Haven’t had my mind blown like this in a while, but Dr. Garrett Smith delivered the goods on this simply remarkable episode of the 180DegreeHealth podcast. Many people are making?a big mistake by supplementing with vitamin D, not just if, but ESPECIALLY if blood levels of vitamin D are low. Dr. Smith explains why, and talks about the many downsides of trying to force blood levels of vitamin D up. You MUST listen to today’s awesome episode of the 180D podcast.
Listen HERE.
Cool talk- thanks guys.
Interesting parallel I noticed when Dr G was discussing how some people can be both showing signs of too little calcium and too much calcium:
You could describe overweight hypometabolic people the same way. Their bodies both have signs of surplus calories (excess adipose tissue), and insufficient calories (low basal body temperature, extreme hunger, aversion to movement, etc.)
With that parallel, I think overweight people have signs of both high and low metabolism, typically with a low body temperature yet having a high resting pulse, higher respiratory rate, and higher blood pressure.
I don’t know about the extreme hunger part. In some cases, sure, but I don’t see that very consistently.
Rob can you elaborate on that? You described me, especially the “extreme hunger.” Not many people talk about this. How to treat this?
Hey Samantha,
As Matt fairly points out, not everyone experiences that. But here are two links from Gwyn Olwyn of YourEatopia on the subject. It may be more common upon re-feeding and in eating disorder recovery.
http://www.youreatopia.com/blog/2012/5/22/extreme-hunger-what-is-it.html
http://www.youreatopia.com/blog/2013/4/9/extreme-hunger-profoundly-disturbing.html
Hope that’s helpful
It’s back! http://awesomelyluvvie.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/03/YYASSSSSSSSSSSS.gif
Love the new look!
:( wish I could get the information with out paying to be a part of 180Radio
I wish it didn’t cost thousands of dollars a month to create and operate several high-volume websites, mailing lists, pay assistants, my developer, etc. etc. As I’m sure you know, I give away as much free information as possible, including all of my books. But I have chosen to charge a small fee for 180 Radio instead of rely on advertising (which I hate) to offset the costs as is typical for podcasts. Please respect that decision.
Decision respected. Ads eat ass. They completely ruin the pace of any show they interrupt.
But then again, you should just do stuff for free for us. Not only free, you should fork over your money to provide us with free stuff. But, I hate socialism.
i think the first month is still free? plus the monthly rate is only 3 bucks or so – seems like very little for what you get.
It would be nice to see more of a debate format on these type of issues. Dr. Garret advances his theories but there isn’t another authority to challenge him. I don’t have a strong enough background in this to raise issues or confirm what he states, however, it would be helpful if there were someone else with such a background to challenge him.
That’s a problem with most Health websites. An authority comes on and can say anything and never be challenged, unless one of the readers happens to be informed enough to do so. The “authorities” on this website get off too easily, and it would be much better if Matt, instead of just praising how “badass” there informaton is, would instead challenge them more vigorously or have someone else do it. I’m not talking about creating a hostile interview…just an intellectually challenging one.
For my part, Vitamin D has definitely helped fight off colds. I’ve been hearing for years how this or that diet, this or that supplement will prevent colds. Well, Vitamin D really works in that regard. I understand that more may be going on with that than I realize and that the detriments may outweigh the benefits. On the other hand, Vitamin K gives me heart palpitations. I am not the only one on whom it has this effect. Why is that?
That’s interesting about the K. I too seemed to have felt a very slight fluttery feeling on occasion since I started taking it about 10 days ago, which is strange. It hasn’t been enough to really get my attention, but now that you mention it…
I’m not in a position to challenge Dr. G’s assertions either. He is also new to this and basically just sharing some of his initial observations and thoughts as he monitors patients and researches the topic. I’m certainly supportive of him going down this rabbit hole and sharing his thoughts along the way. I think he would be the first to admit that he’s not an authority on this subject by any means, but is a curious investigator making some interesting observations as he explores, which is and always has been the nature of 180DegreeHealth.
As far as debating is concerned, I’m a terrible debater on the fly. I have to think and process information for a long time before I have the ability to weigh and measure certain points with what I feel is and isn’t accurate. But I do enlist tremendous trust in Garrett. We’ve been through a lot together over the last several years and have both matured quite a bit in the process.
Anyway, hey Thomas! Keep the skepticism coming. Always love your contributions.
Havent heard the podcast so I don’t know if it is covered in that. But Vitamin d causes magnesium deficiency which can lead to heart palpitations. I have been taking the vitamin K2 for a while without any side effects. But maybe it also has an effect on magnesium. Glad you are talking about the possible danger of taking too much Vitamin d and Calcium supplementation because right now Drs. are going crazy with recommending such high amounts.
Matt,
Dr. Garret might not consider himself an authority, but when he appears in a recording most people will consider him as such. Stating that Vitamin D leads to calcification of the arteries is pretty serious. I’d like to know more about that and the evidence for and against it. I know I can do my own research, but it’s sometimes good to see statement, rebuttal, and answer in one place. Just a thought. I am most interested, because Vitamin D is one of the rare supplements that I have found to be clearly beneficial for myself. Of course, it could be doing some damage that is not immediately evident. Definitely if it is calcifying my arteries, I would stop it, despite the other benefits.
Thanks for putting the blog back up!
Thomas, have you checked out Smith’s facebook page? I guarantee you he considers himself ‘the’ authority. He’s developed his own interpretation of hair mineral analysis (of all things), yet as Matt says, he’s new to all of this.
Thomas, this is an old article now but I hope you continued taking vitamin D. I followed Dr. Smith’s protocol for 18 months and my health tanked. I am back on vitamin D now, and eggshell calcium.
Wow Thomas Seay. I take the D3 with K2. I wonder if that’s what is causing my palpitations. It’s a good vit to take with the D. D3 helped my aches and pains go away.
Suzanna, I would be willing to bet that it is causing the palpitations. Do a google on Vitamin K and palpitations and you will discover a number of people have had the same issue. Apparently there are some forms of the Vitamin K that don’t cause the problem. In any case, try taking the Vitamin D3 without Vitamin K for a few days and see if the palpitations stop. Then you can reassess.
I’m going to comment even though I haven’t listened to the podcast yet. I’m not in a a position to do so right now, though I am very interested and definitely will. But I have to say that two years ago I thought life as a vibrant, beautiful, healthy thirty three year old was over. And then I discovered vitamin D3. My acne went away, my itchy skin and cracking heals cleared up, the rash under my left eye went away, I stopped having cold sore breakouts and in general wasn’t getting as many colds. It felt like a miracle supplement to me. Still does. My body doesn’t seen to function well without it.
Sure. I think the problem is when people get blindsided to something being “good” or something being “bad.” I encourage everyone more and more to be open to free experimentation while reading basic functionality and biofeedback to try to determine whether substance A or intervention B or diet C is helpful or unhelpful.
Garrett’s basic premise is that D can be good in some contexts and bad in others, and that people should exercise more caution before supplementing with pretty much anything–the worshipped vitamin D3 included.
I have been using both k2 and D3 for about a year and I haven’t noticed noticeable effects from either. Other supplements give me acne -iodine and others cause insomnia – calcium and others. I rarely kind find others who have the same reactions. Our genetics, food intake, sun exposure, age/hormone levels, are all so different for each person I suppose it is difficult to know what is going on when we take supplements without extensive testing.
meant “can find” not “kind find”
I enjoyed the interview, but I am wondering if tanning beds would be more appropriate for those of us living in northern climates instead of supplementing with D? Also, I’d love to hear more on red light therapy maybe in future podcasts & how to use it!
HI, the podcast was timely for me. I have been taking vitamin D for 10 years. My health has been declining with me crashing about a year and a half ago. I have pushed vitamin D based on lab tests but my level was not getting better. I was once told by a researcher that vitamin D is the gas pedal and vitamin A the breaks. Since my whole body seems to be out of sink, I have noticed that vitamin d is very stimulating to me. It pushes my metabolism. In the last year, I have seen my vitamin D not get higher (while on 5000), my hair calcium get higher, my thyroid labs get lower while on the same thyroid meds. This is a disaster. I have seen the D push thyroid down and then sex hormones go down too. This has not been good for me. But, I have not gotten sick in 10 years. My metabolism is trashed but I am not sick. What good is that. I went off vitamin D immediately and I could feel my system settle down. I am not artificially stimulated. I also quit calcium. I can’t wait to see my metabolism come back with just eating more of everything.
I took vitamin D drops earlier this year and had a fairly scary experience. I took a high dose (50,000 iu) after stumbling upon a Kindle book claiming to “miraculous effects of high doses of d3”. Also, there are experts on You Tube saying more or less the same thing….The dose did give a lot of energy but also caused horrible diarrhea that continued for 24 hours and a migraine so bad I had to lay in bed for most of the next day with the lights turned off.
I’ve tried lower doses (1,000-4,0000 iu) but just don’t tolerate it. I personally can’t imagine ever taking vitamin D supplements ever again in any amount; they seem quite dangerous.
Same thing happened with my ex. We started calling it Vitamin Diarrhea.
Well, look at the wonderful ebook published by a guy who went on a year-long, massive Vitamin D3 megadose and has nothing but praise for the vitamin as it seemed to help him with everything.
http://www.amazon.com/Miraculous-Results-Extremely-Sunshine-Experiment/dp/1491243821/ref=pd_sim_b_1?ie=UTF8&refRID=0CJXCY5JC76HJQ0NE7Z0
I read the book. This guy took also massive amounts of k2, magnesium as well as a number of other sups. He found that old traumas to the skeleton healed and attributed it to vit d. Could be the k2, or whatnot. He postulates that vit d is a kind of switch, putting the body in winter (survival) mode when low. Tried it, did not work for me.
Vitamin D has been a big help to me too. I did take large amounts
for a few months. Now, I sporadically take 10,000IU’s once or twice a month.
I haven’t noticed any negative side effects. I started sleeping much better.
I feel consistent in my energy levels and, moods. Too, I haven’t had
any sickness since taking the large doses.
Now this. =/
If vitamin D helps you, keep taking it!
There is a vitamin D miracle book on Amazon that’s pretty compelling. Low D levels are associated with hibernation, sluggishness and weight gain. No thanks Dr. Smith!
I have Graves Disease and had high thyroid hormone levels. I noticed that when I took either anti-thyroid drugs, or Lugol’s solution to lower my levels, my vitamin D blood level went way down. Since Vit D is actually a hormone, I figure there might be some connection? I try to use sunshine in the summer (Boston) to increase my levels.
What do you think about ConsumerLabs assessment of vitamin D? They say that blood levels over 35 can be dangerous.
An eye-opener. Just today I came upon a lecture of Thomas Levy, who covered very much the same topic, blaming intracellular calcium as the primary source of overall degenerative disease. He stressed the importance of megadosing vitamin c as a means of reversing this process, also mentioned getting rid of hidden infections, balancing sex hormones, thyoid and vitamin d to the ‘just right’ mark. And magnesium.
Following i.a. Linus Pauling, he believes that we never can get optimal doses vitamin c from food sources. As I understand, Pauling based his argument on 2 main points. First, that somewhere during the Cretaceous the ancestral primate lost its ability to synthesize ascorbic acid, second that contemporary primate relatives consume way more vitamin c in their diet than humans. What is your position about vitamin c?
Large doses of vitamin C seem relatively harmless and potentially helpful. I don’t personally supplement with it, but I eat up to several pounds of fresh fruit daily with 1-2 quarts of orange juice.
Wow!
I tried Vitamin D several times and in various forms (drops, capsules). The doctors said “Your Vit D is low and you must take it!”. But always the same problems. I got strong gastrointestinal problems of it. My stomach swelled up like a ballon, I got bloating and my energy was getting worse.
Chris Masterjohn has a theory that you need to take vitamin A with Vitamin D. I believe the ratio of 12 IU Vitamin A to 1 IU vitamin D. His theory is Vitamin A improves the digestive tract which increases mineral absorption. I believe Vitamin D puts phosphoros and magnesium to work. Chris Masterjohn’s article is in the Weston A Price blog.
a
I know this is an old article…. but I just had to say that going off vitamin d for two years had a horrendous effect on my health. I developed serious health issues; macular degeneration, mild hypothyroidism became much worse,etc. I’m making my way back from that bad decision,have been on 5K vitamin d along with K2 and A, and am feeling better.
I think PubMed articles in general should not be the basis for health advice. There are some 50,000 studies showing that D supplements are beneficial, compared to perhaps a similar number supposedly proving D is harmful. Please do your own research last you end battling worse issues after going off D.
Be careful with that vitamin A!