This is a long video, but perhaps the most professionally-done presentation on dietary evil #1 ever made. This is why I don’t focus on negligible health diversions like “eat organic” or “eat grassfed beef for the extra .5 gram of omega 3” or spend much time debating the value of potatoes vs. rice, or pork vs. chicken, or how much water is healthy, or how much salt is too much salt. All other health information is superflous and distracting. There are followers of Mercola more concerned about cell phones than fructose for Christ’s sake.
I endorse this video almost in full. I promise it is worth your time to watch it. Plus, it’s always good to hear a message from multiple sources, and this m’fer can talk.
Someone just emailed me this video recently and I loved it. It's definitely long, but it's definitely worth the time it takes to watch it.
You just don't run across this kind of information very much in the media, so it was very refreshing to hear someone in the medical profession talking about the evils of fructose.
Thanks sista. I agree.
Matt,
..since you mentioned it off-hand maybe it's not ENTIRELY too off topic; but do you have a general opinion on salt? I'm talking just old-fashioned table salt. Such a thing as too much iodine and it affecting thyroid function? Just curious as I generally take in an obscene amount as compared to your typical RDA. Like 400-500% more. Maybe worse.
I don't think it is that big of a deal, but it's doubtful that it's helping you out. The iodine is probably a non-issue. In fact, I'm researching Dr. David Brownstein later this year who uses iodine megadosing very effectively for the treatment of many health problems.
Right on. It's not the small stuff, it's the few big things like minimize fructose, get your macros right, eat minimally processed foods that really make the difference.
Hmmm, I just looked up High Fructose corn syrup on Wikipedia. It says they use an enzyme to convert glucose from ordinary corn syrup to fructose, that ordinary corn syrup is nearly 100% glucose.
Does that mean I should get some Karo for sweetening my tea or lemonade? For making desserts?
Maybe someone needs to come out with a line of bakery goods using palm and coconut oils for fat and plain old corn syrup for sweet…
i'd love to know about corn syrup as glucose, too.
also, matt what do you think of the fiber issue he brought up in the video? he says fiber is a necessary nutrient and that the gov't doesn't want us to know that. that humans used to eat 300-400g fiber a day and now we get around 12g.
oh man, so i just finished the video and i am so totally cutting out the beers! not that i drink that many, maybe once or twice a week, and really i only just started to like it like two months ago (had never had one until then) but if it is the same as drinking a coke?! then forget it!
so how do we convince people, particularly the ones we live with that sugar is evil? the people who can't have coffee without it, or have to have the so called healthy soft drinks with real cane sugar in them, or the ice cream etc. do you know people who say life isn't worth living if they can't have their treats? and these aren't once a month or only special occasion treats, they are everyday or every week.
so i am guessing that the "healthy" sweetners like honey or rapadura are just as bad. am i right?
Great video. Very comprehensive. It's about time someone started trying to 'recruit' us.
And thanks for the Facebook add.
Carl M, all the Karo that I've seen is corn syrup mixed with HFCS.
I could use some help/advice my soon to be 9 y/o daughter told me she thinks she's fat because some kid on the bus said she looked pregnant. Now my daughter isn't fat (she does have a bit of a tummy which is so common in girls that age these days), I'm assuming Matt would say she's on her way to insulin resistance. But here's the thing what do I do? I'm already a food nazi at home, my girls rarely have sugar here, but out–that's another thing entirely. The school lunches are terrible and I cringe at the thought of her eating that crap and at every event she goes to their filling her full of HFCS and other things we don't eat. At my youngest's pre-school, one of the approved snacks by our state regulatory agency is pop tarts! How do I help my kids without them hating me and having them go off the deep end when they've got more control? Sometimes not giving them the junk just makes it more desirable, and it's everywhere and everyone else sees it as no big deal! Help! -Sarah
@Mike: bummed to hear that. Have never bought Karo. Was planning to check it out tomorrow. Since the brand goes back to the early 1900s, I had hope…
I just looked at the Karo web site. Their "light" syrup is just corn syrup. Their pancake syrup has high fructose corn syrup in it.
http://www.karosyrup.com/products.html
That said, Karo Light has 10g of sugars out of 30g of total carbohydrates, so it has significant starch.
I have a bottle of Karo Light corn syrup in my cabinet (purchased within the past year) and it is made from Light Corn Syrup, HFCS, Salt and Vanilla. 31g CHO, 12g Sugar.
I think I linked to this before on your blog, Matt, when the topic turned to fructose several months ago, but there's an interesting interview from 2007 with Lustig on the Australian ABC national radio program, The Health Report, by Norman Swan here:
http://www.abc.net.au/rn/healthreport/stories/2007/1969924.htm
The Australian blogger David Gillespie (of Raisin Hell) has done lots of interesting exposes on the connections between Big Sugar, the medical industry and health bureaucracies, too. He has six kids, so he has a particular concern for the way sugar is relentlessly pushed on kids, in and out of school.
Something I'd like to know a lot more about is the social justice dimension of our modern dietary/metabolic nightmares. Given the known connections between cortisol, central obesity and socially mediated stress, I've been wondering if metabolic vulnerability to the effects of fructose increases the further you go down the socioeconomic hierachy to any significant degree.
The increasing numbers of people sliding, or fearing a slide, down the social ladder (or just trying to cope with life at or near the bottom, period) since the financial crisis, for example, are presumably that much more likely to look for psychotropic stress solutions like a nice comforting overdose of refined carbs to help stoke up the dopamine – and their restricted food budgets will obviously tend to encourage ingestion of cheap processed crap – while at the same time they're also presumably more vulnerable to fructose's negative metabolic consequences because of their chronically elevated cortisol.
Anyway, all that be what it may (or may not), I've got a lot from hearing of your fructose researches. Look forward to hearing more from you on cortisol, too.
@Sarah – speaking of stress, the current situation for parents aware of the dangers of fructose et al. and feeling powerless to prevent the ignorant and/or vested interests in industry, academia and government from continuing to shore up the fructose-fuelled status quo is guaranteed not to be good for cortisol levels.
David Gillespie's wife btw has come up with a number of sweet treats using powdered glucose apparently. That doesn't go to the heart of your concern of course, which is what to do with the stuff pushed on your kids outside of home. David has been taking the fight to big sugar and government, getting himself a public airing through interviews and public talks, blogging, etc, at all and any opportunity it seems. Guess that and more is what it's going to take to push for change from the grass roots up.
Wish I had some answers for what we do in the meantime, however, when the kids are surrounded by easy options for the next fructose fix.
Well despite all the negative press (my 'media' exposure is mostly the paleo blogspehre shit), I'm not convinced that either fructose or sucrose is unhealthy. I'm not convinced it's healthy either. I do know it's no where in the middle–it's either really fucking bad or pretty good.
I'm eating a shitton of sugar. About a Haagan Dasz a day. I'm trying to add plain sugar to my coffee, but find it difficult to get over the taste. It was hard enough for me to add cream to it.
I spent a few months on low carb, a few weeks on an almost ketogenic diet, 2 weeks on the milk diet, and a few months on a fructose-free HED. I don't know how my sugar experiment will end, but right now I feel better than every other experiment, excluding, of course, the first few weeks of paleo/low carb. Low carb eventually made me feel dumb (I noticed I couldn't win at chess while 'fasting'). Milk diet made me feel fine, but there weren't any major improvements (I didn't grow wings or claws) , and it was annoying to buy all the milk, lug it around, and I got bored. The HED initially made me feel great after low carb, but when I really tried to pound down the starch I had the constant thirst associated with diabetes. That thirst was one of the reasons I initially went low carb. When I'm eating plenty of sugar, I don't have that thirst. I also feel smarter.
Sometimes I really hate reading personal health histories. The carb counts are particularly annoying, as are the vague phrasings and names of health fads. Hope this wasn't such a post. It probably was. Fuck it. Basically I've restricted sugar for a long time and now I'm eating a lot more than I ever have. I feel fine. Maybe I'll grow an obese liver in a month. Like Morgan Spurlock. We can only hope, although we may never know.
haha… drinking a beer is not the same as drinking a coke… haha… thats crazy talk.
troy
yeh i loved this video, when it came out i sent it to a number of friends.
So last nigth i did a two hour post prandial glucose test and came out at 96 which seemed OK and this morning at 6.30 I did my first fasted glucose test and tested at 104 this was pretty upsetting :( just 1 minute before i had had a glass of water and my thyroid tablet so i don't think that could have affecetd it. My last two fasted levels from a blood test were 96 and 100.
I recently tried a "sugar experiment" for about three weeks. I drank plenty of orange juice and ate sweet fruits. I also ate enjoyed consuming a pint of Haagen Dazs ice cream every few days.
The only starches I ate were from yams (i.e. sweet potatoes) and potatoes. I also consumed bone broth and ate some gelatin (eck!). Note that my overall protein stayed about the same; around 120 grams day.
This experiment was, in most respects, an utter failure. Here is why:
By the second week, my cravings for junk foods (such as fried donuts, etc), which had vanished with HED, reappeared in spades. Also, my interest in coffee and alcohol increased. In short, there was an increase in addictive behavior, or more precisely, an increase in impulse toward addictive behavior.
Although I did not give in to these cravings, and my overall calorie consumption actually decreased by about 200 calories per day, my weight increased by about 3 pounds- and it was probably all fat. This is a sign that this experiment had an adverse influence on my metabolism.
Moreover, I became more lethargic and less energetic, and bowel movements decreased from 3 to only 2 per day- another sign that my hormones, i.e. metabolism, were adversely effected.
Also, I had two tension headaches- one each for weeks two and three- eating this way. It is noteworthy that I rarely get tension headaches, and NEVER get them while eating HED.
I do not even remotely have a tendency to have a puffy face, or to put fat on my face, but I noticed that my face looked a little less lean by the end of the third week.
However, it wasn't all bad. My mood was actually pretty decent despite having less energy. One might say that that I was a jolly, lazy, sugar muncher.
I've said it before and I'll say it again: The maximum starch to sugar ratio varies from person to person. I do best, it seems, when the ratio is between 5:1 and 12:1.
I'll repeat this experiment again sometime, but probably with nutritive simple sugars only, and see if it makes a difference. On the other hand, for this experiment, refined sugar, (from ice cream) probably represented only about 12% of average calories.
For now, I will continue to eat HED and enjoy good health and energy. It took about two weeks or so of HED to fully recover from my sugar experiment.
I wish not agree on it. I regard as polite post. Especially the title-deed attracted me to study the sound story.
Lustig makes the mistake of talking about sugars and alcohol in isolation as if they have a single, definitive effect on the body non-dependent on anything else. I think it's a mistake to view anything regarding metabolism and physiology this way…
Peter at Hyperlipid did two great posts recently on corn oil and fish oil combined with a high fructose/alcohol diet. The data seemed to imply that polyunsaturated fat (both omega-6 and -3) is the key to giving yourself liver damage. Fructose or alcohol alone won't do it. And saturated fat protects against it, to a point where marginal amounts of PUFA are neutralized. (Ray Peat has discussed this before, comparing the action of saturated fat to that of Vitamin E, in that it acts as an antioxidant and breaks the chain reaction of lipid oxidation.)
Peter came to the conclusion in his post that you could eat a very high-fructose/alcohol diet and no PUFA and probably be fine or more reasonably try to limit your fructose to the degree that you expect to consume PUFA. Personally I am fine eating a decent amount of sugar with the amount of PUFA I get in dairy and ruminant meat…
If Lustig wanted to really cement his case he ought to find someone NOT consuming gallons of seed oil in addition to nuts, oily fish, etc. and then see how their liver does with some sugar in the diet.
Good post Owen!
I haven't watched the video yet but I don't think that you can blame the frcutose/succrose for everything.
There were and are a few healthy cultures who eat a decent amount of sugar every day. The kitava for example eat about 400g of fruit every(!) day. That's like 500-600ml of coke.
I don't think that even daily consum of fructose in form of succrose from for example fresh fruits will do any harm to a healthy person
Team Smith –
Hundreds of grams of fiber is dumb, fiber is not an essential nutrient, but if you eat a lot glucose, you better have a lot of fiber to go with it.
Getting people to cut sugar out is a key, that's why I stress eating well, sleeping well, and not overexercising too much – as those have the most anti-craving effects of any measures we can take on that front.
Sarah – If you find the answer, let us know. The only thing you can do is to try to feed them really well – lots of meat, vegetables, and unrefined starch. It's always been known that the better a child is fed, the lower the cravings for sugary junk.
Carl – Straight glucose is probably much better, although totally devoid of nutrients, so I'm defintely not ready to tell everyone to pound corn syrup. There's no doubt that pure glucose in place of white sugar and HFCS would be a big help. But that won't happen. Why? That's higher glycemic. The mainstream and even low-carb anti-mainstreamists all conclude that a diet should be low-glycemic and would favor crystalline fructose above all else. Oops.
DML –
That has been my experience time and time again. Exactly. Even on HED, I have only gained weight in 2 distinct 3-5 day windows while traveling. The first round included sugar, beer, white flour, and vegetable oil.
The second round included even more sugar and white flour but with less vegetable oil and no beer. All 12 pounds that I've gained above my normal weight in the last 2 1/2 months on HED came during those two short windows.
D-
Lusting basically makes the point that you can't necessarily feel it. The negative consequences take a really long time. I found after low-carb as well that ANY carbohydrate was better than being on low-carb. There is also a strong possibility that there is a digestive connection. With damaged intestinal villi and no ability to break down polysaccharides, simple sugars can be preferable to starches. I think this may be the primary cause of the divergence between the pro-sugar crowd and the pro-starch crowd. I really do.
Owen –
I agree that vegetable oil is a definite factor. I have no love for it either and always try to make a point that ruminant, dairy, and coconut fats are the most superior forms of fats due to high ratio of saturates to other fats. There's just no question that vegetable oils are involved. Still, as Ludwig's graph showed, obesity rates remained constant until 1975, and we know what the big dietary change that occurred then was.
Jannis-
Lustig does at least address that there are natural fructose antidotes in whole food sources of it like fruit. I also believe that HFCS and crystalline fructose are not just "the same" as sucrose. Free fructose occurs only in those two substances and bound fructose is found everywhere else. That makes a difference. Still, the data on juice consumption and obesity rates is very clear and very statistically significant.
Great video but..I cannot believe he doesn't tell his patients to stop EATING fructose. He said he tells them not to drink anything sweet. But you can still consume a lot of fructose simply by eating a standard American diet(i.e. go-gurt, granola bars, cereal) sans soda or juice. I really don't get it. And so many people drink diet soda now(kids included) that his message seems almost out of touch with the modern diet. I don't think soda is the main issue.
Well I think he does the same thing as the people who created the studies which are apparently showing a link between fat consumption and CVD.
He takes sugar consumption and the increase of obesity which seem to go hand in hand and then says "It's sugar-period! without acknowledging the other factors suchs as Pufas, toxins etc.
And what's with the afro american women study? It showed that there is a connection between the consumption of soft drinks and diabetis II but not between d. II and orange juice and grapefruit juice.
And yet he says "succrose is poison" no matter where it comes from. its poison.
I ain't no big sugar fan too but this guy is to close-minded.
And the question remains: How come all these fruit eating polynesians and melanesians aren't obese and have better HDL/LDL than we do?
Jannis-
Good critique, but polynesians/ melanesians certainly don't consume 25% of their calories as HFCS, another large portion as white flour, and another 20% or so as vegetable oil. They get more nutrients, eat no refined grains, and no solvent-extracted vegetable oils or unnatural trans fats. That's the main diffence, which is why those are the main focus areas of 180DegreeHealth.
Summer-
I do think it's a quantity issue, but I also think it's important to deactivate the fructokinase enzymes that he talks about by having complete sugar abstinence for a period of several weeks to several months. That's helped me immeasurably, and I know I could return to small amounts of sweets here and there with no problems.
Sarah,
I know what you mean about the schools being major sugar-pushers. And my kids are old enough for sleepovers and I never fail to be shocked at what other families feed them. UGH.
My good news is that DesMaison's "Little Sugar Addicts" has helped me wean my kids from sugar (not 100% of course) — it's a great book because it focuses on feeding to reduce cravings instead of just going all Nazi and cutting it out all at once.
One turning point was when the kids had been off sugar for maybe 4-5 days, and then wanted pancakes and maple syrup. I'm not saying no to sugar at home, just using up what we have and not buying more. Well, within an hour after that meal they were fighting, whining, crying over nothing. I told them, as easygoing as I could muster, to notice how they felt after eating sugar. They said yeah, it feels really good and then…bad.
The only way we can get our kids on board is for them to make the connection between what they eat and how they feel. If it's all about Evil Mom denying them pleasure, they'll be sneaking the Snickers at every opportunity.
I've written the school but don't expect much there, and obviously what they eat at other houses I can't control. But I figure home habits count for a lot.
Also I'm going to have my 11 yo read "Sugar Blues". If you've got littles, you can control pretty much what they eat, even if it means sending in your own snacks to school. When they get older, it's pretty impossible to do that, but at least they're old enough to be able to understand some of what we talk about here.
Before hanging out with Matt, I had been focused on eating as little processed food as possible, but I was letting in plenty of sugar (look, dark chocolate with no HFCS! Bring it on!). So my kids were serious junkies. I'm really encourages by how well the DesMaisons suggestions have worked.
Matt,
exactely that is my point. That sugar in an otherwise healthy diet is not the devil himself. But this guy marks sugar as a poison.
Sugar can of course be a part of the metabolic syndrom and CVD but it's not the only reason. I don't think it's the main reason either.
But sure you are right, that the amount of sugar and the way how we consume and process it is a big problem.
But that shouldn't make us think that sugar is the only problem we have.
And in natural forms as fruits i don't think succrose is a problem for healthy people with little pufas consum and a good metabolism.
Otherwise sugar ray would be dead by now.
Matt,
What I intended to communicate is that his premise is that soda is the main source of fructose for most people and therefore if you eliminate soda the problem is solved. But I would argue that that is just not the case. I actually only know 1-2 people who drink soda everyday. But almost everyone I know eats sweetened cereal for breakfast and has a granola bar for a mid-morning snack. It seems to me that there is a little bit of fat prejudice in his theory. He is assuming that all fat people drink soda and eat candy bars. This simply is not the case. Most people, I would argue are very conscious of their diet but they are being told that sweetened cereal and smoothies are healthy. The fructose is not as blatant as he is assuming.
Jannis –
There are lots of people eating high-PUFA and high-sugar diets living to be Peat's age in good health, especially in that generation compared to what we're going to see in the next several generations.
Don't put all your eggs into the Peat basket. He is fundamentally incorrect about many basic biochemical principles – such as fructose lowering appetite because it doesn't raise insulin when it increases appetite for that very reason.
But if you're not a biochemist you have no choice but to accept Peat's dogmas because it is often so over everyone's head.
But still, I maintain that the 2 greatest dietary evils are veggie oils and fructose, particularly nutrient-free fructose. These are found in all packaged, processed, and fast foods – marketed as health food (cereal, snack bars) or not. So the real take home message, that is even simpler, is, and has always been:
"Don't eat packaged and processed food."
I just watched the final part of this docu. If i get it right his main point is that fructose in the liver is metabolized the same way as fat and then when it is released to the blood stream causes insulin resistance.
Well if that were right and fructose really caused all this problems than a high fat diet (sat. or unsat) would cause exactely the same problems. Then fat is the same "poison" as fructose.
We all know that isn't the case. But following his logic we get there…
Does anybody know to what kind of fat exactely fructose is formed by the liver?
That's part of his deal. Fructose forms a triglyceride molecule and becomes free fatty acids. There has always been the belief that free fatty acids compete with glucose getting into cells, causing transient insulin resistance. How true this is remains to be seen – and/or what effect raising the metabolism has on burning those fatty acids.
But it's well known that eating a very high fat diet will increase insulin resistance, which is why weight loss diets based on high fat intake are always coupled with low-carb intake.
But again, this probably has more to do with leptin, cortisol, and other hormones than simply putting both fuels in the tank at the same time – or milk would make babies diabetic.
My guess is that increasing leptin and/or overcoming leptin resistance via a low-fructose diet would raise the metabolism enough to spark greater lipolysis and eliminate any problems stemming from triglyceride formation in the liver or eating the fat/starch combo.
Matt,
you are totally right about your last sentence and all the other stuff. But I will not believe that sugar per se is a "poison"
My observations and even those of WAP show the opposite.
And i am not pulling all my eggs into peat's basket. My eggs are all lying safe and secure in the basket of Mr.Price!
I just find some things of what Peat has to say kinda interessting.
As regards the biochemestry I can't join in because I haven't studied it.
There is some strong indication that leptin controls the body temperature/metabolism. If it is not signaling correctly, the body acts as if it is in a famine – increasing hunger and lowering metabolism. Therefore, only fructose could achieve this effect, but not because of action in the liver per se but due to its effects on leptin and the creation of leptin resistance.
But Price did show refined sugar to be a poison, as did Cleave, as did Burkitt, as did Yudkin, as did Page. I don't think Lustig is making the call that fructose in fruit is a poison at all. Nor would any of the above authors.
In fact, those authors have proven that refined carbohydrates are a poison to such an extent that the question is no longer what causes most disease, but why do refined carbohdyrates cause most disease?
Lustig's argument is that "it is a quantity issue." Yudkin made the same argument. Richard J. Johnson would agree as well. He still allows 30-something grams of sugar per day in the diet.
I just saw the film and he says "succrose in every form is a poison"
imo that includes fruits. Anyway i think i agree with you that his message basically is right!
But while we are on it. How come that i yesterday ate 100g of potato starch with 40-50 of sat. fat from cocoout oil, butter and milk combined with 150g of meat and have a blood sugar of 89 after 1 hour?
Several studies show that sat. fat causes temporary insulin resistance. Therefore it should take my body hours to reach such a blood sugar level.
Is that really all about leptines and a raised metabolism?
That's precisely what I'm trying to answer. What I know, from my experiments, is that the more non-fructose calories I ate, even when combining tons of saturated fat and starch together, the beter my insulin sensitivity became. A meal like that won't even get my blood glucose over 80 mg/dl now. This is thought to be almost physiologically impossible. It is glucose metabolism perfection, where my body is in glucose balance and complete homeostasis 24-7 because of it.
Based on what I know of leptin and how it's effective by 1) overfeeding and 2) fructose
It could have a lot to do with leptin, thought to be one key "master" hormone.
You can buy powdered dextrose which is just glucose. I just ordered some from Amazon after watching this video.
Matt
Most fruit actually do contain a fair bit of free fructose, at least according to this nutritional database:
http://www.fineli.fi/food.php?foodid=11045&lang=en
I've heard that what matters for digestibility isn't so much whether the fructose is bound or not, but the ratio betweeen fructose and glucose. Sucrose would be better since it always comes 50:50, but you could supposedly have the same effect if only the amount of free glucose equals the fructose.
But fruit is still bound to proteins, fiber, and other elements. It is not completely stripped down to isolation.
Matt,
Im certainly looking forward to the day you solve this riddle.
At the moment I'm just glad to know that it works. It will be even better when i know how it does.
Really hope you will get more and more followers and an ever bigger internet appearance.
This whole thing is definitely to good for just a few people.
"But fruit is still bound to proteins, fiber, and other elements. It is not completely stripped down to isolation."
Ah… Still though, is the issue how fructose is chemically bound to other constituents in foods containing sugar, or is it with consuming fructose without providing enough of the nutrients required for their proper metabolism?
Thanks Jannis. It's going to get there. It will just take time. The blog saw a 455% increase in traffic in 09 vs. 08. It should be no problem pulling that off again in 2010. The blog alone has already seen 20,000 pageviews this month already, better than any previous month on 180, and it's only the 13th!
Collden –
It's probably a matter of both. As was mentioned in 180 Diabetes, consuming a huge quantity of any carbohydrates that have been stripped of chromium while having deficiencies in iodine, vitamin D, and so many other common nutrients – can induce insulin resistance.
Wow congratulations!
Seems you are on a good way!
Btw: I just read ray peat's new article about the influence of different aminos in dietary protein, gelatin and it's effect on the human body.
What ever you might think about his sugar theories, this one is really worth reading. Give it a try!
Good night for today! It's gettin late in europe ;)
i also just read peat's new article… very informative. This whole discussion has also been informative.
troy
By the way, I don't know if anyone saw this http://freetheanimal.com/2010/01/paleo-diet-problems-big-problems.html
Interesting slides about mixed meals effect on blood glucose. here
As a side note on Peat, I consumed about 8-16 grams of gelatin for about a week, and noticed that it actually made me more anxious and sleep less soundly at night.
You have to test out how foods work for you!
I just bought a bottle of Karo Original Light Corn Syrup. The ingredients read:
corn syrup, salt, vanilla
This was purchased in eastern North Carolina. They might be selling a different formula in other markets.
Now whether foods/beverages taste good sweetened with Karo is another issue entirely. Have never used the stuff before. (Probably had in in pecan pie and other desserts made by others.)
My local bodybuilder oriented vitamin shop is going to add dextrose to its next order from Now, so I'll give that a try soon as well.
Carl, you are one fine guinea pig amigo!
Even if we don't know why, if what we know for sure is that the refinement of foods (into flour, sugar, canola oil etc) is what causes health problems, why would dextrose or corn syrup not do the same?
Kirk, I so agree with your query. For me the safest thing is to avoid refined foods as much as possible.
Fasting blood glucose down to 91 this morning so that was very reassuring after yesterday's high :)
Very glad you are getting more traffic on the site. I have been mentioning you on other forums i visit, i think it is one of the best ways to spread the message.
I remembered I had another question. What do you all think about snacking? ie could it be one provoking factor in leptin and insulin resistance. I have a habit of snacking in the evening, nuts, carrots etc
One thing about the fructose in fruit issue.
Personally I think that fruits SHOULD not be harmful, because of the protein, fiber, vitamins etc.
But on the other hand, I believe that the fructose content of fruit could very well be a problem.
When you look at todays fruit, doesn't really matter which kind, berries, apples, bananas, they are mostly nothing like the fruit our ancestors ate. They are domesticated to be sweeter and have a higher sugar content, while at the same tme, they probably lost quite some nutrient value throughout the cultivating process.
Because of this, I think it might very well be possible, that todays fruit aren't as healthy anymore. Now, i don't wanna say that fruit by itself is unhealthy, I just think that they actually were much more helathy some time ago.
Matt, what's your stance on corn? I've been skeptical of it since I learned it's pretty much completely genetically modified. The original corn was in mexico the size of a pinky iirc.
Kirk, read An Edible History of Humanity by Tom Standange and you'll realize that all food is genetically modified, just from the process of agriculture. Once you start culitivating or breeding something purposely, plant or animal, you modify it genetically.
Hi Matt and all, I'm wondering if there is just a general blog section on this site? Or do you have like a yahoo group set up?
I've been doing the Mercola metabolic typing diet for almost 3 weeks now. The first two weeks I lost 7 lbs, no cravings, and was grain free some days, and some days did eat potato and other grains, but only small amounts, and I work out every other day as I have been doing for the past 6 months. Anyways, yesterday I did feel a bit hungry and ate about 1/4 of an orange. Then for dinner I made korean beef (which has about 1 tablespoon sugar for 4 servings and is very yummy) with white basmati rice and ate some of that. Before going to bed I was having a mad craving for chocolate so I ate a piece of chocolate, about 10 gr. This morning when I weighed myself I was 2 whole lbs. heavier…what the heck! Is this just water retention from the soy sauce maybe or did I actually gain 2 lbs. It can be very discouraging. Anyways, even after losing the 7lbs so quickly I did not really see it in myself and my clothes did not fit me any differently.
I am starting today on what Matt suggested, the 25g carb and 25g protein and plenty of fat 3x a day. We'll see how that goes.
Thanks, Vida
"But it's well known that eating a very high fat diet will increase insulin resistance, which is why weight loss diets based on high fat intake are always coupled with low-carb intake."
Do you have any proof of this???
never heard of this happening from eat animal fats.
impossible actually.
http://hcgdietinfo.com/HCG-Weight-Loss-FAQ.htm
Anyone every hear of this hcg diet? Says you can lose 1-2 lbs per day of pure fat and that it resets your metabolism.
Vida
My guinea pig saga continues. Put some corn syrup in tea this morning and am trying it in some cocoa-water now. (OK, I know you are anti-caffeine, but try writing software without caffeine after being sleep-interrupted by a toddler…)
Subjective impression: much bigger kick from the caffeine. The glucose surge at least initially gives the caffeine an assist. (I had noticed in the past that sugar free caffeinated sodas are better for staying awake on the road, so maybe this is just the absence of fructose negating the caffeine.)
Karo is much less sweet than sugar. It takes a lot to offset the bitter of chocolate. Karo is only 1/3 sugar according to the label. The rest of the carbs are starch. So dextrose might be better for many recipes.
Nice work, Lustig. Thanks for posting that, Matt.
I wonder though — if HFCS is so similar in fructose/sucrose composition as table sugar, isn't it true that obesity rates have everything to do with the quantity of sugar consumed and not so much about whether it's HFCS or not?
Back when my kid was autistic, HFCS made him freak out like nothing else. Violent rages and a terrible mood for a week. At the time it was explained to me that something really nasty happened during the refining. I didn't research it further because at the time all my energy was going into making sure not a molecule of it passed his lips.
Sugar did not have the same effect.
Nell, Thanks for the advice on the book, I've read it and my kids are hard core sugar addict for sure which is interesting because we don't do sugar at home, I've even gone so far as to make homemade stevia sweetened ketchup! I started slowly, cutting out HFCS then I got rid of the other crap, I make everything from scratch now and we rarely have dessert, but my kids are offered sugar in some form or another everyday out side the house. I am glad to know I'm not the only one dealing with this, it's really upsetting to me to see how my oldest (9 y/0) is affected by sugar and how much she wants it given that her diet at home is so good. -Sarah
personally, i think kids just naturally gravitate towards sweet stuff and there really isn't much we can do about it. i have fed my son well since he started solids and he had no sugar whatsoever for at least 2 years, but he is becoming more aware of it and i guess only wants it when we are with others who have it or in a restaurant/store b/c i don't keep it at home. he has no idea what kind of "goodies" are out there. he doesn't even know what McD's is. but i have tried feeding him a really good meal before a party and he still wants the cake. i don't buy that "your kids will only want one bite b/c it will be too sweet for them if you feed them well at home." just doesn't happen here.
i am keeping my 4 yo home b/c we plan to homeschool him and one of the reasons is the food factor. but if we go to a party or anywhere there are sweets he always wants to try them and i used to offer him some other kind of "natural, healthy" treat in exchange, but we so rarely encounter the stuff these days that i usually let him have a very small amount. he loves fruit so he would take that any day and i think that is way better than something made with any type of sugar. i dread the day when he has his own money and can make his own decisions and then drive (yikes!) and get whatever he wants.
Hi Matt,
Don't know if it's too late to ask a question on this topic but…
I watched the video. Dr. Lustig seems to be saying table sugar and HFCS are metabolized in exactly the same way and have the same effects in the body. Does your research support that? Is there any difference? Because I've been avoiding HFCS at all costs, but using products such as mayo or ketchup that contain sugar as an ingredient, sparingly.
You mention stopping fructose for one month to turn off this enzyme. Why do we want to turn it off? What is the benefit if it is off? Do I also have to give up all fruit for one month then?
BTW, I've cut way back on sugar since prior posts, but have had a sweet treat here and there. I think it's been 2 days with close to zero sugar and I feel definite cravings for sweets.
My pregnancy is going well. I've found that seltzer or lemon-lime seltzer are much more tolerable than water. I am having much more sat fat and less sugar compared to my first pregnancy, hopefully enough to be making a difference to the little one. LOVE the Tom Kha Gai recipe!!!!
Team Smith: The sugar inundation at school is horrific – everything is supposed to be low fat and so instead they add sugar. It makes me really angry. I'm thinking of getting the little sugar addicts book for our family. I feel like an accomplice because I order snacks for our after school program and I can't do anything like fruit, cheese sticks, or milk due to storage considerations. I've been getting different kinds of potato chips, pretzels, and popcorn, with the occasional fruit bar (that's what I feel worst about).
I know a woman whose kids don't eat cake, don't like sweets. I asked her about it and she just shrugged – I should ask again and see if there is some secret I can share.
Hey Amanda,
Richard J. Johnson talks specifically about the reasons to turn off the fructokinase enzyme. Maybe that's a secondary positive, but maybe there is a direct connection. To do that, Johnson recommends 2 weeks with absolutely no fructose. 2 weeks sounds like an awfully short amount of time to me. The traditional candida diet of 60 days with no fructose is probably more effective. A happy medium is a month.
There's a huge difference between a little sugar and no sugar. I often go months without any fructose, and then eat quite a bit for a week or two, get tired of it, and then return to my normal diet with very little fructose.
I know fruit is a healthy and nutritious food, and I'm not paranoid about it – no one should be. But the bottom line is that it's tough to overcome a legitimate sugar problem, which many have, with lots of fruit. And when it comes to sweet tastes, a little makes you just want more. I think steering clear of it for an extended period of time completely is the best way to truly get over it. Have no cravings.
I posted a picture on my Facebook Wall from Whole Foods of their ingredients for Roasted Sweet Potatoes and Apples. It listed Corn Syrup AND High Fructose Corn Syrup in the ingredients. A nutrition/dietetics student from my university responded with "sugar is sugar is sugar" and that trace amounts of HFC are not big deal since all sugar is "bad" with only some metabolic differences between them, then applauded WF for listing the ingredients when other stores don't. I responded with a link to this blog with Lustig's video. She has not replied.
Ah, This is awesome! Puts to bed
some contradictions I've heard
I join. All above told the truth. Let's discuss this question. Here or in PM.
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I think that as long as it is taken in moderation, it is not too bad… Just like with anything, too much is not a good thing…