the mundane details of what to eat and what not to eat, basic meal structure, drinking schedule, and so on can be up to caregivers with retreats or testing clinics or whatever.
Challen could teach the basics to practitioners and analyze numbers. I could continue to work as an unbiased liason between him and the general public, from the sheer standpoint of my beliefs of its effectiveness.
Anyway, if Challen's work really is as remarkable as advertised, I'll do whatever it takes to have his phone ringing so constantly he won't have time to do anything but read numbers :)
No time to refer to something as a "No-no food," perhaps the most psychologically unpalatable term one could apply to something edible!!!
Or read a list of "no-no foods" that, in actuality if one were to follow his guidance, would find is 50% yes-yes foods (like white flour, white rice, white sugar, dairy fat, salt, and so on – which are foods he eats almost daily, just not in excess).
Hans-
His office diva told me his jaw expanded. She's worked with him for 14 years.
As for food allergies, Challen is very wary about causing them (he rotates foods meticulously, never eating the same vegetable two days in a row, never eating the same sweetener two days in a row, never eating the same meat two days in a row, etc.).
He also knows that food allergies are part of the picture and will show a loss of energy (departure further from A range numbers). They are harder to find. He can see the loss of energy and what day it occurred. It sometimes isn't easy to tell exactly what caused it. He said he's seen everything from jet lag to changes in elevation to stress cause a loss of energy in the numbers with some of his more puzzling cases.
I appreciate your concern. Trust me, I'm trying to be as skeptical as I can be. It is difficult sometimes to believe something is false when you find out that so many other ludicrous-sounding things you've been told actually are true. But I try.
Ty-
I think this is a great thing to learn and could be a very viable source of extra income or a modest living if you were to develop expertise in it. Even if you just learned the basics and still called in numbers to Challen of people you turned onto it in your local area would be something if you really start to be supportive of the idea that this might be highly effective. (okay, worst sentence ever, but it's late. Gimme a break).
A healthy person should probably just continue to live a passionate life and try to eat an abundance of unprocessed foods.
But if you are going to learn it, you'll definitely have to do it for a while. There's no other way to learn it.
I think you need a lab partner. You can call me Igor. Xo
Yo Matt, change your pic already, it's getting creepy!
AS – Matt's wordsmithing keeps impressing me too.
I am good to wait another month to see what you learn; I have company for a couple weeks and am not up for making any lifestyle overhauls till then. When it comes to recipes, I cannot stick to one to save my life, but I promise I will stick to his advice if I do this (although I can see that I may have to break down on chocolate now and then… the day isn't complete without just a little nibble… and carob is a no go).
You are still welcome to come here any time. The airfare would be like a tax write off, no?
Change the "no-no foods" name for sure, because I now crave pork ribs like no tomorrow, despite going two years with very little pig. Plus I had the best Kauai shrimp last night in a low country boil (also with no-no potato and probably no-no sausage), and I all I could think was this might be the last time I make it.
You're my guinea pig hero; I shall steal you away from Deb and hug you and pet you and call you George.
Matt,
I have contacted Challen.
I spend the better part of my life wishing to feel alive. (on the couch)
I am not depressed. I love my life, and family. I want to feel better to enjoy them.
My lifestyle is dysfunctional. I am sensitive to everything. Most look at me, and think I look "healthy". I have attempted through "Healthy" diets for 13 years to restore my health.
I have had many "Honeymoons" only to find the marriage was a sham.
I first heard of RBTI a few months back from a friend. They said they were going to try it. They didn't.
My fear now after reading your comments……….will I get it right?
Too, what's up with people gaining belly fat? Is this something you have noticed? (Dorie's comment)
Dorie,
Why not share your numbers? I think it would be a great learning tool for people like me. I could use the help. Did you manage to get into the "healing range?" Could you consistantly maintain the "healing range?" This is important to understand.
Matt,
Have you managed to get into the "healing range?" What about the "interviewee?" Has she managed to maintain the "healing range?" I understand she is vastly improved yet, how is her day to day life? Is she truly enjoying life? Or does she feel like she lives just to "nurse herself?"
I can say, that is how I feel. I live just to "nurse myself." :(
Betty
Hey, a question! What equipment exactly do you need for finding out your numbers? I'm asking this because I'm very interested in this approach, but I live in Europe so shipping any stuff overseas would be inconvenient if I could get it from here. Also, does Challen do email consultation? (or Skype?)
Hawaii Girl It's ON! Btw I will be in Honolulu two weeks at Christmas wanna meet up? Deb
Betty
I'm the interviewee. If you would like, you can give matt your email, and we can chat.
Lorelei,
Yes, not only does Matt's word-smithing impress, his passion for the field gives his words a voice that people want to hear – and need to hear. And like Sirch said so well… "What's not easy to find is someone who is willing to keep an open mind, admit they could be wrong and admit they don't know everything."
I like that Matt's passion for the field makes finding the truth – whatever it is – more important to him than being right — even if it means having to eat crow sometimes. It's clear that Matt is doing exactly what he's meant to be doing… and that's why he's "crazy good" at it! :-)
Oh and that pic creeps me out too. The whole image/massage/vibe – not good – definitely doesn't fit him.
Matt,
Yep, that's what I was thinkin' too. And I cannot agree more about re-naming the no-no foods. It gets back to the whole "forbidden" food thing – people want what they can't have!! It's just human nature.
Anyway, I like that you're nerdy enough to do it. And I, for one, thank you for doing it.
P.S. Yeah, just call me Smurfette. Actually, nah, don't :-)
as
Pork and some others will remain nono foods. They are contaminating. The plan is to have a "contaminating list" and a "don't abuse" list.
Moi,
Thank you!
I will take you up on it!
Betty
Matt,
I like the new pic.
hi everyone. First time commenter.
this blog has set my brain on fire!
Congratulations to Matt for being so passionate and for sharing everything with us.
Living in Europe and having been unemployed for over a year, there is no possibility I could visit Challen and get my healthy life back.
A million thanks to all of you for your valuable comments and information.
Moi
it would be nice if you could share some of the answers to Betty's questions with the rest of us. I understand this is personal stuff, though.
Again thank you all
Sofia
Moi,
Thanks. Sounds good. Yes, Matt has explained to me that, while about 5 or so of the no-no foods are definite energy-stealers and should remain no-no foods, the rest are more like no-abuse foods.
Thanks so much for sharing your story! :-)
Yes, I did notice my typo in my comment above about the pic. It was an honest mistake, I swear lol! :-)
AS (or Matt),
What are the 5 or so "energy-stealers"? Pork? Chocolate?
Matt and commenting RBTI-ers,
Have you known or heard of people on RBTI seeing improvements with "psychological" issues like low motivation, depression, anxiety, etc.
Also, this post mentioned tooth remineralization – what about hair remineralization / regrowth?
Sirch wrote:
"AS (or Matt),
What are the 5 or so "energy-stealers"? Pork? Chocolate?"
Sirch,
I'm gonna leave that question for Matt (and the others with RBTI experience) to answer. I don't want to misguide anyone with any of my own possible misunderstandings of it (thus far). I still know very little about it – with any certainty yet. BTW, "energy-stealers" was my word, not Matt's. Don't wanna put words in his mouth either :-)
P.S. Love your attitude and your comments here.
Sirch – I've been wondering that too. It seems like a lot of the "psychological" symptoms I've been having are really just hypoglycemic crashes. It turns out I'm not actually Mrs. Hyde. I've been eating fruit/sugar to avoid them and voila! I'm a decent person again.
I also wonder if some of the depression that I've had the last several years is a combination of physical problems (like hypothyroid or hypoglycemia) but also a depression that comes from being discouraged by so many problems for so long.
Also, Matt said that there are things that effect the numbers that aren't strictly nutritional, like stress. Would that be an issue that Challen should address? Can stress permanently mess with the numbers (and our health) even if we follow all of the dietary/supplement rules?
Thanks Matt for this Challen focus.It sounds really great…
Why is it that far overseas from Europe ? :(
"I do think research is blind without paying attention to what gets instant and impressive results. I also think impressive short-term methods are blind if they do not take some basic physiology, biochemistry, and the science of aging into account."
Well said Matt! It certainly sounds like Challen is doing amazingly in the "short-term solution" department. Long-term, well, I guess only time will tell. The fact that so many things, as we know, can influence overall energy (sleep, stress, jetlag, etc.) and thus, "perfect numbers", is a testament to the complexity of this whole issue. Thanks to nerdy people like you and your followers though, questions will always keep being asked, and I'm thankful for this :)
Oh, as a quick aside, I did recommend, following your most recent articles, that my sister-in-law, who lives in Washington DC, go visit with Challen. Both her and her husband started on the paleo thing (not low-carb though) about a year ago, following decades of SAD. The husband lost tons of weight, gained energy back, and is doing very well. The lady, in spite of great initial improvements, is still sufferering quite a bit, hence my recommending she visits with Challen.
I have no doubt that the numbers work, that Challen has more than enough experience to interpret them, and is able to foresee the unforeseeable. However, I can't help but wonder, how could we really come up with a set of "perfect numbers", representative of "perfect health" over the longer term of any and all human life, something that is inherently so very complex. Isn't this just another example of our "ability" to compartmentalize everything?
A few other quick examples…
"God is a God of math… Go by the numbers, the numbers never lie". Hmmmm…
Pork is "unclean"? What do we make then of the long-lived healthy Okinawans, known to rely extensively on pork products? And, what to make of this (http://www.marksdailyapple.com/oink/ — See also the links at the end of the article).
And the numerous healthy tribes known to rely on shellfish of all kind?
Did they ALL have higher "life energy" and only eat the offending foods every 6 days?!
What about salt? And chocolate? (The longest-lived person on record, Jeanne Calment, was known to eat nearly a kilo of it per week!!!!)
I'm not one to just "go along" with anything ressembling, even if only remotely, religous fervour of some type or another. However, I also will not automatically dismiss it just because of that fact.
As you might imagine, I will definitely be following the adventures of our favourite guinea pig ;)
I'm confused – did she really gain 40 lbs? I thought she was trying to recover from bulimia? Was she under weight or a normal weight before RBTI? If underweight, I can see how that would be good, but otherwise I am confused….
Yeah a list of the "no-no foods" would be nice and a "don't abuse this food" as well!
Maybe a manual for the first steps with what things you should start like what equipment and an instruction list for what you have to pay attention like "don't eat to much carbs after 2 pm" and "don't drink too much water if you are hypoglycemic" etc.
Thanks,
Sylwester
Matt,
I am excited about the prospects that RBTI may offer, but have had one thing nagging at me that I'm wondering if you've heard Challen address. As we all know diet is a huge part of maintaining good health. Other factors, (or more specifically, the reduction of other "stressors") are, however, also an undoubtedly important part of the equation, right? (I.e. Sleep, not over-exercising, emotional stress, environmental toxicity levels, emotional stress levels etc). I have not heard the RBTI methodology address these other areas. Given the specificity of the dietary regimen, it surprises me that none of these other areas are mentioned, and even if they are generally affirmed, that they are dealt with in more detail.
At this point, I am left to conclude that if RBTI proposes the equation for health, and yet does not address these other lifestyle areas, that they do not deem them as integral to getting results. Is it perceived that a proper diet and the resulting energy levels are adequate to "handle" all of the other stressors adequately? I would love to hear both the official RBTI stance on the importance of the other lifestyle areas, as well as your analysis of their stance.
Ty
There are about 1000 refractometers on ebay…just need to pick the 'right' one.
A couple questions:
Is anyone else planning to go to the Wise Traditions conference? I would like to go but would mostly be interested in meeting 180 peeps. The ticket price goes up $50 after Aug 1st, so I'd like to make a decision soon.
Is rbti.info a good website for info on RBTI? I don't know that I'll read much of it, but I may peruse. I can't remember if that website came from Matt or a commenter.
Cheers,
-Aaron
Ty
Actually the numbers will show a pattern of energy loss if you are living too fast. Challen does stress this if your numbers show it. Ask him. He'll tell you.
Moi,
I guess Matt is busy. I sent him my e-mail.
Betty
AaronF,
Yep- mentioned earlier I'll be there. I want to meet other 180 folks too. Who else is coming?
I want to go to WAP but WOW the tickets are expensive, then hotel and air. ouch. Not sure If I can afford it.
Still on the fence and yeah, the price is going up Aug 1 which is Monday.
hmmmmmmmmmmmmm
haggie
Matt, could you please clarify the role of milk in your diet/numbers, is it helpful because of the calcium,phosphate,fats,etc?
Momma, you gots to come to da big island to meet. No can island hop with current tix prices. Sigh.
Ok, never been there, but maybe I can swing it Lorelei!
Mahalo
deb
Matt–I second (third, however many'th) Sirch's request that you share all the stuff that you think is offputting or 'out there'–that's what we came for.
I'm curious too about the 'mood' connection–your interviewee seemed to imply that her mood improved too. Lots of questions, and glad you're also addressing the 'what should people who aren't deathly ill do with the information' question.
Is coconut oil then not considered so good?
Moi – "living too fast". I like that.
Matt, you wrote: "Reams wrote one book that is jibberish to anyone trying to explore RBTI…"
I assume you are referring to the book "Choose Life or Death" — yes?
If so, Waychoff himself writes about that book: "I have studied the RBTI for over 30 years and I really believe that most of the "rules" of the RBTI are in Dr. Reams book, "Choose Life or Death". The problem is that most are not able to see them. For example the "pattern" and the "body chemistry" ranges are different and they are both discussed and very clearly stated on pages 86 and 87 of his book, CLOD, but everyone I know refuses to see them and is not able to understand them when I explain it to them. Yet, to me it's as clear as the nose on my face. Dr. Reams even gives examples of the "pattern" ranges throughout his book. He states this is range B, C, D ,or E and then gives an equation.
"Choose Life or Death" is not a textbook and it was not written with that in mind but it is the key to the RBTI. I have talked with "teachers" and they will tell me that the CLOD is just a good read that they never really studied it. You must read the CLOD as you would read a math book, one word at a time, one sentence at a time. It's filled with "pearls" to understand the RBTI". Do you disagree with him?
The link for this quote is: http://www.heavenlywater.com/catalog/news.php?article=13
The menstrual symptom of dropping clots is common for a "re-mineralization" effect. I had a similar occurrence with drinking nettle infusion. Now I have very light cramps and less flow. I drink a few cups of nettle infusion throughout the month and during. Nettle has a favorable balance of cal/mag, Vit. K, and a boatload of other trace minerals.
Uncle Rico (Challen) " We also need some way to make us look official. Like we got all the answers."
Kip (Matt) "How 'bout some gold bracelets?"
hheeehheehheeeehee
Matt,
regarding food allergies, I meant Dorie's case specifically, where apparantly her food allergies /intolerances did not show in the numbers (Challen recommended her to eat more corn) but was more significant than her numbers being in range (if they were, or if not, the food allergies / intolerances made Challen's recommendations rather harmful than helpful.) That's why I said the numbers may not be the end all. I'm only guessing with limited info here, of course. I don't mean to discredit your experiment at all, btw, I just mean to say that if you take a step back and read your posts with the eyes of one uninitiated, you will see how the wording can be eye-brow-raising.
Hans
I had positive blood tests for food allergies. bananas shut down my airway. I now eat those and everything else I was truly allergic to. an allergy is anything over a .35 on the blood test. I scored over 75 on ragweed. Yet this year I can eden touch ragweed and have ZERO effect.
For me, it seems to work.
Hans
I had positive blood tests for food allergies. bananas shut down my airway. I now eat those and everything else I was truly allergic to. an allergy is anything over a .35 on the blood test. I scored over 75 on ragweed. Yet this year I can eden touch ragweed and have ZERO effect.
For me, it seems to work.
Moi –
Thanks for weighing in regarding my question on RBTI's perspective on the effect of other lifestyle elements on health. You mentioned that "the numbers will show a pattern of energy loss if you are living too fast." Can you describe in more detail what you mean by "living too fast?"
Also, it sounds like you have had a positive experience with RBTI. Can you share how difficult it would be to stick to if you travel a lot? I am on the road for work all the time and sourcing my food is always a challenge. I'm just wondering if it would be a realistic proposition for me. (Matt – any thoughts you have on this would be appreciated as well.)
Ty
Sirch and others who are interested in whether RBTI clears up anxiety depression issues.
The answer is YES!
I have suffered from depression, anxiety, and a whole heap of other emotional issues most of my life. First depression was around 14. Used drugs and alcohol extensively thru my teens to mask my symptoms but gave all that up 15 years ago. I tried various different diets and never got relief, some of them actually made me worse until I found RBTI. I actually started RBTI because I was back to having panic attacks and dealing with a lot of fear, depression and lack of motivation. RBTI has given me a personality change. I have gone from a fearful person who was kinda angry and hid away much of the time to a generous open light hearted person. Rather than seeing problems I now see solutions. I am calm and relax a large portion of the time. For me I always knew that something physical was up because I noticed my anxiety would be strongest at certain points of the day. Especially around 11am in the morning. Then by the evening I would feel quite relaxed and peaceful but the next day around 10am i would start feeling kinda panicky again. That's because your sugar levels naturally rise in the evening but I didn't know this before I started RBTI. All of my friends have commented in the change in me.
The beginning of starting RBTI was a little bit of a roller coaster until my sugars started to stabilize but I can't recommend this program enough because I truly was desperate by the time I found it and to be honest with you. I'm not even sure I would be here now if it hadn't been for RBTI.. It gave me my life back !
Tactile-
You would have to speak to Challen about how to get the testing supplies overseas. He has worked with many Europeans over the years. I'll try to get him on Skype. That would be a be a big help for him, and others outside the U.S.
Betty-
I've lost belly fat already. Having trouble keeping my shorts on when I swim in the ocean. One of the people that turned me onto this (my future lab partner, sorry Deb) lost roughly 15 pounds and is a 40-year old female that looks outstanding. I haven't heard of anyone gaining belly fat doing this, but could see how it would be possible if you were really pounding bread, fried food, ice cream and the like as opposed to less pornographic foods.
I wouldn't worry about getting it wrong either. You'll probably do just fine. If you find it's not working out and you are having trouble maintaining numbers in the A range, then you could take the next step and learn it in person. But most do not require doing so. They rave about it over the phone to me all the time – having no idea what Challen even looks like.
Hawaii Girl-
I don't make enough to need a tax write off!!! Maybe someday :)
Marco-
Wanted to thank you for your excellent comment the other day about self-experimentation and all that. Really good stuff.
Right now I drink a lot of milk because you can't drink that much water! I use it for hydration. But yes, it is of course very rich in minerals.
Sylwester-
I didn't want to introduce some of those things too early. Just like someone pointed out the other day, some people rush to start changing their diets around every time they see a new idea. I'm trying to introduce this stuff and see for myself first before making everyone else jump on the bandwagon. Be interested sure, but don't go all in. I will try to lay out some of the basic guidelines soon. It's not that complex. It sounds a lot more specific than it is. It is not too far off from the standard American diet in many ways.
Eric-
Awesome comment. We are all thinking about these things of course.
As far as Okinawans are concerned, it's my understanding that they don't eat very much pork at all, their longevity is partly attributable to their small size, and that the population is getting increasingly less healthy, not more healthy.
There's also no doubt that many can get away with eating all kinds of things and live to ripe old ages without health problems. Others seem to get ill no matter what they eat. Recovery strategies and excellent health maintenance are two very different things. That's how I guess I justify looking into specific approaches that demonize all kinds of foods that entire populations eat daily and maintain good health doing so. (If you recommended Paleo to someone, then clearly you are already open to this logic, as there were many fabulously healthy grain and dairy eaters out there too – Okinawans eat a predominantly grain-based diet for example).
Stress-
It can definitely throw the numbers out of kilter. Challen has mentioned everything from changes in elevation and jet lag causing big changes in body chemistry. He does feel that the biggest factor in how a person responds to stress is their mineral supply. I cannot disagree with this at all, and have believed this for years.
Charles-
That's why it's read as jibberish by the unitiated. It doesn't make any sense and reads like a memoir of a schizophrenic if it is not read as Challen says it should be. Without a reference point however, it just reads as silliness – a bunch of commandments and instructions without ample explanation. There is nothing in it that would convince anyone of anything. But I guess if taken incredibly seriously as Challen has read it, it is a real gem.
Deb-
I think nametags would be better than gold bracelets. All laminated and what not. We gotta look legit man.
Ty-
Very hard to follow while traveling.
Energy loss foods-
Pork, shellfish, skin fish, nuts, chocolate
Those appear to be the biggies. And of those, only pork requires obsessive avoidance (like vegans and Rabbis would both call you paranoid).
Pipparoni-
Thanks for the comment. Even I have noticed a personality shift, eager to talk to and meet a lot of people in person when I couldn't really be bothered by that in the past. I hope you live happily ever after haha!!!
Thanks Pip! I think you two need an assistant btw.
Matt: can my nametag say 'grandma'?
When I did the milk diet, I grew about a quarter of an inch. That remineralization shit really works.
holy cow, personality changes?! i need that. haha. my husband jokes that i don't really like people b/c i hate big crowds and people in general make me crazy. i used to have extreme anxiety/panic at even stepping outside my own front door (unless it was to go back to my parents' house where i felt relatively safe–college and a few years beyond). i am long over that, but i think i still have what the commercials/big pharma have dubbed "social anxiety."
also, i was rummaging around on the net yesterday looking for more info about remineralizing the body and i came across a site that is quite similar to rbti stuff, but i did not see mention of rbti. they test the ph, but i think that's it. they use a special drink and baths to remineralize and heal and the diet they suggest is similar to rbti with no white stuff etc, but they emphasize limit or cut out "acidic foods," which i always thought was a bunch of bs. anyway, i might try the drink b/c they claim it gives them a lot of energy and it's made of fresh lemon juice, black strap molasses, pickling lime (2 T. per gallon of distilled water) and a pinch of epsom salts. in about 8 oz of distilled water. people are claiming diseases, cancers, skin issues etc. being healed/cured with this protocol. thought that might be of interest to some who are not yet ready to jump into rbti b/c just trying out a mineral drink would be easy.
the baths are made up with peroxide, epsom salts and sometimes baking soda. fyi. oh, and i have been drinking fresh lemon juice in warm distilled water every morning before breakfast for a little while now (it's actually something i used to do b/c it was "the thing" to do) but it's really great. today i added a T. of molasses and was pleasantly surprised by the taste. i can't stand the stuff in milk or by itself, but with the lemon it was delightful. haha.
MATT-
1. Nuts – does that include seeds? i.e. sesame seeds (unhulled) are rich in minerals such as calcium etc..
2. Is meat necessary? I feel better on a more vegan diet, meat eaten with carbs makes me bloated and always have (unless I eat a tiny tiny portion).
If eating meat, though, would help my health issues I'd willingly force it down lol
3. What to drink besides skim milk? I'm lactose intolerant and my body doesn't agree with milk proteins either. Never drink with foods though, but between meals I down some water and herbal teas.
4. The best home made ice cream (in an ice cream maker) is mango and some coconut milk. Pure bliss (and out of context..)
Heck, I need to contact Challen.. I'd like to get rid of some issues Original had as well…
DOREY-
Did you eat corn becuause Challen said so, knowing how you would react to it? Did you explain to him how you woud react?
Beth
So what does Challen think about using foods (specifically coconut water, whole milk and orange juice) to provide minerals in ones everyday diet? Does he prefer the supplements instead?
Wise Traditions conference:
I'm with grass fed momma on this. The tickets are expensive! Pricing the whole thing out: airfare, hotel, plus food could easily get closer to $1000. That's a bit steep. I'm not sure I'm going to buy tickets at that price level. How about we create our own 180 meetup where we can hang out at somebody's house and have Matt cook food?
On the whole pork thing. I remember Chief saying he didn't touch the stuff. I was never really sure why.
last week i increased my daily mineral intake via blackstrap molasses (3-4 spoonfuls a day, usually mixed with store whole milk) and some strange things are happening. I have these weird headaches that last a few seconds, my head feels like i'm swimming (like i'm sick and have taken too much nasal decongestant or something) a couple hours after i take a few spoon fulls, i'm sleeping deeper and consequently waking up feeling hung over. my sense of smell is also off. it's like when you are sick and you can constantly smell something a little off. it's not the air, it's totally me. overall, i feel like i'm sick, but i don't have aches or pains. my throat was also killing me up until today. it felt like i hadn't used my throat muscles in weeks and all of a sudden they are working again. really strange and kind of painful. my nose feels more animated, as well. when i breath in it widens itself against the change in air current automatically. i've never experience that in my life and feels kinda weird.
on the flip side I'm thinking more clearly, my sex drive has increased dramatically, the time my body wants to go to bed is finally consistent (ever since taking the blackstrap i've fallen asleep around 11 every night), my ability to remain creative has leveled out, and my energy levels have increased quite a bit. my teeth also feel super strong yet my molars hurt. now, last time i went through an entire bottle of blackstrap i noticed my teeth in my lower jaw had widened a fair amount, and my molars. I chalked it up to all the sugar I was intaking, never once considering it was the mineral content of the molasses. that would be awesome if my jaw continued to widen because i hate wearing retainers even if it is only once a week.
-Anonymous
Wow…..water is bad?I have a condition where I make too much urine and so drink water all day long.This is why I always felt that I never had a cavity in my whole life.Was thinking the water was mega dosing minerals.
Lately I have been eating a pint of Hagen Daz every night.I also gave up my diet sodas and now drink regular soda all day.I actually feel better….WTF???
Wolfstriked,
I am not convinced sugar is all that bad. I ate tons and tons of it growing up. I never had a health problem, never had cavities, and never had any belly fat.
In fact I didn't have any health issues until I went through an extended low-carb/high-exercise/high-stress phase that was very stressful on my body. It is still recovering.
I've always been far more suspicious of the junk in diet sodas than of plain sugar. My guess is that sugar just really isn't that bad and is even beneficial in certain contexts… as long as your body is healthy, you're getting the nutrients you need, and you're not depleting your body in the long term.
Great discussion. Really enjoying the back and forth.
Matt –
You mentioned that RBTI would be very difficult to follow while traveling. I read in Reams' CLOD book that the better your numbers are the less stringent you have to be on the diet, and conversely, the worse your numbers are, the more stringent you have to be on the diet. This leads me to infer that for health maintenance purposes (vs for addressing an acute disease), there would be some benefit to following an RBTI protocol to the best of one's ability even if compliance to it was not 100%. Do you get the impression from Challen that following the foods-to-avoid list and following some of the general priciples of RBTI would be beneficial to the extent iit was followed, for maintaining and preventing disease?
Incidentally, I called Challen and ordered the test kit so I would be able to get a read on my numbers. Very excited to see where I'm at.
Ty
I've been thinking lately about what causes people to start developing health problems/gain belly fat/move away from A/B range… whatever.
My theory here is that it takes a lot. I've been through majorly stressful times in the past in my life but I've always bounced right back once the stress is over. Not so this time and I think it's because I pushed my body too hard with all my health/exercise obsession. The body can take a lot, but there is a limit. Beyond this point things begin to deteriorate and the body does the best it can.
Of course once in this state, I agree with Matt that restoring health is much more difficult than maintaining it.
AaronF,
I went through the same as you… also a couple other diets toppled on top of that. It definitely takes alot of time to get to a healthy state.
I am pretty intrigued by this Method… i still cant see why he recommends corn oil?
Three years ago i cut out pork for a whole year… then started eating it again, and didn't notice a real difference in my health. I usually don't eat much anyways… except when i go out for breakfast or go to chipotle and get carnitas.
What does Challen think about smoking high quality cigs and drinking moderate amounts of Red wine and Micro brews Matt?
All this is pretty interesting stuff… especially the palate widening effects, and popping cavaties out!
Can't wait to hear more about it!
troy
i am wondering the same thing as Ty. mostly because i would like to try this with my 3 year old who can be pretty darn stubborn and because we are taking our pigs to the butcher in 2 weeks. :)
curious to know what is in the kit you ordered, ty?
have lots of other questions about challen's RBTI that hopefully matt will address in an upcoming post–how to distill water, when to drink water, best times of day to eat certain foods, when to eat in general.
thanks!
Regarding the WT conference…
I had planned to go to meet 180 peeps too. But I have no idea where I'm gonna be come November yet, so not sure if I'll make it. If I'm still in Atlanta I can probably go, but would definitely be road-trippin' it, not flying. I enjoy (prefer) road trips anyway – as long as I have good company. Don't mind flying – just rather avoid the whole airport thing.
Just an idea… depending on where peeps live, some of you could maybe do carpools and split the gas expense? And maybe even get just two hotel rooms – women in one, men in the other – and split the cost? That is… if there's no one who lives in or near Dallas who would be willing to host 180 peeps :-)
Anyway, in light of this RBTI stuff (assuming all goes well), it'll definitely make for interesting discussion at the conference among Wise Tradition folks lol! Well, assuming that's what Matt's topic of discussion will be there.
Ty, How much did the testing kit run you from Challen, and what all was included?
Let's start by introducing myself a bit.
Years ago my Crohn's played up again, got hospitalized, walked out of there and half a year later my condition was so bad that I needed immediate blood transfusions, but still refused. After many tries I started to believe I could not poison my body back to health with medicine, and started looking at the best alternative I could find; RBTI. I told this to make sure everyone understands that I had all the motivation in the world.
So I got the kit, got the textbook by Dr. Beddoe and started to try and make some sense out of it. Back then I did not know what to get where and failed to find the easy way to get things to Europe. But after a few months the Doc in the hospital did not have the desire to see me anymore. Crohn's is easy, no matter what others say. If you understand what to do and you can test yourself, you can 'predict' and correct any and all inconveniences.
Despite doing this for many years and working with numerous people, I will remain one of the people who did not crack the code of RBTI as Matt wrote it nicely, but I can recognize it.
And I can only confirm that there are so many out there that do RBTI, but just don't get everything (like me). But after years of study I can tell when someone gets it and someone does not.
Still, like the most gifted person in RBTI said: I would rather go to a beginning RBTI consultant than a senior medic.
Sure you will find people who died while under consultation of a RBTI practitioner. But they probably went to the medic first, and filled their bodies with drugs to poison them back to health. Who said they would have lived another year if they did not see them? How many could have been cured by RBTI consultants that died in hospitals?
Let's be fair: we don't know.
Still the one thing that amazes me about this whole blog is that RBTI seems to be a therapy for the hopeless. It is not. It is a lifestyle that should be able to prevent illness.
Simple proof everyone here can see is that Challen himself follows it (causing his lower jaw to expand according to Matt). RBTI gets the credit for it, but Challen is not one of the very sick, is he?
One other thing that is incorrect is that there is no textbook. There are many, even Challen himself sells the 'levels' one to four on his site, which is http://www.heavenlywater.com.
RBTI is a science and an art that not only involves a urine and saliva test, but also pays attention to exercise and stress. The best consultants do understand how that affects the mind, but there are only a handful. Don't know if Challen is one of them.
I am one of the unfortunate people who would like to understand things myself. If others can live with just doing what others say: Bless you! I can't. I needed to learn RBTI to understand it. For the unfortunate who are like me: http://www.rbti.info contains some basics and it explains things in a simple manner without the hocus-pocus.
William
Yes, RBTI is a science. Challen was one of the very sick. He had Leukemia 30 years ago.
Having worked with two different RBTI consultats, I can honestly say the first one almost killed me. He had NO IDEA what to do with the numbers or my diet. After switching to Challen, my program was a complete 180 and I IMEDIATELY began to improve. I dunno about you, but to me that SCREAMS like he knows what he is doing where the other guy was off his rocker.
Lisa
Matt will not be posting information lik ethat. Because it is completely individual. If he posts his program, and another person who is low sugar copies him, they could go into a coma. It's that important that you GO BY THE NUMBERS.
I would not reccomend feeding pork to your children. In fact, getting that 100 percent out of your diet is far more important that anything else.
AS
RBTI is not that difficult to follow while traveling. I even went out to Red Lobster with Challen and did not get any 'contamination.' REALLY it's so easy.
Anonymous
Holy Shit. That's a lot of BSM. Iron is constipating. haha!
Bryan
Coconut water is cool. Sometimes I cook my oatmeal in it, or have some with lunch. Whole milk. Never. We do non organic skim milk. Orange juice is great if your chemistry allows for it. If it doesnt, it usually only takes a couple weeks to get in line enough to include it.
Anonymous up a little higher
ALL NUTS and HARD SEEDS are a complete no no. They are way too hard on digestion. I would reccomend contacting Challen. You won't have trouble with milk. I used to and don't anymore. Yes you do have to eat meat.
Team Smith
I would be careful if I were you. I would not drink epsom salts. The things you mention about that stuff worries me! Yuck.
From the little I have learned so far about RBTI, it seems that lemon water is a critical component. But as a "protein type" (metabolic typing) lemons are supposed to be quite detrimental to my pH. Any thoughts?
EVERYBODY
Matt cannot tell you how to follow the RBTI. It is SOOOO individual! If I were to follow his program, I wouldblack out daily again, and prolly end up dying.
Everyone's body chemistry is DIFFERENT. There is no blanket diet if you are already ill. It's easy to stay healthy, but it's specific to get there!!!!
Anonymous
Metabolic typing is bull shit.
I just went to Challen website for first time and something struck me.He says to stay away from water and then sells minerals?Why not just drink alot of hard water as its loaded with calcium,magnesium.He sells dolomite and lime water which are part of a fish tank enthusiasts arsenal.
And why does he recommend skim milk?
Lisa and Bryan,
Regarding the materials I ordered from Challen: The equipment cost $395. We did not have time to get into each piece of instrumentation that this included, but he said it was everything I would need to do the urine and saliva tests. According to sites like rbti.info, I would imagine this includes the refractometer, pipettes, solutions etc. He said it would take 2 weeks to arrive and also strongly recommended that I purchase some other introductory materials including some books called "The Only Health Guide You'll Ever Need," "The Secret is in the Diet," and his Level I book. (Cost was an additional $85 for these 3 items.) He said these pieces would walk me through exactly how to go about testing myself and deciphering my numbers. He then said I could call him, read him my numbers, and he would interpret them (I believe his fee was $25 per 15 minutes). I asked him if he was able to take me on as a client or if he was too busy. He told me that he was fine to take me on since he does not generally have to work with people on an ongoing basis, but rather guides them for a while by interpreting their numbers every couple weeks, after which time they are able to "take it from there." He definitely was in favor of using the RBTI as a means of health preservation in addition to using it as a tool to rectify more serious conditions. I don't have any glaring health issues, but I can keep you guys posted with how things go if you'd like.
Ty
Ty,
I would love it if you kept us updated as you work with Challen. I am in a very similar situation so I am very interested in your experience.
While I don't have any super serious issues, RBTI seems like a good tool set for the smaller issues I do have…blood sugar regulation and inflammation. Provided it helps me I may try to branch out and help my wife (utter lack of energy) and my mom (diagnosed with Chronic Fatigue and other health issues)
Moi — thank you for really clearing that up. Perhaps you can expand on your views regarding metabolic typing beyond just one word.
Matt what do you think about metabolic typing and specifically the havoc lemon juice might play with a protein type?
@Moi
Really? i basically have one with every meal. i don't think i'd increase it beyond that amount, tho. speaking of constipation, i'm currently not eating like i want to (white rice and ground beef haha. i'm super poor at the moment) so i've been having problems, but it's cleared up since the molasses was added in.
@Kelly
Depression, in my experience, is largely due to diet. Hell, I've had confidence problems, anxiety, and frustration issues all disappear because of a change in diet. External factors were merely triggers that exposed my imbalance. These days I rarely feel down, and if i do, it's something i can think my way out of. Prior, it was an uncontrollable thing that would persist even after i tried to rationalize with myself.
-Anonymous
Can anyone point to some sort of eating guide for this? I feel like I am getting more and more confused with each post.
thanks for responding, ty and moi! i appreciate your input.
Hi Moi!
I think it was Ty (aka TJK) who was asking if it was travel-friendly. And maybe someone else did too. At least I don't think I did?? lol! But that is good to hear :-)
Anyway, thanks for all of your input. It really helps a lot! Yes, it does sound like it's pretty simple and easy to follow. I can stick to anything as long as it's important to me – and my health and the health of those I care about is very important to me. That's the main reason for my interest in RBTI – to help them (and others) restore their health. I'd gladly serve as guinea pig for them – hopefully getting my numbers in the A range in the process and maintain there.
With everything that I take an interest in, I always feel the need to learn it and understand it inside and out. And knowing the "whys" behind the details of it is a huge motivator for me in adopting it as a lifestyle, in which case, I can with no problem. So for those reasons, I usually extensively research and experiment with these things. But, this time, (to avoid misinformation out there) I'm trying not to do my usual researching, in lieu of Matt's real life experience with it (and others like you). I want to watch and see where Matt's research/experiment goes. Then go from there.
It's really great to hear from you and the others who have real life experience with RBTI.
Regarding pork…
Aaron,
I recall Chief saying that too about pork. At the time, it reminded me that my grandmother, who was all or mostly Native American, never ate pork either. The reason it stands out for me is because they raised pigs on my dad's family's farm (that was my grandfather's influence–who was not Native American). But interestingly, it was well known that my grandmother would not eat pork or anything that had pork in it. She even refused to cook it. I'm going to ask my dad about it. Just curious to see if he knows what her reasons were.
Anyway, very interesting.
Moi,
Thanks for some of the great insight. I had a couple questions for you: How long have you been working with Challen? I'm a traveling sales rep and am on the road quite a lot. I am interested in trying to identify some impactful pro-RBTI tenants/guidelines that are reasonably achievable while traveling. Conversely, it would be nice to know what kinds of things I don't have to worry so much about. For example, the variables I encounter on the road include hotel rooms (air quality), water quality/flouridation (affects showers and drinking water), sleep schedule, time zones, restaurant food quality etc. I figure that although my situation is more of an extreme, most everybody lives life in such a way that utter compliance to a program like RBTI would be tough and knowing where one can flex without compromising all benefit would be helpful.
Ty
What's a "skin fish"?
So what's with the lemon water? Is that recommended as a tonic (as long as you're not hypoglycemic)? How often and how much for a maintenance dose? And are you supposed to do a big dose at first as a kickstarter?
@Anonymous – Depression (and other mental/psychological symptoms like anxiety, anger, etc.) are the toughest ones to deal with for me so far. Thanks for the encouragement. It took me 3 years to decide that all this isn't just me being a terrible or weak person (despite what others said).
Just another reason I want to heal. It'll be a good day when I'm not this depressed/overwhelmed/anxious; it'll be a *great* day when I can prove that all of this wasn't in my head. :)
To others asking for specifics: Matt and Moi keep saying that there is no general protocol for everyone when you're healing, so I'm confused about why everyone keeps wanting to know how to start.
Is it that we're having trouble sifting through what is part of an individual healing protocol and what is part of universal maintenance guidelines?
Thanks for mentioning that again Kelly.
Please everyone DO NOT RUSH OUT AND START GUZZLING LEMONADE AND BLACKSTRAP MOLASSES!!!!
This is not a one size fits all program
I would also like to know what skin fish are. It conjures strange images.
Matt, if a tax write off isn't an incentive, then there's still the offer of room and board and your own tour guide groupie.
Matt, funny cult/Waco reference with the new bio picture. I thought that was you with cool glasses for a moment, but realized it wasn't when the file's name said "koresh."
Matt ~
Hello again. I noticed you've taken painstaking measures to answer numerous detailed questions from others, but have passed over the simple one I asked you (twice).
Since it's very relevant, I'll try again:
The commenter 'Original RBTIer' directly identified herself as the case you referenced in your previous post on hypoglycemia.
In the interest of clarity — Is this true?
Taylor/Hobson
The loss of energy foods pork, shellfish, nuts and chocolate are also in the list of no-no foods for those with histamine intolerance. Histamine is hardly present in fresh meat and shellfish though, but increases as they mature and getting older.
There are many other intolerances as well, e.g. oxalates and salicylates. I don't know what no-no foods are on those lists. But I'm sure there is something specific like this that causes loss of energy in some people.
And yes, the Okinawans get less healthy while at the same time eating more grains now.
Exactly what in the pigs make us acidic and acidic where? Is this the popular acid/base balance theory we are talking about?
I posted this half an hour ago in a single post, but even though it was in the 4096 character limit it does not show. Sorry if I waste your time by making a double entry.
After discussing this blog with some others, things became very clear: they had no idea what RBTI is or does. Sure it says that you need a bunch of instruments, and can do wonders for the hopeless, but that was about it..
We also have the stories about people that have been ?killed? or harmed because they followed RBTI. To shed some light on how that can happen to a beginning consultant, I would like to make some things clear.
First is that in RBTI an advice should ALWAYS follow the numbers and should not be a general one.
However, there are some general guidelines, like taking lemon water (10% lemon juice and 90% distilled water), plain distilled water and taking 1/20th of your body weight in as water / lemon water. For this post I will just use these and forget the rest.
Numbers will be written as followed:
Brix Urine pH (UpH) /Saliva pH (SpH) Conductivity Albumin Nitrate Nitrogen (NN) / Ammonia Nitrogen (AN)
Brix is the total dissolved solids in the urine, including part of the salts (conductivity), but will for the most part be carbohydrates if everything is normal.
UpH and SpH means the ratio of cations over anions, NOT their total amount!
Conductivity is the measurement of resistance in the urine, which is for the most part made up of salts.
Albumin is the cloudiness caused by particles in the urine. Particles are usually for a substantial part caused by old cells that have been replaced in the system and are expelled through the urine. Some also call it ?Cell Debris?, but it is not only cell debris.
NN is proteins in, AN is proteins out. NN should be higher unless you don’t get proteins (fasting) or there is something weird like eating 5 banana’s a day for a longer time?
The equation for perfect health is CS + 1.5 6.4/6.4 6-7C .04M 3/3
CS means Common Sense. Even though I will not go in to that now, I will say that whoever does not understand that we should eat a wide variety of foods, is not there yet.
Rest is in the other post!
This is the follow up of my other post and I will try to explain a bit how someone may get harmed or hurt by following example:
Now, just imagine we have a 40 year old male for a first test who is 2.0 6.2/6.2 60C 4M++ 16/10.
Everything is high and we are a beginning consultant.
So for the first time in this 160 pound person’s life we put him on a ?normal? amount of water which would be 8 pounds a day. Every part of the numbers would be diluted, except the pH’s which are ratio’s and will go up a bit. Let’s say that every other number would be divided by 5 if he would be in the office a week later:
.4 6.4/6.4 12C 4M++ 3/2
But there is also a chance he will be dead by then because the Brix, NN and AN are deadly low. The water may have killed him by lowering his energy too much.
Now we know that, we go back in time and give him lemon water. Because high conductivity causes the cholesterol in the arteries to stick to the walls, we know that this person has a huge chance of a piece becoming too big and turning loose.
On the other hand the UREA’s (combined number of NN and AN) are dangerously high because the UREA’s thicken the blood.
Combine these two and you have an heart attack waiting to happen. Now we give him lemon water causing an increase in health of the liver, creating lots and lots of new building blocks for cells that should have been replaced a while ago, and the body starts to make all these new cells and throws out the (parts of the) old ones in the blood, causing it to be thicker? Dead before the next consult.
In this case the man would probably have had a heart attack anyway, but if the consultant understood RBTI on a level that I do, it could have been prevented. And I don’t even come close to being as good as Challen is (trust me, I am not being modest here).
However, if we keep in mind that RBTI means Reams Biological Theory of Ionization and is engineered by Dr. Reams, who followed it since he invented it till he died, it may not come as a shock that I don’t believe it is only for the hopeless (even though I am fully aware that Dr. Reams had serious problems because of his damaged liver during the war). But he put his kids on RBTI since they were born, and they never got sick.
The other funny thing is that not Challen, but Dr. Beddoe (see http://www.advancedideals.org) was Dr. Reams his star student and he wrote a textbook about RBTI, that Dr. Reams called ?a stroke of genius?. I hope some here will understand that I have a hard time believing we should say only Challen does real RBTI. He may or may not be the best, but no not the only one.
Trying to understand a bit about RBTI will improve your health a bit.
Not trying will give no improvement (even though obviously there are other ways).
If Dr. Reams did not believe RBTI is beyond his understanding, why did he teach himself? Why did he like a relative inexpensive textbook by Dr. Beddoe?
Why did he call his book CHOOSE life or death?
Brock and Lorelei (and anyone else who was wondering)-
Skin fish have no scales, just skin. Catfish are one example. This page gives a pretty decent list of which fish have scales and which don't:
http://www.islamic-laws.com/fish.htm
Moi,
Looking forward to hearing from you soon. Matt's e-mail states he
will pass along my address. :)
Betty
AS,
About sharing those links — no worries. I do that kind of stuff all the time too XD Oops!
This all reminds me of my guitar tech friend. You can learn how to do a guitar setup if you put the time and effort into it, but to get good at it you're going to need to spend a LOT of time thinking about it and doing it, and there's also a huge investment in tools.
Also, no two guitars are the same. You can have buzzing, for example, but there are a lot of things that can cause that. The neck could be bowed, and it might need a truss rod adjustment, or the neck might need to be clamped for a day or two if the truss rod isn't working right, the fretboard could be humped up somewhere on the board and you might have to ramp the frets by leveling and recrowning them, there could be a twist in the neck so it's higher on the bass side than the treble side, the saddles could be too low, the neck might have to be shimmed or re-fitted —
— buzzing is a simple problem, but there are a million things that could be going wrong, and without seeing the guitar itself and examining it, there's no way to dial in what the exact problem is.
The guitar tech I know is also really, REALLY good, which reminds me more of how Matt's talking about Challen.
Guitar setups/repairs are my reference point. I can understand where Matt's coming from with this RBTI stuff. Trying to go gung-ho on this is probably biting off more than you can chew for almost everyone who would try it. It doesn't mean you can't do it, but it would take serious time and effort studying it to get a grasp on it. Just like doing a setup on a guitar. Adjusting a truss rod is not difficult at all, but you have to completely understand why you're making the adjustment and how it plays into the bigger picture as a whole.
Drinking water at a certain time is about as easy as taking a piss. But dialing in that time an individual has to drink it, and understanding why they have to drink it, and what effect that has on them as a whole considering the entire program — that takes skill. Challen might not be God but if he has skill in this area that deserves to be respected. I don't worship my guitar tech friend but his work really is pretty fucking outstanding and I've never seen better work; it's hard not to get a little zealous when you appreciate a high level of skill so much.
So for me, I'm trying to let go of this RBTI stuff until I figure out what I want to do about it. There're people who get their guitars repaired and people who repair guitars for other people. I will say I like the idea of this RBTI stuff becoming more or less readily accessible to everyone in the country at some point or another — it's kind of like, not everyone needs to be a farmer, but if we had more local farms everything would probably be a lot more sustainable. If there were a handful of people in every state who knew what they were doing with RBTI like Challen does, that would be light years ahead of where things are now.
And I think that'd be fantastic. So at the very least I'm really appreciative that Matt's getting the word out on this guy and trying to give him the recognition he deserves. No need to go crazy about it and just blindly 'hop on the bandwagon' but in the same sense, though I don't worship Matt, I think he has a lot of pretty brilliant ideas, and I've turned a lot of people on 180 Degree Health because I really believe his ideas are worth listening to and that getting it out to a wider audience could potentially help a lot of people.
Cool stuff.
William,
Thanks for sharing that. That was a great example and it really clarified this whole thing to me. You can try to fix a problem one way, but you can get that 'bump in the rug' thing and it just creates a problem somewhere else. What I like about this RBTI stuff is it sounds so similar to me to guitar work, basically because it's a system that uses direct measurements and observation to diagnose and fix a problem. In other words, the scientific method.
That's what's so exciting and revolutionary about this. To me, being able to work with a person's health like a guitar — being able to run tests on them and dial in what the exact problem is, with no guess-work — is incredibly fascinating.
And correct me if I'm wrong, but the parallel is just too strong for me: to do a good setup, you really have to understand how the guitar works as a whole. Perfect example: most people will think that they can lower the action by tightening the truss rod. Really, once the truss rod is set where it needs to be, you have to work with the nut, the saddles, the frets and the neck angle. It's the lemon water of guitar setups: people using it thinking it's a cure-all, when in reality you have to understand what is causing the problem on the guitar and have the observational ability to look at the instrument as a whole.
It's like that old saying. If the only tool you've got is a hammer, every problem's going to start looking like a nail. Every once in a while I fuck something up on my guitar because I'm trying to do something I don't understand how to do.
I can see it's the same with RBTI (no surprise there — universal concept). You have to be able to see the whole picture and take every aspect into consideration, or you can end up making huge errors in judgment.
Again, that's why I'm holding off on RBTI. I really would like to study this but I have so much on my plate (no pun intended…RRARF…get it…yeah. Fuck me)….
I forgot what I was talking about. But yeah, cool stuff :D There could be a new phrase in the future, too, for someone who's a 'gearhead' but with nutritional stuff. And you'd be able to say that now because it's entering the realm of mechanical reality with these measurements and legitimately scientific approach.
Or you could just use the word 'geek.'
I think I'm getting a little too excited. I wonder if Challen's ever seen someone who's main problem with fluctuations in their numbers was nerding out so hard every time he told them what was wrong that they pissed their pants. Maybe only in my imagination.
William
Dr beddoe took advantage of his closeness with Reams after reams died.
The notion reams singled him out is based on a lie
William
Dr beddoe took advantage of his closeness with Reams after reams died.
The notion reams singled him out is based on a lie
@Jib:
on one hand your guitar story does not relate to this at all, but on the other hand your example is just as perfect as can be.
And like with guitars: there will be people who will have others tune them, but there are others like you who would spend time on learning how things work and how to recognize even small mistakes and adjust accordingly.
Both of these groups of people will have their place, but you would not have someone with limited tuning experience mess with a rockstar's guitar the night before the show, would you? Too much depends on it.
Now ask yourself, if you have a critical health condition, would you go to a beginning consultant who would does not ask advice from a senior consultant? I would not.
But if someone has no critical health issues, and the beginning consultant takes the time to explain why things work the way he / she says they work AND can recognize his / her mistakes, I believe there is a place for both.
@Moi
I am unfamiliar with that info, and so was wrong to state that Dr. Beddoe was his star student as a fact. Thank you for sharing!
William
If you look at the letter that is supposedly reams last words you will notice reams did not sign it.
Ty
T hereare a few things to look out for and you can eat out. I can't type it all out on my phone here. Don't worry about all that other stuff. Just get outside for some fresh air occasionally! Tall to challen. He eats out at restaurants quite a lot.
Betty
I've emailed you.
Kellt
T hankyou!
Jib
I 'ma nerd too and learning it. Been hanging out with challen. Pretty awesome.
Jib,
Thanks for your thoughts. Do you take time to play the guitar some too? :-)
Jib wrote:
"AS,
About sharing those links — no worries. I do that kind of stuff all the time too XD Oops!"
Yeah, it's hard for me not to share… and to not get excited about stuff like this. I hesitated to post that link to the fish page because of the religious nature of that website. But just ignore that part – a good (non-religious) list like that is hard to find :-)
Jib wrote:
"I will say I like the idea of this RBTI stuff becoming more or less readily accessible to everyone in the country at some point or another — it's kind of like, not everyone needs to be a farmer, but if we had more local farms everything would probably be a lot more sustainable. If there were a handful of people in every state who knew what they were doing with RBTI like Challen does, that would be light years ahead of where things are now.
And I think that'd be fantastic. So at the very least I'm really appreciative that Matt's getting the word out on this guy and trying to give him the recognition he deserves. No need to go crazy about it and just blindly 'hop on the bandwagon' but in the same sense, though I don't worship Matt, I think he has a lot of pretty brilliant ideas, and I've turned a lot of people on 180 Degree Health because I really believe his ideas are worth listening to and that getting it out to a wider audience could potentially help a lot of people."
Yes, my sentiments exactly. While I don't worship Matt (or anyone), I do have a great deal of respect for him and his research/writing skills – and definitely his open mind. And in the same respect, though I don't have the same religious beliefs as Challen, I can certainly appreciate his work as well. Religion aside, he clearly has a true passion for and belief in RBTI. And seeing it work time and time again has to make him feel great.
Jib wrote:
"…being able to run tests on them and dial in what the exact problem is, with no guess-work — is incredibly fascinating."
That fascinates me too!
William wrote:
"…but there are others like you who would spend time on learning how things work and how to recognize even small mistakes and adjust accordingly."
That would be me. That's what makes it hard for me to not go poking around lol :-)
Moi wrote:
"I 'ma nerd too and learning it. Been hanging out with challen. Pretty awesome."
Maybe that's the solution to my need-to-research dilemma, eh? lol :-)
AS – glad to see the Jewfish (whatever that is) is Halal :).
anyone heard of Bob Hedges at re-mineralize.com who does rbti? or is he one of the fakers? he has all of the supplies, too. here's the link:
http://re-mineralize.com/supplies-supplements/
but he believes in eating a raw veg diet mostly juicing, so he lost me there. haha.
Moi —
Still waiting for your explanation as to why metabolic typing is "bull shit."
Anonymous
What kind of explanation are you looking for? I could ramble on but to save us both what do you want to know?
Team smith
No one knows the numbers or diet like challen.
AS
Challen will teach anyone!
will challen still teach anyone, or did his experience with Matt turn him sour on taking students?
I think I ruined it for everyone Danimal.
aww shucks!
i haven’t scoured the recent comments like i usually do,
but i put in a request to work with Steve Day in kentucky who runs and rbti ministry (mostly to learn high brix) and he hasn’t responded to me. i wonder if it’s cuz i mentioned you in my inquiry and maybe the community talks to each other.
Moi — simple. Tell us why its bullshit. Is that easy enough? No one asked you to ramble.
this blog used to be cool
Sure. here is simple. Its a load because the theory doesn't consider how the body actually works.
RE: Purchasing RBTI Kits
For those of you looking to purchase a RBTI testing kit — $400 is not required.
(Details on the prices of individual components here.
All told, you can purchase a complete testing kit for around $150 at the high end.
Please note that individuals making their living from RBTI will be purchasing these same supplies in bulk at wholesale, for pennies on the dollar.
If you're putting down $400 for a kit, you're paying at least a $200-$300 retail markup.
(Should I add, 'For everything else, there's M******card'?)
Taylor/Hobson
Taylor
Ummm. No. Not true.
You can put together a shit kit if you want to piecemeal, but it is not the same thing. The refractometer alone, a good one (the cheap ones are no good) costs close to 150.
Yes, Challen gets a wholesale price for his test kits, but his wholesale price is a lot higher than 150.
Can I ask why you are so intent to tear down the rbti when you have not even tried it?
I came here to Challen's office to tweak something, and he found the problem and turned it right around. I am watching people come in and out of here allday long who were dying of something or very ill from another, and they feel awesome. In fact, there was a woman here who was dying in her 20s of breast cancer. She went to see reams in his day, and she is still alive today! She's in her 50's and just started coming to challen to tweak her health a little, and maintenance. Sounds pretty awesome to me.
I don't understand why you are trying to make Challen out to be a money monger. He is anything but! I have only seen him do for people since i have been here! In more ways than the rbti.
Now he knows this. He has a knowledge that no one else has. He needs to eat and he has bills. HE HAS EVERY RIGHT TO CHARGE FOR THAT!
What is wrong with people??????
Some are overly cautious/cynical from trusting several others "with the answer" of what'll cure them that ended up never panning out. Some are poor and trying to cut as many corners as possible. Some are physically healthy but still have psychological issues. Some are just starting their journey. Only a handful here seem to be truly overall healthy for the most part.
-Anonymous
Hey, you Anonymous piece of shit, here is two reasons why metabolic typing to full of fuck.
1. It doesn't get results.
2. We don't understand enough about genetics to make the assumptions metabolic typing does.
P.S.
No need to be a faggot. We know you like the cock. Semen is full of proteins and minerals and vitamins, after all.
-Anonymous
OK, before everyone freaks out over the prices:
conductivity meter, $ 60,-
UREA and pH kit $ 100,-
non-temerature corrected refractometer $ 91.99
What is missing? pH color cards. Shipping? Temperature correction on the refractometer would be nice and is advicable, but the only one on pikeagri would be $ 95,- more as the one above, so the $ 150,- that Moi said would be not overpriced.
Without wanting to get in to details, but I personally do not like the cheaper Dist4 because I had accuracy problems. So I use the Cardy twin cond (add another $208,-).
As for the teststrips over the pH reagents: pH paper or test strips are fun and give you a quick check if you are on the road, but are not accurate.
Now I understand that this is over the price that Challen asks, and he will probably not have the Cardy Twin Cond, but will have tested the meters he sells and will have one he thinks is best.
The thing is that we make an advice based on the numbers. We need to be able to trust those numbers, and most who tested several cheap meters have found them to be terrible inaccurate.
Challen may make a buck or two on the kit, but I can not believe he can make two hundred.
If you want to save some, consider at least buying he pH-urea kit, since it has a foam block to keep things tidy, the pH reagents and the proper UREA reagents.
William,
That's exactly it. I know how to do some things with guitars, but I'm a novice. My friend has 40+ years of experience. Some repairs are absolutely ugly. A mandolin he got in once – the fretboard was in 11 pieces, several of which were warped, the body was all torn up – it was basically scraps of wood, but the person wanted it all original and put back together because it was an old family heirloom.
Took him 10 months, but he did it. And someone with that kind of experience is the only person to trust with that kind of work. There are lots of guitars in critical condition, and a lot of people will actually say they're beyond repair — he's fixed a lot of guitars that people said were hopeless. He's good! And the only way to get that good is through direct experience, and lots of it.
I think it'd be cool to hook up with an RBTI practicioner, and that's what it seems like it'd have to come down to for me. I find RBTI interesting in the sense that it exists, and reading about it is cool, but I'm too anxious and tired all the time to try pursuing a consultation with someone XD (how's that for irony).
But if I ever pursue it, that's what I'd have to do. And a part of it is stubborness: why put in all the time and effort for RBTI, trying to learn it on your own, when you could just go to someone who knows what they're doing and if you wanted to learn that badly, ask them if they could teach you. I'm trying to apprentice with my friend for guitar tech stuff, and that's how it works.
Why sit there killing myself over how to do something when someone else has already done that, and figured out how to do it, and can teach me. In that sense it's good for you and good for them because you're honoring all their hard work.
Just throwing some more thoughts out there.
AS,
You're welcome :D And Oh yes. I play a lot =)
As for the religion thing, that's tough. I have no problem with it but it turns a lot of people off. Though I guess at the end of the day the people who are open-minded enough to appreciate what you're sharing will appreciate it. Throw something out there that might only resonate with 1 person out of a thousand…but when it reaches that 1 person it all comes together. RRARF is nowhere near the popularity of say, the Primal Blueprint, but it has reached a lot of people who've been open-minded enough to give it a shot and appreciate it for everything it has to offer.
William
Awesome clarification.
William,
P.S. So would you say that getting good equipment and collecting the data yourself and then going over that with an RBTI practicioner is reasonable?
With the tools…I keep bringing up guitars, I know…but it really makes a big difference. Crappy tools just aren't going to cut it.
What I want to know is if you think it's realistic for someone to learn how to test themselves and collect the data on their own, and how much the accuracy of that depends on the skill of testing and the quality of the equipment.
What's your take on this, if you don't mind?
William
I'm wondering how long you have been a tester.where did you learn
@Moi
For me RBTI is a bit different as for most. I have never been interested in becoming the worlds greatest tester or consultant. But what has been by desire was to unite the RBTI community. To help bring them out of the shadow a bit. Provide a website that is easy to read through and provides basic info for the newcomers to get seriously interested. Many have promised help, but besides three who have shown some errors or flaws, none came through. I paid about $ 1000,- for lessons, and probably the same for more books and study guides, have been to the states to learn some more and started to believe about one and a half years ago RBTI would be helped with a piece of software that would make long distance consultation a snap.
So I started to learn how to program and have tested the software, which is now bug-free. During the process of programming there were some that contacted me and wanted advice. So I began telling them that it was easiest for me to use the program (and it really is), and gave them some advice. I was amazed to see how well and how fast that went. Nevertheless, once we get a better consultant who is willing to do on-line consultation with the software, I will quit doing that and focus my time and energy on other things that would help RBTI.
It transformed my life, so if I can I will do my best to help others see the benefits of it as well. (Hopefully) needless to say there is no financial benefit in all of this for me.
But when I see all the good folks in the community downsizing each other and saying the other is not doing as it should, I remember the letter you were referring to and the last wishes of the Doc. I know it was not signed by him, but I truly believe he wanted us to cooperate and work together.
I've heard about this software. Not particulars.can you give a basic synopsis of how that works?
William, maybe I missed it, but what's your website? You should include a link to it in your blogger profile.
——-
I'm trying the lemonade with molasses. It's really good! I realize I don't have numbers to go by, but it's just tasty and refreshing. And cheap.
@ timte:
"The loss of energy foods pork, shellfish, nuts and chocolate are
also in the list of no-no foods for those with histamine intolerance.
Histamine is hardly present in fresh meat and shellfish though, but increases as they mature and getting older."
That's quite interesting!
"And yes, the Okinawans get less healthy while at the same time eating more grains now."
Where did you get that information that "they eat more grains?"
Sounds like paleo reasoning. It seems more likely they are getting
less healthy because they eat a more westernized diet higher in
protein and fat, white flour, additives and all the other junk, and containing a rising amount of refined sugar.
@ Aaronf:
"I've been thinking lately about what causes people to start developing health problems/gain belly fat/move away from A/B range… whatever. My theory here is that it takes a lot. I've been through majorly stressful times in the past in my life but I've always bounced right back once the stress is over. Not so this time and I think it's because I pushed my body too hard with all my ealth/exercise obsession. The body can take a lot, but there is a limit. Beyond this
point things begin to deteriorate and the body does the best it can."
OK, that is quite an extreme case of extrapolating your personal
experience. No, not everyone is exactly like you. For an increasing
number of people it takes very little to push them over the edge
(most likely due to bad luck with their genes and gut flora.) Some
people's body chemistry is messed up from birth. Not all problems are
caused by "health obsession," low-carbing and over-exercising.
@ Anonymous:
Don't bother arguing with Moi. She's met God (=Challen) personally. You can't argue with that kind of people. Unlike us mortals they know
everything.
@ Jib
Even though you haven't had any personal experience with RBTI whatsoever, you already know that it's something like the medicine of the future? wow…
@Brock (or anyone else with an opinion):
Are molasses strictly 'paleo'?
What about ripping the piss out of Richard Nikoley when he acts like a smug git? Is that paleo?
http://freetheanimal.com/2011/07/not-quite-the-human-zoo.html#comment-75158
@ William
Thanks for shedding some light on how this RBTI thing works. There are far too many contradictions here, like "it is very precise and reproductible" vs "it can't be explained / has to be experienced," "it is very easy to learn and do" vs "it can only be practiced effectively in a resort-style setting" etc.
Han's
Moi did meet god!!!!
When she met Challen . I had known her for 5 months. She had tried everything that was available.
She was puking everything she ate back up, Having massive panic attacks, Heart racing, Migraines, Diahhrea, Couldn't get out of bed. She has 2 young children and had to send them away to live with her husbands parents because she couldn't look after them. Was actually depressed to the point of thinking about just giving up and ending it all. Then she met Challen. And within a few weeks my friend Moi sounded like a normal human being. !
So Hans I'm wondering why you are so threatened by Moi and her recovery? Why do you need to attack something you don't understand?
She is trying to help people here.
Moi ~
Hi there. Thanks for your response.
The refractometer alone, a good one (the cheap ones are no good) costs close to 150.
Please indicate the "perfect" refractometer Challen recommends, brand and model. I will be happy to adjust my previous estimates.
It seems you've misunderstood me on a few things.
Before I address the rest of your comment, I'd like to ask: have you previously commented on the RBTI-related posts under a different name/handle?
Your comments are remarkably similar to those of 'Original RBTIer', who has mysteriously fallen silent since you began posting.
Thanks in advance for your clarification.
Taylor/Hobson
William ~
Welcome to the thread.
Just an off-topic note, since I noticed you're having trouble with blocked posts: Blogger has an automatic spam filter that will often block comments that contain numerous URLs/links.
You can try reposting the URLs with the with the formatting and prefixes removed, like this:
websiteDOTcom/blah.html
Another option is putting the links on your blogger profile page.
Hope this helps. :-)
Taylor/Hobson
Tell em Pip! Fear of the unknown can keep you from seeing something right in front of your face. I am keeping an open mind on rbti at thus point. I do feel it has value just not sure if it will help my cancer heal or not. Thanks moi for trying to help us all. Matt hats off to your mad scientist soul. Xo haggis
"but do you think there’s any reason I published this shot on my blog other than that I think it’s adorable?"
Yeah, I do have my suspicions.
But at any rate, at least you didn't go into a swimming pool, and stand "stationary" beside three 8-10 year-old girls with a great big smile in your face (and possibly an even bigger bulge in your pants) as they frolicked and splashed about in the water.
Maybe if you had kids you would feel differently about this. And maybe if this post was by say, Don Matesz or Mark Sisson – real men who don't frequent children's social networking websites like Twitter – then I could believe it was an honest oversight to publish a picture of children in their swimsuits. But in the month or so that I've been reading this "Free the Animal" website, the author has:
* BRAGGED about his sexual conquests and how he is going to write a book about them
* ATTENDED and given a talk at a sleazy pick-up conference
* RAILED against how the government interferes in people's lives, stating that he should be able to do what he wants
* PUBLISHED photographs, not just of children in swimsuits, but also of his computer (a device often used by perverts to facilitate immoral self abuse)
* REVEALED that he lives in California, America's most immoral state.
You do the math…
I give up. After removing all the links and trying for the 6th or 7th time, my post showed up in the blog, but mysteriously vanished without a trace. (no I am not talking about the post I removed myself).
Just in case this post does make it: anyone with questions can contact me using the contact form on rbti dot info.
Thank you all for this wonderfull discussion.
Hi William,
Do you have your own website ? cause the one that rbti.info not working.
Taylor
There is no mystery. The original handle was too long to type out on my phone which has the screen the size of a peanut.
As for the rest, I have nothing to prove. Just relating my experience. Some will be open to it, and others, like yourself, will spend way too much energy trying to disprove it. Makes no difference to me. I am living again.
Hans
I have never in my life been religious. But you are absolutely right. I did meet God. He is not Challen, but he did tell me to go to Challen. And guess what. I went from dying in a wheel chair at 100 pounds, to taking a vacation and walking around on my own two feet digesting food and weighing a good 165. It's only been 6 months.
I am meeting people every single day with the same type of story while I am here. If God showed me this truth, and I sit here and deny it, what does that man for me? P.S. I still haven't gone to a church. But I do believe in God. And I will say that outright. Can everybody see that????
I fell (literally) to my knees and prayed to God. I told him I would do WHATEVER he told me to do to get better, if only he would tell me. And the next day I spoke with Challen. 3 days later I was making pancakes for my kids.
I'm not sorry that threatens you. I speak because there are people out there needing answers. And if even one person can get the miracle I have, it was worth dealing with the haters.
I know what I know and I know what I have seen. I will not allow anyone to talk me out of it. Nor will I provide proof. I don't need to. it's simply your choice to try it. How's that for throwing the scientific method out the window.
William,
So the rbti.info website is yours? Good to hear from you. I came across a software program for RBTI the first time I researched RBTI – very interesting. Wonder if it was the same one you were talking about. I don't want to say the name of it. I'll let you decide if you want to share that. Anyway, thanks for your input here :-)
Lorelei aka Hawaiigirl wrote:
"AS – glad to see the Jewfish (whatever that is) is Halal :)"
Ha! Ever had Jewfish? I haven't :-)
Oops! That was supposed to say…
Anyone ever had Jewfish? I haven't.
Hate not being able to edit comments. Guess if I would log in with a profile I could delete/repost, huh? lol :-)
Moi,
Thank you for caring enough about other people to take the time to share your experience! :-)
Moi wrote:
"AS
Challen will teach anyone!"
I know and that is really great that he does that. I'm giving it some thought. How long do you plan to hang out with Challen? Do you feel like you've gotten a good understanding of it so far? Or do you think it'll take a lot more time? I know it would take a good bit of time to learn even half of what Challen knows… but just wondering how long to pick up enough to maybe get started helping/guiding others (myself) and then call Challen to fill in the blanks as needed, of course.
I'm a fast learner anyway and grasp things pretty quickly – especially when I have a strong interest in it.
Anyway, still just thinking about it. On one hand, it would be good timing for me at this point. But on the other, I'm thinking maybe wait to see how things go with Matt's experience with Challen before deciding. I don't know. Will see – one day at a time :-)
@Moi – Thanks for sharing. I know that most people believe that health and nutrition are a simple matter of science, but there's so much we don't know about our bodies.
And that means we need to humbly recognize that there are many things that could be true that we might not not know yet.
Anyone know how to delete a comment? Seems my comment above has got Nikoley and his 'yes men' followers all hot and bothered and I wouldn't want to damage his proud 20-year blogging record of never having taken a hit or even "broken a sweat" during an internet joust. He's the baddest man in paleo don't you know?
So yeah, the comment clearly has nothing to do with RBTI anyway so Matt or anyone else who knows how to delete comments go ahead and take it down. I only put it up here after Nikoley banned me and selectively deleted some of my posts in our little tete-a-tete (making a mockery of his professed love of free speech), including the one above that was a response to a question from another one of his commenters (who is probably wondering why I apparently haven't answered her!)
I never normally post on blogs, especially "troll" comments and arguments like this shit, but seeing Nikoley's latest post where he basically publicly bullies 2 of his readers for daring to disagree with his belief that people who vote or appeal to the government for help are basically "parasites" who "steal" money that they haven't earned from others.
Then one of his sheep-like "yes men" readers suggested (without a hint of irony) that he should take legal action and sue me (for calling him a pervert). LOL. If anything shows that they are all a bunch of bull-shitting posers, its that. Pontificating about how "parasites" get the government to do their "dirty work" as Nikoley puts it, and how they just want to be left alone to fend for themselves and look after themselves, but then as soon as a little internet "troll" slags them off on the internet, it's a whole different story. Pathetic.
In fairness to Nikoley he did actually dismiss this suggestion. As right-wing as his views are, at least he sticks to them (well some of them, be good if he manned up on his freedom of speech views), unlike his grubby little sheep.
BAAAAAA! BAAAAA! BAAAAA!
Moi,
Nice to see another believer on here!
God reveals himself to those who
seek him.
Betty
@Marty
Who the heck is Nikoley and what are you blathering on about?
Does it have anything to do with this post?
If not, GTFO. Your posts are gross and random.
Come on Anonymous, get with the program. Nikoley is the baddest man in paleo. He doesn't take any shit from anyone. If bloggers were animals, he'd be the fucking honey badger:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4r7wHMg5Yjg
Not discrediting the positive testimonials from people, but it would be much more easy to believe if they left all the Jesus shit out and if the science behind it wasn't so wishy washy.
To anyone on here who has experience with RBTI personally:
After doing some further digging, the picture I'm getting is that even if an RBTI protocol is not followed precisely, there is incremental benefit that can be achieved for health preservation (if you aren't too far down the road of illness) by following some of the basic principles – i.e. avoiding no-no foods, drinking distilled water, following individual recommendations as closely as possible. I present this position in contrast to the idea that it's "all-or-nothing." I think this is an important distinction to establish for those of us who aren't terminally sick, to help us determine whether a "noble effort" toward following RBTI is worthwhile. If the benefits are somewhat proportional to the compliance to protocol, I think it's worth serious consideration based on what we've learned so far. If total submission to every minute detail is absolutely required to receive any benefit, it's a tougher sell for someone like me who is not (visibly) on death's door.
Any thoughts on this?
Ty
TJK- i don't have experience with RBTI at all but i've been wondering the same as you. it seems though that if one is going to work with challen, it might be a waste of time if you think you can't follow it precisely because of how his recommendations, personally for you, are based off the patterns he sees in your numbers which might be all over the place if you don't follow the rules exact. but if you aren't planning on working with challen, you could probably benefit from following some of the basic principles and see how that makes you feel. i think we can all learn a lot from rbti and i too think that it could be more appealing if it wasn't so cut and dry. after all, we are human… not robots. but then again, this isn't just another diet… this is way more strategic (in the most simple way) than going paleo or raw or vegan. which is why i can see this being mostly for the very very ill. but for those of us who are doing pretty good and want to maintain, it'd be nice to know that following some of these rules could help!
i know what it feels like to be sick and hopeless. and when you're at that point, you'll do anything to feel better. even sticking to such a strict protocol.
not sure if i'm correct here but those are my thoughts!! :)
I'm with you on that one, TJK. Healthy people can surely incorporate some of these ideas to stay healthy and get even healthier.
I've already started skimming the raw milk I use to make Kefir. I am using that cream in coffee and to make butter, but I've cut back on overall fat intake nonetheless. I am going to cut out chocolate, and I never really eat shellfish.
Since I am pretty healthy, I am simply incorporating the new ideas that Matt's RBTI adventure is bring to me. Balancing salt/sugar/water/minerals sounds like a good idea to me. I am a "high consumer" of water, always have been. Bringing up salt/sugar/minerals to balance this is already showing me some good results. I make sure my salt & sugar are high quality, minimally processed and mineral rich.
I muscle test almost everything I ingest as well.
I do wonder about the nuts. I agree that they are a monster to digest when chewed, but I have a vitamix and can liquefy them just fine. Nut quality is another factor. Would a few mineral-rich, organic brazil nuts blended to a liquid consistency pose digestion problems for ME and my digestion? I think probably not. That doesn't mean I'm going to snack on planter's peanuts out of the can, though.
Life without chocolate sounded bleak at first, but then I ate some coconut macaroons and all was well. :-)
Peace,
Cameron
Thanks for weighing in, Keriann. To take it a step further, it would be nice to know exactly which of the general rules have the most impact (either + or -). This would help contextualize them and give people like us a framework that would help determine a priority-weighting to each tenant. For example, I've heard multiple times that pork is particularly damaging (energy-stealing) to all people in any form. That's not a tough one to follow, but would appear to have significant impact. What kind of impact would drinking distilled water have over drinking mineralized water? What about eating the right foods at the wrong times vs eating them at the same foods at the right times?
Since RBTI is so precision-
oriented, it would be interesting to see if anyone has cataloged a weighted scale of some sort that can put into perspective the relative benefit of following each "rule." I'm sure that's wishful thinking as everyone probably would respond differently, but if any alleged health program had the capability to quantify such a list based on empirical test results, it seems RBTI might be a candidate.
Any other thoughts on my original question?
Cameron, I think we're pretty much on the same page. I too have decided to start incorporating some of the general RBTI rules for now such as cutting out pork/shellfish/unclean meats. I don't know my numbers yet, but I figure it won't hurt me to start adding a little lemon (not in therapeutic doses) to my water. I am maintaining my avoidance of PUFA-rich foods too as I think Ray Peat is onto something there. With he and RBTI both being out on nuts, I probably will just steer clear from them and the veggie oils. I fully intend to try to adhere to Challen's protocol when he interprets my numbers, even though my travel schedule won't make it easy. The way I see it, it is very low risk, and potentially very high reward – a no-brainer combination. I know some people are still skeptical of the validity of the method and understandably so, but when I see so little downside and so much potential upside, the choice of whether or not to investigate deeper gets pretty easy.
But that's just me.
Ty
Ty,
I think you're right about being able to incorporate some general guidelines to improve overall health (and to prevent disease). I wonder if that might be part of Matt's goal. To first find out if it's legit, and then to explain it in a more accessible way, telling us which things are for a healing protocol (like distilled water, for example) and which are universal guidelines (like pork or chocolate).
I told Matt that if RBTI does what it says, I'd much rather have my numbers checked regularly than go to an invasive gyno or get a mammogram. So I want to see what it can do to prevent disease, but also to diagnose it.
I'm really looking forward to what he has to say, because (like you) I think combining RBTI (if it's true) with other information about long-term, subtler issues (like PUFAs) would be really beneficial.
Matt – where'd you go?… Eagerly awaiting an update:)!
Is this RBTI thing actually for real? I mean really? I've been waiting for Matt to come and do the whole "You've been punked!" announcement to show everyone how easily they can be whipped into a guru woowoo frenzy.
So one again I am lured by the novel sights exotic smells eminating from the 180 Degree kitchen only to sink my teeth into the latest installment to find that, much like a portion of raw fibrous leafy vegetables, there is much to chew on but very little of practical use for me to digest absorb and assimilate, apart from one or two nuggets which may or may not be of much use. (much like the resistant fibre found in said vegetables that ferment to produce Short Chain Fatty acids in the gut which may or may not be usable by the body for other functions – the practicalitity and even at times the substance seems a little tenuous.)
Catty P
The comments used to be the most interesting part of this blog. I dont understand why You have gone into this territory matt. I think you have lost a lot of readers with this stuff. I would have started a different blog or soemthing because most people here are not on their deathbeds looking for some quack cure. Just everyday people who have gained some weight and feel a little off. Just sad to see this blog populated by total weirdos now
Anonymous with the weirdo comment.
I'm not sure that people on their deathbed are looking for some quack cure.. And i'm not sure what's quack about it. It's real cures for real people. I find it really amazing that people want to attack something they have no knowledge of.
I lost 16 lbs on this program so I'm guessing it may also help people who were looking to loose a little weight.
I actually wasn't looking for weight loss. I was looking to recover from depression and chronic fatigue. The weight loss was a added bonus. Even though most people would not have considered me overweight I was more volumptious than I would have liked, I feel very comfortable in my body now.
I'm not sure why you think these posts are not relevant. Personally I feel these posts are very important for those that wish to maintain their health and those that wish to recover their health.
A little off can lead to a lot off over time and RBTI can correct things before you get too far down the rabbit hole.
Many people who feel healthy are a heart attack waiting to happen.. I'd sure love to know a few years in advance if that was gonna happen to me so I could correct it..
Pipparoni
Im not gonna argue about whether this stuff is helpful or not. I admitttedly dont know much about it and dont really care. I liked this blog because it helped me stop caring so damn much about my "health" all the time. I think Matt helped a lot of people with this and now this whole thing just goes in the opposite direction.
If anyone is super desperate for a cure then maybe this is something to try but for the everyday person who cared to much about health in the first place, all the stuff is just not worth looking into getting back into that obsessive mindset that a lot of people have.
@ Anonymous..
Cue people arguing they're "not obsessive", they've actually been set free and can eat almost ANYTHING now (except for what the Bible and//or Challen says are No-No foods, which is the same forever yet changes with your numbers), thinking about their "numbers" every day and running their pee through a home-made lab kit on a regular basis is totally not obsessive, and their minds are now peaceful and at ease in 3…. 2…. 1…..
Wow. Anonymous, you are kind of a jack ass. I bet Matt wishes you were one of the readers he "lost." Matt fancies himself a health researcher. He doesn't exist so you can stop obsessing about food. It isn't his job to only present information that doesn't trigger your neurosis. If you don't like what you find here, don't read it. For the rest of us who have truly inquiring minds; are curious about ways to improve our health, AND have the self control to avoid obsession, this is an interesting jaunt into a method we would most likely never check out for ourselves without the info being brought to light on this site.
Go, Matt!! :)
desert dweller
I find it hilarious also….why do some people go ape shit when something new and different is thrown in the mix.I feel Matt adds to the health community by large amount….with his new and different views.He starts up the "maybe carbs are not as bad as everyone says" and gets dogged BUT for some strange reason alot of LC gurus are pushing moderate carbs now;)
And this new and weird stuff,with testing of urine and saliva like a fish tank keeper does,may just be a cure for my non-life threatening symptoms if just being on some days and off others.I wanna know the way to keep my body at its peak and so I am all for Matt and his traveling the world looking for the next guru THING.;)
We probably should send Matt off next to the Himalayas with a backpack,a liter of maple syrup and a path.I have a feeling that the truth lies there somewhere.LOL just kidding Matt.
It's sort of hard to tell how many Anon assholes there are (since they're Anon), but you/they don't seem to understand the concept of skeptical curiosity. It's perfectly possible to ask questions and attempt understanding without being gullible and drinking the kool-aid of some quack theory.
But speaking of quack theories, how do you explain the sudden and timely reversal of Pipa and Moi's health? Just a coincidence? That thyroid cancer that survived two rounds of chemo was all set to disappear on it's own anyway?
I haven't seen enough evidence yet to feel comfortable saying what RBTI can and cannot do. But unless everything Matt has posted about RBTI is a lie, and Pippa is in on it (and has been for several months), and all the discussions on the Yahoo group are some sort of elaborate prank, I can say that -something- is going on. Something very interesting. And I'm glad Matt is looking into it.
As for myself, I can already say that the lemon water is intriguing. Reams and Challan are hardly unique in their recommendation of it, but regardless I tried it for just the first time this week because of the RBTI investigation and the results were immediate and obvious. My blood sugar control was pretty good before, but now it is rock solid. I am completely awake and alert all day without any drowsy moments, and even when I'm so hungry my stomach is doing backflips my hands remain steady enough to build a house of cards. This is real. This merits further reading.
—-
William, I found your site and read through it. Very interesting stuff. Thank you for putting it up there.
P.S. "Hart" is an animal. The organ in your chest is a "Heart". Just FYI.
Wolfstriked –
Matt has alread been to the Himalayas over 10 years ago and gained many valuable insights.
Brock
I did not try anything conventional for my thyroid. That cancer was a roman with best cancer who I actually saw a few days ago here. She said it's all fine though. Mixed stories lol.
I would not promote the lemonade without knowing yournumbers though. This pogram is very exact.
Jumping in…
I am not in dire health. I am not obese. I do not suffer from mental health issues or any other diseases (that I currently know of). I am one of those of us who have a little weight to lose, but tried every other style of eating out there.
Here's a way of eating that's relatively easy to implement and has apparently really helped people, so hells yes, I'm going to be interested. Frigging sue me for giving some aspects of this a try!
I would love to able to afford the kit et al.; however, I can't at the moment. Again, frigging sue me.
I'm not ashamed to say that yes, I have jumped on many bandwagons as of late: a year ago, it was primal; a few months ago, it was Peat; and two weeks ago, it was RBTI. I gained 10 pounds on both primal and Peat. I felt good for a few days on both, but each made my stomach go in the opposite direction that it needs to be going.
I lost 3 pounds in two weeks following just the basic eating way of eating that I've been able to deduce from reading these comments. I gave up working out while attempting Peat, but I love working out and have started back to high-intensity aerobic work.
I also started drinking the lemon water, but not as much as others say they're doing. Just 2x a day with a little lemonade mixed in. It has helped my btwn meal fogginess and I don't feel like I need to eat every couple of hours. I just feel normal again — and actually happy. I feel like I can do things again.
So, I thank everyone who has commented or provided info, even though I can't afford the kit!
Yeah, well, I wasn't taking careful notes about who had what disease. :)
I know the program is exact and that it's lemon for some people and water for others. I'm just saying I tried it and it worked for me. I realize that I would have to pony up the $$$ for the testing kit though if I wanted to know more, and that's just not going to happen at the moment. I don't have any pressing health concerns that would really justify the cost.
For now I'm just avoiding the no no foods and drinking lemonade to see if I notice a difference. If I was going to spend money on anything it would be a good Breville juicer.
Condorman,LOL he has been around huh?
Whats weird is that matt turned me on to Peats pint of Hagen Daz every day.Past few days to a week I have given up artificial sweeteners and now eat a pint of HD and real soda all day.Today I had a subway roast beef sandwich with chips and a coke.Then a popcorn and a small coke at movie theater.Then I cam home and had a pint of HD and a coke…..and ate the same thing again 4 hrs later for dinner.WHats nuts is I feel amazing eating like this and I look good physically also.
I am all for buying the equipment and following this RBTI.Just need to hear some more about it.I have a feeling I may need the lemon water as I feel I may be too alkaline.Don't really know if that is why they say to drink it though.
Lanie
I wouldn't think a little lemonade after meals is such a big deal. The problem is people doing it all day or trying to follow Matt's program. The thing is it can be dangerous because of the affect it has on the sugars. And that is not just cause one is ingesting sugar. THe actual lemon has an effect.
To everyone, yes, getting the no foods out of your diet is a HUGE deal. After all, the secret is in the diet.
The the wierdo
Sorry you are so neurotic you can't handle anything off the beaten path. Maybe this blog is not for you. From my take on Matt's work, is his purpose is to throw the wrench in the spokes. Doesn't seem like your thing.
GET OFF THE SEA SALT all those wwho think they use 'quality salt.' That stuff will kill you.
I have a question to the RBTI experts:
If this theory really works so well and can cure practically every disease, why is it that Carey Reams, the inventor of the magic formula, died at age 75 while beeing obese and senile?
@Moi
What do you use instead of sea salt?
Jannis- you have your facts messed up but regardless yes Reams did died of health complications because he had a permanent military injury that no man (even Peat himself) could recover from. Not to mention he was FUBAR'd by conventional medicine and surgeries like so many are. Its no surprise you would be closed minded to anything that contradicts your Lord Peat. But would have thought you'd come up with something better than that to nitpick.
Why do you call me close minded? I only asked a question about something I don't understand.
Which military injury was that and why couldn't he recover from that?
Reams said that it was god himself who gave him the theory while he was praying. I, personally, would expect that a theory coming from god is able to cure complications caused by conventional medicine.
Could you perhaps explain in a little more detail how Reams was fucked up by conventional medicine? All the RBTI people say that the method cures cancer. Thus, Reams must have suffered from something worse than cancer, is that correct?
For the rest of us who have truly inquiring minds; are curious about ways to improve our health, AND have the self control to avoid obsession, this is an interesting jaunt into a method we would most likely never check out for ourselves without the info being brought to light on this site.
No, I'm sorry, this is just plain stupid. If you had an inquiring mind you would find that this has quackery written all over it in big enormous bold capital letters. Quacks always work with ANECDOTES, because that's all they have. It is not scientific. For every person that has a magical recovery, there are 99 who fail – you just don't hear about it. This is elementary stuff really, even I can feel the stupid just trying to explain it to you. For those parroting on about how much better off they are for this woo, yes you have discovered the placebo effect, congratulations. Get down to the Homoeopathy clinic when this stops working, for I hear their practitioners have some stuff you might like to inquire about. John Edward called too, he says he has a special message for you. I'm very sad to see this blog overridden by fawning cult parasites.
Jannis- no you weren't just asking a question (which would have been the bigger thing to do) you were being a closed minded sarcastic smart ass and I would have expected more from you. I'd have thought you'd at least have read thru the comments, many of which would have answered your questions.
During World War II Reams enlisted in the US army as a chemist and Officer with the Special Operations Branch, and soon after he was severely injured in a landmine explosion. He suffered serious spinal injuries that left him a quadriplegic. After the war his recovery did not progress as hoped, and he deteriorated to the point that he was considered to be close to death.
He actually did recover from his paralysis. How many RECOVERED quadriplegics have you heard about? But he still had a permanently damaged liver and shrapnel in his pancreas from the war among other things. Healthy liver function is critical to human health.
Thanks for the answer. Those are indeed sever injuries, which explain his sufferings.
I wasn't beeing sarcastic, and you're right, I haven't read through the entire comment section.
As the anon stated above, it's hard to take something serious, if all the evidence is anecdotes and stories. Even for the basic things there is absolutely no scientific evidence.
I think dismissing appropriate criticism of people who want some scientific basis is close minded.
I am not saying that something can't work because there isn't a gapless scientific explanation. But if there isn't any scientific evidence for your theorie you should be able to show a large body of convincing evidence that it really works when applied to the real world. Medical records, evaluations etc.
But this whole things is based solely on anecdotes and unconfirmed stories.
If you showed some evidence, people might start taking you seriously.
So what's the proposed mechanism by which avoiding chocolate or pork or other such specific foods repairs spinal cord injuries? Thanks.
Wolfstriked –
Have you ever tried eating "real" food instead of going on/off vLC vs junk?
And, every time you've done a junk-splurge (that you've documented on this blog) you go back to vLC.
My question is, why? If you feel great eating crap and looking good, why stop?
And, again, why not try "real" nourishing food instead?
It might..*gasps*…do you good >_o
Just curious
^_^
-Beth
While I sit here smiling eating My Hagen-Dazs blueberry crumble for breakfast I think of your post and say BAH!!!LOL just kidding Beth.
Real food is what I am doing now.Whats not real about cream,sugar,milk,blueberries,egg yolks etc.They are real fats and real carbs.I have chicken and rice waiting to be cooked up later in butter.I will say that I just feel better eating like this and amazingly I am losing weight.
Why do I go back to VLC high fat???Because I always have this look to my skin of unhealthiness.Some times in my life I look so healthy and for yrs I can not pin point what it is I am doing to look like that.I think now I figured it out…its all the artificial sweeteners I use daily.Example day before…no joking here.I need the caffeine to fuel my heavy labor job and yet I always felt ill and dragging.Now I drink soda or eat real fruit and feel amazing!!!
coffee w/two splenda
diet soda w/aspartame
diet soda w/aspartame
diet soda w/aspartame
afternoon drinks=2liter green tea(diet with splenda)
To Anon calling names at Jannis for asking simple questions,
"How many RECOVERED quadriplegics have you heard about?"
I googled your quote. You forgot to include the rest of the rest of the quote about his recovery:
"At this point, in desperation, he traveled to Philadelphia to attend a Katherine Kumen faith healing service. The service, later documented in Katherine Kumen's book, apparently produced a miraculous cure for Reams, and he was able to walk and function normally. "
That doesnt sound like RBTI had anything to do with his "recoverY"….
Just wanna add that I stray away from "fake" foods.I do this by reading labels.I eat subway alot and to me its real food.I stick away from say tuna with mayo(high pufa) and instead eat roast beef(just plain beef) etc.I do not eat donuts at the morning coffee cart like everyone else.Instead I now grab my coffee w/sugar and milk…..ever notice many healthy people eat sugarI sometimes grab 4 hard boiled eggs and a bagel for breakfast w/real cream cheese etc.
So sea salt will kill you? What's the science behind that?
I'm curious about the use of distilled water. I know some warn against consuming it, stating that because it has no minerals distilled water pulls other substances into itself. Therefore, if your buying distilled water in plastic bottles it leaches the chemical plasticizers from the container into the water.
Wolfstriked –
I was refering to your July 30, 2011 11:54:00 PM MDT post: A sub (kudos), soda, chips, coke, popcorn, coke, H?agen and coke…and again H?agen and coke….
Hence my question >_o
Nuff about that ^_^
-Beth
Anon- and that's still not the whole story. There's much more. But do you think his biological theory of ionization wasn't inspired by that and all of his experiences? The point was to do some digging and get the facts straight before jumping to bash something. Like the way you just dismissed it as quackery and saying its stupid for people to inquire about it. Yes people who limit their options to things that can only be scientifically explained (whatever thats worth) are closed minded and stunted. Their loss.
There is a big diff between skepticism and sarcasm. Lets be honest at first Jannis was not just asking a simple question he was being a smart ass. But I respect the fact that he did change his tone. I see he can take criticism in stride and be the better for it. Some people can't.
@lanie–loved your comment–i can totally relate.
on the distilled water note: my husband just told me that if i buy a water distiller, even a counter top model, that my name will be put on the BATF's list and they will be able to search our home if they deem it necessary without a warrant. distillation is federally regulated and you are only allowed to have a still that holds no more than a gallon at a time. am i just ignorant, or did you all already know this? call me crazy, but that is insane.
have any of you bought a still recently so you can have distilled water all the time? right now we buy it bottled.
>>" The point was to do some digging and get the facts straight "
That's exactly what Jannis was politely, carefully trying to do…. and you jumped on him with personal insults and accusations of 'nitpicking". LOL..
There IS a difference between skepticism and sarcasm and just asking questions. Seems like you don't know how to spot it, or are so defensive that you think everthing is an attack..
Don't throw a hissyfit about "tone" when you/your method can't answer simple honest politely-phrased questions. It's transparent.
GG
Anon GG- I have no interest in trading punches with you. I don't take anything as a attack and I do not attack. I'm honest and tell it like it is. Sometimes the truth hurts and some people can't handle the truth. I've been around here a long time and know Jannis to be a very intelligent chap. If my inciting him to contribute more valuable use of that intelligence bothers you then thats your issue. I prefer it when he contributes constructive input to the discussion. I'm sure he does too.
Speaking of transparency- looks like you jumped to his defense because his question almost made your comment about it being "stupid" not look so bad and thus made you feel less lonely out on that limb. If he had said something that was contrary to your opinion I'd bet you wouldn't have defended him. Thats just the way I see it. Nothing personal. Jannis doesn't need you to defend him. He is a big boy and can hold his own around here.
Anonymous 'Sometimes The Truth Hurts',
If you have no interest in trading punches with me, why are you still responding?
If you've "been around here a long time", why aren't you using your actual name to jump on him?
Do you maybe have a personal beef with him?
If you're happy that he changed his tone after you jumped on him, then why are you still refusing to answer his constructive questions?
re: the "stupid" comment, posted by an Anonymous (6:57:00 AM MDT)) wasn't me. If you haven't noticed, there are a **lot** of anonymous comments coming through here with lots of different things to say.
Do you have anything to add to the conversation besides waving around your Mighty Stamp of ClosedMindedness or qoutes about miracles with the details removed ?
If not, Id suggest you take off the sock puppet and get back to posting under your actual name.
I'd love to hear lots of the above questions answered! Looking forward to it.
I hope you can "take criticism in stride and be the better for it. Some people can't."
:)
GG
@Beth….I am following Ray Peat I guess.Earlier I had some chicken with 2 cups rice and feel bad right now.I am headed out the door to buy some Hagen Daz.I know its crazy but I am 41 yrs old and if ice cream makes me feel good while I feel bad on chicken and rice then sugar is not bad in my eyes.Seems to balance my BS while starch does opposite.Its all a test remember…I started last week this high sugar diet you know,just to see what happens.
I may also go back to VLC high fat with my new diet soda ban to see how I fare….Just dread the road into ketosis right now when some ice cream sounds so comfortingLOL
Moi–
Good to know! I used to drink water w/ lemon (not as part of a particular diet but because it just sounded refreshing) and had totally forgotten about it until I read about it here. I didn't think I was overdoing it (I think I'd feel physically horrible if I was), but I appreciate you schooling me! Can you explain about the sea salt?
Team Smith —
I figured I couldn't be the only one… :)
Anon GG- responding to communicate my views is not trading punches. But I must say good comebacks man. No joke. If that comment was not yours then I stand corrected and apologize for the assumption.
I did answer the questions Jannis asked. Its up to him (and anyone) to seek out the whole story (its a long one) if they choose. I found that his recovery and everything he learned had everything to do with RBTI. Anyone who researches it further can come to their own conclusions.
I've never posted under anything but anonymous. Although I like sock puppet LOL. I have nothing against Jannis. In fact because I respect his intelligence I expect more from him and I like to push him to step it up.
No I have nothing constructive to add to the discussion LOL. But good sparring with you man. Really. Well played.
-sock puppet
@team smith
We have had distillers in the past. We bought them from waterwise and were never aware of being put on a "list." I would be curious as to what waterwise would say about that. They never call theirs "stills" though, always "distillers." Do you think that would make a difference?
desert dweller
@team smith
Okay, so my husband just said that he was aware that if you own a distiller for alcohol you have to register it in many (all?) states because distillation of alcohol is regulated. He is unsure why the same would be true with the average water distiller because although they do the same thing, they need to be slightly different in order to make alcohol. Specifically, a distiller of alcohol has to have an adjustable temperature, and your average counter top water distiller is not adjustable.
desert dweller
So what about microwaves? What does Challen think of cooking food in them?
Organism,
<3 Orwell!
Will simmer down in the backseat now. ;)
GG
Anonymous
W had microwave peas for dinner.
Anonymous
W had microwave peas for dinner.
@pipparoni
"She had tried everything that was available."
Yes, I'm sure she has tried EVERYTHING (not that anyone could do that in a lifetime, but never mind.)
"She was puking everything she ate back up, Having massive panic attacks, Heart racing, Migraines, Diahhrea, Couldn't get out of bed. She has 2 young children and had to send them away to live with her husbands parents because she couldn't look after them. Was actually depressed to the point of thinking about just giving up and ending it all. Then she met Challen. And within a few weeks my friend Moi sounded like a normal human being. !"
That kind of stories are a dime a dozen on the web. Every diet guru has his testimonials. Not saying it isn't true, but it can't impress someone who's been following the alternative diet / alternative health world for a while.
"So Hans I'm wondering why you are so threatened by Moi and her recovery?"
Seems like you are very gifted at drawing conclusions.
"Why do you need to attack something you don't understand?"
Why does she need to make arrogant statements? How long has she been with Challen? Long enough to know it all?
"She is trying to help people here."
Defending her guru agains supposed attacks ("how come you evil people dare imply he is in it for the money????") don't really give that kind of impression.
@Moi
"I fell (literally) to my knees and prayed to God. I told him I would do WHATEVER he told me to do to get better, if only he would tell me. And the next day I spoke with Challen. 3 days later I was making pancakes for my kids."
Millions of people have done the same. "God" led them down all kinds of different ways of healing, or they didn't receive any help at all. How come?
"I'm not sorry that threatens you."
How come you feel threatened by critical enquiries? If you had the ability to take a step back, you'd be able to understand that those lowly people who haven't seen God yet aren't going to take everything you say as the gospel of truth just because you have a good story. If you aren't aware of it, such stories are (like I mentioned) a dime a doesn't on the internet.
"I speak because there are people out there needing answers. And if even one person can get the miracle I have, it was worth dealing with the haters."
So someone who doesn't drop everything and follow you after hearing your story is a "hater?" Right on.
"I know what I know and I know what I have seen. I will not allow anyone to talk me out of it."
Now who is feeling threatened?
"Nor will I provide proof. I don't need to. it's simply your choice to try it. How's that for throwing the scientific method out the window"
Weather it is "scientific" remains to be shown. Right now it is rather clouded in mystery and it seems that most of its proponents (except for William) would like to keep it that way.
Who said that I'm not going to try it? Maybe I will, but I'll give it some time before I throw 400$+ out of the window for a testing kit or 150$+ for some shoddy photocopied "book" that contains "the rules." See where I'm coming from?
Hans
I'm not threatened by critical inquiry. In fact, I'm annoyed I can't say God without being attacked by morons like yourself. I don't care if you try out. I do marvel at your cynicism. Your supposed questions are oozing with it. You are hell bent on proving this to be a sham. That is where I get annoyed. You can't educate the educated.
now if you truly were curious you would be asking questions like, "how is this so individual?" "what does pork do to the numbers?" "what is the difference between high and low sugars?" "why is testing every two weeks in the beginning necessary?" "can we hear from more people with stories like this?" "why can't a person guess at shar they should do by symptoms?" And a good question for you instead of complaining about there being so much mystery, you could ask why there is. Why challen is different than william in what he can do. Which by the way, william works along with the ass who puts hypoglycemics on shit loads of water and says pork is ok. I wouldn't trust him.
Moi,
I am curious and I would like to ask for some objective evidence that proofs that RBTI works. I don't wanna bother you with that, but I haven't been so fortunate as others and met god so that he could show me the right path. I also would like to know how the refractometer measures sugar in your urine if non-diabetic people have no sugar in their urine.
I am also wondering why shellfish is such a bad food and why you have to drink destilled water.
I agree with you that conventional pork is bad. It's also right that excess water consumption is very dangerous for a hypoglycemic person. Chocolate isn't good for people with low blood sugar, either since the high leucin content works like insulin.
But there are people who tell you that for free and give you a scientific explanation. No 400$ kit and a dozen pee tests a day needed.
Thanks in advance!
@Moi
What about the sea salt? What do you use instead? Table salt? Any other seasonings?
@moi…
William was making good case for RBTI and giving lots of good solid info and backing you up… and you just threw him & his info under the bus because he does some things different from Challen.
??
I'm confused.who can we trust?
-Healthseekeing
Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. Matt, you said you would have revealed more but you were afraid it'd make you look like you'd lost your mind. I'm sorry to say it, but it looks like you already have, so you may as well. I don't want to just put shit on this stuff, I do hold respect for your judgement and intuition. You have done some brilliant work after all and obviously you're a good investigator. So can you PLEASE get into something a little more tangible on this, for those of us who are a little more sceptical than your newly arrived followers (who will shoot me down because I'm anonymous)? Before we go and throw modern medicine out the window at least?
Anon.
FYI
I don't test my numbers everyday. I check my pee when I go. 3-4 times a day these days. I don't usually test in the evening because my sugars go up and I don't need to. I can generally tell my sugar number these days from the color of my pee. I don't think about food until I'm about to eat it. And I don't obsess about my health because these days there is little to obsess about. Obsessing is done by people who have unhealthy bodies and not enough mineral. I know it well because I used to obsess about certain things. Usually food, boys, how people saw me, being right, being negative about myself and other people. Since RBTI I can't actually find anything to obsess about..
Wow, this thread has been busy over the weekend. :-)
Moi/Original RBTIer ~
Thanks for your reply.
There is no mystery. The original handle was too long to type out on my phone
Thanks for clarifying your identity. :-) I was confused for a moment. When it comes to extended conversation threads of this nature, I'm sure you can understand how it's important to know who's saying what. It might be confusing for those trying to follow the conversation or those just joining in.
As for the rest, I have nothing to prove. Just relating my experience.
Thank you for doing so. :-) I can see that you feel very passionately for this subject, and want to help as many people as possible through relating your experience. As the person who first introduced Matt to the RBTI method and someone who is working directly with Challen, your experience is invaluable and deserves to be very seriously listened to.
I commend you for struggling through all you have done and finding a path to feeling better. I think many of us want to find the same thing!
Some will be open to it, and others, like yourself, will spend way too much energy trying to disprove it.
It seems you have misunderstood my intent. Please review my past comments addressing this, which you may have missed.
To paraphrase, if you choose not to review them: I am not interested in 'disproving', 'tearing down', or otherwise dismissing the RBTI method.
I am incredibly open to the RBTI ideas; as you can see from my past comments, I have been extensively exposing myself to as many sources of information on it as possible.
I am interested in clearing up discrepancies, asking questions, and clarifying the methods which Matt and others are using to verify claims.
I am also interested in sharing relevant information that would otherwise be difficult to find.
I am extremely curious, and love to review information from all sources in order to make good decisions, including your testimonials and all the others.
I am fascinated by this subject; if it looks like RBTI is a safe and solid approach, I will excitedly be one of the first on this forum to purchase a test kit and begin work with Challen. It seems there are a lot of things that need to be cleared up first, in order for me to make that decision.
As a fellow person dealing with health issues, difficult past experiences and limited means, I hope you can understand my thoroughness.
Would you be open to answering some further questions? It would be great to hear your informed take on some unclear concepts.
Taylor/Hobson
Everyone – let's try to leave God out of this discussion. It serves no beneficial purpose either way, and NO ONE really knows jack about God, or what God really is or isn't…
Let's just stay as objective as possible and be goal and objective minded in our discussions.
RBTI – the proof is always in the pudding. We have little proof of anything in the health and nutrition arena. That's why 180 Degree Health exists.
No more personal attacks. They are kind of silly in a serious forum/blog don't you think…
OK, let's all get back to our constructive debate, investigation and discussion of health and nutrition as Matt has always invisioned and intended.
Am I the only one wondering where the h Matt is?
Right now is the honeymoon period for RBTI and 180. I'll come back in 3 months and see what people are saying.
All has gone silent…eager for your next post, Matt…
Hey look, another Taylor. :-) Hi (bye?) other-Taylor.
Danyelle & Anonymous ~
Moi indicated above that Matt's on vacation right now.
Condorman ~
Bravo, I agree! Flap, Woody, flap. :-)
Taylor/Hobson
@Moi
"You can't educate the educated. "
That's exactly why your posts make me question RBTI much more than if you posted in a more rational and less know-it-all way. OK, you've made positive experiences and witnessed others making them, too. Does that mean you KNOW that pork or sea salt are bad for everyone on the planet? It's impossible for you to know. You haven't even been on RBTI that long, have you? Already you're giving out smart advice like "sea salt is sooo bad for you" without even saying why, giving alternatives etc. I prefer William's attitude over someone claiming authority she doesn't have and speaking of "asses" and "bullshit."
On the subject of testimonials:
Testimonials: Listening to People’s Stories
Just a few things I want to say here. It's almost like a discussion group needs to form up above and beyond 180 degree health.
There's been a lot of excellent points brought up, but I doubt they will be followed up seriously. I am interested in what Taylor is saying about how we quantify the results of RBTI.
I'm going to go on a slight tangent now. My understanding of traditional cultures is they had no magic. They just had trial and error over generations and paid attention (the ones that had good health anyway). Being a traditional culture was no guarantee that you were achieving good health or excellent physiques.
That same process should apply today, except it is seriously disrupted by a number of factors, such that the average person is far below what is achievable.
The problem for the average person is that nothing is quantified. When your doctor tells you to lose weight, he does not also tell you that diet/exercise has a 95% failure rate long term, nor does he discuss the negative consequences of dieting.
(cont)
People that bounce around different diet theories really are doing so because they're looking for solid quantifiable results to say something like, if you give up alcohol and sugar for one month, you will turn off your fat switch. No information like that currently exists which to me is more of a comment on our modern medical establishment.
I'm not surprised that most alternative therapies do not have quantitative data. Collecting such information would be the job of each individual practitioner, and to get broad based info, it would have to be done properly and consistently.
And like Taylor has discussed, you need to understand what your criteria are up front.
(cont)
The point about testimonials is well taken, but if somebody like Challen has records, then he should be able to come up with some semblance of his success rate.
Moi, I don't understand your dismissal of William or other RBTI practitioners. There needs to be an objective basis for such dismissal, which I don't believe I've seen. It's also not been explained what about sea salt is so bad. Especially considering other sources explain how beneficial it is. Again, nothing objective to go off of.
Jannis, your points are well taken, but you can tone down the sarcasm. You don't need to insult people with the tone of your comments while bringing up valid points. I agree with the basic premise of RBTI, as I understand it at least. That we use measurement to enhance the whole trial and error process until clear relationships emerge.
This is presumably what Reams/Challen have done except that… there are no data for anyone to look at. Just, as I understand, equations to be taken at face value or relationships in someone's head. This is a serious problem for legitimizing this work or carrying it forward. Maybe I'm wrong about what's published/available, but I will need to do more investigation.
Matt, there should be no you have to try it to understand it. The points about acceptance criteria and success rates are perfectly valid for screening out a potential therapy.
One final note: on chocolate.
I remember Stephan Guyenet talking about a study where the mice that drank chocolate ensure gained more weight than the mice that drank vanilla or strawberry ensure. Stephan chalked this up to the food palatability theory, but after some of the discussion in this thread, I'm wondering if it wasn't just the chocolate itself, and nothing to do with the flavor.
AaronF,
If god is part of an explanation for a theorie in the absence of any scientific or abjective data, I think a little sarcasm should be allowed.
About chocolate:
I don't think it has anything to do with the flavor. Chocolate's odd protein basically functions like insulin, so it makes sense that the rats eating chocolate gained more weight. I always crave for something sweet quickly after I ate dark chocolate. I have heard the same from many other people, so I think chocolate really has the ability to quickly lower the blood sugar and to promote over eating.
@Betty
you can find anything if you're looking for it, that doesn't mean it's actually there.
-Anonymous
For anyone who has been doing RBTI with Challen, I am hoping you could answer two things:
-Is Armour thyroid medication a problem since it is derived from pig tissue? (I know Matt mentioned that Challen can detect its use further up in the comments.)
-Does the fact that shellfish, nuts and chocolate are some of the foods highest in copper have to do with why they are problematic?
Jannis,
I hope God isn't part of the explanation. I think Matt's trying to collect the objective data. Objective data trumps the explanation in my opinion, but I agree with your statement.
There has been a trend on this blog though of Matt jumping around to different theories/gurus but not having any follow up. I understand the jumping around, as each time he's done so he's felt there has been valuable new insight. Matt is specifically not getting caught up in any one ideology or guru, but collecting as much info as he can to see how it can all fit together.
But there's something missing here, and that something is follow up. We don't know the success rate of Jon Gabriel or Ray Peat. We don't even have criteria for measuring the success rate. And nothing comes back and ties all these things together.
(cont)
If something is true, then it is true always (for example, the protein in chocolate acts like insulin).
I like Jon Gabriel because he says a lot of very common sense things that are completely absent in typical weight loss discussions and he shows those his principles can actually work.
I like RBTI so far because I like the idea of objective measurement to determine quantifiable relationships that can then be applied in real life.
Too often these leads get dropped without any real follow up. The average 180 reader is left with a bunch of mish-mashed ideas. We know a few things to not do and we can debunk some arguments, but it's not going to get us all where we want.
I think there's a place for objective follow-up/discussion/analysis, possibly even setting up some experiments.
I also think God and old testament dietary rules are a part of RBTI. As a Christian, I disagree that we are bound by the dietary rules pertaining to 'unclean' foods in the old testament. There may be other reasons to limit some of those foods.
I had a 30+ min consultation with Challen a few days after Matt ran my tests. Kosher preparation across the board was the recommendation. Some of his advice seemed arbitrary. For instance, in my particular case he said I can have a dessert after my main mid-day meal. That could be cake, pie, cookies, ice cream. He highly recommended 'Marie Callender' pies as being excellent as they are Kosher. I went to the local grocery store and looked at the ingredient list of said pies. They had partially hydrogenated soy bean oils (2x) and lots of other chemical crap. He had just finished telling me that the only oils I should consume were olive oil and corn…and even Fleischmann's Original Margarine is fine! Now, I have been reading labels…like forever, and when I desire dessert at home I have always tended to make them from scratch with basic 'real' ingredients. I will not be buying what I consider crap. Then there is the recommendation to drink skim milk but it is fine to have ice cream. I also don't understand why sea salt is so bad..as we've all understood the mineral content to be beneficial.
I really hope Matt is able to really test how 'real' foods affect the RBTI tests etc. I am not sure I'll be able to buy the test kit although I'd like to get the refractometer at some point. But I have my suspicions still as to the veracity of the how formula as applied to humans as well as the long term affects of some of the dietary recommendations. Interested in Matt's further investigation.
I noticed on the 3 different PH papers that I have that what the manufacturers of those state as the ideal range for both urine and saliva are different from what RBTI ideal…maybe it comes down to averages and times of day. 11 am is the best time of day to test, according to Challen. Ph varies throughout the day.
Challen came up with one of my main concerns – fairly chronic constipation and prescribed a diet and protocol to address this. I will try it for at least a few weeks and see how it 'goes'. As Matt says…this may not be for people who don't have serious health concerns.
I liked the link about the stockbroker story as it may possibly relate to positive testimonies.
@Anon — copper:
I have been wondering the same thing. The foods to avoid are pretty much the same as when a person has a high copper level (mostly due to an inability in the liver to oxidize or slowly oxidize). The lemon water would reduce copper levels due to the vit C and avoiding foods high in copper (and eating foods that are easily digested ["yin in nature" according to my TCM practioner]) would accomplish the task in about 3 months if followed accurately. (I only know this because I had my hair tested about 10 years ago and was diagnosed with a high copper level. I was instructed by an alternative doctor and acupuncturist to follow a low copper diet. Why I didn't think about this earlier is beyond me…)
@ Moi
To quote your words:
Why challen is different than william in what he can do. Which by the way, william works along with the ass who puts hypoglycemics on shit loads of water and says pork is ok. I wouldn't trust him.
One question: Why have you decided to tell lies about me?
Besides that it is not fair, you discredit your name because anyone can read the article about NO-NO's on my site. That not only proofs that I do not say pork is OK, but also explains a bit why.
I would like things to be open, clear and honest. That seems to much to ask.
Moi ~
Just working my way back through comments here, I apologize for the delay.
The refractometer alone, a good one (the cheap ones are no good) costs close to 150.
Yes. The most expensive of the type you're referring to are $150 alone at retail markup; the very same models can be found for $60-$70 wholesale elsewhere.
Please indicate which model/make is the right one, and I will change my estimate.
The reason I am compiling that list is for those who are motivated to try the RBTI but may not be able to afford the entry price; for instance, a group of five or ten people here could get together and buy a set of the right refractometers at wholesale prices.
Even a test kit markup of $150 may be too steep for some–that could be a week's worth of groceries for their family, a month's car payment, or new shoes for their kids.
Could you help me find the right refractometer, with that in mind?
Can I ask why you are so intent to tear down the rbti when you have not even tried it?
Please see my last comment re: my intent. You have misunderstood the meanings of my comment.
I don't understand why you are trying to make Challen out to be a money monger.
Can you please show me where I 'tried to make him out' as a money-monger?
I am truly not interested in making a character judgment on Challen–negative OR positive, financial or otherwise. I appreciate the role of capitalism, the practice of business for a profit, et al in the context of everyday life.
I'm only interested in dollar amounts when it comes to assessing the health of a business entity, and calculating what someone may have to gain (or lose) by making a claim. All of these things are good data to have when assessing health choices, the same way it's good to know how much money a doctor may be receiving from a pharmaceutical company in exchange for recommending its products.
…Also, I also have a somewhat tight budget. Dollar amounts interest me there, too. :-)
He needs to eat and he has bills.
Indeed. Challen's Heavenly Water consultancy in Ohio is recorded as making approximately 110k per year for 14 years. Its current incarnation in Wheeling is reporting at 82k per year. He has a second business in real estate with an approximate revenue of 268k, and he owns a number of investment properties. (Source: Manta.com) I am making a guess, based on cost of living estimates for his area, that he's okay for food and bills. I could very well be wrong, though–life has lots of confounding factors.
HE HAS EVERY RIGHT TO CHARGE FOR THAT!
I agree, absolutely.
Taylor/Hobson
Sorry for the late comment, have been out of the country for a few days.
@ AS, comment July 29 7:32AM;
I do not believe it is the same software, since what I helped to create is online since last November. If you would like to discuss the software you were mentioning with me privately, feel free to use the contact form on the site.
@Brock, comment about the typo;
I could defend myself by stating I am Dutch, and am dyslectic…
But that would stand in the way of saying what I really should: Thank you for pointing that out! The one I found was on the page The Basics->Conductivity->What Conductivity means. If you find another, please let me know.
Trix
I started off trying to only eat 'real food' as you are implying. But all the whole grain flours are hard to digest. It wasn't until I stopped all the whole grains that things really started to improve on my blood sugar.
He meant olive and corn oil are the only oils you should cook with. A little of the others oils in the food ou buy won't hurt you provided you don't eat the same thing all the time, or abuse them in some way. I hae gotten better on the marie calendars pies. We love them at my house.
Now I used to have the WAP mindset as well, so I can sympathize, but this is really so much easier, and works beautifully. but it won't work well if you try to be 'too healthy.' I learned that the hard way. You are welcome to ask any uestions you'd like abou tthat.
Taylor
Sorry if I misinterpretted your intentions. I am tired of the sarcasm. You are more than welcome to ask any questions and I will try to answer. But I will say that I do not know everything. And neither does Challen. But it is as simple as seeing whether a person is gaining or losing energy.
Now I came out to Challen's because, despite doing a lot better than I was, my blood sugar was still a roller coaster. I was having to eat white sugar all day long. I have been here a week, and have only done white sugar about 5 times. Today, I only had to do ONE BITE OF fruit inbetween meals. My blood sugar is stabalizing. challen and I found the issue right away. Too much whole grains!
Trix, this is what I am saying about trying too hard. my numbers are in range a here. where I kept getting constipated at home. I'm eating boxed jello cheesecake. It's kosher.
My arm has not fallen off.
Wiliiam
I do not mean to say you are what the other guy is. But he talks a lot about you. And he has pork on the no list, but then right below says he eats pork if he goes out.
Youa re right, I should not lump you with him. I do not know you. But I do know him and I know A LOT of people he has hurt. People he says he has cured, yet in the same day I can recieve an email from that person saying how sick they are.
I did not mean you are a lier, but the other guy is not trustworthy and does not understand the RBTI. I would question what you do if he is linking himself with you. That is all.
Jannis
Not interested in sparring with you.
To everyone else
I will leave God in as a part of my equation. I will not apologize for that.
Taylor
Challen makes no claims, nor does he advertise outright. All his business is word of mouth. If the business is doing that on word of mouth, would there not be something to that?
As for money issues, I think we are all there in this economy. Challen does try to make things work out for people, whether it's stting them up with someone who already has a test kit or what not. I do offer tests for people in my area. I am willing the do the first and second test for friends and the like. I do know a lot of people who do that.
Sea salt
Think of it this way. Go to the ocean and dip in a cup, and drink up!
Yeah in sea salt you are getting all that. You might as wel eat dirt and hope to pick up mineral. Sea salt has seven different salts. They are CAUSTIC.
Another thought. The titanic they say is being coroded away by the sea water. In ten years, it will no longer exist. If the salts of the ocean can disolve steel, what is it doing in you?
Plus you get to eat all that metal. It's disolved into the water, and therefore into unrefined sea salt.
You can look at all the research you want, and make your own decisions, but as for me and my family, we use absolutely nothing with sea salt in it.
To the anonymous with the question about armour.
Yes it shows in the numbers, and I have listened into many a phone call this past week where Challen has seen that and asked the person if they are on it. You can never have a good set of numbers so long as a person is on anything from the pig unfortunately.
I guess what people in the past have done is go onto the synthetic, and then come off completely. My thyroid was dead. Was supposed to be cut out, but it's there and my levels are perfect now.
Moi
Sorry if this has been covered earlier, but do we just avoid salt all together, or is there an alternative?
Also, I read in one of Challen's articles that corn oil and olive oil are recommended because of the low solvent used in processing. If coconut oil has no solvent used in processing, would this then be ok for cooking?
Moi, Challen says that we are to cook with olive and corn oil….well, the Marie Callender pies were cooked with hydrogenated soy oil. Both are heated whether baked or when you saute.
He did tell me not to use whole grains. I had cut back on grain consumption anyway…generally, I use unbleached white or a mix. I never really liked 100% whole grain stuff anyway.
I have been somewhat into WAP for a few years and have read quite a few of the popular health/paleo etc. blogs It is hard to wrap my head around some of the RBTI stuff. I don't have nearly as serious health concerns as you had, Moi, but I am interested in prevention.
@Moi,
So to settle this once and for all:
You have someone you know (and I probably don't), who eats pork and there are a lot of people he has hurt. And because he talked about me, you jumped to the conclusion that I eat pork, you should question my teachings, and to top it of admit you don't know me and claim your friend is untrustworthy?
May I conclude with the statement that I believe you are funny?
As for the salt discussion: All salts are sea salts. Even the salt they dig out of the mines half a mile deep and hundreds of miles from the ocean they can sell as sea salt.
RBTI does not make much difference in salts, but most teachers even including Dr. Reams himself claim sea salts have the greatest (negative) effect on the body. Almost all salts in the supermarkets are chemically processed salts (and are pure white). Unrefined salts, preferably Celtic sea salt will have very different properties as refined salts (it will elevate the pH instead of lower it, will decrease the blood pressure according to the research by Dr. Brownstein, etc). Dr. Reams spoke of sea salt. But was it the refined (99+ % of all salts humans consume), or did he know about Celtic sea salt? I am personally against refined salts because of health reasons.
It seems that RBTI throws out all current research and only focuses on what a given food does to numbers…but does that take into consideration long term use of some industrial 'food' products? I doubt Challen has even heard of WAP and his research.
I did read on Jim Daily's website that they sell celtic sea salt….and in a video I watched, he believes oils like corn oil are like liquid chemicals due to all the solvents used in the production and recommends oils like that. So, yes, there are discrepancies between the various practitioners. Jim Daily's website has a recipe for veggie burgers loaded with a variety of nuts. Wondering what numbers he gets. I guess I've read just enough to be confused with the whole subject….I guess one needs to suspend disbelief and step out if faith… I guess, Moi, you can't fault it when it has 'worked' for you and you feel like you've had a miraculous recovery.
Moi ~
Thanks for your response. Can you please answer my earlier question? I'd like to know the correct make and model of refractometer.
Challen makes no claims, nor does he advertise outright.
Challen does, indeed, make numerous claims, as you and others have shared in these discussions. There are also many others on his website, and elsewhere, stated directly by him.
And he does indeed use advertising.
(I can quote a sampling of any of the above if you like?)
If the business is doing that on word of mouth, would there not be something to that?
Noting revenue simply means that's his revenue. It says nothing about the efficacy of any treatments, nor does it reflect 'success' or 'healing' in any way. I can give you many examples of businesses and groups that are financially thriving on word-of-mouth referrals, yet which do not live up to their claims or are directly harmful.
You said yourself in a previous comment that according to Challen, "95% turn away". For a business making at least 82k a year, that's an extremely high churn rate. But if that many people start and then turn away from the program, then no — high revenue will not indicate success of the method. If anything, it could point to the opposite.
I am willing the do the first and second test for friends and the like.
Sorry, to clarify — you're not only a consultee, but a practitioner yourself? Do you charge for testing?
Additionally: how does one 'share' a refractometer and testing equipment without sample cross-contamination?
Thanks.
Taylor/Hobson
taylor
No I'm not a practitioner. I'm a client who is offering others a start. I don't know about the refractometers. No worries about cross contamination. As for the rest, ok. Whatever. I have no response.
William
I'm a little shocked.you clark to do the rbti, but then, correct me if I'm wrong, you are saying celtic sea salt is better than table salt? (nacl) don't you see the loss in the numbers?
You have just made my arguement for me. With your ideas on sea salt you have lumped yourself with the rest of the guessers. Celtic sea salt causes the system to shut down. Font you see that in the numbers?
Trix
I don't worry about that stuff. I eat and am getting better. He says olive and corn oil for cooking but a small amount in salad dressing our pie is ok.
Mishkam
Coconut oil is too heavy to break down. Women trend to gave even more trouble than men. Just corn and olive with cooking.
I use lawrys or kosher salt if I need something.
taylor
No I'm not a practitioner. I'm a client who is offering others a start. I don't know about the refractometers. No worries about cross contamination. As for the rest, ok. Whatever. I have no response.
William
I'm a little shocked.you clark to do the rbti, but then, correct me if I'm wrong, you are saying celtic sea salt is better than table salt? (nacl) don't you see the loss in the numbers?
You have just made my arguement for me. With your ideas on sea salt you have lumped yourself with the rest of the guessers. Celtic sea salt causes the system to shut down. Font you see that in the numbers?
Trix
I don't worry about that stuff. I eat and am getting better. He says olive and corn oil for cooking but a small amount in salad dressing our pie is ok.
Mishkam
Coconut oil is too heavy to break down. Women trend to gave even more trouble than men. Just corn and olive with cooking.
I use lawrys or kosher salt if I need something.
Pretty confused at this point.
@Moi
So, if whole grains are difficult to digest, and white flour, white rice and potatoes are on the No list, how does one get enough carbs? Is this low-carb?
I'm starting to wonder the same as Danyelle here. If RBTI says no to potatoes and whole grains, and limited refined grains, and limited fats, what the hell do you eat? We're running out of calorie sources here, and I can't see living on a diet of just brown rice and yams indefinitely.
Before I was thinking this was doable on a diet with a lot of pasta and olive oil, but now I'm pretty unsure what a typical week's worth of meals looks like.
I also have to say I find the oils situation discouraging. One of the very few things I was sure of was that seed oils were lousy for you and butter, coconut and tallow were good. There's still tons of evidence for that too. Moreover, even if corn oil was used medicinally for short periods (gross, but okay) you can't even rely on olive oil sold in stores being genuine. Much of the olive oil sold is fraudulently doctored hazelnut or soybean oil. Is Challan aware of that?
Hmmm. I appreciate the feedback from Moi and others a lot, but right now I have more questions than answers.
destined water? you guys need help… mental help.
The no list is split. There is the absolute no foods and the don't abuse foods. White flour and whole grain flour. If all you do is one our the other you'll have a problem.
I use breads that have a little of both. Make sense? I don't often use 100 percent while grain our 100 percent white.
Yes challen is aware of the oil issue with olive. He can recommend brands. I found myself using a bad olive oil and he saw it in my numbers.
Definitely not low carb. I had the vanilla oreos after turky sandwich lunch.
Whether or not WAP(F) is correct, I can't see how eating things that are not found in nature can be healthy long-term.
I suppose if you're terribly healthy you can easily detoxify from all that nasty garbage. No offense Moi, but vanilla oreos? Ick. Same for the pies. I can't even stand the taste of industrial foods. I've tried to relax about it the last two weeks, with many potlucks, etc, but I find that I end up eating nothing but the junk foods because everything else disgusts me and those are the only things I can barely stand. But then I've cooked everything from scratch for over three years. I feel like crap after each meal out.
I understand it's making the numbers work to eat that stuff, but… it would take some major convincing to get me to eat anything with food dye or vegetable oil or…
I'm also having a hard time believing that coconut oil is hard to digest. If following RBTI is able to keep people healthy LONG term, it goes to show that we know nothing about nutrition.
Moi/Original RBTIer ~
No I'm not a practitioner. I'm a client who is offering others a start.
That's extremely generous of you, and I'm sure people appreciate the help. It seems like being able to explain the test hands-on would be a good way to really illustrate things, too.
Are there any referral agreements? I.e., receiving discounts/free sessions/classes/etc in exchange for referring new clients to Challen?
I don't know about the refractometers.
That's okay, I wasn't looking for a detailed breakdown, just a model name. :-) You could just share which one you use, if it works well? Or maybe find out which kind Pipparoni uses, since she bought her kit from Challen? (Pipparoni, are you still reading along? Would be great if you could share!)
No worries about cross contamination.
That's good… I was more asking how, though. It's a bio sample and you're reusing the refractometer, so — is there some kind of sterilization process other than the water? Or does pee-residue not really matter?
Thanks for taking time with all the questions. :-)
Taylor/Hobson
My 1st and likely only post on this Blog. I’ve read all of the comments/swirl and in an effort to provide something of value I’ll offer a few thoughts based on a great deal of research 3-15 hours/day for the past 3 years and many years of experimentation. I am not a doctor but have a passion for discovering what is optimal for health. I recently read a great book which happens to reflect my understanding based on my research and self experimentation and it may answer many of the questions I’ve seen raised on this Blog. Whether you choose to believe the principles in the book and/or take action is obviously your choice. It is called ?Awakening Our Self Healing Body? by Arthur M. Baker. $10 on Amazon. I’ve read much of the RBTI info. including Challen’s ?The Only Health Guide You Will Ever Need?. My belief is that RBTI can be useful if one wishes to continue many current addictions and feel better, for awhile, but I don’t believe it is a good long term recipe for optimal health. You’ll understand why I say that if you read ?Awakening Our Self Healing Body?. Please don’t ask me to elaborate further. I don't have the time or desire to share sound bites for those to lazy or cheap to get and read the book. If you are interested in optimal health read the book and decide for yourself. I have no affiliation with the book/author/publisher.
Cheers!
lol raw-food-vegan hit-and-run booktroll
what is this, 2001?
thanks for the effort to provide topic-less value while calling anyone who doesn't shell out lazy/cheap.peace out, Joe.
@Moi – Since RBTI can obviously work short term, my main concern is whether it "works" (keeps an individual and their offspring healthy) long term.
Did all of Challen's kids eat this way growing up? Are there any other examples of people who have followed Challen's advice for many years (10+)?
From what Matt says, his kids are beautiful and healthy, so I think that says something.
After that, the hardest part would be trying to wrap our minds around the seemingly non-sensical patterns of which foods increase and decrease energy. (No butter but yes to hydrogenated oils? Sally Fallon would fall over!)
@Moi
Your arguments against sea salt are ridiculous. Doesn't mean you aren't right, but you're not going to convince anyone with that. Maybe you're right using your strategy of just reporting your improvements and not trying to explain things.
Btw, what happened to the records of that patient cured of cancer? Weren't you going to provide them for proof or something? With something like that, Challen could easily get some publicity, don't you think?
What about the !kung san who were mentioned in the comments before, btw? They get most of their calories from nuts, yet I'm not noticing the energy loss… In fact, they are quite healthy. The anthropological record directly contradicts the idea that the "no-foods" negatively affect health overall. It's not like Jews and Muslims are somehow the healthiest people, while traditional Okinawans are the unhealthiest eating seafood and pork. Take Sardinia for example, another longevity island where people eat a lot of seafood.
Joe W – Yawn…zzzzzzzzzzz
Hans – My understanding is that Challen doesn't want any publicity.
Hello,
could someone tell me what this so called "NO Food" list is ? I don't have access to his heavenlywater website ' gives me a php error . I would appreciate a list of the no food.
Best regards
Tim
Moi,
If I see it right, you didn't answer my question: How is it possible that the refractometer measures sugar in a person's urine, if non-diabetic persons don't have sugar in their urine? Does Challen know something about biochemistry the rest of the medical world hasn't yet discovered?
Hans,
I agree with you. I think I would make a huge effort to collect as much data as possible, if I had the ability to cure cancer so that I can publish my results.
For those who are Christians (like me) and believe you should not question anything the Bible says (unlike me): "Have salt in yourselves, and be at peace with one another." Obviously this was unrefined salt.
For everyone else I will start with adding a little explanation to RBTI, for those to who it was not clear yet:
A test gives 7 numbers which can be interpreted to get an estimation on reserve energy (in %), but let’s call that health for now. Serious sickness will usually not occur if health stays above 30%. So we don’t see health as the absence of disease. If you take something that is bad for you, like huge amounts of refined salts, you will most likely not get sick right away, but it decreases your health.
There are many so called rules in RBTI, but one stands out: Always go by the numbers. I believe most testers have seen the negative impact of refined (sea) salts. Most of them have learned that sea salts are not good for human consumption. And since over 99% of all salts we use are refined salts, it does make sense, but may be an incomplete conclusion.
I have personally not seen any negative effect with sparingly use of Celtic sea salt. Besides that, as Trix correctly pointed out, the company that worked together with Carey Reams on creating specific RBTI supplements and is still one of the greatest supporters of RBTI today does sell Celtic sea salt. They may not be consultants, but know a lot about RBTI. Also the 2 retreats I have been to (not as a patient) use unrefined salt because they don’t see negative effect of sparingly usage of that.
Non RBTI related, but still helpful: As I mentioned Dr. Brownstein carefully explains in his book from a hole different perspective why refined salts are bad and why unrefined salts are different.
Hans
Matt is going to interview that woman.he has spoken with her and a meet is planned.
Taylor
I get no compensation unless I were to charge. I do charge after the fist two tests.
Il ask challen if he knows my refractometer. I like mine better than his. There is no pee residue. if I put a stop of distilled water on my refractometer, it reads zero.
Lol lorelei. if you think thats bad, when matt and pip get here today we are having digiorno pizza and boxed cheese cake. Soooooo nummy.
Jannis
You are correct.i didn't bother to answer your question. go research.
I expected that kind of answer
Is the lemon water prescription supposed to be done for the rest of your life or just when trying to get your numbers in the A range? If it is a forever thing then I doubt it is both 'natural' to any of us or sustainable.
@ Jannis
Let’s start easy. Brix is total dissolved solids.
There are all kinds of solids in the urine, but sugars are usually the biggest part. Salts are another contributing factor that should not be overlooked. The UREA’s play a small part of most will overlook them, and that is fine.
The Brix gives an indication of the amount of sugars that are thrown out by the system. But also the availability of oxygen to the organs (this is a little bit more complicated but for now will do). So basically the Brix gives an indication of the potential amount of energy in the system.
Without energy in your system there is no life. So obviously even the ones who depend on insulin (which is a salt by the way) will have a Brix reading that can be interpreted as long as you combine it with a full set of numbers. With that said I should also say that some in RBTI will not consult or treat people on insulin.
"Let’s start easy. Brix is total dissolved solids. There are all kinds of solids in the urine, but sugars are usually the biggest part"
That is false. A person with normal sugar control has no sugar in the urine. If you have sugar in your urine, that is a strong sign of developing diabtes.
What do you actually mean by sugar? Sucrose, Glucose, Fructose, Lactose, galactose???
How does Brix measure the availability of oxygen to the organs?
I can email Challen's actual No-No Food list…
@ Jannis
Brix measures almost all carbohydrates including all sugars you mentioned.
The sugar in the blood determines how much oxygen the blood can contain.
Jannis
There is the reason I did not bother to answer. You already know every thing.
"Think of it this way. Go to the ocean and dip in a cup, and drink up!"
Sea water is only 3.5% salt. Drinking sea water is not the same to eating sea salt.
"Yeah in sea salt you are getting all that."
No you're not. Sea salt is 85% plus sodium chloride. The rest is water, sulfates, borates and carbonates various trace minerals.
"They are CAUSTIC."
No, they're not.
"Another thought. The titanic they say is being coroded away by the sea water. In ten years, it will no longer exist."
It's dissolved oxygen in the water that causes the steel to rust. The salts facilitate the rusting process.
"Plus you get to eat all that metal. It's disolved into the water, and therefore into unrefined sea salt."
Iron oxides are insoluble in water, so they won't be present in sea salt.
Moi,
No I don't. For example, I don't kow how a refractometer measures sugar in the urine. That's why I ask this question again and again, so that one of you RBTI people finally decides to explain it to me.
Jacqueline,
Why does the blood sugar determine how much oxygen can be in the blood stream? Do you have any proof for that?
And that still doesn't answer my question what you mean when you say the ref. measures "sugar" in the urine.
@ trix –
Please email the "no no" list to me
k3anderson @ gmail.com
Thank you
Trix,
is it possible to email you on your website and email me back Challen's No-No food list?
thank's,
Sophia
@ Trix,
since we have the same chronic problem (no doctor has been able to help no matter the diet), I 'd like to have a look at the diet protocol he gave you.
if you are willing to share it my email is
villi2009@yahoo.com.
again thank you.
Sophia
Simon
Enjoy your sea salt.
Jannis
Jaqueline was very nice to take the time to explain. But you jumped back at her right away telling her she us wrong. You are not interested in learning, just arguing. That is why I don't waste my time answering your questions.
Taylor
A phone call would be easier to discuss efractometers. I spoke with challen and carolyn this am about them. Mine is much better and more expensive than what comes with their kit. I like mine better and so do they. They can't get the one I have under 100 and that would drive the kit cost up. If you know how to get these wholesale, marthe we could get the kit cost down. I got my kit from somewhere else, and I paid more than what challen charges. Carolyn is willing to try and I would love to make this available to more people. I'm at challens office til saturday. Lets see if we can't get the cost down.
My refractometer comes from pike, but I don't know name our model number.
Moi
You're obviously not interested in learning either. Enjoy spreading your fictitious science.
@jacqueline..
"Sugars" are the SMALLEST part of dissolved solids present in urine, if present at all
Insulin is not a salt…. LOL its a peptide hormone
Everyone who's tried to explain any RBTI chemistry at all sounds like they need to aspend some quality time with Bill Nye The Science Guy
Moi,
I'm sorry but you are providing horrible explanations. You are making inferences about sea salt that are not valid. For example assuming sea salt will have the same effect inside the body that sea water does on metals immersed in it. Thankfully Simon straightened some of that out.
Also, Jannis was not just arguing with Jacqueline for the sake of arguing. He was stating fact.
http://benjimester.hubpages.com/hub/Sugar-in-Urine
I don't think he should be faulted for that. It's up to Jacqueline and you to revise your explanations.
Moi, and also William,
All this talk of "energy levels" is meaningless. I would say a very obese person has large amounts of "reserve energy" and thus "high energy levels". I notice Matt is a lot more specific when he talks about energy and metabolism, using phrases like energy available to cells or mitochondrial activity. RBTI should be equally specific.
I know "energy levels" is based on the numbers but it is not clear what that truly represents. How optimally your body is running? What level of health you are at? Please elaborate on this.
…seven special sugars…
seven caustic salts….
six days to recover from bad foods, and on the seventh day you're "healed"….
Does anyone else see biblical numerology in the mix….
Moi,
I think the reason you don't "waste your time" with explaining things to me is that you have absolutely no idea how to explain them.
I didn't jump back at Jacqueline, I simply asked her another question because the answer she gave me didn't explain what I wanted to know. It amazing how much you take simple questions as a personal attack.
Why don't you just answer critical questions instead of beeing pissed off by every person who doesn't immediately think that the RBTI thing could be the greatest thing on earth.
Some people just need a bit more than some pseudo-scientific stuff and a few stories and anecdotes from people they have never met.
Again, you wanna tell how the refractometer measures sugar in your urine?
Simon
I know the things you talk about. I have researched alot, but there are no results, and no understanding of how the body works as a system. This program doesn't just take into account one hormone, or, I guess even five. Now, the numbers can show specific issues, but it takes into account how the ENTIRE SYSTEM is running.
I have read a lot of stuff. Scientific stuff. I aced biology. There is a lot of stuff you can say with a good amount of science backing, that makes a lot of sense. But there is no understanding. This just can't fit into the standard paradigm. I know that frustrates a lot of you. It frustrates me that I can't explain it.
But it works. Beautifully.
I am not just alive when I should have died. I am THRIVING.
I gave Matt my cancer friends info. He has already spoken to her, and she is going to let him see all the medical tests before and after. She was supposed to be dead six years ago.
Look, all I can give you is what I am learning here. I can't fit it into the standard process. That is why I got Matt involved. Hoping he can explain it, cause I can't and Challen can't.
I would ask all of you to ut your anger and even, well, 'knowledge' aside and try to see something differently. I knw many of you will fire back at me for that, but it's all I can offer.
you can take it or leave it. I am not going to try to prove anything with double blind studies or whatever. It's not needed because you can see it in the numbers. It just doesn't work that way.
To those of you who want proof. I can't give it to you. But I can say that if you did it, even for 2 or 3 months, you would see the pattern.
Sorry ahead of time to those who will be angered by this. But maybe you could look at things from a different perspective yourselves. You people come here looking for answers to your own health woes. You have so much knowledge, and so sure of what you know. Yet most of you are still ill. Maybe it's your beliefs that keep you in that state?
And now you can tear me up…
Moi, doesn't your refractometer have a model number on it or can't you go to the Pike Lab site and see your account and the one you ordered…or just recall from their site which one you picked? I believe they have 2 that they recommend for RBTI…one mainly for urine and saliva and the other includes being able to test foods brix as well as urine and salvia.
Jannis, I have made it clear that I DON'T KNOW! And I don't care to research it. It is a waste of my time. All I care about is that it works, and I want to learn the system. Not insignificant stuff like. If you want the answer so bad, and Jaqueline's info is "false," as you stated, then go find the explanation for yourself.
I used to black out and have seizures. Meds couldn't stop it. Since the refractometer, no more, because when I drop to zero, I can eat sugar and the seizure never comes on. I have not had a seizure since. ANd I no longer drop that low.
That's all I can give you, now go spend your time finding out why if that is what you want to do.
I get angry cause you want me to do the research for you. I have better things to do. Like go make some pizza.
Trix, I have the automatic one. Carolyn just called to clarify. It costs 111$ I believe
moi… :(
that's really saddening…you just told a bunch of smart, curious open minded people to basically get lost… just for asking questions and bringing up research…. which is what 180 is all about…
They're doing research FOR you to look for supporting infos… and coming up empty-handed
if you don't care to research anything and you think information is a waste of time, pplease stop acting like you know everything and everyone else is wrong….
everyone has heard your personal experience many many times now, you don't have to repeat it
saying "I dont care to research anything or share the information i have, but you are WRONG" is nnot helping your case.
Moi, William, Trix, and any others who have experience with RBTI:
I had an interesting experience yesterday. I was at a neighborhood BBQ yesterday and was speaking to an older couple who lived down the street. Somehow the topic of nutrition came up and I threw out that I was learning about RBTI / the work of Carey Reams. Surprisingly, this couple had not only heard of it, but had close experience with it. Their story made me think:
Although they themselves were not experts on the system and had never tried it, a couple of their family members have apparently been strict RBTIers for years. Granted, these folks I was talking with had a limited understanding of RBTI, but they did impart that their siblings who "did RBTI" began to devolve into a more and more obsessive pattern the more they tried to follow the diet. They shared that it was a strain on their family, and ultimately came to a head when their 90+ year old father who was dying of cancer was being torn between siblings who were trying to get him to drink quarts of lemon water / follow RBTI and those that thought that was too much. It didn't help that dad didn't seem super keyed up to chug lemonade all day.
I hesitated to tell this story, one because it is third-hand, and two because I realize that an uneducated couple could be ommitting important details (I.e. Whether their siblings were truly following a legit RBTI practitioner, if they were hybridizing it, etc). I think it is an interesting story though because it relays the non-nutrition geek's perspective / experience of the program.
The reason I chose to post this story was to ask if you guys had anything to share as to whether or not you had heard of RBTI becoming "all-consuming" with people to where it began to fracture relationships. Anything can be taken to the extreme, but as I understand it, RBTI is inherently pretty "extreme" in that it calls for very strict adherence to a program, especially if one is a ways down the road toward disease.
This is not a post questioning or supporting the efficacy of the program. I want to believe it. Heck, I already bought the kit. This is more a question regarding how living an RBTI lifestyle affects other aspects of one's life – primarily that of relationships with those who do not hold to the same beliefs. In your experience, is it common that practicing RBTI causes rifts in relationships or ostracizes those pursuing it? Are there ways to minimize this collateral damage without compromising the effectiveness of the program?
I appreciate you guys' willinss to come on and share your thoughts/experience. It's too bad that things descend into bickering sometimes, but know that many of us are interested in what you have to say and look forward to evaluating it for ourselves.
Ty
Moi, is it the Vee Gee series X-BTX-1?
That one lists for $111.99. Accuracy to 0.2%. (I've found others online that state accuracy of 0.1%)
It sure doesn't seem like there would be that much difference in the ones from China or on Ebay like the RHB-10ATC which is 1-10 or 1-32 ATC. The one Matt has from Challen's kit is a black one, 1-32% ATC that looks similar to many on Ebay…but I didn't note the full model number which was on the outside of the case. And most of them have ATC which is Automatic Temperature Compensation.
Moi, William, Trix, and any others who have experience with RBTI:
I had an interesting experience yesterday. I was at a neighborhood BBQ yesterday and was speaking to an older couple who lived down the street. Somehow the topic of nutrition came up and I threw out that I was learning about RBTI / the work of Carey Reams. Surprisingly, this couple had not only heard of it, but had close experience with it. Their story made me think:
Although they themselves were not experts on the system and had never tried it, a couple of their family members have apparently been strict RBTIers for years. Granted, these folks I was talking with had a limited understanding of RBTI, but they did impart that their siblings who "did RBTI" began to devolve into a more and more obsessive pattern the more they tried to follow the diet. They shared that it was a strain on their family, and ultimately came to a head when their 90+ year old father who was dying of cancer was being torn between siblings who were trying to get him to drink quarts of lemon water / follow RBTI and those that thought that was too much. It didn't help that dad didn't seem super keyed up to chug lemonade all day.
I hesitated to tell this story, one because it is third-hand, and two because I realize that an uneducated couple could be ommitting important details (I.e. Whether their siblings were truly following a legit RBTI practitioner, if they were hybridizing it, etc). I think it is an interesting story though because it relays the non-nutrition geek's perspective / experience of the program.
The reason I chose to post this story was to ask if you guys had anything to share as to whether or not you had heard of RBTI becoming "all-consuming" with people to where it began to fracture relationships. Anything can be taken to the extreme, but as I understand it, RBTI is inherently pretty "extreme" in that it calls for very strict adherence to a program, especially if one is a ways down the road toward disease.
This is not a post questioning or supporting the efficacy of the program. I want to believe it. Heck, I already bought the kit. This is more a question regarding how living an RBTI lifestyle affects other aspects of one's life – primarily that of relationships with those who do not hold to the same beliefs. In your experience, is it common that practicing RBTI causes rifts in relationships or ostracizes those pursuing it? Are there ways to minimize this collateral damage without compromising the effectiveness of the program?
I appreciate you guys' willinss to come on and share your thoughts/experience. It's too bad that things descend into bickering sometimes, but know that many of us are interested in what you have to say and look forward to evaluating it for ourselves.
Ty
TJK….. Interesting story…. to get a good answer to that question you can't really ask people who are prosthelitizing (sp?) RBTI as the cure all. they will try to rationalize/cherry pick.. maybe without knowing it.. because that would make RBTI look bad.
To really answer that question you need to ask people who left RBTI after trying it, people who struggled w/ the rules, family members, non-RBTI freinds of patients, therapists, etc
Ty, My husbands has already told me he is not on board with RBTI and is concerned that if I get too into it that it will be a problem for our relationship….from what little he knows of it he thinks it is Kooksville/cultlike and he is not interested in giving up some of his favorite foods which are on the No-No list.
He has been supportive of other dietary changes I've somewhat imposed on him because he could see the sense in them like WAP…or more whole foods..cutting the 'junk foods'…which helped him lose some weight.
I am still cautiously 'researching' and trying out some recommendations but still very skeptical for long term use. Now…if I was on death's door…I may be jumping in with both feet to give it a go…but I am not.
I am interesting in sustainable good health and prevention…and the jury is still out on that. Looking forward to Matt's objective observations as time goes on.
@trix: i'd like the NO-foods list, too. maybe you could convince matt to post it on the blog if he isn't already planning to do that. if it's not super long, why not put it here in this comment thread? everyone here wants it anyway.
@moi, or anyone else on the program: what i'd like to know is how much of the foods you are instructed to eat are you allowed to eat? if challen says eat pie, is it one piece or as much as you feel like eating? does he tell you specifically what foods to eat every day or just a general guideline and then you have to figure out which foods will be of most benefit to you? what is it about the recommended food that is so beneficial–is it that they contain certain minerals or something? (i understand you have said it's what shows in the numbers, but i wondered if there was anything else specifically in the ingredients)
i think at least for me why i have a hard time believing that industrial food can heal a person is b/c it seems like there is nothing in said food that the body can actually use. but i am willing to set aside my own health knowledge and try to wrap my head around these new "rules" about nutrition. i think what also gets people is that those who are in a diseased state are getting better on "junk" and those of us who seem to be doing okay are trying to eat the best foods and avoid the "junk" and we're just hoping we can live a long time without "catching" anything. haha.
and what would challen say about how our ancestors ate? and i'm talking about my grandparents in the 30's, 40's and 50's. (b/c they had "real" food and not a whole lot of "junk" to choose from) is how they ate completely wrong? did those who died of cancers and "old age diseases" die b/c of the food they ate? or is it b/c of our new modern age that we have to rethink how food affects the body and thus work with our numbers and live within those parameters no matter how deluded the ideas may seem?
again, like i said way earlier, i sure hope matt lives up to his promise of writing furiously about rbti. now that july is over how much longer will he stay with it? i don't care as much for personal success stories as i do the whole approach. it's obvious that most people here are confused and it's disappointing that matt has not risen to the challenge of answering all of our questions, no matter how "weird" the answers might be.
First of all: I believe most in RBTI are taught that insulin is a salt. I was taught that also. Please do not question the best intentions of others sharing what they are taught.
I googled the insulin salt issue, and came up with quite a number of hits. But since most of them were RBTI related and probably used the same source as my teachings, most here won’t see that as evidence.
As far as the Brix-oxygen story goes: First you need to compare the Brix to the other numbers, especially the conductivity to get an idea of the carbohydrates that is part of the Brix. After that you would get an idea of the potential energy. The higher the amount of carbohydrates, the more cells will be ?forced? to take that in, and the body tries to correct that with building specific cells that can take in more sugar-like carbohydrates as normal cells (let’s call them fat-cells for now).
The body does that because relative high concentrations of sugars in cells prevent them from absorbing oxygen from the blood (so I am not saying the oxygen is not in the blood, just that the cells can’t absorb it).
@AaronF
Thank you for making perfectly clear where the problem is. Still, like Moi said, some things are a bit difficult to explain. I am going to try it anyway, with a childish example (sorry about that, don’t mean to be disrespectful).
Compare an obese person with a truck transporting ten thousand gallons of fuel. And running 1 on 4. How far does it get before it runs out of fuel? Are you sure the fuel it is transporting can be transferred to the tank of the truck and is the right fuel?
When the body creates fat-cells it does so because it can’t handle the current chemistry and temporarily stores it to deal with it when it has more of the right minerals to keep the body chemistry in balance. And besides fats, it will usually also store toxins, just to get the chemistry a little better. Hopefully one day it will have the energy to correct the body chemistry completely and deal with the content of the fat-cells, but that would require energy if the body wants to do it right.
Starving yourself aka doing a diet, will force your body to use the fat-cells since they do contain some energy, but upsets the chemistry even more because it needs a lot of minerals to bind it to.
So basically reserve energy is about mineral content, and not fat content. I found obese people usually not being that high in reserve energy.
When ?doing? RBTI you will gain in reserve energy and your body will use that to deal with things from the past, like the over storage of fats. People get closer to their natural weight. For most Americans that may be less then they weigh, but the anorexia like models will gain some.
My apologies if I am still not clear.
C?mon people, do a little observation and critical thinking. You don’t need anyone to tell you what promotes health and what doesn’t, unless you just want someone to tell you what you want to hear, instead of knowing the truth, which is readily available to all right now with a little clear thinking. The truth is always simple when we don’t cloud it with our biases and beliefs or someone else’s. I wonder if any of the Anonymous comments are Matt steering the Blog and creating an environment conducive to its proliferation.
@william-
err…Nobody's questioning your intentions.
YOu can have the very best of intentions and still be very very mis-informed.
Insulin is a peptide hormone.
Salt is a dietary mineral. In the case of chemistry- a salt is an ionic compound. insulin doesn't fall into either of these, or even close..
if you don't agree with what insulin is (a peptide HORMONE, not a salt) then how can anyone even know if what RBTi is talking about or measuring is insulin?
if RBTI says a salt is anything like insulin, how can we trust that the method even knows what it's talking about on any chemical issue?
salt classifcation is high school level chemistry 101.
we don't need childish analogies about trucks or the Titanic.. lots of people here have been reading and researching for years. we know our bodies aren't trucks or boats.
@Ty
You know you are asking a difficult question, and the answer you get will be more a personal answer than a fact.
Some get with the program and forget the CS. The equation for perfect health (PH) = CS + 1.5 6.4/6.4 6-7C .04M 3/3.
CS stands for Common Sense, despite that it does not seem to be common these days. I believe respect is one of the ingredients of Common Sense.
About four years ago I had someone close who had cancer, and since it was in an early stage, I felt that there was a pretty good chance of complete recovery using RBTI. I hesitated and still decided to ask if that person would be interested in an alternative. The answer was very clear. So after half a year the Chemo started, combined with the radiation and little over half a year later there was the funeral. ?Nothing could have been done?, this person ‘tried everything?. To make it worse the last months were really terrible. The memory of how I felt when I left the hospital still makes me sad.
My believes and another person’s believes may not be the same. Sometimes we just don’t have a clue what the other means, or sometimes the other is so convinced a discussion is not possible. Trust me, I know. I am like that sometimes and it takes one to know one.
But what that leaves us is respect. We all have the control over our own live, or at least we should have. Respect the decisions from others, even if you are convinced they are wrong. If you can, have an open an honest discussion, if not, show respect.
The other factor that plays a role is that some feel pretty bad and RBTI makes them feel good. If they do not stick with it, they feel bad again. So for some that may sound like an addiction. Some take it to the extremes and without respect you will not only hurt yourself, but also the ones around you.
@ Anonymous with the ?RBTI as the cure all? comment.
Keep in mind that there are some who only followed RBTI the day before their appointment with the consultant, but not the rest of the week. Those will say it just does not work. And there are many more reasons people will not stick with the program. Another aspect is that I do not believe (or actually hope) that there are consultants who see it as THE way. It is A way, and the best I know, but not the only way to gain in health.
But nevertheless, your comment needed to be said. So: Good point!
Moi
Not exactly sure why you singled me out. I'm not discounting your or anyone else's testimonial. If RBTI works for you, great, I'm happy for you.
I am open minded, so are most of the other people who read this blog, otherwise they wouldn't be here. In the grand scheme of things, I know very little, and it's no bother for me to say that.
But there are two problems here.
One is your super defensive attitude when people have been trying to find out more about RBTI.
Example:
You say sea salt will kill you –> people ask why –> you state incorrect facts about sea salt –> someone corrects you –> you get defensive
So avoiding sea salt works for you. Great – but that doesn't make it right to spread misinformation about sea salt.
Secondly, there has been a great avoidance of answering basic questions.
If there's no sugar in urine, (which there shouldn't be unless you're diabetic) what is the sugars number actually measuring? That has been asked repeatedly, but no answer.
All–
I'm surprised that no one else has mentioned the copper aspect of the "no" foods and "don't abuse" foods, and the drinking of the lemon water. I brought it up yesterday, but this is eerily similar to a diet I was on 10 years ago by my alt doctor/acupuncturist. I'm curious if anyone in the RBTI end of the pool has any research into copper oxidation and if that may in actuality what is being tested in the refractometer. The inability to oxidize properly (either too fast or too slow) can mimic many other health problems because the tissues affected are in the brain and liver/adrenals/kidneys. I had to do quite a bit of research into it a long time ago, and I hadn't thought too much about it until recently.
I don't have any interest in joining the current debate or choosing sides; I'm just curious.
Perfect Health = Common Sense + 1.5 6.4/6.4 6-7C .04M 3/3
love that equation… what it's basically saying is that even if your numbers are perfect an you're doing everything right, your ""Common Sense" must be off…. so your less-than-perfect health is your fault.
Hey, William…. whats the rest of Common Sense? wouldn't happen to involve a certain religion or following the Bible, would it?
Rhetorical question: why do all the most assinine comments come from Anons?
?—————
Jannis, Taylor,
No one really knows how gravity works either. All we have is a theory and I bet it'll be good for belly laughs and not much else in the 23rd century. Let's leave Moi off the hook on trying to explain the RBTI, because any theory that starts with denying cellular division is going to sound like crazy-talk to anyone who has a more "traditional" understanding of biology (regardless of who is correct). And Moi isn't even a theorist anyway.
Personally I'm just waiting for more empirical evidence to roll in. That's why the only really useful comments here are from Dori and Moi (and that's when they limit themselves to their personal experiences.
Vanilla oreos sounds gross.
———–
Ty,
Picking on RBTI for causing division and strife within a family isn't fair. Any difference in practice will cause that. The fights I got into with my in-laws over how my son should be treated/raised came within inches of physical blows or divorce, and RBTI had nothing to do with it.
Nor did RBTI have anything to do with the fights my Mom got into with her sisters over their father's health and care as he slowly died of multi-symptom Metabolic Disorder. That was driven by my Mom's "crazy" ideas about curing MD with a 180/paleo approach to diet. That's just what happens when you mix strong emotions with strong (different) opinions.
Everyone!
Matt has returned. I've just finished teaching him how to properly dip his blonde oreos in milk.. He's getting settled and will respond shortly.
Oh, and we we eating banana cakes and trying to pronounce the ingredients.
@Anonymous who did not like the childish analogies
Since I already got you that far that you believe me about the RBTI teachings saying insulin is a salt, I may get you as far as believing that I have had my share of science, aced biology, chemistry, physics and math. So hopefully you trust me when I say that I know at least a bit about chemistry 101.
I simply stated that my (RBTI) teachings say insulin is a salt, without giving my personal opinion about it. But since most in RBTI follow the teachings and for quite a few that states not to take clients who regularly use insulin, they either believe it or just let it be and go on.
When I did not completely understood the theory of ionization (I am not as smart as I would like…), I went to two open minded top-chemists. It was fun to see how even one mistake can cause some to expel the whole thing, without any hesitation. If you are someone like that, or someone who will give it a couple of more chances; I would not bother.
A much simplified version of my personal opinion is as follows:
RBTI provides a test that gives a set of important numbers for your health. Those numbers can be interpreted to form a dietary advice or even an indication of what a person has eaten and what organ is under the most stress, depending on the skill of the interpreter. And it contains a theory which is invented by one person and written down by a number of others. And all the versions I have read are filled with mistakes. I do not mean the theory is wrong, I do not mean someone who wrote things down did not get it, I simply mean that for me it seems that what is written contains multiple mistakes.
@Anonymous who loves the equation.
There are some who do not get the point of eating a wide variety of foods for instance. If you are following a ?healthy? diet which gives no variation, your numbers may go from very low to very high. But in the middle they may stabilize a moment on ?perfect?. So that person would not have a clue about why allergies form and health is decreasing.
Common Sense is also about how you live. Our mind changes the body just like the body also changes the mind. That is why it makes sense. The placebo effect is a far better example of that as religion.
Does anybody think about the idea that maybe people are feeling better because they're now allowed to gorge out on oreos, Marie Callendars pies, Digiornio's pizza and milkshakes and coke and store-bought cheesecake and they have a "sciencey" system that backs them up?
Our two main pro- testimonials did years doing starvation raw food/vegan/extreme anorexia stuff as well as all sorts of other restrictive diets. Matt's been there too right?.
I'd be happy as a clam chowing down on that stuff too, after a decade of bouncing around vegetarian, WAPF, VLC, paleo, etc….
@ last anon (why won't commenters give themselves names to relate to?) who said
maybe people are feeling better because they're now allowed to gorge out on oreos, Marie Callendars pies, Digiornio's pizza and milkshakes and coke and store-bought cheesecake
What really puzzles me is why, when there are so many great and delicious things to eat in the world, people want to eat this cr@p. Occasionally, maybe, but not as a staple. Isn't homemade so much nicer and satisfying and varied?
My theory on this stuff and I am probably way of base so…..a fish tank thrives when its super stable.Some fish are super adaptable to varying conditions while other fish are super sensitive to change.Take for example brackish water fish compared to some of the are and expensive saltwater fish you can buy that need a tank that is perfect or they get diseased fast.
I think humans are like brackish water fish in that we can thrive under different conditions but like brackish water fish we thrive when our bodies are not constantly changing in a few stats.PH,salt levels and blood sugar levels are what come to mind in the human body and are very important in fish tanks also.
Stay with me here……Is RBTI bringing the body into a steady state where important health factors are held constant.If you look at people that eat the same thing day in and day out they all seem to have good health.Eskimos to Remember that the human body undercompensates and overcompensates its hormones to keep the body stable right??
Example is you overeat salt and you bloat out and the next day your kidneys flush the water like crazy.Now here is the thing….the next day people eat differently and then the body is now overflushing electrolytes out and they are eating less sodium etc.The body is constantly fighting for balance but the diet is always changing….hence stressing the body and its never in balance.
If you go and eat the same food day in and out what happens…the body will either up regulate or down regulate its various mechanisms it has at hand to balance the body and if you stick with the same foods it will balance itself for that food intake(salt,sugar etc) and be healthy or as healthy as can be with the incoming food.
Is this maybe what the RBTI is doing and so if you eat the same food day in and out you will get similiar benefit?
Distilled water with lemon added to it will balance out the PH perfectly….or omit the lemon if one tends to an alkaline condition.Challen says to stay away from certain foods but is he just throwing stuff out there to hide what he is really doing? Brown rice but no white??Yams but no white potatoes?No tap water?No pork but eat Marie callender pies?
There is one thing about the Reams-Challen story that doesn't make sense to me. Matt said that Challen is the only one who has figured out how to interpret the numbers, and that he had to figure them out BY HIMSELF. Reams apparently did not teach him how to read the numbers correctly – and by Matt, he didn't teach any of his other either. How is this possible? If Reams himself was able to read the numbers, why didn't he teach any of his students how to do it? Matt said that he is already catching on to how to read the numbers, so it can't be that hard to learn. Why didn't Challen learn it when he was studying under Reams? Why didn't Reams' other students pick up on it? Or did Reams not know how to read the numbers himself? Did he receive the numbers from God, but not the key to use them? If so, how could he heal people including himself?
Great questions. What many people don’t bother to ask is “how many of Reams’ classes did Challen actually go to?”
He’s not a Reams student. He only attended a few, went off on his own. If you want true Reams info, talk to the people that Reams himself passed the torch to. Those are the people that should be trusted.
Matt ~
Hope you get a chance to read this. I'd like to reiterate Michael's earlier suggestion that you turn off anonymous posting, for the sake of the forum. The nameless drive by situation is getting aggravating.
Various Anonymii ~
The grown-ups are trying to have a discussion, as it were. If you actually have something worthwhile you want to discuss, get a name or sign-in.
Moi/Original RBTIer ~
Thanks for checking. It should be quite simple; the brand name (Vee Gee or Atago, if from Pike) should be on the side/bottom of your refractometer, along with the model number. Or ask the folks at Challen's office which model they sell with the test kit. And/or ask Pipparoni which kind she has, since apparently she's now there with you and Matt? Thank you. :-)
Brock ~
It's interesting that you addressed Jannis and I together, considering the fact that he has been having an entirely different conversation than what I've been discussing.
Is there something you'd like to address to me directly?
Re: your 'hook' comment, since you seem to think it was relevant to me: I have only asked Moi questions after asking her politely (see above) whether it was okay for me to do so. She graciously agreed that she was open to answering them. If she would like me to stop asking questions, I trust she'll tell me. I can appreciate your concern, but you seem to have misread our exchanges.
Thanks for your thoughts otherwise. You've brought up some interesting, well-written viewpoints. :-)
Taylor/Hobson
Red flags everywhere. It is not uncommon at all for completely bogus psuedoscience-based interventions to have many people giving sincere testimonials supporting their wonderful benefits. They prove nothing! The body is always trying to heal itself. For people with health problems how they feel fluctuates periodically. That in addition to the placebo effect can explain a lot of this. As for miraculous recoveries from serious medical conditions I'm afraid concrete proof is needed. This is really becoming a bit ridiculous. In order to believe those who claim to have experienced great benefits from eating ordinary foods I think that a reasonable person would demand proof. For those who are critical of us skeptics I think you really need to snap out of it. If this works it doesn't matter if you are skeptical. I sometimes think that people who may be feeling a little bit better are afraid that if they start to doubt the efficacy of RBTI all the benefits will suddenly disappear. It doesn't work that way. If the benefits disappear when you become skeptical then the benefits didn't come from the treatment. If the treatment has real benefits those benefits will be there regardless of whether you are skeptical. There is a lot of vague terminology that is really not used in a scientifically correct manner. That is typical of pseudoscience. For example the word 'energy' is really not being used in a coherent and consistent way. Energy is contained in the chemical bonds of molecules and is released when those bonds are broken. This is how organisms use energy. The 'loss of energy' talked about here makes no sense. It is not a loss of energy.
Also you really need to wonder why, if these ideas are so effective, they aren't in widespread use. All the usual excuse making about a conspiracy by the vested interests is another hallmark of pseudo-scientific gurus. It's really a bunch of nonsense. Real physicians use simple cheap remedies for ailments all the time. There is no conspiracy keeping the world from knowing the benefits of kosher junk food or lemon water or the avoidance of pork and chocolate. At some point the paranoia and excuses become ridiculous and the excuses for the lack of scientific evidence about anything to do with RBTI and the lack of its widespread use are way past that point. On top of that the idea that a Real Estate guy in Wheeling WV is the only one on the planet who has 'cracked the code' of RBTI beggars belief. Real, effective interventions don't have a 'code' to be cracked or anything mysterious about them. Sometimes they are complicated, like brain surgery, but they are not mysterious. In summary I think a lot more skepticism is in order here.
BTW, I'm a different Taylor than the comment before me.
Other-Taylor ~
Hello again. Nice name, though it's a confusing one.
May I ask if you're planning on continuing to participate in the conversation? If so, you and I need to figure out the name situation for clarity. :-)
Taylor/Hobson
I'll just change mine to TMS.
TMS ~
Thanks, it's appreciated.
I was about ready to duel you for it. :-)
Taylor/Hobson
To Matt's loyal readers, who I know he loved very much. I have some terrible news to report about Matt.
Matt was tragically killed by a bear while out hiking on Sunday.
That's not funny…
did it eat him?
i wonder what that would do to its "numbers"
this sounds like bullshit. it better be!
It seems either Moi or "Elaine" is misleading the group –
Moi – Matt has returned. I've just finished teaching him how to properly dip his blonde oreos in milk.. He's getting settled and will respond shortly.
Oh, and we we [sic] eating banana cakes and trying to pronounce the ingredients.
August 3, 2011 1:04:00 PM MDT
Unless he's there in spirit.
Not amusing from either of you, anyway.
@Trix
Could you e-mail me the NO-NO Food list ? justseth@europe.com
Thanks in advance
Jim
I can totally get on board with the testing aspect of this, getting numbers into perfect healing range so the body can heal, remineralize.
I can believe that certain foods will help you get there or take you out of the range of which may be very person specific (a la RUBINS).
No one can deny the benefits of common sense neither.
So what on earth is remineralizing or common sensical about bragging on eating pizzas, oreos and banana cakes with apparent unclassified super chemicals in it.
The basic list of no foods just screams bogus as it is from what I have seen but even that wouldn't annoy me as much as the fact that people are bragging about eating junk, instead of say butter.
Does not look like common sense to me.
Common sense to me stipulates that eating a variable whole "real" food diet in accordance with your own numbers seems very logical. I would love this.
Just wish their was not all the rest of the religious, junk food, wishy washy hoo haa baggaged along with it.
PS. My favourite pizza has pork on it.
@Lee,
This may not be the answer you want, but maybe it will do. If you have someone who eats the standard American diet and feels not that great, and reads somewhere that fruit and fruit juices are very good for a person’s health, some will stop everything and switch exclusively to fruits an fruit juices, and will start feeling better. For a while?
But after a while they come to me because they feel worse as they did when they started. And I tell them to stop eating the fruits they believe are so healthy. At that point I will give them some guidelines, but I would not care much if they ate some banana cakes, or other things some call junk food. At least not until some common sense comes back and they truly understand what one of the rules means:
Safety is in the variety.
There really are people who eat a very small range of ?healthy? foods for more than 10 years and have no idea where their problems come from. For those I do not care what they eat, as long as it is a variety (considering their numbers are not too far off). Even on junk foods, which is a variety for them and contains different vitamins and minerals as they normally get in, they will feel better, but most important it will get them off the fixed focus of their previous narrow diet. For everyone else, real foods are the best thing.
As far as the no-no’s: who’s version do you mean? And with what foods do you mean? I tried to make some sense of some of them in the RBTI info article about no-no foods. Please let me know which part is not clear, so I can try to do a better job.
William
"We know it contains vitamins, but it hardly contains any minerals that can be absorbed by our bodies."
Potatoes do contain a decent amount of magnesium, copper, potassium and manganese.
WILLIAM- that page says potatoes with red skin are ok but potatoes with white skin are not. Why are potatoes with red skin ok? Doesn't the white color on the inside still make them "white" potatoes? If not why doesn't the NO NO list specify white "skin" potatoes rather than just "white" potatoes? Its confusing. I don't see how skin color makes a difference. If it does can you tell us why and specifically which potatoes are ok to eat and which are considered "white" potatoes please? Thanks.
millions of healthy and hard working irish poeple lived almost exclusively on a bland, watery, floury white skinned potato. it gave them health most people on this blog can only dream of. only a complete idiot would say it "hardly contains any minerals that can be absorbed by our bodies"
@Simon and K3A
First of all: good comments. In my very first post I started with saying I do not know everything. But since I do not like questions to stay unanswered I will tell you what I know.
Besides the skin color there are some real differences that cause red skinned potatoes to have a smoother skin, less eyes and obviously the minerals to color them red. I do not expect you to be impressed, since I am not either.
Medicine looks at certain values and compare them to the reference values, they look at the absolute numbers. In absolute sense, potatoes do contain plenty of potassium (which almost all of us have already plenty of in our diets) and manganese. But as you probably know, white skinned potatoes do also contain more sodium then is good for us.
RBTI does not only look at the absolute amount, but more at the relative amount: the ratios. Most here know that we absorb iodine about ten times better from bread than from refined salts, because bread contains other ingredients that will help in absorption. Vitamin C from fresh fruits are better absorbed because of the enzymes, amount of bioflavonoids and some other things.
Some foods are perfect as is, but just not that great for human consumption.
Now to make sure I use some verifiable facts:
Baked white skinned potatoes have 92% carbs, over 1% fat and 7% protein.
Baked red skinned potatoes have 88% carbs over 2% fat and 10% protein.
Not much difference in the absolute sense, but if we would only look at the carbs over protein, that would be 92/7 to 88/10 we have a difference in ratio of 13.1 over 8.8. (where cauliflower is 3.2).
Nutrient completeness according to the site below is 50 for white compared to 51, (where cauliflower is 74) but keep in mind the missing sodium (bad) and extra selenium (good) in red-skinned potatoes.
All the above can be found at nutritiondata.self.com.
So because the ratios are different it does not seem to contain all the essential minerals that the body needs to absorb all other minerals. That is why Simon correctly quoted the whole sentence, and did not leaf out the part ‘that can be absorbed in our bodies?.
As for why I did not list the specific names: I am Dutch. Saying ?bindjes? are white skinned potatoes and ?bildstar? is a red skinned one will most likely not help you. Please keep in mind that I have the site to provide info for newcomers, not to provide a site that would stop people like terpol from calling me a complete idiot.
As for my personal experience: Potatoes were the first thing I needed to skip in a ?pseudo-science? diet for my Crohn’s. The medical society in Europe have what is translated from Dutch the ?elementary diet?, that also skipped potatoes because it aggravates the infections, which research showed to mess up the blood tests. Still most MD’s don’t even know that, since the research was done over 20 years ago and people rather take a pill as a diet. For me the one-for-all diet worked quite some years, but not forever.
I agree entirely with what Taylor/TMS said. Scientific terminology has been thrown around very loosely and inconsistent fashion.
I also agree with Lee however. The premise that you can observe numbers and learn how to tweak diet to bring them into ideal range to allow faster healing makes intrinsic sense.
You don't need to understand physiology to perform the practice or show that it works. I'm willing to accept a practice may be able to show us something even if the practitioners (Reams/Challen/etc.) are mixed up or not well versed on their physiology.
I think Matt set us all up for these arguments anyway when he said up front not to read too much of the info on RBTI or it'll sound like quackery.
That being said, I agree with Taylor/Hobson that we should still be able to prove efficacy, as has been done with acupuncture.
As for the naysayers asking why it's not more widespread, I would say if it does work, this may just be the very edge. Like acupuncture, it would need time to grow in acceptance, although acupuncture still doesn't have much mainstream acceptance.
I also agree with others that any relationships should be straightforward and codable into equations that anybody could pick up and learn. The whole "there is only one guru" element is a bit off, although I am willing to admit there could be a fair amount of variation amongst practitioners as intuition may have to play a large role… at least until a large set of rules is coded out.
Red potatoes are red because of the caretenoids and flavonoids, not because of minerals.
White potatoes contain very little sodium, 6mg per 100g (0.006%).
Red potatoes, according to nutritiondata.com (flesh + skin, raw), contain the same amount of sodium per 100g as white potatoes (flesh + skin, raw).
Red potatoes contain 0.2 micrograms more selenium per 100g, which is a pretty insignificant amount.
A 1% difference in nutrient density is also pretty insignificant.
Most do not eat the potatoes raw, that is why I looked at baked. But that is basically irrelevant. Somewhere I messed up. Thank you for noticing that and making sure my information is corrected!
I did check the 'teachings' and did not find any good answers, except that it will mess up the numbers. I will not give another answer that may not be correct, since I can't come up with one.
Challen has a nice article about the no-no's, that may convince some, but it surely would not have convinced me before I started RBTI.
Not one person read my two posts and thought anything more than PASS.Why is that thoughI have more people that I have asked today or thought about that lived long lives and they all eat the same thing day in and day out.My grandma was prime example of over 100yrs old.She ate the same thing every single day.Breakfast was bread in Cuban coffee which is super high caffeinated and tons of sugar with probably half a loaf Italian bread dunked in.Coffee thruout the day with more sugar and a few cookies.Dinner was ALWAYS homemade chicken soup.So what do you think is happening here?I think the body likes same foods everyday so it can balance itself out to them.
I also now wonder if one can get great results by eating same diet everyday that does not cause any PH issues.I wonder if this can be tested without the refractometer,instead just using the saliva and urine PH.If the urine PH is acidic then its a strong indicator to start taking in alkaline foods and vice versa if its alkaline then acidic causing foods.
How Challen can tell what one eats though is a mystery.I hope he did not know that Matt was coming to see him before hand and just read one of his posts where he said he eats alot of bananas?? :(
Also,forgot to mention about me and how I never had a cavity my whole life.I have eaten junk for many yrs and had bad gingivitis in my life but never any bone or teeth issues.I also have skin that when I got 14 stitches the nurse couldn't get the needle though my skin.She called the doctor in who then had a nurse get the skinniest needle they had and was amazed when he had a hard time puncturing my skin.The needle would make a pop sound when it would penetrate.I asked if that is abnormal and he said he never experienced anything like that but heard of it in medical school.
So why do I think I have these weird issues.I believe that its my massive water consumption(NYC hard water)at gallons per day causing my body to have excess alkalinity.
@willam said: "Safety is in the variety.
There really are people who eat a very small range of ?healthy? foods for more than 10 years and have no idea where their problems come from. For those I do not care what they eat, as long as it is a variety (considering their numbers are not too far off). Even on junk foods, which is a variety for them and contains different vitamins and minerals as they normally get in, they will feel better, but most important it will get them off the fixed focus of their previous narrow diet. For everyone else, real foods are the best thing."
this is the kind of stuff i am looking for. thanks willam for this explanation. this is the kind of info neither matt nor anyone else is providing. people are getting all excited over challen telling them to eat oreos, pies, cheetos and all kinds of other total junk, and then rbti once again becomes this joke b/c how could someone actually live on that stuff. but this explanation actually makes sense, if i am interpreting it correctly. that the people with some bad health problems need this kind of variety not necessarily for what is in the food, but for what the food does for the psyche.
@wolfstriked: you may have something with the whole eating the same foods everyday idea. i am one who tends to eat the same things daily i would say mostly out of convenience b/c with 2 kids i'd rather spend my time eating in relative peace than trying to make something new every single day. our dinners vary just b/c i think i still have this warped mindset that we must eat a variety of foods or we will surely croak. haha. when my mother visits she refuses to eat something two days in a row and it drives me crazy. it's too much for me to think about. i like things to be simple. but matt did say challen said he himself never eats the same vegetable two days in a row. so again, it would be nice to get an overall explanation on challen's ideas about diet in general so those of us who choose to just eat well and not get into rbti can have a guideline, if one even exists. as far as personal experience with this, growing up we ate variety–real and junk–i only have one cavity and was quite healthy compared to my peers. although, when i decided to make my own lunches i tended to eat the same things daily and i remember refusing to eat the school lunches/snacks. i will say that b/c people in the US are *obsessed* with food to the extreme, it's not really surprising that so many are ill.
Team Smith, because of my numbers (which indicated low blood sugar) Challen told me to eat a piece of fruit 2x in the morning. If it was cantaloupe,for example, I could eat it 4 days in a row until it is gone, I didn't have to change the type of fruit each day. He told me the types of fruit to choose from and also said I should have a pear 3x a week.
@Wolfstriked
RBTI talks about a 'healing range'. If the numbers are in a certain range, the body will start compensating the chemistry at a reasonable speed. If the numbers are out of that, the body has a harder time to compensate. However, if you need let's say iron, and you have none in your diet, it will be harder to stay healthy. The body does recycle most of the minerals, but can't do that forever.
Also note that most in RBTI believe it will prevent heart failure and some other things, use it for improving the quality of live, not the quantity. Most believe you will reach just about the same age, but with less complications. Your grandma may have had good genes, and may have been in good health until she died, I will not question that. But like so many here have a hard time believing RBTI works, the same goes for disproving it to the ones who follow it. I believe eating a wide variety of foods to get in different minerals makes sense. The closer your numbers get to perfect and your mineral content is as it should be, the less your pH will shift if you ate something 'wrong'.
As far as the pH's go: there are many who follow the pH Miracle diet. Some claim your pH should be as high as possible, others claim it should be a 7 or 7.4. IF you do not consider the rest of the numbers, I believe you would be better off with a pH of 7 than a 6.4.
How Challen can tell what no-no's or extremes a person eats? Ratios. Matt's UREA's (last two numbers) were total 20, which is not bad at all. But the top number should be higher as the bottom (1.5 to 2 times the value). Banana's upset the UREA's a little. But if you eat a lot, it begins to have a serious impact.
Every food has an effect in the numbers, but some have a bigger effect. The no-no's have the biggest effect.
About the bone and skin thing: For me that does not proof you are healthy, but it also does not proof you are not. Calciums should be in balance, and since you seem to have enough or too much from one kind, and in relation to that not enough of another, to me it seems like your body tries to get rid of one or more types of calciums any way it can, even trough the skin.
@team smith
For the psyche for most part, but anything different from the exact same nutrients they have an excess off (because they eat the same foods every day) will improve their health. But giving them a list with foods that are better as the 'junk food' will usually get them stuck on just that list, improving their health in the short run, but guaranteeing history will repeat itself. But I believe you already got that part.
With that said, I should also include that variety in real foods, especially fruits and vegetables is less important as with processed foods.
First of all, Moi & Anonymous' here felt offended by Jannis and Taylor's comments. But it's not Jannis' or Taylor's fault. Moi's & Anonymous' interpretations of Taylor's intentions were not correct. They thought Taylor was personally attacking Reams and RBTI followers, was was correct. Taylor technically was attacking the credibility of Reams and the RBTI followers, but he thought it was justified because it was "necessary for that information to get out."
Now, a lot of people thought that Taylor and Jannis were discrediting the RBTI without further intent of "learning RBTI more." Moi & Anonymous thought that Taylor and Jannis were not interested in learning RBTI, but were "close-minded" and "only interested in debunking RBTI".
Jannis was offended, and then accused of Moi of being "dogmatic." Moi became offended of this, and he became defensive by telling that no one has the correct answers.
In response, a lot of people became offended by their accusations.
William got offended. William insulted Anonymous by calling Anonymous as "Anonymous who did not like the childish analogies."
Brock got offended. Brock said: "why do all the most assinine comments come from Anons?"
Taylor was cool at that time, but he eventually became offended in the end. Taylor insulted Anonymous by telling him that he is not "grown up" and to "get a name" rather posting as Anonymous.
I think Wolfstrike is just a latent superhero, like Bruce Willis in "Unbreakable".
William got offended. William insulted Anonymous by calling Anonymous as "Anonymous who did not like the childish analogies."
If you read the post regarding this, you will see that the first post (which anonymous responded to) I gave a simple example to make things very clear. In that post I already apologized for using a childish example. One anonymous responded by saying my 'childish analogies' were not needed.
The next entry by me I answered two anonymous users. So I indicated this was the one who did not like the 'childish analogies', his / her exact words. If quoting someone is the same as insulting, you just insulted a lot of people ;-)
Optimal health probably happens only if all the building blocks are present.That said I really believe the same foods day in and out are a key to the puzzle.I have a co-worker we nicknamed the Ham Burglar.When your looking for him people know to check Mcdonalds and sadly(or luckily)he is always there.50yrs old and has a huge gut but super smooth skin and looks very healthy while eating just Mcdonalds every day.He tells me he has perfect health with no BP or BS issues at all.Docs give him a bill of perfect health.
Another person though has a negative story of eating the same foods day in and out.This gentleman ate mainly a diet of mixed nuts.Everytime I saw him he had his huge bag with him.Then one day I findout he had a heart attack….but was back in work 2 days later saying the docs praise the high nut consumption as reason he survived with little damage.Blocked arteries he had but healthy blocked arteries is what they told him….if thats possible.They said just ease off the nuts and eat some other foods.
I will just wait and see what Matt makes out of it all.
Brock,my brothers don't call me the Terminator for nothing.I have done some pretty amazing feats…all as a kid.I blew up hot water bottles with my lungs till they exploded.While my upper body is pretty normal strength wise my legs are ridiculously strong.I once put all the weight on a leg extension machine and then had 3 friends sit on it while I did reps.This was with bone skinny legs of a teen mind you.
So yeah I am unbreakable!!!!
Organism ~
Thanks for your interesting deconstruction of the communication taking place in this thread.
Please be aware of your own ability to misinterpret meaning when attempting to meta-narrate.
For clarification: My comments and conversation have had nothing to do with Jannis' comments. He speaks from his own point of view, as I do from mine. Your grouping of our approaches seems to be a misinterpretation and/or assumption.
Additionally, for further clarification: I have not been "offended" by any post made thus far, anonymous or otherwise. My use of the word "aggravating" was in order to reflect the inflammatory and antagonistic effect some of the anonymous comments seemed to be having on the forum at large.
I used the term "grown-ups, as it were" as a turn of phrase, indicating that the sheer volume of anonymous comments (some of them clearly mocking or antagonistic in tone and content, others informative or relevant to the topic) had gotten distracting. Their high numbers appear to have rendered further anonymous comments difficult to address, since nobody can keep track of who's saying what, or what their intentions might be.
My suggestion to those interested in continuing conversation to sign-in or use a name was meant to further facilitate clear discussion, unhindered by the confusion of who might be posting.
I hope this clears things up. :-)
Taylor/Hobson
I apologize to anyone who was offended by my false allegations to William. I'll read the whole thing over.
Look here.
William is right. And that was my point with the oreos. A little desert is fine. We had home made and some digiorno pizza. We don't do that every day.
The point is to show people it's ok to let go of the fear of food.
I've obtained a list of the "No-No" foods, as per suggested by Challen Waychoff and Carey Reams.
In the interest of open discussion, I will share it below.
(Note: If this list is incorrect in any way, I invite current practitioners of Challen's method to correct or clarify.)
The following are the foods that are classified as "No-No," and must be avoided:
The No-No Foods
– All pork and pork products, including gelatin and other parts of the animal.
– Other meats such as rabbit and frog.
– "Skinned" fish, such as tuna, mahi-mahi, mackerel, and eel.
– All shellfish
– Chocolate
– Tea
– Nuts ("okay" if boiled or pressured-cooked until soft) Note: Coconut is apparently allowed, but not coconut oil, because it’s considered too hard for the body to digest.
– Popcorn
– Nutmeg
– White potatoes (sweet potatoes and yams are allowed)
– White rice (brown rice is allowed)
– Sea salt (According to Choose Life Or Death by Carey Reams, p. 115, ?Sea salt is the worst of all salts for people to use. In many people it causes a dry, hot tongue and it dries up the saliva glands and the mouth is always dry because sea salt contains seven kinds of salt and only the healthiest log rollers (or a man doing heavy muscular work) can use it, and they should use it sparingly.)
– Hard-seeded fruits, such as strawberries, blackberries, raspberries, etc. (Allowed if the seeds are removed.)
(continued from above)
The following foods are attached to the "No-No" list, but are suggested to be eaten in moderation, rather than completeley avoided.
The guidelines suggest that these foods will cause a "loss of energy" if abused:
– White sugar (Sweeteners such as honey, molasses, maple syrup and corn syrup are allowed)
– White flour (by itself)
– 100% whole grain flour (by itself)
Note: flour is allowed if the mixture is half refined flour and half 100% whole grain flour
– Salt
– Butter (Margarine made from corn oil is allowed)
– Whole milk, 2% milk, 1% milk (Nonfat/skim milk is allowed)
– Black pepper
– White pepper
What's all this talk about monotone diets causing food allergies? That's complete nonsense. Most people most of the time have been eating rather monotone diets for all their lives without ever developing allergies against the foods they were eating. On the other hand, eating a monotone diet doesn't guarantee health nor did all healthy people eat a monotonous diet (esp. the eskimos mentioned, I'm sure they didn't catch exactly the same fish all the time! They also ate berries in season etc… not a good example.)
"The point is to show people it's ok to let go of the fear of food."
like pork, shellfish, nuts etc.
ja- ja -ja
sugar, salt, chocolate, black pepper, whole milk, butter > never going to give you up!… don't use the other crap so don't really care, ( i might start using them now) btw, did i mention that i look and feel better than all you guys convined together? mkay sea
hi,
Im from Portugal and think I have hypoglycemia. I only have a brix refractometer and my sugar is about a 5. Is it safe for me to do the lemon fast?
Does anyone have Challen’s number or address to where I can get a consultation?
thanks
Hello! Is this still the current site, or have the conversations migrated to another URL?
If anyone is interested in an open discussion group revolving around RBTI and the alternatives to medicines please feel free to join our free group on Facebook called “What doctor’s won’t tell you is…”
Regarding the comment:
Original RBTIer on July 26, 2011 at 2:08 am
June Wiles’ twin sister never followed any of June’s recommendations. June loved her sister very much, and was heart broken when her sister died. They communicated by phone on a daily basis, but her sister totally rejected RBTI.