Alright, I’m bummed to be doing this “extreme” diet. I have no need to take such drastic measures, and to be honest, the last serious diet (2 weeks vegan) took a toll like no diet has in a long while. But it’s time to check it out, and with my girlfriend under the knife as I type this in a hospital lobby (jaw surgery – I’m very excited to write about some of the things the docs have said to her so far, like “wow, 98.6! We don’t see that very often”), it seems like the most appropriate time there will ever be to try a liquid-only diet. Poor Aurora’s gonna be on liquids-only for up to 12 weeks. Surely I can give milk 4.
Plus I was never breast fed. It’s never too late to be on a milk-only diet I guess.
Anyway, I’ll be blogging and vlogging about this adventure extensively. Check out the first video recorded yesterday, and be brainstorming some good names for me. Right now I’m leaning towards the FUCC Diet in honor of Colin Campbell – extreme animal protein hater. Open to other ideas though. We could just go with “The Milk Diet” but turn MILK into an acronym that slanders saturated fat haters somehow, or neolithic food bashers, or casein-o-phobes, or lactose slanderers, or what have you. Wish me luck.
Acually, pray that it sucks something awful, and that my conclusion will lean towards it not offering any advantages over eating a mixed, whole foods diet.
Also, some of you might have missed this last big round of videos that I have not, as of yet, embedded into a blog post. Enjoy these as well.
Oh, poor Matt, you sound so unmotivated. That's no way to start a milk diet. :P
Actually, for me personally, I found the milk diet incredibly freeing because I could completely give up my focus on food. That's something that's really hard for me to do. Yes, I had to keep milk close by all day long, but honestly for me this was easier than cooking, thinking about macronutrients, worrying about the choices I'm making. Obviously this is an individual sort of thing. It seems like you've really been able to give up overthinking food, but I'm not quite there yet. So for someone like me, the milk diet was a welcome break. Just one food, and I knew my body was nourished. It was really effortless in that respect. Honestly if it were practical for me, I'd probably do the milk diet several times per year just for kicks. Maybe someday, when I have a herd of milking goats… Then again, I live in the pristine foothills of the Appalachians, so if I get a herd of dairy goats I might be obligated to set up a raw milk mountain retreat. ;)
Nah, I'm just a big fan of having a negative outlook. Life is always pleasantly surprising when you remember to flood your psyche with skepticism. It's when you expect miracles and everything in life to go smoothly that life becomes a let down.
Doing the diet while your girlfriend is on a liquid diet is definitely the way to go. I'm on day 11 over here and still having to make delicious food for my husband and 4 kids. Even if my husband takes mercy on me and cooks, it smells amazing and he's a great cook. It is agony. It's a good thing I started seeing results right away.
Good luck!
I would love to do this diet, however, I only have access to 30Litres of milk every two weeks from my farmer. I wonder if I can bribe her in some way to let me have 2.5 times the milk for the month. LOL
Yeah. It'll be easy, and the timing is perfect. I'll see some big results too after eating really shitty over the past 3 weeks. I kinda rigged it that way, gaining some weight and lowering my body temperature prior to starting it by eating tons of sugar and white flour.
Hey Matt,
Good luck- after contacting you yesterday, I quit. Duck even the Milk Diet, I decided. I did a 36ish hour fast from Sunday around 10pm until 8am Tuesday, and started at it. I went through the ringer finding a source for grass fed raw milk in quantity, secured my first half week supply (7 gallons) and began in earnest. but I couldn't do it. I felt nauseous, had a little bit of fresh grapefruit as per McFadden's instructions, and just could not stand the taste any more after about a gallon. By 3pm, I decided there was no way. All day I kept thinking about food, about potatoes and eggs and sausage and rice, and decided that RRARF is mroe appropriate for me. Plus my partner is running a small CSA this year, and I couldn't stand the idea of not being able to try the first radish she picked Monday, or all the salad greens coming out.
One thing that's come of it is that now I think I'll have raw milk as part of my regular diet, as well as raw cream and yogurt and all the rest that I can make with the gallons of milk that I have in the fridge. This morning, we made raw milk ice cream with maple syrup and yolks from our chickens, and it's amazing.
I also learned that I seem to handle Jersey milk better than Holstein, despite McFadden's preference for the latter. I guess the A1/A2 thing makes a difference for me.
Again, Matt- good luck. Hope you learn something, and even if it's not exciting to you now, I don't think you'll likely dig yourself into any hole like the FUDA experiment.
Rob
PS- $18 bucks a gallon! I felt lucky to find mine for $5//gallon, but I didn't realize how lucky.
PPS- Connecticut on the East Coast and New Mexico also allow in store purchases of raw milk, I hear.
Do you think a one week milk diet will do anything?
Sounds like you made the right choice Rob. Send me a postcard with a potato on it.
Jason-
Sure it could. Just look at Elizabeth Walling's results. Her temps came up by like the 3rd day, and she noticed big changes in 23.
I wrapped up my milk diet at Day 12. It was just not practical for me to drive 3 hours each week to get my supply. Plus I was majorly craving a cheeseburger by about day 7.
On the positive side – even that short time seems to have made a HUGE impact on my dairy and seasonal allergies. I can eat sour cream and go outside without choking on mucus! It's really nice. I haven't needed an Allegra in a month. Also my BBT went up to a high of 98.6 F by day 4. They have since slowly fallen back to about 97.8 – 98.0, but I figure that's still pretty good.
I mostly enjoyed the actual milk drinking. Like you said Elizabeth, it's really nice not to have to think about what the next meal will be. Of course I still had to plan/cook for my husband and 3 boys, but for some reason it wasn't nearly as stressful as when I was thinking about what was optimal, nutritious, delicious, etc. for me to eat.
There was one small downside. I really think drinking all that lactose got me back on the sugar train, because within a few days of coming off it I was really craving me some sugar, esp. chocolate. Once I'm off the sugar I'm fine, but coming down off that horse is a sunnuva B.
I was also hoping I would be like Liz and lose a few pounds, but I think I actually put a few more on. Trying not to focus on that but it's really tough. My husband has had to give me several pep talks in the last week. Weird, huh? He has to convince me to keep eating lots of good food instead of reverting to starving myself. Talk about brainwashed.
when you crave chocolate your body needs greens. Just juice yourself up a nice little celery spinach apple orange juice. :)
Wondering how your ideas on cravings came about. Do you mean to tell me if I’m eating a ton of greens and I’m still craving chocolate I am still deficient in greens ? Do cravings work like that with other things such as when I’m craving some celery/spinach/appley-orangish drink should I just eat a chocolate bar ?
I was pretty certain they worked differently. since I recently posted something on my blog about them i’d love some insight.
Thanks Danyelle. My primary motivation to do the milk diet was all the authors "permanent sure thing" speak about overcoming allergies/asthma. My greatest lingering health problem has been pet allergies, which often induces asthma. I'm much better than I was a year ago, but not all the way over the fence yet. Hoping the leche will give me an extra push.
Danyell: Yes, I really enjoyed cooking for my family while I was on the milk diet. It was really strange. Once I wasn't cooking for myself I found my time in the kitchen to be far more pleasant.
About the weight thing: I think part of the reason I lost rather than gained is because I've already gained weight while recovering from dieting (a total of 20 lb gained, almost half of which was lean body mass). So if your body thinks you're short on lean mass I would think you're more likely to gain weight on the milk diet. I know especially for me, I dieted most heavily during the last several years in my late teens and early twenties, right when I'm supposed to be putting on bone mass. I think a lot of women do the same. And I think that really pushes the body to gain weight whenever possible to make up for it.
Elizabeth,
But that tendency to put on weight is reversible, right? Do you think? I have to hope so. The thing I struggle with the most in my head is that I've screwed myself so badly that my body will never feel "safe" again and let go of the extra fat.
Danyelle (sorry for the typo on your name in the last comment!):
My weight is very stable now. I can eat to my heart's content and not gain any more weight. However, getting the extra 10-12 lb of fat off my rear (literally) is another matter I am working on. ;)
@Matt,
Welcome to the world of the Milk Diet! It will be interesting to see how you fare. I have got a number of responses I will be posting on various blogs today/tomorrow to all the Milk Diet newbies who are/have attempted it. Some did good, some not so good, and some just didn't know what they were getting into and others really did need to do the full protocol, not some partial version of it.
Oh to have my own getaway health retreat in Thailand or Tahiti or someplace of that sort away from the long arm of the law, where I could apply this protocol (and others) full bore in a way that would make the old school healers of old (like Kneipp, Christopher, etc.) quite proud. And then have explicit detailed DVD's showing the "moderns" how to do it.
By the way, is your girlfriend going to be sipping on milk during her liquid diet?
My primary motivation to do the milk diet was all the authors "permanent sure thing" speak about overcoming allergies/asthma.
Yeah it usually does a great job in those areas, but nothing works 100% for everyone – nothing. :-)
@Elizabeth
Honestly if it were practical for me, I'd probably do the milk diet several times per year just for kicks.
That is exactly what I do, though not just for kicks, but for "beautification" purposes, both inside and out, LOL!
So if your body thinks you're short on lean mass I would think you're more likely to gain weight on the milk diet.
Yeah! You are now an official Milk-a-teer! Starting to grasp some of the nuances of milk "fasting" :-)
@Danyelle,
There was one small downside. I really think drinking all that lactose got me back on the sugar train, because within a few days of coming off it I was really craving me some sugar, esp. chocolate. Once I'm off the sugar I'm fine, but coming down off that horse is a sunnuva B.
Lactose doesn't normally do that. My guess is that with a few extra days you wouldn't have had such a response.
The thing I struggle with the most in my head is that I've screwed myself so badly that my body will never feel "safe" again and let go of the extra fat.
Yeah it will. Had you stayed on the Milk Diet long enough your lean mass/fat mass ratio would have balanced itself quite nicely.
Today is my 14th straight day on eight quarts of raw whole milk. Haven't started drinking my quota for the day though. My 15th day total on raw whole milk. And my 19th day overall on eight quarts of raw milk. The first few days I ate other food. My underarm body temperature upon waking up today is 97.2 as usual.
That should say 15th day total on raw whole milk alone.
I read through Bernarr MacFadden's book on milk, and while I don't think he expressly talks about thyroid, he does mention certain metabolism related diseases, and says the milk diet does wonders for them. But that it takes about four to six weeks. But I'm all in, no matter how long it takes. I'll let you know how it goes. And yes, Organic Pastures' raw butter is gnarly.
Hi Matt, I wanted to let you know, that you should call organic pastures directly (559-846-9732), and they can ship to you for less than you are buying at the store. Plus if you buy 10x quarts at a time, there is a discount.
Normally, I consider blogs a complete waste of time, but a few here and there are worthwhile. And about 3000 more comments from me and you'll be able to empathize with the pounding Michael Miles' site. Good jokes aside, Matt, why do you say you know that not everyone who consumes raw milk is healthy, and that it might not be miraculous? I thought dair-oids, as you said, is the most bioavailable food out there.
Normally, I consider blogs a complete waste of time, but a few here and there are worthwhile. And about 3000 more comments from me and you'll be able to empathize with the pounding Michael Miles' site.
LOL! Me (and the site) handled it just fine.
Good luck, Matt!
Wow, $9/half gallon! That's outrageous. Too bad you're not in Washington state, where you can find it in "alternative" grocery stores for about half that price.
Prost!
Gina
I was in California last month and found OP milk for $6/half gallon at a farmers market. You might also want to try Claravale Farm raw jersey milk while you're out there. It was probably the best milk I've ever tasted; I couldn't believe how much cream there was. It was liquid candy, really.
Good luck. We don't really have access to raw milk around here, although I probably wouldn't be willing to go long periods drinking only milk either way. I'm curious to see how things will turn out.
@Elizabeth
My weight is very stable now. I can eat to my heart's content and not gain any more weight. However, getting the extra 10-12 lb of fat off my rear (literally) is another matter I am working on. ;)
Just curious, does your husband think you need to lose any weight?
Holy smokes, and I thought we were getting ripped off @ $14/gallon. Sheesh. "Dangerous stuff". Cracks me up. Howsabout "My Illegal Leche/Lait Kick". Leche flows better.
Matt, you look nice and tanned now! Why is Aurora having surgery? For jaw re-alignment, like so many of us need? Is insurance paying? I've been told for 20 years to do it, but I've never had insurance that would cover it, and I figure I'm too old to bother now. Plus, since I went HED, I noticed the jaw pain is minimal. Whereas some days it used to hurt to smile at all… We're thinking of her and hoping she's ok!
I get it for about $5/gallon here in Thailand. And beef/dairy products are by far the most expensive foods here :)
Michael: LOL My husband is great and tends not to care much about my weight… plus he's way too smart to ever suggest I need to lose any. ;) That said, I don't think he'd care if I lost a little weight either, nor would he care if I kept it on. I tend to carry the weight well and I look healthy. But I miss my skinny jeans, lol. As far as losing weight goes, I know he only wants me to do so under healthy conditions. He was there with me through the worst of the dieting and I know he doesn't want to see than side of me again any more than I do.
Where's Chris Rosenfelt? He hasn't posted an update on his milk adventure in way over a week, and he sounded pretty down in his last one.
Considering what Michael "Milk Man" Miles has said here, I'm thinking about starting up my milk diet again. But for how long? I need a goal, but isn't 4 weeks a little long considering I just did almost 2 weeks a short time ago? My husband is worried (for my sake) that I'll gain more fat and freak out. I don't think I will, but I also thought that last time and went up a pants size.
"Plus I was never breast fed."
:( Oh, dear, this explains a lot.
I'm only on day three but I've already done some cheating. The last two nights I've eaten small dinners with my family. I haven't really craved dinner, but it's just easier this way. My son is really very much "monkey see monkey do" right now. Already my temps are up "97.5", "97.6", "97.8." I'm trying not too worked up, because it's only been three days and this could just be a normal fluxuation. If I get over 98 for more than 3 days, I'll know I'm getting somewhere. I'm drinking about 8 ounces of Kombucha twice a day to get some enzymes since I'm using lightly pasteurized, grass fed milk. $10 a gallon at my co-op, $7 after my discount.
My numerous health goals are: raise body temps; fix inflammation like plantar facitis, hemmorrhoids, sinus pain due to allergies; skin and scalp issues…All of these things have been improved on HED, but like matt I'm trying to do a big push to get over that hurdle.
I agree Liz, it's liberating not to have to worry about what to eat any more.
Elizabeth and Michael,
I think most guys don't really care if the girl is a little thick as long as she tries to be healthy. My girlfriend is in great shape, but she is worried that if she ever gained weight that I would be unattracted. The biggest problem for me wouldn't be if she gained a few pounds, it would be having to deal with her constant obsession and unhappiness over her weight. This would be a lot worse.
How do you feel about this Michael?
Cortisol elevation is associated with growth hormone elevation; in this context it is health-promoting.
The problem is chronic cortisol elevation due to chronic stress.
You are right in that severe calorie restriction, when experience for a long time, leads to a chronic increase in cortisol levels. Other stress hormones also increase.
The body senses the potential for starvation, and releases stress hormones to get us restless, moving; presumably to find food, in an evolutionary context.
The effect is not the same when weight loss takes place slowly, with plateaus.
The problem is that nobody wants to lose weight slowly. Everybody wants to lose several pounds of body fat per week, nonstop.
Our body will not agree with that.
"hen again, I live in the pristine foothills of the Appalachians, so if I get a herd of dairy goats I might be obligated to set up a raw milk mountain retreat. ;)"
Dude, you should SO do this. I literally daydream about going on a raw milk retreat.
Where's Chris Rosenfelt? He hasn't posted an update on his milk adventure in way over a week, and he sounded pretty down in his last one.
Death by lactose. Dun, dun, duuuunn!
:-P
No seriously, I think I wrote a comment from him not too long ago, but he really should get another video up!
Good point, Ned. I never thought of a plateau as a good thing, until now.
I had to stop the milk diet on day 21 cause my dairy farmer was not able to supply me with such huge quantities of milk anymore.
That being said, I really wasn't seeing any benefits to the milk diet in fact things were getting worse for me but then again since I didn't meet the minimum 4 weeks my experience really doesn't count. I'm definitely interested to see how Matt does on the milk diet and I just wanna say that I'm happy to be back on HED.
Jenny, I find it interesting you're doing your milk diet with lightly pasteurized milk. I was wondering what would happen if I tried it with the unhomogenized, organic, grass-fed, lightly pasteurized milk that I can get at my HFS, rather than the unpasteurized stuff, which I can't find a source for yet.
All the milk cure people say not to do it with pasteurized, and I get it, but really, is it completely not doable with high-quality pasteurized? Will my head explode? Will I die of malnutrition? Will my thyroid fall out of my neck?
Hmm, keep us apprised of how it goes for you. If you have great success, I might just try it with my pasteurized – but still healthy – milk.
rosenfeltc,
Your experience does count. 21 days is a long time and I doubt there is anything magical about 4 weeks as opposed to 3.
Also, I was thinking I might try it with goat's milk, since it would contain the A2 casein, since most cow's milk has mostly, or at least some, A1 casein in it. Even from the raw stuff from heritage breeds.
Hi Annabelle, Bernard McFadden recommend Milk curing to people, and seemed to think pasteurized was fine as long as you were getting some enzymes from somewhere. Collden, is doing a milk fast with pasteurized milk and he seems to be doing fine. LOL about your thyroid falling out of your neck.
I can get raw milk here, but it is less convenient and I still have my doubts about it. It's still possible to get sick from it and I'm not 100% on board with giving it to my kid, so it's just too tricky to have all these different kinds of milk in the house. I feel like if I had time to go out and meet a farmer, and see that he and his family were drinking the milk, I'd be OK with it. Otherwise, I'll stick to a product that is working for me, that I feel a bit safer with.
Chris, are you back to meat and potatoes? How is the thrush? How do you feel now as opposed to pre-milking, since you are eating normal food?
Just to add my thoughts, I made it through 8 days of the Milk Diet, stopped due to lactose intolerance symptoms (loose bowel movements) that did not decrease with time. I tried to lower the milk amount and see if my intolerance symptoms would stop, but no luck. I dropped 3lbs weight and about 0.2 off my basal. If I try the milk diet again in the future I will add a lactose digestive aid, but I didn't see any quick benefits, so I might just stick with RRARF'ing.
Its been a week back on HED/RRARF, and I am at 7 months following HED/RRARF. I find that my digestion took a hit with the liquid break offered by the milk diet, so jumping back into RRARF fulltime takes some easing into. First two days back on solids, I had severe heartburn, but that quickly went away.
Other issue I have is that my acne really surged after going back onto solids, not really sure if this is a healing type reaction, my digestion really got messed up or fixed up?…
Good luck to all those trying, keep the updates coming.
Often, acne has to do with hormones. It could be that the milk diet temporarily affected your hormones (which it sounds like it would, judging from its effect on one's endocrine system, in general).
I don't think that a healthy person will achieve miraculous things with the milk diet. I think milk has the ability to raise the metabolism since it contains a lot of minerals, good fat and a good aminoacids profile. Also, simple sugars are likely to give a damaged metabolism a fair boost.
But I would include milk(products) to a diet that is healthy anyway rather than drinking only milk.
I always drink milk and orange juice together right before I go to bed and often for breakfast. I guess my thyroid loves the combination of simple sugars and good milk protein for I feel really warm and energesized after such a meal.
Jannis,
Good point, I agree completely. I will often have just milk and occasionally some juice for breakfast, lunch and my snack, followed by a generous dinner. Including milk in a healthy diet is unbeatable in terms of price and convenience. One gallon of milk has twice the calories and more nutrients than a comparable amount of ground beef (I'm comparing Trader Joe's 1 gallon organic whole milk and 1 lb. grass fed ground beef, both $5.99). I've saved a ton of time and money by making milk the source of 50-75% of my daily calories, without any negative health implications.
Scott
I always drink milk and orange juice together right before I go to bed and often for breakfast.
Do you actually drink them like…together together (mixed into each other)?
I can only remember when I was a small kid I used to mix all kinda stuff together. Also mixed milk with orange juice and drank it. Worst…stuff…ever!
However, that whole milk/fruit thing does sound convenient. I may give it a try.
I have to say raw milk is the business! I was lactose intolerant for years until I listened to a show about the benefits of raw milk. I decided to try it and I have never had any lactose intolerance issues as a result. Even pasteurized, unhomogenized milk doesn't give me issues but I prefer raw milk because it has all of it's enzymes intact. Yay, I can drink milk again! Love butter too.
I can get raw milk here, but it is less convenient and I still have my doubts about it. It's still possible to get sick from it and I'm not 100% on board with giving it to my kid, so it's just too tricky to have all these different kinds of milk in the house.
I really don't know about that. Raw milk is kinda anti-biotic by its very nature. You know, good bacteria fending off bad bacteria. I really don't think it is more likely to get sick from raw milk than it is from pasteurized.
Scott,
that's another good thing about milk. It contains a lot of calories and minerals per $. Here in Germany good non-homogenized "demeter milk" (only from grass-fed cows) costs 90 cents per liter. I think that's a bit more than a dollar at present.
muhhh,
No, I dont drink "orange milk" ;) I drink the milk and the juice separately.
I still drink 1 quart raw milk per day with food, with no lactose intolerance symptoms. But at the milk diet 1.5 gallons per day I had issues. Plus with no solid foods to slow the emptying of the stomach, it can get uncomfortable if you have lactose problems.
So do you peeps usually consume your milk with food or seperate? I usually do the latter, but then again, I don't consume that much milk (yet) most of the time a big glass in the evening to wind down.
I really think that I will give scott's milk regimen a try. Just need to get a decent bottle to make it convenient to carry around a larger amount of milk.
"I really don't know about that. Raw milk is kinda anti-biotic by its very nature. You know, good bacteria fending off bad bacteria. I really don't think it is more likely to get sick from raw milk than it is from pasteurized."
Well maybe it's the degree to which people are sick. Lots and lots of people get mildly sick from pasteurized milk but a few people have gotten very, very sick from unpasteurized milk.
Riles,
Ya I'm back to my meat and potatoes staples of course with other foods thrown in here and there. Thrush is back to the levels were it was before I began the milk diet so at least it's better than what it was during the milk diet.
Digestion is slowly normalizing, first couple days it seemed like food just went right through me but now it seems like my body is slowly coping with solid foods although rice still seems to pose quite a challenge. So all that's left really is to give my body time and to begin working out again next monday cause I lost quite a bit of muscle on the milk diet.
"I really think that I will give scott's milk regimen a try. Just need to get a decent bottle to make it convenient to carry around a larger amount of milk."
I've been carrying around a quart size bottle and sipping from it all day. It's so ridiculously easy. I love not being all hungry on my drive home from work, which I used to have happen no many how many tanka bars I hid in my purse.
Hey Matt,
Do you mind posting the link to the study you talked about in reference to cortisol and low-carb/high-protein? I'd like to see how they define "low-carb." Do you think food quality has anything to do with the cortisol thing as irritating foods (per Paleo: wheat, legumes, dairy) cause inflammation?
I bought and read your most recent 180 Degree Metabolism. I really like how you are working towards tying everything together but it is hard sometimes to look past the arguments from some very studious people.
Currently I'm eating high protein, about 3 to 3.5 g/kg/LBM (1/2 of that being from whey shakes), probably about 100-150 grams of carbs, and no idea how much fat. I feel good with the extra protein and my food quality is good except that I eat too much o-6's through tortilla chips, which are a great transporter of sour cream in my opinion.
Overall, it would be great if you could write a comment/post about your view on some of the main components of the Paleo prescription that seem to be at odds with your views:
1. Carbs beyond veggies and some fruit is not ideal. If you eat starch, you should ideally be eating it to fuel tough workouts or else it will just spill over into triglycerides. (The paper on cortisol could be huge here.)
2. Dairy is not ideal outside of a mass gain scenario because of it's growth promoting properties, it's ability to spike insulin in particular.
There are many more but those are two at the head of the line for me. I would like to point to the Kitavins and just pin the blame on fructose, veggie oils, and refined flour, but sadly my head won't let me do that.
Thanks for anything that you can offer. I appreciate it. The Paleo crowd is doing a great job promoting real food but the no starch approach is something that I continue to think about.
-Mark
Happy No Diet Day ya'll.
http://www.eskimo.com/~largesse/INDD/origin.html
One thing I got from this blog is to not be so concerned about whether my food is organic or raw or whatever. As a result, when I am out I just buy whatever milk is available. I've been doing that for several months now without any noticeable consequences, so I don't think its necessary that if you want to drink milk during the day that you need to bring your own. Even crappy milk from a factory farm is still superior by a large magnitude to most food available in stores.
Scott
Hey Matt, havent had time to read all the comments so sorry if someone already said what I'm about to say:
Can you post official starting numbers for yourself including, but not limited to, weight, blood pressure, fasting glucose, etc etc, and continue to update us with them as the process continues? I know these figures only somewhat matter, but it would be good to have official records throughout the whole time.
And dude, get excited! You were totally spaced out the whole video!
Mark-
No posts coming on those topics anytime soon. But I am currently reading Staffan Lindeberg's new book right now, which is giving me plenty of food for thought on those topics. Once again, however, his book strongly reiterates that macronutrient ratios are less relevant than other factors, like overall nutritional quality of the diet and lack of refined carbohdyrates and seed oils as staples.
As for all the other milk diet comments, I've got plenty of posting to do over the next 4 weeks, so hold tight. I will, as always with any dietary experiment, be playing devil's advocate at first.
No glucose meter Droo. I will say, interestingly, that my body temperature has been running in the mid-97 range for the past couple of months. Then I ate a bunch of junk before, during, and after vacation over about a 3-week time frame, which had a dramatic impact on my starting numbers.
Basal temp: 97.0 (down .5 degrees in last 3 weeks)
Weight: 192 (up 5 pounds in last 3 weeks)
BP: 104/60
Resting pulse: low 50's
No glucose meter
Mark,
A life without whole grains and/or starch is pretty subpar in my opinion. Unless you have some really, really, really good meat.
I'm not gonna be a douche and update how my milk diet is going everyday, but I will let you guys know how things turn out. I'm trying to remedy a thyroid problem — some call it type two hypothyroidism — caused by excessive consumption of soymilk. I'm on my 15th straight day of eight quarts of whole raw milk. Puslating dull sores in my thyroid area but no big changes in my slow speech.
Although my 20th day on eight quarts of raw milk total. The first few days I consumed some food.
We'll all be curious to see what your results are Derek, and glad to have you.
8 quarts is an awful lot. I don't see much reason to exceed 6 myself. What do you think Michael?
One last thought.
Chris Rosenfelt,
Why did you think the milk diet wasn't working? Your acne flare up? That doesn't seem right. Some cultures, like Inuits/Eskimos and Mongolians, eat a hell of a lot of meat, and blood, all of which have hormones in it. Mongolians also consume dairy. Acne is pretty nonexistent traditionally, if not definitely nonexistent.
I wonder why some people say their temperatures increase within three days. I'll almost at three weeks on eight quarts of raw whole milk a day, and my temperature is 97.2 still.
Matt,
Michael told me 4-10 quarts a day, the more for more serious problems.
I never had a baseline body temperature before my soymilk adventure, or as I call it, a descent into a cesspool of watching QVC (a bad home shopping channel, for those who don't know, which I hope is everyone).
Matt,
Why do you think Europeans have the most male pattern baldness of any race/ethnic group? Would you blame it on dairy consumption or, rather, refined sugar and refined grains?
They also smoke a lot too, that could also contribute to the baldness. Smoking eats up B vitamins. I was starting to lose my hair before starting the raw milk fast. I am drinking about a half gallon to 3/4 gallon a day. Within one week of starting the fast my hair started to get considerably thicker. I was really surprised as I hadn’t even thought about my hair just thought I’d do it for my overall health. But I was amazed that it improved so much in such a short time. Everyone noticed that it looked fuller and shinier. Even my bald spot is growing hair now. Needless to say I’m hooked on raw milk.
Matt,
Have you tried the Organic Pastures CULTURED raw butter? It's a new product and I think it tastes a lot better than the original OP raw butter which is probably the one you are talking about in the video.
Really, one last thought here. Matt, you say your body temperature recently has been in the low 97s. Same as me. But why do I claim my speech is not the way it used to be while yours seems pretty solid per usual? Is it because my normal temperature is much higher than yours? These are rhetorical.
Thanks Charles. Haven't tried it. I'll take some home to Colorado with me per your recommendation though. Good to hear they've tried to do something about the original flavor though.
Derek-
Don't know about the baldness, but I could use a few extra hairs on top though. I know Michael has mentioned experiencing a little hair regrowth on the milk diet.
As for my temp, I hadn't taken a single reading below 97.3 all year long, and several in the 97.7-ish range. Only after eating tons of sugar, white flour, etc. over the past few weeks have I noticed a drop. I anticipate it coming up quite quickly to where it was before I went off the pre-milk diet deep end. Much of this had to do with being at a resort in the Domincan Republic that had little food other than refined stuff. I did eat some coconuts, but that's no match for french toast with syrup, pina coladas, and pizza.
@Elizabeth
Michael: LOL My husband is great and tends not to care much about my weight… plus he's way too smart to ever suggest I need to lose any. ;)
Very smart man indeed!
That said, I don't think he'd care if I lost a little weight either, nor would he care if I kept it on. I tend to carry the weight well and I look healthy. But I miss my skinny jeans, lol.
The reason I asked is that my ex-fiance, who is a die-hard WAPer, was always concerned with extra pounds. She always wanted to lose and I liked her at the higher weight.
She is quite attractive, not fat by any stretch of the imagination, and Sir Mix A Lot has nothing on me when it comes to taste in backsides ;-) I would point her out to you (yes she is around the web) but she would most likely kill me if I did.
Nonetheless we were about 20 pounds a part in terms of our preferences. She once mentioned that if we ever got married we would have to find a compromise since I absolutely loved her body at the higher end and she hated it although she enjoyed my gushing about it, LOL!
@Danyelle
Considering what Michael "Milk Man" Miles has said here, I'm thinking about starting up my milk diet again. But for how long? I need a goal, but isn't 4 weeks a little long considering I just did almost 2 weeks a short time ago? My husband is worried (for my sake) that I'll gain more fat and freak out. I don't think I will, but I also thought that last time and went up a pants size.
You might as well wait to June when the cows are fully back on pasture. Makes for a better tasting and more nutritious milk.
As for length, it is entirely up to you. If you aren't fighting some serious disease I would suggest no less than 10 days. As far as the weight gain I wouldn't worry about it. If there are no digestive (lactose or casein) or elimination issues then your body should eventually adjust and adapt.
By the way, I know people don't like to hear this, but enemas can be helpful in this regard on the Milk Diet.
@JT
How do you feel about this Michael?
See my earlier response to Elizabeth. :-)
@undertow
I find that my digestion took a hit with the liquid break offered by the milk diet, so jumping back into RRARF fulltime takes some easing into. First two days back on solids, I had severe heartburn, but that quickly went away.
I was going to mention this on your blog but I will mention it here as well, you have to be very careful how you break any fast, including the milk "fast". One commenter on your blog said he broke the milk "fast" with a Papa John's pizza "re-feed" (you shouldn't be re-feeding in the strict sense of that term coming off the Milk Diet) which is not a good idea.
Other issue I have is that my acne really surged after going back onto solids, not really sure if this is a healing type reaction, my digestion really got messed up or fixed up?…
Everyone is different but generally speaking you need to ease back into it to avoid these kind of issues.
@Jannis
But I would include milk(products) to a diet that is healthy anyway rather than drinking only milk.
Sure, but the Milk Diet is simply a temporary approach, not a permanent diet.
@Jenny
Well maybe it's the degree to which people are sick. Lots and lots of people get mildly sick from pasteurized milk but a few people have gotten very, very sick from unpasteurized milk.
There are a few people who have gotten very very sick from pasteurized milk. It generally is not reported and sensationalized by the media because of course since it is pasteurized it's safe.
@rosenfeltc
Thrush is back to the levels were it was before I began the milk diet so at least it's better than what it was during the milk diet.
If you actually had thrush before the Milk Diet, then it would not be unusual for the symptoms to be worse during the diet.
Also you mentioned you lost lean body mass during the diet. How do you know? Did you take before and after measurements?
@Mark
The Paleo crowd is doing a great job promoting real food but the no starch approach is something that I continue to think about.
There is no consistent hegemony on this point among the paleo crowd. There are many paleos who regularly consume starchy tubers and dairy.
@Swede
Even crappy milk from a factory farm is still superior by a large magnitude to most food available in stores.
Doesn't work for me. Mucous and phlegm in no time when I partake regularly, even with high quality pasteurized milk. I give myself about a month before this begins to happen.
@Matt
8 quarts is an awful lot. I don't see much reason to exceed 6 myself. What do you think Michael?
IIRC, I mentioned to Derek that 4-10 quarts is what you would glean from the various protocols when he first mentioned 12-15 quarts (yikes!).
Somewhere in that deluge of comments :-) I recall writing that I thought 6 quarts would be a good place to start and increase from there if necessary.
Hey Matt,
Do you have the link to the study on cortisol that Russ sent you?
Diet-hormone interactions: protein/carbohydrate ratio alters reciprocally the plasma levels of testosterone and cortisol and their respective binding globulins in man.
Anderson KE, Rosner W, Khan MS, New MI, Pang SY, Wissel PS, Kappas A.
Abstract
The aim of this study was to determine if a change in protein/carbohydrate ratio influences plasma steroid hormone concentrations. There is little information about the effects of specific dietary components on steroid hormone metabolism in humans. Testosterone concentrations in seven normal men were consistently higher after ten days on a high carbohydrate diet (468 +/- 34 ng/dl, mean +/- S.E.) than during a high protein diet (371 +/- 23 ng/dl, p less than 0.05) and were accompanied by parallel changes in sex hormone binding globulin (32.5 +/- 2.8 nmol/l vs. 23.4 +/- 1.6 nmol/l respectively, p less than 0.01). By contrast, cortisol concentrations were consistently lower during the high carbohydrate diet than during the high protein diet (7.74 +/- 0.71 micrograms/dl vs. 10.6 +/- 0.4 micrograms/dl respectively, p less than 0.05), and there were parallel changes in corticosteroid binding globulin concentrations (635 +/- 60 nmol/l vs. 754 +/- 31 nmol/l respectively, p less than 0.05). The diets were equal in total calories and fat. These consistent and reciprocal changes suggest that the ratio of protein to carbohydrate in the human diet is an important regulatory factor for steroid hormone plasma levels and for liver-derived hormone binding proteins.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/sites/entrez
What do you recommend for AUTOIMMUNE diasease thyroidism?
I tend to treat all autoimmune diseases the same – as they are all dysfunctions of the immune system. The fundamentals are similar.
I just finish writing a post on some of the relevant factors that led to my girlfriend developing an autoimmune disease and then totally overcoming it.
The fact that Loren Cordain, the prominent Paleo supporter, came out with The Paleo Diet for Athletes speaks volumes. It may or may not be for athletes. It just admits that starch is cool after all. Which defeats the Paleo argument. But he doesn't want you to think that.
Robb Wolf, also a Paleo guy, seems like a good-hearted, cool guy. But a bit misinformed. Plus, his website has a million things on it. People who run websites, here's a tip. Less is more! You don't have to come out with a post everyday or every week. Seriously. =) Just think. In five years, there'll be so much information that it'll be exponentially harder to make sense of things.
And no Paleo person has ever been able to answer why people started eating foods, namely dairy and grains, that they never ate before, or rarely ate.
Although I'm posting a lot here, I hope I haven't become the douche who talks about what he had for breakfast and what movie he's going to.
Matt,
You could use more hair on top of your head? I thought Matt Stone was immune to any metabolic problems, like thinning hair?
Michael,
Not sure if I asked you this on your site. Is milk identical to blood? Obviously blood is the highway by which hormones travel. And milk has hormones. If blood is the same as milk, I can probably say with 100% certainty that milk won't cause thinning hair, as Eskimos/Inuits drink blood like there's no tomorrow. Although why have I heard they're relatively short…
Matt and all the others doing the milk diet,
Are you skimming the milk? Didn't the milk diet guys say that the milk should be skimmed?
D-man,
I started losing hair at age 27 following starving myself and then doing a bunch of "cleanses" and eating mostly raw nuts, fruits, and vegetables. The hair loss has more or less stabilized since then.
April-
Milk diet authors weren't explicit about skimming the milk, but felt that lower-fat milk was typically better tolerated, and skimming sometimes helpful. The milk I'm drinking is not too fatty, but no, I'm not skimming it.
DerekChaunessey –
I'm pretty sure I've read one of the Eades (or maybe Melissa, idk) posit that the opioid components were a likely reason grains & dairy became such a dietary darling so quickly.
Grains & ghee store better than most fresh paleo foods, creating a surplus, so the fear of famine was softened. Dairy fat is crazy nutrient and calorie dense, & more sustainable & realistic (in the context of a civilization) than a constant supply of offal.
All mammals are built to easily recognize the advantages of dairy – a food that is meant to be eaten unlike anything else. No mammal will turn down a bowl of fresh milk.
True dat on mammals, like dogs, liking milk. Proof is in the pudding.
Have we established that dairy does not cause male pattern baldness? I just found out today I guy I've been working with is from Mongolia, but have yet to rail him about their traditional diet including dairy. Thought he was from Thailand or Malaysia. But he has a full head of hair and is probably 33 years old or so.
There is an interesting section of Bernarr MacFadden's book where he talks about poor dietary habits/drugs causing hormonal imbalances and decreased circulation, and even when the diet is remedied or drugs are stopped, things remain imbalanced for potentially a long (how long is open to interpretation) period of time afterward. I've been off soy since mid-October and I still feel just a bit more despair with every passing day. But MacFadden says the milk diet works wonders, so we'll see.
Maybe Bernarr MacFadden's book about hair would make for a good read. It's called "Hair Culture."
http://www.bernarrmacfadden.com/books.html
MacFadden says poor circulation is the cause of hair loss, and I think he has a good point. It ties together, from what I know, to body temperature. That said, he advocates hair pulling to stimulate roots, which sounds bizarre. I don't see Asians or Inuits pulling their hair consciously, and they all have traditionally no male pattern baldness. =)
It's stuff like that that I feel may border on pseudoscience that makes me question anything the author says from hereon. Rightly or wrongly.
Back to raw milk, I'm drinking two gallons of this stuff a day, much more than normal people consume, and I don't notice a marked difference. But Rome wasn't built in a day. I wonder if the HED would work better, the same, or worse.
Matt,
Since this is 180degreehealth, maybe you should talk about 180 degree views on toothpaste and shampoo, and whether conventional, alternative, or other/really alternative/none at all are best?
And at some point in the future, if facial tics are caused by, for example, demyelination, lack of saturated fat, polyunsaturated fat, mercury, other. Personally, I've had facial tics, namely forehead scrunching and/or hard eye blinking, since I was 18, almost 19. Maybe the milk diet or the HED at some point will remedy this.
Matt,
I am on the brink of purchasing 180Degree Health ebooks after reading books by many of the authors mentioned in your blog.
I have two questions:
1) Roesdale (Ron) says a low body temp is a sign of longevity…is this true, since your goal is to increase body temp?
2) As a type 1 diabetic, low carb (a la Richard Bernstein's plan) seems to keep my bs perfect, all the time. I also have Hashimoto's. So..what is a girl to do? Eat low carb (restrictive, no fruit, no potatoes or real carbs)at the risk of further lowering my body temp but guaranteeing perfect sugars or modify somehow?
If you could offer any advice it would be appreciated…or anyone else for that matter w/a similar quesiton.
Love the blog!
Thanks
I realize this is a milk post..I was just looking at your most recent videos from the last time, so I apologize if this is not the most appropriate place to comment about my previous Q's…
@Kasia:
Don't worry, nobody here really cares if something is off-topic or not. This is the internet.
Kasia-
Those are complications that are difficult to tiptoe around. As far as (w)RON(g) Rosedale, his comment that low-carb reduced body temperature reliably was one thing that started to push me away from low-carb and seek out better alternatives. No one seems to care about body temp, so I haven't seen data on very healthy populations like the Kitavans and body temp, but I do know that they have extremely low blood glucose levels (fasting averages around 65 at all ages) and eat an extremely high carbohdyrate diet.
But type 1 diabetes is another story altogether. I do think that omgega 6 restriction may have some role in preventing autoimmunity, but that remains to be seen. Still theoretical.
Derek wrote:
"Since this is 180degreehealth, maybe you should talk about 180 degree views on toothpaste and shampoo, and whether conventional, alternative, or other/really alternative/none at all are best?"
We've talked quite a bit about toothpaste in the various comments sections. The consensus seems to favor "flouride free" touthpastes made from salts. Some make their own, others buy pre-made mixtures. We had a discussion about oil pulling a while back which helps with whiteness and gum pain. My own path has been to go from someone who brushed and flossed obsessively to brushing a couple times a week and flossing when ever I get something stuck in my teeth that bothersome. My gum health has improved hugely doing this and of course by improving my diet and sleep habits.
Shampoo we haven't talked about as much, but I've also struggled to get rid of my prescription dandruff shampoo. I managed to go to over the counter product a couple times a week and then to once a week. This last month I decided to just switch to regular shampoo (I use the mildest product, I can find, Aveda's shampure), I've had good luck. I'm treating the flareups on my face with coconut oil and so far my scalp has been clean. I don't know whether it's the milk I've been drinking lately or what, but knock wood, I hoped I pwnd something that has been a problem my whole life.
What do you think of Lyle McDonald's advice on losing weight? Is he misinformed?
McDonald seems to be only partially misinformed, as he thinks that weight cannot be lost without conscious effort to cut calories, which clearly isn't true. Yes, you must do that to get lean enough to be a successful bodybuilder, but regulating a healthy weight does not require doing such a thing, and in clinical study calorie restriction-induced weight loss yields massive rebound weight gain and is an impermanent solution.
But I'll be reading Lyle's books specifically this June, and will be better able to discuss his ideas in the future. But I think I've gotten the gist from what I've read of his work thus far.
I think raw milk diet will help to reduce weight and to keep body fit as in the 180 degree as in the picture given.
It was pretty obvious after 27 days of it that my body fat increased and muscle mass decreased.
Hi. My name is Alan. I have a friend named Noah who is on a 100% raw milk diet. He has been on this diet for almost 8 years now and is physically very healthy. Noah is a fifteen year old boy with autism. He is non-verbal but healthy and active.
Hi Anonimous.
You mention that Noah has been on the raw milk diet for 8 years.I have read about people drinking just raw milk for many years, but was wondering if they have to keep drinking a small amount about every half hour or so (as I am now), or whether they can drink much more than that at a time, but less often. (To get the correct amount per day). To be on this diet for a few weeks drinking every half hour or so is just about workable, but to carry on for years would seem to me to be impractical. I was wondering if you, or anyone, might know how the answere to this please.
Hi again Anonymous-apologies for spellin’ error! and also for not mentioning your name Alan!
I did the raw milk diet for 3 weeks and lost 15 pounds. I drank about a quart a day of raw goats milk with lots of water and also drank some good kombucha. I have to say it worked for me. I felt great, looked leaner and slept better than I had in years. My energy level was up and my skin looks so clear. My eyesight improved as well and my eyes seem brighter and whiter. I am 5’6″ and small boned so I adjusted the amount according to my appetite and body size. After a couple of days I felt that a gallon was way too much so I reduced it to where I felt satisfied and not hungry but not really full. I had days when I wasn’t hungry at all in the morning so I would just have a lot of water and some kombucha. Other days I drank more milk than usual. Like anything you may need to adjust the amounts according to your body type, weight, appetite, activity, etc to make it really work for you. Also I included some fermented yoghurt and kefir and cultured butter which helped a lot with the weight loss in cutting back on the carbs. Oh I also drank a 16 oz. green juice about twice a week. It worked is all I can say. I look forward to doing the fast again.
Hi. I found your comments really interesting. It’s so hard to know just how much raw milk to drink, (I have access to organic raw cows milk from my next-door neighbour), and whether or not one should eat anything else. I was wondering whether fruit in the morning would be ok, as I find that milk alone can cause constipation, (and I don’t fancy enemas!), although I do take about 6 gms vitamin C a day which helps. Your drinking 16oz green juice seems a good idea, so I will try that. You appear to have worked things out well for yourself, not too rigid, but sticking to the principle of the diet. I have been making curds and whey, but will also try the kombucha and lots of water. Thanks for your helpful comments which for me were most useful. I’m sure this is going to help me continue with the diet!
I think she just starved herself, lost some weight, and felt a temporary high from it all – claiming that it “works.” I would find her comment uninteresting pretty quickly if I were you.
Thank you for your comments Mike. Having just started on a raw milk diet, mainly to support my husband who has a bit of a bowel problem. (He didn’t want to persue what the doc suggested for now, couldn’t bear the thought!). I uderstand that the raw milk diet helps in eliminating pathogens in the system, and provides help in building up the body’s natural defences. We are hoping that this regime works so that hubby doesn’t have to follow doc’s advice. He will, of course, if it doesn’t work in a reasonable amount of time. After just two days, the problem appears to be improving, so we hope it’s worth sticking too for a while.
If you have any problems, let me know. Sometimes the addition of citrus fruit or cutting the fat content of the milk back can be helpful. As can bringing all the milk to a boil and simmering for a few minutes to increase the digestibility.
Ah, citrus fruit. I have always eaten citrus (and other fruits) first thing in the morning on an empty stomach, and found that eating oranges in particular is very good for constipaton. I wasn’t sure if that would be ok on the raw milk diet, but we’ll definitely try it. I will let you know how things are progressing. Thanks again.
Yes, the acidity of citrus is very good at offsetting the alkalizing and constipating effect of the milk. But in hindsight I would say not to eat/drink a set amount of milk and oranges, but to only take in as much as is required to stay hydrated. You don’t want to be urinating clear every 20 minutes or anything like that. You want to still have some light yellow color to your urine and avoid overhydration, which can happen quite easily eating exclusively these high-water content foods. So what I”m saying is that, if you focus on your urine, you will probably be able to find how much you need to eat and drink per half hour. It will probably just be a few ounces, not the full 8. You will also notice that you can take in more fluids in the afternoon and evening than in the morning without urinating frequently. That is the typical daily human rhythm.
Matt. Thanks again for your reply re eating oranges as well as raw milk. Hubby and I have actually found that it’s best not to eat the oranges on this diet. (We have been on raw milk diet for about 12 days now). Normally, fruits agree with us, but not so much now. Instead we have been taking pure vit C powder (in capsules) daily, about 10 gms for me and much less for my husband. Still have to work out the best amount for him. I must say that his bowel problem is still improving. Still early days, but it’s so much better, which is quite a relief for him. Also, your mention of checking urine colour also very helpful as I wasn’t aware that I could actually be taking in too much liquid, and not sure whether I would know whether I was or not, so thanks for that too. All in all, it appears to be working. I’m determined to keep it up (if I can!). So far, so good. Will update again.
A short update. I am new to this site and have only just watched the video where you say you have been on the raw milk diet for 15 days(?). You point out that you had only been drinking milk and that it appears to be doing positive things for your health. Your observations are helpful, as I was contemplating eating others things as the same time. Now I see why is perhaps isn’t such a good idea. And the fact that you mentioned that your constipation cleared up after a week or so has given me and my husband the motivation to keep on going with it. That was one of the things that had been worrying me as I didn’t like the thought that we’d be constantly constipated! So thanks for all the info.
Hi Matt. The update. I managed to complete the month, along with my husband, on the raw milk diet, which wasn’t so difficult as I thought it may have been. I felt so much better, physically, mentally, emotionally, well worth the effort. I did actually enjoy just drinking milk though. I still had problems with constipation, and read somewhere that a lady who had similar problems, found that taking Enzymes helped. She thought that her problem may have been a difficulty with digesting fats. Although I am no longer consuming only raw milk, I still drink it in the mornings and also throughout the day, along with ‘normal’ lunch and evening meals. Well…and this is the point of my update…I decided to try enzymes a few days ago, taking one with my morning milk, one at luchtime and one with the evening meal. (I have for years been suffering with constipation and although high doses of vit C helped, it didn’t appear to be the complete answer). The enzymes did the trick! Obviously something that had been lacking. I now have normal bowel movements for the first time in years! Yep, that’s exciting! I will now get my husband to take them, although he has a different problem with pretty bad diarrhea, as I may have mentioned before. The raw milk diet helped tremendously, but now he is back on a normal diet again, he has slipped back a little with that problem although not as bad as before. Maybe the enzymes will help him too. I will let you know. Thanks again for providing such an interesting and helpful site!
I meant to say ‘digestive’ enzymes.
Hi folks. I did the raw milk for five weeks based on the work of Dr J Crewe from the 1920’s.
He mentioned it for prostate health. Decreased the volume of my prostate by one third, at least.
Very happy with the results and will be doing it again in November. Also found to have very fine bowel movements ever since. Did put on some weight though. Drank about 2 – 3 quarts a day.
yes, I’ve been living almost entirely on skim milk, plus a little pure cream here and there, for five years. Every day I drink about two gallons of organic skim milk, plus occasionally the aforementioned cream, and hardly eat or drink anything else. For me it has been great, among other things I maintain very easily at the middle of normal for me on the BMI (165 pounds at six feet, two inches.) I feel great, much better than on a solid food diet. I would say that solid food will give you more bodily pain, because even though you chew it and digest it, it is never as broken up as milk and thus clogs and irritates your cells as it moves around your body. For this reason, I think this diet would help with any disease, including the biggies like cancer, and am trying to get the medical establishment interested in testing it.