Okay fine. Sugar, the sweet, sweet truth.
I made a smoothie today: a really good one, in fact. ?Oh, a super-good one with wild organic low-sugar berries, organic grass-fed no-sweetener-added whey protein powder, and no-calorie Stevia drops?! Um, no. Gross. Do people actually eat stuff like that? I’m talking a real smoothie. I’m talking the kind of smoothie that would simultaneously put Dr. Robert Lustig (that dude over there)?and Gary Taubes into a diabetic coma just from hearing about it.
What was in it? Bananas: super ripe and sugary bananas. There were between 12-14 big ones in there. I tend to lose count as I’m more focused on fitting as much as possible into the blender. I also dropped in a small glug of apple juice to get things moving, at least 3 heaping tablespoons of hyper-sugary coconut nectar to up the caloric-density (it’s just like any other sweetener, only fancy-schmancy and hippie-dippy.), and a good pinch of salt. Don’t underestimate that pinch of salt, either. It balances out the flavors really nicely, rehydrates your cells and balances your fluids after a sweaty workout, and helps side-step the post-smoothie freeze (chilly hands and feet, anyone?) that your usual health-fanatic’s kale juice and watermelon smoothie will do every time.
Now I know what you’re thinking: ?That’s a lot of sugar, bub. You must be 300 pounds or something! Well, it is a lot of sugar: you’ve got that right. It’s somewhere over 260 grams, to be exact, equaling out to about 65 cubes of straight sugar. Go ahead and picture that in your head. Maybe even make a mental sugar cube Sphinx sculpture or something cool like that.
But the crazy thing is, I’m not 300 pounds. I may not be gracing the next Abs Issue of Men’s Health anytime within the next few months, but I used to weigh well over 320 pounds and since have?just about halved my body weight eating fructose and sucrose-rich concoctions exactly like this.
?No, no, no! I’ve heard plenty of low-carb and anti-sugar advocates quoting studies done on rats where GMO high fructose corn syrup consisted of 60% of their total calories, and they concluded that sugar was real bad stuff! you say. Without getting into how ridiculous and downright silly it is to use data like this to recommend against consuming sugar, let’s just use some good ol? common sense and take a bit more critical look at how the sweet stuff affects our waistlines.
Alright, so I’ve lost 150 pounds of fat eating a high-sugar diet, mostly coming from the sugar in sweet fruit. But alone, that isn’t enough to conclude that sugar won’t make you fat. So let’s take a look at the typical ‘sugary? foods that most people agree will make you fat: donuts, cupcakes, and pastries. Sure, there’s a good amount of sugar in these foods. Your average little chocolate donut has around 11 grams. But what else are you getting along with that sugar? A big load of grease: namely, hydrogenated (trans fats), omega 6-laden vegetable oils like soy and corn. At least 50% of the total calories that make up a donut come from the stuff.
You don’t need to be a nutritional scientist to know that deep-frying a bunch of dough in grease probably isn’t going to be the best for you. All of those omega 6 fats that make up the veggie oil just end up slowing down your thyroid and causing all sorts of inflammation in your body and elevated cortisol levels, leading to some serious damage to your metabolism. Not good if you’re looking to lean up or avoid blowing out.
But hold on a second: what’s up with blaming the sugar you’re eating in that box of Krispy Kremes for making you fat, and totally disregarding all of that refined soybean oil you ate, too? Seems to me like it’s a matter of throwing the baby out with the bathwater, or the banana out with the peel, rather.
Granted, some forms of sugar are far healthier than others. It’s hard to beat the sweet stuff found in something like a perfectly ripe mango or a fresh-off-the-vine ooey-gooey date. But what about refined sweeteners, like the aforementioned coconut nectar, or maple and agave syrup, or blackstrap molasses? Or the even further refined sweeteners like straight-up white sugar?
Well, think about this for just a second: honestly, how many people do you know who became overweight from eating banana smoothies for breakfast, putting a bit of brown sugar and molasses on their oatmeal, or even some of the dreaded refined white stuff on top of their corn flakes? Jokes about what kind of white stuff Tony ?Scarface? Montana puts on his morning cereal aside, even the sweet white stuff most people put on their Cheerios isn’t inherently some sort of toxic, fattening substance.
I know, I know. I’m no biochemistry major and I certainly don’t claim to be. But this really isn’t that complex of a thing. Anyone who legitimately became overweight (not just gained a couple extra pounds) from eating foods with refined sugar in them hasn’t done so just from eating the sugar. There needed to be something else, like downing a load of vegetable oil with it and/or drinking 3 quarts of Coca-Cola or fruit punch per day.
Those 3 quarts of sugary liquid isn’t an exaggeration for some people either. Ever notice in any of those obesity documentaries or TV shows that the majority of severely obese people are drinking anywhere between 2-5 quarts of soda or juice per day, in addition to everything else they are eating? Considering that the quickest way to thrash your thyroid and dramatically slower your metabolism is to over-consume liquids from any source and diluting your cellular fluids, this is something that needs to be considered when it comes to weight gain or loss.
Now I’m not telling people to go and down as much refined sugar as possible, or to eat it straight out of the bag. Though I have known people who’ve done that before. It wasn’t entirely enjoyable for them after a while, but they definitely didn’t spontaneously succumb to Metabolic Syndrome X either.
I encourage you to at least consider it all, and maybe even do the experiment yourself. Observe what happens when you or people you know get most of the sugar in their diets from donuts and brownies, and then compare that to when you or other people get most of their sugar from fresh and dried fruit, molasses-drenched bowls of oatmeal, or even a fat stack of pancakes (made without the usual glug of oil) and maple syrup. Plus, I’ll make you a deal: if you go easy on the butter or nix it altogether, I’ll give you permission to use extra syrup! It’s totally worth the trade. Trust me.
Whether or not any of this convinced you one way or the other isn’t really my concern. Nor was my goal to woo you with all sorts of fancy statistics and biochemistry lingo. If you need that kinda stuff, go check out some Andrew Kim. I’m just encouraging you to think. Observe. Question what you’ve always been told. So what if Dr. Mercola told you that if you ate more than ten blueberries per week you’d balloon out and die of diabetes? That doesn’t mean you have to believe him. Or even believe me for that matter. Just do your own thinking.
So hopefully next time you’re asked the age-old question, ?Do you take sugar? One lump, or two?? you’ll know exactly what to tell them.
Chris Randall?is the co-author of The Vegan Solution and a popular youtube vlogger. Chris?now offers weight loss consultations’through the 180D Get Help Program. Click HERE for details.
First?
Easy on the butter? Are you mad? Or … vegan?
I have seen personal proof that butter made me leaner. Normal quantities, not cupfuls or anything.
The only time butter made me leaner was when I restricted carbs and ate like 2 or more sticks per day. But using the same argument as Chris does, one shouldn’t equate butter with hydrogenated soybean oil.
But you’re probably right that there is sort of a butter sweet spot, where if you don’t consume any, metabolism drops, and if you consume too much, it’s well, too much.
I leaned out when I added more fat, particularly from butter, rather than a pretty low-fat diet with only olive oil. All eaten to appetite, and not too much, as you point out. I just eat butter when I crave it now and probably average less than a TB per day, but I still think it’s a very good thing for me. No way would I cut it out.
My biggest criticism of low-fat diets is that they tend to make a regular, “normal” diet more fattening than it would otherwise be. Just like bouts of starving yourself or cutting carbs. It’s probably a better strategy for most to just condition themselves to eating the diet they want to eat, and realistically will be eating considering their social circumstances and food preferences.
“It’s probably a better strategy for most to just condition themselves to eating the diet they want to eat, and realistically will be eating considering their social circumstances and food preferences.”
Now that’s a simple, easy to understand and practical piece of advice. I like it! Perhaps best to go forward with that using a bit of caution. Especially if there are digestion or long term health problems. Maybe slowly introducing desired foods in small portions. I have read that many people are able to overcome lactose intolerances by slowly introducing dairy products into their diet.
I typically feel leaner the day after eating a pint of ice cream.
Hm…. due to Shadow, my Dalmatian being epileptic since last January I am doing a lot of research and wish not to eat at all anymore. I am a Raw Food Coach and have a writers block. I cannot even think about having a smoothie now and have not ordered any fruit at all with my organic box scheme. I am having a REAL tough time deciding WHAT to eat and having bean a vegetarian/vegan for almost 11 years now, I find myself in two minds. I do understand where the vegetarian ‘idea’ comes from and that we are plant eaters, but I also understand the ‘idea’ that we are meat eaters. SIGH!!! This is a real eye opener but to someone as stubborn as me, it is tough!!!
You don’t have to eat 4 pounds of meat a day. A little is still less than eating massive cheeseburgers for every meal. You should read the Vegan Solution by me and Chris.
Second! I’ve thought for ages that anyone who thinks fruit is bad for you is nuts. I would put juice in that category, too. It simply cannot be equated to soda.
Or third….
Why go easy on the butter? Nothing wrong with some quality butter any more than there is with real sugar…
Try the Irish stuff. It’s divine. I put the salted Kerrygold on some crusty bread from the bakery and eat it straight.
Yay butter. There is a domestic butter that is as good as Kerry Gold, if not better. It’s the Organic Valley grass fed butter. comes in 1/2 pounds wrapped in green foil. It’s hard not to eat a bunch of it straight while I’m cooking. Amazing flavor.
Totally eat slices of good butter occasionally just like cheese. Salted cultured butter tastes extra good straight!
I still think it just depends on the person. I do very well on bananas but not so well with stone fruits (they aggravate my cellulitis infection.) I do very well on berries but not so well with pomegranate (stupid cellulitis infection!). I do just fine on butter, olive oil, and coconut oil. Corn oil, soy oil, peanut, and canola oil fatten me. Why? I don’t know. It just works that way. Bagels and donuts fatten me. I can’t really bring myself to think its not a complete meal because there is a whole in the middle, but rather I tend to think its the dough conditioners. Why? Because I do just fine on home cooked bread made with water, yeast, salt, honey or sugar, and flour. I don’t do so well with rice, but I do just fine with wheat. But, so much as a hint of mold and my GI tract is tore up for 6 weeks. No reason, its just true. I guess that everybody is a little bit different and we just need to watch for what works best on an individual basis.
Alisha
I thilnk its fantastic that you have paid attention so closely that you know absolutely waht works for you and what doesn’t. Good for you. That inspired me to investigate me more.
Man, people always get Lustig’s message wrong. He says fruits and vegetables are good for you because they come with fiber and other molecules that aid in their digestion. He was something like… “When God made the poison he packaged it with the antidote.” He is only advocating against fructose that is added to things like soda, bread, cereal, and other man made foods, or foods like organge juice where the fiber has been removed. Talking about self-experimentation,I’ve personally all but cut out fructose in that form for a couple of months now and lost a few inches on my waist. I noticed that when I started playing weekly soccer again i had the unexpected result of gaining a few inches on my waist in a very short period of time. Then I stumbled upon Lustig’s video and realized that i had started downing gatorades after every game and it may have been the HFCS in the Gatorade that made me fatter. I don’t think we can argue with the science personally, because it is not the simple “cholestoral equals heart attack” or “carbs equals insulin equals fat” that is fed to the main stream. It’s actual complex biochemical processes that have been tracked and confirmed. But that is just my two cents.
@Kelly. The problem is Lustig has gotten fructose itself all wrong. Fructose is beneficial to a healthy metabolism, in fact there’s recent good evidence that it benefits a diabetic metabolism. Lustig tries to rescue his theory by saying fructose isn’t bad in fruits because it’s balanced by the good things in fruit. Well, sorry Lustig, but fructose is one of the good things in fruit.
I would say PUFAs, partially hydrogenated oils, and additives in bread and baked goods are the biggest problems. I have also seen a long list of benefits by adding several sugar sodas to my diet, including 5 or 6 pounds lost so far (and completely stable, even after eating a 15 oz frozen spinach & goat cheese pizza yesterday & 12 oz of Mexican Coke and a salad with dressing. Lustig is all wrong and he looks puffy and inflamed like Gary Taubes in recent videos. I would rather look like Ray Peat in my 80s, thank you very much. Low-carb and zero-carb isn’t going to do it. Danny Roddy lost 20 pounds going from zero-carb diet to drinking half a gallon of orange juice a day (along with other foods). He was puffy and flabby looking on the zero-carb (meat and water) diet. Michael Eades and Loren Cordain looked chubby in a beach picture Eades posted a few years ago. I doubt his condition has improved. Limiting carbs just messes up thyroid, glucose metabolism, inflammation, and CO2 levels. Drinking real SUGAR sodas & milk is better than eating pounds of red meat or pork or chicken, IMO.
Soda, bread, and cereal can help people to heal, but consider the ingredients. Is it made with natural cane/beet sugar or HFCS and artificial chemical sweeteners and brominated vegetable oils? Does the bread have bleached/enriched flour, PUFA oil, partially hydrogenated oil (trans fat), HFCS, dough conditioner, and other garbage? Or is it (preferably) unbleached unbromated unenriched flour with no oils, no HFCS, no dough conditioners, no high-gluten flour, and so forth? Does the cereal have real sugar or HFCs? Does it have vegetable oils? Does it have a long list of chemicals or just two or three ingredients (not counting added vitamins and minerals)? Lustig is not isolating his variables.
My health improved and so did Danny Roddy’s, Matt’s, and many others, by drinking lots of orange juice and several SUGAR sodas a day (I drink mostly Sierra Mist, with occasional Pepsi Throwback, Whole Foods Tonic Water, Mexican Coke, and Mexican Sprite). I tried some HFCS soda on an empty stomach as an experiment (Dr. Pepper) and got several zits the next day and felt different. I can drink sugar sodas with no problems, even on an empty stomach I get stable energy and am not hungry for 3-4 hours People who say sugar and HFCS are chemically the same are ignorant. FASEB study showed HFCS drinks have 4-5 times more calories than label say – in the form of oligosaccharides. Supposedly, these break down to glucose from what I’ve read. In other words, HFCS is not high fructose, but high-glucose and the massive calories may feed bacteria or make you fat or be excreted as diarrhea.
I’ve lost 5 or 6 pounds so far and the weight is steady, from drinking several SUGAR sodas a day. My previous diet was lots of milk, orange juice, ice cream, chocolate, butter cookies, and so forth, so you can’t explain it away by saying I am eating less sugar or something. I also eat some starch, meat, eggs, cheese, and other high-cal foods. I do think sugars are better than starches, like Ray Peat and others who are inspired by his research. My legs and waist look slimmer and I have less acne or bug bites on my thighs (not sure what it is, but nothing got rid of it before). I also feel stronger and have higher and more stable energy with the SUGAR sodas.
You can get different kinds of Gatorade without HFCS. I have some, but haven’t yet tried it. Anyway, I disagree with Lustig and you about teh science, Kelly, and I think Ray Peat, Danny Roddy, Andrew Kim, Matt Stone, the Scientific Debate Forum, and others can provide better evidence than Lustig’s cherry-picked drivel.
Mercury said: “People who say sugar and HFCS are chemically the same are ignorant. FASEB study showed HFCS drinks have 4-5 times more calories than label say ? in the form of oligosaccharides. Supposedly, these break down to glucose from what I’ve read.”
Stop for a second and think about what you are claiming. Do you really believe that a 12 oz. soda with HFCS has 600-750 calories? And a single Big Gulp has around 3,000 calories? That defies common sense. Prepare yourself a 3,000 calorie dextrose solution (pure glucose), or even a solution with 750 calories. If you manage to drink the whole thing, you will notice very quickly that your claim about the carbohydrate content of HFCS isn’t credible.
HFCS- and sucrose-sweetened drinks are nearly indistinguishable from a caloric standpoint, and in my opinion the only reason to prefer the latter is personal taste, about which there’s no point arguing.
David: Please read this. “You are entitled to your own opinions, but not your own facts.” I didn’t say HFCS had actual glucose. The studies found there are oligosaccharides that are not fully hydrolyzed. When they hydrolyze fully, it has 4-5 times more calories than the labels say. I am not saying everybody is going to digest those. They may feed good or bad bacteria or they may be eliminated or they may help you because of having more calories. I find the HFCS soda (like Dr. Pepper and Schweppes tonic water) tastes more watery and causes me to get whiteheads the next day. This pattern has happened a couple times, even though I had no fear and felt pretty good otherwise. I’d rather just get sugar sodas, if they are available.
http://www.fasebj.org/cgi/content/meeting_abstract/24/1_MeetingAbstracts/562.1
Carbohydrate Analysis of High Fructose Corn Syrup (HFCS) Containing Commercial Beverages
Paulin Nadi Wahjudi1, Emmelyn Hsieh1, Mary E Patterson2, Catherine S Mao2 and WN Paul Lee1,2
1 Los Angeles Biomedical Research Institute, Torrance, CA
2 Pediatric, Harbor-UCLA Medical Center, Torrance, CA
ABSTRACT
The carbohydrate analysis of HFCS is based on methods which first hydrolyze the syrup into simple sugars before quantitative analysis. We have examined whether HFCS can be hydrolyzed under the same conditions suitable for hydrolyzing sucrose. A new GC/MS method for the quantitation of fructose and glucose as their methoxyamine derivatives and 13C labeled recovery standards was used to determine the carbohydrate content of HFCS in 10 commercial beverages. Samples were analyzed before and after acid hydrolysis. The carbohydrate contents in commercial beverages determined without acid hydrolysis were in agreement with the carbohydrate contents provided on the food labels. However, the carbohydrate contents of beverages determined after acid hydrolysis were substantially (4?5 fold) higher than the listed values of carbohydrates. As fructose and glucose in HFCS may exist as monosaccharides, disaccharides and/or oligosaccharides, analysis of the carbohydrate content of HFCS containing samples may yield widely different results depending on the degree of hydrolysis of the oligosaccharides. With inclusion of mild acid hydrolysis, all samples showed significantly higher fructose and glucose content than the listed values of carbohydrates on the nutrition labels. The underestimation of carbohydrate content in beverages may be a contributing factor in the development of obesity in children.
Mercury: I thought you were referring to that study, and I wish we had access to more than an abstract, because I’d like to see what they’re actually saying. I can guarantee it is not true that there are 5x as many carbs in HFCS as in sucrose. Even if these carbs were all bound up in oligosaccharides rather than free glucose, that is a RIDICULOUS amount. Your ass would explode from the fermentation if you ate hundreds of grams of non-digestible oligosaccharides. Try it with inulin and see what happens. If you were drinking that many carbs, in whatever form, you would notice immediately.
Not only that, but can you imagine how much a soda would weigh if there were that many carbs in it? That would be like 3 lbs. worth in a big gulp–without counting the water. The way you are interpreting this abstract is physically impossible. Despite your condescending quotation, I am not the one who is making up facts. I am merely providing context to show you that either 1) the study is incorrect or 2) you are misinterpreting it. The latter seems more likely.
Everything I’ve read about the HFCS in soft drinks says it is composed of about 55%free fructose, 42% free glucose, and 3% or so “other.” So there’s a little room for difference between HFCS and sucrose, but not anything like what you were claiming. As far as your personal experience, of course I won’t argue with that, but your break-outs aren’t happening because of such mega-loads of carbs.
I agree, that amount of calories is not possible.
It’s funny because I do much better with HFCS coke. Mexican coke tastes bad to me and doesn’t make me feel good the way HFCS coke does.
I prefer HFCS sodas too. Well, I should say that I prefer sprite to sierra mist natural.
HFCS sodas do make my ass explode. Cannot drink them without immediate consequences. Sugar sodas do not do same thing. Don’t know about calorie diffs. Digestibility diffs definitely!
Interesting. It doesn’t make sense to me, but I can’t argue with personal observation!
It’s very easy to get Lustig’s message wrong because I think that he is deliberately misleading. He talks about how the sugar in sugar cane is so hard to get at in one of his videos, while ignoring how easy it is to get at in other fruits, such as bananas.
Also Lustig’s science is dodgy to quote him, “fructose is alcohol without the high.” Basic organic chemistry fail right there. He also talks about how fructose damages the liver and makes many other claims that don’t stand up to scruntiny.
This post is very timely for me. I was spam-linked to this on another forum: http://www.abc.net.au/catalyst/stories/3821440.htm. I pointed out the flaws with the program and the pseudo science involved, but the response I got was, “makes more sense to me than anything I’ve heard in a while.” Facepalm.
Another spammer pointed out that fruit is not fructose and that fruit is ok, but the 30 pieces of fruit you would have as juice was not. To this I replied that anything in excess is a strain on the body and who would drink 4 liters of fruit juice in one sitting? Again, facepalm.
“I don’t think we can argue with the science.”
Wow. I mean, wow. Then how do you explain the 3 solid years we spent arguing about it in the comments on this blog? If it can’t be argued?
Okay I need to be a bit more specific about what I mean. I’m talking about his YouTube video Sugar: The Bitter Truth from around 57:00 to around 1:07:00. Lustig’s science is anytime he says “our studies show” or “we believe this.” I don’t give a damn about that science. It could be right, it could be wrong, I haven’t seen the studies and I wouldn’t consider myself qualified to criticize them anyway.
What I’m focused on is the actual biochemistry part that he walks us through. So, ignoring his opinions being input through out the section, the biochemistry looks to me like fructose that hits the liver gets turned mostly into fat, at least more so than glucose that hits the liver. There are also some parts about increasing blockers that lower blood pressure, which could be true but once again I don’t know if that is actually what the diagram depicts or if it’s just Lustig’s interpretation.
How we choose to interpret this process as being good or bad is up to scientists like you and Dr. Lustig.
Right, there are multiple interpretations. Firstly, not much fructose actually becomes fat. What does become fat becomes palmitic acid, a saturated fatty acid, which Peat argues helps to displace linoleic acid (PUFA). Also, it’s generally understood that the type of fat changes the outcome. For example, you can drink alcohol, but saturated fats protect against liver and can even reverse liver disease without removing the alcohol. So is it the fructose and alcohol that is the problem or the type of fat in the diet? I tend to think it’s the fat in the diet considering all the great outcomes of those eating sugar with saturated fats a la Peat/Roddy/Rubin/Kim etc. Personally I’ve experienced positive outcomes of eating sugar in one context and negative in another. That’s the argument Chris is trying to make. Is it really the sugar or is it something else in the diet and lifestyle that determines the outcome? His recommendation is free experimentation, and I would echo that.
Well Matt, thanks for the responses and everything but after reading all of this all I have to say is: I’M SO CONFUSED!!!!!
Alright you know what screw all you health people! I just went out and bought all the ingredients for the above described banana smoothie and I’m going to get to the bottom of this. I want to know if it’s really possible to cram 12 bananas into a blender. Mofo’s.
In my experiment I could only fit 8 bananas before I risked it spilling over… So I call bullshit. I am currently in the process of tasting the creation, and I am now half way done with the blender sized smoothie. My research strongly points in the direction that that is way too many fucking bananas.
I would assume, like every vegetarian on the face of the planet, that Chris has a Vitamix. And they can fit a lot of bananas. 12 easy.
Also Kelly, if you are not used to eating that much sugar or taking in that much liquid, or potassium for that matter, you might be in for a major headache.
I actually turned out feeling great. I had a super energy boost immediately after drinking it and my temperature rose from it’s usual 97.8ish to 99.7…
That’s what I’m talkin’ bout Kelly. The hottest I’ve gotten I think was on Fructose Friday eating as many dates as I could while drinking 2 quarts of grape juice all in 1 hour. Disgusting, and wouldn’t do it again, but getting a truly large quantity of sugar in the diet has very strong positive effects on many people.
Astute warning Matt. I tried this and my temp was thrashed down to 96.6 and I peed (a lot) clear about an hour later.
Full Disclosure: very low carb dieter over 2 years
And for whatever reason, the “science” in the field of nutrition is often dodgy. Every dietary philosophy can turn to dozens of studies to back up its ideas. When it comes to deciding what to eat, the only laboratory that really matters is your own body.
(With the caveat that there is broad scientific consensus on a few issues, like the toxicity of trans fats…)
Gatorade does not contain HFCS. Don’t you think it could have just been the exta calories??
Wanted to mention that as well. I go with Gatorade during basketball specifically because it’s dextrose and sucrose, rather than HFCS. I just prefer the taste.
And my experience is that liquid calories, like many liquids, are easy to over-consume. The extra calories, rather than HFCS specifically, might be at work.
Gatorade is also not very calorie-dense. Most fruit juices and soft drinks have nearly double the calories per ounce. Perhaps it was just weight regain. If people lose weight by restricting sugar, they usually end up gaining weight eating the exact same way and look for what changed (even though nothing did).
I sure am loving my ice cream, preferably Turkey Hill all-Natural, made from sugar, milk, cream, and whatever flavor (raspberry, cherry, vanilla, salted caramel). That seems to fit in here. I’ve gained a couple pounds, not much considering I’ve been eating almost every day for a few months now.
I’ve also been getting the Turkey Hill All-Natural, its ingredients are similar to Haagen Dazs, but not as rich and it costs about 1/4th to 1/3rd as much (I got it on sale). I’ve also been drinking several SUGAR sodas per day and lost 5 or 6 pounds in the last few weeks and stable. I have a long list of other benefits besides that – better skin, sleep, strength, mental clarity and focus, memory, distributed attention, less joint pain and writer’s cramp, better healing, less pain in general, etc.
First, stop hating on butter. We need healthy fats to operate, too.
Second, could you please elaborate on the section, “Considering that the quickest way to thrash your thyroid and dramatically slower your metabolism is to over-consume liquids from any source and diluting your cellular fluids, this is something that needs to be considered when it comes to weight gain or loss.”
I’m always intrigued by the posts at 180degreehealth, I’d just love to see some more hard data and some bullet lists. Crunch me some numbers, buddy!
There is absolutely no hard data in existence that I’m aware of. I seem to be the only person on earth who has noticed that excess hydration lowers metabolic rate, leading to cold extremities and a dramatically-lowered metabolic rate. When Chris became aware of that he was able to get his temperature up a couple degrees and experience all that comes with an increased metabolic rate.
Speaking of data, just playing devil’s advocate… Can you show us some data that we need “healthy fats” to function? Most of the evidence I’ve seen points to supreme function on a nearly-nonfat diet.
I’m getting a little confused. I’ve read your stuff for a couple of years and I thought you supported a high everything diet where people eat whatever they crave, reduce fluid intake to a reasonable amount, and exchange unsaturated fats for saturated fats. Maybe I’m not paying attention lately, but it seems like I’ve seen you support a low-fat diet more and more. Is that just to replace those calories with carbs, or what is going on?
It’s good to be confused. I’m confused. The times where I was certain were the times I made the biggest mistakes and wrote the most juvenile things.
I think from a strictly scientific point of view, calories being equal, with all general factors taken into consideration, a diet with a very high proportion of carbohydrate to fat is superior. In part because it reduces total unsaturated fat intake. It’s also superior from an athletic standpoint. I don’t think anyone could argue otherwise. Well, they could try, but they would fail to win that argument.
But there is a lot more than just “science” that should influence a person’s eating, such as preferences, lifestyle, activity levels, digestion, and so on. Plus all the individual stuff, like what a person has a history of starving themselves of, where they are metabolically, etc. The most important thing, from my perspective, is that the diet as a whole is enjoyable and sustainable. The diet also needs to be enjoyable enough to foster adequate calorie consumption for optimal metabolism.
With all that in mind, a person needs to be able to experiment freely to see what they like the best and what makes them feel the best – as well as have the freedom to eat more or less of one thing vs. another depending on how they feel that day and what their body is hungry for.
At the end of all that, I think it leaves the canvas much more open and free as long as one isn’t too hyperfocused on diet (lots more to health than just diet – often overlooked completely by orthorexics), and knows how to interpret his or her biofeedback to ensure good function. It’s the education about good function that I’ve gravitated to more and more, and away from the fine details of nutrition.
Very cool. Thanks for the solid response.
@Matt,
Since stumbling on to your website a few weeks ago, I started reducing my liquids by about half – just drinking enough to quench thirst. Prior to consciously cutting my water intake, I probably drank at least 70 ounces of water (not counting coffee and other drinks) but cut that in half after reading here that too much water have many negative consequences. About a week ago I got an UTI. I’ve only had an UTI once before and that was about 6 years ago. One way to get rid of an UTI is to drink lots of water so that is what I have done and it has helped a lot …
Do you know anything about UTIs? Do you think cutting back on water triggered it in me? My temps are usually in the upper 97s to lower 98s (in the 99s after a shower) but am unsure of what they were when I first started 180 recommendations.
From Eat for Heat…
FAQ
“I have a history of urinary tract infections that I have dealt with primarily by drinking a ton of fluids. Is it wise for me to really follow this program? Am I at risk for developing UTI’s again?”
I don’t think so. You certainly wouldn’t want to take it to extremes or risk dehydration, as I do think more concentrated urine is indeed more aggravating to inflamed tissue in the urinary tract. But increasing body heat, body temperature, and thus metabolic rate is synonymous with an enhanced immune system. Overcoming chronic infections is very common with an increase in body heat generation and may very well rid you of your sensitivity to develop these infections in the first place.
Just adding a late comment regarding UTIs. When I was pregnant I developed a strong aversion to drinking plain water. When I was 28 weeks pregnant I woke up with terrible abdominal pain like my insides were on fire (seriously, I actually think I may have been worse than labor). I went to hospital and they found that all was fine with baby but I had a UTI. They got me to drink 1 liter or so of water in the space of about an hour and 99% of my symptoms disappeared (still had antibiotics too). After that, I was very careful to stay well hydrated! I sometimes mixed water with fruit juice and a pinch of salt to make it go down more easily. I did also make myself drink more water than I was thirsty for, which actually seemed to do me good (helped with fatigue), I found I could offset any issues from too much water by simply eating more salt. I was put on low dose aspirin while pregnant due to family history of pre-eclampsia, but my blood pressure was healthy all the way through despite me eating a lot of salt. I also found vitamin C very helpful in preventing further UTIs.
Matt Stone:
“There is absolutely no hard data in existence that I’m aware of. I seem to be the only person on earth who has noticed that excess hydration lowers metabolic rate, leading to cold extremities and a dramatically-lowered metabolic rate.”
Aajonus Vonderplanitz may not have said that in so many words, but he was the first and only author I’m aware of (besides you) who said that drinking water by the glass was a bad idea, going against near-universally accepted dogma.
Yeah, Vonderplanitz said that while encouraging guzzling a half gallon of milk a day and a quart or so of green juice. Konstantin Monastyrsky said something about overhydrating as well. But neither said anything about metabolic rate, cold extremities, hyponatremia, or anything related. I’m certainly the first with an easily-pronounceable name.
You forget the macrobiotic crew. George Osawa warned about over hydration in the sixties.
Don’t forget, some people also need more water. Days I don’t drink enough, I feel much worse. Anxiety is usually the most noticeable symptom. I have noticed keeping my salt consumption high is much more effective than trying to limit fluids, which works horribly for me. May be different for some people. I just drink to thirst, which seems to work well.
I have found the same thing. Also, if I don’t go heavy on the salt and just drink to thirst, I can literally go all day without urinating. Makes me feel like crepe.
I need to consume more liquids than I need, but balance it out with more salt. I’ll actually urinate then.
quote: “side-step the post-smoothie freeze (chilly hands and feet, anyone?) that your usual health-fanatic’s kale juice and watermelon smoothie will do every time.”
Nope, never experienced this. Ever.
P.S. I do enjoy butter, eating more in winter when I don’t eat much fruit. Actually, I was getting a craving for fruit the other day, even though it is late winter here. I only eat very ripe fruit, otherwise it disagrees with me. I was thinking of opening a can of mango and buying some frozen berries to have with some banana. Maybe I’ll even buy a small amount of cream to have with it. Yum.
Wow. That makes you perhaps the first person I have ever encountered that can drink a kale and watermelon smoothie and not be noticeably cooler after.
I don’t get cold from drinking cold drinks, even in winter. If you have a healthy and strong metabolism, they are probably OK. Matt never said otherwise. his point was that people who are experience cold extremities, frequent or urgent urination and other symptoms should try less water, more salt / sugar / saturated fat / starch… I have benefited some from more salt, I think. I do notice that eating a lot of fat can make my blood pressure and pulse drop and I feel sleepy. Drinking more sugar sodas (as in Sierra Mist, Pepsi Throwback, and Whole Foods Tonic Water) has helped with that and many other problems, so I have higher energy, better healing, more focus and concentration, better divided attention, faster reaction time and reflexes, it is like being on amphetamines someone said, but I don’t need any stimulants (caffeine or pseudo-ephedrine). HFCS doesn’t seem to work well, at least Dr. Pepper. Tonic with HFCS was OK. Maybe clear drinks with HFCS like Sprite are OK, but I like the taste of sugar drinks better and think they are a little more energizing, the HFCS is more relaxing and I got some small whiteheads the next day after using HFCS tonic and HFCS Dr. Pepper. I wish there were more options with sugar.
I don’t know what to believe anymore when it comes to nutrition, so many diet gurus says different things and they all seems so convincing. I have no idea if pufas or sugar is good or bad.
i think that’s a great place to start.
Yeah Henk. That’s like the springboard to rational and intelligent thought. Congrats on not being a brainwashed drone anymore!
Matt or anyone, how do I get notifications when someone replies to me here, or better yet the article in general? Please help. Thanks.
I don’t know.
Another quick mechanical suggestion for the forums. With a dozen or so categories, it’s very time consuming to check each one to see what’s new. It would be much more convenient if there were no categories (or just a few) because you could see all the new threads in one place. Just something to consider.
That was one way google blogger was better, IMO. You could subscribe to the threads and see when new comments were added. How do you keep up with comments? Are you notified as the mod? Personally, I do not like the new site or forums. it is vastly less functional and easy to use for discussion. There are free services that were better – Google Groups, Yahoo Groups, Blogger. Just keeping it real.
I’m eating turkey hill Ice cream everyday I’m actually to lean I think
Count me in among the pro-sugar dittoheads. There is no question I feel the best when I eat tons of the stuff, whether in the form of table sugar, honey, high fructose corn syrup, or fruit. I’ve been eating several bananas a day, along with a few sugary drinks, and it’s been great for my digestion and energy.
As an important aside, I’ve noticed that I need to eat a lot of protein to get the full benefits (perhaps because sugary foods tend to be so low in protein in themselves). A great combo I’ve recently discovered is high-protein Greek yogurt with sugar and fruit. Another great combo is a steak and potato with a big soda. It’s amazing for physical recovery.
I put quite a bit of collagen hydrosylate in my smoothies. Or at least I have been for the past couple of weeks. The protein definitely helps. When I tried to eat super high sugar like Chris in the past I definitely was missing some key components – like protein and salt.
Interesting. Does the collagen affect the taste of the smoothies?
No not at all. Stuff is near-flavorless. Having one right now. 4 bananas, strawberries, collagen (maybe 2T but I don’t measure), orange juice, little white sugar. Perfect way to balance out all the salt in the double cheeseburger I ate for dinner haha.
I’m a big fan of collagen hydrolysate too. I also think it goes a really long way in terms of a sustainable diet on account of how convenient it is to use and its indefinite shelf life.
I just bought some regular old porcine gelatin, but I guess I’ll try the collagen hydrolysate once I finish the package. Is there a reason the latter is better than the former? I guess tastelessness could be a real advantage. My gelatin has a bit of an odor.
I think gelatin like gummy bears/savers/worms, marshmallows, jell-o dessert, ox-tail soup & chicken feet stew might be more effective at conserving protein. I get high-fat greek yogurt from Trader Joe’s (strawberry, apricot mango, or honey) and maybe have a soda or juice with that. What do you mean, high-protein, David? Low-fat? I would have the full-fat, since it tastes better and has a better mouth-feel. I do not believe that fat-and-carbs is the problem. PUFA-and-sugars, maybe. I had a couple chicken drumsticks last night with Sierra Mist and woke up a little stiff and sore. If I limit PUFAs, I feel better. How about you, David?
When I said “high protein Greek yogurt,” I was just trying to contrast it with regular yogurt. You’d have to eat a lot of the regular stuff to get 14-16 grams, but you get it with one cup of the Greek kind (i.e. strained). Since I’m eating it for the protein, that’s important to me. The yogurt I’ve been buying is 2% fat, but I couldn’t buy the full fat stuff even if I wanted it, since I don’t think it’s available at any of the local groceries. (We don’t have a TJs or WFs, despite the presence of a major university here.)
I’m eating a bit of gelatin, as well as a lot of meat for one meal a day. Today, my meat came in the form of a 7 oz. sirloin and 4 jumbo shrimp at lunch.
I definitely don’t think sugars are the problem, and in fact they are much easier for me to digest than starch. As far as PUFAs, I don’t really know. I have little interest in them as food and so don’t eat them much anyway. It is no challenge to give up Ranch dressing, mayonnaise, and frier grease. My main source of fat is from dairy, mainly because it tastes the best. Maybe it’s better for me because of its saturation, but I’ve never done a controlled diet experiment on myself to see if SFAs and PUFAs really make any difference.
It seems to me that everyone has different ratios of macronutrients that make them feel great. Some do great with a lot of fats, some more carbs, and some people need a lot of protein. I know that some people who follow this aren’t crazy about WAP, but the thing I learned from the man’s work is that different people reach their ideal metabolism on different diets…some higher fat, some higher protein and some higher carb. I’ve met so many people thriving on diets I thought were “unhealthy” (like vegetarian) and would make me feel awful that I’ve given up preaching what one “should” eat. High fat works for ya? Great! High carb – more power to ya! I would guess ancestry determines a lot…Native Americans and Hispanics seem to really suffer from eating the SAD as opposed to those of European descent. We can tell everyone to eat whatever the hell they want, but we all do have foods our bodies prefer over others.
I agree. Just because one diet works for a person, that doesn’t mean it will work for someone else. As much as I like to read studies and learn about other people’s experiences, nothing can beat self-experimentation.
Some people are lucky and will be healthy regardless of what they eat, and some people just fall into good habits without thinking about them. But that’s not going to be true for a lot of people. Some are just careless, but others actively choose diets that hurt them because of their false beliefs about food. The only way to fix this problem, in my opinion, is to put fears aside, experiment, and learn to interpret our bodies’ signals.
Will power can be the worst possible trait, because will power allows us to continue destructive habits without paying attention to our bodies. I’ve gradually learned to listen to what my body wants–and to think intelligently about the best ways to satisfy those wants. But as you said, it’s likely people’s nutritional needs differ, and this could be because of genetics or how our bodies adapt to how we are raised. In any case, it’s clear to me that my ideal diet is going to be exactly the same as everyone else’s.
David: “Will power can be the worst possible trait, because will power allows us to continue destructive habits without paying attention to our bodies.”
Great quote. I’ve been trying to put that idea into words. I think that saved Matt and others on here from a lot of trouble, they did not get on some bad diet and stick to it until it caused big problems. They constantly studied and experimented and challenged accepted dogma. Sugar in the past was used to treat various problems. The fact that diabetics have high blood sugar does not prove that eating too much sugar (or starch) was the reason. Maybe not eating enough was the problem or not having enough nutritious foods to support higher metabolism. Same thing is true with calories, in general. I’ve seen countless people who couldn’t lose weight on starving themselves or skipping meals, when they ate more and avoided hunger they suddenly lost a lot of weight and improved their health. Will-power is a double-edged sword.
Strike that. Will power is over-rated. A healthy diet must be “enjoyable and sustainable,” like Matt said above, IMO. “The diet also needs to be enjoyable enough to foster adequate calorie consumption for optimal metabolism.” For low-carb, zero-carb, paleo, low-fat, vegan, and fruitarian, that is very hard. They aim to have a low-metabolism and brag about not being hunger, as if it were inherently good and not a short-sighted goal that causes new problems down the line. A good diet should not require will-power. It also shouldn’t be addictive. You should have greater flexibility, not rigidness.
I agree completely.
Willpower (too much of it!) has been an Achilles heel in many areas of life, not just health. E.g., studying too much in college! E.g., persisting in a job that was a bad fit. E.g., sticking with boyfriends that weren’t good matches. And so on. Sometimes I could use more, though … when overtired, it’s easy to accidentally watch too much TV instead of reading or sleeping.
Willpower can also be an amazing thing. I know people who have lifted themselves out of some pretty grim circumstances on nothing but willpower and determination.
Great point, Amy! I guess that also describes me, as well … getting out of a bad childhood in a really rural place with no opportunity, and being a first-generation college grad. Anyone more familiar with reality/less desperate/less determined/less arrogant would’ve never attempted much of what I did as a kid and young adult. (I mean, I’m not some great rags-to-riches success or anything now … but just escaping the worst of one’s upbringing counts for something, I think.)
A lot of that willpower was fueled by adrenaline, literally fight or flight, as I perceived getting away from my home situation as a fight for survival. That adrenaline-based willpower worked, and transferred to other situations, still worked great for a long time, until I ended up burnt out, at least mentally if not physically as well.
The next chapter is trying now to bring the same determination to life without the “high,” and to do it via persistence instead of heroic charges to battle.
Thanks for the reminder to look at the “side effects” of willpower in context of also appreciating what it’s done for me.
That’s really great mightly m. What you have done sounds really impressive!
I remember reading somewhere that when you are young you can bulldoze your way through life, relying on energy and adrenaline. But as you get older, you need to learn to negotiate situations more gracefully, saving your energy and working “smarter” rather than harder. It made a lot of sense to me.
I do like having the will-power not to watch lots of TV and movies, because reading or sleeping IS more beneficial, IMO. I am going to ditch the TV soon, but you have to box up all the equipment & take it back, kind of a hassle. I mostly watch Turner classic movies, the Comedy Central news shows, PBS, C-SPAN, music channels, and so on. Cable and satellite are a waste of money, time, and mind, IMO. What do I gain? They are a drug, soma, shows and movies are the opiate of the masses.
Willpower is also a finite resource. When you wake up in the morning, you have a limited amount of it and each time you use it, it gets depleted. So if we go around restricting food and only eating certain “legal” things, we’re more likely to snap at our husband or kids later. (Baumeister and Tierney)
Pinch of salt? I find I need at least a 1/4 tsp per glass of fruit juice.
A decent two finger pinch is typically about 1/8th teaspoon. There is the 3 finger pinch which is probably about 1/4 teaspoon. Pick you pinch of choice.
Matt said a few posts back about compensating for your past diets. So a low carber like me who had a high fat diet for many years, and did RRARF and brought the carbs back in, but didn’t lower the fats. The carbs I most craved though, was soda, not fruit. So forty pounds later (20 good, 20 maybe not), I’m now trying to adjust for that. High easy carbs (sugar, fruit, white bread, low fat dairy) and lessening the integral fats (butter, coconut oils, bone in meat/skin/marrow/joints). I immediately noticed, downing fruits between meals makes me crave less soda or fluid in general with meals. I’m highly sensitive though to getting clear pee though. I’m in the Twilight Zone. My freaking grocery cart has lots of fruits and god help me, skim milk (I can’t digest higher fat milk, raw milk gives me instant headaches). Worse, my diet resembles that of the late Food Pyramid, grains, fruits, veggies, and limited meat/fats. This is my punishment for being such a low-carb snob. Anyway, using the compensation thing I think can help direct people where to go. What did you overdo/underdo in the past, reverse it, watch your temps and pee, and go from there.
I love ‘my punishment for being such a low-carb snob’. I used to be one. Now, I almost eat a ‘balanced diet’ like the one that we learned in school, with the four food groups: some starch, some protein (often not meat, often dairy or rice/beans.), some veggie, some fruit (usually berries). My punishment is a retro looking plate resembling something from the 1950s.
Great post,
If anyone cares, I’ve found my zero-fat, high-sugar, high-protein diet to be the bees knees. I am leaner, bigger, stronger, happier and as energetic as I’ve ever been.
I must say everyone seriously over-analyzes what they eat, are enamored with dietary fat, and are fearful of any form of carbohydrate especially sugar.
High sugar, high protein. You’re talking my language!
Yeah David, we chatted a bit in that Anabolism thread if you remember. I’ve changed a few things recently after doing more digging thru ray peats stuff. Dropped the vegetables besides carrots. Health-nuts are going to start pulling out their hair when they read someones abandoned green things. No more starch for me either, don’t miss it.
I seriously can only read a few blogs nowadays because so many spew “paleo”, low-carb, high-fat, carb-fearing, illogical and absurd nonsense. I imagine someone throwing up when I read that garbage.
Now I remember. You need an avatar so it’s easier to recognize you. I’m with you on the vegetables too. I eat a few for flavor, but they don’t seem all that important to me. After our conversation, I switched most of my starches to sugars, and it’s been working great. My basic diet now consists of fruit, milk, and meat, though I still eat a bit of starch just for taste.
So, a heck of a lot of liquids (in order to keep calories up)? Do you find that you’re having to pee a lot? Any problems with chilliness?
Not really, but I don’t eat many watery fruits. I eat a lot of bananas, for example, and also eat the milk in solid forms like yogurt and cheese.
I’d love some of those benefits, but – is it just me or does it appear that it’s more the men who do best with the high sugar low fat approach? Because when I tried it I felt dreadful in that liverish way – nausea, hungover, weight gain, headaches, aching etc. Eggs and liver cooked in coconut oil and butter, and a little more animal protein generally, totally fixed that in days. Could it be a bigger estrogen overload problem in women, needing more of those fats and nutrients to control? I don’t do well on too little fat but would prefer to find a way to have less as it seems the PUFAs are even in the good oils, in smallish percentages maybe, but they add up.
Sue, I had the same thing happen– total nausea and diarrhea from too much sugar. What I don’t get is why these “one size fits all” diet advice keeps coming up– as if everyone would do better on adding sugar, yet our glandular functions are different and men and women are different. Heck, even in different climates or at different seasons our bodies need different things to be in balance! Someone who is adrenally weak is not going to do well eating a lot of bananas with phosphorus but will do great on a diet that includes saturated fats and beef and dairy! Apples would be too sugary but blueberries wouldn’t. I bet there are a lot of readers who have pituitary issues on here because they are the ones that suffer with weight gain most of their lives so it isn’t just about the thyroid. Estrogen levels can certainly fluctuate with the types of foods you eat because food DOES contain hormones. White table sugar is devoid of nutrition and I don’t think anyone could prove it was good for anyone to eat. Fructose from fruit is combines with a bunch of other vitamins and hormones… you get a lot for your buck when you eat it. Anyone who eats more than a piece of fruit at a sitting is just ridiculous. If you can’t be moderate about how much you eat, then there is something wrong in the mental realm or you have some big yeast issues or fungi that want fed really badly.
“Anyone who eats more than a piece of fruit at a sitting is just ridiculous. If you can’t be moderate about how much you eat, then there is something wrong in the mental realm or you have some big yeast issues or fungi that want fed really badly.”
“Someone who is adrenally weak is not going to do well eating a lot of bananas with phosphorus but will do great on a diet that includes saturated fats and beef and dairy! Apples would be too sugary but blueberries wouldn’t.”
These are ridiculous statements, and getting nausea and diarrhea when adding fruit to your diet after a long time of eating very little of it does not mean that it is inherently bad for you. We all have to get our calories from somewhere. Many argue that fruit is the best place to get most of them. Others just notice they feel better as they start to rely on fruit and sugar in general as a primary fuel source. Chris is suggesting in this article that a high fruit diet might be worth a fair trial for those dissatisfied with how they feel. I don’t think being open to the idea automatically qualifies someone for the mental ward.
I got nausea and diarrhea from adding too much sugar from many different sources. I never said I just ate fruit! I am all for eating fruit. But not so much that you exclude other food groups. Obviously fruit doesn’t give you every nutrient you need. I thought you said that diets were ridiculous– so a high fruit diet is just one of those ridiculous diets! You are like a dog chasing its tail. Seriously. And when you disrupt normal endocrine functions, you can affect mental functioning too. I think I’m done with all of this– you can continue to question everything but eventually it will consume your life (oh, yeah, it already has!) and then you’ll never find “the answer”. Good luck. I’ve already found the answer for me and its working.
The consumption of my life by health pursuits is a distant remnant of the past. I hardly do anything with the intent to make myself healthier anymore. Nor am I looking for the answer, because I learned in the course of all this that there is no answer, only tiny fragments of information that can be useful to small subsets of people. I wouldn’t call a diet with a lot of fruit a ridiculous diet by any stretch. Chris’s is well beyond what is realistic for most, but he’s not advocating people eat like he does, but eat pancakes and lots of normal food as he states in the post… customizing it for themselves and experimenting freely with increasing sugar intake – something I’ve discussed here since early 2011. http://youtu.be/kbMdxoV3VTQ't=4m
Anyway, I encourage you not to give up on sugar too quickly. It may be exactly what you need, but something to integrate slowly into your diet as you acclimate to the change.
“Obviously fruit doesn’t give you every nutrient you need”.
No food gives us every single nutrient that we need. But fruit is actually very nutritionally dense and for many people, the more the better. I am one of those people. I do quite well on a high sugar, high fruit diet, similar to Chris and some of the other people here. When I eat LOTS of sugar from fruit AND added sucrose, honey and molasses, I am at my best physically and mentally. My skin and eyes look great and my weight stays low even when I eat amounts of fruit and sugar (including my almost daily Pepsi throwback) that people like you would consider excessive. When I start doubting my results and go back to eating lots of vegetables, everything goes downhill: the weight comes on quickly, my skin and eyes get dull and I get depressed with low energy. These negative changes occur when the only change is going from using sugar as my primary source of carbohydrates to vegetables and grains as my primary source of carbohydrates, with protein and fat remaining constant.
Why is it so difficult for people like you to accept that you are wrong about sugar and that some people actually THRIVE on lots of sugar from both fruit and refined sources? I add lots of refined sugar to my fruit and milk and juice and Greek yogurt and the more the better. In fact, I have stronger, nicer-looking teeth with no sensitivity when I eat lots of sugar. The times during my life when I restricted processed sugar and fruit were periods in which I had horrible dental health, even with diligent oral care and taking supplements like calcium, vitamin d magnesium etc. Starch is horrible for the teeth, yet dentists will tell people to limit sugars.
Sugar has rejuvenated me. Before I started eating Peat style with lots of added sugar, people used to guess my age much older than I was. Just a few months after changing to a sugar-based diet, people started guessing my age younger than actual and younger men constantly show interest in me.
I know so many people who are struggling with weight issues and various health problems while eating all the things that are supposedly healthy and practically no fruit and sugar and yet those same people will tell me how terrible sugar is and that it is wrong to eat a lot of fruit. What a joke. People blame sugar for their health problems even when they don’t eat it, LOL. Dr Lustig does not eat sugar yet he looks older than Ray Peat! I don’t understand. Maybe it is human nature to believe that anything that tastes or makes us feel good (like sugar and saturated fat) is bad for us. But there is no turning back for me. I will take sugar-sweetened ice cream (made with REAL cream) over plain, unsweetened, skim milk yogurt any day.
I’ll take real cream anything any day too. But too much sugar makes my molar hurt and packs on the pounds around my waist very quickly plus gives me heart palpitations, energy crashes, and my face breaks out. I get horrible cramps during my period and fight foggy thinking. I get dry skin and keratosis … I could go on and on! And this has all been observed over many years. I just tried to up my sugar intake a lot again and all these things came up and reminded me why I don’t think sugar is good for me. I’m siding with doctors on this one that believe it causes adrenal failure. I’m not chancing it by going back to four years ago when that was happening to me. I think being excessive is risky. Didn’t you say that people that go vegan feel great at first but then it catches up with them– not enough A, etc. My mom had some nutrition coach tell her she should cut out red meat and go to a very carb (fruit and veg) diet and she started having episodes of dizziness and fainting. This was after recovering from Grave’s Disease so, duh, you don’t mess with the hormones by taking away saturated fats with someone in her condition. There’s a lot of risky guessing… One minute you’re feeling great, the next you’re wondering why you trusted advice that was so screwed up and risked your health!
Bad ass post Ann. I too share the same experience. I also ditched vegetables (besides carrots) and starch. The amount of dogma surrounding sugar is tremendous.
I invite anyone that has had bad experiences or has not considered upping the sweet stuff to go with an open mind and read Ray Peats posts, Danny Roddys’, Andrew Kims, and the posts here as well.
I forgot to mention that more fruit was also part of the solution for me. It was kind of a time travel moment when I realized this was how I used to eat in those window periods between the diets that messed me up :-S ! And I too am not crazy about vegetables, dont feel that great on them. After reading all these comments i ‘m going to gradually up sugar again and see how it goes. Ann it’s great you’ve found your answers! I’m not there yet. they seem to be so different for everyone.
We recently had a big Lustig-inspired anti-sugar piece on the TV
http://www.abc.net.au/catalyst/stories/3821440.htm?utm_source=twitterfeed&utm_medium=twitter
Bit disappointed to see the academics jumping on the carbophobe wagon
“like every vegetarian on the face of the planet, that Chris has a Vitamix”
WOW ! So Chris Randall is no longer vegan ? Something went wrong with the majestic 80-10-10 diet ?
He’s still vegan. Full throttle for that kid.
Off-topic. Hey, Matt, you have some wonderful posts buried in the archives. Would you be willing to highlight some of your best older posts – maybe on days you’re not up for posting something new? I know your thinking on nutrition has evolved over the years, but surely there must be ideas that you feel stand the test of time. It would be great re-reading some of those.
I often post old posts on the 180D facebook page. I will be doing some backpacking and hiking this fall and Rob will be posting a lot of “replays” over there. That’s the best spot to find that kind of thing.
Facebook? Gosh, Matt, kinda dangerous. I thought everyone on FB is going to be indefinitely detained in some FEMA camp.
At least we’ll all be together.
This a dreadfully written article.
and i thought that glorifying food group while vilifying another was scary
thing from the dark past..
Chris, eating tons of fruits bores the shit out me. Banana smoothie might be
your wet dream, for me is holds the attraction of the dead fly on a horse ass.
It is upsetting to see the wheel turning to another “man with vision” in nutrition
believing that with few tasteless jabs at few worthless Paleo idiots will win
the somehow eclectic following of this site.
eat fruits and skip the butter.. really? why the fuck should i?
Because then you might not be so angry. :-)
Ha!
Just eating a dead fly on a horse ass is not that great but have some fructose with it and it’s a delicious and balanced meal.
I could never eat this way either, but to each their own. If it works for him, great. I think it would make social situations a lot less fun- what do you order when you’re out with friends? I don’t like fruit much at all so this sounds very unappealing to me. I’ve also noticed that when I’m really, really hungry, fruit is the last thing I want. I want something heartier like pot roast and potatoes.
Elina: who are you trying to impress? If you’re bored, go do something interesting.
Under the influence of 180, I put more sweet stuff and my diet and I am not doing poorly overall. However, I like the take of Chinese medicine that the 5 flavors should be balanced to maintain health -after all those buds receptor are on our tongue for a reason. My theory along those lines, for what is worth, is that having too much sweetness over other flavors might in the long term create some unbalance – coffee and Swedish bitter are great digestive because they are, well, bitter for example. Granted it’s a bit more esoteric than chemical. but I stand convince that one flavor shouldn’t overpower the other one all year long otherwise one stimulate some organs over some other, and even some way of thinking over another, as sweet don’t bring the same emotions than sour or salty for example. That still leave room for sweet, but sweet over everything else. not sure it’s a good thing.
Interesting input Laurent
“Whatever works for you” I’m hearing a lot and thinking that’s absolutely correct. It’s a particular consumption, lifestyle and environmental patterns that allows your mind to disengage from food choices and allows your hypothalamus to take control of the wheel. But it’s also so much bigger than the individual, it’s about everyone, think something like the “hundredth monkey effect”
The #1 mistake I ever made was deviating from what my mother provided for me every day, which her mother had similarly provided for her, so on and so on. It was automatic, the “rules” were ingrained, subliminal, beneficial, and completely natural, every need and want catered for and balanced perfectly and effortlessly. I’m sure, like myself, others here have seen food issues sweep through siblings, friends and families like some kind of supraphysical plague… All it takes is that first “diet” or deviation. So sad…
Eating 15-banana smoothies becasue you have an aversion to fat is nowhere near the solution to anything.. Even if it “works for you” as an individual at the present moment. It’s just a symptom of a bigger societal problem that you’re a part of
Every culture has their own “cuisine” or way of eating that over the centuries/millenia “worked for them.” Maybe all they had to work with was rice and vegies, or seal blubber, or had particular religious beliefs, but it all worked itself out. It’s really quite elegant, think about all the cuisines of the world that evolved to care for the fitness of the individual and the species as a whole
Modern lifestlye factors are assaulting this process from every angle. Left brain dominance and interference!!!! One side you have food and drink molecularly designed for addiction, causing overweight. The other side you have people so self-absorbed and abhorred by overweight that they feel compelled to restrict. Health gurus so afraid of human mortality that they’ll start a cult just to screw up everyone’s mortal lives. Guess what, we’re all going to die and that’s ok, just live. Whole industries are built around making us hate ourselves, for profit.
Food groups are a RED HERRING. Academics are great left-brainers. First it was fat, now it’s sugar, now it must be the carbs… Yep… No wonder no-one can figure it out and it’s only getting worse (the ED/obesity “epidemics”). It’s not margarine. It’s not HFCS. It’s like the more you try and tinker with it and break it down, the more it propagates and the more fcked up it gets
Should be something more like “Whatever works for us” And with doctors now being told to prescribe hours of structured exercise a day, random people drinking 15-banana smoothies, CLEARLY IT IS NOT WORKING people
I think we are witnessing the deterioration of our own species, the decline is here and the signs are all around us, this website being one of them. I sound completely crazy but needed that rant
That was a bit of a rant, lol, but I do mostly agree. I am pretty convinced that the best diet is a moderate one, with 3 squares a day. It’s sustainable and it’s what most of our ancestors have been doing for millenia. I’m sure there is room for a smoothie if you love it, but no need to be forcing these things on your body.
Thanks for that. Put another way is calling it acceptance. Acceptance of ones needs and desires. Gradual awareness of those things. Sticking with it. There is so much delusional thinking out there mainly because of expectations. What we should weigh. How we should look. I am trying to go only with how I feel both physically and emotionally with food and life in general.
How do you manage to eat alot and drink little and keep your urine slight yellow or colored? when i eat after a while i jut get suuuuper thirsty and down alot of water or else i get crazy and think about water all the time.
Matt may disagree with this, but I believe restricting water is like restricting food – not a good idea. It’s a bad idea to force yourself to drink when you are not thirsty, but if you’re eating and it’s making you thirsty, seems to me that it is counterproductive not to drink. Some people drink juice or milk instead of water while they are healing.
I think the goal is just to not wash yourself out. Whatever volume of water, juice, milk, etc. you consume is fine if you’re not getting those cold hands and feet, running to the bathroom often, peeing clear, etc.
Sometimes people have all those symptoms along with dry mouth. The body seems to be signaling for more fluid, but it only exacerbates the problem if they heed it. In those cases, having a little something salty and carby, and holding off on fluids for a bit may help.
In the earlier stages of my no-diet diet, I made this mistake a few times. One time I drank 2 liters (67 ounces) of water in 30 minutes but I kept finding myself getting thirstier and thirstier.
I got the bright idea of trying some some extremely salted water (saltier than sea water) and only took a few sips, and my thirst was quenched.
That is an interesting take on sugar. However don’t you think we need to go beyond looking at just weight, and also look at our internal biomarkers that are often better represented by various levels of inflammation?
For example, take a look at testing like this, does Ben go too far? Is he way off base?
http://www.bengreenfieldfitness.com/2012/08/how-to-self-test-your-body/
reading this blog post makes the quote ‘ i think we like to complicate things, when really life is quite simple, find what works for you,do it, find what you love to do, do it’ because i know the purpose of this site and any other site is to discuss nutrition, but its such a controversial and personal field, it seems it can only serve to wind/ worry the already anxious. if butter makes you feel good, have it, if dried fruit makes you have a headache void it, if you prefer vegetables over fruit, eat vegetables- you know? anxiety is the biggest problem, its not whats right in general, its whats right for you- right now- it may change, years later you may ditch butter and veg for fruit and oatmeal, but because u eat butter and veg right now doesnt make you wrong!
As much as I like a lot of Matt’s work and agree with much of it, this place is getting downright silly. Like claims that adding food “x” made them leaner, or that their weight loss is due to drinking huge fruit smoothies every day lol. What makes you leaner is expending more calories in a day than you consume.
Don’t believe me? Experiment for yourself and weigh/track your food. Add whatever magical food you think is going to make you leaner above your maintenance calories and I guarantee you’ll gain weight. Do this 100 times and you’ll always get the same result. The only time people lose slightly more weight when adding food back is when reverse dieting from contest prep, as the carbohydrates help shed more water while slowly ramping back up a severely hampered metabolism. 99.9% of the population will NEVER come anywhere close to the effects a bodybuilder sustains in contest prep because you followed a low carb diet for a couple years or whatever the latest “in” excuse is.
Can normal people end up in a bad place hormonally from crash dieting? You bet, but that’s from extreme CRASH diets, not moderate deficits coupled with proper exercise and eating habits.
Unfortunately there is no excuse, and never will be, to eat more and lose weight. It helps to eat more to repair a damaged/slowed metabolism but once you’re at that point it all comes back down to simple thermodynamics, moderation and patience.
This.
Michael, I beg to disagree. The “maths”of calories is a seductive theory, but in reality one ingested calorie does not equal to one calories used or not used by the body, it’s more complicated. Otherwise many obese people who eat the right amount of calorie per day would not be, well, obese and we all know the odd tall lean dude who eat whatever he wants and doesn’t gain a gram. I among other followers of this blog can attest that even beyond refeeding, eating more does not lead to more weight gain, one your metabolism is on high gear. It’s not a calorie problem, it is a metabolism matter. In Victorian times they were eating 6000-8000 calorie a day, from nutrient dense food, and were not obese; granted they were exercising more but we can multiply the examples, including with animals that eat all day long and exercise little
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2672390/
If you have travelled or lived in Asia, you know that the average Asian eat like crazy everyday – they eat ALL the time, and tend to be lean.
Laurent,
Your comment shows a major lack of understanding in basic physiology.
Many people in the fitness industry still argue the same points as you, and these people are what we call “bros” spouting bro science because the knowledge they have is based not on facts and science but on anecdote and observation. The problem with this is 99 times out of 100 their assumptions are based on correlation, not causation and therefore wrong.
I’m not sure if you even realize this but all your Victorian study did was further emphasize my point on calories in vs calories out. They ate substantially more due to, and this is quoted directly from the study you posted: “…the high levels of physical activity routinely undertaken by the Victorian working classes, calorific requirements ranged between 150 and 200% of today’s historically low values. Almost all work involved moderate to heavy physical labour, and often included that involved in getting to work.”
Ummm, the same goes for people who work like this today and many athletes. You can expect most of them to live beyond the general life expectancy in this day and age as well, as we all know that being active and eating a healthy nutrient dense diet can improve pretty much every health marker, reduce chances of disease and increase longevity. Not to mention much of this work the Victorians did would have been outside as well, getting fresh unpolluted air and much needed Vitamin D. Sleep habits would have been better than they are today, following a more natural light/dark circadian rythym without today’s artificial light distractions, family values were higher and meals eaten together with family often, etc. MANY factors contributing to health and longevity that are just as applicable today. I love how people cherry pick one thing from a study to attempt to prove a point.
Your comment about Asians is pretty much addressed above – higher energy expenditure, they eat a lot of higher volume, lower caloric density foods like white rice, fish, pork, vegetables, seafood, etc, plus many are very much against getting fat so they consciously control themselves from not overeating as they choose NOT to be fat.
Put ANY overweight person into a clinical environment on reduced calories and they will lose weight, just as every controlled weight loss study has ever shown.
There’s a reason even overweight people became rail thin in prison and war camps. Noone stayed fat because they had a suppressed metabolism from their previous low carb diet lol.
Go ahead, try the simple experiment of weighing/tracking your food for a while in a caloric surplus and tell me what happens.
I coach people in fat loss and muscle gain, and am friends with many of the best coaches out there as well – most of whom are extremely educated and dissect the science behind weight control on a regular basis. We see this stuff day in, day out with 1,000’s of clients who subject themselves to the most extreme diets and starvation imaginable. It’s frustrating to see people argue this stuff because it’s so simple and infallible.
Michael- while I agree that ultimately calories in and out are the determinant of weight, it is more complicated than you suggest, precisely because calories in and out are not fixed, but variable. Resting metabolic rate varies from person to person, muscular efficiency during movement varies, transit time varies, non-exercise activity (fidgeting) varies, hormonal profiles and therefore fuel partitioning varies.
All of these complicate an easy assessment of tracking to create a calorie deficit.
Add to this the (highly) likely existence of a body weight set point which maintains a balance between hunger and energy expenditure, which allows people to unconsciously remain weight stable for years or decades, and which rebounds the further from your set point you get (whether up or down), and the picture gets muddier yet.
Reducing calories to below appetite appears awesome and effective in the short term, but is not in itself a realistic or sustainable solution over the long term. The body does adapt, slows down metabolic rate, induces rebound hyperphagia, becomes much more efficient in its movement (so that your energy expenditure drops even doing the same activity as before), and its hormonal profile shifts to favor fat gain over lean tissue gain any time there is a surplus.
This would explain why so many people who diet, especially time and again, tend to become fatter and less heathy as time goes on.
That’s not to say it’s impossible to lose weight, or do it sustainably. Exercise does seem helpful, for its lean-tissue retention qualities and for its impact on the internal hormonal landscape. Eating a more whole foods diet can increase satiety versus an isocaloric diet of more palatable foods. Macronutrients play a role; protein has a greater thermic effect than fat and carbs, and impacts satiety more. And when people commit to changing their lives and succeed in losing weight effectively, factors that are not strictly calorie-based are usually addressed as well. Sleep, stress, meaningful work, relationships, etc.
Again, it’s not hopeless, and calories do count for something. I think the beef here on 180 with the notion of just creating a calorie deficit is simplistic to the point of being misleading, and will just as likely induce rebound weight gain after loss than create a sustainable, integrated approach to getting healthy (and losing weight as a consequence of that).
Hi Rob,
I understand where you’re coming from as thing like NEAT and adaptive thermogeneis as well as macronutrient profile need to be taken into consideration, but it is not overly complicated as many like to make it.
BMR doesn’t vary that much on a daily, weekly, monthly basis so that’s not enough to point that blame at either. A person can quite easily find their own maintenance calories, and given an intelligent program not only lose weight sustainably but avoid future rebounds.
The biggest problem is that people diet and lose a bunch of weight, then decide to binge and begin eating a lot more right away leading to rebound fat gain. It is much more important to reverse out of dieting slowly, than into a diet. Approaching a diet aggressively from the beginning is more effective as that is when fat loss is usually greatest.
After dieting for extended periods (research tends to show metabolic slowdown/adaptive thermogenesis sets in after 6 weeks or so in most people), the body slows down to preserve precious fat tissue. That’s why it is so important to start building calories back slowly and let the metabolism recover, to avoid rebound weight gain. But unfortunately 99% of people will ignore this most important piece of the puzzle and blame it on “diets don’t work”.
There’s no quick fix and this is what upsets people. Tracking your food and hitting your workouts regularly takes far more precision and effort than most people are willing to put forth, and the results and excuses speak for themselves. Everyone looks for some secret strategy like supplements or intermittent fasting and so on, when in reality by far the most important indicator of success is overall caloric intake and expenditure.
Michael and Rob, I think you guys are arguing two sides of the same coin. Crash dieting doesn’t work just the same as indefinitely eating tons of calories won’t magically reset your metabolism to a point were you can continue to eat tons of calories and loose weight. I think the whole point of 180 degree is to first get past the post diet binge phase. Then to restore metabolic function through a steady high dose of calories after which one can then let their body and appetite dictate how much to eat. If someone’s metabolism is so wrecked that they gain weight on 1500 calories a day, should they only eat 1300? I think the point is to get your set point back up to around let’s say 3500 a day at which point you should be able to maintain a normal diet and some regular moderate exercise and live life and feel good. I think Michael is mostly talking about dieting to loose weight and some people may really need to do that for health reasons. A lot of people on this site were eating special diets in the hopes of gaining other types of health benefits that have proven to be elusive especially when your metabolism gets wrecked. Others on this site have restricted too many calories for too many years due to eating disorders and special diets. I don’t doubt that your program can and does work for many people but for a lot of people who are just coming off of long term dieting and eating disorders, it’s akin to throwing a heart patient on a treadmill the day after surgery in order to build their heart strength back up. So yes calories in,calories out and moderate exercise can be helpful as long as core nutrients are being assimilated. But one must be in realitively good health in the first place to truly benefit from sensible weight loss. Unfortunately this may involve putting on a few pounds while resetting the metabolism. I also believe that lots of rest is critical at first but eventually some exercise has to come into play. Exercise when not over done is a good metabolism booster. My body was so wrecked I couldn’t even climb a flight of stairs without fatigue. I was sensitive to sugar, dairy, and bread. Until I have these things under control ( which has been coming along nicely) I couldn’t begin to think about jumping on treadmills and counting calories.
I agree that there’s a lot of overlap between what Michael and I are saying.
His main point, that healthy, sustained fat loss takes patience and consistency, and there are no quick fixes, makes plenty of sense to me.
Tell you what, I’ll put my money where my mouth is. I’d be willing to take on 3 clients from here on a pro bono basis for fat loss coaching. Prerequisities include a fundamental understanding of basic exercices like squat, deadlift, bench press, chin-up, etc, the willingness and ability to follow the plan and track/log their food macros and workouts, and report every Sunday with their updates as that is when my clients do all of their reporting. Reporting is mandatory as the plan evolves as I gauge how each individual responds.
These 3 people would be free to share their results with the group.
If anyone wants to take me up on this, post your interest here.
Michael–I’m interested in talking to you about what your plan entails. I’ve already done Matt’s re-feed and got my metabolism back up to snuff for the most part. (Thanks Matt!)
Can I e-mail you to see if it’d be a good fit? I agree that sometimes we try to simplify the obesity problem…and it’s just not always so black and white. But for the rest of us who are not quite in that category, I think we can over-complicate things.
Sure thing Katie, post your email and I’ll get in touch with you.
Michael, I find rather funny that you bash some of your colleagues in the fitness industry while your method seems to be exactly what the fitness industry has proposed us for decades to get lean: eat less, exercise more, with epic failure in the case of obese people. Matt has written extensively about the fallacy of calorie in vs calorie out, you might want to read his articles on the matter?
http://180degreehealth.com/2011/12/the-calorie-myth-part-i-raw-food-weight-loss
http://180degreehealth.com/2011/12/the-calorie-myth-part-2-%E2%80%93-digestibility
http://180degreehealth.com/2011/12/the-calorie-myth-part-3-the-basics
http://180degreehealth.com/2012/01/the-calorie-myth-part-4-%E2%80%93-stool-volume
I take the liberty to quote Matt here: “Here is a video on some of the basics of the simplistic ?eat less/exercise more? approach to weight loss ? and why this approach is an ineffective long-term strategy with negative physical and psychological side effects?”
“or a half decade I have been tediously challenging the idea that cutting calories can lead to sustainable weight loss. If the medical literature is any indication, it is not. Sure, there are success stories, and there are methods that involve being at least somewhat calorie conscious that may indeed work ? due to the combination of factors involved in the system as a whole. But overall, from a statistical point of view, cutting calories in an act of ?intentional weight loss? is a useless, short-term fix at best. And, ‘the single greatest predictor of future weight gain? according to Paul Campos at worst.”
I won’t understand to have a total understanding of your method in the few lines you have written, but it seems that eat less/exercise more is what you propose and this is precisely what Matt has been debunking in the past 2 years; so I wonder why your preach here, it seems to be rather off mark…
Sorry in the last paragraph it should read “I won’t pretend”
Laurent,
As I’ve mentioned above, it’s quite silly to believe you can lose weight without cutting calories. Unfortunately for us, that is reality. The key is to do it in a strategic, intelligent way that doesn’t harm the metabolism/hormonal landscape and incorporate phases of building calories back up to combat adaptive thermogenesis.
I have read Matt’s stance on it over the years and understand his side, but from what I have seen he is basing his understanding on a lot of fad diets and extreme crash diets. I highly doubt he has worked with any contest prep coaches who arguably know far more about weight control than anyone else. It’s no secret that people think bodybuilders are a bunch of meatheads with limited intelligence (and many are!), but the fact is that a lot of people in this field are deeply immersed in the science and understanding of weight control. Several are actually leading the way with the science itself, conducting meaningful, controlled experiments. Plus, we have actually applied this science-based knowledge to 1000’s upon 1000’s of successful clients – none of whom you see blowing up into obese fatties afterwards.
There’s still 2 spots open for my pro bono coaching offer, if anyone else is up for the challenge…
Michael, I’m sorry, but I have to agree with Laurent. It isn’t “silly” at all to believe one can lose weight without cutting calories. I’m recovering from an eating disorder using Gwyneth Olwyn’s research over at youreatopia.com. You really should check it out. I’m a living example of someone who couldn’t help but eat 3,000+ calories a day when I began recovery. I gained a LOT of weight because my metabolism was so slow and my body was in very poor shape due to calorie restriction (and we’re talking between 1000 and 2000 calories per day – probably more than some diet programs call for). About 5 months in, I stopped gaining weight… and instead, it started heading in the other direction. Here I am, over a year later. I still eat 3,000+ calories a day. Some days, I eat way more. My activity level has not increased at all. And yet, nearly 30 pounds has just slid off of me throughout this time. I actually find that on days when I have still have bouts of extreme hunger and clock in at 5 or 6 thousand calories, I lose a few pounds even more quickly and my clothes fit even more loosely. I happen to be close friends with 4 other women whom I met through Gwyn’s site, and this very same phenomenon is happening to all of them. We’ve been monitoring and marveling at this process in ourselves and each other from Day 1. I understand that you’re adequately well-versed in certain facets of health and wellness and weight loss… but might I suggest keeping an open mind to facets you have not truly examined before?
Best wishes :)
Refreshing comment, many thanks Desi. I think providing our body with with it needs and then let it decide what to do with it in the long run, rather than artificially limiting our intake and trying to outsmart our metabolism, is the way to go.
First of all, let me just say that I realize the body is not necessarily an exercise in mathematics. It’s also not about “outsmarting” your metabolism, it’s about working with it. Your body gives you all the feedback you need to lose weight effectively and sustainably, but most people haven’t got a clue how to do it and instead resort to crash diets, super low calories and ignoring critical negative feedback.
I never said anything about not being able to repair your metabolism and lose weight eating more calories than you were originally able to. In fact that is exactly what a person should do. Instead most will drastically cut calories, add tons of exercise and when their metabolism dive bombs and they gain back all the weight and more, they’re quick to claim diets don’t work. You’re right, if you do it in a half-assed, unintelligent manner like that.
Congrats Desi on losing the weight as a result of repairing your metabolism! But, don’t mistake correlation with causation here. You lost weight because your metabolic capacity increased (from eating more food), which allowed you to naturally lose some weight. You didn’t lose weight because you ate more food, that simply acted as the catalyst that put you in a state where a deficit was effective again, so on the days you do naturally eat less, you lose weight. Those higher calorie days are basically refeed days, which help recover leptin levels and also mobilize water from fat cells.
I’d be interested too, but I’m not sure I’d be a good fit as my metabolism isn’t yet up to par.
Jon, we can always work on that as well. The coaching always fits the person, not the other way around.
I am confused. I thought one of the main points of 180 degree health was that diets aren’t good and you should eat what you feel like. Are you saying its better to eat a low fat diet? Personally I have gained 15 pounds over the last 8 months and a lot of cellulite to go with it. I’ve never really had a huge problem with cellulite before and I used to be only 110 without any struggle. I feel like 180 has kind of messed up my mentality in a way and I am also confused as to what is the best way to eat? Any ideas on how to get rid of the cellulite and extra weight?
Sarah,
Who said anything about a low fat diet? I hope you’re not thinking it was me as I don’t promote diets too low in fat, because once fats get down below a certain point it causes hormonal issues as well as ravenous hunger. Just not sustainable.
Personally, my fat loss programs are based on a balanced, flexible dieting approach that allows people to eat pretty much whatever they want as long as it fits in the plan while making sure they still hit basic micronutrient needs. This is what works in the long term, as any kind of restrictive diet just leads to rebound/binge eating. The more restrictive the diet, the bigger the binge/rebound when a person eventually does go off plan. It happens, but the key is to be good most of the time and that is enough for normal folks.
Has anyone been tracking their blood glucose levels and seen improvements in insulin sensitivity when consuming so much sugar. I am not doubting the benefits of exchanging starch for sugars as I know introducing OJ has been great for me. I am just really, really scared (terrified actually) to up the sugar/fructose. My father died from pancreatic cancer and the thought of damaging my pancreas is terrifying me. I’d loved to hear from anyone who has increased sugar and seen improvements in blood sugar control.
Damage to the pancreas comes mostly from free radical damage, free fatty acids, and other factors. Sugar may even regenerate beta cells in the pancreas, and seems to actually have a protective effect over the damage that pufa does.
~Ray Peat
Matt, greatly appreciate the reassuring literature from Ray that sugar is protective. Intellectually it makes sense but emotionally there is much resistance especially when you are constantly faced with high blood glucose readings. I am working on optimising my OJ with gelatin and salt and have started adding bicarb, I am recovering from physical breakdown of my body brought on by years of stress and eating low carb & avoiding sugar all my life. My experienced with sugar since my teens was that is was a no-no for me, but that may have been due to mineral depletion issues. Eating sugar for me was like being on speed. Completely opposite to my later years. The inactivity of not being able to walk or do any physical activity for longer than a year has resulted in significant muscle loss and fat accumulation. The sugar certainly makes me feel stronger in that I can imagine myself exercising and I am so happy I can walk now without pain and can even run up and down stairs. YEAH!! Something I though I might never be able to do again. These are baby steps that I am taking, but once your body breaks you are less inclined to push it beyond its capacity.
I guess everyone has heard the story of William Donald Kelley as told by Nicholas Gonzalez. Kelley refused to have his tumor removed and was able to observe that it increased in size when he ate sweets and decreased when he didn’t. Kelley was a sugar addict and was constantly eating candy bars. I know candy bars are hugely different to OJ, but it is stories like this that makes me feel uncomfortable about sugar.
What I am starting to understand is that I need to avoid all fats including SFAs. This is doing my head in because after years of avoiding fats like the plague, I introduced them back into my diet after reading Weston Price literature . I have always tried to avoid PUFA’s due to their immune lowering and unstable nature but introduced coconut and the more saturated fats back into the diet. I just read palmitate is cytotoxic irrespective of glucose concentration and that SFA reduces beta cell mass and increase in FAs induces beta cell dysfunction and death. Citation: Hellemans KH, Hannaert J-C, Denys B, Steffensen KR, Raemdonck C, et al. (2009) Susceptibility of Pancreatic Beta Cells to Fatty Acids Is Regulated by LXR/PPAR?-Dependent Stearoyl-Coenzyme A Desaturase. PLoS ONE 4(9): e7266. doi:10.1371/journal.pone.0007266
I know Peat states SFAs are protective in comparison to PUFAs which I have always advocated and that coconut oil will protect against PUFAs. Maybe it would be prudent for those of us that have insulin resistant issues to avoid fats or keep them as low as possible.
I would still like to know from people that are battling with this issue and whether they have been successful in restoring, halting or reversing their pancreatic function.
Peat advocates increasing blood glucose levels and I guess if we have all those protective factors in place there will be no or minimal damage to pancreas. I was interested to know from other people’s experience what their blood glucose levels look like over the course of the day. What levels should we be aiming for. What metabolite would be worth tracking in conjunction with clearance of blood glucose that gives some idea that fatty acid breakdown products are not causing damage to pancreas. Would a fatty acid profile give this information? Oxidative stress markers? Perhaps concentration of nonesterified fatty acids? I know you guys use temperature and pulse but I was looking more specifically at those FAs that cause the most damage so that I can satisfy myself that I am heading in the right direction. I hate taking stabs in the dark and the literature just does my head in as there is so much disagreement, egos and invested interests to contend with.
Sorry for rambling on and again thanks for your help and the space to post.
You need to let your metabolic feedback lead the way. There are lots of ways to starve blood sugar down temporary, which is what guides some people to do very counterproductive things when it comes to managing their blood sugar. You want to feel more energy, see pulse and temps up, hair and nails growing faster, skin moister, sleep deeper, mood brighter, etc. etc. etc. And then wait for that blood sugar to follow suit, even if it gets “worse” initially.
I think the diet can be lower in fats, but shouldn’t be ridiculously and unsustainably fat-free. Saturated fats are definitely better than PUFA, but carbs are better than both. As long as there is a strong carbohydrate emphasis I think you’re doing all a person realistically could do to attempt to restore lost function.
Matt what is freaking me out is that my blood glucose feedback loop is not working and glucose control is a tightly regulated mechanism. To keep cortisol down in my situation would required me to divorce my family and live a hermit existence. I thought sugar would do the trick in signalling my body out of the “fight flight” groove that it seems to be stuck in. If I have shunned sugar practically all my life except for carbs from fruit, vegetables and grains and now I have subjected my system to all this sugar, perhaps I overloaded my glucogenic enzymes. I have never drank fruit juices in my entire life, but I must say that my recent experiment with OJ has done wonders as I am able to walk without any pain. But I think adding the sugar (refined) has probably depleted cofactors magnesium, zinc etc., even though I have been eating seafood and liver. I have always struggled with my zinc levels. My heavy emphasis on calcium would have also displaced these two cofactors. My energy levels have been great, no longer waking up in the middle of the night and sleeping like a baby, even though I still don’t sleep enough. My moods were great until I checked my blood glucose levels and they have sent me into a spin. I have decided to track muscle mass : % fat with BG levels and see how they correlate. I probably refueled glycogen stores ages ago and now all cells are stuffed and are not permitting any more glucose. The fact that I have been sedentary for so long has resulted in storing too much fat which adds to insulin resistance. The body is not wasteful and if muscles are not used they are broken down. Muscles in the thigh are the largest, so rebuilding these will greatly aid glucose clearance. The body is not wasteful, it expend energy in maintaining muscle mass if they are not required to do work. The only way I know how to shift the weight is by restricting carbs and building muscles again.
In reading other people’s experiences on your site, saddens me knowing that others have made similar mistakes in the belief that self acclaimed gurus have the answers for us. With all my knowledge, I thought that I should have known better. Maybe, I needed to experience my physical breakdown in order to rid myself of hubris and experience pain and physical limitation in order to understand regeneration at a deeper level.
It is interesting that men do better with the high sugar than women. Sugar completely transformed my husband in the way Ray Peat’s physical appearance has changed. My husband thrives on sugar, he is able to put on weight. You need to imagine what Mick Jagger would look like if his face filled out more and his skinny body filled out. I have tried to feed him high fat, high carbs, loads of calories – nothing worked, he just burns it off while he sleeps and I just stack it on. Like me he believed sugar was taboo. Well who would have thought, his body was starving for sugar. The tinea on his feet which I could write a book about,completely disappeared. Who is going to believe sugar could get rid of tinea? We both have scientific backgrounds and boy have we tried some pretty high tech treatments on that tinea. Nothing worked – but sugar did. It’s disappointing that sugar for me is causing so much grief. Ray Peat deserves the genius status for just knowing this. Just imagine how many lotions and potions are out there for fungal infections and tinea. That’s right don’t feed candida sugar – how long have we believed this furphy?
Over the years of extreme dieting I’ve done (mainly GAPS and WAPF-ish) I have read over and over that cane sugar robs the body of B vitamins. That it is an “anti-nutrient”. Does anyone know if there is any truth to this? I mean, Matt and Chris, you say not to go eating a lot of plain white sugar, why???????? Chris, why do you use coconut sugar instead of white sugar??? I really NEED to know!
Hard to say exactly, especially for longterm outcomes. Two possibilities are this:
1) Pure white sugar is devoid of any nutrients, so you easily meet caloric requirements (and plenty of glucose for metabolism), yet you miss out on the micronutrients for the bigger picture, such as B vitamins.
2) Pure white sugar, just like pure coconut oil, boosts metabolism, which in turn increases your body’s *need* for the B vitamins.
As for raw cane sugar? I suppose that the traces of molasses, which gives it a golden color, contains some vitamins and minerals. I don’t think it’s too significant though.
Hey Matt, I love your blog and style more and more everyday. :) We’re doing a Nutrition Myth Busting radio show starting today and sugar is our first subject. I’m going to credit you for my re-education in the sugar department….and mainly for helping me gain BALANCE. Thanks, dude. I hope you’re well (and well fed.)
Victoria
Haha. No problem zinc lady. Love ya. Good luck with the radio show!
This blog was… how do you say it? Relevant!! Finally I’ve found something that helped me.
Thank you!