Tomorrow I leaveth the WHIZard and the wonderful paradise city of Wheeling. At least for a few months. I have spent a total of four weeks here and about six weeks on Waychoff’s basic program at this point – with decent but not perfect adherence due to some chaotic road trips.
My body chemistry has moved much closer to Reams’s theoretical ideal. And I can honestly say I’ve noticed improvement in all the areas I was having troubles with upon arrival – from improvements in foot pain, chest pain, and back pain to a huge decrease in pet allergies and asthma. My teeth feel noticeably stronger – kind of like what I felt on my extended milk fast over a year ago (which made the other problems listed exponentially worse in exchange for those healthier teeth). My breathing has improved and I no longer wake up with crusties in my nose that used to make me sneeze all morning long. My skin is clear. And I’ve lost an inch or two off the waist eating to appetite with no physical activity. I can’t argue with those results. And it wasn’t exactly torture choking down that coconut cream pie at lunch today. Or those waffles smeared with cream cheese and jam at breakfast.
That doesn’t mean Waychoff is God. He isn’t. Or that RBTI is foolproof. I don’t think it is. Even some that have followed his advice for a decade still have major health struggles (granted, those folks would probably be dead if it weren’t for Waychoff’s guidance).
As wacky as it is, very little doubt remains that RBTI, as Challen Waychoff practices it, at the very least deserves a prominent place in the world of alternative health. I’d put it up against any of the popular alternative health modalities, such as Acupuncture, homeopathy, chiropractic, etc. any day of the week. I’ve tried all those, and none of them lived up to my experiences with RBTI thus far. It is a shame that you can find a practitioner in those fields in every town in America, and only Wheeling, West Virginia – yes WHEELING, WEST VIRGINIA, has a licensed professional doing RBTI as Waychoff practices it. I hope my expos? of the WHIZard is the initial spark to change that.
I can’t possibly be the only one that responds well to it. In fact I know I’m not. I’ve talked to several dozen of Waychoff’s clients that report success varying from pretty good to miraculous. My own sister was able to wave goodbye to heart arrhythmia and hypertension after a couple of weeks of loose adherence. My father sent me a text message featuring the word “bonerville.” Like pops, I can’t help but have a little excitement here.
Anyway, I still have much more video and my own personal thoughts to share about my RBTI “experiment” and research. Only time will tell what the uses and limitations of it really are. But anywho, here’s yet another clip of Challen that features a very basic concept central to RBTI…
First again! LOL
God, Challen is such a BAMF.
well Matt, it sounds like you finally found the right path. Just keep doing RBTI and watch your numbers get closer to the perfect equation and you'll keep getting healthier and healthier. You should change the name of your blog and just become a Challen disciple so that way he isn't the only TRUE RBTI practitioner out there.
Many roads lead to health. I'm willing to accept this is one of them.
Some bodybuilding website I came across said: just find a program and stick with it. There are lots of good ways to improve body composition. You don't have to find the right or perfect one. Just make a choice and see how it goes for you.
Probably the same deal with RBTI or homeopathy or energy medicine, or whatever. I can see there being many, many leverage points for affecting our health, and many different disciplines that emerge exploring them. RBTI isn't the last word, and good on you Matt for being open to this and for continuing the search.
My saliva DHEA was so low, it was at the level of a 70 yo woman (no wonder I'm exhausted). I took pregnenolone rather than DHEA since it's a precursor and supposed to be safer. Ray Peat says everybody can take it, no problemo… except me. After only 3 days, I was literally unable to sleep at all. We're talking about 1 hour total a day. Other bad effects too, but that was the most noticeable. And this was on the lowest dose. After a week or so, I decided it was not good for me, and within a day I was back to normal (for me).
So I'm interested in what Challen has to say about DHEA and other hormones messing your numbers up.
Can't wait to hear more overall.
Rosenfeltc, you know Matt will be on to the next big thing in a few weeks and everybody will accuse him of being a sellout for (pick your dietary dogma). Happens every time he changes tack. Sometimes he reminds me of a kid with a new Xmas toy; he can only talk about how wonderful it is for weeks, and then he forgets and is onto his bday present. Except Matt sometimes then reintegrates all his new knowledge into his overall system. I'm like that too, so, I think it's cool.
Weird findings with urine PH.All of a sudden I have been feeling lousy again and noticed my PH dropping back down to 5 range.Here I am taking a teaspoon of baking soda,4calcium citrates and 6 coral calciums per day.Energy way down and my skin looks off.
So what is it I was wondering today and I realized I haven't shit in two days.I have given up on distilled water and veggies and my diet has fallen to pizza or optimal meals w/corn tortillas or some potato.Could it be that constipation screws with the acidity of the body?Makes sense since its waste rotting away in my gut for two days.When I was eating the bag of oriental veggies or the boxes of veggies I was pooping every day sometimes twice.My father once said to me the secret to good health is a good dump and pushed fiber on us like it was gods gift.Maybe he was right LOL.RBTI does push veggies;)
And is distilled water as important as the RBTI statesI wonder and for now I am back on distilled.I stopped because it got sold out due to hurricane.
Regarding saliva ph, now I want to go back and re-read Price, Pottenger, Cleave and McCarrison with an RBTI point of view. The mineralization, body chemistry and soil fertility all seem to be the connective issues that unite these men. Really excited to see a measurable, applicable system to achieving the health so carefully documented by my dentist heroes.
Matt, two questions for you-
1. What, if anything, has Challan said about exercise? Does exercise change your numbers?
2. Do you have any recommendations for learning the Reams teachings on brix gardening? Any books in particular you've heard good things about?
Matt,
Hell. Did you have to list it with Chiro (aka magical scamluxation) and Homeopathy (aka magical remembering poo water?)
Chiro http://www.quackwatch.org/01QuackeryRelatedTopics/chiro.html
Homeopathy http://www.teachertube.com/viewVideo.ph?video_id=64677
RBTI looks like it might got something real solid to it but listing it next to that crud makes it look rrrreally bad.
Please don't tell me you buy into that stuff even after you saw for yourself they were dead ends. Set yourself free, those emperors have no clothes man. They're not even nudist emperors man they're tooth fairies. Keep RBTI untainted!
I just caught wind that you're coming to Minneapolis this weekend to do some RBTI. Sweetness. I hope I can make it.
I've been following your blog for years and you could not have chosen a more appropriate title than 180* health. It's always interesting to me as a holistic health professional to see a dude out there swimming in the experiences of life just for the sake of swimming. But, by the same token, you appear just as lost as when you first started. I love it!
John
And now I remember why I refrain from posting in the comments section: some genius just posted a link to Steve Barrett's Crapwatch. Talk about pollution. :sigh:
Is it just me or does Challen have a little bit of a Beau Bridges thing going on?
Good to read from you again–safe journeys out of there. Just reading a novel set in West Virginia: sounds like a difficult place.
I'm very interested in those same exact questions Brock was asking. Brock, if you do go back over that other material, please do share!
Been trying the eat just three times/day thing, with the proportions, etc–so far not going so well, but that may be mostly because it translates to going back to old familiar undereating, and I still can't seem to make a big lunch work–either I'm hungry again midafternoon, or I feel bloated and sick.
What am I doing wrong?
Crapwatch is not a good source of unbiased info. Barrett has too many personal slants and you always have to read his sources for yourself to get the real story.
Chiropractic is still debated. All over the place not just Barrett's site. Especially pure chiropractic: subluxations don't exist. Chiropracters who say they can see them use so many high radiation xrays to find them you might as well start saving for your cancer treatment in advance any how.
DD Palmer was a 1890 culty con man with a chiropractic beginning story that's unfortunately very similar to Dr. Ream's on the surface. Claimed it was delivered thru messages from the spirit world and such. It can be hard to seperate the good from the bad, holy from occult. I agree we should keep chiropracter comparison far away from the Ionization Theory in interest of good reputation and the good of God's message of health.
Maybe you should become a cosultant. I'm not kidding. Part of you kinda wants to doesn't it…
I think RBTI needs you.
lorelei,
sorry but not this time, this time it's different because RBTI is in a whole different world in terms of biochemistry and beliefs. If Matt, chooses to not follow RBTI anymore after all the good things that he has experienced then he loses credibility in my view. After all these successes the best thing Matt could do is be an RBTI practitioner under Challen, otherwise he has to give a thorough explanation on why he would jump on to the next big thing if supposedly the RBTI and the perfect equation is all the human body needs.
@rosenfeltc, I don't think he would lose credibility, at least not in my view, if he chose to continue to explore and investigate as he has been doing all along. But i would be sad to see him abandon RBTI too. I agree, that he's be a great RBTI consultant and would love to see that happen.
Sorry,
Out of all the no foods, I'm really struggling with the butter thing.
So, if I eat pancakes with 1 TBS of butter, and my numbers go in the wrong direction. Then, I eat pancakes with 1 TBS corn oil, and the numbers go in the right direction, is this necessarily the healthiest choice for the body long term? Is corn oil like any other drug, herb, hormone,etc. that can manipulate the chemistry, but backfire in 10 years?
Oooo. You know who Challen reminds me of?
Glenn Beck with his chalkboard. XD
No matter where he starts, or how badly he misunderstands something…. it all ends up back at a RULE and the RBTI working. Scribble more numbers, no math required!
Taking bets now. What are the chances that the cut-off part of the video includes him contrasting RBTI against that 40%-60% success rate of other modalities?
Whaddaya think crew – his pet theory gets a 90%? 95%? 100%?
The numbers don't lie!!
Hey, Hawaiigirl!
I have a pregnenolone story for you. I went to a bioidentical hormone M.D. (to make a very, very long story as short as possible I will cut to my end result), and got worse. A crapload worse.
I then started to work with a friend of mine who is a naturopath. She suggested pregnenolone. I told her I was a bit freaked out because my experience with it had been so horrible. I had EVERY side effect on the bottle. True story.
She respected my fear, but asked that I give it a try because she was willing to "listen to my body" instead of maintaining a dose that was obviously wrong for me.
We ended up with a dose of 2.5 mg every other day, and the results were fantastic! It wiped out a bunch of my symptoms, including mild depression!
Yeah, I was on 2.5 mg every other day with her. Guess what the M.D. had me on. (I should also mention that when I told him I was experiencing all the side effects listed on the bottle he mocked me and said that he had me on the lowest dose he ever prescribed and was planning on working me up to my proper dosage.) He had me on 90mg every fracking day. Doctors suck but they rarely make Quackwatch. The world is not fair.
The books Biologic Ionization As Applied To Human Nutrition (Dr. Beddoe)and Choose Life Or Death (Dr. Reams) helped me to understand something about RBTI.
Brock –
You would enjoy the writings of Louis Bromfield, also an Ohio renaissance man, and familiar with the work of Price. Bromfield turned a worn-out hillside farm in northeast Ohio into a verdant, productive place with proper minerals, tilling practices, etc. and opened it up to visitors from around the world. One of my favorite places to visit as a child.
As to herbs – I have experienced re-mineralizing effects from herbal infusions, nettle for the most part. Prepared the way Susun Weed recommends and rotated with other single herb infusions, this is a "short-cut" way to get in serious amounts of minerals/vitamins with no chewing. ;-)
~Anna
@NolanG it is unfortunate that you stick to beliefs rather than empirical evidence.
Not discussing Chiro that I know little about, but homeopathy. Numerous studies have been published in PEER reviewed medicine newspapers (therefore not pro-homeopathy) attesting that it works on the illness and symptoms it is supposed to treat.
Moreover you might have missed this significant bit of news that made quite a stir in the scientific community: Luc Montagnier, Nobel Prize of medicine for discovering the HIV virus, has proven with his team about homeopathy that " electromagnetic signals of the original medicine remains in the water and has dramatic biological effects".
So up to know we had some scientists who saw that it worked but couldn't explain why or how; now we have a nobel prize of medicine who has discovered how it works. Hard to deny the evidence of both empirical results and identified principles at work don't you think?
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/dana-ullman/luc-montagnier-homeopathy-taken-seriously_b_814619.html
I personally trust more a Nobel prize than the author of Quackwatch, that seems common sense…
Anna,
I also do infusions a la Susan Weed, but I am holding off until I test my numbers. I don't want anything throwing it off. Do you drink them everyday? I am good for a time, and then I start to slack off.
Brock and Veiled Glory-
I agree, Louis Bromfield is fantastic! I've also gotten into Gary Zimmer's latest book as well – it's very good for understanding farming methods that work.
I'm a newbie farmer trying to bring back very bad soil. I've ordered some fertilizers from Int'l Ag Labs, but haven't done their soil test and consultations. I've stuck with Gary Zimmer's methods, but it's going to be a long haul. RBTI, both for human health and soil, has the allure of very quick results. The issue of long-term impacts keeps coming up for me tho.
The "B" in RBTI stands for biological, but I hear very little in-depth mention of actual biology in the soil and in our guts. There's a whole other universe of critters in these places and they have many similarities – I think this is important. Int'l Ag Labs promotes synthetic fertilizers like urea and ammonium sulfate. These are necessary on worn out soils, but just a short term fix. I agree with the organic crowd that they do harm soil biology. Same goes for very refined foods Challen promotes for healing?
If you really want to have your farming socks knoced clean off, go to a farm meeting with John Kempf (Amish) of Advancing Eco Ag and Jerry Brunetti of Agri Dynamics. These two are walking encyclopedias for soil and animal health. They both take the best parts of all theories and put them into practice. Kempf gets enormous yields of high-brix produce, without solely following Reams. Brunetti healed himself from cancer, not by following RBTI. I have much more respect for folks like these who synthesize the best of what's out there, make sure what they say makes sense, and show astounding results.
Deedle –
I do every other day and follow what the monthly cycle seems to require. For example, nettle absolutely nukes menstrual cramps and cleans out the uterus of clots – so I drink a quart going into it and another quart or two throughout. [I hardly have any remaining clots; periods are easy-peasy now!] Red clover before ovulation b/c that is when estrogen is highest anyway. Red raspberry interspersed. Other herbs as necessary for differing complaints.
Brock –
The titles you would enjoy by Bromfield are:
From My Experience -written after 15 years on the farm.
Malabar Farm – Also much good gleaned about his techniques.
Pleasant Valley – just because he is an excellent prose artist, describing the rural life of the valley.
Thanks for the references, Kelly! You are doing noble work. You have a great blog, too. :-)
Thanks Veiled Glory! Malabar Farm and Pleasant Valley are 2 of my favorite books. Have you visited Malabar Farm? I heard the hayfield with the giant oak filmed at the end of Shawshank Redemption is across the street from Malabar.
@ Mitzi and Lorelei,
Is pregnalone the same thing as natural progesterone? I've been researching natural progesterone for a couple of months and have come up with zero in terms of actual efficacy. All I can find are either glowing claims of its ability to heal every issue imaginable, or horror stories that become confusing because of the differences between natural progesterone and synthetic progestins, etc. And then the dosing issues: some people say 20 to 40 mg….others say 100 to 200 mg (of the natural progesterone cream).
I eventually abandoned the whole idea since it seems to be insane and risky! I just can't handle that level of contradictory information.
@ Veiled Glory and Deedle, I'm just starting to experiment with herbs a little, via a naturopath. I'm healing from a number of issues at the moment, so it's hard to tell if they're 'working' yet, but I'm hoping they will prove to be a better alternative to taking bioidentical hormones, which I would like to avoid.
I've often wondered how RBTI intersects with hormones. This post is another piece of the puzzle. I've always found it interesting that Challen says that women need more minerals than men, which would make sense, considering menstruation and thus blood loss. Yet, most RDAs for vitamins and minerals suggest smaller amounts for women than for men. And when you consider that women have historically eaten less food (in times of food shortages, etc) it makes a lot of sense that the ensuing generations would become sicker and weaker, which is what we are seeing now. Of course this doesn't account for environmental toxins and stress factors, which I believe are also factors.
Thank you, Veiled Glory and Kelly Scott,
I garden as a hobby and this sounds like a lot of really interesting research for the winter when the snow covers my garden. I have been following the Little Homestead in the City with much interest. Probably small scale and so yesterday compared to what you all are doing.
Also, thanks for the herbal tips. I must admit, I am a pretty slothful Susan Weed reader so I haven't gotten that in depth into certain herbs at certain points in the cycle. I will totally check that out.
@SJ,
What herbs are you working with currently?
Deedle: 25 ml Rhodiola, 40 ml Vitex, 5 ml Valeriana, 10 ml licorice, 20 ml withania, in a 100 ml bottle of alcohol solution.
1 tsp twice per day, away from food/supplements.
It used to have milk thistle instead of licorice, but my naturopath ran out of milk thistle. This is the third week I've been taking it, but the first two weeks were 1 tsp 3 times per day. She says she's going to put me on some stronger herbs in two weeks, to help my adrenals.
Kelley –
Yes, we would make regular treks to Malabar when I was a child/teenager. This was before the state took it over and turned it into a tourist trap. The Ohio State University was running it as a casual experimental farm and the house/other parts were run by a third-party non-profit.
Anyhow – it was terrific! We could go just about anywhere. The springhouse, the fields, the house was totally "touchable". Mt. Jeez is worthy of the name. :-) Even the watercress patch at the spring pond was still growing strong – though a sign warned about "bacterial infections". Meh, we ate it and drank from the spring.
The tree in Shawshank – yep, right around the corner. Unfortunately it got rotted and blown over in storm recently.
@Kelly Scott
I had the pleasure to had a dinner with Jerry Brunetti this year prior to his talk to the WAPF conference in London, and the man is fantastic and knows his stuff for sure. His talk on cancer was absolutely fascinating – missed his one on soil, I should have attended dammit. I totally endorse Brunetti views.
@Brock
from the high brix gardening post's comments:
"what I really wanted was just a book that explains the "ideal equation" for soil and why it works. As usual, Reams himself was not very intelligible. However, I finally I ran across an ebook titled "The Ideal Soil: A Handbook for the New Agriculture" by Michael Astere, which is da bomb!
http://www.soilminerals.com/index.htm
I hate to sound like I'm promoting this guy's book – I have no affiliation what-so-ever – but this book was a real breath of fresh air for me and a wealth of information, both theory and practice. People can read the Intro and first chapter for free at the above website. I can tell you that later chapters dig into A LOT of detail about analyzing and amending soil a la Reams, but there's also a lot that goes beyond Reams based on modern knowledge of soil micro-organisms."
Laurent, Brunetti is fantastic for sure. Nice feng shui website!
Danimal, i second your recommendation for the Ideal Soil Handbook. That book got me started down this road and i still reference it a lot. I made a lot of mistakes following his advice though. I wasn't nearly conservative enough with potassium, for example and screwed up my veggie garden. Figuring this stuff out requires a lifetime of learning. I did like how he combined Albrecht and Reams.
SJ – pregnenalone is totally different from progesterone. I take the progesterone from John Lee's website. It worked ok, but then, a la Ray Peat (the only recommendation of his I tried that worked well), I upped the dosage dramatically. Fantastic at painful breasts, cramps, other issues. According to Peat, if you take too low a dose, it simply increases the estrogen dominance, you need a large dose to flush excess estrogen out.
2.5mg every other day is a tiny dose of pregnenalone! I was doing 15mg a day, so maybe the way smaller dose would be helpful. My impression from Peat was you couldn't go too high with pregnenalone, excess was just washed out, but obviously you and I say otherwise.
I am a BIG believer in herbal remedies. In over 6 years there's only one acute illness in our family I couldn't fix with herbs, and I think that's because I was doing it wrong. I also rely on herbs for headaches, allergies, etc. Unlike Veiled Glory, I don't have the patience for making infusions and teas… I imagine I'd be able to do so much more.
Did somebody have a website for Brunetti?
Two questions I have based on the "no no" foods I'm hoping someone can answer:
1) Are tomatoes considered okay? They have seeds,. so I'm not sure
2) Is white chocolate okay?
Also, I saw eating out tips Kelly shared in the last post. Here's another one: eat at middle eastern restaurants when possible. They don't use pork or shellfish. I happen to love middle eastern food, and live in NYC where there are all different restaurants, so this is an easy one I thought of today.
Middle Eastern cooking relies on nuts and seeds though, so… but then, they're supposed to be ok if boiled, so I suppose a stew would be ok?
I feel like RBTI is causing my options to shrink, not grow. But that's because I refuse to touch industrial foods…
Kidlets are wondering about white chocolate too. I thought it would be impossible to give up chocolate, but switching big meals to lunch and not eating sweets after two has made a huge difference. I'm even pre-period and normally eating my weight in chocolate. Of course, all chocolate consumption would be at night – and now there are no nightly sweets. Our only problem is we don't consider it a real dessert unless it has chocolate. What do we eat for lunch dessert now? :) Especially ice cream… vanilla is bleah. We make our own, and like our chocolate recipe best. Had coffee ice cream yesterday, that was good, but don't want kidlets eating that every day!
Lorelai – here you go for Jerry Brunetti's website – http://www.agri-dynamics.com/ I've heard him speak and he was inspiring.
White chocolate has no cocoa solids in it so it isn't chocolate by definition (personally I dislike it as I find it tasteless and too sweet). "White chocolate is made with a blend of sugar, cocoa butter, milk products, vanilla, and a fatty substance called lecithin." – http://www.bonappetit.com/tipstools/ingredients/2008/04/white_chocolate
On the fb page we have been told that the cocoa butter in white chocolate makes it a "no" food. However, they say that if you find white chocolate without the cocoa butter, it is okay. Never heard of that particualr product. White chocoalte by definition has to have the cocoa butter, but whatevs.
@Amy,
I was specifically told to eat "soft seeded" vegetables, cucumbers, tomatoes, squashes…But it may depend on your numbers whether they are good for you or not.
SJ & Lorelei –
Yes, pregnenolone is a totally differnt beast, like Lorelei said. I will honestly say that because of my adventures with supplementing hormones I would never just wing it on my own. As my friend the naturopath says…hormones are the drivers of the body. They are complicated and even with the understanding we have currently, still a mystery.
My 2.5mg dose every other day was very helpful, but ultimately didn't fix the problem. It sure made me feel a heck of a lot better for a while though :)
I'm with you on the herbal rememdies. What I have used has been powerful and extremely helpful. Unfortunately, I have not applied myself to gaining enough knowledge about their use to really treat all that I know I could with them.
I can't stop thinking about this RBTI stuff. I should have never joined the FB page. Time sucker. I've have been just following the general rules. No meat or sweets after 2pm and No pork, chocolate or nuts. My sleep was horrible for the first 10 days but it is getting much better. I may be losing some of the 10 lbs. of belly fat I gained since finding this blog in the first place. Which is very welcome even though I didn't think I was worried about weight. I am thinking about a refractometer but I may just wait and see. If Matt & Pippa make it to MT, I'll think about getting tested. But I have to say like Lorelai, I'm not interested in eating junk food.
@Kelly,
Love your posts and blog. I am a newbie land owner/gardener and have been looking into Acres USA, Polyface, Zimmer….etc. It is crazy to have it all turn up in this blog which I have been following since November. I am overwhelmed by all the information. Is Zimmer's book a good place to start? Or is there another beginner book? It looks intimidating to me. Thanks.
– another Kelly
Mitzi and Lorelei,
Thanks for your feedback. I had also heard to take big doses of nat. progesterone, a la Peat. I'm glad that I held off and didn't order a bunch of nat. progesterone though (it's not over the counter in Canada). It was really hard to resist…when you feel soooo crappy and these various websites are telling you it will practically cure every single female issue imaginable. But I held off, mostly because I was wary of any long-term complications. I would hate to make things worse.
At least with herbs, there is a lot of history behind them. I'm glad to hear you've had good results with them.
Lorelei,
I forgot to say that I used to have cravings for chocolate all the time and I hated every single dessert that didn't have chocolate in it (I've always been a picky eater). But I did cut it out of my diet 4 years ago and the cravings did pass. If I eat it now, it tastes really gross to me. I find that sometimes I'll crave it the next day, even though I don't like the taste anymore, but if I don't eat any of it, I won't crave it the next day.
I suppose the "Big Lunch" cake from the other post must have carob icing on it then? It sure does look like chocolate though.
Chocolate and progesterone–
–I was craving chocolate like crazy, for a long time, while I knew it was bad for my adrenals. But since I upped starch and went back to eating carbs earlier this year, the craving just disappeared.
I do still love the taste, and if I eat some, like SJ I crave it the next day. A bittersweet craving, because I certainly didn't sleep well the intervening night (and yes, I prefer the darkest chocolate).
Progesterone; I've been taking 'progon' for over a year now as part of balancing out my hormones. At this point, I'm starting to think that some of the other problems I've been having recently (acne where my skin used to be super-clear, mood swings, short term memory loss which is extremely unlike me) may be an allergic reaction to it.
My ND's been dangling the carrot that if I eat more fat (and some animal products) I may be able to be on fewer supps and meds. But somehow, since I upped the carb again, I can't get myself to eat fat. So confused now about which fats are even ok.
Ela: Thankfully, my naturopath doesn't think I need to eat meat or dairy to regain my health. She is super pleased that I'm into coconut, though. I started with coconut milk and then got freaked out about BPA/hexane, etc, so I switched to coconut 'cream'. Basically, dried coconut that's been ground into an almost nut-butter consistency.
But, yeah, she wants me to incorporate more oils and from what I've read on here about PUFAs and omega 6s, and the whole bit, I'm left pretty damn confused too. Add in the RBTI coconut thing, and it's rather crazy. I don't eat nuts anyways…but I don't think eating coconut is going to hurt me. But yes, my thoughts about fats…including flax seeds/chia seeds, hemp hearts, etc, are very mixed.
I've been taking a vegan DHA supplement with a base of high oleic safflower oil, but would rather just have a plain old vegan DHA sup without the extra PUFAs. Hard to find in Canada, but my naturopath is ordering some in, even though she'd rather see me eating the oil based one.
Ela, I forgot to add that I have the same symptoms as you, but that my naturopath and my doctor both think that it's just my hormones kicking in after being rather dormant for a while. They said the symptoms should balance out slowly, with the herbal support and other minerals, and will eventually go away.
It's hard for me to imagine that adding animal products into that mix would help, as they tend to be little hormonal packages themselves. When I eat meat or dairy, I get severe acne (like boils on my back) and other awful symptoms. And this was really 'clean' meat: moose/dall sheep/wild salmon, etc.
Another reason why RBTI is so fascinating, since it seems to me that it doesn't really matter what you eat, as long as the no foods are avoided and the other rules are followed. It would be nice to forget about all the details of macronutrients, etc, etc. I doubt that you or I would feel particularly 'restricted' while following it, but it's hard to say without doing it.
I think Matt is just having a placebo effect. The placebo effect is very powerful and can even destroy cancer as it has famously been shown to do. Once he begins to question this, once the glow wears off, and he begins noticing problems in his health, the obvious problems with this, like a lack of any sensible explanation for it in light of the science, will blare loudly and he will abandon it, and will explain that he explored it and has to be true to his and is such a pioneer.
We have seen this before.
The way to health for most is a moderate diet with little to no drug use and that includes a glass of wine or coffee. People don't want to face their addictions, food and mental wise, so they go round and round.
Today I went back to having more energy again.Ran 5 flights again and just felt better all day.I also pooped a good amount of the load stuck in my gut for two days.All I did is go back to alot of veggies last night and this morning and afternoon.I have a feeling that if you were to eat tons of veggies per meal and some meat you would balance out the RBTI numbers pretty well and that fiber plays a large role in this.I mean what else about veggies could it be?Could be they are very alkalizing irregardless of the calcium content or could be they stabilize the blood sugar VERY well.All I know is that thinking back to each time I had very good health I was always eating alot of veggies.
Today I had bag of broccoli sauteed w/tab butter and 4eggs with Swiss cheese.Just now I had two skinless/boneless chicken thighs slow cooked with a bag of stir fry veggie mix and small amount of butter.Both delicious meals if you let the veggies caramelize a bit to intensify their flavors.Also had two oranges midday for an energy boost and instead they dropped my energy.
And if Matt wants to keep searching and blogging about the next big thing,let him do his thing……please;)
Tommy why is it so hard to believe that a perfect chemistry in the body will bring perfect health?Think of the hardest to keep marine fish that only the best aquarists manage to keep alive.It all boils down to getting the chemistry of the tank to match the ocean as best as possible and then keep it there.Problem with a fish tank is that its small size causes things to happen that do not happen in the ocean due to its tremendous size being a buffer to any change.
SJ–I'm with you on the fat confusion! I was huge into coconut oil and coconut everything for a while but that was when I wasn't eating hardly any carb at all. I seem to migrate from one fear food to the next…
Yes, my ND thinks 'hormones coming back online' is part of the issue, and mine were offline most of a decade, so I can see how it's tricky. He's really only encouraging me to eat salmon (especially living right on the bay in AK) and maybe eggs (which I'm somewhat open to, having had an amazing positive experience with them before). But I'm not willing. Dairy is a huge no no for me–I'm even wondering if my problem with the progesterone supp is because it has some lactose in the formulation.
Thanks for the info on tomatoes and white chocolate.
On real chocolate, it gives me acne (really, it does – I've tested, even though people claim there's no tie, for me it's 100% real), so I stopped eating it years ago. I don't miss it if I avoid it. If I do ever have some, though (few times a year), I want more. But then I get a new crop of terrible zits as punishment. Anyway, when you stop eating it, you stop craving it, mostly.
Also, on veggies: I wouldn't be surprised if the emphasis on veggies is responsible for a lot of the positive effects of RBTI. They have a lot of nutrients. My skin looks best when I eat a lot of veggies (and fruit).
There is no such thing as "perfect health". That's health "nut" talk. There is no such thing as perfect anything. Perfection does not exist.
Where are the studies that show this diet is helpful, especially long term? Why have cultures prominently featured or even stapled his no-nos and experienced high levels of health and centenarians? What is he even really measuring and how does that related to ones overall health?
I think many low carbers and other diet extremists often jump from diet to diet sometimes finding "the diet" that is very different from their last that allows them to eat previously forbidden food or even exalts …. corn oil is the devil… no now it's butter that is bad. It's a mental release and a release of stress and that is beneficial.
That's why a moderate diet is best, so one doesn't stress on the food. Nutty diets gives nutty results. Many peoples problems with food comes from eating too much sugar, too much hormone disturbing and sugar funneling to fat caffeine, and too much carcinogenic even in small amounts alcohol. Deal with those things and don't eat too much and you will experience better health.
Tommy Matt said he does not believe in the placebo effect. Or not with RBTi at least.
The bouncing around is what makes this blog interesting anyhow
Hi Another Kelly,
Thanks for your compliment! I recommend reading Gary Zimmer's new book – it might help you tie everything together. Read as much as you feel like – Joel Salatin, Loius Bromfield, H Newman Turner, Gary Zimmer, etc and see what resonates and makes the most sense for your land.
We don't live too far from Polyface, and we order their products a lot. Their chicken and pork (fed corn) are out of this world, but their steak (grass only)is not good. That was a turning point for us because we REALLY like to eat. We were originally going to follow Polyface principles, but what's the point if their steak just isn't tasty? That's when we started questioning the "manure is magic" farming philosophy and started looking into other methods that embrace inputs like fertilizer.
We found out very early that our land needed way more than compost, but our land was farmed in tobacco for centuries. Your land is probably very different. Have you soil tested to see what's there yet?
Figuring out what you really want out of your land just takes some time. If you want to grow the highest brix veggies of all time and don't mind RBTI weirdness, then team up with Int'l Ag Labs. Acres USA is great – every company I've found in there has excellent customer service, I mean going above and beyond to help.
Let me know if you have any questions – kglanz@gmail.com
He may not believe in it, but the placebo effect is very real. I hear you about the blog being interesting because of the bouncing around. I just feel a little sorry for the people who have health problems who will follow and spend a lot of money pursuing it only to be very likely let down like probably they have many times before with various wacky "diets".
is there a Fb group for rbti? iif so is it restricted to challen clients like the yahoo group? I would love to join…
If Matt and Challen say the placebo affect doesn't happen, it doesnt happen. Get with the program Tommy.
Ela, sorry to butt into your conversation with SJ, but I wanted to comment on what you said here – "Dairy is a huge no no for me" We just had a discussion about dairy on the RBTI fb page. I have never had problems with dairy, but suddenly a short while ago started to get crazy congested from drinking milk.
It was explained to me (in RBTI language) that in the stages of RBTI (a thru e…a being the best; e the worst) only the d and e stages have issues with dairy. At the point of d and e the body is supposedly in a very depleted state and has little reserve energy with which to process anything that is more difficult to digest.
Not sure how true this is (mostly because I don't know how truly scientific RBTI is), but thought that possibly in your weakened state, it might explain some of the problems you have with these harder to digest foods. It definitely gave me something to think about.
singularlight…
no restrictions but LOTS of activity. I suggest you shut off the email notification for this group – facebook.com/#!/groups/207618959279668/
I recently did my first test and talked to Challen about it. It was quite interesting. He was able to tell me four or five major symptoms I've been having, and he didn't mention anything that I haven't been experiencing so he wasn't just guessing. One of the symptoms was very odd so I was impressed.
I'm going to try this out and follow his instructions to the letter for a couple weeks and then do another test. Hopefully it won't be for nothing!
Kelly Scott or Veiled Glory,
I found Brunetti's web page, but I can't seem to find anything on Kempf. I suppose it's not surprising he doesn't have a page himself (being Amish), but it's disappointing. Any recommendatios for how I can learn what he teaches? Or should Brunetti have it covered? Thanks.
Still curious about RBTI and exercise.
—–
What about the RBTI clients who have been doing this for years and have recovered from real, debilitating conditions (including late stage cancer)? Still a placebo effect? Just coincidence?
What's your standard of proof? Do you believe that chemoterapy actually works? Why?
Moreover, why do you believe your "moderate diet with moderate anti-oxidant beverages" is the One, True Way? Because it works for you? Do you consider that other people have done exactly that and gotten shit all for results? Oh wait, no, you already explained their failures – they're closet addicts and just don't want to face it. Nice. Real nice. Way to just assume that anyone who can't get results using your methods must ipso facto be an addict and a liar about it.
Second half of previous comment was direct at Tommy.
mitzi–no butting in problem at all–it's a public discussion.
I'm not sure how to understand your input, though–I've been celiac (i.e. unable to digest gluten) pretty much my whole life and dairy problems usually co-occur with that. Sure, the anorexia history makes everything worse. But I'm wondering whether from the RBTI perspective that means I was born 'depleted' or how to understand it.
I know that there are other health philosophies that also claim that if you're physically in good shape, allergies are likely to abate, and I definitely have seen people sensitize to things.
Thanks!
Thanks, Ela :)
I bet RBTI folks would say you were born depleted. Just a guess, since I am quite new to all this. Celiac is something that has been "cured" by the remineralization of RBTI if the talk on fb is to be believed. I am curious as to how all my symptoms would react to following the program, and have every intention of finding out when I can figure out how to do this with low fundage. God knows I've tried crazier things than this! lol It would be interesting to see what Challen would say if confronted with your numbers. This whole thing is just so very fascinating to me.
Just discovered Tran's blog about RBTI. Fascinating story of extreme weight loss and maintenance.
http://tranlifelab.com/weight-loss-on-rbti/
I've loosely been following these ideas, mainly the meal timings and sizes and instead of regimented lemon juice I just have a tall glass with every meal. I can't believe how much better and stronger I feel. And I thought I was basically healthy… but obviously not optimal. I will be ordering a kit here shortly. I'm an endurance athlete and it will be interesting to see how that effects the numbers and what Challen has to say about all that. Honestly though, I'm just looking for an excuse to eat hot dogs and pot pies.
brook I was saying those beverages like coffee and alcohol (and sugar) are poisons even in moderation and cause a lot of problems and are extremely addictive and eliminating them is best etc… a moderate diet is best because you stress less over foods and macronutrients and will get the widest range of nutrients…
this diet is pure astrology… ruling your food intake by what your piss reads on a gardening tool.. makes eat right for your type look highly scientific
anyway, good luck with it
Brock, this pdf describes Kempf"s philosophy. He's affiliated (maybe owns?) Advancing Eco Ag. http://agriculturesolutions.ca/Agriculture_Solutions_Our_Partn/2011aeaCatalog-sc.pdf
Right, that's the bummer about being Amish, no you tube, internet articles, nothing!
Brunetti and Kempf are offering a 2-day pre-conference seminar at Acres USA's big conference this December. I'm definitely going. $400 is a steal compared to the amount of knowledge these two hold.
http://www.acresusa.com/events/11conf/preconf.htm#systems
The link has a nice bio on Kempf.
Looking at some of the general recommendations reams makes I can see how following them could result in better health.
First, he lists pork as a no-no.
So really, what he is eliminating from the modern diet are some of the most proven toxic foods there are.
We are talking about most of the deli counter with boiled ham, virginia ham, salami, pepperoni, bologna, liverwurst, sausage and bacon eliminated.
These foods are ultra high in sodium, sometimes sugar, dyes and, especially with pork, carcinogenic preservatives and additives. Studies point to these foods as increasing the risk of cancer. You eliminate these foods you'll lose weight and bloating from the reduction in sodium alone.
Then he, or at least reams, recommends a sensible low meat, fat and high carb diet, which mirrors many healthy peoples diet.
As well, he recommends a light dinner, freeing up the bodies energy for repair during sleep.
Those to me sound like recommendations that would help anyone.
Anyways, good luck all.
@Brock,
Re: exercise. Here's a link to a woman who is consulting with Challen and asked him about exercise:
http://tranlifelab.com/challen-waychoff-says/
Basically he said light exercise is best (like walking). And if she were exercising too hard he would be able to see it in the numbers.
Jaqueline info – if you're hanging around, I have a ? for you. Since you seem to have done RBTI the longest around here… are you "healthy"? No health complaints, A range, etc? What rules do you still follow?
In your four years, do you know of anybody else who is good and healthy from RBTI and no longer having to be so anal about everything?
What I'm looking to know is… hmm, trying to be succinct… lots testimonials of people that are getting "better"… but still healing. I want to know if we know about anybody who has all the way healed. I want to know how long it takes (I know that depends on the person, but most healing diets seem to predict 2 years). I want to know how loose you can be once healed.
Despite everybody claiming it's a freeing diet, it is part of my, um, ethics? morals? to support local foods, in season produce, small farmers, etc. I'm not running out and eating Marie Callendar's pot pies and cheetos because I don't like them and won't support big ag. So from what I can see, I'm even more restricted on what to eat than usual – esp with every tasty HI fish on the no list.
A general point about variety… supposed to vary your diet quite a bit… but from what I can tell, it's still a very wheat heavy diet (maybe because that's what most people consume… I don't know). But hey, pancakes one day, waffles another, and toast another is not variety. Maybe I'm mis-understanding.
Learning more about the diet for under 12 yo… Ok, I can see how low or no muscle meat might make sense… but to recommend to feed your kids soy substitutes every day? Seriously? I would consider that child abuse. So would my kids. I guess my youngest has to wait two more years before he gets to consult. No way I'm feeding him soy over real food.
Funny thing is, both my boys trend toward eating little meat naturally. My daughter though… I'm not kidding about putting her into the 72 oz steak eating contest. She'd whup everybody's butt in that one hour time limit and ask for seconds.
My littlest's problem would be giving up the butter. He eats about a stick a day. WAP would be proud.
@ Lorelei aka Hawaiigirl
Yes I am still hanging around.
I have seen some improvements in my numbers. I often had headaches and tears in my eyes before I started with RBTI. I experienced this too when I drove.
When I tested more often, I saw that this was because a low urine pH and/or a low brix. Therefore I started the distilled water / lemon water / lemonade and green drinks when necessary and took some supplements.
I make sure that my numbers stay in healing range. I break a few rules now and then. I eat between meals and eat more than what is necessary.
When I am busy at work I sometimes miss a drink.
I have seen some wonderful things happening with RBTI e.g. someone who had serious problems with his stool, there would come out more than a bit of blood. He estimated that in his worst time, he would lose up to 200ml a day, that is 1/25 of his total blood content. He took a lot of medication and it did not stop the bleedings, and did make him feel awful. It was terrible for him to experience that everything he put in his mouth made things worse and that everything that comes out the other way was red. It seemed like no MD could help.
One sunny day he found out that doing RBTI could change all that, it not only makes it predictable, but gives someone the tools to act BEFORE it gives you problems.
That was the guy who introduced me to RBTI many years ago. His passion and drive to educate himself and others is just inspirational. He worked with me on my own numbers and made me the example, instead of a textbook. I experienced firsthand what RBTI can do.
What better way to learn than to see in the numbers the change in how you feel?
Nowadays I not only keep my own numbers in range, but also enjoy helping others find their way, no matter if it is just showing how to test, share a little info, or do a little more.
How long does it take for someone to be completely healed?
Obviously that depends on the genetics of the person, the reserve energy and the conditions (the permanent damage that is done to a person’s body). But I believe most of all it depends on what you call healthy/healed. In RBTI health can be measured as a percentage. 100% is full health, 0% is pretty dead. Most people consider themselves as in full health / completely healed if their conditions stay out of sight for awhile. That usually happens if a person’s health in RBTI terms is above 30%. So if that person would keep his/her health at let’s say 40% the MD’s will claim that person to be in perfect health and completely healed.
Some doing RBTI claim that you are only doing RBTI if you try to increase your health to the max. Others like me believe in balance. I settle for 70% and am fully aware that that is not full health. But in allows me to live in a matter that is acceptable to me and obviously keeps the complaints away.
But if one has a health of 100% and considers himself to be complete healed and therefore start eating pork with every meal, that person may get sick (again) and will claim that he/she was never completely healed.
Now obviously I did not give a complete answer to your question but I believe you get the point.
Thanks Jaqueline.
Just so I'm clear, haven't you been doing RBTI for 4 years? I guess I feel like you should be pretty healthy by now, even if you occasionally break the rules. Do you have any health complaints or issues that show up in the numbers?
I think what I'm trying to get a sense of, is, after a couple of years (depending on the person, of course), are you still dependent upon testing and adjusting your diet and supplements frequently? I would consider being healthy and healed to be able to just live life without all the testing and supplements, with maybe a strong but not perfect compliance with the no list. And of course no health complaints. Thanks for answering.
Yes, I have been doing RBTI for about 4 years now, but was not very strict with it in the beginning. But nevertheless, I did see and feel the changes. Then came a time when I was much more strict, but not nearly as strict as someone needs to be with a named disease. But I also believe that if you follow the diet some time, it will be much less a burden.
And nowadays my numbers are pretty good. But since I eat out enough, have a social live and some other things that upset the balance, there are some times that the numbers are further away from perfect as I would like them to be. By that times I will have some pains in the eyes, but not as bad as before.
I do test about once every week or two. Sometimes more. But doing it more may also have to do with the fact that I think running the test is fun. Most others I will test once a week. If they have a test kit of their own, I encourage them to run a test whenever they feel off, and at least once a week on a fixed day and time.
So do I adjust the diet and supplements a lot? Only for a short time after I have eaten out or did something else that is not in line with RBTI.
As far as living your life without all the testing equipment and supplements: Almost all in RBTI believe you should stick to Min-Col till you are about 100. The rest depends on the quality of your diet. If you take high-Brix fruits and vegetables, I believe you will be perfectly fine without anything. However, since most vegetables we eat are below what is considered ?average? (see Brix-chart in Matt’s post), we are not getting the minerals we should. That is the reason we supplement.
Okay, am I the only one surprised to hear in this post that Matt has been suffering with foot pain, chest pain, back pain, pet allergies, and asthma! I thought he had reported feeling pretty damn good on his HED/high starch thing and the Ray Peat sugarpalooza!
Nightshades are a biggie.
Jaqueline, you are definitely being helpful! I can't remember if you are a Challen groupie :), but do you feel that you are completely capable of RBTI-ing on your own now? One of my biggest fears (besides it not working, of course), is getting way into this and then Challen dies unexpectedly – and I have to rely on myself or others who suck at interpreting the numbers. I get the strong feeling that without him, this whole venture would be pointless.
Anon – the high sugar did Matt in after awhile, if I remember right. Like any unbalanced diet. But I could be remembering wrong.
I'm still losing weight by just following the general guidelines and light exercising (fun stuff) for an hour a day. I went on vacation and didn't follow it, but only gained a little, and then came home and lost it again. I don't vary my diet except for weekends and I only drink the lemon water a couple times a day. I'm not hungry, I'm not ravenous, I'm not even all that thirsty. I find myself to be very at peace with food and feel great. I think it's been about six weeks now (maybe more, can't remember). Oh, my menstrual cycle when I was Peat eating was very screwy and way too long (52 days). This cycle was 29 days.
Lorelei,
It does not sound like a very freeing diet to me. I'm trying to figure out what fats are allowed besides corn oil and olive oil. And for starches there's wheat and I suppose sweet potatoes because it sounds like popcorn and potatoes are out. Then there's worrying about any bit of pork in any food additives or any frying pans. And of course no sea salt in anything.
I'm with you in terms of supporting small sustainable farmers. I got pulled into that whole world when I started dating my ex. But she was never stringent. She would eat Archers Farms pizzas and DQ and other things, and I honestly I agree with her. It's too much to be 100% dedicated towards anything.
(cont)
I hear you on wanting to know time frame for healing as well. I am still planning to try it, but I don't know how stringent I'll be or how long I'll be on it. I want some symptoms to clear up that didn't exist before I tried low carb. I do not plan to do RBTI forever. At some point I want a normal life with lots of social interaction and sharing of food amongst my local foodie type friends.
Another locked group, first Yahoo now Facebook? :(
Another locked group, first Yahoo now Facebook? :(
Another locked group, first Yahoo now Facebook? :(
Ooops. I don't know why that triple posted. Sorry!@
Facebook has some creepy privacy issues. Anyone know if there anyplace more open to discussion on RBTI?
Bettsy – try Tran's blog. Good stuff over there.
http://tranlifelab.com/
Aaron, I'm with you. Pippa is more for real food than Moi was. I don't see why you can't do real food – make your own versions of pot pie and cookies and such. Even use white flour and (gasp) margarine if you must, just without the additives and GMOs and Big Ag making more money on cheap products.
I feel particularly restricted because I eat differently in HI. Different things available from local farms. But Challen, naturally, doesn't know what these are (like Taro and such). Tran, who is becoming a valuable resource in my eyes, seems to eat like me even though she lives on the east coast. There must be good Asian food stores there. So I will find out thru her what's good or not.
And then there's the fact that many things that are ok and even recommended are not easily available here – even if I didn't care about getting it locally, it would be darned expensive. Wheat based items are thru the roof. Local chicken is a no-go, and chicken is expensive. Okra? Yeah, right. Other foods he has recommended to others to eat are incredibly expensive or impossible to get here cuz they don't grow here (like okra, asparagus, bell peppers, soft squashes, grapes, cherries…). Things that are good and local and cheap are no-nos, like all the tasty fishies. White rice. Raw fish.
As for oils and such. Only olive and corn oil. That's it.
Of course, there are many, many oils in all this processed food recommended that aren't those. Somebody somewhere said as long as you rotate your processed hydrogenated industrial oils, you'll be ok. So, I can't personally take it too seriously. I think as long as you use pretty much just olive oil for cooking (and corn oil if you can get over the idea), then a little butter or coconut oil wouldn't be too bad. But maybe it does show up if you're sick enough. Coconut oil, while not on the no list, seems to be considered a no food, but butter is an occasional food (depending on your numbers). So I made cookies with butter today. Olive oil cookies… yuck. I ate my sweet potatoes without butter. It was ok.
I'll get over the salt, like Matt said, it's not such a big deal. You're going to get your minerals from the supplements like Min-Col, so just don't sweat it.
Starches are a switch too, because I became the potato queen after years of ignoring them. I have a giant potato gut. Damn, and I just bought a deep fryer to make french fries in home-made tallow. Sigh. Hello birthday food. But hey, we have 50 bazillion kinds of sweet potatoes here (so might you if you're near Whole Foods). And taro if it turns out ok. Brown rice. Corn, but not popcorn (it's the brown hulls of popcorn that are mechanically bad on your colon, like pepper is supposed to be like glass). Of course wheat, glorious wheat. I think Tran had some other ideas for starches. Maybe tapioca (cassava). How about plantains?
I'm wondering about the pork too, I keep hearing it shows up so easily. I wonder how much contamination really shows up in pans. I have Le Creuset… I guess I'll find out someday.
The time frame for healing… I still don't get a sense that anybody has healed. I'm not sure if Jaqueline considers herself healed. It's hard to tell. Maybe there is no perfect health in this world, but RBTI is going to get you as close as you can. It certainly seems like it helps people in drastic situations. Which is what Matt said awhile back – if you're pretty sick, it's worth it. If you're just a health nut, leave it alone.
I dunno, I just would like some confirmation that this method takes at least some people all the way to healthy, not just better.
Until I can afford a kit, I'm only going to switch my meal times and avoid no foods. I'm not going to mess with lemonade or anything, because you can't know what regimen you should be on without testing. Meanwhile I get to keep watching other's progress.
@Hawaiigirl
Still eat those potatoes! Sweet potato fries are my personal favorite fried tuber product. yumyum.
So far, drinking fresh squeezed lemonade throughout the day has been a huuuuuuuuuuge help on my insomnia. I also in general feel better (the first couple days I felt off, tho) and I've been losing fat and gaining muscle! I don't know how much of each, only that my stomach has been flattening, my face is looking leaner, and yet my pants are becoming tighter. i'm also a lot less stressed in general. thank goodness, relief from insomnia and other weird mood related problems! also, the problems i was having when i smoke weed have completely disappeared! this is seriously good times for me, and potentially my entire family (most of us on my mom's side are hypoglycemic).
i didn't notice much of a difference in how i felt when i took potatoes out of my diet, which was the only thing on the NONOLIST i was consistently eating. however, i did get these strange headaches that lasted for about 2 weeks. i'm going back to potatoes here in the next couple weeks to see if i start feeling worse.
currently in the process of switching the meal timing to see if i feel better. all RBTI meal timing really is is intermittent fasting.
-Anonymous
"do you feel that you are completely capable of RBTI-ing on your own now"
Absolutely I can. Look at Pippa and Matt, etc. They go to others now for testing them after learning it themselves and advise others what is best to eat, where to buy the foods etc.
On RBTI.info there is information on how to do a test and how to interpret the numbers.
When someone has his own test kit or goes to a tester several times the person can see e.g. of the Urine pH has decreased or increased. There are foods that
you can eat which decrease the Urine pH like cauliflower and there are foods that will increase the Urine pH like broccoli.
I had many teachers and do not follow only one person. I still read materials of others and look on the internet for other valuable information that I can share with others.
I understand your "fear". When Dr. Reams died valuable information disappeared. He had more students who have valuable information. There are more people who help others to get started. Some are on the other RBTI Yahoo Group which exists a long time:
health.groups.yahoo.com/group/RBTI/
You can always ask me if you would like to know something about RBTI, the program, etc. I like to help
Matt or anyone else-
What is the solution for the NH4 (Ammonium) and NO3 (Nitrous Oxide)
I have the whole RBTI kit but am missing the last two component because they can't be shipped to where I live. I can get it from another place but I need to know the solution because it comes in powder form and they need to know how much liquid to mix it with. Anyone who knows this??
Sheila
Call carolyn, she will send you the information
NolanG-
Re-read it. It is very subtle slam on those therapies. As if I am saying "If lame and ineffective therapies can be found in every town in America, then RBTI is certainly deserving to being in more places than just Wheeling, WV." But you know, didn't want to upset anyone.
Everyone else-
Sorry I haven't had time to comment. For the next few days my daily schedule will be:
Drive 6 hours. Eat lunch. Talk to people and play with their urine for 6-7 hours. Drive a few more hours. Eat 4 sun chips for dinner out of a vending machine. Sleep. Repeat.
@ Sheila
Where are you from? Would you mind sharing where you will buy the chemicals. Others may benefit from this information.
Nitrate test solution:
95% sulfuric acid, CAS#7664-93-9 0,2%, diphenylamine, CAS#122-39-4 and the rest is just water
Ammonia nitrogen test solution:
15% potassium hydroxide, CAS#1310-58-3 3,8%, Mercury Chlorine, CAS#7487-94-7, < 6% potassium Iodid, CAS#7681-11-0 and the rest is just water
And the universal extraction solution (Morgan extraction solution) is basically just diluted vinegar.
Matt-
What about 5-6 sun chips? Would that be OK or too much for dinner? ;-)
G
Sheila
Whereabouts in Denmark do you live (it's Denmark, right?)
-Beth
I don't know why the fact that RBTI is for sick people isn't being stressed enough. I am hearing people say stuff like "will be hard to get my son to stop eating butter", why does he need to stop eating butter? Does he have some kind of disease? I hope people aren't going to be following the rules of this diet because they think they will achieve superior health, if you do not have a serious disease please do not follow all of these rules! Just because Matt is really into this doesn't mean everyone should be. I myself am very intrigued about it, but I am not about to give up butter just to see my body chemistry go more towards perfection.
Lorelei,
How do you know when you're finished? That's individual and subjective. Like Janelle said, it's for sick people. If at some point I find myself trying to remember what it felt like to have my body feel cruddy a lot of the time, then I'll know I'm done.
People should stop jumping from diet to diet and take a real hard look at what they are doing to themselves and their families. Matt's facebook RBTI list is run by a faceless junk food junkie who clearly has food issues. I think her refractometer has become a way to enable herself to live on junk food. Plain and simple. People are following her all the way to Dairy Queen and they haven't even been tested themselves, nor have they seen any concrete proof that this lady even exists. This is harmful. One woman is willing to finally give up her self-proclaimed chocolate candy addiction after all these years. Sure, now that she can live on junk food she'll give up the candy. Sheeesh. Doesn't everyone know that candy isn't good for you?? Maybe she might be in better health if she would have stopped that addiction long before taking her family down the path of destruction by diet! Take a look at the list of approved processed foods they put up. Nothing but junk food like cheetos and haagen daas. Where's the list of healthy foods for those that don't want to eat crap. Ridiculous. Now everyone with an eating disorder can obsess on their numbers while they binge on junk.
I think RBTI can be helpful for those who truly want to recover their health, not continue bad habits. Eat a diet that is varied in every possible way. Stop repetitive dietary/eating habits. Stop changing diets and ignoring the addiction in front of your face. Remember, there are people who are in ill health looking for answers and will be swayed by this crap. I remember people thinking they were doing Atkins as long as they ate protein all day long. They never even read the book. Now, people can take a snippet of the RBTI and justify eating junk until they end up in worse health. People are asking if they can still drink their coffee, still have alcohol, and whatever else. Get real people. There are no dietary needs for those things. Those are lifestyle issues. You don't need a refractometer or an RBTI consultant to tell you that!!
Wake up and smell the urine sheeple!
yeah, to the commenter above, hopefully you don't ever follow RBTI, you clearly don't understand. Do you understand what convenience foods means? Just because they are compiling a list of foods that MAY be eaten, does not mean that people are only eating crap all the time!
@Anonymous,
I am one of those "Sheeples" and I have to say I am completely offended by your tirade of insults. You very clearly are attacking the choices of people who you know nothing about. I think the question you should be asking is, What is YOUR problem. I have been housebound with illness for several months and after working with 4 different doctors, RBTI is the ONLY thing that has shown me any improvement. I went from not being able to go for more than an hour without eating before becoming nauseaus, dizzy, and shaky to being able to start feeling like a normal person and not eat for 5 hours if I want to. And I have only been doing this for one week.
And I can tell you that the lovely woman who has introduced us all to RBTI is very real and has been through a very real struggle that I don't think you have any right to judge.
I was the one who asked if I could still drink alcohol. Ya, because I'm a 33 year old woman whose social life has been destroyed by illness. I would simply like to think I will be healthy enough to enjoy a glass of wine now and again someday. There is nothing wrong with that.
Finding RBTI and learning about it in hopes that it can help me has been a journey that I don't expect anyone to truly understand unless they have been through it.
I LOVE my refractometer! I love peeing on it multiple times a day, because it is a tool that is giving me the information I need to get well, information that nothing else was able to give me so far.
I would suggest that you don't form such harsh, quick judgments regarding circumstances you obvioulsy know nothing about.
You can simply choose not to use RBTI for yourself if you don't want to without being so caustic about it.
Bettsy said…
Another locked group, first Yahoo now Facebook? :(
Hey, Bettsy :)
Forgive me if someone else addressed your triple post (lol)…I didn't notice, if they did.
I'm not sure what fb group you are referring to that is "locked." I joined the one to which Matt supplied the link in the comments section on his other post. It wasn't any problem, no one asked me any questions before approving me as a memeber, and I am not even doing RBTI. I am a frequent commenter and ask a million questions, and no one has ever implied that they have a problem with my being there.
Are you sure you have the right group?
No doubt some Anon will call me a sheeple for saying this, but I've implemented the no-no foods and meal plan as an experiment these last two weeks and I'm really impressed. My breathing passages have opened up, my mental state is more reliably alert and high energy all day, and (most amazing to me) I've spontaneously begun to lose weight after NOTHING else worked. I'm down 5 lbs in two weeks, and its from all the right places.
I'm not terribly ill with anything, so I'm in no rush to buy the kit or any of the books, but if this is working so effectively for me without even getting the numbers or the consults, I can only imagine what the full benefits of this program are to the people who really need it.
I've also experimented with drinking regular water vs regular lemonade, and feel much better on water. Didn't even need a refractometer to figure it out. :)
Overall I'm pleased, and I'm crazy impressed to here the stories of recovery I do. Makes me want to learn RBTI strictly to help others.
Best of luck everyone.
"Jannis said: 'None of his children ever got sick' Says Daddy."
I think Jannis meant it as constructive criticism. A lot of RBTI skeptics would claim that Reams may have trivialized or rationalized away any contradicting evidence, as a result of confirmation bias. Jannis might have possibly brought this up to suggest how Matt's argument isn't very convincing.
RBTI requires scientific proof. Of course, the data collected from the urine and saliva tests may be scientific. But a lot of the theories derived from Reams' interpretation of that data may be wrong/outdated, and they require revision.
Hans had reported that he felt negative symptoms after he consumed bacon. Muscle meats may have relatively large quantities of the amino acid histidine, a precursor to histamine, an inflammatory substance. Muscle meats may also have unbalanced levels of tryptophan. But in processed meats such as bacon, bacteria might have already converted the histidine and tryptophan to two respective compounds, histamine and tryptamine, which could cause more severe inflammation. Thus, one's sensitivity to pork may depend on the quality and condition of the pork. Did Hans test it on fresh pork? The side-effects of bacon should not be generalized to fresh pork.
One's sensitivity to pork may also depend on gut flora. Bacteria in your gut may convert histidine to histamine, and tryptophan to tryptamine.
In addition, RBTI's prohibition against white rice and white sugar may be that they have an acidifying effect. Nightshades could cause symptoms of inflammation, such as acne, weight gain, and breathing problems.
I'll start examining Anonymous' comment for all possible "hidden insults" in his comment.
Another anonymous user found his opinion on "Cheetos" to be offensive. I bet there were twenty other of such little "insults" within his comment. It's my job to detect them now.
Or perhaps people took Anonymous' comment way too seriously, when Anonymous had intended his comment to be just a light-hearted opinion.
We'll see. I'm curious.
Anyway, I will give my personal opinion right now:
If we consider Anonymous to be insulting to RBTI followers, then by that standard, he just had insulted all the Atkins dieters, all the low-carbers, all the Ray Peat fans, and all of the rest who are on restricted diets.
I think that Anonymous was just proclaiming against all restrictive diets, not just RBTI. Anonymous was reminding those following dietary restrictions, who do not have a serious condition to recover from, to rethink about their dietary restrictions. I think that was his main point. He mentioned the "Cheetos" example to prove his point, not because he believes that all RBTI followers are like that.
Disclaimer: I am not judging the Anonymous who was offended by the "Cheetos" comment. He may be offended not just by the Cheetos stuff, but by a lot of other things mentioned in the comment. I understand that Anonymous was just offering an example of what he was offended with.
I am also aware than Sarah and Brock were just clarifying some possible misconceptions, and were sharing their experiences, just in case Anonymous really had meant what he meant. I think Brock was cool. I am neither angry at Brock nor Sarah.
Honestly I really just want to hear Challen tell us more about how the Spirit talks to him. Does he mean god? Or Reams?
Communicating with the dead is WAY more miraculous than clearing up some allergies or fixing varios illnesses. Why isn't anyone paying attention to the most interesting part of this story?
Oaaw. Take it to your own blog. nobody here needs a referree, translater or conversational babysitter. Its not your job to detect anything. Ugh
My criticism has nothing personal to do with Brock or Sarah. I realize that many lurkers and other members here may have been on Brock's or Sarah's side.
***
I was not saying that I was going to waste my time to "detect" every subtle insult. That wasn't intended to be a literal expression. Those little insults mean nothing if his main point was understood.
Anonymous: I just almost misinterpreted what you meant by "job to detect". I wasn't being careful enough to analyze what you meant. Now I know what you meant; you were referring to the words which I said; and I apologize for almost misinterpreting what you said. People just expect others to understand themselves, even if they were being unclear in their communication. Perhaps they don't know how unclear their communication is received by others. This is the mentality that causes problems.
***
If anyone has any concerns or complaints against me, please let me know. Anyone is free to criticize about my behavior, my ideas, and my intentions. If anyone thinks I'm condescending or vain, please let me know. I appreciate feedback. You can email that to me at marketanarchy@gmail.com. Though I know it's unlikely that anyone would spend their time to email me in the first place, for many (obvious?) reasons.
Anyone is also free post their concerns and complaints about here on this blog as well, so you guys can discuss about me together. I promise I won't reply to you back by posting a new comment on here. I will only reply to you through email. Basically, I am only allowed to reply to you via email, but you are allowed to reply to me via email as well as to reply to me by posting a comment here. You have a two-way street, but I'm limiting myself to one-way. Thus, you have the ability publicly criticize me, but I can't do the same thing to you back. I can only criticize you privately via email.
Again, my email is marketanarchy@gmail.com.
Please ignore my previous comment. I decided not to reply to Anonymous. Thank you.
Matt Stone: You have my permission to delete my previous comment (at 12:05 AM), and this one (1:35 AM), too, if you want to free up some space.
JACQUELINE-
Thank you! I am from Denmark. My mom fortunately knows a person, working in a hospital -that's where I am getting the two chemicals from. Unfortunately I can't (ab)use this contact for others. I was told by another that you might be able to buy it from the pharmacy also, but I have not checked up on that.
BETH-
I am from Sjaelland, if that is any help to you?
@ Sheila,
Thank you for your answer. I understand. It was worth a try.
I will look into another possibilities for the European persons who are interested to save on custom fees and international shipping costs.
Jacqueline:
Do you have an e-mail address? Just wondering (I can understand if you don't want to put that up here though)
As for all the 'naysayers' — does anyone remember anyone criticizing Matt's HED, saying "this guy's out there promoting donuts, cake, potato chips, candy and brownies and telling people that if they eat as much of these things as physically possible, they'll lose weight and get better health. What a joke!"
William Hazlitt coined a term called "ultra-crepidarian" to denote people who criticize things that they have no knowledge about.
It doesn't mean they're stupid, and I actually appreciate comments like that because it reminds me that skepticism, open-mindedness and common sense are important. I don't let it phase my interest in RBTI though, or discourage me from wanting to continue with it and keep researching as much as I want to. It's as exciting as all the other things I'm interested in, health-wise or not, which I spend just as much time researching and working on.
In other words, this is my moon-bounce, and people can call me whatever names they want, but I'm having a blast on this thing.
@ Jib
The easiest thing is to mail it to:
jacqueline AT rbti DOT info
Jib,
You mean that HED that everyone was stoked about at first and then yo-yod back to weight gain if they lost at all and feeling generally blah so they dropped it?
Or are you talking about the HED that triggered a megalomania schizophrenic breakdown in the guy who was talking it up the most for Matt and running the yahoo mailing list?
Anonymous,
Point taken. I've been forcibly hospitalized twice, been in and out of psychiatric facilities for close to 9 years and have been through self-mutilation and eating disorders, and had a brief psychotic episode just last year after the second hospitalization and subsequent outpatient therapy.
People do have to be able to step back and grab a hold of common sense and skepticism. I think a part of that is not throwing the baby out with the bathwater: there are negatives and positives with everything.
That's the price we pay for learning things. It requires trial and error. The only other alternative is to just say "fuck it," which in my experience doesn't work when I'm dealing with health issues that are literally impossible for me to ignore.
If what you're promoting is skepticism and investigation and not just going gung-ho on things without asking questions and trying to take as many variables into consideration as you can, then I agree with you 100%.
With all the issues I've had, I'm especially wary of certain things in RBTI that I could easily see blowing my problems with anxiety and obsessiveness way out of proportion.
Even if RBTI was 100% guaranteed to work no matter what for every single person in every single situation, that element wouldn't go away.
Thanks for reminding me to be careful to not let these things forget that I have a life outside of all of this, and even if I want to commit to trying it, to not drive myself nuts over it. At least that's the impression I'm getting. It's a valid point if that's what you're getting at.
*to be careful to not let these things make me forget that I have a life outside all of this
All of you haters can go to hell.
Who are you to doubt God?? Once you've died from being ill and are beng judged for your life, you'll regret all your doubting. RBTI SAVES LIVES and brings us closer to HEAVEN.
Nobody not even Matt or Challen can understand its power or explain because IT IS GOD'S.
Its your choice. You'll regreat it when we are watching you in torment from our place at His side. You think your soooooo smart. Just you wait.
remember: "But whoever has doubts is condemned if they eat, because their eating is not from faith; and everything that does not come from faith is sin"!!
Wow. That rant really silenced the skeptics. Sheesh :(
can we go back on topic?
SIN. Yea thats right I said it, SIN. Guess where sin takes you? Can your feeble minds comprehend that??
Our actions have consequence after this life AND WHY SHOULD FOOD BE ANY DIFFERENT. ?? There is a right and wrong here. None of those so called healthy people eating pig and other trash will be risen. Not even okinawans. Thats their choice. One action brings you closer to God, the other to the serpent. RBTI will get your body to perfect.
Sorry that's just for all these so called critics who are really pissing me off. RBTI DOES WORK but trying to understand like this it is impossible. God spoke to Dr Carey Reams, not Challen or Matt. ie Even reading the Bible you will not know exactly what Moses was told.
All these questions are disrespecting the true source of wisdom.
Thank you anonymous for giving full credit where credit is due … to Dr. Carey Reams, not Challen
LMAO, I swear the more you RBTI defenders speak the more foolish and cult-like it appears. Which in a way it's a pity because who knows there might be something to it and some people might really be "getting better" but your guys' unscientific claims rationalized with religion as a response to everything is pretty pathetic.
That's without even considering the millions of people that either eat out of the "no-no foods" everyday or eat meats and sweets after 2pm and are healthier than your average RBTI follower. But that gets rationalized away very quickly as well, "they just have a great mineral reserve status so they can afford to do all these 'wrong' things".
Oh, and anonymous with the religious rant, if heaven turns out to be full of non-judgemental,considerate, even-tempered, people such as yourself then I will personally request to be sent straight to hell.
P.S. there are about 21 major religions in the world today, so for all you bible lovers who are soooooooo sure that you are right and everybody else is wrong, just know that mathematically you have a 4.76% chance of actually being right (that's considering that at least 1 of those 21 religions is actually right cause heaven forbid they might be all wrong).
So seriously quit wasting your 75 years of life judging others and trying to manipulate how other people should live their lives with the fear of SIN.
Dr Carey Reams is NOT the source, only the scribe of received inspiration!! God is the true source of the message of RBTI. None of his worldly learnings helped him figure anything out until he fasted and prayed and received the RBTI one night FROM GOD. Dr Carey Reams has always humbly said so. You would know this if you read his books. How can you say to know anything if you have not read and witnessed??
Anonymous fanatic (you might at least give yourself a name) – you might want to leave the judging to God (he claimed it as his prerogative) and let others get on with with questioning and experimenting. otherwise this way of life/eating is a cult.
Wishing you and the other 143 happiness in your heaven…
" It will be necessary to go to someone taught in the RBTI in order to know how to attain perfect health in what I term the eight-lane highway of physical, MENTAL, MORAL and SPIRITUAL OBEDIENCE to perfect health. You may choose what direction you will travel ? life or death.
You will be instructed what to do about your diet problems in the laboratory tests. Follow the rules; they are God’s way of a long, healthy, useful life. The more obedient you are to these health laws the GREATER YOUR REWARD.
Really, anyone living a godly, useful, healthy life is just taking a vacation away from Heaven. Enjoy this vacation span between two ETERNITIES. Plan on leaving for Heaven and taking your vacation away from EARTH in perfect health.
God never intended for anyone to become so earthly until they were dying to go to HEAVEN, or WHEREVER THEY PLANNED to go when they leave here.
HAPPY IS HE WHO KNOWS WHAT TO DO AND DOES IT. You will know how to choose LIFE or DEATH. "
-Dr Carey Ream
written in Choose Life Or Death!
I may be getting the wrong impression, but I think fanatical anon is being incendiary on purpose to show how "crazy" Dr. Reams was. The guy could be a total kook and still have somehow found an equation for health. In fact, you have to be kooky to come up with something so way outside the box.
Rosenfelt, nobody judges but God. I feel sorry for you though.
Lorelei Dr Carey Reams was NOT crazy or a kook as you say. I am saying this to all these other Anonymous people saying horrible mocking things about God and Dr Carey Reams. I have a right to free speech as well, I am being no more indendiary than they. I will not stand by and watch slander and people with no understanding attack something that CAN SAVE MILLIONS.
What are these people so afraid off??
LMFAO!!! "None of those so called healthy people eating pig and other trash will be risen. Not even okinawans."
this is obviously a comedic spammer guys.
and I am not fanatical, quit trying to put labels on me. Uo know nothing about me. So much vitriol from people. Since when is passionate speech fanatical?? So what, I believe in God. Am I now going to be attacked for my believes? Called a kook?? Maybe look in the mirror first before judging me. None of this matters but the RBTI. It works and it will bring people closer to where they need to be.
So to the anonymous mockers and scoffers, take heed and stop trying to talk about something you know NOTHING about.
Oh, go back to saudi arabia and stone someone to prove your point! I don't want to hear it here.
That is just my opinion though.
settle down Pilgrim…
Andrew do you worship the Okinawans as the end-all of health too? because many of the Anonymous scoffers kept bringing them up. Maybe one of them was you? They have become healthier and healthier since CUTTING BACK on pork and would be even healthier if stopped. This is all in keeping with the basic framework as Carey Reams has seen.
Or are you laughing at me because I believe in the next life?? Nice. Persecute me for my believes, that's fine. Just don't be lukewarm and let some faceless cowards attack what they will never grasp. This is way too important
Anon – you are right, you are entirely entitled to your opinion, just as much as the people who slam Reams and religion. We call you fanatical to distinguish you from the other anons.
My sticking point is being rude, for both sides of the conversation. You can't persuade people by insulting them, no matter what your opinion is. That's one reason I didn't enjoy Original/Erika/Moi's posts. She didn't seem to be able to explain her views without being insulting (whether she intended to or not).
Religious Fanatic Anon, Do you have a citation for the Okinawan pork product tidbit, or was this message delivered to you, or your prophet Carey reams, through divine guidance?
-Andrew
While researching RBTI I stumbled across a few other systems that test the biological terrain using methods adapted from Reams and also Louis-Claude Vincent:
Biomedix
http://www.biomedx.com/bioterrain/index.html
Tim Ray
http://www.newtreatments.org/loadlocal.php?hid=1040
http://www.bioraynaturaldetox.com/about-bioray/bios.aspx
The numbers differ slightly from the "perfect" numbers of RBTI, but most of the general principles are the same.
And here is another page referenced in the newtreatments articles.
http://www.oirf.com/index.html#modalities
And to add another system into the mix, which is not really related to the Reams/Vincent systems but that similarly equates the level of health to a measurable number, the hardcore Buteyko Breathing folks maintain that if one has a exhalation control pause of 60 seconds or above that that person will be in a state of perfect health.
Did anyone notice that the book choose life or death has the acronym CLOD?
Clod– 2. a stupid person; blockhead; dolt.
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/clod
Isn't that ironic? (j/k)
This article calls it "The CLOD" at least 3 times, and pays the book reverence similar to that of a theologian studying The Bible.
http://www.heavenlywater.com/catalog/news.php?article=13
I had no idea rbti contained such religious dogma!
Yet another reason I can hardly wait to continue exploring the science of rbti- and learning more about its practices.
-Andrew
Oh yea, and @ Idol Worshiping Fanatic Anon, the word is beliefs, not believes- one is a noun, the other a verb- you clod.
sincerely,
-Andrew
PS sorry for my conduct, but fanatics are my pet peeve- it wont happen again.
Keep up the good work Matt!
Thanks,
Anon troll is a troll. Do not feed.
Go play in sunlight, troll.
Brock said: "Anon troll is a troll. Do not feed.
Go play in sunlight, troll."
Brock, haven't you not noticed that you were actually "feeding the troll"? You called Anonymous a "troll"; this in itself would be considered "feeding the troll."
I suggest all of us to leave Anonymous alone. Don't even call him a "troll." Calling Anonymous a "troll" only makes him more defensive.
Again, this has nothing personal to do with Brock or Andrew H. The majority of the people here may be on their side, but were too polite to call him a "troll."
I think religion has done a lot of good, for several million people in the world. Divine intervention exists, people. Most recently, Joseph Smith, the founder of Mormonism, spoke to god (and Jesus), and Mormonism has helped millions of people. Without Joseph Smith, the world would be a worse place.
Perhaps ditto for Reams. If he can talk to God, why do we mock him? We shouldn't be jealous of the man; instead, we should be happy he was willing to share what he learned. What if, instead, he were greedy and decided to share nothing?
I'm so mad reading these comments I feel like I could cry.
The main issue here is objectively analyzing RBTI. The focus is this: do you want to do it or not. If not, you don't have to worry about it. If so, you could probably use help figuring out how to do it correctly, who to consult, how much you can learn on your own, where to get supplements, and to have any other kinds of questions you have answered or discussed. I for one am confused by reading things by Challen where he says "Anyone can learn to do this," and then contradictory things like "you need to consult with someone – there's no way you can do this alone."
There are people here who can help with those questions, and I think it'd be great to take advantage of that opportunity and learn as much as we can.
Anonymous:
"I'm so mad reading these comments I feel like I could cry."
I advise saving your energy and allowing yourself to step back and relax from all of this. You know what you believe, and everyone else knows what they believe. Even if you were right and someone like me was going to go to hell, and even if you wanted to help me, there's a point where you have to take care of yourself first. You could feel sorry for me but allowing my own negativity to 'take you down with me' isn't necessary. There's only so much you can do for someone — in the end they have to decide for themselves. You can extend your hand but it's up to them to take it.
And even if I was completely hopeless, I'd still want someone to at least have compassion for me. It hurts seeing people you love killing themselves with addictions/emotional repression/unhealthy lifestyles, etc. but at this point I'm trying to accept that the most I can do is love them and extend my hand. If they don't take it, it hurts, yes, but what can I do?
I love these people in my life and want them to feel better, and in its own way that's enough for me. Being able to feel like that about someone is a reward in and of itself.
P.S. I don't mean to be preachy. Just trying to diffuse some of the tension. I don't know how much emotional disturbances and lack of sleep throw off the numbers, but judging by how I've felt every time I've gone through that, I'd assume it'd throw them off a lot.
And even if it doesn't it sure doesn't feel good! I just want everyone here to be able to sleep tonight and go to bed without any looming anxiety or anything like that, because that sucks.
Yeah, though, back on topic…well, I'm out of questions for tonight, but if anyone wants to chime in with specific questions about RBTI, shoot. You might ask a question someone else is curious about and someone might answer it and it could benefit everyone.
Why is it a problem that questions are asked about this system? Why are anonymous supporters so invested in the system that they see the originators as beyond question? Why does critical thinking upset them so?
I don't see RBTI as something that will save millions, as to me it seems complicated, anti-intuitive and very American-centred. Furthermore, if there is only one person capable of accurately reading numbers to save people (as I understand it from Matt) I think he will die before millions are saved, no matter how long he lives. However, these are merely personal observations, from the bottom of the world. Please don't let them make anyone cry.
Regarding Jib's attempt to help Anonymous:
Imagine that you are falsely accused of lying. If you are falsely accused of lying, you will act nervous and defensive. You will act defensive to "prove" that you're not lying. But because you're nervous and defensive, people will more likely to think you're lying. When in reality you're not. In other words, "the lady doth protest too much."
Let's apply it to this instance. Presume that Anonymous was falsely accused for being an "extremist." Anonymous would be angry, because he's not an extremist. It's a false accusation. So Anonymous would be defensive to prove that he's not an "extremist." However, because he was defensive, he will be more likely to be "perceived" as an "extremist" only because of his "defensiveness."
First, the secular and religious people decided to gather together and debate about the relationship between religion and RBTI. Their intentions were innocent at first; but the debate later turned heated. Both sides got offended, due to perceived insults. Both the secular and the religious people were angry. After a while, their debate became even more heated; people got more angry; a religious debater called "Anonymous" finally "snapped" at the secularists. Anonymous thought the secularists were extreme and fanatical that "god cannot exist"; he wanted to do the same, too, with his own beliefs about god (to "get even with them"). But after he did it, the secularists had begun accusing Anonymous of "imposing his beliefs," which was false. Anonymous wasn't "imposing" anything. As a result, Anonymous was angry from the false accusation of "extremism." Then he became even more defensive, but that "behavior" itself was judged to be "extremist behavior." Therefore, that behavior cannot be used as "evidence" of his purported "extremism"; just like nervousness and defensiveness cannot be used as "evidence" for "lying.".I don't think Anonymous was an "extremist." I don't think Anonymous wanted to "coerce" all of us to believe in god.
I don't think Anonymous' had the intention to "help us." At least I don't think that's the reason he was mad at us. Anonymous was mad possible because he feels that he had been wrongly accused as an "extremist." He may shout things like "God DOES exist." Some may interpret that as "extremism"; but this has nothing to do with it; it has to do with his desire to "get even" with the perceived insult, as I have discussed above.
Possible solution: Be aware of our perceived insults and misunderstandings about one another on all sides, so debates like this would not escalate into false accusations or even into physical violence.
I wasn't actually planning to post this response here. But when Jib intervened with Anonymous, I changed my mind. I felt Jib had misrepresented Anonymous. I felt that I needed to clarify to prevent any repercussions.
This was just my opinion; I may be wrong. I may be unclear, too. Regardless, this will be my only attempt to clarify Anonymous.
***
If anyone wants to reach me in private, go ahead. My email address is marketanarchy [at] gmail.com.
Anonymous is a joke people! He's subtly mocking RBTI.
This is the person who was being called "fanatic" and now "troll" I I guess? Brock so now I'm a troll? Any other dehumanizing you'd like to call me for speaking my mind??
Brock, Andrew, Annette really nice religious tolerance there. Acts 13:41.
Lorelei thank you I understand. i am not trying to persade anyone, there is no persuasion needed. I am just standing up to the negative insulting people I have read in the last 3 articles. It's good RBTI is spreading as it has done so much for me and my family. and I do NOT want to see it vandallized by cowards on some website. That's all.
Clearly I'm not welcome though. Fine, Bye everyone. Hope you find what you're looking for.
When people just received their kit they often do not know yet how to use the instruments and to recognize the numbers. For them it is good that they can ask somebody who did it before or they can check on the internet how to do a test e.g. http://www.rbti.info or watch a video on You Tube how it is done.
It is sometimes difficult to recognize the pH numbers because the colors on some cards are similar. Therefore you can check with the other pH reagents an compare with the other cards.
If someone does it more often someone will get more experience and gets more confidence in how to do a test.
In the beginning it is wise that a more experienced RBTI practioner gives advise what the best diet for the person is and what kind of supplements the person can take.
When a person has real health issues it is probably best to go to a RBTI consultant thas has helped others regaining health.
I just sent this email to Matt and was reposting it here to see if anyone else had any suggestions… I was writing to see if you had any suggestions for me. I'm currently backpacking around southeast asia for 4 months and am having a lot of digestive issues (mostly very bad indigestion and constipation). I had talked to you before about this and your resistant starch diet helped a good deal but options are limited here. I've tried increasing my fruit and veggie intake by a good bit but can't seem to get back on track. I was considering ignoring the cost and trying to load up on ONLY veggies and fruit for a few days and see if that helps. I can't seem to find any beans around here or bananas that are less that ripe. Any thoughts. Thanks a lot.
Organism as a Whole: What the bloody hell are you blathering on about, nobody gives a shit about your elitist online human social interaction dialogue.
Matt, I wish there were was a way of keeping comments on topic on YOUR blog. I like your blog posts, your comments, I hate it that I love that you are always flip flopping around with ideas. What I do hate, HATE is that 90% of the comments are useless and makes following your blog a bit of a pain in the arse, trying to fish out the useful stuff in the comments. Which there is some.
SO…
I am a skeptic of this RBTI for many, many reasons. The religious aspect, the non nonsensical rules (at times), the guru/ shady/ moneymakingish vibe I get from some of the RBTI google searches.
BUT still, the scientist in me loves the basic premise of "why guess when you can be sure", a few easy self tests that show you exactly what "random" diet you should be on to heal.
"Random", I think that is the big thing, people are sick and tired of trying random diets hoping that they will finally find the perfect one, for them. Pissing into the wind is not fun, though to catch that said whizz into a cup, to test it, then know 100% what protocol to be on. BINGO.
o Matt….
I get the impression that hopefully you are looking to streamline this approach into something that MOST people could open up to without all the weirdness attached to it.
It surely must have some merit, even if it is just in the logic of the test itself.
Are we even certain of the formula itself?
I have bought some of the kit cheap, minus the urea chemicals…gave up trying to find those for now.
So now what eh….
I am from the UK, Challen is out. I personally want to avoid the guru route for now. I will probably self test and record numbers to build up a picture and relationships with my numbers, my diet and lifestyle etc.
Are there any books or online guides that give a very simple, no woowoo outline of foods/ supplements etc to take for certain numbers?
There are lots of words on RBTI but not much in the way of simple specifics of what to do with certain numbers. Surely it can't be too difficult.
Is it possible to learn the system from Reams, choose life or death? Or is that just a big bag of hoohaa missing out the solutions too.
Why is it that all RBTI website have big disclaimers? It's not like we are being told to cut out our own hearts then to eat them.
It does not seem any more complicated than avoiding a few foods, following a water/ lemon protocol, eating the right foods at the right times, taking the right supplements for the numbers which will allow your body (GOD) to heal.
I'm sure the method of this could be condensed down into a 10 page pdf, looking forward to it Matt.
A few things, Matt even you have mentioned weight loss. Is this not at all obvious going from eating HED,to basically intermittent fasting with food restrictions… plain calorie restriction surely at the end of the day.
I have seen this question asked many times, I'm sure you are avoiding answering it because it does not tally with your previous idea. Body temp, do people healing on this system get better temps? Has yours and others you know following this, increased or decreased?
I still do not think eating commercial food, hot dawgs, skim milk and baked beans is the way to go either. It makes durian riders fruit idea seem quite logical in comparison.
I was on a road trip recently, which literally meant, eat whatever I wanted. Which is fun at the time, but to see gut activity go tits up along with other markers of inflammation go up rapidly… going that route makes no literal sense. Some foods genuinely are rubbish. I spent my whole life eating commercial rubbish, rubbish meat, milk, cereals, sandwiches, white bread, sweets, frozen meals, little to no fruits or veg. Suffice to say I am not a picture of health and certainly do not believe a diet like that will help me now.
RBTI if anything further reinforces the general "PALEO" movement in my opinion. If our major problem today is mineral deficient food then surely it is in our best interest to eat the most mineral, nutrient dense real food there is. Then to supplement with whatever is lacking due to crap soil etc.
It even vaguely makes the fruit based diet seem quite plausible. If RBTI is about energy and minerals, then surely our diet should be based on foods packed with energy and minerals and is easily utilised by the body without turning to its own energy/ mineral supply. Is that not what eating refined food does, leeches the bodies own mineral supply to help digest/utilise it? Fruits certainly to me seem most easy to digest, if that means anything to this.
A castle grok type approach, high fruit, supplemented with some animal protein and starches at time? Seems about the most logical I have seen to be honest. With of course the occasional junk treat to ease the brain strain.
This mineral thing halfway seems logical it might be part of the obesity problem, body stays hungry because has not satisfied its mineral needs eating crappy mineral less modern foods. Adds to the weight of not eating empty foods even more.
I think food reward ala Stephan Guynet is the most obviously correct. Along with general prosperity. Throughout history the wealthier people who had access to more/ nicer food, who did not need to move too much, generally were fatter. In relative terms we are all generally quite rich in terms of being able to afford to eat huge amounts of food, that tastes disgustingly good for next to no money without having to move a muscle.
I went to a country in that most people do not have much disposable incomes if any. There was only one mcdonalds in the capital city and probably very few if any throughout the whole country(along with other commercial junk outlets), and guess what, most people were "normal" in weight.
The problem with food reward is this though. Lets say in paleo times, food may have been scarce…any food scraped off the floor may have excited the brain and thus fully rewarded with its due hormones. Todays brains are a little bit more over stimulated than previously. Nobody is hungry enough to be eating roadkill. We have all tasted highly palatable foods. You can not erase that set point of reward. Once the brain has had a certain level of reward I certainly do not believe it will accept much less for long and demand that reward again. Just the highly rewarding desire and fulfilment of eating is no longer enough. Our brains have experienced too much.
We must all become monks and nuns.
Hmmm, massive comment, back on topic.
RBTI.
Matt, if you want a UK correspondence, if indeed you are looking to build this RBTI thing into something more… I could send you my numbers and symptoms to help build up your experience.
One last thing. I have been testing the brix and conductivity of my urine the last few days, the only equipment I have so far. Which is testing vaguely the sugar and salts if I am not mistaken. From what I can see these numbers rise and fall together. These numbers for me are highest for my first morning whizz. Is this normal from what anyone else has seen?
Is this not just showing concentration levels, as obviously a morning wee has been brewing for say 8 hours collecting more waste. Highly concentrated needs more hydration to dilute?
The Brix number is measured with the refractometer. The brix number is a value. 5.5 is the division between inclination between high and low blood sugar levels.
So actually 5.49-5.5 is a good number if the rest of the numbers are off. 1.5 is perfect if all the other numbers are perfect as well There is much in between.
At night the body corrects itself. What this usually means is that the body sets the Brix to the right value for the rest of the numbers. Usually for most that is higher in the morning than in the afternoon
We are working on getting the UREA chemicals and PH reagents to Europe for a reasonable price.
@ Mike
Perhaps I understand what's going on, but there was not a lot of information. You could have a high Urine pH; that could explain the constipation.
Vitamin C will be a crutch but it could work if you can order that Dosage to start with 1000 mg between meals.
possible parasites.
It is important that you drink enough water
You should try to swallow calcium, preferably a source of calcium Lactate. That will help to decrease the pH
Much more fruits and vegetables often helps. Notice the word often. In this case, this could be difficult for you. Vegetables should be cooked for its metabolism. Just avoid meat and nuts.
Just to give a bit more info in relation to the contipation. I have been eating a good about of fruits and veggies which makes me thing it is something other than the meals I'm consuming. I've considered a parasite being the culprit but don't really know how to go about taking care of that in a foreign country. Now that I think about it I don't really get a lot of Calcium over here. Do you recommend a supplement or getting it through some milk? its not easy to find supplements where I'm at at the moment. Let me know if you have any questions that you think would give you more info for solving this dilemma. Thanks for the input.
Since RBTI practitioners seem to be very religious and since Dr. Reams was both a scientist and a religious person I wonder what his views would have been on the use of ENTHEOGENS in order to get closer to God???
From what I gather the consumption or use of entheogens such as the amanita mushroom, psilocybin mushroom and the ayahuasca plant and other entheogenic plants by early humans probably played a role in the origins of religion.
Since many people seem to think that Dr. Reams was a brilliant scientist I can't help but wonder if he knew about the connection between entheogens and the origins of religion?
The other user had left, now I just want to get something else off my back:
I sympathize with those who were being shunned, silenced, and dismissed by others, for their fringe beliefs. I understand how this can be frustrating. But I don't think anyone here was dismissive of RBTI in that way.
The critic of restrictive diets ("Anonymous") claimed that some Atkins diet followers haven't even read Robert Atkin's book. Yes, Anonymous actually said that in his comment. He was implying that people should investigate before starting a restrictive diet. In other words, Anonymous was promoting skepticism and investigation; he wasn't "attacking" RBTI followers.
I think Anonymous was half-joking about calling us "sheeples." Notice the exclamation mark ("!") after the word "sheeples." The exclamation mark could mean surprise, but it could also mean laughter. Maybe if Anonymous had replaced the exclamation mark after "sheeples", with a smiley, it would have been better received. It would have meant "sheeples XD", which means that he was joking about calling us "sheeples." (It's an intentional exaggeration.)
I didn't mean that no one shouldn't be offended by Anonymous at all; I meant that people overreacted to Anonymous. (I'm referring to the "Anonymous" who was criticizing restrictive diets.)
I am not rephrasing anything I said before, but the topics of my posts may be the same; and that alone could be frustrating to some.
@ Mike
You need two things to become a host for parasites. The first is the easiest: getting into contact with them. While traveling the way you do, this one is impossible to avoid.
So that leaves us the second one; providing them with foods and a environment they feel comfy in. One of the things that helps building a comfy environment for them is increasing your pH. Eating more greens will do that. So while you were eating that way, it was a matter of when parasites would come, not a matter of if.
If you urine pH is high, you will likely experience constipation and have more tendency to parasites, if your pH is low you will experience loose bowels to the point you get diarrhea and will have more tendency to yeasts and funguses.
In good fruits and vegetables (if you can find them) there are enough calciums. I should not worry about that for now. But if you can, get vitamin C; not for the vitamin, not because it is one of the finest things to prevent sickness, but because it will lower your pH.
If you can’t, please take the time to look at some of the food pH charts. I have a really good one, but that is in Dutch (sorry), and won’t do you any good. A quick Google showed:
rense.com/1.mpicons/acidalka.htm
Now please understand that I do not know the quality and accuracy of this list. Please keep away from the soy, even though it is not that bad according to the list. Grains will likely be beneficial for you, especially brown rice.
OAAW. None of your posts are relevant to the topic of RBTI. take it to your own blog, nobody wants to read it here.
@Mike
What parts of southeast Asia are you travelling in?
Speaking from two decades of backpacking experience …. it sounds like you may have already contracted something, be it parasitic or viral or some other infection. You should locate a travel clinic immediately.
The faster you address the issue, the less time it will have to dig in.
Trust me on this. I know way too many people whose digestive health was badly impacted for YEARS after traveling in Asia. Some permanently. They all wished they'd gone straight to a clinic instead of waiting and seeing.
You should be v wary of just loading up on random produce in that part of the world. Unless you have access to hydrogen peroxide, diluted chlorine bleach, distilled vinegar or other disinfectants for washing.
Your approach to "healthy" should be completely different in that environment. No amount of internet health food musings from western industrialized countries or searching for supplements will help you more than basic common sense.
Drink only bottled/distilled water, and eat food prepared with it. You should be carrying some form of water purification too.
Stay away from freshwater swimming/wading.
Crappy packaged food is actually a safer bet healthwise than lots of fresh produce.
Vitamin C is a good idea for immune boosting, but it's something that would have helped a lot more before the fact. Doubt that the sources of supplements you have access to will help much compared to western stores.
So get ye to a clinic! Safe travels man.
Jacqueline,
I just received a test kit for a new aquarium. It tests for Ammonia, Nitrate,and Nitrate levels as well as ph. The measurements are in ppm. Is it possible to test ureas with this test? I was hoping I could use it since I had to get one anyway. And, could those in Europe get this test equipment from an aquarium shop in their country?
Also, I just tested my sugar and ph tonight.
sugar 5.8 5.75 urine and 6.5 saliva
I am still waiting for the condutivity meter.
Thanks,
Deedle
For those with parasite issues give Humaworm (humaworm [dot] com) a try.
I did a course last time this year and it was pretty impressive – probably going to do another one this year. Parasites in humans are for real and can have some pretty crazy effects.
To clarify my long winded passage from yesterday: Is there a book or online resource that allows one to learn the system in the numbers?
Does Reams CLOD go into specifics?
I have a test kit and want to self learn for now, anything I have seen so far gives the general guidelines but does not go into number specifics; what to do/ take for certain numbers. I'm sure seeing the numbers like Challen does is a lifetime learning thing but the general basics can't be too difficult?
On another note, I hated the fact that white potato and butter is a NO. Super buttery mash was one of my best. Generally that combo, if I am honest makes me crash, probably all the time. Last night at about 9pm I had a plate full of it and got so tired I laid down on the floor and slept.
So I eat heavy after 2pm along with a big pile of NO,NO.
Can somebody give me the science behind not eating heavy after 2pm.
Likewise the science behind why butter is bad, along with white potatoes. Does combining two no foods multiply the negative response?
What changes in someones numbers if they eat heavy at night, and/ or eats no foods?
@Mike:
You might also try eating raw and crushed garlic if you can. It's pretty much one of the most powerful natural anibiotics out there, with less side effects. You can put some crushed garlic cloves (maybe like 1-3) in hot water with lemon juice to mask the taste.
So if you experience any weird reaction after eating raw garlic, chances are you have some kind of parasite. And if you don't it might still be a decent idea to consume raw garlic every now and then if the sanitary situation is really as bad as people say.
Of course this is more of a supplemental treatment. So if you really feel like you have contracted something, then going to a clinic, as joe said, is probably the smartest thing to do.
@ Lee
If you wish I can help you to get started. I can take a look at your numbers and will let you know what I would do in your situation. Of course I will explain why as well.
I also have an idea of a book that will help you getting started as well.
If you are interested please send me an e-mail.
Hello Jacqueline,
That'd be great. What is your email?
Oh, are you part of the rbti.info page?
@ Deedle,
Thanks for sharing. I wonder if this is accurate enough.
Could you please send me the specifications and more details about the Urea test kit?
Maybe it is possible that you send me a picture after testing including the color cards?
Then I will take a look at it and will let you know.
please keep in mind that I do not have all your numbers.
Your Brix number is elevated, causing a tendency towards high blood sugars. Your oxygen levels are slightly decreased, while your sugars are increased. That may cause a bit of anaerobic fermentation, causing your alcohol levels to be slightly higher than normal. If that is the case, that will cause slightly higher body temperature.
Since our digestion is partially based on the difference in pH of the foods within the digestive track, and since the pH of the urine and the digestive track are related, the urine pH gives a good indication on how fast the foods go through the digestive track, but we must also consider the saliva pH for that matter.
If both are at 6.4, the food goes through the digestive track at the right pace, and encounters the right digestive enzymes at the proper times. That would cause the minerals and elements to be loosened from their bond in the foods so the digestive track can accept the required nutrients and trace minerals.
Your body will have a much harder time picking up a smaller percentage.
Even though your system will absorb some of the elements, like some calcium and some vitamins, your test still clearly shows you won't accept them in an optimal form. Therefore we would expect mineral deficiencies, the breakdown of bone tissue, which is the body's last resort on controlling your pH. Consider a range of alkaline forming calcium's in a small amount. A bigger amount will not be absorbed and will stress your digestive system even further.
The saliva pH shows the strength of the liver and the digestive enzymes it is producing. To objective is to get the pH to be as close to saliva pH 6.4 as possible.
Your Saliva pH indicates this part of your numbers is in the healing range
@ Lee
The easiest thing is to mail to:
jacqueline AT rbti DOT info
Thanks for the responses. I just traveled throughout Indonesia for a month and I am not in Malaysia soon to be in Thailand. After Thailand I will be heading to Laos and Cambodia. I actually had a bowel movement today. It was solid, not too dry, and all around healthy looking but maybe not quite as big as I would have liked it to be after not having one for 4 days. Things seem to be a bit better than last week where I went roughly 5 days without a BM and was incredibly bloated and uncomfortable during those days. I'm passing gas and not bloated at the moment. Feeling much better. Hopefully this upward trend will continue. I will take all the advice into great consideration and definitely check out a travel clinic if this persists. Thanks for all the input. Keep the advice coming if you have any more. It is greatly appreciated.
I'm adding this because I checked out the linked acid/alkaline chart and a bunch of others and they all seem to contradict each other. I'm a bit confused. Some have beans as been acid and others alkaline. The same goes for oranges, bananas, oats/oatmeal, and a bunch of others. Just thought I'd throw that out there in case someone could explain.
@Jacqueline,
Thank you for your response. This is very interesting- especially since I have some real numbers to work with.
I will see about getting you a copy of the color card when I have more time this afternoon. in the meantime, here is a basic breakdown of my card. Based on the kit that Pippa had, this one is not as accurate.
The NO3 (Nitrate card) starts at
0 ppm
5.0 ppm
10 ppm
20 ppm
40 ppm
80 ppm
160 ppm
The NH4 (Ammonia) starts at
0 pm
.25 ppm
.5 ppm
1.0 ppm
2.0 ppm
4.0 ppm
8.0 ppm
I was going to run a test today in a couple of hours (as well as test my aquarium- all the fun!!!)
I will let you know what comes of it. Thanks again
Deedle
@Jacqueline,
Also, could you give me an example of an alkaline forming calcium?
Thanks,
Deedle
Jacqueline,
Sorry but you really don't know what you're talking about. Wrong across the board, especially on the saliva pH stuff. Why are you here, to gain clients away from Challen? Did you ever study under Reams?
People should stick to Challen, this is why – because even people who are so-called doing RBTI and reading numbers can be so wrong and do great health damage. Stick with the person who's studied it directly from the teacher.
Just gathering information at this point. I am actually going to consult with Challen when I get this all dialed in.
I just did a test with my aquarium kit. I think it's a no go on that. It is not accurate enough. My ammonia levels were .25 ppm and Nitrates were 0 ppm.
Also, I just tested my blood sugar again and it went from 5.6 this morning to .5 at 11 am. No wonder I was feeling light headed. Talk about validation for feeling blah.
At this point, I will have to leave the aquaruim tests for the fish-
I will have to get the real urea test. Another paycheck away—At least my fish will be healthy……
Deedle
I mean sugar in urine- whatever…..just learning…
Deedle
@Deedle
Seen the specs, there is no way your urea kit is accurate enough. Sorry.
@Mike
One small bowel movement in 5 days is not good. People not doing RBTI will have 0.5 to 2 a day, most on the program will have 1 to 3 a day. Please do consider getting to a clinic. There is a time and place for alternatives and for drugs. Keep Traveling Joe's comment in mind!
Anyone who asked about the pH's and foods: there are some who test what the pH of food is, others who test the pH of the ash of foods. Both mean nothing. It is what the foods do to our chemistry. So look for 'acid forming' instead of 'acid' foods.
@RealRBTI
I completely agree. Jacqueline should stay away, and people should only listen to Challen. People should pay more attention to you and listen to you, since you are related to Challen and do not post under your own name. As you have seen Jacqueline seems to be willing to share her knowledge of RBTI free of charge, so she has got to be bad.
Now to get more serious.
About studying under Reams… All who taught for him work differently as Challen. I know more then one who calls him Mr Wayoff. Almost every big consultant is saying he/she is best and the other ones are off. Only few are willing to have an open discussion and learn from each other.
As everyone who studied under Reams knows, RBTI is for the world, not for a single practitioner. His last wishes were to work together and fill in the (huge) gaps of RBTI. All of his prime students have done what Dr. Reams asked from him and started teaching. Challen was not.
With that said, I do honestly believe that Challen is doing RBTI and gets a heck of a lot more than the average consultant, but he is not flawless. His teachings are proof of that.
If you want to go against Dr. Reams' wishes and say the BTI is only for Challen, please call yourself RealCBTI, with the C for
Challen.
OMG Erika (posing as RealRBTI this time, aka Moi and Original)- leave other people alone!!!!!!!! You are not the final authority on RBTI.
Jaqueline has been helpful and pleasant. She is able to explain things in a common sense way. She doesn't get defensive or act like she knows everything. She doesn't get rude and insult people who don't believe just like her. Unlike you.
And as for your junk food obsession – from the man (Challen, in case you're wondering) himself:
Q ? Can I eat a prepared/packaged meal with a no-no food (like cottonseed oil) in the ingredients, especially if that no-no ingredient is at the very end of the ingredient list?
A ? It depends on your mineral supply. A healthy person can stand to lose some energy from eating that food, but an unhealthy person can’t. Stay with whole foods as much as possible. I know people aren’t perfect, so eating pre-packaged foods once in a while is okay, but stick with whole foods most of the time.
Hear that? Stick with WHOLE FOODS MOST OF THE TIME.
So you are not telling us what Challen has taught.
And if you're not Erika, I'm sorry. You sound exactly like her.
I'm not afraid to use my name. I'm not going to constantly switch mine around.
William,
What are you talking about? Jacqueline works with and for you. She's listed on your sight. And you're both wrong on RBTI in some real serious ways. If you've got gripes about Challen and want to call him names or show you're somehow more knowledgable than him. take it somewhere else.
@ William,
Thanks, I will just get the real kit- it's ok- I just got an aquarium so I needed the test kit anyway.
thanks for all of your input- though I know that you don't all agree. I am just sifting this out for myself.
I had a Marie Callendar's Chicken Pot pie for lunch. I can make much better. It has 38 grams of fat- most being soybean oil. What would be the harm in 38 grams of butter? Also, could it be different using unsalted butter? would the salt in the butter affect the numbers?
Ok- I have spent too much time on this today.
Deedle
I like how over on FB they're saying that Tran (from the Q&A above, where Challen said to eat WHOLE FOODS) must be confused or wrong, since it doesn't match what Erika said. I wonder how much damage she's doing to RBTI?
Since I have already wasted a day on this:
I just got my conductivity meter today, and tested this afternoon. It doesn't read my urine. My tap water, however, is horrible.
Now I need to see if I can return it. Otherwise, it will be another gadget for my aquarium (my free aquarium is getting expensive). My feedback would be, save for the testing equipment that is known specifically for RBTI. For me, I will have to buy in increments.
Lesson learned.
Deedle
from Challen RBTI facebook group run by Erika Pippa etc:
Q: I’ve heard that organic is not recommended. Why is this?
A: Organic food tends to have less nutrients in it than conventionally grown food. And this is something, that if you own a kit, you can test out for yourself.
Q: What about the ‘stuff? they spray on conventional produce? Isn’t that bad?
A: While I am sure it isn’t good, the lack of minerals in the organic food is worse. It’s the lack of minerals that causes sensitivity to these chemicals. A strong mineralized liver has no issue. There is more issue getting less mineral than a little chemical. I know. WTF? A good rinse in water is all that is needed.
Q: I have (insert diagnosis here) and the docs said it is not curable. Will it go away?
A: We can’t talk about specific diagnosis. Those are copyrighted terms owned by big pharma and docs who want their names on something. But we can say that this program will allow your body to pick up the energy and the elements needed to correct imbalances
Q: I thought I was supposed to slather all my food with copious amounts of butter. No butter?
A: Right. Stop it. Now that’s not to say you can’t have caramel syrup on your ice cream because butter is an ingredient in there, but quit using the butter every day!
Q: Corn oil!
A: Yes. Corn oil. It’s ok. Really.
Q: Challen said I could use soy products. What about my thyroid?
A: Those big worded badies in soy are not the real problem.
Q: Why is pork so bad?
A: Pork is the vilest of the no foods. Even a trace can cause a big upset in the chemistry of the human body. No one should ever eat pork or anything made from it.
Marie Callender's Chicken Pot Pie (not the beef, which has potato)
Marie Callender's Fruit Pies
Fritos
Cheetos
Michael Season's brand natural "cheetos"
Krispy Kreme doughnuts
Smucker's Butterscotch toppings
Pepperidge Farm Puff Pastry Turnovers
Breyer's Ice Cream – some flavors (watch for chocolate, nuts, seeded fruit)
Haagen Dazs Ice Cream – same as Breyer's
Golden Oreos
Sun Chips Original (only the original are kosher)
Wal-Mart's Great Value brand soups – some are kosher, check label
Digiorno 4 cheese pizza
Bubba Burgers
Lawry's Seasoning, Kosher Salt, Regular Table Salt
Morningstar Corn Dogs
Hebrew National Hot Dogs
Triscuits
Hillshire Farm turkey in the box with the red lid.
Oscar Meyer turkey bologna
In the bible, pork is considered unfit for contact with the human mouth because of the following reasons:
1) During bible times, pigs were known to dig up human graves and feed on the decomposing remains. This was a common occurrence in the fertile valley (modern-day Jerusalem). Pigs were (and still are) big hungry scavengers, and they're good diggers besides. You put a pig near a lazily-dug grave, guess what happens? Corpse breakfast, lunch, and dinner, until the corpse is picked clean. Thus, eating pig was akin to eating man, and god DEFINITELY frowned on this.
Source: Lives of the Predators, page 175 ( or somewhere else in the chapter titled "Pig.")
(The question arises, though: if God didn't want pigs eating human remains, why didn't he just eradicate Mr. Pig from the face of his earth? Well, I don't pretend to know the answer to this.)
2) During bible times, pigs also ate trash and their own feces much more commonly than other animals. In fact, today, pigs still eat trash and their own feces quite a lot. God probably didn't/doesn't like this either.
Source: Lives of the Predators, page 175 (or somewhere under the chapter titled "Pig").
Further ponderings:
Pigs are the only animal that can pack fat like a human being; pig skin and human skin come in strikingly similar shades; pig organs can be used as transplants for human organs, when humans share this affinity with no other animal.
@ facebook food list –
We have almost none of the listed foods in New Zealand (they sound particularly unattractive) – luckily, there are our own versions of junk food. :)
How did eating and digestion get so complicated?
An aside – how many pigs slaughtered for food get to eat from lazily-dug graves these days? Even the ones I've seen in China live in styes near gardens or markets and the graves are far away.
Clearly Erika is the interviewee on the July blog post "RBTI Testimonial". Although some of her details are different on the interview versus their facebook group. In the interview in *July* they say she has been consulting with Challen for 6 months, that would be over 7 months at this point. On their facebook group she says 4 months. Clearly she is Moi, originalRBTIer, RealRBTI and likely some of the anonymous posters here. Why the deception Mr. Stone? You and Pippa have spent time with her and you knowingly allow her to use multiple identities here. This goes against your credibility as a researcher. She doesn't even have an identity on facebook. And why does everyone this this Tran is anything special?? People stop jumping from one unknowledgeable, self-proclaimed "expert" to the other. This blog's readers deserve some explanation. You put her up as a testimonial and right up front could have simply explained she wanted to remain anonymous. YOU knowingly allow her to post here under multiple identities and have the facts of her RBTI "story" mixed up. You have people trying to heal here and RBTI deserves more than the flakey attention you've been giving it. All promotion and no facts. Just drip a few scarce details out from time to time until you can get your book done and then you expect us to spend money on it. You don't even have me any where near "chomping at the bit" for anything you might write on the RBTI subject. You have already established a lack of credibility with your relationship with the Erika/Moi/OriginalRBTIer/RealRBTI/anonymous person. If there really is such a person.
Whoa, relax, Matt doesn't control who write what on his blog. He never deletes anybody, except obvious spam posts (w/links to websites). I should know, he's let me rant and rave, along with plenty of other people, about totally crazy off topic and on topic things. He's not in league with Erika. He lets her post, just like he lets the pro-vegan and pro-80-10-10 and everybody else post. And Matt (seems to be) a really nice guy. I can't imagine him dissing anybody in person just because their ideas are not the same as his. So what if he's friends with Erika? I'm friends with plenty of people whose ideas I consider loony.
It's up to you as reader to decide what's plausible and if Erika has anything of value to offer to you. Just like you get to decide if Matt does or DurianRider or anybody else out there on the blogosphere.
I think Erika does have some interesting insight. I just *personally* find her abrasive and unwilling/unable to examine and explain her beliefs, at least online. She's probably lovely in person. She's just found her "cure" and she's too excited to see that others are put off by her zeal. At least that's what I tell myself when she annoys me.
*I* like Tran because she directly asks Challen the questions we're all wondering and then posts the answers. So in a sense, yes, that does make her an expert.
Anon dissing Erika,
I am hardly here to claim I know anything about Erika, or to defend her since I have not vetted her nor met her in person. However, I would like to challenge one thing you said in your post. She does have a fb identity. Her account clearly lists her location, husband, etc. just like any other normal user…in fact, more details than some.
If you have found inconsistencies in her story, that is an entirely other matter, and I will state honestly that I have not tried to chart her details to see if they remain consistent. I can see why you would be disturbed by this, but haven't figured out why you claim she has no fb identity.
As for Tran, she has never claimed to be an expert. She is merely sharing her "life experiment" as she navigates the waters of this RBTI thing. She has never touted herself as anything else. I don't think that anyone relates to her as an expert, but as someone willing to question Challen and report back with the answers she is given. She even reminds readers of those posts that it is based on her recollections and notes, and thus subject to mistakes. Can you get any more humble than that?
There are plenty of reasons to be wary of this RBTI thing, and a venting of your frustration is understandable, but why go after people who are just trying to heal themselves and are willing to share their experiences? If you are unhappy with the stories on display here, wouldn't your time be better spent trying to learn about it from others? Matt isn't the only sgame in town.
Lorelie, funny how you changed your tune to Anonymous once Matt was challenged. You are wrong and I have to agree with Anon. Matt and Erika have been in the same locale for several weeks I gather and you want me to believe, that under his nose, she is changing identities and posting on his blog and he is none the wiser?? Is he that thick? He interviewed her for crying out loud. If nothing else it sure makes you wonder about her. Hey, I'm glad she is healing. I'm here for the same reasons as you, but I'm a newbie here and I just don't see any reason to stick around. This RBTI stuff is hard enough to understand without these shenanigans going on. I too, dont see tran as any kind of expert since she is just, hopefully acurately, reporting what someone else says. that doesnt make anyone an expert.
Huh, how am I anonymous? I always post under my name… um, duh, how else did you know it was me posting?
You're missing the point – Matt doesn't monitor how she posts, or under what name. Honest to God, I hope he has better things to do than sit and stare over Erika's shoulder and make sure she's not changing her name again. LOTS of other people have changed their monikers on this blog, and if you're a Newbie, I guess you haven't been around to see it happen. Those of us who have been here awhile are familiar with all the different people who frequent this blog.
You're just getting strange and angry now. Again, it's up TO YOU to use your brains and decide what you believe – FOR ANYTHING written on the internet. If you care that much, then figure it out for yourself. If you don't, then why waste so much time worrying about it?
Has anyone looked at reams retreat dot com? Know anything about them? Willing to spend a little time in Kentucky to check them out and report back? ha ha ha ha
I've also read that the Mayans thought pig flesh tasted just like human flesh.
-Anonymous
O my. Remember these great pics of Matt that used to be on the banner here but have now suddenly disappeared from rotation?
http://zentofitness.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/04/bannerpic.png
Those shots were the best. I guess there'll no more making delicious economic and humble fromage de t’te full of minerals and fatsoluble vitamins. It would have to be symbolic of him slaying the vile devil swine instead, now.
Sad how superstition and black & white thinking can get to even the sharpest of us if its dressed up fancy enough. sigh.
@ -Anonymous – maybe it's the other way round – Polynesians ate "long pig".
I am curious, what does pork do to "the numbers" that's "bad" anyway? Does it affect sugar, or ph or what?
thanks,
-Andrew
@ Annette –
Offtopic here but why on earth would you ever want to eat junk food in NZ? You have access to the /best/ of everything down there! :D And great soil health too.
You don't even want to know how much we're … okay I'm … willing to spend per month on New Zealand grassfed lamb and butter and cheese here in the US of A. :D
Have the immigration laws loosened up at all? Moving there is a secret wish. Also much love to ChCh.
Annette, you are hilarious! lol :)
It makes sense that homo sapiens would taste like pork… they're both monogastric (stomach with one chamber) omnivores with very alike diets.
Also, my grandpapa is alive today because of a pig heart valve transplant. Sometimes we call him grandpiggy. :)
Andrew>> You won't get a good answer to that beyond "it causes a loss of energy". Pork can hit any and all of the numbers. but your numbers can still be perfect even while you're eating pork.
The Flying Spaghetti Monster works in mysterious ways.
No CHEETOS or Marie Callendars in New Zed? Poor Kiwis. :<
How long has Erika/Moi/Original/RealRBTI (any other names since she can't seem to use her real name) even been doing RBTI or associated with it … not for very long. I think she needs to keep her mouth shut.
@Hobbit – afraid I can't suppress my Kiwi sense of humour (think similar to British, understated and heavy on the irony).
@ yet another anonymous – I never heard of Marie Callender till the last few weeks, so haven't felt too deprived. What are cheetos? I'm sure we have local equivalents to all the 'allowed" junk but it's a while since I shopped for dinners in boxes. :)
I made a nice goat curry with rice for last night's dinner. Followed by homemade cheesecake (raw cream cheese made with kefir, lemons off the tree, farm eggs). Chinese tea to finish. Slept very soundly. :)
Anonymous (you people need numbers or something :P) the reason Erika or whoever it is matters is because she's Matt's main interview. Looks like all of the past RBTI articles with a specif person are referring to her. She was talking about looking into this stuff in the comments back in January iirc, so at least she's had some time to learn and report stuff.
I'm personally waiting and seeing.
@ Annette, regarding pigs eating from lazily-dug graves:
Yes, for the most part (maybe 99.992%, at least?), pigs don't eat from lazily-dug graves anymore, I would argue. Thus, they should be okay to eat, now.
But regarding bible times: sound arguments have been posited about the bible's authors' reasons for forbidding the ingestion of pig, on an almost universal scale, and most of said arguments can be traced back to the pig's eating habits (again, back in bible times.) Lazily-dug graves were more the norm, then, I think the arguments go.
The question now is: why do these religions still fear the pig? And: is a modern-day pig any dirtier than a modern-day chicken? A modern-day chicken scares the sin out of me.
But I eat bacon on a semiweekly basis, 'cause my mother-in-law serves it for breakfast, and I'm good at being polite.
Also, bacon dipped in maple syrup might help restore the numbers a little, and this is usually how I eat it.
@anonymous bacon eater – with Maple syrup?? Sounds really weird to me.
Bacon and fried eggs, yes; pancakes and maple syrup, yes; bacon and maple syrup – that feels wrong. Obviously, we eat differently in NZ and our food is much less sweet compared to Americans', from what I can gather.
Annette, that meal definitely sounds like divine inspiration to me! Cheesecake and curry are two of the few items in a meal that gives me a joyous, almost euphoric attitude after ingestion.
I cant wait to combine them soon… I'm salivating like a dog here.. had to settle for sauted beef with onions and fried rice, with plenty of butter, and a bit of liverwurst (I felt obligated to eat a pork product), oh yea, and chocolate tonight.
Miss Piggeh, that's exactly what I was thinking.
One more question; Is chocolate as elusive as pork in the way it affects the numbers?
Chocolate (and maple syrup) does contain significant amounts of minerals; when this blog stared talking about re-mineralization I grabbed a bag of dark chocolate immediately! http://nutritiondata.self.com/facts/sweets/10636/2
thanks,
-Andrew
Missed that last comment; yes maple syrup and bacon is disgusting, but most of my friends say its the best.. it is truly mind boggling.
Dear Annette, a diff Anon Bacon Eater here :]
The salty-sweet contrast is actually delish. Esepcially if the bacon is still warm!!
Maybe it's a US thing, but our trademark hyuuuge restaurant breakfast portions will often contain all of the above: eggs, bacon, pancakes & syrup, hashbrowns. All on one honking big platter.
Maple syrup and melty butter is bound to creep over and start doing illicit things with the crispy pork. Trust me, it's worth the sin. :]
Dear Andrew H, you have not seen God until you've tried a stack of dark chocolate chip pancakes sandwich layered with hot bacon and a quick drizzle of Vermont Dark Amber syrup. Choirs of angels and ecstatic eye rolling, I tellin ya. :]
Hmmm – I think I'll keep the bacon and pancakes on separate plates, thanks.
:D Thanks for the civilised conversation, guys. I've really enjoyed it.
You are all most welcome to visit our land of milk and honey (manuka of course), as long as you can say you have at least heard of the Rugby World Cup. Immigration is still reasonably stringent, I'm afraid unless you can fill our skills gaps (see relevant govt website).
@ Annette
Funny you mention the Rugby World Cup. I work for the Netherlands Rugby Union; I organize the international rugbymatches when they are held in the Netherlands. At work we cannot wait till this big event starts. I hope you will enjoy the matches as well.
@AndrewH
"I am curious, what does pork do to "the numbers" that's "bad" anyway? Does it affect sugar, or ph or what?"
Eating pork will first lower the UpH (about a day after eating it), and that will climb back to normal over the next couple of days. But while the UpH is still low, the liver is kicking in to expel it, lowering the SpH. After 7 days it has left the system. That is why Challen can see when someone ate a no-no. Some no-no’s also affect the conductivity, some the Brix, some the urea’s. That’s what tells him what the no-no was.
This works on everybody who’s reserve energy is low. Some call this a gimmick, I call it useful. Challen is one of the few RBTIers who rely on this heavily and I believe his knowledge of this is above and beyond everyone else’s. But understanding how the no-no’s affect the numbers if your minerals deposits are low is just one small facet of RBTI.
OT (sorry) but a link for Jacqueline and Hobbit – http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Dc0Gf5Ql1U&feature=mfu_in_order&list=UL – flash mob haka in Queen St
Jacqueline, thanks! That sounds so weird- why does pork cause that change (but not meat in general), does anyone here have verification of this increased acidity in their own numbers? what if you ate the pork covered in baking soda, or had a big gulp of rbti's calcium hydroxide and sulfur drink right after eating the pork?
What about chocolate?
Thanks a million,
-Andrew
Really surprised that with as many well read Christian, religious and other folk here nobody notices all the biblical numerology in all this. I am a former seminary student so maybe I just have more of an ear for it.
Seven numbers in the health equation. Seven special sugars. Seven special calciums. Seven days to recover from pork. The Lord worked six days on creation and rested on the seventh day, and blessed it. Seven plagues, seven angels, seven vials, seven heads of the beast.
For people who do biblical numerology, seven is supposed to stand for completeness or perfection. It's one of the heaviest used numbers in the bible and people have read a lot of symbolism into it.
Someone pointed out Reams was a Seventh day Adventist? They are hardcore biblical literalists. Obsessed with keeping holy the historical seventh day of the week (Saturday) instead of Sunday. They're different from all other denominations in this. In the endtimes (according to them) this was how God would pick the true followers of Christ from the false. The Catholic church and other groups who keep Sunday holy are seen as evildoers and oppressors.
Obsessed with the second coming (Advent) of Christ too, because of Adventist focus on the unconsciousness of the dead. It is sorta different from other Christian eschatology. The dead are just sleeping or in limbo. That means when Jesus comes back to earth, all of the dead will be resurrected and sorted into righteous and unrighteous in two phases.
Pretty sure that's why all the Reams emphasis on "mineralization" and "high energy reserve", perfect numbers etc …. eventually all people who ever lived are going to rise physically from the dead to be sorted into good and bad by Jesus.
If you die before he returns to earth, you want to make sure your energy reserve is high as possible upon death so that you're easy to reconstitute and jumpstart. If you're still alive when he comes back, you will want to be ready for the trip to Heaven. I am guessing it would be pretty physically taxing to get there, you probably need high energy reserve for the flight.
The righteous go first, hang out in heaven for 1000 years with Jesus, watch the wicked (unperfect numbers) left down on earth. There's not really a Hell in Adventist thought, unlike all other Christians, that's probably why Reams won't mention it in his writing.
Only the good guys (highly "mineralized" Adventist followers with lots of energy reserves I guess) get immortality. There's no Hell or eternal torture for the unrighteous since they don't get immortal souls.
At the end of the millenium, Jesus comes back again with righteous people in tow, raises the dead wicked, and then the bad people all get grouped around New Jerusalem with Satan and his dark angels. God and or Jesus blasts them all into annhilation in a lake of fire. After that, God makes a new world for the redeemed for an eternal life free of sin and suffering.
The Adventist church was founded on visions from a 1800s prophet lady named Ellen G White. She had fits and heard voices of God, spirits and angels. Many other Christian groups saw Adventists as a Ellen White cult with very incorrect readings of the Bible. None of Ellen's prophecies came true, but different groups within Adventists still quarrel over her writing. Just like RBTI people are doing here over Reams.
@Jacqueline and William, speaking as a former seminary student …. watching your interactions with Anonymous and others on this board, you remind me of the story of Ananias and Sapphira.
I'm not making the connection to Ananias and Sapphira… are they lying or with-holding information? Explain the analogy, please?
Mordecai, very insightful! I definitely noticed the 7 days to pork redemption thing, but not the others.
"Jacqueline and William, speaking as a former seminary student …. watching your interactions with Anonymous and others on this board, you remind me of the story of Ananias and Sapphira."
LOL!
OT- early Christian communist life is so interesting!
Very interesting about Reams being Seventh Day Adventist- is this true? That would certainly make sense to me.
I know that SDAs are a bit obsessed with their ideal diet.
The Mexican restaurant in my home town is run by SDAs- his practices are a bit wacky though (the guy uses olive oil in his deep frier for Christ's sake!!)
Thanks!
-Andrew
Death cult zombie showdown in New Jerusalem? That's what this is all about?? OMG. o.o
I wonderif the holy health warriors brixometers turn into lightsabers or something.
Andrew, why are you LOLing? I'm serious that I'm not getting it, and I'm feeling stupid. I WANT to get it – somebody please explain.
Lorelei, I thought the analogy was this: Jacqueline and William love rbti, and Challen, but rather than join the commune completely, they keep a fragment of their independence and must be punished.
I'm probably wrong though, considering I'm not much of a Biblical scholar.
thanks,
-Andrew
Sorry, I LOLd before I saw your question. I would like to see what Mordiaci thinks about my interpretation of his analogy. Hope I could help a bit.
-Andrew
***Mordecai
Your interpretation is making me satisfied enough to be able to go with my day!
I'm also laughing about the zombie showdown with Brix sabers. Funny image.
Awesome! And me too! LOL- that was a good one (too bad he's anonymous so we cant give him any credit)
Brix sabers! lmao!
Wow! Glad I went back to reading these comments, it made my day!
@Lorelei aka Hawaiigirl
I value your opinion and sensitive posts and I'm glad to see you've evolved on some questions.
A week or so ago while I was respectfully suggesting that Reams being a devot Christian it could have impacted his findings and way to analyze the results; you then went on me pretty harshly as in your views I was "bashing all Christians".
Today I read such things in your comment on Reams:
"The guy could be a total kook and still have somehow found an equation for health. In fact, you have to be kooky to come up with something so way outside the box."
Not as respectful as the way I initially put it but glad to see we think alike after all :-)
Allright question for you guys. Considering that:
-I am gay and comfortable with it
-Fairly promiscuous
-Left handed
-Psychic, tarot reader and Feng Shui consultant
-A pagan
-I eat pork regularly and cook with lard
-Do not want to touch even in picture corn oil or soy
Is there even a POINT for me to try RBTI?
LOL
yea Reams was a 7 day adventist. google it.
http://www.brixman.com/REAMS/history_copy%281%29.htm
Otherwise, more on topic, I find the statements of the FB group pretty scary.
So to summarize Challens views:
-soy is not a problem (despite one century of studies on mammals proving the contrary)
-eating sprayed food is better than organic (pretty bold statement – wouldn't be wiser to taste different sources, and compare large scale organic, bio-dynamic, hig-brix non-sprayed food etc?)
-corn oil is fine
-butter is evil
-most of heavily processed food is fine
We kind of knew Challens views on all of this but seing it in an ordered list make it sounds like sheer lunacy to be honest.
I understand as usual we have to sing the Gospel – Challens has seen it, it's all in the numbers. Right. Got to believe one man who doesn't publish his study protocol.
What I REALLY'd like Challens, Jacqueline of any serious RBTI followers to explain to me is the following paradox:
-RBTI is all about high mineral density
-As such it recommends commercially sprayed veggies vs organic, supposively less mineral dense
-Then why following the same logic does RBTI recommend to drop mineral rich food like sea salt, sourdough bread, and emphasize depleted food made of white flour – degree zero of mineral density?!
[
You can't see "eat conventional veggies, they have more mineral" along with "drop sea salt, sourdough" and "eat white flour"; it just a sheer contradition in logic and that baffles me.
I'm afraid the answer will be "it's all in the numbers". Not satysfing to me. Less and less impressed by the way RBTI "works" to be honest.
Lauren, No; I'm afraid your going straight to hell- IMO the left handedness is probably the straw that broke the camel's back! LOL! (jk-obviously)
"-RBTI is all about high mineral density
-As such it recommends[…]"
I thought the same thing when I heard the chocolate and shellfish prohibition! Chocolate and shellfish are loaded with minerals!
I've come to the conclusion that Reams was obsessed with having complete control over a person's mineral intake. Why else would he push distilled water, weird construction material supplements and prohibit many natural mineral sources, like shellfish, chocolate, sea salt, well water etc.
This is very interesting!
thanks for your input,
-Andrew
Hey, guys :) Those questions have been answered to death both here and on the fb page.
It has to do with how damaging a substance is, not just the minerals it contains. For instance, they say that the problem with chocolate is how acidic it is. Supposedly, it does kidney damage.
Sea salt is considered poisonous because there are "7 kinds of salt" in it that are detrimental to the body.
I could go on and on, but firstly, I am no expert – I am not following RBTI. Secondly, I think that unless you are really just trying to be argumentative then you get my point. Thirdly, like I said before, it's all over the freaking place, so you have access to it.
BTW, I'm not even convinced that this is true, so don't bother jumping on me about it. I'm just the messenger :)
Countdown to scientific-sounding rationilisation to Laurent from Jaquelin/William or whoever in 3. 2. 1. …
These are all Just So Stories from Rudyard Kipling. Jeez.
Just because you can contort some terms about digestion, PH, liver and energy into a story that ""makes sense"" to an audience does NOT mean any of it is true or accurate
If you have no intention of believing the answers, why ask the questions? There's plenty of "solid science" out there to back up what the medical profession is doing. Go drink their kool aid.
Thanks, Anon. I'll have to look at the fb discussions this afternoon. Can I access it w/o being a fb member (sorry if that's a dumb question)?
I know your not into rbti personally, but can you or anyone here tell me, if these "acidic" foods, like chocolate or pork, are less of an issue when combined with an alkaline? If not I want to know why?
-Andrew
Nope, ya gotta have a fb account.
As for blending stuff to take the edge off??? Again, not an expert, but I know they would say that pork is always a no food. It doesn't matter what you eat with it, it does damage. I think they would liken it to drinking drain cleaner. You can pop a couple of antacids, eat some veggies along with it, or drink a big glass of water to dilute it, but poison is poison. You are still ingesting it.
Just a guess.
Another option for info is tranlifelab dot com. She's doing the program and writing what she's learning. Others post comments that shed a little light also.
About the Ananias and Sapphira story. I don't get it. I spend thousands of dollars on the technology behind the website and the program RBTI-log, along with hundreds of hours, without any profit model. I have tried to work with just about everyone I could think of in RBTI. about a dozen said they would make a contribution, only one came through. I never asked money for my advice, and try to teach people how our body works.
For those who are not raised as Christians: the story of Ananias and Sapphira is about two persons who try to hide some of their sales from God, and were punished with death. How do you compare this to me?
Now as some may know, I always love to discus biblical issues. Especially if true believers can memorize the entire bible, but have never questioned why there are only four gospels in it, and why it took hundreds of years before the last one was added to it. And for the record: yes, I am a Believer. But Dr. Reams and many others have taught to go by the numbers. Stick to the facts.
If you can live with the explanation that we should not eat (most of) the no-no's because it is in the bible (Leviticus 11); good for you.
But Dr. Reams did 'proof' the foods, and added a few more that were not available at the time Leviticus was written. Now hopefully I will not go straight to hell if I would get back on the subject.
@AndrewH
Minerals is the key according to RBTI. That is why high brix vegetables with pesticides can be healthier as low brix vegetables without.
The body uses the minerals to balance the pH, and a lot more, but let's focus on the pH's. Taking in the right minerals will give the body a mineral reserve that it can work with later, in case of an imbalance.
Baking soda will alter the pH, but does not add to the mineral reserve.
The energy from pork is released too fast for us humans to handle. The only way the body can prevent damage is by getting minerals from the reserve. When that happens, the UpH will usually drop if the reserve is small. It is not the pH of the pork that causes it, but the speed in which the 'fuel' we get from the pork needs to be bonded in our body. Taking baking soda to compensate that will hide it a bit, but will not do much good.
If one has a high reserve energy / mineral reserve, not even Challen will be able to tell if a person had pork.
Yeah Anon! Let those unthinking science-trusters rot for asking questions. Screw all those evil medical professionals! All those evil organ transplants. And removed tumors. And blood transfusions. And eradication of some major diseases that most of our parents would have died from otherwise. It's all their fault that I don't have to worry about getting smallpox or polio! Those corporate jerks, backed by evil, cold, heartless scientists who care nothing for humanity or understanding how the world works! Not a single one!!! How dare they tell me to drink the kool-aid and accept on faith that things work without evidence! It's not like they have any data that I can review beforehand to decide if they're full of shit, or success outside of moony eyed personal salvation stories. How dare they do stuff like say "This hypothesis could be wrong" ALL THE TIME, or give me risk projections, or admit human and research error!!
In fact, while I'm at it… screw that science crap. What has it ever done for me? It's not like I can fly to London in the equivalent of a giant tin can hurtling through space. Don't talk to me about that friend who's lived with AIDS for five years, it's a total fluke that she made it past six months. Orbit calculations and GPS on cellphones? Men on the moon? Microscopes? Cameras? Carbon dating? Insulin? Saline? Tracheotomies? Hubble telescope? Uncle's titanium hip? The fact that my house doesn't randomly cave in on my head during an earthquake? Yeah, screw science and measurement of the real world. Work of the devil. The scientific method amounts to JACK. Shouldn't have interest or hope in anything they've got to say.
**
Dear Kool aid: Sound science is why you can snark about how science can't be trusted …….. on the internet.
Joining the fb group is a good idea.
You can watch food obsession mixed with Bible moralizing in realtime.
It is pretty scary and sad.
If you friend people from there, most of the most active people are members of reeeally creepy churches or fringe culty groups. I'm talking Megachurches, underground conversion schemes, teach Adam & Eve as biology in schools, "fix" gay ppl through prayer & rehab camps, Christian's are destined to run American government and the world type of stuff. And doomsday stuff about hurricanes and earthquakes.
It is kind-a telling.
Bill Nye, I really don't believe you are the real thing because I just can't believe Bill would carry on like that. Not the Bill I know from tv anyway ;)
Wow. Talk about taking my comments waaaaaay the hell out of proportion. I am very, very much questioning RBTI. Did I mention that I'm not doing it? I am not knocking what sound science has given us. But please remember that for all of their "sound science" their perscription medications and doctor error still kill and maim thousands every year. Research their treatments yourself??? If you attended a university and helped with any of those studies, you would be aware how the studies are sold to the highest bidder, and statistics "massaged" (that is the scientific term for it) to fit the needs of the buyer. My friend (who happens to be a doctor) has told me repeatedly to follow the money in any given study to get a clue as to just how reliable the results are.
Your comment does assure me, however, that you are determined to just argue. Anyone who would take my comment to the most ridiculous possible straw man is only looking to fight. You know perfectly well that my comment was not meant to discredit all science, yet took the time to write that diatribe as if I am the one you are making look silly. Whatever.
My point is that there is no way to convice you the RBTI is a good option because you have already decided that none of their information is trustworthy. Okay. So ignore it. Why waste your time arguing with people on the internet? How does it help? You already know that there is nothing more than anecdotal evidence to be had here. Why demand what RBTI practitioners are unable to provide at this time?
… and Erika/Moi/etc just censored Brock and removed locked him from the FB RBTI group for asking questions.
Yup, no culty groupthink 'round those parts. Sheesh.
How dare anyone question Erika/Moi/Original/RealRBTI? How dare they??!! lol
Kool Aid.
No arguing here. I was mocking you. Silly defensive comments sometimes call for it. :)
"The energy from pork is released too fast for us humans to handle."
This is a blatant lie, pork takes about 4 times longer to digest (or release "energy") than chicken, or an egg. In fact, pork is one of the meats that takes the longest for a human to process.
"I think they would liken it [consuming pork] to drinking drain cleaner."
That is totally insane and irrational.
-Andrew
So, back to the blog at hand…
I wonder what Matt's final analysis will be. It sounds like he's done with this experiment. I can see why he's been hesitant to share his findings. We (me included) have jumped all over anybody who has any experience with this.
Thanks to Erika for bringing it to his attention. And Pippa. I may not get it or believe it, but it's sure been interesting!
If anybody is not too scared to share, can you please update on your RBTI progress?
Ok, sorry about my tone in the last post. I totally want people to feel free to comment and share experiences! I'm only trying to educate myself here.
http://tranlifelab.com/ is a great source of info!
Does anyone know about the 7 deadly salts in sea salt? Are there actually different salts present in "sea salt" other than sodium chloride?
Thanks everyone,
-Andrew
I think one reason Erika and others keep saying you just have to try it is because the theory is totally BS (and by that I mean bat doo doo). Even Matt said to not read anything about it because you would run screaming the other way. I just got bored by the lack of Matt's input and went and read a bunch of Ream's work. I forgot I wasn't supposed to read it, and I ran screaming the other way… See for yourself, go read how Reams describes anions and cations. I mean, wait, don't!!!!!!
And yet, if Matt, who is well versed in science, can find value in this despite the lunatic science, then there must be something to it.
I think Erika's mistake has been trying to answer our questions by parroting Reams/Waychoff's theories on RBTI to a bunch of science nerds, when she admittedly has no science background herself. She has no way defend it, and doesn't even realize there is NO WAY to defend these theories. So we have to rely on the old "you can see it in the numbers" answer. Which, if Matt is to be believed, is true. It just doesn't answer our questions.
So, as to salt and all the other science questions – there doesn't seem to be a way to explain it. You really do have to take it all on faith. Not because the answers are found in faith, but because we have no way of explaining why the heck RBTI works according to real science. Doesn't mean RBTI is a scam. Just that we can't explain it yet. Once upon a time they couldn't explain volcanoes. And yet volcanoes are still there.
Which is why I'm waiting with baited breath for Matt's input. I'm hoping his close-up experience combined with his keen mind can make those of us who know what cations and anions and ions really are understand.
I'm also hoping he'll give us his long-term prognoses of RBTI. It sure seems to be working miracles in the short term, but then so does almost every new diet. It's how it pans out over the years that is the question.
HURRY BACK MATT before we all go crazy and chew our legs off.
So I just read that the rbti chocolate ban is due to the tannic acid content. Interesting…
here's some info on tannins: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/9759559
and a list of tannin containing foods:
http://www.widomaker.com/~jnavia/tannins/tannlist.htm
"I think Erika's mistake has been trying to answer our questions by parroting Reams/Waychoff's theories on RBTI to a bunch of science nerds"
You hit the nail on the head with this one! lol!
"HURRY BACK MATT before we all go crazy and chew our legs off."
I've been thinking the same thing; Look what has happened here since he took a vacation! It's like Sodom and Gomorrah up in this place! lol :)
Btw, that bacon, pancake w/ chocolate chips, maple syrup, and butter idea almost sounds acceptable… I may have to try it. But my first instinct is to keep the bacon on the side- where it belongs… sorry, off topic.
I started an Fb group for people who want to discuss RBTI without Erika/Moi/RealRBTI/OriginalRBTI/Anon's editorial oversight. All are welcome to join. Science is encouraged.
http://www.facebook.com/groups/234716049907553/
Well, if Brock uses facebook, I guess I'll have to get back online…
Anonymous. It;s not like people are eating those foods all the time. Get real and report the full story.
William. I believe Erika has good reason to be wary of other RBTI consultants as the person who she worked with prior to Challen had her on too much water and she was blacking out all the time. Only Challen was able to fix that. Also many people who were working with that person ( I'm sure you know who I'm talking about) have had major health improvements since going over to work with Challen including myself. Also that same person charged a lot more for consulting with him and I could hardly get him on the phone especially early on when my sugars were crashing all over the place. And I needed support. I have to say that although I don't always agree with Challen and his line of thinking he has helped me immensely. He rarely takes things personally. I have not ever seen him attack one of his clients unlike the consultant who had erika on too much water. So personally for me I would like to work with a consultant who is living the results of what he does and challen does embody that even if he thinks he is the best consultant in the world. At present he is the best consultant in my world and I am honored to have found him. Thanks Erika !
Now I also understand how the consultant erika worked with before is trying to help people the best way he knows how but that doesn't mean I am going to support him and recommend him or others who have been trained by him
Plus I want to give kudo's where they are due. This blog would not even be having this debate if it hadn't been for Erika who introduced me and Matt to it.
So let's all grow up and be adults. Stop attacking each other and have a real debate about what works and what doesn't work. Isn't that what we are here for. Aren't we here to discover and help each other to improve our health?
Pip
p.s I have no science background but you really do have to see it in the numbers to believe it. Hence the science part of this debate can be taken wherever you guys might want to take it. I'm happy to share my experiences if anyone wants to ask questions. I thought this was wacky shit when I first heard about it especially the christian side of it, but I was desperate and the mineral explanation made sense to me so I tried it. And I am seriously fucking happy I did. because I didn't have a life to speak of 9 months ago and I'm even happy to have consulted with my first consultant because he gave me that sense of hope that things could get better. Working with Challen was the turning point and he never got too into the science with me and he didn't need to. He didn't need to explain anions and cations to me, He just told me what to do in order to get better and I did that even though I was scared by eating sugar again, I was scared to go out and eat that first Marie Calenders pot pie. I was scared to eat ice cream but I did it anyway.
Slowly increasing things as I saw they worked.
I started to feel better. I started to have more energy. I started to not cry so often, I stopped having panic attacks, I lost weight, I stopped having the almost daily onslaught of negative thoughts about myself . I stopped being paranoid and hiding away in my house. I started to learn how to read the numbers
And I got to meet Carolyn who works with Challen and see how she works 12 hours a day to get all those kits out to people and wants to help more people so she works til midnight every night.
I was lucky enough to go and spend a month with Challen and see how he does it. How he can turn around some serious health problems.
Now I know Challen isn't Carey Reams and he doesn't pretend to be. He knows his limitations but he can read the numbers and see the patterns unlike most of the other RBTI consultants out there.
I've spoken to many of them. Some are pretty grounded and even have a wonderful understanding of the science behind it and can get really into the the scientific stuff but they don't see the patterns in the numbers and thats really what counts here.
On another note I don't always agree with Challens advice. I took him off the god pedestal I had him on. He isn't god but he does a great job of making this program easy so your body can heal.
OK thats enough from me I believe
Pip
Pippa. Grow up and have a real debate? Help each other get healthy? All good things. But are you really lecturing at people about open debate a couple hours after applauding Erika's facebook North Korea move with Brock? Lol.
We get it. You and Erika and are besties. She knows about these comment threads, and yet stays silent now while she posts nonstop all day over on Fb. So I guess its about helping other people get healthy as long as they ask questions that are liked? Or easy to answer?
"the science part of this debate can be taken wherever you guys might want to take it."
I was under the impression that the science part of "the debate" was over a long time ago. The main reason I continue to ask questions about the specifics of the program is to try and separate the wheat from the chaff, within the program.
It is truly amazing that you have experienced such positive effects; this makes me all the more interested in which practices are reasonable and providing the benefits (or wtf is happening!).
"Some are pretty grounded and even have a wonderful understanding of the science behind it and can get really into the the scientific stuff"
Could you link me someone like this? Is their interpretation of the science any closer to reality than Reams' or Challen's?
Thanks,
-Andrew
Pippa, if you don't mind me asking, what was your diet like before RBTI? I know from experience that there's nothing like eating sugar, starch, chicken pot pie (albeit, I like mine with butter and coconut oil) and ice cream and just feeling great about it- no guilt, just pure pleasure. Joking with friends or watching a comedy while doing this makes it even more soul stimulating.
Matt Stone helped me realize the power in just enjoying the shit out of every meal. It has many positive health effects. :)
I'm just curious, thanks for all the input!
Sincerely,
-Andrew
@ William:
What in the numbers can you see if a person has a good mineral reserve?
It seems plausible to me that, like blood, urine and saliva should have an optimal pH range. Feck knows what the refractometer is actually measuring but if people are finding low readings correlate with hypoglycemic symptoms then it warrants some investigation. I'm waiting for my piss periscope (cheap off eBay) to arrive in the post for some further testing.
Ideally you'd stick some people in an isolated environment, on a controlled diet and track changes in their numbers on addition of 'no-no' foods, lemon juice, the mineral supplements etc. Take samples of their urine and saliva and analyse them to find out what exactly is causing change in pH/conductivity/index of refraction. Work stuff out from there. Then at least you wouldn't have to rely on anecdotes and could step out of the RBTI shadow and scrap the ionic theory and religious undertones.
For me, the numbers probably hold some value, but not for the same reasons as RBTI practitioners and its fervent followers.
Famette,
You might want to get your facts right before you make statements. I was joking with Erika when I made that comment and made my true feelings about it known to her privately. Hence my comment straight after which said Does that include me ? MEANING Will you kick me off too?
You may want to ask before you take a comment out of context!!!
That's called growing up and being a adult and not jumping to a conclusion!
There are some rather nasty lies and stories that people love to make up that don't have anything better to do with their time.
And yes Erika is one of my best friends. She is a rather sweet innocent girl who just wants to help people and make sure that people are doing it right. Not trying to do a program they have no clue about. She can be rather gung ho in her approach but she is human and doesn't deserve a battering from everyone. If you don't like what's being written over there on the RBTI group stop reading it. It's that simple !
Pip
Andrew H.
I believe Beddoes wrote a more scientific book but I haven't read it but you might want to check it out.
I was eating the Gaps diet when I found RBTI but I had also done Ray Peats program before that. That included eating ice cream, Potatoes and lots of fruit but it just gave me migraines. In fact I never had migraines before I did that. Also I had tried HED , Well in fact I had tried everything including consulting with naturopaths and other digestive specialists and adrenal fatigue specialists. None of them worked. Believe me when I say it's wonderful to enjoy my food but it's even better to be getting healthy in the process. I have known Matt for the past 5 years and he tried guiding me but i just didn't respond to anything, not in the long term. I might get better for a week or two or even a month but then I would start feeling crappy again or another symptom would pop up. I'm glad matty boy has helped you in your freedom from food . He's very good like that
@ Lee
Primarily the pH’s. A person with a good mineral reserve will have less ?wobbles?, or fluctuations during the day or week, and also if one of the no-no’s is eaten.
@AndrewH
About the pork thing: Please do note that pork is believed to causes a fast release in energy, like rocketfuel as Dr. Reams compared it with.
I believe your sources are about how long the matter stays in the body. Pork is the food that stays about the longest in the stomach. Vegetables pass in 30-40 minutes, beef in 3 to 4 hours, pork in 4.5 to 5 hours. I was not mentioning how long it would take for the energy to be released, but only that Reams did teach the release itself is too fast.
To quote one MD that also goes in to religion a bit much:
?In World War II, soldiers in North Africa were taken ill in ever increasing numbers. They were suffering from abscesses of the lower part of the leg called "tropical ulcers". These ulcerations left the soldiers unfit to fight and necessitated lengthy hospital confinement, often requiring their removal to more temperate climates. Every possible form of treatment as well as chemical therapy was exhausted without positive results. It was then suggested that these leg ulcers could possibly be connected with the soldiers' eating habits, as the natives showed no signs of this disease. Rations to the soldiers were then based on a diet free from pork, much like that eaten by the Islamic population. This resulted in the immediate relief of the leg ulcer syndrome.
Not a person here can explain every question that has been raised. Some have considered the skeptics disbelievers, or the ones with questions as impolite. People, please do question. By questioning you will know the quality of the consultant and if he / she fits your needs.
With that said, I must also state that doing a controlled experiment like Simon suggests would help tremendously. But even then the results would be doubted. The chemical analysis of the urine would be too expensive and as discussed earlier here in this blog, even knowing the sugar content of urine is very much open for debate by the MD’s. Nasa seems to claim it is in there, MD’s claim that in a healthy human it should not be there. Look at the postings, real proof is lacking. It should not take a rocket scientist to figure out if there is or there isn’t.
As for chances of a real controlled experiment: slim, really slim. The money is simply not there.
Since more persons referred to Dr. Beddoe's book:
http://www.advancedideals.org/015_book_information.html#Anchor-IN-49575
Andrew, I wanted to add that another reason it's impossible to explain the science of RBTI is because Reams completely changed the meaning of all the science-y words he used.
So, for example, in his version of science, potassium is an anion – because it fits his definition of anion – although every person who has ever studied chemistry, including my nine year old, can tell you that by normal definition, potassium in a cation.
How can two people with completely different definitions of the same words even have a conversation??
I think this carries over to Waychoff too, since Matt has pointed out some of his meanings, like that for vegan, are different than ours. Makes for lots of misunderstandings.
Hey everyone. FWIW, Erika apologized to me privately and I'm back in her RBTI group on Fb. However I have started my own RBTI group that Matt and I are co-admins for called RBTI & Related Sundries. We have only about 1/3 the membership of Erika/Pip's group, but all are welcome. Our group's focus is on the inquiry into the how's and why's of RBTI and also as a first point of introduction for people looking to learn about RBTI for the first time. Erika/Pip's group will be more of a support group for people who are actively doing RBTI I think.
Anywho, here's the link to my group-
http ://www.facebook. com/groups/234716049907553/
Just remove the two spaces.
How do you sign up for notifiers when someone replies with your name here? Is there a @ system like Twitter?
@AndrewH, nope, incorrect. Not what I meant at all.
@Hawaiigirl, sorry, didn't mean to confuse. I should have been more expressive.
Of course Scripture can be read in many different ways according to some. The way I came to understand Ananias and Sapphira is that it is a lesson about the omission of information and motive, rather than outright lying.
It teaches us the importance of transparency in all things. As a sign of respect.
I will not quote it here, since there seems to be some issues of religious intolerance.
@William, of course I didn't mean the story literally. You have said many times that you sacrifice much for spreading the work of Dr. Reams. To the point of boasting perhaps. As you have said you hope to be the one man to bring all these quarrelers together in agreement, and you see them all as doing wrong? Every way of a man is right in his own eyes.
You have also insulted Dr. Waychoff in your way.
Of course the gain you may seek to derive from this work is not money. It is people. You would like others to join you in your vision. Your glory offered up is not gold, but minds convinced and people brought to RBTI.
This is good evangelicalism. It is good missionary work. Yet you are holding this back… this small but very important part, the part that makes the difference between full truth and dishonesty by omission. This is what I meant by the story of Ananias and Sapphira. As you know they say, whoever is dishonest with very little may also be dishonest with much.
I have noticed you and others sidestep when asked about the deeper rules. That small piece of wealth held back.
Do you truly speak of the body for the sake of the health of the body alone?
I believe if a man is being led to God and a greater purpose by another man's works, he deserves to know before he takes our hand. Not blindfolded by science or numbers or food.
Tucking away the big truth behind the small answers cheapens everything righteous. That's all, and I hope I've explained this better.
Oh and PS I meant blindfold because that's what it seems like to me, I don't understand any of the science or details. Other types of books are more my forte. :)
To anyone else reading, I do not have any of Dr. Reams books but I would like to go over them. I was told by my homeschooling friend I would be interested by the Biblical cosmology numerology aspect here, and I very much am.
If anyone would like to share any of the numbers from Reams work to see if they have more Biblical origins, feel free and email them me:
mdalton at gmx dot com
@Mordecai.
Thank you for telling what you mean.
And you may be right in a way. Like Dr. Reams said, RBTI and religion go hand in hand. Every RBTI book you get is more about religion as about science. And there is a huge bond between body and mind/spirit.
Yes, I do come short when it is about spreading the word of God and using RBTI as a carrier. I will question why, when Leviticus clearly states we should not eat pork.
And maybe I did step aside when the discussion went about the deeper (biblical) rules. Every effect has a cause. Part of that cause is that many of the Christian I have met have trouble with the primary rules of the Bible. Many can quote whole pages but do not understand the meaning. Many don’t have a clue what is changed in the Bible, why there are only 4 gospels. Why everyone who had one of the others was killed by the ones who composed the different books to what is the Bible. Maybe it had its reason, maybe it was for the better, I will not judge.
I have been to India and had some insights in Hinduism, Islam in Egypt, Buddhism closer to home and have been a Christian all my live. In all religion that I have insight in there is one thing really important: Respect. Your path in live has seems to have been much different as mine. Your knowledge about the current form of the Bible will likely be greater as mine. My study has more been to the meaning and how and why certain books were included or excluded. About why most of the gospels were excluded and what was according to those the message of Jesus is, the one that is hard to find in the Bible (but is there!).
Your way may or may not be better as mine. This is the path that has been laid out for me. I believe that when people do understand how our body truly works, they will question if our existence is just the side effect of a big bang where nothing became everything. If they don’t, maybe it will come later. It is not may place to force anything on anyone. It is my place to show respect no matter what gender, race or religion. I will try to show as much respect as I can and judge as less as I can. Maybe that makes me a lesser person, maybe it will cause some to judge me. I will await the real judgment.
My apologies to everyone who believes I insulted Challen.
@William, I believe your path and mine may have been more similar than different. I too have spent time in India and Asia, and studied much in comparative religions. I said I was a former seminary student. It is in fact the same things you bring up that caused me to discontinue the seminary. I realized I would not be able to answer questions for others if I could not answer them myself, and placing myself as an authority would be proud folly. My path is certainly not any better than yours. :)
Of course I do not judge, only witness. I am very in line with your thoughts on respect.
I am curious. You mentioned that PHi(?) and other numbers are controlled by the brain. Is this some kind of chemical thing or is it actual thoughts?
For an example. Do types of thoughts deemed biblically immoral cause the numbers to go away from "perfect"? You know the thoughts I mean I hope.
Also, do any of the following cause the numbers to change in a bad way:
-Sex with someone other than your spouse
-Sex before marriage
-Sex using non-drug birth control (condoms free of pork products, diaphrams and so on)
-Sex with multiple partners, as in casual dating, even if it is done safely and all are healthy
-Oral sex, male or female
-Masturbation, male or female
-Certain sexual positions
-Homosexuality or bisexuality
-Having sex or kissing a person who eats pork or the forbidden foods
-Having sex while a woman is on her cycle
-Looking at sexually arousing images
Since you are someone who seems to have the best general amount of information, do any of these things happen to move the numbers away from perfect?
Mordecai, thanks! My interpretation certainly reflects my lack of religious knowledge. For the record I'm very open to proselytizing that is as well written, and even tempered as what you have displayed! I'm glad I checked this comment section again!
thanks,
-Andrew